1 INFO-VAX	Fri, 07 Jun 2002	Volume 2002 : Issue 313       Contents: Re: "Tru64 and OpenVMS Times"  Re: "Tru64 and OpenVMS Times"  Re: "Tru64 and OpenVMS Times"  Re: "Tru64 and OpenVMS Times"  Re: "Tru64 and OpenVMS Times" 1 %PCSIUI-E-PRIVCLASS1 when using PRODUCT with PIPE 5 Re: %PCSIUI-E-PRIVCLASS1 when using PRODUCT with PIPE  Re: (About) Open to HP4 Re: A dvdwrite(r)-Program: save 4.3 GB on a DVD-R(W)4 Re: A dvdwrite(r)-Program: save 4.3 GB on a DVD-R(W)4 Re: A dvdwrite(r)-Program: save 4.3 GB on a DVD-R(W)4 Re: A dvdwrite(r)-Program: save 4.3 GB on a DVD-R(W)( AlphaServer 1000A Operator Control Panel, Re: AlphaServer 1000A Operator Control Panel, Re: AlphaServer 1000A Operator Control Panel> Carly as a speaker (was - RE: Carly was here in ZKO yesterday) Carly was here in ZKO yesterday # Re: Carly was here in ZKO yesterday # Re: Carly was here in ZKO yesterday # Re: Carly was here in ZKO yesterday # Re: Carly was here in ZKO yesterday # Re: Carly was here in ZKO yesterday # Re: Carly was here in ZKO yesterday # Re: Carly was here in ZKO yesterday # Re: Carly was here in ZKO yesterday # Re: Carly was here in ZKO yesterday # Re: Carly was here in ZKO yesterday # Re: Carly was here in ZKO yesterday # Re: Carly was here in ZKO yesterday # Re: Carly was here in ZKO yesterday # Re: Carly was here in ZKO yesterday  Re: Could linux become VMS?  Re: Could linux become VMS?  Re: Could linux become VMS?  Re: Could linux become VMS?  Re: dlt tape spaceP Re: ES-40 slower than AS-4100 was Re: Running Test and Production systems on difP Re: ES-40 slower than AS-4100 was Re: Running Test and Production systems on difP Re: ES-40 slower than AS-4100 was Re: Running Test and Production systems on difP Re: ES-40 slower than AS-4100 was Re: Running Test and Production systems on dif Re: Help tuning NISCS_MAX_PKTSZ  Re: Help tuning NISCS_MAX_PKTSZ = Re: How to put my VMS box on a BroadBand Connection (part II) = Re: How to put my VMS box on a BroadBand Connection (part II) = Re: How to put my VMS box on a BroadBand Connection (part II)   HP Alphaservers and Lan Consoles$ Re: HP Alphaservers and Lan Consoles# Re: IT world becoming like lawyers? * Re: just got this - OpenVMS faxing utility* Re: just got this - OpenVMS faxing utility* Re: just got this - OpenVMS faxing utility* Re: just got this - OpenVMS faxing utility* Re: just got this - OpenVMS faxing utility* Re: just got this - OpenVMS faxing utility# Re: LBR$ (library) condition values # Re: LBR$ (library) condition values 3 Re: Library files as high performance file system ? 3 Re: Library files as high performance file system ? 3 Re: Library files as high performance file system ? 3 Re: Library files as high performance file system ? 3 Re: Library files as high performance file system ? 3 Re: Library files as high performance file system ? 3 Re: Library files as high performance file system ? 3 Re: Library files as high performance file system ?  Re: Logging user usage Re: Logging user usage Re: low-end VMS = Re: low-end VMS (was: Re: Mark Gorham's Beer Bash in Reading) = Re: low-end VMS (was: Re: Mark Gorham's Beer Bash in Reading) = Re: low-end VMS (was: Re: Mark Gorham's Beer Bash in Reading) & Re: Mark Gorham's Beer Bash in Reading& Re: Mark Gorham's Beer Bash in Reading& Re: Mark Gorham's Beer Bash in Reading& Re: Mark Gorham's Beer Bash in Reading& Re: Mark Gorham's Beer Bash in Reading& Re: Mark Gorham's Beer Bash in Reading2 Re: New hobbyist cluster audit server hang on boot Re: No new Alpha sales Re: Open Letter to HP  Re: Open Letter to HP  Re: Open Letter to HP  Re: Open Letter to HP  Re: Open Letter to HP G Re: OpenVMS, Volume Desktop OS (Re: Mark Gorham's Beer Bash in Reading) " REPOST OF DS10L 512MB 40GB SpecialP Re: Running Test and Production systems on different Galaxy instances in one ES4 Re: Show cluster not working Re: STARTUP stops after boot Re: STARTUP stops after boot Re: STARTUP stops after boot$ Re: TCP socket communication queries Re: The HP 21-point planP Re: The Press and the IA-64 Port (was Re: Another analyst says VMS port won't beP Re: The Press and the IA-64 Port (was Re: Another analyst says VMS port won't beP Re: The Press and the IA-64 Port (was Re: Another analyst says VMS port won't be xtoolkit error  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 06 Jun 2002 18:39:34 GMT 0 From: "warren sander" <warren.sander@compaq.com>& Subject: Re: "Tru64 and OpenVMS Times"2 Message-ID: <G%NL8.22$_a1.916577@news.cpqcorp.net>  K Please don't start all the arm-waving etc that happened from the statements + on May 7th. This 'special edition' was from G may 7th and hasn't been changed as some messages have based on customer 	 feedback.    What is important is( 1) OpenVMS and Tru64 UNIX are continuing@ 2) OpenVMS Times and Tru64 UNIX times were merged into HPS Times 3) HPS was renamed ASD7 4) So HPS Times is being renamed to Alpha Systems Times I 5) If you signed up for HPS Times, OpenVMS Times and/or Tru64 UNIX Times, G and clicked the 'ok to send information' button you got this mail (also L folks from other lists that also requested to get information/update mails).K 6) If you want off the list just send mail to alphasystemstimes@hp.com with  UNSUBSCRIBE in the subjectD [you can also use: alphasystemstimes@compaq.com, openvmstimes@hp.comI openvmstimes@compaq.com, tru64unixtimes@hp.com tru64unixtimes@compaq.com, & hpstimes@hp.com, hpstimes@compaq.com ]  I And NO I am not the one who sent, wrote or authorized the mailing. I just J keep the web pages up to date and handle getting the subscription requests' into a format to get into the database.    -warren    --B ------------------------------------------------------------------6 Warren Sander                        OpenVMS MarketingG Hewlett-Packard Company              Work:  warren.sander@remove.hp.com L 200 Forest Street MR01-3/J1          Personal: sander@remove.ma.ultranet.com3 Marlboro, MA 01752                   (508) 467-4875 5    My opinions are my own and I only speak for myself ,          Read http://www.openvms.compaq.com/B ------------------------------------------------------------------        5 "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote in message 8 news:boLL8.8932$Qg.822799@bin6.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com... > H > "Phillip Helbig" <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> wrote in message7 > news:01KILWGZOWM896WQWC@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com...  >  > ...  > D > > Folks, read this document in full.  It is more or less what manyF > > doubting Thomases in this newsgroup have been crying for: a clear,I > > unwavering commitment to ALPHA "at least until 2011", which is a LONG H > > time in the IT industry.  It doesn't say "we will stop support afterJ > > that".  The CLEAR message is, support is guaranteed until then, and ofC > > course longer if needed by customers.  The commitment to VMS is H > > indefinite.  This is an official HP document.  Put it on your bossesH > > desk if he wants you to move off of VMS at any time, or off of ALPHA > > before there is a need to. > G > If you believe you can trust such a document, I have an even stronger E > 'commitment to Alpha' document (through EV10, with specific feature E > commitments in EV8) written by two senior Compaq VPs to sell you...  > H > *That's* why people are demanding reassurance from the very top:  evenH > that's not binding, of course, but at least it leaves the CEO somewhat# > embarrassed if she reneges on it.  >  > - bill >  >  >    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 06 Jun 2002 17:50:57 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> & Subject: Re: "Tru64 and OpenVMS Times", Message-ID: <3CFFD93F.365DBD34@videotron.ca>   warren sander wrote:M > Please don't start all the arm-waving etc that happened from the statements - > on May 7th. This 'special edition' was from I > may 7th and hasn't been changed as some messages have based on customer  > feedback.   I The thing is that this is the second time that this edition WAS CHANGED.    I So, when will HP stop changing ist roadmaps so that we know what the real I roadmap is going to be ? A roadmap that changes every 2 weeks in useless.    ------------------------------   Date: 6 Jun 2002 15:48:15 -0700 ( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)& Subject: Re: "Tru64 and OpenVMS Times"= Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0206061448.268b28ac@posting.google.com>   j "warren sander" <warren.sander@compaq.com> wrote in message news:<G%NL8.22$_a1.916577@news.cpqcorp.net>...M > Please don't start all the arm-waving etc that happened from the statements - > on May 7th. This 'special edition' was from I > may 7th and hasn't been changed as some messages have based on customer  > feedback.  >  > What is important is* > 1) OpenVMS and Tru64 UNIX are continuingB > 2) OpenVMS Times and Tru64 UNIX times were merged into HPS Times > 3) HPS was renamed ASD9 > 4) So HPS Times is being renamed to Alpha Systems Times K > 5) If you signed up for HPS Times, OpenVMS Times and/or Tru64 UNIX Times, I > and clicked the 'ok to send information' button you got this mail (also N > folks from other lists that also requested to get information/update mails).M > 6) If you want off the list just send mail to alphasystemstimes@hp.com with  > UNSUBSCRIBE in the subjectF > [you can also use: alphasystemstimes@compaq.com, openvmstimes@hp.comK > openvmstimes@compaq.com, tru64unixtimes@hp.com tru64unixtimes@compaq.com, ( > hpstimes@hp.com, hpstimes@compaq.com ] > K > And NO I am not the one who sent, wrote or authorized the mailing. I just L > keep the web pages up to date and handle getting the subscription requests) > into a format to get into the database.  > 	 > -warren  >  > --D > ------------------------------------------------------------------8 > Warren Sander                        OpenVMS MarketingI > Hewlett-Packard Company              Work:  warren.sander@remove.hp.com N > 200 Forest Street MR01-3/J1          Personal: sander@remove.ma.ultranet.com5 > Marlboro, MA 01752                   (508) 467-4875 7 >    My opinions are my own and I only speak for myself . >          Read http://www.openvms.compaq.com/D > ------------------------------------------------------------------ >   K I am anxious to see the "Itanium VMS Times" ... when does that hit the web?    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 07 Jun 2002 02:10:56 GMT 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> & Subject: Re: "Tru64 and OpenVMS Times"' Message-ID: <3D0019D3.BB6EDAE4@fsi.net>    JF Mezei wrote:  >  > Jan-Erik Sderholm wrote: G > > "A special edition of the "Times" newsletter, regarding OpenVMS and ( > > Tru64 in the new hp, can be found atN > > http://www.compaq.com/hps/download/Tru64UNIX_OpenVMS_Times_Rev2_052202.pdf > N > I got the same in my mailbox. The text was in microsoft format, one line per) > paragraph instead of one line per line.  > L > Interesting that they mention that the old Compaq High Performance SystemsP > Group was renamed to the Alpha Systems Division. The message I read is that HPL > doesn't intend to continue any of the Compaq High Performance Systems once > Alpha is no longer available.  > O > Has HP announced any plans to move VMS to some other division (or get its own N > division) once it runs on that IA64 thing and the Alpha Ssystems Division is > wound down ?    E Hhmmm... Hoff posted some C code recently which includes some opening @ comments that seem appropriate here - something about a softwareA development group, LLP. If I can find it, I'll post a link to it.    --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 07 Jun 2002 04:03:23 GMT - From: "John E. Malmberg" <wb8tyw@qsl.network> & Subject: Re: "Tru64 and OpenVMS Times"* Message-ID: <3D002D7A.1060308@qsl.network>   David J. Dachtera wrote: > G > Hhmmm... Hoff posted some C code recently which includes some opening B > comments that seem appropriate here - something about a softwareC > development group, LLP. If I can find it, I'll post a link to it.   C A boilerplate copyright statement for all Compaq products that was  B issued after merger was announced.  It has nothing to do with any ! functional organization of units.      -John  wb8tyw@qsl.network Personal Opinion Only.   ------------------------------   Date: 6 Jun 2002 16:34:28 -0600 - From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) : Subject: %PCSIUI-E-PRIVCLASS1 when using PRODUCT with PIPE3 Message-ID: <LXX+htM9+SU3@eisner.encompasserve.org>   E    Here's a new one I just found.  First let me say I think somewhere A    there's a disclaimer that PIPE doesn't work with everything.   A    OpenVMS Alpha 7.2-1.   Note that PCSIUI is POLYCENTER Software "    Installation Utility, not PIPE.  G    So why does PCSIUI care about SYSLCK only when the output is a pipe?      $ product show historyN ---------------------------------- ----------- -------------------------------I PRODUCT                             KIT TYPE    OPERATION   DATE AND TIME O ----------------------------------- ----------- ------------------------------- P CPQ AXPVMS MOZILLA M1.0             Full LP     Install     06-JUN-2002 13:09:15   ...    $ pipe product show history N ---------------------------------- ----------- -------------------------------I PRODUCT                             KIT TYPE    OPERATION   DATE AND TIME O ----------------------------------- ----------- ------------------------------- P CPQ AXPVMS MOZILLA M1.0             Full LP     Install     06-JUN-2002 13:09:15   ...   1 $ pipe product show history | type/page sys$input 9 %PCSIUI-E-PRIVCLASS1, operation requires SYSLCK privilege M %PCSIUI-E-ABORT, operation terminated due to an unrecoverable error condition    $ set process/privilege=syslck1 $ pipe product show history | type/page sys$input N ---------------------------------- ----------- -------------------------------I PRODUCT                             KIT TYPE    OPERATION   DATE AND TIME O ----------------------------------- ----------- ------------------------------- P CPQ AXPVMS MOZILLA M1.0             Full LP     Install     06-JUN-2002 13:09:15   ...    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 06 Jun 2002 16:52:23 -0500 C From: "Craig A. Berry" <craig.berry@nospam.SignalTreeSolutions.com> > Subject: Re: %PCSIUI-E-PRIVCLASS1 when using PRODUCT with PIPEH Message-ID: <craig.berry-8BDBE5.16522306062002@news.directvinternet.com>  3 In article <LXX+htM9+SU3@eisner.encompasserve.org>, /  koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) wrote:  > I >    So why does PCSIUI care about SYSLCK only when the output is a pipe?   3 > $ pipe product show history | type/page sys$input ; > %PCSIUI-E-PRIVCLASS1, operation requires SYSLCK privilege O > %PCSIUI-E-ABORT, operation terminated due to an unrecoverable error condition   > Interesting.  I suppose it's possible PCSI really does want a B system-wide lock on one of the PPFs but can't get it because PIPE H already has it open.  Or it could just be a bug where it does something E that tries to set the terminal characteristics on SYS$PIPE but since  D that's not a terminal it falls back into some error code that isn't  entirely applicable.   ------------------------------   Date: 6 Jun 2002 15:42:33 -0700 ( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski) Subject: Re: (About) Open to HP = Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0206061442.5c363583@posting.google.com>   r jodonnell@hrblock.com (Jason O'Donnell) wrote in message news:<9059bf6b.0206060946.2591b69b@posting.google.com>... > All, > F > Thank you for your comments and input.  However, I have noticed some9 > flaming between posters.  We do not need to go there...  > F > It is simply my position, apparently supported by some and disagreed< > with by others, that some television advertising is not anH > unreasonable expense for promoting a premier product like OpenVMS thatG > should be core to HP strategies.  Other companies like IBM and Oracle  > have dones so. > G > It is also my position that unless a significant advertising compaign C > is undertaken, the public will be unaware of this product and the G > decision makers will be concerned about its future (HP EOLing it like A > MPE) and migrate current applications from OpenVMS or use othere, > platforms for new application development. > G > That being said.  I think ALL VMS lovers can agree that we would likeTH > HP to view OpenVMS as one of their primary platforms.  The question isE > how do we get them to recognize the quality of this product and theSC > financial benefits they can derive from continued development andi. > initiating promotions (at some level)for it? >  > JMOD  G why should they be worried?  They have been told over and over and overoE and over and over by hp that the itanium port will happen, and vms ishB a valuable strategic os to them ... are these decision makers that8 brain dead where they can't read simple english anymore?  # and IBM does "NOT" advertise OS400!    ------------------------------   Date: 6 Jun 2002 16:01:48 -0600l- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)e= Subject: Re: A dvdwrite(r)-Program: save 4.3 GB on a DVD-R(W)a3 Message-ID: <w6i7Z$JkH1J3@eisner.encompasserve.org>   s In article <3cff1e60.0@news.uni-konstanz.de>, vaxinf@chclu.chemie.uni-konstanz.de (Eberhard Heuser-Hofmann) writes:e  H > I want to release my first version of my dvdwrite program for OpenVMS. > * > Get informations via the following page: > , > http://134.34.7.25/~dvdwrite/dvdwrite.html  @ Ok, looking at that I think I understand how I could write a 4GB ODS-2 volume on DVD.  B But how would I read files back from that DVD onto VMS ?  VMS does not have DVD support, does it ?a   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 07 Jun 2002 02:15:25 GMTo1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> = Subject: Re: A dvdwrite(r)-Program: save 4.3 GB on a DVD-R(W)r& Message-ID: <3D001ADF.D514318@fsi.net>   Larry Kilgallen wrote: > u > In article <3cff1e60.0@news.uni-konstanz.de>, vaxinf@chclu.chemie.uni-konstanz.de (Eberhard Heuser-Hofmann) writes:p > J > > I want to release my first version of my dvdwrite program for OpenVMS. > >I, > > Get informations via the following page: > >t. > > http://134.34.7.25/~dvdwrite/dvdwrite.html > B > Ok, looking at that I think I understand how I could write a 4GB > ODS-2 volume on DVD. > D > But how would I read files back from that DVD onto VMS ?  VMS does! > not have DVD support, does it ?   B I think it might, in so far as it has CD-ROM support, it stands toG reason that ODS on DVD is reasonable to expect to work. I can't believeiA he'd post the recording stuff without being able to read what wasi written.   I could be wrong, as always...   -- i David J. Dachterar dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/s   ------------------------------   Date: 6 Jun 2002 21:43:55 -0600c- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)f= Subject: Re: A dvdwrite(r)-Program: save 4.3 GB on a DVD-R(W)i3 Message-ID: <fhoMsMoYs71Q@eisner.encompasserve.org>i  Z In article <3D001ADF.D514318@fsi.net>, "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> writes: > Larry Kilgallen wrote: >> nv >> In article <3cff1e60.0@news.uni-konstanz.de>, vaxinf@chclu.chemie.uni-konstanz.de (Eberhard Heuser-Hofmann) writes: >> RK >> > I want to release my first version of my dvdwrite program for OpenVMS.  >> >- >> > Get informations via the following page:  >> >/ >> > http://134.34.7.25/~dvdwrite/dvdwrite.htmla >>  C >> Ok, looking at that I think I understand how I could write a 4GBn >> ODS-2 volume on DVD.' >> rE >> But how would I read files back from that DVD onto VMS ?  VMS doese" >> not have DVD support, does it ? > D > I think it might, in so far as it has CD-ROM support, it stands toI > reason that ODS on DVD is reasonable to expect to work. I can't believerC > he'd post the recording stuff without being able to read what was 
