1 INFO-VAX	Thu, 25 Jul 2002	Volume 2002 : Issue 406       Contents: asynch device on alpha Re: asynch device on alpha% Re: BACKUP to remote disk via DECNET?  burst of CI errors. Help. 8 Re: COBOL Calling C -- Handling Args Passed by Reference Corporate email directories C Re: Custom DECwindows Display? (was: Re: Security Banner displayed) * Re: DiskXcel vs OpenVMS 7.3 read cacheing?( Re: How to access Oracle with DEC PascalI How to associate a service created in latcp with a executable application I How to associate a service created in latcp with a executable application + How to setup a VMS development environment? / Re: How to setup a VMS development environment? / Re: How to setup a VMS development environment? / Re: How to setup a VMS development environment? / Re: How to setup a VMS development environment? / Re: How to setup a VMS development environment? / Re: How to setup a VMS development environment? / Re: How to setup a VMS development environment? / Re: How to setup a VMS development environment? / Re: How to setup a VMS development environment? / Re: How to setup a VMS development environment? / Re: How to setup a VMS development environment? / Re: How to setup a VMS development environment? / Re: How to setup a VMS development environment? / Re: How to setup a VMS development environment? / Re: How to setup a VMS development environment? / Re: How to setup a VMS development environment? / Re: How to setup a VMS development environment? / Re: How to setup a VMS development environment? 0 Re: HP "OpenVMS Path to Itanium" Roadshow report0 Re: HP "OpenVMS Path to Itanium" Roadshow report0 Re: HP "OpenVMS Path to Itanium" Roadshow report0 Re: HP "OpenVMS Path to Itanium" Roadshow report0 Re: HP "OpenVMS Path to Itanium" Roadshow report0 Re: HP "OpenVMS Path to Itanium" Roadshow report0 Re: HP "OpenVMS Path to Itanium" Roadshow report0 Re: HP "OpenVMS Path to Itanium" Roadshow report# Re: HSV , Snaps and older databases # Re: HSV , Snaps and older databases  Re: Intel to smash AMD Re: Intel to smash AMD0 Re: IOS 12.1.14 and DECnet Phase IV vs V problem0 Re: IOS 12.1.14 and DECnet Phase IV vs V problem0 Re: IOS 12.1.14 and DECnet Phase IV vs V problem+ Re: Itanic2 - the cHumPaq spin continues... + Re: Itanic2 - the cHumPaq spin continues... # Re: low-level formatting SCSI disks # Re: low-level formatting SCSI disks E Re: MicroVAX TOY Clock Battery (was: Re: MV 3400 won't keep settings) E Re: MicroVAX TOY Clock Battery (was: Re: MV 3400 won't keep settings) * Re: Need 80' Fortran/VAX training material+ Re: Only 20% drop in VMS systems (was: wow) + Re: Only 20% drop in VMS systems (was: wow)  Re: OpenVMS Jobs in Europe Re: OpenVMS Jobs in Europe Re: OpenVMS Jobs in Europe Re: OpenVMS Jobs in Europe Re: OpenVMS Jobs in EuropeA Philosophical use of ACLs (related to "setting up a VMS dev env") E Re: Philosophical use of ACLs (related to "setting up a VMS dev env") E Re: Philosophical use of ACLs (related to "setting up a VMS dev env") $ Preventing ACME_SERVER From Starting( Re: Preventing ACME_SERVER From Starting printer status question  Re: printer status question  RE: printer status question  Re: printer status question H Q: Overriding /separate=flag qualifier for DCPS queues on per-job basis?L Re: Q: Overriding /separate=flag qualifier for DCPS queues on per-job basis?P Re: Q: Overriding /separate=flag qualifier for DCPS queues on per-job basis? bas  Re: Questions about license paks Re: RDB Questions  Re: Single Column text output?D Re: Size of the comp.os.vms readership ? , was: RE: OpenVMS webring:D Re: Size of the comp.os.vms readership ? , was: RE: OpenVMS webring:D Re: Size of the comp.os.vms readership ? , was: RE: OpenVMS webring:I Re: usage of LIB$M_FIS_MIXEDCASE in the lib$find_image_symbol RTL routine 
 Vax Emulators  Re: Vax Emulators  Re: Vax Emulators  Re: Vax Emulators  Re: Vax Emulators . Re: [Hobbyist] install of SQL/Services problem. Re: [Hobbyist] install of SQL/Services problem. Re: [Hobbyist] install of SQL/Services problem. Re: [Hobbyist] install of SQL/Services problem  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2002 23:23:08 GMT # From: "John N." <JNixon@cfl.rr.com>  Subject: asynch device on alpha < Message-ID: <wFG%8.92079$DS.2900178@twister.tampabay.rr.com>  G Is there such a thing?  Is a terminal server the only way to address an - asych/serial device from an Alpha VMS system?    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2002 02:16:57 GMT 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> # Subject: Re: asynch device on alpha ' Message-ID: <3D3F6426.E2C8F3E4@fsi.net>    "John N." wrote: > I > Is there such a thing?  Is a terminal server the only way to address an / > asych/serial device from an Alpha VMS system?   > Beyond COM1/COM2, there once were third-party async. muxes for OVMS-capable systems.   @ Does Digi still have their stuff and their OVMS drivers for 'em?  " There may yet be other Mfr.'s. ...  H My personal take is that term. servers are still the best way to go, but that's just me.   @ YMMV, no purchase necessary, see store display for details, someH restrictions apply, not available in all areas, void where prohibited by law, ...   --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2002 23:03:07 +0100 ; From: "Colin Butcher" <colinDOT.butcher@xdeltaDOT.coDOT.uk> . Subject: Re: BACKUP to remote disk via DECNET?> Message-ID: <zuF%8.1509$z22.1198@news-binary.blueyonder.co.uk>  F If this is a frequent requirement and you don't have space to buffer aG saveset on disc (or even better space for both the saveset and a ZIPped J saveset [to reduce network bandwidth consumption]) then use DECdfs to makeI the discs visible to the remote system as if they are local discs. DECdfs L uses access points (not to be confused with wireless LAN 'access points') toF present discs or some part of the file structure to other nodes on theI network as if they are locally attached discs. You need to set up proxies I between the systems for the various users (which get cached by DECdfs for K speed in the 'persona cache'). Works a treat. Once you have DECdfs in place K then just use BACKUP as if you were moving directory trees between directly  attached discs.   G With DECnet Phase V (DECnet/OSI and DECnet-Plus) I've found BACKUP over I DECdfs to work better with the NSP transport layer than the OSI transport  layer.   -- Hope this helps. Colin # (colinDOTbutcherATxdeltaDOTcoDOTuk)     6 "Ransom Fitch" <rlfitch@peakpeak.com> wrote in message* news:001101c23329$e8c55f40$0a00a8c0@w2k...H > I need to copy files (and directory structure!) to a remote disk (LAN,I > non-clustered) via DECNET.  Is there a way to use the BACKUP utility to  > do this?  Using VMS 6.2. > 	 > Thanks,  > Ransom Fitch >    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2002 22:35:05 -0500 . From: Lyndon Bartels <lbartels@pressenter.com>" Subject: burst of CI errors. Help.. Message-ID: <3D3F2B99.710C3852@pressenter.com>  ) I've run across a puzzling set of errors.   < axp VMS v7.3. All the latest ECOs. (up to about 10 days ago)   2 ES40s in a cluster.   E Fully redundant CI configuration. (dual CIPCAs per ES40, dual HSJs in 7 each storage subsystem. A & B paths, fully connnected.)   F Anyway, I rebooted them Monday evening to turn off Xtended File Cache.& (One had been crashing because of it.)  E They ran fine through Monday night, all day Tuesday, Tuesday evening, E and into Wednesday morning. WHen I did a "$ Show Error" I got a clean > response. (Except for errors on the DQB0 device, but those are
 "normal.")  D This morning, all of a sudden, one ES40 comes back with 50 errors onD PNA0, 8 on PNB0. The other ES40 reported 28 erros on PNA0, and 14 on PNB0.   F Looking at the errorlog, all these multitude of errors happened in theG span of 2 minutes. Both nodes. Same time. All of the errors are changes A in cable status. "Path #1" status "GOOD to BAD" or "BAD to GOOD".   6 No errors on any disks. The HSJs all seem to be happy.  C Best I can come up is, something occured to "trigger" this barrage.   D Looking at the errlog some more on one node (28 & 14 errors) no HSJs were mentioned.   G Looking at the other node, (50 and 8 errors) two HSJs were mentioned as  part of the "remote address."     F At about that time, some Oracle stuff was running, but these computers6 are *NOT* very busy. They're our development machines.  A I called Colorado, and they looked at the logs without much help. G "Something's wrong with Path B." Well, I knew that. But I don't want to C replace a part unless I know it's truly bad.... Or. I have a way of  replicating the event.  ! So... I have a few questions.....    Any thoughts on the errors?   ! What else should I be looking at?   @ How can I test a specific path in CI, from one point to another?  0 Has anybody heard of the Star Coupler going bad?       Thanks in advance,   Lyndon   --  G My opinions are mine and mine alone. They seldom align with those of my 	 employer.     H The only good thing about putting the cart before the horse is you don't! have to look at the horse's butt.    ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2002 18:01:44 GMT ( From: Don Sykes <annonymous@pacbell.net>A Subject: Re: COBOL Calling C -- Handling Args Passed by Reference + Message-ID: <3D3EEBDF.C2D7C9BE@pacbell.net>    jrbrady@mindspring.com wrote:  >  > All, > F > Recently I started a project to implement two utility programs in C.E > The utilities were originally written in VAX MACRO and I decided to H > rewrite them instead of porting the MACRO code to OpenVMS Alpha. BeingG > new to the world of C, I'd greatly appreciate ideas for improving the : > way in which the arguments are handled by the C program. > I > The utility programs are passed a fairly complex data structure and two G > single-byte character strings by reference.  The data structure is of J > varying size depending on the number of repeating field groups followingH > several fixed fields.  I defined a nested structure for the groups andH > point to it; incrementing the structure pointer allows access to each,K > but it's up to the program to prevent incrementing into unrelated memory. D > There might be a better way to do this.  There are pointers to twoK > character strings, and the way in which I construct the string descriptor J > using a separate function seems rather convoluted.  Finally, the utilityD > programs are called on an interactive basis and must be efficient. > M How do you plan on declaring a varying size structure in Cobol? AFAIK varying 9 size in Cobol means "determine the size at compile time". N I've done a number of such inter-language calls, with simpler param lists, andM things are fine if you remember that the default passing mechanism in C is by K value and the default passing mechanism in Cobol is by reference (pointer). O Since you mention that it must also be fast, you may consider mapping the whole O thing into a global section, instead of allocating it in stack memory, but this 3 would be much more involved - synchronization, etc.  --     Have VMS. Will Travel. Wire Paladin (@alphase.com) 
 San Francisco    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2002 00:53:55 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> $ Subject: Corporate email directories, Message-ID: <3D3F8454.6478B964@videotron.ca>  L With VMS now out of the corporate email business, an area it used to be veryH present in, what do corporations use now to provide corporate routing of1 inbound emails to the right departmental server ?   L For instance, if I send an email to Carly.Fiorina@hp.com , how does the SMTPL server at hp.com get to know how to route the email to whatever departmental( server where Carly's emails are stored ?  @ Would corporations tend to use one gateway from internet to someG internal/oproprietary system such as Exchange, or would they have their K corporate backbone as SMTP servers that deliver to proprietary departmental 	 servers ?   G Do current email systems provide for easy management of a central email M directory which allows first.last@company.com to be routed to the right dept.  server ?  I In the sepcific case of hp and compaq (and digital), were the 2 companies I using the same corporate backbones that were easy to merge, or was that a  monumental task ?    ------------------------------   Date: 24 Jul 2002 21:05:57 GMT2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)L Subject: Re: Custom DECwindows Display? (was: Re: Security Banner displayed)* Message-ID: <ahn4rl$fuh$2@web1.cup.hp.com>  T In article <ahj659$bje$1@news1.kornet.net>, "David Lee" <phongle@kornet.net> writes:J :Does anyone know how to display a "Warning Message Displayed" everytime aL :user log in to the computer.  The warning message probably a 100 words long* :and has icon of "Agree" as a default item  I   When posting, please include platform and version information.  Thanks! I   (Two-sentence questions can be surprisingly difficult to answer, as the C   question can be quite (and entirely unintentionally!) ambiguous.)   I   By "icon", this implies DECwindows, which means that SYLOGIN might not  I   work for you -- prompting within SYLOGIN and LOGIN (via INQUIRE or via  H   READ) as been known to cause problems for DECwindows logins.  (If you G   choose this root, make SURE you do not prompt at any time other than  I   during an interactive login -- and this determination isn't as easy as     it might initially look.)   E   One potential approach here is to display something as a background F   image at the DECwindows login box -- details on how to customize theF   login background are in the OpenVMS FAQ.    If you set this up as a E   command procedure, it can run pretty much whatever you want for an  G   X Windows application.  That said, this doesn't give you the "accept" 3   box that you want, just the standard login box...   G   You could also look inside SYS$STARTUP:DECW$STARTSM.COM for comments  F   on another possibility; specifically, on the DECW$SESSIONCOM symbol.F   (You'll probably want to then chain to DECW$STARTSM.COM -- this willE   start the session manager -- or you will want to punt the login via 6   something like DECW$ENDSESSION.EXE, as appropriate.)  D   If you are using CDE and the New Desktop, things may (will?) vary.  I   AFAIK, the LGI callouts are another option, as these should be invoked  H   by the DECwindows login (as well as by the standard LOGIN).  (I've notK   tried the LGI stuff with DECwindows.)  For some details, see the utility  +   routines manual in the documentation set.   N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------N       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.com    N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2002 11:10:11 -0700 + From: "Barry Treahy, Jr." <Treahy@mmaz.com> 3 Subject: Re: DiskXcel vs OpenVMS 7.3 read cacheing? ' Message-ID: <3D3EED83.5090402@mmaz.com>    Keith Brown wrote:   >Hi all, > D >I would like to solicit opinions  on which read caching product is K >preferred by this group for OpenVMS Alpha systems. I have an I/O bottle I  J >am trying to cure (read performance). I'm currently running V7.2-1 on an I >ES40 with 4GB ram and dual HSZ70's with 64MB writeback cache.  Should I  L >upgrade to V7.3-1 and hope that helps or purchase a 3rd party product like 8 >DiskXcel from Networking Dynamics, I/O Express, others? > I I'm partial toward Raxco's PerfectCache.  In the testing that we did, it  F did great when compared to the resident caching but I'd recommend you 0 obtain demos and bench it in your environment...   Regards,   Barry    --    @ Barry Treahy, Jr  *  Midwest Microwave  *  Vice President & CIO   A E-mail: Treahy@mmaz.com * Phone: 480/314-1320 * FAX: 480/661-7028    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2002 18:37:22 -0400   From: Kuff@Tessco.Com (Hal Kuff)1 Subject: Re: How to access Oracle with DEC PascaluO Message-ID: <0AB6EEF8ACDFD533.FD18B36A68B5E292.D984C5303E4CDD8E@lp.airnews.net>e  $ Hey Ruslan... you can help this guy!    F In article <Pine.OSF.4.21.0207240757580.3788-100000@athena.csdco.com>,# John Nebel <nebel@csdco.com> wrote:o  ; > On Tue, 23 Jul 2002, Christian [iso-8859-1] M=FCck wrote:: >  > > Hello all, > >=20H > > I would like to know how to access an Oracle-DB (not Rdb) from a DECL > > Pascal application. I did not find any information about precompilers or6 > > so on the net. Is there a way to use Rdb Sqlmod's?9 > > We currently use DEC Pascal V5.5-51 and Oracle 8.1.7.l > >=20 > > Any suggestions ?o > >=20
 > > Thanks	 > > Chrisn > >=20 > >=20 >  > Chris, > K > Any VMS language (assuming it generates standard calls) should be able to H > use the Oracle Call Interface.  It was a bit of a pain getting startedJ > because all the examples are in C which I know very little.  After that, > Fortran worked fine. > 5 > Having a hard copy of the OCI manual really helped.v >  > John Nebel   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2002 18:14:24 -0400e* From: "Liu liang hua" <llhua@sympatico.ca>R Subject: How to associate a service created in latcp with a executable application; Message-ID: <vPE%8.10544$sb5.1087337@news20.bellglobal.com>S  ' I appreciate everybody who give me helpp   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2002 18:16:24 -0400n* From: "Liu liang hua" <llhua@sympatico.ca>R Subject: How to associate a service created in latcp with a executable application; Message-ID: <nRE%8.10546$sb5.1087772@news20.bellglobal.com>"  ' I appreciate everybody who give me helpt   ------------------------------    Date: 24 Jul 2002 12:21:51 -0700, From: colive@technologEase.com (Chris Olive)4 Subject: How to setup a VMS development environment?= Message-ID: <b10654c6.0207241121.575437f3@posting.google.com>p  B Well, this question should generate some lively discussion...  8-)  E I've setup very successful and security conscious VMS (VAX and Alpha) E development shops at about, oh say, 7 different places in my 14 yearse= in VMS, including the US Government (DoD) and some Fortune 50 > companies (Siemens- and GE-sized companies for example).  Some; development environments involved kernal-mode systems-level 3 programming, and some just application development.o  D Let's just pretend I know little to nothing about VMS development --D I'm a CIO, for instance.  Can anyone comment in general on how a VMSD development environment should be set up?  I've got programmers thatD are clamouring for certain VMS privileges, but I'm a little hesitantE to hand them out.  I know enough about VMS to know what some of theseoA privileges do (but not completely), and so I'm a bit concerned...nD (Still pretending I'm the CIO.)  Are privileges REALLY necessary forE proper VMS development?  Can't they just use TMPMBX and NETMBX like a % normal user and still do development?   B <Pop back to the real me> Personally, I've NEVER done development,E even of application code (ie. non-systems code) without at least SOMEtD privileges.  I fully realize that specifically WHAT privileges wouldB depend on what was the intended end-application.  I'm just saying,D I've never developed anything of real import in VMS without at least SOME privileges.  C Can anyone out there comment?  Does anyone have developers that arerE developing with essentially no (zero, none) elevated privileges?  I'msD in a situation that simply boggles my mind, and I'm just looking forC some feedback here without getting into the specifics at my present D place of employment.  I've always felt the "norm" for VMS developersE was they were above a normal user in the VMS food chain, and a littleM< below or equal to (in power) a system manager (from an upper> management vantage point -- we all know serious developers canF outstrip some system managers by far.)  Again, I realize every site isF a bit different and there are variables (experience, attitude, skills,F etc.)  I'm looking for a general feel.  At the very least confirmation. that developers are NOT "normal system users."   Am I just going NUTS or what?a   Thanks for playing...3 Chris  -----  Chris Olivei colive(at)technologEase(dot)com    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2002 15:41:01 -0400o! From: Jim Agnew <jpagnew@vcu.edu>t8 Subject: Re: How to setup a VMS development environment?' Message-ID: <3D3F02CD.4476EDBB@vcu.edu>-  G No, you're NOT going nuts.. Here at MCV Neurosurgery, the large part ofv development was 2-fold:o  G 1.  Real-time data acquistion.  Need for physical access to i/o spaces,.G registers, and real-time priority. the account was marked DEVOUR in theaB authorize listings. this was me. WITH USERS ON THE SYSTEM, TOO... G needless to say, we were carefull.  