1 INFO-VAX	Sat, 15 Jun 2002	Volume 2002 : Issue 329       Contents:< RE: "We stay with VMS because we have forgotten that we have< Re: "We stay with VMS because we have forgotten that we have< Re: "We stay with VMS because we have forgotten that we have< Re: "We stay with VMS because we have forgotten that we have@ Re: "We stay with VMS because we have forgotten that we have it"@ Re: "We stay with VMS because we have forgotten that we have it"@ Re: "We stay with VMS because we have forgotten that we have it"# Re: A [departure from] VMS Disaster  Affinity and Itanic & Re: Alpha to ia64: where is the issue? Apache 2.0 and Tomcat 4.0 # Re: Carly was here in ZKO yesterday # Re: Carly was here in ZKO yesterday # Re: Carly was here in ZKO yesterday # Re: Carly was here in ZKO yesterday # Re: Carly was here in ZKO yesterday  COE, ODS-5 and Spiralog. Re: COE, ODS-5 and Spiralog. Re: COE, ODS-5 and Spiralog. Re: COE, ODS-5 and Spiralog.7 Re: Compaq Enterprise Directory Services for e-Business 7 Re: Compaq Enterprise Directory Services for e-Business  Re: Could linux become VMS?  RE: Could linux become VMS?  Re: Could linux become VMS?  Re: Could linux become VMS?  Re: Could linux become VMS?  Re: Could linux become VMS?  Re: Could linux become VMS?  Re: Could linux become VMS?  Re: Could linux become VMS? : DCL Puzzle: Can you produce this DIRECTORY command output?> Re: DCL Puzzle: Can you produce this DIRECTORY command output? Re: DECWindows "hang"  Re: doubts about using edit/TPU  Re: doubts about using edit/TPU  Re: doubts about using edit/TPU @ RE: Fastest CD-R or CD-RW capabilities for burning under OpenVMS@ Re: Fastest CD-R or CD-RW capabilities for burning under OpenVMS@ Re: Fastest CD-R or CD-RW capabilities for burning under OpenVMS% Re: Interesting approach to marketing % Re: Interesting approach to marketing ? Re: Interesting ZDnet post about Tandem -- Can VMS do the same? ? Re: Interesting ZDnet post about Tandem -- Can VMS do the same? ? Re: Interesting ZDnet post about Tandem -- Can VMS do the same? 2 Re: Mail masquerading using Compaq TCP/IP services2 Re: Mail masquerading using Compaq TCP/IP services Re: MOZILLA and CSWB, RE: My conversation with Linus about VMS ...B Re: New picture virus threatens data ... better dust off VMS mail!B Re: New picture virus threatens data ... better dust off VMS mail!B Re: New picture virus threatens data ... better dust off VMS mail!B Re: New picture virus threatens data ... better dust off VMS mail! Re: Open Letter to HP / OpenVMS books (was Re: Could linux become VMS?)  Re: OpenVMS Mailing Lists?8 Re: Request for path balancing (Was: Re: Carly was here)" Re: rooted devices and /TRANS=CONC" Re: rooted devices and /TRANS=CONC" Re: rooted devices and /TRANS=CONC2 Re: SSH v2 (was Re: OpenVMS, Volume Desktop OS...) Re: unix history VMS advertising suggestion Re: VMS advertising suggestion Re: VMS advertising suggestion4 Re: VMS as a example of disaster and fault tolerance4 Re: VMS as a example of disaster and fault tolerance4 Re: VMS as a example of disaster and fault tolerance4 Re: VMS as a example of disaster and fault tolerance4 RE: VMS as a example of disaster and fault tolerance volume not software enabled  Re: volume not software enabled  __asm__ in DEC CXX Re: __asm__ in DEC CXX  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2002 14:16:13 -0400 * From: WILLIAM WEBB <WWEBB1@email.usps.gov>E Subject: RE: "We stay with VMS because we have forgotten that we have - Message-ID: <0033000068110524000002L042*@MHS>   H =0ALove is wonderful, but sending an interviewer and film crew to film = for ! commercials would be even better.    :^)    WWWebb     -----Original Message-----/ From: Info-VAX-Request@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNET # Sent: Friday, June 14, 2002 2:02 PM B To: Webb, William W Raleigh, NC; Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNETE Subject: RE: "We stay with VMS because we have forgotten that we have     9 I have never met this customer, but I think I am in love.    Thanks Didier,   sue   : "Didier Morandi" <Didier.Morandi@Free.fr> wrote in message! news:3D0A26BB.5E9B16FF@Free.fr... H > I met a VMS customer today in Toulouse. Shadow temperature: 35?. They=  H > manufacture wooden furniture. They have a cluster of two 4410 running=  H > FORTRAN-77/PDP-1/RSX images in AME mode and some other migrated progr= ams. ThisH > cluster drives tools-machines (5 axis, cutting machines, etc) and col= lects  dataD > from the ground for management, statistics, etc. It also buils the	 inventory E > documents to manufacture the thousand of pieces they build, then it  prepares the- > loading of the trucks for optimal delivery.  > H > He said: "Why I'll stay with DEC? Because I haven't rebooted my clust= er since H > many years, because we have just forgotten all about our computers wh= ich  run and H > run and run, because the last hardware intervention from DEC (he stil= l 	 says DEC) H > was in april 1994 (he still has the blue Field Service folder with tw= o  pages H > inside, since 1982) for a battery to change and also because we have = in our H > building some VTs connected, via RS232, 300 meters from the computer = room whenH > the spec says 30 meters. This is why we will not change. I hope that = one  day H > other Customers will discover the amazing quality of these products t= hat  the 4 . > years COMPAQ era fortunately did not alter". >  > It has been a pleasant day.  >  > D. > --4 >   ------------------------------------------------4 > MORANDI Consultants  http://Didier.Morandi.Free.fr2 >   19 chemin de la Butte, 31400 Toulouse, France.4 > Tel.: +33 (0)6 7983 6418 - Fax: +33 (0)5 6154 19284 > OpenVMS, APPLE, Computer Security, Migration plans5 > --------------------------------------------------=    ------------------------------  + Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2002 20:31:17 +0100 (MET) 9 From: Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> E Subject: Re: "We stay with VMS because we have forgotten that we have ; Message-ID: <01KIXMIT925S96WTPR@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>   I > Love is wonderful, but sending an interviewer and film crew to film for # > commercials would be even better.   4 The combination of the two would be staggering.  :-)  F Someone once mentioned in comp.os.vms an interesting remark along the I lines of "working with Dave Cutler at DEC was like being in a homoerotic   cowboy movie".  :-|   I More seriously, a commercial in which a customer says "we haven't bought  F anything from the vendor in 10 years" and the vendor says "that's the H kind of customers we like" would cast an interesting light on those who I sell quality products and those who sell just to make money.  Fade to an  I accountant who then announces that VMS is the most profitable product in   the vendor's portfolio.    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2002 21:24:24 +0200 - From: Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@Free.fr> E Subject: Re: "We stay with VMS because we have forgotten that we have ' Message-ID: <3D0A42E8.9155B944@Free.fr>    Phillip Helbig wrote:  >  ../.. J > More seriously, a commercial in which a customer says "we haven't boughtG > anything from the vendor in 10 years" and the vendor says "that's the I > kind of customers we like" would cast an interesting light on those who = > sell quality products and those who sell just to make money   P I still wear with my jeans a leather belt that I purchased in Spain in july 1973K (I remember very well the date because I was driving at that time an orange J Alpine Renault Berlinette V85, a few months before the speed limit came inP France (nov. 1973). I do not know the name of the shop who sold me this belt, ofJ course, but I would definitely come back to them to buy anything else if IO could. On the other hand, we can find today in gasoil stations thousand of toys O for kids "made in China" which have a MTBF of two days (more or less). So, when K I want to buy something, I first check the "made in..." label (mandatory in D France) and if I see that it comes from China, I just do not buy it.   D.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2002 19:23:01 -0400 ( From: David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>E Subject: Re: "We stay with VMS because we have forgotten that we have , Message-ID: <3D0A7AD5.8000008@tsoft-inc.com>   Phillip Helbig wrote:     K > More seriously, a commercial in which a customer says "we haven't bought  H > anything from the vendor in 10 years" and the vendor says "that's the J > kind of customers we like" would cast an interesting light on those who K > sell quality products and those who sell just to make money.  Fade to an  K > accountant who then announces that VMS is the most profitable product in   > the vendor's portfolio.  >     L There's a big problem with the above.  Now if the customer said "we haven't O bought new hardware from the vendor in 10 years, but do purchase maintenance",  # then they would be a good customer.   P It's a bit like living in a house.  You may own, or you may rent, but there are I ongoing costs, and these allow the house to continue to be there for you  P longterm.  A vendor needs revenues to continue to exist.  Really good customers K who understand this have no problem 'feeding' the vendor, because then the  9 vendor will be there when the customer really needs them.   Q If all VMS customers bought VMS 10 years ago, and then didn't 'feed' the vendor,  O I wonder what they'd buy next?  Sure wouldn't be VMS, which would have starved  	 to death.    Dave   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2002 18:09:38 GMT 2 From: "Sue Skonetski" <susan.skonetski@compaq.com>I Subject: Re: "We stay with VMS because we have forgotten that we have it" 2 Message-ID: <CjqO8.27$Sq6.588824@news.cpqcorp.net>  9 I have never met this customer, but I think I am in love.    Thanks Didier,   sue   : "Didier Morandi" <Didier.Morandi@Free.fr> wrote in message! news:3D0A26BB.5E9B16FF@Free.fr... G > I met a VMS customer today in Toulouse. Shadow temperature: 35. They G > manufacture wooden furniture. They have a cluster of two 4410 running K > FORTRAN-77/PDP-1/RSX images in AME mode and some other migrated programs.  ThisL > cluster drives tools-machines (5 axis, cutting machines, etc) and collects dataD > from the ground for management, statistics, etc. It also buils the	 inventory E > documents to manufacture the thousand of pieces they build, then it  prepares the- > loading of the trucks for optimal delivery.  > I > He said: "Why I'll stay with DEC? Because I haven't rebooted my cluster  since J > many years, because we have just forgotten all about our computers which run and H > run and run, because the last hardware intervention from DEC (he still	 says DEC) H > was in april 1994 (he still has the blue Field Service folder with two pages I > inside, since 1982) for a battery to change and also because we have in  our K > building some VTs connected, via RS232, 300 meters from the computer room  whenJ > the spec says 30 meters. This is why we will not change. I hope that one day J > other Customers will discover the amazing quality of these products that the 4 . > years COMPAQ era fortunately did not alter". >  > It has been a pleasant day.  >  > D. > --4 >   ------------------------------------------------4 > MORANDI Consultants  http://Didier.Morandi.Free.fr2 >   19 chemin de la Butte, 31400 Toulouse, France.4 > Tel.: +33 (0)6 7983 6418 - Fax: +33 (0)5 6154 19284 > OpenVMS, APPLE, Computer Security, Migration plans4 > --------------------------------------------------   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2002 20:26:14 +0200 - From: Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@Free.fr> I Subject: Re: "We stay with VMS because we have forgotten that we have it" ' Message-ID: <3D0A3546.E1ACA03B@Free.fr>   < So that everyone knows that I'm kidding, I'll reply in here:  $ With me, Sue? (or still with DEC :-)   D.   Sue Skonetski wrote: > ; > I have never met this customer, but I think I am in love.  >  > Thanks Didier,   ------------------------------  + Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2002 20:32:18 +0100 (MET) 9 From: Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> I Subject: Re: "We stay with VMS because we have forgotten that we have it" ; Message-ID: <01KIXMQ8ONPI96WTPR@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>   > > So that everyone knows that I'm kidding, I'll reply in here: > & > With me, Sue? (or still with DEC :-)   With the customer, of course.    ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 15 Jun 2002 01:36:51 GMT 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> , Subject: Re: A [departure from] VMS Disaster' Message-ID: <3D0A9DE8.7929B041@fsi.net>    Sue Skonetski wrote: >  > John,  >   > Do you mind if I forward this?  
