1 INFO-VAX	Thu, 18 Jul 2002	Volume 2002 : Issue 393       Contents:- Re: "Clean" CISC (was Re: McKinley Cometh...) - Re: "Clean" CISC (was Re: McKinley Cometh...) - Re: "Clean" CISC (was Re: McKinley Cometh...)  3100 CDROM compatibility Alpha Processor Inc ???  Re: Alpha Processor Inc ??? ) Alphaserver 1200 512KB memory kit on ebay ; CLI access to HSV's (was: Re: StorageWorks HSG controllers) ? Re: CLI access to HSV's (was: Re: StorageWorks HSG controllers) 1 Re: Command Procedure to logoff inactive users... 1 Re: Command Procedure to logoff inactive users...  Re: CXX questions  DCL Question Re: DCL Question Re: DCL Question Re: DCL Question0 Excellent Commerzbank OpenVMS public testimonial4 RE: Excellent Commerzbank OpenVMS public testimonial4 Re: Excellent Commerzbank OpenVMS public testimonial Info message CC-I-QUESTCOMPARE" Re: Info message CC-I-QUESTCOMPARE" Re: Info message CC-I-QUESTCOMPARE" Re: Info message CC-I-QUESTCOMPARE" Re: Info message CC-I-QUESTCOMPARE Re: McKinley Cometh... Re: MQSeriesL Multifunction PCI adapters.  Was: DS10L Feedback - more for the pickin' ! !!3 Re: need help: ODBC driver for rdb on OpenVMS Alpha + Re: Only 20% drop in VMS systems (was: wow) + Re: Only 20% drop in VMS systems (was: wow) 0 Re: OpenVMS mentioned by HP in Itanium 2 article0 Re: OpenVMS mentioned by HP in Itanium 2 article0 Re: OpenVMS mentioned by HP in Itanium 2 article0 RE: OpenVMS mentioned by HP in Itanium 2 article0 Re: OpenVMS mentioned by HP in Itanium 2 article0 Re: OpenVMS mentioned by HP in Itanium 2 article0 Re: OpenVMS mentioned by HP in Itanium 2 article Power Supply for a DS10  Re: Removing Q-Bus Cards Re: Removing Q-Bus Cards Re: Removing Q-Bus Cards Re: Removing Q-Bus CardsP Re: StorageWorks HSG controllers, do you use STEAM agents or the   Management ApP Re: StorageWorks HSG controllers, do you use STEAM agents or the  Management AppP Re: StorageWorks HSG controllers, do you use STEAM agents or the Management Appl- SUMMARY: ODL for Tru64 and OpenVMS on same PC ! Re: TCPIP/UCX Version Information ! Re: TCPIP/UCX Version Information ! Re: TCPIP/UCX Version Information ! Re: TCPIP/UCX Version Information 8 Re: Terminal Emu to MicroVaxII - typed characters effect  Re: VAX to Alpha migration tools Re: VMS commitment Re: VMS commitment XP1000 667mhz USD 2995!!! ! Re: [Hobbyist] User account setup ! Re: [Hobbyist] User account setup ! Re: [Hobbyist] User account setup ! Re: [Hobbyist] User account setup ! Re: [Hobbyist] User account setup   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2002 11:17:00 +0200 E From: Jan C. =?iso-8859-1?Q?Vorbr=FCggen?= <jvorbrueggen@mediasec.de> 6 Subject: Re: "Clean" CISC (was Re: McKinley Cometh...)+ Message-ID: <3D36878C.C7D3CB62@mediasec.de>   J > The second failure mode (prefetching further ahead) is handled by having4 > specialized non-faulting prefetch load operations.  L Or have an access violation exception handler that not only knows about pageL faults but also about speculative loads generated by compilers...this is theM way the Compaq compilers do it on Alpha, and why they need OS support for it.   N Incidentally, my first reply was triggered by one of Nick, and its point _was_K access beyond the defined data structure. Now that I think of it, I believe L he was (trying to) discuss using whole-word access for strcpy and friends onK the word in which a string ends. In theory, the C standard(s) might require I that any excess bytes not be written (reading but ignoring them should be B unproblematic anyway), but such theory notwithstanding I think anyJ implementation in which that were a problem should be considered broken inI any case. After all, the compiler is clearly allowed to leave those extra # bytes up to a word boundary unused.    	Jan   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2002 15:35:22 GMT 0 From: prune@ZAnkh-Morpork.mv.com (Paul Winalski)6 Subject: Re: "Clean" CISC (was Re: McKinley Cometh...)9 Message-ID: <3d36e080.3424844305@proxy.news.easynews.com>   * On Wed, 17 Jul 2002 17:34:38 +0200, Jan C.? =?iso-8859-1?Q?Vorbr=FCggen?= <jvorbrueggen@mediasec.de> wrote:   I >As noted previously, there is a direct comparison available: The NVAX(+) O >and the 21064 were implemented contemporaneously and in the same semiconductor M >process. They have a performance difference of about 2, at least as measured  >by SPEC95.   E AFAIK, NVAX wasn't done using the Pentium technique of having a first F stage that 'compiles' the CISC instructions into a series of RISC-like  E instructions that are then fed to the rest of the hardware.  It would C be interesting to see what applying that set of technqiues could do  for VAX performance.
 ---------- Remove 'Z' to reply by email.    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2002 17:52:34 GMT # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> 6 Subject: Re: "Clean" CISC (was Re: McKinley Cometh...)G Message-ID: <CfDZ8.32087$WsS.8103@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>   . "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> wrote in message3 news:CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIIECKFGAA.tom@kednos.com...  >  > L > During the time of the great Persian empire, towers were built at suitable	 > spacing G > and fire as a light source was used to send signals, so if some force  landed > on theF > western shores of Turkey the identy and size of force would be known within
 > 24 hours= > several thousand miles away, that was about 2500 years ago.  > >   K Free-space directed energy, mounted on high platforms to escape the effects G of low-lying haze and to be visible from great distances. Sounds like a  'Star Wars' precursor. :-)   ------------------------------    Date: 18 Jul 2002 03:00:46 -0700$ From: issinoho@slayme.com (issinoho)! Subject: 3100 CDROM compatibility = Message-ID: <d0141774.0207180200.5cb38dc6@posting.google.com>    The VAXStation 3100 FAQ pageE (http://home.iae.nl/users/pb0aia/vax/vs3khw.html) lists the following  DEC drives as compatible...   ( DEC RRD40, slow, first generation CD-ROM
 DEC RRD42, 1X 	 DEC RRD43 	 DEC RRD45 	 DEC RRD46   = any reason the RRD44 is not in this list? Will it work with a  VAXStation 3100?   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2002 07:50:41 -0400 ) From: "Neil Rieck" <n.rieck@sympatico.ca>   Subject: Alpha Processor Inc ???9 Message-ID: <1YxZ8.3102$1t.1355006@news20.bellglobal.com>   I Alpha Processor Inc. started as an alliance between DEC and Samsung which F continued after Compaq purchased DEC. They used to have a web site at: http://www.alpha-processor.com/ J which is currently dead. Does anyone know what happened to Alpha Processor Inc.  
 Neil Rieck Kitchener/Waterloo/Cambridge,  Ontario, Canada.! http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2002 12:35:17 GMT , From: "Kenneth Farmer" <kfarmer@openvms.org>$ Subject: Re: Alpha Processor Inc ???: Message-ID: <9CyZ8.555$xj6.68140@twister.southeast.rr.com>  4 "Neil Rieck" <n.rieck@sympatico.ca> wrote in message3 news:1YxZ8.3102$1t.1355006@news20.bellglobal.com...  > K > Alpha Processor Inc. started as an alliance between DEC and Samsung which H > continued after Compaq purchased DEC. They used to have a web site at:! > http://www.alpha-processor.com/ L > which is currently dead. Does anyone know what happened to Alpha Processor > Inc.    3 API NetWorks, Inc. (formerly Alpha Processor, Inc.)  130C Baker Ave Extension Concord, MA 01742  TEL: 978-318-1100  FAX: 978-371-3177   URL: http://www.api-networks.com   Description G API NetWorks, Inc. (formerly Alpha Processor, Inc.), founded in June of F 1998, is a privately held company based in Concord, Massachusetts. APIK NetWorks addresses the demand for bandwidth and time-to-market requirements I in the electronics industry. Its high-performance, high-density component F technologies are ideal for markets such as the network infrastructure,J telecommunications, PC, workstation and server, among others. API NetWorksB is a co-developer (with AMD) of the next generation high-speed I/OE HyperTransportTM (formerly known as LDT) technology and is focused on A delivering high-performance servers and components utilizing this  technology.        --   Kenneth Farmer http://www.Tru64.org http://www.OpenVMS.org http://www.LinuxHPC.org    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2002 13:13:40 GMT ' From: ZLiu <zliu@webbrick.hardened.com> 2 Subject: Alphaserver 1200 512KB memory kit on ebay: Message-ID: <8azZ8.8088$QY4.1286654@news20.bellglobal.com>  % Check ebay for an auction for that...    ------------------------------   Date: 18 Jul 2002 07:43:40 GMT7 From: sy18889@rabmbit.famrp.cosm (Bradford J. Hamilton) D Subject: CLI access to HSV's (was: Re: StorageWorks HSG controllers)! Message-ID: <FcgPt3HRvU1U@rabbit>    Hello,  O ISTR that when SWCC was first introduced for the HSJ/G80s, that there was to be J no CLI interface.  Folks were so upset at the time, and somehow made theirL feelings known to COMPAQ in such a way that COMPAQ relented, and allowed CLI access to HSJ/G80s.   G I made my feelings known to the COMPAQ folks at a StorageWorks event in O Shrewsbury, MA late last year, regarding lack of CLI access to the HSVs (others M in the audience did, as well).  I suspect that the feelings expressed in this N thread are indicative of the fact that the majority of potential HSV customers$ would like to see CLI access to HSVs  O So, HP - is there anyone out there who would like to carry this message back to N the StorageWorks folks (assuming that a majority here are in agreement) - that, we would like to see CLI access to the HSVs?     T In article <3D369A94.306A02DF@127.0.0.1>, Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1> writes: > "David J. Dachtera" wrote: >>   >> Marc Van Dyck wrote:  >> >D >> > For all what we have tried, the simplest and most efficient wayC >> > to control, configure and monitor an HSZ/HSG is still the good E >> > old serial console, connected to a terminal server and monitored  >> > by Console Manager. >> >< >> > The new HSV, however, won't have a console line anymore@ >> > (a very bad decision if you ask me) so SWMA will be a must. >>   >> No serial console???!!! >>   >> HP: ARE YOU HIGH???!!!  >>  / >> WHAT THE HELL ARE THESE PEOPLE SMOKING???!!!  >>   >> ...and where can I get some?  >>  H >> One thing's for sure - they won't be selling as many of those as they& >> could if they hadn't screwed it up! > F > David, the bad news is the Compaq ENSA stuff was/is moving this way.J > When this stuff was being introduced, the presenter pointed out that theF > serial console you see won't be there in the production items, and aH > regular contributor to this list, did point out and ask if (due to theI > fact it's based on a cut-down MS operating system) when a virus hit it,  > if data would be unavailable.  > H > The answer was, you'd still get to your data, but managing it would be > an issue.  > H > Where's the queue for the smoke? I don't currently, but if it's _that_	 > good...  >  > --  A > Regards, Nic Clews a.k.a. Mr. CP Charges, CSC Computer Sciences  > nclews at csc dot com  --   Bradford J. Hamilton& braMdhamAilPtoSn@aMtAtPbi.cSom		(home)& sMy1A88P89S@rabMbit.fAmPr.coSm		(work)  ; "All opinions that I express are my own, not my employer's"  "Lose the MAPS"    ------------------------------    Date: 18 Jul 2002 11:59:38 -0600+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) H Subject: Re: CLI access to HSV's (was: Re: StorageWorks HSG controllers)3 Message-ID: <EEdga8DPkGQ2@eisner.encompasserve.org>   [ In article <FcgPt3HRvU1U@rabbit>, sy18889@rabmbit.famrp.cosm (Bradford J. Hamilton) writes:  > Hello, > Q > ISTR that when SWCC was first introduced for the HSJ/G80s, that there was to be L > no CLI interface.  Folks were so upset at the time, and somehow made theirN > feelings known to COMPAQ in such a way that COMPAQ relented, and allowed CLI > access to HSJ/G80s.  > I > I made my feelings known to the COMPAQ folks at a StorageWorks event in Q > Shrewsbury, MA late last year, regarding lack of CLI access to the HSVs (others O > in the audience did, as well).  I suspect that the feelings expressed in this P > thread are indicative of the fact that the majority of potential HSV customers& > would like to see CLI access to HSVs > Q > So, HP - is there anyone out there who would like to carry this message back to P > the StorageWorks folks (assuming that a majority here are in agreement) - that. > we would like to see CLI access to the HSVs? >    	That was then, this is now.  > 	As long as the scripting tool works, I'm fine.  How bout you?  < 	I need CLI on HSJ and HSG.  The layout and carving has beenA 	virtualized away in HSV.  I need a tool to break off SnapClones,  	that tool is there.  E 	Curious, why do you need it?  Seems said functionality doesn't exist ? 	in EMC, does it exist in HDS?  If EVA and beyond runs with the B 	big dogs, hide things that are breakable.  For every sharpshooter> 	in this forum that is comfortable, I'm sure too many calls goB 	to Colorado for HSJ/HSZ/HSG CLI issues.  Finally, they talk aboutC 	how easy to manage.  Most of that is "click here and click there". = 	Yeah, "point and click crowd" can do it.  Learn to drive the : 	big rigs and/or welding school and/or EVA management :-).   				Rob    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2002 11:57:16 +0200 9 From: Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com> : Subject: Re: Command Procedure to logoff inactive users...' Message-ID: <3D3690FC.C372FC95@aaa.com>   % WATCHER takes care (sort of) of this. 1 You can "/exclude" any process from beeing logout 	 based on   - a specific indentifier - a specific terminal port/name  - a specific username ( - a specific time of day or day in week.   Highly flexible.  6 I think as Larry and Hoff, there is realy no reason to' try to write anything similar yourself.    Jan-Erik Sderholm.    Larry Kilgallen wrote: >  > A > In certain environments you will run into "activity" indicators A > that VMS is incapable of measuring, such as corporate decisions E > that processes being run by anyone above the rank of vice president  > are never "inactive".    ------------------------------    Date: 18 Jul 2002 12:38:34 -0600B From: clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP (Simon Clubley): Subject: Re: Command Procedure to logoff inactive users...3 Message-ID: <Cem6eIGRlsCH@eisner.encompasserve.org>   c In article <IWPdGro6zVfl@eisner.encompasserve.org>, Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) writes:  > A > In certain environments you will run into "activity" indicators A > that VMS is incapable of measuring, such as corporate decisions E > that processes being run by anyone above the rank of vice president  > are never "inactive".   F VMS most certainly can determine that someone is above a specific rankB provided that someone fully uses the tools available to them while creating the user's account.  G The idea is that you create identifiers that reflect the organisation's H structure and you then assign the relevant identifiers from this list to the user's account.   C I have identifiers for (1) each company within my employer's group, I (2) for each department that exists within at least one of the companies, F and (3) for the user's seniority (administrator, line manager, company manager, etc).  I The relevant identifiers are assigned to the user at account creation and = are very easy to maintain if the user changes job or company.    Simon.  G PS: In this case of a process killer, this is easily available from DCL * using f$getjpi("target_pid","RIGHTSLIST").   --  B Simon Clubley, clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP       + Microsoft: The Lada of the computing world.    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2002 13:22:14 GMT 3 From: "Duane Smith" <Duane.Smith@nospam.compaq.com>  Subject: Re: CXX questions2 Message-ID: <aizZ8.15$pm3.320562@news.cpqcorp.net>  E The answer by Martin was on the money.  The following modified source K compiles cleanly because the compiler can increment through the pointers to  the arrays.   
