1 INFO-VAX	Wed, 19 Jun 2002	Volume 2002 : Issue 337       Contents:) Re: A Proposal for All C.O.V. to Consider ) Re: A Proposal for All C.O.V. to Consider ) Re: A Proposal for All C.O.V. to Consider < Re: Advanced Server V7.3 - "limit on concurrent connections"< Re: Advanced Server V7.3 - "limit on concurrent connections" Alphaserver 300 problem  Re: ANN: Updated JUMP  Re: ANN: Updated JUMP  Re: ANN: Updated JUMP  Re: ANN: Updated JUMP ! Re: Apache bug affect VMS Apache? 9 Re: Call or email hp ... they will answer your questions! 9 Re: Call or email hp ... they will answer your questions! 9 Re: Call or email hp ... they will answer your questions! 4 Re: can VMS mail block e-mail from certian address'?4 Re: can VMS mail block e-mail from certian address'?: CDSA on VMS (was: howto create self-extracting zip files?)$ Re: CONNECT:Direct wildcard transfer Re: Could linux become VMS?  Re: Could linux become VMS?  Re: Could linux become VMS?  Re: Could linux become VMS?  Re: Could linux become VMS?  Re: Could linux become VMS?  Re: Could linux become VMS?  Re: Could linux become VMS? 8 Re: Disaster Tolerant advertising using Fortune magazine8 Re: Disaster Tolerant advertising using Fortune magazine8 Re: Disaster Tolerant advertising using Fortune magazine8 Re: Disaster Tolerant advertising using Fortune magazine8 Re: Disaster Tolerant advertising using Fortune magazine8 Re: Disaster Tolerant advertising using Fortune magazine8 Re: Disaster Tolerant advertising using Fortune magazine8 Re: Disaster Tolerant advertising using Fortune magazine+ Re: howto create self-extracting zip files? " http osu web server open vms 7.2-2& Re: http osu web server open vms 7.2-2? Re: Interesting ZDnet post about Tandem -- Can VMS do the same? ? Re: Interesting ZDnet post about Tandem -- Can VMS do the same? ? Re: Interesting ZDnet post about Tandem -- Can VMS do the same? ? Re: Interesting ZDnet post about Tandem -- Can VMS do the same? * Itanium 2 beats Sun Sparky in performance!. RE: Itanium 2 beats Sun Sparky in performance! Re: Linus' comments about VMS  Re: Linus' comments about VMS @ Re: Location of DLM papers ?, was: Re: Linus' comments about VMS@ Re: Location of DLM papers ?, was: Re: Linus' comments about VMS Re: misc Qns, Re: My conversation with Linus about VMS ..., Re: My conversation with Linus about VMS ..., Re: My conversation with Linus about VMS ..., Re: My conversation with Linus about VMS ..., Re: My conversation with Linus about VMS ..., Re: My conversation with Linus about VMS ..., Re: My conversation with Linus about VMS ..., Re: My conversation with Linus about VMS ..., Re: My conversation with Linus about VMS ..., Re: My conversation with Linus about VMS ..., Re: My conversation with Linus about VMS ..." Re: Need DECNet packet information Re: Port of SAMBA 2.2.4 " Re: rooted devices and /TRANS=CONC" Re: rooted devices and /TRANS=CONC2 Re: SSH v2 (was Re: OpenVMS, Volume Desktop OS...)2 Re: SSH v2 (was Re: OpenVMS, Volume Desktop OS...)! RE: Sun/Slowaris future in doubt! ! Re: Sun/Slowaris future in doubt! ! Re: Sun/Slowaris future in doubt! ! Re: Sun/Slowaris future in doubt! ! Re: Sun/Slowaris future in doubt! ! Re: Sun/Slowaris future in doubt! ! Re: Sun/Slowaris future in doubt!  RE: unix history RE: unix history Re: VMS advertising suggestion VMS V7.3-1 Info  [OT] Why Software is So Bad..." RE: [OT] Why Software is So Bad..." Re: [OT] Why Software is So Bad..." Re: [OT] Why Software is So Bad..." Re: [OT] Why Software is So Bad..." Re: [OT] Why Software is So Bad..." Re: [OT] Why Software is So Bad...1 Re: [Q]  VMS incremental backups vs. other brands   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 18 Jun 2002 18:29:20 GMT # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> 2 Subject: Re: A Proposal for All C.O.V. to ConsiderH Message-ID: <4_KP8.63717$831.45105@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>  < "Dave Gudewicz" <david.gudewicz@abbott.com> wrote in message+ news:aenrl3$abp$1@fizban.pprd.abbott.com...  > G > I tuned in to the server web cast today and VMS was mentioned several  times,I > but when I asked an on-line question about its absense in the first few I > slides, I got the "VMS is strategic, but not a growth platform" answer.   E In other words, HP might as well hang a sign on the door in Palo Alto G saying, "No new VMS customers wanted" right beside the "No help wanted" G sign, and beside the other sign that says "Yard Sale - 15,000 desks and & chairs. This Saturday, rain or shine."   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2002 02:55:18 GMT 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> 2 Subject: Re: A Proposal for All C.O.V. to Consider' Message-ID: <3D0FF671.BBA21049@fsi.net>    "Terry C. Shannon" wrote:  > M > There is a cheaper way to do this, and one that tends to embarrass the hell  > out of marketeers. > J > I went to VISTAPRINT.COM and got some business cards made up. They read: >   > VMS Marketing Volunteers, LTD. > VMS: The Secure Business OS  >  > Terry C. Shannon > VMS Evangelist >  > address and contact info.  > M > Cost of cards: ten bucks. Look on face of marketeer or senior HPQ exec when , > they are presented with a card: PRICELESS!  F O.k., folks! Others proposed it, John detailed it, now Terry has named it!    "VMS Marketing Volunteers, LTD"   F I have Avery's biz card software on my Wintel PC here. I'm gonna printG up a bunch of 'em. ...and even if I have to go into debt to pay for the D St. Louis symposium (probably won't get a session accepted, but it'sF only a five-hour drive from here), I'm gonna pass those out to all the HPQ brass I can find!   C ..and remember: if you haven't already registered for St. Louis, be * *SURE* to state that as your company name!  ? Imagine - all those badges walking around saying "VMS Marketing  Volunteers, LTD".    Be still, my beating heart!    --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2002 03:21:11 GMT 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> 2 Subject: Re: A Proposal for All C.O.V. to Consider& Message-ID: <3D0FFC80.F01D8F2@fsi.net>   "David J. Dachtera" wrote: >  > "Terry C. Shannon" wrote:  > > O > > There is a cheaper way to do this, and one that tends to embarrass the hell  > > out of marketeers. > > L > > I went to VISTAPRINT.COM and got some business cards made up. They read: > > " > > VMS Marketing Volunteers, LTD. > > VMS: The Secure Business OS  > >  > > Terry C. Shannon > > VMS Evangelist > >  > > address and contact info.  > > O > > Cost of cards: ten bucks. Look on face of marketeer or senior HPQ exec when . > > they are presented with a card: PRICELESS! > H > O.k., folks! Others proposed it, John detailed it, now Terry has named > it!  > ! > "VMS Marketing Volunteers, LTD"  > H > I have Avery's biz card software on my Wintel PC here. I'm gonna printI > up a bunch of 'em. ...and even if I have to go into debt to pay for the F > St. Louis symposium (probably won't get a session accepted, but it'sH > only a five-hour drive from here), I'm gonna pass those out to all the > HPQ brass I can find!  > E > ..and remember: if you haven't already registered for St. Louis, be , > *SURE* to state that as your company name! > A > Imagine - all those badges walking around saying "VMS Marketing  > Volunteers, LTD".  >  > Be still, my beating heart!   H I know - bad form to reply to myself, but I wanted to cross-post this toH comp.org.decus (and two others) in the hope that Jeff K. or someone elseH might comment on the possibility of collusion - getting the registrationE people to print that on the badges of all registrants who so request. F That way, HPQ could clearly and concretely see how much support exists9 for the idea of actively promoting VMS in the mainstream.   H If anyone knows what the badge holders will look like, maybe CARTS couldE collude with DFWCUG to produce a little appendix that could easily be D attached to the badge holder, and could be passed out at the welcome, gala, if they even do that this time around.   http://www.hpets2002.com/    --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 18 Jun 2002 17:03:27 -0400 1 From: "Brad McCusker" <brad.mccusker@charter.net> E Subject: Re: Advanced Server V7.3 - "limit on concurrent connections" / Message-ID: <ugvukkoi6duce2@corp.supernews.com>   < "Dave Gudewicz" <david.gudewicz@abbott.com> wrote in message+ news:aelf8p$qjd$1@fizban.pprd.abbott.com... G > What does the configuration manager tell you about maximum concurrent 
 > signons? >   G Nope, that's not it.  Max con-current signons is the number of external F authentication threads we create.  Its for that mythical company whereK everyone comes it at 8:00 AM and hits the <CR> after typing their User/Pass L at the exact same time.  In other words, its doubtful anyone needs more thanH the 10 threads its set to.  Actually, its doubtful that more than two of+ those threads are ever in simultaneous use.   ) Bottom line - not related to this problem   
 Brad McCusker  Hewlett-Packard Company # OpenVMS Advanced Server Engineering  Littleton MA and Nashua NH, USA   I Comments are my own and do not reflect the opinion of my employer, or any , other organization I may be affilaited with.     > $admin/config  >  > --	 > Dave...  > 5 > More than one cigar at a time is excessive smoking.  > -----Mark Twain  > : > "Ray Swadling" <ray@rgscomputing.co.uk> wrote in message4 > news:457sguse41qb53f5v6asqlbplu39ddms25@4ax.com... > > Hi,  > > J > > I have Advanced Server V7.3 running on a DS20. I have currently got anH > > open temp license PAK pending the arrival of some more PAKs to allow > > increased number of users. > > F > > I have several users/shares set up, but I am experiencing an errorE > > when more than 3 users on different clients try to connect to the E > > server to access a share. I don't know if the problem is with the 1 > > share or the user account, but the error is:-  > >  > > "A connection F > > to the server could not be made because the limit on the number of> > > concurrent connections for this account has been reached." > > J > > I have set the share to unlimited connections and have trawled throughF > > the documentation and help to try to find any other settings which2 > > would control/limit the number of connections.C > > I thought it was license related  (hence the temp PAK) but that  > > doesn't seem to help.....  > > G > > I seem to vaguely recall some problem when using a mix of temp/real I > > license PAKs. I intend to disable all the valid PAKs tomorrow and see < > > if having just the temp unlimited one cures the problem. > > C > > Users with different client/usernames get the error so it looks # > > share-related not user account.  > > ( > > Can anyone shed any light on this??? > > " > > VMS 7.2-1/Advanced Server V7.3 > >  > > Ray. > >  >  >    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 18 Jun 2002 17:05:37 -0400 1 From: "Brad McCusker" <brad.mccusker@charter.net> E Subject: Re: Advanced Server V7.3 - "limit on concurrent connections" / Message-ID: <ugvukldj0cd7e3@corp.supernews.com>   8 "Ray Swadling" <ray@rgscomputing.co.uk> wrote in message2 news:olisgu8aemb09jkljs89g1taajd55asnu3@4ax.com...5 > On Mon, 17 Jun 2002 15:14:22 -0500, "Dave Gudewicz" $ > <david.gudewicz@abbott.com> wrote: > & > >Also what does $PWLICENSE tell you. > > 3 > >pwlic*ense == $sys$system:pwrk$lr_show_usage.exe  >  > % > Total 5 Cluster Use: 0 Available: 5  > D > I tried the temp PAK and it doesn't work......If I disable all theC > legit PAKs and then enable just the temp one, I get zero licenses A > available and a message telling me I need a PWLMxxxCA07.03 as a 
 > minimum. > F > So I now am pretty sure its just a licensing problem as I'm using up > my 5 licenses.  I I agree, this is a licensing issue.  I'm curious what they gave you for a L temp PAK.  What is the "PWLMXXXCA07.03" part look like?  Is it that specific string?     5 I just need to talk to HPAQ tomorrow to get a working B > temp PAK and I should be OK. It'll take about a month to get theG > purchase order through our system here for the 10 extra license PAKs.  >  >  > Thanks for your help Dave....  >  >  > Ray.   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2002 03:59:39 GMT 0 From: William Barnett-Lewis <wlewis@mailbag.com>  Subject: Alphaserver 300 problem+ Message-ID: <3D10016C.F8944B4A@mailbag.com>   F Last week I picked up an Alphaserver 300. 192mb/2x1gb/cd/mach64 video.H When I got it set up, it was in ARC mode. I followed the instructions inF the manual I downloaded from hpaq's website and used the menu to reset> it for VMS mode. After power cycling, all it does it sit with    eb ...    D in the upper left hand corner of the screen. From what little I haveG been able to find so far, this is a "Failed to detect CPU speed" error. H If this is the case, what are my options for further trouble shooting orH repair? I hope to reseat everything possible tomorrow evening after some@ further research (and perhaps tips from here). My goal is to run Hobbyist VMS on it.    TIA,   William  --  ) You better watch out   What you wish for; * It better be worth it  So much to die for. 		       Courtney Love   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 18 Jun 2002 12:51:34 -0700 5 From: "Kenneth H. Fairfield" <My.Full.Name@intel.com>  Subject: Re: ANN: Updated JUMP( Message-ID: <3D0F8F46.79D85C3@intel.com>   Jonathan Ridler wrote:  I > JUMP can do something similar to SETUSER (with various qualifiers), but ? > the most common way to use JUMP is in EXACT mode which uses a J > pseudo-terminal actually logged in as the user (without the need for theD > password) -- this is NOT an impersonation: it is EXACTLY the user. > F > I suggest you download the kit and read the documentation -- JUMP isG > very powerful and flexible, with good security and auditing features. 4 > I am not aware of it causing any systems to crash.  F     On a related note, how would you compare JUMP to Hunter's HGLOGIN?E More or fewer features/flexibility?  Different or the same underlying 9 mechanisms (psuedo-terminal, persona services, whatever)?        Mostly just curious, Ken --6 I don't speak for Intel, Intel doesn't speak for me...  
