1 INFO-VAX	Tue, 18 Jun 2002	Volume 2002 : Issue 335       Contents: "system-f-illiofunc" Re: "Tru64 and OpenVMS Times"  Re: "Tru64 and OpenVMS Times"  Re: "Tru64 and OpenVMS Times" @ Re: "We stay with VMS because we have forgotten that we have it"@ Re: "We stay with VMS because we have forgotten that we have it"@ Re: "We stay with VMS because we have forgotten that we have it"@ Re: "We stay with VMS because we have forgotten that we have it"@ Re: "We stay with VMS because we have forgotten that we have it") Re: A Proposal for All C.O.V. to Consider % A Proposal for All C.O.V. to Consider ) Re: A Proposal for All C.O.V. to Consider 8 Advanced Server V7.3 - "limit on concurrent connections"< Re: Advanced Server V7.3 - "limit on concurrent connections"< Re: Advanced Server V7.3 - "limit on concurrent connections"< Re: Advanced Server V7.3 - "limit on concurrent connections"< Re: Advanced Server V7.3 - "limit on concurrent connections"< Re: Advanced Server V7.3 - "limit on concurrent connections" ANN: Updated JUMP  Re: ANN: Updated JUMP 3 Re: Another analyst says VMS port won't be finished 3 Re: Another analyst says VMS port won't be finished ) Another C and PL/I question - Descriptors  Re: Apache 2.0 and Tomcat 4.0  Re: Apache 2.0 and Tomcat 4.0  Apache bug affect VMS Apache? 5 Call or email hp ... they will answer your questions! 9 Re: Call or email hp ... they will answer your questions! 9 Re: Call or email hp ... they will answer your questions! 9 Re: Call or email hp ... they will answer your questions!  Re: Copying a file via FID Re: Could linux become VMS?  Re: Could linux become VMS?  Re: Could linux become VMS?  Re: Could linux become VMS? > Re: DCL Puzzle: Can you produce this DIRECTORY command output?
 Re: DiskQuota ! Re: install image /write/resident ? Re: Interesting ZDnet post about Tandem -- Can VMS do the same? ? Re: Interesting ZDnet post about Tandem -- Can VMS do the same? ? Re: Interesting ZDnet post about Tandem -- Can VMS do the same? ? Re: Interesting ZDnet post about Tandem -- Can VMS do the same? ? Re: Interesting ZDnet post about Tandem -- Can VMS do the same? ? Re: Interesting ZDnet post about Tandem -- Can VMS do the same? B Re: Latest UNZIP? (was: WASD 7.2.2 download is not HTROOT722.ZIP?) Re: Linus' comments about VMS  Re: Linus' comments about VMS  Re: Linus' comments about VMS  Re: Linus' comments about VMS  Re: Linus' comments about VMS  Re: more tpu doubts , Re: My conversation with Linus about VMS ...B Re: New picture virus threatens data ... better dust off VMS mail!. Re: One of Terry's shoes seems to have dropped. Re: One of Terry's shoes seems to have dropped. Re: One of Terry's shoes seems to have dropped. Re: One of Terry's shoes seems to have dropped Re: Open Letter to HP  Re: Open Letter to HP  Re: Open Letter to HP  Re: Open Letter to HP G RE: OpenVMS, Volume Desktop OS (Re: Mark Gorham's Beer Bash in Reading) G Re: OpenVMS, Volume Desktop OS (Re: Mark Gorham's Beer Bash in Reading) < RE: Ordering Freeware? (was: re: OpenVMS FAQ due next week..> Re: Ordering Freeware? (was: re: OpenVMS FAQ due next week...)  Quick Poll - Fall HP Conferences" Re: rooted devices and /TRANS=CONC" Re: rooted devices and /TRANS=CONC" Re: rooted devices and /TRANS=CONC+ SCAREWARE (was New picture virus threatens) 2 Re: SSH v2 (was Re: OpenVMS, Volume Desktop OS...)1 Re: Sun is on the way out!  Only HP and IBM left! 1 Re: Sun is on the way out!  Only HP and IBM left! 1 Re: Sun is on the way out!  Only HP and IBM left! 1 Re: Sun is on the way out!  Only HP and IBM left! 1 RE: Sun is on the way out!  Only HP and IBM left! 1 Re: Sun is on the way out!  Only HP and IBM left! 1 Re: Sun is on the way out!  Only HP and IBM left! # Sun Setting, Not Rising, says eWeek  Sun/Slowaris future in doubt! ! Re: Sun/Slowaris future in doubt! ! RE: Sun/Slowaris future in doubt! ' Toshiba E-Station copier/printer issues  tried the temp PAK5 Re: US FDA ponders Slowaris over VMS ... what morons! 5 Re: US FDA ponders Slowaris over VMS ... what morons! 5 Re: US FDA ponders Slowaris over VMS ... what morons! 5 Re: US FDA ponders Slowaris over VMS ... what morons! D Re: VMS Groups and Privileges (was: Carly was here in ZKO yesterday)D Re: VMS Groups and Privileges (was: Carly was here in ZKO yesterday)* Re: Why is TCPIP$ROUTE.DAT in SYS$COMMON ?5 Will AIT-2 or AIT-3 media/changers work with OpenVMS? 1 Re: [Q]  VMS incremental backups vs. other brands   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2002 14:09:47 CDT  From: Keith <niemankj@SLU.EDU> Subject: "system-f-illiofunc" D Message-ID: <Pine.PMDF.4.21L.0206171405390.556180262-100000@SLU.EDU>   Hi!     = i am using richard levitte's fish program for secure copying. ? it works when i run it interactive from my terminal. when i run 2 it batch i get the following error in my log file.  . %SYSTEM-F-ILLIOFUNC, illegal I/O function code  E i fooled around with assigning/deassigning sys$input and sys$command  / to no avail, at least i didn't do it correctly. B since there is no access to the source code this makes it a little$ trickier. thanks for any pointers...   keith  314-977-2559 niemankj@slu.edu   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2002 16:38:56 -0500 & From: jlsue <jlsuexxxz@screaminet.com>& Subject: Re: "Tru64 and OpenVMS Times"8 Message-ID: <eklsguk3thel1b6pnqnnrc2qhl2ofed1jr@4ax.com>  3 On Wed, 12 Jun 2002 18:44:52 GMT, "Fred Kleinsorge" $ <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> wrote:   >>@ >>> "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com> wrote in message >  >>> > M >>> > That is a very good reason. I initially planned to call SKC SKHPS as in K >>> > Shannon Knows High Performance Systems. I was advised by a senior HPQ G >>> > executive to go with another name  because HPS does in fact equal  >Hewlett >>> > Packard Services.  >> > K >I am also told that in general you can't have a TLA that ends in an "S" as M >it is not distingushable from a plural form of a shorter name.  For example, F >I wanted to use XUIS as a product name, but was told that there was a0 >trademarked name XUI - so I ended up with UISX. >  >  >   D Now that's just dumb, imho.  If I want to make a TLA plural, I use aB lower-case "s".  That allows me to reference many TLAs with usefulD separation of the acronym from the "number".  The plural is NOT part of the acronym. 1 Not speaking for anyone, certainly not DEC/Compaq - (get rid of the xxxz in my address to e-mail)    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2002 21:36:33 -0400   From: John Santos <JOHN@egh.com>& Subject: Re: "Tru64 and OpenVMS Times"4 Message-ID: <1020617213534.385A-100000@Ives.egh.com>  ! On Mon, 17 Jun 2002, jlsue wrote:   5 > On Wed, 12 Jun 2002 18:44:52 GMT, "Fred Kleinsorge" & > <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> wrote: >  > >>B > >>> "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com> wrote in message > >  > >>> > O > >>> > That is a very good reason. I initially planned to call SKC SKHPS as in M > >>> > Shannon Knows High Performance Systems. I was advised by a senior HPQ I > >>> > executive to go with another name  because HPS does in fact equal 
 > >Hewlett > >>> > Packard Services.  > >> > > M > >I am also told that in general you can't have a TLA that ends in an "S" as O > >it is not distingushable from a plural form of a shorter name.  For example, H > >I wanted to use XUIS as a product name, but was told that there was a2 > >trademarked name XUI - so I ended up with UISX. > >  > >  > >  > F > Now that's just dumb, imho.  If I want to make a TLA plural, I use aD > lower-case "s".  That allows me to reference many TLAs with usefulF > separation of the acronym from the "number".  The plural is NOT part > of the acronym. 3 > Not speaking for anyone, certainly not DEC/Compaq / > (get rid of the xxxz in my address to e-mail)   B ARRRGGGGHHHHH!   Case-sensitive MLAs (Multi-Letter Acronyms).  :-)   --   John Santos  Evans Griffiths & Hart, Inc. 781-861-0670 ext 539   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 18 Jun 2002 01:54:00 GMT 1 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com> & Subject: Re: "Tru64 and OpenVMS Times"= Message-ID: <YowP8.81957$6m5.67317@rwcrnsc51.ops.asp.att.net>   - "John Santos" <JOHN@egh.com> wrote in message . news:1020617213534.385A-100000@Ives.egh.com...   > D > ARRRGGGGHHHHH!   Case-sensitive MLAs (Multi-Letter Acronyms).  :-)  ' Yup. Triple-DES encrypted, at that! ;-}    ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2002 20:34:13 GMT . From: peter@langstoeger.at (Peter LANGSTOEGER)I Subject: Re: "We stay with VMS because we have forgotten that we have it" 5 Message-ID: <9JrP8.273056$305.3948981@news.chello.at>   s In article <3D0E0929.E4612B33@mediasec.de>, Jan C. =?iso-8859-1?Q?Vorbr=FCggen?= <jvorbrueggen@mediasec.de> writes: J >> And when the time of this VAX h/w is coming (more likely this year thanL >> later) and you won't get spare parts any longer, then you HAVE TO discardM >> the whole system alltogether (like it or not) and replacing it with what ? K >> The application probably wasn't touched/improved for a decade, probably  M >> also won't run on OpenVMS Alpha (probably, because who did care so far ?)   > # >Charon-VAX will be their friend...   E I recently had a talk with such a guy, and use of Charon-VAX to drive I their billion dollar mfkt plant was not seen as appropriate (eg. cause of M the uptime problems of the host opsys). Maybe this will change, but currently L they are looking for a VAX from the used market to get spare parts for theirL hardware Q cancelled the maintenance contract recently (they are also locked
 at V5.5-2)  4 This I call a workaround for a dead-end situation...   --   Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER % Network and OpenVMS system specialist  E-mail  peter@langstoeger.atP A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm looking for (a) Network _and_ VMS Job(s)   ------------------------------    Date: 17 Jun 2002 15:41:06 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) I Subject: Re: "We stay with VMS because we have forgotten that we have it" 3 Message-ID: <MgEksB8XOrHq@eisner.encompasserve.org>   f In article <9JrP8.273056$305.3948981@news.chello.at>, peter@langstoeger.at (Peter LANGSTOEGER) writes:  G > I recently had a talk with such a guy, and use of Charon-VAX to drive K > their billion dollar mfkt plant was not seen as appropriate (eg. cause of ) > the uptime problems of the host opsys).   ? I thought Charon-VAX was offered on two host operating systems.   9 What is wrong with the uptime of contemporary Alpha VMS ?    ------------------------------   Date: 17 Jun 2002 20:26:42 GMT1 From: bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) I Subject: Re: "We stay with VMS because we have forgotten that we have it" , Message-ID: <aelgm2$12u7$1@info.cs.uofs.edu>  5 In article <SKEO8.249293$305.3479967@news.chello.at>, 1  peter@langstoeger.at (Peter LANGSTOEGER) writes:  |>  H |> Am I the only one, who doesn't get a good feeling when reading this ?I |> For me this is a dead system, because it wasn't improved for a decade. J |> And when the time of this VAX h/w is coming (more likely this year thanL |> later) and you won't get spare parts any longer, then you HAVE TO discardM |> the whole system alltogether (like it or not) and replacing it with what ? A |> The application probably wasn't touched/improved for a decade,   F Probably longer than that as he said it was an RSX application runningE under emulation. I'm surprised they didn't just stick with the PDP-11  in the first place.    bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2002 20:49:49 GMT . From: peter@langstoeger.at (Peter LANGSTOEGER)I Subject: Re: "We stay with VMS because we have forgotten that we have it" 5 Message-ID: <NXrP8.273179$305.3954386@news.chello.at>   c In article <MgEksB8XOrHq@eisner.encompasserve.org>, Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) writes: g >In article <9JrP8.273056$305.3948981@news.chello.at>, peter@langstoeger.at (Peter LANGSTOEGER) writes:  > H >> I recently had a talk with such a guy, and use of Charon-VAX to driveL >> their billion dollar mfkt plant was not seen as appropriate (eg. cause of* >> the uptime problems of the host opsys). > @ >I thought Charon-VAX was offered on two host operating systems. > : >What is wrong with the uptime of contemporary Alpha VMS ?  = I think, OpenVMS Alpha was considered now as a dead end also. D But maybe I did understand something wrong and it was alpha hardware" availability in a couple of years.> Hopefully, next time when/if I drink a beer with them again...   --   Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER % Network and OpenVMS system specialist  E-mail  peter@langstoeger.atP A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm looking for (a) Network _and_ VMS Job(s)   ------------------------------    Date: 17 Jun 2002 16:49:05 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) I Subject: Re: "We stay with VMS because we have forgotten that we have it" 3 Message-ID: <YiYrF38AGJ0S@eisner.encompasserve.org>   f In article <NXrP8.273179$305.3954386@news.chello.at>, peter@langstoeger.at (Peter LANGSTOEGER) writes:e > In article <MgEksB8XOrHq@eisner.encompasserve.org>, Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) writes: h >>In article <9JrP8.273056$305.3948981@news.chello.at>, peter@langstoeger.at (Peter LANGSTOEGER) writes: >>I >>> I recently had a talk with such a guy, and use of Charon-VAX to drive M >>> their billion dollar mfkt plant was not seen as appropriate (eg. cause of + >>> the uptime problems of the host opsys).  >>A >>I thought Charon-VAX was offered on two host operating systems.  >>; >>What is wrong with the uptime of contemporary Alpha VMS ?  > ? > I think, OpenVMS Alpha was considered now as a dead end also. F > But maybe I did understand something wrong and it was alpha hardware$ > availability in a couple of years.@ > Hopefully, next time when/if I drink a beer with them again...  K If he expects that Charon-VAX for Itanium would already have been released, F I think that is putting the cart before the horse.  Note how long 1620 emulators on MVS have survived.    ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2002 21:55:04 GMT 1 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com> 2 Subject: Re: A Proposal for All C.O.V. to Consider= Message-ID: <YUsP8.62568$R61.15582@rwcrnsc52.ops.asp.att.net>   C First thought is that we will need some seed money. Perhaps $25 per B "investor." I'd kick in that much just to help get things going...  . "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> wrote in messageB news:GAsP8.54078$831.18273@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com...' > A Proposal for All C.O.V. to Consider ' > *************************************  >  >  > The Thesis > --------------- L > Certainly for the past year, and in reality much longer than that, most ofD > us have been collectively less than pleased with the commitment to	 marketing " > of OpenVMS by Compaq and now HP. > F > We seem to be able to get some measure of response from HP recently, perhaps F > even more than Compaq has given, but even so it is less complete andF > forthright than we would like to hear. HP seems to be reticent aboutL > discussing their plans for OpenVMS in the kind of language that would giveI > the OpenVMS community comfort, though in fairness to them they may feel  that > they are being frank.  > F > We have a wide variety of concerns that we as a community would likeJ > addressed, and by addressed I mean that we would like to hear from Carly > about. >  >  >  >  > The Proposal > ------------------E > Let's band together (Encompass, LUG's, c.o.v.) and host our own web E > conference and invite Carly to join us for an hour to discuss where  OpenVMS G > is going, in her own words. But the key to the whole exercise is that  Carly K > personally participates. Stallard, Gorham, Marcello, et al. could join in  ifJ > they are available, but I for one wouldn't care to hear from Capellas or
 > Winkler. > F > I think that creating an 'event' such as this would carry additional weightL > to our arguments with HP about why a serious marketing effort is importantL > to the future of VMS, even more than the individual email and letters some' > have written to the executives at HP.  >e >T >4 >d > How Do We Do This  > ----------------------------L > If we as a group decide to do something like this, we need to have a smallL > group of c.o.v. participants/OpenVMS users with sufficient 'clout' with HPA > to extend the formal invitation to Carly on behalf of the groupi (Terry(??),tH > Encompass, some LUG's, some of the stock exchanges, major/not-so-majorK > corporate customers, gov't agencies, ISV's, large integrators (SAIC, CSC,sK > etc..., educational institutions). I'd expect that we could have at leastoA > 300 companies (with perhaps a total of 1200 decision-makers andi influencers)H > represented in the conference. It would be a marvelous opportunity for Carly"B > to reach out and speak with a lot of real customers for an hour. >cL > I know that this would represent some perceived risk on the part of HP andF > Carly in particular to agree to participate in a conference where HP didn'tL > control the agenda. But I also think that this is a golden opportunity forH > us to be proactive and for Carly to understand the strength of the VMS7 > market if they'd only give us some public commitment.  >c >  >a >o > Logistics. > ---------sL > From a strictly technical point of view, I have recently participated in aK > number of web-based audio-visual conferences hosted by www.placeware.com,m asI > part of a software beta I am participating in for a very large softwareoI > vendor. The Placeware conferencing seems to be a very good way to get ae lot J > of people together rather inexpensively for such purposes. I'm sure that: > there are other, just as capable services available too. >sI > The Placeware service (http://www.placeware.com/demos/demos.cfm) offerse alleJ > the audio-visual goodies one would expect, and just as importantly in myK > opinion, the services of a live moderator to maintain some order and flowo toH > the process. I think this would be useful to have in order to convince CarlySB > that her participation would not have the conference turn into a > free-for-all at her expense. >s >A >7 >2 > The Cost Details > ----------------------6 > The costs are approximately as follows (all in USD):: > $50 per connection/location in North America (toll-free); > $1500 per hour for moderation services (+some other bits)c? > $500 for a web deliverable audio/visual archive (.WMV format)t > I > The per connection cost is for a single connection so to minimize costsd youdH > can put a number of people from each firm participating in a boardroom withF > a PC connected to a large monitor/projector, and have a speakerphoneJ > available in the boardroom which all could share. Placeware can handle a/ > conference with up to 2500 phone connections.  >k< > There are toll-free services that can be made available inJ > Europe/Australia/elsewhere if sufficient numbers of participants warrant it,eI > but regular long-distance dial-in for the audio portion is available. InI > suspect that most of the regular non-North American c.o.v. participantsN forCK > the most part have access to discounted long-distance services from theirRK > countries, so it could be a user pay for these companies (sorry to take a L > decidedly North American view on this, but it simplifies things just a bit > for discussion purposes).  > K > So to work through a hypothetical conference of 200 connections where the L > North American users are calling toll-free and those outside North America4 > are paying their own telephone connection, we get: > " > Connections: 200 x $50 = $10,000" > Moderator/tech support   $ 1,500 > .WMV Archive:   $   500w >s" > Approx. Gross Total      $12,000 >t" > Per 'firm' = 12,000/200= $    60 > L > It's a lot cheaper than a plane ticket and hotel, or even the taxi ride toJ > the airport. And the cost per participant drops when you have 4-5 people inK > the room taking part. It would cost somewhat more if toll-free links wereoC > added outside of North America. Sorry, I don't have a hard figure K > available - a WAG might be double the price outside of North America, buta atE > that price you'd probably be better off calling directly yourself).E >T >  >$ > Cost Sharing > ------------L > Somebody has to go 'on-the-hook' to pay the bill for a web conference suchH > as this, ie. Placeware wants one place to send the invoice to. To that end,F > perhaps one c.o.v. participant who might have a Visa/Mastercard/AmexF > merchant account could put the effort into creating a secure on-line payment8G > and registration process into place to collect funds from those of usaI > interested in participating, and then pay Placeware (or whichever other.J > service) for the conference. Sorry guys, I don't have a merchant Visa et al.I > account to do this.t > L > I know that this would require some discussion with your own management toG > do something like this and it would also have to be able to deal witheG > processing refunds (less some small handling/administrative amount toi offsetL > any Visa/Mastercard chargebacks) in the event that the conference can't be > done (Carly declines, etc..).  >0L > Such a site should also be capable of collecting the names & titles of allC > those from an organization that would be participating in the webWH > conference, the list of which could be presented to HP - I wouldn't beI > surprised if it would represent better intelligence about their OpenVMSn) > customers than they currently have now.g >  >s > L > Maybe I'm being too naive to think that we could get Carly to join us, butJ > if there were sufficient numbers of large corporations involved, and youI > could get your CIO/CTO/CFO/COO/CEO to sit in for an hour, then maybe wesK > could get HP/Carly to join us. Of course the flip side to this is that if K > she declines to participate, we all get to draw our own conclusions aboutF > her commitment to OpenVMS. >ID > The big question is: Is it better for her to standup in front of a	 skepticaleI > audience and make her case, or to be judged in absentia. From what I've  seenJ > of her, I'd bet she'd come to our party. Either way, we come away with a) > better sense of what to expect from HP.m >e >u > Any thoughts?l >  >    ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2002 21:33:26 GMT # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>t. Subject: A Proposal for All C.O.V. to ConsiderH Message-ID: <GAsP8.54078$831.18273@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>  % A Proposal for All C.O.V. to Considere% *************************************e    
 The Thesis ---------------,J Certainly for the past year, and in reality much longer than that, most ofL us have been collectively less than pleased with the commitment to marketing  of OpenVMS by Compaq and now HP.  L We seem to be able to get some measure of response from HP recently, perhapsD even more than Compaq has given, but even so it is less complete andD forthright than we would like to hear. HP seems to be reticent aboutJ discussing their plans for OpenVMS in the kind of language that would giveL the OpenVMS community comfort, though in fairness to them they may feel that they are being frank.s  D We have a wide variety of concerns that we as a community would likeH addressed, and by addressed I mean that we would like to hear from Carly about.         The Proposal ------------------C Let's band together (Encompass, LUG's, c.o.v.) and host our own web K conference and invite Carly to join us for an hour to discuss where OpenVMSnK is going, in her own words. But the key to the whole exercise is that CarlylL personally participates. Stallard, Gorham, Marcello, et al. could join in ifH they are available, but I for one wouldn't care to hear from Capellas or Winkler.  K I think that creating an 'event' such as this would carry additional weightiJ to our arguments with HP about why a serious marketing effort is importantJ to the future of VMS, even more than the individual email and letters some% have written to the executives at HP.p         How Do We Do ThisY ----------------------------J If we as a group decide to do something like this, we need to have a smallJ group of c.o.v. participants/OpenVMS users with sufficient 'clout' with HPK to extend the formal invitation to Carly on behalf of the group (Terry(??),tF Encompass, some LUG's, some of the stock exchanges, major/not-so-majorI corporate customers, gov't agencies, ISV's, large integrators (SAIC, CSC,sI etc..., educational institutions). I'd expect that we could have at least8L 300 companies (with perhaps a total of 1200 decision-makers and influencers)L represented in the conference. It would be a marvelous opportunity for Carly@ to reach out and speak with a lot of real customers for an hour.  J I know that this would represent some perceived risk on the part of HP andK Carly in particular to agree to participate in a conference where HP didn't J control the agenda. But I also think that this is a golden opportunity forF us to be proactive and for Carly to understand the strength of the VMS5 market if they'd only give us some public commitment.r        	 Logisticst	 ---------lJ From a strictly technical point of view, I have recently participated in aL number of web-based audio-visual conferences hosted by www.placeware.com, asG part of a software beta I am participating in for a very large softwarerK vendor. The Placeware conferencing seems to be a very good way to get a lotdH of people together rather inexpensively for such purposes. I'm sure that8 there are other, just as capable services available too.  K The Placeware service (http://www.placeware.com/demos/demos.cfm) offers alleH the audio-visual goodies one would expect, and just as importantly in myL opinion, the services of a live moderator to maintain some order and flow toL the process. I think this would be useful to have in order to convince Carly@ that her participation would not have the conference turn into a free-for-all at her expense.         The Cost Details ----------------------4 The costs are approximately as follows (all in USD):8 $50 per connection/location in North America (toll-free)9 $1500 per hour for moderation services (+some other bits) = $500 for a web deliverable audio/visual archive (.WMV format)   K The per connection cost is for a single connection so to minimize costs you K can put a number of people from each firm participating in a boardroom with D a PC connected to a large monitor/projector, and have a speakerphoneH available in the boardroom which all could share. Placeware can handle a- conference with up to 2500 phone connections.t  : There are toll-free services that can be made available inL Europe/Australia/elsewhere if sufficient numbers of participants warrant it,G but regular long-distance dial-in for the audio portion is available. I K suspect that most of the regular non-North American c.o.v. participants foruI the most part have access to discounted long-distance services from theiriI countries, so it could be a user pay for these companies (sorry to take atJ decidedly North American view on this, but it simplifies things just a bit for discussion purposes).i  I So to work through a hypothetical conference of 200 connections where theaJ North American users are calling toll-free and those outside North America2 are paying their own telephone connection, we get:    Connections: 200 x $50 = $10,000  Moderator/tech support   $ 1,500 .WMV Archive:   $   500c    Approx. Gross Total      $12,000    Per 'firm' = 12,000/200= $    60  J It's a lot cheaper than a plane ticket and hotel, or even the taxi ride toK the airport. And the cost per participant drops when you have 4-5 people in-I the room taking part. It would cost somewhat more if toll-free links wereeA added outside of North America. Sorry, I don't have a hard figure L available - a WAG might be double the price outside of North America, but atC that price you'd probably be better off calling directly yourself).g       Cost Sharing ------------J Somebody has to go 'on-the-hook' to pay the bill for a web conference suchK as this, ie. Placeware wants one place to send the invoice to. To that end,uD perhaps one c.o.v. participant who might have a Visa/Mastercard/AmexL merchant account could put the effort into creating a secure on-line paymentE and registration process into place to collect funds from those of ustG interested in participating, and then pay Placeware (or whichever otherSL service) for the conference. Sorry guys, I don't have a merchant Visa et al. account to do this.m  J I know that this would require some discussion with your own management toE do something like this and it would also have to be able to deal witheL processing refunds (less some small handling/administrative amount to offsetJ any Visa/Mastercard chargebacks) in the event that the conference can't be done (Carly declines, etc..).-  J Such a site should also be capable of collecting the names & titles of allA those from an organization that would be participating in the webuF conference, the list of which could be presented to HP - I wouldn't beG surprised if it would represent better intelligence about their OpenVMSa' customers than they currently have now.E      J Maybe I'm being too naive to think that we could get Carly to join us, butH if there were sufficient numbers of large corporations involved, and youG could get your CIO/CTO/CFO/COO/CEO to sit in for an hour, then maybe we I could get HP/Carly to join us. Of course the flip side to this is that if I she declines to participate, we all get to draw our own conclusions about  her commitment to OpenVMS.  L The big question is: Is it better for her to standup in front of a skepticalL audience and make her case, or to be judged in absentia. From what I've seenH of her, I'd bet she'd come to our party. Either way, we come away with a' better sense of what to expect from HP.d    
