1 INFO-VAX	Mon, 17 Jun 2002	Volume 2002 : Issue 334       Contents:@ Re: "We stay with VMS because we have forgotten that we have it"@ Re: "We stay with VMS because we have forgotten that we have it"# Re: A [departure from] VMS Disaster # Re: A [departure from] VMS Disaster 3 Re: Another analyst says VMS port won't be finished 3 Re: Another analyst says VMS port won't be finished 3 Re: Another analyst says VMS port won't be finished 3 Re: Another analyst says VMS port won't be finished  Re: Apache 2.0 and Tomcat 4.0  RE: Apache 2.0 and Tomcat 4.0 9 Re: Common File Qualifiers (was: Could linux become VMS?)  Re: Could linux become VMS?  Re: Could linux become VMS?  Re: Could linux become VMS?  Re: Could linux become VMS?  Re: Could linux become VMS?  Re: Could linux become VMS?  Re: Could linux become VMS?  Re: Could linux become VMS?  Re: Could linux become VMS?  Re: Could linux become VMS?  Re: Could linux become VMS?  Re: Could linux become VMS?  Re: Could linux become VMS?  Re: Could linux become VMS?  Re: Could linux become VMS? @ Re: Fastest CD-R or CD-RW capabilities for burning under OpenVMS install image /write/resident ? Re: Interesting ZDnet post about Tandem -- Can VMS do the same? ? Re: Interesting ZDnet post about Tandem -- Can VMS do the same? ? Re: Interesting ZDnet post about Tandem -- Can VMS do the same? < Introducing the Remote Diagnostic Agent (RDA) for Oracle Rdb Re: Linus' comments about VMS  Re: Linus' comments about VMS  Re: Linus' comments about VMS  Re: Linus' comments about VMS  more tpu doubts  Re: more tpu doubts  Re: more tpu doubts , Re: My conversation with Linus about VMS ..., Re: My conversation with Linus about VMS ..., Re: My conversation with Linus about VMS ..., Re: My conversation with Linus about VMS .... Re: One of Terry's shoes seems to have dropped. Re: One of Terry's shoes seems to have dropped. Re: One of Terry's shoes seems to have dropped Re: Open Letter to HP  Re: Open Letter to HP P Press Release from Process - Process Software announced today Secure Shell (SSH)8 Re: Request for path balancing (Was: Re: Carly was here)8 Re: Request for path balancing (Was: Re: Carly was here)8 Re: Request for path balancing (Was: Re: Carly was here)" Re: rooted devices and /TRANS=CONC Re: SET WATCH question2 Re: SSH v2 (was Re: OpenVMS, Volume Desktop OS...)1 Re: Sun is on the way out!  Only HP and IBM left! 1 Re: Sun is on the way out!  Only HP and IBM left!  Re: unix history Re: unix history Re: unix history= Re: Urgent help required( Link command getting struck in vax) 5 Re: US FDA ponders Slowaris over VMS ... what morons! 5 Re: US FDA ponders Slowaris over VMS ... what morons! 5 Re: US FDA ponders Slowaris over VMS ... what morons! 5 Re: US FDA ponders Slowaris over VMS ... what morons!  Re: VMS advertising suggestion4 Re: VMS as a example of disaster and fault tolerance, Re: What kind of morons work at the FDA now?, Re: What kind of morons work at the FDA now?, Re: What kind of morons work at the FDA now?( Re: What process is using this pagefile?' Re: Why is Compaq memory so expensive ? * Re: Why is TCPIP$ROUTE.DAT in SYS$COMMON ?* Re: Why is TCPIP$ROUTE.DAT in SYS$COMMON ?  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2002 18:07:05 +0200 E From: Jan C. =?iso-8859-1?Q?Vorbr=FCggen?= <jvorbrueggen@mediasec.de> I Subject: Re: "We stay with VMS because we have forgotten that we have it" + Message-ID: <3D0E0929.E4612B33@mediasec.de>   I > And when the time of this VAX h/w is coming (more likely this year than K > later) and you won't get spare parts any longer, then you HAVE TO discard L > the whole system alltogether (like it or not) and replacing it with what ?J > The application probably wasn't touched/improved for a decade, probably L > also won't run on OpenVMS Alpha (probably, because who did care so far ?)   " Charon-VAX will be their friend...   	Jan   ------------------------------  + Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2002 09:11:59 -0700 (PDT) . From: Fabio Cardoso <fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br>I Subject: Re: "We stay with VMS because we have forgotten that we have it" @ Message-ID: <20020617161159.11802.qmail@web20207.mail.yahoo.com>   People    + We need a Charon-Alpha or Charon-Itanium or  Charon Stone !!!!!     Regards    FC  2 --- "Jan C. Vorbrggen" <jvorbrueggen@mediasec.de> wrote:5 > > And when the time of this VAX h/w is coming (more  > likely this year than 4 > > later) and you won't get spare parts any longer, > then you HAVE TO discard5 > > the whole system alltogether (like it or not) and  > replacing it with what ?4 > > The application probably wasn't touched/improved > for a decade, probably  6 > > also won't run on OpenVMS Alpha (probably, because > who did care so far ?)   > $ > Charon-VAX will be their friend... >  > 	Jan     =====  ========================== Fbio dos Santos Cardoso OpenVMS System Manager Rio de Janeiro - Brazil  fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br ==========================  2 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!?0 Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2002 08:30:34 -0400 2 From: Atlant Schmidt <atlantnospam@mindspring.com>, Subject: Re: A [departure from] VMS Disaster. Message-ID: <3D0DD66A.BC7C16AF@mindspring.com>  D > in netscape edit-> preferences-> messages-> wrap at 72 characters. >  > how hard is that? :)  ) Well, actually, the numerical wrap is for " *OUTGOING* messages, but the "Wrap% *INCOMING* plain text messages to the ( window width" checkbox *DOES* sound like a good suggestion; thanks!  - I'll try it and see what side-effects, if any + it has. (E.g., does Netscape know enough to ) also wrap on printout? It's not always so  clever about web page text!)  ' But as you (doubtless) know, it's still & considered good netiquette to wrap all( plain-text messages to something like 72, or 79 columns, so John may still want to act on my suggestion.    Atlant   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2002 13:02:56 -0400 ; From: "Brian Tillman" <tillman_brian@notnoone.notnohow.com> , Subject: Re: A [departure from] VMS Disaster$ Message-ID: <3d0e1638$1@news.si.com>  3 John Eisenschmidt (jweisen@eisenschmidt.org) wrote:    <...snip...>  E What I want to know is why do your messages all show up as blank with  attachments? --A Brian Tillman                   Internet: tillman_brian at si.com A Smiths Aerospace                          tillman at swdev.si.com = 3290 Patterson Ave. SE, MS      Addresses modified to prevent < Grand Rapids, MI 49512-1991     SPAM.  Replace "at" with "@"8        This opinion doesn't represent that of my company   ------------------------------   Date: 17 Jun 2002 13:54:54 GMT1 From: bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) < Subject: Re: Another analyst says VMS port won't be finished+ Message-ID: <aekpnf$o6f$1@info.cs.uofs.edu>   - In article <eQJO8.41670$nZ3.11032@rwcrnsc53>, 4  "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com> writes: |>  N |> There of course is plenty of room for HPQ to stop handing money over to GG.N |> If HPQ is into S&M, there are cheaper ways to be abused than to retain a GG  |> analyst to perform the abuse.  B Unless, of course, GG is doing exactly what HPQ wants them to do!!   bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2002 15:43:55 GMT 1 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com> < Subject: Re: Another analyst says VMS port won't be finished= Message-ID: <%snP8.61162$R61.15422@rwcrnsc52.ops.asp.att.net>   > "Bill Gunshannon" <bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu> wrote in message% news:aekpnf$o6f$1@info.cs.uofs.edu... / > In article <eQJO8.41670$nZ3.11032@rwcrnsc53>, 6 >  "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com> writes: > |>L > |> There of course is plenty of room for HPQ to stop handing money over to GG. K > |> If HPQ is into S&M, there are cheaper ways to be abused than to retain  a GG" > |> analyst to perform the abuse. > D > Unless, of course, GG is doing exactly what HPQ wants them to do!!  J Not bloodly likely. I suspect that HPQ would like to be treated in a fair,J unbiased manner. Fortunately there are market research firms out there who" conduct themselves in that manner.   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2002 15:56:17 GMT # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> < Subject: Re: Another analyst says VMS port won't be finishedJ Message-ID: <BEnP8.372089$t8_.304489@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>  > "Bill Gunshannon" <bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu> wrote in message% news:aekpnf$o6f$1@info.cs.uofs.edu...  > D > Unless, of course, GG is doing exactly what HPQ wants them to do!!  H So GG really controls the Board of Directors, or so it would seem.   ;-)   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2002 12:09:50 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> < Subject: Re: Another analyst says VMS port won't be finished, Message-ID: <3D0E09CD.B8726939@videotron.ca>   "Terry C. Shannon" wrote: L > Not bloodly likely. I suspect that HPQ would like to be treated in a fair,L > unbiased manner. Fortunately there are market research firms out there who$ > conduct themselves in that manner.  N But doesn't Carly set her vision of computing based on the Gartner reports she reads ?????     M In that light, she has taken the actions and strategic directions which agree  with Gartner,s recommendations.    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2002 06:33:34 -0700 , From: "James Gessling" <jgessling@yahoo.com>& Subject: Re: Apache 2.0 and Tomcat 4.04 Message-ID: <aekofg$7mpgj$1@ID-46415.news.dfncis.de>  L I wouldn't be in too much of a hurry for Tomcat  4.  I downloaded 4.0.3 onto a Linux box K and it just plain didn't work.  Problems finding and loading classes.  This  version was billedG as the "stable" release.  4.0.4(beta 3) worked better for me, but it is  still beta.    Jim     8 "Marty Kuhrt" <kuhrt@encompasserve.org> wrote in message- news:iMMT0Z8yn6of@eisner.encompasserve.org... G > Anyone have an idea when Apache 2.0 (CSWS) and Tomcat 4.0 (CSWS_JAVA)  > will be available for VMS?   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2002 09:59:06 -0400 # From: "Dan Allen" <dallen@nist.gov> & Subject: RE: Apache 2.0 and Tomcat 4.0: Message-ID: <NEBBIALHDHJMJINPGMOAIELBEMAA.dallen@nist.gov>  I 	The classpath setup in 4.0.3 is much different than that in 3.x but I've I 	had no problem getting it to work. Actually behaves like the doc's (???) I 	say it should with regard to jar files which 3.0 most definitly did not!   J 	The only problem I've had is with the auto-configuration of the IIS ISAPIK 	plugin which generates bogus registry settings if you are using the latest ) 	version of the plugin (wrong file name).    	Dan   > -----Original Message-----3 > From: James Gessling [mailto:jgessling@yahoo.com] % > Sent: Monday, June 17, 2002 9:34 AM  > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com ( > Subject: Re: Apache 2.0 and Tomcat 4.0 >  > N > I wouldn't be in too much of a hurry for Tomcat  4.  I downloaded 4.0.3 onto
 > a Linux box M > and it just plain didn't work.  Problems finding and loading classes.  This  > version was billedI > as the "stable" release.  4.0.4(beta 3) worked better for me, but it is 