plus the sysamdin was understandingt& when the inevitable FINALLY happened.   D 2.  database work/queries/research simulations.  Need for ability toE ignore disk space quotas, cpu limits, etc.. I forget what the accounts was marked... ;-)e  C 3.  Normal users, mail, edt, runoff, we had users who did papers insD runoff.  thost were the days...  etc... tmpmbx, no netmbx til telnet	 came in..s  E This was a team of 3 people, sysadmin and data manager who did it all  and also did queries.eE one real-time systems analyst who also did data stuff.  the users did.< feel the stress oN the poor VAX sometimes, but we all lived.  H most of my development is done w/o privs, and when i bump into somethingF I need more, I give it to myself for the duration.  I do sysadmin workF w/o privs for the most part. keeps me outta trouble. (most of the time ;-D )    Jimm   Chris Olive wrote: > D > Well, this question should generate some lively discussion...  8-) > G > I've setup very successful and security conscious VMS (VAX and Alpha)sG > development shops at about, oh say, 7 different places in my 14 yearso? > in VMS, including the US Government (DoD) and some Fortune 50i@ > companies (Siemens- and GE-sized companies for example).  Some= > development environments involved kernal-mode systems-levelc5 > programming, and some just application development.e > F > Let's just pretend I know little to nothing about VMS development --F > I'm a CIO, for instance.  Can anyone comment in general on how a VMSF > development environment should be set up?  I've got programmers thatF > are clamouring for certain VMS privileges, but I'm a little hesitantG > to hand them out.  I know enough about VMS to know what some of theselC > privileges do (but not completely), and so I'm a bit concerned... F > (Still pretending I'm the CIO.)  Are privileges REALLY necessary forG > proper VMS development?  Can't they just use TMPMBX and NETMBX like a ' > normal user and still do development?r > D > <Pop back to the real me> Personally, I've NEVER done development,G > even of application code (ie. non-systems code) without at least SOME F > privileges.  I fully realize that specifically WHAT privileges wouldD > depend on what was the intended end-application.  I'm just saying,F > I've never developed anything of real import in VMS without at least > SOME privileges. > E > Can anyone out there comment?  Does anyone have developers that are.G > developing with essentially no (zero, none) elevated privileges?  I'mIF > in a situation that simply boggles my mind, and I'm just looking forE > some feedback here without getting into the specifics at my presentyF > place of employment.  I've always felt the "norm" for VMS developersG > was they were above a normal user in the VMS food chain, and a littlee> > below or equal to (in power) a system manager (from an upper@ > management vantage point -- we all know serious developers canH > outstrip some system managers by far.)  Again, I realize every site isH > a bit different and there are variables (experience, attitude, skills,H > etc.)  I'm looking for a general feel.  At the very least confirmation0 > that developers are NOT "normal system users." >  > Am I just going NUTS or what?r >  > Thanks for playing...u > Chris# > ----- 
 > Chris Oliver! > colive(at)technologEase(dot)comy   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2002 20:16:29 GMTg2 From: Dave S <dave.senestraro@zxc.xx.solveris.com>8 Subject: Re: How to setup a VMS development environment?3 Message-ID: <3D3F0ABE.F4CCEEA5@zxc.xx.solveris.com>d  E I setup and done dev a number of times and find that most of the time I developers do NOT need any elevated privs (now they will claim they do!!)rH I have always taken the approach that if you believe you need privs tellH me why (and not just because its easier). This also forces the developerI to understand why privs are needed. I have found that in most cases privsnH are not needed. Once you open the door on giveing privs its very hard to shut.e  H There are times if you are developing low level code you will need them,: but that is really rare for business application type code   dave   Chris Olive wrote:  D > Well, this question should generate some lively discussion...  8-) > G > I've setup very successful and security conscious VMS (VAX and Alpha)tG > development shops at about, oh say, 7 different places in my 14 yearst? > in VMS, including the US Government (DoD) and some Fortune 50 @ > companies (Siemens- and GE-sized companies for example).  Some= > development environments involved kernal-mode systems-level:5 > programming, and some just application development.  >sF > Let's just pretend I know little to nothing about VMS development --F > I'm a CIO, for instance.  Can anyone comment in general on how a VMSF > development environment should be set up?  I've got programmers thatF > are clamouring for certain VMS privileges, but I'm a little hesitantG > to hand them out.  I know enough about VMS to know what some of theseaC > privileges do (but not completely), and so I'm a bit concerned... F > (Still pretending I'm the CIO.)  Are privileges REALLY necessary forG > proper VMS development?  Can't they just use TMPMBX and NETMBX like at' > normal user and still do development?i >oD > <Pop back to the real me> Personally, I've NEVER done development,G > even of application code (ie. non-systems code) without at least SOMEeF > privileges.  I fully realize that specifically WHAT privileges wouldD > depend on what was the intended end-application.  I'm just saying,F > I've never developed anything of real import in VMS without at least > SOME privileges. > E > Can anyone out there comment?  Does anyone have developers that areeG > developing with essentially no (zero, none) elevated privileges?  I'm F > in a situation that simply boggles my mind, and I'm just looking forE > some feedback here without getting into the specifics at my presentnF > place of employment.  I've always felt the "norm" for VMS developersG > was they were above a normal user in the VMS food chain, and a littler> > below or equal to (in power) a system manager (from an upper@ > management vantage point -- we all know serious developers canH > outstrip some system managers by far.)  Again, I realize every site isH > a bit different and there are variables (experience, attitude, skills,H > etc.)  I'm looking for a general feel.  At the very least confirmation0 > that developers are NOT "normal system users." >e > Am I just going NUTS or what?- >- > Thanks for playing...e > Chris  > -----0
 > Chris Olive ! > colive(at)technologEase(dot)come   ------------------------------  + Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2002 21:15:29 +0000 (UTC)v- From: lewis@spyder.mitre.org (Keith A. Lewis)t8 Subject: Re: How to setup a VMS development environment?. Message-ID: <ahn5dh$613$1@newslocal.mitre.org>   colive@technologEase.com (Chris Olive) writes in article <b10654c6.0207241121.575437f3@posting.google.com> dated 24 Jul 2002 12:21:51 -0700:- >Can't they just use TMPMBX and NETMBX like a & >normal user and still do development?  @ The users in my shop get only the privs they need.  For example:   * Admins get SETPRVt  J * Developers get DEVELOP, a rights identifier that allows them to write to' the development disks and CMS librariest  E * Requirements writers get nothing -- all they can do is run the appss  L Unless somebody's writing code that really does something to the system, youH can usually work it out so that they don't need privileges.  If somebodyH says they need SYSNAM in order to write a system-level logical, considerJ putting an ACL on that table instead.  If they need to mount CD-ROMs, make the CD-ROM drive WORLD:WRLP.   MHO of course.  + --Keith Lewis              klewis$mitre.orga> The above may not (yet) represent the opinions of my employer.   ------------------------------    Date: 24 Jul 2002 16:13:23 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)98 Subject: Re: How to setup a VMS development environment?3 Message-ID: <LeC7RnYOu16q@eisner.encompasserve.org>   l In article <b10654c6.0207241121.575437f3@posting.google.com>, colive@technologEase.com (Chris Olive) writes:  F > Let's just pretend I know little to nothing about VMS development --F > I'm a CIO, for instance.  Can anyone comment in general on how a VMSF > development environment should be set up?  I've got programmers thatF > are clamouring for certain VMS privileges, but I'm a little hesitantG > to hand them out.  I know enough about VMS to know what some of theserC > privileges do (but not completely), and so I'm a bit concerned...eF > (Still pretending I'm the CIO.)  Are privileges REALLY necessary forG > proper VMS development?  Can't they just use TMPMBX and NETMBX like a ' > normal user and still do development?o  D That is sufficient for writing programs that do not need privileges.C I have a program I am working on that requires privileges to accessDE certain data, so I have made a copy of the data to be able to programuD without having privileges.  On that cluster I have SETPRV but rarelyH use it.  If I need privilege, I have failed in my cluster configuration.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2002 14:44:49 -0700n5 From: "Kenneth H. Fairfield" <My.Full.Name@intel.com>l8 Subject: Re: How to setup a VMS development environment?) Message-ID: <3D3F1FD1.7030F1B3@intel.com>e   Chris Olive wrote:   > [...]l  E > Can anyone out there comment?  Does anyone have developers that arehG > developing with essentially no (zero, none) elevated privileges?  I'm F > in a situation that simply boggles my mind, and I'm just looking forE > some feedback here without getting into the specifics at my present F > place of employment.  I've always felt the "norm" for VMS developersG > was they were above a normal user in the VMS food chain, and a little > > below or equal to (in power) a system manager (from an upper@ > management vantage point -- we all know serious developers canH > outstrip some system managers by far.)  Again, I realize every site isH > a bit different and there are variables (experience, attitude, skills,H > etc.)  I'm looking for a general feel.  At the very least confirmation0 > that developers are NOT "normal system users."  C     I'd agree with what _both_ Jim and Dave said in response.  I'veuA spent my whole career in development environments. :-)  Some just A granted privileges to developers.  That was not one of the better  examples...0  >     The place where I think they did the best job, most of the> development cycle required _no_ elevated privileges.  At finalB release (for "customer" testing), a shared, or "faceless", accountB _with_ privileges was used.  The developers were pretty good (readB "disciplined") about not using that account except when needed for" releases or process restarts, etc.  A     Again, if your product requires privileges to run (because ofeB hardware access or whatever), it should be easy to justify why youD need those privilges, either in your development account, or through( access to a separate privileged account.       -Ken --6 I don't speak for Intel, Intel doesn't speak for me...  
 Ken Fairfieldr! F20 Automation VMS System SupportM kenneth.h.fairfield#intel.comd   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2002 17:50:21 -04007( From: David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>8 Subject: Re: How to setup a VMS development environment?, Message-ID: <3D3F211D.6030801@tsoft-inc.com>   > Chris Olive wrote: > D >>Well, this question should generate some lively discussion...  8-) >>G >>I've setup very successful and security conscious VMS (VAX and Alpha)2G >>development shops at about, oh say, 7 different places in my 14 yearsw? >>in VMS, including the US Government (DoD) and some Fortune 50o@ >>companies (Siemens- and GE-sized companies for example).  Some= >>development environments involved kernal-mode systems-leveln5 >>programming, and some just application development.  >>F >>Let's just pretend I know little to nothing about VMS development --F >>I'm a CIO, for instance.  Can anyone comment in general on how a VMSF >>development environment should be set up?  I've got programmers thatF >>are clamouring for certain VMS privileges, but I'm a little hesitantG >>to hand them out.  I know enough about VMS to know what some of these C >>privileges do (but not completely), and so I'm a bit concerned...tF >>(Still pretending I'm the CIO.)  Are privileges REALLY necessary forG >>proper VMS development?  Can't they just use TMPMBX and NETMBX like aa' >>normal user and still do development?m >>D >><Pop back to the real me> Personally, I've NEVER done development,G >>even of application code (ie. non-systems code) without at least SOME4F >>privileges.  I fully realize that specifically WHAT privileges wouldD >>depend on what was the intended end-application.  I'm just saying,F >>I've never developed anything of real import in VMS without at least >>SOME privileges. >>E >>Can anyone out there comment?  Does anyone have developers that are6G >>developing with essentially no (zero, none) elevated privileges?  I'meF >>in a situation that simply boggles my mind, and I'm just looking forE >>some feedback here without getting into the specifics at my presentuF >>place of employment.  I've always felt the "norm" for VMS developersG >>was they were above a normal user in the VMS food chain, and a littlel> >>below or equal to (in power) a system manager (from an upper@ >>management vantage point -- we all know serious developers canH >>outstrip some system managers by far.)  Again, I realize every site isH >>a bit different and there are variables (experience, attitude, skills,H >>etc.)  I'm looking for a general feel.  At the very least confirmation0 >>that developers are NOT "normal system users."     Developers are not all equal.o   Development is not all equal.e   There is no 'one' answer.s  $ But then, you knew that, didn't you?  P At the extreme end, if you have anyone doing KERNEL mode or EXEC mode work, and P you do not have them on an isolated system, at least for the initial work, then L you're (insert the worst comment you know here).  Why?  Crashing the system M while others are doing any type of work just isn't a good idea.  Buy a cheap  M workstation on E-Bay and be done with it.  The user account(s) they use will u" have all privs.  No reason not to.  N For serious development work, it's not just programming.  It's setting up the M structure(s) for data files, program sources, executables, libraries, shared tQ images, and such.  If you don't have some privs, you don't do this type of work.  G   Since such people will need flexibility, so why not SETPRV.  You are nP interested in efficiency, aren't you?  Note that this work will NOT happen on a  production system.  Q Now, if you're in a rather controlled environment, where developers are assigned eO specific tasks, and shouldn't have access to other parts of the application or  M system, then things become more interesting.  Using a code management system  N becomes reasonable.  Using other than the developer to check out the new work N may be a requirement.  Restricting access to everything may be a requirement. > Now you may have people with user accounts that have no privs.  O For me, the systems are all mine.  I set them up, I have total access, and the n* following symbol is in my LOGIN.COM files.   $ PV :== set process/priv=all   h At my customer sites, the user account I use has full privs.  I am part of the 'trusted administration'.    N Note that at all sites there has to be some 'trusted administration', of some Q sort.  Maybe it takes two or more to make changes, but the 'trusted entity' must (K exist.  How much security for such really depends upon the application.  A  P sporting goods distributor doesn't see a spy everywhere they look.  Sandia Labs + needs to be careful about Chinese visitors.6  w The challenge is to define the risk vs efficiency and cost.  Do that, and the question about privs is already answered.    Dave   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2002 18:18:20 -0400d- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>O8 Subject: Re: How to setup a VMS development environment?, Message-ID: <3D3F27AA.6C943D99@videotron.ca>   Chris Olive wrote:F > development environment should be set up?  I've got programmers thatF > are clamouring for certain VMS privileges, but I'm a little hesitant > to hand them out.   I Do you have a test environment that can afford to go down ? This is wherelN inexpensive workstations running VMS are so important. If a project requires aM programmer to have elevated privs, then he should have his own workstation he + can crash at will without affecting others.d  G There are definitely privs that are reasonable to expect when writing adN server. For instance, to declare a DECNET object, you need SYSNAM. If you wantC to play with the lock manager in certain ways, you may need SYSLCK.m  N If I were system manager, I would have to look at a project's architecture andC from there judge exactly what privs are required and which aren't.    M There are ways to avoid giving the interactive session used by the programmergF those privs, for instance by creating network objects that run under a4 different username which the programmer can trigger.  M For batch, you can submit a whole bunch of jobs that are on hold and will rundM under a prived username, and the programmer is granted access to the queue sosL he can do SET ENTRY/NOHOLD to start a job. (and he can use COPY/OVERWRITE to. update the batch file that is to be executed).  N On the other hand, giving the programmer those accesses is still tantamount toG giving him those privs, so is it worth the extra trouble to you are the  programmer ?   ------------------------------    Date: 24 Jul 2002 17:31:44 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)i8 Subject: Re: How to setup a VMS development environment?3 Message-ID: <JY0Ja7quYBnd@eisner.encompasserve.org>r  W In article <3D3F211D.6030801@tsoft-inc.com>, David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> writes:h  j > At my customer sites, the user account I use has full privs.  I am part of the 'trusted administration'. >  > P > Note that at all sites there has to be some 'trusted administration', of some S > sort.  Maybe it takes two or more to make changes, but the 'trusted entity' must   > exist.  F When I manage security on a machine there may be users trusted to haveF access to privileges, but no users are trusted to have them enabled by! default -- and that includes me !y  4 So the basic setup for a "fully privileged" user is:   	TMPMBX  	NETMBXn 	OPERt 	SETPRVm  4 in both the authorized and default masks of the UAF.   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2002 23:04:24 GMTtL From: winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU ("Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr")8 Subject: Re: How to setup a VMS development environment?8 Message-ID: <00A116B4.3E668BAE@SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>  l In article <b10654c6.0207241121.575437f3@posting.google.com>, colive@technologEase.com (Chris Olive) writes:C >Well, this question should generate some lively discussion...  8-)e >l  D >Can anyone out there comment?  Does anyone have developers that areF >developing with essentially no (zero, none) elevated privileges?  I'mE >in a situation that simply boggles my mind, and I'm just looking foreD >some feedback here without getting into the specifics at my presentE >place of employment.  I've always felt the "norm" for VMS developerspF >was they were above a normal user in the VMS food chain, and a little= >below or equal to (in power) a system manager (from an upperu? >management vantage point -- we all know serious developers caniG >outstrip some system managers by far.)  Again, I realize every site is-G >a bit different and there are variables (experience, attitude, skills,mG >etc.)  I'm looking for a general feel.  At the very least confirmatione/ >that developers are NOT "normal system users."   J In all my years as a VMS developer, I've also been the system manager, so / had access to all the privileges I ever wanted.c  I However, I did have a junior developer for a couple of years who was ablesI to do successful application development with no elevated privileges.  (I G did have to set up ACL structures and grant her account the appropriateoG ACLs for things like database construction, but she only had NETMBX andt0 TMPBMX.)  