 > written.  E For CDROM there are VMS drivers, but I don't know about that for DVD.w   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 07 Jun 2002 02:57:04 GMTe1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>t= Subject: Re: A dvdwrite(r)-Program: save 4.3 GB on a DVD-R(W) ' Message-ID: <3D0024A0.7E494BD6@fsi.net>s   Larry Kilgallen wrote: > \ > In article <3D001ADF.D514318@fsi.net>, "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> writes: > > Larry Kilgallen wrote: > >>x > >> In article <3cff1e60.0@news.uni-konstanz.de>, vaxinf@chclu.chemie.uni-konstanz.de (Eberhard Heuser-Hofmann) writes: > >>M > >> > I want to release my first version of my dvdwrite program for OpenVMS.o > >> >/ > >> > Get informations via the following page:G > >> >1 > >> > http://134.34.7.25/~dvdwrite/dvdwrite.htmla > >>E > >> Ok, looking at that I think I understand how I could write a 4GBp > >> ODS-2 volume on DVD.a > >>G > >> But how would I read files back from that DVD onto VMS ?  VMS doesk$ > >> not have DVD support, does it ? > >TF > > I think it might, in so far as it has CD-ROM support, it stands toK > > reason that ODS on DVD is reasonable to expect to work. I can't believetE > > he'd post the recording stuff without being able to read what wass > > written. > G > For CDROM there are VMS drivers, but I don't know about that for DVD.i  E I am not aware of any CD-ROM specific drivers other than DKDRIVER forp@ SCSI disks (mag. or optical) and DQDRIVER for IDE disks (mag. orB optical), and VMS support of ISO-9660 (for non-ODS media). Can you
 enlighten me?m   -- c David J. Dachterai dba DJE Systemsm http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/q   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 06 Jun 2002 23:44:09 GMTn From: dittman@dittman.netg1 Subject: AlphaServer 1000A Operator Control Panele6 Message-ID: <dtSL8.8883$2n4.2453@nwrddc04.gnilink.net>  9 Should the operator control panel on an AlphaServer 1000A- be backlit?- -- a Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.netO= Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/a   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 07 Jun 2002 02:39:16 GMT:1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> 5 Subject: Re: AlphaServer 1000A Operator Control Panel ' Message-ID: <3D002077.79878AAC@fsi.net>    dittman@dittman.net wrote: > ; > Should the operator control panel on an AlphaServer 1000A-
 > be backlit?   $ The ones that I saw weren't, FWIW...   --   David J. Dachtera8 dba DJE Systemsi http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/s   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 07 Jun 2002 03:11:06 GMT ( From: "Mark E. Levy" <mlevy70@attbi.com>5 Subject: Re: AlphaServer 1000A Operator Control Panel ? Message-ID: <evVL8.129881$ux5.180011@rwcrnsc51.ops.asp.att.net>c  & <dittman@dittman.net> wrote in message0 news:dtSL8.8883$2n4.2453@nwrddc04.gnilink.net...; > Should the operator control panel on an AlphaServer 1000AA
 > be backlit?u  4 I've never seen one that was, though they should be.  	 Mark Levyy SMAo   ------------------------------   Date: 6 Jun 2002 15:49:40 GMTi7 From: sy18889@rabmbit.famrp.cosm (Bradford J. Hamilton)nG Subject: Carly as a speaker (was - RE: Carly was here in ZKO yesterday)i! Message-ID: <yPsLXVJ+mdg7@rabbit>y   Thanks, Sue!!!  g In article <TMOL8.27$vb1.940165@news.cpqcorp.net>, "Sue Skonetski" <susan.skonetski@compaq.com> writes: J > I know that this is going to start a lot of discussion but I think it is > worth it.w > # > Don Harbert did the introductionst > H > Without a doubt Carly is the best speaker I have ever heard and a veryL > classy lady.  She used no notes, no podium she spoke for about an hour and& > took questions for about 45 minutes. <snip>  L I was *very* impressed with Carly's ability as a speaker, when I watched theN merger broadcast.  Maybe exceprts from the ZKO talk could be made available onI the web, somewhere?  Dare I ask it, a TV commercial, going "head-to-head"t( against those IBM Linux commercials?	:-)    > Warm Regards,t > Sues >  >  --   Bradford J. Hamilton& braMdhamAilPtoSn@aMtAtPbi.cSom		(home)& sMy1A88P89S@rabMbit.fAmPr.coSm		(work)  ; "All opinions that I express are my own, not my employer's"o "Lose the MAPS"o   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 06 Jun 2002 19:32:03 GMTt2 From: "Sue Skonetski" <susan.skonetski@compaq.com>( Subject: Carly was here in ZKO yesterday2 Message-ID: <TMOL8.27$vb1.940165@news.cpqcorp.net>  H I know that this is going to start a lot of discussion but I think it is	 worth it.2  ! Don Harbert did the introductions   F Without a doubt Carly is the best speaker I have ever heard and a veryJ classy lady.  She used no notes, no podium she spoke for about an hour and$ took questions for about 45 minutes.  E She started out by congratulating OpenVMS on our 25th anniversary andbK commenting on the amount of revenue that VMS has bought in over the last 25t0 years. That number is confidential but its huge.  I She then told us how she had been at MIT and had gone to the mill to meetsD Ken Olson and since that time she had always been impressed with theG products developed by DEC (her word) and the products developed in ZKO.o  K She was straight forward and honest with us, and she said that the roadmaps  are our commitment.o  H I gave her an OpenVMS Ambassadors shirt which she put on and then Jackie4 Kahle gave her a Tru64 and an OpenVMS License plate.  L At one point the ZKO choir sang a funny song that they had written about theJ hp merger when they were gone she got off the stage and went and thank all of them personally.t  I She has  a very clear vision of what she wants and where we are going andnG she has my vote and I would guess most of ZKO, I do not remember anyone I getting a standing ovation in ZKO before (this is New England after all).s  
 Warm Regards,  Suet   ------------------------------  * Date: Thu, 6 Jun 2002 12:37:46 -0700 (PDT). From: Fabio Cardoso <fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br>, Subject: Re: Carly was here in ZKO yesterday@ Message-ID: <20020606193746.97322.qmail@web20202.mail.yahoo.com>  1 Next time record a video (MPEG) of her and put atr   www.openvms.hp.com :-)))     Regardsa   FC  5 --- Sue Skonetski <susan.skonetski@compaq.com> wrote:n- > I know that this is going to start a lot of  > discussion but I think it is > worth it.  > # > Don Harbert did the introductions- > 2 > Without a doubt Carly is the best speaker I have > ever heard and a very 6 > classy lady.  She used no notes, no podium she spoke > for about an hour andu& > took questions for about 45 minutes. > 2 > She started out by congratulating OpenVMS on our > 25th anniversary and2 > commenting on the amount of revenue that VMS has > bought in over the last 252 > years. That number is confidential but its huge. > 2 > She then told us how she had been at MIT and had > gone to the mill to meet3 > Ken Olson and since that time she had always beenv > impressed with the. > products developed by DEC (her word) and the > products developed in ZKO. > 6 > She was straight forward and honest with us, and she > said that the roadmaps > are our commitment.m > 3 > I gave her an OpenVMS Ambassadors shirt which shev > put on and then Jackie6 > Kahle gave her a Tru64 and an OpenVMS License plate. > 3 > At one point the ZKO choir sang a funny song thata > they had written about the5 > hp merger when they were gone she got off the stage  > and went and thank all > of them personally.h > 4 > She has  a very clear vision of what she wants and > where we are going and5 > she has my vote and I would guess most of ZKO, I dos > not remember anyoneh3 > getting a standing ovation in ZKO before (this isL > New England after all).p >  > Warm Regards,  > Suea >  >      =====b ========================== Fbio dos Santos Cardoso OpenVMS System Manager Rio de Janeiro - Brazilo fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br ==========================  2 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!?0 Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com@   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 6 Jun 2002 14:43:00 -05001 From: "Dave Gudewicz" <david.gudewicz@abbott.com>m, Subject: Re: Carly was here in ZKO yesterday1 Message-ID: <adoe30$csn$1@fizban.pprd.abbott.com>f  K Thanks for this news Sue.  Now if we can only hear Carly speak the VMS wordoJ in public forums with ample frequency and amplitude, that would make her a) classy lady in the eyes of many here too.f  I I remember hearing when MC visited ZKO a few years back.  Hope this visit-9 produces more encouraging results for all that read this.r   -- Dave...o  L Let me make the superstitions of a nation and I care not who makes its laws. -----Mark Twain-  = "Sue Skonetski" <susan.skonetski@compaq.com> wrote in messagen, news:TMOL8.27$vb1.940165@news.cpqcorp.net...J > I know that this is going to start a lot of discussion but I think it is > worth it.p >7# > Don Harbert did the introductionsR >fH > Without a doubt Carly is the best speaker I have ever heard and a veryL > classy lady.  She used no notes, no podium she spoke for about an hour and& > took questions for about 45 minutes. >-G > She started out by congratulating OpenVMS on our 25th anniversary andYJ > commenting on the amount of revenue that VMS has bought in over the last 252 > years. That number is confidential but its huge. >MK > She then told us how she had been at MIT and had gone to the mill to meeteF > Ken Olson and since that time she had always been impressed with theI > products developed by DEC (her word) and the products developed in ZKO.E > D > She was straight forward and honest with us, and she said that the roadmaps > are our commitment.- > J > I gave her an OpenVMS Ambassadors shirt which she put on and then Jackie6 > Kahle gave her a Tru64 and an OpenVMS License plate. >yJ > At one point the ZKO choir sang a funny song that they had written about theBL > hp merger when they were gone she got off the stage and went and thank all > of them personally.  >iK > She has  a very clear vision of what she wants and where we are going and-I > she has my vote and I would guess most of ZKO, I do not remember anyone K > getting a standing ovation in ZKO before (this is New England after all).- >- > Warm Regards,- > Sue- >- >-   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 06 Jun 2002 20:09:23 GMT * From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>, Subject: Re: Carly was here in ZKO yesterdayB Message-ID: <TjPL8.146189$%o.13936175@bin3.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>  = "Sue Skonetski" <susan.skonetski@compaq.com> wrote in messageP, news:TMOL8.27$vb1.940165@news.cpqcorp.net...J > I know that this is going to start a lot of discussion but I think it is > worth it.e >.# > Don Harbert did the introductionso >oH > Without a doubt Carly is the best speaker I have ever heard and a veryL > classy lady.  She used no notes, no podium she spoke for about an hour and& > took questions for about 45 minutes.  H I've seen her speak on TV, and she is impressively persuasive.  Which isJ unfortunate, since she is also apparently amoral (not having disclosed theL widening gap between her rosy revenue predictions last fall and the on-going? in-house analyses even to her BoD) and incompetent (in terms ofd@ understanding what's best for her company and its stockholders).   ...E  D > She was straight forward and honest with us, and she said that the roadmaps > are our commitment.   F Exactly how do you know she was honest?  She has certainly given everyC appearance of being so in the past, only to be found out later (the C consistent discrepancies between her rosy forecasts and HP's actualo4 performance being perhaps the most obvious example).   ...9  K > She has  a very clear vision of what she wants and where we are going and I > she has my vote and I would guess most of ZKO, I do not remember anyoneoK > getting a standing ovation in ZKO before (this is New England after all).e  K Yup - she sure knows how to tell people what they want to hear and convincev them she means it.   - bill   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 06 Jun 2002 20:33:39 GMTb2 From: "Sue Skonetski" <susan.skonetski@compaq.com>, Subject: Re: Carly was here in ZKO yesterday1 Message-ID: <DGPL8.3$Cm1.126076@news.cpqcorp.net>c  K Actually she painted a very realistic picture however we are not allowed to 2 discuss hp internal information on a public forum.  & That was what everyone liked the most.   suea  5 "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote in messagee< news:TjPL8.146189$%o.13936175@bin3.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com... >M? > "Sue Skonetski" <susan.skonetski@compaq.com> wrote in messagen. > news:TMOL8.27$vb1.940165@news.cpqcorp.net...L > > I know that this is going to start a lot of discussion but I think it is
 > > worth it.t > >a% > > Don Harbert did the introductionsi > >nJ > > Without a doubt Carly is the best speaker I have ever heard and a veryJ > > classy lady.  She used no notes, no podium she spoke for about an hour andh( > > took questions for about 45 minutes. > J > I've seen her speak on TV, and she is impressively persuasive.  Which isL > unfortunate, since she is also apparently amoral (not having disclosed theE > widening gap between her rosy revenue predictions last fall and the4 on-goingA > in-house analyses even to her BoD) and incompetent (in terms ofrB > understanding what's best for her company and its stockholders). >i > ...c >aF > > She was straight forward and honest with us, and she said that the
 > roadmaps > > are our commitment.e >rH > Exactly how do you know she was honest?  She has certainly given everyE > appearance of being so in the past, only to be found out later (the E > consistent discrepancies between her rosy forecasts and HP's actual 6 > performance being perhaps the most obvious example). >  > ...  > I > > She has  a very clear vision of what she wants and where we are goingD andoK > > she has my vote and I would guess most of ZKO, I do not remember anyone:G > > getting a standing ovation in ZKO before (this is New England afterR all).d >tD > Yup - she sure knows how to tell people what they want to hear and convince > them she means it. >: > - bill >t >e >c   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 06 Jun 2002 22:34:28 +0200r9 From: Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com>r, Subject: Re: Carly was here in ZKO yesterday' Message-ID: <3CFFC754.846D3136@aaa.com>o   Sue Skonetski wrote: > M > Actually she painted a very realistic picture however we are not allowed tos4 > discuss hp internal information on a public forum. >   E To some people, a "realistic picture" could be "if just promoted, VMSoD would take over the world", to others "VMS is already dead" and then+ there are all kinds of flavours in between.D   It depends, as they say...   Jan-Erik Sderholm.i   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 06 Jun 2002 21:43:06 GMT # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>y, Subject: Re: Carly was here in ZKO yesterdayI Message-ID: <KHQL8.238874$t8_.35896@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>t   Sue,  L Here's an idea for you. Scavenge this newsgroup for all the names of the VMSH users who post in comp.os.vms. In most cases these will be people in the trenches, not the executives.3  J Pick 10 people at pseudo-random from this group of newsgroup contributors,E or maybe pick some from North America, some for Australasia/some from@> Europe. Fly them at HP expense to meet with Carly for a 3 hourJ heart-to-heart talk. She'll hear some stuff that she won't hear from HP orL customer execs. We'll hear back in this ng from those whom we know (sort of)' and how to judge what they report back.   L I think this would go a long way in getting the 'truth' out, whatever it mayL be. And it will provide some concrete evidence that she listens to customers> who do real work, as opposed to those that just take meetings.  $ Are you up for suggesting it to her?    = "Sue Skonetski" <susan.skonetski@compaq.com> wrote in messageh, news:TMOL8.27$vb1.940165@news.cpqcorp.net...J > I know that this is going to start a lot of discussion but I think it is > worth it.v > # > Don Harbert did the introductionsu >eH > Without a doubt Carly is the best speaker I have ever heard and a veryL > classy lady.  She used no notes, no podium she spoke for about an hour and& > took questions for about 45 minutes. >DG > She started out by congratulating OpenVMS on our 25th anniversary andoJ > commenting on the amount of revenue that VMS has bought in over the last 252 > years. That number is confidential but its huge. >8K > She then told us how she had been at MIT and had gone to the mill to meetgF > Ken Olson and since that time she had always been impressed with theI > products developed by DEC (her word) and the products developed in ZKO.  >>D > She was straight forward and honest with us, and she said that the roadmaps > are our commitment.i > J > I gave her an OpenVMS Ambassadors shirt which she put on and then Jackie6 > Kahle gave her a Tru64 and an OpenVMS License plate. >nJ > At one point the ZKO choir sang a funny song that they had written about theIL > hp merger when they were gone she got off the stage and went and thank all > of them personally.  >hK > She has  a very clear vision of what she wants and where we are going andaI > she has my vote and I would guess most of ZKO, I do not remember anyonesK > getting a standing ovation in ZKO before (this is New England after all).  >o > Warm Regards,  > Suev >, >t   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 06 Jun 2002 21:49:19 GMTi' From: Jeffrey Chimene <jeff@nospam.net>d, Subject: Re: Carly was here in ZKO yesterday* Message-ID: <3CFFD8D5.32F3C870@nospam.net>   Sue Skonetski wrote:  M > Actually she painted a very realistic picture however we are not allowed to/4 > discuss hp internal information on a public forum.  L And there, Ladies and Gentlemen, lies the difference between open source andO proprietary software. I've made a good living with DEC/CPQ; the transition willvL be painful, but I'm now wary of that closed fist on the rudder of my career.L It's become increasingly obvious that  HPQ is not publicly telling the wholeN story. I fail to see the advantage in such selective disclosure; it's not like1 OVMS on Alpha/Itanium has a any real competition.-  I GNU/Linux software development may be boring, obnoxious, and occasionallyhJ patronizing, but it's Open. HPQ is as bad as MSFT when seen in that light.     -- microsoft free by 2003   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 06 Jun 2002 18:02:13 -0400o- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>b, Subject: Re: Carly was here in ZKO yesterday, Message-ID: <3CFFDBE2.6B69977B@videotron.ca>   Sue Skonetski wrote:G > She started out by congratulating OpenVMS on our 25th anniversary and/M > commenting on the amount of revenue that VMS has bought in over the last 25 2 > years. That number is confidential but its huge.  N What is more important is whether she believes VMS can grow in the FUTURE, now! how much it has done in the past.d  M > She was straight forward and honest with us, and she said that the roadmapse > are our commitment.a  J You mean the one line VMS roadmap that just refers to the "plan of record"K which was that disaster of June 25 2001 ? All that says is that HP will not-J kill VMS until at least 2006. No mention of growth, marketing or trying toJ make VMS look good or fight the predictions from Gartner that it will die.  N Did she speak about Stallard's expectations that VMS customers will eventuallyK migrate to HP-UX ? Until she tackles that issue and categorically denies itkL publicly and fires Stallard for having said so, I will not be convinced that! this is NOT HP's true intentions.     H > She has  a very clear vision of what she wants and where we are going   N I 100% agree with you. However, I am not sure that this vision includes VMS asL a core strategic product. VMS is being maintained on life support like a cow/ is being maintained in a stall to produce milk.'   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 06 Jun 2002 21:47:48 -0400t2 From: rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger), Subject: Re: Carly was here in ZKO yesterdayL Message-ID: <rdeininger-0606022147480001@11cust231.tnt2.nashua.nh.da.uu.net>  < In article <3CFFD8D5.32F3C870@nospam.net>, no.replies wrote:   >Sue Skonetski wrote:h >)N >> Actually she painted a very realistic picture however we are not allowed to5 >> discuss hp internal information on a public forum.- >-M >And there, Ladies and Gentlemen, lies the difference between open source and  >proprietary software. o  E Does Red Hat (for example) discuss their financial details in public?4  H I can't think of a single business that doesn't hold information back to- keep competitors from taking advantage of it.r  : >I've made a good living with DEC/CPQ; the transition willM >be painful, but I'm now wary of that closed fist on the rudder of my career.mM >It's become increasingly obvious that  HPQ is not publicly telling the wholetO >story. I fail to see the advantage in such selective disclosure; it's not likeh2 >OVMS on Alpha/Itanium has a any real competition. >tJ >GNU/Linux software development may be boring, obnoxious, and occasionallyK >patronizing, but it's Open. HPQ is as bad as MSFT when seen in that light.   C What information about VMS that isn't public do you think should be 