 Ken Fairfield ! F20 Automation VMS System Support  kenneth.h.fairfield#intel.com    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 18 Jun 2002 20:30:23 GMT - From: goathunter@goatley.com (Hunter Goatley)  Subject: Re: ANN: Updated JUMP1 Message-ID: <3d0f9732.110104752@news.process.com>   : On Tue, 18 Jun 2002 12:51:34 -0700, "Kenneth H. Fairfield" <My.Full.Name@intel.com> wrote:   G >    On a related note, how would you compare JUMP to Hunter's HGLOGIN? F >More or fewer features/flexibility?  Different or the same underlying: >mechanisms (psuedo-terminal, persona services, whatever)? > D HGLOGIN doesn't place any restrictions on who can use it, other thanC the privs required.  JUMP is designed to let the system manager (or ? whoever) grant access to certain people, with logging about who  JUMPed where, etc.  C HGLOGIN does none of that.  HGLOGIN is well-suited for systems with G one or two privileged users; JUMP is for systems with lots of operators 0 who may need occasional access to other systems.   This is from the JUMP readme: = ------------------------------------------------------------- H JUMP allows a user to login exactly  as another user without a password.H It  also  allows a more restricted (non-exact) impersonation of  another user.   H Use of JUMP  is  restricted  to  specific  categories  of users: Systems= Programmers, Operators and any specifically authorised users.   H All users are validated against an access file to determine any specificH access to be granted or denied  in  addition to any default access (e.g.H for  Operators).   The access file also may contain options relating  to  security monitoring of sessions.  3 Exact jumps can be monitored with secure log files.   H For non-exact jumps, items which are changed to those of the target user are:  2   UIC, Default Directory, Default Disk, LNM$GROUP.  I   Username (Systems Programmers only, using the SETUSER or ALL qualifier)   . Privileges and process rights are NOT changed.= -------------------------------------------------------------a     Hunter ------9 Hunter Goatley, Process Software, http://www.process.com/ 8 goathunter@goatley.com    http://www.goatley.com/hunter/< New Robert R. McCammon site: http://www.RobertRMcCammon.com/   ------------------------------    Date: 18 Jun 2002 15:55:13 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)r Subject: Re: ANN: Updated JUMP3 Message-ID: <y0dNi3$26dmP@eisner.encompasserve.org>   a In article <3d0f9732.110104752@news.process.com>, goathunter@goatley.com (Hunter Goatley) writes:o   > This is from the JUMP readme:c? > ------------------------------------------------------------- J > JUMP allows a user to login exactly  as another user without a password.  ? I doubt they would be able to make the same accesses within the D VMS Registry as the real user, since the tool likely cannot recreateG the user's Windows NT credentials on the VMS system without a password.   8 Microsoft crypto might be bad, but it is not _that_ bad.   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2002 05:44:55 GMTr. From: peter@langstoeger.at (Peter LANGSTOEGER) Subject: Re: ANN: Updated JUMP5 Message-ID: <rTUP8.289806$305.4189406@news.chello.at>n  g In article <d1BP8.1$Va1.94301@news.cpqcorp.net>, "Jonathan Ridler" <jonathan.ridler@compaq.com> writes:sH >JUMP can do something similar to SETUSER (with various qualifiers), but> >the most common way to use JUMP is in EXACT mode which uses aI >pseudo-terminal actually logged in as the user (without the need for the C >password) -- this is NOT an impersonation: it is EXACTLY the user.e  O Previously, I used JUMP/EXACT very often but one thing I always found annoying:e? You can't have a subprocess when starting a JUMP/EXACT session. J I can understand this restriction by a JUMP, but not by an /EXACT session.  E Hopefully, this kind of bug/restriction is gone in the new version...o  % All else, well done, Jonathan, Thanksa   -- S Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGERs% Network and OpenVMS system specialist  E-mail  peter@langstoeger.atP A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm looking for (a) Network _and_ VMS Job(s)   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 18 Jun 2002 23:38:19 +0200t: From: "Gotfryd Smolik, VMS lists" <gotfryd@stanpol.com.pl>* Subject: Re: Apache bug affect VMS Apache?J Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0206182330180.18149-100000@irys.stanpol.com.pl>  - On Tue, 18 Jun 2002, John Eisenschmidt wrote:t  < >+::silently praying this doesn't start a "why Apache should! >+  be written in Bliss thread"::.  :  Och, John, why Apache should *not* be written in Bliss ??  -:O ;)t  8  Probably also some additional question (where forces me  to interfere with this subject): [...over 50 cited lines...] 2 ...why not cut all the quoted and unneeded text ??  .  Regards - Gotfryd (without offence, please !)   -- uE =====================================================================uF $ ON F$ERROR("LANGUAGE","ENGLISH","IN_MESSAGE").GT.F$ERROR("NORMAL") - 		THEN EXCUSE/OBJECT=MEt. $!                        GS@stanpol.zabrze.plE =====================================================================    ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2002 02:44:42 GMTs1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> B Subject: Re: Call or email hp ... they will answer your questions!' Message-ID: <3D0FF3F6.DE2267E5@fsi.net>Q   Bob Ceculski wrote:u > b > "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote in message news:<3D0E5626.EBF15498@fsi.net>... > > Bob Ceculski wrote:  > > >rF > > > If you have any doubts about VMS, call your rep or hp vms group.A > > > I emailed Rich Marcello and just got off of the phone afternC > > > having a nice little chat with him.  He is very aware of whatr> > > > is going on, but after learning a few behind the scencesF > > > happenings, everything will be just fine ... I am confident moreE > > > than ever that VMS will survive ... and so is Rich ... vms will E > > > continue to be developed,  and inroads made, slowly but surely. F > > > This may not be fast enough for most, but my plans are made, andC > > > I am assured they will happen.  I can now go back to the bestiA > > > environment in the world and get real work done while I sit ; > > > and watch everyone else not on vms crash and burn ...r > > >"B > > > P.S.  A replacement for the ds10/ds10l running vms should be3 > > >       coming in the not to distant future ...n > > K > > Gee - now if we could get Rich in the loop on our sales cycle, maybe HE2K > > could explain the so-called "dead end" Alpha to our prospects who throw  > > that back in our face... > >rC > > Preaching to the choir *STILL* doesn't cut - _THE_ _WORD_ _HAS_aL > > __G_O_T__ _TO_ _GET_ _TO_ _THE_ _MASSES_ _._  Period - end of statement. > >.I > > There's no ifs, ands, buts, ors, maybes, howevers or otherwises about  > > it!r > E > Alpha is not dead, and will do very well for at least next 5 years,kC > and by then Itanium VMS will offer an inexpensive alternative ...C [snip]  - *FINE*!!! Spew all the platitudes you want!!!i  * ...just spew them _AT_ _THE_ MASSES_ _!!!_   -- e David J. Dachterae dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/e   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2002 02:46:19 GMTe1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>IB Subject: Re: Call or email hp ... they will answer your questions!' Message-ID: <3D0FF458.ECE694BA@fsi.net>e   Rob Young wrote: > ] > In article <3D0E5626.EBF15498@fsi.net>, "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> writes:M > > Bob Ceculski wrote:  > >>E > >> If you have any doubts about VMS, call your rep or hp vms group.y@ > >> I emailed Rich Marcello and just got off of the phone afterB > >> having a nice little chat with him.  He is very aware of what= > >> is going on, but after learning a few behind the scencesJE > >> happenings, everything will be just fine ... I am confident more.D > >> than ever that VMS will survive ... and so is Rich ... vms willD > >> continue to be developed,  and inroads made, slowly but surely.E > >> This may not be fast enough for most, but my plans are made, and B > >> I am assured they will happen.  I can now go back to the best@ > >> environment in the world and get real work done while I sit: > >> and watch everyone else not on vms crash and burn ... > >>A > >> P.S.  A replacement for the ds10/ds10l running vms should be 2 > >>       coming in the not to distant future ... > >tK > > Gee - now if we could get Rich in the loop on our sales cycle, maybe HE K > > could explain the so-called "dead end" Alpha to our prospects who throw  > > that back in our face... > >e > D >         You might try pointing out that MIPS is dead-ended for theG >         Tandem folks.  Also, by the time a customer needs performancetG >         beyond EV7, the transition to Itanium should be the smootheste >         ever. [snip]  E When a prospect is telling me his beliefs about Alpha/VMS as dead-endrG propositions, I seriously that citing another dead-end proposition will  do much to sway their opinion.   -- h David J. Dachteran dba DJE Systemsn http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/b   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 18 Jun 2002 23:08:40 -0400s- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> B Subject: Re: Call or email hp ... they will answer your questions!, Message-ID: <3D0FF5AA.E78F8CE9@videotron.ca>  F > >         You might try pointing out that MIPS is dead-ended for the > >         Tandem folks    J has a sure death been officially announed for MIPS like it has for Alpha ?   ------------------------------    Date: 18 Jun 2002 13:11:50 -0600- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)W= Subject: Re: can VMS mail block e-mail from certian address'?d3 Message-ID: <CSyXQ0$b0gn0@eisner.encompasserve.org>w  f In article <02061812365835@esonic.e-sonic.com>, wpg_michael@esonic.e-sonic.com (Michael Young) writes: > Hello experts, > L > Can someone walk me through setting up my e-mail acct to block e-mail fromK > certian e-mail address'?  I'm using the MAIL program that comes with VMS.u > O > Sorry if I haven't given enough info to help you show me where to start.  I'mR > new to this.  G    You need to get your system manager to do this.  Where to start thenoF    depends on how the mail is getting to you.  Most likely it's comingD    in via SMTP and the different IP stacks available for VMS provide    different capabilities.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 18 Jun 2002 14:20:36 -0400a1 From: Michael Austin <maustin@firstdbasource.com>u= Subject: Re: can VMS mail block e-mail from certian address'?w2 Message-ID: <3D0F79F4.BB6ECCB8@firstdbasource.com>   Michael Young wrote: >  > Hello experts, > L > Can someone walk me through setting up my e-mail acct to block e-mail fromK > certian e-mail address'?  I'm using the MAIL program that comes with VMS.r > O > Sorry if I haven't given enough info to help you show me where to start.  I'm  > new to this. > 
 > Regards, > Michael Younge >  > Electro Sonic, Winnipegd$ > Phone (204)783-3105, (800)665-1358 > Fax   (204)774-7288e' > e-mail:wpg_michael@esonic.e-sonic.comr  
 example?    A other than mail, what transports are you using? What TCPIP stack?    -- e Regards,  7 Michael Austin            Registered Linux User #261163 7 First DBA Source, Inc.    http://www.firstdbasource.coms Sr. Consultant 704-947-1089 (Office)3 704-236-4377 (Mobile)    ------------------------------    Date: 18 Jun 2002 15:32:28 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)dC Subject: CDSA on VMS (was: howto create self-extracting zip files?)s3 Message-ID: <KqgvwkcPxprz@eisner.encompasserve.org>u  ] In article <3D0F9023.E9D08509@compaq.com>, Wayne Morrison <Wayne.Morrison@compaq.com> writes:h  O > Be sure to read the OpenVMS release note on CDSA, and check out the CDSA bookrQ > in the OpenVMS doc set when they arrive.  Those will detail the few differencesrK > between CDSA on OpenVMS and other platforms.  The book also describes theeL > entire CDSA API, with a chapter on building the supplied example programs.  F Is there real documentation of the VMS entrypoints, or is this anotherF disaster like DECwindows-Motif where only the C-style entrypoints were documented ?   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 18 Jun 2002 22:29:05 GMTt( From: "Tom Simpson" <simpsont@attbi.com>- Subject: Re: CONNECT:Direct wildcard transferh( Message-ID: <RuOP8.435$EP.340@sccrnsc03>  9 How about something like this?     This is from memory...    $LOOP:6 $     cur_file = f$search("DISK$USER:[TEST]FUBAR.*",1). $     if cur_file .eqs. "" Then Goto loop_exit $!' $     COPY 'cur_file'   <to where ever>o $! $     Goto loop  $! $LOOP_EXIT:s $ exit  2 My condolences on your choice of Connect:Direct...   Regards, Toma  E "Xavier Nicolovici" <xavier.nicolovici@citicorp.com> wrote in message07 news:e033a250.0206180656.768a3fc0@posting.google.com...c > Hi,n > G > I'm currently trying to set up a file transfer between a VMS platform B > and an NT one. We have concluded to use, for various reason, the- > CONNECT:Direct tool from Sterling Commerce.o >gF > I would like to transfer a set of file from this VMS platform to theF > NT one, but the only information I have about those file is the fileF > name pattern. A random generated number is added to the filename, inE > order to avoid file overwritting (the file are created from time to  > time). > G > Now, CONNECT:Direct can not perform wildcard file transfer, and I wasaE > wondering, for this simple task, if someone has already developed a G > small script that loops in a particular VMS area, and search for eachI< > existing file to perform a call to the CONNECT:Dircet API. >  > Many thanks in advance,, >i > Xavier Nicolovicie   ------------------------------    Date: 18 Jun 2002 13:02:04 -0600- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)c$ Subject: Re: Could linux become VMS?3 Message-ID: <6BND8suCY6EM@eisner.encompasserve.org>o  ` In article <aenpl3$279m$1@info.cs.uofs.edu>, bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes: > 0 > Failure implies they tried and couldn't do it.  E    Nonsense.  Failure to try still leads to failure to execute.  Note1C    definition "1 a" below.  You're claiming only "1 b" is accurate..      from http://www.m-w.com:p         Main Entry: failure        Pronunciation: 'fA(&)l-y&r       Function: nounJ       Etymology: alteration of earlier failer, from Anglo-French, from Old       French faillir to fail       Date: 1643N       1 a : omission of occurrence or performance; specifically : a failing toM       perform a duty or expected action b : a state of inability to perform a E       normal function <kidney failure> -- compare HEART FAILURE c : ao@       fracturing or giving way under stress <structural failure>B       2 a : lack of success b : a failing in business : BANKRUPTCYL       3 a : a falling short : DEFICIENCY <a crop failure> b : DETERIORATION,       DECAYe       4 : one that has failedi    r   >  The fact is it was C > never wanted and the OS (actually, the file system, of which Unix A > is capable of supporting more than one, meaning a versioning FS C > could be added if anyone really wanted it) doesn't provide things0 > the users don't want.a  8    Now that's where failure did happen. Sun did create a>    versioning file system, but failed to deliver the necessary;    shell tools and such.  Not suprizing it didn't catch on.h   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 18 Jun 2002 13:45:43 -0400o, From: "Frank Sapienza" <sapienza@noesys.com>$ Subject: Re: Could linux become VMS?+ Message-ID: <aenrfh0lbi@enews1.newsguy.com>s  F Thank you, Carl.  Although I'm not the one challenging VMS' ability to= "tee", so the reply is more appropriately directed to Atlant.e  / Not that he's likely to acknowledge it, though.m    4 "Carl Perkins" <carl@gerg.tamu.edu> wrote in message' news:18JUN200200174783@gerg.tamu.edu... 2 > "Frank Sapienza" <sapienza@noesys.com> writes... > }It seems to me D > }that you're retreating and trying to reword your challenge now to	 something   > }else: mimic a "tee" facility. > @ > See HELP PIPE EXAMPLES, example 5. It shows how to do a "tee". > 
