1 INFO-VAX	Thu, 18 Jul 2002	Volume 2002 : Issue 392       Contents:- Re: "Clean" CISC (was Re: McKinley Cometh...) - Re: "Clean" CISC (was Re: McKinley Cometh...) - RE: "Clean" CISC (was Re: McKinley Cometh...) 8 Re: Bios Password reset for DEC3000/400 and/or VS4000/901 Re: Command Procedure to logoff inactive users... 1 Re: Command Procedure to logoff inactive users...  Re: CXX questions  Re: Delete of .bck file  Re: Delete of .bck file + Re: DS10L Feedback - more for the pickin' !  Re: DVD drives on OpenVMS & eXcursions - New windows in task bar!!* Re: eXcursions - New windows in task bar!! Re: ftp W2K->VMS Re: How to kill users  Re: How to kill users  Re: How to kill users ) IBM Posts Sharp Drop in Quarterly Profits 3 Re: Is it possible to write UUDecode/Encode in DCL?  Re: MQSeries3 Re: need help: ODBC driver for rdb on OpenVMS Alpha + Re: Only 20% drop in VMS systems (was: wow) + Re: Only 20% drop in VMS systems (was: wow) 0 Re: OpenVMS mentioned by HP in Itanium 2 article0 RE: OpenVMS mentioned by HP in Itanium 2 article Removing Q-Bus Cards Re: Removing Q-Bus Cards RMU/SHOW USERS question ?  Re: RMU/SHOW USERS question ? P Re: StorageWorks HSG controllers, do you use STEAM agents or the Management ApplP Re: StorageWorks HSG controllers, do you use STEAM agents or the Management ApplP Re: StorageWorks HSG controllers, do you use STEAM agents or the Management Appl TCPIP/UCX Version Information H Re: Tops-10/Tops-20 features not in VMS ?, was: Re: Looking for terminal  Re: VAX to Alpha migration tools  Re: VAX to Alpha migration tools RE: VMS commitment RE: VMS commitment RE: VMS commitment Re: VMS commitment Re: VMS commitment Re: VMS commitment Re: VMS commitment Re: What are we migrating... Re: What are we migrating...! Re: [Hobbyist] User account setup ! Re: [Hobbyist] User account setup ! Re: [Hobbyist] User account setup ! Re: [Hobbyist] User account setup   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2002 10:15:00 +0200 3 From: Terje Mathisen <terje.mathisen@hda.hydro.com> 6 Subject: Re: "Clean" CISC (was Re: McKinley Cometh...)- Message-ID: <3D33D604.DEA843E6@hda.hydro.com>    Dan Pop wrote: > l > In <3D32F396.F7A80FC7@mediasec.de> Jan C. =?iso-8859-1?Q?Vorbr=FCggen?= <jvorbrueggen@mediasec.de> writes:K > >Why should that be the case? If the terminating null is the last byte on L > >a page followed by a page that is set no-access, you will have a problem. > H > But this is not the scenario under discussion.  The question was aboutG > the dangers of implementing strcpy by reading one word at a time, not K > by reading *ahead* words beyond the word containing the terminating null.    Exactly.  H The second failure mode (prefetching further ahead) is handled by having2 specialized non-faulting prefetch load operations.   Terje  --    - <Terje.Mathisen@hda.hydro.com>@ "almost all programming can be viewed as an exercise in caching"   ------------------------------  + Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 21:37:50 +0000 (UTC)  From: david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk6 Subject: Re: "Clean" CISC (was Re: McKinley Cometh...)+ Message-ID: <ah4o3d$aaq$1@aquila.mdx.ac.uk>   a In article <qYv7+aFAh51b@eisner.encompasserve.org>, young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) writes: ` >In article <OF1EFC570D.D75BC19E-ON85256BF7.00686E3C@acml.com>, William_Bochnik@acml.com writes: >>  A >> ah but what was the first digital data transmission vehicle???  >>   > D >	You mean: "was the teleegraph the first digital data transmission 
 >	vehicle???"  > A >	Yes, if the paper recording the dots-dashes is considered "data 9 >	transmission."  The fax machine came seven years later:  > 7 >http://inventors.about.com/library/inventors/blfax.htm  > N >Facsimile transmission over wires or faxing was invented by Alexander Bain, aM >Scottish mechanic who in 1843 recieved a British patent for "improvements in N >producing and regulating electric currents and improvements in timepieces andP >in electric printing and signal telegraphs." Bain had created a fax transmitterP >that was designed to scan a flat surface (made of metal) using a stylus mountedK >on a pendulum. The stylus picked up the images on the surface. Seven years M >earlier Samuel Morse invented the telegraph and the fax machine evolved from  >the telegraph technology.   >  >				Rob    I In that case the previous answer was wrong since punched cards were first ; developed around about 1810 for controlling Jacquard looms. 5 See http://www.cs.uiowa.edu/~jones/cards/history.html   5 Hollerith cards were only a slight variation on this.     B Of course in a broader sense Telegraphy goes back much further see  * http://www.alpcom.it/hamradio/storeng.html  J And if you mean by "Digital Data Transmission" a system in which a limitedJ number of discrete signals are sent to encode a message then most of theseN methods would probably qualify - including sending smoke signals - little puff of smoke, big puff of smoke.      
 David Webb VMS and Unix team leader CCSS Middlesex University  
 David Webb VMS and Unix team leader CCSS Middlesex University   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 14:53:45 -0700 # From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> 6 Subject: RE: "Clean" CISC (was Re: McKinley Cometh...)9 Message-ID: <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIIECKFGAA.tom@kednos.com>    >-----Original Message----- A >From: david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk [mailto:david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk] ' >Sent: Wednesday, July 17, 2002 2:38 PM  >To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com7 >Subject: Re: "Clean" CISC (was Re: McKinley Cometh...)  >  > 4 >In article <qYv7+aFAh51b@eisner.encompasserve.org>,. >young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) writes:@ >>In article <OF1EFC570D.D75BC19E-ON85256BF7.00686E3C@acml.com>,! >William_Bochnik@acml.com writes:  >>> B >>> ah but what was the first digital data transmission vehicle??? >>>  >>D >>	You mean: "was the teleegraph the first digital data transmission >>	vehicle???" >>B >>	Yes, if the paper recording the dots-dashes is considered "data: >>	transmission."  The fax machine came seven years later: >>8 >>http://inventors.about.com/library/inventors/blfax.htm >>= >>Facsimile transmission over wires or faxing was invented by  >Alexander Bain, a= >>Scottish mechanic who in 1843 recieved a British patent for  >"improvements in @ >>producing and regulating electric currents and improvements in >timepieces and A >>in electric printing and signal telegraphs." Bain had created a  >fax transmitterB >>that was designed to scan a flat surface (made of metal) using a >stylus mounted L >>on a pendulum. The stylus picked up the images on the surface. Seven yearsA >>earlier Samuel Morse invented the telegraph and the fax machine 
 >evolved from  >>the telegraph technology.  >>	 >>				Rob  >  > J >In that case the previous answer was wrong since punched cards were first< >developed around about 1810 for controlling Jacquard looms.6 >See http://www.cs.uiowa.edu/~jones/cards/history.html > 6 >Hollerith cards were only a slight variation on this. >  > C >Of course in a broader sense Telegraphy goes back much further see  > + >http://www.alpcom.it/hamradio/storeng.html  > K >And if you mean by "Digital Data Transmission" a system in which a limited K >number of discrete signals are sent to encode a message then most of these C >methods would probably qualify - including sending smoke signals -  >little puff >of smoke, big puff of smoke.   J During the time of the great Persian empire, towers were built at suitable spacing L and fire as a light source was used to send signals, so if some force landed on theK western shores of Turkey the identy and size of force would be known within  24 hours; several thousand miles away, that was about 2500 years ago.  >  >  >  >David Webb  >VMS and Unix team leader  >CCSS  >Middlesex University  >  >David Webb  >VMS and Unix team leader  >CCSS  >Middlesex University  >  >---' >Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. ; >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). A >Version: 6.0.372 / Virus Database: 207 - Release Date: 6/20/2002  >  --- & Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.: Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).@ Version: 6.0.372 / Virus Database: 207 - Release Date: 6/20/2002   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 21:40:31 -0400 ! From: "me" <wicklinedd@erols.com> A Subject: Re: Bios Password reset for DEC3000/400 and/or VS4000/90 + Message-ID: <ah565p$8mb$1@bob.news.rcn.net>   K If I must set a jumper then I will breath a little easier.  I was afraid of E someone setting it and me not knowing how to reset.  We don't set the  workstations to autoboot.    Dave= Hoff Hoffman <hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam> wrote in message $ news:agih9a$ntl$1@web1.cup.hp.com... > I > In article <afvq56$al5$1@bob.news.rcn.net>, "me" <wicklinedd@erols.com>  writes: G > :I have set up to VMS workstation on the above machine.  I everything J > :installed and the BIOS password is not set right now.  But I don't knowB > :the old password in order to change and enable it.  Anybody???? > A >   I would generally discourage the use of the console password.  > J >   On the DEC 3000 model 400 series, there is no password set by default. > K >   To enable, you need to pick a sixteen digit hexadecimal value and enter J >   it identically at each of the two SET PSWD prompts and you must SETENVJ >   SECURE ON, and you need to move a jumper.  (Getting at the jumper willK >   involve access to the motherboard -- with the power supply to the left, J >   the jumper is nearest the rightmost TURBOchannel slot.  It is labeled.G >   With the jumper on left and center posts, the password is disabled. < >   With the jumper on the center and right posts, enabled.) > 9 >   Again, I would discourage using the console password.  > I >   Check the console help for the VAXstation 4000 model 60, the commands H >   should be similar.  (SET PSE 1 or 0, and SET PSWD, or some such.  