1 INFO-VAX	Sat, 20 Jul 2002	Volume 2002 : Issue 397       Contents:? Re: CLI access to HSV's (was: Re: StorageWorks HSG controllers)  Re: DCL Question Re: DCL Question$ Re: filename argument in java on VMS> Re: HSV snapshots vs. Spiralog ? (Was: CLI access to HSV's...)> Re: HSV snapshots vs. Spiralog ? (Was: CLI access to HSV's...)> Re: HSV snapshots vs. Spiralog ? (Was: CLI access to HSV's...)> Re: HSV snapshots vs. Spiralog ? (Was: CLI access to HSV's...)E Non-privileged file access broken - Re: [Hobbyist] User account setup + Re: Only 20% drop in VMS systems (was: wow) * Re: OpenVMS 7.3 - XFC ECO 2 !!! When ?????* Re: OpenVMS 7.3 - XFC ECO 2 !!! When ????? OpenVMS Multisessions  Re: OpenVMS Multisessions  Re: Terminal input from DCL   Re: VAX to Alpha migration tools RE: VMS commitment! Re: [Hobbyist] User account setup ! Re: [Hobbyist] User account setup ! Re: [Hobbyist] User account setup ! Re: [Hobbyist] User account setup ! Re: [Hobbyist] User account setup ! Re: [Hobbyist] User account setup   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------   Date: 18 Jul 2002 13:44:11 GMT7 From: sy18889@rabmbit.famrp.cosm (Bradford J. Hamilton) H Subject: Re: CLI access to HSV's (was: Re: StorageWorks HSG controllers)! Message-ID: <B3mj4BvMOwWJ@rabbit>    (Replies interspersed)...   a In article <EEdga8DPkGQ2@eisner.encompasserve.org>, young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) writes: ] > In article <FcgPt3HRvU1U@rabbit>, sy18889@rabmbit.famrp.cosm (Bradford J. Hamilton) writes: 	 >> Hello,  >>  R >> ISTR that when SWCC was first introduced for the HSJ/G80s, that there was to beM >> no CLI interface.  Folks were so upset at the time, and somehow made their O >> feelings known to COMPAQ in such a way that COMPAQ relented, and allowed CLI  >> access to HSJ/G80s. >>  J >> I made my feelings known to the COMPAQ folks at a StorageWorks event inR >> Shrewsbury, MA late last year, regarding lack of CLI access to the HSVs (othersP >> in the audience did, as well).  I suspect that the feelings expressed in thisQ >> thread are indicative of the fact that the majority of potential HSV customers ' >> would like to see CLI access to HSVs  >>  R >> So, HP - is there anyone out there who would like to carry this message back toQ >> the StorageWorks folks (assuming that a majority here are in agreement) - that / >> we would like to see CLI access to the HSVs?  >>   >  > 	That was then, this is now. > @ > 	As long as the scripting tool works, I'm fine.  How bout you?  N First off, thanks for responding - I would like to see reactions, positive and	 negative.   K I think that it's more important to have a good, stable environment for the L "tools" to run on - I'm not so sure that Win-whatever is that kind of stable environment.   > > > 	I need CLI on HSJ and HSG.  The layout and carving has beenC > 	virtualized away in HSV.  I need a tool to break off SnapClones,  > 	that tool is there.  O Why not have the "SnapClone tool" be available for scripting on VMS? - seems to : me it would be very useful for folks wanting to do backup.   > G > 	Curious, why do you need it?  Seems said functionality doesn't exist A > 	in EMC, does it exist in HDS?  If EVA and beyond runs with the D > 	big dogs, hide things that are breakable.  For every sharpshooter@ > 	in this forum that is comfortable, I'm sure too many calls goD > 	to Colorado for HSJ/HSZ/HSG CLI issues.  Finally, they talk aboutE > 	how easy to manage.  Most of that is "click here and click there". ? > 	Yeah, "point and click crowd" can do it.  Learn to drive the < > 	big rigs and/or welding school and/or EVA management :-).  G I realize that the environment is supposed to "play well" with multiple . platforms, not just VMS - my point is twofold:  K 1.) If you don't need to run in a "multi-environment" mode - why limit your P storage reliability/availability to the most *un*reliable/*un*available platform
 available?  N 2.) Now you *have* to co-ordinate your platform activity with storage activityK which is no longer under your direct control - two points of responsibility N where one existed before.  More chances of a SNAFU.  Would you want to entrustM your customer's data to an entity who doesn't know/care about your customer's 
 unique needs?    > 	 > 				Rob  >  --   Bradford J. Hamilton& braMdhamAilPtoSn@aMtAtPbi.cSom		(home)& sMy1A88P89S@rabMbit.fAmPr.coSm		(work)  ; "All opinions that I express are my own, not my employer's"  "Lose the MAPS"    ------------------------------    Date: 20 Jul 2002 05:38:22 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)  Subject: Re: DCL Question 3 Message-ID: <1p1hfrl1bZO3@eisner.encompasserve.org>   V In article <3D389E9E.FF388B06@pacbell.net>, Don Sykes <annonymous@pacbell.net> writes: > James wrote: >>  F >> Is possible to write a DCL batch file so when ever you encounter an7 >> error, just resume to the next command and continue?  >  > How about " > $ on error then gosub show_error > $... > $  > $ SHOW_ERROR:    $ ! $ write sys$output $STATUS8 $ STATUS_WITH_WHICH_WE_WILL_EXIT_THE_BATCH_JOB = $STATUSJ $ write sys$output F$MESSAGE(STATUS_WITH_WHICH_WE_WILL_EXIT_THE_BATCH_JOB)  " > $ on error then gosub show_error