 > still beta.  >  > Jim  >  > : > "Marty Kuhrt" <kuhrt@encompasserve.org> wrote in message/ > news:iMMT0Z8yn6of@eisner.encompasserve.org... I > > Anyone have an idea when Apache 2.0 (CSWS) and Tomcat 4.0 (CSWS_JAVA)  > > will be available for VMS? >  >  >    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2002 13:21:18 +0200 E From: Jan C. =?iso-8859-1?Q?Vorbr=FCggen?= <jvorbrueggen@mediasec.de> B Subject: Re: Common File Qualifiers (was: Could linux become VMS?)+ Message-ID: <3D0DC62E.6BBCF265@mediasec.de>   J > Fine, have it your way.  The new version of Mail was shipped in a timely= > fashion, _well_ before it was suitable for customer use :-)   G Ah, I agree with that assessment. That's what you get for not using the E facilities you are developing internally to any significant degree...    	Jan   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2002 13:23:44 +0200 E From: Jan C. =?iso-8859-1?Q?Vorbr=FCggen?= <jvorbrueggen@mediasec.de> $ Subject: Re: Could linux become VMS?+ Message-ID: <3D0DC6C0.20140D1E@mediasec.de>   ? > Pipe - a good unix concept brought to VMS - a godsend really.   D Agreed. People have been asking for decades, and in fact third-partyC implementations existed before it becoming an official part of VMS. : So the NIH syndrome is also available in MA, it appears...  E > But whether they apply to all commands is a lottery - normally only ! > satisfied by checking the help.   , No, you just try it, and DCL will tell you.   H Again, the important point is you can't write "-r" and something totally unexpected happens.	   	Jan   ------------------------------    Date: 17 Jun 2002 07:30:38 -0600- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) $ Subject: Re: Could linux become VMS?3 Message-ID: <j2F5G4glviFs@eisner.encompasserve.org>   c In article <3D09E351.27AF32F4@mindspring.com>, Atlant Schmidt <atlantnospam@mindspring.com> writes:  >  > < >> 4.How do you accomplish a fixed width display format when) >>   showing the contents of a directory?  > 2 > Once again, I don't see your point, nor do I see4 > where VMS is any improvment. Unix at least has the8 > courtesy to put the varying-width stuff (the filename)4 > at the right side of the display; VMS embeds it at4 > the left where you have to work hard to get at it.5 > (You don't really think it's a fixed-width filename  > field, do you???)   8    Left justified strings are common in most programming<    languages.  I can't think of one in which right justified#    strings are easier to deal with.   1 > By the way, in VMS, can you get a list of files 1 > listed one-filename-per-line, as you might want # > for raw material for a .COM file?       help directory /columns  /    Also, very usefull when makeing a .com file:   "       directory/noheader/notrailer  H    Now, as long as your pinching nits, can you get UNIX to tell me who's    got the file open?    ------------------------------    Date: 17 Jun 2002 07:32:53 -0600- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) $ Subject: Re: Could linux become VMS?3 Message-ID: <fHnu+8B$ELQa@eisner.encompasserve.org>   c In article <3D09E74B.D591F703@mindspring.com>, Atlant Schmidt <atlantnospam@mindspring.com> writes:  > . > -r falls into a different category. *NOBODY*1 > would ever make the claim that the Unix command  > language is orthogonal! :-)   D    No, they fairly consistenly claim that file naming is orthogonal.E    I've yet to hear any definition of orthogonal for file names which /    which doesn't just boil down to "like UNIX".   7    Now can you prove that orthogonality is a good idea?    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2002 08:53:55 -0400 2 From: Atlant Schmidt <atlantnospam@mindspring.com>$ Subject: Re: Could linux become VMS?. Message-ID: <3D0DDBE3.3E69F050@mindspring.com>   Paul Sture wrote:   Q > I'm currently trying to come to grips with a Mac iBook. OS X may be a wonderful M > thing, but a unix based system without a pipe character on the keyboad (nor K > square nor curly brackets for that matter) does present certain problems.   - Is that a "national" keyboard (e.g., French?) ' that doesn't have the "pipe" character?   ( In any case, you shoulkdn't need ResEdit+ (and I don't think it would do you any good ( anyway in MacOS/X). What you need is the* correct settings sub-panel (and I'm sorry,- I forget its name) that allows you to turn on * the feature that lets you pick your "input) script" (language) from the command line.   + When you've done the deed, a small national . flag will appear in the right-hand part of the- menu bar. That's a pull-down menu and it will - quickly let you select keyboard mappings. The + "US" mapping should certainly have the pipe # character in the usual US position.    Atlant   ------------------------------    Date: 17 Jun 2002 07:35:30 -0600- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)M$ Subject: Re: Could linux become VMS?3 Message-ID: <e8+B04xFRvdX@eisner.encompasserve.org>e  R In article <3D0A0A92.D40E6541@spam.not>, Brass Christof <welcome@spam.not> writes:  6 > Your answer is already okay. I used tee a few times 8 > but wasn't very happy with it. I also remember system * > that haven't tee. Is this standard UNIX?  =    Now we all know, there's no such thing as "standard UNIX".    ------------------------------    Date: 17 Jun 2002 07:39:58 -0600- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)M$ Subject: Re: Could linux become VMS?3 Message-ID: <e1UgQb19KT$V@eisner.encompasserve.org>S  c In article <3D0A216D.66C47ECC@mindspring.com>, Atlant Schmidt <atlantnospam@mindspring.com> writes:   5 > Have you got a push-directory/pop-directory featurel3 > in DCL yet? If not, I could probably find my .COMe' > file that used to do that for me. :-)u  F    Yes, of course.  All via .com files.  Same as the one I have in kshH    written in ksh functions and much better than the one built into csh.      So what?O   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2002 09:14:11 -0400n2 From: Atlant Schmidt <atlantnospam@mindspring.com>$ Subject: Re: Could linux become VMS?- Message-ID: <3D0DE0A3.5E19CFD@mindspring.com>-   Bob Koehler wrote:  e > In article <3D0A216D.66C47ECC@mindspring.com>, Atlant Schmidt <atlantnospam@mindspring.com> writes:' >m7 > > Have you got a push-directory/pop-directory featureu5 > > in DCL yet? If not, I could probably find my .COMd) > > file that used to do that for me. :-)s >oH >    Yes, of course.  All via .com files.  Same as the one I have in kshJ >    written in ksh functions and much better than the one built into csh. >o
 >    So what?   $ So DCL *STILL* hasn't got this basic functionality built in.o  ! Yes,  I can really see where it'sT" far superior to Unix shells. (NOT)   Atlant   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2002 09:15:51 -0400S2 From: Atlant Schmidt <atlantnospam@mindspring.com>$ Subject: Re: Could linux become VMS?. Message-ID: <3D0DE107.F47A8BDE@mindspring.com>   Bob Koehler wrote:  4 > > Once again, I don't see your point, nor do I see6 > > where VMS is any improvment. Unix at least has the: > > courtesy to put the varying-width stuff (the filename)6 > > at the right side of the display; VMS embeds it at6 > > the left where you have to work hard to get at it.7 > > (You don't really think it's a fixed-width filenamel > > field, do you???)d >t: >    Left justified strings are common in most programming> >    languages.  I can't think of one in which right justified% >    strings are easier to deal with.v  ) The filename field from ls *ISN'T* right-S) justified; where did you get *THAT* idea? + It's just placed as the rightmost column soo/ that it's trivially easy to accommodate varyingm filename lengths.D   Atlant         > 3 > > By the way, in VMS, can you get a list of filesn3 > > listed one-filename-per-line, as you might wants% > > for raw material for a .COM file?  >e >    help directory /columns >D1 >    Also, very usefull when makeing a .com file:Y >O$ >       directory/noheader/notrailer >-J >    Now, as long as your pinching nits, can you get UNIX to tell me who's >    got the file open?8   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2002 09:45:48 -0400i2 From: Atlant Schmidt <atlantnospam@mindspring.com>$ Subject: Re: Could linux become VMS?. Message-ID: <3D0DE80C.F184B0BE@mindspring.com>   Dave Weatherall wrote:  E > And of course if you're executing a DCL procedure there's always :-A >T/ >         $ @my_command /output=sys$login:mylogi >rC > Errors still come out on your screen, I think, 'cos sys$error and E > sys$output are different but that's the case with Unix too isn't itl > (stderr and stdout)?   Yes, stderr and stdout.h      E > I agree there's more to type than on Unix or Dos but that's the VMS 5 > way. It does help to improve your typimg skills :-)i   :-)s   Atlant   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2002 09:48:55 -0400n2 From: Atlant Schmidt <atlantnospam@mindspring.com>$ Subject: Re: Could linux become VMS?. Message-ID: <3D0DE8C7.8FE8CD59@mindspring.com>   Dave Weatherall wrote:  > > Yeah it is very powerful . I know a system manager who, by a* > mis-typing accident,  did something like >  >         ls * >protocol >i! > in the /etc directory. Ooops!!.d >u > -- > Cheers - Dave. >lC > PS he was trying t o find out what TCP/IP ports were allocated to(E > which protocols for me. At the time I didn't know they were held inr! > the file 'protocol'. I do now !o  6 In the cshell and tcshell, *NOCLOBBER* is your friend.; Always set it. Yes, you'll curse at the confirmation promptn7 when doing something like "ls > temp.tmp", but someday,=$ it'll pay all that frustration back.   Atlant   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2002 09:52:46 -0400r2 From: Atlant Schmidt <atlantnospam@mindspring.com>$ Subject: Re: Could linux become VMS?. Message-ID: <3D0DE9AE.53244627@mindspring.com>   Brass Christof wrote:r   > > > [3.] How do you mimic- > > >- > > > $ DIRECTORY ALPHA* > >  > > Simple:  > >  > >   ls ALPHA*h > ><A > > The shell globs the filespec, expanding this to, for example,i > >r= > >   ls ALPHA_IS_BORN  ALPHA_GOES_FASTER  ALPHA_BECOMES_DEADp > >t: > > and ls then outputs the directory information for each > > of those files.  >l > Not only ;-): > The contents off all subdirectories fitting this spec is/ > also displayed which could be rather anoying.d  , Well, much like DCL, all you need is another qualifier! :-)  / Use "ls -d" to prevent ls from diving down intos5 subdirectories. Instead, it'll list information abouti$ the [sub]directories, just like VMS.   Atlant   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2002 09:58:40 -0400u2 From: Atlant Schmidt <atlantnospam@mindspring.com>$ Subject: Re: Could linux become VMS?. Message-ID: <3D0DEB10.6B08B5C0@mindspring.com>   Frank Sapienza wrote:-  L > As for your post above, in response to Sharon, how does this "screw up the > local (on terminal) display"?j >:6 > Sharon's one gaff was to exclude the /USER qualifer: >$# > $ DEFINE /USER SYS$OUTPUT LTA100:j > $ somecommandherer >wN > This sends the output to the printer and the terminal display is fine: thereN > will be none, which is the whole point in sending the output somewhere else.  ' Since you said the magic words "and the . terminal display is fine: there will be none",/ I take it you understand how this screws up thed0 terminal output as compared to "tee". Of course,* if you want purely /PRINT or /OUTPUT, then this solution works fine.   5 Well, if you remember to include the /USER qualifier,J as Sharon didn't.T   Oops.i   Atlant   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2002 15:09:41 GMTo% From: "-Andy-" <acs@fcgnet.works.net>n$ Subject: Re: Could linux become VMS?> Message-ID: <Xns9230714A12FB1acsfcgnetworksnet@216.166.71.232>  5 carl@gerg.tamu.edu (Carl Perkins) enlightened us with & news:15JUN200201473886@gerg.tamu.edu:   A > Have you ever considered looking at HELP DIRECTORY to find out?   = Hmmm.... yes, I did in fact.... and I've already commented onn that.   2 [And it's already been commented on by others....]  B Including the fact that I missed /TRAILING in HELP when I did look@ there (And saw /TOTAL instead...) . Such things happen..... even; after 10+ years of using VMS. Fortunately, it's not a fatala mistake ....    %-)....   -Andy- -- s   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2002 17:41:10 +0200 E From: Jan C. =?iso-8859-1?Q?Vorbr=FCggen?= <jvorbrueggen@mediasec.de> $ Subject: Re: Could linux become VMS?+ Message-ID: <3D0E0316.46366669@mediasec.de>1  9 > > > Have you got a push-directory/pop-directory feature 7 > > > in DCL yet? If not, I could probably find my .COM$+ > > > file that used to do that for me. :-)O& > So DCL *STILL* hasn't got this basic > functionality built in.@ > # > Yes,  I can really see where it'so$ > far superior to Unix shells. (NOT)  K Surprise, surprise...after more than a decade using Unix daily (minutely?),oM I have used that feature maybe once or twice. Never really missed it, either.e   	Jan   ------------------------------   Date: 17 Jun 02 18:57:47 +0200) From: p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture)b$ Subject: Re: Could linux become VMS?) Message-ID: <xkhdHh9EgVv1@elias.decus.ch>s  c In article <3D0DDBE3.3E69F050@mindspring.com>, Atlant Schmidt <atlantnospam@mindspring.com> writes:u > Paul Sture wrote:  > R >> I'm currently trying to come to grips with a Mac iBook. OS X may be a wonderfulN >> thing, but a unix based system without a pipe character on the keyboad (norL >> square nor curly brackets for that matter) does present certain problems. > / > Is that a "national" keyboard (e.g., French?)c) > that doesn't have the "pipe" character?h >   