 $ cxx net.cxx  $ type net.cxx int main() {     int arr1[10],arr2[10],i,j;   int *a1ptr = &arr1[0];   int *a2ptr = &arr2[0];     for(i=0; i<10; i++) {      arr2[i] = i;     arr1[i] = i-10;u   }0     while(*a1ptr++ = *a2ptr++);e   return 0;C }a $e    4 "JMK" <jeffrey.m.klopotic@lmco.com> wrote in message" news:3D34CB08.4FE32CC7@lmco.com...G > First, is this the best newsgroup for HPQ CXX questions?  If not, I'm?I > looking for suggestions on where the new one(s) are.  I need to ask our , > news server admin to add them to the list. >cC > Second, should the following code (as seen in Stroustrup from ther  > earliest editions) run on CXX? >gJ > I have two arrays of same data type and size and want to copy one to the4 > other.  Evidently some implementations will allow: >C > datatype arr1[10], arr2[10]; >l > arr1 = arr2; >nI > But in CXX I get an error message about a needing a modifiable l-value.l' > So I try the old Stroustrup example..c >s > while(*arr1++ = *arr2++);U >CG > and I still get the same complaint from the compiler about modifiableM
 > l-value. >mI > Is this supposed to be able to run, or is there something that needs toC > be fixed?  >e > TIA, >f > Jeff Klopotice   ------------------------------    Date: 18 Jul 2002 09:05:06 -0700 From: jcho888@yahoo.com (James)h Subject: DCL Questionn= Message-ID: <43c45dcb.0207180805.49ffcb84@posting.google.com>:  C Is possible to write a DCL batch file so when ever you encounter ane4 error, just resume to the next command and continue?   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2002 17:15:00 +0100t( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1> Subject: Re: DCL Questione) Message-ID: <3D36E984.B5D0DA2A@127.0.0.1>n   James wrote: > E > Is possible to write a DCL batch file so when ever you encounter ans6 > error, just resume to the next command and continue?  
 $ SET NOON  E (Actually SET NO ON (ERROR). When I was young and innocent, I used toe> wonder why lunchtime was so important on a VAX). $ HELP SET ON  ; You can still examine and take action on the $STATUS value.l --  ? Regards, Nic Clews a.k.a. Mr. CP Charges, CSC Computer SciencesT nclews at csc dot come   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2002 18:18:47 +0200 2 From: "Ren Schelbaum" <rene.schelbaum@datakom.at> Subject: Re: DCL QuestioneG Message-ID: <3d36ea66$0$33064$91cee783@newsreader02.highway.telekom.at>a  2 "James" <jcho888@yahoo.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag7 news:43c45dcb.0207180805.49ffcb84@posting.google.com...uE > Is possible to write a DCL batch file so when ever you encounter anu6 > error, just resume to the next command and continue?   Hi!o   Type 'help on'   it will tell you how to do this-  I I prefer to use 'set noon' and check the value of $status after each linem where an error could occur.=  B Anyways, you should check the dcl-manuals before you start coding.   Ren   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2002 18:32:18 +0200d9 From: Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com>i Subject: Re: DCL Questioni' Message-ID: <3D36ED92.FEF5EB78@aaa.com>n  : Yes, and why (to be consistent with the rest of DCL) there! wasn't any SET NONOON command :-)t   Jan-Erik Sderholm.c   Nic Clews wrote: >  > $ SET NOON > G > (Actually SET NO ON (ERROR). When I was young and innocent, I used tol@ > wonder why lunchtime was so important on a VAX). $ HELP SET ON >    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2002 10:10:39 -0400 5 From: "Sue Skonetski" <susan.skonetski@hp.nospam.com>r9 Subject: Excellent Commerzbank OpenVMS public testimonial * Message-ID: <ah6i8h$51l$1@web1.cup.hp.com>   Dear Newsgroup,   L I have just received a PDF file of a Commerzbank testimonial regarding 9/11.  / Warren will be posting this (knowing Warren) ona2 http://www.openvms.compaq.com/success-stories.html  I Here is part of it.  If you need the pdf file prior to the posting on theh web site just send me mail.d  
 Warm Regards,  SueJ  6 That imperative creates a challenge for the bank. Gene  4 Batan, Vice President of the Systems and Information  4 Technology Department of Commerzbank, North America,  8 explains, "My primary concern is to minimize downtime to  < the point of zero - and ascertain that there is a redundancy  : of data in several locations. We need to ensure that there  7 is no downtime on any critical production system at anyb   point in time."a  : Zero downtime is why the bank has run its critical systems  0 on the OpenVMS operating system since the 1980s.  3 According to Batan, "OpenVMS is the most secure and5  4 reliable operating system we have ever experienced."  ; Like most enterprises today, Commerzbank has a multi-vendorn  - computing environment. However, the bank runs   5 its most critical banking applications on AlphaServeri  3 GS160 platforms. These applications include a moneyc  8 transfer system responsible for the bank's connection to  4 the Federal Reserve and the New York Clearing House,  8 a trading system, a banking system that handles internal  : banking requirements, a letter of credit system, a futures  5 and options system, and much more - all running undere  4 OpenVMS. The bank uses StorageWorks systems to store  : an impressive 2 terabytes of data utilizing RAID 0, RAID 1  4 and RAID 5 technology in a SAN environment. HP fibre  ' switches are utilized to form the SANs.c  7 To ensure constant uptime, the bank has one AlphaServer,  6 GS160 system at its primary site in downtown Manhattan  6 and another at its remote site, which is 30 miles away  6 in Rye, New York. Also at the remote site is a pair of  7 AlphaServer 4100 systems. These servers are part of then  8 OpenVMS cluster at the primary site, and their only role  ; is to serve the remote drives to the primary location usinga  2 Mass Storage Control Program (MSCP), a part of the  4 OpenVMS operating system. The disk drives are either  9 RAID configured or mirrored at local and remote sites, ass   well as volume shadowed.  5 Batan says, "Because of OpenVMS wide-area clustering,   6 the storage at our remote site is always available and   updated in real time."   surviving the meltdown  - Boensch explains what happened to the bank on4  9 September 11. "From a technology point of view, the firstR  7 thing we lost was our communication link to the Federal3  9 Reserve and the New York Clearing House. One of our staff0  < switched the links to our remote site. Since our AlphaServer  8 GS160 system at our primary site was running, we started  4 to receive payment messages from the Federal Reserve  2 Bank of New York and the New York Clearing House."   testing disaster tolerance  3 While most large organizations today have plans fora  : Disaster Tolerance (DT), few have to put them to the test.  / The North American headquarters of Commerzbank,e  7 located less than 100 yards from the World Trade Center/  : in New York City, put its DT plan into action on September  / 11, 2001. Because Commerzbank relies on OpenVMSn  6 wide-area clustering, volume shadowing and AlphaServer  7 GS160 systems from HP, the bank was able to function onu  ; 9/11 because its critical banking applications continued tom  : run at the primary site and were available from the bank's   remote site.  3 Foresight has long been an asset of Commerzbank AG,n  ; the parent bank, which was founded in 1870. Frankfurt-basedh  , Commerzbank has experienced and helped shape  2 130 years of German economic history - from empire  7 to monetary union, from the gold mark to the euro. Withn  7 consolidated total assets of roughly 500 billion euros,i  0 Commerzbank is one of Germany's - and Europe's -  0 leading banks. The Commerzbank AG Group includes  4 numerous subsidiaries in Germany and in 45 countries  6 around the world. The New York branch, set up in 1971,  = was the first to be established in the U.S. by a German bank.d  3 Commerzbank, North America is a wholesale bank thatn  2 serves approximately 500 clients, many of whom are  9 Fortune 500 companies. The bank specializes in areas suchs  9 as corporate banking, syndications, real estate financingt   and public financing.e   zero tolerance for downtimeo  5 According to Werner Boensch, Executive Vice Presidente  1 of Commerzbank, North America, "Our tolerance fors   downtime is zero."   www.commerzbank-usa.com    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2002 07:39:55 -0700t# From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com>S= Subject: RE: Excellent Commerzbank OpenVMS public testimonial-9 Message-ID: <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIMEJKFGAA.tom@kednos.com>w  F Well now I guess we know that they don't write their programs in C :-)   >-----Original Message-----2; >From: Sue Skonetski [mailto:susan.skonetski@hp.nospam.com] & >Sent: Thursday, July 18, 2002 7:11 AM >To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com: >Subject: Excellent Commerzbank OpenVMS public testimonial >n >  >Dear Newsgroup, >o> >I have just received a PDF file of a Commerzbank testimonial  >regarding 9/11. > 0 >Warren will be posting this (knowing Warren) on3 >http://www.openvms.compaq.com/success-stories.htmlr >eJ >Here is part of it.  If you need the pdf file prior to the posting on the >web site just send me mail. >Q >Warm Regards, >Sue >I7 >That imperative creates a challenge for the bank. Gene  >P5 >Batan, Vice President of the Systems and Informationt >a5 >Technology Department of Commerzbank, North America,r > 9 >explains, "My primary concern is to minimize downtime to  >r= >the point of zero - and ascertain that there is a redundancyr > ; >of data in several locations. We need to ensure that thereS > 8 >is no downtime on any critical production system at any >t >point in time." > ; >Zero downtime is why the bank has run its critical systemsa >e1 >on the OpenVMS operating system since the 1980s.e >V4 >According to Batan, "OpenVMS is the most secure and >l5 >reliable operating system we have ever experienced."e > < >Like most enterprises today, Commerzbank has a multi-vendor >e. >computing environment. However, the bank runs >>6 >its most critical banking applications on AlphaServer >e4 >GS160 platforms. These applications include a money >s9 >transfer system responsible for the bank's connection toT >n5 >the Federal Reserve and the New York Clearing House,> > 9 >a trading system, a banking system that handles internal> > ; >banking requirements, a letter of credit system, a futures  > 6 >and options system, and much more - all running under >>5 >OpenVMS. The bank uses StorageWorks systems to storer >r; >an impressive 2 terabytes of data utilizing RAID 0, RAID 1i >h5 >and RAID 5 technology in a SAN environment. HP fibret >C( >switches are utilized to form the SANs. >h8 >To ensure constant uptime, the bank has one AlphaServer > 7 >GS160 system at its primary site in downtown Manhattanp >u7 >and another at its remote site, which is 30 miles awayi >o7 >in Rye, New York. Also at the remote site is a pair oft >w8 >AlphaServer 4100 systems. These servers are part of the > 9 >OpenVMS cluster at the primary site, and their only roley > < >is to serve the remote drives to the primary location using >u3 >Mass Storage Control Program (MSCP), a part of thea > 5 >OpenVMS operating system. The disk drives are either  >C: >RAID configured or mirrored at local and remote sites, as >  >well as volume shadowed.h >i6 >Batan says, "Because of OpenVMS wide-area clustering, >m7 >the storage at our remote site is always available andm >m >updated in real time."S >  >surviving the meltdown- >-. >Boensch explains what happened to the bank on >_: >September 11. "From a technology point of view, the first >V8 >thing we lost was our communication link to the Federal >a: >Reserve and the New York Clearing House. One of our staff >r= >switched the links to our remote site. Since our AlphaServers > 9 >GS160 system at our primary site was running, we startedr >e5 >to receive payment messages from the Federal ReserveF >s3 >Bank of New York and the New York Clearing House."  >l >testing disaster tolerancea >y4 >While most large organizations today have plans for >8; >Disaster Tolerance (DT), few have to put them to the test.  >r0 >The North American headquarters of Commerzbank, >r8 >located less than 100 yards from the World Trade Center >d; >in New York City, put its DT plan into action on Septembern >i0 >11, 2001. Because Commerzbank relies on OpenVMS >r7 >wide-area clustering, volume shadowing and AlphaServerc >s8 >GS160 systems from HP, the bank was able to function on >l< >9/11 because its critical banking applications continued to >u; >run at the primary site and were available from the bank'sd >k
