1 INFO-VAX	Tue, 16 Jul 2002	Volume 2002 : Issue 388       Contents:- Re: "Clean" CISC (was Re: McKinley Cometh...) - Re: "Clean" CISC (was Re: McKinley Cometh...) - Re: "Clean" CISC (was Re: McKinley Cometh...) - Re: "Clean" CISC (was Re: McKinley Cometh...) - Re: "Clean" CISC (was Re: McKinley Cometh...) - Re: "Clean" CISC (was Re: McKinley Cometh...) - Re: "Clean" CISC (was Re: McKinley Cometh...) - Re: "Clean" CISC (was Re: McKinley Cometh...) - Re: "Clean" CISC (was Re: McKinley Cometh...)  Re: 2 CMS questions  Re: 2 CMS questions  7.2-2 with tcpip eco4. Re: 7.2-2 with tcpip eco4. Re: AN easier UNZIP / Re: comp.os.vms "whiners" make news on Inquirer / Re: comp.os.vms "whiners" make news on Inquirer / RE: comp.os.vms "whiners" make news on Inquirer $ Re: Creating a "UNIX disk" under VMS$ Re: Creating a "UNIX disk" under VMS' DCL Print test for LA70 Console Printer  DEC 3000 Hobbyist  RE: DEC 3000 Hobbyist  Re: DEC 3000 Hobbyist  Re: Delete of .bck file  Re: Delete of .bck file  Re: Delete of .bck file  Re: Delete of .bck file  Re: Delete of .bck file  Re: F$getsyi hidden Feature ? 3 Re: Is it possible to write UUDecode/Encode in DCL? 3 Re: Is it possible to write UUDecode/Encode in DCL? 3 Re: Is it possible to write UUDecode/Encode in DCL? 3 Re: Is it possible to write UUDecode/Encode in DCL? 3 Re: Is it possible to write UUDecode/Encode in DCL? 3 Re: Is it possible to write UUDecode/Encode in DCL? 3 Re: Is it possible to write UUDecode/Encode in DCL? 3 Re: Is it possible to write UUDecode/Encode in DCL? , Re: Looking for terminal session sharing pgm Re: McKinley Cometh... Re: McKinley Cometh... Re: McKinley Cometh... Re: Microvax gathering dust... MQSeries Re: MQSeries Re: MQSeries Re: MQSeries Re: MQSeries Re: MQSeries  Re: Mysterious non-spinning disk4 Old CompuServe VAXforum libraries archived anywhere?8 Re: Old CompuServe VAXforum libraries archived anywhere?8 Re: Old CompuServe VAXforum libraries archived anywhere?8 Re: Old CompuServe VAXforum libraries archived anywhere?. Re: OpenSSL and certificates concept questions& OpenVMS 7.3 - XFC ECO 2 !!! When ?????* Re: OpenVMS 7.3 - XFC ECO 2 !!! When ?????A Re: OpenVMS on third-party platforms (was: Re: VMS port delayed!)  Re: RECALL suggestion  RMS Buffers  Re: RMS Buffers / TCPIP Services anti-spam feature for SMTP relay 3 Re: TCPIP Services anti-spam feature for SMTP relay 8 Re: Terminal Emu to MicroVaxII - typed characters effect8 Re: Terminal Emu to MicroVaxII - typed characters effect Re: Trouble with BACKUP/RECORD RE: un-INITing a tape? RE: un-INITing a tape? Re: un-INITing a tape? Re: VMS commitment Re: VMS commitment Re: VMS commitment Re: VMS commitment Re: VMS commitment Re: VMS commitment Re: VMS commitment Re: VMS commitment Re: VMS commitment Re: VMS commitment Re: VMS commitment Re: VMS commitment Re: VMS commitment Re: Wanted: NFS experiences... Re: Wanted: NFS experiences...( Re: Who said Carly doesn't like OpenVMS?( Re: Who said Carly doesn't like OpenVMS?( RE: Who said Carly doesn't like OpenVMS?( Re: Who said Carly doesn't like OpenVMS?( Re: Who said Carly doesn't like OpenVMS?( Re: Who said Carly doesn't like OpenVMS? write insert in sequential file # Re: write insert in sequential file # Re: write insert in sequential file   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------   Date: 15 Jul 2002 18:30:03 GMT/ From: cecchi@signa.rchland.ibm.com (Del Cecchi) 6 Subject: Re: "Clean" CISC (was Re: McKinley Cometh...)/ Message-ID: <agv4bb$ubq$1@news.rchland.ibm.com>   ) In article <xdZsBOTJmfyn@elias.decus.ch>, ,  p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture) writes:H |> In article <1026417901.734555@nnrp2.phx1.gblx.net>, "Dennis O'Connor" |> <dmoc@primenet.com> writes: |>  > |> Perhaps some reasoned argument, but I honestly do not care. |>  4 |> The man has a history of being an anti-VMS troll. |>  N |> This posted simply because of the venom he has posted to comp.os.vms in the |> past. Be warned folks.  |>   |> __ 
 |> Paul Sture   Z Please also note that some people insist on cross posting "alpha roolz, intel droolz" typeZ posts to comp.arch and comp.os.vms type groups.  many of us have been caught saying thingsP that would be called venomous perhaps in the vms context by this crossposting.    8 Yes Dennis can be venomous, but a troll?  I think not.   --     Del Cecchi   cecchi@us.ibm.com  Personal Opinions Only   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 19:04:15 GMT ( From: Don Sykes <annonymous@pacbell.net>6 Subject: Re: "Clean" CISC (was Re: McKinley Cometh...)* Message-ID: <3D331D35.CE8D406@pacbell.net>   Nick Maclaren wrote: > 7 > In article <01KK4V4F988Y000EYD@tgmail.tg.nsw.gov.au>, ) > paddy.o'brien@zzz.tg.nsw.gov.au writes:  > |> Jan-Erik, > |>K > |> Ignorance, I do not understand your implication of what is older than=  > |>  paper=20K > |> tape. ??  Perhaps Hollerith cards, but isn't the technology similar t=  > |> o what=20 > |> Glen was implying?  > B > No, paper tape is older than Hollerith cards.  The answer is the > telegraph. >  Ahhh Telegraph STOP 3 The first electronic data transmission vehicle STOP  --     Have VMS. Will Travel. Wire Paladin (@alphase.com) 
 San Francisco    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 15:01:01 -0400  From: William_Bochnik@acml.com6 Subject: Re: "Clean" CISC (was Re: McKinley Cometh...)> Message-ID: <OF1EFC570D.D75BC19E-ON85256BF7.00686E3C@acml.com>  > ah but what was the first digital data transmission vehicle???    n                                                                                                               n                       Don Sykes                                                                               n                       <annonymous@pacb                To:  Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com@SMTP@SCB                     n                       ell.net>                        cc:                                                     n                                                Subject: Re: "Clean" CISC (was Re: McKinley Cometh...)         n                       07/15/2002 03:04                                                                        n                       PM                                                                                      n                       Please respond                                                                          n                       to Don Sykes                                                                            n                       <annonymous@pacb                                                                        n                       ell.net>                                                                                n                                                                                                               n                                                                                                                      Nick Maclaren wrote: > 7 > In article <01KK4V4F988Y000EYD@tgmail.tg.nsw.gov.au>, ) > paddy.o'brien@zzz.tg.nsw.gov.au writes:  > |> Jan-Erik, > |>? > |> Ignorance, I do not understand your implication of what is  older than=  > |>  paper=20@ > |> tape. ??  Perhaps Hollerith cards, but isn't the technology
 similar t= > |> o what=20 > |> Glen was implying?  > > > No, paper tape is older than Hollerith cards.  The answer is the  > telegraph. >  Ahhh Telegraph STOP 3 The first electronic data transmission vehicle STOP  --   Have VMS. Will Travel. Wire Paladin (@alphase.com) 
 San Francisco                The information contained in this transmission may contain privileged and confidential information and is intended only for the  use of the person(s) named above.  If you are not the intended recipient, or an employee or agent responsible for delivering this { message to the intended recipient, any review, dissemination, distribution or duplication of this communication is strictly  prohibited.  If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message.   ------------------------------    Date: 15 Jul 2002 14:26:18 -0600+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) 6 Subject: Re: "Clean" CISC (was Re: McKinley Cometh...)3 Message-ID: <qYv7+aFAh51b@eisner.encompasserve.org>   _ In article <OF1EFC570D.D75BC19E-ON85256BF7.00686E3C@acml.com>, William_Bochnik@acml.com writes:  > @ > ah but what was the first digital data transmission vehicle??? >   C 	You mean: "was the teleegraph the first digital data transmission   	vehicle???"  @ 	Yes, if the paper recording the dots-dashes is considered "data8 	transmission."  The fax machine came seven years later:  6 http://inventors.about.com/library/inventors/blfax.htm  M Facsimile transmission over wires or faxing was invented by Alexander Bain, a L Scottish mechanic who in 1843 recieved a British patent for "improvements inM producing and regulating electric currents and improvements in timepieces and O in electric printing and signal telegraphs." Bain had created a fax transmitter O that was designed to scan a flat surface (made of metal) using a stylus mounted J on a pendulum. The stylus picked up the images on the surface. Seven yearsL earlier Samuel Morse invented the telegraph and the fax machine evolved from the telegraph technology.    				Rob    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 15:42:34 -0400  From: William_Bochnik@acml.com6 Subject: Re: "Clean" CISC (was Re: McKinley Cometh...)> Message-ID: <OF28186A94.C257CC1A-ON85256BF7.006C335F@acml.com>  ? I would think that either signal flags, signal lights, or smoke = signals (most likely smoke signals being the oldest) predated  these.      n                                                                                                               n                       young_r@encompas                                                                        n                       serve.org                       To:  Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com@SMTP@SCB                     n                                                       cc:                                                     n                       07/15/2002 04:26         Subject: Re: "Clean" CISC (was Re: McKinley Cometh...)         n                       PM                                                                                      n                       Please respond                                                                          n                       to young_r                                                                              n                                                                                                               n                                                                                                                     > In article <OF1EFC570D.D75BC19E-ON85256BF7.00686E3C@acml.com>,  William_Bochnik@acml.com writes: > @ > ah but what was the first digital data transmission vehicle??? >   :       You mean: "was the teleegraph the first digital data transmission       vehicle???"   ?       Yes, if the paper recording the dots-dashes is considered  "data =       transmission."  The fax machine came seven years later:   6 http://inventors.about.com/library/inventors/blfax.htm  ; Facsimile transmission over wires or faxing was invented by  Alexander Bain, a ; Scottish mechanic who in 1843 recieved a British patent for  "improvements in> producing and regulating electric currents and improvements in timepieces and? in electric printing and signal telegraphs." Bain had created a  fax transmitter @ that was designed to scan a flat surface (made of metal) using a stylus mounted> on a pendulum. The stylus picked up the images on the surface. Seven years ? earlier Samuel Morse invented the telegraph and the fax machine  evolved from the telegraph technology.                            Rob                The information contained in this transmission may contain privileged and confidential information and is intended only for the  use of the person(s) named above.  If you are not the intended recipient, or an employee or agent responsible for delivering this { message to the intended recipient, any review, dissemination, distribution or duplication of this communication is strictly  prohibited.  If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message.   ------------------------------   Date: 15 Jul 2002 20:14:52 GMT( From: nmm1@cus.cam.ac.uk (Nick Maclaren)6 Subject: Re: "Clean" CISC (was Re: McKinley Cometh...)0 Message-ID: <agvafs$8gq$1@pegasus.csx.cam.ac.uk>  > In article <OF28186A94.C257CC1A-ON85256BF7.006C335F@acml.com>,"  <William_Bochnik@acml.com> wrote: > @ >I would think that either signal flags, signal lights, or smoke> >signals (most likely smoke signals being the oldest) predated >these.   > Yes, but was there a formal, sequential encoding?  If you have= any evidence of that, there are newsgroups that would be most  interested to hear of it :-)  ? Completely off-group, we had a debate on sci.anthropology.paleo > about the significance of fire and flint knapping as the first> technologies, and concluded that they were only the first that> left permanent evidence.  Several of us considered that basket= making and even netting were probably older, but there was no = way of proving it one way or the other.  See whatsername, the  author of The Descent of Woman.   < It is clear that many modern computing techniques (including; some recently patented ones) were invented by Ada, Countess < Lovelace and her predecessors.  Some are known in biological
 systems, too.      Regards, Nick Maclaren,* University of Cambridge Computing Service,> New Museums Site, Pembroke Street, Cambridge CB2 3QH, England. Email:  nmm1@cam.ac.uk/ Tel.:  +44 1223 334761    Fax:  +44 1223 334679    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 16:05:13 -0400  From: William_Bochnik@acml.com6 Subject: Re: "Clean" CISC (was Re: McKinley Cometh...)> Message-ID: <OF9EC88E80.6222287A-ON85256BF7.006E52C2@acml.com>  ( of signal flags and signal lights??? :-)      Z                                                                                           Z                       nmm1@cus.cam.ac.                                                    Z                       uk                              To:  Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com@SMTP@SCB Z                                                       cc:                                 Z                       07/15/2002 04:14         Subject: Re: "Clean" CISC (was Re:         Z                       PM                       McKinley Cometh...)                        Z                       Please respond                                                      Z                       to nmm1                                                             Z                                                                                           Z                                                                                                 > In article <OF28186A94.C257CC1A-ON85256BF7.006C335F@acml.com>,"  <William_Bochnik@acml.com> wrote: > @ >I would think that either signal flags, signal lights, or smoke> >signals (most likely smoke signals being the oldest) predated >these.   > Yes, but was there a formal, sequential encoding?  If you have= any evidence of that, there are newsgroups that would be most  interested to hear of it :-)  ? Completely off-group, we had a debate on sci.anthropology.paleo > about the significance of fire and flint knapping as the first> technologies, and concluded that they were only the first that> left permanent evidence.  Several of us considered that basket= making and even netting were probably older, but there was no = way of proving it one way or the other.  See whatsername, the  author of The Descent of Woman.   < It is clear that many modern computing techniques (including; some recently patented ones) were invented by Ada, Countess < Lovelace and her predecessors.  Some are known in biological
 systems, too.      Regards, Nick Maclaren,* University of Cambridge Computing Service,> New Museums Site, Pembroke Street, Cambridge CB2 3QH, England. Email:  nmm1@cam.ac.uk/ Tel.:  +44 1223 334761    Fax:  +44 1223 334679I               The information contained in this transmission may contain privileged and confidential information and is intended only for theI use of the person(s) named above.  If you are not the intended recipient, or an employee or agent responsible for delivering thise{ message to the intended recipient, any review, dissemination, distribution or duplication of this communication is strictly  prohibited.  If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 01:46:12 +0200e( From: Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de>6 Subject: Re: "Clean" CISC (was Re: McKinley Cometh...), Message-ID: <5g2tga.sb2.ln@cohen.paysan.nom>   Dennis O'Connor wrote:5 > RISC: performance of compiled code is what matters,e7 >      and if feature drops the clock speed enough thatb< >      overall performance drops, or if a compiler can't use; >      that feature, it probably doesn't belong in the ISA;e$ >     a more commercial-EE attitude.  F Oh, I know plenty of EE engineers who make a solution to a problem so I complex that they can barely handle it - and freely admit this attitude.  J RISC is applying Occam's razor (sometimes, you even need an axe), so it's H simplifying beyond what's absolutely necessary to handle the complexity.  I I like KISS. People often think of complexity as a badge of honor - they gL show being able to handle it barely, so they must be good engineers. That's B wrong. You are a good engineer when you can throw the unnecessary L complexity out, because the reduced complexity now is *really* what you can L handle (not just barely), and the reward is shorter development time, lower ' costs, and a new boring project sooner.   K Unfortunately, as engineer, you typically start with the project, when all iA the more stupid* people already have defined a lot of crap to be e? implemented, and won't let go that stuff, because of their ego.   K *) they admit being more stupid, by refusing to do the implementation task r themselves.    -- A Bernd Paysan7 "If you want it done right, you have to do it yourself"m http://www.jwdt.com/~paysan/   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 17:16:00 -0700V+ From: "Dennis O'Connor" <dmoc@primenet.com>E6 Subject: Re: "Clean" CISC (was Re: McKinley Cometh...)3 Message-ID: <1026778412.140171@nnrp2.phx1.gblx.net>I  5 "Del Cecchi" <cecchi@signa.rchland.ibm.com> wrote ... + > In article <xdZsBOTJmfyn@elias.decus.ch>,M. >  p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture) writes:J > |> In article <1026417901.734555@nnrp2.phx1.gblx.net>, "Dennis O'Connor"  > |> <dmoc@primenet.com> writes: > |>@ > |> Perhaps some reasoned argument, but I honestly do not care. > |>6 > |> The man has a history of being an anti-VMS troll. > |>I > |> This posted simply because of the venom he has posted to comp.os.vms " > |> in the past. Be warned folks. > |> > |> __  > |> Paul Sturey >e; > Please also note that some people insist on cross posting J > "alpha roolz, intel droolz" type posts to comp.arch and comp.os.vms typeI > groups.  many of us have been caught saying things that would be called-; > venomous perhaps in the vms context by this crossposting.G > 8 > Yes Dennis can be venomous, but a troll?  I think not.  I Frankly, I think you may be feeding a troll by responding to "Paul", Del.sE For example, not caring about reasoned arguments: grade-A Troll-sign.u --7 Dennis O'Connor                       dmoc@primenet.com74 "We don't become a rabid dog to destroy a rabid dog"   ------------------------------    Date: 15 Jul 2002 13:19:51 -0600+ From: kuhrt@encompasserve.org (Marty Kuhrt)n Subject: Re: 2 CMS questions3 Message-ID: <CrOEcdiG79oh@eisner.encompasserve.org>t  T In article <87adouyp3i.fsf@Alethion.systasis.net>, sasadmin <jec@nospam.net> writes:' > "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> writes:o > H > Others have done a good job describing classes, so I won't repeat that	 > matter.d > > >> I may have made an error, but it seems the order of the CMSG >> libraries is importast.  In my case I have two libraries, and when IoD >> issue CMS SHOW LIB it lists the libraries, as say A and B in thatG >> order.  Now if I try to FETCH or RESERVE an element which is in B it-E >> responds element not found, but if I issue CMS SET LIB B then life  >> is good.n > H > Yes, the order is important. CMS has the concept of "occlusion." If anF > element is in libraries A & B, or in B only, by default CMS will notF > report the element in B. In general, I *strongly* recommend avoidingE > multiple CMS libraries for the reason you've described. You have tooG > explicitly tell CMS to work w/ B if it's not the first library in the  > logical name CMS$LIB.l > = >> Finally, it appears that the /GEN qualifier is overloaded, 4 >> sometimes meaning class, this is most unfotunate. > G > The class identifier is an element generation label. For that reason,SC > the GEN qualifier accepts a number (with relative operators) or aaG > class name. Classes are analagous to CVS labels and are used the same- > way. > D >> Is there any other interface to the CMS libs that provides a noreA >> consistent, orthogonal and simpler syntax, preferrably throughe	 >> emacs?s > C > Frankly, the worst source code control system is better than CMS. B > Given what seems to be your background, I'd download and install> > CVS. Porting to CVS from CMS is trivial, and it's a far moreK > robust environment. That also gets you your emacs --> source-code-control  > linkage.   >  > --   > Microsoft Free By 2003  E Perforce, www.perforce.com, has SCM (source code management) softwareoE that supports over fifty platforms.  Alpha VMS 6.2 and VAX VMS 5.5-2   and above are supported.     ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 19:06:11 GMT 0 From: prune@ZAnkh-Morpork.mv.com (Paul Winalski) Subject: Re: 2 CMS questions9 Message-ID: <3d3314a3.3176047705@proxy.news.easynews.com>0  A On Sat, 13 Jul 2002 19:57:43 -0700, "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com>  wrote:  I >Never quite have understood classes and the syntax used to specify them.  > I >an element may belong to classes (including the null class).  Now if you  >modify L >an elemnt by the usual RESERVE, REPLACE it won't be replaced in the classesK >where it appears.  There you must explicitly REMOVE and INSERT the element  >usingL >the correct generation and classes.  This all seems very error prone to me. > G >Is there no way to determine all occurences of an element (and current  >generation)J >in the various classes and to do a global replcement?  (Assume you do not >know  >how many classes there are)  C The generations of an individual element in a CMS library track the E evolutionary lineage (possibly with branches, if you use variants) of F that file.  CMS classes provide a way to take snapshots of collectionsE of elements at a particular point in the evoutionary process that arevF of interest to you.  For example, after you've built version 3 of yourE software, it's useful to be able to say to CMS, "fetch me the version?C of file X that went into version 3".  You can do this easily if you>< create a CMS class corresponding to version 3 and insert the- version 3 generation of each element into it.   C To operate on a set of elements in a class all at once, you want tonD use another CMS concept called groups.  A group is a set of elementsB that you wish to treat as a unit.  For example, you could create aA group called PROJECT_A that contains all of the CMS elements thatrE go into Project A.  Then when you go to build Version 3 of Project A, B you can create and populate a class containing the correct version- of each file that went into version 3 thusly:t  7     cms create class version_3 "Version 3 of Project A" 0     cms insert generation project_a version_3 ""  A The first command creates a class to keep track of what went intos> version 3 of your project.  The second command puts the latestC mainline version of each element in Project A into class version_3.2  I >I may have made an error, but it seems the order of the CMS libraries is: >importast. L >In my case I have two libraries, and when I issue CMS SHOW LIB it lists the >libraries,tK >as say A and B in that order.  Now if I try to FETCH or RESERVE an element. >which is inK >B it responds element not found, but if I issue CMS SET LIB B then life isY >good.  E That shouldn't happen as you describe.  Can you tell us the exact CMS  command that's failing?r  M >Finally, it appears that the /GEN qualifier is overloaded, sometimes meaninge >class, this >is most unfotunate.  D It's not overloaded.  /GENERATION always means exactly what it says:E it specifies which generation of an element you're interested in.  It E defaults to /GENERATION=1+, which means "the latest generation on theeB main line of descent".  I think your confusion stems from the factD that the generation-expression for the /GEN qualifier can be a class name.  This qualifier:       /GENERATION=version_3e  @ means "the geeration of the element that is in class VERSION_3".  B >Is there any other interface to the CMS libs that provides a nore >consistent, orthogonal / >and simpler syntax, preferrably through emacs?y  C I think you'll find that CMS command line syntax is both consistent01 and orthogonal, once you understand the concepts.   
