1 INFO-VAX	Fri, 07 Jun 2002	Volume 2002 : Issue 314       Contents:/ Re: ? VMS 7.3.1 releasse date: some experiences / Re: ? VMS 7.3.1 releasse date: some experiences 4 Re: A dvdwrite(r)-Program: save 4.3 GB on a DVD-R(W)4 Re: A dvdwrite(r)-Program: save 4.3 GB on a DVD-R(W)4 Re: A dvdwrite(r)-Program: save 4.3 GB on a DVD-R(W)4 Re: A dvdwrite(r)-Program: save 4.3 GB on a DVD-R(W)4 Re: A dvdwrite(r)-Program: save 4.3 GB on a DVD-R(W), Re: AlphaServer 1000A Operator Control Panel, Re: AlphaServer 1000A Operator Control Panel, Re: AlphaServer 1000A Operator Control Panel, Re: AlphaServer 1000A Operator Control Panel, Re: AlphaServer 1000A Operator Control Panel# Re: Carly was here in ZKO yesterday # Re: Carly was here in ZKO yesterday # Re: Carly was here in ZKO yesterday # Re: Carly was here in ZKO yesterday # Re: Carly was here in ZKO yesterday # Re: Carly was here in ZKO yesterday # Re: Carly was here in ZKO yesterday # Re: Carly was here in ZKO yesterday # Re: Carly was here in ZKO yesterday # Re: Carly was here in ZKO yesterday # Re: Carly was here in ZKO yesterday # Re: Carly was here in ZKO yesterday # Re: Carly was here in ZKO yesterday # Re: Carly was here in ZKO yesterday  Compaq/HP part numbers Re: Could linux become VMS?  Re: Could linux become VMS? P Re: ES-40 slower than AS-4100 was Re: Running Test and Production systems on difP Re: ES-40 slower than AS-4100 was Re: Running Test and Production systems on difP Re: ES-40 slower than AS-4100 was Re: Running Test and Production systems on dif Re: ES45 and VMS  7.2-1 ) Re: For all you hobbyists: IDE on SCSI !! ) Re: For all you hobbyists: IDE on SCSI !!  Re: Help tuning NISCS_MAX_PKTSZ  hobbyist (mini)merge= Re: How to put my VMS box on a BroadBand Connection (part II) = Re: How to put my VMS box on a BroadBand Connection (part II) = Re: How to put my VMS box on a BroadBand Connection (part II) $ Re: HP Alphaservers and Lan Consoles$ Re: HP Alphaservers and Lan Consoles$ Re: HP Alphaservers and Lan Consoles$ Re: HP Alphaservers and Lan Consoles* Re: just got this - OpenVMS faxing utility* Re: just got this - OpenVMS faxing utility* Re: just got this - OpenVMS faxing utility* Re: just got this - OpenVMS faxing utility* Re: just got this - OpenVMS faxing utility* Re: just got this - OpenVMS faxing utility3 Re: Library files as high performance file system ?  Re: low-end VMS & Re: Mark Gorham's Beer Bash in Reading& Re: Mark Gorham's Beer Bash in Reading& Re: Mark Gorham's Beer Bash in Reading& Re: Mark Gorham's Beer Bash in Reading, Mounting shadowset system disks across a SAN MOZILLA and CSWB Re: MOZILLA and CSWB Re: No new Alpha sales Re: No new Alpha sales Re: Open Letter to HP  Re: Open Letter to HP  Re: Open Letter to HP  Re: Open Letter to HP  Re: Open Letter to HP G Re: OpenVMS, Volume Desktop OS (Re: Mark Gorham's Beer Bash in Reading) G Re: OpenVMS, Volume Desktop OS (Re: Mark Gorham's Beer Bash in Reading) G Re: OpenVMS, Volume Desktop OS (Re: Mark Gorham's Beer Bash in Reading)  question - SEARCH util.  Re: question - SEARCH util.  Re: question - SEARCH util.  Re: question - SEARCH util.  RRD46 hardware problem ? Re: RRD46 hardware problem ? Re: RRD46 hardware problem ? RE: RRD46 hardware problem ? SAN shadowing question Re: Shadow sets efficiency Re: Shadow sets efficiency Re: Shadow sets efficiency Re: STARTUP stops after boot Re: STARTUP stops after boot$ Re: TCP socket communication queriesP Re: The Press and the IA-64 Port (was Re: Another analyst says VMS port won't be USB to parallel  Re: USB to parallel  Re: USB to parallel  Re: USB to parallel  Re: USB to parallel  Re: USB to parallel  Re: USB to parallel  VMS Monitoring a User  Re: VMS Monitoring a User  Re: VMS Monitoring a User  Re: VMS Monitoring a User  Re: VMS Monitoring a User  Re: VMS Monitoring a User  Re: VMS Monitoring a User  Re: VMS Monitoring a User  Re: VMS Monitoring a User  Re: VMS Monitoring a User  Re: VMS Monitoring a User  Re: VMS Monitoring a User  Re: xtoolkit error Re: xtoolkit error/ Re: [Q] 100 Mb networking options for Alpha 200   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 07 Jun 2002 11:09:04 +0200 : From: Karl Rohwedder <extern.karl.rohwedder@volkswagen.de>8 Subject: Re: ? VMS 7.3.1 releasse date: some experiences* Message-ID: <3D007830.40607@volkswagen.de>   Zoldric Caff wrote: 3 > Does anyone know when VMS 7.3.1 will be released. / > Will a field test version be made available ?  > 7 > At present, I am doing some research on SANS and VMS. F > Does anyone know where I can find more informaction on this subject. >  > Thanks	 > Zoldric  >   E I have just upgraded one of our testsysteme from V7.2-1 to E7.3-1 SDK % and noticed the following 'problems':    - documentation CDE 	o in the file [000000]index.html all references to the documentation L 	  specify /1462-ub11..., but the directory is named /1462_ub11 (underscore)   - upgrade itselfA 	o the upgrade aborts with some TDF-INVRULE and TFD-FAILED errors H 	  after deleting SYS$SYSTEM:SYS$TIMEZONE.DAT and reapplying the upgradeN 	  it asks ths usual timezone questions and continue. Perhaps it could be made 	  more robust in this regard I 	o we got an %LIBRARY-E-DELKEYERR, error deleting OTS$CVT_FLOAT_G_S from   IMAGELIB- 	  error and continued the upgrade explicitly    - associated products  	o GNVJ 		- the GNV$STARTUP.COM references a file BECOME.EXE, which does not exist     --    - mit freundlichen Gruessen | with best regards    Karl RohwedderB iT-Ingenieurteam     | Ellernbruch 11       | D-38112 BraunschweigA Telefon: 0531/515521 | Telefax: 0531/515531 | Mobil: 0172/5434843 H   E-Mail: rohwedder(at)decus.decus.de        | iT-IngTeam(at)t-online.de/           karl.rohwedder(at)it-ingenieurteam.de  DATEX-P: 4505018005::ROHWEDDER   ------------------------------   Date: 7 Jun 2002 04:21:53 -0700 % From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net> 8 Subject: Re: ? VMS 7.3.1 releasse date: some experiences) Message-ID: <adq50h0102n@drn.newsguy.com>   7 In article <3D007830.40607@volkswagen.de>, Karl says...  >  >Zoldric Caff wrote:4 >> Does anyone know when VMS 7.3.1 will be released.0 >> Will a field test version be made available ? >>  8 >> At present, I am doing some research on SANS and VMS.G >> Does anyone know where I can find more informaction on this subject.  >>  	 >> Thanks 
 >> Zoldric >>   > F >I have just upgraded one of our testsysteme from V7.2-1 to E7.3-1 SDK& >and noticed the following 'problems':  P It worries me that this release has not had the exposure to such a wide range ofF field testers as we have come to expect in recent years via the vmsnet
 newsgroup.   Hope we don't see consequences.  >- documentation CD F >	o in the file [000000]index.html all references to the documentationM >	  specify /1462-ub11..., but the directory is named /1462_ub11 (underscore)  >  >- upgrade itself B >	o the upgrade aborts with some TDF-INVRULE and TFD-FAILED errorsI >	  after deleting SYS$SYSTEM:SYS$TIMEZONE.DAT and reapplying the upgrade O >	  it asks ths usual timezone questions and continue. Perhaps it could be made  >	  more robust in this regardJ >	o we got an %LIBRARY-E-DELKEYERR, error deleting OTS$CVT_FLOAT_G_S from 	 >IMAGELIB . >	  error and continued the upgrade explicitly >  >- associated products >	o GNV K >		- the GNV$STARTUP.COM references a file BECOME.EXE, which does not exist  >  >  >--  > . >mit freundlichen Gruessen | with best regards >  >Karl Rohwedder C >iT-Ingenieurteam     | Ellernbruch 11       | D-38112 Braunschweig B >Telefon: 0531/515521 | Telefax: 0531/515531 | Mobil: 0172/5434843I >  E-Mail: rohwedder(at)decus.decus.de        | iT-IngTeam(at)t-online.de 0 >          karl.rohwedder(at)it-ingenieurteam.de >DATEX-P: 4505018005::ROHWEDDER  >    ------------------------------   Date: 7 Jun 2002 09:48:47 +0100 C From: vaxinf@chclu.chemie.uni-konstanz.de (Eberhard Heuser-Hofmann) = Subject: Re: A dvdwrite(r)-Program: save 4.3 GB on a DVD-R(W) - Message-ID: <3d00655f.0@news.uni-konstanz.de>   I In article <w6i7Z$JkH1J3@eisner.encompasserve.org>, Kilgallen@SpamCop.net  (Larry Kilgallen) writes: / |>In article <3cff1e60.0@news.uni-konstanz.de>, G |>vaxinf@chclu.chemie.uni-konstanz.de (Eberhard Heuser-Hofmann) writes:  |>J |>> I want to release my first version of my dvdwrite program for OpenVMS. |>> , |>> Get informations via the following page: |>> . |>> http://134.34.7.25/~dvdwrite/dvdwrite.html |>B |>Ok, looking at that I think I understand how I could write a 4GB |>ODS-2 volume on DVD. |>D |>But how would I read files back from that DVD onto VMS ?  VMS does! |>not have DVD support, does it ?  |>   Support?  F The DQDRIVER comes with the FREEWARE V5.0 CD. That means "no support".  $ But read the header of the dqdriver:  K /* Facility:                                                                 */K /*      IDE Disk Driver                                                      */K /*                                                                           */K /* Abstract:                                                                 */  I /*      This driver controls a standard IDE/ATA/EIDE r/w disk          */ J /*        or an ATAPI CD-/DVD-ROM drive.                                   */  @ You can mount a DVD written  with a Pioneer DVR-A103 DVD-Burner.5 The Pionner drive simply behaves like a  (big) CDROM.   B This works for all Alphastations with an IDE-Interface. There is aB command procedure in der dqdriver-directory that helps to activateF the dqdriver after the system is up. That means, that on some machinesE you cannot boot, but if OpenVMS is up, you can read (and write) DVDs.   7 If you have no IDE-Interface that's a different story.    = Either you need a DVD-drive with a 512-block-I/O jumper, then = you even can boot that DVD, or you must use a 2048=>512-block > converter environment that Glenn Everhardt kindly distributes.  ! I have tested two configurations:   E The Pioneer drive on a PWS 433 and on a DEC 3000-400 with a SCSI-IDE-  converter + the same DVR-drive.   D In order to check that everythings is OK I copied the content on the DVD-R(W)I back on a disk and compared it with the source. Finally the result was 0.  differences.   Eberard    ------------------------------   Date: 7 Jun 2002 10:03:26 +0100 C From: vaxinf@chclu.chemie.uni-konstanz.de (Eberhard Heuser-Hofmann) = Subject: Re: A dvdwrite(r)-Program: save 4.3 GB on a DVD-R(W) - Message-ID: <3d0068ce.0@news.uni-konstanz.de>   ; In article <3D0024A0.7E494BD6@fsi.net>, "David J. Dachtera"  <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> writes:  |>Larry Kilgallen wrote: |>> > |>> In article <3D001ADF.D514318@fsi.net>, "David J. Dachtera"! |><djesys.nospam@fsi.net> writes:  |>> > Larry Kilgallen wrote: |>> >>4 |>> >> In article <3cff1e60.0@news.uni-konstanz.de>,G |>vaxinf@chclu.chemie.uni-konstanz.de (Eberhard Heuser-Hofmann) writes:  |>> >>F |>> >> > I want to release my first version of my dvdwrite program for
 |>OpenVMS. |>> >> >1 |>> >> > Get informations via the following page:  |>> >> >3 |>> >> > http://134.34.7.25/~dvdwrite/dvdwrite.html  |>> >>G |>> >> Ok, looking at that I think I understand how I could write a 4GB  |>> >> ODS-2 volume on DVD.  |>> >>I |>> >> But how would I read files back from that DVD onto VMS ?  VMS does & |>> >> not have DVD support, does it ? |>> > H |>> > I think it might, in so far as it has CD-ROM support, it stands toE |>> > reason that ODS on DVD is reasonable to expect to work. I can't 	 |>believe G |>> > he'd post the recording stuff without being able to read what was  |>> > written. |>> I |>> For CDROM there are VMS drivers, but I don't know about that for DVD.  |>G |>I am not aware of any CD-ROM specific drivers other than DKDRIVER for B |>SCSI disks (mag. or optical) and DQDRIVER for IDE disks (mag. orD |>optical), and VMS support of ISO-9660 (for non-ODS media). Can you |>enlighten me?  |> |>--   |>David J. Dachtera  |>dba DJE Systems  |>http://www.djesys.com/ |>* |>Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page:! |>http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/  |>  C The dkdriver needs a drive that read/writes 512-byte blocks per I/O A and some additional features in the ROM part of the drive so that B the dkdriver gets reasonable answers form the drive when VMS comesB up. SCSI is a poorly defined standard. I'm sure Glenn Everhardt is able to tell you much more...   & The dqdriver supports two "protocols": ATAPI = CDROM/DVD  and < IDE= cheap PC-disks. The IDE support is poor: no DMA = slow.   eberhard   ------------------------------   Date: 7 Jun 2002 07:29:52 -0600 - From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) = Subject: Re: A dvdwrite(r)-Program: save 4.3 GB on a DVD-R(W) 3 Message-ID: <TeHShexrKZ42@eisner.encompasserve.org>   s In article <3d00655f.0@news.uni-konstanz.de>, vaxinf@chclu.chemie.uni-konstanz.de (Eberhard Heuser-Hofmann) writes:  > K > In article <w6i7Z$JkH1J3@eisner.encompasserve.org>, Kilgallen@SpamCop.net  > (Larry Kilgallen) writes:   F > |>But how would I read files back from that DVD onto VMS ?  VMS does# > |>not have DVD support, does it ?  > |> > 
 > Support? > H > The DQDRIVER comes with the FREEWARE V5.0 CD. That means "no support".  G That is the source.  But the compiled code is also part of VMS, right ?   & > But read the header of the dqdriver:  K > /*      This driver controls a standard IDE/ATA/EIDE r/w disk          */ L > /*        or an ATAPI CD-/DVD-ROM drive.                                     Good !  B > You can mount a DVD written  with a Pioneer DVR-A103 DVD-Burner.  B Yeah, the Pioneer web site does not seem to like secured browsers.  7 > The Pionner drive simply behaves like a  (big) CDROM.   " Understood, once the driver works.   > D > This works for all Alphastations with an IDE-Interface. There is aD > command procedure in der dqdriver-directory that helps to activateH > the dqdriver after the system is up. That means, that on some machinesG > you cannot boot, but if OpenVMS is up, you can read (and write) DVDs.  > 9 > If you have no IDE-Interface that's a different story.   > ? > Either you need a DVD-drive with a 512-block-I/O jumper, then    Please post if you find one.   ------------------------------   Date: 7 Jun 2002 15:55:24 +0100 C From: vaxinf@chclu.chemie.uni-konstanz.de (Eberhard Heuser-Hofmann) = Subject: Re: A dvdwrite(r)-Program: save 4.3 GB on a DVD-R(W) - Message-ID: <3d00bb4c.0@news.uni-konstanz.de>   I In article <TeHShexrKZ42@eisner.encompasserve.org>, Kilgallen@SpamCop.net  (Larry Kilgallen) writes: / |>In article <3d00655f.0@news.uni-konstanz.de>, G |>vaxinf@chclu.chemie.uni-konstanz.de (Eberhard Heuser-Hofmann) writes:  |>> 7 |>> In article <w6i7Z$JkH1J3@eisner.encompasserve.org>,  |>Kilgallen@SpamCop.net  |>> (Larry Kilgallen) writes:  |>H |>> |>But how would I read files back from that DVD onto VMS ?  VMS does% |>> |>not have DVD support, does it ?  |>> |> |>>  |>> Support? |>> J |>> The DQDRIVER comes with the FREEWARE V5.0 CD. That means "no support". |>I |>That is the source.  But the compiled code is also part of VMS, right ?  |>( |>> But read the header of the dqdriver: |>J |>> /*      This driver controls a standard IDE/ATA/EIDE r/w disk          |>*/K |>> /*        or an ATAPI CD-/DVD-ROM drive.                                 |>|> |>Good ! |>D |>> You can mount a DVD written  with a Pioneer DVR-A103 DVD-Burner. |>D |>Yeah, the Pioneer web site does not seem to like secured browsers. |>9 |>> The Pionner drive simply behaves like a  (big) CDROM.  |>$ |>Understood, once the driver works. |> |>> F |>> This works for all Alphastations with an IDE-Interface. There is aF |>> command procedure in der dqdriver-directory that helps to activateJ |>> the dqdriver after the system is up. That means, that on some machinesI |>> you cannot boot, but if OpenVMS is up, you can read (and write) DVDs.  |>> ; |>> If you have no IDE-Interface that's a different story.   |>> A |>> Either you need a DVD-drive with a 512-block-I/O jumper, then  |> |>Please post if you find one. |>  F I'm in contact with someone, who has done this. So be patient, please.   eberhard   ------------------------------   Date: 7 Jun 2002 09:02:51 -0600 - From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) = Subject: Re: A dvdwrite(r)-Program: save 4.3 GB on a DVD-R(W) 3 Message-ID: <jXT7wXlacvMe@eisner.encompasserve.org>s  s In article <3d00bb4c.0@news.uni-konstanz.de>, vaxinf@chclu.chemie.uni-konstanz.de (Eberhard Heuser-Hofmann) writes:)  = > |>> If you have no IDE-Interface that's a different story. w > |>> C > |>> Either you need a DVD-drive with a 512-block-I/O jumper, then. > |>  > |>Please post if you find one. > |> > H > I'm in contact with someone, who has done this. So be patient, please.  @ Don't worry about me.  I am quite patient.  I have lots of time.< Sitting around to change discs while backing up to CDROM :-)   ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 7 Jun 2002 10:42:11 +0100, From: "Rainer Giese" <waste.not@welcome.net>5 Subject: Re: AlphaServer 1000A Operator Control Panela5 Message-ID: <adprl3$1aepl$1@ID-138444.news.dfncis.de>t  9 "Mark E. Levy" <mlevy70@attbi.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrage9 news:evVL8.129881$ux5.180011@rwcrnsc51.ops.asp.att.net... ( > <dittman@dittman.net> wrote in message2 > news:dtSL8.8883$2n4.2453@nwrddc04.gnilink.net...= > > Should the operator control panel on an AlphaServer 1000Aa > > be backlit?K   The two of them we have, are.i   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 07 Jun 2002 11:37:01 +0100 ( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1>5 Subject: Re: AlphaServer 1000A Operator Control Panelm) Message-ID: <3D008CCD.6D38952B@127.0.0.1>    Rainer Giese wrote:o > ; > "Mark E. Levy" <mlevy70@attbi.com> schrieb im Newsbeitragn; > news:evVL8.129881$ux5.180011@rwcrnsc51.ops.asp.att.net...-* > > <dittman@dittman.net> wrote in message4 > > news:dtSL8.8883$2n4.2453@nwrddc04.gnilink.net...? > > > Should the operator control panel on an AlphaServer 1000Am > > > be backlit?d >  > The two of them we have, are.o   Perhaps the bulbs have blown.n   --  ( Regards, Nic Clews CSC Computer Sciences nclews at csc dot comp   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 07 Jun 2002 12:45:10 GMTa From: dittman@dittman.netv5 Subject: Re: AlphaServer 1000A Operator Control Panell4 Message-ID: <qV1M8.643$a11.363@nwrddc01.gnilink.net>  ) Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1> wrote:t : Rainer Giese wrote:i :> i< :> "Mark E. Levy" <mlevy70@attbi.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag< :> news:evVL8.129881$ux5.180011@rwcrnsc51.ops.asp.att.net...+ :> > <dittman@dittman.net> wrote in messager5 :> > news:dtSL8.8883$2n4.2453@nwrddc04.gnilink.net...'@ :> > > Should the operator control panel on an AlphaServer 1000A :> > > be backlit? :>    :> The two of them we have, are.   : Perhaps the bulbs have blown.t   I'll have to take a look.O --   Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net = Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/H   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 07 Jun 2002 12:52:16 GMT ( From: "Mark E. Levy" <mlevy70@attbi.com>5 Subject: Re: AlphaServer 1000A Operator Control Panel * Message-ID: <302M8.10422$pw3.78@sccrnsc03>  5 "Nic Clews" <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1> wrote in messageo# news:3D008CCD.6D38952B@127.0.0.1...R > Rainer Giese wrote:A > >t= > > "Mark E. Levy" <mlevy70@attbi.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag = > > news:evVL8.129881$ux5.180011@rwcrnsc51.ops.asp.att.net...R, > > > <dittman@dittman.net> wrote in message6 > > > news:dtSL8.8883$2n4.2453@nwrddc04.gnilink.net...A > > > > Should the operator control panel on an AlphaServer 1000Ah > > > > be backlit?  > >T! > > The two of them we have, are.  >p > Perhaps the bulbs have blown.u  K Not likely. More likely, DEC used some displays that were illuminated, somesJ not. Those that were would have used LEDs, not incandesant lamps. The LEDs4 would have outlasted the service life of the system.  	 Mark Levye SMAe   ------------------------------   Date: 7 JUN 2002 14:12:25 GMTe4 From: karcher@thuria.waisman.wisc.edu (Carl Karcher)5 Subject: Re: AlphaServer 1000A Operator Control PanelU5 Message-ID: <7JUN02.14122520@thuria.waisman.wisc.edu>U  1 In a previous article, dittman@dittman.net wrote:a  ; ->Should the operator control panel on an AlphaServer 1000A 
