1 INFO-VAX	Mon, 15 Jul 2002	Volume 2002 : Issue 387       Contents:- Re: "Clean" CISC (was Re: McKinley Cometh...) - Re: "Clean" CISC (was Re: McKinley Cometh...) - Re: "Clean" CISC (was Re: McKinley Cometh...) - Re: "Clean" CISC (was Re: McKinley Cometh...) - Re: "Clean" CISC (was Re: McKinley Cometh...) - Re: "Clean" CISC (was Re: McKinley Cometh...) - Re: "Clean" CISC (was Re: McKinley Cometh...) - Re: "Clean" CISC (was Re: McKinley Cometh...) - Re: "Clean" CISC (was Re: McKinley Cometh...) - RE: "Clean" CISC (was Re: McKinley Cometh...) - Re: "Clean" CISC (was Re: McKinley Cometh...) - Re: "Clean" CISC (was Re: McKinley Cometh...) - Re: "Clean" CISC (was Re: McKinley Cometh...) - Re: "Clean" CISC (was Re: McKinley Cometh...) - Re: "Clean" CISC (was Re: McKinley Cometh...) - Re: "Clean" CISC (was Re: McKinley Cometh...)  AN easier UNZIP  Re: AN easier UNZIP  Backing up unix filestructures/ RE: comp.os.vms "whiners" make news on Inquirer / Re: comp.os.vms "whiners" make news on Inquirer   Creating a "UNIX disk" under VMS$ Re: Creating a "UNIX disk" under VMS$ RE: Creating a "UNIX disk" under VMS Re: Databases x lock management  Delete of .bck file  Re: Delete of .bck file  Re: Doing the Math on Alpha  Re: DS10 shutting down How to kill users  Re: How to kill users  Re: How to kill users  Re: How to kill users  Re: How to kill users   HP Lan Console x Itanium servers/ Is it possible to write UUDecode/Encode in DCL? 3 Re: Is it possible to write UUDecode/Encode in DCL? 3 Re: Is it possible to write UUDecode/Encode in DCL? ! Re: Itanium II Another Shoe Drops ! Re: Itanium II Another Shoe Drops & Re: List the processes using a mailbox+ Re: McKinley tops SpecFP AND SpecInt charts + Re: McKinley tops SpecFP AND SpecInt charts  Re: Microvax gathering dust... RE: Microvax gathering dust... Re: Mousewheel+ Re: Only 20% drop in VMS systems (was: wow) . Re: OpenSSL and certificates concept questions. Re: OpenSSL and certificates concept questionsA Re: OpenVMS on third-party platforms (was: Re: VMS port delayed!) A Re: OpenVMS on third-party platforms (was: Re: VMS port delayed!) A Re: OpenVMS on third-party platforms (was: Re: VMS port delayed!) A Re: OpenVMS on third-party platforms (was: Re: VMS port delayed!) ( Re: oracleRDb on Open VMS install errors( Re: oracleRDb on Open VMS install errors5 Re: PW600au problem (probably h/w) - long and tedious 4 Terminal Emu to MicroVaxII - typed characters effect8 Re: Terminal Emu to MicroVaxII - typed characters effect8 Re: Terminal Emu to MicroVaxII - typed characters effectH Re: Tops-10/Tops-20 features not in VMS ?, was: Re: Looking for terminalH Re: Tops-10/Tops-20 features not in VMS ?, was: Re: Looking for terminal Re: trivial UNZIP question Re: un-INITing a tape? Re: un-INITing a tape? Re: un-INITing a tape? RE: un-INITing a tape? VMS commitment Re: VMS commitment Re: VMS commitment Re: VMS commitment Re: VMS commitment Re: VMS commitment Wanted: NFS experiences...( Re: Who said Carly doesn't like OpenVMS?( Re: Who said Carly doesn't like OpenVMS?( Re: Who said Carly doesn't like OpenVMS?( RE: Who said Carly doesn't like OpenVMS?  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 09:57:09 +0200 9 From: Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com> 6 Subject: Re: "Clean" CISC (was Re: McKinley Cometh...)' Message-ID: <3D328055.F2D8A64D@aaa.com>   2 Oh, I think it's older than that, just look at the end of this line.    Jan-Erik Sderholm.    Everhart wrote:  >  > E > Strings terminated by a terminator character are a residue of paper F > tape (have a look at the ASCII control character names sometime), if  > not of still older technology. > L > Fascinating that so many errors are caused by techniques invented for such > old systems...   ------------------------------   Date: 15 Jul 2002 09:01:16 GMT From: Dan.Pop@ifh.de (Dan Pop)6 Subject: Re: "Clean" CISC (was Re: McKinley Cometh...)* Message-ID: <agu30s$oep$1@sunnews.cern.ch>  Z In <3D2F4D15.863C42B5@hda.hydro.com> Terje Mathisen <terje.mathisen@hda.hydro.com> writes:  A >What is important is to make sure that all accesses are properly G >aligned, and this can easily lead to significant slowdowns when str*() $ >is used on randomly aligned inputs.  @ It only takes a few byte accesses to get the input word aligned.   Dan  -- Dan Pop  DESY Zeuthen, RZ group Email: Dan.Pop@ifh.de    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 19:16:15 +0010 % From: paddy.o'brien@zzz.tg.nsw.gov.au 6 Subject: Re: "Clean" CISC (was Re: McKinley Cometh...)5 Message-ID: <01KK4V4F988Y000EYD@tgmail.tg.nsw.gov.au>   	 Jan-Erik,   F Ignorance, I do not understand your implication of what is older than=	  paper=20 F tape. ??  Perhaps Hollerith cards, but isn't the technology similar t=	 o what=20  Glen was implying?   Regards, Paddy  3 >Oh, I think it's older than that, just look at the  >end of this line. >  >Jan-Erik S=F6derholm. >  >Everhart wrote: >>=20  >>=20 F >> Strings terminated by a terminator character are a residue of pape= r F >> tape (have a look at the ASCII control character names sometime), = if! >> not of still older technology.  >>=20 F >> Fascinating that so many errors are caused by techniques invented = for such >> old systems...    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 19:34:11 +0010 % From: paddy.o'brien@zzz.tg.nsw.gov.au 6 Subject: Re: "Clean" CISC (was Re: McKinley Cometh...)5 Message-ID: <01KK4VQOGD5U000F5S@tgmail.tg.nsw.gov.au>    Dan Pop wrote:  5 >In <3D2F4D15.863C42B5@hda.hydro.com> Terje Mathisen  ' ><terje.mathisen@hda.hydro.com> writes:  > B >>What is important is to make sure that all accesses are properlyH >>aligned, and this can easily lead to significant slowdowns when str*()% >>is used on randomly aligned inputs.  > A >It only takes a few byte accesses to get the input word aligned.   M And serious compilers can do this automagically.  E.g., Fortran on Alpha can  = align COMMON and (VMS) STRUCTUREs, presumably also F90 TYPEs.    Regards, Paddy   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 12:05:17 +0200 9 From: Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com> 6 Subject: Re: "Clean" CISC (was Re: McKinley Cometh...)' Message-ID: <3D329E5D.AC5C1F4F@aaa.com>    Or at the end of *this* line.   ? OK, well then , the "." that since long have ended text strings $ (aka "sentences") in most languages.   :-)   	 Jan-Erik.     & paddy.o'brien@zzz.tg.nsw.gov.au wrote: >  > Jan-Erik,  > M > Ignorance, I do not understand your implication of what is older than paper M > tape. ??  Perhaps Hollerith cards, but isn't the technology similar to what  > Glen was implying? >  > Regards, Paddy > 5 > >Oh, I think it's older than that, just look at the  > >end of this line. > >  > >Jan-Erik Sderholm. > >  > >Everhart wrote: > >> > >>H > >> Strings terminated by a terminator character are a residue of paperI > >> tape (have a look at the ASCII control character names sometime), if # > >> not of still older technology.  > >>O > >> Fascinating that so many errors are caused by techniques invented for such  > >> old systems...    ------------------------------   Date: 15 Jul 2002 11:00:35 GMT( From: nmm1@cus.cam.ac.uk (Nick Maclaren)6 Subject: Re: "Clean" CISC (was Re: McKinley Cometh...)0 Message-ID: <agua0j$96l$1@pegasus.csx.cam.ac.uk>  5 In article <01KK4V4F988Y000EYD@tgmail.tg.nsw.gov.au>, ' paddy.o'brien@zzz.tg.nsw.gov.au writes:  |> Jan-Erik, |>  I |> Ignorance, I do not understand your implication of what is older than=  |>  paper=20I |> tape. ??  Perhaps Hollerith cards, but isn't the technology similar t=  |> o what=20 |> Glen was implying?   @ No, paper tape is older than Hollerith cards.  The answer is the
 telegraph.     Regards, Nick Maclaren,* University of Cambridge Computing Service,> New Museums Site, Pembroke Street, Cambridge CB2 3QH, England. Email:  nmm1@cam.ac.uk/ Tel.:  +44 1223 334761    Fax:  +44 1223 334679    ------------------------------   Date: 15 Jul 2002 10:59:25 GMT( From: nmm1@cus.cam.ac.uk (Nick Maclaren)6 Subject: Re: "Clean" CISC (was Re: McKinley Cometh...)0 Message-ID: <agu9ud$957$1@pegasus.csx.cam.ac.uk>  K In article <agu30s$oep$1@sunnews.cern.ch>, Dan.Pop@ifh.de (Dan Pop) writes: ] |> In <3D2F4D15.863C42B5@hda.hydro.com> Terje Mathisen <terje.mathisen@hda.hydro.com> writes:  |>  D |> >What is important is to make sure that all accesses are properlyJ |> >aligned, and this can easily lead to significant slowdowns when str*()' |> >is used on randomly aligned inputs.  |>  C |> It only takes a few byte accesses to get the input word aligned.   A The problem is the handshaking on SMP systems.  You have a single = word operation as one CPU sees it, that spans two cache lines ? (and even pages).  This is non-trivial to get right, and really  not worth the hassle.      Regards, Nick Maclaren,* University of Cambridge Computing Service,> New Museums Site, Pembroke Street, Cambridge CB2 3QH, England. Email:  nmm1@cam.ac.uk/ Tel.:  +44 1223 334761    Fax:  +44 1223 334679    ------------------------------   Date: 15 Jul 2002 13:30:42 GMT From: Dan.Pop@ifh.de (Dan Pop)6 Subject: Re: "Clean" CISC (was Re: McKinley Cometh...)* Message-ID: <aguiq2$3al$1@sunnews.cern.ch>  R In <agu9ud$957$1@pegasus.csx.cam.ac.uk> nmm1@cus.cam.ac.uk (Nick Maclaren) writes:  h >  <agmm2h$a12$1@pegasus.csx.cam.ac.uk> <3D2F4D15.863C42B5@hda.hydro.com> <agu30s$oep$1@sunnews.cern.ch>' >NNTP-Posting-Host: libra.cus.cam.ac.uk % >Originator: nmm1@libra.cus.cam.ac.uk 2 >Xref: cern.ch comp.os.vms:356392 comp.arch:144219 >  > L >In article <agu30s$oep$1@sunnews.cern.ch>, Dan.Pop@ifh.de (Dan Pop) writes:^ >|> In <3D2F4D15.863C42B5@hda.hydro.com> Terje Mathisen <terje.mathisen@hda.hydro.com> writes: >|> E >|> >What is important is to make sure that all accesses are properly K >|> >aligned, and this can easily lead to significant slowdowns when str*() ( >|> >is used on randomly aligned inputs. >|> D >|> It only takes a few byte accesses to get the input word aligned. > B >The problem is the handshaking on SMP systems.  You have a single> >word operation as one CPU sees it, that spans two cache lines >(and even pages).  E On what architecture(s) cache lines and pages aren't multiples of the 
 word size?  D The very concept of memory word excludes the possibilities you have 
 mentioned.  C >This is non-trivial to get right, and really not worth the hassle.    ???    Dan  -- Dan Pop  DESY Zeuthen, RZ group Email: Dan.Pop@ifh.de    ------------------------------   Date: 15 Jul 2002 13:58:46 GMT( From: nmm1@cus.cam.ac.uk (Nick Maclaren)6 Subject: Re: "Clean" CISC (was Re: McKinley Cometh...)0 Message-ID: <agukem$id5$1@pegasus.csx.cam.ac.uk>  * In article <aguiq2$3al$1@sunnews.cern.ch>,  Dan.Pop@ifh.de (Dan Pop) writes:U |> In <agu9ud$957$1@pegasus.csx.cam.ac.uk> nmm1@cus.cam.ac.uk (Nick Maclaren) writes: k |> >  <agmm2h$a12$1@pegasus.csx.cam.ac.uk> <3D2F4D15.863C42B5@hda.hydro.com> <agu30s$oep$1@sunnews.cern.ch> O |> >In article <agu30s$oep$1@sunnews.cern.ch>, Dan.Pop@ifh.de (Dan Pop) writes: a |> >|> In <3D2F4D15.863C42B5@hda.hydro.com> Terje Mathisen <terje.mathisen@hda.hydro.com> writes:  |> >|>  H |> >|> >What is important is to make sure that all accesses are properlyN |> >|> >aligned, and this can easily lead to significant slowdowns when str*()+ |> >|> >is used on randomly aligned inputs.  |> >|>  G |> >|> It only takes a few byte accesses to get the input word aligned.  |> >E |> >The problem is the handshaking on SMP systems.  You have a single A |> >word operation as one CPU sees it, that spans two cache lines  |> >(and even pages).  |>  H |> On what architecture(s) cache lines and pages aren't multiples of the
 |> word size?   A None that I know of - that wasn't the problem I was referring to.   G |> The very concept of memory word excludes the possibilities you have  
 |> mentioned.   ? Actually, no, it doesn't.  But I can't imagine why anyone would > design a system so bizarre that the relationship was not true.  F |> >This is non-trivial to get right, and really not worth the hassle. |>   |> ???  > What I was referring to was the handling of unaligned accesses@ in the ISA, whether done by hardware or by emulation.  Both have< been done, and both are a nightmare as soon as you bring SMP= into the equation.  You can't use all word operations to copy ? unaligned objects unless the alignments are the same modulo the 
 word size.  A You referred to getting the INPUT word aligned.  I can't remember A the architectures now, but I have seen ones where unaligned input ? was supported (but was slow), but where unaligned output wasn't ? (for the reasons I mentioned).  However, even that is a pain to 
 implement.     Regards, Nick Maclaren,* University of Cambridge Computing Service,> New Museums Site, Pembroke Street, Cambridge CB2 3QH, England. Email:  nmm1@cam.ac.uk/ Tel.:  +44 1223 334761    Fax:  +44 1223 334679    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 07:07:31 -0700 # From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> 6 Subject: RE: "Clean" CISC (was Re: McKinley Cometh...)9 Message-ID: <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIMENDFFAA.tom@kednos.com>    >-----Original Message----- 0 >From: Nick Maclaren [mailto:nmm1@cus.cam.ac.uk]$ >Sent: Monday, July 15, 2002 6:59 AM >To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com7 >Subject: Re: "Clean" CISC (was Re: McKinley Cometh...)  >  >  > + >In article <aguiq2$3al$1@sunnews.cern.ch>, ! >Dan.Pop@ifh.de (Dan Pop) writes: ? >|> In <agu9ud$957$1@pegasus.csx.cam.ac.uk> nmm1@cus.cam.ac.uk   >(Nick Maclaren) writes:, >|> >  <agmm2h$a12$1@pegasus.csx.cam.ac.uk> A ><3D2F4D15.863C42B5@hda.hydro.com> <agu30s$oep$1@sunnews.cern.ch> D >|> >In article <agu30s$oep$1@sunnews.cern.ch>, Dan.Pop@ifh.de (Dan 