 ---------- Remove 'Z' to reply by email.o   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 13:17:45 -0500 + From: Chuck Aaron <caaron@ceris.purdue.edu>l Subject: 7.2-2 with tcpip eco4. 0 Message-ID: <3D3311C9.1A4DCBED@ceris.purdue.edu>  = Is anyone running with a 7.2-2 with the new tcpip eco4 patch?    Chuck    ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 20:06:18 GMTo0 From: "Matt Muggeridge" <Matt.Muggeridge@hp.com># Subject: Re: 7.2-2 with tcpip eco4. A Message-ID: <_WFY8.446557$o66.1207072@news-server.bigpond.net.au>@   $ tcpip show ver  ?   Compaq TCP/IP Services for OpenVMS Alpha Version V5.1 - ECO 4 4   on a AlphaServer 2100 4/200 running OpenVMS V7.2-2     --= -------------------------------------------------------------e OpenVMS TCP/IP Engineering Enterprise Computing Group Hewlett-Packard Company  Gold Coast, AUSTRALIA = -------------------------------------------------------------     8 "Chuck Aaron" <caaron@ceris.purdue.edu> wrote in message* news:3D3311C9.1A4DCBED@ceris.purdue.edu...? > Is anyone running with a 7.2-2 with the new tcpip eco4 patch?  >  > Chuck    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2002 01:53:44 GMT 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>  Subject: Re: AN easier UNZIP' Message-ID: <3D338108.137D78BA@fsi.net>   & paddy.o'brien@zzz.tg.nsw.gov.au wrote: >  > Keshav wrote:  > 0 > >I found the UNZIP program & directions at the8 > >following link to be very simple and helpful compared- > >to the ones at OpenVMS's Freeware site ande > >PROCESS.COM.  > >o# > >http://www.djesys.com/unzip.html  > O > Without any sense of patronising, David always strikes me as a person wishinghM > to help.  However, I do not understand why the other resources are any moreeJ > complicated to understand.  They all seem to emanate from the basic help > in-built to unzip.  > FWIW, I'm working on an update to Zip (V2.3) and Unzip (V5.5).   BTW, wasn't there a ZIP V2.4?i   -- B David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/a   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 19:22:16 GMTs0 From: prune@ZAnkh-Morpork.mv.com (Paul Winalski)8 Subject: Re: comp.os.vms "whiners" make news on Inquirer9 Message-ID: <3d331e66.3178546928@proxy.news.easynews.com>e  A On 14 Jul 2002 19:50:39 -0700, bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)r wrote:  G >Said Charlie Matco, DEC-watcher extraordinaire: "C Fiorina visited thet@ >OpenVMS and Tru64 folks one day last month. All and sundry were@ >impressed with Carly, and Carly was impressed with goings-on inG >ZKOland. Once she got the message on OpenVMS and Tru64, she was prettyn >impressed as well.i  = Capellas made the same sort of Papal visit to Spit Brook Roade9 after he took over as Compaq's CEO, gave the same sort of = pep talk, and seemed impressed with the goings-on in ZKOland.t; And GQ Bob before him.  You'll therefore have to forgive mee? for being skeptical, and for reserving judgement on Carly until-' I see what she does, not what she says.G  B >"There have of course been some modest job cuts on the Tru64 side@ >(what with the impending consolidation onto HP-UX, but no major$ >bloodletting) but VMS remains safe.  A Carly knows a cash cow when she sees one.  VMS is safe as long asm/ it continues to provide a steady profit stream.l  G >"So fie and a pox on the naysayers, especially the clueless whiners in  >comp.os.vms."  E Certainly those who whine whenver a HPaq press release comes out thataE doesn't mention VMS in big letters, underlined in red, quotated, witheC circles and arrows and a paragraph on the back explaining each one,s) are going to continue to be disappointed.n  F But the open question remains as to what HP intends to do with its VMSC market over the long term.  Is it going to try to wind down the VMSfF committment as fast as possible?  Is it going to milk the cash cow forD all it's worth, investing only the minimum amount of engineering andC marketing effort to keep it growing?  Or is it going to try to grownF the VMS business?  I'm fairly confident that HP isn't going to try theD first of these three alternatives, but I'm not sure it's made up its mind between the last two.  
 ---------- Remove 'Z' to reply by email.v   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2002 00:20:40 -0400C4 From: "Mark Buda" <buda@tabasco.zko.dec.no.spam.com>8 Subject: Re: comp.os.vms "whiners" make news on Inquirer, Message-ID: <ah06v5$br0g$1@lead.zk3.dec.com>  @ "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> wrote in message, news:KTCY8.23$1H1.105575@news.cpqcorp.net...= > >there will be no functional enhancement for Open VMS afters8 > >2002 and MIPS will move to Intel-based chips by 2004. > > E > Darn.  Should I ask that checkin's for post 2002 releases be backed  out of > the source pool?  = I'll pull your new source checkins, if you pull my new source  checkins???!!!   or  F Either all the new code has to be thrown away or some reporter had one5 too many to drink...  I think I know which one it is.    mark   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2002 00:54:52 -0400t' From: "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@hp.com> 8 Subject: RE: comp.os.vms "whiners" make news on InquirerT Message-ID: <BE56C50EA024184DAF48F0B9A47F5CF402660845@kaoexc01.americas.cpqcorp.net>  H >>> >there will be no functional enhancement for Open VMS after 2002 and0 >MIPS will move to Intel-based chips by 2004.>>>  H This is from the same Gartner VP that is doing joint Sales presentationsF with IBM on server consolidation (their joint Sales presentation for aE web seminar was sent to a wide Internet based distr list), so you canC4 just imagine how objective the above statement is ..   :-)m  
 Kerry Main Senior Consultant  Hewlett-Packard Canada! Consulting & Integration Servicest Voice: 613-592-4660  Fax   : 613-591-4477 Email: Kerry.Main@hp.com     -----Original Message-----= From: Fred Kleinsorge [mailto:kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com]=20u Sent: July 15, 2002 12:38 PM To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Como8 Subject: Re: comp.os.vms "whiners" make news on Inquirer    G >there will be no functional enhancement for Open VMS after 2002 and=20o- >MIPS will move to Intel-based chips by 2004.s >h  G Darn.  Should I ask that checkin's for post 2002 releases be backed outa of the source pool?p   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 22:49:32 +0200S From: Dirk Munk <munk@home.nl>- Subject: Re: Creating a "UNIX disk" under VMS & Message-ID: <3D33355C.2070205@home.nl>   Joe Sewell wrote:dE > I'm working on a program that will need to be able to copy not only H > VMS disks (using BACKUP/IMAGE), but also UNIX (Solaris, to be precise)E > disks using BACKUP/PHYSICAL.  Assuming I cannot get the appropriateeF > group to make a UNIX disk on the media I require, is there any way IF > can convince VMS (V7.2-1 with UCX) to reinitialize a disk as a "UNIX" > disk" (to use the term loosely)?  P With backup/physical you wil get an exact copy of the Unix disk, from the first L to the last block. You can make the copy to disk or to tape. If you want to Q restore such a backup set, you will need exactly the same kind of disk. Not just yQ the same capacity, but the same type. You can use this for any kind of disk, not lN just Unix. This means you don't have to init the disk for the restore. I used P this to backup Windows-NT Alpha system disks, since uncle Bill isn't capable of 0 including a decent backup utility to his toy os.   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2002 02:01:22 GMT:1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>s- Subject: Re: Creating a "UNIX disk" under VMSn' Message-ID: <3D3382D0.5AABBAE3@fsi.net>f   Joe Sewell wrote:t > E > I'm working on a program that will need to be able to copy not only H > VMS disks (using BACKUP/IMAGE), but also UNIX (Solaris, to be precise)E > disks using BACKUP/PHYSICAL.  Assuming I cannot get the appropriateaF > group to make a UNIX disk on the media I require, is there any way IF > can convince VMS (V7.2-1 with UCX) to reinitialize a disk as a "UNIX" > disk" (to use the term loosely)?  9 Well, if you can MOUNT/FOREIGN/NOWRITE the disk, you can:i   $ MOUNT/FOREIGN/NOWRITE ddcu:c $ COPY ddcu: DISK.IMGm2 $! The COPY will complete with and error, but the $ $! file will be complete and intact.  B Note that this will COPY the ENTIRE PHYSICAL MEDIUM, including the# partition table and all partitions.w  F Since this will create an "image" of the physical disk, trying to COPY? it back to another medium may or may not work (probably won't).   C I suspect that you're gonna need to get deeper into the guts of ther  low-level stuff than you expect.   You should know that:i  H o INITIALIZE is roughly equivalent to "mkfs", but it can only create ODS
 file systems.t  H o VMS currently does not look at disk partitions. You'll have to do that	 yourself.)  6 Sorry - with the info. provided, this is all I can do.   -- o David J. Dachteras dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/-   ------------------------------    Date: 15 Jul 2002 19:24:20 -0700, From: johnellicottington@lycos.co.uk (Johno)0 Subject: DCL Print test for LA70 Console Printer= Message-ID: <6141fd50.0207151824.307b5424@posting.google.com>D   Hi,h  C Rather than use the built in LA70 Console Printer print test I havenC written a dcl version. This outputs the system name, date, time and E then duplicates the LA70 rolling ascii output until stopped by a ctrl"D Y. It then asks if you want to change the ribbon and if so outputs aE few more lines. The ribbon change dates are saved in a file. This alloF works fairly well. At the start of the procedure it asks for the paperD to be set at the top of the form. It then counts the number of linesC printed and then does a calculated number of line-feeds to positioneC the paper back at the top of form. This seems to work quite well aspF long as the output all appears on the one page but a bit off if two orE more pages are used. Any ideas how to make this improve this? My mainmA query though is how to convert the system name into a large print F version (Approx 5 characters high by 5 across). So if the first letter< of the system name is a Q then this is recreated at the said@ dimensions made up of Q's then if the second letter is a Z, thisA letter is then made up of Z's and so on. I would like to automategF this, as at the moment I am amending each version for each system. Any ideas?   Thanks   Johnom   ------------------------------   Date: 15 Jul 2002 20:49:27 GMT0 From: Chip Coldwell <coldwell@frank.harvard.edu> Subject: DEC 3000 Hobbyist/ Message-ID: <agvcgn$p35$1@news.fas.harvard.edu>s  C I'm a newbie to VMS who recently rescued a DEC 3000 - M300 from thesD trash with the intention of booting VMS on it using the Hobbyist CD.@ So far, I haven't had much success.  When I give a "boot DKA500"? command at the console, it finds the CD-ROM (device DKA500, seerE listing below) blinks the read light for a while and throws up a lineA  5     OpenVMS (TM) Alpha Operating System, Version V7.2V  ? after a while, the CD-ROM activity ceases and nothing else getsiD displayed on the screen.  I've waited for hours, and I'm pretty sure it's wedged.  B When I got it, the DEC 3000 was running Digital Unix and booted upD just fine, so I'm pretty confident the hardware is OK.  When I triedC to install from the Hobbyist CD, it complained that my firmware wasiB out of date, so I upgraded it (not without adventure).  Here's how things stand now:    >>> show configl   DEC 3000 - M300o Digital Equipment CorporationnU      VPP PAL V5.56-80800101/OSF PAL V1.45-80800201 - Built on 28-JAN-1997 10:54:25.34h  ! TCINFO      DEVNAM        DEVSTATs" ------      --------      --------K                  CPU	  OK KN16-AA -V7.0-S889-I21F-sV2.0-DECchip 21064  P3.0v!                  OSC      150 MHzl                 ASIC      OK                  MEM      OK                FEROM      OK 6n                  CXT      OK 5i                  NVR      OK                  SCC      OK                   NI      OK                 ISDN      OK 4                  SCSI      OK  D Everything seems OK, and furthermore, the computer continues to boot@ up under Digital Unix just fine, so I think the firmware upgradeF succeeded (although I've read warnings about upgrading firmware on DEC< 3000 -400, apparently I got away with it on the model -300).  E I've been goofing around with console environment variables to try tooC get this thing to boot from the CD-ROM, but so far without success.2D Here's the current working set (the BOOT_OSFLAGS is changed from "A"D for Digital Unix to "0,0" for VMS, but doesn't seem to matter as far) as booting from the CD-ROM is concerned):s   >>> show   AUTO_ACTION = HALT BOOTDEF_DEV = DKA300 BOOT_OSFLAGS = 0,0 ENABLE_AUDIT = OFF BOOT_RESET = ON< SCSI_RESET = 4 DIAG_LOE = OFF DIAG_QUICK = OFF DIAG_SECTION = 1
 DUMP_DEV =$ ETHERNET = 08-00-2B-BE-5F-0E , TENBT LANGUAGE = 3 MOP = ON SECURE = OFF POWERUP_TIME = {NULL}o	 RADIX = 0 
 SCSI_A = 7
 TRIGGER = OFFE    and here's the device situation:   >>> show dev  N   BOOTDEV      ADDR      DEVTYPE    NUMBYTES      RM/FX    WP    DEVNAM    REVN   -------      ----      -------    --------      -----    --    ------    ---(   ESA0         08-00-2B-BE-5F-0E , TENBTO   DKA300       A/3/0     DISK         1.05GB       FX            RZ26L     440CoO   DKA500       A/5/0     RODISK     681.57MB       RM      WP    CDR400t   1.0j)  ..HostID..    A/7       INITR  - Any help or suggestions would be appreciated.o   Chip   -- o Charles  M. "Chip" Coldwellu "Turn on, log in, tune out"    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 17:27:23 -0400a* From: WILLIAM WEBB <WWEBB1@email.usps.gov> Subject: RE: DEC 3000 Hobbyist- Message-ID: <0033000072592333000002L032*@MHS>o  . =0Atype TEST at the console prompt and tell us
 what you get.   , Here are the specific tests that are listed:  	 test asici test cxt
 test ferom test isdn (yeah right) test mem test nin test nvr test scc! test scsi (erase, format, verify)  test tcn   Thought this might help.   WWWebb   -----Original Message-----/ From: Info-VAX-Request@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNETs# Sent: Monday, July 15, 2002 4:59 PMtB To: Webb, William W Raleigh, NC; Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNET Subject: DEC 3000 Hobbyist    C I'm a newbie to VMS who recently rescued a DEC 3000 - M300 from theoD trash with the intention of booting VMS on it using the Hobbyist CD.@ So far, I haven't had much success.  When I give a "boot DKA500"? command at the console, it finds the CD-ROM (device DKA500, seemE listing below) blinks the read light for a while and throws up a line   5     OpenVMS (TM) Alpha Operating System, Version V7.2u  ? after a while, the CD-ROM activity ceases and nothing else gets D displayed on the screen.  I've waited for hours, and I'm pretty sure it's wedged.  B When I got it, the DEC 3000 was running Digital Unix and booted upD just fine, so I'm pretty confident the hardware is OK.  When I triedC to install from the Hobbyist CD, it complained that my firmware wasSB out of date, so I upgraded it (not without adventure).  Here's how things stand now:T   >>> show configY   DEC 3000 - M300o Digital Equipment Corporation H      VPP PAL V5.56-80800101/OSF PAL V1.45-80800201 - Built on 28-JAN-19= 97 10:54:25.34G  ! TCINFO      DEVNAM        DEVSTAT " ------      --------      --------H                  CPU       OK KN16-AA -V7.0-S889-I21F-sV2.0-DECchip 210= 64  P3.0!                  OSC      150 MHzl                 ASIC      OK                  MEM      OK                FEROM      OK 6i                  CXT      OK 5.                  NVR      OK                  SCC      OK                   NI      OK                 ISDN      OK 4T                 SCSI      OK  D Everything seems OK, and furthermore, the computer continues to boot@ up under Digital Unix just fine, so I think the firmware upgradeF succeeded (although I've read warnings about upgrading firmware on DEC< 3000 -400, apparently I got away with it on the model -300).  E I've been goofing around with console environment variables to try tocC get this thing to boot from the CD-ROM, but so far without success.-D Here's the current working set (the BOOT_OSFLAGS is changed from "A"D for Digital Unix to "0,0" for VMS, but doesn't seem to matter as far) as booting from the CD-ROM is concerned):.   >>> show   AUTO_ACTION =3D HALT BOOTDEF_DEV =3D DKA300 BOOT_OSFLAGS =3D 0,0 ENABLE_AUDIT =3D OFF BOOT_RESET =3D ON  SCSI_RESET =3D 4 DIAG_LOE =3D OFF DIAG_QUICK =3D OFF DIAG_SECTION =3D 1 DUMP_DEV =3D& ETHERNET =3D 08-00-2B-BE-5F-0E , TENBT LANGUAGE =3D 3
