1 INFO-VAX	Wed, 05 Jun 2002	Volume 2002 : Issue 310       Contents:A Re: "Recode in another language", was: RE: VAX to ia64 migration? A Re: "Recode in another language", was: RE: VAX to ia64 migration? A RE: "Recode in another language", was: RE: VAX to ia64 migration? A Re: "Recode in another language", was: RE: VAX to ia64 migration?  Re: %DECthreads bugcheck3 Re: Another analyst says VMS port won't be finished  Re: Challenge: Find The Fault  Re: Could linux become VMS?  Re: Could linux become VMS?  Re: Could linux become VMS?  Re: Could linux become VMS? / Re: CSWB (was RE: OpenVMS FAQ due next week...)  Re: DEFINE/TRANS=CONC  RE: DEFINE/TRANS=CONC  Re: DFO and ODS-5  Re: DFO and ODS-5  Re: ES45 and VMS  7.2-1  Re: ES45 and VMS  7.2-1  Re: ES45 and VMS  7.2-1  Re: ES45 and VMS  7.2-1 ) Re: For all you hobbyists: IDE on SCSI !! ; HP Canada "Optimize IT Conference & Showcase National Tour" ? Re: HP Canada "Optimize IT Conference & Showcase National Tour"  Re: HP Layoffs have begun  Re: HP Layoffs have begun  Re: HP Layoffs have begun  Re: Inquirer says Alpha lives?- Re: Intel to start to advertise even more :-( 2 Re: Is Polycenter for VMS a good security product?2 Re: Is Polycenter for VMS a good security product?6 Re: It works by itself since ages, why would I change?6 Re: It works by itself since ages, why would I change?6 Re: It works by itself since ages, why would I change?6 Re: It works by itself since ages, why would I change?6 Re: It works by itself since ages, why would I change? IT world becoming like lawyers?  LBR$ (library) condition values # Re: LBR$ (library) condition values 2 Re: Linux gains acceptance at expense of Microsoft2 Re: Linux gains acceptance at expense of Microsoft& Re: Mark Gorham's Beer Bash in Reading& Re: Mark Gorham's Beer Bash in Reading& Re: Mark Gorham's Beer Bash in Reading Re: Newsreader for OpenVMS 7.2 Re: No new Alpha sales Re: No new Alpha sales Re: No new Alpha sales Re: Open Letter to HP  Re: Open Letter to HP  Re: Open Letter to HP  Re: Open Letter to HP * Re: Open-source poses security risks - Da! RE: OVMS Web Ring " Re: Quick shareable image question# Re: Simulate hardware failure. How? # Re: Simulate hardware failure. How? # Re: Simulate hardware failure. How?  Storage of Conslidated MediaP Re: The Press and the IA-64 Port (was Re: Another analyst says VMS port won't beP Re: The Press and the IA-64 Port (was Re: Another analyst says VMS port won't beP Re: The Press and the IA-64 Port (was Re: Another analyst says VMS port won't beP Re: The Press and the IA-64 Port (was Re: Another analyst says VMS port won't beP Re: The Press and the IA-64 Port (was Re: Another analyst says VMS port won't beP Re: The Press and the IA-64 Port (was Re: Another analyst says VMS port won't beP Re: The Press and the IA-64 Port (was Re: Another analyst says VMS port won't be, Re: TPS and Max I/O. How are the calculated?, Re: TPS and Max I/O. How are the calculated?' Re: UAF files on Fibre disks and v7.2-1 ' Re: UAF files on Fibre disks and v7.2-1  Urgent News Flash 1 Re: Who does the CLUEXIT? (was Re: Strange crash) 5 Re: Would you like to see this on the VMS freeware CD # Re: [Change topic]:  USofA'an coins   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 05 Jun 2002 15:12:10 +0200 ' From: JOUKJ <joukj@hrem.stm.tudelft.nl> J Subject: Re: "Recode in another language", was: RE: VAX to ia64 migration?2 Message-ID: <3CFE0E2A.3020304@hrem.stm.tudelft.nl>   John Reagan wrote: > JF Mezei wrote:  > H >> That is not the question. The question to ask is whether existing VMS, >> compilers will continue to be developped. >>E >> The announcement on June25  lead me to believe thatr compilers on  
 >> Alpha were 5 >> to become mature with only maintenance being done   >  > K > That is true from a code generator and optimization standpoint.  With no  H > new Alphas coming after EV7, there isn't much left to do.  The latest G > version of GEM for Alpha squeezes almost everything out to the chip.  G >  From a language point of view, we may still add new features to the  J > various compilers for standards compliance, customer satisfaction, etc. A >  Alpha code generator development has stopped.  Alpha compiler   > development has not.; Does this mean that there are plans for F2000 on VMS-Alpha?                  Jouk   ------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2002 12:11:13 -0400& From: "Ed Vogel" <ed.vogel@compaq.com>J Subject: Re: "Recode in another language", was: RE: VAX to ia64 migration?* Message-ID: <3cfe390c@hpb10302.boi.hp.com>  : "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message& news:3CFD2BA9.E6CB491C@videotron.ca... | G | That is not the question. The question to ask is whether existing VMS + | compilers will continue to be developped.  | I | The announcement on June25  lead me to believe thatr compilers on Alpha  wereF | to become mature with only maintenance being done and that VMS would inherit ? | whatvere compilers Intel wants to make for IA64 with whatever 
 modificatiosn % | are needed to make them run on VMS.   (     Speaking for the projects I work on:  L     We continue to develop Compaq C and C++ for VMS (and Tru64/Linux).  Most members J     of the front-end team did not transfer to Intel.  We are continuing to add featuresL     to these products.  Speaking for C (which I'm most familiar with), these include J     adding features required by the C99 standard, and language features to make3     Compaq C more compatible with the gcc compiler.   L     We *do* plan future releases of Compaq C and C++ on Alpha that will haveL     new language features.  This is in addition to production "recompile and go" !     compilers for OpenVMS on IPF.      Ed Vogel   Compaq C Engineering   ------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2002 09:36:55 -0700# From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> J Subject: RE: "Recode in another language", was: RE: VAX to ia64 migration?9 Message-ID: <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIGEAKFCAA.tom@kednos.com>   C Ed, I saw i a mail from Hoff the other day that // is now a comment ? delimiter in C,  Is this going to be part of the ANSI standard? . Why introduce to C just because it is in C++ ?   >-----Original Message----- , >From: Ed Vogel [mailto:ed.vogel@compaq.com]' >Sent: Wednesday, June 05, 2002 9:11 AM  >To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com@ >Subject: Re: "Recode in another language", was: RE: VAX to ia64 >migration?  >  >  > ; >"JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message ' >news:3CFD2BA9.E6CB491C@videotron.ca...  >|H >| That is not the question. The question to ask is whether existing VMS, >| compilers will continue to be developped. >|J >| The announcement on June25  lead me to believe thatr compilers on Alpha >were G >| to become mature with only maintenance being done and that VMS would  >inherit@ >| whatvere compilers Intel wants to make for IA64 with whatever >modificatiosn& >| are needed to make them run on VMS. > ) >    Speaking for the projects I work on:  > : >    We continue to develop Compaq C and C++ for VMS (and  >Tru64/Linux).  Most >membersK >    of the front-end team did not transfer to Intel.  We are continuing to 
 >add features A >    to these products.  Speaking for C (which I'm most familiar  
 >with), these  >includeK >    adding features required by the C99 standard, and language features to  >make 4 >    Compaq C more compatible with the gcc compiler. > D >    We *do* plan future releases of Compaq C and C++ on Alpha that 
 >will have? >    new language features.  This is in addition to production   >"recompile and  >go"" >    compilers for OpenVMS on IPF. >  > 	 >Ed Vogel  >  >Compaq C Engineering  >  >  >  >  >  >---' >Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. ; >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). A >Version: 6.0.363 / Virus Database: 201 - Release Date: 5/21/2002  >  --- & Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.: Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).@ Version: 6.0.363 / Virus Database: 201 - Release Date: 5/21/2002   ------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2002 13:08:40 -0400& From: "Ed Vogel" <ed.vogel@compaq.com>J Subject: Re: "Recode in another language", was: RE: VAX to ia64 migration?* Message-ID: <3cfe4714@hpb10302.boi.hp.com>  . "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> wrote in message3 news:CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIGEAKFCAA.tom@kednos.com... E | Ed, I saw i a mail from Hoff the other day that // is now a comment A | delimiter in C,  Is this going to be part of the ANSI standard? 0 | Why introduce to C just because it is in C++ ? |        Tom,  4     Yes, // comments are now part of the C standard.  A     Not being on the Standard committee, I can only guess why the E     feature was added, but I expect it was added partially because of 4     C++.  Some other C++ features added in C90 were:  @         .Placing a declaration after a statement within a block.=         .Allowing declarations to be part of a for statement:              for (int x = 1....) 0         .long long ints (I think this is in C++)  <     The Compaq C compiler has supported these for some time.  *                                         Ed   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 05 Jun 2002 12:59:32 GMT . From: ">>> ^P" <plj@NOSPAM.byron.ext.telia.se>! Subject: Re: %DECthreads bugcheck 9 Message-ID: <3CFE0B34.107A7691@NOSPAM.byron.ext.telia.se>   0 Overflow on wait, could that be stack overflow ?  	 >>> ^P.Lj      Jakob Erber skrev:   > Hello, > N > 2 of our processes chrashed almost at the same time. can somebody see, if we! > are doing something wrong here?  >  > best regards > 
 > Jakob Erber  > B > %DECthreads bugcheck (version V3.15-266), terminating execution.: > % Reason:  cond 0x00000000015E13A0 ref. overflow on wait7 > (0x0183F799:0x06FACBD1:0x00005811:0x0000000001496D60) J > % Running on OpenVMS V7.2-1H1 on Compaq AlphaServer ES40, 1024Mb; 2 CPUsC > % The bugcheck occurred at 03-JUN-2002 15:30:14.28, running image I > %  $1$DKC1:[KUKO140.][RPC.RUNTIME_AXP]AUT_SHELL.EXE in process 2A615472  > (namedL > %  "BE_IZV_6"), under username "KOBE_STARTUP". AST delivery is enabled for > all M > %  modes; no ASTs active. Upcalls are disabled. Multiple kernel threads are  > %  disabled.; > % The current thread sequence number is 10, at 0x0160FB40  > %  Current thread traceback:9 > %     0:  PC 0x7BAA5B38, FP 0x0160D060, DESC 0x7BA87BE8 9 > %     1:  PC 0x7BA9D910, FP 0x0160D140, DESC 0x7BA86BD0 9 > %     2:  PC 0x7BA9BA00, FP 0x0160D210, DESC 0x7BA86E00 9 > %     3:  PC 0x7C4A45BC, FP 0x0160D230, DESC 0x7C4988D0 9 > %     4:  PC 0x7C4A64D8, FP 0x0160D260, DESC 0x7C499F10 9 > %     5:  PC 0x01210998, FP 0x0160D280, DESC 0x010AC6B0 9 > %     6:  PC 0x0116D394, FP 0x0160D4A0, DESC 0x01092A20 9 > %     7:  PC 0x011852F8, FP 0x0160D510, DESC 0x010966C8 9 > %     8:  PC 0x01183E6C, FP 0x0160D760, DESC 0x01096890 9 > %     9:  PC 0x011838E4, FP 0x0160DA00, DESC 0x010969A0 9 > %    10:  PC 0x7BAB72FC, FP 0x0160DDA0, DESC 0x7BA8A0A8 9 > %    11:  PC 0x7BAA7504, FP 0x0160DFE0, DESC 0x7BA88480 9 > %    12:  PC 0x00000000, FP 0x7AD35A60, DESC 0x7BA864B0 9 > %    13:  PC 0xA56C53F4, FP 0x7AD39B30, DESC 0xA56C7CF0 9 > %    14:  PC 0x7AE7F52C, FP 0x7AD39BB0, DESC 0x7AE56330 / > %  Bugcheck output saved to pthread_dump.log. E > %SYSTEM-F-IMGDMP, dynamic image dump signal at PC=000000007BAA5C98, 