 > $ return  N I am really annoyed when I find a batch job that exits with a false "success".) It totally messes up SUBMIT/RETAIN=ERROR.    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 20 Jul 2002 13:05:25 +0200 - From: Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@Free.fr>  Subject: Re: DCL Question ' Message-ID: <3D3943F2.9FD1F95D@Free.fr>    $ on warning then exit $status   ?    D.   Larry Kilgallen wrote: > P > I am really annoyed when I find a batch job that exits with a false "success".+ > It totally messes up SUBMIT/RETAIN=ERROR.    ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 20 Jul 2002 08:06:04 GMT ? From: Jim.Johnson@software-exploration.nospam.com (Jim Johnson) - Subject: Re: filename argument in java on VMS . Message-ID: <3d39194d.457337@news.demon.co.uk>   Two things to try:  F - you mentioned that you had lucene running on NT.  If you just pulledB in the .jar file, make sure that it has a stream_lf record format.7 You can find out by doing a dir/full.  If it isn't, do: *   $ set file <jar file name>/att=rfm:stmlf  A - If the .jar file has a stream_lf record format, try putting the , class name on the java command inside quote.   Jim.    A On Fri, 19 Jul 2002 16:58:16 -0300, "June Young" <jy@dymaxion.ca>  wrote:  
 >Yes, thanks, 1 >I rerun @sys$comman:[java131.com]java$131_setup,  >now I get:  >java version "1.3.1" 1 >Java(TM) 2 Runtime Environment, Standard Edition B >Classic VM (build 1.3.1-3, 03/29/2002-10:47, native threads, jit) > ! >I also set up the java$classpath  >sh log java$classpath> >   "JAVA$CLASSPATH" = "DYM$DISK:[DYMAX.LUCENE]LUCENE-1_2.JAR" >(LNM$PROCESS_TABLE)8 >        = "DYM$DISK:[DYMAX.LUCENE]LUCENE-DEMOS-1_2.JAR" >        = "[]"  > L >I know the class path should be right,because it works on NT, but on vms, I >get:  > 6 >java org.apache.lucene.demo.IndexFiles lucene_src/src; >Exception in thread "main" java.lang.NoClassDefFoundError: " >org/apache/lucene/demo/indexfiles > - >It seems my class path setting is not right?  >  >I even tried the following: >java -classpathM >dym$disk/dymax/lucene/lucene-1_2.jar:dym$disk/dymax/lucene/lucene-demos-1_2. ( >jar:. org.apache.lucene.demo.IndexFiles; >Exception in thread "main" java.lang.NoClassDefFoundError: " >org/apache/lucene/demo/indexfiles >  >Headache! Headache! >  >June  > ; >"Bob Koehler" <koehler@encompasserve.org> wrote in message . >news:7QfjPsfQmjqH@eisner.encompasserve.org...B >> In article <b5UZ8.39243$Z6.467737@nnrp1.uunet.ca>, "June Young" ><jy@dymaxion.ca> writes: 
 >> > I tried: @ >> >  $ java org.apache.lucene.demo.IndexFiles lucene_src/src=20G >> > %DCL-W-MAXPARM, too many parameters - reenter command with fewer =  >> > parameters  >> >  \LUCENE_SRC\ >>< >>    Do a "show symbol java" and "show symbol/global java". >>G >>    It should be a lgobal symbol something like (assuming JDK 1.3.1):  >>4 >>   JAVA == "$ sys$common:[java$131.bin]java$java " >>E >>    I'll bet someone stuck a "run" in their after the first $.  Put - >>    it back the way HP(Compaq(DEC)) had it.  >>I >>    If it's not defined as a symbol, then you're picking up the defined I >>    verb from an older java installation, and one that's bad, too.  You J >>    need @sys$common:[java$131.com]java$131_setup in the system-wide, or" >>    at least your own login.com. >>4 >>    Most likely I'll bet someone did a bad edit toD >>    sys$common:[java$131.com]java$131_setup.com after the install. >> >  >    Jim Johnson  Software Exploration, Ltd.) (remove '.nospam' from the reply address)    ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 20 Jul 2002 06:48:54 GMT * From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>G Subject: Re: HSV snapshots vs. Spiralog ? (Was: CLI access to HSV's...) B Message-ID: <qJ7_8.280474$vq.15391263@bin6.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>  3 "Jan-Erik Sderholm" <aaa@aaa.com> wrote in message ! news:3D38798D.78D4D50F@aaa.com... 2 > I'm I wrong, or isn't this "snapshot" thing very) > much what Spiralog was supposed to be ?   J In part.  Log-structured storage can make snapshot-style mechanisms easierE to implement and more efficient in execution, but that alone probably J wouldn't have justified its development effort:  it was likely the lure ofG much better small-write performance (perhaps especially important given L VMS's synchronous metadata update requirements) that tipped the scales, plusA the accompanying assumption that large caches would eliminate the J discontiguity disadvantages for larger files updated in place and the needF to do something anyway to allow portions of the file system to support larger volumes.    - bill   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 20 Jul 2002 08:09:48 GMT ? From: Jim.Johnson@software-exploration.nospam.com (Jim Johnson) G Subject: Re: HSV snapshots vs. Spiralog ? (Was: CLI access to HSV's...) . Message-ID: <3d391a86.770738@news.demon.co.uk>  E On 20 Jul 2002 12:08:30 +0800, Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>  wrote:  ) >jlsue <jlsuexxxz@screaminet.com> writes:  > G >> Now it is being done by the hardware and any OS can benefit from it.  > G >> (Note, I do not mean to imply that the same work done for host-based ? >> snapshots was migrated to hardware, I'd have no idea if that  >> actually happened.) > I >So how does the HSV ensure that *at the `split time'* all of the on disk C >data is consistant? That there are no suprises in the block cache?   A Without knowing how it was actually built, but working from first  principles:   D How does the HSV ensure that the data is consistent at the time of a