 MOP =3D ON SECURE =3D OFF POWERUP_TIME =3D {NULL}h RADIX =3D 0o SCSI_A =3D 7 TRIGGER =3D OFFS    and here's the device situation:   >>> show dev  H   BOOTDEV      ADDR      DEVTYPE    NUMBYTES      RM/FX    WP    DEVNAM=     REV-H   -------      ----      -------    --------      -----    --    ------=     ---a(   ESA0         08-00-2B-BE-5F-0E , TENBTH   DKA300       A/3/0     DISK         1.05GB       FX            RZ26L =     440CH   DKA500       A/5/0     RODISK     681.57MB       RM      WP    CDR400= t   1.0j  ..HostID..    A/7       INITR  - Any help or suggestions would be appreciated.    Chip   -- Charles  M. "Chip" Coldwell, "Turn on, log in, tune out"=   ------------------------------   Date: 15 Jul 2002 23:18:39 GMT4 From: Chip Coldwell <coldwell@frank.harvard.invalid> Subject: Re: DEC 3000 Hobbyist/ Message-ID: <agvl8f$p52$1@news.fas.harvard.edu>e   >>> test   T-STS-ASIC - OKt T-STS-MEM - OK T-STS-NVR - OK- [ lots of pretty patterns on the screen now ]  T-STS-SCC - OK
 T-STS-NI - OK  T-STS-SCSI A - OKo T-STS-ISDN - OKj T-STS-FEROM - OK  D I conclude that the hardware checks out OK.  I wonder if the problem is:o  
 1.  PALcode ?h 2.  CD-ROM block size ?n 3.  Bad copy of Hobbyist CD?   Chip   -- e Charles  M. "Chip" Coldwell. "Turn on, log in, tune out"o    + WILLIAM WEBB <WWEBB1@email.usps.gov> wrote:'  - > type TEST at the console prompt and tell us5 > what you get.'  . > Here are the specific tests that are listed:   > test asic 
 > test cxt > test ferom > test isdn (yeah right)
 > test mem	 > test ni/
 > test nvr
 > test scc# > test scsi (erase, format, verify) 
 > test tcn   > Thought this might help.   > WWWebb   > -----Original Message-----1 > From: Info-VAX-Request@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNET % > Sent: Monday, July 15, 2002 4:59 PM9D > To: Webb, William W Raleigh, NC; Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNET > Subject: DEC 3000 Hobbyist    E > I'm a newbie to VMS who recently rescued a DEC 3000 - M300 from theeF > trash with the intention of booting VMS on it using the Hobbyist CD.B > So far, I haven't had much success.  When I give a "boot DKA500"A > command at the console, it finds the CD-ROM (device DKA500, seeeG > listing below) blinks the read light for a while and throws up a linet  7 >     OpenVMS (TM) Alpha Operating System, Version V7.2e  A > after a while, the CD-ROM activity ceases and nothing else gets F > displayed on the screen.  I've waited for hours, and I'm pretty sure > it's wedged.  D > When I got it, the DEC 3000 was running Digital Unix and booted upF > just fine, so I'm pretty confident the hardware is OK.  When I triedE > to install from the Hobbyist CD, it complained that my firmware wasXD > out of date, so I upgraded it (not without adventure).  Here's how > things stand now:s   >>>> show config   > DEC 3000 - M300u > Digital Equipment CorporationeK >      VPP PAL V5.56-80800101/OSF PAL V1.45-80800201 - Built on 28-JAN-1997i
 > 10:54:25.34s  # > TCINFO      DEVNAM        DEVSTAT $ > ------      --------      --------Q >                  CPU       OK KN16-AA -V7.0-S889-I21F-sV2.0-DECchip 21064  P3.0 # >                  OSC      150 MHzp >                 ASIC      OK >                  MEM      OK >                FEROM      OK > 6  >                  CXT      OK > 5a >                  NVR      OK >                  SCC      OK >                   NI      OK >                 ISDN      OK > 4w >                 SCSI      OK  F > Everything seems OK, and furthermore, the computer continues to bootB > up under Digital Unix just fine, so I think the firmware upgradeH > succeeded (although I've read warnings about upgrading firmware on DEC> > 3000 -400, apparently I got away with it on the model -300).  G > I've been goofing around with console environment variables to try to-E > get this thing to boot from the CD-ROM, but so far without success.dF > Here's the current working set (the BOOT_OSFLAGS is changed from "A"F > for Digital Unix to "0,0" for VMS, but doesn't seem to matter as far+ > as booting from the CD-ROM is concerned):t  	 >>>> show    > AUTO_ACTION = HALT > BOOTDEF_DEV = DKA300 > BOOT_OSFLAGS = 0,0 > ENABLE_AUDIT = OFF > BOOT_RESET = ON  > SCSI_RESET = 4 > DIAG_LOE = OFF > DIAG_QUICK = OFF > DIAG_SECTION = 1 > DUMP_DEV =& > ETHERNET = 08-00-2B-BE-5F-0E , TENBT > LANGUAGE = 3
 > MOP = ON > SECURE = OFF > POWERUP_TIME = {NULL}  > RADIX = 0y > SCSI_A = 7 > TRIGGER = OFF   " > and here's the device situation:  
 >>>> show devs  P >   BOOTDEV      ADDR      DEVTYPE    NUMBYTES      RM/FX    WP    DEVNAM    REVP >   -------      ----      -------    --------      -----    --    ------    ---* >   ESA0         08-00-2B-BE-5F-0E , TENBTQ >   DKA300       A/3/0     DISK         1.05GB       FX            RZ26L     440C4Q >   DKA500       A/5/0     RODISK     681.57MB       RM      WP    CDR400t   1.0ji  >  ..HostID..    A/7       INITR  / > Any help or suggestions would be appreciated.    > Chip   > -- > Charles  M. "Chip" Coldwell  > "Turn on, log in, tune out"o   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 18:21:09 GMTa0 From: prune@ZAnkh-Morpork.mv.com (Paul Winalski)  Subject: Re: Delete of .bck file9 Message-ID: <3d331353.3175711501@proxy.news.easynews.com>   / On Mon, 15 Jul 2002 11:05:30 -0500, Chuck Aarono  <caaron@ceris.purdue.edu> wrote:   >Group,5 >4( >How do you delete a .bck file off tape?  @ Mount the tape and use the DELETE command from DCL.  Or is there' more to your question that I'm missing?e    
 ---------- Remove 'Z' to reply by email.i   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 13:16:20 -0500e+ From: Chuck Aaron <caaron@ceris.purdue.edu>M  Subject: Re: Delete of .bck file0 Message-ID: <3D331174.23335CC9@ceris.purdue.edu>  B I have five *.bck files on one DLT 40/TAPE. The name of the file IA want to delete off the tape is called us15jul02.bck. What command  would I use?   Thanks.    Simon Clubley wrote: > ` > In article <3D32F2CA.669CA544@ceris.purdue.edu>, Chuck Aaron <caaron@ceris.purdue.edu> writes:
 > > Group, > > + > > How do you delete a .bck file off tape?  > >t > > Thanks.l >  > $ set reading/mode=telepathy5 > %SET-W-NOTELEPATHY, error activating telepathy mode 7 > -DNA-E-NOTPRESENT, required DNA sequences not present  > $u > > > In other words, you haven't provided enough information. :-) > K > Do you want to remove one file from a series of files, leaving the others : > intact or do you want to delete the contents of a tape ? > N > If it's the latter, what kind of tape and how paranoid are you/how sensitive > is the data ?o > M > [On old tape drives, it's possible to easily read past the start of a newlyiK > initialised tape; on DLT type drives, you need to be in the data recoverys > business to do so.]n > J > If it's an old tape drive, and you want to really delete the contents ofM > the entire tape, INIT it and then write a program to write blocks of randomb > data to the tape.e >  > Hope this helps, >  > Simon. >  > --= > Simon Clubley, clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFPr- > Microsoft: The Lada of the computing world.s   ------------------------------    Date: 15 Jul 2002 13:36:16 -0600 From: briggs@encompasserve.org  Subject: Re: Delete of .bck file3 Message-ID: <VNv$werxGCS6@eisner.encompasserve.org>   l In article <3d331353.3175711501@proxy.news.easynews.com>, prune@ZAnkh-Morpork.mv.com (Paul Winalski) writes:1 > On Mon, 15 Jul 2002 11:05:30 -0500, Chuck Aaron " > <caaron@ceris.purdue.edu> wrote: >  >>Group, >>) >>How do you delete a .bck file off tape?n > B > Mount the tape and use the DELETE command from DCL.  Or is there) > more to your question that I'm missing?y  7 Since when can you delete from sequential access media?S  C You could manage that feat on TU58 tape.  But then TU58 is a randoml2 access medium -- it's a tape that emulates a disk.  D The kind of tape scrubbing and reel switching activity that would beG required to perform a delete from the middle of an ANSI labelled volumeg boggles the mind.o  D The correct answer is that you copy everything else from the tape toE disk, erase the tape and then copy everything but the .bck file back.   @ The fun part is that he just might have to do this.  Lawyers and> DoD auditors can get downright bitchy when they tell you to do something and you refuse.n   	John Briggs   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 14:36:59 -0400o& From: Ken Robinson <kenrbnsn1@rcn.com>  Subject: Re: Delete of .bck file< Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020715143523.036eb008@pop.rcn.com>  ' At 01:16 PM 7/15/2002 -0500, you wrote: C >I have five *.bck files on one DLT 40/TAPE. The name of the file IrB >want to delete off the tape is called us15jul02.bck. What command
 >would I use?e  I You can not delete files from a tape. The best you can do is to copy all iJ the savesets you want to save to disk, not restore -- just copy, init the  tape, and copy them back.    Ken Robinson   ------------------------------   Date: 16 Jul 02 01:13:53 +0200) From: p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture)k  Subject: Re: Delete of .bck file) Message-ID: <UcL+w4UD3grp@elias.decus.ch>i  ^ In article <3D331174.23335CC9@ceris.purdue.edu>, Chuck Aaron <caaron@ceris.purdue.edu> writes:D > I have five *.bck files on one DLT 40/TAPE. The name of the file IC > want to delete off the tape is called us15jul02.bck. What commandl > would I use? > K You can't. Simple as that. Tapes are serial devices - think about trying togL delete a TV program from a VCR tape or a music track from an audio cassette.  K The only way to do it is to copy the lot off to disk and recreate your tapeo  from the files you wish to have.  B Please give us more information on why you want to do this, and we can give better answers. __
 Paul Sture Switzerlands   ------------------------------   Date: 15 Jul 2002 18:55:30 GMT2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)& Subject: Re: F$getsyi hidden Feature ?* Message-ID: <agv5r2$i9p$1@web1.cup.hp.com>  k In article <fae8becc.0207110214.3b21f1a4@posting.google.com>, Kor.Rinkens@vodafone.nl (Kor Rinkens) writes:4D :pagedyn = f$getsyi("pagedyn")   ! give the initial pagedyn in bytesE :npagedyn = f$getsyo("npagedyn") ! give the initial npagedyn in bytes'B :npagevir = f$getsyi("npagevir") ! give the max virtual pagecnt in :bytes :t5 :parameter is not documented in the vms help f$getsyi.  E   All system parameters are accessable, you probably missed that partn7   of the help file -- this is documented and supported.r  E :Does somebody know the f$getsyi parameter to get the free (n)pagedyn = :and the parameter to get the current (n)pagedyn for example:e :  :f$getsyi("free_npagedyn") :f$getsyi("cur_pagedyn") : E :maybe there is no parameter. If there is no parameter then i have tot& :rewrite the com file in an other way.  F   The "real" limit is NPAGEVIR, assuming physical memory is available.  B   There is no direct way to gain this information, nor would it beA   particularly safe nor supported for code to parse the output of     a command such as SHOW MEMORY.  C   I'll guess that the code is not working now because somebody "got C   creative" when last working on this area, and the output formats 0@   have changed and the code hasn't been updated accordingly.  Or@   the code is aimed directly at some inner-mode data cells, and    something has moved around.1  D   There is no particular direct means into the information displayedA   by SHOW MEMORY, short of looking at some inner-mode system data @   structures.  (You might be able to read at least some of theseB   data structures directly from user mode, but this stuff can have   a tendency to move around.)   I   Some background on the particular problem you looking to solve, please?o    N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------N       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.com    N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 14:29:18 -0400t! From: Jim Agnew <jpagnew@vcu.edu>h< Subject: Re: Is it possible to write UUDecode/Encode in DCL?' Message-ID: <3D33147E.54C196E8@vcu.edu>h  " do you have a tape drive?? or cd??   Jamie Stallwood wrote: > F > On 15 Jul 2002 19:05:25 +0200, huber@vms.mppmu.mpg.de (Joseph Huber) > wrote: >  > >In article <6ju5jucnfst53hk8hlqs6fn131g15mq2sk@4ax.com>, Jamie Stallwood <this.no.work.try.something.else@project76.net> writes:E > >> An easy question :) > > ) > >Probably yes, You can write it in DCL.n. > >But why not use the programs written in C ? > >OC > >If You have HP/Compaq/Digital TCPIP services, then simply define ! > >$ uudecode :== $TCPIP$UUDECODE-! > >$ uuencode :== $TCPIP$UUENCODE- > > N > >Or look into the various freeware archives for versions of uuencode/decode. > H > I have acquired a mchine with no TCP/IP, no MACRO, no languages, and aE > flaky kermit that stops after 1k. Hence I am trying to put stuff onAD > it, but need to bootstrap it by getting CMU-IP on, then everything > else.o > 0 > It's 5.5-2 btw, no CDA$CONVERT before you ask. > H > I tried the ODS2 package at vms.process, but an IMPORT accvios (turnedG > out to be deleting a VCB pointer) and then says no free blocks in theoG > bitmap. If anyone knows a better way of using a floppy I might have a 	 > chance!    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 19:09:36 +0100lE From: Jamie Stallwood <this.no.work.try.something.else@project76.net>t< Subject: Re: Is it possible to write UUDecode/Encode in DCL?8 Message-ID: <en36jusvs8emjr3obigf3hv4ac4coicmps@4ax.com>  D On 15 Jul 2002 19:05:25 +0200, huber@vms.mppmu.mpg.de (Joseph Huber) wrote:   >In article <6ju5jucnfst53hk8hlqs6fn131g15mq2sk@4ax.com>, Jamie Stallwood <this.no.work.try.something.else@project76.net> writes:  >> An easy question :) > ' >Probably yes, You can write it in DCL.h, >But why not use the programs written in C ? > A >If You have HP/Compaq/Digital TCPIP services, then simply define  >$ uudecode :== $TCPIP$UUDECODEt >$ uuencode :== $TCPIP$UUENCODEd >cL >Or look into the various freeware archives for versions of uuencode/decode.  F I have acquired a mchine with no TCP/IP, no MACRO, no languages, and aC flaky kermit that stops after 1k. Hence I am trying to put stuff oneB it, but need to bootstrap it by getting CMU-IP on, then everything else.   . It's 5.5-2 btw, no CDA$CONVERT before you ask.  F I tried the ODS2 package at vms.process, but an IMPORT accvios (turnedE out to be deleting a VCB pointer) and then says no free blocks in thefE bitmap. If anyone knows a better way of using a floppy I might have ae chance!    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 22:06:54 +0200n9 From: Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com>0< Subject: Re: Is it possible to write UUDecode/Encode in DCL?' Message-ID: <3D332B5E.902C5672@aaa.com>-  8 Can you have a terminal emulator connected that uses the- console (or some other hard-wired terminal) ?   ? Then, if nothing else works, you could build VMS-SHARE files of B anything you'd like to move to your system. Then, on the connected? PC, cut-n-paste the VMS-SHARE file from Notepad via the console = to your system. then just run your VMS-SHARE file to "unpack"S7 your files. You must have a working TPU on your system.g  , What do you mean by "need to bootstrap it" ? Isn't the box booted ?   Jan-Erik Sderholm.    > Jamie Stallwood wrote: > >c > > J > > I have acquired a mchine with no TCP/IP, no MACRO, no languages, and aG > > flaky kermit that stops after 1k. Hence I am trying to put stuff ondF > > it, but need to bootstrap it by getting CMU-IP on, then everything	 > > else.R > >u   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 21:59:33 +0100SE From: Jamie Stallwood <this.no.work.try.something.else@project76.net>e< Subject: Re: Is it possible to write UUDecode/Encode in DCL?8 Message-ID: <und6ju8gf629kbr0334rv1etrf06som1lj@4ax.com>  D On Mon, 15 Jul 2002 22:06:54 +0200, Jan-Erik Sderholm <aaa@aaa.com> wrote:  9 >Can you have a terminal emulator connected that uses the1. >console (or some other hard-wired terminal) ? >N@ >Then, if nothing else works, you could build VMS-SHARE files ofC >anything you'd like to move to your system. Then, on the connectede@ >PC, cut-n-paste the VMS-SHARE file from Notepad via the console> >to your system. then just run your VMS-SHARE file to "unpack"8 >your files. You must have a working TPU on your system. >-- >What do you mean by "need to bootstrap it" ?, >Isn't the box booted ?3   Thanks Jan, D That's what I needed. I have reflection 4, and not yet a CD drive. UF have to find the right parts to connect a SCSI CD drive to my 3100/38.  F By bootstrap I meant a way of getting the network working (IP) withoutE a working IP network. Hence CMU-IP. Then I can FTP the UNZIP to I and= then everything is splendid :)  ! Is VMS-SHARE on the Hunter site?     ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 23:30:46 +0200 9 From: Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com> < Subject: Re: Is it possible to write UUDecode/Encode in DCL?' Message-ID: <3D333F06.F101F011@aaa.com>    Yes :-> http://vms.process.com/scripts/fileserv/fileserv.com?VMS_SHARE  < Now, be aware that you need another VMS system to build your VMS-SHARE kits on.    Just thought of another thing...= You have Reflection you say. Reflection have (or had at least > in the good-ol-days) a tool called VAXLINK2. The "server" part< was downloadable from the emulator. *But* you needed a MACRO2 compiler on the VAX host to build the server part.  	 Jan-Erik.e   Jamie Stallwood wrote: > F > On Mon, 15 Jul 2002 22:06:54 +0200, Jan-Erik Sderholm <aaa@aaa.com> > wrote: > ; > >Can you have a terminal emulator connected that uses the 0 > >console (or some other hard-wired terminal) ? > >lB > >Then, if nothing else works, you could build VMS-SHARE files ofE > >anything you'd like to move to your system. Then, on the connected B > >PC, cut-n-paste the VMS-SHARE file from Notepad via the console@ > >to your system. then just run your VMS-SHARE file to "unpack": > >your files. You must have a working TPU on your system. > >i/ > >What do you mean by "need to bootstrap it" ?  > >Isn't the box booted ?s > 
 > Thanks Jan,eF > That's what I needed. I have reflection 4, and not yet a CD drive. UH > have to find the right parts to connect a SCSI CD drive to my 3100/38. > H > By bootstrap I meant a way of getting the network working (IP) withoutG > a working IP network. Hence CMU-IP. Then I can FTP the UNZIP to I anda  > then everything is splendid :) > " > Is VMS-SHARE on the Hunter site?   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 23:51:04 +0100pE From: Jamie Stallwood <this.no.work.try.something.else@project76.net>d< Subject: Re: Is it possible to write UUDecode/Encode in DCL?8 Message-ID: <5ek6ju0q7320kk8352b2gf2i96rojerl0b@4ax.com>  D On Mon, 15 Jul 2002 23:30:46 +0200, Jan-Erik Sderholm <aaa@aaa.com> wrote:   >Yes :? >http://vms.process.com/scripts/fileserv/fileserv.com?VMS_SHARE  > = >Now, be aware that you need another VMS system to build yourN >VMS-SHARE kits on.  >S! >Just thought of another thing...-> >You have Reflection you say. Reflection have (or had at least? >in the good-ol-days) a tool called VAXLINK2. The "server" part = >was downloadable from the emulator. *But* you needed a MACRO 3 >compiler on the VAX host to build the server part.    And therein lies the nub :)    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 16:27:10 -0700I5 From: "Kenneth H. Fairfield" <My.Full.Name@intel.com> < Subject: Re: Is it possible to write UUDecode/Encode in DCL?) Message-ID: <3D335A4E.F5DA4658@intel.com>d   Jamie Stallwood wrote:  F > On 15 Jul 2002 19:05:25 +0200, huber@vms.mppmu.mpg.de (Joseph Huber) > wrote: >i > >In article <6ju5jucnfst53hk8hlqs6fn131g15mq2sk@4ax.com>, Jamie Stallwood <this.no.work.try.something.else@project76.net> writes:m > >> An easy question :) > > ) > >Probably yes, You can write it in DCL.f. > >But why not use the programs written in C ? > >tC > >If You have HP/Compaq/Digital TCPIP services, then simply defineo! > >$ uudecode :== $TCPIP$UUDECODEs! > >$ uuencode :== $TCPIP$UUENCODEi > >cN > >Or look into the various freeware archives for versions of uuencode/decode. >AH > I have acquired a mchine with no TCP/IP, no MACRO, no languages, and aE > flaky kermit that stops after 1k. Hence I am trying to put stuff onTD > it, but need to bootstrap it by getting CMU-IP on, then everything > else.  >O0 > It's 5.5-2 btw, no CDA$CONVERT before you ask.  B     OK, VMS 5.5-2 means you've got VAX hardware.  Personally, I'veD never met a VAX without a/the MACRO assembler.  Ships as part of theF O/S.  Not to question your veracity, :-) but what evidence to you haveF that said MACRO assembler?  (In fact, while I can't imagine how to getE rid of the MACRO assembler, I can imagine a _really_ _twisted_ personL0 removing the MACRO verb from DCLTABLES, yuck!!!)  =     Anyway, given that you probably _do_ have MACRO, Jan-Erik73 Sderholm's post about VAXLINK2 might do for you...p       -Ken --6 I don't speak for Intel, Intel doesn't speak for me...  
 Ken Fairfieldt! F20 Automation VMS System Support- kenneth.h.fairfield#intel.com1   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2002 02:21:41 GMTD1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>1< Subject: Re: Is it possible to write UUDecode/Encode in DCL?' Message-ID: <3D338792.20FDD3A3@fsi.net>u   Jamie Stallwood wrote: > F > On Mon, 15 Jul 2002 22:06:54 +0200, Jan-Erik Sderholm <aaa@aaa.com> > wrote: > ; > >Can you have a terminal emulator connected that uses the 0 > >console (or some other hard-wired terminal) ? > >-B > >Then, if nothing else works, you could build VMS-SHARE files ofE > >anything you'd like to move to your system. Then, on the connectedcB > >PC, cut-n-paste the VMS-SHARE file from Notepad via the console@ > >to your system. then just run your VMS-SHARE file to "unpack": > >your files. You must have a working TPU on your system. > >l/ > >What do you mean by "need to bootstrap it" ?  > >Isn't the box booted ?A > 
 > Thanks Jan,u- > That's what I needed. I have reflection 4, :  H Then, if your R/4 is complete, you should have an option buried in thereB somewhere to upload the VAXLINK2 program. Look for UPLOADVX,RCL orF UPLOADVX.RBS in the Reflection directory tree if you don't find a menu0 option. All else fails, look in Reflection Help.   -- ' David J. Dachteran dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/n   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 16:44:08 -0400f- From: "Peter Weaver" <peter.weaver@stelco.ca> 5 Subject: Re: Looking for terminal session sharing pgme5 Message-ID: <agvc6u$ohcc1$1@ID-141708.news.dfncis.de>e  > "Michael Austin" <maustin@firstdbasource.com> wrote in message, news:3D2F218A.16D51BF3@firstdbasource.com... >...D > enough to correct their typing -- Although Tops10/20 did have thatI > feature. "Did you mean: xyz command (Y/N)" How difficult would it be to C > put it into VMS - that would really make those **ix guys jealous.e >...  L It is there in VMS! Take a look at http://makeashorterlink.com/?G43542541 or1 for people who want to cut and paste a long link;e  L http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&threadm=Pine.LNXL .3.96.990215105940.19074D-100000%40irys.stanpol.com.pl&rnum=1&prev=/groups%3L Fq%3Dsetdcl%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26ie%3DUTF-8%26oe%3DUTF-8%26selm%3DPine.LNX.3.@ 96.990215105940.19074D-100000%2540irys.stanpol.com.pl%26rnum%3D1  # (DO NOT TRY THIS ON AXP, ONLY VAX!)    -- Peter WeaverL Opinions are my own, and do not reflect the opinions of my employer, nor theK company that it sub-contracts to, nor the company that it sub-contracts to.m   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 20:29:13 +0100 & From: Ken Green <Ken.Green@kgcc.co.uk> Subject: Re: McKinley Cometh...m* Message-ID: <3D332289.9968E529@kgcc.co.uk>   Bill Todd wrote:  F > "Douglas Siebert" <dsiebert@excisethis.khamsin.net> wrote in message' > news:agsqr5$fsk$1@sword.avalon.net...d0 > > "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> writes: > >hK > > >If the latter's access latency is indeed only about twice as fast as aoL > > >main-memory access as you seem to suggest above (since that seems to beH > > >about the advantage that Alpha EV7's on-chip controller will enjoy;
 > Hammer'sM > > >may enjoy even a bit less IIRC, and I don't know how USIII's compares in-K > > >this area), then I suspect that the former (Madison) approach would be@M > > >preferable even at less than 1/5th the size.  But I find it difficult to5M > > >believe that HP would have put that amount of cost/packaging effort intoi > abK > > >cache that was only twice as fast as main memory, so I suspect that at  > leastaN > > >in the case of PA-RISC its off-chip L2 is likely considerably faster than
 > > >that. > >t > >cN > > I thought it was supposed to be something like 40 cycles latency.  I thinkL > > it uses so-called "1T SRAM" so it is essentially low latency DRAM ratherA > > than true SRAM, so is likely not as fast as you might expect.@ >aM > Well, that's what last year's MPF presentation for Mako (8800) says (thanksUN > to whoever provided that pointer in another context:  I found that this is aL > presentation I downloaded last January but is one of the many papers I hadL > yet to have gotten around to reading).  Since it seems to be used the sameF > way the 8700's cache is, it may well be identical (and since Mako isK > supposed to run at 1 GHz, 40 cycles = 40 ns., a bit over half what an EV7a8 > main-memory access is supposed to take - 75 ns. IIRC). >yL > So (to get back to the root of the discussion of whether Madison's 6 MB ofN > on-chip cache could compete in high-end environments as well as PA-RISC's 32 > MB of off-chip cache): >eD > I don't know what PA-RISC's current main-memory access latency is,  . IIRC the N-Class (rp7400) had a 130ns latency.G The newer systems use a cell and crossbar approach, interleaving memoryaC accesses across all the cells to give a uniform memory access time.8  " According to Kent Dickey's artical  q http://groups.google.com/groups?q=g:thl2568960329d&dq=&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&selm=8unv47%24jg0%241%40web1.cup.hp.comn  F The worse case crossing 3 cross bars is less the twice the access time as the local access.  K I guess Mako is primarily designed for this type of box, and so the latencyoM figures of the big cache whilst worse than the onchip L3 of I2 are still muche) better than the main memory access times.h   > but-L > according to an interesting paper which that same poster (mentioned above)H > referred to McKinley's best-case main-memory access latency is 112 ns.L > (using HP's zx1 chipset, a component aimed at optimizing 1- to 4-processorJ > Itanic2 configurations; if you want to handle more than 16 GB of memory,L > latency rises to 137 ns.).  Since 112 ns. is less than 3 times the latencyN > to PA-RISC's off-chip L2 cache, at least for smallish Madison configurationsN > its 6 MB of (IIRC) 12-cycle (8 to 9 ns.) on-chip L3 cache might well provideN > comparable performance to Mako's 0.75 MB instruction/0.75 MB data on-chip L1H > plus 32 MB of 40 ns. off-chip L2, and even at 137 ns. (with > 16 GB of3 > memory) things shouldn't change too dramatically.d >dI > If you want more than 4 processors, you move to a different chipset andyH > likely more latency:  the paper notes the latency of the Unisys ES7000N > 32-processor IA32 configuration as being about 300 ns., but IIRC other largeN > systems do somewhat better (i.e., they may have chosen a sub-optimal exampleJ > to make the zx1 look more impressive).  So the PA-RISC L2 could start toI > confer some noticeable benefit as main-memory access latency rises, butbM > Madison should still not look all that bad in comparison unless they rise a-F > *lot*, since IIRC McKinley's 3 MB of on-chip L3 cache (and thereforeK > presumably Madison's 6 MB of on-chip L3) has 12-cycle access latency:  12 G > ns. today at 1 GHz, probably only 8 - 9 ns. by the time Madison rolls-	 > around.H >  >   Even if itI > > wasn't much faster than main memory there'd still be the considerable-$ > > benefit of reducing bus traffic. >9M > I understand why that would be the case for POWER4 with its shared off-chipw8 > L3, but not for PA-RISC with its unshared off-chip L2. >v+ >   It could also provide a much wider path?N > > to the CPU for higher bandwidth transfers for items in the L2 cache (i.e.,3 > > lowering the total time to fill L1 cache lines)6 >jK > I suppose that's true for any data that's accessed in bulk more than onceeK > and is larger than Madison's 6 MB of cache can accommodate.  Whether suchlN > activity is common seems questionable (I know I make some effort not to redo( > such expensive operations frequently). >P > - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 21:39:08 -0500 $ From: "del cecchi" <dcecchi@msn.com> Subject: Re: McKinley Cometh...o4 Message-ID: <4ILY8.3179$2W5.43154@eagle.america.net>  8 "Anne & Lynn Wheeler" <lynn@garlic.com> wrote in message# news:u8z4jhuce.fsf@earthlink.net... 0 > David Gay <dgay@beech.CS.Berkeley.EDU> writes:H > > Some order confusion. PowerPC was derived from Power. Power was used in of B > > IBM's workstation products of the time -- how are you defining "mainstreamtF > > products" ?. I'm sure somebody here can fill in the details on the othero > > Power_n versions.  >mD > 801 came out of research. then there was a big project called FortF > Knox that would have replaced the numerous m'code engines around theH > company (including those used in the low-end and mid-range 370s); thatF > got killed. At about this time i believe you started to see some 801= > chip engineers showing up working on risc projects at othern > companies. >5H > Then 801 ROMP (Research OPD Micro Processor) project was started to beF > a office products displaywriter follow-on with CPr as base operatingD > system (and PL.8 language). I believe there was then some analysisE > that while a ROMP-based displaywriter was cost effective given enufrH > seats sharing the same machine ... that the least expensive ROMP-based@ > displaywriter was still more expensive that the most expensiveF > acceptable displaywriter configuration. That spawned the morphing ofE > ROMP/CPr into the PC/RT workstation using the company that had been,? > hired to do the PC/IX port .... doing the port to VMR machine D > abstraction layer (which retained some amount of the original PL.8 > technology & technicians). > H > Then came RIOS/POWER (and RS/6000, as follow-on to PC/RT) ... and thenE > somerset project (joint with motorola) for power/pc (aka 601) (alsoeD > involving apple). Up until somerset/powerpc a basic premise of 801G > chip designs had been non-cache coherent shared memory multiprocessor-G > (actually no multiprocessing except for a special 4-way RSC aka "RIOSrC > single chip" implementation that didn't support cache coherency).:C > RS/6000 workstations continued on with both RIOS/POWER & POWER/PC5E > chipsets (for some time you could tell power from power/pc based on ? > whether they supported multiprocessor configurations or not).  >nF > With the as/400 moving to a power/pc chipset ... some things sort of% > came full circle back to Fort Knox.e (snip)  G The ROMP stuff was way before fort knox, as I recall.  It was presentedu  at the first MicroProcessor ITL.G And you left out the part about the emulation assist processors and they unified operating system. :-)n  H Actually, one of the German 4300 machines was made out of the remains of. fort knox, with an iliad and eap.  4361 maybe?
