1 INFO-VAX	Sat, 01 Jun 2002	Volume 2002 : Issue 302       Contents:A RE: "Recode in another language", was: RE: VAX to ia64 migration? A Re: "Recode in another language", was: RE: VAX to ia64 migration? A Re: "Recode in another language", was: RE: VAX to ia64 migration? A Re: "Recode in another language", was: RE: VAX to ia64 migration? A RE: "Recode in another language", was: RE: VAX to ia64 migration? A Re: "Recode in another language", was: RE: VAX to ia64 migration?  Re: Adding drives to SAN/HSG802 Re: Blocking maile (waOh My God Help Me Please!!!)= Re: China to launch cyber attacks soon, be on VMS or bye-bye! = Re: China to launch cyber attacks soon, be on VMS or bye-bye!  Re: Console graphics reset Re: Console graphics reset Re: Console graphics reset2 Re: Data redundancy options for 3000 foot distance Re: fortran  Re: Open Letter to HP  Re: Open Letter to HP  Re: Open Letter to HP  Re: Open Letter to HP " Re: OT: Units (was USofA'an coins)< Security breach lawsuits coming ... VMS can help prevent it! Re: Shadow sets efficiencyB Re: Shadowset on standalone system goes into merge state on rebootB Re: Shadowset on standalone system goes into merge state on reboot Re: TCPware 5.5 & CSWS 1.2C Re: visual formatting (was: Re: Mark Gorham's Beer Bash in Reading) C Re: visual formatting (was: Re: Mark Gorham's Beer Bash in Reading) # Re: [Change topic]:  USofA'an coins   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  $ Date: Sat, 1 Jun 2002 06:11:50 -0700# From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> J Subject: RE: "Recode in another language", was: RE: VAX to ia64 migration?9 Message-ID: <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIAELDFBAA.tom@kednos.com>    >-----Original Message----- 7 >From: David J. Dachtera [mailto:djesys.nospam@fsi.net] # >Sent: Friday, May 31, 2002 8:09 PM  >To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com@ >Subject: Re: "Recode in another language", was: RE: VAX to ia64 >migration?  >  >  >John Reagan wrote:  >>   >> This really isn't new.  >>  J >> Not to defend the decisions, we told the same thing to our SCAN, DIBOL, >> LISP, KOALA, etc. > @ >I used to know what KOALA is/was. Can anyone refresh my memory? > 9 >> customers over the years.  Heck, I've even recommended F >> to a few Pascal customers to recode to something besides Pascal for >> various reasons.  >>  G >> Perhaps we shouldn't word it exactly as "recode or else" but perhaps H >> just state the fact that WE are getting out of that language business. >> and let the 3rd party market fill the void. > I >You're keeping them up to speed on GEM, right? Otherwise, it'd be number 5 >language vendors = number of object code generators.   I Which other languages besides PL/I, that have been spun out, use GEM?  If G we had to build another code generator, it would only be Itanium if our 8 customers asked for it, and so far that hasn't happened.   > I >> In my personal opinion, I'm not sure I agree with all the decisions of ! >> the past, but nobody asked me.  >  >All right, then. I'll ask.  >  >--  >David J. Dachtera >dba DJE Systems >http://www.djesys.com/  > ) >Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page:   >http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/ >  >---' >Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. ; >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). A >Version: 6.0.363 / Virus Database: 201 - Release Date: 5/21/2002  >  --- & Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.: Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).@ Version: 6.0.363 / Virus Database: 201 - Release Date: 5/21/2002   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 01 Jun 2002 14:47:13 GMT & From: John Reagan <john.reagan@hp.com>J Subject: Re: "Recode in another language", was: RE: VAX to ia64 migration?% Message-ID: <3CF8DD17.4030207@hp.com>    David J. Dachtera wrote: > A > I used to know what KOALA is/was. Can anyone refresh my memory?  >   I A Pascal-like language, invented by Bob Cushliss (I think I spelled that  ' correctly), used to implement WPS-PLUS.    > J > You're keeping them up to speed on GEM, right? Otherwise, it'd be number6 > language vendors = number of object code generators. >  >   E You already have that today.  The Ada compiler that ACT is producing  F isn't using GEM, but gcc.  To answer your question, "no, I know of no G plans to license/expose GEM for Itanium to 3rd parties."  However, I'm  H not the person making the decisions and I sit 2 buildings away from the  remaining GEM folks.     --   John Reagan ' Compaq Pascal/{A|I}MACRO Project Leader  Hewlett-Packard Company    ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 01 Jun 2002 15:03:55 GMT & From: John Reagan <john.reagan@hp.com>J Subject: Re: "Recode in another language", was: RE: VAX to ia64 migration?% Message-ID: <3CF8E100.4070805@hp.com>    JF Mezei wrote:   P > Since Curly sold its compilers and compiler engineers as slaves to Intel, then > there is no choice.  > P > Remember that this was part of the June 25 announcement. In IA64, Compaq wouldH > use "industry standard" compilers and the onles on Alpha would just be) > maintained to ensure they still worked.  > J > When VMS lost its proprietary compilers, it lost an edge it had over itsP > competitors. Digital's compilers were tuned not only to the hardware, but also( > the debugger and the operating system. > ? > It remains to be seen how Intel's compilers will work on VMS.  >   > You know, I'm getting really tired of answering this question.  F Compaq didn't sell ALL of its compiler engineers to Intel.  I've been H working on compilers for Digital, then Compaq, and now H-P for just shy C under 19 years now.  Compaq kept several GEM folks to maintain the  E existing code base and to ensure high-quality as we move to Itanium.  I Compaq kept several front-end compiler folks to maintain and enhance the   compiler front-ends.  H Compaq didn't sell ALL of its compilers to Intel.  While I haven't seen D the exact wording, except for variants of Fortran, I don't think we % "sold" any of our compilers to Intel.   C The Alpha-based compilers will always be GEM-based.  We will fully  I support those compilers and enhance them as needed.  The latest versions  ; of the Alpha compilers take full advantage of the EV7 chip.   H The Itanium-based compilers will mostly be GEM-based.  Some will remain H GEM-based forever I'd guess (Intel doesn't make a BLISS compiler :-) ). H   Others may migrate to Intel's compilers when we can ensure that those H compilers have the right features and are can work properly with things  like the debuggers and OS.  