1 INFO-VAX	Mon, 29 Jul 2002	Volume 2002 : Issue 415       Contents:3 Re: ??== List of which OVMS runs on which hardware. 3 RE: ??== List of which OVMS runs on which hardware. % Re: ??== OVMS on a Alpha Server 3000. / Announcing WRUG LUG meeting - August 13th, 2002  Apache authentication  Re: Apache authentication  Re: Apache authentication  Re: building perl on VMS) Re: controlling telnet / ftp login access  Re: Corporate email directories 
 DS10 problems  Re: DS10 problems  Re: DS10 problems   Re: how to delete recursively...  Re: how to delete recursively...  Re: how to delete recursively... RE: HSG80 RAID5 Warning  Re: HSG80 RAID5 Warning # Re: HSV , Snaps and older databases + Re: Itanic2 - the cHumPaq spin continues... + Re: Itanic2 - the cHumPaq spin continues... + Re: Itanic2 - the cHumPaq spin continues... + Re: Itanic2 - the cHumPaq spin continues... + Re: Itanic2 - the cHumPaq spin continues... + RE: Itanic2 - the cHumPaq spin continues...  Re: Low-level format SCSI disk Re: MIPS and TPS Re: MIPS and TPS Re: MIPS and TPS Re: OpenVMS documentation.... ?  Re: OpenVMS documentation.... ? + Re: OpenVMS Itanium tour update II ... wow! ( Re: OT: Microsoft set-top boxes dial 911E Re: Philosophical use of ACLs (related to "setting up a VMS dev env") E Re: Philosophical use of ACLs (related to "setting up a VMS dev env")  PointSecure ( Re: Preventing ACME_SERVER From Starting Re: printer status question ! Running an .EXE from a .COM file. % Re: Running an .EXE from a .COM file. % Re: Running an .EXE from a .COM file.  Re: sftp for OpenVMS Using PCA on an Apache module   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2002 10:17:13 +0100 % From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net> < Subject: Re: ??== List of which OVMS runs on which hardware.8 Message-ID: <pu1aku8m4k553u566ab8qkmhejg4mqnvvn@4ax.com>  E On Sat, 27 Jul 2002 18:18:51 +0200, aus@vim.uni-wuerzburg.de (Hans M.  Aus) wrote:   I >I've seen several references to a list on DSN that shows which OVMS runs ; >on which hardware. Is thie list also available on the web?   1 The definitive document is the "SPD" available at  www.openvms.compaq.com     -- Alan   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2002 07:45:35 -0400 ' From: "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@hp.com> < Subject: RE: ??== List of which OVMS runs on which hardware.T Message-ID: <BE56C50EA024184DAF48F0B9A47F5CF40266089D@kaoexc01.americas.cpqcorp.net>   Hans,   H As Alan mentioned, the best place for this type of information about anyF "official" aspect of what HW the latest version of OpenVMS supports isH the SPD (software product description). Latest versions can be found at:  4 http://www.compaq.com/info/SP2501/SP2501PF.PDF (PDF)/ http://www.compaq.com/info/spd/ (Main SPD page)   F Another good source of info on which HW requires what version of older$ versions of OpenVMS can be found at:7 http://www.openvms.compaq.com/openvms/supportchart.html    Regards   
 Kerry Main Senior Consultant  Hewlett-Packard Canada! Consulting & Integration Services  Voice: 613-592-4660  Fax   : 613-591-4477 Email: Kerry.Main@hp.com     -----Original Message-----6 From: Hans M. Aus [mailto:aus@vim.uni-wuerzburg.de]=20 Sent: July 27, 2002 12:19 PM To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com < Subject: ??=3D=3D List of which OVMS runs on which hardware.    H I've seen several references to a list on DSN that shows which OVMS runs: on which hardware. Is thie list also available on the web?   --=20 B Cheers, Hans M. Aus, Wuerzburg, Germany,  aus@vim.uni-wuerzburg.de   ------------------------------    Date: 29 Jul 2002 07:55:49 -0600- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) . Subject: Re: ??== OVMS on a Alpha Server 3000.3 Message-ID: <1fGD$FKQDZDi@eisner.encompasserve.org>   x In article <aus-7F8121.18432426072002@wrzx08.rz.uni-wuerzburg.de>, "Aus, Hans Magnus" <aus@vim.uni-wuerzburg.de> writes:+ > Does Open VMS run on a Alpha Server 3000? ! > CPU 1x 500Mhz 21164-P7 ( EV56 )   -    Since I"m posting from one I sure hope so.    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2002 12:35:37 -0400 / From: "Joe H. Gallagher" <dtrwiz@ix.netcom.com> 8 Subject: Announcing WRUG LUG meeting - August 13th, 2002- Message-ID: <3D456ED5.98337B58@ix.netcom.com>   B Announcement of August 13th WRUG Meeting (regular time and place)  Western Reserve Users Group , Northeast Ohio Local User Group of Encompass  # Topic: Wireless Technology Overview   7   This 90 minute presentation is a detailed look at the ;   technologies comprising today's Personal, Local, and Wide <   Area Networks (PANs, LANs, and WANs).  We will discuss the=   relevant standards, the current products in this space, and 9   the anticipated future products/technologies which will 8   bring some level of connectivity to each of our mobile<   needs.  Product and service costs will also be provided to6   add a touch of reality to all this great technology.  % Speaker: Randy Mares, Hewlett Packard   :   Randy Mares is a Solution Architect with Hewlett Packard<   Company.  He started working with DEC systems as a college9   senior in 1974 and has never stopped (they were just so 7   good!!!).  He has worked with PDP 8s, PDP 11s, VAXen, 5   Alphas, and all of HP's (formerly Compaq's) current :   generation of Intel products.  Today he provides ongoing:   presales technical support to HP clients in the Northern7   Ohio geography and is the HP counterpart for our WRUG ;   organization.  Randy holds a BS in electrical engineering ;   from Marquette, an MS in Biomedical Engineering from Case 3   Western Reserve, and is an HP OpenVMS Ambassador.    Topic: Access Device Update   8   This 60 minute presentation will cover the current and8   near-future line of iPAQ pocket PCs and its many, many>   options.  In fact, the presentation will be presented via an?   iPAQ device.  Additionally, we will take a broadbrush look at <   the new Tablet PC about to be introduced by HP this fall. =   Product demos will be provided subject to unit availability #   at the time of this presentation.   % Speaker:  Jon Vitale, Hewlett Packard   =   Jon is a Solution Architect working for the Hewlett Packard :   Company in the Greater Cleveland area.  He serves as the7   Access Device specialist in this territory as well as >   providing general support to the full range of products used?   by his high volume financial customers.  Jon comes to HP from =   Compaq, where he holds the solitary honor of the only motor :   vehicle owner in the State of Ohio with a COMPAQ license8   plate.  Oh, and he is THE expert on the iPAQ family of
   pocket PCs.    Date:    Tuesday, August 13, 2002  Time:    3:00 to 6:00 PM  
 Location:    near the Compaq office at    Summit Conference Center   1st floor    Three Summit Park Drive    Independance, Ohio       %   A map to the bottom of the hill is:    http://www.mapquest.com/maps/map.adp/?country=US&address=99+Summit+Park+Drive&city=Independance&state=OH&zipcode=&addtohistory=++ @   The office is at the top of the hill at the end of the street.      Directions: B   From the area of the interchange of I-480 and I-77, go south and    take the Rockside Road exit.   =   At the bottom of the ramp, turn right (west) on Rockside.    :   Go west one block; turn left (south) on Summit Drive.    B   Summit 3 is at the top of the hill on the right (west). Parking *   is on the north side of the building.    ?   The front entrance (on the east side) is on level 2. The rear .   entrance (on the west side) is on level 1.    Future meeting datesN   October 22, 2002 (moved back two weeks due to HPETS-2002) (may be cancelled)@   November 7, 2002 THURSDAY - possible joint meeting with NEORUG&   December 10, 2002 (may be cancelled)   Other announcements:E   The LUG Steering Committee is considering a possible joint meeting  H   with the local HP (Interex) LUG, NEORUG.   Such a joint meeting would @   be on November 7, 2002.  More will be known by our meeting on @   August 13th.  If we have a joint meeting with NEORUG, meetings@   scheduled for October 22nd and December 10th may be cancelled.      Joe H. Gallagher Chairman, WRUG LUG dtrwiz at ix dot netcom dot com    ------------------------------  + Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2002 13:41:00 +0000 (UTC) - From: lewis@spyder.mitre.org (Keith A. Lewis)  Subject: Apache authentication. Message-ID: <ai3glb$gmd$1@newslocal.mitre.org>  J Has anybody ever used suEXEC on VMS?  The documentation says it's only forJ Unix, but VMS supports setuid/setgid so I think for this purpose VMS might! be considered "a flavor of Unix".   I My goal is to run scripts (perl and others) on individual accounts rather  than the APACHE$WWW account.    + --Keith Lewis              klewis$mitre.org > The above may not (yet) represent the opinions of my employer.   ------------------------------  + Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2002 14:15:33 +0000 (UTC)  From: david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk" Subject: Re: Apache authentication+ Message-ID: <ai3im5$iuq$1@aquila.mdx.ac.uk>   ^ In article <ai3glb$gmd$1@newslocal.mitre.org>, lewis@spyder.mitre.org (Keith A. Lewis) writes:K >Has anybody ever used suEXEC on VMS?  The documentation says it's only for K >Unix, but VMS supports setuid/setgid so I think for this purpose VMS might " >be considered "a flavor of Unix". > J >My goal is to run scripts (perl and others) on individual accounts rather >than the APACHE$WWW account.    >   F This is documented as being unsupported in the Compaq Secure WebServerB Version 1.2 for OpenVMS Alpha Installation and Configuration Guide Section 4.7    " 4 suExec not Available for Protecting Script Execution  G The compaq Secure Web server for openVMS does not currently support the K suEXEC method of executing scripts under the username that owns the script. E Many sites like to use this feature to allow execution of arbirtrary, O user-written scripts without the fear of compromising the server's environment.  "   K So sorry it looks like you are out of luck until they release a new version N which supports suEexec (or some equivalent functionality). Other webservers onL VMS (OSU , WASD - and probably purveyor  support functionality equivalent to suEXEC).  