 >remote site.c > 4 >Foresight has long been an asset of Commerzbank AG, >o< >the parent bank, which was founded in 1870. Frankfurt-based >e- >Commerzbank has experienced and helped shapea >e3 >130 years of German economic history - from empire  > 8 >to monetary union, from the gold mark to the euro. With >e8 >consolidated total assets of roughly 500 billion euros, > 1 >Commerzbank is one of Germany's - and Europe's -  >g1 >leading banks. The Commerzbank AG Group includesh >s5 >numerous subsidiaries in Germany and in 45 countrieso >n7 >around the world. The New York branch, set up in 1971,a >,> >was the first to be established in the U.S. by a German bank. > 4 >Commerzbank, North America is a wholesale bank that > 3 >serves approximately 500 clients, many of whom areh > : >Fortune 500 companies. The bank specializes in areas such >-: >as corporate banking, syndications, real estate financing >r >and public financing. >l >zero tolerance for downtime >C6 >According to Werner Boensch, Executive Vice President >32 >of Commerzbank, North America, "Our tolerance for >o >downtime is zero."  >x >www.commerzbank-usa.com >g >g >  >---' >Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.c; >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).c@ >Version: 6.0.373 / Virus Database: 208 - Release Date: 7/1/2002 >a ---f& Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.: Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).? Version: 6.0.373 / Virus Database: 208 - Release Date: 7/1/2002l   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2002 17:48:30 GMTu# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>o= Subject: Re: Excellent Commerzbank OpenVMS public testimonial G Message-ID: <ObDZ8.32062$WsS.8361@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>2   Great testimonial Sue.  H Now how about condensing the highlights of it into a full page ad in theE Wall Street Journal, Computerworld, Information Week, and a few other@K publications to show the Fortune 1000, FT100, etc... that VMS-based systemsr6 do things that you can't easily do with anything else?  K Of course, that might be misconstrued as "marketing" to potential *new* VMSSB customers, and that's not supposed to happen in The New HP, is it?J [ See   http://www.hp.com/hpinfo/newsroom/press/07may02b.htm    "......TheH roles of these two families will be quite different. The PA-RISC serversF will be targeted at the PA-RISC installed base and ***all new businessE opportunities***. AlphaServer systems ***will be focused on the Alphan( installed base***."   (emphasis added) ]  L Why does HP even go to the effort of getting these testimonials in the firstI place if you aren't going to use them to leverage sales to new customers?rL It's a colossal waste of time, money, and customer goodwill if you don't use them to that effect.  L Since HP doesn't have working OpenVMS/Itanic-based systems to sell, lend, orK otherwise give customers access to, and won't for over a year, and that the J stated policy of HP is to NOT sell Alpha-based systems to *new* customers,J VMS will not be replacing any customer defections to Windows/*ix. Thus theI installed VMS base further declines, and HP EOL's VMS soon.  VMS is dead,_J and there's nothing as robust, secure, reliable, affordable, or as easy toI maintain from any vendor to replace it. What's wrong with HP??? Don't you  guys want to make more money?e  L As an aside, there will be a Homeland Security conference in Palo Alto soon,I hosted by HP, to talk about network security and other security issues. IoD know that this is meant to be a vendor-agnostic forum, but since theF principal attendees are all going to be people of immense influence inK academia, industry, military, and government, that would be a good place to0H drop broad hints about how secure VMS is. Also a great place to reaffirmG HP's commitment to expanding the use of OpenVMS in the interests of the0 security of the nation.f    > cc:  http://www.hp.com/hpinfo/execteam/email/fiorina/index.htm          @ "Sue Skonetski" <susan.skonetski@hp.nospam.com> wrote in message$ news:ah6i8h$51l$1@web1.cup.hp.com... > Dear Newsgroup,s >rH > I have just received a PDF file of a Commerzbank testimonial regarding 9/11.d >h1 > Warren will be posting this (knowing Warren) on 4 > http://www.openvms.compaq.com/success-stories.html >aK > Here is part of it.  If you need the pdf file prior to the posting on then > web site just send me mail.l >: > Warm Regards,a > Sue,   ------------------------------    Date: 18 Jul 2002 03:30:32 -0700! From: soterro@yahoo.com (Soterro)l' Subject: Info message CC-I-QUESTCOMPAREl= Message-ID: <d5440555.0207180230.10b89404@posting.google.com>h   Hello,  C That CC-I-QUESTCOMPARE I know, it's not an error, though I'd reallyu/ like to get rid of it. I don't like warnings :)h   So with a define like:  " #define RID_GEN_2       0x90010000   and a comparison like:    if (r->value >= RID_GEN_2) {...}  
 I get the > %CC-I-QUESTCOMPARE, In this statement, the unsigned expressionE "r->value" is being compared with a relational operator to a constanteA whose value is not greater than zero.  This might not be what youe	 intended.t  ? Now of course the constant is big enough to be thought as beinghB negative, but I know (correct me if I'm wrong) that _before_ beingC used it's converted to an unsigned so the result is always correct.0  E What could I do to avoid the message? the r->value must stay unsignede< for some good reasons, so I have no idea. Disabling messagesD altogether wouldn't be an option, I want to get rid of the cause not of the effect :)  
 Thank you, Sorino   ------------------------------    Date: 18 Jul 2002 12:55:14 +0200+ From: huber@vms.mppmu.mpg.de (Joseph Huber)S+ Subject: Re: Info message CC-I-QUESTCOMPARE + Message-ID: <Yv6t3sNJ9$ov@vms.mppmu.mpg.de>   a In article <d5440555.0207180230.10b89404@posting.google.com>, soterro@yahoo.com (Soterro) writes:  > Hello, > E > That CC-I-QUESTCOMPARE I know, it's not an error, though I'd reallye1 > like to get rid of it. I don't like warnings :)t >  > So with a define like: > $ > #define RID_GEN_2       0x90010000 >  > and a comparison like: > " > if (r->value >= RID_GEN_2) {...} >  > I get the @ > %CC-I-QUESTCOMPARE, In this statement, the unsigned expressionG > "r->value" is being compared with a relational operator to a constanttC > whose value is not greater than zero.  This might not be what youe > intended.  > A > Now of course the constant is big enough to be thought as beinglD > negative, but I know (correct me if I'm wrong) that _before_ beingE > used it's converted to an unsigned so the result is always correct.? > G > What could I do to avoid the message? the r->value must stay unsigned9> > for some good reasons, so I have no idea. Disabling messagesF > altogether wouldn't be an option, I want to get rid of the cause not > of the effect :) >  > Thank you, > Sorin   K You have to cast the constant to the type of r->value, like in this exampleo program:   #include <stdio.h>" #define RID_GEN_2       0x90010000 main() {   unsigned long value=0;=  if  (value >= (unsigned long)RID_GEN_2) printf(" bigger\n");s"    else printf(" same or less\n"); value = 0xA0010000;a=  if  (value >= (unsigned long)RID_GEN_2) printf(" bigger\n");c"    else printf(" same or less\n"); }e   ------------------------------    Date: 18 Jul 2002 08:12:08 -0600- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler))+ Subject: Re: Info message CC-I-QUESTCOMPAREt3 Message-ID: <gbKLRVoGWSmG@eisner.encompasserve.org>f  a In article <d5440555.0207180230.10b89404@posting.google.com>, soterro@yahoo.com (Soterro) writes:r > Hello, > E > That CC-I-QUESTCOMPARE I know, it's not an error, though I'd reallya1 > like to get rid of it. I don't like warnings :)a  =    Note the -I- in CC-I-QUESTCOMPARE.  This declares it to bee@    informational, not a warning.  A warning would be of the form    CC-W-QUESTCOMPARE.n  H    You may want to get rid of it anyhow, but if you're going to converse;    with VMS folks you should be precise about what you say.d   > So with a define like: > $ > #define RID_GEN_2       0x90010000 >  > and a comparison like: > " > if (r->value >= RID_GEN_2) {...} >  > I get the @ > %CC-I-QUESTCOMPARE, In this statement, the unsigned expressionG > "r->value" is being compared with a relational operator to a constantiC > whose value is not greater than zero.  This might not be what yout > intended.S >   +    OK, so make the constant greater than 0:d   Change: $ > #define RID_GEN_2       0x90010000   to%   #define RID_GEN_2       0x90010000Un   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2002 15:53:43 +0200a2 From: martin@radiogaga.harz.de (Martin Vorlaender)+ Subject: Re: Info message CC-I-QUESTCOMPAREm; Message-ID: <3d36c867.524144494f47414741@radiogaga.harz.de>s  , Joseph Huber (huber@vms.mppmu.mpg.de) wrote:% > soterro@yahoo.com (Soterro) writes:AG > > That CC-I-QUESTCOMPARE I know, it's not an error, though I'd reallya3 > > like to get rid of it. I don't like warnings :)u  A Technically it's an informational message, not even a warning ;-)i   > > So with a define like: > > & > > #define RID_GEN_2       0x90010000 > >  > > and a comparison like: > > $ > > if (r->value >= RID_GEN_2) {...} > >  > > I get the B > > %CC-I-QUESTCOMPARE, In this statement, the unsigned expressionI > > "r->value" is being compared with a relational operator to a constantsE > > whose value is not greater than zero.  This might not be what youp
 > > intended.  [snip]  E > You have to cast the constant to the type of r->value, like in thise > example program: >e > #include <stdio.h>$ > #define RID_GEN_2       0x90010000
 > main() { >  > unsigned long value=0;? >  if  (value >= (unsigned long)RID_GEN_2) printf(" bigger\n");h$ >    else printf(" same or less\n"); > value = 0xA0010000; ? >  if  (value >= (unsigned long)RID_GEN_2) printf(" bigger\n");h$ >    else printf(" same or less\n"); > }h  B Casting is the way to go, but a) they seem to integers, not longs," b) why not directly at the source?  * #define RID_GEN_2	(unsigned int)0x90010000   cu,    Martin -- sD                     | Martin Vorlaender    |    VMS & WNT programmer-   Smiert Spamionem  | work: mv@pdv-systeme.deaD                     |       http://www.pdv-systeme.de/users/martinv/4                     | home: martin@radiogaga.harz.de   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2002 12:34:45 -0400C& From: "Ed Vogel" <ed.vogel@compaq.com>+ Subject: Re: Info message CC-I-QUESTCOMPAREr, Message-ID: <3d36ee27_2@hpb10302.boi.hp.com>  D     The QUESTCOMPARE message is issued because the compiler believesF     the code may not run as you expect.  In the code you are comparingG     an unsigned int (r->value) to a negative number.  This seems like at     strange thing to do.  A     I believe you are compiling /STAND=VAX as the compiler treats.D     hex numbers as signed ints in that mode.  In all other modes the0     constant will be treated as an unsigned int.       Consider the program:e       #define X 0X90010000     unsigned long long int a;-     main() {         a = 0xFFFFFFF;         a <<= 2;         if (a >= X)o)             printf("was greater than\n");i     }s  F     Without /STAND=VAXC, this program compiles cleanly, and will print@     "was greater than".  This is probably the expected behavior.  J     When compiled /STAND=VAX, the informational is output, and the programI     will not print anything.  This is because when the *signed* int valuem	 0x9001000rH     is converted to an unsigned long long (to do the compare) it is sign extendedD     (as required by C), and it becomes a very large unsigned number.  I     We added the QUESTCOMPARE message to the compiler because we receivednL     a number of "bug reports" which were, in fact, user errors.  The problem was thatK     users did not understand when an expression was signed or unsigned.  Byi addingJ     this message it was our hope that coders could find their own problems more easily,,     saving work for both user and developer.  $                             Ed Vogel0                             Compaq C Engineering   ------------------------------   Date: 18 Jul 2002 17:03:04 GMT& From: peter@abbnm.com (Peter da Silva) Subject: Re: McKinley Cometh...-- Message-ID: <ah6sc8$jmb@web.eng.baileynm.com>s  3 In article <1026880351.688039@nnrp2.phx1.gblx.net>, * Dennis O'Connor <dmoc@primenet.com> wrote:< > Peter, frankly, I don't think Nick would recognize the ARM1 > architecture if it shoved its Thumb up his ....   K That's a horrible pun, and in any case the regular sniping in this group is(B annoying even me... which means it has to be pretty dashed bad. :)   -- eO I've seen things you people can't imagine. Chimneysweeps on fire over the roofsbO of London. I've watched kite-strings glitter in the sun at Hyde Park Gate.  AllaL these things will be lost in time, like chalk-paintings in the rain.   `-_-'K Time for your nap.  | Peter da Silva | Har du kramat din varg, idag?    'U`    ------------------------------    Date: 18 Jul 2002 08:46:40 -0700, From: mcbill20@hotmail.com (Bill McLaughlin) Subject: Re: MQSeriesa= Message-ID: <e9cbc4f2.0207180746.3194dd45@posting.google.com>o  a "Marc Van Dyck" <marc.vandyck@brutele.be> wrote in message news:<ah4hd1$mk9$1@news.brutele.be>...h6 > If I remember well the days when I was writing code,0 > when you need an EF, you call LIB$GET_EF which9 > will return to you the number of an EF that is not used 8 > by anyone else. Of course, for that method to be safe,4 > everyone must use it (and also LIB$FREE_EF to free8 > the EF when you don't need it anymore). I suspect your: > application's code doesn't use it, and MQSeries probably< > neither. That's a serious breach of the rules explained in > the OpenVMS documentation.  D I can't speak for MQSeries as we definitely don't have their source.@ However, the main problem is that the event flags being used areF *common*, not local. Our code calls sys$ascefc to associate the commonE event flag cluster with the name we assign and then the code uses theeF flags within this cluster. Unfortunately, when the first call to MQ isF made, the MQ routine does *another* call to sys$ascefc and proceeds toB reassign the cluster and then to use the event flags. I eventuallyD found what was going on by poking around in SDA and I found that theD name of the cluster would change as soon as the first MQ routine was called.h  2 Unfortunately, I don't believe there is any way to2 programmatically(sp?) tell if a cluster is in use.     Bill McLaughlin4   >  > Marc > ; > "Bill McLaughlin" <mcbill20@hotmail.com> wrote in message 9 > news:e9cbc4f2.0207161255.5c07df6b@posting.google.com...v; > > "Jakob Erber" <erberj@yahoo.de_nospam> wrote in messager+ >  news:<3d3327a6$1@news.swissonline.ch>...e > > > Hello, > > >sN > > > is there somebody out there, who is using MQSeries from IBM for VMS AXP?A > > > I would be glad to hear about expriences with this product.O > > >w
