1 INFO-VAX	Thu, 06 Jun 2002	Volume 2002 : Issue 311       Contents:* Re: $WAKE() lost during high AST activity?3 Re: Another analyst says VMS port won't be finished  Re: Challenge: Find The Fault  Re: Challenge: Find The Fault  cname/url identification Re: cname/url identification Re: Could linux become VMS?  DEC BASIC  Open VMS position  Re: DEC BASIC  Open VMS position  Re: DEC BASIC  Open VMS position	 DiskQuota 
 Re: DiskQuota 
 Re: DiskQuota  Re: dlt tape space Re: dlt tape space Re: ES45 and VMS  7.2-1  Re: ES45 and VMS  7.2-1 A FAQ and Freeware locations was - Re: OpenVMS FAQ due next week... ) Re: For all you hobbyists: IDE on SCSI !! ) Re: For all you hobbyists: IDE on SCSI !! ) Re: For all you hobbyists: IDE on SCSI !! - Re: has anyone ported this opensource to VMS?  Help tuning NISCS_MAX_PKTSZ  Re: Inquirer says Alpha lives?6 Re: It works by itself since ages, why would I change?6 Re: It works by itself since ages, why would I change?# Re: IT world becoming like lawyers? # Re: LBR$ (library) condition values 2 Re: Linux gains acceptance at expense of Microsoft& Re: Mark Gorham's Beer Bash in Reading Re: Newsreader for OpenVMS 7.2 Re: Newsreader for OpenVMS 7.2 Re: Open Letter to HP  Re: Open Letter to HP  Re: Open Letter to HP  Re: Open Letter to HP  Re: Open Letter to HP  Re: Open Letter to HP  Re: Open Letter to HP  Re: Open Letter to HP  Re: Open Letter to HP  Re: Open Letter to HP  Re: Open Letter to HP  Re: Open Letter to HP  Re: Open Letter to HP  Re: Open Letter to HP  Re: Open Letter to HP  Re: Open Letter to HP  Re: Open Letter to HP  Re: Open Letter to HP  Re: Open Letter to HP  Re: Open Letter to HP  Re: Open Letter to HP  Re: Open Letter to HP  Re: Open Letter to HP  Re: Open Letter to HP  Re: Open Letter to HP  Re: Open Letter to HP  Re: Open Letter to HP  Re: Open Letter to HP  Re: Open Letter to HP   Re: OpenVMS FAQ due next week...  Re: OpenVMS FAQ due next week...  Re: OpenVMS FAQ due next week...  Re: OpenVMS FAQ due next week..." Re: OT: Units (was USofA'an coins)B Re: Shadowset on standalone system goes into merge state on reboot# Re: Simulate hardware failure. How?   Re: Storage of Conslidated Media  Re: Storage of Conslidated Media  Re: Storage of Conslidated Media  TCP socket communication queries$ Re: TCP socket communication queries The HP 21-point planP Re: The Press and the IA-64 Port (was Re: Another analyst says VMS port won't beP Re: The Press and the IA-64 Port (was Re: Another analyst says VMS port won't be VMS/PMDF problem5 Re: Would you like to see this on the VMS freeware CD # Re: [Change topic]:  USofA'an coins   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------   Date: 5 Jun 2002 17:51:33 GMT 2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)3 Subject: Re: $WAKE() lost during high AST activity? ) Message-ID: <adlj35$lm$1@web1.cup.hp.com>   ^ In article <2002Jun2.180239@hujicc>, yehavi@vms.huji.ac.il (Yehavi Bourvine (58-4279)) writes:  N :  I have a program in DEC-C which has the following logic: It has a main loopN :which does a few instructions, then sleeps for a while, do a few instructionsP :sleeps and so on. The sleep is done by calling $SETIMR followed by $HIBER (and  :the $SETIMR calls $WAKE). : M :  While the program's main loop is active there is an extensive I/O done via P :AST's (terminal I/O). I noticed that during high AST activity the $WAKE is lost6 :(i.e. it is called, but the $HIBER does not wake up). : > :  Anyone noticed such behaviour and knows how to overcome it?  J   You have probably lost a $wake call due to a race condition in to code, J   this is fairly easy to do and this is why most folks use both a $schdwk J   and place $hiber in a loop -- the $schdwk provides a way to recover fromF   a lost $wake, and the loop provides a way to recover from a spuriousJ   $wake.  The main application then uses some application-specific way to H   poll for actual work; code that is located within the loop, of course.  F   Please see topics (1661) and (1503) over in the Ask The Wizard area.%   Also (2637) and (3783) are related.   6   For some general details on hibernation, please see:.     http://www.openvms.compaq.com/doc/73final/9     5841/5841pro_015.html#104_processhibernationandsuspen   E   I queued some heavily updated example code for the manuals, I have  E   no idea why the old "Orion" code example stuff is in the manuals.   "   (I'll have to go check on that.)  C   On sufficiently old OpenVMS releases, the debugger itself can eat C   $wake calls -- as usually requested when posting a question, the  F   inclusion of the version number can and does help us determine what C   behaviour is expected and what fix(es) -- if appropriate -- might C   be available.  For details on the information that can be helpful G   in your getting the speediest answer when posting a question, please  3   see the introductory sections of the OpenVMS FAQ.     N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------N       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.com    N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 06 Jun 2002 00:54:33 GMT 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> < Subject: Re: Another analyst says VMS port won't be finished' Message-ID: <3CFEB668.DF38D63B@fsi.net>    Alan Greig wrote:  > [snip]! > I trust someone from Compaq ...   H I'd be careful of that for now, until "the new" HP proves its worthiness& (or lack thereof, as the case may be).   --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 06 Jun 2002 00:48:49 GMT 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> & Subject: Re: Challenge: Find The Fault' Message-ID: <3CFEB50D.A918C93F@fsi.net>    "John E. Malmberg" wrote:  >  > David J. Dachtera wrote: > > John Smith wrote:  > > M > >>Assuming that the original statements are true, but obfuscated to protect N > >>the guilty, the numbers represent  the ranking in the Fortune 100 of those > >>companies. > >>N > >>If the original statements of your 1st post are in fact wild fiction, thenO > >>connecting the dots (so to speak) is a wasted exercise. But should HP issue 1 > >>statements like that, it compromises nothing.  > > < > > Thank you for that. I knew that, that's why I posted it. > = > But what is the point in posting statements that can not be  > independantly verified?   B Happens every day. Say, "advertising". The point is not to acquireB credibility at that stage, only to raise awareness of a product orH service. Credibility comes later on - goes, too, if you try to take your$ prospect and/or customer for a fool.  " > It causes counter claims of FUD.  A I thought "FUD" was negative. Seems to me these statements, while * entirely fictional, are entirely positive.   --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 06 Jun 2002 00:49:14 GMT 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> & Subject: Re: Challenge: Find The Fault' Message-ID: <3CFEB529.188370AA@fsi.net>    Bill Todd wrote: > : > "John E. Malmberg" <wb8tyw@qsl.network> wrote in message& > news:3CFD8EB2.8030601@qsl.network... >  > ...  > ? > > But what is the point in posting statements that can not be = > > independantly verified?  It causes counter claims of FUD.  > M > I guess that's one of the prices a company pays when it completely destroys  > any reputation for honesty.   
 Amen, bro.   --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 05 Jun 2002 14:49:15 -0500 + From: Chuck Aaron <caaron@ceris.purdue.edu> ! Subject: cname/url identification 0 Message-ID: <3CFE6B3B.187DEEAB@ceris.purdue.edu>  D Can someone tell me how to get a list of cnames/url's that are valid from vms to vms's web server?    Chuck    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 05 Jun 2002 16:24:19 -0400 ! From: Jim Agnew <jpagnew@vcu.edu> % Subject: Re: cname/url identification ' Message-ID: <3CFE7373.E0BCD023@vcu.edu>   G hhmm.. you may want to be more specific, as you can really say what you G want as far as that goes...  you set them in a file on the server, plus D you have to co-operate with your network operations group to put the alias names on your network.  ! Is that what you were looking at?    J.   Chuck Aaron wrote: > F > Can someone tell me how to get a list of cnames/url's that are valid > from vms to vms's web server?  >  > Chuck    ------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2002 16:10:18 -0400; From: "Brian Tillman" <tillman_brian@notnoone.notnohow.com> $ Subject: Re: Could linux become VMS?$ Message-ID: <3cfe702d$1@news.si.com>  4 >Andrew, I tried to explain this to you once before.  E Bob, pay attention to whom you reply.  Your reply was to Phillip, not K Andrew, and Phillip knows the difference between VMS without and with an IP  stack. --A Brian Tillman                   Internet: tillman_brian at si.com A Smiths Aerospace                          tillman at swdev.si.com = 3290 Patterson Ave. SE, MS      Addresses modified to prevent < Grand Rapids, MI 49512-1991     SPAM.  Replace "at" with "@"8        This opinion doesn't represent that of my company   ------------------------------   Date: 5 Jun 2002 17:14:37 -0700 # From: jcarl@paradigm-wa.com (Jason) % Subject: DEC BASIC  Open VMS position < Message-ID: <e1746a1.0206051614.685ca347@posting.google.com>  E I'd like to help someone find a job with these skills.  I have a open D position.  If anyone knows of people send them my way or if you have? an idea of where to post to find people I would appreciate it.   Thanks!    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 06 Jun 2002 01:22:37 GMT 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> ) Subject: Re: DEC BASIC  Open VMS position ' Message-ID: <3CFEBCFC.E9C2F0C3@fsi.net>    Jason wrote: > G > I'd like to help someone find a job with these skills.  I have a open F > position.  If anyone knows of people send them my way or if you have@ > an idea of where to post to find people I would appreciate it.	 > Thanks!   5 Where are you and where can we find your job posting?    Hints:1 1. Include (at least) a company URL in your post.   H 2. Try posting the job in the newsgroup, then try Monster, ComputerJobs,B Dice or whatever if that doesn't yield any interesting candidates.   --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 05 Jun 2002 22:03:53 -0400 2 From: rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger)) Subject: Re: DEC BASIC  Open VMS position L Message-ID: <rdeininger-0506022203530001@11cust175.tnt2.nashua.nh.da.uu.net>  < In article <e1746a1.0206051614.685ca347@posting.google.com>,$ jcarl@paradigm-wa.com (Jason) wrote:  F >I'd like to help someone find a job with these skills.  I have a openE >position.  If anyone knows of people send them my way or if you have @ >an idea of where to post to find people I would appreciate it.  >Thanks!   Location, Location, Location!    Where is the job located?   8 I doubt anyone will object if you post the details here.   ------------------------------   Date: 5 Jun 2002 15:44:34 -0700 - From: zroundtree@oasys.com (Zoltan Roundtree)  Subject: DiskQuota= Message-ID: <bf1b7500.0206051444.4f631ebf@posting.google.com>   F Is there a way to limit DISKQUOTA to a particular directory as apposed to using the entire disk?    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 06 Jun 2002 00:01:50 GMT L From: winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU ("Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr") Subject: Re: DiskQuota8 Message-ID: <00A0F03B.261DCFDE@SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>  = In article <bf1b7500.0206051444.4f631ebf@posting.google.com>, / zroundtree@oasys.com (Zoltan Roundtree) writes:   G >Is there a way to limit DISKQUOTA to a particular directory as apposed  >to using the entire disk?  N No, but you can obtain a similar effect by using a virtual disk of a specified9 size.  See the VD and LD drivers on the OpenVMS Freeware.    -- Alan     O =============================================================================== 0  Alan Winston --- WINSTON@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDUM  Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056 M  Physical mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 69, PO BOX 4349, STANFORD, CA  94309-0210 O ===============================================================================    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 05 Jun 2002 22:02:32 -0400 2 From: rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger) Subject: Re: DiskQuotaL Message-ID: <rdeininger-0506022202330001@11cust175.tnt2.nashua.nh.da.uu.net>  8 In article <00A0F03B.261DCFDE@SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>,% winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU wrote:   > >In article <bf1b7500.0206051444.4f631ebf@posting.google.com>,0 >zroundtree@oasys.com (Zoltan Roundtree) writes: > H >>Is there a way to limit DISKQUOTA to a particular directory as apposed >>to using the entire disk?  > O >No, but you can obtain a similar effect by using a virtual disk of a specified : >size.  See the VD and LD drivers on the OpenVMS Freeware.  F You might be able to do what you need with Identifiers, and set up theC directory so that the files are owned by a resource ID instead of a  username ID.  ! UAF> add/id/att=resource puppydog  UAF> grant/id puppydog system     $ SYSMAN> disk add /perm=1000 puppydog  ' $ set security/owner=puppydog login.com   D Set appropriate protections and ACLs on the directory (and the wholeE disk), so that the identifier is required to put files there, and the ! files are owned by the identifer.    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 05 Jun 2002 21:17:19 -0400 2 From: rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger) Subject: Re: dlt tape space L Message-ID: <rdeininger-0506022117190001@11cust175.tnt2.nashua.nh.da.uu.net>  < In article <3CFB880A.24BF1F9C@ceris.purdue.edu>, Chuck Aaron  <caaron@ceris.purdue.edu> wrote:  F >What is the command that will provide you the available space left on >any given DLT tape?  D The DLT drives I have used support raw SCSI commands that return the@ current location and the compression ratio (so far) on the tape.  4 AFAIK, VMS does not directly support these commands.   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 06 Jun 2002 01:31:29 GMT 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>  Subject: Re: dlt tape space ' Message-ID: <3CFEBF0E.EFD76F27@fsi.net>    Chuck Aaron wrote: > G > What is the command that will provide you the available space left on  > any given DLT tape?   G It occurs to me that DLT is not a "formatted" medium, like QIC. So, how H much tape remains would depend on how much is available at BOT, how manyD error spots lie in wait further on (impossible to predict), what theE record/block size of the next file written will be (more/fewer IRGs), 
