1 INFO-VAX	Sat, 01 Jun 2002	Volume 2002 : Issue 301       Contents:A Re: "Recode in another language", was: RE: VAX to ia64 migration? A Re: "Recode in another language", was: RE: VAX to ia64 migration? A Re: "Recode in another language", was: RE: VAX to ia64 migration? A Re: "Recode in another language", was: RE: VAX to ia64 migration? A Re: "Recode in another language", was: RE: VAX to ia64 migration? A Re: "Recode in another language", was: RE: VAX to ia64 migration? A Re: "Recode in another language", was: RE: VAX to ia64 migration? 3 Re: Another analyst says VMS port won't be finished 3 Re: Another analyst says VMS port won't be finished 3 Re: Another analyst says VMS port won't be finished 3 Re: Another analyst says VMS port won't be finished 3 Re: Another analyst says VMS port won't be finished 3 Re: Another analyst says VMS port won't be finished 3 Re: Another analyst says VMS port won't be finished 3 Re: Another analyst says VMS port won't be finished 3 Re: Another analyst says VMS port won't be finished 3 Re: Another analyst says VMS port won't be finished 3 Re: Another analyst says VMS port won't be finished 3 Re: Another analyst says VMS port won't be finished 3 Re: Another analyst says VMS port won't be finished 3 Re: Another analyst says VMS port won't be finished : Re: Anyone know a good source for DB25/DB9 to RJ adapters?2 Re: Blocking maile (waOh My God Help Me Please!!!) Re: Caculator within DCL Re: Caculator within DCL= Re: Can anyone please explain this strange DECnet behaviour ? = Re: Can anyone please explain this strange DECnet behaviour ? 0 Re: Can one filter node visibility with DECnet ?= Re: China to launch cyber attacks soon, be on VMS or bye-bye!  Re: Console graphics reset  Re: Creating ACEs from a program  Re: Creating ACEs from a program  Re: Creating ACEs from a program. Data redundancy options for 3000 foot distance2 Re: Data redundancy options for 3000 foot distance% Re: F$PARSE equivalent in a program ?  fortran  Re: fortran  Re: fortran  Re: fortran 2 RE: Freeing memory declared in C but freed in PL/I2 RE: Freeing memory declared in C but freed in PL/I) has anyone ported this opensource to VMS? - Re: has anyone ported this opensource to VMS? - Re: has anyone ported this opensource to VMS? - Re: has anyone ported this opensource to VMS? - Re: has anyone ported this opensource to VMS? & Re: Looking for a couple of volunteers& Re: Looking for a couple of volunteers& RE: Looking for a couple of volunteers& Re: Mark Gorham's Beer Bash in Reading& Re: Mark Gorham's Beer Bash in Reading& Re: Mark Gorham's Beer Bash in Reading& Re: Mark Gorham's Beer Bash in Reading& Re: Mark Gorham's Beer Bash in Reading& Re: Mark Gorham's Beer Bash in ReadingE Re: Memo: Re: Another UK-based VMS System Manager looking for work...  Re: MntVerifyTimeout Question  Re: MntVerifyTimeout Question  Re: Mobile printing. Re: Mobile printing. Re: Mobile printing. Re: Mobile printing.! Re: Multinet, NFS and Sun Solaris  Re: No new Alpha sales Re: Oh My God Help Me Please!!!  Re: Oh My God Help Me Please!!!  Re: Open Letter to HP  Re: Open Letter to HP  Re: Open Letter to HP  Re: Open Letter to HP  Re: Open Letter to HP  Re: Open Letter to HP  Re: Open Letter to HP  Re: Open Letter to HP  Re: Open Letter to HP  Re: Open Letter to HP  Re: Open Letter to HP  Re: Open Letter to HP  Re: Open Letter to HP  Re: Open Letter to HP & Open-source poses security risks - Da!* Re: Open-source poses security risks - Da!* Re: Open-source poses security risks - Da!* Re: Open-source poses security risks - Da!* Re: Open-source poses security risks - Da!  Re: OpenVMS FAQ due next week..." Re: OT: Units (was USofA'an coins), Re: Please Read - Very Important Information, Re: Please Read - Very Important Information, Re: Please Read - Very Important Information, Re: Please Read - Very Important Information, Re: Please Read - Very Important Information, Re: Please Read - Very Important Information+ Re: read access required to write to a file  Re: Shadow sets efficiency Re: Shadow sets efficiency Re: Shadow sets efficiency Re: Shadow sets efficiency> Shadowset on standalone system goes into merge state on rebootB Re: Shadowset on standalone system goes into merge state on reboot Re: SHOW LOGICAL bug?  Re: TCPware 5.5 & CSWS 1.2 Re: TCPware 5.5 & CSWS 1.2 Re: TCPware 5.5 & CSWS 1.2 Re: VAX emulators (was freeVMS) # Re: VMS Clusters with FDDI/Ethernet  Re: VMS to UNIX/LINUX 1 Would you like to see this on the VMS freeware CD # Re: [Change topic]:  USofA'an coins   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 20:56:11 GMT & From: John Reagan <john.reagan@hp.com>J Subject: Re: "Recode in another language", was: RE: VAX to ia64 migration?# Message-ID: <3CF7E211.90405@hp.com>    This really isn't new.  H Not to defend the decisions, we told the same thing to our SCAN, DIBOL, I LISP, KOALA, etc. customers over the years.  Heck, I've even recommended  D to a few Pascal customers to recode to something besides Pascal for  various reasons.  E Perhaps we shouldn't word it exactly as "recode or else" but perhaps  F just state the fact that WE are getting out of that language business + and let the 3rd party market fill the void.   G In my personal opinion, I'm not sure I agree with all the decisions of   the past, but nobody asked me.     --   John Reagan ' Compaq Pascal/{A|I}MACRO Project Leader  Hewlett-Packard Company    ------------------------------    Date: 31 May 2002 15:53:27 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) J Subject: Re: "Recode in another language", was: RE: VAX to ia64 migration?3 Message-ID: <4bVVDH9Un4oU@eisner.encompasserve.org>   x In article <XSdUrZ5T5f2u@eisner.encompasserve.org>, clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP (Simon Clubley) writes:  K > With the above in mind, and taking a language that I do know, I wonder if J > anyone at HP has been daft enough to tell Ada users to recode in C/C++ ? > K > [For the benefit of people not familiar with Ada, such a suggestion would M > go down very badly with people who made the decision that Ada was the right L > language to use, probably worse than VMS people been told that the upgrade > path from VMS is to HP-UX.]  > H > Do PL/I users feel as strongly about PL/I as Ada people do about Ada ? >  > Simon. > H > PS: I am _not_ trying to start a language war. I write in a variety ofE > languages, including C, and pick the best one for the task at hand. J > I am just a bit concerned that HP would tell people to recode in anotherF > language without apparently taking into account the reasons that the2 > original language was chosen in the first place.  C Although I have language preferences, one of the _worst_ things you D can do is to rewrite a program in a different language just to go to that language.  ? I _have_ rewritten programs into a different language, but most A typically when they needed to be totally rewritten for some other ; reason.  A notable case was a program that depended heavily = on static variables and now was required to operated inside a = multithreaded environment.  You can write code without static > variables in almost any VMS language (not Cobol, as I recall),@ but if you don't start out with that approach sometimes the onlyC thing to do is start over.  _That_ is the time to choose a language C that will catch more programming errors, support full-motion video, E maximize billable hours chasing bugs, or whatever your goal might be.    ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 01 Jun 2002 03:08:43 GMT 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> J Subject: Re: "Recode in another language", was: RE: VAX to ia64 migration?' Message-ID: <3CF83E42.25D059D4@fsi.net>    John Reagan wrote: >  > This really isn't new. > I > Not to defend the decisions, we told the same thing to our SCAN, DIBOL,  > LISP, KOALA, etc.   ? I used to know what KOALA is/was. Can anyone refresh my memory?   8 > customers over the years.  Heck, I've even recommendedE > to a few Pascal customers to recode to something besides Pascal for  > various reasons. > F > Perhaps we shouldn't word it exactly as "recode or else" but perhapsG > just state the fact that WE are getting out of that language business - > and let the 3rd party market fill the void.   H You're keeping them up to speed on GEM, right? Otherwise, it'd be number4 language vendors = number of object code generators.  H > In my personal opinion, I'm not sure I agree with all the decisions of  > the past, but nobody asked me.   All right, then. I'll ask.   --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 01 Jun 2002 03:39:30 GMT * From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>J Subject: Re: "Recode in another language", was: RE: VAX to ia64 migration?@ Message-ID: <SlXJ8.87562$Gs.8444671@bin5.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>  < "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote in message! news:3CF83E42.25D059D4@fsi.net...  > John Reagan wrote: > >  > > This really isn't new. > > K > > Not to defend the decisions, we told the same thing to our SCAN, DIBOL,  > > LISP, KOALA, etc.  > A > I used to know what KOALA is/was. Can anyone refresh my memory?   I Not really, but it jogged a few of my own.  I think the first two letters G may have been related to one of the *first* DEC advanced development PC G efforts (called the 'KO', for obvious reasons).  The main KOALA creator J (whose name escapes me right now) was a bright, engaging character who gotK laid off when the initial KO effort ceased and then very quickly rehired as G a contractor at about double his previous salary when KOALA development 	 lived on.    - bill   ------------------------------    Date: 31 May 2002 20:43:30 -0700( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)J Subject: Re: "Recode in another language", was: RE: VAX to ia64 migration?= Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0205311943.453f7e21@posting.google.com>   h Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) wrote in message news:<4bVVDH9Un4oU@eisner.encompasserve.org>...z > In article <XSdUrZ5T5f2u@eisner.encompasserve.org>, clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP (Simon Clubley) writes: > M > > With the above in mind, and taking a language that I do know, I wonder if L > > anyone at HP has been daft enough to tell Ada users to recode in C/C++ ? > > M > > [For the benefit of people not familiar with Ada, such a suggestion would O > > go down very badly with people who made the decision that Ada was the right N > > language to use, probably worse than VMS people been told that the upgrade > > path from VMS is to HP-UX.]  > > J > > Do PL/I users feel as strongly about PL/I as Ada people do about Ada ? > > 
 > > Simon. > > J > > PS: I am _not_ trying to start a language war. I write in a variety ofG > > languages, including C, and pick the best one for the task at hand. L > > I am just a bit concerned that HP would tell people to recode in anotherH > > language without apparently taking into account the reasons that the4 > > original language was chosen in the first place. > E > Although I have language preferences, one of the _worst_ things you F > can do is to rewrite a program in a different language just to go to > that language. > A > I _have_ rewritten programs into a different language, but most C > typically when they needed to be totally rewritten for some other = > reason.  A notable case was a program that depended heavily ? > on static variables and now was required to operated inside a ? > multithreaded environment.  You can write code without static @ > variables in almost any VMS language (not Cobol, as I recall),B > but if you don't start out with that approach sometimes the onlyE > thing to do is start over.  _That_ is the time to choose a language E > that will catch more programming errors, support full-motion video, G > maximize billable hours chasing bugs, or whatever your goal might be.   F that is why you use a language like DIBOL ... we new years ago that ifD DIBOL was never ported from vax to alpha that synergy dbl was there,F and it would, and it also ran on windoze/unix/linux ... so porting forC us if we have to is no big deal ... you must use a language that is B supported on multiple platforms and runs w/a simple recompile, andE synergy DIBOL is one of a few (Java only other?) that allows this ...    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 01 Jun 2002 00:19:51 -0400 % From: JF Mezei <jfmezei@videotron.ca> J Subject: Re: "Recode in another language", was: RE: VAX to ia64 migration?, Message-ID: <3CF84B66.E141AA3B@videotron.ca>   John Reagan wrote:F > Perhaps we shouldn't word it exactly as "recode or else" but perhapsG > just state the fact that WE are getting out of that language business - > and let the 3rd party market fill the void.   N Since Curly sold its compilers and compiler engineers as slaves to Intel, then there is no choice.   N Remember that this was part of the June 25 announcement. In IA64, Compaq wouldF use "industry standard" compilers and the onles on Alpha would just be' maintained to ensure they still worked.   H When VMS lost its proprietary compilers, it lost an edge it had over itsN competitors. Digital's compilers were tuned not only to the hardware, but also& the debugger and the operating system.  = It remains to be seen how Intel's compilers will work on VMS.   S The word "quality" was associated with "Digital". It isn't associated with "Intel".    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 01 Jun 2002 00:59:43 -0400 % From: JF Mezei <jfmezei@videotron.ca> J Subject: Re: "Recode in another language", was: RE: VAX to ia64 migration?, Message-ID: <3CF854BC.7448485F@videotron.ca>   "David J. Dachtera" wrote:A > I used to know what KOALA is/was. Can anyone refresh my memory?   1 I believe it is Ken's Office Automation LAnguage.    eg: ALL-IN-1 scripting.    ------------------------------    Date: 31 May 2002 13:09:22 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) < Subject: Re: Another analyst says VMS port won't be finished3 Message-ID: <9xqvvpLEg0e8@eisner.encompasserve.org>   s In article <3VLJ8.161958$Po6.334782@rwcrnsc52.ops.asp.att.net>, "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com> writes:  > H > "Phillip Helbig" <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> wrote in message7 > news:01KIDRJECGKS96WE0C@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com... A >> > http://domino.metagroup.com/bios98a.nsf/analyst/rakesh_kumar  >>K >> Interesting tidbit: "Prior to joining META Group in January 1999, he was F >> EMEA marketing manager for Hewlett Packard's commercial Unix and NTI >> business.  Prior to that, Mr. Kumar held various positions with IBM in I >> code development, sales and consultancy operations management, and its " >> software business development." > M > Ah.A VMS Expert. Wonder if he's related to Ashok Kumar, big-time HPQ-basher  > at Piper Jaffrey Bankcorp?  D Perhaps not.  That one was at Piper Jaffrey simultaneous with a moreD technical Ashok Kumar being a database developer at Sybase.  Perhaps5 Ashok Kumar is the Indian equivalent of "John Smith".    ------------------------------    Date: 31 May 2002 13:06:49 -0600+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) < Subject: Re: Another analyst says VMS port won't be finished3 Message-ID: <MusgwJb7V5Xn@eisner.encompasserve.org>   s In article <myOJ8.163762$Po6.335539@rwcrnsc52.ops.asp.att.net>, "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com> writes:  > 0 > "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> wrote in messageE > news:M_NJ8.162916$t8_.94188@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com...  >>8 >> "Bob Ceculski" <bob@instantwhip.com> wrote in message: >> news:d7791aa1.0205310714.6d5aaa96@posting.google.com... >> >F >> > this guy obviously doesn't understand the vms market and customer' >> > base, not to mention the os ......  >> >>) >>  He doesn't have to, though he should.  >>L >> This is nothing different than the salesperson from the local electricity > orJ >> gas direct marketer coming door-to-door telling you that he has a great > dealK >> for you. You won't know whether he's telling the truth or not unless you K >> compare the real details of his offer vs. what you currently pay and are 8 >> likely to pay under your current billing preferences. >>F >> In the case of Gartner et. al., I mean corporate executives who areD >> sufficiently educated and curious enough and take their corporateA >> responsibilities seriously enough to call the analyst's bluff.  > Unfortunately F >> too many of execs are swayed too easily by primo seats at football,M >> basketball, hockey games, or pit passes to F1 events, or golf junkets laida2 >> on in the form of 'Armani analyst' conferences. >>  >> It's enough to make you puke. >> > I > I think it's a bit different than that. First, all Armani Analysts have K > sales quotas. Hence they have to spend as much time selling as analyzing.sN > It's sad to see 'em at vendor briefings. They sit their in their suits, lookG > holier than thou, take no notes (they don't need to, they know it alllL > already!), but at each and every break they sidle up to the vendor speakerM > and say something to the effect of "great speech... you should know that we M > are about to launch an Important Multiclient Study, yadda yadda yadda, that'N > you REALLY need to participate (e.g. belly up to the bar with the big bucks) > in.s > D > Second, Corporate America has been gulled. "Gee, I paid $50K for a@ > subscription to this research, hence it MUST BE RIGHT!" Doh... > K > This is not a blanket indictment of all analysts. Brad Day is good. So iseM > Richard Fichera. So are the folks at Illuminata and, generally speaking, DHn@ > Brown. IDC seems to put out some pretty good research as well. >   < 	Hmmmm... you left out Gartner and Meta.  Seems IBM has beenA 	spending a LOT of money on Gartner lately.  Belly up to the bar?c 	I thought it was a trough.M   				Robe   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 18:53:42 GMTa1 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com>p< Subject: Re: Another analyst says VMS port won't be finished= Message-ID: <WEPJ8.68365$ux5.82091@rwcrnsc51.ops.asp.att.net>a  8 "Rob Young" <young_r@encompasserve.org> wrote in message- news:MusgwJb7V5Xn@eisner.encompasserve.org...bK > In article <myOJ8.163762$Po6.335539@rwcrnsc52.ops.asp.att.net>, "Terry C.o) Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com> writes:  > >e2 > > "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> wrote in messageG > > news:M_NJ8.162916$t8_.94188@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com...S > >>: > >> "Bob Ceculski" <bob@instantwhip.com> wrote in message< > >> news:d7791aa1.0205310714.6d5aaa96@posting.google.com... > >> >H > >> > this guy obviously doesn't understand the vms market and customer) > >> > base, not to mention the os ......e > >> > >>+ > >>  He doesn't have to, though he should.e > >>B > >> This is nothing different than the salesperson from the local electricity  > > orL > >> gas direct marketer coming door-to-door telling you that he has a great > > dealI > >> for you. You won't know whether he's telling the truth or not unlesse youiI > >> compare the real details of his offer vs. what you currently pay and  areu: > >> likely to pay under your current billing preferences. > >>H > >> In the case of Gartner et. al., I mean corporate executives who areF > >> sufficiently educated and curious enough and take their corporateC > >> responsibilities seriously enough to call the analyst's bluff.L > > UnfortunatelypH > >> too many of execs are swayed too easily by primo seats at football,J > >> basketball, hockey games, or pit passes to F1 events, or golf junkets laid4 > >> on in the form of 'Armani analyst' conferences. > >>" > >> It's enough to make you puke. > >> > >!K > > I think it's a bit different than that. First, all Armani Analysts haverB > > sales quotas. Hence they have to spend as much time selling as
 analyzing.K > > It's sad to see 'em at vendor briefings. They sit their in their suits,a lookI > > holier than thou, take no notes (they don't need to, they know it alleF > > already!), but at each and every break they sidle up to the vendor speakereL > > and say something to the effect of "great speech... you should know that weJ > > are about to launch an Important Multiclient Study, yadda yadda yadda, thatI > > you REALLY need to participate (e.g. belly up to the bar with the bige bucks) > > in.  > >hF > > Second, Corporate America has been gulled. "Gee, I paid $50K for aB > > subscription to this research, hence it MUST BE RIGHT!" Doh... > > J > > This is not a blanket indictment of all analysts. Brad Day is good. So isL > > Richard Fichera. So are the folks at Illuminata and, generally speaking, DHB > > Brown. IDC seems to put out some pretty good research as well. > >- >-) > Hmmmm... you left out Gartner and Meta.    That was not an accident.6   >Seems IBM has beena, > spending a LOT of money on Gartner lately.  K And with great effect, I might add. HPQ spends lots of money on GG as well,0$ and look at what they get in return?  J The GG VMS codswallop of December last is about to cost HPQ dearly. That'sF all I can say, but it's a sordid and downright sickening story of what7 happens when you don't stand up to misinformed bullies.d   >Belly up to the bar?e > I thought it was a trough.   Might as well be!r   ------------------------------    Date: 31 May 2002 14:12:52 -0600B From: clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP (Simon Clubley)< Subject: Re: Another analyst says VMS port won't be finished3 Message-ID: <LkDXLyTDBFtx@eisner.encompasserve.org>.  q In article <WEPJ8.68365$ux5.82091@rwcrnsc51.ops.asp.att.net>, "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com> writes:- > L > The GG VMS codswallop of December last is about to cost HPQ dearly. That'sH > all I can say, but it's a sordid and downright sickening story of what9 > happens when you don't stand up to misinformed bullies.e >   H Although you obviously have some information that you cannot talk about,I do you have a timescale in which this story will come to a conclusion andi) will you be able to speak about it then ?    Simon.   -- oB Simon Clubley, clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP       + Microsoft: The Lada of the computing world.a   ------------------------------  + Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 12:50:05 -0700 (PDT)h. From: Fabio Cardoso <fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br>< Subject: Re: Another analyst says VMS port won't be finished@ Message-ID: <20020531195005.76912.qmail@web20210.mail.yahoo.com>  & After Enron/Andersen and Merryl Linch ) I really hope Gartner in the next scandaly in USA.a   Regardsg   FC I6 --- "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com> wrote: > / > "Bob Ceculski" <bob@instantwhip.com> wrote in 	 > messagee >h7 news:d7791aa1.0205310714.6d5aaa96@posting.google.com...w4 > > Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net> wrote in message6 > news:<uuiefu4th5301ak8odnof6eqdvrbka4n6s@4ax.com>...3 > > > According to this week's UK "Computer Weekly"_ > (circulation close too2 > > > infinite it sometime appears), "Analyst Meta > Group Vice President4 > > > Rakesh Kumar (says the VMS port to Itanium) is > not going to happen" > > >n4 > > > Article appears on page 8 of the print edition > and at the following > > > URL in the onlne edition > > >n >aL http://www.cw360.com/bin/bladerunner?REQUNIQ=1022839628&REQSESS=P4245IEE4&RE >nG QHOST=site1&2131REQEVENT=&CFLAV=1&CCAT=-99999&CCHAN=-99999&CARTI=112929a > > >  > > >a4 > > > Analyst Meta Group vice-president Rakesh Kumar > said, "The simplen4 > > > answer is for HP to tell its customers when it > is going to kill off1 > > > Alpha and how they can migrate to HP-UX. Too > migrate OpenVMS to Itanium1 > > > doesn't make sense and we believe it is note > going to happen."- > > >-2 > > > If the URL wraps or is just screwed up enter > "kumar" into the searchy% > > > box at www.computerweekly.co.uke > > >t3 > > > I trust someone from Compaq will contact bothg > Computer Weekly and Meta  > > > Group to put them right... > 6 > I don't. That is the problem. HPQ is "scared" of the > overpaid Armanih3 > Analysts. It is about time that HPQ stops feedings > the hand that bites it,s2 > takes off the gloves, and discredits the pompous > bloviatiors. > , > As an HPQ stockholder I demand this. Other" > stockholders should make similar5 > demands. This "analyst" codswallop is getting a bitn > tedious, is it not???c >  >      =====r ========================== Fbio dos Santos Cardoso OpenVMS System Manager Rio de Janeiro - Brazil  fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br ==========================  2 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!?0 Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.comt   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 20:43:02 GMTe1 From: LESLIE@JRLVAX.HOUSTON.RR.COM (Jerry Leslie)y< Subject: Re: Another analyst says VMS port won't be finished; Message-ID: <qfRJ8.58353$9z5.3719983@typhoon.austin.rr.com>-  / Fabio Cardoso (fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br) wrote:3( : After Enron/Andersen and Merryl Linch + : I really hope Gartner in the next scandalg	 : in USA.  : : There's a few others that rate attention ahead of Gartner:  >    http://www.usatoday.com/money/covers/2002-01-15-bcovtue.htm"    Polaroid retirees lose benefits  F   "After taking early retirement from Polaroid, Karl Farmer called theD    company to ask how his first severance check would arrive. He wasH    stunned to find out it wasn't coming at all. Polaroid abruptly haltedF    severance payments to those who were laid off or retired early, andE    health subsidies for roughly 5,000 retirees, days before declaringeI    bankruptcy Oct. 12. Despite the cutbacks, the company moved ahead withKI    plans to give top executives millions of dollars in retention bonuses.r/    That's when retirees began fighting back..."t  C And a couple of "coporate welfare" issues that deserve attention...r  &    http://www.progress.org/corpw30.htm8    Congressman Sanders on US Corporate Welfare Giveaways9    The Export-Import Bank: Corporate Welfare At Its Worst0   G   "...The great irony of Ex-Im policy is not just that taxpayer supportiF    goes to wealthy and profitable corporations that don't need it, butE    that in the name of "job creation" a substantial amount of federalLD    funding goes to precisely those corporations that are eliminatingC    hundreds of thousands of American jobs. In other words, AmericanbD    workers are providing funding to companies that are shutting down?    the plants in which they work, and are moving them to China, D    Mexico, Vietnam and wherever else they can find cheap labor. What