 del cecchi > --+ > Anne & Lynn Wheeler   | lynn@garlic.com -  http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/   ------------------------------    Date: 15 Jul 2002 22:26:20 -0700, From: michaelpettengill@earthlink.net (MULP) Subject: Re: McKinley Cometh...-= Message-ID: <61c1c25a.0207152126.6f1437af@posting.google.com>m  g "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com> wrote in message news:<gHgW8.438259$352.61859@sccrnsc02>...D. > And the performance looks surprisingly good! > + > More at www.tru64.org and www.openvms.org2  D So, what!  Alpha has demonstrated that performance doesn't determine the success of a chip.  C Or is the point that Intel has finally managed to announce it after) all this time?  C The real question is what is the volume and what is the price.  For' chips and systems.  C If Itanium2 costs as much as, or more than, Alpha, Power4, and more = than Sparc, which its current announced pricing indicates....u  E There is no question that Hammer and Sledgehammer will ship in higher D volumes - unless AMD somehow disappears.  That means that 99% of theC applications that would like to have 64 bits will be supported by af volume chip.  C Windows will support IA64 to the same degree that it support 32 bitCE windows on Alpha - as long as someone pays them to do it.  Hammer, onwF the otherhand will be a huge market, so there will be a 64 bit version of windows for that.  B This leaves IA64 fighting with SPARC and Power for the small super= computer market, with each supported by a base of proprietary2 operating systems.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 19:49:51 +0200p9 From: Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com>3' Subject: Re: Microvax gathering dust...v' Message-ID: <3D330B3F.5333D29B@aaa.com>c  . What you can *not* hand over, is the *licens*.  0 The *CD* should be no problem. You friend could 5 just as well use an original Compaq VMS distribution,  if he could find any.r   Jan-Erik Sderholm.g   Da Beave wrote:   < > This brings up a question.  I have a friend that has a VAXC > and he was looking to load the hobbyist kit for grins and to do ahB > little bit of personal R&D (Play... non-comercial use).  He asksC > me,  "hey,  can I have a copy of your CD".  I normally don't feeltE > bad in saying, "no man,  but you can get it for $30.00".  I do this C > for two reason.  1> Support the hobbyist program (its only $30.00hF > bucks! And look what you get!).  2>  I have a pretty good feeling it< > would probably violate my license agreement as a hobbyist. >p   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 21:50:13 +0200e, From: "Jakob Erber" <erberj@yahoo.de_nospam> Subject: MQSeriess, Message-ID: <3d3327a6$1@news.swissonline.ch>   Hello,  H is there somebody out there, who is using MQSeries from IBM for VMS AXP?; I would be glad to hear about expriences with this product.t   regardsr   Jakob Erbert   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 22:14:59 +0200b9 From: Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com>w Subject: Re: MQSeriesn' Message-ID: <3D332D43.1347D68E@aaa.com>U  8 I know a case where it's used to glue together a DEC/EDI6 installation on VMS/Alpha with a "native" MQS on a IBM? mainframe system. As far as I know (don't work with it directlyl; myself) it at least "works". Have been used for years underc fairly heavy load.  * I'v no idea about cost, support and so on.   Jan-Erik Sderholm.g         Jakob Erber wrote: >  > Hello, > J > is there somebody out there, who is using MQSeries from IBM for VMS AXP?= > I would be glad to hear about expriences with this product.N > 	 > regardsa > 
 > Jakob ErberV   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 20:54:59 GMTh# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>u Subject: Re: MQSeriesoI Message-ID: <DEGY8.67405$WJf1.15315@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>p  7 "Jakob Erber" <erberj@yahoo.de_nospam> wrote in message & news:3d3327a6$1@news.swissonline.ch... > Hello, >eJ > is there somebody out there, who is using MQSeries from IBM for VMS AXP?= > I would be glad to hear about expriences with this product.r  L I have not used it on VMS, but I have used it extensively on Solaris and AIXK (1994-2000). It works exactly as advertised. It is pretty easy to use...you G really only need concern yourself with about 4-5 command verbs for most 
 applications.:   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 19:30:49 -0400l) From: "Neil Rieck" <n.rieck@sympatico.ca>e Subject: Re: MQSeries>8 Message-ID: <NWIY8.1645$o7.545544@news20.bellglobal.com>  F My boss wanted me to write an MQSeries interface for our Alpha VMS-7.2G system. However, I ran into some problems when this particular job alsocJ required that the MQSeries client software at my end would need to connectK to a distant MQSeries queue via a non-standard (proprietary) VPN. Since the J only VPN client available was for Windows, I decided to create an MQSeriesJ gateway machine on a PC (which was running MQSeries Client as well as someH custom software written in Visual-C under Windows-2000) which would thenG connect to a second PC (running a demo version of MQSeries Server undereE Windows-2000) for simulated testing between the two. Our Alpha starts K everything by FTPing to the first PC. The first PC then converts from ASCIIcJ to EBCDIC then sends to the second PC. Then the first PC then pulls it allK back and sends it to the Alpha. In the production software the second PC is L replaced by our remote customer's MQSeries system which is running on an IBM OS-390.n  9 The following URL may, or may not, be of some use to you.e  
 Neil Rieck Kitchener/Waterloo/Cambridge,. Ontario, Canada.E http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/docs/mqseries_client_on_openvms.htmll  7 "Jakob Erber" <erberj@yahoo.de_nospam> wrote in message#& news:3d3327a6$1@news.swissonline.ch... > Hello, > J > is there somebody out there, who is using MQSeries from IBM for VMS AXP?= > I would be glad to hear about expriences with this product.  >?	 > regardsD >3
 > Jakob Erber3 >i   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 21:02:38 -0500 + From: Shael Richmond <ksrich@bellsouth.net>  Subject: Re: MQSeriesm- Message-ID: <3D337EBE.C8B79CF8@bellsouth.net>o   Jakob Erber wrote:   > Hello, >)J > is there somebody out there, who is using MQSeries from IBM for VMS AXP?= > I would be glad to hear about expriences with this product.o  C We've used version 2.2 for years on the Alpha.  We have a couple ofn	 locations H using version 5.1 now.  It works fine, we use it to communicate from the Alpha's J at remote sites to a central mainframe.  We even do a little with Windows.  J Overall it's stable and works good.  We've seen a few cases where it seems9 to step on itself.  VMS specific support is iffy at best.m   Shaelu   ------------------------------    Date: 15 Jul 2002 20:03:23 -0700# From: beantown31@hotmail.com (Evan)  Subject: Re: MQSeriesl< Message-ID: <47ab7ff7.0207151903.76c7819@posting.google.com>  t "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> wrote in message news:<DEGY8.67405$WJf1.15315@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>...9 > "Jakob Erber" <erberj@yahoo.de_nospam> wrote in messageo( > news:3d3327a6$1@news.swissonline.ch...
 > > Hello, > >0L > > is there somebody out there, who is using MQSeries from IBM for VMS AXP?? > > I would be glad to hear about expriences with this product.$ > N > I have not used it on VMS, but I have used it extensively on Solaris and AIXM > (1994-2000). It works exactly as advertised. It is pretty easy to use...youtI > really only need concern yourself with about 4-5 command verbs for most  > applications.m  F my experience has been painful. we've recently upgraded to v5 and haveD been working out problems for several weeks. ibm has very little vmsC support and virtually none in the states. we recently dropped mqsi,wF another type of message transfer they offer. i'd look for alternatives   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 15:48:34 -040002 From: Atlant Schmidt <atlantnospam@mindspring.com>) Subject: Re: Mysterious non-spinning diskD. Message-ID: <3D332712.4F252CC9@mindspring.com>  5 I think I remember a SCSI Bus protocol for sequencingR	 spin-ups.X  6 Also, there definitely is the ability to set mode page+ values for auto-spin-up, only-spin-up-when-,4 commanded, and the like, and there may be jumpers as: well, so there are plenty of opportunities for "software",8 "firmware", and configuration problems to get in the way4 of what many think of as a very fundamental process.1 SCSI device ID conflicts and termination problemsu7 would definitely make it hard to spin up a drive if thex! drive isn't set for auto-spin-up.a   Atlant   ------------------------------    Date: 15 Jul 2002 15:02:14 -0700, From: colive@technologEase.com (Chris Olive)= Subject: Old CompuServe VAXforum libraries archived anywhere?-= Message-ID: <b10654c6.0207151402.680d5230@posting.google.com>   F Does anyone know if the library files from the old CompuServe VAXFORUMC are archived anywhere on the internet?  I'm looking for a program I F know I submitted publically once called DMPSYM.  I thought I submittedE it to the WKU FILESERV or DECUS, but it's not in either place, so I'm @ thinking maybe I submitted it to the VAXFORUM back when that wasA active.  So if anyone knows of a VAXFORUM archive on the InternetcD somewhere, that would be great (though I realize the chances of this? are small since the overall usefulness of it would be minimal).o   Chrisy -----  Chris Olivea colive(at)technologEase(dot)comw   ------------------------------   Date: 16 Jul 02 01:41:09 +0200) From: p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture)lA Subject: Re: Old CompuServe VAXforum libraries archived anywhere? ) Message-ID: <1CVxaJf+3baD@elias.decus.ch>t  l In article <b10654c6.0207151402.680d5230@posting.google.com>, colive@technologEase.com (Chris Olive) writes:H > Does anyone know if the library files from the old CompuServe VAXFORUME > are archived anywhere on the internet?  I'm looking for a program IrH > know I submitted publically once called DMPSYM.  I thought I submittedG > it to the WKU FILESERV or DECUS, but it's not in either place, so I'm0B > thinking maybe I submitted it to the VAXFORUM back when that wasC > active.  So if anyone knows of a VAXFORUM archive on the InternetoF > somewhere, that would be great (though I realize the chances of thisA > are small since the overall usefulness of it would be minimal).f >   ; Ask Steve Lionel? I think he has an Intel address nowadays.r   __
 Paul Sture Switzerlande   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2002 03:05:02 GMTc' From: Stuart Fuller <stufuller@usa.net>cA Subject: Re: Old CompuServe VAXforum libraries archived anywhere? 0 Message-ID: <luvvga.mva.ln@dadsys1.fuller.local>   Chris Olive wrote:  H > Does anyone know if the library files from the old CompuServe VAXFORUME > are archived anywhere on the internet?  I'm looking for a program IcH > know I submitted publically once called DMPSYM.  I thought I submittedG > it to the WKU FILESERV or DECUS, but it's not in either place, so I'msB > thinking maybe I submitted it to the VAXFORUM back when that wasC > active.  So if anyone knows of a VAXFORUM archive on the InternetcF > somewhere, that would be great (though I realize the chances of thisA > are small since the overall usefulness of it would be minimal).a >  > Chrism > -----i
 > Chris Olivep! > colive(at)technologEase(dot)com    Zowie!  J I'll have to look around - I had downloaded everything from the VAX Forum K just before we closed up shop.  Only problem is: I don't know where it is, l or if it still exists!  
 Wish me luck.            StuI   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 23:37:04 -0400e' From: Howard S Shubs <howard@shubs.net>nA Subject: Re: Old CompuServe VAXforum libraries archived anywhere?v< Message-ID: <howard-377131.23370415072002@enews.newsguy.com>  0 In article <luvvga.mva.ln@dadsys1.fuller.local>,)  Stuart Fuller <stufuller@usa.net> wrote:e   > Wish me luck.r   Luck!:   -- a# "Run in circles, scream and shout!"S I hope you have good backups!g) Are there any more networked SJFs around?h   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 22:53:56 -0500t( From: Rich Jordan <duodec@speakeasy.net>7 Subject: Re: OpenSSL and certificates concept questionss* Message-ID: <3D3398D4.90209@speakeasy.net>   Larry Kilgallen wrote:u > In article <70aaeb1e.0207142258.7d6400dc@posting.google.com>, asn1@rd.francetelecom.com (Olivier Dubuisson) writes:h > ^ >>Rich Jordan <duodec@speakeasy.net> wrote in message news:<3D30A52E.1080706@speakeasy.net>... >> >>>Larry Kilgallen wrote:b >>>o[ >>>>In article <3D2FB543.9020500@speakeasy.net>, Rich Jordan <duodec@speakeasy.net> writes:t >>>>9 >>>>>Who designed the x.509 certs and the SSL API anyway?i >>>>H >>>>I don't know about the SSL API, but the x.509 certificates are quiteH >>>>nice to work with.  The trick is that you should not try to code forI >>>>them by hand.  Use an ASN.1 tool that generates code in your favoritee >>>>programming language.r >>>r/ >>>Are there any such available under OpenVMS? t >>; >>Yes. At least I know of OSS Nokalva (http://www.oss.com).u >> >>O. Dubuisson >  > @ > And if you want a good _book_ regarding ASN.1, look for one byA > Olivier Dubuisson.  It is available in English, translated fromqB > the French.  There is another good book by John Larmouth.  These( > people are both real experts on ASN.1. > ? > If I included ISBN numbers, you would know this post was from06 > an imposter whose library is more orderly than mine.  < Found both books at the oss.com website.  Much appreciated! C Unfortunately as yet there is $0 budget for the work (I bought the  D O'Reilly OpenSSL book myself since I'll be able to use it on my own E systems later) so any non-free downloads aren't in the cards and the wG ASN.1 software in that category was wintel only.  I may still download  E it when there's time.  The books (which are free downloads!), on the hI other hand, are next on the study trail after OpenSSL.  Thanks very much 0! for this website and those books!w   Rich Jordant   ------------------------------  + Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 11:05:09 -0700 (PDT)t. From: Fabio Cardoso <fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br>/ Subject: OpenVMS 7.3 - XFC ECO 2 !!! When ?????o@ Message-ID: <20020715180509.43212.qmail@web20206.mail.yahoo.com>  + I would like a postion of the XFC ECO 2  ? n  * A few threads ago, Hoffmann promised it to 12-JUL-2002. Until now - nothing ! / We tested our ES-40 with the XFC activated and w5 we had great results of performance with ORDB 7.0-64.u3 But, despite the problems with the cache, we turnedw the system to VIOC ! a   Regards    FC f   =====v ========================== Fbio dos Santos Cardoso OpenVMS System Manager Rio de Janeiro - Brazil  fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br ==========================  2 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!?, Yahoo! Autos - Get free new car price quotes http://autos.yahoo.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 16:23:27 -0400 1 From: "Mark D. Jilson" <jilly@clarityconnect.com>L3 Subject: Re: OpenVMS 7.3 - XFC ECO 2 !!! When ?????S2 Message-ID: <3D332F3F.1458729A@clarityconnect.com>  E The XFC patch kit for OpenVMS Alpha V7.3 will be released on or aboutsA the same time that OpenVMS Alpha V7.3-1 is released.  The releasefE process for these two is different and thus the release may not occurc7 simultaneously.  See previously posted release plans ata www.openvms.compaq.com.    Fabio Cardoso wrote: > , > I would like a postion of the XFC ECO 2  ? > , > A few threads ago, Hoffmann promised it to > 12-JUL-2002. > Until now - nothing !o0 > We tested our ES-40 with the XFC activated and7 > we had great results of performance with ORDB 7.0-64. 5 > But, despite the problems with the cache, we turned. > the system to VIOC ! > 	 > Regardse >  > FC >  > =====s > ========================== > Fbio dos Santos Cardoso > OpenVMS System Manager > Rio de Janeiro - BrazilT > fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br > ========================== > 4 > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!?. > Yahoo! Autos - Get free new car price quotes > http://autos.yahoo.com   -- eC Jilly	- Working from Home in the Chemung River Valley - Waverly, NYr0 	- jilly@clarityconnect.com			- Brett Bodine fan+ 	- Mark.Jilson@hp.com				- since 1975 or so  	- http://www.jilly.baka.com   ------------------------------    Date: 15 Jul 2002 22:58:57 -0700, From: michaelpettengill@earthlink.net (MULP)J Subject: Re: OpenVMS on third-party platforms (was: Re: VMS port delayed!)= Message-ID: <61c1c25a.0207152158.72627fb2@posting.google.com>a  d hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) wrote in message news:<agcmo7$qav$1@web1.cup.hp.com>... > G >   OpenVMS Engineering has historically implemented nothing that wouldiI >   explicitly prevent OpenVMS from bootstrapping on third-party VAX and tI >   third-party Alpha platforms, and OpenVMS Engineering has specifically'F >   provided mechanisms to add platform support for new and otherwise I >   unrecognized Alpha platforms via the (documented) SHIP kit mechanism.a  C Well, for VAX and Alpha, DEC had patents and licenses that provided B DEC with revenue from the hardware sales.  The levels for the feesD were set to support DEC's interests in those platforms being offeredA by 3rd parties.  While the ruggedized systems might have paid low B royalties, the terms of the licenses didn't allow real competition with DEC's system business.,  E The situation with IA64 is quite different.  I'm not going to hold myiD breath waiting for the opportunity to buy a VMS system from Dell, orA even a white box company manned by former DEC VMS development and B support engineers, because I'm sure that HPQ will ensure that such competitors will fail.  D We don't have to wait to see what the prospects are for VMS.  Who isC running HP/UX on any hardware that didn't come from HP?  Until that3A happens, its a sure thing that VMS won't be available on anything* other than HP hardware.l   ------------------------------    Date: 15 Jul 2002 11:16:05 -0700. From: SPAMSINK2001@YAHOO.COM (Alan E. Feldman) Subject: Re: RECALL suggestion< Message-ID: <343f30ae.0207151016.b3a77d4@posting.google.com>  d "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> wrote in message news:<CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJICEMMFFAA.tom@kednos.com>...K > When looking at previous commands ( ^B or ^)  a new line is generate each  > time.D > M > This is plainly wrong.  