 Any thoughts?a   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2002 22:54:23 -0400d% From: "John Vottero" <John@mvpsi.com> 2 Subject: Re: A Proposal for All C.O.V. to Consider/ Message-ID: <ugt87bieo4ue13@news.supernews.com>a  I There is no way that I'm going to pay anything to get HP to tell me about  it's products!  I While I would love to see this happen, it should be HP asking customer tooG participate, not the other way around.  And it should be HP footing theo bill.   . "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> wrote in messageB news:GAsP8.54078$831.18273@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com...' > A Proposal for All C.O.V. to Consider ' > *************************************. >  >h > The Thesis > ---------------nL > Certainly for the past year, and in reality much longer than that, most ofD > us have been collectively less than pleased with the commitment to	 marketing " > of OpenVMS by Compaq and now HP. >-F > We seem to be able to get some measure of response from HP recently, perhaps F > even more than Compaq has given, but even so it is less complete andF > forthright than we would like to hear. HP seems to be reticent aboutL > discussing their plans for OpenVMS in the kind of language that would giveI > the OpenVMS community comfort, though in fairness to them they may feelw that > they are being frank.b >eF > We have a wide variety of concerns that we as a community would likeJ > addressed, and by addressed I mean that we would like to hear from Carly > about. >f >  >h >  > The Proposal > ------------------E > Let's band together (Encompass, LUG's, c.o.v.) and host our own websE > conference and invite Carly to join us for an hour to discuss whereb OpenVMS G > is going, in her own words. But the key to the whole exercise is thatE CarlysK > personally participates. Stallard, Gorham, Marcello, et al. could join in  ifJ > they are available, but I for one wouldn't care to hear from Capellas or
 > Winkler. >oF > I think that creating an 'event' such as this would carry additional weightL > to our arguments with HP about why a serious marketing effort is importantL > to the future of VMS, even more than the individual email and letters some' > have written to the executives at HP.e >t >  >o >a > How Do We Do Thist > ----------------------------L > If we as a group decide to do something like this, we need to have a smallL > group of c.o.v. participants/OpenVMS users with sufficient 'clout' with HPA > to extend the formal invitation to Carly on behalf of the groupd (Terry(??),oH > Encompass, some LUG's, some of the stock exchanges, major/not-so-majorK > corporate customers, gov't agencies, ISV's, large integrators (SAIC, CSC,tK > etc..., educational institutions). I'd expect that we could have at leastsA > 300 companies (with perhaps a total of 1200 decision-makers andr influencers)H > represented in the conference. It would be a marvelous opportunity for CarlyIB > to reach out and speak with a lot of real customers for an hour. > L > I know that this would represent some perceived risk on the part of HP andF > Carly in particular to agree to participate in a conference where HP didn'tL > control the agenda. But I also think that this is a golden opportunity forH > us to be proactive and for Carly to understand the strength of the VMS7 > market if they'd only give us some public commitment.t >  >  >n >  > Logisticsi > ---------iL > From a strictly technical point of view, I have recently participated in aK > number of web-based audio-visual conferences hosted by www.placeware.com,t asI > part of a software beta I am participating in for a very large softwarenI > vendor. The Placeware conferencing seems to be a very good way to get ai lotcJ > of people together rather inexpensively for such purposes. I'm sure that: > there are other, just as capable services available too. >cI > The Placeware service (http://www.placeware.com/demos/demos.cfm) offers  allhJ > the audio-visual goodies one would expect, and just as importantly in myK > opinion, the services of a live moderator to maintain some order and flow/ toH > the process. I think this would be useful to have in order to convince CarlydB > that her participation would not have the conference turn into a > free-for-all at her expense. >d >a >f >o > The Cost Details > ----------------------6 > The costs are approximately as follows (all in USD):: > $50 per connection/location in North America (toll-free); > $1500 per hour for moderation services (+some other bits) ? > $500 for a web deliverable audio/visual archive (.WMV format)s >lI > The per connection cost is for a single connection so to minimize costs1 youeH > can put a number of people from each firm participating in a boardroom withF > a PC connected to a large monitor/projector, and have a speakerphoneJ > available in the boardroom which all could share. Placeware can handle a/ > conference with up to 2500 phone connections.  >h< > There are toll-free services that can be made available inJ > Europe/Australia/elsewhere if sufficient numbers of participants warrant it,dI > but regular long-distance dial-in for the audio portion is available. IlI > suspect that most of the regular non-North American c.o.v. participantsi forfK > the most part have access to discounted long-distance services from theirlK > countries, so it could be a user pay for these companies (sorry to take arL > decidedly North American view on this, but it simplifies things just a bit > for discussion purposes).v >sK > So to work through a hypothetical conference of 200 connections where therL > North American users are calling toll-free and those outside North America4 > are paying their own telephone connection, we get: >o" > Connections: 200 x $50 = $10,000" > Moderator/tech support   $ 1,500 > .WMV Archive:   $   500i >t" > Approx. Gross Total      $12,000 >a" > Per 'firm' = 12,000/200= $    60 >eL > It's a lot cheaper than a plane ticket and hotel, or even the taxi ride toJ > the airport. And the cost per participant drops when you have 4-5 people inK > the room taking part. It would cost somewhat more if toll-free links werenC > added outside of North America. Sorry, I don't have a hard figurecK > available - a WAG might be double the price outside of North America, butt atE > that price you'd probably be better off calling directly yourself).N >h >e >a > Cost Sharing > ------------L > Somebody has to go 'on-the-hook' to pay the bill for a web conference suchH > as this, ie. Placeware wants one place to send the invoice to. To that end,F > perhaps one c.o.v. participant who might have a Visa/Mastercard/AmexF > merchant account could put the effort into creating a secure on-line paymentsG > and registration process into place to collect funds from those of usrI > interested in participating, and then pay Placeware (or whichever othertJ > service) for the conference. Sorry guys, I don't have a merchant Visa et al.i > account to do this.n >fL > I know that this would require some discussion with your own management toG > do something like this and it would also have to be able to deal with G > processing refunds (less some small handling/administrative amount tou offsetL > any Visa/Mastercard chargebacks) in the event that the conference can't be > done (Carly declines, etc..).e >wL > Such a site should also be capable of collecting the names & titles of allC > those from an organization that would be participating in the webnH > conference, the list of which could be presented to HP - I wouldn't beI > surprised if it would represent better intelligence about their OpenVMS ) > customers than they currently have now.  >  >W > L > Maybe I'm being too naive to think that we could get Carly to join us, butJ > if there were sufficient numbers of large corporations involved, and youI > could get your CIO/CTO/CFO/COO/CEO to sit in for an hour, then maybe wevK > could get HP/Carly to join us. Of course the flip side to this is that iftK > she declines to participate, we all get to draw our own conclusions aboutO > her commitment to OpenVMS. >hD > The big question is: Is it better for her to standup in front of a	 skeptical I > audience and make her case, or to be judged in absentia. From what I'vei seenJ > of her, I'd bet she'd come to our party. Either way, we come away with a) > better sense of what to expect from HP.e >  >i > Any thoughts?  >e >r   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2002 18:40:13 +0100o+ From: Ray Swadling <ray@rgscomputing.co.uk>hA Subject: Advanced Server V7.3 - "limit on concurrent connections"h8 Message-ID: <457sguse41qb53f5v6asqlbplu39ddms25@4ax.com>   Hi,u  F I have Advanced Server V7.3 running on a DS20. I have currently got anD open temp license PAK pending the arrival of some more PAKs to allow increased number of users.  B I have several users/shares set up, but I am experiencing an errorA when more than 3 users on different clients try to connect to theoA server to access a share. I don't know if the problem is with theh- share or the user account, but the error is:-e  
 "A connectionrB to the server could not be made because the limit on the number of: concurrent connections for this account has been reached."  F I have set the share to unlimited connections and have trawled throughB the documentation and help to try to find any other settings which. would control/limit the number of connections.? I thought it was license related  (hence the temp PAK) but thatn doesn't seem to help.....h  C I seem to vaguely recall some problem when using a mix of temp/realeE license PAKs. I intend to disable all the valid PAKs tomorrow and seew8 if having just the temp unlimited one cures the problem.  ? Users with different client/usernames get the error so it looks) share-related not user account.e  % Can anyone shed any light on this??? t   VMS 7.2-1/Advanced Server V7.3   Ray.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2002 15:00:57 -0500r1 From: "Dave Gudewicz" <david.gudewicz@abbott.com> E Subject: Re: Advanced Server V7.3 - "limit on concurrent connections"m1 Message-ID: <aelf8p$qjd$1@fizban.pprd.abbott.com>'  E What does the configuration manager tell you about maximum concurrent  signons?  
 $admin/confige   -- Dave...i  3 More than one cigar at a time is excessive smoking.v -----Mark Twaine  8 "Ray Swadling" <ray@rgscomputing.co.uk> wrote in message2 news:457sguse41qb53f5v6asqlbplu39ddms25@4ax.com... > Hi,a >oH > I have Advanced Server V7.3 running on a DS20. I have currently got anF > open temp license PAK pending the arrival of some more PAKs to allow > increased number of users. >oD > I have several users/shares set up, but I am experiencing an errorC > when more than 3 users on different clients try to connect to thecC > server to access a share. I don't know if the problem is with thet/ > share or the user account, but the error is:-  >  > "A connectioneD > to the server could not be made because the limit on the number of< > concurrent connections for this account has been reached." >oH > I have set the share to unlimited connections and have trawled throughD > the documentation and help to try to find any other settings which0 > would control/limit the number of connections.A > I thought it was license related  (hence the temp PAK) but that  > doesn't seem to help.....f > E > I seem to vaguely recall some problem when using a mix of temp/real G > license PAKs. I intend to disable all the valid PAKs tomorrow and seet: > if having just the temp unlimited one cures the problem. >eA > Users with different client/usernames get the error so it looksc! > share-related not user account.  >t& > Can anyone shed any light on this??? >o  > VMS 7.2-1/Advanced Server V7.3 >  > Ray. >o   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2002 15:14:22 -0500t1 From: "Dave Gudewicz" <david.gudewicz@abbott.com> E Subject: Re: Advanced Server V7.3 - "limit on concurrent connections"r1 Message-ID: <aelg1u$qmi$1@fizban.pprd.abbott.com>)  # Also what does $PWLICENSE tell you.o  0 pwlic*ense == $sys$system:pwrk$lr_show_usage.exe   -- Dave...e  3 More than one cigar at a time is excessive smoking.o -----Mark Twaint  < "Dave Gudewicz" <david.gudewicz@abbott.com> wrote in message+ news:aelf8p$qjd$1@fizban.pprd.abbott.com...rG > What does the configuration manager tell you about maximum concurrent 
 > signons? >- > $admin/config  >  > --	 > Dave...f >o5 > More than one cigar at a time is excessive smoking.A > -----Mark Twain  >0: > "Ray Swadling" <ray@rgscomputing.co.uk> wrote in message4 > news:457sguse41qb53f5v6asqlbplu39ddms25@4ax.com... > > Hi,h > > J > > I have Advanced Server V7.3 running on a DS20. I have currently got anH > > open temp license PAK pending the arrival of some more PAKs to allow > > increased number of users. > >cF > > I have several users/shares set up, but I am experiencing an errorE > > when more than 3 users on different clients try to connect to thetE > > server to access a share. I don't know if the problem is with theu1 > > share or the user account, but the error is:-a > >p > > "A connectionuF > > to the server could not be made because the limit on the number of> > > concurrent connections for this account has been reached." > >tJ > > I have set the share to unlimited connections and have trawled throughF > > the documentation and help to try to find any other settings which2 > > would control/limit the number of connections.C > > I thought it was license related  (hence the temp PAK) but thatt > > doesn't seem to help.....o > >nG > > I seem to vaguely recall some problem when using a mix of temp/realrI > > license PAKs. I intend to disable all the valid PAKs tomorrow and seeo< > > if having just the temp unlimited one cures the problem. > >oC > > Users with different client/usernames get the error so it looks2# > > share-related not user account.  > > ( > > Can anyone shed any light on this??? > >l" > > VMS 7.2-1/Advanced Server V7.3 > >A > > Ray. > >  >t >p   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2002 21:31:07 +0100 + From: Ray Swadling <ray@rgscomputing.co.uk> E Subject: Re: Advanced Server V7.3 - "limit on concurrent connections" 8 Message-ID: <o7hsgugo8tchd3m8uijk62t50si0sk2hvn@4ax.com>  3 On Mon, 17 Jun 2002 15:00:57 -0500, "Dave Gudewicz"n" <david.gudewicz@abbott.com> wrote:  F >What does the configuration manager tell you about maximum concurrent	 >signons?e >c >$admin/config     50 concurrent/20 clients.t   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2002 21:51:06 +0100g+ From: Ray Swadling <ray@rgscomputing.co.uk>uE Subject: Re: Advanced Server V7.3 - "limit on concurrent connections"i8 Message-ID: <olisgu8aemb09jkljs89g1taajd55asnu3@4ax.com>  3 On Mon, 17 Jun 2002 15:14:22 -0500, "Dave Gudewicz"r" <david.gudewicz@abbott.com> wrote:  $ >Also what does $PWLICENSE tell you. > 1 >pwlic*ense == $sys$system:pwrk$lr_show_usage.exew    # Total 5	Cluster Use: 0	Available: 5w  B I tried the temp PAK and it doesn't work......If I disable all theA legit PAKs and then enable just the temp one, I get zero licensesa? available and a message telling me I need a PWLMxxxCA07.03 as ae minimum.  D So I now am pretty sure its just a licensing problem as I'm using upD my 5 licenses. I just need to talk to HPAQ tomorrow to get a working@ temp PAK and I should be OK. It'll take about a month to get theE purchase order through our system here for the 10 extra license PAKs.u     Thanks for your help Dave....r     Ray.   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2002 21:10:35 GMTn( From: "Mark E. Levy" <mlevy70@attbi.com>E Subject: Re: Advanced Server V7.3 - "limit on concurrent connections"n= Message-ID: <ffsP8.62383$R61.16030@rwcrnsc52.ops.asp.att.net>C  H You may have to combine all of your Pathworks licenses. To do this, list+ each one and get the authorization numbers:i  
 lic list/fulle   Then do this for each:  * lic mod <license>/auth=<each auth>/combine   Then:e   lic unload <license> lic load <license>  $ Restart Pathworks, and try it again.  	 Mark Levyu SMAe    8 "Ray Swadling" <ray@rgscomputing.co.uk> wrote in message2 news:457sguse41qb53f5v6asqlbplu39ddms25@4ax.com... > Hi,, > H > I have Advanced Server V7.3 running on a DS20. I have currently got anF > open temp license PAK pending the arrival of some more PAKs to allow > increased number of users. >oD > I have several users/shares set up, but I am experiencing an errorC > when more than 3 users on different clients try to connect to thetC > server to access a share. I don't know if the problem is with the!/ > share or the user account, but the error is:-u >b > "A connectionmD > to the server could not be made because the limit on the number of< > concurrent connections for this account has been reached." >aH > I have set the share to unlimited connections and have trawled throughD > the documentation and help to try to find any other settings which0 > would control/limit the number of connections.A > I thought it was license related  (hence the temp PAK) but thatt > doesn't seem to help.....c >eE > I seem to vaguely recall some problem when using a mix of temp/realVG > license PAKs. I intend to disable all the valid PAKs tomorrow and see : > if having just the temp unlimited one cures the problem. >aA > Users with different client/usernames get the error so it looksw! > share-related not user account.e >e& > Can anyone shed any light on this??? >V  > VMS 7.2-1/Advanced Server V7.3 >  > Ray. >    ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2002 21:05:24 GMTt- From: goathunter@goatley.com (Hunter Goatley)e Subject: ANN: Updated JUMP0 Message-ID: <3d0e4dd7.25790354@news.process.com>  ; JUMP V4.1 has been released by its author, Jonathan Ridler.   H JUMP allows a user to login exactly  as another user without a password.H It  also  allows a more restricted (non-exact) impersonation of  anotherF user. Use of JUMP  is  restricted  to  specific  categories  of users:E Systems Programmers, Operators and any specifically authorised users.e  G You can find out more about JUMP by downloading the JUMP.ZIP file from:f   http://www.process.com/openvms/n  4 ftp://ftp.process.com/vms-freeware/fileserv/jump.zip9 http://vms.process.com/ftp/vms-freeware/fileserv/jump.zipr0 ftp://ftp.tmk.com/vms-freeware/fileserv/jump.zip5 http://www.tmk.com/ftp/vms-freeware/fileserv/jump.zipt  . and on the other mirrors in the next 24 hours.   Hunter ------9 Hunter Goatley, Process Software, http://www.process.com/a8 goathunter@goatley.com    http://www.goatley.com/hunter/< New Robert R. McCammon site: http://www.RobertRMcCammon.com/   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2002 17:46:00 -0400'1 From: Michael Austin <maustin@firstdbasource.com>o Subject: Re: ANN: Updated JUMP2 Message-ID: <3D0E5898.799936E4@firstdbasource.com>   Hunter Goatley wrote:- > = > JUMP V4.1 has been released by its author, Jonathan Ridler.r > J > JUMP allows a user to login exactly  as another user without a password.J > It  also  allows a more restricted (non-exact) impersonation of  anotherH > user. Use of JUMP  is  restricted  to  specific  categories  of users:G > Systems Programmers, Operators and any specifically authorised users.a > I > You can find out more about JUMP by downloading the JUMP.ZIP file from:  > ! > http://www.process.com/openvms/p > 6 > ftp://ftp.process.com/vms-freeware/fileserv/jump.zip; > http://vms.process.com/ftp/vms-freeware/fileserv/jump.zip 2 > ftp://ftp.tmk.com/vms-freeware/fileserv/jump.zip7 > http://www.tmk.com/ftp/vms-freeware/fileserv/jump.zip  > 0 > and on the other mirrors in the next 24 hours. >  > Hunter > ------; > Hunter Goatley, Process Software, http://www.process.com/ : > goathunter@goatley.com    http://www.goatley.com/hunter/> > New Robert R. McCammon site: http://www.RobertRMcCammon.com/  D Just curious, but what is the difference in this vs. SETUSER? (AlphaF version changes all logicals including sys$login and by resetting yourG privs (set proc/priv) to the users privs can "impersonate" that user ast well.r  A Really nice when trying to find out why something works with yourwG account and not user abc.  Just make sure you use the command procedurehH to link it or use the exact commands in link.com -- the result of havingH undefined symbols will cause the system to crash in Kernel mode -- not a very pleasant experience...t   -- l Regards,  7 Michael Austin            Registered Linux User #261163a7 First DBA Source, Inc.    http://www.firstdbasource.comr Sr. Consultant 704-947-1089 (Office)  704-236-4377 (Mobile)-   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2002 14:05:50 -0400 ( From: David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>< Subject: Re: Another analyst says VMS port won't be finished, Message-ID: <3D0E24FE.6090708@tsoft-inc.com>   Terry C. Shannon wrote:   @ > "Bill Gunshannon" <bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu> wrote in message' > news:aekpnf$o6f$1@info.cs.uofs.edu...u > / >>In article <eQJO8.41670$nZ3.11032@rwcrnsc53>,d6 >> "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com> writes: >>|>L >>|> There of course is plenty of room for HPQ to stop handing money over to >> > GG.a > K >>|> If HPQ is into S&M, there are cheaper ways to be abused than to retaine >> > a GG > " >>|> analyst to perform the abuse. >>D >>Unless, of course, GG is doing exactly what HPQ wants them to do!! >> > L > Not bloodly likely. I suspect that HPQ would like to be treated in a fair,L > unbiased manner. Fortunately there are market research firms out there who$ > conduct themselves in that manner.    > Don't know if HP is subscribing to any of the Gartner Garbage.  K In the history of network TV, there have been few recantations of anything iP presented as 'news' by the networks, even though there have been numerous false K hatchet jobs done on many entities.   One notable exception was the recent  J report of GM truck gas tanks exploding upon a collision, and when the NBC O network filming crew couldn't reproduce the alledged explosion, supplied their 0L own explosives.  Even with slow motion viewing of the film showing the tank Q exploding prior to the collision, I doubt that the network would have backed off aG the story due to complaints or legal action.  That's just how they are.h  P However, GM pulling multi-millions of advertising sent a shock wave through NBC L corporate offices, and first ammendment rights be damned, there was instant  apologies and retractions.  P Should HP have any dealings with Gartner, they should learn from the GM example.   Dave   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2002 20:15:23 +0100i, From: Chris Quayle <lightwork@aerosys.co.uk>< Subject: Re: Another analyst says VMS port won't be finished- Message-ID: <3D0E354B.C1C1A343@aerosys.co.uk>.   John Smith wrote:p > @ > "Bill Gunshannon" <bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu> wrote in message' > news:aekpnf$o6f$1@info.cs.uofs.edu...m > > F > > Unless, of course, GG is doing exactly what HPQ wants them to do!! > J > So GG really controls the Board of Directors, or so it would seem.   ;-)    E Sounds like the tail wagging the dog to me. Question is, is the dog at1 thoroughbred, poodle or just plain old mongrel ?.t   Chrise   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2002 19:01:08 -0400r. From: "Jeffrey Cameron" <bubbapig@hotmail.com>2 Subject: Another C and PL/I question - Descriptors9 Message-ID: <XStP8.1484$Rf7.529909@news20.bellglobal.com>m  I OK ... yet ANOTHER question about mixing these two in the Common Languagea/ Environment, a couple of questions actually ...   K Please bear in mind I have NO CHOICE but to mix these two languages, its mylK project but not my idea ... I would much prefer to do it in one language orp the other ;)  K 1. My C++ modules must interact with certain PL/I code and quite often thse'F PL/I modules either return or take as a parameter a bit (usually as an& unaligned bit string), for example ...  2 /***************** PL/I CODE ********************/7 get_filename: proc (indx, in_temparg) returns (bit(1));e   dcl in_temparg bit(1); dcl indx fixed bin(15);v   /* ... snip ... */   end get_filename;O    L But how do I declare this in C so that it knows to pass in and return a bit,L there are obviously no atomic data types for this operation in C/C++. I haveJ found a lot of litaerature on passing by descriptor and have tried passingK in the address of an unaligned bit string descriptor to the PL/I program toi no avail. e.g.:a  2 /***************** C CODE ***********************/= extern "C" short get_filename(short *, dsc$descriptor_ubs *);e  1 /* I have also tried without descriptors by using 0 extern "C" short get_filename(short *, short *);
 to no avail*/-   short shortval = 1;a short indxval = 2;   struct dsc$descriptor_ubs desc;g  5 desc.dsc$a_base = reinterpret_cast<char*>(&shortval); H desc.dsc$l_pos = 0L;                             /* not sure about this,G cant remember if its little or big endian, someone help me out please*/D  L /* Yes there are three other fields in the struct but I dont have the fields. handy but I fill them correctly trust me ;) */  * short res = get_filename(&indxval, &desc);  > NOTE: This is just a basic skeleto of larger code of coruse */  L This code produces an error in the PL/I code when trying to access the valueG of in_temparg. an access violation, when I check the symbol it says thet5 address is complex and is an incredibly large number.   ? ANY suggestions as to how to pass or recognize these arguments?r  D 2. I thought that the calling standard had a standard way of passingJ arguments. Going from left to right the arguments were passed in R16 - R22I respectively. However in the code I detailed above the PL/I seems to havee  the reverse of the C convention:  K The first parameter gets passed into R16 and the second into R17 as normal,nJ but the first argument (indx) actually has the value of R17 and the secondK (in_temparg) has the value in R16 (well actually  a very bizarre value, buteG the right address does get passed in). Is there a particular reason forhJ this? It would be nice to know if I am going to encounter this any more :)  $ Thanks in advance for any answers :)   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2002 18:09:27 GMTr+ From: "Rick Barry" <barry@star.zko.dec.com>t& Subject: Re: Apache 2.0 and Tomcat 4.01 Message-ID: <rBpP8.20$UF.253034@news.cpqcorp.net>   D Tomcat 3.3 and 4.0 are planned for late Q3 or early Q4 of this year.  2 Apache 2.0 is planned for the second half of 2003.  