D Speaking of debuggers, note that with the switch to DWARF for debug F information, it really isn't "is the compiler tuned to the debugger", H but "is the debugger tuned to DWARF".  By using DWARF, the debugger may D end up debugging code from several different code generators in the  years to come.     --   John Reagan ' Compaq Pascal/{A|I}MACRO Project Leader  Hewlett-Packard Company    ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 01 Jun 2002 15:04:58 GMT & From: John Reagan <john.reagan@hp.com>J Subject: Re: "Recode in another language", was: RE: VAX to ia64 migration?% Message-ID: <3CF8E140.2070607@hp.com>    Tom Linden wrote:  > G > Which other languages besides PL/I, that have been spun out, use GEM?    None that I'm aware of.      --   John Reagan ' Compaq Pascal/{A|I}MACRO Project Leader  Hewlett-Packard Company    ------------------------------  $ Date: Sat, 1 Jun 2002 08:02:08 -0700# From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> J Subject: RE: "Recode in another language", was: RE: VAX to ia64 migration?9 Message-ID: <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIEELFFBAA.tom@kednos.com>    >-----Original Message----- . >From: John Reagan [mailto:john.reagan@hp.com]& >Sent: Saturday, June 01, 2002 8:04 AM >To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com@ >Subject: Re: "Recode in another language", was: RE: VAX to ia64 >migration?  >  >  >JF Mezei wrote: > B >> Since Curly sold its compilers and compiler engineers as slaves >to Intel, then  >> there is no choice. >>> >> Remember that this was part of the June 25 announcement. In >IA64, Compaq would I >> use "industry standard" compilers and the onles on Alpha would just be * >> maintained to ensure they still worked. >>K >> When VMS lost its proprietary compilers, it lost an edge it had over its > >> competitors. Digital's compilers were tuned not only to the >hardware, but also ) >> the debugger and the operating system.  >>@ >> It remains to be seen how Intel's compilers will work on VMS. >> > ? >You know, I'm getting really tired of answering this question.  > F >Compaq didn't sell ALL of its compiler engineers to Intel.  I've beenH >working on compilers for Digital, then Compaq, and now H-P for just shyC >under 19 years now.  Compaq kept several GEM folks to maintain the E >existing code base and to ensure high-quality as we move to Itanium. I >Compaq kept several front-end compiler folks to maintain and enhance the  >compiler front-ends.  > H >Compaq didn't sell ALL of its compilers to Intel.  While I haven't seenD >the exact wording, except for variants of Fortran, I don't think we& >"sold" any of our compilers to Intel. > C >The Alpha-based compilers will always be GEM-based.  We will fully I >support those compilers and enhance them as needed.  The latest versions < >of the Alpha compilers take full advantage of the EV7 chip. > H >The Itanium-based compilers will mostly be GEM-based.  Some will remainH >GEM-based forever I'd guess (Intel doesn't make a BLISS compiler :-) ).H >  Others may migrate to Intel's compilers when we can ensure that thoseH >compilers have the right features and are can work properly with things >like the debuggers and OS.  > D >Speaking of debuggers, note that with the switch to DWARF for debugF >information, it really isn't "is the compiler tuned to the debugger",H >but "is the debugger tuned to DWARF".  By using DWARF, the debugger mayD >end up debugging code from several different code generators in the >years to come.   I The danger is that some of the Symbol information may be overlooked.  You  may G recall that the early alpha chips were designed by engineers who didn't I understand that it had to run more than C code that was always aligned on I natural boundaries.  My point is that without some form of peer review of  the J contents of the Dwarf layout,  some things may well be overlooked, such asK support for varying strings.  (just out of curiosity HP pascal had a 4 byte  prefix+ on strings, as I recall, what do you have?)      >  >  >--  >John Reagan( >Compaq Pascal/{A|I}MACRO Project Leader >Hewlett-Packard Company >  >---' >Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. ; >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). A >Version: 6.0.363 / Virus Database: 201 - Release Date: 5/21/2002  >  --- & Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.: Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).@ Version: 6.0.363 / Virus Database: 201 - Release Date: 5/21/2002   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 01 Jun 2002 16:55:38 GMT & From: John Reagan <john.reagan@hp.com>J Subject: Re: "Recode in another language", was: RE: VAX to ia64 migration?% Message-ID: <3CF8FB30.8090001@hp.com>    Tom Linden wrote:   K > The danger is that some of the Symbol information may be overlooked.  You  > may I > recall that the early alpha chips were designed by engineers who didn't K > understand that it had to run more than C code that was always aligned on K > natural boundaries.  My point is that without some form of peer review of  > the L > contents of the Dwarf layout,  some things may well be overlooked, such asM > support for varying strings.  (just out of curiosity HP pascal had a 4 byte  > prefix- > on strings, as I recall, what do you have?)   " You can read all about DWARF V3 at  + http://www.eagercon.com/dwarf/dwarf3std.htm   C As for Pascal's VARYING strings, we use DTYPE_VT which specifies a  H leading 16-bit length word.  We can describe these in DWARF V3 (so I've ' been told, I'm not an expert... yet...)    --   John Reagan ' Compaq Pascal/{A|I}MACRO Project Leader  Hewlett-Packard Company    ------------------------------   Date: 1 Jun 2002 08:56:29 -0700 $ From: JKoska@bender.com (John Koska)' Subject: Re: Adding drives to SAN/HSG80 = Message-ID: <aa5ec19e.0206010756.602bf197@posting.google.com>   \ John Santos <JOHN@egh.com> wrote in message news:<1020530183040.359A-100000@Ives.egh.com>...( > On Thu, 30 May 2002, Rick Dyson wrote: .  .  . D > I had the same question about adding disks to an HSZ80 a few weeks+ > ago, and someone pointed me a document at  > e > http://wwss1pro.compaq.com/support/reference_library/viewdocument.asp?source=OD011115_CW01.xml&dt=3  >  > (That probably wrapped.) .  .  . @ > P.S.  Thanks again, whoever the helpful person was who pointed
 > me at this.   C I think that was me from what checking I did in the archives.  Your F thanks is welcome.  comp.os.vms has almost always been a helpful place< for my questions, and I like to return something when I can.  
