1 INFO-VAX	Wed, 17 Jul 2002	Volume 2002 : Issue 391       Contents:- Re: "Clean" CISC (was Re: McKinley Cometh...) - Re: "Clean" CISC (was Re: McKinley Cometh...)  Re: ACMS tuning - advice needed  Re: AN easier UNZIP - RE: Another C and PL/I question - Descriptors  Re: BEA Weblogic Server (WLS)  Re: BEA Weblogic Server (WLS) 8 Booting from  VMSsystem on every real Alpha is possible./ Re: comp.os.vms "whiners" make news on Inquirer / Re: comp.os.vms "whiners" make news on Inquirer $ Re: Creating a "UNIX disk" under VMS Re: CXX questions  Re: CXX questions  Re: CXX questions  Re: CXX questions  Re: CXX questions  Re: CXX questions  Re: Delete of .bck file  Re: ES40, DE600, clustering  Re: ES40, DE600, clustering  Re: ES40, DE600, clustering  Re: ftp W2K->VMS Re: ftp W2K->VMS RE: ftp W2K->VMS Re: ftp W2K->VMS Re: How to kill users  Re: How to kill users  Re: How to kill users  Re: How to kill users  Re: How to kill users  Re: How to kill users  Re: How to kill users  RE: How to kill users  Re: How to kill users  Re: How to kill users $ Re: HP Lan Console x Itanium servers Re: Java 1.4 soon? Re: Java 1.4 soon?. Re: Looking for 2nd power-supply for an AS2100. RE: Looking for 2nd power-supply for an AS2100 Re: McKinley Cometh... Re: McKinley Cometh... RE: McKinley Cometh..., RE: My conversation with Linus about VMS ...3 Re: need help: ODBC driver for rdb on OpenVMS Alpha 3 Re: need help: ODBC driver for rdb on OpenVMS Alpha 3 Re: need help: ODBC driver for rdb on OpenVMS Alpha 
 Re: Nostalgia 
 Re: Nostalgia . Re: OpenSSL and certificates concept questions OpenVMS + OpenView, OpenVMS mentioned by HP in Itanium 2 article- Re: Problems to load OpenVMS V7.3 on DEC 4610 
 SMTP question  Re: SOAP and XML On OpenVMS P Re: StorageWorks HSG controllers, do you use STEAM agents or the Management ApplP Re: StorageWorks HSG controllers, do you use STEAM agents or the Management Appl3 Re: TCPIP Services anti-spam feature for SMTP relay 3 Re: TCPIP Services anti-spam feature for SMTP relay 8 Re: Terminal Emu to MicroVaxII - typed characters effect Re: Terminal input from DCL H Re: Tops-10/Tops-20 features not in VMS ?, was: Re: Looking for terminal VAX to Alpha migration tools  Re: VAX to Alpha migration tools  RE: VAX to Alpha migration tools  RE: VAX to Alpha migration tools  Re: VAX to Alpha migration tools  Re: VAX to Alpha migration tools  RE: VAX to Alpha migration tools  Re: VAX to Alpha migration tools  Re: VAX to Alpha migration tools Re: VMS commitment RE: VMS commitment RE: VMS commitment Re: VMS commitment# Re: VS4000VLC hardware information.  What are we migrating... RE: What are we migrating...! Re: [Hobbyist] User account setup ! Re: [Hobbyist] User account setup ! Re: [Hobbyist] User account setup ! Re: [Hobbyist] User account setup ! Re: [Hobbyist] User account setup   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 15:10:19 GMT 0 From: prune@ZAnkh-Morpork.mv.com (Paul Winalski)6 Subject: Re: "Clean" CISC (was Re: McKinley Cometh...)9 Message-ID: <3d358724.3336432886@proxy.news.easynews.com>   F On 11 Jul 2002 16:27:22 GMT, nmm1@cus.cam.ac.uk (Nick Maclaren) wrote:  F >Well, I regard things like the ICL 1900 and even the basic System/360C >instruction set as fairly clean - excluding the (optional) decimal : >arithmetic feature and a fair number of pustules like EX.  > Regarding S/360, if you remove the decimal instructions (which= were an optional part of the architecture--remember the S/360 A model 44?), you're left with a load/store architecture that isn't = all that much different from modern RISC architecures such as < Alpha.  The three instruction lengths are the main remaining	 CISC-ism.   B >If I were designing a clean CISC ISA, it would be very like RISC,B >but with some of the heretical features added consistently.  SuchB >as, say, variable length instructions where a few bits in a fixedA >location in the first byte determined the instruction format and * >number and format of operands, PRECISELY.  F I'd say MicroVAX (sans decimal instructions, CRC, etc.) qualifies as aD "good, clean CISC" architecture.  Certainly CISC, and 'clean' in the- sense of being highly orthogonal and regular.   @ Intel has shown that one can achieve excellent speed with a CISCA architecture by essentially moving what used to be microcode into D the first stage of silicon.  It would be interesting to see what oneD could achieve by applying the same techniques to the VAX instructionC set.  In retrospect, DEC's biggest mistake may have been abandoning B VAX in the mid 1980s.  The VAX ISA was leaving it behind the early@ RISCs on the performance curve, but had DEC stayed the course itD might well be that the technology that has prolonged the life of the2 x86 architecture could have done the same for VAX.  
 ---------- Remove 'Z' to reply by email.    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 17:34:38 +0200 E From: Jan C. =?iso-8859-1?Q?Vorbr=FCggen?= <jvorbrueggen@mediasec.de> 6 Subject: Re: "Clean" CISC (was Re: McKinley Cometh...)+ Message-ID: <3D358E8E.B32E159A@mediasec.de>   ? > In retrospect, DEC's biggest mistake may have been abandoning D > VAX in the mid 1980s.  The VAX ISA was leaving it behind the earlyB > RISCs on the performance curve, but had DEC stayed the course itF > might well be that the technology that has prolonged the life of the4 > x86 architecture could have done the same for VAX.  H It's exactly the orthogonal nature of the intruction encoding that makesG life so difficult for implementation. Also, there are quite a number of H well-used instructions with very problematic semantics - take MOVC5, for	 instance.   H As noted previously, there is a direct comparison available: The NVAX(+)N and the 21064 were implemented contemporaneously and in the same semiconductorL process. They have a performance difference of about 2, at least as measured
 by SPEC95.   	Jan   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 08:36:15 GMT - From: "labadie" <labadie_g.tocardsa@decus.fr> ( Subject: Re: ACMS tuning - advice needed1 Message-ID: <30aZ8.3$bJ2.100451@news.cpqcorp.net>   A "Ewa Skotnicka" <ewa.skotnicka@polkomtel.com.pl> wrote in message * news:3D33F7CE.2120A94F@polkomtel.com.pl... > 9 > I have ACMS V4.2-2 application running OpenVMS 7.2-1H1.  > . > I need some advice regarding tuning of ACMS. >  > 1.I > I'm wondering if there is any way to increase MSS_PROCESS_POOL only for J > EXC process (ACMS01EXC001000), because usage of it is far different from > all other server processes ? 1) I do not think # You will have to waste some memory.    > 2.H > can we measure an usage of ACMS resources, indirectly ACMS parameters,  > like: MSS_MAXBUF, MSS_MAXOBJ ? >  >    Check L http://www.compaq.com/support/asktima/appl_tools/0092CAFB-F31CAAA0-1C01E7.ht ml  A http://www.openvms.compaq.com:8000/721final/6608/6608pro_048.html   A http://www.openvms.compaq.com:8000/721final/6608/6608pro_017.html     
 and generally " http://askq.compaq.com/askopenvms/  " gives you interesting information.   Regards    Grard     > Thank you in advance.  >  > Ewa Skotnicka * >  e-mail:  ewa.skotnicka@polkomtel.com.pl >  >  >    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 16:21:52 +0200 2 From: "Frits A.M. Storms" <frits@storms.tmfweb.nl> Subject: Re: AN easier UNZIP? Message-ID: <3d357db6$0$31211$e4fe514c@dreader1.news.xs4all.nl>   E Assuming you have UNZIP542.ZIP in your login directory and a previous 1 version of UNZIP there are a few steps to get the & UNZIP-with-qualifiers-version working: $    set default sys$loginB $    set default [.temp] ! makes it easier to clear up the garbageF $    unzip    [-]unzip542.zip ! which also creates the above mentioned	 directory ) $    set default [.unzip542.vms-binaries]  $    create/directory [.vms] $    copy/log unzip*.opt [.vms] ! $    @[-.vms]link_unz DECC,VMSCLI J This leaves you with UNZIP_CLI.AXP_EXE as a replacement of your old UNZIP.< The unix-way still works but now UNZIP also has the familiar qualifier-interface. regards, Frits Storms  B "Tadimeti Keshav" <keshav_tadimeti@yahoo.co.uk> schreef in bericht: news:20020715063536.11321.qmail@web21003.mail.yahoo.com...	 > Hi all, / > I found the UNZIP program & directions at the 7 > following link to be very simple and helpful compared , > to the ones at OpenVMS's Freeware site and > PROCESS.COM. > " > http://www.djesys.com/unzip.html >  > Thanks & regards > Keshav > 4 > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!?- > Everything you'll ever need on one web page / > from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts  > http://uk.my.yahoo.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2002 16:35:40 -0700 # From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> 6 Subject: RE: Another C and PL/I question - Descriptors9 Message-ID: <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJICEEDFDAA.tom@kednos.com>   C Unaligned bit strings are passed as descriptors.  See section 7.8.3 @ in the reference manual, which if you don't have, you may freely? download from freja.kednos.com.  Sounds like you need a support - agreement.  Mail me offline if you need help.    >-----Original Message----- 4 >From: Jeffrey Cameron [mailto:bubbapig@hotmail.com]$ >Sent: Monday, June 17, 2002 4:01 PM >To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com3 >Subject: Another C and PL/I question - Descriptors  >  > J >OK ... yet ANOTHER question about mixing these two in the Common Language0 >Environment, a couple of questions actually ... > L >Please bear in mind I have NO CHOICE but to mix these two languages, its myL >project but not my idea ... I would much prefer to do it in one language or
 >the other ;)  > L >1. My C++ modules must interact with certain PL/I code and quite often thseG >PL/I modules either return or take as a parameter a bit (usually as an ' >unaligned bit string), for example ...  > 3 >/***************** PL/I CODE ********************/ 8 >get_filename: proc (indx, in_temparg) returns (bit(1)); >  >dcl in_temparg bit(1);  >dcl indx fixed bin(15); >  >/* ... snip ... */  >  >end get_filename; >  > ? >But how do I declare this in C so that it knows to pass in and  >return a bit,? >there are obviously no atomic data types for this operation in  >C/C++. I haveK >found a lot of litaerature on passing by descriptor and have tried passing L >in the address of an unaligned bit string descriptor to the PL/I program to >no avail. e.g.: > 3 >/***************** C CODE ***********************/ > >extern "C" short get_filename(short *, dsc$descriptor_ubs *); > 2 >/* I have also tried without descriptors by using1 >extern "C" short get_filename(short *, short *);  >to no avail*/ >  >short shortval = 1; >short indxval = 2;  >   >struct dsc$descriptor_ubs desc; > 6 >desc.dsc$a_base = reinterpret_cast<char*>(&shortval);I >desc.dsc$l_pos = 0L;                             /* not sure about this, H >cant remember if its little or big endian, someone help me out please*/ > B >/* Yes there are three other fields in the struct but I dont have >the fields / >handy but I fill them correctly trust me ;) */  > + >short res = get_filename(&indxval, &desc);  > ? >NOTE: This is just a basic skeleto of larger code of coruse */  > C >This code produces an error in the PL/I code when trying to access 
 >the valueH >of in_temparg. an access violation, when I check the symbol it says the6 >address is complex and is an incredibly large number. > @ >ANY suggestions as to how to pass or recognize these arguments? > E >2. I thought that the calling standard had a standard way of passing K >arguments. Going from left to right the arguments were passed in R16 - R22 J >respectively. However in the code I detailed above the PL/I seems to have! >the reverse of the C convention:  > L >The first parameter gets passed into R16 and the second into R17 as normal,K >but the first argument (indx) actually has the value of R17 and the second L >(in_temparg) has the value in R16 (well actually  a very bizarre value, butH >the right address does get passed in). Is there a particular reason forK >this? It would be nice to know if I am going to encounter this any more :)  > % >Thanks in advance for any answers :)  >  >  >  >  >  >---' >Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. ; >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). @ >Version: 6.0.370 / Virus Database: 205 - Release Date: 6/5/2002 >  --- & Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.: Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).? Version: 6.0.370 / Virus Database: 205 - Release Date: 6/5/2002    ------------------------------    Date: 17 Jul 2002 04:27:24 -0700( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)& Subject: Re: BEA Weblogic Server (WLS)= Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0207170327.21e118d7@posting.google.com>   ^ "Jakob Erber" <erberj@yahoo.de_nospam> wrote in message news:<3d347005@news.swissonline.ch>... > Hello, > M > is there somebody using this product on VMS? Again, I would be glad to here  > about experiences, made. > 	 > regards  >  > Jakob   A sorry, but I believe you have to actually "pay" for that product, : and most here on this board have "linux freebie" fever ...@ Alan left out both the BEA webserver and purveyor, I wonder why?% Would have made his book complete ...    ------------------------------  + Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 04:58:10 -0700 (PDT) . From: Fabio Cardoso <fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br>& Subject: Re: BEA Weblogic Server (WLS)@ Message-ID: <20020717115810.44986.qmail@web20210.mail.yahoo.com>  ( I think it is time to have a great event/ of Compaq (HP) Alliance members (like DECUS or  ' anything HP gives a name) to demontrate $ the new / refurbished products !!!!    Regards    FC        / --- Jakob Erber <erberj@yahoo.de_nospam> wrote:  > Hello, > 5 > is there somebody using this product on VMS? Again,  > I would be glad to here  > about experiences, made. > 	 > regards  >  > Jakob  >  >      =====  ========================== Fbio dos Santos Cardoso OpenVMS System Manager Rio de Janeiro - Brazil  fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br ==========================  2 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!?, Yahoo! Autos - Get free new car price quotes http://autos.yahoo.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 10:08:19 +0200 7 From: "Dijk, Jeroen van" <Jeroen.vanDijk@Getronics.com> A Subject: Booting from  VMSsystem on every real Alpha is possible. O Message-ID: <2795B75EF003D311801A00A0C906B511011C7044@cucexec.gbc.getronics.nl>   U If you come to us with your VMS system disk  can boot from it from every Alpha host.  H Or just any alpha host we have in house. As long you can run VMS on it.   ; The scsi difference is no problem for us or any DR center.  P Firmware problems or VMS level problems only to make the live of a DR specialist( interessing, but is not a real problem.      > -----Original Message-----B > From: david20@alpha1.mdx.ac.uk [mailto:david20@alpha1.mdx.ac.uk]$ > Sent: donderdag 27 juni 2002 15:24 > To: 7 > Subject: Re: My conversation with Linus about VMS ...  >  > @ > In article <3D1B01D2.CA9BA4AE@mindspring.com>, Atlant Schmidt ' > <atlantnospam@mindspring.com> writes:  > >Lyndon Bartels wrote: > > > > >> I said that no matter what, as long as it's alpha, I can  > take my system? > >> disk and move it from one box to another, and it'll work.   > I may have to @ > >> retune, but I can get a basic OS running with no changes... > >>< > >> The person's response.... "Wow,  that's *REALLY* nice." > > ) > >It'd be even better if it were *TRUE*.  > >'Shame it's not, ehh? > > 	 > >Atlant  > >  > @ > Well it is TRUE for VMS subject to just four qualifications :- > = > 1) The disk is supported on the system you are moving to eg @ >    If your system disk is a wide scsi disk and you are moving  > it to a system< >    with only narrow scsi shelves you might have a problem. > ? > 2) VMS is actually supported on the destination Alpha box ie   > it wasn't one > >    of the infamous "whitebox" systems. (Though for a number  > of systems this % >    limitation can now be overcome).  > ? > 3) The destination system supports that version of VMS which   > is being moved= >    across ie moving an old version of VMS say VMS 6.2 to a   > much newer box? >    which is only qualified to work with say VMS 7.2 or above t