 Swiss German.e  * > In any case, you shoulkdn't need ResEdit- > (and I don't think it would do you any good-* > anyway in MacOS/X). What you need is the, > correct settings sub-panel (and I'm sorry,/ > I forget its name) that allows you to turn onw, > the feature that lets you pick your "input+ > script" (language) from the command line.  > - > When you've done the deed, a small nationalk0 > flag will appear in the right-hand part of the/ > menu bar. That's a pull-down menu and it wille/ > quickly let you select keyboard mappings. The - > "US" mapping should certainly have the pipe % > character in the usual US position.  >   : I have come across that stuff, but so far I've only got it> switching between German German and Swiss German. Not a lot of> use when I don't know what a German German keyboard looks like :-)m  > I don't like the idea of remapping the whole keyboard just for9 the odd missing character or two. I _can_ touch type a USf7 keyboard (LK or PC) if I  don't look at it, but find ita@ sufficiently uncomfortable to restrict its use to get me as far 1 as setting language options on installations etc.T  > What I would prefer is to be able to define a key sequence for= those few characters. Oh, I since discovered the # is missingr too :-)   ) Time to see how good their support is :-)e   __
 Paul Sture Switzerlands   ------------------------------    Date: 17 Jun 2002 10:15:31 -0700& From: jordan@ccs4vms.com (Rich Jordan)I Subject: Re: Fastest CD-R or CD-RW capabilities for burning under OpenVMS = Message-ID: <cc5619f2.0206170915.479a806b@posting.google.com>h  U system@SendSpamHere.ORG wrote in message news:<00A0F731.9C42B042@SendSpamHere.ORG>...c > G > I replaced my firmware brain-dead Yamaha 4416 with a YAMAHA CRW2200S. E > This unit allows me to mount CDs on VMS unlike the old Yamaha 4416.yF > It boasts some pretty good figures for burn speed and I've used themG > with CDRECORD at these higher speeds without ever creating a coaster.A   Brian,F      is that in fact an IDE drive with a SCSI converter?  Saw one sans2 box at a local store and it kind of looks like it.   Rich   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2002 09:57:00 +0200 % From: "Jakob Erber" <erberj@yahoo.de> & Subject: install image /write/resident% Message-ID: <3d0d964c$1@news.post.ch>    Hello,  C according to compaq engineering, one of our sharable images must be H installed with the qualifiers above, in order to be able to link symbolsJ dynamicly via dlsym. I would be glad if somebody could give me hints about1 possible negativ side effects of this qualifiers.    best regards   Jakob    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2002 08:36:12 -040082 From: Atlant Schmidt <atlantnospam@mindspring.com>H Subject: Re: Interesting ZDnet post about Tandem -- Can VMS do the same?. Message-ID: <3D0DD7BC.488C8B0E@mindspring.com>  2 I guess I didn't state my question clearly enough,2 because I'd hate to think that the answer is "No!" So let me try again:  / ZDnet just publshed a *VERY LONG* article abouti1 Tandem. This is probably perceived as goodness byd0 the Tandem partisans as it gets their name right, out there in front of *A BROAD CROSS-SECTION OF I.T. READERSHIP*.  1 Can anyone from VMS get ZDnet to do the same withh6 regard to VMS? It just might help you in your struggle4 to survive. Carly and Curly would have a much harder3 time ignorringyou if actual new customers in droves- were asking to buy VMS.u   Atlant   ------------------------------    Date: 17 Jun 2002 08:04:15 -0600- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) H Subject: Re: Interesting ZDnet post about Tandem -- Can VMS do the same?3 Message-ID: <CeIsbIONB+t8@eisner.encompasserve.org>d  a In article <KcnDYBdEmq7F@eisner.encompasserve.org>, young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) writes:o, > http://zdnet.com.com/2100-1103-935814.html > O > "We've been lusting after their compilers for years," Nist said. "On Sept. 5,nP > the day after the merger was announced, my compiler people wanted to go across0 > the street" to talk to the HP compiler teams.  > ? > 	What was wrong with Digital/Compaq compiler teams?  From alltC > 	indications they make excellent compilers.  "lusting after theirn@ > 	compilers for years"  doesn't make a whole lot of sense (from > 	an external viewpoint). >   G    Ouch.  Did I read that right?  Our experience with DEC compilers haseH    been excellent.  HP compilers have always been a the other end of the    spectrum.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2002 12:26:52 -0400>% From: "John Vottero" <John@mvpsi.com> H Subject: Re: Interesting ZDnet post about Tandem -- Can VMS do the same?/ Message-ID: <ugs3edic7heq68@news.supernews.com>t  8 "Rob Young" <young_r@encompasserve.org> wrote in message- news:xid3lQvF6YlD@eisner.encompasserve.org...e@ > In article <ugkb3mbjq5i753@news.supernews.com>, "John Vottero" <John@mvpsi.com> writes:< > > "Rob Young" <young_r@encompasserve.org> wrote in message1 > > news:KcnDYBdEmq7F@eisner.encompasserve.org...tB > >> In article <3D09F6FA.5AE88126@mindspring.com>, Atlant Schmidt) > > <atlantnospam@mindspring.com> writes:eB > >> > ZDnet has a very, very long posting about Tandem "returningF > >> > to its HP roots". I haven't read the whole article yet, but oneG > >> > quote that jumped out at me was of the Tandem founder discussingeB > >> > how Tandem would be a better fit inside HP than it ever was > >> > inside Compaq.  > >> >9 > >> > Gee, that sounds just like Deja Vu all over again!7 > >> ># > >> > Here's the complete article:p > >> >3 > >> >   http://zdnet.com.com/2100-1103-935814.htmlM > >> > > >> > Your thoughts?i > >> > > >> > > >> > >> One very odd comment: > >>/ > >> http://zdnet.com.com/2100-1103-935814.htmli > >>I > >> "We've been lusting after their compilers for years," Nist said. "Onl Sept.m > > 5,L > >> the day after the merger was announced, my compiler people wanted to go
 > > across2 > >> the street" to talk to the HP compiler teams. > >>A > >> What was wrong with Digital/Compaq compiler teams?  From alldE > >> indications they make excellent compilers.  "lusting after theirhB > >> compilers for years"  doesn't make a whole lot of sense (from > >> an external viewpoint). > >> > > I > > Didn't Compaq send it's compiler teams to Intel when it killed Alpha?m > >? >e, > That is why I was careful to requote this: >a+ > "lusting after their compilers for years"  >e: > What you are referring to happened not quite a year ago. >b  H But, none of this makes much sense.  The Tandem people have been lustingK after HP compilers?  Why would they when the Digital compilers were part oftJ their own company?   If HP's compiler technology is so good, why did IntelJ want the Digital compiler teams?  HP has been an Itanium partner since theJ beginning right?  Did Intel decide that the HP compilers were crap so they* wanted the Digital people to get it right?   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2002 15:33:23 GMT 2 From: "Sue Skonetski" <susan.skonetski@compaq.com>E Subject: Introducing the Remote Diagnostic Agent (RDA) for Oracle Rdb 1 Message-ID: <7jnP8.13$fJ.281644@news.cpqcorp.net>n  : From: RdbInfo_us@oracle.com [mailto:RdbInfo_us@oracle.com]  $ Sent: Monday, June 17, 2002 11:02 AM   To: Skonetski, Susan  E Subject: Introducing the Remote Diagnostic Agent (RDA) for Oracle Rdba  
 Rdb Customer:7  K During a recent study we found that on average it takes 7 days for a TAR todJ get resolved. Out of this total time, 4.25 days were spent collecting dataD to aid in troubleshooting.In order to streamline the data collectionL process; a new utility, Remote Diagnostic Agent for RDB on OpenVMS, has beenL developed by several Rdb Support Analysts. Facilitating data collection willH assist Oracle Support Services in our on-going efforts to reduce time to resolution.-  I So what is RDA? The Remote Diagnostic Agent (RDA) for Oracle Rdb is a DCLeH (Digital Command Language) command procedure designed to gather detailedG information from an Oracle Rdb VMS environment. The command procedure's1I focus is to collect accurate information that will aid problem diagnosis.rL The output is also very useful for viewing the overall system configuration.C This tool will enable you, our customers, to easily gather detailed F information from your Rdb environment that will help analysts diagnoseJ problems faster and reduce the overall TAR resolution time. How many timesJ has an analyst requested initial information and then come back to requestD more information? The intent is for RDA to minimize this scenario by2 obtaining a more comprehensive set of information.  K How do I get started? We are asking our customers to run RDA and upload thecE resulting file to Oracle Support when reporting the following issues:d  +  Service requests involving error messagess  
  OS Setup    Upgrade or install issuesL  &  Connect problems with SQLNET for Rdb    Configuration issues  
  Performance-  -  Tuning issues in relation to Database or OS     Memory utilization   When in doubt, send the RDAc    I The Remote Diagnostic Agent for Rdb on OpenVMS documentation and tool setLD are available via Metalink. Doc ID: 187506.1  This document defines:    System Requirements     First time Set Upe    How to review the output  &  Uploading the file to Oracle Support  J Will RDA solve my TAR for me? No. RDA is a tool to assist in resolving theJ issue. As stated above RDA's purpose is to collect accurate information upC front. In many cases RDA will collect information that you think isiG unnecessary, but may be of value if additional resources are engaged to  assist with (e.g. engineering).i   Your feedback is important!t  2 Please submit feedback to: stlibmgr_us@oracle.com.  I We would like to hear from you if you are experiencing difficulties usingnH RDA, would like to request enhancements, or just wish to share comments.   Best regards   John F. Horvatho   Senior Manager    Oracle Corporation - Rdb Support        @ We sent you this mail because of your business relationship with  A Oracle and its Rdb family of software products. If you would liked  ; to be removed from this mailing list, please let us know atr  D http://www.oracle.com/rdb/contacts/index.html?rdb_mailing_list.html.  ; You can also change our record of your email address or add   0 addresses for your colleagues at this same site.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2002 18:04:40 +0200DE From: Jan C. =?iso-8859-1?Q?Vorbr=FCggen?= <jvorbrueggen@mediasec.de>t& Subject: Re: Linus' comments about VMS+ Message-ID: <3D0E0898.E618AC8B@mediasec.de>   I > No way that you'd want an untrained programmer work on something simple # > like the VMS lock manager, right?0  I The semantics of the lock manager are a copy, down to the compatible locknK diagram, of a paper from a conference I once stumbled across. I believe therK distributed deadlock detection algorithm was taken from another article (byaJ Lamport? IIRC, the source referenced it). All you then need is a compotentM programmer to implement it. Oh, an a connection manager that's worth its saltf' - another paper by Lamport implemented.i   	Jan   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2002 16:20:48 GMTr0 From: prune@ZAnkh-Morpork.mv.com (Paul Winalski)& Subject: Re: Linus' comments about VMS8 Message-ID: <3d0e0af7.748920280@proxy.news.easynews.com>  @ On Sun, 16 Jun 2002 13:18:36 +0200, "Hans Vlems" <hvlems@iae.nl> wrote:  C >The point is that in the early 70's o/s design was not a science. ?  E And you think it WAS a science at the time VMS was designed (the mid-: 1970s)?h  E Unix at least went through a major rewrite in the late 1980s.  Modernc? Unixes (Linux, Tru64) are microkernel-based.  Under the covers,nE there's very little left of the original AT&T code.  In contrast, VMS @ inside still is to a great extent warmed-over RSX-11M in design.   >For anl >open community that isiE >an advantage. No way that you'd want an untrained programmer work ont >something simplel" >like the VMS lock manager, right?  D Several "untrained programmers" (read: recent college grads) **did** work on the VMS Lock Manager.t  F I think you're drastically underestimating the level of quality of the6 work being done in Linux by the open source community.  A That being said, open source development does have its downsides.:F In any large project, such as an OS, there are fun, exciting things toF work on and there are pieces of drudgery work, which are difficult andC unglamorous, but nonetheless vital.  People tend not to work on the<B latter aspects unless they're paid to do so.  Open source projectsF tend to pay a lot of attention to things that are either easy, fun, orD glamorous, and to give short shrift to things that are difficult and not glamorous.  