ToI >   get into the privileged command set once the password is enabled, use H >   the console command LOGIN.)  AFAIK, also sixteen hexadecimal digits.) >   Again, no password is set by default.  > B >   But again, I would discourage the use of the console password. > G >   If you want to learn how to reset the password and clear out all of G >   the settings, I think that's in the hardware service documentation.  >  > ( >  ---------------------------- #include' <rtfaq.h> ----------------------------- L >       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.com, >  --------------------------- pure personal# opinion --------------------------- 1 >    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering  hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com >    ------------------------------   Date: 17 Jul 2002 20:46:47 GMT2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman): Subject: Re: Command Procedure to logoff inactive users...* Message-ID: <ah4l3n$eoo$2@web1.cup.hp.com>   Shiva MahaDeva wrote: G :Is there any way to make a Command Procedure to logoff inactive users?   J   Yes.  You'll get it wrong, though.  Most everybody does.  Why?  Because E   this problem is rather more difficult than it might initially look. H   (And while a DCL implementation is feasible, it would not be my first J   choice here.  Based solely upon the question itself, you are apparently :   not particularly familiar with DCL and DCL programming.)  J   Please see the OpenVMS Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ) for pointers to G   available tools for this task, a task that is known by various names. F   Please see the FAQ section entitled "HOW DO I DELETE (TIMEOUT) IDLE H   PROCESSES?" as a start.  Various of these tools are readily available.    N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------N       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.com    N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------    Date: 17 Jul 2002 17:04:42 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) : Subject: Re: Command Procedure to logoff inactive users...3 Message-ID: <IWPdGro6zVfl@eisner.encompasserve.org>   _ In article <ah4l3n$eoo$2@web1.cup.hp.com>, hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) writes:  >  >  > Shiva MahaDeva wrote: I > :Is there any way to make a Command Procedure to logoff inactive users?  > L >   Yes.  You'll get it wrong, though.  Most everybody does.  Why?  Because G >   this problem is rather more difficult than it might initially look.   8 In particular the "logging off" part is straightforward.  H What is difficult is the matter of deciding what constitutes "inactive".A Despite your best efforts, you will make technical errors in this , decision process and have to keep adjusting.  ? In certain environments you will run into "activity" indicators ? that VMS is incapable of measuring, such as corporate decisions C that processes being run by anyone above the rank of vice president  are never "inactive".    ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 19:31:36 GMT * From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> Subject: Re: CXX questionsB Message-ID: <sCjZ8.131293$iB1.7604626@bin4.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>  ? "Martin Vorlaender" <martin@radiogaga.harz.de> wrote in message 5 news:3d357542.524144494f47414741@radiogaga.harz.de... * > JMK (jeffrey.m.klopotic@lmco.com) wrote:   ...   ) > > So I try the old Stroustrup example..  > >  > > while(*arr1++ = *arr2++);  > > I > > and I still get the same complaint from the compiler about modifiable  > > l-value. > 7 > Now you're trying to increment arr1's value - no way.   J Indeed, since the arrx values are implied const in the example given.  ButL if you created dummy non-const variables datatype *foox from them, shouldn'tL while(*foo1++ = *foo2++);  work (assuming the source array terminates with aC null value)?  I expect that may have been how the example cited was 
 organized.   - bill   ------------------------------   Date: 17 Jul 2002 20:15:22 GMT2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)  Subject: Re: Delete of .bck file* Message-ID: <ah4j8q$e1i$2@web1.cup.hp.com>  ^ In article <3D32F2CA.669CA544@ceris.purdue.edu>, Chuck Aaron <caaron@ceris.purdue.edu> writes:  ( :How do you delete a .bck file off tape?  H   Welcome to the world of linear (or sometimes serpentine :-)  thinking.F   Unlike disk drives, all access to tape media is entirely sequential.G   (Pendants: yes, this sequentialistic representation of tape media is  D   simplistic.)  Position the heads at the location of the file, and F   start writing a new file or write an EOF or...  Anything beyond the E   target file that you wish to preserve must be rewritten, of course. 0   Or you could reinitialize the tape, of course.  H   With DDS (DAT) and DLT media, any data that might be located past the I   (new) EOF marker is entirely inaccessable -- the tape drive just won't  H   let you at the unallocated areas of the tape.  (This is why it is, um,G   difficult and expensive to read any data that might be left after any F   recent-generation tape media is re-initialized, overwritten or -- asC   will happen with this deletion request -- effectively truncated.)     N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------N       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.com    N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2002 00:53:50 GMT 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>   Subject: Re: Delete of .bck file' Message-ID: <3D361606.83FDBFBC@fsi.net>    "Alan E. Feldman" wrote: > b > "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote in message news:<3D34E705.79EDC4AE@fsi.net>... > > "Alan E. Feldman" wrote: > > > ` > > > p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture) wrote in message news:<UcL+w4UD3grp@elias.decus.ch>...f > > > > In article <3D331174.23335CC9@ceris.purdue.edu>, Chuck Aaron <caaron@ceris.purdue.edu> writes:L > > > > > I have five *.bck files on one DLT 40/TAPE. The name of the file IK > > > > > want to delete off the tape is called us15jul02.bck. What command  > > > > > would I use?	 > > > > >CS > > > > You can't. Simple as that. Tapes are serial devices - think about trying to T > > > > delete a TV program from a VCR tape or a music track from an audio cassette. > > >r > > > Why is this hard?e > > >.( > > > 1. Time how long the selection is. > > >s6 > > > 2. Cue the tape to the beginning of the program. > > >o? > > > 3. Set your VCR to line or if audio provide silent input.V > > >sQ > > > 4. Record for the duration of the selection using the time found in step 1.i > >k/ > > That's not "DELETE", that's "COPY/OVERLAY".  > ( > Actually, it's more like DELETE/ERASE.  G Well, no, not really. DELETE implies that resources are released, whichUH is not true in the case, unless you consider that a program shorter than6 the one you just wiped could be recorded in its place.  ! > It would be COPY/OVERLAY if youe& > recorded a new program over the old.  B But, you did! You recorded (undefined video plus) no audio over anG existing program. The technical term is an "assemble edit"; there is notD continuity of the control track from BOT to EOT. If you replaced theH existing frames with video black and replaced the audio track(s) leaving9 the control track intact, that would be an "insert edit".    -- r David J. Dachteral dba DJE SystemsS http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/i   ------------------------------   Date: 17 Jul 2002 19:59:37 GMT2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)4 Subject: Re: DS10L Feedback - more for the pickin' !* Message-ID: <ah4ib9$e1i$1@web1.cup.hp.com>  c In article <3D2B2960.D76EF34A@aaa.com>, Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com> writes:]= :Richard, as far as I can see from the "Golden Eggs" paper onH? :the DS10L, there is *no* built-in SCSI interface. The internal B :disk is either UltraIDE or SCSI using an extrac SCSI interface in :the single PCI slot.u :0B :The external/standard ports on the box are Mouse, Kb, COM1, COM2,F :Parr, RMC (?) and 2*USB. And a SCSI port *if* you have a SCSI card in :the PCI slot.    H   Correct.  IDE is integrated.  SCSI is an add-on, and consumes the PCI J   slot.  (There are multifunction PCI cards, the 3X-DEPVZ-AA provides LVD J   SCSI, 2D graphics, and a 10/100 network connection, available.  But yes,   there is only one PCI slot.)     :Richard Maher wrote:i :> v :> Hi David, :>  K :> I'm pretty sure I want at least one of these, how many do you have left?  :> rO :> Do you have offices in the UK/Europe or is it a credit card thing? (Exchange*% :> rate gettin' better by the day :-)e :> tH :> I can forgo the graphics card but the 1 PCI slot would appear to be aM :> bummer. What is this talk of SCSI cards that others have been discussing?  M :> Do the DS10Ls not come with SCSI connector for an external tape drive? Is v% :> it an external disk storage issue?-    I   The limitation is the form-factor -- the AlphaServer DS10L is a 1U box.mK   There's not much room for expansion available within that 1U form factor.h  I   If you want more PCI slots (eg: 3), you will want the AlphaServer DS10,b7   AlphaStation DS10, or the AlphaStation XP1000 series.b    N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------N       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.com    N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------   Date: 17 Jul 2002 20:39:19 GMT2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)" Subject: Re: DVD drives on OpenVMS* Message-ID: <ah4kln$eoo$1@web1.cup.hp.com>  Z In article <3D2E4278.4020006@uiowa.edu>, "Richard L. Dyson" <rick-dyson@uiowa.edu> writes:K :I've been trying to locate some details on using "PC" style (but SCSI) DVDmI :drives on Alphas running OpenVMS.  I have found a few references to some G :DVD-R and DVD-RAM drivers, but I am just looking for a reader.  If thefM :DVD drive is a SCSI-2 or UltraSCSI drive compatible with the SCSI controllerpH :in my AlphaServers, will VMS recognize it and allow me to read from it?