 David Webb VMS and Unix team leader CCSS Middlesex University    , >--Keith Lewis              klewis$mitre.org? >The above may not (yet) represent the opinions of my employer.    ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2002 15:14:15 GMT 5 From: Matthew Doremus <Matthew.Doremus@hp.com.NoSpam> " Subject: Re: Apache authentication, Message-ID: <3D455A3E.9090306@hp.com.NoSpam>  E The CSWS T1.3 kit, which should be available very soon, will contain   support for the suEXEC feature.    Keith A. Lewis wrote:   K >Has anybody ever used suEXEC on VMS?  The documentation says it's only for K >Unix, but VMS supports setuid/setgid so I think for this purpose VMS might " >be considered "a flavor of Unix". > J >My goal is to run scripts (perl and others) on individual accounts rather >than the APACHE$WWW account.    > , >--Keith Lewis              klewis$mitre.org? >The above may not (yet) represent the opinions of my employer.  >    ------------------------------  + Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2002 08:27:48 +0100 (MET) 9 From: Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> ! Subject: Re: building perl on VMS ; Message-ID: <01KKNSEKV5Z69870E1@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>   C > As I've discussed with Phillip, mostly off-list, he had the .zip  I > archive instead of the .tar.gz archive.  The former is for Windows and  8 > has line ending characters that cause problems on VMS.  H Right.  At http://www.perl.com/pub/a/language/info/software.html one is E given the choice between "source for Unix systems stable.tar.gz" and  G "source for Microsoft systems stable.zip".  Immediately after this, it  F says that it compiles out of the box on VMS, but doesn't say which of 6 the above archives (if any) is the proper one for VMS.  F Perl has the reputation of being a portable package.  Making it clear A that the standard distribution is available for other than "Unix  ; systems" and "Microsoft systems" would be a good idea.  :-|    ------------------------------  + Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2002 13:51:00 +0000 (UTC) - From: lewis@spyder.mitre.org (Keith A. Lewis) 2 Subject: Re: controlling telnet / ftp login access. Message-ID: <ai3h84$gmd$2@newslocal.mitre.org>   ccc_crg@yahoo.com (Chris G.) writes in article <5437ff2f.0207280050.424a8a73@posting.google.com> dated 28 Jul 2002 01:50:26 -0700:F >I don't want to be able to Telnet or FTP into the SYSTEM account fromF >the Internet. I tried setting the /NOLOCAL and /NODIALUP flags on theD >SYSTEM account but that does not stop telnet/ftp.  In the end I put >this into the LOGIN.COM :  L Better hope the evil hackers don't use /NOCOM after the username!  (Or maybeF move your code to SYLOGIN.COM.)  There are SYSUAF flags you can set toH force execution of LOGIN.COM, but I wouldn't recommend doing that to the SYSTEM account.   L p.s.  I think telnet sessions would be considered /REMOTE rather than /LOCAL or /DIALUP.   + --Keith Lewis              klewis$mitre.org > The above may not (yet) represent the opinions of my employer.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2002 10:43:50 +0100 U From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <andrew_nospam.harrison_remove_this@sun#.com> ( Subject: Re: Corporate email directories0 Message-ID: <ai32oq$f7a$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   Paul Repacholi wrote:   Y > Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <andrew_nospam.harrison_remove_this@sun#.com> writes:  >  > C >>It depends, Sun for example does not use Exchange at all for some  >>inexplicable reason. >> > E > Why do you say `inexplicable' Andrew? Surley you don't think Sun's  < > mail should be borged into the black-hole pit of Exchange? >  >     6 It was a joke. Choosing Exchange would be inexplicable7 though of course it does generate plenty of work for IT  staff and security consultants.   9 One customer I worked for had just sucessfully "upgraded" 8 from Notes to Exchange in time to get Nimbda followed by# Nimbda Junior, they were overjoyed.   = One of the great advantages of having a non MS mailserver and 9 a non MS mail client is watching people who have followed : this strategy loose their entire mail system and sometimes: their desktop environment for days at a time while you are unaffected.   6 If you add to this not running Office or an MS desktop8 OS and you can click on those nasty Melissa attachements without a care.    Regards  Andrew Harrison    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2002 09:33:32 -0600  From: Kevin Handy <kth@srv.net>  Subject: DS10 problems3 Message-ID: <Eed19.2199$Ue6.508@news.webusenet.com>   1 I'm having problems with a DS10 VMS 7.2-1 system. 8 Remote customers site, no "DEC" field service agrements., Hoping for any ideas on tracing the problem.  7 It's been running fine for over a year, but recently it : has been freezing up (usually sometime at night, but often8 during the day). It sometimes stays up several days at a5 time. No software/hardware has recently been changed.   6 The graphics console seizes up at the same time (mouse: cursor will not move, keyboard unresponsive), but anything5 on the screen remains there.  Nothing logged into the 8 system error logs (just the usual boot, mount, timestamp< messages). Nothing reported in the boot console 'show power' command.  6 Fans, connectors inside seem fine, system looks clean, no funny smells, etc.   8 A printer is pluggen into the "serial console" port, but) nothing is printed on it when it freezes.   9 I need things I can try without needing too much customer 5 work (they will only call me back several hours after 2 having reboted the system, and won't reliably type any commands given).   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2002 17:43:56 GMT 5 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com>  Subject: Re: DS10 problems2 Message-ID: <w9f19.18$VB2.778410@news.cpqcorp.net>  K Shut down the system.  Find a grounding strap.  Open up the box and vaccume I it out well.  Remove all the PCI cards, and reseat them.  Reassemble, and  boot.   D If nothing has changed in how it's used, and what's installed, quiteF frequently it ends up being a poorly seated card that has now vibrated$ loose, as well as dust accumulation.        Kevin Handy wrote in message ...2 >I'm having problems with a DS10 VMS 7.2-1 system.9 >Remote customers site, no "DEC" field service agrements. - >Hoping for any ideas on tracing the problem.t >28 >It's been running fine for over a year, but recently it; >has been freezing up (usually sometime at night, but oftent9 >during the day). It sometimes stays up several days at ae6 >time. No software/hardware has recently been changed. >l7 >The graphics console seizes up at the same time (mouse ; >cursor will not move, keyboard unresponsive), but anythingA6 >on the screen remains there.  Nothing logged into the9 >system error logs (just the usual boot, mount, timestampu= >messages). Nothing reported in the boot console 'show power'c	 >command.m > 7 >Fans, connectors inside seem fine, system looks clean,u >no funny smells, etc. >H9 >A printer is pluggen into the "serial console" port, butn* >nothing is printed on it when it freezes. > : >I need things I can try without needing too much customer6 >work (they will only call me back several hours after3 >having reboted the system, and won't reliably typeT >any commands given).e >i   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2002 12:02:41 -0600" From: Kevin Handy <kth@srv.net>  Subject: Re: DS10 problems4 Message-ID: <vqf19.2235$Ue6.1366@news.webusenet.com>   Fred Kleinsorge wrote:M > Shut down the system.  Find a grounding strap.  Open up the box and vaccumemK > it out well.  Remove all the PCI cards, and reseat them.  Reassemble, and  > boot.  > F > If nothing has changed in how it's used, and what's installed, quiteH > frequently it ends up being a poorly seated card that has now vibrated& > loose, as well as dust accumulation.  A Tried that already. System was fairly clean already, reseated all8E PCI boards and memory, all fans running fine without any extra noise.2  " > Kevin Handy wrote in message ... > 3 >>I'm having problems with a DS10 VMS 7.2-1 system. : >>Remote customers site, no "DEC" field service agrements.. >>Hoping for any ideas on tracing the problem. >>9 >>It's been running fine for over a year, but recently itc< >>has been freezing up (usually sometime at night, but often: >>during the day). It sometimes stays up several days at a7 >>time. No software/hardware has recently been changed.n >>8 >>The graphics console seizes up at the same time (mouse< >>cursor will not move, keyboard unresponsive), but anything7 >>on the screen remains there.  Nothing logged into theo: >>system error logs (just the usual boot, mount, timestamp> >>messages). Nothing reported in the boot console 'show power'
 >>command. >>8 >>Fans, connectors inside seem fine, system looks clean, >>no funny smells, etc.m >>: >>A printer is pluggen into the "serial console" port, but+ >>nothing is printed on it when it freezes.  >>; >>I need things I can try without needing too much customero7 >>work (they will only call me back several hours aftere4 >>having reboted the system, and won't reliably type >>any commands given). >> >  >  >    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2002 09:46:07 -0400s! From: Jim Agnew <jpagnew@vcu.edu>:) Subject: Re: how to delete recursively...,' Message-ID: <3D45471F.E30C05FA@vcu.edu>   E That version is for current versions of vms, right?  which one is fors vms 5.5-2??e  + I'm stuck there because of Ingres 6.4-04...    david20@alpha1.mdx.ac.uk wrote:s > _ > In article <01KKK9394GWI000P5G@tgmail.tg.nsw.gov.au>, paddy.o'brien@zzz.tg.nsw.gov.au writes:r > >John Forkosh wrote: > >-- > >>Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1> wrote:r! > >>: aniruddha patwardhan wrote:K > >>: > 
 > >>: > hiL > >>: > I want to delete a directory structure recursively. I am finding VMS8 > >>: > alternative for rm -rf. How to go about this???? > >> > >>: Look for DELTREE.COM > >>: 3 > >>: http://vms.process.com/fileserv-software.htmlu > >a) > >Or CSWING which is on the Freeware CD.- > >E >  > Or better still use DFUf >  > eg > 2 > DFU DEL/TREE/DIR   device:[dir1.dir2]goodbye.dir > C > This will do it very fast compared to the other methods if any ofe8 > the sub-directories contain gigantic numbers of files. >  > This is available on > < > http://www.openvms.compaq.com/freeware/freeware50/dfu027a/ >  > David Webb > VMS and Unix team leader > CCSS > Middlesex university >  > >U> > >>Or, if goodbye.dir is what you want to delete recursively,: > >>just set def to the directory immediately above it and" > >>   $ delete [.goodbye...]*.*;*E > >>Then if you get any errors trying to delete nonempty directories,iD > >>just up-arrow and do it again (and again) until it runs cleanly. > >>Then, finally, > >>   $ delete goodbye.dir; > >s  > >$ set prot= o:rwed [...]*.dir+ > >$ delete [...]*.*;*,*.*;*,*.*;*, - ! .... > >d; > >The above should have 8 items in total, but I'm lazy :-)  > >aM > >Hmm, now we can go lower, so increase the number of items.  Can DELTREE or 
 > >CSWING? > >a > >Regards, Paddy    ------------------------------  + Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2002 14:16:46 +0000 (UTC)e From: david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk) Subject: Re: how to delete recursively...H+ Message-ID: <ai3ioe$iuq$2@aquila.mdx.ac.uk>   K In article <3D45471F.E30C05FA@vcu.edu>, Jim Agnew <jpagnew@vcu.edu> writes:dF >That version is for current versions of vms, right?  which one is for >vms 5.5-2?? >e  G Looks like you need DFU 2.4 if you want it on VMS 5.5-2. This is on then freeware 4.0 CD available at  9 http://www.openvms.compaq.com/freeware/freeware40/dfu024/e    