 >Pop) writes: < >|> >|> In <3D2F4D15.863C42B5@hda.hydro.com> Terje Mathisen ' ><terje.mathisen@hda.hydro.com> writes:  >|> >|> I >|> >|> >What is important is to make sure that all accesses are properly D >|> >|> >aligned, and this can easily lead to significant slowdowns  >when str*(), >|> >|> >is used on randomly aligned inputs. >|> >|> H >|> >|> It only takes a few byte accesses to get the input word aligned. >|> > F >|> >The problem is the handshaking on SMP systems.  You have a singleB >|> >word operation as one CPU sees it, that spans two cache lines >|> >(and even pages). >|> I >|> On what architecture(s) cache lines and pages aren't multiples of the  >|> word size? > B >None that I know of - that wasn't the problem I was referring to. > H >|> The very concept of memory word excludes the possibilities you have  >|> mentioned. > @ >Actually, no, it doesn't.  But I can't imagine why anyone would? >design a system so bizarre that the relationship was not true.  > G >|> >This is non-trivial to get right, and really not worth the hassle.  >|>  >|> ???  > ? >What I was referring to was the handling of unaligned accesses A >in the ISA, whether done by hardware or by emulation.  Both have = >been done, and both are a nightmare as soon as you bring SMP > >into the equation.  You can't use all word operations to copy@ >unaligned objects unless the alignments are the same modulo the >word size.  > B >You referred to getting the INPUT word aligned.  I can't rememberB >the architectures now, but I have seen ones where unaligned input@ >was supported (but was slow), but where unaligned output wasn't@ >(for the reasons I mentioned).  However, even that is a pain to >implement.   F It may be a pain, but at least IBM realized it was a requirement, thusH resulting in a one tick penalty (compare to alpha) for unaligned access.   >  > 	 >Regards,  >Nick Maclaren, + >University of Cambridge Computing Service, ? >New Museums Site, Pembroke Street, Cambridge CB2 3QH, England.  >Email:  nmm1@cam.ac.uk 0 >Tel.:  +44 1223 334761    Fax:  +44 1223 334679 >  >---' >Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. ; >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). A >Version: 6.0.372 / Virus Database: 207 - Release Date: 6/20/2002  >  --- & Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.: Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).@ Version: 6.0.372 / Virus Database: 207 - Release Date: 6/20/2002   ------------------------------   Date: 15 Jul 2002 14:32:22 GMT From: Dan.Pop@ifh.de (Dan Pop)6 Subject: Re: "Clean" CISC (was Re: McKinley Cometh...)* Message-ID: <agumdm$cok$1@sunnews.cern.ch>  R In <agukem$id5$1@pegasus.csx.cam.ac.uk> nmm1@cus.cam.ac.uk (Nick Maclaren) writes:  E > <agu9ud$957$1@pegasus.csx.cam.ac.uk> <aguiq2$3al$1@sunnews.cern.ch>c' >NNTP-Posting-Host: libra.cus.cam.ac.uk % >Originator: nmm1@libra.cus.cam.ac.ukI2 >Xref: cern.ch comp.os.vms:356404 comp.arch:144225 >  > + >In article <aguiq2$3al$1@sunnews.cern.ch>,e! >Dan.Pop@ifh.de (Dan Pop) writes: V >|> In <agu9ud$957$1@pegasus.csx.cam.ac.uk> nmm1@cus.cam.ac.uk (Nick Maclaren) writes:l >|> >  <agmm2h$a12$1@pegasus.csx.cam.ac.uk> <3D2F4D15.863C42B5@hda.hydro.com> <agu30s$oep$1@sunnews.cern.ch>P >|> >In article <agu30s$oep$1@sunnews.cern.ch>, Dan.Pop@ifh.de (Dan Pop) writes:b >|> >|> In <3D2F4D15.863C42B5@hda.hydro.com> Terje Mathisen <terje.mathisen@hda.hydro.com> writes: >|> >|> I >|> >|> >What is important is to make sure that all accesses are properlyiO >|> >|> >aligned, and this can easily lead to significant slowdowns when str*()N, >|> >|> >is used on randomly aligned inputs. >|> >|> H >|> >|> It only takes a few byte accesses to get the input word aligned.G >|> >                                                      ^^^^^^^^^^^^lF >|> >The problem is the handshaking on SMP systems.  You have a singleB >|> >word operation as one CPU sees it, that spans two cache lines >|> >(and even pages). >|> I >|> On what architecture(s) cache lines and pages aren't multiples of thee >|> word size? > B >None that I know of - that wasn't the problem I was referring to. > H >|> The very concept of memory word excludes the possibilities you have  >|> mentioned. >c >Actually, no, it doesn't.   Please elaborate.A  % >But I can't imagine why anyone wouldg? >design a system so bizarre that the relationship was not true.y  E If the relationship was not true, how would you define the concept oft memory word?  G >|> >This is non-trivial to get right, and really not worth the hassle.a >|>  >|> ???: >S? >What I was referring to was the handling of unaligned accessesV6 >in the ISA, whether done by hardware or by emulation.  F But there were absolutely no unaligned accesses in the technique I wasA describing above, so you were *completely* out of context.  I was E pointing out that aligned accesses are possible after only a few byte I accesses (at most three, on a typical 32-bit architecture, at most seven,eF on a typical 64-bit architecture).  Alternatively, if one is ambitiousD enough, no byte access is needed at all: the unaligned bytes at the 5 beginning can be read with a single word access, too.   B >You referred to getting the INPUT word aligned.  I can't rememberB >the architectures now, but I have seen ones where unaligned input@ >was supported (but was slow), but where unaligned output wasn't@ >(for the reasons I mentioned).  However, even that is a pain to >implement.t  @ Regardless of the (mis)alignment of the initial input and outputG addresses, it is relatively easy to get BOTH of them aligned, it merely F takes some simple bit shuffling to build an output word from two inputH words.  Been there, done that, so I still don't see your point, assuming you had any in the first place.0   Dan  -- Dan Pop  DESY Zeuthen, RZ group Email: Dan.Pop@ifh.dec   ------------------------------   Date: 15 Jul 2002 15:05:18 GMT( From: nmm1@cus.cam.ac.uk (Nick Maclaren)6 Subject: Re: "Clean" CISC (was Re: McKinley Cometh...)0 Message-ID: <aguobe$m4m$1@pegasus.csx.cam.ac.uk>  * In article <agumdm$cok$1@sunnews.cern.ch>,  Dan.Pop@ifh.de (Dan Pop) writes: |> >K |> >|> The very concept of memory word excludes the possibilities you have   |> >|> mentioned.n |> > |> >Actually, no, it doesn't.y |> r |> Please elaborate.  A Memory word isn't a precisely defined concept, but consider it as-B the unit of memory that is read or written atomically.  There haveA been systems where that can be of arbitrary size, but let's stick- to ones that use (say) 8 bytes.>  ( |> >But I can't imagine why anyone wouldB |> >design a system so bizarre that the relationship was not true. |> iH |> If the relationship was not true, how would you define the concept of |> memory word?f  ? The unit of cache allocation is arbitrary, too, and there is no < theoretical reason why it shouldn't be 123 bytes on a system; with an 8 byte word.  You may prefer the word "perverse" ton  "bizarre", but it could be done.  I |> But there were absolutely no unaligned accesses in the technique I waszD |> describing above, so you were *completely* out of context.  I wasH |> pointing out that aligned accesses are possible after only a few byteL |> accesses (at most three, on a typical 32-bit architecture, at most seven,I |> on a typical 64-bit architecture).  Alternatively, if one is ambitious G |> enough, no byte access is needed at all: the unaligned bytes at the  8 |> beginning can be read with a single word access, too.  A If the input and output have different alignments modulo the wordrB size, this is very expensive.  And you can't do the former without? bringing in the language-related problems I mentioned - in MOSTi? systems, they don't matter for input, but they assuredly do fora output!   E |> >You referred to getting the INPUT word aligned.  I can't remembereE |> >the architectures now, but I have seen ones where unaligned input4C |> >was supported (but was slow), but where unaligned output wasn'taC |> >(for the reasons I mentioned).  However, even that is a pain to@ |> >implement. |>  C |> Regardless of the (mis)alignment of the initial input and outputhJ |> addresses, it is relatively easy to get BOTH of them aligned, it merelyI |> takes some simple bit shuffling to build an output word from two inputyK |> words.  Been there, done that, so I still don't see your point, assumingu" |> you had any in the first place.  < This context of this debate was performance.  Using multiple? registers and bit munging works, yes, but my experience is that ? it gains you little.  Any sane modern architecture handles byted> movement relatively efficiently, in any of the dozens of known ways.:     Regards, Nick Maclaren,* University of Cambridge Computing Service,> New Museums Site, Pembroke Street, Cambridge CB2 3QH, England. Email:  nmm1@cam.ac.uk/ Tel.:  +44 1223 334761    Fax:  +44 1223 334679    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 18:08:54 +0200eE From: Jan C. =?iso-8859-1?Q?Vorbr=FCggen?= <jvorbrueggen@mediasec.de>n6 Subject: Re: "Clean" CISC (was Re: McKinley Cometh...)+ Message-ID: <3D32F396.F7A80FC7@mediasec.de>o  G > Nick, I'll accept that it is possible to setup a system in such a waylI > that it is crucial to not even read any bytes past the terminating null, > byte.i > I > However, IMNSHO if you actually manage to shoot yourself in the foot in > > this way, you really do deserve to bleed all over the floor.  I Why should that be the case? If the terminating null is the last byte on  I a page followed by a page that is set no-access, you will have a problem. L Why do you think the Compaq compilers allow -pipelining (which does software. prefetches) on WNT and Tru64 but not on Linux?   	Jan   ------------------------------   Date: 15 Jul 2002 16:33:17 GMT From: Dan.Pop@ifh.de (Dan Pop)6 Subject: Re: "Clean" CISC (was Re: McKinley Cometh...)* Message-ID: <agutgd$t14$1@sunnews.cern.ch>  j In <3D32F396.F7A80FC7@mediasec.de> Jan C. =?iso-8859-1?Q?Vorbr=FCggen?= <jvorbrueggen@mediasec.de> writes:  H >> Nick, I'll accept that it is possible to setup a system in such a wayJ >> that it is crucial to not even read any bytes past the terminating null >> byte. >> hJ >> However, IMNSHO if you actually manage to shoot yourself in the foot in? >> this way, you really do deserve to bleed all over the floor.  >aJ >Why should that be the case? If the terminating null is the last byte on J >a page followed by a page that is set no-access, you will have a problem.  F But this is not the scenario under discussion.  The question was aboutE the dangers of implementing strcpy by reading one word at a time, not(I by reading *ahead* words beyond the word containing the terminating null.s   Dan  -- Dan Pop@ DESY Zeuthen, RZ group Email: Dan.Pop@ifh.dep   ------------------------------   Date: 15 Jul 2002 17:36:45 GMT( From: nmm1@cus.cam.ac.uk (Nick Maclaren)6 Subject: Re: "Clean" CISC (was Re: McKinley Cometh...)0 Message-ID: <agv17d$17m$1@pegasus.csx.cam.ac.uk>  J In article <agutgd$t14$1@sunnews.cern.ch>, Dan Pop <Dan.Pop@ifh.de> wrote:k >In <3D32F396.F7A80FC7@mediasec.de> Jan C. =?iso-8859-1?Q?Vorbr=FCggen?= <jvorbrueggen@mediasec.de> writes:u >oI >>> Nick, I'll accept that it is possible to setup a system in such a waysK >>> that it is crucial to not even read any bytes past the terminating nulle	 >>> byte.  >>> K >>> However, IMNSHO if you actually manage to shoot yourself in the foot in,@ >>> this way, you really do deserve to bleed all over the floor. >>K >>Why should that be the case? If the terminating null is the last byte on kK >>a page followed by a page that is set no-access, you will have a problem.- >-G >But this is not the scenario under discussion.  The question was aboutjF >the dangers of implementing strcpy by reading one word at a time, notJ >by reading *ahead* words beyond the word containing the terminating null.  C Sigh.  You are STILL thinking in terms of a very restrictive model..F There have been a fair number of machines where pages are of arbitrary? length, with a resolution of a byte, and experience is that theuA facility helps a great deal with reliability and security.  There B was and is no fundamental difficulty in building those on top of a" modern word and cache line design.  A Hint:  pages sizes etc. are characteristics of the virtual memoryi? support, and can be purely internal to the CPU, but 'words' andsD cache line sizes are characteristics of the physical memory support.  @ 20 years ago, people like you were claiming that mainframes were@ dead, and all their characteristics were obsolete.  Well, at theC beginning of the 21st century, mainframe technologies are returningvA in earnest.  It is a pity that people keep reinventing the wheel,eB with a different number of sides each time.  I may yet live to see= capability machines rediscovered for commercial computing :-)t     Regards, Nick Maclaren,* University of Cambridge Computing Service,> New Museums Site, Pembroke Street, Cambridge CB2 3QH, England. Email:  nmm1@cam.ac.uk/ Tel.:  +44 1223 334761    Fax:  +44 1223 334679d   ------------------------------   Date: 15 Jul 2002 17:03:04 GMT From: Dan.Pop@ifh.de (Dan Pop)6 Subject: Re: "Clean" CISC (was Re: McKinley Cometh...)* Message-ID: <aguv88$3n7$1@sunnews.cern.ch>  R In <aguobe$m4m$1@pegasus.csx.cam.ac.uk> nmm1@cus.cam.ac.uk (Nick Maclaren) writes:  + >In article <agumdm$cok$1@sunnews.cern.ch>,a! >Dan.Pop@ifh.de (Dan Pop) writes:a >|> > L >|> >|> The very concept of memory word excludes the possibilities you have  >|> >|> mentioned. >|> >e >|> >Actually, no, it doesn't. >|>  >|> Please elaborate.D >PB >Memory word isn't a precisely defined concept, but consider it asC >the unit of memory that is read or written atomically.  There have B >been systems where that can be of arbitrary size, but let's stick  >to ones that use (say) 8 bytes. > ) >|> >But I can't imagine why anyone wouldtC >|> >design a system so bizarre that the relationship was not true.I >|> I >|> If the relationship was not true, how would you define the concept ofr >|> memory word? >i0 >The unit of cache allocation is arbitrary, too,   Sez who?   >and there is no= >theoretical reason why it shouldn't be 123 bytes on a systemh >with an 8 byte word.e  A The cache serves a very practical purpose, not a theoretical one. G You can remove the cache from an implementation of any architecture I'mo7 familiar with without causing any correctness problems.   G >You may prefer the word "perverse" to "bizarre", but it could be done.n  H We're talking about programming on *real* architectures.  It is possibleA to imagine an architecture that will break most existing programsl$ but this is an exercise in futility.  J >|> But there were absolutely no unaligned accesses in the technique I wasE >|> describing above, so you were *completely* out of context.  I wassI >|> pointing out that aligned accesses are possible after only a few bytenM >|> accesses (at most three, on a typical 32-bit architecture, at most seven,oJ >|> on a typical 64-bit architecture).  Alternatively, if one is ambitiousH >|> enough, no byte access is needed at all: the unaligned bytes at the 9 >|> beginning can be read with a single word access, too.' > B >If the input and output have different alignments modulo the word  >size, this is very expensive.    D On the contrary, it is very cheap (compared to the byte accesses it ? saves).  The IA64 architecture has an instruction that makes it 3 even cheaper.  As I've said: been there, done that.-  $ >And you can't do the former without@ >bringing in the language-related problems I mentioned - in MOST@ >systems, they don't matter for input, but they assuredly do for >output!  = What *relevant* language-related problems have you mentioned?a  E The *only* restriction is that you can't write the last output memory,@ word, if it is a partially filled word, because you may, indeed,A corrupt information that has been stored by a different thread in A the other part of the word, so you have to write it byte by byte.   F >|> >You referred to getting the INPUT word aligned.  I can't rememberF >|> >the architectures now, but I have seen ones where unaligned inputD >|> >was supported (but was slow), but where unaligned output wasn'tD >|> >(for the reasons I mentioned).  However, even that is a pain to >|> >implement.n >|> D >|> Regardless of the (mis)alignment of the initial input and outputK >|> addresses, it is relatively easy to get BOTH of them aligned, it merelylJ >|> takes some simple bit shuffling to build an output word from two inputL >|> words.  Been there, done that, so I still don't see your point, assuming# >|> you had any in the first place.e >y- >This context of this debate was performance.   C Exactly.  On Itanium you gain A LOT by using this technique insteadg of byte accesses.t   >Using multiple @ >registers and bit munging works, yes, but my experience is that >it gains you little.   G My experience is that it gains you a lot.  Especially for memcpy, wherehG you can also read ahead memory words (to absorb memory access latency),e* because you know in advance where to stop.  * >Any sane modern architecture handles byte? >movement relatively efficiently, in any of the dozens of knowng >ways.  F On Itanium, a well implemented C version of memcpy (e.g. the generic CB implementation from glibc -- compiled by gcc, so no fancy softwareA pipelining in the generated code) is several times faster than ans  assembly loop that copies bytes.   Danr -- Dan Popt DESY Zeuthen, RZ group Email: Dan.Pop@ifh.deg   ------------------------------  + Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 07:35:36 +0100 (BST)rF From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Tadimeti=20Keshav?= <keshav_tadimeti@yahoo.co.uk> Subject: AN easier UNZIP@ Message-ID: <20020715063536.11321.qmail@web21003.mail.yahoo.com>   Hi all,c- I found the UNZIP program & directions at thei5 following link to be very simple and helpful compareda* to the ones at OpenVMS's Freeware site and