 > PS=0000001B : >   KOBE_STARTUP job terminated at  3-JUN-2002 15:30:16.54 >  > --K > What I publish in this group, is to be understood as my personal opninion C > and must not be interpreted as a official statement of my company    ------------------------------   Date: 5 Jun 2002 06:50:22 -0600 B From: clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP (Simon Clubley)< Subject: Re: Another analyst says VMS port won't be finished3 Message-ID: <ntGVRKc7WhjH@eisner.encompasserve.org>   r In article <509K8.79558$ux5.100094@rwcrnsc51.ops.asp.att.net>, "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com> writes: > I > "Simon Clubley" <clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP> wrote in 7 > message news:LkDXLyTDBFtx@eisner.encompasserve.org... J >> In article <WEPJ8.68365$ux5.82091@rwcrnsc51.ops.asp.att.net>, "Terry C.+ > Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com> writes:  >> >H >> > The GG VMS codswallop of December last is about to cost HPQ dearly. > That'sK >> > all I can say, but it's a sordid and downright sickening story of what < >> > happens when you don't stand up to misinformed bullies. >>K >> Although you obviously have some information that you cannot talk about, L >> do you have a timescale in which this story will come to a conclusion and, >> will you be able to speak about it then ? > M > Plenty of folks should be able to talk about the VMS to IPF port by the end  > of this year.  > L > As to when will the OS story come to a conclusion, who knows. Over time itJ > wouldn't surprise me to see more and more VMS attributes (not to mentionG > Tru64 and NSK) get subsumed into the UDC/Server Utility strategy. VMS N > already has contributed to Tru64 UNIX (clustering, DLM, et al), no reason itK > can't contribute to the computing environment we're likely to see within,  > say, the next five years.  >    Clarification time. :-)   H Terry, the story that I am interested in is the one that I quoted above,F where you imply that HP is about to lose a large amount of business asI a result of the Gartner Group VMS analysis. I was wondering when the loss H of business was likely to happen, and if you would be able to talk about it after that time.    Simon.   --  B Simon Clubley, clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP       + Microsoft: The Lada of the computing world.    ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 05 Jun 2002 06:52:33 GMT * From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>& Subject: Re: Challenge: Find The Fault@ Message-ID: <RyiL8.59455$4i.6466398@bin2.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>  8 "John E. Malmberg" <wb8tyw@qsl.network> wrote in message$ news:3CFD8EB2.8030601@qsl.network...   ...   = > But what is the point in posting statements that can not be ; > independantly verified?  It causes counter claims of FUD.   K I guess that's one of the prices a company pays when it completely destroys  any reputation for honesty.    - bill   ------------------------------    Date: 05 Jun 2002 21:02:18 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>$ Subject: Re: Could linux become VMS?- Message-ID: <87y9dt3mlh.fsf@prep.synonet.com>   ) Brass Christof <welcome@spam.not> writes:   D > But I didn't know that he is completely stupid and a person who isE > only interested in being famous and using his "power" to talk about < > things he hasn't understood or doesn't know nothing about.   This is *TOTAL* obnoxious crap!   @ Anyone who has met and talked with Linus could not help but knowB that he regards `fame' etc as an embarasing impedimenrt to getting coding etc done.  D I met him some years ago, and he is one of the most unasuming peopleA I have ever met, and totally undeserving of that sort of comment.   < (Still think it is a pity he did yet another unix though...)   --  < Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda. @                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------  + Date: Wed, 05 Jun 2002 16:54:19 +0100 (MET) 9 From: Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> $ Subject: Re: Could linux become VMS?; Message-ID: <01KIKUGEW6OM96WE0C@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>   F > > But I didn't know that he is completely stupid and a person who isG > > only interested in being famous and using his "power" to talk about > > > things he hasn't understood or doesn't know nothing about. > ! > This is *TOTAL* obnoxious crap!  > B > Anyone who has met and talked with Linus could not help but knowD > that he regards `fame' etc as an embarasing impedimenrt to getting > coding etc done. > F > I met him some years ago, and he is one of the most unasuming peopleC > I have ever met, and totally undeserving of that sort of comment.   A I think it is true that he is rather unassuming.  I also read an  G interview where he said something like "Stallman has a message and all  I that bit, but I don't see it as a political thing; it's just something I a  did for fun which took off" etc.  H On the other hand, I too read the (translation of) the excerpt from his A "Just for Fun" autobiography, where it was obvious that he had a  ! completely distorted idea of VMS.e   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 05 Jun 2002 18:06:28 +0200 ' From: Brass Christof <welcome@spam.not>l$ Subject: Re: Could linux become VMS?( Message-ID: <3CFE3704.919F84EC@spam.not>   Paul Repacholi wrote:V > + > Brass Christof <welcome@spam.not> writes:. > F > > But I didn't know that he is completely stupid and a person who isG > > only interested in being famous and using his "power" to talk about > > > things he hasn't understood or doesn't know nothing about. > ! > This is *TOTAL* obnoxious crap!O > B > Anyone who has met and talked with Linus could not help but knowD > that he regards `fame' etc as an embarasing impedimenrt to getting > coding etc done. > F > I met him some years ago, and he is one of the most unasuming peopleC > I have ever met, and totally undeserving of that sort of comment.   D Okay then - I have to admit that I never met him. The best source I > had was his book. Could you explain why he wrote this strange @ comments about VMS? And besides that: where he describes how he = worked everybody understands that it was a desaster from the f# software engineering point of view.   > > (Still think it is a pity he did yet another unix though...)  = I never understood why he didn't join other similar projects.i   > --> > Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,9 > +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.eB >                                              West Australia 60760 > Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.H > EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   -- e7 moc dot slupofni at ssarb - please reverse the sequencet   ------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2002 11:24:02 -0500: From: "Scandora, Anthony \(35048\)" <Scandora@cmt.anl.gov>$ Subject: Re: Could linux become VMS?+ Message-ID: <adldvb$7a2$1@milo.mcs.anl.gov>r  4 "Brass Christof" <welcome@spam.not> wrote in message" news:3CFD4A68.552392C2@spam.not... > Phillip Helbig wrote:t > ..; > I was very disappointed after reading this BS from Linus. : > Before that I only knew that he had no clue about CS and< > programming - especially OS design and implementation were= > his weakest points. But I didn't know that he is completelye< > stupid and a person who is only interested in being famous6 > and using his "power" to talk about things he hasn't+ > understood or doesn't know nothing about.e  J If he really said that, it was a stupid thing to say, but it does not makeH him clueless about CS and programming, or completely stupid.  I have notL read any of the source code myself, so I can't comment on his style, but theK kernel is a significant piece of code that works well in many environments.N@ Although I doubt that any implementation of UNIX, open source orA proprietary, will soon catch up with some of the features we haveoJ appreciated in VMS since way back when, a lot of people run parts of theirF businesses on Linux without worring about crashes or reboots.  You canJ justifiably disrespect the boatload of poorly documented, widely scatteredL config files that have to be right, and the search for drivers, but once youF get them all right, it works.  No clueless or stupid person could have accomplished that.   > ...k: > Did I mention that UNIX is shit/crap and C fits well in?  K There is a lot not to like about it, but once properly configured, UNIX canrG run reliably and do a lot of work, and most of what's wrong with C alsooH applies to BLISS and to Macro.  A lot can be said about .ascid v. .asciz1 strings, but that's a lanugage independent issue.e  E VMS advocacy would be better served by touting its advantages than byeL calling products that do a lot of useful work and the people who create them perjorative and vulgar names.e  1 Tony Scandora, Argonne National Lab, 630-252-7541t scandora@cmt.anl.gov   ------------------------------   Date: 5 Jun 02 11:36:05 +0200r) From: p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture)t8 Subject: Re: CSWB (was RE: OpenVMS FAQ due next week...)) Message-ID: <crpl$tn1naVp@elias.decus.ch>   Z In article <0033000066509538000002L082*@MHS>, WILLIAM WEBB <WWEBB1@email.usps.gov> writes:J > =0A   I'm running CSWB on an AlphaStation 200 4/166 with 192 MB of RAM.= >  > G >    If anyone knows of an ISP that handles VMS clients that serves thenJ >    Raleigh, NC USA area, I'll put it on my hobbyist PWS 433au with 1GB = > of5 >    memory and we'll see how it runs on *that* baby.r > ' How do you connect to your current ISP?   J I and others have managed nicely with ISDN and ADSL routers which talk theO correct protocols to the ISP and simply look like a standard network gateway to  VMS systems.  O http://www.tmesis.com/internet/ has some good introductory info on the subject.a   __
 Paul Sture Switzerlanda   ------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2002 08:08:57 +0100, From: "Rainer Giese" <waste.not@welcome.net> Subject: Re: DEFINE/TRANS=CONC6 Message-ID: <adk9tq$11va6r$1@ID-138444.news.dfncis.de>  L "Brian Tillman" <tillman_brian@notnoone.notnohow.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag news:3cfd23e1$1@news.si.com... > $ sho log /fu a305_diska; >    "A305_DISK" [exec] = "$1$DUA131:" [concealed,terminal]b (LNM$SYSTEM_TABLE) > $ sho log/fu myrootl: >    "MYROOT" [super] = "A305_DISK:[TILLMAN.]" [concealed] (LNM$PROCESS_TABLE)f > Directory MYROOT:[000000]  >pG > $MAIN.TPU$JOURNAL;1 .LYNXRC;1           .MOSAIC-CC-3_6;1    .NEWSRC;1d7 > .RHOSTS;14          4635-01.RM;1        ACLEDIT.TPU;1- > ADJUST_TIME.DIF;15I > ADMINACCESS.;1      ADMINS.DIS;1        AIRBUS.DIS;1        ALIAS.FOR;1: > ...<snip>... >  > Seems to me that it does.6  D But it will not, if the first logical already points to a directory.   -- Regards, Rainer Giese   ------------------------------  + Date: Wed, 05 Jun 2002 10:28:57 +0100 (MET)p9 From: Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>  Subject: RE: DEFINE/TRANS=CONC; Message-ID: <01KIKGV20GK2984WQP@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>   J > >I need to define a concealed device which points to not a physical diskJ > >but another concealed device.  This doesn't work (so I will write a DCLI > >procedure to do this---find the hidden physical name etc while keeping:H > >this transparent to the user).  Why doesn't it work?  Is it somewhere# > >documented that it doesn't work.S >  > Doesn't work?  Hmm...t   > Seems to me that it does.n  < Change "concealed device" to "rooted logical" above.  Sorry.   I can do  1    $ DEFINE/TRAN=CONC DISK$TEST DISK$USER:[TEST.]d  A so that, for most purposes, DISK$TEST behaves like a real disk.    However, I cannot do  4    $  DEFINE/TRAN=CONC DISK$TEST2 DISK$TEST:[TEST2.]  F Thus, the DCL below.  (By coincidence, someone installing PERL posted H here the same problem recently, and someone pointed out that there is a * much more compact solution using F$PARSE.)  K -----------------------8<--------------------------------------------------n   $! DEFINE_CONCEALED_DEVICE.COM $! $! $! local symbole $! $  WSO := WRITE SYS$OUTPUT $! $!% $! make sure P2 is OK (the main task)  $!! $  IF P2 .EQS. "" THEN GOTO USAGEi0 $  IF F$LOCATE(":[",P2) .EQ. F$LENGTH(P2) .OR. -*       F$LOCATE(".]",P2) .EQ. F$LENGTH(P2)  $  THENa $    WSO "" , $    WSO "invalid format for rooted logical" $    EXIT 2e $  ELSEn $    LOC = F$LOCATE(":",P2)O $    LEN = F$LENGTH(P2)E $    DISK = F$EXTRACT(0,LOC,P2)n' $    IF F$TRNLNM(DISK,,,,,"CONCEALED") a	 $    THENf' $      REAL_DISK = F$TRNLNM(DISK) - "]"r/ $      DIRECTORY = F$EXTRACT(LOC,LEN,P2) - ":["./ $      CONCEALED_DEVICE = REAL_DISK + DIRECTORY2	 $    ELSE- $      CONCEALED_DEVICE = P2
 $    ENDIF $  ENDIF $! $! $! table for the definitiong $!% $  TABLES := PROCESS|JOB|GROUP|SYSTEMb $  IF P3 .NES. ""D $  THEN/8 $    IF P3 .EQS. "PROCESS" .OR. P3 .EQS. "JOB"    .OR. -2         P3 .EQS. "GROUP"   .OR. P3 .EQS. "SYSTEM" 	 $    THENu $      P3 := /'P3'	 $    ELSEa $      WSO "" 7 $      WSO "possible tables: ''TABLES' (unabbreviated)"b
 $      EXIT 2T
 $    ENDIF $  ELSEs $    P3 := /PROCESSe $  ENDIF $! $! $! mode for definition $!% $  MODES := USER|SUPERVISOR|EXECUTIVEf $  IF P4 .NES. ""  $  THEN > $    IF P4 .EQS. "USER"      .OR. P4 .EQS. "SUPERVISOR" .OR. -         P4 .EQS. "EXECUTIVE"	 $    THEN  $      P4 := /'P4'	 $    ELSE  $      WSO "" 5 $      WSO "possible modes: ''MODES' (unabbreviated)"o
 $      EXIT 2S