 ->be backlit?r  / Nope. Neither is the AS1200. The ES40 panel is.p   --G -- Carl Karcher, Waisman Computing Services, Waisman Center, UW-Madison-= --                      karcher.dontspamme@waisman.wisc.edu      ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 07 Jun 2002 03:50:08 -04003- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> , Subject: Re: Carly was here in ZKO yesterday, Message-ID: <3D0065AC.C6FE97B1@videotron.ca>   Robert Deininger wrote:fG > Stallard has no such expectations.  You have spent the past few weeks J > taking a single sentence out of context and stretching it to this absurd > statement you keep repeating.n  N The original statement had a full section of the Q&A devoted to migrating fromK VMS to HP-UX, which is far more than was devoted in the HP official roadmapi which was a single sentence.  I The current version of Stallard's memo contains 2 references (one the thetM mainline text, and one in the Q&A) which mentions that HP will help those who ) have decided to migrate from VMS to Unix.   ? Why does Stallard insist on keeping those statements in there ?u  + >  I don't think Scott wrote that sentence.   M Then marcello should be the one getting the heat. The document is authored by N both of them.  They are ultimately responsible for it. And if Stallard doesn'tL even read the text that is directly attributed to him (in the first sections5 where HE writes to us), then then guy is incompetent.h  Q Sorry, the buck stops here, Stallard is ultimately responsible for this document.l  B > By the way, did you e-mail him and ask him about this statement?  M If marcello and Gorham are unable to convince Stallard to remove all mentions-S of migration away from VMS, than nothing I say to Stallard will change his opinion.r  L > day of the merger.  VMS probably got little of his attention before mergerK > close, because he knew he didn't have to make any big decsions about VMS.rK > The integration teams decided early on that VMS would continue in the newe. > HP, because it is too profitable to discard.    N You are allowed your opinion. I disagree. Carly stated many times during the 8L months that she would focus on non-proprietary solutions, with the exceptionL of Tandem which provides a unique service. She went through great lengths toJ avoid mentioning VMS. Had the decision to keep VMS been made early on, whyN would she not have mentioned it ? She had no problems announcing that HP's VMS" equivalent was being killed (MPE).  M If VMS is so profitable, why would HP avoid mentioning it during a time whereoJ it desperatly neeed to convince shareholders that buying Compaq was a goodM deal ?  If HP really had intentions to keep VMS long term, wouldn't Carly hadeJ stated that HP would keep this profitable products and grow it to increase	 profits ?d  G Carly was aware that Tandem customers needed to be reassured and had nobN problems stating that Tandem would be kept during those 8 months. How come VMS+ customers couldn't get the same treatment ?i    F > Why would you expect Scott to bury himself in the details of the VMSL > business?  You do know that he has more responsibilities besides just VMS, > right?  I Ever heard of due diligence ? Carly and Curly made the major architectureSM decisions and then empowered the integration team to implement their vision. cK Carly and Curly avoided mentioning VMS, and in the official roadmap, it gotXG just one sentence of "we'll continue Compaq's plan, whatever that was".w  K Compaq killed alpha and its own compilers. Do you really know or trust what J Compaq's true intentions with regards to VMS were on that June-25 "plan of	 record" ?2  ; Tandem got its own division. Why couldn't VMS get its own ?g  I How come VMS was put into the "retiring products" division ? Shouldn't atXJ least HP have indicated that once VMS will be commercially running on IA64K that it would be moved into its own division, or perhaps the Tandem and VMS @ products would be merged into one "reliable systems" division ?   \ (since IA64 isn't considered high performance, you can't really call it "high performance").    N If, as you say, the decision was so simple, how come HP didn't provide its ownN plans for VMS and instead just played lip service to "Compaq's plan or record"E ? This does not give one the impression that HP intents to truly takerK onwership of the product. All it says is that HP accepts responsability forf! whatever commitments Compaq made.4    J > Let's see.  Stallard's staff put out a rather long document giving plans > for a bunch of product lines.   N This document was specifically targetted at VMS and Tru64. Not exactly a bunchL of products. And in that document, it isn't clear what HP intends to do with, tru64 on Alpha in terms of new development.     ' >  Stallard probably looked it over andeH > approved it in general terms.  He likely trusts his staff to the point5 > where he doesn't feel compelled to read every word.   N Since his staff comprises Marcello who is responsible for both products dealthL with in the "memo", then according to your own logic, Marcello is to be heldM responsible for allowing such wording. And if the "we expect VMS customers toaH migrate to HP-UX"  was so offensive that the document had to be covertlyJ changed, why the hell would it have been replaced with a "we'll help those  want to move from VMS to Unix" ?  K And in the latest revision, why would marcello not have insisted that theseaL paragraphs be removed and replaced with  "We will help customers migrate TO L vms and VMS will soon have many features to make porting to VMS easier" ????  N Oh and by the way, has "DII-COE" been seen in any official HP documents ??????L Or has that been dropped and will be honoured only for the few who signed it under compaq ?     > He has a generalJ > understanding of the VMS business, but has little direct experience with > the VMS customer base. r  N If his understanding of VMS customers is that they want to migrate from VMS toL UNIX, what does that say to what Stallard told his superiors when asked what should be done with VMS ?a    . > He doesn't know the secret code phrases likeD > "legacy", "migrate", or "affinity" and their unpleasant history inI > VMS-land.  He has a thousand other details to worry about as the merger 	 > closes.-  N Sorry, but finding ways to keep the Alpha customers would have been one of theM most important jobs in planning the product roadmap. The use of words such asrM "migrate from VMS to Unix" would have been immediatly flagged as a "no no" if ' they consulted anyone in the VMS group.   L Futhermore, in june of 2000, when marcello was able to convince Capellas andH friends not to kill VMS, Capellas and friends would have been told in noH uncertain terms that Compaq needs the profits generated by VMS and in noL uncertain terms that any programs such as "affinity" and asking customers toI migrate to Windows or Unix would result in a extremely high percentage ofr customer attrition.o  N When Curly undressed Compaq to let Carly see all its wares, he would have toldK her that Compaq tried to kill VMS but couldn't because it is too profitableeF and the customers need TLC otherwise they leave the company in droves.N Capellas was fully aware of this because he was involved in the discussions to kill VMS just a year before.  M Sorry, there is absolutely "we didn't know" excuse. They knew fully well whatnN was involved and I still maintain that the messages by Stallard were put thereJ on purpose.  They were toned down because they realised that the attrition rate would have been too high.    L Remember that Carly stated that  they expect 9% drop in revenus in ~some~ of the enterprise products.   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 07 Jun 2002 08:44:18 GMT 2 From: "Andrew Dodd" <Andrew.J.Dodd@HP.spamfreecom>, Subject: Re: Carly was here in ZKO yesterday1 Message-ID: <Cn_L8.2$pB1.127099@news.cpqcorp.net>d  F My reading, and I admit I may be looking through weird spectacles, was simply:-  J If a VMS customer makes a decision to move to UNIX, make sure they move to HP-UX.  L Compaq, and indeed Digital had exactly the same view. Make sure they move toK OSF/1 - I remember it well. It's a customer retention strategy and everyonevD has one. Do you think IBM would not work damn hard to keep an AS/400K customer by pitching AIX if one day the IT director announced "we're moving  everything to UNIX"?  I The bit that lacked emphasis, and if I'd written it it would have been in L block capitals, was "IF A CUSTOMER DECIDES". But I didn't write it, I do say that to my VMS customers.-  I With my HP hat firmly on only two things matter 1) Keep the customers youa. have and keep them happy 2) Win new customers.   --" Andrew Dodd - not speaking for HP. Pre-Sales Account Consultant HP Computer Ltde www.hp.com/uk/   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 07 Jun 2002 05:26:31 -0400f- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>e, Subject: Re: Carly was here in ZKO yesterday, Message-ID: <3D007C3C.6BE23ED7@videotron.ca>   Andrew Dodd wrote:K > The bit that lacked emphasis, and if I'd written it it would have been in N > block capitals, was "IF A CUSTOMER DECIDES". But I didn't write it, I do say > that to my VMS customers.   M No. It isn't a question of saying "If a customer decides to move to unix", iteN is a question of "we'll do our darndest to not only  convince our customers to) stay on VMS, but attract new ones to VMS.   L Does HP say thing like "if our PA-RISC customers decide to dump HP-UX, we'll4 try to move them to HP branded PCs running windows ?  J And the word "consolidation" is used as often as HP/Comapq have used it inK recent times, and one product is barealy spoken of, you have to wonder whatt! they really intend to do with it.s   ------------------------------   Date: 7 Jun 2002 07:37:38 -0600r- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) , Subject: Re: Carly was here in ZKO yesterday3 Message-ID: <JzT9wjt3RF7j@eisner.encompasserve.org>o  [ In article <3D0021B8.7CA326DA@fsi.net>, "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> writes:a > Robert Deininger wrote: 	 >> [snip]yF >> What information about VMS that isn't public do you think should be >> public?  Why? > ! > 1. How much money it brings in.   F    The naysayers here would jump all over that as coming from a source    they don't trust.   > F > 2. Actual plans for the future (as opposed to published "roadmaps").  @    A roadmap by any other name would smell sweeter?  Or is thereI    some magic name it could be published under?  Why would anyone expect >+    it to get more credit than the roadmaps?   A    The naysayers want to be naysayers.  Let the lying dogs sleep.t   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 07 Jun 2002 13:48:44 GMTi# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>a, Subject: Re: Carly was here in ZKO yesterdayJ Message-ID: <0R2M8.212761$ah_.180386@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>  = "Andrew Dodd" <Andrew.J.Dodd@HP.spamfreecom> wrote in messagem+ news:Cn_L8.2$pB1.127099@news.cpqcorp.net...s >oK > With my HP hat firmly on only two things matter 1) Keep the customers youi0 > have and keep them happy 2) Win new customers.     Andrew,*    Regarding your two points above:  K A) "Keep the customers you have and keep them happy" - Absolutely the rightrL sentiment, however....There has been much said by HP since May 7th, and muchJ unsaid during the period from September 2001 until today. You have read inI this ng many opinions from a wide variety of viewpoints, each of which isi legitimate in its own way.  J If you (meaning HP) can be totally objective for a moment, and not dismissC the viewpoint of those that disagree with you, lets examine a basiccG reality....when it comes to human nature there are those that complain,aK those that go along for the ride, and those that support a particular point,G of view. Generally speaking one finds that it is only a small number athJ either end of the spectrum that either complain or vociferously agree. ButL even within the two groups of those at agree and those that complain, only a/ tiny percentage of them ever open their mouths.d  L Let's play a little game - there are 411,000 VMS systems (Compaq numbers) inG production. Let's say that represents 100,000 customers. Compaq/HP havelG statements from probably less than 500 stating that they are completely E happy with the public statements of the past year regarding OpenVMS's0L future, and Compaq/HP regularly trot out statements from perhaps 50 of thoseF companies to show that Compaq/HP has customer support in what they areK doing. So we have perhaps 0.5% of the customers completely happy, and 0.05%IH willing to be quoted as being happy with the statements and direction ofJ Compaq/HP vis-a-vis OpenVMS. And by inference Compaq/HP wants the world toI believe that the rest of the customer base (except for the miscreants whotJ complain) feel exactly as the 50 reference customers do. Now let's supposeE that 500 companies are seriously concerned/unhappy with what has been.L said/not said/committed to/not committed to by Compaq/HP and those companiesH have written Compaq/HP to express themselves, and that of those, 50 haveF people who participate in this ng and express themselves publicly (theA equivalent of HP trotting out its 50 positive customer comments).e  H Thus between the two groups of customers above, we have a grand total ofA 1.00% of the customer base taking the time and trouble to expresswL themselves. What of the other 99%? Surely they all can't be totally in favorK of Compaq/HP's stance/commitment, nor can they all be assumed to be totally:H dissatisfied either. But there are large percentages who would fall intoK both those camps. Let's say that 10% fall into the 'I believe everything HP>J says' camp, and a further 10% fall into the polar opposite camp. So now weG have a grand total of 21% of the whole VMS customer base accounted for,8D leaving 79% 'uncommitted' strongly one way or the other. Or viewed aK different way, 79 ('uncommitted) + 10.5 (vocal/silent complainers)  = 89.5%hL of the customer base needs to be stroked to keep them happy (as you put it).  K If Carly can't come out with some positive statements and back that up withaK actions along the lines of what have been suggested in this ng by the vocalAJ complainers, HP runs a SERIOUS risk of simply losing a large percentage ofL VMS customers by attrition and belief that HP is not as committed to OpenVMSK as they would like to see their vendor be. And as has been pointed out manygH times, just because a customer decides to leave VMS, it is not automaticC that they will stay with HP for Unix or Windows or Linux, nor is itdI automatic that they will purchase HP hardware or services when they leaveeJ VMS. HP has more to lose by not keeping current VMS customers happy in allD respects than it does by not spending the money and effort to do so.    L B) Win new customers - Again an admirable thought....but that means activelyL soliciting their business, an that also means soliciting across all lines of	 business.   I If VMS is good enough to run at most of the world's stock exchanges, thenaD it's good enough to run general accounting for a car rental company.@ If VMS is good enough to run the fabs for 80% of the world's cpuH manufacturing, then it's good enough to run any one else's assembly line too.K If VMS is good enough to keep patient records in a hospital, then it's goodc3 enough to run HR apps for a department store chain.rF If VMS is good enough to keep e-commerce sites up 24x7, then it's good$ enough to run a chain of toy stores.I If VMS is good enough to keep the NSA happy, its good enough to be a filee  server for small businesses too.  L If HP doesn't try to market to a wide variety of customer types, rather thanE the few specific areas that it has said it will, VMS will become morecK marginalized as those few industries continue to consolidate, and if any of.6 those 'targeted' customers decide to migrate from VMS.    L What is it that you suppose a new non-VMS customer would want to see from HP6 before they agree to bet their business on OpenVMS....H   i) An iron-clad commitment from HP that VMS will be marketed/supported until the cows come home?nI  ii) That there is no 'supported until' date associated with VMS, just in D the same way that HP does not put a 'supported until' date on HP-UX?H iii) That HP will do everything in its considerable power to ensure thatH many of the 3rd party packages/tools that are not currently available onJ OpenVMS are made available on OpenVMS with timing and functional parity to' unix versions of those same apps/tools? I  iv) That HP will ultimately not make the customer and its employees look77 stupid for having agreed to use VMS in the first place?h   v) None of the above?   vi) All of the above?  	 Pick one.    ------------------------------   Date: 7 Jun 2002 07:21:53 -0700u) From: P.Young@unsw.EDU.AU (Patrick Young) , Subject: Re: Carly was here in ZKO yesterday= Message-ID: <55f85d77.0206070621.4af5a529@posting.google.com>h  l "Sue Skonetski" <susan.skonetski@compaq.com> wrote in message news:<TMOL8.27$vb1.940165@news.cpqcorp.net>...J > I know that this is going to start a lot of discussion but I think it is > worth it.    I think what it means is:   A (0) if cash coming in > cash going out by a _big_ margin then youtD     get marketed (and that can get creative, and far from the truth)  = (1) if cash coming in > cash going out by a small margin then C     we don't really care - you stay, no problem - who cares anyway.y  A (2) If cash coming in = cash going out then you "need looked at".   3 (3) If cash coming in < cash going out then you go.h   Not that hard.  A Sue was on the ball in an earlier post about software that shouldl be ported to OpenVMS.o  > It's all marketing - I guess OpenVMS needs more people to port? public domain software to it. The problem is we all don't have l= the time to do it. Once done, marketing points appear for thea marketing folks to use.I  	 Catch 22.a   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 07 Jun 2002 14:21:57 GMTt& From: Bob Willard <BobwBSGS@attbi.com>, Subject: Re: Carly was here in ZKO yesterday( Message-ID: <3D00C293.93D2056@attbi.com>  / Sue Skonetski wrote <and I ruthlessly snipped>:i > H > Without a doubt Carly is the best speaker I have ever heard and a veryC > classy lady.  ... She was straight forward and honest with us ...t  D Bill Clinton is the best speaker I have ever heard and a very classyD mannequin.  He always seemed straight forward and honest, even while, saying different things to different people.  E GQ Bob is a very good speaker and a very classy mannequin.  He always D seemed straight forward and honest, even while selling off what he'd committed to nurture.   > I like O'VMS and I hope Carly means and does well, but my mostA optimistic projection is merely for a shallow glide slope.  Sigh.  --   Cheers, Bob    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 07 Jun 2002 16:00:39 GMTt# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>l, Subject: Re: Carly was here in ZKO yesterdayJ Message-ID: <HM4M8.245482$t8_.177891@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>  6 "Patrick Young" <P.Young@unsw.EDU.AU> wrote in message7 news:55f85d77.0206070621.4af5a529@posting.google.com...rA >> It's all marketing - I guess OpenVMS needs more people to port @ > public domain software to it. The problem is we all don't have? > the time to do it. Once done, marketing points appear for thei > marketing folks to use.e >e > Catch 22.e    I Correct. There's wagonloads of PD software that could be ported if peoples had enough time.  K HP should take some of its staff and port of the top 100 PD apps that don'tn@ currently have a VMS port. It shows commitment, it increases theL availability of apps/tools, it helps negates statements from Sun/IBM, etc...? about app/tool availability on VMS. And it isn't overly costly.p  I What are we talking about here in terms of effort anyway? 10-20 man yearswI for the top 50 things? Some will be simple/not time consuming to do, somenB will be more difficult. Even if  HP said that they can't do it allK themselves but offered to participate in a meaningful way (people time) andTJ arranged to co-ordinate work schedules for different things on SourceForgeH or someplace similar, perhaps a bunch of us would get more involved too,@ knowing that all the work wasn't just on the back of one person.   ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 7 Jun 2002 11:20:01 -05001 From: "Dave Gudewicz" <david.gudewicz@abbott.com> , Subject: Re: Carly was here in ZKO yesterday1 Message-ID: <adqmi9$sjg$1@fizban.pprd.abbott.com>    JF,s  J When you wrote to Scott Stallard on this issue, what was his reply to you? You did write didn't you?d  H If you didn't write then........  but you are entitled to your opinions.   -- Dave...h  L Let me make the superstitions of a nation and I care not who makes its laws. -----Mark Twain   : "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message& news:3D0065AC.C6FE97B1@videotron.ca... > Robert Deininger wrote:lI > > Stallard has no such expectations.  You have spent the past few weekstL > > taking a single sentence out of context and stretching it to this absurd! > > statement you keep repeating.o > K > The original statement had a full section of the Q&A devoted to migratingo fromE > VMS to HP-UX, which is far more than was devoted in the HP officialA roadmap  > which was a single sentence. >tK > The current version of Stallard's memo contains 2 references (one the thewK > mainline text, and one in the Q&A) which mentions that HP will help thosee who + > have decided to migrate from VMS to Unix.  > A > Why does Stallard insist on keeping those statements in there ?  > - > >  I don't think Scott wrote that sentence.T > L > Then marcello should be the one getting the heat. The document is authored byH > both of them.  They are ultimately responsible for it. And if Stallard doesn'tsE > even read the text that is directly attributed to him (in the first  sections7 > where HE writes to us), then then guy is incompetent.b >nI > Sorry, the buck stops here, Stallard is ultimately responsible for thisf	 document.t >iD > > By the way, did you e-mail him and ask him about this statement? >dF > If marcello and Gorham are unable to convince Stallard to remove all mentionsL > of migration away from VMS, than nothing I say to Stallard will change his opinion. >aG > > day of the merger.  VMS probably got little of his attention beforeo mergerH > > close, because he knew he didn't have to make any big decsions about VMS.I > > The integration teams decided early on that VMS would continue in thea new 0 > > HP, because it is too profitable to discard. >a >fJ > You are allowed your opinion. I disagree. Carly stated many times during the 8dD > months that she would focus on non-proprietary solutions, with the	 exception K > of Tandem which provides a unique service. She went through great lengths  toL > avoid mentioning VMS. Had the decision to keep VMS been made early on, whyL > would she not have mentioned it ? She had no problems announcing that HP's VMSm$ > equivalent was being killed (MPE). >rI > If VMS is so profitable, why would HP avoid mentioning it during a timey wheresL > it desperatly neeed to convince shareholders that buying Compaq was a goodK > deal ?  If HP really had intentions to keep VMS long term, wouldn't Carlyr haddL > stated that HP would keep this profitable products and grow it to increase > profits ?h >aI > Carly was aware that Tandem customers needed to be reassured and had noeL > problems stating that Tandem would be kept during those 8 months. How come VMSa- > customers couldn't get the same treatment ?r >e >pH > > Why would you expect Scott to bury himself in the details of the VMSI > > business?  You do know that he has more responsibilities besides justt VMS,
 > > right? >rK > Ever heard of due diligence ? Carly and Curly made the major architecture-F > decisions and then empowered the integration team to implement their vision.oI > Carly and Curly avoided mentioning VMS, and in the official roadmap, itD got_I > just one sentence of "we'll continue Compaq's plan, whatever that was".i >tH > Compaq killed alpha and its own compilers. Do you really know or trust whatL > Compaq's true intentions with regards to VMS were on that June-25 "plan of > record" ?s > = > Tandem got its own division. Why couldn't VMS get its own ?a >sK > How come VMS was put into the "retiring products" division ? Shouldn't atoL > least HP have indicated that once VMS will be commercially running on IA64I > that it would be moved into its own division, or perhaps the Tandem and  VMSsA > products would be merged into one "reliable systems" division ?a >II > (since IA64 isn't considered high performance, you can't really call ito "high performance"). >f >lL > If, as you say, the decision was so simple, how come HP didn't provide its own H > plans for VMS and instead just played lip service to "Compaq's plan or record"sG > ? This does not give one the impression that HP intents to truly take-I > onwership of the product. All it says is that HP accepts responsability@ fort# > whatever commitments Compaq made.  >Z >yL > > Let's see.  Stallard's staff put out a rather long document giving plans! > > for a bunch of product lines.  >IJ > This document was specifically targetted at VMS and Tru64. Not exactly a bunch.I > of products. And in that document, it isn't clear what HP intends to don with- > tru64 on Alpha in terms of new development.e >  >x) > >  Stallard probably looked it over anddJ > > approved it in general terms.  He likely trusts his staff to the point7 > > where he doesn't feel compelled to read every word.o >sI > Since his staff comprises Marcello who is responsible for both productsn dealthI > with in the "memo", then according to your own logic, Marcello is to ben heldL > responsible for allowing such wording. And if the "we expect VMS customers toJ > migrate to HP-UX"  was so offensive that the document had to be covertlyL > changed, why the hell would it have been replaced with a "we'll help those" > want to move from VMS to Unix" ? >eG > And in the latest revision, why would marcello not have insisted that8 theseDJ > paragraphs be removed and replaced with  "We will help customers migrate TOI > vms and VMS will soon have many features to make porting to VMS easier"o ???? >kI > Oh and by the way, has "DII-COE" been seen in any official HP documentsT ??????K > Or has that been dropped and will be honoured only for the few who signeds it > under compaq ? >n >o > > He has a generalL > > understanding of the VMS business, but has little direct experience with > > the VMS customer base. >iI > If his understanding of VMS customers is that they want to migrate fromt VMS toI > UNIX, what does that say to what Stallard told his superiors when asked  what > should be done with VMS ?- >- >-0 > > He doesn't know the secret code phrases likeF > > "legacy", "migrate", or "affinity" and their unpleasant history inK > > VMS-land.  He has a thousand other details to worry about as the mergerg > > closes.A >eL > Sorry, but finding ways to keep the Alpha customers would have been one of theeL > most important jobs in planning the product roadmap. The use of words such asL > "migrate from VMS to Unix" would have been immediatly flagged as a "no no" if) > they consulted anyone in the VMS group." >pJ > Futhermore, in june of 2000, when marcello was able to convince Capellas andhJ > friends not to kill VMS, Capellas and friends would have been told in noJ > uncertain terms that Compaq needs the profits generated by VMS and in noK > uncertain terms that any programs such as "affinity" and asking customersi toK > migrate to Windows or Unix would result in a extremely high percentage ofn > customer attrition.n >fK > When Curly undressed Compaq to let Carly see all its wares, he would haves toldB > her that Compaq tried to kill VMS but couldn't because it is too
 profitableH > and the customers need TLC otherwise they leave the company in droves.A > Capellas was fully aware of this because he was involved in them discussions to > kill VMS just a year before. >vJ > Sorry, there is absolutely "we didn't know" excuse. They knew fully well whatJ > was involved and I still maintain that the messages by Stallard were put there4L > on purpose.  They were toned down because they realised that the attrition  > rate would have been too high. >tK > Remember that Carly stated that  they expect 9% drop in revenus in ~some~  of > the enterprise products.   ------------------------------   Date: 7 Jun 2002 09:38:25 -0700t( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski), Subject: Re: Carly was here in ZKO yesterday= Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0206070838.2d1bc998@posting.google.com>   k "Andrew Dodd" <Andrew.J.Dodd@HP.spamfreecom> wrote in message news:<Cn_L8.2$pB1.127099@news.cpqcorp.net>...fH > My reading, and I admit I may be looking through weird spectacles, was
 > simply:- > L > If a VMS customer makes a decision to move to UNIX, make sure they move to > HP-UX. >   F why would a vms customer ever want to move to unix, except for reasonsG of stupidity?  You can port and run almost anything on vms that you cannD on unix, and with real security, clustering, and the fastest jvm ...   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 07 Jun 2002 16:46:23 GMTa* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>, Subject: Re: Carly was here in ZKO yesterday@ Message-ID: <zr5M8.21165$Qg.1785073@bin6.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>  : "Bob Koehler" <koehler@encompasserve.org> wrote in message- news:JzT9wjt3RF7j@eisner.encompasserve.org...h= > In article <3D0021B8.7CA326DA@fsi.net>, "David J. Dachtera"l <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> writes:/ > > Robert Deininger wrote:b > >> [snip]bH > >> What information about VMS that isn't public do you think should be > >> public?  Why? > >m# > > 1. How much money it brings in.' >eH >    The naysayers here would jump all over that as coming from a source >    they don't trust.  K Perhaps not.  If the numbers are impressive, then they'll more than justifynF demands for more aggressive VMS marketing and development.  If they'reJ dismal, they will underscore the damage done last year (since we *do* haveA numbers from two years ago) and underscore the need to repair it.t  G And most importantly, such a move would be the beginning of the kind ofp( dialogue that has been so sadly lacking.   ...   ( >    The naysayers want to be naysayers.  L Actually, not.  That's like saying that people like you *want* to be stupid.J In both cases, it seems rather to be what people feel is called for by the" situation, not what they'd prefer.   >  Let the lying dogs sleep.  I No.  The lying dogs should be shot, or at least evicted from positions oft any authority.   - bill   ------------------------------  + Date: Fri, 07 Jun 2002 18:50:02 +0100 (MET)w9 From: Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>b, Subject: Re: Carly was here in ZKO yesterday; Message-ID: <01KINQUDHMRU96WQWC@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>t  H > why would a vms customer ever want to move to unix, except for reasonsI > of stupidity?  You can port and run almost anything on vms that you canaF > on unix, and with real security, clustering, and the fastest jvm ...  G "You can port" can be a lot of work.  Even assuming you have access to nI the source code, you have to organise things so that the VMS adaptations 0E are incorporated into the main source pool.  I think VAXman ran into nB this problem when trying to get a common unix app to run on VMS.  > Whether or not this is an issue depends on what you are doing.  E Cost.  VMS might be more expensive for some customers, especially if tE they don't need (or think they need) some of the advantages of VMS.  SG Also, it is often perceived cost, not true cost, which is the deciding v factor.a  G Support.  Some people rely, or have to rely, on vendor support.  There oI was a time when the owner of VMS actively tried to get its own customers SH to move off VMS---with the result that many of those who did also moved I to another vendor.  Some people fear that these times are still with us, ME or might come again, thus want to move somewhere where there is more o
 stability.  H I'm not saying that any of these reasons is correct---in any case, YMMV H depending on the situation.  But there ARE reasons other than stupidity.  I Oh yeah---some folks might have been led to believe that ALPHA will live uE on in Itanium, and were so disappointed upon learning the truth that PI they had a nervous breakdown and made an impulsive decision to move away hH from VMS completely.  :-)  :-)  :-)  :-)  :-)  :-)  :-)  :-)  :-)  :-)     ------------------------------  * Date: Fri, 7 Jun 2002 17:18:56 +0000 (UTC) From: david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk, Subject: Re: Carly was here in ZKO yesterday+ Message-ID: <adqpu0$9k6$1@aquila.mdx.ac.uk>d  h In article <d7791aa1.0206070838.2d1bc998@posting.google.com>, bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski) writes:l >"Andrew Dodd" <Andrew.J.Dodd@HP.spamfreecom> wrote in message news:<Cn_L8.2$pB1.127099@news.cpqcorp.net>...I >> My reading, and I admit I may be looking through weird spectacles, was5 >> simply:-1 >> aM >> If a VMS customer makes a decision to move to UNIX, make sure they move toi	 >> HP-UX.e >> M >.G >why would a vms customer ever want to move to unix, except for reasonsaH >of stupidity?  You can port and run almost anything on vms that you canE >on unix, and with real security, clustering, and the fastest jvm ...   I You may be able to port anything you want to VMS but that doesn't help if 8 the ISV doesn't support the application you need on VMS.G I know of very very few ISVs who will let you have the source to their y. proprietary apps and let you port it yourself.      
 David Webb VMS and Unix team leader CCSS Middlesex University   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 07 Jun 2002 18:05:29 +0100fU From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <andrew_nospam.harrison_remove_this@sun#.com>s, Subject: Re: Carly was here in ZKO yesterday0 Message-ID: <adqpkh$9sr$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   Bob Ceculski wrote:a  m > "Andrew Dodd" <Andrew.J.Dodd@HP.spamfreecom> wrote in message news:<Cn_L8.2$pB1.127099@news.cpqcorp.net>...  > H >>My reading, and I admit I may be looking through weird spectacles, was
 >>simply:- >>L >>If a VMS customer makes a decision to move to UNIX, make sure they move to >>HP-UX. >> >> > H > why would a vms customer ever want to move to unix, except for reasonsI > of stupidity?  You can port and run almost anything on vms that you cansF > on unix, and with real security, clustering, and the fastest jvm ...    @ Where on earth did you get the idea that OpenVMS has the fastest> JVM. There are no published Java benchmarks that show this and= since the OpenVMS JVM is based on the Tru64 one, which is nota> the fastest JVM it is a claim that is unlikely to be fufilled.   Regardsd Andrew Harrisonr   ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 7 Jun 2002 12:31:44 +0100* From: Andrew Robinson <arobinson@hspg.com> Subject: Compaq/HP part numberseM Message-ID: <CDA4BAD1E10ED41181AC00508B6051D3C3E79B@grumpy.internal.hspg.com>M  
 Simple query,m  L I'm sitting sorting out maintenance contracts, and as Compaq/HP have changedG the description/option numbers again, does anyone have a website / pageiJ where I can feed in part numbers / option numbers and find out what kit it is?2J Just before you say, I did try using last years, which has sorted a number@ but not all queries, as Compaq/HP have 'streamlined' the format.   Thank you in advance   Andrew Robinson    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 07 Jun 2002 10:00:07 +0200a' From: Brass Christof <welcome@spam.not> $ Subject: Re: Could linux become VMS?( Message-ID: <3D006807.249658E3@spam.not>   "Zane H. Healy" wrote: > - > Osmo Kujala <kujala@tukki.cc.jyu.fi> wrote:aE > > If I recall right, the story was that Linus was not happy with PCpL > > OS:s so he decided to make one of his own. Why he didn't start with someM > > of the BSD-variants, I don't know, but maybe it was more fun to do Linux.eH > > Apparently he wasn't planning to do OS wich would conquer the world. > N > IIRC, basically he had the same problem a lot of us did at the time, PC OS'sN > sucked, and UNIX for the PC cost big $$$'s.  He got Minix, but quickly foundM > it to limiting and started writing his own.  Back in the early days none ofeB > us really expected Linux to be much more than a interesting toy. > I > > I see Linux very much like Free-, Net- or xxxBSD but for some strangecL > > reasons Linux became a "brand" by accident. (Maybe not so strange. ThereK > > was a need for Linux-like and Linux was as name different from *BSD...):K > > Lets hope great success for Linux! It's the only one which may threatentG > > The Ugly Empire (meaning MS, I'm bad in history. Was that name useds
 > > before?).o > M > Personally I think that the reason why Linux came out ahead of the BSD's isiE > pretty simple.  In January of '92 it was possible to put together a M > functional x86-based Linux system. It wasn't easy, and until about February<M > you didn't even have login's unless you added that in yourself (instead younI > were automatically root).  By the time 386BSD 0.1 was released (after a N > lengthy series of articles in Dr. Dobb's), Linux had progressed to the pointJ > where it had basic networking and very limited X-Windows support.  Also,M > during this time frame BSD as a whole was on a rather shakey footing thanksmL > to the legal battle with AT&T.  It all amounts to Linux having had a majorJ > jump on the various BSD's, and the biggest advantage they had over Linux2 > (better networking) has dwindled over the years. > L > I like OS's, and have a wide range of experience with them, including someL > very obscure ones such as GCOS-8.  I ran Linux before I ever touched a VMSG > system.  Out of all of these OS's my favorites are OpenVMS and Mac OS K > classic, I can't stand Mac OS X.  OpenVMS is rock solid and it just makeseK > sense (as for the Mac, I like it because I don't waste time tweaking it).A >  >                         Zane  G Thanks for clarifying. Somebody who started with Linux and switched to hE FreeBSD told me that Linus could have joined the *BSD development. I bE understand now better why he probably may not have joined. Anyway, I tE regard it as a pitty to waste that many hours of work programming in nG a chaotic way, using a totally useless PL and producing a result which e, is not technical interesting in any respect.  I I fully agree with your rating about professional OSs. If you don't want mE to waste time VMS and MacOS are the way to go. I don't have personal lF experience with MacOS X but I soon will hopefully. Unfortunately even G most shops don't think about efficiency and prefer to save a few bucks hE in the first place ignoring that they pay them later fiddling around.o   -- l7 moc dot slupofni at ssarb - please reverse the sequenceu   ------------------------------   Date: 7 Jun 2002 07:45:06 -0600o- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)v$ Subject: Re: Could linux become VMS?3 Message-ID: <5is0qy0q34Dd@eisner.encompasserve.org>   E In article <3CFFF437.CC11DD6@127.0.0.1>, nic <junk@127.0.0.1> writes:n > C > No it isn't yet. It doesn't have the capability of taking totallybF > incomprehensible and illogical case sensitive command structures :-)  G    Sure it is.  I've had the Unice csh, Perl, Tkl, and the POSIX shell hI    (Korn shell subset) on various VMS systems.  DEC had DECShell (Bourne  B    shell) but don't look around for too many people who bought it.  F    I suppose COE may need a shell game of its own someday, but for now9    it looks like the work is mostly in RMS and the C-RTL.r   ------------------------------  * Date: Fri, 7 Jun 2002 08:30:20 -0700 (PDT). From: Fabio Cardoso <fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br>Y Subject: Re: ES-40 slower than AS-4100 was Re: Running Test and Production systems on diff@ Message-ID: <20020607153020.56031.qmail@web20204.mail.yahoo.com>   Paul  , The tests were based in comparisons between 3 the production system (AS-4100) and the new machinei ES-40.4 The development people tested some queries and Cobol1 programs. The performance was slower in the ES-40i0 than the AS-4100. The AS-4100 was with 300 users online. 2 The ES-40 was just with the developm team. The RDB4 database was in the EMC discs... before the database4 was installed in the local disks (36 GB and Symbions 895 controller) without cache.   