 Rick Barry) Compaq Secure Web Server Development Teama OpenVMS Systems Software Group Hewlett Packard Companya
 Nashua, NH  . "Dan Allen" <dallen@nist.gov> wrote in message4 news:NEBBIALHDHJMJINPGMOAIELBEMAA.dallen@nist.gov... >aJ > The classpath setup in 4.0.3 is much different than that in 3.x but I'veJ > had no problem getting it to work. Actually behaves like the doc's (???)J > say it should with regard to jar files which 3.0 most definitly did not! >nK > The only problem I've had is with the auto-configuration of the IIS ISAPIhL > plugin which generates bogus registry settings if you are using the latest* > version of the plugin (wrong file name). >  > Danc >e > > -----Original Message-----5 > > From: James Gessling [mailto:jgessling@yahoo.com]e' > > Sent: Monday, June 17, 2002 9:34 AMr > > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Coms* > > Subject: Re: Apache 2.0 and Tomcat 4.0 > >r > > K > > I wouldn't be in too much of a hurry for Tomcat  4.  I downloaded 4.0.3  onto > > a Linux boxrI > > and it just plain didn't work.  Problems finding and loading classes.b This > > version was billedK > > as the "stable" release.  4.0.4(beta 3) worked better for me, but it isp > > still beta.  > >  > > Jimt > >a > >l< > > "Marty Kuhrt" <kuhrt@encompasserve.org> wrote in message1 > > news:iMMT0Z8yn6of@eisner.encompasserve.org...dK > > > Anyone have an idea when Apache 2.0 (CSWS) and Tomcat 4.0 (CSWS_JAVA)r  > > > will be available for VMS? > >i > >n > >?   ------------------------------    Date: 17 Jun 2002 15:51:44 -0600+ From: kuhrt@encompasserve.org (Marty Kuhrt)2& Subject: Re: Apache 2.0 and Tomcat 4.03 Message-ID: <dGMMDbAUPRzo@eisner.encompasserve.org>e  < Thanks.  The reason I asked is that there is a project being> deployed on W2K here that is using those versions.  If I couldA just drop the various bits into place on a VMS box, I could quiet-; some of the "but we don't have VMS developers" naysayers.  i  # Write anywhere, deploy on the best.z  _ In article <rBpP8.20$UF.253034@news.cpqcorp.net>, "Rick Barry" <barry@star.zko.dec.com> writes:tF > Tomcat 3.3 and 4.0 are planned for late Q3 or early Q4 of this year. > 4 > Apache 2.0 is planned for the second half of 2003. >  > Rick Barry+ > Compaq Secure Web Server Development Teamr  > OpenVMS Systems Software Group > Hewlett Packard Company  > Nashua, NH > 0 > "Dan Allen" <dallen@nist.gov> wrote in message6 > news:NEBBIALHDHJMJINPGMOAIELBEMAA.dallen@nist.gov... >>K >> The classpath setup in 4.0.3 is much different than that in 3.x but I'vefK >> had no problem getting it to work. Actually behaves like the doc's (???)vK >> say it should with regard to jar files which 3.0 most definitly did not!3 >>L >> The only problem I've had is with the auto-configuration of the IIS ISAPIM >> plugin which generates bogus registry settings if you are using the lateste+ >> version of the plugin (wrong file name).o >> >> Dan >> >> > -----Original Message-----n6 >> > From: James Gessling [mailto:jgessling@yahoo.com]( >> > Sent: Monday, June 17, 2002 9:34 AM >> > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com+ >> > Subject: Re: Apache 2.0 and Tomcat 4.0e >> > >> >L >> > I wouldn't be in too much of a hurry for Tomcat  4.  I downloaded 4.0.3 > onto >> > a Linux boxJ >> > and it just plain didn't work.  Problems finding and loading classes. > This >> > version was billedeL >> > as the "stable" release.  4.0.4(beta 3) worked better for me, but it is >> > still beta. >> > >> > Jim >> > >> >= >> > "Marty Kuhrt" <kuhrt@encompasserve.org> wrote in messagee2 >> > news:iMMT0Z8yn6of@eisner.encompasserve.org...L >> > > Anyone have an idea when Apache 2.0 (CSWS) and Tomcat 4.0 (CSWS_JAVA)! >> > > will be available for VMS?  >> > >> > >> > >  >    ------------------------------    Date: 17 Jun 2002 20:06:53 -0700( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)& Subject: Apache bug affect VMS Apache?< Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0206171906.25524c8@posting.google.com>  ? Does this affect VMS and will there be patches for prior Apacheu	 versions?s     June 17, 2002   Flaw Found in Apache HTTP Server By  Dennis Fisher   F A buffer overrun vulnerability in the Apache HTTP server included with? many popular Web servers enables an attacker to execute code on  vulnerable machines.  F The flaw lies in the way that the server handles data transmissions ofE unknown size. Typically, these transmissions are broken into "chunks"AD for easier handling. But Apache's HTTP server misinterprets the sizeF of the chunks, which leads to an overrun of the heap memory, accordingC to an advisory published Monday by Internet Security Systems Inc.'sA X-Force research team.  A The vulnerability can be exploited remotely by way of a carefully F crafted invalid request to the server, and the flawed functionality isE enabled by default. Exploiting the flaw could either lead to a denialh= of service on the machine or the execution of malicious code.n  = The Apache Software Foundation's Apache Server Project, whichyE maintains the open-source HTTP server, also issued a bulletin warnings@ that all versions of Apache 1.3 are vulnerable, as are copies of version 2 up to 2.0.39.b  @ However, versions 2.0 and later are not vulnerable to the remote* execution of code, Apache's advisory said.  E Apache is by far the most widely deployed Web server on the Internet,oE running on more than 50 percent of machines surveyed by Netcraft Ltd. A Its HTTP server is included in products such as Oracle Corp.'s 9is- Application Server and IBM Corp.'s WebSphere.2  C The Foundation said it was forced to release its advisory earlyandeB without an available patchbecause of ISS' decision to publish its	 bulletin.t   ------------------------------    Date: 17 Jun 2002 12:55:16 -0700( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)> Subject: Call or email hp ... they will answer your questions!< Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0206171155.8389bd1@posting.google.com>  @ If you have any doubts about VMS, call your rep or hp vms group.; I emailed Rich Marcello and just got off of the phone after.= having a nice little chat with him.  He is very aware of whatr9 is going on, but after learning a few behind the scences r@ happenings, everything will be just fine ... I am confident more? than ever that VMS will survive ... and so is Rich ... vms willc? continue to be developed,  and inroads made, slowly but surely.r@ This may not be fast enough for most, but my plans are made, and= I am assured they will happen.  I can now go back to the besta; environment in the world and get real work done while I sitt5 and watch everyone else not on vms crash and burn ...a  < P.S.  A replacement for the ds10/ds10l running vms should be-       coming in the not to distant future ...t   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2002 21:19:15 GMT 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>aB Subject: Re: Call or email hp ... they will answer your questions!' Message-ID: <3D0E5626.EBF15498@fsi.net>    Bob Ceculski wrote:d > B > If you have any doubts about VMS, call your rep or hp vms group.= > I emailed Rich Marcello and just got off of the phone aftert? > having a nice little chat with him.  He is very aware of what : > is going on, but after learning a few behind the scencesB > happenings, everything will be just fine ... I am confident moreA > than ever that VMS will survive ... and so is Rich ... vms willoA > continue to be developed,  and inroads made, slowly but surely. B > This may not be fast enough for most, but my plans are made, and? > I am assured they will happen.  I can now go back to the bestr= > environment in the world and get real work done while I sito7 > and watch everyone else not on vms crash and burn ...a > > > P.S.  A replacement for the ds10/ds10l running vms should be/ >       coming in the not to distant future ...y  G Gee - now if we could get Rich in the loop on our sales cycle, maybe HEnG could explain the so-called "dead end" Alpha to our prospects who throwt that back in our face...  ? Preaching to the choir *STILL* doesn't cut - _THE_ _WORD_ _HAS_iH __G_O_T__ _TO_ _GET_ _TO_ _THE_ _MASSES_ _._  Period - end of statement.  E There's no ifs, ands, buts, ors, maybes, howevers or otherwises abouto it!    -- t David J. Dachterar dba DJE SystemsG http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/h   ------------------------------    Date: 17 Jun 2002 22:00:47 -0600+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young),B Subject: Re: Call or email hp ... they will answer your questions!3 Message-ID: <lbyIEgkFPfUY@eisner.encompasserve.org>-  [ In article <3D0E5626.EBF15498@fsi.net>, "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> writes:r > Bob Ceculski wrote:J >> aC >> If you have any doubts about VMS, call your rep or hp vms group.r> >> I emailed Rich Marcello and just got off of the phone after@ >> having a nice little chat with him.  He is very aware of what; >> is going on, but after learning a few behind the scencesrC >> happenings, everything will be just fine ... I am confident moreiB >> than ever that VMS will survive ... and so is Rich ... vms willB >> continue to be developed,  and inroads made, slowly but surely.C >> This may not be fast enough for most, but my plans are made, and/@ >> I am assured they will happen.  I can now go back to the best> >> environment in the world and get real work done while I sit8 >> and watch everyone else not on vms crash and burn ... >> t? >> P.S.  A replacement for the ds10/ds10l running vms should bee0 >>       coming in the not to distant future ... > I > Gee - now if we could get Rich in the loop on our sales cycle, maybe HEoI > could explain the so-called "dead end" Alpha to our prospects who throw  > that back in our face... >   ; 	You might try pointing out that MIPS is dead-ended for theo> 	Tandem folks.  Also, by the time a customer needs performance> 	beyond EV7, the transition to Itanium should be the smoothest@ 	ever.  I have been involved in several migrations VAX to Alpha.A 	Code changes VAX to Alpha were very minor.  If Itanium compilersu= 	are bug for bug compatible for Alpha, it should literally bei( 	a recompile for most folks.  Yes, test.  B 	We could probably spend/waste a great deal of time debating this,H 	but I do believe a transition should be very smooth for most customers.  @ 	Remember, VMS is VMS is VMS... and VAX to Alpha was a whole lot? 	bumpier as the code wasn't always a recompile and the last VAX5? 	wasn't faster than the rest of the industry.  The last line ofA 	Alphas will be.   				Robw   ------------------------------    Date: 17 Jun 2002 20:15:24 -0700( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)B Subject: Re: Call or email hp ... they will answer your questions!= Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0206171915.138f6d87@posting.google.com>w  ` "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote in message news:<3D0E5626.EBF15498@fsi.net>... > Bob Ceculski wrote:  > > D > > If you have any doubts about VMS, call your rep or hp vms group.? > > I emailed Rich Marcello and just got off of the phone after>A > > having a nice little chat with him.  He is very aware of whatg< > > is going on, but after learning a few behind the scencesD > > happenings, everything will be just fine ... I am confident moreC > > than ever that VMS will survive ... and so is Rich ... vms will C > > continue to be developed,  and inroads made, slowly but surely.bD > > This may not be fast enough for most, but my plans are made, andA > > I am assured they will happen.  I can now go back to the besty? > > environment in the world and get real work done while I site9 > > and watch everyone else not on vms crash and burn ...h > > @ > > P.S.  A replacement for the ds10/ds10l running vms should be1 > >       coming in the not to distant future ...d > I > Gee - now if we could get Rich in the loop on our sales cycle, maybe HEoI > could explain the so-called "dead end" Alpha to our prospects who thrown > that back in our face... > A > Preaching to the choir *STILL* doesn't cut - _THE_ _WORD_ _HAS_hJ > __G_O_T__ _TO_ _GET_ _TO_ _THE_ _MASSES_ _._  Period - end of statement. > G > There's no ifs, ands, buts, ors, maybes, howevers or otherwises abouth > it!a  C Alpha is not dead, and will do very well for at least next 5 years,aA and by then Itanium VMS will offer an inexpensive alternative ... B Migrating with RMS is very easy ... we went from PDP RSTS DIBOL to@ VAX DIBOL to Alpha DIBOL RMS with ease ... RMS is RMS, and DIBOLA just requires a recompile ... if you develop Dave with a portable D platform language like Synergy DBL which runs on windoze/unix/linux,F and mimics RMS, ports from PDP to VAX to Alpha to Itanium are a breezeC and you can leave the platform for one of the other if you can calleD them platforms if forced too, so you leverage your Alpha investment,D then on to Itanium, or else another platform if you have the stomach for it ... simple!   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2002 16:37:05 -0500r& From: jlsue <jlsuexxxz@screaminet.com># Subject: Re: Copying a file via FID18 Message-ID: <cflsgu0g6hmmlmd5asug97im1b11hahpjb@4ax.com>  = Well, Eigen Corp. had Eigen tools - a collect of lots of neat-C utilities for system and application troubleshooting.  One of theseH* was FIDENTER that would do what you want.S  F On 4 Jun 2002 09:58:38 -0700, Jack.trachtman@vmmc.org (Jack Trachtman) wrote:  
 >More detail:H >EA >We have an application that uses Spooled LAT devices to send its.= >output to printers.  To be able to debug some of the reports)F >generated, we need to capture these reports.  Unfortunately, VMS doesD >not assign a file name to these files, only the (required) FID, and( >the file name shows up in the print que >as "[].;".* >*E >I can get the FID via F$GETQUI and I can look at the directory entry E >using DFU. But I can't figure out (without writing a program) how tod- >copy the file within DCL using just its FID.e >eE >Or maybe there's a way to temporarily direct the output from a printr >que to a file???   1 Not speaking for anyone, certainly not DEC/Compaq - (get rid of the xxxz in my address to e-mail)    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2002 14:17:06 -0400d( From: David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>$ Subject: Re: Could linux become VMS?, Message-ID: <3D0E27A2.6040504@tsoft-inc.com>   Atlant Schmidt wrote:h   > Frank Sapienza wrote:) >  > L >>As for your post above, in response to Sharon, how does this "screw up the >>local (on terminal) display"?* >>6 >>Sharon's one gaff was to exclude the /USER qualifer: >># >>$ DEFINE /USER SYS$OUTPUT LTA100:     Q I seem to remember that user mode is the default for logical definition, thus no  " requirement for the specification.   Dave   ------------------------------    Date: 17 Jun 2002 13:40:18 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)t$ Subject: Re: Could linux become VMS?3 Message-ID: <2hkoHHHRcSrf@eisner.encompasserve.org>e  W In article <3D0E27A2.6040504@tsoft-inc.com>, David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> writes:s > Atlant Schmidt wrote:n >  >> Frank Sapienza wrote: >> s >> vM >>>As for your post above, in response to Sharon, how does this "screw up the   >>>local (on terminal) display"? >>> 7 >>>Sharon's one gaff was to exclude the /USER qualifer:c >>>e$ >>>$ DEFINE /USER SYS$OUTPUT LTA100: >  > S > I seem to remember that user mode is the default for logical definition, thus no  $ > requirement for the specification.  D You remember wrong.  Supervisor mode is the default, causing logical@ names in the process logical name table to persist until processC termination (unless explicitly deassigned or replaced before then).e   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2002 18:15:50 -0400e, From: "Frank Sapienza" <sapienza@noesys.com>$ Subject: Re: Could linux become VMS?, Message-ID: <aeln8a019cu@enews4.newsguy.com>  ? "Atlant Schmidt" <atlantnospam@mindspring.com> wrote in messagey( news:3D0DEB10.6B08B5C0@mindspring.com...) > Since you said the magic words "and the 0 > terminal display is fine: there will be none",1 > I take it you understand how this screws up theh2 > terminal output as compared to "tee". Of course,, > if you want purely /PRINT or /OUTPUT, then > this solution works fine.  >o  H You're simply confirming what appears to be the growing suspicion around7 here: you're an ass.  Or a troll, whichever you prefer.   E Since you're the one who initially asked about the /PRINT and /OUTPUTnJ qualifiers then all the solutions offered to you so far not only work fineC but dismiss your initial challenge.  I don't see you admitting thattI anywhere.  In fact, all I see is your persistent habit of redirecting theaD argument to something else once you've been shown the VMS method for/ handling everything you've thrown at the group.o  H "Tee" being the perfect example.  You weren't happy with the response toI your challenge about /OUTPUT and /PRINT so you turned it into an argument  about "tee" instead.  7 > Well, if you remember to include the /USER qualifier,  > as Sharon didn't.i >[  D Yes, and piping under Unix only works if you remember to include the appropriate symbols, as well.   E I'll ask again, since you ignored it in my first post:  Which of your : *original* challenges hasn't been answered satisfactorily?   ------------------------------   Date: 18 Jun 2002 00:17 CDTe' From: carl@gerg.tamu.edu (Carl Perkins) $ Subject: Re: Could linux become VMS?- Message-ID: <18JUN200200174783@gerg.tamu.edu>e  0 "Frank Sapienza" <sapienza@noesys.com> writes... }It seems to meyL }that you're retreating and trying to reword your challenge now to something }else: mimic a "tee" facility.  > See HELP PIPE EXAMPLES, example 5. It shows how to do a "tee".   --- Carl   ------------------------------    Date: 17 Jun 2002 16:05:20 -0700. From: SPAMSINK2001@YAHOO.COM (Alan E. Feldman)G Subject: Re: DCL Puzzle: Can you produce this DIRECTORY command output?o= Message-ID: <343f30ae.0206171505.15b2e0ba@posting.google.com>   l DCantor@shore.net (David A. Cantor) wrote in message news:<%YvO8.5081$qL5.127170@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net>...o > In article <343f30ae.0206141439.2b094aa4@posting.google.com>, SPAMSINK2001@YAHOO.COM (Alan E. Feldman) wrote:eH > >Can you construct an argument for the DIRECTORY command that produces0 > >the following output?:  (Sorry, no prizes :-( >  >  > >Directory SPOOK:d >  m > >*.*;t >  o > >Total of 1 file.p > Q > Absolutely, but I'm assuming that the device/directory listed does not have to d? > say SPOOK:.  If it does, then I guess I have more work to do.l >  > $ define spook 0::nla0:  > $ directory /brief spook:*.*;  > $ > Directory 0::NLA0:[FAL$SERVER]     >  > *.*;                 >  > Total of 1 file. > $  > 	 > Dave C.a    @ Wow. Pretty good, but that's still not the answer. I'll post the4 answer on Friday, unless someone asks for more time.   Disclaimer: JMHO Alan E. Feldmanh afeldman gfigroup comi   ------------------------------   Date: 17 Jun 2002 18:29:22 GMT2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) Subject: Re: DiskQuota* Message-ID: <ael9q2$n3i$3@web1.cup.hp.com>  m In article <bf1b7500.0206051444.4f631ebf@posting.google.com>, zroundtree@oasys.com (Zoltan Roundtree) writes:-G :Is there a way to limit DISKQUOTA to a particular directory as apposedo :to using the entire disk?  K   Reading much into the question -- please remember that a one- or two-line2K   question can be exceedingly difficult to answer because of its potential  G   for ambiguity, and please remember to include the OpenVMS version andtG   platform -- please look at the OpenVMS resource identifier mechanism.vH   The resource identifier mechanism works in conjunction with the SYSMAN<   DISKQUOTA mechanisms and with the other DISKQUOTA utility.  G   If resource identifiers do not address your specific question, please>K   consider providing some details on the particular problem you are trying eI   to solve -- a detailed question on a particular proposed solution to anrG   unspecified problem doesn't really leave me with enough to determine eK   exactly what problem is being addressed.  Further, even if we can providecL   a specific answer to the particular question posed, there might well be a J   better, different or alternative answer to the actual problem available.I   By posing a specific question without supporting background, you might  ,   not learn about the alternative solutions.  E   For details on resource identifiers, please see the security manuale"   and the system manager's manual.  N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------N       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.com    N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 18 Jun 2002 01:44:37 GMTe- From: "John E. Malmberg" <wb8tyw@qsl.network>t* Subject: Re: install image /write/resident* Message-ID: <3D0E8CA3.9000908@qsl.network>   Jakob Erber wrote: > Hello, > E > according to compaq engineering, one of our sharable images must behJ > installed with the qualifiers above, in order to be able to link symbolsL > dynamicly via dlsym. I would be glad if somebody could give me hints about3 > possible negativ side effects of this qualifiers.A   How about a cookbook?   ? http://www.openvms.compaq.com/wizard/swdev/ovms-shexe-cook.html   I A shared image must be installed as writable if it has a data psect that o% is writable by more than one process.i  E This has implications in a VMSCLUSTER, as each member of the cluster n2 must have their own private version of this image.  I It is much better if you can design your shared image to not require the a /write qualifier.p  H Frequently this is caused by process private data being marked as being = shared between processes.  See the cookbook referenced above.i  I Otherwise, you can code the image to create a dynamic global section for 5G the shared data, and then your shared image will not need the writable a