 $    ENDIF $  ELSEc $    P4 := /SUPERVISOR $  ENDIF $! $! $! finally define it $!6 $  DEFINE/TRANS=CONC 'P3' 'P4' 'P1' 'CONCEALED_DEVICE' $! $! $  EXIT0 $! $! $! usage instructionsc $! $USAGE:r $  TYPE SYS$INPUT   -    P1: name of concealed device to be definedr%    P2: definition of concealed device     P3: table    P4: model $  EXITi   ------------------------------  . Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2002 08:11:25 +0200 (MET DST)& From: Rudolf Wingert <win@fom.fgan.de> Subject: Re: DFO and ODS-56 Message-ID: <200206050611.IAA18488@sinet1.fom.fgan.de>   Hello,  D the problem is not the DFO and ODS5. If you look right, you will see! that the disk is mounted via NFS:6   > >DFO>show nfs001/free/volume: > >%DFG-W-NOTODSDEV, NFS001 is not an ODS-2 mounted device  C A disk mounted via NFS is never an ODS disk. You can use them as ane3 ODS disk, but it may be have a non ODS file system.    Regards Rudolf Wingert   ------------------------------  * Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2002 10:57:48 +0000 (UTC) From: david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk Subject: Re: DFO and ODS-5+ Message-ID: <adkqrc$9gd$1@aquila.mdx.ac.uk>0  b In article <995e39b6.0206040710.6f4d15a0@posting.google.com>, ewilts@ewilts.org (Ed Wilts) writes:R >david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk wrote in message news:<adg6fl$n4a$1@aquila.mdx.ac.uk>...e >> In article <995e39b6.0206030722.61924602@posting.google.com>, ewilts@ewilts.org (Ed Wilts) writes:"C >> >It was my impression that DFO 2.6 would support ODS-5 volumes. rH >> >However, it won't let me add a new ODS-5 volume, nor will it processJ >> >an existing volume that was converted to ODS-5.  The error message is: >> >DFO>show nfs001/free/volumer; >> >%DFG-W-NOTODSDEV, NFS001 is not an ODS-2 mounted deviceC >> >D >> >Note that this isn't really a warning - it's a fatal error.  TheC >> >script doesn't even create the log file specified and the error % >> >appears in the DFG$node.LOG file.4 >> >I >> >Is anyone aware of any plans of ODS-5 support for DFO?  I'm currentlyC >> >running V2.6.1 >> > >> CH >> This should work. DFO has supported ODS-5 since at least version 2.5. > ) >[and David shows proof that it works...]0 >0 >Cicero> sh dev disk002/fu >6Q >Disk DSA207:, device type MSCP served SCSI disk array, is online, mounted, file-0P >    oriented device, shareable, available to cluster, error logging is enabled,1 >    device supports bitmaps (no bitmaps active).  >  .: .C .0 >0% >Cicero> defrag show disk002/free/vol ) >Disk File Optimizer for OpenVMS DFG V2.6CC >Copyright  Compaq Computer Corp. 1991,2001.   All rights reserved39 >%DFG-W-NOTODSDEV, DISK002 is not an ODS-2 mounted deviceS >-D >So what's the catch here?  Why does it work for you and not for me? >1  M Well I am still using DFG V2.5 hence I suppose it's just possible Compaq haveIM screwed up ODS-5 support on 2.6 however I'd think thats fairly unlikely - I'dtF have expected to Compaq to have had a lot of other people complaining.  L I've just checked back on my logs with Compaq on DFO and I did have a coupleJ of problems but I don't see them bearing directly on ODS-5 support in DFO.  M 1) My scripts got screwed up upgrading to DFG v2.5 and I had to recreate themg all using :-   1. Save all your scripts using  K     $ DEFRAGMENT SHOW/ALL/PARAMETERS/COMMAND_LINE/OUTPUT=MY_DB_CONTENTS.COM   ? 2. Stop all scheduler processes on all nodes running schedulerse  )     $ @SYS$MANAGER:DFG$STOP_SCHEDULER.COMm   3. Initialise the database  &     $ RUN SYS$SYSTEM:DFG$INIT_DATABASE  & 4. Re-populate with your saved scripts       $ @MY_DB_CONTENTS     N 2)  I had to increase a number of quotas to successfully defragment disks whenG     I reduced the disk clustersize down to 1. I seem to recall I had to >     drastically increase the dfg$pgflquota in dfg$startup.com.      N The only other thing I notice is that you are defragmenting MSCP served disks.J Can you run the defragmenter on the system which has direct access to the  disks ?w    
 David Webb VMS and Unix team leader CCSS Middlesex University   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 05 Jun 2002 08:11:50 +0200  From: Dirk Munk <munk@home.nl>  Subject: Re: ES45 and VMS  7.2-1& Message-ID: <3CFDABA6.5080506@home.nl>  O Very simple. VMS has to know all hardware components in a system. The ES45 has o4 hardware components that are not known to VMS 7.2-1.  M So VMS 7.2-1 might not boot at all, or might not recognise importants system u' components, or might crash during boot.e  M By the way, that is why there were H versions of certain VMS versions. The H  Q stands for hardware, and these versions were meant to accomodate for new Alpha's oF that were produced after that particular version of VMS was published.       Lyndon Bartels wrote:l! > Just a hypothetical question...  >  > F > My sources say that to run an ES45, I need VMS v7.3... Not a problem; > there... I would never dream of recommending otherwise...m >  > H > But in case somebody asks, "what would happen if we tried to run it on > v7.2-1?" - > 0 > So what would happen? Or what wouldn't happen? >  > Thanks in advance, >  > Lyndon >  >    ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 05 Jun 2002 08:34:21 GMT4$ From: "labadie" <labadie_g@decus.fr>  Subject: Re: ES45 and VMS  7.2-10 Message-ID: <h2kL8.2$Ah.197781@news.cpqcorp.net>  ; "Lyndon Bartels" <lbartels@pressenter.com> wrote in messagea( news:3CFD266F.34F1B8C8@pressenter.com...! > Just a hypothetical question...  >F > G > My sources say that to run an ES45, I need VMS >v7.3... Not a problems   if I look at7 http://www.openvms.compaq.com/openvms/supportchart.html-  L I see that the ES45 need Vms 7.3 + patches to run, unlike an old AlphaServer3 300 4/266, which needs V6.2-1H3, or V7.1 or higher.g& So I blindly follow what is said here.   Regardsh   Grard   ------------------------------   Date: 5 Jun 2002 05:45:23 -0700 ; From: jnchambl@texaschildrenshospital.org (Jesse Chambless)   Subject: Re: ES45 and VMS  7.2-1= Message-ID: <d92c63cc.0206050445.69f8afa4@posting.google.com>.  > I would think that as long as you have the newest SRM softwareE installed, VMS7.2-1 would work on the ES-45s.  We have ES-40s runningnE V7.2-2.  Initially we boot the system on VMS 7.2-1 and then upgraded.y  B Again, I think that having the latest console/SRM software updates should enable it to work.   L Dirk Munk <munk@home.nl> wrote in message news:<3CFDABA6.5080506@home.nl>...Q > Very simple. VMS has to know all hardware components in a system. The ES45 has 06 > hardware components that are not known to VMS 7.2-1. > O > So VMS 7.2-1 might not boot at all, or might not recognise importants system e) > components, or might crash during boot.u > O > By the way, that is why there were H versions of certain VMS versions. The H  S > stands for hardware, and these versions were meant to accomodate for new Alpha's dH > that were produced after that particular version of VMS was published. >  >  >  > Lyndon Bartels wrote:r# > > Just a hypothetical question...t > >  > > H > > My sources say that to run an ES45, I need VMS v7.3... Not a problem= > > there... I would never dream of recommending otherwise...o > >  > > J > > But in case somebody asks, "what would happen if we tried to run it on
 > > v7.2-1?" t > > 2 > > So what would happen? Or what wouldn't happen? > >  > > Thanks in advance, > > 
 > > Lyndon > >  > >i   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 05 Jun 2002 11:31:22 -0400s5 From: David Beatty <David.Beatty@qwertysasasdfgh.com>g  Subject: Re: ES45 and VMS  7.2-12 Message-ID: <oS7+PM0wmOdlCTJ2xwGyWElt1MY4@4ax.com>  ' Have you tried V7.2-2?  David R. Beattyn  2 On Tue, 04 Jun 2002 20:43:27 -0500, Lyndon Bartels  <lbartels@pressenter.com> wrote:    >Just a hypothetical question... >u >hE >My sources say that to run an ES45, I need VMS v7.3... Not a problem): >there... I would never dream of recommending otherwise... >w >oG >But in case somebody asks, "what would happen if we tried to run it on-
 >v7.2-1?"  >-/ >So what would happen? Or what wouldn't happen?m >r >Thanks in advance,@ >m >Lyndonu   ------------------------------   Date: 5 Jun 02 12:28:44 +0200s) From: p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture)r2 Subject: Re: For all you hobbyists: IDE on SCSI !!) Message-ID: <zWEe4MKkBwoU@elias.decus.ch>d  G In article <3CFD2506.5000908@home.nl>, Dirk Munk <munk@home.nl> writes:w > Jonathan Boswell wrote:n >> Dirk Munk wrote:o >> dQ >>>This is a 80 GB Western Digital WD 800JB IDE disk connected to the SCSI bus ofoS >>>my PWS. I used a Acard AEC-7720UW SCSI-IDE bridge to connect it. It works great,a? >>>and in total this is a lot cheaper then a 80 GB SCSI disk !!  >>   >> oM >> Very interesting.  What happens if you plug it into the PWS IDE controllerd* >> directly, without the Acard in between? >>   >>  - JB > J > I have a first generation PWS. Not even the CD-Rom is supported on IDE ! > Q > By the way, the performance of the disk is stunning. I did a anal /disk /read,  A > and got 580 IO's/sec sustained, with peaks up to 650 IO's /sec.s >   K Now I'm _very_ interested. I am just doing an anal /disk /read on my systemtP disk (PWS 600au, disk is COMPAQPC DDRS-39130D), and have a peak of 329 IOs/sec,  265/sec average.   __
 Paul Sture Switzerland    ------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2002 11:34:30 -0400- From: "Peter Weaver" <peter.weaver@stelco.ca> D Subject: HP Canada "Optimize IT Conference & Showcase National Tour"4 Message-ID: <adlb27$6g2k$1@ID-141708.news.dfncis.de>  L HP Canada is doing a National Tour, one of the presentations will (accordingI to http://www.okpmw.com/it/) show customers "How HP's multi- O/S strategyeL enables you to run either Windows, Linux or Unix, all on the same platform."I I think they missed a certain O/S from their list. An e-mail sent earlieraJ today to the person who sent me the invitation asking why VMS was left out has not yet been answered.   -- Peter WeaverL Opinions are my own, and do not reflect the opinions of my employer, nor theK company that it sub-contracts to, nor the company that it sub-contracts to.m   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 05 Jun 2002 16:25:53 GMT # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>lH Subject: Re: HP Canada "Optimize IT Conference & Showcase National Tour"I Message-ID: <lYqL8.217982$t8_.11701@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>w  L I just got off the telephone with the personal assistant to the president ofK HP Canada, and have been assured that I will get a call back today from the  president regarding OpenVMS.      8 "Peter Weaver" <peter.weaver@stelco.ca> wrote in message. news:adlb27$6g2k$1@ID-141708.news.dfncis.de...C > HP Canada is doing a National Tour, one of the presentations will 
 (accordingK > to http://www.okpmw.com/it/) show customers "How HP's multi- O/S strategy C > enables you to run either Windows, Linux or Unix, all on the samet
 platform."K > I think they missed a certain O/S from their list. An e-mail sent earlier L > today to the person who sent me the invitation asking why VMS was left out > has not yet been answered. >r > -- > Peter WeaverJ > Opinions are my own, and do not reflect the opinions of my employer, nor thecI > company that it sub-contracts to, nor the company that it sub-contractst to.l >? >    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 05 Jun 2002 03:34:15 -0400r- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>f" Subject: Re: HP Layoffs have begun, Message-ID: <3CFDBEEE.AA417F48@videotron.ca>  @ Some additional information from an analysts meeting on Tuesday:   ##K H-P said in a meeting with analysts Tuesday that it will cut 10,000 jobs innK the second half of this fiscal year then another 5,000 next year, half fromrJ the H-P operations and half from Compaq, reaching the previously announced total of 15,000. ##  C Also: (note the enterprise section expects flat to negative growth)    ##N H-P broke down expectations for the rest of fiscal 2002 for the four divisions) it established following the acquisition.l  I   The company predicted that its imaging and printing operations will see<I operating profit increase  11% to 13%, on revenue of $10 billion to $10.5 I billion. The division was the former H-P's longtime  strength and made up  about 40% of its revenue.r  L   H-P expects that the personal-systems group will see operating profit slipM 2% to 3% in the second half, on revenue of $9.5 billion to $10.5 billion. TheyF unit provides business and consumer  notebooks and desktops as well as% workstations and hand-held computers.   N   At its enterprise-systems group, operating profit should be flat to down 2%,I with revenue of $8  billion to $9 billion, the company said. The divisioniG focuses on enterprise information-technology  infrastructure, including-4 enterprise storage, servers and management software.  J   Operating profits from its information-technology services division willH likely jump 11% to 13%, on revenue of $6 billion to $6.5 billion, in the second half, H-P said.   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 05 Jun 2002 14:04:25 GMT # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>S" Subject: Re: HP Layoffs have begunJ Message-ID: <JToL8.195000$ah_.186811@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>  H An all of the following is likely to lead to even more draconian layoffs than originally forecast..    . "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> wrote in messageD news:3yoL8.194909$ah_.184868@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com... >  >UK > ""We are seeing a slower recovery in IT spending than any one of us would   > have liked," Ms. Fiorina said. >e > --Doh. >t > B > HP executives also laid blame for falling revenue at the feet of
 consumers,J > whose reluctance to buy personal computers, a worrying sign the No. 1 PCD > maker noted two weeks ago, has led to a build-up of inventory with > retailers. >eC > "The consumer market is very, very soft right now," said HP chiefQ	 operatingu > officer Michael Capellas.e >o8 > -- Let's double down in the consumer market, shall we? >k >    ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 05 Jun 2002 13:41:19 GMT # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>d" Subject: Re: HP Layoffs have begunJ Message-ID: <3yoL8.194909$ah_.184868@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>  I ""We are seeing a slower recovery in IT spending than any one of us would  have liked," Ms. Fiorina said.   --Doh.    K HP executives also laid blame for falling revenue at the feet of consumers,IH whose reluctance to buy personal computers, a worrying sign the No. 1 PCB maker noted two weeks ago, has led to a build-up of inventory with