= :Would it be dependent on the OS version?  Would I need v7.3?t :nH :Has anyone else hung DVD drives on any Alphas and if so, what models of. :drive, Alpha and SCSI controller did you use? :tC :This would be a good FAQ entry, if there is a good answer to it!!!j    K   Please look for "DVD" in the index of the existing FAQ, or please search  5   through the (text format) FAQ for the string "DVD".   J   As for other options that will be in the next FAQ edition, Dr. Eberhard H   Heuser-Hofmann now has a DVD tool he's selling.  I expect that you canH   find some details of this at the same web pages referenced in the FAQ.    N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------N       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.com    N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 21:30:30 -0400e' From: "DLWHITE" <dlwhite@optonline.net>O/ Subject: eXcursions - New windows in task bar!!M< Message-ID: <uMoZ8.73814$6r.2392580@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net>   Greetings All!H After searching the globe, I turn to you all! Is there a  way to have an eXcursion window either(7     1. open behind an application window that calls it?F&     2. open minimized on the task bar?  B I thank any and all who have taken the time  to read of my dismay!   Regards5   DLWHITE3   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2002 00:05:34 -0400 1 From: Michael Austin <maustin@firstdbasource.com> 3 Subject: Re: eXcursions - New windows in task bar!!t2 Message-ID: <3D363E8E.97D7F058@firstdbasource.com>   DLWHITE wrote: >  > Greetings All!J > After searching the globe, I turn to you all! Is there a  way to have an > eXcursion window eithero9 >     1. open behind an application window that calls it?s( >     2. open minimized on the task bar? > D > I thank any and all who have taken the time  to read of my dismay! > 	 > Regardsm > 	 > DLWHITE   C I was under the impression that is a function of the Window ManagerpC (DECW or Motif) appplication,  not excursion.  Excursion is just anr X-Windows emulator.i  A If I am going to write something new these days, I just use a webgE interface as it cost less to license Netscape, Motif, IE et. al. thano$ eXcursion and a lot easier to code.  -- l Regards,  6 Michael Austin            OpenVMS User since June 19847 First DBA Source, Inc.    Registered Linux User #261163 7 Sr. Consultant            http://www.firstdbasource.comdE                           http://www.firstdbasource.com/donation.htmlm/ 704-947-1089 (Office)     704-236-4377 (Mobile)t   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 17:29:02 -0400 1 From: Michael Austin <maustin@firstdbasource.com>k Subject: Re: ftp W2K->VMSt2 Message-ID: <3D35E19E.979839AF@firstdbasource.com>   Brian Tillman wrote: > 7 > >Have ASCII file to transfer, but no CR only LF whichs$ > >results in a record size problem, > K > Transfer in ASCII.  Once the file's on the VMS side, use SET FILE to makek@ > the arributes Stream_LF.  The file will behave correctly then.  H I have an application that uses an NFS mounted disk for access to a unixF box.  The file is originally created in [dir-a] and needs to end up inB [dir-b]  so the processing includes a covert/fdl (to Stream_LF) toG "copy" the file to it's shared directory.  This works pretty well.  W2K F does (or should) have an NFS client/server that could be used for thisG as well and is a whole lot easier to use than cobbling together lots of  ftp command scripts.     > L > Alternatively, run it through TECO after it's on the VMS side.  That, too, > should make it behave. > --C > Brian Tillman                   Internet: tillman_brian at si.com C > Smiths Aerospace                          tillman at swdev.si.comh? > 3290 Patterson Ave. SE, MS      Addresses modified to prevent:> > Grand Rapids, MI 49512-1991     SPAM.  Replace "at" with "@": >        This opinion doesn't represent that of my company     --   Regards,  6 Michael Austin            OpenVMS User since June 19847 First DBA Source, Inc.    Registered Linux User #261163m7 Sr. Consultant            http://www.firstdbasource.comiE                           http://www.firstdbasource.com/donation.html / 704-947-1089 (Office)     704-236-4377 (Mobile)k   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 19:16:19 GMTa. From: "Het Kritische Oog" <evdnep@hotmail.com> Subject: Re: How to kill users/ Message-ID: <7ojZ8.847847$yP6.27026468@Flipper>o  B "Tadimeti Keshav" <keshav_tadimeti@yahoo.co.uk> schreef in bericht: news:20020717032922.23395.qmail@web21008.mail.yahoo.com... > Hello all,7 > I would like to kill users who refuse to log out even  > after I notify them. >o > How can I do this? >e > Thanks & regards > Kesav   " 1) reply/all "Appropriate message" 2) disable login 3) stop/id=pid   XXXa   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 21:55:10 +0200 + From: Martin Knoblauch <knobi@knobisoft.de>l Subject: Re: How to kill users5 Message-ID: <ah4i2u$q69h1$1@ID-115181.news.dfncis.de>    Atlant Schmidt wrote:n   > Bob Koehler wrote: > K >>    Normally I don't condone violence, but technically the correct answerh$ >>    is something like "get a gun." > $ > Shoot, why go to all that trouble? > 5 > Just make 'em use Windows; they'll kill themselves.d >   L  that would be a crime against humanity. And then he would be brought befor C the international tribunal. And then the US would be very upset ...l   Martin -- V -------------------------e Martin Knoblauch   ------------------------------   Date: 17 Jul 2002 21:01:36 GMT2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) Subject: Re: How to kill users* Message-ID: <ah4lvg$eoo$3@web1.cup.hp.com>   :Tadimeti Keshav wrote:gL : I would like to kill users who refuse to log out even after I notify them.  G   This is both a technical and a management issue, of course.  Further,hE   there are seldom any good technical solutions to management issues.h   : How can I do this?  G   I would strongly encourage that you read the available OpenVMS system-K   management documentation, as well as the available command documentation.QI   You are clearly managing an OpenVMS system, thus you should be familiarp)   with the commands and the operations.  f  4   The most common command for deleting a process is:       STOP/ID=processid-  G   This may or may not resolve your problem, and deleting a long-running@F   or active process can potentially cause other problems, such as loss$   of state or user data corruptions.  E   If this is a question of terminating idle processes, please see thea4   OpenVMS Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ) document.  C   There are various training courses available, including a system  E   management primer that is available at the OpenVMS website.  PleaselE   see the FAQ for other training pointers and training materials, ande0   for pointers to the OpenVMS documentation set.    N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------N       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.com    N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 20:40:37 GMT # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>c2 Subject: IBM Posts Sharp Drop in Quarterly ProfitsJ Message-ID: <9DkZ8.125255$WJf1.98902@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>  ) IBM Posts Sharp Drop in Quarterly Profitsi Wed Jul 17, 4:11 PM ET  K ARMONK, N.Y. (Reuters) - International Business Machines Corp. on Wednesdayc@ said its profit fell sharply for the fourth quarter in a row, asH corporations worried about their own stagnant bottom lines spent less on technology.e  L IBM, which sells everything from computer software to microchips to computerK services, said it earned 3 cents per share in the second quarter, down fromm $1.15 per share a year earlier.   L The No. 1 computer maker said it earned 84 cents per share excluding charges@ of 81 cents per share to cover job cuts, a reorganization of itsL microelectronics division and for its money-losing hard disk drive business.  J The Armonk, New York-based company, whose results are a bellwether for theD influential technology industry, announced plans to sell most of itsL hard-disk drive assets to Hitachi Ltd. for $2.05 billion at the beginning of June.i  - ---------------------------------------------   - Operating earnings before extraordinary itemsv- 84 cents vs. 1.15 last year, a decline of 27%u   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2002 00:57:36 GMTo1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>"< Subject: Re: Is it possible to write UUDecode/Encode in DCL?' Message-ID: <3D3616E8.5B1DA676@fsi.net>d   "David J. Dachtera" wrote: > [snip]  D Actually, I screwed up. V5.5-2 doesn't have SET FILE/ATTRIBUTES. So,< you'll need to edit DMP2BIN.COM and replace these two lines:  ! $ copy/nolog/noconfirm nla0: &fsp7& $ set file/attr=(rfm=fix,lrl=512) &fsp   ...with this code:   $ create/fdl=sys$input &fspt FILE*         ORGANIZATION            sequential   RECORD#         BLOCK_SPAN              yes $         CARRIAGE_CONTROL        none%         FORMAT                  fixedo#         SIZE                    512  $ EODy  9 Sorry - I haven't looked at V5.5-2 for quite a while now.e   -- g David J. Dachterac dba DJE Systemsc http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/r   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 21:43:39 +0200h/ From: "Marc Van Dyck" <marc.vandyck@brutele.be>- Subject: Re: MQSeries-* Message-ID: <ah4hd1$mk9$1@news.brutele.be>  4 If I remember well the days when I was writing code,. when you need an EF, you call LIB$GET_EF which7 will return to you the number of an EF that is not used.6 by anyone else. Of course, for that method to be safe,2 everyone must use it (and also LIB$FREE_EF to free6 the EF when you don't need it anymore). I suspect your8 application's code doesn't use it, and MQSeries probably: neither. That's a serious breach of the rules explained in the OpenVMS documentation.   Marc  9 "Bill McLaughlin" <mcbill20@hotmail.com> wrote in message 7 news:e9cbc4f2.0207161255.5c07df6b@posting.google.com...F9 > "Jakob Erber" <erberj@yahoo.de_nospam> wrote in messageo( news:<3d3327a6$1@news.swissonline.ch>...