 and so on.  D In short, that's likely too difficult to predict with any worthwhile degree of accuracy.    --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 05 Jun 2002 21:10:48 +0200  From: Dirk Munk <munk@home.nl>  Subject: Re: ES45 and VMS  7.2-1& Message-ID: <3CFE6238.5060102@home.nl>   Jesse Chambless wrote:@ > I would think that as long as you have the newest SRM softwareG > installed, VMS7.2-1 would work on the ES-45s.  We have ES-40s running G > V7.2-2.  Initially we boot the system on VMS 7.2-1 and then upgraded.  > D > Again, I think that having the latest console/SRM software updates > should enable it to work.    No, absolutely not. O It is true that when you have an Alpha system that is running an older version  P of VMS and has an older version of firmware loaded, you may have to upgrade the / firmware in oder to run a newer version of VMS. O But firmware is not a replacement for drivers ! If there is no suitable driver eP for a certain component (let's say a PCI chipset), then how should VMS use this 	 chipset ?iN You will find a minimal VMS version for every Alpha / Vax, independent of any  firmware versions.H In general you should always have the latest version of firmware loaded.       > N > Dirk Munk <munk@home.nl> wrote in message news:<3CFDABA6.5080506@home.nl>... > Q >>Very simple. VMS has to know all hardware components in a system. The ES45 has d6 >>hardware components that are not known to VMS 7.2-1. >>O >>So VMS 7.2-1 might not boot at all, or might not recognise importants system C) >>components, or might crash during boot.c >>O >>By the way, that is why there were H versions of certain VMS versions. The H sS >>stands for hardware, and these versions were meant to accomodate for new Alpha's uH >>that were produced after that particular version of VMS was published. >> >> >> >>Lyndon Bartels wrote:t >>" >>>Just a hypothetical question... >>>' >>>rG >>>My sources say that to run an ES45, I need VMS v7.3... Not a problemV< >>>there... I would never dream of recommending otherwise... >>>t >>>oI >>>But in case somebody asks, "what would happen if we tried to run it on  >>>v7.2-1?"  >>>o1 >>>So what would happen? Or what wouldn't happen?  >>>  >>>Thanks in advance,  >>>L	 >>>Lyndon  >>>  >>>L >>   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 05 Jun 2002 21:45:01 -0400o2 From: rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger)  Subject: Re: ES45 and VMS  7.2-1L Message-ID: <rdeininger-0506022145010001@11cust175.tnt2.nashua.nh.da.uu.net>  = In article <3CFD266F.34F1B8C8@pressenter.com>, Lyndon Bartelsn  <lbartels@pressenter.com> wrote:    >Just a hypothetical question... >L >eE >My sources say that to run an ES45, I need VMS v7.3... Not a problem : >there... I would never dream of recommending otherwise... >  > G >But in case somebody asks, "what would happen if we tried to run it ond
 >v7.2-1?"   . Does your pre-V7.3 system disk have the image 2    SYS$LOADABLE_IMAGES:SYS$CPU_ROUTINES_2608.EXE ?   I didn't think so. t   It won't boot an ES45.  Sorry.  C Any ES45 shipped with VMS has at least V7.3 plus the minimum set ofoG patches to run the platform.  So it should boot with the disk that cameA with it, no problems.e  J If you want to boot it as a satellite of another node, the boot node needsF to be running at least V7.3 to support the ES45, even if the boot nodeI itself doesn't need the new bits.  Sometimes it is necessary to run a new J system this way, though in the case of the ES45, you'll take a significant> performance hit for just about any boot system I can think of.  C The core chipset in the ES45 is new, and the support code was firstyE shipped in V7.3.  This isn't a minor cosmetic change.  It's major new1 stuff.   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 06 Jun 2002 02:50:34 GMTh- From: "John E. Malmberg" <wb8tyw@qsl.network>lJ Subject: FAQ and Freeware locations was - Re: OpenVMS FAQ due next week...* Message-ID: <3CFECAF0.6010201@qsl.network>  / %NEWS-F-RECURSION, Infinite recursion detected.b  G Consult http://www.openvms.compaq.com for links to both the FAQ and an  # online copy of the Freeware CD-ROM.I   -Johni wb8tyw@qsl.network Personal Opinion Onlyu   JF Mezei wrote:i > Mr Beermat wrote:  >   >>>The FAQ is on the FreewareCD. >>' >>How does one obtain the Freeware CDs?b >  o? > instructions on how to obtain the freeware CD are in the FAQ.a > :-)    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 05 Jun 2002 20:58:56 +0200i From: Dirk Munk <munk@home.nl>2 Subject: Re: For all you hobbyists: IDE on SCSI !!& Message-ID: <3CFE5F70.9040906@home.nl>   Paul Sture wrote:oI > In article <3CFD2506.5000908@home.nl>, Dirk Munk <munk@home.nl> writes:  >  >>Jonathan Boswell wrote:w >> >>>Dirk Munk wrote:  >>>  >>>tR >>>>This is a 80 GB Western Digital WD 800JB IDE disk connected to the SCSI bus ofT >>>>my PWS. I used a Acard AEC-7720UW SCSI-IDE bridge to connect it. It works great,@ >>>>and in total this is a lot cheaper then a 80 GB SCSI disk !! >>>m >>>oM >>>Very interesting.  What happens if you plug it into the PWS IDE controller * >>>directly, without the Acard in between? >>>e >>> - JB >>J >>I have a first generation PWS. Not even the CD-Rom is supported on IDE ! >>Q >>By the way, the performance of the disk is stunning. I did a anal /disk /read, uA >>and got 580 IO's/sec sustained, with peaks up to 650 IO's /sec.s >> >  > M > Now I'm _very_ interested. I am just doing an anal /disk /read on my systemaR > disk (PWS 600au, disk is COMPAQPC DDRS-39130D), and have a peak of 329 IOs/sec,  > 265/sec average.  Q The performance is easy to understand. It is a big disk (many sectors/track), it oK   runs quite fast (7200 rpm), and it has a huge read/write cache (8 MB !!, Q that's why I choose this disk).-P That means that most likely almost all read requests are serviced directly from  the cache of the disk.  M I had appr. the same results as you when I used a Seagate Barracuda IDE disk -D with the SCSI/IDE bridge, to test if the bridge would work with VMS.   Regards,   Dirk     >  > __ > Paul Sture
 > Switzerland-   ------------------------------   Date: 5 Jun 2002 22:12:39 GMTa2 From: "Zane H. Healy" <healyzh@shell1.aracnet.com>2 Subject: Re: For all you hobbyists: IDE on SCSI !!, Message-ID: <adm2cn11snq@enews2.newsguy.com>   Dirk Munk <munk@home.nl> wrote:mQ > This is a 80 GB Western Digital WD 800JB IDE disk connected to the SCSI bus of iS > my PWS. I used a Acard AEC-7720UW SCSI-IDE bridge to connect it. It works great, t> > and in total this is a lot cheaper then a 80 GB SCSI disk !!  # > You can find more information at:o > http://www.acard.com  ( > I'll be happy to answer any questions.  L Out of curiousity how long have you been running this?  This is exactly the I kind of thing I could use.  Right now I'm running with a 9GB system disksMK and 3 4GB drives in a BA350.  Any idea's if it would have any problems with L volume shadowing?  With a disk that size, I'd just as soon have it shadowed.   			Zane    ------------------------------   Date: 5 Jun 2002 22:10 CDT' From: carl@gerg.tamu.edu (Carl Perkins)o2 Subject: Re: For all you hobbyists: IDE on SCSI !!, Message-ID: <5JUN200222100305@gerg.tamu.edu>  - p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture) writes... H }In article <3CFD2506.5000908@home.nl>, Dirk Munk <munk@home.nl> writes: }> Jonathan Boswell wrote: }>> Dirk Munk wrote: }>> R }>>>This is a 80 GB Western Digital WD 800JB IDE disk connected to the SCSI bus ofT }>>>my PWS. I used a Acard AEC-7720UW SCSI-IDE bridge to connect it. It works great,@ }>>>and in total this is a lot cheaper then a 80 GB SCSI disk !! }>> N }>> Very interesting.  What happens if you plug it into the PWS IDE controller+ }>> directly, without the Acard in between?o }>> 	 }>>  - JBh }> DK }> I have a first generation PWS. Not even the CD-Rom is supported on IDE !  }> eR }> By the way, the performance of the disk is stunning. I did a anal /disk /read, B }> and got 580 IO's/sec sustained, with peaks up to 650 IO's /sec. }> oL }Now I'm _very_ interested. I am just doing an anal /disk /read on my systemQ }disk (PWS 600au, disk is COMPAQPC DDRS-39130D), and have a peak of 329 IOs/sec, e }265/sec average.  }  }__. }Paul Sturen }Switzerland  I On an XP900 with a Seagate ST336705LW disk (also known as a Cheetah 36XL, L it is a 36GB, 10000rpm, 5.2ms average seek drive on an Ultra2 LVD interface,F although the drive itself can handle Ultra160), the same test gives me@ an average of around 550 IO/sec and peaks up to as high as 1345.  G Disks are quite speedy these days. You can get disks that are noticablyn: faster than this one (although it is certainly no slouch).   --- Carl   ------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2002 20:21:28 -0400  From: John Santos <JOHN@egh.com>6 Subject: Re: has anyone ported this opensource to VMS?5 Message-ID: <1020605201647.1319A-100000@Ives.egh.com>   ' On Mon, 3 Jun 2002, David Mathog wrote:-   > Mark Berryman wrote: > > H > > Open3D provides pretty good OpenGL support (all the OpenGL I've everI > > tried to use, anyway).  Also, the MESA library runs just fine on VMS.-E > > So, yes, there is good OpenGL support for Alpha VMS workstations.n > H > Unless you need stereo 3D support as well.  Are there any VMS graphics@ > cards now that support stereo?  For that matter, are there any > on Tru64?s > 
 > Regards, >  > David Mathog > mathog@caltech.edu  ? I remember a demo of a Mars rover at DECUS many years ago.  Youo? wore a pair of stereo glasses (one little monitor for each eye,s; not the Red & Green lens kind), and drove around on "Mars".   = I'm pretty sure it was an Alpha, but don't remember what O/S.a Probably DEC Unix.  ; This was definitely before Sojourner landed there.  I think-/ the "Martian" surface was made up for the demo.r   -- i John Santost Evans Griffiths & Hart, Inc. 781-861-0670 ext 539   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 05 Jun 2002 15:28:36 -0500t( From: David Harrold <DHarrold@wi.rr.com>$ Subject: Help tuning NISCS_MAX_PKTSZ2 Message-ID: <adls9k$cbj$1@newsreader.mailgate.org>  D I am looking for some more information on tuning the NISCS_MAX_PKTSZ
 parameter.  L Our application vendor is suggesting that we set it to 1498 because our onlyD cluster NI interconnect is 10/100 Ethernet.  But reading the articleM "[OpenVMS] A Discussion Of How VMScluster Members Communicate" in DSNLink, itRH appears to me that leaving NISCS_MAX_PKTSZ at the default (8192) is fineK and the cluster communication subsystem will only send packets of 1498 overr the Ethernet links..  K Our contact at the vender suggests that a lock remaster (for instance) will0L generate 8192 byte packets which must be broken up into 1498 byte packets toL send across the Ethernet connection.  If this is true, I agree that changingK NISCS_MAX_PKTSZ would be a good thing, but the article above seems to statec that this is not the case.  L Any further information or documents or pointers to manuals would be greatly appreciated.   Thanks,p   Dave Harrold    N ..............................................................................N David Harrold                              E-Mail: David_Harrold at aurora.orgI Sr. Software Systems Engineer              Phone:          (414) 647-6204 I                                            Pager:          (414) 941-4634 G Aurora Health Care                         Fax:          (414) 647-4999i 3031 W. Montana Street Milwaukee, WI 53215y   ------------------------------   Date: 5 Jun 2002 13:03:43 -0700e( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)' Subject: Re: Inquirer says Alpha lives?.= Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0206051203.52f4820e@posting.google.com>y   Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <andrew_nospam.harrison_remove_this@sun#.com> wrote in message news:<adl0al$gls$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>...2 > Bob Ceculski wrote:d > v > > "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote in message news:<OlcJ8.69311$Gs.6423217@bin5.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>... > >  > 4 > I am at a loss to understand why you think this is > good news. > 6 > You are an OpenVMS advocate, OpenVMS is being ported > to IA-64 as we speak.  > 7 > OpenVMS is owned by HP who have sunk huge ammounts ofo7 > cash into IA-64. Their whole high end server strategyh6 > is based on migrating from HP-PA based HP-UX systems4 > and Alpha Tru64/OpenVMS to a commonish IA-64 based > platform.  > 5 > If IA-64 does not deliver and Intel has to fold ando6 > go with an x86-64 processor then HP is up S**T creek > without a paddle.: > 7 > No easyish transition from HP-PA/HP-UX to IA-64/HP-UX 3 > no IA-64/OpenVMS etc. Instead HP will be in for a44 > new and very unexpected and panic R&D expenditure. > 8 > Guess what happens then, things get cut, anything that4 > looks periperal to HP's core strategy would go, do > you want this for OpenVMS ?M > 6 > At this point the last thing you want is a change of9 > strategy at Intel, it could spell dissaster for OpenVMS0 > .3 > 	 > Regards0 > Andrew Harrison>  = Why?  If Itanium/EPIC bombs, you use instead EV8 with Itanium ; label, and VMS is happy, and Windoze 2000 64 is happy as wer: know it exists in development, even Windoze 2000 32 exists; before Q and Micro$ofts squabble/killing it ... as for hpuxs9 and tru64, tru64 is happy on Itanium EV8, and hpux can be 9 blended w/tru64 and an emulator developed for hpux to runA; on EV8 ... everyone is happy, and in reality, this would be=9 best as EPIC is garbage compared to RISC EV8/EV9 designs.L Either way, VMS is a winner!   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 05 Jun 2002 22:04:47 +0200i- From: Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@Free.fr>S? Subject: Re: It works by itself since ages, why would I change?=' Message-ID: <3CFE6EDE.76540DF7@Free.fr>    Bob Ceculski wrote:- > N > why try to do it the charlatan way like Bill Gates and the unix/linux crowd?  ) BECAUSE THE FIELD DOES NOT KNOW ABOUT IT!e   no other reason.   D. -- 22   ------------------------------------------------2 MORANDI Consultants  http://Didier.Morandi.Free.fr0   19 chemin de la Butte, 31400 Toulouse, France.2 Tel.: +33 (0)6 7983 6418 - Fax: +33 (0)5 6154 19282 OpenVMS, APPLE, Computer Security, Migration plans2 --------------------------------------------------   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 06 Jun 2002 02:30:34 GMTu From: "McEagle" <spam@spam.com>s? Subject: Re: It works by itself since ages, why would I change?v= Message-ID: <ePzL8.84471$ec1.1765928@twister.tampabay.rr.com>u  J We've got dozens of Alphas, and continue to buy more, yet we also have tenG Vaxen, all production systems, from the 1989-93 era.  Took them off allpF maintenance following the Y2K event.  VMS flavors from 5.5-2 thru 7.2.@ Another department has three Microvax 3100-20s (online, standby,K development) running a 24x7 application that has 600,000 lines of MACRO andtK C and a long-unsupported Oracle version.  Over the last five years two codeeD rewrites and migration to a Windows platforms were started and laterJ abandoned.   The programmers in this department come and go, but the Vaxen go on forever!   Mike  : "Didier Morandi" <Didier.Morandi@Free.fr> wrote in message! news:3CFD3074.6AA62B61@Free.fr...B* > There is a factory which produces goods.8 > They started around 1975 with a PDP 11/23 and RSX-11M.L > Then, they bought one of the first 11/750 available in France and moved to VMS.L > Today, they have a cluster of two 4400 running 5.5-2H4, since ten years or so.t > They do no new developments.I > They have no more software maintenance contracts ("the system is up and- running-: > since many years without reboot, why would I upgrade?").I > They plan to buy spare parts here and there when their 4400 are no more 
 supported.H > They will wonder about migration only when their production system may have% > risks to take them out of business.c >e > Question: B > How many existing VMS Customers can recognize themselves in this description today? >  > D. > --4 >   ------------------------------------------------4 > MORANDI Consultants  http://Didier.Morandi.Free.fr2 >   19 chemin de la Butte, 31400 Toulouse, France.4 > Tel.: +33 (0)6 7983 6418 - Fax: +33 (0)5 6154 19284 > OpenVMS, APPLE, Computer Security, Migration plans4 > -------------------------------------------------- >    ------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2002 16:30:13 -04000 From: "Syltrem" <syltremspammenot@videotron.com>, Subject: Re: IT world becoming like lawyers?4 Message-ID: <_wuL8.2527$H67.13652@tor-nn1.netcom.ca>   I agree 500%I People do what other people do, or what others tell them to do. Or do the & thing that is the quickest an easiest.I Windoze and peecees are sold at Costco etc. Easier to buy that than orderoE from dec/compaq/hp. The software is found in the same store, too. Andw0 there's windoze programmers everywhere you look., That's the easy quick way. Not the good way. --   SyltremtI http://pages.infinit.net/syltrem (OpenVMS related web site - en franais)r> To reply to myself directly, remove .spammenot from my address  E "Bob Ceculski" <bob@instantwhip.com> a crit dans le message de news:e2 d7791aa1.0206050803.406f0f86@posting.google.com...> > how could any IT/management/CEO person fall for the lies and: > deception of the windoze/unix/linux world ... they buy a= > lousy product with no security, and lots of bugs to fix ... : > this is all couterproductive to their business, spending; > all that money buying 80,000 windoze boxes or 80,000 chipo9 > sparc boxes, paying IT people big money to spend 80% of ; > their time patching ... paying tons of money for securityB= > products that on VMS would be unnecessary ... having to runh9 > 80,000 servers instead of a single Alpha VMS cluster orc< > Galaxy ... disaster solutions when a simple vms cluster in9 > two different locations would work the best ... it justy; > boggles the mind how stupid people are actually becoming!t   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 05 Jun 2002 16:52:32 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>m, Subject: Re: LBR$ (library) condition values, Message-ID: <3CFE7A0E.B4F3C718@videotron.ca>   mckinneyj@cpva.saic.com wrote:$ > You could use SDA to create one... >  > $ ANALYZE/SYSTEM/ > SDA> READ/IMAGE SYS$COMMON:[SYSLIB]LBRSHR.EXE4F > %SDA-I-READSYM, 78 symbols read from SYS$COMMON:[SYSLIB]LBRSHR.EXE;3 > SDA> SET OUTPUT LBRMSGDEF.LIS  > SDA> SHOW SYMBOL/ALL LBR$_ > SDA> EXITo >  > You'll see records similar to  > I > LBR$_ILLIDXNUM                  = 00000000.00269022 : 4D414E47.4D495F54>    K Thanks. Altbough on VAX, the /IMAGE qualified for READ is not accepted, and-J the output when sent to a file is quite different, I can use TPU to do its* magic and transform into something I need.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 05 Jun 2002 18:56:23 +0200h2 From: martin@radiogaga.harz.de (Martin Vorlaender); Subject: Re: Linux gains acceptance at expense of Microsoftt; Message-ID: <3cfe42b7.524144494f47414741@radiogaga.harz.de>a  * Paul Sture (p_sture@elias.decus.ch) wrote:1 > JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> writes:eA > > Linux comes bare bones and you add/enable what you need/want.  >pI > Not quite correct. Unless you go for a minimum installation, the ones IhG > have seen will install a whole load of stuff you didn't ask for. WithiB > default username/password combinations and potential privileges.  M They're learning (slowly): In the current SuSE distribution, the telnet and RrG services are disabled by default. The manual advises people to use SSH.   M > > Does a web server on linux require all mighty privileges to run ? If not, G > > then when it gets some buffer overflow, it will affect only its ownd > > process.  O For various useful things, you have to use some 'su' tool to enable privileges.e2 That's the problem with *ix - it's all or nothing.  G > > A big problem with Microsoft is that it likes to require all mightytK > > provileges for its software because the sofware and OS are not designedi0 > > to allow such software to run without privs. >.L > One which came up a year or two ago was the need for local Admin rights toK > run the debugger on NT. Sheesh, but if you think about the words PersonaliJ > Computer, it's _your_ box, to do with what you like? Not a good security > model.  @ ...at least not for a system that wants to run the datacenter...   cu,o   Martin -- oF                           | Martin Vorlaender  |  VMS & WNT programmer3  Cetero censeo            | work: mv@pdv-systeme.delF  Redmondem delendam esse. |   http://www.pdv-systeme.de/users/martinv/:                           | home: martin@radiogaga.harz.de   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 05 Jun 2002 18:35:30 +0100 U From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <andrew_nospam.harrison_remove_this@sun#.com>k/ Subject: Re: Mark Gorham's Beer Bash in Readingb0 Message-ID: <adlikl$ls0$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   John Smith wrote:S   > Even Andrew gets it..... > J > Sometimes you do not what's best for your customer, but that which hurts > your competitor most.u >     9 Well you have to offer something to your customer that isB/ good for them in order to hurt your competitor.S  6 Take the case of StarOffice, if it was free but didn't7 compete functionally with MS-Office then cheap might bet? good as far as the customer is concerned but poor functionalityh would remove it from the game.  ; So StarOffice value to customers is that it's as functional 7 as MS-Office and way cheaper. It uses standard documente> formats based arround XML but it will read and write MS-OfficeA formats as well. This removes you from the escalating file-format $ based upgrades foisted on customers.  : Typically in a big customer one group upgrades to the next9 version of Office, starts sending round attachments basedk7 on that version, everyone else then has to follow on bya upgrading as well.  : This is the almost anuity based business that MS gets from< the Office suite they produce. New version everyone upgrades= wait 12-18 months release the next version, everyone upgradest and so it goes on.  9 Its enormously profitable for MS but to have an impact onsC those revenues StarOffice has to compete in terms of functionality.h    N > Trouble is, Digital, Compaq, and now seemingly HP are doing what helps theirN > competitors most, while at the same time as hurting their own customers most > too. > I > Such is the value of an MBA these days. In Compaq/HP's case it truly is2 > MBA - Management By Accident.a >  > % > "Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy"F@ > <andrew_nospam.harrison_remove_this@sun#.com> wrote in message, > news:adlcdr$k3a$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com... >  >> >>Alan Greig wrote:t >> >>I >>>On Fri, 31 May 2002 12:47:41 +0100, Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1>a	 >>>wrote:U >>>I >>>b >>>  >>>nG >>>>>Nobody seems to get the irony of talking about VMS with powerpoint0 >>>>>slides. >>>>>  >>>>> * >>>>You've not seen my acetate which says: >>>>6 >>>>"Exception in OHP, click to terminate" have you ?! >>>> >>>>F >>>I did say (loudly enough for Mark to hear I think), "Now if only itI >>>was Star Office under VMS". Or probably Open Office unless Sun could evH >>>persuaded to support the port themselves. Maybe that's what Andrew is >>>really doing :-)t >>>i >>>' >>B >>It is highly unlikely that Sun would directly support an OpenVMS5 >>distribution of StarOffice 6. That would be for HP.a >>= >>OpenVMS is not a volume desktop OS and nothing like SunRaysS= >>exist in the OpenVMS space to provide server based desktops@. >>so it would be an unlikely candidate for us. >>B >>Solaris, Linux, Win32 with the last 2 being the target platforms >>to hit MS where it hurts.k >>	 >>Regards> >>Andrew Harrison0 >> >> >> >> >> >  >    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 06 Jun 2002 00:17:47 GMT2. From: peter@langstoeger.at (Peter LANGSTOEGER)' Subject: Re: Newsreader for OpenVMS 7.2r5 Message-ID: <LSxL8.125583$305.1640999@news.chello.at>   e In article <2I2L8.20$xB2.55@news-srv1.fmr.com>, sy18889@rabbit.fmr.com (Bradford J. Hamilton) writes:>3 >I use NEWSRDR, found on the Freeware V4 CD, or at:S  ' Me too. But I've also a warning for you   H NEWSRDR does not support XOVER. It also handles postings via the articleE numbers and not via the Msg-IDs. Many NNTPSERVERs out there are silly H enough to renumber the postings at random times so that you then may getF already read postings as new or unread postings as read (maybe I run a9 NNTPSERVER myself to avoid this - I'm sick of this crap)._  E NEWSRDR has also a problem with the NEWSRC (if you choose to use it).iE Reading threadwise marks some articles read, leaving big holes in thegJ numbers list. Writing the NEWSRC file does work (making really big lines -G you know, one line per newsgroup), reading it afterwards doesn't always  (because lines are too long).   E Workaround is to not use NEWSRC or not use READ/THREAD or not let the 2 list of unseen postings grow beyond low hundreds).< But no such problems with the native NEWSRDR_PROFILE.NRPF...  G NEWSRDR does also not cache article headers so that a READ/THREAD scansRI through all the article headers on the server AGAIN and AGAIN. NNTPSERVER1K admins do not like this (cause of server performance and access statistics)k: and YOU also won't like this (it could get REALLY boring).   -Peter  > PS: Consider NETSCAPE/MOZILLA/CSWB, LYNX, MXRN, SLRN, ... too. -- l Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGERS% Network and OpenVMS system specialistu E-mail  peter@langstoeger.atP A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm looking for (a) Network _and_ VMS Job(s)   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 06 Jun 2002 00:50:32 GMTT3 From: sy18889@rabbit.fmr.com (Bradford J. Hamilton)c' Subject: Re: Newsreader for OpenVMS 7.2 / Message-ID: <slyL8.23$xB2.57@news-srv1.fmr.com>   	 Hi Peter,s  M Thanks for the response - I'm going to ask questions/make comments throughout 