 David Webb VMS and Unix team leader CCSS Middlesex University     , >I'm stuck there because of Ingres 6.4-04... >e  >david20@alpha1.mdx.ac.uk wrote: >>  ` >> In article <01KKK9394GWI000P5G@tgmail.tg.nsw.gov.au>, paddy.o'brien@zzz.tg.nsw.gov.au writes: >> >John Forkosh wrote:P >> >. >> >>Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1> wrote:" >> >>: aniruddha patwardhan wrote: >> >>: > >> >>: > hiiM >> >>: > I want to delete a directory structure recursively. I am finding VMSt9 >> >>: > alternative for rm -rf. How to go about this????l >> >>k >> >>: Look for DELTREE.COMr >> >>:4 >> >>: http://vms.process.com/fileserv-software.html >> >* >> >Or CSWING which is on the Freeware CD. >> > >> a >> Or better still use DFU >>   >> egv >>  3 >> DFU DEL/TREE/DIR   device:[dir1.dir2]goodbye.dir  >> sD >> This will do it very fast compared to the other methods if any of9 >> the sub-directories contain gigantic numbers of files.l >> e >> This is available ont >> O= >> http://www.openvms.compaq.com/freeware/freeware50/dfu027a/m >> f
 >> David Webb  >> VMS and Unix team leader  >> CCSS  >> Middlesex universityP >>   >> >? >> >>Or, if goodbye.dir is what you want to delete recursively, ; >> >>just set def to the directory immediately above it and # >> >>   $ delete [.goodbye...]*.*;*hF >> >>Then if you get any errors trying to delete nonempty directories,E >> >>just up-arrow and do it again (and again) until it runs cleanly.  >> >>Then, finally,e >> >>   $ delete goodbye.dir;t >> >! >> >$ set prot= o:rwed [...]*.dire, >> >$ delete [...]*.*;*,*.*;*,*.*;*, - ! ... >> >< >> >The above should have 8 items in total, but I'm lazy :-) >> >N >> >Hmm, now we can go lower, so increase the number of items.  Can DELTREE or >> >CSWING?e >> > >> >Regards, Paddy   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2002 11:17:05 -0400 ! From: Jim Agnew <jpagnew@vcu.edu>r) Subject: Re: how to delete recursively...r' Message-ID: <3D455C71.7D0D56EE@vcu.edu>    Hey, thanks... (publicly)d   jim      david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk wrote:s > M > In article <3D45471F.E30C05FA@vcu.edu>, Jim Agnew <jpagnew@vcu.edu> writes:tH > >That version is for current versions of vms, right?  which one is for > >vms 5.5-2?? > >  > I > Looks like you need DFU 2.4 if you want it on VMS 5.5-2. This is on theH > freeware 4.0 CD available at > ; > http://www.openvms.compaq.com/freeware/freeware40/dfu024/n >  > David Webb > VMS and Unix team leader > CCSS > Middlesex University >  > . > >I'm stuck there because of Ingres 6.4-04... > >y" > >david20@alpha1.mdx.ac.uk wrote: > >>b > >> In article <01KKK9394GWI000P5G@tgmail.tg.nsw.gov.au>, paddy.o'brien@zzz.tg.nsw.gov.au writes: > >> >John Forkosh wrote:U > >> >0 > >> >>Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1> wrote:$ > >> >>: aniruddha patwardhan wrote:
 > >> >>: >
 > >> >>: > hiiO > >> >>: > I want to delete a directory structure recursively. I am finding VMSy; > >> >>: > alternative for rm -rf. How to go about this????s > >> >>V > >> >>: Look for DELTREE.COMo > >> >>:6 > >> >>: http://vms.process.com/fileserv-software.html > >> >, > >> >Or CSWING which is on the Freeware CD. > >> > > >> > >> Or better still use DFU > >> > >> egv > >>5 > >> DFU DEL/TREE/DIR   device:[dir1.dir2]goodbye.dir- > >>F > >> This will do it very fast compared to the other methods if any of; > >> the sub-directories contain gigantic numbers of files.i > >> > >> This is available oni > >>? > >> http://www.openvms.compaq.com/freeware/freeware50/dfu027a/s > >> > >> David WebbA > >> VMS and Unix team leadere	 > >> CCSSE > >> Middlesex universityi > >> > >> >A > >> >>Or, if goodbye.dir is what you want to delete recursively, = > >> >>just set def to the directory immediately above it and % > >> >>   $ delete [.goodbye...]*.*;*)H > >> >>Then if you get any errors trying to delete nonempty directories,G > >> >>just up-arrow and do it again (and again) until it runs cleanly.s > >> >>Then, finally,h > >> >>   $ delete goodbye.dir;G > >> ># > >> >$ set prot= o:rwed [...]*.dire. > >> >$ delete [...]*.*;*,*.*;*,*.*;*, - ! ... > >> >> > >> >The above should have 8 items in total, but I'm lazy :-) > >> >P > >> >Hmm, now we can go lower, so increase the number of items.  Can DELTREE or
 > >> >CSWING?o > >> > > >> >Regards, Paddy   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2002 07:51:27 -0400r' From: "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@hp.com>u  Subject: RE: HSG80 RAID5 WarningT Message-ID: <BE56C50EA024184DAF48F0B9A47F5CF40266089E@kaoexc01.americas.cpqcorp.net>   Rob,  F If I recall correctly, this was an issue fixed in V8.6-10 (not sure of" availability) of the ACS software.  F Also fixed in V8.7 of ACS which includes the fixes of previous version up to and including V8.6-10.  G Reference: (again, not sure of actual availability, so check with local- HP Storage folks) B http://www.compaq.com/products/quickspecs/10917_div/10917_div.html   Regardsh    
 Kerry Main Senior Consultant  Hewlett-Packard Canada! Consulting & Integration Services> Voice: 613-592-4660, Fax   : 613-591-4477 Email: Kerry.Main@hp.com     -----Original Message-----I From: rob.buxton@wcc.spam.govt.nz [mailto:rob.buxton@wcc.spam.govt.nz]=20T Sent: July 28, 2002 9:02 PMl To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Como Subject: HSG80 RAID5 Warning    	 Hi Folks,   F Actually got hit by the following on our SAN Connected to our NT BoxesF but I believe the same issue will be OS Independent and I'm sure there, may be a few folk out there that use HSG80s.  F If you're running an HSG80s based SAN, with RAID5 Arrays created underE ACS8.5 (or possibly earlier) and you've upgraded to ACS8.6 and you've0D got Save Configuration on the RaidSet and you're running the largest8 Disks available, then you'll have the following problem.  = If a member of your RAID5 Set fails then you cannot get it tov Reconstruct.  F The size of the Save Configuration Data increased from 8.5 to 8.6. So,D if a Disk in your 8.5 RaidSet fails then the SpareSet or replacement@ disk is first evaluated for the Save Configuration Space. It nowF reserves the new larger amount but then considers the remaining volume8 too small for the existing RAID5 Set and doesn't use it.  E If you're not running the largest disks available then using a larger ( disk will get you around the problem.=20H Otherwise, you should consider re-initialising the RAID Set without Save Configuration.   Rob.   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2002 12:31:53 GMTt1 From: "Kari Keronen" <kari.keronen@radiolinja.fi>m  Subject: Re: HSG80 RAID5 Warning3 Message-ID: <ZAa19.3928$EL6.44858@news.kpnqwest.fi>-  < "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote in message! news:3D44AC9D.9688C83F@fsi.net...u$ > rob.buxton@wcc.spam.govt.nz wrote: > >c
 > > Hi Folks,D > >3J > > Actually got hit by the following on our SAN Connected to our NT BoxesJ > > but I believe the same issue will be OS Independent and I'm sure there0 > > may be a few folk out there that use HSG80s. > > J > > If you're running an HSG80s based SAN, with RAID5 Arrays created underI > > ACS8.5 (or possibly earlier) and you've upgraded to ACS8.6 and you've.H > > got Save Configuration on the RaidSet and you're running the largest< > > Disks available, then you'll have the following problem. > >eA > > If a member of your RAID5 Set fails then you cannot get it toc > > Reconstruct. > > J > > The size of the Save Configuration Data increased from 8.5 to 8.6. So,H > > if a Disk in your 8.5 RaidSet fails then the SpareSet or replacementD > > disk is first evaluated for the Save Configuration Space. It nowJ > > reserves the new larger amount but then considers the remaining volume< > > too small for the existing RAID5 Set and doesn't use it. > >UI > > If you're not running the largest disks available then using a larger:) > > disk will get you around the problem.aG > > Otherwise, you should consider re-initialising the RAID Set withoutH > > Save Configuration.  >dH > AFAIK, Save Configuration is not recommended for dual-redundant pairs,	 > either.m  8 Actually it is not only "not recomended" but prohibited.- From the Installaton and Configuration Guide: G "The SAVE CONFIGURATION switch is for a single-controller configurationb only."   -Kari- >a > -- > David J. Dachteraj > dba DJE Systemsn > http://www.djesys.com/ >u* > Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page:! > http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/t   ------------------------------    Date: 29 Jul 2002 09:50:01 -0600+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young)f, Subject: Re: HSV , Snaps and older databases3 Message-ID: <8sFiVkxZxnV8@eisner.encompasserve.org>m  a In article <60u3kugnppko0tnmkaf20o318igbkck2m1@4ax.com>, jlsue <jlsuexxxz@screaminet.com> writes: F > On 25 Jul 2002 00:10:53 -0600, young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) > wrote: > c >>In article <v6iujugfjv0vmm80v5ln0f75hb2dms6l4s@4ax.com>, jlsue <jlsuexxxz@screaminet.com> writes:o >  >>> D >>> I don't think you understand the answers you're getting to theseF >>> questions.  You can do batch-job oriented snapshots from VMS usingH >>> SSSU.  It is supported, but not all HSV features may be available inB >>> the V1.0 of the scripting utility.  For example, when creatingH >>> shapshots there are some GUI-based options that are not available toH >>> the CLI.  However, it *does* make the snapshots, as I've implemented >>> for some customers.e >>>  >>E >>	Wait a second... is this some kind of comprehension test?  Earlier 
 >>	you wrote:. >> >>>iD >>>You can write host-based scripts using SSSU, but in spite of whatH >>>Andrew's been trying to imply, I don't necessarily recommend it since7 >>>HP can't support all of the issues that may come up.i >>>n >  >>5 >>	So now you do recommend it?  And issues "that may	rB >>	come up" - and HP can't support - are of no consequence?  Okay. >> >>	[snip...] >>C >>	Yeah.  I understand how it works and I understand what you meants7 >>	at the outset.  Just didn't realize this unsupportedp6 >>	method was the way to go.  Sorry for my? confusion. >> > F > You're right, I did say I don't recomment it...  I made the originalF > statement because it  depends on your expectations and needs.  ThereH > are some areas where it's not clear how it might interface with backupE > packages (e.g., Veritas) using dedicated backup servers... i.e., no B > automated, built-in knowledge that it is a snapshot from another	 > system.e > B > It's also not qualified as part of an EBS, and therefore gettingC > vendors to support it may be difficult.  But that doesn't mean itt > doesn't work.l > D > However, if what you want is simply to create a snapshot for usingF > VMS' Backup,  it works fine.  But it doesn't give you the option forD > "allocation as needed" snapshots in SSSU V1.0 (i.e., you've got toH > have enough spare capacity to handle the complete storage needs of all > simultaneous snapshots). >   0 	Thanks , that explanation above is very useful.   >  >>>  >>B >>	Fine.  Let me push hard in a direction you may want to consider@ >>	going.  Get mini-merge incorporated into HSV.  Here are three >>	major reasons.  >>. >>			1)  Can use Volume Shadowing comfortably.' >>			2)  Because of 1) Ease of support.o0 >>			3)  Because of 1) Double read IO throughput > G > Because of the way that HSV and Vraid-x works, #1 isn't all that huge,H > a need now, other than it being a comfort-zone for folks - like myselfB > - who have relied on it with much success over the years.  And IA > really don't think #2 is any big issue.  