 John Koska Matthew Bender & Co., Inc.   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 01 Jun 2002 10:47:05 -0400 ( From: David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>; Subject: Re: Blocking maile (waOh My God Help Me Please!!!) , Message-ID: <3CF8DE69.5080304@tsoft-inc.com>   Paul Repacholi wrote:   9 > David Beatty <David.Beatty@qwertysasasdfgh.com> writes:  >  >  >>Amendment IV >> >    > @ >>The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses,	 >>papers,  >> >    > D >>and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall notD >>be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause,C >>supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the ? >>place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.  >> > H > Are they planning to post this in airports when the Federals take over
 > `security'?  >  >   O Ha!  They'll just re-define the definition of 'unreasonable'.  Isn't that what   the zealous always do?   Dave3    ------------------------------    Date: 01 Jun 2002 10:41:37 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>F Subject: Re: China to launch cyber attacks soon, be on VMS or bye-bye!0 Message-ID: <87k7pj67q6.fsf@k9.prep.synonet.com>  3 "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com> writes:   7 > "Bob Ceculski" <bob@instantwhip.com> wrote in message 9 > news:d7791aa1.0205310937.1df2b150@posting.google.com... ? > > if you are not on VMS, this should scare you, esp. the last 2 > > paragraph for all you freebie os promoters ...  J > Why would our "Strategic Partner" (Clinton's words, not mine) want to do > this?   B Upset because `our friend' (that's your friend ;) ) is getting all the attention?   --  < Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda. @                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------   Date: 1 Jun 2002 08:19:01 -0700 ' From: Doran167W@aol.com (Doran Werling) F Subject: Re: China to launch cyber attacks soon, be on VMS or bye-bye!= Message-ID: <d7aafdca.0206010719.7d4dbb85@posting.google.com>   v Fabio Cardoso <fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br> wrote in message news:<20020531194830.76598.qmail@web20210.mail.yahoo.com>...3 > Why americans are so paranoids ???? Poor chinese,  > iranians..... > You should look for their  "enemies" between4 > the US militaries... they waste billion of dollars > with4 > these computer toys....this money should be useful. > to finish the starving of the own americans. >  > 	 > Regards  >  > FC     >     K When civilian airliners full of innocent people start flying into buildings   in Brazil, then come talk to us.     - Doran Werling 
   RW/SCS Inc.    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 01 Jun 2002 11:07:48 +0300 * From: Mike Rechtman <rechtman@tzora.co.il># Subject: Re: Console graphics reset * Message-ID: <3CF880D4.7030806@tzora.co.il>  # Could you be referring to CTRL-F2 ?  Mike   Didier Morandi wrote:     > <ESC>(0 turns on graphics mode > <ESC>(B turns it off >  > JR McKenzie wrote: > K >>How do you get the console back into graphics mode after it has switch to H >>character cell and is no longer functional? There used to be a control1 >>sequence if I remember right....senior moments.o  >>any help would be appreciated. >>     -- e  & New to c.o.vms? allow me to recommend:6 http://eisner.encompasserve.org/~rechtman/post_hlp.htmE --------------------------------------------------------------------- E Usual disclaimer: All opinions are mine alone, perhaps not even that.C? Mike Rechtman                            *rechtman@tzora.co.il*eE Kibbutz Tzor'a.                          Voice (home):(972)-2-9908337tC    "20% of a job takes 80% of the time, the rest takes another 80%" E ---------------------------------------------------------------------i   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 01 Jun 2002 11:37:19 +0200 - From: Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@Free.fr>t# Subject: Re: Console graphics reset ' Message-ID: <3CF895D0.D9E09FDC@Free.fr>    What is CTRL F2 ?f   D.   Mike Rechtman wrote: > % > Could you be referring to CTRL-F2 ?T > Mike > L > >How do you get the console back into graphics mode after it has switch toI > >character cell and is no longer functional? There used to be a controlr2 > >sequence if I remember right....senior moments." > >any help would be appreciated..   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 01 Jun 2002 13:08:13 +0300a* From: Mike Rechtman <rechtman@tzora.co.il># Subject: Re: Console graphics resetn* Message-ID: <3CF89D0D.7040504@tzora.co.il>  E IIRC, to swich a DECwindows console between graphics and non-graphics    Mike   Didier Morandi wrote:    > What is CTRL F2 ?c >  > D. >  > Mike Rechtman wrote: > % >>Could you be referring to CTRL-F2 ?  >>Mike >> >>L >>>How do you get the console back into graphics mode after it has switch toI >>>character cell and is no longer functional? There used to be a controle2 >>>sequence if I remember right....senior moments." >>>any help would be appreciated.. >>>l     --    & New to c.o.vms? allow me to recommend:6 http://eisner.encompasserve.org/~rechtman/post_hlp.htmE ---------------------------------------------------------------------aE Usual disclaimer: All opinions are mine alone, perhaps not even that.o? Mike Rechtman                            *rechtman@tzora.co.il*yE Kibbutz Tzor'a.                          Voice (home):(972)-2-9908337nC    "20% of a job takes 80% of the time, the rest takes another 80%"eE ---------------------------------------------------------------------y   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 01 Jun 2002 15:07:34 GMTi# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>); Subject: Re: Data redundancy options for 3000 foot distance/I Message-ID: <Wq5K8.159455$ah_.40293@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>a  K If any apps are based on an RDBMS and you are using two-phase commit across2F the machine/sites, you could run into a situation where a txn fails to" commit due to one site going down.  