 > won't work. : >    Moving a new version of VMS to an older Alpha system  > should currently   >    always work - see below.e > @ > 4) The firmware of the destination system has been updated to  > be compatibleg= >    with the version of VMS on the disk being moved across.  5 >    (If it isn't then this is fairly quickly fixed).. >  > > > There will shortly be a further qualification since the VMS  > 7.3 SPD for the > > first time listed some Alpha systems which are supported on  > this version and s> > previous versions of VMS but which will not be supported on  > future versions of= > VMS. Whether this "future" version is VMS 7.3-1 or a still n > future VMS 7.4 ,2 > VMS 8.0 awaits publication of the VMS 7.3-1 SPD. >   ? > Once you have got the basic VMS system booting you will then l > obviously need tok3 > do some customization for your new environment egs? > Tell it about what other disks are available, retune for the k > amount of memory' > available, setup new IP addresses etce >    n> > VMS is a dream compared to many other systems when it comes 
 > to disaster 8 > recovery (Though with disaster recovery it is usually  > restoring the system> > disk of a destroyed system to a new system via tapes rather  > than by having a6 > spare copy of the original system disk. However the  > principals are exactly the> > same - just one extra step ie boot from CD to enable you to  > restore the system > disk from tape). >  > David Webb > VMS and Unix team leader > CCSS > Middlesex University >  >  >    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 08:59:15 +0100t% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>q8 Subject: Re: comp.os.vms "whiners" make news on Inquirer8 Message-ID: <ih8ajukh24vpsgta8raffv439rucdun5gq@4ax.com>  A On 16 Jul 2002 16:27:31 -0700, bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)e wrote:     >lG >after talking with Rich Marcello, I pick option 2 ... as long as theres) >are users, it will be there for them ...m  @ As long as there were enough users for HP's MPE then it would beC there. Five years ago HP took the decision (known only to a few) tonD let MPE slip away.  Some of the people involved in that decision are@ now pondering VMS.  The source on this (highly placed within HP)D thinks they made a mistake with MPE. I'm still watching and waiting,   -- Alan   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 13:12:19 GMT # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>m8 Subject: Re: comp.os.vms "whiners" make news on InquirerJ Message-ID: <T2eZ8.119641$WJf1.56368@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>  2 "Alan Greig" <a.greig@virgin.net> wrote in message2 news:ih8ajukh24vpsgta8raffv439rucdun5gq@4ax.com...C > On 16 Jul 2002 16:27:31 -0700, bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)  > wrote: > > I > >after talking with Rich Marcello, I pick option 2 ... as long as there-+ > >are users, it will be there for them ...1 >MB > As long as there were enough users for HP's MPE then it would beE > there. Five years ago HP took the decision (known only to a few) to8F > let MPE slip away.  Some of the people involved in that decision areB > now pondering VMS.  The source on this (highly placed within HP)F > thinks they made a mistake with MPE. I'm still watching and waiting,    * Okay, let's do the math one more time.....   Let:' P = Projected # of customers or systems ) X = current # of VMS customers or systemsi9 Y = the annual attrition rate of VMS customers or systemsr9 Z= the annual gain rate of *new* VMS customers or systems/  ' Using values of your own choice, solve:c P =  X **(1+(Z-Y))  F Try computing it both ways - for # of (c)ustomers, and # of (s)ystems.  : For which value of P(c) or P(s) does HP formally kill VMS? When is Z > Y?- What steps must HP take to ensure that Z > Y?e    I HP must be adding *new* customers at a faster rate than attrition becauseoJ *new* customers won't typically be purchasing as many systems initially asJ former customers are decommissioning systems (ie. new customers will startG by 'testing' the waters so-to-speak with one or two systems before theycK purchase large numbers. Since most VMS customers have more than one system,hH it is simple to see that HP must focus on customer retention in order to( keep the number of installed systems up.    So the big questions to ask are:. 1) How does HP keep VMS customer retention up?H 2) How many *new* VMS customers does it take to equal the number of lost4 systems when an existing customer migrates from VMS?' 3) How does HP get *new* VMS customers?d  H The answers to 1) and 3) are related. It is by ensuring that current andD prospective customers are strong in their belief that HP will not doH anything to impair or threaten their investment in VMS. If they can't doF that for prospective new customers, then they can't do it for existing customers either.   K So how does HP do it? In part it is by visible marketing. Visible marketing K and promotion of VMS shows that HP is willing to make investments that will:K attract new customers. In doing so, it reassures existing customers to somedK extent. Of course there's more to it than that, but that's where it begins.    ------------------------------    Date: 17 Jul 2002 10:21:01 -0700! From: jsewell@iu.net (Joe Sewell) - Subject: Re: Creating a "UNIX disk" under VMSb= Message-ID: <9e311bd1.0207170921.227eb396@posting.google.com>   Z David Mathog <mathog@caltech.edu> wrote in message news:<3D34A300.9A877972@caltech.edu>... > Joe Sewell wrote:t > > G > > I'm working on a program that will need to be able to copy not only J > > VMS disks (using BACKUP/IMAGE), but also UNIX (Solaris, to be precise)G > > disks using BACKUP/PHYSICAL.  Assuming I cannot get the appropriate:H > > group to make a UNIX disk on the media I require, is there any way IH > > can convince VMS (V7.2-1 with UCX) to reinitialize a disk as a "UNIX$ > > disk" (to use the term loosely)? > ? > I'm not sure what you're up to exactly but in a previous life6? > I used BACKUP/PHYSICAL from a VMS boot CD to replicate a disk:> > containing WNT/Alpha and Linux (in separate partitions) from< > one identical disk to another.  It worked fine.  That kind? > of physical replication it doesn't matter what's on the disk.m> > Had the drives been at all different sizes I would have been > out of luck though.m > 
 > Regards, >  > David Mathog > mathog@caltech.edu  = Thanks to all for their responses.  I apologize for not being C sufficiently clear; I believe, though, that the "it depends" answerr1 pretty much takes care of what I was looking for.n  D I'm working on a utility that will copy disks in such a way that theF people using it won't have to give a dingo's kidneys what kind of disk> it is ... the utility will figure out whether it needs to do aF BACKUP/IMAGE or a BACKUP/PHYSICAL to do the job.  (This is replacing aB "home-brew" DCL command procedure that makes them have to know theE difference.)  All the disks will be identical hardware-wise, so "sizetD doesn't matter."  The system I'm developing on doesn't have the sameE type of disk that are used in the final system ... even then, all thekF disks are currently initialized as VMS Files-11 volumes.  I had hoped,C for testing purposes, that I could force one disk to become a "UNIX C disk" (knowing full well that the term is essentially meaningless).U  C From the comments here and further research on my part, I think the F solution is to assume BACKUP/IMAGE if the source disk is Files-11, andC BACKUP/PHYSICAL otherwise.  If the disk is mounted /FOREIGN, or caniB only be mounted /FOREIGN, I'll assume it's not a Files-11 volume. D (No, this won't cover hardware failures and what-not, but the BACKUP! itself should take care of that.)e   ------------------------------    Date: 17 Jul 2002 05:37:44 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)  Subject: Re: CXX questions3 Message-ID: <5NRnkUgBFLZW@eisner.encompasserve.org>P  R In article <3D34CB08.4FE32CC7@lmco.com>, JMK <jeffrey.m.klopotic@lmco.com> writes:: > First, is this the best newsgroup for HPQ CXX questions?  A On VMS, yes.  The answer would be different for running on Tru64.    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 15:46:42 +0200i2 From: martin@radiogaga.harz.de (Martin Vorlaender) Subject: Re: CXX questions; Message-ID: <3d357542.524144494f47414741@radiogaga.harz.de>s  ( JMK (jeffrey.m.klopotic@lmco.com) wrote:; > should the following code (as seen in Stroustrup from theh  > earliest editions) run on CXX?  C I've never read Stroustup's book, but if that example was in there,nC there probably is a reason that it got corrected on later editions.   J > I have two arrays of same data type and size and want to copy one to the4 > other.  Evidently some implementations will allow: >c > 	datatype arr1[10], arr2[10];P >  > 	arr1 = arr2;p  H "Assign the value of arr2 to arr1". But arr1 is the address of an array, and can't be assigned to. So;c  J > But in CXX I get an error message about a needing a modifiable l-value.   ' > So I try the old Stroustrup example..s >m > 	while(*arr1++ = *arr2++); > G > and I still get the same complaint from the compiler about modifiablee
 > l-value.  5 Now you're trying to increment arr1's value - no way.M  I > Is this supposed to be able to run, or is there something that needs to  > be fixed?   J This won't run. However, even ANSI C permits the assignment of structures, so     arr1[1] = arr2[1];  I is guaranteed to copy whatever "datatype" stands for. But not for arrays.v   cu,O   Martin -- tJ One OS to rule them all       | Martin Vorlaender  |  VMS & WNT programmer7 One OS to find them           | work: mv@pdv-systeme.deCJ One OS to bring them all      |   http://www.pdv-systeme.de/users/martinv/> And in the Darkness bind them.| home: martin@radiogaga.harz.de   ------------------------------    Date: 17 Jul 2002 09:52:26 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen): Subject: Re: CXX questions3 Message-ID: <Ah8Ojyc8i0tL@eisner.encompasserve.org>d  p In article <3d357542.524144494f47414741@radiogaga.harz.de>, martin@radiogaga.harz.de (Martin Vorlaender) writes:  L > This won't run. However, even ANSI C permits the assignment of structures, > so >  >   arr1[1] = arr2[1]; > K > is guaranteed to copy whatever "datatype" stands for. But not for arrays.s    In Ada, of course, one would say   	arr1 := arr2;  0 and it would work, even for (compatible) arrays.   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 15:50:15 GMTe From: Jordi Guillaumes i Ponst Subject: Re: CXX questions, Message-ID: <3D358F43.3060103@nospam.please>   Larry Kilgallen wrote:K >>is guaranteed to copy whatever "datatype" stands for. But not for arrays.=" > In Ada, of course, one would say > 	arr1 := arr2;2 > and it would work, even for (compatible) arrays.  F I think it's necessary to overload the assignment operator to do such C ting in C++. I've not spoken C++ for a while, so I'm not 100% sure.e   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 12:04:34 -0400 ; From: "Brian Tillman" <tillman_brian@notnoone.notnohow.com>  Subject: Re: CXX questions$ Message-ID: <3d3595b8$1@news.si.com>  F >First, is this the best newsgroup for HPQ CXX questions?  If not, I'mH >looking for suggestions on where the new one(s) are.  I need to ask our+ >news server admin to add them to the list.h  L comp.sys.hp.hpux might be a good place.  Also, comp.lang.c++ or comp.std.c++ --A Brian Tillman                   Internet: tillman_brian at si.com A Smiths Aerospace                          tillman at swdev.si.comn= 3290 Patterson Ave. SE, MS      Addresses modified to prevents< Grand Rapids, MI 49512-1991     SPAM.  Replace "at" with "@"8        This opinion doesn't represent that of my company   ------------------------------    Date: 17 Jul 2002 09:50:07 -0700" From: cstranslations@msn.com (Joe) Subject: Re: CXX questions= Message-ID: <d56d1c2d.0207170850.4238617c@posting.google.com>   W JMK <jeffrey.m.klopotic@lmco.com> wrote in message news:<3D34CB08.4FE32CC7@lmco.com>...sG > First, is this the best newsgroup for HPQ CXX questions?  If not, I'moI > looking for suggestions on where the new one(s) are.  I need to ask our:, > news server admin to add them to the list. > C > Second, should the following code (as seen in Stroustrup from ther  > earliest editions) run on CXX? > J > I have two arrays of same data type and size and want to copy one to the4 > other.  Evidently some implementations will allow: >  > 	datatype arr1[10], arr2[10];0 >  > 	arr1 = arr2;5 > J > But in CXX I get an error message about a needing a modifiable l-value. ' > So I try the old Stroustrup example..o >  > 	while(*arr1++ = *arr2++); > G > and I still get the same complaint from the compiler about modifiableg