 attribute.   -Johnn wb8tyw@qsl.network Personal Opinion Only.   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2002 19:59:44 GMTS1 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com>rH Subject: Re: Interesting ZDnet post about Tandem -- Can VMS do the same?= Message-ID: <QcrP8.62166$R61.15683@rwcrnsc52.ops.asp.att.net>n  : "Bob Koehler" <koehler@encompasserve.org> wrote in message- news:CeIsbIONB+t8@eisner.encompasserve.org...t5 > In article <KcnDYBdEmq7F@eisner.encompasserve.org>,t- young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) writes: . > > http://zdnet.com.com/2100-1103-935814.html > >uH > > "We've been lusting after their compilers for years," Nist said. "On Sept. 5,K > > the day after the merger was announced, my compiler people wanted to go  across1 > > the street" to talk to the HP compiler teams.l > >n@ > > What was wrong with Digital/Compaq compiler teams?  From allD > > indications they make excellent compilers.  "lusting after theirA > > compilers for years"  doesn't make a whole lot of sense (fromp > > an external viewpoint).l  K Nothing wrong with the GEM compiler team. Note that the NonStop platform is4I going the IPF route, hence IPF compilers are of great interest to PaulineSH and crew. And it's fair to say that HP has more than a little experience with said compilers.  L In no way was Pauline maligning the Digital/Compaq compiler teams, but theirF focus was on Alpha, which "left the NonStop building" on 25 June 2001.  E Still it would be nice for ZDNET to do an article on VMS advocates...v   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2002 20:30:06 GMTr* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>H Subject: Re: Interesting ZDnet post about Tandem -- Can VMS do the same?C Message-ID: <iFrP8.294873$Oa1.24311165@bin8.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>w  < "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com> wrote in message7 news:QcrP8.62166$R61.15683@rwcrnsc52.ops.asp.att.net...m   ...   # > Note that the NonStop platform is K > going the IPF route, hence IPF compilers are of great interest to PaulineiJ > and crew. And it's fair to say that HP has more than a little experience > with said compilers. >eH > In no way was Pauline maligning the Digital/Compaq compiler teams, but theirtH > focus was on Alpha, which "left the NonStop building" on 25 June 2001.  J That still doesn't make any sense out of the statement "We've been lustingK after their compilers for years", since until last June 25th the NSK targettD was still Alpha (and hence Itanic HP compilers would have been of no9 interest prior to that date - certainly not 'for years').-   - bill   ------------------------------    Date: 17 Jun 2002 15:36:09 -0600+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young)wH Subject: Re: Interesting ZDnet post about Tandem -- Can VMS do the same?3 Message-ID: <C3rOJPNqJjev@eisner.encompasserve.org>v  p In article <iFrP8.294873$Oa1.24311165@bin8.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>, "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> writes: > > > "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com> wrote in message9 > news:QcrP8.62166$R61.15683@rwcrnsc52.ops.asp.att.net...w >  > ...e > $ >> Note that the NonStop platform isL >> going the IPF route, hence IPF compilers are of great interest to PaulineK >> and crew. And it's fair to say that HP has more than a little experienced >> with said compilers.  >>I >> In no way was Pauline maligning the Digital/Compaq compiler teams, but  > theirsI >> focus was on Alpha, which "left the NonStop building" on 25 June 2001.a > L > That still doesn't make any sense out of the statement "We've been lustingM > after their compilers for years", since until last June 25th the NSK target>F > was still Alpha (and hence Itanic HP compilers would have been of no; > interest prior to that date - certainly not 'for years').o >    	Exactly.  Thanks Bill.o   			Rob   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2002 21:05:54 GMT 1 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com>.H Subject: Re: Interesting ZDnet post about Tandem -- Can VMS do the same?= Message-ID: <SasP8.79202$6m5.63505@rwcrnsc51.ops.asp.att.net>y  8 "Rob Young" <young_r@encompasserve.org> wrote in message- news:C3rOJPNqJjev@eisner.encompasserve.org...oK > In article <iFrP8.294873$Oa1.24311165@bin8.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>, "Billp& Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> writes: > >,@ > > "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com> wrote in message; > > news:QcrP8.62166$R61.15683@rwcrnsc52.ops.asp.att.net...i > >i > > ...I > >e& > >> Note that the NonStop platform isF > >> going the IPF route, hence IPF compilers are of great interest to PaulineoB > >> and crew. And it's fair to say that HP has more than a little
 experience > >> with said compilers.h > >>K > >> In no way was Pauline maligning the Digital/Compaq compiler teams, but-	 > > their K > >> focus was on Alpha, which "left the NonStop building" on 25 June 2001.  > >cF > > That still doesn't make any sense out of the statement "We've been lustingaH > > after their compilers for years", since until last June 25th the NSK targetH > > was still Alpha (and hence Itanic HP compilers would have been of no= > > interest prior to that date - certainly not 'for years').u > >  >h > Exactly.  Thanks Bill. >i > Robe >   L As an FYI, Pauline wanted to go with IPF four years ago, and that's the pathJ the Tandem Division took until the DEC acquisition rammed Alpha down their9 throats. This could have something to do with the lust....   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2002 21:29:22 GMTi* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>H Subject: Re: Interesting ZDnet post about Tandem -- Can VMS do the same?? Message-ID: <SwsP8.3388$_j6.237011@bin3.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>l  < "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com> wrote in message7 news:SasP8.79202$6m5.63505@rwcrnsc51.ops.asp.att.net...    ...e  I > As an FYI, Pauline wanted to go with IPF four years ago, and that's thes pathL > the Tandem Division took until the DEC acquisition rammed Alpha down their; > throats. This could have something to do with the lust...   J To say that they've been lusting after the Itanic compilers 'for years' atL least suggests a degree of continuity rather than a historical lust long ago discarded but then reacquired.  K Furthermore, four years ago - in particular, prior to the DEC acquisition -.H there was a good deal more excuse for believing Intel's rosy projectionsF about Itanic's schedule and performance (or at least far less dramaticI evidence to the contrary, though its schedule had already taken its first H major slip by then).  And there was also a good deal less reason to haveH been optimistic about Alpha (because of the manifest incompetence of itsK owner) than there was after Compaq acquired it and Pfeiffer started being a G booster.  So if the change to Alpha indeed had to be 'rammed down their L throats', that suggests a significant degree of incompetence on their part -K and possibly exposes another division of Compaq that had a vested interest,uH in conflict with the best interests of the company as a whole, in seeing
 Alpha killed.e   - bill   ------------------------------    Date: 17 Jun 2002 21:47:39 -0600+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young)sH Subject: Re: Interesting ZDnet post about Tandem -- Can VMS do the same?3 Message-ID: <cXEzBehluZyn@eisner.encompasserve.org>   l In article <SwsP8.3388$_j6.237011@bin3.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>, "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> writes: > > > "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com> wrote in message9 > news:SasP8.79202$6m5.63505@rwcrnsc51.ops.asp.att.net...t >  > ...: > J >> As an FYI, Pauline wanted to go with IPF four years ago, and that's the > pathM >> the Tandem Division took until the DEC acquisition rammed Alpha down their < >> throats. This could have something to do with the lust... > L > To say that they've been lusting after the Itanic compilers 'for years' atN > least suggests a degree of continuity rather than a historical lust long ago  > discarded but then reacquired. > M > Furthermore, four years ago - in particular, prior to the DEC acquisition -hJ > there was a good deal more excuse for believing Intel's rosy projectionsH > about Itanic's schedule and performance (or at least far less dramaticK > evidence to the contrary, though its schedule had already taken its first J > major slip by then).  And there was also a good deal less reason to haveJ > been optimistic about Alpha (because of the manifest incompetence of itsM > owner) than there was after Compaq acquired it and Pfeiffer started being aoI > booster.  So if the change to Alpha indeed had to be 'rammed down theiroN > throats', that suggests a significant degree of incompetence on their part -M > and possibly exposes another division of Compaq that had a vested interest,SJ > in conflict with the best interests of the company as a whole, in seeing > Alpha killed.o >   ? 	While I certainly wouldn't embrace all that line of reasoning,-G 	I do agree that the statement indicates a long time thing.  Certainly,p? 	if she had stated "for quite some time" my radar wouldn't have?	 	gone up.D  ? 	Having started down Itanium path and forced to switch gears to6A 	Alpha sounds like it may have left behind some tough feelings as ? 	they couldn't wait to get across the street and "pick up wherev 	they left off."   				Robi   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2002 22:36:27 GMT)- From: goathunter@goatley.com (Hunter Goatley)xK Subject: Re: Latest UNZIP? (was: WASD 7.2.2 download is not HTROOT722.ZIP?) 0 Message-ID: <3d0e638c.31346864@news.process.com>  K On Mon, 10 Jun 2002 07:56:36 +0200, Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@Free.fr>o wrote:  + >I used the V5 one from the V5 freeware CD.iL >Attempting to download the one available from the WASD page gives an error: >m7 >"There was an error reading from the source location".t >) >D.  >- >"Craig A. Berry" wrote: >> aI >> I've had no trouble downloading ZIP files with Mozilla 1.0 on VMS 7.3.yJ >> The problems you have been describing are characteristic of an outdatedH >> version of UNZIP.  Current is 5.50.  Less than 5.42 is prone to majorG >> difficulties when unzipping archives created with recent versions ofm >> ZIP.s  H Quick history reminder: Info-ZIP was the first group to implement savingI VMS file attributes in .ZIP files.  They did this years before PKware did"I it.  Consequently, when PKware added that support, they chose a different H method than that used by Info-ZIP's ZIP and UNZIP.  So starting with ZIPH V2.0, the method used to store VMS file attributes was modified to matchJ the method used by PKware.  UnZip v5.2 was the first version of Info-ZIP'sG UnZip to understand both methods.  Versions of UnZip prior to V5.2 williM not be able to handle .ZIP files created with Zip V2.0 or later that preservee VMS file attributes.  J As for where to get it, you can always find the latest versions of Zip and UnZip in my archives.    http://www.process.com/openvms/   3 ftp://ftp.process.com/vms-freeware/fileserv/zip.zip 5 ftp://ftp.process.com/vms-freeware/fileserv/unzip.zipc5 ftp://ftp.process.com/vms-freeware/fileserv/unzip.bck   > along with binaries for VAX/VMS V5.4+ and OpenVMS Alpha V6.0+.   Hunter ------9 Hunter Goatley, Process Software, http://www.process.com/e8 goathunter@goatley.com    http://www.goatley.com/hunter/< New Robert R. McCammon site: http://www.RobertRMcCammon.com/   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2002 19:19:29 GMTw* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>& Subject: Re: Linus' comments about VMSB Message-ID: <5DqP8.262359$%y.22673426@bin4.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>  = "Paul Winalski" <prune@ZAnkh-Morpork.mv.com> wrote in message 2 news:3d0e0af7.748920280@proxy.news.easynews.com...B > On Sun, 16 Jun 2002 13:18:36 +0200, "Hans Vlems" <hvlems@iae.nl> > wrote: >oD > >The point is that in the early 70's o/s design was not a science. >mG > And you think it WAS a science at the time VMS was designed (the mid--	 > 1970s)?a > ? > Unix at least went through a major rewrite in the late 1980s.   L Some did, some didn't.  Though I hardly am any kind of expert in the matter,J the only *really* significant late-'80s work-over that I know of was Mach,L which OSF/1, and hence Tru64, adopted (did anyone else?).  BSD may have beenK a major rewrite itself (though not a major redesign, as Mach was), but IIRCg
 came earlier.M     Modern. > Unixes (Linux, Tru64) are microkernel-based.  K If Linux has a microkernel, it's so well hidden that one of the significanttE kernel books (Linux Device Drivers) doesn't seem to consider it worth*J mentioning (and its description of the Linux kernel doesn't sound like anyG microkernel I've ever heard of - save possibly the 'microkernel' NT wase  claimed by some people to have).  J And since HP-UX isn't microkernel-based either, I guess it doesn't qualifyJ as 'modern' in your lexicon.  How about AIX?  And Solaris?  And IRIX?  AndJ *BSD?  (Real, not rhetorical, questions:  I don't happen to know which, if any, may be microkernel-based.)      Under the covers,aG > there's very little left of the original AT&T code.  In contrast, VMSuB > inside still is to a great extent warmed-over RSX-11M in design.  H But I suspect that looking for any 'original RSX code' in it would proveL fruitless.  For that matter, finding unchanged VMS V1.0 code might be ratherL difficult.  VMS isn't any closer to RSX than most contemporary Unixes are to the original AT&T version.   - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2002 21:55:16 +0200 " From: "Hans Vlems" <hvlems@iae.nl>& Subject: Re: Linus' comments about VMS5 Message-ID: <aelesm$81ndd$1@ID-143435.news.dfncis.de>a  K Hmmm, my point is that the the basic design of VMS is somewhat more complexn
 than unix.F AFAIK that statement is in line with what I've read about unix and VMS development histories.I The point was that unix got started as a clean small kernel surrounded byn dedicated tools.G VMS was designed with more complixity built in, just have a look at VMS  Internals and Data Structures.D Such a complex product is difficult to build even with all engineers carefully selected and& working with the same "state of mind".J It was not meant as a statement about the engineers and the quality of the products they build.I There are enough silly o/s wars already and I do not intend to start yaowp (yet another os war, in true unix command fashion).   Hans  2 Brass Christof <welcome@spam.not> wrote in message" news:3D0C8430.77E34504@spam.not... > Hans Vlems wrote:e > > J > > I missed the start of the thread. The answer is obviously that there's
 no way theF > > VMS source code can be maintained like a unix look alike. Unix was designed around amC > > small kernel and all user functionality is delivered by a large>
 collection > > of small tools. G > > The main advantage is flexibility (i.e. independence) in design and  development. TheG > > downside is that there's hardly any standardization in those tools.  These arguments arepK > > not mine, they can be found in books by Bourne, Kernighan and Pike etc.-L > > The point is that in the early 70's o/s design was not a science. For an open communityH > > that is an advantage. No way that you'd want an untrained programmer work on something simple% > > like the VMS lock manager, right?m > 	 > :-) :-), >e* > It seems that you're saying that quality- > cannot be achieved by open source projects.e > Do you think so? >a) > It seems that you're implying that onlyy5 > untrained programmers work in open source projects.e > Do you think so? >AF > What do you think about the FreeVMS project that uses a Linux kernelD > as starting point but want to achieve something similar as VMS? MyC > point is that the design contraints are already there which couldi@ > make this project suitable for open source newbie programmers. >t > --@ > According to the Quality Assurance Institute C/C++/ObjC, PERL,A > UNIX (incl. Linux) and Windows/XY are regarded as harmful. Javai2 > is slow and the class library is badly designed.9 > moc dot slupofni at ssarb - please reverse the sequencee   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2002 22:03:58 +0200m" From: "Hans Vlems" <hvlems@iae.nl>& Subject: Re: Linus' comments about VMS5 Message-ID: <aelesn$81ndd$2@ID-143435.news.dfncis.de>   L VMS went through at least two entire code changes. VMS inside has nothing to do with RSX-11M whatsoever.0  K I'm not underestimating the quality of the engineers, I'm commenting on theR problems ofgI running a large software project. That takes a lot of expertise and it isR more than goodJ programming (which is a prerequisite). Many people can design/write proper if not outstandingI algorithms. Doing the same thing with good quality over and over is not ap
 trivial task. " That was the point of my argument.  ; Paul Winalski <prune@ZAnkh-Morpork.mv.com> wrote in messageu2 news:3d0e0af7.748920280@proxy.news.easynews.com...B > On Sun, 16 Jun 2002 13:18:36 +0200, "Hans Vlems" <hvlems@iae.nl> > wrote: >cD > >The point is that in the early 70's o/s design was not a science. >oG > And you think it WAS a science at the time VMS was designed (the mid-m	 > 1970s)?l > G > Unix at least went through a major rewrite in the late 1980s.  ModernoA > Unixes (Linux, Tru64) are microkernel-based.  Under the covers,nG > there's very little left of the original AT&T code.  In contrast, VMStB > inside still is to a great extent warmed-over RSX-11M in design. >a	 > >For an  > >open community that isrG > >an advantage. No way that you'd want an untrained programmer work ons > >something simplen$ > >like the VMS lock manager, right? >oF > Several "untrained programmers" (read: recent college grads) **did** > work on the VMS Lock Manager.  >lH > I think you're drastically underestimating the level of quality of the8 > work being done in Linux by the open source community. > C > That being said, open source development does have its downsides.sH > In any large project, such as an OS, there are fun, exciting things toH > work on and there are pieces of drudgery work, which are difficult andE > unglamorous, but nonetheless vital.  People tend not to work on thenD > latter aspects unless they're paid to do so.  Open source projectsH > tend to pay a lot of attention to things that are either easy, fun, orF > glamorous, and to give short shrift to things that are difficult and > not glamorous. >i > ---------- > Remove 'Z' to reply by email.n   ------------------------------    Date: 17 Jun 2002 15:18:38 -0600+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young)u& Subject: Re: Linus' comments about VMS3 Message-ID: <OjZ$ka2fajPH@eisner.encompasserve.org>   Z In article <aelesn$81ndd$2@ID-143435.news.dfncis.de>, "Hans Vlems" <hvlems@iae.nl> writes:N > VMS went through at least two entire code changes. VMS inside has nothing to > do with RSX-11M whatsoever.  > M > I'm not underestimating the quality of the engineers, I'm commenting on theo
 > problems ofeK > running a large software project. That takes a lot of expertise and it is  > more than goodL > programming (which is a prerequisite). Many people can design/write proper > if not outstandingK > algorithms. Doing the same thing with good quality over and over is not aT > trivial task.<$ > That was the point of my argument. >   1 	While it was/is your point, taking exception to:t  M "Doing the same thing with good quality over and over is not a trivial task."e  9 	That is correct, it is apparently a matter of culture.  d  V http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=3BEB45BC.EB6FC11C%40gce.com&oe=UTF8&output=gplain    	Quoting a snippet of the above:  I The result of this process is that designs that come out generally have a L certain elegance, and that security mistakes are few. The process means thatN almost everything has many minds looking it over (the exceptions tending to beN hardware control code where one person has really mastered a piece of hardware$ and others know it only glancingly.)  = 	The link above is a good read, if for no other reason to seef 	how it is done.   				Rob    ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2002 20:49:47 GMT1! From: Andy <acs@fcgnet.works.net>r& Subject: Re: Linus' comments about VMS> Message-ID: <Xns9230AAF381728acsfcgnetworksnet@216.166.71.232>  8 "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> enlightened us with; news:5DqP8.262359$%y.22673426@bin4.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com: t   > ? > "Paul Winalski" <prune@ZAnkh-Morpork.mv.com> wrote in messagec4 > news:3d0e0af7.748920280@proxy.news.easynews.com...@ >> Unix at least went through a major rewrite in the late 1980s. > B > Some did, some didn't.  Though I hardly am any kind of expert in? > the matter, the only *really* significant late-'80s work-over @ > that I know of was Mach, which OSF/1, and hence Tru64, adopted > (did anyone else?).     > Hmmm.... NextStep (and its' descendants OpenStep & Mac OS X) ?7 Also, mkLinux was/is a version of Linux on top of Mach.t   -Andy- -- s   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 18 Jun 2002 01:31:44 GMTr- From: "John E. Malmberg" <wb8tyw@qsl.network>h Subject: Re: more tpu doubts* Message-ID: <3D0E899F.9060500@qsl.network>   Kesav Tadimeti wrote: G  > Hello all, Sorry for the MIME. I am using outlook to send mails, but !  > do not know how to disable it.t  E There should be an option under one of the pull down menus to specifyh plain text.o  D Also check the options pages for compose messages for mail and news.D There should be two options, one for send in plain text, make it theF default as most newsgroups do not want MIME.  You may want to ask yourE software vendor why they set the default opposite of the most populari convention.s  E Another box that needs to be cleared is the respond in same mode as aeG message was received in.  This apparently overides all other plain texte	 settings.:  F Also, it has been reported that if you use an imbedded word processor,+ that will override the plain text settings.a  ? The simplest thing might be to get a better behaved newsreader.m  A On the freeware CD-ROM at http://www.openvms.compaq.com there are.H several newsreaders that can be easily configured to do plain text only.  2 Or you can use MOZILLA on OpenVMS like I am using.    >G  > Thanks to all for giving me suggestions. set term/noeightbit worked.oD  > But from my emulation s/w I was emulating vt400-7. changing it to  > vt400-8 solved the problem.  >G  > Q: WHen in TPU can I save to the same file I am working on? COMMAND:c5  >  save hello.tx creates a new version of hello.txt.g  G Well, TPU is an editor lenguage, the actual editor that is based on TPUo on an OpenVMS system is EVE.  F And I am sorry to inform you that it did not save your file.  The SAVEC command actually just saves the current attributes of your editing lG session.  If you specified the name of the file that you are currently eC editing, you just covered it up with a binary copy of your current a editing attributes.f  I Please be carefull about deleting any of the versions of your file until n you inspect their contents.n  H It is likely that when you exited the editor, it wrote out your changed > file over the previous version which contained nothing useful.  3  > This is similar to SAVE AS in the windows world.n  A No, it is similar to SAVE OPTIONS in the windows world.  Totally l different than what you want.   ;  > What if I want to save to the same file I am working on?1  D The command is "WRITE FILE filename", and can abbrieviated to WRITE.  I If you do not specify a filename, then the current filename will be used.E  K If you type in HELP at the command line, much information will be revealed.n  H Also EVE will warn you if you have modified buffers if you use the QUIT 5 option.  It will only write modified buffers on EXIT.s  8  > Q: Is there a similar feature in EDT - online saving?  ' I do not use EDT enough to answer that.   < If I can not do it in my customized EVE section, I use TECO.   -Johne wb8tyw@qsl.network Personal Opinion Onlya   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 18 Jun 2002 01:08:26 GMTt1 From: Richard Banks <rbanks_@_arel_com_au.nospam>a5 Subject: Re: My conversation with Linus about VMS ...s; Message-ID: <Xns923171292875Drbanksatarelcomau@61.9.128.12>a  D LESLIE@JRLVAX.HOUSTON.RR.COM (Jerry Leslie) wrote in news:7%9O8.8319! $9b.534561@typhoon.austin.rr.com:c  4 > Richard Banks (rbanks_@_arel_com_au.nospam) wrote: >:D >: VMS ONLY runs on Alphas - you have to have an Alpha to use VMS.   >:   > VMS still runs on VAXes. >   F Yes, I realise that (and I run VMS 7.1 here on uVax 3100's) but I was K really only talking about current hardware.  The VAX is already EOL'ed and  ( unfortunately should be considered dead.  