RegardsV   FC    1 --- Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com> wrote:g2 > Fabio Cardoso <fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br> writes: > 0 > > We are trying to discover why our ES-40 with > OpenVMS 7.2-1h1 /n4 > > Oracle RDB 7.0-31 and LP-8000 connected to a EMC > storage (Fibre3 > > Channel) with zero users is slower than the oldi > machine AS-4100 with* > > OpenVMS 7.2-1H1 and Oracle RDB 7.0-31. > 4 > What do you mean by `zero users' and `slower'? How > did you do whath, > ever you did to determine that it is slow? >  > -- a0 > Paul Repacholi                               1 > Crescent Rd.,o. > +61 (08) 9257-1001                           > Kalamunda.3 >                                              West  > Australia 60760 > Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.2 > EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has > been, always will be.t     =====  ========================== Fbio dos Santos Cardoso OpenVMS System Manager Rio de Janeiro - Brazilm fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br ==========================  2 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!?0 Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.come   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 07 Jun 2002 15:35:20 +0100 U From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <andrew_nospam.harrison_remove_this@sun#.com>tY Subject: Re: ES-40 slower than AS-4100 was Re: Running Test and Production systems on dif 0 Message-ID: <adqgr0$796$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>  ( Are the EMC's the same. Cache sizes etc.  4 What physical storage are the EMC's using and how is it configured in each case ?  7 EMC support a number of differant size and speed drivese5 and for example your 4100 could be using 73 GB 10,000d5 RPM drives while the ES40 could be using 183 GB 7,200l5 RPM drives which are newer and which EMC tend to sellt" if you buy on a cost per GB basis.  6 This would give you slower drives and fewer of them on	 the ES40.8  7 Its also important to understand how the EMC drives arel7 configured. The LUN's that are presented to the serverse8 are configured using bits of physical drives hanging off8 the back side of the EMC, you may have totally different configs on each system.   5 One may have other servers sharing access to the samet4 physical drive while the other does not, or they all8 may share access but one shares with a non I/O intensive app and the other does not.c  4 I would not get too hung up about the differences in2 FC and SCSI (I assume you mean USCSI) we find that5 in practice there isn't that much difference in totall6 throughput across both when you are using EMC's as the: back-end storage. In fact FC can make things worse because9 if you have a switch yuo are able to connect more serverse! to the EMC hence more contention.a   Regards  Andrew Harrisond   Fabio Cardoso wrote:   > Below my configurations: > 	 > AS-4100f >  > 4 x 5/600e > 6 GB > SCSI KZPBA -> EMCa > Standalone server 0 > Sysgen parameters ok. Autogened and checked by > Compaq .BR SE. > 3 > EMC configuration: KZPBA connected direct do the n! > EMC SCSI port. 10 disks x 9,1GBf >  >  > ES-40d >  > 4 x 6/833S > 12 GB  > KZPGA -> EMC > Standalone0 > Sysgen parameters OK. Autogened and checked by > Compaq .BR SE. >  > 4 > EMC configuration: KZPGA connected to a Connectrix3 > FC switch in  specif port just for OVMS machines.e% > 19 x 9,1 GB disks (mounted just 15)m > - > PS: I am not sure about the zoning/blockingu+ > factor. This is configured by EMC people.u >  >  > - > OBS: The ES-40 was first installed with thet1 > internal disks (2 symbios 895 each of them withC# > 3disks x 36 GB = total 6 x 36 GB)s7 > The database was in one specific controller (PKB) andb5 > the applications in other (PKA). We migrated to theT > EMCr6 > after this first installation, had a good improvment > in7 > some process,but other still slower than the AS-4100.  > 6 > Other consideration. The programs were developed in  > Cobol 2.4. >  >  > 	 > Regardsy >  > FC   > 5 > --- David Beatty <David.Beatty@qwertysasasdfgh.com>s > wrote: > 3 >>All other things being equal, you should get muchd >>better CPU- >>throughput on the ES40 vs. the 4100, so ...v >>" >>    1.  How much memory in each?0 >>    2.  Number and type or processors in each?1 >>    3.  Type of FibreChannel connector in each?-  >>    4.  Cluster or standalone?* >>    5.  Comparison of SYSGEN parameters?3 >>    6.  Zoning or blocking factor issues from then >>EMC? >> >>David R. Beatty7 >>0 >>On Thu, 6 Jun 2002 09:34:44 -0700 (PDT), Fabio	 >>CardosoA# >><fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br> wrote:  >> >> >>>Good Luck >>>2/ >>>We are trying to discover why our ES-40 withd2 >>>OpenVMS 7.2-1h1 / Oracle RDB 7.0-31 and LP-80003 >>>connected to a EMC storage  (Fibre Channel) witht4 >>>zero users is slower than the old machine AS-4100. >>>with OpenVMS 7.2-1H1 and Oracle RDB 7.0-31. >>> 2 >>>The last 30 days were test days... our ES-40 is/ >>>not working fine  as we expected under OVMS.,0 >>>We are planning to consolidadte 20 old VAX/AS >>>m	 >>servers- >>5 >>>in 4 ES-40. The first one (mine) was the first one26 >>>to be installed. No sucess. Compaq  and Oracle .BR 4 >>>are researching here but until now we dont have a2 >>>solution. If someone here as a ES-40 / ORDB 7.0" >>>configuration please email me ! >>>o >>>r
 >>>Regards >>>e >>>FC / >>>--- Tom Williams <twilliams@gscc.com> wrote:e >>>04 >>>>We're looking into migrating our environments to >>>>ES40s, and are2 >>>>planning on having each box contain two Galaxy >>>>instances: one5 >>>>production, one test. Each instance will have its> >>>>own sets of disks,2 >>>>separate UAFs, etc. Assuming the instances are >>>> >>seto >> >>>>up correctly, is0 >>>>there anything that might happen on the test >>>> >>system >> >>>>(hardware or. >>>>software) that could affect the production >>>>
 >>system?  >> >>>>I realize I'mo4 >>>>being vague, but I don't feel comfortable having >>>>production in thei5 >>>>same cabinet as test.  All comments, pro and con,s >>>>are welcome. >>>> >>>>Thanks in advancea >>>> >>>>Tom Williams >>>> >>>n >>>===== >>>==========================e >>>Fbio dos Santos Cardoso  >>>OpenVMS System Managero >>>Rio de Janeiro - Brazil >>>fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br  >>>==========================u >>> 5 >>>__________________________________________________s >>>Do You Yahoo!? 3 >>>Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cupg  >>>http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com >>>u >  >  > =====  > ========================== > Fbio dos Santos Cardoso > OpenVMS System Manager > Rio de Janeiro - Brazilu > fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br > ========================== > 4 > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!?2 > Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup > http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.comu >    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 07 Jun 2002 17:39:35 +0200p9 From: Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com>,Y Subject: Re: ES-40 slower than AS-4100 was Re: Running Test and Production systems on dif ' Message-ID: <3D00D3B7.6421FE09@aaa.com>o  @ Well, if you run Rdb, you have a perfect tool ($ RMU /SHOW STAT): that will tell you EVERYTHING that's different between the# two systems from an Rdb standpoint.w   What are you seeing less of ?p I/O's per sec ? 	 GB hits ?r	 LB hits ?s
 More stalls ?d  > It's almost impossible to say anything about your observations1 with the amount of information you have supplied.o  ? There must be something going on that should be possible to seef in MONITOR or RMU/SHO STAT !   Jan-Erik Sderholm.i   Fabio Cardoso wrote: >  > Paul > - > The tests were based in comparisons betweene5 > the production system (AS-4100) and the new machineg > ES-40.6 > The development people tested some queries and Cobol3 > programs. The performance was slower in the ES-40o2 > than the AS-4100. The AS-4100 was with 300 users	 > online.c4 > The ES-40 was just with the developm team. The RDB6 > database was in the EMC discs... before the database6 > was installed in the local disks (36 GB and Symbions  > 895 controller) without cache. > 	 > Regardsp >  > FC   ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 7 Jun 2002 12:51:27 -05001 From: "Dave Gudewicz" <david.gudewicz@abbott.com>n  Subject: Re: ES45 and VMS  7.2-10 Message-ID: <adqrtq$7n$1@fizban.pprd.abbott.com>  K Thumbing through the 7.2-2 release notes I find no reference to ES45.  EV67 1 and EV68 support on GS systems, but not on ES....r   -- Dave...7  L Let me make the superstitions of a nation and I care not who makes its laws. -----Mark Twain   B "David Beatty" <David.Beatty@qwertysasasdfgh.com> wrote in message, news:1Vz=PEsZqJ+bbi5JgAhsYfpzcGv+@4ax.com... >n >     Interesting ...) >iA >     My Compaq rep. swears up-and-down that an ES45 will supporteF > V7.2-2.  However, the image you are referring to is not on my V7.2-2F > system, nor is it on the V7.2-2 CD.  It seems that the documentation1 > on the Compaq website is correct and he is not.I >m% >     Not that it's a big suprise ...M >. > David R. Beattyc >oG > On Wed, 05 Jun 2002 21:45:01 -0400, rdeininger@mindspring.com (Roberta > Deininger) wrote:  >t@ > >In article <3CFD266F.34F1B8C8@pressenter.com>, Lyndon Bartels# > ><lbartels@pressenter.com> wrote:  > >e# > >>Just a hypothetical question...S > >> > >>H > >>My sources say that to run an ES45, I need VMS v7.3... Not a problem= > >>there... I would never dream of recommending otherwise...o > >> > >>J > >>But in case somebody asks, "what would happen if we tried to run it on > >>v7.2-1?" > > 0 > >Does your pre-V7.3 system disk have the image5 > >   SYS$LOADABLE_IMAGES:SYS$CPU_ROUTINES_2608.EXE ?n > >H > >I didn't think so.c > >d! > >It won't boot an ES45.  Sorry.# > >sF > >Any ES45 shipped with VMS has at least V7.3 plus the minimum set ofJ > >patches to run the platform.  So it should boot with the disk that came > >with it, no problems. > > G > >If you want to boot it as a satellite of another node, the boot node  needsdI > >to be running at least V7.3 to support the ES45, even if the boot nodeVL > >itself doesn't need the new bits.  Sometimes it is necessary to run a newA > >system this way, though in the case of the ES45, you'll take a  significantaA > >performance hit for just about any boot system I can think of.t > >oF > >The core chipset in the ES45 is new, and the support code was firstH > >shipped in V7.3.  This isn't a minor cosmetic change.  It's major new	 > >stuff.e >a   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 07 Jun 2002 10:10:47 +0200s From: Dirk Munk <munk@home.nl>2 Subject: Re: For all you hobbyists: IDE on SCSI !!& Message-ID: <3D006A87.8070203@home.nl>  K I haven't been running it for long. Before I bought the disk, I borrowed a 14 Seagate Barracuda IV IDE disk, and did some testing.M I tried backup, the bad block utility etc. and everything worked fine. Acard @< also produce SCSI adapters, so I suppose they know SCSI :-).  L I see no reason why you can't shadow two disks, VMS thinks it sees two SCSI P disks. I suppose you will need some kind of cabinet to install the disks. Check O the Acard site for other versions of this adapter, for instance types that you d can use in 5,25" disk trays.  5 They even have 160 MB/sec. LVD SCSI/IDE bridges now !a  P There is one thing I forgot to mention. These bridges have upgradable firmware, Q and for disks > 75 GB you need the latest firmware, You can install it yourself, tP but you will need a Windooz PC with (Wide) SCSI for that. If you don't have it, 1 ask your supplier to install the latest version !    Regards,   Dirk     Zane H. Healy wrote:! > Dirk Munk <munk@home.nl> wrote:w > Q >>This is a 80 GB Western Digital WD 800JB IDE disk connected to the SCSI bus of yS >>my PWS. I used a Acard AEC-7720UW SCSI-IDE bridge to connect it. It works great, o> >>and in total this is a lot cheaper then a 80 GB SCSI disk !! >  > # >>You can find more information at:a >>http://www.acard.com >  > ( >>I'll be happy to answer any questions. >  > N > Out of curiousity how long have you been running this?  This is exactly the K > kind of thing I could use.  Right now I'm running with a 9GB system diskslM > and 3 4GB drives in a BA350.  Any idea's if it would have any problems witheN > volume shadowing?  With a disk that size, I'd just as soon have it shadowed. > 	 > 			Zane    ------------------------------   Date: 7 Jun 2002 13:25:35 GMTk1 From: bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) 2 Subject: Re: For all you hobbyists: IDE on SCSI !!, Message-ID: <adqc8f$30it$1@info.cs.uofs.edu>  E Now, if someone would just come up with a way to hook those IDE disks I up to my KDA-50/UDA-50 and UD33 controllers I'd really be in heaven.  :-)i   bill   -- lJ Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   o   ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 7 Jun 2002 11:12:46 +0100* From: "Richard Brodie" <R.Brodie@rl.ac.uk>( Subject: Re: Help tuning NISCS_MAX_PKTSZ, Message-ID: <adq0ua$19js@newton.cc.rl.ac.uk>  K "nic" <junk@127.0.0.1> wrote in message news:3CFFF177.14C90AE0@127.0.0.1...m > Mark Berryman wrote:  J > I wasn't aware, I've not delved into 100 Mb ethernet so I appreciate theI > correction, I'd assumed FDDI at 100 gave rise to the larger frames, but  > not.  G No. The packet size for ethernet is a bit of an anachronism, and partlyeE driven by the cost of memory in the early 80's. FDDI came along a bitL8 later and picked a different (largely arbitrary) number.  $ > What is the position for Gigabit ?  K The problem with varying the packet size is that a transparent bridge can't S do anything with a packet too large to forward. It just drops it in the bit bucket. O There isn't an awful lot left of the original Ethernet in Gigabit, and changing H the packet size incompatibly was a step too far for the 802.3 committee.F However, a lot of manufacturers support sending 'jumbograms' of largerI size as an option. You can do this with SCS traffic (the 7.2 new featuresf guide has details).n  H > I deliberately avoided mentioning tuning lock remastering, however I'mG > led to believe that locks are now (7.3+) passed in batches when beingaE > remastered, which suggests to me multiple locks in a single packet.   K Yes. There are notes at: http://vmsone.com/dfwdays/Presentations/Gordon.PPT    ------------------------------  + Date: Fri, 07 Jun 2002 18:31:24 +0100 (MET) 9 From: Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>n Subject: hobbyist (mini)mergel; Message-ID: <01KINQCE35W496WQWC@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>r  D After having successfully shadowed some disks (including the system H disk) in my hobbyist system, I now plan to distribute the members acrossA nodes so that I am guarded against not only disk/controller/mediaaE failure but also node failure.  (Of course, relevant applications are0F cluster-aware, so even a system failure shouldn't bother me too much.)  E I'm thus reading up on host-based volume shadowing.  Am I correct in  E assuming that (mini)merge is not relevant unless there is a non-MSCP dI path to more than one machine?  (Not that I NEED a non-MSCP path to more  H than one machine; I just want to make sure that I don't have to read up 	 on this.).   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 07 Jun 2002 11:28:29 +0200 " From: DTL <Didier.Morandi@Free.fr>F Subject: Re: How to put my VMS box on a BroadBand Connection (part II)& Message-ID: <3D007CBD.4070607@Free.fr>  9 DTL02::DTL up and running... but not the iMac anymore :-(o   D.   ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 7 Jun 2002 11:05:34 -0400% From: "John Vottero" <John@mvpsi.com>mF Subject: Re: How to put my VMS box on a BroadBand Connection (part II)/ Message-ID: <ug1itvhqse7711@news.supernews.com>n  L What did you change to get the Alpha working?  If you didn't change anythingI then the problem may be the EICON router.  There are products that try tohL limit you to a single computer.  They do this by grabbing the first EthernetG MAC address they see and then they ignore anything from a different MACcI address.    So, the first system (Alpha or iMac) that the EICON sees will  work and the other won't.<  / "DTL" <Didier.Morandi@Free.fr> wrote in messageb  news:3D007CBD.4070607@Free.fr...; > DTL02::DTL up and running... but not the iMac anymore :-(  >- > D. >    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 07 Jun 2002 19:31:25 +0200h- From: Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@Free.fr> F Subject: Re: How to put my VMS box on a BroadBand Connection (part II)' Message-ID: <3D00EDED.7376B47C@Free.fr>l   This is exactly what happened.  J I reinstalled IPNetRouter, followed the automatic configuration procedure,O removed all options (NAT, PPPoE, masquerading and such) and Bob is my uncle :-)    Many thanks to all,.   D.   John Vottero wrote:  > N > What did you change to get the Alpha working?  If you didn't change anythingK > then the problem may be the EICON router.  There are products that try towN > limit you to a single computer.  They do this by grabbing the first EthernetI > MAC address they see and then they ignore anything from a different MAC=K > address.    So, the first system (Alpha or iMac) that the EICON sees will  > work and the other won't.-   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 07 Jun 2002 08:41:00 -0400-5 From: David Beatty <David.Beatty@qwertysasasdfgh.com>5- Subject: Re: HP Alphaservers and Lan Consolesa2 Message-ID: <b6kAPXgUK0h8LnxIAom87QS=lpED@4ax.com>  E On Thu, 06 Jun 2002 22:15:58 -0400, rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robertn Deininger) wrote:e  G >In article <20020606193631.61618.qmail@web20209.mail.yahoo.com>, Fabioa* >Cardoso <fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br> wrote: > 6 >>Hi someone at HP Alphaservers/PA-RISC engineering... > H >I don't think there is any such group.  Alphaserver and PA-RISC systemsF >are designed by different groups.  Both server lines are being phasedE >out.  Many of the new generation PA-RISC systems will support in-boxlI >upgrades to IPF processors.  Alpha to IPF upgrades will eventually be of  >the whole-box variety.  >0 > 8 >>Would we have Lan Consoles for HP Alphaservers now ??? >oE >Why would you expect a major change in direction for the alphaserveru >systems in the pipeline?s >nG >I believe the GS-series alphaservers have some LAN capabilities in thegF >consoles, but that is not new and has nothing to do with HP's PA-RISC