These were all user-mode applications.   -- Alano    O ===============================================================================d0  Alan Winston --- WINSTON@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDUM  Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056lM  Physical mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 69, PO BOX 4349, STANFORD, CA  94309-0210EO ===============================================================================m   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2002 23:15:27 GMT 0 From: "Matt Muggeridge" <Matt.Muggeridge@hp.com>8 Subject: Re: How to setup a VMS development environment?A Message-ID: <jyG%8.487851$o66.1319781@news-server.bigpond.net.au>   G In my user-level and system-level coding experience I have not *needed*VL privs to do my work.  However, to setup such an environment has also taken aF lot of work and maintenance.  You haven't described exactly what theirL complaints are, but perhaps the environment they have inherited is difficultJ to work in without privs.  Perhaps it is the environment that needs fixing0 and turning on privs is just a quick workaround?   Matt.l  9 "Chris Olive" <colive@technologEase.com> wrote in messageV7 news:b10654c6.0207241121.575437f3@posting.google.com...-D > Well, this question should generate some lively discussion...  8-) > G > I've setup very successful and security conscious VMS (VAX and Alpha)-G > development shops at about, oh say, 7 different places in my 14 yearsm? > in VMS, including the US Government (DoD) and some Fortune 50e@ > companies (Siemens- and GE-sized companies for example).  Some= > development environments involved kernal-mode systems-level'5 > programming, and some just application development.' >uF > Let's just pretend I know little to nothing about VMS development --F > I'm a CIO, for instance.  Can anyone comment in general on how a VMSF > development environment should be set up?  I've got programmers thatF > are clamouring for certain VMS privileges, but I'm a little hesitantG > to hand them out.  I know enough about VMS to know what some of thesenC > privileges do (but not completely), and so I'm a bit concerned...tF > (Still pretending I'm the CIO.)  Are privileges REALLY necessary forG > proper VMS development?  Can't they just use TMPMBX and NETMBX like ar' > normal user and still do development?  >tD > <Pop back to the real me> Personally, I've NEVER done development,G > even of application code (ie. non-systems code) without at least SOMEoF > privileges.  I fully realize that specifically WHAT privileges wouldD > depend on what was the intended end-application.  I'm just saying,F > I've never developed anything of real import in VMS without at least > SOME privileges. >.E > Can anyone out there comment?  Does anyone have developers that are4G > developing with essentially no (zero, none) elevated privileges?  I'm0F > in a situation that simply boggles my mind, and I'm just looking forE > some feedback here without getting into the specifics at my present.F > place of employment.  I've always felt the "norm" for VMS developersG > was they were above a normal user in the VMS food chain, and a littleM> > below or equal to (in power) a system manager (from an upper@ > management vantage point -- we all know serious developers canH > outstrip some system managers by far.)  Again, I realize every site isH > a bit different and there are variables (experience, attitude, skills,H > etc.)  I'm looking for a general feel.  At the very least confirmation0 > that developers are NOT "normal system users." >i > Am I just going NUTS or what?  >- > Thanks for playing...k > Chrisr > -----h
 > Chris Olive ! > colive(at)technologEase(dot)come   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2002 20:57:08 +01006+ From: "antonio.carlini" <arcarlini@iee.org>l8 Subject: Re: How to setup a VMS development environment?& Message-ID: <3D3F0694.9020508@iee.org>   Chris Olive wrote:  F > I'm a CIO, for instance.  Can anyone comment in general on how a VMSF > development environment should be set up?  I've got programmers thatF > are clamouring for certain VMS privileges, but I'm a little hesitant > to hand them out.     " Good - you should remain hesitant.  G > proper VMS development?  Can't they just use TMPMBX and NETMBX like an' > normal user and still do development?t    & That's almost certainly all they need.   > D > <Pop back to the real me> Personally, I've NEVER done development,G > even of application code (ie. non-systems code) without at least SOMEe
 > privileges.a    @ I can only assume that you had only one system available and it ? had to serve as both your development machine and test machine.u    E > Can anyone out there comment?  Does anyone have developers that aremG > developing with essentially no (zero, none) elevated privileges?  I'mh    A All the developers when I was working back in REO had no elevatedi@ privs. There were test machines available for testing and there > were obviously no restrictions there. Prived accounts existed = because devos would double up doing system management at odd 0= hours of the day (when there was no cover from the real adminu4 folks) but these accounts were not used for testing.    ? Unless you can find a reason that your developers really *need* A privs, they should not have them. Give them test machines to playo on.t   Antonio    -- i   --------------- - Antonio Carlini             arcarlini@iee.orgn   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2002 21:38:56 -0400f- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> 8 Subject: Re: How to setup a VMS development environment?, Message-ID: <3D3F56AE.63BA9E06@videotron.ca>   Larry Kilgallen wrote:H > When I manage security on a machine there may be users trusted to haveH > access to privileges, but no users are trusted to have them enabled by# > default -- and that includes me !m  J While the above may prevent ~some~ accidental errors, is that considered a security measure ? e   Here is a question:   M Are there sites where a system manager will temporarily grant privileges to adJ programmer to test for a day or two and then widthdraw said privileges ? IK know that this has happpened to me on certain occasions. Upon completing myvP test, I would email back the system manager to advise my privs could be removed.   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2002 02:27:43 GMTs1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> 8 Subject: Re: How to setup a VMS development environment?' Message-ID: <3D3F66AC.58093882@fsi.net>    JF Mezei wrote:a >  > Larry Kilgallen wrote:J > > When I manage security on a machine there may be users trusted to haveJ > > access to privileges, but no users are trusted to have them enabled by% > > default -- and that includes me !  > L > While the above may prevent ~some~ accidental errors, is that considered a > security measure ? >  > Here is a question:r > O > Are there sites where a system manager will temporarily grant privileges to aeL > programmer to test for a day or two and then widthdraw said privileges ? IM > know that this has happpened to me on certain occasions. Upon completing myaR > test, I would email back the system manager to advise my privs could be removed.  B All too often, that's how the product ships - requiring outlandishG privilege. They never took the time to discover and document the actualeA security requirements so systems in the field could be secure yett functional.s   *HEARTFELT SIGH*   --   David J. Dachtera2 dba DJE Systemsh http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2002 22:55:31 -0400p- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> 8 Subject: Re: How to setup a VMS development environment?, Message-ID: <3D3F689C.5102D72A@videotron.ca>   "antonio.carlini" wrote:A > Unless you can find a reason that your developers really *need*cC > privs, they should not have them. Give them test machines to playe > on.I  M Hence the need for low cost VMS machines. When Digital/Compaq decided to droplI efforts to make VMS available on low cost platforms, they made VMS a lessoN attractive platform to develop software on. Many shops have had to consolidateB development or just decide to develop new apps on other platforms.   ------------------------------  + Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2002 04:16:26 +0000 (UTC) % From: John Forkosh <john@invalid.com>m8 Subject: Re: How to setup a VMS development environment?, Message-ID: <ahnu2q$i18$1@reader3.panix.com>  * antonio.carlini <arcarlini@iee.org> wrote: : Chris Olive wrote:  I : > proper VMS development?  Can't they just use TMPMBX and NETMBX like at) : > normal user and still do development?>  ( : That's almost certainly all they need.  < I'd minimally add group privileges and readall to that list.9 I usually try to develop applications in their own group,>B and need to set up group logicals (and sometimes global sections),: etc.  So I always need group privileges on the development machine.@      And readall is very useful and not typically too dangerous.8 Trying to integrate my development with existing systems; means I have to study old code, look for libraries that may 7 be useful, etc.  To do a good job, I have to be able to + get a good feel for the entire environment.> -- e> John Forkosh  ( mailto:  j@f.com  where j=john and f=forkosh )   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2002 23:36:56 -0500 2 From: "Stuart Johnson" <ssj152 AT charter DOT net>8 Subject: Re: How to setup a VMS development environment?/ Message-ID: <ujv038q965fj29@corp.supernews.com>r   No, not nuts...m  G Since the others have discussed the problems and some workarounds, I'lllK mention an end-game trick: Limit the developers to an appropriate privilegetL level, have them document what privileges are truly necessary for the system> being developed. You may then choose to install ($INSTALL) theK application(s) with privilege, so that the end-user accounts do not requirerK any special privilege. User accounts will still need attention with regards  to quotas, etc.p  K Most systems I have worked with or designed have run with their logicals atlI the GROUP level, so GROUP and GRPNAM privileges are usually needed, alongsK with TMPMBX and NETMBX. GRPNAM isn't needed if the logicals are establishedoJ when the system boots, unless a programmer / tester wants to test a system! from an alternate directory tree.h  H I used a privilege system where my DEFAULT privileges were minimal & theK same as a "normal" user's account. I granted myself all possible privilegeswJ so that I could issue a "$set process/privilege=all" or similar command toI create directory structures, etc. when needed. We had a command procedureuJ "prv.com" that looked for a single parameter; if not found it did a "$showA process/privileges". If p1 was provided by the user, it did "$seteJ process/privilege='p1" Prv.com was setup in the developers login.com files and activated by typing "prv".   Regards, Stuart- ssj152 AT charter DOT net (should be obvious)l    9 "Chris Olive" <colive@technologEase.com> wrote in message 7 news:b10654c6.0207241121.575437f3@posting.google.com...eD > Well, this question should generate some lively discussion...  8-) >iG > I've setup very successful and security conscious VMS (VAX and Alpha) G > development shops at about, oh say, 7 different places in my 14 yearse? > in VMS, including the US Government (DoD) and some Fortune 50i@ > companies (Siemens- and GE-sized companies for example).  Some= > development environments involved kernal-mode systems-levela5 > programming, and some just application development.e >sF > Let's just pretend I know little to nothing about VMS development --F > I'm a CIO, for instance.  Can anyone comment in general on how a VMSF > development environment should be set up?  I've got programmers thatF > are clamouring for certain VMS privileges, but I'm a little hesitantG > to hand them out.  I know enough about VMS to know what some of these C > privileges do (but not completely), and so I'm a bit concerned...vF > (Still pretending I'm the CIO.)  Are privileges REALLY necessary forG > proper VMS development?  Can't they just use TMPMBX and NETMBX like ai' > normal user and still do development?n >hD > <Pop back to the real me> Personally, I've NEVER done development,G > even of application code (ie. non-systems code) without at least SOMEIF > privileges.  I fully realize that specifically WHAT privileges wouldD > depend on what was the intended end-application.  I'm just saying,F > I've never developed anything of real import in VMS without at least > SOME privileges. > E > Can anyone out there comment?  Does anyone have developers that arepG > developing with essentially no (zero, none) elevated privileges?  I'mwF > in a situation that simply boggles my mind, and I'm just looking forE > some feedback here without getting into the specifics at my present F > place of employment.  I've always felt the "norm" for VMS developersG > was they were above a normal user in the VMS food chain, and a littleu> > below or equal to (in power) a system manager (from an upper@ > management vantage point -- we all know serious developers canH > outstrip some system managers by far.)  Again, I realize every site isH > a bit different and there are variables (experience, attitude, skills,H > etc.)  I'm looking for a general feel.  At the very least confirmation0 > that developers are NOT "normal system users." >e > Am I just going NUTS or what?h >t > Thanks for playing...h > Chrisa > -----t
 > Chris Olive ! > colive(at)technologEase(dot)com-   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2002 07:40:57 +0200 - From: Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@Free.fr> 8 Subject: Re: How to setup a VMS development environment?' Message-ID: <3D3F8F69.814C711B@Free.fr>D   Chris Olive wrote: ../..,E > Can anyone out there comment?  Does anyone have developers that are B > developing with essentially no (zero, none) elevated privileges?   Course.n  O To develop, you just need access to your compiler, which is the case by default  at installation time.e  L Then, if you implement privileged actions from the operating system, you askG your system manager to install your image with the required privileges.e   Voil.  
 Opzatelps.   D.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2002 02:04:25 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>d8 Subject: Re: How to setup a VMS development environment?, Message-ID: <3D3F94D5.BD72AAE9@videotron.ca>   Didier Morandi wrote:-N > Then, if you implement privileged actions from the operating system, you askI > your system manager to install your image with the required privileges.   J Problem with this is the testing/debugging stage when you need to compile,L link, run, edit, compile, link, run, edit etc etc. Every time you recompile,' the new image needs to be re-installed.e  K Would it be acceptable to develop some software that runs in a process with L CMKRNL that has the ability to INSTALL/REPLACE known files based on requests coming from known users ?r  J (eg:upon generating a new .exe version, a user would send some request viaN mailbox or decnet to the software which would do the install/replace on behalf of the user.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2002 14:41:17 -0400p5 From: "Sue Skonetski" <susan.skonetski@hp.nospam.com>a9 Subject: Re: HP "OpenVMS Path to Itanium" Roadshow reportn* Message-ID: <ahmscj$eik$1@web1.cup.hp.com>  
 good one Davew< "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote in message! news:3D3CAF5D.BFBA1EA6@fsi.net...-& > "Webb, William W Raleigh, NC" wrote:
 > > [snip]; > > It came out that DEFCON is limiting attendance to linuxl > > boxes this year.  :^(m >oC > Well, yeah! I mean, how much humiliation can one person stand??!!r >s > -- > David J. Dachtera  > dba DJE Systemsa > http://www.djesys.com/ >h* > Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page:! > http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/u   ------------------------------    Date: 24 Jul 2002 16:49:05 -0700( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)9 Subject: Re: HP "OpenVMS Path to Itanium" Roadshow reporti= Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0207241549.3b66a7c4@posting.google.com>h  g "Sue Skonetski" <susan.skonetski@hp.nospam.com> wrote in message news:<ahmscj$eik$1@web1.cup.hp.com>...=  ? what I would like to know is why I still haven't been contactedo9 by hp about this event?  If not for someone on this boardo> posting it, I would along with some others I told never known!   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2002 01:22:58 GMT 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>=9 Subject: Re: HP "OpenVMS Path to Itanium" Roadshow report-& Message-ID: <3D3F577C.C461412@fsi.net>   Bob Ceculski wrote:d > i > "Sue Skonetski" <susan.skonetski@hp.nospam.com> wrote in message news:<ahmscj$eik$1@web1.cup.hp.com>...5 > A > what I would like to know is why I still haven't been contactede; > by hp about this event?  If not for someone on this boardy@ > posting it, I would along with some others I told never known!  H I mentioned that to the folks who gave the show here in Chgo. yesterday.@ (Sorry, didn't file a report, so this post is in lieu there of.)  A No brass, just "centurions" at best. Still, I made my case to Kime1 Leavitt, a marketing person from DEC days to now.r   Essentially, I told her that:e  D o "Commitment" has acquired a negative connotation, just as "legacy"E once meant (loosely) that which is "hallowed" or "revered". HP should D avoid that term ("Commitment"), and instead back up their plans withH actions showing their dedication. Actions speak louder than words, after all.  6 o As a big chunk of their VMS marketing, they need to: 1. Advertise 2. Advertise in the mainstream( 3. Advertise in the mainstream massively  H o HP is still speaking in the language of TCO, while bean counters speakF "Cost of Acquisition". Tune in again tomorrow for the next installment% of "The Battle at Communication Gap".n  E o Many sites in the healthcare industry must deal with certification.tG Hence, our hard/software versions tend to be dictated by that. Alpha tov- IPF migration will be effected by this, also.r  : o The actions of the Q last June are commonly known in theG world-at-large as "The Alphacide". Efforts at damage control would go ad) long way to smooth some ruffled feathers.n  D However, I got the impression that while she shares our "pain", she,( too, is limited by a myopic bureaucracy.   --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/e   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2002 01:55:26 GMTl# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>a9 Subject: Re: HP "OpenVMS Path to Itanium" Roadshow reporthG Message-ID: <iUI%8.74348$WsS.9550@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>l  < "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote in message  news:3D3F577C.C461412@fsi.net... >cF > However, I got the impression that while she shares our "pain", she,* > too, is limited by a myopic bureaucracy.    $ SSDC.  (same s*** different company)    I If HP really want to make a go of OpenVMS, why not take all the people inhK the division (how many are there anyway?) and say to them that for the nextmI 2 years, 100% of the profits (properly accounted for and not slammed withhK extraordinary costs) derived from a sales increase in excess of say 15% peruL annum compounded, will be paid to out to the OpenVMS employees as bonuses atG the end of the 2nd year. The money accrues from year-to-year - everyoneiF participates - from secretaries on up based on some forumla determined today.   The caveat:gC HP gives the OpenVMS division free reign as to how they spend theirOC marketing/advertising money, and that includes slamming any and all J unix/Linux/Windows products as appropriate (including HP-UX when and where it deserves it).  I HP should not hobble the marketing of OpenVMS just because they also sell H unix. Of all the companies around, only IBM has as many OS products, andF they don't seem to have a problem marketing and advertising all the OS products they have.     K So HP earns the profits on the first 15% of sales growth - covers costs andmL gives them a decent return, the employees in turn get to do things in a muchC more entreprenurial way. And sales almost assuredly will exceed 15%mK compounded per annum. If they don't then maybe OpenVMS shouldn't be around.C% Either way, HP finds out pretty fast.k  J Have to wonder why senior execs didn't think of this? Guess they don't pay them enough to think this way.     <wishful thinking>G Sales growth would probably be even higher if they also bought back thetL entire EV8 team and plunged ahead on that too - I think customers would haveH more confidence in that than IA-64. Oh hell, may as well give them Tru64L too, and compete against HP-UX, even with TruCluster added. And they can cutJ a deal with Microsoft to put 64-bit Windows on Alpha EV8 too. Bet all this would outsell IA-64. </wishful thinking>e   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2002 01:31:51 GMTr, From: "Kenneth Farmer" <kfarmer@openvms.org>9 Subject: Re: HP "OpenVMS Path to Itanium" Roadshow reportx= Message-ID: <byI%8.25854$vB3.987679@twister.southeast.rr.com>t  5 "Bob Ceculski" <bob@instantwhip.com> wrote in messagee7 news:d7791aa1.0207241549.3b66a7c4@posting.google.com... B > "Sue Skonetski" <susan.skonetski@hp.nospam.com> wrote in message& news:<ahmscj$eik$1@web1.cup.hp.com>... >mA > what I would like to know is why I still haven't been contacted-; > by hp about this event?  If not for someone on this board @ > posting it, I would along with some others I told never known!   Bob,  H You need to stop by OpenVMS.org multiple times a day to keep up with theJ latest news.  That goes for the rest of you too.  It was posted there.  :)   Kenr   --   Kenneth Farmer http://www.Tru64.org http://www.OpenVMS.org   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2002 02:24:42 GMTt1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>d9 Subject: Re: HP "OpenVMS Path to Itanium" Roadshow reportr' Message-ID: <3D3F65F3.7B7B8825@fsi.net>u   Kenneth Farmer wrote:i > 7 > "Bob Ceculski" <bob@instantwhip.com> wrote in messagel9 > news:d7791aa1.0207241549.3b66a7c4@posting.google.com...wD > > "Sue Skonetski" <susan.skonetski@hp.nospam.com> wrote in message( > news:<ahmscj$eik$1@web1.cup.hp.com>... > >vC > > what I would like to know is why I still haven't been contactedd= > > by hp about this event?  If not for someone on this board B > > posting it, I would along with some others I told never known! >  > Bob, > J > You need to stop by OpenVMS.org multiple times a day to keep up with theL > latest news.  That goes for the rest of you too.  It was posted there.  :)  ' Your effors are truly appreciated, Ken.e  D Still, as another poster put it, there in lies the rub: OpenVMS.org,F like OpenVMS.com (still owned by Mark Levy, AFAIK), is an "unofficial"F channel. I read here that internal folks at the "Q" were a bit put offE by it, in fact. (GOOD! KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK! Keep a fire going undereH their butts, and maybe, just *MAYBE* they'll get off of 'em and actually *DO* something *VISIBLY*!)  A An "official" mass-mailing would have been rather more effective.n  C ...but then, that might constitute "advertising", and we can't havei that, now, can we??!! ;-)o   --   David J. Dachterae dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/s   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2002 22:59:22 -0400l- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>E9 Subject: Re: HP "OpenVMS Path to Itanium" Roadshow reportp, Message-ID: <3D3F6983.BE8C96D7@videotron.ca>   "David J. Dachtera" wrote:F > o "Commitment" has acquired a negative connotation, just as "legacy"  J And HP shoudl also stop to use terms such as "Previously announced plan ofY record" since they point back to Compaq's murder of Alpha when such plans were announced.r   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2002 04:25:07 GMTo# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>,9 Subject: Re: HP "OpenVMS Path to Itanium" Roadshow reporteH Message-ID: <D4L%8.74469$WsS.73546@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>  F "Webb, William W Raleigh, NC" <wwebb1@email.usps.gov> wrote in messageE news:BA52530E3149734A9BAABDBBFA808E4901479EFD@rlghncst964.usps.gov...o > General impressions- > : > There's a new emphasis on VMS as an e-business solution. >m? > (This might be the justification for "breaking VMS out of the:0 > vertical niches" that we've been waiting for.)  A Was this explictily articulated or was it merely hinted at? As toeL non-ebusiness solutions, I would assume that those are solutions that remainL solely in-house rather than being exposed to the nasty old web? Why did that appear to downplayed?X  K What are they really trying to position VMS systems as...db servers runninglI Oracle or Rdb for web apps, as web app servers, portal servers, somethingl; else? Did they talk about expanding the 3rd-party app base?p      6 > I was particularly surprised at the number of people. > who were *not* OpenVMS users who were there;  K That is a bit of a pleasant surprise. How well attended was the event? WhenlB you say "*not* OpenVMS users", are you referring to individuals orG corporations represented? What percentage of the corporations/.edu/.govu> crowd attending do you think were not currently VMS customers?      5  > I can report that VMS Marketing people *do* exist-l5 > the one with whom I spoke had a tech background and- >-4 > 1) was very happy with the changes that have taken > place since the merger."  5 What changes did they refer to that we aren't seeing?    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2002 19:48:00 -0500m& From: jlsue <jlsuexxxz@screaminet.com>, Subject: Re: HSV , Snaps and older databases8 Message-ID: <v6iujugfjv0vmm80v5ln0f75hb2dms6l4s@4ax.com>  D On 23 Jul 2002 20:38:09 -0600, young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) wrote:   >  >e >	It does... Gee Whiz folks... >ed >http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=Ebp3tbVW0SqY%40eisner.encompasserve.org&oe=UTF-8&output=gplain >oA >http://www.compaq.com/products/quickspecs/10432_na/10432_na.htmll >eJ >Enterprise Volume Manager (EVM) is a web-enabled application program thatK >enables users to create and execute jobs that use storage controller-basedn >snapshots and clones. s >lB >	It doesn't appear that runs out of a VMS batch queue.  So if the, >	following line up (end-user requirements): >, >l3 >			1)  No Volume Shadowing as HSV does not supportm >				mini-mergee9 >			2)  Heritage database product that requires quiescingp' >				volumes and "break out" (or snap).n3 >			3)  EVM supported "clone" or "snapclone" methodp >i? >	Seems 3) means there is an operator sitting there clicking oni0 >	something and we all know how well that works. >h >	What am I missing? >nJ >	What is the best solution if a backup is being driven from VMS and 1) +  >	2) are true? >s > [snip...]. >	A >	"How do you get a consistent copy of a database from VMS?  KeepP@ >	in mind this database must be quiesced and then a copy made ofE >	that quiesced database.  How do you do that FROM VMS in a supported # >	manner if using HSV controllers?"v  @ I don't think you understand the answers you're getting to theseB questions.  You can do batch-job oriented snapshots from VMS usingD SSSU.  It is supported, but not all HSV features may be available in> the V1.0 of the scripting utility.  For example, when creatingD shapshots there are some GUI-based options that are not available toD the CLI.  However, it *does* make the snapshots, as I've implemented for some customers.f  B So, you have a job in the batch queue that quiesces your app, then@ executes SSSU scripts that create the snapshot(s) and present it? (them) to the host for backup.  Then you un-quiesce your app.  e  B You'll have to use SYSMAN IO AUTOCONFIGURE to get the unit seen byA VMS.  At the end of the backup you execute another SSSU script too delete the snapshot(s).   F You do not get VMS error codes in $status though.  You'll have to pipe. the output into a file and search for "Error".  > Also,k this is read-only backup support - i.e., you can't do aE "record".  This is true of any snapshot-like utility.  Now, you could F do a "$ SET FILE" command to set the backup date on all files prior to un-quiescing your application.   This is doable today.p  E It is not as automated as EVM is - including automatic "undo", but ito
 does work.) Not speaking for anyone, certainly not HPe- (get rid of the xxxz in my address to e-mail)y   ------------------------------    Date: 25 Jul 2002 00:10:53 -0600+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young)n, Subject: Re: HSV , Snaps and older databases3 Message-ID: <0hRaOYzOCDxq@eisner.encompasserve.org>   a In article <v6iujugfjv0vmm80v5ln0f75hb2dms6l4s@4ax.com>, jlsue <jlsuexxxz@screaminet.com> writes: F > On 23 Jul 2002 20:38:09 -0600, young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) > wrote: >  >> >> >>	It does... Gee Whiz folks...b >>e >>http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=Ebp3tbVW0SqY%40eisner.encompasserve.org&oe=UTF-8&output=gplaino >>B >>http://www.compaq.com/products/quickspecs/10432_na/10432_na.html >>K >>Enterprise Volume Manager (EVM) is a web-enabled application program thatnL >>enables users to create and execute jobs that use storage controller-based >>snapshots and clones.  >>C >>	It doesn't appear that runs out of a VMS batch queue.  So if ther- >>	following line up (end-user requirements):t >> >>4 >>			1)  No Volume Shadowing as HSV does not support >>				mini-merge: >>			2)  Heritage database product that requires quiescing( >>				volumes and "break out" (or snap).4 >>			3)  EVM supported "clone" or "snapclone" method >>@ >>	Seems 3) means there is an operator sitting there clicking on1 >>	something and we all know how well that works.< >> >>	What am I missing?u >>K >>	What is the best solution if a backup is being driven from VMS and 1) + C >>	2) are true?  >> >> [snip...] >>	.B >>	"How do you get a consistent copy of a database from VMS?  KeepA >>	in mind this database must be quiesced and then a copy made ofiF >>	that quiesced database.  How do you do that FROM VMS in a supported$ >>	manner if using HSV controllers?" > B > I don't think you understand the answers you're getting to theseD > questions.  You can do batch-job oriented snapshots from VMS usingF > SSSU.  It is supported, but not all HSV features may be available in@ > the V1.0 of the scripting utility.  For example, when creatingF > shapshots there are some GUI-based options that are not available toF > the CLI.  However, it *does* make the snapshots, as I've implemented > for some customers.w >   C 	Wait a second... is this some kind of comprehension test?  Earliere 	you wrote:    >sB >You can write host-based scripts using SSSU, but in spite of whatF >Andrew's been trying to imply, I don't necessarily recommend it since5 >HP can't support all of the issues that may come up.. >e  3 	So now you do recommend it?  And issues "that may	s@ 	come up" - and HP can't support - are of no consequence?  Okay.   > D > So, you have a job in the batch queue that quiesces your app, thenB > executes SSSU scripts that create the snapshot(s) and present itA > (them) to the host for backup.  Then you un-quiesce your app.  l >     A 	Yeah.  I understand how it works and I understand what you meant 5 	at the outset.  Just didn't realize this unsupported 4 	method was the way to go.  Sorry for my? confusion.    D > You'll have to use SYSMAN IO AUTOCONFIGURE to get the unit seen byC > VMS.  At the end of the backup you execute another SSSU script too > delete the snapshot(s).h > H > You do not get VMS error codes in $status though.  You'll have to pipe0 > the output into a file and search for "Error". > @ > Also,k this is read-only backup support - i.e., you can't do aG > "record".  This is true of any snapshot-like utility.  Now, you couldnH > do a "$ SET FILE" command to set the backup date on all files prior to  > un-quiescing your application. >  > This is doable today.n >   @ 	Fine.  Let me push hard in a direction you may want to consider> 	going.  Get mini-merge incorporated into HSV.  Here are three 	major reasons.C  , 			1)  Can use Volume Shadowing comfortably.% 			2)  Because of 1) Ease of support.1. 			3)  Because of 1) Double read IO throughput   	Ease of support:n   	$ quisce database 	$ dismount volumesn 	$ unquisce database 	$ next_backup: % 	$ if no more to do then goto get_outi 	$ mount dismounted volume% 	$ backup dismounted volume to_targete 	$ add back to shadow set  	$ goto next_backuph    E 	With Volume Shadowing the shadow members are in separate datacenters A 	and act as read targets providing at least double IO throughput.oB 	Granted, with HSV you are spread across many drives this isn't asD 	big of an issue.  Also, with DRM II the synchronous lockstep volumeB 	will service reads if supported at an OS level.  I'll add anotherD 	feature that will compete nicely with Snaps.  With Volume Shadowing? 	I can have multiple bitmaps, 6 of them per volume.  Rolling mysB 	own BCVs, I could easily create a script that does something like 	this:   		$ !e 		$ !  10 A.M. snapshot  		$ !o1 		$ dismount/policy=minicopy=optional  $1$DQB101:o= 		$ MOUNT DSA5/SHAD=$1$DQB102:/POLICY=MINICOPY=OPTIONAL SHAD5l 		$ !r 		$ !  12 P.M. snapshot" 		$ !o1 		$ dismount/policy=minicopy=optional  $1$DQB102:,= 		$ MOUNT DSA5/SHAD=$1$DQB101:/POLICY=MINICOPY=OPTIONAL SHAD5l   	etc.t  . 	Is that type functionality easy to do in EVM?  A 	Note it doesn't matter that those aren't consistent copies.  ThedA 	scenario is database corruption.  When that occurs, roll-forwardtC 	roll-back transaction logs on to last good snapshot.  Much of thisn@ 	is overkill in my book.  Some of us have been running many many# 	years without database corruption.v  G > It is not as automated as EVM is - including automatic "undo", but iti > does work.  A 	Hey, maybe I'm swimming against technology change here.  Tell usCA 	how EVM will work in this scenario (assume it is shipping).  HowtE 	does it interact with VMS database products that need to be quiesceda 	prior to snap?d     				Robi   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2002 16:41:39 -0700A' From: David Mathog <mathog@caltech.edu>b Subject: Re: Intel to smash AMDf* Message-ID: <3D3F3B33.365776D@caltech.edu>   Rob Young wrote: > K >         Since 2.53 won't be top-end, it drops down to volume status.  ThefP >         problem is AMD can't keep up performance and it is starting to show up >         big time.   < They may not be able to push the clock speed up as fast, but@ AMD could increase the on chip cache, and for many programs that; can make a big difference. Come to think of it, isn't a lot-C of the performance boost in the newest P4's also a result of biggerm cache sizes?  D Let's imagine that Intel does manage to kill AMD with this strategy.C Then they've absolutely guaranteed themselves antitrust action froml? the Feds because there will then be no question that they are a 	 monopoly.7  < And AMD doesn't have to just evaporate.  I'm pretty sure VIA< and a few others would be plenty happy to pick up the Athlon and Hammer technologies.   Regards,   David Mathog mathog@caltech.edu   ------------------------------    Date: 24 Jul 2002 23:18:06 -0600+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young)o Subject: Re: Intel to smash AMD,3 Message-ID: <YymaVyJDBBsq@eisner.encompasserve.org>s  T In article <3D3F3B33.365776D@caltech.edu>, David Mathog <mathog@caltech.edu> writes: > Rob Young wrote: >> lL >>         Since 2.53 won't be top-end, it drops down to volume status.  TheQ >>         problem is AMD can't keep up performance and it is starting to show up  >>         big time. > > > They may not be able to push the clock speed up as fast, butB > AMD could increase the on chip cache, and for many programs that > can make a big difference.    = 	They plan to , that part is code-named Barton and is due outnD 	Q4 2002.  Of course , it won't be around for the biggest PC selling% 	season (September through December).l  " > Come to think of it, isn't a lotE > of the performance boost in the newest P4's also a result of bigger  > cache sizes?  @ 	Actually, a number of factors.  Two of the biggest are a fasterA 	front-side bus clocking at 533 MHz where AMD is 266.  Secondly, i4 	MHz.  Faster CPUs translate into faster benchmarks.   > F > Let's imagine that Intel does manage to kill AMD with this strategy.E > Then they've absolutely guaranteed themselves antitrust action fromoA > the Feds because there will then be no question that they are at > monopoly.s >   > 	Nope.  They are already a monopoly.  It isn't against the law? 	to be a monopoly.  What is against the law is anti-competitivea? 	actions.  That is *extremely* difficult to prove, just ask the @ 	Justice Department in U.S. vs. Microsoft.  Intel will be immuneD 	to a case as they are clearly selling parts above cost.  What couldC 	be argued is the company is losing money overall (it that happens)c$ 	but there isn't a law against that.    > > And AMD doesn't have to just evaporate.  I'm pretty sure VIA> > and a few others would be plenty happy to pick up the Athlon > and Hammer technologies.  A 	I'm not suggesting they evaporate.  What I am suggesting is thate? 	in the next 4-6 months there isn't a very compelling reason atvC 	all to buy an AMD part.  It won't matter who is trying to sell it.i@ 	Concluding that AMD will be in a very precarious position come  	2003.   				Rob    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2002 10:07:34 +0100s% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>t9 Subject: Re: IOS 12.1.14 and DECnet Phase IV vs V problem-8 Message-ID: <5qqsjuknkluboc0ob2ui405k4snqv69i0i@4ax.com>  ? On Tue, 23 Jul 2002 19:00:55 +0100, EdL <edl@euronet.nl> wrote:w   > ; >A problem has occurred after we updated a Cisco7500 routert  >from IOS 12.1.7 to IOS 12.1.14.  C Was the router running DECNET before and after the upgrade or is it 3 just bridging. Is it a DECNET Phase IV area router?w  < >We try to connect to a VAX cluster with $set host <cluster> >command, which fails.C >Then we connect to a node within the cluster with $set host <node>O >command, without any problem.  E I take it you have checked the obvious such as accidental deletion ofeC the cluster alias. What happens if you try to set host to the aliase from the cluster itself? a   >oJ >The cluster is running DECNet Phase IV and the node from which we connect >is running DECNet Phase V.j >kK >Also a FAL command in the same way something like $dir <cluster>::, fails.v >tE >We suspect the router because the problem occurred after the update,i >does anyone can explain this ?   @ I've xposted this to comp.os.vms  where you might get a few more suggestions.   >M >Thanks, Edwin m   -- Alan   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2002 15:28:49 -0700s0 From: Mark Berryman <Mark.Berryman@Mvb.Saic.Com>9 Subject: Re: IOS 12.1.14 and DECnet Phase IV vs V problemi, Message-ID: <3D3EC7B1.55B65841@Mvb.Saic.Com>   Alan Greig wrote:y > A > On Tue, 23 Jul 2002 19:00:55 +0100, EdL <edl@euronet.nl> wrote:a >  > > = > >A problem has occurred after we updated a Cisco7500 routerK" > >from IOS 12.1.7 to IOS 12.1.14. > E > Was the router running DECNET before and after the upgrade or is itt5 > just bridging. Is it a DECNET Phase IV area router?v > > > >We try to connect to a VAX cluster with $set host <cluster> > >command, which fails.E > >Then we connect to a node within the cluster with $set host <node>J  > >command, without any problem. > G > I take it you have checked the obvious such as accidental deletion ofsE > the cluster alias. What happens if you try to set host to the alias0 > from the cluster itself? >  > >@L > >The cluster is running DECNet Phase IV and the node from which we connect > >is running DECNet Phase V.d > >nM > >Also a FAL command in the same way something like $dir <cluster>::, fails.n > >iG > >We suspect the router because the problem occurred after the update,v! > >does anyone can explain this ?i > B > I've xposted this to comp.os.vms  where you might get a few more > suggestions. >  > >- > >Thanks, Edwin >  > -- > Alan  G The router no longer appears to know about your cluster alias address.  C It has been a very long time since I dealt with Phase IV DECnet butW let's try a few quick checks:b  G On each node of the VAXCluster issue the command: mcr ncp sho exec chart  G I'm interested in knowing what each node shows as its own address, whats> its Type is, and what address it defines as the cluster alias.  F On the router, what is the result of the command: show decnet neighbor  F On the Phase V client, what is the result of: mcr decnet_register show node <cluster>  * That should be enough to get started with.  
