1 INFO-VAX	Thu, 06 Jun 2002	Volume 2002 : Issue 312       Contents:A Re: "Recode in another language", was: RE: VAX to ia64 migration? A Re: "Recode in another language", was: RE: VAX to ia64 migration?  "Tru64 and OpenVMS Times"  Re: "Tru64 and OpenVMS Times"  Re: "Tru64 and OpenVMS Times"  Re: "Tru64 and OpenVMS Times"  Re: "Tru64 and OpenVMS Times"  Re: "Tru64 and OpenVMS Times"  Re: "Tru64 and OpenVMS Times"  Re: "Tru64 and OpenVMS Times"  (About) Open to HP" RE: (Change topic): USofA'an coins" Re: (Change topic): USofA'an coins" Re: (Change topic): USofA'an coins, ? VMS 7.3.1 release date and a SAN question.0 Re: ? VMS 7.3.1 release date and a SAN question.0 Re: ? VMS 7.3.1 release date and a SAN question.0 A dvdwrite(r)-Program: save 4.3 GB on a DVD-R(W) Re: Could linux become VMS?  Re: Could linux become VMS?  Re: Could linux become VMS?  Re: Could linux become VMS?  Re: Could linux become VMS?  Re: Could linux become VMS?  RE: Could linux become VMS?  Re: Could linux become VMS?  Re: dlt tape space Re: dlt tape space RE: dlt tape spaceP ES-40 slower than AS-4100 was Re: Running Test and Production systems on differeP Re: ES-40 slower than AS-4100 was Re: Running Test and Production systems on difP Re: ES-40 slower than AS-4100 was Re: Running Test and Production systems on dif Re: ES45 and VMS  7.2-1 > Hammer follows Itanic2 ... hits iceberg ... EV7 only solution! Re: Help tuning NISCS_MAX_PKTSZ  Re: Help tuning NISCS_MAX_PKTSZ 9 How to put my VMS box on a BroadBand Connection (part II) = Re: How to put my VMS box on a BroadBand Connection (part II) = Re: How to put my VMS box on a BroadBand Connection (part II) = Re: How to put my VMS box on a BroadBand Connection (part II) = Re: How to put my VMS box on a BroadBand Connection (part II) # RE: IT world becoming like lawyers? # RE: IT world becoming like lawyers? # Re: IT world becoming like lawyers? : Itanium problems again ... EV8 looking like a replacement!& just got this - OpenVMS faxing utility* Re: just got this - OpenVMS faxing utility* Re: just got this - OpenVMS faxing utility* Re: just got this - OpenVMS faxing utility* Re: just got this - OpenVMS faxing utility* Re: just got this - OpenVMS faxing utility* Re: just got this - OpenVMS faxing utility/ Library files as high performance file system ? 3 Re: Library files as high performance file system ? 3 Re: Library files as high performance file system ? 3 Re: Library files as high performance file system ? 3 Re: Library files as high performance file system ? 2 Re: Linux gains acceptance at expense of Microsoft Logging user usafe Re: Logging user usafe Re: Logging user usage Re: Logging user usage9 low-end VMS (was: Re: Mark Gorham's Beer Bash in Reading) = Re: low-end VMS (was: Re: Mark Gorham's Beer Bash in Reading) & Re: Mark Gorham's Beer Bash in Reading& Re: Mark Gorham's Beer Bash in Reading& Re: Mark Gorham's Beer Bash in Reading& Re: Mark Gorham's Beer Bash in Reading& Re: Mark Gorham's Beer Bash in Reading& Re: Mark Gorham's Beer Bash in Reading& Re: Mark Gorham's Beer Bash in Reading& Re: Mark Gorham's Beer Bash in Reading& Re: Mark Gorham's Beer Bash in Reading& Re: Mark Gorham's Beer Bash in Reading Re: Newsreader for OpenVMS 7.2 Re: Newsreader for OpenVMS 7.2 Re: No new Alpha sales Re: No new Alpha sales Re: No new Alpha sales Re: No new Alpha sales Re: No new Alpha sales Re: Open Letter to HP  Re: Open Letter to HP  Re: Open Letter to HP  Re: Open Letter to HP C OpenVMS, Volume Desktop OS (Re: Mark Gorham's Beer Bash in Reading) H Oracle RDB 7.0.64 BUG !!!! was Re: Oracle Rdb V7.0.6.4 has been released) Re: Oracle Rdb V7.0.6.4 has been released ) Re: Oracle Rdb V7.0.6.4 has been released ) Re: Oracle Rdb V7.0.6.4 has been released ) Re: Oracle Rdb V7.0.6.4 has been released ) Re: Oracle Rdb V7.0.6.4 has been released + Re: read access required to write to a file + Re: read access required to write to a file ; Re: Real Time Survey: After the MIRA, the VAX FT. And then? M Running Test and Production systems on different Galaxy instances in one ES40  STARTUP stops after boot Re: STARTUP stops after boot Re: STARTUP stops after boot Re: STARTUP stops after boot Re: STARTUP stops after boot  RE: Storage of Conslidated Media  Re: Storage of Conslidated Media  Re: Storage of Conslidated MediaP Re: The Press and the IA-64 Port (was Re: Another analyst says VMS port won't beP Re: The Press and the IA-64 Port (was Re: Another analyst says VMS port won't beP Re: The Press and the IA-64 Port (was Re: Another analyst says VMS port won't be Urgent News Flash  Re: VMS/PMDF problem Re: VMS/PMDF problem Re: VMS/PMDF problem Re: VMS/PMDF problem Re: VMS/PMDF problem5 RE: Would you like to see this on the VMS freeware CD # Re: [Change topic]:  USofA'an coins # Re: [Change topic]:  USofA'an coins # Re: [Change topic]:  USofA'an coins   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 06 Jun 2002 11:36:40 -0400 + From: Steve Lionel <Steve.Lionel@intel.com> J Subject: Re: "Recode in another language", was: RE: VAX to ia64 migration?8 Message-ID: <a5vufu4h67ntl1945cq1l8cl72kf4p7mqe@4ax.com>  E The Intel news server doesn't contain this post (yet), so I'm sort of C creating this follow-up manually.  I hope it ends up in the correct 	 thread...    Ken Fairfield wrote:  E > To add to what John has said, I recently had the pleasure of giving H > Steve Lionel, of Fortran fame and now an Intel employee, a tour of theI > fabs here in Oregon.  I asked specifically about VMS compilers, GEM and L > IA-64.  To answer the doubters questions (but probably not satisfy them!),L > The Digtial, then Compaq, now Intel compiler teams is writing an interfaceJ > between GEM and the Intel back-end, which I believe is called "ISL" (butJ > I could very well be mistaken).  The point is the existing VMS compilersL > which use the GEM back-end for Alpha will use an ISL back-end on IA-64 viaI > an "adapter" that makes ISL look like GEM to the compiler front-end. So C > all existing GEM-based VMS compilers should "just work" on IA-64.   E It was a delight to see Ken again after all these years (in the past, B we'd see each other at DECUS), but it seems I could have explained myself better...  D Compilers for OpenVMS Itanium will generally fall into three groups:  D Fortran - "Compaq (Digital) heritage" front-end (language semantics)E hooked up to the Intel "back-end" (optimization and code generation). B (This is a lot more work than it sounds!)  The Intel back-end teamB acquired some, but not all, of the Compaq GEM back-end developers.C Most of the development work is done by Intel, with any new OpenVMS C customization or features needed added by Compaq (now HP) engineers @ (active development is underway.)  General new features added toE Fortran will be available for Itanium and not Alpha, though bug fixes ( will continue to be available for Alpha.  C C++ (and I think C) - This will start as the current Intel compiler D (with feature compatibility from Compaq C/C++), using the Intel codeD generator.  Again, any OpenVMS-specific customizations to be made by HP.   E Everything else - As John Reagan says, other GEM-based compilers will B be GEM-based on OpenVMS Itanium and are being developed by HP.  We2 already had GEM for Itanium before the Intel deal.  A There's a lot of cooperation between HP and Intel - I suggest not % getting hung up on who is doing what.       D Please send Visual Fortran support requests to vf-support@compaq.com     Steve Lionel  Intel/Compaq Fortran Engineering Software Products Division Intel Corporation 
 Nashua, NH  . Compaq Fortran - http://www.compaq.com/fortranK Intel Fortran - http://developer.intel.com/software/products/compilers/f60/ / User forum: http://www.compaq.com/fortran/forum    ------------------------------  * Date: Thu, 6 Jun 2002 16:29:14 +0000 (UTC) From: david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.ukJ Subject: Re: "Recode in another language", was: RE: VAX to ia64 migration?+ Message-ID: <ado2kq$c6o$1@aquila.mdx.ac.uk>   f In article <a5vufu4h67ntl1945cq1l8cl72kf4p7mqe@4ax.com>, Steve Lionel <Steve.Lionel@intel.com> writes:F >The Intel news server doesn't contain this post (yet), so I'm sort ofD >creating this follow-up manually.  I hope it ends up in the correct
 >thread... >  >Ken Fairfield wrote:  > F >> To add to what John has said, I recently had the pleasure of givingI >> Steve Lionel, of Fortran fame and now an Intel employee, a tour of the J >> fabs here in Oregon.  I asked specifically about VMS compilers, GEM andM >> IA-64.  To answer the doubters questions (but probably not satisfy them!), M >> The Digtial, then Compaq, now Intel compiler teams is writing an interface K >> between GEM and the Intel back-end, which I believe is called "ISL" (but K >> I could very well be mistaken).  The point is the existing VMS compilers M >> which use the GEM back-end for Alpha will use an ISL back-end on IA-64 via J >> an "adapter" that makes ISL look like GEM to the compiler front-end. SoD >> all existing GEM-based VMS compilers should "just work" on IA-64. > F >It was a delight to see Ken again after all these years (in the past,C >we'd see each other at DECUS), but it seems I could have explained  >myself better...  > E >Compilers for OpenVMS Itanium will generally fall into three groups:  > E >Fortran - "Compaq (Digital) heritage" front-end (language semantics) F >hooked up to the Intel "back-end" (optimization and code generation).C >(This is a lot more work than it sounds!)  The Intel back-end team C >acquired some, but not all, of the Compaq GEM back-end developers. D >Most of the development work is done by Intel, with any new OpenVMSD >customization or features needed added by Compaq (now HP) engineersA >(active development is underway.)  General new features added to F >Fortran will be available for Itanium and not Alpha, though bug fixes) >will continue to be available for Alpha.  > D >C++ (and I think C) - This will start as the current Intel compilerE >(with feature compatibility from Compaq C/C++), using the Intel code E >generator.  Again, any OpenVMS-specific customizations to be made by  >HP. >   3 Will the intel C/C++ compilers be ported to Alpha ? K If new features are only available on the Intel compilers what happens when 4 a new version of the language standard is produced ?   F The problem is that given the performance of Itanium it will probably I be quite sometime before most users will want to move from Alpha to IA64.   I This appears to make the Alphas second class systems compared to Itanium. H ISV's will therefore get the message to move to Itanium and drop supportM for their (C,C++ or fortran written) product on Alpha. However the customers  E will not want to move to Itanium because of the lack of performance.  9 End result ISV's and customers moving to other platforms.   
 David Webb VMS and Unix team leader CCSS Middlesex University       F >Everything else - As John Reagan says, other GEM-based compilers willC >be GEM-based on OpenVMS Itanium and are being developed by HP.  We 3 >already had GEM for Itanium before the Intel deal.  > B >There's a lot of cooperation between HP and Intel - I suggest not& >getting hung up on who is doing what. >  >  > E >Please send Visual Fortran support requests to vf-support@compaq.com  >  > 
 >Steve Lionel ! >Intel/Compaq Fortran Engineering  >Software Products Division  >Intel Corporation >Nashua, NH  > / >Compaq Fortran - http://www.compaq.com/fortran L >Intel Fortran - http://developer.intel.com/software/products/compilers/f60/0 >User forum: http://www.compaq.com/fortran/forum   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 06 Jun 2002 08:59:28 +0200 9 From: Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com> " Subject: "Tru64 and OpenVMS Times"' Message-ID: <3CFF0850.7173CED7@aaa.com>    Hi and god morning !6 This morning I had the following message in my inbox :      C "A special edition of the "Times" newsletter, regarding OpenVMS and $ Tru64 in the new hp, can be found atJ http://www.compaq.com/hps/download/Tru64UNIX_OpenVMS_Times_Rev2_052202.pdf  H Within the new company, the former Compaq High Performance Systems (HPS)C group has been renamed to the Alpha Systems Division (ASD).  Future  editionsD of the newsletter will be renamed to the "hp Alpha Systems Times" to reflect  this change.  6 For more information about the exciting, new hp, visit http://www.hp.com.  F Please let us know if you no longer wish to receive this newsletter by replying> to this e-mail with the word UNSUBSCRIBE in the subject line."     Best Regards Jan-Erik Sderholm.    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 06 Jun 2002 03:21:17 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> & Subject: Re: "Tru64 and OpenVMS Times", Message-ID: <3CFF0D63.AF79783B@videotron.ca>   Jan-Erik Sderholm wrote: E > "A special edition of the "Times" newsletter, regarding OpenVMS and & > Tru64 in the new hp, can be found atL > http://www.compaq.com/hps/download/Tru64UNIX_OpenVMS_Times_Rev2_052202.pdf  L I got the same in my mailbox. The text was in microsoft format, one line per' paragraph instead of one line per line.   J Interesting that they mention that the old Compaq High Performance SystemsN Group was renamed to the Alpha Systems Division. The message I read is that HPJ doesn't intend to continue any of the Compaq High Performance Systems once Alpha is no longer available.   M Has HP announced any plans to move VMS to some other division (or get its own L division) once it runs on that IA64 thing and the Alpha Ssystems Division isL wound down ? Or is HP convinced VMS won't last that long ?  VMS is currentlyH in a division where it is the sole product that hasn't been EOLed (yet).   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 06 Jun 2002 03:41:37 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> & Subject: Re: "Tru64 and OpenVMS Times", Message-ID: <3CFF1226.FF34DE44@videotron.ca>   Jan-Erik Sderholm wrote: E > "A special edition of the "Times" newsletter, regarding OpenVMS and & > Tru64 in the new hp, can be found atL > http://www.compaq.com/hps/download/Tru64UNIX_OpenVMS_Times_Rev2_052202.pdf    Scott Stallard continues to say: ##D We will also migrate our hp OpenVMS application portfolio to Itanium; and will provide new tools and services to assist customers  who desire to migrate to HP-UX.  ##   Of interest:N ## we expect to be able to deliver the first version of HP-UX with TruClusters# ## and AdvFS in the 2004 timeframe.   O In the Q/A section, the "we'll help VMS customers migrate to HP-UX is repeated:  ##% Q For OpenVMS customers who have made ) a firm decision to move to UNIX, will you   offer a migration path to HP-UX?1 A: Yes. For our OpenVMS customers who have made a 2 decision to move to UNIX, we believe that HP-UX is4 an excellent choice, and we will work with them on a2 migration plan and provide tools and services that$ can help ensure a smooth transition. ##    I Interestingly, the parts where Stallard specified that development of VMS J would continue on Alpha (with no mention of IA64 for continued developmentL after the port) were removed, and in one of the graphics, there is text thatI says that "future releases providing continued enhancements and support". C There is also text that says that there are no plans to cancel VMS.   N I just don't understand why Stallard insisted on keeping the stupid referencesO to helping VMS customers move to HP-UX. He should have completely removed them.   M This is the third revision of the document (at least now there is text in the N file name to indicate it was revised). You'd think Stallard would have removedM the offending text and replaced it with "we will help any customer wishing to  migrate to VMS".   ------------------------------  + Date: Thu, 06 Jun 2002 10:21:28 +0100 (MET) 9 From: Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> & Subject: Re: "Tru64 and OpenVMS Times"; Message-ID: <01KILUYFDUAA984WQP@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>   " > Scott Stallard continues to say: > ##F > We will also migrate our hp OpenVMS application portfolio to Itanium= > and will provide new tools and services to assist customers ! > who desire to migrate to HP-UX.  > ##  C OK, it could be interpreted to mean migrate from VMS to HP-UX, but VH actually there are two separate predicates here.  Intentional confusion?  Q > In the Q/A section, the "we'll help VMS customers migrate to HP-UX is repeated:g   ???:   > ##' > Q For OpenVMS customers who have madeT# > a firm decision to move to UNIX,    H I repeat FOR OPENVMS CUSTOMERS WHO HAVE MADE A FIRM DECISION TO MOVE TO : UNIX.  Notice that this is repeated in the answer as well.  F No word at all about moving VMS folks to unix who don't want to. Sure,G if they want to move to unix, HP will want to move them to their unix. s Duh. C  
 > will you" > offer a migration path to HP-UX?4 >  A: Yes. For our OpenVMS customers who have made a4 > decision to move to UNIX, we believe that HP-UX is6 > an excellent choice, and we will work with them on a4 > migration plan and provide tools and services that& > can help ensure a smooth transition. > ##    E > There is also text that says that there are no plans to cancel VMS.u   Good.V  E > I just don't understand why Stallard insisted on keeping the stupid C > references to helping VMS customers move to HP-UX. He should have  > completely removed them. a  ? There is at least some improvement above, and you appear to be   misquoting him on one point.   ------------------------------  + Date: Thu, 06 Jun 2002 11:10:01 +0100 (MET)o9 From: Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>I& Subject: Re: "Tru64 and OpenVMS Times"; Message-ID: <01KILWGZOWM896WQWC@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>C  G > > "A special edition of the "Times" newsletter, regarding OpenVMS ande( > > Tru64 in the new hp, can be found atN > > http://www.compaq.com/hps/download/Tru64UNIX_OpenVMS_Times_Rev2_052202.pdf  D > Interesting that they mention that the old Compaq High PerformanceH > Systems Group was renamed to the Alpha Systems Division. The message IC > read is that HP doesn't intend to continue any of the Compaq Highw9 > Performance Systems once Alpha is no longer available. 8  F The message I read is that when ALPHA is no longer available, and the H goal of having everything on Itanium is reached, there is no point in a @ separate division for "high-performance" stuff.  At the moment, F high-performance stuff is ALPHA and other stuff is not, thus separate E divisions.  No need for this when there is just one type of hardware.e  G > Has HP announced any plans to move VMS to some other division (or get J > its own division) once it runs on that IA64 thing and the Alpha Ssystems > Division is wound down?   