    a deal!...C  C If Pakistan does nukes Bangalore, India, the U.S. would probably goaG into a depression because the Overseas Private Investment Corporation'siG $ 4 billion reserves wouldn't be sufficient to pay the claims from GE, pJ Amex, Sun, Microsoft, MasterCard, Ford, GM, Oracle, HPQ (new H-P), Intel, M Motorola, Accenture, EDS, IBM Global Services, PricewaterhouseCoopers et.al., * most of whom have facilities in Bangalore.  ,    http://www.opic.gov/insurance/welcome.htm    OPIC Insurance Main Page     i	    [snip]   H   "Risk (risk), n. 1. Exposure to the chance of injury or loss; a hazardG    or dangerous chance. Risk in today's increasingly global marketplace H    can take many different forms. Risk is a very real factor in businessG    and investor decision making, and managing that risk is paramount totI    the ultimate success or failure of any international activity. WhetheroF    it is the expropriation or nationalization of your assets or lossesC    that result from politically motivated violence such as civil orrE    international wars, these risks affect businesses across the globedE    every day. OPIC Political Risk Insurance provides the security anddG    peace of mind necessary to pursue opportunities in emerging markets,i@    places where the rules of the game can change drastically and
    suddenly."u  @ Then it'll be time to address the "Gartner Group"s of the world.  H --Jerry Leslie   leslie@clio.rice.edu  (my opinions are strictly my own)9   Note: leslie@jrlvax.houston.rr.com is invalid for emaila   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 17:22:26 -0400t% From: JF Mezei <jfmezei@videotron.ca>.< Subject: Re: Another analyst says VMS port won't be finished, Message-ID: <3CF7E990.37C1C7EB@videotron.ca>   Alan Greig wrote:n) > Compaq users relief at HP support plansi > by  Eric Doyle  8 > Under Compaq, Windows support for Alpha was curtailed   " Curtailed ??? That is a funny one.    D > Kumar said an Alpha based on Itanium and running HP-UX would be no) > different from a standard Intel server.-  M Either Kumar was misquoted, or this Kumar doesn't know the difference between.0 an Alpha and an Intel or a frog for that matter.  E > However, Intel, which entered a joint development programme for thecH > Alpha chip with Compaq, has announced that it plans to use some of the. > Alpha technology in future Itanium releases.  K Also, can anyone point to official announcements by Intel on specific AlphatK technologies that will be integrated into the totally different paradigm ofsI EPIC used by IA64 ? It is a given that Intel will use the brains from thefJ Alpha engineers. It is a given that armed with the right to use all of tehN Alpha patents, Intel won't hesisitate to inspire itself, but I doubt that theyA have so far made any commitments to use any specific Alpha stuff.i    N Joint development ? Again a good joke. Intel got Compaq to kill development ofI Alpha. All that is left is the process shrink for EV79. Not such how much M "development" that requires. But those folks stay at Compaq until the deed isi7 done and only then do they get sold as slaves to Intel.-    ? Sorry, but that article isn't worth the bits it was written on.r   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 18:09:35 -0400a% From: JF Mezei <jfmezei@videotron.ca>e< Subject: Re: Another analyst says VMS port won't be finished, Message-ID: <3CF7F499.62148287@videotron.ca>   "Terry C. Shannon" wrote:yF > I don't. That is the problem. HPQ is "scared" of the overpaid ArmaniK > Analysts. It is about time that HPQ stops feeding the hand that bites it,-? > takes off the gloves, and discredits the pompous bloviatiors.:    J Another way, which would be less confrontational is to get into a "mine isK bigger than your's " contest with IBM to see who gives Armani clad AnalystssN the best lunches. Take a manhattan analysts on the concorde for lunch in parisN and back home in time for diner with wife/kids and there are good chances that> the analyst will start writing good things about your company.  N Do this a few times, and analysts will be lining up to get that invitation forP lunch in paris, and will try to outdo each other in saying nice things about HP.   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 21:43:06 GMTr* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>< Subject: Re: Another analyst says VMS port won't be finishedA Message-ID: <K7SJ8.85492$Oa1.7860631@bin8.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>W  < "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com> wrote in message7 news:WEPJ8.68365$ux5.82091@rwcrnsc51.ops.asp.att.net...    ...a  L > The GG VMS codswallop of December last is about to cost HPQ dearly. That'sH > all I can say, but it's a sordid and downright sickening story of what9 > happens when you don't stand up to misinformed bullies.3  I May be a bit more difficult when your own actions have been the source ofhJ most of the ammunition they used.  If Compaq's behavior hadn't been sordidJ and sickening in the first place, Gartner might have stuck with the rosier8 VMS assessments it had started making not that long ago.   - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 19:26:43 -0400.% From: JF Mezei <jfmezei@videotron.ca>c< Subject: Re: Another analyst says VMS port won't be finished, Message-ID: <3CF806A8.9B2D36DD@videotron.ca>   "Terry C. Shannon" wrote:>L > The GG VMS codswallop of December last is about to cost HPQ dearly. That'sH > all I can say, but it's a sordid and downright sickening story of what9 > happens when you don't stand up to misinformed bullies.p  N Gartner says what its clients want to hear. And while the justifications givenJ for certain anti-VMS recommendations may be less than believable, the factM remains that Gartner feels that its customers are not comfortable with HP ando' writes stuff to support that sentiment.   I While it is just as important to wine and dine the Armani analysts, it iso> equally important to articulate a clear and believable vision.  L "We'll continue the Compaq roadmap" is less than clear, especially when thatU roadmap was as good as a random number generator that changes every couple of months.s   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 01 Jun 2002 01:16:31 GMT # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> < Subject: Re: Another analyst says VMS port won't be finishedJ Message-ID: <PfVJ8.155008$ah_.141894@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>  F The last time I called Dell for support on a laptop after normal NorthJ American business hours (about 6 weeks ago), I was routed to a call center6 in India. I'm almost certain that it was in Bangalore.    > "Jerry Leslie" <LESLIE@JRLVAX.HOUSTON.RR.COM> wrote in message5 news:qfRJ8.58353$9z5.3719983@typhoon.austin.rr.com...t1 > Fabio Cardoso (fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br) wrote:h) > : After Enron/Andersen and Merryl Linchh- > : I really hope Gartner in the next scandalp > : in USA.l > :S< > There's a few others that rate attention ahead of Gartner: >(@ >    http://www.usatoday.com/money/covers/2002-01-15-bcovtue.htm$ >    Polaroid retirees lose benefits >,H >   "After taking early retirement from Polaroid, Karl Farmer called theF >    company to ask how his first severance check would arrive. He wasJ >    stunned to find out it wasn't coming at all. Polaroid abruptly haltedH >    severance payments to those who were laid off or retired early, andG >    health subsidies for roughly 5,000 retirees, days before declaringBK >    bankruptcy Oct. 12. Despite the cutbacks, the company moved ahead withcK >    plans to give top executives millions of dollars in retention bonuses. 1 >    That's when retirees began fighting back..."y > E > And a couple of "coporate welfare" issues that deserve attention...M >o( >    http://www.progress.org/corpw30.htm: >    Congressman Sanders on US Corporate Welfare Giveaways; >    The Export-Import Bank: Corporate Welfare At Its Worst@ >nI >   "...The great irony of Ex-Im policy is not just that taxpayer supportpH >    goes to wealthy and profitable corporations that don't need it, butG >    that in the name of "job creation" a substantial amount of federal2F >    funding goes to precisely those corporations that are eliminatingE >    hundreds of thousands of American jobs. In other words, American0F >    workers are providing funding to companies that are shutting downA >    the plants in which they work, and are moving them to China,tF >    Mexico, Vietnam and wherever else they can find cheap labor. What >    a deal!...  >>E > If Pakistan does nukes Bangalore, India, the U.S. would probably gocI > into a depression because the Overseas Private Investment Corporation's H > $ 4 billion reserves wouldn't be sufficient to pay the claims from GE,K > Amex, Sun, Microsoft, MasterCard, Ford, GM, Oracle, HPQ (new H-P), Intel,vG > Motorola, Accenture, EDS, IBM Global Services, PricewaterhouseCoopersn et.al., , > most of whom have facilities in Bangalore. >t. >    http://www.opic.gov/insurance/welcome.htm >    OPIC Insurance Main Pageo >e >    [snip]e >eJ >   "Risk (risk), n. 1. Exposure to the chance of injury or loss; a hazardI >    or dangerous chance. Risk in today's increasingly global marketplace J >    can take many different forms. Risk is a very real factor in businessI >    and investor decision making, and managing that risk is paramount tofK >    the ultimate success or failure of any international activity. WhethertH >    it is the expropriation or nationalization of your assets or lossesE >    that result from politically motivated violence such as civil or G >    international wars, these risks affect businesses across the globeaG >    every day. OPIC Political Risk Insurance provides the security andwI >    peace of mind necessary to pursue opportunities in emerging markets,eB >    places where the rules of the game can change drastically and >    suddenly."o >hB > Then it'll be time to address the "Gartner Group"s of the world. >aJ > --Jerry Leslie   leslie@clio.rice.edu  (my opinions are strictly my own); >   Note: leslie@jrlvax.houston.rr.com is invalid for emailt   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 01 Jun 2002 00:38:25 GMTh* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>< Subject: Re: Another analyst says VMS port won't be finished@ Message-ID: <5IUJ8.82310$jm.7992026@bin6.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>  2 "JF Mezei" <jfmezei@videotron.ca> wrote in message& news:3CF7E990.37C1C7EB@videotron.ca... > Alan Greig wrote: + > > Compaq users relief at HP support plans  > > by  Eric Doyle   ...t  G > > However, Intel, which entered a joint development programme for the J > > Alpha chip with Compaq, has announced that it plans to use some of the0 > > Alpha technology in future Itanium releases. >cG > Also, can anyone point to official announcements by Intel on specific  AlphatJ > technologies that will be integrated into the totally different paradigm of > EPIC used by IA64 ?l  I I haven't seen anything specific, but Terry may have.  He has posted somelG SKC issues recently at tru64.org (likely accessible from openvms.org as6G well), one of which states that the first Alpha technology to appear inu7 Itanic will be on-chip EV7-like glue for memory and MP.d  B While his prediction was for Montecito and Chivano, Intel stated a month-plus ago  L http://www.computerworld.com/hardwaretopics/hardware/story/0,10801,70239,00.L html ) that Montecito (in 2004) would incorporate only 'little enhancements'K over Madison, which certainly sounds as if it means that such EV7-like glueoI won't appear until Chivano (in 2005-6, according to Terry's article - andlL this date is consistent with a very credible source I heard from a couple ofK months ago).  If so, that may well mean that any substantive *core* changesuG will be yet another generation out (2006-7).  As it happens, both theselL dates (and respective features) are exactly those I've been predicting since? last August 24th in a comp.arch posting ("Re:  I hate Compaq").    - bill   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 01 Jun 2002 02:48:38 GMTj1 From: LESLIE@JRLVAX.HOUSTON.RR.COM (Jerry Leslie)i< Subject: Re: Another analyst says VMS port won't be finished< Message-ID: <aCWJ8.174252$Q42.7809066@typhoon.austin.rr.com>  " John Smith (a@nonymous.com) wrote:H : The last time I called Dell for support on a laptop after normal NorthL : American business hours (about 6 weeks ago), I was routed to a call center8 : in India. I'm almost certain that it was in Bangalore. :   ' The Dell call center is in Bangalore...s  I    http://iwsun4.infoworld.com/articles/fe/xml/01/08/20/010820feindia.xml !    The back office moves to India_  	    [snip]i  D   "Round Rock, Texas-based Dell Computer opened a 200-seat technicalI    support center -- which is likely have as many as 400 seats within theoH    next six months -- in Bangalore in June. The center offers both voiceH    and e-mail support to Dell's home and small-business customers in theI    United States. By having its own center in Bangalore, Dell is ensuring&F    that it puts its own quality processes and systems in place so thatG    its customers enjoy the same quality of technical support worldwide,KF    according to Richard Chase, vice president of technical support for(    Dell's home and small-business group.  	    [snip]h  ?    The U.S. economic slowdown is likely to be a boon to India'soI    IT-enabled services providers. "The slowdown will impact us positively E    because companies need to take advantage of the leveraged costs ofaH    outsourcing to be in a position to consistently shore up their bottomH    lines quarter to quarter," says Meena Ganesh, director and co-founder!    of CustomerAsset in Bangalore..  	    [snip]p  D    Revenue from IT-enabled services is likely to continue to grow inH    India despite -- or because of -- the U.S. slowdown, but it is likelyI    to be a low-profile activity, because most customers are wary of beingcG    named. "It doesn't make for good public relations in the U.S. marketdE    to be seen to be moving jobs outside the United States, even if itcH    makes great economic sense," says a representative for a U.S. company.    that outsources customer support to India."      H --Jerry Leslie   leslie@clio.rice.edu  (my opinions are strictly my own)9   Note: leslie@jrlvax.houston.rr.com is invalid for emailf  G   "Grandpa, when I graduate from school after the 6th grade, can I come-$    work at McDonald's like you do ?"   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 01 Jun 2002 02:56:21 GMTe1 From: LESLIE@JRLVAX.HOUSTON.RR.COM (Jerry Leslie)w< Subject: Re: Another analyst says VMS port won't be finished< Message-ID: <pJWJ8.174254$Q42.7809588@typhoon.austin.rr.com>  & JF Mezei (jfmezei@videotron.ca) wrote: : "Terry C. Shannon" wrote:eH : > I don't. That is the problem. HPQ is "scared" of the overpaid ArmaniM : > Analysts. It is about time that HPQ stops feeding the hand that bites it,bA : > takes off the gloves, and discredits the pompous bloviatiors.a : L : Another way, which would be less confrontational is to get into a "mine isM : bigger than your's " contest with IBM to see who gives Armani clad AnalystsnK : the best lunches. Take a manhattan analysts on the concorde for lunch in aJ : paris and back home in time for diner with wife/kids and there are good M : chances that the analyst will start writing good things about your company.a : M : Do this a few times, and analysts will be lining up to get that invitation iM : for lunch in paris, and will try to outdo each other in saying nice things o : about HP.e  G "Ms Fiorina, we've found the new Executive VP of Media Relations you'vew  been looking for."n    H --Jerry Leslie   leslie@clio.rice.edu  (my opinions are strictly my own)9   Note: leslie@jrlvax.houston.rr.com is invalid for emailm   ------------------------------    Date: 01 Jun 2002 08:51:33 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>C Subject: Re: Anyone know a good source for DB25/DB9 to RJ adapters?L0 Message-ID: <87it537re2.fsf@k9.prep.synonet.com>   system@SendSpamHere.ORG writes:f  E > FYI, I knew of a company that thought that MMJ was evil and decidedoE > to wire their office space with normal center-tabbed 6 wire modulariB > connectors and used MOD-TAP adaptors.  During one occasion of anC > office rearrangement, somebody connected a wire from the terminalPD > server (a 128 port Datability Vista) to a 6 wire modular connectorC > that was not for terminal com- munications.  It was for telephone D > communications!  The first call to the number associated with thatB > connection fried the Vista.  Had MMJ been used, there would have! > been NO confusion and NO smoke.S  D Funny, guess what happened when DEC first trialed RJs way back when!F They then picked on MMJs as they are used by BT, so wheer available in qnantity and at low cost.P   --  < Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.k@                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------    Date: 01 Jun 2002 10:16:25 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>; Subject: Re: Blocking maile (waOh My God Help Me Please!!!)o0 Message-ID: <87ofev68w6.fsf@k9.prep.synonet.com>  7 David Beatty <David.Beatty@qwertysasasdfgh.com> writes:h   > Amendment IV  y@ > The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses,	 > papers,n  sD > and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall notD > be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause,C > supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing ther? > place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.)  F Are they planning to post this in airports when the Federals take over `security'?-   --  < Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda. @                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 19:45:23 -0400a  From: John Santos <JOHN@egh.com>! Subject: Re: Caculator within DCLf4 Message-ID: <1020531194125.359B-100000@Ives.egh.com>  * On Fri, 31 May 2002, Michael Austin wrote:   > Phillip Helbig wrote:a > >  > > > Then there's perl. > > >. > > > $ perl -e print(2*2+1) > > > 5o > > > $o > > ' > > At that level, there is DCL itself:p > >  > > $ write sys$output 2*2+1 > > 5  > > $  > >  > > :-)o >  > unfortunately you can't use " > $> write sys$output 40393200*512 > -793518080F > you get some very strange looking numbers and definately no floating > point.$ > $> write sys$output 40393.324*5.32I > %DCL-W-IVOPER, unrecognized operator in expression - check spelling and. > syntax	 >  \.324\r >  > But this works > $> type calc.pl; > $perl -e print('p1') > $> calc := @calc.pls > $> calc 40393200*512
 > 20681318400  > 
 > or even: > $> calc 40393.324*5.32 > 214892.48368  7 It would be nice to be able to assign the result of theo< calculation to a symbol (either as a string or, if in range,: as a numeric symbol), so you can use the result in further; calculations, store it for later, concatenate it with othera' stuff in an F$FAO expression, etc. etc.o  ; P.S.  Are numeric symbols stored as longs, or are they justa= strings that have all digits and are within the signed 32 bit3 range?   -- 9 John Santosr Evans Griffiths & Hart, Inc. 781-861-0670 ext 539   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 01 Jun 2002 02:54:28 GMT41 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> ! Subject: Re: Caculator within DCLs' Message-ID: <3CF83AE8.34A81B62@fsi.net>s   John Santos wrote: > [snip]= > P.S.  Are numeric symbols stored as longs, or are they justn? > strings that have all digits and are within the signed 32 bitu > range?   Signed longword.   $ a = %x7fffffff $ show symbol ao6   A = 2147483647   Hex = 7FFFFFFF  Octal = 17777777777 $ say f$fao( "!UL", a ) 
 2147483647 $ a1= f$fao( "!UL", a )o $ sh symbol a1   A1 = "2147483647"  $ a = a + 1i $ show symbol as7   A = -2147483648   Hex = 80000000  Octal = 20000000000w $ a1= f$fao( "!UL", a )y $ sh symbol a1   A1 = "2147483648"a $ say f$fao( "!UL", a )g
 2147483648   -- i David J. Dachteran dba DJE Systemst http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/,   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 21:01:46 +0200j- From: Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@Free.fr> F Subject: Re: Can anyone please explain this strange DECnet behaviour ?' Message-ID: <3CF7C89A.72A75CFE@Free.fr>a   Andrew Rycroft wrote:e >  ../..8A > Any clarification would be welcome. I am using DECnet/OSI v7.3.V  6 My answer: You gave yourself the answer (nearly). Try:  3 $ mc ncl flush session control naming cache entry *g   and, bingo!o Magic? No. M "someone" (who probably did not come from DECnet IV Engineering) decided thatiM DECnet Minus parameters should stay in cache 60 minutes. So your changes weretG not reflected. The above Flush conand purges the DECnet database cache.f   (no flame, no comment)  
 Opzatelps.   D. -- r2   ------------------------------------------------2 MORANDI Consultants  http://Didier.Morandi.Free.fr0   19 chemin de la Butte, 31400 Toulouse, France.2 Tel.: +33 (0)6 7983 6418 - Fax: +33 (0)5 6154 19282 OpenVMS, APPLE, Computer Security, Migration plans2 --------------------------------------------------   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 22:13:45 +0200  From: Dirk Munk <munk@home.nl>F Subject: Re: Can anyone please explain this strange DECnet behaviour ?& Message-ID: <3CF7D979.3000107@home.nl>  H This may have been caused by old cache entries. (DECnet / OSI also uses 
 a cache !)   Regards,   Dirk   Andrew Rycroft wrote:e   >Hi, >iD >I had a system NODEA (1.61) which I migrated to a new OpenVMS AlphaE >with the same node name and address, and disconnected NODEA from the , >network. At this point everything was fine. >mC >I then renamed the old NODEA to NODEB (1.100)( with NET$CONFIGURE, C >SYSGEN parameters, and DECnet_Register), and reconnected it to the A >network. The system started up with no problems, and no reportede >errors. >o >BUT from NODEB if I do a  >$ SET HOST 61+ >It goes to the new NODEA which is correct.t >r >$ SET HOST 100  >Goes to NODEB >' >$ SET HOST NODEA  >Goes to the new NODEA >- >$ SET HOST NODEB 3 >Goes to the new NODEA, and I can't understand why.R2 >I have rebooted a number of times with no effect. > 2 >Then it just suddenly started working correctly.  >4@ >Any clarification would be welcome. I am using DECnet/OSI v7.3. >r >ThanksT >Andrewh >o   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 14:51:41 -0400i; From: "Brian Tillman" <tillman_brian@notnoone.notnohow.com>n9 Subject: Re: Can one filter node visibility with DECnet ?i" Message-ID: <3cf7c606@news.si.com>   >There are? Care to elucidate?   $ mcr ncp help set transmiti $ mcr ncp help set receive   ------------------------------  + Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 12:48:30 -0700 (PDT)n. From: Fabio Cardoso <fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br>F Subject: Re: China to launch cyber attacks soon, be on VMS or bye-bye!@ Message-ID: <20020531194830.76598.qmail@web20210.mail.yahoo.com>  1 Why americans are so paranoids ???? Poor chinese,  iranians...., You should look for their  "enemies" between2 the US militaries... they waste billion of dollars with2 these computer toys....this money should be useful, to finish the starving of the own americans.     Regardsv   FC e- --- Bob Ceculski <bob@instantwhip.com> wrote:l4 > if you are not on VMS, this should scare you, esp.