 retailers.  K "The consumer market is very, very soft right now," said HP chief operatingn officer Michael Capellas.m  6 -- Let's double down in the consumer market, shall we?   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 05 Jun 2002 13:22:57 +0100-U From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <andrew_nospam.harrison_remove_this@sun#.com>!' Subject: Re: Inquirer says Alpha lives?T0 Message-ID: <adl0al$gls$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   Bob Ceculski wrote:2  t > "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote in message news:<OlcJ8.69311$Gs.6423217@bin5.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>... > < >>"JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message( >>news:3CF54BEE.3BD3496F@videotron.ca... >> >>..., >> >>M >>>If Carly doesn't perform as expected, she will eventually get the boot, at,K >>>which point, her replacement may be in a position to reverse some of the  >>>R >> wrong >>< >>>decisions made by Carly, at least those still reversable. >>>EM >>Alpha isn't even reversible now, unless the EV8 team has been continuing to K >>develop EV8 in secret at Intel (Bob the Mouth thinks so, but I don't knowIJ >>anyone credible who does).  Otherwise, it has lost nearly a full year ofL >>time, plus whatever additional time (likely another year) it would take toJ >>regain the development momentum it once had.  Hang a two-year penalty onL >>Alpha and the lies propagated by the HPS team become truths:  it no longerN >>has a sufficient lead over even Itanic (let alone POWER, Hammer, and - if it" >>appears - Yamhill) to be viable. >> >>- bill >> > K > from what we are hearing about spec results on itanic/hammer so far, they J > can't even touch EV7 yet ... plenty of time for the EV8/EV9 steam rollerG > to crank back up, although if you read the above inquirer article, itSJ > seems there is plenty of interest in EV8/EV9 from other sources already. >   2 I am at a loss to understand why you think this is
 good news.  4 You are an OpenVMS advocate, OpenVMS is being ported to IA-64 as we speak.   5 OpenVMS is owned by HP who have sunk huge ammounts ofc5 cash into IA-64. Their whole high end server strategy 4 is based on migrating from HP-PA based HP-UX systems2 and Alpha Tru64/OpenVMS to a commonish IA-64 based	 platform.n  3 If IA-64 does not deliver and Intel has to fold and04 go with an x86-64 processor then HP is up S**T creek without a paddle.a  5 No easyish transition from HP-PA/HP-UX to IA-64/HP-UXs1 no IA-64/OpenVMS etc. Instead HP will be in for ae2 new and very unexpected and panic R&D expenditure.  6 Guess what happens then, things get cut, anything that2 looks periperal to HP's core strategy would go, do you want this for OpenVMS ?e  4 At this point the last thing you want is a change of7 strategy at Intel, it could spell dissaster for OpenVMS2 .l   Regards. Andrew HarrisonD   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 05 Jun 2002 13:46:18 GMT<# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>g6 Subject: Re: Intel to start to advertise even more :-(I Message-ID: <KCoL8.217824$t8_.59762@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>.  : "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message& news:3CFD27B9.98BD8634@videotron.ca... > 5 > Once VMS is commercially available on Intel's slow--; > as-molasses thing, the real  test will be whether HP willl5 > start to advertise VMS and reap the Intel-subsidiesa; > applied to any advertising that has that awful Intel logos > and tune at the end.  K Nope. It would be a real embarrassment to advertise something that slow. AtsD that point, even Gartner will begin to wonder why on earth Alpha was	 canceled.e   ------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2002 08:00:19 +0100, From: "Rainer Giese" <waste.not@welcome.net>; Subject: Re: Is Polycenter for VMS a good security product? 6 Message-ID: <adk9dj$122rif$1@ID-138444.news.dfncis.de>  ; "Bob Ceculski" <bob@instantwhip.com> schrieb im Newsbeitragi7 news:d7791aa1.0206041431.7c3aba7f@posting.google.com...S5 > bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski) wrote in messagen9 news:<d7791aa1.0206030540.3cda9019@posting.google.com>...b= > > Touch Technologies now has DEC Polycenter for VMS, and itb< > > looks like a good security tool ... has anyone ever used; > > it, and is it pretty good to automate the monitoring ofD > > servers? >g< > well, if no one has heard of it, it looks like it must not > be very good ...  E I didn't follow the developement, so my experience is not the newest.h  L I remember "Polycenter" not as a single product but as a group of managementE products. One of it I ever used was "Polycenter Performance Advisor",oL formerly known as "DECps", now handled as "Advise IT" by CA. It was the bestL performance analyzing I ever had, but we canceled it as DEC selled it to CA.# Dealing with CA was a heavy matter.v  J The second I know is "Polycenter Console Manager", fka "VAXcluster ConsoleH Manager". I still us it for supervising the console lines of all serversH (VMS, Solaris,HSZs,HSGs,...). Additional it is possible to create pseudoI consoles with own made DCL scripts, and so I do IP-Polling, SMTP-watch of. UPS and some other...c  J The console manager is not bug free, but like often: if you know them, you. can live with them. So at whole I'm satisfied.     -- Regards, Rainer Giese   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 05 Jun 2002 08:50:23 +0200 9 From: Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com>m; Subject: Re: Is Polycenter for VMS a good security product? ' Message-ID: <3CFDB4AE.1D6DA951@aaa.com>l  9 Touch has just three of the original Polycenter products.n- Se http://www.ttinet.com/ (under "Products").e  / - Polycenter Security Compliance Manager (PSCM)t - Polycenter Security Consolec( - Polycenter Security Intrusion Detector  / None of the "major" Polycenter products, AFAIK.i   Jan-Erik Sderholm.-   Rainer Giese wrote:e > N > I remember "Polycenter" not as a single product but as a group of management > products.    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 05 Jun 2002 11:30:08 +0200h1 From: Franz-Josef Fornefeld <jo.fornefeld@gmx.de>d? Subject: Re: It works by itself since ages, why would I change?m' Message-ID: <adkso0.nu.2@jo.dyndns.org>i   Didier Morandi wrote:o  B > How many existing VMS Customers can recognize themselves in this > description today?  + We got one customer in a similar situation.r  ? The production system was upgraded from a VAX 11/750 to two VAXh5 4000-500a in dual-host configuration eight years ago.a  ( Well, they reboot on a regular basis ...  H And the bad news: the next system will run solaris. This is the strategyG of their IT management. So we and their system manager keep this system  running and running ...m   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 05 Jun 2002 11:38:13 +0100n( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1>? Subject: Re: It works by itself since ages, why would I change? ) Message-ID: <3CFDEA15.DEC13A80@127.0.0.1>-   Didier Morandi wrote:  >  > Question:4U > How many existing VMS Customers can recognize themselves in this description today?h  8B As I've said, VMS is it's own worst enemy. No need to wait for theE upgrade down the line which promises to fix all the problems, because 8 there are no problems now. Apart from it's too reliable.  H Therefore the problem is with the visibility of new developments and whyB someone should choose OpenVMS for their new implementation. He who shouts loudest...7  G When I say to people that VMS works well in a SAN, they usually fall of-E chairs with amazement, but it shouldn't be me bringing them the news.a --  ( Regards, Nic Clews CSC Computer Sciences nclews at csc dot com:   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 05 Jun 2002 08:21:03 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>d? Subject: Re: It works by itself since ages, why would I change? , Message-ID: <3CFE0224.37C7343C@videotron.ca>   Nic Clews wrote:D > As I've said, VMS is it's own worst enemy. No need to wait for theG > upgrade down the line which promises to fix all the problems, becausek: > there are no problems now. Apart from it's too reliable.  M On the other hand, one can argue that a VMS system that never gets changed is5M owned either by a stagnant company or a company that grows and changes a lot, F and puts all new applications on other platforms where the more modern software is available.  L One example: my old trusty PSION PDA works great for me. But it is legacy inN every way (out of production, a company that no longer has a presence in northD america, proprietary storage cards not available locally (and bloodyI expensive), no USB port etc etc. It works fine for me because I also havedO "legacy" system at home (VAX/VMS with serial ports) so I can do file transfers.s  N But I know that when I get a digital camera with USB only, both my PDA and VMSL systems (VAX) will become a liability instead of an asset because they woN't% be able to interface with the camera.   Q That is the problem when one becomes stagnant and keep the old stuff long enough.   L Same happens to my bicycle. I have kept the maintenance for my bike and haveM over 110,000km on the wheels. Problem is that I can no longer get spare parts-F for the freewheel because they don't make those types anymore. And theL headsets are not totally different so in a few years, I won't be able to getH spare parts for that either, same for the shift levers which are now allF integrated into the handlebars instead of on the frame. Heck, even theM computer on it is obsolete and discontinued, but I really like it and want torK keep it as long as it can function. (it has built-in digital thermometre aso- well as all the standard trip compute stuff).w   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 05 Jun 2002 15:56:08 +0200o- From: Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@Free.fr>h? Subject: Re: It works by itself since ages, why would I change?-' Message-ID: <3CFE1878.78DBC10C@Free.fr>u   JF Mezei wrote:s >  ../..tN > Same happens to my bicycle. I have kept the maintenance for my bike and haveO > over 110,000km on the wheels. Problem is that I can no longer get spare partshH > for the freewheel because they don't make those types anymore. And theN > headsets are not totally different so in a few years, I won't be able to getJ > spare parts for that either, same for the shift levers which are now allH > integrated into the handlebars instead of on the frame. Heck, even theO > computer on it is obsolete and discontinued, but I really like it and want to % > keep it as long as it can function.d  M Same for an electric razor. The one you love because it shaves exactly as youtM like, but today, ten years after (btw, where are they gone, these ones?), youhF cannot find any spare. No more cutting head, no more grid, no nothing. Conclusion: you buy a new one.   D.   ------------------------------   Date: 5 Jun 2002 08:55:38 -0700d( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)? Subject: Re: It works by itself since ages, why would I change?3= Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0206050755.31d02beb@posting.google.com>   Y Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1> wrote in message news:<3CFDEA15.DEC13A80@127.0.0.1>..." > Didier Morandi wrote:  > > 
 > > Question:"W > > How many existing VMS Customers can recognize themselves in this description today?w >  cD > As I've said, VMS is it's own worst enemy. No need to wait for theG > upgrade down the line which promises to fix all the problems, becauseu: > there are no problems now. Apart from it's too reliable. > J > Therefore the problem is with the visibility of new developments and whyD > someone should choose OpenVMS for their new implementation. He who > shouts loudest...  > I > When I say to people that VMS works well in a SAN, they usually fall ofmG > chairs with amazement, but it shouldn't be me bringing them the news.h  G thats why vms is hated ... companies want you to always upgrade ... and-F patch, and upgrade, so they can make more money ... with VMS you don'tG need to go thru those headaches, simple maintenance is enough for most,rE upgrades are simple ... what I don't understand is what company wouldsH not want to have os like this, keep software features upgraded, and justJ build the customer base and collect the maintenance fees ... no headaches,F low cost high profit model ... why try to do it the charlatan way like$ Bill Gates and the unix/linux crowd?   ------------------------------   Date: 5 Jun 2002 09:03:01 -0700d( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)( Subject: IT world becoming like lawyers?= Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0206050803.406f0f86@posting.google.com>t  < how could any IT/management/CEO person fall for the lies and8 deception of the windoze/unix/linux world ... they buy a; lousy product with no security, and lots of bugs to fix ...a8 this is all couterproductive to their business, spending9 all that money buying 80,000 windoze boxes or 80,000 chipe7 sparc boxes, paying IT people big money to spend 80% ofp9 their time patching ... paying tons of money for securityt; products that on VMS would be unnecessary ... having to run 7 80,000 servers instead of a single Alpha VMS cluster or0: Galaxy ... disaster solutions when a simple vms cluster in7 two different locations would work the best ... it just39 boggles the mind how stupid people are actually becoming!o   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 05 Jun 2002 08:42:20 -0400a- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> ( Subject: LBR$ (library) condition values, Message-ID: <3CFE072C.8EC442CE@videotron.ca>   VAX VMS 7.2, DEC-C 6.0  K The DEC C include for lbrdef.h that is supposed to cover all of the library W functions lacks the definition of the various condition values returned by the routineso    1 SEARCH $DISK4:[SYS0.SYSCOMMON...]