 power outage?    It should be the same logic.   Jim.     >  >-- = >Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd., 8 >+61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.A >                                             West Australia 6076 / >Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked. G >EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.    Jim Johnson  Software Exploration, Ltd.) (remove '.nospam' from the reply address)    ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 20 Jul 2002 04:17:17 GMT * From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>G Subject: Re: HSV snapshots vs. Spiralog ? (Was: CLI access to HSV's...) B Message-ID: <hv5_8.183554$iX5.9449111@bin3.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>  0 "David Webb" <d.webb@mdx.ac.uk> wrote in message" news:3D38ABA8.5060600@mdx.ac.uk...   ...   E > It is interesting to note that as well as a product appearing on NT C > the cloning facility in Tru64s Advanced File system looks awfully J > similar to the proposed VMS Snapshot services - and of course that works > in a cluster environment.   I Ah, but not a *VMS-style* cluster environment.  IIRC while Tru64 recently F added the ability for multiple nodes to access *user* data directly onK shared disks, the *metadata* for a given filesystem (which of course may be H mounted Unix-style into some larger common directory structure) is stillG centrally-managed by one node (though it can fail over to be managed by I another node with access to the same disk if the current owner dies).  My G vague recollection is that AdvFS cloning is accomplished by copying the H entire volume's metadata (as IIRC AFS's Episode local file system - fromH which some AdvFS features were derived to support DCE - does), which mayL have been reasonable 'way back when disk sizes were measured in MB but seems- a bit brute-force (and inefficient) nowadays.   K By contrast, a snapshot service suitable for clustered ODS-2 use would need J to support true distributed management of metadata - something unnecessary) in a clustered NT (or Tru64) environment.    - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 20 Jul 2002 18:21:22 +0100 # From: David Webb <d.webb@mdx.ac.uk> G Subject: Re: HSV snapshots vs. Spiralog ? (Was: CLI access to HSV's...) ( Message-ID: <3D399C12.3020307@mdx.ac.uk>   Bill Todd wrote:  2 > "David Webb" <d.webb@mdx.ac.uk> wrote in message$ > news:3D38ABA8.5060600@mdx.ac.uk... >  > ...  >  > E >>It is interesting to note that as well as a product appearing on NT C >>the cloning facility in Tru64s Advanced File system looks awfully J >>similar to the proposed VMS Snapshot services - and of course that works >>in a cluster environment.  >> > K > Ah, but not a *VMS-style* cluster environment.  IIRC while Tru64 recently H > added the ability for multiple nodes to access *user* data directly onM > shared disks, the *metadata* for a given filesystem (which of course may be J > mounted Unix-style into some larger common directory structure) is stillI > centrally-managed by one node (though it can fail over to be managed by K > another node with access to the same disk if the current owner dies).  My I > vague recollection is that AdvFS cloning is accomplished by copying the J > entire volume's metadata (as IIRC AFS's Episode local file system - fromJ > which some AdvFS features were derived to support DCE - does), which mayN > have been reasonable 'way back when disk sizes were measured in MB but seems/ > a bit brute-force (and inefficient) nowadays.  > M > By contrast, a snapshot service suitable for clustered ODS-2 use would need L > to support true distributed management of metadata - something unnecessary+ > in a clustered NT (or Tru64) environment.  >  > - bill >  >  >  >   F My understanding was that VMS snapshot services and Tru64 cloning did  pretty much the same thing.   D 1) Take a copy of the metadata of the volume. This metadata records F which blocks are in use on the volume and which files are using which  blocks. F Recording this information takes up very little additional disk space.  D 2) As time goes on whenever a block is first updated on the originalF volume take a copy of that original block and alter the clone metadata to point at this copied block.G Hence overtime as the original volume changes more and more blocks are  E copied and hence the snapshot/clone takes up more and more diskspace.   F I don't really see why a VMS style cluster should be at a disadvantage7 as compared with a Tru64 style cluster in this process.   C   One thing I do recall which might have unnecessarily complicated  H things was that the VMS Snapshot services was intended to allow for the > creation of writeable snapshots as well as readonly snapshots.D I recall that it was suggested that this would be of use during Y2K > testing. Myself I never saw much point to writeable snapshots.  G All I wanted was to be able to do a really safe backup (rather than the F nearly safe backup/ign=interlock) WITHOUT having to spend a fortune on( controllers and shadowed/mirrored disks.  