 > the last0 > paragraph for all you freebie os promoters ... >  >  > Chinese preparinga > new cyber-attacks:2 > U.S. defense, civilian computer networks at risk >  >jP -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Posted: May 31, 2002 > 1:00 a.m. Easternn >  > By Jon Dougherty >  2002 WorldNetDaily.com t > 1 > The Chinese military is preparing to launch newh > "exploratory"w1 > cyber-attacks against U.S. defense and civiliano > computer networks ando4 > systems as part of Beijing's continuing efforts to > level the playinga5 > field against the American military, according to at > noted intelligence > bulletin.t > 5 > Quoting Asian sources, the China Reform Monitor, oro	 > CRM  a 4 > publication of the American Foreign Policy Council > reported Wednesday1 > that the attacks are scheduled to take place in  > early summer.n > 6 > The publication said separate warnings came from the
 > CIA and ther6 > Institute for Strategic Studies, which is run by the > U.S. Army War,
 > College. > 1 > The latter "released a classified report on thep > subject as an early 1 > warning to the Defense Department, warning U.S.  > diplomats and 6 > law-enforcement agencies to be vigilant for attempts > by Chinese/ > student hackers to spread computer viruses toh > sensitive government3 > Internet sites sometime in early summer," the CRMl > reported.- > 6 > CIA officials told WND they could not comment on the
 > informationp6 > contained in the CRM report. But other China experts > have said for al. > few years that a "fear" of U.S. conventional > military might is causinge/ > the People's Liberation Army to press Chinese  > high-tech weapons 5 > developers to create such technologies and get them, > fielded as soon as2 > possible. And in the meantime, they say, Chinese > hackers have6 > attempted to "test" U.S. computer systems, sometimes > as a result of an  > international incident.a > . > "Three years ago, Chinese anger spilled into > cyberspace to protest ther3 > bombing of the Chinese Embassy in Belgrade," saidh > the CRM report. . > "Only a year ago, a successful Chinese cyber > [attack] knocked out the1 > White House's website for almost four hours. In  > addition, Chinese 2 > hackers defaced more than 660 sites in the U.S." > 4 > "China-loyal hackers defaced almost 1,000 websites > and launched a2 > distributed denial-of-service attack against the > White House and CIA 1 > during April 28-May 8, 2001," added iDefense, a  > private-industry > intelligence firm. > 0 > "Three hacker groups participated in the cyber > assault while the53 > Chinese government, at the very least, looked thec > other way: the2 > Hacker Union of China, China Eagle and the Green > Army Corps. The 6 > Hacker Union of China, also known as Honker Union of > China, was4 > credited with about half of the defacements," said > the iDefense > analysis.  > 2 > WorldNetDaily reported in March that the U.S. is > also working on the20 > development of cyber-warfare capabilities. But > officials arei, > tight-lipped about current U.S. abilities. > 1 > "There is not too much I can say about what ther > government does to4 > protect its computer systems other than assure you > of the fact that wec6 > have very extensive programs to protect our computer > systems," State20 > Department spokesman Richard Boucher said at a > briefing in April. > 5 > "We have a very active program that tries to ensureh > at any given4 > moment that we have security," he said. But at the > same time, "it's1 > one that is constantly preparing itself for anyt > threats that might	 > exist."w > 3 > David Isenberg, a senior analyst at Intellibridge. > Corporation, a6 > knowledge management and intelligence services firm, > says he believes0 > U.S. systems are vulnerable, but isn't sure of > China's capabilities.  > 5 > "Has China actually created offensive programs, who- > knows?" he tolda5 > WorldNetDaily. "I'm sure they do research into it."  > 6 > But Richard Fisher, a senior fellow at The Jamestown > Foundation, aF0 > non-partisan think tank focusing on Russia and > China, believes Beijing 4 > is attempting to rapidly improve its cyber-warfare
 > techniques.i > 6 > "It's pretty scary," he told WND. "Both reports warn > us that the PLAx/ > is rapidly building a competent cyber-warfarex > capability." > 0 > He said China's huge population means "lots of > brains" can work on  > improving its capabilities.7 > 4 > "I think we should prepare for substantial attacks > against military1 > and key civilian networks in the event of a PLAh > strike against > Taiwan," Fisher said.a > 0 > "No matter how much we try to make our systems > secure, there will3 > always be the possibility of strikes," especially  > from within, hew > added. > 0 > He said because of contractors who tend to use > low-bid labor to0 > service defense computers and those of private > businesses, U.S.3 > systems will be at risk of internal sabotage fromt > operatives loyal toD > China. > 2 > "How many times all over the world are our vital > computer systems5 > being upgraded by the lowest-cost bidder?" he said.y     =====u ========================== Fbio dos Santos Cardoso OpenVMS System Manager Rio de Janeiro - Brazil, fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br ==========================  2 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!?0 Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.como   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 21:08:11 +0200)- From: Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@Free.fr>-# Subject: Re: Console graphics resetD' Message-ID: <3CF7CA1C.20534409@Free.fr>.   <ESC>(0 turns on graphics mode <ESC>(B turns it off   JR McKenzie wrote: > K > How do you get the console back into graphics mode after it has switch to-H > character cell and is no longer functional? There used to be a control1 > sequence if I remember right....senior moments.   > any help would be appreciated.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 21:07:06 +0200g- From: Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@Free.fr>v) Subject: Re: Creating ACEs from a program ' Message-ID: <3CF7C9DB.73EE8396@Free.fr>    Fortran (more or less :-)e   ../..,_ status = lib$do_command("$ set file/acl=(IDENTIFIER=INTERACTIVE,ACCESS=READ) SYS$LOGIN:FOO.LIS"a2 if (not status) then call lib$signal(%val(status)) ../..    D.  
 Joe wrote: > H > Trying to create an ACE entry on a file from a program (and not pass aE > DCL SET SEC command through LIB$SPAWN). Looking at the fine manualslE > and I'm thinking some calls to $PARSE_ACL, $SET_SECURITY, and maybeu > $FORMAT_ACL are in order.v > = > Must admit I'm finding the fine manuals a bit obtuse on theaG > descriptions of these services (and how ever they decided to list thecC > "related services" sections). Anyway... did a search on Google...P? > found a few dozen posts from others complaining about how thehC > documentation on the above services is... a bit obtuse. Found one C > (post) from Hoff about an example that he had posted to c.o.v (?)eF > going back about 5 years but couldn't find it in Google... Found oneF > post from Arne to some FTP examples (C, Pascal, FORTRAN) that hintedB > they might be relavent but the link was broken and didn't see an9 > "examples" section (of any kind) at his current site...y > H > Anyone out there willing to share a simple example? Say something that > creates something like:  > & > (IDENTIFIER=INTERACTIVE,ACCESS=READ) > % > on something like SYS$LOGIN:FOO.LIS-   ------------------------------  , Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 22:27:37 +0200 (CEST): From: "Gotfryd Smolik, VMS lists" <gotfryd@stanpol.com.pl>) Subject: Re: Creating ACEs from a programlI Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0205312224580.2644-100000@irys.stanpol.com.pl>d  * On Fri, 31 May 2002, Didier Morandi wrote:   >+Fortran (more or less :-)e >+ >+../.. * >+status = lib$do_command("$ set file/acl= [...]aJ >+> Trying to create an ACE entry on a file from a program (and not pass a+ >+> DCL SET SEC command through LIB$SPAWN).p  G  Really, not a "spawn" but probably the requestor will NOT immediatellyt terminate our code... ;)    Regards - Gotfryd   -- cE =====================================================================.F $ ON F$ERROR("LANGUAGE","ENGLISH","IN_MESSAGE").GT.F$ERROR("NORMAL") - 		THEN EXCUSE/OBJECT=MEp. $!                        GS@stanpol.zabrze.plE =====================================================================    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 20:21:35 -0400i' From: Howard S Shubs <howard@shubs.net>a) Subject: Re: Creating ACEs from a program < Message-ID: <howard-24620E.20213531052002@enews.newsguy.com>  ' In article <3CF7C9DB.73EE8396@Free.fr>,n/  Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@Free.fr> wrote:e   > Fortran (more or less :-)  >  > ../..tO > status = lib$do_command("$ set file/acl=(IDENTIFIER=INTERACTIVE,ACCESS=READ)   > SYS$LOGIN:FOO.LIS"4 > if (not status) then call lib$signal(%val(status)) > ../..   : In general, people like being able to -execute- that IF.  I LIB$DO_COMMAND() never returns.  It has to be the last statement in your o program.  C I put some code together several months ago.  I forget if I got it mE working or not.  It's at work.  I'll see if I can cut it loose.  OP: P( e-mail me directly at hshubs@iso-ne.com.   -- l# "Run in circles, scream and shout!"t I hope you have good backups!i) Are there any more networked SJFs around?p   ------------------------------    Date: 31 May 2002 14:12:44 -0700& From: jordan@ccs4vms.com (Rich Jordan)7 Subject: Data redundancy options for 3000 foot distance = Message-ID: <cc5619f2.0205311312.6803db8b@posting.google.com>c  D Two sites, about 3000' apart, single mode dark fiber, multiple pairsB available, with connecting equipment to be determined based on the following need.   F Looking for a 'primary' site with a DS20e box and local storage, and aF 'backup' site with a DS10 and equivalent storage, running OpenVMS V7.3D (or newer) and applications that are mostly based on RMS  and Oracle@ Codasyl DBMS (used to be DEC's).  The backup site will be a 'hotD standby', not used unless the main goes down, and in that case wouldB still see less load (hence the smaller system).  An outage must beF assumed to incapacitate an entire site, not just the server, so havingE all storage at one site (on fiber) is not acceptable.  Ideal would berE 100% same time data consistency across the link, but price may decidelF on a 'slower' method that might require some manner of recovery on the@ backup site before it goes live.  This is not a large data site;C initial plans for a standalone server had 6 each 18GB spindles, andt/ actual current data usage is around 24GB total.s  8 Depending on the capabilities and bandwidth of the fiber= communications, one option might be to cluster and use volumeeF shadowing.  That leaves us with a 'symmetrical' 2 node cluster withoutF redundant quorum disk access (since you can't shadow the quorum disk),C so the 'backup' system has to be a 'slave' node with fewer votes inoB order to have a safe/survivable cluster where the primary node can+ survive the loss of the backup site/server.e  B Our lowball option is have the two sites standalone with a nightlyE 'batch update' of the backup site.  Much cheaper.  Alternatives wouldaE involve significant modifications to existing programs and procedureseE to (perhaps) involve some kind of journaling that could be applied toHB the backup at more frequent intervals.  I do not believe an option@ that involves significant software overhauls will be considered.  A I do not have experience with fiber channel or equivalent storageeE technologies.  Assuming appropriate equipment is available to connectaC a SAN across the fiber, what types of equipment would we be lookingrE for?  I've used HSZ controllers on standalone and shared-bus systems, C but never the HSG units; do they provide any capability to 'mirror'c across the distance involved?n  A Any recommendation on good reading material to get up to speed oncE (OpenVMS compatible) fiber storage would also be appreciated.  Once IrA get the shadowing items corrected (earlier post) I'll be perusingaC compaq.com anyway, but it'd be nice to get targetted on the meat of  the matter.t    Mining Usenet for 'new' stuff...   Rich Jordanr   ------------------------------    Date: 31 May 2002 21:55:34 -0600+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young)h; Subject: Re: Data redundancy options for 3000 foot distance 3 Message-ID: <WFTNcmNGm1Ls@eisner.encompasserve.org>L  f In article <cc5619f2.0205311312.6803db8b@posting.google.com>, jordan@ccs4vms.com (Rich Jordan) writes:F > Two sites, about 3000' apart, single mode dark fiber, multiple pairsD > available, with connecting equipment to be determined based on the > following need.r >   @ 	Who "owns" the fibre?  Private point to point between buildings; 	on campus?  (Preliminary question, I have set something upl 	at that 3000 foot distance.)r  6 http://kwel.biz.uiowa.edu/datacomm/Group%20A/fiber.htm  B 	Using multimode and appropriate GBICs you can hit 3000 feet easy.A 	If you stick to the dark fibre stuff + SAN, you get into DWDM ore< 	CWDM.  It looks like heavy stuff, i.e. better get services:  d http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=6ec1251e.0204180655.7833229d%40posting.google.com&output=gplain  G 	Far simpler would be to grab fibre pairs (assuming you own them, point > 	of first question) and create dual-fibre paths between sites, 	many examples of that here:  > http://www.openvms.compaq.com/openvms/fibre/fc_hbvs_dtc_wp.pdf  8 > Assuming appropriate equipment is available to connectE > a SAN across the fiber, what types of equipment would we be lookingp > for?    E 	Keep costs down, starter SAN would be the cheaper 8 or 16 port OEMedn< 	Brocades, part numbers at work.  Number of GBICs, HSG80s at< 	either end (cheaper than HSV for sure and it looks like you+ 	have a fairly "small" setup - no offense).   A > I've used HSZ controllers on standalone and shared-bus systems,sE > but never the HSG units; do they provide any capability to 'mirror'a > across the distance involved?   ? 	Absolutely.  You would of course want to use Host-based Volume @ 	Shadowing.  I'm not being smart, it is exactly what I am doing.F 	Every transaction hits both sites. AND best of all with HBVS, at thatE 	distance you will easily be able to read from both shadowset membersm: 	(local or remote).  You have twice the read IO througput.  = 	I suppose you could also use DRM such that HSGs replicate totF 	remote site synchronously, but you are looking at rev of HSG firmwareB 	that costs and additional management issues.  Personally, I wouldB 	let HBVS do the work.  The DRM option could help helpless OSes as 	an upside.r  , 	Depending on budget, you have many options.   				Rob    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 16:51:08 -0400e% From: JF Mezei <jfmezei@videotron.ca>e. Subject: Re: F$PARSE equivalent in a program ?, Message-ID: <3CF7E23B.CB0C90D4@videotron.ca>   Jan-Erik Sderholm wrote:  > @ > Se the $PARSE system service in the "OpenVMS Record Management > Services Reference Manual on  M Thanks. I had forgotten to look into HELP RMS to see those services (I always- forget that part of help).   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 15:04:33 -0500b+ From: Chuck Aaron <caaron@ceris.purdue.edu>n Subject: fortran/ Message-ID: <3CF7D751.B2A36EA@ceris.purdue.edu>e  F Does anyone have a copy of a sequential read fortran program that willE read the one file and compare the entries to another and spit out thee diff?3   Thanks   John   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 13:20:29 -0700:+ From: "Barry Treahy, Jr." <Treahy@mmaz.com>S Subject: Re: fortran' Message-ID: <3CF7DB0D.6010803@mmaz.com>m  E Why don't you just use the difference command?  Anyway, this is very nH basic fortran coding that if you have a compiler, you should be able to H write in less than a dozen lines of code...  You're not dodging a class  assignment are you ? :-)   Barryr   Chuck Aaron wrote:  G >Does anyone have a copy of a sequential read fortran program that will F >read the one file and compare the entries to another and spit out the >diff? >l >Thankse >  >Johno >s >. >    >    -- s  @ Barry Treahy, Jr  *  Midwest Microwave  *  Vice President & CIO   A E-mail: Treahy@mmaz.com * Phone: 480/314-1320 * FAX: 480/661-7028-   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 15:35:19 -0500 + From: Chuck Aaron <caaron@ceris.purdue.edu>r Subject: Re: fortran0 Message-ID: <3CF7DE87.73F899F2@ceris.purdue.edu>  F No,...no class assignment. I have 884 8 digit records in one text fileA (i.e. px000001) and want to compare it against another file (i.e.fD px000001) with similar entries but only 566 total. I need to compareE the orig to the 566 total and list the one's that do not match. Sure,aE I can write a quick program but I'd like to see how this is done witht the diff command.    Thanks,c Chucke   "Barry Treahy, Jr." wrote: > F > Why don't you just use the difference command?  Anyway, this is veryI > basic fortran coding that if you have a compiler, you should be able totI > write in less than a dozen lines of code...  You're not dodging a classh > assignment are you ? :-) >  > Barry  >  > Chuck Aaron wrote: > I > >Does anyone have a copy of a sequential read fortran program that will-H > >read the one file and compare the entries to another and spit out the > >diff? > >a	 > >Thanksv > >s > >Johne > >v > >e > >t > >n >  > -- > A > Barry Treahy, Jr  *  Midwest Microwave  *  Vice President & CIOl > C > E-mail: Treahy@mmaz.com * Phone: 480/314-1320 * FAX: 480/661-7028t   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 23:26:24 GMTh' From: Jeffrey Chimene <jeff@nospam.net>a Subject: Re: fortran* Message-ID: <3CF805CC.D1422217@nospam.net>   Chuck Aaron wrote:  H > Does anyone have a copy of a sequential read fortran program that willG > read the one file and compare the entries to another and spit out thee > diff?p >  > Thanks >. > John   Sort of on-topic ;-}  I Here's a piece of perl code that floated in on the debian-user list. It'ssC an elegant solution to the original (debian-user) poster's problem.C  = >  How can i delete equal lines from a file, without sort it? G >  If i use sort -u, the command clean up the repeat lines, but sort my G > file (ascendent). I don't want this. I need my file in original form.r  .  perl -ne 'print unless $lines{$_}++' filename     --C   Dave Carrigan (dave@rudedog.org)            | Yow! ...I think I'mi	 having anlI   UNIX-Apache-Perl-Linux-Firewalls-LDAP-C-DNS | overnight sensation righta now!!0/   Seattle, WA, USA                            |e   http://www.rudedog.org/e     -- microsoft free by 2003   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 11:58:47 -0700o# From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com>U; Subject: RE: Freeing memory declared in C but freed in PL/I 9 Message-ID: <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIKEKAFBAA.tom@kednos.com>h   >-----Original Message----- 8 >From: Paul Winalski [mailto:prune@ZAnkh-Morpork.mv.com]$ >Sent: Friday, May 31, 2002 10:25 AM >To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com< >Subject: Re: Freeing memory declared in C but freed in PL/I >t > F >On 31 May 2002 06:42:45 -0700, bubbapig@hotmail.com (Jeffrey Cameron) >wrote:  > G >>Is there something special that should be done either when allocatingtG >>my memory in C or deallocating it in PL/I to make this work properly?e >vF >Don't even try.  It won't work.  You must deallocate the memory using@ >the deallocate routine corresponding to the routine you used toE >allocate it.  If you used malloc() to allocate, you must call free()eA >to delete.  I don't know if the VMS C run-tmie library documents C >its RTL entry points for use from other languages.  If so, you mayg< >be able to declare free() as DECC$FREE or something in yourC >PL/I code and call it directly.  By far your safest bet is to have A >your PL/I call a C routine, passing it the pointer, and have theb >C routine call free().' >a@ >For memory allocated using a C++ new statement, you really have; >no choice except to have your PL/I code call a C++ routineo >that performs a delete. >u8 >If you can, I'd advise using LIB$GET_VM and LIB$FREE_VM? >to allocate and free memory.  Those routines are callable fromh >any language.  B Of course, this is not portable code.  In this environment, betterK to use the language defined constructs and avoid any VMS specific routines.      >x >----------y >Remove 'Z' to reply by email. >x >---' >Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.p; >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).tA >Version: 6.0.363 / Virus Database: 201 - Release Date: 5/21/2002a >c --- & Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.: Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).@ Version: 6.0.363 / Virus Database: 201 - Release Date: 5/21/2002   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 11:58:46 -0700 # From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> ; Subject: RE: Freeing memory declared in C but freed in PL/Io9 Message-ID: <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIIEKAFBAA.tom@kednos.com>u  C You can't free up memory in a PL/I program which had been allocated C in C++, or C.  But why are you doing this in the first place?  