 > > > regardsr > > >m > > > Jakob Erberu > >oH > > We use the MQ client on Alpha VMS systems, with the server hosted onH > > AIX systems. Overall, the product is not bad. One thing to watch outI > > for that got us is their use of common event flags. Some of our older I > > software was using common event flag cluster 2 and MQSeries also usesrH > > this cluster. Shortly after installing MQSeries and using it in someH > > of the code, our software would develop mysterious hangs. After manyH > > conversations with IBM, they admitted that they were using cluster 2J > > but had not documented it. Once we changed our old code to use clusterG > > 3 the problems went away. The only other complaint I have is fairlysC > > minor one-- just like with Oracle, it's often difficult to find - > > someone at IBM that is familiar with VMS.r > >, > > Regards, > >  > > Bill McLaughlinh   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2002 11:43:15 -0400 - From: Jonathan Boswell <jsb@ost.cdrh.fda.gov>rU Subject: Multifunction PCI adapters.  Was: DS10L Feedback - more for the pickin' ! !!10 Message-ID: <3D36E213.A5B6824C@ost.cdrh.fda.gov>   Hoff Hoffman wrote:tK >   slot.  (There are multifunction PCI cards, the 3X-DEPVZ-AA provides LVDdB >   SCSI, 2D graphics, and a 10/100 network connection, available.  M WooHOO! (:-) I didn't see that little darling before.  Will it function in myeM AlphaStation 200 4/233 in place of the existing graphics adapter?  If so, the O only thing more I could hope for is cluster-qualification on the SCSI bus part.    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2002 12:17:13 +0200g9 From: Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com>s< Subject: Re: need help: ODBC driver for rdb on OpenVMS Alpha' Message-ID: <3D3695A9.1804FB48@aaa.com>i   Hi.n Just a few notes...o  D - The SQL/Services kit can be installed, started and stopped without%   disturbing the Rdb database server..  C - There is no specific license for SQL/Services and the kits are (I  think)   on the Oracle website.  E - The "timeout for an inactive telnet session", what's that ? I don'tl know&   of any timeout in the telnet server.  F Oh, and about the "any expert should know Rdb" phrase. What I ment was thatH Rdb is so VMS-like (command structure, online HELP, manual structure and so on)B so any VMS "expert" should have no problem learning the basics and finding hisx way through it.k  , And who have been DBA'ing the Rdb database ?H If the application have been running for years without a DBA, well, that saysF a lot about the quality and stability of Rdb (and VMS), doesn't it :-)   Jan-Erik Sderholm.s   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2002 13:02:20 +0100tU From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <andrew_nospam.harrison_remove_this@sun#.com>-4 Subject: Re: Only 20% drop in VMS systems (was: wow)0 Message-ID: <ah6aod$6eq$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   jlsue wrote:  H > On Wed, 10 Jul 2002 18:05:04 GMT, "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> > wrote: >  > " >>I've in no way asserted that SMPJ >>*substitutes* for clustering in terms of availability, just that *withinM >>whatever availability constraints exist* (e.g., that might require at leasteJ >>two clustered systems plus whatever additional systems one might need toN >>keep performance acceptable should one fail) larger individual cluster nodesG >>are usually preferable to greater numbers of smaller cluster nodes.  a >> > F > Well, I have several points of experience that contradict this view.; > There have been quite a few environments where small, VMStC > workstation-based clusters of 15-20 nodes out-performed a single,bF > large, SMP-based solution, and did it at a much, much lower cost and > higher availability. > A > For example, a VAXstation Model 90, fully configured with 128MBiE > memory, FDDI card, and unlimited openvms user licenses could be hadoH > for less than $50K back in the early 1990s.  And the license units forG > layered products was 10 (or 20) units.  This CPU was similar to a VAXgG > 4000-610 system with a license rating of 1200 units and costing abouto
 > 8X as much.t > F > We'd cluster these together with AlphaServer 3000-800s that 'served'; > the disks to the cluster.  All connected to a gigaswitch.s > F > Performance was phenomenal, availability was fantastic, and cost was > amazingly low. >  >     : Right so what was the workload, you are great at this kind9 of "reference" which does not have enough information for > anyone to make an informed judgment but less good at providing the full deck.  @ And why would license units be a direct measure of performance ?   Regardsy Andrew Harrison,       > \ 3 > Not speaking for anyone, certainly not DEC/Compaq / > (get rid of the xxxz in my address to e-mail)o >    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2002 13:31:34 +0100,U From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <andrew_nospam.harrison_remove_this@sun#.com> 4 Subject: Re: Only 20% drop in VMS systems (was: wow)0 Message-ID: <ah6cf6$6vi$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   jlsue wrote:  G > On Wed, 10 Jul 2002 18:42:40 +0100, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancyn6 > <andrew_nospam.harrison_remove_this@sun#.com> wrote: >  >  >> >>jlsue wrote: >> >>H >>>On Tue, 09 Jul 2002 19:23:18 +0100, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy7 >>><andrew_nospam.harrison_remove_this@sun#.com> wrote:c >>>. >>>. >>>e >>>w >>>>1.  5 >>>>You need to be specially trained to manage an OPSt6 >>>>	environment for starters, this might in itself be3 >>>>	a hint to you that managing an OPS cluster hasm8 >>>>	additional skill requirements to a single instance. >>>> >>>>C >>>I think you overstate the complexities involved.  Sure, there islF >>>additional training, so what?  Every time you get a new version youB >>>need some bit of training for the changes/new features as well., >>>And it's not as if there are no benefits. >>>D >>>4 >>- >>Come on you must understand the difference.e >>1 >>There is an Oracle 8i DBA course or a 9i courser< >>and then once you have done that if you want to administerC >>a OPS or RAC cluster there is a 8i OPS course or a 9i RAC course.0 >>1 >>Its an additional layer that you have to learn._ >> > F > Hmm... Don't see how anything I said above contracticts what  you'veF > said.  Training is part of the package for any of this, and there isG > little-to-no difference whether this training is for new versions, oreH > for an add-on that provides more features.  I've been through trainingC > in both cases.... most intelligent folks wouldn't have a problem,b > imho.d >  >  >>C >>>It's a trade-off.  Many, many customers find the availabilty anddE >>>scalability features of VMSclustering far outweigh this complexity # >>>that you keep spouting on about.  >>>g >>>l >>C >>Get back to the point, Kerrys claim is that from a DBA standpointeD >>tuning and running a DBMS on a large SMP system is as difficult as2 >>tuning and running a DBMS on a cluster of nodes. >>> >>This is BS and no DBA will support his claim as we all know. >> >> > B > As I detail below, very little tuning has ever been needed in myG > environments.  SGA sizes were the most common piece that needed to be B > modified - other than that, it was typically related to keys notG > existing where they needed to be.  And OPS did not make that any more 
 > complex. >  >  >>>>2.  7 >>>>Tuning is very different, in addition to the normals6 >>>>	tuning issues of data placement etc you also need6 >>>>	to consider partitioning data, something that you7 >>>>	may do on an SMP system but for different reasons.  >>>> >>>>G >>>What?  Well, none of this was true in the VMSclusters I ran that hadiG >>>Oracle clustered on them.  Tuning consisted of merely making the SGAiE >>>as large as we wanted to reduce real I/O to disk, and there was NO ) >>>need whatsoever to partition the data.  >>>r >>>o >>C >>Really, so what was your scalability, did the DBMS deliver 2x thea: >>thoughput on two nodes when compared with one node ????? >>? >>I have been responsible for OPS clusters on Solaris which arew@ >>based on OPS to provide very high reliability, not scalability= >>no tuning for it but then it wasn't the reason that OPS wasc
 >>being used.t >> >> > H > Well, scalability is only one measurement.  To tell the truth, I can'tG > recall the scalability on these apps, but I do know that it wasn't an(E > issue, or the managers wouldn't have kept supporting it with budgetrG > dollars.  But as I stated earlier, it's all a trade-off between cost,)C > speed, and reliability.  You can pick any two, but not all three.- >     < Since this discussion is about scalability it seems odd that; you would have bothered contributing since you don't appeare2 to remember whether your point is relevant at all.     >  >>>>3. r6 >>>>There are financial penalties for using OPS, which7 >>>>	any administrator in his/hers right mind will need  >>>>	to consider.C >>>> >>>>I >>>Sure, as well as the financial penalties of increasing the size of the.F >>>single server when other apps on the same server grow.  I know thisG >>>one from experience.  Oracle apps remained constant, other apps wereeH >>>growing, requiring a server upgrade, which meant over $250K (USD) for) >>>Oracle upgrades we really didn't need.w >>>M >>>k >>: >>Nope sorry. Learn your charging model before responding. >>< >>Oracle charge on a per CPU basis, so my 32 CPU server will: >>cost 32x the price of a single CPU system. Then they add= >>OPS on top. So is you have 2 x 16 CPU nodes you get chargedg2 >>the standard 32 CPU charge plus the cost of OPS. >>[snip...]o >>9 >>The deal looks even worse when you realise that current ; >>large GS boxes deliver less throughput per CPU than Sun'sa; >>and in a cluster will not unless we are talking somethingE@ >>like TPC-C deliver linear or even remotely linear scalability. >>7 >>The best case ratio which is if you don't have volume1; >>deal and are buying per CPU puts a cluster being used forn; >>scalability at more than 2x the Oracle licensing costs toD9 >>get the same throughput. And that ignores the increasedh >>TCO of the clustered option. >> >> > B > This isn't all based on facts.  TCO takes many, many things intoB > account.  And availability does provide value to most apps.  AndG > whether a single GS box delivers less throughput or not (and I do notnF > believe this is true in the environments I've work in), if the totalH > cost of the hardware to provide equal-or-better throughput is the sameE > as the single-server model, then so what?  In the environments I'veMB > worked in , clustering did NOT increase the management costs anyH > appreciable amount, and the value of availability certainly outweighed > that cost. >     A Which bit did you actually disagree with, you will recollect thata> you, Kerry et al have all failed to provide data that counters> my 2-3 320's to one F15000 points. Or the points about GS320's# delivering less throughput per CPU.   F If you have examples of like for like publically available performanceA data that prove your point then produce it otherwise what you are0 suggesting is pure conjecture.  A I also have no doubt that managing a cluster using staff equippedrA with no training but with a copy of OpenVMS Clusters/OPS Clustersn@ for dummies in snuggly in their back pocket is cheap, however asA you know most people prefer their staff to be properly trained or A to have extensive experience both of which you end up paying for.e  B It is also apparent from you subsequent posts that your experienceD does not extend to having to configure and tune apps for scalabilityE in a cluster, just to be highly available. This discussion however is,= about the costs of getting apps to scale in SMP and Clustered.> environments so while your information might have been usefull' in some other context it isn't in this.h     >  >> >>>>4. e9 >>>>Your storage requirements are entirely different, youn; >>>>	now need a shared storage subsystem rather than singleu >>>>	host attach.u >>>> >>>>E >>>Not a problem.  It's completely transparent in my VMSclusters.  IniG >>>fact, when these customers see how other servers & clusters work wrt  >>>storage, they cringe. >>>n >>>o >>A >>You seem to miss the point again, the best and cheapest storage B >>for a datawarehouse is often JBOD drives, the read-ahead caching# >>in a array just gets in the way.   >> > E > No, JBOD drives INCREASE the management, tuning, and administration H > costs for systems, and especially for Oracle databases.  An enterpriseE > storage configuration (a.la. Cpq/hp EVA subsystems) actually lowershF > this tuning and administration cost because the hardware manages theH > stastical load balancing rather than the DBA.  This is a tough one forH > DBAs to get past:  Many of the ones I've dealt with have spent so muchH > time and effort managing table spaces on spindles that it is difficultH > for them to give up.  But it's just not necessary anymore when all I/O* > can be spread over hundreds of spindles. >     = BS, A RAID array doesn't manage storage, it provides you with = an interface that allows you to manage the storage. With JBODp= drives you have a host based volume manager which you need toi> configure for mirroring, stripes, stripe size etc, you have toA do exactly the same thing on a RAID array using its configuration ; manager, the LUN's don't just create themselves and presentC themselves.   > The tuning and administration buttons you have to push, stripe> width, interleave etc are just the same using JBOD as hardware@ RAID, which in addition may require you to play with the caching? as well which in any case for most DW apps has a tendancy to be # more of a hinderance than an asset.f  = In addition if you want multi-pathing you need to manage thate@ at the host, something you don't need for mirrored striped JBOD.  = Not one of your best efforts at a technical response you must  try harder.e     >  >  >>If you don't want a HAC >>datawarehouse system and a lot of people don't then clustering to C >>get scalability for DW will increase your storage costs, you need , >>dual pathing etc and reduce your choices.  >> > D > Clustering will not provide scalability for all apps.  However, in@ > many, many application workloads, we can configure the clusterD > activity to stastically balance among servers in a sort-of-similarH > fashion to the I/O spread used in disk arrays.  I've done it.  Does itB > work for large, long-running batch jobs... well, yes and no.  It > depends on lots of things. >     = But then the specific discussion is one about the scalabilityrB of clusters, SMP boxes and the relative ease of getting it in both> environments. The fact that you are uncertain that clusters do> deliver scalability in the terms Kerry was describing suggestsA that you should have an offline discussion with him and come back ! with a more coeherant party line.i     >  >>All drives/arrays withinD >>reason can be connected to a single system subsets of this can be F >>connected to clusters. Compaqs own clustered TPC-H number for ES45'sB >>shows this with a relatively complex switch/array infrastructureB >>imposed by a need to have connectivity from all the nodes in the >>cluster to all the storage.d >> > G > Well, VMSclusters had shared storage with CI technology over 15 yearssH > ago.  This was NOT a "relatively complex switch/array infrastructure".H > It may have been pricey, but at the time it was the only game in town,G > so it's kind of a cheap shot to call it "costly" when there's nothinge > else to compare. >     B But this has as you know been largely been replaced by FC which is= a realtively complex switched infrastructure so your point isw hardly relevant is it.       >>I >>>Support/Schmupport.  You'd never imagine how many times vendors try tosI >>>pull that crap.  If problems occur with software, it's a simple matterlH >>>to reproduce the problem with only one server running the app... thatE >>>shuts the vendor up as far as finger-pointing goes.  Rarely, and IiG >>>mean RARELY (as in, never in 17 years) have I had a problem that was  >>>cluster-specific. >>>d >>>  >>D >>Akk, and you are customer facing, you would propose, configure andD >>install a platform to host an application that wasn't qualified or >>supported for that platform. >>  H > However, not all customers who I deal with today, as a consultant, areF > as concerned that each and every thing they do has complete blessingH > from a vendor.  As a consultant, it's my job to inform them the limitsG > to which they can expect support, and if they choose to go outside ofrH > that environment, then I can help them understand the trade-offs.  AndA > if they choose to continue unsupported, I can help them develope: > operating disciplines that address their business needs. >     . Blimey you really are a consultant arn't you !  E Do you tell them that the platform solution you have proposed to themh: is what is forcing them to consider a unsupported solution' as far as the apps vendor is concerned.     G > This does not mean that any unsupported option is good.  But one must H > understand the risks and implications before one can determine what isE > reasonable, and also fully realize what assuming that risk in-houseg > really means.l > ; > For example, we write many, many scripts to do day-to-dayiC > administrative functions.  These are "unsupported" by any vendor.fD > However, all system administrators do this regularly.  If problemsH > crop us, we take the responsibility to support them to the extend thatA > the issues are not related to bugs in vendor-supplied software.o >     ; This is rather different from say configuring say a clustere; of DBMS servers to support an application which is a configl+ that the ISV specifically does not support.S     > H >>>If the vendor's software works in a cluster at all (i.e., they didn't< >>>pull some real bone-headed programming mistakes) then anyF >>>cluster-related problems are not usually related to their software,
 >>>per se. >>>. >>>B >>C >>So even the risk of this happening would not stop you proposing abB >>cluster without having the vendors apps qualified for a cluster. >> > F > You have no idea how I develop or make proposals.  Don't jump so farG > without knowing what you're talking about.  When I make a proposal ortC > recommendation, it includes solutions that I know from first-hand 
 > experience.  >     3 No I don't but I am beginning to get an idea :):):)      Or rather ):):):):     Regards(   Andrew Harrisono   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2002 10:31:55 +0100o( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1>9 Subject: Re: OpenVMS mentioned by HP in Itanium 2 article ) Message-ID: <3D368B0B.B0192F2C@127.0.0.1>n   "David J. Dachtera" wrote: >  > Kenneth Farmer wrote:  > >u5 > > CW360: Software that will run on 64-bit Itanium 2  > >r= > > http://www.openvms.org/stories.php?story=02/07/17/92495461 > 0 > The full article seems to be subscribers only.  F The site regularly crashes by browser, but here's a cut/paste, massage- in EDT and finally here for your delectation:g    * Software that will run on 64-bit Itanium 2   Tuesday 9 July 2002   F A number of major hardware suppliers are working on Itanium 2 versionsB of their products, which promise to boost application performance.A However for any improvements to be seen, software will need to bel rewritten for 64-bit.s  C The Itanium 2 processor, like the Reduced Instruction Set ComputingaD (Risc) chips it will compete with, is a 64-bit processor, meaning it1 can address data in chunks that are 64 bits wide.s  ? The chips process roughly twice as much data and address largerdD amounts of memory than Intel's 32-bit Pentium 4 and Xeon processors,? making Itanium 2 suitable for running large databases and othere enterprise applications.  A However the new processor design means that software vendors mustPE rewrite operating systems and applications in order to take advantagea' of the increased performance available.o  F ERP giant SAP anticipates some of its supply chain management products? could benefit from the additional memory provided by the 64-bit E platform. The software can make use of an "in-memory database", where1F all the data required by the application is stored directly in memory,, rather than on disc, to improve performance.  D The same is true with Baan, which can take advantage of the extendedD memory within the planning and scheduler modules of its supply chain
 applications.s  & Software support for 64-bit Itanium 2:  E Microsoft - is offering a commercial version of Windows for the firstoA Itanium chip last year, and later this month will deliver WindowswB Advanced Server Limited Edition 2.1, which is tuned for Itanium 2.D When the Windows .net Server products ship, two 64-bit versions willF be offered for Itanium 2 - Windows .net Enterprise Server, for systemsD with up to eight processors and 64Gbytes of memory, and Windows .netE Datacenter Server, for systems with up to 64 processors and 128Gbytes-D of memory. Microsoft also expects to release a 64-bit version of itsA SQL Server database at the same time as the .net Server family, at> Microsoft spokeswoman said; that product is currently in beta.  C Hewlett-Packard - announced the availability of its HP-UX operating ; system for Itanium 2, along with versions of Windows Server = Management, Linux Server Management, and its OpenView systemsr@ management products. Versions of its OpenVMS and Non Stop Kernel5 operating systems are in the works, the company said.n  A Linux - Red Hat Software, SuSE Linux, TurboLinux, Caldera and MSC B Software have all released versions of their open source operating systems for Itanium 2.  @ IBM - built a version of its DB2 database for Itanium last year,A running on Linux and Windows systems. It is now offering the samee product for Itanium 2.  E Oracle - produced a developer version of its 9i database for the chipa@ last year, although it has yet to offer a commercial product. ItC expects to have a production release of Oracle9i database available C for Itanium 2 by the end of November, for Windows, Linux and HP-UX.o  E BEA Systems - plans to have a version of its application server readyoE for Itanium 2 by the end of the year for HP-UX, Linux and Windows. It E is also tuning its recently acquired JRocket Java Virtual machine for 
 Itanium 2.  C SAP - announced its first customer using SAP R/3 on Itanium at thisDB year's CeBit trade show in March and plans to have some of its ERPF products available for Itanium 2 later this year. It hopes to offer anD Itanium 2 version of its supply chain management software by the end of the third quarter.i  E Baan - has tuned some of its enterprise applications for Itanium, buti? believes not all of them will benefit from the new chip design.   0 Reprinted without permission from www.cw360.com. [EOB]i   -- d? Regards, Nic Clews a.k.a. Mr. CP Charges, CSC Computer Sciencesl nclews at csc dot comp   ------------------------------    Date: 18 Jul 2002 06:44:06 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)a9 Subject: Re: OpenVMS mentioned by HP in Itanium 2 article 3 Message-ID: <vPVRFKg7AWUy@eisner.encompasserve.org>>  T In article <3D368B0B.B0192F2C@127.0.0.1>, Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1> writes:  H > The site regularly crashes by browser, but here's a cut/paste, massage/ > in EDT and finally here for your delectation:o >  > , > Software that will run on 64-bit Itanium 2 >  > Tuesday 9 July 2002i > H > A number of major hardware suppliers are working on Itanium 2 versionsD > of their products, which promise to boost application performance.C > However for any improvements to be seen, software will need to be  > rewritten for 64-bit.a > E > The Itanium 2 processor, like the Reduced Instruction Set ComputingsF > (Risc) chips it will compete with, is a 64-bit processor, meaning it3 > can address data in chunks that are 64 bits wide.g  A Well, that rules out technical folks reading any further, but theu9 audience we want for VMS information is managers, right ?t   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2002 12:42:04 GMTi, From: "Kenneth Farmer" <kfarmer@openvms.org>9 Subject: Re: OpenVMS mentioned by HP in Itanium 2 articlea: Message-ID: <wIyZ8.556$xj6.71146@twister.southeast.rr.com>  5 "Nic Clews" <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1> wrote in messagea# news:3D368B0B.B0192F2C@127.0.0.1...t > "David J. Dachtera" wrote: > >> > > Kenneth Farmer wrote:  > > >c7 > > > CW360: Software that will run on 64-bit Itanium 2c > > > ? > > > http://www.openvms.org/stories.php?story=02/07/17/9249546t > > 2 > > The full article seems to be subscribers only. >iH > The site regularly crashes by browser, but here's a cut/paste, massage/ > in EDT and finally here for your delectation:n  - OpenVMS.org regularly crashes your browser?!?    Kens   --   Kenneth Farmer http://www.Tru64.org http://www.OpenVMS.org http://www.LinuxHPC.orgd   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2002 05:53:20 -0700># From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com>t9 Subject: RE: OpenVMS mentioned by HP in Itanium 2 articles9 Message-ID: <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIEEJGFGAA.tom@kednos.com>S   >-----Original Message-----e2 >From: Kenneth Farmer [mailto:kfarmer@openvms.org]& >Sent: Thursday, July 18, 2002 5:42 AM >To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com: >Subject: Re: OpenVMS mentioned by HP in Itanium 2 article >e >>6 >"Nic Clews" <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1> wrote in message$ >news:3D368B0B.B0192F2C@127.0.0.1... >> "David J. Dachtera" wrote:k >> > >> > Kenneth Farmer wrote: >> > >8 >> > > CW360: Software that will run on 64-bit Itanium 2 >> > >@ >> > > http://www.openvms.org/stories.php?story=02/07/17/9249546 >> >3 >> > The full article seems to be subscribers only.o >>I >> The site regularly crashes by browser, but here's a cut/paste, massagei0 >> in EDT and finally here for your delectation: >i. >OpenVMS.org regularly crashes your browser?!?  E I had no problem, maybe I'll try it again, just to see.  I use Opera.  >k >Ken >h >--  >i >Kenneth Farmerl >http://www.Tru64.orgl >http://www.OpenVMS.org> >http://www.LinuxHPC.org >i >o >---' >Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. ; >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).n@ >Version: 6.0.373 / Virus Database: 208 - Release Date: 7/1/2002 >a ---o& Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.: Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).? Version: 6.0.373 / Virus Database: 208 - Release Date: 7/1/2002    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2002 14:22:39 +0100h( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1>9 Subject: Re: OpenVMS mentioned by HP in Itanium 2 articlel) Message-ID: <3D36C11F.29FD58DD@127.0.0.1>r   Kenneth Farmer wrote:  > 7 > "Nic Clews" <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1> wrote in messagei% > news:3D368B0B.B0192F2C@127.0.0.1...g > > "David J. Dachtera" wrote: > > >a > > > Kenneth Farmer wrote:  > > > > 9 > > > > CW360: Software that will run on 64-bit Itanium 2  > > > > A > > > > http://www.openvms.org/stories.php?story=02/07/17/9249546y > > >h4 > > > The full article seems to be subscribers only. > >tJ > > The site regularly crashes by browser, but here's a cut/paste, massage1 > > in EDT and finally here for your delectation:  > / > OpenVMS.org regularly crashes your browser?!?r   Course not!d  E No, the CW360 site. It takes ages to load, incorrectly overlays popuphF java windows (so I can't read the main text), slows the PC to a crawl,' and occasionally takes out the browser.O  F I guess it works in IE5, but I would not know. I refuse to be told howG and with what _I_ should view  someone's sight. (sic and pun intended).    --  ? Regards, Nic Clews a.k.a. Mr. CP Charges, CSC Computer Sciencesi nclews at csc dot comu   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2002 14:44:02 GMTi, From: "Kenneth Farmer" <kfarmer@openvms.org>9 Subject: Re: OpenVMS mentioned by HP in Itanium 2 article,: Message-ID: <SuAZ8.575$xj6.81791@twister.southeast.rr.com>   ----- Original Message -----* From: "Nic Clews" <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1> Newsgroups: comp.os.vmsi% Sent: Thursday, July 18, 2002 9:22 AMr9 Subject: Re: OpenVMS mentioned by HP in Itanium 2 articlew     > Kenneth Farmer wrote:t > >t9 > > "Nic Clews" <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1> wrote in messagep' > > news:3D368B0B.B0192F2C@127.0.0.1...y  > > > "David J. Dachtera" wrote: > > > >t > > > > Kenneth Farmer wrote:l	 > > > > > ; > > > > > CW360: Software that will run on 64-bit Itanium 2 	 > > > > >iC > > > > > http://www.openvms.org/stories.php?story=02/07/17/9249546t > > > >r6 > > > > The full article seems to be subscribers only. > > >.L > > > The site regularly crashes by browser, but here's a cut/paste, massage3 > > > in EDT and finally here for your delectation:d > >s1 > > OpenVMS.org regularly crashes your browser?!?C >h
 > Course not!s >cG > No, the CW360 site. It takes ages to load, incorrectly overlays popupeH > java windows (so I can't read the main text), slows the PC to a crawl,) > and occasionally takes out the browser.t >oH > I guess it works in IE5, but I would not know. I refuse to be told howI > and with what _I_ should view  someone's sight. (sic and pun intended).s  L Wew!  Good.  If anyone ever has problems be sure to let me know.  We aims to please!  :)    Kena     --   Kenneth Farmer http://www.Tru64.org http://www.OpenVMS.org http://www.LinuxHPC.orgo   ------------------------------    Date: 18 Jul 2002 12:43:03 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)t9 Subject: Re: OpenVMS mentioned by HP in Itanium 2 articleR3 Message-ID: <LAFR3ufXKNYK@eisner.encompasserve.org>s  i In article <SuAZ8.575$xj6.81791@twister.southeast.rr.com>, "Kenneth Farmer" <kfarmer@openvms.org> writes:  > ----- Original Message -----, > From: "Nic Clews" <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1> > Newsgroups: comp.os.vms ' > Sent: Thursday, July 18, 2002 9:22 AMw; > Subject: Re: OpenVMS mentioned by HP in Itanium 2 article  >  >  >> Kenneth Farmer wrote:  2 >> > OpenVMS.org regularly crashes your browser?!? >> >> Course not! >>H >> No, the CW360 site. It takes ages to load, incorrectly overlays popupI >> java windows (so I can't read the main text), slows the PC to a crawl, * >> and occasionally takes out the browser. >>I >> I guess it works in IE5, but I would not know. I refuse to be told howlJ >> and with what _I_ should view  someone's sight. (sic and pun intended). > N > Wew!  Good.  If anyone ever has problems be sure to let me know.  We aims to
 > please!  :)a  H Well, now we know that Ken does not really read comp.os.vms if he thinks4 that people would suffer such a problem silently :-)   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2002 11:46:30 -0600k From: Kevin Handy <kth@srv.net>b  Subject: Power Supply for a DS10& Message-ID: <3D36FEF6.1070302@srv.net>  5 Is there anywhere I could by a new power supply for af4 DS10 Alpha box? Does anyone know the part number for the power supply?m  6 I've tried email to several companies selling alpha's,4 and have received absolutely no response from any of them.    ------------------------------    Date: 18 Jul 2002 07:59:14 -0600- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) ! Subject: Re: Removing Q-Bus Cardsb3 Message-ID: <OnEg8itEShdW@eisner.encompasserve.org>   Z In article <3D36329D.1030803@uiowa.edu>, "Richard L. Dyson" <rick-dyson@uiowa.edu> writes: > M > If I have an unused board in a VAXServer 4000-300 running VMS v5.5-2 in oneiJ > of the Q-Bus slots and I want to remove it for other uses, can I just doL > this without any modifications to the VAX configurations?  The board is inN > the "middle" with boards to it's left and right (though not in the immediate
 > left slot).t  H    No.  It's easiest to move all the boards toward the CPU so that thereG    is no empty slot, but if you have a flip chip you can insert that to     eliminate the empty slot.  @ > I am focusing on an old CMXY-8 serial port board at this time.  F    You almosy certainly will have to re-arrange floating address spaceE    on the Qbus if you remove a serial board.  Not a trivial exersize.l   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2002 14:59:34 +0200 E From: Jan C. =?iso-8859-1?Q?Vorbr=FCggen?= <jvorbrueggen@mediasec.de>s! Subject: Re: Removing Q-Bus Cards-+ Message-ID: <3D36BBB6.F2047B5C@mediasec.de>Y   Two issues:i  L - If this isn't the last card in the chain, you need a grant continuity cardB   which chains the bus request/grant lines through the empty slot.H - As Malmberg wrote, use some SYSGEN commands to see whether any CSRs orH   interrupt vectors need changing. Removing one card can result in _all_H   other cards needing pulling and re-jumpering, or some of them, or none@   (depends on the devices you have). Not for the faint of heart.   	Jan   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2002 09:53:28 -0400 2 From: Atlant Schmidt <atlantnospam@mindspring.com>! Subject: Re: Removing Q-Bus Cardsh. Message-ID: <3D36C858.63806B32@mindspring.com>   Bob Koehler wrote:  J >    No.  It's easiest to move all the boards toward the CPU so that thereI >    is no empty slot, but if you have a flip chip you can insert that tot >    eliminate the empty slot.  4 That depends on whether you're removing a quad-sized3 (four sets of connector fingers) or dual-sized (twos1 sets of conector fingers) module and what modulesu4 you have to move up to fill the gap. Frequently, the6 "bus grant continuity card" is a much easier solution.  3 And don't forget that if you are forced to re-ordert9 modules on the bus in order to maintain grant continuity, 9 that can shift the relative interrupt and DMA priorities.e7 For most folks, that won't matter, but for a few folks,o it might matter a great deal.s  6 Personally, if I had a system that was running now and5 I didn't have a darned-good reason to mess with it, I 2 wouldn't! There's too much chance of any number of bad things happening including:d  4   1. Damaging cables as you plug and unplug modules,  5   2. Causing the 12 mm of collected dust to fall intot      the backplane connectors,  3   3. Accidentally changing DIP switches as you plugc       and unplug modules, andt  7   4. Screwing up the deliberate resetting of all of thea7      DIP switches for the devices that you will have too       "move up"*.>  3 (And I say this as the DEC engineer who was, at onep: point, officially in charge of the administering the whole5 Unibus/Q-bus floating adress/floating vector mess. If 2 you're into Computer Archaeology, you could dig up2 the DECUS presentation that I used to give on this topic.)u   Atlant    3 * Remember the DL11-W? Remember the 56 DIP switchesi2   on the DL11-W? Remember how at least some DL11-W9   modules didn't use the "recessed" type of DIP switches? ;   Remember the feeling you'd get after you had just spent a-9   while flipping all 56 switches, but when you pushed the1:   module back into the backplane, you heard the "click" of7   one DIP switch being changed by contact a cable or ans   adjacent module?   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2002 11:20:44 -0400e! From: Jim Agnew <jpagnew@vcu.edu>w! Subject: Re: Removing Q-Bus Cards ' Message-ID: <3D36DCCC.8D9DDC36@vcu.edu>o  D I remember well the DLV-11J cards I used to have to wire-wrap to set baud rates.......l  	 Jim Agnewb   Atlant Schmidt wrote:u >  > Bob Koehler wrote: > L > >    No.  It's easiest to move all the boards toward the CPU so that thereK > >    is no empty slot, but if you have a flip chip you can insert that toi  > >    eliminate the empty slot. > 6 > That depends on whether you're removing a quad-sized5 > (four sets of connector fingers) or dual-sized (twon3 > sets of conector fingers) module and what modulesr6 > you have to move up to fill the gap. Frequently, the8 > "bus grant continuity card" is a much easier solution. > 5 > And don't forget that if you are forced to re-orders; > modules on the bus in order to maintain grant continuity,l; > that can shift the relative interrupt and DMA priorities.e9 > For most folks, that won't matter, but for a few folks,  > it might matter a great deal.a > 8 > Personally, if I had a system that was running now and7 > I didn't have a darned-good reason to mess with it, Ic4 > wouldn't! There's too much chance of any number of! > bad things happening including:  > 6 >   1. Damaging cables as you plug and unplug modules, > 7 >   2. Causing the 12 mm of collected dust to fall into-  >      the backplane connectors, > 5 >   3. Accidentally changing DIP switches as you plugq >       and unplug modules, andd > 9 >   4. Screwing up the deliberate resetting of all of thec9 >      DIP switches for the devices that you will have too >       "move up"*.y > 5 > (And I say this as the DEC engineer who was, at onea< > point, officially in charge of the administering the whole7 > Unibus/Q-bus floating adress/floating vector mess. If 4 > you're into Computer Archaeology, you could dig up4 > the DECUS presentation that I used to give on this	 > topic.), >  > Atlant > 5 > * Remember the DL11-W? Remember the 56 DIP switchesp4 >   on the DL11-W? Remember how at least some DL11-W; >   modules didn't use the "recessed" type of DIP switches?t= >   Remember the feeling you'd get after you had just spent ar; >   while flipping all 56 switches, but when you pushed the < >   module back into the backplane, you heard the "click" of9 >   one DIP switch being changed by contact a cable or anr >   adjacent module?   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2002 09:21:44 +0100 % From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>UY Subject: Re: StorageWorks HSG controllers, do you use STEAM agents or the   Management Apu8 Message-ID: <uhucju0bj4uor3onj3sf5c0icardv93nvn@4ax.com>  5 On Thu, 18 Jul 2002 01:09:53 GMT, "David J. Dachtera"p <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote:   >Marc Van Dyck wrote:i >>  B >> For all what we have tried, the simplest and most efficient wayA >> to control, configure and monitor an HSZ/HSG is still the good C >> old serial console, connected to a terminal server and monitoredu >> by Console Manager. >> x: >> The new HSV, however, won't have a console line anymore> >> (a very bad decision if you ask me) so SWMA will be a must. >a >No serial console???!!! >a >HP: ARE YOU HIGH???!!!  >e- >WHAT THE HELL ARE THESE PEOPLE SMOKING???!!!r  ? Hey it does have embedded Windows though though so you can lookt forward to that...   >...and where can I get some?  > F >One thing's for sure - they won't be selling as many of those as they$ >could if they hadn't screwed it up!   -- Alan   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2002 12:54:02 +0100 # From: David Webb <d.webb@mdx.ac.uk>oY Subject: Re: StorageWorks HSG controllers, do you use STEAM agents or the  Management Apph( Message-ID: <3D36AC5A.4020007@mdx.ac.uk>   Nic Clews wrote:   > "David J. Dachtera" wrote: >  >>Marc Van Dyck wrote: >>B >>>For all what we have tried, the simplest and most efficient wayA >>>to control, configure and monitor an HSZ/HSG is still the goodIC >>>old serial console, connected to a terminal server and monitored  >>>by Console Manager. >>> : >>>The new HSV, however, won't have a console line anymore> >>>(a very bad decision if you ask me) so SWMA will be a must. >>>o >>No serial console???!!!- >> >>HP: ARE YOU HIGH???!!! >>. >>WHAT THE HELL ARE THESE PEOPLE SMOKING???!!! >> >>...and where can I get some? >>G >>One thing's for sure - they won't be selling as many of those as theym% >>could if they hadn't screwed it up!B >> > F > David, the bad news is the Compaq ENSA stuff was/is moving this way.J > When this stuff was being introduced, the presenter pointed out that theF > serial console you see won't be there in the production items, and aH > regular contributor to this list, did point out and ask if (due to theI > fact it's based on a cut-down MS operating system) when a virus hit it,p > if data would be unavailable.r >     I Probably true since a general virus probably wouldn't contain code which rF would be able to interact with the management commands. But what about= if you got infected with a remote-control trojan - subseven ,  back orifice, netbus etcJ Is access to this cut down MS operating system allowed over the network  ?    