 public?  Why?a   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 06 Jun 2002 22:09:35 -0400i2 From: rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger), Subject: Re: Carly was here in ZKO yesterdayL Message-ID: <rdeininger-0606022209350001@11cust231.tnt2.nashua.nh.da.uu.net>  5 In article <3CFFDBE2.6B69977B@videotron.ca>, JF Mezei % <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote:p   >Sue Skonetski wrote:nH >> She started out by congratulating OpenVMS on our 25th anniversary andN >> commenting on the amount of revenue that VMS has bought in over the last 253 >> years. That number is confidential but its huge.e >rO >What is more important is whether she believes VMS can grow in the FUTURE, now)" >how much it has done in the past. >-N >> She was straight forward and honest with us, and she said that the roadmaps >> are our commitment. >cK >You mean the one line VMS roadmap that just refers to the "plan of record"3* >which was that disaster of June 25 2001 ?  J There are much more detailed roadmaps available.  I suspect you know that.  # > All that says is that HP will notk >kill VMS until at least 2006.   It says much more than that.  . > No mention of growth, marketing or trying toK >make VMS look good or fight the predictions from Gartner that it will die.   E Gartner has been responded to repeatedly.  They are a difficult case,yG since they don't pay attention to facts.  (Maybe you should see if they  are hiring.)    O >Did she speak about Stallard's expectations that VMS customers will eventually5 >migrate to HP-UX ?   E Stallard has no such expectations.  You have spent the past few weekssH taking a single sentence out of context and stretching it to this absurdH statement you keep repeating.  I don't think Scott wrote that sentence. I If you think he wrote (or read) every word in the document, I suspect youd> have a broken sense of how senior executives spend their time.  @ By the way, did you e-mail him and ask him about this statement?  I I expect Scott understands the VMS business better now than he did on the J day of the merger.  VMS probably got little of his attention before mergerI close, because he knew he didn't have to make any big decsions about VMS. I The integration teams decided early on that VMS would continue in the newgG HP, because it is too profitable to discard.  They wrote it down on they4 "keep" list and went on to more difficult decisions.  D Why would you expect Scott to bury himself in the details of the VMSJ business?  You do know that he has more responsibilities besides just VMS, right?  9 >Until she tackles that issue and categorically denies it M >publicly and fires Stallard for having said so, I will not be convinced thato" >this is NOT HP's true intentions.  H Let's see.  Stallard's staff put out a rather long document giving plansC for a bunch of product lines.  Stallard probably looked it over and!F approved it in general terms.  He likely trusts his staff to the pointE where he doesn't feel compelled to read every word.  He has a general-H understanding of the VMS business, but has little direct experience withD the VMS customer base.  He doesn't know the secret code phrases likeB "legacy", "migrate", or "affinity" and their unpleasant history inG VMS-land.  He has a thousand other details to worry about as the mergerd closes.o  > The roadmaps and FAQs are released, and some VMS customers are4 alarmed/enraged/confused by a couple of statements. G Stallard/Marcello/Gorham and their people get the statements revised insF about a day and a half.  VMS customers are (mostly) satisfied.  People3 continue to buy VMS stuff.  The world does not end.S  = And you think Carly should fire Scott over this?  Good Grief!O   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 07 Jun 2002 02:36:47 GMTt1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>p, Subject: Re: Carly was here in ZKO yesterday' Message-ID: <3D001FE1.AD98C848@fsi.net>a   Sue Skonetski wrote: > M > Actually she painted a very realistic picture however we are not allowed toa4 > discuss hp internal information on a public forum.  G The question has been asked, in essence, "what would it take to silencenH the negativism here in c.o.v.?" I think you may have hit the nail on theG head. If this "internal information" were released, I dare say that thehF speculation and, as Larry K. puts it, "Wailing and Moaning" here would all but cease.  G ...not to mention that hp would likely see a major upsurge in its stockw< price as a side-effect, but we can't have that now, can we?   E Hp has more to lose by not, as the media puts it, "coming clean". The H positive potential likely outweighs any perceived risk by a considerable margin.e  ( > That was what everyone liked the most.  F Which part? The "realistic picture" or being barred from discussing it	 publicly?d   -- n David J. Dachteram dba DJE Systemse http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/l   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 07 Jun 2002 02:44:38 GMTt1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>a, Subject: Re: Carly was here in ZKO yesterday' Message-ID: <3D0021B8.7CA326DA@fsi.net>-   Robert Deininger wrote:  > [snip]E > What information about VMS that isn't public do you think should be  > public?  Why?    1. How much money it brings in.RD (If you're going to claim that this gives competitors any advantage,E remember my usual rules: be specific, cite examples. Especially, citem' specific competitors to VMS and Alpha.)$D Why? Consider: if you're going to invest in a company/product, wouldF *YOU* want to know, in specific numbers, how well that company/product! does from one period to the next?   D 2. Actual plans for the future (as opposed to published "roadmaps").H Why? Read this forum for the answers to these and other questions I have" failed to raise here in this post.   -- s David J. Dachtera, dba DJE Systemss http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/t   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 07 Jun 2002 02:47:30 GMTn* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>, Subject: Re: Carly was here in ZKO yesterday@ Message-ID: <69VL8.12900$Qg.1292944@bin6.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>  ? "Robert Deininger" <rdeininger@mindspring.com> wrote in messagedF news:rdeininger-0606022209350001@11cust231.tnt2.nashua.nh.da.uu.net...7 > In article <3CFFDBE2.6B69977B@videotron.ca>, JF Mezei ' > <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote:    ...s  0 > > No mention of growth, marketing or trying toH > >make VMS look good or fight the predictions from Gartner that it will die. >aG > Gartner has been responded to repeatedly.  They are a difficult case,h* > since they don't pay attention to facts.  K Did they ever get the 'Compaq senior management' response that was promised 8 last winter, or was that just another broken commitment?   - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 06 Jun 2002 23:55:16 -0400-( From: David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>, Subject: Re: Carly was here in ZKO yesterday, Message-ID: <3D002EA4.5050303@tsoft-inc.com>   Sue Skonetski wrote:  J > I know that this is going to start a lot of discussion but I think it is > worth it.l > # > Don Harbert did the introductionst > H > Without a doubt Carly is the best speaker I have ever heard and a veryL > classy lady.  She used no notes, no podium she spoke for about an hour and& > took questions for about 45 minutes.    O I'm glad that you came away from such a meeting with a good feeling.  It could eG have been worse.  I hope, for all VMS advocates that things get better.t  Q Please note that I'm not making any accusations or comparisons.  But, there have aM been persuasive people in the past that have convinced many people on topics eO important to those people.  Hitler comes to mind.  Conversely, those who might nN be the best leaders by their actions aren't able to persuade people that such O may be the case.  I've learned to be cautious with persuasive speakers, and to  7 judge them on their actions much more than their words.o  P My question on the questions posed to Carly is, did anybody mention the lack of F visibility of VMS to the world in general, and to the computing world K specifically?  Did anybody indicate that many users felt the need for such lL visibility?  If so, what was her response?  Was there any commitments made? F What actions should we watch for?  And finally, if such questions and & observations were not raised, why not?  I That she took the time to come there seems to be a positive action.  The oQ doubters could rationalize it away, and possibly be right.  What's needed is not a, one singular action, but continuing actions.    N I'm still a VMS advocate, but I've received too many bad shocks in the last 2 C years.  I'm still hoping that they aren't indicative of the future.t   Dave   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 6 Jun 2002 11:56:34 -0500, From: "Tony Scandora" <Scandora@cmt.anl.gov>$ Subject: Re: Could linux become VMS?+ Message-ID: <adoch4$jga$1@milo.mcs.anl.gov>e  4 "Brass Christof" <welcome@spam.not> wrote in message" news:3CFF3B6D.ED24C47D@spam.not...$ > "Scandora, Anthony (35048)" wrote: > ...5> > > > Did I mention that UNIX is shit/crap and C fits well in? > >OK > > There is a lot not to like about it, but once properly configured, UNIX  can K > > run reliably and do a lot of work, and most of what's wrong with C also L > > applies to BLISS and to Macro.  A lot can be said about .ascid v. .asciz5 > > strings, but that's a lanugage independent issue.o > > > The point is how much time you need to get it in that state.= > Having BLISS and Macro similar flaws doesn't make C better.t    J It's annoying, but not too difficult to learn where those config files areI and what goes in them.  I suspect someone who doesn't know VMS would moan:L about having to learn AUTOGEN and MODPARAMS.  Once you know your stuff, it's8 pretty easy to configure either a Linux or a VMS system.  H Similar language flaws don't make C worse, either.  C can't be condemned* unless BLISS and Macro are also condemned. >eI > > VMS advocacy would be better served by touting its advantages than byrD > > calling products that do a lot of useful work and the people who- > > create them perjorative and vulgar names.o > A > VMS is cleanly designed while UNIX is not. This is a differencer6 > which is independent of the implementation language.  L What's under the hood of my car is interesting to me and fun to learn about,G but not as important to me as the fact that the car was easy to buy, ituJ starts when I turn the key, and it gives me a nice ride to where I want toB go.  Likewise, I stand in admiration of the outstanding design andJ implementation of VMS, but what matters to most computer users is that the" system runs applications reliably. >s > Who created UNIX?c  J A couple of PDP-7 hackers at Bell Labs way back in ancient history.  MajorJ later development was done at Berkeley, which is also known for LSD, whichE some don't think is a coincidence.  All that is irrelevant.  For manyoJ applications, Linux is easy to configure and runs applications reliably on cheap commodity hardware.m  1 Tony Scandora, Argonne National Lab, 630-252-7541r scandora@cmt.anl.gov   ------------------------------   Date: 6 Jun 2002 15:23:58 -0700 ( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)$ Subject: Re: Could linux become VMS?= Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0206061423.53eaaacd@posting.google.com>   Y Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1> wrote in message news:<3CFF4F06.DE09BBC3@127.0.0.1>...i > Osmo Kujala wrote: > > K > > By the way. I think all reasonable camps (VMS, unix, Linux etc.) shouldu. > > unite against MS and not fight each other. > ' > Cats and dogs, living together... :-)t > L > > Then to the subject finally. I don't believe Linux can "BECOME VMS", butF > > the best features of VMS can be integrated to Linux. VMSclusteringD > > with distributed locking can be ported etc. but one main part ofE > > reliability of VMS is that there is a company that guarantees the N > > reliability of VMS and the supported hardware. That's possible with Linux,0 > > but lets see how IMB will succeed with that. > G > I'm not sure how possible that would be. Much of what is VMS has beeneI > built in from the ground up. I guess there would have to be some fairlylF > radical kernel changes to linux to grant some of the more rock solid > features of VMS. >   = > Look at how the VMS kernel is being tweaked to provide UNIXpA > functionality, I would guess a much simpler task. Roll on seven 
 > thirty-one.8 > 9 > > Just thinking my thoughts with my fingers on keyboardd> > >                                                       Osmo > > J > > P.S. In my opinion, VMS should be taken away from the corner, where itM > >      has been thrown to and after some polishing be offered to the world.  > E > I think it was analysed into the corner and marketing so far hasn'ty5 > broken down the walls of that corner. There's time.b > : > I'd like to see VMS as the best UNIX in the marketplace.   it already is!  :)   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 07 Jun 2002 00:45:59 +0100l From: nic <junk@127.0.0.1>$ Subject: Re: Could linux become VMS?( Message-ID: <3CFFF437.CC11DD6@127.0.0.1>   Bob Ceculski wrote:, > [ > Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1> wrote in message news:<3CFF4F06.DE09BBC3@127.0.0.1>...   < > > I'd like to see VMS as the best UNIX in the marketplace. >  > it already is!  :)  A No it isn't yet. It doesn't have the capability of taking totallysD incomprehensible and illogical case sensitive command structures :-)   --   Regards, Nic Clews (from home), nic at python dot demon dot co dot uk (play) nclews at csc dot com (work)   ------------------------------   Date: 7 Jun 2002 02:56:02 GMTi2 From: "Zane H. Healy" <healyzh@shell1.aracnet.com>$ Subject: Re: Could linux become VMS?, Message-ID: <adp7c201mdo@enews1.newsguy.com>  + Osmo Kujala <kujala@tukki.cc.jyu.fi> wrote:nD > If I recall right, the story was that Linus was not happy with PC J > OS:s so he decided to make one of his own. Why he didn't start with someK > of the BSD-variants, I don't know, but maybe it was more fun to do Linux.-F > Apparently he wasn't planning to do OS wich would conquer the world.  L IIRC, basically he had the same problem a lot of us did at the time, PC OS'sL sucked, and UNIX for the PC cost big $$$'s.  He got Minix, but quickly foundK it to limiting and started writing his own.  Back in the early days none ofs@ us really expected Linux to be much more than a interesting toy.  G > I see Linux very much like Free-, Net- or xxxBSD but for some strange J > reasons Linux became a "brand" by accident. (Maybe not so strange. ThereI > was a need for Linux-like and Linux was as name different from *BSD...)gI > Lets hope great success for Linux! It's the only one which may threateniF > The Ugly Empire (meaning MS, I'm bad in history. Was that name used  > before?).0  K Personally I think that the reason why Linux came out ahead of the BSD's is C pretty simple.  In January of '92 it was possible to put together a-K functional x86-based Linux system. It wasn't easy, and until about February3K you didn't even have login's unless you added that in yourself (instead youaG were automatically root).  By the time 386BSD 0.1 was released (after a>L lengthy series of articles in Dr. Dobb's), Linux had progressed to the pointH where it had basic networking and very limited X-Windows support.  Also,K during this time frame BSD as a whole was on a rather shakey footing thanksuJ to the legal battle with AT&T.  It all amounts to Linux having had a majorH jump on the various BSD's, and the biggest advantage they had over Linux0 (better networking) has dwindled over the years.  J I like OS's, and have a wide range of experience with them, including someJ very obscure ones such as GCOS-8.  I ran Linux before I ever touched a VMSF system.  Out of all of these OS's my favorites are OpenVMS and Mac OS I classic, I can't stand Mac OS X.  OpenVMS is rock solid and it just makesxI sense (as for the Mac, I like it because I don't waste time tweaking it).i   			Zanes   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 07 Jun 2002 02:05:25 GMTn1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>  Subject: Re: dlt tape space-' Message-ID: <3D001887.E3CEA573@fsi.net>    briggs@encompasserve.org wrote:g > ] > In article <3CFEBF0E.EFD76F27@fsi.net>, "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> writes:e > > Chuck Aaron wrote: > >>J > >> What is the command that will provide you the available space left on > >> any given DLT tape? > >vK > > It occurs to me that DLT is not a "formatted" medium, like QIC. So, howuL > > much tape remains would depend on how much is available at BOT, how manyH > > error spots lie in wait further on (impossible to predict), what theI > > record/block size of the next file written will be (more/fewer IRGs),e > > and so on. > > H > > In short, that's likely too difficult to predict with any worthwhile > > degree of accuracy.s > C > A figure that is accurate to within even a factor of two would beh