 PROCESS.COM. v    http://www.djesys.com/unzip.html   Thanks & regards Keshav  2 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!?+ Everything you'll ever need on one web paged- from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts  http://uk.my.yahoo.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 19:00:34 +0010Q% From: paddy.o'brien@zzz.tg.nsw.gov.au  Subject: Re: AN easier UNZIP5 Message-ID: <01KK4UKZ5JMQ000F55@tgmail.tg.nsw.gov.au>e  
 Keshav wrote:C  . >I found the UNZIP program & directions at the6 >following link to be very simple and helpful compared+ >to the ones at OpenVMS's Freeware site and  >PROCESS.COM.  >F! >http://www.djesys.com/unzip.htmlt    N Without any sense of patronising, David always strikes me as a person wishing L to help.  However, I do not understand why the other resources are any more I complicated to understand.  They all seem to emanate from the basic help e in-built to unzip.   Regards, Paddy   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 12:01:29 -0400a From: G Everhart <ge@gce.com> ' Subject: Backing up unix filestructuresg& Message-ID: <3D32F1D9.1070102@gce.com>  6 Backup/physical will back up unix, NT, VMS, RSX, RSTS,7 W9x, or about any other file structure or restore it to:< the same or identical geometry disk already. It doesn't care= at all about file structure, but will back up and restore thes; disk blocks. Normal VMS usage would be to mount the non-VMS| disks /foreign.1  = This is much like using dd in unix, but VMS backup will label$; each block, CRC it, and create XOR groups so it can recover.A from data errors. This latter function is less important on newer39 tape drive types than it was on reel to reel 9track sincer= these have substantial built in error correction, and usually ; will not let you read past a bad spot that breaks their ECCh anyway. Thus a3 $mount/foreign/block=32256/record=512 followed by a  $copy 9 to tape from a disk mounted foreign is apt today to be as - recoverable as a VMS BACKUP/physical saveset..   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 11:13:50 GMTl From: system@SendSpamHere.ORGh8 Subject: RE: comp.os.vms "whiners" make news on Inquirer0 Message-ID: <00A10F57.A242BBA8@SendSpamHere.ORG>  ~ In article <BE56C50EA024184DAF48F0B9A47F5CF4023D92E2@kaoexc01.americas.cpqcorp.net>, "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@hp.com> writes: > H >>>> a flurry of direct correspondence yielded a shift in Sun's position >on Solaris/Intel.<< >rF >Or it could be someone woke up to the idea that its better for a UNIXG >company to have their users run some form of UNIX (Solaris, Linux etc)o >on an x86 than Windows ..  E Now only if HP could wake up to the idea that it's better for them to E have VMS (and VMS customers) than have their customers run to anothers company for some form of unix.   --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COMl            n5   "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?" b   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 16:38:02 GMTc5 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com>*8 Subject: Re: comp.os.vms "whiners" make news on Inquirer2 Message-ID: <KTCY8.23$1H1.105575@news.cpqcorp.net>  ; >there will be no functional enhancement for Open VMS after 6 >2002 and MIPS will move to Intel-based chips by 2004. >s  J Darn.  Should I ask that checkin's for post 2002 releases be backed out of the source pool?   ------------------------------    Date: 15 Jul 2002 08:18:04 -0700! From: jsewell@iu.net (Joe Sewell)e) Subject: Creating a "UNIX disk" under VMSe= Message-ID: <9e311bd1.0207150718.2cfc768e@posting.google.com>t  C I'm working on a program that will need to be able to copy not onlyrF VMS disks (using BACKUP/IMAGE), but also UNIX (Solaris, to be precise)C disks using BACKUP/PHYSICAL.  Assuming I cannot get the appropriatetD group to make a UNIX disk on the media I require, is there any way ID can convince VMS (V7.2-1 with UCX) to reinitialize a disk as a "UNIX  disk" (to use the term loosely)?   ------------------------------    Date: 15 Jul 2002 10:36:17 -0600- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) - Subject: Re: Creating a "UNIX disk" under VMS23 Message-ID: <3hdJj+024Gof@eisner.encompasserve.org>a  a In article <9e311bd1.0207150718.2cfc768e@posting.google.com>, jsewell@iu.net (Joe Sewell) writes:aE > I'm working on a program that will need to be able to copy not only(H > VMS disks (using BACKUP/IMAGE), but also UNIX (Solaris, to be precise)E > disks using BACKUP/PHYSICAL.  Assuming I cannot get the appropriate F > group to make a UNIX disk on the media I require, is there any way IF > can convince VMS (V7.2-1 with UCX) to reinitialize a disk as a "UNIX" > disk" (to use the term loosely)?  A    You could roll your own.  First you have to figure out if it'so:    UFS, JFS, AdvFS, ... (as always with UNIX, it depends).  C    What you can get VMS to do with a UNIX partitioned/file-systems sH    disk is mount if foriegn and present the disk blocks to you.  That's H    good enough for backup/physical both to save and restore, but you'll 1    waste time saving and restoring unused blocks.y   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 08:33:26 -0700r# From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com>b- Subject: RE: Creating a "UNIX disk" under VMSu9 Message-ID: <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIAENHFFAA.tom@kednos.com>r  2 Why not tar and zip it and store as a single file?   >-----Original Message-----i5 >From: Bob Koehler [mailto:koehler@encompasserve.org]c$ >Sent: Monday, July 15, 2002 9:36 AM >To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com. >Subject: Re: Creating a "UNIX disk" under VMS >a >e? >In article <9e311bd1.0207150718.2cfc768e@posting.google.com>, a$ >jsewell@iu.net (Joe Sewell) writes:F >> I'm working on a program that will need to be able to copy not onlyI >> VMS disks (using BACKUP/IMAGE), but also UNIX (Solaris, to be precise)nF >> disks using BACKUP/PHYSICAL.  Assuming I cannot get the appropriateG >> group to make a UNIX disk on the media I require, is there any way ItG >> can convince VMS (V7.2-1 with UCX) to reinitialize a disk as a "UNIX # >> disk" (to use the term loosely)?e >>B >   You could roll your own.  First you have to figure out if it's; >   UFS, JFS, AdvFS, ... (as always with UNIX, it depends).t >sD >   What you can get VMS to do with a UNIX partitioned/file-systems I >   disk is mount if foriegn and present the disk blocks to you.  That's iI >   good enough for backup/physical both to save and restore, but you'll e2 >   waste time saving and restoring unused blocks. >g >---' >Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.r; >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).aA >Version: 6.0.372 / Virus Database: 207 - Release Date: 6/20/2002s >b ---a& Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.: Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).@ Version: 6.0.372 / Virus Database: 207 - Release Date: 6/20/2002   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 11:17:11 GMT - From: "labadie" <labadie_g.tocardsa@decus.fr>g( Subject: Re: Databases x lock management1 Message-ID: <XayY8.6$BK1.237595@news.cpqcorp.net>   ; "Fabio Cardoso" <fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br> wrote in message : news:20020712191816.11592.qmail@web20204.mail.yahoo.com...- > We are having excessive locks in a specifico$ > ORACLE RDB database under OpenVMS.- > We have about 300 users connecting directly 7 > to a database, and when we have some ODBC connections 5 > or even Oracle DB Links the database become locked.s5 > After I stop the process, the database is released.a3 > So, IMHO I believe it is an architecture problem. 1 > Do you use these applications directly attachedo0 > to the database or are  using some TP software7 > or RTR to a massive concurrent acess to the database?e >e7 > Any references in the internet about Database lockinga, > or use if TP softwares to improve the lock > management???o >m   Helloo  J Vms version, Cluster or standalone, Rdb version, number of locks/resources ???   H Use Amds/Availability Manager, and you will have valuable information on that subject  = If you have Alpha Vms 7.2  (I think) or 7.3 (I am sure) , use: ana/sysC sh lock/blocking sh lock/waitinge sh resource/contention   Regardsn   Grard   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 11:05:30 -0500b+ From: Chuck Aaron <caaron@ceris.purdue.edu>  Subject: Delete of .bck file0 Message-ID: <3D32F2CA.669CA544@ceris.purdue.edu>   Group,  ' How do you delete a .bck file off tape?l   Thanks.    ------------------------------    Date: 15 Jul 2002 11:42:31 -0600B From: clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP (Simon Clubley)  Subject: Re: Delete of .bck file3 Message-ID: <8aRkfjrzWc7K@eisner.encompasserve.org>   ^ In article <3D32F2CA.669CA544@ceris.purdue.edu>, Chuck Aaron <caaron@ceris.purdue.edu> writes: > Group, > ) > How do you delete a .bck file off tape?  > 	 > Thanks.e   $ set reading/mode=telepathy3 %SET-W-NOTELEPATHY, error activating telepathy modeh5 -DNA-E-NOTPRESENT, required DNA sequences not presenta $o  < In other words, you haven't provided enough information. :-)  I Do you want to remove one file from a series of files, leaving the others.8 intact or do you want to delete the contents of a tape ?  L If it's the latter, what kind of tape and how paranoid are you/how sensitive
 is the data ?s  K [On old tape drives, it's possible to easily read past the start of a newlyeI initialised tape; on DLT type drives, you need to be in the data recoverys business to do so.]l  H If it's an old tape drive, and you want to really delete the contents ofK the entire tape, INIT it and then write a program to write blocks of random> data to the tape.N   Hope this helps,   Simon.   -- oB Simon Clubley, clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP       + Microsoft: The Lada of the computing world.e   ------------------------------   Date: 15 Jul 2002 07:39:19 GMT( From: nmm1@cus.cam.ac.uk (Nick Maclaren)$ Subject: Re: Doing the Math on Alpha0 Message-ID: <agtu77$sug$1@pegasus.csx.cam.ac.uk>  I In article <lCgY8.56661$WJf1.13401@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>,t" John Smith <a@nonymous.com> wrote:8 >"Rick Kelly" <rmk@roothog.rmkhome.com> wrote in message0 >news:3d30cae4$0$53629$75868355@news.frii.net..., >> Nick Maclaren <nmm1@cus.cam.ac.uk> wrote: >>H >> > There is also very good evidence that the fact that the Alpha salesE >> > figures were poor was not because there was a lack of customers.yE >> > I don't know how many customers were begging to buy, but many ofgC >> > them were wanting to buy in units of dozens, hundreds or more.s >>+ >> Indeed. Look at: http://www.microway.comm >>3 >> They sell Alpha systems based on Samsung boards.  >rE >Correct me if I'm wrong...I seem to recollect that API is now out ofuG >business, and aren't they the manufacturer of the 'Samsung' boards youe. >mentioned? Or is Samsung still manufacturing?  G That is my understanding, too.  Equally importantly, API never producedrF its UP2000+ board (which appeared briefly on its Web site, then softlyE and suddenly vanished away), thus ensuring that its products remainedoC a factor of two below even Compaq's memory bandwidth.  And, as most E of the potential customers I am referring to need memory bandwidth as,1 well as CPU performance, they weren't impressive.3     Regards, Nick Maclaren,* University of Cambridge Computing Service,> New Museums Site, Pembroke Street, Cambridge CB2 3QH, England. Email:  nmm1@cam.ac.uk/ Tel.:  +44 1223 334761    Fax:  +44 1223 334679S   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 12:33:58 GMT>$ From: guppy <guppy99remuv@flash.net> Subject: Re: DS10 shutting downc( Message-ID: <3D32C138.3010702@flash.net>  G Like many of the newer Alphas, the DS10 has 5V available even when the hH power is "off".  It only goes away if the line cord is unplugged, so an F environmental failure, such as a real or imagined fan failure, should H leave an amber led lit on the console.  That not being the case in this I situation, one would suspect the unit either actually lost wall power or vF the power supply has an intermittent problem or bad connection either H internally or to the outside world.  I would pull the supply and put it I back in if no maintenance contract or warranty was in place.  Otherwise, IB just log a service call and ask that the power supply be replaced.   David Mathog wrote:o   > Kevin Handy wrote: >  >>Carl Perkins wrote:t >>F >>>Have you made certain that someone isn't pressing the halt or powerJ >>>button? That gives you instant system death. They are both conveniently- >>>located on the front of the box on a DS10.  >>> H >>>"User stupidity" is not unheard of. Neither is "deliberate sabotage".H >>>For that matter, neither is "the cleaning person unplugged it to plug >>>in the vacuum cleaner". >>>uJ >>>You might check to see if the last timestamps recorded before each bootH >>>indicate hatls at about the same time of the day, and check to see if' >>>it happens on weekends and holidays.n >>>l >>>--- Carlu >>>r? >>Already thought of that, but it occurs at random times, often|= >>late at night when noone is there, sometimes during the day A >>when many people are about.  System is used as a server, nobodyy, >>should be sitting in front of it normally. >> > A > Overheating problems aren't usually like that.  They tend to beh? > more like "run it 2 hours during the day when its warm and ittE > crashes", unless you're right at the hairy edge on the temperature,aA > and you're earlier post suggests that isn't the case.  Probablyu> > some kind of intermittent fault possibly even external, likeA > something nasty on the same circuit.  It probably wouldn't hurtt@ > to take it apart and reseat all the cables, memory, and cards. > 