 >server line.d >eK >What, specifically, are you asking for?  What would this "LAN console" do?a  > A LAN console allows one to connect to the console of a serverB via a TCP/IP connection, i.e. it's an independent module.  I think8 it's called GSP on HP, if my memory serves me correctly.  @ I don't know the cost of GSP, so I don't know if there is a cost& advantage vs. using a terminal server.   David R. Beattye   ------------------------------   Date: 7 Jun 2002 13:58:18 GMTe3 From: gartmann@immunbio.mpg.de (Christoph Gartmann)r- Subject: Re: HP Alphaservers and Lan Consoles 0 Message-ID: <adqe5q$1gm$2@n.ruf.uni-freiburg.de>  j In article <b6kAPXgUK0h8LnxIAom87QS=lpED@4ax.com>, David Beatty <David.Beatty@qwertysasasdfgh.com> writes:F >On Thu, 06 Jun 2002 22:15:58 -0400, rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert >Deininger) wrote: >kH >>In article <20020606193631.61618.qmail@web20209.mail.yahoo.com>, Fabio+ >>Cardoso <fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br> wrote:e >>7 >>>Hi someone at HP Alphaservers/PA-RISC engineering...o >>I >>I don't think there is any such group.  Alphaserver and PA-RISC systemsaG >>are designed by different groups.  Both server lines are being phased F >>out.  Many of the new generation PA-RISC systems will support in-boxJ >>upgrades to IPF processors.  Alpha to IPF upgrades will eventually be of >>the whole-box variety. >> >>9 >>>Would we have Lan Consoles for HP Alphaservers now ???s >>F >>Why would you expect a major change in direction for the alphaserver >>systems in the pipeline? >>H >>I believe the GS-series alphaservers have some LAN capabilities in theG >>consoles, but that is not new and has nothing to do with HP's PA-RISCp >>server line. >>L >>What, specifically, are you asking for?  What would this "LAN console" do? ><? >A LAN console allows one to connect to the console of a servernC >via a TCP/IP connection, i.e. it's an independent module.  I thinkh9 >it's called GSP on HP, if my memory serves me correctly.  >eA >I don't know the cost of GSP, so I don't know if there is a costy' >advantage vs. using a terminal server.>  N And there are console extenders available that support connections via TCP/IP.L So if you need such a functionality it is already available, of course at an extra cost.u   Regards,    Christoph GartmannF  H -- --------------------------------------------------------------------+H | Max-Planck-Institut fuer      Phone   : +49-761-5108-464   Fax: -452 |H | Immunbiologie                                                        |H | Postfach 1169                 Internet: gartmann@immunbio.mpg.de     |H | D-79011  Freiburg, Germany                                           |H +--------- http://www.immunbio.mpg.de/home/english/menue.html ---------+   ------------------------------  * Date: Fri, 7 Jun 2002 08:24:32 -0700 (PDT). From: Fabio Cardoso <fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br>- Subject: Re: HP Alphaservers and Lan ConsolesO@ Message-ID: <20020607152432.37112.qmail@web20205.mail.yahoo.com>  5 The Lan Console is based in a board (GSP) with serialn5 an lan ports. I installed HP-UX in two L-1000 servers>2 and this board was default in the config. When the' Itanium servers from HP become availbleg6 (HP-UX/OpenVMS) may be it still as a default hardware.     Regardsg     FC  1 --- Christoph Gartmann <gartmann@immunbio.mpg.de>i wrote:4 > In article <b6kAPXgUK0h8LnxIAom87QS=lpED@4ax.com>,1 > David Beatty <David.Beatty@qwertysasasdfgh.com>s	 > writes: & > >On Thu, 06 Jun 2002 22:15:58 -0400,# > rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert  > >Deininger) wrote: > >> > >>In article >>5 <20020606193631.61618.qmail@web20209.mail.yahoo.com>,t > Fabio - > >>Cardoso <fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br> wrote:t > >>* > >>>Hi someone at HP Alphaservers/PA-RISC > engineering... > >>+ > >>I don't think there is any such group. m! > Alphaserver and PA-RISC systems>2 > >>are designed by different groups.  Both server > lines are being phased4 > >>out.  Many of the new generation PA-RISC systems > will support in-boxr6 > >>upgrades to IPF processors.  Alpha to IPF upgrades > will eventually be of_ > >>the whole-box variety. > >> > >>3 > >>>Would we have Lan Consoles for HP Alphaserversn	 > now ???F > >>4 > >>Why would you expect a major change in direction > for the alphaserver= > >>systems in the pipeline? > >>6 > >>I believe the GS-series alphaservers have some LAN > capabilities in the@4 > >>consoles, but that is not new and has nothing to > do with HP's PA-RISC > >>server line. > >>1 > >>What, specifically, are you asking for?  What0 > would this "LAN console" do? > >u5 > >A LAN console allows one to connect to the consolea
 > of a server 4 > >via a TCP/IP connection, i.e. it's an independent > module.  I think0 > >it's called GSP on HP, if my memory serves me > correctly. > >n3 > >I don't know the cost of GSP, so I don't know if4 > there is a cost ) > >advantage vs. using a terminal server.o > 0 > And there are console extenders available that! > support connections via TCP/IP.t3 > So if you need such a functionality it is alreadye > available, of course at an
 > extra cost.t > 
 > Regards, >    Christoph Gartmanns >  > -- >nE --------------------------------------------------------------------+ + > | Max-Planck-Institut fuer      Phone   :n  > +49-761-5108-464   Fax: -452 |6 > | Immunbiologie                                      >                   | + > | Postfach 1169                 Internet:r  > gartmann@immunbio.mpg.de     |6 > | D-79011  Freiburg, Germany                         >                   |  > +---------4 > http://www.immunbio.mpg.de/home/english/menue.html
 ---------+     =====- ========================== Fbio dos Santos Cardoso OpenVMS System Manager Rio de Janeiro - Brazil  fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br ==========================  2 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!?0 Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 07 Jun 2002 17:32:06 +0200c9 From: Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com>D- Subject: Re: HP Alphaservers and Lan Consolesi' Message-ID: <3D00D1F6.58AF5B06@aaa.com>   1 I sometimes just connect an old phased-out serials0 "printserver" and telnet using the portnumber of< the serial port (usualy 2001 or 9001 or something like that.  4 But I suppose a "Lan Console" does more than that...   Jan-Erik Sderholm.m   ------------------------------   Date: 7 Jun 2002 01:16:22 -0700 % From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>m3 Subject: Re: just got this - OpenVMS faxing utilitye( Message-ID: <adpq4m0ap6@drn.newsguy.com>  8 In article <00A0F103.DCB6EBF9@SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>,& winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU says... > L >In article <3CFF86B3.62995506@uiowa.edu>, Rick Dyson <rick-dyson@uiowa.edu> >writes: >>"Ruslan R. Laishev" wrote: >>>  >>> Hi ! >>> D >>>         This SW still working only with exotic Multitech modems? >>F >>Maybe, but I will defend the Mutitech modems and would not call themD >>exotic. :)  They are just proffessional quality.  They run all theH >>time and generally don't fail or hicup.  In my experience, I can't say8 >>that for the USRs and all the 'no names' of the world. >>I >>Heck, the 56k models only cost ~ US$120.  High compared to the internalh6 >>PC clones, but you don't want one of them anyway. :) > N >I was a happy Gold-FAX system manager for several years, and never had a lick, >of trouble from the exotic Multitech modem.  O And the same 'exotic' Multitech modems were supplied by Compaq for use with DSNh until a couple of years ago.  & >(Now we have an NT-based "solution".)   Luckily I still have GoldFax   >-- Alan >a > P >===============================================================================1 > Alan Winston --- WINSTON@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU N > Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056N > Physical mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 69, PO BOX 4349, STANFORD, CA  94309-0210P >=============================================================================== >b   ------------------------------   Date: 7 Jun 2002 06:53:38 GMTt3 From: gartmann@immunbio.mpg.de (Christoph Gartmann)i3 Subject: Re: just got this - OpenVMS faxing utilityt0 Message-ID: <adpl9i$jg4$1@n.ruf.uni-freiburg.de>  g In article <3CFF7E04.3960FF43@SMTP.DeltaTel.RU>, "Ruslan R. Laishev" <Laishev@SMTP.DeltaTel.RU> writes:l: >	This SW still working only with exotic Multitech modems?  M You are free to use a different brand. The software doesn't explicitely checkrN for a MultiTech. But if your modem doesn't work the first thing they will tellK you is to buy a MultiTech. Our MultiTech is running since several years nowS without any failure (24x7).e   Regards,    Christoph Gartmann   H -- --------------------------------------------------------------------+H | Max-Planck-Institut fuer      Phone   : +49-761-5108-464   Fax: -452 |H | Immunbiologie                                                        |H | Postfach 1169                 Internet: gartmann@immunbio.mpg.de     |H | D-79011  Freiburg, Germany                                           |H +--------- http://www.immunbio.mpg.de/home/english/menue.html ---------+   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 07 Jun 2002 05:23:21 -0400d- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>o3 Subject: Re: just got this - OpenVMS faxing utilityd, Message-ID: <3D007B7F.F85220A6@videotron.ca>   Alan Greig wrote:oQ > And the same 'exotic' Multitech modems were supplied by Compaq for use with DSN  > until a couple of years ago.  L I had a few multitech modems. I have to say that their technical support wasH excellent. At one point, a user in england (who also had a multitech, byN chance) was no longer able to connect to my modems in canada. Spent many hoursE in the wee hours of the morning trying various things and then calledgN Multitech who did remote tests on my modem, showed me how to interpret all theK line quality test graphs etc etc.  Ceryainly, their modems were loaded withw4 more features than the el-cheapo stuff made for PCs.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 07 Jun 2002 11:40:38 +0100-( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1>3 Subject: Re: just got this - OpenVMS faxing utility ) Message-ID: <3D008DA6.7B3EBC2F@127.0.0.1>u   JF Mezei wrote:S >  > Alan Greig wrote:8S > > And the same 'exotic' Multitech modems were supplied by Compaq for use with DSNh  > > until a couple of years ago. > N > I had a few multitech modems. I have to say that their technical support wasJ > excellent. At one point, a user in england (who also had a multitech, byP > chance) was no longer able to connect to my modems in canada. Spent many hoursG > in the wee hours of the morning trying various things and then called P > Multitech who did remote tests on my modem, showed me how to interpret all theM > line quality test graphs etc etc.  Ceryainly, their modems were loaded withe6 > more features than the el-cheapo stuff made for PCs.  C We used the first MultiTech 14.4 Modems, tiny little things [at theaG time]. We had a few issues, but we had updated ROMs shipped, (EPROMS innH fact, which we were asked to return as they were in short supply!) which cured the problems.u   -- o( Regards, Nic Clews CSC Computer Sciences nclews at csc dot com,   ------------------------------   Date: 7 Jun 2002 04:17:26 -0700m% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>e3 Subject: Re: just got this - OpenVMS faxing utilityi( Message-ID: <adq4o60vkq@drn.newsguy.com>  I In article <adpl9i$jg4$1@n.ruf.uni-freiburg.de>, gartmann@immunbio.mpg.dep says...  >gE >In article <3CFF7E04.3960FF43@SMTP.DeltaTel.RU>, "Ruslan R. Laishev"l# ><Laishev@SMTP.DeltaTel.RU> writes: ; >>	This SW still working only with exotic Multitech modems?e >oN >You are free to use a different brand. The software doesn't explicitely checkO >for a MultiTech. But if your modem doesn't work the first thing they will tell7L >you is to buy a MultiTech. Our MultiTech is running since several years now >without any failure (24x7).  P If it's fairly old it may only connect at 9600 Fax modem speed. Newer MultitechsO will connect at up to V90 56k if talking to other software based FAX systems ore newer FAX machines./  P Made our FAX queues clear much quicker when I swapped in a new one. It's amazingM though how many companies still run FAX systems which can't do more then 4800v let alone anything faster!    	 >Regards,m >   Christoph Gartmann >KI >-- --------------------------------------------------------------------+hI >| Max-Planck-Institut fuer      Phone   : +49-761-5108-464   Fax: -452 |wI >| Immunbiologie                                                        |nI >| Postfach 1169                 Internet: gartmann@immunbio.mpg.de     | I >| D-79011  Freiburg, Germany                                           |'I >+--------- http://www.immunbio.mpg.de/home/english/menue.html ---------+g   ------------------------------   Date: 7 Jun 2002 13:54:21 GMTe3 From: gartmann@immunbio.mpg.de (Christoph Gartmann)n3 Subject: Re: just got this - OpenVMS faxing utilityo0 Message-ID: <adqdud$1gm$1@n.ruf.uni-freiburg.de>  P In article <adq4o60vkq@drn.newsguy.com>, Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net> writes:J >In article <adpl9i$jg4$1@n.ruf.uni-freiburg.de>, gartmann@immunbio.mpg.de >says... >>F >>In article <3CFF7E04.3960FF43@SMTP.DeltaTel.RU>, "Ruslan R. Laishev"$ >><Laishev@SMTP.DeltaTel.RU> writes:< >>>	This SW still working only with exotic Multitech modems? >>O >>You are free to use a different brand. The software doesn't explicitely checkmP >>for a MultiTech. But if your modem doesn't work the first thing they will tellM >>you is to buy a MultiTech. Our MultiTech is running since several years nowp >>without any failure (24x7).g >nQ >If it's fairly old it may only connect at 9600 Fax modem speed. Newer Multitechs P >will connect at up to V90 56k if talking to other software based FAX systems or >newer FAX machines.  M Ours is 33 k and you can't get 56k over a standard phoneline. 56k can only be(+ reached if one end is digital such as ISDN.k   Regards,    Christoph Gartmannd  H -- --------------------------------------------------------------------+H | Max-Planck-Institut fuer      Phone   : +49-761-5108-464   Fax: -452 |H | Immunbiologie                                                        |H | Postfach 1169                 Internet: gartmann@immunbio.mpg.de     |H | D-79011  Freiburg, Germany                                           |H +--------- http://www.immunbio.mpg.de/home/english/menue.html ---------+   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 07 Jun 2002 09:11:01 -0600N From: Kevin Handy <kth@srv.net> < Subject: Re: Library files as high performance file system ?& Message-ID: <3D00CD05.5050608@srv.net>   JF Mezei wrote:a > Just crious: > M > There are many complaints about how slow the VMS file system is, especiallyo- > with the creation of many many small files.p > O > Could library files (.TLBs) scale to handle large amount of small files ? ForhE > instance, a library file to handle newsgroup postings for instance.y > P > I assume tat module deletes would be problematic and might require the library: > file be recreated at regular intervals to reclaim space.  8 Not sure about current versions of VMS, but I found that7 opening/closing a library frequently (in a loop), wouldg8 leak memory like crazy.  This was under BASIC, using the LBR$ routines.  6 Also, you cannot share libraries like you can with RMS4 files. It doesn't like more than one person doing an update at one time.    ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 7 Jun 2002 11:24:57 -05001 From: "Dave Gudewicz" <david.gudewicz@abbott.com>t Subject: Re: low-end VMS1 Message-ID: <adqmrg$smr$1@fizban.pprd.abbott.com>   ) Cooling the beast might be a problem too.e   -- Dave...t  L Let me make the superstitions of a nation and I care not who makes its laws. -----Mark Twain   = "Zane H. Healy" <healyzh@shell1.aracnet.com> wrote in messagee& news:adpdvs01oc7@enews4.newsguy.com...2 > David J. Dachtera <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote:K > >> > When the Itanium laptop is available, VMS should install and boot oni it.  > >>J > >> The question is, will there be an Itanium laptop available for $1000? >eD > > Is there a current IA32 laptop that sells new for less than $1K? >iG > I for one would be willing to pay twice that for a modern laptop thatc could J > run OpenVMS native.  Unfortuantly, I don't expect to see a Itanium basedK > laptop anytime soon.  Have you ever seen an Itanium CPU?  I have, they'reS7 > not exactly small (even when you open up the casing).w >e > Zane   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 07 Jun 2002 14:30:45 +0100rU From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <andrew_nospam.harrison_remove_this@sun#.com> / Subject: Re: Mark Gorham's Beer Bash in Readinga0 Message-ID: <adqd1s$620$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   JF Mezei wrote:   # > re: Sun's support of Star Office.  > N > Actually, it might be good for Sun to start to port its software, especially* > desktop software to VMS (and not HP-UX). >     E We are unlikely to do this, however OpenOffice is available to peoplen9 who have the resources to port to any platform they like.m    P > Consider HP which does not want VMS as a desktop and wants VMS to go away overM > time. Everytime Sun ports something to VMS for workstations, it will createlL > demand for VMS workstations and screw HP's plans which hasn't inteneded toP > make VMS available on workstations, yet customers will be clamouring for them. > P > That would undermine HP's roadmaps, especially if Star Office is ported to VMS > and not HP-UX. >     # OpenOffice has been ported to both.C    N > Also, such a "we support VMS, where is HP's support of VMS?" action from SunP > would get some good brownie points with VMS customers who are then more likely" > to go to Sun when HP screws VMS. > M > Consider that if a VMS customer is using Star Office on his DS-10s and evenAN > VAXstations, and finds out that HP has cancelled low end Alpha workstations,L > is he more likely to go to Wintel with Office, or to Sun workstations with > Star Office ?  > K > I think that Sun porting Star Office to VAX and Alpha VMS would be a verydM > strategic move for Sun. Not only would some of these VMS customers start toSK > pay Sun for support of Star Office, but more importantly, Sun would get arM > communication link to many potential customers, especially in light of HP'sPI > long term lack of plans for VMS which means that many customers will bee# > looking at an alternative vendor.C >     D As I said earlier it is unlikely that Sun would do this but the code& is available for anyone else to do so.   Regardsh Andrew Harrison1   ------------------------------   Date: 7 Jun 2002 13:30:58 GMT 1 From: bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) / Subject: Re: Mark Gorham's Beer Bash in Reading , Message-ID: <adqcii$30it$2@info.cs.uofs.edu>  6 In article <200206060615.IAA21221@sinet1.fom.fgan.de>,)  Rudolf Wingert <win@fom.fgan.de> writes:  |>I |> StarOffice was good and (I hope so) will be better in the new version. E |> That it cost some money doesn't matter. But is it compatible to MSrE |> Office. I hope so, but user expirience is not as good as it should5C |> be. But if StarOffice is written in standard C, why don't we seerC |> an OpenVMS version. Filestructure should not be the problem (yousG |> can map any typ of filestructure). Or is it political. Is Sun afraide/ |> about the good OpenVMS and its unused power?d  E This is the second message I have seen today that hinted that portingnA software from Unix to VMS was somehow trivial.  Being involved inpD trying to sell the idea of doing exactly that, as academic projects,F to faculty and students here I can assure it is not the case.  PortingE even trivial programs is difficult and porting something the size and1G complexity of StarOffice is probably on a par with the FreeVMS project.o   bill   -- mJ Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   h   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 07 Jun 2002 17:00:31 GMTt* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>/ Subject: Re: Mark Gorham's Beer Bash in Reading B Message-ID: <PE5M8.154233$%o.14725670@bin3.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>  > "Bill Gunshannon" <bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu> wrote in message& news:adqcii$30it$2@info.cs.uofs.edu...   ...r  G > This is the second message I have seen today that hinted that portingsC > software from Unix to VMS was somehow trivial.  Being involved iniF > trying to sell the idea of doing exactly that, as academic projects,H > to faculty and students here I can assure it is not the case.  PortingG > even trivial programs is difficult and porting something the size andlI > complexity of StarOffice is probably on a par with the FreeVMS project.   G While the port would likely not be trivial, it would surprise me if thecF effort already expended porting Star Office to Windows (especially NT)* didn't reduce its magnitude significantly.   - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 07 Jun 2002 18:10:59 +0100iU From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <andrew_nospam.harrison_remove_this@sun#.com> / Subject: Re: Mark Gorham's Beer Bash in Reading 0 Message-ID: <adqpur$a06$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   Bill Todd wrote:  @ > "Bill Gunshannon" <bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu> wrote in message( > news:adqcii$30it$2@info.cs.uofs.edu... >  > ...  >  > G >>This is the second message I have seen today that hinted that portingoC >>software from Unix to VMS was somehow trivial.  Being involved in F >>trying to sell the idea of doing exactly that, as academic projects,H >>to faculty and students here I can assure it is not the case.  