 ---------- Remove 'Z' to reply by email.s   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2002 16:23:20 GMTr* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>& Subject: Re: Linus' comments about VMSC Message-ID: <X1oP8.291648$Oa1.24173288@bin8.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>i  : "Larry Kilgallen" <Kilgallen@SpamCop.net> wrote in message- news:XYZOKrHyF+Er@eisner.encompasserve.org...-4 > In article <3D0E0898.E618AC8B@mediasec.de>, Jan C.@ =?iso-8859-1?Q?Vorbr=FCggen?= <jvorbrueggen@mediasec.de> writes:L > >> No way that you'd want an untrained programmer work on something simple& > >> like the VMS lock manager, right? > >oH > > The semantics of the lock manager are a copy, down to the compatible lockK > > diagram, of a paper from a conference I once stumbled across. I believeR theOK > > distributed deadlock detection algorithm was taken from another articlet (bydD > > Lamport? IIRC, the source referenced it). All you then need is a	 compotent L > > programmer to implement it. Oh, an a connection manager that's worth its salt+ > > - another paper by Lamport implemented.  >e- > And Lamport, of course, was a DEC employee.m  9 Not until 2 - 3 years after VAXclusters were implemented.e   - bill   ------------------------------    Date: 17 Jun 2002 11:15:58 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)n& Subject: Re: Linus' comments about VMS3 Message-ID: <XYZOKrHyF+Er@eisner.encompasserve.org>   s In article <3D0E0898.E618AC8B@mediasec.de>, Jan C. =?iso-8859-1?Q?Vorbr=FCggen?= <jvorbrueggen@mediasec.de> writes:nJ >> No way that you'd want an untrained programmer work on something simple$ >> like the VMS lock manager, right? > K > The semantics of the lock manager are a copy, down to the compatible lock M > diagram, of a paper from a conference I once stumbled across. I believe thedM > distributed deadlock detection algorithm was taken from another article (bysL > Lamport? IIRC, the source referenced it). All you then need is a compotentO > programmer to implement it. Oh, an a connection manager that's worth its salta) > - another paper by Lamport implemented.-  + And Lamport, of course, was a DEC employee.o  @ But don't underestimate the difficulty of actual implementation.> The project leader of the initial VMS Distributed Lock ManagerC said when the project was done that he never wanted to work outsidey of user mode again.r   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2002 17:41:31 +0530y= From: Kesav Tadimeti <Kesav.Tadimeti@signaltreesolutions.com>* Subject: more tpu doubtsK Message-ID: <3BB00261FED5D41183FD00104B93C260020BFA43@exdel01.del.mgsl.com>a  J This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand< this format, some or all of this message may not be legible.  ( --------------InterScan_NT_MIME_Boundary$ Content-Type: multipart/alternative;1 	boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C215F8.1DAD13F0"m  ' ------_=_NextPart_001_01C215F8.1DAD13F0j Content-Type: text/plain;  	charset="iso-8859-1"H  
 Hello all,L Sorry for the MIME. I am using outlook to send mails, but do not know how to disable it.   H Thanks to all for giving me suggestions. set term/noeightbit worked. ButL from my emulation s/w I was emulating vt400-7. changing it to vt400-8 solved
 the problem. i  I Q: WHen in TPU can I save to the same file I am working on? COMMAND: savet, hello.tx creates a new version of hello.txt.J    This is similar to SAVE AS in the windows world. What if I want to save" to the same file I am working on.   5 Q: Is there a similar feature in EDT - online saving?d   Thanks With regards Kesava  ' ------_=_NextPart_001_01C215F8.1DAD13F0e Content-Type: text/html; 	charset="iso-8859-1"o+ Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable   1 <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">t <HTML> <HEAD>9 <META HTTP-EQUIV=3D"Content-Type" CONTENT=3D"text/html; =d charset=3Diso-8859-1">@ <META NAME=3D"Generator" CONTENT=3D"MS Exchange Server version =
 5.5.2653.12">m <TITLE>more tpu doubts</TITLE> </HEAD>t <BODY>  # <P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Hello all,</FONT> C <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Sorry for the MIME. I am using outlook to send = 1 mails, but do not know how to disable it. </FONT>l </P>  @ <P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Thanks to all for giving me suggestions. set =C term/noeightbit worked. But from my emulation s/w I was emulating = ? vt400-7. changing it to vt400-8 solved the problem. </FONT></P>   C <P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Q: WHen in TPU can I save to the same file I am =K= working on? COMMAND: save hello.tx creates a new version of =m hello.txt.</FONT>tC <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp; This is similar to SAVE AS in the =oI windows world. What if I want to save to the same file I am working on. =  </FONT>  </P>  A <P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Q: Is there a similar feature in EDT - online =e saving?</FONT> </P>   <P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Thanks</FONT>e& <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>With regards</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Kesav</FONT>7 </P>   </BODY>c </HTML>m) ------_=_NextPart_001_01C215F8.1DAD13F0--r  * --------------InterScan_NT_MIME_Boundary--   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2002 08:22:15 -0400S- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>. Subject: Re: more tpu doubts, Message-ID: <3D0DD475.D54CA961@videotron.ca>   > Kesav Tadimeti wrote:0K > Q: WHen in TPU can I save to the same file I am working on? COMMAND: save . > hello.tx creates a new version of hello.txt.  N That is the way the VMS file system works. If you really must save to the same) version, then you can specify the versiona  L Command: write temp.txt;43  will write over temp.txt;43 or create it if that version doesn't exist.   ------------------------------  + Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2002 16:59:35 +0100 (MET)09 From: Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>l Subject: Re: more tpu doubts; Message-ID: <01KJ1M2VO0WY984WQP@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>m  K > Q: WHen in TPU can I save to the same file I am working on? COMMAND: savei. > hello.tx creates a new version of hello.txt. > I > This is similar to SAVE AS in the windows world. What if I want to saves$ > to the same file I am working on.  > 7 > Q: Is there a similar feature in EDT - online saving?-   Not directly, but:  0 $! @ <this file> instead of calling EDT directly7 $! E is a symbol to define EDIT/EDT with qualifiers etct $!! $  DEFINE/USER_MODE EDT_FILE 'P1'm6 $  JOURNAL = F$EXTRACT(0,F$LOCATE(".",P1),P1) + ".JOU"! $  IF F$SEARCH(JOURNAL) .EQS. "" e $  THENg) $  DEFINE/USER_MODE SYS$INPUT SYS$COMMANDe $    E 'P1'o $  ELSEr) $  DEFINE/USER_MODE SYS$INPUT SYS$COMMANDG $    E/RECOVER 'P1'd $  ENDIF $  EXITy  & Then in my SYS$LOGIN:EDTINI.EDT I have  + DEFINE KEY GOLD W AS "EXT WRITE EDT_FILE ."n   Works like a charm.S   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2002 08:18:55 -0400a2 From: Atlant Schmidt <atlantnospam@mindspring.com>5 Subject: Re: My conversation with Linus about VMS ...m. Message-ID: <3D0DD3AE.1B237117@mindspring.com>   Carl Perkins wrote:a  5 > "DIRECTORY /NOHEADER /NOTRAILER" -> "DIR/NOHE/NOTR"- >-5 > So a reduction of 56 and 2/3 percent is "somewhat"?o  3 Well, considering that 14 characters is still a bitZ0 bigger than "ls -1"'s 5 characters (280% bigger,5 in fact), yeah. I'd say that only rates a "somewhat".n    > > By the way, how exactly is anyone supposed to determine that; > when they want to see if something is in a file what they3? > really want to do is "get a regular expression and print" it, & > which is then abbreviated to "grep"?  5 Probably in the same way that one learns that the actn7 of putting food in one's mouth is known by the verb "tor7 eat" (in some languages, anyway). At the deepest level,l: all of these words are pretty arbitrary. The amazing thing0 about the human mind is that *MOST* are actually6 capably of learning, even if it's just these arbitrary- associations. So while one person learns thatt9 the act of looking for a particular byte string in a file 3 is called "SEARCHing", another leanrs that it's the . use of "Generalized Regular Expression Parsing (and execution).  1 And things naturally get cryptic when abbreviatedr) for brevity. Your very own of example of:i     $ DIR/NOHE/NOTRa  0 isn't exactly a model of English clarity, is it?  / As I've said elsewhere, Unix shells and DCL aree7 both foreign languages (to varying sets of foreigners).n  . By the way, I can't recall any more; does that) abbreviation of "DIRECTORY" to "DIR" workJ) *WITHOUT* the user (or admin, or someone)u. taking the active step to define a symbol? Can. all DCL verbs be so abbreviated? (My LOGIN.COM5 was filled with abbreviation definitions from forevert ago.)t   Atlant   ------------------------------    Date: 17 Jun 2002 07:51:51 -0600- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) 5 Subject: Re: My conversation with Linus about VMS ...e3 Message-ID: <GkHwiLR5NCaU@eisner.encompasserve.org>m  U In article <lfMNxYR2yd2J@elias.decus.ch>, p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture) writes:  > N > Every decent OS I have worked on in the business worldhas had indexed files,+ > without resorting to 3rd party databases.t  H    How do you think Oracle got rich?  Somebody sold eunichs to the world-    and Oracle was smart enough to jump on it.    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2002 14:31:57 +01004U From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <andrew_nospam.harrison_remove_this@sun#.com>l5 Subject: Re: My conversation with Linus about VMS ...o0 Message-ID: <aekoso$imh$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   Main, Kerry wrote:  	 > Andrew,P >  > E >>>>It isn't the fastest except in Bobs fevered imagination and thats  >>>>J > the Tru64 JVM, Compaq have never run SPECjbb on OpenVMS which is a major > release behind Tru64.<<< > B > OpenVMS JVM performance is now approx +/- 5% of Tru64. Also, TheJ > production version of Java available today is the same version as Tru64.F > OpenVMS JVM is V1.3.1-3 with V1.4 cooking (most developers today are, > still on some flavour of V1.3). Reference:0 > http://www.compaq.com/java/download/index.html >     6 So if the OpenVMS JVM is on a par with Tru64 and might3 even be faster than why not publish some numbers toy support your conjecture ?l  + Oh I forgot we don't want to do that do we.I    A > Is it the fastest JVM on the market? Don't know. Perhaps not...c > J > However, as Sun has shown with Solaris - you certainly do not need to be, > the fastest on the block to win Customers. >     5 Really there you go again, trying to claim that Sun's-6 and Solaris are slow. Get with the program Kerry thats. the prize you hold for OpenVMS/Tru64 on Alpha.  5 When are you going to learn ? provide some collateralt5 that people accept as comparative performance numbers@3 or stop making ridiculous jokes that are in realityi on you.f  2 The joke if there is one is that the Alpha is fast4 Sun/SPARC is slow so why does Sun sell so many boxes1 thought process is one of the key reasons why Sund1 does sell so many boxes when compared with Alpha.   6 Why, complacency and lack of knowledge especially when5 so easy to disprove are a powerfull weapon to give toa you competitors.  5 Which would you prefer a smart savy sales critter whor= knows your weaknesses and how to exploit them or a complacentS7 clueless one who thinks that one of your strenghts is ac: weekness ? Most Sun sales people relish a competition with Alpha I wonder why.f   Keep it up :):):):)    Regards- Andrew HarrisonA   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2002 15:44:49 GMTm From: danco@pebble.org5 Subject: Re: My conversation with Linus about VMS ...a- Message-ID: <slrnags1ss.css.danco@pebble.org>d  D In article <3D0DD3AE.1B237117@mindspring.com>, Atlant Schmidt wrote:  0 > By the way, I can't recall any more; does that+ > abbreviation of "DIRECTORY" to "DIR" worko+ > *WITHOUT* the user (or admin, or someone)a0 > taking the active step to define a symbol? Can" > all DCL verbs be so abbreviated?  ? All DCL verbs can be abbreviated to the point where they becomeaB ambiguous, then DCL will complain.  This has always been the case.@ Under plain DCL the following are unambiguous: DIR, DIRE, DIREC,@ DIRECT, DIRECTO, DIRECTOR, and DIRECTORY.  However, D and DI are? ambiguous (DIAGNOSE, DIRECTORY, DISABLE, DISCONNECT, DISMOUNT).n  F It's not a good idea to abbreviate commands used in command proceduresA as what is unambiguous today may be ambiguous tomorrow.  REC used D to work for RECALL a few VMS versions back, then it became ambiguousE and RECA was needed.  At that point I just added REC :== RECALL to myg
 login.com.  @ You can always define your own symbols or even your own commands to customize this.   - Dane   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2002 15:39:03 GMTi# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> 7 Subject: Re: One of Terry's shoes seems to have droppedsJ Message-ID: <ronP8.372052$t8_.260323@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>  5 "Bob Ceculski" <bob@instantwhip.com> wrote in messaget7 news:d7791aa1.0206161853.5230a174@posting.google.com...A >p' > Slowaris, a database OS?  Since when?  >   + Since the **perception** exists that it is.o  1 Since Digital tried to move everyone off OpenVMS.e& Since Compaq failed to market OpenVMS. Since Compaq killed Alpha. Since HP won't market OpenVMS.  8 Since all the non-marketing chickens come home to roost.   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2002 16:03:34 GMTs0 From: prune@ZAnkh-Morpork.mv.com (Paul Winalski)7 Subject: Re: One of Terry's shoes seems to have droppedo8 Message-ID: <3d0e0840.748225561@proxy.news.easynews.com>  F On Sun, 16 Jun 2002 22:30:58 GMT, "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote:   >And while the good L >folks in the VMS group may be tempted to offer reassurances, they certainlyM >didn't offer any useful insights into Alpha's future prior to last June 25th_K >and hence aren't particularly credible in such matters (though very likely I >honest in their opinions, unlike those who are actually in a position to- >make such decisions).  = That's because uppermost management announced the decision tobE us at the same time it was announced to the rest of the world.  Thoseo= of us who worked on or around VMS didn't know Alpha was beingyD killed, except for a few managers working on details of the contract, with Intel, and they kept their mouths shut.  