I don't see how volumew3 > shadowing is more easy to support than snapshots.e >   > 	Simple.  A Quick perusal of the SSSU docs show there are someC 	arcane scripting (arcane in the sense that we don't know it yet...n# 	plus it has "slashes" in it. ;-) )n    F > You really don't need #3, because internally Vraid-1 is very similarH > to Raid 1+0.  If you create a 100GB Vraid-1, and you have 50 drives inG > the group, it spreads the I/O over all 50 drives, taking care to keepaE > the "mirrored" bits on separate drives in the group.  The HSV takes E > care of all I/O optimizations and I really don't think the previouseE > benefits of host-based VS within the same HSV has the same benefitsuB > anymore - especially when considering the overhead to manage the > shadowsets on the host.t >   > 	Sure.  But those VRaids are in the same HSV cabinet... and if? 	that cabinet becomes wedged... I prefer to have storage in use ? 	in two different rooms, preferably far enough apart to opt outl 	of painful DR testing ;-)   >  >> >>	Ease of support:i >> >>	$ quisce database >>	$ dismount volumesm >>	$ unquisce database >>	$ next_backup:t' >>	$ if no more to do then goto get_outa >>	$ mount dismounted volume' >>	$ backup dismounted volume to_targeto >>	$ add back to shadow seti >>	$ goto next_backup  >> > > > Snapshots vs volume shadowing are just two different ways toF > accomplish a goal.   Because of the way that Vraid-x is implemented,@ > though, it doesn't seem to be worth the extra overhead to haveG > host-based volume shadowing to accomplish the goal.  YMMV, of course.a    @ 	Wait a second.  I spent considerable email pain and many hours H 	debating a competitor when their angle was "volume shadowing overhead."F 	I admit there must be some CPU overhead, but certainly not enough to G 	worry about.  Let me qualify that... if your read/write ratio is 85/15oC 	volume shadowing is round robining on the reads (hardly a big loadmB 	I would say) and doubling the writes, there is your CPU overhead.  D 	So if there is a noticeable impact with volume shadowing, let's seeA 	some empirical evidence.  Your competitor had none when I calledn
 	their bluff.o  ? 	Also, while admittedly there is CPU overhead the PROS outweigha
 	the CONS:  3 http://vmsone.com/dfwdays/Presentations/Allison.pptv  D 	Asymmetric access, manual failover rank high in CONS for multi-siteD 	clusters.  CPU overhead and merging (until mini-merge for HSG comes 	along, is it here yet?)  F 	Secondly, fast_path for fibre channel and 7.3 streamlining of IOLOCK82 	means we get more IO throughput at no extra cost.  F 	All that to say, until DRM II comes along, HBVS is still the strongerD 	solution at the risk of merging during prime-time which for several? 	very heavy IO multi-site users means HSV stays in the planningo 	stages.  ? > Also, if you want multi-site volume shadowing, then of courserC > host-based volume shadowing is the way to go (today).  Mini-mergee$ > doesn't help in that case, though.  @ 	Sure it does.  Just not with HSV equipment.  Catch of course isF 	you are MSCP serving HSJ based volumes and of course have /READ_COST	C 	appropriately set so you aren't going off-site for reads.  E-tradee 	was/is an example of that.t   >>G >>	With Volume Shadowing the shadow members are in separate datacenterseC >>	and act as read targets providing at least double IO throughput.fD >>	Granted, with HSV you are spread across many drives this isn't asF >>	big of an issue.  Also, with DRM II the synchronous lockstep volumeD >>	will service reads if supported at an OS level.  I'll add anotherF >>	feature that will compete nicely with Snaps.  With Volume ShadowingA >>	I can have multiple bitmaps, 6 of them per volume.  Rolling myeD >>	own BCVs, I could easily create a script that does something like >>	this: >> >>		$ !n >>		$ !  10 A.M. snapshoto >>		$ ! 3 >>		$ dismount/policy=minicopy=optional  $1$DQB101:r? >>		$ MOUNT DSA5/SHAD=$1$DQB102:/POLICY=MINICOPY=OPTIONAL SHAD5  >>		$ !s >>		$ !  12 P.M. snapshot  >>		$ !t3 >>		$ dismount/policy=minicopy=optional  $1$DQB102:e? >>		$ MOUNT DSA5/SHAD=$1$DQB101:/POLICY=MINICOPY=OPTIONAL SHAD5o >> >>	etc.o >>0 >>	Is that type functionality easy to do in EVM? > H > On HSG EVM allows something like this to be done as well (breaking off > mirrors).u > H > On HSV, where we don't have EVM, I've written scripts that quiesce the5 > app, create a snapclone, and then resume the app.  q  ) 	This is what many of us will have to do.0   > If you don't care H > about quiescing, then just take the snapclone.  This is basically what? > your rolling BCV idea does.  The snapclone takes a very quick D > snapshot, which is usable immediately.  In the background it makes > that snapshot into a clone.v >   & 	I see that and that is the way to go.   >>C >>	Note it doesn't matter that those aren't consistent copies.  TheIC >>	scenario is database corruption.  When that occurs, roll-forwardcE >>	roll-back transaction logs on to last good snapshot.  Much of thisuB >>	is overkill in my book.  Some of us have been running many many% >>	years without database corruption.7 > G > Um... well, you *know* that we can't recommend that ... but <whisper>>H > I've run with online backups for years with no corruption, even on the > system disk </whisper>.   C 	Who hasn't.  Management would have your head if you took a monthlyr; 	downtime just to get a consistent copy of the system disk.l   >>C >>	Hey, maybe I'm swimming against technology change here.  Tell usrC >>	how EVM will work in this scenario (assume it is shipping).  How1G >>	does it interact with VMS database products that need to be quiescedh >>	prior to snap?f >> > H > Well, EVM is not running on VMS for me yet (I've gotten no pre-releaseH > versions... haven't even been home in order to play with it if I did).B > On Windows systems, the EVM job can run a host-based scripts (to@ > quiesce the app, whatever), and then has automated methods for7 > creating/splitting mirrors or for creating snapshots.  > G > Again, the EVA/HSV is quite a bit different from the HSx controllers,;. > so I can't say how these will work with EVM.    E 	I am attempting to get a firm grip on how to go about this.  I don'tuC 	want to do it twice.  Unfortunately, it isn't clear.  EVM seems toeA 	add another wrinkle but may be the way to go if EVM would run on]4 	the HOST performing the backup.  Having an external> 	box running a script performing a SnapClone and then running F 	a script on the host that is performing the backup, is one more thingB 	to troubleshoot and/or break if you want your backups host based.  : 	That said, for other folks this is the goodness (many mayE 	not be comfortable with this yet).  But this is ideal for serverless3G 	backup whereby external EVM box quiesces app, takes SnapClone, resumesiF 	app and Backup server later sweeps up SnapClones.  Zero IO impact to G 	VMS host as no VMS host has to perform backup.  I'm quite content withvD 	that (if management wants it), even running VMS script from Windows! 	(and living with slight risk)* !w   					Rob  M *  It's just a backup.  Backups fail on occasion, just like network segments sO    fail.  I've had 2 backup failures in 10 months, all external causes.  Every eL    place I've been has had backup failures (even very well run shops).  This,    may not be acceptable for your situation.   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2002 07:34:24 GMTu* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>4 Subject: Re: Itanic2 - the cHumPaq spin continues...C Message-ID: <4e619.336738$iX5.16962363@bin3.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>   @ "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> wrote in message* news:Mm119.6$yO.124022@news.cpqcorp.net...K > Come on.  When a guy starts his comments by comparing the cancelling of a:C > CPU chip to an abortion, and a debate about which trimester... hee	 certainlyrH > isn't interested in any answer that doesn't agree with his world view.  K Hmmm.  When a guy starts his post by mis-attributing such a comment, eithereG he's just plain incompetent or isn't much interested in the truth:  theeL 'abortion' comment was what I responded to, not what I initiated.  Sure hopeA your code is better than your prose and/or reading comprehension.:   ...p  L > Compaq (RIP) could have decided to continue to invest in EV8, while behindJ > the scenes planning to move to Itanium and abandon Alpha.  IMHO they did the> > more honest thing.  F If so, I also hope your code is better than your ethics.  Calling whatI Compaq did in any way 'honest' requires an entirely new definition of the>J term:  they lied (vigorously) about Alpha's planned future right up to theF moment they publicly cancelled Alpha development, they then lied aboutG Alpha's potential for future performance compared with Itanic, and lied G about Alpha's profitability (even without considering its significantly J greater potential profitability had they made any attempt to sell it), andL lied about the supposed engineering impetus behind the cancellation decisionJ (though eventually had to admit that it was not in fact the chip engineers behind it).   I The *honest* approach would have been to tell their customers they reallymH wanted to get out of the processor business (never mind why) and ask forA help in finding a way to do so that would be acceptable given thecK commitments (very real, public, explicit, repeated, and solemn commitments) + they had previously made to Alpha's future.   I The *competent* approach would have been to run with Alpha for all it was.J worth, as Pfeiffer appeared to want to do and actually began to take stepsG to do.  Or at worst (if you factor in this compulsion to get out of the/E processor business) to take the 'honest' approach described above but-H continue development through EV8 while doing so, because the incrementalJ cost of completing EV8 development (given that its server architecture wasJ the same as EV7's) was minimal compared with the sales losses that the wayA they *did* handle things entailed and also as a hedge against thecI possibility that Itanic really wasn't quite the wondrous beastie that was I claimed (given that multiple other vendors such as HP and SGI had alreadyOJ been burned by overly-rosy Itanic predictions, failure to hedge seems even4 more incompetent than it might otherwise have been).  I So calling them both liars and incompetents is in no way a stretch:  it'sC9 transparently clear to any reasonably objective observer.    ...r  K > The only regret I have is that we didn't start the port to IA64 a year or  soE > earlier... because we could be selling VMS on those < $5k Itanium 2. > workstations today.e  J As opposed to those ridiculously-overpriced $6K DS10s.  And what does thatJ even cheaper Alpha that VMS doesn't support sell for?  I'm reasonably sure@ the port to it would have been easier than the port to Itanic...   - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2002 09:50:55 +0100n% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net> 4 Subject: Re: Itanic2 - the cHumPaq spin continues...8 Message-ID: <g5v9ku06a15tommf4j1qkencbj5urg7ul3@4ax.com>  3 On Mon, 29 Jul 2002 02:02:20 GMT, "Fred Kleinsorge"g$ <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> wrote:  K >Compaq (RIP) could have decided to continue to invest in EV8, while behindiM >the scenes planning to move to Itanium and abandon Alpha.  IMHO they did the3K >more honest thing.  