PL/IrF has all the machineery in place to accomplish these tasks, you can use4 based, controlled or area (with offsets)  variables.   >-----Original Message-----o4 >From: Jeffrey Cameron [mailto:bubbapig@hotmail.com]# >Sent: Friday, May 31, 2002 6:43 AM= >To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com8 >Subject: Freeing memory declared in C but freed in PL/I >! >O >Hello all,e >fF >Another question on integrating PL/I and C/C++ code. In my C++ module2 >I declare an area of memory with a new statement. >) >e.g.  >i* >int count = rows * cols * slice * blocks; >R >int outptr = new int[count];s >-G >This array is then populated with values from a matrix and passed back(G >(in the form of an address) to the PL/I code. The PL/I code takes thiscC >address and puts this into a pointer in a structure describing the  >array.  >cD >My problem arises when the PL/I code tries to deallocate the memoryD >associated with that address. PL/I has a based variable of the sameC >dimensions as the array which was allocated (rows * cols * slice *rG >blocks) and then sets that based variable to point to the address (notgC >sure if im using the right terminology here, im not much of a PL/IsE >programmer) of my matrix array. When the FREE statement is called itNA >generates a PL/I VIRMEMDEAL runtime error and kills the program.l >iF >Is there something special that should be done either when allocatingF >my memory in C or deallocating it in PL/I to make this work properly? >m >Thanks in advance >  >---' >Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.g; >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).AA >Version: 6.0.363 / Virus Database: 201 - Release Date: 5/21/2002  >i ---u& Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.: Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).@ Version: 6.0.363 / Virus Database: 201 - Release Date: 5/21/2002   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 18:22:42 GMTn2 From: "Sue Skonetski" <susan.skonetski@compaq.com>2 Subject: has anyone ported this opensource to VMS?2 Message-ID: <SbPJ8.30$_R4.388138@news.cpqcorp.net>   http://www.flightgear.orgu  / I am thinking this would be pretty cool on VMS.a   sueO   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 21:09:32 +0200d- From: Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@Free.fr>a6 Subject: Re: has anyone ported this opensource to VMS?' Message-ID: <3CF7CA6D.F784EC0F@Free.fr>h  M Sue, there is a very nice Flight Simulator running on VMS on the Freeware CD.    D.   Sue Skonetski wrote: >  > http://www.flightgear.org- > 1 > I am thinking this would be pretty cool on VMS.    ------------------------------    Date: 31 May 2002 19:19:27 -00004 From: Doc.Cypher <Use-Author-Address-Header@[127.1]>6 Subject: Re: has anyone ported this opensource to VMS?5 Message-ID: <20020531191927.4027.qmail@gacracker.org>a  C On Fri, 31 May 2002, Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@Free.fr> wrote:lN >Sue, there is a very nice Flight Simulator running on VMS on the Freeware CD. >  >D.a >+ >Sue Skonetski wrote:h >>   >> http://www.flightgear.org >> w2 >> I am thinking this would be pretty cool on VMS.  - I got a good laugh at the bottom of the page.   8 You'll see a mangled looking Windows logo which links to http://www.annoyances.orgE     Doc. -- ,6 The bigger the humbug, the better people will like it.K ~ Phineas Taylor Barnum.                             https://vmsbox.cjb.net=   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 18:34:57 -0400-% From: JF Mezei <jfmezei@videotron.ca>06 Subject: Re: has anyone ported this opensource to VMS?, Message-ID: <3CF7FA89.3F440C9F@videotron.ca>   Sue Skonetski wrote: >  > http://www.flightgear.orgu > 1 > I am thinking this would be pretty cool on VMS.d   Digital had it then....@  C Ever heard of FLIGHT ????? It has been on VMS for a long long time.s  G Perhaps the VMS engineers might be able to get CAE to donate old flight N simulator software dating from the times when they were a VMS shop before they dropped Digital as supplier ?e   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 01 Jun 2002 03:56:55 GMT 1 From: LESLIE@JRLVAX.HOUSTON.RR.COM (Jerry Leslie)u6 Subject: Re: has anyone ported this opensource to VMS?< Message-ID: <bCXJ8.174267$Q42.7817492@typhoon.austin.rr.com>  & JF Mezei (jfmezei@videotron.ca) wrote: : Sue Skonetski wrote: : >  : > http://www.flightgear.org! : > 3 : > I am thinking this would be pretty cool on VMS.o :  : Digital had it then....- : E : Ever heard of FLIGHT ????? It has been on VMS for a long long time.v : I : Perhaps the VMS engineers might be able to get CAE to donate old flight L : simulator software dating from the times when they were a VMS shop before $ : they dropped Digital as supplier ?  : Here's another "business reason" for the USB support   :-)  /     http://www.maximum3d.com/reviews/chyoke.htmn/     Maximum3D - CH Products USB Flight Sim Yoke   H --Jerry Leslie   leslie@clio.rice.edu  (my opinions are strictly my own)9   Note: leslie@jrlvax.houston.rr.com is invalid for emaile   ------------------------------  + Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 12:55:37 -0700 (PDT) . From: Fabio Cardoso <fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br>/ Subject: Re: Looking for a couple of volunteersh@ Message-ID: <20020531195537.77660.qmail@web20210.mail.yahoo.com>    OpenVMS 25 years ! I am 30 :-)))  * I want a prize too ! I know I am far from 2 the huge OpenVMS Market but I defend it in Brazil.  / I want a umbrella, bouncing ball, T-shirt, pen,y' or a badge cord ! ! ! Happy birthday...  :-)))    Fabioe5 --- Sue Skonetski <susan.skonetski@compaq.com> wrote:  > Dear Newsgroup,  > 5 > I am in the process of getting the session list forh > ETS/CETS/DECUS 2002 in > St.Louis.t > 4 > I am looking for aprox 5 volunteers to look at the > list of sessions I havef6 > so far and let me know if I am missing something you > would really like to > see. > . > Just so you know, we are planning on doing a > celebration for OpenVMS's 25 > anniversary in St.Louis. > - > Please send me mail susan.skonetski@hp.com.l >  > Warm Regards,v > Sueo >  >      =====a ========================== Fbio dos Santos Cardoso OpenVMS System Manager Rio de Janeiro - Brazilo fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br ==========================  2 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!?0 Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com    ------------------------------  + Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 12:56:34 -0700 (PDT)p. From: Fabio Cardoso <fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br>/ Subject: Re: Looking for a couple of volunteersh@ Message-ID: <20020531195634.12189.qmail@web20204.mail.yahoo.com>  % Is not time to CREATE AN OPENVMS LOGOs IN THE NEW HP ?????t   LOGO LOGO LOGO ! ! ! t   Fabio C.   =====o ========================== Fbio dos Santos Cardoso OpenVMS System Manager Rio de Janeiro - Braziln fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br ==========================  2 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!?0 Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.comV   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 15:00:42 -0500h+ From: Christopher Smith <csmith@amdocs.com>e/ Subject: RE: Looking for a couple of volunteersoJ Message-ID: <7E008308CD77154485FEF878168D078E017846C9@CMIMAIL1.amdocs.com>   --=_IS_MIME_Boundary Content-Type: text/plain;- 	charset="iso-8859-1"    > -----Original Message-----7 > From: Fabio Cardoso [mailto:fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br]y  ' > Is not time to CREATE AN OPENVMS LOGOD > IN THE NEW HP ?????e >  > LOGO LOGO LOGO ! ! ! c  2 .. or they could just use the shark, maybe with a   |d|i|g|i|t|a|l| under it. :)   Chris     ! Christopher Smith, Perl Developerm Amdocs - Champaign, IL   /usr/bin/perl -e '? print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n");n 'e  r --=_IS_MIME_Boundary) Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-asciii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit  Content-Disposition: inlineg  U -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------r  C The information contained in this message is proprietary of Amdocs,s  1 protected from disclosure, and may be privileged.g  N The information is intended to be conveyed only to the designated recipient(s)  L of the message. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient,  P you are hereby notified that any dissemination, use, distribution or copying of   ? this communication is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. e  N If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately  > by replying to the message and deleting it from your computer.  
 Thank you.  U -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------K   --=_IS_MIME_Boundary--   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 16:49:51 -0400.% From: JF Mezei <jfmezei@videotron.ca>n/ Subject: Re: Mark Gorham's Beer Bash in Readingu, Message-ID: <3CF7E1EF.1F641103@videotron.ca>   Alan Greig wrote:o@ > That would have required me to catch the 17:20 from Reading toC > Paddington then the Heathrow Express arriving terminal 1 at 18:33d   Excuses, Excuses.   K As our official ambassador to the beer bash, it was your duty to stay untilIN Gorham was sufficiently inebriated to tell all. It was expected that you wouldJ stay overnight at take an early flight to work. You have royally failed in your duties....t  / :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) ;-) ;-) ;-)    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 16:52:15 -0400 % From: JF Mezei <jfmezei@videotron.ca>o/ Subject: Re: Mark Gorham's Beer Bash in Readinge, Message-ID: <3CF7E27F.6C7AE34C@videotron.ca>   Nic Clews wrote:3 > The bar closed at 5 and we got chucked out sober.     K Shirley the group went to another pub for a meal and finish the discussions  over even more beer ?-   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 16:54:44 -0400i% From: JF Mezei <jfmezei@videotron.ca>F/ Subject: Re: Mark Gorham's Beer Bash in ReadingF, Message-ID: <3CF7E313.A8CCB231@videotron.ca>   Nic Clews wrote:P > > 2- Any information on how/why Stallard put the "we want VMS users to migrate > > to HP-UX" statement ?a > I > Out of context again. It was explained that Stallard came from the UNIX J > camp, so he's bound to be a little biased, but I understand the error of+ > his ways has now been pointed out to him,i  J I am more concerned about why the error of his ways was not pointed to himG BEFORE his document was mad public, and why the question wasn't removed 7 alltogether. Gorham doesn't sound too credible on this.r   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 17:03:45 -0400-% From: JF Mezei <jfmezei@videotron.ca>0/ Subject: Re: Mark Gorham's Beer Bash in ReadingS, Message-ID: <3CF7E530.19040BBE@videotron.ca>   Alan Greig wrote: G > Yet Gartner, The Aberdeen Group and the Meta Group were in doubt. AndaD > still are. Rightly or wrongly we pay enormous amounts in corporateF > subscriptions to Gartner and our IT Directors and CIOs pay attention > to these reports.u  " It could be a matter of semantics.  J It is reasonably sure that the engineers will complete the port of the VMS operating system.a  K Where I am not so sure is how much of the layered products will get ported,JE and most importantly, when customers show that they have no immediateeL intentions to move to a slower platform, it may not make sense to productizeM VMS on IA64. It would be more cost effective to keep it on the shelve and not1D have to support yet another platform, until IA64 becomes attractive.   ------------------------------    Date: 01 Jun 2002 09:55:24 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>/ Subject: Re: Mark Gorham's Beer Bash in Reading 0 Message-ID: <87wutj69v7.fsf@k9.prep.synonet.com>  ' Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net> writes:n  A > But Mark was left in little doubt that we need no more negativenF > surprises. Everyone is watching closely. And someone needs to shutupF > Capellas. I guess he has allies from HP-UX engineering on this front > now.  I Should apoint him county manager for Kashmire. This would either stop the H conflict when every one, pakistani, indian or terrorist left in discust, or have him nuked.   -- n< Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.t@                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 01 Jun 2002 03:39:08 GMT L From: winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU ("Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr")/ Subject: Re: Mark Gorham's Beer Bash in Reading-8 Message-ID: <00A0EC6B.AD54A843@SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>  _ In article <87wutj69v7.fsf@k9.prep.synonet.com>, Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com> writes:2( >Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net> writes: >oB >> But Mark was left in little doubt that we need no more negativeG >> surprises. Everyone is watching closely. And someone needs to shutupeG >> Capellas. I guess he has allies from HP-UX engineering on this frontp >> now.e >cJ >Should apoint him county manager for Kashmire. This would either stop theI >conflict when every one, pakistani, indian or terrorist left in discust,i >or have him nuked.o  G I hope you're talking Capellas, not Gorham.  It's a little unclear fromu context.   -- Alans  O ===============================================================================u0  Alan Winston --- WINSTON@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDUM  Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056aM  Physical mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 69, PO BOX 4349, STANFORD, CA  94309-0210tO ===============================================================================i   ------------------------------    Date: 01 Jun 2002 07:42:41 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>N Subject: Re: Memo: Re: Another UK-based VMS System Manager looking for work...0 Message-ID: <87sn477uku.fsf@k9.prep.synonet.com>  ! Roy Omond <Roy@Omond.net> writes:-  > > Problem with VMS is that it requires so few staff to keep itD > running.  Better to have a small number of stars than a whole herd( > of MCSE's and a whole lot cheaper too.  E Tell me about it! In the mid 90s I was asked to put in for a contractmD to do some work on a Vax. It had been runing for `some time' and wasE know to be a bit off its peak. As far as I got to know, they wanted ai< total detailed list of what someone was going to do, and theF charges. With out anyone seeing the system. From contacts I heard thatD they stopped after spending over $10k on head hunting and nothing on sorting the system.c  C Anyway, about 18 months - 2 years later, they replaced the 750 witht) a bunch of PCs, and they ran even slower.t  G (I *know* it had never had a backup-restore since the RA81 was replaced) in about 86-87!!)m   -- i< Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.h@                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 19:05:03 GMTL From: danco@pebble.org& Subject: Re: MntVerifyTimeout Question- Message-ID: <slrnaffj3m.6go.danco@pebble.org>   3 In article <7vwIGHq4Gc5b@eisner.encompasserve.org>,u briggs@encompasserve.org wrote:s  9 > In extreme cases, system reboot is the easiest way out.   L Unfortunately, my experience is that most of the time it's the only way out. Just my luck I guess.i   - Dans   ------------------------------   Date: 31 May 2002 19:51:23 GMT1 From: JONESD@er6.eng.ohio-state.edu (David Jones)m& Subject: Re: MntVerifyTimeout Question: Message-ID: <ad8k7r$iif$1@charm.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>  F In message <slrnaffj3m.6go.danco@pebble.org>, danco@pebble.org writes:: >> In extreme cases, system reboot is the easiest way out. > M >Unfortunately, my experience is that most of the time it's the only way out.r >Just my luck I guess.  L I don't think I've ever been able to do a standard dismount on a disk that'sE had a mount verify timeout.  A dismount/abort, however, almost alwaysuG works unless you've previously tried a regular dismount on that volume.o      < David L. Jones               |      Phone:    (614) 292-6929- Ohio State University        |      Internet:eL 140 W. 19th St. Rm. 231a     |               jonesd@er6s1.eng.ohio-state.edu: Columbus, OH 43210           |               vman+@osu.edu  1 Disclaimer: I'm looking for marbles all day long.O   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 18:00:27 -0400n% From: JF Mezei <jfmezei@videotron.ca>e Subject: Re: Mobile printing. , Message-ID: <3CF7F276.E5EC1BEB@videotron.ca>   Andrew Robinson wrote:M > I have a number of dialup Laptop users connecting in and using a mixture of M > Powerterm and Reflection 2 emulators to access a text/VT220 driven package.t  K > I need if possible to be able to setup a generic printer queue which will 6 > print back to the connected PC to a default printer.  I Can't do this. The printer queue will want dedicated access to the serial M port, and while the laptop is connected, there is an interactive session that ! has control over the serial port.t  N What you can however do is simply copy the report to the serial port while theN laptops terminal emulation has set itself to print the data coming through the
 serial port. i  S There are escape sequences you can use to trigger comforming VT emulation to print.I  4 Autoprint mode:  on: <CSI> ? 5 i    off: <CSI> ? 4 i  3 Printer controller:  on <CSI> 5 i   off:  <CSI> 4 iI  9 CSI is either the CSI character or combination of <ESC> [-  D Printer controller "freezes" the terminal while the printing happensN (terminal's screen does not display the data going to the printer). Auto-printB mode will have the terminal display the data as it is printing it.    L Another , perhaps more efficient,  method is to use a file transfer protocolL to transfer the report to the laptop's drive and then once the connection isI finished, the user can print it. (Remember that printers don't print veryoG fast, so if you print directly while connected to the host, your dialupe connections will last longer.n   ------------------------------    Date: 31 May 2002 22:05:27 -00004 From: Doc.Cypher <Use-Author-Address-Header@[127.1]> Subject: Re: Mobile printing.35 Message-ID: <20020531220527.9279.qmail@gacracker.org>r  ; On Fri, 31 May 2002, JF Mezei <jfmezei@videotron.ca> wrote:r >Andrew Robinson wrote:3N >> I have a number of dialup Laptop users connecting in and using a mixture ofN >> Powerterm and Reflection 2 emulators to access a text/VT220 driven package. >gL >> I need if possible to be able to setup a generic printer queue which will7 >> print back to the connected PC to a default printer.  >mJ >Can't do this. The printer queue will want dedicated access to the serialN >port, and while the laptop is connected, there is an interactive session that" >has control over the serial port.  K If they're using dialup with the referenced terminal emulators then they'lluD be using TCP/IP. This isn't a dumb terminal or hardwired connection.I Anyway, Andrew already mentioned that it *is* possible with one queue peroK potential IP address, he's just looking for a way to cut down on the number ! of queues active at any one time.o     Doc. -- i6 The bigger the humbug, the better people will like it.K ~ Phineas Taylor Barnum.                             https://vmsbox.cjb.net    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 21:12:55 -0400-1 From: Michael Austin <maustin@firstdbasource.com>  Subject: Re: Mobile printing.o2 Message-ID: <3CF81F97.9C5E6DF6@firstdbasource.com>   JF Mezei wrote:- >  > Andrew Robinson wrote:O > > I have a number of dialup Laptop users connecting in and using a mixture ofkO > > Powerterm and Reflection 2 emulators to access a text/VT220 driven package.o > M > > I need if possible to be able to setup a generic printer queue which willr8 > > print back to the connected PC to a default printer. > K > Can't do this. The printer queue will want dedicated access to the serialiO > port, and while the laptop is connected, there is an interactive session that0# > has control over the serial port.S > P > What you can however do is simply copy the report to the serial port while theP > laptops terminal emulation has set itself to print the data coming through the > serial port. > U > There are escape sequences you can use to trigger comforming VT emulation to print.h > 6 > Autoprint mode:  on: <CSI> ? 5 i    off: <CSI> ? 4 i > 5 > Printer controller:  on <CSI> 5 i   off:  <CSI> 4 io > ; > CSI is either the CSI character or combination of <ESC> [l > F > Printer controller "freezes" the terminal while the printing happensP > (terminal's screen does not display the data going to the printer). Auto-printD > mode will have the terminal display the data as it is printing it. > N > Another , perhaps more efficient,  method is to use a file transfer protocolN > to transfer the report to the laptop's drive and then once the connection isK > finished, the user can print it. (Remember that printers don't print very-I > fast, so if you print directly while connected to the host, your dialup  > connections will last longer.>  D I have a command procedure that turns the printer port on, types theF file and then turns the printer port off. Works great with Reflections6 and a free emulator called TeraTerm (also does SSH).    