 > l-value.  F Perhaps a suitably old version of the compiler (to match the "earliestF edition" of Stroustrup that you have) will accept the above generatingE various temporaries and side effects. I believe that according to the E current standard "arr1" and "arr2" are constant pointers (to an arrayl of "datatype").p   Joe    ------------------------------    Date: 17 Jul 2002 06:04:05 -0700. From: SPAMSINK2001@YAHOO.COM (Alan E. Feldman)  Subject: Re: Delete of .bck file= Message-ID: <343f30ae.0207170504.3a99d517@posting.google.com>1  ` "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote in message news:<3D34E705.79EDC4AE@fsi.net>... > "Alan E. Feldman" wrote: > > ^ > > p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture) wrote in message news:<UcL+w4UD3grp@elias.decus.ch>...d > > > In article <3D331174.23335CC9@ceris.purdue.edu>, Chuck Aaron <caaron@ceris.purdue.edu> writes:J > > > > I have five *.bck files on one DLT 40/TAPE. The name of the file II > > > > want to delete off the tape is called us15jul02.bck. What commandp > > > > would I use? > > > >lQ > > > You can't. Simple as that. Tapes are serial devices - think about trying to R > > > delete a TV program from a VCR tape or a music track from an audio cassette. > >  > > Why is this hard?i > > & > > 1. Time how long the selection is. > > 4 > > 2. Cue the tape to the beginning of the program. > > = > > 3. Set your VCR to line or if audio provide silent input.t > > O > > 4. Record for the duration of the selection using the time found in step 1.1 > - > That's not "DELETE", that's "COPY/OVERLAY".G    F Actually, it's more like DELETE/ERASE. It would be COPY/OVERLAY if you$ recorded a new program over the old.     Disclaimer: JMHO Alan E. Feldmanr afeldman gfigroup comm   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 08:00:48 GMT.- From: "labadie" <labadie_g.tocardsa@decus.fr> $ Subject: Re: ES40, DE600, clustering1 Message-ID: <Qu9Z8.2$cJ2.101476@news.cpqcorp.net>.  6 "Witchy" <news@sruasonidyranib.co.uk> wrote in message2 news:tm09jugf8h89r4a8l481t71vi1ts9pe72b@4ax.com... > Hi folks,m > H > Another question for you following on from my shadowing questions lastG > week. The 7.3 cluster I'm building consists of 2 ES40s and a DS10 for F > quorum. Both ES40s contain 3 DE600s each, the DS10 has its 2 builtinE > DE500s and a spare DE600. I'm pretty sure all relevant patches havesC > been applied but can't swear on it since the customer has had thes@ > system on test for a while and may have done things without my8 > knowledge; I know they've reinstalled VMS on the DS10. >'H > One ES40 (main) and the DS10 are in the same room, the second (backup)B > is on the other end of a fibre link. There's a switch connectingE > everything together, and for some reason the switch is showing full H > duplex enabled for the main ES40 despite the fact the cards are set to! > Fast mode. The DE500s are fine.a >nE > The main machine is running reasonably happily as a standalone node B > connected to the end user's network using 2 of the DE600s. It'llE > report duplicate packets for every ping sent out but I'm working onr > that. F > However, as soon as everything's clustered it'll last for 10 minutes@ > or so then the cluster interconnect will start reporting a LOTD > excessive packet loss - $show error will give numbers over 120 forG > PEA0 in a few minutes. A minute or so later and the main machine will  > bugcheck.d > H > I can find patches for DE602s and similar problems but nothing for theF > DE600; am I right in thinking the LAN cards are at fault here? We'veG > actually had connection problems right from the word go; in each case F > a change of hub or switch has temporarily masked the problem but its > always come back.....s >e Helloe  2 This will require some work, but it is worth: editI sys$examples:lavc$failure_analysis.mar, enter all your configuration, andfJ run thsi program on all nodes in the Cluster. It will send in operator.log messages similar to : "lavc-i-suspect, the following component is suspect xxa0:"4 Use sys$examples:lavc$build.com to get an .exe file.  H If you have a DE602, check carefully your patches as some problemes have been fixed recently.   Regardsi   Grard   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 09:39:32 +0100 ( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1>$ Subject: Re: ES40, DE600, clustering( Message-ID: <3D352D44.86FF24B@127.0.0.1>  
 Witchy wrote:o >   eE > The main machine is running reasonably happily as a standalone nodefB > connected to the end user's network using 2 of the DE600s. It'llE > report duplicate packets for every ping sent out but I'm working one > that.dF > However, as soon as everything's clustered it'll last for 10 minutes@ > or so then the cluster interconnect will start reporting a LOTD > excessive packet loss - $show error will give numbers over 120 forG > PEA0 in a few minutes. A minute or so later and the main machine willx > bugcheck.o   What is the bugcheck?t   > Any questions, ask away.   --  ? Regards, Nic Clews a.k.a. Mr. CP Charges, CSC Computer Sciencesi nclews at csc dot com    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 09:18:33 +0100 % From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>n$ Subject: Re: ES40, DE600, clustering8 Message-ID: <nj9ajus5a5g579q9gpa3f8f4je2c63oqcj@4ax.com>  * On Tue, 16 Jul 2002 21:44:03 +0100, Witchy# <news@sruasonidyranib.co.uk> wrote:o  A >is on the other end of a fibre link. There's a switch connectingcD >everything together, and for some reason the switch is showing fullG >duplex enabled for the main ES40 despite the fact the cards are set toe  >Fast mode. The DE500s are fine. >eD >The main machine is running reasonably happily as a standalone nodeA >connected to the end user's network using 2 of the DE600s. It'll D >report duplicate packets for every ping sent out but I'm working on >that.E >However, as soon as everything's clustered it'll last for 10 minutes ? >or so then the cluster interconnect will start reporting a LOToC >excessive packet loss - $show error will give numbers over 120 foreF >PEA0 in a few minutes. A minute or so later and the main machine will
 >bugcheck.  C This is almost certainly duplex mismatch. Try forcing the switch to4E half duplex. If the VMS side is at half-duplex and the switch at fullp? duplex (which I think is what you are saying) then you will seeMA exactly the problems you describe. What make/model is the switch?l  E I have our production ES40s locked at half-duplex because that always'@ works for me (and that still leaves us enough bandwidth). If theC cluster then becomes stable investigate using different switches ifeD you really need full duplex, Better still, investigate gigabit cardsA and switches as the auto-negotiation algorithms seem to have been.  sorted out in the Gigabit specs.    G >I can find patches for DE602s and similar problems but nothing for thesE >DE600; am I right in thinking the LAN cards are at fault here? We've F >actually had connection problems right from the word go; in each caseE >a change of hub or switch has temporarily masked the problem but itsc >always come back.....  @ Swapping a switch for a hub will switch from full-duplex to halfA remember. You should get the same effect by forcing the switch tolA half-duplex. Do the switch stats show late collisions and framingY errors?P   >  >Any questions, ask away.t >f >Thanks for reading :) >eF >Oh, reverse domain name to reply by email or fill in the contact formC >at http://www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - my computer museum and smallt >homage to all things DEC.   -- Alan   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 20:46:28 +1000 @ From: "Antony Wardle" <antony.wardle@nospammmmm.optusnet.com.au> Subject: Re: ftp W2K->VMSo: Message-ID: <3d354b0b$0$823$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au>  # You could always zip if first, thent ftp it with the binary optin.    cheers   antn. "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> wrote in message3 news:CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIAEAOFGAA.tom@kednos.com...x4 Have ASCII file to transfer, but no CR only LF which: results in a record size problem, but, of course it may be? transferred in Binary mode.  (HGFTP complains about record size & as it should, UCX and Multinet do not)  < Is there a way to do this on the transfer so I don't have to5 busy myself at the receiving with fixing up the file?t ---a& Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.: Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).@ Version: 6.0.372 / Virus Database: 207 - Release Date: 6/20/2002   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 13:08:59 +0200r9 From: Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com>r Subject: Re: ftp W2K->VMSu' Message-ID: <3D35504B.17D38FB8@aaa.com>-  6 And ZIP/UNZIP (at least on VMS) have options to do the LF -> CRLF conversion :e   ZIP:* -l   convert LF to CR LF (-ll CR LF to LF)   UNZIP: -a  auto-convert any text files9   Not sure about the PC ZIP's...   Jan-Erik Sderholm.u   Antony Wardle wrote: > % > You could always zip if first, thene > ftp it with the binary optin.n >  > cheers >  > antn0 > "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> wrote in message5 > news:CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIAEAOFGAA.tom@kednos.com...s3 > Have ASCII file to transfer, but no CR only LF...o   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 06:49:31 -0700e# From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com>e Subject: RE: ftp W2K->VMSe9 Message-ID: <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIMEBGFGAA.tom@kednos.com>o   Winzip did the trick, thanks.o Tomu   >-----Original Message-----l. >From: Jan-Erik Sderholm [mailto:aaa@aaa.com]' >Sent: Wednesday, July 17, 2002 4:09 AMA >To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com >Subject: Re: ftp W2K->VMS >a >i7 >And ZIP/UNZIP (at least on VMS) have options to do the  >LF -> CRLF conversion : >  >ZIP:o+ >-l   convert LF to CR LF (-ll CR LF to LF)f >e >UNZIP:I  >-a  auto-convert any text files >h >Not sure about the PC ZIP's...a >g >Jan-Erik Sderholm. >  >Antony Wardle wrote:  >>& >> You could always zip if first, then  >> ftp it with the binary optin. >>	 >> cheerse >> >> ant1 >> "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> wrote in messager6 >> news:CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIAEAOFGAA.tom@kednos.com...4 >> Have ASCII file to transfer, but no CR only LF... >d >---' >Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. ; >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).EA >Version: 6.0.372 / Virus Database: 207 - Release Date: 6/20/2002r >  ---o& Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.: Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).@ Version: 6.0.372 / Virus Database: 207 - Release Date: 6/20/2002   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 12:10:17 -0400.; From: "Brian Tillman" <tillman_brian@notnoone.notnohow.com>F Subject: Re: ftp W2K->VMSe$ Message-ID: <3d359711$1@news.si.com>  5 >Have ASCII file to transfer, but no CR only LF whiche" >results in a record size problem,  I Transfer in ASCII.  Once the file's on the VMS side, use SET FILE to make > the arributes Stream_LF.  The file will behave correctly then.  J Alternatively, run it through TECO after it's on the VMS side.  That, too, should make it behave. --A Brian Tillman                   Internet: tillman_brian at si.com A Smiths Aerospace                          tillman at swdev.si.comc= 3290 Patterson Ave. SE, MS      Addresses modified to preventl< Grand Rapids, MI 49512-1991     SPAM.  Replace "at" with "@"8        This opinion doesn't represent that of my company   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 10:54:31 +0200J9 From: Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com>t Subject: Re: How to kill users' Message-ID: <3D3530C7.1A5EBC0B@aaa.com>d   A gun ?n   Jan-Erik Sderholm   Tadimeti Keshav wrote: >  > Hello all,7 > I would like to kill users who refuse to log out evena > after I notify them. >  > How can I do this? >  > Thanks & regards > Kesav1 > 4 > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!?- > Everything you'll ever need on one web pageo/ > from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts? > http://uk.my.yahoo.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 04:38:11 -0400t' From: Howard S Shubs <howard@shubs.net>  Subject: Re: How to kill users< Message-ID: <howard-ACC1F4.04381117072002@enews.newsguy.com>  @ In article <20020717032922.23395.qmail@web21008.mail.yahoo.com>,5  Tadimeti Keshav <keshav_tadimeti@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:r  7 > I would like to kill users who refuse to log out even  > after I notify them.     STOP/ID=pidt   -- o# "Run in circles, scream and shout!"e I hope you have good backups!d* "Is this the right place for an argument?"   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 19:09:10 +0010o% From: paddy.o'brien@zzz.tg.nsw.gov.aue Subject: Re: How to kill users5 Message-ID: <01KK7NGBYG4I000GUB@tgmail.tg.nsw.gov.au>r   Tadimeti Keshav wrote: >  > Hello all,7 > I would like to kill users who refuse to log out evena > after I notify them. >  > How can I do this?   $ stop/id=[pid] ! is pretty good for the process.  f  N Jan-Erik's suggestion of a gun is too instantaneous for some users.  Once the J process has gone, consider some form of long lingering death for the user  him/her/itself.e   Regards, Paddy   ------------------------------  + Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 04:55:06 -0700 (PDT)n. From: Fabio Cardoso <fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br> Subject: Re: How to kill users@ Message-ID: <20020717115506.81496.qmail@web20204.mail.yahoo.com>   Dont be polite with users !:   Just STOP/ID them ! :-))     Regards@   FC e1 --- Tadimeti Keshav <keshav_tadimeti@yahoo.co.uk>4 wrote: > Hello all,2 > I would like to kill users who refuse to log out > even > after I notify them. e >  > How can I do this? >  > Thanks & regards > Kesavo > 4 > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!?- > Everything you'll ever need on one web pagef/ > from News and Sport to Email and Music Chartst > http://uk.my.yahoo.com     =====r ========================== Fbio dos Santos Cardoso OpenVMS System Manager Rio de Janeiro - Brazili fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br ==========================  2 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!?, Yahoo! Autos - Get free new car price quotes http://autos.yahoo.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 14:10:15 +0200 9 From: Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com>t Subject: Re: How to kill users' Message-ID: <3D355EA7.CFC6170B@aaa.com>a  - OK, this is what I would do (no, no gun :-) )-  6 1. Talk to te users and check *why* they don't logout.3 2. Think over again if they realy *need* to logout.wH 3. Check with the users manager(s) if there is something he/she could do    about it.  4. Talk to the users once again.= 5. Check if I could do whatever is needed at some other time. C 5. If nothing else helps, consider writing a should script to check .    for interactive processes and STOP/ID them.  " And above all, always be polite...  ? (This isn't realy a techical question, b.t.w, I'm sure there ist7 some misunderstanding or something similar going on...)a   Jan-Erik Sderholm.0   ------------------------------    Date: 17 Jul 2002 07:12:50 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)" Subject: Re: How to kill users3 Message-ID: <KsUxOlgoQ2xp@eisner.encompasserve.org>-  c In article <3D355EA7.CFC6170B@aaa.com>, Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com> writes:t/ > OK, this is what I would do (no, no gun :-) )o > 8 > 1. Talk to te users and check *why* they don't logout.5 > 2. Think over again if they realy *need* to logout.sJ > 3. Check with the users manager(s) if there is something he/she could do >    about it." > 4. Talk to the users once again.? > 5. Check if I could do whatever is needed at some other time. E > 5. If nothing else helps, consider writing a should script to check 0 >    for interactive processes and STOP/ID them.  F 7. Alter the chargeback algorithm so the user's department gets billed5    more for sessions from which they did not log out.p   ------------------------------  + Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 05:51:18 -0700 (PDT)s. From: Fabio Cardoso <fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br> Subject: Re: How to kill users@ Message-ID: <20020717125118.47398.qmail@web20208.mail.yahoo.com>   User billing ?????     Do you still using it ????   Regards    FC  2 --- Larry Kilgallen <Kilgallen@SpamCop.net> wrote:2 > In article <3D355EA7.CFC6170B@aaa.com>, Jan-Erik4 > =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com> writes:1 > > OK, this is what I would do (no, no gun :-) )u > > 2 > > 1. Talk to te users and check *why* they don't	 > logout. / > > 2. Think over again if they realy *need* to-	 > logout. 2 > > 3. Check with the users manager(s) if there is > something he/she could do  > >    about it.$ > > 4. Talk to the users once again.5 > > 5. Check if I could do whatever is needed at somea