K Each DBMS vendor can advise you of techniques specific to their products tow avoid this issue.   D From ages old memory, I believe that ACMS / Tuxedo / etc.. also have  constructs than can aid in this.      3 "Rich Jordan" <jordan@ccs4vms.com> wrote in messagee7 news:cc5619f2.0205311312.6803db8b@posting.google.com...sF > Two sites, about 3000' apart, single mode dark fiber, multiple pairsD > available, with connecting equipment to be determined based on the > following need.i >oH > Looking for a 'primary' site with a DS20e box and local storage, and aH > 'backup' site with a DS10 and equivalent storage, running OpenVMS V7.3F > (or newer) and applications that are mostly based on RMS  and OracleB > Codasyl DBMS (used to be DEC's).  The backup site will be a 'hotF > standby', not used unless the main goes down, and in that case wouldD > still see less load (hence the smaller system).  An outage must beH > assumed to incapacitate an entire site, not just the server, so havingG > all storage at one site (on fiber) is not acceptable.  Ideal would bekG > 100% same time data consistency across the link, but price may decide2H > on a 'slower' method that might require some manner of recovery on theB > backup site before it goes live.  This is not a large data site;E > initial plans for a standalone server had 6 each 18GB spindles, and11 > actual current data usage is around 24GB total.y >0: > Depending on the capabilities and bandwidth of the fiber? > communications, one option might be to cluster and use volumeiH > shadowing.  That leaves us with a 'symmetrical' 2 node cluster withoutH > redundant quorum disk access (since you can't shadow the quorum disk),E > so the 'backup' system has to be a 'slave' node with fewer votes ineD > order to have a safe/survivable cluster where the primary node can- > survive the loss of the backup site/server.i >eD > Our lowball option is have the two sites standalone with a nightlyG > 'batch update' of the backup site.  Much cheaper.  Alternatives would G > involve significant modifications to existing programs and procedures G > to (perhaps) involve some kind of journaling that could be applied toRD > the backup at more frequent intervals.  I do not believe an optionB > that involves significant software overhauls will be considered. ><C > I do not have experience with fiber channel or equivalent storage>G > technologies.  Assuming appropriate equipment is available to connecteE > a SAN across the fiber, what types of equipment would we be lookinghG > for?  I've used HSZ controllers on standalone and shared-bus systems,uE > but never the HSG units; do they provide any capability to 'mirror'l > across the distance involved?b >eC > Any recommendation on good reading material to get up to speed onpG > (OpenVMS compatible) fiber storage would also be appreciated.  Once I'C > get the shadowing items corrected (earlier post) I'll be perusingaE > compaq.com anyway, but it'd be nice to get targetted on the meat of-
 > the matter.- >-" > Mining Usenet for 'new' stuff... >r
 > Rich Jordano   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 01 Jun 2002 11:31:17 +0300,* From: Mike Rechtman <rechtman@tzora.co.il> Subject: Re: fortran* Message-ID: <3CF88655.8030200@tzora.co.il>  
 How about:' sort a -> a1     $SORT file1.x tmp1.tmp.' sort b -> b1     $SORT file2.x tmp2.tmp29 diff a1, b1      $DIFF tmp1.x tmp2.x  /MATCH=0 /OUT=dif.xt  # sorry, no visible fortran involved.e Mike   Chuck Aaron wrote:  H > No,...no class assignment. I have 884 8 digit records in one text fileC > (i.e. px000001) and want to compare it against another file (i.e.nF > px000001) with similar entries but only 566 total. I need to compareG > the orig to the 566 total and list the one's that do not match. Sure,0G > I can write a quick program but I'd like to see how this is done with  > the diff command.t > 	 > Thanks,, > Chuckr >  > "Barry Treahy, Jr." wrote: > F >>Why don't you just use the difference command?  Anyway, this is veryI >>basic fortran coding that if you have a compiler, you should be able toaI >>write in less than a dozen lines of code...  You're not dodging a classs >>assignment are you ? :-) >> >>Barryd >> >>Chuck Aaron wrote: >> >>I >>>Does anyone have a copy of a sequential read fortran program that will H >>>read the one file and compare the entries to another and spit out the >>>diff? >>>n	 >>>Thankso >>>i >>>John  >>>a >>>. >>>o >>>u >>>o >>-- >>A >>Barry Treahy, Jr  *  Midwest Microwave  *  Vice President & CIOd >>C >>E-mail: Treahy@mmaz.com * Phone: 480/314-1320 * FAX: 480/661-7028o >>     -- t  & New to c.o.vms? allow me to recommend:6 http://eisner.encompasserve.org/~rechtman/post_hlp.htmE ---------------------------------------------------------------------eE Usual disclaimer: All opinions are mine alone, perhaps not even that.-? Mike Rechtman                            *rechtman@tzora.co.il*eE Kibbutz Tzor'a.                          Voice (home):(972)-2-9908337 C    "20% of a job takes 80% of the time, the rest takes another 80%"tE ---------------------------------------------------------------------h   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 01 Jun 2002 15:09:48 GMTy# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>  Subject: Re: Open Letter to HPJ Message-ID: <0t5K8.159456$ah_.154959@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>  > "Jerry Leslie" <LESLIE@JRLVAX.HOUSTON.RR.COM> wrote in message6 news:aYWJ8.137032$9F5.7857936@typhoon.austin.rr.com... wrote: >nE > If Sun is lurking in this newsgroup, don't be surprised if they use 1 > this general idea for one of their commercials.a >m  J Probably by Monday evening at the latest. They are pretty quick to respond to events, unlike ComHpaq.   