 Need you ask?    --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 15 Jun 2002 04:48:53 GMT * From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> Subject: Affinity and ItanicB Message-ID: <VGzO8.248376$Gs.21289426@bin5.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>  K When mentioning the infamous 'affinity' program just now, it reminded me of ? just how much history seems to be repeating itself with Itanic.   L When Microsoft came out with NT the conventional wisdom was that the days ofJ other mid-range OSs were numbered, with not all that many bits required toJ express said number.  DEC quaked in its boots, VMS rolled over and exposed: its belly in submission, and the world waited expectantly.  K And 9 years later it's still waiting.  The vendors (IBM, Sun, HP) who stuck F by their guns and continued to compete have done pretty well over thatI period of time, while DEC is no more (nor even is the company that bought L it) and SGI, though still arguably alive, got badly damaged by its temporaryL conversion to the Church of Redmond (yes, part of that damage was related toJ its accompanying hardware commitment to Itanic, but a good deal was caused* by its embrace of NT 32-bit workstations).  I Now along comes Itanic.  While NT was actually a semi-credible product at L first release (at least considering what first releases tend to be, and withK no foreknowledge of the problems that would later ensue trying to *keep* it E semi-credible while shoveling on large additional servings of Windows G topping), Itanic was a complete dog even after having spent 3 - 4 years J longer in the oven than originally promised.  Nonetheless, long before theF first prototype Itanic hardware existed HP and SGI laid down their ownH processor architectures before it, and then even after the first releaseF proved to be a disaster Compaq put the best architecture of all on theL sacrificial altar (and it makes one wonder whether this was at least in partL *because* Merced was such a pig and thus so desperately needed some dramatic. kind of public commitment to keep hope alive).  L This time, however, there's much less uncertainty about where Itanic will beH over the next three years than there was with NT:  it's going absolutelyL nowhere after McKinley, save for process shrinks, until at least 2005.  That? was clear even a year ago when Alpha was sacrificed, as was the 7 already-declining performance expectation for McKinley.   I Of course, there could still be a surprise or two in store.  For example, D The Inquirer has made at least two references recently to the 1.5 MBF McKinley cache (and to 3 MB in Madison next year):  a 1.5 MB cache wasK reported a few months ago as the amount associated with the 900 MHz version K of McKinley (the 1 GHz version having twice as much, with 6 MB in Madison), K so while it's possible that Mike is merely confused it's also possible that B McKinley may *still* be having problems reaching even 1 GHz and/orL sufficient heat-dissipation issues that some of its cache must be disabled -L but if Intel meets its again-deferred launch date we should know next month.  B Will the same things that happened to DEC when it bowed before theI 'inevitable' NT domination happen to HP, while IBM and Sun win (again) by I sticking to their own proven architectures (and perhaps sticking a toe or H three into AMD's as well)?  Those with a vested interest in HP's successJ aren't likely to think so, and one of the major reasons that 'conventionalG wisdom' is such an oxymoron is that it so often fails to be informed by 
 experience...e   - bill   ------------------------------    Date: 14 Jun 2002 15:37:14 -0600+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young)a/ Subject: Re: Alpha to ia64: where is the issue?w3 Message-ID: <baeBbzBiy+4k@eisner.encompasserve.org>e   In article <ae75l4$7hp$2@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <andrew_nospam.harrison_remove_this@sun#.com> writes: >  >  > Rob Young wrote: >  >> In article <BE56C50EA024184DAF48F0B9A47F5CF4023D9154@kaoexc01.americas.cpqcorp.net>, "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@hp.com> writes:l >>  	 >>>David,  >>>r >>> H >>>>>>Of course, the problem there is WhineBloze's nasty little habit of >>>>>>J >>>assuming it can write a "harmless" signature to (i.e., trash the zerothD >>>block of) every disk it sees, unless this is finally corrected by >>>then.<<<E >>>rJ >>>As Rob mentioned, in a SAN you can disable an OS from seeing devices onC >>>other OS's by either using zoning or something called "selectiveeH >>>presentation" (enable specific devices for access by only servers you >>>designate). >>>VH >>>While there are advantages and disadvantages to both approaches, both5 >>>ensure that the concern you raise does not happen.  > F >> 	In Compaq's case, they don't have the large port count - 4 in factA >> 	on HSV (fibre ports from storage box to switch, for instance  E >> 	Hitachi in their Lightning series has 32 fibre ports, IIRC.  EMC  D >> 	in the 8430 has up to 16 fibre ports, not sure how many ports on5 >> 	the 8730 but wouldn't be surprised if it was 32).a >> i >  > 7 > The 8830 supports 96 (you may not need this number toi0 > run out of throughput through the box though). >   : 	Which reminds me that the 8430 number is in error.  Newer5 	4-port cards means it can have up to 32 fibre ports.e  B 	96 cards saturate?  Certainly wouldn't want a whole bunch of data? 	warehousing going on.  Peckish I/O , probably not.  But surely B 	a good point to show us a weakness when advertized as a strength. 	Another angle in the game.v   				RobO   ------------------------------    Date: 14 Jun 2002 15:56:33 -0600+ From: kuhrt@encompasserve.org (Marty Kuhrt)o" Subject: Apache 2.0 and Tomcat 4.03 Message-ID: <iMMT0Z8yn6of@eisner.encompasserve.org>   F Anyone have an idea when Apache 2.0 (CSWS) and Tomcat 4.0 (CSWS_JAVA)  will be available for VMS?   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2002 16:35:01 -0400u- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>t, Subject: Re: Carly was here in ZKO yesterday, Message-ID: <3D0A5375.6B86E287@videotron.ca>   Larry Kilgallen wrote:F > Unless, of course, the application was designed to be endian-neutral3 > from the start, such as by using ASN.1.  Few are.   F If you exclude stuff such as a TCPIP stack and system low level stuff,? wouldn't most commercial applications today be endian neutral ?e  H And if you have an application that transmits/receives binary stuff withM foreign systems, (instead of exchanging XML which is all text and this endianlL neutral), then the amount of code to change would not be that big since onlyG the receiving/sending routines would need to be changed to assemble the_ packets/records differently.  M Just how diofficult is it to port an Oracle application from HP-UX to Solaris N or vice-versa ? Doesn't Oracle do all the low level bit stuff on your behalf ?   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2002 21:14:18 GMT3* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>, Subject: Re: Carly was here in ZKO yesterdayB Message-ID: <K0tO8.170016$4i.14855719@bin2.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>  : "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message& news:3D0A5375.6B86E287@videotron.ca... > Larry Kilgallen wrote:H > > Unless, of course, the application was designed to be endian-neutral5 > > from the start, such as by using ASN.1.  Few are.a >eH > If you exclude stuff such as a TCPIP stack and system low level stuff,A > wouldn't most commercial applications today be endian neutral ?   J No reason in the world for them to be:  'most commercial applications' runD only on Wintel platforms, where there's absolutely no question about endianness.   H If you want to talk specifically about Tru64 (or VMS) applications, thenI whether they were designed to be endian-neutral would depend upon whethersC the developer had any reason to think s/he'd ever want to port themrI elsewhere.  For that matter, I suspect that in *any* platform environment H designing for endian-neutralness may be more the exception than the ruleL unless the developer knows up front that the application will need to run inG diverse settings.  And if the application has not been *designed* to be K endian-neutral, it requires at an absolute minimum scrupulous inspection of L every line of code plus fairly exhaustive testing before being trusted in anK other-endian environment - even though in *some* cases not a single line ofi  code may actually need changing.   - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2002 17:48:07 -0700u5 From: "Kenneth H. Fairfield" <My.Full.Name@intel.com>h, Subject: Re: Carly was here in ZKO yesterday) Message-ID: <3D0A8EC7.523B84ED@intel.com>p   Larry Kilgallen wrote:   > In article <3D09279D.F501DEE1@spam-be-gone.intel.com.net>, "Kenneth H. Fairfield" <Kenneth.H.Fairfield@spam-be-gone.intel.com.net> writes: >eL > >     Not mentioned by other respondants: little-endian versus big-endian.I > > Having done a lot of programming early on, I can tell you this is NOTeJ > > just a recompile-and-go issue.  It is porting, in some cases redesign,B > > and frequently painful having to examine reams of source code. >sF > Unless, of course, the application was designed to be endian-neutral3 > from the start, such as by using ASN.1.  Few are.   A     Precisely.  I'm talking about real-world, dare I say "legacy"mA applications written by in-house programmers.  There are a lot ofeE those around at sites that still do VMS.  Terry's question was, IIRC, C what would it matter if VMS weren't available if <a lengthy list of D VMS features> were included in a future HP-UX?  My response was justH adding to the list of items that are part of VMS, would almost certainlyE not be a part of any "enhanced unix", and would be a large impediment  to moving to such a platform.        -Ken --6 I don't speak for Intel, Intel doesn't speak for me...  
 Ken Fairfield'! F20 Automation VMS System Supportr kenneth.h.fairfield#intel.comy   ------------------------------   Date: 15 Jun 2002 04:32:55 GMT- From: djweath@attglobal.net (Dave Weatherall) , Subject: Re: Carly was here in ZKO yesterday5 Message-ID: <DTiotGxQ0bj6-pn2-deQc1ddhxBFY@localhost>p  B On Thu, 13 Jun 2002 11:13:49 UTC, Roar =?iso-8859-1?Q?Thron=E6s?=  <roart@nvg.ntnu.no> wrote:  5 > Jan C. Vorbrggen <jvorbrueggen@mediasec.de> wrote:MH > :> What hardware support for ASTs does Alpha offer that other hardware
 > :> doesn't?  > M > : I do think all the actual AST support code is in PAL. ISTR that there areoP > : processor-specific registers to keep the necessary information around (ASTENH > : comes to mind), but that wouldn't be an absolute requirement, just aL > : performance enhancement. Witness the fact that I certainly haven't heardN > : the VMS developers complaining about such lack for their IA64 port of VMS. > * > I have been wondering about that myself. > IA64 has nothing like PAL? > Does IA64 have IPLs? > ( > ASTs can be done entirely in software.A > They probably had to do it on the 386/IA32-port some years ago.e  F I first used AST's on RSX11M, getting on for 20 years ago now. I thinkF they were done in s/w, so I would not expect VMS to have a problem. I B don't have my VAX Architecture book to hand (I ought to bring one ? home) so I can't check whether VAX has anything special or not.    -- s Cheers - Dave.   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 15 Jun 2002 00:59:52 -0400m- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>s, Subject: Re: Carly was here in ZKO yesterday, Message-ID: <3D0AC9C6.DBFD02E2@videotron.ca>   Bill Todd wrote:I > diverse settings.  And if the application has not been *designed* to beVM > endian-neutral, it requires at an absolute minimum scrupulous inspection of-N > every line of code plus fairly exhaustive testing before being trusted in anM > other-endian environment - even though in *some* cases not a single line ofn" > code may actually need changing.  K If you have a COBOL program that acesses only string data (no binary stuff)qG and generates reports on paper, you mean to tell me that you need to bec concerned about endianness ?  M I was programming in C for RS232 operations on TT ports on VMS years before IhL was even aware that VAX had different endianness from a MAC. Yet, I was able_ to set the various bits through the symbolic masks to set the various terminal characteristics.e  E Had VMS changed endianness, and the engineers had done their job with G redefining all the various compiler include files to have the right bit N offsets, I woudl have only needed to recombile my probram which would have set6 the right bits wherever they were in the new platform.  M Now, if you do treat binary data from files, or from a telecom link, then you F do need to deal with endianness. But your program would have had to beW endianness aware when you wrote it since the data might be coming from another plaform.d  K Now, in the case of Tru64 to HP-UX, most certaintly that the poor engineers-K who have to downgrade the bits of Tru64 to HP-UX will have to spend tons ofs- time reversing the endianness to match HP-UX.a  L If you have perl scripts that feed text back to a web server, do you need to9 worry if the CPU is running in big or little endianness ?r   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2002 23:09:34 GMT"( From: "C.W.Holeman II" <cwhii5@ACM5.org>! Subject: COE, ODS-5 and Spiralog. D Message-ID: <OIuO8.2441$TP4.171233@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net>  6 http://www.openvms.compaq.com/tud/unixportability.htm:  ' * V7.3-1 Contents - File System (cont.)X# New Filesystem Features: ODS-5 onlyg ODS-5 system diskh