*.h LBR$_ILLFMT t   yields NOTHING.t  B I looked in the $LBRDEF macro in STARLET.MLB but it also lacks theF error/status codes for the LBR routines , as documented in the Utility routines manual. t  K Can anyone tell me where I can find a textual representation of the librarye> routine condition values so that I could code my own .h file ?   ------------------------------   Date: 5 Jun 02 07:22:41 PST  From: mckinneyj@cpva.saic.com , Subject: Re: LBR$ (library) condition values( Message-ID: <RkhjWvzNwuEq@cpva.saic.com>  , In article <3CFE072C.8EC442CE@videotron.ca>,0  JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> writes: > VAX VMS 7.2, DEC-C 6.0 > M > The DEC C include for lbrdef.h that is supposed to cover all of the librarysY > functions lacks the definition of the various condition values returned by the routiness >  > 3 > SEARCH $DISK4:[SYS0.SYSCOMMON...]*.h LBR$_ILLFMT t >  > yields NOTHING.t > D > I looked in the $LBRDEF macro in STARLET.MLB but it also lacks theH > error/status codes for the LBR routines , as documented in the Utility > routines manual. a > M > Can anyone tell me where I can find a textual representation of the libraryR@ > routine condition values so that I could code my own .h file ?  " You could use SDA to create one...   $ ANALYZE/SYSTEM- SDA> READ/IMAGE SYS$COMMON:[SYSLIB]LBRSHR.EXEyD %SDA-I-READSYM, 78 symbols read from SYS$COMMON:[SYSLIB]LBRSHR.EXE;3 SDA> SET OUTPUT LBRMSGDEF.LIS0 SDA> SHOW SYMBOL/ALL LBR$_	 SDA> EXITr   You'll see records similar to   G LBR$_ILLIDXNUM                  = 00000000.00269022 : 4D414E47.4D495F54kG LBR$_ILLFMT                     = 00000000.0026902A : 00000000.0000435FlG LBR$_ILLFUNC                    = 00000000.00269032 : 00000000.00000000   3 the value you'll be interested in is here _^^^^^^^^    $ EXIT %X00269032 ( %LBR-E-ILLFUNC, illegal library function   -- e - Jim.   ------------------------------   Date: 5 Jun 02 12:21:50 +0200 ) From: p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture)l; Subject: Re: Linux gains acceptance at expense of Microsoftl) Message-ID: <g5IjKV4UKPQE@elias.decus.ch>-  [ In article <3CFD2460.9964A9E@videotron.ca>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> writes:H > Bob Ceculski wrote:eH >> and what about when linux viruses reach your linux box ... unless youE >> want to run linux closed, VMS remains the only secure web platformo> >> out there ... open source is unsecure to run on the web ... > I > There is a big difference. Windows comes not only with lots of softwarenL > installed, but also lots of software configured to start in the backgroundB > with wide open gaping holes, without the owner knowing about it. > ? > Linux comes bare bones and you add/enable what you need/want.n >   L Not quite correct. Unless you go for a minimum installation, the ones I haveH seen will install a whole load of stuff you didn't ask for. With default8 username/password combinations and potential privileges.  P > Does a web server on linux require all mighty privileges to run ? If not, thenP > when it gets some buffer overflow, it will affect only its own process.  A bigN > problem with Microsoft is that it likes to require all mighty provileges forH > its software because the sofware and OS are not designed to allow such  > software to run without privs.  N One which came up a year or two ago was the need for local Admin rights to runO the debugger on NT. Sheesh, but if you think about the words Personal Computer, E it's _your_ box, to do with what you like? Not a good security model.o __
 Paul Sture Switzerlando   ------------------------------  * Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2002 11:26:31 +0000 (UTC) From: david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk; Subject: Re: Linux gains acceptance at expense of Microsoftd+ Message-ID: <adksh7$a2p$1@aquila.mdx.ac.uk>e  [ In article <3CFD2460.9964A9E@videotron.ca>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> writes:  >Bob Ceculski wrote:H >> and what about when linux viruses reach your linux box ... unless youE >> want to run linux closed, VMS remains the only secure web platformn> >> out there ... open source is unsecure to run on the web ... >,H >There is a big difference. Windows comes not only with lots of softwareK >installed, but also lots of software configured to start in the backgroundtA >with wide open gaping holes, without the owner knowing about it.  >a> >Linux comes bare bones and you add/enable what you need/want. >e  = I think "bare bones" is stating things a little too strongly.oJ The Linux installation procedures of distributions such as SUSE generally M offer 3 or 4 standard installation selections and then give you the option toII add or remove items. Very few users will select the minimum installation cN (most want at least Xwindows/KDE) unless they are severely short of diskspace.J I doubt very much that new users will deselect any items from the standard selection they have chosen.4  O >Does a web server on linux require all mighty privileges to run ? If not, thensO >when it gets some buffer overflow, it will affect only its own process.  A bigAM >problem with Microsoft is that it likes to require all mighty provileges foreG >its software because the sofware and OS are not designed to allow such  >software to run without privs.a  F I haven't run apache on any linux system however i'd hope that all theK distributions would default to configuring it to run under a non-privileged H account. However many inexperienced sysadmins have run apache as root on many other Unixes in the past.  
 David Webb VMS and Unix team leader CCSS Middlesex University   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 05 Jun 2002 08:39:00 +01008( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1>/ Subject: Re: Mark Gorham's Beer Bash in Readinge) Message-ID: <3CFDC014.43AED948@127.0.0.1>8   Brian Tillman wrote: > N > >Shirley the group went to another pub for a meal and finish the discussions > >over even more beer ? >  > Who's "Shirley the Group"?   Don't call me Shirley. -- a( Regards, Nic Clews CSC Computer Sciences nclews at csc dot com    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 05 Jun 2002 16:49:24 +0100 U From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <andrew_nospam.harrison_remove_this@sun#.com>p/ Subject: Re: Mark Gorham's Beer Bash in Reading-0 Message-ID: <adlcdr$k3a$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   Alan Greig wrote:.  H > On Fri, 31 May 2002 12:47:41 +0100, Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1> > wrote: >  >  > E >>>Nobody seems to get the irony of talking about VMS with powerpoint.
 >>>slides. >>>e( >>You've not seen my acetate which says: >>4 >>"Exception in OHP, click to terminate" have you ?! >> > E > I did say (loudly enough for Mark to hear I think), "Now if only it>H > was Star Office under VMS". Or probably Open Office unless Sun could eG > persuaded to support the port themselves. Maybe that's what Andrew isi > really doing :-) >     @ It is highly unlikely that Sun would directly support an OpenVMS3 distribution of StarOffice 6. That would be for HP.   ; OpenVMS is not a volume desktop OS and nothing like SunRayse; exist in the OpenVMS space to provide server based desktops , so it would be an unlikely candidate for us.  @ Solaris, Linux, Win32 with the last 2 being the target platforms to hit MS where it hurts.A   Regardsy Andrew Harrisone   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 05 Jun 2002 16:53:52 GMT # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>a/ Subject: Re: Mark Gorham's Beer Bash in ReadingeJ Message-ID: <AmrL8.195269$ah_.140139@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>   Even Andrew gets it.....  H Sometimes you do not what's best for your customer, but that which hurts your competitor most.a  L Trouble is, Digital, Compaq, and now seemingly HP are doing what helps theirL competitors most, while at the same time as hurting their own customers most too.  G Such is the value of an MBA these days. In Compaq/HP's case it truly is  MBA - Management By Accident.     # "Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy" > <andrew_nospam.harrison_remove_this@sun#.com> wrote in message* news:adlcdr$k3a$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com... >p >u > Alan Greig wrote:F >AJ > > On Fri, 31 May 2002 12:47:41 +0100, Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1>
 > > wrote: > >/ > >t > >cG > >>>Nobody seems to get the irony of talking about VMS with powerpointM > >>>slides. > >>>r* > >>You've not seen my acetate which says: > >>6 > >>"Exception in OHP, click to terminate" have you ?! > >> > >kG > > I did say (loudly enough for Mark to hear I think), "Now if only itsJ > > was Star Office under VMS". Or probably Open Office unless Sun could eI > > persuaded to support the port themselves. Maybe that's what Andrew iso > > really doing :-) > >@ >. >dB > It is highly unlikely that Sun would directly support an OpenVMS5 > distribution of StarOffice 6. That would be for HP.n >w= > OpenVMS is not a volume desktop OS and nothing like SunRayse= > exist in the OpenVMS space to provide server based desktopss. > so it would be an unlikely candidate for us. >rB > Solaris, Linux, Win32 with the last 2 being the target platforms > to hit MS where it hurts.l >h	 > Regardsn > Andrew Harrison. >  >  >  >    ------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2002 13:53:54 -0400; From: "Brian Tillman" <tillman_brian@notnoone.notnohow.com> ' Subject: Re: Newsreader for OpenVMS 7.2-$ Message-ID: <3cfe5034$1@news.si.com>  H >I am looking for a newsreader for OpenVMS 7.2, and would be grateful if >someone would point me to one.h  J There are several.  I've used BULLETIN (from ftp://psfc.mit.edu/bulletin/)D for a character cell reader and Navigator V3.03 and Mosaic 3.6-2 for DECwindows-based readers.d --A Brian Tillman                   Internet: tillman_brian at si.comeA Smiths Aerospace                          tillman at swdev.si.com = 3290 Patterson Ave. SE, MS      Addresses modified to preventt< Grand Rapids, MI 49512-1991     SPAM.  Replace "at" with "@"8        This opinion doesn't represent that of my company   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 05 Jun 2002 14:33:50 +0100tU From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <andrew_nospam.harrison_remove_this@sun#.com>t Subject: Re: No new Alpha sales 0 Message-ID: <adl4fn$hqp$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   Andrew Dodd wrote:  N > I've been read only for a long time here and haven't wanted to get into someF > of the personality wars going on but Andrew Harrison has continuallyL > rubbished the GS systems. I would expect no less as he works for Sun and I& > work for Compaq, part of the new HP. > M > I absolutely agree that benchmarks like SPECint are of limited interest foreD > a commercial buyer, TPC benchmarks have some merit, and in the end > only the application matters.o > N > So I'll throw in some two tier SAP SD benchmarks and see what the readership5 > makes of them, they may have been mentioned before.n > F > Sunfire 15000    900MHZ    76cpus    1,242,000steps/hr    4,100users > 1.88sec resp time    21/09/01t > I > GS320              731MHZ    32cpus    823,000                    2,720B& > 1.9                         30/03/00 > N > Now I accept that if you want to support 4,100 users on a single system then" > the 15K can and the GS320 can't. > M > My reading is that by using 230% more CPUs the 15K does 50% more work. ThatdL > does not to me say that one of these boxes is a technology failure and the > other a triumph. > K > If the benchmark was re-run with current technology CPUs, 1001MHz for the F > GS320, then a projection would be that there would be a much smaller% > difference between the two results.i >     = Sadly you didn't supply or didn't understand the significanceu@ of one peice of information about the two benchmarks which would& have led you reconsider your analysis.  > The GS320 ran SAP 4.0 the Sun ran SAP 4.6, 4.6 uses 1.7 x more) resources from a CPU standpoint than 4.0.y  > Factor that into your analysis and you find that you need more" than a CPU hike to be competitive.    C There is nothing that rubbishes the GS series more comprehensively m  / than the benchmark numbers published by Compaq.>   Regardsb Andrew Harrisonr   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 05 Jun 2002 16:41:09 +0100rU From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <andrew_nospam.harrison_remove_this@sun#.com>n Subject: Re: No new Alpha sales 0 Message-ID: <adlbua$jv4$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   Main, Kerry wrote:  
 > Andrew - >  > Re: No "new" Alpha Sales...e >  > You mean like this ?E > http://www.tse.com/en/mediaNews/newsreleases/news2265.html (Torontob > Stock Exchange)dJ > http://www.mgex.com/news/news_releases/release28.html (Minneapolis Grain > Exchange)tI > http://www.openvms.org/stories.php?story=02/04/08/1897447 (Tyson Foods)eG > http://www.iona.com/pressroom/2002/20020327.htm (IONA and OpenVMS Web  > Enabling)IJ > http://www.compaq.ca/English/enterprise/success/government/healthcentre. > htm  >     9 Interesting but largely irrelevant. Its easy to pluck outp8 indevidual examples of people buying Alpha boxes because9 people are still buying them so some must be referencablee