 See above.  . Or is HP convinced VMS won't last that long ?   , THE OPPOSITE IS STATED IN THE SAME DOCUMENT!  I > VMS is currently in a division where it is the sole product that hasn'tg > been EOLed (yet).   I ALPHA will stop, VMS will continue on Itanium.  At the moment, VMS is on e0 ALPHA, so it makes sense to be in that division.  A Folks, read this document in full.  It is more or less what many  C doubting Thomases in this newsgroup have been crying for: a clear, nE unwavering commitment to ALPHA "at least until 2011", which is a LONGrD time in the IT industry.  It doesn't say "we will stop support afterF that".  The CLEAR message is, support is guaranteed until then, and of? course longer if needed by customers.  The commitment to VMS is2E indefinite.  This is an official HP document.  Put it on your bosses pE desk if he wants you to move off of VMS at any time, or off of ALPHA p before there is a need to.  H OK, it doesn't say "we will help customers move to VMS if they want to".F On the other hand, does a customer who wants to move to VMS need help 
 from HP?  :-)6  I Of course, one can always say "but will HP deliver on the promises?".  I .H think we should give them time.  Response to constructive criticism has  been swift and good.  D Who cares what Carly says on CNN as long as an official HP document  looks good for VMS and ALPHA?    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 06 Jun 2002 06:29:36 -0400r- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> & Subject: Re: "Tru64 and OpenVMS Times", Message-ID: <3CFF398E.6F07093E@videotron.ca>   Phillip Helbig wrote:TI > I repeat FOR OPENVMS CUSTOMERS WHO HAVE MADE A FIRM DECISION TO MOVE TOe< > UNIX.  Notice that this is repeated in the answer as well.   BUT why put this text at all ?  & Why not put something to the order of:  K "We intend to convince our VMS customers that moving to another platform iseH not necessary and that we in fact plane to move new customers from other platforms TO VMS ?   or:p  N "We intend to convince our VMS customers that under HP's management, they willN not need to think about migrating to other platforms anymore and in fact, plan! to attract new customers to VMS".o    H What Stallard is saying twice in his memo is that HP will help customersM migrate away from VMS. Now quite the message one would want to see if HP were ' really intent on preventing defections.      Consider this:J 	Stallard has 8 months to write his initial memo where HP's tru intentions were documented.J 	Then, he got a lot of heat from that big mistake and reduced it to "we'll help those who want".A 	oL On the 3rd revision of the document (the current version), shouldn't he have@ completely dropped the story about migrating from VMS to Unix ?   K When IBM bought Lotus, did it state that it would help existing Lotus NoteseK customers migrate to Profs ? NO ! When it bought it, it said it intended tohJ leverage its power and marketing might to extend Lotus's customer base andK push it down the throaths of IBM's existing customers and everyone else forV that matter.   One has to ask:   J What motives does HP have for NOT MAKING POSITIVE STATEMENTS about VMS andK insisting on continuing to say that they will help VMS customers migrate to  HP-UX ?h  L Stallard's statement is tantamount to admitting that many VMS customers haveK already made decision to move to Unix. The message: VMS is dwindling and HPe will help it dwindle.n    L Either the guy is totally incompetent or HP's motives with regards to VMS doV not include any effort to grow it and in fact expects VMS to dwindle out of existance.  L And in this 3rd revision, I have to question Marcello and Gorham's  roles inD VMS. How come they were unable to get Stallard to remove his damningK statements and replace them with statements that would show HP wants VMS togG grow and that customers had no need to think about migrating to anothert
 platform ?   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 06 Jun 2002 13:16:01 +0200a9 From: Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com>c& Subject: Re: "Tru64 and OpenVMS Times"' Message-ID: <3CFF4471.222B3E62@aaa.com>e   JF Mezei wrote:e > ( > Why not put something to the order of: > M > "We intend to convince our VMS customers that moving to another platform isdJ > not necessary and that we in fact plane to move new customers from other > platforms TO VMS ? >   G Well, it might just be as simple as the fact that that would be to lie, # and you shouldn't lie, should you ?c  B What you are hoping for, is that HP would be able to say just that *without* lying.  ) Or, don't you care if it would be a lie ?s   Jan-Erik Sderholm.    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 06 Jun 2002 15:40:55 GMTe* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>& Subject: Re: "Tru64 and OpenVMS Times"> Message-ID: <boLL8.8932$Qg.822799@bin6.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>  F "Phillip Helbig" <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> wrote in message5 news:01KILWGZOWM896WQWC@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com...    ...u  B > Folks, read this document in full.  It is more or less what manyD > doubting Thomases in this newsgroup have been crying for: a clear,G > unwavering commitment to ALPHA "at least until 2011", which is a LONGiF > time in the IT industry.  It doesn't say "we will stop support afterH > that".  The CLEAR message is, support is guaranteed until then, and ofA > course longer if needed by customers.  The commitment to VMS is:F > indefinite.  This is an official HP document.  Put it on your bossesF > desk if he wants you to move off of VMS at any time, or off of ALPHA > before there is a need to.  E If you believe you can trust such a document, I have an even strongernC 'commitment to Alpha' document (through EV10, with specific featuremC commitments in EV8) written by two senior Compaq VPs to sell you...f  F *That's* why people are demanding reassurance from the very top:  evenF that's not binding, of course, but at least it leaves the CEO somewhat! embarrassed if she reneges on it.    - bill   ------------------------------   Date: 6 Jun 2002 10:46:09 -0700r- From: jodonnell@hrblock.com (Jason O'Donnell)f Subject: (About) Open to HPh= Message-ID: <9059bf6b.0206060946.2591b69b@posting.google.com>>   All,  D Thank you for your comments and input.  However, I have noticed some7 flaming between posters.  We do not need to go there...   D It is simply my position, apparently supported by some and disagreed: with by others, that some television advertising is not anF unreasonable expense for promoting a premier product like OpenVMS thatE should be core to HP strategies.  Other companies like IBM and Oraclea have dones so.  E It is also my position that unless a significant advertising compaigncA is undertaken, the public will be unaware of this product and theSE decision makers will be concerned about its future (HP EOLing it likeq? MPE) and migrate current applications from OpenVMS or use othert* platforms for new application development.  E That being said.  I think ALL VMS lovers can agree that we would likekF HP to view OpenVMS as one of their primary platforms.  The question isC how do we get them to recognize the quality of this product and thewA financial benefits they can derive from continued development and), initiating promotions (at some level)for it?   JMOD   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 6 Jun 2002 11:49:39 -0400* From: WILLIAM WEBB <WWEBB1@email.usps.gov>+ Subject: RE: (Change topic): USofA'an coins - Message-ID: <0033000067017570000002L002*@MHS>l  / =0AI make strong efforts to avoid these threads, but occasionally succumb.n  ' Atlant, it has been my observation thati, you usually post sensibly with a fair amount+ of humor, but you're way off the mark here.f  + An objective analysis of the evidence leadso" to the conclusion that the science  - The only way that gasoline prices would reach , those levels is if the government raised the) taxes on gasoline by a factor of 5 or so.   0 And that would be a gross misuse of the power to
 levy taxes  2 **that the people have granted to the government**  : that strays from its sole lawful purpose (raising revenues? for the operation of the government) to the unlawful purpose of)1 social engineering the behavior of the citizenry.t  ' I've left this alone since 05-JUN-2000.k  8 Websearch c.o.v. using the terms "Kyoto" and "Mao suits" to see that one...   :^)    WWWebb   -----Original Message-----/ From: Info-VAX-Request@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNET % Sent: Thursday, June 06, 2002 8:20 AMlB To: Webb, William W Raleigh, NC; Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNET+ Subject: RE: [Change topic]: USofA'an coinsr     Jan-Erik S=F6derholm wrote:a  C > Hm, the *REAL* problem here, from a greenhouse gases perspective, @ > is that the pump should have counted $3 to 4 $USD / gallon :-(  ? No way! We're "Muricans!" and it says right in our Constitution < somewhere that it's not only our right, but our *OBLIGATION*@ to use up as many of the Earth's resources as possible. Besides,? if they raised the price, the decrease in consumptionwould mean.? fewer profits for oil companies (and thus, Bush, Chenney, etc.)p Can't have none of that!  > (Our Constitution used to talk about things like "Free speech"F and "elections", but since that little coup d'etat back on 2000.12.12, they've re-written it a bit.)e   Atlant=3   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 06 Jun 2002 12:52:01 -0400f2 From: Atlant Schmidt <atlantnospam@mindspring.com>+ Subject: Re: (Change topic): USofA'an coinsn. Message-ID: <3CFF9331.7610315F@mindspring.com>   WILLIAM WEBB wrote:p  / > The only way that gasoline prices would reach . > those levels is if the government raised the+ > taxes on gasoline by a factor of 5 or so.n >d2 > And that would be a gross misuse of the power to? > levy taxes **that the people have granted to the government**T< > that strays from its sole lawful purpose (raising revenuesA > for the operation of the government) to the unlawful purpose ofn3 > social engineering the behavior of the citizenry.y  : Thanks for proving my point (that 'Muricans have no social= conscience or give any thought to any greater good than their-# own individual selves. As I said...0  A > No way! We're "Muricans!" and it says right in our Constitution.> > somewhere that it's not only our right, but our *OBLIGATION*9 > to use up as many of the Earth's resources as possible.    Atlant   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 06 Jun 2002 17:13:45 GMTe* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>+ Subject: Re: (Change topic): USofA'an coinsvB Message-ID: <dLML8.146421$Kp.13845198@bin7.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>  7 "WILLIAM WEBB" <WWEBB1@email.usps.gov> wrote in message ' news:0033000067017570000002L002*@MHS...h  , I make strong efforts to avoid these threads but occasionally succumb.S  ' Atlant, it has been my observation that , you usually post sensibly with a fair amount+ of humor, but you're way off the mark here.    ***aL Nope.  I also make some effort not to get too distracted, so was glad to see) Atlant respond appropriately in my stead.h ***6  + An objective analysis of the evidence leadsn" to the conclusion that the science   ***tL Just as well you didn't finish your comment:  it doesn't appear to have been+ going in any kind of 'objective' direction.- ***-  - The only way that gasoline prices would reach , those levels is if the government raised the) taxes on gasoline by a factor of 5 or so.e   ***DJ You also don't appear to have read Atlant's response very carefully, since3 he wasn't the one who advocated raising gas prices.M ***   0 And that would be a gross misuse of the power to
 levy taxes  2 **that the people have granted to the government**  : that strays from its sole lawful purpose (raising revenues? for the operation of the government) to the unlawful purpose ofe1 social engineering the behavior of the citizenry.e   *** E Guess you're not a big fan of cigarette taxes either, then.  Too bad:vJ government already uses its discretionary control over who/what gets taxedJ and how much for the benefit (and occasional detriment) of society, and asG long as the *total* does not exceed what it needs to operate (includingsH servicing and reducing the national debt) I'm afraid your argument falls completely flat.   Better luck next time.   - bill   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 6 Jun 2002 10:30:25 +0200* From: "Zoldric Caff" <zoldric@hotmail.com>5 Subject: ? VMS 7.3.1 release date and a SAN question.t/ Message-ID: <1023352245.923506@ftp.adept.co.za>e  1 Does anyone know when VMS 7.3.1 will be released.o- Will a field test version be made available ?n  5 At present, I am doing some research on SANS and VMS.oD Does anyone know where I can find more informaction on this subject.   Thanks Zoldrich   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 06 Jun 2002 10:41:39 +0100a( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1>9 Subject: Re: ? VMS 7.3.1 release date and a SAN question. ) Message-ID: <3CFF2E53.E512E8BB@127.0.0.1>s   Zoldric Caff wrote:e > 3 > Does anyone know when VMS 7.3.1 will be released.t/ > Will a field test version be made available ?o  0 Field test is out and virtually completed AFAIK.  G July is the slated release date for 7.3-1 we've been told (We're havingu& an update from HP(Compaq) later today.  -7 > At present, I am doing some research on SANS and VMS.1F > Does anyone know where I can find more informaction on this subject.  H If you're a client of CSC all you have to do is ask your account rep :-)= We're also having an official update on this later today too!    --  ( Regards, Nic Clews CSC Computer Sciences nclews at csc dot como   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 6 Jun 2002 13:13:21 +0200$ From: "Peter Flunger" <p-i-b@gmx.at>9 Subject: Re: ? VMS 7.3.1 release date and a SAN question.t0 Message-ID: <adnhst$e81$1@newsreader1.netway.at>  * "Zoldric Caff" <zoldric@hotmail.com> wrote  7 > At present, I am doing some research on SANS and VMS.HF > Does anyone know where I can find more informaction on this subject.  / Check out the VMS related articles on the pagese; http://www.compaq.com/storage/san_index.html and following.E PeterN   ------------------------------   Date: 6 Jun 2002 10:33:36 +0100tC From: vaxinf@chclu.chemie.uni-konstanz.de (Eberhard Heuser-Hofmann) 9 Subject: A dvdwrite(r)-Program: save 4.3 GB on a DVD-R(W)i- Message-ID: <3cff1e60.0@news.uni-konstanz.de>    Hi,   F I want to release my first version of my dvdwrite program for OpenVMS.  ( Get informations via the following page:  * http://134.34.7.25/~dvdwrite/dvdwrite.html   regardsi Eberhard   ------------------------------  + Date: Thu, 06 Jun 2002 10:16:12 +0100 (MET) 9 From: Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>a$ Subject: Re: Could linux become VMS?; Message-ID: <01KILUUT9NXI984WQP@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>i  D Some might think I wrote "I was very..." but obviously this is from H Christof.  The poster quoted Christof saying my name, but left out what * I wrote, leaving only what Christof wrote.  C ----------8<-------------------------------------------------------1  4 "Brass Christof" <welcome@spam.not> wrote in message" news:3CFD4A68.552392C2@spam.not... > Phillip Helbig wrote:e > ..; > I was very disappointed after reading this BS from Linus.    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 06 Jun 2002 12:37:33 +0200 ' From: Brass Christof <welcome@spam.not> $ Subject: Re: Could linux become VMS?( Message-ID: <3CFF3B6D.ED24C47D@spam.not>  " "Scandora, Anthony (35048)" wrote: > 6 > "Brass Christof" <welcome@spam.not> wrote in message$ > news:3CFD4A68.552392C2@spam.not... > > Phillip Helbig wrote:o > > ..= > > I was very disappointed after reading this BS from Linus. < > > Before that I only knew that he had no clue about CS and> > > programming - especially OS design and implementation were? > > his weakest points. But I didn't know that he is completelya> > > stupid and a person who is only interested in being famous8 > > and using his "power" to talk about things he hasn't- > > understood or doesn't know nothing about.r > L > If he really said that, it was a stupid thing to say, but it does not makeJ > him clueless about CS and programming, or completely stupid.  I have notN > read any of the source code myself, so I can't comment on his style, but theM > kernel is a significant piece of code that works well in many environments.CB > Although I doubt that any implementation of UNIX, open source orC > proprietary, will soon catch up with some of the features we haveoL > appreciated in VMS since way back when, a lot of people run parts of theirH > businesses on Linux without worring about crashes or reboots.  You canL > justifiably disrespect the boatload of poorly documented, widely scatteredN > config files that have to be right, and the search for drivers, but once youH > get them all right, it works.  No clueless or stupid person could have > accomplished that.  I From what I know and have seen a lot of people contributed to this work. oI He never mentioned reading books about design principles, PLs and system eI architectures. I got the impression that he is great in doing but not in y	 thinking.f  G Starting that kind of project without looking around, without studying pB the subject and without decent planing is not wise or intelligent A behaviour. I have to admit that what came out is in some respect cA impressive - mainly from the viewpoint of social engineering and IA impact on the business plans of major companies. But from a mere c? technical and SW engineering point of view it is anything else N? than a good example and I'm not very impressed with the result.A   > > ...-< > > Did I mention that UNIX is shit/crap and C fits well in? > M > There is a lot not to like about it, but once properly configured, UNIX canMI > run reliably and do a lot of work, and most of what's wrong with C alsooJ > applies to BLISS and to Macro.  A lot can be said about .ascid v. .asciz3 > strings, but that's a lanugage independent issue.s  = The point is how much time you need to get it in that state. e< Having BLISS and Macro similar flaws doesn't make C better.   G > VMS advocacy would be better served by touting its advantages than by C > calling products that do a lot of useful work and the people who  + > create them perjorative and vulgar names.   @ VMS is cleanly designed while UNIX is not. This is a difference 4 which is independent of the implementation language.   Who created UNIX?M  3 > Tony Scandora, Argonne National Lab, 630-252-7541t > scandora@cmt.anl.gov   -- r7 moc dot slupofni at ssarb - please reverse the sequenceo   ------------------------------   Date: 6 Jun 2002 03:48:30 -0700d( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)$ Subject: Re: Could linux become VMS?= Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0206060248.25ce31f9@posting.google.com>i  g "Brian Tillman" <tillman_brian@notnoone.notnohow.com> wrote in message news:<3cfe702d$1@news.si.com>...r6 > >Andrew, I tried to explain this to you once before. > G > Bob, pay attention to whom you reply.  Your reply was to Phillip, nottM > Andrew, and Phillip knows the difference between VMS without and with an IP  > stack.  > that is because it was cut word for word from another post ...	 verbatim!x   ------------------------------  * Date: Thu, 6 Jun 2002 10:55:26 +0000 (UTC)* From: Osmo Kujala <kujala@tukki.cc.jyu.fi>$ Subject: Re: Could linux become VMS?, Message-ID: <adnf2u$vu7$1@mordred.cc.jyu.fi>  ( Brass Christof <welcome@spam.not> wrote:  2 > ... Could you explain why he wrote this strange  > comments about VMS?e  J Very understandable. Think Linus as a hacker type of person. (Hacker used I as positive word.) Most common hacker OS was BSD I think, so Linux had toiI be unix. Unix is very hacker friendy OS, and unix really has beauty that rF VMS doesn't. Think about simpliness of file system (file is string of J bytes.) Think about pipes. Think about powerful string manipulation tools.F Etc. It doesn't matter that unix commands are funny (like cat). Hacker will learn them quickly.  J Then think about a hacker, who has seen this beauty, going to see what VMS