 -- Richard   ------------------------------  + Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2002 20:14:07 +0000 (UTC)t- From: lewis@spyder.mitre.org (Keith A. Lewis) K Subject: Re: New picture virus threatens data ... better dust off VMS mail!f. Message-ID: <aelfuf$3ei$2@newslocal.mitre.org>   JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> writes in article <3D0A5AB2.4BAF0A52@videotron.ca> dated Fri, 14 Jun 2002 17:05:57 -0400:  >re: Infected JPG files. >i+ >Something I really do not understand here.r > O >Is this an Internet Explorer bug that allows data inside a JPG file to executeeO >?  Or do all JPG viewer applications in the world have that security hole thath5 >allows code inside the compressed image to execute ?n  I No, you have to run the trojan horse program first, which changes Windows K behavior to cause it to open JPGs with some other (evil) program.  The evil K program scans every JPG for code to execute, then passes it to the originale% registered program (IE in your case).   9 >Sorry, I find this one hard to really believe/understand   = Where has McAffee has been getting their marketing advice -- -" The tobacco industry or the mafia?  + --Keith Lewis              klewis$mitre.orgi> The above may not (yet) represent the opinions of my employer.   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2002 20:17:45 GMTr1 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com>n7 Subject: Re: One of Terry's shoes seems to have dropped = Message-ID: <JtrP8.78993$6m5.62248@rwcrnsc51.ops.asp.att.net>i  = "Paul Winalski" <prune@ZAnkh-Morpork.mv.com> wrote in messagea2 news:3d0e0840.748225561@proxy.news.easynews.com...H > On Sun, 16 Jun 2002 22:30:58 GMT, "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> > wrote: >t > >And while the goodiD > >folks in the VMS group may be tempted to offer reassurances, they	 certainlyPJ > >didn't offer any useful insights into Alpha's future prior to last June 25thF > >and hence aren't particularly credible in such matters (though very likelyK > >honest in their opinions, unlike those who are actually in a position toN > >make such decisions). >2? > That's because uppermost management announced the decision tomG > us at the same time it was announced to the rest of the world.  Thoseo? > of us who worked on or around VMS didn't know Alpha was beingrF > killed, except for a few managers working on details of the contract. > with Intel, and they kept their mouths shut.  K Well, if I am the Terry to which you refer, I am currently wearing no shoesiE (despite my support for SHOES FOR INDUSTRY). I first heard of the IPFcG Consolidation four days prior to the announcement. A month prior to theeJ announcement, I was out doing Alpha pitches just like Compaq employees. IfL you have a problem with that, please contact my lawyer and put in a claim. IK will gladly reimburse every single cent you have paid me for Alpha-specificr7 advice, plus interest at the rate of 2.01386 per annum.t  K And t'is true, the deal was known only to uppermost management almost until- announcement day.1   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2002 14:12:00 -0700c& From: Greg Cagle <gregc@gregcagle.com>7 Subject: Re: One of Terry's shoes seems to have droppedo, Message-ID: <3D0E50A0.8030109@gregcagle.com>   Terry C. Shannon wrote:s? > "Paul Winalski" <prune@ZAnkh-Morpork.mv.com> wrote in message24 > news:3d0e0840.748225561@proxy.news.easynews.com... > H >>On Sun, 16 Jun 2002 22:30:58 GMT, "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> >>wrote: >> >> >>>And while the good D >>>folks in the VMS group may be tempted to offer reassurances, they >> > certainlyj > J >>>didn't offer any useful insights into Alpha's future prior to last June >> > 25th > F >>>and hence aren't particularly credible in such matters (though very >> > likely > K >>>honest in their opinions, unlike those who are actually in a position ton >>>make such decisions). >>? >>That's because uppermost management announced the decision to G >>us at the same time it was announced to the rest of the world.  Thoses? >>of us who worked on or around VMS didn't know Alpha was being F >>killed, except for a few managers working on details of the contract. >>with Intel, and they kept their mouths shut. >  > M > Well, if I am the Terry to which you refer, I am currently wearing no shoesrG > (despite my support for SHOES FOR INDUSTRY). I first heard of the IPFiI > Consolidation four days prior to the announcement. A month prior to theiL > announcement, I was out doing Alpha pitches just like Compaq employees. IfN > you have a problem with that, please contact my lawyer and put in a claim. IM > will gladly reimburse every single cent you have paid me for Alpha-specifice9 > advice, plus interest at the rate of 2.01386 per annum.a > M > And t'is true, the deal was known only to uppermost management almost untild > announcement day.  >  >    More sugar!t   8^)n -- u
 Greg Cagle gregc at gregcagle dot com   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2002 21:53:21 GMT 1 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com>-7 Subject: Re: One of Terry's shoes seems to have dropped = Message-ID: <lTsP8.62552$R61.15748@rwcrnsc52.ops.asp.att.net>   3 "Greg Cagle" <gregc@gregcagle.com> wrote in message3& news:3D0E50A0.8030109@gregcagle.com... > Terry C. Shannon wrote:fA > > "Paul Winalski" <prune@ZAnkh-Morpork.mv.com> wrote in message 6 > > news:3d0e0840.748225561@proxy.news.easynews.com... > >iJ > >>On Sun, 16 Jun 2002 22:30:58 GMT, "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>
 > >>wrote: > >> > >> > >>>And while the good F > >>>folks in the VMS group may be tempted to offer reassurances, they > >>
 > > certainlym > >pL > >>>didn't offer any useful insights into Alpha's future prior to last June > >> > > 25th > > H > >>>and hence aren't particularly credible in such matters (though very > >>
 > > likely > >dJ > >>>honest in their opinions, unlike those who are actually in a position to > >>>make such decisions). > >>A > >>That's because uppermost management announced the decision to@I > >>us at the same time it was announced to the rest of the world.  ThosesA > >>of us who worked on or around VMS didn't know Alpha was being H > >>killed, except for a few managers working on details of the contract0 > >>with Intel, and they kept their mouths shut. > >  > >lI > > Well, if I am the Terry to which you refer, I am currently wearing no  shoesaI > > (despite my support for SHOES FOR INDUSTRY). I first heard of the IPFsK > > Consolidation four days prior to the announcement. A month prior to thezK > > announcement, I was out doing Alpha pitches just like Compaq employees.  IfG > > you have a problem with that, please contact my lawyer and put in ar claim. I@ > > will gladly reimburse every single cent you have paid me for Alpha-specific; > > advice, plus interest at the rate of 2.01386 per annum.  > >eI > > And t'is true, the deal was known only to uppermost management almosta untile > > announcement day.  > >t > >c >v
 > More sugar!c >r  L THE ACCURSED WILL BE ADVISED OF HIS COMPLETE LACK OF RIGHTS UNDER THE SECRET@ CODE OF MILITARY TOUGHNESS AND WILL BE URGED TO ACT ACCORDINGLY!   George Leroy Tyrebiter Sector R   ------------------------------    Date: 17 Jun 2002 17:10:27 -0700( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)7 Subject: Re: One of Terry's shoes seems to have droppedh= Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0206171610.4563526b@posting.google.com>n  u "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote in message news:<EYnP8.291571$Oa1.24169978@bin8.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>...W? > "Paul Winalski" <prune@ZAnkh-Morpork.mv.com> wrote in message 4 > news:3d0e0840.748225561@proxy.news.easynews.com...J > > On Sun, 16 Jun 2002 22:30:58 GMT, "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>
 > > wrote: > >2 > > >And while the goodnF > > >folks in the VMS group may be tempted to offer reassurances, they >  certainlyL > > >didn't offer any useful insights into Alpha's future prior to last June >  25th.H > > >and hence aren't particularly credible in such matters (though very	 >  likelyhM > > >honest in their opinions, unlike those who are actually in a position tog > > >make such decisions). > >lA > > That's because uppermost management announced the decision to I > > us at the same time it was announced to the rest of the world.  ThoseoA > > of us who worked on or around VMS didn't know Alpha was being H > > killed, except for a few managers working on details of the contract0 > > with Intel, and they kept their mouths shut. > K > Exactly.  The point being that there's absolutely nothing that would keep2L > them from acting the same way in killing VMS should they get it into theirF > so-called minds to do so, which is why I suggested that well-meaningL > reassurances from the VMS group would not really carry much actual weight. >  > - bill  < just like their would be no reason for IBM to kill OS400 ...   ------------------------------   Date: 17 Jun 2002 17:50:23 GMT2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) Subject: Re: Open Letter to HP* Message-ID: <ael7gv$n3i$1@web1.cup.hp.com>  _ In article <ae8ff3$jcq$2@web1.cup.hp.com>, hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) writes:e :oA :  That decision [not to learn about business, from coursework or D :  otherwise -srh] would be solely to your own detriment, of course.  I   Having received some off-line email referencing the text cited above...r  :   Quoting from (part of) my reply to the off-line email...  J   "I meant the business course suggestion in all seriousness -- what I've H   learned in the courses I've reviewed is quite fascinating.  It really I   explained how this stuff works including pricing and production levels wH   (and these fixed and variable costs that somebody's always studying), H   and (IMNSHO) every engineer should be required to attend/review/study I   at least some of the available business courses and business materials.   J   Business courses can unfortunately have a bad reputation, and engineers H   and business folks can have strained relationships.  (Since the goals G   [and the perspectives - srh] of the groups can differ, some level of 8E   strain is not surprising.)  If you don't understand how this stuff s@   works, you can be at both a business and an individual career C   disadvantage -- the advice that KO got years back (when founding n!   DIGITAL) was [prescient -srh]."    	--t  F   KO was encouraged to learn about and to study business back when he 9   was first forming what would eventually become DIGITAL.h    N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------N       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.com    N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2002 19:24:44 GMT.* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> Subject: Re: Open Letter to HP? Message-ID: <0IqP8.1794$_j6.159468@bin3.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>   ? "Hoff Hoffman" <hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam> wrote in messagep$ news:ael7gv$n3i$1@web1.cup.hp.com...   ...F  G >   KO was encouraged to learn about and to study business back when he ; >   was first forming what would eventually become DIGITAL.r  L Contrasting KO's style with current cHumPaq management's, it would seem thatJ the elements of ethics were quietly dropped from the curriculum before the new breed got there.   - bill   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2002 20:46:37 GMTs1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>g Subject: Re: Open Letter to HP' Message-ID: <3D0E4E83.1D7D8EBA@fsi.net>    Bill Todd wrote: > A > "Hoff Hoffman" <hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam> wrote in messagen& > news:ael7gv$n3i$1@web1.cup.hp.com... >  > ...V > I > >   KO was encouraged to learn about and to study business back when hed= > >   was first forming what would eventually become DIGITAL.5 > N > Contrasting KO's style with current cHumPaq management's, it would seem thatL > the elements of ethics were quietly dropped from the curriculum before the > new breed got there.  F I remember not so long ago hearing about what the business schools hadD begun teaching about ethics: when you leave for work in the morning, leave your scruples at home.  9 No wonder the business world is in the state it's in, eh?e   -- 6 David J. Dachteraa dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/i   ------------------------------    Date: 17 Jun 2002 21:37:52 -0600+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young)m Subject: Re: Open Letter to HP3 Message-ID: <+VkAjYBF841u@eisner.encompasserve.org>   [ In article <3D0E4E83.1D7D8EBA@fsi.net>, "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> writes:m > Bill Todd wrote: >> iB >> "Hoff Hoffman" <hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam> wrote in message' >> news:ael7gv$n3i$1@web1.cup.hp.com...  >> f >> ... >> tJ >> >   KO was encouraged to learn about and to study business back when he> >> >   was first forming what would eventually become DIGITAL. >>  O >> Contrasting KO's style with current cHumPaq management's, it would seem thatvM >> the elements of ethics were quietly dropped from the curriculum before then >> new breed got there.e > H > I remember not so long ago hearing about what the business schools hadF > begun teaching about ethics: when you leave for work in the morning, > leave your scruples at home. > ; > No wonder the business world is in the state it's in, eh?a >  	 > 	And that wouldn't describe Ken Olsen as he is a Christian and= 	from what I read in Ultimate Entrepreneur he lives that way.r   				Rob   K "The Christian and the scientist should always seek the truth." - Ken Olsenu   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2002 18:37:19 GMT " From: Alfred Falk <falk@arc.ab.ca>P Subject: RE: OpenVMS, Volume Desktop OS (Re: Mark Gorham's Beer Bash in Reading)9 Message-ID: <Xns923080653170Cfalkarcabca@205.233.108.180>a  0 koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) wrote in, news:2Azg2hPl9lsI@eisner.encompasserve.org:    > In articleH > <BE56C50EA024184DAF48F0B9A47F5CF40266077C@kaoexc01.americas.cpqcorp.ne tM/ > >, "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@hp.com> writes: t >> tB >>>>> (And to keep things accurate I should point out that Unix is2 >> somewhat less than 10 years older than VMS.)<<< >> eD >> Perhaps it's a bit less - Anyone know when the first UNIX systemsF >> (that now form the basics of all UNIX's today) became available?=20 > H >    It's generally accepted that UNIX was first written in 1969.  It's F >    use of a two mode OS (kernel and user) and byte-stream files was H >    popular at that time.  Compare to what DEC shipped on the PDP-10 to >    see internal similarities.T  C I think 1969 is stretching things a bit.  Earliest versions were onoH PDP-7 which had a pretty limited architecture compared to what you mightH think of as useful today.  Subsequent PDP-11 versions looked pretty muchF like the current product.  First appearances outside Bell Labs were in3 1974.  Ran very nicely on PDP-11/45 with 2 RK05's. n   -- l@ ----------------------------------------------------------------A   A L B E R T A         Alfred Falk               falk@arc.ab.ca f@ R E S E A R C H         Information Systems Dept   (780)450-5185+   C O U N C I L         250 Karl Clark Roadm1                         Edmonton, Alberta, Canadae http://www.arc.ab.ca/   T6N 1E4f  http://www.arc.ab.ca/staff/falk/   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2002 16:48:21 -0500l& From: jlsue <jlsuexxxz@screaminet.com>P Subject: Re: OpenVMS, Volume Desktop OS (Re: Mark Gorham's Beer Bash in Reading)8 Message-ID: <p6msgu8lsimbgfvlp1ic1ggobmgn1tmju9@4ax.com>  B On Fri, 14 Jun 2002 13:30:58 +0000 (UTC), david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk wrote:     >OL >IPSEC will not be able to provide end-to-end encryption between systems if 5 >NAT is implemented on devices between those systems.pL >The only way around this is to use tunnel-mode IPSEC rather than end-to-endJ >IPSEC. In which case the NAT devices at each end provide the IPSEC tunnel4 >rather than the end devices behind the NAT systems. >[etc.]   F All I can tell you is that my Linksys cable/dsl router claims to allowE ipsec, and it IS a NAT box.  I make no claims on this capability as I-@ do not have an IPSEC capable NIC, nor a server with one to test.  1 Not speaking for anyone, certainly not DEC/Compaqu- (get rid of the xxxz in my address to e-mail)    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2002 15:29:59 -0400.* From: WILLIAM WEBB <WWEBB1@email.usps.gov>E Subject: RE: Ordering Freeware? (was: re: OpenVMS FAQ due next week..r- Message-ID: <0033000068390858000002L082*@MHS>   % =0A   :>The FAQ is on the FreewareCD.     :)    :How does one obtain the Freeware CDs?P  >      Please read the OpenVMS Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ)?    	 Catch-22.s   :^)    WWWebb   -----Original Message-----/ From: Info-VAX-Request@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNET # Sent: Monday, June 17, 2002 2:56 PM B To: Webb, William W Raleigh, NC; Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNETE Subject: RE: Ordering Freeware? (was: re: OpenVMS FAQ due next week..,    C In article <no3tfucf9uibae5ooogljm204bifgc1nui@4ax.com>, Mr Beermat H <beermat.geo@yahoo.com> writes: :On Wed, 05 Jun 2002 19:42:30 GMT, "war= rene sander"n" :<warren.sander@compaq.com> wrote: :h :>The FAQ is on the FreewareCD.  :-& :How does one obtain the Freeware CDs?  H   Please read the OpenVMS Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ)?  Buried amo= ngH   the many FAQ sections, you will find download pointers and ordering a= ndF   distribution information for the Freeware.  The specific OpenVMS FAQ@   section of interest here is the one entitled "Where can I find,   freeware/shareware/software for OpenVMS?".  H   You can download the entire OpenVMS FAQ as a single text file -- this=  B   makes for rather easier text searches.  (The HTML is rather more   difficult to navigate.):        --d  F   Because the FAQ is available via means other than the Freeware, this6   answer only *appears* to be a circular citation. :-)        --A  H   If I were feeling particularly ambitious, I'd add a hotlink from each=  E   OpenVMS FAQ citation of the Freeware over to a (new) FAQ section onuF   the OpenVMS Freeware distributions and downloads details -- now thatH   I can actually reasonably maintain the existing intra-FAQ links, I ca= na!   consider adding (more of) them.   H  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> ----------------------= ------- H       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.= comaH  --------------------------- pure personal opinion --------------------= -------iH    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.de= c.com=   ------------------------------   Date: 17 Jun 2002 18:21:55 GMT2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)G Subject: Re: Ordering Freeware? (was: re: OpenVMS FAQ due next week...)a* Message-ID: <ael9c3$n3i$2@web1.cup.hp.com>  c In article <no3tfucf9uibae5ooogljm204bifgc1nui@4ax.com>, Mr Beermat <beermat.geo@yahoo.com> writes:r2 :On Wed, 05 Jun 2002 19:42:30 GMT, "warren sander"" :<warren.sander@compaq.com> wrote: :n :>The FAQ is on the FreewareCD.a :s& :How does one obtain the Freeware CDs?  J   Please read the OpenVMS Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ)?  Buried among J   the many FAQ sections, you will find download pointers and ordering and G   distribution information for the Freeware.  The specific OpenVMS FAQ nA   section of interest here is the one entitled "Where can I find e,   freeware/shareware/software for OpenVMS?".  H   You can download the entire OpenVMS FAQ as a single text file -- this B   makes for rather easier text searches.  (The HTML is rather more   difficult to navigate.)m   	--   F   Because the FAQ is available via means other than the Freeware, this6   answer only *appears* to be a circular citation. :-)   	--   H   If I were feeling particularly ambitious, I'd add a hotlink from each F   OpenVMS FAQ citation of the Freeware over to a (new) FAQ section on F   the OpenVMS Freeware distributions and downloads details -- now thatI   I can actually reasonably maintain the existing intra-FAQ links, I can a!   consider adding (more of) them.   N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------N       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.com    N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2002 19:37:25 -0400aK From: "Encompass - HP Enterprise Technology Symposium" <KilleenJ@toast.net>c) Subject: Quick Poll - Fall HP Conferencesa/ Message-ID: <ugssm2kv83o4be@corp.supernews.com>a  H After reading the material below which conference would you attended and why?  ; Do you see any differences between the conferences and why?3  1 -------------------------------------------------w  A The Most Comprehensive Educational, Training, and Peer Networking $ Opportunities Ever Available to You!  L Looking for a training forum to get a handle on how to leverage products andF services from the new HP? This fall you will have an incredible set ofA qualified conferences to choose from. Whether you're a front-line E technologist or a senior IT manager, whether your expertise lies witheL pre-merger HP or Compaq technologies, there's a conference designed for yourI specific needs. The only wrong choice would be to not attend one. We knowrL you have questions about the future directions of HP computing - and we haveK the answers you need. Now more than ever, you need the insight and know-howe, readily available only through these events.    = HP Enterprise Technical Symposium and Technical Exchange 2002e The Future is Here October 6-11, St. Louis, MO.  K The HP Enterprise Technical Symposium & Encompass Technical Exchange is the I comprehensive conference focused on the full breadth of HP Technology fortJ Technologists. This event is for users of StorageWorks, OpenVMS, ProLiant,I Tru64 UNIX, HP-UX, Linux, Novell, Oracle and Microsoft Technologies. This I Symposium program contains in-depth technical breakout sessions, hands-on>H workshops, a HP Technology Exchange Lab, "Meet the Experts" discussions,I NDA/roadmap sessions, and Pre-Symposium Seminars. The Encompass TechnicaldL Exchange is the trade show that supports the Symposium featuring HP and HP'sK business partners exhibiting technical solutions. Throughout the conferenceo@ program, there will be a special perspective provided for the ITJ technologist coming from pre-merger Compaq technology. Hewlett-Packard andD the Encompass User Group jointly produce the HP Enterprise TechnicalK Symposium. Conference information is available at http://www.hpets2002.com.      HP World Conference & Expo 2002a Your Road Map for Growth" September 23 - 27, Los Angeles, CA  G The HP World Conference & Expo is the largest solutions-oriented annualeH gathering of HP IT professionals. Produced by HP customers, the five-dayG event will focus on training seminars, sessions, tutorials, panels, andnE networking opportunities covering HP-UX, Linux, Windows, MPE, StorageLG Management, Security, .Net, OpenView, IT Management, High Availability,IH e3000 Migration, Disaster Recovery, Mobility and Internet Solutions. TheL renowned expo will feature more than 150 exhibitors, presenting the productsK and solutions shaping the HP marketplace. Visit http://www.hpworld.com/ for F detailed conference and expo information. HP World 2002 is produced byD Interex - The International Association of Hewlett-Packard Computing Professionals.     InterWorks 20027$ The HP Technical Training Conference" September 23 - 27, Los Angeles, CA  J InterWorks 2002 is a technical conference focused for the past 12 years onB training for the deployment and administration of HP-UX and Linux.L Conference tutorials, seminars and paper presentations will provide in-depthI training including: advanced kernel tuning techniques, storage and volume K management including NAS and SAN architectures, software development in all C major languages, system tuning and optimization, high availability,yF infrastructure architecture and design, administration and maintenanceK techniques for complex environments and methodology and deployment of largepH computational clusters. InterWorks 2002 is co-located with HP World 2002I Conference & Expo. For more information visit www.interex.org/interworks.aD InterWorks is produced by Interex - The International Association of' Hewlett-Packard Computing Professionalst     ITUG Summit 2002 The Best and the Brightest  27-31 October 2002, San Jose, CA  H HP NonStop focused IT Professionals should consider the ITUG Summit 2002K their first and best conference choice. The Summit is the leading event foroH technical and product education on high-end business critical solutions,I including NonStop platforms, Zero Latency Enterprise solutions, and more. J Visit www.itug.org/events/summit02/index.cfm for the latest information on this event.a    # Which Conference Should You Attend?a  J While each event delivers exceptional value focused on the future with theK latest information on HP product direction, distinct program benefits mightcL help facilitate your decision on which provides the greatest return for your
 organization:n  L * HP World 2002 Conference & Expo provides you solid insight into the new HP* plus a pre-merger HP specific perspective.  G * InterWorks, the systems administrator's conference, provides you withr8 continued training and certification on HP-UX and Linux.  G * The HP Enterprise Technical Symposium and Technical Exchange stronglyeK focuses on the new HP and also is being built to meet the specific needs of 7 the enterprise computing pre-merger Compaq technologiste  K * The ITUG Summit is tailor-made for professionals involved with HP NonStop  and related solutions.  H The question is not whether you should attend - but which one you should attend!s   ------------------------------    Date: 17 Jun 2002 15:46:36 -0700. From: SPAMSINK2001@YAHOO.COM (Alan E. Feldman)+ Subject: Re: rooted devices and /TRANS=CONCo= Message-ID: <343f30ae.0206171446.34b699a3@posting.google.com>h  Y briggs@encompasserve.org wrote in message news:<wC421sGuh1OX@eisner.encompasserve.org>...op > In article <343f30ae.0206141252.445552de@posting.google.com>, SPAMSINK2001@YAHOO.COM (Alan E. Feldman) writes:J > > Now I agree that omitting the trailing colon when the equivalence nameH > > is also another logical name should not necessarily cause a problem.J > > However, in practice, you are (AFAIK) always okay when you include theJ > > trailing colon except for logical names that translate to queue names.J > > (OTOH, I've never had a problem using "$ DEFINE SYS$INPUT SYS$COMMAND"A > > for example, though it works the same with a trailing colon.)- > K > Two things agitate to make $ DEFINE SYS$INPUT SYS$COMMAND a special case.o > D > 1.  SYS$INPUT is PPF logical name.  When you define an equivalenceH > name for it, DCL attempts to open that name as an RMS file and creates> > a PPF style equivalence name for the resulting input stream. > , >     This RMS $OPEN operation brings us to: > I > 2.  SYS$COMMAND is a PPF logical name.  If it's RMS doing the recursive E > logical name expansion, it's the IFI buried in the four byte prefix B > in the equivalence name that is important.  The remainder of the > text there is irrelevant.r >  > 	John Briggs    < OK, so when you use DEFINE to define a logical name, and the. equivalence name is also another logical name,  F 1.) include a trailing colon if it will resolve to part of a file-spec and not a PPF.  B 2.) do not use a trailing colon if it will resolve to a queue name  D 3.) for PPF's, it doesn't matter whether you use a trailing colon or not.  * 4.) for mail addresses, I haven't checked.   Disclaimer: JMHO Alan E. Feldmanl" afeldman atski gfigroup dotski com   ------------------------------    Date: 17 Jun 2002 16:03:26 -0700. From: SPAMSINK2001@YAHOO.COM (Alan E. Feldman)+ Subject: Re: rooted devices and /TRANS=CONCt< Message-ID: <343f30ae.0206171503.2f5d6f7@posting.google.com>   Comments interspersed below. w    ` "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote in message news:<3D0A9B55.336DEE2B@fsi.net>... > "Alan E. Feldman" wrote: > > d > > "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote in message news:<3D095F1D.8791DAEC@fsi.net>... > > > Phillip Helbig wrote:u > > > >rJ > > > > > It is important to use a trailing colon. Only then does it work: > > > >/ > > > > OK, but WHY? > > >lH > > > Well, you might be able to illustrate that for yourself. Try this: > > >-B > > > $ sy0 = f$getdvi( "sys$sysdevice", "alldevnam" ) - "_" - ":"% > > > $ dflt = f$environ( "default" ):- > > > $ write sys$output f$parse( sy0, dflt )1 > > > $ define sy0 &sy0g/ > > > $ write sys$output f$parse( "sy0", dflt )v > > > $ sy0 = sy0 + ":"o- > > > $ write sys$output f$parse( sy0, dflt )i > > > $ define sy0 &sy0m/ > > > $ write sys$output f$parse( "sy0", dflt )w > > > $ deas sy0 > > ? > > This works only if your default is an existing directory on  > > sys$sysdevice. > D > Exactly the point. Let's look at the output on my hobbyist's Alpha
 > machine: > > > $ sy0 = f$getdvi( "sys$sysdevice", "alldevnam" ) - "_" - ":"! > $ dflt = f$environ( "default" ) ) > $ write sys$output f$parse( sy0, dflt )r! > DKA0:[DDACHTERA]DJAS01$DKA300.;t > $ define sy0 &sy0e+ > $ write sys$output f$parse( "sy0", dflt )u! > DKA0:[DDACHTERA]DJAS01$DKA300.;g > H > In the above, note that the translation of the logical name is treatedJ > as a filename rather than the device name, as it was intended. So, let's4 > add the colon onto the end and see what happens... >  > $ sy0 = sy0 + ":"h) > $ write sys$output f$parse( sy0, dflt )  >  > $ define sy0 &sy0 = > %DCL-I-SUPERSEDE, previous value of SY0 has been superseded + > $ write sys$output f$parse( "sy0", dflt )- >  > $ deas sy0 > C > Hhmmm... F$PARSE() returns a null string - *BUT* that's what it'sOF > SUPPOSED to do! Now that "SY0" means "DJAS01@DKA300:" (a device nameE > instead of a potential filename, the entire expression equates to apE > device/path that does not exist; hence, the function returns a nullr	 > string!     E This has nothing to do with why you need a colon with /trans=conc but.< not without. None of your examples even include /TRANS=CONC.     > ) > > But it does not address the question.l > D > Well, yes it does. Not convinced? Let's carry that a step further: >  > $ set vera > $ @dfn > $ set noon> > $ sy0 = f$getdvi( "sys$sysdevice", "alldevnam" ) - "_" - ":"! > $ dflt = f$environ( "default" )l) > $ write sys$output f$parse( sy0, dflt )t! > DKA0:[DDACHTERA]DJAS01$DKA300.;  > $ define sy0 &sy0 + > $ write sys$output f$parse( "sy0", dflt ) ! > DKA0:[DDACHTERA]DJAS01$DKA300.;m" > $ copy/log nla0: sy0:sample.file: > %COPY-F-OPENOUT, error opening SY0:SAMPLE.FILE as output  > -RMS-F-FNM, error in file name > $! > $ sy0 = sy0 + ":"D) > $ write sys$output f$parse( sy0, dflt )  >  > $ define sy0 &sy0t= > %DCL-I-SUPERSEDE, previous value of SY0 has been supersededp+ > $ write sys$output f$parse( "sy0", dflt )a > " > $ copy/log nla0: sy0:sample.fileI > %COPY-E-OPENOUT, error opening DJAS01$DKA300:[DDACHTERA]SAMPLE.FILE; as- > output! > -RMS-E-DNF, directory not found-$ > -SYSTEM-W-NOSUCHFILE, no such file > $ deas sy0    C All this does is show that you need a colon to distinguish a device8@ from a filename. It does not show why you can sometimes get awayD without using the colon ***when the equivalence name is also another logical name***.     >  > > The question is-G > > why you need a trailing colon for the case where you are defining am, > > logical name to be another logical name. > B > ...and that also answers the question, just in a different way.  > " > Now, let's look at your example: >  > >  > > Example: > >  > >     $ DEFINE AAA BBB > >     $ DEFINE BBB DKA0: > > I > > Why should you need a trailing colon in the first command? This workse( > > for some situations, but not others. > >  > > Example: > >  > > $ SL AAA( > >    "AAA" = "BBB" (LNM$PROCESS_TABLE), > > 1  "BBB" = "DKA100:" (LNM$PROCESS_TABLE) > > $ SET DEF AAA:[FELDMAN]  > > $ DIREC/TOTALu > >  > > Directory DKA100:[FELDMAN] > >  > > Total of 74 files.  > > $ DEFINE AAA BBB /TRANS=CONC? > > %DCL-I-SUPERSEDE, previous value of AAA has been supersededb > > $ DIREC/TOTALm- > > %DIRECT-E-OPENIN, error opening  as inputCE > > -RMS-F-DEV, error in device name or inappropriate device type for,
 > > operationD > > $ SHOW DEF > >   AAA:[FELDMAN]y/ > > %DCL-I-INVDEF, AAA:[FELDMAN] does not exist- > G > Hhmmm. We've seen *THAT* before, have we not? (Remember how F$PARSE()a& > behaved above? ...the COPY command?)     What's your point?    ! > > $ DEFINE AAA BBB: /TRANS=CONC0? > > %DCL-I-SUPERSEDE, previous value of AAA has been supersedede > > $ sh def > >   AAA:[FELDMAN]  > > $ DIREC/TOTAL  > >  > > Directory AAA:[FELDMAN]u > >  > > Total of 74 files. > > @ > > Here we see that omitting the colon works fine until you addE > > /TRANS=CONC. If you put the trailing colon back, then /TRANS=CONC:@ > > works fine. Why? That is what the original poster is asking. > H > ...and the other two examples also answered the question. Your exampleI > illustrates the same anomaly, just from yet another perspective. Six of  > one, half dozen of another.s    ) Nope. You have not answered the question.e   > F > > Then there is the famous DEFINE HOME SYS$LOGIN bug for SET DEFAULT- > > which I already discussed in this thread.D > F > Note, whoever, that SYS$LOGIN is not only already a logical name, itJ > indicates both a device and a directory path. I believe you'll find that* > *THIS* distinction makes the difference.     Difference for what?    
 > Observe: >  > $ sh log sys$sylogin= >    "SYS$SYLOGIN" = "SYS$MANAGER:SYLOGIN" (LNM$SYSTEM_TABLE)  > $ type sys$syloginI > %TYPE-W-SEARCHFAIL, error searching for SYS$COMMON:[SYSMGR]SYLOGIN.LIS;a > -RMS-E-FNF, file not found > / > You expected that, right? Now check this out:g >  > $ type sys$sylogin:.com  > $!VERIFY = 'F$VERIFY(0)a' > $!IF F$MODE() .EQS. "OTHER" THEN EXITrC > $! Remove the comments from the above commands to support the 'r'w
 > commandsJ > $! when using all OpenVMS TCP/IP products.  Consult vendor documentation > forh > $! more information. > [snip] >  > Does THAT help?     - No, you still haven't addressed the question.     E > ...or do you want the machine to do what you meant and not what youc > said?      I'll try again.    When you do something like       $ DEFINE AAA BBB     $ DEFINE BBB DKA100:  3 certain commands work fine, like DIR AAA:[FELDMAN].O   But, when you do        $ DEFINE AAA BBB /TRANS=CONC     $ DEFINE BBB DKA100:  * nothing works for AAA. Change the above to  !     $ DEFINE AAA BBB: /TRANS=CONCi     $ DEFINE BBB DKA100:  D and everything works fine. OK? Nothing you've posted addresses that.  A The result is what I've already posted and that is to include thecC colon for such situations, and not to include the colon if AAA willeB ultimately translate to a queue name, and not to worry if AAA will resolve to a PPF.n  D What I don't understand is why VMS is "smart enough" to do the rightD thing without /TRANS=CONC and without the colon for some commands at? least, but cannot to the right thing for any command if you usenA /TRANS=CONC and don't include the colon, BOTH FOR CASES WHERE THEe. EQUIVALENCE NAME IS ALSO ANOTHER LOGICAL NAME.  F I guess VMS is "smart enough" in these certain cases without the colon< only by fortuitousness (or should that be "by serendipity"?)   Whew.i   Disclaimer: JMHO Alan E. Feldman  afeldman gfigroup coma   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 18 Jun 2002 01:46:58 GMTn1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> + Subject: Re: rooted devices and /TRANS=CONCt' Message-ID: <3D0E94E4.28AAA3E5@fsi.net>-   "Alan E. Feldman" wrote: >  > Comments interspersed below. > b > "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote in message news:<3D0A9B55.336DEE2B@fsi.net>...
 > > [snip]E > > Hhmmm... F$PARSE() returns a null string - *BUT* that's what it'seH > > SUPPOSED to do! Now that "SY0" means "DJAS01@DKA300:" (a device nameG > > instead of a potential filename, the entire expression equates to atG > > device/path that does not exist; hence, the function returns a null  > > string!- > G > This has nothing to do with why you need a colon with /trans=conc but > > not without. None of your examples even include /TRANS=CONC.  A Because it makes no difference. If you don't correctly format the-E translation (read: "equivalence") string, the /TRANSLATION_ATTRIBUTESaD (if any, other than the default) make no fundamental difference. TheD difference you'll see, if any, will be determined by how the subject2 (command) program processes its parameter strings.   > >a+ > > > But it does not address the question.b > >pF > > Well, yes it does. Not convinced? Let's carry that a step further: > >o
 > > $ set ver 
 > > $ @dfn > > $ set noon@ > > $ sy0 = f$getdvi( "sys$sysdevice", "alldevnam" ) - "_" - ":"# > > $ dflt = f$environ( "default" )o+ > > $ write sys$output f$parse( sy0, dflt )e# > > DKA0:[DDACHTERA]DJAS01$DKA300.;a > > $ define sy0 &sy0n- > > $ write sys$output f$parse( "sy0", dflt )o# > > DKA0:[DDACHTERA]DJAS01$DKA300.; $ > > $ copy/log nla0: sy0:sample.file< > > %COPY-F-OPENOUT, error opening SY0:SAMPLE.FILE as output" > > -RMS-F-FNM, error in file name > > $! > > $ sy0 = sy0 + ":"h+ > > $ write sys$output f$parse( sy0, dflt )r > >a > > $ define sy0 &sy0 ? > > %DCL-I-SUPERSEDE, previous value of SY0 has been supersededo- > > $ write sys$output f$parse( "sy0", dflt )a > >e$ > > $ copy/log nla0: sy0:sample.fileK > > %COPY-E-OPENOUT, error opening DJAS01$DKA300:[DDACHTERA]SAMPLE.FILE; asd
 > > output# > > -RMS-E-DNF, directory not foundy& > > -SYSTEM-W-NOSUCHFILE, no such file > > $ deas sy0 > E > All this does is show that you need a colon to distinguish a deviceo > from a filename.  ( *EXACTLY* !!!! NOW you're catching on...  1 > It does not show why you can sometimes get awaycF > without using the colon ***when the equivalence name is also another > logical name***.  A Because it makes no fundamental difference. All you're doing withcB /TRANS=CONC is activating another portion of the code stream(s) toC illustrate the result of an improperly formatted translation (read:o. "equivalence") string in another circumstance.   > >o > > > The question is-I > > > why you need a trailing colon for the case where you are defining aa. > > > logical name to be another logical name. > >eC > > ...and that also answers the question, just in a different way.o > >g$ > > Now, let's look at your example: > >o > > >o > > > Example: > > >c > > >     $ DEFINE AAA BBB > > >     $ DEFINE BBB DKA0: > > > K > > > Why should you need a trailing colon in the first command? This worksC* > > > for some situations, but not others. > > >e > > > Example: > > >r > > > $ SL AAA* > > >    "AAA" = "BBB" (LNM$PROCESS_TABLE). > > > 1  "BBB" = "DKA100:" (LNM$PROCESS_TABLE) > > > $ SET DEF AAA:[FELDMAN]o > > > $ DIREC/TOTALa > > >h  > > > Directory DKA100:[FELDMAN] > > >  > > > Total of 74 files." > > > $ DEFINE AAA BBB /TRANS=CONCA > > > %DCL-I-SUPERSEDE, previous value of AAA has been supersededv > > > $ DIREC/TOTALi/ > > > %DIRECT-E-OPENIN, error opening  as input G > > > -RMS-F-DEV, error in device name or inappropriate device type fore > > > operationa > > > $ SHOW DEF > > >   AAA:[FELDMAN] 1 > > > %DCL-I-INVDEF, AAA:[FELDMAN] does not existh > >dI > > Hhmmm. We've seen *THAT* before, have we not? (Remember how F$PARSE()m( > > behaved above? ...the COPY command?) >  > What's your point?  . I think you may be catching on now. Read on...  # > > > $ DEFINE AAA BBB: /TRANS=CONCiA > > > %DCL-I-SUPERSEDE, previous value of AAA has been superseded  > > > $ sh def > > >   AAA:[FELDMAN]n > > > $ DIREC/TOTALc > > >c > > > Directory AAA:[FELDMAN]1 > > >  > > > Total of 74 files. > > >nB > > > Here we see that omitting the colon works fine until you addG > > > /TRANS=CONC. If you put the trailing colon back, then /TRANS=CONCcB > > > works fine. Why? That is what the original poster is asking. > >SJ > > ...and the other two examples also answered the question. Your exampleK > > illustrates the same anomaly, just from yet another perspective. Six ofn > > one, half dozen of another.t > + > Nope. You have not answered the question.e  ! Yes, I have. Re-read the above...o   > >oH > > > Then there is the famous DEFINE HOME SYS$LOGIN bug for SET DEFAULT/ > > > which I already discussed in this thread.r > >eH > > Note, whoever, that SYS$LOGIN is not only already a logical name, itL > > indicates both a device and a directory path. I believe you'll find that, > > *THIS* distinction makes the difference. >  > Difference for what?   Did you read what follows?   > > Observe: > >0 > > $ sh log sys$sylogin? > >    "SYS$SYLOGIN" = "SYS$MANAGER:SYLOGIN" (LNM$SYSTEM_TABLE)  > > $ type sys$syloginK > > %TYPE-W-SEARCHFAIL, error searching for SYS$COMMON:[SYSMGR]SYLOGIN.LIS;e > > -RMS-E-FNF, file not found > > 1 > > You expected that, right? Now check this out:e > >s > > $ type sys$sylogin:.coma > > $!VERIFY = 'F$VERIFY(0) ) > > $!IF F$MODE() .EQS. "OTHER" THEN EXITxE > > $! Remove the comments from the above commands to support the 'r'P > > commandsL > > $! when using all OpenVMS TCP/IP products.  Consult vendor documentation > > for  > > $! more information.