 customers.  6 What is more interesting is the overall position which7 if the latest UK and EMEA numbers are right are headingt down rather than up.      D > Now, if I wanted to spread fud about Sun and SPARC (as you seem toI > continually want to do wrt to OpenVMS and Alpha), I would point out thea > following url's in the press:o >     8 I origionally got involved in this group because of Robs ridiculous attempts to FUD Sun.   6 I mostly respond to threads that relate to OpenVMS and7 Sun Solaris or OpenVMS and UNIX in general. If you callr> FUD defending Sun's possition against what in Robs case turned9 out to be repetition of journalistic speculation which he 6 would have roundly attacked if it had been directed at7 OpenVMS then so be it, most people would not agree with> you.   Regardsr Andrew Harrisona   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 05 Jun 2002 17:21:58 +0100 U From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <andrew_nospam.harrison_remove_this@sun#.com>o Subject: Re: No new Alpha sales 0 Message-ID: <adlear$koi$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   JF Mezei wrote:,   > Andrew Dodd wrote: > M >>My reading is that by using 230% more CPUs the 15K does 50% more work. That L >>does not to me say that one of these boxes is a technology failure and the >>other a triumph. >> > L > But when a customer compares the cost of both options, does the Sun option0 > cost less even though it has more CPUs in it ? >     9 It doesn't really matter because the analysis was flawed.27 He forgot to factor in the effect of the Sun having rune0 a newer and more resource hungry version of SAP.  = If you want a more direct cost analysis then TPC-H is usefullc    > A fully configured F15K with 13.2 TB of storage cost 5,400,936  > A fully configured GS320 with 3.3 TB of storage cost 4,865,968  E The GS320 ran Informix the Sun Oracle but the licenses were similarlys priced.s  A The reasons for the differences in storage capacity were that thei6 GS320 was running the 300 GB test the F15 the 1000 GB.  = Most of the cost differential is in the storage, but then thed Sun was somewhat faster anyway.v   Regardso Andrew Harrisonl   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 05 Jun 2002 15:00:28 GMT . From: peter@langstoeger.at (Peter LANGSTOEGER) Subject: Re: Open Letter to HP5 Message-ID: <gIpL8.118574$305.1530044@news.chello.at>h  _ In article <adh4qr$bqo$6@web1.cup.hp.com>, hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) writes::n >In article <9059bf6b.0205310725.73d173d4@posting.google.com>, jodonnell@hrblock.com (Jason O'Donnell) writes:< >:2. Major network television commercials promoting OpenVMS. >  >  Not gonna happen.  C Bingo. So, OpenVMS will continue to seem a dead product in the headh3 of the crowd and almost-all/the-uninformed CEO/CIO.,  I btw, Hoff, are you in marketing now ? Or else, how do you know for sure ?h   -- t Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGERi% Network and OpenVMS system specialisth E-mail  peter@langstoeger.atP A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm looking for (a) Network _and_ VMS Job(s)   ------------------------------   Date: 5 Jun 2002 10:51:17 -0600m+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young)n Subject: Re: Open Letter to HP3 Message-ID: <TlodJsTwqVzv@eisner.encompasserve.org>+  f In article <gIpL8.118574$305.1530044@news.chello.at>, peter@langstoeger.at (Peter LANGSTOEGER) writes:a > In article <adh4qr$bqo$6@web1.cup.hp.com>, hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) writes:so >>In article <9059bf6b.0205310725.73d173d4@posting.google.com>, jodonnell@hrblock.com (Jason O'Donnell) writes:M= >>:2. Major network television commercials promoting OpenVMS.e >> >>  Not gonna happen.f > E > Bingo. So, OpenVMS will continue to seem a dead product in the head 5 > of the crowd and almost-all/the-uninformed CEO/CIO.  > K > btw, Hoff, are you in marketing now ? Or else, how do you know for sure ?u >   > 	Because it makes little or no sense, would be one wild guess.  G 	Again, we seldom see niche products advertized on TV.  Even as someone D 	pointed out to me IBM advertized mainframes, I didn't know it.  TheD 	TV commercial referred to shows a mainframe in the corner.  Perhaps? 	it would have helped if the commercial ended with a tagline ofw: 	"IBM's new Zseries."  If it was there, I missed that too.  A 	Where are the OS/400 commercials?  Where are the MVS aka OS/390 m< 	commercials?  Where are the NSK commercials?   , etc., etc.   				Rob-   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 05 Jun 2002 16:37:50 GMTf# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>  Subject: Re: Open Letter to HPI Message-ID: <y7rL8.217988$t8_.89278@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>l   Rob,  8 It does not have to be on TV to get the message through.  J But OpenVMS advertising has to be done in the medium that executives read.< ComputerWorld, et al., reaches technologists and some CIO's.  I The Wall Street Journal reaches the guys who give the CIO's permission toeK write the cheques, ie. the senior managment and the members of the Board ofi Directors..   L I don't know of one CIO that has permission from the Board to run 'wild' andF do what he wants without first getting approval from the board. If theH Board/senior execs know about VMS, then they will ask about it sooner orK later, especially if the ads that are done promoting it discuss the virtuesnK of it in an objective manner. Some (not all) Board members and senior execsn) have brains and do think for themselves..w      8 "Rob Young" <young_r@encompasserve.org> wrote in message- news:TlodJsTwqVzv@eisner.encompasserve.org...sL > In article <gIpL8.118574$305.1530044@news.chello.at>, peter@langstoeger.at (Peter LANGSTOEGER) writes:nL > > In article <adh4qr$bqo$6@web1.cup.hp.com>, hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) writes:A > >>In article <9059bf6b.0205310725.73d173d4@posting.google.com>,i/ jodonnell@hrblock.com (Jason O'Donnell) writes: ? > >>:2. Major network television commercials promoting OpenVMS.f > >> > >>  Not gonna happen.  > >2G > > Bingo. So, OpenVMS will continue to seem a dead product in the head 7 > > of the crowd and almost-all/the-uninformed CEO/CIO.  > >2K > > btw, Hoff, are you in marketing now ? Or else, how do you know for suren ?o > >o >4? > Because it makes little or no sense, would be one wild guess.a >.H > Again, we seldom see niche products advertized on TV.  Even as someoneE > pointed out to me IBM advertized mainframes, I didn't know it.  TheyE > TV commercial referred to shows a mainframe in the corner.  Perhaps @ > it would have helped if the commercial ended with a tagline of; > "IBM's new Zseries."  If it was there, I missed that too.r >eA > Where are the OS/400 commercials?  Where are the MVS aka OS/390'= > commercials?  Where are the NSK commercials?   , etc., etc.u >h > Robe >m   ------------------------------   Date: 5 Jun 2002 12:21:18 -0600 + From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young)  Subject: Re: Open Letter to HP3 Message-ID: <Xf09PXlZ1HbP@eisner.encompasserve.org>a  o In article <y7rL8.217988$t8_.89278@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>, "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> writes:e > Rob, > : > It does not have to be on TV to get the message through. > L > But OpenVMS advertising has to be done in the medium that executives read.> > ComputerWorld, et al., reaches technologists and some CIO's. >    	Yes.t  \ http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=twh%248ayzC36U%40eisner.encompasserve.org&output=gplain  + From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young)  Newsgroups: comp.os.vmsi Subject: Re: Open Letter to HP  Date: 31 May 2002 21:26:35 -0600   [snip]  D > : 	I agree with much of what you say, but I do believe advertisingF > : 	should be targetted.  It is for other similar high-end OSes, i.e.E > : 	AS/400, mainframes and NSK and when was the last time you saw a  H > : 	Rolls-Royce, Lamborghini, etc. commercial on television?  They run . > : 	ads in targetted publications - I assume.   [snip] > M > VMS could stand exposure to a general public who thinks that all computing ,6 > is done on Microsoft/Intel-or-AMD and Apple systems. >     	It would be a waste of money.    4 http://www.computerworld.com/services/mediakit/rates  E 	$21000 an ad page for black and white in ComputerWorld.  A whole lot 7 	more of them than 1 minute of network commercial time.    ----   				Robv   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 05 Jun 2002 06:17:02 GMT ' From: Jeffrey Chimene <jeff@nospam.net> 3 Subject: Re: Open-source poses security risks - Da!.* Message-ID: <3CFDA78D.12FEA128@nospam.net>   "Zane H. Healy" wrote:  + > Bob Ceculski <bob@instantwhip.com> wrote:o/ > > finally, someone with some common sense ...  >kP > Bull****!  Try a group being paid off by Microsoft.  Bob, you seem to like the! > Inquirer, try this on for size:l3 > http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/4/25569.htmlC >A >                         Zane  . Exactly. Here are more links to AdTI nonsense:2 http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=02/06/04/228240   -- microsoft free by 2003   ------------------------------   Date: 5 Jun 02 13:08:52 +0200t) From: p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture)m Subject: RE: OVMS Web Ring) Message-ID: <08PuuNIgZDSg@elias.decus.ch>a  Z In article <0033000066526537000002L072*@MHS>, WILLIAM WEBB <WWEBB1@email.usps.gov> writes:- > I just checked mine and it works just fine.o > A > Can't say I'm exactly happy about one of the neighbors, though.s >  I see what you mean :-(e  N To change the subject slightly, when I feed www.whiteice.com into "What's that: site running?" at www.netcraft.com, the FAQ link points toO http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/accuracy.html#impossible which has the title "Whym@ do you report impossible operating system/server combinations ?"  L I have tried emailing them to point out that, in my case, Apache and VMS areB NOT an impossible combination, but have not received any response.  K Oh, BTW, if you visit that FAQ url, scroll up to see the previous question, ? where they don't report uptimes greater than 497 days. Dooohhh..   __
 Paul Sture Switzerland    ------------------------------   Date: 5 Jun 2002 06:43:50 -0600-- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) + Subject: Re: Quick shareable image questionj3 Message-ID: <v9A8EsaBzzpG@eisner.encompasserve.org>7  F In article <slrnafqopr.jm6.danco@pebble.org>, danco@pebble.org writes:> > In article <3CFD50B2.D05DD9E2@videotron.ca>, JF Mezei wrote: >  >> danco@pebble.org wrote:  >>> That's what GSMATCH is for.  >> sW >> GSMATCH does nothing when the shareable image is accessed with LIB$FIND_IMAGE_SYMBOLm > K > Well, of course not :-) and it's generally not needed when you're runtimei% > activating shareable images either.t  ? The only reason such checks are not needed when you are runtimew@ activating is that you should not runtime activate when you need= such checks.  To say that most runtime activations are from ah> programmer who understood this concept and took steps to avoid4 problems requires a certain suspension of disbelief.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 05 Jun 2002 15:57:03 +02000- From: Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@Free.fr>e, Subject: Re: Simulate hardware failure. How?' Message-ID: <3CFE18AF.97D3C9BA@Free.fr>0  . open the box and hot-unplug a non-system disk?   D.   Lyndon Bartels wrote:d > E > I've been working with DecEvent on my PWS. And if I read everythingiG > right, it's supposed to be able to monitor the errorlog for problems.R > 9 > Supposedly I can add email user for different purposes.G > / > Then I tested to see if the email would work.t >  > $ Diagnose test subsribers > 5 > For example. And the emails went through perfectly.o > I > But how can I simulate a hardware failure such that everything would ben! > triggered to sending the email?    ------------------------------   Date: 5 Jun 2002 07:38:53 -0700-% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net> , Subject: Re: Simulate hardware failure. How?) Message-ID: <adl7pt02p0j@drn.newsguy.com>D  6 In article <3CFE18AF.97D3C9BA@Free.fr>, Didier says... >C/ >open the box and hot-unplug a non-system disk?o  = Hitting eject on a floppy would likely log something as well.d   >D.b >f >Lyndon Bartels wrote: >> aF >> I've been working with DecEvent on my PWS. And if I read everythingH >> right, it's supposed to be able to monitor the errorlog for problems. >> .: >> Supposedly I can add email user for different purposes. >> h0 >> Then I tested to see if the email would work. >>   >> $ Diagnose test subsribersr >> e6 >> For example. And the emails went through perfectly. >>  J >> But how can I simulate a hardware failure such that everything would be" >> triggered to sending the email?   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 05 Jun 2002 16:30:07 +0100N( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1>, Subject: Re: Simulate hardware failure. How?) Message-ID: <3CFE2E7F.26EF4159@127.0.0.1>    Alan Greig wrote:G > 8 > In article <3CFE18AF.97D3C9BA@Free.fr>, Didier says... > >r1 > >open the box and hot-unplug a non-system disk?  > ? > Hitting eject on a floppy would likely log something as well.   