 Mark Berryman- Mark.Berryman@Mvb.Saic.Com   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2002 00:00:13 GMT - From: Hansang Bae <hbae_@_nyc.rr.com.REMOVE_>t9 Subject: Re: IOS 12.1.14 and DECnet Phase IV vs V problemp? Message-ID: <MPG.17a90ac328707fb1989c63@news-server.nyc.rr.com>e  A > On Tue, 23 Jul 2002 19:00:55 +0100, EdL <edl@euronet.nl> wrote:y= > >A problem has occurred after we updated a Cisco7500 routera" > >from IOS 12.1.7 to IOS 12.1.14.' [snip:  Decnet issues after an upgrade]w    L There was one decnet bug where you had to hardcode the mac addresses on the K interfaces.  I can't remember if your version was affected or not but it's   time to do a bug scrub on CCO.     -- t   hsbt  D "Somehow I imagined this experience would be more rewarding"  CalvinD ********************************************************************C Due to the volume of email that I receive, I may not not be able to-D reply to emails sent to my account.  Please post a followup instead.D ********************************************************************   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2002 01:54:32 GMT0* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>4 Subject: Re: Itanic2 - the cHumPaq spin continues...C Message-ID: <sTI%8.312412$Im2.15832890@bin2.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>:  : "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message& news:3D3ED187.499DACC1@videotron.ca...   ...t  G > Was PA-RISC at a technological dead end or was its acrhitecture fullye capabletA > of being continued into a 64 bit world and remain competitive ?/  I Probably the latter (PA-RISC is already 64-bit, of course).  In some waystA PA-RISC is second only to Alpha in future potential:  its SPECinteJ performance-per-clock is noticeably better than Alpha's (though its SPECfpI performance-per-clock is worse than Alpha's) and its clock speed is aboutuL 3/4 of Alpha's, so for server-style work it's pretty competitive.  Actually,L it just got a speed bump that probably puts its absolute SPECint performanceK a bit ahead of Alpha's, but then Alpha is scheduled for a similar bump nextrI month that should put it back in the lead until EV7 comes along to clinchr the matter decisively.  H [Or maybe not next month:  a little bird just told me that HP may now beJ stalling introduction of the 1.2+ GHz EV68C until closer to the end of theL year, which if true would likely be to avoid embarrassing McKinley and makesG a joke of HP's commitments to following the 'plans of record'.  As of a B couple of months ago, introduction was still scheduled for August:  ( http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=3466G http://www.compaqusers.org/cuo/site/cms/newsarticleview.asp?article=893oE http://www.hoise.com/primeur/02/articles/monthly/UH-PR-01-02-2.html ]i  L At any rate, PA-RISC suffered from levels of neglect by its owner comparableC to those Alpha suffered - perhaps even worse, since AFAIK it had nohK ambitious next-generation effort comparable to EV8 in place - and yet stilliG looks respectable.  Next year the 8800 appears in a 130 nm process dual K cores on the die, so won't even start to look obsolete before close to 2005SG even if they don't continue with the 8900 and 9000 (whatever they are).t   >bI > If PA-RISC was at a technological dead end, then it isn't a question ofTH > "continued development" but rather "develop a brand new architecture".  J PA-RISC is nothing like a technological dead end (EPIC looks more like oneH than RISC does).  HP just *thought* RISC would be a dead end back in the0 late 1980s when it embarked on its EPIC journey.   >cL > Developping a brand new architecture costs a whole lot more than continued? > incremental improvements of an existing architecture. Right ?e  K Absolutely:  that's why Itanic is such a lousy value proposition.  If InteloI weren't subsidizing it up the wazoo (even at the margin, let alone w.r.t.oH recovering any development costs), people would just laugh at its price.   > L > Once the IA64 is developped and goes into "incremental improvements" mode," > then its costs should be  lower,  G That won't happen until at least 2006 at the earliest, since until thentL Itanic will be powered by the McKinley core without significant changes (mayJ pick up some on-chip peripheral enhancements in 2005 like those POWER4 andK USIII got last year and EV7 and Hammer will get later this year).  The hopenK seems to be that the EV8 team will come up with a new core that's less of apJ power and chip-area pig for the level of performance it provides, but evenL if that comes to pass it will require aggressive development through the endD of 2005 (plus of course *also* the 'incremental improvements' to the? McKinley core that will be carrying Itanic's water until then).a  *  and it will be generating *some* revenue,L > which is much better than what IA64 has been doing since the mid 1990s. AsL > long as IA64 generates a bit of profit for Intel, then I see no reason forJ > Intel not wanting to continue the job of producing HP's proprietary chip andaH > try to recuperate some of the investment that was wasted in that chip.  K Itanic won't come anywhere near generating *marginal* profit for Intel (let J alone repaying one cent of its billions in already-sunk development costs)F until its volumes rise to something like SPARC's:  just the continuingA development effort is *expensive*.  If it really does become HP's K proprietary chip, the reaching even SPARC sales levels may be questionable: K Intel might well be willing to continue to fab it for HP, but certainly nota) to continue the major development effort.    ...y  I > But how much capital is tied up with IA64 ? If they kill IA64, will any 2 > capital be usable for a more profitable venture,  H Of course it will:  if they kill Itanic, it will be because they need toJ develop an alternative (most likely Yamhill) that can succeed where ItanicJ can't (and in introducing that alternative they will almost certainly sealI Itanic's fate even if they don't come right out and say that it's dying).L    or will it be just a questionK > of reducing headcount ?  If there isn't much capital freed up, then there I > isn't much point in killing IA64 as long as it generates a tiny profit.u  I Just think about the similar situation with Alpha.  Alpha hasn't yet beennJ 'killed', but it's clearly on the way out even though still being producedJ (and even to some degree enhanced).  But when Compaq announced that it wasH winding down development, any hope for further market penetration by the platform went away.   B Similarly, Intel may choose to stop shoveling billions into ItanicL development (and marketing).  That won't make it disappear overnight, and inI fact would allow Intel to start making a marginal profit on the dwindlingnL numbers of units it would continue to sell for a few years.  But it would beG in the same position Alpha occupies today:  declared dying, and in facty dying.   - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2002 23:08:30 -0400.- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>S4 Subject: Re: Itanic2 - the cHumPaq spin continues..., Message-ID: <3D3F6BA6.DF3B3BD2@videotron.ca>   Bill Todd wrote:D > Similarly, Intel may choose to stop shoveling billions into ItanicN > development (and marketing).  That won't make it disappear overnight, and inK > fact would allow Intel to start making a marginal profit on the dwindlings= > numbers of units it would continue to sell for a few years.p  N The current plan is to keep McKinley for a few years and only give it cosmetic improvements (speed bumps etc).g  K Was this originally the plan or were there more agressive development plans  for IA64 after McKinley ?d  N If there were more agressive development plans for IA64 which were scaled downM for the next few years, could this be seen as a sign that Intel wants to stopn! shovelingf billions into Itanic ?$   ------------------------------   Date: 24 Jul 2002 21:32:57 GMT2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman), Subject: Re: low-level formatting SCSI disks* Message-ID: <ahn6e9$fuh$3@web1.cup.hp.com>  ` In article <3D3D9FF9.58ED5AFA@ost.cdrh.fda.gov>, Jonathan Boswell <jsb@ost.cdrh.fda.gov> writes:O :Is there a test 70 console command that I could use to low-level format a SCSIoN :disk on a VAXstation 4000/VLC, an AlphaStation 200, or an AlphaServer 2000 or :2100?  Thanks in advance!  G   If you need to do a low-level format, the disk is probably going bad.   H   What most systems call a "format", OpenVMS calls an INITIALIZE.  What G   OpenVMS traditionally calls a "format" generally involves tools from eE   the storage hardware vendor.  (And when the low-level format of thecF   disk is going bad, well, a catastrophic failure can be impending...)  G   If you want to try this yourself, please acquire the rzdisk tool fromm!   the Freeware V4.0 distribution.Q  =     http://www.openvms.compaq.com/freeware/freeware40/rzdisk/H  6   At a higher level, INITIALIZE/ERASE can work nicely.  I   Given your site, I will assume you are less interested in a SCSI format G   than in how to declassify or otherwise erase a disk, and this can and-H   does "get interesting".  (One of the nicest ways to erase the disk is G   not a format, but a pattern erasure.  For some additional background tE   on disk erasure, please see Ask The Wizard topics including (841), tF   (3926), (4286), (4598), (6926) and (7320), as well as various other    referenced topics.).  F   Also, if this is disk erasure, you will need to discuss the specificF   local erasure requirements with your site security officer (or otherF   site-specific analog), as the "correct" answer depends completely on6   the actual sensitivity (value) of the data involved.  H   As this is not the first time this erasure topic has arisen :-), I'll E   add this erasure discussion to the next edition of the OpenVMS FAQ..  N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------N       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.com    N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2002 02:07:38 GMTt1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>', Subject: Re: low-level formatting SCSI disks' Message-ID: <3D3F61F6.D8F505BC@fsi.net>l   Hoff Hoffman wrote:  > b > In article <3D3D9FF9.58ED5AFA@ost.cdrh.fda.gov>, Jonathan Boswell <jsb@ost.cdrh.fda.gov> writes:Q > :Is there a test 70 console command that I could use to low-level format a SCSIdP > :disk on a VAXstation 4000/VLC, an AlphaStation 200, or an AlphaServer 2000 or > :2100?  Thanks in advance! > I >   If you need to do a low-level format, the disk is probably going bad.o > E >   What most systems call a "format", OpenVMS calls an INITIALIZE.  s  E I've been "preaching" that INITIALIZE != FORMAT, rather INITIALIZE is3 more closely akin to mkfs.  2 Example: try INITIALIZING an unformatted diskette.   > WhatH >   OpenVMS traditionally calls a "format" generally involves tools fromG >   the storage hardware vendor.  (And when the low-level format of thetH >   disk is going bad, well, a catastrophic failure can be impending...)  F My take has been that ODS does not use a "layer" between the low-levelG format and the ODS. Since it currently doesn't care about (over-writes,hC actually) partition tables, etc. (I understand this may change in ai7 future version of OVMS), that seemed the best parallel.p   Am I off-base on this?   -- o David J. Dachterai dba DJE Systemst http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/e   ------------------------------   Date: 24 Jul 2002 20:29:33 GMT2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)N Subject: Re: MicroVAX TOY Clock Battery (was: Re: MV 3400 won't keep settings)* Message-ID: <ahn2nd$fuh$1@web1.cup.hp.com>  [ In article <3D3C7CA4.E5C95047@email.uc.edu>, David Michaels <michaedi@email.uc.edu> writes:t( :I'm "trying" to run a Microvax 3400.... :tI :When I turn the machine off, I lose the date and the default boot devicet :etc...  : D :Is this a problem with a battery?? Are there instructions somewhereF :where I can remedy this problem?? Is this something that I'm going to :need to leaern top live with ?e     From the OpenVMS FAQ:e   			...B                    On most (all?) VAX systems, the battery that isH                    associated with the TOY clock can be disconnected andE                    replaced if (when) it fails-TOY clock failures aretJ                    quite commonly caused by a failed nickel-cadmium (NiCd)B                    or lithium battery, or by a failed Dallas chip. 			...   	--t  M   IIRC, the MicroVAX 3400 series used the old 3-cell (3 x 1.2V) NiCd battery aM   pack, and this shrink-wrapped pack was usually mounted on the inside of the J   console bulkhead.  Assuming this box has been plugged in long enough to N   charge the battery, the NiCd has probably failed -- if you meter the output K   of a pack, you should see 3.6V.  (Battery failures are not unexpected of VK   course, given the both age of the MicroVAX 3400 series box and given NiCdnH   battery technology.)  The part number for the pack is/was 12-19245-01.  K   If you're feeling like spending your time, you can probably (re)wire one OJ   of the 4-cell replacement NiCd carriers commonly available at electronicH   parts stores to work with the MicroVAX connector and (of course) with K   three cells, assuming you can't find a 3-cell replacement pack somewhere.T  K   The lithium battery used in the Dallas chip (used on more recent systems iJ   than the MicroVAX 3400 series) tends to fail starting at about 10 years J   out, and the (socketed) chip needs to be replaced, or you need to reset    the time.r  N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------N       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.com    N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2002 21:50:02 GMTo From: Jordi Guillaumes PonskN Subject: Re: MicroVAX TOY Clock Battery (was: Re: MV 3400 won't keep settings), Message-ID: <3D3F1F73.9080900@nospam.please>   Hoff Hoffman wrote:   O >   IIRC, the MicroVAX 3400 series used the old 3-cell (3 x 1.2V) NiCd battery 5O >   pack, and this shrink-wrapped pack was usually mounted on the inside of the1L >   console bulkhead.  Assuming this box has been plugged in long enough to P >   charge the battery, the NiCd has probably failed -- if you meter the output M >   of a pack, you should see 3.6V.  (Battery failures are not unexpected of  M >   course, given the both age of the MicroVAX 3400 series box and given NiCdiJ >   battery technology.)  The part number for the pack is/was 12-19245-01.  G I changed the battery pack of two of my machines (a VAX 4000-200 and a eI uVAX 3300, both in BA215 cabinets. I guess the 3400 will be the same. In nH both cases, the battery was indeed inside the CPU cover. I replaced the H three-cell packs with standard wireless phone 3-cell battery packs. The I only tricky part (well, sort of) was cuting both the old and new battery dB pack cables so I could use the original connector. The packs were D attached to the unit with a velcro strap, so it was easy to replace 
 those things.    JG   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2002 22:25:35 GMTmL From: winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU ("Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr")3 Subject: Re: Need 80' Fortran/VAX training materiala8 Message-ID: <00A116AE.D24CEFF8@SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>  W In article <3D3EAE29.213DB078@Free.fr>, Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@Free.fr> writes:  >Merci.  >eK >BTW, I just finished to read the French version of the book "The Eight" bydB >Katherine Neville (Ballantines Books 1988, Le Cherche Midi 2002). >,O >Pleasant to find that many expressions were written in French in the original.r >l  K >I do recommend this book to those who do not know it, particularily if yous play chess.e   >r, >Is Katherine a famous writer in the States?  J She's not a famous writer like Steven King or John Grisham - people whose O names alone help sell books and movies, and who get interviewed on television -sN but she's had, I think, three  mass-market paperbacks, including _The Eight_. L (I've read _The Eight_ and found it very entertaining, although I could haveD done with a little less about what a sexy guy Colonel Quaddaffy is.)   -- Alanp    O ===============================================================================20  Alan Winston --- WINSTON@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDUM  Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056 M  Physical mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 69, PO BOX 4349, STANFORD, CA  94309-0210 O ===============================================================================r   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2002 19:16:04 -0500*& From: jlsue <jlsuexxxz@screaminet.com>4 Subject: Re: Only 20% drop in VMS systems (was: wow)8 Message-ID: <ibguju45iu9a95dkvknup1b7igg7fo1qst@4ax.com>  E On Wed, 24 Jul 2002 12:16:56 +0100, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy*4 <andrew_nospam.harrison_remove_this@sun#.com> wrote:   >  >,
 >jlsue wrote:: >3   >0= >No you are the time waster, you jump into a discussion abouti8 >SMP vs Cluster scalability with examples that you admitA >a primarely HA and are then unable to recollect what scalabilitye >you observed in real life.  >m> >If you have forgotten your "real-world" experience taught you; >then it wasn't really a very usefull real-world experienceu >was it. >t; >If you had a clue you would have jumped in with real worldt: >examples of cluster scalability, you didn't so I think in; >the circumstances you have proven to be the person withoutf >a clue.  B Well, I have a clue about what I've done, and how to reproduce it.> What I don't have a clue is how you make such amazing jumps to conclusions.    > These WERE examples of using clusters for scalability.  OracleE clusters in some cases.  Whenever we needed more processing, we'd addbF another system to the cluster.  It was very simple and didn't increase our people costs.e  E If you have some specific question, I'll try to answer them, but justi grow up a little.o   >c+ >BTW you were going to get back to me with:e >1. 0 >Datapoints that support the Alpha is fast SPARC >	is slow conjecture.   C This is a fabrication on your part.  However, I work with customersuC who have made these statments to me.  These are real-world apps, of  course, and not benchmarks.    >2. 3 >Where you have had a sucessfull technical argumentd >	with me in the past.  ? Look at the last discussion on whether VMSclusters allow you towB increase availability - sometimes to almost 100%.  This was in theA 2000 timeframe.  This was a technical discussion about whether wei@ could actually do certain things with VMS, which you kept sayingF couldn't be done - or at least, not very often, iirc.  My analysis wasB that you carefully chose certain anecdotal cases to try to prove aA general case.  And even when people with years of experience witha= hundereds of VMSclusters tried to explain the fallacy in thist+ reasoning, you couldn't be swayed by logic.v     >h4 >We are still waiting on both of these, wouldn't you2 >be better off trying to salvage Alpha and you own9 >tattered reputations rather than jumping into a argumentp? >where you had to admit to having "forgotten" the only peice ofs3 >information that might have made your contributionr >usefull or interesting.  ? This is typical Andrew style.  When you can't counter with real8E information, you try make-up-a-fact to disparage others.  You have noe3 real life, so I guess I shouldn't be too surprised.   n) Not speaking for anyone, certainly not HPt- (get rid of the xxxz in my address to e-mail)n   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2002 19:29:55 -0500 & From: jlsue <jlsuexxxz@screaminet.com>4 Subject: Re: Only 20% drop in VMS systems (was: wow)8 Message-ID: <rqguju05g9f2b1qtnvnu85uram3m45v2r7@4ax.com>  E On Wed, 24 Jul 2002 15:43:01 +0100, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancys4 <andrew_nospam.harrison_remove_this@sun#.com> wrote:   >t >e
 >jlsue wrote:e >t   >> t@ >> You are so full of shit it keeps coming out of your keyboard.F >> I put the same amount of "detail" into my reference that was in the >> quoted one. >> I >o >a5 >Do you always resort to abuse when you get stuck ???T  ! Hey Andy, pot... kettle... black.a& You're so full of irony it just drips.  E BTW, re-read the thread I responded to.  You fired the first salvo ofs abuse.  Grow up.   >e >oF >> Just to keep you a little more informed, the clustered environments> >> include over 250 different applications.  Some of them wereA >> e-mail/messaging, some were scientific & statistics, some wered3 >> database - both Rdb and Oracle (V6.x varieties).c >> t >t > . >You still seem unable to answer the question. > < >Were you running a single Oracle DBMS across multiple nodes1 >what was the workload, what was the scalability.o  E Well, duh!!!  What the hell did you think I was doing when entering ahC note about Oracle scalability in a VMScluster?  These were multiplee$ nodes.  Same databases on all nodes.  D I apologize for mistakenly mixing my explanation.  I think I referedF to specific apps at one point and multiple apps in another.  My intent? was to document that there are many cases where VMSclusters canl4 provide N+1 reliability as well as good scalability.  A The Oracle databases consisted of different workloads.  Some werelE large-scale (hundreds of GB in the 1993 time-frame).  One was used toaC provide reporting capabilities to an SAP database.  The company did B not want to bog down the SAP system with ad-hoc business reportingE (since it was doing mission critical, global activity).  They extract F the data into an Oracle database on a VMScluster and business managers> around the globe perform ad-hoc reporting.  High uptime.  Good scalability.  Everyone's happy.t  @ Another cluster had a mix of Oracle and Rdb databases.  WorkloadB varied.  However response time, being spread among all systems was highly scalable.  = I've worked on more transactional-based servers as well.  OneiE VMScluster had 3 AlphaServers and over 6000 simultaneous connections.oD If they need more room, sometimes they upgrade processors, sometimes  they add systems to the cluster.   >t: >Phenominal, fantastic and amazingly low may well be exact> >measures in yuor world but they arn't in most of my customers3 >unless you happen to be talking to a sales person.   C Well, this isn't a sales pitch.  I don't have to be exact.  This isiD merely a topical, informal discussion.  If we get into anything that& requires more exact data, let me know.   >I >lC >>>And why would license units be a direct measure of performance ?s >>>o >>>o >> eD >> Hmm... I  was trying to show scalability, cost, and availability.I >> License units refer to cost - and if you're talking about Oracle, this- >> is a big issue. >>   >e >e? >Humm, so what you are really saying is that Digitals licensingi< >system didn't make any sense based on the capability of the	 >servers.g  @ No.  If I said that, please explain where.  Servers are servers,D workstations are (generally) not.  We (the company I worked for, notE DEC/CPQ/HP)  were using workstations as servers in this one instance.   B Note:  I have not worked for DEC/CPQ/HP my entire career.  Many ofF these experiences occurred prior to my current employment.  Real world@ means something very different when you are the one who gets theE calls.  VMSclusters gave us the freedom of not being called-in nights D and weekends.  The performance scalability was another plus in these
 environments.     ) Not speaking for anyone, certainly not HPs- (get rid of the xxxz in my address to e-mail)f   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2002 14:19:05 -0400f! From: Jim Agnew <jpagnew@vcu.edu>-# Subject: Re: OpenVMS Jobs in Europel' Message-ID: <3D3EEF99.14F30653@vcu.edu>z  E why not any Balkans?  Don't you want to lead an exciting life???? ;-)s   (can't say I blame you...)   Fabio Cardoso wrote: >  > Dear Sirs, > 8 > As my contract is almost over here in Brazil (Set, 30)4 > and I dont want to renew (after 3 years is good to8 > breath new air), if someone in Europe needs an OpenVMS > 6 > SysAdmin, and depending on I accept to be downgraded6 > to a Senior Operator, I am available... Event to 6 - > 12 months contracts... >  > Preferences for: > 	 > Germanyy > Italyl > Nederlands
 > Portugal& > Scandinavian Countries:   may be !!! > Sweden > Spainr > United Kingdom >  > No Balkans please... > 	 > Regardsv >  > FC >  > =====o > ========================== > Fbio dos Santos Cardoso > OpenVMS System Manager > Rio de Janeiro - Brazil  > fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br > ========================== > 4 > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!?* > Yahoo! Health - Feel better, live better > http://health.yahoo.com    ------------------------------  + Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2002 11:28:06 -0700 (PDT)I. From: Fabio Cardoso <fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br># Subject: Re: OpenVMS Jobs in Europe @ Message-ID: <20020724182806.81335.qmail@web20208.mail.yahoo.com>   Jim   ! I had a girlfriend from Serbia !  ! I broke with her ! I dont want to " be killed by Kalashnikov bullets !     Regards    FC n& --- Jim Agnew <jpagnew@vcu.edu> wrote:1 > why not any Balkans?  Don't you want to lead ane > exciting life???? ;-)  >  > (can't say I blame you...) >  > Fabio Cardoso wrote: > >  > > Dear Sirs, > > 6 > > As my contract is almost over here in Brazil (Set, > 30)n6 > > and I dont want to renew (after 3 years is good to2 > > breath new air), if someone in Europe needs an	 > OpenVMSi > > - > > SysAdmin, and depending on I accept to be  > downgraded6 > > to a Senior Operator, I am available... Event to 6 > -S > > 12 months contracts... > >  > > Preferences for: > >  > > Germany-	 > > Italy- > > Nederlands > > Portugal( > > Scandinavian Countries:   may be !!!