 has to offer:t  4 HCS000$DUA1:[000000.MAIN.SUB1.SUB2]FILE.TXT;1  Yuck! orF HCS000$DUA1:000000.MAIN.SUB1.SUB2FILE.TXT;1 (This is how it was seenF in Finland when finnish version of ascii was used.) There is of course alternate notation:"- HCS000$DUA1:<000000.MAIN.SUB1.SUB2>FILE.TXT;1.J but we had hard time trying to get american software sellers to understand# that that notation should work too.e   MAIL> ss4 To: IN%"""someone@some.where""                 Yuck!  < How about: run program a in subdir s with parameters p1 & p2 (# s/a p1 p2 ) $ a :== $[.s]a0 $ a p1 p2                                      ?  J How about: Lets try to change feature xyz. WHAT? NO SOURCE! DONE WITH VMS! ...o   > Paul Repacholi wrote: ? >> (Still think it is a pity he did yet another unix though...)u  F To be success Linux had to offer good cooperation with some volume OS., Would you like it rather to be with Windows?- (And VMS has this cooperation problem still.)R  ? > I never understood why he didn't join other similar projects.6  B If I recall right, the story was that Linus was not happy with PC H OS:s so he decided to make one of his own. Why he didn't start with someI of the BSD-variants, I don't know, but maybe it was more fun to do Linux.eD Apparently he wasn't planning to do OS wich would conquer the world.  E I see Linux very much like Free-, Net- or xxxBSD but for some strangecH reasons Linux became a "brand" by accident. (Maybe not so strange. ThereG was a need for Linux-like and Linux was as name different from *BSD...)hG Lets hope great success for Linux! It's the only one which may threatenSD The Ugly Empire (meaning MS, I'm bad in history. Was that name used 	 before?).e  G By the way. I think all reasonable camps (VMS, unix, Linux etc.) shoulde* unite against MS and not fight each other.  H Then to the subject finally. I don't believe Linux can "BECOME VMS", butB the best features of VMS can be integrated to Linux. VMSclusteringA with distributed locking can be ported etc. but one main part of lB reliability of VMS is that there is a company that guarantees the J reliability of VMS and the supported hardware. That's possible with Linux,, but lets see how IMB will succeed with that.  5 Just thinking my thoughts with my fingers on keyboard :                                                       Osmo  F P.S. In my opinion, VMS should be taken away from the corner, where itI      has been thrown to and after some polishing be offered to the world.    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 06 Jun 2002 13:01:10 +0100p( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1>$ Subject: Re: Could linux become VMS?) Message-ID: <3CFF4F06.DE09BBC3@127.0.0.1>e   Osmo Kujala wrote: > I > By the way. I think all reasonable camps (VMS, unix, Linux etc.) should , > unite against MS and not fight each other.  % Cats and dogs, living together... :-)e  J > Then to the subject finally. I don't believe Linux can "BECOME VMS", butD > the best features of VMS can be integrated to Linux. VMSclusteringB > with distributed locking can be ported etc. but one main part ofC > reliability of VMS is that there is a company that guarantees thenL > reliability of VMS and the supported hardware. That's possible with Linux,. > but lets see how IMB will succeed with that.  E I'm not sure how possible that would be. Much of what is VMS has beeniG built in from the ground up. I guess there would have to be some fairlyeD radical kernel changes to linux to grant some of the more rock solid features of VMS.  -; Look at how the VMS kernel is being tweaked to provide UNIXA? functionality, I would guess a much simpler task. Roll on sevenA thirty-one.e  7 > Just thinking my thoughts with my fingers on keyboardt< >                                                       Osmo > H > P.S. In my opinion, VMS should be taken away from the corner, where itK >      has been thrown to and after some polishing be offered to the world.a  C I think it was analysed into the corner and marketing so far hasn'th3 broken down the walls of that corner. There's time.e  8 I'd like to see VMS as the best UNIX in the marketplace.   --  ( Regards, Nic Clews CSC Computer Sciences nclews at csc dot com    ------------------------------   Date: 6 Jun 2002 10:34:10 -0600h+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young)n$ Subject: Re: Could linux become VMS?3 Message-ID: <NJUyJFRX9qq$@eisner.encompasserve.org>e  T In article <3CFF4F06.DE09BBC3@127.0.0.1>, Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1> writes: > Osmo Kujala wrote: >> sJ >> By the way. I think all reasonable camps (VMS, unix, Linux etc.) should- >> unite against MS and not fight each other.i > ' > Cats and dogs, living together... :-)2 > K >> Then to the subject finally. I don't believe Linux can "BECOME VMS", but E >> the best features of VMS can be integrated to Linux. VMSclusteringwC >> with distributed locking can be ported etc. but one main part ofpD >> reliability of VMS is that there is a company that guarantees theM >> reliability of VMS and the supported hardware. That's possible with Linux,h/ >> but lets see how IMB will succeed with that.T > G > I'm not sure how possible that would be. Much of what is VMS has beeneI > built in from the ground up. I guess there would have to be some fairlyoF > radical kernel changes to linux to grant some of the more rock solid > features of VMS. >  s  A 	And beyond.  It isn't as if they (VMS engineering) have not beeneB 	innovating for the last 17 years (post-Distributed Lock Manager).) 	Unix has not been standing still either.-  = > Look at how the VMS kernel is being tweaked to provide UNIXtA > functionality, I would guess a much simpler task. Roll on seven:
 > thirty-one.n  < 	Exactly.  Odds of any Unix being a superset of VMS are slim? 	to none.  Leave out some major newer components, i.e. SMCI andh	 	maybe.  i  8 >> Just thinking my thoughts with my fingers on keyboard= >>                                                       Osmo  >>  I >> P.S. In my opinion, VMS should be taken away from the corner, where ittL >>      has been thrown to and after some polishing be offered to the world. > E > I think it was analysed into the corner and marketing so far hasn'tv5 > broken down the walls of that corner. There's time.t > : > I'd like to see VMS as the best UNIX in the marketplace. >   % 	Why not?  What's left after fork() ?s   				Rob    ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 6 Jun 2002 08:39:13 -0700# From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com>o$ Subject: RE: Could linux become VMS?9 Message-ID: <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJICECGFCAA.tom@kednos.com>a   >-----Original Message------3 >From: Rob Young [mailto:young_r@encompasserve.org]B& >Sent: Thursday, June 06, 2002 9:34 AM >To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com% >Subject: Re: Could linux become VMS?$ >1 >54 >In article <3CFF4F06.DE09BBC3@127.0.0.1>, Nic Clews! ><sendspamhere@127.0.0.1> writes:g >> Osmo Kujala wrote:7 >>>0K >>> By the way. I think all reasonable camps (VMS, unix, Linux etc.) shouldl. >>> unite against MS and not fight each other. >>( >> Cats and dogs, living together... :-) >>L >>> Then to the subject finally. I don't believe Linux can "BECOME VMS", butF >>> the best features of VMS can be integrated to Linux. VMSclusteringD >>> with distributed locking can be ported etc. but one main part ofE >>> reliability of VMS is that there is a company that guarantees thelB >>> reliability of VMS and the supported hardware. That's possible >with Linux,0 >>> but lets see how IMB will succeed with that. >>H >> I'm not sure how possible that would be. Much of what is VMS has beenJ >> built in from the ground up. I guess there would have to be some fairlyG >> radical kernel changes to linux to grant some of the more rock solid  >> features of VMS.  >> >cB >	And beyond.  It isn't as if they (VMS engineering) have not beenC >	innovating for the last 17 years (post-Distributed Lock Manager).s* >	Unix has not been standing still either. >e> >> Look at how the VMS kernel is being tweaked to provide UNIXB >> functionality, I would guess a much simpler task. Roll on seven >> thirty-one. >b= >	Exactly.  Odds of any Unix being a superset of VMS are slima@ >	to none.  Leave out some major newer components, i.e. SMCI and >	maybe. >r9 >>> Just thinking my thoughts with my fingers on keyboard > >>>                                                       Osmo >>>nJ >>> P.S. In my opinion, VMS should be taken away from the corner, where itB >>>      has been thrown to and after some polishing be offered to >the world.- >>F >> I think it was analysed into the corner and marketing so far hasn't6 >> broken down the walls of that corner. There's time. >>; >> I'd like to see VMS as the best UNIX in the marketplace.  >> >a& >	Why not?  What's left after fork() ?   Autoconfig, bash ...   >o >				Rob >i >---' >Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.h; >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).fA >Version: 6.0.363 / Virus Database: 201 - Release Date: 5/21/2002- >- ----& Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.: Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).@ Version: 6.0.363 / Virus Database: 201 - Release Date: 5/21/2002   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 06 Jun 2002 15:56:44 GMTw* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>$ Subject: Re: Could linux become VMS?B Message-ID: <0DLL8.148718$Gs.13964682@bin5.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>  8 "Rob Young" <young_r@encompasserve.org> wrote in message- news:NJUyJFRX9qq$@eisner.encompasserve.org... 5 > In article <3CFF4F06.DE09BBC3@127.0.0.1>, Nic Clews   <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1> writes:   ...i  < > > I'd like to see VMS as the best UNIX in the marketplace. > >e > & > Why not?  What's left after fork() ?  G Competitive default file-system performance, for one.  XFC improvementsc0 (if/when) will help, but won't do the whole job.   - bill   ------------------------------   Date: 6 Jun 2002 08:08:51 -0600r From: briggs@encompasserve.org Subject: Re: dlt tape spacer3 Message-ID: <RQmr46RBkQj8@eisner.encompasserve.org>$  [ In article <3CFEBF0E.EFD76F27@fsi.net>, "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> writes:m > Chuck Aaron wrote: >> SH >> What is the command that will provide you the available space left on >> any given DLT tape? > I > It occurs to me that DLT is not a "formatted" medium, like QIC. So, howtJ > much tape remains would depend on how much is available at BOT, how manyF > error spots lie in wait further on (impossible to predict), what theG > record/block size of the next file written will be (more/fewer IRGs),R > and so on. > F > In short, that's likely too difficult to predict with any worthwhile > degree of accuracy.   A A figure that is accurate to within even a factor of two would bet worthwhile..  E Say I'm backing up a couple gigabytes of data to tape every night.  I-D have a single tape drive (no stacker loader).  I want to load a tapeF and go home.  My boss is a cheap bastard.  I don't have a lot of tapesB and I don't have a lot of space in my tape rack.  So I want to put as much on each reel as I can.  D So.  Do I start tonight's backup on a fresh tape?  Or will it fit on the end of last night's tape?u  8 If I start fresh tapes too often, I'll run out of tapes.E If I use stale tapes too long, I'll run off the reel in the middle of1
 the night.  F Even a poor estimate for the space remaining could help me enormously.C Unfortunately, due to the vagaries of data compression, an estimateeD based on subtracting cumulative gigabytes written from starting tapeB capacity won't help much.  If that can be off by 50%, I've have toB lose 50% of my tape capacity to allow for the possibility of falseH estimates.  (I wrote 10 gigs on a 20 gig tape and now it might be full).G But if an estimate of space remaining produced by the drive hardware iss? off by 50%, I only lose tape capacity equal to one saveset.  (Is< have 2 gigs remaining and it might only hold 1 gig of data).   	John Briggs   ------------------------------   Date: 6 Jun 02 16:59:03 +0200n) From: p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture)o Subject: Re: dlt tape spaceh) Message-ID: <6Wf1bEVkPxrE@elias.decus.ch>h  T In article <RQmr46RBkQj8@eisner.encompasserve.org>, briggs@encompasserve.org writes:] > In article <3CFEBF0E.EFD76F27@fsi.net>, "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> writes:s >> Chuck Aaron wrote:  >>> I >>> What is the command that will provide you the available space left on  >>> any given DLT tape?  >> oJ >> It occurs to me that DLT is not a "formatted" medium, like QIC. So, howK >> much tape remains would depend on how much is available at BOT, how manydG >> error spots lie in wait further on (impossible to predict), what the H >> record/block size of the next file written will be (more/fewer IRGs),
 >> and so on.n >> oG >> In short, that's likely too difficult to predict with any worthwhileu >> degree of accuracy. > C > A figure that is accurate to within even a factor of two would bey
 > worthwhile.o >   K More than 10 years ago I came across a piece of tape caching software whichhN could also estimate how much tape had been used. I don't know whether it stillN exists, or even made it to Alpha, I can't even remember what it was called, nd of course, it cost money.a  F Something I wrote more recently is a bit of DCL which processes BACKUPL listings, adding up the blocks up. Note that the block sizes in the listings) show the EOF rather than ALQ block sizes.d  3 Crude, I'll admit, but it does give me a yardstick.a  L There is the space overhead of producing the BACKUP listings, but they serveI a secondary purpose - it's extremely handy to be able to search them whenn needing to restore files.   G > Say I'm backing up a couple gigabytes of data to tape every night.  InF > have a single tape drive (no stacker loader).  I want to load a tapeH > and go home.  My boss is a cheap bastard.  I don't have a lot of tapesD > and I don't have a lot of space in my tape rack.  So I want to put  > as much on each reel as I can. > F > So.  Do I start tonight's backup on a fresh tape?  Or will it fit on > the end of last night's tape?I > : > If I start fresh tapes too often, I'll run out of tapes.G > If I use stale tapes too long, I'll run off the reel in the middle of  > the night. > H > Even a poor estimate for the space remaining could help me enormously.E > Unfortunately, due to the vagaries of data compression, an estimatenF > based on subtracting cumulative gigabytes written from starting tapeD > capacity won't help much.  If that can be off by 50%, I've have toD > lose 50% of my tape capacity to allow for the possibility of falseJ > estimates.  (I wrote 10 gigs on a 20 gig tape and now it might be full).I > But if an estimate of space remaining produced by the drive hardware is A > off by 50%, I only lose tape capacity equal to one saveset.  (I-> > have 2 gigs remaining and it might only hold 1 gig of data). >   O I obviously can't advise you on how well your data will compress, as it's going N to be different from my data. I have before used a 2:1 ratio for my estimates,2 but added in a 10% pessimism factor, with success.   __
 Paul Sture SwitzerlandA   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 6 Jun 2002 11:00:26 -0400* From: WILLIAM WEBB <WWEBB1@email.usps.gov> Subject: RE: dlt tape spacel- Message-ID: <0033000067008952000002L022*@MHS>d  9 =0AIf you look at superdlt.com, you'll get some very good 7 ammunition that'll help you state your case in a manner-< that might get your boss to free up the purse strings a bit.  - DLT Tapes, pricey as they are, are dirt cheapc1 compared to the cost of reconstructing lost data.$   WWWebb   -----Original Message-----/ From: Info-VAX-Request@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNETx% Sent: Thursday, June 06, 2002 9:07 AMmB To: Webb, William W Raleigh, NC; Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNET Subject: RE: dlt tape spaces    ; In article <3CFEBF0E.EFD76F27@fsi.net>, "David J. Dachtera"h4 <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> writes: > Chuck Aaron wrote: >>H >> What is the command that will provide you the available space left o= n( >> any given DLT tape? > H > It occurs to me that DLT is not a "formatted" medium, like QIC. So, h= owH > much tape remains would depend on how much is available at BOT, how m= anyuF > error spots lie in wait further on (impossible to predict), what theH > record/block size of the next file written will be (more/fewer IRGs),=   > and so on. >0F > In short, that's likely too difficult to predict with any worthwhile > degree of accuracy.s  A A figure that is accurate to within even a factor of two would be0 worthwhile.0  E Say I'm backing up a couple gigabytes of data to tape every night.  I D have a single tape drive (no stacker loader).  I want to load a tapeF and go home.  My boss is a cheap bastard.  I don't have a lot of tapesB and I don't have a lot of space in my tape rack.  So I want to put as much on each reel as I can.  D So.  Do I start tonight's backup on a fresh tape?  Or will it fit on the end of last night's tape?O  8 If I start fresh tapes too often, I'll run out of tapes.E If I use stale tapes too long, I'll run off the reel in the middle ofi
 the night.  F Even a poor estimate for the space remaining could help me enormously.C Unfortunately, due to the vagaries of data compression, an estimate D based on subtracting cumulative gigabytes written from starting tapeB capacity won't help much.  If that can be off by 50%, I've have toB lose 50% of my tape capacity to allow for the possibility of falseH estimates.  (I wrote 10 gigs on a 20 gig tape and now it might be full)= .pH But if an estimate of space remaining produced by the drive hardware is=  ? off by 50%, I only lose tape capacity equal to one saveset.  (I < have 2 gigs remaining and it might only hold 1 gig of data).        John Briggs=d   ------------------------------  * Date: Thu, 6 Jun 2002 09:34:44 -0700 (PDT). From: Fabio Cardoso <fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br>Y Subject: ES-40 slower than AS-4100 was Re: Running Test and Production systems on differe @ Message-ID: <20020606163444.59157.qmail@web20202.mail.yahoo.com>  	 Good Luckt  , We are trying to discover why our ES-40 with/ OpenVMS 7.2-1h1 / Oracle RDB 7.0-31 and LP-8000"0 connected to a EMC storage  (Fibre Channel) with1 zero users is slower than the old machine AS-4100d+ with OpenVMS 7.2-1H1 and Oracle RDB 7.0-31.   / The last 30 days were test days... our ES-40 is , not working fine  as we expected under OVMS.5 We are planning to consolidadte 20 old VAX/AS servers 2 in 4 ES-40. The first one (mine) was the first one3 to be installed. No sucess. Compaq  and Oracle .BR  1 are researching here but until now we dont have ao/ solution. If someone here as a ES-40 / ORDB 7.0f configuration please email me !s     Regardst   FC f, --- Tom Williams <twilliams@gscc.com> wrote:2 > We're looking into migrating our environments to > ES40s, and are0 > planning on having each box contain two Galaxy > instances: one3 > production, one test. Each instance will have its0 > own sets of disks,4 > separate UAFs, etc. Assuming the instances are set > up correctly, is5 > there anything that might happen on the test systeme > (hardware or5 > software) that could affect the production system? i > I realize I'ml2 > being vague, but I don't feel comfortable having > production in ther3 > same cabinet as test.  All comments, pro and con,i > are welcome. >  > Thanks in advancef >  > Tom Williams     =====t ========================== Fbio dos Santos Cardoso OpenVMS System Manager Rio de Janeiro - Brazile fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br ==========================  2 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!?0 Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.coml   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 06 Jun 2002 12:56:29 -0400e5 From: David Beatty <David.Beatty@qwertysasasdfgh.com> Y Subject: Re: ES-40 slower than AS-4100 was Re: Running Test and Production systems on dif 2 Message-ID: <fpP=PLUwXEikWiWMbG2UcbyqWCJ0@4ax.com>  < All other things being equal, you should get much better CPU+ throughput on the ES40 vs. the 4100, so ...         1.  How much memory in each?.     2.  Number and type or processors in each?/     3.  Type of FibreChannel connector in each?      4.  Cluster or standalone?(     5.  Comparison of SYSGEN parameters?6     6.  Zoning or blocking factor issues from the EMC?   David R. Beattye  6 On Thu, 6 Jun 2002 09:34:44 -0700 (PDT), Fabio Cardoso! <fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br> wrote:s  
 >Good Luck >-- >We are trying to discover why our ES-40 with10 >OpenVMS 7.2-1h1 / Oracle RDB 7.0-31 and LP-80001 >connected to a EMC storage  (Fibre Channel) withe2 >zero users is slower than the old machine AS-4100, >with OpenVMS 7.2-1H1 and Oracle RDB 7.0-31. >l0 >The last 30 days were test days... our ES-40 is- >not working fine  as we expected under OVMS.o6 >We are planning to consolidadte 20 old VAX/AS servers3 >in 4 ES-40. The first one (mine) was the first oneg4 >to be installed. No sucess. Compaq  and Oracle .BR 2 >are researching here but until now we dont have a0 >solution. If someone here as a ES-40 / ORDB 7.0  >configuration please email me ! >t >u >Regards >a >FC - >--- Tom Williams <twilliams@gscc.com> wrote:y3 >> We're looking into migrating our environments toe >> ES40s, and are 1 >> planning on having each box contain two Galaxyh >> instances: onet4 >> production, one test. Each instance will have its >> own sets of disks,w5 >> separate UAFs, etc. Assuming the instances are set  >> up correctly, iss6 >> there anything that might happen on the test system >> (hardware oro6 >> software) that could affect the production system?  >> I realize I'm3 >> being vague, but I don't feel comfortable havinge >> production in the4 >> same cabinet as test.  All comments, pro and con, >> are welcome.a >>   >> Thanks in advance >>   >> Tom Williamsl >  >n >===== >==========================n >Fbio dos Santos Cardoso  >OpenVMS System Managere >Rio de Janeiro - Brazil >fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.brn >==========================  > 3 >__________________________________________________C >Do You Yahoo!?i1 >Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup  >http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com   ------------------------------  * Date: Thu, 6 Jun 2002 10:58:01 -0700 (PDT). From: Fabio Cardoso <fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br>Y Subject: Re: ES-40 slower than AS-4100 was Re: Running Test and Production systems on difw@ Message-ID: <20020606175801.51876.qmail@web20210.mail.yahoo.com>   Below my configurations:   AS-4100   	 4 x 5/600  6 GB SCSI KZPBA -> EMCe Standalone servera. Sysgen parameters ok. Autogened and checked by Compaq .BR SE.  1 EMC configuration: KZPBA connected direct do the 6 EMC SCSI port. 10 disks x 9,1GBT     ES-40<  	 4 x 6/833m 12 GBj KZPGA -> EMC
 Standalone. Sysgen parameters OK. Autogened and checked by Compaq .BR SE.    2 EMC configuration: KZPGA connected to a Connectrix1 FC switch in  specif port just for OVMS machines.J# 19 x 9,1 GB disks (mounted just 15)v  + PS: I am not sure about the zoning/blockingS) factor. This is configured by EMC people.1      + OBS: The ES-40 was first installed with thet/ internal disks (2 symbios 895 each of them withy! 3disks x 36 GB = total 6 x 36 GB),5 The database was in one specific controller (PKB) andt3 the applications in other (PKA). We migrated to thet EMC.4 after this first installation, had a good improvment in5 some process,but other still slower than the AS-4100.V  4 Other consideration. The programs were developed in 
 Cobol 2.4.       Regardso   FC c  3 --- David Beatty <David.Beatty@qwertysasasdfgh.com>t wrote: > 3 > All other things being equal, you should get muchd > better CPU- > throughput on the ES40 vs. the 4100, so ...u > " >     1.  How much memory in each?0 >     2.  Number and type or processors in each?1 >     3.  Type of FibreChannel connector in each?e  >     4.  Cluster or standalone?* >     5.  Comparison of SYSGEN parameters?3 >     6.  Zoning or blocking factor issues from the> > EMC? >  > David R. Beattyn > 0 > On Thu, 6 Jun 2002 09:34:44 -0700 (PDT), Fabio	 > Cardoso	# > <fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br> wrote:t >  > >Good Luck > >e/ > >We are trying to discover why our ES-40 with 2 > >OpenVMS 7.2-1h1 / Oracle RDB 7.0-31 and LP-80003 > >connected to a EMC storage  (Fibre Channel) withh4 > >zero users is slower than the old machine AS-4100. > >with OpenVMS 7.2-1H1 and Oracle RDB 7.0-31. > >s2 > >The last 30 days were test days... our ES-40 is/ > >not working fine  as we expected under OVMS.n0 > >We are planning to consolidadte 20 old VAX/AS	 > servers 5 > >in 4 ES-40. The first one (mine) was the first one 6 > >to be installed. No sucess. Compaq  and Oracle .BR 4 > >are researching here but until now we dont have a2 > >solution. If someone here as a ES-40 / ORDB 7.0" > >configuration please email me ! > >d > >e
 > >Regards > >t > >FC / > >--- Tom Williams <twilliams@gscc.com> wrote: 5 > >> We're looking into migrating our environments toe > >> ES40s, and areh3 > >> planning on having each box contain two Galaxyh > >> instances: one 6 > >> production, one test. Each instance will have its > >> own sets of disks,s3 > >> separate UAFs, etc. Assuming the instances arei > seta > >> up correctly, ise1 > >> there anything that might happen on the testV > system > >> (hardware ort/ > >> software) that could affect the production:
 > system?  > >> I realize I'm5 > >> being vague, but I don't feel comfortable having- > >> production in the6 > >> same cabinet as test.  All comments, pro and con, > >> are welcome.: > >> l > >> Thanks in advance > >> 0 > >> Tom Williams4 > >i > >r > >===== > >==========================g > >Fbio dos Santos Cardoson > >OpenVMS System Manager@ > >Rio de Janeiro - Brazil > >fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.brB > >==========================n > >h5 > >__________________________________________________M > >Do You Yahoo!?i3 > >Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup   > >http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com >      =====  ========================== Fbio dos Santos Cardoso OpenVMS System Manager Rio de Janeiro - Brazil  fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br ==========================  2 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!?0 Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.comE   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 06 Jun 2002 09:04:46 -0400 5 From: David Beatty <David.Beatty@qwertysasasdfgh.com>i  Subject: Re: ES45 and VMS  7.2-12 Message-ID: <1Vz=PEsZqJ+bbi5JgAhsYfpzcGv+@4ax.com>       Interesting ...f  ?     My Compaq rep. swears up-and-down that an ES45 will supporteD V7.2-2.  However, the image you are referring to is not on my V7.2-2D system, nor is it on the V7.2-2 CD.  It seems that the documentation/ on the Compaq website is correct and he is not.R  #     Not that it's a big suprise ...l   David R. Beatty   E On Wed, 05 Jun 2002 21:45:01 -0400, rdeininger@mindspring.com (Roberts Deininger) wrote:   > >In article <3CFD266F.34F1B8C8@pressenter.com>, Lyndon Bartels! ><lbartels@pressenter.com> wrote:  >r! >>Just a hypothetical question...i >> >>F >>My sources say that to run an ES45, I need VMS v7.3... Not a problem; >>there... I would never dream of recommending otherwise...t >> >>H >>But in case somebody asks, "what would happen if we tried to run it on >>v7.2-1?"   >i/ >Does your pre-V7.3 system disk have the image  3 >   SYS$LOADABLE_IMAGES:SYS$CPU_ROUTINES_2608.EXE ?p >t >I didn't think so.  >  >It won't boot an ES45.  Sorry.l >,D >Any ES45 shipped with VMS has at least V7.3 plus the minimum set ofH >patches to run the platform.  So it should boot with the disk that came >with it, no problems. >cK >If you want to boot it as a satellite of another node, the boot node needsrG >to be running at least V7.3 to support the ES45, even if the boot node'J >itself doesn't need the new bits.  Sometimes it is necessary to run a newK >system this way, though in the case of the ES45, you'll take a significant ? >performance hit for just about any boot system I can think of.a >iD >The core chipset in the ES45 is new, and the support code was firstF >shipped in V7.3.  This isn't a minor cosmetic change.  It's major new >stuff.-   ------------------------------   Date: 6 Jun 2002 05:51:44 -0700 ( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)G Subject: Hammer follows Itanic2 ... hits iceberg ... EV7 only solution!n= Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0206060451.2c535778@posting.google.com>a  ? Alpha had 12 years 64 bit design experience under its belt, andd> these clowns Intel and AMD come along and are finding out that@ developing a good 64 bit platform like Alpha isn't that easy ...9 looks like EV7 has nothing to worry about for a while ...I    # AMD's Hammers likely to be delayed e   Not everything is in place >& By Mike Magee, 06/06/2002 09:54:15 BST    D TALKING TO A NUMBER, and that's quite a large number, of vendors andD chipset manufacturers here at Computex, it appears that AMD might beD in some trouble delivering their up coming Hammer family in a timely way.@ Although, as we've reported earlier, you can find boards at manyF places at the Computex show, two separate sources at chipset companiesD have told us that the Clawhammer, for example, is far from ready andC may be delayed even beyond December. One said that realistically we F were talking nine months from now. If that's true, this will be a realE blow not only to people waiting for the uniprocessor systems but alsoc to AMD.   D The systems and the process appear to be far from ready, with one ofF these sources telling the INQUIRER that AMD was experiencing some realF difficulties moving from .18 micron to .13 micron technology, and that@ it needed to put quite a few elements in place before yields and8 performance were sufficiently good for volume shipments.  E Further, he said, that was also having an effect on AMD's move to themD Thoroughbred core, and if this information is accurate  and we have> little reason to doubt it  that will have a serious effect on	 delivery.a  E There are also problems with the Sledgehammer family, we are reliablybA informed by another source  this time from a company which makesp boards for the server market.   E According to her, AMD has not yet decided on some basic elements that C it needs to get in place, including chassis types for two way, four E way and other server systems. That's an important element because the D type of market it is selling into will need to know this information well in advance.  E Further, she said, and largely because of AMD's relative inexperiencelF in this marketplace, it appeared to have no clear idea of the problems2 involved. It was not, for example, supporting SSI.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 06 Jun 2002 08:26:43 +01005( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1>( Subject: Re: Help tuning NISCS_MAX_PKTSZ) Message-ID: <3CFF0EB3.44640A3C@127.0.0.1>g   David Harrold wrote: > F > I am looking for some more information on tuning the NISCS_MAX_PKTSZ > parameter. > N > Our application vendor is suggesting that we set it to 1498 because our onlyF > cluster NI interconnect is 10/100 Ethernet.  But reading the articleO > "[OpenVMS] A Discussion Of How VMScluster Members Communicate" in DSNLink, itmJ > appears to me that leaving NISCS_MAX_PKTSZ at the default (8192) is fineM > and the cluster communication subsystem will only send packets of 1498 over- > the Ethernet links.  > M > Our contact at the vender suggests that a lock remaster (for instance) willuN > generate 8192 byte packets which must be broken up into 1498 byte packets toN > send across the Ethernet connection.  If this is true, I agree that changingM > NISCS_MAX_PKTSZ would be a good thing, but the article above seems to states > that this is not the case.  = Fascinating. This is where the world of cluster communicationo: intermingles with networking, or notworking as I sometimesC affectionately know it as. I am NOT going to attempt to explain the > differences between networking types, but I may touch on them.  E Ethernet is CSMACD. Single bit of wire. At a certain bit rate, only a<H certain amount of data can be transmitted, so the packet size is limitedA to prevent one station hogging the wire too long for a particularpE transfer. Bigger bit rates mean more can be transferred in one go, so B the packet size can be increased. For large data transfers, biggerA packet or transfer lump sizes are generally more efficient. [Some 9 network topologies, e.g. ATM, this is of no consequence].(  ! [I hope I get my Bs and bs right]e  . Frame size =_- buffer size === NISCS_MAX_PKTSZ  9 1498 is the default data size (i.e. less CRC) for 10 Mbs.k  2 The DSNlink article is correct for 100 Mbs (4468).  F This should raise a question: What happens if you have two NICs one at 10 Mb, one at 100 Mb.i  C Well the software driver around the 10 Mb can only drive it at 1498hF bytes, so it drops to that. The articles does say that in a roundabout way.  E For the 100 Mbs. If the NISCS_MAX_PKTSZ was 1498, then it would limitnH the 'data bursts' on that LAN to so many bytes before releasing the lineB so to speak. You are correct that you'd need 5 full packets, and aF partial packet, in other words 6 data 'sends' on the line to send whatF one 8192 byte packet could hold. This is a trade off (as ever) 6 timesH it has to do a Carrier Sense, 6 more chances that a Collision Detect mayH occur, however in the Multiple Access world, other network stations haveF more opportunity NOT to get a Collision Detect due to the rough law ofC averages. Basically the packet is in the firing line for less time.h  A The other trade off to consider is the amount of 'processing' andpD handling time, 6 times as opposed to just once. You are also correctH that large lumps of data have to be broken down, and this in itself will. add to the total time to the network transfer.  F Hopefully the network aspect of things is now in some perspective, andH I've used a tiny bit of artistic license in order not to confuse matters further.  H In the world of clusters, you actually have three values to consider forD this parameter! This is properly documented (amazingly) in the Alpha; Galaxy Guide "Communicating with Shared Memory - The SMCI".e  C 8192 is the maximum, but this does not actually sit near any properaC boundaries for networking, however in the same way 10Mb is handled,hE packets simply are sent at their maximum supported size per protocol.s  G Dig deeper into DSNlink and check FDDI (100Mb) values, you already know4A the 10Mb setting, and the Galaxy guide provides the missing link:a   10Mb = 1498y 100Mb = 4468 SMCI (xxxxxMb) = 7360   D It's probably that Gigabit drivers also need this higher setting, orF more. I'm not certain on the ins and out of that, but if anyone wishes to elucidate...s  F In SYSGEN, a HELP on that parameter tells you how that setting is used@ in the ethernet world. Yet another DSNlink article discusses how ethernet frames are made up.  E OK so you have the numbers, and the perhaps why, now a closer look atk the impact on the cluster.  G Lock remastering has changed for VMS 7.3. Prior to this, when lock dataaH was moved from one node to another, these locks would actually go one byH one! Not terribly efficient, but in most circumstances not a huge issue,F unless you've millions of locks, but even then there's ways around it. Not being discussed here.o  H VMS 7.3 now 'blocks' the locks, and sends effectively a large group at aC time. This of course fills up those bigger packets I mentioned. SCS F communication is quite efficient, so a good proportion is dealing withD sending data, but the bigger the packet size, the more data and moreG efficient. This sort of equals quicker by the clock on the wall. [Therei' are other changes to the lock manager].=  H So your application vendor is correct, providing the operating system isH at this version, and your application is taking advantage of it. Also itH is dependent on application, what is it doing. We'd kinda hope that your@ systems are not constantly remastering, that your LOCKDIRWT, PE1G parameters are correctly set (preferably default unless you can give megF a damn good reason!) and that your application vendor, if they seem toA know so much about lock remastering, have coded their applicationcH correctly so that the NL lock is used to maintain the presence of a lockG tree and its associated activity. This helps the locking systems behave 
 correctly.  B [Take the case of an application which keeps raising and releasingC locks, which are both directory managed and initially mastered on aoD remote node, yet used almost exclusively on this local node, yet notF held long enough for the effort of remastering to the local node to be of any use].   N > Any further information or documents or pointers to manuals would be greatly > appreciated.  A I may have gone a little deeper than you expected, but I hope itseF explained it for you. As ever, the final decision for those parametersF is still left to you, without examining your systems in detail I can'tD give you the answer, but hopefully you have enough to make the right	 decision.S   -- s( Regards, Nic Clews CSC Computer Sciences nclews at csc dot coms   ------------------------------   Date: 6 JUN 2002 14:04:19 GMTu4 From: karcher@thuria.waisman.wisc.edu (Carl Karcher)( Subject: Re: Help tuning NISCS_MAX_PKTSZ5 Message-ID: <6JUN02.14041999@thuria.waisman.wisc.edu>l  @ In a previous article, David Harrold <DHarrold@wi.rr.com> wrote:  J ->appears to me that leaving NISCS_MAX_PKTSZ at the default (8192) is fineM ->and the cluster communication subsystem will only send packets of 1498 over  ->the Ethernet links.f  G Note that the default value for VMS 7.2-1 (and earlier IIRC) is 1498. Ir% assume you're talking about 7.3 here.t   --G -- Carl Karcher, Waisman Computing Services, Waisman Center, UW-Madisone; --                      karcher.dontspam@waisman.wisc.edu      ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 06 Jun 2002 17:04:56 +0200s- From: Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@Free.fr>aB Subject: How to put my VMS box on a BroadBand Connection (part II)' Message-ID: <3CFF7A19.AA61CEB5@Free.fr>s  O Remember, it was around the 17th of May. We had on c.o.v a technical chat aboutyO how to connect a VMS/Alpha box (PWS600au 7.3 TCP/IP 5.1) to the Internet via an_ ADSL modem._  J I spent a few nites without success, so I followed an advice and installedP IPNetRouter on my gateway, an iMac running OS 9.2.2. The machines are linked via a switch Netgear FS105.)  & The ADSL modem (EICON DIVA 2430) says:  ' Adresse IP Internet   : 	212.129.51.991& Masque IP Internet    :	255.255.255.0$ Adresse DNS principale:	213.36.80.1$ Adresse DNS secondaire:	213.36.80.1% Adresse IP locale     : 	192.168.1.14' Masque IP local       : 	255.255.255.0M  ' IPNetRouter (automatic) config file is:k   ! IPNetRouter 1.6.6 PPC  #forwardingAutomatic #remainConnected #enableLocalNATc #DNSForwarding #LimitMTUForPPPoE F +interface\Ethernet\gmac0\192.168.1.2\255.255.255.0\masquerading\dhcp\8 +interface\Ethernet\gmac0:1\192.168.187.1\255.255.255.0\) +route\Direct\192.168.1.0/24\192.168.1.2\t- +route\Direct\192.168.187.0/24\192.168.187.1\f( +route\Direct\224.0.0.0/4\192.168.187.1\& +route\Direct\224.0.0.0/4\192.168.1.2\) +route\Direct\169.254.0.0/16\192.168.1.2\f+ +route\Default-Gateway\0.0.0.0\192.168.1.1\w #end   Alpha TCP/IP config is:e DTL02> tcpip sh rout  $                              DYNAMIC  < Type           Destination                           Gateway  9 AN    0.0.0.0                               192.168.187.1h5 AH    127.0.0.1                             127.0.0.1r9 AN    192.168.187.0/24                      192.168.187.2-9 AH    192.168.187.2                         192.168.187.2i   DTL02> tcpip sh name   BIND Resolver Parameters    Local domain: tiscali.frs    Systemt     State:     Started, Enabledb     Transport: UDP   Domain:    tiscali.frU   Retry:     4   Timeout:   4   Servers:    192.168.1.1    Path:       No values defined     Process     State:     Enabled     Transport:	   Domain:    Retry:
   Timeout:
   Servers:   Path:    DTL02> tcpip sh conf inter    Interface: LO0Y?    IP_Addr: 127.0.0.1         NETWRK: 255.0.0.0         BRDCST:     Interface: WE0 O    IP_Addr: 192.168.187.2     NETWRK: 255.255.255.0     BRDCST: 192.168.187.255	  L I can TELNET to the Alpha box (where these data come from), I can FTP, but I cannot "exit" the box:   DTL02> tcpip ping 213.36.80.1a- PING 213.36.80.1 (213.36.80.1): 56 data bytesM  # ----213.36.80.1 PING Statistics----r; 4 packets transmitted, 0 packets received, 100% packet lossM! %SYSTEM-F-TIMEOUT, device timeout   P Any address outside the LAN is unreachable. Without IPNetRouter, I had "no route4 to host", with it, I just have nothing but timeouts.   Who knows the magic?   Thanks,    D.  S PS franais: excusez le cross post mais a fait un mois que je merde sur ce truc...O   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 06 Jun 2002 08:29:57 -0700o+ From: "Barry Treahy, Jr." <Treahy@mmaz.com>cF Subject: Re: How to put my VMS box on a BroadBand Connection (part II)' Message-ID: <3CFF7FF5.3050309@mmaz.com>o   Didier Morandi wrote:i  J >Remember, it was around the 17th of May. We had on c.o.v a technical cha= t aboutbJ >how to connect a VMS/Alpha box (PWS600au 7.3 TCP/IP 5.1) to the Internet=  via ane >ADSL modem. > J >I spent a few nites without success, so I followed an advice and install= edJ >IPNetRouter on my gateway, an iMac running OS 9.2.2. The machines are li= nked via >a switch Netgear FS105. >>' >The ADSL modem (EICON DIVA 2430) says:o > ( >Adresse IP Internet    : 	212.129.51.99' >Masque IP Internet     :	255.255.255.0n > J it is unlikely that your ISP has provided you a Class C subnet for your=20, IP, so you might want to check the /24 mask.  % >Adresse DNS principale :	213.36.80.1i% >Adresse DNS secondaire :	213.36.80.1=& >Adresse IP locale      : 	192.168.1.1( >Masque IP local        : 	255.255.255.0 > ( >IPNetRouter (automatic) config file is: >= >! IPNetRouter 1.6.6 PPC >#forwardingAutomatic_ >#remainConnected_ >#enableLocalNAT >#DNSForwardingi >#LimitMTUForPPPoEG >+interface\Ethernet\gmac0\192.168.1.2\255.255.255.0\masquerading\dhcp\ 9 >+interface\Ethernet\gmac0:1\192.168.187.1\255.255.255.0\r* >+route\Direct\192.168.1.0/24\192.168.1.2\. >+route\Direct\192.168.187.0/24\192.168.187.1\) >+route\Direct\224.0.0.0/4\192.168.187.1\_' >+route\Direct\224.0.0.0/4\192.168.1.2\?* >+route\Direct\169.254.0.0/16\192.168.1.2\, >+route\Default-Gateway\0.0.0.0\192.168.1.1\ >#end- >- >Alpha TCP/IP config is: >DTL02> tcpip sh rout  >0% >                             DYNAMICe >s= >Type           Destination                           Gateway1 >P: >AN    0.0.0.0                               192.168.187.1 > H Your default gateway for the router should be the IP gateway for your=20* ISP, not the NIC side which is being NAT'd  I I know nothing at your particular router, but these two parameters are=20a certainly questionable...    Barryt  6 >AH    127.0.0.1                             127.0.0.1: >AN    192.168.187.0/24                      192.168.187.2: >AH    192.168.187.2                         192.168.187.2 >i >DTL02> tcpip sh nam >e >BIND Resolver Parameterss >< > Local domain: tiscali.fr >  > System >a >  State:     Started, Enabled >  >  Transport: UDPa >  Domain:    tiscali.fr >  Retry:     4p >  Timeout:   4. >  Servers:    192.168.1.1  >  Path:       No values defined > 	 > Processe >y >  State:     Enablede >f
 >  Transport:n
 >  Domain:	 >  Retry:i >  Timeout:p >  Servers:m >  Path: >e >DTL02> tcpip sh conf interA >: > Interface: LO0@ >   IP_Addr: 127.0.0.1         NETWRK: 255.0.0.0         BRDCST: >r > Interface: WE0J >   IP_Addr: 192.168.187.2     NETWRK: 255.255.255.0     BRDCST: 192.168.= 187.255t >mJ >I can TELNET to the Alpha box (where these data come from), I can FTP, b= ut I >cannot "exit" the box:l >e >DTL02> tcpip ping 213.36.80.1. >PING 213.36.80.1 (213.36.80.1): 56 data bytes > $ >----213.36.80.1 PING Statistics----< >4 packets transmitted, 0 packets received, 100% packet loss" >%SYSTEM-F-TIMEOUT, device timeout >aJ >Any address outside the LAN is unreachable. Without IPNetRouter, I had "= no route5 >to host", with it, I just have nothing but timeouts.4 >s >Who knows the magic?o >w >Thanks, >i >D.i >7J >PS fran=E7ais: excusez le cross post mais =E7a fait un mois que je merde=  sur ce truc...- >- >  > =20  >u   --=20:  B Barry Treahy, Jr  *  Midwest Microwave  *  Vice President & CIO=20  A E-mail: Treahy@mmaz.com * Phone: 480/314-1320 * FAX: 480/661-7028D   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 06 Jun 2002 17:53:15 +02006- From: Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@Free.fr>hF Subject: Re: How to put my VMS box on a BroadBand Connection (part II)' Message-ID: <3CFF856B.B5DFF308@Free.fr>t   "Barry Treahy, Jr." wrote:  ) > >The ADSL modem (EICON DIVA 2430) says:  > >'/ > >Adresse IP Internet    :       212.129.51.99g/ > >Masque IP Internet     :       255.255.255.05 > > I > it is unlikely that your ISP has provided you a Class C subnet for yourh. > IP, so you might want to check the /24 mask.  3 These data are a cut/paste from the router display.   ? > >Type           Destination                           Gateway  > >e< > >AN    0.0.0.0                               192.168.187.1 > >pG > Your default gateway for the router should be the IP gateway for your , > ISP, not the NIC side which is being NAT'd   How can I know it?   D.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 06 Jun 2002 08:57:31 -0700u+ From: "Barry Treahy, Jr." <Treahy@mmaz.com>lF Subject: Re: How to put my VMS box on a BroadBand Connection (part II)' Message-ID: <3CFF866B.4040407@mmaz.com>e  & --------------0609070601070809020600099 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=floweds Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bitc   Didier Morandi wrote:    >"Barry Treahy, Jr." wrote:e >t >  p >e) >>>The ADSL modem (EICON DIVA 2430) says:i >>> / >>>Adresse IP Internet    :       212.129.51.99h/ >>>Masque IP Internet     :       255.255.255.0m >>>r	 >>>      r >>>dI >>it is unlikely that your ISP has provided you a Class C subnet for your . >>IP, so you might want to check the /24 mask. >>     >> >o4 >These data are a cut/paste from the router display. >  >  m >b? >>>Type           Destination                           Gatewayf >>>e< >>>AN    0.0.0.0                               192.168.187.1 >>>m	 >>>      m >>>tG >>Your default gateway for the router should be the IP gateway for your , >>ISP, not the NIC side which is being NAT'd >>     >>G I understand but you stated that you could not pass traffic out to the iI Internet which would support that they are probably not correct and that MF you should contact your ISP for correct values.  As for how to change F them, I know thing of that router, so I can't help there but your ISP  should be able to...   Barry-   >How can I know it?0 >u >D.2 >: >4 >  0 >    -- i  @ Barry Treahy, Jr  *  Midwest Microwave  *  Vice President & CIO   A E-mail: Treahy@mmaz.com * Phone: 480/314-1320 * FAX: 480/661-7028r      & --------------060907060107080902060009) Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-asciie Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bitr  ? <!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN">I <html> <head>I   <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html;charset=ISO-8859-1">w   <title></title>  </head>t <body> Didier Morandi wrote:<br> < <blockquote type="cite" cite="mid3CFF856B.B5DFF308@Free.fr">)   <pre wrap="">"Barry Treahy, Jr." wrote:l     </pre>   <blockquote type="cite">     <blockquote type="cite">9       <pre wrap="">The ADSL modem (EICON DIVA 2430) says:a  , Adresse IP Internet    :       212.129.51.99, Masque IP Internet     :       255.255.255.0         </pre>     </blockquote>.X     <pre wrap="">it is unlikely that your ISP has provided you a Class C subnet for your, IP, so you might want to check the /24 mask.