 Hard links Create as usualc $ SET FILE foo. /ENTER=foo.linke View link count with $ DIRECTORY /LINKCOUNT  ; lists COE as having in ODS-5. I thought ODS-5 was Spiralog.o   --   C.W.Holeman II cwhii5@ACM5.orge remove the fives http://also.as/cwhii   ------------------------------    Date: 14 Jun 2002 19:33:59 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) % Subject: Re: COE, ODS-5 and Spiralog. 3 Message-ID: <CFIhrgp1KWVN@eisner.encompasserve.org>   o In article <OIuO8.2441$TP4.171233@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net>, "C.W.Holeman II" <cwhii5@ACM5.org> writes: 8 > http://www.openvms.compaq.com/tud/unixportability.htm: > ) > * V7.3-1 Contents - File System (cont.)g% > New Filesystem Features: ODS-5 only  > ODS-5 system diskn > Hard links > Create as usual ! > $ SET FILE foo. /ENTER=foo.linkc > View link count with > $ DIRECTORY /LINKCOUNT > = > lists COE as having in ODS-5. I thought ODS-5 was Spiralog.u  C No, ODS-5 is a follow-on from ODS-2 which supports a limited set ofdD directory changes for compatibility with Microsoft, and now Unix. ItA has nothing to do with Spiralog and does not provide general filea system flexibility.r   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 15 Jun 2002 01:50:26 GMT 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>n% Subject: Re: COE, ODS-5 and Spiralog.n' Message-ID: <3D0AA117.B3008E2A@fsi.net>-   "C.W.Holeman II" wrote:- > 8 > http://www.openvms.compaq.com/tud/unixportability.htm: > ) > * V7.3-1 Contents - File System (cont.).% > New Filesystem Features: ODS-5 onlyc > ODS-5 system diskn > Hard links > Create as usual3! > $ SET FILE foo. /ENTER=foo.linka > View link count with > $ DIRECTORY /LINKCOUNT > = > lists COE as having in ODS-5. I thought ODS-5 was Spiralog.   G "They" never could work the bugs out of Spiralog. ODS-5 is ODS-2.2 with E extensions to support UN*X-friendly (Windows "long") filespec.'s, andu other stuff.   --   David J. Dachterai dba DJE Systems@ http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/t   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 15 Jun 2002 03:43:45 GMTt* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>% Subject: Re: COE, ODS-5 and Spiralog.tC Message-ID: <RJyO8.243279$Oa1.22189714@bin8.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>-  < "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote in message! news:3D0AA117.B3008E2A@fsi.net...i   ...   3 > "They" never could work the bugs out of Spiralog.D  K The impression I got from various insiders was that when Spiralog failed toyK provide dramatic performance improvements over ODS-2 (and it just about had J to perform worse some of the time, in random-update-intensive environmentsE that also included sequential reading - e.g., Relative files or their-J Sequential equivalents), development effort was just allowed to peter out.K This was, after all, just about when the infamous 'affinity' program became@J the corporate mantra and made continuing VMS development (outside of areasG aimed at ever-better integration with NT) seem somewhat like a waste oft money.  L In other words, it wasn't so much a matter of too many or too difficult bugsJ as just too little interest in completing the job once the slightest hitchI cropped up.  A very familiar refrain by now.  Similar in some ways to the I project a couple of years ago to resurrect the common VMS/NT file cluster.H file system on the cheap to rectify some low-level 32-bit constraints inE ODS-2/5:  for all I know it may still be going on, but with so littleeJ funding/priority that it seems increasingly unlikely that it will ever see the light of day.,   - bill   ------------------------------    Date: 14 Jun 2002 13:37:04 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) @ Subject: Re: Compaq Enterprise Directory Services for e-Business3 Message-ID: <gevXNWW1mDil@eisner.encompasserve.org>   b In article <3d0a2e1d$1@news.si.com>, "Brian Tillman" <tillman_brian@notnoone.notnohow.com> writes:L > I just received the June CONDIST.  I was reading the "New Features" manual6 > and saw a paragraph on Compaq's LDAP implementation. > M > Why does it run only on Alpha???  There doesn't seem to be anything special I > about it that requires Alpha.  The software it needs also runs on VAXes N > (OpenVMS V7.3, DECnet Plus V7.2, Compaq TCP/IP Services V5.0A).  What gives?  ; I believe the LDAP implementation originated with Innosoft,o for whom it also ran on VAX.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2002 17:16:42 -0400p- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>r@ Subject: Re: Compaq Enterprise Directory Services for e-Business, Message-ID: <3D0A5D37.95816620@videotron.ca>   Brian Tillman wrote:M > Why does it run only on Alpha???  There doesn't seem to be anything specialwI > about it that requires Alpha.  The software it needs also runs on VAXesx  I My guess is that VAX-VMS was silently matured and no new features will becQ added other than to maintain the ability to continue to participate in a cluster.   Q And you'll note that HP has yet to say anything about VAX support and VMS on VAX.    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2002 13:05:27 -0700e5 From: "Kenneth H. Fairfield" <My.Full.Name@intel.com>f$ Subject: Re: Could linux become VMS?) Message-ID: <3D0A4C87.268465DE@intel.com>:   Atlant Schmidt wrote:o   > Bob Koehler wrote: >eg > > In article <3D09DE24.659529F6@mindspring.com>, Atlant Schmidt <atlantnospam@mindspring.com> writes:  > > >a: > > > You still haven't answered my question. I guess I'll> > > > just have to assume that you have no idea which commands? > > > implement the /PRINT and /OUTPUT qualifiers. That's okay;s4 > > > neither do I. But I'm willing to admit it. :-) > >eL > >    I didn't answer it, either.  In part because I don't see the point ofK > >    it.  Do you know how which UNIX commands implement the -r option, ori, > >    the -t option?  And why woud we care? > 2 > The point, of course, was the original claim was- > that DCL is orthogonal compared to any Unixe- > shell and /OUTPUT and /PRINT were raised ase7 > the proof-points of this claim. The claim falls down,n0 > though, when one realises that even though the. > same two words are used, no one has any idea* > which bizarro subset of the DCL commands( > actually *IMPLEMENT* these supposedly- > "orthogonal" keywords; you're still reducedu/ > to trial-and-error or reading the help files.s  :     Not to be contrarian, but I thought I'd interject just. a little bit of data into this discussion. :-O  =     There are FOUR DCL verbs which have a documented /PRINTER_> qualifier.  I say "documented" because there are an additional= 2 or 3 verbs in the DCLTABLES which have a /PRINTER qualifiera< for a syntax that is not documented in the HELP file and not> actually implemented, e.g., SET QUEUE or SET TEMPLATE.  (TheseA may be verb syntaxes that are implemented in layered products butiA not present in a vanilla VMS implemenation...I don't know, I onlye" know what I see in the DCLTABLES.)  :     Of these five, only two also have a /OUTPUT qualifier:9 DIRECTORY and DUMP.  And the meaning of the qualifiers ISh9 orthogonal: /OUTPUT writes to a file while /PRINTER sendsv7 the output to SYS$PRINT (or the specified print queue).b  <     For SUBMIT, an /OUTPUT qualifier doesn't make much sense> (and isn't present) since SUBMIT doesn't normally display much= output, while /PRINTER specifically asks that the log file be ? sent to SYS$PRINT or a specified print queue (same as DIRECTORYV
 and DUMP).  B     SET ENTRY/PRINTER is used like SUBMIT/PRINTER, to modify where< a particular batch job's (entry's) log file will be printed.  C     I found only one instance of inconsistent use of /PRINT (noticet= no "ER") where /OUTPUT would be more appropriate: that was in0, a 3rd party application, SENsys from TECsys.  E     I think that's enough for now.  Just the facts.  No religion. :-)m       -Ken --6 I don't speak for Intel, Intel doesn't speak for me...  
 Ken Fairfielde! F20 Automation VMS System Supportr kenneth.h.fairfield#intel.comn   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2002 16:32:09 -0400 * From: WILLIAM WEBB <WWEBB1@email.usps.gov>$ Subject: RE: Could linux become VMS?- Message-ID: <0033000068129878000002L082*@MHS>-  # =0AGot those two on the shelf, plus5  Writing Real Programs, v1.p( (already discussed this thread) and also these golden oldies:  , VAX/VMS Mastering DCL Commands and Utilities& Daniel A. Sideris - ISBN 0-89435-317-96 QED Information Sciences, Inc., Wellesley, Mass., 1990  ) VAX DCL Programmer's Reference, Version 5 ) K.M. Leisner/D.B. Cook - ISBN 0-442-31834r% Van Nostrand Reinhold, New York, 1990.0 (Terry Shannon edited the series, according to a blurb on the back cover)  1 The Essential Guide to VMS Utilities and Commandse" Paula Sharick - ISBN 0-442-00266-1% Van Nostrand Reinhold, New York, 1990e (Ditto Shannon, front cover)  9 Inside VMS:  The System Manager's and System Programmer'sd Guide to VMS Internals! Wayne Sewell - ISBN 0-442-00474-5i% Van Nostrand Reinhold, New York, 1992f (Ditto Shannon, front cover)   The Complete Guide to Pathworksh' Kenneth L. Spencer - ISBN 1-878956-22-1  CBM Books, Horsham Penna., 1993d  * VAX I/O Subsystems: Optimizing Performance Ken Bates - ISBN 1-878956-02-1/ Professional Press Books, Horsham, Penna., 1992o  , Also got a complete set of the Rainbow Books sitting next to all this stuff.   # Great for confounding the younguns.m   WWWebb   -----Original Message-----/ From: Info-VAX-Request@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNET # Sent: Friday, June 14, 2002 1:30 PM-B To: Webb, William W Raleigh, NC; Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNET$ Subject: RE: Could linux become VMS?    > "Bill Gunshannon" <bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu> wrote in message& news:aecp0o$2s70$1@info.cs.uofs.edu... But I, for one, could reallyB > use an equivalent to the "UNIX System Administration Handbook" IE > mentioned earlier that targeted the more common tasks of VMS in one H > concise location.  I am sure there are others who could use it as wel= l. >    Two that come to mind are:  H Mastering VMS -  David Bynon. ISBN 0-9614729-7-9. Professional Press Bo= oksn 1990H The Hitchhikers Guide to VMS - Bruce Ellis. ISBN 1-878956-00-0. Profess= ionall Press Books 19900 No idea whether more up-to-date editions exist.=   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2002 14:45:05 -0700t0 From: Mark Berryman <Mark.Berryman@Mvb.Saic.Com>$ Subject: Re: Could linux become VMS?+ Message-ID: <3D0A0171.71F48D4@Mvb.Saic.Com>    Atlant Schmidt wrote:e >  > Brass Christof wrote:r >  [some text deleted]s  tD > > 2.How do you display a certain set of attributes of a UNIX file? > 3 > I'm not sure I understand the question; it soundsl3 > trivially easy. "ls -l" shows me the attributes I 3 > care about (including whether or not the file has / > any acls). ls has other selectors that selectq, > subsets of those attributes but I've never1 > used them. If I needed a subset not provided by . > ls, about two minutes with perl or awk would6 > provide any arbitrary subset in any order I desired. > ? > > 3.How do you display a certain subset of entries within one-; > >   directory based on a name restriction with wildcards?r > 4 > Once again, I don't understand your question. What7 > part of * and ? don't you understand? And if you want07 > more sophisticated searching, pipe the output to your = > favorite grep and select the desired files with full regexpn7 > capabilies. Between grepping things "in" and grepping.: > things "out" (with -v), you'd have complete flexibility.. > In what way would you consider VMS superior?  F And here you have just proven one of my major issues with Unix.  Unix,? quite frankly, was designed by programmers for programmers.  TogE effectively use Unix, one simply must be a programmer.  I can't count H the number of times the answer to the question "how do you do X on Unix"E is "Simple, a few lines of code in [awk|sed|perl|shell|etc) will take.F care of it".  All of these languages are designed to be easy to parse,H not easy to read (or write) and it takes programming skills to use them.H Regexp is just so much garbage to anyone who doesn't use it on some kind of a regular basis.f  H Now, I really don't want to get into a discussion as to whether a systemG administrator should also be a programmer.  I will state, however, thatlD it is much nicer to admin a system where I don't have to roll my ownE tool whenever I want to do something.  And THAT is the Unix paradigm,'G "we give you all the low-level tools, its up to you to figure out whichu? ones you need for any given task and how to put them together".-  G There are reasons Unix is popular in schools.  Oddly enough, those sametG reasons are why Windows had little difficulty replacing Unix is so manys> different places regardless of Windows' technical inferiority.   > = > > 4.How do you accomplish a fixed width display format when * > >   showing the contents of a directory? > 2 > Once again, I don't see your point, nor do I see4 > where VMS is any improvment. Unix at least has the8 > courtesy to put the varying-width stuff (the filename)4 > at the right side of the display; VMS embeds it at4 > the left where you have to work hard to get at it.5 > (You don't really think it's a fixed-width filenamed > field, do you???)q  @ Nope.  VMS lets me define the size of each field.  Unix does not* (unless, of course, I want to write code).   > 1 > By the way, in VMS, can you get a list of files 1 > listed one-filename-per-line, as you might want.# > for raw material for a .COM file?s    Yes.  And it is even documented.   > > > > Do you know what can happen if a file exists with name -r? > & > Yes. Do you? A software professional- > learns these sorts of things. Especially ifI) > the software professional has read "Theo > Unix Hater's Handbook". :-)   D I haven't read it, never needed to.  Unix has no sanity checks worthA speaking of in its filesystem.  If a programmer passes a "string" F containing a filename by value, rather than by reference, for example,H the Unix filesystem will happily create a file containg whatever garbageF characters that resolves to rather than generating an error.  I do NOT/ consider that a proper way for an OS to behave.   E I was literally sitting next to a programmer who made this particularnF mistake.  In his case, the memory that actually got referenced for theF filename contained a byte with a value of 42 followed by a byte with aF value of 0.  And, because such things are done far more by reflex thanC by thinking about it he then used ls to find the bad file and rm toOH delete it.  Of course, 42 happens to be the ascii value of * so he typedC rm -f * before suddenly realizing what that was really going to do.e  