 > > Sweden	 > > Spain- > > United Kingdom > >  > > No Balkans please... > >  > > Regardsf > >  > > FC > > 	 > > =====n > > ========================== > > Fbio dos Santos Cardoso > > OpenVMS System Manager > > Rio de Janeiro - Brazil  > > fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br > > ========================== > > 6 > > __________________________________________________ > > Do You Yahoo!?, > > Yahoo! Health - Feel better, live better > > http://health.yahoo.coma     =====j ========================== Fbio dos Santos Cardoso OpenVMS System Manager Rio de Janeiro - Brazilt fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br ==========================  2 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!?( Yahoo! Health - Feel better, live better http://health.yahoo.comi   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2002 19:19:38 +0200A9 From: Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com>,# Subject: Re: OpenVMS Jobs in Europea' Message-ID: <3D3EE1AA.B400743E@aaa.com>   / Ahem, Sweden is actualy one of the Scandinaviand
 countries :-)  /Jan-Erik Sderholm.   Fabio Cardoso wrote: >  >  > Preferences for: > 	 > Germany  > Italy  > Nederlands
 > Portugal& > Scandinavian Countries:   may be !!! > Sweden > Spain. > United Kingdom >  > No Balkans please... >a   ------------------------------  + Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2002 11:57:35 -0700 (PDT)b. From: Fabio Cardoso <fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br># Subject: Re: OpenVMS Jobs in Europe ? Message-ID: <20020724185735.9044.qmail@web20210.mail.yahoo.com>m   I know, I know ! :-)  * But I was organizing  this country list in alphabetical4 order. I wrote Sweden before to wri te "Scandinavian Contries"...    !!!m   Regards    FC -+ --- Jan-Erik Sderholm <aaa@aaa.com> wrote:01 > Ahem, Sweden is actualy one of the Scandinavianf > countries :-)c > /Jan-Erik Sderholm. >  > Fabio Cardoso wrote: > >  > >  > > Preferences for: > >  > > Germanyc	 > > Italy  > > Nederlands > > Portugal( > > Scandinavian Countries:   may be !!!
 > > Sweden	 > > Spain  > > United Kingdom > >  > > No Balkans please... > >n     =====e ========================== Fbio dos Santos Cardoso OpenVMS System Manager Rio de Janeiro - Brazilr fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br ==========================  2 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!?( Yahoo! Health - Feel better, live better http://health.yahoo.com    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2002 14:57:54 -0400c! From: Jim Agnew <jpagnew@vcu.edu>c# Subject: Re: OpenVMS Jobs in Europea' Message-ID: <3D3EF8B2.4EE93546@vcu.edu>   F Best reason to stay outta there I've heard yet!!!!  Actually, I took a@ class on Yugoslavia waaaaay back when I was in college.  I'm NOT- surprised all that stuff happened..  yikes!!!X   jime     Fabio Cardoso wrote: >  > Jimi > " > I had a girlfriend from Serbia !# > I broke with her ! I dont want to $ > be killed by Kalashnikov bullets ! > 	 > Regardsx >  > FC( > --- Jim Agnew <jpagnew@vcu.edu> wrote:3 > > why not any Balkans?  Don't you want to lead ant > > exciting life???? ;-)u > >l > > (can't say I blame you...) > >t > > Fabio Cardoso wrote: > > >  > > > Dear Sirs, > > >V8 > > > As my contract is almost over here in Brazil (Set, > > 30)t8 > > > and I dont want to renew (after 3 years is good to4 > > > breath new air), if someone in Europe needs an > > OpenVMSf > > >c/ > > > SysAdmin, and depending on I accept to bea > > downgraded8 > > > to a Senior Operator, I am available... Event to 6 > > -w > > > 12 months contracts... > > >' > > > Preferences for: > > >k
 > > > Germany  > > > Italy  > > > Nederlands > > > Portugal* > > > Scandinavian Countries:   may be !!! > > > Sweden > > > Spain  > > > United Kingdom > > >r > > > No Balkans please... > > >n
 > > > Regardsa > > >  > > > FC > > >  > > > =====r  > > > ========================== > > > Fbio dos Santos Cardoso > > > OpenVMS System Manager > > > Rio de Janeiro - BrazilS > > > fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br  > > > ========================== > > >s8 > > > __________________________________________________ > > > Do You Yahoo!?. > > > Yahoo! Health - Feel better, live better > > > http://health.yahoo.come >  > =====  > ========================== > Fbio dos Santos Cardoso > OpenVMS System Manager > Rio de Janeiro - Brazil' > fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br > ========================== > 4 > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!?* > Yahoo! Health - Feel better, live better > http://health.yahoo.com    ------------------------------    Date: 24 Jul 2002 14:47:23 -0700, From: colive@technologEase.com (Chris Olive)J Subject: Philosophical use of ACLs (related to "setting up a VMS dev env")= Message-ID: <b10654c6.0207241347.55a5bfbc@posting.google.com>a  C The Google news feed is a bit slow (I'm going to have to tap into aiD better News service, it would seem), so I don't know what the public= response to my previous post ("How to setup a VMS developmenta environment") has been.a  B Anyway, that post has drawn some interesting personal emails.  AllB very cordial.  But it seems quite a few folks make en masse use of< ACLs on a scale that I would consider to be administratively= nightmarish...  My own personal approach to file security andiC protection is to use UIC-based and rights-id based file protectionsaC via standard SYSTEM, OWNER, GROUP, WORLD file protections.  If useraC accounts are logically grouped and files are logically placed, thensB UIC-based protection has always covered 95%+ of my file protection desires.  A Providing access outside of those schemes would involve providingSD group privileges (GROUP, GRPNAM, and GRPPRV), then system privilegesE dead last.  ACLs should be used to fine-tune all of the above or dealtF with auditing or exceptions (again, my opinion) via ALLOW, DENY, ALARMC (to log priv'd access), CONTROL ACE options etc.  Yet it seems manyr> view ACLs as a "first attack" approach to file security in the feedback I have received today.2  F Having started out in VMS pre-ACL era, I thought the general idea whenD ACLs were introduced (I believe in v3.0?) was to provide special andA more granular access to files (leaving aside special ACEs such asaD ALARM, APPLICATION, etc.)  True, file protection ACE propogation canE take place via the PROPOGATE and DEFAULT ACE options, but most peoplei? I knew (old-school VMSers) considered overuse of ACLs to createiE administrative headaches and usually pointed to improper organization_	 of files.a  D Maybe someone from VMS Engineering would care to comment on just whyF ACLs came to be.  I just found it interesting that many of the answersE I received to my previous post mentioned en masse use of ACLs or ACLs=+ as a first approach to VMS file security...N  A Then again, this could be because Windows NT *does* use a heavilyoE ACL-based approach and so the prevailing mentality has changed...??? ,F Old-school, I felt en masse use of ACLs to be outside of it's original< design intention, esp. since most well thought out UIC-based! protections worked to perfection.1   Yes? No?   Chris  -----j Chris Olivea colive(at)technologEase(dot)com    ------------------------------    Date: 24 Jul 2002 17:03:09 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen):N Subject: Re: Philosophical use of ACLs (related to "setting up a VMS dev env")3 Message-ID: <ouKJKRkJqu49@eisner.encompasserve.org>0  l In article <b10654c6.0207241347.55a5bfbc@posting.google.com>, colive@technologEase.com (Chris Olive) writes:  D > Anyway, that post has drawn some interesting personal emails.  AllD > very cordial.  But it seems quite a few folks make en masse use of> > ACLs on a scale that I would consider to be administratively? > nightmarish...  My own personal approach to file security andeE > protection is to use UIC-based and rights-id based file protectionsiE > via standard SYSTEM, OWNER, GROUP, WORLD file protections.  If usereE > accounts are logically grouped and files are logically placed, thenoD > UIC-based protection has always covered 95%+ of my file protection
 > desires.  H I draw a distinction between the various types of identifiers that mightE be used in an ACL.  UIC-based identifiers lead to greater maintenanceeB efforts while system-defined identifiers and well designed general2 identifier schemes should be good for a long time.  E If you have multiple systems not in a cluster, I don't think there is G anything to prevent facility-based identifiers for site-specific (i.e.,p unregistered) facilities.a  ] http://www.ljk.com/ljk/LJK_SECURITY_DOCUMENTATION/LJK_SECURITY_D_010.HTML#tests_disk_aclidentt   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2002 02:13:03 GMTa1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>eN Subject: Re: Philosophical use of ACLs (related to "setting up a VMS dev env")' Message-ID: <3D3F633B.467127E3@fsi.net>s   Chris Olive wrote: > E > The Google news feed is a bit slow (I'm going to have to tap into afF > better News service, it would seem), so I don't know what the public? > response to my previous post ("How to setup a VMS developmento > environment") has been.o > D > Anyway, that post has drawn some interesting personal emails.  AllD > very cordial.  But it seems quite a few folks make en masse use of> > ACLs on a scale that I would consider to be administratively > nightmarish...    H Read up on how to set "default" ACEs on directories and how to propagate) them onto the files in those directories.r   -- y David J. Dachteraa dba DJE Systemst http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2002 17:37:00 -0500u4 From: Arlen Williams <arlen.williams@remove.eds.com>- Subject: Preventing ACME_SERVER From Startingo- Message-ID: <3D3F2C0C.3000108@remove.eds.com>   = How do you prevent the ACME_SERVER from starting? Looking at  3 SYLOGICALS.COM it says you should do the following:t  - $ DEFINE/SYSTEM/EXEC ACME$TO_BE_STARTED FALSE-  E and according to ACME$STARTUP.COM you should make the same change to mI SYLOGICALS (except it says to use NO instead of FALSE). I know they both mI work the same way, but the ACME_SERVER process gets started anyway using nG either logical definition. It looks like ACME$STARTUP.COM is being run dB before SYLOGICALS.COM. Does anyone know the correct procedure for % preventing ACME_SERVER from starting?o   ------------------------------    Date: 24 Jul 2002 17:27:49 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) 1 Subject: Re: Preventing ACME_SERVER From Starting 3 Message-ID: <jTfMTGSw70Xm@eisner.encompasserve.org>k  d In article <3D3F2C0C.3000108@remove.eds.com>, Arlen Williams <arlen.williams@remove.eds.com> writes:? > How do you prevent the ACME_SERVER from starting? Looking at o5 > SYLOGICALS.COM it says you should do the following:m > / > $ DEFINE/SYSTEM/EXEC ACME$TO_BE_STARTED FALSEm > G > and according to ACME$STARTUP.COM you should make the same change to wK > SYLOGICALS (except it says to use NO instead of FALSE). I know they both uK > work the same way, but the ACME_SERVER process gets started anyway using aI > either logical definition. It looks like ACME$STARTUP.COM is being run iD > before SYLOGICALS.COM. Does anyone know the correct procedure for ' > preventing ACME_SERVER from starting?   C I believe those controls date from VMS V7.2 when use of ACME_SERVERoE was optional, only needed for certain products.  I believe these daysf4 ACME_SERVER is started automatically on all systems.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2002 13:08:08 -0500c+ From: Chuck Aaron <caaron@ceris.purdue.edu>   Subject: printer status question0 Message-ID: <3D3EED08.E3A2BB14@ceris.purdue.edu>   Group,  E I have used stop/queue/reset post$print and then restarted the queue.vC I then submit this job and it remains in Starting status and is not E printing. There are no error messages showing on the queue or printeri itself. Any suggestions?   Chuckl   CHUCK> show entry/full 8604   Entry  Jobname         Username     Blocks  Status4   -----  -------         --------     ------  ------6     860  FR072302        AARON             2  Starting)          On busy printer queue POST$PRINTn=          Submitted 24-JUL-2002 13:07:22.38 /FORM=DCPS$DEFAULTn (stock=DEFAULT) /PRIORITY=100 E          File: _$7$DKE400:[UPDATES.FRUPDTS]FR072302.RPT;1 (printing))w CHUCK>   ------------------------------  + Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2002 11:35:10 -0700 (PDT)e. From: Fabio Cardoso <fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br>$ Subject: Re: printer status question? Message-ID: <20020724183510.4248.qmail@web20210.mail.yahoo.com>l   Chuckt  0 I had this problem too.... May be because I have5 almost 1500 Telnetsym printers in my server. I am note6 sure, but I believe it is related to some problem with3 memory. I never had a good diagnose. Sometimes the l$ shutdown of the Queue Manager works:   $ MC JBC$COMMAND SHUTDOWNa $ START/QUE/MANAGER   0 It stops the Queue Manager and all the queues in' your server. If this dont work... >>> B>   Regardsw   FC n  0 --- Chuck Aaron <caaron@ceris.purdue.edu> wrote: > Group, > 2 > I have used stop/queue/reset post$print and then > restarted the queue.3 > I then submit this job and it remains in Startingi > status and is nots6 > printing. There are no error messages showing on the > queue or printer > itself. Any suggestions? >  > Chuck  >  > CHUCK> show entry/full 8606 >   Entry  Jobname         Username     Blocks  Status6 >   -----  -------         --------     ------  ------/ >     860  FR072302        AARON             2 k
 > Starting+ >          On busy printer queue POST$PRINTi, >          Submitted 24-JUL-2002 13:07:22.38 > /FORM=DCPS$DEFAULT > (stock=DEFAULT) /PRIORITY=100r >          File:, > _$7$DKE400:[UPDATES.FRUPDTS]FR072302.RPT;1