 > > Hello, > >iL > > is there somebody out there, who is using MQSeries from IBM for VMS AXP?? > > I would be glad to hear about expriences with this product.c > >l > > regards  > >  > > Jakob Erbere >oF > We use the MQ client on Alpha VMS systems, with the server hosted onF > AIX systems. Overall, the product is not bad. One thing to watch outG > for that got us is their use of common event flags. Some of our olderlG > software was using common event flag cluster 2 and MQSeries also uses-F > this cluster. Shortly after installing MQSeries and using it in someF > of the code, our software would develop mysterious hangs. After manyF > conversations with IBM, they admitted that they were using cluster 2H > but had not documented it. Once we changed our old code to use clusterE > 3 the problems went away. The only other complaint I have is fairly A > minor one-- just like with Oracle, it's often difficult to findi+ > someone at IBM that is familiar with VMS.s >-
 > Regards, >3 > Bill McLaughlin    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2002 00:04:39 GMTt) From: etkaiser@softhome.net (Evan Kaiser)f< Subject: Re: need help: ODBC driver for rdb on OpenVMS AlphaA Message-ID: <rCnZ8.1232$Kg.1229@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net>l  M Thanks for your responses so far, everyone. I should clear up a few things I A? forgot to mention, or intentionally left out of, my first post.cP I did actually try the Oracle ODBC client for Rdb, but since the server doesn't O have the SQL services installed, it didn't work. I figured something had to be CN done on the server side, but I didn't know what, then sort of forgot about it.O The Alpha system is a client's machine- I didn't mention that before because I oN wanted to keep the post as simple and straightforward as possible while still O being thorough enough to describe the help I needed. To my knowledge there are  N no problems with the OpenVMS box itself, and aside from the fact that I think O its timeout for an inactive telnet session is too short, it runs fine. It just iN runs this one application that is going to be retired, and aside from serving N as a backup in the future for that application data, I doubt they'll be using K it for anything else. To those who have expressed interest in buying it, I aD don't know if they'll want to sell it or keep it around as a backup I indefinitely, nor do I know exactly what kind of hardware the server has.lN Lastly, I have no idea if the client has all the software CDs that would have O come with OpenVMS and Rdb- I got the impression that the machine was part of a  K package from the application vendor, and they may or may not have provided vM those CDs along with it. In any case, it looks like all we need to do is get hL those SQL services installed and running on the VMS system and use Oracle's M ODBC driver as the connection, and that should work- even if they don't have dP the CDs, they still obviously have the appropriate software licenses for the OS L and database software so I'm sure they could obtain the appropriate CDs. If M that doesn't work, we can try doing a file export as Jan-Erik suggested. Oh,   and on that note, he wrote:4  D >You say you have a VMS "expert", well, most VMS experts know enught! >of Rdb to be able to fix this...m  K He has used OpenVMS for a LONG time, but he uses it to support application .M integration interfaces, not databases, so it just so happens that he's never   dealt with Rdb.CD Thanks to everyone who responded again for all your help, it's most  appreciated.   Evan  E In article <we2Z8.17712$Kx3.15152@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net>, o etkaiser@softhome.net says...g >eH >Hi everyone, I'm quite new to the OpenVMS world and need a little help. >Here's the situation.F >We have an OpenVMS Alpha 6.2 server running a proprietary applicationL >which contains what must be a pair of Rdb databases (as rdb shows up in theL >license list and is the only database software on the list). This server isM >going to be retired and we want to simply move those databases to a Windows pL >2000 system running MS SQL Server 2000. The catch is, we need some kind of  ODBCO >server software on the OpenVMS system, and while we do have an OpenVMS expert,>M >he's not familiar with database-related stuff with it. Does anyone know of a>F >good set of software that can provide ODBC connectivity between theseO >systems? If we could get an ODBC connection, we could just directly import thecM >databases into SQL Server with (hopefully) little hassle, and that would be o the M >ideal solution. I know Attunity makes such software, and it looks like CONNX M >does too, so if anyone has opinions about those, I'd be glad to hear them. I0N >found another vendor or two that produces such a connection suite, but theirsM >worked only with OpenVMS Alpha 7.x or newer. It'd be nice if we could find a.O >vendor with some kind of short-term licensing deal since we obviously won't be-K >using it for very long since the Alpha box will be retired, but that's notaN >critical. Any help or suggestions about other vendors would be most welcome.  IfK >you could, please email responses to me at ekaiser@intear.com so I can seeO- >them as soon as possible. Thanks in advance.o >  >Evant >e   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 23:02:47 -0500i& From: jlsue <jlsuexxxz@screaminet.com>4 Subject: Re: Only 20% drop in VMS systems (was: wow)8 Message-ID: <j3fcju89ho53radhr7mc3rili9p8gpvu5m@4ax.com>  F On Wed, 10 Jul 2002 18:05:04 GMT, "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote:  ! >I've in no way asserted that SMPrI >*substitutes* for clustering in terms of availability, just that *withinoL >whatever availability constraints exist* (e.g., that might require at leastI >two clustered systems plus whatever additional systems one might need tosM >keep performance acceptable should one fail) larger individual cluster nodes F >are usually preferable to greater numbers of smaller cluster nodes.    D Well, I have several points of experience that contradict this view.9 There have been quite a few environments where small, VMS"A workstation-based clusters of 15-20 nodes out-performed a single,DD large, SMP-based solution, and did it at a much, much lower cost and higher availability.  ? For example, a VAXstation Model 90, fully configured with 128MB.C memory, FDDI card, and unlimited openvms user licenses could be had-F for less than $50K back in the early 1990s.  And the license units forE layered products was 10 (or 20) units.  This CPU was similar to a VAXiE 4000-610 system with a license rating of 1200 units and costing abouti 8X as much.f  D We'd cluster these together with AlphaServer 3000-800s that 'served'9 the disks to the cluster.  All connected to a gigaswitch.i  D Performance was phenomenal, availability was fantastic, and cost was amazingly low.     \@1 Not speaking for anyone, certainly not DEC/Compaqe- (get rid of the xxxz in my address to e-mail)a   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 22:55:52 -0500o& From: jlsue <jlsuexxxz@screaminet.com>4 Subject: Re: Only 20% drop in VMS systems (was: wow)8 Message-ID: <7pccjucuv5m4lb150kr8c5ves4iot04ntn@4ax.com>  E On Wed, 10 Jul 2002 18:42:40 +0100, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy34 <andrew_nospam.harrison_remove_this@sun#.com> wrote:   >  >u
 >jlsue wrote:r >nH >> On Tue, 09 Jul 2002 19:23:18 +0100, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy7 >> <andrew_nospam.harrison_remove_this@sun#.com> wrote:  >> h >> h >> b >>>1. 4 >>>You need to be specially trained to manage an OPS5 >>>	environment for starters, this might in itself bed2 >>>	a hint to you that managing an OPS cluster has7 >>>	additional skill requirements to a single instance.m >>>  >> oC >> I think you overstate the complexities involved.  Sure, there issF >> additional training, so what?  Every time you get a new version youB >> need some bit of training for the changes/new features as well., >> And it's not as if there are no benefits. >> I >s >s, >Come on you must understand the difference. >t0 >There is an Oracle 8i DBA course or a 9i course; >and then once you have done that if you want to administer B >a OPS or RAC cluster there is a 8i OPS course or a 9i RAC course. >n0 >Its an additional layer that you have to learn.  D Hmm... Don't see how anything I said above contracticts what  you'veD said.  Training is part of the package for any of this, and there isE little-to-no difference whether this training is for new versions, or0F for an add-on that provides more features.  I've been through trainingA in both cases.... most intelligent folks wouldn't have a problem,> imho.a   >l > C >> It's a trade-off.  Many, many customers find the availabilty and E >> scalability features of VMSclustering far outweigh this complexitye# >> that you keep spouting on about.  >> k >  >hB >Get back to the point, Kerrys claim is that from a DBA standpointC >tuning and running a DBMS on a large SMP system is as difficult as 1 >tuning and running a DBMS on a cluster of nodes.  >d= >This is BS and no DBA will support his claim as we all know.l >o  @ As I detail below, very little tuning has ever been needed in myE environments.  SGA sizes were the most common piece that needed to beo@ modified - other than that, it was typically related to keys notE existing where they needed to be.  And OPS did not make that any morev complex.   >o >> E >>>2. 6 >>>Tuning is very different, in addition to the normal5 >>>	tuning issues of data placement etc you also need 5 >>>	to consider partitioning data, something that you 6 >>>	may do on an SMP system but for different reasons. >>>  >> SG >> What?  Well, none of this was true in the VMSclusters I ran that hadPG >> Oracle clustered on them.  Tuning consisted of merely making the SGAoE >> as large as we wanted to reduce real I/O to disk, and there was NOs) >> need whatsoever to partition the data.  >> i >r >LB >Really, so what was your scalability, did the DBMS deliver 2x the9 >thoughput on two nodes when compared with one node ?????c >o> >I have been responsible for OPS clusters on Solaris which are? >based on OPS to provide very high reliability, not scalability:< >no tuning for it but then it wasn't the reason that OPS was >being used. >   F Well, scalability is only one measurement.  To tell the truth, I can'tE recall the scalability on these apps, but I do know that it wasn't an0C issue, or the managers wouldn't have kept supporting it with budget E dollars.  But as I stated earlier, it's all a trade-off between cost, A speed, and reliability.  You can pick any two, but not all three.p   >l >> r >>>3. 5 >>>There are financial penalties for using OPS, which-6 >>>	any administrator in his/hers right mind will need >>>	to consider. >>>a >> KI >> Sure, as well as the financial penalties of increasing the size of the F >> single server when other apps on the same server grow.  I know thisG >> one from experience.  Oracle apps remained constant, other apps werecH >> growing, requiring a server upgrade, which meant over $250K (USD) for) >> Oracle upgrades we really didn't need.u >> k >e >s9 >Nope sorry. Learn your charging model before responding.a >i; >Oracle charge on a per CPU basis, so my 32 CPU server will 9 >cost 32x the price of a single CPU system. Then they add < >OPS on top. So is you have 2 x 16 CPU nodes you get charged1 >the standard 32 CPU charge plus the cost of OPS.J > [snip...]: >G8 >The deal looks even worse when you realise that current: >large GS boxes deliver less throughput per CPU than Sun's: >and in a cluster will not unless we are talking something? >like TPC-C deliver linear or even remotely linear scalability.h >i6 >The best case ratio which is if you don't have volume: >deal and are buying per CPU puts a cluster being used for: >scalability at more than 2x the Oracle licensing costs to8 >get the same throughput. And that ignores the increased >TCO of the clustered option.  >w  @ This isn't all based on facts.  TCO takes many, many things into@ account.  And availability does provide value to most apps.  AndE whether a single GS box delivers less throughput or not (and I do notgD believe this is true in the environments I've work in), if the totalF cost of the hardware to provide equal-or-better throughput is the sameC as the single-server model, then so what?  In the environments I'vet@ worked in , clustering did NOT increase the management costs anyF appreciable amount, and the value of availability certainly outweighed