 Mark Berrymans   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2002 19:11:32 -0400b( From: David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>$ Subject: Re: Could linux become VMS?, Message-ID: <3D0A7824.4090108@tsoft-inc.com>   Larry Kilgallen wrote:  u > In article <3D09D40B.8F5AC348@mediasec.de>, Jan C. =?iso-8859-1?Q?Vorbr=FCggen?= <jvorbrueggen@mediasec.de> writes:l > M >>>I think it has been stated before that the code is in the terminal driver.nK >>>DCL merely provides access to the multiple command recall functionality.e >>>yL >>Single-line command editing is in the terminal class driver. No reason whyP >>DCL couldn't "roll its own" for multi-line editing when required. I agree it'sI >>too much work and inappropriate to teach the terminal class driver thathP >>trick. So the reason is, nobody wants to touch the DCL code to add this. Which >>is what I said.o >> > D > "Nobody wants" is a bit simplistic.  DCL is an area where backwardA > compatibility is most crucial and least susceptible to thoroughy> > testing (TECO syntax is another).  Changing DCL would not be- > nearly so hard as testing the change fully.  >     P This whole discussion seems rather senseless.  I'm understanding it to be about M editting multiple prior DCL commands.  Don't know why I'd ever even think of gI doing that.  However, if it's for single commands that have wrapped, SET  L TERM/WIDTH=132 sure should handle most cases, and for longer commands, they # should have been in a command file.F   Dave   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 15 Jun 2002 00:47:38 GMTE1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>E$ Subject: Re: Could linux become VMS?' Message-ID: <3D0A925D.7AE10220@fsi.net>o   Dave Weatherall wrote: > 7 > On Thu, 13 Jun 2002 00:55:21 UTC, "David J. Dachtera"-  > <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote: >  > snipped... >  > >6L > > ....and if you don't have another computer running, your screwed without > > the hard-copy. > E > True Dave but that's why everybody/household _has_ to have at least4D > two. I can't remember a Win9x/NT install upgrade I've done at homeB > where I haven't needed access to the Internet to get a fix, bios > upgrade or driver.  H Ah, yes - the information age's answer to the "chicken and egg" problem.B You need to access the internet to get what you need but you can'tH access the internet until you get what you need but to get what you needH ya gotta access the internet but you can't access the internet until you* get what you need but to get what you need  ' %EXEC-F-INFLOOP, infinite loop detectedoA %RQP-E-EXSIGERR, Executive signalled an error - request abandonedh   -- o David J. Dachterai dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 15 Jun 2002 00:55:36 GMT 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>-$ Subject: Re: Could linux become VMS?' Message-ID: <3D0A943C.3FCF1266@fsi.net>b   Bill Todd wrote: > > > "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote in message# > news:3D095A28.1B6BF4FE@fsi.net...a >  > ...  > L > > Problem is, everyone else also assumes that high-speed broadband is moreG > > ubiquitous than it really is. Truth be told, the last number anyone L > > mentioned here (that I can recall) or on chi.internet was that braodband= > > internet access is available is less than 10% of the U.S.g > M > Availability in less than 10% of the *area* of the U.S. might be believabletN > (though even that would have to exclude satellite access, wouldn't it?), butI > not availability to less than 10% of the population (even excluding the0 > satellite option).  G Dunno - some of the local bedroom communities where the high-tech pro'sgG make their homes around me are not serviceable for either ADSL (too far F from the CO) or cable internet (system not bi-directional or otherwiseH compatible). Wireless broadband would be an option but for some reason IG haven't yet discovered, even with the fledgling technology we have now,h; companies still aren't jumping on these virtual gold-mines.e  H So, yeah, around here, the 10% *IS* the population, not the area. BarelyB 10% of suburbia (by population) here in metro Chicago is currentlyE serviced by some broadband option provider. Coverage in the city is av bit better, but a bit spotty.d  E Other areas may have better coverage, of course. Others may be worse.t   -- r David J. Dachterap dba DJE Systemsm http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/w   ------------------------------    Date: 15 Jun 2002 04:45:05 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>$ Subject: Re: Could linux become VMS?- Message-ID: <87y9dh7fou.fsf@prep.synonet.com>v  * David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> writes:  A > I've never resorted to any documentation for VMS except for theMF > various documentation sets.  I've got stuff from VMS V2 to the stuffD > distributed with V6.2, and a few other things.  I've usually found > what I need.   And the RT-11 TECO manual.  D Mind you, I've thought that the RSX DECnet manuals where better than) the VMS ones, and the RMS stuff in parts.-   -- e< Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.S@                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------    Date: 15 Jun 2002 05:16:11 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>$ Subject: Re: Could linux become VMS?- Message-ID: <87u1o57e90.fsf@prep.synonet.com>   4 Atlant Schmidt <atlantnospam@mindspring.com> writes:  6 > Now, contrast that with the analagous Unix question:  .; >   o Which Unix commands allow their output to be printed?h >       ...saved to a file?t   With no shell...   -- m< Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.e@                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------   Date: 15 Jun 2002 04:33:28 GMT- From: djweath@attglobal.net (Dave Weatherall) $ Subject: Re: Could linux become VMS?5 Message-ID: <DTiotGxQ0bj6-pn2-SddzjgXwMZRb@localhost>   D On Fri, 14 Jun 2002 00:09:50 UTC, Brass Christof <welcome@spam.not>  wrote:   > Atlant Schmidt wrote:H > >  > > Bob Koehler wrote: > > * > > > > Okay, here's a quick test for you: > > > >-F > > > >  o  Precisely which VMS commands implement a /PRINT qualifier?% > > > >      ...An /OUTPUT qualifier?: > > >uJ > > >    We all know what th /print qualifier does, don't we?  We all knowC > > >    what the /output qualifier does, too.  That's consistency.6 > > 4 > > Great. Now try answering *THE QUESTION I ASKED*. > > < > > *WHICH* commands implement the elusive /PRINT qualifier?F > > You prbably don't know without looking/trying. I certainly didn't,? > > and I used VMS for the better part of several decades. Samea8 > > for /OUTPUT. Someday *ALL* the DEC-provided commandsA > > may implement those two qualifiers. But it's a certainty that ; > > there will *NEVER* come a time when all the third-partyX. > > and user-provided commands implement them. > ; > At least there is a clear concept which can be observed.  / > If some don't observe it they make a mistake.n > > > Anyway if you want to log the output you can SET HOST /LOG.  > * > How do you log the user input with UNIX? >  > > 8 > > >    So what does -r mean?  There is no consistency. > > 2 > > I admitted that both command environments have0 > > weaknesses. Can you make the same admission? > 0 > Okay there are 5% in VMS that can be improved * > and 95% in UNIX that should be improved. >  > Do you feel better now?o  D True but I'm sure Atlant would back with 'for one command?'. So I'd  probably do something like :-     	$ define /user sys$output mylog
 	$ my_commandd  C To get it to printer directly is a bit more work if you don't have n> sys$print defined but if you do doesn't substituting mylog by  sys$print work?t  C And of course if you're executing a DCL procedure there's always :-.  & 	$ @my_command /output=sys$login:mylog  B Errors still come out on your screen, I think, 'cos sys$error and D sys$output are different but that's the case with Unix too isn't it  (stderr and stdout)?  D I agree there's more to type than on Unix or Dos but that's the VMS 3 way. It does help to improve your typimg skills :-)I   -- h Cheers - Dave.   ------------------------------    Date: 14 Jun 2002 15:39:03 -0700. From: SPAMSINK2001@YAHOO.COM (Alan E. Feldman)C Subject: DCL Puzzle: Can you produce this DIRECTORY command output? = Message-ID: <343f30ae.0206141439.2b094aa4@posting.google.com>e   Hello DCL users!  E Can you construct an argument for the DIRECTORY command that producesI- the following output?:  (Sorry, no prizes :-(s      Directory SPOOK:  t *.*;  w Total of 1 file.    A You can do whatever DCL you want to prepare the argument, but theeD above output must be produced by a single DCL DIRECTORY command withC the ODS-2 file system. Character set manipulations and the like areS not allowed.  7 (Puzzle developed on VMS v6.1 and also works on v6.2.)       Disclaimer: JMHO Alan E. Feldmano" afeldman atski gfigroup dotski com   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 15 Jun 2002 00:35:08 GMTn) From: DCantor@shore.net (David A. Cantor)-G Subject: Re: DCL Puzzle: Can you produce this DIRECTORY command output? ; Message-ID: <%YvO8.5081$qL5.127170@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net>   m In article <343f30ae.0206141439.2b094aa4@posting.google.com>, SPAMSINK2001@YAHOO.COM (Alan E. Feldman) wrote:aF >Can you construct an argument for the DIRECTORY command that produces. >the following output?:  (Sorry, no prizes :-(     >Directory SPOOK:S  0 >*.*;3  9 >Total of 1 file.c  O Absolutely, but I'm assuming that the device/directory listed does not have to  = say SPOOK:.  If it does, then I guess I have more work to do.l   $ define spook 0::nla0:S $ directory /brief spook:*.*;d  " Directory 0::NLA0:[FAL$SERVER]       *.*;                   Total of 1 file. $    Dave C.h   ------------------------------    Date: 14 Jun 2002 12:13:13 -0700" From: cstranslations@msn.com (Joe) Subject: Re: DECWindows "hang"= Message-ID: <d56d1c2d.0206141113.1a2ffaeb@posting.google.com>B  o "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> wrote in message news:<3G1O8.18$SR5.365711@news.cpqcorp.net>...h > ( > Are the LEDs blinking on the keyboard?   Blinking away this morning.1   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2002 21:10:36 +02005) From: Bart Zorn <B.Zorn@xs4all.nospam.nl>P( Subject: Re: doubts about using edit/TPU/ Message-ID: <3D0A3FAC.9040908@xs4all.nospam.nl>f   Atlant Schmidt wrote:n > Peter LANGSTOEGER wrote: >  > I >>EVE/LSEDIT do support DECterms at various sizes (while EDT only supporttF >>80x24 and 132x24) and have mouse support with or without X11 supportL >>(/INTERFACE=MOTIF). While EDT isn't able even to restore the scroll regionM >>(it restores it to 24 lines and not turn if off - making it silly on biggerf >>DECterms).  ...u >  > 2 > The complaint about EDT not restoring the scroll0 > regions is true, but fairly easily remedied by+ > wrapping EDT inside a .COM procedure thatV. > does know how to restore the scroll regions. > I always did just that.t > 0 > I'd post the critical escape sequence if I had- > my old DCL command procedure library handy,r/ > but I don't. I believe it was the "SET SCROLL , > REGIONS" command with *NO* parameters, but3 > it might instead have used parameters bigger than  > any window I ever employed.= > / > Editors are just like operating systems. Someu+ > you love, some you hate, and some you canM/ > take-or-leave. I *LOVED* EDT; it's one of then- > two things I miss about VMS (with the otherv+ > being $ SEARCH /HIGHLIGHT). I never could 3 > stand TPU (and any of its "personalities") except ( > for viewing files (in Read-Only mode). >  > Atlant >  >   H EDT, for several versions of VMS now, DOES restore the scrolling region C to your terminal's page size. I am no fan of EDT, but credit where t credit is due.  	 Bart Zornn   ------------------------------    Date: 14 Jun 2002 14:31:12 -0700. From: SPAMSINK2001@YAHOO.COM (Alan E. Feldman)( Subject: Re: doubts about using edit/TPU< Message-ID: <343f30ae.0206141331.7ec1840@posting.google.com>  k peter@langstoeger.at (Peter LANGSTOEGER) wrote in message news:<wRiO8.237714$305.3289124@news.chello.at>...   eI > EVE/LSEDIT do support DECterms at various sizes (while EDT only supportaF > 80x24 and 132x24) and have mouse support with or without X11 supportL > (/INTERFACE=MOTIF). While EDT isn't able even to restore the scroll regionM > (it restores it to 24 lines and not turn if off - making it silly on biggerpQ > DECterms). So, the general consensus here seems to be "Use EVE with EDT keypad"b    F I use VMS 6.1 and 6.2 with SmarTerm 9.0a and never have this scrollingC problem. Yes, at one point it was a problem but it depends on whichw version of VMS you're using.     Disclaimer: JMHO Alan E. Feldmanx" afeldman atski gfigroup dotski com   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 15 Jun 2002 01:07:16 GMTu. From: peter@langstoeger.at (Peter LANGSTOEGER)( Subject: Re: doubts about using edit/TPU5 Message-ID: <8rwO8.245523$305.3428654@news.chello.at>a  [ In article <3D0A3FAC.9040908@xs4all.nospam.nl>, Bart Zorn <B.Zorn@xs4all.nospam.nl> writes:i >Atlant Schmidt wrote:1 >>Peter LANGSTOEGER (peter@langstoeger.at) wrote:lJ >>>EVE/LSEDIT do support DECterms at various sizes (while EDT only supportG >>>80x24 and 132x24) and have mouse support with or without X11 supporteM >>>(/INTERFACE=MOTIF). While EDT isn't able even to restore the scroll regionnN >>>(it restores it to 24 lines and not turn if off - making it silly on bigger >>>DECterms).  ... >> t3 >> The complaint about EDT not restoring the scrolle1 >> regions is true, but fairly easily remedied by-, >> wrapping EDT inside a .COM procedure that/ >> does know how to restore the scroll regions.i >> I always did just that. >lI >EDT, for several versions of VMS now, DOES restore the scrolling region nD >to your terminal's page size. I am no fan of EDT, but credit where  >credit is due.    So now, I stand catched ;-)tG I haven't used EDT for some VMS versions now. I did cite its (previous) E 'misbehaviour' as an argument against it and not as a fact (because I-L haven't checked it lately and you noticed it. Shame on me, where is CJL whenH one needs him). EDT got replaced over a decade ago and I then only foundI two advantages of EDT versus EVE so I switched to EVE almost immediately.lC I don't really like products which don't get improved any longer...r  - btw: My EVE$INIT grew very quickly and is nown  P TPU IF GET_INFO (SCREEN, "MOTIF") THEN SET (MOUSE,ON) ELSE SET (MOUSE,OFF) ENDIF DEF KEY=CONTROL-B SET WIDTH 132  DEF KEY=CONTROL-N SET WIDTH 80 DEF KEY=F8 QUIT  DEF KEY=GOLD-E EXITc DEF KEY=GOLD-Q QUITx6 DEF KEY=GOLD-X TPU WRITE_FILE (SELECT_RANGE,"TMP.TMP")! DEF KEY=GOLD-LEFT  "SHIFT LEFT 8"n" DEF KEY=GOLD-RIGHT "SHIFT RIGHT 8" SET CURSOR BOUND SET NOEXIT ATTRIBUTE CHECK SET SCROLL MARGIN 7 7'