 this post.  f In article <LSxL8.125583$305.1640999@news.chello.at>, peter@langstoeger.at (Peter LANGSTOEGER) writes:f >In article <2I2L8.20$xB2.55@news-srv1.fmr.com>, sy18889@rabbit.fmr.com (Bradford J. Hamilton) writes:4 >>I use NEWSRDR, found on the Freeware V4 CD, or at: >-( >Me too. But I've also a warning for you >-I >NEWSRDR does not support XOVER. It also handles postings via the articleiF >numbers and not via the Msg-IDs. Many NNTPSERVERs out there are sillyI >enough to renumber the postings at random times so that you then may getiG >already read postings as new or unread postings as read (maybe I run ag: >NNTPSERVER myself to avoid this - I'm sick of this crap).  3 Forgive my asking a silly question - what is XOVER?p  9 I've noticed some of the symptoms you've mentioned above.    >nF >NEWSRDR has also a problem with the NEWSRC (if you choose to use it).F >Reading threadwise marks some articles read, leaving big holes in theK >numbers list. Writing the NEWSRC file does work (making really big lines -aH >you know, one line per newsgroup), reading it afterwards doesn't always >(because lines are too long). >kF >Workaround is to not use NEWSRC or not use READ/THREAD or not let the3 >list of unseen postings grow beyond low hundreds).b= >But no such problems with the native NEWSRDR_PROFILE.NRPF....  B I don't use the NEWSRC now, but I noticed problems when I used it.( I'll have to investigate using the .NPRF   >rH >NEWSRDR does also not cache article headers so that a READ/THREAD scansJ >through all the article headers on the server AGAIN and AGAIN. NNTPSERVERL >admins do not like this (cause of server performance and access statistics); >and YOU also won't like this (it could get REALLY boring).P   Thanks for the warning.3   >u >-Petert >a? >PS: Consider NETSCAPE/MOZILLA/CSWB, LYNX, MXRN, SLRN, ... too.   L I wish to use only a "character cell" interface, for reasons of security andO bandwidth - can you or others recommend a newsreader with those charateristics?:   >--  >Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER& >Network and OpenVMS system specialist >E-mail  peter@langstoeger.atiQ >A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm looking for (a) Network _and_ VMS Job(s)e   Bradford J. Hamilton& braMdhamAilPtoSn@aMtAtPbi.cSom		(home)& sMy1A88P89S@rabMbit.fAmPr.coSm		(work)  ; "All opinions that I express are my own, not my employer's". "Lose the MAPS"s   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 05 Jun 2002 18:16:30 GMT # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>S Subject: Re: Open Letter to HPJ Message-ID: <2AsL8.218162$t8_.119990@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>   You don't get it do you?  H Look at any set of major/middling/minor corporations you care to choose.  J The guys who authorize the signing of the checks for the hardware/softwareK purchases of any substantial size generally aren't the CIO/CTO/IS managers.   L That privilege is reserved to the CEO/CFO/COO who does that. The COO/CEO/CFO1 reads the Wall Street Journal, not ComputerWorld.P  E Yes, you have to reach the technologists, but unless you convince theyG CEO/CFO/COO's of the world that VMS is better and here to stay, then noiK amount of advertising in Computerworld is going to change anything in VMS's  favor one iota.i      8 "Rob Young" <young_r@encompasserve.org> wrote in message- news:Xf09PXlZ1HbP@eisner.encompasserve.org...lK > In article <y7rL8.217988$t8_.89278@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>,f% "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> writes:8 > > Rob, > > < > > It does not have to be on TV to get the message through. > >iH > > But OpenVMS advertising has to be done in the medium that executives read.a@ > > ComputerWorld, et al., reaches technologists and some CIO's. > >E >  > Yes. >n > L http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=twh%248ayzC36U%40eisner.encompasserve.o rg&output=gplain >r- > From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young)  > Newsgroups: comp.os.vmss  > Subject: Re: Open Letter to HP" > Date: 31 May 2002 21:26:35 -0600 >  > [snip] > E > > : I agree with much of what you say, but I do believe advertisingSG > > : should be targetted.  It is for other similar high-end OSes, i.e.gE > > : AS/400, mainframes and NSK and when was the last time you saw arH > > : Rolls-Royce, Lamborghini, etc. commercial on television?  They run/ > > : ads in targetted publications - I assume.o >r > [snip] > > D > > VMS could stand exposure to a general public who thinks that all	 computingt8 > > is done on Microsoft/Intel-or-AMD and Apple systems. > >o >, > It would be a waste of money.8 >F6 > http://www.computerworld.com/services/mediakit/rates >MF > $21000 an ad page for black and white in ComputerWorld.  A whole lot8 > more of them than 1 minute of network commercial time. >3 > ---- >m > Robg >    ------------------------------   Date: 5 Jun 2002 13:34:05 -0600l+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young)6 Subject: Re: Open Letter to HP3 Message-ID: <a$lx3VTPveb+@eisner.encompasserve.org>e  p In article <2AsL8.218162$t8_.119990@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>, "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> writes: > You don't get it do you? > J > Look at any set of major/middling/minor corporations you care to choose. > L > The guys who authorize the signing of the checks for the hardware/softwareM > purchases of any substantial size generally aren't the CIO/CTO/IS managers.c > N > That privilege is reserved to the CEO/CFO/COO who does that. The COO/CEO/CFO3 > reads the Wall Street Journal, not ComputerWorld.b > G > Yes, you have to reach the technologists, but unless you convince the.I > CEO/CFO/COO's of the world that VMS is better and here to stay, then nooM > amount of advertising in Computerworld is going to change anything in VMS's1 > favor one iota.u >   B 	Right.  So not only advertize in ComputerWorld but also advertize? 	in CIO Magazine and Forbes.  Certainly not network television.r   				Rob    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 05 Jun 2002 11:43:35 -0700n0 From: Mark Berryman <Mark.Berryman@Mvb.Saic.Com> Subject: Re: Open Letter to HP, Message-ID: <3CFDF967.17291AF8@Mvb.Saic.Com>   Peter LANGSTOEGER wrote: > a > In article <adh4qr$bqo$6@web1.cup.hp.com>, hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) writes:mp > >In article <9059bf6b.0205310725.73d173d4@posting.google.com>, jodonnell@hrblock.com (Jason O'Donnell) writes:> > >:2. Major network television commercials promoting OpenVMS. > >- > >  Not gonna happen. > E > Bingo. So, OpenVMS will continue to seem a dead product in the head 5 > of the crowd and almost-all/the-uninformed CEO/CIO.  > K > btw, Hoff, are you in marketing now ? Or else, how do you know for sure ?,  G I'm acquainted with a few CEO/CIO types.  Not one of them gets their IT G information from TV.  TV would be a huge waste of money to talk about a F particular operating system.  Advertising in trade rags would be a big boost, however.y  
 Mark Berryman    ------------------------------   Date: 5 Jun 2002 13:33:28 -0700h( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski) Subject: Re: Open Letter to HP= Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0206051233.2516dc11@posting.google.com>o  k peter@langstoeger.at (Peter LANGSTOEGER) wrote in message news:<gIpL8.118574$305.1530044@news.chello.at>...wa > In article <adh4qr$bqo$6@web1.cup.hp.com>, hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) writes:-p > >In article <9059bf6b.0205310725.73d173d4@posting.google.com>, jodonnell@hrblock.com (Jason O'Donnell) writes:> > >:2. Major network television commercials promoting OpenVMS. > >w > >  Not gonna happen. > E > Bingo. So, OpenVMS will continue to seem a dead product in the heado5 > of the crowd and almost-all/the-uninformed CEO/CIO.a > K > btw, Hoff, are you in marketing now ? Or else, how do you know for sure ?i  C I have never seen and IBM OS400 commercial ... TV is irrelevant ...c   ------------------------------   Date: 5 Jun 2002 13:33:29 -0700o( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski) Subject: Re: Open Letter to HP< Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0206051233.9b2cd90@posting.google.com>  k peter@langstoeger.at (Peter LANGSTOEGER) wrote in message news:<gIpL8.118574$305.1530044@news.chello.at>...ea > In article <adh4qr$bqo$6@web1.cup.hp.com>, hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) writes:np > >In article <9059bf6b.0205310725.73d173d4@posting.google.com>, jodonnell@hrblock.com (Jason O'Donnell) writes:> > >:2. Major network television commercials promoting OpenVMS. > >  > >  Not gonna happen. > E > Bingo. So, OpenVMS will continue to seem a dead product in the headg5 > of the crowd and almost-all/the-uninformed CEO/CIO.a > K > btw, Hoff, are you in marketing now ? Or else, how do you know for sure ?   B I have never seen an IBM OS400 commercial ... TV is irrelevant ...   ------------------------------   Date: 5 Jun 2002 13:34:40 -0700B( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski) Subject: Re: Open Letter to HP= Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0206051234.16b6f939@posting.google.com>0  k peter@langstoeger.at (Peter LANGSTOEGER) wrote in message news:<gIpL8.118574$305.1530044@news.chello.at>...da > In article <adh4qr$bqo$6@web1.cup.hp.com>, hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) writes:fp > >In article <9059bf6b.0205310725.73d173d4@posting.google.com>, jodonnell@hrblock.com (Jason O'Donnell) writes:> > >:2. Major network television commercials promoting OpenVMS. > >c > >  Not gonna happen. > E > Bingo. So, OpenVMS will continue to seem a dead product in the heada5 > of the crowd and almost-all/the-uninformed CEO/CIO.f > K > btw, Hoff, are you in marketing now ? Or else, how do you know for sure ?l  B I have never seen an IBM OS400 commercial ... TV is irrelevant ...   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 05 Jun 2002 16:57:49 -0400s- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>a Subject: Re: Open Letter to HP, Message-ID: <3CFE7B4B.13140401@videotron.ca>   Rob Young wrote:I >         Where are the OS/400 commercials?  Where are the MVS aka OS/390aE >         commercials?  Where are the NSK commercials?   , etc., etc.i  I For a while, Compaq had huge billboards in montreal touting its "NonStop" G systems running stock exchanges. Sounds to me like they had no problemsl0 advertising Tandem stuff, but nothing about VMS.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 05 Jun 2002 17:07:40 -0400i- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>q Subject: Re: Open Letter to HP, Message-ID: <3CFE7D9A.949690BE@videotron.ca>   Rob Young wrote:K >         Right.  So not only advertize in ComputerWorld but also advertizerH >         in CIO Magazine and Forbes.  Certainly not network television.  N Why not network television ? I am not saying advertise during Sex in the City.L But advertising in CNN Moneyline, or other business programs would go a longJ way. Heck, even sponsoring a PBS program with the sponsorship text clearlyM stating that it is being sponsored by VMS, an HP product would go a long way.e  D VMS needs very public exposure in order to make it cool enough to beN considered, so even advertising VMS during a football game might be very good.N You have to tell EVERYONE that VMS is a viable competitor and that they should1 consider it when they need any type of computing.s  M Advertising "widely" has the same effect as putting VMS boxes in schools. YousL sew the seeds to as many people as possible who will later think of vMS when they need a solution.v   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 05 Jun 2002 17:11:04 -0400t- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>o Subject: Re: Open Letter to HP, Message-ID: <3CFE7E65.B63E8F27@videotron.ca>   Mark Berryman wrote:I > I'm acquainted with a few CEO/CIO types.  Not one of them gets their ITnI > information from TV.  TV would be a huge waste of money to talk about asH > particular operating system.  Advertising in trade rags would be a big > boost, however.O  L Imagine, if during the time RedHat was able to get the media's attention andM show that there were alternatives to Windows. Imagine if Compaq had then comewJ out and advertised VMS as a fully supported alternmative to Windows ? TheyH would have caught the attention of the people, but more importantly, theI attention of the media who would have then investigated what that new VMStQ product they had never heard of before and try to get interviews with Compaq etc.n  M The media may have then labeled VMS as the serious alternative to Windows andiH shown how windows wasn't even close to being good enough for enterprise.   ------------------------------   Date: 5 Jun 2002 14:15:54 -0700 . From: spamsink2001@yahoo.com (Alan E. Feldman) Subject: Re: Open Letter to HP= Message-ID: <b096a4ee.0206051315.6047e508@posting.google.com>   _ "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote in message news:<3CFC370D.89D2C72@fsi.net>...s > Hoff Hoffman wrote:i