 David Webb VMS and Unix team leader CCSS Middlesex University   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 20 Jul 2002 16:31:50 GMT - From: "John E. Malmberg" <wb8tyw@qsl.network> N Subject: Non-privileged file access broken - Re: [Hobbyist] User account setup* Message-ID: <3D398BD1.5060304@qsl.network>  9 Changing the title to more accurately reflect the thread.   D What you have is for so far unknown reasons an OpenVMS Alpha system I where non-privileged accounts can not access files that are protected in  % a way where access should be allowed.0  I In this case the problem probably has nothing to do with the account, or s with the apparent target file.  I I have repaired similar problems from finding the protection of files in t& SYS$SHARE: with incorrect permissions.  H I have also seen this class of problem when a required system image did G not get installed, ususally because of insufficient sysgen parameters. h; It is also possible that the VMSIMAGES.DAT file is corrupt.g  I Note that even though information for DCL.EXE looks correct, the problem  K could be in any shared image that is used in the process of opening a file.p  F Having the wrong version of a system image installed, due to it being A placed in SYS$SPECIFIC:, or other reasons is another possibility.a  H It might take a file by file comparison with a known good system, or an H experienced OpenVMS system administrator might be able notice something % that is wrong by just looking around.]    I Generally after I repair a system that has an unusual problem like this, -D especially if turns out to be the result of non-standard changes, I E schedule it to be rebuilt from a clean install of known good sources.   B I recommend always having the instructions on hand to duplicate a A computer setup, regardless of platform.  It is a must for a good . disaster recovery plan.P    H Since this appears to be a new installation, the fastest resolution may : be to backup what you have now, especially the data files.  G Then re-install OpenVMS, initializing the disk.  Install DECNET (IV or WF V), and then TCP/IP and MOTIF.  Use AUTOGEN as described to make sure G that the SYSGEN parameters are adequate, and then start adding in your > user accounts.  G After you verify the accounts are working properly, then you can start o# installing the additional packages.g  G I suspect that you will find that everything will start working if you a do this.   -Johnd wb8tyw@qsl.network Personal Opinion Only    ------------------------------   Date: 20 Jul 02 14:37:10 +0200) From: p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture)h4 Subject: Re: Only 20% drop in VMS systems (was: wow)) Message-ID: <pf+rMwjljT2f@elias.decus.ch>>  a In article <vhrgju8ajme8h5aia7r8gt1e0p4gmm1ib2@4ax.com>, jlsue <jlsuexxxz@screaminet.com> writes:eD > Once again, Andrew, you show your incredible inability to read and
 > understand.e > D > You can not prove me incorrect in what I say - mostly because I amH > speaking about real-world experience - so you try to twist things with# > innuendo and disparaging remarks.w > A > Please don't waste our time with more of this garbage until you' > actually have a clue.a >   G Can folks please avoid quoting huge posts when only adding a few lines?n  ! Next 365 lines of quotes snipped.i   __
 Paul Sture Switzerlandn   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 20 Jul 2002 12:41:06 -0400 2 From: rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger)3 Subject: Re: OpenVMS 7.3 - XFC ECO 2 !!! When ?????aK Message-ID: <rdeininger-2007021241060001@1cust129.tnt3.nashua.nh.da.uu.net>l  F In article <20020715180509.43212.qmail@web20206.mail.yahoo.com>, Fabio) Cardoso <fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br> wrote:d  , >I would like a postion of the XFC ECO 2  ?   J I don't think anything more will be said officially until it is released. H We have seen estimated dates.  In a world where "stuff" happens, I don'tE think anyone will waste time trying to predict the exact day, or evens week.n  + >A few threads ago, Hoffmann promised it tor
 >12-JUL-2002."  I I won't spend time looking for a post where Hoff "promised" anything likel- an exact date.  That would be pretty unusual.l   >Until now - nothing !  0 >We tested our ES-40 with the XFC activated and 6 >we had great results of performance with ORDB 7.0-64.4 >But, despite the problems with the cache, we turned >the system to VIOC !l  H Yes, under many workloads, XFC blows the socks off of VIOC.  But you are0 correct to turn XFC off until you get the patch.  C If you have a software service contract, you can always ask your HPc9 representative to try to get you early access to the ECO.e   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 20 Jul 2002 19:46:59 +0200 9 From: Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com>'3 Subject: Re: OpenVMS 7.3 - XFC ECO 2 !!! When ?????o' Message-ID: <3D39A213.8E5FD60E@aaa.com>.  ; Now, talkng about Rdb specificaly, I think that you can geti? the same, if not better, peformance by using the buffer/cachingA? tools in Rdb, instead of XFC. Such as global buffers, row cache:C and properly configurated process buffers sizes. If you application:; does a lot of other thing besides of database I/O, that's ae different story.  