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 01 Jun 2002 15:17:44 GMT # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>M Subject: Re: Open Letter to HPJ Message-ID: <sA5K8.173787$t8_.117498@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>  8 "Rob Young" <young_r@encompasserve.org> wrote in message- news:twh$8ayzC36U@eisner.encompasserve.org...i >rC > The point is - for niche or vertical products - it is a very rare A > thing for the marketing folks to wander outside a narrow mediumoB > to impress upon the general population.  Direct marketing is allA > the rage now and CRM is helping to narrow things.  Gone are thedF > days when we all get our mailboxes stuffed with flyers.  CommercialsE > that run during Friends are way different then commercials that rune > on MTV, etc. >w  I That's why the ads MUST target CEO's in the publications THEY read - Walln2 Street Journal, Financial Times, Economist, etc...    = HP has to get the CEO's etc.. interested in VMS or it's dead.   C If Joe IT-guy tries to push VMS up through lower to middle to upper-L management, it'll take a year of Sunday's to get it to the level it needs toI get at to become visible, and that's assuming that Joe IT-guy isn't fired?E for not being a 'team player' first. [ps. If Carly doesn't think thisr' happens, then she's smoking & inhaling]h  H If the CEO says, "Rob, I want the IT department to fully investigate theK benefits of using VMS in our organization.", resources get allocated to theRL task immediately and the CEO keeps hounding Rob for the recommendation until he gets it.    ------------------------------   Date: 1 Jun 2002 09:35:43 -0700 - From: jodonnell@hrblock.com (Jason O'Donnell)  Subject: Re: Open Letter to HP= Message-ID: <9059bf6b.0206010835.6ee67511@posting.google.com>k  U Jan-Erik Sderholm <aaa@aaa.com> wrote in message news:<3CF7AA76.1FAD41B4@aaa.com>...c > Just a minor problem...  >  > Jason O'Donnell wrote: > >  > > To Whom It May Concern:e > >  >  > [A lot of sensible writing !]  >  >  > > Jason O'DonnellnI > > The opinions expressed above are my own and not necessarily the views  > > of my employers. > I > That's the problem. I think it would have had more strength if it *had*e > been your employers opinion !e >  > Jan-Erik Sderholm.h  C That is a standard disclaimer.  Our company does not use OpenVMS inrD much of its organization at all.  There are economies of scale if weE move to the more commonly used hardware/OS in our company.  I am surerC we would have been moved off OpenVMS before now if the porting coste9 was not so prohibitive.  We have had porting quotes done.a   ------------------------------   Date: 1 Jun 2002 09:49:36 -0700f- From: jodonnell@hrblock.com (Jason O'Donnell)s Subject: Re: Open Letter to HP= Message-ID: <9059bf6b.0206010849.4402cff3@posting.google.com>s   > Jason, > B > 	I agree with much of what you say, but I do believe advertisingD > 	should be targetted.  It is for other similar high-end OSes, i.e.C > 	AS/400, mainframes and NSK and when was the last time you saw a 0F > 	Rolls-Royce, Lamborghini, etc. commercial on television?  They run , > 	ads in targetted publications - I assume. > B > 	A very good attempt to sway opinion was put together by a group@ > 	that worked months formulating ideas.  That piece - penned byA > 	Bill Todd with great amount of input from others - is found atd@ > 	the Google link below.  Advertizing ideas among other things. > 	 > 				Roba  F I am sorry, but I really disagree.  IBM markets their LINUX servers on0 TV, didn't they have some AS/400 spots way back?  C Television hits everyone, it establishes credibility of product andv its future.e  C Everyone will ask their company why are they not using OpenVMS whenh> their system crashes.  IT managers have to keep their internal customers happy.   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 01 Jun 2002 08:59:45 +0100dC From: "Bob Billing (AKA Uncle Bob)" <unclebob@tnglwood.demon.co.uk> + Subject: Re: OT: Units (was USofA'an coins) 4 Message-ID: <3CF87EF1.9157E17D@tnglwood.demon.co.uk>   Charles Richmond wrote:-  8 > "pieces of eight" in the pirate movies. These could be, > broken into eight pieces to make change...  H Hence "Pieces of eight, pieces of eight, pieces of nine. Parroty error."   -- oD I am Robert Billing, Christian, inventor, traveller, cook and animalB lover, I live near 0:46W 51:22N.  http://www.tnglwood.demon.co.uk/C "It burned me from within. It quickened; I was with book as a womanh5 is with child." CS Lewis - Till we have faces, Ch 21.q   ------------------------------   Date: 1 Jun 2002 06:10:34 -0700u( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)E Subject: Security breach lawsuits coming ... VMS can help prevent it! = Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0206010510.5d0be839@posting.google.com>u  9 This is why your web platform should be VMS, otherwise bee9 prepared to shelve out large sums of money to lawyers ...     0 Recent breaches raise specter of liability risks     By JAIKUMAR VIJAYAN  MAY 31, 2002   F Organizations that fail to show due diligence in protecting their data@ assets face a real risk of legal problems in the not-too-distant future, analysts said.? The renewed caution comes in the wake of reports this week thatgC hackers broke into a California state personnel database and gainedqE access to financial and confidential information on all 265,000 stateo8 government employees, including that of Gov. Gray Davis.  @ Incidents like this one and the recent theft of more than 13,000D confidential records from Costa Mesa, Calif.