 David Webb VMS and Unix team leader CCSS Middlesex University      H > The answer was, you'd still get to your data, but managing it would be > an issue.  > H > Where's the queue for the smoke? I don't currently, but if it's _that_	 > good...S >  >    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2002 11:38:12 +0100u( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1>Y Subject: Re: StorageWorks HSG controllers, do you use STEAM agents or the Management Appl ) Message-ID: <3D369A94.306A02DF@127.0.0.1>    "David J. Dachtera" wrote: >  > Marc Van Dyck wrote: > > C > > For all what we have tried, the simplest and most efficient way4B > > to control, configure and monitor an HSZ/HSG is still the goodD > > old serial console, connected to a terminal server and monitored > > by Console Manager.r > > ; > > The new HSV, however, won't have a console line anymores? > > (a very bad decision if you ask me) so SWMA will be a must.p >  > No serial console???!!!L >  > HP: ARE YOU HIGH???!!! > . > WHAT THE HELL ARE THESE PEOPLE SMOKING???!!! >  > ...and where can I get some? > G > One thing's for sure - they won't be selling as many of those as they-% > could if they hadn't screwed it up!e  D David, the bad news is the Compaq ENSA stuff was/is moving this way.H When this stuff was being introduced, the presenter pointed out that theD serial console you see won't be there in the production items, and aF regular contributor to this list, did point out and ask if (due to theG fact it's based on a cut-down MS operating system) when a virus hit it,> if data would be unavailable.>  F The answer was, you'd still get to your data, but managing it would be	 an issue./  F Where's the queue for the smoke? I don't currently, but if it's _that_ good...m   --  ? Regards, Nic Clews a.k.a. Mr. CP Charges, CSC Computer Sciences  nclews at csc dot com    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2002 07:27:26 -0700g# From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> 6 Subject: SUMMARY: ODL for Tru64 and OpenVMS on same PC9 Message-ID: <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIEEJJFGAA.tom@kednos.com>h  < Some months ago I posted a query about installing the Online> Documentation Library on a W2K box.  The problem was that when> I installed the Tru64 documentation after having installed the: same for OpenVM, it overwrote it, because of a name clash.  = I have finally received a work-around from HP and it follows.yF This also may be useful to put into the OpenVMS FAQ.  The following is courtesy of Frank Klum.e  - 1 - Load VMS ODL using SETUP.EXE (D:\VMS ODL)-  ; 2 - Use Copy ODL utility to copy VMS ODL books to hard diskn (D:\VMS_ODL_data)>  K When prompted for the destination directory, enter the name of a directory.C It will8@ create this directory, or ask you to overwrite it, if it exists.  E 3 - Manually copy Unix ODL docs to hard disk (D:\UNIX_ODL_data\disk1).  L Create the directory D:\Unix_ODL_data\disk1 then copy the two folders (avscd and L U01Q1) over.  The U01Q1 folder takes a few minutes since it contains all the
 ODL books.   4A - Edit Registry  L HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE -> Software -> Compaq ODL -> Online Documentation LibraryK Edit the String Value ODL_lib to point to the file 'odl_lib.bnu' instead of,
 'odl_lib.qnu'n   4B - Edit Registry some more  D HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE -> Software -> Compaq ODL -> Online Documentation Library -> Releases  Add a Key (folder) named U01Q1  - Inside U01Q1 create a String Value like this:I6 U01Q1_1		[REG_SZ]	D:\Unix_ODL_data\disk1\U01Q1\U01Q1_1  J 5 - Edit the D:\VMS ODL\Releases\AXPDOCMAR01\odl_lib.bnu file and add this line:o  5  SHELF %U01Q1_1/contents.odl Tru64 Unix, January 2001   J %U01Q1_1 will translate to the Registry entry made in step 4B, so the file name listedsH here can really be anything, but it has to exist in that directory.  The stringI following the file name ('Tru64 Unix, January 2001') can also be anythingp you please,u8 but it will show up in BNU as the name of the bookshelf.  J You will note that in the odl_lib.bnu file there is a line for the OpenVMS file and it I has two %'s in front of it.  Leave it that way and only use one % for the  line you are adding here.  > 6 - Edit the D:\Unix_ODL_data\disk1\U01Q1\U01Q1_1\contents.odl  H First thing to do is remove the Read-only attribute on this file, or you will not besI able to save any changes.   Right click on the file and go to Properties.r	 Click off ) the 'Read-only' check box and click 'OK'.   I Each of the 'shelf' lines, except the first one for 'prodlist.odl', has a  reference toJ %1 which points to the directory for the filename that follows.  Since the	 installedcL version of ODL is the OpenVMS one, it translates this %1 to be AXPDOCMAR01_1
 (and if itD found a %2, it would go to AXPDOCMAR01_2.)  Since all our Tru64 Unix documentation is5 in another directory, we need to change this pointer.h  A Simply replace all the '%1' instances with '%U01Q1_1', like this:c   Original entry:o+ 	shelf	%1/odldoc/odldoc.odl	Getting Startedn
 New entry:1 	shelf	%U01Q1_1/odldoc/odldoc.odl	Getting Startedt ---o& Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.: Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).? Version: 6.0.373 / Virus Database: 208 - Release Date: 7/1/2002e   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2002 12:54:25 GMTo8 From: hammond@not@peek.ppb.cpqcorp.net (Charlie Hammond)* Subject: Re: TCPIP/UCX Version Information2 Message-ID: <5UyZ8.12$Ll3.303220@news.cpqcorp.net>  5 In article <ah5g7o$9sp$1@gossamer.itmel.bhp.com.au>, m, "Dale King" <dalek@forpresident.com> writes:  N >Can anyone please provide any clues as to where the tcpip/ucx version and ECOD >level in the output of "$ucx show version" may come from?            I Ah, from the TCP/IP or UCX code that implements the SHOW VERSION command.e  J But the "ECO" contained in the version does not represent any patches that, have been applied.  For this use the command  &     $ PRODUCT SHOW PRODUCT TCPIP /FULL$ or  $ PRODUCT SHOW PRODUCT UCX /FULL  M Patches will show in the "MAINTENANCE" column.  (132 col display recommended)s  C At this point you may be confused because the "Version" reported myv: $UCX SHOW VERSION may differ from $PRODUCT SHOW PRODUCT.    A e.g.  When $TCPIP SHO VERSION returns V5.0A, $PRODUCT SHO PRODUCTeF will return V5.0-10.  This is due to differences in the rules by which, TCP/IP and the PCSI utility format versions.   -- 'K     Charlie Hammond -- Compaq Computer Corporation -- Pompano Beach  FL USAe8                        Compaq is now part of the New HP!H        (hammond@not@peek.ppb.cpqcorp.net -- remove "@not" when replying)J       All opinions expressed are my own and not necessarily my employer's.   ------------------------------    Date: 18 Jul 2002 08:00:43 -0600- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)S* Subject: Re: TCPIP/UCX Version Information3 Message-ID: <zVtGXPFgjn6J@eisner.encompasserve.org>   a In article <ah5g7o$9sp$1@gossamer.itmel.bhp.com.au>, "Dale King" <dalek@forpresident.com> writes:eO > Can anyone please provide any clues as to where the tcpip/ucx version and ECOn; > level in the output of "$ucx show version" may come from?l  C    It's in the program which is run when you enter the ucx command.u    Where else should it be?d   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2002 13:35:31 GMTD. From: peter@langstoeger.at (Peter LANGSTOEGER)* Subject: Re: TCPIP/UCX Version Information3 Message-ID: <DuzZ8.19360$123.601692@news.chello.at>   m In article <5UyZ8.12$Ll3.303220@news.cpqcorp.net>, hammond@not@peek.ppb.cpqcorp.net (Charlie Hammond) writes:dB >e.g.  When $TCPIP SHO VERSION returns V5.0A, $PRODUCT SHO PRODUCTG >will return V5.0-10.  This is due to differences in the rules by whicht- >TCP/IP and the PCSI utility format versions.e  K Close, but no cigar. V5.0A is both, EITHER V5.0-10 (which is on the VMS 7.3iK CD kit and is buggy - eg. endless loop in the TELNET server negotiation) ORnL V5.0-11 (which is unfortunately not called V5.0B and is on the ConDist CDs).  B The ECOs make them V5.0-111 (with ECO 1) to V5.0-114 (with ECO 4).   -- a Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGERa% Network and OpenVMS system specialist- E-mail  peter@langstoeger.atP A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm looking for (a) Network _and_ VMS Job(s)   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2002 15:23:17 +0100C( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1>* Subject: Re: TCPIP/UCX Version Information) Message-ID: <3D36CF55.D13DF833@127.0.0.1>e   Dale King wrote: > O > Can anyone please provide any clues as to where the tcpip/ucx version and ECOe; > level in the output of "$ucx show version" may come from?  >  > Tia, > Dale   $ MCR TCPIP$VERSIONS   or   $ MCR UCX$VERSIONS    (With thanks to 'Windy' Watson!)  0 Actually I think this complicates your question.  = PS. Dale, you could have asked in the daily voice conference!1 --  ? Regards, Nic Clews a.k.a. Mr. CP Charges, CSC Computer Sciencesn nclews at csc dot comm   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2002 09:38:40 -0600o From: Kevin Handy <kth@srv.net>sA Subject: Re: Terminal Emu to MicroVaxII - typed characters effecto& Message-ID: <3D36E100.5020203@srv.net>   Heinz Oswald wrote:tG > "Heinz Oswald" <Heinz.Oswald@gero-computer.de> schrieb im Newsbeitragn+ > news:aguq3p$pue$07$1@news.t-online.com...r >  >>Hello, >>C >>since last week, I became an _operator_ of a MicroVaxII, 630QB-A3  >>D >>The machine was accidentlly _found_ in one of the production hallsK >>of our customer. The only ( ! ) attached VT340 now is at it's end. ( lotst >  > of >  >>black smoke ).9 >>The VAX serves as a controller for a processing center.n4 >>(seems it has been there since years and running ) >  >  > Thanks a lot for the advices.t  > Seems now I came a bit nearer: > = > 1. After the login as an user, it is necessary to issue then< > command "cmd". This starts an application. The application8 > uses ASCII graphics to draw lines and coloured fields.= > I tried ZOC as an alternate emulation, but it provides only.3 > vt220. With this the screen appears really worse.   4 I find Kermit95 usually gives me the best emulation.3 Hyperterminal (which comes with Windows) is a joke.s  : > 2. I removed the old serial cable ( 20 meters long ) and > took a short one ( 1 meter ).e, > About one hour production without effects.  2 Does "no effects" mean the problem is still there?  = Try a different PC/terminal and see if it is your PC with the  problem and not the Vax.  : Usually I find odd problems like this are usually due to a& broken ground wire (pin 7 on a DB-25).  A > Then I switched the selector at the bulkhead from 9600 to 4800.e# > Until now ( 4 hours ) no effects.i > 0 > Maybe the malfunction of the vt340 damaged the > serial interface ?  ; On the MicroVax II motherboard there are two small 8-pin(?)u9 IC's  used to handle the serial port.  VT220's were noted = for burning these out.  Sorry, don't know the numbers off thep: top of my head. Usually resulted in one-way communication.9 Haven't heard of a 340 burning them out, but maybe one of- them is damaged.  @ > 3. Now I am looking for a technician in germany to check that. > Hope I can find one. > 
 > Any hints ?    ------------------------------    Date: 18 Jul 2002 05:43:17 -0700( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)) Subject: Re: VAX to Alpha migration tools = Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0207180443.5870ec74@posting.google.com>N  e "David Pikcilingis" <piks@speakeasy.net> wrote in message news:<ujcb891qack29f@corp.supernews.com>... % > Glad I could help lighten the load!i > = > We see a lot of customers who are moving in that direction.oI > We try our best to give them the tools and user interface they know andd > love.  > C > And then there are those migrating from OpenVMS to Windows.......  >  > Davida > Boston Business Computinga > www.bosbc.comd >   A I think the above poster mentioned vest which means alpha/vms ...e< and vms users aren't stupid enough to follow the rest of the crowd over the cliff ...   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2002 08:25:05 -0400w2 From: Atlant Schmidt <atlantnospam@mindspring.com> Subject: Re: VMS commitmentn. Message-ID: <3D36B3A1.6F07C3C6@mindspring.com>   "Jay E. Morris" wrote:   > > What's COTS ?w > >tM > > btw In german you could pronounce it KOTZ (which means let your breakfastiK > > come back through your head ;-) It reminds me of this, but I doubt that  > > this was meant.1 >m$ > Commercial Off The Shelf software.  = Well, "systems", not just "software". That's the program thatP6 gets you naval destroyers disabled by Windows/NT BSsOD! while claiming to cut your taxes.r   Atlant   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2002 14:19:50 +0100tU From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <andrew_nospam.harrison_remove_this@sun#.com>  Subject: Re: VMS commitmentf0 Message-ID: <ah6f9m$7q6$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   Bob Ceculski wrote:t   > Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <andrew_nospam.harrison_remove_this@sun#.com> wrote in message news:<ah3v0i$cp8$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>...  >  >>Main, Kerry wrote: ? >>D >>>As far as buying all new applications, what world do you live in? >>>LH >>>Most of the Customers I have talked to have gotten over "the grass isF >>>greener on the other side" type Sales arguments and do not have theF >>>budgets today for the "lets replace everything with brand new shiny >>>versions of everything".i >>>f >>> = >>You know perfectly well that the applications suites, thatsa< >>Seibel, SAP, PeopleSoft, Baan, JDE etc etc now account for? >>a big chunk of customers ISV costs and that customer spendingU@ >>on their own development has fallen and where "development" isE >>being done often its actually customisation of the packaged product3 >>they are deploying.  >>	 >>Regards0 >>Andrew Harrison  >> > : > an application is only as good as the os it runs on ...  > Bob's rule #2l >     3 Bob's rule #1 being never let a fact get in the wayt of your argument.e   Regardsr Andrew Harrisoni   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2002 13:56:36 -0400i# From: "Island" <sales@islandco.com> " Subject: XP1000 667mhz USD 2995!!!/ Message-ID: <ujdvic8vlghj18@news.supernews.com>f   XP1000 667mhz 512MB memory 9GB Disk 10/100 Ethernete 3Dlabs VX1 Oxygen 32mb graphics! keyboard mouse    $2995T   Shipping USA $50& Shipping worldwide - email for pricing( Refurbished systems with 1 year warranty       -- David B Turner	 Sales Dpte Island Computers US Corporationr 2700 Gregory Streetl	 Suite 180  Savannah GA 31404c Tel: 912 447 6622  Fax: 912 201 0096- sales@islandco.com www.islandco.com' http://www.islandco.com/legal-email.htm0   We sell Alpha's !<* All emails are checked for Virus and Worms   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2002 08:24:15 -0700-* From: "Alder" <MUNDDGNTDYTV@spammotel.com>* Subject: Re: [Hobbyist] User account setup+ Message-ID: <3d36ddad$1@obsidian.gov.bc.ca>   H Sorry for the delay in getting a response back to you guys.  My ISP died? soon after the WinME gateway died, strewing M$ carcasses in all, directions....  G Anyhow, here are a few of the security settings folks have asked about:V> Please let me know if anything's not as it should be.  Thanks.   Aldery     $ show log sys$systema;    "SYS$SYSTEM" = "SYS$SYSROOT:[SYSEXE]" (LNM$SYSTEM_TABLE)I $ show log dcl3 %SHOW-S-NOTRAN, no translation for logical name DCL. $ show sym dcl= %DCL-W-UNDSYM, undefined symbol - check validity and spellinga" $ show security sys$system:dcl.exe  1 SYS$COMMON:[SYSEXE]DCL.EXE;1 object of class FILEd      Owner: [SYSTEM]B      Protection: (System: RWED, Owner: RWED, Group: RE, World: RE)!      Access Control List: <empty>t  0 $ show security sys$common:[syslib]dcltables.exe  8 SYS$COMMON:[SYSLIB]DCLTABLES.EXE;77 object of class FILE      Owner: [SYSTEM]D      Protection: (System: RWED, Owner: RWED, Group: RWED, World: RE)!      Access Control List: <empty>o   $ show log accounts 2    "ACCOUNTS" = "HOBBY$DKA100:" (LNM$SYSTEM_TABLE)& $ show security /class=device accounts   _DKA100: object of class DEVICE       Owner: [SYSTEM]=      Protection: (System: RWPL, Owner: RWPL, Group: R, World) !      Access Control List: <empty>c   ACCOUNTS object of class VOLUMEy      Owner: [1,1]hF      Protection: (System: RWCD, Owner: RWCD, Group: RWCD, World: RWCD)!      Access Control List: <empty>    $ set default accounts:[000000]a $ dir [.users]   Directory HOBBY$DKA100:[USERS]  K BIGBRO.DIR;1        BORIS.DIR;1         EMMY.DIR;1          HSCHWARTZ.DIR;1  TBRANSCO.DIR;1   Total of 5 files.    $ show security users.dir1  5 HOBBY$DKA100:[000000]USERS.DIR;1 object of class FILEc      Owner: [100,201] ?      Protection: (System: RWE, Owner: RWE, Group: RE, World: E)s!      Access Control List: <empty>1  $ $ show security [.users]tbransco.dir  > HOBBY$DKA100:[000000.USERS]TBRANSCO.DIR;1 object of class FILE      Owner: [USERS,TBRANSCO]?      Protection: (System: RWE, Owner: RWE, Group: RE, World: E)o!      Access Control List: <empty>e        4 "Carl Perkins" <carl@gerg.tamu.edu> wrote in message' news:17JUL200223034958@gerg.tamu.edu...a3 > Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) writes...iI > }In article <17JUL200200482615@gerg.tamu.edu>, carl@gerg.tamu.edu (Carl  Perkins) writes:3 > }> "Alder" <MUNDDGNTDYTV@spammotel.com> writes...? > }> }Username: aldere > }> }Password: 9 > }> }Error activating command interpreter SYS$SYSTEM:DCLo > }> }I > }> }Would someone please suggest a way to track down the source of thist error?