 SET NOWRAP SET KEYPAD EDT   -- a Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGERp% Network and OpenVMS system specialistr E-mail  peter@langstoeger.atP A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm looking for (a) Network _and_ VMS Job(s)   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2002 20:08:39 +0200 C From: Eberhard Heuser-Hofmann <vaxinf@chclu.chemie.uni-konstanz.de> I Subject: RE: Fastest CD-R or CD-RW capabilities for burning under OpenVMSg@ Message-ID: <00A0F767.BD11B828.334@CHCLU.CHEMIE.UNI-KONSTANZ.DE>   Hi Rich,  F >It appears we're going to be doing a fair amount of archiving to CD-RD >disks in order to better preserve data currently stored on up to 14F >year old DAT archive tapes that are slowly becoming faulty.  The testB >systems are an MV3100 with a Yamaha 4416, works OK at a max of 2XF >using CDRECORD and a PWS600au with a Yamaha 6416 on a KZPAA SCSI card" >that ran at 6X with 100% success.  F >Given the amount of data we'll be archiving, I'm looking at getting aG >faster burner; this was triggered by a Q announcement of a 40x/12x/40xdE >unit (IDE only, unfortunately) for use on the PWS600au.  I'd like torE >find out what the fastest rates others have managed to burn CD-Rs on F >VMS Alpha systems, and what drives they used in doing that.  Also, ifD >an IDE burner is in fact usable on the 600au (enhanced version with@ >bootable IDE CDROM drive), which of those would be recommended?  C I'm using a TEAC 12x IDE-Burner. The burning process works nice, ifeD you use the "burnproof" switch, that prevents buffer underruns. ThisC means that real burning rate a lower than the nominal one (8x-10x).n  A My recommendation: it is the right time to switch to DVD-burning. C The drives are cheap enough. They can do both CD-R(W) and DVD-R(W).sD DVDs have a 6.x-fold capacity than CD's. The speed of DVD-burning is5 16x for DVD-R and 8x for DVD-RW (Pioneer DVR-A03/04).    Hope this helpsl EberhardO ===============================================================================    Dr. Eberhard Heuser-Hofmanny Univ. Konstanz Fakultaet fuer Chemie  Universitaets-Strasse 10 D-78464 Konstanz Germany . Phone: +49-7531-88-2026, FAX: +49-7531-88-3139* email: vaxinf@chclu.chemie.uni-konstanz.de  O ===============================================================================    ------------------------------    Date: 14 Jun 2002 21:09:19 -0700& From: jordan@ccs4vms.com (Rich Jordan)I Subject: Re: Fastest CD-R or CD-RW capabilities for burning under OpenVMSD= Message-ID: <cc5619f2.0206142009.22524d81@posting.google.com>l  U system@SendSpamHere.ORG wrote in message news:<00A0F731.9C42B042@SendSpamHere.ORG>...  >  > Rich,J > G > I replaced my firmware brain-dead Yamaha 4416 with a YAMAHA CRW2200S. E > This unit allows me to mount CDs on VMS unlike the old Yamaha 4416.tF > It boasts some pretty good figures for burn speed and I've used themG > with CDRECORD at these higher speeds without ever creating a coaster.r   Brian,0      thanks, I'll add that to the list to check.   Rich   ------------------------------    Date: 14 Jun 2002 21:25:25 -0700& From: jordan@ccs4vms.com (Rich Jordan)I Subject: Re: Fastest CD-R or CD-RW capabilities for burning under OpenVMSo= Message-ID: <cc5619f2.0206142025.5b37c62d@posting.google.com>    Eberhard Heuser-Hofmann <vaxinf@chclu.chemie.uni-konstanz.de> wrote in message news:<00A0F767.BD11B828.334@CHCLU.CHEMIE.UNI-KONSTANZ.DE>...g
 > Hi Rich, > .....E > E > I'm using a TEAC 12x IDE-Burner. The burning process works nice, ifdF > you use the "burnproof" switch, that prevents buffer underruns. ThisE > means that real burning rate a lower than the nominal one (8x-10x).: > C > My recommendation: it is the right time to switch to DVD-burning.aE > The drives are cheap enough. They can do both CD-R(W) and DVD-R(W).oF > DVDs have a 6.x-fold capacity than CD's. The speed of DVD-burning is7 > 16x for DVD-R and 8x for DVD-RW (Pioneer DVR-A03/04).J >  > Hope this helpsp
 > Eberhard  	 Eberhard,aE      thanks for the info.  I noticed your posts about the DVD burningsD software you've built and to be honest I'm considering that for homeF use; that writing speed is nice too.  Unfortunately for work we have aD wide variety of systems with CDROM drives that could reasonably needE to read the archives, and we can't/won't be upgrading them all to DVD  for quite a while.  C      Using the IDE interface for something useful is appealing.  DovF you actually prefer using IDE burners over SCSI for reasons other than> the price differential?  And do you think its possible to makeE effective use of a really fast (like the 40X burner from Compaq) on anB PWD 60au Enhanced like mine, either SCSI or IDE as needed?  Thanks very much for the info.D   Rich Jordanr   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2002 18:00:17 GMTp* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>. Subject: Re: Interesting approach to marketingB Message-ID: <RaqO8.168149$4i.14751550@bin2.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>  J "Doc.Cypher" <Use-Author-Supplied-Address-Header@[127.1]> wrote in message6 news:200206141350.g5EDoPFB009976@cryptofortress.com...: > On Fri, 14 Jun 2002, John Nebel <nebel@csdco.com> wrote:7 > >http://www.sun-vbots.com/cd-html2/comic2/page04a.htmi > > 2 > >Either you are with Sun or you are a Carnibyte! >a' > Accoring to the bottom of the page...  >w@ > "SUN INTERNAL CONFIDENTIAL FOR SUN CHANNEL PARTNERS, SUN SALES) > REPRESENTATIVES, SUn SYSTEM ENGINEERS".  >eI > Oh, read some more (if you can stand it)... I wonder if some of this is 0 > based on arguments between Andrew and Rob. :-)  G That (plus a nostalgic nod to CPU Wars) is what comes to mind.  Kind ofgI makes you wonder about the intellectual capacity of Sun's sales force, ifoG this is what constitutes 'training' for them.  OTOH, they do seem to beo relatively effective.e   - bill   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 15 Jun 2002 00:09:50 GMTd1 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com>n. Subject: Re: Interesting approach to marketing, Message-ID: <hBvO8.72783$pw3.3338@sccrnsc03>  J "Doc.Cypher" <Use-Author-Supplied-Address-Header@[127.1]> wrote in message6 news:200206141350.g5EDoPFB009976@cryptofortress.com...: > On Fri, 14 Jun 2002, John Nebel <nebel@csdco.com> wrote:7 > >http://www.sun-vbots.com/cd-html2/comic2/page04a.htm  > >C2 > >Either you are with Sun or you are a Carnibyte! >h' > Accoring to the bottom of the page...a >y@ > "SUN INTERNAL CONFIDENTIAL FOR SUN CHANNEL PARTNERS, SUN SALES) > REPRESENTATIVES, SUn SYSTEM ENGINEERS".p >.  G And, of course, anyone else who is gulled and duped by some of the most." insipid advertising on the planet.   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2002 18:35:40 GMTh* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>H Subject: Re: Interesting ZDnet post about Tandem -- Can VMS do the same?B Message-ID: <0IqO8.224076$%y.20315761@bin4.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>  ? "Atlant Schmidt" <atlantnospam@mindspring.com> wrote in message ( news:3D09F6FA.5AE88126@mindspring.com...= > ZDnet has a very, very long posting about Tandem "returningoA > to its HP roots". I haven't read the whole article yet, but oneaB > quote that jumped out at me was of the Tandem founder discussing= > how Tandem would be a better fit inside HP than it ever was  > inside Compaq. >:4 > Gee, that sounds just like Deja Vu all over again! >n > Here's the complete article: >i. >   http://zdnet.com.com/2100-1103-935814.html >@ > Your thoughts?  K Treybig's statements suggested why he may have been encouraged to step down L as CEO.  He didn't seem all that sharp technically, he clearly had no visionH for Tandem's future (if revenues were $2b annually in the mid-'90s, theyD appear to have declined gradually since to the $1.2b - $1.5b currentK figure), and his comment about Carly needing to know how to fire people (asn: opposed to grow the business) was even more short-sighted.   - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2002 17:02:49 -0400a- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>nH Subject: Re: Interesting ZDnet post about Tandem -- Can VMS do the same?, Message-ID: <3D0A59F7.65451295@videotron.ca>   Atlant Schmidt wrote:mB > quote that jumped out at me was of the Tandem founder discussing= > how Tandem would be a better fit inside HP than it ever wasr > inside Compaq. > 4 > Gee, that sounds just like Deja Vu all over again!  I The problem with this is that Carly has stated many times that she shares K vision with wintel and "industry standard" with Curly.  HP today is not theoM serious enterprise HP of the days when Tandem was formed. HP has strived veryh hard to become a wintel maker.    M And the bit about IA64 lowering the price of Tandem machines is horseradish. sD Tandem systems cost a lot because of all the supporting hardware and$ duplication, not because of the CPU.  L And if you need to increase the number of CPUs to provide the same workload,H it will significantly increase the cost of the machine, not decrease it.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2002 17:08:11 -0400a- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>eH Subject: Re: Interesting ZDnet post about Tandem -- Can VMS do the same?, Message-ID: <3D0A5B39.E4218343@videotron.ca>   Rob Young wrote:O > "We've been lusting after their compilers for years," Nist said. "On Sept. 5,nP > the day after the merger was announced, my compiler people wanted to go across/ > the street" to talk to the HP compiler teams.e  L Rob, Tandem has been listing for better compilers. (and probably a better IP( stack as well, if i remember correctly).  T The irony is that HP doesn't have compiler people anymore, it donated them to Intel.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2002 14:14:35 -0400y; From: "Brian Tillman" <tillman_brian@notnoone.notnohow.com>3; Subject: Re: Mail masquerading using Compaq TCP/IP servicesr" Message-ID: <3d0a3286@news.si.com>  G >I'm a Unix guy struggling to find my feet on a VMS host. I'm trying tooJ >configure what I'd call mail masquerading (or at least, sendmail calls itG >that) - I want mail from the host user@y.x.com.au to send out with theu1 >sender address changed to user@x.com.au instead.m  I MadGoat's MX is a much better SMTP mailer for VMS than is Compaq TCP/IP'sS@ SMTP.  You can make your address appear to be whatever you want. --A Brian Tillman                   Internet: tillman_brian at si.comuA Smiths Aerospace                          tillman at swdev.si.com = 3290 Patterson Ave. SE, MS      Addresses modified to prevent < Grand Rapids, MI 49512-1991     SPAM.  Replace "at" with "@"8        This opinion doesn't represent that of my company   ------------------------------  + Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2002 20:20:50 +0100 (MET)P9 From: Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>n; Subject: Re: Mail masquerading using Compaq TCP/IP servicest; Message-ID: <01KIXMB35GAY96WTPR@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>S  ; > You can make your address appear to be whatever you want.'  I TCP/IP Services now has the logical TCPIP$SMTP_FROM.  Set it to anything IG you want.  /SUBSTITUTE_DOMAIN to change it system-wide has been around 0
 for years.   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2002 18:29:43 GMT ' From: Colin Blake <colin@theblakes.com>e Subject: Re: MOZILLA and CSWB-, Message-ID: <3D0A3614.5020009@theblakes.com>   Bob Sudderth wrote:c  > >What will CSWB V1.0 give us that we don't get in Mozilla 1.0? >4K A little OpenVMS branding (different homepage, bookmarks, etc) and support.d  - >Will CSWB become a part of each VMS release.1 >w Yes, starting with V7.3-1.   >How soon is soon? t >kI The bits are ready. Hopefully they'll hit the OpenVMS web site next week.    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2002 23:38:57 -0400s' From: "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@hp.com> 5 Subject: RE: My conversation with Linus about VMS ...lT Message-ID: <BE56C50EA024184DAF48F0B9A47F5CF40266078B@kaoexc01.americas.cpqcorp.net>   Andrew,s  E >>> It isn't the fastest except in Bobs fevered imagination and thatsmH the Tru64 JVM, Compaq have never run SPECjbb on OpenVMS which is a major release behind Tru64.<<<  @ OpenVMS JVM performance is now approx +/- 5% of Tru64. Also, TheH production version of Java available today is the same version as Tru64.D OpenVMS JVM is V1.3.1-3 with V1.4 cooking (most developers today are* still on some flavour of V1.3). Reference:. http://www.compaq.com/java/download/index.html  ? Is it the fastest JVM on the market? Don't know. Perhaps not...c  H However, as Sun has shown with Solaris - you certainly do not need to be* the fastest on the block to win Customers.   :-)L   RegardsN  