 > > [snip] > >n > > Does THAT help?o > / > No, you still haven't addressed the question.e  $ Well, yes I have. Re-read the above.  G > > ...or do you want the machine to do what you meant and not what youy	 > > said?o >  > I'll try again.r >  > When you do something like >  >     $ DEFINE AAA BBB >     $ DEFINE BBB DKA100: > 5 > certain commands work fine, like DIR AAA:[FELDMAN].u  C ...but not all commands "work fine". There's you're first clue that C you're doing something "wrong", or at least maybe not quite kosher.o   > But, when you do > " >     $ DEFINE AAA BBB /TRANS=CONC >     $ DEFINE BBB DKA100: > , > nothing works for AAA. Change the above to > # >     $ DEFINE AAA BBB: /TRANS=CONCe >     $ DEFINE BBB DKA100: > F > and everything works fine. OK? Nothing you've posted addresses that.  4 Well, yes it does. Let's try putting it another way:  E You "meant" "BBB:", but what you told it was "BBB". No matter how youeE slice it, BBB[FELDMAN]myfile.txt is not now, never has been and never0H will be a valid filespec string. The fact that "BBB" is itself a logical8 name makes no fundamental difference, and neither do the /TRANSLATION_ATTRIBUTES.  C > The result is what I've already posted and that is to include the E > colon for such situations, and not to include the colon if AAA willuD > ultimately translate to a queue name, and not to worry if AAA will > resolve to a PPF.  > F > What I don't understand is why VMS is "smart enough" to do the rightF > thing without /TRANS=CONC and without the colon for some commands atA > least, but cannot to the right thing for any command if you use C > /TRANS=CONC and don't include the colon, BOTH FOR CASES WHERE THEe0 > EQUIVALENCE NAME IS ALSO ANOTHER LOGICAL NAME.  H I hope the example above deepens your insight to the point where you can start to grasp the concept.   H > I guess VMS is "smart enough" in these certain cases without the colon> > only by fortuitousness (or should that be "by serendipity"?)  $ I'd say it's more like the way that:    $ WRITE SYS$OUTPUT "ALAN FELDMAN  	 ...and...   ! $ WRITE SYS$OUTPUT "ALAN FELDMAN"e  ? ...are functionally identical, even though the first example issH syntactically incorrect (unbalanced quotes). It's just the nature of the
 DCL beast.  G If you need a more nuts-and-bolts explanation, you might try writing topE Brian Schenkenberger off-line and arrange to visit him and review hiseE OpenVMS source listings CDs to find out *EXACTLY* why things work thet way they work.  D On the other hand, if you make it a rule to *ALWAYS* properly formatH your translation (read: "equivalence") strings, you'll be a much happier camper in the long run.7  @ BTW, I've been emphasising "equivalence" for a reason. Grasp theF concept, and you're home free (unless you're British, then "Bob's your Uncle")!  H I was looking for another example to underscore the point, but instead I turned up more strangeness:f   DJAS01::DDACHTERA$ def djd dka09# DJAS01::DDACHTERA$ dir djd:[000000]F! %DIRECT-W-NOFILES, no files found / DJAS01::DDACHTERA$ say f$parse( "djd:[000000]")e DKA0:[000000]DKA0.;A( DJAS01::DDACHTERA$ def djd sys$sysdevice; %DCL-I-SUPERSEDE, previous value of DJD has been supersededo# DJAS01::DDACHTERA$ dir djd:[000000]     Directory SYS$SYSDEVICE:[000000]  > 000000.DIR;1               1/4        22-MAY-2000 14:48:08.28  (RWED,RWED,RE,E)> BACKUP.SYS;1               0/0        22-MAY-2000 14:48:08.28  (RWED,RWED,RE,)r> BADBLK.SYS;1               0/0        22-MAY-2000 14:48:08.28  (RWED,RWED,RE,)s> BADLOG.SYS;1               0/0        22-MAY-2000 14:48:08.28  (RWED,RWED,RE,):> BITMAP.SYS;1             252/252      22-MAY-2000 14:48:08.28  (RWED,RWED,RE,) > CONTIN.SYS;1               0/0        22-MAY-2000 14:48:08.28  (RWED,RWED,RE,)r> CORIMG.SYS;1               0/0        22-MAY-2000 14:48:08.28  (RWED,RWED,RE,)x> INDEXF.SYS;1           39691/39692    22-MAY-2000 14:48:08.28  (RWED,RWED,RE,) > MULTINET.DIR;1             1/4         5-JUL-2000 16:44:56.11  (RWE,RWE,RE,E)> SECURITY.SYS;1             1/8        22-MAY-2000 14:48:08.28  (RWED,RWED,RE,)]> SYS0.DIR;1                 1/4        22-MAY-2000 14:48:11.87  (RWE,RWE,RE,RE) > VMS$COMMON.DIR;1           3/4        22-MAY-2000 14:48:38.52  (RWE,RWE,RE,RE)t> VOLSET.SYS;1               0/0        22-MAY-2000 14:48:08.28  (RWED,RWED,RE,)a  & Total of 13 files, 39950/39968 blocks.* DJAS01::DDACHTERA$ sh log/fu sys$sysdeviceA    "SYS$SYSDEVICE" [exec] = "DJAS01$DKA300:" [concealed,terminal]  (LNM$SYSTEM_TABLE)) DJAS01::DDACHTERA$ def djd dka0/tran=conc ; %DCL-I-SUPERSEDE, previous value of DJD has been superseded,# DJAS01::DDACHTERA$ dir djd:[000000]m5 %DIRECT-E-OPENIN, error opening DJD:[000000] as inputtA -RMS-F-DEV, error in device name or inappropriate device type ford	 operation A DJAS01::DDACHTERA$ say f$parse( "djd:[000000]",,,, "syntax_only")    DJAS01::DDACHTERA$ d  F Now, don't *THAT* just beat all??!! Even when the logical name equatesD to a(n unterminated) device name instead of another logical name, it@ *STILL* doesn't work! I guess what I mean and what I say are two different things, eh?r  B In the end, I guess ya just gotta properly format your equivalence strings.  G Summa num batch, fargin' bastidge, miserable corksucker, stupid icehole  thing, anyways...l   -- " David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/i   ------------------------------  + Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2002 20:05:45 +0000 (UTC)S- From: lewis@spyder.mitre.org (Keith A. Lewis)e4 Subject: SCAREWARE (was New picture virus threatens). Message-ID: <aelfep$3ei$1@newslocal.mitre.org>  G Scareware, created by the anti-virus companies to trick the masses intoeJ thinking they need "protection" in order to view pics.  Just don't run the damn executable!   bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski) writes in article <d7791aa1.0206140554.2967bd9f@posting.google.com> dated 14 Jun 2002 06:54:32 -0700:D >The virus still needs modifications to become dangerous, because itF >arrives as a program file that can be attached to an e-mail. Security< >experts always warn against opening programs sent as e-mail
 >attachments.o >aC >Once run, the file installs a program onto the victim's hard drive C >that can infect pictures. When a computer user clicks on a picture D >file with the extension .JPG a common picture file found on the Web? >the picture is infected before it appears. Because the pictureaB >displays normally, Gullotto said, the victim may not know there's >anything wrong.  + --Keith Lewis              klewis$mitre.org > The above may not (yet) represent the opinions of my employer.   ------------------------------    Date: 17 Jun 2002 17:15:46 -0700( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski); Subject: Re: SSH v2 (was Re: OpenVMS, Volume Desktop OS...)R= Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0206171615.7c736a67@posting.google.com>   Q david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk wrote in message news:<aekv37$2eg$1@aquila.mdx.ac.uk>... j > In article <d7791aa1.0206151519.6d72e56a@posting.google.com>, bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski) writes:T > >david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk wrote in message news:<aefnki$977$1@aquila.mdx.ac.uk>... > >> In article <craig.berry-D5C343.14462614062002@news.directvinternet.com>, "Craig A. Berry" <craig.berry@nospam.SignalTreeSolutions.com> writes:A > >> >In article  C > >> ><craig.berry-DE7718.13465107062002@news.directvinternet.com>, K > >> > "Craig A. Berry" <craig.berry@nospam.SignalTreeSolutions.com> wrote:? > >> >M > >> >> In article <adqst1$am3$1@aquila.mdx.ac.uk>, david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk a > >> >> wrote: > >> >> N > >> >I just noticed on the Process Software site today that they now have an : > >> >SSH product for TCP/IP Services 4.2 and later.  See M > >> ><http://www.process.com/tcpip/ssh.html>.  So that's good news, but the  K > >> >cost of an add-on will probably be a real difficulty for some of the  F > >> >places, like universities, that are most eager to implement SSH  > >> >everywhere.  > >> aR > >> Yes cost maybe an issue. On the otherhand HPQ's DEC TCPIP Services version ofP > >> SSH v2 when it eventually appears is very unlikely to be backported to workN > >> with UCX V4.2 or VMS 6.2. Certainly we have a number of systems which for. > >> various reasons are stuck at that level. T > >> I'll probably be contacting our local distributor Essential Computing in the UKT > >> to inquire about the product and whether there are any educational discounts on > >> Monday. > >>   > >> David Webba > >> VMS and Unix team leaderl	 > >> CCSSg > >> Middlesex UniversityY > >AG > >I think Process software gives hobbyist and educational licenses forAC > >TCPware ... check it out ... it runs crisper than the others ...F > N > 1) Politically getting an SSH addon for DEC TCPIP Services will probably be I > easier than getting the currently working TCPIP stack totally replaced.R > L > 2) As I recall the process webpages did have some good education deals forQ >    US education establishments. I'm not sure they were ever available in the UKa >    to UK Universities. > K > 3) Even if I wanted to replace DEC TCPIP Services I'm not sure I'd choose K >    TCPWARE. I Used it admittedly many many years ago and didn't like it'sn >    management interface. >  > David Webb > VMS and Unix team leader > CCSS > Middlesex University  E TCPware's management interface is VMS like, as a matter of fact, onceOG you understand the com's well enough, you don't even need an interface.BG If you do, it works just fine, and if you need gui, they have an add-onAG interface you can purchase, and because it is the only ip stack for vms.G based on the vms kernel, it runs crisper, and switching your stack fromeF ucx to tcpware to multinet to tcpware is not that hard ... been there,
 done that ...h   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2002 17:59:00 GMTr From: system@SendSpamHere.ORGF: Subject: Re: Sun is on the way out!  Only HP and IBM left!0 Message-ID: <00A0F98F.988D7400@SendSpamHere.ORG>  f In article <3D0E1EA7.9211A716@firstdbasource.com>, Michael Austin <maustin@firstdbasource.com> writes:) >Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy wrote:O5 >> Bob as you know the only bogus claims made on thisG: >> group are when people start talking about Alpha Servers7 >> being high performance systems. You know because youl7 >> were asked to come up with examples that proved thisO8 >> claim and you didn't. Don't be too downhearted a long >- >-H >Not to get in the way of your current, ongoing battle, but, what planetI >do you live on Andrew -- I would think that the Super Computer center in   J Not a planet, Michael.  He's from the Sun.  My guess is that his residence6 has cause his sweetbreads to be rather well-baked.  ;)   --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM             F5   "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?" e   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2002 19:42:23 GMTe* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>: Subject: Re: Sun is on the way out!  Only HP and IBM left!B Message-ID: <zYqP8.262560$%y.22685840@bin4.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>  > "Michael Austin" <maustin@firstdbasource.com> wrote in message, news:3D0E1EA7.9211A716@firstdbasource.com...* > Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy wrote:6 > > Bob as you know the only bogus claims made on this; > > group are when people start talking about Alpha Serversa8 > > being high performance systems. You know because you8 > > were asked to come up with examples that proved this9 > > claim and you didn't. Don't be too downhearted a longa >e > I > Not to get in the way of your current, ongoing battle, but, what planeteJ > do you live on Andrew -- I would think that the Super Computer center inF > Pitt would qualify as a high performance "ALPHA" system as would theE > computing center out there in the desert at a "secret" governmental J > agency. And IIRC they  are rated as "The fastest systems on the planet". >.I > Ever wonder why SPARC/Slowaris wasn't included in the RFP? too slow and  > definately not scalable.  I Possibly my memory is faulty, but my impression was that *all* the recenteL Alpha supercomputing wins were based on bunches of ES45 boxes, not GS-seriesK hardware.  With a limit of 4 processors, ES45s hardly qualify as 'scalable' J (unless you wish to extend that description to bunches of Intel servers asE well), and while they certainly qualify as 'servers' they don't coveroH anything like the full range of that market segment (if they did, the GS series wouldn't exist).L  G Andrew seems to characterize the important part of the server market asUJ 8-processor-and-up boxes (and it's certainly the highest-margin part), andG admits that ES45s themselves are competitive (which is understating the!L case, but about as much as one can expect from a competitor).  To refute himH effectively, you really need to come up with evidence that the GS seriesK out-performs Sun's larger offerings (unless you want to start sounding likee Bob).w   - bill   ------------------------------   Date: 17 Jun 2002 19:28:46 GMT2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman): Subject: Re: Sun is on the way out!  Only HP and IBM left!* Message-ID: <aeld9e$n3i$4@web1.cup.hp.com>   In article <ael4gf$m87$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <andrew_nospam.harrison_remove_this@sun#.com> writes: :s :s :Bob Ceculski wrote: :d: :> I didn't say it, the Inquirer does ... guess we will'nt< :> have poor Andrew around here anymore making bogus claims!- :> No wonder he is anxious to trash Alpha ...  :  :u3 :Bob as you know the only bogus claims made on thisi8 :group are when people start talking about Alpha Servers5 :being high performance systems. You know because youA5 :were asked to come up with examples that proved this0 :claim and you didn't.       Interesting logic.    F   As for examples, here are some high-performance AlphaServer systems:  ?   Pittsburgh Supercomputer and other links at the 2001 roll-up:   /     http://www.compaq.com/hps/news/media01.htmls  E   Also the following will be of interest, as it specifically involvesaC   high-end SPARC and high-end AlphaServer systems competing for thei   same supercomputer contract:  0     http://www.computerworld.com/hardwaretopics/1       hardware/server/story/0,10801,58384,00.html   *   Newer materials are at the 2002 roll-up:  /     http://www.compaq.com/hps/news/media02.html   F   EWeek has also had some Sun-related discussions paralleling the MikeG   Magee article -- but there's more than enough FUD flying to keep all PE   of the pundits occupied, and all of the customers beFUDdled.  Most  D   everybody's getting painted with it of late, but that's also what I   sells ads and what increases the hits on various websites.  The recent tC   EWeek comparision of Sun SPARC and Intel Itanium performance was oI   certainly interesting, but until there is some actual hardware around, a/   any such comparision only sells website hits.   F   But leapfrogging performance figures are a longstanding tradition inI   the industry, and I expect that these will continue -- each new productnD   generation must be better, faster and/or cheaper than the earlier E   generations and at least reasonably competitive with any competing nG   products.  The threshold of pain involved in any platform upgrade or cF   platform migration must be sufficiently low, as well -- this is the C   positive benefit of an installed base.  (There are cooresponding d4   constraints involved with an installed base, too.)     N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------N       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.com    N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------    Date: 17 Jun 2002 16:48:02 -0700( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski): Subject: Re: Sun is on the way out!  Only HP and IBM left!= Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0206171548.13b0cdbd@posting.google.com>b  t "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote in message news:<ROLN8.195672$%y.18848494@bin4.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>...7 > "Bob Ceculski" <bob@instantwhip.com> wrote in messagen9 > news:d7791aa1.0206120933.41610cfb@posting.google.com...e; > > I didn't say it, the Inquirer does ... guess we will'nt = > > have poor Andrew around here anymore making bogus claims!a. > > No wonder he is anxious to trash Alpha ... > M > Learn to read, Bob.  The Inquirer also speculates that HP covertly used the:J > quoted article to spread FUD:  if you believe the one, you really should > believe the other. > M > Responses to the *original* article (quoted by the Inquirer) ran, as usual,bI > both pro and con in terms of its credibility.  If you wish to disparageNN > those who felt Sun *isn't* in trouble as having their heads firmly buried inL > the sand, then you should be *at least* as willing to admit the same about+ > those who believe VMS isn't in trouble...u >  > - bill  E nothing wrong with kicking a competitor when they are down ... as foroD VMS in trouble, I just had an interesting chat today w/Rich MarcelloE and I have no problem committing to vms to 2011 and beyond ... as VMS F has withstood the naysayers for the past 22 years, I believe will very/ well repeat that feat in the years to come ... e   VMS -- "stay the course"!U   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2002 16:44:58 -0700i# From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com>O: Subject: RE: Sun is on the way out!  Only HP and IBM left!9 Message-ID: <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIIEEDFDAA.tom@kednos.com>e   >-----Original Message-----n0 >From: Bob Ceculski [mailto:bob@instantwhip.com]$ >Sent: Monday, June 17, 2002 4:48 PM >To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com: >Subject: Re: Sun is on the way out! Only HP and IBM left! >w > 7 >"Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote in message -? >news:<ROLN8.195672$%y.18848494@bin4.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>... 8 >> "Bob Ceculski" <bob@instantwhip.com> wrote in message: >> news:d7791aa1.0206120933.41610cfb@posting.google.com...< >> > I didn't say it, the Inquirer does ... guess we will'nt> >> > have poor Andrew around here anymore making bogus claims!/ >> > No wonder he is anxious to trash Alpha ...> >> a= >> Learn to read, Bob.  The Inquirer also speculates that HP e >covertly used theK >> quoted article to spread FUD:  if you believe the one, you really shouldo >> believe the other.m >> w@ >> Responses to the *original* article (quoted by the Inquirer)  >ran, as usual, J >> both pro and con in terms of its credibility.  If you wish to disparage? >> those who felt Sun *isn't* in trouble as having their heads r >firmly buried in C >> the sand, then you should be *at least* as willing to admit the r >same about , >> those who believe VMS isn't in trouble... >>  	 >> - billn >pF >nothing wrong with kicking a competitor when they are down ... as forE >VMS in trouble, I just had an interesting chat today w/Rich Marcello F >and I have no problem committing to vms to 2011 and beyond ... as VMSG >has withstood the naysayers for the past 22 years, I believe will veryy0 >well repeat that feat in the years to come ...   ? That may be because of commitments to Uncle Sam, not Uncle Bob.<* What is his phone number an email address.   >s >VMS -- "stay the course"! >c >---' >Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.r; >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). @ >Version: 6.0.370 / Virus Database: 205 - Release Date: 6/5/2002 >n ---h& Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.: Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).? Version: 6.0.370 / Virus Database: 205 - Release Date: 6/5/2002    ------------------------------    Date: 17 Jun 2002 16:55:25 -0700( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski): Subject: Re: Sun is on the way out!  Only HP and IBM left!= Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0206171555.779150e8@posting.google.com>t   Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <andrew_nospam.harrison_remove_this@sun#.com> wrote in message news:<ael4gf$m87$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>...  > 4 > Bob as you know the only bogus claims made on this9 > group are when people start talking about Alpha Serverse6 > being high performance systems. You know because you6 > were asked to come up with examples that proved this7 > claim and you didn't. Don't be too downhearted a longp7 > list of people from Kerry to Rob and Freddy have beeno9 > asked the same question and failed to provide anything.r > 	 > Regardsd > Andrew Harrisonl >   9 My own hands on experiences have proven such ... I used ar6 Sun workstation once, and it was like what kids do to 8 lollipops, if you know what I mean ... Slowaris lived up2 to its name big time compared to my Vaxstation ...4 and now after trashing Itanium/VMS, you and your fud< company expect us to port to an unproven platform (slowaris/7 hammer), which from first glance looks like a repeat ofp: Itanic One ... I believe the Alpha VMS engineers giving us6 Itanium/VMS is a far better bet than Sun/AMD engineers) giving us Slowaris/hammer ... every time!o   ------------------------------    Date: 17 Jun 2002 19:46:25 -0700( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski): Subject: Re: Sun is on the way out!  Only HP and IBM left!= Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0206171846.504a6d7e@posting.google.com>g  t "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote in message news:<zYqP8.262560$%y.22685840@bin4.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>...@ > "Michael Austin" <maustin@firstdbasource.com> wrote in message. > news:3D0E1EA7.9211A716@firstdbasource.com..., > > Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy wrote:8 > > > Bob as you know the only bogus claims made on this= > > > group are when people start talking about Alpha Servers : > > > being high performance systems. You know because you: > > > were asked to come up with examples that proved this; > > > claim and you didn't. Don't be too downhearted a longt > >m > >tK > > Not to get in the way of your current, ongoing battle, but, what planetfL > > do you live on Andrew -- I would think that the Super Computer center inH > > Pitt would qualify as a high performance "ALPHA" system as would theG > > computing center out there in the desert at a "secret" governmentaleL > > agency. And IIRC they  are rated as "The fastest systems on the planet". > > K > > Ever wonder why SPARC/Slowaris wasn't included in the RFP? too slow andw > > definately not scalable. > K > Possibly my memory is faulty, but my impression was that *all* the recent0N > Alpha supercomputing wins were based on bunches of ES45 boxes, not GS-seriesM > hardware.  With a limit of 4 processors, ES45s hardly qualify as 'scalable'tL > (unless you wish to extend that description to bunches of Intel servers asG > well), and while they certainly qualify as 'servers' they don't covereJ > anything like the full range of that market segment (if they did, the GS > series wouldn't exist).  > I > Andrew seems to characterize the important part of the server market assL > 8-processor-and-up boxes (and it's certainly the highest-margin part), andI > admits that ES45s themselves are competitive (which is understating therN > case, but about as much as one can expect from a competitor).  To refute himJ > effectively, you really need to come up with evidence that the GS seriesM > out-performs Sun's larger offerings (unless you want to start sounding likeo > Bob).  >  > - bill  B People from Sun have to think of 8 chips and up as relating to theD high end market, as it takes that many chips or more to compete with