D In general, I try to buffer data as close to the "user" as possible,E that is with the shortest code-path from the application to the data.s@ In Rdb that is local buffers, Row cache, Global buffers, any VMS1 caching and disk controler caching in that order.r  H I'm not saying that XFC would be a bad thing when using Rdb, but I don't thinkTA it can replace a proper use of the built-in buffer/caches in Rdb.r   Jan-Erik Sderholm.E  H > In article <20020715180509.43212.qmail@web20206.mail.yahoo.com>, Fabio+ > Cardoso <fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br> wrote:h >I1 > >We tested our ES-40 with the XFC activated and.8 > >we had great results of performance with ORDB 7.0-64.6 > >But, despite the problems with the cache, we turned > >the system to VIOC !n   ------------------------------    Date: 20 Jul 2002 05:21:07 -07001 From: susan_skonetski@hotmail.com (Sue Skonetski)x Subject: OpenVMS Multisessions< Message-ID: <857e9e41.0207200421.a217106@posting.google.com>  ? I just received this from one of our Partners, you are actuallyBF getting this BEFORE the OpenVMS Ambassadors (I am working at home on aE PC and my distribution list in on a VMS system at work and the PC has  some problems). ;')c  / DO MANY THINGS AT ONCE ON YOUR OPEN VMS SYSTEM D  With  MultiSessions  e  B  Allows up to 10 sessions on each VT terminal or PC using terminalD emulation. Uses only one VMS license. Hot-Key between sessions. MuchC quicker than pointing and clicking and uses less resources plus youuF don't have to search your task bar to figure out which session you areE looking for. MultiSessions automatically repaints screen on switching 	 sessions.   E "Our Company has been using Multisessions in four different locations0B for over four years. Multisessions allows us to to have the quote,C inventory and job order screens at our fingertips without having tooF continually open and close sessions. We can also run major reports and5 programs without tying up the station doing the job".i" Equipment and Accessories Company.  = "Multisessions has made our computing time more efficient and[B productive. Now users have as many screeens active at once as theyE need. Multisessions has made our computing environment more efficient 0 and I would recommend it to any other VMS site".8 System Manager, Truck and Utility Equipment Manufacturer   E "The original evaluation was done using a heavily overloaded machine.DF The biggest difference in performance became apparent during peak loadE periods. When running Multisessions the screen I/O rate was about the C same as when no windowing product was  being used. When running then? other products it took about 10 times as long for a full screenE update".  $ Download Free 30-Day Trial Version:  www.networkingdynamics.com or call 1-800-ASK-NDC1 (1-800-275-6321)   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 20 Jul 2002 10:02:48 -0400g From: Everhart <ge@gce.com>." Subject: Re: OpenVMS Multisessions& Message-ID: <3D396D88.7060909@gce.com>  K You can also use BOSS (available free w/src on sigtapes or Hunter Goatley'shH site) for similar function, fullscreen. SWiM does the multisession thingE with SMG and text windows. Much more computationally expensive but ifC1 using machines faster than vax11/750, it is fine.o     Sue Skonetski wrote:A > I just received this from one of our Partners, you are actually.H > getting this BEFORE the OpenVMS Ambassadors (I am working at home on aG > PC and my distribution list in on a VMS system at work and the PC has  > some problems). ;')a > 1 > DO MANY THINGS AT ONCE ON YOUR OPEN VMS SYSTEM m >  With  > MultiSessions  h > D >  Allows up to 10 sessions on each VT terminal or PC using terminalF > emulation. Uses only one VMS license. Hot-Key between sessions. MuchE > quicker than pointing and clicking and uses less resources plus youkH > don't have to search your task bar to figure out which session you areG > looking for. MultiSessions automatically repaints screen on switchingE > sessions.t > G > "Our Company has been using Multisessions in four different locations-D > for over four years. Multisessions allows us to to have the quote,E > inventory and job order screens at our fingertips without having tocH > continually open and close sessions. We can also run major reports and7 > programs without tying up the station doing the job".i$ > Equipment and Accessories Company. > ? > "Multisessions has made our computing time more efficient andwD > productive. Now users have as many screeens active at once as theyG > need. Multisessions has made our computing environment more efficientn2 > and I would recommend it to any other VMS site".: > System Manager, Truck and Utility Equipment Manufacturer >   G > "The original evaluation was done using a heavily overloaded machine. H > The biggest difference in performance became apparent during peak loadG > periods. When running Multisessions the screen I/O rate was about theiE > same as when no windowing product was  being used. When running thedA > other products it took about 10 times as long for a full screenp