 ---------- Remove 'Z' to reply by email.    ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2002 16:17:40 GMTe* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>7 Subject: Re: One of Terry's shoes seems to have droppedaC Message-ID: <EYnP8.291571$Oa1.24169978@bin8.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>m  = "Paul Winalski" <prune@ZAnkh-Morpork.mv.com> wrote in messageh2 news:3d0e0840.748225561@proxy.news.easynews.com...H > On Sun, 16 Jun 2002 22:30:58 GMT, "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> > wrote: >  > >And while the good-D > >folks in the VMS group may be tempted to offer reassurances, they	 certainlyDJ > >didn't offer any useful insights into Alpha's future prior to last June 25thF > >and hence aren't particularly credible in such matters (though very likelyK > >honest in their opinions, unlike those who are actually in a position toe > >make such decisions). > ? > That's because uppermost management announced the decision toeG > us at the same time it was announced to the rest of the world.  Those ? > of us who worked on or around VMS didn't know Alpha was being F > killed, except for a few managers working on details of the contract. > with Intel, and they kept their mouths shut.  I Exactly.  The point being that there's absolutely nothing that would keeptJ them from acting the same way in killing VMS should they get it into theirD so-called minds to do so, which is why I suggested that well-meaningJ reassurances from the VMS group would not really carry much actual weight.   - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2002 11:37:22 +0100 ( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1> Subject: Re: Open Letter to HP) Message-ID: <3D0DBBE2.10C3AF77@127.0.0.1>    Peter LANGSTOEGER wrote: >  > I > No. OpenVMS has unfortunately nothing in common with Q's F1 activities.o  N > And only the word "OpenVMS" is not enough as an ad. You also need to let theR > crowd know that: OpenVMS is an operating system, is from HPQ (previously COMPAQ,N > previously DEC) and is much better for enterprise computing (and all others,J > too) than all the toys from the competition. Then and only then a simple/ > reminder "OpenVMS" on the F1 cars can help...M  A Sadly, a few years ago (maybe 15) a friend and colleague saw someo@ footage from an F1 pit, and this guy was typing away on VAXPHONEH discussing aspects of the cars performance... You'd only recognize it if you saw it.s  F In this thread, DJC and PR both said we need non targeted advertising.D well OK I agree but convincing someone to do targeted advertising isD easier than getting them to just blast it out to the world how great OpenVMS actually is. Tactical.  E OpenVMS, the best kept secret is also pretty good at keeping secrets.a  e --  ( Regards, Nic Clews CSC Computer Sciences nclews at csc dot comm   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2002 17:26:58 +0100dU From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <andrew_nospam.harrison_remove_this@sun#.com>s Subject: Re: Open Letter to HP0 Message-ID: <ael34u$lt8$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   Bob Ceculski wrote:t   > Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <andrew_nospam.harrison_remove_this@sun#.com> wrote in message news:<ae75hb$7hp$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>...  > E >>>anyone could boost performance numbers if they put 80,000 in a box-C >>>like Sun does ... let's see your single cpu againset single cpu,p? >>>not 80,000 sparcs to 1 alpha ... then you would get creamed!V >>>e >>>-9 >>Bob I know you like being a troll but try to understand<7 >>this tiny weeny fact, there is no evidence to suggestb9 >>that what you claim is true and there is plenty to showh: >>that its false. On a per CPU basis as I have pointed out; >>to you before with results to illustrate big SPEC servers 3 >>deliver better throughput than big Alpha servers.e >>7 >>Last time I pointed this out to you you didn't managee: >>a response, come up with examples to support your claims2 >>because at the moment all I can smell is manure. >>	 >>Regardss >>Andrew Harrison) >> > C > I am not a troll, but a realist ... and you want I/O, you will benE > inundated in it when EV7 hits ... I think you know it and Sun knowsp > it, and you are both scared! >     C If Sun and I were scared rigid by every "Worldbeating" Alpha ServerlG that was trailed prior to announcment we would long ago have had to be M> admitted to an institution or at least been heavily medicated.  D However the last 2 major high end server announcements the GS140 andD the GS160/320 have not so much induced terror but instead hysterics.  B Lets wait and see how Marvel pans out, so far the Alpha choir have= a 100% failure rate when world domination and Alpha are beingm
 discussed.  < Incedentally where is your justification for your claims for= the current systems, I asked you for it a couple of weeks agol> so come on produce it or admit that you are only talking about> what EV7 may deliver and not about what Alphas do deliver now.   Regards  Andrew Harrison_   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2002 15:24:34 GMTH2 From: "Sue Skonetski" <susan.skonetski@compaq.com>Y Subject: Press Release from Process - Process Software announced today Secure Shell (SSH)s1 Message-ID: <SanP8.11$TC.133246@news.cpqcorp.net>l  * Just got this and wanted to pass it along.   sue0  J NEW PRODUCT OFFERS SECURE COMMUNICATION OVER THE INTERNET FOR HP ALPHA AND VAX OPEN VMS SYSTEMS  I Process Software's Secure Shell (SSH) client and server software preventsE/ network security breaches such as eavesdropping   J             FRAMINGHAM, Mass.  (June 17, 2002) - , which protects users ofH HP Alpha and VAX systems against potential network security breaches, is available to the market.B             SSH for OpenVMS enables remote systems administrators,C telecommuters, and other users to access corporate networks without"H revealing passwords and data to potential eavesdroppers. Telnet, e-mail,K database connections, file transfers and other third party applications are J protected. SSH for OpenVMS provides a high level of security using severalL authentication and strong encryption options including industry standard RSA	 and 3DES.aJ             "Many of our customers need to communicate highly confidentialG information over the Internet," said Habib Khoury, president and CEO oftC Process Software, a premier supplier of infrastructure solutions to H mission-critical environments, "SSH is the tool they need to ensure that8 they have absolute security with Internet transactions."J The SSH protocol is a defacto standard for network security, with millionsJ of users and thousands of organizations worldwide.  SSH protocol version 2G is in the process of becoming an Internet Engineering Task Force (IETF)oF standard.  Process Software SSH for OpenVMS client and server softwareF conforms to the protocol version 1 and 2 specifications allowing it toL inter-operate with other third-party SSH clients and servers platforms, such& as UNIX, Linux, Windows and Macintosh.H                         In addition, SSH for OpenVMS inter-operates withI Process Software's MultiNet and TCPware TCP/IP for OpenVMS SSH server and:H client solutions.  MultiNet and TCPware are similar products and provide= reliable and secure TCP/IP services for organizations running : mission-critical applications on HP VAX and Alpha Systems.E             "Process Software TCP/IP stacks for OpenVMS, MultiNet andvI TCPware, have supported SSH as a feature for several years," said Khoury.eH "Providing SSH support on all OpenVMS Alpha and VAX systems allows us to& offer our product to a larger market."K             Process Software was founded in 1984 and serves more than 5,000-J customers, including many Global 2000 and Fortune 1000 companies. Platinum$ Equity, one of the largest, fastest- -MORE-@ Page 2.New product offers secure communication over the InternetJ growing private buyout firms in the United States, acquired the company in 2000.o Process SoftwareJ Process Software (www.process.com) is a premier supplier of infrastructure software solutions todH mission-critical environments. The company delivers customer-centric and innovative IP-basediD technologies to customers worldwide, and provides them with superiorL customer support and service. Process Software's leading TCP/IP products forI OpenVMS include SSH for OpenVMS, TCPware and MultiNet, and PMDF messaging=K products for OpenVMS, Tru64 UNIX, Solaris, and Windows NT. Process Softwaree is owned by Platinum Equity.   Platinum EquityMG Platinum Equity (www.peh.com) is one of the largest and fastest-growing J private buyout firms in the United States, specializing in the acquisitionI and operation of global, mission-critical technology companies. Since themL company's founding in 1995, Platinum has completed nearly 40 transactions ofH global, mission-critical companies with leading Fortune 500 corporationsH including Williams Communications, Motorola, Staples, Fujitsu, WorldCom,G AT&T and IBM. Today, Platinum Equity has a multi-billion dollar revenue L base, an established infrastructure in North America, Europe, Asia and SouthG America and a workforce of more than 15,000 employees serving more than1K 500,000 customers throughout the world. Platinum Equity was recently rankedmL by Forbes magazine as the 75th largest private company in the United States.   # # #e   Contact:  5 Process Software                      Platinum Equityd4 Lauren Maschio                         Jodie Daubert? Senior Marketing Manager            Public Relations Consultant 6 (508) 626-7525                          (717) 703-6720; maschio@process.com                        jdaubert@peh.com    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2002 14:07:08 +0100gU From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <andrew_nospam.harrison_remove_this@sun#.com>iA Subject: Re: Request for path balancing (Was: Re: Carly was here)t0 Message-ID: <aekne7$i7l$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   Rob Young wrote:   > In article <aed5ea$72h$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <andrew_nospam.harrison_remove_this@sun#.com> writes: >  >> >>Rob Young wrote: >> >>r >>>In article <27vN8.207307$%o.18579187@bin3.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>, "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> writes: >>>a >>>s >>>eL >>>>Unfortunately, the only corporation in any reasonable position to createM >>>>such a system would be VMS's owner.  Lots of luck.  And while open sourceCP >>>>systems will undoubtedly over time acquire some of VMS's strengths, the UnixN >>>>I/O model has always resisted full-blown support for asynchrony, so unlessP >>>>some non-Unix-like open-source system should appear I wouldn't hold out much >>>>hope in that direction.a >>>> >>>> >>>>& >>>	Lacking asynchronous support, yep. >>> ? >>>	Do you use AIO or multiple db_writers in an AIX environment < >>>	with Oracle?  There is a school of thought that multiple% >>>	db_writers works better than AIO.> >>>t8 >>>	PowerPath and/or SecurePath?  Sure, for broken OSes. >>> D >>>	You can layer features on an OS I suppose.  Fortunately, for VMS@ >>>	path switching comes tacitly, naturally.  The only advantage? >>>	of a PowerPath/SecurePath is load balancing.  So maybe that I >>>	is a future SET DEVICE enhancement?  Meaning via a SET DEVICE setting,@ >>>	we can auto-switch if I/O reaches a pre-set threshold and/or >>>	"load"?o >>>h >>>o >>@ >>Any system that uses Veritas Volume Manager, HP-UX for example9 >>has a facility called DMP this provides path balancing.> >>9 >>With Solaris you can use DMP if you are running VxVM orf >>the native Solaris facility. >>, >>Bottom Line is most server OS's have this. >> >> > A > 	I have to quibble quite a bit with that.  Let's say you aren't<C > 	using Veritas.  If  you are using fibre channel storage, EMC andTF > 	Compaq and IBM provide client software so that OSes can path switchC > 	the storage on the fly.  You certainly don't need it if you havet > 	a single HBA. >     9 You seem confused that IBM and EMC would provide softwared> product that you pay for when most OS's have the functionality) you pay for built in them for free. Why ?   ? Solaris has something called MPXIO this provides path balancingrC if you choose to use it. It is part of the OS and quite independantt of Veritas.n  ? FastPath from EMC provides similar functionality with the claimr= that it is better at balancing the load across multiple pathsk2 than MPXIO or Veritas DMP if you are running VxVM.  E I don't have a view on if PowerPath delivers on this claim, customersmC should get copies of EMC's benchmark information, scrutinise it anda@ ideally do some testing of their own before buying the licenses.    B > 	I'm not familiar with IBM's product but EMC's product is calledJ > 	PowerPath and Compaq product is called SecurePath.  The product doesn't= > 	exist on/in VMS as it doesn't need to.  Switching is built B > 	into the OS.  What isn't built into VMS is balancing, hence the > 	request in the subject line.  >     F Switching and balancing are part of MPXIO, EMC claim that PowerPath is> better at balancing thus the rationale for buying the product.   Regardsf Andrew Harrisona   ------------------------------    Date: 17 Jun 2002 11:58:35 -0600+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young)oA Subject: Re: Request for path balancing (Was: Re: Carly was here)o3 Message-ID: <9ggYnPQTEKlN@eisner.encompasserve.org>:   In article <aekne7$i7l$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <andrew_nospam.harrison_remove_this@sun#.com> writes: >  >  > Rob Young wrote: >  >> In article <aed5ea$72h$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <andrew_nospam.harrison_remove_this@sun#.com> writes:  >> t >>>y >>>Rob Young wrote:m >>>d >>>hs >>>>In article <27vN8.207307$%o.18579187@bin3.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>, "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> writes:t >>>> >>>> >>>>M >>>>>Unfortunately, the only corporation in any reasonable position to createdN >>>>>such a system would be VMS's owner.  Lots of luck.  And while open sourceQ >>>>>systems will undoubtedly over time acquire some of VMS's strengths, the UnixEO >>>>>I/O model has always resisted full-blown support for asynchrony, so unlessDQ >>>>>some non-Unix-like open-source system should appear I wouldn't hold out muchr >>>>>hope in that direction. >>>>>d >>>>>s >>>>>s' >>>>	Lacking asynchronous support, yep.r >>>>@ >>>>	Do you use AIO or multiple db_writers in an AIX environment= >>>>	with Oracle?  There is a school of thought that multipleR& >>>>	db_writers works better than AIO. >>>>9 >>>>	PowerPath and/or SecurePath?  Sure, for broken OSes.c >>>>E >>>>	You can layer features on an OS I suppose.  Fortunately, for VMSuA >>>>	path switching comes tacitly, naturally.  The only advantage:@ >>>>	of a PowerPath/SecurePath is load balancing.  So maybe thatJ >>>>	is a future SET DEVICE enhancement?  Meaning via a SET DEVICE settingA >>>>	we can auto-switch if I/O reaches a pre-set threshold and/or5 >>>>	"load"? >>>> >>>> >>> A >>>Any system that uses Veritas Volume Manager, HP-UX for examplec: >>>has a facility called DMP this provides path balancing. >>>o: >>>With Solaris you can use DMP if you are running VxVM or >>>the native Solaris facility.P >>>t- >>>Bottom Line is most server OS's have this.  >>>e >>>m >> eB >> 	I have to quibble quite a bit with that.  Let's say you aren'tD >> 	using Veritas.  If  you are using fibre channel storage, EMC andG >> 	Compaq and IBM provide client software so that OSes can path switch0D >> 	the storage on the fly.  You certainly don't need it if you have >> 	a single HBA.b >> d >  > ; > You seem confused that IBM and EMC would provide softwarer@ > product that you pay for when most OS's have the functionality+ > you pay for built in them for free. Why ?     " 	You are full of beans once again.  A 	Clarify "most".  NT/2000 certainly doesn't have it.  AIX doesn'ts9 	have it.  Netware doesn't have it.  The one I know aboutiG 	is VMS.  All other OSes need a bolt-on product to path switch, whethern@ 	free or otherwise.  They get very confused if they see a device 	down separate paths.    > A > Solaris has something called MPXIO this provides path balancingiE > if you choose to use it. It is part of the OS and quite independanth