PortingG >>even trivial programs is difficult and porting something the size andsI >>complexity of StarOffice is probably on a par with the FreeVMS project.o >> > I > While the port would likely not be trivial, it would surprise me if the_H > effort already expended porting Star Office to Windows (especially NT), > didn't reduce its magnitude significantly. >     ; In its pre-FCS phase OpenOffice was being ported to OpenVMSa: there is now however no listed owner on the OpenOffice.org8 site and no status reports that I can find. This is also: true for HP-UX which as also being ported prior to the 1.0 release.  7 Other vendors are porting SGI for example and there areh8 ports underway for MACOS and a number of other platforms& other than Solaris, Linux and Windows.  = The lack of a contact name for the OpenVMS port of OpenOffice-< makes it difficult to get any concrete information about the0 difficulties or otherwise of porting to OpenVMS.   Regardsf Andrew Harrisone   ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 7 Jun 2002 10:56:14 -0400  From: norm.raphael@jamesbury.com5 Subject: Mounting shadowset system disks across a SANB? Message-ID: <OFD8FC3770.B1DF3E2E-ON85256BD1.00517611@metso.com>:  A In the April 2001 white paper "Fibre Channel in Disaster-Tolerants; OpenVMS Cluster System" it say in footnote 2 on page 5 thata> "mounting system disk shadow sets in DT configurations on both sites is not recommended."  ? In a meeting yesterday, I was told that enhancements to OpenVMSd* made since this was published negate this.  1 What is correct and why (feel free to elaborate)?    -Norm.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 07 Jun 2002 19:29:06 +0200r- From: Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@Free.fr>e Subject: MOZILLA and CSWBh' Message-ID: <3D00ED63.ED8AB0A3@Free.fr>y  / MOZILLA 1.0 has been reelased (www.mozilla.org)o  7 I suppose that the VMS version is the same as CSWB 1.0?e: (for dummies, CSWB is the Compaq (RIP) Secure Web Browser)   D.  Y PS: both my Alpha and my Mac are up and running on the Internet. Many thanks to everyone.n   D. -- =2   ------------------------------------------------2 MORANDI Consultants  http://Didier.Morandi.Free.fr0   19 chemin de la Butte, 31400 Toulouse, France.2 Tel.: +33 (0)6 7983 6418 - Fax: +33 (0)5 6154 19282 OpenVMS, APPLE, Computer Security, Migration plans2 --------------------------------------------------   ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 7 Jun 2002 12:42:39 -05001 From: "Dave Gudewicz" <david.gudewicz@abbott.com>3 Subject: Re: MOZILLA and CSWBi0 Message-ID: <adqrda$45$1@fizban.pprd.abbott.com>  / How does v1.0 look and feel on your VMS system?p   -- Dave....  L Let me make the superstitions of a nation and I care not who makes its laws. -----Mark Twain@  : "Didier Morandi" <Didier.Morandi@Free.fr> wrote in message! news:3D00ED63.ED8AB0A3@Free.fr... 1 > MOZILLA 1.0 has been reelased (www.mozilla.org)  >l9 > I suppose that the VMS version is the same as CSWB 1.0?w< > (for dummies, CSWB is the Compaq (RIP) Secure Web Browser) >r > D. >hG > PS: both my Alpha and my Mac are up and running on the Internet. Manya thanks to everyone.r >n > D. > --4 >   ------------------------------------------------4 > MORANDI Consultants  http://Didier.Morandi.Free.fr2 >   19 chemin de la Butte, 31400 Toulouse, France.4 > Tel.: +33 (0)6 7983 6418 - Fax: +33 (0)5 6154 19284 > OpenVMS, APPLE, Computer Security, Migration plans4 > --------------------------------------------------   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 07 Jun 2002 08:18:19 GMTm2 From: "Andrew Dodd" <Andrew.J.Dodd@HP.spamfreecom> Subject: Re: No new Alpha salesr1 Message-ID: <f%ZL8.1$2B1.109674@news.cpqcorp.net>e  G I often wish it was. There was at least one site in the US that ran thelI backend database, Oracle, on VMS and the application servers on something D else, probably UNIX I don't recall. App servers can come and go withH reasonable transparency it's the backend that matters. But it was pretty much unsupported.t  I If IBM had had more success with SAP on AS/400 then SAP might have looked L more favourably on other "special" ports. But IBM paid a lot of money and it. generated only marginal excess return for SAP.   I can't see it happening.i   --" Andrew Dodd - not speaking for HP. Pre-Sales Account Consultant HP Computer Ltdr www.hp.com/uk/   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 07 Jun 2002 15:23:27 +0100oU From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <andrew_nospam.harrison_remove_this@sun#.com>  Subject: Re: No new Alpha sales00 Message-ID: <adqg4m$73h$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   Andrew Dodd wrote:  F > I plead guilty - Andrew is right. I wouldn't disagree with 70%. I do5 > undestand SAP - I design hardware solutions for it.h > E > But I do contest that it is still a more meaningful comparison than  > benchmarks like SPECint etc. >     D I agree entirely, hence why I used the SAP results to illustrate why? Robs claims that you will need more SPARC CPU's than Alphas ared BS.l      L > When we did the SAP BM that was the latest version, adjust it by 70% and aN > per CPU measure comes out just about the same, 50 users per cpu on GS, 53 onM > F15k. Then we could have a discussion about the shape of the tail-off curvelK > and the effect of the GS with 1001MHz CPUs with bigger caches which coulddI > well put the GS back up there on a per CPU basis. I don,t, can't, claimhI > parity with the F15k at its top end. What I wanted to show, and I still F > believe that I did, was that the GS series are not the total failureM > technically that Andrew claims. The only competitor I really worry about isuE > IBM with their p690 - anything else can be beaten - even with a GS.o >     > But sadly none of the none SPECint/SPECfp results show this as; I have illustrated. There are no performance numbers of theoB type you seem to prefer which show the GS320/160 to be competitive@ against, Sun, HP or IBM, you should be afraid of all of them and
 not just IBM.d  ; And this is not just a criticism that can be applied to theR7 GS series, the Turbolasers suffered in exactly the samet6 way. Great SPECint and SPECfp numbers below average on6 the kind of apps benchmarks that you appear to prefer.  7 In both the Turbolaser and WildFires there were obviousu4 inadeqacies in the system design. The TurboLaser had4 a relatively slow and long latency interconnect when9 compared with other competing systems and having to trade.5 CPU's/Memory and I/O in configs ment that most of them8 claims made by Digital for the boxes would have required9 two 8400 backplanes to be bolted together to be realised.   4 The WildFire problems have been discussed at length.  9 Of course on the plus side being bought by HP removes oneo of the competitors to fear.     I > As to TPC-H - TPC counsel against comparing differing database sizes. I G > can't remember the date of the GS 300GB benchmark, and I think it got-J > withdrawn. It's yet another benchmark where it would be nice to have theL > same benchmark on the same day and from current price lists - but it ain't > going to happen. >     4 They do, but there is in practice a good correlation7 between say 300 GB and 1 TB results for the same system 7 and this makes it a fairly safe bet to compare 300 withw 1000 GB results.   Regards/ Andrew Harrison-   ------------------------------   Date: 7 Jun 2002 12:56:54 GMT 1 From: bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)t Subject: Re: Open Letter to HP, Message-ID: <adqaim$2uva$2@info.cs.uofs.edu>  8 In article <00A0F0F9.6275D38C@SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>,O  winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU ("Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr") writes:$_ |> In article <3CFEF04C.2084D2BC@videotron.ca>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> writes:@ |> |> >Q |> >In my opinion, one would need Hewlett to take over and do a major cleanup andlL |> >replace wintel slaves with enterprise folks. Until that is done, HP willL |> >continue to be a wintel company with zero odds of VMS allowed to compete |> >against Wintel.w |> hK |> You know, the enemy of your enemy isn't necessarily your friend.  WalteruR |> Hewlett wanted HP to focus on the printing business; I'm not sure why you think! |> that'd be good for enterprise.   G Walter Hewlett wants the company to succeed and prosper.  He would haveoK prefered that it stayed focused ont he elements it was good at.  It didn't.dJ Knowing the kind of businessman he appears to be, if he were in charge nowH he would do whatever he could make the company profitable.  Now that theG merger is a done deal that would include making the enterprise business G as successful as any other or getting rid of it.  Because he is in Bill I Gates' pocket I believe he would actively support the enterprise divisiono and OpenVMS as well.   bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   :   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 07 Jun 2002 14:48:36 +0100aU From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <andrew_nospam.harrison_remove_this@sun#.com>o Subject: Re: Open Letter to HP0 Message-ID: <adqe3c$6cg$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   Rob Young wrote:  o > In article <%czL8.68032$4i.7256152@bin2.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>, "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> writes:o > 0 >>"John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> wrote in messageE >>news:3TxL8.224560$t8_.78291@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com...e >>% >>>It's got to be done at all levels.e >>>aM >>Then you might as well give up right now:  as Hoff said, ain't gonna happentK >>(at least not until VMS has already taken a major up-turn in sales due tot) >>other efforts that need to come first).a >>M >>It's your own choice whether you want to demand the world and not get it oraN >>demand something significant (to start with) and have a chance.  But even I,I >>who would love to see HP sink so quickly and so far that its entire topn >>management got replaced  >> > > > 	Going back 5 or so years, it was quite easy to marginalize B > 	Digital - until they got purchased by Compaq.  Then the fun was? > 	to marginalize Compaq - until they got purchased by HP.  Nowu  > 	the fun is to marginalize HP. > B > 	They are a $76 billion dollar per year in revenue company, withD > 	leadership in several key segments.  Far larger than everyone in  > 	their sector but IBM. >  > 	Thanks for the chuckle. >     9 In the UNIX market they are not the market leader Sun is.n9 In the storage market they arn't the leader EMC is though 8 they are losing ground rapidly to HDS. Even with HDS Sun9 sells the 9970 HDS arrays that HP also rebadge and resell ' but Sun pulls in more revenues than HP.   9 They are or may be leaders/second in a number of markets, 8 printing and printing consumables (where all the profits9 come from). PC's and PC servers they may well lead thougha7 that remains to be seen but this is low margin, IBM fort9 example operate in this market because the have to rather 5 than because it makes sense at an indevidual businessH unit level.   4 But there is precious little evidence that being say: a leader in PC's or printing has any impact on a companies6 ability to compete and sell in another market, UNIX or3 Storage for example. If this did hold true then how 4 do you explain Compaqs lack of sucess at estabishing/ themselves as a major enterprise server vendor.   4 You also make the assumption that the HP-Compaq will5 be the sum of its parts, this has never been the caser5 with any large technology merger/aquistion so far, ass/ HP know only too well, they aquired Apollo. IBMw! had the same issues with Sequent.v   Regards  Andrew Harrisono   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 07 Jun 2002 14:57:39 +0100cU From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <andrew_nospam.harrison_remove_this@sun#.com>t Subject: Re: Open Letter to HP0 Message-ID: <adqeka$6jq$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   Rob Young wrote:  q > In article <WfAL8.122443$%y.12983516@bin4.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>, "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> writes:S > : >>"Rob Young" <young_r@encompasserve.org> wrote in message/ >>news:bhY4TQ3AKUrw@eisner.encompasserve.org...  >> >>...i >> >>B >>>They are a $76 billion dollar per year in revenue company, withC >>>leadership in several key segments.  Far larger than everyone inf >>>their sector but IBM. >>>lI >>Gee - weren't they an $88 billion/year company back when the merger was,5 >>being announced?  Wonder what they'll be next year.  >> >> > E > 	75 billion this year actually, $76 billion next year according to:i > % > http://biz.yahoo.com/z/a/h/hpq.htmle > I > 	But the stocks skidded.  Speaking of sliding stocks, since you broughtaE > 	that up, have you checked out their competition or are you contents > 	just to marginalize HP? >  > 	How about Sun for instance? > & > http://biz.yahoo.com/z/a/s/sunw.html > B > 	Year ago sales ending June 2001 of $18.2 billion.  Consensus ofB > 	$12.4 billion June 2002.  An amazing growth of -32.2% in sales. >     E Nice, well not really, check out the latest IDC and Dataquest numbers E Sun is growing its market share in UNIX at the expense of IBM and HP.   ? Yes revenues are down, the whole IT sector is down, yes Sun wass< hit more than most by the dot.com downturn, lots of bankrupt@ stock flooding the market doesn't help new business. But most of" this inventory is now disposed of.  = In a downturn, which the whole IT sector is seing the winnersa< will be the companies that improve their market possition at: the expense of their competition because they will be best# placed to benefit from the revival.i  : In many ways the HP-Compaq merger is good timing, the real9 effects can be hidden by the general downturn, but if thec7 re-bound happens before HP gets its house in order thenS they will suffer very badly.       >  > L >>And, of course, as their enterprise business continues to falter a greaterL >>and greater proportion of what revenue they retain comes from (you guessedJ >>it, Walter) the PC business, so while revenue may be dropping alarmingly' >>profitability has fallen off a cliff.t >> >> > D > 	Not nearly as much as Sun is faltering.  If you are going to pickE > 	a company to marginalize, why not Sun?  They are a one trick pony,e& > 	where can they go but down and out? >     C As I said earlier, revenues are down but in our sector Sun is doingcG better than the rest. And its the sector that HP are targetting becauseyD it has the pottential for higher margins and better access to anuityB business. Why do you think HP wanted to develop IA-64 it wasn't to dominate the desktop.r     Regardsd   Andrew Harrisons   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 07 Jun 2002 16:04:16 GMT5# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>g Subject: Re: Open Letter to HPJ Message-ID: <4Q4M8.245489$t8_.193374@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>  > "Bill Gunshannon" <bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu> wrote in message& news:adqaim$2uva$2@info.cs.uofs.edu... >oJ > he would do whatever he could make the company profitable.  Now that theI > merger is a done deal that would include making the enterprise businesstI > as successful as any other or getting rid of it.  Because he is in BillsK > Gates' pocket I believe he would actively support the enterprise division  > and OpenVMS as well. >F  4 You meant "isn't in Bill Gates' pocket", didn't you?   ------------------------------   Date: 7 Jun 2002 16:23:52 GMTn1 From: bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)d Subject: Re: Open Letter to HP+ Message-ID: <adqmmo$29k$1@info.cs.uofs.edu>   J In article <4Q4M8.245489$t8_.193374@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>,&  "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> writes: |> cA |> "Bill Gunshannon" <bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu> wrote in message ) |> news:adqaim$2uva$2@info.cs.uofs.edu...lL |> >                                                   Because he is in Bill |> > Gates' pocket t |> f7 |> You meant "isn't in Bill Gates' pocket", didn't you?d |> a    Ooops.  Your very right.  Sorry.   bill   -- oJ Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   f   ------------------------------  * Date: Fri, 7 Jun 2002 12:30:38 +0000 (UTC)* From: Osmo Kujala <kujala@tukki.cc.jyu.fi>P Subject: Re: OpenVMS, Volume Desktop OS (Re: Mark Gorham's Beer Bash in Reading), Message-ID: <adq91e$bjj$1@mordred.cc.jyu.fi>  ) Bob Ceculski <bob@instantwhip.com> wrote: ` > Osmo Kujala <kujala@tukki.cc.jyu.fi> wrote in message news:<adnmh9$4f3$1@mordred.cc.jyu.fi>... ...sI >> services more reliable and easier to maintain. BUT when OpenVMS is so rN >> neglected and kept secret, I would never even suggest to increase its use.   # >  ... who cares if its a secret... J They who choose. I'm only VMS system manager here. VMS was our main systemF once. DEC got us convinced to go other way (mainly by overpricing, butD saying it directly too.) Now we clearly are not in VMS niche. (Hint: university)eE One little example of the neglect: OpenVMS doesn't reach our securityi@ standards. There must be SSH level II. (I know it can be hunted  somewhere.)    Osmo   ------------------------------  * Date: Fri, 7 Jun 2002 13:51:47 +0000 (UTC) From: david20@alpha1.mdx.ac.ukP Subject: Re: OpenVMS, Volume Desktop OS (Re: Mark Gorham's Beer Bash in Reading)+ Message-ID: <adqdpj$5kp$1@aquila.mdx.ac.uk>i  Y In article <adq91e$bjj$1@mordred.cc.jyu.fi>, Osmo Kujala <kujala@tukki.cc.jyu.fi> writes:t* >Bob Ceculski <bob@instantwhip.com> wrote:a >> Osmo Kujala <kujala@tukki.cc.jyu.fi> wrote in message news:<adnmh9$4f3$1@mordred.cc.jyu.fi>...d >....sJ >>> services more reliable and easier to maintain. BUT when OpenVMS is so O >>> neglected and kept secret, I would never even suggest to increase its use. 0 >1$ >>  ... who cares if its a secret...K >They who choose. I'm only VMS system manager here. VMS was our main systemDG >once. DEC got us convinced to go other way (mainly by overpricing, but E >saying it directly too.) Now we clearly are not in VMS niche. (Hint:S >university)F >One little example of the neglect: OpenVMS doesn't reach our securityA >standards. There must be SSH level II. (I know it can be hunted = >somewhere.) >- >Osmo- >-  N Yes this seems to be a major problem with Dec TCPIP services. Although lots ofM people ask for things like SSH version 2 it takes forever for them to appear. L I just hope this isn't like the request for XDMCP support - Something like 6 years wait.-  
 David Webb VMS and Unix team leader CCSS Middlesex University   ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 7 Jun 2002 11:55:45 -05001 From: "Dave Gudewicz" <david.gudewicz@abbott.com>-P Subject: Re: OpenVMS, Volume Desktop OS (Re: Mark Gorham's Beer Bash in Reading)1 Message-ID: <adqole$t07$1@fizban.pprd.abbott.com>s   I'm no security expert, but...  L I've read where SSH is a simple solution to a comlex problem.  That's OK butC I've also read that Kerberos is *really* a better solution, but its.J complexity keeps people away from it.  Kerberos is in TCP/IP services v5.3   -- Dave...   L Let me make the superstitions of a nation and I care not who makes its laws. -----Mark Twainh  + <david20@alpha1.mdx.ac.uk> wrote in messageI% news:adqdpj$5kp$1@aquila.mdx.ac.uk...n: > In article <adq91e$bjj$1@mordred.cc.jyu.fi>, Osmo Kujala  <kujala@tukki.cc.jyu.fi> writes:, > >Bob Ceculski <bob@instantwhip.com> wrote:: > >> Osmo Kujala <kujala@tukki.cc.jyu.fi> wrote in message( news:<adnmh9$4f3$1@mordred.cc.jyu.fi>... > >....tK > >>> services more reliable and easier to maintain. BUT when OpenVMS is so-K > >>> neglected and kept secret, I would never even suggest to increase itsm use. > >d& > >>  ... who cares if its a secret...F > >They who choose. I'm only VMS system manager here. VMS was our main systemI > >once. DEC got us convinced to go other way (mainly by overpricing, butaG > >saying it directly too.) Now we clearly are not in VMS niche. (Hint:o > >university)H > >One little example of the neglect: OpenVMS doesn't reach our securityB > >standards. There must be SSH level II. (I know it can be hunted > >somewhere.) > >I > >Osmod > >  >cH > Yes this seems to be a major problem with Dec TCPIP services. Although lots ofaG > people ask for things like SSH version 2 it takes forever for them toe appear. L > I just hope this isn't like the request for XDMCP support - Something like 6 