 > worthwhile.r > G > Say I'm backing up a couple gigabytes of data to tape every night.  I F > have a single tape drive (no stacker loader).  I want to load a tapeH > and go home.  My boss is a cheap bastard.  I don't have a lot of tapesD > and I don't have a lot of space in my tape rack.  So I want to put  > as much on each reel as I can. > F > So.  Do I start tonight's backup on a fresh tape?  Or will it fit on > the end of last night's tape?e  D You might do well to code up something that "remembers" how much wasG saved on each tape (by label - assumes each volume has a unique label).kH Then, build a base of information from experience how much of which data5 will fit on tape as illustrated by actual experience.o  E You can use the F$FILE( filespec, "EOF" ) for most files, except that G for database containers and RMS indexed files, the EOF value is usuallyt the same as the ALQ.  : > If I start fresh tapes too often, I'll run out of tapes.G > If I use stale tapes too long, I'll run off the reel in the middle ofe > the night.  E Well, that's trade off between economy and recoverability. I'd ask my D usual question: Giventhe cost of losing data, how much money can you* AFFORD to save by not buying enough tapes?  H > Even a poor estimate for the space remaining could help me enormously.E > Unfortunately, due to the vagaries of data compression, an estimate F > based on subtracting cumulative gigabytes written from starting tapeD > capacity won't help much.  If that can be off by 50%, I've have toD > lose 50% of my tape capacity to allow for the possibility of falseJ > estimates.  (I wrote 10 gigs on a 20 gig tape and now it might be full).I > But if an estimate of space remaining produced by the drive hardware iseA > off by 50%, I only lose tape capacity equal to one saveset.  (Is> > have 2 gigs remaining and it might only hold 1 gig of data).  H Again you could "learn from experience" by the actual performance of theG hardware and media. It's not a quick or easy answer, to be sure, but it!& at least it's something to start with.   -- t David J. Dachterap dba DJE Systemse http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/s   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 06 Jun 2002 15:08:33 -0400 5 From: David Beatty <David.Beatty@qwertysasasdfgh.com>nY Subject: Re: ES-40 slower than AS-4100 was Re: Running Test and Production systems on difb2 Message-ID: <eq==PFFurD7tC=v4MreMgYZIupqF@4ax.com>  2     Hmmm.  Where are your performance bottlenecks?  4     From a system standpoint, the TPS ratings on the3 Compaq website have the AX4100 at 5000 vs. the ES40s3 at 12,200, and you have twice the amount of memory,o0 so I would not expect CPU or memory bottlenecks.  7     The connection to your disks is different and couldf- pose an issue since they are now being served-; through a SAN, rather that a direct connection.  Might also 7 be interesting to know in which physical slot the KZPBAc- and KZPGA, since the PCI slots have different-4 performance characteristics.  Is your ES40 a Model 12 or a Model 2?  Without knowing your application or6 configuration further, I would guess this is your most likely performance bottleneck.  6     Finally, while I'm not familiar with Compaq Cobol,6 I wonder if there are compiler options similar to that. of Cobol C that allow you to select the target. architecture?  With the Compaq C compiler, you, can select /ARCHITECTURE={EV4|EV5|EV56|EV6}.. If that's an option with Compaq Cobol, maybe a1 compile and link using that compiler option woulds help.j  6     There is no logical reason I can think of why your3 application would be slower on the ES40.  It shouldy. run much faster on that system compared to the AS4100.e   David R. Beattyu  6 On Thu, 6 Jun 2002 10:58:01 -0700 (PDT), Fabio Cardoso! <fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br> wrote:m   >Below my configurations:i >c >AS-4100 >b
 >4 x 5/600 >6 GBs >SCSI KZPBA -> EMC >Standalone server/ >Sysgen parameters ok. Autogened and checked byo >Compaq .BR SE.A >r2 >EMC configuration: KZPBA connected direct do the   >EMC SCSI port. 10 disks x 9,1GB >- >  >ES-40 >,
 >4 x 6/833 >12 GB
 >KZPGA -> EMCD >Standalonee/ >Sysgen parameters OK. Autogened and checked byw >Compaq .BR SE.s >d > 3 >EMC configuration: KZPGA connected to a Connectrixi2 >FC switch in  specif port just for OVMS machines.$ >19 x 9,1 GB disks (mounted just 15) >b, >PS: I am not sure about the zoning/blocking* >factor. This is configured by EMC people. >  >e >o, >OBS: The ES-40 was first installed with the0 >internal disks (2 symbios 895 each of them with" >3disks x 36 GB = total 6 x 36 GB)6 >The database was in one specific controller (PKB) and4 >the applications in other (PKA). We migrated to the >EMC5 >after this first installation, had a good improvmentt >in 6 >some process,but other still slower than the AS-4100. >l5 >Other consideration. The programs were developed in s >Cobol 2.4.  >e >u >i >Regards >a >FC  >a4 >--- David Beatty <David.Beatty@qwertysasasdfgh.com> >wrote:t >>  4 >> All other things being equal, you should get much
 >> better CPUt. >> throughput on the ES40 vs. the 4100, so ... >> -# >>     1.  How much memory in each?01 >>     2.  Number and type or processors in each?.2 >>     3.  Type of FibreChannel connector in each?! >>     4.  Cluster or standalone?@+ >>     5.  Comparison of SYSGEN parameters?n4 >>     6.  Zoning or blocking factor issues from the >> EMC?n >> 6 >> David R. Beatty >> t1 >> On Thu, 6 Jun 2002 09:34:44 -0700 (PDT), Fabio6
 >> Cardoso$ >> <fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br> wrote: >> d
 >> >Good Lucke >> >0 >> >We are trying to discover why our ES-40 with3 >> >OpenVMS 7.2-1h1 / Oracle RDB 7.0-31 and LP-8000s4 >> >connected to a EMC storage  (Fibre Channel) with5 >> >zero users is slower than the old machine AS-4100h/ >> >with OpenVMS 7.2-1H1 and Oracle RDB 7.0-31.i >> >3 >> >The last 30 days were test days... our ES-40 ist0 >> >not working fine  as we expected under OVMS.1 >> >We are planning to consolidadte 20 old VAX/AS-
 >> servers6 >> >in 4 ES-40. The first one (mine) was the first one7 >> >to be installed. No sucess. Compaq  and Oracle .BR r5 >> >are researching here but until now we dont have a-3 >> >solution. If someone here as a ES-40 / ORDB 7.0s# >> >configuration please email me !n >> > >> > >> >Regardst >> > >> >FC o0 >> >--- Tom Williams <twilliams@gscc.com> wrote:6 >> >> We're looking into migrating our environments to >> >> ES40s, and are4 >> >> planning on having each box contain two Galaxy >> >> instances: one7 >> >> production, one test. Each instance will have its  >> >> own sets of disks,4 >> >> separate UAFs, etc. Assuming the instances are >> set >> >> up correctly, is2 >> >> there anything that might happen on the test	 >> systemn >> >> (hardware or0 >> >> software) that could affect the production >> system? c >> >> I realize I'mo6 >> >> being vague, but I don't feel comfortable having >> >> production in thew7 >> >> same cabinet as test.  All comments, pro and con,b >> >> are welcome. >> >>  >> >> Thanks in advance' >> >>  >> >> Tom Williams >> > >> >	 >> >=====  >> >========================== >> >Fbio dos Santos Cardoso >> >OpenVMS System Manager >> >Rio de Janeiro - Brazili >> >fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br >> >========================== >> >6 >> >__________________________________________________ >> >Do You Yahoo!?4 >> >Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup! >> >http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.comr >>   >m >e >===== >==========================t >Fbio dos Santos Cardosoc >OpenVMS System Managert >Rio de Janeiro - Brazil >fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.bri >==========================a >s3 >__________________________________________________w >Do You Yahoo!?b1 >Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cupo >http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 6 Jun 2002 22:19:47 +0200" From: "Hans Vlems" <hvlems@iae.nl>Y Subject: Re: ES-40 slower than AS-4100 was Re: Running Test and Production systems on difh5 Message-ID: <adofnl$124kh$1@ID-143435.news.dfncis.de>a  K You just mentioned "slower" so this is guess. The memory was doubled in thegJ ES-40. Did the UAF parameters get changed too, more specifically the WSDEF
 parameter?E Other than that, could you post the SYSGEN parameters that govern the5
 working sets?e   Hans  9 Fabio Cardoso <fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br> wrote in messagea: news:20020606175801.51876.qmail@web20210.mail.yahoo.com... > Below my configurations: >d	 > AS-4100w >, > 4 x 5/600w > 6 GB > SCSI KZPBA -> EMC  > Standalone servert0 > Sysgen parameters ok. Autogened and checked by > Compaq .BR SE. >a2 > EMC configuration: KZPBA connected direct do the! > EMC SCSI port. 10 disks x 9,1GB  >t >  > ES-40  >i > 4 x 6/833M > 12 GBl > KZPGA -> EMC > Standalone0 > Sysgen parameters OK. Autogened and checked by > Compaq .BR SE. >g >l4 > EMC configuration: KZPGA connected to a Connectrix3 > FC switch in  specif port just for OVMS machines.U% > 19 x 9,1 GB disks (mounted just 15)r >u- > PS: I am not sure about the zoning/blockingu+ > factor. This is configured by EMC people.d >t >k > - > OBS: The ES-40 was first installed with theI1 > internal disks (2 symbios 895 each of them witha# > 3disks x 36 GB = total 6 x 36 GB)i7 > The database was in one specific controller (PKB) andt5 > the applications in other (PKA). We migrated to thej > EMC 6 > after this first installation, had a good improvment > in7 > some process,but other still slower than the AS-4100.h >m5 > Other consideration. The programs were developed ina > Cobol 2.4. >t >e >d	 > Regardsr >b > FC > 5 > --- David Beatty <David.Beatty@qwertysasasdfgh.com>y > wrote: > >t5 > > All other things being equal, you should get mucho > > better CPU/ > > throughput on the ES40 vs. the 4100, so ...s > >n$ > >     1.  How much memory in each?2 > >     2.  Number and type or processors in each?3 > >     3.  Type of FibreChannel connector in each? " > >     4.  Cluster or standalone?, > >     5.  Comparison of SYSGEN parameters?5 > >     6.  Zoning or blocking factor issues from thes > > EMC? > >, > > David R. Beattyi > > 2 > > On Thu, 6 Jun 2002 09:34:44 -0700 (PDT), Fabio > > Cardoso % > > <fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br> wrote:l > >o > > >Good Luck > > >o1 > > >We are trying to discover why our ES-40 witha4 > > >OpenVMS 7.2-1h1 / Oracle RDB 7.0-31 and LP-80005 > > >connected to a EMC storage  (Fibre Channel) with06 > > >zero users is slower than the old machine AS-41000 > > >with OpenVMS 7.2-1H1 and Oracle RDB 7.0-31. > > >44 > > >The last 30 days were test days... our ES-40 is1 > > >not working fine  as we expected under OVMS.02 > > >We are planning to consolidadte 20 old VAX/AS > > servers 7 > > >in 4 ES-40. The first one (mine) was the first onel7 > > >to be installed. No sucess. Compaq  and Oracle .BR 6 > > >are researching here but until now we dont have a4 > > >solution. If someone here as a ES-40 / ORDB 7.0$ > > >configuration please email me ! > > >b > > >r > > >Regards > > >s > > >FC 1 > > >--- Tom Williams <twilliams@gscc.com> wrote:n7 > > >> We're looking into migrating our environments to  > > >> ES40s, and are 5 > > >> planning on having each box contain two Galaxy. > > >> instances: onei8 > > >> production, one test. Each instance will have its > > >> own sets of disks,l5 > > >> separate UAFs, etc. Assuming the instances are  > > seth > > >> up correctly, ise3 > > >> there anything that might happen on the testg
 > > system > > >> (hardware orm1 > > >> software) that could affect the production  > > system?e > > >> I realize I'm7 > > >> being vague, but I don't feel comfortable havingi > > >> production in the8 > > >> same cabinet as test.  All comments, pro and con, > > >> are welcome.d > > >> > > >> Thanks in advance > > >> > > >> Tom Williamso > > >  > > >.
 > > >===== > > >==========================  > > >Fbio dos Santos Cardosoh > > >OpenVMS System Managero > > >Rio de Janeiro - Brazil > > >fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.bra > > >==========================t > > >f7 > > >__________________________________________________' > > >Do You Yahoo!?i5 > > >Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cupt" > > >http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com > >- >- >- > =====  > ========================== > Fbio dos Santos Cardoso > OpenVMS System Manager > Rio de Janeiro - Brazil  > fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br > ========================== >i4 > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!?2 > Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup > http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 06 Jun 2002 23:28:35 +0200t From: Dirk Munk <munk@home.nl>Y Subject: Re: ES-40 slower than AS-4100 was Re: Running Test and Production systems on dif)& Message-ID: <3CFFD403.6090807@home.nl>   Fabio Cardoso wrote: > Below my configurations: > 	 > AS-4100- >  > 4 x 5/600  > 6 GB > SCSI KZPBA -> EMCn > Standalone servers0 > Sysgen parameters ok. Autogened and checked by > Compaq .BR SE. > 3 > EMC configuration: KZPBA connected direct do the @! > EMC SCSI port. 10 disks x 9,1GBc >  >  > ES-40o >  > 4 x 6/833  > 12 GBa > KZPGA -> EMC > Standalone0 > Sysgen parameters OK. Autogened and checked by > Compaq .BR SE. >  > 4 > EMC configuration: KZPGA connected to a Connectrix3 > FC switch in  specif port just for OVMS machines. % > 19 x 9,1 GB disks (mounted just 15)a   Typical EMC configuration :-) 5 Did you check how many IO's are going to which disk ?e Why not setup Raid 0+1 on EMC ?,N It is possible, but it seems most EMC guys use a symmetrix as a lot of JBOD's + with an enormous cache. Not very bright....          > - > PS: I am not sure about the zoning/blockingm+ > factor. This is configured by EMC people.t >  >  > - > OBS: The ES-40 was first installed with thee1 > internal disks (2 symbios 895 each of them with # > 3disks x 36 GB = total 6 x 36 GB)*7 > The database was in one specific controller (PKB) andn5 > the applications in other (PKA). We migrated to theM > EMCb6 > after this first installation, had a good improvment > in7 > some process,but other still slower than the AS-4100.B > 6 > Other consideration. The programs were developed in  > Cobol 2.4.  O Old version, latest version is 2.7. It is possible to build Cobol applications  P optimized for EV6 processors, although I doubt if it will give you any benefits 
 in this case.r   >  >  > 	 > Regards  >  > FC e > 5 > --- David Beatty <David.Beatty@qwertysasasdfgh.com>L > wrote: > 3 >>All other things being equal, you should get much  >>better CPU- >>throughput on the ES40 vs. the 4100, so ...e >>" >>    1.  How much memory in each?0 >>    2.  Number and type or processors in each?1 >>    3.  Type of FibreChannel connector in each?h  >>    4.  Cluster or standalone?* >>    5.  Comparison of SYSGEN parameters?3 >>    6.  Zoning or blocking factor issues from thed >>EMC? >> >>David R. Beattye >>0 >>On Thu, 6 Jun 2002 09:34:44 -0700 (PDT), Fabio	 >>Cardosor# >><fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br> wrote:  >> >> >>>Good Luck >>>e/ >>>We are trying to discover why our ES-40 withi2 >>>OpenVMS 7.2-1h1 / Oracle RDB 7.0-31 and LP-80003 >>>connected to a EMC storage  (Fibre Channel) withc4 >>>zero users is slower than the old machine AS-4100. >>>with OpenVMS 7.2-1H1 and Oracle RDB 7.0-31. >>>02 >>>The last 30 days were test days... our ES-40 is/ >>>not working fine  as we expected under OVMS.e0 >>>We are planning to consolidadte 20 old VAX/AS >>	 >>serversg >>5 >>>in 4 ES-40. The first one (mine) was the first onev6 >>>to be installed. No sucess. Compaq  and Oracle .BR 4 >>>are researching here but until now we dont have a2 >>>solution. If someone here as a ES-40 / ORDB 7.0" >>>configuration please email me ! >>>o >>>h
 >>>Regards >>>f >>>FC / >>>--- Tom Williams <twilliams@gscc.com> wrote:n >>>l4 >>>>We're looking into migrating our environments to >>>>ES40s, and are2 >>>>planning on having each box contain two Galaxy >>>>instances: one5 >>>>production, one test. Each instance will have its  >>>>own sets of disks,2 >>>>separate UAFs, etc. Assuming the instances are >>>n >>setw >> >>>>up correctly, is0 >>>>there anything that might happen on the test >>>f >>system >> >>>>(hardware or. >>>>software) that could affect the production >>>f
 >>system?  >> >>>>I realize I'ma4 >>>>being vague, but I don't feel comfortable having >>>>production in theh5 >>>>same cabinet as test.  All comments, pro and con,f >>>>are welcome. >>>> >>>>Thanks in advance  >>>> >>>>Tom Williams >>>  >>>m >>>===== >>>==========================  >>>Fbio dos Santos Cardoso  >>>OpenVMS System Manager  >>>Rio de Janeiro - Brazil >>>fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br  >>>==========================m >>> 5 >>>__________________________________________________c >>>Do You Yahoo!?u3 >>>Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cupp  >>>http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com >> >  >  > =====u > ========================== > Fbio dos Santos Cardoso > OpenVMS System Manager > Rio de Janeiro - Brazila > fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br > ========================== > 4 > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!?2 > Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup > http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.come   ------------------------------    Date: 07 Jun 2002 04:44:21 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>Y Subject: Re: ES-40 slower than AS-4100 was Re: Running Test and Production systems on dif - Message-ID: <871ybkuogq.fsf@prep.synonet.com>g  0 Fabio Cardoso <fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br> writes:  @ > We are trying to discover why our ES-40 with OpenVMS 7.2-1h1 /A > Oracle RDB 7.0-31 and LP-8000 connected to a EMC storage (FibretF > Channel) with zero users is slower than the old machine AS-4100 with( > OpenVMS 7.2-1H1 and Oracle RDB 7.0-31.  B What do you mean by `zero users' and `slower'? How did you do what* ever you did to determine that it is slow?   -- n< Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.g@                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 06 Jun 2002 11:59:56 -0700c0 From: Mark Berryman <Mark.Berryman@Mvb.Saic.Com>( Subject: Re: Help tuning NISCS_MAX_PKTSZ, Message-ID: <3CFF4EBC.36883BD1@Mvb.Saic.Com>  F Regrettably, much of the information given in this reply is incorrect.  C First, the maximum amount of data that can be placed in an ethernete? packet is 1498 bytes.  This is true for both 10mbit and 100mbitbA ethernet.  While gigabit ethernet can support larger frames, thisWD support exists in only a limited number of gigabit devices and everyH device in the path between any two nodes must support it in order for it to be used.0  > The DSNlink reference to packet sizes of 4468 is only for FDDI interfaces, not for ethernet.   E Since you have 10/100 ethernet connections, your system will only usei packets up to 1498 bytes.e  < PEDRIVER, the driver that handles cluster traffic across LANE connections, will not put more than one message in a packet.  If yoursD ethernet is only used for SCS traffic (i.e., your disks are not alsoF shared via the ethernet) then you will rarely see messages bigger thanH what ethernet can handle.  If you were actually moving lock trees aroundD enough such that you could use packets larger than what ethernet can@ handle then you would need to tune your lock mastering, not your communication path.s  F Lastly, your vendor is blowing smoke.  Unless I am very much mistaken,G the NISCS sysgen parameters are only used by the NI drivers, and do notoD control how large of a message is generated (but that is based on myG memory...)  Since you have access to DSNlink, a query in that directiono" would get you a definitive answer.  