-based Experian, a majorC credit reporting agency (see story), are shining the spotlight moreiC brightly than ever on liability issues for companies doing businessl? over the Internet, warned Michael Rasmussen, an analyst at Gigah* Information Group Inc. in Cambridge, Mass.  B "The whole issue has gotten to a scale where companies face a realB risk of legal liability," he said. "There are going to be landmarkF cases where people are going to be suing other people. That is what is1 finally going to get the attention of companies."i  D In the California incident, a hacker broke into a database housed at> the state's Stephen P. Teale Data Center in Rancho Cordova andC accessed names, Social Security numbers and payroll information fort6 state employees ranging from office workers to judges.  = The break-in occurred April 5 and was discovered by the state F controller's office May 7. But it wasn't disclosed to the public untilD May 24. The handling of the incident has provoked criticism from theD California Union of Safety Employees (CAUSE), which criticized stateC controller Kathleen Connell for the delay in informing victims thati0 their personal information had been compromised.  C "It is an outrage that the controller herself has been negligent invC recognizing the peril posed by this high-tech invasion of privacy,"n3 CAUSE President Alan Barcelona said in a statement.e   Legal ramifications   D Connell's office refuted the criticism and said it had acted swiftlyE in asking the Sacramento Valley Hi-Tech Crime Task Force to conduct a  criminal investigation.o  B "It is the Teale Data Center and not the state controller's officeC that is solely responsible for the security breach, and that agencyh= has accepted full responsibility," Connell's office said in aI
 statement.  B Incidents such as these show why companies need to ensure they areC following best practices around security, said Rick Fleming, a vice ? president at Digital Defense Inc., a San Antonio-based security  consultancy.  F "It won't take too many more cases of folks enduring identity theft or; financial hardship for somebody to start suing," he warned.s   ------------------------------   Date: 1 Jun 02 06:29:01 PST  From: mckinneyj@cpva.saic.comc# Subject: Re: Shadow sets efficiencyt( Message-ID: <nM9+n8UtXYOt@cpva.saic.com>  / In article <3CF79958.8040406@xs4all.nospam.nl>, ,  Bart Zorn <B.Zorn@xs4all.nospam.nl> writes: > Alan E. Feldman wrote:n >> "Marc Van Dyck" <marc.vandyck@skynet.be> wrote in message news:<3cf5df5e$0$6963$ba620e4c@news.skynet.be>... >> n	 >>>Hello,n >>>eL >>>    We are replacing the old storageworks disks of one of our clusters by >>>new universalH >>>disks. This means we'll have to copy about 1 TB net of data. The data >>>storage is entirelyO >>>on shadow sets. What is the most efficient way (elapsed time optimisation) :- >>>-G >>>1) initialize the new shadow sets and copy the data directly to them1 >>>0 >>>orm >>>iL >>>2) copy the data on normal disks and re-mount them as shadow sets (with a >>>shadow copy) after ?F >>>eL >>>Also, when initializing a new shadow set, is there a way to do it without& >>>having a shadow copy taking place ?   No.    >>>  >>>Thanks in advance,r >>>s >>>Marc Van Dyck.s >>   >>  I >> In my previous post I said BACKUP/PHYSICAL does the same thing as does E >> a shadow copy operation. I stand corrected. It would be faster, inaE >> general. However, I still haven't tried it to see if the shadowing2H >> software would consider them both to be current members. I'll have to >> try it when I get a chance. >>   >> Disclaimer: JMHOr >> Alan E. Feldman% >> afeldman atski gfigroup dotski comp > K > I can't imagine that the shadowing software would accept the result of a  K > BACKUP/PHYSICAL as a valid shadowset member just because it has the same    K It won't... the generation number in the shadow control block matches, but, K the mount flag is also set. Since the SCB's mount flag is set the shadowingoL software will decide that a merge is required. I don't know if the shadowingG software will make the correct decision as to which device contains theeK authoritative data. This would be a problem if the desired source has been,-G or, is active other than the backup and merge operations. Any potentialmH problem here could be avoided by simply initializing the volume that wasM created using a physical backup. An unqualified INITIALIZE will just recreate L the volume label and reserved files. The remainder of the disk is unchanged.H If this is done then a shadow copy will be performed rather than a mergeL since the SCB is now absent. The copy will require very few write operationsL since, as others have pointed out, both the copy and merge functions performG a compare prior to any write and only write when a difference is found.5  I Whenever the composition of a shadow set changes the generation number ofnH the current members' SCB is incremented. So if a volume is dismounted orD removed due to a crash it's generation number would be less than theA remaining shadow members (whose generation numbers have just beenp= incremented). When it re-joins the shadow set it will requirelE a copy. While each shadow member is mounted into it's shadow set it'saM SCB's mount flag is set. If it is dismounted the flag is cleared. If a system J that is serving a disk crashes then the mount flag remains set. So too, ifF there are files open on this volume during system shutdown so that theC disk can not be properly dismounted. In either event, when the diskiF re-joins the shadow set a merge is required. Simple right? But what ifC the mount flag is set and the generation number differs? Well, the pG differing generation numbers take precedence. A copy would be performednB in all cases where the generation number is different (or absent).  