 > years wait.n >o > David Webb > VMS and Unix team leader > CCSS > Middlesex University   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 07 Jun 2002 09:49:29 -0500o+ From: Chuck Aaron <caaron@ceris.purdue.edu>@  Subject: question - SEARCH util.0 Message-ID: <3D00C7F9.36D8AEE3@ceris.purdue.edu>  ; Does anyone know of a search utility that has multi booleans3 capabilities that will search index and html files?n   Thanks,e   Chuckw   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 07 Jun 2002 17:28:34 +0200i9 From: Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com> $ Subject: Re: question - SEARCH util.' Message-ID: <3D00D122.820AA5EE@aaa.com>c  < What is an "index file" ? A RMS file with file org=indexed ?' And html is just a "text file", right ?   > Depending on what you want to do, I'd use DCL, SEARCH, PERL or! some other Unix port such as awk.    Jan-Erik Sderholm     Chuck Aaron wrote: > = > Does anyone know of a search utility that has multi booleanf5 > capabilities that will search index and html files?c > 	 > Thanks,l >  > Chucka   ------------------------------   Date: 7 Jun 2002 10:56:01 -0600 - From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) $ Subject: Re: question - SEARCH util.3 Message-ID: <NoT7gu$1poMh@eisner.encompasserve.org>h  ^ In article <3D00C7F9.36D8AEE3@ceris.purdue.edu>, Chuck Aaron <caaron@ceris.purdue.edu> writes:= > Does anyone know of a search utility that has multi booleanl5 > capabilities that will search index and html files?   @ Certainly the SRF software from Terabase Corporation will do allB of that, and was used for the back end of the NorthernLight search engine.P  A From your use of the word "utility", however, it seems likely youn wanted something cheaper.i   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 07 Jun 2002 13:55:47 -0400t1 From: Michael Austin <maustin@firstdbasource.com> $ Subject: Re: question - SEARCH util.2 Message-ID: <3D00F3A3.93083AC6@firstdbasource.com>   Chuck Aaron wrote: > = > Does anyone know of a search utility that has multi booleans5 > capabilities that will search index and html files?  > 	 > Thanks,w >  > Chuckp  3 Are you looking at creating your own search engine?O  & $search *.html,*.xyz  "string of text"  H SEARCH is record-based (one line at a time) you can use boolean on a per
 record basis.e   Like: % $ search login.com set,user/match=andb/ 	$       Setuser :== "@USER1:[MAUSTIN]Setuser " 5 	$       sd :==   "@USER1:[MAUSTIN]sd "  !set defaults' $ search login.com set,user,z/match=ande' %SEARCH-I-NOMATCHES, no strings matchedz $     G Here is an interesting search tool... it has not been perfected, but is  somewhat functional.  - ---------< cut here >------------------------t $create tmp.tmpa   $delete tmp.tmp;*d $search *.com; 'p1'/out=tmp.tmpt $if p2 .nes. "" then ut=tmp.tmp 3 $if p3 .nes. "" then search *.com; 'p3'/out=tmp.tmpn4 $if p4 .nes. "" then $search *.com; 'p4'/out=tmp.tmp4 $if p5 .nes. "" then $search *.com; 'p5'/out=tmp.tmp4 $if p6 .nes. "" then $search *.com; 'p6'/out=tmp.tmp4 $if p7 .nes. "" then $search *.com; 'p7'/out=tmp.tmp4 $if p8 .nes. "" then $search *.com; 'p8'/out=tmp.tmp $ copy tmp.tmp;* tmp.tmp1: $sear tmp.tmp1 ".com"s $exit - ---------< cut here >------------------------<   -- 9 Regards,  7 Michael Austin            Registered Linux User #261163 7 First DBA Source, Inc.    http://www.firstdbasource.comr Sr. Consultant 704-947-1089 (Office)  704-236-4377 (Mobile)o   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 07 Jun 2002 08:54:38 +0200t= From: Arne =?iso-8859-1?Q?Vajh=F8j?= <arne.vajhoej@gtech.com>s! Subject: RRD46 hardware problem ?t( Message-ID: <3D0058AE.F8E5C3D@gtech.com>  	 Symptoms:n4   - when CD is inserted is starts blinking and after.     approx. 1 minute the ligth is permanent on8   - an attempt to mount the CD gives an "medium offline"	     errort  3 Am I correct in assuming that the drive is broken ?t  . Is it possible to try and clean such a drive ?   Arne   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 07 Jun 2002 12:56:28 +0100t( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1>% Subject: Re: RRD46 hardware problem ? ) Message-ID: <3D009F6C.F0654676@127.0.0.1>    Arne Vajhj wrote: >  > Symptoms:l6 >   - when CD is inserted is starts blinking and after0 >     approx. 1 minute the ligth is permanent on: >   - an attempt to mount the CD gives an "medium offline" >     errore > 5 > Am I correct in assuming that the drive is broken ?p  ' I'm on my third RRD46 ! (Same symptoms)s  l0 > Is it possible to try and clean such a drive ?  @ I tried a commercially available CD audio cleaner, but as you'reE supposed to play the audio, I've no idea if it actually worked to get  the brush area over the lens.    -- #( Regards, Nic Clews CSC Computer Sciences nclews at csc dot com    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 07 Jun 2002 07:40:23 -0400l( From: David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>% Subject: Re: RRD46 hardware problem ? , Message-ID: <3D009BA7.2030307@tsoft-inc.com>   Arne Vajhj wrote:   > Symptoms:t6 >   - when CD is inserted is starts blinking and after0 >     approx. 1 minute the ligth is permanent on: >   - an attempt to mount the CD gives an "medium offline" >     error$ > 5 > Am I correct in assuming that the drive is broken ?I > 0 > Is it possible to try and clean such a drive ?    L I bought a kit at Walmart, so I guess it's pretty much available, which had O components to clean CD disks, and a cleaning disk with a brush that cleans the hA lens in the drive.  It has worked well in every drive I tried it.n   Dave     > Arne >    ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 7 Jun 2002 09:25:21 -0400* From: WILLIAM WEBB <WWEBB1@email.usps.gov>% Subject: RE: RRD46 hardware problem ?i- Message-ID: <0033000067150157000002L072*@MHS>   & =0AIs there a pattern to the blinking?  ; I recall that some SCSI drives do primitive error reporting = based on how they blink; whether the 46 falls into this groupt& (as Clouseau would say) I do not knuh.   WWWebb   -----Original Message-----/ From: Info-VAX-Request@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNETy# Sent: Friday, June 07, 2002 3:38 AMsB To: Webb, William W Raleigh, NC; Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNET! Subject: RRD46 hardware problem ?     	 Symptoms:a4   - when CD is inserted is starts blinking and after.     approx. 1 minute the ligth is permanent on8   - an attempt to mount the CD gives an "medium offline"	     errorh  3 Am I correct in assuming that the drive is broken ?   . Is it possible to try and clean such a drive ?   Arne=l   ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 7 Jun 2002 10:49:09 -0400  From: norm.raphael@jamesbury.com Subject: SAN shadowing questionl? Message-ID: <OF2802558C.171A7F6A-ON85256BD1.0050CBEF@metso.com>B  4 I came out of a meeting yesterday with the following1 (excuse me if I mix OpenVMS and SAN terminology):i  4 If I have a remote VMScluster with AlphaServers with3 2 KGPSA's each connected to a Brocade Switch Fabricn3 to 2 HSG80's connected to storage at each location,e/ I can configure a storage-based shadowset _on a 1 single fabric_ with a member disk in EMA-box A onp4 one site and a member disk in EMA-box B on the other7 site, and present this as a single LUN to Alphaservers.h  4 I had understood that storage-based shadowset member$ disks had to be in the same EMA-box.   What is correct?   -Normg   ------------------------------   Date: 7 Jun 2002 07:32:40 -0700 1 From: keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com (Keith Parris) # Subject: Re: Shadow sets efficiency-= Message-ID: <cf15391e.0206070632.1cba91a7@posting.google.com>   3 Having actually tested this, I can shed some light.o  C If you have a disk to add to a shadowset, and you know the contentsaB are definitely different from the shadowset (because, for example,F it's a fresh drive from the factory that is replacing a failed drive),? it is indeed always faster, in all the tests I've done, to do amF BACKUP/PHYSICAL followed by doing a shadow full-copy to the drive thanF to simply add the disk directly to the shadowset and let the full-copy fix the differences.  A This is because of the algorithm that Shadowing uses to do a Fulli< Copy.  It does not simply read and write data like one mightC intuitively expect.  Instead, it does a read, a compare, and if the E comparison fails, writes to the target disk and then loops around and E does the read and compare again, until it gets a match.  So on a diskcA with different data, that implies a read, a compare, a write, andd> another read and a compare for each segment of data (presentlyD Shadowing deals with 127-block segments).  If the data is identical,< only the read and compare are needed (with just a few of theF more-complex operations in the few areas where the data might differ).  A A description of the algorithms used may be found in Scott Davis'.$ Digital Technical Journal article atF http://www.research.compaq.com/wrl/DECarchives/DTJ/DTJ301/DTJ301SC.TXT  D Jim McKinney was correct on what happens if you do a BACKUP/PHYSICALE of a shadowset to a disk and then add that disk into the shadowset --bF it is admitted to the set as a Merge member.  This is potentially veryA dangerous, because any merge member is considered to have equallyoD valid data for reads, and some of the reads might go to the new diskD before it is completely merged.  If, as the original poster may haveE intended, you are copying a shadowset that you can ensure will remainrE static the entire time of the BACKUP/PHYSICAL, then all the blocks onhE all of the disks wills still be identical, and all would be OK duringb
 the merge.  C But because the BACKUP/PHYSICAL tends to copy the SCB early on, and F (1) the data on the source disk at most sites would likely continue to% change after Backup passes it by, andr? (2) if the Backup got interrupted at any time after the SCB wasa@ copied, lots of the disk could still have its original contents,D it's very important that if you use this trick, you must ensure thatF the SCB on the target disk gets clobbered before there is any possibleA chance that the disk might get included into the shadowset with anE MOUNT (and that includes having its device name in a MOUNT command inn= a startup file that might get invoked if a system crashes and F reboots).  To clobber the SCB, you can do a $MOUNT/OVERRIDE=SHADOW, orE an $INITIALIZE, which writes a minimal file system but leaves most of @ the data untouched (but don't do INITIALIZE/ERASE or you'll have/ undone all the benefit of the BACKUP/PHYSICAL).-  7 Note that while a BACKUP/IMAGE is more intelligent than D BACKUP/PHYSICAL in terms of doing the right thing with regard to theC SCB (it will increment the Backup revision number in the SCB on the A output side, which would trigger a full copy), using BACKUP/IMAGEeE wouldn't help with full-copy performance, because it defragments, andl& thus completely rearranges, the data.): ----------------------------------------------------------: Keith Parris | parris <at> DECUServe <dot> decus <dot> org   ------------------------------   Date: 7 Jun 2002 07:55:34 -0700u1 From: keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com (Keith Parris) # Subject: Re: Shadow sets efficiencyn= Message-ID: <cf15391e.0206070655.7d489e37@posting.google.com>-  k "Marc Van Dyck" <marc.vandyck@skynet.be> wrote in message news:<3cf5df5e$0$6963$ba620e4c@news.skynet.be>...eK > Also, when initializing a new shadow set, is there a way to do it withoutQ% > having a shadow copy taking place ?e  E Starting with VMS version 7.3, you can now initialize all the membersiD of the shadowset at once, and avoid a full-copy afterward, by doing:  - $ INITIALIZE/SHADOW=(disk1,disk2,disk3) label   ? When you subsequently mount these disks into a virtual unit, no>$ full-copy operation will take place.  E Note that to avoid a performance impact on the next full merge (as ithE fixes up all the unallocated areas that probably still differ becauseiF $INITIALIZE didn't touch them), it is recommended that you include theD /ERASE qualifer to set all the unallocated area to the same value onD all disks.  Copying a bunch of files to the shadowset until it fillsE up, and then deleting them, would also accomplish the same purpose -- + writing all the blocks to identical values.:: ----------------------------------------------------------: Keith Parris | parris <at> DECUServe <dot> decus <dot> org   ------------------------------  + Date: Fri, 07 Jun 2002 17:02:51 +0100 (MET)f9 From: Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>.# Subject: Re: Shadow sets efficiency ; Message-ID: <01KINN07NZXA96WQWC@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>d  I > Instead, it does a read, a compare, and if the comparison fails, writescH > to the target disk and then loops around and does the read and compare  > again, until it gets a match.   = Is the loop just for error detection or also to allow for the A possibility that the source disk got written to there during this:, operation---or is that handled differently?   E > So on a disk with different data, that implies a read, a compare, av@ > write, and another read and a compare for each segment of dataF > (presently Shadowing deals with 127-block segments).  If the data isI > identical, only the read and compare are needed (with just a few of theMI > more-complex operations in the few areas where the data might differ). .  I Using BACKUP/PHYSICAL would imply read and write (during the backup) and iA a read and compare during the shadow copy.  So the difference is >= essentially just a compare.  Is this significant?  Or is the nB BACKUP/PHYSICAL faster with reads and writes than the shadow copy?  G > an $INITIALIZE, which writes a minimal file system but leaves most ofcB > the data untouched (but don't do INITIALIZE/ERASE or you'll have1 > undone all the benefit of the BACKUP/PHYSICAL).   E What does INITIALIZE/ERASE actually do?  HELP seems to imply that it  @ sets a flag so that DELETE/ERASE becomes the default instead of H DELETE/NOERASE: "In effect, each file on the volume is erased when it isE deleted".  This sounds like nothing is deleted during the INITIALIZE y5 itself.  Is this correct, or is the HELP confusing?  n   ------------------------------   Date: 7 Jun 2002 01:51 CDT' From: carl@gerg.tamu.edu (Carl Perkins)s% Subject: Re: STARTUP stops after bootg, Message-ID: <7JUN200201513000@gerg.tamu.edu>  1 Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@Free.fr> writes...   }briggs@encompasserve.org wrote:Z }> In article <3CFF8DE0.FC0C7FF1@Free.fr>, Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@Free.fr> writes:S }> > yes, I did, but this parameter is volatile, isn't it? Or it should be recordedi' }> > in one of the systartup_Px params.: }> O9 }> There is no such thing as a volatile SYSGEN parameter.e } 7 }set/startup at console prompt is a sysgen parameter???  }  }D.c  E It isn't the console prompt - by the time you get to where you can dolF that you are already in VMS (which is why the prompt is "SYSBOOT>", or2 whatever, and not just ">>>" when you enter that).  ( Other than that it is pretty much "yes".   $ MCR SYSGEN HELP SET/STARTUPk   SETu  
   /STARTUP  A        Names the site-independent startup command procedure to bev@        associated with a parameter file for subsequent bootstrap        operations.  G Note that it says "subsequent bootstrap operations" not "this bootstrapu@ operation". The value is stored by sysgen, it just hasn't got anA associated parameter name. They could have just as easily made it46 a normal parameter you could get at via something like $ MCR SYSGEN SHOW STARTUPi> but they didn't - they made it use a different syntax than the other parameters:  $ MCR SYSGEN SHOW/STARTUPs  H It is still saved in the parameter file along with the other parameters:  M Dump of file SYS$SYSROOT:[SYSEXE]ALPHAVMSSYS.PAR;2 on  7-JUN-2002 01:39:25.98e9 File ID (25608,7,0)   End of file block 16 / Allocated 18t  3 Virtual block number 1 (00000001), 512 (0200) bytesi  <  52415453 3A4D4554 53595324 53595316 .SYS$SYSTEM:STAR 000000<  00000000 00000000 004D4F43 2E505554 TUP.COM......... 000010  H As you can see, it is the very first thing stored in the parameter file.   --- Carl   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 07 Jun 2002 14:52:09 +0200 - From: Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@Free.fr>a% Subject: Re: STARTUP stops after boot ' Message-ID: <3D00AC78.1C9741B9@Free.fr>    ok.uN I was confused, because SYSBOOT and SYSGEN are two different processes but useF the same ALPHAVMSSYS.PAR, that I did not remember (AXPI&DS 1.5 p1208). Merci.   D.   Carl Perkins wrote:  > G > It isn't the console prompt - by the time you get to where you can doRH > that you are already in VMS (which is why the prompt is "SYSBOOT>", or4 > whatever, and not just ">>>" when you enter that). > * > Other than that it is pretty much "yes". >  > $ MCR SYSGEN HELP SET/STARTUP- >  > SET- >  >   /STARTUP > C >        Names the site-independent startup command procedure to be?B >        associated with a parameter file for subsequent bootstrap >        operations. > I > Note that it says "subsequent bootstrap operations" not "this bootstraplB > operation". The value is stored by sysgen, it just hasn't got anC > associated parameter name. They could have just as easily made it 8 > a normal parameter you could get at via something like > $ MCR SYSGEN SHOW STARTUPt@ > but they didn't - they made it use a different syntax than the > other parameters:h > $ MCR SYSGEN SHOW/STARTUP- > J > It is still saved in the parameter file along with the other parameters: > O > Dump of file SYS$SYSROOT:[SYSEXE]ALPHAVMSSYS.PAR;2 on  7-JUN-2002 01:39:25.98g; > File ID (25608,7,0)   End of file block 16 / Allocated 18D > 5 > Virtual block number 1 (00000001), 512 (0200) bytesd > > >  52415453 3A4D4554 53595324 53595316 .SYS$SYSTEM:STAR 000000> >  00000000 00000000 004D4F43 2E505554 TUP.COM......... 000010 > J > As you can see, it is the very first thing stored in the parameter file.   ------------------------------   Date: 7 Jun 2002 07:49:20 -0600r- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)s- Subject: Re: TCP socket communication queries 3 Message-ID: <Xiu23SgqLkA0@eisner.encompasserve.org>0  _ In article <873e96d6.0206061641.7f070a32@posting.google.com>, wingwong@witty.com (wing) writes:R > G > Is there any maximum limit of the bytes read in the read(int d, void*r5 > buf, int bytes) in the the socket read call in VMS?a >   F    Yes.  And if you want to write portable code you will loop over theH    read() until you get all the bytes you want.  Why do you think read()    returns the length read?z   ------------------------------   Date: 7 Jun 2002 12:39:01 GMTo1 From: bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Y Subject: Re: The Press and the IA-64 Port (was Re: Another analyst says VMS port won't be , Message-ID: <adq9h5$2uva$1@info.cs.uofs.edu>  ; In article <Xns92257D28DB274LenNewsgroupID@16.105.248.153>,O3  Leonard Fehskens <len.fehskens@compaq.com> writes:r |> gG |> Because your definition of proprietary is not the fundamental issue. I |> It doesn't matter if the operating system has only one supplier.  WhattG |> matters is that the boxes, and the desired applications that run on m6 |> those boxes, are available from multiple suppliers.  I And just how many different companies are currently releasing versions ofhH Windows2K and Office2K??  BestBuy and Sam's Club are just resellers likeI Island and any number of otherAlpha/VMS resellers.  When one looks at the8K reality of it, Microsoft products are just as proprietary as OpenVMS.  It'ssH just that apparently the people at the helm of Compaq (and now HP) don't- understand enough about reality to know that.    bill r   -- xJ Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   a   ------------------------------   Date: 7 Jun 2002 04:19:38 -0700t$ From: dwebb@lexmark.com (Derek Webb) Subject: USB to parallel= Message-ID: <425b20b1.0206070319.39a70633@posting.google.com>i  F Can anybody tell me if there is a method of driving a USB printer from a parallel port?   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 07 Jun 2002 12:26:17 GMT ( From: "Rich Bjers" <RBjers@Cinci.RR.Com> Subject: Re: USB to parallel8 Message-ID: <JD1M8.19426$zh2.8596788@twister.neo.rr.com>  1 "Derek Webb" <dwebb@lexmark.com> wrote in messageD7 news:425b20b1.0206070319.39a70633@posting.google.com...7H > Can anybody tell me if there is a method of driving a USB printer from > a parallel port?  