 > Regards, >  > David Mathog > mathog@caltech.edu >    ------------------------------  + Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 07:57:47 +0100 (BST)eF From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Tadimeti=20Keshav?= <keshav_tadimeti@yahoo.co.uk> Subject: How to kill users@ Message-ID: <20020715065747.45121.qmail@web21008.mail.yahoo.com>  
 Hello all,5 Prior to running VMSINSTAL I check for list of actives# users and intimate them to logoff. r  5 Subsequently, when I do a SH USERS, I find some logino6 sessions still active. But users tell me that they are NOT logged in.   Q1: why does this happen?i) Q2: how can I kill these login processes.o  % NOTE: these are INTERACTIVE SESSIONS.    Thanks & regards Keshav r  2 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!?+ Everything you'll ever need on one web pagea- from News and Sport to Email and Music Chartsv http://uk.my.yahoo.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 10:12:50 +0200t) From: Bart Zorn <B.Zorn@xs4all.nospam.nl>r Subject: Re: How to kill users/ Message-ID: <3D328402.8050308@xs4all.nospam.nl>   1 You should start with supplying more information:    - the output of VMSINSTAL, - the output of SHOW USER/FULL - the output of SHOW SYSTEMn  H Users can THINK they have logged out, for instance by shutting down the G PC from where they logged in. When you have virtual terminals enabled, t. they are actually NOT logged out in this case.   Regards,  	 Bart Zornb   Tadimeti Keshav wrote: > Hello all,7 > Prior to running VMSINSTAL I check for list of activep% > users and intimate them to logoff. o > 7 > Subsequently, when I do a SH USERS, I find some login 8 > sessions still active. But users tell me that they are > NOT logged in. >  > Q1: why does this happen?y+ > Q2: how can I kill these login processes.  > ' > NOTE: these are INTERACTIVE SESSIONS.r >  > Thanks & regards	 > Keshav   > 4 > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!?- > Everything you'll ever need on one web pagee/ > from News and Sport to Email and Music Chartsa > http://uk.my.yahoo.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 10:15:31 +0200 9 From: Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com>8 Subject: Re: How to kill users' Message-ID: <3D3284A3.F3F66516@aaa.com>i   Well, a few possible answers :   - The users are lying to you.o% - The users don't know how to logoff.r  = But seriously, take a walk over to this users and ask them toh) logout and see for yourself what they do.F  6 Also note that a terminal with the USERNAME: prompt is5 counted as a interactive user, even if the user isn't_ "logged in"_  : And, depending on what you are going to install, maybe you; don't need to logoff the users. Is it the Rdb kit ? Is thisc< the first install of Rdb ? If so, I'd just run INTSTALL. The? only thing that might go wrong is the update of the system HELPe. library *if* some user is at the HELP> prompt.  5 Now, to answer the subject, check "$ HELP STOP /IDE".e     Jan-Erik Sderholm.f   Tadimeti Keshav wrote: >  > Hello all,7 > Prior to running VMSINSTAL I check for list of activet$ > users and intimate them to logoff. > 7 > Subsequently, when I do a SH USERS, I find some login 8 > sessions still active. But users tell me that they are > NOT logged in. >  > Q1: why does this happen?o+ > Q2: how can I kill these login processes.m > ' > NOTE: these are INTERACTIVE SESSIONS.e >  > Thanks & regards > Keshav > 4 > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!?- > Everything you'll ever need on one web page / > from News and Sport to Email and Music Chartsf > http://uk.my.yahoo.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 19:06:25 +0010 % From: paddy.o'brien@zzz.tg.nsw.gov.aue Subject: Re: How to kill users5 Message-ID: <01KK4US8C35E000F55@tgmail.tg.nsw.gov.au>a  
 Keshav wrote:f   >Hello all,b6 >Prior to running VMSINSTAL I check for list of active$ >users and intimate them to logoff.  >i6 >Subsequently, when I do a SH USERS, I find some login7 >sessions still active. But users tell me that they areX >NOT logged in.a >e >Q1: why does this happen?* >Q2: how can I kill these login processes. > & >NOTE: these are INTERACTIVE SESSIONS. >l >Thanks & regardss  K Q1, I often find that eXcursions/reflections may lose network connecticity aN and are (ostensibly) logged out at the PC but are still sessions/processes on  the "big box".   Q2, stop/id={pid}   
 Regards Paddyd   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 19:30:46 +0010s% From: paddy.o'brien@zzz.tg.nsw.gov.au- Subject: Re: How to kill users5 Message-ID: <01KK4VMFX682000F5S@tgmail.tg.nsw.gov.au>c   I wrote (and blush):  L >Q1, I often find that eXcursions/reflections may lose network connecticity L                                                              ^^connectivity^L >and are (ostensibly) logged out at the PC but are still sessions/processes  on s >the "big box".a     Regards, Paddy   ------------------------------  + Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 09:18:58 -0700 (PDT)i. From: Fabio Cardoso <fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br>) Subject: HP Lan Console x Itanium serversc@ Message-ID: <20020715161858.28800.qmail@web20209.mail.yahoo.com>   Just imagining:b  2 As HP Itanium machines will run HP-UX and OpenVMS - in the same box (I hope) , and to mantain theo4 compatibility  of HP-UX environments, I imagine that4 HP will develop a Lan Console for Itanium (for HP-UX4 use). So, it could be used for OpenVMS machines too.  5 Anyone from the PA-RISC x Alpha x Itanium engineeringe here to answer my question ????      Regardsl   FC e   =====o ========================== Fbio dos Santos Cardoso OpenVMS System Manager Rio de Janeiro - Brazil$ fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br ==========================  2 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!?, Yahoo! Autos - Get free new car price quotes http://autos.yahoo.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 17:38:31 +0100-E From: Jamie Stallwood <this.no.work.try.something.else@project76.net>(8 Subject: Is it possible to write UUDecode/Encode in DCL?8 Message-ID: <6ju5jucnfst53hk8hlqs6fn131g15mq2sk@4ax.com>   An easy question :)a   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 18:51:31 +0200U9 From: Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com>n< Subject: Re: Is it possible to write UUDecode/Encode in DCL?' Message-ID: <3D32FD93.8A357947@aaa.com>q  3 I'm pretty sure it could be done. At least I see no   reason it shouldn't be possible.  A Many things *could* be done in DCL, but isn't for many reasons...-  * May I ask what made you ask the question ?   Jan-Erik Sderholm.r   Jamie Stallwood wrote: >  > An easy question :) 1 > Is it possible to write UUDecode/Encode in DCL?a   ------------------------------    Date: 15 Jul 2002 19:05:25 +0200+ From: huber@vms.mppmu.mpg.de (Joseph Huber) < Subject: Re: Is it possible to write UUDecode/Encode in DCL?+ Message-ID: <qNXQ+SczL69P@vms.mppmu.mpg.de>u   In article <6ju5jucnfst53hk8hlqs6fn131g15mq2sk@4ax.com>, Jamie Stallwood <this.no.work.try.something.else@project76.net> writes: > An easy question :)q  & Probably yes, You can write it in DCL.+ But why not use the programs written in C ?s  @ If You have HP/Compaq/Digital TCPIP services, then simply define $ uudecode :== $TCPIP$UUDECODE $ uuencode :== $TCPIP$UUENCODE  K Or look into the various freeware archives for versions of uuencode/decode.h   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 08:11:43 GMTn. From: peter@langstoeger.at (Peter LANGSTOEGER)* Subject: Re: Itanium II Another Shoe Drops4 Message-ID: <3tvY8.250145$IR.5184386@news.chello.at>  h In article <d7791aa1.0207141823.17fbe27f@posting.google.com>, bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski) writes:D >that would be total stupidity as hp knows they must keep around vaxD >support until itanium is ready ... that is where they hope they endF >up, on itanoum vms!  The move you describe above would be suicide and >plain stupid!  E "suicide" and "plain stupid" are the words we already used twice (for9K Digital and Compaq) in the past. But despite the fact that we said them, itrM indeed happened, as you surely know. Question remains, is HP also so stupid ?    -- l Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER:% Network and OpenVMS system specialist  E-mail  peter@langstoeger.atP A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm looking for (a) Network _and_ VMS Job(s)   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 15:05:02 GMTg# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> * Subject: Re: Itanium II Another Shoe DropsI Message-ID: <ywBY8.66101$WJf1.47011@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>u  ; "Peter LANGSTOEGER" <peter@langstoeger.at> wrote in message . news:3tvY8.250145$IR.5184386@news.chello.at...? > In article <d7791aa1.0207141823.17fbe27f@posting.google.com>,n* bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski) writes:F > >that would be total stupidity as hp knows they must keep around vaxF > >support until itanium is ready ... that is where they hope they endH > >up, on itanoum vms!  The move you describe above would be suicide and > >plain stupid! >iG > "suicide" and "plain stupid" are the words we already used twice (forrJ > Digital and Compaq) in the past. But despite the fact that we said them, itF > indeed happened, as you surely know. Question remains, is HP also so stupid ?   That depends on:K a) How busy the old-HP people are and whether they have time to dig out the  facts for themselves.-J b) How much they rely on former Digital/Compaq people who have no love for VMS.L c) How much they rely on former Digital/Compaq people who do care about VMS.& d) What their view are on Windows/*ix.8 e) Whether they believe that VMS can be grown or milked.  F Smart people learn from their own mistakes. Wise people learn from the mistakes of others.e   ------------------------------    Date: 15 Jul 2002 04:34:51 -0700! From: soterro@yahoo.com (Soterro)b/ Subject: Re: List the processes using a mailboxr= Message-ID: <d5440555.0207150334.14ddff1d@posting.google.com>t  B I already downloaded the utility, I just wasn't very eager to jump+ into installing things :) (my problem here)e  
 Thanks a lot,e   Sorinc   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 14:46:51 GMTs5 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com>e4 Subject: Re: McKinley tops SpecFP AND SpecInt charts2 Message-ID: <vfBY8.16$tL1.259198@news.cpqcorp.net>  I VMS is in the "division" that builds enterprise servers (like SuperDome),fJ and is in the same branch of the or chart that produces HP-UX.  NSK on theL other hand needs custom hardware, and is as a result of history, pretty muchK self contained.  The fact that we are also in the Alpha/Tru64 orgainizationsK reflects the fact that we were part of that organization, we still are veryaF much involved in Alpha, and it is still managed here in the northeast.  I I wouldn't read anything more than that.  Over time, I expect VMS will besL organized as appropriate as Alpha operations and Tru64 operations wind down.    = JF Mezei wrote in message <3D305556.4A78FD08@videotron.ca>...6 >Robert Deininger wrote:G >> To be more accurate, you should say that VMS was already in the same I >> organization as Alpha and Tru64.  VMS wasn't "put" there by HP, it wasD >> left there. >iL >Again, another "we will continue what Compaq had begun" mentality.  Problem is5 >that what Compaq had begun wasn't very good for VMS.  >eL >You will note that NSK got its own division. It used to be part of the sameI >group as VMS and Tru64 at Compaq.  I would have felt much more confidentr about E >VMS if HP had announced that later on, VMS would be moved to anotheri division >once it runs on Itanium.e   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 14:57:59 GMTi# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> 4 Subject: Re: McKinley tops SpecFP AND SpecInt chartsI Message-ID: <XpBY8.66071$WJf1.60786@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>e  / "GreyCloud" <cumulus@mist.com> wrote in message " news:3D325F95.8FF4EE8E@mist.com... >o8 > True... I'm afraid tho, just like the HP printer line,< > they'll start putting lipstick, gloss and glitter on their > products like avon does.  G I wouldn't care if they make Alpha's look like David Bowie in his 'glamoE rock' days, or Elton John in his 'over the top' days, as long as theyfH marketed the hell out of VMS and they increased sales. Maybe that's whatF they have to do in order to reach the 'younger' generation of IT guys.    D On the other hand, to reach current senior managers and execs.......                           VMSC!       So reliable. So dependable.sH It's like accounting before Andersen.          (c) 2002, John Smith. All rights reserved.   ------------------------------    Date: 10 Jul 2002 23:45:36 -0400. From: Da Beave <beave-removethis-@vistech.net>' Subject: Re: Microvax gathering dust...i4 Message-ID: <slrnaiq3k5.7ss.beave@bundy.vistech.net>   Robert Deininger wrote:t? > In article <45126e60.0207030820.19efe7d6@posting.google.com>,e/ > srp336@getcoactive.com (Steve Pfister) wrote:e > C >>Unfortunately, montagar.com is sold out of the Vax hobbyist kits.LD >>There's auctions on eBay every once in a great while, but I alwaysC >>seem to miss them. Are there any other sources for OpenVMS media?e >>2 >>Or should I sell it and look for Alphas on eBay? > F > You could do both.  Respectable alphas show up on ebay all the time," > covering a wide range of prices.  4 	That actually brings up a question.  It looks like A montagar has been out of the kits for a little while now.  Lucklyo for me,  I've got both!   ; 	This brings up a question.  I have a friend that has a VAX A and he was looking to load the hobbyist kit for grins and to do at@ little bit of personal R&D (Play... non-comercial use).  He asksA me,  "hey,  can I have a copy of your CD".  I normally don't feelMC bad in saying, "no man,  but you can get it for $30.00".  I do thiseA for two reason.  1> Support the hobbyist program (its only $30.00.E bucks! And look what you get!).  2>  I have a pretty good feeling it -; would probably violate my license agreement as a hobbyist.    ; 	He calls me back,  and tells me its "sold out".  I check, c@ and sure enough,  it is.  He asks for a copy again,  and  now I G feel like a ass,  because I have to just say "no".   He's out of luck.    : 	My thinking is,  if montagar is going to continue the VAXC hobbyist program,  then he'll have to wait.. tough luck.  However,  C if they are not,  it would really be nice to be able to hand him a iC copy (without pentalities) of mine.   Any chance of this happening?rC Probably not.  If montagar cannot for whatever reason produce CDs, t- the a lot of VAX's will end up in the trash. u   	Just a little ramble..    					- Beave   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 13:48:00 -0400s* From: WILLIAM WEBB <WWEBB1@email.usps.gov>' Subject: RE: Microvax gathering dust...e- Message-ID: <0033000072556571000002L012*@MHS>>  / =0A    Why don't you *lend* him your CD for thei     install?  0     As long as he's got hobbyist licenses, there     shouldn't be an issue.  