 > update". > & > Download Free 30-Day Trial Version:  > www.networkingdynamics.com > or call 1-800-ASK-NDC1 > (1-800-275-6321)   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 20 Jul 2002 14:12:43 +0200i2 From: "Frits A.M. Storms" <frits@storms.tmfweb.nl>$ Subject: Re: Terminal input from DCL? Message-ID: <3d395837$0$12279$e4fe514c@dreader4.news.xs4all.nl>c  H If you mean the example at page 349 from this book, it's in every aspect) that I wish to realise totally useless...b Fritdf< "Didier Morandi" <Didier.Morandi@Free.fr> schreef in bericht! news:3D38A348.72AE1A72@Free.fr...o= > Some examples in the book "Writing real programs in DCL" bya@ > Agnanostopoulos/Hoffman give a DCL customizable input routine. >i > D. >o > "Frits A.M. Storms" wrote: > >? > > L.S.I > > As DCL does not provide a precise input routine (I am missing featuesl like:,G > > Predefined maximum number of characters in length, editable defaulte stringG > > to start with, handling of function keys, character string with thei precise.J > > characters that are allowed) as can be seen from 3GL-applications I am0 > > looking for the easiest way to realise this.I > > Is there a nifty freeware application I missed, or can I build (using7 GNU C)E > > a simple routine by calling TPU or another system service that isf
 suitable ?   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 20 Jul 2002 11:06:46 GMT  From: "H.Vlems" <hvlems@iae.nl>r) Subject: Re: VAX to Alpha migration tools-1 Message-ID: <avb_8.4900$Q4.52546@typhoon.bart.nl>   ; "David Pikcilingis" <piks@speakeasy.net> schreef in berichts) news:ujcb891qack29f@corp.supernews.com....% > Glad I could help lighten the load!1 >i= > We see a lot of customers who are moving in that direction.rI > We try our best to give them the tools and user interface they know ande > love.n > C > And then there are those migrating from OpenVMS to Windows.......  >6@ And some of those misguided souls are now turning back to VMS...   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 20 Jul 2002 08:33:09 -0400t' From: "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@hp.com>n Subject: RE: VMS commitmentrT Message-ID: <BE56C50EA024184DAF48F0B9A47F5CF402660861@kaoexc01.americas.cpqcorp.net>   Andrew,h   Re: buying new ERP / CRM pkgs -   G <<< At the interfaces level 10 years ago customers would roll their owno@ integration/messaging now there is a much greater use of EAI/ETL products instead.>>>  @ While there will continue to be a market for these products, theF previous hype for these large pkgs curing world hunger has dropped off with most cust's now.i  H From Gartner (since many Cust's like to quote these guys): July 11, 2002E "The enterprise application software markets, which saw unprecedentedeD growth in the late 1990s, have come back to reality in 2001. This isF because of the economy and the CFO/CIO focus on doing more with the ITD purchases of the past than in putting in new systems. And the futureD looks just as tight for 2002 for the worldwide customer relationshipD management (CRM), supply chain management (SCM), enterprise resource* planning (ERP) and collaborative markets."   Regards   
 Kerry Main Senior Consultantk Hewlett-Packard Canada! Consulting & Integration Servicese Voice: 613-592-4660s Fax   : 613-591-4477 Email: Kerry.Main@hp.com     -----Original Message-----' From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy37 [mailto:andrew_nospam.harrison_remove_this@sun#.com]=20n Sent: July 19, 2002 1:15 PMl To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.ComN Subject: Re: VMS commitment          David Froble wrote:o  * > Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy wrote: >=20 >=20= >> Since the mid 90's most big corporates have been following>H >> a strategy of moving from developing their own apps to buying as much   >> as they can.h >>F >> The rise in fortunes of Seibel, SAP, Oracle applications etc are=20; >> examples of this effect turning up in revenues to ISV's.y >=20 >=20    E It would be wrong just to concentrate on the Applications Suites liketH SAP and Oracle, customers are also getting out of developing middleware,? interfaces etc as well. 10 years ago many investment banks used)H middleware and market data systems that they rolled themselves, now manyH have replaced these with packages from vendors like Reuters, Vitria etc.  C At the interfaces level 10 years ago customers would roll their owno@ integration/messaging now there is a much greater use of EAI/ETL products instead.b  G One Seibel project I recently worked on also required Vitria, AB InitiosF and a number of other products to manage the interfaces between Seibel? and the other applications, bespoke or otherwise running in thec customers environment.  H Just having Seibel available on the platform isn't the end of the story,F applications stacks have become very much more complicated composed ofD products from multiple vendors all of which need to be available and2 properly supported on the platform being proposed.  * OpenVMS also falls at this hurdle as well.   Regards  Andrew Harrisont     >=20D > First, not all application packages are the same.  Some are ratherA > rigid, saying that "you WILL run your business in this manner".i	 Others=20nG > try to allow as much flexibility as possible.  Both scenarios have=20e5 > problems, and yes, they do work for some companies.e >=20J > If you're running a business where you and everyone else in that type=20 > ofC > business do the same thing with no hope of increasing your marketa share=20> > by doing things in a better manner, AND, there is a software application=20F > that fits your business rather well, then packaged applications will be=20n > a winner for you.h >=20H > If your business requires you to 'do it just a bit better' in order toG > be successful, then a rigid package just won't do, and some of the=20 J > flexible packages are rather complex (and expensive) to install, use,=20