 > > [snip] > >   And please contact > >   your Ambassador, Rep,s > # > Been there, done that. No schmae.     A I thought I already posted this but it's been long enough to haveu9 shown up by now, so please excuse me if this is a repeat.r     OK, what is "schmae"? Thanks.@     Disclaimer: JMHO Alan E. Feldmann" afeldman atski gfigroup dotski com   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 05 Jun 2002 21:15:07 GMTU# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>  Subject: Re: Open Letter to HPH Message-ID: <vbvL8.222147$t8_.4128@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>  L So we are agreed now. But you should also see JF's post right after yours. I agree with him too.>  I Any psychologist worth anything will tell you that audio-visual cues helpwK stimulate the brain to remember propositions. You didn't even have to *see*rG the Intel Blue Man commercials more than once before you recognized theaL 3-note 'signature'. You could have been in the kitchen fishing a beer out ofL the fridge at half-time and heard them from the television. Your brain wouldL have told you..'There's another Intel Pentium III commercial'. VMS needs the same kind of 'hook'.  I That said, there are certain key television programs in each country that.# are seen by the people that matter.e   Those programs are:t7 - the nightly business reports and commentary shows.... G - political commentary shows (remember that lots of CEO's contribute to-E political parties and are keenly aware of the political circus), .....F - and certain television programs of general interest - perhaps NOVA &G National Geographic, Wimbledon/US Open tennis, Masters golf, etc... andx. equivalent types of programs in other markets.    8 "Rob Young" <young_r@encompasserve.org> wrote in message- news:a$lx3VTPveb+@eisner.encompasserve.org...sL > In article <2AsL8.218162$t8_.119990@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>,% "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> writes:  > > You don't get it do you? > >hL > > Look at any set of major/middling/minor corporations you care to choose. > >y< > > The guys who authorize the signing of the checks for the hardware/softwarePE > > purchases of any substantial size generally aren't the CIO/CTO/ISl	 managers.m > > D > > That privilege is reserved to the CEO/CFO/COO who does that. The COO/CEO/CFO,5 > > reads the Wall Street Journal, not ComputerWorld.E > >fI > > Yes, you have to reach the technologists, but unless you convince the,K > > CEO/CFO/COO's of the world that VMS is better and here to stay, then nokI > > amount of advertising in Computerworld is going to change anything in  VMS'sp > > favor one iota.o > >d >sC > Right.  So not only advertize in ComputerWorld but also advertizeE@ > in CIO Magazine and Forbes.  Certainly not network television. >R > Robg >l   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 05 Jun 2002 22:31:21 GMTd* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> Subject: Re: Open Letter to HPB Message-ID: <ZiwL8.119956$%y.12766746@bin4.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>  . "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> wrote in messageC news:y7rL8.217988$t8_.89278@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com...t > Rob, >s: > It does not have to be on TV to get the message through. > L > But OpenVMS advertising has to be done in the medium that executives read.> > ComputerWorld, et al., reaches technologists and some CIO's. >tK > The Wall Street Journal reaches the guys who give the CIO's permission toeJ > write the cheques, ie. the senior managment and the members of the Board of
 > Directors..o > J > I don't know of one CIO that has permission from the Board to run 'wild' and3H > do what he wants without first getting approval from the board. If theJ > Board/senior execs know about VMS, then they will ask about it sooner orE > later, especially if the ads that are done promoting it discuss thee virtuesrG > of it in an objective manner. Some (not all) Board members and senior  execs * > have brains and do think for themselves.  E But I dare say that damn few of them have a clue about making good OSl choices.  I Unfortunately, this may be true even at the CIO level (wasn't Curly a CIOyI somewhere?).  One of the reasons American industry is in increasing perilEG from foreign competition is its management incompetence at listening toi. lower-level people with specialized knowledge.  I Curly didn't know squat about VMS even though it was his job to (since heeI owned it and his company benefited significantly from it).  The entire HPeL board (less Walter) didn't know squat about the relative desirability of theK merger, for God's sake:  they just followed Carly like good little lambs to J HP's slaughter, and didn't even have the grace to blush when it turned outK she had been misleading them about the projected merged performance as muchf( as she had been misleading stockholders.  J If a CIO goes to his/her CEO and/or BoD with an OS recommendation and getsI anything but "OK", "We can't afford to do that right now", or "Is there avG less immediately expensive course we could take?", s/he should look foreF another job, since s/he clearly isn't trusted to do the current one byL people who know far less about it than s/he does.  The same applies at leastB one more level down from the CIO:  unless the company has mandatedH standardization on a single OS - which of course raises other questions,J division-level IT managers should have a better understanding of what theyI need than the corporate CIO does, and in a sufficiently large corporationa5 this may extend down to the department level as well.   J Get medium-level IT people interested in VMS and they'll promote it withinK their own organizations sufficiently to get it used (after all, this is the K only reason it's still around at all).  Show a significant bump in customeriK interest, and you'll at least get some mention in a few of the rags read by	K higher-ups, which is arguably better than an occasional ad.  Support NBR on K PBS (as DEC used to) and you'll at least be on a CEO's radar screen (again,3I arguably better than ads:  aren't CEOs just as used to discounting ads asP the rest of us?).8  L Setting the bar at a height HP won't even try to clear is not the way to getL VMS turned around.  As I said in response to Nic, widespread VMS advertisingL within the computer media would be one hell of a lot more than has been seenF for about a decade, and would certainly make *me* consider revising myL opinion of HP's interest in the platform (and if I'm not a tough audience, IK don't know who is).  Note that I'm not saying I believe this alone would bevI effective:  the Alphacide dealt VMS a blow it will find very difficult tofJ recover from, but a combination of good marketing and inspired developmentF direction - plus the emergence of Itanic as a viable platform, even ifL notably inferior to what Alpha would have been - could do the trick.  *Then*H there'll be something real to advertise to CEOs (including, perhaps mostK significantly, proof of HP's real - financial - long-term commitment to thet+ platform), and plenty of income to fund it.    - bill   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 06 Jun 2002 00:18:07 GMTo# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>d Subject: Re: Open Letter to HPI Message-ID: <3TxL8.224560$t8_.78291@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>p  " It's got to be done at all levels.  F The text may be different depending on who the ad is directed at, tech@ weenie, IT honcho, CFO/CEO...but the message will be the same...  L "Smart businesses make smart decisions and execute them with the best in the@ business. Get smart, get OpenVMS - it's good for your business."* (c) 2002, John Smith. All rights reserved.    J The following could be done as a television spot or as a print ad. So it's> tongue-in-cheek - it gets the idea across to the weenies (us).  F Scene 1: Harried systems manager in glass house. Blue screens of deathL everywhere. He runs from one system to the other, pulling at hair, muttering "Oh my god."  J Voice-Over: "This is a typical day for a systems manager in a company thatI bet its life on PC operating systems to run critical business processes."m  L Scene 2: Man standing on large yacht under blue skies, in the Caribbean with< crystal clear water down 50 feet and several beautiful women swimming/lounging on deck.   Man: "Buy 50,000 at $21.25."  K Voice-Over: This is a typical day in the life of an OpenVMS system manager.e! Which day would you rather have?"O  & "OpenVMS - because life is too short."       "OpenVMS for success."5 "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote in messagee< news:ZiwL8.119956$%y.12766746@bin4.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com... > 0 > "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> wrote in messageE > news:y7rL8.217988$t8_.89278@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com...a > > Rob, > >g< > > It does not have to be on TV to get the message through. > >bH > > But OpenVMS advertising has to be done in the medium that executives read. @ > > ComputerWorld, et al., reaches technologists and some CIO's. > > J > > The Wall Street Journal reaches the guys who give the CIO's permission toL > > write the cheques, ie. the senior managment and the members of the Board > of > > Directors..t > >hL > > I don't know of one CIO that has permission from the Board to run 'wild' > and1J > > do what he wants without first getting approval from the board. If theL > > Board/senior execs know about VMS, then they will ask about it sooner orG > > later, especially if the ads that are done promoting it discuss the 	 > virtues3I > > of it in an objective manner. Some (not all) Board members and seniore > execst, > > have brains and do think for themselves. >>G > But I dare say that damn few of them have a clue about making good OSc
 > choices. >eK > Unfortunately, this may be true even at the CIO level (wasn't Curly a CIO5K > somewhere?).  One of the reasons American industry is in increasing peril:I > from foreign competition is its management incompetence at listening to 0 > lower-level people with specialized knowledge. >tK > Curly didn't know squat about VMS even though it was his job to (since henK > owned it and his company benefited significantly from it).  The entire HPdJ > board (less Walter) didn't know squat about the relative desirability of theeJ > merger, for God's sake:  they just followed Carly like good little lambs toL > HP's slaughter, and didn't even have the grace to blush when it turned outH > she had been misleading them about the projected merged performance as much* > as she had been misleading stockholders. >nL > If a CIO goes to his/her CEO and/or BoD with an OS recommendation and getsK > anything but "OK", "We can't afford to do that right now", or "Is there aGI > less immediately expensive course we could take?", s/he should look forwH > another job, since s/he clearly isn't trusted to do the current one byH > people who know far less about it than s/he does.  The same applies at leastoD > one more level down from the CIO:  unless the company has mandatedJ > standardization on a single OS - which of course raises other questions,L > division-level IT managers should have a better understanding of what theyK > need than the corporate CIO does, and in a sufficiently large corporation,7 > this may extend down to the department level as well.s > L > Get medium-level IT people interested in VMS and they'll promote it withinI > their own organizations sufficiently to get it used (after all, this iso thetD > only reason it's still around at all).  Show a significant bump in customerJ > interest, and you'll at least get some mention in a few of the rags read byJ > higher-ups, which is arguably better than an occasional ad.  Support NBR onE > PBS (as DEC used to) and you'll at least be on a CEO's radar screeno (again,nK > arguably better than ads:  aren't CEOs just as used to discounting ads asj > the rest of us?).( >oJ > Setting the bar at a height HP won't even try to clear is not the way to getMB > VMS turned around.  As I said in response to Nic, widespread VMS advertisingaI > within the computer media would be one hell of a lot more than has beenO seenH > for about a decade, and would certainly make *me* consider revising myL > opinion of HP's interest in the platform (and if I'm not a tough audience, I J > don't know who is).  Note that I'm not saying I believe this alone would beK > effective:  the Alphacide dealt VMS a blow it will find very difficult to7L > recover from, but a combination of good marketing and inspired developmentH > direction - plus the emergence of Itanic as a viable platform, even ifF > notably inferior to what Alpha would have been - could do the trick. *Then*J > there'll be something real to advertise to CEOs (including, perhaps mostI > significantly, proof of HP's real - financial - long-term commitment toj thet- > platform), and plenty of income to fund it.  >c > - bill >n >h >e   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 06 Jun 2002 00:59:50 GMTh1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>C Subject: Re: Open Letter to HP' Message-ID: <3CFEB7A5.1CF9C5F9@fsi.net>    "Alan E. Feldman" wrote: > a > "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote in message news:<3CFC370D.89D2C72@fsi.net>...e > > Hoff Hoffman wrote:0 > > > [snip] > > >   And please contact > > >   your Ambassador, Rep,e > >t% > > Been there, done that. No schmae.d > C > I thought I already posted this but it's been long enough to haves; > shown up by now, so please excuse me if this is a repeat.r >  > OK, what is "schmae"? Thanks.e  + Whatever you need it to mean in the moment.    (No) result.   (No) response.   (No) good (whatever).x  
 ...and so on.o   -- e David J. Dachteram dba DJE Systemsa http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/4   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 06 Jun 2002 01:01:35 GMTe1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>o Subject: Re: Open Letter to HP' Message-ID: <3CFEB80F.131E4989@fsi.net>C   Hoff Hoffman wrote:d > [snip]= > :2. Major network television commercials promoting OpenVMS.l >  >   Not gonna happen.   