 Kerry Main Senior Consultantb Hewlett-Packard Canada! Consulting & Integration Services  Voice: 613-592-4660l Fax   : 613-591-4477 Email: Kerry.Main@hp.com     -----Original Message-----' From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancyv7 [mailto:andrew_nospam.harrison_remove_this@sun#.com]=20b Sent: June 14, 2002 12:52 PM To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com 5 Subject: Re: My conversation with Linus about VMS ...s         Christopher Smith wrote:   >>-----Original Message-----8 >>From: bob@instantwhip.com [mailto:bob@instantwhip.com] >> >=20+ > Wow, this is amusing -- where to start...e >=20 >=20 >=20J >>Are you?  Why would one not like the bulletproof security, the worlds=20J >>best clustering, the best realtime platform, the most scalable OS out=207 >>there, the worlds fastest jvm?  Why are you trying toT >> >=20J > I'm not sure I'd be bragging about the jvm just yet.  Not saying that=20H > it isn't the fastest, of course, but just that this is a relatively=20D > new development, and it may be outclassed by another jvm in the=20H > future, especially if development slips on it, as has been known to=20 > happen with VMS software. :/ >=20    7 It isn't the fastest except in Bobs fevered imaginationi6 and thats the Tru64 JVM, Compaq have never run SPECjbb1 on OpenVMS which is a major release behind Tru64.n  7 A number of vendors provide systems that deliver better 8 per CPU performance than the best Compaq can offer which is currently the ES45.  6 Perhaps Bob was confused by Compaq calling the JVM the "Fast" JVM.    Regardsr Andrew Harrisonc   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2002 17:05:57 -0400-- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>0K Subject: Re: New picture virus threatens data ... better dust off VMS mail!:, Message-ID: <3D0A5AB2.4BAF0A52@videotron.ca>   re: Infected JPG files.c  * Something I really do not understand here.  N Is this an Internet Explorer bug that allows data inside a JPG file to executeN ?  Or do all JPG viewer applications in the world have that security hole that4 allows code inside the compressed image to execute ?  8 Sorry, I find this one hard to really believe/understand   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2002 21:27:57 GMTh* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>K Subject: Re: New picture virus threatens data ... better dust off VMS mail!tB Message-ID: <xdtO8.250643$%o.20764831@bin3.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>  : "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message& news:3D0A5AB2.4BAF0A52@videotron.ca... > re: Infected JPG files.o >i, > Something I really do not understand here. >aH > Is this an Internet Explorer bug that allows data inside a JPG file to executeeK > ?  Or do all JPG viewer applications in the world have that security holet that6 > allows code inside the compressed image to execute ? > : > Sorry, I find this one hard to really believe/understand  I That's because it's hogwash.  The virus is a normal .exe that no one witheJ any sense will execute on their PC.  Should they be silly enough to do so,L one of its effects is to append something to .jpgs, but no .jpg viewer knownH to man will do anything sinister with the added bytes.  If the augmentedF .jpg is then sent to another computer, nothing will happen unless thatK computer is already infected with the original .exe (which makes it unclearSF what the append to the .jpg is supposed to accomplish, but then it's aL little unclear what real purpose the entire exercise was supposed to have in the first place).L   - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2002 21:29:41 +0000H2 From: John Eisenschmidt <jweisen@eisenschmidt.org>K Subject: Re: New picture virus threatens data ... better dust off VMS mail!L4 Message-ID: <20020614212941.A25346@eisenschmidt.org>  < I have to give props to Slashdot for their coverage of this:  S http://features.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=02/06/14/1343223&mode=nocomment&tid=166   q"The sleaze has gotten out of hand; it's time to roast a group of 20 or so companies whose profits are directly linked to creating fear in their customers, who have to keep discovering new sources of fear to improve their bottom line - or in the absence of new discoveries, keep inventing new sources of fear. Yes, it's time to take on the anti-virus software vendors."d  I Unless the Voices are Mistaken, Bill Todd (billtodd@metrocast.net) Wrote:  > < > "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message( > news:3D0A5AB2.4BAF0A52@videotron.ca... > > re: Infected JPG files.a > >1. > > Something I really do not understand here. > >cJ > > Is this an Internet Explorer bug that allows data inside a JPG file to	 > execute M > > ?  Or do all JPG viewer applications in the world have that security holel > that8 > > allows code inside the compressed image to execute ? > >t< > > Sorry, I find this one hard to really believe/understand > K > That's because it's hogwash.  The virus is a normal .exe that no one withrL > any sense will execute on their PC.  Should they be silly enough to do so,N > one of its effects is to append something to .jpgs, but no .jpg viewer knownJ > to man will do anything sinister with the added bytes.  If the augmentedH > .jpg is then sent to another computer, nothing will happen unless thatM > computer is already infected with the original .exe (which makes it unclearoH > what the append to the .jpg is supposed to accomplish, but then it's aN > little unclear what real purpose the entire exercise was supposed to have in > the first place).x >  > - bill >  >    -- 0/ John W. Eisenschmidt <jweisen@eisenschmidt.org>=6  Homepage URL    | http://www.eisenschmidt.org/jweisenM  PGP Public Key  | http://www.eisenschmidt.org/jweisen/misc/jeisenschmidt.asciD  PGP Fingerprint | 5F9B F916 5AD1 3295 CF99 BC1E 1F97 E6A3 37E3 BEF2  O FOO MANE PADME HUM: "Our first obligation is to keep the FOO counters turning."=   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2002 20:10:00 -0400=' From: Howard S Shubs <howard@shubs.net>aK Subject: Re: New picture virus threatens data ... better dust off VMS mail!c< Message-ID: <howard-9933F5.20100014062002@enews.newsguy.com>  4 In article <20020614212941.A25346@eisenschmidt.org>,4  John Eisenschmidt <jweisen@eisenschmidt.org> wrote:  > > I have to give props to Slashdot for their coverage of this: > P > http://features.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=02/06/14/1343223&mode=nocomment&ti > d=166s > M > "The sleaze has gotten out of hand; it's time to roast a group of 20 or so fH > companies whose profits are directly linked to creating fear in their O > customers, who have to keep discovering new sources of fear to improve their  I > bottom line - or in the absence of new discoveries, keep inventing new nN > sources of fear. Yes, it's time to take on the anti-virus software vendors."   Open-Source Anti-Virus (OSAV)?   --  # "Run in circles, scream and shout!". I hope you have good backups!g) Are there any more networked SJFs around?@   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 15 Jun 2002 00:42:32 GMT41 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>. Subject: Re: Open Letter to HP' Message-ID: <3D0A912A.77879A10@fsi.net>c   Nic Clews wrote: >  > John Smith wrote:tN > > Precisely correct, and necessary - both from a business security viewpoint& > > and from an advertising viewpoint. > >tN > > Run an ad on TV like that around several different types of shows to catchH > > the target audience - senior IT managers, CIO/CTO/COO/CFO/CEO types. > J > Which is exactly why mass advertising should be considered. The media goJ > to almost extreme lengths to categorize the viewers, and in essence, youI > do NOT need to capture a big proportion (percentage) of certain groups,e> > precisely due to the amount of investment control they have. > D > e.g. Joe Public in the street with some purchasing responsibility.H > Several hundred of him could only invest a tiny proportion of what Mr.F > CEO of some other corporation could, and you only need to get to far > less CEO's than Joe Publics.  E Trouble there is, the CxO's decide what to buy, but the "Joe Public"ssC decide what to propose to the CxO as choices. (CxO = CEO, CIO, CTO,i etc.)d  A If you shoot for the CxO's, you're leaving the job half done, andiF missing the important half. Suit-wearing CxO's will choose between theF options with which they are presented by their people. If you want theG CxO to choose VMS, you must first convince his underlings to propose itM to him as part of a solution.@  ? Speaking purely for myself, I've not seen cases where the staffsE presented the CxO with, for example, NT/W2K Vs. BSD or Linux, but theCG CxO told them, "No - I want you to look into this thing I read about onsF the plane called VMS". Many of them will probably leave his office andF ask each other, "WTF is VMS?" Even if they follow his directive, it'llB be a half-hearted effort at best and they'll likely come back withH something to the effect of, "Yeah, we looked at it, but it's overpriced,B it doesn't run on the Proliant Servers you specified as a standardD platform for the company, the hardware it does run on costs 2x to 5xH what the IA32 machines go for, there's no applications available and theD only folks in the job market who know anything about it are within aG decade or two of retirement and are expecting twice what you pay us fory their seniority".c   Negative? Certainly.  ? Reality? Judge by your own experience, that's all *I* can do...y  F My point is this: if you don't reach the "Joe Public"s, the CxO's will@ never see anyone other than the likes of me talking VMS to them.   -- n David J. Dachterar dba DJE Systemso http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/-   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2002 14:40:09 -0500rC From: "Craig A. Berry" <craig.berry@nospam.SignalTreeSolutions.com>t8 Subject: OpenVMS books (was Re: Could linux become VMS?)H Message-ID: <craig.berry-6643D2.14400914062002@news.directvinternet.com>  8 In article <00A0F686.E37D022E@SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>,H  winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU ("Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr")   wrote:"  O > In article <MtaO8.7014$831.5227@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>, "John  ! > Smith" <a@nonymous.com> writes:  > >Product Details > >- > >Paperback: 448 pagesuL > >Publisher: Digital Equipment Corp; ISBN: 1555582648; 1st edition (June 1, > >2002)  > >Amazon.com Sales Rank: 85,071 > L > That June 1 date would have been right if I'd hit all my deadlines, which  > I emphatically didn't.  B While we are on the subject of new OpenVMS books that are/were to G appear this month, does anyone have any news on the new Openvms System uH Management Guide by Lawrence Baldwin and Steve Hoffman?  It shows up on G amazon.com but not on bhusa.com.  I have a vague memory of ordering it o. ages ago but haven't heard anything in months.  O > >And to everyone who frequents this ng, let's help Alan's book reach #1 - buyiM > >a copy for each of your unix/Windows fan friends/bosses so they can learn.9 > @ > Yow.  I don't think there's anything I can safely say to that.  9 How about "Gee, I better get that proofreading done" :-).t   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2002 14:30:58 -0400t; From: "Brian Tillman" <tillman_brian@notnoone.notnohow.com>e# Subject: Re: OpenVMS Mailing Lists?o$ Message-ID: <3d0a365d$1@news.si.com>  1 >I am looking for a general OpenVMS mailing list.e  L Besides Info-VAX/comp.os.vms, there's a Yahoo! Group called OpenVMS_Friends.' Subscribe by sending a blank message toa* OpenVMS_Friends-subscribe@yahoogroups.com. --A Brian Tillman                   Internet: tillman_brian at si.comtA Smiths Aerospace                          tillman at swdev.si.com5= 3290 Patterson Ave. SE, MS      Addresses modified to preventm< Grand Rapids, MI 49512-1991     SPAM.  Replace "at" with "@"8        This opinion doesn't represent that of my company   ------------------------------    Date: 14 Jun 2002 15:32:02 -0600+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young)tA Subject: Re: Request for path balancing (Was: Re: Carly was here)s3 Message-ID: <WobwwklXM9Cl@eisner.encompasserve.org>    In article <aed5ea$72h$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <andrew_nospam.harrison_remove_this@sun#.com> writes: >  >  > Rob Young wrote: > r >> In article <27vN8.207307$%o.18579187@bin3.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>, "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> writes: >>   >> TK >>>Unfortunately, the only corporation in any reasonable position to createtL >>>such a system would be VMS's owner.  Lots of luck.  And while open sourceO >>>systems will undoubtedly over time acquire some of VMS's strengths, the Unix M >>>I/O model has always resisted full-blown support for asynchrony, so unlesscO >>>some non-Unix-like open-source system should appear I wouldn't hold out muchl >>>hope in that direction. >>>e >>>c >> s& >> 	Lacking asynchronous support, yep. >> n? >> 	Do you use AIO or multiple db_writers in an AIX environmente< >> 	with Oracle?  There is a school of thought that multiple% >> 	db_writers works better than AIO.S >>  8 >> 	PowerPath and/or SecurePath?  Sure, for broken OSes. >> nD >> 	You can layer features on an OS I suppose.  Fortunately, for VMS@ >> 	path switching comes tacitly, naturally.  The only advantage? >> 	of a PowerPath/SecurePath is load balancing.  So maybe thatoI >> 	is a future SET DEVICE enhancement?  Meaning via a SET DEVICE setting @ >> 	we can auto-switch if I/O reaches a pre-set threshold and/or >> 	"load"?t >> c >  > @ > Any system that uses Veritas Volume Manager, HP-UX for example9 > has a facility called DMP this provides path balancing.s > 9 > With Solaris you can use DMP if you are running VxVM orw > the native Solaris facility. > , > Bottom Line is most server OS's have this. >   ? 	I have to quibble quite a bit with that.  Let's say you aren'tCA 	using Veritas.  If  you are using fibre channel storage, EMC and D 	Compaq and IBM provide client software so that OSes can path switchA 	the storage on the fly.  You certainly don't need it if you have< 	a single HBA.  @ 	I'm not familiar with IBM's product but EMC's product is calledH 	PowerPath and Compaq product is called SecurePath.  The product doesn't; 	exist on/in VMS as it doesn't need to.  Switching is builth@ 	into the OS.  What isn't built into VMS is balancing, hence the 	request in the subject line.c   				Robt   ------------------------------    Date: 14 Jun 2002 13:52:05 -0700. From: SPAMSINK2001@YAHOO.COM (Alan E. Feldman)+ Subject: Re: rooted devices and /TRANS=CONCa= Message-ID: <343f30ae.0206141252.445552de@posting.google.com>n  | Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> wrote in message news:<01KIW1VAEFRS96WTPR@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>...I > >        o  When you specify an equivalence name that will be used as afH > >           file specification, you must include the punctuation marksG > >           (colons, brackets, periods) that would be required if the J > >           equivalence name were used directly as a file specification.G > >           Therefore, if you specify a device name as an equivalencerI > >           name, you must terminate the equivalence name with a colon.t > $ > Right, and this DOES make sense.   >  > $  DEFINE DISK$USER DSA0:o >  > $  DIR DISK$USER:[HELBIG]o > G > The colon in the argument of the DIR command is actually a separator aB > which says that what is to the left is a logical name.  This is K > translated into DSA0:[HELBIG] which is a proper file specification since IK > the colon here is part of the translation of the logical name.  At least t$ > that is how I think about it.  :-) > F > > Actually, this is also true when you specify a logical name as theB > > equivalence name if that logical name resolves to a file-spec. > J > THIS is what I find a) puzzling and b) not documented in HELP or in the J > BOOKREADER CD documentation set.  (Search Book(s) is really useful. :-))@ > I just pulled down VAX/VMS Internals and Data Structures.  :-|    C This is not the only undocumented thing in VMS. For logical names I B always found the documentation somewhat lacking when expaining howC access modes work. I don't see how you can get that just by readingxD the docs. And renaming group identifers, that's another undocumentedF thing, though it has made it into the FAQ. There are other undocuemted things.a  F Now I agree that omitting the trailing colon when the equivalence nameD is also another logical name should not necessarily cause a problem.F However, in practice, you are (AFAIK) always okay when you include theF trailing colon except for logical names that translate to queue names.F (OTOH, I've never had a problem using "$ DEFINE SYS$INPUT SYS$COMMAND"= for example, though it works the same with a trailing colon.)o    J > However, it DOES work if /TRANS=CONC is not specified!  I haven't found G > anything to indicate that /TRANS=CONC is supposed to have any effect hA > other than how the output from SHOW DEFAULT, DIRECTORY etc are h > formatted.     E Yes, you can sometimes get away without using the trailing colon, butrA if you always use it, you only have to worry about the queue namey3 exception (AFAIK, I haven't tested MAIL addresses).e     Re Queue Names:,   While you can do o       $ DEFINE CCC SYS$BATCH:s  