     </pre>   </blockquote>.   <pre wrap=""><!---->3 These data are a cut/paste from the router display.i     </pre>   <blockquote type="cite">     <blockquote type="cite">O       <pre wrap="">Type           Destination                           Gateway   9 AN    0.0.0.0                               192.168.187.1a         </pre>     </blockquote> V     <pre wrap="">Your default gateway for the router should be the IP gateway for your* ISP, not the NIC side which is being NAT'd
     </pre>   </blockquote>m   <pre wrap=""><!----></pre>
 </blockquote>hO I understand but you stated that you could not pass traffic out to the InternetfJ which would support that they are probably not correct and that you shouldR contact your ISP for correct values. &nbsp;As for how to change them, I know thingK of that router, so I can't help there but your ISP should be able to...<br>  <br>	 Barry<br>M <br>< <blockquote type="cite" cite="mid3CFF856B.B5DFF308@Free.fr">   <pre wrap="">s How can I know it?   D.       </pre>
 </blockquote>o <br>2 <pre class="moz-signature" cols="$mailwrapcol">--   D Barry Treahy, Jr  *  Midwest Microwave  *  Vice President &amp; CIO    E-mail: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:Treahy@mmaz.com">Treahy@mmaz.com</a> * Phone: 480/314-1320 * FAX: 480/661-7028</pre>  <br> </body>r </html>n  ( --------------060907060107080902060009--   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 6 Jun 2002 12:15:23 -0400% From: "John Vottero" <John@mvpsi.com>1F Subject: Re: How to put my VMS box on a BroadBand Connection (part II)/ Message-ID: <ufv2kt3aicm298@news.supernews.com>l  L Can you get to the Internet from the Mac?  Everything looks reasonable to meK but I've never used an EICON router or IPNetRouter so I can't say for sure.a My guess would be:  L add "masquerading\" to the 192.168.187.0 interface definition.  I think that@ will enable masquerading (aka NAT) for the 192.168.187.0 subnet.  : "Didier Morandi" <Didier.Morandi@Free.fr> wrote in message! news:3CFF7A19.AA61CEB5@Free.fr...,K > Remember, it was around the 17th of May. We had on c.o.v a technical chato about J > how to connect a VMS/Alpha box (PWS600au 7.3 TCP/IP 5.1) to the Internet via an
 > ADSL modem.n >iL > I spent a few nites without success, so I followed an advice and installedG > IPNetRouter on my gateway, an iMac running OS 9.2.2. The machines ared
 linked via > a switch Netgear FS105.a >G( > The ADSL modem (EICON DIVA 2430) says: >S( > Adresse IP Internet    : 212.129.51.99( > Masque IP Internet     : 255.255.255.0& > Adresse DNS principale : 213.36.80.1& > Adresse DNS secondaire : 213.36.80.1% > Adresse IP locale     : 192.168.1.1z( > Masque IP local        : 255.255.255.0 >n) > IPNetRouter (automatic) config file is:o >  > ! IPNetRouter 1.6.6 PPCa > #forwardingAutomatic > #remainConnected > #enableLocalNAT  > #DNSForwarding > #LimitMTUForPPPoEoH > +interface\Ethernet\gmac0\192.168.1.2\255.255.255.0\masquerading\dhcp\: > +interface\Ethernet\gmac0:1\192.168.187.1\255.255.255.0\+ > +route\Direct\192.168.1.0/24\192.168.1.2\ / > +route\Direct\192.168.187.0/24\192.168.187.1\t* > +route\Direct\224.0.0.0/4\192.168.187.1\( > +route\Direct\224.0.0.0/4\192.168.1.2\+ > +route\Direct\169.254.0.0/16\192.168.1.2\e- > +route\Default-Gateway\0.0.0.0\192.168.1.1\  > #end >. > Alpha TCP/IP config is:a > DTL02> tcpip sh rout >t& >                              DYNAMIC >d> > Type           Destination                           Gateway >l; > AN    0.0.0.0                               192.168.187.1e7 > AH    127.0.0.1                             127.0.0.1r; > AN    192.168.187.0/24                      192.168.187.2t; > AH    192.168.187.2                         192.168.187.2s >  > DTL02> tcpip sh nami >r > BIND Resolver Parameters >m >  Local domain: tiscali.fr  >a	 >  Systemr >n >   State:     Started, Enabledu >h >   Transport: UDP >   Domain:    tiscali.fre >   Retry:     4 >   Timeout:   4 >   Servers:    192.168.1.1.! >   Path:       No values definedl > 
 >  Process >o >   State:     Enabled >  >   Transport: >   Domain:i
 >   Retry: >   Timeout: >   Servers:	 >   Path:  >t > DTL02> tcpip sh conf inter >s >  Interface: LO0cA >    IP_Addr: 127.0.0.1         NETWRK: 255.0.0.0         BRDCST:  >s >  Interface: WE0 A >    IP_Addr: 192.168.187.2     NETWRK: 255.255.255.0     BRDCST:d 192.168.187.255  > L > I can TELNET to the Alpha box (where these data come from), I can FTP, but I  > cannot "exit" the box: >t > DTL02> tcpip ping 213.36.80.1o/ > PING 213.36.80.1 (213.36.80.1): 56 data bytest > % > ----213.36.80.1 PING Statistics----s= > 4 packets transmitted, 0 packets received, 100% packet lossc# > %SYSTEM-F-TIMEOUT, device timeouti >wL > Any address outside the LAN is unreachable. Without IPNetRouter, I had "no routel6 > to host", with it, I just have nothing but timeouts. >o > Who knows the magic? > 	 > Thanks,n >h > D. >eJ > PS franais: excusez le cross post mais a fait un mois que je merde sur
 ce truc...   ------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2002 10:11:25 -07001 From: Luik Linda-p14175 <Linda.Luik@motorola.com>b, Subject: RE: IT world becoming like lawyers?K Message-ID: <BB0DDAB02564D611BB5600D0B7B9970A12143D@az33exm36.corp.mot.com>n  D Welcome to the world of computers managed by business professionals!   Lindan   -----Original Message-----6 From: bob@instantwhip.com [mailto:bob@instantwhip.com]& Sent: Wednesday, June 05, 2002 9:03 AM To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com ( Subject: IT world becoming like lawyers?    < how could any IT/management/CEO person fall for the lies and8 deception of the windoze/unix/linux world ... they buy a; lousy product with no security, and lots of bugs to fix ....8 this is all couterproductive to their business, spending9 all that money buying 80,000 windoze boxes or 80,000 chipn7 sparc boxes, paying IT people big money to spend 80% of>9 their time patching ... paying tons of money for security ; products that on VMS would be unnecessary ... having to runb7 80,000 servers instead of a single Alpha VMS cluster orS: Galaxy ... disaster solutions when a simple vms cluster in7 two different locations would work the best ... it just-9 boggles the mind how stupid people are actually becoming!r   ------------------------------  * Date: Thu, 6 Jun 2002 09:13:40 -0700 (PDT). From: Fabio Cardoso <fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br>, Subject: RE: IT world becoming like lawyers?@ Message-ID: <20020606161340.29176.qmail@web20210.mail.yahoo.com>  3 Welcome to the world which create virtual companies)0 with virtual products, with high amount of stock5 options to managers/CEOs/CIOs without heart to fire ad4 lot of people because the company didnt match the $$ targets.  4 I am not one of those which think a company is just 5 to make money. When you have 100 or 1000 people underI3 your responsability, to keep the company working is:. everything. If a company fails in one semester nowadays$ it is sold or become in bankrupcy...     Regards     FC 9            6 --- Luik Linda-p14175 <Linda.Luik@motorola.com> wrote:. > Welcome to the world of computers managed by > business professionals!t >  > Lindan >  > -----Original Message----- > From: bob@instantwhip.comi > [mailto:bob@instantwhip.com]( > Sent: Wednesday, June 05, 2002 9:03 AM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com6* > Subject: IT world becoming like lawyers? >  > 5 > how could any IT/management/CEO person fall for the1
 > lies and4 > deception of the windoze/unix/linux world ... they > buy a\5 > lousy product with no security, and lots of bugs tof	 > fix ...f1 > this is all couterproductive to their business,C
 > spending6 > all that money buying 80,000 windoze boxes or 80,000 > chip6 > sparc boxes, paying IT people big money to spend 80% > of2 > their time patching ... paying tons of money for
 > security6 > products that on VMS would be unnecessary ... having > to run6 > 80,000 servers instead of a single Alpha VMS cluster > or1 > Galaxy ... disaster solutions when a simple vms  > cluster in4 > two different locations would work the best ... it > just1 > boggles the mind how stupid people are actually 	 becoming!r     =====o ========================== Fbio dos Santos Cardoso OpenVMS System Manager Rio de Janeiro - Brazile fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br ==========================  2 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!?0 Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.comK   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 06 Jun 2002 16:25:46 GMT.# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>T, Subject: Re: IT world becoming like lawyers?I Message-ID: <e2ML8.233218$t8_.61786@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>:  E When a nameless computer company publishes a roadmap or two, and thattC roadmap is pulled out from under your company after having investedeD considerable time, effort, and money on the basis of the roadmap....  B Sounds like a Texas/Mississippi lawyer or two might have a go at aB class-action lawsuit against the nameless computer company and its" successors. Treble damages anyone?      > "Luik Linda-p14175" <Linda.Luik@motorola.com> wrote in messageE news:BB0DDAB02564D611BB5600D0B7B9970A12143D@az33exm36.corp.mot.com...eF > Welcome to the world of computers managed by business professionals! >c > Lindaj >: > -----Original Message-----8 > From: bob@instantwhip.com [mailto:bob@instantwhip.com]( > Sent: Wednesday, June 05, 2002 9:03 AM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comt* > Subject: IT world becoming like lawyers? >= > > > how could any IT/management/CEO person fall for the lies and: > deception of the windoze/unix/linux world ... they buy a= > lousy product with no security, and lots of bugs to fix ... : > this is all couterproductive to their business, spending; > all that money buying 80,000 windoze boxes or 80,000 chipT9 > sparc boxes, paying IT people big money to spend 80% ofe; > their time patching ... paying tons of money for security5= > products that on VMS would be unnecessary ... having to run 9 > 80,000 servers instead of a single Alpha VMS cluster or4< > Galaxy ... disaster solutions when a simple vms cluster in9 > two different locations would work the best ... it just1; > boggles the mind how stupid people are actually becoming!o   ------------------------------   Date: 6 Jun 2002 05:47:44 -0700w( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)C Subject: Itanium problems again ... EV8 looking like a replacement!n= Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0206060447.5143fe29@posting.google.com>f  = looks like itanic2 hit another iceberg ... means EV8 steppingt; into the picture to save the day looking better and better!\     Intel late again with Itanic 0  / It's sort of a tradition for the last 10 years 14 By Mike Magee in Old Taipei, 06/06/2002 13:11:15 BST    A IN ALL THE EXCITEMENT that is Old Taipei, you may have missed theP? story we wrote the other day saying Intel's own Itanic box, the  "Bandera", is released in July. ? This means that the Itanium 2 has slipped again, but the Itanic0E platform from Intel has a solid 10 year tradition of not making it tow market on time.   E Roadmaps we've perused for the last 10 months show that only partnersgA can handle the complexities of the Itanium 2, formerly called thea	 McKinley.e  E It was supposed to ship in June, so the confession by an Intel rep at 3 its Computex booth is another admission of failure.   B And anyway, Intel won't sell it like you might buy a box of PersilF anyway  it appears to have started not so much to sell Itanics but toE make "contracts" with buyers that entail a little bit more than that.   F We understand that the reason why it wasn't running on the Intel standB is something to do with the fact that it's not quite ready to run.  E The problems are quite different from the AMD slippage, and connected 2 to other elements that are not quite in place yet.  = Such as the contracts Intel will make its customers take out.   B Intel's "Bandera" is not so much a reference platform but more the? platform, because of the kind of problems that a near mainframeN "solution" faces.0  F The partners, we understand, are bound by the rules of this particularB slippage game not to discuss the terms and conditions with anyone, under pain of errr, pain.  A Intel certainly doesn't want HP shipping its own Itanic before it2 supplies its own.t  A That's macroprocessing. (Intel copyrights, trademarks, reserved).o   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 06 Jun 2002 15:02:23 GMTi2 From: "Sue Skonetski" <susan.skonetski@compaq.com>/ Subject: just got this - OpenVMS faxing utilityi2 Message-ID: <3QKL8.12$z11.438444@news.cpqcorp.net>  $  COMPUFAX USERS SAVE TIME and MONEY!K  CompuFax  is the fully supported OpenVMS faxing utility that allows you to G fax directly from your VTs and PCs using your OpenVMS system as the faxsK server. It is reliable and robust under heavy traffic conditions as well as10 easy to use -- even for the occasional fax user.  G  ". . . Over the next 6 months we faxed over 30,000 documents. From all.H accounting we never missed a single one due to the software! I have onlyI praise for the product, as well as the excellent support we received. The L product was easy to install and use, and I would recommend it to any company that has the need."g  J Systems Manager - Customer Service Division, an Information Services Corp.  A  "A simple and quick installation and we replaced manually faxingmI information that required over ten hours by hand with a totally automatedtK system. Also, the actual faxing takes place during the night, reducing longaE distance telephone costs. The cost and time savings for just this one L project justified CompuFax, not to mention the other uses and benefits since its installation."  3 System Manager - A Major Freight Forwarding Company   I  "After checking the cost of mail, forms, envelopes and labor, our annualr) savings will be approximately $25,000.00"   " - VMS User at Pawtucket Fasteners.  # Download Free 30-Day Trial Versionsg   www.networkingdynamics.com   or call 1-800-ASK-NDC1   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 06 Jun 2002 16:01:40 +0100o( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1>3 Subject: Re: just got this - OpenVMS faxing utilitye) Message-ID: <3CFF7954.7B3CB88C@127.0.0.1>V   Sue Skonetski wrote: > & >  COMPUFAX USERS SAVE TIME and MONEY!  ! Not the only VMS faxing solution!   - http://www.gold-fax.com/products/prodmain.htmn   -- t( Regards, Nic Clews CSC Computer Sciences nclews at csc dot como   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 06 Jun 2002 19:21:40 +0400u4 From: "Ruslan R. Laishev" <Laishev@SMTP.DeltaTel.RU>3 Subject: Re: just got this - OpenVMS faxing utilitye0 Message-ID: <3CFF7E04.3960FF43@SMTP.DeltaTel.RU>   Hi !  9 	This SW still working only with exotic Multitech modems?y     Sue Skonetski wrote: > & >  COMPUFAX USERS SAVE TIME and MONEY! 	...   -- s Cheers,TF +OpenVMS [Sys|Net] HardWorker .......................................+E  Russia,Delta Telecom Inc,                    Cel:  +7 (901) 971-3222oE  191119,St.Petersburg,Transportny per. 3                     116-3222AF +http://starlet.deltatel.ru ................. SysMan rides HailStorm +   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 06 Jun 2002 08:55:02 -07000+ From: "Barry Treahy, Jr." <Treahy@mmaz.com> 3 Subject: Re: just got this - OpenVMS faxing utility ' Message-ID: <3CFF85D6.3000602@mmaz.com>4  & --------------0305010604070900070004097 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=KOI8-R; format=flowedh Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bitr   Ruslan R. Laishev wrote:   >Hi !t >P: >	This SW still working only with exotic Multitech modems? >>, As of the latested sales pitch to us, yes...   Barryc   >t >O >Sue Skonetski wrote:t >    >/& >> COMPUFAX USERS SAVE TIME and MONEY! >>     >> >	...e >i >  i >"   -- 8  @ Barry Treahy, Jr  *  Midwest Microwave  *  Vice President & CIO   A E-mail: Treahy@mmaz.com * Phone: 480/314-1320 * FAX: 480/661-7028       & --------------030501060407090007000409' Content-Type: text/html; charset=KOI8-R  Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bite  ? <!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN">  <html> <head>E   <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html;charset=KOI8-R">r   <title></title>w </head>e <body> Ruslan R. Laishev wrote:<br>E <blockquote type="cite" cite="mid3CFF7E04.3960FF43@SMTP.DeltaTel.RU">o   <pre wrap="">Hi !/  ? 	This SW still working only with exotic Multitech modems?</pre> 
 </blockquote>T0 As of the latested sales pitch to us, yes...<br> <br>	 Barry<br> E <blockquote type="cite" cite="mid3CFF7E04.3960FF43@SMTP.DeltaTel.RU">    <pre wrap="">      Sue Skonetski wrote:   </pre>   <blockquote type="cite">5     <pre wrap=""> COMPUFAX USERS SAVE TIME and MONEY!s
     </pre>   </blockquote>/   <pre wrap=""><!---->	...     </pre>
 </blockquote>e <br>2 <pre class="moz-signature" cols="$mailwrapcol">--   D Barry Treahy, Jr  *  Midwest Microwave  *  Vice President &amp; CIO    E-mail: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:Treahy@mmaz.com">Treahy@mmaz.com</a> * Phone: 480/314-1320 * FAX: 480/661-7028</pre>l <br> </body>r </html>l  ( --------------030501060407090007000409--   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 06 Jun 2002 19:59:38 +0400=4 From: "Ruslan R. Laishev" <Laishev@SMTP.DeltaTel.RU>3 Subject: Re: just got this - OpenVMS faxing utilityr0 Message-ID: <3CFF86EA.A189FDE1@SMTP.DeltaTel.RU>  S 	The goldfax has been not supported and has been not devloped for the last 2 years,a1 but still saled as "Cool! and Rulez! solution"...4   Nic Clews wrote: >  > Sue Skonetski wrote: > >r( > >  COMPUFAX USERS SAVE TIME and MONEY! > # > Not the only VMS faxing solution!- > / > http://www.gold-fax.com/products/prodmain.htmJ >  > --* > Regards, Nic Clews CSC Computer Sciences > nclews at csc dot comn   -- c Cheers,tF +OpenVMS [Sys|Net] HardWorker .......................................+E  Russia,Delta Telecom Inc,                    Cel:  +7 (901) 971-3222eE  191119,St.Petersburg,Transportny per. 3                     116-3222yF +http://starlet.deltatel.ru ................. SysMan rides HailStorm +   ------------------------------  " Date: Thu, 6 Jun 2002 15:58:43 GMT' From: Rick Dyson <rick-dyson@uiowa.edu>i3 Subject: Re: just got this - OpenVMS faxing utility.) Message-ID: <3CFF86B3.62995506@uiowa.edu>o   "Ruslan R. Laishev" wrote: >  > Hi ! > B >         This SW still working only with exotic Multitech modems?  D Maybe, but I will defend the Mutitech modems and would not call themB exotic. :)  They are just proffessional quality.  They run all theF time and generally don't fail or hicup.  In my experience, I can't say6 that for the USRs and all the 'no names' of the world.  G Heck, the 56k models only cost ~ US$120.  High compared to the internalq4 PC clones, but you don't want one of them anyway. :)   rick   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 06 Jun 2002 17:04:07 GMT  From: system@SendSpamHere.ORG 3 Subject: Re: just got this - OpenVMS faxing utilitym0 Message-ID: <00A0F0E3.1B05FC24@SendSpamHere.ORG>  S In article <3CFF86B3.62995506@uiowa.edu>, Rick Dyson <rick-dyson@uiowa.edu> writes:  >"Ruslan R. Laishev" wrote:r >> E >> Hi !m >> 9C >>         This SW still working only with exotic Multitech modems?c >\E >Maybe, but I will defend the Mutitech modems and would not call them2C >exotic. :)  They are just proffessional quality.  They run all the\G >time and generally don't fail or hicup.  In my experience, I can't sayr7 >that for the USRs and all the 'no names' of the world.t >tH >Heck, the 56k models only cost ~ US$120.  High compared to the internal5 >PC clones, but you don't want one of them anyway. :)N >C >rick   E You've never experienced the MultiTech internal modems then have you? G I used to regard MultiTech quite highly but they're after the commodity F PeeCee marketspace too; thus, their quality has eroded and their tech  support has become abysmal.  H --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM             s5   "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?"     ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 06 Jun 2002 06:35:40 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> 8 Subject: Library files as high performance file system ?, Message-ID: <3CFF3AFA.CD3C61B2@videotron.ca>   Just crious:  K There are many complaints about how slow the VMS file system is, especially + with the creation of many many small files.s  M Could library files (.TLBs) scale to handle large amount of small files ? ForRC instance, a library file to handle newsgroup postings for instance.K  N I assume tat module deletes would be problematic and might require the library8 file be recreated at regular intervals to reclaim space.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 06 Jun 2002 12:01:32 +01001( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1>< Subject: Re: Library files as high performance file system ?) Message-ID: <3CFF410C.EF3A6F9E@127.0.0.1>E   JF Mezei wrote: M > There are many complaints about how slow the VMS file system is, especially,- > with the creation of many many small files.  > O > Could library files (.TLBs) scale to handle large amount of small files ? For E > instance, a library file to handle newsgroup postings for instance.s  H You raise an interesting issue that I've not had a conclusive answer to.  F TLBs can be compressed, and with the speed of CPU's versus data accessF (although it is getting faster) a small data transfer and a decompress< on the fly may be quicker than a larger data transfer alone.  1 This is theory, not observation or fact. Discuss.   F Secondly, I think you're right. When your file is open, access is muchC faster than opening and closing more files. Why not use a dedicatedo indexed file, quicker still?  P > I assume tat module deletes would be problematic and might require the library: > file be recreated at regular intervals to reclaim space.  E I think so too, but would be true of an indexed file anyway. TLBs are D indexed files, but you've not as much control over the keys (or have you?)n  A You can also take the nature of the data into account. If you are F talking newsgroup articles, which you are effectively caching, why notH set up a virtual disk in memory (if you have the space). No need to backF it up or worry about data integrity because you can simply recache the1 news articles. Same if you have RAMdisk hardware.w -- f( Regards, Nic Clews CSC Computer Sciences nclews at csc dot comd   ------------------------------   Date: 6 Jun 2002 08:21:48 -0600-- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)(< Subject: Re: Library files as high performance file system ?3 Message-ID: <g5BWg$$UzTnY@eisner.encompasserve.org>0  \ In article <3CFF3AFA.CD3C61B2@videotron.ca>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> writes: > O > Could library files (.TLBs) scale to handle large amount of small files ? ForCE > instance, a library file to handle newsgroup postings for instance.a  E    We've been told the reason the C compiler uses .tlb instead of thesG    raw .h files is that it is faster.  I assume the compiler folks haveb    good reason for saying so.i   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 06 Jun 2002 15:12:23 GMTo9 From: Hein van den Heuvel <hein_netscape@eps.zko.dec.com> < Subject: Re: Library files as high performance file system ?/ Message-ID: <3CFF7917.D0A53A0B@eps.zko.dec.com>    Bob Koehler wrote:  ^ > In article <3CFF3AFA.CD3C61B2@videotron.ca>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> writes: > >wQ > > Could library files (.TLBs) scale to handle large amount of small files ? For G > > instance, a library file to handle newsgroup postings for instance.g >nG >    We've been told the reason the C compiler uses .tlb instead of theiI >    raw .h files is that it is faster.  I assume the compiler folks have  >    good reason for saying so.l  G And VMSmail uses an indexed file as an alternative to many small files.   R In the late days of RSX, they came up with what I thought was a neat feature whereU libraries became integrated with the (fcs) files open/closes. You could run a commandc[ file (at processor) straight from a library . No need to extract first. Wouldn't it be neateK to the able to have soem file name syntax to open a libary module from RMS? E It's not going to happen, but I'd love to be able to say for example:u.      TYPE SYS$LIBRARY:SYS$STARLET_C.TLB\NAMDEF  S Of course one could argue that the file system itself should simply be able to dealp with many smally files.    Cheers,- Hein.e   ------------------------------   Date: 6 Jun 2002 10:51:05 -0600_+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young)u< Subject: Re: Library files as high performance file system ?3 Message-ID: <RIF+Y5bSRwQh@eisner.encompasserve.org>-  k In article <3CFF7917.D0A53A0B@eps.zko.dec.com>, Hein van den Heuvel <hein_netscape@eps.zko.dec.com> writes:e >    >kN > Of course one could argue that the file system itself should simply be able ! > to deal with many smally files.c >   ) 	Could a smart cache help?  For instance:d  & <NODE>$ show mem/cache=volume=sys$disk@               System Memory Resources on  6-JUN-2002 11:46:16.85  & Extended File Cache Volume Statistics:  < _NODE$DKA0: (DISK$ALPHASYS), Caching mode is VIOC CompatibleD ==> Open files                430     Closed files               237D ==> Files ever opened        3847     Files ever deposed       21724D     Allocated pages           232     Locks acquired               0D     Total QIOs             297001     Read hits               242724D     Virtual reads          254472     Virtual writes           42526D     Hit rate                   81 %   Read aheads               1150D     Read throughs          253056     Write throughs           42493D     Read arounds             1416     Write arounds               33D     Ave Disk I/O Resp Time incl cache hits (microseconds)       2309    ? 	Noticing many small files are opening in a directory, pre-openn@ 	the rest in that directory?  Likewise, you see that contents ofE 	all small files have been touched, go do a pre-fetch of all smallish0 	files just opened?o  > 	Would that mask a good deal of dealing with smallish files or% 	did you have something else in mind?r   				Robd   ------------------------------   Date: 6 Jun 02 14:32:58 +0200s) From: p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture)r; Subject: Re: Linux gains acceptance at expense of Microsofte) Message-ID: <TFaqbUAy+8Dt@elias.decus.ch>t  L In article <adksh7$a2p$1@aquila.mdx.ac.uk>, david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk writes:] > In article <3CFD2460.9964A9E@videotron.ca>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> writes:. >>Bob Ceculski wrote:jI >>> and what about when linux viruses reach your linux box ... unless youDF >>> want to run linux closed, VMS remains the only secure web platform? >>> out there ... open source is unsecure to run on the web ...t >>I >>There is a big difference. Windows comes not only with lots of software L >>installed, but also lots of software configured to start in the backgroundB >>with wide open gaping holes, without the owner knowing about it. >>? >>Linux comes bare bones and you add/enable what you need/want.n >> > ? > I think "bare bones" is stating things a little too strongly.tL > The Linux installation procedures of distributions such as SUSE generally O > offer 3 or 4 standard installation selections and then give you the option toeK > add or remove items. Very few users will select the minimum installation lP > (most want at least Xwindows/KDE) unless they are severely short of diskspace.L > I doubt very much that new users will deselect any items from the standard > selection they have chosen.n >   G My experience too. I myself tend to select additional packages to thosep  supplied in the default choices.  J While on the subject, I can report that SuSE 8.0 has been a disaster on myM system, and I can't even get the network up so that I can download patches toIO the installation software. Should have followed that "not version x.0 rule" :-(    __