 that cost.   >r >a >>>4. 8 >>>Your storage requirements are entirely different, you: >>>	now need a shared storage subsystem rather than single >>>	host attach. >>>e >> iE >> Not a problem.  It's completely transparent in my VMSclusters.  InMG >> fact, when these customers see how other servers & clusters work wrt> >> storage, they cringe. >>   >  >o@ >You seem to miss the point again, the best and cheapest storageA >for a datawarehouse is often JBOD drives, the read-ahead caching-" >in a array just gets in the way.   C No, JBOD drives INCREASE the management, tuning, and administration-F costs for systems, and especially for Oracle databases.  An enterpriseC storage configuration (a.la. Cpq/hp EVA subsystems) actually lowersyD this tuning and administration cost because the hardware manages theF stastical load balancing rather than the DBA.  This is a tough one forF DBAs to get past:  Many of the ones I've dealt with have spent so muchF time and effort managing table spaces on spindles that it is difficultF for them to give up.  But it's just not necessary anymore when all I/O( can be spread over hundreds of spindles.  E I've proved this many, many times in different application situationsvC (and not all of these were database/datawarehouse apps).  Even fileoF servers can benefit greatly from the stastical spread of I/O over manyE spindles.  In places where I've implemented this we have been able tocF smooth out all of the disk activity so that users no longer experienceD spikes in activity on individual spindles that cause wide variationsF in response times.  Statistically spreading the I/O over many spindlesC provides highly consistent response time - which in the end is whats users really want.     >If you don't want a HAiB >datawarehouse system and a lot of people don't then clustering toB >get scalability for DW will increase your storage costs, you need+ >dual pathing etc and reduce your choices. -  B Clustering will not provide scalability for all apps.  However, in> many, many application workloads, we can configure the clusterB activity to stastically balance among servers in a sort-of-similarF fashion to the I/O spread used in disk arrays.  I've done it.  Does it@ work for large, long-running batch jobs... well, yes and no.  It depends on lots of things.   >All drives/arrays withinnC >reason can be connected to a single system subsets of this can be  E >connected to clusters. Compaqs own clustered TPC-H number for ES45'sIA >shows this with a relatively complex switch/array infrastructure A >imposed by a need to have connectivity from all the nodes in the  >cluster to all the storage.  E Well, VMSclusters had shared storage with CI technology over 15 yearsfF ago.  This was NOT a "relatively complex switch/array infrastructure".F It may have been pricey, but at the time it was the only game in town,E so it's kind of a cheap shot to call it "costly" when there's nothinge else to compare.  E In contrast, today's shared storage is a SAN environment, and this isRE fairly complex, as well as costly.  However, SANs are not implementedeA for clustering in most cases.  In fact, the predominate SAN-basedcB infrastructure is not implemented in VMS environments, but insteadB Unix (Tru64, HP-UX, Sun, AIX) and Windows.  There are lots of goodE reasons to centralize and allow the sharing of storage resources, and'@ it just happens to be the next step in VMScluster shared storage infrastructure as well.y   >t >. >aI >> Support/Schmupport.  You'd never imagine how many times vendors try to I >> pull that crap.  If problems occur with software, it's a simple mattereH >> to reproduce the problem with only one server running the app... thatE >> shuts the vendor up as far as finger-pointing goes.  Rarely, and I.G >> mean RARELY (as in, never in 17 years) have I had a problem that wasQ >> cluster-specific. >> ? >  > C >Akk, and you are customer facing, you would propose, configure and C >install a platform to host an application that wasn't qualified or  >supported for that platform.s > > >Why would you do something so contrary to your customers best >interests ? > C >I can only assume that your attitude isn't shared either offically 8 >or unofficially by your previous or current management. >l  D You have no idea what kind of solutions I propose to customers.  You@ are taking great liberties with my words to stretch them to this extent.   F There are at least two different ways that I've applied my experience,1 and not all of them are in a consulting capacity.r  F However, not all customers who I deal with today, as a consultant, areD as concerned that each and every thing they do has complete blessingF from a vendor.  As a consultant, it's my job to inform them the limitsE to which they can expect support, and if they choose to go outside of F that environment, then I can help them understand the trade-offs.  And? if they choose to continue unsupported, I can help them developA8 operating disciplines that address their business needs.  E This does not mean that any unsupported option is good.  But one musteF understand the risks and implications before one can determine what isC reasonable, and also fully realize what assuming that risk in-houseb
 really means.r  9 For example, we write many, many scripts to do day-to-day.A administrative functions.  These are "unsupported" by any vendor.dB However, all system administrators do this regularly.  If problemsF crop us, we take the responsibility to support them to the extend that? the issues are not related to bugs in vendor-supplied software.    >nH >> If the vendor's software works in a cluster at all (i.e., they didn't< >> pull some real bone-headed programming mistakes) then anyF >> cluster-related problems are not usually related to their software,
 >> per se. >> n >I >uB >So even the risk of this happening would not stop you proposing aA >cluster without having the vendors apps qualified for a cluster.t  D You have no idea how I develop or make proposals.  Don't jump so farE without knowing what you're talking about.  When I make a proposal oriA recommendation, it includes solutions that I know from first-handl experience.f  B Anyone that would buy a solution without seeing a pilot - and thatA includes any solution where a significant investment is involved,g@ whether it's supported or not - is not worth of their managementE position.  I have seen many "documented" features in vendor-supportedD software that just do not work.l   >lC >Ouch again, interesting though it may explain the relative lack ofiF >interest that ISV's show in OpenVMS if thats the prevailing attitude.  : Yeah, whatever.  Speak about that which you actually know.   > C >Just the sort of think that would tee me off if I was an ISV, someaD >hardware vendor putting forward a "solution" to support my softwareD >that I didn't support and then blaming any issues on my "bone" head
 >programming.n  B Have you ever been responsible for a 24x7 environment?  Your wordsB here make it sound as if you don't live in the real world.  We areF constantly called upon to solve problems with non-supported solutions.  D What is implemented is very dependent on the environment, the risks,, the opportunity costs, and the return value.  1 Not speaking for anyone, certainly not DEC/Compaqp- (get rid of the xxxz in my address to e-mail)x   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2002 01:04:48 GMT.1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>w9 Subject: Re: OpenVMS mentioned by HP in Itanium 2 articlea' Message-ID: <3D361899.1EEB1367@fsi.net>p   Kenneth Farmer wrote:w > 3 > CW360: Software that will run on 64-bit Itanium 2b > ; > http://www.openvms.org/stories.php?story=02/07/17/9249546   . The full article seems to be subscribers only.   --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systemso http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/r   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 18:16:07 -0700># From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com>l9 Subject: RE: OpenVMS mentioned by HP in Itanium 2 articlef9 Message-ID: <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIMEIOFGAA.tom@kednos.com>s  J The article references a letter, which referes to OpenVMS 7.2, surely that
 is a typo?   OpenVMS.org Site Newsf   2002 Worldwide HP OpenVMS Study L HP is looking for current customers to participate in a study. Contact MarieF Lanzillo, mariel@mgtinsight.com, Project Manager at Management InsightE Technologies for more information. Read more in this letter from Rich I Marcello, Vice President and General Manager, Alpha Systems Division, HP.    hp Presentations on Itanium 2 : - hp's Itanium 2-based solutions Launch (2.5M, ppt) (html)B - hp's Itanium 2 Performance Presentation v1.5 (255K, .ppt) (html)       Recent Industry News       2002 Worldwide HP OpenVMS Studya  C Posted by Kenneth Farmer (Wednesday July 10 2002 @ 01:11PM EDT) [ ]l       From: hpAlphaSystems@hp.comc   [mailto:hpAlphaSystems@hp.com]' Sent: Wednesday, July 10, 2002 11:28 AMt( Subject: 2002 Worldwide HP OpenVMS Study  * Dear OpenVMS(tm) AlphaServer(tm) Customer,  B I am pleased to communicate that the new HP will continue with theB previously committed OpenVMS and Alpha roadmaps which includes theL availability of EV7 technology later this year and OpenVMS V7.2 on Alpha, asG well as the OpenVMS port to the Itanium processor family which is wellt	 underway.r  H As we move forward, we seek your feedback to understand your objectives,J strategy, specific requirements and preferred timeframe for the transitionD to the Itanium processor family. To accomplish this, I invite you toJ participate in the 2002 Worldwide HP OpenVMS Study that is being conducted? on our behalf by Management Insight Technologies of Framingham,v: Massachusetts, USA, an IT research and consulting company.   This study is designed to:F - understand your current experience with OpenVMS AlphaServer systems;J - understand your familiarity with the Itanium processor family transition strategy and plans;a> - ascertain your company's current thinking on the transition;J - develop a case study of a major application that you would transition to, OpenVMS on the Itanium processor family; andL - elicit your advice on how to make the transition as positive an experience as possible for your company.   G Marie Lanzillo ( mariel@mgtinsight.com ), Project Manager at ManagementaL Insight Technologies, will contact you via email with more information about participating in the study.   K I would like to emphasize that we understand the desired time frame for thesI transition to the Itanium processor family will vary among our customers,cJ and span a number of years. The results of this study will be instrumentalI in assisting us to more effectively plan a smooth transition from OpenVMSrI AlphaServer systems to the Itanium processor family when you are ready. It, encourage and appreciate your participation.   Regards,  