 > (printing))l > CHUCK>     =====e ========================== Fbio dos Santos Cardoso OpenVMS System Manager Rio de Janeiro - Brazily fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br ==========================  2 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!?( Yahoo! Health - Feel better, live better http://health.yahoo.com:   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2002 15:46:28 -0400h* From: WILLIAM WEBB <WWEBB1@email.usps.gov>$ Subject: RE: printer status question- Message-ID: <0033000073830521000002L012*@MHS>   ; =0ADid you restart the queue by running DCPS$STARTUP.COM or( by using $START/QUEUE?  5 I don't think that the queue will start properly with,5 the latter command if it's a queue that DCPS sets up,   4 **but it's been a while since I did any serious DCPS   configuration**a  7 (In a relatively static local environment, one sets 'emf  up and then leaves 'em alone...)   WWWebb   -----Original Message-----/ From: Info-VAX-Request@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNETr& Sent: Wednesday, July 24, 2002 2:19 PMB To: Webb, William W Raleigh, NC; Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNET  Subject: printer status question     Group,  E I have used stop/queue/reset post$print and then restarted the queue. C I then submit this job and it remains in Starting status and is not_E printing. There are no error messages showing on the queue or printer  itself. Any suggestions?   Chuck    CHUCK> show entry/full 8604   Entry  Jobname         Username     Blocks  Status4   -----  -------         --------     ------  ------6     860  FR072302        AARON             2  Starting)          On busy printer queue POST$PRINTi?          Submitted 24-JUL-2002 13:07:22.38 /FORM=3DDCPS$DEFAULTn! (stock=3DDEFAULT) /PRIORITY=3D100vE          File: _$7$DKE400:[UPDATES.FRUPDTS]FR072302.RPT;1 (printing)): CHUCK>=o   ------------------------------    Date: 24 Jul 2002 16:52:05 -0700# From: dooleys@snowy.net.au (dooley) $ Subject: Re: printer status question< Message-ID: <1ca82fc6.0207241552.553bb7f@posting.google.com>  c Chuck Aaron <caaron@ceris.purdue.edu> wrote in message news:<3D3EED08.E3A2BB14@ceris.purdue.edu>...  > Group, > G > I have used stop/queue/reset post$print and then restarted the queue. E > I then submit this job and it remains in Starting status and is notSG > printing. There are no error messages showing on the queue or printern > itself. Any suggestions? >  > Chuckg >  > CHUCK> show entry/full 8606 >   Entry  Jobname         Username     Blocks  Status6 >   -----  -------         --------     ------  ------8 >     860  FR072302        AARON             2  Starting+ >          On busy printer queue POST$PRINTy? >          Submitted 24-JUL-2002 13:07:22.38 /FORM=DCPS$DEFAULT. > (stock=DEFAULT) /PRIORITY=100=G >          File: _$7$DKE400:[UPDATES.FRUPDTS]FR072302.RPT;1 (printing))o > CHUCK> For dcps queues try D 1) stop/reset <queue> then start/queue <queue> (which you have done)4 2) stop/reset <queue> then run your dcps$startup.com6 3) delete/queue <queue> then run your dcps$startup.com9 if this does not work then there should be a logical name_8 DCPS$<queue>_DEVICE_NAME that points to the network name or address of the printer, can you ping it? $tcpip ping <nnn.nnn.nnn.nnn>- can you telnet to it? > $telnet <nnn.nnn.nnn.nnn> (then enter "/" to view "?" for help Phil   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2002 21:31:25 GMTsL From: winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU ("Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr")Q Subject: Q: Overriding /separate=flag qualifier for DCPS queues on per-job basis? 8 Message-ID: <00A116A7.40B4EFD4@SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>   Comp.os.vmsers --a  - VMS 7.2-2  (on DS20E, but I doubt it matters)  DCPS 1.2  3 My DCPS execution queues are defined like this one:-  & sho que 120_mailroom$120_mailroom/full@ Printer queue 120_MAILROOM$120_MAILROOM, idle, on SSRL::.LPS120,) mounted form DCPS$DEFAULT (stock=DEFAULT) ?   /BASE_PRIORITY=4 /DEFAULT=(FORM=DCPS$DEFAULT (stock=DEFAULT)) ?   /NOENABLE_GENERIC /LIBRARY=DCPS_LIB Lowercase /OWNER=[SYSTEM] F   /PROCESSOR=DCPS$SMB /PROTECTION=(S:M,O:D,G:R,W:S) /SCHEDULE=(NOSIZE)   /SEPARATE=(FLAG)    M To me, it's obvious that on a printer shared by multiple users, you want flagi. pages so that you can tell whose job is whose.  M However, every so often, some of my users decide that flag pages are evil andnI want to print without them.  (One batch of users even included "takes two I sheets of paper to print a one-page document" as one of their reasons fornO wanting to abandon a working VMS application in favor of developing an NT-based= one.  Yow.)a  N So I want to let users opt out of flag pages - if they're willing to  take theN additional risk that their document will get mixed up with somebody else's, toM let them do it.  But I want flag pages to be the default, because they're (tot me) obviously the Right Thing.  9 Is there a way to do this (on the same physical printer)?m   While you can do   $ PRINT /NOFLAG:  M it doesn't override the /SEPARATE=FLAG setting on the execution queue.  (Thisa, is correctly documented in the online help.)  N [I could find this one out by trying, but if anybody knows I'd rather save theM effort: If I define a generic queue with /SEPARATE=(NOFLAG) will that settingt- override the setting on the execution queue?]e  G If you want to try to persuade me that flag pages on printers shared bylL dozens of people are, in fact, evil, go ahead, but you'll have to be awfully persuasive.    Thanks,o   -- Alant    O =============================================================================== 0  Alan Winston --- WINSTON@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDUM  Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056 M  Physical mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 69, PO BOX 4349, STANFORD, CA  94309-0210iO ===============================================================================    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2002 04:53:37 +0200b2 From: martin@radiogaga.harz.de (Martin Vorlaender)U Subject: Re: Q: Overriding /separate=flag qualifier for DCPS queues on per-job basis?n; Message-ID: <3d3f6831.524144494f47414741@radiogaga.harz.de>!  K Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr (winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU) wrote:e5 > My DCPS execution queues are defined like this one:  > ( > sho que 120_mailroom$120_mailroom/fullB > Printer queue 120_MAILROOM$120_MAILROOM, idle, on SSRL::.LPS120,+ > mounted form DCPS$DEFAULT (stock=DEFAULT)mA >   /BASE_PRIORITY=4 /DEFAULT=(FORM=DCPS$DEFAULT (stock=DEFAULT))_A >   /NOENABLE_GENERIC /LIBRARY=DCPS_LIB Lowercase /OWNER=[SYSTEM]?H >   /PROCESSOR=DCPS$SMB /PROTECTION=(S:M,O:D,G:R,W:S) /SCHEDULE=(NOSIZE) >   /SEPARATE=(FLAG) ...=F > So I want to let users opt out of flag pages - if they're willing toE > take the additional risk that their document will get mixed up with=F > somebody else's, to let them do it.  But I want flag pages to be the= > default, because they're (to me) obviously the Right Thing.t > ; > Is there a way to do this (on the same physical printer)?  >a > While you can do >3 > $ PRINT /NOFLAGe >cH > it doesn't override the /SEPARATE=FLAG setting on the execution queue.4 > (This is correctly documented in the online help.)  G Likewise it's documented that $PRINT /NOFLAG negates a queue setting ofl@ /DEFAULT=FLAG . So why don't you use that instead of /SEPARATE ?  G > [I could find this one out by trying, but if anybody knows I'd ratherwF > save the effort: If I define a generic queue with /SEPARATE=(NOFLAG)A > will that setting override the setting on the execution queue?]   E Documentation again: "You cannot use the /SEPARATE qualifier with thet /GENERIC qualifier."  F > If you want to try to persuade me that flag pages on printers sharedF > by dozens of people are, in fact, evil, go ahead, but you'll have to > be awfully persuasive.   I certainly won't try ;-)r   cu,n   Martin -- cG So long, and thanks        | Martin Vorlaender  |  VMS & WNT programmera4 for all the books...       | work: mv@pdv-systeme.deG In Memoriam Douglas Adams  |   http://www.pdv-systeme.de/users/martinv/v;             1952-2001      | home: martin@radiogaga.harz.deh   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2002 23:49:03 +0200h9 From: Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com>iY Subject: Re: Q: Overriding /separate=flag qualifier for DCPS queues on per-job basis? bass' Message-ID: <3D3F20CF.3880FCE7@aaa.com>r  9 Well, if the users could fetch whatever they have printed28 within 10-15 minutes, instead of either forgetting about< it or coming a week later asking for there printouts, things' would have been much easier, not ?  :-)c  ; My personal opinion is that flag pages are mostly for sitesI; where there are some kind of printer-operators that have toe> sort out (and maybe sent it with the internal post) the stacks@ of paper. If each "printer" fetches his/her own printouts, there is less use of the flag page.d  > And yes, I realy whished I'd be able to answer our question...   Jan-Erik Sderholm.i      * Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr wrote: > O > To me, it's obvious that on a printer shared by multiple users, you want flag 0 > pages so that you can tell whose job is whose. >r   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2002 00:03:17 -0500i2 From: "Stuart Johnson" <ssj152 AT charter DOT net>) Subject: Re: Questions about license paks./ Message-ID: <ujv1kmlv8c4h62@corp.supernews.com>o    Thanks, everyone, for the input!  H The reason I asked the question is that, although I like money and wouldH like to be able to expand my small collection of working computers, I amK committed to keeping my systems legal. I worked as a systems programmer and0G systems architect for 18 years and am acutely sensitive to the theft ofP intellectual property.  D The group that sold me the machine simply scooped the documentation,J floppies, CDRom's, etc. into a large baggie and left it to me to deal withG it; that is what I'm doing. My plan is to use hobbyist licenses on thishL machine as they provide me with the compilers and tools I'm interested in. IK will not be doing commercial work; perhaps some opensource. As a retiree atuG 49, I have a lot of time and not much money :) If I WEREN'T retired, myrE choices could be different; I didn't choose retirement - it chose me.-   Regards, Stuart Johnson ssj152 AT charter DOT netR    5 "Nic Clews" <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1> wrote in messagel# news:3D3E8497.AA846D6F@127.0.0.1...l   <snip> >eG > Strictly, whomever you got that box from broke the licence agreement. H > The *only* licence you should have is the base licence (and I mean theJ > paper), which travels with the hardware. Certain shrink wrapped licencesE > (the pathworks ones may be examples) can optionally be transferred,nG > subject to their terms and conditions. ALl other licences should haveuA > been removed and deleted. They are the intellectual property oftH > Digital/Compaq/HP. There is a process called 'novation' where licencesG > can be transferred from one party to another, via the licensor. Every_% > single licence issue can be traced.t   <snip>--  A > Regards, Nic Clews a.k.a. Mr. CP Charges, CSC Computer Sciences  > nclews at csc dot comy   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2002 11:11:17 -0700t+ From: "Barry Treahy, Jr." <Treahy@mmaz.com>. Subject: Re: RDB Questions' Message-ID: <3D3EEDC5.5080405@mmaz.com>i   Karl Rohwedder wrote:o  0 > I'e just read, that TDMS will make it to IA64. >e Where?   Barryn   --    @ Barry Treahy, Jr  *  Midwest Microwave  *  Vice President & CIO   A E-mail: Treahy@mmaz.com * Phone: 480/314-1320 * FAX: 480/661-7028w   ------------------------------   Date: 24 Jul 2002 19:14:23 GMT4 From: "Jim Strehlow" <JimStrehlowNoSpam@data911.com>' Subject: Re: Single Column text output?i0 Message-ID: <ahmuaf$4fc@dispatch.concentric.net>  @ Maybe your connection setup used 7 parity bits instead of 8 bits or some other such setting.s3 Did you $ SET HOST nodename /LOG before connecting,p $ DEFINE SYS$OUTPUT within DCL,A4 or did you use SPOOL filename within Oracle, or ...?  + Jim Strehlow, Data911.com, Alameda, CA, USAa  6 "Kiasu Surfer" <verykiasu@hotpop.com> wrote in message2 news:gn6sjug2aki5fplce93dqm5pr7tdm9liv8@4ax.com...L > I had a weird experience in spooling a log file from my DCL script calling > Oracle scripts.t >eB > When I use TYPE to list out, the spooled text displayed as norm.H > But when I EDIT it, the visual display show the spooled text as single	 characterc! > in single column vertical down.u >m
 > Should be:-a- > ORACLE Server Manager... blah blah blah....i >e > In Edit mode:- > Oe > Rh > Ao > Ce > L  > Eb >t. > Can someone help me to rectify this problem.	 > Thanks.l
 > Regards, >o > Kevin Laii >A > **************** > ** SPAM BLOCK ** > ****************A > REPLACE "verykiasu" with "iamverykiasu" at verykiasu@hotpop.com    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2002 14:18:06 -0400-! From: Jim Agnew <jpagnew@vcu.edu>LM Subject: Re: Size of the comp.os.vms readership ? , was: RE: OpenVMS webring:D' Message-ID: <3D3EEF5E.2EABE4FF@vcu.edu>k   1 dollar...   ;-)C   Don Sykes wrote: >  > "Main, Kerry" wrote: > F > > I would be interested in guesses about the size of the comp.os.vms > > readershipJ > > however. Obviously, with Usenet been Usenet, you can't put an accurate
 > > figureB > > on the number of readers, but there are a couple of sources of > > informationkI > > to allow you to make a guess for the ratio between posters and peopleA > > whon > > only read the group. > > K > I've thought about that too. Of course we can only gauge by the number oflR > posters. For this ng it may be a 1-to-1 correspondence :) One of us who has timeN > should collect all the posters from a Google search, sort them and count theP > number of postings and publish the results. I'm not sure how far back Google'sC > archives go, but I've seen messages from me that are years old... R > Actually, if everyone reading this sends me $1 US, I'll do the search :) In factA > I'll just count the money and let you all know how much I made!a > Send all $'s to: > 1380 Lincoln Ave - Suite 5 > San Rafael, CA  94901  USA > = > I promise to use all proceeds to buy a new VMS workstation.t > -- >  > Have VMS. Will Travel. > Wire Paladin (@alphase.com)a > San FranciscoS   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2002 17:27:18 GMT ( From: Don Sykes <annonymous@pacbell.net>M Subject: Re: Size of the comp.os.vms readership ? , was: RE: OpenVMS webring:n* Message-ID: <3D3EE3CC.7565140@pacbell.net>   "Main, Kerry" wrote:  D > I would be interested in guesses about the size of the comp.os.vms > readershipH > however. Obviously, with Usenet been Usenet, you can't put an accurate > figure@ > on the number of readers, but there are a couple of sources of
 > information0G > to allow you to make a guess for the ratio between posters and peoplee > who2 > only read the group. > I I've thought about that too. Of course we can only gauge by the number ofsP posters. For this ng it may be a 1-to-1 correspondence :) One of us who has timeL should collect all the posters from a Google search, sort them and count theN number of postings and publish the results. I'm not sure how far back Google'sA archives go, but I've seen messages from me that are years old...lP Actually, if everyone reading this sends me $1 US, I'll do the search :) In fact? I'll just count the money and let you all know how much I made!r Send all $'s to: 1380 Lincoln Ave - Suite 5 San Rafael, CA  94901  USA  ; I promise to use all proceeds to buy a new VMS workstation.  -- q   Have VMS. Will Travel. Wire Paladin (@alphase.com) 
 San Francisco    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2002 14:52:12 -0700r0 From: Mark Berryman <Mark.Berryman@Mvb.Saic.Com>M Subject: Re: Size of the comp.os.vms readership ? , was: RE: OpenVMS webring:l, Message-ID: <3D3EBF1C.65652328@Mvb.Saic.Com>   Don Sykes wrote: >  > "Main, Kerry" wrote: > F > > I would be interested in guesses about the size of the comp.os.vms > > readershipJ > > however. Obviously, with Usenet been Usenet, you can't put an accurate
 > > figureB > > on the number of readers, but there are a couple of sources of > > information[I > > to allow you to make a guess for the ratio between posters and people= > > who= > > only read the group. > >rK > I've thought about that too. Of course we can only gauge by the number of.R > posters. For this ng it may be a 1-to-1 correspondence :) One of us who has timeN > should collect all the posters from a Google search, sort them and count theP > number of postings and publish the results. I'm not sure how far back Google'sC > archives go, but I've seen messages from me that are years old...uR > Actually, if everyone reading this sends me $1 US, I'll do the search :) In factA > I'll just count the money and let you all know how much I made!  > Send all $'s to: > 1380 Lincoln Ave - Suite 5 > San Rafael, CA  94901  USA > = > I promise to use all proceeds to buy a new VMS workstation.  > --  F Well, some of us don't need to search google to find this information. 8-)e  E Since the beginning of this year there have been over 2500 posters toe< this forum (well, more accurately, over 2500 different From:G addresses).  I did notice a handfull of duplicates in that list but theI number is close to that.  H To answer another question: the Info-VAX mailing list fluctuates in size, but there are more additions than deletions.  