 You can't do t       $ DEFINE BBB CCC:i     $ DEFINE CCC SYS$BATCH:    $ SL BBB%    "BBB" = "CCC:" (LNM$PROCESS_TABLE)u* 1  "CCC" = "SYS$BATCH" (LNM$PROCESS_TABLE) $ SH QUE BBB %JBC-E-NOSUCHQUE, no such queue, $ DEFINE BBB CCC; %DCL-I-SUPERSEDE, previous value of BBB has been supersededl $ SL BBB$    "BBB" = "CCC" (LNM$PROCESS_TABLE)6 1  "CCC" = "SYS$BATCH" (LNM$PROCESS_TABLE)$ SH QUE BBB- Batch queue SYS$BATCH, available, on XXXXXX::. $/  C [Description of DEFINE HOME SYS$LOGIN type SET DEF bug omitted, but/ referred to below]I > > (BTW, this bug and another bug in SET DEFAULT are acknowledged in thegK > > release notes for VMS v5.5-2. These notes also say that these bugs willoK > > be fixed in a future release of VMS, but I checked on a V7.2 system and4I > > the SET DEF bugs are still there. Shameless plug alert!: Of course myA6 > > SET DEF program TO.COM fixes these SET DEF bugs.)  > % > Can you post it or email me a copy?"    # I will send you a copy via e-mail. s    I > > Bottom line: If you specify a device name or another (file-spec type) F > > logical name as the equivalence name in a DEFINE command, you must/ > > terminate the equivalence name with colon. J > - > Again, it DOES work if it is not concealed.     F OK, instead of "must", make that "it's a very good idea to" unless the, logical name will translate to a queue name.   >  > > I don't know why.S >  > SOMEone must know!     Disclaimer: JMHO Alan E. Feldman " afeldman atski gfigroup dotski com   ------------------------------    Date: 14 Jun 2002 14:08:07 -0700. From: SPAMSINK2001@YAHOO.COM (Alan E. Feldman)+ Subject: Re: rooted devices and /TRANS=CONCn= Message-ID: <343f30ae.0206141308.13385935@posting.google.com>s  ` "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote in message news:<3D095F1D.8791DAEC@fsi.net>... > Phillip Helbig wrote:n > > F > > > It is important to use a trailing colon. Only then does it work: > >  > > OK, but WHY? > D > Well, you might be able to illustrate that for yourself. Try this: > > > $ sy0 = f$getdvi( "sys$sysdevice", "alldevnam" ) - "_" - ":"! > $ dflt = f$environ( "default" )c) > $ write sys$output f$parse( sy0, dflt )  > $ define sy0 &sy0o+ > $ write sys$output f$parse( "sy0", dflt )l > $ sy0 = sy0 + ":" ) > $ write sys$output f$parse( sy0, dflt )p > $ define sy0 &sy0d+ > $ write sys$output f$parse( "sy0", dflt )  > $ deas sy0  ; This works only if your default is an existing directory on D sys$sysdevice. But it does not address the question. The question isC why you need a trailing colon for the case where you are defining ad( logical name to be another logical name.   Example:       $ DEFINE AAA BBB     $ DEFINE BBB DKA0:  E Why should you need a trailing colon in the first command? This works-$ for some situations, but not others.   Example:   $ SL AAA$    "AAA" = "BBB" (LNM$PROCESS_TABLE)( 1  "BBB" = "DKA100:" (LNM$PROCESS_TABLE) $ SET DEF AAA:[FELDMAN]D
 $ DIREC/TOTAL@  n Directory DKA100:[FELDMAN]  H Total of 74 files. $ DEFINE AAA BBB /TRANS=CONC; %DCL-I-SUPERSEDE, previous value of AAA has been supersededu
 $ DIREC/TOTAL ) %DIRECT-E-OPENIN, error opening  as input.A -RMS-F-DEV, error in device name or inappropriate device type fore	 operationc
 $ SHOW DEF   AAA:[FELDMAN].+ %DCL-I-INVDEF, AAA:[FELDMAN] does not exist  $ DEFINE AAA BBB: /TRANS=CONCa; %DCL-I-SUPERSEDE, previous value of AAA has been supersededo $ sh def   AAA:[FELDMAN]-
 $ DIREC/TOTAL-  - Directory AAA:[FELDMAN]2  : Total of 74 files.    < Here we see that omitting the colon works fine until you addA /TRANS=CONC. If you put the trailing colon back, then /TRANS=CONC5< works fine. Why? That is what the original poster is asking.  B Then there is the famous DEFINE HOME SYS$LOGIN bug for SET DEFAULT) which I already discussed in this thread.c   Disclaimer: JMHO Alan E. Feldman " afeldman atski gfigroup dotski com   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 15 Jun 2002 01:25:55 GMTb1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>e+ Subject: Re: rooted devices and /TRANS=CONCo' Message-ID: <3D0A9B55.336DEE2B@fsi.net>    "Alan E. Feldman" wrote: > b > "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote in message news:<3D095F1D.8791DAEC@fsi.net>... > > Phillip Helbig wrote:M > > >qH > > > > It is important to use a trailing colon. Only then does it work: > > >m > > > OK, but WHY? > > F > > Well, you might be able to illustrate that for yourself. Try this: > >q@ > > $ sy0 = f$getdvi( "sys$sysdevice", "alldevnam" ) - "_" - ":"# > > $ dflt = f$environ( "default" )t+ > > $ write sys$output f$parse( sy0, dflt ). > > $ define sy0 &sy0G- > > $ write sys$output f$parse( "sy0", dflt )h > > $ sy0 = sy0 + ":" + > > $ write sys$output f$parse( sy0, dflt )  > > $ define sy0 &sy0 - > > $ write sys$output f$parse( "sy0", dflt )a > > $ deas sy0 > = > This works only if your default is an existing directory ono > sys$sysdevice.  B Exactly the point. Let's look at the output on my hobbyist's Alpha machine:  < $ sy0 = f$getdvi( "sys$sysdevice", "alldevnam" ) - "_" - ":" $ dflt = f$environ( "default" )-' $ write sys$output f$parse( sy0, dflt )  DKA0:[DDACHTERA]DJAS01$DKA300.;r $ define sy0 &sy0<) $ write sys$output f$parse( "sy0", dflt )c DKA0:[DDACHTERA]DJAS01$DKA300.;m  F In the above, note that the translation of the logical name is treatedH as a filename rather than the device name, as it was intended. So, let's2 add the colon onto the end and see what happens...   $ sy0 = sy0 + ":"g' $ write sys$output f$parse( sy0, dflt )g   $ define sy0 &sy0b; %DCL-I-SUPERSEDE, previous value of SY0 has been superseded ) $ write sys$output f$parse( "sy0", dflt )   
 $ deas sy0  A Hhmmm... F$PARSE() returns a null string - *BUT* that's what it's0D SUPPOSED to do! Now that "SY0" means "DJAS01@DKA300:" (a device nameC instead of a potential filename, the entire expression equates to aSC device/path that does not exist; hence, the function returns a null  string!m  ' > But it does not address the question.a  B Well, yes it does. Not convinced? Let's carry that a step further:  	 $ set verl $ @dfn
 $ set noon< $ sy0 = f$getdvi( "sys$sysdevice", "alldevnam" ) - "_" - ":" $ dflt = f$environ( "default" ) ' $ write sys$output f$parse( sy0, dflt )  DKA0:[DDACHTERA]DJAS01$DKA300.;  $ define sy0 &sy0l) $ write sys$output f$parse( "sy0", dflt )5 DKA0:[DDACHTERA]DJAS01$DKA300.;c  $ copy/log nla0: sy0:sample.file8 %COPY-F-OPENOUT, error opening SY0:SAMPLE.FILE as output -RMS-F-FNM, error in file name $! $ sy0 = sy0 + ":"n' $ write sys$output f$parse( sy0, dflt )4   $ define sy0 &sy0e; %DCL-I-SUPERSEDE, previous value of SY0 has been supersededn) $ write sys$output f$parse( "sy0", dflt )e    $ copy/log nla0: sy0:sample.fileG %COPY-E-OPENOUT, error opening DJAS01$DKA300:[DDACHTERA]SAMPLE.FILE; asu output -RMS-E-DNF, directory not found." -SYSTEM-W-NOSUCHFILE, no such file
 $ deas sy0   > The question isDE > why you need a trailing colon for the case where you are defining ay* > logical name to be another logical name.  @ ...and that also answers the question, just in a different way.     Now, let's look at your example:   > 
 > Example: >  >     $ DEFINE AAA BBB >     $ DEFINE BBB DKA0: > G > Why should you need a trailing colon in the first command? This works & > for some situations, but not others. > 
 > Example: > 
 > $ SL AAA& >    "AAA" = "BBB" (LNM$PROCESS_TABLE)* > 1  "BBB" = "DKA100:" (LNM$PROCESS_TABLE) > $ SET DEF AAA:[FELDMAN]t > $ DIREC/TOTAL  >  > Directory DKA100:[FELDMAN] >  > Total of 74 files. > $ DEFINE AAA BBB /TRANS=CONC= > %DCL-I-SUPERSEDE, previous value of AAA has been supersededa > $ DIREC/TOTALo+ > %DIRECT-E-OPENIN, error opening  as input C > -RMS-F-DEV, error in device name or inappropriate device type foru > operationb > $ SHOW DEF >   AAA:[FELDMAN]c- > %DCL-I-INVDEF, AAA:[FELDMAN] does not existv  E Hhmmm. We've seen *THAT* before, have we not? (Remember how F$PARSE()t$ behaved above? ...the COPY command?)   > $ DEFINE AAA BBB: /TRANS=CONC,= > %DCL-I-SUPERSEDE, previous value of AAA has been supersededi
 > $ sh def >   AAA:[FELDMAN]j > $ DIREC/TOTALu >  > Directory AAA:[FELDMAN]  >  > Total of 74 files. > > > Here we see that omitting the colon works fine until you addC > /TRANS=CONC. If you put the trailing colon back, then /TRANS=CONCC> > works fine. Why? That is what the original poster is asking.  F ...and the other two examples also answered the question. Your exampleG illustrates the same anomaly, just from yet another perspective. Six ofy one, half dozen of another.   D > Then there is the famous DEFINE HOME SYS$LOGIN bug for SET DEFAULT+ > which I already discussed in this thread.   D Note, whoever, that SYS$LOGIN is not only already a logical name, itH indicates both a device and a directory path. I believe you'll find that( *THIS* distinction makes the difference.   Observe:   $ sh log sys$sylogin;    "SYS$SYLOGIN" = "SYS$MANAGER:SYLOGIN" (LNM$SYSTEM_TABLE). $ type sys$syloginG %TYPE-W-SEARCHFAIL, error searching for SYS$COMMON:[SYSMGR]SYLOGIN.LIS;a -RMS-E-FNF, file not found  - You expected that, right? Now check this out:c   $ type sys$sylogin:.comm $!VERIFY = 'F$VERIFY(0),% $!IF F$MODE() .EQS. "OTHER" THEN EXIT/A $! Remove the comments from the above commands to support the 'r'0 commandsH $! when using all OpenVMS TCP/IP products.  Consult vendor documentation forr $! more information. [snip]   Does THAT help?   C ...or do you want the machine to do what you meant and not what youJ said?"   -- e David J. Dachtera. dba DJE Systemsa http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/o   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2002 14:46:26 -0500 C From: "Craig A. Berry" <craig.berry@nospam.SignalTreeSolutions.com>s; Subject: Re: SSH v2 (was Re: OpenVMS, Volume Desktop OS...)nH Message-ID: <craig.berry-D5C343.14462614062002@news.directvinternet.com>   In article v= <craig.berry-DE7718.13465107062002@news.directvinternet.com>,rE  "Craig A. Berry" <craig.berry@nospam.SignalTreeSolutions.com> wrote:   G > In article <adqst1$am3$1@aquila.mdx.ac.uk>, david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk o > wrote: > N > > I believe Multinet and TCPWARE will shortly (if they do not already) have & > > version 2 SSH clients and servers. > I > v2 is shipping in Multinet.  It looks like it should be in TCPWare any  
 > day now. > P > > Dec TCPIP services though, despite frequent requests, seems not to have any + > > firm plans for providing SSH version 2.r > F > A year ago they had no plans.  Now they have plans, but perhaps not  > much more than that yet. -  H I just noticed on the Process Software site today that they now have an 4 SSH product for TCP/IP Services 4.2 and later.  See G <http://www.process.com/tcpip/ssh.html>.  So that's good news, but the 2E cost of an add-on will probably be a real difficulty for some of the e@ places, like universities, that are most eager to implement SSH  everywhere.4   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2002 21:12:10 +0200mB From: Michiel Erens <I.dont.want.spam@this.mailaddress.is.invalid> Subject: Re: unix history17 Message-ID: <3D0A400A.22A9@this.mailaddress.is.invalid>y   Atlant Schmidt wrote:r >  > Nic Clews wrote: > $ > > UNIX has only 67 years to go :-) > >i" > > VMS has another 290 CENTURIES. > 4 > Actually, much of the excrement's going to hit the> > ventilator on Tuesday, January 19, 2038 at GMT 03:14:07 UTC.; > The next second, the clock spills over into bit <31>, andb6 > we'll get to see how many C applications (on *MANY*,+ > *MANY* operating systems *INCLUDING* VMS)o0 > mistakenly treated time_t as a signed integer.  > If you're interested in critical dates, there is a BIG list at+  http://www.merlyn.demon.co.uk/critdate.htm    -- I ME Posted by news://news.nb.nu    ------------------------------    Date: 14 Jun 2002 14:35:58 -0600+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young)d# Subject: VMS advertising suggestion	3 Message-ID: <AOrY43M5jVs6@eisner.encompasserve.org>p  O         There is a full page ad in the back of yesterday's Wall Street Journal  H         Marketplace section page B12.  It features a success story using7         IBM's iSeries server (OS/400) and Omaha Steaks.y  H         This is the type of ad that would work very well for VMS.  A bigG         VMS success story.  Maybe co-branding with Etrade for instance.v  #                                 Robt   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2002 21:15:41 GMT * From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>' Subject: Re: VMS advertising suggestioniB Message-ID: <12tO8.224791$%y.20406389@bin4.