They told people of their decision as soon as they hadt   Fred,n  D I've previously posted email from senior Compaq Alpha/VMS managementD assuring me that "there was no question about Compaq's commitment toB Alpha" dated just a week or so before the Alphacide. Add to this aF Compaq manager standing up in front of a group of customers just a fewA weeks prior to the announcement and saying "I won't bore you with0B details about EV8 except to say that it is fully funded. There wasD some doubt about that but I can say it is *fully funded*. The person; responsible has since told me he was aware of the impending ? announcement but could not tell anyone at the time he made that  statement.  Was that honest?     > M >The only regret I have is that we didn't start the port to IA64 a year or sonD >earlier... because we could be selling VMS on those < $5k Itanium 2 >workstations today.  D Well I agree entirely and first posted that this *must* happen afterF the announcement that Alpha/NT was to be dropped. Alpha/NT was droppedD just after we were absolutely assured that Alpha/NT was strategic to, Compaq. Starting to see a pattern here Fred?  D Here's what I said at the time. I make no apologies for its tone. ItB is also interesting to read the replies. Terry Shannon immediately? replied that a port to Itanium would never happen unless CompaqdE open-sourced VMS, Several others replied that VMS and Itanium were sor> profitable on Alpha that they easily funded Alpha development.   Search Result 8 % From: Alan Greig (agreig@my-deja.com) 7 Subject: VMS must be ported to Intel or die with Alpha   Newsgroups: comp.os.vms 6 View: Complete Thread (63 articles) | Original Format  Date: 1999/08/27 e  .  B Well this is the end for VMS unless Compaq announce publically and> immediately that VMS will be ported to Intel. Who can have any confidence in the future now.   D Compaq are completely and utterly fucked up. No polite way of sayingD it. Compaq have spent a fortune in the UK over the last year runningF print and radio ads plugging NT on Alpha without one single mention ofE VMS. Just this week expensive double page Alpha ads have been runningc9 under the slogan "Shouldn't you be in bed with us too?" -u" translation "Get fucked by Compaq"  B And please, please don't tell me that Compaq have made re-assuringD statements and will use Alphas in Tandem. Any statements from Compaq9 regarding future Alpha plans are worth absoloutely zilch.   @ And what about the bilions in revenue that VMS brings in? Simple CompaqD will piss it away. Is that insane? Probably but sanity does not rule' the computing world. Don't forget that.s  F Anyone planning on new developments that rely on Alpha processors mustC need their head examined or be just dying (literally) to catch someiD terminal disease by getting into bed with Compaq. Unfortunately that? includes me because I've bought Compaq Alpha equipment into theS companyn= in the last year and am just about to spend a lot more. But Is	 guaranteemC you this will be the last time I purchase anything from Compaq if IiD have a choice. The systems I am about to buy will likely be the lastC new VMS systems I ever put in anywhere unless Compaq write in blood   that they will port VMS to IA64.  B I posted a few months ago "I think Alpha is dying and Compaq knows it".5 Anyone out there still want to argue with me on that?h   As another sig reads.y   Rest In Peace VMS.   --
 Alan Greig         >o > = >"David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote in messagee" >news:3D42CEC5.326CD70A@fsi.net... >> Fred Kleinsorge wrote:w >> >A >> > "Brannon Batson" <Brannon_Batson@yahoo.com> wrote in message ; >> > news:4495ef1f.0207262230.b5c61b3@posting.google.com...a< >> > > "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote in messageD >> > news:<FXg09.297878$iB1.15267619@bin4.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>... >> > > > [snip]dI >> > > > BTW, at best the abortion occurred in the 2nd trimester, not theo >first,  >> > letK >> > > > alone 'early in the first'.  The only question is just how late int >the	 >> > 2nd.  >> > > > >> > > > - billi >> > >L >> > > I honestly don't know why people care about what the schedule was forL >> > > EV8.  EV8 had lots of schedules--schedules are constantly reworked toK >> > > reflect manufacturing timelines, resource allocations, etc.  EV8 was M >> > > pretty far along as a design in mid-2001 (when work stopped).  At that>M >> > > point, for a number of reasons, an '04 ship seemed realistic.  There'ssJ >> > > a lot of things that can make a chip slip though, so there's always >> > > big error bars on that. >> > > >> >L >> > Apparently because Bill doesn't have much better to do than continue toI >> > rehash the Alpha story.  Whenever the topic dies out, he'll trot outf >anotherI >> > tome.  In Bill's mind, EV8 has reached mythic proportions.  It wouldA >have K >> > arrived ahead of schedule, would have set every benchmark record, sold I >> > millions, and solved world hunger.  Bill will, no doubt have his ownf >unique  >> > spin on things. >> >G >> > Given the current EV7 schedule, I have my doubts if EV8 would have  >shipped >> > in 2004, but who knows. >> >> Fred, >>F >> I know we've had words here, also. So, I must be honest: you'd haveE >> garnered more credibility (does that word hold value for you?) foreK >> yourself had you addressed Bill's comments about trust and trust broken.n >>H >> By taking the easy way out, you have damaged your image in my eyes. IK >> realize that may not be of much value to you, but if a moron like me cantH >> make such a simple connection, imagine what the intelligentsia may be >> thinking... >> >> --e >> David J. Dachtera >> dba DJE Systems >> http://www.djesys.com/h >>+ >> Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page:e" >> http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/ >    -- Alan   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2002 16:26:15 GMTR5 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com>q4 Subject: Re: Itanic2 - the cHumPaq spin continues...2 Message-ID: <H0e19.16$oy2.609326@news.cpqcorp.net>   Alan Greig wrote in message ...o   >Add to this aG >Compaq manager standing up in front of a group of customers just a fewgB >weeks prior to the announcement and saying "I won't bore you withC >details about EV8 except to say that it is fully funded. There wasVE >some doubt about that but I can say it is *fully funded*. The person < >responsible has since told me he was aware of the impending@ >announcement but could not tell anyone at the time he made that >statement.  Was that honest?  >d  L No.  I don't think it was honest, nor do I condone it.  Even if whoever thatG manager is (and you don't include the name, so I don't know who it was)oG doesn't like that opinion.  It is one thing to make a statement such ashI that, when you do not know it to be false.  It is quite another to make anI truly false statement.  He would have been better off to have avoided theiH question entirely, or indicated that he could not give details about EV8 futures at that time.n  H I stood up at a meeting in DC several months before the announcement andI made the same type of declaration - "VMS will never be ported", and AlphaiJ forever.  I was acting on the best information I had at the time - even ifJ some executives someplace else had already made the decision otherwise.  IK would never have made that statement, had I known - even in confidence - ofd the change.n   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2002 18:25:37 +0200tE From: Jan C. =?iso-8859-1?Q?Vorbr=FCggen?= <jvorbrueggen@mediasec.de>t4 Subject: Re: Itanic2 - the cHumPaq spin continues...+ Message-ID: <3D456C81.ECA18E96@mediasec.de>n  K > But it was for all intents and purposes killed in the same way.  Chip and E > platform work wound down.  Minor platform work was done to keep VAX N > customers in hardware.  But no new major work was done on VAX (and certainlyF > no new architectural work) after the Alpha work started in earnest.   M 'scuse me? I remember seeing - either in one, or in closely related in time -nK issue(s) of the Digital Technical Journal a description of both the NVAX(+)>= and the 21064. They used the same fab process, came to marketeM contemporaneously and ISTR used the same development tools. A chip with a new> microarchitecturey: is "minor platform work" and "no new architectural work"?    	Jan   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2002 16:16:26 GMT 5 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com>u4 Subject: Re: Itanic2 - the cHumPaq spin continues...2 Message-ID: <uTd19.15$jz2.642165@news.cpqcorp.net>  A David J. Dachtera wrote in message <3D44B132.C7A5DD5A@fsi.net>...  >Fred Kleinsorge wrote: 	 >> [snip]>F >> Compaq (RIP) could have decided to continue to invest in EV8, while behind< >> the scenes planning to move to Itanium and abandon Alpha. >II >That would have more closely paralleled the VAX to Alpha transition and,	D >IMHO, would have been the better, more profitable course. It likely7 >would not have met Carly's demands, this I understand.o >>  I I don't really agree here.  Once Alpha development truly kicked off, onlyoE the VAX chip and platform work still in progress and minor knock offs J continued.  VAX sales continued to decline.  The same type of FUD was usedL against moving to Alpha.  A year ago the decision was announced.  Alpha chipK and platform development continues, just not new architectural development. J Those Alpha platforms will be available for a while, just like VAXes were.K And I suspect that if there are business reasons, they will spin additionale knockoff EV7 and EV6 systems.a  K While you want to draw Carly into this as a conspiritor - Mike Capellas wastJ the CEO who made the decision.  Just as Bob Palmer made decisions that youF would want to attribute to Bill Gates.  Some people still believe thatI aliens landed at Roswell too, and that the pyramids were built by aliens. G But even if HP was somehow part of the motivation, which I do not agrees' with, it still makes little difference.o   >> IMHO they did the >> more honest thing.r > H >An old saying has it, "The road to hell is paved with good intentions".I >In this case, tact may have been the more beneficial approach, for OVMS, G >the customer base and ultimately the Q and their successors (HP, ...).s >   J Can you allow room for disagreement?  You may not agree with the approach,H but can you agree that reasonable people could take the approach withoutI conspiracies, bad intentions, or incompetence?  Many customers who I have F talked to, or heard the feedback from - are satisfied with what we are3 doing, where we are heading, and were not offended.v  9 >> They told people of their decision as soon as they hads1 >> reached the agreements needed to move to IA64.( > @ >I'd still assert that the matter was mishandled. When Alpha wasH >announced, VAX wasn't "killed" outright. I understand the circumstancesF >were different. The damage done this time may be irreversible, unlessA >there is a major marketing push to raise VMS's visibility in the  >mainstream. >t  I But it was for all intents and purposes killed in the same way.  Chip andeC platform work wound down.  Minor platform work was done to keep VAXEL customers in hardware.  But no new major work was done on VAX (and certainlyG no new architectural work) after the Alpha work started in earnest.  IfeJ there was a difference at all, it is that we are starting with an existingJ chip, and platforms - and don't have the extra slop time we had then to do8 the SW development as the HW development was being done.   >> They gave Alpha users a >> transitional roadmap. >r@ >...after having previously given roadmaps, assurances, and yes,D >commitments to the Alpha customer base about the future of Alpha. IA >believe the phrase, "Bet Your Business" was used more than once.t >   G Situations change.  What was the right decision yesterday, isn't always H right today.  