 > other time..0 > > 5. If nothing else helps, consider writing a > should script to check2 > >    for interactive processes and STOP/ID them. > 1 > 7. Alter the chargeback algorithm so the user'sa > department gets billed2 >    more for sessions from which they did not log out.     =====s ========================== Fbio dos Santos Cardoso OpenVMS System Manager Rio de Janeiro - Brazil  fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br ==========================  2 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!?, Yahoo! Autos - Get free new car price quotes http://autos.yahoo.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 08:57:22 -0400 * From: WILLIAM WEBB <WWEBB1@email.usps.gov> Subject: RE: How to kill users- Message-ID: <0033000072849697000002L072*@MHS>h  H =0A$ DELETE/USER/PHYSICAL/PERMANENT/TERMINATE=3D(WITH_EXTREME_PREJUDICE= )t   :^)    WWWebb   -----Original Message-----/ From: Info-VAX-Request@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNETh% Sent: Tuesday, July 16, 2002 11:29 PM"B To: Webb, William W Raleigh, NC; Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNET Subject: How to kill users    
 Hello all,5 I would like to kill users who refuse to log out eveng after I notify them.   How can I do this?   Thanks & regards Kesav2  2 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!?+ Everything you'll ever need on one web pageQ- from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts" http://uk.my.yahoo.com=.   ------------------------------    Date: 17 Jul 2002 08:11:48 -0600- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)u Subject: Re: How to kill users3 Message-ID: <DoPdR7M4vxck@eisner.encompasserve.org>c   In article <20020717032922.23395.qmail@web21008.mail.yahoo.com>, =?iso-8859-1?q?Tadimeti=20Keshav?= <keshav_tadimeti@yahoo.co.uk> writes:r > Hello all,7 > I would like to kill users who refuse to log out even  > after I notify them.   >  > How can I do this?  H    Normally I don't condone violence, but technically the correct answer!    is something like "get a gun."   ;    If you only want to kill their processes, have you tried 2    stop/identifcation?  Or a nice call to $forcex?   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 13:44:38 -0400i2 From: Atlant Schmidt <atlantnospam@mindspring.com> Subject: Re: How to kill users- Message-ID: <3D35AD06.9333EC0@mindspring.com>    Bob Koehler wrote:  J >    Normally I don't condone violence, but technically the correct answer# >    is something like "get a gun."I  " Shoot, why go to all that trouble?  3 Just make 'em use Windows; they'll kill themselves.e   Atlant   ------------------------------  + Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 06:23:40 -0700 (PDT)i. From: Fabio Cardoso <fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br>- Subject: Re: HP Lan Console x Itanium servers @ Message-ID: <20020717132340.60773.qmail@web20210.mail.yahoo.com>   Nobody listening my prays ?k   Reg    FC  3 --- Fabio Cardoso <fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br> wrote:i > Just imagining:; > 4 > As HP Itanium machines will run HP-UX and OpenVMS / > in the same box (I hope) , and to mantain theo6 > compatibility  of HP-UX environments, I imagine that6 > HP will develop a Lan Console for Itanium (for HP-UX6 > use). So, it could be used for OpenVMS machines too. > + > Anyone from the PA-RISC x Alpha x Itaniumr
 > engineering ! > here to answer my question ????  >  > 	 > Regards  >  > FC n >  > =====  > ========================== > Fbio dos Santos Cardoso > OpenVMS System Manager > Rio de Janeiro - Brazil  > fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br > ========================== > 4 > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!?. > Yahoo! Autos - Get free new car price quotes > http://autos.yahoo.com     =====, ========================== Fbio dos Santos Cardoso OpenVMS System Manager Rio de Janeiro - Brazile fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br ==========================  2 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!?, Yahoo! Autos - Get free new car price quotes http://autos.yahoo.com   ------------------------------    Date: 16 Jul 2002 23:30:45 -0700) From: daniel@mimer.se (Daniel Gustafsson)a Subject: Re: Java 1.4 soon?r= Message-ID: <de4cfd03.0207162230.7ca4944f@posting.google.com>n  Z Arne Vajhj <arne.vajhoej@gtech.com> wrote in message news:<3D343611.3ED47C8@gtech.com>... > Charles Gilley wrote:iC > > I notice that I can download 1.3.1 for openVMS alpha.  Any clue I > > when/if 1.4 is coming?  I'm trying to breath some new technology intocH > > my organization, and Java would help me a bit.  90% of my company isH > > totally ignorant of VMS - the alphas just sit in the corner and run, > > and run, and run.....r > 8 > Any particular reason you want 1.4 ? (like java.nio.*) > < > I am pretty sure that the majority of Java stuff are still > using 1.3.1 !+ >  > Arne   JDBC 3.0 is in 1.4..   -- Daniel Gustafssont Mimer SQL Development  http://developer.mimer.see   ------------------------------    Date: 17 Jul 2002 07:59:38 -0600- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)t Subject: Re: Java 1.4 soon?t3 Message-ID: <Ya+DSKUMeBjN@eisner.encompasserve.org>a  h In article <3D343611.3ED47C8@gtech.com>, Arne =?iso-8859-1?Q?Vajh=F8j?= <arne.vajhoej@gtech.com> writes: > 8 > Any particular reason you want 1.4 ? (like java.nio.*) > < > I am pretty sure that the majority of Java stuff are still > using 1.3.1 !   D    I just downloaded a PDF viewer that somebody pointed to here lastC    week.  Unfortunately it's in Java 1.4 and none of my systems cans.    compile it, or run the precompiled classes.   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 12:37:32 GMTa+ From: Roland Barmettler <rob@bbp.ch.remove>t7 Subject: Re: Looking for 2nd power-supply for an AS2100e7 Message-ID: <20020717143728.6c44cdd3.rob@bbp.ch.remove>a   WILLIAM WEBB schrieb:  > 4 > Have you contacted Dave Turner at Island Computers > www dot islandco dot com  3 Thanks for the tip! I've requested a quote for one.    Greetings, Rolandt  F --------------- bbp - Biveroni Batschelet Partners AG ----------------:              Bahnhofstrasse 28, CH-5401 Baden, SwitzerlandF ----------------------------------------------------------------------   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 09:08:47 -0400c* From: WILLIAM WEBB <WWEBB1@email.usps.gov>7 Subject: RE: Looking for 2nd power-supply for an AS2100i- Message-ID: <0033000072851468000002L082*@MHS>v  % =0AWell, if I schrieb that last post,h# then all I can say is "Bitte sehr."c  / So few people do business with honour any more.r  ( From my experience, Dave is one of them.   WWWebb   -----Original Message-----/ From: Info-VAX-Request@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNETt& Sent: Wednesday, July 17, 2002 8:37 AMB To: Webb, William W Raleigh, NC; Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNET7 Subject: RE: Looking for 2nd power-supply for an AS2100      WILLIAM WEBB schrieb:v >e4 > Have you contacted Dave Turner at Island Computers > www dot islandco dot com  3 Thanks for the tip! I've requested a quote for one.    Greetings, Roland   F --------------- bbp - Biveroni Batschelet Partners AG ----------------:              Bahnhofstrasse 28, CH-5401 Baden, SwitzerlandG ----------------------------------------------------------------------=$   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 15:33:46 GMTt0 From: prune@ZAnkh-Morpork.mv.com (Paul Winalski) Subject: Re: McKinley Cometh... 9 Message-ID: <3d358c57.3337763359@proxy.news.easynews.com>m  , On Wed, 10 Jul 2002 18:38:24 -0400, JF Mezei% <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote:o   >Nick Maclaren wrote:aC >> can hide it.  And the IA-64 architecture is the most complicated * >> I have ever seen, by a factor of three. >t9 >In what way would the architecture be 3x more complex ? u  F The instruction set architecture (which is what Nick was referring to)? is far more complex than, say, Power, SPARC, Alpha, or IA-32 in/ many respects:  A - bundling, and the non-orthogonal rules for what combinations of &   instructions can be bundled together  
 - predication2   - rotating register windowsk   - speculation and NATs  D - an astoundingly huge amount of state that has to be saved/restored   during a context switch/  < 3x more complex is, if anything, a conservative observation.   >Shouldn't it be muchnJ >simpler since the chip doesn't have to bother with out of order execution >logic etc etc ?  E That was the original rationale behind EPIC.  In the event it doesn't C seem to have panned out.  The Merced and McKinley chip designs are,n$ if anything, more complex, not less.  M >What "gizmos" does the chip have ?  Does it rely a lot on pipelining ?  doese5 >it have branch prediction ? out of order execution ?o > H >Or does it rely on the compiler to funnel each instruction in the right >execution stream ?L  C To a great extent Itanium relies on the compiler.  And therein liesL the rub.  O >In other words, what are the differences between EPIC and modern RISC chips ing* >terms of how instructions are processed ?  D Not a hell of a lot.  And that's the main argument against EPIC--whyF throw all that complexity in the laps of compiler writers and softwareE developers, when at the end of the day it hasn't reduced the hardware  complexity at all?  N >Is IA64 more complex because it is EPIC, or because it was made by Intel with# >lots of compromises to please HP ?a   It's because it's EPIC.   6 >Also, what is different between Merced and McKinley ?  F Lots of things.  McKinley has more execution units, bigger and better-A designed caches, and better data paths between the various units.C  
 ---------- Remove 'Z' to reply by email.H   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 15:43:14 GMTl0 From: prune@ZAnkh-Morpork.mv.com (Paul Winalski) Subject: Re: McKinley Cometh...o9 Message-ID: <3d35907f.3338827880@proxy.news.easynews.com>e  , On Thu, 11 Jul 2002 16:54:50 -0400, JF Mezei% <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote:u   >WILLIAM WEBB wrote: >> c* >> Using "Near" and "Far" as memory models1 >> suggest that somebody had "Green Eggs and Ham"-1 >> read to them too often when they were a child.  >mM >Weren't those references in dos to subroutine calls while the 8086 was still>J >limited to 16 bit adressing and was using segment registers ? As I recallN >(fuzzy memory), near calls branched to a subroutine in the same "vicinity" asI >current program pointer while "far" calls would branch using the segmentt= >register as well as displacement or something to that order.,  8 Yep.  A "near" pointer was a 16-bit displacement off the: address in the currently active segment register.  A "far"8 pointer was a 16-bit displacement and a segment register: number.  To perform a "near" call you just branched to the: pointer value.  To perform a "far" call you had to set the; instruction segment first and *then* do the branch.  It wasT3 thus necessary for the compiler to know whether the-+ subroutine being called is 'near' or 'far'.   @ >I do not think it was "C" per say, just microsoft "extensions".   Correct.
 ---------- Remove 'Z' to reply by email.g   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 12:05:31 -0400i* From: WILLIAM WEBB <WWEBB1@email.usps.gov> Subject: RE: McKinley Cometh... - Message-ID: <0033000072883952000002L022*@MHS>   . =0AAnd we all know that the Redmond Dictionary contains the following entry:_   Main Entry: ex*ten*sion_ Pronunciation: ik-'sten(t)-sh&ny Function: nounH Etymology: Middle English, from Middle French or Late Latin; Middle Fre=	 nch, fromh5 Late Latin extension-, extensio, from Latin extendere1 Date: 15th century	 resourcesm  H To deploy carefully designed additions to a set of standards which will=  H cause all *other* standard-adherent products to function imperfectly in=  ; an environment where Redmondian products are also deployed.v   -----Original Message-----/ From: Info-VAX-Request@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNETs' Sent: Wednesday, July 17, 2002 11:44 AM.B To: Webb, William W Raleigh, NC; Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNET Subject: RE: McKinley Cometh...     , On Thu, 11 Jul 2002 16:54:50 -0400, JF Mezei% <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote:    >WILLIAM WEBB wrote: >>* >> Using "Near" and "Far" as memory models1 >> suggest that somebody had "Green Eggs and Ham"01 >> read to them too often when they were a child.t > H >Weren't those references in dos to subroutine calls while the 8086 was=  stillH >limited to 16 bit adressing and was using segment registers ? As I rec= allfH >(fuzzy memory), near calls branched to a subroutine in the same "vicin= ity" asuH >current program pointer while "far" calls would branch using the segme= nt= >register as well as displacement or something to that order.-  8 Yep.  A "near" pointer was a 16-bit displacement off the: address in the currently active segment register.  A "far"8 pointer was a 16-bit displacement and a segment register: number.  To perform a "near" call you just branched to the: pointer value.  To perform a "far" call you had to set the; instruction segment first and *then* do the branch.  It was 3 thus necessary for the compiler to know whether theo+ subroutine being called is 'near' or 'far'.   @ >I do not think it was "C" per say, just microsoft "extensions".   Correct.