 > and modify.y >=20G > Then there are the examples of custom home grown applications that=20g > giveC > such a bad reputation.  All the terms and ship via codes are hardb	 coded,=20nE > along with custom logic for each one.  Modification and changing=20-G > business needs are expensive, inflexible, and serve to provide job=20b  > security for a bunch of hacks. >=20C > In the middle are the small ISVs that produce applications for=20D
 > verticalJ > markets, in-house developed applications that are well designed, well=20I > implemented, and flexible, the packages that get adopted by in-house=20e@ > people who add company specific business requirements, and the packages=20 H > that get modified and maintained by the ISV or other outside technical   > help.n >=20G > The last group of applications are particularly suitable for VMS withe& > it's robust development environment. >=20H > So why do some companies attempt to move to the SAPs and such, when=20 > it'sI > not really a good fit for them?  Too many reasons, some of them with=20l > some validity. >=20D > 1) The clueless bean counter who finally advanced to a position ofF > authority figures that he can cut costs to enhance profits, and ends up=20t- > cutting out the muscle and keeping the fat.  >=20G > 2)The 'big ego' IT staff that perpetuates the custom 'everything hardtH > coded' systems that serve the IT staff much better than they do the=20 > business needs.s >=20H > 3) The managers that listen to the 'Authur Andersons', who are much=20 > moreH > interested in selling $250/hr SAP consultants to the customer, than in   > the customer's well being. >=20
 > <many more>  >=20 > Dave >=20   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 20 Jul 2002 07:05:46 GMTb( From: Alder <PGDEHMKOKIMD@spammotel.com>* Subject: Re: [Hobbyist] User account setup, Message-ID: <3D390BCA.4050905@spammotel.com>   David J. Dachtera wrote: > Alder wrote: > : >>"John E. Malmberg" <wb8tyw@qsl.network> wrote in message& >>news:3D377CEA.7020106@qsl.network... >> >>8 >>>This can actually be viewed as an interesting puzzle. >>G >>I think the bigger puzzle is why I would think I could manage VMS :-)r >  > G > Don't be so hard on yourself. We're all challenged by this, and we'reT > mostly senior VMS folks. >  > L >>I will go through the steps you suggest, but it will have to wait a day orN >>two unfortunately.  Thanks very much for taking so much of your time to help >>me wade through this :-) >  > . > No problem, speaking for myself (of course). > H > I can't help thinking its some goofy protection problem. Can you thinkJ > of any reason why you couldn't access the system disk from a group %O200
 > account?  F About the only straw left to grasp is the GBLPAGES / GBLSECTIONS clue F I've still to investigate.  I did have to fiddle with these and other B parameters in order to build and install Perl on the system.  The H default values setup during the installation of OpenVMS were making DEC  C burp.h   > ) > Can you try logging in as SYSTEM, then:s >  > $ SET UIC [200,201]r' > $ SET PROC/PRIV=(NOALL,NETMBX,TMPMBX)e* > $ OPEN/READ/SHARE BIN SYS$SYSTEM:DCL.EXE
 > $ CLOSE BIN  > J > I'm kinda grasping at straws here, but I'm really curious to know what's > going on with your system. >    Sure, here's the result:   $ SET UIC [200,201] % $ SET PROC/PRIV=(NOALL,NETMBX,TMPMBX)o( $ OPEN/READ/SHARE BIN SYS$SYSTEM:DCL.EXEA %DCL-E-OPENIN, error opening SYS$COMMON:[SYSEXE]DCL.EXE; as input-? -RMS-E-PRV, insufficient privilege or file protection violation0 $ CLOSE BINdC %DCL-W-UNDFIL, file has not been opened by DCL - check logical name- $C  2 But, see my response to Peter Weaver's suggestion.   Thanks,1 Alder.   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 20 Jul 2002 07:37:49 GMT0( From: Alder <PGDEHMKOKIMD@spammotel.com>* Subject: Re: [Hobbyist] User account setup, Message-ID: <3D39134C.5030201@spammotel.com>   David J. Dachtera wrote:  A Just to elaborate on my comments regarding the Perl install, the IG installation notes gave three options for running Perl, and I chose to yI make it a DCL command.  Here's the command file I ran while logged in as a= SYSTEM.  It's directly from the Perl 5.6.1 docs (README.VMS):g  C Execute the following command file to define PERL as a DCL command.w> You'll need CMKRNL privilege to install the new dcltables.exe.          $ create perl.cld      !2      ! modify to reflect location of your perl.exe      !      define verb perle'        image perl_root:[000000]perl.exe         cliflags (foreign)n      $!dA      $ set command perl /table=sys$common:[syslib]dcltables.exe -F.       /output=sys$common:[syslib]dcltables.exe7      $ install replace sys$common:[syslib]dcltables.exee      $ exitt  @ Should I have trusted this command file to "do the right thing"?   Alder    ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 20 Jul 2002 07:41:06 GMT=( From: Alder <PGDEHMKOKIMD@spammotel.com>* Subject: Re: [Hobbyist] User account setup, Message-ID: <3D391411.6000309@spammotel.com>   Peter Weaver wrote:cD >>>>Sorry to pester this group with questions that would embarrass a >>>g
 >>chimpanzee,h >>...o >  > M > After just reading through what has been going on here these last two days,e0 > you might want to rethink that opening line :)  E You're too kind. :-)  Perhaps the question was not embarrassing, but .. shooting myself in the foot like this sure is.  % >>UAF> modify tbransco/privileges=alle( >>%UAF-I-MDFYMSG, user record(s) updated >  > Try this again but use4 >    UAF> modify tbransco/privileges=all/DEFPRIV=ALL    I EUREKA!  The user account logged in!  So now we revoke privileges one by  , one?  Or is there a more dignified approach?    