H I would suggest attaching the USB printer to a PC's running some OS thatL supports the Unix "lpd" demon and then create a TCPIP print queue on the VMS7 system to print to the PC print queue for that printer.r   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 07 Jun 2002 12:42:39 GMTd( From: "Rich Bjers" <RBjers@Cinci.RR.Com> Subject: Re: USB to parallel8 Message-ID: <3T1M8.19473$zh2.8605757@twister.neo.rr.com>  3 "Rich Bjers" <RBjers@Cinci.RR.Com> wrote in message#2 news:JD1M8.19426$zh2.8596788@twister.neo.rr.com...3 > "Derek Webb" <dwebb@lexmark.com> wrote in messagea9 > news:425b20b1.0206070319.39a70633@posting.google.com...aJ > > Can anybody tell me if there is a method of driving a USB printer from > > a parallel port? >oJ > I would suggest attaching the USB printer to a PC's running some OS thatJ > supports the Unix "lpd" demon and then create a TCPIP print queue on the VMSa9 > system to print to the PC print queue for that printer.o >  >   J I did a quick search of the internet for "lpd" and found the following web site:n  3 http://www.networkinstruments.com/html/niprint.htmls  J Take a look and see if this will do what you want;  There is a 21-day demo available at the web site.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 07 Jun 2002 13:45:13 +0100r( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1> Subject: Re: USB to parallel) Message-ID: <3D00AAD9.57AA7BC9@127.0.0.1>    Derek Webb wrote:W > H > Can anybody tell me if there is a method of driving a USB printer from > a parallel port?  C Get a parallel to USB adapter? Arguably, the printer can power thiso+ bi-directional device. A hub may also work.   A I fail to see what this has to do with VMS, but I'm also slightlylH baffled as I own a Lexmark printer which is capable of both Parallel and? USB communication, so I'd also expect you could find the answeru internally!: -- s( Regards, Nic Clews CSC Computer Sciences nclews at csc dot comN   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 07 Jun 2002 13:24:52 GMTs1 From: LESLIE@JRLVAX.HOUSTON.RR.COM (Jerry Leslie)i Subject: Re: USB to parallel< Message-ID: <Eu2M8.167499$9F5.8958274@typhoon.austin.rr.com>  ' Rich Bjers (RBjers@Cinci.RR.Com) wrote:h3 : "Derek Webb" <dwebb@lexmark.com> wrote in messagea9 : news:425b20b1.0206070319.39a70633@posting.google.com...-J : > Can anybody tell me if there is a method of driving a USB printer from : > a parallel port? : J : I would suggest attaching the USB printer to a PC's running some OS thatK : supports the Unix "lpd" demon and then create a TCPIP print queue on the n= : VMS system to print to the PC print queue for that printer.h :  :  Mocha has a Win32 LPD package:     http://www.mochasoft.dk/  7 Here's the DCL that define my VAXStation's print queue:   $    $ run sys$system:ucx$lprsetup.exe    add    SYS$PRINT	    remoteb          d700b    text       q    y    y    HP 960cse Printer      y    y    D The blank lines are important. 'ds700' is the name of the Windows PC( that has the Mocha LPD server installed.    H --Jerry Leslie   leslie@clio.rice.edu  (my opinions are strictly my own)9   Note: leslie@jrlvax.houston.rr.com is invalid for emailm   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 07 Jun 2002 15:53:16 +0200f From: Dirk Munk <munk@home.nl> Subject: Re: USB to parallel& Message-ID: <3D00BACC.6030807@home.nl>   Nic Clews wrote: > Derek Webb wrote:  > H >>Can anybody tell me if there is a method of driving a USB printer from >>a parallel port? >  > ! > Get a parallel to USB adapter? i  N I doubt if something like that exists. The other way around (parallel printer  from USB port on host), sure.o  $ Arguably, the printer can power this- > bi-directional device. A hub may also work.l > . > I fail to see what this has to do with VMS,   R How about using the parallel port on a VMS workstation to print to a USB printer ?   > but I'm also slightly J > baffled as I own a Lexmark printer which is capable of both Parallel andA > USB communication, so I'd also expect you could find the answert
 > internally!t   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 07 Jun 2002 07:48:43 -0700 + From: "Barry Treahy, Jr." <Treahy@mmaz.com>d Subject: Re: USB to parallel' Message-ID: <3D00C7CB.2030309@mmaz.com>c   Derek Webb wrote:n  G >Can anybody tell me if there is a method of driving a USB printer froma >a parallel port?y >eH Belkin has USB to Parallel convertors that I believe are bidirectional.   Perhaps you can start there...t   Barryi   >. >  >  c >t   -- t  @ Barry Treahy, Jr  *  Midwest Microwave  *  Vice President & CIO   A E-mail: Treahy@mmaz.com * Phone: 480/314-1320 * FAX: 480/661-7028J   ------------------------------   Date: 7 Jun 2002 01:01:06 -0700o$ From: spammitplease@yahoo.co.in (Ab) Subject: VMS Monitoring a User< Message-ID: <9f100812.0206070001.9ffd7ac@posting.google.com>   Hi AllC   We have OpenVMS 6.2 .. want to monitor a user for the commands hei	 executes.vC  We have a problem with some privileged user logging in and killinghE other logins (other users logged in are automatically logged out). We A want to monitor that user and create logs of the commands that he D executes with time information. Is there any VMS utility that allows us to do this.  Thanks in Advance     Ab   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 07 Jun 2002 09:25:23 +0100A( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1>" Subject: Re: VMS Monitoring a User) Message-ID: <3D006DF3.5671FABD@127.0.0.1>o  	 Ab wrote:r >  > Hi AllE >   We have OpenVMS 6.2 .. want to monitor a user for the commands heC > executes.dE >  We have a problem with some privileged user logging in and killingmG > other logins (other users logged in are automatically logged out). WetC > want to monitor that user and create logs of the commands that hehF > executes with time information. Is there any VMS utility that allows > us to do this.  = Commercial products are available. Try www.pointsecure.com or  www.paston-chase.co.uk (Iris) 6 (Paston Chase site seems to need a user/password :-( )  G As a first step you could enable image accounting, and/or you could seta< the AUDIT login flag for all privileged users. By process ofE elimination, you should be able to find out who was doing what at theo time the processes were killed.o   -- l( Regards, Nic Clews CSC Computer Sciences nclews at csc dot comi   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 07 Jun 2002 05:19:23 -0400S- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>f" Subject: Re: VMS Monitoring a User, Message-ID: <3D007A92.EA34CFFA@videotron.ca>  	 Ab wrote:sE >  We have a problem with some privileged user logging in and killing-G > other logins (other users logged in are automatically logged out). We<C > want to monitor that user and create logs of the commands that he " > executes with time information.   J Wasn't there a DECUS utility, I think it was called PHOTO that did that ?   N Does the user always use the same terminal/computer to access the machine ? ItN might be as simple as putting a tap on his serial line and sending the data toN another port to which you set host/DTE/log to to record the commands he sends.  N You could also use ETHERMON utility to capture ethernet traffic coming from or to his computer.  < If he telnets into VMS, you could also use TCPTRACE utility.  8 You may also look into MC AUTHORIZE MOD user /FLAG=AUDIT  K haven't used that in a long long time though. Not sure it records the exactiJ commands (more like the files acessed and ikages activated but last time I used it was microvms 4.7 )   ------------------------------  * Date: Fri, 7 Jun 2002 10:45:28 +0000 (UTC)% From: John Forkosh <john@invalid.com> " Subject: Re: VMS Monitoring a User, Message-ID: <adq2s8$pb8$1@reader1.panix.com>  % Ab <spammitplease@yahoo.co.in> wrote:o : Hi AllE :   We have OpenVMS 6.2 .. want to monitor a user for the commands hem : executes.aE :  We have a problem with some privileged user logging in and killinguG : other logins (other users logged in are automatically logged out). WeaC : want to monitor that user and create logs of the commands that he-F : executes with time information. Is there any VMS utility that allows : us to do this. :  Thanks in Advance :   Ab  
 You could tryS      show/proc/cont/all/id=???, (where you can get id from, e.g., show sys).6 That would be okay for visually keeping track of user,4 but I'm not sure how successfully you could redirect8 its output (e.g., by assigning sys$output before running it) to a log file. --  > John Forkosh  ( mailto:  j@f.com  where j=john and f=forkosh )   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 07 Jun 2002 12:31:30 +0100t( From: Martyn <mpattKNICKERS@bigfoot.com>" Subject: Re: VMS Monitoring a User* Message-ID: <3D009992.2050000@bigfoot.com>  	 Ab wrote:r   >Hi AlloD >  We have OpenVMS 6.2 .. want to monitor a user for the commands he
 >executes.D > We have a problem with some privileged user logging in and killingF >other logins (other users logged in are automatically logged out). WeB >want to monitor that user and create logs of the commands that heE >executes with time information. Is there any VMS utility that allows  >us to do this.t > Thanks in Advances >t >  Abu >  c >aG You could write a bit of DCL which goes into ANAL/SYS periodically and  I does a "clue proc/recall" (I think that's the command - it's been a long lE time) on all the priv'd accounts which will show you the contents of ID their recall  buffer, depending on how many commands they issue you H should be able to get away with doing this every 5 minutes or so. Don't H forget that if they're clever and are trying to cover their tracks then H they could be killing the processes from within a job, and not from the 
 command line.T     -- s, Remove KNICKERS before replying by Email ;-)   ------------------------------   Date: 7 Jun 2002 04:13:59 -0700-% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>0" Subject: Re: VMS Monitoring a User( Message-ID: <adq4hn0v7o@drn.newsguy.com>  5 In article <3D006DF3.5671FABD@127.0.0.1>, Nic says.... >>
 >Ab wrote: >> i	 >> Hi AllrF >>   We have OpenVMS 6.2 .. want to monitor a user for the commands he >> executes.F >>  We have a problem with some privileged user logging in and killingH >> other logins (other users logged in are automatically logged out). WeD >> want to monitor that user and create logs of the commands that heG >> executes with time information. Is there any VMS utility that allowsr >> us to do this.r >t> >Commercial products are available. Try www.pointsecure.com or >www.paston-chase.co.uk (Iris)7 >(Paston Chase site seems to need a user/password :-( )O  ) And Peek and Spy from Networking Dynamicso* http://www.networkingdynamics.com/Peek.htm    H >As a first step you could enable image accounting, and/or you could set= >the AUDIT login flag for all privileged users. By process of F >elimination, you should be able to find out who was doing what at the  >time the processes were killed. >b >-- ) >Regards, Nic Clews CSC Computer Sciencesu >nclews at csc dot com   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 07 Jun 2002 07:43:18 -0400 ( From: David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>" Subject: Re: VMS Monitoring a User, Message-ID: <3D009C56.9030600@tsoft-inc.com>  ' > Ab <spammitplease@yahoo.co.in> wrote:s
 > : Hi AllG > :   We have OpenVMS 6.2 .. want to monitor a user for the commands hen
 > : executes.fG > :  We have a problem with some privileged user logging in and killingAI > : other logins (other users logged in are automatically logged out). WefE > : want to monitor that user and create logs of the commands that he(H > : executes with time information. Is there any VMS utility that allows > : us to do this. > :  Thanks in Advance    I I seem to remember several third party tools that will do what you want. eL CONTROL, possibly now sold by RAXCO, not sure, and Peek and Spy, forget the  vendor name.  4 I've never user either, cannot comment on their use.   Dave   ------------------------------   Date: 7 Jun 2002 07:38:10 -0600F- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)O" Subject: Re: VMS Monitoring a User3 Message-ID: <oBr50V0rowPm@eisner.encompasserve.org>t  c In article <9f100812.0206070001.9ffd7ac@posting.google.com>, spammitplease@yahoo.co.in (Ab) writes:  > Hi AllE >   We have OpenVMS 6.2 .. want to monitor a user for the commands hei > executes.mE >  We have a problem with some privileged user logging in and killingtG > other logins (other users logged in are automatically logged out). WeLC > want to monitor that user and create logs of the commands that hesF > executes with time information. Is there any VMS utility that allows > us to do this.  B You have received a lot of good technical suggestions from others,C but let me add a non-technical suggestion regarding the compositiono% of the team you have working on this.u  E Perhaps the most important member of your team would be the personnelsD director.  You have given privilege (a very serious step) to someoneF who will not own up to the fact that they were the one who deleted theG processes of other users.  As soon as you find the culprit, they shouldUB be FIRED (presuming you tried the obvious step of _asking_ all the# privileged users who was doing it).S   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 07 Jun 2002 14:47:49 +020029 From: Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com>t" Subject: Re: VMS Monitoring a User' Message-ID: <3D00AB75.CE2EF3D7@aaa.com>5  < In article <9f100812.0206070001.9ffd7ac@posting.google.com>,)    spammitplease@yahoo.co.in (Ab) writes:     >We want to monitor that user...  1 So, you *do* know who this (privileged) user is ?-* If that's the case, what's the problem ???  ; Or am I reading to much into (part of) the sentence above ?j   Jan-Erik Sderholm.m   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 07 Jun 2002 13:05:24 GMT , From: "Ed Dennison" <ed.dennison@compaq.com>" Subject: Re: VMS Monitoring a User1 Message-ID: <oc2M8.6$xE1.214142@news.cpqcorp.net>o  I You could have a look at SYS$EXAMPLES:LOGGER.C. It's an example of how toeB capture the terminal session using the VMS Pseudo Terminal driver.           Ed Dennisonv  1 "Ab" <spammitplease@yahoo.co.in> wrote in messaget6 news:9f100812.0206070001.9ffd7ac@posting.google.com... > Hi AllE >   We have OpenVMS 6.2 .. want to monitor a user for the commands het > executes.fE >  We have a problem with some privileged user logging in and killingsG > other logins (other users logged in are automatically logged out). WeiC > want to monitor that user and create logs of the commands that he.F > executes with time information. Is there any VMS utility that allows > us to do this. >  Thanks in Advance >s >   Ab   ------------------------------   Date: 7 Jun 2002 08:40:45 -0700s; From: jnchambl@texaschildrenshospital.org (Jesse Chambless) " Subject: Re: VMS Monitoring a User= Message-ID: <d92c63cc.0206070740.53b30363@posting.google.com>n  @ You could also change the login.com procedure to perform a set hF 0/log=logfilename.  This would make the user log in twice however.  IfE you want to be sneaky, then look to some product such as PointSecure.o    h spammitplease@yahoo.co.in (Ab) wrote in message news:<9f100812.0206070001.9ffd7ac@posting.google.com>... > Hi AllE >   We have OpenVMS 6.2 .. want to monitor a user for the commands hel > executes.hE >  We have a problem with some privileged user logging in and killingkG > other logins (other users logged in are automatically logged out). WegC > want to monitor that user and create logs of the commands that hevF > executes with time information. Is there any VMS utility that allows > us to do this. >  Thanks in Advance >  >   Ab   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 07 Jun 2002 16:08:16 GMT40 From: "warren sander" <warren.sander@compaq.com>" Subject: Re: VMS Monitoring a User0 Message-ID: <QT4M8.9$Gz1.45101@news.cpqcorp.net>  K You could try getcmd ftp://ftp.process.com/vms-freeware/fileserv/getcmd.zip 6 which will dump the command recall buffer of a process   -warrenl --B ------------------------------------------------------------------6 Warren Sander                        OpenVMS MarketingG Hewlett-Packard Company              Work:  warren.sander@remove.hp.comeL 200 Forest Street MR01-3/J1          Personal: sander@remove.ma.ultranet.com3 Marlboro, MA 01752                   (508) 467-4875e5    My opinions are my own and I only speak for myself ,          Read http://www.openvms.compaq.com/B ------------------------------------------------------------------    1 "Ab" <spammitplease@yahoo.co.in> wrote in message 6 news:9f100812.0206070001.9ffd7ac@posting.google.com... > Hi AllE >   We have OpenVMS 6.2 .. want to monitor a user for the commands he" > executes.iE >  We have a problem with some privileged user logging in and killing.G > other logins (other users logged in are automatically logged out). We2C > want to monitor that user and create logs of the commands that hemF > executes with time information. Is there any VMS utility that allows > us to do this. >  Thanks in Advance >  >   Ab   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 07 Jun 2002 06:17:24 GMTc$ From: "Upadhyaya" <ups@hotvoice.com> Subject: Re: xtoolkit error 1 Message-ID: <UdYL8.5$Hu1.396402@news.cpqcorp.net>u  F Please execute the following command to get DECterm (after setting the	 display).w $ create/term/detach   Regards,	 Upadhyaya    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 07 Jun 2002 12:58:35 +0100 ( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1> Subject: Re: xtoolkit errorr) Message-ID: <3D009FEB.56795F77@127.0.0.1>l   rob merritt wrote: > G > hi I am trying to set up decw on my vaxstation 4000/60 using xcursion1
 > on my PCE > , I read the info in the vmsFaq and got this far ,motif has a valid H > license, all the right symbols and logicals are defined but her is theE > out put I get from running a decw$terminal? any Ideas what should Ia > tryk > 5 > $ set display/create/node=192.168.0.123/trans=TCPIPl" > $ r sys$system:decw$TERMINAL.EXE5 > This is the Motif Version of the DECterm controller - > X Toolkit Error: Can't open display: _WSA4:d' > %DWT-F-NOMSG, Message number 03AB8204,     Try running decw$examples:icoc  , The error messages will be more informative. -- -( Regards, Nic Clews CSC Computer Sciences nclews at csc dot comS   ------------------------------   Date: 7 Jun 2002 06:48:26 -0700 1 From: keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com (Keith Parris) 8 Subject: Re: [Q] 100 Mb networking options for Alpha 200< Message-ID: <cf15391e.0206070548.fcd9cbe@posting.google.com>  q dundas@caltech.edu (John A. Dundas III) wrote in message news:<dundas-3005021255190001@dundas-mac.caltech.edu>... D > On an AlphaStation 200 (4/233 if that matters), are the DEFPA FDDIA > adaptors compatible?  I'd like to find a DEFPA-D?, if possible.c > > > Along the same line, is the DE600 (FastEthernet) compatible?  A I used a pair of DEFPA's in each of a couple of AlphaStation 200s:E (linked by a couple of pairs of GIGAswitches with 130-mile DS-3 linksi@ between them) to form what probably holds the record for the the< tiniest disaster-tolerant cluster.  So I know those do work.  F I haven't tried a DE600 myself, but expect the odds would be good thatA it would work.  But DE500s are also available at very low cost (ILD bought some new ones for $10 each a few months ago, from a pointer I found here).  E Because the hardware was so similar, I often used the AlphaServer 300mE Supported Options List from the Compaq website to give me a good idea0; of what hardware would likely work in my AlphaStation 200s.a: ----------------------------------------------------------: Keith Parris | parris <at> DECUServe <dot> decus <dot> org   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2002.314 ************************ to USB adapter? i  N I doubt if something like that exists. The other way around (parallel printer  from USB port on host), sure.o  $ Arguably, the prink    k    k    k    k    k    k    k    k    k    k    k    k    k    k    k    k    k    k    k    k    k    k    k    k    k    k    k    k    k    k    k    k    k    k    k    k    k    k    k    k    k    k    k    k    k    k    k    k    k    k    k    k    k    k    k    k    k    k    k    k    k    k    k    