 Mark Berrymane Mark.Berryman@Mvb.Saic.Com   > Nic Clews wrote: >  > David Harrold wrote: > >2H > > I am looking for some more information on tuning the NISCS_MAX_PKTSZ > > parameter. > >tP > > Our application vendor is suggesting that we set it to 1498 because our onlyH > > cluster NI interconnect is 10/100 Ethernet.  But reading the articleQ > > "[OpenVMS] A Discussion Of How VMScluster Members Communicate" in DSNLink, it1L > > appears to me that leaving NISCS_MAX_PKTSZ at the default (8192) is fineO > > and the cluster communication subsystem will only send packets of 1498 overi > > the Ethernet links.  > >CO > > Our contact at the vender suggests that a lock remaster (for instance) willsP > > generate 8192 byte packets which must be broken up into 1498 byte packets toP > > send across the Ethernet connection.  If this is true, I agree that changingO > > NISCS_MAX_PKTSZ would be a good thing, but the article above seems to state  > > that this is not the case. > ? > Fascinating. This is where the world of cluster communication < > intermingles with networking, or notworking as I sometimesE > affectionately know it as. I am NOT going to attempt to explain the @ > differences between networking types, but I may touch on them. > G > Ethernet is CSMACD. Single bit of wire. At a certain bit rate, only adJ > certain amount of data can be transmitted, so the packet size is limitedC > to prevent one station hogging the wire too long for a particular G > transfer. Bigger bit rates mean more can be transferred in one go, soND > the packet size can be increased. For large data transfers, biggerC > packet or transfer lump sizes are generally more efficient. [SomeC; > network topologies, e.g. ATM, this is of no consequence].n > # > [I hope I get my Bs and bs right]  > 0 > Frame size =_- buffer size === NISCS_MAX_PKTSZ > ; > 1498 is the default data size (i.e. less CRC) for 10 Mbs.  > 4 > The DSNlink article is correct for 100 Mbs (4468). > H > This should raise a question: What happens if you have two NICs one at > 10 Mb, one at 100 Mb.C > E > Well the software driver around the 10 Mb can only drive it at 1498nH > bytes, so it drops to that. The articles does say that in a roundabout > way. > G > For the 100 Mbs. If the NISCS_MAX_PKTSZ was 1498, then it would limituJ > the 'data bursts' on that LAN to so many bytes before releasing the lineD > so to speak. You are correct that you'd need 5 full packets, and aH > partial packet, in other words 6 data 'sends' on the line to send whatH > one 8192 byte packet could hold. This is a trade off (as ever) 6 timesJ > it has to do a Carrier Sense, 6 more chances that a Collision Detect mayJ > occur, however in the Multiple Access world, other network stations haveH > more opportunity NOT to get a Collision Detect due to the rough law ofE > averages. Basically the packet is in the firing line for less time.r > C > The other trade off to consider is the amount of 'processing' and,F > handling time, 6 times as opposed to just once. You are also correctJ > that large lumps of data have to be broken down, and this in itself will0 > add to the total time to the network transfer. > H > Hopefully the network aspect of things is now in some perspective, andJ > I've used a tiny bit of artistic license in order not to confuse matters
 > further. > J > In the world of clusters, you actually have three values to consider forF > this parameter! This is properly documented (amazingly) in the Alpha= > Galaxy Guide "Communicating with Shared Memory - The SMCI".y > E > 8192 is the maximum, but this does not actually sit near any proper>E > boundaries for networking, however in the same way 10Mb is handled,_G > packets simply are sent at their maximum supported size per protocol.2 > I > Dig deeper into DSNlink and check FDDI (100Mb) values, you already know=C > the 10Mb setting, and the Galaxy guide provides the missing link:e > 
 > 10Mb = 1498  > 100Mb = 4468 > SMCI (xxxxxMb) = 7360b > F > It's probably that Gigabit drivers also need this higher setting, orH > more. I'm not certain on the ins and out of that, but if anyone wishes > to elucidate.../ > H > In SYSGEN, a HELP on that parameter tells you how that setting is usedB > in the ethernet world. Yet another DSNlink article discusses how > ethernet frames are made up. > G > OK so you have the numbers, and the perhaps why, now a closer look atD > the impact on the cluster. > I > Lock remastering has changed for VMS 7.3. Prior to this, when lock data4J > was moved from one node to another, these locks would actually go one byJ > one! Not terribly efficient, but in most circumstances not a huge issue,H > unless you've millions of locks, but even then there's ways around it. > Not being discussed here.1 > J > VMS 7.3 now 'blocks' the locks, and sends effectively a large group at aE > time. This of course fills up those bigger packets I mentioned. SCSsH > communication is quite efficient, so a good proportion is dealing withF > sending data, but the bigger the packet size, the more data and moreI > efficient. This sort of equals quicker by the clock on the wall. [There ) > are other changes to the lock manager].K > J > So your application vendor is correct, providing the operating system isJ > at this version, and your application is taking advantage of it. Also itJ > is dependent on application, what is it doing. We'd kinda hope that yourB > systems are not constantly remastering, that your LOCKDIRWT, PE1I > parameters are correctly set (preferably default unless you can give mesH > a damn good reason!) and that your application vendor, if they seem toC > know so much about lock remastering, have coded their applicationcJ > correctly so that the NL lock is used to maintain the presence of a lockI > tree and its associated activity. This helps the locking systems behave  > correctly. > D > [Take the case of an application which keeps raising and releasingE > locks, which are both directory managed and initially mastered on aeF > remote node, yet used almost exclusively on this local node, yet notH > held long enough for the effort of remastering to the local node to be > of any use]. > P > > Any further information or documents or pointers to manuals would be greatly > > appreciated. > C > I may have gone a little deeper than you expected, but I hope itssH > explained it for you. As ever, the final decision for those parametersH > is still left to you, without examining your systems in detail I can'tF > give you the answer, but hopefully you have enough to make the right > decision.o >  > --* > Regards, Nic Clews CSC Computer Sciences > nclews at csc dot comt   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 07 Jun 2002 00:34:15 +0100d From: nic <junk@127.0.0.1>( Subject: Re: Help tuning NISCS_MAX_PKTSZ) Message-ID: <3CFFF177.14C90AE0@127.0.0.1>A   Mark Berryman wrote: > H > Regrettably, much of the information given in this reply is incorrect.  8 Limited bits only, surely, surrounding net packet sizes.  VE > First, the maximum amount of data that can be placed in an ethernet A > packet is 1498 bytes.  This is true for both 10mbit and 100mbiteC > ethernet.  While gigabit ethernet can support larger frames, thishF > support exists in only a limited number of gigabit devices and everyJ > device in the path between any two nodes must support it in order for it
 > to be used.  > @ > The DSNlink reference to packet sizes of 4468 is only for FDDI > interfaces, not for ethernet.n  H I wasn't aware, I've not delved into 100 Mb ethernet so I appreciate theG correction, I'd assumed FDDI at 100 gave rise to the larger frames, butE not.  " What is the position for Gigabit ?   SMCI is documented.r  > > PEDRIVER, the driver that handles cluster traffic across LANG > connections, will not put more than one message in a packet.  If youryF > ethernet is only used for SCS traffic (i.e., your disks are not alsoH > shared via the ethernet) then you will rarely see messages bigger thanJ > what ethernet can handle.  If you were actually moving lock trees aroundF > enough such that you could use packets larger than what ethernet canB > handle then you would need to tune your lock mastering, not your > communication path.=  F I deliberately avoided mentioning tuning lock remastering, however I'mE led to believe that locks are now (7.3+) passed in batches when being C remastered, which suggests to me multiple locks in a single packet._  _H > Lastly, your vendor is blowing smoke.  Unless I am very much mistaken,I > the NISCS sysgen parameters are only used by the NI drivers, and do not-F > control how large of a message is generated (but that is based on myI > memory...)  Since you have access to DSNlink, a query in that direction.$ > would get you a definitive answer.   > > Nic Clews wrote: > >_     -- _ Regards, Nic Clews (from home), nic at python dot demon dot co dot uk (play) nclews at csc dot com (work)   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 06 Jun 2002 18:38:52 GMT8( From: Don Sykes <annonymous@pacbell.net>F Subject: Re: How to put my VMS box on a BroadBand Connection (part II)+ Message-ID: <3CFFAC94.766CDAF4@pacbell.net>0   Didier Morandi wrote:a > Q > Remember, it was around the 17th of May. We had on c.o.v a technical chat aboutCQ > how to connect a VMS/Alpha box (PWS600au 7.3 TCP/IP 5.1) to the Internet via ane
 > ADSL modem.. > L > I spent a few nites without success, so I followed an advice and installedR > IPNetRouter on my gateway, an iMac running OS 9.2.2. The machines are linked via > a switch Netgear FS105.t > ( > The ADSL modem (EICON DIVA 2430) says: > / > Adresse IP Internet    :        212.129.51.99 / > Masque IP Internet     :        255.255.255.0r- > Adresse DNS principale :        213.36.80.1j- > Adresse DNS secondaire :        213.36.80.1 - > Adresse IP locale      :        192.168.1.1 / > Masque IP local        :        255.255.255.0b > ) > IPNetRouter (automatic) config file is:a >  > ! IPNetRouter 1.6.6 PPCr > #forwardingAutomatic > #remainConnected > #enableLocalNATr > #DNSForwarding > #LimitMTUForPPPoE H > +interface\Ethernet\gmac0\192.168.1.2\255.255.255.0\masquerading\dhcp\: > +interface\Ethernet\gmac0:1\192.168.187.1\255.255.255.0\+ > +route\Direct\192.168.1.0/24\192.168.1.2\ / > +route\Direct\192.168.187.0/24\192.168.187.1\e* > +route\Direct\224.0.0.0/4\192.168.187.1\( > +route\Direct\224.0.0.0/4\192.168.1.2\+ > +route\Direct\169.254.0.0/16\192.168.1.2\t- > +route\Default-Gateway\0.0.0.0\192.168.1.1\h > #end >  > Alpha TCP/IP config is:t > DTL02> tcpip sh rout > & >                              DYNAMIC > > > Type           Destination                           Gateway > ; > AN    0.0.0.0                               192.168.187.1u7 > AH    127.0.0.1                             127.0.0.1 ; > AN    192.168.187.0/24                      192.168.187.2f; > AH    192.168.187.2                         192.168.187.2h >  > DTL02> tcpip sh namU >  > BIND Resolver Parameters >  >  Local domain: tiscali.fro > 	 >  Systemn >  >   State:     Started, Enabledp >  >   Transport: UDP >   Domain:    tiscali.frc >   Retry:     4 >   Timeout:   4 >   Servers:    192.168.1.1o! >   Path:       No values defined  > 
 >  Process >  >   State:     Enabled >  >   Transport: >   Domain:t
 >   Retry: >   Timeout: >   Servers:	 >   Path:F >  > DTL02> tcpip sh conf inter >  >  Interface: LO0>A >    IP_Addr: 127.0.0.1         NETWRK: 255.0.0.0         BRDCST:0 >  >  Interface: WE01Q >    IP_Addr: 192.168.187.2     NETWRK: 255.255.255.0     BRDCST: 192.168.187.255w > N > I can TELNET to the Alpha box (where these data come from), I can FTP, but I > cannot "exit" the box: >  > DTL02> tcpip ping 213.36.80.1s/ > PING 213.36.80.1 (213.36.80.1): 56 data bytesc > % > ----213.36.80.1 PING Statistics----s= > 4 packets transmitted, 0 packets received, 100% packet lossf# > %SYSTEM-F-TIMEOUT, device timeout> > R > Any address outside the LAN is unreachable. Without IPNetRouter, I had "no route6 > to host", with it, I just have nothing but timeouts. >  > Who knows the magic?  
 I think it's: , $ tcpip set route/default/gate=192.168.187.11 $ tcpip set route/default/gate=192.168.187.1/perml   -- e   Have VMS. Will Travel. Wire Paladin @alphase.com 
 San Francisco>   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 06 Jun 2002 17:43:13 -0400r- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> F Subject: Re: How to put my VMS box on a BroadBand Connection (part II), Message-ID: <3CFFD770.52424026@videotron.ca>   Didier,n  I your router has 2 personalities. a WAN personality and a LAN personality.>  F The WAN personality is fully obtained from your ISP through DHCP, thisU includes its internet IP address (and mask), the dns servers and the default gateway.h  K The LAN personality is configured by you to fit inside your lan. You assign>J your router a fixed IP address in a "private" numbner (such as 10.*.*.* or 192.168.*.* ).  M You then assign your hosts on your LAN fixed IP adresses in the same range as J the LAN IP address of your router so that they are all in the same subnet.  H On VMS, you tell it that the default route is the LAN IP address of yourM router. This way, whenever the VAX needs to connect to a host outside of youroY subnet, it will send it to your router. (SET ROUTE/DEFAULT 0.0.0.0/gateway=routers_LAN_ipr  G Where you can cheat is with the DNS addresses. I just picked up the DNSaM addresses obtained by the router through DHCP and coded those in the VMS bind_L system. I chose to run my own bind server with my own local databse of localJ hosts, complemented with a SET CONFIG BIND $FORWARDERS=(ip1,ip2 etc) whichE contain the IP adresses of the various dns servers offered by my ISP..  M But if you choose not to run your own bind server, you can then just hardcodedN the dns adresses in the bind client configuration and your VMS host will go to( your ISP's DNS servers for all requests.   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 6 Jun 2002 20:41:31 -0400% From: "John Vottero" <John@mvpsi.com>oF Subject: Re: How to put my VMS box on a BroadBand Connection (part II)/ Message-ID: <ug00apmb8jef5a@news.supernews.com>c  : "Didier Morandi" <Didier.Morandi@Free.fr> wrote in message! news:3CFF856B.B5DFF308@Free.fr...d > "Barry Treahy, Jr." wrote: > + > > >The ADSL modem (EICON DIVA 2430) says:  > > >C1 > > >Adresse IP Internet    :       212.129.51.99 1 > > >Masque IP Internet     :       255.255.255.0  > > > K > > it is unlikely that your ISP has provided you a Class C subnet for yourC0 > > IP, so you might want to check the /24 mask. >w5 > These data are a cut/paste from the router display.   F I believe that this is correct.  It's your ISP that has a full class CK address, not you.  Your router is assigned one address out of that class C.8   >MA > > >Type           Destination                           Gatewayr > > > > > > >AN    0.0.0.0                               192.168.187.1 > > >nI > > Your default gateway for the router should be the IP gateway for yourb. > > ISP, not the NIC side which is being NAT'd >g > How can I know it? >   L I believe that this is correct too.  The default gateway for the VMS machineL is the Mac.  The IPNetRouter software on the Mac then forwards the packet toL it's default gateway which is 192.168.1.1, the ADSL router.  You didn't show4 the default route on the ADSL router, is it correct?  H I believe your problem is in the masquerading.  It appears that the ADSLL router is doing masquerading and the IPNetRouter is also doing masquerading.J I assume that the ADSL router will only masquerade for a single IP addressI correct?   If the Mac can use the Internet then the 192.168.187.0 networkrI probably isn't being masqueraded.  If the Mac can't use the Internet thenaB your should check the default gateway on the ADSL router (and it's  masquerading configuration too).   ------------------------------  * Date: Thu, 6 Jun 2002 12:36:31 -0700 (PDT). From: Fabio Cardoso <fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br>) Subject: HP Alphaservers and Lan Consolesy@ Message-ID: <20020606193631.61618.qmail@web20209.mail.yahoo.com>  4 Hi someone at HP Alphaservers/PA-RISC engineering...    6 Would we have Lan Consoles for HP Alphaservers now ???     Regardsi   FC o   =====e ========================== Fbio dos Santos Cardoso OpenVMS System Manager Rio de Janeiro - Brazila fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br ==========================  2 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!?0 Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 06 Jun 2002 22:15:58 -0400 2 From: rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger)- Subject: Re: HP Alphaservers and Lan ConsoleshL Message-ID: <rdeininger-0606022215580001@11cust231.tnt2.nashua.nh.da.uu.net>  F In article <20020606193631.61618.qmail@web20209.mail.yahoo.com>, Fabio) Cardoso <fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br> wrote:v  5 >Hi someone at HP Alphaservers/PA-RISC engineering...   G I don't think there is any such group.  Alphaserver and PA-RISC systemstE are designed by different groups.  Both server lines are being phasedeD out.  Many of the new generation PA-RISC systems will support in-boxH upgrades to IPF processors.  Alpha to IPF upgrades will eventually be of the whole-box variety.    7 >Would we have Lan Consoles for HP Alphaservers now ???g  D Why would you expect a major change in direction for the alphaserver systems in the pipeline?  F I believe the GS-series alphaservers have some LAN capabilities in theE consoles, but that is not new and has nothing to do with HP's PA-RISC  server line.  J What, specifically, are you asking for?  What would this "LAN console" do?   ------------------------------   Date: 6 Jun 2002 15:29:08 -0700 ( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski), Subject: Re: IT world becoming like lawyers?= Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0206061429.3fbb5117@posting.google.com>r  v Fabio Cardoso <fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br> wrote in message news:<20020606161340.29176.qmail@web20210.mail.yahoo.com>...5 > Welcome to the world which create virtual companiesf2 > with virtual products, with high amount of stock7 > options to managers/CEOs/CIOs without heart to fire al6 > lot of people because the company didnt match the $$
 > targets. > 6 > I am not one of those which think a company is just 7 > to make money. When you have 100 or 1000 people under 5 > your responsability, to keep the company working iso0 > everything. If a company fails in one semester
 > nowadays& > it is sold or become in bankrupcy... >  > 	 > Regardsh >    > FC i >   @ VMS is making us winners ... so how is windoze unix/linux making@ winners out of anybody?  I'd like to see an analysis done of all@ those bankrupt companies and losing money companies and see what? os sank their ship ... compaq is a perfect example of what pc'sa? and windoze/unix/linux  will do to you ... make you lose money!o   ------------------------------   Date: 6 Jun 2002 13:36:55 -0700p- From: tessier-ashpool@usa.net (Chris Bardell) 3 Subject: Re: just got this - OpenVMS faxing utility = Message-ID: <9f261edc.0206061236.5168bf32@posting.google.com>r  l "Sue Skonetski" <susan.skonetski@compaq.com> wrote in message news:<3QKL8.12$z11.438444@news.cpqcorp.net>...% > COMPUFAX USERS SAVE TIME and MONEY!o  ? Perhaps also fair to add that other faxserver-type products arew available for OpenVMS.  > IIRC one of the competing products (Goldstar) was pretty good:8 http://www.goldfax.com/products/goldfax/VMS/gfVMmain.htm  E Also Textel's scheduler handles faxes & telexes http://www.ccl.co.uk/e3 Also another product called Autofax (from Wilco?).    E Why doesn't someone try to open-source this, using a normal (non-Win) D modem? Might be a chuckle, if I eventually get myself a home OpenVMS box (planning to).  } See also: http://directory.google.com/Top/Computers/Data_Communications/Unified_Messaging/Fax_Server/Mainframe_and_Mid-Range/v  ' Just for the purposes of information...k   ------------------------------   Date: 6 Jun 2002 15:34:10 -0700 ( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)3 Subject: Re: just got this - OpenVMS faxing utilityg= Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0206061434.2dc7d4b6@posting.google.com>=  Y Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1> wrote in message news:<3CFF7954.7B3CB88C@127.0.0.1>...s > Sue Skonetski wrote: > > ( > >  COMPUFAX USERS SAVE TIME and MONEY! > # > Not the only VMS faxing solution!u > / > http://www.gold-fax.com/products/prodmain.htm   @ Goldfax also has a nice GUI screen to manage fax queues from ... Multitech modems are tops ...h Bullet proof product ...   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 06 Jun 2002 23:58:36 GMToL From: winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU ("Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr")3 Subject: Re: just got this - OpenVMS faxing utilityo8 Message-ID: <00A0F103.DCB6EBF9@SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>  S In article <3CFF86B3.62995506@uiowa.edu>, Rick Dyson <rick-dyson@uiowa.edu> writes:  >"Ruslan R. Laishev" wrote:k >> t >> Hi !n >> eC >>         This SW still working only with exotic Multitech modems?b >kE >Maybe, but I will defend the Mutitech modems and would not call them C >exotic. :)  They are just proffessional quality.  They run all theoG >time and generally don't fail or hicup.  In my experience, I can't saya7 >that for the USRs and all the 'no names' of the world.  >fH >Heck, the 56k models only cost ~ US$120.  High compared to the internal5 >PC clones, but you don't want one of them anyway. :)   M I was a happy Gold-FAX system manager for several years, and never had a licko+ of trouble from the exotic Multitech modem.f  % (Now we have an NT-based "solution".)o   -- Alani    O ===============================================================================u0  Alan Winston --- WINSTON@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDUM  Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056rM  Physical mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 69, PO BOX 4349, STANFORD, CA  94309-0210vO ===============================================================================h   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 07 Jun 2002 08:00:51 +0400c4 From: "Ruslan R. Laishev" <laishev@smtp.deltatel.ru>3 Subject: Re: just got this - OpenVMS faxing utilityg0 Message-ID: <3D002FF3.561A7A7E@smtp.deltatel.ru>  * Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr wrote:	 > >> Hi !c > >>E > >>         This SW still working only with exotic Multitech modems?m > >iG > >Maybe, but I will defend the Mutitech modems and would not call themoE > >exotic. :)  They are just proffessional quality.  They run all the.I > >time and generally don't fail or hicup.  In my experience, I can't say 9 > >that for the USRs and all the 'no names' of the world.s  , 	Do you use a "receviving" Gold-FAX option ?   > > J > >Heck, the 56k models only cost ~ US$120.  High compared to the internal7 > >PC clones, but you don't want one of them anyway. :)aG 	120$ for fax modem ?! "Money for nothing", in Russia Multitech MT56000- ZDXV - ~250$ at Moscow.   ' > (Now we have an NT-based "solution".)m 	M$ NT ?! "No Thanks" !!!j   -- : Cheers, Ruslan.SD +---------------------pure personal opinion------------------------+;       RADIUS Server for OpenVMS project - www.radiusvms.com 8         vms-isps@dls.net - Forum for ISP running OpenVMSA    Mobile(s): +7 (901) 971-3222 (NMT), +7 (901) 623-5025 (IMT-MC) A    TKD (WTF) in Russia, St.-Petersburg - www.TaeKwonDo-WTF.SPb.RUs;      http://starlet.deltatel.ru/~laishev/public_pgp_key.txtt   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 07 Jun 2002 04:31:35 GMTmL From: winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU ("Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr")3 Subject: Re: just got this - OpenVMS faxing utility 8 Message-ID: <00A0F129.FF5EB2B0@SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>  g In article <3D002FF3.561A7A7E@smtp.deltatel.ru>, "Ruslan R. Laishev" <laishev@smtp.deltatel.ru> writes: + >Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr wrote:a