It's not clear to me given how big the change was, and theF negotiations that were taking place - how the decision could have beenC communicated that would have made everyone happy.  We use "Bet yourIF business: when we talk about VMS - it doesn't matter what the hardwareJ platform is.  The HW isn't important as long as it is fast enough for your" needs, and priced for your budget.   >> They didn't cancel VMS. >eH >...yet. Unless something happens on IPF, and damned fast, the o.s. withH >no hardware platform will simply evaporate. Everyone from Carly on down6 >better get *REAL* clear on that! ...*REAL* damn fast! >e  L You are listening to the people who have an axe to grind predict the doom ofD a real chip, with real numbers, that you can purchase today, that isI competetive in the 64-bit space with Sun.  Against a chip that has yet tonL deliver, yet to find a system vendor to build enterprise systems, and from aL company that is and will continue to be battered on the front where it makes! it's real money - the IA32 space.r  J The Optitron (or whatever Hammer is now called) is likely - if it ships onG time and with performance near the estimated performance - to be a IA32iK competetor, but how much penetration it makes into the 64-bit space has yet8F to be seen - perhaps if Sun ditches Sparc for Hammer...  maybe.  GivenL Intels IA32 performance, it's also a question if Hammer will live up to it'sH hype on IA32 performance.  How much trouble AMD will be in by next year,E given Intels performance and pricing of IA32 is also a good question.s  H But Itanium-2 is here *today*.  It has the *infrastructure* work done toJ support enterprise systems, while x86-64 will probably start out life as aI BIOS based PC clone.  While the x86-64 strategy might interest Microsoft,eC will the IA32 emulation performance drive the Linux or UNIX market?l  E Do customers running applications on VMS or UNIX care about it's IA32nH performance?  Do they care about the ISA (EPIC versus x86-64)?  Yes, theE WINDOWS people do.  But Linux is the fastest growing OS in the serverh market.*  L >> The only regret I have is that we didn't start the port to IA64 a year or soF >> earlier... because we could be selling VMS on those < $5k Itanium 2 >> workstations today. >aG >You could be selling VMS on everything from <$600 desktops to <$15,000 E >enterprise servers now, if you get right down to it ... oh, yeah - I < >forgot - I'm the only one who understands that. Oh, well... >aG >These are *MY* opinions and it is not likely that I will be swayed anytG >more than you, Bill, or anyone else. So, let's just agree to disagree.t >tF >You're an intelligent man and a remarkable engineer. I was not giftedG >with high, measurable intelligence, but I get along as best I can in ac% >world that I must struggle to grasp.p >tF >We are different, and our opinions are different. That's part of whatE >life is all about. So, let's accept our differences and move on, 'K?e >i  L I'm with you on this.  Lets agree to disagree and move forward.  We play theH hand we have, and try to do the best with it.  Try to influence *future*9 plans and events, and not endlessly replay the what-if's.o  E Heck, if *I* could go back in time and changed things, DEC would have I purchased/merged with Apple in the early 80's.  We would never have builttK the Pro300, or the Rainbow.  I would convince Ken how to tell the good guystK around him from the bad guys.  I would have made some subtle changes in theeK original VAX ISA that would have made it easier to build faster VAXes.  And L would have made damn sure that Dave Cutler didn't go to MS, and that we wereL not afraid to canabalize the VMS base to get to the "next generation" of VMSJ *and* UNIX without the VAX baggage.  I would have dropped the price of theJ VS2000 to just barely make a profit, and VMS prices for the low-end so lowI that Sun would have been stillborn in the technical workstation space.  IgJ would have let the $4b+ cash on hand carry us through the rough times, and- not laid off, crippled, and decorporated DEC.    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2002 13:39:05 -0400d' From: "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@hp.com>e4 Subject: RE: Itanic2 - the cHumPaq spin continues...T Message-ID: <BE56C50EA024184DAF48F0B9A47F5CF4026608A2@kaoexc01.americas.cpqcorp.net>   Fred,i  ; >>> While the x86-64 strategy might interest Microsoft, <<<   D A more interesting question might be "who will do the actual porting7 work to support a non-Intel platform with MS software?"p  F If previous experience is any indication (MIPS, PowerPC and Alpha), itF is the HW vendor that will have to incur not only the software portingA (e.g. 64bit stuff) expenses of any new full and point releases ofoH NT/W2K, but also its ongoing support while OS and other related softwareA revenues go to MS. That vendor will also likely have to pay MS toh/ officially support products like Office etc.=20a  H Note - while it might run ok in 32bit mode, "official support" is likelyB going to be another matter as that is what large companies will be asking.t  F Granted, perhaps MS will adopt another model going forward than it has0 in the past, but these are certainly big issues.   Regards   
 Kerry Main Senior Consultantn Hewlett-Packard Canada! Consulting & Integration Servicese Voice: 613-592-4660t Fax   : 613-591-4477 Email: Kerry.Main@hp.com     -----Original Message-----= From: Fred Kleinsorge [mailto:kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com]=20e Sent: July 29, 2002 12:16 PM To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comg4 Subject: Re: Itanic2 - the cHumPaq spin continues...    A David J. Dachtera wrote in message <3D44B132.C7A5DD5A@fsi.net>...d >Fred Kleinsorge wrote:a	 >> [snip]uF >> Compaq (RIP) could have decided to continue to invest in EV8, while behind< >> the scenes planning to move to Itanium and abandon Alpha. > G >That would have more closely paralleled the VAX to Alpha transition=20IE >and, IMHO, would have been the better, more profitable course. It=20a> >likely would not have met Carly's demands, this I understand. >t  D I don't really agree here.  Once Alpha development truly kicked off,E only the VAX chip and platform work still in progress and minor knock F offs continued.  VAX sales continued to decline.  The same type of FUD> was used against moving to Alpha.  A year ago the decision wasG announced.  Alpha chip and platform development continues, just not newsH architectural development. Those Alpha platforms will be available for aE while, just like VAXes were. And I suspect that if there are business @ reasons, they will spin additional knockoff EV7 and EV6 systems.  G While you want to draw Carly into this as a conspiritor - Mike CapellasiE was the CEO who made the decision.  Just as Bob Palmer made decisionswB that you would want to attribute to Bill Gates.  Some people stillE believe that aliens landed at Roswell too, and that the pyramids wereoC built by aliens. But even if HP was somehow part of the motivation,t< which I do not agree with, it still makes little difference.   >> IMHO they did the >> more honest thing.j > H >An old saying has it, "The road to hell is paved with good intentions".  F >In this case, tact may have been the more beneficial approach, for=20J >OVMS, the customer base and ultimately the Q and their successors (HP,=20 >...). >   @ Can you allow room for disagreement?  You may not agree with theA approach, but can you agree that reasonable people could take thewE approach without conspiracies, bad intentions, or incompetence?  Manyo@ customers who I have talked to, or heard the feedback from - areD satisfied with what we are doing, where we are heading, and were not	 offended.e  H >> They told people of their decision as soon as they had reached the=20% >> agreements needed to move to IA64.o > C >I'd still assert that the matter was mishandled. When Alpha was=20wH >announced, VAX wasn't "killed" outright. I understand the circumstances  I >were different. The damage done this time may be irreversible, unless=20fD >there is a major marketing push to raise VMS's visibility in the=20 >mainstream. >   E But it was for all intents and purposes killed in the same way.  ChipaG and platform work wound down.  Minor platform work was done to keep VAXeB customers in hardware.  But no new major work was done on VAX (andD certainly no new architectural work) after the Alpha work started inF earnest.  If there was a difference at all, it is that we are startingD with an existing chip, and platforms - and don't have the extra slopC time we had then to do the SW development as the HW development wasr being done.c   >> They gave Alpha users a >> transitional roadmap. >>C >...after having previously given roadmaps, assurances, and yes,=20tG >commitments to the Alpha customer base about the future of Alpha. I=20.A >believe the phrase, "Bet Your Business" was used more than once., >   G Situations change.  What was the right decision yesterday, isn't alwayslH right today.  It's not clear to me given how big the change was, and theF negotiations that were taking place - how the decision could have beenC communicated that would have made everyone happy.  We use "Bet yourIF business: when we talk about VMS - it doesn't matter what the hardwareE platform is.  The HW isn't important as long as it is fast enough fori' your needs, and priced for your budget.>   >> They didn't cancel VMS. >nH >...yet. Unless something happens on IPF, and damned fast, the o.s. with  H >no hardware platform will simply evaporate. Everyone from Carly on down  6 >better get *REAL* clear on that! ...*REAL* damn fast! >c  D You are listening to the people who have an axe to grind predict theD doom of a real chip, with real numbers, that you can purchase today,F that is competetive in the 64-bit space with Sun.  Against a chip thatC has yet to deliver, yet to find a system vendor to build enterpriseaG systems, and from a company that is and will continue to be battered on : the front where it makes it's real money - the IA32 space.  G The Optitron (or whatever Hammer is now called) is likely - if it shipsVE on time and with performance near the estimated performance - to be a-H IA32 competetor, but how much penetration it makes into the 64-bit spaceG has yet to be seen - perhaps if Sun ditches Sparc for Hammer...  maybe.-G Given Intels IA32 performance, it's also a question if Hammer will livecH up to it's hype on IA32 performance.  How much trouble AMD will be in byF next year, given Intels performance and pricing of IA32 is also a good	 question.   H But Itanium-2 is here *today*.  It has the *infrastructure* work done toH support enterprise systems, while x86-64 will probably start out life as@ a BIOS based PC clone.  While the x86-64 strategy might interestF Microsoft, will the IA32 emulation performance drive the Linux or UNIX market?e  E Do customers running applications on VMS or UNIX care about it's IA32iH performance?  Do they care about the ISA (EPIC versus x86-64)?  Yes, theE WINDOWS people do.  But Linux is the fastest growing OS in the serveri market.p  G >> The only regret I have is that we didn't start the port to IA64 a=20 