 > --- Carl   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 18 Jun 2002 20:01:33 GMT-* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>$ Subject: Re: Could linux become VMS?B Message-ID: <xkMP8.273674$%y.23374911@bin4.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>  > "Bill Gunshannon" <bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu> wrote in message& news:aenpl3$279m$1@info.cs.uofs.edu...   ...m  D > Failure implies they tried and couldn't do it.  The fact is it wasC > never wanted and the OS (actually, the file system, of which UnixrA > is capable of supporting more than one, meaning a versioning FSeC > could be added if anyone really wanted it) doesn't provide things  > the users don't want.h  I Unfortunately, it frequently also fails to provide things that users *do*g want.c  J I happen to agree that file versioning (at least as implemented in VMS) isE an idea that never seemed to offer sufficient benefit to overcome theoJ inertia of existing environments' lack of support for it, and hence now isJ likely more trouble than it's worth (since it's just one more way in whichH VMS is out of step with the rest of the world - and a noticeably awkwardI way, since file access is a major aspect of the way systems interact withs. the wider heterogeneous external environment).  C OTOH, case-sensitive file-naming is a Unix crock (which will becomeeJ increasingly awkward for Unix - as versions are for VMS - unless the worldC turns away from Windows), the absence of standardized record-accessn? mechanisms in Unix (as contrasted with VMS) is an impediment tonF cross-application data-sharing (while I believe that RMS could benefitG significantly from a major interface cleanup/simplification effort, its H *functions* are decidedly useful), and the hodge-podge of mechanisms theE various Unixes have added over the decades to handle asynchronous I/OcJ contrast unfavorably with VMS's clean and comprehensive support of it from Day 1.  L No system is perfect in providing everything users want and *only* what theyK want, if only because needs vary among users.  The advantage of providing a-G richer environment is that people can just use the parts they need; thegF disadvantage is that it's difficult to insulate them *completely* fromJ additional complexity introduced by parts they may not need, and VMS could4 certainly benefit from additional work in this area.   - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 18 Jun 2002 16:08:27 -0400n2 From: Atlant Schmidt <atlantnospam@mindspring.com>$ Subject: Re: Could linux become VMS?. Message-ID: <3D0F933B.70910797@mindspring.com>   Frank Sapienza wrote:   H > Thank you, Carl.  Although I'm not the one challenging VMS' ability to? > "tee", so the reply is more appropriately directed to Atlant.  >o1 > Not that he's likely to acknowledge it, though.t  1 I make it a practice to ignore people who deem meo "an ass or a troll".   Atlant   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2002 00:21:26 +0200s' From: Brass Christof <welcome@spam.not>h$ Subject: Re: Could linux become VMS?( Message-ID: <3D0FB266.97CB4084@spam.not>   Atlant Schmidt wrote:e >  > Brass Christof wrote:j   > > Not only ;-)< > > The contents off all subdirectories fitting this spec is1 > > also displayed which could be rather anoying., > . > Well, much like DCL, all you need is another > qualifier! :-) > 1 > Use "ls -d" to prevent ls from diving down into,7 > subdirectories. Instead, it'll list information abouth& > the [sub]directories, just like VMS.  6 And here we are! I have to add this option if I use a 9 wildcard and I may not add it if I don't use a wildcard.  6 This is regarded as inconsistency. The set of objects 8 selected by the wildcard expression shouldn't depend on  options.   -- P? According to the Quality Assurance Institute C/C++/ObjC, PERL, t@ UNIX (incl. Linux) and Windows/XY are regarded as harmful. Java 0 is slow and the class library is badly designed.7 moc dot slupofni at ssarb - please reverse the sequenceE   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2002 00:31:18 +0200 ' From: Brass Christof <welcome@spam.not>o$ Subject: Re: Could linux become VMS?( Message-ID: <3D0FB4B6.6D505EEA@spam.not>   Atlant Schmidt wrote:1 >  > Bob Koehler wrote: > g > > In article <3D0A216D.66C47ECC@mindspring.com>, Atlant Schmidt <atlantnospam@mindspring.com> writes:. > >09 > > > Have you got a push-directory/pop-directory feature87 > > > in DCL yet? If not, I could probably find my .COMi+ > > > file that used to do that for me. :-)+ > >wJ > >    Yes, of course.  All via .com files.  Same as the one I have in kshL > >    written in ksh functions and much better than the one built into csh. > >  > >    So what?  > & > So DCL *STILL* hasn't got this basic > functionality built in.o > # > Yes,  I can really see where it'st$ > far superior to Unix shells. (NOT)  > There probably a few more features missing in DCL. But that's ? not the point. I don't complain about missing features in UNIX R< and its shells. I complain about the inconsistent way these = features have been implemented and are presented to the user.=  : There might be a lot of good things available in UNIX and = its shells that make the average programmer or sysadmin even  ; more productive than with VMS for a certain range of tasks l: and a limited period of time. But in the mid or long term > and with a general set of tasks the VMS way is more efficient ; and more productive because it minimises errors and offers 5; a set of well designed tools that work seamlessly together.    -- y? According to the Quality Assurance Institute C/C++/ObjC, PERL,  @ UNIX (incl. Linux) and Windows/XY are regarded as harmful. Java 0 is slow and the class library is badly designed.7 moc dot slupofni at ssarb - please reverse the sequence    ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2002 02:07:37 GMT.1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> $ Subject: Re: Could linux become VMS?& Message-ID: <3D0FEB44.4765A7B@fsi.net>   Atlant Schmidt wrote:  > [snip]5 > Have you got a push-directory/pop-directory features3 > in DCL yet? If not, I could probably find my .COM ' > file that used to do that for me. :-)i  4 I'd have to ask the question: Why is that important?  H Hint: If you "cd" or SET DEAFULT to avoid having to specify pathnames inC the parameters to your commands, and not because some software only A works from the cwd, then I'd have to suggest that you may want to  re-evaluate your methodology.p   --   David J. DachteraH dba DJE Systemsl http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2002 13:38:51 +0010_% From: paddy.o'brien@zzz.tg.nsw.gov.au_$ Subject: Re: Could linux become VMS?5 Message-ID: <01KJ47R5A5QQ001IOG@tgmail.tg.nsw.gov.au>o   Bill Todd wrote (in part):K >I happen to agree that file versioning (at least as implemented in VMS) isnF >an idea that never seemed to offer sufficient benefit to overcome theK >inertia of existing environments' lack of support for it, and hence now is_K >likely more trouble than it's worth (since it's just one more way in whichdI >VMS is out of step with the rest of the world - and a noticeably awkwardoJ >way, since file access is a major aspect of the way systems interact with/ >the wider heterogeneous external environment).p  M My belief is that "the rest of the world" is lacking a very useful feature.   N After about 18 years on VMS with versioning, I can only imagine how much more K productive I could have been as a programmer on my previous OSes.  Without sL going into details of how I work, I am sure that if I am forced onto a Unix A box, or (even worse) Windoze, my output will noticeably diminish.    Regards, Paddy   ------------------------------    Date: 18 Jun 2002 13:14:49 -0600- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)fA Subject: Re: Disaster Tolerant advertising using Fortune magazinen3 Message-ID: <meCKZQpSyr3r@eisner.encompasserve.org>i  q In article <cf15391e.0206180938.49f5c72d@posting.google.com>, keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com (Keith Parris) writes:>  G > A four-page cover wrapper around the May 28 issue of Fortune magazinea   [...]    > and described how OpenVMS       Hallelujah!   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 18 Jun 2002 18:21:40 GMTd# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> A Subject: Re: Disaster Tolerant advertising using Fortune magazinenJ Message-ID: <USKP8.384265$t8_.284267@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>  L It would be smart if HP put these ads on their web site, linked by operatingI system, hardware platform, publication, and date, so that those who don't L see the cover wrapper can find the ad at a later date, or print it for theirG managers who only read the grocery store checkout lane newspapers abouti aliens found in Roswell.    > "Keith Parris" <keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com> wrote in message7 news:cf15391e.0206180938.49f5c72d@posting.google.com...sG > A four-page cover wrapper around the May 28 issue of Fortune magazineiF > advertised HPQ's Disaster Tolerant Solutions.  The advertisement wasB > entitled 'Improve Your ROI While Meeting Your Disaster ToleranceA > Needs', and described how OpenVMS and Tru64 Unix on AlphaServerw< > systems, along with StorageWorks, can ensure that data and$ > applications are always available. >rH > This is the type of OpenVMS advertising I like to see -- in mainstreamE > media.  And Disaster Tolerance is a hot topic in the IT world, postv, > 9/11, and an area where VMS really shines. >gH > Now I'd like to see more, in places like Business Week and Forbes (forE > the CEOs) and in Computerworld and Information Week (for the CIOs),  > and so forth.-< > ----------------------------------------------------------< > Keith Parris | parris <at> DECUServe <dot> decus <dot> org   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 18 Jun 2002 18:23:48 GMTc# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>8A Subject: Re: Disaster Tolerant advertising using Fortune magazineeH Message-ID: <UUKP8.63647$831.31375@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>  , It would also be nice if HP fixed this link:   http://www.hp.com/openvmss      > "Keith Parris" <keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com> wrote in message7 news:cf15391e.0206180938.49f5c72d@posting.google.com...RG > A four-page cover wrapper around the May 28 issue of Fortune magazinehF > advertised HPQ's Disaster Tolerant Solutions.  The advertisement wasB > entitled 'Improve Your ROI While Meeting Your Disaster ToleranceA > Needs', and described how OpenVMS and Tru64 Unix on AlphaServer-< > systems, along with StorageWorks, can ensure that data and$ > applications are always available. >cH > This is the type of OpenVMS advertising I like to see -- in mainstreamE > media.  And Disaster Tolerance is a hot topic in the IT world, post , > 9/11, and an area where VMS really shines. >hH > Now I'd like to see more, in places like Business Week and Forbes (forE > the CEOs) and in Computerworld and Information Week (for the CIOs),f > and so forth.e< > ----------------------------------------------------------< > Keith Parris | parris <at> DECUServe <dot> decus <dot> org   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 18 Jun 2002 19:43:06 +0000 2 From: John Eisenschmidt <jweisen@eisenschmidt.org>A Subject: Re: Disaster Tolerant advertising using Fortune magazinek4 Message-ID: <20020618194306.E30373@eisenschmidt.org>  2I can't imagine that rolling HP-UX and Tru64 would be remotely easy. May make sense to keep HP-UX for PA-RISC and Itanic, Tru for Alphas, bring the best of Tru64 into HP-UX over the next couple years and add a binary compatability layer. As we've heard here, Alpha won't be going away for a few more years.  N Unless the Voices are Mistaken, JF Mezei (jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca) Wrote: > Keith Parris wrote:E > > I > > A four-page cover wrapper around the May 28 issue of Fortune magazinesH > > advertised HPQ's Disaster Tolerant Solutions.  The advertisement wasD > > entitled 'Improve Your ROI While Meeting Your Disaster ToleranceC > > Needs', and described how OpenVMS and Tru64 Unix on AlphaServero> > > systems, along with StorageWorks, can ensure that data and& > > applications are always available. > L > That is most interesting when you consider all the speeches 2 weeks beforeM > that when the "new" HP was unveiled with its famous roadmap gave a distinct-- > impression that Tru64 wouldn't be marketed.u > O > I wonder if HP realised the big mistake in made and how its pronouncements ofDO > early may would generate a much bigger drop in sales (and customers) than hado> > anticipated and HP must now do some serious damage control ?   -- e/ John W. Eisenschmidt <jweisen@eisenschmidt.org>f6  Homepage URL    | http://www.eisenschmidt.org/jweisenM  PGP Public Key  | http://www.eisenschmidt.org/jweisen/misc/jeisenschmidt.asc D  PGP Fingerprint | 5F9B F916 5AD1 3295 CF99 BC1E 1F97 E6A3 37E3 BEF2  O FOO MANE PADME HUM: "Our first obligation is to keep the FOO counters turning."a   ------------------------------    Date: 18 Jun 2002 15:25:10 -07001 From: keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com (Keith Parris)SA Subject: Re: Disaster Tolerant advertising using Fortune magaziner< Message-ID: <cf15391e.0206181425.cf57eb4@posting.google.com>  s "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> wrote in message news:<UUKP8.63647$831.31375@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>...u. > It would also be nice if HP fixed this link: >  > http://www.hp.com/openvmsh  0 Try http://www.hp.com/products/openvms/ instead.: ----------------------------------------------------------: Keith Parris | parris <at> DECUServe <dot> decus <dot> org   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 18 Jun 2002 22:29:11 GMT * From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>A Subject: Re: Disaster Tolerant advertising using Fortune magazineoB Message-ID: <XuOP8.301404$Gs.23902216@bin5.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>  ? "John Eisenschmidt" <jweisen@eisenschmidt.org> wrote in message0. news:20020618194306.E30373@eisenschmidt.org...J > I can't imagine that rolling HP-UX and Tru64 would be remotely easy. MayJ make sense to keep HP-UX for PA-RISC and Itanic, Tru for Alphas, bring the3 best of Tru64 into HP-UX over the next couple yearse  J Making HP-UX anything like a proper functional superset of Tru64 - or evenL the more limited objective of incorporating AdvFS and clustering - will takeK a good deal longer than two years (unless you don't think any field-testing  will be necessary...).  &  and add a binary compatability layer.  E Binary compatibility between little-endian and a big-endian platformsnL running on completely different hardware is something I won't hold my breath waiting for - ever.r   - bill   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 18 Jun 2002 22:33:27 GMTa* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>A Subject: Re: Disaster Tolerant advertising using Fortune magazine @ Message-ID: <XyOP8.21332$_j6.966662@bin3.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>  > "Keith Parris" <keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com> wrote in message7 news:cf15391e.0206180938.49f5c72d@posting.google.com...fG > A four-page cover wrapper around the May 28 issue of Fortune magazine F > advertised HPQ's Disaster Tolerant Solutions.  The advertisement wasB > entitled 'Improve Your ROI While Meeting Your Disaster ToleranceA > Needs', and described how OpenVMS and Tru64 Unix on AlphaServert< > systems, along with StorageWorks, can ensure that data and$ > applications are always available.  E Well, stone the crows!  Just VMS and Tru64, not HP-UX or even Tandem?c@ Anyone feel like scanning it and making it available for a look?  H Of course, if it's a one-shot then it doesn't mean much (except to raiseL curiosity about what caused it).  But if it proves to be the first shot of a
 barrage...   - bill   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2002 03:00:01 GMTe1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>lA Subject: Re: Disaster Tolerant advertising using Fortune magaziney' Message-ID: <3D0FF78B.BA6C75BF@fsi.net>e   Keith Parris wrote:e > G > A four-page cover wrapper around the May 28 issue of Fortune magazineeF > advertised HPQ's Disaster Tolerant Solutions.  The advertisement wasB > entitled 'Improve Your ROI While Meeting Your Disaster ToleranceA > Needs', and described how OpenVMS and Tru64 Unix on AlphaServerm< > systems, along with StorageWorks, can ensure that data and$ > applications are always available. > H > This is the type of OpenVMS advertising I like to see -- in mainstreamE > media.  And Disaster Tolerance is a hot topic in the IT world, post4, > 9/11, and an area where VMS really shines. > H > Now I'd like to see more, in places like Business Week and Forbes (forE > the CEOs) and in Computerworld and Information Week (for the CIOs),  > and so forth.    Careful, everyone!  G Remember how DEC / Q (/ HP?) work: just before they axe something, theyrD promote the hell out of it. (Why? Your guess is as good as their's!)  B Of course I'm happy to see (hear of?) it. I just hope it's not the beginning of the end.y   -- a David J. Dachterag dba DJE Systemsg http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/n   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 18 Jun 2002 20:03:44 GMTt0 From: Wayne Morrison <Wayne.Morrison@compaq.com>4 Subject: Re: howto create self-extracting zip files?* Message-ID: <3D0F9023.E9D08509@compaq.com>   Paul Sture wrote:o ... ' > What plans are there for this on VMS?n > H > For others, Not having heard of CDSA before, I managed to find this at, > http://www.tru64unix.compaq.com/unix/cdsa/ > 1 > "CDSA( Common Data Security Architecture) R3.12b > I > CDSA is a multi-platform, industry standard security infrastructure. Itr? > provides a standards-based, stable programming interface thataI > applications can use to access operating system security services, suchrE > as cryptography and other public key operations. These requests areiI > serviced by a set of plug-in security service modules (SPIs), which cannG > be supplemented or changed as business needs and technologies evolve.i > H > Note this is an Advance Developer's Kit and is provided for evaluationH > and experimentation purposes. While we welcome your feedback, this kitH > is provided on an as-is basis and is not a supported part of the Tru64I > UNIX Operating System. It should not be used for critical or productiond > applications.v > 3 > Note: This kit requires Tru64 UNIX V5.1 or 5.1A."   N The above is generally applicable to CDSA on OpenVMS as well, with a few minor changes:  '   o CDSA is a supported part of OpenVMSe8   o CDSA ships as a required component of OpenVMS V7.3-12     - You'll get it automatically when you upgradeJ     - It needs to be configured prior to use (but not if you never use it)  J For those who are interested in CDSA, but can't wait for OpenVMS V7.3-1 to> arrive, generic documentation is available from SourceForge atI http://sourceforge.net/projects/cdsa/ under "Latest File Releases" in thee cdsadocs section.m  M Be sure to read the OpenVMS release note on CDSA, and check out the CDSA book O in the OpenVMS doc set when they arrive.  Those will detail the few differencestI between CDSA on OpenVMS and other platforms.  The book also describes the2J entire CDSA API, with a chapter on building the supplied example programs.  O More functionality, additional examples, and enhanced documentation are plannedo for a future release.t   	Wayne Morrisono 	CDSA Project Leader 	OpenVMS Security groupr   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 18 Jun 2002 13:58:04 -0500,+ From: Chuck Aaron <caaron@ceris.purdue.edu>a+ Subject: http osu web server open vms 7.2-2o0 Message-ID: <3D0F82BC.2D07ED0A@ceris.purdue.edu>   Members,  @ Just rebooted my alpha 800 server running 7.2-2. Tried to accessB one of our web sites to test, clicked on NY and then clicked on NYE state pesticide from the following address and got the message below.aB It should be displaying a page and instead getting this error. Any. ideas running the OSU web server on vms 7.2-2.   Chuck AaronQ     http://STATE.ceris.purdue.edu/      E <body bgcolor='#FFFFFF' text='#000055' link='#0000EE' vlink='#551A8B'  alink='#0000EE'l   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 18 Jun 2002 20:58:35 -0400t1 From: Michael Austin <maustin@firstdbasource.com>a/ Subject: Re: http osu web server open vms 7.2-2 2 Message-ID: <3D0FD73B.769345DE@firstdbasource.com>   Chuck Aaron wrote: > 
