1 INFO-VAX	Sun, 14 Jul 2002	Volume 2002 : Issue 385       Contents: Re: 2 CMS questions  Re: Doing the Math on Alpha  DS10 shutting down Re: HP Itanium2 benchmarks Re: HP Itanium2 benchmarks& Re: List the processes using a mailbox Re: McKinley Cometh...+ Re: McKinley tops SpecFP AND SpecInt charts  Re: MO disks on VMS?, OpenVMS Alpha 7.3-1 vs. the next VAX releaseA Re: OpenVMS on third-party platforms (was: Re: VMS port delayed!) A Re: OpenVMS on third-party platforms (was: Re: VMS port delayed!) A Re: OpenVMS on third-party platforms (was: Re: VMS port delayed!) A Re: OpenVMS on third-party platforms (was: Re: VMS port delayed!)  Re: Oracle RDB on VMS 5 Re: PW600au problem (probably h/w) - long and tedious  Re: un-INITing a tape? Re: un-INITing a tape? Re: un-INITing a tape? Re: un-INITing a tape? Re: un-INITing a tape? Re: Where to put startup stuff( Re: Who said Carly doesn't like OpenVMS?( Re: Who said Carly doesn't like OpenVMS?( Re: Who said Carly doesn't like OpenVMS?  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 14 Jul 2002 09:23:23 GMT 0 From: "Het Kritische Oog" <e.vandyken@chello.nl> Subject: Re: 2 CMS questions/ Message-ID: <fqbY8.753640$yP6.22816596@Flipper>   0 "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> schreef in bericht3 news:CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIAEMCFFAA.tom@kednos.com... J > Never quite have understood classes and the syntax used to specify them. > J > an element may belong to classes (including the null class).  Now if you > modifyE > an elemnt by the usual RESERVE, REPLACE it won't be replaced in the  classes L > where it appears.  There you must explicitly REMOVE and INSERT the element > using I > the correct generation and classes.  This all seems very error prone to  me.  > H > Is there no way to determine all occurences of an element (and current
 > generation) K > in the various classes and to do a global replcement?  (Assume you do not  > know > how many classes there are)  > J > I may have made an error, but it seems the order of the CMS libraries is > importast.I > In my case I have two libraries, and when I issue CMS SHOW LIB it lists  the  > libraries,L > as say A and B in that order.  Now if I try to FETCH or RESERVE an element
 > which is in L > B it responds element not found, but if I issue CMS SET LIB B then life is > good.  > F > Finally, it appears that the /GEN qualifier is overloaded, sometimes meaning 
 > class, this  > is most unfotunate.  > C > Is there any other interface to the CMS libs that provides a nore  > consistent, orthogonal0 > and simpler syntax, preferrably through emacs? >  > TIA  > Tom  > --- ( > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.< > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).B > Version: 6.0.372 / Virus Database: 207 - Release Date: 6/20/2002 > H Consider a class as a release (version) of your software! You work for aG very bad company when every developer is allowed to make changes in the G release (what did we sent to the client?). Generally modifications in a J class are only allowed when you fix a bug for a version. Add only define aJ class when is make sense to put the elements in a class; you must can tellH the users of the CMS library what the meaning of a class is. And not all< elements need to be in a class. (Here groups are convenient)J Sometimes a bug is not fixed for every version. That's why you should knowC what you are doing and you need to edit separately the files in the G different classes (and don't forget to change the current version too).  <TIP>:J Put version identification in readable files which go to clients. When youH make a fix also change de IDENTIFICATION in the OPT file for the linker;; this file should also be in CMS. And write a releasenote!).  <ENDTIP>G You should become aware of which source you are working on. So it makes H sense to define one CMS library in which you work. Suppose an element isI defined in more libraries and you set CMS to more libraries. Which one do L you want te reserve? When you want an overview you can define more libraries to glance through.   P.S.L Do you use groups in CMS?. Then it is very easy to fetch coherent code for a library, executable or manual).    Evert.   ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 14 Jul 2002 15:17:37 GMT # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> $ Subject: Re: Doing the Math on AlphaI Message-ID: <lCgY8.56661$WJf1.13401@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>   7 "Rick Kelly" <rmk@roothog.rmkhome.com> wrote in message / news:3d30cae4$0$53629$75868355@news.frii.net... + > Nick Maclaren <nmm1@cus.cam.ac.uk> wrote:  > G > > There is also very good evidence that the fact that the Alpha sales D > > figures were poor was not because there was a lack of customers.D > > I don't know how many customers were begging to buy, but many ofB > > them were wanting to buy in units of dozens, hundreds or more. > * > Indeed. Look at: http://www.microway.com > 2 > They sell Alpha systems based on Samsung boards. >   D Correct me if I'm wrong...I seem to recollect that API is now out ofF business, and aren't they the manufacturer of the 'Samsung' boards you- mentioned? Or is Samsung still manufacturing?    ------------------------------   Date: 14 Jul 02 08:25:45 +0200) From: p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture)  Subject: DS10 shutting down ) Message-ID: <+0faB2Y4tRmN@elias.decus.ch>    Keven Handy wrote:    A >Ok, the system powered down and I had them read off the settings > >from a 'show power' command shortly after the crash. This was> >read to me over the phone, so it should have looked something >like: >  >	>>> show power >  >	Power Supply: good >	...           good >	CPU Fan:      good >	Temperature:  good > - >	Current ambient temperature is 41 degrees C ( >	System shutdown is set to 60 degrees C > , >	0 Enviornmental events are logged in nvram >  >	>>>  >  > = >I had them watch the ambiant temp for a little while, but it  >only went from 40 to 41.   L Way too hot! On Friday I did a bit of digging and confirmed it by talking to* a couple of VAX/Alpha hardware engineers.   M My monitoring program rings an alarms when systems go above 28 degrees C, and 2 recommends an emergency shutdown above 35 degrees.  M Sorry if this message comes across garbled - I am writing it on Mac OS X, the + least reliable system I have used in years.  __
 Paul Sture Switzerland    ------------------------------    Date: 14 Jul 2002 08:05:39 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) # Subject: Re: HP Itanium2 benchmarks 3 Message-ID: <enzA1s9u9QFT@eisner.encompasserve.org>   e In article <1026594796.481262@haldjas.folklore.ee>, Sander Vesik <sander@haldjas.folklore.ee> writes: = > In comp.arch Larry Kilgallen <Kilgallen@spamcop.net> wrote: P >> In article <3d2f2a5f$1@news.meer.net>, lindahl@pbm.com (Greg Lindahl) writes:F >>> I was reading the HP Itanium2 performance whitepaper and noticed a! >>> couple of interesting points:  >>> J >>> In the lmbench section, page 7, they state "The zx1 hardware pre-fetchI >>> plays a significant role in achieving this score". If this were true, " >>> then they broke the benchmark. >>  F >> But for anybody whose real program benefits, that is not a problem. > N > yes - but this does not mean the real memory latency is now lower, just thatL > some more programs can take advantage of prefetching. Which is an entirely > different thing...  E Memory latency is of no interest except to the extent that it affects  computer programs.   ------------------------------  + Date: Sun, 14 Jul 2002 14:40:34 +0000 (UTC) / From: mccalpin@gmp246.austin.ibm.com (McCalpin) # Subject: Re: HP Itanium2 benchmarks 1 Message-ID: <ags2h2$g66$1@ausnews.austin.ibm.com>   3 In article <enzA1s9u9QFT@eisner.encompasserve.org>, . Larry Kilgallen <Kilgallen@SpamCop.net> wrote:f >In article <1026594796.481262@haldjas.folklore.ee>, Sander Vesik <sander@haldjas.folklore.ee> writes:> >> In comp.arch Larry Kilgallen <Kilgallen@spamcop.net> wrote:Q >>> In article <3d2f2a5f$1@news.meer.net>, lindahl@pbm.com (Greg Lindahl) writes: G >>>> I was reading the HP Itanium2 performance whitepaper and noticed a " >>>> couple of interesting points: >>>>  K >>>> In the lmbench section, page 7, they state "The zx1 hardware pre-fetch J >>>> plays a significant role in achieving this score". If this were true,# >>>> then they broke the benchmark.  >>> G >>> But for anybody whose real program benefits, that is not a problem.  >>  O >> yes - but this does not mean the real memory latency is now lower, just that M >> some more programs can take advantage of prefetching. Which is an entirely  >> different thing...  > F >Memory latency is of no interest except to the extent that it affects >computer programs.   : Yes, but measuring bandwidth and calling it latency is not very interesting, either....  ? I was very careful in my POWER4 measurements to make sure that  ? the lat_mem_rd code was set up to avoid activating the hardware  prefetch feature.  --  9 John D. McCalpin, Ph.D.           mccalpin@austin.ibm.com F Senior Technical Staff Member     IBM POWER Microprocessor Development-     "I am willing to make mistakes as long as 1      someone else is willing to learn from them."    ------------------------------    Date: 14 Jul 2002 09:18:20 -0700/ From: pxxo-i60l@dea.spamcon.org (Phil Ottewell) / Subject: Re: List the processes using a mailbox = Message-ID: <4ed35bd8.0207140818.74fbd5d3@posting.google.com>   C As  Martin Vorlaender said, Neill Clift's MBOX program is ideal for > looking at a number of mailbox characteristics, and it is also8 available at http://www.pottsoft.com/home/pds/pds.html .   - Phil Ottewell #   Reply to phil AT pottsoft DOT com    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 14 Jul 2002 17:07:37 +0200 D From: "Niels J=?ISO-8859-1?B?+A==?=rgen Kruse" <nj_kruse@get2net.dk> Subject: Re: McKinley Cometh... . Message-ID: <UtgY8.77$HU4.982@news.get2net.dk>  I I artiklen <z62X8.127805$vq.6494696@bin6.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com> , "Bill  % Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> skrev:   F > Ah, but that's comparing off-chip cache to off-chip cache - and at aI > particularly interesting pair of granularities, since IIRC no SPEC test L > currently requires more than about 200 MB to run in (and quite a few wouldL > run completely in 128 MB).  POWER4 has about 1.5 MB of on-chip (L2) cache,L > which is smaller than most if not all of the SPEC tests, so external cache > is still a major win.  > M > I recognize that as long as cache is well over an order of magnitude faster M > than main memory then cache speed tends to be less critical than cache miss K > rate.  But miss rate (at least for truly random data that greatly exceeds I > the cache size) goes down pretty slowly with size increases - at best a L > square-root relationship and ISTR it's even worse - so for at least *some*L > values of size and speed a much faster on-chip cache can work as well as aL > slower off-chip one, and 6 MB is a sufficient fraction of 32 MB that whileF > it might be *somewhat* slower overall the amount may not be all that > significant.  H The POWER4 L3 is not an order of magnitude faster than main memory, moreG like the latency figures given for on-chip memory controllers. The main G benefit I see is in the cache tags, which help reduce coherency traffic  between MCM's.   --8 Mvh./Regards,    Niels Jrgen Kruse,    Vanlse, Denmark   ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 14 Jul 2002 15:32:00 GMT # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> 4 Subject: Re: McKinley tops SpecFP AND SpecInt chartsF Message-ID: <QPgY8.5931$WsS.2971@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>  H ""Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr"" <winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>C wrote in message news:00A10E07.608C0F84@SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU... H > In article <uEWX8.3147$WsS.1537@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>,% "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> writes:  > > 8 > >"Bob Ceculski" <bob@instantwhip.com> wrote in message: > >news:d7791aa1.0207130441.6df5ba6d@posting.google.com... > >>J > >> I think you are underestimating Carly ... she is a former MIT studentJ > >> which many ex-DEC techs were, and she understands the DEC superiorityK > >> and Ken Olson philosophy, unlike Capellas/Palmer bean counters ... she  > >> may just suprise you! > > E > >Bob, in the end you may well be correct. However you cannot make a  sweepingB > >statement that simply because somebody went to MIT has the same
 philosophy@ > >of others who also went to MIT, nor that she understands 'DEC
 superiority'. / > >That kind of statement simply hold no water.  > F > And even further, a lot of HP/Agilent people don't think Ms. FiorinaL > understands _HP's_ considerable tradition of technical superiority or careH > for employees - and that was moving into a company that still existed. > L > It's possible that she'll get and take good advice and the results of thisJ > merger will be surprisingly good, but we can't predict that based on herI > having met Ken Olsen once.  I expect Bob Palmer met Ken Olsen more than  once.  >   K Having been involved just as much on the business side of companies as much J as the technical side, I just get a very strong sense of Carly as being anI autocrat who was very late to the 80's/90's 'let's take over somebody and E get big' type of senior executive. That's the way it appears from the  outside.  I For all I know, she could be one of those execs whom I admire - the one's L who practice a good deal of "Management by walking around" and chatting withL the 'little folk'. If she is, then at least I'd take some comfort in knowingL that there were a wide variety of opinions elicited by her before taking anyI actions. I may disagree with the decision, but through that process she'd I definitely hear from the people who actually do the work. I just have not L heard much anecdotal evidence that she does that beyond the managed visit toI ZKO that received wide play in c.o.v. Perhaps she does this sort of thing L regularly, and in all fairness, for a company as large and as geographicallyL disbursed as HP, it is probably a difficult proposition for any senior exec.  E To a certain extent, this is why I suggested about a month ago that a G 'customer initiated conference call' be scheduled and Carly be asked to K participate. I still think it would be a fine opportunity for her to listen K and speak for an hour or so to a wide range of customers of all sizes, with J the comments being polite but unfiltered by any HP managers who may have a- particular axe to grind one way or the other.    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 14 Jul 2002 10:45:49 -0400 * From: "Stanley F. Quayle" <stan@stanq.com> Subject: Re: MO disks on VMS? . Message-ID: <3D31565D.16170.40B1B5C@localhost>  1 On 2 Jul 2002, at 12:12, Stanley F. Quayle wrote: > > I need to read some 230 MB magneto-optical disks.  I have a @ > VAXstation 4000-60 and a DPWS 500au available, and a range of * > operating systems from VMS 5.5-2 to 7.3.  E I found out that the Fujitsu DYNAMO 640SZI SCSI drive works on Alpha  E with VMS 7.3.  Many thanks to those that responded, especially Glenn  E Everhart, who provided an old DECUS utility to decode the Perceptics   WORMS-11 disk format.   F I was able to read 128 MB, 230 MB, and 540 MB disks.  I was also able D to init, mount, and read/write/erase files on a 540 MB disk.  These & disk formats are 512 bytes per sector.  D Attempts to init a 640 MB disk fail with "Medium is offline".  That E density requires 2048 bytes per sector.  Later, I may try the 640 MB  C disks with CHARON-VAX -- the drive comes with a driver for Windows   2000.    Thanks again to everyone...   