E I suggest using the strategy from the following example if you decideeC to use BACKUP/PHYSICAL (unless you know that the shadow set will bem- static during the entire reformation process.e     $ SHOW DEVICE DSA2  P Device                  Device           Error    Volume         Free  Trans MntP  Name                   Status           Count     Label        Blocks Count CntP DSA2:                   Mounted              0  USER01          823815     1   1A $1$DIA2:      (R5IMFG)  ShadowSetMember      0  (member of DSA2:)   ' $ MOUNT/FOREIGN/OVERIDE=SHADOW $1$DIA3:n  $ BACKUP/PHYSICAL DSA2: $1$DIA3: $ DISMOUNT/NOUNLOAD $1$DIA3: $ INITIALIZE $1$DIA3: SHADOW+ $ MOUNT/SYSTEM DSA2:/SHADOW=$1$DIA3: USER02t   $ SHOW DEVICE DSA2  P Device                  Device           Error    Volume         Free  Trans MntP  Name                   Status           Count     Label        Blocks Count CntP DSA2:                   Mounted              0  USER01          823815     1   1A $1$DIA2:      (R5IMFG)  ShadowSetMember      0  (member of DSA2:)eM $1$DIA3:      (R5QLSA)  ShadowCopying        0  (copy trgt DSA2:   0% copied)i  G > generation number. Equal generation numbers are only valid when more kJ > than one member gets mounted into an empty (or not yet existing) shadow J > set. In the case that a volume gets added to a shadow set, the software K > will invalidate the new member and subject it to a copy operation. Being vH > the result of said BACKUP/PHYSICAL it will be an efficient copy since ? > only a relatively small number of blocks needs to be written.i >  > Bart Zornu >  >  >  --   - Jimo   ------------------------------   Date: 1 Jun 02 06:34:59 PST  From: mckinneyj@cpva.saic.comtK Subject: Re: Shadowset on standalone system goes into merge state on reboots( Message-ID: <7JLnzsL7uu11@cpva.saic.com>  = In article <cc5619f2.0205311230.6dc294ca@posting.google.com>, )  jordan@ccs4vms.com (Rich Jordan) writes: D > Standalone DS20e 67/667, OpenVMS Alpha V7.3 with all patches up toA > date as of 5/14/2002.  Six 'universal' 18GB, 10KRPM drives on a D > KZPCA-AA controller installed in the internal shelf, configured asG > three shadow sets of 2 spindles each.  There is currently about 3.5GB  > used on each shadowset.U > F > The 'last' shadowset DSA2 is going into 'merge' state after a systemE > shutdown and reboot.  DSA0 and DSA1 do not act this way.  The mergetA > took almost 40 hours to complete on a mostly idle system (after0D > restarting from 0% when the machine had to be shut down to move). G > Thankfully the system is not yet in production.  We will need to shut E > it down again on Monday for a final move, and it'd be better if thei& > set doesn't come up merging again... > E > We're wondering if, since DSA2 is the last volume dismounted by the0H > system, either some other process is still trying to act on the volumeG > when it is dismounted, or if the dismount doesn't actually 'complete'6E > before the system goes away.  This is the only box I have access tou@ > with shadowing, so unfortunately I can't do testing elsewhere. > F > While I get the shadowing docs printed out to make sure this box wasC > configured properly, and check the relevant parameters, any inputyH > would be appreciated.  DSNlink didn't appear to have anything relevantG > (the known merge-related problems apparently were in earlier versionsl
 > of VMS). > 
 > Rich Jordan)  H There is likely a file open on this disk when the system shutdown occursH that is preventing the disk from being dismounted. Insure that all filesH are closed (and perhaps explicitly dismount the disk rather than relyingI upon VMS to do it for you). Any chance that you've got a pagefile on this K disk? If so the best you can do is use SYSGEN to DEINSTALL it and hope that.K all reservations and usage of it disappear prior to the attempted dismount.s   --   - Jime   ------------------------------   Date: 1 Jun 2002 10:09:55 -0700-& From: jordan@ccs4vms.com (Rich Jordan)K Subject: Re: Shadowset on standalone system goes into merge state on rebootr< Message-ID: <cc5619f2.0206010909.445c470@posting.google.com>  Y JF Mezei <jfmezei@videotron.ca> wrote in message news:<3CF8089C.69D6CCD8@videotron.ca>...3 > Rich Jordan wrote:H > > The 'last' shadowset DSA2 is going into 'merge' state after a system< > > shutdown and reboot.  DSA0 and DSA1 do not act this way. > K > Have you tried dismounting the shadowset in the site specific procedure ?< > N > Or do you just let the system do the dismount with the proper abort bits setK > to make it dismount even if there are still opened files on it ? (such asS > installed files).m  E Thanks for responding.  This was a preconfigured system that we addednD some application software to and assisted in moving so I didn't haveE that detail handy.  The system is performing the dismounts by defaultbE during shutdown; there is no site specific dismounts or deinstalls oreE other relevant items (which have never been needed by our software on E non-shadowed systems), nor indication of same for the software on theRD system when we started our work.  I'll take a look to see what files? are open or installed on that shadowset and see if we can add aoE dismount for it to the site specific shutdown, or if any of the otherr: software has some method of shutdown/closing we can apply.   Rich Jordanh   ------------------------------   Date: 1 Jun 2002 09:10 CDT' From: carl@gerg.tamu.edu (Carl Perkins) # Subject: Re: TCPware 5.5 & CSWS 1.2n, Message-ID: <1JUN200209103225@gerg.tamu.edu>  , bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski) writes... }you want reliability, try& }purveyor, it was written for tcpware,   You say this a lot.a  A It does not appear to be true. As far as I can tell, Purveyor wasOB originally written for Windows NT and ported to VMS. It appears toB have been based on the free EMWAC web server, although it has beenA modified so much that it probably has very little of the originalu code left in its last version.  