 It's symbol? M# $pp :== @sys$login:printer_port.com    $! Printer_Port.comn7 $    ESC[0,7] == %x1B                   ! Define EscapedA $    POFF = "''ESC'[4i''ESC'[?4i"       ! Define Printer Port Off.@ $    PON  = "''ESC'[5i''ESC'[?5i"       ! Define Printer Port On> $Write sys$output pon                   ! Turn Printer Port ONC $type 'p1'                              ! Send TEXT file to printero? $write sys$output poff                  ! Turn Printer Port OFFt $EXITu   -- l Regards,  7 Michael Austin            Registered Linux User #261163d7 First DBA Source, Inc.    http://www.firstdbasource.comS Sr. Consultant 704-947-1089 (Office)a 704-236-4377 (Mobile)    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 21:14:04 -0400 1 From: Michael Austin <maustin@firstdbasource.com>i Subject: Re: Mobile printing.n2 Message-ID: <3CF81FDC.2D342017@firstdbasource.com>   Michael Austin wrote:_ >  > JF Mezei wrote:o > >Y > > Andrew Robinson wrote:Q > > > I have a number of dialup Laptop users connecting in and using a mixture of-Q > > > Powerterm and Reflection 2 emulators to access a text/VT220 driven package.b > >vO > > > I need if possible to be able to setup a generic printer queue which will2: > > > print back to the connected PC to a default printer. > > M > > Can't do this. The printer queue will want dedicated access to the serialaQ > > port, and while the laptop is connected, there is an interactive session thatt% > > has control over the serial port.a > >nR > > What you can however do is simply copy the report to the serial port while theR > > laptops terminal emulation has set itself to print the data coming through the > > serial port. > >.W > > There are escape sequences you can use to trigger comforming VT emulation to print.h > >p8 > > Autoprint mode:  on: <CSI> ? 5 i    off: <CSI> ? 4 i > >l7 > > Printer controller:  on <CSI> 5 i   off:  <CSI> 4 i8 > >0= > > CSI is either the CSI character or combination of <ESC> [y > >eH > > Printer controller "freezes" the terminal while the printing happensR > > (terminal's screen does not display the data going to the printer). Auto-printF > > mode will have the terminal display the data as it is printing it. > >yP > > Another , perhaps more efficient,  method is to use a file transfer protocolP > > to transfer the report to the laptop's drive and then once the connection isM > > finished, the user can print it. (Remember that printers don't print very K > > fast, so if you print directly while connected to the host, your dialupn! > > connections will last longer.s > F > I have a command procedure that turns the printer port on, types theH > file and then turns the printer port off. Works great with Reflections6 > and a free emulator called TeraTerm (also does SSH). >  > It's symbol?% > $pp :== @sys$login:printer_port.comb >  > $! Printer_Port.comg9 > $    ESC[0,7] == %x1B                   ! Define Escape C > $    POFF = "''ESC'[4i''ESC'[?4i"       ! Define Printer Port OfftB > $    PON  = "''ESC'[5i''ESC'[?5i"       ! Define Printer Port On@ > $Write sys$output pon                   ! Turn Printer Port ONE > $type 'p1'                              ! Send TEXT file to printer A > $write sys$output poff                  ! Turn Printer Port OFFh > $EXIT  >  > --
 > Regards, > 9 > Michael Austin            Registered Linux User #261163-9 > First DBA Source, Inc.    http://www.firstdbasource.com- > Sr. Consultant > 704-947-1089 (Office). > 704-236-4377 (Mobile)@   I forgot...   8 the good news is that it does not require a printer que. -- F Regards,  7 Michael Austin            Registered Linux User #261163 7 First DBA Source, Inc.    http://www.firstdbasource.comt Sr. Consultant 704-947-1089 (Office)e 704-236-4377 (Mobile)x   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 21:15:51 -0400r1 From: Michael Austin <maustin@firstdbasource.com>i* Subject: Re: Multinet, NFS and Sun Solaris2 Message-ID: <3CF82047.C5D04BA9@firstdbasource.com>   "news.spacelots.com" wrote:o > 5 > I am having a problem with a clients configuration:- > 
 > VMS7.1-2- > MultiNet NFS Configuration Utility V4.3(78)0 > SunOS 5.80 > L > When the exported device is mounted on the Sun box, the directory is long,L > the ls filenames turn to garbage.  Looks like some sort of buffer problem? >  > NFSCONFIG> show /fulle > Kernel-Mode file server.D > Number of RPC Transports:                 10 simultaneous requests6 > Size of duplicate request cache:         250 entries6 > File cache timer interval:                30 seconds6 > Read-Only flush age:                     180 seconds6 > Read/Write flush age:                     60 seconds6 > File info flush age:                    1200 seconds6 > Directory info flush age:                300 seconds6 > File info idle flush age:                600 seconds6 > Directory info idle flush age:           150 seconds3 > Use Directory Blocking ASTs for cache consistencyb. > Use File Blocking ASTs for cache consistency4 > Approximate text size threshold:      512000 bytes4 > Maximum cache files:                    3000 files6 > Maximum cache buffers:                   500 buffers7 > Maximum open channels:                    50 channelsd4 > Maximum file system files:              3000 files6 > Maximum file system buffers:             500 buffers7 > Maximum file system channels:             50 channelsh4 > Maximum Queued Removes:                   25 filesG > Seconds Before Writeback:                  0 seconds (writeback cachea > disabled)n >  > Any ideas? >  > Michael Austin   got it fixed...u -- u Regards,  7 Michael Austin            Registered Linux User #261163 7 First DBA Source, Inc.    http://www.firstdbasource.com  Sr. Consultant 704-947-1089 (Office)y 704-236-4377 (Mobile)s   ------------------------------    Date: 01 Jun 2002 07:52:21 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com> Subject: Re: No new Alpha salesr0 Message-ID: <87n0uf7u4q.fsf@k9.prep.synonet.com>  3 "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com> writes:   > > I know that the Naval Security Group has more than a passing: > interest in VMS. As does, or, did, the folks who run the= > communications system that links our submarine force to the- > landlubbers.  A What replaced IAS for the silos? Or is that a deep dark secret...p     -- o< Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.e@                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 19:01:53 GMTh) From: coroscant@hotmail.com (Christopher).( Subject: Re: Oh My God Help Me Please!!!1 Message-ID: <3cf7c881.2051430@news.dsl.pipex.com>   3 On Thu, 30 May 2002 18:39:57 +0200 (CEST), JF Mezei  <jfmezei@videotron.ca> wrote:e  ? >This morning during my first masturbation session of the day ItE >discovered my penis is covered with painful sores full of pus.  What,? >could this be?  Also my ass hurts really bad and my asshole ise >bleeding.  Please help me!e >a >Jean-Francois Mezei   That'll teach you.     Christopher, +++++++++++++++++++++++++ " "Who shall find a virtuous woman? " for her price is far above rubies"!                 Proverbs:31:10-12e   ------------------------------    Date: 01 Jun 2002 10:13:29 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>( Subject: Re: Oh My God Help Me Please!!!0 Message-ID: <87sn476912.fsf@k9.prep.synonet.com>  ' JF Mezei <jfmezei@videotron.ca> writes:t  @ > This morning during my first masturbation session of the day IF > discovered my penis is covered with painful sores full of pus.  What@ > could this be?  Also my ass hurts really bad and my asshole is > bleeding.  Please help me!  = Sorry, you are past help, this is both BOFB and Intel Inside.e   In the next life perhaps...t   -- n< Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda. @                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 18:19:45 GMTI# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>9 Subject: Re: Open Letter to HPJ Message-ID: <59PJ8.152197$ah_.136743@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>  8 "Rob Young" <young_r@encompasserve.org> wrote in message- news:9Kfk36OXT5G5@eisner.encompasserve.org...R >MA > I agree with much of what you say, but I do believe advertisingeC > should be targetted.  It is for other similar high-end OSes, i.e.dA > AS/400, mainframes and NSK and when was the last time you saw afD > Rolls-Royce, Lamborghini, etc. commercial on television?  They run+ > ads in targetted publications - I assume.a > A > A very good attempt to sway opinion was put together by a groupa? > that worked months formulating ideas.  That piece - penned bye@ > Bill Todd with great amount of input from others - is found at? > the Google link below.  Advertizing ideas among other things.n >o > Robd >e >hL http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=921fl3%24pdv%241%40pyrite.mv.net&output =gplainr    F As I see it, nothing has changed very much for the positive since thatG letter was penned - Alpha is dead, Itanic is slowly sinking through theuH warming polar ice cap, and Sun/IBM are still eating ComHpaq's lunch. TheK letter to Capellas should be resurrected, minor revisions made, given a newpG date, search-and-replace 'Compaq' for 'HP', address it to Carly and the J Board of Directors (one copy individually addressed to each so it can't be/ easily buried), and one copy to Walter Hewlett.o   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 21:04:22 +0200b- From: Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@Free.fr>- Subject: Re: Open Letter to HP' Message-ID: <3CF7C937.468AB8DD@Free.fr>u   Jason O'Donnell wrote: >  > To Whom It May Concern:f >  ../..c  N Give TNHP some time. After all, there are today more former DECcies at HP than in RIP COMPAQ.   D. --  2   ------------------------------------------------2 MORANDI Consultants  http://Didier.Morandi.Free.fr0   19 chemin de la Butte, 31400 Toulouse, France.2 Tel.: +33 (0)6 7983 6418 - Fax: +33 (0)5 6154 19282 OpenVMS, APPLE, Computer Security, Migration plans2 --------------------------------------------------   ------------------------------  + Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 13:01:02 -0700 (PDT) . From: Fabio Cardoso <fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br> Subject: Re: Open Letter to HP? Message-ID: <20020531200102.4657.qmail@web20202.mail.yahoo.com>u  0 it should come from a guy like Larry Ellison ( I doubt)0 or another great company with software developed. in/for OpenVMS  !!! We need an Ambassador with credetials.t   Regardso   FC i2 --- Jason O'Donnell <jodonnell@hrblock.com> wrote: > To Whom It May Concern:v > 1 > A company has an application, responsible for a  > significant portion of- > its gross revenue, that resides on a CompaqU > (formerly Digital) OpenVMS5 > platform.  The application uses many of the OpenVMSs > system services. e5 > Because the application uses these services, moving+ > the application to2 > a different operating system would be expensive. > * > With the recent acquisition of Compaq by > Hewlett-Packard (HP), I have5 > looked for information from HP regarding the future  > of OpenVMS.  I3 > recently read a "white paper" entitled HP Product: > Roadmaps from HP. 3 > This document contained only this one sentence ine > regard to OpenVMS: > 2 > HP also will deliver on the previously announced > Compaq OpenVMSi) > roadmap, including the port to Itanium.i > 5 > While it is heartening to know that HP will deliver  > on the Roadmap, a 6 > single sentence is hardly rousing support.  The fact > that thisr3 > sentence was placed under the UNIX section ratheri > than its own section/ > or at the very least placed with NonStop as at > high-availabilitys1 > operating system would indicate that the New HPe > management has no idea& > what OpenVMS is or its capabilities. > 5 > That lack of knowledge will inevitably continue thes > minimal marketinge5 > effort that OpenVMS has endured, reduce funds spent  > on development off3 > the system, and eventually lead to its stagnation  > and demise.  If 2 > OpenVMS technology will be "End-of-Lifed" by HP, > then the sooner we6 > know that the more proactive we can be in porting to > IBM hardware > running Linux. > 2 > In order for me to support and promote continued > investment in HP0 > OpenVMS products, I need to see the following:2 > 1. A press release from the CEO and other senior > corporate officers3 > highlighting the strengths of OpenVMS and statingn > that HP will investi3 > in marketing and development of OpenVMS as one ofs > its premier products > for the foreseeable future.e3 > 2. Major network television commercials promotingl
 > OpenVMS.4 > 3. Discussions with customers highlighting planned > or potential > OpenVMS enhancements.- >  > Jason O'Donnell11 > The opinions expressed above are my own and not  > necessarily the viewsl > of my employers.     =====M ========================== Fbio dos Santos Cardoso OpenVMS System Manager Rio de Janeiro - Brazilp fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br ==========================  2 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!?0 Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.comc   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 20:59:58 GMTn1 From: LESLIE@JRLVAX.HOUSTON.RR.COM (Jerry Leslie)c Subject: Re: Open Letter to HP< Message-ID: <ivRJ8.134671$9F5.7791659@typhoon.austin.rr.com>  , Rob Young (young_r@encompasserve.org) wrote: : Jason, : B : 	I agree with much of what you say, but I do believe advertisingD : 	should be targetted.  It is for other similar high-end OSes, i.e.C : 	AS/400, mainframes and NSK and when was the last time you saw a oF : 	Rolls-Royce, Lamborghini, etc. commercial on television?  They run , : 	ads in targetted publications - I assume. : - IBM runs TV commercials for their mainframes.w  F General Electric's TV commercials show their locomotive and jet engine	 products..  / The Union Pacific Railroad runs TV commercials ,  $    http://www.uprr.com/newsinfo/ads/    Building America Ad Campaigne     H   "For the last 140 years, Union Pacific has contributed to the buildingF    of a nation. Abraham Lincoln envisioned a transcontinental railroadI    that would connect America, east to west, contributing to the economic H    development, stability and security of the nation. And along with theE    development of a country, came the growth of one of America's moste    important companies.     tI    While we have long been aware of our significance to the prosperity ofqF    America, it's time to tell Union Pacific's story to the rest of the
    nation..."e    eI    We'll begin this effort in April 2002, through an advertising campaign B    using two television commercials narrated by actor Sam Elliott.  F    Majestic landscapes, filmed on Union Pacific tracks near Moab, UtahF    and Santa Maria, California, fill the screen as Mr. Elliott makes aF    connection between Union Pacific and this nation's way of life. TheI    overall message and theme for the campaign focuses on what the men andoA    women of Union Pacific have been working toward for almost 140e"    years... "Building America^SM."    e%    View Television Commercials Onlinel  G    Watch two 30-second television commercials in one video clip on yourg;    computer. Select your player and download resolution..."i    K VMS could stand exposure to a general public who thinks that all computing t4 is done on Microsoft/Intel-or-AMD and Apple systems.    H --Jerry Leslie   leslie@clio.rice.edu  (my opinions are strictly my own)9   Note: leslie@jrlvax.houston.rr.com is invalid for emailv   ------------------------------    Date: 31 May 2002 21:18:50 -00004 From: Doc.Cypher <Use-Author-Address-Header@[127.1]> Subject: Re: Open Letter to HP5 Message-ID: <20020531211850.8255.qmail@gacracker.org>   G On Fri, 31 May 2002, LESLIE@JRLVAX.HOUSTON.RR.COM (Jerry Leslie) wrote:T   <snip>  L >VMS could stand exposure to a general public who thinks that all computing 5 >is done on Microsoft/Intel-or-AMD and Apple systems.     G When you think of computers, you probably think of one of these [InsertP picture of PC].N  H You *know* how frustrating and unreliable this little box can be, but do7 you ever think of what big business and government use?   D You hope it's something that is reliable, something that's immune toK viruses, something that keeps out the hackers who might want a copy of your  credit report or tax return.  . You *want* them to be running OpenVMS systems.  6 OpenVMS from Hewlett Packard, computing you can trust.    G When I see that advert on CNN or BBC World I'll eat my hat (or at least  chew the edges of it!).2     Doc. --  6 The bigger the humbug, the better people will like it.K ~ Phineas Taylor Barnum.                             https://vmsbox.cjb.net>   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 18:32:42 -0400o% From: JF Mezei <jfmezei@videotron.ca>u Subject: Re: Open Letter to HP, Message-ID: <3CF7FA03.79FC26A1@videotron.ca>   Rob Young wrote:I >         I agree with much of what you say, but I do believe advertisinge >         should be targetted. q  M The goal of the requested advertising is not to increase sales, it is to give M credibility to HP's so-called commitments which customers don't trust becausea9 HP is unwilling to make those prominent and clear enough.i  K It is exactly because HP has been so reluctant to mention VMS openly duringtJ the 8 montsh of the merger that including VMS in a very public advertisingK campaign is very important, otherwise customers will continue to see VMS ashB the black sheep allowed to slowly starve to death in the basement.  I There is a complete disconnect between what HP's corporate levels say (or H don't say) and what the poor chaps at the Gorham/Skonetsky level say. NoH matter how often Gorham states that VMS is safe, customer will still seeM Compaq ignoring VMS and thus leaving the door wide opened for another June 25l type announcement.  H Carly, Curly and Winkler are seen and VMS killers and Windows lovers.  AG public advertising campaign that include VMS as a mainstream enterprisenI product for HP would go a long way to show that the Carly/Curly gang havei
 accepted VMS.t  N targetted advertising such as what happened during renaissance doesn't reflectL corporate policy, it only reflects the ability of Gorham to do small bits of" advertising with a limited budget.  F What is needed is proof that VMS is part of the corporate environment.  L Had Carly not been so careful in avoiding to mention VMS during the 8 monthsL where she mentioned every other OS, perhaps customers wouldn't be so cynical$ about HP's 2 line commitment on VMS.  L In fact, perhaps Gorham should send the message to his bosses that customersL distrust Carly, Curly and Winkler and that the onus is on them to prove thatU they feel VMS has a great potential for growth and no need to worry about its future.   J And for crying out loud, stop making those "4 year commitments", those areN dead-giveaways that after those 4 years, things will change. They should focusJ instead of telling customers they intend to grow the VMS market and marketL VMS. That would go one hell of a long way to tell customers VMS as a future.  H So far, all HP has done is tell customers that VMS will be supported forN exsiting customers for anotther few years. That tells customers that they willL eventually have to migrate to something else but that there is no hurry. And< this was also very obviosu in Stallard's original statement.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 19:29:56 -0400f% From: JF Mezei <jfmezei@videotron.ca>- Subject: Re: Open Letter to HP, Message-ID: <3CF80768.F5410108@videotron.ca>   Didier Morandi wrote:2P > Give TNHP some time. After all, there are today more former DECcies at HP than > in RIP COMPAQ.  I Are there any ex-decies at the very top ?  Carly, Curly, Winkler ? Any ofl those favourable to VMS ?m  N If Blackmore is so favourable to VMS, how come he allowed Stallard to spew outC and publish such garbage which was extremely obvous would hurt HP,s ! credibility with regards to VMS ?h  ? Sorry, but i do not see any support for VMS from the top of HP.k   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 01 Jun 2002 02:16:37 +0200  From: "B. Eckstein" <be@cli.de>n Subject: Re: Open Letter to HP# Message-ID: <3CF81265.80007@cli.de>   3 Terry C. Shannon schrub im Jahre 5/31/2002 5:34 PM:i > Hear, hear!!!! >  > Good going Jason!O > < > "Jason O'Donnell" <jodonnell@hrblock.com> wrote in message9 > news:9059bf6b.0205310725.73d173d4@posting.google.com...:  F >> OpenVMS technology will be "End-of-Lifed" by HP, then the sooner weD >> know that the more proactive we can be in porting to IBM hardware >> running Linux.i   *g* this is the best part :-)n  > Even those non-VMS-aware new HP managers shoud listen up here.& He named the three-letter-HPQ-enemy...   -- x  B.Eckstein, - mailto:be@epost.de   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 01 Jun 2002 01:10:51 GMTu# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>0 Subject: Re: Open Letter to HPH Message-ID: <vaVJ8.155004$ah_.6244@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>  : "Jason O'Donnell" <jodonnell@hrblock.com> wrote in message7 news:9059bf6b.0205310725.73d173d4@posting.google.com...c > To Whom It May Concern:R >vH > A company has an application, responsible for a significant portion ofH > its gross revenue, that resides on a Compaq (formerly Digital) OpenVMS > platform.    Refraind4 IBM & Sun: "Gluttons for punishment." (a capella(s))    : >The application uses many of the OpenVMS system services.H > Because the application uses these services, moving the application to2 > a different operating system would be expensive.   Refrain04 IBM & Sun: "Gluttons for punishment." (a capella(s))    G > With the recent acquisition of Compaq by Hewlett-Packard (HP), I haveeD > looked for information from HP regarding the future of OpenVMS.  IE > recently read a "white paper" entitled HP Product Roadmaps from HP.nF > This document contained only this one sentence in regard to OpenVMS:   Refraint4 IBM & Sun: "Gluttons for punishment." (a capella(s))    B > HP also will deliver on the previously announced Compaq OpenVMSTH > roadmap, including the port to Itanium. While it is heartening to knowB > that HP will deliver on the Roadmap, a single sentence is hardly > rousing support.   Refrains4 IBM & Sun: "Gluttons for punishment." (a capella(s))    F > The fact that this sentence was placed under the UNIX section ratherD > than its own section or at the very least placed with NonStop as a@ > high-availability operating system would indicate that the New@ > HP management has no idea what OpenVMS is or its capabilities.   Refrainc4 IBM & Sun: "Gluttons for punishment." (a capella(s))    G > That lack of knowledge will inevitably continue the minimal marketingrG > effort that OpenVMS has endured, reduce funds spent on development ofl? > the system, and eventually lead to its stagnation and demise.a   Refrain 4 IBM & Sun: "Gluttons for punishment." (a capella(s))    H > If OpenVMS technology will be "End-of-Lifed" by HP, then the sooner weC > know that the more proactive we can be in porting to IBM hardwaree > running Linux.  + Sun: "Hey wait a minute!!! Me too! Me too!"-   ------------------------------    Date: 31 May 2002 21:26:35 -0600+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young)G Subject: Re: Open Letter to HP3 Message-ID: <twh$8ayzC36U@eisner.encompasserve.org>f  p In article <ivRJ8.134671$9F5.7791659@typhoon.austin.rr.com>, LESLIE@JRLVAX.HOUSTON.RR.COM (Jerry Leslie) writes:. > Rob Young (young_r@encompasserve.org) wrote:
 > : Jason, > : D > : 	I agree with much of what you say, but I do believe advertisingF > : 	should be targetted.  It is for other similar high-end OSes, i.e.E > : 	AS/400, mainframes and NSK and when was the last time you saw a  H > : 	Rolls-Royce, Lamborghini, etc. commercial on television?  They run . > : 	ads in targetted publications - I assume. > :   / > IBM runs TV commercials for their mainframes.l  < 	Okay, I didn't know that.  I still don't ever recall seeingF 	a Rolls-Royce or Lamborhini commercial on commercial U.S. television.B 	The point is - for niche or vertical products - it is a very rare@ 	thing for the marketing folks to wander outside a narrow mediumA 	to impress upon the general population.  Direct marketing is ally@ 	the rage now and CRM is helping to narrow things.  Gone are theE 	days when we all get our mailboxes stuffed with flyers.  CommercialsID 	that run during Friends are way different then commercials that run
 	on MTV, etc.e   > M > VMS could stand exposure to a general public who thinks that all computing -6 > is done on Microsoft/Intel-or-AMD and Apple systems. >     	It would be a waste of money.    4 http://www.computerworld.com/services/mediakit/rates  E 	$21000 an ad page for black and white in ComputerWorld.  A whole lot 7 	more of them than 1 minute of network commercial time.t   				Robs   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 01 Jun 2002 03:12:06 GMTh1 From: LESLIE@JRLVAX.HOUSTON.RR.COM (Jerry Leslie)m Subject: Re: Open Letter to HP< Message-ID: <aYWJ8.137032$9F5.7857936@typhoon.austin.rr.com>  5 Doc.Cypher (Use-Author-Address-Header@[127.1]) wrote:pI : On Fri, 31 May 2002, LESLIE@JRLVAX.HOUSTON.RR.COM (Jerry Leslie) wrote:  :  : <snip> : N : >VMS could stand exposure to a general public who thinks that all computing 7 : >is done on Microsoft/Intel-or-AMD and Apple systems.r : I : When you think of computers, you probably think of one of these [Insert  : picture of PC].d : G : You *know* how frustrating and unreliable this little box can be, butt< : do you ever think of what big business and government use? : F : You hope it's something that is reliable, something that's immune toI : viruses, something that keeps out the hackers who might want a copy of o# : your credit report or tax return.n : 0 : You *want* them to be running OpenVMS systems. : 8 : OpenVMS from Hewlett Packard, computing you can trust. :  : I : When I see that advert on CNN or BBC World I'll eat my hat (or at leastt : chew the edges of it!).e :   C The problem with that ad is that it forces H-P to publically knock   its own Wintel Cartel products.p  C If Sun is lurking in this newsgroup, don't be surprised if they use-/ this general idea for one of their commercials.-    H --Jerry Leslie   leslie@clio.rice.edu  (my opinions are strictly my own)9   Note: leslie@jrlvax.houston.rr.com is invalid for email    ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 01 Jun 2002 03:14:18 GMTt1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>b Subject: Re: Open Letter to HP' Message-ID: <3CF83F91.2928BFBC@fsi.net>    Sue Skonetski wrote: >  > Jason, > B > Please send me your email address I am trying to send you email. > 	 > Thanks,t >  > Suen >  > susan.skonetski@hp.com > < > "Jason O'Donnell" <jodonnell@hrblock.com> wrote in message9 > news:9059bf6b.0205310725.73d173d4@posting.google.com...O > > To Whom It May Concern:i
 > > [snip]   Sue, h  , Again, many thanx for your on-going efforts.   -- t David J. Dachterai dba DJE Systemsh http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/o   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 01 Jun 2002 03:45:39 GMTf1 From: LESLIE@JRLVAX.HOUSTON.RR.COM (Jerry Leslie)e Subject: Re: Open Letter to HP< Message-ID: <DrXJ8.174264$Q42.7815963@typhoon.austin.rr.com>  , Rob Young (young_r@encompasserve.org) wrote:? : In article <ivRJ8.134671$9F5.7791659@typhoon.austin.rr.com>, o5 : LESLIE@JRLVAX.HOUSTON.RR.COM (Jerry Leslie) writes:m0 : > Rob Young (young_r@encompasserve.org) wrote: : > : Jason, : > : F : > : 	I agree with much of what you say, but I do believe advertisingH : > : 	should be targetted.  It is for other similar high-end OSes, i.e.G : > : 	AS/400, mainframes and NSK and when was the last time you saw a aJ : > : 	Rolls-Royce, Lamborghini, etc. commercial on television?  They run 0 : > : 	ads in targetted publications - I assume. : > :  : 1 : > IBM runs TV commercials for their mainframes.s : > : 	Okay, I didn't know that.  I still don't ever recall seeingH : 	a Rolls-Royce or Lamborhini commercial on commercial U.S. television.  K Me neither. I've read quite a few car magazines in my life, and have NEVER yL seen any ad for Ferrari, Rolls-Royce/Bentley or Lamborghini. AFAIK, there's K no cable TV channel for multi-millionaires or billionaires either, so they p+ must watch some of the same channels we do.M  E For one thing, these companies have NO need of ANY advertising, sinceE: they usually can't keep up with demand without advertising  D But they ALL have web sites, which anyone in the world with internet access may experience:  ?     http://www.rollsroycemotorcars.co.uk/rolls-royce/index.htmlu4     http://www.bentleymotors.co.uk/bentley/index.htm     http://www.ferrari.com/s     http://www.lamborghini.com/p  - The internet counts as mass media these days.   D : 	The point is - for niche or vertical products - it is a very rareB : 	thing for the marketing folks to wander outside a narrow mediumC : 	to impress upon the general population.  Direct marketing is allrB : 	the rage now and CRM is helping to narrow things.  Gone are theG : 	days when we all get our mailboxes stuffed with flyers.  CommercialsuF : 	that run during Friends are way different then commercials that run : 	on MTV, etc.c :  : > E : > VMS could stand exposure to a general public who thinks that all  B : > computing is done on Microsoft/Intel-or-AMD and Apple systems. : >  : " : 	It would be a waste of money.    G Then why is Union Pacific airing their "Building America" commercials ? E Most of the entire population never comes in contact with railroads*,r% with the possible exception of Amtrakf  F Few people deal with IBM mainframes or Oracle databases, yet both are  advertised on TV.e  = Look at how few customers companies needed from junk mail ande1 telemarketing campaigns. Much less than 1%, IIRC.s   : 6 : http://www.computerworld.com/services/mediakit/rates : G : 	$21000 an ad page for black and white in ComputerWorld.  A whole lot 9 : 	more of them than 1 minute of network commercial time.s : G Forget trade publications like Computerworld, and think New York Times, G Houston Chronicle, USA Today, Control Engineering, and the TV networks l such as CNN.  C With the exception of IBM, Sun, and Apple, there are NO commercials B for non-Wintel Cartel systems.  So the small and medium businesses@ get their Windows PCs and PC-based applications, and begin their- computing lives of the three-fingered salute.r  F Spending some money advertising OpenVMS and HP-UX is one way to prove C that H-P is serious about its non-Wintel products and their future.A    H --Jerry Leslie   leslie@clio.rice.edu  (my opinions are strictly my own)9   Note: leslie@jrlvax.houston.rr.com is invalid for emailg  D * The Union Pacific does operate excursion passenger trains, usually*   pulled by 3985 (4-6-6-4) or 844 (4-8-4).   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 01 Jun 2002 00:54:40 -0400a% From: JF Mezei <jfmezei@videotron.ca>t Subject: Re: Open Letter to HP, Message-ID: <3CF8538D.FBA5C284@videotron.ca>   Rob Young wrote:E >         Okay, I didn't know that.  I still don't ever recall seeing O >         a Rolls-Royce or Lamborhini commercial on commercial U.S. television.r  N There are plenty of "enterprise" companies that advertise on mainstream TV, or sponsor PBS programs.n  - Why would Boeing advertise on mainstream TV ?r  K It isn't a question of HP doing a VMS specific ad on mainstream TV. It is a L question of HP making an "image" ad on mainstream TV that shows VMS as being$ part of its core product offereings.   ------------------------------    Date: 31 May 2002 11:09:55 -0700( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)/ Subject: Open-source poses security risks - Da!M= Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0205311009.1d26bda8@posting.google.com>a  + finally, someone with some common sense ...e    ' Study: Open-source poses security risksr  g By Matthew Broersma 
 ZDNet (UK) May 31, 2002, 9:30 AM PT  B A conservative U.S. think-tank suggests in an upcoming report that? open-source software is inherently less secure than proprietaryeF software, and will warn governments against relying on open-source for national security.  C The white paper, Opening the Open Source Debate, from the Alexis delF Tocqueville Institution (ADTI) will suggest that open source opens theF gates to hackers and terrorists. "Terrorists trying to hack or disruptE U.S. computer networks might find it easier if the federal governmenthF attempts to switch to 'open source' as some groups propose," ADTI said, in a statement released ahead of the report.  = Open-source software is freely available for distribution andtB modification, as long as the modified software is itself availableE under open-source terms. The Linux operating system is the best-knowneF example of open source, having become popular in the Web server market& because of its stability and low cost.  A Many researchers have also suggested that since a large communityFC contributes to and scrutinizes open-source code, security holes aregD less likely to occur than in proprietary software, and can be caught and fixed more quickly.   F The ADTI white paper, to be released next week, will take the oppositeD line, outlining "how open source might facilitate efforts to disruptF or sabotage electronic commerce, air traffic control or even sensitive* surveillance systems," the institute said.  C "Computer systems are the backbone to U.S. national security," said F ADTI chairman Gregory Fossedal. "Before the Pentagon and other federalB agencies make uninformed decisions to alter the very foundation of? computer security, they should study the potential consequencesc carefully."e   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 15:05:42 -0400e1 From: Michael Austin <maustin@firstdbasource.com>'3 Subject: Re: Open-source poses security risks - Da!y2 Message-ID: <3CF7C986.C8259D3D@firstdbasource.com>   Bob Ceculski wrote:i > - > finally, someone with some common sense ...t > ) > Study: Open-source poses security risksa >  > By Matthew Broersmay > ZDNet (UK) > May 31, 2002, 9:30 AM PT > D > A conservative U.S. think-tank suggests in an upcoming report thatA > open-source software is inherently less secure than proprietary H > software, and will warn governments against relying on open-source for > national security. > E > The white paper, Opening the Open Source Debate, from the Alexis deyH > Tocqueville Institution (ADTI) will suggest that open source opens theH > gates to hackers and terrorists. "Terrorists trying to hack or disruptG > U.S. computer networks might find it easier if the federal government H > attempts to switch to 'open source' as some groups propose," ADTI said. > in a statement released ahead of the report. > ? > Open-source software is freely available for distribution andeD > modification, as long as the modified software is itself availableG > under open-source terms. The Linux operating system is the best-known H > example of open source, having become popular in the Web server market( > because of its stability and low cost. > C > Many researchers have also suggested that since a large communityaE > contributes to and scrutinizes open-source code, security holes areMF > less likely to occur than in proprietary software, and can be caught > and fixed more quickly.n > H > The ADTI white paper, to be released next week, will take the oppositeF > line, outlining "how open source might facilitate efforts to disruptH > or sabotage electronic commerce, air traffic control or even sensitive, > surveillance systems," the institute said. > E > "Computer systems are the backbone to U.S. national security," saidfH > ADTI chairman Gregory Fossedal. "Before the Pentagon and other federalD > agencies make uninformed decisions to alter the very foundation ofA > computer security, they should study the potential consequencesc
 > carefully."   H Unfortunately most of the people making the decisions are doing so basedE on cost alone.  If this is true then there are very few OS's that arevF not somehow based on Open Source. OpenVMS and OS390 (or whatever it is called these days).e -- e Regards,  7 Michael Austin            Registered Linux User #261163r7 First DBA Source, Inc.    http://www.firstdbasource.comP Sr. Consultant 704-947-1089 (Office)  704-236-4377 (Mobile)0   ------------------------------  + Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 12:52:35 -0700 (PDT) . From: Fabio Cardoso <fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br>3 Subject: Re: Open-source poses security risks - Da! @ Message-ID: <20020531195235.59238.qmail@web20201.mail.yahoo.com>  2 The open systems and "close system" should be much3 more secure if the market didnt accept new productsS+ each 2 months....I suggest IEEE for examplen- to create a standard to homologate software.   Each 6 months for example. a   Regardsr   FC L    - --- Bob Ceculski <bob@instantwhip.com> wrote:o- > finally, someone with some common sense ...p >  > ) > Study: Open-source poses security risks- >  . > By Matthew Broersma  > ZDNet (UK) > May 31, 2002, 9:30 AM PT > / > A conservative U.S. think-tank suggests in anm > upcoming report that5 > open-source software is inherently less secure than0
 > proprietary05 > software, and will warn governments against relyingj > on open-source for > national security. > 2 > The white paper, Opening the Open Source Debate, > from the Alexis de2 > Tocqueville Institution (ADTI) will suggest that > open source opens the 5 > gates to hackers and terrorists. "Terrorists tryinge > to hack or disrupt4 > U.S. computer networks might find it easier if the > federal government4 > attempts to switch to 'open source' as some groups > propose," ADTI said . > in a statement released ahead of the report. > . > Open-source software is freely available for > distribution and3 > modification, as long as the modified software isl > itself available5 > under open-source terms. The Linux operating system, > is the best-knownr6 > example of open source, having become popular in the > Web server marketw( > because of its stability and low cost. > 3 > Many researchers have also suggested that since ae > large communityM2 > contributes to and scrutinizes open-source code, > security holes are4 > less likely to occur than in proprietary software, > and can be caughta > and fixed more quickly.a > 6 > The ADTI white paper, to be released next week, will > take the oppositen3 > line, outlining "how open source might facilitates > efforts to disrupt6 > or sabotage electronic commerce, air traffic control > or even sensitived, > surveillance systems," the institute said. > 5 > "Computer systems are the backbone to U.S. nationali > security," saidr6 > ADTI chairman Gregory Fossedal. "Before the Pentagon > and other federale6 > agencies make uninformed decisions to alter the very > foundation ofm4 > computer security, they should study the potential > consequences