 Paul Sture Switzerlandt   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 06 Jun 2002 07:47:54 -0600e' From: DigiDemon <digidemon@hotmail.com>n Subject: Logging user usafea, Message-ID: <adnp46022ae@enews2.newsguy.com>   Good Morning all!u  I Quick question....I have users that login via telnet...is there any way I  can track usage?  Thanks!a   Jamese   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 06 Jun 2002 16:08:26 +0200o9 From: Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com>o Subject: Re: Logging user usafe ' Message-ID: <3CFF6CDA.43CA920A@aaa.com>e   Accounting ?   What "usage" ?   Jan-Erik Sderholm     DigiDemon wrote: >  > Good Morning all!- > K > Quick question....I have users that login via telnet...is there any way IS > can track usage?  Thanks!m >  > Jamesj   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 06 Jun 2002 08:48:53 -06004' From: DigiDemon <digidemon@hotmail.com>A Subject: Re: Logging user usage , Message-ID: <adnsmg028v2@enews1.newsguy.com>  = On Thu, 06 Jun 2002 08:08:26 -0600, Jan-Erik Sderholm wrote:p  > Actually, just when they logged on and off is what I'm looking
 for...thanks!o  	 DigiDemone   ------------------------------  + Date: Thu, 06 Jun 2002 17:09:30 +0100 (MET) 9 From: Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>i Subject: Re: Logging user usageu; Message-ID: <01KIM9AE5NJI96WQWC@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>l  @ > Actually, just when they logged on and off is what I'm looking > for...thanks!d  F There are lots of ways---it depends on how much you trust your users, H how much of the configuration is under your control and how much effort  you want to put into it.   ------------------------------  + Date: Thu, 06 Jun 2002 17:07:30 +0100 (MET)d9 From: Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> B Subject: low-end VMS (was: Re: Mark Gorham's Beer Bash in Reading); Message-ID: <01KIM98ECNAG96WQWC@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>t  I > What's happening to the OpenVMS port is that *any* Itanium architectureaF > system will be able to boot VMS, no firmware, no PALcode, no special > setting, it'll just go.    Right.  J > When the Itanium laptop is available, VMS should install and boot on it.  E The question is, will there be an Itanium laptop available for $1000?g   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 06 Jun 2002 08:42:47 -0700-' From: David Mathog <mathog@caltech.edu>1F Subject: Re: low-end VMS (was: Re: Mark Gorham's Beer Bash in Reading)+ Message-ID: <3CFF82F7.38DB48B9@caltech.edu>g   Phillip Helbig wrote:1 > K > > What's happening to the OpenVMS port is that *any* Itanium architecture H > > system will be able to boot VMS, no firmware, no PALcode, no special > > setting, it'll just go.N >  > Right.  B Nice.  But will anybody other than HPQ be selling Itanium systems?   Regards,   David Mathog mathog@caltech.edu   ------------------------------  . Date: Thu, 6 Jun 2002 08:15:08 +0200 (MET DST)& From: Rudolf Wingert <win@fom.fgan.de>/ Subject: Re: Mark Gorham's Beer Bash in Reading 6 Message-ID: <200206060615.IAA21221@sinet1.fom.fgan.de>   Hello,   Andrew Harrison wrotes:A   >>> 6 Take the case of StarOffice, if it was free but didn't7 compete functionally with MS-Office then cheap might be.? good as far as the customer is concerned but poor functionality9 would remove it from the game. <<<p  F StarOffice was good and (I hope so) will be better in the new version.B That it cost some money doesn't matter. But is it compatible to MSB Office. I hope so, but user expirience is not as good as it should@ be. But if StarOffice is written in standard C, why don't we see@ an OpenVMS version. Filestructure should not be the problem (youD can map any typ of filestructure). Or is it political. Is Sun afraidC about the good OpenVMS and its unused power? IBM knows what OpenVMSaD is and do support a few software products under OpenVMS. That's whatA we want. Also will you see Lotus 123, WordPerfect ... Andrew, now @ Sun should make us happy and present StarOffice for OpenVMS (may= be with the cost of MS Office). WEhy? I will make OpenVMS and 9 only if I could not do with, WINTEL but nver Sun Solaris.s   Regards Rudolf Wingert   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 06 Jun 2002 02:55:47 -0400-- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>h/ Subject: Re: Mark Gorham's Beer Bash in Reading7, Message-ID: <3CFF076B.D18E8E8A@videotron.ca>  ! re: Sun's support of Star Office.h  L Actually, it might be good for Sun to start to port its software, especially( desktop software to VMS (and not HP-UX).  N Consider HP which does not want VMS as a desktop and wants VMS to go away overK time. Everytime Sun ports something to VMS for workstations, it will create J demand for VMS workstations and screw HP's plans which hasn't inteneded toN make VMS available on workstations, yet customers will be clamouring for them.  N That would undermine HP's roadmaps, especially if Star Office is ported to VMS and not HP-UX.  L Also, such a "we support VMS, where is HP's support of VMS?" action from SunN would get some good brownie points with VMS customers who are then more likely  to go to Sun when HP screws VMS.  K Consider that if a VMS customer is using Star Office on his DS-10s and evenpL VAXstations, and finds out that HP has cancelled low end Alpha workstations,J is he more likely to go to Wintel with Office, or to Sun workstations with
 Star Office ?   I I think that Sun porting Star Office to VAX and Alpha VMS would be a very-K strategic move for Sun. Not only would some of these VMS customers start to I pay Sun for support of Star Office, but more importantly, Sun would get alK communication link to many potential customers, especially in light of HP'seG long term lack of plans for VMS which means that many customers will bel! looking at an alternative vendor.o   ------------------------------   Date: 6 Jun 2002 03:35:30 -0700M( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)/ Subject: Re: Mark Gorham's Beer Bash in Readingw: Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0206060235.c0648@posting.google.com>  a JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message news:<3CFF076B.D18E8E8A@videotron.ca>...r# > re: Sun's support of Star Office.. > N > Actually, it might be good for Sun to start to port its software, especially* > desktop software to VMS (and not HP-UX). > P > Consider HP which does not want VMS as a desktop and wants VMS to go away overM > time. Everytime Sun ports something to VMS for workstations, it will createTL > demand for VMS workstations and screw HP's plans which hasn't inteneded toP > make VMS available on workstations, yet customers will be clamouring for them. > P > That would undermine HP's roadmaps, especially if Star Office is ported to VMS > and not HP-UX. > N > Also, such a "we support VMS, where is HP's support of VMS?" action from SunP > would get some good brownie points with VMS customers who are then more likely" > to go to Sun when HP screws VMS. > M > Consider that if a VMS customer is using Star Office on his DS-10s and evenlN > VAXstations, and finds out that HP has cancelled low end Alpha workstations,L > is he more likely to go to Wintel with Office, or to Sun workstations with > Star Office ?4 > K > I think that Sun porting Star Office to VAX and Alpha VMS would be a veryxM > strategic move for Sun. Not only would some of these VMS customers start toCK > pay Sun for support of Star Office, but more importantly, Sun would get alM > communication link to many potential customers, especially in light of HP'soI > long term lack of plans for VMS which means that many customers will bee# > looking at an alternative vendor.e  B that is what itanium is for!  it will give you a cheap entry level@ $1000 box ... isn't that what all you cheapos have been wanting?   ------------------------------   Date: 6 Jun 2002 03:39:58 -0700H( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)/ Subject: Re: Mark Gorham's Beer Bash in Reading = Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0206060239.6cb6907e@posting.google.com>e   Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <andrew_nospam.harrison_remove_this@sun#.com> wrote in message news:<adlcdr$k3a$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>...s > Alan Greig wrote:  > J > > On Fri, 31 May 2002 12:47:41 +0100, Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1>
 > > wrote: > >  > >  > > G > >>>Nobody seems to get the irony of talking about VMS with powerpoint  > >>>slides. > >>>a* > >>You've not seen my acetate which says: > >>6 > >>"Exception in OHP, click to terminate" have you ?! > >> > > G > > I did say (loudly enough for Mark to hear I think), "Now if only ityJ > > was Star Office under VMS". Or probably Open Office unless Sun could eI > > persuaded to support the port themselves. Maybe that's what Andrew isi > > really doing :-) > >  >  > B > It is highly unlikely that Sun would directly support an OpenVMS5 > distribution of StarOffice 6. That would be for HP.e > = > OpenVMS is not a volume desktop OS and nothing like SunRayso= > exist in the OpenVMS space to provide server based desktopsa. > so it would be an unlikely candidate for us. > B > Solaris, Linux, Win32 with the last 2 being the target platforms > to hit MS where it hurts.@ > 	 > Regardsj > Andrew Harrisonl  D not a volume desktop, but a volume workgroup box ... an alphastationC 200 right now can support a small office ... and the purpose of thelE vms port to itanium is to give all the cheapos a $1000 vms box, whichyE should not only increase the workgroup volume, but the desktop volume E as well, and when was the last time you checked out the number of VMSgD hobbyist licenses out there ... there are more than you think ... noD wonder why Sun is going the way of DEC, you don't know how to market either!d   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 06 Jun 2002 07:02:02 -0400t- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>c/ Subject: Re: Mark Gorham's Beer Bash in Reading , Message-ID: <3CFF4125.3A136237@videotron.ca>   Bob Ceculski wrote:eD > that is what itanium is for!  it will give you a cheap entry levelB > $1000 box ... isn't that what all you cheapos have been wanting?  H So far, I have not seen any indication that VMS will be structured to beI available on low end IA64 (or tat low end IA64 will be available at all)..   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 06 Jun 2002 12:14:01 +0100 ( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1>/ Subject: Re: Mark Gorham's Beer Bash in Readingo) Message-ID: <3CFF43F9.BB9C858D@127.0.0.1>I   Bob Ceculski wrote:s >  > Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <andrew_nospam.harrison_remove_this@sun#.com> wrote in message news:<adlcdr$k3a$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>...a > > Alan Greig wrote:a > >oL > > > On Fri, 31 May 2002 12:47:41 +0100, Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1> > > > wrote: > > >e > > >C > > > I > > >>>Nobody seems to get the irony of talking about VMS with powerpoint  > > >>>slides. > > >>>-, > > >>You've not seen my acetate which says: > > >>8 > > >>"Exception in OHP, click to terminate" have you ?! > > >> > > >BI > > > I did say (loudly enough for Mark to hear I think), "Now if only ittL > > > was Star Office under VMS". Or probably Open Office unless Sun could eK > > > persuaded to support the port themselves. Maybe that's what Andrew is  > > > really doing :-) > > >o > >sD > > It is highly unlikely that Sun would directly support an OpenVMS7 > > distribution of StarOffice 6. That would be for HP.a > > ? > > OpenVMS is not a volume desktop OS and nothing like SunRaysi? > > exist in the OpenVMS space to provide server based desktops20 > > so it would be an unlikely candidate for us. > >zD > > Solaris, Linux, Win32 with the last 2 being the target platforms > > to hit MS where it hurts.5 > >e > > Regardsm > > Andrew Harrisont > F > not a volume desktop, but a volume workgroup box ... an alphastationE > 200 right now can support a small office ... and the purpose of theoG > vms port to itanium is to give all the cheapos a $1000 vms box, whichtG > should not only increase the workgroup volume, but the desktop volumerG > as well, and when was the last time you checked out the number of VMS F > hobbyist licenses out there ... there are more than you think ... noF > wonder why Sun is going the way of DEC, you don't know how to market	 > either!s  < Stick a graphics card in a GS320, what does that make it :-)  , (No idea, but you'd need a bl**dy big desk!)  E Somewhere down the line it would be nice to boot up my Itanium laptoptC with VMS and use StarOffice [StarImpress] to give a presentation...n   It is up to HP though, not Sun.  -- f( Regards, Nic Clews CSC Computer Sciences nclews at csc dot comg   ------------------------------   Date: 6 Jun 2002 08:22:26 -0600Y- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) / Subject: Re: Mark Gorham's Beer Bash in Readingd3 Message-ID: <FNnunGpvGfin@eisner.encompasserve.org>   \ In article <3CFF4125.3A136237@videotron.ca>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> writes: > Bob Ceculski wrote: E >> that is what itanium is for!  it will give you a cheap entry levelmC >> $1000 box ... isn't that what all you cheapos have been wanting?e > J > So far, I have not seen any indication that VMS will be structured to beK > available on low end IA64 (or tat low end IA64 will be available at all).m  ?    Then I infer that so far you haven't asked the right people.    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 06 Jun 2002 15:58:14 +0100v( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1>/ Subject: Re: Mark Gorham's Beer Bash in Readingd) Message-ID: <3CFF7886.FE940E9B@127.0.0.1>0   JF Mezei wrote:C >  > Bob Ceculski wrote:bF > > that is what itanium is for!  it will give you a cheap entry levelD > > $1000 box ... isn't that what all you cheapos have been wanting? > J > So far, I have not seen any indication that VMS will be structured to beK > available on low end IA64 (or tat low end IA64 will be available at all).d  G What's happening to the OpenVMS port is that *any* Itanium architecture D system will be able to boot VMS, no firmware, no PALcode, no special setting, it'll just go.o  H When the Itanium laptop is available, VMS should install and boot on it.   --  ( Regards, Nic Clews CSC Computer Sciences nclews at csc dot com    ------------------------------   Date: 6 Jun 2002 10:07:55 -0600,- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)i/ Subject: Re: Mark Gorham's Beer Bash in Readingv3 Message-ID: <egIWFAgryW4u@eisner.encompasserve.org>f  T In article <3CFF7886.FE940E9B@127.0.0.1>, Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1> writes: > JF Mezei wrote:n >> e >> Bob Ceculski wrote:G >> > that is what itanium is for!  it will give you a cheap entry level E >> > $1000 box ... isn't that what all you cheapos have been wanting?c >> eK >> So far, I have not seen any indication that VMS will be structured to beeL >> available on low end IA64 (or tat low end IA64 will be available at all). > I > What's happening to the OpenVMS port is that *any* Itanium architecturetF > system will be able to boot VMS, no firmware, no PALcode, no special > setting, it'll just go.  > J > When the Itanium laptop is available, VMS should install and boot on it.  < I am probably among the least skeptical about VMS on Itanium< for many purposes (DEC Ada just does not happen to be one of them).  9 But I have not heard solid indications of Itanium laptopso in the future.   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 06 Jun 2002 16:04:31 GMTi* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>/ Subject: Re: Mark Gorham's Beer Bash in ReadingbB Message-ID: <jKLL8.145052$%o.13781544@bin3.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>  : "Bob Koehler" <koehler@encompasserve.org> wrote in message- news:FNnunGpvGfin@eisner.encompasserve.org...n7 > In article <3CFF4125.3A136237@videotron.ca>, JF Mezei.& <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> writes: > > Bob Ceculski wrote:aG > >> that is what itanium is for!  it will give you a cheap entry level E > >> $1000 box ... isn't that what all you cheapos have been wanting?a > > L > > So far, I have not seen any indication that VMS will be structured to beG > > available on low end IA64 (or tat low end IA64 will be available at  all).s >eA >    Then I infer that so far you haven't asked the right people.n  K That's easy to remedy, then:  please tell us who the 'right people' are wholG can provide credible statements about the future availability of Itanic H systems, complete with licensed VMS software, for under $1K.  Given thatK last I knew you couldn't even purchase an Itanic *processor* for that (in QjK 1000 batches), let alone a VMS license for anything save hobbyist use, thisd, will constitute a rather significant change.   - bill   ------------------------------  + Date: Thu, 06 Jun 2002 11:13:54 +0100 (MET)-9 From: Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>2' Subject: Re: Newsreader for OpenVMS 7.2=; Message-ID: <01KILWSZ1QPI96WQWC@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>   B > > PS: Consider NETSCAPE/MOZILLA/CSWB, LYNX, MXRN, SLRN, ... too. > J > I wish to use only a "character cell" interface, for reasons of securityE > and bandwidth - can you or others recommend a newsreader with thosea > charateristics?   H LYNX is character-cell.  It is actually nice as a news reader, although F it is actually a web browser.  I prefer NEWSRDR since it allows me to ? mark a thread or message as seen, whereas LYNX can't do this.  . Otherwise, LYNX is fine.  F Of course, one can run LYNX in a DECterm on a graphics monitor.  This F allows one to define programs such as image viewers to be launched on C links to images etc, if so desired.  Thus, as long as the graphics 3I content is not an essential part of the layout (which probably indicates  I a bad design anyway), one can have LYNX (which has many things going for u6 it) and also the possibility to view images if needed.   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 06 Jun 2002 11:03:00 GMTs3 From: skidmore@alternate-venue.org (Barry Skidmore) ' Subject: Re: Newsreader for OpenVMS 7.2o1 Message-ID: <EjHL8.64$yK6.14242@news1.iquest.net>.  J Does BULLETIN use article numbers or msg id's to keep track of the messageN list?  It was mentioned in this thread that a problem with NEWSRDR (which I amM currently using) is that it uses article numbers, which some news servers may9 renumber from time-to-time.c   Barry   b In article <3cfe5034$1@news.si.com>, "Brian Tillman" <tillman_brian@notnoone.notnohow.com> writes:I >>I am looking for a newsreader for OpenVMS 7.2, and would be grateful ifi  >>someone would point me to one. >aK >There are several.  I've used BULLETIN (from ftp://psfc.mit.edu/bulletin/)eE >for a character cell reader and Navigator V3.03 and Mosaic 3.6-2 for- >DECwindows-based readers. >--2B >Brian Tillman                   Internet: tillman_brian at si.comB >Smiths Aerospace                          tillman at swdev.si.com> >3290 Patterson Ave. SE, MS      Addresses modified to prevent= >Grand Rapids, MI 49512-1991     SPAM.  Replace "at" with "@"m9 >       This opinion doesn't represent that of my companym >e >o   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 06 Jun 2002 08:34:41 GMT 2 From: "Andrew Dodd" <Andrew.J.Dodd@HP.spamfreecom> Subject: Re: No new Alpha salesh/ Message-ID: <B8FL8.4$jS.97376@news.cpqcorp.net>-  D I plead guilty - Andrew is right. I wouldn't disagree with 70%. I do3 undestand SAP - I design hardware solutions for it.B  C But I do contest that it is still a more meaningful comparison thann benchmarks like SPECint etc.  J When we did the SAP BM that was the latest version, adjust it by 70% and aL per CPU measure comes out just about the same, 50 users per cpu on GS, 53 onK F15k. Then we could have a discussion about the shape of the tail-off curve I and the effect of the GS with 1001MHz CPUs with bigger caches which couldoG well put the GS back up there on a per CPU basis. I don,t, can't, claimfG parity with the F15k at its top end. What I wanted to show, and I still D believe that I did, was that the GS series are not the total failureK technically that Andrew claims. The only competitor I really worry about issC IBM with their p690 - anything else can be beaten - even with a GS.a  G As to TPC-H - TPC counsel against comparing differing database sizes. IaE can't remember the date of the GS 300GB benchmark, and I think it gotsH withdrawn. It's yet another benchmark where it would be nice to have theJ same benchmark on the same day and from current price lists - but it ain't going to happen.   --" Andrew Dodd - not speaking for HP. Pre-Sales Account Consultant HP Computer Ltd- www.hp.com/uk/   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 06 Jun 2002 15:38:27 GMTe9 From: Hein van den Heuvel <hein_netscape@eps.zko.dec.com>  Subject: Re: No new Alpha salesF/ Message-ID: <3CFF7F32.130FAA49@eps.zko.dec.com>    Andrew Dodd wrote:  F > I plead guilty - Andrew is right. I wouldn't disagree with 70%. I do5 > undestand SAP - I design hardware solutions for it.H  N Beg to differ. I've actually measured 30% on identical boxes. I think that our 2720 result O would drop to roughly 2100 allowing for 4.6C. Using the currently shipping 1Ghzn will putJ it back over 2800. If / when an 1.2 Ghz GS320 becomes available that wouldJ suggest well over 3000... but not 4000... you do the math, it's not rocket science!  L > When we did the SAP BM that was the latest version, adjust it by 70% and aH > per CPU measure comes out just about the same, 50 users per cpu on GS,  N Well, the Alpha Ev6.8 @1Ghz was the first CPU to be certified @ > 100 user/CPUK for SAP SD 4.6C on 10/16/1 with an ES45 @ 420 users. This was only recentlysP matched by IBM (860 users from 8p partition). It might just be time to top that.   fwiw,s Hein.e   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 06 Jun 2002 15:52:34 GMTf* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> Subject: Re: No new Alpha salesaB Message-ID: <5zLL8.127000$%y.13399354@bin4.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>  F "Hein van den Heuvel" <hein_netscape@eps.zko.dec.com> wrote in message) news:3CFF7F32.130FAA49@eps.zko.dec.com...a >p >n > Andrew Dodd wrote: >yH > > I plead guilty - Andrew is right. I wouldn't disagree with 70%. I do7 > > undestand SAP - I design hardware solutions for it.  >-L > Beg to differ. I've actually measured 30% on identical boxes. I think that ouri