 Then, VMS:   >   Not gonna happen.d  * Wanna make omelets? Gotta break some eggs.   -- i David J. Dachteras dba DJE Systemsg http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 06 Jun 2002 01:07:53 GMTd1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>u Subject: Re: Open Letter to HP' Message-ID: <3CFEB983.F0CE5B58@fsi.net>t   Rob Young wrote: > h > In article <gIpL8.118574$305.1530044@news.chello.at>, peter@langstoeger.at (Peter LANGSTOEGER) writes:c > > In article <adh4qr$bqo$6@web1.cup.hp.com>, hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) writes:eq > >>In article <9059bf6b.0205310725.73d173d4@posting.google.com>, jodonnell@hrblock.com (Jason O'Donnell) writes:-? > >>:2. Major network television commercials promoting OpenVMS.  > >> > >>  Not gonna happen.t > >aG > > Bingo. So, OpenVMS will continue to seem a dead product in the headr7 > > of the crowd and almost-all/the-uninformed CEO/CIO.e > >/M > > btw, Hoff, are you in marketing now ? Or else, how do you know for sure ?  > >e > G >         Because it makes little or no sense, would be one wild guess.  > P >         Again, we seldom see niche products advertized on TV.  Even as someoneM >         pointed out to me IBM advertized mainframes, I didn't know it.  TheoM >         TV commercial referred to shows a mainframe in the corner.  PerhapsuH >         it would have helped if the commercial ended with a tagline ofC >         "IBM's new Zseries."  If it was there, I missed that too.u  G I have occasionally seen such ads on the financial news channels and inoF the financial trade rags. Not common, but not unheard of (like VMS adsE are unheard of - that is to say, those who have heard of or seen themo  can't/won't cite an occurrence).  I >         Where are the OS/400 commercials?  Where are the MVS aka OS/390uE >         commercials?  Where are the NSK commercials?   , etc., etc.   B I'd tend to think that we have counter parts in those camps askingH similar questions. Like us, answers to them are not forthcoming, either,	 I'm sure.a   -- : David J. Dachteras dba DJE Systemsf http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/e   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 06 Jun 2002 01:11:07 GMTe1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>e Subject: Re: Open Letter to HP' Message-ID: <3CFEBA4A.A2ECECDD@fsi.net>i   Bob Ceculski wrote:  > m > peter@langstoeger.at (Peter LANGSTOEGER) wrote in message news:<gIpL8.118574$305.1530044@news.chello.at>...Mc > > In article <adh4qr$bqo$6@web1.cup.hp.com>, hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) writes:8r > > >In article <9059bf6b.0205310725.73d173d4@posting.google.com>, jodonnell@hrblock.com (Jason O'Donnell) writes:@ > > >:2. Major network television commercials promoting OpenVMS. > > >l > > >  Not gonna happen. > >lG > > Bingo. So, OpenVMS will continue to seem a dead product in the head 7 > > of the crowd and almost-all/the-uninformed CEO/CIO.o > >uM > > btw, Hoff, are you in marketing now ? Or else, how do you know for sure ?g > D > I have never seen an IBM OS400 commercial ... TV is irrelevant ...  F Hhmmm... three identical posts. You've picked up a nasty stutter, Bob.   -- . David J. Dachterae dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/t   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 06 Jun 2002 01:49:48 GMTc* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> Subject: Re: Open Letter to HP@ Message-ID: <%czL8.68032$4i.7256152@bin2.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>  . "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> wrote in messageC news:3TxL8.224560$t8_.78291@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com...W$ > It's got to be done at all levels.  K Then you might as well give up right now:  as Hoff said, ain't gonna happenyI (at least not until VMS has already taken a major up-turn in sales due toa' other efforts that need to come first).2  K It's your own choice whether you want to demand the world and not get it ormL demand something significant (to start with) and have a chance.  But even I,G who would love to see HP sink so quickly and so far that its entire toptK management got replaced, would be satisfied to see some real and continuingfL efforts devoted to VMS rather than hold out for a Wintel-style blitz that noI competent management would choose to *lead* with in a case like this.  OfFK course, since I'm reasonably certain that no competent top-level managementu- exists at HP, I don't expect either to occur.u   - bill   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 06 Jun 2002 02:02:35 GMT * From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> Subject: Re: Open Letter to HP> Message-ID: <%ozL8.3884$Qg.312116@bin6.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>  I [There's something occasionally flakey in my ISP's newsgroup management - ! apologies if this appears twice.]v  . "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> wrote in messageC news:3TxL8.224560$t8_.78291@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com...l$ > It's got to be done at all levels.  K Then you might as well give up right now:  as Hoff said, ain't gonna happenoI (at least not until VMS has already taken a major up-turn in sales due to.' other efforts that need to come first).m  K It's your own choice whether you want to demand the world and not get it or L demand something significant (to start with) and have a chance.  But even I,G who would love to see HP sink so quickly and so far that its entire tophK management got replaced, would be satisfied to see some real and continuingrL efforts devoted to VMS rather than hold out for a Wintel-style blitz that noI competent management would choose to *lead* with in a case like this.  OfaK course, since I'm reasonably certain that no competent top-level managementm- exists at HP, I don't expect either to occur.b   - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 05 Jun 2002 22:15:56 -0400r- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>f Subject: Re: Open Letter to HP, Message-ID: <3CFEC5DC.FC4311CE@videotron.ca>   Bill Todd wrote:M > Then you might as well give up right now:  as Hoff said, ain't gonna happent  N Nor should it, if HP's goals are to eventually migrate VMS customers to eitherG wintel or HP-UX, and in the mean time, HP is ready to handhold the moreyL profitable customers to make sure they don't leave, then there is no need to3 attract applications such as SAP etc, and grow VMS.i  L Would "managed extinction" be the proper term to describe what HP intends to do to VMS ?    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 06 Jun 2002 02:29:26 GMTe* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> Subject: Re: Open Letter to HPB Message-ID: <aOzL8.121848$%y.12960529@bin4.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>  : "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message& news:3CFEC5DC.FC4311CE@videotron.ca... > Bill Todd wrote:H > > Then you might as well give up right now:  as Hoff said, ain't gonna happen >.I > Nor should it, if HP's goals are to eventually migrate VMS customers toe either > wintel or HP-UX,  H The point it that it probably shouldn't happen even if HP's goals are toI grow VMS.  Competent management would begin with significant but targetedlJ steps to see whether any real growth potential appeared to exist, and then; follow up with additional efforts based on initial results.l  7  and in the mean time, HP is ready to handhold the moreaK > profitable customers to make sure they don't leave, then there is no needl to5 > attract applications such as SAP etc, and grow VMS.  >yK > Would "managed extinction" be the proper term to describe what HP intends  to
 > do to VMS ?n  
 I suspect so.t   - bill   ------------------------------   Date: 5 Jun 2002 21:35:26 -0600o+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young)c Subject: Re: Open Letter to HP3 Message-ID: <bhY4TQ3AKUrw@eisner.encompasserve.org>.  m In article <%czL8.68032$4i.7256152@bin2.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>, "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> writes:b > 0 > "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> wrote in messageE > news:3TxL8.224560$t8_.78291@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com... % >> It's got to be done at all levels.b > M > Then you might as well give up right now:  as Hoff said, ain't gonna happensK > (at least not until VMS has already taken a major up-turn in sales due to ) > other efforts that need to come first).s > M > It's your own choice whether you want to demand the world and not get it orlN > demand something significant (to start with) and have a chance.  But even I,I > who would love to see HP sink so quickly and so far that its entire topf > management got replacedI  < 	Going back 5 or so years, it was quite easy to marginalize @ 	Digital - until they got purchased by Compaq.  Then the fun was= 	to marginalize Compaq - until they got purchased by HP.  Nowo 	the fun is to marginalize HP.  @ 	They are a $76 billion dollar per year in revenue company, withB 	leadership in several key segments.  Far larger than everyone in  	their sector but IBM.   	Thanks for the chuckle.   				RobC   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 06 Jun 2002 03:01:10 GMTa* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> Subject: Re: Open Letter to HPB Message-ID: <WfAL8.122443$%y.12983516@bin4.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>  8 "Rob Young" <young_r@encompasserve.org> wrote in message- news:bhY4TQ3AKUrw@eisner.encompasserve.org...8   ...$  A > They are a $76 billion dollar per year in revenue company, withnB > leadership in several key segments.  Far larger than everyone in > their sector but IBM.e  G Gee - weren't they an $88 billion/year company back when the merger wass3 being announced?  Wonder what they'll be next year.e  J And, of course, as their enterprise business continues to falter a greaterJ and greater proportion of what revenue they retain comes from (you guessedH it, Walter) the PC business, so while revenue may be dropping alarmingly% profitability has fallen off a cliff.   J Carly was already in trouble a year ago, and only bought herself some timeC with the Compaq debacle (since a BoD stupid enough to go for it wasiI certainly stupid enough to give her an opportunity to 'prove' its worth).rK Unless she can come up with a similar scam next year, HP may finally deciden> it's had enough of her before going completely down the tubes.   - bill   ------------------------------   Date: 5 Jun 2002 23:49:47 -0600b+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young)  Subject: Re: Open Letter to HP3 Message-ID: <jh2LimlrsH4D@eisner.encompasserve.org>p  o In article <WfAL8.122443$%y.12983516@bin4.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>, "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> writes:S > : > "Rob Young" <young_r@encompasserve.org> wrote in message/ > news:bhY4TQ3AKUrw@eisner.encompasserve.org...u >  > .... > B >> They are a $76 billion dollar per year in revenue company, withC >> leadership in several key segments.  Far larger than everyone in, >> their sector but IBM. > I > Gee - weren't they an $88 billion/year company back when the merger wasa5 > being announced?  Wonder what they'll be next year.  >   C 	75 billion this year actually, $76 billion next year according to:   # http://biz.yahoo.com/z/a/h/hpq.htmlo  G 	But the stocks skidded.  Speaking of sliding stocks, since you broughtmC 	that up, have you checked out their competition or are you content  	just to marginalize HP?   	How about Sun for instance?  $ http://biz.yahoo.com/z/a/s/sunw.html  @ 	Year ago sales ending June 2001 of $18.2 billion.  Consensus of@ 	$12.4 billion June 2002.  An amazing growth of -32.2% in sales.    L > And, of course, as their enterprise business continues to falter a greaterL > and greater proportion of what revenue they retain comes from (you guessedJ > it, Walter) the PC business, so while revenue may be dropping alarmingly' > profitability has fallen off a cliff.o >   B 	Not nearly as much as Sun is faltering.  If you are going to pickC 	a company to marginalize, why not Sun?  They are a one trick pony,a$ 	where can they go but down and out?  L > Carly was already in trouble a year ago, and only bought herself some timeE > with the Compaq debacle (since a BoD stupid enough to go for it wasnK > certainly stupid enough to give her an opportunity to 'prove' its worth).aM > Unless she can come up with a similar scam next year, HP may finally decide @ > it's had enough of her before going completely down the tubes.  B 	I think you are barking up the wrong tree.  Why not do us a favorA 	and trot out some seasoned analysis instead of wild speculation?s   	"Down the tubes?"  @ 	Oh, you mean they go from $75 billion to $73?  What if they hit@ 	$76 billion next year, will you turn your attention to the much% 	crippled SGI or have fun in the Sun?h   				Robm   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 06 Jun 2002 01:04:59 -0400n- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>i Subject: Re: Open Letter to HP, Message-ID: <3CFEED7A.B7F46187@videotron.ca>   Bill Todd wrote:J > The point it that it probably shouldn't happen even if HP's goals are toK > grow VMS.  Competent management would begin with significant but targetedhL > steps to see whether any real growth potential appeared to exist, and then= > follow up with additional efforts based on initial results.a  I VMS has publically been declared dead too many times.  And each time, thenN owner stood still without an equally public denial (partly because the owner's8 long term goals matched the predictions - in my opinion)  M IF HP intends to grow VMS, it must first kill once and for all the rumours ofeI VMS's death, and to do so, you need a very public announcement. Without alE publuc announcement that things have (finally) changed, customers andsL potential customers will continue to see the "business as usual" which means5 that the owner expect a gradual extinguishing of VMS.B  K HP could have gotten a free ride when it announced its product roadmap, but F instead, it re-enforced the "business as usual" and in fact, helped by+ Stallard, probably accelerated the process.a  L *IF* HP decides that this is not the way it really wants to proceed, then itN must undo the damage that it has done as well as the long terem damage done by previous owners.   ------------------------------    Date: 06 Jun 2002 12:11:55 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com> Subject: Re: Open Letter to HP- Message-ID: <87y9dt6o6s.fsf@prep.synonet.com>d  - young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) writes:n  ! > It would be a waste of money.      6 > http://www.computerworld.com/services/mediakit/rates  eF > $21000 an ad page for black and white in ComputerWorld.  A whole lot8 > more of them than 1 minute of network commercial time.  D Bull. One ISV staying on board, and one down stream sale as a resultE would more than cover it. A visible ad campain will sell what hp need ? most of all; credibility that VMS is real and worth supporting.l  E Still think it would be cheaper and better to send Curly on a one wayt trip to Kashmir though...    --  < Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.J@                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 06 Jun 2002 01:17:01 -0400w- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>t Subject: Re: Open Letter to HP, Message-ID: <3CFEF04C.2084D2BC@videotron.ca>   Bill Todd wrote:L > Carly was already in trouble a year ago, and only bought herself some timeE > with the Compaq debacle (since a BoD stupid enough to go for it wasnK > certainly stupid enough to give her an opportunity to 'prove' its worth).rM > Unless she can come up with a similar scam next year, HP may finally decidem@ > it's had enough of her before going completely down the tubes.  M How much of the HP board is made up of ex Compaq board members ? Or is the HP-L board still very much the same HP board (sans Hwelett) that existed prior to Carly and Curly's folly ?c  G HP has inherited many Compaq employees and directors who have the wrongH? attitudes for profitablility (Capellas, Winkler come to mind). a  L If Carly is throw out, will she be replaced by Capellas or some other Wintel slave ?d  M In my opinion, one would need Hewlett to take over and do a major cleanup andJH replace wintel slaves with enterprise folks. Until that is done, HP willH continue to be a wintel company with zero odds of VMS allowed to compete against Wintel.u   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 06 Jun 2002 05:25:53 GMT 1 From: LESLIE@JRLVAX.HOUSTON.RR.COM (Jerry Leslie)8 Subject: Re: Open Letter to HP< Message-ID: <BnCL8.198083$Q42.8885104@typhoon.austin.rr.com>  . JF Mezei (jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca) wrote:I : How much of the HP board is made up of ex Compaq board members ? Or is eM : the HP board still very much the same HP board (sans Hwelett) that existed p$ : prior to Carly and Curly's folly ? :   F This site will show who the members of the board are and what members ' serve on other Bods (Flash 5 required):      http://www.theyrule.net/   They Rule   H --Jerry Leslie   leslie@clio.rice.edu  (my opinions are strictly my own)9   Note: leslie@jrlvax.houston.rr.com is invalid for email    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 06 Jun 2002 01:46:04 -0400e- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>  Subject: Re: Open Letter to HP, Message-ID: <3CFEF719.3054FCE0@videotron.ca>   Jerry Leslie wrote: G > This site will show who the members of the board are and what membersh) > serve on other Bods (Flash 5 required):w >  >   http://www.theyrule.net/  M or http://www.theyrule.net/theyrule.html if you wish to bypass their creation 3 of a new windows without menu, scrol bars etc etc).e  M Unfortunatly, this site still shows Compaq, and worse, still shows Ken lay asaG a borad member of Compaq. So I doubt I could trust their listing of HP.S   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 05 Jun 2002 19:42:30 GMTe0 From: "warren sander" <warren.sander@compaq.com>) Subject: Re: OpenVMS FAQ due next week...e1 Message-ID: <GQtL8.19$iB.782396@news.cpqcorp.net>    The FAQ is on the FreewareCD.,     --B ------------------------------------------------------------------6 Warren Sander                        OpenVMS MarketingG Hewlett-Packard Company              Work:  warren.sander@remove.hp.commL 200 Forest Street MR01-3/J1          Personal: sander@remove.ma.ultranet.com3 Marlboro, MA 01752                   (508) 467-4875-5    My opinions are my own and I only speak for myselfD,          Read http://www.openvms.compaq.com/B ------------------------------------------------------------------    F "Phillip Helbig" <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> wrote in message5 news:01KIJBL0W0BM984WQP@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com...lF > >  To various questions which arose in this thread, in no particular
 > >  order...m >oH > Perhaps the FAQ could go onto the VMS documentation CD as well?  ThereH > ARE folks interested in getting going with VMS who might want to avoidC > relying on another system for IP access etc.  Also, cut-and-paste G > between DECterms is nice, which would be possible if the FAQ could bedD > addressed locally on a system so that it is available for internet > access is.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 05 Jun 2002 23:22:37 +0100r( From: Mr Beermat <beermat.geo@yahoo.com>) Subject: Re: OpenVMS FAQ due next week... 8 Message-ID: <no3tfucf9uibae5ooogljm204bifgc1nui@4ax.com>  1 On Wed, 05 Jun 2002 19:42:30 GMT, "warren sander"t! <warren.sander@compaq.com> wrote:f   >The FAQ is on the FreewareCD.  % How does one obtain the Freeware CDs?-   greg   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 05 Jun 2002 22:04:47 -0400o- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> ) Subject: Re: OpenVMS FAQ due next week...2* Message-ID: <3CFEC33F.B1F2D1@videotron.ca>   Mr Beermat wrote:m  > >The FAQ is on the FreewareCD. > ' > How does one obtain the Freeware CDs?s  = instructions on how to obtain the freeware CD are in the FAQ.a     :-)v   ------------------------------   Date: 5 Jun 2002 21:36:21 -0600i- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)s) Subject: Re: OpenVMS FAQ due next week...i3 Message-ID: <K1GcFHF2SiVI@eisner.encompasserve.org>m  c In article <no3tfucf9uibae5ooogljm204bifgc1nui@4ax.com>, Mr Beermat <beermat.geo@yahoo.com> writes:e3 > On Wed, 05 Jun 2002 19:42:30 GMT, "warren sander"s# > <warren.sander@compaq.com> wrote:t >  >>The FAQ is on the FreewareCD.s > ' > How does one obtain the Freeware CDs?   1 They come with the VMS Operating System releases.t   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 06 Jun 2002 02:46:32 GMTh* From: genew@mail.ocis.net (Gene Wirchenko)+ Subject: Re: OT: Units (was USofA'an coins)x- Message-ID: <3cf96573.18974086@news.ocis.net>   ( CBFalconer <cbfalconer@yahoo.com> wrote:   [snip]  B >Since you all, and the entire universe, are purely figments of myA >imagination, *I* have a much better sense of proportion :-)  All@* >my problems are really self-flagellation.  %      Ah, you'll maybe enjoy this sig:w  5 The fundamental problem with Solipsism is it makes me 6 responsible for the fact that you're a complete idiot.  
 Sincerely,   Gene Wirchenko  ' Computerese Irregular Verb Conjugation:t      I have preferences.      You have biases.l      He/She has prejudices.s   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 06 Jun 2002 04:58:21 GMTo) From: Carl Bennett <vze35kfz@verizon.net>hK Subject: Re: Shadowset on standalone system goes into merge state on rebooth* Message-ID: <3CFEEC99.1000606@verizon.net>  & --------------0306000407060605020009009 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowedy Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   G I don't know if you have looked at this, but every time I hear about a rB merge that takes that long, I go straight to the shadow patches.. G depending on the VMS version.. I'd look for the Sys20/Update 3 patch.. kH the Scsi, and the Shad... they usually make a gigantic difference... we G had  a problem with a site that was merging as well and traced it down lB to of all things a printer that was spooled to the wrong device...   Carl Bennett     Peter Flunger wrote:  ) >"Rich Jordan" <jordan@ccs4vms.com> wroteP >eF >>The 'last' shadowset DSA2 is going into 'merge' state after a systemE >>shutdown and reboot.  DSA0 and DSA1 do not act this way.  The merge A >>took almost 40 hours to complete on a mostly idle system (aftereC >>restarting from 0% when the machine had to be shut down to move).a >> >tB >If it is the time that concerns you most, try setting the logical. >SHAD$MERGE_DELAY_FACTOR to 1000 in the system >lnm table in EXEC mode.B >This will speed up the merge operation on 'fast disk subsystems', >as Compaq calls it.A >This logical name defines the maximum allowed difference between9C >the fastest IO and the slowest IO on a Disk ( where 100 would meane> >no difference, so fastest = 100% of slowest ) while mergeing.B >The default is 200, meaning the slowest IO may only take twice asD >much time as the fastest IO or else the shadow-merge operation will! >delay the mergeing of the disks. B >Maximun allowed value is 1000, meaning the slowest IO may take 10 >times as long as the fastest. >mC >Commenting on why there is a merge after all has already been donet( >in follow up messages in this threat .. >  >Peter >o >r    & --------------030600040706060502000900) Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-asciiw Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bita   <html> <head> </head>  <body>L I don't know if you have looked at this, but every time I hear about a mergeH that takes that long, I go straight to the shadow patches.. depending onK the VMS version.. I'd look for the Sys20/Update 3 patch.. the Scsi, and thePN Shad... they usually make a gigantic difference... we had &nbsp;a problem withM a site that was merging as well and traced it down to of all things a printer-, that was spooled to the wrong device... <br> <br> Carl Bennett<br> <br> <br> Peter Flunger wrote:<br>F <blockquote type="cite" cite="mid:adfaq6$tur$1@newsreader1.netway.at">   <pre wrap="">"Rich Jordan" <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:jordan@ccs4vms.com">&lt;jordan@ccs4vms.com&gt;</a> wrote<br><br></pre><   <blockquote type="cite">.    <pre wrap="">The 'last' shadowset DSA2 is going into 'merge' state after a system<br>shutdown and reboot.  DSA0 and DSA1 do not act this way.  The merge<br>took almost 40 hours to complete on a mostly idle system (after<br>restarting from 0% when the machine had to be shut down to move).<br></pre>     </blockquote>      <pre wrap=""><!----><br>If it is the time that concerns you most, try setting the logical<br>SHAD$MERGE_DELAY_FACTOR to 1000 in the system<br>lnm table in EXEC mode.<br>This will speed up the merge operation on 'fast disk subsystems',<br>as Compaq calls it.<br>This logical name defines the maximum allowed difference between<br>the fastest IO and the slowest IO on a Disk ( where 100 would mean<br>no difference, so fastest = 100% of slowest ) while mergeing.<br>The default is 200, meaning the slowest IO mzay only take twice as<br>much time as the fastest IO or else the shadow-merge operation will<br>delay the mergeing of the disks.<br>Maximun allowed value is 1000, meaning the slowest IO may take 10<br>times as long as the fastest.<br><br>Commenting on why there is a merge after all has already been done<br>in follow up messages in this threat ..<br><br>Peter<br><br><br></pre>     </blockquote>      <br>     </body>c     </html>g  ( --------------030600040706060502000900--   ------------------------------    Date: 06 Jun 2002 12:17:25 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>, Subject: Re: Simulate hardware failure. How?- Message-ID: <87u1oh6nxm.fsf@prep.synonet.com>'  ' Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net> writes:n  8 > In article <3CFE18AF.97D3C9BA@Free.fr>, Didier says...  >1 > >open the box and hot-unplug a non-system disk?e  c? > Hitting eject on a floppy would likely log something as well.n  ? Ah, yes, floppies. That reminds me, so, for your entertainment:,   $ mou/for dva0:a$ %MOUNT-F-MOUNTED, !AF mounted on !AS $a   Now play count the errors :)    -- d< Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.r@                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 05 Jun 2002 21:49:48 -0400-2 From: rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger)) Subject: Re: Storage of Conslidated MediajL Message-ID: <rdeininger-0506022149480001@11cust175.tnt2.nashua.nh.da.uu.net>  G >I was curious how other systems managers handle storage and purging ofiG >both CDROMs and manuals.  I'm running OpenVMS 7.2-1 on all nodes (withcF >the exception of a retiring VAX 6.2) and really don't see a reason to? >go back to older versions of any of the layered products.  TheyE >Freeware CD seems to be commulative and the older fireware CDs don'ta >do me any good.  I I don't think the freeware is cumulative, but I can't think of an examplee off the top of my head.m  F The firmware CDs are not cumulative either.  Due to space limitations,I firmware for platforms that haven't changed for something like 2 years isp& no longer included on the current CDs.  B Layered products are sometimes dropped from the consolidated kits.  / My strategy is to keep all of it, forever.  :-)    ------------------------------   Date: 5 Jun 2002 21:40:08 -0600a- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) ) Subject: Re: Storage of Conslidated Mediai3 Message-ID: <xBoY71dZtLRo@eisner.encompasserve.org>m   In article <rdeininger-0506022149480001@11cust175.tnt2.nashua.nh.da.uu.net>, rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger) writes:p  D > Layered products are sometimes dropped from the consolidated kits. > 1 > My strategy is to keep all of it, forever.  :-)r   That is my strategy too.   ------------------------------    Date: 06 Jun 2002 12:24:32 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>) Subject: Re: Storage of Conslidated Mediao- Message-ID: <87lm9t6nlr.fsf@prep.synonet.com>    plugge@usa.net (Donald) writes:   D > I'm currently doing some spring cleaning and right now I'm staringE > at a growing pile of consolidated distributions, along with a Greatv > Grey Wall.  iE > I was curious how other systems managers handle storage and purgingmE > of both CDROMs and manuals.  I'm running OpenVMS 7.2-1 on all nodesnC > (with the exception of a retiring VAX 6.2) and really don't see a E > reason to go back to older versions of any of the layered products.eD > The Freeware CD seems to be commulative and the older fireware CDs > don't do me any good.?  B Purge? What does this `purge' thing do batman :) I'm still cursing8 losing my copy of DSC2 so I can no longer read V2 tapes.  A The old kits are the only place you will find lots of things that0 have been dropped.     -- i< Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.T@                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------   Date: 5 Jun 2002 19:00:12 -0700  From: wingwong@witty.com (wing)i) Subject: TCP socket communication queries = Message-ID: <873e96d6.0206051800.67bcda89@posting.google.com>    Hi,i  + I am new in socket programming and openvms.t  E I have written a server process and client process which communicatesF with socket with each other.  @ Is there any chance of data loss in socket communication between9 processes within a openvms machine?  The socket option isl