 ---------- Remove 'Z' to reply by email.=   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 09:57:59 +0200p7 From: "Dijk, Jeroen van" <Jeroen.vanDijk@Getronics.com> 5 Subject: RE: My conversation with Linus about VMS ...sO Message-ID: <2795B75EF003D311801A00A0C906B511011C7043@cucexec.gbc.getronics.nl>.  = > > I said that no matter what, as long as it's alpha, I can _ > take my system@ > > disk and move it from one box to another, and it'll work. I 
 > may have too? > > retune, but I can get a basic OS running with no changes...1 > >1; > > The person's response.... "Wow,  that's *REALLY* nice."a > ( > It'd be even better if it were *TRUE*. > 'Shame it's not, ehh?a  8 I'm working now with HP-UX and learned the trade on VMS.B But I'm wishing every day that having more work in VMS then HP-UX,A Because that is what I doing for my living take tape and restore  ' it on an other system and make it work.o  P With HP-UX I have to work one hour extra to make it work, and if I'm out of luck& it will take more then only one hour. V With VMS I can start the restore. Go home and the next day the system is restored and 5 I can reboot and it works. I'm talking about the OS. l7 Databases are another story. But that is OS independed.'Q Also something like X.25 drivers cost me a hour on HP-UX to get it working again.r  L So, please don't say it is not true, that VMS is *REALLY* nice on this area.  ' I have enough test reports to proof it.l   Just my .02 euro.    A simple D.R. tester.g ing. Jeroen M.W. van Dijke   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 08:51:24 +0200o: From: Karl Rohwedder <extern.karl.rohwedder@volkswagen.de>< Subject: Re: need help: ODBC driver for rdb on OpenVMS Alpha, Message-ID: <3D3513EC.6000003@volkswagen.de>   Evan Kaiser wrote:I > Hi everyone, I'm quite new to the OpenVMS world and need a little help.s > Here's the situation. G > We have an OpenVMS Alpha 6.2 server running a proprietary application M > which contains what must be a pair of Rdb databases (as rdb shows up in therM > license list and is the only database software on the list). This server istN > going to be retired and we want to simply move those databases to a Windows Q > 2000 system running MS SQL Server 2000. The catch is, we need some kind of ODBC-P > server software on the OpenVMS system, and while we do have an OpenVMS expert,N > he's not familiar with database-related stuff with it. Does anyone know of aG > good set of software that can provide ODBC connectivity between theseiP > systems? If we could get an ODBC connection, we could just directly import theR > databases into SQL Server with (hopefully) little hassle, and that would be the N > ideal solution. I know Attunity makes such software, and it looks like CONNXN > does too, so if anyone has opinions about those, I'd be glad to hear them. IO > found another vendor or two that produces such a connection suite, but theirs N > worked only with OpenVMS Alpha 7.x or newer. It'd be nice if we could find aP > vendor with some kind of short-term licensing deal since we obviously won't beL > using it for very long since the Alpha box will be retired, but that's notQ > critical. Any help or suggestions about other vendors would be most welcome. IfrL > you could, please email responses to me at ekaiser@intear.com so I can see. > them as soon as possible. Thanks in advance. >  > Evan >   O If it is RDB, there is another product SQL-Services from Oracle that implementsnV  an ODBC driver for RDB databases. Normally it is on the same CD's as the RDb product.   -- _  - mit freundlichen Gruessen | with best regards!   Karl Rohwedder               uC iT-Ingenieurteam     | Ellernbruch 11       | D-38112 Braunschweig eA Telefon: 0531/515521 | Telefax: 0531/515531 | Mobil: 0172/5434843lH  E-Mail: rohwedder(at)decus.decus.de        | iT-IngTeam(at)t-online.de .          karl.rohwedder(at)it-ingenieurteam.de DATEX-P: 4505018005::ROHWEDDER   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 10:53:16 +0200o9 From: Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com> < Subject: Re: need help: ODBC driver for rdb on OpenVMS Alpha' Message-ID: <3D35307C.90E9172C@aaa.com>   ? If it's a one-time migration, you can use the tools you alreadyo) have that come with the Rdb installation. C "$ RMU /UNLOAD" will, given the right switches, give you plain text_ files_D of all your table data in the Rdb database. Then use the appropriate+ LOAD tool in MS SQLserver to load the data.M  9 Or, if you need on-line access between the two, do this :-; - Make sure you have SQL/Services installed on the VMS box.@< - Download and install the "ODBC driver for Oracle Rdb" from8   www.oracle.com/rdb and install that on come PC client.  B Just a note, there isn't anything called "ODBC server". ODBC is anD API between a PC client and the PC ("client") part of some databases network protocol. As in :i   Oracle "classic" :G PC-app -> ODBC-driver -> SQL*net -> [the network] -> SQL*net lisnter ->? Oracle datatbase   Oracle Rdb :G PC-app -> ODBC-driver -> SQLServices -> [the network] -> SQLServices ->u
 Rdb datatbaseo  F So there is nothing on the server that *knows* that the client actualy is using ODBC.  C If you *realy* don't know anything about Rdb, you need to get a Rdb0
 consultant in to help you.a  ? B.t.w, how was the decission takan to "retire" the VMS system ?u Dosn't it run well ?7 Are there not a some applications around the database ? D Is it *just* to move the table data from one database to the other ?D What "improvments" are you expecting to see by moving the database ?  C You say you have a VMS "expert", well, most VMS experts know enughta  of Rdb to be able to fix this...   Jan-Erik Sderholm) (18 years with VMS and 12 years with Rdb)a        Evan Kaiser wrote: > I > Hi everyone, I'm quite new to the OpenVMS world and need a little help.4 > Here's the situation.iG > We have an OpenVMS Alpha 6.2 server running a proprietary applicationaM > which contains what must be a pair of Rdb databases (as rdb shows up in theuM > license list and is the only database software on the list). This server istM > going to be retired and we want to simply move those databases to a WindowseQ > 2000 system running MS SQL Server 2000. The catch is, we need some kind of ODBCmP > server software on the OpenVMS system, and while we do have an OpenVMS expert,N > he's not familiar with database-related stuff with it. Does anyone know of aG > good set of software that can provide ODBC connectivity between thesemP > systems? If we could get an ODBC connection, we could just directly import theQ > databases into SQL Server with (hopefully) little hassle, and that would be thehN > ideal solution. I know Attunity makes such software, and it looks like CONNXN > does too, so if anyone has opinions about those, I'd be glad to hear them. IO > found another vendor or two that produces such a connection suite, but theirs=N > worked only with OpenVMS Alpha 7.x or newer. It'd be nice if we could find aP > vendor with some kind of short-term licensing deal since we obviously won't beL > using it for very long since the Alpha box will be retired, but that's notQ > critical. Any help or suggestions about other vendors would be most welcome. If0L > you could, please email responses to me at ekaiser@intear.com so I can see. > them as soon as possible. Thanks in advance. >  > Evan   ------------------------------    Date: 17 Jul 2002 02:14:12 -0700# From: dooleys@snowy.net.au (dooley)n< Subject: Re: need help: ODBC driver for rdb on OpenVMS Alpha= Message-ID: <1ca82fc6.0207170114.5e812cd6@posting.google.com>   u etkaiser@softhome.net (Evan Kaiser) wrote in message news:<we2Z8.17712$Kx3.15152@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net>...rI > Hi everyone, I'm quite new to the OpenVMS world and need a little help.a     Better late than never!l   > Here's the situation.rG > We have an OpenVMS Alpha 6.2 server running a proprietary applicationnM > which contains what must be a pair of Rdb databases (as rdb shows up in thelM > license list and is the only database software on the list). This server isRM > going to be retired and we want to simply move those databases to a WindowsaQ > 2000 system running MS SQL Server 2000. The catch is, we need some kind of ODBCtP > server software on the OpenVMS system, and while we do have an OpenVMS expert,N > he's not familiar with database-related stuff with it. Does anyone know of aG > good set of software that can provide ODBC connectivity between these P > systems? If we could get an ODBC connection, we could just directly import theR > databases into SQL Server with (hopefully) little hassle, and that would be the N > ideal solution. I know Attunity makes such software, and it looks like CONNXN > does too, so if anyone has opinions about those, I'd be glad to hear them. IO > found another vendor or two that produces such a connection suite, but theirsvN > worked only with OpenVMS Alpha 7.x or newer. It'd be nice if we could find aP > vendor with some kind of short-term licensing deal since we obviously won't beL > using it for very long since the Alpha box will be retired, but that's notQ > critical. Any help or suggestions about other vendors would be most welcome. If-L > you could, please email responses to me at ekaiser@intear.com so I can see. > them as soon as possible. Thanks in advance. >  > Evan  9 If you have a tcpip and sql services running on the alphas6 then all you need to do is get the odbc driver for rdbC from the oracle web site, then you can either link or import tables ! from either access or sql server.u  D sql services starts using SYS$COMMON:[SYS$STARTUP]SQLSRV$STARTUP.COM  @ if it is running you should have a number of processes like this  F 2C80013C RDMS_MONITOR    LEF     15     4183   0 00:00:29.87     40238     32 this is the main rdb monitorF 2C80013D sqlsrv_mon_00   HIB      6      269   0 00:00:35.91       294    331* this is sql services monitor (or listener)F 2C80013F SQLSRV_DIS003   HIB      6   120310   0 00:01:55.84       301    321" this runs interactive sql (maybe?)F 2C800144 GENERI0040001   HIB      6      454   0 00:00:22.58      1148    376F 2C800145 GENERI0040002   HIB      6     7106   0 00:02:47.77      2363.   1171   the last 2 are generic user processes  ( To configure the odbc driver it needs :- name: xxxrdb description: rdb attach: transport: tcp/ipr server: node name of alpha class: generic j< userid: whatever (it will ask for password when you connect)2 attach: attach 'filename diskn:[directory]xxx.rdb' (note the single quotes)  5 On the server side you should see some activity in a o5 generic process when you connect and start importing.e  9 If you have any problems just check the logs on the alpha.6 they may go in sys$startup or under user sqlsrv$deflt.   Phil   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 13:12:38 GMT)5 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com>r Subject: Re: Nostalgia1 Message-ID: <a3eZ8.8$JS2.356499@news.cpqcorp.net>w  I According to the edit histiory, phone is circa 1980, and was derived from2G TALK which I would guess is circa 1978 or so.  But I believe there wered) equivalents on RSTS, RSX, and TOPS-10/20.a      8 Dirk Munk wrote in message <3D3505F9.9040708@home.nl>...D >Could be that Phone already was a part of RSX-11,  so it was around >before VMS .... >  >Dirk  >e >Michael Austin wrote: >rG >>Okay, which came first Unix 'talk' or VMS Phone? -- and can you proveI >>it?  my dates are alot fuzzy.m >> >e   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 14:56:44 +0100 ( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1> Subject: Re: Nostalgia) Message-ID: <3D35779C.6CB8A8C0@127.0.0.1>e   Fred Kleinsorge wrote: > K > According to the edit histiory, phone is circa 1980, and was derived fromtI > TALK which I would guess is circa 1978 or so.  But I believe there wereo+ > equivalents on RSTS, RSX, and TOPS-10/20.    Oh! I'd forgotten TALK on RSTS.f   <spill the beans>a  F At a college expo, those that shall remain nameless wrote a program asF part of a games suite (menu driven) for a PDP under RSTS which allowedE the user to 'talk' to the computer, which was a menu driven interfaceeA with a few stock answers, and the ability to enter freeform text, @ running on the console in a separate room. Questions varied, butF sporting trivia and history was quite popular, as well as geographicalC questions, where a 'runner' would visit the college library for theeG answer! Other questions demanded a little imagination, but for the mosti part, visitors were impressed.   </spill the beans>   > >Michael Austin wrote: > > I > >>Okay, which came first Unix 'talk' or VMS Phone? -- and can you prove-! > >>it?  my dates are alot fuzzy.      -- m? Regards, Nic Clews a.k.a. Mr. CP Charges, CSC Computer Sciencese nclews at csc dot comD   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 15:00:10 GMT6, From: "Kevin Greaney" <kevin.greaney@hp.com>7 Subject: Re: OpenSSL and certificates concept questions"2 Message-ID: <_DfZ8.16$HS2.354438@news.cpqcorp.net>  5 "Rich Jordan" <duodec@speakeasy.net> wrote in messagee& news:3D30B03C.5040706@speakeasy.net...! > david20@alpha1.mdx.ac.uk wrote:iA > > In article <cc5619f2.0207121235.74601f9c@posting.google.com>,d( jordan@ccs4vms.com (Rich Jordan) writes: > >u7 > >>Rich Jordan <duodec@speakeasy.net> wrote in messagea( news:<3D2E5D27.1020106@speakeasy.net>... > >>4 > >> ..... but still looking for a way to get SSL toC > >>read an environment variable (symbol or logical?) to locate theaJ > >>'random seed file' we provided to get s_client working; changes to the: > >>openssl.cnf file also don't seem to make a difference. > >> > >eI > > Don't know if this will help but in order to generate certificates on  VMSeL > > you need to seed the random number generator - the recommended procedure is :-t > >d > > ........ >  > This is documented on :-e >  >H >  > http://www.ourservers.net/openvms_ports/openssl/openssl3.html#ss3.1 >  > >  > David,F >       thanks very much for the info, and especially for that URL.  IC > don't believe google managed to provide that one yet (or I hadn'te5 > managed to come up with the right set of keywords).< >B