 >> >> Hi ! >> >>tF >> >>         This SW still working only with exotic Multitech modems? >> >H >> >Maybe, but I will defend the Mutitech modems and would not call themF >> >exotic. :)  They are just proffessional quality.  They run all theJ >> >time and generally don't fail or hicup.  In my experience, I can't say: >> >that for the USRs and all the 'no names' of the world. >s, 	Do you use a "receviving" Gold-FAX option ?  L (Very little of what's attributed to me here is stuff I said.)  However, no,L we didn't use a "receiving" option; we have actual fax machines for incoming faxes. >i >> >K >> >Heck, the 56k models only cost ~ US$120.  High compared to the internalc8 >> >PC clones, but you don't want one of them anyway. :)H >	120$ for fax modem ?! "Money for nothing", in Russia Multitech MT56000 >ZDXV - ~250$ at Moscow. >a( >> (Now we have an NT-based "solution".) >	M$ NT ?! "No Thanks" !!!  O It wasn't my idea.  But people had stopped being interested in faxing documentsdK from Word-11 and started being interested in faxing documents from MS Word.y   -- Alan.    O ===============================================================================e0  Alan Winston --- WINSTON@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDUM  Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056pM  Physical mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 69, PO BOX 4349, STANFORD, CA  94309-0210hO ===============================================================================R   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 07 Jun 2002 09:38:08 +040034 From: "Ruslan R. Laishev" <Laishev@SMTP.DeltaTel.RU>3 Subject: Re: just got this - OpenVMS faxing utility 0 Message-ID: <3D0046C0.393B62A0@SMTP.DeltaTel.RU>   > >V* > >> (Now we have an NT-based "solution".)" > >       M$ NT ?! "No Thanks" !!! > Q > It wasn't my idea.  But people had stopped being interested in faxing documentseM > from Word-11 and started being interested in faxing documents from MS Word. B 	Our users faxing by GFAX PC-client from any windoze applications.   --   Cheers, F +OpenVMS [Sys|Net] HardWorker .......................................+E  Russia,Delta Telecom Inc,                    Cel:  +7 (901) 971-3222eE  191119,St.Petersburg,Transportny per. 3                     116-3222 F +http://starlet.deltatel.ru ................. SysMan rides HailStorm +   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 07 Jun 2002 00:31:52 GMTr& From: John Reagan <john.reagan@hp.com>, Subject: Re: LBR$ (library) condition values% Message-ID: <3CFFFD95.9040104@hp.com>e   JF Mezei wrote:\ > VAX VMS 7.2, DEC-C 6.0 > M > The DEC C include for lbrdef.h that is supposed to cover all of the library\Y > functions lacks the definition of the various condition values returned by the routinesr >  > 3 > SEARCH $DISK4:[SYS0.SYSCOMMON...]*.h LBR$_ILLFMT 9 >  > yields NOTHING.r > D > I looked in the $LBRDEF macro in STARLET.MLB but it also lacks theH > error/status codes for the LBR routines , as documented in the Utility > routines manual.   > M > Can anyone tell me where I can find a textual representation of the libraryw@ > routine condition values so that I could code my own .h file ?  H For reasons which I cannot answer, the LBR$_ symbols are only available G as external literals.  Awkwardly, if you declare them as external ints  H in C and always take their address, you'll get the value you want.  The  linker will resolve them.    -- d John Reagani' Compaq Pascal/{A|I}MACRO Project LeaderS Hewlett-Packard Company    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 06 Jun 2002 21:39:35 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> , Subject: Re: LBR$ (library) condition values, Message-ID: <3D000ED1.ED56243E@videotron.ca>   John Reagan wrote:I > For reasons which I cannot answer, the LBR$_ symbols are only available  > as external literals.I  : If I sign an NDA, would I be able to get their values ????  I Sounds like a perfect opportunity to start some conspiracy theory here... N Compaq/HP preventing its employees from revealing reasons why some symbols are kept hidden :-) :-) :-),   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 06 Jun 2002 14:38:26 -0400I- From: Jonathan Boswell <jsb@ost.cdrh.fda.gov> < Subject: Re: Library files as high performance file system ?0 Message-ID: <3CFFAC22.BFFA57A9@ost.cdrh.fda.gov>   Hein van den Heuvel wrote: > Wouldn't it be neatsM > to the able to have soem file name syntax to open a libary module from RMS?iG > It's not going to happen, but I'd love to be able to say for example: 0 >      TYPE SYS$LIBRARY:SYS$STARLET_C.TLB\NAMDEF   Why will it not happen?/  L How about let's exploit the underutilized <> syntax for directories?  Rather thanK the backslash you have above, it seems more natural to me to suppose that au library:N file might be regarded by the file system as a special kind of directory, like so:   - $ type sys$library:<sys$starlet_C.tlb>namedefe  B Obviously an ambiguity must be resolved, such as IF there exists aP [SYSLIB.SYS$STARLET_C.TLB] directory, THEN use it as a directory.  Otherwise use itH as a library file in [SYSLIB].  I would make this the default for the []	 directory(O syntax, while resolving ambiguity the other way around for <> syntax.  Or mayben thisL would break too many procedures, and an unambiguous interpretation ([] means dir,O <> means library file) would be better.  Doing a quick search/window=0 *.com onsP [SYSEXE] and [SYSMGR], I find that relatively few system files use the <> syntaxP and would need to be updated.  I suppose a system logical would have to exist inN order to get the new behavior, or else some user procedures would still break.    - JBn   ------------------------------    Date: 07 Jun 2002 02:27:21 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>< Subject: Re: Library files as high performance file system ?- Message-ID: <87660wuut2.fsf@prep.synonet.com>   / JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> writes:_   > Just crious:  rB > There are many complaints about how slow the VMS file system is,8 > especially with the creation of many many small files.  iC > Could library files (.TLBs) scale to handle large amount of smallIC > files ? For instance, a library file to handle newsgroup postingse > for instance.    > Like 75K posting from c.o.vms in a .TLB? Not a problem, and itC compresses pretty well as well. Want a copy :) Took about 10 min to- create as I remember.e  D > I assume tat module deletes would be problematic and might requireF > the library file be recreated at regular intervals to reclaim space.  0 That is a downside if you are deleting elements.   -- e< Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda. @                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------   Date: 6 Jun 2002 15:53:56 -0600 - From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) < Subject: Re: Library files as high performance file system ?3 Message-ID: <v$t9aAI4Nqi1@eisner.encompasserve.org>u  k In article <3CFF7917.D0A53A0B@eps.zko.dec.com>, Hein van den Heuvel <hein_netscape@eps.zko.dec.com> writes:   T > In the late days of RSX, they came up with what I thought was a neat feature whereW > libraries became integrated with the (fcs) files open/closes. You could run a commandd] > file (at processor) straight from a library . No need to extract first. Wouldn't it be neatnM > to the able to have soem file name syntax to open a libary module from RMS?VG > It's not going to happen, but I'd love to be able to say for example:s0 >      TYPE SYS$LIBRARY:SYS$STARLET_C.TLB\NAMDEF  5    For consistency (this is VMS we're talking about):o  -    type sys$library:sys$starlet_c.tlb(namdef)v   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 6 Jun 2002 17:08:26 -0400- From: "Peter Weaver" <peter.weaver@stelco.ca>o< Subject: Re: Library files as high performance file system ?5 Message-ID: <adoj0a$12p87$1@ID-141708.news.dfncis.de>a  : "Bob Koehler" <koehler@encompasserve.org> wrote in message- news:v$t9aAI4Nqi1@eisner.encompasserve.org...sE > In article <3CFF7917.D0A53A0B@eps.zko.dec.com>, Hein van den Heuvel ' <hein_netscape@eps.zko.dec.com> writes:i >t > >...I > > It's not going to happen, but I'd love to be able to say for example:)2 > >      TYPE SYS$LIBRARY:SYS$STARLET_C.TLB\NAMDEF >c7 >    For consistency (this is VMS we're talking about):0 >3/ >    type sys$library:sys$starlet_c.tlb(namdef)m >e   $ type libtyp.comA $!% $ lib_name = "''f$element(0,"(",p1)'" ) $ module = "''f$element(1,"(",p1)'" - ")"e $!5 $ pipe library /extract='module /output=sys$output: - (   'lib_name' | type sys$pipe: /page=save $!  / $ @libtyp sys$library:sys$starlet_c.tlb(namdef)=       -- Peter WeaverL Opinions are my own, and do not reflect the opinions of my employer, nor theK company that it sub-contracts to, nor the company that it sub-contracts to.    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 06 Jun 2002 21:21:01 GMT ' From: Jeffrey Chimene <jeff@nospam.net>e< Subject: Re: Library files as high performance file system ?( Message-ID: <3CFFD233.A1DC8A@nospam.net>  % I see several downsides to this idea:c1     1. It's annoyingly easy to corrupt libraries.cD     2. The librarian's indexing technique is not as high-performance( (tunable/speedy/reliable) as RMS indexed?     3. The librarian file format is opaque; the API is the onlyS documented access techniqueiF The upside of your idea is quite valid: reduce the number of directoryE entries and increase speed. Personally, if you have an implementationc< itch to scratch, I'd create an API based on a handful of the9 lbr$ routines, and point that API at an RMS indexed file.a  G FWIW, I implemented a TPU / LBR interface many, many moons ago. It's ineH the DECUS^H^H^H^HEncompass library under "HLM - help library maintenanceF utility." In there you'll find DEC BASIC source for a shareable image,I and various TPU routines that know what .HLP files look like and call the $ BASIC routines to read/write a .HLB.   -- microsoft free by 2003   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 06 Jun 2002 17:53:30 -0400w- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>e< Subject: Re: Library files as high performance file system ?, Message-ID: <3CFFD9D7.1BFD04E0@videotron.ca>   Jonathan Boswell wrote:i2 > >      TYPE SYS$LIBRARY:SYS$STARLET_C.TLB\NAMDEF  G > How about let's exploit the underutilized <> syntax for directories?    5 Or use the exsiting syntax for partitioned datasets :i+ 	TYPE SYS$LIBRARY:SYS$STARLET_C.TLB(NAMDEF)r  K Actually, what would be the most welcome is the ability for TPU to directly I read and write to text libraries without having to go out of TPU to issue 3 Library commands and go via intermediate VMS files.l   ------------------------------   Date: 6 Jun 2002 15:52:36 -0700s( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)< Subject: Re: Library files as high performance file system ?= Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0206061452.56483225@posting.google.com>   a JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message news:<3CFF3AFA.CD3C61B2@videotron.ca>...d > Just crious: > M > There are many complaints about how slow the VMS file system is, especially'- > with the creation of many many small files.m > O > Could library files (.TLBs) scale to handle large amount of small files ? For0E > instance, a library file to handle newsgroup postings for instance.  > P > I assume tat module deletes would be problematic and might require the library: > file be recreated at regular intervals to reclaim space.  H why not just load the problem files/directories into DECram and run them: in main memory if RMS on ultrascsi2/3 is too slow for you?   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 07 Jun 2002 03:05:15 GMTo4 From: Hein van den Heuvel <hein.vandenheuvel@hp.com>< Subject: Re: Library files as high performance file system ?& Message-ID: <3D002158.BAD9DAAF@hp.com>   > Jonathan Boswell wrote: 4 > > >      TYPE SYS$LIBRARY:SYS$STARLET_C.TLB\NAMDEF  H > > How about let's exploit the underutilized <> syntax for directories?  = The "\" seperator was just the first thing that came to mind.SG It was by no means a suggestion that it woudl be the 'right' seperator.r  K How about just using the full filename where a directoy (.DIR) is expected. H As RMS opens the file, it could recognize a TLB file through attributes,6 signature and usage, and use LBR$ functions to dig in.     > JF Mezei wrote: 7 > Or use the exsiting syntax for partitioned datasets :s4 >         TYPE SYS$LIBRARY:SYS$STARLET_C.TLB(NAMDEF)   Sure, that also has potential.  M > Actually, what would be the most welcome is the ability for TPU to directly K > read and write to text libraries without having to go out of TPU to issueS5 > Library commands and go via intermediate VMS files.c  F That was precisely the point I thought I was making. Tranparent use ofF library modules where file specs are used. Within TPU, to execute as a. command file, to search, to compile, whatever.   Just idle thoughts.... Hein.s   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 06 Jun 2002 18:21:31 GMTc( From: Don Sykes <annonymous@pacbell.net> Subject: Re: Logging user usageB+ Message-ID: <3CFFA884.4A088C0E@pacbell.net>C   DigiDemon wrote: > ? > On Thu, 06 Jun 2002 08:08:26 -0600, Jan-Erik Sderholm wrote:e > @ > Actually, just when they logged on and off is what I'm looking > for...thanks!t >  > DigiDemonk  ; Assuming your using Compaq TCPIP Services, just look in thea SYS$MANAGER:OPERATOR.LOG.  You should see entries like:9 	%%%%%%%%%%%  OPCOM   6-JUN-2002 05:18:15.38  %%%%%%%%%%%u# 	Message from user INTERnet on VMS2t1 	TELNET Login from Host: 210.96.83.194 Port: 1737d     -- H   Have VMS. Will Travel. Wire Paladin @alphase.com 
 San Franciscol   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 07 Jun 2002 02:18:02 GMT 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>r Subject: Re: Logging user usage ' Message-ID: <3D001B7D.3DE56377@fsi.net>a   DigiDemon wrote: > ? > On Thu, 06 Jun 2002 08:08:26 -0600, Jan-Erik Sderholm wrote:= > @ > Actually, just when they logged on and off is what I'm looking > for...thanks!s  > For all processes, the Accounting Facility will record processA terminations, including termination date/time, duration and finalF completion status.   -- = David J. Dachtera= dba DJE Systems= http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/0   ------------------------------   Date: 7 Jun 2002 04:49:00 GMTu2 From: "Zane H. Healy" <healyzh@shell1.aracnet.com> Subject: Re: low-end VMS, Message-ID: <adpdvs01oc7@enews4.newsguy.com>  0 David J. Dachtera <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote:M >> > When the Itanium laptop is available, VMS should install and boot on it.u >> iH >> The question is, will there be an Itanium laptop available for $1000?  B > Is there a current IA32 laptop that sells new for less than $1K?  L I for one would be willing to pay twice that for a modern laptop that could H run OpenVMS native.  Unfortuantly, I don't expect to see a Itanium basedI laptop anytime soon.  Have you ever seen an Itanium CPU?  I have, they'rep5 not exactly small (even when you open up the casing).o   			Zanea   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 6 Jun 2002 21:34:48 -04001 From: "Island (hpaq.net)" <dbturner@islandco.com>aF Subject: Re: low-end VMS (was: Re: Mark Gorham's Beer Bash in Reading)/ Message-ID: <ug03c4qjikpq92@news.supernews.com>p  @ And no doubt it'll "blue screen" just like the other MS products  = No my system didn't crash - it was just a rebbot required ;0)P   DT    D Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> wrote in message5 news:01KIM98ECNAG96WQWC@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com...wK > > What's happening to the OpenVMS port is that *any* Itanium architecturetH > > system will be able to boot VMS, no firmware, no PALcode, no special > > setting, it'll just go.N >D > Right. >iL > > When the Itanium laptop is available, VMS should install and boot on it. >tG > The question is, will there be an Itanium laptop available for $1000?e   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 07 Jun 2002 02:21:38 GMTd1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>pF Subject: Re: low-end VMS (was: Re: Mark Gorham's Beer Bash in Reading)' Message-ID: <3D001C55.38CFE7B6@fsi.net>    Phillip Helbig wrote:e > K > > What's happening to the OpenVMS port is that *any* Itanium architecturefH > > system will be able to boot VMS, no firmware, no PALcode, no special > > setting, it'll just go.c >  > Right. > L > > When the Itanium laptop is available, VMS should install and boot on it. > G > The question is, will there be an Itanium laptop available for $1000?f  @ Is there a current IA32 laptop that sells new for less than $1K?   -- l David J. Dachteran dba DJE Systemsi http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/b   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 07 Jun 2002 02:43:09 GMTfL From: winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU ("Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr")F Subject: Re: low-end VMS (was: Re: Mark Gorham's Beer Bash in Reading)8 Message-ID: <00A0F11A.D9B50866@SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>  [ In article <3D001C55.38CFE7B6@fsi.net>, "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> writes:  >Phillip Helbig wrote: >> =L >> > What's happening to the OpenVMS port is that *any* Itanium architectureI >> > system will be able to boot VMS, no firmware, no PALcode, no specialf >> > setting, it'll just go. >> 6	 >> Right.y >>  M >> > When the Itanium laptop is available, VMS should install and boot on it.= >> =H >> The question is, will there be an Itanium laptop available for $1000? >-A >Is there a current IA32 laptop that sells new for less than $1K?m   Yes.  ; Dell Inspiron 2600 "From $999", SmartStep 100n "From $899".   J That's the "home & home office" price; there are discounts for corporate, ! education, and government buyers.-  9 I'm sure there are others in nearly the same price range.    -- Alany  O ===============================================================================10  Alan Winston --- WINSTON@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDUM  Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056nM  Physical mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 69, PO BOX 4349, STANFORD, CA  94309-0210.O ===============================================================================2   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 06 Jun 2002 20:16:15 +0200 B From: Michiel Erens <I.dont.want.spam@this.mailaddress.is.invalid>/ Subject: Re: Mark Gorham's Beer Bash in Reading,6 Message-ID: <3CFFA6EF.E3D@this.mailaddress.is.invalid>   Rudolf Wingert wrote:L > H > StarOffice was good and (I hope so) will be better in the new version.D > That it cost some money doesn't matter. But is it compatible to MSD > Office. I hope so, but user expirience is not as good as it shouldB > be. But if StarOffice is written in standard C, why don't we seeB > an OpenVMS version. Filestructure should not be the problem (you% > can map any typ of filestructure). d  > It only needs some volunteers to port OpenOffice, the freeware8 version that is planned to run "on all major platforms".    