 > Members, > B > Just rebooted my alpha 800 server running 7.2-2. Tried to accessD > one of our web sites to test, clicked on NY and then clicked on NYG > state pesticide from the following address and got the message below.iD > It should be displaying a page and instead getting this error. Any0 > ideas running the OSU web server on vms 7.2-2. > 
 > Chuck Aaronw >   > http://STATE.ceris.purdue.edu/ > G > <body bgcolor='#FFFFFF' text='#000055' link='#0000EE' vlink='#551A8B'u > alink='#0000EE'o  E Looks like your link is broken or your CGI is messed up. look at youro htbin/stweb.comu  D Usually I leave off the ".com" and let the server figure out what isG executable.  Sometimes the browsers try to download the file instead ofi
 executing it.t  H If you need assistance, there are a few of us who - for a fee :) can fixE this kind of stuff.. or if it is simple enough and you post your .comvC file here, we can tell you what's wrong with it for free.  Althougha donations are alway welcome :)   -- n Regards,  7 Michael Austin            Registered Linux User #261163o7 First DBA Source, Inc.    http://www.firstdbasource.comlE Sr. Consultant            http://www.firstdbasource.com/donation.htmla 704-947-1089 (Office)h 704-236-4377 (Mobile)i   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 18 Jun 2002 20:11:23 GMT 1 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com>rH Subject: Re: Interesting ZDnet post about Tandem -- Can VMS do the same?= Message-ID: <LtMP8.89752$6m5.75350@rwcrnsc51.ops.asp.att.net>J  8 "Rob Young" <young_r@encompasserve.org> wrote in message- news:MwCJ39LGqhkW@eisner.encompasserve.org...e7 > In article <3D0F6E3B.B632265E@videotron.ca>, JF Mezeiu& <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> writes: >e > >dH > > At the time Tandem was told to use Alpha, (I assume under Pfeiffer's helm)4K > > were Tandem engineers unhappy about Alpha itself, or just the change in- course ? > >iK > > Considering EV7 is to be ready this year, how close to a completed porte toJ > > Alpha had the Tandem engineers gotten by June 25 of 2001 ? Considering IA64J > > won't be ready for another few years, Alpha would have still delivered better' > > performance for Tandem much sooner.c  I Not all that close, from what I hear. Note that EV7 Pass One parts didn'to2 even boot until two weeks after the Day of Infamy.  H Unknown what the Yosemite folks were doing with EV7 emulators, though...   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 18 Jun 2002 20:59:11 GMT-* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>H Subject: Re: Interesting ZDnet post about Tandem -- Can VMS do the same?B Message-ID: <zaNP8.274234$%y.23403941@bin4.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>  8 "Rob Young" <young_r@encompasserve.org> wrote in message- news:MwCJ39LGqhkW@eisner.encompasserve.org...e   ...   ) > Here is a prognostication.  I'm willing B > to wager that Itanium servers have the highest price performance9 > metrics for 64-bit servers - until Hamster comes along.t >b6 > http://news.com.com/2100-1001-936936.html?tag=fd_top > K > However, Sun's prices go up steeply. A four-processor server with 16GB ofwK > memory costs $46,995, and a four-processor model with 32GB of memory goese forr
 > $99,995. >e > [snip] >oH > A four-processor Itanium 2 system will cost about $41,000 with 32GB of memory,uE > said Vaughn Mackie, enterprise platform marketing manager at Intel,  speaking at  > a media event Friday.   I You must have read a different version of the article than the one I justo& read using your URL above, which says:  F "A four-processor Itanium 2 system will cost about $41,000 with 8GB ofK memory, said Vaughn Mackie, enterprise platform marketing manager at Intel,0" speaking at a media event Friday."  E The difference between 32 GB and 8 GB for the $41K Itanic2 system (asuK contrasted with Sun's 16 GB for $47K) makes a significant difference in the , price/performance conclusion one might draw.  # The Register had a similar article:h  - http://www.theregus.com/content/53/25276.htmlo  J Pertinent points included that the entry-level (2-processor) Sun box costsJ about 10% less than a Dell PowerEdge 6650 with two 1.6 GHz Xeon processorsK running Win2KAS (otherwise similar in configuration), about 20% less than auI similar IBM dual-Xeon box, and about 30% less than a similar HP dual-XeonDJ box.  I'm hardly sufficiently conversant with all these boxes to guaranteeH that better price/performance deals aren't available, but unless there'sL some obvious indication of bias by the reporter there's no obvious reason to
 assume it.  H A rough estimate suggests that Sun gets $2K - $3K/GB for memory in thoseJ boxes (and the single data points for both Itanic and the Xeon boxes don'tH suggest that their memory is sold any more cheaply).  Clearly that alone, gives them all significant manouvering room.   >c >.# > It will only get better for IA64.d   It could hardly get much worse.n     Intel is set on making it ao< > success and willing to spend tons of money in the process.  H That hasn't helped them yet, so the source of your confidence in a major sea-change is unclear.   ...S  D > IA64 *systems* will stay tens of thousands of dollars cheaper than > RISC,o  L Since they aren't yet *any* less expensive than RISC, they can hardly 'stay'	 that way.   :  doing two things... ensuring market adoption and knockingD > margins from under non-IA64.  And Hamster will ensure IA64 systems > stay "cheap."t  H Hammer is more likely to ensure that they become an even more endangeredE species than they already are.  Anywhere that IA64 and Hammer compete I directly, Hammer will win decisively on price/performance:  Itanic's onlysL hope is that there's sufficient area where they *don't* compete directly for it to survive.   >uF > And yes, Alpha still could have been going strong flourishing in its > niche even years from now.  2 The one point on which we seem to be in agreement.   - bill   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 18 Jun 2002 21:16:41 GMTh* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>H Subject: Re: Interesting ZDnet post about Tandem -- Can VMS do the same?B Message-ID: <ZqNP8.312599$Kp.24016108@bin7.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>  : "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message& news:3D0F6E3B.B632265E@videotron.ca...   ...a  I > At the time Tandem made the decision to go with IA64, wasn't IA64 stilllL > supposed to be something very succesful that Intel was about to develop as at > replacement for the 8086 ?   Yes.  0  And at that time, wasn't MIPS going to die veryH > fast with IA64 the only offer in the foreseable future with lockstep ?   Yes.   >iH > At the time Compaq told Tandem to switch to Alpha, weren't there signs alreadyeK > that IA64 wasn't going to be the replacement for the 8086 and that it wass4 > going to be quite late and just for the high end ?  J Yes, at least early such signs.  Pfeiffer made at least one comment in theL summer of 1998 to the effect that Alpha would be at least two years ahead ofG Itanic technology if/when Itanic appeared, and that assessment seems if B anything to have been conservative - even given Alpha's subsequent significant schedule slips.:   >sI > At the time Tandem decided to eventually dump MIPS, did they attempt to0 talkD > to Digital about using Alpha and getting Digital to add lockstep ?  G I suppose it's possible (given that Apple once reportedly did something I similar and got rebuffed), but moving to the chip of a direct competitor,rI especially when an 800-pound non-competitior is hawking a future miracle, $ would seem an unlikely first choice.     If Palmer F > made sure that Tandem wouldn't choose Alpha, then he should be shot. >sL > At the time Tandem was told to use Alpha, (I assume under Pfeiffer's helm)I > were Tandem engineers unhappy about Alpha itself, or just the change ini course ?  K My completely uninformed guess would be the latter, especially if they weredJ as snowed regarding the coming Itanic Miracle as many people still seem to be even today.   >sL > Considering EV7 is to be ready this year, how close to a completed port to< > Alpha had the Tandem engineers gotten by June 25 of 2001 ?   I have no idea.e    Considering IA64vH > won't be ready for another few years, Alpha would have still delivered better% > performance for Tandem much sooner.i  L Absolutely (though it's the NSK port to Itanic that will hold things up:  ifG the port were done, they presumably could run - well, crawl - on MercedeK today).  But while that might have pleased customers, Compaq clearly didn'tiK consider it significant (probably believing that most customers were prettyg well locked in already).   >tL > Had Compaq not killed Alpha and instead waited until 2005 or whenever IA64 > actually outperforms the 8086   J No chance of that happening before 2006-7.  Probably very little chance ofH it then (and even less had they not acquired the Alpha team).  Also zeroF chance that it would *ever* have matched Alpha's performance had Alpha development continued.  -  then completing the port to Alpha might have-F > been a good idea. And the added volume for Alpha wouldn't have hurt.   Well, yuh...   - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 18 Jun 2002 19:33:07 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> H Subject: Re: Interesting ZDnet post about Tandem -- Can VMS do the same?, Message-ID: <3D0FC332.B64E3457@videotron.ca>   Rob Young wrote:L >         IA64 *systems* will stay tens of thousands of dollars cheaper thanI >         RISC, doing two things... ensuring market adoption and knockingo& >         margins from under non-IA64.    K If it turns out that Intel subsidizes IA64 based systems to an amount worth0J more than the CPU, then it would be a clear anti-trust issue. And if IntelL doesn't subsidize the chip to a tune of "tens of thousands of dollars", thenB the systems won't sell for "tens of thousands of dollars cheaper".  L Even the deal between Intel and Compaq to murder Alpha in exchange for Intel> paying for the port of VMS and Tandem should be very doubtful.   ------------------------------    Date: 18 Jun 2002 18:28:22 -0700( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)3 Subject: Itanium 2 beats Sun Sparky in performance!a= Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0206181728.7202cc45@posting.google.com>n  ? better start looking for a new job Andrew ... not exactly Alpha.? stuff, but give the Alpha engineers time to put EV8-9 stuff in,l- then in about 3-4 years, it will be there ...a    
 June 3, 2002 o= Intel Findings Show Itanium 2 Beats Sun Server in Performance- By  Ken Popovich -  E Intel Corp. says its upcoming 1ghz Itanium 2 chip will outperform SunrD Microsystems Inc.'s yet-to-be-released 1GHz UltraSPARC III, based onD Intel's own estimates, and will deliver twice the performance of the chip's predecessor."  E At the Intel Developers Forum in Munich, Germany, last week, the chip8F maker offered the most details released to date on its next-generationD processor, due this summer. Code-named McKinley, Itanium 2 is viewedD as Intel's first true threat to take market share away from high-end0 Unix vendors such as market leaders Sun and IBM.  C In addition to performance, Intel contends its Itanium systems willwC cost less than offerings from Sun and IBM, a selling point noted by  system managers.  D "We're looking at problems with large data sets, and this appears toA be an inexpensive approach to tackling those problems compared tocC alternative solutions," said Mahlon Stacy, system administrator for 4 Mayo Foundation Medical Science, in Rochester, Minn.  D The findings released by Intel show that in a comparison focusing onC Internet-based commerce, a two-processor Itanium 2 server prototypeeC running the RSA SSL-C benchmark performed 1,440 secure transactionsi? per second, nearly three times the performances of an eight-CPUt UltraSPARC III server.  B In addition, looking at large database and transaction processing,D Intel estimates a four-chip Itanium 2 system will support 50 percentE more transactions per minute than a comparable UltraSPARC III system.TF Furthermore, in high-performance scientific and technical computing, aF four- processor Itanium 2 system running the MP Linkpack 10K benchmarkC achieved a performance of more than 13 gigaflops, nearly double thed2 performance of a comparable UltraSPARC III system.  B The results, however, should be viewed with skepticism, given thatC official benchmarks won't be available until computer makers submit 0 their Itanium 2 systems for third-party testing.  D "They are definitely playing to their strengths and highlighting the@ benchmarks they do well at," said Kevin Krewell, an analyst withD In-Stat/MDR, in Sunnyvale, Calif. "But some of the benchmarks reallyB require full systems tests, so performance will be impacted by the- type and amount of memory, hard drives, etc."   > Krewell also noted that Intel, of Santa Clara, Calif., avoided: comparisons with IBM's Power4, widely considered to be the- highest-performing 64-bit chip on the market.   E An Intel spokeswoman said the company focused on Sun because it's ther! leading seller of 64-bit systems.c  @ Sun said Intel's estimates don't reflect real-world performance,D contending the benchmarks run on Itanium 2 would easily fit into theC chip's large 3MB Level 3 on-die cache. The UltraSPARC III relies ong@ external cache and is designed to address the demands of heftierA business applications, said officials with the Palo Alto, Calif.,h company.  B Even though Itanium is a relatively new chip, having been released8 last year, the processor's impact is already being felt.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 18 Jun 2002 19:40:28 -0700 # From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com>g7 Subject: RE: Itanium 2 beats Sun Sparky in performance!i9 Message-ID: <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIEEGIFDAA.tom@kednos.com>S  4 I would think that IBM is at worst bemused.  This is: not a press report, but a press release.  My guess is that: it will take several years for Intel to match the Power PC7 at the semiconductor level, not to mention that it will < never match it architecturally.  It probably is a camel, not a horse.   >-----Original Message-----s0 >From: Bob Ceculski [mailto:bob@instantwhip.com]% >Sent: Tuesday, June 18, 2002 6:28 PMs >To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com4 >Subject: Itanium 2 beats Sun Sparky in performance! >  >O@ >better start looking for a new job Andrew ... not exactly Alpha@ >stuff, but give the Alpha engineers time to put EV8-9 stuff in,. >then in about 3-4 years, it will be there ... >n >u >June 3, 2002 > >Intel Findings Show Itanium 2 Beats Sun Server in Performance >By  Ken Popovich  >rF >Intel Corp. says its upcoming 1ghz Itanium 2 chip will outperform SunE >Microsystems Inc.'s yet-to-be-released 1GHz UltraSPARC III, based onnE >Intel's own estimates, and will deliver twice the performance of then >chip's predecessor. > F >At the Intel Developers Forum in Munich, Germany, last week, the chipG >maker offered the most details released to date on its next-generationwE >processor, due this summer. Code-named McKinley, Itanium 2 is viewed E >as Intel's first true threat to take market share away from high-endm1 >Unix vendors such as market leaders Sun and IBM.e >nD >In addition to performance, Intel contends its Itanium systems willD >cost less than offerings from Sun and IBM, a selling point noted by >system managers.  >eE >"We're looking at problems with large data sets, and this appears todB >be an inexpensive approach to tackling those problems compared toD >alternative solutions," said Mahlon Stacy, system administrator for5 >Mayo Foundation Medical Science, in Rochester, Minn.o >wE >The findings released by Intel show that in a comparison focusing on D >Internet-based commerce, a two-processor Itanium 2 server prototypeD >running the RSA SSL-C benchmark performed 1,440 secure transactions@ >per second, nearly three times the performances of an eight-CPU >UltraSPARC III server.b > C >In addition, looking at large database and transaction processing,nE >Intel estimates a four-chip Itanium 2 system will support 50 percent2F >more transactions per minute than a comparable UltraSPARC III system.G >Furthermore, in high-performance scientific and technical computing, a3G >four- processor Itanium 2 system running the MP Linkpack 10K benchmarktD >achieved a performance of more than 13 gigaflops, nearly double the3 >performance of a comparable UltraSPARC III system.d > C >The results, however, should be viewed with skepticism, given thatbD >official benchmarks won't be available until computer makers submit1 >their Itanium 2 systems for third-party testing.. >.E >"They are definitely playing to their strengths and highlighting the A >benchmarks they do well at," said Kevin Krewell, an analyst with E >In-Stat/MDR, in Sunnyvale, Calif. "But some of the benchmarks reallydC >require full systems tests, so performance will be impacted by the". >type and amount of memory, hard drives, etc." > ? >Krewell also noted that Intel, of Santa Clara, Calif., avoidedc; >comparisons with IBM's Power4, widely considered to be theh. >highest-performing 64-bit chip on the market. >fF >An Intel spokeswoman said the company focused on Sun because it's the" >leading seller of 64-bit systems. >gA >Sun said Intel's estimates don't reflect real-world performance,tE >contending the benchmarks run on Itanium 2 would easily fit into the D >chip's large 3MB Level 3 on-die cache. The UltraSPARC III relies onA >external cache and is designed to address the demands of heftier3B >business applications, said officials with the Palo Alto, Calif.,	 >company.2 >MC >Even though Itanium is a relatively new chip, having been releasedI9 >last year, the processor's impact is already being felt.  >s >---' >Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.p; >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).n@ >Version: 6.0.370 / Virus Database: 205 - Release Date: 6/5/2002 >e ---F& Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.: Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).? Version: 6.0.370 / Virus Database: 205 - Release Date: 6/5/2002e   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 18 Jun 2002 21:36:23 GMTh* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>& Subject: Re: Linus' comments about VMS@ Message-ID: <rJNP8.16001$8i1.963656@bin2.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>  8 "Rob Young" <young_r@encompasserve.org> wrote in message- news:P1qWT6iLARuU@eisner.encompasserve.org...l   ...   = > It is entertaining sometimes to poke fun at prognosticatorsc< > (me included) as they often miss the mark.  But who woulda > thunk it?i >w; > http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/opensources/book/appa.html  >kE > RISC chips happened, and some of them are running at over 100 MIPS.-	 Speeds ofeH > 200 MIPS and more are likely in the coming years. These things are not going toL > suddenly vanish.  What is going to happen is that they will gradually take overI > from the 80x86 line.  They will run old MS-DOS programs by interpretinge thea > 80386 in software. >aB > What cracks me up in that prognostication isn't the obvious (x86 > going away - NOT).  J While it didn't it had a chance to:  that was, after all, the course AlphaI was supposed to take (become an industry-standard platform that could runpH x86 binaries via emulation) at the time that was written.  The fact thatL Palmer would completely derail any such effort was hardly foreseeable at theH time:  if he hadn't, then Intel and AMD might no longer be tearing theirK hair out emulating x86 in hardware (and Transmeta wouldn't have had a niche0
 to enter).  2  but that in light of NT (he mentions it elsewhere? > and it not being out) he didn't assume that MS-DOS would be ad > wimper in 4, 5 or 10 years.f  H Well, it's 10 years later and at least *sales* of MS-DOS-derived systemsK (Win9x and Me) are pretty well becoming a whimper.  Funny, though:  both inwL assuming that RISC would prevail and in *not* assuming that NT would prevailJ he was a great deal more optimistic (and at least somewhat more prescient), about DEC's products than DEC itself became.   - bill   ------------------------------    Date: 19 Jun 2002 05:31:21 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>& Subject: Re: Linus' comments about VMS- Message-ID: <87u1o02s0m.fsf@prep.synonet.com>   2 prune@ZAnkh-Morpork.mv.com (Paul Winalski) writes:  ? > Unix at least went through a major rewrite in the late 1980s.i@ > Modern Unixes (Linux, Tru64) are microkernel-based.  Under theA > covers, there's very little left of the original AT&T code.  InoE > contrast, VMS inside still is to a great extent warmed-over RSX-11Mf > in design.  B I'm glad you mentioned RSX :) And point out that the unix unwashed+ finally got a loadable clue 20 years later.    -- v< Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.g@                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 18 Jun 2002 22:13:31 GMTg* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>I Subject: Re: Location of DLM papers ?, was: Re: Linus' comments about VMSeB Message-ID: <fgOP8.313926$Kp.24048631@bin7.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>  L "Jim Johnson" <Jim.Johnson@software-exploration.nospam.com> wrote in message* news:3d0f3424.25455382@news.demon.co.uk...A > At least one of them is J.N. Gray, "Notes on Database OperatingeD > Systems," in Operating Systems: An Advanced Course, R. Bayer et al+ > eds., pp.393-481, Springer- Verlag, 1978.g  J Not only have I never been able to find that paper on line, but I've neverL been able to locate it in the Springer-Verlag compendia (I forget the title,J but they're silver-gray bound and approach The Great Gray Wall in size) atE the local establishment of higher learning.  So any pointers would bec appreciated by me as well.   - bill   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2002 02:39:50 GMT ? From: Jim.Johnson@software-exploration.nospam.com (Jim Johnson)iI Subject: Re: Location of DLM papers ?, was: Re: Linus' comments about VMS / Message-ID: <3d0fee1a.1279439@news.demon.co.uk>-  @ Wish I could give you an online pointer.  I looked it up throughD Google, which is how I got the attribution.  Unfortunately, the copy@ (of the article) that I read was about a 5th generation xerox...  D ... and I've always wanted to find the book so I could see what else
 was in it ...e   Jim.  F On Tue, 18 Jun 2002 22:13:31 GMT, "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote:   >oM >"Jim Johnson" <Jim.Johnson@software-exploration.nospam.com> wrote in messageI+ >news:3d0f3424.25455382@news.demon.co.uk...nB >> At least one of them is J.N. Gray, "Notes on Database OperatingE >> Systems," in Operating Systems: An Advanced Course, R. Bayer et al , >> eds., pp.393-481, Springer- Verlag, 1978. >lK >Not only have I never been able to find that paper on line, but I've nevertM >been able to locate it in the Springer-Verlag compendia (I forget the title, K >but they're silver-gray bound and approach The Great Gray Wall in size) at F >the local establishment of higher learning.  So any pointers would be >appreciated by me as well.  >a >- billn >t >n >g   Jim Johnsonc Software Exploration, Ltd.) (remove '.nospam' from the reply address)a   ------------------------------   Date: 18 Jun 2002 23:43 CDT:' From: carl@gerg.tamu.edu (Carl Perkins)v Subject: Re: misc Qns - Message-ID: <18JUN200223430449@gerg.tamu.edu>g  A Kesav Tadimeti <Kesav.Tadimeti@signaltreesolutions.com> writes...l }Hello all, " }as usual I am sorry for the MIME.  " You really should try to fix that.  M }1. How to see memory processes usage like in Task Manager? Is it the Commandi }monitor /proc = topcpu?    C Well, no. If you tried that command you'd find that it doesn't work  due to improper syntax.s  G To get a list of all processes and how much memory they are using whichAH updates periodically, you can use MONITOR PROCESS. This gives you memoryL usage, I/O count, pagefault count, and CPU time. You can change the intervalG for updating by adding the /INTERVAL=x qualifier, where "x" is seconds.   L }2. My PC key Delete is mapped to VT REM key. SUppose I am at a command lineI }as in $show symbol, & I place the the cursor under the character 'w' and I }press the delete key to simulate REM, the command gets recalled on a newd }prompt like shown below:  }	$show symbol }	$show symbol0 }Does REM key not work as DELETE key in wondows?  F Apparently not. Normally the "backspace" key is the only delete key onF a VT (or VMS) type keyboard, deleting the character to the left of theE cursor position. The "Remove" key doesn't delete anything in DCL - in I various editors it does a "cut" on a selected piece of text (the "Select"nH key also does nothing at the DCL prompt - and all the other keys on thatE little editing keypad also don't actually do anything useful either).0  L }3. What is the command to see the processor clock speed, ram etc. SHOW CPU?9 }Also how can I know the EV version (in case of an Alpha)   G SHOW MEMORY will show you how much memory the system has. SHOW CPU/FULLaC will tell you some stuff, but probably not what yu are looking for.m  9 To get more info about the processor you need to use SDA:v	 $ ana/sysa SDA> clue config  K This gives bunches of information including what "EV" type the processor is-I and what the cycle time (and equivalent MHz rating) for it is, all on theF  first page of information given.  L }4. What is the significance of SET GOLD KEY, SET KEYPAD EDT. SET KEYPAD WPS }in TPU? }Kesav  I The keyboard has states, including the normal state and the "GOLD" state. K What a key does depends on the state. You can set which key will switch younJ to the GOLD state when it is pressed. This is not unlike using the ALT keyG for various things in Windows except the state persists after you press H the key - you don't press the GOLD key and another key at the same time,H you press the GOLD key to get into the GOLD state and then press anotherH key which does its GOLD state function instead of what it normally does.  E The numerical keypad keys are usually set as shortcuts to do commandsaI rather than just enter numbers. There are (at least) two sets of commandsyC that TPU knows by default. The EDT keypad setting uses the same key2I definitions as the EDT editor. The WPS keypad uses a different set (whichaH was used, if I recall correctly, by a lot of people using various officeJ automation programs like All-In-1 - I don't know what "WPS" stands for butJ maybe it has something to do with Word Perfect, which used to run on VMS).' Most people seem to use the EDT keypad.h  G Using keypad commands from most PC terminal emulators doesn't work veryrD well. PC keypads are missing a key (on real VT, and other VMS style,E keyboards the rightmost column of keys on the keypad has 4 keys where-E PC keyboards have only 3) and the "num-lock" key doesn't seem to like H to get mapped to a function, which is bad because that location is where the GOLD key is (by default).r   --- Carl   ------------------------------    Date: 18 Jun 2002 13:08:08 -0600+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) 5 Subject: Re: My conversation with Linus about VMS ...r3 Message-ID: <5Rztw$iMvAQZ@eisner.encompasserve.org>d  ` In article <aennfg$267e$1@info.cs.uofs.edu>, bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes:  < > The attitude/paradigm difference reminds me of the biggest< > difference between my shop (I'm Unix) and the University's> > datacenter (they're VMS).  I will make any need/deisred tool? > (within reason) available.  I see my job as meeting the userse> > requirements.  The datacenter dictates, "This is how it will> > be and the users will learn to live with it."  That is why I> > have said all along that the big difference between Unix and9 > VMS is the mindset behind them from the very beginning.r    G 	Not mindset at all... Not an OS issue at all.  That is the difference i? 	between being "customer" oriented and NOT "customer" oriented.t  > 	Almost all requests that come to me are met.  If they aren't,F 	there are showstopper technical reasons AND/OR features functionality 	already exist elsewhere.   B 	There is system administration and there is... ummmmm... checking( 	for free space and checking for errors.  > 	By the way, having inadvertently ripped the VMS system personG 	up there.... I'll steer clear of tonal shrillness... but wouldn't you  E 	say being inflexible *doesn't* make for good customer relationships?C   				Rob.   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 18 Jun 2002 19:05:54 GMTf* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>5 Subject: Re: My conversation with Linus about VMS ...rC Message-ID: <mwLP8.310400$Oa1.24954142@bin8.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>n  ? "Atlant Schmidt" <atlantnospam@mindspring.com> wrote in message,( news:3D0F2A17.379E4459@mindspring.com... > Carl Perkins wrote:t   ...h  F > > Learning SEARCH is vastly more simple for English speakers - it isH > > an actual word that describes what you want to do. DCL is like that:H > > is it simply a question of finding out which of the various possibleH > > words which you already know that could apply to an operation is theD > > right one. This is considerably easier than learning the variousB > > dialects of the martian language that Unix shells tend to use. >m2 > You understand that this is pretty much a matter0 > of opinion. "Uhh, LOCATE, FIND, SEEK, oh yeah,. > SEARCH!" It's not much improved over "grep".3 > And most computer professionals are well-aware ofi > what grep is and does.  D I'm afraid that in the above you have descended into utter bullshit.  L 1.  Disputing the assertion that it's easier to learn a command that uses an? appropriately-descriptive word in one's native language than ang8 otherwise-meaningless sequence of letters is ridiculous.  K 2.  The only computer professionals who have the slightest clue what 'grep'aI means are those who have been sufficiently exposed to Unix's use of it toEB remember it.  Whether this constitutes 'most' of them is extremely@ questionable, given the percentage who know nothing but Windows.  7 3.  Extend the relevant population to include ancillaryoK (non-computer-professional) users of a system and the percentage who have a J clue what 'grep' is becomes miniscule compared with those who could make a+ reasonable guess at what 'search' might do.o  J I've never seen the slightest indication that people not already inured toI Unix's arcane command syntax find it in any way preferable.  By contrast,tI when DEC introduced DCL the response from users was *extremely* positive:iK even those already accustomed to more arcane commands such as MCR's who had B to relearn and in some cases type more characters accepted it as aL worthwhile improvement, and non-professionals who had to use the system were. downright effusive in their preference for it.  F The fact that some people who have *already* gone through the learningL process may find Unix-style gibberish preferable is hardly an endorsement of@ its general desirability:  if you want to convince anyone of itsE 'superiority', you'll need to produce something in the way of actual,e6 comparative evidence beyond your own personal opinion.   - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 18 Jun 2002 16:01:24 -0400o2 From: Atlant Schmidt <atlantnospam@mindspring.com>5 Subject: Re: My conversation with Linus about VMS ...n. Message-ID: <3D0F9194.1F0215ED@mindspring.com>   Bill Todd wrote:  H > > > Learning SEARCH is vastly more simple for English speakers - it isJ > > > an actual word that describes what you want to do. DCL is like that:J > > > is it simply a question of finding out which of the various possibleJ > > > words which you already know that could apply to an operation is theF > > > right one. This is considerably easier than learning the variousD > > > dialects of the martian language that Unix shells tend to use. > > 4 > > You understand that this is pretty much a matter2 > > of opinion. "Uhh, LOCATE, FIND, SEEK, oh yeah,0 > > SEARCH!" It's not much improved over "grep".5 > > And most computer professionals are well-aware ofI > > what grep is and does. >tF > I'm afraid that in the above you have descended into utter bullshit. >sN > 1.  Disputing the assertion that it's easier to learn a command that uses anA > appropriately-descriptive word in one's native language than anc: > otherwise-meaningless sequence of letters is ridiculous.  4 But you only say that beacuse you *KNOW* that SEARCH< searches for byte strings in files. If you didn't know this,> you might think that SEARCH searches for files in directories.4 You might think that DIRECTORY looks up names in the6 Phone Directory. You might think that LIST lists files in Directories.t  0 You are assuming that everyone has your a priori3 knowledge. Have you ever watch a truly naive persons try to use a CLI?h  5 You have (at least) a priori knowledge of DCL. I havea2 a priori knowledge of CCL (Hey! Somebody mentioned1 RSTS/E!), DCL, and several Unix shells. It is *MYt$ PREFERENCE* to work in a Unix shell.  ) What part of this ("MY PREFERENCE") can'td you understand?   