F The only way you could be right is if Process created a completely newE web server for VMS that they just gave the same name as their WindowsiE web server. This doesn't seem likely. It is probably more accurate tot? say that it was modified for tcpware when it was ported to VMS.,   --- Carl   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 01 Jun 2002 09:37:27 GMTr. From: peter@langstoeger.at (Peter LANGSTOEGER)L Subject: Re: visual formatting (was: Re: Mark Gorham's Beer Bash in Reading)3 Message-ID: <rB0K8.51329$305.655906@news.chello.at>a  w In article <01KIDSGGGABM96WE0C@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>, Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> writes: F >> I did say (loudly enough for Mark to hear I think), "Now if only itI >> was Star Office under VMS". Or probably Open Office unless Sun could etH >> persuaded to support the port themselves. Maybe that's what Andrew is >> really doing :-)  >> AG >> Star/Open Office would have no problem in createing/displaying theseo >> PowerPoint slides.m  E I do use StarOffice V5.2 on a NT5 system to display PowerPoint SlidestF I got from somewhere (like www.openvms.compaq.com) and I can say, that* there are various 'misbehaviours' therein.  H >Often, I've heard people say "I need PowerPoint" when they really mean G >"I need a programme to produce and display slides for a presentation". G >On VMS, or any other platform, one can of course produce slides with, r/ >say, LaTeX and display them with XDVI, GS etc.   H A year ago, at the DECUS Germany Symposium in Berlin, the Chaos ComputerJ Club founder/member and now one of the ICANN directors Andy Mueller MaguhnL did a presentation (on ICANN plans) with NETSCAPE and HTML/JPEG! I was quiteH surprised to see such an idea but I liked it very much, because he had aH lot of links included in his presentation which became very useful later. in the Handout/Symposiums-Sessions-Collection.  L The SUSE weenies a year before (presenting SUSE on Alpha) did use LINUX and 1 obviously not PowerPoint on their Notebooks also!m   -- o Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER % Network and OpenVMS system specialistm E-mail  peter@langstoeger.atP A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm looking for (a) Network _and_ VMS Job(s)   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 01 Jun 2002 06:09:27 -0400o% From: JF Mezei <jfmezei@videotron.ca>kL Subject: Re: visual formatting (was: Re: Mark Gorham's Beer Bash in Reading), Message-ID: <3CF89D56.C4712268@videotron.ca>  M Well, one could still use Aldus Persuasion (Adobe did not pursue this product  when it bought Aldus).   :-)i  L Another option is to use a graphics package such as Freehand or Illustrator.  N One which makes it fairly easy to generate interesting presentations is FLASH.G You can have fancy animations, and you just add a couple of buttons for, navigation to the next "slide".m  K I did a whole presentation to a customer I could not meet once on flash andOK just emailed the flash file that was complete with narrative to explain the.N proposed architecture (with animations to show how the current system would be4 transformed, step by step into the proposed system).   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 01 Jun 2002 11:34:21 GMTy1 From: CSABA  HARANGOZO   <csabah@zipworld.com.au>n, Subject: Re: [Change topic]:  USofA'an coins7 Message-ID: <1j2K8.2910$06.382921@nasal.pacific.net.au>   ! AG <a_n_g@x_t_r_a.c_o.n_z> wrote:e  > >> For everyone, I guess. If I go shopping let's say 10 times,> >> chances are I will be rounded down 5 times, and 5 times up.  F > No, sorry. Chances are you would not. You assume an even statistical= > distribution in the above but the dice is loaded of course.t: > (Anyone ever saw a 4.001 price as opposed to the 3.999?)  < 	No, I think we are talking about different things. I am not9 	saying that you buy the _same_ item 5 times or 10 times. @ 	I should have said that, you go to the supermarket, and buy allA 	the different items you want. But the prices of these items endso@ 	in all kind numbers, from 1.01, 1.02, 1.03,... 1.09, 2.00, 2.01? 	etc. At the checkout all your bread, milk, vegies, beer, etc.  ? 	added up, and say you have a total of $13.87. _This_ amount is D 	rounded ( in this case down to 13.85 ), dependig on the last digit.? 	Next time you go shopping again, and this time the total comest1 	out as $25.33, this will be rounded up to 25.35.G= 	So in the first time you "gained" 2 cents, the next time youo? 	"lost" it, so you are even. And you can project this for ever,d@ 	the statistics will be that from 100 shopping trips, the totals> 	will be rounded down about 50 times and up 50 times. ( We canB 	ignore the cases when the it ends in 0 or 5, as we pay that exact) 	amount with the 5 cents we still have. )u   [...snip...]   	I hope this is clearer now... 						Cheers,   Csabae  I    ----------------------------------------------------------------------oE    * Csaba I. Harangozo     |    'To err is human', said the hedgehogaE    * csabah@zipworld.com.au |           as he dismounted a wirebrush.tI    ----------------------------------------------------------------------';    EARTH::AUSTRALIA:[SYDNEY]HARANGOZO.CSABA;1, delete? [N]:d   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2002.302 ************************ office workers to judges.  = The break-in occurred April 5 and was discovered by the state F controller's office May 7. But it wasn't disclosed to the public untilD May 24. The handling of the incident has provoked criticism from theD California Union of Safety Employees (CAUSE), which criticized stateC controller Kathleen Connell for the delay in informing victims thati0 their personal information h                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                