 > 2720 resultlL > would drop to roughly 2100 allowing for 4.6C. Using the currently shipping 1Ghz
 > will putL > it back over 2800. If / when an 1.2 Ghz GS320 becomes available that wouldL > suggest well over 3000... but not 4000... you do the math, it's not rocket
 > science!  J Well, not if this SAP benchmark scales linearly with clock rate.  Does it?   - bill   ------------------------------   Date: 6 Jun 2002 09:14:45 -0700 ( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski) Subject: Re: No new Alpha sales = Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0206060814.3cec14ff@posting.google.com>r  i "Andrew Dodd" <Andrew.J.Dodd@HP.spamfreecom> wrote in message news:<B8FL8.4$jS.97376@news.cpqcorp.net>...uF > I plead guilty - Andrew is right. I wouldn't disagree with 70%. I do5 > undestand SAP - I design hardware solutions for it.n >   & when is SAP going to be ported to VMS?   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 06 Jun 2002 16:33:18 GMT # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>  Subject: Re: No new Alpha salesSI Message-ID: <i9ML8.201473$ah_.29556@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>   5 "Bob Ceculski" <bob@instantwhip.com> wrote in messageo7 news:d7791aa1.0206060814.3cec14ff@posting.google.com...s > ( > when is SAP going to be ported to VMS?  H The day HP says to SAP, "You want to be an ISV partner with HP, and haveK access to extra HP resources? Fine, here's the deal - SAP is made available F on HP-UX, Tru64, and on OpenVMS - all on the same day, all at the sameI release level, for all major and minor point releases. All these releases @ are to be at least on parity with releases for AIX and Solaris."   That's when.   ------------------------------  * Date: Thu, 6 Jun 2002 02:18:25 -0500 (CDT)? From: "Doc.Cypher" <Use-Author-Supplied-Address-Header@[127.1]>a Subject: Re: Open Letter to HP< Message-ID: <200206060718.g567IP3w074090@cryptofortress.com>  9 On Wed, 05 Jun 2002, "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> wrote: M >So we are agreed now. But you should also see JF's post right after yours. Ii >agree with him too. >dJ >Any psychologist worth anything will tell you that audio-visual cues helpL >stimulate the brain to remember propositions. You didn't even have to *see*H >the Intel Blue Man commercials more than once before you recognized theM >3-note 'signature'. You could have been in the kitchen fishing a beer out of:M >the fridge at half-time and heard them from the television. Your brain wouldhM >have told you..'There's another Intel Pentium III commercial'. VMS needs the  >same kind of 'hook'.  >,J >That said, there are certain key television programs in each country that$ >are seen by the people that matter. >y >Those programs are:8 >- the nightly business reports and commentary shows....H >- political commentary shows (remember that lots of CEO's contribute toF >political parties and are keenly aware of the political circus), ....G >- and certain television programs of general interest - perhaps NOVA &dH >National Geographic, Wimbledon/US Open tennis, Masters golf, etc... and/ >equivalent types of programs in other markets.e  G You just need to look at the advertising campaign mounted by Oracle for H their products. This featured prominently on CNN and BBC World, both areF channels that'll get a lot of viewers from that top-tier of managementA around the globe. I believe VMS needs a similar campaign with the E associated backup in publications such as Computerworld, I just don't * believe it's going to happen anytime soon.     Doc. --  6 The bigger the humbug, the better people will like it.K ~ Phineas Taylor Barnum.                             https://vmsbox.cjb.netr   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 06 Jun 2002 08:08:19 GMT.* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> Subject: Re: Open Letter to HP> Message-ID: <TLEL8.7120$Qg.598063@bin6.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>  8 "Rob Young" <young_r@encompasserve.org> wrote in message- news:jh2LimlrsH4D@eisner.encompasserve.org...iJ > In article <WfAL8.122443$%y.12983516@bin4.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>, "Bill& Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> writes:   ...i  / > Speaking of sliding stocks, since you broughth
 > that up,  J Really, Rob?  Care to refresh my memory by quoting where I did, or are you just wrong yet again?t  :  have you checked out their competition or are you content > just to marginalize HP?-  E HP are the weasels who deserve to die, so that's where I concentrate.    ...w  I > > Carly was already in trouble a year ago, and only bought herself some  timeG > > with the Compaq debacle (since a BoD stupid enough to go for it waswE > > certainly stupid enough to give her an opportunity to 'prove' itsm worth).nH > > Unless she can come up with a similar scam next year, HP may finally decideB > > it's had enough of her before going completely down the tubes. >2C > I think you are barking up the wrong tree.  Why not do us a favoroB > and trot out some seasoned analysis instead of wild speculation?  E Given that the consensus opinion of both Wall Street and the industryEJ analysts was that both companies were in deep trouble (and poorly managed)K already and that the merger would only make matters worse, I hardly believetF that my agreement with it constitutes 'wild speculation'.  And I'm not: interested in what you think, nor in doing you any favors.   - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 06 Jun 2002 11:25:47 +0200wE From: Jan C. =?iso-8859-1?Q?Vorbr=FCggen?= <jvorbrueggen@mediasec.de>t Subject: Re: Open Letter to HP+ Message-ID: <3CFF2A9B.BE468898@mediasec.de>l  L > If a CIO goes to his/her CEO and/or BoD with an OS recommendation and getsK > anything but "OK", "We can't afford to do that right now", or "Is there aiI > less immediately expensive course we could take?", s/he should look forsH > another job, since s/he clearly isn't trusted to do the current one by3 > people who know far less about it than s/he does.   G Just what I have been thinking. So are things as Bill describes, or aret6 they more like the others claim? What about you, Alan?   	Jan   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 06 Jun 2002 14:05:32 GMT # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>  Subject: Re: Open Letter to HPJ Message-ID: <M_JL8.231699$t8_.200267@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>  = http://thenew.hp.com/country/us/eng/companyinfo/execteam.htmla  8 For execs and the Board. Be sure to read the whole page.      > "Jerry Leslie" <LESLIE@JRLVAX.HOUSTON.RR.COM> wrote in message6 news:BnCL8.198083$Q42.8885104@typhoon.austin.rr.com...0 > JF Mezei (jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca) wrote:J > : How much of the HP board is made up of ex Compaq board members ? Or isF > : the HP board still very much the same HP board (sans Hwelett) that existed-& > : prior to Carly and Curly's folly ? > :2 > G > This site will show who the members of the board are and what members ) > serve on other Bods (Flash 5 required):  >n >   http://www.theyrule.net/
 >   They Rulet >eJ > --Jerry Leslie   leslie@clio.rice.edu  (my opinions are strictly my own); >   Note: leslie@jrlvax.houston.rr.com is invalid for emailr   ------------------------------  * Date: Thu, 6 Jun 2002 13:02:33 +0000 (UTC)* From: Osmo Kujala <kujala@tukki.cc.jyu.fi>L Subject: OpenVMS, Volume Desktop OS (Re: Mark Gorham's Beer Bash in Reading), Message-ID: <adnmh9$4f3$1@mordred.cc.jyu.fi>  V Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <andrew_nospam.harrison_remove_this@sun#.com> wrote:  = > OpenVMS is not a volume desktop OS and nothing like SunRays1= > exist in the OpenVMS space to provide server based desktops: ...   I OpenVMS is good OS for desktop and has better that SunRays "server based" H environment. OpenVMS doesn't have volume because DEC/Compaq/HP choose to give volume for Windows. :-(G (They even actively invented trick's to keep OpenVMS hardware far away   from low cost level.) J Diskless VAX or Alpha workstations can easily be added to cluster as full H members. Some of those workstations may be with disk and act as servers K and can of course be used as workstation same time (if the disks are quiet w enough).  F If the flexibility (all-purpose nature) of OpenVMS is not used I don'tA understand how it could survive. Think for example a small officebC for which OpenVMS would be very good for server, but they need someaJ workstations too. If there's not available OpenVMS desktops they certainly% try to use Wintel for the server too.L  I OpenVMS can, and has survived as niche OS. But that isn't interesting andDF not for us. We have now near 100 servers in our computer room. Most ofG them PC:s with Linux, unix, Windows etc. . Sure OpenVMS would have muchoD to offer for that. Would make lots of empty space there and make theF services more reliable and easier to maintain. BUT when OpenVMS is so K neglected and kept secret, I would never even suggest to increase its use. i   My opinionsV               Osmo   ------------------------------  * Date: Thu, 6 Jun 2002 06:18:26 -0700 (PDT). From: Fabio Cardoso <fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br>Q Subject: Oracle RDB 7.0.64 BUG !!!! was Re: Oracle Rdb V7.0.6.4 has been releaseda@ Message-ID: <20020606131826.10895.qmail@web20207.mail.yahoo.com>   This version has a bug !! We installed it at the company ton, solve a problem, but it generated another ! ( Oracle knows it and their engineering is+ trying to solve. We returned to ORDB 7.0-31h  2 The problem is - I will try to expplain:  when you3 selected all the fields in a table the records came-6 ok, but when selecting some specific fields in another order the records came zeroed.   Regards Fabio Cardosoo       --- Phillip Helbig+ <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> wrote:31 > > Note, there is only 7.0.6 kits here, no 7.1.*e > kits.r > 5 > Note also that 7.1 and later are ALPHA only.  Olders > stuff is both VAX 2 > and ALPHA.  The 7.0.6 stream is also still under > development.  Of r3 > course, the Itanium port is in the works as well.s     =====u ========================== Fbio dos Santos Cardoso OpenVMS System Manager Rio de Janeiro - Brazilv fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br ==========================  2 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!?0 Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com    ------------------------------  * Date: Thu, 6 Jun 2002 04:12:07 -0500 (CDT)? From: "Doc.Cypher" <Use-Author-Supplied-Address-Header@[127.1]>d2 Subject: Re: Oracle Rdb V7.0.6.4 has been released< Message-ID: <200206060912.g569C7lP078914@cryptofortress.com>  H On Mon, 03 Jun 2002, norm lastovica <norman.lastovica@oracle.com> wrote:7 >Oracle Rdb engineering is proud to annouce that Oraclee> >Rdb Release 7.0.6.4 is now ready for widespread distribution.0 >The Rdb 7.0.6.4 kits are available on MetaLink.  J Apologies if this has been asked before, but is there a Hobbyist programme: for RDB? If so, where on the Oracle website can I find it?     Doc. -- p6 The bigger the humbug, the better people will like it.K ~ Phineas Taylor Barnum.                             https://vmsbox.cjb.net    ------------------------------  + Date: Thu, 06 Jun 2002 11:22:44 +0100 (MET)e9 From: Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>s2 Subject: Re: Oracle Rdb V7.0.6.4 has been released; Message-ID: <01KILWY2R4V096WQWC@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>   J > On Mon, 03 Jun 2002, norm lastovica <norman.lastovica@oracle.com> wrote:: > > Oracle Rdb engineering is proud to annouce that OracleA > > Rdb Release 7.0.6.4 is now ready for widespread distribution.e3 > > The Rdb 7.0.6.4 kits are available on MetaLink.e > B > Apologies if this has been asked before, but is there a HobbyistG > programme for RDB? If so, where on the Oracle website can I find it? t  I Probably not on the ORACLE website at http://www.oracle.com/  but rather  G at the Rdb website at http://www.oracle.com/rdb/ .  :-)  (There should i) be a link to the latter from the former.)-  H I can't find it now, but at least there used to be a link to download a G free version of Rdb for SOFTWARE DEVELOPMENT.  I suppose you could use MC this in a hobbyist context and say you were developing a Great New LD Product which, unfortunately, never got off the ground.  :-|  It is G quite clear from the terms, however, that absolutely no commercial use  E is allowed from this version.  I also doubt that it would cover many eH things which a hobbyist license would allow, though it would cover some ' (like fooling around with it yourself)._   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 06 Jun 2002 13:23:24 +0200p9 From: Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com> 2 Subject: Re: Oracle Rdb V7.0.6.4 has been released' Message-ID: <3CFF462C.DFA50A3E@aaa.com>   A I think they call it "developer license", but I seams to remember-: that you could "use" it much like the VMS hobbyist licens.   - Goto www.compaq.comn - Click the "download" icon.= - Logon to OTN (or signup first, and you need to have a legalaD   service contract, so maybe "hobbyist" don't fit here after all...) - Select "Oracle Rdb products" - Select Alpha or VAX kit.  3 Note, there is only 7.0.6 kits here, no 7.1.* kits.o   Jan-Erik Sderholm   PS.-8 Some time ago, there was a change to the Rdb homepage at; www.compaq.com/rdb. It doesn't say "Oracle 9i" on the "tab"l- anymore, but the more "neutral" "Database"...c DS.p   "Doc.Cypher" wrote:y > J > On Mon, 03 Jun 2002, norm lastovica <norman.lastovica@oracle.com> wrote:9 > >Oracle Rdb engineering is proud to annouce that Oracle @ > >Rdb Release 7.0.6.4 is now ready for widespread distribution.2 > >The Rdb 7.0.6.4 kits are available on MetaLink. > L > Apologies if this has been asked before, but is there a Hobbyist programme< > for RDB? If so, where on the Oracle website can I find it? >  > Doc. > --8 > The bigger the humbug, the better people will like it.M > ~ Phineas Taylor Barnum.                             https://vmsbox.cjb.netp   ------------------------------  + Date: Thu, 06 Jun 2002 13:31:00 +0100 (MET) 9 From: Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>t2 Subject: Re: Oracle Rdb V7.0.6.4 has been released; Message-ID: <01KIM1N3YC4I96WQWC@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>i  5 > Note, there is only 7.0.6 kits here, no 7.1.* kits.v  F Note also that 7.1 and later are ALPHA only.  Older stuff is both VAX B and ALPHA.  The 7.0.6 stream is also still under development.  Of 1 course, the Itanium port is in the works as well.e   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 06 Jun 2002 09:24:52 -0500aC From: "Craig A. Berry" <craig.berry@nospam.SignalTreeSolutions.com>n2 Subject: Re: Oracle Rdb V7.0.6.4 has been releasedH Message-ID: <craig.berry-1CE4F9.09245206062002@news.directvinternet.com>  ' In article <3CFF462C.DFA50A3E@aaa.com>,e(  Jan-Erik Sderholm <aaa@aaa.com> wrote:  C > I think they call it "developer license", but I seams to remember7< > that you could "use" it much like the VMS hobbyist licens. >  > - Goto www.compaq.com    I'd start from  + http://otn.oracle.com/software/content.htmlr  B and the last item in the "Database" list is "Oracle Rdb Products."   > - Click the "download" icon.? > - Logon to OTN (or signup first, and you need to have a legalsF >   service contract, so maybe "hobbyist" don't fit here after all...)  G You do have to sign up for an OTN membership, but (at least when I did uG it) it was free and though you do have to accept the license agreement  2 I never saw anything about an existing contract.      > - Select "Oracle Rdb products" > - Select Alpha or VAX kit.   ------------------------------   Date: 6 Jun 2002 03:12:44 -0700o From: cbdeja@my-deja.com (-)4 Subject: Re: read access required to write to a file= Message-ID: <611952a3.0206060212.7d2aaf45@posting.google.com>t  F Thanks for your comments. Sorry for leaving out some of the underlying@ details like OS and C compiler version (v7.3 and Compaq C v6.5).  E I left out some of the background so that I could "cut to the chase",  but the situation is this:  E We have a library and a LARGE number of tools which are linked to it.sE All of this is fairly old source code and has been ported to numerousd* UNIX platforms and VMS 5.5 over the years.  E The library and tools make lots of calls to access() and return erroroA messages if necessary. The reasons for using access() so much areeE pretty much academic - it's not really feasible for us to pull all oftA the tools and the library apart and re-implement without access().C calls. We would also have to make extensive changes to the expected0E results in the test suites. I suspect that there may also be access()eF checks performed on files which must NOT be actually actioned (e.g. itC would not want to actually execute a program to find out whether itt could be executed!).  B On the VMS 5.5 platform, ACLs had not been implemented so access()D largely worked OK. Even so, X_OK still says a file is not executableE if the file has only "R" protection code - which is strictly speaking  wrong.  C We are now porting to OpenVMS Alpha and it has been decided that weSF must use ACLs on this platform, so access() is now unusable as it doesC not check ACLs. In addition there is another difference between VMSuE 5.5 and OpenVMS 7.3 where you must now also have "R" access to a file- before you canC fopen("filename", "w") which create a new file version, but VMS 5.5@A would always create a new file version irrespective of protection8 code.$  C So we have been compelled to write our own replacement for access()@D (which we won't be calling aceess()!) using SYS$CHECK_ACCESS(). This> works fine and appears to check file protection code, ACLs and privileges.a  @ However the flags that you supply to SYS$CHECK_ACCESS() are veryE similar to those used in the access() function. So you have to write:a  2     if (mode & X_OK) access_type |= ARM$M_EXECUTE;?     if (mode & W_OK) access_type |= ARM$M_WRITE | ARM$M_DELETE;i/     if (mode & R_OK) access_type |= ARM$M_READ;a  E to map between the two. The thing is that these ARM flags map to the -F "RWED" permissions in the same way as the mode() flags map to the UNIXD "rwx" permissions. So the ARM flags are just as tricky to use as theC mode() flags when trying to ascertain what you can ACTUALLY DO to ac9 file. For example if you give SYS$CHECK_ACCESS() the flagnE ARM$M_EXECUTE then it will just check for "E" permissions to the file'E - it won't tell you that it is executable if you have "R" permissionss to the file.  ? In the UNIX world things are simpler in that the access() flagstA reflect the actions that you can actually perform on the file. InBE VMS/OpenVMS there are extra rules like "R" but no "E" still means yousF can execute the file, or you need "R" access to fopen("filename","w").F It's so complex in VMS that I agree it would be better to just attemptE to access the file and then process the error, but it is not feasibleM2 for us modify all of the existing code to do this.  E Consequently we are forced to write a my_access() function to replaceeC access() on OpenVMS. And we have to decide whether to duplicate theyD behaviour of the OpenVMS access() function or to attempt to work out6 what operations you can actually perform on the file -C SYS$CHECK_ACCESS will NOT tell you this because it simply tests thedC "RWED" permissions, it is not designed to implement the extra rulesNE (like "R" means you can also execute). So we would have to write code C to implement these rules ourselves - the two rules I have mentionedlC are from the "system security" manual but I'm not confident that wes! have captured all of these rules.a  F Sorry this is rather long, but this is the background that was missing from my original posting.d   Regards    Colin     d hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) wrote in message news:<adh41v$bqo$5@web1.cup.hp.com>...] > In article <611952a3.0205310358.923421c@posting.google.com>, cbdeja@my-deja.com (-) writes:t > A >   When posting, please include the version information.  Why?   @ >   Because the C RTL ships with OpenVMS, and the specifics can @ >   and do vary over OpenVMS releases.  And there are C ECO kits@ >   available.  And with specific C compiler versions, you have A >   access to the backport library, which provides newer routinesg >   on older releases. > I > :I am writing a replacement for the C runtime library function access()fC > :because as it says in the documentation "access() does not checkl	 > :ACLs".c > H >   Why are you doing this?  When posting, please provide the background@ >   on the problem, in addition to providing a discussion of theE >   proposed solution(s).  With the background, we can potententially E >   provide you with alternatives that you might not have considered.a > E >   As for access(), the UNIX file protection semantics do not match  D >   the OpenVMS semantics.  The access call is a compromise between E >   the two schemes.  Classic UNIX, for instance, does not have ACLs.  > I > :However, when I investigated the current behaviour of access() I foundeF > :that the values it returns do not always agree with what you are IN% > :ACTUALITY allowed to do to a file.d > E >   Please examine the complete OpenVMS security model, as listed in rE >   the OpenVMS security manual -- the model is shown as an extensivemF >   flow-chart.  There are a number of factors involved, including theG >   ACLs and the privileges and the subsystem identifiers and the UICs.h > I > :For example, if you have a file which has only "W" protection code andeI > :you ask access() if you have write access to it (W_OK) it will say youiH > :do - but in reality you must have both "R" and "W" protection code to# > :write to the file using fopen().  > G >   Write-only files are rather more difficult than you might initially0 >   suspect. > I > :Also if your file has only "R" protection code and you ask access() if C > :you can execute the file it will say no - but in reality you CANCC > :execute the file because (as the documantation says) "R" implies  > :execute rights. > A >   In OpenVMS protections, read access is a superset of execute.a > H > :I now have to decide whether my replacement access() function followsF > :the existing access() which in my opinion seems to be defective, orE > :instead attempts to report what you can in reality do to the file.g > > >   Please don't even THINK of calling your function "access". > E > :To do this I would need to ensure that a file had "RWD" protection H > :code before my access() would say you had write access to it. Also ifG > :a file had "R" or "X" protection code then it would say that you hadw > :execute access to it. > :oH > :I'm fairly new to VMS programming, so can anyone explain why access()@ > :seems defective, or any other strange rules which govern whatE > :operations you can in reality perform on a file? Or just any other1 > :comments .....? > E >   The safest approach is to simply attempt the file operation -- a  E >   pre-emptive protection check is wasteful for several reasons, nots* >   the least of which are the following:  > C >     o The application-based protection check duplicates the checklF >       that the operating system will perform -- if the local checks F >       are implemented correctly, a state which is not always a safe  >       assumption,/ > F >     o the protections can change between when the check is made and E >       the access is attempted, meaning you still need to have code  0 >       that can recover from an access failure. > E >   If you are inexorably compelled to implement this, use sys$chkprocE >   or sys$check_access -- do NOT attempt your own protection checks.a >  > " >   But again, what are you up to? >  > P >  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------P >       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.com    P >  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------N >    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------   Date: 6 Jun 2002 04:06:00 -0700l From: cbdeja@my-deja.com (-)4 Subject: Re: read access required to write to a file= Message-ID: <611952a3.0206060305.495431bc@posting.google.com>t  . Just an additional message to clarify a point.  C > As for access(), the UNIX file protection semantics do not match  B > the OpenVMS semantics.  The access call is a compromise between C > the two schemes.  Classic UNIX, for instance, does not have ACLs.V  F access() on UNIX just tests which of the "rwx" permissions of the fileF you have. Similarly, sys$check_access() on VMS just tests which of the( "RWDE" permissions of the file you have.  B In this respect they are almost the same, apart from the extra "D"E permission which is usually handled by equating "WD" to the UNIX "w".a  D The issue of ACLs and privileges is transparent sys$check_access() -= all of the ACLs and privilege checks are done internally, buttB sys$check_access() still just tells you whether you personally (orD another user) have any of the "RWDE" rights to the file. So there isD still the very close similarity between the "RWDE" and "rwx" rights.  F The same applies on flavours which do implement ACLs - it should stillE be possible for access() to simply tell you which of "rwx" rights you1 have to the file.r  E The point I'm trying to make is that whatever the complexities of theBD underlying security checks, as long as the interface to the checkingF functions sys$check_access() or access() is simply telling you whetherF you have RWED or rwx rights then the UNIX and VMS file permissions are. very similar and should be easily convertable.  A The thing that REALLY messes the conversion up is the EXTRA rulese@ which VMS uses ("R" implies execute; "R" is needed to write to aD file), which sys$check_access() does not test for. And UNIX does not have these extra rules.    Colina   ------------------------------   Date: 6 Jun 2002 06:18:18 -0700P# From: dooleys@snowy.net.au (dooley)3D Subject: Re: Real Time Survey: After the MIRA, the VAX FT. And then?= Message-ID: <1ca82fc6.0206060518.7d4a7816@posting.google.com>s  \ Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@Free.fr> wrote in message news:<3CF9B2C2.B24A21ED@Free.fr>...R > I had a talk with a Customer doing intensive real time processing with VMS. They> > drive the automatic metro of Toulouse (metro without pilot). > P > They started 15 years ago with a MIRA. The MIRA, produced by DEC CSS in AnnecyE > (France) was the first nearly-fault-tolerant VAX, with Master-Slavet > relationship, running VMS. > 4 > Then, they bought the second generation, a VAX FT. > R > This application manages the cars of the subway, opens and close subway stationsO > doors, car doors, lights, elevators and mechanical stairs, collects and sends C > signalisation, in two words, does intensive real time management.n > - > What will be their next platform? they ask.c >  > Your suggestion: > 