2 Extra-credit assignment: Is there any relationship1 between the form of the discussion here (where aty4 least some people are asserting that the DCL command9 language is superior to all others and therefore you musty9 be a troll, ass, or bullshit artist to use any other) and 4 the fact that a lot of people eventually told DEC to3 piss off? Hint: I now work for a company that threws4 DEC out years ago; arrogance was part of the reason;0 price/performance (compared to Sun) was another.   Atlant     P.S.:   L > I've never seen the slightest indication that people not already inured to= > Unix's arcane command syntax find it in any way preferable.E  0 Well, here's an indication for you. Years ago, I2 deliberately added a slew of stuff to my LOGIN.COM/ and .COM-file suite precisly to allow me to usei/ Unix-style commands. rm, grep, pushdir, popdir,r# cd, pwd, mv, head, tail, and so on.   $ I found that environment preferable.   ------------------------------   Date: 18 Jun 2002 19:57:23 GMT1 From: bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)w5 Subject: Re: My conversation with Linus about VMS ...-, Message-ID: <aeo3b4$2bsu$1@info.cs.uofs.edu>  - In article <slrnagurmu.e21.danco@pebble.org>,M  danco@pebble.org writes:tF |> In article <aennfg$267e$1@info.cs.uofs.edu>, Bill Gunshannon wrote: |> 8? |> > The attitude/paradigm difference reminds me of the biggestu? |> > difference between my shop (I'm Unix) and the University'srA |> > datacenter (they're VMS).  I will make any need/deisred tool B |> > (within reason) available.  I see my job as meeting the usersA |> > requirements.  The datacenter dictates, "This is how it willc2 |> > be and the users will learn to live with it." |> e@ |> That has zilch to do with operating systems and everything toB |> do with their being the "datacenter."  You'll see that attitude? |> in many datacenters, but not all.  It has nothing to do withaB |> which operating systems they use.  It has everything to do with |> the datacenter management.r  : You missed my point.  It has more to do with attitude than; engineering.  The attitude from many here seems to be "this-9 is how it's done and any other way is broken."  That justt= ain't so.  I (and others) have never found Unix to be cryptict: and actually like the mixed case.  Doesn't make either one< wrong, just different.  The problem comes when someone tries; to decide for someone else what methods are best for them. t< Systems should be flexible to some extent and allow the user2 to use the methods that make them most productive.   bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   o   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 18 Jun 2002 20:53:53 GMTe* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>5 Subject: Re: My conversation with Linus about VMS ...pB Message-ID: <A5NP8.312165$Kp.24003835@bin7.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>  ? "Atlant Schmidt" <atlantnospam@mindspring.com> wrote in messagei( news:3D0F9194.1F0215ED@mindspring.com... > Bill Todd wrote: >1J > > > > Learning SEARCH is vastly more simple for English speakers - it isL > > > > an actual word that describes what you want to do. DCL is like that:L > > > > is it simply a question of finding out which of the various possibleL > > > > words which you already know that could apply to an operation is theH > > > > right one. This is considerably easier than learning the variousF > > > > dialects of the martian language that Unix shells tend to use. > > >-6 > > > You understand that this is pretty much a matter4 > > > of opinion. "Uhh, LOCATE, FIND, SEEK, oh yeah,2 > > > SEARCH!" It's not much improved over "grep".7 > > > And most computer professionals are well-aware of- > > > what grep is and does. > >mH > > I'm afraid that in the above you have descended into utter bullshit. > >CH > > 1.  Disputing the assertion that it's easier to learn a command that uses anaC > > appropriately-descriptive word in one's native language than ane< > > otherwise-meaningless sequence of letters is ridiculous. >r6 > But you only say that beacuse you *KNOW* that SEARCH% > searches for byte strings in files.-  L No, I don't.  Because until this conversation arose I *did not* know that (IL haven't used DCL for over 16 years, and if it had a SEARCH command back then I certainly don't remember it).a    If you didn't know this,"@ > you might think that SEARCH searches for files in directories.  G Yes, I might, given my RMS background.  But it would still certainly be8H easier to remember that SEARCH is the DCL command to use for text-stringL searches - or to pick it out of a command list as a likely candidate which I; could then ask for HELP on - than to do the same with grep.G   ...l  2 > You are assuming that everyone has your a priori > knowledge.  / No, I am not:  that is more what you are doing.i  )  Have you ever watch a truly naive person  > try to use a CLI?9  G Yes, I have.  They benefit noticeably from having commands that reflect A their native language, though that is far from the entire battle.u   > 7 > You have (at least) a priori knowledge of DCL. I haveh4 > a priori knowledge of CCL (Hey! Somebody mentioned3 > RSTS/E!), DCL, and several Unix shells. It is *MYU& > PREFERENCE* to work in a Unix shell.  I Fine.  DCL will let you define Unix shell equivalent commands.  That saysdK nothing about what the majority of users will prefer, especially while they L are still in the process of becoming acquainted with a machine and haven't a# clue that it might be customizable.e   >a+ > What part of this ("MY PREFERENCE") can'tf > you understand?d  J The part that makes it relevant to this discussion, which is about general0 approachability rather than one person's biases.   - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 18 Jun 2002 16:06:12 -0500l& From: jlsue <jlsuexxxz@screaminet.com>5 Subject: Re: My conversation with Linus about VMS ...n8 Message-ID: <nm7vgu0cgo9kb3ha9lat949712he68ebs9@4ax.com>  9 On Mon, 17 Jun 2002 15:44:49 GMT, danco@pebble.org wrote:n  E >In article <3D0DD3AE.1B237117@mindspring.com>, Atlant Schmidt wrote:  >l1 >> By the way, I can't recall any more; does thatt, >> abbreviation of "DIRECTORY" to "DIR" work, >> *WITHOUT* the user (or admin, or someone)1 >> taking the active step to define a symbol? CanJ# >> all DCL verbs be so abbreviated?a >e@ >All DCL verbs can be abbreviated to the point where they becomeC >ambiguous, then DCL will complain.  This has always been the case.sA >Under plain DCL the following are unambiguous: DIR, DIRE, DIREC,eA >DIRECT, DIRECTO, DIRECTOR, and DIRECTORY.  However, D and DI arer@ >ambiguous (DIAGNOSE, DIRECTORY, DISABLE, DISCONNECT, DISMOUNT). >/  D Actually, that's true up to 4 characters - i.e., they have to become: unambiguous within 4 characters.  Otherwise it won't work.  G >It's not a good idea to abbreviate commands used in command procedurescB >as what is unambiguous today may be ambiguous tomorrow.  REC usedE >to work for RECALL a few VMS versions back, then it became ambiguous F >and RECA was needed.  At that point I just added REC :== RECALL to my >login.com.  >e  
 Totall agree.T1 Not speaking for anyone, certainly not DEC/Compaqh- (get rid of the xxxz in my address to e-mail)h   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 18 Jun 2002 16:10:18 -0500e& From: jlsue <jlsuexxxz@screaminet.com>5 Subject: Re: My conversation with Linus about VMS ... 8 Message-ID: <a88vgu0j47cpm7h8revqatkon1kmqmj91l@4ax.com>  2 On Tue, 18 Jun 2002 08:39:51 -0400, Atlant Schmidt$ <atlantnospam@mindspring.com> wrote:     > 1 >You understand that this is pretty much a mattere/ >of opinion. "Uhh, LOCATE, FIND, SEEK, oh yeah,d- >SEARCH!" It's not much improved over "grep".x  @ Type HELP and look at the list of commands.  Which list would be= easier to determine the meaning of.  SEARCH - definitely yes.lC GREP - if I saw that in a list, I'd say "Who let Bill the Cat in myp
 computer?"  2 >And most computer professionals are well-aware of >what grep is and does.n  ; And this is not only untrue, but meaningless in the currentm discussion.U  A Now, if you'd say that not all computer professionals speak/writegF English, then you'd have a better argument.  I can see how non-EnglishD speakers would have just as much problem with VMS HELP as they would with man & grep.  1 Not speaking for anyone, certainly not DEC/Compaqv- (get rid of the xxxz in my address to e-mail)    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 18 Jun 2002 16:14:46 -0500 & From: jlsue <jlsuexxxz@screaminet.com>5 Subject: Re: My conversation with Linus about VMS ...a8 Message-ID: <ah8vgugohj17ud29qejhqlesviqpbiadq2@4ax.com>  2 On Tue, 18 Jun 2002 16:01:24 -0400, Atlant Schmidt$ <atlantnospam@mindspring.com> wrote:   >Bill Todd wrote:g >e   >>O >> 1.  Disputing the assertion that it's easier to learn a command that uses an B >> appropriately-descriptive word in one's native language than an; >> otherwise-meaningless sequence of letters is ridiculous.p >s5 >But you only say that beacuse you *KNOW* that SEARCHd= >searches for byte strings in files. If you didn't know this,a? >you might think that SEARCH searches for files in directories.e5 >You might think that DIRECTORY looks up names in theU7 >Phone Directory. You might think that LIST lists filese >in Directories. >e1 >You are assuming that everyone has your a priorih4 >knowledge. Have you ever watch a truly naive person >try to use a CLI?  D Hey!  When I started my professional career in 1985, I had basicallyF no knowledge of DCL or the CLI.  But within days perusing HELP and theD DCL dictionary, I could easily write code in DCL command procedures.  E The Language was not a big hurdle because it was similar to my spokenyF language, and looking at the list of commands I could easily narrow itB down to a short list of 2-3 that I needed to review to determine a! proper match.  THAT is usability.k    1 Not speaking for anyone, certainly not DEC/Compaqw- (get rid of the xxxz in my address to e-mail)    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 18 Jun 2002 16:19:19 -0500 & From: jlsue <jlsuexxxz@screaminet.com>5 Subject: Re: My conversation with Linus about VMS ... 8 Message-ID: <do8vgus2gfcnamlk753qvrbhhgtg3po5ic@4ax.com>  < On 18 Jun 2002 16:34:56 GMT, bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) wrote:   >r; >If you don't like "grep", simple make it "SEARCH". Triviale9 >in Unix.  Under any shell. (Or even without the shell!!)e >t  B But FIRST you have to find out that the 'grep' command is what youB want.  And then you have to figure out it's syntax - which is much8 more powerful, but otoh much more difficult than SEARCH.   >c; >The attitude/paradigm difference reminds me of the biggest ; >difference between my shop (I'm Unix) and the University's = >datacenter (they're VMS).  I will make any need/deisred toolb> >(within reason) available.  I see my job as meeting the users= >requirements.  The datacenter dictates, "This is how it willi= >be and the users will learn to live with it."  That is why I = >have said all along that the big difference between Unix anda> >VMS is the mindset behind them from the very beginning.  Many> >here think that somehow Unix had no engineering behind it.  I< >have always said it did, but the engineers had a different ! >target than the VMS engineers.     @ #1	What your datacenter folks dictate has nothing to do with the 	OS.@ #2	Most all business data centers must place limits on what they? 	can support in order to keep costs low.  This is NOT a Unix vs-? 	VMS vs MVS thing, it's a business driver for how continuity isM# 	maintained (e.g., change control).c  1 Not speaking for anyone, certainly not DEC/Compaqu- (get rid of the xxxz in my address to e-mail)1   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 18 Jun 2002 15:42:02 -0700n5 From: "Kenneth H. Fairfield" <My.Full.Name@intel.com>r5 Subject: Re: My conversation with Linus about VMS ...i) Message-ID: <3D0FB73A.88A828C5@intel.com>    Bill Gunshannon wrote:  / > In article <slrnagurmu.e21.danco@pebble.org>,i >  danco@pebble.org writes:yH > |> In article <aennfg$267e$1@info.cs.uofs.edu>, Bill Gunshannon wrote: > |>A > |> > The attitude/paradigm difference reminds me of the biggestTA > |> > difference between my shop (I'm Unix) and the University'soC > |> > datacenter (they're VMS).  I will make any need/deisred toolsD > |> > (within reason) available.  I see my job as meeting the usersC > |> > requirements.  The datacenter dictates, "This is how it will 4 > |> > be and the users will learn to live with it." > |>B > |> That has zilch to do with operating systems and everything toD > |> do with their being the "datacenter."  You'll see that attitudeA > |> in many datacenters, but not all.  It has nothing to do withnD > |> which operating systems they use.  It has everything to do with > |> the datacenter management.c >u< > You missed my point.  It has more to do with attitude than= > engineering.  The attitude from many here seems to be "thiso; > is how it's done and any other way is broken."  That juste? > ain't so.  I (and others) have never found Unix to be crypticn< > and actually like the mixed case.  Doesn't make either one> > wrong, just different.  The problem comes when someone tries< > to decide for someone else what methods are best for them.> > Systems should be flexible to some extent and allow the user4 > to use the methods that make them most productive.  ?     I agree completely.  At my last employer, one of the thingsnA I did was to make available to our users a good many (I can't sayt> most) of the available VMS freeware tools (Hunter's repository> is a blessing, as well as a good many others :-).  On request,C I ported a few from unix myself.  Although emacs did get the bettert
 of me...  ;-pt  ?     In any case, it really does come down to whether the system < management takes it as their charge to _serve_ the users, or> to keep them out of their hair...I been in several examples of2 both environments, and I know what I prefer to do.  5     -Ken, VMS-bigot-extrodinaire-but-tolerant-of-unix  --6 I don't speak for Intel, Intel doesn't speak for me...  
 Ken Fairfielde! F20 Automation VMS System Supportr kenneth.h.fairfield#intel.comp   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 18 Jun 2002 15:58:47 -070015 From: "Kenneth H. Fairfield" <My.Full.Name@intel.com>t5 Subject: Re: My conversation with Linus about VMS ...t) Message-ID: <3D0FBB27.C3908E7F@intel.com>9   Atlant Schmidt wrote:>   > Bill Todd wrote: > J > > > > Learning SEARCH is vastly more simple for English speakers - it isL > > > > an actual word that describes what you want to do. DCL is like that:L > > > > is it simply a question of finding out which of the various possibleL > > > > words which you already know that could apply to an operation is theH > > > > right one. This is considerably easier than learning the variousF > > > > dialects of the martian language that Unix shells tend to use. > > >a6 > > > You understand that this is pretty much a matter4 > > > of opinion. "Uhh, LOCATE, FIND, SEEK, oh yeah,2 > > > SEARCH!" It's not much improved over "grep".7 > > > And most computer professionals are well-aware ofe > > > what grep is and does. > >oH > > I'm afraid that in the above you have descended into utter bullshit. > >hP > > 1.  Disputing the assertion that it's easier to learn a command that uses anC > > appropriately-descriptive word in one's native language than an < > > otherwise-meaningless sequence of letters is ridiculous. >*6 > But you only say that beacuse you *KNOW* that SEARCH> > searches for byte strings in files. If you didn't know this,@ > you might think that SEARCH searches for files in directories.6 > You might think that DIRECTORY looks up names in the8 > Phone Directory. You might think that LIST lists files > in Directories.  >w2 > You are assuming that everyone has your a priori5 > knowledge. Have you ever watch a truly naive persond > try to use a CLI?    [...]o  9     What one does with a new user on VMS is to teach themv8 the HELP command.  With the HELP command, they can get a9 list of _candidate_ command names and find out more about 9 each one.  It's a little bit of research, yes, but I findi7 it nearly impossible to do something similar under unixy  (yes, I know about appropos...).  6     What one relies on here is NOT a priori knowledge.7 Quite the opposite.  One relies on _recognition_ of thes9 meaning of words in the native language (well, for nativen: english speakers...I have no experience with, for example,: a French DCL).  Recognition is a wonderful thing, and even: if one first guesses that you want to "SEARCH" for a file,< reading the command description quickly lets you know you've8 got to try another "synonym".  And once the new user has9 connected DIRECTORY to "list files", s/he's very unlikelya2 to forget or to try SEARCH for that purpose again.  9     Learning unix commands has none of this flavor.  It'ss: much more of a rote memory thing (probably why I object to6 it :-).  Of course, like touch typing, once you _have_: memorized it(them) through repetition, there's very little8 negative to be said about it.  After 10 years or more of= only _occassional_ use of unix, I know from 'ls', 'cd', 'rm',i= 'stty', 'grep' and even 'df' (although I usually have to looks< at the 'man' page each time I revisit grep... ).  But I find= it extremely hard to come at a new task, knowing the functions@ I want to do, and be able to find the unix command to accomplish that...e       -Ken --6 I don't speak for Intel, Intel doesn't speak for me...  