 > Rich Jordano >  >j Hi Rich,I From reading this thread it sounds as if you have downloaded OpenSSL fromdK their website.  Just to let you know, there is a layered product kit comingaK out called Compaq SSL for OpenVMS Alpha (based on OpenSSL 0.9.6b).  BesidesmH having everything you get from the website, we added 64-bit API support,L programming examples and a new manual to the doc set devoted to OpenSSL.  It/ will be available in the next couple of months.a   Kevin.   ------------------------------  + Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 06:25:11 -0700 (PDT)t. From: Fabio Cardoso <fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br> Subject: OpenVMS + OpenViews@ Message-ID: <20020717132511.80887.qmail@web20206.mail.yahoo.com>  3 Anyone know if the improvment of OpenView announced05 by HP will have improvements in OpenVMS (such agents,@ etc ...) ???     Regardsu   FC R   =====e ========================== Fbio dos Santos Cardoso OpenVMS System Manager Rio de Janeiro - Brazil  fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br ==========================  2 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!?, Yahoo! Autos - Get free new car price quotes http://autos.yahoo.com   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 12:40:44 GMTt, From: "Kenneth Farmer" <kfarmer@openvms.org>5 Subject: OpenVMS mentioned by HP in Itanium 2 article > Message-ID: <gBdZ8.42160$7k7.1023655@twister.southeast.rr.com>  1 CW360: Software that will run on 64-bit Itanium 2   9 http://www.openvms.org/stories.php?story=02/07/17/9249546g     --   Kenneth Farmer http://www.Tru64.org http://www.OpenVMS.org http://www.LinuxHPC.orge   ------------------------------   Date: 17 Jul 2002 16:24:18 GMT2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)6 Subject: Re: Problems to load OpenVMS V7.3 on DEC 4610* Message-ID: <ah45ni$9im$2@web1.cup.hp.com>  G In article <02070912404572@msia02.msi.se>, system@msia02.msi.se writes:f :t8 :I have a DEC 4610 onto which I want to load OpenVMS 7.3" :VMS PALcode V.56A  Console V4.0-1  E   I do not know off-hand if these are the current firmware revisions.-B   Please check the website (referenced in the FAQ) for the currentF   firmware.  That said, the PALcode "V.56A" reference here looks like    a typographic error.    :When I try to boot the CD I get .. :u< :Failed to send Read to dke400.4.0.4.0 ... status = 00000054 :1% :If I instead try V7.2-1 it works ok. > :I have used the V7.3 CD on other systems without any problem.    C   I would try another CD-ROM drive, and I would try another copy ofk   the media.       $ exit %x54 -     %SYSTEM-F-CTRLERR, fatal controller errors     $   D   It would appear that your distribution media or your CD-ROM drive :   are having some (compatibility or readability) problems.  ?   That the media happens to works elsedrive does not imply thatu"   the media will work universally.  A   Once you have verified the drive and the media, it would appeariB   to be time to report this to your hardware support organization.C   (This based on the %x54 controller error -- this could eventuallyIC   prove to be software, as well, but the troubleshooting used here n0   would appear to best start with the hardware.)    N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------N       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.com    N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 09:10:48 -0700.# From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com>- Subject: SMTP question9 Message-ID: <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIKEBPFGAA.tom@kednos.com><  7 tcpip5.1 on Alpha 7.3 pop client Outlook on W2K server.p  7 Every now and then (couple of months) I can't send mailEA because of timeout to the smtp server.  Still continue receiveingqE mail, however.  The problem is (temporarily) resolved by stopping andt starting SMTP.   Anybody else experience this?u --- & Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.: Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).@ Version: 6.0.372 / Virus Database: 207 - Release Date: 6/20/2002   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 08:41:27 -0700e, From: "James Gessling" <jgessling@yahoo.com>$ Subject: Re: SOAP and XML On OpenVMS4 Message-ID: <ah4378$q75af$1@ID-46415.news.dfncis.de>  / Have a look at:  http://vms.stabilit.ch/uspweb/,   Jims    . "Hal Kuff" <kuff@comcast.net> wrote in messageI news:CD6E9591EB3366C7.547D74644E71FD90.5D0292A2A65F702E@lp.airnews.net...v > J >     We're looking for a product/library that will take an XML file, send itJ > via SOAP/SSL to a remote service, wait for the return file, and place it. > back on the system with logging retry etc... >A >n   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 10:18:51 GMTe: From: "Charles Morrall" <charles.morrall@nospam.telia.com>Y Subject: Re: StorageWorks HSG controllers, do you use STEAM agents or the Management Appl 5 Message-ID: <fwbZ8.47760$n4.11737419@newsc.telia.net>l  A > I'm curious to know the positives and the negatives of managingwE > StorageWorks HSG80 controllers with the Compaq, now HPQ, Management $ > Appliance instead of STEAM agents. >n# > Are STEAM agents still supported?d >  > Have you switched? >r  I I haven't used Steam agents for a long time. I tend to configure an HSG80eF the old-fashioned way via direct CLI. As for error reporting, the SWMAK (SANWorks Management Appliance) is almost a must have. You can configure it D to send pager or mail on error, or to forward SNMP traps to whatever) management tools you use in your network.nH The SWMA is the base for several applications, the HSG80 Element ManagerG being one of them. Others incluse Enterprise Volume Manager, Allocation3 Reporter, Network View.5 /charles   ------------------------------    Date: 17 Jul 2002 06:00:29 -0700$ From: jpdiscover@hotmail.com (disco)Y Subject: Re: StorageWorks HSG controllers, do you use STEAM agents or the Management Appl-= Message-ID: <9b579c86.0207170500.3912215b@posting.google.com>k  C Can anyone suggest good web links or resources (outside of Compaq'sD) documentation) for managing these arrays?-  D What would lead you to believe that the STEAM agent is not supported	 any more?o   discol   W.E. Peccant <wepeccant-CUT-THIS-OUT-@hotmail-AND-THIS-TOO.com> wrote in message news:<sms9ju8h1dkutk5hjgur0s48ibpr5ht8vq@4ax.com>...yA > I'm curious to know the positives and the negatives of managingtE > StorageWorks HSG80 controllers with the Compaq, now HPQ, Managements$ > Appliance instead of STEAM agents. > # > Are STEAM agents still supported?e >  > Have you switched? > F > If you want to reply directly to me by email, please edit the return
 > address. >  > Thanks for your comments,t >  > Bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 16:36:14 +0100C# From: David Webb <d.webb@mdx.ac.uk>e< Subject: Re: TCPIP Services anti-spam feature for SMTP relay( Message-ID: <3D358EEE.2040100@mdx.ac.uk>   Bob Ceculski wrote:e  g > Jonathan Boswell <jsb@ost.cdrh.fda.gov> wrote in message news:<3D343B90.36C3308E@ost.cdrh.fda.gov>...a >  >>Bob Ceculski wrote:h >>G >>>that's not a problem with TCPware ... I can allow any user or domainy# >>>to relay based on ip address ...R >>>oQ >>Bob!  I expected you to sing the merits of TCPware.  But you're admitting abovetP >>that it cannot do SMTP AUTH nor POP-before-SMTP?  This makes it no better thanJ >>TCPIP Services.  Note that TCPIP Services can already filter based on IP
 >>address. >> >> - JB? >> > C > it sure can, with ssh server and port forwarding, you can encrypt  > the whole smtp session!, >   , Which relates to anti-relaying in what way ?   PMDF can do SASL and SMTP AUTH.r6 Don't know whether MX might also do something similar.  
 David Webb VMS and Unix team leader CCSS Middlesex University   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 16:58:07 +0100e# From: David Webb <d.webb@mdx.ac.uk>i< Subject: Re: TCPIP Services anti-spam feature for SMTP relay( Message-ID: <3D35940F.7020300@mdx.ac.uk>   Bob Ceculski wrote:n  g > Jonathan Boswell <jsb@ost.cdrh.fda.gov> wrote in message news:<3D344033.6BF09EB2@ost.cdrh.fda.gov>...d >  >>Martin Vorlaender wrote: >> >>>IMHO, POP-before-SMTP: >>>features the typical *ix hack method to solve problems. >>>nL >>It has the unique elegance of adding anti-spam security while requiring noO >>reconfiguration of email clients.  SMTP AUTH requires this reconfiguration attP >>minimum, or even worse, a forced "upgrade" for users of email clients which doR >>not support this feature.  This is a big deal.  Some folks have kept using theirM >>favorite email client for over 10 years, retaining hundreds of contacts andwN >>thousands of messages in some format which cannot easily be transferred to aO >>more modern email client program.  Even hackish solutions on a few servers is L >>IMHO superior to forcing a migration onto unwilling customers!  They could  >>migrate right off VMS instead. >> >> - JBl >> > F > apop is out!  SSH server smtp sessions are in ... and now ssh serverC > is just not only available on tcpware and multinet, but ucx usersrD > can get ssh server from process to authenticate and encrypt on anyC > static port app ... including smtp ... this is the new apop, it's H > more secure than apop, any pc users can find an ssh client (i.e. fish) > so what's the problem? >   B The problem is that this has nothing to do with the problem under E discussion. APOP is a protocol used by Eudora (and maybe a few other  H mail clients) to allow users to change their password on the mail server9 system. It has nothing to do with anti-relaying measures. J SSH and SSH port forwarding has nothing to do with anti-relaying measures.   The problem :-  D You have implemented anti-relaying so that any mail connection from F outside which is sending mail to someone outside your organisation is G blocked. This is based on the IP address your incoming mail connection tH is coming from. You have people who work from home or elsewhere and who C use their own local ISP. These people therefore have an IP address oH associated with that ISP not with your organisation. Hence if they send F mail through your mailhub to anyone outside your organisation it gets # blocked by the anti-relaying rules.V  % The standard solutions to this are :-S  E 1) You get the people working from home to send the mail out through nH their ISPs mailhub rather than through your mailhub. Generally they can = set the reply-to/from address to be their works mail address.wH (A few ISPs did start blocking use of 'foreign' from addresses but this G caused so many problems in this type of situation that I don't believe n' any employ such restrictions nowadays.)e  G 2) Use either SMTP AUTH or POP-before-SMTP. These methods authenticate eI the user either explicitly or by requiring the user to have successfully uD logged onto their POP account and then since they are authenticated - allow them to bypass the anti-relaying rules.kF There are RFCs describing SMTP AUTH. I don't think there are any RFCs 2 describing POP-before-SMTP (but I could be wrong).  F 3) Bypass the problem altogether by using webmail (or by allowing the G user to connect over telnet or ssh  and login directly and use a local aF mail client). Mail is then being sent directly from within the domain 5 and hence is not affected by the anti-relaying rules.s        
 David Webb VMS and Unix team leader CCSS Middlesex University   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 16:53:19 +0200 4 From: "Heinz Oswald" <Heinz.Oswald@gero-computer.de>A Subject: Re: Terminal Emu to MicroVaxII - typed characters effectn/ Message-ID: <ah40d0$h88$02$1@news.t-online.com>h  E "Heinz Oswald" <Heinz.Oswald@gero-computer.de> schrieb im Newsbeitrag2) news:aguq3p$pue$07$1@news.t-online.com...C > Hello, >_C > since last week, I became an _operator_ of a MicroVaxII, 630QB-A3i >qD > The machine was accidentlly _found_ in one of the production hallsK > of our customer. The only ( ! ) attached VT340 now is at it's end. ( lots) of > black smoke ).9 > The VAX serves as a controller for a processing center. 4 > (seems it has been there since years and running )   Thanks a lot for the advices.s Seems now I came a bit nearer:  ; 1. After the login as an user, it is necessary to issue thei: command "cmd". This starts an application. The application6 uses ASCII graphics to draw lines and coloured fields.; I tried ZOC as an alternate emulation, but it provides onlyn1 vt220. With this the screen appears really worse.n  8 2. I removed the old serial cable ( 20 meters long ) and took a short one ( 1 meter ).s* About one hour production without effects.  ? Then I switched the selector at the bulkhead from 9600 to 4800.n! Until now ( 4 hours ) no effects.-  . Maybe the malfunction of the vt340 damaged the serial interface ?  > 3. Now I am looking for a technician in germany to check that. Hope I can find one.   Any hints ?2    
 Kind regards,p   Heinz Oswald   ------------------------------    Date: 17 Jul 2002 05:39:38 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)B$ Subject: Re: Terminal input from DCL3 Message-ID: <Ok0PIR8gwsIN@eisner.encompasserve.org>   [ In article <3D34E8C1.71BCBFBA@fsi.net>, "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> writes:o > "John.Malmberg" wrote: >> . >> Frits A.M. Storms wrote:s	 >> > L.S. P >> > As DCL does not provide a precise input routine (I am missing featues like:O >> > Predefined maximum number of characters in length, editable default stringeP >> > to start with, handling of function keys, character string with the preciseK >> > characters that are allowed) as can be seen from 3GL-applications I am 1 >> > looking for the easiest way to realise this. Q >> > Is there a nifty freeware application I missed, or can I build (using GNU C)oQ >> > a simple routine by calling TPU or another system service that is suitable ?' >> > yours sincerely,S >>  K >> You may want to look at the OpenVMS RTL Screen Management (SMG$) manual.t > $ > These are accessible via DCL???!!!  9 No, but the original post was an overconstrained problem.l   ------------------------------   Date: 17 Jul 2002 08:27:44 GMT, From: rpw3@rigden.engr.sgi.com (Rob Warnock)Q Subject: Re: Tops-10/Tops-20 features not in VMS ?, was: Re: Looking for terminalg. Message-ID: <ah39q0$9aipg$1@fido.engr.sgi.com>  C Simon Clubley <clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP> wrote:r +---------------5 | Michael Austin <maustin@firstdbasource.com> writes:fK | > One of abuses I had heard of was a "sys admin" (term used very lightly)aG | > that would go into "assist" mode with a user they were watching andn& | > "auto correct" misspelled words... | H | How accurate was that Tops-10/Tops-20 feature and how useful was it in | actual use ? | L | [As anyone who has worked with Gnat (the Ada compiler) will tell you, GnatK | tries to work out what spelling you really meant, but it's the first time:$ | that I have heard of it in a CLI.] +---------------  = The idea is *ancient*, especially if you consider the REPL of@; a Lisp Machine to be a "command line" [it is, really]. See:e  @     <URL:http://www.tuxedo.org/~esr/jargon/html/entry/DWIM.html>5     [In BBNLISP/INTERLISP and in the Xerox PARC CLI.]c   and:  C     <URL:http://www.mit.edu/afs/athena/project/atic/src/rk/rk.cat1>wB     The Reactive Keyboard is a general-purpose command-line editorC     with the addition of predictive text generation.  It interfacesoC     with a standard shell and allows simple editing of input lines.fA     It will also predict new input lines based on previous input.s     ...eD     The Reactive Keyboard (rk) accelerates typewritten communicationB     with a computer system by predicting what the user is going toG     type next. To enable it to make predictions, a model of previously- 6     entered text is created and maintained adaptively.     ... F     Obviously predictions are not always correct, but they are correctD     often enough to form the basis of a useful communication device.A     Since they are created adaptively, based on what the user hashA     already typed in this session or in previous ones, the systemfB     conforms to whatever kind of text is being entered. Prediction>     accuracy improves continually as user history accumulates.  @     Present implementations have proved most useful in enhancingD     the command interface to the UNIX operating system by predictingG     commands, arguments, and filenames; and for the entry of free text.      ...r     -Rob   -----m% Rob Warnock, 30-3-510		<rpw3@sgi.com>v/ SGI Network Engineering		<http://www.rpw3.org/>x, 1600 Amphitheatre Pkwy.		Phone: 650-933-1673# Mountain View, CA  94043	PP-ASEL-IAu  C [Note: aaanalyst@sgi.com and zedwatch@sgi.com aren't for humans ]  m   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 15:25:05 +0100@( From: Ade <abirkett@unnecessary.csc.com>% Subject: VAX to Alpha migration tools 3 Message-ID: <3D357E40.43E89DA9@unnecessary.csc.com>@   Hi,.  D I need a list of available tools for the said job. I know about VESTC (DEC-Migrate), are there any others or can someone point me at some ? relevant services (HP or otherwise). All information gratefully_	 recieved._   Ade_   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 16:32:19 +0200c9 From: Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com>-) Subject: Re: VAX to Alpha migration toolsM' Message-ID: <3D357FF3.1854B2D4@aaa.com>m   Compilers, LINK, COPY, ...  ( Goto http://www.openvms.compaq.com:8000/ and search the page for "migr".r   Jan-Erik Sderholm  
 Ade wrote: >  > Hi,  > F > I need a list of available tools for the said job. I know about VESTE > (DEC-Migrate), are there any others or can someone point me at someOA > relevant services (HP or otherwise). All information gratefully- > recieved.7 >  > Ade6   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 07:23:49 -0700:# From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> ) Subject: RE: VAX to Alpha migration tools.9 Message-ID: <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJICEBJFGAA.tom@kednos.com>s   What are you migrating?I   >-----Original Message-----a0 >From: Ade [mailto:abirkett@unnecessary.csc.com]' >Sent: Wednesday, July 17, 2002 7:25 AMh >To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com& >Subject: VAX to Alpha migration tools >e >e >Hi, >hE >I need a list of available tools for the said job. I know about VESTeD >(DEC-Migrate), are there any others or can someone point me at some@ >relevant services (HP or otherwise). All information gratefully