 --Stan Quayle ! President, Quayle Consulting Inc.   
 ----------G Stanley F. Quayle, P.E.   N8SQ   +1 614-868-1363   Fax: +1 614 868-1671 1 8572 North Spring Ct. NW, Pickerington, OH  43147 = Preferred address:  stan@stanq.com       http://www.stanq.com    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 14 Jul 2002 10:30:23 -0400 * From: Joseph Woodrum <WOODRUM@concord.edu>5 Subject: OpenVMS Alpha 7.3-1 vs. the next VAX release < Message-ID: <20020714.103027.284158.NETNEWS@WVNVM.WVNET.EDU>  J Does anyone know which, if any, of the new features of OpenVMS Alpha 7.3-1+ make it to the next release of OpenVMS VAX?    Joseph      L ============================================================================  >      "Living an experience, a particular fate, is accepting it<       fully....It is not a matter of explaining and solving,*       but of experiencing and describing.":                                              -Albert CamusB                                               The Myth of Sisyphus  L ============================================================================L ============================================================================> Joseph Woodrum                             woodrum@concord.edu" Computer Center Operations Manager9 Concord College                            (304) 384-5124aB Athens, West Virginia                      (800) 344-6679 ext 5124L ============================================================================ http://woodrum.concord.eduL ============================================================================   ------------------------------   Date: 14 Jul 02 09:03:55 +0200) From: p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture)-J Subject: Re: OpenVMS on third-party platforms (was: Re: VMS port delayed!)) Message-ID: <l6I9JvtXDJP2@elias.decus.ch>:  k In article <cvWX8.3140$WsS.881@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>, "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> writes:b   <mucho snippo> > 4 > FYI:  JF and I are definitely not the same person. >   N But John, you are getting boring and sounding like a stuck record. Please step= back a little, review your recent posts, and come back later.y  O Flame me if you like, but I used to read your posts with interest, and now find H I am simply bored. IMHO your time would be better spent writing quality," objective, articles for the press. __
 Paul Sture Switzerlandm   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 14 Jul 2002 08:52:34 +0100n From: Roy Omond <Roy@Omond.net> J Subject: Re: OpenVMS on third-party platforms (was: Re: VMS port delayed!)) Message-ID: <3D312DC1.404E843F@Omond.net>t   Nick Maclaren wrote:  P > In article <agotsi$atc$3@aquila.mdx.ac.uk>,  <david20@alpha1.mdx.ac.uk> wrote: > >>( > >>Had I but world enough and time .... > >>E > >>Frankly, if someone donated a suitable box or I could get one for F > >>an appropriate price, I should quite like VMS on my home computer.E > >>Currently, it's Linux.  And, given the usual 36-hour day, I mightoC > >>well end up being a porting site for several significant codes.,= > >>After all, I was for MVT.  But, lacking a 36-hour day :-(  > >sL > >That begs the question of exactly what you consider an affordable price ?6 > >Is the $950 price of a DS10L from  island to much ? >cC > Not at all, though I don't regard that as particularly good valueeH > for money, given the properties of the box, and a decent configurationE > would be rather more.  But I paid three times that for the one I amr > currently using. >vF > However, the real trouble is the lack of a 36-hour day :-(  It wouldD > be nice to be able to get away from Unix for a while, but I reallyE > can't afford the time to do so.  And, no, I do NOT regard MicrosoftwC > systems as a relief from Unix!  There are a few other people witheD > my viewpoint around Cambridge, and I have passed the word on aboutF > the hobbyist licences.  Some of us have commercial contacts and real& > commercial porting backgrounds, too. >eD > So, what I am saying, is that the hobbyist licence could well takeE > off (especially in dual-boot mode) if boxes that could run it startlB > to be very widespread.  DS10Ls aren't, and few people here wouldB > buy one for their own use - commodity Intel or AMD PCs give more > the the money.  = Nick, I have a cheap Alpha (DEC 3000-600, 128 Mbytes, 2 GbyteP? disk, CD) for 75.00 with VMS 7.3 pre-installed.  Alternativelye( a DEC 3000-800 with the same for 85.00.? If I'm not mistaken, you live "just up-the-road" from me (GreatsH Shelford ?);  I'm in Great Chesterford, 4 miles north of Saffron Walden.   Interested ?  A P.s. I remember you from the days of Phoenix ('74/'75) when I wase; porting the MDS (Multidimensional Scaling) suite to the IBMs6 platform, so I guess that makes me an old fart too :-)B I still think that ZED was one of the best text editors ever made.  A I think it would be great to get you on-board VMS, what with your  35-hour day :-)1  	 Roy Omond  Blue Bubble Ltd.   ------------------------------   Date: 14 Jul 2002 09:17:39 GMT( From: nmm1@cus.cam.ac.uk (Nick Maclaren)J Subject: Re: OpenVMS on third-party platforms (was: Re: VMS port delayed!)0 Message-ID: <agrfjj$sp4$1@pegasus.csx.cam.ac.uk>  K In article <3D312DC1.404E843F@Omond.net>, Roy Omond  <Roy@Omond.net> wrote:y >o> >Nick, I have a cheap Alpha (DEC 3000-600, 128 Mbytes, 2 Gbyte@ >disk, CD) for 75.00 with VMS 7.3 pre-installed.  Alternatively) >a DEC 3000-800 with the same for 85.00.,@ >If I'm not mistaken, you live "just up-the-road" from me (GreatI >Shelford ?);  I'm in Great Chesterford, 4 miles north of Saffron Walden.s > 
 >Interested ?a  B The location and price are good, but no thanks!  When I bought theC machine I am currently using, I considered an Alpha so that I couldr? dual boot VMS, but I really don't have the time or room to havenD multiple machines at home.  This is why I think that the combinationB of a hobbyist licence and a machine that people want to buy anywayA is the key.  I found that the ability to dual boot VMS would costeC me as much again as for Linux and Windows NT and comparable systemso in other respects :-(   B >P.s. I remember you from the days of Phoenix ('74/'75) when I was< >porting the MDS (Multidimensional Scaling) suite to the IBM7 >platform, so I guess that makes me an old fart too :-) C >I still think that ZED was one of the best text editors ever made.m  B Greetings from back then!  I remember the MDS code, too ....  And,B yes, lots of us miss ZED - I tried to port it to Unix (which would? also have put in on VMS), but it was too horribly entwined withbB the MVS I/O model.  It would have needed a complete reprogramming,? manually - mere transliteration of the Assembler to C would notl have made a usable editor.  B >I think it would be great to get you on-board VMS, what with your >35-hour day :-)  A It would ne nice, especially if I start doing program developmento@ again.  I find the lack of multiple systems to check portability a bit tedious :-)u     Regards, Nick Maclaren,* University of Cambridge Computing Service,> New Museums Site, Pembroke Street, Cambridge CB2 3QH, England. Email:  nmm1@cam.ac.uk/ Tel.:  +44 1223 334761    Fax:  +44 1223 334679D   ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 14 Jul 2002 15:17:35 GMT6# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com><J Subject: Re: OpenVMS on third-party platforms (was: Re: VMS port delayed!)I Message-ID: <jCgY8.56660$WJf1.25590@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>@  6 "Paul Sture" <p_sture@elias.decus.ch> wrote in message# news:l6I9JvtXDJP2@elias.decus.ch...tG > In article <cvWX8.3140$WsS.881@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>,i% "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> writes:e >e > <mucho snippo> > >n6 > > FYI:  JF and I are definitely not the same person. > >> >hK > But John, you are getting boring and sounding like a stuck record. Pleasee step? > back a little, review your recent posts, and come back later.a >eL > Flame me if you like, but I used to read your posts with interest, and now findJ > I am simply bored. IMHO your time would be better spent writing quality,$ > objective, articles for the press.    L Not a flame, but isn't HP's lack of marketing of VMS getting a little boring too?  , I hear you...will try to tone it down a bit.   ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 14 Jul 2002 09:31:42 GMTg0 From: "Het Kritische Oog" <e.vandyken@chello.nl> Subject: Re: Oracle RDB on VMS/ Message-ID: <2ybY8.753900$yP6.22814024@Flipper>a  8 "Ransom Fitch" <rlfitch@peakpeak.com> schreef in bericht* news:000601c22a9d$930c8ae0$0a00a8c0@w2k...A > Anyone know where to get (find) and older version of Oracle RDBp > compatible with OpenVMS v6.2?f >f	 > thanks,r > Ransom Fitch >cJ When you buy/bought  a legal version form Oracle you have both manuals and support form Oracle. So I don't see a problem.i   Evert.   ------------------------------   Date: 14 Jul 2002 14:24:17 GMT3 From: gartmann@immunbio.mpg.de (Christoph Gartmann)a> Subject: Re: PW600au problem (probably h/w) - long and tedious0 Message-ID: <ags1ih$dac$1@n.ruf.uni-freiburg.de>  a In article <3D30984B.DDB192BF@wasd.vsm.com.au>, Mark Daniel <mark.daniel@wasd.vsm.com.au> writes:aI >Unfortunately a hardware maintainence call is not possible in this case.  >fI >This PW 600au restarts ('crashes') without so much as leaving a trace of ? >a dump or error log entry.  Obviously a hardware issue of some E >description.  Stable until there's lots of SCSI activity (backup fortF >instance) then bang!  I've tried moving everything off the A bus to aD >second SCSI controller but to no effect, even though there's now no >activity on that bus. >fE >I've included (what I think is) the relevant DIAGNOSE entry and some." >systems details from the console. >  >Any suggestions?p  M It loosk to me as if there is a problem with the device at SCSI-ID 0, not theeL SCSI controller. Thus, replace the device at ID 0 and see whether this cures# the problem (or remove the device).    Regards,    Christoph Gartmanne  H -- --------------------------------------------------------------------+H | Max-Planck-Institut fuer      Phone   : +49-761-5108-464   Fax: -452 |H | Immunbiologie                                                        |H | Postfach 1169                 Internet: gartmann@immunbio.mpg.de     |H | D-79011  Freiburg, Germany                                           |H +--------- http://www.immunbio.mpg.de/home/english/menue.html ---------+   ------------------------------   Date: 14 Jul 02 09:38:51 +0200) From: p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture)s Subject: Re: un-INITing a tape?t) Message-ID: <f8OnLunGP85D@elias.decus.ch>4  T In article <3D3077BB.7060105@iee.org>, "antonio.carlini" <arcarlini@iee.org> writes: >  > ) > These days you can (a) learn to backup, ' > (b) pay through the nose or (c) shrugi* > your shoulders and accept that your data! > was not worth that much anyway.h >   ; No. (a) is not an option now that I use an iBook with OS X.i* It crashes before I get to backup my data.  O (c) I am coming to terms with. Yesterday's photos also trashed, although I havenJ now learnt not to delete them from the camera before they are safely on my VMS boxv   :-)r __
 Paul Sture Switzerlandh  9 Mac OS X - Enron should have used it to cover their arsesn   ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 14 Jul 2002 09:58:50 GMT  From: "H Vlems" <hvlems@iae.nl>e Subject: Re: un-INITing a tape?z1 Message-ID: <uXbY8.4323$Q4.48785@typhoon.bart.nl>p  H That trick worked on a TK50 drive, but whether it works for DAT tapes...   Hans- "Dirk Munk" <munk@home.nl> schreef in bericht   news:3D305E2D.8070003@home.nl... > Stuart Fuller wrote: > > Mark Daniel wrote: > >b > >m? > >>Any way to un-INITIALIZE a (DAT) tape, or recover the data?n > >> > >>OpenVMS Alpha V7.3 > >>9 > >>(I'm surprised I've never needed to ask this before.)y > >> > >>As always, TIA.m > >>J > >>+--------------------------------------------------------------------+H > >> Mark Daniel                         http://wasd.vsm.com.au/adelaideI > >> mailto:Mark.Daniel@wasd.vsm.com.au (Mark.Daniel@dsto.defence.gov.au)1J > >>+--------------------------------------------------------------------+ > >n > >o > > No.  > >pH > > At least not with the standard hardware.  Some data recovery vendors claimoJ > > to be able to recover the data on the tape following the volume labels that! > > you just wrote with the INIT.8 > >L > >         StuE >. > You can do that yourself.WF > If you mount the tape as foreign, you can copy the contents to disk. >m) > (copy mka500:x dka100:[my-dir]file1.dats. > copy mka500:x dka100:[my-dir]file2.dat etc.) >0L > It is possible to skip to the next tapemark too, with a forward command or so.CB > Many years ago I used this to copy all kind of data from a tape. >, > Dirk >d   ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 14 Jul 2002 10:00:44 GMTl From: "H.Vlems" <hvlems@iae.nl>  Subject: Re: un-INITing a tape? 1 Message-ID: <gZbY8.4324$Q4.48839@typhoon.bart.nl>   + That worked on a TK50, but on DAT tapes ???   - "Dirk Munk" <munk@home.nl> schreef in bericht   news:3D305E2D.8070003@home.nl... > Stuart Fuller wrote: > > Mark Daniel wrote: > >t > > ? > >>Any way to un-INITIALIZE a (DAT) tape, or recover the data?f > >> > >>OpenVMS Alpha V7.3 > >>9 > >>(I'm surprised I've never needed to ask this before.)r > >> > >>As always, TIA.o > >>J > >>+--------------------------------------------------------------------+H > >> Mark Daniel                         http://wasd.vsm.com.au/adelaideI > >> mailto:Mark.Daniel@wasd.vsm.com.au (Mark.Daniel@dsto.defence.gov.au) J > >>+--------------------------------------------------------------------+ > >e > >  > > No.  > > H > > At least not with the standard hardware.  Some data recovery vendors claimtJ > > to be able to recover the data on the tape following the volume labels that! > > you just wrote with the INIT.l > >t > >         Stu  >  > You can do that yourself.cF > If you mount the tape as foreign, you can copy the contents to disk. > ) > (copy mka500:x dka100:[my-dir]file1.dat . > copy mka500:x dka100:[my-dir]file2.dat etc.) > L > It is possible to skip to the next tapemark too, with a forward command or so.'B > Many years ago I used this to copy all kind of data from a tape. >o > Dirk >    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 14 Jul 2002 12:09:06 +0200r From: Dirk Munk <munk@home.nl> Subject: Re: un-INITing a tape?u& Message-ID: <3D314DC2.6030601@home.nl>   antonio.carlini wrote: > Dirk Munk wrote: >  >  > You can do that yourself.I >  > If you mount the tape as foreign, you can copy the contents to disk.l >  > 2 > You can certainly mount it and you can certainly8 > copy data. There won't be any, however. Ever since the6 > days of the TK50 (or thereabouts) the mechanism used8 > to encode data on the tape has meant that the firmware< > on the device cannot go past the EOT mark. It's a feature. > 2 > Both DAT and DLT devices have this as a feature. > 2 > Back when DEC had a storage division, this was a: > frequent request ... people did not like the engineering7 > team's answer ("Nope. We cannot do that") but I nevere6 > saw anyone ever get anything other than that answer.; > The philosophy was that if your data mattered enough that45 > you were willing to pay, you could go to one of theu5 > 3rd party data recovery firms that had the time and72 > the kit to (perhaps) get your data back for you. > E >  > Many years ago I used this to copy all kind of data from a tape.  >  > 0 > Many years ago you had nice simple 9 track (or1 > maybe even 7 track) tapes where the drive could53 > just keep going until it picked up the datastreamS > again.  O Yes, I did that with a 9 track tape. I did write it was along time ago :-). It yO was a spare tape from our bank that was used for information about payments to  O our company. (normaly our own tapes were used). I was able to extract a lot of  N data for other customers. I stumbled on the possiblity to read beyond the EOT L mark because the tape was in EBCDIC, and I had to copy the contents to disk & before my Cobol program could read it.   >  > ) > These days you can (a) learn to backup, ' > (b) pay through the nose or (c) shrug-* > your shoulders and accept that your data! > was not worth that much anyway.e > 	 > AntonioQ >  >    ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 14 Jul 2002 10:08:55 GMT  From: "H.Vlems" <hvlems@iae.nl>1 Subject: Re: un-INITing a tape? 1 Message-ID: <X4cY8.4325$Q4.48607@typhoon.bart.nl>:  L That used to work on TK50's, not sure whether DAT drives support that trick.  - "Dirk Munk" <munk@home.nl> schreef in berichto  news:3D305E2D.8070003@home.nl... > Stuart Fuller wrote: > > Mark Daniel wrote: > >s > >e? > >>Any way to un-INITIALIZE a (DAT) tape, or recover the data?s > >> > >>OpenVMS Alpha V7.3 > >>9 > >>(I'm surprised I've never needed to ask this before.)e > >> > >>As always, TIA.e > >>J > >>+--------------------------------------------------------------------+H > >> Mark Daniel                         http://wasd.vsm.com.au/adelaideI > >> mailto:Mark.Daniel@wasd.vsm.com.au (Mark.Daniel@dsto.defence.gov.au)pJ > >>+--------------------------------------------------------------------+ > >C > >  > > No.  > > H > > At least not with the standard hardware.  Some data recovery vendors claim=J > > to be able to recover the data on the tape following the volume labels that! > > you just wrote with the INIT.= > >= > >         Stum >  > You can do that yourself.rF > If you mount the tape as foreign, you can copy the contents to disk. > ) > (copy mka500:x dka100:[my-dir]file1.dat . > copy mka500:x dka100:[my-dir]file2.dat etc.) >xL > It is possible to skip to the next tapemark too, with a forward command or so.=B > Many years ago I used this to copy all kind of data from a tape. >= > Dirk >=   ------------------------------   Date: 14 Jul 02 08:14:55 +0200) From: p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture).' Subject: Re: Where to put startup stuffV) Message-ID: <9VOG7yIttg4e@elias.decus.ch>o  N Sorry Alan, I have lost your original question, where you were asking about my; wording. IIRC I said something about "appropriate values". <  K I was being deliberately vague (and yes, lazy too - I didn't want to sit in N front of my console writing down exact messages during a reboot), as I have no* clue what others might use STARTUP_Px for.  H Thinking back, the first time I put a test for P1 being "MIN" (or was isJ "MINI"?) into SYLOGICALS.COM was when running an FDDI cluster. 2 systems aJ mile apart, with data disk shadowing. IIRC a normal boot required an earlyG mount of the remote disks (hence done in SYLOGICALS, but a minimum boot- wanted to skip that.   __
 Paul Sture Switzerlando  ; Oops - iPhoto on Mac OS X has hung again - what a surprise!lJ iPhoto on Mac OS - the most unstable commercial program I have worked withO in 25 years! 25 years ago I did full backups before every batch run in order toa) recover from program and operator errors.a  8 With Mac OS X I need to do backups more often than that.   If it will let me.   ------------------------------   Date: 14 Jul 02 09:47:03 +0200) From: p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture)r1 Subject: Re: Who said Carly doesn't like OpenVMS?y) Message-ID: <AEWOP7lFjg1N@elias.decus.ch>   l In article <zj6Y8.13824$Sb3.536969@twister.southeast.rr.com>, "Kenneth Farmer" <kfarmer@openvms.org> writes:) > Who said Carly doesn't like OpenVMS? :)o > ; > http://www.openvms.org/stories.php?story=02/07/13/7134900m > - Sorry, but that's giving me "Story not found"t __
 Paul Sture Switzerlandg   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 14 Jul 2002 13:19:53 +0200i) From: Bart Zorn <B.Zorn@xs4all.nospam.nl>i1 Subject: Re: Who said Carly doesn't like OpenVMS?s/ Message-ID: <3D315E59.8030506@xs4all.nospam.nl>    Paul Sture wrote: n > In article <zj6Y8.13824$Sb3.536969@twister.southeast.rr.com>, "Kenneth Farmer" <kfarmer@openvms.org> writes: > ) >>Who said Carly doesn't like OpenVMS? :)m >>; >>http://www.openvms.org/stories.php?story=02/07/13/7134900y >> > / > Sorry, but that's giving me "Story not found"n > __ > Paul Sture
 > Switzerlando  D As often is the case, the URL was folded onto two lines. Here it is E again, and you should concatenate everything that is between the two u blank lines:  C http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&ncid=581&e=3&cid=581&u= 0 /nm/20020712/tc_nm/bush_homeland_technology_dc_1   HTH,  	 Bart Zornu   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 14 Jul 2002 19:02:41 +0200o) From: Bart Zorn <B.Zorn@xs4all.nospam.nl>01 Subject: Re: Who said Carly doesn't like OpenVMS?t/ Message-ID: <3D31AEB1.6000202@xs4all.nospam.nl>0   Bart Zorn wrote: > Paul Sture wrote:n > J >> In article <zj6Y8.13824$Sb3.536969@twister.southeast.rr.com>, "Kenneth ( >> Farmer" <kfarmer@openvms.org> writes: >>+ >>> Who said Carly doesn't like OpenVMS? :)r >>>e= >>> http://www.openvms.org/stories.php?story=02/07/13/7134900i >>>o >>0 >> Sorry, but that's giving me "Story not found" >> __e
 >> Paul Sturet >> Switzerland >  > F > As often is the case, the URL was folded onto two lines. Here it is G > again, and you should concatenate everything that is between the two o > blank lines: > E > http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&ncid=581&e=3&cid=581&u=G2 > /nm/20020712/tc_nm/bush_homeland_technology_dc_1 >  > HTH, >  > Bart Zorn  >   8 Please ignore this post. I have messed things up. Sorry.   Bart   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2002.385 ************************