 Ken Fairfields! F20 Automation VMS System SupportS kenneth.h.fairfield#intel.comd   ------------------------------    Date: 18 Jun 2002 19:45:07 -0700# From: fs63@volcanomail.com (Tim C.)t+ Subject: Re: Need DECNet packet informationn= Message-ID: <399504c6.0206181845.4a5b751d@posting.google.com>c  q "Jesper Naur" <jesper.naur@post.tele.dk> wrote in message news:<3d0f5f23$0$244$edfadb0f@dspool01.news.tele.dk>... 0 > Tim C. <fs63@volcanomail.com> wrote in message9 > news:399504c6.0206180428.550facd8@posting.google.com...s@ > > I am still trying to get to this documentation on DECNet IV. > >  > L > I can mail it to you (sometime tomorrow) - I downloaded it once, at a timeJ > when the link was still alive. Let me know, if the above mail address is > good/bad.' >  >     Best regards >     Jesper Naur   E Jesper, the email address above has size limits.  I sent you an emaile& with a different email address to use.  C Regarding the documentation.....How big is/are the file(s) ?   Whatt format, etc. ?   Thanks for the help, Tim   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2002 01:44:36 GMTo- From: "John E. Malmberg" <wb8tyw@qsl.network>   Subject: Re: Port of SAMBA 2.2.4( Message-ID: <3D0FDE27.10601@qsl.network>   Jean-Franois PIRONNE wrote:s	 > Hi all,. > M > One of my colleague has done a port of the latest release of SAMBA (2.2.4),l > including SWAT.-C > Before officially release his port he is looking for beta-tester.r > Any voluntaries ?t >  > Binaries: 10 MBj > Sources: 14 MB  K It might be useful to post this on the SAMBA-VMS(AT)SAMBA.ORG mailing list.r  G The SAMBA-VMS mailing list is for the discussion of issues relating to e, the porting and running of SAMBA on OpenVMS.   -John  wb8tyw@qsl.network Personal Opinion OnlyA   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 18 Jun 2002 23:26:12 +0200o: From: "Gotfryd Smolik, VMS lists" <gotfryd@stanpol.com.pl>+ Subject: Re: rooted devices and /TRANS=CONCwJ Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0206182222130.18149-100000@irys.stanpol.com.pl>  & On 18 Jun 2002, Alan E. Feldman wrote:  3 >+"David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> [...]v [...Alan/David again...]I >+> > > Hhmmm... F$PARSE() returns a null string - *BUT* that's what it'se= >+> > > SUPPOSED to do! Now that "SY0" means "DJAS01@DKA300:"h    Agree.I   [...] E >+> Because it makes no difference. If you don't correctly format the I >+> translation (read: "equivalence") string, the /TRANSLATION_ATTRIBUTES.H >+> (if any, other than the default) make no fundamental difference. TheH >+> difference you'll see, if any, will be determined by how the subject6 >+> (command) program processes its parameter strings. >+, >+Yes it does. I even posted the difference.    Must (at least partly) agree.C  The differrence not necessary must have the source in the "commandE@ program process[ing]", but may be in the PARSE system operation. [...]iL >+> > > > Then there is the famous DEFINE HOME SYS$LOGIN bug for SET DEFAULT3 >+> > > > which I already discussed in this thread.  >+> > > L >+> > > Note, whoever, that SYS$LOGIN is not only already a logical name, itP >+> > > indicates both a device and a directory path. I believe you'll find that0 >+> > > *THIS* distinction makes the difference. [...] ) >+Yes. And I repeat. Difference for what?t  C  Althout it is risky say "what other person may think" :) will say:a@ the point, that (differrently than most command) SET DEFAULT may4 be suposed to "privately parse" the given parameter.@  *Not* using system parsing is IMO bad practice - excluding someB exception; SET DEF IMO may classify as "proper" exception :) - the? code "may know" that process default directory are saved in twon separate places etc.   [...] I >+> You "meant" "BBB:", but what you told it was "BBB". No matter how youaI >+> slice it, BBB[FELDMAN]myfile.txt is not now, never has been and neverC% >+> will be a valid filespec string.   [...]dD >+So it works, even though BBB[FELDMAN] isn't a valid file-spec. But> >+when you do exactly the same thing with /trans=conc added... [...]hF >+suddenly it fails. So, why is VMS "smart enough" to do it "right" in >+the first case?   @  Alan, alow a person with terrible English (to be precise: me !)2 describe with other words the CONCEALED attribute.  B  Admit it as pointer to *system kernel* function(s) (PARSE and all< binded): "do not allow the user or code seing the real name,B use the logical name instead when you present or return the name".  2 >+No, but DKA100:[FELDMAN] *is* a valid file-spec.  :  Really. But the system function is *allowed* to translate9 the 'stack' of logicals names - *and* 'present' the namese; to the higher code level(s), *but* with CONCEALED attributeM= the system function is still allowed to translate - but *not*r2 allowed to return anything hidden in the logical !<  And - be aware - the file name parsing is done withing RMS,9 *not* system QIO. Then - like any other code - RMS is notI7 allowed to "know" that the CONCEALED logical translatesi
 to anything !n4  Then a non-concealed name "AAA" *can* be translated4 in *second* step to something like "DKA0:", but when: concelaed "BBB" translates to "XXX" - the the presentation. of ":" in deeper translation is *not* allowed.8  Of course - 'concealing' a logicals is not protected :)6 with something like privileges etc., the code even can9 check the name, but - IMO - this is a *GREAT* VMS featureM: (the fact, that the code "know" the LOGICAL, *even if uses names returned from RMS* !).?  The fact, that a "normal" code is not aware whether the "BBB:" C device really is "DKA100:" - is the feature, and little differrenceh7 with translation of logicals with and without CONCEALEDs - is the cost of the feature.M   >+ Now, from the User's Manual:i  8  Even if my opinion may be corrected (by Hoff, supose ;)8 - with regards to Hoff !) or flamed (by someone) - will 8 comment: do not assume User Manual or HELP be something 	 accurate.z [OT]4  The count of simplification is enought big :), when8 you b.ex. read "...requires SYSPRV..." you may be nearly7 sure that in reality 'SYSPRV nearly always allows that't9 - but NOT that SYSPRV is the only or lowest requirements,k5 not only BYPASS - but also GRPPRV or no privilege can4 be the "proper" requirements :)@ [EOT]i  D >+When the system reads a file specification or device name in a DCLH >+command line, it examines the file specification or device name to seeC >+whether the leftmost component is a logical name. If the leftmostnF >+component ends with a colon, space, comma, or a line terminator (forD >+example, Return), the system attempts to translate it as a logicalD >+name. If the leftmost component ends with any other character, the< >+system does not attempt to translate it as a logical name.     Really... Check something like:, $ DIR SYS$NODE"SYSTEM the_proper_password"::  8 ...and light me up, whether the '"' character in English6 is named "colon, space, comma, or a line terminator" !5  My query applies to my disclaimer -:) even if littlea irony is not excluded ! ;) [...]oH >+Logical name translation can be iterative: after the system translatesD >+a logical name, it repeats the translation process for any logical9 >+names it finds contained within the first logical name.i >+H >+Now, BBB is clearly a logical name "contained within the first logical? >+name". So BBB is then translated to DKA100: which in front of05 >+[FELDMAN] forms a perfectly valid file-spec string.i    Really.:  But, when RMS checks the filename *before* starts to OPEN? it - it checks the parsing. But the returned by system functiono, name has invalid syntax - then is rejected !   [...] + >+> The fact that "BBB" is itself a logicale< >+> name makes no fundamental difference, and neither do the >+> /TRANSLATION_ATTRIBUTES. >+2 >+I've already demonstrated that that is not true.  6  As before -:) - must (at least partly) agree. But not with the reason and: [...]EJ >+> > What I don't understand is why VMS is "smart enough" to do the right   ..."smartness" :)t  It is consistent !a  H >+> On the other hand, if you make it a rule to *ALWAYS* properly formatL >+> your translation (read: "equivalence") strings, you'll be a much happier >+> camper in the long run.l >+8 >+I do "properly" format my equivalence strings. Agreed.  )  Include my "agree" also to collection :)w [...]d    Regards - Gotfryd   --  E =====================================================================yF $ ON F$ERROR("LANGUAGE","ENGLISH","IN_MESSAGE").GT.F$ERROR("NORMAL") - 		THEN EXCUSE/OBJECT=ME . $!                        GS@stanpol.zabrze.plE =====================================================================n   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2002 02:26:43 GMT-1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>:+ Subject: Re: rooted devices and /TRANS=CONCe' Message-ID: <3D0FEFBC.3DF012C9@fsi.net>    "Alan E. Feldman" wrote: > b > "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote in message news:<3D0E94E4.28AAA3E5@fsi.net>... > [snip]L > > I was looking for another example to underscore the point, but instead I > > turned up more strangeness:s > > # > > DJAS01::DDACHTERA$ def djd dka0 ' > > DJAS01::DDACHTERA$ dir djd:[000000]g% > > %DIRECT-W-NOFILES, no files founde3 > > DJAS01::DDACHTERA$ say f$parse( "djd:[000000]")  > > DKA0:[000000]DKA0.;u, > > DJAS01::DDACHTERA$ def djd sys$sysdevice? > > %DCL-I-SUPERSEDE, previous value of DJD has been superseded ' > > DJAS01::DDACHTERA$ dir djd:[000000]s > > $ > > Directory SYS$SYSDEVICE:[000000] > >nA > > 000000.DIR;1               1/4        22-MAY-2000 14:48:08.28m > [merciful snip]rA > > VOLSET.SYS;1               0/0        22-MAY-2000 14:48:08.28n > > (RWED,RWED,RE,)n > >i* > > Total of 13 files, 39950/39968 blocks.. > > DJAS01::DDACHTERA$ sh log/fu sys$sysdeviceE > >    "SYS$SYSDEVICE" [exec] = "DJAS01$DKA300:" [concealed,terminal]  > > (LNM$SYSTEM_TABLE)- > > DJAS01::DDACHTERA$ def djd dka0/tran=concs? > > %DCL-I-SUPERSEDE, previous value of DJD has been supersededV' > > DJAS01::DDACHTERA$ dir djd:[000000]e9 > > %DIRECT-E-OPENIN, error opening DJD:[000000] as inputlE > > -RMS-F-DEV, error in device name or inappropriate device type for 
 > > operationoE > > DJAS01::DDACHTERA$ say f$parse( "djd:[000000]",,,, "syntax_only")i > >o > > DJAS01::DDACHTERA$ > >iJ > > Now, don't *THAT* just beat all??!! Even when the logical name equatesH > > to a(n unterminated) device name instead of another logical name, it > > *STILL* doesn't work!, > A > Of course that didn't work. You typed a device name without theeB > trailing colon! It was *you* who pointed this out in one of your > previous posts!B  B So, why should it matter if "DJD" translates to "DKA0" or "BBB" or "WTF"?  A Perhaps you should re-read your own quote from the documentation:l   > Now, from the User's Manual: > D > When the system reads a file specification or device name in a DCLH > command line, it examines the file specification or device name to seeC > whether the leftmost component is a logical name. If the leftmost F > component ends with a colon, space, comma, or a line terminator (forD > example, Return), the system attempts to translate it as a logicalD > name. If the leftmost component ends with any other character, the< > system does not attempt to translate it as a logical name.  $ Let me highlight the key item there:  E "If the leftmost component ends with a colon, space, comma, or a line H terminator (for example, Return), the system attempts to translate it asH a logical name. If the leftmost component ends with any other character,? the system does not attempt to translate it as a logical name."i  D Now applying that iteratively, "BBB" (the translation of your "AAA")F ends with "B", not a colon (":"); likewise, "DKA0" (the translation ofH my "DJD") ends with "0", not a colon. So, this (what you're seeing) *IS* the documented behavior.  H Note that /TRANSLATION_ATTRIBUTES are not mentioned there, either - they/ make no fundamental difference, as illustrated.e  G Beyond that, I'm hard pressed to suggest what might "turn the light on"eC for you. For a definitive "why", drop a line to Brian or some otheryB poster known to subscribe to the source listings CDs and arrange a visit.   -- s David J. Dachtera' dba DJE Systemst http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/)   ------------------------------    Date: 18 Jun 2002 11:48:39 -0700( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski); Subject: Re: SSH v2 (was Re: OpenVMS, Volume Desktop OS...)a= Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0206181048.1df69863@posting.google.com>e  6 bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski) wrote in message > G > TCPware's management interface is VMS like, as a matter of fact, once-I > you understand the com's well enough, you don't even need an interface.nI > If you do, it works just fine, and if you need gui, they have an add-oneI > interface you can purchase, and because it is the only ip stack for vms,I > based on the vms kernel, it runs crisper, and switching your stack fromtH > ucx to tcpware to multinet to tcpware is not that hard ... been there, > done that ...0  C the add-on interface I am talking about above is called "IP works". B It is a suite of directory-centric IP resource management apps and> allows efficient centralized management of IP addresses acrossE an enterprise.  But for basic environments this should not be needed.h   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2002 06:32:27 +0200p2 From: martin@radiogaga.harz.de (Martin Vorlaender); Subject: Re: SSH v2 (was Re: OpenVMS, Volume Desktop OS...)l; Message-ID: <3d10095b.524144494f47414741@radiogaga.harz.de>   ) Bob Ceculski (bob@instantwhip.com) wrote:yE > the add-on interface I am talking about above is called "IP works". D > It is a suite of directory-centric IP resource management apps and@ > allows efficient centralized management of IP addresses acrossG > an enterprise.  But for basic environments this should not be needed.l  F AFAIK, IPworks doesn't exist any more. The product was spun off into aB separate company before the Platinum merger. That firm went out of	 business.g   cu,a   Martin -- sG                            | Martin Vorlaender  |  VMS & WNT programmert4 Microsoft isn't the Borg:  | work: mv@pdv-systeme.deK the Borg have proper       |       http://www.pdv-systeme.de/users/martinv/e; networking.                | home: martin@radiogaga.harz.deC   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 18 Jun 2002 15:22:57 -0400s' From: "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@hp.com>r* Subject: RE: Sun/Slowaris future in doubt!T Message-ID: <BE56C50EA024184DAF48F0B9A47F5CF4026607A0@kaoexc01.americas.cpqcorp.net>   Bill -  ? >>> I wouldn't put too much stock in the current Java craze.<<<a  F Biggest reason I have heard from Customers as to "why Java?" is vendor independence.=20  G Most Customers would love to be much less tied to specific vendors. So,nE while I agree Java still needs to mature somewhat in specific area's,tD the reality is that, assuming the developer sticks to Java stds (not? Microsoft Java stds), you literally can copy a Java applicationnE executable developed on cheap PC box to a large OpenVMS system and its will run.=20  D Develop on cheap stuff - deploy on real stuff .. I suspect what many Customers are looking at today.e  E As far as popularity, almost all major ISV's are looking at migratingoH all or at least significant portions, of their products to Java (Oracle,F PeopleSoft, SAP etc etc ..). Their big driver is that they do not needF OS specific platform versions, so it is a big savings for them as well .   " Check out Oracles new acquisition:9 http://news.com.com/2100-1001-936185.html (June 14, 2002) * "New Oracle tech to put steam behind Java"   Regards,  
 Kerry Main Senior Consultantp Hewlett-Packard Canada! Consulting & Integration Services  Voice: 613-592-4660r Fax   : 613-591-4477 Email: Kerry.Main@hp.com     -----Original Message-----; From: Bill Gunshannon [mailto:bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu]=20' Sent: June 18, 2002 12:16 PM To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Come* Subject: RE: Sun/Slowaris future in doubt!    