 > }> }Thanks.s > }> } > }> }Alder  > }>G > }> The line after the above probably said: "Insufficient privilege orl! > }> object protection violation"t > }oH > }No, the line after the above probably was missing.  LOGINOUT.EXE does, > }that a lot, perhaps for security reasons. > # > It may depend on how you connect.  >>H > I actually tried setting DCL.EXE to no W access to make sure that thisH > was the message it gave and doing a SET HOST 0 in a DECterm gives both > lines when it fails. >u
 > --- Carl   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2002 08:26:36 -0700t* From: "Alder" <MUNDDGNTDYTV@spammotel.com>* Subject: Re: [Hobbyist] User account setup+ Message-ID: <3d36de3a$1@obsidian.gov.bc.ca><  < "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote in message! news:3D3617EB.97D44EA5@fsi.net...L >GG > Check an account that's working, also. Check the CLI specification ins > Authorize for that account.o >i  L Only SYSTEM is actually working.  The rest are giving me the same problem as! the one I described for TBRANSCO.e   AlderV   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2002 18:27:48 +0200o9 From: Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com> * Subject: Re: [Hobbyist] User account setup' Message-ID: <3D36EC84.D205886B@aaa.com>V  < Hm, only SYSTEM working can point to some licensing problem.= I think that SYSTEM might be the only account usable if theren+ is no VMS-USER licens registred and loaded.r+ What does  SHOW LIC and SHO LIC/USAGE say ?t  ; And, of course check your SYSTEM setting in AUF against any 3 other account not working, to find any differences._   Jan-Erik Sderholm.t   Alder wrote: >  > N > Only SYSTEM is actually working.  The rest are giving me the same problem as# > the one I described for TBRANSCO.i >  > AlderD   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2002 10:31:21 -0700O* From: "Alder" <MUNDDGNTDYTV@spammotel.com>* Subject: Re: [Hobbyist] User account setup+ Message-ID: <3d36fb77$1@obsidian.gov.bc.ca>B  3 "Jan-Erik Sderholm" <aaa@aaa.com> wrote in messaget! news:3D36EC84.D205886B@aaa.com...n> > Hm, only SYSTEM working can point to some licensing problem.? > I think that SYSTEM might be the only account usable if there	- > is no VMS-USER licens registred and loaded.t- > What does  SHOW LIC and SHO LIC/USAGE say ?u >l= > And, of course check your SYSTEM setting in AUF against anyi5 > other account not working, to find any differences.s  J Here's the licensing situation and the UAF records of SYSTEM and TBRANSCO. Thanks for your suggestions.   Aldero     $ SHOW LICENSE   Active licenses on node HOBBY:  > ------- Product ID --------    ---- Rating ----- -- Version --@ Product            Producer    Units Avail Activ Version Release TerminationiC C                  DEC             0  0     100    0.0  23-JUN-2003  23-JUN-2003tC CMS                DEC             0  0     100    0.0  23-JUN-2003g 23-JUN-2003 C CXX-V              DEC             0  0     100    0.0  23-JUN-2003h 23-JUN-2003rC DW-MOTIF           DEC             0  0     100    0.0  23-JUN-2003e 23-JUN-2003cC EXT-MATH-LIB       DEC             0  0     100    0.0  23-JUN-2003  23-JUN-2003yC EXT-MATH-LIB-RT    DEC             0  0     100    0.0  23-JUN-2003  23-JUN-2003 C LSE                DEC             0  0     100    0.0  23-JUN-2003y 23-JUN-2003nC OPENVMS-ALPHA      DEC             0  0     A      0.0  29-APR-2003M 29-APR-2003nC OPENVMS-ALPHA-USER DEC             0  0     100    0.0  23-JUN-2003g 23-JUN-2003RC OPENVMS-HOBBYIST   DEC             0  0     100    0.0  23-JUN-2003o 23-JUN-2003oC PHIGS              DEC             0  0     100    0.0  23-JUN-2003' 23-JUN-2003kC PHIGS-RUNTIME      DEC             0  0     100    0.0  23-JUN-2003r 23-JUN-2003rC RMSJNL             DEC             0  0     100    0.0  23-JUN-2003g 23-JUN-2003iC SQL-DEV            DEC             0  0     100    0.0  23-JUN-2003t 23-JUN-2003oC SSU                DEC             0  0     100    0.0  23-JUN-2003- 23-JUN-2003-C UCX                DEC             0  0     100    0.0  23-JUN-2003e 23-JUN-2003p   $ SHOW LICENSE/USAGE  C View of loaded licenses from node HOBBY                 18-JUL-20020 10:14:32.82c  > ------- Product ID --------   ---- Unit usage information ----> Product            Producer       Loaded  Allocated  AvailableE C                  DEC        Unlimited license, no usage informationlE CMS                DEC        Unlimited license, no usage informationrE CXX-V              DEC        Unlimited license, no usage information E DW-MOTIF           DEC        Unlimited license, no usage informationhE EXT-MATH-LIB       DEC        Unlimited license, no usage informationPE EXT-MATH-LIB-RT    DEC        Unlimited license, no usage informationlE LSE                DEC        Unlimited license, no usage informationtE OPENVMS-ALPHA      DEC        Unlimited license, no usage informationXE OPENVMS-ALPHA-USER DEC        Unlimited license, no usage informationCE OPENVMS-HOBBYIST   DEC        Unlimited license, no usage information1E PHIGS              DEC        Unlimited license, no usage informationSE PHIGS-RUNTIME      DEC        Unlimited license, no usage informationtE RMSJNL             DEC        Unlimited license, no usage information E SQL-DEV            DEC        Unlimited license, no usage information E SSU                DEC        Unlimited license, no usage informationnE UCX                DEC        Unlimited license, no usage informationa     UAF> SHOW SYSTEM  A Username: SYSTEM                           Owner:  SYSTEM MANAGER:C Account:  SYSTEM                           UIC:    [1,4] ([SYSTEM])m< CLI:      DCL                              Tables: DCLTABLES Default:  SYS$SYSROOT:[SYSMGR] LGICMD:c Flags:# Primary days:   Mon Tue Wed Thu Fri + Secondary days:                     Sat SunC No access restrictionsD Expiration:            (none)    Pwdminimum:  8   Login Fails:     0> Pwdlifetime:         30 00:00    Pwdchange:   5-JUL-2002 13:02> Last Login: 18-JUL-2002 10:12 (interactive), 18-JUL-2002 08:24 (non-interactive) 9 Maxjobs:         0  Fillm:       100  Bytlm:        64000:9 Maxacctjobs:     0  Shrfillm:      0  Pbytlm:           039 Maxdetach:       0  BIOlm:       150  JTquota:       4096@9 Prclm:          10  DIOlm:       150  WSdef:         2000e9 Prio:            4  ASTlm:       250  WSquo:         4000V9 Queprio:         0  TQElm:        20  WSextent:     16384d9 CPU:        (none)  Enqlm:      2000  Pgflquo:    1000000C Authorized Privileges:I   ACNT         ALLSPOOL     ALTPRI       AUDIT        BUGCHK       BYPASS H   CMEXEC       CMKRNL       DIAGNOSE     DOWNGRADE    EXQUOTA      GROUPH   GRPNAM       GRPPRV       IMPERSONATE  IMPORT       LOG_IO       MOUNTI   NETMBX       OPER         PFNMAP       PHY_IO       PRMCEB       PRMGBLiH   PRMMBX       PSWAPM       READALL      SECURITY     SETPRV       SHAREI   SHMEM        SYSGBL       SYSLCK       SYSNAM       SYSPRV       TMPMBX !   UPGRADE      VOLPRO       WORLDd Default Privileges:-I   ACNT         ALLSPOOL     ALTPRI       AUDIT        BUGCHK       BYPASSiH   CMEXEC       CMKRNL       DIAGNOSE     DOWNGRADE    EXQUOTA      GROUPH   GRPNAM       GRPPRV       IMPERSONATE  IMPORT       LOG_IO       MOUNTI   NETMBX       OPER         PFNMAP       PHY_IO       PRMCEB       PRMGBLCH   PRMMBX       PSWAPM       READALL      SECURITY     SETPRV       SHAREI   SHMEM        SYSGBL       SYSLCK       SYSNAM       SYSPRV       TMPMBXn!   UPGRADE      VOLPRO       WORLDI   UAF> SHOW TBRANSCO  F Username: TBRANSCO                         Owner:  Terrence Branscombe< Account:  USERS                            UIC:    [200,201] ([USERS,TBRANSCO])< CLI:      DCL                              Tables: DCLTABLES# Default:  ACCOUNTS:[USERS.TBRANSCO]  LGICMD:i Flags:# Primary days:   Mon Tue Wed Thu Fri + Secondary days:                     Sat Sun  No access restrictionsD Expiration:            (none)    Pwdminimum:  6   Login Fails:     7> Pwdlifetime:         90 00:00    Pwdchange:      (pre-expired)
 (pre-expired)e> Last Login:  8-JUL-2002 08:11 (interactive),            (none) (non-interactive)I9 Maxjobs:         0  Fillm:       100  Bytlm:        64000o9 Maxacctjobs:     0  Shrfillm:      0  Pbytlm:           0 9 Maxdetach:       0  BIOlm:       150  JTquota:       4096 9 Prclm:           8  DIOlm:       150  WSdef:         2000o9 Prio:            4  ASTlm:       250  WSquo:         4000d9 Queprio:         4  TQElm:        10  WSextent:     16384m9 CPU:        (none)  Enqlm:      2000  Pgflquo:      50000u Authorized Privileges:   NETMBX       TMPMBXc Default Privileges:p   NETMBX       TMPMBXi UAF>   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2002 10:59:18 -0700 * From: "Alder" <MUNDDGNTDYTV@spammotel.com>* Subject: Re: [Hobbyist] User account setup+ Message-ID: <3d370204$1@obsidian.gov.bc.ca>t  L I just noticed the UIC for the owner of my ACCOUNTS:[USERS] directory.  It'sI [100,201] which does not seem to be a known user in the UAF, nor is it in() the same group as my user accounts, i.e.:i   $ show security users.dirf  5 HOBBY$DKA100:[000000]USERS.DIR;1 object of class FILE       Owner: [100,201]i?      Protection: (System: RWE, Owner: RWE, Group: RE, World: E)d!      Access Control List: <empty>    UAF> show [100,*]/briefeD        Owner         Username           UIC       Account  Privs Pri	 Directoryt  D                      RDB$REMOTE70    [100,101]             Normal  4 SYS$COMMON:3 [RDB$REMOTE70]D                      RDMSTT70        [100,102]             Normal  4 SYS$COMMON:u
 [RDMSTT70]D                      SQLSRV$DEFLT    [100,103]             Normal  4 SYS$SYSDEVIn CE:[SQLSRV$DEFLT] D                      RMU$SRV         [100,104]             Normal  4 SYS$SYSDEVI  CE:[RMU$SRV]L Samba Guest          SAMBA__GUEST    [100,110]    SMBGUEST Normal  4 Disuser    J Looks pretty fishy to me.  Wish I could remember how I created [USERS]. ItJ looks like I did so while logged in on some account that no longer exists.K Could be.  I butchered my first few attempts using AUTHORIZE then tried theo NT Management Console instead.  E I tried changing the owner of [USERS] to SYSTEM and the protection tosL (W:RE), but this had no apparent effect.  The same error is generated when I attempt a user account login.    Still tinkering....u   Alderh    4 "Carl Perkins" <carl@gerg.tamu.edu> wrote in message' news:17JUL200223034958@gerg.tamu.edu...k3 > Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) writes...gI > }In article <17JUL200200482615@gerg.tamu.edu>, carl@gerg.tamu.edu (Carlp Perkins) writes:3 > }> "Alder" <MUNDDGNTDYTV@spammotel.com> writes...  > }> }Username: alder. > }> }Password: 9 > }> }Error activating command interpreter SYS$SYSTEM:DCLt > }> }I > }> }Would someone please suggest a way to track down the source of this0 error?
 > }> }Thanks.i > }> } > }> }Alders > }>G > }> The line after the above probably said: "Insufficient privilege orr! > }> object protection violation"  > } H > }No, the line after the above probably was missing.  LOGINOUT.EXE does, > }that a lot, perhaps for security reasons. > # > It may depend on how you connect.b >IH > I actually tried setting DCL.EXE to no W access to make sure that thisH > was the message it gave and doing a SET HOST 0 in a DECterm gives both > lines when it fails. >l
 > --- Carl   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2002.393 ************************  % Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2002 14:19:50 +0100tU From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <andrew_nospam.harrison_remove_this@sun#.com>  Subject: Re: VMS commitmentf0 Message-ID: <ah6f9m$7q6$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   Bob Ceculski wrote:t   > Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <andrew_nospam.harrison_remove_this@sun#.com> wrote in message news:<ah3v0i$cp8$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>...  >  >>Main, Kerry wrote: ? >>D >>>As far as buying all new applications, wh                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                