     WWWebb   -----Original Message-----/ From: Info-VAX-Request@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNETo# Sent: Monday, July 15, 2002 1:35 PM B To: Webb, William W Raleigh, NC; Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNET' Subject: RE: Microvax gathering dust...>     Robert Deininger wrote:e? > In article <45126e60.0207030820.19efe7d6@posting.google.com>,a/ > srp336@getcoactive.com (Steve Pfister) wrote:f >>C >>Unfortunately, montagar.com is sold out of the Vax hobbyist kits.lD >>There's auctions on eBay every once in a great while, but I alwaysC >>seem to miss them. Are there any other sources for OpenVMS media?e >>2 >>Or should I sell it and look for Alphas on eBay? >uF > You could do both.  Respectable alphas show up on ebay all the time," > covering a wide range of prices.  7      That actually brings up a question.  It looks like A montagar has been out of the kits for a little while now.  Lucklyt for me,  I've got both!o  ?      This brings up a question.  I have a friend that has a VAXkA and he was looking to load the hobbyist kit for grins and to do a @ little bit of personal R&D (Play... non-comercial use).  He asksA me,  "hey,  can I have a copy of your CD".  I normally don't feeldC bad in saying, "no man,  but you can get it for $30.00".  I do this-A for two reason.  1> Support the hobbyist program (its only $30.00 D bucks! And look what you get!).  2>  I have a pretty good feeling it: would probably violate my license agreement as a hobbyist.  >      He calls me back,  and tells me its "sold out".  I check,? and sure enough,  it is.  He asks for a copy again,  and  now IfF feel like a ass,  because I have to just say "no".   He's out of luck.  >      My thinking is,  if montagar is going to continue the VAXB hobbyist program,  then he'll have to wait.. tough luck.  However,B if they are not,  it would really be nice to be able to hand him aC copy (without pentalities) of mine.   Any chance of this happening?YB Probably not.  If montagar cannot for whatever reason produce CDs,, the a lot of VAX's will end up in the trash.        Just a little ramble..-  !                          - Beave=2   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 15:01:07 GMT:5 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com>l Subject: Re: Mousewheeld2 Message-ID: <TsBY8.18$EU1.580729@news.cpqcorp.net>  " You'll need a TPU expert for this.   Spud Demon wrote in message ...SB >"Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> writes in articleK <tPgX8.25$VY6.406540@news.cpqcorp.net> dated Thu, 11 Jul 2002 14:42:33 GMT: / >>Try TPU SET (MOUSE,OFF) and see what happens.h >cJ >Clicks stop working, and the wheel doesn't cause the message any more (or# >anything else) in that TPU window.l > > >I guess what I want to know is how you do the equivalent of a eve_define_key' >for X-windows mouse buttons and wheel.o >sI >>> I'm running Mozilla 1.1A on VMS 7.3 displayed on a Mac running Yellowh Dogs1 >>> Linux.  Guess what -- the mousewheel works!!!o >>>sL >>> Now if it would just work in TPU I'd be set.  Anybody know how to set it >>upL >>> to scroll?  When I turn the wheel it says "No user mouse button defined,+ >>> completing the default release action."e > $ >--Spud Demon thundermaker$yahoo.com9 >Posted from my own damn Alpha in my own damn living room-  >with my own damn software (tnr)   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 12:33:44 +01008U From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <andrew_nospam.harrison_remove_this@sun#.com>e4 Subject: Re: Only 20% drop in VMS systems (was: wow)0 Message-ID: <agubuo$go1$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   Main, Kerry wrote:  	 > Andrew,s > J > <<< I can produce examples of apps that don't scale at all or scale veryJ > badly as well, but since these don't would not scale in a cluster either > we can discard them.>>>g > F > Sigh .. One more time - It depends on the application. Don't you getI > tired of making grandiose statements that are not based in reality? SMP > > and clustered applications are two different strategies and  >     ? Akkk, the only person making grandiose statements is you Kerry,t< come on get a grip and please for your own sake and the sake< of the OpenVMS ambassador program which apparently you are a  member of think before you post.     > F >>>>Very few people would suggest as you are trying to do that because >>>>G > you have don the foundation course that you don't then need to do thes > layers on top.>>>s > I > Yada, yada yada .. I stated training was always a nice to have, but not2H > always practical for many reasons. I take it by your response that SunI > is making Solaris 9 training mandatory for any existing Solaris 8 Admin_C > (even if they are experienced) before they can move to Solaris 9?v > E > Or perhaps more likely, as is the case with Oracle, that it is only  > "recommended"? > H > <<< ... the platform is supposed to host being adminned by people withA > Oracle for Dummies or OPS for Dummies in their back pocket. >>>i > J > So, are you calling experienced DBA's that don't have all the officially& > recommend vendor courses "dummies"?  >     9 No but then that wasn't what you origionally said was it.o  = You suggested that reading a manual was all you really needed A to admin an OPS cluster. You never mentioned long term experiencee did you.   More spin on your part.?    H > My view is that I will always vote for an experienced DBA on one of myE > teams over one that has all the "official" training, but lacks realr
 > experience.l    < But Kerry that is not what you were arguing as you know. Any< admin who hasn't ever adminned OPS cannot by definition have any experience.    Regardsa Andrew Harrison-     >  > 	 > Regards  >  >  > Kerry Main > Senior Consultantm > Hewlett-Packard Canada# > Consulting & Integration Servicese > Voice: 613-592-4660M > Fax   : 613-591-4477 > Email: Kerry.Main@hp.com >  >  > -----Original Message-----) > From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancyc7 > [mailto:andrew_nospam.harrison_remove_this@sun#.com]   > Sent: July 12, 2002 10:09 AM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com 6 > Subject: Re: Only 20% drop in VMS systems (was: wow) >  >  >  >  > Main, Kerry wrote: >  >  >>Andrew, Andrew ..a >> >> >>H >>>>>Of course you have also forgotten the other rule of consolidations, >>>>>u >>>>>HA >>its better to consolidate on like version DBMS's so if the old .H >>platform is running 8.1.6/8.0.5 etc then its better to consolidated to >> > = >>8.1.6 or whatever the version is on the target platform.<<<i >> >>Better? Sure. Required? No.i >>D >>As you know, you can run different versions of Oracle on the same H >>system. You can also use partitioning on systems that support it (like >> > G >>GS Series) to run different OS / Oracle instances. In the case of GS  E >>Series systems, you can also use OpenVMS Galaxy to share CPU's and sH >>memory between the OS instances. You can also use the shared memory in >> > = >>OpenVMS Galaxy as an extremely fast cluster communications _( >>interconnect between Oracle instances. >>H >><<< The 70% number is what Oracle consultants that I have delt with on >> > A >>9i RAC put as being the upper bound for scalability for RAC.>>>  >>G >>Now, lets see .. Are you saying a 50+ cpu SMP system will scale 100% sH >>with each additional CPU added? Ok, you and I both know that's not the >> > E >>case. Ok, how about 85%? Perhaps - if tuned optimally. More likely -B >>75-85% is a more real life target, but it really depends on the  >>application workload mix.c >> >> >  >  > Well lets examine this claim.d > F > I can produce a ream of examples with actual scalability numbers forJ > machines going up to 70+ CPU's. These are all SMP/DBMS examples where noH > coding changes have been made to make the app scale. Scalability is inH > the high 90s%. Prior to the F15000 we had similar experiences with the > E10K with 60+ CPU'sn > 8 > Your experience of scalability on large SMP systems is8 > coloured by the fact that you are using GS's. With all9 > their problems 85% is probably optimistic but that doesH2 > not mean that all SMP systems are like a GS box. > 8 > I can produce examples of apps that don't scale at all4 > or scale very badly as well, but since these don't: > would not scale in a cluster either we can discard them. >  >  > . >>So, it looks like we are not that far apart. >> >> >  > 8 > So it looks like we are still as far appart as we were: > before. And the possible 70% scalability for Oracle in a > cluster is after tuning. >  >  >  >>:-)e >>E >><<< I am sure that isn't really the case and I am sure that in youriD >>haste to produce a justification for you claims you have abandoned >>normal HP practice.>>> n >>F >>Now, now - I was talking about experienced Customer Oracle DBA's not; >>absolutely requiring OPS training .. But, you knew that. h >> >> >  > > > Yes I did realise that ! Still doesn't explain your apparent: > willingness to sanction people adminning a HA system who > have not training to do so.k > < > Most training is layered, Oracle OPS layered on Oracle DBA> > UNIX systems admin layered on UNIX user etc. Very few people= > would suggest as you are trying to do that because you havea> > don the foundation course that you don't then need to do the > layers on top. > > > As I said you and jlsue are wonderfull, platform "solutions"? > that arn't supported by the ISV that the platform is supposed-= > to host being adminned by people with Oracle for Dummies oriA > OPS for Dummies in their back pocket. I am sure that this isn't A > HP's actual policy however much your posts tend to suggest that- > it is. > ? > Incedentally you really should try reading Oracles own advice@= > on the subject. The course material for RAC is pretty clears; > and it also requires a course basis which is not just thee7 > basic DBA set. You have to have been on the Oracle 9io9 > Performance Tuning Course prior to the RAC course, this.6 > is not a requirment for normal DBA's and should help9 > you understand where deploying RAC may well differ from ( > a standard single instance deployment. >  >  >  >  > 	 > Regardss >  > Andrew Harrison  >  >  >    ------------------------------    Date: 14 Jul 2002 23:58:49 -07003 From: asn1@rd.francetelecom.com (Olivier Dubuisson) 7 Subject: Re: OpenSSL and certificates concept questionsd= Message-ID: <70aaeb1e.0207142258.7d6400dc@posting.google.com>i  \ Rich Jordan <duodec@speakeasy.net> wrote in message news:<3D30A52E.1080706@speakeasy.net>... > Larry Kilgallen wrote:[ > > In article <3D2FB543.9020500@speakeasy.net>, Rich Jordan <duodec@speakeasy.net> writes:  > >  > > 8 > >>Who designed the x.509 certs and the SSL API anyway? > >  > > H > > I don't know about the SSL API, but the x.509 certificates are quiteH > > nice to work with.  The trick is that you should not try to code forI > > them by hand.  Use an ASN.1 tool that generates code in your favoriteo > > programming language.p > . > Are there any such available under OpenVMS?   9 Yes. At least I know of OSS Nokalva (http://www.oss.com).    O. Dubuisson   ------------------------------    Date: 15 Jul 2002 05:33:52 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)n7 Subject: Re: OpenSSL and certificates concept questionst3 Message-ID: <IZBCV5pfvw5S@eisner.encompasserve.org>   s In article <70aaeb1e.0207142258.7d6400dc@posting.google.com>, asn1@rd.francetelecom.com (Olivier Dubuisson) writes:s^ > Rich Jordan <duodec@speakeasy.net> wrote in message news:<3D30A52E.1080706@speakeasy.net>... >> Larry Kilgallen wrote: \ >> > In article <3D2FB543.9020500@speakeasy.net>, Rich Jordan <duodec@speakeasy.net> writes: >> > k >> > D9 >> >>Who designed the x.509 certs and the SSL API anyway?u >> > U >> >  I >> > I don't know about the SSL API, but the x.509 certificates are quiteeI >> > nice to work with.  The trick is that you should not try to code foraJ >> > them by hand.  Use an ASN.1 tool that generates code in your favorite >> > programming language. >> p/ >> Are there any such available under OpenVMS? . > ; > Yes. At least I know of OSS Nokalva (http://www.oss.com).  >  > O. Dubuisson  > And if you want a good _book_ regarding ASN.1, look for one by? Olivier Dubuisson.  It is available in English, translated fromc@ the French.  There is another good book by John Larmouth.  These& people are both real experts on ASN.1.  = If I included ISBN numbers, you would know this post was fromH4 an imposter whose library is more orderly than mine.   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 14:38:54 GMTm5 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> J Subject: Re: OpenVMS on third-party platforms (was: Re: VMS port delayed!)2 Message-ID: <28BY8.13$6T1.488609@news.cpqcorp.net>  = JF Mezei wrote in message <3D304D10.E6A94ED3@videotron.ca>...M >oJ >Also, at this point in time, I have not seen authoritative documents that= >clearly state that IA64 allows VMS to implement all the samerJ >memory/process/whatever protections that were available on VAX and Alpha. IfJ >some compromises have to be made in porting VMS to IA64, then hackers may >eventually find them.  H IIRC there are a couple seldom used combinations that do not immediatelyH fall out, however should we find that they must be done, IA64 provides aF mechanism which we can make them function.  This should not be a major concern for anyone.    ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 14:49:18 GMTE# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> J Subject: Re: OpenVMS on third-party platforms (was: Re: VMS port delayed!)G Message-ID: <OhBY8.11112$WsS.1678@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>n  5 "Bob Ceculski" <bob@instantwhip.com> wrote in messagei7 news:d7791aa1.0207141838.667b7197@posting.google.com...M > > J > > Me, too. The doctor says I gotta try get my weight down and keep a lid > > on my temper.  >t- > some good Polish cooking will do just that!-  E Your place...this Saturday...what time?   I'll bring the WYBOROWA !!!o   ------------------------------   Date: 15 Jul 2002 15:12:18 GMT( From: nmm1@cus.cam.ac.uk (Nick Maclaren)J Subject: Re: OpenVMS on third-party platforms (was: Re: VMS port delayed!)0 Message-ID: <aguooi$mi3$1@pegasus.csx.cam.ac.uk>  2 In article <28BY8.13$6T1.488609@news.cpqcorp.net>,7 "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> writes:u@ |> JF Mezei wrote in message <3D304D10.E6A94ED3@videotron.ca>... |> >M |> >Also, at this point in time, I have not seen authoritative documents thati@ |> >clearly state that IA64 allows VMS to implement all the sameM |> >memory/process/whatever protections that were available on VAX and Alpha.  |> IfcM |> >some compromises have to be made in porting VMS to IA64, then hackers may  |> >eventually find them.c |>  K |> IIRC there are a couple seldom used combinations that do not immediately K |> fall out, however should we find that they must be done, IA64 provides atI |> mechanism which we can make them function.  This should not be a majore |> concern for anyone.  ? If they are seldom used and not heavily used when they are usedu? then, yes, such things are easily possible by interrupt.  But I = have been told this once, too often about floating-point, andu> discovered that a very few programs run ten or a hundred times@ as slowly.  The users of such programs quite reasonably say that the new system doesn't work.  D If there is a mechanism for fixing up such things without interrupt,B then I missed it and should be fascinated (seriously) to know what it is!     Regards, Nick Maclaren,* University of Cambridge Computing Service,> New Museums Site, Pembroke Street, Cambridge CB2 3QH, England. Email:  nmm1@cam.ac.uk/ Tel.:  +44 1223 334761    Fax:  +44 1223 334679y   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 17:07:54 GMTy5 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com>DJ Subject: Re: OpenVMS on third-party platforms (was: Re: VMS port delayed!)2 Message-ID: <KjDY8.24$nW1.656538@news.cpqcorp.net>  . I believe the method involved protection keys.  " Nick Maclaren wrote in message ... >u3 >In article <28BY8.13$6T1.488609@news.cpqcorp.net>,08 >"Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> writes:A >|> JF Mezei wrote in message <3D304D10.E6A94ED3@videotron.ca>...  >|> >tI >|> >Also, at this point in time, I have not seen authoritative documents  thatA >|> >clearly state that IA64 allows VMS to implement all the samedG >|> >memory/process/whatever protections that were available on VAX and. Alpha. >|> IfJ >|> >some compromises have to be made in porting VMS to IA64, then hackers mayn >|> >eventually find them. >|>fL >|> IIRC there are a couple seldom used combinations that do not immediatelyL >|> fall out, however should we find that they must be done, IA64 provides aJ >|> mechanism which we can make them function.  This should not be a major >|> concern for anyone.o >r@ >If they are seldom used and not heavily used when they are used@ >then, yes, such things are easily possible by interrupt.  But I> >have been told this once, too often about floating-point, and? >discovered that a very few programs run ten or a hundred timestA >as slowly.  The users of such programs quite reasonably say that  >the new system doesn't work.i >rE >If there is a mechanism for fixing up such things without interrupt,gC >then I missed it and should be fascinated (seriously) to know whatn >it is!l >. >o	 >Regards,  >Nick Maclaren,e+ >University of Cambridge Computing Service,o? >New Museums Site, Pembroke Street, Cambridge CB2 3QH, England.o >Email:  nmm1@cam.ac.uko0 >Tel.:  +44 1223 334761    Fax:  +44 1223 334679   ------------------------------    Date: 15 Jul 2002 01:39:29 -0700+ From: kor.rinkens@vodafone.nl (Kor Rinkens)e1 Subject: Re: oracleRDb on Open VMS install errorsc= Message-ID: <f6681f0c.0207150039.2d8e6be9@posting.google.com>t  \ David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> wrote in message news:<3D3045CA.4040105@tsoft-inc.com>... > Tadimeti Keshav wrote: >  > > Hi all,,6 > > The zip file I downloaded contains the foll. fies:. > > 	Directory SYS$SYSDEVICE:[USER.KESHAV.ORD] > > 	  > > 	JRDBAMVF070.A;1     > > 	RDBAMVF070.A;1      > > 	RDBAMVF070.B;1      > > 	RDBAMVF070.C;1      > > 	RDBAMVF070.D;1      > > 	RDBAMVF070.E;1      > > 	RDBSGA_70_AMV.BCK;1 > > 	SQLSRVAMVF070.A;1   > > 	SQSCLIA070.A;1      > > 	h > > 	Total of 9 files. > > 	r > > 	-: > > On the technet site, there is no Installation guide in0 > > the same download page as the ZIP file. So I3 > > downloaded the installation manual from the RDBc" > > documentation site for RDB 7.13 > > I downloaded this ZIP file by right clicking in': > > Internet Explorer and saving to Windows. I unziped the9 > > ZIP file on Windows and did an FTP to the VMS machinei > > Ds10 in BINARY mode. Y >  > K > Files in a ZIP archive *MAY* still retain their attributes.  IF they are EP > un-ziped on windoz, they will definitely lose them.  Not saying that it would Q > work Ok, but moving the archive to VMS and then un-zipping might be a solution.  >  > 6 > > Yes, I did invoke @SYS$UPDATE:VMSINSTAL RDBAMVF070& > > DKA100:[USR,KESHAV.ORD] OPTIONS N 1 > > where RDBAMVF070 is the name of the .A file. p > >  > > THe error I get is: 8 > > %BACKUP-E-INVRECSIZ, invalid record size in save set8 > > %BACKUP-E-INVBLKSIZE, invalid block size in save set8 > > %BACKUP-E-INVRECSIZ, invalid record size in save set8 > > %BACKUP-E-INVBLKSIZE, invalid block size in save set8 > > %BACKUP-E-INVRECSIZ, invalid record size in save set8 > > %BACKUP-E-INVBLKSIZE, invalid block size in save set8 > > %BACKUP-E-INVRECSIZ, invalid record size in save set- > > %BACKUP-W-NOFILES, no files selected from,0 > > SYS$SYSDEVICE:[USER.KESHAV.ORD]RDBAMVF070.A;2 > > %VMSINSTAL-E-NOSAVESET, Save set  A  cannot be
 > > restored.  > >  >  > N > The error message is correct, and indicates your problem.  BACKUP save sets S > usually have a recordsize greater than 512 bytes.  Many savesets written to disk sQ > have a recordsize of 32256.  Others can have a smaller recordsize.  An example:d > 5 > Z.BCK;1                       File ID:  (8833,12,0) 2 > Size:          126/126        Owner:    [CANADA]$ > Created:   13-JUL-2002 11:01:29.11( > Revised:   13-JUL-2002 11:01:29.85 (1) > Expires:   <None specified>e! > Backup:    <No backup recorded>s > Effective: <None specified>h > Recording: <None specified>s  > File organization:  Sequential > Shelved state:      Online" > Caching attribute:  WritethroughH > File attributes:    Allocation: 126, Extend: 0, Global buffer count: 0' >                      No version limitl5 > Record format:      Fixed length 32256 byte records  > Record attributes:  None > RMS attributes:     None > Journaling enabled: None? > File protection:    System:RWED, Owner:RWED, Group:RE, World:  > Access Cntrl List:  None > Client attributes:  None > P > Note the record format.  If you do a DIR/FULL on one of your savesets, you'll N > probably see a recordsize of 512.  This is simple enough to change.  Do the  > following for each saveset:p > ' > $ SET FILE/ATT=(LRL:32256) <filename>e > O > You should then be able to test for appropriate recordsize using BACKUP/LIST.b >  >  > Dave   or    ? $ SET FILE/ATT=(RFM:FIX,LRL:''SIZE',MRS:''SIZE') ''SAVESETNAME'   C FOR SIZE YOU CAN FILL IN MORE VALUES (DEPENDS ON HOW THE SAVESET ISh CREATED) OFTEN USED IS  
 SIZE=32256	 SIZE=8192"
 SIZE=16384   SO TRY WITH AN s   $BACKUP/LI ''SAVESETNAME' /SAV t  : IF YOU SEE FILES, IF SO THEN YOUR FILE SETTING IS CORRECT.   Regards Kor Rinkens    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 11:28:47 +0200n) From: Bart Zorn <B.Zorn@xs4all.nospam.nl>a1 Subject: Re: oracleRDb on Open VMS install errorse- Message-ID: <3D3295CF.90608@xs4all.nospam.nl>n   Kor Rinkens wrote:^ > David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> wrote in message news:<3D3045CA.4040105@tsoft-inc.com>... >  >>Tadimeti Keshav wrote: >>   	[Snip]  >  >  > or   > A > $ SET FILE/ATT=(RFM:FIX,LRL:''SIZE',MRS:''SIZE') ''SAVESETNAME'  > E > FOR SIZE YOU CAN FILL IN MORE VALUES (DEPENDS ON HOW THE SAVESET ISa > CREATED) OFTEN USED IS >  > SIZE=32256 > SIZE=8192- > SIZE=16384 >  > SO TRY WITH AN   > ! > $BACKUP/LI ''SAVESETNAME' /SAV m > < > IF YOU SEE FILES, IF SO THEN YOUR FILE SETTING IS CORRECT. >  > Regards Kor Rinkens   G In your examples you use a peculiar number of single quote characters. RH Did you ever try these examples, assuming that SIZE and SAVESETNAME are  defined symbols?  C The BACKUP/LIST 'SAVESETNAME'/SAVE will almost always tell you the t@ correct SIZE, because the error message comes after the saveset ! information summary is displayed.s  I Also, I don't think you need to set the MRS attribute. Just the LRL will o do fine.  	 Bart Zorn.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 20:05:21 +0930u/ From: Mark Daniel <mark.daniel@wasd.vsm.com.au>n> Subject: Re: PW600au problem (probably h/w) - long and tedious/ Message-ID: <3D32A569.7DA97C3B@wasd.vsm.com.au>i   Thanks for the input Christoph.f  $ I have changed the disks previously.) There is currently nothing on SCSI bus A.e  F > dkb0.0.0.1010.0            DKB0                          RZ29B  0016F > dkb100.1.0.1010.0          DKB100                        RZ28D  0010F > dqb0.0.0.207.0             DQB0        TOSHIBA CD-ROM XM-6202B  1110! > dva0.0.0.0.1               DVA0 F > mkb600.6.0.1010.0          MKB600                        TLZ09  0172@ > ewa0.0.0.3.0               EWA0              00-00-F8-76-1C-F6F > pka0.7.0.1004.0            PKA0                  SCSI Bus ID 7  5.57@ > pkb0.7.0.1010.0            PKB0                  SCSI Bus ID 7@ > pqa0.0.0.107.0             PQA0                       PCI EIDE@ > pqb0.0.0.207.0             PQB0                       PCI EIDE  pH SCSI bus A shows errors on it (the KLAATU$PKA0 device - which is the VMSF device for SCSI controller - I think) even without any devices on it. E When there was I would get an error log entry saying the system diska " (DKA0) had gone into mount verify.  B Is there any way to disable the on-board SCSI controller I wonder?   Christoph Gartmann wrote:0
 8< snip 8<O > It loosk to me as if there is a problem with the device at SCSI-ID 0, not theaN > SCSI controller. Thus, replace the device at ID 0 and see whether this cures% > the problem (or remove the device).b > 
 > Regards, >    Christoph Gartmannt > J > -- --------------------------------------------------------------------+J > | Max-Planck-Institut fuer      Phone   : +49-761-5108-464   Fax: -452 |J > | Immunbiologie                                                        |J > | Postfach 1169                 Internet: gartmann@immunbio.mpg.de     |J > | D-79011  Freiburg, Germany                                           |J > +--------- http://www.immunbio.mpg.de/home/english/menue.html ---------+   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 17:35:22 +0200>4 From: "Heinz Oswald" <Heinz.Oswald@gero-computer.de>= Subject: Terminal Emu to MicroVaxII - typed characters effects/ Message-ID: <aguq3p$pue$07$1@news.t-online.com>n   Hello,  A since last week, I became an _operator_ of a MicroVaxII, 630QB-A3   B The machine was accidentlly _found_ in one of the production hallsL of our customer. The only ( ! ) attached VT340 now is at it's end. ( lots of black smoke ).7 The VAX serves as a controller for a processing center.A2 (seems it has been there since years and running )  C As a quick solution, I attached a Notebook with Windows and a VT340h
 Emulation.F It worked fine until last Thursday. Now it seems to double keystrokes. The effect is: typing W gives WWr typing L gives Lo  L I closed the emulation program. Shutdown Windows. Power cycled the Notebook.- Pulled of the serial line and connected back.e8 After Rebooting the notebook, the effect is still there.= Other Programs like editor etc. can used without that effect.o  E All settings regarding the serial line ( 9600 , 8 n1 ) seem to be ok.h It worked for nearly 2 weeks.v  . Could this be a malfunction of the serial line& equipment of the VAX or the Notebook ?    9 As I'm not familiar with this, any hints are appreciated.h    
 Kind regards,    Heinz Oswald   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 17:05:39 +0100i* From: "Richard Brodie" <R.Brodie@rl.ac.uk>A Subject: Re: Terminal Emu to MicroVaxII - typed characters effectd, Message-ID: <agurrr$1hcs@newton.cc.rl.ac.uk>  ? "Heinz Oswald" <Heinz.Oswald@gero-computer.de> wrote in message-) news:aguq3p$pue$07$1@news.t-online.com...:  H > It worked fine until last Thursday. Now it seems to double keystrokes. > The effect is: > typing W gives WWi > typing L gives La  J It is normal to run VMS systems with the echo function at the microVAX endR and to disable the local echo on the terminal. Likely you have the terminal set toO echo, and local echo enabled in the terminal emulator. An obvious check is thatk0 passwords will be echoed (once) with this setup.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 17:10:07 +0100t( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1>A Subject: Re: Terminal Emu to MicroVaxII - typed characters effecty) Message-ID: <3D32F3DF.D57E0137@127.0.0.1>.   Heinz Oswald wrote:o  C > since last week, I became an _operator_ of a MicroVaxII, 630QB-A3u > D > The machine was accidentlly _found_ in one of the production hallsN > of our customer. The only ( ! ) attached VT340 now is at it's end. ( lots of > black smoke ).9 > The VAX serves as a controller for a processing center.c4 > (seems it has been there since years and running )  / And probably will keep running. Welcome to VMS.   nE > As a quick solution, I attached a Notebook with Windows and a VT340n > Emulation.H > It worked fine until last Thursday. Now it seems to double keystrokes. > The effect is: > typing W gives WWa > typing L gives LK   Did you mean LL ?>  F This is a setting on the PC, it is giving you LOCAL ECHO or is set forG HALF DUPLEX. It is difficult to know where it will be in your emulation  package.  G As to why it has changed, well things don't happen by themselves, but Ic would not want to speculate.  N > I closed the emulation program. Shutdown Windows. Power cycled the Notebook./ > Pulled of the serial line and connected back.y: > After Rebooting the notebook, the effect is still there.? > Other Programs like editor etc. can used without that effect.o  F I would have expected to see the same effect, but going into an editorD does usually send an initialization command to a terminal, which may alter the emulation.  hG > All settings regarding the serial line ( 9600 , 8 n1 ) seem to be ok.u > It worked for nearly 2 weeks.e > 0 > Could this be a malfunction of the serial line( > equipment of the VAX or the Notebook ? > ; > As I'm not familiar with this, any hints are appreciated.-  F I'm thrown by the editor not giving you this problem. It may help yourA fault finding if you had a loopback connector (connect receive to F transmit on your PC-emulator) and if all is correct I'd only expect toG see single characters. Seeing dual means that the PC is echoing what itr' is also sending (hence you see double).i  @ If you tell us the name of the terminal emulation package, thoseC familiar with it should be able to guide your fault finding in morer detail.o -- a? Regards, Nic Clews a.k.a. Mr. CP Charges, CSC Computer Sciences  nclews at csc dot comt   ------------------------------   Date: 15 Jul 02 11:12:48 +0200) From: p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture)tQ Subject: Re: Tops-10/Tops-20 features not in VMS ?, was: Re: Looking for terminals) Message-ID: <tl9FLnBu6$AS@elias.decus.ch>o  x In article <zD8Nln76VvMv@eisner.encompasserve.org>, clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP (Simon Clubley) writes:h > In article <3D2F218A.16D51BF3@firstdbasource.com>, Michael Austin <maustin@firstdbasource.com> writes: > 1 > [Cross posted to alt.sys.pdp10 and comp.os.vms]o >  >> .J >> One of abuses I had heard of was a "sys admin" (term used very lightly)F >> that would go into "assist" mode with a user they were watching andK >> "auto correct" misspelled words. They did not know that VMS was powerfulmE >> enough to correct their typing -- Although Tops10/20 did have thatpJ >> feature. "Did you mean: xyz command (Y/N)" How difficult would it be toD >> put it into VMS - that would really make those **ix guys jealous. >> m > H > How accurate was that Tops-10/Tops-20 feature and how useful was it in > actual use ? > L > [As anyone who has worked with Gnat (the Ada compiler) will tell you, GnatK > tries to work out what spelling you really meant, but it's the first timer$ > that I have heard of it in a CLI.] >0  + It's there in the command shell on Mac OS X    [localhost:~] me% lish   OK? ls? yest# Desktop         Music ... and so onl   <snip> __