 Mount verify?9  ? I have a special, really scratched CD I use to generate errors.0  E How about a version of ZDEC (the one that zeroes error counters) thatr increments ?  $ Too reliable... mutter mutter... :-)   -- i( Regards, Nic Clews CSC Computer Sciences nclews at csc dot com    ------------------------------   Date: 5 Jun 2002 09:59:29 -0700S From: plugge@usa.net (Donald)s% Subject: Storage of Conslidated Mediae= Message-ID: <943ed95e.0206050859.301bffab@posting.google.com>0  E I'm currently doing some spring cleaning and right now I'm staring at E a growing pile of consolidated distributions, along with a Great Grey  Wall.o  F I was curious how other systems managers handle storage and purging ofF both CDROMs and manuals.  I'm running OpenVMS 7.2-1 on all nodes (withE the exception of a retiring VAX 6.2) and really don't see a reason tot> go back to older versions of any of the layered products.  TheD Freeware CD seems to be commulative and the older fireware CDs don't do me any good.a  D In fact, I read all of my documentation from either the CD or compaqC (HP) web site, so I'm even considering a wrecking ball on the GreattB Wall.  User Guide's and other manuals can be accessed from a PC orC Macintosh in case the system is down and I need reference material.i  F Any feedback of site specific management of CD and docs would be quite insightful.f  
 Sincerely, Donald G Plugge    ------------------------------   Date: 5 Jun 2002 02:25:54 -0700e% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>qY Subject: Re: The Press and the IA-64 Port (was Re: Another analyst says VMS port won't bet) Message-ID: <adklf201ldf@drn.newsguy.com>v  P In article <adh30f$bqo$4@web1.cup.hp.com>, hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam says... >h >e >Alan Greig skrev: >uI >: I trust someone from Compaq will contact both Computer Weekly and Metaw >: Group to put them right...e >iA >  Analysts have their opinions, you have yours, and I have mine.- >-C >  Right now, I need to get my part of the OpenVMS IA-64 bootstrap 2A >  working and I need to get the source code control system into sB >  shape for certain of the new OpenVMS IA-64 source code modules.  K Which is why I addressed a copy of the post to Mark Gorham and others. MarkeJ responded and hopefully will do his best to state why the port *does* makeN sense. I don't expect you to have to take time off the porting work. As far as6 I'm concerned the faster the port is done, the better.  A >  I noticed you missed the London Technical Update -- you missedeF >  out on learning the details of what OpenVMS Engineering is working E >  on, and directly from the engineers working on the code.  I could e  N Yes unfortunately I was struck down with a nasty case of Flu (or similar) thatL week. Didn't really want to struggle along and saddle VMS engineering with a virus :)  C >  cite various of the available presentations from that and other p  M I did make it along to "Mark Gorham's Beer Bash" at Reading last week though. M And very upbeat it was. Mark certainly listened to some concerns of mine (andtM numerous other customers). I just hope he can continue and accelerate some ofuN the positives that did happen under Marcello. From my point of view that meansO Enterprise software such as SAP should be available for the premiere EnterpriselM opeating system, VMS. For good or for bad, SAP is where my company is headingnK globally and HP dropping MPE (we are MPE users for come critical production(M facilities) just after providing us with a five year roadmap (sound familiar)nK was cited in our last worldwide IT Executive Council meeting as a reason tovF consider accelerating our move away from MANMAN on both MPE *and* VMS.  L If we don't have plans to keep at least one major application on VMS for theN forseeable future, any suggestion that we put web and JAVA servers on VMS willJ not be treated kindly. "What Alan. You want to keep VMS just for the web?"  N At one point I thought I might have had a long term solution of using VMS as aO back end Oracle database server but Compaq/HP/SAP/Oracle won't support VMS even- as the back-end to SAP.e  L What I'm really saying is that the port is just one half of the equation. AnO announcement that (say) SAP were on board and that HP would push VMS as the SAPs= platform of choice, would really give me internal ammunition.,  = Mark listened to all this and, I think, genuinely understood.m  O Meanwhile the company I work for has been involving me more and more in WAN andb LAN projects...o    B >  events, but the best proof will simply involve getting OpenVMS # >  on IA-64 available and shipping.    Agreed 100%    ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 05 Jun 2002 13:52:06 GMTl# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>wY Subject: Re: The Press and the IA-64 Port (was Re: Another analyst says VMS port won't beuI Message-ID: <aIoL8.194944$ah_.23327@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>i  : "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message& news:3CFDFF28.E40AB171@videotron.ca... > Alan Greig wrote:t >gJ > If you have one bad apple on the food chain to the top, then the message fromI > the low end (Gorham) will never reach the top end, and the top end willeI > continue to make decisions and act in ways which are detrimental to thet lowh > end's wishes/actions.   " Exactly. You can't push up a rope.   ------------------------------   Date: 5 Jun 2002 07:37:40 -0700-% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>0Y Subject: Re: The Press and the IA-64 Port (was Re: Another analyst says VMS port won't bet) Message-ID: <adl7nk02ore@drn.newsguy.com>@  O In article <aIoL8.194944$ah_.23327@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>, "Johne says...( >f >f; >"JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in messaget' >news:3CFDFF28.E40AB171@videotron.ca...a >> Alan Greig wrote: >>K >> If you have one bad apple on the food chain to the top, then the messageh >from J >> the low end (Gorham) will never reach the top end, and the top end willJ >> continue to make decisions and act in ways which are detrimental to the >low >> end's wishes/actions. >n# >Exactly. You can't push up a rope.   N Believe you me, the point that we need *real* committment to VMS from the veryP top down was made to Gorham. Gorham replied that Capellas had been challenged onM the "eviscerate" speech and Capellas responded that he had been quoted out ofoI context. When a fuller context of the speech was given plus references togM previous occasions Capellas and Winkler have said exactly the same thing - ie1E "Our strategy is to help Microsoft conquer the Datacentre. The era of:M proprietary systems is over", Gorham said he understood how this would not gooG down well with many customers and promised to go back and work on it...g   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 05 Jun 2002 15:29:56 GMT 1 From: LESLIE@JRLVAX.HOUSTON.RR.COM (Jerry Leslie) Y Subject: Re: The Press and the IA-64 Port (was Re: Another analyst says VMS port won't ben; Message-ID: <U7qL8.71212$9z5.4666040@typhoon.austin.rr.com>C  & Alan Greig (a.greig@virgin.net) wrote:K : In article <aIoL8.194944$ah_.23327@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>,o : "John says...  : >e : > = : >"JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message.) : >news:3CFDFF28.E40AB171@videotron.ca...a : >> Alan Greig wrote: : >>M : >> If you have one bad apple on the food chain to the top, then the messager : >from L : >> the low end (Gorham) will never reach the top end, and the top end willL : >> continue to make decisions and act in ways which are detrimental to the : >low : >> end's wishes/actions. : >e% : >Exactly. You can't push up a rope.  : H : Believe you me, the point that we need *real* committment to VMS from I : the very top down was made to Gorham. Gorham replied that Capellas had OI : been challenged on the "eviscerate" speech and Capellas responded that aI : he had been quoted out of context. When a fuller context of the speech  G : was given plus references to previous occasions Capellas and Winkler cL : have said exactly the same thing - ie  "Our strategy is to help Microsoft J : conquer the Datacentre. The era of proprietary systems is over", Gorham I : said he understood how this would not go down well with many customers i+ : and promised to go back and work on it...t :   I It won't be much of a surprise if there are ads, or even a TV commercial,gC from IBM or Sun quoting those statements from Capellas and Winkler.     2 --Jerry Leslie   (my opinions are strictly my own)9   Note: leslie@jrlvax.houston.rr.com is invalid for emailt   ------------------------------   Date: 5 Jun 2002 08:47:01 -0700s( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)Y Subject: Re: The Press and the IA-64 Port (was Re: Another analyst says VMS port won't beT< Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0206050747.263fdc8@posting.google.com>  V Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net> wrote in message news:<adklf201ldf@drn.newsguy.com>...R > In article <adh30f$bqo$4@web1.cup.hp.com>, hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam says... > >e > >  > >Alan Greig skrev: > >3K > >: I trust someone from Compaq will contact both Computer Weekly and Meta  > >: Group to put them right...e > >iC > >  Analysts have their opinions, you have yours, and I have mine.  > > E > >  Right now, I need to get my part of the OpenVMS IA-64 bootstrap  C > >  working and I need to get the source code control system into tD > >  shape for certain of the new OpenVMS IA-64 source code modules. > M > Which is why I addressed a copy of the post to Mark Gorham and others. Mark.L > responded and hopefully will do his best to state why the port *does* makeP > sense. I don't expect you to have to take time off the porting work. As far as8 > I'm concerned the faster the port is done, the better. > D > >  events, but the best proof will simply involve getting OpenVMS % > >  on IA-64 available and shipping.s > 
 > Agreed 100%   F the port makes sense because if it isn't done, they will lose a lot ofC VMS customers to IBM, including us ... and do not rush the port too C much ... it has to be done properly so reliability and security are0F not compromised ... minimize bugs as much as possible ... think things: out well, esp. compiler and performance tuning changes ...   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 05 Jun 2002 16:50:43 GMT.# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>rY Subject: Re: The Press and the IA-64 Port (was Re: Another analyst says VMS port won't bepI Message-ID: <DjrL8.195254$ah_.29198@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>p  I Not that it means much, because my expectations of excellence from CompaqpG have long since disappeared, but I called the former HQ of Compaq in mygF country today and asked to speak with the 'OpenVMS marketing Manager'.  K The switchboard operator didn't know what I was talking about. She asked me6 to spell it.  1 I asked her if she knew what it was. She said no.l  C I asked her what she would do if I asked for the 'Windows MarketinggE Manager'. She immediately offered to put me through to their software  marketing dept.   K In all my years of business, I have never encountered such apathy, not fromaG the poor switchboard operator, but from senior management whose job (at H least one of them) it is to ensure that policies of training staff to be? able to somewhat knowledgably direct customers are implemented.w  K Curly ought to be forced by all former Compaq shareholders to commit ritual1 Seppuku on national TV.a    2 "Alan Greig" <a.greig@virgin.net> wrote in message# news:adl7nk02ore@drn.newsguy.com...iK > In article <aIoL8.194944$ah_.23327@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>,u "John0	 > says...  > >m > >f= > >"JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in messages) > >news:3CFDFF28.E40AB171@videotron.ca.... > >> Alan Greig wrote: > >>E > >> If you have one bad apple on the food chain to the top, then thei messagem > >from L > >> the low end (Gorham) will never reach the top end, and the top end willL > >> continue to make decisions and act in ways which are detrimental to the > >low > >> end's wishes/actions. > >C% > >Exactly. You can't push up a rope.  >cK > Believe you me, the point that we need *real* committment to VMS from thed veryD > top down was made to Gorham. Gorham replied that Capellas had been