 > [ ] PDP/RSXp > [ ] Tandem/NSK > [ ] Itanium/VMSl > [ ] Intel/windowse > [ ] Intel/Linuxd
 > [ ] G4/OS XT > [ ] CMOS/MVS XA 
 > [ ] Palm/OSn4 > [ ] Other, specify _______________________________ >  > D. But don't forget   [ ] Alpha/Tru64 @ Used a lot to run scada systems in power generation/transmissionD see http://www.compaq.com/inform/issues/issue34/industrye-c-223.html Phil   ------------------------------   Date: 6 Jun 2002 09:27:27 -0700-' From: twilliams@gscc.com (Tom Williams)0V Subject: Running Test and Production systems on different Galaxy instances in one ES40= Message-ID: <770c7f9b.0206060827.52f35c66@posting.google.com>0  ? We're looking into migrating our environments to ES40s, and are2= planning on having each box contain two Galaxy instances: onerD production, one test. Each instance will have its own sets of disks,C separate UAFs, etc. Assuming the instances are set up correctly, is.@ there anything that might happen on the test system (hardware orA software) that could affect the production system?  I realize I'moB being vague, but I don't feel comfortable having production in the> same cabinet as test.  All comments, pro and con, are welcome.   Thanks in advance/   Tom Williams   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 06 Jun 2002 17:57:02 +0200 - From: Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@Free.fr> ! Subject: STARTUP stops after booti' Message-ID: <3CFF864E.70E31F05@Free.fr>p   OpenVMS 7.3u  K I do not remember what I did last time I booted the box, but I restarted itdN after a while and after message "jumping to bootstrap code" I get the "OpenVMSP (TM) blabla " welcome message, then the $ prompt as if I had a SET/STARTUP=OPA0:  E A SHOW SYSTEM shows only the SWAPPER and the STARTUP (cur) processes.   I I rebooted in conversational, checked the STARTUP_P* which are all blank.t   Where is the problem, please?-   Thanks,-   D.   ------------------------------   Date: 6 Jun 2002 11:21:31 -0600= From: briggs@encompasserve.org% Subject: Re: STARTUP stops after boote3 Message-ID: <+LkobghyZ9hW@eisner.encompasserve.org>   W In article <3CFF864E.70E31F05@Free.fr>, Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@Free.fr> writes:u
 > OpenVMS 7.3  > M > I do not remember what I did last time I booted the box, but I restarted itoP > after a while and after message "jumping to bootstrap code" I get the "OpenVMSR > (TM) blabla " welcome message, then the $ prompt as if I had a SET/STARTUP=OPA0: > G > A SHOW SYSTEM shows only the SWAPPER and the STARTUP (cur) processes.a > K > I rebooted in conversational, checked the STARTUP_P* which are all blank.t >   & SET /STARTUP doesn't affect STARTUP_P*   Try:   	SYSBOOT> SHOW /STARTUPm- 	SYSBOOT> SET /STARTUP SYS$SYSTEM:STARTUP.COMe  ' You might also consider following your:    	SYSBOOT> SET /STARTUP OPA0:   with a   	SYSBOOT> SET WRITESYSPARAMS 0  B So that the next time you need to gain control of the system earlyC on in the boot process, you don't do so for every subsequent rebootM as well.   	John Briggs   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 6 Jun 2002 17:16:40 +0100* From: "Richard Brodie" <R.Brodie@rl.ac.uk>% Subject: Re: STARTUP stops after bootr, Message-ID: <ado1sl$1br0@newton.cc.rl.ac.uk>  \ "Didier Morandi" <Didier.Morandi@Free.fr> wrote in message news:3CFF864E.70E31F05@Free.fr...  M > I do not remember what I did last time I booted the box, but I restarted iteP > after a while and after message "jumping to bootstrap code" I get the "OpenVMSR > (TM) blabla " welcome message, then the $ prompt as if I had a SET/STARTUP=OPA0:  L Obvious question: did you do a SET/STARTUP=OPA0: (maybe in a previous boot)?   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 06 Jun 2002 18:29:19 +0200 - From: Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@Free.fr> % Subject: Re: STARTUP stops after boot ' Message-ID: <3CFF8DE0.FC0C7FF1@Free.fr>   N yes, I did, but this parameter is volatile, isn't it? Or it should be recorded" in one of the systartup_Px params.   D.   Richard Brodie wrote:e > ^ > "Didier Morandi" <Didier.Morandi@Free.fr> wrote in message news:3CFF864E.70E31F05@Free.fr... > O > > I do not remember what I did last time I booted the box, but I restarted itlR > > after a while and after message "jumping to bootstrap code" I get the "OpenVMST > > (TM) blabla " welcome message, then the $ prompt as if I had a SET/STARTUP=OPA0: > N > Obvious question: did you do a SET/STARTUP=OPA0: (maybe in a previous boot)?   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 06 Jun 2002 18:38:12 +0200N- From: Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@Free.fr>s% Subject: Re: STARTUP stops after booti' Message-ID: <3CFF8FF5.C5E5EB17@Free.fr>o  	 works now  tx D.   Richard Brodie wrote:  > ^ > "Didier Morandi" <Didier.Morandi@Free.fr> wrote in message news:3CFF864E.70E31F05@Free.fr... > O > > I do not remember what I did last time I booted the box, but I restarted it R > > after a while and after message "jumping to bootstrap code" I get the "OpenVMST > > (TM) blabla " welcome message, then the $ prompt as if I had a SET/STARTUP=OPA0: > N > Obvious question: did you do a SET/STARTUP=OPA0: (maybe in a previous boot)?   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 6 Jun 2002 08:28:25 -0400* From: WILLIAM WEBB <WWEBB1@email.usps.gov>) Subject: RE: Storage of Conslidated Mediao- Message-ID: <0033000066983780000002L002*@MHS>h  3 =0A>My strategy is to keep all of it, forever.  :-)u  2 I understand that there are some weirdos out there5 who use their garages for the storage of automobiles.d   WWWebb     -----Original Message-----/ From: Info-VAX-Request@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNET & Sent: Wednesday, June 05, 2002 9:46 PMB To: Webb, William W Raleigh, NC; Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNET) Subject: RE: Storage of Conslidated Mediat    H >I was curious how other systems managers handle storage and purging of=  H >both CDROMs and manuals.  I'm running OpenVMS 7.2-1 on all nodes (with=  F >the exception of a retiring VAX 6.2) and really don't see a reason to? >go back to older versions of any of the layered products.  The E >Freeware CD seems to be commulative and the older fireware CDs don'tt >do me any good.  H I don't think the freeware is cumulative, but I can't think of an examp= le off the top of my head._  F The firmware CDs are not cumulative either.  Due to space limitations,H firmware for platforms that haven't changed for something like 2 years = is& no longer included on the current CDs.  B Layered products are sometimes dropped from the consolidated kits.  0 My strategy is to keep all of it, forever.  :-)=   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 06 Jun 2002 13:51:48 +0100c( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1>) Subject: Re: Storage of Conslidated Median) Message-ID: <3CFF5AE4.83DD57E7@127.0.0.1>i   WILLIAM WEBB wrote:  > 2 > >My strategy is to keep all of it, forever.  :-) > 4 > I understand that there are some weirdos out there7 > who use their garages for the storage of automobiles.    Hey I got a garage now.i  G The driveway holds 4 automobiles, I'm thinking of extending the garage,p I only need space for 2 cars.e   -- i( Regards, Nic Clews CSC Computer Sciences nclews at csc dot coma   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 06 Jun 2002 13:00:21 GMTO1 From: LESLIE@JRLVAX.HOUSTON.RR.COM (Jerry Leslie) ) Subject: Re: Storage of Conslidated Mediaa< Message-ID: <F1JL8.159501$9F5.8780223@typhoon.austin.rr.com>  + WILLIAM WEBB (WWEBB1@email.usps.gov) wrote:y5 : =0A>My strategy is to keep all of it, forever.  :-). : 4 : I understand that there are some weirdos out there7 : who use their garages for the storage of automobiles.t :  : WWWebb : F Yeah, but here in Texas, the tree huggers would get upset if we built  garages for Texas-sized SUVs:n  &   http://poseur.4x4.org/futuresuv.html   The Future of SUVs  $ Be sure to check out the order form.  2 --Jerry Leslie   (my opinions are strictly my own)9   Note: leslie@jrlvax.houston.rr.com is invalid for emailr   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 06 Jun 2002 16:17:12 GMT 0 From: Leonard Fehskens <len.fehskens@compaq.com>Y Subject: Re: The Press and the IA-64 Port (was Re: Another analyst says VMS port won't bet; Message-ID: <Xns92257D28DB274LenNewsgroupID@16.105.248.153>r  ( "John Vottero" <John@mvpsi.com> wrote in( news:uftenf12kcjm0d@news.supernews.com:   E > It's very difficult to have any faith in a president that says "OureB > strategy is to help Microsoft conquer the Datacentre. The era of> > proprietary systems is over".  Does he not understand what a= > proprietary system is?  Does he think that Microsoft offers$A > non-proprietary systems?  Does he think that Windows NT is lessRG > propritary than OpenVMS?  If he doesn't understand fundementel issues ) > such as this, why is he the president? d  D Because your definition of proprietary is not the fundamental issue.F It doesn't matter if the operating system has only one supplier.  WhatD matters is that the boxes, and the desired applications that run on 3 those boxes, are available from multiple suppliers.i   len.   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 6 Jun 2002 12:02:09 -05001 From: "Dave Gudewicz" <david.gudewicz@abbott.com>bY Subject: Re: The Press and the IA-64 Port (was Re: Another analyst says VMS port won't bed1 Message-ID: <ado4l9$a7f$1@fizban.pprd.abbott.com>    Len,  D Your definition of the word proprietary is interesting and I for one disagree with it.  Sorry.c   -- Dave...   L Let me make the superstitions of a nation and I care not who makes its laws. -----Mark Twainp  = "Leonard Fehskens" <len.fehskens@compaq.com> wrote in messagec5 news:Xns92257D28DB274LenNewsgroupID@16.105.248.153... * > "John Vottero" <John@mvpsi.com> wrote in) > news:uftenf12kcjm0d@news.supernews.com:a >tG > > It's very difficult to have any faith in a president that says "Our D > > strategy is to help Microsoft conquer the Datacentre. The era of@ > > proprietary systems is over".  Does he not understand what a? > > proprietary system is?  Does he think that Microsoft offersaC > > non-proprietary systems?  Does he think that Windows NT is lessdI > > propritary than OpenVMS?  If he doesn't understand fundementel issuesm* > > such as this, why is he the president? >cF > Because your definition of proprietary is not the fundamental issue.H > It doesn't matter if the operating system has only one supplier.  WhatE > matters is that the boxes, and the desired applications that run ont5 > those boxes, are available from multiple suppliers.d >  > len.   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 06 Jun 2002 17:31:53 GMTs0 From: Leonard Fehskens <len.fehskens@compaq.com>Y Subject: Re: The Press and the IA-64 Port (was Re: Another analyst says VMS port won't bec; Message-ID: <Xns922589D0BD2C9LenNewsgroupID@16.105.248.153>n  4 "Dave Gudewicz" <david.gudewicz@abbott.com> wrote in* news:ado4l9$a7f$1@fizban.pprd.abbott.com:   F > Your definition of the word proprietary is interesting and I for one > disagree with it.  Sorry.y  D I didn't say it was a definition of proprietary.  I said it was whatJ mattered.  And it is indeed what matters to most customers.  "Proprietary"1 is just a word vendors use to malign one another.    len.   ------------------------------  * Date: Thursday, 06 Jun 2002 21:06:16 -0600! From: Adndrew@novaresponse.com.au  Subject: Urgent News Flash/ Message-ID: <06060221.0616@novaresponse.com.au>    URGENT NEWSFLASH  @ The government has installed BLACK BOXES into ISPs to watch your Internet surfing.   C When you are targeted, the first you will know is the KNOCK AT YOURt DOOR and the JAIL SENTENCE.i  < If you think you have cleaned your computer - you are WRONG.  C They can recover from your PC every single picture or item you havef ever watched on the Internet..  6 You need protection. You need an Evidence Eliminator.    Click Here.o  # http://www.geocities.com/testee234/y   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 06 Jun 2002 02:46:39 -0400o- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>a Subject: Re: VMS/PMDF probleml, Message-ID: <3CFF0548.35AE7132@videotron.ca>   Mark North wrote:eY > The last line complains about 'file create failed', but I can't see why, there's plentyy$ > of diskspace, we don't use quotas.  J If you have a version limit of 2 on the directory, and you try to create 3K instances of a process that sends its output to the same name log file, therK creation of the 3rd instance will fail because to create the 3rd version oflM the file, it will require to delete the first version, but the later is stillg* opened by the 1st instance of the process.  K Another possibility: You have 2 instances running. (instance one writing to   ;1, instance two writing to ;2.)  + Instance 2 bombs, but instance 1 continues.m  K When you try to restart the 2nd instance, it will try to create ;3 but that Q will fail because it will be unable to delete ;1 (preserving ;2 and creating ;3).o   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 06 Jun 2002 11:02:46 +0100O( From: Martyn <mpattKNICKERS@bigfoot.com> Subject: Re: VMS/PMDF problemo* Message-ID: <3CFF3346.4080202@bigfoot.com>   Run out of file headers?< Reached the max version number for one of the output files ?     Mark North wrote:.  
 >Hi everyone,m > M >We are having a prob on one of our VMS systems that has just surfaced today.- > L >Whenever PMDF tries to spawn a process it returns a "Detached process login >failure" error. >-X >The last line complains about 'file create failed', but I can't see why, there's plenty# >of diskspace, we don't use quotas.  >e9 >Can anyone shed any light on what might be causing this?c >t >  >OPCOM output: >m9 >%%%%%%%%%%%  OPCOM   6-JUN-2002 16:25:05.37  %%%%%%%%%%%i) >Message from user AUDIT$SERVER on LURAC1hT >Security alarm (SECURITY) and security audit (SECURITY) on LURAC1, system id: 358729 >Auditable event:          Detached process login failureo2 >Event time:                6-JUN-2002 16:25:05.36+ >PID:                      20800284        s+ >Process name:             <PMDF-03100311> r+ >Username:                 SYSTEM          p' >Process owner:            [COM,SYSTEM]tH >Image name:               $6$DKB0:[SYS0.SYSCOMMON.][SYSEXE]LOGINOUT.EXE= >Status:                   %RMS-E-CRE, ACP file create failedy >h >_ >e >Thanks. >f >Mark North  >UNIX systems specilaist* >La Trobe Univerity, Melbourne, Australia. > ! >Email: mark.north@latrobe.edu.aur >  t >    -- a, Remove KNICKERS before replying by Email ;-)   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 6 Jun 2002 13:06:47 +0200$ From: "Peter Flunger" <p-i-b@gmx.at> Subject: Re: VMS/PMDF problemd0 Message-ID: <adnfob$d3k$1@newsreader1.netway.at>  5 "Mark North" <ccmn@morpheus.its.latrobe.edu.au> wroteo > G > We are having a prob on one of our VMS systems that has just surfaceds today. >cG > Whenever PMDF tries to spawn a process it returns a "Detached process) logine > failure" error.i >yJ > The last line complains about 'file create failed', but I can't see why, there's plenty$ > of diskspace, we don't use quotas.  0 try to create such a file manually ( logfile ? )' and see the seconary error message thatmB ( most of the times ) comes with RMS-E-CRE, ACP file create failed9 That should give you a pretty good idea of what is wrong.t Peters   ------------------------------  * Date: Thu, 6 Jun 2002 11:05:38 +0000 (UTC) From: david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk Subject: Re: VMS/PMDF probleme+ Message-ID: <adnfm2$672$1@aquila.mdx.ac.uk>?  d In article <admscb$s7t$1@news.latrobe.edu.au>, ccmn@morpheus.its.latrobe.edu.au (Mark North) writes:
 >Hi everyone,s >eM >We are having a prob on one of our VMS systems that has just surfaced today.n >eL >Whenever PMDF tries to spawn a process it returns a "Detached process login >failure" error. >.X >The last line complains about 'file create failed', but I can't see why, there's plenty# >of diskspace, we don't use quotas.o >a9 >Can anyone shed any light on what might be causing this?  >   % What version of VMS are you running ?aM Prior to version 7.2 you could get a problem with running out of file headerseD on large disks. (Large disks being anything bigger than a 1GB disk).J (This is somewhat similar to running out of inodes on a Unix file system).  J The defaults for initialising a disk were still what they had been for VMSN 20 years ago and although the system was meant to allow the indexf.sys file toI automatically grow to allow more headers there was a limit to how far it  N could grow. (The number of extents making up the indexf.sys file was limited).  M If this is the problem you can get a temporary reprieve by getting rid of anygL unnecessary files on the disk eg old log files etc - thereby releasing their file headers for use. L The only way to permanently fix it though would be to do an image backup andK restore of the disk. A simple image backup and restore will consolidate theo indexf.sys file.    
 David Webb VMS and Unix team leader CCSS Middlesex University      g   >m >OPCOM output: > 9 >%%%%%%%%%%%  OPCOM   6-JUN-2002 16:25:05.37  %%%%%%%%%%%g) >Message from user AUDIT$SERVER on LURAC1aT >Security alarm (SECURITY) and security audit (SECURITY) on LURAC1, system id: 358729 >Auditable event:          Detached process login failure,2 >Event time:                6-JUN-2002 16:25:05.36+ >PID:                      20800284        c+ >Process name:             <PMDF-03100311> n+ >Username:                 SYSTEM          p' >Process owner:            [COM,SYSTEM]AH >Image name:               $6$DKB0:[SYS0.SYSCOMMON.][SYSEXE]LOGINOUT.EXE= >Status:                   %RMS-E-CRE, ACP file create failed1 >7 >  >0 >Thanks. >i >Mark Northi >UNIX systems specilaist* >La Trobe Univerity, Melbourne, Australia. >3! >Email: mark.north@latrobe.edu.auM   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 06 Jun 2002 13:28:22 GMTr( From: "Rich Bjers" <RBjers@Cinci.RR.Com> Subject: Re: VMS/PMDF problem 8 Message-ID: <WrJL8.16866$zh2.7824762@twister.neo.rr.com>  L PMDF will create over time a large number of log files and when this versionI number reaches 32,767 you will need to rename the files version number toe& something smaller (i.e. ;1, ;2, etc.).   Thanks,t  
 Richard Bjerse     --    @ "Mark North" <ccmn@morpheus.its.latrobe.edu.au> wrote in message( news:admscb$s7t$1@news.latrobe.edu.au... > Hi everyone, >AG > We are having a prob on one of our VMS systems that has just surfacedg today. >tG > Whenever PMDF tries to spawn a process it returns a "Detached process  loginu > failure" error.  > J > The last line complains about 'file create failed', but I can't see why, there's plenty$ > of diskspace, we don't use quotas. > : > Can anyone shed any light on what might be causing this? >  >  > OPCOM output:h >a: > %%%%%%%%%%%  OPCOM   6-JUN-2002 16:25:05.37  %%%%%%%%%%%* > Message from user AUDIT$SERVER on LURAC1K > Security alarm (SECURITY) and security audit (SECURITY) on LURAC1, system 	 id: 35872A: > Auditable event:          Detached process login failure3 > Event time:                6-JUN-2002 16:25:05.36e$ > PID:                      20800284+ > Process name:             <PMDF-03100311>h" > Username:                 SYSTEM( > Process owner:            [COM,SYSTEM]I > Image name:               $6$DKB0:[SYS0.SYSCOMMON.][SYSEXE]LOGINOUT.EXEv> > Status:                   %RMS-E-CRE, ACP file create failed >- >- >-	 > Thanks.a >  > Mark North > UNIX systems specilaistc+ > La Trobe Univerity, Melbourne, Australia.: >A" > Email: mark.north@latrobe.edu.au   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 6 Jun 2002 08:17:09 -0400* From: WILLIAM WEBB <WWEBB1@email.usps.gov>> Subject: RE: Would you like to see this on the VMS freeware CD- Message-ID: <0033000066982144000002L042*@MHS>n  # =0AEnhancement for JSTARS, perhaps?o :^)    WWWebb   -----Original Message-----/ From: Info-VAX-Request@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNETA$ Sent: Tuesday, June 04, 2002 5:48 PMB To: Webb, William W Raleigh, NC; Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNET> Subject: RE: Would you like to see this on the VMS freeware CD    : In article <3CFD05DF.71EAAF74@hp.com.doom>, Forrest Kenney$ <Forrest.Kenney@hp.com.doom> writes:  H >     1) These toys are not supported, we have only tested the joystick=   > driver with two units anH >          old Microsoft sidewinder, and a Thrustmaster TOPGUN unit.  T= hisd > is way to small aMA >          sample to promise they will work with any random unit.   H So extensive user testing would be required by anyone planning on using=  - this in production -- with real missiles :-)=m   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 06 Jun 2002 09:06:01 +0200g9 From: Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com> , Subject: Re: [Change topic]:  USofA'an coins' Message-ID: <3CFF09D9.C6A62316@aaa.com>-  A Hm, the *REAL* problem here, from a greenhouse gases perspective,m> is that the pump should have counted $3 to 4 $USD / gallon :-(   Jan-Erik Sderholm.s     Bill Todd wrote: > L > By the way, I thought to check at the pump yesterday when I filled up.  At > $1.349/gallon,   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 06 Jun 2002 09:41:24 +0100o( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1>, Subject: Re: [Change topic]:  USofA'an coins( Message-ID: <3CFF2034.F4DA4CA@127.0.0.1>   Bill Todd wrote: > L > By the way, I thought to check at the pump yesterday when I filled up.  AtM > $1.349/gallon, 10.001 gallons still cost $13.49, so either the pump roundedpK > to the nearest penny or truncated to the last penny (it's kind of hard to2G > control the flow to an indicated 0.001 gallon, so I didn't check thata< > aspect - the next data point I got was 10.009 for $13.50).  A At my local petrol (gas) station, I'm paying GBP 0.738 per litre.   # All figures are now approximate....s  2 4.546 litres = 1 (UK) Gallon = 3.35 GBP per gallon   10 gallons = 33.50 GBP  D Exchange rate of 1.46 dollars per GBP, that's $48.91 for 10 gallons.   How much did you pay again? :-(0  B (When I was on Orkney in March, I was paying GBP 0.855 per litre.)   -- T( Regards, Nic Clews CSC Computer Sciences nclews at csc dot comh   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 06 Jun 2002 08:21:26 -0400d2 From: Atlant Schmidt <atlantnospam@mindspring.com>, Subject: Re: [Change topic]:  USofA'an coins. Message-ID: <3CFF53C6.E6F6CAF2@mindspring.com>   Jan-Erik Sderholm wrote:y  C > Hm, the *REAL* problem here, from a greenhouse gases perspective,r@ > is that the pump should have counted $3 to 4 $USD / gallon :-(  ? No way! We're "Muricans!" and it says right in our Constitutionf< somewhere that it's not only our right, but our *OBLIGATION*@ to use up as many of the Earth's resources as possible. Besides,? if they raised the price, the decrease in consumptionwould meanr? fewer profits for oil companies (and thus, Bush, Chenney, etc.)l Can't have none of that!  > (Our Constitution used to talk about things like "Free speech"F and "elections", but since that little coup d'etat back on 2000.12.12, they've re-written it a bit.):   Atlant   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2002.312 ************************