 Rich Marcello " Vice President and General Manager Alpha Systems Division Hewlett-Packard Companym   >-----Original Message----- 7 >From: David J. Dachtera [mailto:djesys.nospam@fsi.net]0' >Sent: Wednesday, July 17, 2002 6:05 PMC >To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com: >Subject: Re: OpenVMS mentioned by HP in Itanium 2 article >1 >  >Kenneth Farmer wrote: >>4 >> CW360: Software that will run on 64-bit Itanium 2 >>< >> http://www.openvms.org/stories.php?story=02/07/17/9249546 >u/ >The full article seems to be subscribers only.s >l >--t >David J. Dachtera >dba DJE Systems >http://www.djesys.com/n >v) >Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page:g  >http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/ >v >---' >Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.e; >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).r@ >Version: 6.0.373 / Virus Database: 208 - Release Date: 7/1/2002 >e --- & Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.: Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).? Version: 6.0.373 / Virus Database: 208 - Release Date: 7/1/2002    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2002 03:14:24 GMT / From: "Richard L. Dyson" <rick-dyson@uiowa.edu>c Subject: Removing Q-Bus Cardsn( Message-ID: <3D36329D.1030803@uiowa.edu>  K I am not very good with old VAX hardware, especially Q-Bus era machines andnI all the CSR Vectoring, etc.  So, I will just toss out this question and Ii1 am sorry if it is in the FAQ (I did look first!).'  K If I have an unused board in a VAXServer 4000-300 running VMS v5.5-2 in onesH of the Q-Bus slots and I want to remove it for other uses, can I just doJ this without any modifications to the VAX configurations?  The board is inL the "middle" with boards to it's left and right (though not in the immediate left slot).   > I am focusing on an old CMXY-8 serial port board at this time.   How about it VAX guys?   Rick -- TJ Richard L. Dyson                                      rick-dyson@uiowa.eduK   _   _  _____                      http://www-pi.physics.uiowa.edu/~dyson/sJ | | | ||_   _|  Senior Systems Analyst   --   INFORMM-Cerner Systems Group< | | | |  | |    The University of Iowa Hospitals and ClinicsJ | \_/ | _| |_   Information Systems Dept. BT1000 GH   Office: 319/384-7016K   \___/ |_____|  Iowa City, IA 52242-1052                 FAX: 319/384-7020eE                  (Consulting to the Physics and Astronomy Department)t   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2002 04:14:38 GMTs- From: "John E. Malmberg" <wb8tyw@qsl.network>w! Subject: Re: Removing Q-Bus Cardsa* Message-ID: <3D363C55.1020902@qsl.network>   Richard L. Dyson wrote: M > I am not very good with old VAX hardware, especially Q-Bus era machines andsK > all the CSR Vectoring, etc.  So, I will just toss out this question and Iw3 > am sorry if it is in the FAQ (I did look first!).o  7 There is something on it in the Ask The Wizard section.   M > If I have an unused board in a VAXServer 4000-300 running VMS v5.5-2 in onepJ > of the Q-Bus slots and I want to remove it for other uses, can I just do; > this without any modifications to the VAX configurations?c  1 Only for some boards under special circumstances.,  V >  The board is in the "middle" with boards to it's left and right (though not in the  > immediate left slot).a  D That may not have anything to do with it.  But you can not have any  blank slots between boards.o  @ > I am focusing on an old CMXY-8 serial port board at this time.  H That is one that is likely to require you to change the settings on all  of the boards. > How about it VAX guys?  C I would recommend a search on google for comp.os.vms, hoffman, and h serpentine.e  H You should first use the $MCR SYSGEN SHOW/CONFIGURATION to see what you  currently have.r  F Then you can use either the console CONFIGURE routine, or $MCR SYSGEN F CONFIGURE to get the CSRs and Vectors for the new configuration.  You 9 need to give the CONFIGURE program all the Q-BUS widgets.d   -John  wb8tyw@qsl.network Personal Opinion Onlyd   ------------------------------  + Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 11:12:51 -0700 (PDT)r. From: Fabio Cardoso <fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br>" Subject: RMU/SHOW USERS question ?@ Message-ID: <20020717181251.70595.qmail@web20207.mail.yahoo.com>  	 Dear Sirst  ' When I enter the RMU/SHOW USERS commanda$ the processes come with an aditional' number besides the PID. In the example t$ below: from HELP RMU, there is a pid 2D205102:1 l   What is this ":1" ???g   Regards       (            $ RMU/SHOW USERS MF_PERSONNEL  5            Oracle Rdb V7.0-0 on node TEST  8-JUL-1996u 14:54:07.41o$            - monitor log filename is% "DISK3:[RDMMON_LOGS]RDMMON70.LOG;219"y/            - 255 monitor buffers available (256g maximum)1            database DISK4:[RDB]MF_PERSONNEL.RDB;1o5                - First opened  8-JUL-1996 14:53:55.37 0            - current after-image journal file is DISK1:[AIJ]AIJ_TWO.AIJ;5#            - 1 active database usere/            - 2D205102:1 - _RTA5: - non-utility,  KROCHMAL - active user9                - image $111$DUA501:[SQL_7000]SQL$70.EXE;1l   =====  ========================== Fbio dos Santos Cardoso OpenVMS System Manager Rio de Janeiro - Brazilt fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br ==========================  2 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!?, Yahoo! Autos - Get free new car price quotes http://autos.yahoo.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 14:45:55 -0400a1 From: Michael Austin <maustin@firstdbasource.com>o& Subject: Re: RMU/SHOW USERS question ?2 Message-ID: <3D35BB63.74EF4EB9@firstdbasource.com>   Fabio Cardoso wrote: >  > Dear Sirs  > ) > When I enter the RMU/SHOW USERS command & > the processes come with an aditional( > number besides the PID. In the example& > below: from HELP RMU, there is a pid > 2D205102:1 >  > What is this ":1" ???  > 	 > Regardst > * >            $ RMU/SHOW USERS MF_PERSONNEL > 7 >            Oracle Rdb V7.0-0 on node TEST  8-JUL-1996d
 > 14:54:07.41 & >            - monitor log filename is' > "DISK3:[RDMMON_LOGS]RDMMON70.LOG;219"e1 >            - 255 monitor buffers available (256n
 > maximum)3 >            database DISK4:[RDB]MF_PERSONNEL.RDB;1r7 >                - First opened  8-JUL-1996 14:53:55.37 2 >            - current after-image journal file is > DISK1:[AIJ]AIJ_TWO.AIJ;5% >            - 1 active database users1 >            - 2D205102:1 - _RTA5: - non-utility,  > KROCHMAL - active user; >                - image $111$DUA501:[SQL_7000]SQL$70.EXE;1  >  > =====n > ========================== > Fbio dos Santos Cardoso > OpenVMS System Manager > Rio de Janeiro - Brazill > fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br > ========================== > 4 > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!?. > Yahoo! Autos - Get free new car price quotes > http://autos.yahoo.com  G Some processes have multiple attaches to the database ie READ_ONLY  andtE READ_WRITE. The :1 :2 etc... will be the 1st, second... connection ton
 the database.h --   Regards,  6 Michael Austin            OpenVMS User since June 19847 First DBA Source, Inc.    Registered Linux User #261163 7 Sr. Consultant            http://www.firstdbasource.comiE                           http://www.firstdbasource.com/donation.htmlt/ 704-947-1089 (Office)     704-236-4377 (Mobile)o   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 18:08:28 GMTwE From: W.E. Peccant <wepeccant-CUT-THIS-OUT-@hotmail-AND-THIS-TOO.com> Y Subject: Re: StorageWorks HSG controllers, do you use STEAM agents or the Management Appln8 Message-ID: <dvbbjucgpqolc1vapq5clfa30q83f6i2a8@4ax.com>  @ I had a hard time finding any information on STEAM agents in the" storage area of Compaq's web site.  < Charles mentioned the Element Manager for HSG80 on SWMA, and= everything I read at the web site points to that as being thet3 recommended way of managing the HSG80's these days.t  7 BTW, thanks for the input Charles... I'm a CLI guy too!n   Bill    D On 17 Jul 2002 06:00:29 -0700, jpdiscover@hotmail.com (disco) wrote:  E >What would lead you to believe that the STEAM agent is not supportedl
 >any more?   >W.E. Peccant <wepeccant-CUT-THIS-OUT-@hotmail-AND-THIS-TOO.com> wrote in message news:<sms9ju8h1dkutk5hjgur0s48ibpr5ht8vq@4ax.com>...  $ >> Are STEAM agents still supported? >>     ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 21:24:49 +0200a/ From: "Marc Van Dyck" <marc.vandyck@brutele.be>rY Subject: Re: StorageWorks HSG controllers, do you use STEAM agents or the Management Applr* Message-ID: <ah4g9n$lvm$1@news.brutele.be>  ? For all what we have tried, the simplest and most efficient wayr> to control, configure and monitor an HSZ/HSG is still the good@ old serial console, connected to a terminal server and monitored by Console Manager.o  7 The new HSV, however, won't have a console line anymoreh; (a very bad decision if you ask me) so SWMA will be a must.    Marc.h  E "Charles Morrall" <charles.morrall@nospam.telia.com> wrote in messagee/ news:fwbZ8.47760$n4.11737419@newsc.telia.net...tC > > I'm curious to know the positives and the negatives of managing.G > > StorageWorks HSG80 controllers with the Compaq, now HPQ, Managementp& > > Appliance instead of STEAM agents. > > % > > Are STEAM agents still supported?n > >u > > Have you switched? > >  >iK > I haven't used Steam agents for a long time. I tend to configure an HSG80dH > the old-fashioned way via direct CLI. As for error reporting, the SWMAJ > (SANWorks Management Appliance) is almost a must have. You can configure itF > to send pager or mail on error, or to forward SNMP traps to whatever+ > management tools you use in your network. J > The SWMA is the base for several applications, the HSG80 Element ManagerI > being one of them. Others incluse Enterprise Volume Manager, Allocationw > Reporter, Network View.p
 > /charles >o >l   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2002 01:09:53 GMTo1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>nY Subject: Re: StorageWorks HSG controllers, do you use STEAM agents or the Management Appl,' Message-ID: <3D3619CB.B6C13B37@fsi.net>o   Marc Van Dyck wrote: > A > For all what we have tried, the simplest and most efficient wayc@ > to control, configure and monitor an HSZ/HSG is still the goodB > old serial console, connected to a terminal server and monitored > by Console Manager.n > 9 > The new HSV, however, won't have a console line anymore = > (a very bad decision if you ask me) so SWMA will be a must.o   No serial console???!!!s   HP: ARE YOU HIGH???!!!  , WHAT THE HELL ARE THESE PEOPLE SMOKING???!!!   ...and where can I get some?  E One thing's for sure - they won't be selling as many of those as theye# could if they hadn't screwed it up!    -- , David J. Dachterat dba DJE Systemsg http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/u   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2002 14:29:43 +1000e* From: "Dale King" <dalek@forpresident.com>& Subject: TCPIP/UCX Version Information4 Message-ID: <ah5g7o$9sp$1@gossamer.itmel.bhp.com.au>  M Can anyone please provide any clues as to where the tcpip/ucx version and ECOu9 level in the output of "$ucx show version" may come from?o   Tia, Dale   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 14:09:33 -0500n$ From: "Art Beane" <beane@petris.com>Q Subject: Re: Tops-10/Tops-20 features not in VMS ?, was: Re: Looking for terminalp7 Message-ID: <004601c22dc5$7c1e1a30$342810ac@petris.com>o  , This is a multi-part message in MIME format.  + ------=_NextPart_000_0047_01C22D9B.93481230n Content-Type: text/plain;o 	charset="us-ascii"  Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit    Date: 17 Jul 2002 08:27:44 GMT, From: rpw3@rigden.engr.sgi.com (Rob Warnock)H Subject: Re: Tops-10/Tops-20 features not in VMS ?, was: Re: Looking for terminal. Message-ID: <ah39q0$9aipg$1@fido.engr.sgi.com> <snip>= The idea is *ancient*, especially if you consider the REPL oft; a Lisp Machine to be a "command line" [it is, really]. See:a </snip>o   Do not forget DWIM.   ? (reference: http://onlinedictionary.datasegment.com/word/DWIM/)a    	 Art Beaned Petris Technology, Inc.u 1900 St. James Place, Suite 700a Houston, TX 77056a Phone: 713-403-8423s Fax: 713-956-2185e http://www.petris.coma    + ------=_NextPart_000_0047_01C22D9B.93481230n Content-Type: text/html; 	charset="us-ascii"n+ Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printabley  1 <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">u <HTML> <HEAD>9 <META HTTP-EQUIV=3D"Content-Type" CONTENT=3D"text/html; =k charset=3Dus-ascii">@ <META NAME=3D"Generator" CONTENT=3D"MS Exchange Server version = 6.0.4630.0">H <TITLE>Re: Tops-10/Tops-20 features not in VMS ?, was: Re: Looking for = terminal</TITLE> </HEAD>u <BODY>' <!-- Converted from text/rtf format -->d  C <P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier New">Date: 17 Jul 2002 08:27:44 = 