 > of Veritas.y >   @ 	You didn't mention that earlier.  Did you have to do a look-up?4 	Thanks for keeping cov abreast of Solaris features.    A > FastPath from EMC provides similar functionality with the claim:? > that it is better at balancing the load across multiple pathsn4 > than MPXIO or Veritas DMP if you are running VxVM.  > 	FastPath from what I see is for SCSI adapters.  Check out the7 	subject line of this thread, I am talking about fibre.S   > C >> 	I'm not familiar with IBM's product but EMC's product is called:K >> 	PowerPath and Compaq product is called SecurePath.  The product doesn'te> >> 	exist on/in VMS as it doesn't need to.  Switching is builtC >> 	into the OS.  What isn't built into VMS is balancing, hence the'  >> 	request in the subject line. >>   >  > H > Switching and balancing are part of MPXIO, EMC claim that PowerPath is@ > better at balancing thus the rationale for buying the product. >   ; 	MPXIO is a Solaris only product and it looks like it worksm> 	with StorEdge products (searching MPXIO on sun.com garners 46= 	hits with no indication that MPXIO works with anything otherdB 	than StorEdge).  Storedge supports Solaris and Windows, whoo-hoo.   				Robn   ------------------------------    Date: 17 Jun 2002 12:11:32 -0600+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young)fA Subject: Re: Request for path balancing (Was: Re: Carly was here)r3 Message-ID: <muvcyZjsOk89@eisner.encompasserve.org>t  a In article <9ggYnPQTEKlN@eisner.encompasserve.org>, young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) writes:l > In article <aekne7$i7l$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <andrew_nospam.harrison_remove_this@sun#.com> writes:   >>   >> e< >> You seem confused that IBM and EMC would provide softwareA >> product that you pay for when most OS's have the functionalityi, >> you pay for built in them for free. Why ? >  > $ > 	You are full of beans once again. > C > 	Clarify "most".  NT/2000 certainly doesn't have it.  AIX doesn'tH; > 	have it.  Netware doesn't have it.  The one I know aboutfI > 	is VMS.  All other OSes need a bolt-on product to path switch, whether B > 	free or otherwise.  They get very confused if they see a device > 	down separate paths.  >   ) 	Correction, add another OS to that list:l   Group: comp.arch.storage= Subject: Re: SAN multipathing & link fail-over for tru64 unixiP From: Martin Oettl <Martin.Oettl@drop-this.compaq.com>, Compaq, part of the new " Date: 17 Jun 2002 11:34:36 -0600      John Herlihy wrote:  t	 > Hi,    l > @ > does anyone know of any tru64 unix software (apart from EMC's G > powerpath) that handles multipathing/fail-over/load balancing across   > multiple fibre channel HBAs? , >  > Cheers,       	 > John   t   G TRU64 V5.0 and higher has this capability built into the OS.           cH SecurePath is a product which does the multipath handling for WNT, W2K,   Novell, Solaris, AIX, HPUX ;-)      				Robi   ------------------------------    Date: 17 Jun 2002 09:22:03 -0600 From: briggs@encompasserve.org+ Subject: Re: rooted devices and /TRANS=CONCo3 Message-ID: <wC421sGuh1OX@eisner.encompasserve.org>   n In article <343f30ae.0206141252.445552de@posting.google.com>, SPAMSINK2001@YAHOO.COM (Alan E. Feldman) writes:H > Now I agree that omitting the trailing colon when the equivalence nameF > is also another logical name should not necessarily cause a problem.H > However, in practice, you are (AFAIK) always okay when you include theH > trailing colon except for logical names that translate to queue names.H > (OTOH, I've never had a problem using "$ DEFINE SYS$INPUT SYS$COMMAND"? > for example, though it works the same with a trailing colon.)p  I Two things agitate to make $ DEFINE SYS$INPUT SYS$COMMAND a special case.e  B 1.  SYS$INPUT is PPF logical name.  When you define an equivalenceF name for it, DCL attempts to open that name as an RMS file and creates< a PPF style equivalence name for the resulting input stream.  *     This RMS $OPEN operation brings us to:  G 2.  SYS$COMMAND is a PPF logical name.  If it's RMS doing the recursive C logical name expansion, it's the IFI buried in the four byte prefix.@ in the equivalence name that is important.  The remainder of the text there is irrelevant.r   	John Briggs   ------------------------------    Date: 18 Jun 2002 00:24:08 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com> Subject: Re: SET WATCH questiont- Message-ID: <87adptdgbb.fsf@prep.synonet.com>m  / JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> writes:h  B > In a SET WATCH FILE/CLASS=ALL question, when I see a "Deaccess", > does this mean $CLOSE ?l  ? A close is the result of deacessing to a 0 ref count. So prettyr
 much so, yes.n   --  < Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.u@                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------  + Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2002 15:26:31 +0000 (UTC)m From: david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk; Subject: Re: SSH v2 (was Re: OpenVMS, Volume Desktop OS...) + Message-ID: <aekv37$2eg$1@aquila.mdx.ac.uk>   h In article <d7791aa1.0206151519.6d72e56a@posting.google.com>, bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski) writes:R >david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk wrote in message news:<aefnki$977$1@aquila.mdx.ac.uk>... >> In article <craig.berry-D5C343.14462614062002@news.directvinternet.com>, "Craig A. Berry" <craig.berry@nospam.SignalTreeSolutions.com> writes:  >> >In article MA >> ><craig.berry-DE7718.13465107062002@news.directvinternet.com>,VI >> > "Craig A. Berry" <craig.berry@nospam.SignalTreeSolutions.com> wrote:e >> >K >> >> In article <adqst1$am3$1@aquila.mdx.ac.uk>, david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk o >> >> wrote: >> >> L >> >I just noticed on the Process Software site today that they now have an 8 >> >SSH product for TCP/IP Services 4.2 and later.  See K >> ><http://www.process.com/tcpip/ssh.html>.  So that's good news, but the OI >> >cost of an add-on will probably be a real difficulty for some of the sD >> >places, like universities, that are most eager to implement SSH  >> >everywhere.  >> rP >> Yes cost maybe an issue. On the otherhand HPQ's DEC TCPIP Services version ofN >> SSH v2 when it eventually appears is very unlikely to be backported to workL >> with UCX V4.2 or VMS 6.2. Certainly we have a number of systems which for, >> various reasons are stuck at that level. R >> I'll probably be contacting our local distributor Essential Computing in the UKR >> to inquire about the product and whether there are any educational discounts on
 >> Monday. >> r
 >> David Webbh >> VMS and Unix team leaderr >> CCSSe >> Middlesex University  >nE >I think Process software gives hobbyist and educational licenses forfA >TCPware ... check it out ... it runs crisper than the others ...   L 1) Politically getting an SSH addon for DEC TCPIP Services will probably be G easier than getting the currently working TCPIP stack totally replaced.,  J 2) As I recall the process webpages did have some good education deals forO    US education establishments. I'm not sure they were ever available in the UKi    to UK Universities.  I 3) Even if I wanted to replace DEC TCPIP Services I'm not sure I'd chooserI    TCPWARE. I Used it admittedly many many years ago and didn't like it'sw    management interface.  
 David Webb VMS and Unix team leader CCSS Middlesex University   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2002 17:50:14 +0100 U From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <andrew_nospam.harrison_remove_this@sun#.com>o: Subject: Re: Sun is on the way out!  Only HP and IBM left!0 Message-ID: <ael4gf$m87$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   Bob Ceculski wrote:q  9 > I didn't say it, the Inquirer does ... guess we will'ntt; > have poor Andrew around here anymore making bogus claims!t, > No wonder he is anxious to trash Alpha ... >  >     2 Bob as you know the only bogus claims made on this7 group are when people start talking about Alpha Serverst4 being high performance systems. You know because you4 were asked to come up with examples that proved this5 claim and you didn't. Don't be too downhearted a longe5 list of people from Kerry to Rob and Freddy have beenc7 asked the same question and failed to provide anything.d  7 Interesting that the article you have posted questions =  4 the claims being made by Var Business, detecting the hand of HP behind the scenes.d  8 I hardly need to point out to you the obvious conclusion8 that this article comes to which is that people in glass; houses shouldn't throw stones. Its always worth rememberinga7 this when reading any FUD originating from the Choir orh) similar sources and this is no different.n   Regards5 Andrew Harrisonm  5 P.S Keep it up you cannot know what an asset you are.l    * > Sun's route to market in total disarray  > . > VARs in white VANs with red crosses on side ( > By Mike Magee, 12/06/2002 15:31:38 BST > E > WHILE LOADS OF OLD Sun timers are quietly pushing off to spend moredD > time with their family, watch humming birds sip nectar or fish forD > dead trout like Intel Craig Barrett does, it seems that the firm's4 > value added reseller channel is in total disarray.F > That certainly appears to be the message US distributor/dealer titleG > Var Business is transmitting - with a scathing attack on the state of  > Sun's VAR business.t > F > But we wonder if HPQ's FUDmeisters have been busy behind the scenes.A > Because its disties are probably none too happy about its plans  > either...  > H > The newspaper claims that many of Sun's resellers are teetering on theH > edge of bankruptcy or shutting up shop while spinners at the firm tell< > the world that Sun is separating the wheat from the chaff. > A > CRN compares Sun to Nero, bashing out some Pagannini while Romen
 > ignites. > E > It even recommends that people selling Sun kit today should dump ito) > immediately and move to other products.w > G > Some of the problems include no marketing help for either big serversnD > or for Cobalt products, meaning that if the big system integratorsC > want to promote Sun products they have to dig deep into their ownB
 > pockets. > E > Needless to say, the opponents - and that includes the bigger HP oflD > course, are making hay while the Sun doesn't shine, and we presumeD > that behind the scenes adversary Intel is also stoking the FUDDish > fuel.u > G > In fact, we detect the hand of HPQ's competitive marketing department  > trying to hide its own plans.p > E > A story posted on EB News today outlines the steps HPQ is taking tohG > cut costs - and those including squeezing suppliers and disties until  > the pips, well, squeak.n > F > Yes - distributors can probably forget all about huge coop marketingG > funds from the New Age P as well, as it strives to compete with Dell,uE > which started off with low costs and still manages to cut them even/ > more.P > C > The big worry here is that if Sun really has messed up on its VAR E > channel so badly, and if it can't fix the problems, we might end upaE > with a duopoly where users have got the choice between HPQ and IBM.n >    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2002 13:38:47 -0400D1 From: Michael Austin <maustin@firstdbasource.com>e: Subject: Re: Sun is on the way out!  Only HP and IBM left!2 Message-ID: <3D0E1EA7.9211A716@firstdbasource.com>  ( Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy wrote:4 > Bob as you know the only bogus claims made on this9 > group are when people start talking about Alpha Serverss6 > being high performance systems. You know because you6 > were asked to come up with examples that proved this7 > claim and you didn't. Don't be too downhearted a longa    G Not to get in the way of your current, ongoing battle, but, what planetfH do you live on Andrew -- I would think that the Super Computer center inD Pitt would qualify as a high performance "ALPHA" system as would theC computing center out there in the desert at a "secret" governmentalfH agency. And IIRC they  are rated as "The fastest systems on the planet".  G Ever wonder why SPARC/Slowaris wasn't included in the RFP? too slow andn definately not scalable. --   Regards,  7 Michael Austin            Registered Linux User #261163o7 First DBA Source, Inc.    http://www.firstdbasource.comt Sr. Consultant 704-947-1089 (Office)o 704-236-4377 (Mobile)n   ------------------------------    Date: 17 Jun 2002 07:45:52 -0600- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)r Subject: Re: unix historyC3 Message-ID: <$laAdzoQg$zL@eisner.encompasserve.org>   c In article <3D09ECEA.898151E7@mindspring.com>, Atlant Schmidt <atlantnospam@mindspring.com> writes:t > 4 > Actually, much of the excrement's going to hit the> > ventilator on Tuesday, January 19, 2038 at GMT 03:14:07 UTC.; > The next second, the clock spills over into bit <31>, andW6 > we'll get to see how many C applications (on *MANY*,+ > *MANY* operating systems *INCLUDING* VMS) 0 > mistakenly treated time_t as a signed integer.      Guess again:a         from VMS decc$types.h:  *        typedef unsigned long int __time_t;  "       which is used by VMS time.h:          typedef __time_t time_t;6    r    Compare to Solaris time.h:R  "        typedef long        time_t;   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2002 09:18:05 -0400e2 From: Atlant Schmidt <atlantnospam@mindspring.com> Subject: Re: unix historya. Message-ID: <3D0DE18D.5273DD4B@mindspring.com>   Bob Koehler wrote:  e > In article <3D09ECEA.898151E7@mindspring.com>, Atlant Schmidt <atlantnospam@mindspring.com> writes:i > >U6 > > Actually, much of the excrement's going to hit the@ > > ventilator on Tuesday, January 19, 2038 at GMT 03:14:07 UTC.