 non-blocking.   > Is there any tool to trace the data thro' socket with the same machine?   Thanks.o   Wing   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 06 Jun 2002 04:42:50 GMTi0 From: "Matt Muggeridge" <Matt.Muggeridge@hp.com>- Subject: Re: TCP socket communication queriesn@ Message-ID: <eLBL8.264180$o66.679005@news-server.bigpond.net.au>  B > Is there any chance of data loss in socket communication between% > processes within a openvms machine?t  J Depends on the socket type.  Stream (TCP) sockets are reliable, sequenced,B and will not duplicate packets.  However record boundaries are notL preserved, so at most you will be guaranteed to receive 1-byte at a time, soJ you need to reassemble and parse the stream for packets in user-space.  OnB the other hand, datagram (UDP) sockets will only guarantee messageK boundaries are preserved.  Otherwise datagrams may and do get discarded and/H replicated and arrive out of order silently.  Your application must take
 care of that.t  K Within this context, it makes no difference whether your socket is blockingy or non-blocking.  @ > Is there any tool to trace the data thro' socket with the same
 > machine?   $ HELP TCPTRACEn   Matt.t   --= -------------------------------------------------------------  OpenVMS TCP/IP Engineering Enterprise Computing Group Hewlett-Packard Company  Gold Coast, AUSTRALIAl= -------------------------------------------------------------0    , "wing" <wingwong@witty.com> wrote in message7 news:873e96d6.0206051800.67bcda89@posting.google.com...a > Hi,6 >a- > I am new in socket programming and openvms.P > G > I have written a server process and client process which communicates- > with socket with each other. >hB > Is there any chance of data loss in socket communication between; > processes within a openvms machine?  The socket option isF > non-blocking.o >n@ > Is there any tool to trace the data thro' socket with the same
 > machine? >g	 > Thanks.s >  > Wing   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 05 Jun 2002 18:08:23 GMTe# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>o Subject: The HP 21-point plan)I Message-ID: <rssL8.195409$ah_.56910@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>d  5 "Bob Ceculski" <bob@instantwhip.com> wrote in messaged7 news:d7791aa1.0206050755.31d02beb@posting.google.com...e >oI > thats why vms is hated ... companies want you to always upgrade ... and H > patch, and upgrade, so they can make more money ... with VMS you don'tI > need to go thru those headaches, simple maintenance is enough for most,eG > upgrades are simple ... what I don't understand is what company wouldhJ > not want to have os like this, keep software features upgraded, and justL > build the customer base and collect the maintenance fees ... no headaches,H > low cost high profit model ... why try to do it the charlatan way like& > Bill Gates and the unix/linux crowd?  E Your comments go a long way to explaining Digital/Compaq/and now HP's- attitude towards OpenVMS.0    E 1) If it works so well, then the maintenance revenues stay low. Which8 means...  I 2) The only way to grow the revenue stream is to sell new licences. Whichr means...  D 3) The only way to sell new licences is to market it. Which means...  G 4) The only way to market it is to spend money doing so. Which means...r  J 5) Digital/Compaq/HP should be spending money to market VMS but since theyL didn't/aren't doing that to any meaningful degree, or where it is effective. Which means...  9 6) Revenues stay lower than they ought to. Which means...r  I 7) With revenues lower than they should be, it's easy to de-emphasize the  product. Which means...o  H 8) A de-emphasized product is no longer 'strategic' to Digital/Compaq/HP6 management (if you can call them that). Which means...  K 9) When it's no longer strategic, Digital/Compaq/HP tries to migrate you to G something that is 'strategic' - Windoze & the unix flavor of the month.h Which means...  L 10) Digital/Compaq/HP try to force you to migrate by ensuring that fewer and4 fewer ISV's products support OpenVMS. Which means...  L 11) That customers are filled with FUD.  Digital/Compaq/HP refuse to counterH the customer FUD clearly and without ambiguity, and even go so far as to0 make their own statements of FUD. Which means...  H 12) Digital/Compaq/HP loses paying support/maintenance customers as theyD migrate to Slowlaris and AIX, and to Dell - probably more than a 50% attrition rate. Which means...  . 13) That drives revenues lower. Which means...  C 14) Digital/Compaq/HP sell fewer new licenses because potential newnI customers see the dwindling installed base and they say, "No VMS for us."- Which means...  4 15) That revenues spiral still lower. Which means...  K 16) Eventually revenues are so low that HP announces the retirement of VMS.e Which means...  J 17) Most of the remaining VMS customers migrate to a vendor other than HP. Which means...  L 18) Anyone at a customer who championed VMS is fired 'for cause' and remains5 unemployed for the rest of their life. Which means....  D 19) The customer gets Hphux'ed as they have to re-invest millions inJ re-inventing what worked just fine. They never buy anything from HP or its' successor company again. Which means...-  A 20) HP writes off the approximate $5 billion in acquisition costs 4 attributable to VMS/Tru64/Alpha. Which results in...  @ 21) Carly and Curly collect $117 million in performance bonuses.   ------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2002 21:29:18 -0400% From: "John Vottero" <John@mvpsi.com>lY Subject: Re: The Press and the IA-64 Port (was Re: Another analyst says VMS port won't bed/ Message-ID: <uftenf12kcjm0d@news.supernews.com>v  2 "Alan Greig" <a.greig@virgin.net> wrote in message# news:adl7nk02ore@drn.newsguy.com...0K > In article <aIoL8.194944$ah_.23327@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>,e "JohnQ	 > says...e > >  > >s= > >"JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message ) > >news:3CFDFF28.E40AB171@videotron.ca...  > >> Alan Greig wrote: > >>E > >> If you have one bad apple on the food chain to the top, then thea message  > >from L > >> the low end (Gorham) will never reach the top end, and the top end willL > >> continue to make decisions and act in ways which are detrimental to the > >low > >> end's wishes/actions. > >d% > >Exactly. You can't push up a rope.e >QK > Believe you me, the point that we need *real* committment to VMS from theu veryD > top down was made to Gorham. Gorham replied that Capellas had been
 challenged on-L > the "eviscerate" speech and Capellas responded that he had been quoted out ofK > context. When a fuller context of the speech was given plus references toSL > previous occasions Capellas and Winkler have said exactly the same thing - ieG > "Our strategy is to help Microsoft conquer the Datacentre. The era of0L > proprietary systems is over", Gorham said he understood how this would not goI > down well with many customers and promised to go back and work on it...   L It's very difficult to have any faith in a president that says "Our strategyK is to help Microsoft conquer the Datacentre. The era of proprietary systems H is over".  Does he not understand what a proprietary system is?  Does heH think that Microsoft offers non-proprietary systems?  Does he think thatE Windows NT is less propritary than OpenVMS?  If he doesn't understandn9 fundementel issues such as this, why is he the president?p   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 06 Jun 2002 00:56:27 GMTy1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>bY Subject: Re: The Press and the IA-64 Port (was Re: Another analyst says VMS port won't be ' Message-ID: <3CFEB6DA.207BBEA8@fsi.net>r   Alan Greig wrote:n > Q > In article <aIoL8.194944$ah_.23327@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>, "Johns	 > says...- > >- > >-= > >"JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in messagel) > >news:3CFDFF28.E40AB171@videotron.ca...R > >> Alan Greig wrote: > >>M > >> If you have one bad apple on the food chain to the top, then the message> > >from-L > >> the low end (Gorham) will never reach the top end, and the top end willL > >> continue to make decisions and act in ways which are detrimental to the > >low > >> end's wishes/actions. > >t% > >Exactly. You can't push up a rope.s > P > Believe you me, the point that we need *real* committment to VMS from the veryR > top down was made to Gorham. Gorham replied that Capellas had been challenged onO > the "eviscerate" speech and Capellas responded that he had been quoted out ofnK > context. When a fuller context of the speech was given plus references tolO > previous occasions Capellas and Winkler have said exactly the same thing - ie G > "Our strategy is to help Microsoft conquer the Datacentre. The era ofmO > proprietary systems is over", Gorham said he understood how this would not goaI > down well with many customers and promised to go back and work on it...o  D Hhmmm... Wonder what one of those "promises" would go for on eBay...   -- e David J. Dachteram dba DJE Systemst http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/d   ------------------------------   Date: 6 Jun 2002 05:36:11 GMTs3 From: ccmn@morpheus.its.latrobe.edu.au (Mark North)d Subject: VMS/PMDF problems. Message-ID: <admscb$s7t$1@news.latrobe.edu.au>   Hi everyone,  L We are having a prob on one of our VMS systems that has just surfaced today.  K Whenever PMDF tries to spawn a process it returns a "Detached process logino failure" error.-  W The last line complains about 'file create failed', but I can't see why, there's plentye" of diskspace, we don't use quotas.  8 Can anyone shed any light on what might be causing this?    
 OPCOM output:   8 %%%%%%%%%%%  OPCOM   6-JUN-2002 16:25:05.37  %%%%%%%%%%%( Message from user AUDIT$SERVER on LURAC1S Security alarm (SECURITY) and security audit (SECURITY) on LURAC1, system id: 35872f8 Auditable event:          Detached process login failure1 Event time:                6-JUN-2002 16:25:05.36m* PID:                      20800284        * Process name:             <PMDF-03100311> * Username:                 SYSTEM          & Process owner:            [COM,SYSTEM]G Image name:               $6$DKB0:[SYS0.SYSCOMMON.][SYSEXE]LOGINOUT.EXEb< Status:                   %RMS-E-CRE, ACP file create failed       Thanks.   
 Mark North UNIX systems specilaistn) La Trobe Univerity, Melbourne, Australia.b    Email: mark.north@latrobe.edu.au   ------------------------------    Date: 06 Jun 2002 12:19:48 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>> Subject: Re: Would you like to see this on the VMS freeware CD- Message-ID: <87ptz56ntn.fsf@prep.synonet.com>k  3 Forrest Kenney <Forrest.Kenney@hp.com.doom> writes:e  E >     Well this midnight hack is getting larger.  I picked up a cheap E > Gravis gamepad, I made a one line change and that is working.  WhattC > if anything the military folks do with this is out of my control.t > As is testing.  @ Seems like you need to quick port of DOOM III to test with. Hey,? THAT would go well on the FW CD. I wonder how many thousand youn5 could get into a deathmatch on a `suitable' GS1280 :)    -- b< Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.r@                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 05 Jun 2002 21:47:15 GMTa* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>, Subject: Re: [Change topic]:  USofA'an coinsB Message-ID: <DFvL8.134080$Kp.13061454@bin7.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>  > "Bill Gunshannon" <bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu> wrote in message% news:adl166$d38$1@info.cs.uofs.edu...aD > In article <drNK8.108081$jm.10677741@bin6.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>,/ >  "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> writes:o > |>: > |> "Bill Gunshannon" <bill@cs.uofs.edu> wrote in messageA > |> news:20020603093857.B73117-100000@server2.cs.scranton.edu...J, > |> > On Thu, 30 May 2002, Bill Todd wrote: > |> > > |> > >J > |> > > Which ($14.99) is exactly the case with the digital pumps.  But I > |> haven'tJ > |> > > noticed whether the final calculation is rounded up (i.e., 10.001 > |> gallonsK > |> > > would cost $15.00) or to the nearest penny (i.e., you wouldn't hite > |> $15.00n% > |> > > until about 10.004 gallons).m > |> >- > |> > Actually, 10.0006671114 gallons of gas  > |>I > |> Actually, 10.003+ gallons, which I rounded up to 10.004 since 10.003n wouldaL > |> have been too low (and as I said I think the pump resolution is 0.001). You 6 > |> appear to have dropped a decimal point somewhere. >  > Hmmm.  let's try this.  L Let's not.  I could point out your error for you, but think it would be more( instructive for you to find it yourself.  J By the way, I thought to check at the pump yesterday when I filled up.  AtK $1.349/gallon, 10.001 gallons still cost $13.49, so either the pump roundedsI to the nearest penny or truncated to the last penny (it's kind of hard toeE control the flow to an indicated 0.001 gallon, so I didn't check thate: aspect - the next data point I got was 10.009 for $13.50).   - bill   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2002.311 ************************xception of a retiring VAX 6.2) and really don't see a reason to? >go back to older versions of any of the layered products.  TheyE >Freeware CD seems to be commulative and the older fireware CDs don'ta >do me any good.  I I don't think the freeware is cumulative, but I can't think of an examplee off the top of my head.m  F The firmware CDs are not cumulative either.  Due to space limitations,I firmware for platforms that haven't changed for something like 2 years isp& no longer included on the curren m    m    m    m    m    m    m    m    m    	m    
m    m    m    
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