 GMT</FONT>  H <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier New">From: rpw3@rigden.engr.sgi.com = (Rob Warnock)</FONT>  F <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier New">Subject: Re: Tops-10/Tops-20 =; features not in VMS ?, was: Re: Looking for terminal</FONT>s  5 <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier New">Message-ID: =p/ &lt;ah39q0$9aipg$1@fido.engr.sgi.com&gt;</FONT>M  ; <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier New">&lt;snip&gt;</FONT>-  @ <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier New">The idea is *ancient*, =- especially if you consider the REPL of</FONT>V  @ <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier New">a Lisp Machine to be a =5 &quot;command line&quot; [it is, really]. See:</FONT>c  < <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier New">&lt;/snip&gt;</FONT> </P>  A <P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier New">Do not forget DWIM.</FONT>k </P>  > <P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier New">(reference: </FONT><A =F HREF=3D"http://onlinedictionary.datasegment.com/word/DWIM/"><U><FONT =, COLOR=3D"#0000FF" SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier =J New">http://onlinedictionary.datasegment.com/word/DWIM/</FONT></U></A><FO=) NT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier New">)</FONT>  </P> <BR>  F <P><B><I><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Art Beane</FONT></I></B><I></I>  ? <BR><I><FONT COLOR=3D"#008000" SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Petris =I Technology, Inc.</FONT></I>d  H <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">1900 St. James Place, Suite 700</FONT>  : <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Houston, TX 77056</FONT>  < <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Phone: 713-403-8423</FONT>  : <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Fax: 713-956-2185</FONT>  B <BR><A HREF=3D"http://www.petris.com"><U><FONT COLOR=3D"#0000FF" =< SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">http://www.petris.com</FONT></U></A> </P>   </BODY>  </HTML>l- ------=_NextPart_000_0047_01C22D9B.93481230--t   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 22:50:07 -0400n. From: "David Pikcilingis" <piks@speakeasy.net>) Subject: Re: VAX to Alpha migration toolsc/ Message-ID: <ujcb891qack29f@corp.supernews.com>f  # Glad I could help lighten the load!   ; We see a lot of customers who are moving in that direction.iG We try our best to give them the tools and user interface they know andu love.   A And then there are those migrating from OpenVMS to Windows.......o   Davidh Boston Business Computingn
 www.bosbc.comd  8 "Rob Young" <young_r@encompasserve.org> wrote in message- news:g8gemFNcStsr@eisner.encompasserve.org...SE > In article <ujb42ch7hu3i89@corp.supernews.com>, "David Pikcilingis"r <piks@speakeasy.net> writes: >p. > > If you are migrating from OpenVMS to Tru64 > = > Thanks for the laugh.  It has been a stressful morning.  Weo+ > all need a good laugh every now and then.e >a > Robo >s   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2002 00:46:00 -0400i( From: David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>) Subject: Re: VAX to Alpha migration toolst, Message-ID: <3D364808.2090605@tsoft-inc.com>   Jan-Erik Sderholm wrote:y   > Compilers, LINK, COPY, ... > * > Goto http://www.openvms.compaq.com:8000/! > and search the page for "migr".a >  > Jan-Erik Sderholm >  > Ade wrote: >  >>Hi,t >>F >>I need a list of available tools for the said job. I know about VESTE >>(DEC-Migrate), are there any others or can someone point me at some A >>relevant services (HP or otherwise). All information gratefullyr >>recieved.o >> >>Adem >>    P Whenever possible, re-compiling and linking the applications is the best method Q to move to Alpha.  Avoid VEST if you can.  If you VEST an application, then when iO modifications are required, you'll need to do them on a VAX, then re-VEST them.h    As for services, help, and such,  . *** WARNING, SHAMELESS PLUG ABOUT TO OCCUR ***   www.tsoft-inc.com    Dave   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 19:20:42 GMTe. From: peter@langstoeger.at (Peter LANGSTOEGER) Subject: RE: VMS commitmentt2 Message-ID: <esjZ8.8024$123.378557@news.chello.at>  ` In article <OPEPIPEJGHNICIJKJFEACEPDEOAA.dallen@nist.gov>, "Dan Allen" <dallen@nist.gov> writes:E >In the government we buy COTS solutions, take two years to customize & >them to our real needs, repeat cycle.  
 What's COTS ?m  I btw In german you could pronounce it KOTZ (which means let your breakfast/G come back through your head ;-) It reminds me of this, but I doubt thate this was meant.-   -- g Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGERs% Network and OpenVMS system specialistm E-mail  peter@langstoeger.atP A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm looking for (a) Network _and_ VMS Job(s)   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 13:27:12 -0600y% From: Dan O'Reilly <dano@process.com>R Subject: RE: VMS commitment-B Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020717132637.00ae78c0@raptor.psccos.com>  / At 01:20 PM 7/17/2002, Peter LANGSTOEGER wrote:hH >In article <OPEPIPEJGHNICIJKJFEACEPDEOAA.dallen@nist.gov>, "Dan Allen"  ><dallen@nist.gov> writes:G > >In the government we buy COTS solutions, take two years to customizeu( > >them to our real needs, repeat cycle. >a >What's COTS ?  C "Commercial Off-The-Shelf".  In other words, bought, not developed.    ------J +-------------------------------+----------------------------------------+J | Dan O'Reilly                  |  "Outside a dog, a book is man's best  |J | Principal Engineer            |   friend.  Inside a dog, it's too dark |J | Process Software              |   to read."                            |J | http://www.process.com        |                     -- Groucho Marx    |J +-------------------------------+----------------------------------------+   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 15:28:31 -0400|* From: WILLIAM WEBB <WWEBB1@email.usps.gov> Subject: RE: VMS commitment - Message-ID: <0033000072916335000002L052*@MHS>   
 =0ACommercial2 Off  The  Shelf    WWWebb   -----Original Message-----/ From: Info-VAX-Request@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNET & Sent: Wednesday, July 17, 2002 3:22 PMB To: Webb, William W Raleigh, NC; Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNET Subject: RE: VMS commitment3    F In article <OPEPIPEJGHNICIJKJFEACEPDEOAA.dallen@nist.gov>, "Dan Allen"H <dallen@nist.gov> writes: >In the government we buy COTS solutions, tak= e twor years to customize& >them to our real needs, repeat cycle.  
 What's COTS ?   H btw In german you could pronounce it KOTZ (which means let your breakfa= stH come back through your head ;-) It reminds me of this, but I doubt that=   this was meant.p   -- Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER % Network and OpenVMS system specialist  E-mail  peter@langstoeger.atH A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm looking for (a) Network _and_ V=
 MS Job(s)=   ------------------------------    Date: 17 Jul 2002 13:23:21 -0700( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski) Subject: Re: VMS commitmentn= Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0207171223.48cb64d0@posting.google.com>e   Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <andrew_nospam.harrison_remove_this@sun#.com> wrote in message news:<ah3k4n$9b2$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>...t > Bob Ceculski wrote:a > u > > prune@ZAnkh-Morpork.mv.com (Paul Winalski) wrote in message news:<3d343f04.3252432670@proxy.news.easynews.com>...  > > E > >>On 15 Jul 2002 15:33:10 -0700, bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)l
 > >>wrote: > >> > G > > true, but in my book they're 99% of it ... anything else is trivialoE > > in nature ... db's, you got two of the best in RDB and Oracle ...eC > > plenty of 3 and 4 gl cpmpilers for programming ... ecommerce isnA > > tops w/Apache plus 3 others very reliable web servers at your E > > disposal and java ... clustering second to none ... the best realoF > > time os, best clustering, best ecommerce, gee, what are we missingD > > here?  It doesn't get any better than this, as a matter of fact,> > > when looking at a replacement for vms, it gets only worse! > >  i4 > Bob you seem stuck in some sort of 80's time warp. > < > Since the mid 90's most big corporates have been following? > a strategy of moving from developing their own apps to buying  > as much as they can. > B > The rise in fortunes of Seibel, SAP, Oracle applications etc are: > examples of this effect turning up in revenues to ISV's. > C > I currently work for one of the largest retailers in the UK, they D > are in the process of migrating from an environment that is almost? > entirely bespoke, written in a range of languages from PL1 tosA > Visual Basic and running on a variety of different platforms to C > an environment that is based on packages running on two platformsr > Solaris and Windows 2000.$ > H > They are doing this because they don't want to be a software developer > and they want to save money. > E > This situation in retail with ISV's providing supply chain, B2C and=F > B2B portals, call center, warehouse management, market optimisation,E > loyalty, data warehousing, EAI etc is identical to the situation iny? > the Financial services sector where I worked prior to retail.0 > D > The bottom line is that relying in on some core platform type appsE > such as Oracle plus freeware and what the customer then may developrA > on top is a blueprint for eventual extinction as far as OpenVMShB > is concerned because peoples software deployment strategies have+ > changed away from what you have to offer.e > 	 > Regards: > Andrew Harrisonr  B and many are slowly finding out the hard way that a canned package@ has no flexibility, and when ever you want a single line of code@ modified for your environment, it costs $5000 ... not only is it? cheaper to maintain your own code in house, it also gives you a0< competitive advantage over your competitors ... I can make a? modification in minutes where a request to some canned resellerr< could take months to test and implement, and it isn't cheap!= And what if that canned software package goes under, then youA> have migration after migration after migration to other canned= packages that most likely don't fit your business needs 100%.sB Our DIBOL code can go to any platform we choose, VMS, Unix, Linux,A Windoze, but as long as VMS is around, why deviate from the best?o? Looks like 1980's methodology is slowly coming back ... genericn@ software is expensive and conforming and those who have deviated? are learning a hard, expensive lesson ... as far as ecommmerce,!B VMS can do it all, we are proving that right now ... sorry Mr Fud!> I would rather bank my business on my own portable tailored to@ my business code than some cookie cutter package that may not beC around next week ... the last time I looked at Siebels stock price,  it looked quite shakey to me!9   ------------------------------    Date: 17 Jul 2002 15:23:44 -0700( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski) Subject: Re: VMS commitment = Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0207171423.6a24725e@posting.google.com>(   Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <andrew_nospam.harrison_remove_this@sun#.com> wrote in message news:<ah3v0i$cp8$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>...H > Main, Kerry wrote: SE > > As far as buying all new applications, what world do you live in?  > > I > > Most of the Customers I have talked to have gotten over "the grass isaG > > greener on the other side" type Sales arguments and do not have theeG > > budgets today for the "lets replace everything with brand new shinya > > versions of everything". > >  > = > You know perfectly well that the applications suites, thats < > Seibel, SAP, PeopleSoft, Baan, JDE etc etc now account for? > a big chunk of customers ISV costs and that customer spending2@ > on their own development has fallen and where "development" isE > being done often its actually customisation of the packaged productr > they are deploying.p > 	 > Regards- > Andrew HarrisonI  8 an application is only as good as the os it runs on ... 