 challenged on L > the "eviscerate" speech and Capellas responded that he had been quoted out ofK > context. When a fuller context of the speech was given plus references to0L > previous occasions Capellas and Winkler have said exactly the same thing - ieG > "Our strategy is to help Microsoft conquer the Datacentre. The era of L > proprietary systems is over", Gorham said he understood how this would not goI > down well with many customers and promised to go back and work on it...n >g   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 05 Jun 2002 08:08:18 -0400u- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>"Y Subject: Re: The Press and the IA-64 Port (was Re: Another analyst says VMS port won't bel, Message-ID: <3CFDFF28.E40AB171@videotron.ca>   Alan Greig wrote:i? > Mark listened to all this and, I think, genuinely understood.   N Gorham may be the most gung-ho VMS supporter in the world, but it won't do anyH good unless HP management lets him do stuff that would make VMS grow, be better known etc etc.-  H In talking to him, did you get any feeling for how much leaway he has inK determining VMS's future ? Or is is more of a manager who fill out reports,jM does employee evaluations etc, but has generally little say over what must ber$ done to VMS at the corporate level ?  N For instance, would Gorham be allowed to talk directly to Carly, or would thatI be considered deadly because he would be going over the heads of too manyH important people ?  L Also, did Gorham give you any indication of the type of thing Stallard is ? H Or does Gorham have no access to Stallard and must go through Marcello ?  M If you have one bad apple on the food chain to the top, then the message from G the low end (Gorham) will never reach the top end, and the top end will K continue to make decisions and act in ways which are detrimental to the lowm end's wishes/actions.c   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 05 Jun 2002 06:50:08 GMT * From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>5 Subject: Re: TPS and Max I/O. How are the calculated?r@ Message-ID: <AwiL8.59446$4i.6464744@bin2.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>  ; "Lyndon Bartels" <lbartels@pressenter.com> wrote in messagen( news:3CFD2994.5346AD47@pressenter.com...? > I was looking at some information on various alpha servers...c >n; > And I'm seeing TPS numbers, and Max I/O bandwith numbers.d > G > In simple terms, (so I can understand, and hence explain it to othersd. > too. ;-) ) how are these numbers arrived at?  G TPS is a number arrived at mostly by the use of money:  the more you'resI willing to spend, the higher the numbers will usually be.  There are also F variations (the 'cluster cheat' being the primary one) that often makeB whatever numbers you obtain relatively meaningless as standards ofI comparison (but those who find large numbers intrinsically impressive mayj! still consider them significant).    > G > I'm guessing TPS is more of a tested benchmark, where MAX I/O is moreB! > dependant on hardware config...e  K You are correct that I/O bandwidth is a measurement (or estimate) much more K closely related to the hardware.  Of course, it too is subject to ingeniousIH fudging of base assumptions (are the I/Os large or small?  sequential orK random?  in both directions or only one?  how about contention?), but thereSH are few enough variables that with a bit of knowledge and some componentI specs one can arrive at at least rough inter-system comparative estimates / without much help [sic] at all from the vendor.   K [Sorry, but it's kind of late tonight to delve into this subject in greaterhG depth.  Perhaps someone who is wider awake will pick up from this point-
 tomorrow.]   - bill   ------------------------------   Date: 5 Jun 2002 09:54:09 -0600>+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young)?5 Subject: Re: TPS and Max I/O. How are the calculated?e3 Message-ID: <xKsSzp4cYsGM@eisner.encompasserve.org>f  m In article <AwiL8.59446$4i.6464744@bin2.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>, "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> writes:l > = > "Lyndon Bartels" <lbartels@pressenter.com> wrote in messagei* > news:3CFD2994.5346AD47@pressenter.com...@ >> I was looking at some information on various alpha servers... >>< >> And I'm seeing TPS numbers, and Max I/O bandwith numbers. >>H >> In simple terms, (so I can understand, and hence explain it to others/ >> too. ;-) ) how are these numbers arrived at?0 > I > TPS is a number arrived at mostly by the use of money:  the more you'reaK > willing to spend, the higher the numbers will usually be.  There are also H > variations (the 'cluster cheat' being the primary one) that often makeD > whatever numbers you obtain relatively meaningless as standards ofK > comparison (but those who find large numbers intrinsically impressive may # > still consider them significant).n >   > 	Yeah.. few years ago in a VAX to Alpha conversion one of the A 	talked about items was TPS.  So to enlighten management, I spentfC 	some time tracking down TPS for various VAXes and how they comparev* 	to Alphas.  Something to say "wow" about.   >>H >> I'm guessing TPS is more of a tested benchmark, where MAX I/O is more" >> dependant on hardware config... > M > You are correct that I/O bandwidth is a measurement (or estimate) much morecM > closely related to the hardware.  Of course, it too is subject to ingeniousaJ > fudging of base assumptions (are the I/Os large or small?  sequential orM > random?  in both directions or only one?  how about contention?), but there-J > are few enough variables that with a bit of knowledge and some componentK > specs one can arrive at at least rough inter-system comparative estimatesy1 > without much help [sic] at all from the vendor.n > M > [Sorry, but it's kind of late tonight to delve into this subject in greateroI > depth.  Perhaps someone who is wider awake will pick up from this pointq > tomorrow.] >   ; 	Can't recall where I found it but I had information that a F 	certain large VAX model was/is ~300 IO/sec and the ES40 was/is ~7000 H 	IO/sec per CPU.  Spending a good deal of time in Google might track it F 	down.  It became a bullet point in a powerpoint for me.  They must be? 	small sequential I/O, as we know they make for larger numbers.c   				Roba   ------------------------------  + Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2002 19:47:47 +0200 (CEST)u: From: "Gotfryd Smolik, VMS lists" <gotfryd@stanpol.com.pl>0 Subject: Re: UAF files on Fibre disks and v7.2-1J Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0206051939400.31432-100000@irys.stanpol.com.pl>  ) On Tue, 4 Jun 2002, Lyndon Bartels wrote:c  G >+I want to move the UAF and other files off my CI based system disk toS- >+fibre based disks... for various reasons...r >+I >+My question is, if I do this, will I need to go into wwidmgr to make myu? >+ES40s "aware" of the fibre disk? Like I would a system disk? r  B  No. The wwid* setting are for console, but UAF & co are accessed  thru "regular VMS" access.  C >+Assuming, of course, I mount the disks and define the logicals ino) >+sylogicals.com, like the template says.w    Properly - and will work.  G >+During startup, will the the fibre disks be "available" early enough?hE >+Will the OS see the disk? and have access to it early enough in the 
 >+startup?  @  No problem. When clustering is enabled - then you may "see" the% disks in first DCL startup command :)v?  If not - I am unsure at this moment - at least after CONFIGUREo the disk(s) are available.    Regards - Gotfryd   -- lE ===================================================================== F $ ON F$ERROR("LANGUAGE","ENGLISH","IN_MESSAGE").GT.F$ERROR("NORMAL") - 		THEN EXCUSE/OBJECT=MEl. $!                        GS@stanpol.zabrze.plE =====================================================================    ------------------------------  + Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2002 19:53:29 +0200 (CEST)S: From: "Gotfryd Smolik, VMS lists" <gotfryd@stanpol.com.pl>0 Subject: Re: UAF files on Fibre disks and v7.2-1J Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0206051949360.31432-100000@irys.stanpol.com.pl>  ' On Wed, 5 Jun 2002, Rainer Giese wrote:o  C >+"Lyndon Bartels" <lbartels@pressenter.com> schrieb im Newsbeitragc* >+news:3CFD28F0.72B93086@pressenter.com...I >+> During startup, will the the fibre disks be "available" early enough? G >+> Will the OS see the disk? and have access to it early enough in the  >+> startup? >+N >+To give a short answer : It works. I mount the disk in SYSTARTUP_VMS.COM and >+define the logicals here too.u  @  My 0.02$$: in some cases SYSTARTUP may be little too late; some? user quotas (like for authorized RUN/DETACH) from "old" UAF andt@ improperly started SECURITY_SERVER may give you side effect... !    Regards - Gotfryd   --  E ===================================================================== F $ ON F$ERROR("LANGUAGE","ENGLISH","IN_MESSAGE").GT.F$ERROR("NORMAL") - 		THEN EXCUSE/OBJECT=MEr. $!                        GS@stanpol.zabrze.plE =====================================================================s   ------------------------------  * Date: Thursday, 06 Jun 2002 00:51:05 -0600! From: Adndrew@novaresponse.com.aun Subject: Urgent News Flash/ Message-ID: <06060200.5105@novaresponse.com.au>    URGENT NEWSFLASH  @ The government has installed BLACK BOXES into ISPs to watch your Internet surfing.n  C When you are targeted, the first you will know is the KNOCK AT YOURh DOOR and the JAIL SENTENCE.   < If you think you have cleaned your computer - you are WRONG.  C They can recover from your PC every single picture or item you haveg ever watched on the Internet.s  6 You need protection. You need an Evidence Eliminator.    Click Here.s  # http://www.geocities.com/testee234/    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 05 Jun 2002 09:21:52 +0100 ( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1>: Subject: Re: Who does the CLUEXIT? (was Re: Strange crash)) Message-ID: <3CFDCA20.97E7DA93@127.0.0.1>r  
 nic wrote: >    > Main node = 2 votesh > Other node = 1 vote, > Qdisk = 1 vote.  >  > (4+2)/2=3=quorum > H > If you main node lost the quorum disk then it would have static quorum; > (2 and waiting for 1). Hang yes, but not likely to crash.wI > Your secondary node could not have static quorum as 1 + (waiting for) 1i+ > is only 2, this would never equal quorum.m  H I'd just like to point out that this is a silly way to set up a cluster.F Two nodes, one with more votes than the only other node, (and a quorumC disk) yet not enough for quorum, therefore needing the quorum disk.n  G IF the reason that you want to ensure that the 'minor' node CLUEXITs isaE that you have some concerns over cluster interconnect reliability andtG disk paths, then don't use a quorum disk but stick to the system voting A scheme which will add a little more certainty. Also, you'll avoidlE unnecessary quorum disk revalidation which can take 4 x QDSKINTERVAL.-  G This is more true when using SCSI clusters because there is more chanceEG that more of the systems in the cluster have a disk path and some othereF failed interconnect. While CI and DSSI can pass SCS (cluster) traffic,? SCSI does not and relies on some other medium. A broken network(? interconnect leaves both systems chattering to the quorum file,n> therefore disagreeing, and you could see more disagreeing thanG reconfiguration completion. One other tidbit to consider is that if younH have a failed NI interconnect, then how come your users can still accessE the cluster's services via the network? (Private crossed LAN failure,g [b]router blocked SCS).w  G With more than two nodes, it is a better reason to use a quorum disk iniF order to use static quorum to provide "automatic deterministic" systemF behaviour. In other words you're allowing the systems to determine the= best way to behave, which will probably be best in that case.t   An African or European swallow?d -- a( Regards, Nic Clews CSC Computer Sciences nclews at csc dot coml   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 05 Jun 2002 15:20:33 GMTb1 From: Forrest Kenney <Forrest.Kenney@hp.com.doom> > Subject: Re: Would you like to see this on the VMS freeware CD+ Message-ID: <3CFE2A9A.9A22D426@hp.com.doom>h  \     Well this midnight hack is getting larger.  I picked up a cheap Gravis gamepad, I made a` one line change and that is working.  What if anything the military folks do with this is out of my control.  As is testing.t     forrest    ------------------------------   Date: 5 Jun 2002 12:45:58 GMTd1 From: bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)n, Subject: Re: [Change topic]:  USofA'an coins+ Message-ID: <adl166$d38$1@info.cs.uofs.edu>t  B In article <drNK8.108081$jm.10677741@bin6.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>,-  "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> writes:u |> 28 |> "Bill Gunshannon" <bill@cs.uofs.edu> wrote in message? |> news:20020603093857.B73117-100000@server2.cs.scranton.edu...y* |> > On Thu, 30 May 2002, Bill Todd wrote: |> > |> > >H |> > > Which ($14.99) is exactly the case with the digital pumps.  But I
 |> haven'tH |> > > noticed whether the final calculation is rounded up (i.e., 10.001
 |> gallonsI |> > > would cost $15.00) or to the nearest penny (i.e., you wouldn't hit 	 |> $15.00s# |> > > until about 10.004 gallons).C |> >+ |> > Actually, 10.0006671114 gallons of gasg |> eM |> Actually, 10.003+ gallons, which I rounded up to 10.004 since 10.003 would O |> have been too low (and as I said I think the pump resolution is 0.001).  Youw4 |> appear to have dropped a decimal point somewhere.   Hmmm.  let's try this.   1 gal cost $1.499. Ergo 1 gal costs 1499 mills.H 1 / 1499 = qty per mill = 0.0006671114 (at least that's what xcalc said) 1499 mills = 1 gal    1 mill  = 0.0006671114 gale  -------------------------------- 1500 mills = 1.0006671114 gal  $1.50      = 1.0006671114 galr  > You must have used a calculator with a terible rounding error.= The actual amounts are outside the likely percentage of errorn  of an analog device like a pump.   bill   -- nJ Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2002.310 ************************