= > > The next second, the clock spills over into bit <31>, andm8 > > we'll get to see how many C applications (on *MANY*,- > > *MANY* operating systems *INCLUDING* VMS)i2 > > mistakenly treated time_t as a signed integer. >y >    Guess again:  >e >       from VMS decc$types.h: >o, >        typedef unsigned long int __time_t; >u$ >       which is used by VMS time.h: >>! >        typedef __time_t time_t;l >l >    Compare to Solaris time.h:l >D$ >        typedef long        time_t;  ' Gee Bob, I thought we already clarifiedc$ the fact that I said "*APPLICATIONS*+ in my original posting. (I'll happily grant  you that the OS got it right.)  ) Nic already awarded me the free beer! :-)v   Atlant   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2002 15:31:39 +0200tE From: Jan C. =?iso-8859-1?Q?Vorbr=FCggen?= <jvorbrueggen@mediasec.de>r Subject: Re: unix history + Message-ID: <3D0DE4BB.FDE70F7D@mediasec.de>e  3 > But please note that I said "C applications", noti3 > C Operating System services or C Run-Time LibraryP1 > functions. There's plenty more C-code out there>6 > that wasn't written by DEC (etc.); I'll bet at least3 > a few lines of it runs on VMS *AND* treats time_th > as a signed integer.  = Any programmer who treated a time_t as anything but an opaquee> variable to which a certain subset of the RTL functions apply,= but which otherwise is not to be touched by his program, will @ be condemed to only use Windows 3.1 on a 386 for the rest of his life.   D I don't readily believe a lot of applications fall in this category, but I'm willing to be educated.    	Jan   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2002 17:01:25 GMTn. From: "De vernufteling" <e.vandyken@chello.nl>F Subject: Re: Urgent help required( Link command getting struck in vax)0 Message-ID: <FBoP8.2134378$Lj7.71068257@Flipper>   All,  L Sometimes I also have a link command which hangs. Strange enough when you doD the same commands in a batch job the linker tells you whan is wrong.   Evert van Dijken.n  < "Mahesh V S Jetti" <mvsjetti@hss.hns.com> schreef in bericht7 news:adb15ffe.0206112042.66cd76a0@posting.google.com...I > Hi,'F >   My system is having different units. When i am trying to build one
 > unit theD >  link command is getting struck. Its giving no response. The exact > command is >  as follows. >e/ >  CM BUILD LINKFILE NOI NOIHAND NOIHAND.OPL ""oF >  LINK/FULL/NOCROSS/TRACEBACK/MAP=NOI_LST:NOIHAND/EXE=NOI_EXE:NOIHAND* > NOI$OBJ:NOIHAND, NOI$COM:NOIHAND.OPW/OPT >tG >  This command is not giving any repsonse.It waits there indefintely.ID > hadh( >  to do ^c to come out of this command. > E >  can u give me some pointers as to why linker waits indefinitely atf > the abovew7 >  command? or how to proceed in this kind of scenario? - >              Any help is higly appreciated.  >  Thanks in advance,V	 >  Maheshs   ------------------------------    Date: 17 Jun 2002 06:54:46 -0700( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)> Subject: Re: US FDA ponders Slowaris over VMS ... what morons!= Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0206170554.52e0b23e@posting.google.com>c  a JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message news:<3D0D4A6E.9AC14E22@videotron.ca>...n > Bob Ceculski wrote:bC > > Why in earth would you ever dump VMS with EV7 coming out and gonC > > to a Cert Bug filled, slow unix garbage os like slowaris, whicha$ > > may soon follow the way of tru64 >  > lets see:t  > 	-more defined platform future5 > 	-no second guessing of Sun's commitment to Solarisi: > 	-if you're forced to plan a migration with VMS to IA64,1 > 	-tons more applications on Solaris than on VMSoB > 	-other systems getting closer to VMS's clustering capabilities. >   D well J.F., you are starting to sound like Gartner ... what makes youB think Sun is committed to Slowaris?  They like hp have given up onC sparky and seek to do what you critize Q/HP for doing, moving to an A unknown, untested platform in Hammer, which with current debut isa@ starting to look like Itanic One!  This makes more sense to you?  E as for clustering, close only counts in horseshoes as 9/11 proved ...n   > H > gartner may be biased, but it is still respected. That is what counts.  1 anyone who relies on biased reports is a fool ...a   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2002 10:57:48 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>i> Subject: Re: US FDA ponders Slowaris over VMS ... what morons!+ Message-ID: <3D0DF8E2.9CA76A3@videotron.ca>t   Bob Ceculski wrote: F > well J.F., you are starting to sound like Gartner ... what makes youD > think Sun is committed to Slowaris?  They like hp have given up on	 > sparky    L HP has given up not only on Alpha but also on VMS. What does it say when theN manager of VMS and VMS engineers tells us bluntly not to expect any mainstream
 advertising ?c  N Sun has no problems touting its horn in mainstream advertising for a competingN product.  I am sorry to say this and no insults are meant, but is there reallyM any hope for VMS when the only folks inside of HP who could fight for it have K given up hopes and feel that fighting to get advertsing would be a waste oft energy ?  M The murder of Alpha and anemic IA64 aren't what is killing VMS, they are only N contributing to its death. The principal cancer is still the lack of marketingK of VMS and the lack of credible engagement for VMS.  Committing to maintainN7 the OS doesn't mean that you commit to make it succeed.    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2002 11:44:38 -0400 * From: "rob kas" <rob@paychoice.nospam.com>> Subject: Re: US FDA ponders Slowaris over VMS ... what morons!3 Message-ID: <3d0e03e7$0$1429$8e9e3842@news.atx.net>4     Well   Bob  8   Let's see you want me to spend millions on a  Hardware#   Platform that has a declared EOL.i  A   On a O/S that is being ported to a unproven Arch that is reallys$    little more then a hot rodded PC.  ;   On a company thats being merged when almost all High Techi    Mergers fail.      Yep your logic is flawlesse  &                                    Rob  H > > well J.F., you are starting to sound like Gartner ... what makes youD > think Sun is committed to Slowaris?  They like hp have given up onE > sparky and seek to do what you critize Q/HP for doing, moving to anYC > unknown, untested platform in Hammer, which with current debut isrB > starting to look like Itanic One!  This makes more sense to you? >tG > as for clustering, close only counts in horseshoes as 9/11 proved ...N >e > >nJ > > gartner may be biased, but it is still respected. That is what counts. > 3 > anyone who relies on biased reports is a fool ...e   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2002 18:03:27 +0100 U From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <andrew_nospam.harrison_remove_this@sun#.com>-> Subject: Re: US FDA ponders Slowaris over VMS ... what morons!0 Message-ID: <ael598$mif$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>  5 Bob, why keep repeating the slowaris BS? I have asked 7 you repeatedly to provide something anything to justifyn7 your claims and to date you have been unable to come upe with anything.  6 So cut it out, its offensive and stupid, I can produce5 reams of data to support my claims that Alpha serversl8 don't live up to the performance hype you cannot provide anything to refute them.  6 And in that you also have the explanation, people like4 you who jump up and down and yell Solaris/SPARC slow2 Alpha/Tru64/OpenVMS fast get caught out if someone6 checks the basis on which these claims are being made.  8 Getting caught out is never a good sales tactic, getting7 caught out and being absurdly complacent is even worse.c5 If I was a sales person complacent ignorance would be 2 a character trait that I would be happy to wish on a competitors sales team..  8 Ignore all your pre-conceptions about Alphas performance advantage they are all wrong.d   Regardst Andrew Harrison:   Bob Ceculski wrote:x  A > Why in earth would you ever dump VMS with EV7 coming out and goeA > to a Cert Bug filled, slow unix garbage os like slowaris, whichl@ > may soon follow the way of tru64 ... and our govt. is spendingA > 10's of thousands of dollars on Gartner ... what double morons!a? > Fools, imbiciles, idiots ... thank goodness the defense dept.a? > isn't as stupid ... EV7 VMS will outrun slowaris for years tooA > come ... waste more of our money running 80,000 chip boxes thats? > will IO wise scale nowhere close to EV7 ... if this moron CIOiB > does this, we will all have to watch what we eat from now on ...= > Slowaris will poison the food supply ... not to mention thep= > pharmaceutical industry ... they talk about wanting to saveeB > money, and instead of plopping in those EV7's, they are going to? > port to a slow, unsecure, expensive os like slowaris, anotherT? > brainstorm ... this CIO idiot should be fired for number one, F > wasting our tax money on the Gartner group and their biased reports!2 > Call your congressman and senators immediately!  >  > F > US Food and Drug Administration loses confidence in Hewlett-Packard, > Intelt > : > Itanium "unproven", Tru64 dead, VMS future questionable ( > By Mike Magee, 16/06/2002 17:44:23 BST >  > G > CONFIDENTIAL US GOVERNMENT DOCUMENTS SEEN BY THE INQUIRER reveal thatSH > the FDA (Food and Drug Administration) mega-department is engaged on aB > massive re-evaluation of its server platforms and is consideringB > dumping VMS systems it has, while it also appears to think IntelA > 64-bit plans are unproved, after taking advice from a number of ' > analysts including the Gartner Group.lE > Over 40 per cent of its big tin currently runs on Alpha-VMS combos.i > G > The 50 page report, prepared by Anteon Corporation and shown to us byiE > a disgruntled European "Compaq", now HP, executive in London at theaF > end of last week, shows that the FDA was originally choosing between3 > four different operating systems for its big tin.  > E > The FDA report is relying heavily on advice from the Gartner Group,eE > which published information earlier this year which appeared to say0G > there was no future for VMS on Itanium. The executive told us that hemE > considered that as it spent tens of thousands of dollars on GartnerOB > reports during 2002, this was all a little too ironic for him to > absorb at once.w > F > Other firms that the FDA's analysts appear to have relied on include3 > the Meta Group, the Aberdeen Group, and DH Brown.t > E > The four OSes that were under evaluation were Sun's Solaris, Linux, E > IBM AIX and Compaq's "Tru64" but the last looks like it's the least G > likely to score any future wins, while the report also doubts whetheruF > Intel's plans to migrate VMS on Itanium - its IPF strategy - has got > much going for it. > F > Over 40 per cent of FDA non-Intel servers use Alpha machines runningH > VMS, but the report appears to believe Gartner over Compaq/HP, forcing8 > the huge government department to re-think everything. > H > A Gartner report, which the FDA document quotes, said that running VMSB > on an Itanium chip was a matter of a round peg in a square hole.G > Interesting. The metaphor works better the other way round. Compaq/HP.F > denies there's any kind of problem with this future implementation - > backed by Intel. > D > Sun is likely to win FDA business - because notes we took from the> > extensive presentation show that while Linux is reliable andD > economical, it is not considered as a suitable enterprise databaseD > server operating system for such a big US government organisation. > F > Because Tru64 Unix was decked by HP/Compaq, the FDA is being advisedG > that it cannot be considered as any kind of standard for this kind ofoC > body, the report said. Sun tin and Solaris are cheaper than IBM'sd > answers too, it suggests.t > E > So Sun's Solaris appears to be the answer which the FDA is activelylF > interested in implementing when next it spends big money on big tin. > H > The report - damning for both the current bosses at HPQ and at Intel -B > says that while Itaniums may reduce the cost of computing, it isH > "still unproven" and may not "flourish" for at least one to two years. > G > The FDA is even considering using AMD Hammer processors, according toh > the documents we saw.n > H > The INQUIRER will have a full report, with the likely implications, in# > the next issue of our magazine.   > E > * THE FDA Web site shows that the US president wants its budget fors3 > 2003 to be $1.726 billion. Here's the break down.  >    ------------------------------    Date: 17 Jun 2002 23:50:17 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>' Subject: Re: VMS advertising suggestion - Message-ID: <87it4hdhvq.fsf@prep.synonet.com>u  . "Kenneth Farmer" <kfarmer@openvms.org> writes:  1 > Don't you mean "ready-for-prime-rib" Itanic. :)d  C I suspect what you call prime-rib is what we got years ago from then+ butcher. Just we caled it `Dogs Meat' then.    -- n< Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.i@                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2002 11:21:14 +0100a( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1>= Subject: Re: VMS as a example of disaster and fault tolerancet) Message-ID: <3D0DB81A.D0C382FA@127.0.0.1>s   Bill Todd wrote: > : > "Rob Young" <young_r@encompasserve.org> wrote in message/ > news:KWDpywGs9owb@eisner.encompasserve.org...o9 > > In article <3D0A5551.9F3DB674@videotron.ca>, JF Mezei ( > <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> writes:( > > > Sue posted about Cantor Fitzgerald > > >-6 > > > Su, nice story, but I didn't see mention of VMS. > > >m > >hB > > That is because your vision is so clouded with finding badnessH > > in most everything, you aren't willing to even look and double check) > > before you make such wild assertions.a > >r; > >  The north tower impact took out eSpeed's operations on J > > the 103rd floor, which included some 250 Compaq Computer Corp. and SunL > > Microsystems Inc. servers running Windows NT, Alpha/OpenVMS and Solaris. > J > While JF is hardly legendary for his accuracy, the fact remains that theL > story left the reader with the impression that all the above platforms mayN > (or may not) have contributed to the system's overall robustness, hence onlyN > succeeded in getting a mention of VMS's name rather than its superiority out > into the world.a   Exactly.  C And Windows NT is mentioned first, yet A[lpha] or O[penVMS] or evens V[MS] comes before W.r  G Opinion: It's no use being the best if you'll settle for playing seconda fiddle. Modesty is dishonesty.  