 Mark Berrymani Mark.Berryman@Mvb.Saic.Com   ------------------------------   Date: 25 Jul 2002 00:21:36 GMT2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)R Subject: Re: usage of LIB$M_FIS_MIXEDCASE in the lib$find_image_symbol RTL routine* Message-ID: <ahngag$jjm$1@web1.cup.hp.com>  W In article <24JUL200207075969@gerg.tamu.edu>, carl@gerg.tamu.edu (Carl Perkins) writes: 3 :ksubrama1@yahoo.com (Kannan Viswanathan) writes...dB :}In my code , I am using the lib$find_image_symbol call to invokeF :}functions in a shared image. The modules in the shared image as wellB :}as the code that invokes  are compiled with switches "as_is" and3 :}"shortened" and hence want to turn on the flag inuD :}lib$find_image_symbol which will invoke symbols without converting :}them to uppercase. :} g* :}Here is my code segment to achieve this. :}..0 :}unsigned longword flags = LIB$M_FIS_MIXEDCASE; :}..A :}status = LIB$FIND_IMAGE_SYMBOL(&log_dsc, &func_dsc, &retval, 0, 
 :}&flags); :} dC :}This is on alpha/openvms 7.3 and the entire code is compiled witht
 :}pointer=64.  :} nA :}The above segment doesn't seem to work. When I step through the 6 :}debugger, the message I get at the point of invoking :}lib$find_image_symbol is :} b$ :}%LIB-F-INVARG, invalid argument(s) :}  H :}When I change the flags argument to "0", the RTL routine  succeeds but= :}upcases the symbol by default which is not I want to happenr :} e8 :}I will greatly appreciate your experience in using the$ :}LIB$M_FIS_MIXEDCASE for this call. :PJ :I'm not certain of this, but it may be complaining that the 4th parameterI :is not valid. The last two are optional, but to specify the last one youtH :may need to specify the next to last one as a valid value. "0" is not aG :valid descriptor address. You might try making that "&log_dsc" too, or F :something appropraite. When you change the last one to "0" it works -I :not because "0" is a valid address to find the flags at, but because "0"aI :is what is used by these things to represent "the optional parameter wasl :not specified".    M   Having just checked the source code, the flags argument is passed by value.     N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------N       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.com    N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------    Date: 24 Jul 2002 15:59:25 -07003 From: dertiesanchez18@hotmail.com (D'ertie Sanchez)  Subject: Vax Emulators; Message-ID: <1d3c39.0207241459.51d8a9b4@posting.google.com>s  , Dear Jim'll, Comunity, Sensais and Shenobis,  B As a young grass hopper I have recently discovered the delights of OpenVMS.D I am/Was running 7.3 on a Pico vax emulator but sadly the time limitE has run out...... You may be thinking all good things must come to anoF end.... but I am of the understanding that someone out there has a way. of overcoming such date limitation techniques!  D As I am a mere student in the sacred art of DCL, fighting to achieveB my Orange belt, any tips or hints as to where such date delimitingC software may be found or the location of a date un-limited emulator D that I could run OpenVms on would be of great use, as I hope one day! to reach the grade of Second DAN!o  F I understand that for certain legal reasons you may not be able to fix
 it for me.   D'ertie Sanchezd Pushing Into Sandals,u New Mexio Dojo.l  s	    ||||||h	    (O)(O)B     (..)     ----     L__J   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2002 23:18:31 GMTe! From: Andy <acs@fcgnet.works.net>i Subject: Re: Vax Emulators> Message-ID: <Xns9255C423F38BCacsfcgnetworksnet@216.166.71.232>  A dertiesanchez18@hotmail.com (D'ertie Sanchez) enlightened us with 4 news:1d3c39.0207241459.51d8a9b4@posting.google.com:   . > Dear Jim'll, Comunity, Sensais and Shenobis, > A > As a young grass hopper I have recently discovered the delightse
 > of OpenVMS.e   Great ! :-)...  @ > I am/Was running 7.3 on a Pico vax emulator but sadly the time > limit has run out......l  # (Isn't this in the FAQ somewhere ?)g  B One assumes that you've checked out simh which can be found here:   $     	http://simh.trailing-edge.com/    and Google:=  ? http://groups.google.com/groups?as_q=simh&as_ugroup=comp.os.vmsL  5 It compiles & runs on a number of different machines.    -Andy- -- L   ------------------------------   Date: 25 Jul 2002 00:58:46 GMT2 From: "Zane H. Healy" <healyzh@shell1.aracnet.com> Subject: Re: Vax Emulators+ Message-ID: <ahnig60t7m@enews1.newsguy.com>-  4 D'ertie Sanchez <dertiesanchez18@hotmail.com> wrote:E > software may be found or the location of a date un-limited emulatorcF > that I could run OpenVms on would be of great use, as I hope one day  J For information on the wide range of DEC Emulators that are available, you+ can check out my web site on the subject at.+ http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/decemu.htmlo  J There are at least three emulators capable of running OpenVMS.  PersonallyK I'd recommend looking into some real hardware.  You can pickup a VAXstationoJ 3100 or 4000 series system dirt cheap.  For a nice *small* VMS system, youL can't beat a VAXstation 4000/vlc.  OTOH, I personally prefer more speed, and my main system is a PWS433au.O   			Zane$   ------------------------------   Date: 25 Jul 2002 02:41:57 GMT2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) Subject: Re: Vax Emulators* Message-ID: <ahnohl$lcv$1@web1.cup.hp.com>  < In article <1d3c39.0207241459.51d8a9b4@posting.google.com>, 5 dertiesanchez18@hotmail.com (D'ertie Sanchez) writes:c :e, Dear Jim'll, Comunity, Sensais and Shenobis, : C :As a young grass hopper I have recently discovered the delights ofh	 :OpenVMS. E :I am/Was running 7.3 on a Pico vax emulator but sadly the time limitGF :has run out...... You may be thinking all good things must come to anG :end.... but I am of the understanding that someone out there has a wayq/ :of overcoming such date limitation techniques!u   ..  G :I understand that for certain legal reasons you may not be able to fixf :it for me.s       Kohai Sanchez,  J   You wish assistance while admitting knowledge of one or more violations J   of software licensing, claiming poverty as a defense?  In this context, H   your use of such terminology as sensei and shinobi is quite troubling.J   (I will assume that you do not truely wish to appear as gaijin or kaitouL   as one might infer from your phrasing, nor do you actually wish to appear    to be disruptive, hai?)i  G   For information on some of the available VAX emulators, please reviewr   the OpenVMS FAQ.  F   As for your claims of poverty, used VAX and used Alpha equipment is J   readily available from various vendors, as are (free) hobbyist licenses G   and (cheap) CD-ROM media.  Reasonable Alpha systems are available for-D   Sen dollars or less, and various VAXstation systems will likely be   less expensive than that.e     Ja ne,
   Kyoshi Hoffj  N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------N       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.com    N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2002 07:42:39 +0200a- From: Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@Free.fr>  Subject: Re: Vax Emulators' Message-ID: <3D3F8FCF.88AE961D@Free.fr>t  - See hobbyist CHARON-VAX at www.softresint.comp   D.   D'ertie Sanchez wrote: > . > Dear Jim'll, Comunity, Sensais and Shenobis, > D > As a young grass hopper I have recently discovered the delights of
 > OpenVMS.F > I am/Was running 7.3 on a Pico vax emulator but sadly the time limitG > has run out...... You may be thinking all good things must come to antH > end.... but I am of the understanding that someone out there has a way0 > of overcoming such date limitation techniques! > F > As I am a mere student in the sacred art of DCL, fighting to achieveD > my Orange belt, any tips or hints as to where such date delimitingE > software may be found or the location of a date un-limited emulator,F > that I could run OpenVms on would be of great use, as I hope one day# > to reach the grade of Second DAN!o   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2002 14:43:25 -0700 * From: "Alder" <MUNDDGNTDYTV@spammotel.com>7 Subject: Re: [Hobbyist] install of SQL/Services problemh+ Message-ID: <3d3f1f7f$1@obsidian.gov.bc.ca>e   Hi all,e  J I've gone through some of the documentation and output traces from Rdb andE SQL/Services and found two COM files which apparently deinstall their L associated products.  That at least would / should give me a chance to retry the install "clean".  H The deinstallation of Rdb itself posed no problems, but the SQL/ServicesF install raised an objection that it could not find the "_NET0" object.L Snooping in the COM file, I found a reference to this object in a subroutineH related to Decnet.  I have Decnet-Plus installed on this hobbyist systemI thanks to the advice of someone on another of my threads, but as far as I ( know it's not actively "doing" anything.  H So I can't install SQL/Services and I can't deinstall SQL/Services.  Any help most warmly accepted!   Aldera    5 "Alder" <MUNDDGNTDYTV@spammotel.com> wrote in messagee# news:3d3db66e@obsidian.gov.bc.ca... K I'm installing the hobbyist version of Rdb and SQL/Services (multiversion),nB and have run up against a problem.  It seems that the InstallationL Verification Procedure for SQL/Services cannot find the GENERIC service.  AtC least that is my interpretation of the output from the installationaC procedure.  The output is the result of my second attempt; messagesbK referring to existing registry entries refer to my first attempt to installp the kit.  K Can someone possibly offer some sage advice on how to get this successfully2J installed?  Here is a portion of the installation procedure's output alongJ with the output of SHOW SYSTEM immediately following the IVP's completion:   Thanks,o Alder   L ----------------------------------------------------------------------------L %REGISTER-I-DUP SQLSRV_PRVSHR70, (SQLSRV_PRVSHR, V7.0-6) already in registry< %REGISTER-I-SUMMARY  images examined: 1, dependent images: 1  A     *************************************************************m  9     Please refer to the Oracle SQL/Services release notes:4     for specific instructions for setting up SQL*Net9     configuration files for use with Oracle SQL/Services.d  A     *************************************************************o  ? %VMSINSTAL-I-MOVEFILES, Files will now be moved to their target  directories...    Starting Oracle SQL/Services.  % Installing Oracle SQL/Services images.L %REGISTER-I-DUP SQLSRV_PRVSHR70, (SQLSRV_PRVSHR, V7.0-6) already in registry< %REGISTER-I-SUMMARY  images examined: 1, dependent images: 1 Starting Oracle SQL/Services SQLSRV> Server started  *  Now executing the Oracle SQL/Services IVP     Starting the TCP/IP test.s  ) ***** Connecting to generic service *****E  ) ***** Oracle SQL/Services IVP Error *****e  1 SQLCA: SQLCODE: -2051  SQLERRD[0]: 0 SQLERRD[2] 0 J SQLERRM.SQLERRMC -SQLSRV-E-SVCNOTRUN, The requested service is not running or isn  not defined  J *** Oracle SQL/Services IVP failed when accessing the  generic service ***( %NONAME-E-NOMSG, Message number 00000002  3    **** Oracle SQL/Services client test failed ****     9  Now executing the following command to verify the Oraclev
  RMU service:.  )    RMU/EXECUTE/COMMAND "RMU/SHOW VERSION"e  0 %DCL-W-ACTIMAGE, error activating image RDMPRV70 -CLI-E-IMGNAME, image file2 HOBBY$DKA0:[SYS0.SYSCOMMON.][SYSLIB]RDMPRV70.EXE;29 -SYSTEM-F-PROTINSTALL, protected images must be installedk  >  *** Oracle RMU IVP failed.  Check to make sure Oracle Rdb 7.0#      is running on this system. ***n  = %VMSINSTAL-E-IVPFAIL, The IVP for SQLSRVAMVF V7.0 has failed.o  >     Adding history entry in VMI$ROOT:[SYSUPD]VMSINSTAL.HISTORY  L     Creating installation data file: VMI$ROOT:[SYSUPD]SQLSRVAMVF070.VMI_DATA    )         VMSINSTAL procedure done at 12:03a    	 $ sho sysrH OpenVMS V7.2  on node HOBBY  23-JUL-2002 12:06:46.01  Uptime  2 12:20:09F   Pid    Process Name    State  Pri      I/O       CPU       Page flts Pages F 00000081 SWAPPER         HIB     16        0   0 00:00:05.14         0 0aF 00000084 LANACP          HIB     12       54   0 00:00:00.11       127 95F 00000086 IPCACP          HIB     10        9   0 00:00:00.02        31 43F 00000087 ERRFMT          HIB      8     6583   0 00:00:07.07        88 103sF 00000089 OPCOM           HIB      9      464   0 00:00:00.34       159 47F 0000008A AUDIT_SERVER    HIB      9      320   0 00:00:00.42       139 168 F 0000008B JOB_CONTROL     HIB     10      365   0 00:00:00.26        62 85F 0000008C SECURITY_SERVER HIB     10      720   0 00:00:02.07       707 248tF 0000008E SYSTEM          LEF      5    60704   0 00:02:29.17     67822 113rF 0000008F TCPIP$INET_ACP  HIB     10      223   0 00:00:00.22       276 144 F 00000097 QUEUE_MANAGER   HIB      8      104   0 00:00:00.17       135 172.F 00000098 TNT_SERVER      HIB      6     1398   0 00:00:28.33       800 8334F 0000009C TNT198          LEF      4       41   0 00:00:00.18       598 322  SF 0000009D VPM_SERVER      HIB     15       14   0 00:00:00.11       227 147eF 000000B0 SETI@home 36%   COM      3   436052   1 11:47:44.69      7812 2219  BuF 000000CF _TNA24:         LEF      7    52742   0 00:01:06.79     16173 411gF 000000D6 _TNA25:         CUR      4    21641   0 00:00:37.56     22259 153.F 000000E0 sqlsrv_mon_0070 HIB      6      229   0 00:00:00.46       444 264oF 000000E1 RMU_DISP00470   HIB      6       82   0 00:00:00.21       453 215aF 000000E2 SQLSRV_DIS00370 HIB      6       93   0 00:00:00.22       497 218uF 000000E3 RMU_SE005000170 HIB      6      429   0 00:00:01.07       878 227 F 000000E4 RMU_SE005000270 HIB      6      429   0 00:00:00.86       879 228 F 000000E5 RMU_SE005000370 HIB      6      434   0 00:00:01.05       878 227aF 000000E6 RMU_SE005000470 HIB      6      436   0 00:00:01.01       879 228l $s   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2002 23:52:59 +0200o9 From: Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com>a7 Subject: Re: [Hobbyist] install of SQL/Services problemr' Message-ID: <3D3F21BB.8D205DFA@aaa.com>-  . I don't think you have to de-install anything.. Re-install SQS making sure that Rdb is started8 (RMONSTARTxx). I'm not sure thats important, but I think= I'v always had Rdb running on the systems where I'v installed  SQS.  = And I only run DECnet-IV, so can't say if DECnet-V would be ar
 problem...   Jan-Erik Sderholm.t   Alder wrote: > 	 > Hi all,  > L > I've gone through some of the documentation and output traces from Rdb andG > SQL/Services and found two COM files which apparently deinstall their N > associated products.  That at least would / should give me a chance to retry > the install "clean". >    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2002 15:19:46 -0700 * From: "Alder" <MUNDDGNTDYTV@spammotel.com>7 Subject: Re: [Hobbyist] install of SQL/Services problemh+ Message-ID: <3d3f2804$1@obsidian.gov.bc.ca>f  G Thanks for the suggestion, Jan-Erik.  I did try to reinstall SQS two oriI three times, with Rdb running and with Rdb not running, but both attempts  resulted in the same error.e  J The SQS IVP error actually occurs on the TCPIP test, whereas the deinstallK fails on the DECnet portion.  Perhaps DECnet, if it's installed as it is incK my case, must be "started" in order to install, or deinstall?  What processAJ name should I see in SHOW SYSTEM if it's on?  If it's not there, how can I "start" it, please.o   Cheers,n Alder   3 "Jan-Erik Sderholm" <aaa@aaa.com> wrote in messagec! news:3D3F21BB.8D205DFA@aaa.com...h0 > I don't think you have to de-install anything.0 > Re-install SQS making sure that Rdb is started: > (RMONSTARTxx). I'm not sure thats important, but I think? > I'v always had Rdb running on the systems where I'v installedh > SQS. >m? > And I only run DECnet-IV, so can't say if DECnet-V would be a  > problem... >k > Jan-Erik Sderholm.a >v > Alder wrote: > >- > > Hi all,- > >-J > > I've gone through some of the documentation and output traces from Rdb andoI > > SQL/Services and found two COM files which apparently deinstall theirbJ > > associated products.  That at least would / should give me a chance to retry0 > > the install "clean". > >r   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2002 04:00:09 GMTh( From: Alder <PGDEHMKOKIMD@spammotel.com>7 Subject: Re: [Hobbyist] install of SQL/Services problema, Message-ID: <3D3F77C8.2030700@spammotel.com>   Jan-Erik Sderholm wrote:i0 > I don't think you have to de-install anything.  ; Some progress to report, and some leftover issues with RMU.i  B I did deinstall both Rdb and SQS to clean out as much as I could, C including the SYSUAF.  Looking back at the kinds of messages I was nI getting, it occured to me that even though I had installed DECnet-Plus I G had not configured it yet.  G I did that, and with DECnet running this time, as well as UCX, I tried tG the Rdb/SQS install.  I also elected not to install SQL*Net this time, sB as it doesn't seem essential at the moment.  The Rdb install went I perfectly as it always had, and the SQS did too, at least until I got to I? the RMU portion of the SQS installation verification procedure.e  F At that point, I received the error message cited below.  It suggests D the most common causes of the error are that Rdb and/or SQS are not F running.  Since the install procedure starts these services I think I G have that covered.  A SHOW SYSTEM immediately following the completion iI of the IVP shows both Rdb Monitor and SQS are indeed running.  The other mC suggestion the message makes is that the "chosen transport" is not aF configured properly.  Here's what the install verification had to say  about transports:o   Starting the DECnet test.a ...e# DECnet test completed successfully.i   Starting the TCP/IP test.  ... " TCPIP test completed successfully.8 Oracle SQL/Services client tests completed successfully.  H So what could I be missing?  The RMU error occurs immediately after the $ DECnet and TCPIP tests.  Here it is:J ==========================================================================:   Now executing the following command to verify the Oracle   RMU service:  *     RMU/EXECUTE/COMMAND "RMU/SHOW VERSION"  = %RMU-F-ERREXCCMD, Error executing command "RMU/SHOW VERSION". C -RMU-E-CONNECTERR, Error connecting to server. To correct the most -
 common causes I   of this problem, check that SQL/Services is running on the server node e and that6   your network is configured for the chosen transport.H %RMU-F-FTL_RMU, Fatal error for RMU operation at 24-JUL-2002 19:03:10.84  ?   *** Oracle RMU IVP failed.  Check to make sure Oracle Rdb 7.0g$       is running on this system. ***  = %VMSINSTAL-E-IVPFAIL, The IVP for SQLSRVAMVF V7.0 has failed..  ?      Adding history entry in VMI$ROOT:[SYSUPD]VMSINSTAL.HISTORY   &      Creating installation data file: ' VMI$ROOT:[SYSUPD]SQLSRVAMVF070.VMI_DATA    ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2002.406 ************************ieveB my Orange belt, any tips or hints as to where such date delimitingC software may be found or the location of a date un-limited emulator D that I could run Ope8    8    8    8    8    8    8    8    8    8    8    8    8    8    8    8    8    8    8    8    8    8    8    8    8    8    8    8    8    8    8    8    8    8    8    8    8    8    8    8    8    8    8    8    8    8    8    8    8    8    8    8    8    8    8    8    8    8    8    8    8    8    8    8    8    8    8    8    8    8    8    8    8    8    8    8    8    8    8    8    8    8    8    8    8    8    8    8    8    8    8    8    8    8    8    8    8    8    8    8    8    8    8    8    8    8    8    8    8    8    8    8    8    8    8    8    8    8    8    8    8    8    8    8    8    8    8    8     9    9    9    9    9    9    9    9    9    	9    
9    9    9    
9    9    9    9    9    9    9    9    9    9    9    9    9    9    9    9    9    9    9     9    !9    "9    #9    $9    %9    &9    '9    (9    )9    *9    +9    ,9    -9    .9    /9    09    19    29    39    49    59    69    79    89    99    :9    ;9    <9    =9    >9    ?9    @9    A9    B9    C9    D9    E9    F9    G9    H9    I9    J9    K9    L9    M9    N9    O9    P9    Q9    R9    S9    T9    U9    V9    W9    X9    Y9    Z9    [9    \9    ]9    ^9    _9    `9    a9    b9    c9    d9    e9    f9    g9    h9    i9    j9    k9    l9    m9    n9    o9    p9    q9    r9    s9    t9    u9    v9    w9    x9    y9    z9    {9    |9    }9    ~9    9    9    9    9    9    9    9    9    9    9    9    9    9    9    9    9    9    9    9    9    9    9    9    9    9    9    9    9    9    9    9    9    9    9    9    9    9    9    9    9    9    9    9    9    9    9    9    9    9    9    9    9    9    9    9    9    9    9    9    9    9    9    9    9    9    9    9    9    9    9    9    9    9    9    9    9    9    9    9    9    9    9    9    9    9    9    9    9    9    9    9    9    9    9    9    9    9    9    9    9    9    9    9    9    9    9    9    9    9    9    9    9    9    9    9    9    9    9    9    9    9    9    9    9    9    9    9    9    9    