 Appreciately,e   Alder    ------------------------------    Date: 20 Jul 2002 02:12:22 -0700) From: P.Young@unsw.EDU.AU (Patrick Young)b* Subject: Re: [Hobbyist] User account setup= Message-ID: <55f85d77.0207200112.266ca3ad@posting.google.com>   ] "Alder" <MUNDDGNTDYTV@spammotel.com> wrote in message news:<3d36de3a$1@obsidian.gov.bc.ca>... > > "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote in message# > news:3D3617EB.97D44EA5@fsi.net...  > > I > > Check an account that's working, also. Check the CLI specification ini > > Authorize for that account.s > >s > N > Only SYSTEM is actually working.  The rest are giving me the same problem as# > the one I described for TBRANSCO.l  7 You might want to use this fact. Ie: work back from it:n   $ SET DEF SYS$SYSTEM< $ MC AUTHORIZE COPY SYSTEM TESTACC/PASS=<whatever>/UIC=[1,5]  C If this works, start making TESTACC look like a broken user accountM *ONE* step at a time.n  G Someone already may of suggested this - I have not seen all the thread.   F If you can't break your TESTACC, do other accounts < MAXSYSGROUP work?   ------------------------------   Date: 20 Jul 2002 05:27 CDT ' From: carl@gerg.tamu.edu (Carl Perkins)u* Subject: Re: [Hobbyist] User account setup- Message-ID: <20JUL200205270954@gerg.tamu.edu>w  . "Alder" <MUNDDGNTDYTV@spammotel.com> writes...J }Annoying, yes, but I'm stunned by the richness of John's reply and Carl'sI }willingness to stick around for so long, especially since I probably didr }this to myself. :-(   I can be pretty stubborn.d   Considering that  B 1) SYSTEM can log in, but can not access SYS$SYSTEM:DCL.EXE if youA    SET UIC to a noraml user value and turn off excess privileges,o   andm  J 2) Setting the failing account to have full privilege allows it to log in,   andn  H }There are 103984 free global pages (largest contiguous block is 71120).$ }There are 148 free global sections.  J 3) You have what is probably a reasonable quantity of free global sections#    and plenty of free global pages,a  D then I have to conclude that it probably really is an access control problem.  I Add in that looking at the files has not shown a file that has any access 
 restrictions.r   Very confusing.   K You may have a problem with different files in SYS$SPECIFIC and SYS$COMMON,d7 and have been checking one that is not actually in use.p  H You may have a problem with ACLs - I don't remember if you used DIR/PROTF or DIR/SEC to look at the files, you should try again with /SEC (whichD shows ACLs) as /PROT only shows basic SOGW protections and not ACLs.  E You may have some (relatively obscure) shareable image .EXE file thatcH has the wrong protection, or an ACL, or that is not installed correctly.   How to find the problem?  L You should try turning on file access failure auditing as someone suggested.K This ought to tell you exactly which file it is that is causing the problemnH it may not be DCL.EXE. It may be a shareable image that DCL.EXE needs toG use one or more routines from, or various other files such as DCLTABLESpC (which you did aparently modify to install perl, I think you said).n   --- Carl  C P.S. Are you the same person I just sent an e-mail to about gettingMB SAMBA working on your system? If so, and if it is the same system,7 then this problem could also be why that isn't working.a   ------------------------------    Date: 20 Jul 2002 05:44:24 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)n* Subject: Re: [Hobbyist] User account setup3 Message-ID: <LmSh0u5l+Y6E@eisner.encompasserve.org>o  W In article <3D391411.6000309@spammotel.com>, Alder <PGDEHMKOKIMD@spammotel.com> writes:t > Peter Weaver wrote: E >>>>>Sorry to pester this group with questions that would embarrass an >>>> >>>chimpanzee, >>>... >> s >> aN >> After just reading through what has been going on here these last two days,1 >> you might want to rethink that opening line :)e > G > You're too kind. :-)  Perhaps the question was not embarrassing, but  0 > shooting myself in the foot like this sure is. > & >>>UAF> modify tbransco/privileges=all) >>>%UAF-I-MDFYMSG, user record(s) updatedr >> i >> Try this again but uses5 >>    UAF> modify tbransco/privileges=all/DEFPRIV=ALLa >  > K > EUREKA!  The user account logged in!  So now we revoke privileges one by t. > one?  Or is there a more dignified approach?  H Enable auditing for "successful use of privilege", which also might haveI to be done separately for file access (I forget).  Most likely it is filea. access, and auditing will tell you which file.  H Files like LOGIN.COM and SYLOGIN.COM are the most likely culprits, sinceH they are accessed with the privileges of the target username rather than4 the exalted privileges with which LOGINOUT.EXE runs.   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2002.397 ************************