It should be done on the current line, as bash does0 > it.o > A > with ENTER being the arbiter of what goes on the history stack.0    D Check your terminal settings. It works fine for me. If your terminalD type is set to "Unknown", then you will get the wrong behaviour. Try/ SET TERMINAL/INQUIRE or SET TERMINAL/DEV=VT100.      Disclaimer: JMHO Alan E. FeldmanE afeldman gfigroup comn   ------------------------------    Date: 15 Jul 2002 15:32:26 -0700# From: beantown31@hotmail.com (Evan)  Subject: RMS Buffers= Message-ID: <47ab7ff7.0207151432.6902a583@posting.google.com>r  = In considering adding buffers to some of my files to increase-C performance, I'm wondering what resources that memory will deplete,mC gblpages and glbpagfile? And what other sysgen parameters should beM+ considered when making this type of change.c   EW   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2002 00:20:07 GMTo From: sasadmin <jec@nospam.net>n Subject: Re: RMS Buffers2 Message-ID: <87ele4cxdj.fsf@Alethion.systasis.net>  % beantown31@hotmail.com (Evan) writes:o  ? > In considering adding buffers to some of my files to increaserE > performance, I'm wondering what resources that memory will deplete, E > gblpages and glbpagfile? And what other sysgen parameters should beB- > considered when making this type of change.  >  > EW   Evan:s  > We need a little bit more information to answer your question:   1) What's the file organization    2) How many users do you expectt    3) What VMS version you're using  C w/r/t/ system parameters, the RMS documentation is a good start for.  basic familiarity w/ RMS tuning.   -- o Microsoft Free By 2003   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 15:02:42 -0400m- From: Jonathan Boswell <jsb@ost.cdrh.fda.gov> 8 Subject: TCPIP Services anti-spam feature for SMTP relay0 Message-ID: <3D331C52.3A58ED19@ost.cdrh.fda.gov>  N Is there any way to get TCPIP Services for VMS V5.3 to use either SMTP AUTH orG POP-before-SMTP authentication mechanisms for SMTP relay?  The existinguJ anti-spam capabilities appear to prevent legitimate users in the wild fromP sending mail using my VMS servers as their SMTP relay node.  The POP-before-SMTPN scheme looks ideal to me since none of my (formerly existing on a Unix server)3 users would even have to reconfigure their clients.e    -  JB   ------------------------------    Date: 15 Jul 2002 15:37:41 -0700( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)< Subject: Re: TCPIP Services anti-spam feature for SMTP relay= Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0207151437.77b04d26@posting.google.com>p  e Jonathan Boswell <jsb@ost.cdrh.fda.gov> wrote in message news:<3D331C52.3A58ED19@ost.cdrh.fda.gov>...eP > Is there any way to get TCPIP Services for VMS V5.3 to use either SMTP AUTH orI > POP-before-SMTP authentication mechanisms for SMTP relay?  The existingaL > anti-spam capabilities appear to prevent legitimate users in the wild fromR > sending mail using my VMS servers as their SMTP relay node.  The POP-before-SMTPP > scheme looks ideal to me since none of my (formerly existing on a Unix server)5 > users would even have to reconfigure their clients.n >  >  -  JB  D that's not a problem with TCPware ... I can allow any user or domain@ to relay based on ip address ... sort of smtp packet filters ...  the same is true of multinet ...   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 20:15:51 +0200 4 From: "Heinz Oswald" <Heinz.Oswald@gero-computer.de>A Subject: Re: Terminal Emu to MicroVaxII - typed characters effecte/ Message-ID: <agv3gm$5uj$01$1@news.t-online.com>s   >nL > It is normal to run VMS systems with the echo function at the microVAX endD > and to disable the local echo on the terminal. Likely you have the terminal set to L > echo, and local echo enabled in the terminal emulator. An obvious check is that2 > passwords will be echoed (once) with this setup. >s >h? that was my mirst idea, but local echo in the emulation is off.8  E I switched it on , saved settings, yes now characters appear 4 times.s, switched back off. characters still doubled.   hmmm.M   Regards,   Heinzg   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 20:26:51 +0200f4 From: "Heinz Oswald" <Heinz.Oswald@gero-computer.de>A Subject: Re: Terminal Emu to MicroVaxII - typed characters effect / Message-ID: <agv459$6o2$01$1@news.t-online.com>m  ; > > The VAX serves as a controller for a processing center.a6 > > (seems it has been there since years and running ) > 1 > And probably will keep running. Welcome to VMS.  >t< like that, years ago I found 2 servers running Banyan Vines.K the old administrator had been kicked and nobody in that company ( not thatr
 with the Vax)DJ knew, on what servers their files had been. But all in production - wheww.$ But I was very familiar with Banyan.  G > > As a quick solution, I attached a Notebook with Windows and a VT340e > > Emulation.J > > It worked fine until last Thursday. Now it seems to double keystrokes. > > The effect is: > > typing W gives WWw > > typing L gives Lo >B > Did you mean LL ?  No, indeed its WW L.bC When I type letter O it follows an i with two dots.( like in frenchb
 language).     >xH > This is a setting on the PC, it is giving you LOCAL ECHO or is set forI > HALF DUPLEX. It is difficult to know where it will be in your emulationh
 > package. >a4 I already checked settings for local echo. it's OFF. will check HALF DUPLEX tomorrowu    I > As to why it has changed, well things don't happen by themselves, but Ir > would not want to speculate. > C I assume, the man at the proccessing center accidently hit a key org combination.C He had to press Fn-O for the NUM-minus key  to go back from a menu.  It's a notebook keyboard.:    H > I would have expected to see the same effect, but going into an editorF > does usually send an initialization command to a terminal, which may > alter the emulation.  A No , it was the Windows Editor, just to check that Windows had noe, problem with the keyboard. Not a VMS editor.    H > I'm thrown by the editor not giving you this problem. It may help yourC > fault finding if you had a loopback connector (connect receive totH > transmit on your PC-emulator) and if all is correct I'd only expect toI > see single characters. Seeing dual means that the PC is echoing what itt   I will try that tomorrow.e  B > If you tell us the name of the terminal emulation package, thoseE > familiar with it should be able to guide your fault finding in moreJ	 > detail.0   E-TERM32  from www.dcsi.coml   Regards,   Heinzv   ------------------------------    Date: 15 Jul 2002 11:39:07 -0700- From: roli@barmettler.net (Roland Barmettler).' Subject: Re: Trouble with BACKUP/RECORDi< Message-ID: <235cf5c3.0207151039.ea54021@posting.google.com>   > % > Did you try it with /NOINCREMENTAL?g   Yes, I did. I didn't help...   Greetings, RolandM   ------------------------------    Date: 15 Jul 2002 13:25:29 -0600 From: briggs@encompasserve.org Subject: RE: un-INITing a tape?V3 Message-ID: <R2ISHW+dr5if@eisner.encompasserve.org>w  ` In article <OPEPIPEJGHNICIJKJFEAIELOEOAA.dallen@nist.gov>, "Dan Allen" <dallen@nist.gov> writes: > R > 	I find it interesting that many DLT tapes have an ERASE function that literallyR > 	erases (degausses) the entire length of the tape.  What would be the purpose ofP > 	this lengthy operation if the data is not readable once a new EOT is written? > R > 	I have succeeded in reading past EOT on vintage tape drives and have heard thatR > 	some newer drives did not allow this operation but have no current state of theP > 	art experience to offer other than my observation above.  It would seem to be > 	pretty easily tested??m  I The bad guys aren't constrained by the same firmware limitations that the 7 good guys are.  Or at least it is prudent to assume so.S  H It might cost you some tens of thousands of dollars to lose a particular@ piece of data.  You recover it from backup, re-enter from sourceF documents or lose a particular piece of business.  But that same pieceF of data might be worth some tens of millions of dollars to a potential
 adversary.  G Guess who is better motivated to use high end data recovery techniques?a  D By the same token, while you as a good guy are not well motivated toC invest in high end data recovery equipment (a good backup scheme is D cheaper and more effective), you should be well motivated to protect your data against the bad guys.e  ? The code to implement an erase function is cheap.  And it foils.4 (or at least increases the cost of) a viable attack.   	John Briggs   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 14:36:56 -0400r# From: "Dan Allen" <dallen@nist.gov>  Subject: RE: un-INITing a tape?b: Message-ID: <OPEPIPEJGHNICIJKJFEAAEMBEOAA.dallen@nist.gov>  T 	Agreed that "bad" guys will go to considerable effort, down to and including customM 	hard/firmware.  A bulk degausser is a very effective countermeasure as is anaQ 	incinerator if you are no longer in need of the media ;-)  Be that as it may, itiQ 	seems we need some testing to determine what if anything the current VMS driversi 	and drives can/will do.   > -----Original Message-----B > From: briggs@encompasserve.org [mailto:briggs@encompasserve.org]% > Sent: Monday, July 15, 2002 3:25 PMo > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comp! > Subject: RE: un-INITing a tape?o >  > b > In article <OPEPIPEJGHNICIJKJFEAIELOEOAA.dallen@nist.gov>, "Dan Allen" <dallen@nist.gov> writes: > > T > > 	I find it interesting that many DLT tapes have an ERASE function that literallyT > > 	erases (degausses) the entire length of the tape.  What would be the purpose ofR > > 	this lengthy operation if the data is not readable once a new EOT is written? > > T > > 	I have succeeded in reading past EOT on vintage tape drives and have heard thatT > > 	some newer drives did not allow this operation but have no current state of theR > > 	art experience to offer other than my observation above.  It would seem to be > > 	pretty easily tested??r > K > The bad guys aren't constrained by the same firmware limitations that then9 > good guys are.  Or at least it is prudent to assume so.g > J > It might cost you some tens of thousands of dollars to lose a particularB > piece of data.  You recover it from backup, re-enter from sourceH > documents or lose a particular piece of business.  But that same pieceH > of data might be worth some tens of millions of dollars to a potential > adversary. > I > Guess who is better motivated to use high end data recovery techniques?  > F > By the same token, while you as a good guy are not well motivated toE > invest in high end data recovery equipment (a good backup scheme ishF > cheaper and more effective), you should be well motivated to protect! > your data against the bad guys.  > A > The code to implement an erase function is cheap.  And it foils 6 > (or at least increases the cost of) a viable attack. >  > 	John Briggs >    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 23:09:15 +0200e From: Dirk Munk <munk@home.nl> Subject: Re: un-INITing a tape?a& Message-ID: <3D3339FB.2010203@home.nl>   briggs@encompasserve.org wrote: I > In article <3D314DC2.6030601@home.nl>, Dirk Munk <munk@home.nl> writes:f >  >>antonio.carlini wrote: >>1 >>>Many years ago you had nice simple 9 track (orr2 >>>maybe even 7 track) tapes where the drive could4 >>>just keep going until it picked up the datastream	 >>>again.t >>Q >>Yes, I did that with a 9 track tape. I did write it was along time ago :-). It  Q >>was a spare tape from our bank that was used for information about payments to eQ >>our company. (normaly our own tapes were used). I was able to extract a lot of nP >>data for other customers. I stumbled on the possiblity to read beyond the EOT N >>mark because the tape was in EBCDIC, and I had to copy the contents to disk ( >>before my Cobol program could read it. >  > G > Strictly speaking, you're not talking about reading past the EOT markT > here.  > F > On nine track tapes, the EOT mark is a reflective strip that appearsH > some twenty or thirty feet before the actual physical end of tape.  ItE > doesn't interfere with the magnetic data on the tape.  You can read C > right over it.  On writing, if you hit the EOT mark, an alternateeF > status is returned.  And the application (or mag tape ACP process asD > the case may be) needs to start thinking about cleanly closing outB > one volume and starting the next.  Otherwise you run the risk ofD > reading clear off the end of the tape and detaching the Mylar from > the reel.  > @ > (BOT is an identical reflective strip about ten or twenty feetA > in from the physical start of the media.  Duplicate BOT markersYB > resulted in one VAX Magic session that I fondly remember to thisI > day -- one drive scanned forward to the mark and one scanned backwards.2A > One reel of tape with two dissimilar data sets as viewed by thec > respective drives).C > C > What you write as part of that clean end-of-volume close out is a>B > pair of back to back tape marks.  On unlabelled mag tape, a pairF > of back to back tape marks is conventionally taken as end of volume.8 > On labelled tape, you get a set of EOV labels as well.  M You're right. What I meant with the EOT mark was the last of the double tape pP marks at the end of the data. When you mount a tape as foreign, the labels will P be seen as data too. Hence a labeled tape with one data file will contain three Q files when you access the tape as foreign. (labels at the start of the tape, the eQ data file, labels at the end of the tape). To get from 'file' to 'file' you have cO to use the set mag /skip commands to skip over the tape marks. After I skipped  8 over the last tape mark, the old data became accessible.     > I > (A tape mark is a feature of standard mag tape.  There are three things E > that can go on standard mag tape.  data blocks, interblock gaps and_
 > tape marks)  > H > Reading past EOV is no big trick.  The problem is that you're probablyB > reading past the data written by one pass of the write heads andB > into data from some prior pass that hasn't been overwritten yet.< > At the boundary between the new and old data, the stuff onF > the tape is indeterminate.  The boundary isn't clean.  At a minimum,@ > you've got an alignment error of around half a bit.  If you'reH > recording in GCR (6250 BPI group coded recording) you've probably comeA > in in the middle of a group.  If you're recording in some otherfF > fancy format (like DAT or DLT) you've probably come in in the middle! > of some logical data structure.p > C > On plain old 9 track, this will manifest as a parity error at thexE > line of demarcation between new data and old.  On DAT or DLT it may 9 > well manifest as "position lost" (game over, you lose).s > @ > "position lost" comes from a background in the transition fromE > start/stop to streaming tape drives.  Originally, tape drives wouldHB > stop the tape after reading (or writing) each block and start itK > up again to read (or write) the next.  The decelleration and acceleration C > had to take place within the interblock gap.  About half an inch.bD > To get good data rates, you had to either use really strong motorsA > or buffer some tape using tension arms or vacuum columns.  ThiscJ > meant that fast tape drives were expensive.  As electronics got cheaper,J > an alternative approach was devised:  The streaming tape drive.  InsteadC > of stopping and restarting the tape, you would simply let it keepfJ > going.  With any luck, you'd get the next read (or write) request beforeN > the tape had advanced to the point where you next needed to read (or write). > K > But inevitably, you wouldn't always get the next read (or write) in time. B > And you'd have to back up the tape and get a running start.  TheH > resulting tape motion is a back and forth "tape scrubbing" action that > can be amusing to watch.  P Yeah, it was amusing. We called it "the swinging tape machine". We had a Cypher J unit (also sold by DEC under their own brand), and it was to fast for our $ PDP-11. It was swinging like mad :-)     > F > But the point is that in backing up and getting a running start, oneF > critical thing is that the drive firmware must know where it is.  ItD > must resume reading (or writing) at the right place.  If the drive= > firmware loses its place, no reliable recovery is possible.o? > Conservatively written firmware accordingly returns a failurenD > status ("position lost") and continues returning that status until0 > position is recovered, typically by rewinding. > G > Drive firmware on DATs and DLTs tends to behave in this same way whendE > commanded to read out into the weeds.  It will return a fatal error 0 > and refuse to read further out into the weeds. > F > Data recovery firms presumably use firmware that can be commanded toA > read out into the weeds in the metaphorical hope of finding thef > neighbor's garden. >  > 	John Briggs   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 18:20:09 GMTl0 From: prune@ZAnkh-Morpork.mv.com (Paul Winalski) Subject: Re: VMS commitmente9 Message-ID: <3d33113b.3175175821@proxy.news.easynews.com>e  < On Mon, 15 Jul 2002 07:09:12 -0500, "Lucas, Edward A (SAIC)" <Edward.Lucas@bp.com> wrote:  G >The stupid company I work for has decided that VMS is going away.  Them- >merger with HP signals the way for UNIX. : (fF >This week I need to start a project called "VAX Elimination project". >(dingle berries)r >iA >Can someone please send me the link where HP commits to OpenVMS.mI >I need some fire power.  These dingle berries deciding that VMS is going ; >away and the costs are too high need to find another job. o  4 Or perhaps YOU need to find another job. [ 1/2 :-) ]  D Seriously, I have grave doubts that HP, regardless of what they say,F is committed to doing anything with VMS other than stringing along itsB captive installed base and milking it for all it's worth as a cashE cow.  I advise being very careful to look at what they do, as opposedmB to what they say.  There are some positive signs that HP may treat= VMS better than Compaq or the GQ Bob Palmer regime at Digital9E did, but IMO the jury's still out and it's too early to say just what.@ HP is going to do with/about/to VMS in the long term.  I'd guess, that HP probably doesn't really know itself.  D Returning to your situation, a "VAX Elimination Project" is probably? well overdue.  Your company might well find that the savings inbE the electricity bill alone would more than pay for buying more moderngA hardware than VAXes (e.g., modern Alphas).  A **VMS** eliminationnA project might or might not be the right decision.  But I woudln't0) automatically  assume it's the wrong one.   