 one Alpha ...   B and if 4 processor EV68's can be beat 256 chip sparkies, just waitA until EV7 32/64 chip configs hit the market, as Dick Vitale would-  say, "It's blow out city, baby"!   ------------------------------    Date: 17 Jun 2002 13:19:02 -07001 From: keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com (Keith Parris)-, Subject: Sun Setting, Not Rising, says eWeek= Message-ID: <cf15391e.0206171219.77a97f74@posting.google.com>   D This isn't the first time a writer has seen parallels between Sun at& present and Digital in the last 1980s.  8 http://www.eweek.com/print_article/0,3668,a=27737,00.asp   Sun Setting, Not Rising?   By  Stan Gibson   E When you watch something long enough, patterns emerge. When you watchbD something a really long time, you start to think you're watching the sequel to a B movie.  A Why is it that every time I hear Scott McNealy or listen to a Sun A strategy pitch, I think it's circa 1987, and I'm listening to Keni? Olsen and Digital Equipment execs? For some of you, this may beoF meaningless because you're not old enough to remember. Believe me, the parallels are there.  D Digital (now HP) had a proprietary operating system, VMS (now calledD OpenVMS), and its own chip design, the VAX architecture (now Alpha).F Sun has Solaris and SPARC. Digital contended its environment was open,E just as Sun thinks its environment is open; most people think of themd as proprietary.i  > For years, McNealy has been striving to get beyond this simpleE paradigm, to no avail. If you remember (you probably don't), Sun rodehD to success on the open system of Unix, which it tried to corner withC the connivance of AT&T. Then Sun tried to create a clone market for E the SPARC chip via companies such as Solbourne. Then McNealy tried toe@ make Java VM into a computing platform that would usurp platform dominance from Windows.   D Just as Olsen disparaged Unix while his company reluctantly sold it,? so Sun is holding its nose while offering Linux products in itsy acquired Cobalt line.M  A And another thing: Many good people left Digital because they gotoF bored. Gordon Bell and Dave Cutler come to mind. Sun lost Eric Schmidt$ several years ago and now Ed Zander.  D Yes, there's a certain inevitability to it all, like waves hitting aA beach. Speaking of beach, Scott, maybe it's time. Like Ken Olsen,o' Scott McNealy may have stayed too long.A  1 McNealy on the beach? Is that a reach? Tell me at  stan_gibson@ziffdavis.com.   ------------------------------    Date: 17 Jun 2002 11:51:54 -0700( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)& Subject: Sun/Slowaris future in doubt!= Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0206171051.41f6b319@posting.google.com>i  = Since everyone here is so quick to speculate that Itanium/VMSs3 will fail, why are saying that Sun/Hammer will not?l> Makes no sense, esp. when pitting Alpha/VMS engineers againset8 Sun/AMD engineers, I would expect Itanium VMS chances of2 survival to be a heck of alot better than Sun/AMD!9 We all know that Sparky chip is dead ... unless they can  9 keep adding on more chips ... 512, 1024, 2048, to get thel= thing to look like it can run fast ... so Alpha is dead afteruB EV7, and sparc is dead now ... EV7 will outperform sparc by years,< the question is, why buy Sun/Slowaris?  Hammer One right now looks like Itanic one ...s  : Well computer geniuses, rational competent answers please!   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2002 17:01:03 -0400m* From: "rob kas" <rob@paychoice.nospam.com>* Subject: Re: Sun/Slowaris future in doubt!3 Message-ID: <3d0e4e10$0$1425$8e9e3842@news.atx.net>e            Greetings    <   Bob can you say Marketing......Come on now I know you can.?   With a slowly declining User count maybe at this point a UserdC    count that is declining more then slowly.  What resources do youSF    think HP will put into this?  I'll tell you just enough to keep the8   current base happy and paying their support contracts.  :    For the longest time the argument that the FEDS use VMSD     means it will be here forever. Well it's looks like they are now     reconsidering.  ?    Does Solaris have VMS like uptimes...No  it Doesn't  Will it0     ever...Who knows. K    But it has a much larger User Group ..ACTIVE development going on ..LOTS . of 3'rd party apps and I know I can get a job.  (                                      Rob      5 "Bob Ceculski" <bob@instantwhip.com> wrote in messageL7 news:d7791aa1.0206171051.41f6b319@posting.google.com... ? > Since everyone here is so quick to speculate that Itanium/VMS25 > will fail, why are saying that Sun/Hammer will not? @ > Makes no sense, esp. when pitting Alpha/VMS engineers againset: > Sun/AMD engineers, I would expect Itanium VMS chances of4 > survival to be a heck of alot better than Sun/AMD!: > We all know that Sparky chip is dead ... unless they can; > keep adding on more chips ... 512, 1024, 2048, to get the,? > thing to look like it can run fast ... so Alpha is dead after D > EV7, and sparc is dead now ... EV7 will outperform sparc by years,> > the question is, why buy Sun/Slowaris?  Hammer One right now > looks like Itanic one ...  >R< > Well computer geniuses, rational competent answers please!   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2002 18:44:27 -0400.' From: "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@hp.com>i* Subject: RE: Sun/Slowaris future in doubt!T Message-ID: <BE56C50EA024184DAF48F0B9A47F5CF40266079B@kaoexc01.americas.cpqcorp.net>   Rob,  G >>>   But it has a much larger User Group ..ACTIVE development going onR7 .LOTS of 3'rd party apps and I know I can get a job.>>>:  F While I will not say marketing could not be better or that positioning( mistakes have not been made in the past.  E However, the growing popularity of vendors adoption of Java means appdH vendors and Customers can have the best of both worlds ie. rock solid OS@ platform from a security and ultra-high availability perspectiveF combined with lots more applications and App developers (many Colleges? and Universities are moving to Java as their preferred teachingr
 language).   A few examples:i  H http://www.spiritsoft.com/news/pressreleases.asp?id=3D24 (Boston, June = 12,  2002)aB "SpiritSoft today announced the certification of its JMS messagingG integration product, SpiritWave Message Server, on the Hewlett- PackardyC OpenVMS platform. SpiritWave provides OpenVMS customers with a J2EEuF messaging architecture, allowing Java- based messaging applications to be built on OpenVMS.  < SpiritWave Message Server provides an advanced multi-clusterG architecture to deliver against demanding enterprise applications where ? there is no room for error. Additionally, SpiritWave provides atF standards-based solution to which customers can migrate their existing< applications from proprietary and legacy messaging systems."  / http://www.iona.com/pressroom/2002/20020327.htm0B "IONA ANNOUNCES ORBIX E2A APPLICATION SERVER PLATFORM FOR COMPAQ'S OPENVMS OPERATING SYSTEM  B IONA Orbix E2A Application Server Platform Enables Development and@ Deployment of Web Services Applications in the OpenVMS Operating Environmente  B JavaOnesm Conference 2002 - San Francisco, CA. - March 27, 2002 --B IONA(r), the leading e-Business Platform provider for Web ServicesC Integration (NASDAQ: IONA), today announced the availability of theeG Orbix E2A(tm) Application Server Platform on Compaq's OpenVMS operating D system. IONA's Orbix E2A Application Server Platform offers Compaq'sC OpenVMS customers a J2EE(tm)-compliant and Web services-architectedeF platform for application and e-Business infrastructure development.=20  * http://www.dataglider.com/news/press4.html  " Enhancing and Web Enabling OpenVMS  . DataGlider brings new functionality to OpenVMS  H Toronto, Ontario - January 7, 2002 - DataGlider brings new functionalityH and a new look to OpenVMS by using powerful web and wireless integrationD capabilities to extend existing business applications to the Web.=20  D Organizations can build on the investment they have already made andH bring new web-based functionality to OpenVMS. DataGlider can dynamically> link enterprise applications and data systems into a seamless,? real-time, unified view of information. Customers, partners andsE employees can interact with multiple back-end business systems from ai% single source using a web-browser.=20B  > And under other new recent wins for OpenVMS: February 21, 20028 http://www.mgex.com/news/news_releases/release28.html=20F "Successful Launch of Electronic Trading, New Contracts at Minneapolis Grain Exchange"t     Regards,    
 Kerry Main Senior Consultant  Hewlett-Packard Canada! Consulting & Integration Servicest Voice: 613-592-4660c Fax   : 613-591-4477 Email: Kerry.Main@hp.com     -----Original Message-----2 From: rob kas [mailto:rob@paychoice.nospam.com]=20 Sent: June 17, 2002 5:01 PMa To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comn* Subject: Re: Sun/Slowaris future in doubt!              Greetings    <   Bob can you say Marketing......Come on now I know you can.?   With a slowly declining User count maybe at this point a UserkC    count that is declining more then slowly.  What resources do yousF    think HP will put into this?  I'll tell you just enough to keep the8   current base happy and paying their support contracts.  :    For the longest time the argument that the FEDS use VMSD     means it will be here forever. Well it's looks like they are now     reconsidering.  ?    Does Solaris have VMS like uptimes...No  it Doesn't  Will it      ever...Who knows.wD    But it has a much larger User Group ..ACTIVE development going on4 .LOTS of 3'rd party apps and I know I can get a job.  (                                      Rob      5 "Bob Ceculski" <bob@instantwhip.com> wrote in message 7 news:d7791aa1.0206171051.41f6b319@posting.google.com...)G > Since everyone here is so quick to speculate that Itanium/VMS will=20 H > fail, why are saying that Sun/Hammer will not? Makes no sense, esp.=20I > when pitting Alpha/VMS engineers againset Sun/AMD engineers, I would=20CG > expect Itanium VMS chances of survival to be a heck of alot better=20dH > than Sun/AMD! We all know that Sparky chip is dead ... unless they can; > keep adding on more chips ... 512, 1024, 2048, to get thee? > thing to look like it can run fast ... so Alpha is dead afternD > EV7, and sparc is dead now ... EV7 will outperform sparc by years,> > the question is, why buy Sun/Slowaris?  Hammer One right now > looks like Itanic one ...s >e< > Well computer geniuses, rational competent answers please!   ------------------------------    Date: 17 Jun 2002 16:29:10 -0700" From: byebyemag@hotmail.com (Mark)0 Subject: Toshiba E-Station copier/printer issues= Message-ID: <229f336a.0206171529.29c0db43@posting.google.com>@  D Has anyone setup an LPD queue for a Toshiba e-station copier/network printer?  B We are running a DS20e VMS 7.2-2.  I have set an entry in the hostB database (ucx set host) and then ran sys$system:tcpip$lprsetup and? added the printer but when I try to print I just get the error:   A LPD Retrying failed job: LOGIN Number: 4 User: MIS_E3MARK Status:. %SYSTEM-F-REJE& CT, connect to network object rejected  5 I can ping the ip and the printer name from the ds20.e   Thanx in advance   Mark   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2002 21:37:22 +0100b+ From: Ray Swadling <ray@rgscomputing.co.uk>r Subject: tried the temp PAKd8 Message-ID: <sthsgus9amtbbgpr5jlgekuem46idocj6j@4ax.com>  D I had a call about this problem from a user this evening, so I tried- the temp PAK and disabled all the legit PAKs.o  9 Result was that I couldn't make any connections at all!!!   F Seems like the temp pak doesn't work.......it prevents any connections at all.y  E I've put my 5 licenses back in and now I can map the drives again. ItaC looks like I'll have to contact Hpaq tomorrow and try to sort out aa= working temp PAK. It all points to it being a licensing issue 	 anyway...      Ray.   ------------------------------    Date: 17 Jun 2002 11:40:05 -0700( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)> Subject: Re: US FDA ponders Slowaris over VMS ... what morons!= Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0206171040.3f1633d3@posting.google.com>f  n John Eisenschmidt <jweisen@eisenschmidt.org> wrote in message news:<20020617015415.C19159@eisenschmidt.org>...K > Well, let's face it: HP hasn't given anyone reason to have faith, and I te	 > hink sa K > ying "Solaris going the way of Tru64" is inaccurate at best. Some people D	 > want to5K >  look 5 to 10 years ahead, and while VMS has a roadmap, who's to say what2	 >  will h5 > appen with Itanium?n > 1 > John W. Eisenschmidt <jweisen@eisenschmidt.org>y  C and you didn't answer my question ... who's to say what will happen@; with Hammer now that that Sun has committed slowaris to it?dB Given Alpha/VMS engineers againset Sun/AMD engineers, I would giveG Itanium VMS a heck of a lot more chance surviving than Slowaris/Hammer!s   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2002 19:55:53 GMTe* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>> Subject: Re: US FDA ponders Slowaris over VMS ... what morons!B Message-ID: <d9rP8.262797$%y.22692694@bin4.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>  5 "Bob Ceculski" <bob@instantwhip.com> wrote in messageo7 news:d7791aa1.0206171040.3f1633d3@posting.google.com...g? > John Eisenschmidt <jweisen@eisenschmidt.org> wrote in messagee0 news:<20020617015415.C19159@eisenschmidt.org>...K > > Well, let's face it: HP hasn't given anyone reason to have faith, and Ie t. > > hink saiL > > ying "Solaris going the way of Tru64" is inaccurate at best. Some people > > want toVH > >  look 5 to 10 years ahead, and while VMS has a roadmap, who's to say what > >  will hw > > appen with Itanium?o > >k3 > > John W. Eisenschmidt <jweisen@eisenschmidt.org>S >g' > and you didn't answer my question ...t  > Most likely because it was too stupid to merit bothering with.    who's to say what will happen= > with Hammer now that that Sun has committed slowaris to it?w  H Get a grip, Bob.  Sun hasn't committed anything of the kind.  Sun hasn'tL even *hinted* that it might, though has expressed general interest in x86-64K for Linux use.  This has caused *speculation* (which I think is reasonable,8H but hardly any kind of 'commitment') that Sun *might* be interested in aJ Solaris port at some future time, if only as insurance (sort of like VMS'sL Itanic port might have been justifiable as 'insurance' if they hadn't killed Alpha along with it).s  D > Given Alpha/VMS engineers againset Sun/AMD engineers, I would giveI > Itanium VMS a heck of a lot more chance surviving than Slowaris/Hammer!o  H Considering that ex-Alpha engineers have been working at AMD right alongJ contributing to Athlon, Hammer, and HyperTransport development (and likelyK more significantly than ex-Alpha engineers were contributing at Intel untiliI last summer), and considering that, even with the advantage of running onoL Alpha, VMS has fared quite poorly over the past decade compared with SolarisL on SPARC, your optimism in this matter appears as poorly-founded as the rest of your drivel.    - bill   ------------------------------    Date: 17 Jun 2002 16:40:16 -0700( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)> Subject: Re: US FDA ponders Slowaris over VMS ... what morons!= Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0206171540.567dc2da@posting.google.com>o  e "rob kas" <rob@paychoice.nospam.com> wrote in message news:<3d0e03e7$0$1429$8e9e3842@news.atx.net>...s > Well   Bob > : >   Let's see you want me to spend millions on a  Hardware% >   Platform that has a declared EOL.e > C >   On a O/S that is being ported to a unproven Arch that is reallyr& >    little more then a hot rodded PC. > = >   On a company thats being merged when almost all High Teche >    Mergers fail. >  >    Yep your logic is flawlessc > ( >                                    Rob >   E well Rob, let's see, you are going to port to Slowaris/sparky that is E on a soon to be eol platform, soon to be slowaris/hammer, a chip thataD by recent examination has all the makings of Itanic One, an os beingA ported, just like vms, to an unproven architecture (hammer), on aeC company that is financial trouble ... looks like you are breaking alC few of your rules, isn't it?  I would place my bet on the Alpha/VMSe@ engineers (itanium/vms) over Sun/AMD engineers (slowaris/hammer)B everytime!  Even IBM is in trouble, they just bought back secretlyC 34 million of their own shares to make their dismal latest earningsaA look decent ... while hp has printers/high end revenue to help it-B weather the storm ... I fail to see your logic ... mine looks much better I think ...   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2002 21:02:13 -0700-" From: GreyCloud <cumulus@mist.com>> Subject: Re: US FDA ponders Slowaris over VMS ... what morons!( Message-ID: <3D0EB0C5.C2771B09@mist.com>   Bob Ceculski wrote:. > g > "rob kas" <rob@paychoice.nospam.com> wrote in message news:<3d0e03e7$0$1429$8e9e3842@news.atx.net>...  > > Well   Bob > >t< > >   Let's see you want me to spend millions on a  Hardware' > >   Platform that has a declared EOL.u > >aE > >   On a O/S that is being ported to a unproven Arch that is reallyo( > >    little more then a hot rodded PC. > > ? > >   On a company thats being merged when almost all High Techi > >    Mergers fail. > >m! > >    Yep your logic is flawless  > >s* > >                                    Rob > >t > G > well Rob, let's see, you are going to port to Slowaris/sparky that iseG > on a soon to be eol platform, soon to be slowaris/hammer, a chip thatrF > by recent examination has all the makings of Itanic One, an os beingC > ported, just like vms, to an unproven architecture (hammer), on alE > company that is financial trouble ... looks like you are breaking aiE > few of your rules, isn't it?  I would place my bet on the Alpha/VMSoB > engineers (itanium/vms) over Sun/AMD engineers (slowaris/hammer)D > everytime!  Even IBM is in trouble, they just bought back secretlyE > 34 million of their own shares to make their dismal latest earningslC > look decent ... while hp has printers/high end revenue to help itmD > weather the storm ... I fail to see your logic ... mine looks much > better I think ...  / Got any links to your claim about Sun and AMD??    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2002 15:04:35 -0400n- From: "Richard D. Piccard" <piccard@ohio.edu>bM Subject: Re: VMS Groups and Privileges (was: Carly was here in ZKO yesterday)c( Message-ID: <3D0E32C4.D596357B@ohio.edu>  G This listing of categories, as I remember the VMS documentation, is notaE intended to constitute a system of leveled privileges, nor a securityc model.    E These categories are intended to help new system managers think aboutlB and understand the implications of granting a user's request for aH specific privilege.  Knowing that there are ways to exploit a particular@ privilege to gain control of the system is helpful!  Some of theH privileges have names that would not intuitively convey that information to a new system manager. n   				RDPi     Don Sykes wrote:   [snip]  J > If you mean the categories described below, I see where we differ in our > definitions. >      None: No privileges? >      Normal: Minimum privileges to effectively use the system/C >      Group: Potential to interfere with members of the same grouppD >      Devour: Potential to consume noncritical systemwide resourcesB >      System: Potential to interfere with normal system operation7 >      Objects: Potential to compromise object securitys+ >      All: Potential to control the systemgL > These categories are broad and have some sense of hierarchy, but as I saidE > from the start, do not reflect a well thought out system of leveleduC > privileges. Nor can they implement the security model I spoke of.u >    [snip]   -- iB ==================================================================B Dick Piccard                           Academic Technology ManagerB piccard@ohio.edu                                 Computer ServicesB http://oak.cats.ohiou.edu/~piccard/                Ohio University   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2002 22:29:14 GMTj( From: Don Sykes <annonymous@pacbell.net>M Subject: Re: VMS Groups and Privileges (was: Carly was here in ZKO yesterday)t+ Message-ID: <3D0E6325.DE921C3C@pacbell.net>r   "Richard D. Piccard" wrote: L > > If you mean the categories described below, I see where we differ in our > > definitions. > >      None: No privilegesA > >      Normal: Minimum privileges to effectively use the systemnE > >      Group: Potential to interfere with members of the same group F > >      Devour: Potential to consume noncritical systemwide resourcesD > >      System: Potential to interfere with normal system operation9 > >      Objects: Potential to compromise object security - > >      All: Potential to control the systemSN > > These categories are broad and have some sense of hierarchy, but as I saidG > > from the start, do not reflect a well thought out system of leveledvE > > privileges. Nor can they implement the security model I spoke of.k > >  > I > This listing of categories, as I remember the VMS documentation, is nottG > intended to constitute a system of leveled privileges, nor a securitye > model. > G > These categories are intended to help new system managers think aboutnD > and understand the implications of granting a user's request for aJ > specific privilege.  Knowing that there are ways to exploit a particularB > privilege to gain control of the system is helpful!  Some of theJ > privileges have names that would not intuitively convey that information > to a new system manager. > N That's how I see them as well, and as such, I think they could use a re-think.L But, I think this issue has gotten bogged down in definitions of "leveled" &L "security model". AFAIC this is one of the lessor issues with VMS in a short list of such VMS issues.P My original point (if I remember) was that there were a few items that should beO addressed IF VMS were to undergo a super-sizing - ie become part of a super set 
 OS with Unix.s   As I see that issue :    	New OSl  --------------------------------  |   New stuff                  |  | ----------------             |  | |              |  ---------- |  | |  VMS Stuff   |  |        | |  | |              |  |Unix    | |  | |              |  |Stuff   | |  | |              |  |        | |  | |              |  |        | |  | |              |  ---------- |  | |              |             |  | ----------------             |  |     New Stuff                |  --------------------------------       Have VMS. Will Travel. Wire Paladin (@alphase.com) 
 San Franciscot   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2002 21:41:43 +0200." From: "Hans Vlems" <hvlems@iae.nl>3 Subject: Re: Why is TCPIP$ROUTE.DAT in SYS$COMMON ? 5 Message-ID: <aeldj5$7sqqh$1@ID-143435.news.dfncis.de>   I The SCS layer isn't depedning on IP but most business related connectionso	 are thesehL days. And many sites emulated the DECnet layout. The trouble is that IP uses a lotsF more potential single points of failure: DNS server, IP router and ARP server.N: There is a lot you can do about it but it will cost money.E A DNS server in each IP network, VRRP set up for at least two routersl between thet physical networks etc., That is the task of a network administrator.   Hans  4 Bart Zorn <B.Zorn@xs4all.nospam.nl> wrote in message) news:3D0C9C55.6060803@xs4all.nospam.nl...e > Hans Vlems wrote:oL > > IMHO the last thing you'd want in a VMS cluster is that its availability > > getsL > > affected by a an external unit such as an IP router. Putting the routing > > databaseL > > in SYS$COMMON at least suggests to have all cluster nodes in the same IP > > network.K > > There are probably many sites that still happily use 10.* and 192.168.*n > > networks on their LAN all , > > routed by one box (per set of networks). >aK > Since when is the availability of an OpenVMS cluster dependant on TCP/IP?V > C > OK, if the only way to access the cluster from outside is throughaH > TCP/IP, you may be rigth. However, there isn't much you can do in that6 > case, unless you are also the network administrator. >  > Bart Zorn0 >    ------------------------------    Date: 17 Jun 2002 21:41:46 -07002 From: mcarlson@m87-blackhole.org (Michael carlson)> Subject: Will AIT-2 or AIT-3 media/changers work with OpenVMS?= Message-ID: <c73daec1.0206172041.4bbfb5f4@posting.google.com>u   Specifically in 7.3   D I am currently looking for a high capacity Library solution, and theE AIT-3 looks really good. I think OpenVMS can use AIT tape drives, butnD I dont know if it will support any drive beyond that. Any info wouldE be great, as I would like to attain a spectralogic library since I'vet1 had a lot of success on various UNIX's with them.,  D Are there tape size limitations in VMS? And would a SDLT drive would instead?  & Any info would be greatly appreciated.   Mike Carlson   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2002 19:24:42 -0400m. From: "David Pikcilingis" <piks@speakeasy.net>: Subject: Re: [Q]  VMS incremental backups vs. other brands/ Message-ID: <ugss0k4qgepp51@corp.supernews.com>n   Hello,  J Boston Business Computing produces Vbackup, an emulation of OpenVMS BACKUP2 for UNIX systems that will do incremental backups.  > From the Vbackup manual (www.bosbc.com/documents/vbackup.pdf): Incremental Backupsi  F An incremental backup is an archive of files that have been created orK changed since the most recent full or incremental backup. Such archives are K typically created by adding the -y (tar-style) or /SINCE (VMS-style) optionyL to the Vbackup invocation used for creating full backups. The option's valueF should be the time at which the most recent full or incremental backup began.  K For example, if the most recent backup of the /home directory tree began at K 11:48pm on March 8, 1999, then the following command creates an incremental@G backup of the files under /home that have been created or changed sincetG then: tar-style: vbackup -cf /dev/nrmt0 -s9mar.inc -y'8-MAR-1999 23:48't= /home VMS-style: vbackup '/SINCE="8-MAR-1999 23:48" [home...]  "/dev/nrmt0":9mar.inc/SAVE_SET'h  J For more information see www.bosbc.com/vbackup.html or request information from sales@bosbc.com   Regards,   David Pikcilingis  Boston Business Computing         ; "Alan E. Feldman" <SPAMSINK2001@YAHOO.COM> wrote in messagen7 news:343f30ae.0205151510.3b2b5739@posting.google.com...  > Hello, >iB > With VMS, incremental restore operations restore the disk to theA > condition it was in as of the time of the last incremental saveyF > operation. Files that were deleted or modified between the last fullC > backup and the last incremental backup remain deleted or modified- > after restoration. >-H > Does any other brand of Backup do this? I think with PKZIP and WindowsF > Backup programs the incremental restore step simply tries to restoreC > all files that were saved, possibly warning you about overwriting G > files with the same name on the disk and letting you decide on a filea > by file basis. (What a pain!)e >yC > I don't much have experience with other backup programs. So, doespH > anyone know about other brands' incremental backup restore operations?' > Do any of them attempt what VMS does?e >4 > Just curious. Thanks.. >S > Disclaimer: JMHO > Alan E. Feldmanj$ > afeldman atski gfigroup dotski com   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2002.335 ************************