 >> year or soI >> earlier... because we could be selling VMS on those < $5k Itanium 2=20  >> workstations today. >iJ >You could be selling VMS on everything from <$600 desktops to <$15,000=20H >enterprise servers now, if you get right down to it ... oh, yeah - I=20< >forgot - I'm the only one who understands that. Oh, well... >oJ >These are *MY* opinions and it is not likely that I will be swayed any=20G >more than you, Bill, or anyone else. So, let's just agree to disagree.e >dI >You're an intelligent man and a remarkable engineer. I was not gifted=20eJ >with high, measurable intelligence, but I get along as best I can in a=20% >world that I must struggle to grasp.2 >:I >We are different, and our opinions are different. That's part of what=20aE >life is all about. So, let's accept our differences and move on, 'K?- >   H I'm with you on this.  Lets agree to disagree and move forward.  We playC the hand we have, and try to do the best with it.  Try to influencenB *future* plans and events, and not endlessly replay the what-if's.  E Heck, if *I* could go back in time and changed things, DEC would havelC purchased/merged with Apple in the early 80's.  We would never havemG built the Pro300, or the Rainbow.  I would convince Ken how to tell the F good guys around him from the bad guys.  I would have made some subtleG changes in the original VAX ISA that would have made it easier to buildlG faster VAXes.  And would have made damn sure that Dave Cutler didn't goiG to MS, and that we were not afraid to canabalize the VMS base to get toJ the "next generation" of VMSF *and* UNIX without the VAX baggage.  I would have dropped the price ofG the VS2000 to just barely make a profit, and VMS prices for the low-endoF so low that Sun would have been stillborn in the technical workstationC space.  I would have let the $4b+ cash on hand carry us through thel> rough times, and not laid off, crippled, and decorporated DEC.   ------------------------------    Date: 29 Jul 2002 01:20:28 -07000 From: emmanuel.choquet@hp.com (Emmanuel Choquet)' Subject: Re: Low-level format SCSI diskt= Message-ID: <7aabdf42.0207290020.489b65f8@posting.google.com>r  f soterro@yahoo.com (Soterro) wrote in message news:<d5440555.0207260718.7041a01c@posting.google.com>... > Hello, > H > I have a dual-boot Digital Personal Workstation 600au with OpenVMS and > Tru64.E > I got some ex-AS/400 hard-disks formatted with the 520-bytes sector G > size. Not good, I need 512 (I had to install Linux to figure out whate > the problem is :)a > E > They are nice disks, so I have to low-level format them somehow, isaF > there a utility under one of those two operating systems to do that? >    on TRU64Unix : scu -f /dev/rdisk/dskXXc	 scu> help  Topic : format ...  ...w scu> format ....  8 > Or is there a way to do it at booting time under SRM? F > (I have also a PW 500a, but AlphaBIOS doesn't want to do anything on > off-line disks)t  F Not I'm aware of. take off the disk, connect it to and adaptec SCSI on a PC, and format :-)   >  > Thanks a lot,l >  > Sorin Costea   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2002 12:25:23 +0100p( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1> Subject: Re: MIPS and TPSt) Message-ID: <3D452623.3ED310BA@127.0.0.1>>   "David J. Dachtera" wrote: >  > Dan O'Reilly wrote:d > >e4 > > At 07:10 AM 7/26/2002, Jan-Erik Sderholm wrote:! > > >MIPS, TPS, VUPS, whatever...  > > >h. > > >MIPS = Million *instructions* per second.> > > >TPS  = *Transactions* per second (whatever *that* is...).; > > >VUPS = how many times faster is *this* system compared ) > > >        with a VAX 11/750 (I think).t > >h1 > > "VAX Unit of Performance".  1 VUP = 1 11/780.r > ( > 1 VUP = approx. 0.9 MIPs, as I recall.  B Yes I have that recollection as well. Is there a reference for it? (Anyone)   -- r? Regards, Nic Clews a.k.a. Mr. CP Charges, CSC Computer Sciencesr nclews at csc dot come   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2002 11:50:51 GMTl& From: Bob Willard <BobwBSGS@attbi.com> Subject: Re: MIPS and TPS ) Message-ID: <3D452BDB.70252021@attbi.com>t   "David J. Dachtera" wrote: >  > Dan O'Reilly wrote:i > >y4 > > At 07:10 AM 7/26/2002, Jan-Erik Sderholm wrote:! > > >MIPS, TPS, VUPS, whatever...h > > >i. > > >MIPS = Million *instructions* per second.> > > >TPS  = *Transactions* per second (whatever *that* is...).; > > >VUPS = how many times faster is *this* system comparedn) > > >        with a VAX 11/750 (I think).o > > 1 > > "VAX Unit of Performance".  1 VUP = 1 11/780.e > ( > 1 VUP = approx. 0.9 MIPs, as I recall.   Yes and no.a  >    Yes: comparing that 1 VUP system (the VAX 11/780, as it was>    then known) to IBM mainframe systems, it was generally feltA    (by users who had both) that it was roughly comparable to whataB    IBM would have rated a 1 MIP system.  {Note:  0.9 ~= 1.0 here.}  <    No: the 780 had a 5 MHz clock, and based on some workload=    (timesharing IIRC, but I have no details), it executed VAXe:    instructions at roughly 11 TPI (Ticks Per Instruction).3    So, a VUP is ~ 0.45 MIPs, where I means a VAX I.t -- , Cheers, Bob    ------------------------------    Date: 29 Jul 2002 07:53:23 -0600- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)  Subject: Re: MIPS and TPSn3 Message-ID: <3ruEIuuaMhoU@eisner.encompasserve.org>W  T In article <3D452623.3ED310BA@127.0.0.1>, Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1> writes: > "David J. Dachtera" wrote: >> a) >> 1 VUP = approx. 0.9 MIPs, as I recall.e > D > Yes I have that recollection as well. Is there a reference for it?
 > (Anyone)  G    Not just YYMV, but your mileage may vary WIDELY.  I ran some actuallrG    tests on 11/780 and found the depending on instruction mix and cachecH    hit rate I could get it to run as slow at 0.75 MIPS or as fast as 2.1,    MIPS, a varation of almost a factor of 3.  E    Interesting the not only did DEC define 1 VUP as 1 VAX 11/780, butpI    also the first SPEC standard was 1 Spec mark for 1 VAX 11/780 running i     a specific version of Ultrix.   ------------------------------    Date: 29 Jul 2002 06:25:19 -0700+ From: david.m.gray@bigfoot.com (David Gray)s( Subject: Re: OpenVMS documentation.... ?= Message-ID: <4da983bf.0207290525.57ca13d5@posting.google.com>   * Thanks to everyone who answered.  The link2 http://www.openvms.compaq.com/doc works just fine.  	 Regards, n     David. a    p david.m.gray@bigfoot.com (David Gray) wrote in message news:<4da983bf.0207260440.7c4d09e9@posting.google.com>...; > Does anyone know an alternate location for online OpenVMS G > documentation?  The link from http://www.openvms.compaq.com:8000/ hasy > been broken for a few days.a >  > Regards, 2 > David.   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2002 14:59:48 GMTc0 From: "warren sander" <warren.sander@compaq.com>( Subject: Re: OpenVMS documentation.... ?2 Message-ID: <ELc19.12$rv2.487583@news.cpqcorp.net>  K I'm planning to do that when I do the hp branding on the site. At that time  all the doc pages J will be branding correctly and I won't get hassles from the 'brand police' about those pages.  K The main reason it was on another port is historic and has gone away. I did  some tuning to makegJ big page transfers happen faster in both osu and purveyor. the majority of web pages on the siteaL didn't need these enhancements and in fact ran slower because of them. So we set up another portnI and different server to handle them. That was in 1996. The technology haso changed and it isn't neededrI anymore but we go used to a secondary port (at least I moved it from porty 81)w  G Anyway hopefully in october the entire site will be re-done and no moret :8000 stuff...   -warrene   --B ------------------------------------------------------------------6 Warren Sander                        OpenVMS MarketingG Hewlett-Packard Company              Work:  warren.sander@remove.hp.comtL 200 Forest Street MR01-3/J1          Personal: sander@remove.ma.ultranet.com3 Marlboro, MA 01752                   (508) 467-4875a5    My opinions are my own and I only speak for myselff,          Read http://www.openvms.compaq.com/B ------------------------------------------------------------------        3 "Jan-Erik Sderholm" <aaa@aaa.com> wrote in message ! news:3D430949.FBFEADAF@aaa.com... 9 > OK then, why not change to link on the OpenVMS homepagea9 > from the ":8000" variant to the better "/doc" variant ?e >d: > If the "/doc" variant works just as well (using port 80)6 > there is realy no reason to keep the port 8000 link. >l > Jan-Erik Sderholm.d   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2002 10:50:53 +0100gU From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <andrew_nospam.harrison_remove_this@sun#.com>d4 Subject: Re: OpenVMS Itanium tour update II ... wow!0 Message-ID: <ai3361$fcs$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   Paul Sture wrote:e  y > In article <01KKIVV2XXM496Y2PR@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>, Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> writes:i >  >>>theyi5 >>>definitely will market it now ... to niche marketsi >>>and ecommerce ...   >>>tK >>Any reason as to this restriction?  When I was working in England, I was oH >>surprised at first to hear that BMW UK was ARTIFICIALLY narrowing its I >>marketing and simultaneously limiting imports since it feared that, if iI >>too many people drove BMWs, it would lose its exclusive image and thus tJ >>hurt sales long-term.  :-|  VMS, however, lives from its strength alone 8 >>and not from its image, though it is rather exclusive. >> > M > BMW UK has been doing that for years. My only BMW was a 318i, bought in NL. N > They UK refused to import that model because they wanted to keep the quantumO > leap in price and status between the 316 (4 cylinders, single headlights) and + > 320/323 (6 cylinders, double headlights).o > J > Mercedes UK also used to price their entry level model artificially highQ > compared to the rest of their range, as a barrier to entry. I once rented a 190uQ > out of Heathrow on a special offer. Unable to find the foglight switch I calledoK > in at my local MB garage and asked. The salesman demanded to know who wasfP > renting Mercs out, and got quite hot under the collar about it. Apparently the2 > only way you got to drive one was by buying one! > O > Having said all that, the UK market was for a long time heavily skewed by theiC > company car culture, which was a direct result of the tax system.  > M > This led to the car reflecting the status of your job, rather than personal4G > choice with your own money, so I don't think the comparison is valid.K > L > (Now the tax system has changed to penalise company cars, it will no doubt1 > change, although that will no doubt take time).t >     G It has happened pretty quickly, the number of Jags and big BMW's in theAC car parks has declined rapidly. People are now taking the money andRF buying their own which have to be more frugal on the fuel because with@ most companies if you opt out of the car scheme you also opt out: of the fuel car and can only claim on a per mileage basis.   Regardsa Andrew Harrisona     >    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2002 08:53:44 -0700y% From: Dean Woodward <deanw@rdrop.com> 1 Subject: Re: OT: Microsoft set-top boxes dial 911u) Message-ID: <3D456508.1EF9BDFD@rdrop.com>o   Alan Greig wrote:r > F > http://www.cnn.com/2002/TECH/ptech/07/24/msntv.prank.reut/index.html > 