 ---------- Remove 'Z' to reply by email.n   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 18:56:52 GMT@( From: Don Sykes <annonymous@pacbell.net> Subject: Re: VMS commitmentn* Message-ID: <3D331B7B.365B5E9@pacbell.net>   "Lucas, Edward A (SAIC)" wrote:e >  > Hello everyone,S > H > The stupid company I work for has decided that VMS is going away.  The. > merger with HP signals the way for UNIX. : (G > This week I need to start a project called "VAX Elimination project".a > (dingle berries) > B > Can someone please send me the link where HP commits to OpenVMS.J > I need some fire power.  These dingle berries deciding that VMS is goingH > away and the costs are too high need to find another job.  I have beenK > working with VMS for over 16 years and I am so sick and tired of everyonedM > blaming the VAX's/Alpha's for every little problem, and each time we have a-G > problem its always another platform. ( You think I would become numb)r > M > Please help. We have the opening meeting Thursday, and at that time I wouldc+ > like to present all information possible.DN > These dingle berries feel they well be able to eliminate the VMS environment4 > for around 2.5 mil. (daaaaaa, maybe around 9 mil.) > F Have them do a Google search on Unix security problems. One I found atE http://linux.oreillynet.com/pub/a/linux/2001/01/30/insecurities.html hM a Linux advocacy site that also includes general Unix news, the page starts :wP 	"Welcome to the Security Alerts column, an overview of new Unix and open sourceE security-related advisories and news. Problems this week include" ...c   Problems THIS WEEK ?!?!?!mH Challenge them to find a weekly, monthly or even yearly site on such VMS security issues.     -- f   Have VMS. Will Travel. Wire Paladin (@alphase.com) 
 San Franciscor   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 16:10:39 -0400$ From: "GD" <gdixon@frognet.net>h Subject: Re: VMS commitmentf. Message-ID: <3d3328a1$1_3@corp.newsgroups.com>  . Check out the DIICOE pages on the Compaq site.  A http://www.openvms.compaq.com/solutions/government/coe/index.htmlu   excerpt:C As part of the DII COE initiative, OpenVMS Engineering is enhancingo@ some OpenVMS interfaces commonly available on UNIX systems. ThisA allows any UNIX-style application to be easily ported to OpenVMS.   E More importantly, many government bids require an official commitmentoD from the vendor to support the platform for up to 20 years. In these? cases, Compaq has made this commitment, thus reassuring OpenVMStC customers of the integrity and long-term viability of their OpenVMSe investment.   = http://www.compaq.com/inform/issues/issue32/opnvms-114-a.html   F http://www.openvms.compaq.com/solutions/government/coe/dii_COE_Faq.htm l    Grant   ? "Lucas, Edward A (SAIC)" <Edward.Lucas@bp.com> wrote in messagew9 news:EF1DC894691AD5118AF000508BB85FDE034CC70F@AMCLVX11...e > Hello everyone,s >rC > The stupid company I work for has decided that VMS is going away.  Thet. > merger with HP signals the way for UNIX. : (= > This week I need to start a project called "VAX Elimination 	 project".p > (dingle berries) >eB > Can someone please send me the link where HP commits to OpenVMS.D > I need some fire power.  These dingle berries deciding that VMS is going C > away and the costs are too high need to find another job.  I haves beenB > working with VMS for over 16 years and I am so sick and tired of everyoneF > blaming the VAX's/Alpha's for every little problem, and each time we have aA > problem its always another platform. ( You think I would becomed numb)t >vE > Please help. We have the opening meeting Thursday, and at that timeo I wouldn+ > like to present all information possible.rB > These dingle berries feel they well be able to eliminate the VMS environmentS4 > for around 2.5 mil. (daaaaaa, maybe around 9 mil.) >l1 > To give an example of how stupid management is;fC > They feel having a DR site is not necessary.  So I have purchaseda backup? > systems.  My recommendation was to put the systems in Ohio orw anywhere on F > the east cost.  The felt it was best to put them on another floor in the3A > same fricken building.  (The Building is in Tornado alley) They:	 STATE theeB > building will holdup during a tornado. (Ok, lets see the fricken building > stand during a level 4 or 5) >N >C > Edward A. LucasI" > Sr. VAX/VMS System Administrator > SAIC > Phone:  (216) 525-7492 > Email:   Lucaea@bp.com >  >2        > -----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----A http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!t> -----==  Over 80,000 Newsgroups - 16 Different Servers! =-----   ------------------------------    Date: 15 Jul 2002 13:13:15 -0700( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski) Subject: Re: VMS commitment = Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0207151213.2130724f@posting.google.com>i  { "Lucas, Edward A (SAIC)" <Edward.Lucas@bp.com> wrote in message news:<EF1DC894691AD5118AF000508BB85FDE034CC70F@AMCLVX11>...a > Hello everyone,h > H > The stupid company I work for has decided that VMS is going away.  The. > merger with HP signals the way for UNIX. : (G > This week I need to start a project called "VAX Elimination project".t > (dingle berries) > B > Can someone please send me the link where HP commits to OpenVMS.J > I need some fire power.  These dingle berries deciding that VMS is goingH > away and the costs are too high need to find another job.  I have beenK > working with VMS for over 16 years and I am so sick and tired of everyonepM > blaming the VAX's/Alpha's for every little problem, and each time we have alG > problem its always another platform. ( You think I would become numb)e > M > Please help. We have the opening meeting Thursday, and at that time I wouldo+ > like to present all information possible.iN > These dingle berries feel they well be able to eliminate the VMS environment4 > for around 2.5 mil. (daaaaaa, maybe around 9 mil.) > 1 > To give an example of how stupid management is;eJ > They feel having a DR site is not necessary.  So I have purchased backupK > systems.  My recommendation was to put the systems in Ohio or anywhere onoJ > the east cost.  The felt it was best to put them on another floor in theK > same fricken building.  (The Building is in Tornado alley) They STATE thenK > building will holdup during a tornado. (Ok, lets see the fricken buildingn > stand during a level 4 or 5) >  >  > Edward A. Lucasv" > Sr. VAX/VMS System Administrator > SAIC > Phone:  (216) 525-7492 > Email:   Lucaea@bp.com   why not go to the top ... emailw   Richard.Marcello@hp.comr  B and let him know the situation ... I think he will call personally and tell them personally ...   ------------------------------    Date: 15 Jul 2002 14:09:04 -0700) From: kgordon@smp-corp.com (Kevin Gordon)  Subject: Re: VMS commitment = Message-ID: <274b71f0.0207151309.73f5c62a@posting.google.com>P  A HP/Compaq has an Open VMS Roadmap PowerPoint Presentation that is>+ updated every 2-3 months.  Hope this helps:a  B http://www.openvms.compaq.com/openvms/roadmap/openvms_roadmaps.htm   Regards, Kevine    { "Lucas, Edward A (SAIC)" <Edward.Lucas@bp.com> wrote in message news:<EF1DC894691AD5118AF000508BB85FDE034CC70F@AMCLVX11>...t > Hello everyone,h > H > The stupid company I work for has decided that VMS is going away.  The. > merger with HP signals the way for UNIX. : (G > This week I need to start a project called "VAX Elimination project".t > (dingle berries) > B > Can someone please send me the link where HP commits to OpenVMS.J > I need some fire power.  These dingle berries deciding that VMS is goingH > away and the costs are too high need to find another job.  I have beenK > working with VMS for over 16 years and I am so sick and tired of everyoneoM > blaming the VAX's/Alpha's for every little problem, and each time we have arG > problem its always another platform. ( You think I would become numb)e > M > Please help. We have the opening meeting Thursday, and at that time I wouldo+ > like to present all information possible.uN > These dingle berries feel they well be able to eliminate the VMS environment4 > for around 2.5 mil. (daaaaaa, maybe around 9 mil.) > 1 > To give an example of how stupid management is;sJ > They feel having a DR site is not necessary.  So I have purchased backupK > systems.  My recommendation was to put the systems in Ohio or anywhere onlJ > the east cost.  The felt it was best to put them on another floor in theK > same fricken building.  (The Building is in Tornado alley) They STATE theiK > building will holdup during a tornado. (Ok, lets see the fricken buildingF > stand during a level 4 or 5) >  >  > Edward A. Lucasn" > Sr. VAX/VMS System Administrator > SAIC > Phone:  (216) 525-7492 > Email:   Lucaea@bp.com   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 21:06:13 GMTe# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>d Subject: Re: VMS commitment H Message-ID: <9PGY8.67415$WJf1.2651@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>  * "GD" <gdixon@frognet.net> wrote in message( news:3d3328a1$1_3@corp.newsgroups.com...0 > Check out the DIICOE pages on the Compaq site. > C > http://www.openvms.compaq.com/solutions/government/coe/index.htmlo >f
 > excerpt:E > As part of the DII COE initiative, OpenVMS Engineering is enhancing B > some OpenVMS interfaces commonly available on UNIX systems. ThisC > allows any UNIX-style application to be easily ported to OpenVMS.i >yG > More importantly, many government bids require an official commitment F > from the vendor to support the platform for up to 20 years. In theseA > cases, Compaq has made this commitment, thus reassuring OpenVMStE > customers of the integrity and long-term viability of their OpenVMSc
 > investment.h >v? > http://www.compaq.com/inform/issues/issue32/opnvms-114-a.htmlt >iH > http://www.openvms.compaq.com/solutions/government/coe/dii_COE_Faq.htm > l)    J It is unclear as to whether this commitment extends to ordinary commercial+ customers in the long term (ie. past v7.3).d  7 What are the motivating factors in the switch from VMS?r a) Price/performance? $ b) Don't want to migrate to Itanium?) c) VMS programming talent pool dwindling?s& d) Key 3rd-party software unavailable?* e) Trust and long-term viability concerns? f) Strictly internal politics?  K Which unix are they thinking of switching to, or is it going to be Windows? K If it's HP-UX that they are thinking about, my guess is that you won't findeL HP very interested in keeping your business on VMS. On the other hand if youI were thinking about Solaris or AIX, and had already ruled out HP-UX, then H perhaps you might find HP more receptive to finding a way to keep you on VMS.   ------------------------------    Date: 15 Jul 2002 15:33:10 -0700( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski) Subject: Re: VMS commitmentt< Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0207151433.a2d00d2@posting.google.com>  q prune@ZAnkh-Morpork.mv.com (Paul Winalski) wrote in message news:<3d33113b.3175175821@proxy.news.easynews.com>... > > On Mon, 15 Jul 2002 07:09:12 -0500, "Lucas, Edward A (SAIC)" > <Edward.Lucas@bp.com> wrote: > I > >The stupid company I work for has decided that VMS is going away.  The / > >merger with HP signals the way for UNIX. : (vH > >This week I need to start a project called "VAX Elimination project". > >(dingle berries)s > >rC > >Can someone please send me the link where HP commits to OpenVMS.aK > >I need some fire power.  These dingle berries deciding that VMS is goingV= > >away and the costs are too high need to find another job. n > 6 > Or perhaps YOU need to find another job. [ 1/2 :-) ] > F > Seriously, I have grave doubts that HP, regardless of what they say,H > is committed to doing anything with VMS other than stringing along itsD > captive installed base and milking it for all it's worth as a cashG > cow.  I advise being very careful to look at what they do, as opposedBD > to what they say.  There are some positive signs that HP may treat? > VMS better than Compaq or the GQ Bob Palmer regime at DigitaleG > did, but IMO the jury's still out and it's too early to say just whataB > HP is going to do with/about/to VMS in the long term.  I'd guess. > that HP probably doesn't really know itself. > F > Returning to your situation, a "VAX Elimination Project" is probablyA > well overdue.  Your company might well find that the savings ingG > the electricity bill alone would more than pay for buying more moderngC > hardware than VAXes (e.g., modern Alphas).  A **VMS** elimination)C > project might or might not be the right decision.  But I woudln'te+ > automatically  assume it's the wrong one.k >   B a vms elimination project is always wrong!  There is not one otherD platform right now that can offer the security and stability of VMS!D If you believe otherwise, just name another platform and I'll hammerC you with cert advisories and email's from other posters on comp.???aD that will make you look like an idiot for even stating the above ...G and the CEO's at this place stating they don't need disaster tolerance?  they are just as stupid ...n   ------------------------------    Date: 15 Jul 2002 15:35:06 -0700( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski) Subject: Re: VMS commitment = Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0207151435.50f78ba8@posting.google.com>o  Z Don Sykes <annonymous@pacbell.net> wrote in message news:<3D331B7B.365B5E9@pacbell.net>...! > "Lucas, Edward A (SAIC)" wrote:h > >  > > Hello everyone,c > > J > > The stupid company I work for has decided that VMS is going away.  The0 > > merger with HP signals the way for UNIX. : (I > > This week I need to start a project called "VAX Elimination project".  > > (dingle berries) > > D > > Can someone please send me the link where HP commits to OpenVMS.L > > I need some fire power.  These dingle berries deciding that VMS is goingJ > > away and the costs are too high need to find another job.  I have beenM > > working with VMS for over 16 years and I am so sick and tired of everyonenO > > blaming the VAX's/Alpha's for every little problem, and each time we have alI > > problem its always another platform. ( You think I would become numb)  > > O > > Please help. We have the opening meeting Thursday, and at that time I wouldw- > > like to present all information possible.uP > > These dingle berries feel they well be able to eliminate the VMS environment6 > > for around 2.5 mil. (daaaaaa, maybe around 9 mil.) > > H > Have them do a Google search on Unix security problems. One I found atG > http://linux.oreillynet.com/pub/a/linux/2001/01/30/insecurities.html 0O > a Linux advocacy site that also includes general Unix news, the page starts :mR > 	"Welcome to the Security Alerts column, an overview of new Unix and open sourceG > security-related advisories and news. Problems this week include" ...: >  > Problems THIS WEEK ?!?!?!rJ > Challenge them to find a weekly, monthly or even yearly site on such VMS > security issues.  G you want an even better one, try comp.linux.security ... and of course,e@ if you really want some laughs, there is always comp.windoze ...   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 17:11:08 -0700h" From: GreyCloud <cumulus@mist.com> Subject: Re: VMS commitmentn' Message-ID: <3D33649C.263E0D5@mist.com>n   Bob Ceculski wrote:) > s > prune@ZAnkh-Morpork.mv.com (Paul Winalski) wrote in message news:<3d33113b.3175175821@proxy.news.easynews.com>... @ > > On Mon, 15 Jul 2002 07:09:12 -0500, "Lucas, Edward A (SAIC)"  > > <Edward.Lucas@bp.com> wrote: > >iK > > >The stupid company I work for has decided that VMS is going away.  The 1 > > >merger with HP signals the way for UNIX. : (MJ > > >This week I need to start a project called "VAX Elimination project". > > >(dingle berries)  > > >oE > > >Can someone please send me the link where HP commits to OpenVMS.nM > > >I need some fire power.  These dingle berries deciding that VMS is goingo> > > >away and the costs are too high need to find another job. > >e8 > > Or perhaps YOU need to find another job. [ 1/2 :-) ] > >rH > > Seriously, I have grave doubts that HP, regardless of what they say,J > > is committed to doing anything with VMS other than stringing along itsF > > captive installed base and milking it for all it's worth as a cashI > > cow.  I advise being very careful to look at what they do, as opposed-F > > to what they say.  There are some positive signs that HP may treatA > > VMS better than Compaq or the GQ Bob Palmer regime at DigitalsI > > did, but IMO the jury's still out and it's too early to say just what D > > HP is going to do with/about/to VMS in the long term.  I'd guess0 > > that HP probably doesn't really know itself. > >sH > > Returning to your situation, a "VAX Elimination Project" is probablyC > > well overdue.  Your company might well find that the savings insI > > the electricity bill alone would more than pay for buying more moderneE > > hardware than VAXes (e.g., modern Alphas).  A **VMS** eliminationtE > > project might or might not be the right decision.  But I woudln'to- > > automatically  assume it's the wrong one.y > >  > D > a vms elimination project is always wrong!  There is not one otherF > platform right now that can offer the security and stability of VMS!F > If you believe otherwise, just name another platform and I'll hammerE > you with cert advisories and email's from other posters on comp.???sF > that will make you look like an idiot for even stating the above ...I > and the CEO's at this place stating they don't need disaster tolerance?G > they are just as stupid ...r  9 For my interest, what about Honeywell systems for federalu	 payroll??0 You got my curiosity up.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 17:21:05 -0700 " From: GreyCloud <cumulus@mist.com> Subject: Re: VMS commitmenta( Message-ID: <3D3366F1.72A8EDAA@mist.com>   Bob Ceculski wrote:i > \ > Don Sykes <annonymous@pacbell.net> wrote in message news:<3D331B7B.365B5E9@pacbell.net>...# > > "Lucas, Edward A (SAIC)" wrote:i > > >  > > > Hello everyone,i > > >eL > > > The stupid company I work for has decided that VMS is going away.  The2 > > > merger with HP signals the way for UNIX. : (K > > > This week I need to start a project called "VAX Elimination project".2 > > > (dingle berries) > > > F > > > Can someone please send me the link where HP commits to OpenVMS.N > > > I need some fire power.  These dingle berries deciding that VMS is goingL > > > away and the costs are too high need to find another job.  I have beenO > > > working with VMS for over 16 years and I am so sick and tired of everyoneyQ > > > blaming the VAX's/Alpha's for every little problem, and each time we have acK > > > problem its always another platform. ( You think I would become numb)e > > >eQ > > > Please help. We have the opening meeting Thursday, and at that time I wouldg/ > > > like to present all information possible.nR > > > These dingle berries feel they well be able to eliminate the VMS environment8 > > > for around 2.5 mil. (daaaaaa, maybe around 9 mil.) > > >mJ > > Have them do a Google search on Unix security problems. One I found atH > > http://linux.oreillynet.com/pub/a/linux/2001/01/30/insecurities.htmlQ > > a Linux advocacy site that also includes general Unix news, the page starts :yY > >       "Welcome to the Security Alerts column, an overview of new Unix and open sourcejI > > security-related advisories and news. Problems this week include" ...e > >l > > Problems THIS WEEK ?!?!?!cL > > Challenge them to find a weekly, monthly or even yearly site on such VMS > > security issues. > I > you want an even better one, try comp.linux.security ... and of course,kB > if you really want some laughs, there is always comp.windoze ...  9 All of the windows newsgroups are good for entertainment.    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2002 00:46:38 GMTI! From: rob.buxton@wcc.spam.govt.nze Subject: Re: VMS commitmente% Message-ID: <3d336b5f.524074008@news>l  F Interesting that it's a VAX elimination project - sounds like you just. need to convert the remaining VAXes to Alphas!  A I'd say your first quest is to identify what the perceived issues C actually are. Document all of these and if they're relevent to VMS.a  E Another issue is cost, you've already paid for your investment, watchrD out for consultants chanting the mantra - off the shelf packages are	 cheaper.  , Get any assertions etc. backed up with fact.  A e.g. get them to look at recent non-VMS product upgrades. Here welD needed to update or replace masses of hardware to update to W2000.    F Review alternative strategies, web-enabling existing applications etc.   Good luck. I  < On Mon, 15 Jul 2002 07:09:12 -0500, "Lucas, Edward A (SAIC)" <Edward.Lucas@bp.com> wrote:   >Hello everyone, >-G >The stupid company I work for has decided that VMS is going away.  Thew- >merger with HP signals the way for UNIX. : (rF >This week I need to start a project called "VAX Elimination project". >(dingle berries)- >-A >Can someone please send me the link where HP commits to OpenVMS.oI >I need some fire power.  These dingle berries deciding that VMS is going5G >away and the costs are too high need to find another job.  I have beencJ >working with VMS for over 16 years and I am so sick and tired of everyoneL >blaming the VAX's/Alpha's for every little problem, and each time we have aF >problem its always another platform. ( You think I would become numb) >.L >Please help. We have the opening meeting Thursday, and at that time I would* >like to present all information possible.M >These dingle berries feel they well be able to eliminate the VMS environmente3 >for around 2.5 mil. (daaaaaa, maybe around 9 mil.)a >t0 >To give an example of how stupid management is;I >They feel having a DR site is not necessary.  So I have purchased backup J >systems.  My recommendation was to put the systems in Ohio or anywhere onI >the east cost.  The felt it was best to put them on another floor in thedJ >same fricken building.  (The Building is in Tornado alley) They STATE theJ >building will holdup during a tornado. (Ok, lets see the fricken building >stand during a level 4 or 5)  >a >  >Edward A. Lucas! >Sr. VAX/VMS System Administratorl >SAICa >Phone:  (216) 525-7492  >Email:   Lucaea@bp.como >o >t   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 22:38:55 -0400h( From: David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> Subject: Re: VMS commitmente, Message-ID: <3D33873F.9010206@tsoft-inc.com>  ! > "Lucas, Edward A (SAIC)" wrote:n >  >>Hello everyone,a >>H >>The stupid company I work for has decided that VMS is going away.  The. >>merger with HP signals the way for UNIX. : (G >>This week I need to start a project called "VAX Elimination project".d >>(dingle berries) >>B >>Can someone please send me the link where HP commits to OpenVMS.J >>I need some fire power.  These dingle berries deciding that VMS is goingH >>away and the costs are too high need to find another job.  I have beenK >>working with VMS for over 16 years and I am so sick and tired of everyonelM >>blaming the VAX's/Alpha's for every little problem, and each time we have aVG >>problem its always another platform. ( You think I would become numb)c >>M >>Please help. We have the opening meeting Thursday, and at that time I would + >>like to present all information possible./N >>These dingle berries feel they well be able to eliminate the VMS environment4 >>for around 2.5 mil. (daaaaaa, maybe around 9 mil.)    N Several things come to mind, and you've had some good suggestions from others.  N #1, take the advice to solicit help from the VMS people.  Contact Mark Gorham K and tell him what you need.  It's in his interest to keep customers on VMS.t  K #2, definitely get the data to show the true cost to switch platforms.  If  N you've a problem with windoz advocates, there is plenty of data to show total Q cost of ownership.  Ask about the recuring cost of additional people required to a5 run any other platform, not just the conversion cost.o  P #3, point out that even if they can do a conversion with the 2.5M, if VMS isn't M going away, then they have just dropped 2.5M for no good reason, and ask who  N will answer for such a debacle.  Point out that if VMS truly does start to go P away, there will still be time to convert, and to newer technology than if it's O done today.  Basically, why is something that isn't broke being fixed?  Why is eO money being spent on speculation.  Suggest that if betting is what the company )  wants to do, then try the track.  L #4, be prepared to lose.  If there is a windoz advocate placed high enough, K he/she will make the decision he/she wants to make, and who needs rational h justification.  N #5, if you don't want to hang around if VMS goes away, then be prepared to go O over the head of the idiot that disregards any good arguments.  Surely someone lP will be happy to not shell out 2.5M when there is not a valid compelling reason O to do so.  You'll need a good rational argument.  It seems that the doomsayers t? don't need such.  Many are ready to believe the sky is falling.    Dave   ------------------------------    Date: 15 Jul 2002 21:19:05 -0700, From: michaelpettengill@earthlink.net (MULP) Subject: Re: VMS commitment9= Message-ID: <61c1c25a.0207152019.7f617230@posting.google.com>G  F Having been a long time DEC supporter, VMS supporter, Alpha supporter,D I have to say that the prospects for pretty much everything that DEC produced is oblivion.o  F Alpha and VMS will be discussed for ages as "shoulda, coulda", but theB fact remains that there is no future.  Alpha is already marked forE delete.  Tru64 is already marked for delete.  Truclusters is, for all- intents, marked for delete.y  C Its only a matter of time before VMS is formally marked for delete.i  ? But the important thing to recognize is that VMS as a system isr: contracting and with it, its market will have to contract.  E Look at the VAX/VMS products that didn't make the transition from VAXl	 to Alpha.a  ; Look at the VMS related products that have been sold, spun,a decommited, etc since 1995.p  D Look at the products that have already been identified as not making the transition to IA64.   E Here's the way that the economics have been measured for the past 6-8oE years and until you hear someone at HPQ explicitly say otherwise, I'mm, sure that it will be the same going forward.  C Take a given layered product:  Measure its sales vs its engineeringrE costs [do not measure support revenue] - if its break even, then ship ; it off to a 3rd party like EDS to have them maintain it andnD re-evaluate it.  If its operating at a loss, announce that its being< retired.  Repeat as needed until there are no products left.  B Services gets the software support revenue and this is critical to making them profitable.t  F Engineering is pure cost, overhead, not profit, unnecessary, and to be eliminated as much as possible.o  C In no way can a product be considered critical to current or future = VMS sales - only if the product offers the promise of ongoing7. increasing profits is it a worthwhile product.  D But, you say, with my one license for, let's say, SCAN, I can create< software which I will run on 100 VMS systems that we installD throughout my company or industry.  Sorry, unless you are willing toD pay $100K per license, its is too expensive to dedicate one engineerB for 3 months per year to port and support it - you should be using9 unix or windows because there is more software available.    Let's consider printer support.T  F DEC sold off its printer business and along with it the VMS postscriptF printer support and agreed to resell this companies products.  ShortlyE afterward, Compaq takes over and cancels the deal.  This company goesdF bankrupt and sues Compaq.  VMS product management does manage to reachB an agreement to retrieve the DEC employee to went with the printer> software and bring him back to do new support.  But one of theE interesting things was that HP was very uncooperative in supplying HP C printers to be supported by VMS.  (Lexmark was happy to ship one of @ everything which is why there is better Lexmark printer support;C besides the Lexmark firmware works, while the HP firmware doesn't.)   D One has to ask how any company could not see that postscript printerB support is critical to an operating system platforms existance andD would take special steps to ensure that it is always well supported.  > But the old DEC "system" view is long gone.  Its all commodityB components and any issues about ensuring that a complete system is6 available to customers is left to Microsoft and Intel.  F Why would a company willingly yields its unique value to a competitor?C  Compaq and HP both decided that it was beneficial to give away its D unique processor advantage so that Dell could sell it cheaper, while Intel makes any and all profit.   C If HP really makes VMS run on any IA64 platform, then you should ber@ able to buy just VMS from HP and buy your hardware from Dell, orA better yet, build it yourself for even less money.  Do you see HPoE taking any steps to be a software company that will be selling VMS iniD high volume?  If not, then the price for VMS is going to be huge, orB it will be limited to high priced HP platforms, or its going to be< supported with a barebones engineering and marketing budget.  D I'm taking welding classes - there are far more jobs for entry levelF welders than for all VMS jobs combined and that's the situation today;F it can only get worse.  Better find a new line of work while you still can.   ------------------------------   Date: 15 Jul 2002 19:35:38 GMT4 From: "Jim Strehlow" <JimStrehlowNoSpam@data911.com>' Subject: Re: Wanted: NFS experiences...e0 Message-ID: <agv86a$99c@dispatch.concentric.net>  ? We use Compaq TCP/IP Services with NFS pointing to Windows 2000w or other non-OpenVMS hosts.e   $tcpip show versionj= Compaq TCP/IP Services for OpenVMS Alpha Version V5.1 - ECO 4 ) on a AlphaServer ... running OpenVMS V7.3   ? We intentionally have produced specs for developers to use onlyn9 all lowercase or all uppercase with paths and file names;sC else you will see extra '$' characters within the file name or pathi  where the change of case exists.  + Our application usage is mostly for Oracle.   = One developer preferred the old Tcpware syntax but is able to < accomplish what he needs to do using Compaq TCP/IP Services.  + Jim Strehlow, Data911.com, Alameda, CA, USAe    6 "Mike Scott" <mscott_NOSPAM@axys.com> wrote in message news:3d330720$1@nubby2....F > I need a file server for all my Alpha VMS workstations (mixed v7.1 - v7.3).K > I'm considering using the biggest station as an NFS server.  What are the D > experiences out there?  Compaq TCP-IP vs. TCPware?  NFS v2 vs. v3?K > In general, is NFS on VMS considered solid enough (and fast enough) for a  > production environment?tA > Note: Looked at clustering... not a good fit for other reasons.o > -with thanks >s >l   ------------------------------    Date: 15 Jul 2002 16:03:25 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen):' Subject: Re: Wanted: NFS experiences...l3 Message-ID: <99ii+a5Qm1EW@eisner.encompasserve.org>i  g In article <agv86a$99c@dispatch.concentric.net>, "Jim Strehlow" <JimStrehlowNoSpam@data911.com> writes:eA > We use Compaq TCP/IP Services with NFS pointing to Windows 2000. > or other non-OpenVMS hosts.- >  > $tcpip show version2? > Compaq TCP/IP Services for OpenVMS Alpha Version V5.1 - ECO 4:+ > on a AlphaServer ... running OpenVMS V7.3D > A > We intentionally have produced specs for developers to use only(; > all lowercase or all uppercase with paths and file names;xE > else you will see extra '$' characters within the file name or paths" > where the change of case exists.  ? As pointed out here when I asked the question a few months ago,d? TCP/IP Services V5.3 on Alpha allows one to mount an NFS device < as if it were an ODS-5 disk, providing mixed case filenames.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 15:00:38 -0500s* From: "Dave Gudewicz" <dgudewicz@core.com>1 Subject: Re: Who said Carly doesn't like OpenVMS?s8 Message-ID: <3d3329e3$0$3577$1dc6e903@news.corecomm.net>  I Good one.  You forgot body coordinates.  These days its the Britney look.n" Right above navel is where its at! -- Dave...e  G It is noble to teach oneself, but still nobler to teach others-and lessc trouble. -----Mark Twainw  7 "WILLIAM WEBB" <WWEBB1@email.usps.gov> wrote in messagee' news:0033000072550252000002L022*@MHS...a  2      Any bets on how long it'll take before we see3      posts from the usual suspects complaining that *      she didn't display an OpenVMS tattoo?        :^)        WWWebbo   -----Original Message-----/ From: Info-VAX-Request@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNET $ Sent: Monday, July 15, 2002 12:48 PMB To: Webb, William W Raleigh, NC; Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNET1 Subject: RE: Who said Carly doesn't like OpenVMS?l    ; "warren sander" <warren.sander@compaq.com> wrote in messagej, news:RnCY8.20$LV1.625755@news.cpqcorp.net... > K > Look closely and you will see she is wearing an OpenVMS Ambassadors Shirtr    I It's called a 'photo-op'.  I'd be more impressed if I knew she wore it ats head office 3 days per week.=    ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 21:15:14 GMTu# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>e1 Subject: Re: Who said Carly doesn't like OpenVMS? I Message-ID: <CXGY8.67427$WJf1.46007@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>u  7 "WILLIAM WEBB" <WWEBB1@email.usps.gov> wrote in messaget' news:0033000072550252000002L022*@MHS...   2      Any bets on how long it'll take before we see3      posts from the usual suspects complaining thato*      she didn't display an OpenVMS tattoo?  K Just pulling your chain a bit.....if she had one, it would probably be dones/ with henna - washes out in a couple weeks.  :-)o  K And as far as 'suspects' go, my copy of the Oxford dictionary serves up two- interesting definitions:  E "suspe-ct - v.t. - 1. Have an impression of the existence or presence  of...danger....."mC "su-spect - a. - 1. Of suspected character, subject to suspicion oro	 distrust"    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 17:37:57 -0400p* From: WILLIAM WEBB <WWEBB1@email.usps.gov>1 Subject: RE: Who said Carly doesn't like OpenVMS? - Message-ID: <0033000072593824000002L042*@MHS>h  : =0AI quoted Casablanca (Louis' quip about gambling) in the7 VMS Marketing Volunteers thread, and it appears that myc1 brain dredged up the phrase "usual suspects" as a 
 follow-up.  > "I'm shocked - shocked to find marketing is going on in here!" :^)n   WWWebb  7 "WILLIAM WEBB" <WWEBB1@email.usps.gov> wrote in messagea' news:0033000072550252000002L022*@MHS...a  2      Any bets on how long it'll take before we see3      posts from the usual suspects complaining thatc*      she didn't display an OpenVMS tattoo?  H Just pulling your chain a bit.....if she had one, it would probably be = done/ with henna - washes out in a couple weeks.  :-)c  H And as far as 'suspects' go, my copy of the Oxford dictionary serves up=  two interesting definitions:  E "suspe-ct - v.t. - 1. Have an impression of the existence or presencef of...danger....."lC "su-spect - a. - 1. Of suspected character, subject to suspicion ora
 distrust"=   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 23:36:11 GMTb( From: "Jay E. Morris" <jem@epsilon3.com>1 Subject: Re: Who said Carly doesn't like OpenVMS?l8 Message-ID: <L%IY8.4964$88.324308@twister.austin.rr.com>  4 On 15-Jul-2002, "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> wrote:  = > "warren sander" <warren.sander@compaq.com> wrote in message . > news:RnCY8.20$LV1.625755@news.cpqcorp.net... > > G > > Look closely and you will see she is wearing an OpenVMS Ambassadorsh	 > > Shirta >e >,K > It's called a 'photo-op'.  I'd be more impressed if I knew she wore it att > head office 3 days per week.  8 Of course not!  Sue hasn't approved her application yet.  
 Jay E. MorrisaG Houston - Aug 15 - Anyone got a VAX distribution they want to trade forr Alpha?   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 19:51:17 -0400I) From: "Neil Rieck" <n.rieck@sympatico.ca>c1 Subject: Re: Who said Carly doesn't like OpenVMS?48 Message-ID: <_dJY8.1650$o7.554541@news20.bellglobal.com>  ! I've posted Carly's picture here:o8 http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/links/cool_vax_vms.htmlA Notice that she is wearing an "OpenVMS Ambassador" sweat shirt...u  
 Neil Rieck Kitchener/Waterloo/Cambridge,V Ontario, Canada.! http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/r  6 "Paul Sture" <p_sture@elias.decus.ch> wrote in message# news:AEWOP7lFjg1N@elias.decus.ch... H > In article <zj6Y8.13824$Sb3.536969@twister.southeast.rr.com>, "Kenneth% Farmer" <kfarmer@openvms.org> writes:d+ > > Who said Carly doesn't like OpenVMS? :)s > > = > > http://www.openvms.org/stories.php?story=02/07/13/7134900, > >e/ > Sorry, but that's giving me "Story not found"I > __ > Paul Sture
 > Switzerland5   ------------------------------    Date: 15 Jul 2002 21:43:05 -0700, From: michaelpettengill@earthlink.net (MULP)1 Subject: Re: Who said Carly doesn't like OpenVMS?i= Message-ID: <61c1c25a.0207152043.55a19cf7@posting.google.com>t  q "Kenneth Farmer" <kfarmer@openvms.org> wrote in message news:<zj6Y8.13824$Sb3.536969@twister.southeast.rr.com>...o) > Who said Carly doesn't like OpenVMS? :). >   D Hey, if you were faced with vocal, cynical, skeptical, employees whoC figure they have nothing to lose, wouldn't you put on a T-shirt andoD hold a couple of pieces of tin to ensure your safe exit to your limo or chopper?f  E Capellas isn't anywhere near as photogenic and I'm sure that he knowstC it, but I remember a couple years ago when he was gushing about VMSh@ and Galaxy to the assembled masses in ZKO.  Within months he wasD making plans to kill Alpha, if he hadn't already decided to defer to1 someone with an axe to grind with the DEC legacy.r  E I'll believe that Carly supports VMS when she signs a statement filed > with the SEC saying that she fully supports VMS.  With the SECA requiring that such false statements would be criminal which theniF allows false statements to be bootstrapped to civil penalties, I wouldD at least find comfort in Carly's fortunes being tied to the fortunes of those involved in VMS.n   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2002 01:25:52 +0800,+ From: "Kenneth" <yeung_kenneth@hotmail.com> ( Subject: write insert in sequential file* Message-ID: <agv0hr$3r11@rain.i-cable.com>  L I have two sequential files (A,B) contains the usernames and I want to checkK if the user in B is also exist in A, if not I will insert it to the file A.<I However I cannot do it with WRITE /UPDATE  as it will replace the current0E open record. How can I do the insert? Do I need a temp file to do it?    ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 23:34:08 GMTo3 From: Art McClinton <AMcClinton@cox.RoadRunner.com>U, Subject: Re: write insert in sequential file2 Message-ID: <3D335BE0.1F655D88@cox.RoadRunner.com>   Temporary file   Kenneth wrote:  N > I have two sequential files (A,B) contains the usernames and I want to checkM > if the user in B is also exist in A, if not I will insert it to the file A.iK > However I cannot do it with WRITE /UPDATE  as it will replace the currentoG > open record. How can I do the insert? Do I need a temp file to do it?e   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2002 00:17:12 GMT. From: sasadmin <jec@nospam.net>c, Subject: Re: write insert in sequential file2 Message-ID: <87it3gcxie.fsf@Alethion.systasis.net>  - "Kenneth" <yeung_kenneth@hotmail.com> writes:b  N > I have two sequential files (A,B) contains the usernames and I want to checkM > if the user in B is also exist in A, if not I will insert it to the file A. K > However I cannot do it with WRITE /UPDATE  as it will replace the current G > open record. How can I do the insert? Do I need a temp file to do it?I >  >    If the situation is:         A       B2         ------  ------         FRED    FRED         FUBAR   GRELBERf  B a temporary file is needed. However, I'm not sure you must write a program:   try _$ sort/nodup/stat A,B C_    This should yield:	         Ce         ------         FRED
         FUBARo         GRELBERs  - Where C could be the next higher version of A    -- n Microsoft Free By 2003   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2002.388 ************************