 Paul Sture Switzerlandn   ------------------------------  ! Date: Mon, 15 Jul 02 10:39:23 GMTa From: jmfbahciv@aol.com>Q Subject: Re: Tops-10/Tops-20 features not in VMS ?, was: Re: Looking for terminal + Message-ID: <agucf9$38s$2@bob.news.rcn.net>h  . In article <mdd1ya5sjqc.fsf@panix5.panix.com>,1    Rich Alderson <alderson+news@panix.com> wrote:nE >clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP (Simon Clubley) writes:a >tD >> In article <3D2F218A.16D51BF3@firstdbasource.com>, Michael Austin' >> <maustin@firstdbasource.com> writes:s >w2 >> [Cross posted to alt.sys.pdp10 and comp.os.vms] >o3 >>> One of abuses I had heard of was a "sys admin" e  >>>(term used very lightly) thatH >>> would go into "assist" mode with a user they were watching and "auto1 >>> correct" misspelled words. They did not know  " >>>that VMS was powerful enough toK >>> correct their typing -- Although Tops10/20 did have that feature. "Did h youm4 >>> mean: xyz command (Y/N)" How difficult would it  >>>be to put it into VMS - thatM3 >>> would really make those **ix guys jealous.  > >  > I >> How accurate was that Tops-10/Tops-20 feature and how useful was it inm >> actual use ?4 >2 >It's not accurate at all. >7: >What Tops-20 *did* have was command completion, filename  >completion, and help 4 >within the command via the ? key, this latter much  >more robust than VMS help in 5 >that the help message was immediately followed by a D >new command line with the8 >previously typed in material up to the question mark.   >This was made possiblem6 >by the COMND% JSYS, which gave the EXEC and all user  >programs that used it (andg/ >very few did not) a consistent user interface.M >i3 >Tops-10 provided a set of libraries for producing   >user interfaces, but did noti4 >provide a consistent user interface for the OS and 9 >user programs.  (Now the Tops-10 folks will jump on me.)a  : Why should we when we agree(d) with you?  Putting the user; interface library into the monitor was always on somebody'se= wish list (usually after his/her first encounter with setting|; up a set of SCAN tables).  The first reason it got rejectede= was we didn't how to do it; the second reason it got rejectedo9 was just thinking about all of those user programs out ina) the world (including our in-house stuff).t  ; Doing assembly user mode programming was always "easier" on 7 the -20.  Getting your work done was better on the -10.r   /BAH    ' Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail.y   ------------------------------    Date: 15 Jul 2002 09:23:17 +0200+ From: huber@vms.mppmu.mpg.de (Joseph Huber)g# Subject: Re: trivial UNZIP question + Message-ID: <IkYhuD+VeJl0@vms.mppmu.mpg.de>s   In article <20020715053526.40005.qmail@web21009.mail.yahoo.com>, =?iso-8859-1?q?Tadimeti=20Keshav?= <keshav_tadimeti@yahoo.co.uk> writes:i > Hello,3 > SO I am trying to unzip the downloaded RDB file.   >  > I downloaded the unzip file:. >           1.unzip.alpha_exe from process.com6 >           2.unzip-alpha_v5.exe from openVMS freeware > site > % > Q: all I have to do is run the EXE?3 > ) > I downloaded to Windows and FTP to VMS.- > ( > Now, as per the C_freeware_readme.txt:0 > ----------------------------------------------3 > Use the appropriate UNZIP executable to unzip ther > source archives. > 3 >     $ unzip :== $dka400:[info-zip]unzip.alpha_exer' >     $ unzip dka400:[info-zip]unzip542g0 > ----------------------------------------------3 > SInce in VMS we do a run/nodebug for image files,e
 > I did a  > unzip :== run/nodebug - * > dka100:[user.info-zip]unzip-alpha_v5.exe  R You have to define a "DCL external command" to invoke the image with command-line:  4  unzip :== $dka100:[user.info-zip]unzip-alpha_v5.exe  ' Not "run imagefile", but "$imagefile" !V See the DCL concepts manual.     >  > I do $unzip RDB706_ALPHA.ZIP;  >  > THe error I get is:  > 7 > %DCL-W-MAXPARM, too many parameters - reenter commandd > with fewer parametersa >  \RDB706_ALPHA\i >  > 5 > CAN SOMEONE PLEASE TELL ME WHAT'S GOING WRONG NOW??  >  > Thanks & regards > Keshav > 8 > P.S: I wouldn't want to trouble U all with a trivial Q3 > as this, but I guess the LISTSERV doesn't support  > searching through archives.  > 4 > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!?- > Everything you'll ever need on one web pages/ > from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts  > http://uk.my.yahoo.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 12:46:06 -0400n+ From: "Martin O'Connor" <moconnor@dvfs.com>e Subject: Re: un-INITing a tape?S5 Message-ID: <aguu7u$p1tpu$1@ID-118202.news.dfncis.de>   H Once the tape is mounted FOREIGN you can use the SET MAG/SKIP command toJ position the tape after the EOT and start reading. You may want to use theK DUMP command to look at records along the way. This is usually hit-and-misslJ and you may lose a little data at the beginning. I have done this recently
 on a TZ89.   Marty-  * "H.Vlems" <hvlems@iae.nl> wrote in message+ news:X4cY8.4325$Q4.48607@typhoon.bart.nl...iG > That used to work on TK50's, not sure whether DAT drives support that  trick. >O/ > "Dirk Munk" <munk@home.nl> schreef in bericht:" > news:3D305E2D.8070003@home.nl... > > Stuart Fuller wrote: > > > Mark Daniel wrote: > > >d > > > A > > >>Any way to un-INITIALIZE a (DAT) tape, or recover the data?m > > >> > > >>OpenVMS Alpha V7.3 > > >>   ------------------------------    Date: 15 Jul 2002 11:53:58 -0600B From: clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP (Simon Clubley) Subject: Re: un-INITing a tape? 3 Message-ID: <6$0LVPLifYhq@eisner.encompasserve.org>   c In article <aguu7u$p1tpu$1@ID-118202.news.dfncis.de>, "Martin O'Connor" <moconnor@dvfs.com> writes:1J > Once the tape is mounted FOREIGN you can use the SET MAG/SKIP command toL > position the tape after the EOT and start reading. You may want to use theM > DUMP command to look at records along the way. This is usually hit-and-misstL > and you may lose a little data at the beginning. I have done this recently > on a TZ89. >   K I was under the impression that it wasn't possible to do this on DLT drivesoK without special firmware. Can anyone else confirm that they have managed toa5 do this on a normal, production use, DLT type drive ?E   Thanks,,   Simon.   -- sB Simon Clubley, clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP       + Microsoft: The Lada of the computing world.r   ------------------------------    Date: 15 Jul 2002 12:00:38 -0600 From: briggs@encompasserve.org Subject: Re: un-INITing a tape? 3 Message-ID: <gJN+veOt9vIK@eisner.encompasserve.org>h  G In article <3D314DC2.6030601@home.nl>, Dirk Munk <munk@home.nl> writes:  > antonio.carlini wrote:1 >> Many years ago you had nice simple 9 track (orV2 >> maybe even 7 track) tapes where the drive could4 >> just keep going until it picked up the datastream	 >> again.2 > Q > Yes, I did that with a 9 track tape. I did write it was along time ago :-). It FQ > was a spare tape from our bank that was used for information about payments to  Q > our company. (normaly our own tapes were used). I was able to extract a lot of tP > data for other customers. I stumbled on the possiblity to read beyond the EOT N > mark because the tape was in EBCDIC, and I had to copy the contents to disk ( > before my Cobol program could read it.  E Strictly speaking, you're not talking about reading past the EOT markt here.   D On nine track tapes, the EOT mark is a reflective strip that appearsF some twenty or thirty feet before the actual physical end of tape.  ItC doesn't interfere with the magnetic data on the tape.  You can read3A right over it.  On writing, if you hit the EOT mark, an alternateCD status is returned.  And the application (or mag tape ACP process asB the case may be) needs to start thinking about cleanly closing out@ one volume and starting the next.  Otherwise you run the risk ofB reading clear off the end of the tape and detaching the Mylar from	 the reel.y  > (BOT is an identical reflective strip about ten or twenty feet? in from the physical start of the media.  Duplicate BOT markers @ resulted in one VAX Magic session that I fondly remember to thisG day -- one drive scanned forward to the mark and one scanned backwards. ? One reel of tape with two dissimilar data sets as viewed by the  respective drives).   A What you write as part of that clean end-of-volume close out is au@ pair of back to back tape marks.  On unlabelled mag tape, a pairD of back to back tape marks is conventionally taken as end of volume.6 On labelled tape, you get a set of EOV labels as well.  G (A tape mark is a feature of standard mag tape.  There are three things C that can go on standard mag tape.  data blocks, interblock gaps and  tape marks)D  F Reading past EOV is no big trick.  The problem is that you're probably@ reading past the data written by one pass of the write heads and@ into data from some prior pass that hasn't been overwritten yet.: At the boundary between the new and old data, the stuff onD the tape is indeterminate.  The boundary isn't clean.  At a minimum,> you've got an alignment error of around half a bit.  If you'reF recording in GCR (6250 BPI group coded recording) you've probably come? in in the middle of a group.  If you're recording in some otherAD fancy format (like DAT or DLT) you've probably come in in the middle of some logical data structure.v  A On plain old 9 track, this will manifest as a parity error at theoC line of demarcation between new data and old.  On DAT or DLT it may 7 well manifest as "position lost" (game over, you lose).r  > "position lost" comes from a background in the transition fromC start/stop to streaming tape drives.  Originally, tape drives would @ stop the tape after reading (or writing) each block and start itI up again to read (or write) the next.  The decelleration and accelerationCA had to take place within the interblock gap.  About half an inch.-B To get good data rates, you had to either use really strong motors? or buffer some tape using tension arms or vacuum columns.  This H meant that fast tape drives were expensive.  As electronics got cheaper,H an alternative approach was devised:  The streaming tape drive.  InsteadA of stopping and restarting the tape, you would simply let it keephH going.  With any luck, you'd get the next read (or write) request beforeL the tape had advanced to the point where you next needed to read (or write).  I But inevitably, you wouldn't always get the next read (or write) in time. @ And you'd have to back up the tape and get a running start.  TheF resulting tape motion is a back and forth "tape scrubbing" action that can be amusing to watch.  D But the point is that in backing up and getting a running start, oneD critical thing is that the drive firmware must know where it is.  ItB must resume reading (or writing) at the right place.  If the drive; firmware loses its place, no reliable recovery is possible.a= Conservatively written firmware accordingly returns a failurehB status ("position lost") and continues returning that status until. position is recovered, typically by rewinding.  E Drive firmware on DATs and DLTs tends to behave in this same way whenoC commanded to read out into the weeds.  It will return a fatal errore. and refuse to read further out into the weeds.  D Data recovery firms presumably use firmware that can be commanded to? read out into the weeds in the metaphorical hope of finding the1 neighbor's garden.   	John Briggs   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 13:44:47 -0400 # From: "Dan Allen" <dallen@nist.gov>I Subject: RE: un-INITing a tape?n: Message-ID: <OPEPIPEJGHNICIJKJFEAIELOEOAA.dallen@nist.gov>  P 	I find it interesting that many DLT tapes have an ERASE function that literallyP 	erases (degausses) the entire length of the tape.  What would be the purpose ofN 	this lengthy operation if the data is not readable once a new EOT is written?  P 	I have succeeded in reading past EOT on vintage tape drives and have heard thatP 	some newer drives did not allow this operation but have no current state of theN 	art experience to offer other than my observation above.  It would seem to be 	pretty easily tested??i   	Dan   > -----Original Message----- > From: Simon Clubleyc7 > [mailto:clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP] % > Sent: Monday, July 15, 2002 1:54 PM  > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com ! > Subject: Re: un-INITing a tape?c >  > e > In article <aguu7u$p1tpu$1@ID-118202.news.dfncis.de>, "Martin O'Connor" <moconnor@dvfs.com> writes: L > > Once the tape is mounted FOREIGN you can use the SET MAG/SKIP command toN > > position the tape after the EOT and start reading. You may want to use theO > > DUMP command to look at records along the way. This is usually hit-and-missAN > > and you may lose a little data at the beginning. I have done this recently > > on a TZ89. > >  > M > I was under the impression that it wasn't possible to do this on DLT drives M > without special firmware. Can anyone else confirm that they have managed ton7 > do this on a normal, production use, DLT type drive ?  > 	 > Thanks,  >  > Simon. >  > -- oD > Simon Clubley, clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP       - > Microsoft: The Lada of the computing world.t >    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 07:09:12 -0500L4 From: "Lucas, Edward A (SAIC)" <Edward.Lucas@bp.com> Subject: VMS commitment ? Message-ID: <EF1DC894691AD5118AF000508BB85FDE034CC70F@AMCLVX11>    Hello everyone,l  F The stupid company I work for has decided that VMS is going away.  The, merger with HP signals the way for UNIX. : (E This week I need to start a project called "VAX Elimination project".t (dingle berries)  @ Can someone please send me the link where HP commits to OpenVMS.H I need some fire power.  These dingle berries deciding that VMS is goingF away and the costs are too high need to find another job.  I have beenI working with VMS for over 16 years and I am so sick and tired of everyone K blaming the VAX's/Alpha's for every little problem, and each time we have atE problem its always another platform. ( You think I would become numb)2  K Please help. We have the opening meeting Thursday, and at that time I wouldt) like to present all information possible.fL These dingle berries feel they well be able to eliminate the VMS environment2 for around 2.5 mil. (daaaaaa, maybe around 9 mil.)  / To give an example of how stupid management is;iH They feel having a DR site is not necessary.  So I have purchased backupI systems.  My recommendation was to put the systems in Ohio or anywhere oniH the east cost.  The felt it was best to put them on another floor in theI same fricken building.  (The Building is in Tornado alley) They STATE thegI building will holdup during a tornado. (Ok, lets see the fricken building  stand during a level 4 or 5)     Edward A. Lucass  Sr. VAX/VMS System Administrator SAIC Phone:  (216) 525-7492 Email:   Lucaea@bp.com   ------------------------------  + Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 05:56:16 -0700 (PDT)V. From: Fabio Cardoso <fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br> Subject: Re: VMS commitmenth@ Message-ID: <20020715125616.24783.qmail@web20204.mail.yahoo.com>  $ Good luck finding a new career ! !    , A Sysman cannot fight against CIOs and CEOs & even the Sysman is an angel from God !  2 CIOs and CEOs are interested only in their bonuses0 and stock options, and not in saving investments for the companies.  * I saw two companies here in Brazil wasting' US$ 20 milions dollars and US$ 5 milion"& dollars respect. in bad IT projects ..# and we are not a rich country !!!!!    Regardst   FC h2 --- "Lucas, Edward A (SAIC)" <Edward.Lucas@bp.com> wrote: > Hello everyone,i > 4 > The stupid company I work for has decided that VMS > is going away.  Thet. > merger with HP signals the way for UNIX. : (1 > This week I need to start a project called "VAXa > Elimination project".2 > (dingle berries) > 6 > Can someone please send me the link where HP commits
 > to OpenVMS.t/ > I need some fire power.  These dingle berriesw > deciding that VMS is going6 > away and the costs are too high need to find another > job.  I have been 5 > working with VMS for over 16 years and I am so sickl > and tired of everyones5 > blaming the VAX's/Alpha's for every little problem,  > and each time we have an4 > problem its always another platform. ( You think I > would become numb) > 4 > Please help. We have the opening meeting Thursday, > and at that time I would+ > like to present all information possible.$0 > These dingle berries feel they well be able to > eliminate the VMS environmente4 > for around 2.5 mil. (daaaaaa, maybe around 9 mil.) > 1 > To give an example of how stupid management is;a4 > They feel having a DR site is not necessary.  So I > have purchased backup<4 > systems.  My recommendation was to put the systems > in Ohio or anywhere on5 > the east cost.  The felt it was best to put them ona > another floor in the5 > same fricken building.  (The Building is in Tornadod > alley) They STATE thea6 > building will holdup during a tornado. (Ok, lets see > the fricken building > stand during a level 4 or 5) >  >  > Edward A. Lucasu" > Sr. VAX/VMS System Administrator > SAIC > Phone:  (216) 525-7492 > Email:   Lucaea@bp.com >  >      =====t ========================== Fbio dos Santos Cardoso OpenVMS System Manager Rio de Janeiro - Brazilt fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br ==========================  2 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!?, Yahoo! Autos - Get free new car price quotes http://autos.yahoo.com   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 13:44:39 GMTe, From: "Kenneth Farmer" <kfarmer@openvms.org> Subject: Re: VMS commitmentd= Message-ID: <blAY8.14987$Sb3.686795@twister.southeast.rr.com>n  K Hope this can help.  It's more related to Itanium and Alpha but it's betterd