 > carefully."a     =====r ========================== Fbio dos Santos Cardoso OpenVMS System Manager Rio de Janeiro - Brazily fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br ==========================  2 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!?0 Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.como   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 20:50:38 GMTe' From: Jeffrey Chimene <jeff@nospam.net>-3 Subject: Re: Open-source poses security risks - Da!2* Message-ID: <3CF7E144.B224077C@nospam.net>   Bob Ceculski blurted::  # <vast swaths of propaganda omitted>y  C It's not too difficult (i.e. Google) to determine the links between9I microsoft,  and Fossedal/AdTI. This is part of the continuing ms campaign: against open-source software.s   -- microsoft free by 2003   ------------------------------    Date: 31 May 2002 20:47:18 -0700( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)3 Subject: Re: Open-source poses security risks - Da!f= Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0205311947.6671f5a1@posting.google.com>s  Y Jeffrey Chimene <jeff@nospam.net> wrote in message news:<3CF7E144.B224077C@nospam.net>...t > Bob Ceculski blurted:  > % > <vast swaths of propaganda omitted>m > E > It's not too difficult (i.e. Google) to determine the links betweenlK > microsoft,  and Fossedal/AdTI. This is part of the continuing ms campaigni > against open-source software.s  < ah, I don't think micro$oft is included in this as they have "no" security ...i   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 19:22:09 -0400e  From: John Santos <JOHN@egh.com>) Subject: Re: OpenVMS FAQ due next week...l4 Message-ID: <1020531190331.359A-100000@Ives.egh.com>  " On 30 May 2002, Bob Koehler wrote:  a > In article <ad40k7$6bt$3@web1.cup.hp.com>, hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) writes:c > > H > >   One distribution question: do y'all want to see the eight articlesI > >   that it will take to post the new FAQ -- this due to a two-hundred dJ > >   block limit in the local news server -- or will a notification here G > >   of its availability, and where you can access the new FAQ and/or cI > >   download it suffice?  (Or are there other distribution alternativesu; > >   that might be prefered?  Ok, that's two questions...)r > F >    As long as I can get a text-only version, I don't care how.  HTML< >    is nice, but sometimes I need to read the FAQ with EDT.  D I'll second this, but I *do* care (slightly) how.  (And I don't readE it with EDT, I use TECO.  And SEARCH...  Amongst the reasons I prefers6 the text-only version are such diverse elements as...)  E Someday, I will spend the 10 minutes necessary to install Lynx on onetD of my VMS systems.  Pending that, I can read news groups and use FTPG on my VMS systems, but I need to run web browsers on my DEC Unix system G or go elsewhere to a PC.  When I download stuff from the web, I need to K FTP it to somewhere useful (i.e. any disk on my VMS cluster.)  For one-step D downloading, I prefer it to be accessible via FTP, or if it's posted4 to the newsgroup, I can just save to disk from Pine.  A Maybe this is a short-term issue, and VMS Mozilla will be useablewD soon.  M0.9-8, the last one I tried, doesn't do downloads correctly,B or maybe at all.  (I couldn't get it to work, and I think it was aD known problem.)  In addition, it took many minutes to start up on myB world's slowest AlphaStation 200 4/100.  (Maybe the 1st generationB Alphas with faster clocks were actually slower, I don't know.)  ItD was almost as slow to start up on my AlphaServer 1200 5/533.  Is theB latest Mozilla faster/better?  Is that a FAQ?  P.S.  Netscape 4.73C on an identical AlphaStation 200 4/100 running DEC Unix works fine.-- But Netscape 4.xx isn't available for VMS :-(m   -- d John Santos  Evans Griffiths & Hart, Inc. 781-861-0670 ext 539   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 21:16:32 GMT ) From: Charles Richmond <richmond@ev1.net> + Subject: Re: OT: Units (was USofA'an coins) ' Message-ID: <3CF8040A.F4D15960@ev1.net>k   Eric Sosman wrote: > , >      [snip...]     [snip...]    [snip....] > < > ... the first being inspired by the old practice of making< > smaller change by cutting American dollar coins into eight; > "bits," and the last by an advertising slogan boasting ofi< > the great size of a fast-food item: "It takes two hands to > handle a Whopper." > 3 Actually, it was the Spanish dollars referred to as-6 "pieces of eight" in the pirate movies. These could be* broken into eight pieces to make change...   -- u? +-------------------------------------------------------------+6? |     Charles and Francis Richmond     <richmond@plano.net>   | ? +-------------------------------------------------------------+c   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 20:42:14 GMTo4 From: "H. McDaniel" <mcdaniel@localhost.localdomain>5 Subject: Re: Please Read - Very Important Information K Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0205311641170.8970-100000@localhost.localdomain>h  " On 31 May 2002, Otis McNatt wrote:  t > "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote in message news:<2RAJ8.79739$Gs.7471403@bin5.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>...B > > > Do you believe the "bible-thumping" caused this condition or@ > > > something else?  I'm curious about why you believe "idiocy> > > > and Bible-thumping go [together]".  Given that Bob's and@ > > > your own history are completely unknown to me, perhaps you) > > > could humor me with an explanation.  > > L > > It's not clear to me exactly what part of "I have no interest in talkingL > > with you" is hard for you to understand.  But, as I said, I really don't	 > > care.r > > C > > > Are you speaking for everyone that reads comp.os.vms?  I findnB > > > it interesting that people often forget to trim distribution5 > > > until after they've said what they want to say.g > > P > > Hey, shit-for-brains:  I would have trimmed everything *except* c.o.v. in myM > > first response had I thought to, since I have no interest in talking with ) > > people like you <.........etc., etc.>d  = Hmm.  People like me?  I guess he means people that don't patc> him on the back.  I suggest Bill Todd avoid speaking in places? where dissent is allowed.  And he sounds so angry.  About what?    > <rest snipped> > I > Hey, you're a funny guy.  Do you always talk to people whom you've justp: > informed repeatedly that you don't care to talk to them?  ? Actually, he didn't intend for me to see that ;)  That's an old E weasel trick on Usenet, to say your last piece but limit distributioni< so that the person you're attacking isn't likely to respond.  	 -McDaniel    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 20:34:43 GMT 4 From: "H. McDaniel" <mcdaniel@localhost.localdomain>5 Subject: Re: Please Read - Very Important Information.K Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0205311628560.8970-100000@localhost.localdomain>     On Fri, 31 May 2002, john wrote:  1 > On Fri, 31 May 2002 00:11:51 GMT, "H. McDaniel"l) > <mcdaniel@localhost.localdomain> wrote:i > ( > >On Thu, 30 May 2002, Bill Todd wrote: > >  > >> tD > >> "H. McDaniel" <mcdaniel@localhost.localdomain> wrote in messageJ > >> news:Pine.LNX.4.33.0205301832290.3847-100000@localhost.localdomain... [...]m  < > >> > As to "bible-thumping"... Bob didn't use any biblical? > >> > citations but I suppose that detail may not be importantt > >> > to you. > >> tK > >> 'God' (capitalized, in the societies almost certainly most prevalently Q > >> represented here) is not a biblical reference?  Guess you have problems withT > >> details yourself. > > B > >In that the word "God" is not exclusively found in the bible or? > >limited to biblical references the word does not necessarilys> > >indicate a biblical reference.  Plenty of people invoke the5 > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ A > >name "God" without making any specific or intentional biblicalv9 > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^h > D > >reference at all as was the case, from my point of view, in Bob's: > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^? > >posting.   Am I clear now or should I provide more examples?s5 > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^4 > F > Well, if he wasn't making a biblical reference then was he quoting a > ) >  personal message he received from God?a > + > How else would he know what God commands?3  ; You'd have to ask Bob that. What I know is that he does notk5 directly quote or refer to scripture.  Perhaps we cann' agree that he made a biblical allusion.   	 -McDaniel    ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 01 Jun 2002 00:17:45 GMTs* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>5 Subject: Re: Please Read - Very Important Informationt@ Message-ID: <JoUJ8.85359$%o.8050563@bin3.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>  ? "H. McDaniel" <mcdaniel@localhost.localdomain> wrote in messageiE news:Pine.LNX.4.33.0205311641170.8970-100000@localhost.localdomain....$ > On 31 May 2002, Otis McNatt wrote:   ...1  K > > Hey, you're a funny guy.  Do you always talk to people whom you've juste< > > informed repeatedly that you don't care to talk to them? >1A > Actually, he didn't intend for me to see that ;)  That's an oldmG > weasel trick on Usenet, to say your last piece but limit distributionh> > so that the person you're attacking isn't likely to respond.  G You fucking idiot:  the only distribution I limited was to comp.os.vms,aH since I (and I suspect most participants there) have no interest in thisK conversation (or in you).  Unless you've been a lurker for the past several J years (if so, I suggest you revert to that status), that's not a newsgroupL you pollute with your presence, so I assumed the post would reach you in one) of the others (which *I* don't frequent).s   - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 21:18:41 -0400s& From: "Rick C" <pixel_cat@hotmail.com>5 Subject: Re: Please Read - Very Important InformationfB Message-ID: <R6VJ8.91825$7S6.30635953@e3500-atl1.usenetserver.com>  5 "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote in messagee: news:JoUJ8.85359$%o.8050563@bin3.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com...  I > You fucking idiot:  the only distribution I limited was to comp.os.vms,aJ > since I (and I suspect most participants there) have no interest in thisE > conversation (or in you).  Unless you've been a lurker for the paste severalsL > years (if so, I suggest you revert to that status), that's not a newsgroupJ > you pollute with your presence, so I assumed the post would reach you in onei+ > of the others (which *I* don't frequent).   J What makes you think any other newsgroups want to see this nonsense?  This< thread was just a big troll and you've helped keep it going.   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 01 Jun 2002 02:31:05 GMTyA From: "H. McDaniel" <Cut_of_Xs_to_Reply_xxmcdaniel_san@yahoo.com>r5 Subject: Re: Please Read - Very Important Informationd) Message-ID: <3CF832CD.5A27AAE9@yahoo.com>    Bill Todd wrote:  A > "H. McDaniel" <mcdaniel@localhost.localdomain> wrote in messagenG > news:Pine.LNX.4.33.0205311641170.8970-100000@localhost.localdomain... & > > On 31 May 2002, Otis McNatt wrote: >< > ...@ >sM > > > Hey, you're a funny guy.  Do you always talk to people whom you've just-> > > > informed repeatedly that you don't care to talk to them? > > C > > Actually, he didn't intend for me to see that ;)  That's an oldoI > > weasel trick on Usenet, to say your last piece but limit distribution @ > > so that the person you're attacking isn't likely to respond. >nI > You fucking idiot:  the only distribution I limited was to comp.os.vms,t  C You have a history of lashing out at people on Usenet.  I guess you B don't get enough excitement out of playing with jello cubes at theC retirement home.  And what occured is that Otis' message arrived ont? my news server before the message of yours that he was quoting.h  J > since I (and I suspect most participants there) have no interest in this > conversation (or in you).   G Keep telling yourself that and in time you might even convince yourselfrH that it's true.  I wish you could stuff a sock in your potty mouth.  But you can't help yourself.  2 > Unless you've been a lurker for the past several > yearsl  C I haven't had the pleasure of shoving my hiking boots three feet upe& your arse.  But I will, if you insist.  F > (if so, I suggest you revert to that status), that's not a newsgroupN > you pollute with your presence, so I assumed the post would reach you in one+ > of the others (which *I* don't frequent).a  C It'd be hard to pollute something you've been pissing in for years.M  	 -McDaniell   ------------------------------    Date: 31 May 2002 20:33:35 -0700( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)5 Subject: Re: Please Read - Very Important Information = Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0205311933.71a982a0@posting.google.com>s   "H. McDaniel" <mcdaniel@localhost.localdomain> wrote in message news:<Pine.LNX.4.33.0205311628560.8970-100000@localhost.localdomain>...e" > On Fri, 31 May 2002, john wrote: > 3 > > On Fri, 31 May 2002 00:11:51 GMT, "H. McDaniel"l+ > > <mcdaniel@localhost.localdomain> wrote:g > > * > > >On Thu, 30 May 2002, Bill Todd wrote: > > >t > > >>  F > > >> "H. McDaniel" <mcdaniel@localhost.localdomain> wrote in messageL > > >> news:Pine.LNX.4.33.0205301832290.3847-100000@localhost.localdomain... > [...]n > > > > >> > As to "bible-thumping"... Bob didn't use any biblicalA > > >> > citations but I suppose that detail may not be importanti > > >> > to you. > > >>  M > > >> 'God' (capitalized, in the societies almost certainly most prevalentlysS > > >> represented here) is not a biblical reference?  Guess you have problems withf > > >> details yourself. > > > D > > >In that the word "God" is not exclusively found in the bible orA > > >limited to biblical references the word does not necessarilyR@ > > >indicate a biblical reference.  Plenty of people invoke the6 >  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^C > > >name "God" without making any specific or intentional biblicali; > > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^  > > F > > >reference at all as was the case, from my point of view, in Bob's; >  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^nA > > >posting.   Am I clear now or should I provide more examples? 7 > > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^  > > H > > Well, if he wasn't making a biblical reference then was he quoting a > > + > >  personal message he received from God?r > > - > > How else would he know what God commands?  > = > You'd have to ask Bob that. What I know is that he does not 7 > directly quote or refer to scripture.  Perhaps we cant) > agree that he made a biblical allusion.  >  > -McDaniel   ? that is direct from the Bible, and I didn't write it ... if youh7 don't like it, you'll have to speak to Him yourself ...o   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 20:36:31 GMTs' From: Jeffrey Chimene <jeff@nospam.net>o4 Subject: Re: read access required to write to a file* Message-ID: <3CF7DDF4.5714D5E6@nospam.net>   - wrote:  D > To do this I would need to ensure that a file had "RWD" protection? > code before my access() would say you had write access to it.   E Because VMS has the concept of file version, delete access is neithereC necessary nor sufficient for write access. The only situation whereg" delete access is necessary is whenH your Unix program deletes the existing file before creating the new one.D I've noticed that gVIM exhibits this behavior. Most VMS users expectH (& rely) on multiple versions; your porting goals (no change in behavior< vs. some OS-specific concessions) may want to take this into consideration.   -- microsoft free by 2003   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 17:12:24 -0400l% From: JF Mezei <jfmezei@videotron.ca>s# Subject: Re: Shadow sets efficiency , Message-ID: <3CF7E737.B59AB3C0@videotron.ca>   Nic Clews wrote:E > This will be why the physical backup is different, the IMAGE backup D > re-creates the system files, including any metadata. What does the > physical backup really do?  G I *think* that whenever you mount a drive, the shadow set metadata gets K changed. If you mount a drive outside of a shadow set, then the drive is noiG longer marked as a member of a shadowset. So, when you then MOUNT DSA2:=K /SHADOW=(disk1,disk2), even if disk2 is identical to disk1, because neither K disk1 nor disk2 were last mounted as shadow sets, then there will be a copy_ operation from disk1 to disk2.  G BACKUP/IMAGE requires that the drive be mounted. Hence, it will zap itsw! shadowset membership information.-  @ However, I am not certain about BACKUP/PHYSICAL. If one can do aM backup/physical of a macintosh drive, it would mean that BACKUP/PHYSICAL will K not attempt to change anything on the drive when it accesses it. This would M mean that any shadowsing membership metadata would remain on the drive and on 	 its copy.h   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 18:17:07 -0400u% From: JF Mezei <jfmezei@videotron.ca>o# Subject: Re: Shadow sets efficiency3, Message-ID: <3CF7F65D.F2155938@videotron.ca>   Bart Zorn wrote:J > I can't imagine that the shadowing software would accept the result of aJ > BACKUP/PHYSICAL as a valid shadowset member just because it has the sameF > generation number. Equal generation numbers are only valid when moreI > than one member gets mounted into an empty (or not yet existing) shadoww > set.    
 MOUNT $DISK1:m BACKUP/IMAGE $DISK3: $DISK1: DISMOUNT DISK1:    MOUNT DSA2:/SHADOW=($DISK1)  DISMOUNT DSA2: BACKUP/PHYSICAL $DISK1: $DISK2:e$ MOUNT DSA2:/DSHADOW=($DISK1, $DISK2)    M Once you have populated the first drive, you create a single drive shadowset.eW This sets up the generation  numbers etc and a bit set that it was properly dismounted.   * The backup/physical would copy those bits.  N so when you mount the 2 drives, they should have identical generation numbers.D Shouldn't the shadow software accept $DISK2 has having been properlyM dismounted at the same time as $DISK1 and hence, when you recreate the shadowc% set, there would be no need to copy ?:  N Or does the shadow metadata keep a list of valid drives and while $DISK1 wouldM be in that list, $DISk2 wouldn't, so when it brings in $DISK2, even though it-A would have the same generation number, it would not be accepted ?e   ------------------------------    Date: 01 Jun 2002 09:44:46 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com># Subject: Re: Shadow sets efficiency'0 Message-ID: <871ybr7oxd.fsf@k9.prep.synonet.com>  * Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1> writes:   > Phillip Helbig wrote:e  K > > > Where's the shadowing internals book? There's a space in my shelf forl. > > > it. Well, OK, I'll make room for one :-)  C > > There is the Volume Shadowing for OpenVMS as part of the normaloH > > documentation.  It discusses things like the timestamp etc.  Perhaps* > > this is enough on "internals" for you.  y( > Of course I have that but no it isn't.  aE > John Atoz would be the ideal candidate when MiniMerge starts to get ? > a little more mature. He has a fine whitepaper on the role ofm= > shadowing in disaster tolerant clusters out there. I had an ' > interesting chat with him a bit back.o  A There is also a DTR paper on gatekeeper, but it is probably a bite iffy on the fine dtails by now.s   -- P< Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.t@                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------    Date: 01 Jun 2002 09:38:57 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com># Subject: Re: Shadow sets efficiencyp0 Message-ID: <8766137p72.fsf@k9.prep.synonet.com>  / JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> writes:a  B > > > > 1. Create a single member shadow 'set' and copy your data.N > > > > 2. Do a BACKUP/PHYSICAL to the member drive which will join the shadow > > > > set.  8D > If you do a BACKUP/PHYSICAL, how does that affect bad blocks ? Are< > those revectored transparently even to a BACKUP/PHYSICAL ?  D Ah, now that is a possible problem. Not bad blocks, they should haveE been revectored, but there may be a `forced error' block on the soucenD drive, and that needs to be replecated on the other drive. They *DO*: do read/write long, don't they? Or do I smell an EMC here?     -- n< Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda. @                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------    Date: 31 May 2002 13:30:10 -0700& From: jordan@ccs4vms.com (Rich Jordan)G Subject: Shadowset on standalone system goes into merge state on reboot-= Message-ID: <cc5619f2.0205311230.6dc294ca@posting.google.com>   B Standalone DS20e 67/667, OpenVMS Alpha V7.3 with all patches up to? date as of 5/14/2002.  Six 'universal' 18GB, 10KRPM drives on a B KZPCA-AA controller installed in the internal shelf, configured asE three shadow sets of 2 spindles each.  There is currently about 3.5GB  used on each shadowset..  D The 'last' shadowset DSA2 is going into 'merge' state after a systemC shutdown and reboot.  DSA0 and DSA1 do not act this way.  The merged? took almost 40 hours to complete on a mostly idle system (aftereB restarting from 0% when the machine had to be shut down to move). E Thankfully the system is not yet in production.  We will need to shut C it down again on Monday for a final move, and it'd be better if thet$ set doesn't come up merging again...  C We're wondering if, since DSA2 is the last volume dismounted by theaF system, either some other process is still trying to act on the volumeE when it is dismounted, or if the dismount doesn't actually 'complete'pC before the system goes away.  This is the only box I have access tow> with shadowing, so unfortunately I can't do testing elsewhere.  D While I get the shadowing docs printed out to make sure this box wasA configured properly, and check the relevant parameters, any inputlF would be appreciated.  DSNlink didn't appear to have anything relevantE (the known merge-related problems apparently were in earlier versionsp of VMS).   Rich Jordani   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 19:35:04 -0400>% From: JF Mezei <jfmezei@videotron.ca>uK Subject: Re: Shadowset on standalone system goes into merge state on reboott, Message-ID: <3CF8089C.69D6CCD8@videotron.ca>   Rich Jordan wrote:F > The 'last' shadowset DSA2 is going into 'merge' state after a system: > shutdown and reboot.  DSA0 and DSA1 do not act this way.  I Have you tried dismounting the shadowset in the site specific procedure ?a  L Or do you just let the system do the dismount with the proper abort bits setI to make it dismount even if there are still opened files on it ? (such asD installed files).0   ------------------------------    Date: 31 May 2002 12:52:23 -0700. From: SPAMSINK2001@YAHOO.COM (Alan E. Feldman) Subject: Re: SHOW LOGICAL bug?= Message-ID: <343f30ae.0205311152.40757642@posting.google.com>l   "Craig A. Berry" <craig.berry@nospam.SignalTreeSolutions.com> wrote in message news:<craig.berry-1F11E5.19383930052002@news.directvinternet.com>...a> > In article <343f30ae.0205301606.b8ddcfd@posting.google.com>,2 >  SPAMSINK2001@YAHOO.COM (Alan E. Feldman) wrote: > " > > Directory DISK$DATA1:[FELDMAN] > >  >A > > J.;1                        0/0       30-MAY-2002 23:52:13.31t > >  n  > > Total of 1 file, 0/0 blocks. > > $ DEFI J K