 Mr. Picky. -- n( Regards, Nic Clews CSC Computer Sciences nclews at csc dot com.   ------------------------------    Date: 17 Jun 2002 06:12:14 -0700( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)5 Subject: Re: What kind of morons work at the FDA now?0= Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0206170512.2736e554@posting.google.com>u  n John Eisenschmidt <jweisen@eisenschmidt.org> wrote in message news:<20020617031841.A25436@eisenschmidt.org>... > K > Which my boss has not authorized me to buy. Compaq decreed "Alpha is dead K > ", and every pointy haired boss has head the cry. I'm discouraged from butK > ying any new Alpha hardware. Why don't you take the job as the CIO of a lnL > arge corporation or two and then you can decide to ignore those decisions. >s  G That is why your corporation and others are going under, you don't know E what you are doing ... you waste money thinking you are going to savegG money ... my bosses trust my decisions, that is what they are paying mepG for ... I am not part of the dumbed down idiots running businesses intopH the ground, I have a mind and I use it ... with Gartner and ceo's havingF to make IT managers decisions, it sounds like you are all idiots whose decisions can't be trusted ...    > K > You know, raw processing power only goes so far. Frankly, as a DBA, I'm acK > lways looking for faster IO potential, I'm fine with current CPU speeds -g! >  including the Ultra Sparc III.   : If you want to pay more for less, that is your problem ...   > I > > The FDA is even considering using AMD Hammer processors, according tol > > the documents we saw.  > > J > > Now that definitely proves who we are dealing here with ... Hammer hasK > > just had announced delays, and early tests showed it is an overated chiy >  p,GK > > and hammer is more proven than Itanium?  Boy is stupidity showing itsele >  fF > > in the FDA!  Morons, imbiciles, idiots!  And these people make six > > figure incomes?t > K > Delays are understandable. I'd rather here of a delay and wonder why then;? >  suffer through the Itanium timetables we have for years now.d  G and what makes you think Hammer will not de any different?  A delay haseE already popped up, and bugs certainly can down the road ... Alpha hasaE 10 years of proven superiority behind it ... and has at least another D 5-10 or more for you, esp. if you are happy with Slowaris speeds ...   > K > It is your brand of inflamatory anti-FUD that does any movement no good.  K > Spend your time doing constructive with your anger, or studying for the Ss > olaris certification.r  D why would I want to study for a dying OS?  Slowaris will soon follow@ tru64 and others ... linux will eviscerate unix, didn't you hear	 Capellas?D   >  > -- _1 > John W. Eisenschmidt <jweisen@eisenschmidt.org>e   ------------------------------    Date: 17 Jun 2002 06:40:19 -0700( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)5 Subject: Re: What kind of morons work at the FDA now? = Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0206170540.6fbbab0b@posting.google.com>h  n John Eisenschmidt <jweisen@eisenschmidt.org> wrote in message news:<20020617031841.A25436@eisenschmidt.org>... > H > > well, dummies, their is something coming out there called EV7, which > K > Which my boss has not authorized me to buy. Compaq decreed "Alpha is deadrK > ", and every pointy haired boss has head the cry. I'm discouraged from bu7K > ying any new Alpha hardware. Why don't you take the job as the CIO of a l L > arge corporation or two and then you can decide to ignore those decisions.  E that is why corporations are going under ... from stupid decisions byhE stupid people ... if ceo's are making IT decisions based on the news,nA or Gartner, then it is obvious that they don't trust their own ITWB managers ... my bosses trust me, that is what they pay me for, to A make computer decisions ... I have a mind, and I use it, not likelE the dumbed down managers of today who don't know what they are doing,LB and just follow the crowd ... my bosses have seen dollar wise overE the years how I have saved them tons of money, and my bonuses reflectn my success ... t   > K > > by early estimates will blow the socks off of sparc, hammer, jammer, ann >  dA > > any other inferior 64 bit platform out there ... am I missingbK > > something here?  EV7 is just out now, with EV79 upgrades the next year  
 >  or two,K > > and if my second grade math is correct, 1 plus 1 is two, so EV7-79 will-K > > not due them for a few years while they wait to see the outcome of itanB >  iumB > > before wasting tax payers dollars moving onto a slow, unsecureK > > platform like Slowaris?  EV7 would due them the next five years easily.< >  No.? > > wonder the govt. is going broke!  Morons!  Absolute idiots!d > K > You know, raw processing power only goes so far. Frankly, as a DBA, I'm awK > lways looking for faster IO potential, I'm fine with current CPU speeds -k! >  including the Ultra Sparc III.l  : if you like paying more for less, that is your problem ...   > I > > The FDA is even considering using AMD Hammer processors, according to  > > the documents we saw.w > > J > > Now that definitely proves who we are dealing here with ... Hammer hasK > > just had announced delays, and early tests showed it is an overated chia >  p,tK > > and hammer is more proven than Itanium?  Boy is stupidity showing itselr >  fF > > in the FDA!  Morons, imbiciles, idiots!  And these people make six > > figure incomes?o > K > Delays are understandable. I'd rather here of a delay and wonder why theng? >  suffer through the Itanium timetables we have for years now.r  B And what makes you think Hammer will not go thru the same?  It has= already announced a delay, and early specs show its power wash= overstated, the company admitted it ... Alpha has 10 years ofa? proven superior performance and experience ... and with EV7 now7/ showing its power, to move now is plain stupid!t   >  > K > It is your brand of inflamatory anti-FUD that does any movement no good. 3K > Spend your time doing constructive with your anger, or studying for the Ss > olaris certification.t  A sorry this is called commen sense, something no one seems to havei> anymore ... as for Slowaris on sparky ... unix and 80,000 chipA boxes are dying to linux ... didn't you hear Capellas?  Why woulda@ we step backwards from Alpha VMS to Slowaris/sparky?  And if the? FDA already has many sparky boxes, why put all your eggs in onem' basket?  I thought that was a no no ...   D VMS stands for Virtual Memory System. It is an operating system thatG > Digital Equipment Corporation developed after the RSX system that ran H > on the PDP series of computers (circa late 70's early 80's - hence VMSD > post-dates Unix -- more history here). VMS is process heavy ratherH > than process light so programs load quite slowly - once loaded howeverE > they make for reasonable real time perfomance despite the fact thateE > VMS was never designed to be a real time OS. Indeed this ability tomE > "run real time" is why VMS is not merely a good daemon platform but,2 > the daemon platform - yup even better than Unix.   ------------------------------    Date: 17 Jun 2002 06:40:22 -0700( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)5 Subject: Re: What kind of morons work at the FDA now?e= Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0206170540.454196b1@posting.google.com>   n John Eisenschmidt <jweisen@eisenschmidt.org> wrote in message news:<20020617031841.A25436@eisenschmidt.org>... > H > > well, dummies, their is something coming out there called EV7, which > K > Which my boss has not authorized me to buy. Compaq decreed "Alpha is dead K > ", and every pointy haired boss has head the cry. I'm discouraged from butK > ying any new Alpha hardware. Why don't you take the job as the CIO of a l L > arge corporation or two and then you can decide to ignore those decisions.  E that is why corporations are going under ... from stupid decisions byrE stupid people ... if ceo's are making IT decisions based on the news,fA or Gartner, then it is obvious that they don't trust their own IT B managers ... my bosses trust me, that is what they pay me for, to A make computer decisions ... I have a mind, and I use it, not likeoE the dumbed down managers of today who don't know what they are doing,3B and just follow the crowd ... my bosses have seen dollar wise overE the years how I have saved them tons of money, and my bonuses reflecte my success ... r   > K > > by early estimates will blow the socks off of sparc, hammer, jammer, anh >  dA > > any other inferior 64 bit platform out there ... am I missinggK > > something here?  EV7 is just out now, with EV79 upgrades the next year a
 >  or two,K > > and if my second grade math is correct, 1 plus 1 is two, so EV7-79 willoK > > not due them for a few years while they wait to see the outcome of itana >  iumB > > before wasting tax payers dollars moving onto a slow, unsecureK > > platform like Slowaris?  EV7 would due them the next five years easily.l >  No6? > > wonder the govt. is going broke!  Morons!  Absolute idiots!c > K > You know, raw processing power only goes so far. Frankly, as a DBA, I'm a,K > lways looking for faster IO potential, I'm fine with current CPU speeds -a! >  including the Ultra Sparc III.w  : if you like paying more for less, that is your problem ...   > I > > The FDA is even considering using AMD Hammer processors, according tom > > the documents we saw.l > > J > > Now that definitely proves who we are dealing here with ... Hammer hasK > > just had announced delays, and early tests showed it is an overated chil >  p, K > > and hammer is more proven than Itanium?  Boy is stupidity showing itselo >  fF > > in the FDA!  Morons, imbiciles, idiots!  And these people make six > > figure incomes?i > K > Delays are understandable. I'd rather here of a delay and wonder why then ? >  suffer through the Itanium timetables we have for years now.o  B And what makes you think Hammer will not go thru the same?  It has= already announced a delay, and early specs show its power wash= overstated, the company admitted it ... Alpha has 10 years ofn? proven superior performance and experience ... and with EV7 nowr/ showing its power, to move now is plain stupid!a   >  > K > It is your brand of inflamatory anti-FUD that does any movement no good. xK > Spend your time doing constructive with your anger, or studying for the S  > olaris certification.   A sorry this is called commen sense, something no one seems to have > anymore ... as for Slowaris on sparky ... unix and 80,000 chipA boxes are dying to linux ... didn't you hear Capellas?  Why would @ we step backwards from Alpha VMS to Slowaris/sparky?  And if the? FDA already has many sparky boxes, why put all your eggs in oneD' basket?  I thought that was a no no ...E  D VMS stands for Virtual Memory System. It is an operating system thatG > Digital Equipment Corporation developed after the RSX system that ran H > on the PDP series of computers (circa late 70's early 80's - hence VMSD > post-dates Unix -- more history here). VMS is process heavy ratherH > than process light so programs load quite slowly - once loaded howeverE > they make for reasonable real time perfomance despite the fact thateE > VMS was never designed to be a real time OS. Indeed this ability toeE > "run real time" is why VMS is not merely a good daemon platform but 2 > the daemon platform - yup even better than Unix.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2002 09:21:10 -0400e0 From: "Syltrem" <syltremspammenot@videotron.com>1 Subject: Re: What process is using this pagefile?s4 Message-ID: <6nlP8.3589$H67.19475@tor-nn1.netcom.ca>  H "Keith Parris" <keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com> a crit dans le message de8 news: cf15391e.0206121302.434b6d44@posting.google.com...= > "Syltrem" <syltremspammenot@videotron.com> wrote in messageb0 news:<AxIN8.3229$H67.17254@tor-nn1.netcom.ca>...L > > I would like to deinstall one pagefile from my system (it's currently inG > > deinstall pending), and would like to know what processes are stillo usingL > > it.  > G > (I cheated by looking this up in a Google search, because it has beeny# > discussed in comp.os.vms before.)r   Oh! I could not find it!   >eB > $SHOW MEMORY/FILES/FULL will tell you the indices for all of theE > pagefiles, and once you've identified the index for the pagefile of 5 > interest then you can sift through the output from:o >    $ANALYZE/SYSTEM >    SDA> SHOW PROCESS/PHD ALLD > looking for processes which use that pagefile index, and then killC > those processes.  And you can check the "system" process pagefile  > assignment with:! >    SDA> SHOW PROCESS/SYSTEM/PHDnD > but if the "system" process is using that pagefile, I think you're > looking at a reboot, IIRC. >l   This is what I did in the end.J Found out 3 or 4 jobs were system jobs (LANMAN, etc) So I ended up doing a reboot. Too bad for my uptime!     Thanks for helping, everyone!x Syltremb    * TJPI(pid,"PAGFILLOC") for a match with theA > desired index, but that only finds a process if the pagefile ofbH > interest is the Current pagefile assignment for that process, and thusF > might miss processes which used that pagefile earlier and still haveA > some pages in it, although they've been subsequently reassignedn > another primary pagefile. < > ----------------------------------------------------------< > Keith Parris | parris <at> DECUServe <dot> decus <dot> org   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2002 07:58:26 -0700o* From: "Alder" <MUNDDGNTDYTV@spammotel.com>0 Subject: Re: Why is Compaq memory so expensive ?+ Message-ID: <3d0df91f$1@obsidian.gov.bc.ca>l  C And memory for an old AS-1000A?  How much would a 256MB option run?    Alders    < "Island (hpaq.net)" <dbturner@islandco.com> wrote in message) news:ugmrl8bmd2h953@news.supernews.com...l. > "I don't know a third party supplier for the >  GS series ....."s >o > You do now !!! > & > I will get a quote for you on Monday >e > David Turner > Island Computers US Corp.. > 2700 Gregory Street  > Savannah GA 31404- > Toll Free: 1-877 636 4332 ! > International: 001 912 447 6622 " > Facsimile:      001 912 201 0096 > dbturner@hpaq.net: > www.hpaq.net >g= > +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++nJ > Dirk Munk <munk@home.nl> wrote in message news:3D0B5BB2.70607@home.nl... > > Bob Ceculski wrote: / > > > Dirk Munk <munk@home.nl> wrote in messagea$ > news:<3D0AEAAE.4090605@home.nl>... > > >DI > > >>Yesterday I asked Compaq for the price of a 2 GB GS80 memory stack.e* > > >>The list price is >  20,000 (euro). > > >>H > > >>I also looked at the price of 4 pcs of Infineon 133 MHz 512 MB ECC > Dimms. > > >>That would cost  800. > > >>G > > >>Now I'm trying to figure out why the Compaq stack is more then 20i times  > moreL > > >>expensive. Its is good memory (but Infineon is too), and it is purpose > build andaG > > >>designed. But for that price I expect Curly and Carly to pack thee > modules inE > > >>their lunchbreak, and send them to the customer with a personalu > thank-you note > > >>from both of them. > > >>G > > >>It is such a pity that these modules are so expensive, because it9
 > preventsJ > > >>customers from doing the best thing you can do with a Alpha: fill it up > withE > > >>memory. make sure your applications use it, and let your systemn scream.  > Wasn'tC > > >>that why 64 bit processors were designed in the first place ?s > > >n > > >vH > > > DEC memory has always been more expensive because supposedly it isF > > > tested thoroughly for compatibility and bugs ... however we haveE > > > used third party memory (i.e. Dataram) for some time now in ourC@ > > > Vaxes and Alphas without any problems, so buy third party! > >dI > > Wish I could. But it seems GS80/160/320 memory is very different fromh ES40L > > memory (we have 3rd party for that). I don't know a third party supplier	 > for thee > > GS series .....  > >  > >o > >v >o >i   ------------------------------  + Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2002 17:03:55 +0100 (MET)n9 From: Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>t3 Subject: Re: Why is TCPIP$ROUTE.DAT in SYS$COMMON ? ; Message-ID: <01KJ1M9EDWHE984WQP@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>W  D > TCP/IP engineering doesn't know too much about VMS clusters. Home I > directories for the different TCP/IP service accounts are sometimes in eI > SYS$SYSDEVICE, sometimes in SYS$SPECIFIC. I think it's about time they -J > did properly support for VMS clusters. One thing that should be done is K > that everything pertaining to TCP/IP goes into it's own rooted directory  J > tree. This would make it easier to maintain. It *is* a layered product,  > after all.   Amen, brother!   ------------------------------    Date: 18 Jun 2002 00:19:23 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>3 Subject: Re: Why is TCPIP$ROUTE.DAT in SYS$COMMON ?b- Message-ID: <87elf5dgj8.fsf@prep.synonet.com>   / Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) writes:h  ] > In article <3D0C9C55.6060803@xs4all.nospam.nl>, Bart Zorn <B.Zorn@xs4all.nospam.nl> writes:i > > Hans Vlems wrote:   @ > >> IMHO the last thing you'd want in a VMS cluster is that itsC > >> availability gets affected by a an external unit such as an IPe@ > >> router. Putting the routing database in SYS$COMMON at leastF > >> suggests to have all cluster nodes in the same IP network.  ThereF > >> are probably many sites that still happily use 10.* and 192.168.*< > >> networks on their LAN all routed by one box (per set of > >> networks).   M > > Since when is the availability of an OpenVMS cluster dependant on TCP/IP?s  E > > OK, if the only way to access the cluster from outside is througha > > TCP/IP, you may be rigth.e  E > Since when is the availability of a VMS cluster dependent on access  > "from outside" ?  :-)m  @ And since when do you need a `LAN' to run a cluster? They got IP' running over MC, CI, DSSI, or SANs yet?s  C The other more significant point, is that if you have a distributed D cluster, then you are VERY likley to have been bright enough to have@ several IP venders hooking you to the world, so the routing will differ as a result.p   -- h< Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda. @                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2002.334 ************************