 Bob's rule #2m   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 23:18:30 GMT-( From: "Jay E. Morris" <jem@epsilon3.com> Subject: Re: VMS commitmenty9 Message-ID: <aXmZ8.35087$88.673636@twister.austin.rr.com>S  ? On 17-Jul-2002, peter@langstoeger.at (Peter LANGSTOEGER) wrote:s  H > In article <OPEPIPEJGHNICIJKJFEACEPDEOAA.dallen@nist.gov>, "Dan Allen" > <dallen@nist.gov> writes:rG > >In the government we buy COTS solutions, take two years to customizei( > >them to our real needs, repeat cycle. >d > What's COTS ?n >eK > btw In german you could pronounce it KOTZ (which means let your breakfastrI > come back through your head ;-) It reminds me of this, but I doubt thats > this was meant.m  G Commercial Off The Shelf software.  But Dan mis-worded it.  We take twowK years trying to customize them to our real need, decide that it ain't nevermK gonna work, repeat cycle.  Except of course for M (,MUMPS, DSM, OpenM, etc,m pick your name) on OpenVMS.f  
 Jay E. Morris  Epidemiological Laboratory Brooks AFB, TX   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2002 00:38:04 -0400 ( From: David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> Subject: Re: VMS commitmenti, Message-ID: <3D36462C.9020604@tsoft-inc.com>  ( Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy wrote:    < > Since the mid 90's most big corporates have been following? > a strategy of moving from developing their own apps to buyinge > as much as they can. > B > The rise in fortunes of Seibel, SAP, Oracle applications etc are: > examples of this effect turning up in revenues to ISV's.    Q First, not all application packages are the same.  Some are rather rigid, saying -O that "you WILL run your business in this manner".  Others try to allow as much yN flexibility as possible.  Both scenarios have problems, and yes, they do work  for some companies.e  I If you're running a business where you and everyone else in that type of  Q business do the same thing with no hope of increasing your market share by doing  O things in a better manner, AND, there is a software application that fits your eJ business rather well, then packaged applications will be a winner for you.  J If your business requires you to 'do it just a bit better' in order to be I successful, then a rigid package just won't do, and some of the flexible OH packages are rather complex (and expensive) to install, use, and modify.  O Then there are the examples of custom home grown applications that give such a  M bad reputation.  All the terms and ship via codes are hard coded, along with  I custom logic for each one.  Modification and changing business needs are PN expensive, inflexible, and serve to provide job security for a bunch of hacks.  Q In the middle are the small ISVs that produce applications for vertical markets, cN in-house developed applications that are well designed, well implemented, and K flexible, the packages that get adopted by in-house people who add company oG specific business requirements, and the packages that get modified and  6 maintained by the ISV or other outside technical help.  K The last group of applications are particularly suitable for VMS with it's R robust development environment.n  M So why do some companies attempt to move to the SAPs and such, when it's not aO really a good fit for them?  Too many reasons, some of them with some validity.t  M 1) The clueless bean counter who finally advanced to a position of authority oN figures that he can cut costs to enhance profits, and ends up cutting out the  muscle and keeping the fat.)  M 2)The 'big ego' IT staff that perpetuates the custom 'everything hard coded' nL systems that serve the IT staff much better than they do the business needs.  I 3) The managers that listen to the 'Authur Andersons', who are much more  K interested in selling $250/hr SAP consultants to the customer, than in the   customer's well being.   <many more>/   Dave   ------------------------------    Date: 17 Jul 2002 16:55:31 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)8% Subject: Re: What are we migrating...t3 Message-ID: <gFl14OBZV6IS@eisner.encompasserve.org>1  ^ In article <3D358C83.9B5173B0@unnecessary.csc.com>, Ade <abirkett@unnecessary.csc.com> writes: > All, > # > Thanks for your responses so far.E > ; > In answer to a couple of postings, basically everything!!D  @ Meaning you have programs written in SCAN, RPGII, LISP, Modula2,? Dibol and lots of connect-to-interrupt realtime code written in- VAX C (not DEC C).  ' And you are using ASMP under VMS V2.0 ?n  
 > The currentD@ > project includes in-house applications for which the source isA > available, ancient applications for which it isn't, from littleN  5 And the ancient applications are written in VAX Ada ?r  J > standalone programs to complete 'environments'. We also have to take 3rdH > parties into account as you would imagine, which is always easier said > than done :-)l  J It is absolutely impossible to say anything about third party applications without knowing their names.  I > Apologies for sounding rather vague at this point but we are in more ofB > a research stage at present.  G You should start by writing down the things you know, like VMS version,T Third Party product names, etc.C  F > If anybody has any experiences in this field, good, bad or downrightJ > ugly, or has experiences of any services you may have used, feel free toG > mail me direct - just remove the unnecessary bit from my stated reply.
 > address.  D You might consider segmenting the work and asking for separate bids.C There is no reason to believe the same outfit would be best for all  application ports.   ------------------------------    Date: 17 Jul 2002 15:26:21 -0700( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)% Subject: Re: What are we migrating... < Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0207171426.968bafe@posting.google.com>  c Ade <abirkett@unnecessary.csc.com> wrote in message news:<3D358C83.9B5173B0@unnecessary.csc.com>.../ > All, > # > Thanks for your responses so far.9 > G > In answer to a couple of postings, basically everything!! The currents@ > project includes in-house applications for which the source isA > available, ancient applications for which it isn't, from little6J > standalone programs to complete 'environments'. We also have to take 3rdH > parties into account as you would imagine, which is always easier said > than done :-)T > I > Apologies for sounding rather vague at this point but we are in more of- > a research stage at present. > F > If anybody has any experiences in this field, good, bad or downrightJ > ugly, or has experiences of any services you may have used, feel free toG > mail me direct - just remove the unnecessary bit from my stated replyr
 > address. > 
 > Regards, >  > Adee  7 it depends what apps you are talking about ... what db?y9 We moved our RMS DIBOL stuff right over to alpha from vaxo; along with sysuaf, recompiled, and off we went ... it couldt7 be as simple as that depending on what you are porting.e   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 14:57:52 -0700n* From: "Alder" <MUNDDGNTDYTV@spammotel.com>* Subject: Re: [Hobbyist] User account setup+ Message-ID: <3d35e86d$1@obsidian.gov.bc.ca>p  : "Larry Kilgallen" <Kilgallen@SpamCop.net> wrote in message- news:UJf9SePv+5Xk@eisner.encompasserve.org...vH > In article <17JUL200200482615@gerg.tamu.edu>, carl@gerg.tamu.edu (Carl Perkins) writes:2 > > "Alder" <MUNDDGNTDYTV@spammotel.com> writes... > >oF > > The line after the above probably said: "Insufficient privilege or  > > object protection violation" >rG > No, the line after the above probably was missing.  LOGINOUT.EXE doesm+ > that a lot, perhaps for security reasons.   G That's correct.  Nothing appeared after the activation failure message.e   Alder    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 15:01:54 -0700e* From: "Alder" <MUNDDGNTDYTV@spammotel.com>* Subject: Re: [Hobbyist] User account setup+ Message-ID: <3d35e95f$1@obsidian.gov.bc.ca>   L I'll be sure to check again as soon as I can access the system again.  I didL check protections on DCLTABLES.EXE myself before I posted,and seem to recallJ it was only W:E, which was set by the system when I installed.the BobbyistL kit, My wonderful WinME gateway is down yet again so I'll have to wait until I get home.E  ' Thanks to everyone for the suggestions..   Aldera    F "Brian Tillman" <tillman_brian@notnoone.notnohow.com> wrote in message news:3d359341$1@news.si.com...E > Personally, I'd have both the CLI and TABLES values set to nothing.$ (I.e.,K > MOD ALDER/CLI=""/CLITAB="").  I'd also place people in a group other thanvK > [200,*] (although that's a personal preference; nothing magic about groupt > 200).e >oB > I'd say the protection on SYS$SYSTEM:DCLTABLES.EXE is incorrect. > --C > Brian Tillman                   Internet: tillman_brian at si.comuC > Smiths Aerospace                          tillman at swdev.si.comb? > 3290 Patterson Ave. SE, MS      Addresses modified to preventE> > Grand Rapids, MI 49512-1991     SPAM.  Replace "at" with "@": >        This opinion doesn't represent that of my company >  >    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2002 01:01:54 GMT11 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>o* Subject: Re: [Hobbyist] User account setup' Message-ID: <3D3617EB.97D44EA5@fsi.net>0   Alder wrote: > N > I'll be sure to check again as soon as I can access the system again.  I didN > check protections on DCLTABLES.EXE myself before I posted,and seem to recallL > it was only W:E, which was set by the system when I installed.the Bobbyist3 > kit, My wonderful WinME gateway is down yet againO   Micro$hit - gotta love it!   > so I'll have to wait until
 > I get home.   E Check an account that's working, also. Check the CLI specification in- Authorize for that account.   H You should know also that there is no "hobbyist" version of VMS - VMS isH VMS, regardless of the install source. Nothing special was done to buildG the hobbyist distro. AFAIK. There is a hobbyist LICENSE, but no specialp version of VMS.    --   David J. Dachterao dba DJE Systems- http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/-   ------------------------------   Date: 17 Jul 2002 23:03 CDTB' From: carl@gerg.tamu.edu (Carl Perkins)S* Subject: Re: [Hobbyist] User account setup- Message-ID: <17JUL200223034958@gerg.tamu.edu>   1 Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) writes... X }In article <17JUL200200482615@gerg.tamu.edu>, carl@gerg.tamu.edu (Carl Perkins) writes:1 }> "Alder" <MUNDDGNTDYTV@spammotel.com> writes...  }> }Username: alder:
 }> }Password:37 }> }Error activating command interpreter SYS$SYSTEM:DCLt }> } "N }> }Would someone please suggest a way to track down the source of this error? }> }Thanks.  }> } o	 }> }Alder  }>  E }> The line after the above probably said: "Insufficient privilege or  }> object protection violation"a } F }No, the line after the above probably was missing.  LOGINOUT.EXE does* }that a lot, perhaps for security reasons.  ! It may depend on how you connect.w  F I actually tried setting DCL.EXE to no W access to make sure that thisF was the message it gave and doing a SET HOST 0 in a DECterm gives both lines when it fails.   --- Carl   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2002.392 ************************