 > > $ SL A$ > >    "A" = "B" (LNM$PROCESS_TABLE)$ > > 1  "B" = "C" (LNM$PROCESS_TABLE)$ > > 2  "C" = "D" (LNM$PROCESS_TABLE)$ > > 3  "D" = "E" (LNM$PROCESS_TABLE)$ > > 4  "E" = "F" (LNM$PROCESS_TABLE)$ > > 5  "F" = "G" (LNM$PROCESS_TABLE)$ > > 6  "G" = "H" (LNM$PROCESS_TABLE)$ > > 7  "H" = "I" (LNM$PROCESS_TABLE)$ > > 8  "I" = "J" (LNM$PROCESS_TABLE)$ > > 9  "J" = "K" (LNM$PROCESS_TABLE) > > $ DIR Av. > > %DIRECT-E-OPENIN, error opening A as input. > > -RMS-F-LNE, logical name translation error > D > I haven't thought this through, but what happens if K.;1 actually H > exists?  You have a J.;1, right, but no K.;1, so when it gets to K it I > finds neither an actual file nor a further translation?  Translating K  H > would be the 11th iteration so it may simply be telling you it's gone 6 > as far as it's allowed to and hasn't found anything.     $ SL A!    "A" = "B:" (LNM$PROCESS_TABLE)'! 1  "B" = "C:" (LNM$PROCESS_TABLE) ! 2  "C" = "D:" (LNM$PROCESS_TABLE)e! 3  "D" = "E:" (LNM$PROCESS_TABLE) ! 4  "E" = "F:" (LNM$PROCESS_TABLE) ! 5  "F" = "G:" (LNM$PROCESS_TABLE)-! 6  "G" = "H:" (LNM$PROCESS_TABLE),! 7  "H" = "I:" (LNM$PROCESS_TABLE)B! 8  "I" = "J:" (LNM$PROCESS_TABLE) ! 9  "J" = "K:" (LNM$PROCESS_TABLE)o $ DIR Ko  t" Directory DISK$DATA1:[FELDMAN.DCL]  6= K.TXT;1                     0/0       31-MAY-2002 12:45:53.95h  . Total of 1 file, 0/0 blocks. $ DIR An* %DIRECT-E-OPENIN, error opening A as input* -RMS-F-LNE, logical name translation error $t    F So, the translation on iteration 9 is misleading because in "real use" it doesn't happen. Oh well.o    r# > > > > Also, you have to check not N > > > > only if the equivalence name is the same as the original logical name,L > > > > but you also have to check whether the resulting equivalence name isH > > > > also a logical name in another table. More unnecessary overhead. > > > I > > > I don't see any reason to look in other tables since the recursion eI > > > already shows that it never moves beyond the table where the first oG > > > successful translation occurs.  However, I don't have the source u          $ DEFINE AA BB: %DCL-I-SUPERSEDE, previous value of AA has been superseded $ DEFINE BB CC /JOBp $ SL AA "    "AA" = "BB" (LNM$PROCESS_TABLE)! 1  "BB" = "CC" (LNM$JOB_8343A540)   + Here we see that it goes to the next table.3   $ DEFINE AA AA: %DCL-I-SUPERSEDE, previous value of AA has been superseded $ DEFINE AA BB/JOB $ DEFINE BB CC/JOB $ SL AAs"    "AA" = "AA" (LNM$PROCESS_TABLE)" 1  "AA" = "AA" (LNM$PROCESS_TABLE)" 2  "AA" = "AA" (LNM$PROCESS_TABLE)" 3  "AA" = "AA" (LNM$PROCESS_TABLE)" 4  "AA" = "AA" (LNM$PROCESS_TABLE)" 5  "AA" = "AA" (LNM$PROCESS_TABLE)" 6  "AA" = "AA" (LNM$PROCESS_TABLE)" 7  "AA" = "AA" (LNM$PROCESS_TABLE)" 8  "AA" = "AA" (LNM$PROCESS_TABLE)" 9  "AA" = "AA" (LNM$PROCESS_TABLE)! 9  "AA" = "BB" (LNM$JOB_8343A540)r! 8  "AA" = "BB" (LNM$JOB_8343A540)o! 7  "AA" = "BB" (LNM$JOB_8343A540)u! 6  "AA" = "BB" (LNM$JOB_8343A540)o! 5  "AA" = "BB" (LNM$JOB_8343A540)m! 4  "AA" = "BB" (LNM$JOB_8343A540)i! 3  "AA" = "BB" (LNM$JOB_8343A540)f! 2  "AA" = "BB" (LNM$JOB_8343A540)a! 1  "AA" = "BB" (LNM$JOB_8343A540)s!    "AA" = "BB" (LNM$JOB_8343A540) ! 1  "BB" = "CC" (LNM$JOB_8343A540)  $ DIR AA+ %DIRECT-E-OPENIN, error opening AA as input0* -RMS-F-LNE, logical name translation error  C Here, even with AA-->AA it still goes to the next table.           e      M > > > listings (and like Patrick I'm not a MACRO-head) so I'm far from being T? > > > in a position to prescribe exactly what the fix would be.o > >  > > H > > If FOO were defined to be something different in another table, then= > > you would get a different answer by continuing iteration.  > H > Hmm.  I think if you get a successful match in an outer mode table it G > won't proceed to an inner mode table.  The next iteration will start cI > over working its way through the tables defined in LNM$FILE_DEV, so if tG > you're stopping a recursion you wouldn't have to worry about whether aG > the LNM exists in a more inner mode table because you'd never see it  	 > anyway.     @ But that's not what you said above. You said above the following	 re-quote:   I > > > I don't see any reason to look in other tables since the recursion aI > > > already shows that it never moves beyond the table where the first iG > > > successful translation occurs.  However, I don't have the source e         D It does move beyond the table where the first successful translation occurrs.  5 Anyway, the solution, I believe we are agreed on, is    )     $ DEFINE FOO FOO/TRANSLATION=TERMINALs   Disclaimer: JMHO Alan E. Feldmanl" afeldman atski gfigroup dotski com  @ I assume you mean logical translation table order (process, job,= group, system) because "mode" referes to access mode which isv user-->super-->exec-->kernel.u   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 01 Jun 2002 02:42:08 GMTe1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>o# Subject: Re: TCPware 5.5 & CSWS 1.2d' Message-ID: <3CF83806.D3CAE4F8@fsi.net>e   Patrick Young wrote: > 5 > bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski) wrote in messageeC > > do ... if you can run apache and understand the web and tcp/ip,-; > > you should be able to run any webserver, shouldn't you?. > @ > OK, (I know I should not get into this, it's Friday night, I'm% > at the end of a hard week, ... but)7 > 7 > Now, Bob, you might be in some closed world where theh> > (properly downgraded term) -> "IT Industry", is yet unknown,; > and the "Computer Industry" is still fact. For most of us2 > this is not the case.  > ; > I'll patch you in on the current state of play: Apache iso9 > *THE WEB SERVER* - it is in the process of killing M$ -2. > the battle is on. I know which side I am on. > 9 > Apache under OpenVMS - even in earlier versions, one of : > which I am running, is ***VERY COMPETENT*** since it has: > been poked at from just about every angle. Under OpenVMS; > the security aspect can be extended in any way you want -p8 > IE: you can contain it under a given username and give > it access restricted by ACLs.e > 9 > The stress I have put Apache under is not something anyr4 > normal company (such as yours) would put it under: > ? > (1) Labs - ~250 PCs - all 100% under use (we are a large partt< >     of UNSW) Home page on browser launch - course notes on >     the web.< > (2) Computer Science students - who will take out anything< >     not secure. (well I did the same anyway when I was...)6 > (3) Other web site ORGs initiated by research teams. > > > You are right in that I expect my hardware (Alpha) and my OSE > (OpenVMS) to stand in there - it does - no problems. TCPIP ServicesnC > was a problem - now is less of one (ECO4) and with the patch I am^> > waiting for (my work around code already posted solving this@ > for me), will no longer be one. Apache is _VERY CLOSE_ to 100% > in my environment. >  > Any questions?  E Just one: When the Call for Participation in "DECUS" (HPETS) 2002 St.qF Louis finally appears, would you consider submitting a presentation on
 the how-to's?h   -- w David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systemst http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------    Date: 31 May 2002 20:54:41 -0700( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)# Subject: Re: TCPware 5.5 & CSWS 1.2,= Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0205311954.3cab65a1@posting.google.com>-  n P.Young@unsw.EDU.AU (Patrick Young) wrote in message news:<55f85d77.0205310729.5dbaff2d@posting.google.com>...6 > bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski) wrote in message C > > do ... if you can run apache and understand the web and tcp/ip,s; > > you should be able to run any webserver, shouldn't you?( > @ > OK, (I know I should not get into this, it's Friday night, I'm% > at the end of a hard week, ... but)t > 7 > Now, Bob, you might be in some closed world where theu> > (properly downgraded term) -> "IT Industry", is yet unknown,; > and the "Computer Industry" is still fact. For most of us' > this is not the case.b > ; > I'll patch you in on the current state of play: Apache isr9 > *THE WEB SERVER* - it is in the process of killing M$ -O. > the battle is on. I know which side I am on. > 9 > Apache under OpenVMS - even in earlier versions, one of-: > which I am running, is ***VERY COMPETENT*** since it has: > been poked at from just about every angle. Under OpenVMS; > the security aspect can be extended in any way you want -c8 > IE: you can contain it under a given username and give > it access restricted by ACLs.u > 9 > The stress I have put Apache under is not something any 4 > normal company (such as yours) would put it under: > ? > (1) Labs - ~250 PCs - all 100% under use (we are a large part.< >     of UNSW) Home page on browser launch - course notes on >     the web.< > (2) Computer Science students - who will take out anything< >     not secure. (well I did the same anyway when I was...)6 > (3) Other web site ORGs initiated by research teams. > > > You are right in that I expect my hardware (Alpha) and my OSE > (OpenVMS) to stand in there - it does - no problems. TCPIP Services C > was a problem - now is less of one (ECO4) and with the patch I amt> > waiting for (my work around code already posted solving this@ > for me), will no longer be one. Apache is _VERY CLOSE_ to 100% > in my environment. >  > Any questions?  @ yes, first of all, your code and ec04 doesn't do a thing for the: problems on tcpware/multinet ... not everyone runs ucx ...   ------------------------------    Date: 31 May 2002 21:01:55 -0700( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)# Subject: Re: TCPware 5.5 & CSWS 1.2s= Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0205312001.6c013b0a@posting.google.com>   u martin@radiogaga.harz.de (Martin Vorlaender) wrote in message news:<3cf3d328.524144494f47414741@radiogaga.harz.de>...u, > Rick Barry (barry@star.zko.dec.com) wrote:; > > "Martin Vorlaender" <martin@radiogaga.harz.de> wrote...o@ > > > ever since having set up CSWS 1.0 I have observed that theA > > > web server becomes unresponsive now and then (once in threeT$ > > > days up to a few times a day). > >IM > > For resolution of this problem (servers become unresponsive), I recommendI& > > that you contact Customer Support. > >rJ > > The TCP/IP Services group is testing a fix for a shared socket problemJ > > which may address the problem you're seeing and they'll be able to get, > > you a patch as soon as one is available. > > K > > As Patrick mentions, ECO4 fixes a memory leak in socket structures, butw2 > > the shared socket problem is a separate issue. > A > Thanks, Rick. Unfortunately I don't run Compaq TCP/IP Services.aA > I'll try and contact Process Software support (although my postm9 > in the TCPware newsgroup didn't trigger any responses).  >  > cu,l
 >   Martin  A I am the one who found the original problems 1 1/2 years ago witheA running apache on tcpware/multinet ... and I still don't think it-A works right, and I certainly am not going to waste another monthsR@ time just to find out the same or more problems exist ... if theB ucx group can only get apache to run on ucx, but not on high level> stacks like tcpware/multinet, then what good is it, and now weB find out it even has problems on ucx ... you want reliability, try< purveyor, it was written for tcpware, and is bulletproof ...   ------------------------------   Date: 31 May 2002 22:44:34 GMT* From: Rick Kelly <rmk@roothog.rmkhome.com>( Subject: Re: VAX emulators (was freeVMS)3 Message-ID: <3cf7fcd2$0$183$75868355@news.frii.net>e  & Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net> wrote:  @ > simh also emulates multiple hardware platforms (including some7 > non-DEC) with the VAX just being the latest addition.   ) Here is how I spent a Saturday afternoon.h  1 Installed simh VAX emulator on a NetBSD/i386 box.k+ Bring up emulator and installed NetBSD/vax.,+ Installed KLH10 on the NetBSD/vax emulator.d Brought up TOPS-10 on KLH10.   It just all worked.    --  , rmk@rmkhome.com		http://www.rmkhome.com/~rmk   ------------------------------    Date: 01 Jun 2002 07:02:30 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>, Subject: Re: VMS Clusters with FDDI/Ethernet0 Message-ID: <87wutj7wft.fsf@k9.prep.synonet.com>  # pyeargi@yahoo.com (Peter Y) writes:-  h > pyeargi@yahoo.com (Peter Y) wrote in message news:<15a86a22.0205231031.1bbc0512@posting.google.com>...  F > Let me clarify how things are currently set up.  I have properly setF > up a FDDI ring on the backplane, connected the FDDI daughter card toD > this FDDI ring on the backplane, and connected the 900FH module toE > this FDDI ring...all via clearvisn.  The Satellite is connected via E > FDDI to the 900FH module, and the boot server is connected via FDDIhD > to a FDDI/Gigaswitch.  When the 100FX port on the VNSwitch900FX isC > connected and operating, it connects to a Cisco 6509 switch whichcC > connects via Gig-E to the MS700 and out the MS700 via FDDI to theaD > FDDI/Gigaswitch. The traffic then takes the following path between > boot server and satellite.  mD > *--*  FDDI  *--*  100FX *--*  GigE  *--*   FDDI *--*  FDDI  *--*  C > |  |========|  |--------|  |========|  |========|  |========|  | mC > *--*        *--*        *--*        *--*        *--*        *--* 0 > E > Satellite   MS900       6509        MS700     FDDI/Gig    ES40 Booto3 > Server          ================================2-  C > When the MS900 is using its FDDI uplink, it bypasses the 6509 andoB > MS700 completely and plugs directly to the FDDI/Gigaswitch.  The< > satellite boots in this configuration perfectly.  The onlyE > difference in this whole path is the fast ethernet with a differentV? > packet size, unless I am missing something.  Any help is much' > appreciated.  D Boot is happy, MOP only uses small packets, (512 plus a few) so thatB is OK. With = denoting a jumbo pkt link, and - a small, we can seeB that if LAA or SCS trys to use large packets, it will be a partialB failure. Small packets will get through, so instead of failing theA circuit, SCS may well keep it open and prevent anothe LAN circuit0 from carring the trafic.  E The only other thing is to be sure SCS trafic is bridged. If the 6509hC or the MS700 where not letting SCS through, that would also explainW what you are seeing.   --  < Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.f@                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------  + Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 12:58:15 -0700 (PDT)i. From: Fabio Cardoso <fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br> Subject: Re: VMS to UNIX/LINUX? Message-ID: <20020531195815.2325.qmail@web20207.mail.yahoo.com>p   Try NFS !!! It is better !     Regards    FC u6 --- JeffM <Jeffrey.Mutonho@softwarefutures.com> wrote:6 > I'm writing(in C++, on VMS) a application that needs > to talk to a remote 3 > UNIX box and be able to browse the file system on- > the remote box , and  ) > place files in some specific directory?M. > What's the best way of doing that?Sockets?Or > invoking FTP from within s > the application?Any ideas? >      =====F ========================== Fbio dos Santos Cardoso OpenVMS System Manager Rio de Janeiro - Brazilt fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br ==========================  2 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!?0 Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 21:00:32 GMTl1 From: Forrest Kenney <Forrest.Kenney@hp.com.doom>0: Subject: Would you like to see this on the VMS freeware CD+ Message-ID: <3CF7E2BA.82C27867@hp.com.doom>n  G     I got bored last Sunday and built a Joystick driver that works with1 the USB4E code latent in V7.3-1.  Thanks go to Andy Goldstein for bugging me toe writeoF one for him.  It is highly unlikely that this will ever get shipped in the OpenVMS.E kits we send out.  So if folks would like it I will see about getting,
 out on theB freeware site and CD after V7.3-1 ships.  There are some other USB goodiesAF being done as midnight/weekend project that will find their way to the freeware site when they are ready.0  D     Please do send me requests for your favorite USB device I do not	 have time / to take on any additional after hours USB work.(     Forrest Kenney  OpenVMS group USB project leader Forrest.Kenney@hp.comN   ------------------------------  $ Date: Sat, 1 Jun 2002 14:59:29 +1200" From: "AG" <a_n_g@x_t_r_a.c_o.n_z>, Subject: Re: [Change topic]:  USofA'an coins3 Message-ID: <7LWJ8.6392$EZ5.647485@news.xtra.co.nz>   ; "CSABA HARANGOZO" <csabah@zipworld.com.au> wrote in message 1 news:AfoJ8.2801$06.366293@nasal.pacific.net.au... 4 > Bill Gunshannon <bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu> wrote:; > > In article <P83I8.2493$06.328911@nasal.pacific.net.au>,o7 > > CSABA  HARANGOZO   <csabah@zipworld.com.au> writes:r > > |>J > > |>                    The 2 and 1 cent ones only went away a few yearsD > > |>      back though, but prices still marked as 2.99 or 3.98 :-)J > > |>      What they do is that at the end of the additions they round up ifK > > |>      the sum ends in 8 or 9, like for 12.98 you pay 13.00, and 6 andP 7E9 > > |>      down. All even out in the long term, I guess.: >L& > > All even out for who?? The store?? >E= > For everyone, I guess. If I go shopping let's say 10 times,L= > chances are I will be rounded down 5 times, and 5 times up.o  D No, sorry. Chances are you would not. You assume an even statistical; distribution in the above but the dice is loaded of course.08 (Anyone ever saw a 4.001 price as opposed to the 3.999?)  F Let's assume for the sake of argument that the price is rounded to 0.1G (instead of 0.05 - but the same would apply). That means that any small.E purchase (up to and including 5 items) is rounded up. That means that H on all and every purchase in this range you would loose money. No amountF of repeat shopping would help since the rounding is accumulative - not evening out.  G To get the rounding go the other way you need to make at least a 6-item'E purchase (at which point I guess most retailers won't mind giving youlF a 0.05 discount on the total). However, in any given 10-item cycle youG pay up-front for the first items. You may or may not be able to recover G the cost on future purchases but the chances are you would not. Even ifeK you do - the retailer haven't *lost* any money so it's a win-win situation. G This doesn't happen often (much less *always*) so the chances are *not*t in your favour.E  8 > Anyway, the people here accepted this, at the end of a> > supermarket shopping, at the checkout the sums automatically > adjusted. No one complains.   H Sure, who cares about a half-cent accumulated difference? But statistics are tricky, you know ;)L   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2002.301 ************************ (LNM$PROCESS_TABLE)" 7  "AA" = "AA" (LNM$PROCESS_TABLE)" 8  "AA" = "AA" (LNM$PROCESS_TABLE)" 9  "AA" = "AA" (LNM$PROCESS_TABLE)! 9  "AA" = "BB" (LNM$JOB_8343A540)r! 8  "AA" = "BB" (LNM$JOB_8343A540)o! 7  "AA" = "BB" (LNM$JOB_8343A540)u! 6  "AA" = "BB" (LNM$JOB_8343A540)o! 5  "AA" = "BB" (LN܆    ܆    ܆    ܆    ܆    ܆    ܆    ܆    ܆    ܆    ܆    ܆    ܆    ܆    ܆    ܆    ܆    ܆    ܆    ܆    ܆    ܆    ܆    ܆    ܆    ܆    ܆    ܆    ܆    ܆    ܆    ܆    ܆    ܆    ܆    ܆    ܆    ܆    ܆    ܆    ܆    ܆    ܆    ܆    ܆    ܆    ܆    ܆    ܆    ܆    ܆    ܆    ܆    ܆    ܆    ܆    ܆    ܆    ܆    ܆    ܆    ܆    ܆    ܆    ܆    ܆    ܆    ܆    ܆    ܆    ܆    ܆    ܆    ܆    ܆    ܆    ܆    ܆    ܆    ܆    ܆    ܆    ܆    ܆    ܆    ܆    ܆    ܆    ܆    ܆    ܆    ܆    ܆    ܆    ܆    ܆    ܆    ܆    ܆    ܆    ܆    ܆    ܆    ܆    ܆    ܆    ܆    ܆    ܆    ܆    ܆    ܆    ܆    ܆    ܆    ܆    ܆    ܆    ܆    ܆    ܆    ܆    ܆    ܆    ܆    ܆    ܆    ܆     ݆    ݆    ݆    ݆    ݆    ݆    ݆    ݆    ݆    	݆    
݆    ݆    ݆    
݆    ݆    ݆    ݆    ݆    ݆    ݆    ݆    ݆    ݆    ݆    ݆    ݆    ݆    ݆    ݆    ݆    ݆    ݆     ݆    !݆    "݆    #݆    $݆    %݆    &݆    '݆    (݆    )݆    *݆    +݆    ,݆    -݆    .݆    /݆    0݆    1݆    2݆    3݆    4݆    5݆    6݆    7݆    8݆    9݆    :݆    ;݆    <݆    =݆    >݆    ?݆    @݆    A݆    B݆    C݆    D݆    E݆    F݆    G݆    H݆    I݆    J݆    K݆    L݆    M݆    N݆    O݆    P݆    Q݆    R݆    S݆    T݆    U݆    V݆    W݆    X݆    Y݆    Z݆    [݆    \݆    ]݆    ^݆    _݆    `݆    a݆    b݆    c݆    d݆    e݆    f݆    g݆    h݆    i݆    j݆    k݆    l݆    m݆    n݆    o݆    p݆    q݆    r݆    s݆    t݆    u݆    v݆    w݆    x݆    y݆    z݆    {݆    |݆    }݆    ~݆    ݆    ݆    ݆    ݆    ݆    ݆    ݆    ݆    ݆    ݆    ݆    ݆    ݆    ݆    ݆    ݆    ݆    ݆    ݆    ݆    ݆    ݆    ݆    ݆    ݆    ݆    ݆    ݆    ݆    ݆    ݆    ݆    ݆    ݆    ݆    ݆    ݆    ݆    ݆    ݆    ݆    ݆    ݆    ݆    ݆    ݆    ݆    ݆    ݆    ݆    ݆    ݆    ݆    ݆    ݆    ݆    ݆    ݆    ݆    ݆    ݆    ݆    ݆    ݆    ݆    ݆    ݆    ݆    ݆    ݆    ݆    ݆    ݆    ݆    ݆    ݆    ݆    ݆    ݆    ݆    ݆    ݆    ݆    ݆    ݆    ݆    ݆    ݆    ݆    ݆    ݆    ݆    ݆    ݆    ݆    ݆    ݆    ݆    ݆    ݆    ݆    ݆    ݆    ݆    ݆    ݆    ݆    ݆    ݆    ݆    ݆    ݆    ݆    ݆    ݆    ݆    ݆    ݆    ݆    ݆    ݆    ݆    ݆    ݆    ݆    ݆    ݆    ݆    ݆    