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>  8 "Rob Young" <young_r@encompasserve.org> wrote in message- news:AOrY43M5jVs6@eisner.encompasserve.org...O > H >         There is a full page ad in the back of yesterday's Wall Street Journal J >         Marketplace section page B12.  It features a success story using9 >         IBM's iSeries server (OS/400) and Omaha Steaks.h >tJ >         This is the type of ad that would work very well for VMS.  A big >         VMS success story.  J And once VMS is running on Itanic, you could show it *cooking* the steaks.   - bill   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 15 Jun 2002 01:47:14 GMTi1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>n' Subject: Re: VMS advertising suggestioni' Message-ID: <3D0AA057.3D5DC150@fsi.net>-   Bill Todd wrote: > : > "Rob Young" <young_r@encompasserve.org> wrote in message/ > news:AOrY43M5jVs6@eisner.encompasserve.org...i > >nJ > >         There is a full page ad in the back of yesterday's Wall Street	 > JournaliL > >         Marketplace section page B12.  It features a success story using; > >         IBM's iSeries server (OS/400) and Omaha Steaks.y > >eL > >         This is the type of ad that would work very well for VMS.  A big > >         VMS success story. > L > And once VMS is running on Itanic, you could show it *cooking* the steaks.  F ...and by the time that happens (VMS on a viable, ready-for-prime-timeF Itanic), a good number more of us will be asking about that steak, "Do you want fries with that?"   -- u David J. Dachterau dba DJE Systemsh http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/D   ------------------------------    Date: 14 Jun 2002 09:10:19 -0600+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) = Subject: Re: VMS as a example of disaster and fault tolerancei3 Message-ID: <ytJaAcZF7r21@eisner.encompasserve.org>n  b In article <ugjlg17i54uo50@corp.supernews.com>, "Alan Boyles" <alan.boyles@mindspring.com> writes:K > Actually I believe there were 6 disaster tolerant VMS clusters in the WTCa? > and 5 survived, the 6th was clustered between the 2 towers.  e  A 	Major nit.  The 6th cluster you are describing is NOT a disastern= 	tolerant cluster.  You can't use that language (with a clear ; 	conscience) when the "remote" site is across the street or D 	a few hundred yards away.  The appropriate term is "fault tolerant"8 	cluster.  Both buildings on separate UPS, multiple comm; 	links, etc. such that any single physical failure will notw 	render the cluster down.t   > Cerner has beentI > working with 2 types of disasater tolerant VMS clusters using there HNAeJ > software.  We are also actively selling Disaster Recovery services whichF > incorporate Disaster Tolerant clusters as a piece of this service.    ? 	Hopefully your literature points out some of the pros and conse2 	of having a remote site a few hundred yards away.  ? 	Keith Parris claims to have had set up the longest (distance)  ? 	disaster tolerant cluster for a West Coast client.  SacrementoeA 	to Palo Alto - about 120-130 miles.  He also mentions that later,9 	they moved the Palo Alto site to within 10 miles of the o 	Sacremento site.   N http://www.geocities.com/keithparris/decus_presentations/s99_long_distance.ppt   	C > HNA isL > based on Oracle so disaster tolerance using Oracle can be done in a coupleK > of ways, we happen to be doing it with a standby database, which probably 5 > would not be construed as true disaster tolerance, o  @ 	Sure, why not?  If the remote database is synchronous (assuming> 	it is of course) and 20 miles away, why wouldn't that qualify 	as "disaster tolerant?"   				RobH   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2002 16:42:57 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>B= Subject: Re: VMS as a example of disaster and fault tolerance , Message-ID: <3D0A5551.9F3DB674@videotron.ca>  " Sue posted about Cantor Fitzgerald  1 Su, nice story, but I didn't see mention of VMS. C  3 What would have been *really* nice is text such as:C  K "our VMS based systems continued to work, switching the load to our 2 otherDM centres in Rochelle and London" and most of our staff's time was concentrated L on rebuilding the other systems whose disaster recovery capablities were not as sophisticated".  I Now, such a statement would have been *REALLY NICE*. But we know never toi expect such.   ------------------------------    Date: 14 Jun 2002 15:46:30 -0600+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young)o= Subject: Re: VMS as a example of disaster and fault tolerance 3 Message-ID: <KWDpywGs9owb@eisner.encompasserve.org>i  \ In article <3D0A5551.9F3DB674@videotron.ca>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> writes:$ > Sue posted about Cantor Fitzgerald > 3 > Su, nice story, but I didn't see mention of VMS. e >   ? 	That is because your vision is so clouded with finding badnessfE 	in most everything, you aren't willing to even look and double checkr& 	before you make such wild assertions.  7  The north tower impact took out eSpeed's operations onyI the 103rd floor, which included some 250 Compaq Computer Corp. and Sun   mI Microsystems Inc. servers running Windows NT, Alpha/OpenVMS and Solaris. J   				Rob0   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2002 21:19:16 GMTr* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>= Subject: Re: VMS as a example of disaster and fault tolerance B Message-ID: <o5tO8.244307$Kp.20965313@bin7.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>  8 "Rob Young" <young_r@encompasserve.org> wrote in message- news:KWDpywGs9owb@eisner.encompasserve.org...n7 > In article <3D0A5551.9F3DB674@videotron.ca>, JF Mezeii& <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> writes:& > > Sue posted about Cantor Fitzgerald > >s4 > > Su, nice story, but I didn't see mention of VMS. > >  >f@ > That is because your vision is so clouded with finding badnessF > in most everything, you aren't willing to even look and double check' > before you make such wild assertions.d > 9 >  The north tower impact took out eSpeed's operations on0H > the 103rd floor, which included some 250 Compaq Computer Corp. and SunJ > Microsystems Inc. servers running Windows NT, Alpha/OpenVMS and Solaris.  H While JF is hardly legendary for his accuracy, the fact remains that theJ story left the reader with the impression that all the above platforms mayL (or may not) have contributed to the system's overall robustness, hence onlyL succeeded in getting a mention of VMS's name rather than its superiority out into the world."   - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2002 22:44:28 -0400:' From: "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@hp.com> = Subject: RE: VMS as a example of disaster and fault toleranceNT Message-ID: <BE56C50EA024184DAF48F0B9A47F5CF40266078A@kaoexc01.americas.cpqcorp.net>  	 'o-Dzin -N  G >>> I would appreciate a few examples of VMS configurations designed toi" deal with faults and disasters.<<<  G I suspect the reference by a few of the folks to the well known example D of OpenVMS's multi-site cluster capabilities that actually did occur) might be this one: Credit Lyonnais fire -M  J http://www.success-stories.compaq.com/css/cgi-bin/cssextusr/s=3Ddisplay/i= =3De 30=20 G ""If you lose your data, you're down for several months. In the capital F markets, that means you are dead. The VMS Clusters were very effective at protecting the data."=20n  # Other testimonials can be found at:O0 http://www.openvms.compaq.com/openvms/brochures/  E http://www.openvms.compaq.com/openvms/brochures/swiss-stock-exchange/nF "Within the Exchange, SWX Swiss Exchange has several disaster tolerantG clusters, using primarily Compaq AlphaServer systems running the Compaqi OpenVMS operating system."  4 http://www.openvms.compaq.com/openvms/brochures/ise/H "Disaster-tolerant OpenVMS clusters consisting of six Compaq AlphaServer@ DS20 and 10 Compaq AlphaServer ES40 systems running in redundant configurations"e   Regards,  
 Kerry Main Senior Consultant  Hewlett-Packard Canada! Consulting & Integration Services  Voice: 613-592-4660  Fax   : 613-591-4477 Email: Kerry.Main@hp.com     -----Original Message-----7 From: O-Dzin Tridral [mailto:TridralO@Cardiff.ac.uk]=20" Sent: June 14, 2002 5:33 AMn To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com 9 Subject: VMS as a example of disaster and fault tolerance     H I would appreciate a few examples of VMS configurations designed to deal with faults and disasters.  C The reason for my query is that I have an opportunity to talk about,B improving reliability of systems.  Although VMS usage is graduallyH decreasing at Cardiff, I have a background of 14 years experience from a: previous job and I know a little of what it is capable of.  D Unfortunately I never played a system management role and so was notE directly involved in configuration.  However our system manager in myRF previous job had been extremely successful in creating a number of VMS8 installations that served the business very well indeed.  G Some real-world example of the service VMS provides to businesses would H be helpful, and some technical notes, if possible re clustering (how farE apart do you keep your cluster members, what do you use to link them)$? and volume shadowing (how far apart do you keep your shadow setE	 members).s  G The kind of server systems we use (netware, NT, Sun) provide databases, B files, disk space and print services.  The clients are mostly WNT, moving to XP at some stage.t   Thank you for any information.   'o-Dzina   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2002 22:29:20 GMTt7 From: trevor.osatchuk@nospam.pscl.com (Trevor Osatchuk)c$ Subject: volume not software enabled5 Message-ID: <3d0a6bca.372513155@news.telusplanet.net>e  ; I made a backup of an OpenVMS 6.2 server with the followingl( command(booted from OS cdrom of course):  6 mount /image/verify dka100: mka200:14062002.sav/rewind label=sourcesave  @ The backup completed and then during the verify I got the error:   Volume is not software enabled.   F I have been googling for this I haven't been able to find anything.  IE had just previously saved dka0 with the same command without a hitch..C dka0 is system disk whereas dka100 contains source code.  What doesn1 that error mean?  Also, how can I verify that thei   -- & Trev  ? Any man whose errors take ten years to correct is quite a man. t?           - J. Robert Oppenheimer, speaking of Albert Einstein l   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2002 21:20:29 -0400;1 From: Michael Austin <maustin@firstdbasource.com>S( Subject: Re: volume not software enabled2 Message-ID: <3D0A965D.13545290@firstdbasource.com>   Trevor Osatchuk wrote: > = > I made a backup of an OpenVMS 6.2 server with the followinga* > command(booted from OS cdrom of course): > 8 > mount /image/verify dka100: mka200:14062002.sav/rewind > label=sourcesave > B > The backup completed and then during the verify I got the error: > ! > Volume is not software enabled.i > H > I have been googling for this I haven't been able to find anything.  IG > had just previously saved dka0 with the same command without a hitch.RE > dka0 is system disk whereas dka100 contains source code.  What doest3 > that error mean?  Also, how can I verify that theE >  > -- > Trev > @ > Any man whose errors take ten years to correct is quite a man.@ >           - J. Robert Oppenheimer, speaking of Albert Einstein    2 I doubt that you did anything with that command...  2 http://www.openvms.compaq.com/wizard/wiz_4181.html -N   $ help mount /imageA MOUNTA)   Sorry, no documentation on MOUNT /IMAGEA  $ Make sure the tape is in and "ready"( Tape labels are limited to 6 characters   - $init mka200: srcsav         !!Label the tapeI: $mount/foreign mka200        !!mount the tape - Not needed: $BACK /image/verify dka100: mka200:14062002.sav/save_set -       /rewind /label=srcsav @ or you can use /ignore=label or explicitly define the label withH /label=<label> If you do neither, BACKUP will assume the label to be the. first 6 characters of the backup saveset name.  F Basically it means the software no longer sees the tape drive as being
 available.   -- e Regards,  7 Michael Austin            Registered Linux User #261163v7 First DBA Source, Inc.    http://www.firstdbasource.comi Sr. Consultant 704-947-1089 (Office)f 704-236-4377 (Mobile)    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2002 14:52:27 -0700t' From: JMK <jeffrey.m.klopotic@lmco.com>e Subject: __asm__ in DEC CXXr( Message-ID: <3D0A659B.F6DF2485@lmco.com>  E I have some C++ code that has some assembler in it, and it appears by C the conspicuous lack of any reference to assembler in my DEC/Compaqs) manuals that ... oh, well, I'd just vent.n  G How does one invoke what would be an otherwise straightforward assemblyx routine in DEC/Compaq/HP CXX?h  G It keeps telling me it doesn't like '__asm__', that it is unrecognized.(   TIA,
 Jeff KlopoticI   ------------------------------    Date: 14 Jun 2002 19:31:15 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)o Subject: Re: __asm__ in DEC CXXi3 Message-ID: <ZiXmsZ7rztnv@eisner.encompasserve.org>e  R In article <3D0A659B.F6DF2485@lmco.com>, JMK <jeffrey.m.klopotic@lmco.com> writes:G > I have some C++ code that has some assembler in it, and it appears bynE > the conspicuous lack of any reference to assembler in my DEC/Compaqo+ > manuals that ... oh, well, I'd just vent.r > I > How does one invoke what would be an otherwise straightforward assemblya > routine in DEC/Compaq/HP CXX?: > I > It keeps telling me it doesn't like '__asm__', that it is unrecognized.4  D If that lexeme caused the compiler to accept assembler instructions,D would you expect those to be instructions appropriate to Macro32 forA VAX, Macro32 for Alpha, Macro64 for Alpha, Macro32 for Itanium ofe. whatever the native assembler is for Itanium ?  C I don't see how "some C++ code that has some assembler in it" couldrE be expected to work on VMS when brought in from elsewhere, even if wer. restrict the "elsewhere" to other VMS systems.   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2002.329 ************************ frequent requests, seems not to have any + > > firm plans for providing SSH version 2.r > F > A year ago they had no plans.  Now they have plans, but perhaps not  > much                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                