See : http://www.openoffice.org/   -- n ME Posted by news://news.nb.nue   ------------------------------   Date: 6 Jun 2002 16:07:41 -0600h- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) / Subject: Re: Mark Gorham's Beer Bash in Reading 3 Message-ID: <PATUeQ1zs0xI@eisner.encompasserve.org>d  o In article <jKLL8.145052$%o.13781544@bin3.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>, "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> writes:l >>B >>    Then I infer that so far you haven't asked the right people. > M > That's easy to remedy, then:  please tell us who the 'right people' are who0I > can provide credible statements about the future availability of Itanic > > systems, complete with licensed VMS software, for under $1K.  J    If you want a commitment to a price today for the second generation of H    a system which hasn't yet been booted I think you're out of luck.  I M    did not mean to respond to your $1000 remark.  (I think it's a reasonable eI    guess the first generation out the door will focus on larger systems, n-    but no I don't have a commitment on that).o  K    But if you want to know what HP is planning you could ask for an NDA if aF    there's any possibility that anyone in HP would be credible to you.  D    First start with the question "Do I believe VMS will be ported toC    IPF?"  If you can believe Mark Gorham on that, you might ask himH    about low cost systems.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 06 Jun 2002 17:28:20 -0400l- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>'/ Subject: Re: Mark Gorham's Beer Bash in ReadingP, Message-ID: <3CFFD3F4.79C506D8@videotron.ca>   Nic Clews wrote:I > What's happening to the OpenVMS port is that *any* Itanium architectureaF > system will be able to boot VMS, no firmware, no PALcode, no special > setting, it'll just go.    Yeah, heard that about Alpha.e  7 Will they also make Tandem's NSK boot on IA64 laptops ?e  N Will VMS support all the types of devices that will be tagged on to a laptop ?F Will VMS be able to boot off a DVD ? Will it support the special power. controller/conservation for laptops ? etc etc.  I HP has given every indication that VMS is to be relegated to the high endrL only. Look at the name of the department it is in, and look at the future of the DS series.   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 06 Jun 2002 21:48:25 GMTs* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>/ Subject: Re: Mark Gorham's Beer Bash in ReadingSC Message-ID: <JMQL8.151730$Oa1.14511135@bin8.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>   : "Bob Koehler" <koehler@encompasserve.org> wrote in message- news:PATUeQ1zs0xI@eisner.encompasserve.org...w   ...o  L >    But if you want to know what HP is planning you could ask for an NDA ifH >    there's any possibility that anyone in HP would be credible to you.  H Aside from the (significant) question of whether people in a position toH make decisions (and thus projections) at HP are honest, there's also theL issue that for the past 13 years now HP's predictions about Itanic have beenL consistently, and wildly, optimistic.  Put the two together, and credibility is rather difficult to come by.    > F >    First start with the question "Do I believe VMS will be ported toE >    IPF?"  If you can believe Mark Gorham on that, you might ask himn >    about low cost systems.  K Given that the VMS IPF port is already under way and (reportedly) funded bytK Intel, its status seems reasonably clear without even having to ask (thoughdH the future is always uncertain, which is why it's often wise to eat your dessert first).l  I By contrast, given that VMS won't really be available on *any* IPF systemeI for another couple of years, and that the only evidence we have so far is E that McKinley prices are about the same as Merced prices (i.e., a new J generation didn't cause them to go down - which is consistent with Intel'sJ history of having wanted to get into the 64-bit space because they felt itG would command higher margins), and that, with entry-level system prices1I higher than DS10's, the concept of a *really* 'low-cost' Itanic system is:I currently laughable, and that no obvious effort is being expended to sell@I VMS anywhere it isn't already present, and that the *only* aspect of this>I question at all under Mark's control might be VMS pricing itself, I'd saylG that the credibility of statements he (and just about anyone else we'reeG likely to be able to corner) might offer in that area would be far morel tenuous.   - bill   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 06 Jun 2002 21:49:35 GMTo# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>h/ Subject: Re: Mark Gorham's Beer Bash in Reading J Message-ID: <PNQL8.238980$t8_.210477@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>  L So maybe instead of laying some people off, HP should invest a bit in havingB those people port the suite to VMS...and only then lay them off if
 necessary.    G "Michiel Erens" <I.dont.want.spam@this.mailaddress.is.invalid> wrote in48 message news:3CFFA6EF.E3D@this.mailaddress.is.invalid... > Rudolf Wingert wrote:i > >rJ > > StarOffice was good and (I hope so) will be better in the new version.F > > That it cost some money doesn't matter. But is it compatible to MSF > > Office. I hope so, but user expirience is not as good as it shouldD > > be. But if StarOffice is written in standard C, why don't we seeD > > an OpenVMS version. Filestructure should not be the problem (you& > > can map any typ of filestructure). >P@ > It only needs some volunteers to port OpenOffice, the freeware: > version that is planned to run "on all major platforms". >y" > See : http://www.openoffice.org/ >l > -- > ME > Posted by news://news.nb.nu,   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 06 Jun 2002 23:30:26 -0400/( From: David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>/ Subject: Re: Mark Gorham's Beer Bash in Readingl* Message-ID: <3D0028D2.20907@tsoft-inc.com>   Bob Koehler wrote:  q > In article <jKLL8.145052$%o.13781544@bin3.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>, "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> writes:o > B >>>   Then I infer that so far you haven't asked the right people. >>> M >>That's easy to remedy, then:  please tell us who the 'right people' are who I >>can provide credible statements about the future availability of Itanic3> >>systems, complete with licensed VMS software, for under $1K.    ) First lets state a bit of recent history.b  N The best commercial OS available today had it's users told that VMS was dead, Q and they should move to Alpha NT.  The same OS has had virtually no respect from  N the upper management of the companies that owned it for the better part of 10 P years.  This same OS has had the future of the world's best hardware cancelled, F prior to proof that the proposed replacement could ever be a credible O replacement.  Now, if that doesn't cause you to be skeptical, and wonder about aO the idiots running things, nothing ever will.  For most of us, there is at the   least some concern.s    L >    If you want a commitment to a price today for the second generation of J >    a system which hasn't yet been booted I think you're out of luck.  I O >    did not mean to respond to your $1000 remark.  (I think it's a reasonable  K >    guess the first generation out the door will focus on larger systems,  / >    but no I don't have a commitment on that).m    M But one of the arguments of those who committed this stupidity is that IA-64 eQ will be high volumn, and therefore low price.  Never mentioned such items as VMS PI device drivers vs windoz device drivers and such as possible reasons why eP changing the CPU will not necessarily make use of VMS on such a proposed system O any less expensive.  The list of reasons why IA-64 VMS will not be inexpensive u could be quite long.  O It's pointless to discuss the possibility of IA-64 cratering in a big way when nM Hammer takes over the volumn high end of x86 based systems.  That story will s$ soon play out and be evident to all.    M >    But if you want to know what HP is planning you could ask for an NDA if cH >    there's any possibility that anyone in HP would be credible to you. > F >    First start with the question "Do I believe VMS will be ported to
 >    IPF?"    O Yes, I do think that the IPF port will be completed.  That's a good thing from rN several perspectives.  But it doesn't promise much, at least until IA-64 is a O competitive CPU, and cheap.  At this time either one of those is chancy.  Both   might require a major miracle.  ;   If you can believe Mark Gorham on that, you might ask hims >    about low cost systems.  M I'd do so, but the future of VMS will depend upon larger systems, and I doubtiP that the low end will will do much better than it does now. Decent, but far from great.   Dave   ------------------------------   Date: 6 Jun 2002 22:03:00 -0700/- From: merritt.robert@spsd.sk.ca (rob merritt)-; Subject: Re: New hobbyist cluster audit server hang on bootv= Message-ID: <b6bf97d5.0206062102.3d939a7b@posting.google.com>f  F Fixed set vaxcluster 0 votes 1 expected votes 1 , no longer a cluster?F this probably isn't the proper way to do it but it got me booting no I; have some sysgen work to do to put it right any suggestionsi                  r merritt.robert@spsd.sk.ca (rob merritt) wrote in message news:<b6bf97d5.0205180605.471807aa@posting.google.com>...: > Sorry for the cryptic subject line , here is my problem: > H > Clusterd a 400/60 vaxvms 7.2-1 (sys0) + a 4000 vlc (sys10) they bootedF > fine the first couple of times then the disk serving 4000/60 stopped > booting up5 > and remained at the starting auditserver line belowe > D > %STDRV-I-STARTUP, OpenVMS startup begun at 19-MAY-2002 07:56:30.858 > %MSCPLOAD-I-CONFIGSCAN, enabled automatic disk serving8 > %MSCPLOAD-I-CONFIGSCAN, enabled automatic disk serving? > %RUN-S-PROC_ID, identification of created process is 20200048w* > %DCL-S-SPAWNED, process SYSTEM_1 spawnedA > %SET-I-NEWAUDSRV, identification of new audit server process ise
 > 2020004E > F >  being a hack I thought maybe GBLSECTIONS were low so I : >>>b/1 and	 > boostedeE > the current GBLSECTIONS from 450 to 650 then continued still hangs.a > 8 > anyone have any ideas whats hanging the audit server?  > : > here is the output of sho /clu from conversational boot:	 > >>> b/1n >  > 	 > -DKA100  > SYSBOOT>  SHO /CLUD > Parameter Name            Current    Default     Min.     Max.     > Unit  DynamicTD > --------------            -------    -------    -------  -------   > ----  -------hB > CLUSTER_CREDITS                10         10        10       128	 > Credits B > VAXCLUSTER                      2          1         0         2 > Coded-valuH > EXPECTED_VOTES                  1          1         1       127 VotesH > VOTES                           2          1         0       127 VotesB > RECNXINTERVAL                  20         20         1     32767 > Seconds    DH > DISK_QUORUM     "DKA100          "    "    "    "    "    "ZZZZ" AsciiH > QDSKVOTES                       1          1         0       127 VotesB > QDSKINTERVAL                    3          3         1     32767	 > SecondsfB > ALLOCLASS                       0          0         0       255 > Pure-numbeB > LOCKDIRWT                       0          0         0       255 > Pure-numbeB > NISCS_CONV_BOOT                 0          0         0         1	 > BooleandB > NISCS_LOAD_PEA0                 1          0         0         1	 > BooleanoB > CHECK_CLUSTER                   0          0         0         1	 > BooleanyB > NISCS_PORT_SERV                 0          0         0         3 > Bit-encodeB > MSCP_LOAD                       1          0         0     16384 > Coded-valuB > MSCP_SERVE_ALL                  1          4         0        15 > Bit-EncodeH > MSCP_BUFFER                   128        128        16        -1 PagesF > MSCP_CREDITS                    8          8         2       128 I/OB > TAPE_ALLOCLASS                  0          0         0       255 > Pure-numbeB > TMSCP_LOAD                      0          0         0         3 > Coded-valuH > NISCS_MAX_PKTSZ              1498       1498      1080      8192 BytesH > NISCS_LAN_OVRHD                18         18         0       256 BytesB > TMSCP_SERVE_ALL                 0          0         0        15 > Bit-EncodeB > CWCREPRC_ENABLE                 1          1         0         1 > Bit-mask   DB > MSCP_CMD_TMO                    0          0         02147483647 > Seconds    D > 
 > SYSBOOT>   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 06 Jun 2002 17:45:35 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>r Subject: Re: No new Alpha sales", Message-ID: <3CFFD7FD.792CF62C@videotron.ca>   Bob Ceculski wrote:r( > when is SAP going to be ported to VMS?  0 At the same time Intel starts to sell EV8 chips.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 06 Jun 2002 17:24:28 -0400c- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>t Subject: Re: Open Letter to HP, Message-ID: <3CFFD30C.5782EBA1@videotron.ca>   John Smith wrote:  > ? > http://thenew.hp.com/country/us/eng/companyinfo/execteam.htmlt > : > For execs and the Board. Be sure to read the whole page.  L Thanks. I find it ost interesting that Capellas is on the Board of directors9 of HP. As a mere president, does he really belong there ?2  I Looks like Carly stacked the board in her favour, with her poodle (Curly)R always supporting her.   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 06 Jun 2002 22:43:36 GMTnL From: winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU ("Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr") Subject: Re: Open Letter to HP8 Message-ID: <00A0F0F9.6275D38C@SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>  \ In article <3CFEF04C.2084D2BC@videotron.ca>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> writes: >Bill Todd wrote:hM >> Carly was already in trouble a year ago, and only bought herself some timeaF >> with the Compaq debacle (since a BoD stupid enough to go for it wasL >> certainly stupid enough to give her an opportunity to 'prove' its worth).N >> Unless she can come up with a similar scam next year, HP may finally decideA >> it's had enough of her before going completely down the tubes.  >2N >How much of the HP board is made up of ex Compaq board members ? Or is the HPM >board still very much the same HP board (sans Hwelett) that existed prior tod >Carly and Curly's folly ? >5H >HP has inherited many Compaq employees and directors who have the wrong@ >attitudes for profitablility (Capellas, Winkler come to mind).  > M >If Carly is throw out, will she be replaced by Capellas or some other Wintelr >slave ? >>N >In my opinion, one would need Hewlett to take over and do a major cleanup andI >replace wintel slaves with enterprise folks. Until that is done, HP willpI >continue to be a wintel company with zero odds of VMS allowed to competes >against Wintel.  H You know, the enemy of your enemy isn't necessarily your friend.  WalterO Hewlett wanted HP to focus on the printing business; I'm not sure why you thinkS that'd be good for enterprise.   -- Alan&    O ===============================================================================u0  Alan Winston --- WINSTON@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDUM  Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056=M  Physical mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 69, PO BOX 4349, STANFORD, CA  94309-0210DO ===============================================================================5   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 06 Jun 2002 23:16:20 GMT3* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> Subject: Re: Open Letter to HPB Message-ID: <83SL8.128593$%y.13684929@bin4.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>  H ""Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr"" <winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>C wrote in message news:00A0F0F9.6275D38C@SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU...s   ...   J > You know, the enemy of your enemy isn't necessarily your friend.  WalterK > Hewlett wanted HP to focus on the printing business; I'm not sure why youi thinks  > that'd be good for enterprise.  K Indeed, Walter's alternate proposal was not exactly inspired, and I suspectiL he would have been better off not airing one.  Perhaps he felt that a simpleJ "This merger is stupid:  we should get back to doing well what we once did7 well" assertion was just too sensible to fly in such annL image-over-everything society and that he *had* to suggest *some* new course
 of action.  I But I suspect that had he prevailed he would have been more a manager (in.G the style of the founders) than a generalissimo (in Carly's idiom:  I'd0L venture a guess at what the feminine for 'Il Duce' might be, but it would beK too vulgar) and that returning to its knitting is pretty much what HP would 0 have wound up doing, and been better off for it.   - bill   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 07 Jun 2002 01:55:09 GMTi1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>. Subject: Re: Open Letter to HP' Message-ID: <3D00161C.3E2FA0C9@fsi.net>e   Paul Repacholi wrote:  > / > young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) writes:I > ! > > It would be a waste of money.e > 8 > > http://www.computerworld.com/services/mediakit/rates > H > > $21000 an ad page for black and white in ComputerWorld.  A whole lot: > > more of them than 1 minute of network commercial time. > F > Bull. One ISV staying on board, and one down stream sale as a resultG > would more than cover it. A visible ad campain will sell what hp need A > most of all; credibility that VMS is real and worth supporting.w  G Paul raises a good point here. My experience working at the home of theyG National Consumer Database taught me an interesting bit: advertising isuE sometimes the worst investment a business can make in terms of ROI: aeF reasonably expectable response to a direct-mail campaign, for example,A is only about 1%. That's where the numbers start to play into the0H equation. A one-million piece mailing, even at the full First Class rateD of $0.34 per piece comes out to $340,000. You'll do well to get a 1%D response or 10,000 responses. Of that, statistically, only about 20%C will actually result in a sale (unless it's a respond-to-order only D promotion, with no respond-for-more-info option, then you can expectE less responses but they'll all be orders for product). So, out of one6< million pieces mailed you can expect to make some 200 sales.  C That's pretty lousy, unless those 200 sales bring in enough cash toWE offset the cost of the mailing, processing the responses and all your  other costs.  F From that perspective, then, $340,000 will either buy a targetted mass" mailing or about 15 full-page ads.  6 The question is: which will garner the greater return?  F *THAT* is where the balance between margin and volume comes into play.G Get it right, and you do well. Get it mediocre and you do mediocre. Gete" it wrong and you do, well, shitty.  D Since VMS is the kind of product that can help sell long-term incomeH like support contracts, finding the balance becomes a larger proposition? still. You have to choose between cash now or cash-flow for theiE immediate future. Tough balance. Most folks want both, and try to geta