 > Extract: > , > Microsoft: Prank forces MSN TV to dial 911. > July 24, 2002 Posted: 3:52 PM EDT (1952 GMT) > G > SAN FRANCISCO, California (Reuters) -- Microsoft Corp. has discoveredpF > that some users of its MSN TV service have downloaded a program thatG > makes their set-tops dial the 911 emergency number instead of regulark0 > dial-up numbers, a spokeswoman said Wednesday.  E Yep, MS has the "security" problem licked.  Well, drooled on, anyway.a   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2002 14:13:11 +0100o( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1>N Subject: Re: Philosophical use of ACLs (related to "setting up a VMS dev env")) Message-ID: <3D453F67.712FDA3A@127.0.0.1>t   JF Mezei wrote:t >  > Nic Clews wrote:P > > > Do commercial VMS shops really still bother with quotas ? I can understand3 > > > universities needing them, but corporations ?  > > @ > > If you have usage based billing, quotas can have their uses. > 5 > Do companies still bother about billing for usage ?d > P > I can understand in the old days billing for CPU, IO, TAPE, PAPER, DISK usage.K > Those resources were scarce and departments had no choice. But in today'saL > environment, is that still popular ? If you nickel and dime someone, won'tA > they likely just buy some wintel server and run it themselves ?t > K > I would have thought that in todays's environments, the "mainframe" folksnE > would just set a fixed price for an application to run based on its U > requirememts and not really bother with nickel and diming for actual cpu etc usage.r > L > Doesn't accounting add a lot of overhead, not only on the system, but moreG > specifically on the staff who have to generate the reports, bill eachg4 > department for that month's actual usage etc etc ?  G I've got to be fairly careful here because this is *one* of the optionsa? we offer a client in respect of how they pay us for what we do.a  E It exists on many platforms, including VMS. Most of your comments arenF correct, but lets say it is one of the billing options we provide, and6 some choose it. It works for them and it works for us.  E With regard to outsourcing, it was once said that an office uses manyiG pencils, but you wouldn't consider making them yourself. I think one ofhH the key reasons folks pay for a service is accountability, it provides aH definite SLA with defined areas of responsibility. Then, at a price thatD is right to them, they get a service in a form they want. I'm not anB expert in this field, I'm one in a team of many teams combining to@ provide the actual service, in the breadth of services we offer.   -- o? Regards, Nic Clews a.k.a. Mr. CP Charges, CSC Computer Sciencess nclews at csc dot comw   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2002 08:38:04 -0500t& From: jlsue <jlsuexxxz@screaminet.com>N Subject: Re: Philosophical use of ACLs (related to "setting up a VMS dev env")8 Message-ID: <vrgakuoj0un04l5edhatvp0kj4d3so6cnv@4ax.com>  9 On Fri, 26 Jul 2002 21:35:42 GMT, danco@pebble.org wrote:i  : >In article <3d4183f9$1@news.si.com>, Brian Tillman wrote: > M >>>Do commercial VMS shops really still bother with quotas ? I can understande0 >>>universities needing them, but corporations ? >>  7 >> Of course corporations use them.  Why wouldn't they?m >r >IMO,o > E >Because they can be a pain in the butt to administer.  Buying larger G >disks to the point where you don't really worry about disk space usageeJ >except to do some cleanup every now and then is much easier toadminister.G >Quotas are useful for uncooperative, unprofessional, unaccountable and K >hostile user environments.  Otherwise they are just an all around waste of 2 >expensive employee and consultant time = big $$$. >     B I agree with this, depending on the environment in question.  Back? when I was administering systems & clusters I found that quotas > increased my (nuisance) "customer" phone call count, making it- difficult to get any work of real value done.i  F I fixed the "full disk" problem by having good monitoring and alertingD systems instead.  This works really well even if you don't have 24x72 operators, as long as you have dial-up capability.  F I fixed the recharging-for-disk-space issue by running regular reportsD via free tools to calculate used/allocated space owned by each user.F The tools that read through the INDEXF.SYS file (rather than read down= through th entire directory structure) work pretty fast.  ThesC philosophy is that I'd rather incur the overhead of "accounting foriE disk space" for short periods of time by running this program, rathera+ than all the time by having quotas enabled.n  E There are many responsibilities in the system manager's job, but diskIC quotas was the least fulfilling and least valuable, especially witht) the low cost of disk space we have today.t  ) Not speaking for anyone, certainly not HPd- (get rid of the xxxz in my address to e-mail)o   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2002 10:26:56 -0500 + From: Chuck Aaron <caaron@ceris.purdue.edu>e Subject: PointSecure0 Message-ID: <3D455EC0.7C0FDA78@ceris.purdue.edu>   Group,  D I'd appreciate it if anyone is using PointSecure if they would shareC with me what software package(s) you are using and how you like thes results.   Thanks,    Chuck Aarons VMS Systems Managerh CERIS - Purdue Univ.   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2002 12:53:39 GMTn+ From: "Rick Barry" <barry@star.zko.dec.com>21 Subject: Re: Preventing ACME_SERVER From Startinga2 Message-ID: <nVa19.10$dk2.112750@news.cpqcorp.net>  L > I'm not certain what the "E" is, but ACM is Authentication and CredentialsI > Management. The "E" is probably "Executive" (or maybe "Eisteddfod", butv > I doubt it).  J ACME translates to "Authentication and Credentials Management Extensions".F It's the new subsystem introduced in VMS 7.3-1 that's comprised of theF SYS$ACM system service, ACME_SERVER process, and (VMS and MSV1_0) ACMEG agents. It's a bit like the UNIX PAM (pluggable authentication modules)e( framework but in separate process space.  D OK, it's actually been around since 7.2-1, but restricted to the COM, product. It's now available for general use.  
 Rick Barry OpenVMS Systems Software Group Hewlett Packard Company 
 Nashua, NH   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2002 12:22:00 GMTd. From: peter@langstoeger.at (Peter LANGSTOEGER)$ Subject: Re: printer status question3 Message-ID: <Ira19.34669$cU1.853733@news.chello.at>S  b In article <3d401fa6$1@news.si.com>, "Brian Tillman" <tillman_brian@notnoone.notnohow.com> writes:: >>Did you restart the queue by running DCPS$STARTUP.COM or >>by using $START/QUEUE? >>7 >>I don't think that the queue will start properly with$7 >>the latter command if it's a queue that DCPS sets up,n >lE >We use START and STOP for our DCPS queues all the time.  No problem.-  ? And I use ENABLE AUTOSTART to start all (mostly DCPS !!) queueso and had no problem either...  N btw: I never used DCPS$STARTUP.COM as I INIT the queues only once (/AUTOSTART)   -- e Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER % Network and OpenVMS system specialist5 E-mail  peter@langstoeger.atP A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm looking for (a) Network _and_ VMS Job(s)   ------------------------------    Date: 29 Jul 2002 02:33:05 -0700( From: robert_kersey@bat.com (Rob Kersey)* Subject: Running an .EXE from a .COM file.= Message-ID: <f936a854.0207290133.77d05ab5@posting.google.com>   E I am trying to run an .exe from within a .com file. The .exe requires > input back from the user before it exits on the users request.  F The problem that I am having is that the .com file does not pause whenC it gets to the running of the .exe unless I use SPAWN/WAIT. HoweveruF the .com file is being run from within a captive account and therefore no spawning is allowed.s  F Is there another way to run an .exe and get the com file to pause/wait before it continues.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2002 05:41:41 -0400-& From: Ken Robinson <kenrbnsn1@rcn.com>. Subject: Re: Running an .EXE from a .COM file.< Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020729053955.0325deb8@pop.rcn.com>  ' At 02:33 AM 7/29/2002 -0700, you wrote: F >I am trying to run an .exe from within a .com file. The .exe requires? >input back from the user before it exits on the users request.M > G >The problem that I am having is that the .com file does not pause whennD >it gets to the running of the .exe unless I use SPAWN/WAIT. HoweverG >the .com file is being run from within a captive account and therefore  >no spawning is allowed. > G >Is there another way to run an .exe and get the com file to pause/waita >before it continues.   D Before executing the .exe, insert the line "$ define/user sys$input 
 sys$command".C  K This changes the input stream for the next executable only to the terminal -! instead of the command procedure.1   Ken Robinson   ------------------------------  + Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2002 11:47:18 +0100 (MET)49 From: Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> . Subject: Re: Running an .EXE from a .COM file.; Message-ID: <01KKNZ9TCM0S96Z0WG@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>h  G > I am trying to run an .exe from within a .com file. The .exe requiresS@ > input back from the user before it exits on the users request. > H > The problem that I am having is that the .com file does not pause whenE > it gets to the running of the .exe unless I use SPAWN/WAIT. However0H > the .com file is being run from within a captive account and therefore > no spawning is allowed.e > H > Is there another way to run an .exe and get the com file to pause/wait > before it continues.  ) $  DEFINE/USER_MODE SYS$INPUT SYS$COMMANDa $  RUN <myimage>.EXE  < Replace <myimage> with the name of the .exe you want to run.   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 28 Jul 2002 22:27:40 -0400 * From: "Leo Demers" <Leo_dot_Demers@hp.com> Subject: Re: sftp for OpenVMS1* Message-ID: <ai3jep$f58$1@web1.cup.hp.com>   Jakob,G      In addition to what has been said in this thread about the process-J software options there are some additional alternatives for securing links4 that will be part of the OpenVMS 7.3-1 distribution.K Specifically we will be shipping a port of OpenSSL for VMS as part of 7.3-1BK and there will be a port of Stunnel (www.stunnel.org) for OpenVMS that willa7 be on the "Open Source Tools" CD that ships with 7.3-1.eJ     Stunnel has some limitations in regards to FTP as it is able to secureJ the control channel (the User name/Password and commands link) but not the
 data channel.t?  Stunnel does fully encrypt telnet, rcp and others so there areh
 alternatives. K  OpenVMS has checked out Stunnel with a few applications and the readme.txttH file that accompanies the port contains the restrictions and limitations: that we have found. Like the telnet issue mentioned above.F     In addition there is a port of SSH for TCP/IP services for OpenVMSI version 5.3 that is in the works will be available in the fall timeframe.0L It will also be included in the next release of TCP/IP services. However forG earlier versions support you will need to talk to the folks at process.  Good luck I hope this helps.   - Leoh -- "Are we having fun yet?"  OpenVMS Security Product Manager  0 "Jakob Erber" <erberj@yahoo.de> wrote in message news:3d4102ae$1@news.post.ch...w/ > I asume, this is not available on VMS, is it?m >. > best regards >w > Jakobn >  >a   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2002 10:51:40 -0700s, From: "James Gessling" <jgessling@yahoo.com>& Subject: Using PCA on an Apache module5 Message-ID: <ai3vbe$11cpmd$1@ID-46415.news.dfncis.de>2  I I'm trying to investigate performance of an Apache module.  When I follow: theV- instructions for invoking the debugger as in:v  L http://www.openvms.compaq.com/openvms/products/ips/apache/csws_install_001.h tml#buildmodulechapt  K and define LIB$DEBUG to PCA$COLLECTOR as per the PCA docs, when I start theo web F server I get a PCA decwindows display.  But it's blank, just a border.  F I played with the pcac.dat resource file and it is getting read, I can  change the starting window size.> But without any buttons to in the window I can't collect data.  L Any ideas? perhaps is there a pca init file I could use to start collection?  
 Regards,  Jim    ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2002.415 ************************