 >recieved. >4 >Ade >  >---' >Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.d; >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).oA >Version: 6.0.372 / Virus Database: 207 - Release Date: 6/20/2002h >e --- & Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.: Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).@ Version: 6.0.372 / Virus Database: 207 - Release Date: 6/20/2002   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 07:29:02 -0700k# From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com>h) Subject: RE: VAX to Alpha migration toolsu9 Message-ID: <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIGEBKFGAA.tom@kednos.com>   F I tried that just for curiosity, because I have never had much successE searching their web site, and indeed I came up with two entries, botho related to Himalaya!   >-----Original Message-----e. >From: Jan-Erik Sderholm [mailto:aaa@aaa.com]' >Sent: Wednesday, July 17, 2002 7:32 AM  >To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com* >Subject: Re: VAX to Alpha migration tools >a >s >Compilers, LINK, COPY, ...n >.) >Goto http://www.openvms.compaq.com:8000/-  >and search the page for "migr". >- >Jan-Erik Sderholm  >e >Ade wrote:  >> >> Hi, >>G >> I need a list of available tools for the said job. I know about VESTaF >> (DEC-Migrate), are there any others or can someone point me at someB >> relevant services (HP or otherwise). All information gratefully >> recieved. >> >> Ade >1 >---' >Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.p; >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). A >Version: 6.0.372 / Virus Database: 207 - Release Date: 6/20/2002  >l ---e& Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.: Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).@ Version: 6.0.372 / Virus Database: 207 - Release Date: 6/20/2002   ------------------------------    Date: 17 Jul 2002 09:55:28 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) ) Subject: Re: VAX to Alpha migration toolse3 Message-ID: <M9gdBFpXN7ty@eisner.encompasserve.org>"  ^ In article <3D357E40.43E89DA9@unnecessary.csc.com>, Ade <abirkett@unnecessary.csc.com> writes: > Hi,f > F > I need a list of available tools for the said job. I know about VESTE > (DEC-Migrate), are there any others or can someone point me at someD& > relevant services (HP or otherwise).  E _Lots_ of vendors offer VAX->Alpha VMS migration services, and I have 5 seen increased interest in that within the past year.   8 I had always presumed that CSC was one of those vendors.  C As a previous poster said, "What are you migrating ?"  I would send I you in different directions depending on the nature of the existing code.a   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 17:03:45 +0200 9 From: Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com>7) Subject: Re: VAX to Alpha migration toolsu' Message-ID: <3D358751.3DB3C6BA@aaa.com>i   Tried what ?' http://www.openvms.compaq.com:8000/  ??h  $ That should give you a page saying .6 "This site contains documentation for OpenVMS Versions#   7.3, 7.2-1, 7.2-1H1, and 7.2-2 ."e   Dosn't it ?e  < Searching the page for "migr" I find the following manuals :  < "Migrating an Application from OpenVMS VAX to OpenVMS Alpha"< "Migrating an Environment from OpenVMS VAX to OpenVMS Alpha"> "Migrating to an OpenVMS AXP System: Recompiling and Relinking
 Applications"P< "Migrating to an OpenVMS AXP System: Planning for Migration"     Jan-Erik Sderholm     Tom Linden wrote:, > H > I tried that just for curiosity, because I have never had much successG > searching their web site, and indeed I came up with two entries, both- > related to Himalaya! >    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 08:26:16 -0700R# From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com>o) Subject: RE: VAX to Alpha migration tools 9 Message-ID: <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIGEBMFGAA.tom@kednos.com>m  K A little dense, my fault, I thought you meant to use the search function onu
 that page.   >-----Original Message-----h. >From: Jan-Erik Sderholm [mailto:aaa@aaa.com]' >Sent: Wednesday, July 17, 2002 8:04 AM  >To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com* >Subject: Re: VAX to Alpha migration tools >m >a
 >Tried what ?8( >http://www.openvms.compaq.com:8000/  ?? >'% >That should give you a page saying . 7 >"This site contains documentation for OpenVMS Versionsw$ >  7.3, 7.2-1, 7.2-1H1, and 7.2-2 ." >p >Dosn't it ? >f= >Searching the page for "migr" I find the following manuals :  >e= >"Migrating an Application from OpenVMS VAX to OpenVMS Alpha"a= >"Migrating an Environment from OpenVMS VAX to OpenVMS Alpha"o? >"Migrating to an OpenVMS AXP System: Recompiling and Relinkinge >Applications"= >"Migrating to an OpenVMS AXP System: Planning for Migration"R >T >P >Jan-Erik Sderholme >r >o >Tom Linden wrote: >>I >> I tried that just for curiosity, because I have never had much successlH >> searching their web site, and indeed I came up with two entries, both >> related to Himalaya!e >> >w >---' >Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.e; >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). A >Version: 6.0.372 / Virus Database: 207 - Release Date: 6/20/2002P >e ---t& Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.: Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).@ Version: 6.0.372 / Virus Database: 207 - Release Date: 6/20/2002   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 11:41:25 -0400 . From: "David Pikcilingis" <piks@speakeasy.net>) Subject: Re: VAX to Alpha migration toolse/ Message-ID: <ujb42ch7hu3i89@corp.supernews.com>A  D If you are migrating from OpenVMS to Tru64 or Linux, Boston Business/ Computing has some tools that might be helpful.   J EDT+ - provides the familiar and powerful features of  EDT on UNIX as well as many EVE/TPU features.a! VCL - is a DCL emulation for UNIXc; Vbackup - Reads and writes OpenVMS BACKUP save sets on UNIXg  ; Evaluations are available for the asking at sales@bosbc.com   , EDT+ and VCL are also available for Windows.   David Pikcilingis3 Boston Business Computing>
 www.bosbc.comt  . "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> wrote in message3 news:CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJICEBJFGAA.tom@kednos.com...o > What are you migrating?u >u > >-----Original Message-----s2 > >From: Ade [mailto:abirkett@unnecessary.csc.com]) > >Sent: Wednesday, July 17, 2002 7:25 AMi > >To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com( > >Subject: VAX to Alpha migration tools > >  > >t > >Hi, > >>G > >I need a list of available tools for the said job. I know about VESTgF > >(DEC-Migrate), are there any others or can someone point me at someB > >relevant services (HP or otherwise). All information gratefully > >recieved. > >e > >Ade > >e > >---) > >Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.n= > >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).oC > >Version: 6.0.372 / Virus Database: 207 - Release Date: 6/20/2002. > >  > ---l( > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.< > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).B > Version: 6.0.372 / Virus Database: 207 - Release Date: 6/20/2002 >o   ------------------------------    Date: 17 Jul 2002 11:09:01 -0600+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) ) Subject: Re: VAX to Alpha migration toolsi3 Message-ID: <g8gemFNcStsr@eisner.encompasserve.org>?  ` In article <ujb42ch7hu3i89@corp.supernews.com>, "David Pikcilingis" <piks@speakeasy.net> writes:  , > If you are migrating from OpenVMS to Tru64  < 	Thanks for the laugh.  It has been a stressful morning.  We* 	all need a good laugh every now and then.   				Robn   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 12:24:26 +0100iU From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <andrew_nospam.harrison_remove_this@sun#.com>o Subject: Re: VMS commitment 0 Message-ID: <ah3k4n$9b2$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   Bob Ceculski wrote:s  s > prune@ZAnkh-Morpork.mv.com (Paul Winalski) wrote in message news:<3d343f04.3252432670@proxy.news.easynews.com>...r > C >>On 15 Jul 2002 15:33:10 -0700, bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)d >>wrote: >> >>   >> > E > true, but in my book they're 99% of it ... anything else is trivial C > in nature ... db's, you got two of the best in RDB and Oracle ...aA > plenty of 3 and 4 gl cpmpilers for programming ... ecommerce is)? > tops w/Apache plus 3 others very reliable web servers at yourhC > disposal and java ... clustering second to none ... the best realeD > time os, best clustering, best ecommerce, gee, what are we missingB > here?  It doesn't get any better than this, as a matter of fact,< > when looking at a replacement for vms, it gets only worse! >     2 Bob you seem stuck in some sort of 80's time warp.  : Since the mid 90's most big corporates have been following= a strategy of moving from developing their own apps to buyingu as much as they can.  @ The rise in fortunes of Seibel, SAP, Oracle applications etc are8 examples of this effect turning up in revenues to ISV's.  A I currently work for one of the largest retailers in the UK, they B are in the process of migrating from an environment that is almost= entirely bespoke, written in a range of languages from PL1 tot? Visual Basic and running on a variety of different platforms toaA an environment that is based on packages running on two platformsm Solaris and Windows 2000.c  F They are doing this because they don't want to be a software developer and they want to save money.  A OpenVMS was never a candidate to host the backend datacenter apps1D because of the 70 or so major apps that are being deployed less thanC 10 are available in any form on OpenVMS and some of these are older-B versions than the ones the customer wants to deploy. Having an old? version of Oracle apps supported on your platform does not help7! you win new Oracle apps business.   C This situation in retail with ISV's providing supply chain, B2C andiD B2B portals, call center, warehouse management, market optimisation,C loyalty, data warehousing, EAI etc is identical to the situation in = the Financial services sector where I worked prior to retail.o  B The bottom line is that relying in on some core platform type appsC such as Oracle plus freeware and what the customer then may developb? on top is a blueprint for eventual extinction as far as OpenVMSs@ is concerned because peoples software deployment strategies have) changed away from what you have to offer.o   Regardsd Andrew Harrisons   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 10:08:03 -0400 ' From: "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@hp.com>e Subject: RE: VMS commitment T Message-ID: <BE56C50EA024184DAF48F0B9A47F5CF40266084F@kaoexc01.americas.cpqcorp.net>  	 Andrew ..i  
 Yada, Yada ..r  A As far as buying all new applications, what world do you live in?s  E Most of the Customers I have talked to have gotten over "the grass is C greener on the other side" type Sales arguments and do not have theeC budgets today for the "lets replace everything with brand new shiny  versions of everything".  H Inevitably, the brand new shiny do-everything suite does not provide allB of the functionality that they want and then the customization fun	 starts ..@  ? There is always going to be a balance between roll-your-own and>( buy-off-the-shelf (with customizations).   But, you know this ..m   :-)r    
 Kerry Main Senior Consultanto Hewlett-Packard Canada! Consulting & Integration Servicesp Voice: 613-592-4660i Fax   : 613-591-4477 Email: Kerry.Main@hp.com     -----Original Message-----' From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancya7 [mailto:andrew_nospam.harrison_remove_this@sun#.com]=20e Sent: July 17, 2002 7:24 AMl To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.ComG Subject: Re: VMS commitmento         Bob Ceculski wrote:e  @ > prune@ZAnkh-Morpork.mv.com (Paul Winalski) wrote in message=207 > news:<3d343f04.3252432670@proxy.news.easynews.com>...l >=20C >>On 15 Jul 2002 15:33:10 -0700, bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)y >>wrote: >> >>   >> >=20H > true, but in my book they're 99% of it ... anything else is trivial in  J > nature ... db's, you got two of the best in RDB and Oracle ... plenty=20H > of 3 and 4 gl cpmpilers for programming ... ecommerce is tops w/Apache  J > plus 3 others very reliable web servers at your disposal and java ...=20J > clustering second to none ... the best real time os, best clustering,=20G > best ecommerce, gee, what are we missing here?  It doesn't get any=20uI > better than this, as a matter of fact, when looking at a replacement=20d > for vms, it gets only worse! >=20    2 Bob you seem stuck in some sort of 80's time warp.  : Since the mid 90's most big corporates have been followingH a strategy of moving from developing their own apps to buying as much as	 they can.a  @ The rise in fortunes of Seibel, SAP, Oracle applications etc are8 examples of this effect turning up in revenues to ISV's.  H I currently work for one of the largest retailers in the UK, they are inD the process of migrating from an environment that is almost entirelyE bespoke, written in a range of languages from PL1 to Visual Basic andLE running on a variety of different platforms to an environment that is D based on packages running on two platforms Solaris and Windows 2000.  F They are doing this because they don't want to be a software developer and they want to save money.  A OpenVMS was never a candidate to host the backend datacenter appsoG because of the 70 or so major apps that are being deployed less than 10o@ are available in any form on OpenVMS and some of these are olderB versions than the ones the customer wants to deploy. Having an oldG version of Oracle apps supported on your platform does not help you wint new Oracle apps business.n  G This situation in retail with ISV's providing supply chain, B2C and B2By@ portals, call center, warehouse management, market optimisation,G loyalty, data warehousing, EAI etc is identical to the situation in theb9 Financial services sector where I worked prior to retail.r  G The bottom line is that relying in on some core platform type apps such H as Oracle plus freeware and what the customer then may develop on top isB a blueprint for eventual extinction as far as OpenVMS is concernedE because peoples software deployment strategies have changed away froma what you have to offer.s   Regardsr Andrew Harrison    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 10:19:54 -0400o# From: "Dan Allen" <dallen@nist.gov>  Subject: RE: VMS commitmentm: Message-ID: <OPEPIPEJGHNICIJKJFEACEPDEOAA.dallen@nist.gov>  E 	In the government we buy COTS solutions, take two years to customizev& 	them to our real needs, repeat cycle.   	Dan   > -----Original Message-----. > From: Main, Kerry [mailto:Kerry.Main@hp.com]) > Sent: Wednesday, July 17, 2002 10:08 AMa > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com  > Subject: RE: VMS commitment- >  >  > Andrew ..1 >  > Yada, Yada ..0 > C > As far as buying all new applications, what world do you live in?r > G > Most of the Customers I have talked to have gotten over "the grass is E > greener on the other side" type Sales arguments and do not have theDE > budgets today for the "lets replace everything with brand new shinye > versions of everything". > J > Inevitably, the brand new shiny do-everything suite does not provide allD > of the functionality that they want and then the customization fun > starts ..6 > A > There is always going to be a balance between roll-your-own ande* > buy-off-the-shelf (with customizations). >  > But, you know this ..o >  > :-)w >  >  > Kerry Main > Senior Consultantp > Hewlett-Packard Canada# > Consulting & Integration Services  > Voice: 613-592-4660f > Fax   : 613-591-4477 > Email: Kerry.Main@hp.com >  >  > -----Original Message-----) > From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancya7 > [mailto:andrew_nospam.harrison_remove_this@sun#.com] - > Sent: July 17, 2002 7:24 AM- > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com  > Subject: Re: VMS commitment4 >  >  >  >  > Bob Ceculski wrote:s > @ > > prune@ZAnkh-Morpork.mv.com (Paul Winalski) wrote in message 9 > > news:<3d343f04.3252432670@proxy.news.easynews.com>...g > > E > >>On 15 Jul 2002 15:33:10 -0700, bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)s