 both, but ...w  G > Still think it would be cheaper and better to send Curly on a one wayr > trip to Kashmir though...e  ) Nah, things are bad enough there already.o   -- h David J. Dachterau dba DJE Systemss http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/e   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 06 Jun 2002 23:15:09 -0400 ( From: David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> Subject: Re: Open Letter to HP, Message-ID: <3D00253D.1020804@tsoft-inc.com>  * Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr wrote:  ^ > In article <3CFEF04C.2084D2BC@videotron.ca>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> writes: >  >>Bill Todd wrote: >>M >>>Carly was already in trouble a year ago, and only bought herself some timeyF >>>with the Compaq debacle (since a BoD stupid enough to go for it wasL >>>certainly stupid enough to give her an opportunity to 'prove' its worth).N >>>Unless she can come up with a similar scam next year, HP may finally decideA >>>it's had enough of her before going completely down the tubes.  >>>tO >>How much of the HP board is made up of ex Compaq board members ? Or is the HPoN >>board still very much the same HP board (sans Hwelett) that existed prior to >>Carly and Curly's folly ?e >>I >>HP has inherited many Compaq employees and directors who have the wrong A >>attitudes for profitablility (Capellas, Winkler come to mind). o >>N >>If Carly is throw out, will she be replaced by Capellas or some other Wintel	 >>slave ?  >>O >>In my opinion, one would need Hewlett to take over and do a major cleanup andoJ >>replace wintel slaves with enterprise folks. Until that is done, HP willJ >>continue to be a wintel company with zero odds of VMS allowed to compete >>against Wintel.- >> > J > You know, the enemy of your enemy isn't necessarily your friend.  WalterQ > Hewlett wanted HP to focus on the printing business; I'm not sure why you think1  > that'd be good for enterprise.  < Ha!  At last someone shows some thinking.  Good observation.  H Maybe a Richard Marcello would be a good choice.  He has championed the N enterprise cause in the past.  My impression is that many of his failures, if L that's even the right description, are caused by how he is limited by upper = management.  Turn him loose and see what can be accomplished.    Dave   ------------------------------   Date: 6 Jun 2002 15:20:17 -0700e( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)P Subject: Re: OpenVMS, Volume Desktop OS (Re: Mark Gorham's Beer Bash in Reading)= Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0206061420.394ad563@posting.google.com>   ^ Osmo Kujala <kujala@tukki.cc.jyu.fi> wrote in message news:<adnmh9$4f3$1@mordred.cc.jyu.fi>...X > Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <andrew_nospam.harrison_remove_this@sun#.com> wrote: > ? > > OpenVMS is not a volume desktop OS and nothing like SunRays/? > > exist in the OpenVMS space to provide server based desktopsn > ...- > K > OpenVMS is good OS for desktop and has better that SunRays "server based"iJ > environment. OpenVMS doesn't have volume because DEC/Compaq/HP choose to > give volume for Windows. :-(I > (They even actively invented trick's to keep OpenVMS hardware far away 8 > from low cost level.)eL > Diskless VAX or Alpha workstations can easily be added to cluster as full J > members. Some of those workstations may be with disk and act as servers M > and can of course be used as workstation same time (if the disks are quiet b
 > enough). > H > If the flexibility (all-purpose nature) of OpenVMS is not used I don'tC > understand how it could survive. Think for example a small officesE > for which OpenVMS would be very good for server, but they need someaL > workstations too. If there's not available OpenVMS desktops they certainly' > try to use Wintel for the server too.e > K > OpenVMS can, and has survived as niche OS. But that isn't interesting andSH > not for us. We have now near 100 servers in our computer room. Most ofI > them PC:s with Linux, unix, Windows etc. . Sure OpenVMS would have muchoF > to offer for that. Would make lots of empty space there and make theH > services more reliable and easier to maintain. BUT when OpenVMS is so M > neglected and kept secret, I would never even suggest to increase its use. t > 
 > My opinionsn >               Osmo  I so you are running 100 servers instead of several, or maybe even two, and H costing yourself a ton of money ... we are using vms is small groups andG it pays big dividends ... we do our own hardware maintenance and have abF inexpensive software contract ... who cares if its a secret, that justH gives us an advantage over our competitors ... I just sit back and laughE sometimes how stupid people are ... VMS is known of by many, but theyeH instead choose your environment, and cost themselves and their companiesE tons and tons of money ... if you were wise, you would not follow thesH crowd ... when they fall off the cliff, you will join them ... turn back before its too late!   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 6 Jun 2002 19:49:08 -04001 From: "Island (hpaq.net)" <dbturner@islandco.com>n+ Subject: REPOST OF DS10L 512MB 40GB Speciali/ Message-ID: <ufvt5lh7l1u32c@news.supernews.com>   8 DS10L 6/466 466Mhz New condition with 12 months warranty 512MB Memory (2 x 256MB)$ Low Profile Floppy & CDROM installedJ 40GB Seagate Barracuda ATA100  ATAPI Disk installed (VMS/Tru64 Compatible) Dual 10/100 Built in ethernet 
 Power Cord Dual Serial Port
 Parallel Port 	 USB Portsp  1 Price is now $950 - large quantity in stock !!!!!v    L This is a COMP.OS.VMS special price and is not being advertised in any other	 newsgroup : You must include a copy of this post to receive this price Delivery is not included   VMS license for above: $750o  Shipping: Germany/France/EU $110 UK: 90 USA Ground West Coast: $40 USA East Coast $30! Canada Air Economy West Coast $90 ! Canada Air Economy East Coast $80  Japan/Far East/Australia $130s  2 Warranty: 12 months from Island Computers US Corp.  6 Now tell us you can't afford an EV6 VMS system !!!!!!!   -- Island Computers US Corp.  2700 Gregory Streetc Savannah GA 31404  Toll Free: 1-877 636 4332n International: 001 912 447 66226  Facsimile:      001 912 201 0096 dbturner@hpaq.netc www.hpaq.net   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 06 Jun 2002 22:28:59 -0400w2 From: rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger)Y Subject: Re: Running Test and Production systems on different Galaxy instances in one ES4cL Message-ID: <rdeininger-0606022229000001@11cust231.tnt2.nashua.nh.da.uu.net>  = In article <770c7f9b.0206060827.52f35c66@posting.google.com>,r( twilliams@gscc.com (Tom Williams) wrote:  @ >We're looking into migrating our environments to ES40s, and are> >planning on having each box contain two Galaxy instances: oneE >production, one test. Each instance will have its own sets of disks,AD >separate UAFs, etc. Assuming the instances are set up correctly, isA >there anything that might happen on the test system (hardware orNB >software) that could affect the production system?  I realize I'mC >being vague, but I don't feel comfortable having production in thea? >same cabinet as test.  All comments, pro and con, are welcome.e  J The ES40 hardware can support 2 instances, but they are not as independentF as intances in the current GS-series systems or the forthcoming Marvel systems.  F Some hardware is shared by both instances. If it fails, both instancesJ will be affected.  Some hardware is "logically" dedicated to one instance,C but electrically visible to both.  Problems in an I/O adapter, CPU, G memory, or crucial "glue" chip could take out the whole box.  In short,-8 this is not a particularly fault tolerant configuration.  I It does give you the ability to move some resources between instances.  I G think you can split the 4 CPUs 1/3, 2/2, or 3/1.  The allocation of I/O  busses is fixed.  I A more robust, fault-tolerant solution would be pairs of 2-CPU boxes like B the DS20 family.  But this would not give you the flexibility of a two-instance ES40.  E You should likely find your friendly neighborhood HP sales rep or VMSdI ambassador, and explain your needs in detail.  You might want to go for aAC test drive in one of the VMS customer labs.  You could try out your1 applications on real systems.    ------------------------------   Date: 6 Jun 2002 11:08:52 -0700 1 From: keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com (Keith Parris)2% Subject: Re: Show cluster not working = Message-ID: <cf15391e.0206061008.47d3d353@posting.google.com>I  d "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> wrote in message news:<CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIEEODFAAA.tom@kednos.com>...; > on VAX 7.1.  But works on other nodes, alphas 6.2,7.1,7.3L  C There have been some patch kits for SHOW CLUSTER.  Might be worth a ? try.  Look for a CLIU kit on VAX or either CLIUTL or an _UPDATE  wrap-up kit on Alpha.A: ----------------------------------------------------------: Keith Parris | parris <at> DECUServe <dot> decus <dot> org   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 06 Jun 2002 18:38:04 GMT 8 From: hammond@not@peek.ppb.cpqcorp.net (Charlie Hammond)% Subject: Re: STARTUP stops after boot12 Message-ID: <g_NL8.21$ma1.877707@news.cpqcorp.net>  ( In article <3CFF8DE0.FC0C7FF1@Free.fr>, / Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@Free.fr> writes:0  J >yes, I did [SET/STARTUP=OPA0], but this parameter is volatile, isn't it? < >Or it should be recorded in one of the systartup_Px params.  I The startup file is set and viewed with the [SET|SHOW] /STARTUP commands. G It is not a "normal" system parameter.  However, it is saved, depending ! on the setting of WRITESYSPARAMS.i  ? If you want parameter changes made in SYSBOOT to NOT be saved, 00 set WRITESYSPARAMS to 0 before you exit SYSBOOT.A (And note that this means the 0 setting of WRITESYSPARAMS is also  not saved.)z  I Caution: Compaq warns against changing WRITESYSPARAMS.  (And one supposes-D HP does too -- <smile>)  So, do this cautiously.  You should NOT set  WRITESYSPARAMS to 0 permanently.  G (Frankly, I don't know the implications of changing WRITESYSPARAMS, but-I bot SYSGEN and SYSMAN help warns against chaning it.  My suggestion above.' is based on opersonal experience only.)    -- tK     Charlie Hammond -- Compaq Computer Corporation -- Pompano Beach  FL USA 8                        Compaq is now part of the New HP!H        (hammond@not@peek.ppb.cpqcorp.net -- remove "@not" when replying)J       All opinions expressed are my own and not necessarily my employer's.   ------------------------------   Date: 6 Jun 2002 13:32:10 -0600  From: briggs@encompasserve.org% Subject: Re: STARTUP stops after bootl3 Message-ID: <EJwPmMnpz7aL@eisner.encompasserve.org>-  W In article <3CFF8DE0.FC0C7FF1@Free.fr>, Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@Free.fr> writes:oP > yes, I did, but this parameter is volatile, isn't it? Or it should be recorded$ > in one of the systartup_Px params.  6 There is no such thing as a volatile SYSGEN parameter.  L There are _dynamic_ parameters.  Changes in those take effect on the runningJ system (though some of them such as TTY_DEFCHAR have effects most commonly felt at system boot time).  L There are nondynamic paramters.  Changes in these take effect only at system startup.  A There is an _active_ parameter set.  This is what you change whenHF you do a SYSGEN> WRITE ACTIVE.  This makes _dynamic_ parameter changes take effect.  E THere is a _current_ parameter set.  This is what you change when you G do a SYSGEN> WRITE CURRENT.  This makes all parameter changes effectivet! when the system is next rebooted.y  C By default, any changes you make at the SYSBOOT> prompt are writtenh? back as if you had done a WRITE CURRENT.  You can override thisr@ behavior by setting WRITESYSPARAMS to 0.  (I don't think SYSBOOTD actually updates the parameter file -- it's something a little later7 in the startup process, but I disremember the details).d   	John Briggs   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 06 Jun 2002 23:49:49 +0200b- From: Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@Free.fr>d% Subject: Re: STARTUP stops after bootn' Message-ID: <3CFFD8FE.66DDE2A2@Free.fr>r   briggs@encompasserve.org wrote:a > Y > In article <3CFF8DE0.FC0C7FF1@Free.fr>, Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@Free.fr> writes:rR > > yes, I did, but this parameter is volatile, isn't it? Or it should be recorded& > > in one of the systartup_Px params. > 8 > There is no such thing as a volatile SYSGEN parameter.  6 set/startup at console prompt is a sysgen parameter???   D.   ------------------------------   Date: 6 Jun 2002 17:41:46 -0700= From: wingwong@witty.com (wing)=- Subject: Re: TCP socket communication queries-= Message-ID: <873e96d6.0206061641.7f070a32@posting.google.com>    Thanks.   E Is there any maximum limit of the bytes read in the read(int d, void*s3 buf, int bytes) in the the socket read call in VMS?n   Wing  x "Matt Muggeridge" <Matt.Muggeridge@hp.com> wrote in message news:<eLBL8.264180$o66.679005@news-server.bigpond.net.au>...D > > Is there any chance of data loss in socket communication between' > > processes within a openvms machine?  > L > Depends on the socket type.  Stream (TCP) sockets are reliable, sequenced,D > and will not duplicate packets.  However record boundaries are notN > preserved, so at most you will be guaranteed to receive 1-byte at a time, soL > you need to reassemble and parse the stream for packets in user-space.  OnD > the other hand, datagram (UDP) sockets will only guarantee messageM > boundaries are preserved.  Otherwise datagrams may and do get discarded andoJ > replicated and arrive out of order silently.  Your application must take > care of that.e > M > Within this context, it makes no difference whether your socket is blocking  > or non-blocking. > B > > Is there any tool to trace the data thro' socket with the same > > machine? >  > $ HELP TCPTRACE  >  > Matt.r >  > --? > -------------------------------------------------------------  > OpenVMS TCP/IP Engineering > Enterprise Computing Group > Hewlett-Packard Companym > Gold Coast, AUSTRALIAe? > -------------------------------------------------------------  >  > . > "wing" <wingwong@witty.com> wrote in message9 > news:873e96d6.0206051800.67bcda89@posting.google.com...  > > Hi,d > > / > > I am new in socket programming and openvms.d > >sI > > I have written a server process and client process which communicatesm  > > with socket with each other. > >hD > > Is there any chance of data loss in socket communication between= > > processes within a openvms machine?  The socket option ise > > non-blocking.i > > B > > Is there any tool to trace the data thro' socket with the same > > machine? > >t > > Thanks.w > >a > > Wing   ------------------------------    Date: 07 Jun 2002 01:44:31 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>! Subject: Re: The HP 21-point plano- Message-ID: <87adq8uwsg.fsf@prep.synonet.com>R  % "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> writes:   B > 21) Carly and Curly collect $117 million in performance bonuses.   I think this is point 0 John.0   -- i< Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda. @                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 06 Jun 2002 17:45:15 GMTb* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>Y Subject: Re: The Press and the IA-64 Port (was Re: Another analyst says VMS port won't besB Message-ID: <LcNL8.146831$Kp.13865068@bin7.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>  < "Dave Gudewicz" <david.gudewicz@abbott.com> wrote in message+ news:ado4l9$a7f$1@fizban.pprd.abbott.com...u > Len, >eF > Your definition of the word proprietary is interesting and I for one > disagree with it.  Sorry.   I That was my initial reaction as well.  But on rereading Len's comment, it G became clear that he was not so much offering a different definition ofwJ 'proprietary' as saying that in the case in question 'proprietariness' wasJ not the issue (and while it remains true that Curly was misusing the term,% he's far from alone in that respect).v  L Of course, you could have applied his reasoning to assert that Tru64 was notG a 'proprietary' (in the misused sense) system when Samsung and API werenL providing Alphas and Alpha boxes.  And to the degree that Sun still supportsI (and may in the future support) Solaris on non-SPARC platforms it applies.H there as well.  In fact, to the degree that many applications are commonD across multiple Unix platforms, to some degree it applies to Unix in general.  H So his comment needs a bit of firming up.  Its real core seems to be theG ability to purchase near-identical hardware/OS combinations from *many*.J different suppliers such that they can be readily mixed and matched, whichJ pretty much limits hardware to x86 and limits OSs to whatever runs on x86,E biggies being Windows, Linux, *BSD, and - if indeed many Solaris ISVsuL support their applications on x86 - Solaris.  Itanic may or may not become aL similarly widely-supported hardware platform (with similarly wide-spread ISV% support) at some point in the future.r  L Of course, the down-side of all that is that it limits the customer to usingJ lowest-common-denominator hardware features and commodity OSs if they wantJ to retain their vendor-independence.  That's where 'proprietary advantage'L (and usually some associated proprietary mark-up) steps in.  And it does notG free them from dependence on the single OS vendor (which in the case ofpL Microsoft is a *big* drawback).  So while customers would like to have theirK cake and eat it too, they'll be making trade-offs between 'non-proprietary'eK (in the misused sense) and vendor-specific systems for quite some time yet,oH as long as the people who actually have to make the systems work (ratherH than just the clueless people who manage them) have a say in the matter.   - bill   >e > --	 > Dave...r >dH > Let me make the superstitions of a nation and I care not who makes its laws.f > -----Mark Twaine >s? > "Leonard Fehskens" <len.fehskens@compaq.com> wrote in messager7 > news:Xns92257D28DB274LenNewsgroupID@16.105.248.153... , > > "John Vottero" <John@mvpsi.com> wrote in+ > > news:uftenf12kcjm0d@news.supernews.com:b > >iI > > > It's very difficult to have any faith in a president that says "OurcF > > > strategy is to help Microsoft conquer the Datacentre. The era ofB > > > proprietary systems is over".  Does he not understand what aA > > > proprietary system is?  Does he think that Microsoft offers E > > > non-proprietary systems?  Does he think that Windows NT is less K > > > propritary than OpenVMS?  If he doesn't understand fundementel issuese, > > > such as this, why is he the president? > >)H > > Because your definition of proprietary is not the fundamental issue.J > > It doesn't matter if the operating system has only one supplier.  WhatG > > matters is that the boxes, and the desired applications that run on_7 > > those boxes, are available from multiple suppliers.l > >e > > len. >n >i >l   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 06 Jun 2002 19:53:09 GMTt0 From: Leonard Fehskens <len.fehskens@compaq.com>Y Subject: Re: The Press and the IA-64 Port (was Re: Another analyst says VMS port won't bec; Message-ID: <Xns9225A1CC8115ELenNewsgroupID@16.105.248.153>   - "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote ine; news:LcNL8.146831$Kp.13865068@bin7.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com: s    [stuff about customer tradeoffs]  = Thank you.  You correctly inferred everything I was implying.i   len.   ------------------------------   Date: 6 Jun 2002 15:38:55 -0700s( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)Y Subject: Re: The Press and the IA-64 Port (was Re: Another analyst says VMS port won't be = Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0206061438.3d05b8bc@posting.google.com>f  s Leonard Fehskens <len.fehskens@compaq.com> wrote in message news:<Xns92257D28DB274LenNewsgroupID@16.105.248.153>...b* > "John Vottero" <John@mvpsi.com> wrote in* > news:uftenf12kcjm0d@news.supernews.com:  > G > > It's very difficult to have any faith in a president that says "Our D > > strategy is to help Microsoft conquer the Datacentre. The era of@ > > proprietary systems is over".  Does he not understand what a? > > proprietary system is?  Does he think that Microsoft offers C > > non-proprietary systems?  Does he think that Windows NT is lesseI > > propritary than OpenVMS?  If he doesn't understand fundementel issueso+ > > such as this, why is he the president?   > F > Because your definition of proprietary is not the fundamental issue.H > It doesn't matter if the operating system has only one supplier.  WhatF > matters is that the boxes, and the desired applications that run on 5 > those boxes, are available from multiple suppliers.  >  > len.  G and VMS can run practically any unix/linux/java app with a simple port!jG so why does Capellas think VMS is proprietary?  Some one better explainoC VMS to him, because he is costing the company money selling garbageeC windoze/unix/linux and making himself look like a fool to those who,F know computing ... VMS is the best unix/linux, and windoze will always be a client!   ------------------------------   Date: 6 Jun 2002 21:59:32 -0700-- From: merritt.robert@spsd.sk.ca (rob merritt)  Subject: xtoolkit errorr= Message-ID: <b6bf97d5.0206062059.4db708f8@posting.google.com>i  E hi I am trying to set up decw on my vaxstation 4000/60 using xcursionN on my PCC , I read the info in the vmsFaq and got this far ,motif has a validpF license, all the right symbols and logicals are defined but her is theC out put I get from running a decw$terminal? any Ideas what should I  tryS    3 $ set display/create/node=192.168.0.123/trans=TCPIP5  $ r sys$system:decw$TERMINAL.EXE3 This is the Motif Version of the DECterm controllerb+ X Toolkit Error: Can't open display: _WSA4: % %DWT-F-NOMSG, Message number 03AB8204e/ %TRACE-F-TRACEBACK, symbolic stack dump followsiE module name     routine name                     line       rel PC   r abs PC  D                                                            0015557F  0015557FD                                                            00155354  00155354D                                                            00155447  00155447D                                                            0015C8BD  0015C8BDD                                                            0014EB65  0014EB65D TEA             main                            69181      0000058F  0000AE8B  B DECterm version V1.2-5 compiled at Nov  4 1998 17:37:46 with error$ occurred on Thu Jun  6 20:54:04 2002  ' The log of the DECterm error is in fileo& SYS$SYSROOT:[SYSMGR]DECTERM_ERROR.LOG;   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2002.313 ************************