 than nothing.o  & AlphaServer Customer Assurance Program; http://www.compaq.com/hps/ipf-enterprise/customer_care.html    From: TheRegister.comgJ ...While Tru64 Unix customers will be encouraged to move over to HP-UX 11iB v2 from 2004 onwards, OpenVMS will itself be ported to the ItaniumL processor. In order to assist with migration, the company has introduced theA AlphaServer Customer Assurance Program, which offers a money-backlC satisfaction guarantee for transitions to Intel systems, as well aseI training, leasing and architecture programs. The company is also offeringoH cross compilers, API extensions and systems management tools to ease the1 migration of in-house developed applications. ...f- http://www.theregus.com/content/53/25331.htmls    L You can also go to OpenVMS.org and look through the news archives.  AnythingH that was in the news for the last six months is in there.  Maybe you can' build a case using some of the stories.+   Good luck and don't give up!   Kene   --   Kenneth Farmer http://www.Tru64.org http://www.OpenVMS.org http://www.LinuxHPC.org           ? "Lucas, Edward A (SAIC)" <Edward.Lucas@bp.com> wrote in message59 news:EF1DC894691AD5118AF000508BB85FDE034CC70F@AMCLVX11...t > Hello everyone,O >aH > The stupid company I work for has decided that VMS is going away.  The. > merger with HP signals the way for UNIX. : (G > This week I need to start a project called "VAX Elimination project".  > (dingle berries) > B > Can someone please send me the link where HP commits to OpenVMS.J > I need some fire power.  These dingle berries deciding that VMS is goingH > away and the costs are too high need to find another job.  I have beenK > working with VMS for over 16 years and I am so sick and tired of everyone K > blaming the VAX's/Alpha's for every little problem, and each time we have- a-G > problem its always another platform. ( You think I would become numb)  >nL > Please help. We have the opening meeting Thursday, and at that time I woul d + > like to present all information possible. B > These dingle berries feel they well be able to eliminate the VMS environment 4 > for around 2.5 mil. (daaaaaa, maybe around 9 mil.) >o1 > To give an example of how stupid management is;ZJ > They feel having a DR site is not necessary.  So I have purchased backupK > systems.  My recommendation was to put the systems in Ohio or anywhere onAJ > the east cost.  The felt it was best to put them on another floor in theK > same fricken building.  (The Building is in Tornado alley) They STATE thetK > building will holdup during a tornado. (Ok, lets see the fricken building  > stand during a level 4 or 5) >_ >_ > Edward A. Lucas " > Sr. VAX/VMS System Administrator > SAIC > Phone:  (216) 525-7492 > Email:   Lucaea@bp.com >d >s   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 10:04:44 -0400a0 From: "Alan Boyles" <alan.boyles@mindspring.com> Subject: Re: VMS commitmentm/ Message-ID: <uj5lemkc3mtdca@corp.supernews.com>   J Contact the SAIC sales manager, Don Hart at HP.  817-516-8763 who can helpL you out as  well.  I talked with him a few minutes ago and he can get you in# contact with most anyone within HP.e   Alan7 "Kenneth Farmer" <kfarmer@openvms.org> wrote in messageh7 news:blAY8.14987$Sb3.686795@twister.southeast.rr.com...nF > Hope this can help.  It's more related to Itanium and Alpha but it's better > than nothing.e >e( > AlphaServer Customer Assurance Program= > http://www.compaq.com/hps/ipf-enterprise/customer_care.htmlp >t > From: TheRegister.comrL > ...While Tru64 Unix customers will be encouraged to move over to HP-UX 11iD > v2 from 2004 onwards, OpenVMS will itself be ported to the ItaniumJ > processor. In order to assist with migration, the company has introduced the>C > AlphaServer Customer Assurance Program, which offers a money-back E > satisfaction guarantee for transitions to Intel systems, as well asrK > training, leasing and architecture programs. The company is also offeringLJ > cross compilers, API extensions and systems management tools to ease the3 > migration of in-house developed applications. ...r/ > http://www.theregus.com/content/53/25331.htmln >e >eD > You can also go to OpenVMS.org and look through the news archives. AnythingJ > that was in the news for the last six months is in there.  Maybe you can) > build a case using some of the stories.o >a > Good luck and don't give up! >v > Kent >  > -- >  > Kenneth Farmer > http://www.Tru64.org > http://www.OpenVMS.org > http://www.LinuxHPC.orgo >i >u >p >a >iA > "Lucas, Edward A (SAIC)" <Edward.Lucas@bp.com> wrote in message ; > news:EF1DC894691AD5118AF000508BB85FDE034CC70F@AMCLVX11...  > > Hello everyone,  > >eJ > > The stupid company I work for has decided that VMS is going away.  The0 > > merger with HP signals the way for UNIX. : (I > > This week I need to start a project called "VAX Elimination project".g > > (dingle berries) > > D > > Can someone please send me the link where HP commits to OpenVMS.L > > I need some fire power.  These dingle berries deciding that VMS is goingJ > > away and the costs are too high need to find another job.  I have beenD > > working with VMS for over 16 years and I am so sick and tired of everyoneH > > blaming the VAX's/Alpha's for every little problem, and each time we have > aiI > > problem its always another platform. ( You think I would become numb)s > >rI > > Please help. We have the opening meeting Thursday, and at that time Ie woul > da- > > like to present all information possible.cD > > These dingle berries feel they well be able to eliminate the VMS
 > environmentp6 > > for around 2.5 mil. (daaaaaa, maybe around 9 mil.) > >e3 > > To give an example of how stupid management is;kL > > They feel having a DR site is not necessary.  So I have purchased backupJ > > systems.  My recommendation was to put the systems in Ohio or anywhere onL > > the east cost.  The felt it was best to put them on another floor in theI > > same fricken building.  (The Building is in Tornado alley) They STATEy thetD > > building will holdup during a tornado. (Ok, lets see the fricken building  > > stand during a level 4 or 5) > >e > >  > > Edward A. Lucasc$ > > Sr. VAX/VMS System Administrator > > SAIC > > Phone:  (216) 525-7492 > > Email:   Lucaea@bp.com > >n > >t >t >    ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 14:42:57 GMTv# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>f Subject: Re: VMS commitment I Message-ID: <RbBY8.66002$WJf1.38450@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>n  ? "Lucas, Edward A (SAIC)" <Edward.Lucas@bp.com> wrote in messagea9 news:EF1DC894691AD5118AF000508BB85FDE034CC70F@AMCLVX11...m > Hello everyone,i >dH > The stupid company I work for has decided that VMS is going away.  The. > merger with HP signals the way for UNIX. : (G > This week I need to start a project called "VAX Elimination project".i > (dingle berries) >aB > Can someone please send me the link where HP commits to OpenVMS.J > I need some fire power.  These dingle berries deciding that VMS is goingH > away and the costs are too high need to find another job.  I have beenK > working with VMS for over 16 years and I am so sick and tired of everyonerK > blaming the VAX's/Alpha's for every little problem, and each time we have  aoG > problem its always another platform. ( You think I would become numb)d > G > Please help. We have the opening meeting Thursday, and at that time Ih woulda+ > like to present all information possible. B > These dingle berries feel they well be able to eliminate the VMS environmentp4 > for around 2.5 mil. (daaaaaa, maybe around 9 mil.) >o1 > To give an example of how stupid management is;cJ > They feel having a DR site is not necessary.  So I have purchased backupK > systems.  My recommendation was to put the systems in Ohio or anywhere onyJ > the east cost.  The felt it was best to put them on another floor in theK > same fricken building.  (The Building is in Tornado alley) They STATE theoK > building will holdup during a tornado. (Ok, lets see the fricken buildingn > stand during a level 4 or 5) >i >  > Edward A. Lucasp" > Sr. VAX/VMS System Administrator > SAIC > Phone:  (216) 525-7492 > Email:   Lucaea@bp.com  J Sorry to say it, and I know that people here in c.o.v. will be jumping allH over me for doing so, but the *best* ammunition you will find in writingJ from HP in a publicly viewable document are the statements that HP will beL continuing with Compaq's VMS roadmap from June 25th, 2001, and that alone isF probably the principal reason for your company/customer for making the decision they have.   I If you need something stronger than that, you will have to work with youruJ company/customer to try and extract something better from HP in one-on-oneJ negotiations. Any negotiation like that will probably be subject to a NDA,K and any success you have will only be applicable to your circumstances, and " not to the VMS community at large.  H If you are successful in turning the company/customer decision around, IL would strongly recommend getting anything HP commits to in writing, and haveG it vetted by your legal department before signing it, to ensure that ithF protects your interests adequately for as long as you deem reasonable.L Things to consider are long-term availability and support of new versions ofE software, ie. Oracle (if that's what you use), compliers, middleware,sL etc.... Wording like 'HP guarantees it will use its 'best efforts' to ensureJ that the customer shall, at all times, have a version of "XYZ Corp's DBMS"H available to it that is at release/functional parity with those versionsK available for HP-UX', would be a good starting point. In legal terms, 'bestcI efforts' means exactly that - your very best effort - sparing no expense, J leaving no stone unturned. If HP has to subsidize XYZ Corp. to continue toI produce a version specifically for you and you alone, then that's what it4 means.  B Best of luck in all your efforts. Let us know how things turn out.   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 15:34:03 GMTn# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>h Subject: Re: VMS commitmenttG Message-ID: <LXBY8.11135$WsS.1847@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>   ? "Lucas, Edward A (SAIC)" <Edward.Lucas@bp.com> wrote in message 9 news:EF1DC894691AD5118AF000508BB85FDE034CC70F@AMCLVX11...p > 1 > To give an example of how stupid management is;mJ > They feel having a DR site is not necessary.  So I have purchased backupK > systems.  My recommendation was to put the systems in Ohio or anywhere on J > the east cost.  The felt it was best to put them on another floor in theK > same fricken building.  (The Building is in Tornado alley) They STATE the K > building will holdup during a tornado. (Ok, lets see the fricken building: > stand during a level 4 or 5) >   I There are lots of empty data centers around that can be leased relativelynH cheaply these days within 200-500km of just about any location, and that( fits nicely with VMS wide-area clusters.  J If you are anywhere near the Mississippi or major tributaries, memories ofG how wide-spread the flooding was last decade should give pause as well.   L And then there's the New Madrid earthquake fault line that might factor into consideration.   How about an old missile silo?   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 10:29:40 -0700a+ From: "Mike Scott" <mscott_NOSPAM@axys.com>n# Subject: Wanted: NFS experiences...u  Message-ID: <3d330720$1@nubby2.>  K I need a file server for all my Alpha VMS workstations (mixed v7.1 - v7.3)..I I'm considering using the biggest station as an NFS server.  What are the B experiences out there?  Compaq TCP-IP vs. TCPware?  NFS v2 vs. v3?I In general, is NFS on VMS considered solid enough (and fast enough) for aV production environment?D? Note: Looked at clustering... not a good fit for other reasons.v -with thanks   ------------------------------   Date: 15 Jul 02 11:21:05 +0200) From: p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture):1 Subject: Re: Who said Carly doesn't like OpenVMS? ) Message-ID: <bR7kVF$BqAyE@elias.decus.ch>   Z In article <3D31DA63.6070401@qsl.network>, "John E. Malmberg" <wb8tyw@qsl.network> writes: > Paul Sture wrote:io >> In article <zj6Y8.13824$Sb3.536969@twister.southeast.rr.com>, "Kenneth Farmer" <kfarmer@openvms.org> writes:f >> e* >>>Who said Carly doesn't like OpenVMS? :) >>> < >>>http://www.openvms.org/stories.php?story=02/07/13/7134900 >>>  >> v0 >> Sorry, but that's giving me "Story not found" > H > It is working for me.  It seems someone got a picture of Carly in ZKO  > holding some license plates.  5 Thanks. I emailed Ken and I think he fixed something.r __
 Paul Sture Switzerlando   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 16:04:01 GMTd0 From: "warren sander" <warren.sander@compaq.com>1 Subject: Re: Who said Carly doesn't like OpenVMS?s2 Message-ID: <RnCY8.20$LV1.625755@news.cpqcorp.net>  I Look closely and you will see she is wearing an OpenVMS Ambassadors Shirt  --B ------------------------------------------------------------------6 Warren Sander                        OpenVMS MarketingG Hewlett-Packard Company              Work:  warren.sander@remove.hp.comnL 200 Forest Street MR01-3/J1          Personal: sander@remove.ma.ultranet.com3 Marlboro, MA 01752                   (508) 467-4875c5    My opinions are my own and I only speak for myselfo,          Read http://www.openvms.compaq.com/B ------------------------------------------------------------------    6 "Paul Sture" <p_sture@elias.decus.ch> wrote in message# news:bR7kVF$BqAyE@elias.decus.ch...e? > In article <3D31DA63.6070401@qsl.network>, "John E. Malmberg"e <wb8tyw@qsl.network> writes: > > Paul Sture wrote:nK > >> In article <zj6Y8.13824$Sb3.536969@twister.southeast.rr.com>, "Kennethn% Farmer" <kfarmer@openvms.org> writes:p > >>, > >>>Who said Carly doesn't like OpenVMS? :) > >>>$> > >>>http://www.openvms.org/stories.php?story=02/07/13/7134900 > >>>c > >>2 > >> Sorry, but that's giving me "Story not found" > >CI > > It is working for me.  It seems someone got a picture of Carly in ZKOa  > > holding some license plates. > 7 > Thanks. I emailed Ken and I think he fixed something.r > __ > Paul Sture
 > Switzerlandt   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 16:47:42 GMT # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>l1 Subject: Re: Who said Carly doesn't like OpenVMS? I Message-ID: <O0DY8.66701$WJf1.30086@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>d  ; "warren sander" <warren.sander@compaq.com> wrote in messagee, news:RnCY8.20$LV1.625755@news.cpqcorp.net... > K > Look closely and you will see she is wearing an OpenVMS Ambassadors Shirtt    I It's called a 'photo-op'.  I'd be more impressed if I knew she wore it at. head office 3 days per week.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 13:13:03 -0400t* From: WILLIAM WEBB <WWEBB1@email.usps.gov>1 Subject: RE: Who said Carly doesn't like OpenVMS?y- Message-ID: <0033000072550252000002L022*@MHS>n  5 =0A     Any bets on how long it'll take before we see 3      posts from the usual suspects complaining thata*      she didn't display an OpenVMS tattoo?        :^)        WWWebbd   -----Original Message-----/ From: Info-VAX-Request@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNETy$ Sent: Monday, July 15, 2002 12:48 PMB To: Webb, William W Raleigh, NC; Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNET1 Subject: RE: Who said Carly doesn't like OpenVMS?e    ; "warren sander" <warren.sander@compaq.com> wrote in messages, news:RnCY8.20$LV1.625755@news.cpqcorp.net... >lH > Look closely and you will see she is wearing an OpenVMS Ambassadors S= hirt    H It's called a 'photo-op'.  I'd be more impressed if I knew she wore it = at head office 3 days per week.=a   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2002.387 ************************