 > >>wrote: > >> > >> >  > >> > > J > > true, but in my book they're 99% of it ... anything else is trivial in > J > > nature ... db's, you got two of the best in RDB and Oracle ... plenty J > > of 3 and 4 gl cpmpilers for programming ... ecommerce is tops w/Apache > J > > plus 3 others very reliable web servers at your disposal and java ... J > > clustering second to none ... the best real time os, best clustering, G > > best ecommerce, gee, what are we missing here?  It doesn't get any 7I > > better than this, as a matter of fact, when looking at a replacement    > > for vms, it gets only worse! > >  >  > 4 > Bob you seem stuck in some sort of 80's time warp. > < > Since the mid 90's most big corporates have been followingJ > a strategy of moving from developing their own apps to buying as much as > they can.s > B > The rise in fortunes of Seibel, SAP, Oracle applications etc are: > examples of this effect turning up in revenues to ISV's. > J > I currently work for one of the largest retailers in the UK, they are inF > the process of migrating from an environment that is almost entirelyG > bespoke, written in a range of languages from PL1 to Visual Basic and]G > running on a variety of different platforms to an environment that isSF > based on packages running on two platforms Solaris and Windows 2000. > H > They are doing this because they don't want to be a software developer > and they want to save money. > C > OpenVMS was never a candidate to host the backend datacenter appslI > because of the 70 or so major apps that are being deployed less than 10eB > are available in any form on OpenVMS and some of these are olderD > versions than the ones the customer wants to deploy. Having an oldI > version of Oracle apps supported on your platform does not help you wine > new Oracle apps business.  > I > This situation in retail with ISV's providing supply chain, B2C and B2BuB > portals, call center, warehouse management, market optimisation,I > loyalty, data warehousing, EAI etc is identical to the situation in thea; > Financial services sector where I worked prior to retail.  > I > The bottom line is that relying in on some core platform type apps suchjJ > as Oracle plus freeware and what the customer then may develop on top isD > a blueprint for eventual extinction as far as OpenVMS is concernedG > because peoples software deployment strategies have changed away from  > what you have to offer.s > 	 > Regards  > Andrew HarrisonM >  >  >  >  >    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 15:29:56 +0100rU From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <andrew_nospam.harrison_remove_this@sun#.com>i Subject: Re: VMS commitmenth0 Message-ID: <ah3v0i$cp8$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   Main, Kerry wrote:   > Andrew ..p >  > Yada, Yada .." >     4 Kerry when are you going to learn, you yada I don't.    C > As far as buying all new applications, what world do you live in?- > G > Most of the Customers I have talked to have gotten over "the grass isoE > greener on the other side" type Sales arguments and do not have thetE > budgets today for the "lets replace everything with brand new shinyt > versions of everything". >     . Your problem is that you don't get out enough.  > You think that SMP scalability is an issue, it is if your only? experience of large SMP systems is GS320's for very obvious and" well documented reasons.  @ You think that clusters are a great tool for solving scalability2 problems, they are if your alternative is a GS320.  > You or your collegues appear to think that its perfectly OK to= configure an unsupported platform (from an ISV standpoint) tos> support that ISV's app, probably because its very difficult to0 get the attention of the ISV to support OpenVMS.  = You think the customers would prefer to make rather than buy,i@ but then you are talking almost exclusively to OpenVMS customers: who basically only have the make option available to them.  = As always you have let your limitted view of the world extend < into the generalisations that you have an awfull tendancy to foist on this group.  ; You know perfectly well that the applications suites, thatse: Seibel, SAP, PeopleSoft, Baan, JDE etc etc now account for= a big chunk of customers ISV costs and that customer spendingo> on their own development has fallen and where "development" isC being done often its actually customisation of the packaged productw they are deploying.p    J > Inevitably, the brand new shiny do-everything suite does not provide allD > of the functionality that they want and then the customization fun > starts ..  >     D Applications suites are hardly the brand new shiny thing, where haveE you been for the last decade, SAP, Apps etc have been eating into theA: budgets that people used to reserve for building their own5 payroll/general ledger etc systems for over 10 years.p    A > There is always going to be a balance between roll-your-own andt* > buy-off-the-shelf (with customizations). >     B Of course there is, but the balance has shifted from predominantlyB make to predominantly buy with customisation. Without the platformF on which to do the customisation SAP for example you are excluded fromD the majority of the market you would like to be able to address with OpenVMS.     > But, you know this ... >      Yes but do you ???   Regardsu Andrew Harrison    ------------------------------   Date: 17 Jul 2002 16:11:16 GMT2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman), Subject: Re: VS4000VLC hardware information.* Message-ID: <ah44v4$9im$1@web1.cup.hp.com>  [ In article <age06g$9ar$2@engnews1.eng.sun.com>, bill.stivers@sun.com (Bill Stivers) writes:p  N :Do there exist any good sites or archives for divining how which serial ports4 :when, and how to get around using a video console?   E   Um, meaning what?  The phrase "get around using" is ambiguous here.sF   Do you want to know how to configure and use DECwindows ("get aroundE   using"), or how to disable the graphics display and use the serial DG   console?  If the former, load DECwindows and -- if it does not start tD   -- follow the troubleshooting instructions in the FAQ.  DECwindowsC   users guide and such is part of the DECwindows documentation, andnE   the FAQ has pointers.  If the latter and you wish to use the serialeB   console, follow the serial console selection details in the FAQ.D   Pinouts and such for common connectors are also in the FAQ, as areB   instructions on how to configure the serial terminal, and as areA   details of the console BREAK signal processing, minimum OpenVMS <   version support pointers, documentation, and other such...  K :...but unfortunately my experience with newer vaxen like these is somewhat  :limited.  )  ?   "New" would be a word I would use with care here. :-)  These  A   VAXstation 4000 VLC series boxes might well be new to you, but .(   the series itself is a decade old now.  7 :Am I missing something I'm going to kick myself for?  s  H   Please review the OpenVMS FAQ, as it contains discussions and pointers#   that might be of interest to you.   G   I'll assume you are familiar with the hobbyist program, but -- if not    -- please see the FAQ.  N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------N       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.com    N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 16:25:55 +0100 ( From: Ade <abirkett@unnecessary.csc.com>! Subject: What are we migrating...s3 Message-ID: <3D358C83.9B5173B0@unnecessary.csc.com>h   All,  ! Thanks for your responses so far.-  E In answer to a couple of postings, basically everything!! The currentr> project includes in-house applications for which the source is? available, ancient applications for which it isn't, from littlebH standalone programs to complete 'environments'. We also have to take 3rdF parties into account as you would imagine, which is always easier said
 than done :-).  G Apologies for sounding rather vague at this point but we are in more ofu a research stage at present.  D If anybody has any experiences in this field, good, bad or downrightH ugly, or has experiences of any services you may have used, feel free toE mail me direct - just remove the unnecessary bit from my stated reply  address.   Regards,   Adee   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 08:21:57 -0700 # From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com>,% Subject: RE: What are we migrating...w9 Message-ID: <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIAEBMFGAA.tom@kednos.com>   = I think what was meant was source languages, libs, links etc.m   >-----Original Message----- 0 >From: Ade [mailto:abirkett@unnecessary.csc.com]' >Sent: Wednesday, July 17, 2002 8:26 AMs >To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com" >Subject: What are we migrating... >n >p >All,y >u" >Thanks for your responses so far. >oF >In answer to a couple of postings, basically everything!! The current? >project includes in-house applications for which the source iso@ >available, ancient applications for which it isn't, from littleI >standalone programs to complete 'environments'. We also have to take 3rdrG >parties into account as you would imagine, which is always easier saidd >than done :-) >tH >Apologies for sounding rather vague at this point but we are in more of >a research stage at present.y >eE >If anybody has any experiences in this field, good, bad or downrightyI >ugly, or has experiences of any services you may have used, feel free toaF >mail me direct - just remove the unnecessary bit from my stated reply	 >address.n >0	 >Regards,b >i >Ade >m >---' >Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.o; >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). A >Version: 6.0.372 / Virus Database: 207 - Release Date: 6/20/2002o >i --- & Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.: Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).@ Version: 6.0.372 / Virus Database: 207 - Release Date: 6/20/2002   ------------------------------   Date: 17 Jul 2002 00:48 CDTi' From: carl@gerg.tamu.edu (Carl Perkins) * Subject: Re: [Hobbyist] User account setup- Message-ID: <17JUL200200482615@gerg.tamu.edu>p  . "Alder" <MUNDDGNTDYTV@spammotel.com> writes... }Username: alder
 }Password:4 }Error activating command interpreter SYS$SYSTEM:DCL } K }Would someone please suggest a way to track down the source of this error?w }Thanks. }  }Alder  B The line after the above probably said: "Insufficient privilege or object protection violation"  ( This would tell you what the problem is.  > What are the protections on SYS$SYSTEM:DCL.EXE? It should have World:RE access.  A While you are at it, you should check the rest as well. Something @ strongly resembling all the .EXE files in SYS$SYSTEM should have W:RE protection.   --- Carl   ------------------------------    Date: 17 Jul 2002 02:06:42 -0700+ From: kor.rinkens@vodafone.nl (Kor Rinkens)t* Subject: Re: [Hobbyist] User account setup= Message-ID: <f6681f0c.0207170106.3a3bd5ce@posting.google.com>   ] "Alder" <MUNDDGNTDYTV@spammotel.com> wrote in message news:<3d348638$1@obsidian.gov.bc.ca>...t > OpenVMS Alpha 7.2 (Hobbyist) > N > Sorry to pester this group with questions that would embarrass a chimpanzee,H > but I'm having difficulty understanding why user account setups are soM > difficult.  Here's a sample record for a user from my SYS$SYSTEM:SYSUAF.DATi > file:g >  > UAF> show alder: > 0 > Username: ALDER                         Owner:N > Account:  USERS                            UIC:    [200,201] ([USERS,ALDER])> > CLI:      DCL                              Tables: DCLTABLES" > Default:  ACCOUNTS:[USERS.ALDER]	 > LGICMD:i > Flags:% > Primary days:   Mon Tue Wed Thu Fri - > Secondary days:                     Sat Sunm > No access restrictionsF > Expiration:            (none)    Pwdminimum:  6   Login Fails:     7@ > Pwdlifetime:         90 00:00    Pwdchange:      (pre-expired) > (pre-expired) @ > Last Login:  8-JUL-2002 08:11 (interactive),            (none) > (non-interactive)a; > Maxjobs:         0  Fillm:       100  Bytlm:        64000 ; > Maxacctjobs:     0  Shrfillm:      0  Pbytlm:           0n; > Maxdetach:       0  BIOlm:       150  JTquota:       4096a; > Prclm:           8  DIOlm:       150  WSdef:         2000g; > Prio:            4  ASTlm:       250  WSquo:         40000; > Queprio:         4  TQElm:        10  WSextent:     16384t; > CPU:        (none)  Enqlm:      2000  Pgflquo:      50000o > Authorized Privileges: >   NETMBX       TMPMBX  > Default Privileges:o >   NETMBX       TMPMBX  > UAF> > 9 > and here's the response to a login attempt by the user:f >  > Username: alder  > Password:e5 > Error activating command interpreter SYS$SYSTEM:DCLa > L > Would someone please suggest a way to track down the source of this error?	 > Thanks.  >  > Alder      Hi t  C Look if there is an file in sys$system:  called dcl.exe this is the,  file that is used when you login   Is your logical correct      $ show log sys$systemkE $ dir sys$system:dcl.exe ! if you see no file then there is somethingn wrongv    
 Regars Kor   ------------------------------    Date: 17 Jul 2002 05:42:27 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)y* Subject: Re: [Hobbyist] User account setup3 Message-ID: <UJf9SePv+5Xk@eisner.encompasserve.org>   W In article <17JUL200200482615@gerg.tamu.edu>, carl@gerg.tamu.edu (Carl Perkins) writes:s0 > "Alder" <MUNDDGNTDYTV@spammotel.com> writes... > }Username: alder > }Password:6 > }Error activating command interpreter SYS$SYSTEM:DCL > } M > }Would someone please suggest a way to track down the source of this error?r
 > }Thanks. > }  > }Alder > D > The line after the above probably said: "Insufficient privilege or > object protection violation"  E No, the line after the above probably was missing.  LOGINOUT.EXE doesa) that a lot, perhaps for security reasons.    ------------------------------    Date: 17 Jul 2002 08:05:59 -0600- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)n* Subject: Re: [Hobbyist] User account setup3 Message-ID: <93XSu7Zc+BKD@eisner.encompasserve.org>y  X In article <3d348638$1@obsidian.gov.bc.ca>, "Alder" <MUNDDGNTDYTV@spammotel.com> writes: >  > Username: alderp > Password:e5 > Error activating command interpreter SYS$SYSTEM:DCL  >       Potentially lots of reasons:-  5    sys$system:dcl.exe missing or improperly protected   H    sys$system:dcl.exe not properly installed (via INSTALL utility during2       normal boot, c.f. sys$manager:vmsimages.dat)  A    insufficient gblpages or gblsections to complete a normal boot   0    dcl defined as a logical name, and incrorrect       sys$system definition altered   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 11:54:03 -0400 ; From: "Brian Tillman" <tillman_brian@notnoone.notnohow.com>R* Subject: Re: [Hobbyist] User account setup$ Message-ID: <3d359341$1@news.si.com>  K Personally, I'd have both the CLI and TABLES values set to nothing.  (I.e.,mI MOD ALDER/CLI=""/CLITAB="").  I'd also place people in a group other thanrI [200,*] (although that's a personal preference; nothing magic about groupl 200).l  @ I'd say the protection on SYS$SYSTEM:DCLTABLES.EXE is incorrect. --A Brian Tillman                   Internet: tillman_brian at si.comeA Smiths Aerospace                          tillman at swdev.si.comi= 3290 Patterson Ave. SE, MS      Addresses modified to preventc< Grand Rapids, MI 49512-1991     SPAM.  Replace "at" with "@"8        This opinion doesn't represent that of my company   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2002.391 ************************