 In articleH <BE56C50EA024184DAF48F0B9A47F5CF40266079B@kaoexc01.americas.cpqcorp.net> , *  "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@hp.com> writes: |>H |> However, the growing popularity of vendors adoption of Java means app  E I wouldn't put too much stock in the current Java craze.  Nothing newe? there.  We have had attempts at wide application popularity viatF "virtual" machine before (can anyone say P-System??)  In a business asE fickle as this one, that could change tomorrow if someone comes alongsC with a new language with more glitz (I have visions of the Monorailw
 salesman from  Simpsons!!)3  H |> vendors and Customers can have the best of both worlds ie. rock solid  I |> OS platform from a security and ultra-high availability perspective=20NC |> combined with lots more applications and App developers (many=20lE |> Colleges and Universities are moving to Java as their preferred=20  |> teaching language).  G While at the same time privately discussing all the reasons why this ishB a bad idea.  Like it or not, education is a business and sometimesG decisions are made for marketing reasons rather than technical reasons.iH Java is this years buzzword.  It sells the program to students and, yes,F to parents as well.  I don't much care for Ada, personally, but even IG freely admit it was a better beginners teaching language than Java or CSH or C++.  I've watched us go from Pascal to Ada to Java in one decade.  IH don't necessarily agree with the moves, but I do know why they were done; and what the likely effect of not doing it would have been.o   bill   --=20eC Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three  wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |C Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>  =20s   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 18 Jun 2002 19:37:36 +0000 2 From: John Eisenschmidt <jweisen@eisenschmidt.org>* Subject: Re: Sun/Slowaris future in doubt!4 Message-ID: <20020618193736.B30373@eisenschmidt.org>  
 Well said.  iOne thing I'd like to add, is the issue of OOP. I think that OOP is here to stay for a while (I'm very fond of it personally) and the OOP is C++ is very broken. That is one of the other benifits of Java, that it was designed to be Object Oriented from the ground up. If you understand it, and you can take advantage of it, it's an incredibly power tool to use.    It begs the question of what direction database are moving in. I know a lot of programmers who don't understand relational database design, and while Object Relational Database Design has been slow to catch on, newborn Java programmers seem to have less trouble grasping that than they do RDBMS. The ORDBMS stuff in Oracle is getting pretty nice, and Object Store has been around for quite some time. Just have to role with the punches I guess.  F Unless the Voices are Mistaken, Main, Kerry (Kerry.Main@hp.com) Wrote: > Bill - > A > >>> I wouldn't put too much stock in the current Java craze.<<<e > H > Biggest reason I have heard from Customers as to "why Java?" is vendor > independence.  > I > Most Customers would love to be much less tied to specific vendors. So, G > while I agree Java still needs to mature somewhat in specific area's, F > the reality is that, assuming the developer sticks to Java stds (notA > Microsoft Java stds), you literally can copy a Java application.G > executable developed on cheap PC box to a large OpenVMS system and ity > will run.  > F > Develop on cheap stuff - deploy on real stuff .. I suspect what many! > Customers are looking at today.  > G > As far as popularity, almost all major ISV's are looking at migratingdJ > all or at least significant portions, of their products to Java (Oracle,H > PeopleSoft, SAP etc etc ..). Their big driver is that they do not needH > OS specific platform versions, so it is a big savings for them as well > .u > $ > Check out Oracles new acquisition:; > http://news.com.com/2100-1001-936185.html (June 14, 2002) , > "New Oracle tech to put steam behind Java" > 
 > Regards, >  > Kerry Main > Senior Consultants > Hewlett-Packard Canada# > Consulting & Integration Servicesg > Voice: 613-592-4660. > Fax   : 613-591-4477 > Email: Kerry.Main@hp.com >  >  > -----Original Message-----; > From: Bill Gunshannon [mailto:bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu] o > Sent: June 18, 2002 12:16 PM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comt, > Subject: RE: Sun/Slowaris future in doubt! >  >  > In articleJ > <BE56C50EA024184DAF48F0B9A47F5CF40266079B@kaoexc01.americas.cpqcorp.net> > , , >  "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@hp.com> writes: > |>J > |> However, the growing popularity of vendors adoption of Java means app > G > I wouldn't put too much stock in the current Java craze.  Nothing new A > there.  We have had attempts at wide application popularity viatH > "virtual" machine before (can anyone say P-System??)  In a business asG > fickle as this one, that could change tomorrow if someone comes alongbE > with a new language with more glitz (I have visions of the Monorail  > salesman fromt
 > Simpsons!!)i > J > |> vendors and Customers can have the best of both worlds ie. rock solid > I > |> OS platform from a security and ultra-high availability perspective eC > |> combined with lots more applications and App developers (many hE > |> Colleges and Universities are moving to Java as their preferred   > |> teaching language). > I > While at the same time privately discussing all the reasons why this iscD > a bad idea.  Like it or not, education is a business and sometimesI > decisions are made for marketing reasons rather than technical reasons.MJ > Java is this years buzzword.  It sells the program to students and, yes,H > to parents as well.  I don't much care for Ada, personally, but even II > freely admit it was a better beginners teaching language than Java or CaJ > or C++.  I've watched us go from Pascal to Ada to Java in one decade.  IJ > don't necessarily agree with the moves, but I do know why they were done= > and what the likely effect of not doing it would have been.n >  > bill >  > -- TE > Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Threer > wolvesF > bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. > University of Scranton   |C > Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   o   --  / John W. Eisenschmidt <jweisen@eisenschmidt.org>s6  Homepage URL    | http://www.eisenschmidt.org/jweisenM  PGP Public Key  | http://www.eisenschmidt.org/jweisen/misc/jeisenschmidt.ascnD  PGP Fingerprint | 5F9B F916 5AD1 3295 CF99 BC1E 1F97 E6A3 37E3 BEF2  O FOO MANE PADME HUM: "Our first obligation is to keep the FOO counters turning."i   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 18 Jun 2002 20:15:09 GMTl1 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com> * Subject: Re: Sun/Slowaris future in doubt!= Message-ID: <hxMP8.89777$6m5.75361@rwcrnsc51.ops.asp.att.net>s  I Wasn't it DATAMATION that declared the death of the mainframe back in them early-mid 1990s?   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 18 Jun 2002 20:19:54 GMTa# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>a* Subject: Re: Sun/Slowaris future in doubt!H Message-ID: <KBMP8.64759$831.40434@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>  " Java - write once, crash anywhere.    > "Bill Gunshannon" <bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu> wrote in message& news:aenmbc$25mg$1@info.cs.uofs.edu... > In articleI <BE56C50EA024184DAF48F0B9A47F5CF40266079B@kaoexc01.americas.cpqcorp.net>,S, >  "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@hp.com> writes: > |>J > |> However, the growing popularity of vendors adoption of Java means app >hG > I wouldn't put too much stock in the current Java craze.  Nothing newrK > there.  We have had attempts at wide application popularity via "virtual" H > machine before (can anyone say P-System??)  In a business as fickle asH > this one, that could change tomorrow if someone comes along with a newH > language with more glitz (I have visions of the Monorail salesman from
 > Simpsons!!)s >aJ > |> vendors and Customers can have the best of both worlds ie. rock solid OSE > |> platform from a security and ultra-high availability perspectivesK > |> combined with lots more applications and App developers (many CollegestD > |> and Universities are moving to Java as their preferred teaching > |> language).b > A > While at the same time privately discussing all the reasons whyoB > this is a bad idea.  Like it or not, education is a business and@ > sometimes decisions are made for marketing reasons rather than? > technical reasons. Java is this years buzzword.  It sells theFF > program to students and, yes, to parents as well.  I don't much care> > for Ada, personally, but even I freely admit it was a betterB > beginners teaching language than Java or C or C++.  I've watchedF > us go from Pascal to Ada to Java in one decade.  I don't necessarilyE > agree with the moves, but I do know why they were done and what theR0 > likely effect of not doing it would have been. >E > bill >9 > --L > Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesF > bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. > University of Scranton   |@ > Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 18 Jun 2002 20:26:27 GMTC# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>-* Subject: Re: Sun/Slowaris future in doubt!H Message-ID: <THMP8.64805$831.55493@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>  < Sorry, forgot the  ;-)  ...before everyone jumps on my back.  F Java's ok if you like coding in yet another 3GL. I'd guess the biggestI features that make it popular are portability, and the range of 3rd-party L code that's available to save developer time. That said, there's still a lot: of crap Java code written by people who just don't get OO.  J Mind you, the industry as a whole has come a long way in the past 10 yearsG in providing developer workbenches and such to make the process easier.D      . "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> wrote in messageB news:KBMP8.64759$831.40434@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com...$ > Java - write once, crash anywhere. >s >r@ > "Bill Gunshannon" <bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu> wrote in message( > news:aenmbc$25mg$1@info.cs.uofs.edu... > > In articleK > <BE56C50EA024184DAF48F0B9A47F5CF40266079B@kaoexc01.americas.cpqcorp.net>, . > >  "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@hp.com> writes: > > |>L > > |> However, the growing popularity of vendors adoption of Java means app > >?I > > I wouldn't put too much stock in the current Java craze.  Nothing neweC > > there.  We have had attempts at wide application popularity via 	 "virtual" J > > machine before (can anyone say P-System??)  In a business as fickle asJ > > this one, that could change tomorrow if someone comes along with a newJ > > language with more glitz (I have visions of the Monorail salesman from > > Simpsons!!)- > >yL > > |> vendors and Customers can have the best of both worlds ie. rock solid > OSG > > |> platform from a security and ultra-high availability perspective D > > |> combined with lots more applications and App developers (many CollegesF > > |> and Universities are moving to Java as their preferred teaching > > |> language).  > >,C > > While at the same time privately discussing all the reasons whyoD > > this is a bad idea.  Like it or not, education is a business andB > > sometimes decisions are made for marketing reasons rather thanA > > technical reasons. Java is this years buzzword.  It sells the H > > program to students and, yes, to parents as well.  I don't much care@ > > for Ada, personally, but even I freely admit it was a betterD > > beginners teaching language than Java or C or C++.  I've watchedH > > us go from Pascal to Ada to Java in one decade.  I don't necessarilyG > > agree with the moves, but I do know why they were done and what thes2 > > likely effect of not doing it would have been. > >l > > bill > >J > > --G > > Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Threed wolvesH > > bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. > > University of Scranton   |B > > Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h> >  >h   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 18 Jun 2002 17:45:12 -0400a* From: "rob kas" <rob@paychoice.nospam.com>* Subject: Re: Sun/Slowaris future in doubt!3 Message-ID: <3d0fa9e6$0$1429$8e9e3842@news.atx.net>t  
  Greetings  7   Has anyone developed a DataBase Intensive Java APP onw   VMS?  ,                                       Thanks*                                        Rob  H > Java's ok if you like coding in yet another 3GL. I'd guess the biggestK > features that make it popular are portability, and the range of 3rd-partygJ > code that's available to save developer time. That said, there's still a lota< > of crap Java code written by people who just don't get OO. > L > Mind you, the industry as a whole has come a long way in the past 10 yearsI > in providing developer workbenches and such to make the process easier.f >  >  > 0 > "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> wrote in messageD > news:KBMP8.64759$831.40434@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com...& > > Java - write once, crash anywhere. > >c > > B > > "Bill Gunshannon" <bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu> wrote in message* > > news:aenmbc$25mg$1@info.cs.uofs.edu... > > > In article > >tI <BE56C50EA024184DAF48F0B9A47F5CF40266079B@kaoexc01.americas.cpqcorp.net>,n0 > > >  "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@hp.com> writes: > > > |>J > > > |> However, the growing popularity of vendors adoption of Java means app- > > > K > > > I wouldn't put too much stock in the current Java craze.  Nothing newtE > > > there.  We have had attempts at wide application popularity via. > "virtual"-L > > > machine before (can anyone say P-System??)  In a business as fickle asL > > > this one, that could change tomorrow if someone comes along with a newL > > > language with more glitz (I have visions of the Monorail salesman from > > > Simpsons!!)f > > >cH > > > |> vendors and Customers can have the best of both worlds ie. rock solidi > > OSI > > > |> platform from a security and ultra-high availability perspectivepF > > > |> combined with lots more applications and App developers (many
 > CollegesH > > > |> and Universities are moving to Java as their preferred teaching > > > |> language).  > > >&E > > > While at the same time privately discussing all the reasons why F > > > this is a bad idea.  Like it or not, education is a business andD > > > sometimes decisions are made for marketing reasons rather thanC > > > technical reasons. Java is this years buzzword.  It sells the0J > > > program to students and, yes, to parents as well.  I don't much careB > > > for Ada, personally, but even I freely admit it was a betterF > > > beginners teaching language than Java or C or C++.  I've watchedJ > > > us go from Pascal to Ada to Java in one decade.  I don't necessarilyI > > > agree with the moves, but I do know why they were done and what thed4 > > > likely effect of not doing it would have been. > > > 
 > > > bill > > >e > > > --I > > > Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Threee > wolvesJ > > > bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner.  > > > University of Scranton   |D > > > Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h> > >e > >u >- >p   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2002 18:02:06 -0400 ( From: David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>* Subject: Re: Sun/Slowaris future in doubt!, Message-ID: <3D0E5C5E.6060309@tsoft-inc.com>  + I don't know why I try, but, one more time.e   Bob Ceculski wrote:h  ? > Since everyone here is so quick to speculate that Itanium/VMSg    Q Don't invent what doesn't exist.  Itanium is a CPU.  VMS is an operating system. 1*   Each are separate and distinct entities.  O I for one feel that the VMS port to the IA-64 architecture will be successful. l At least as far as working.g  J I also feel that Itanium will crater.  As Paul has in his sig, "EPIC, the O architecture of the future, always has been, always will be", this is one idea iN which has far outlived it's lifespan.  It can be included with other failures K such as VAX 9000 and other experiments that didn't meet their expectations.A  5 > will fail, why are saying that Sun/Hammer will not?.@ > Makes no sense, esp. when pitting Alpha/VMS engineers againset > Sun/AMD engineers,    Q It's been rumored that there are plenty of ex-Alpha people at AMD.  They've been eQ working on the Hammer concept for quire a while.  The Alpha people transfered to lN Intel have not had much to do with IA-64, except to redicule it in past white L papers.  Now you expect them to turn the piece of shit into a rasty pudding?  &  I would expect Itanium VMS chances of4 > survival to be a heck of alot better than Sun/AMD!' > We all know that Sparky chip is dead      Q I don't think that you can assume that.  It depends upon the resolve of Sun, and iO what they decide to do.  Hammer or IA-64 makes more sense for Sun than it ever eL did for Compaq.  They might be pursuaded by similar arguments.  They may be  valid for Sun.   ... unless they can ; > keep adding on more chips ... 512, 1024, 2048, to get thes? > thing to look like it can run fast ... so Alpha is dead aftermD > EV7, and sparc is dead now ... EV7 will outperform sparc by years,> > the question is, why buy Sun/Slowaris?  Hammer One right now > looks like Itanic one ...n    P I don't think so.  While numbers aren't real available for Hammer at this time, O it isn't hampered by the EPIC ideas, which will kill IA-64.  Also, Hammer runs rO 32 bit apps and is a valid replacement for IA-32.  Best of both worlds.  IA-32 sP and 64 bit apps.  Hammer is a jack of all trades, and will fit in enough places $ that Intel could be in real trouble.    < > Well computer geniuses, rational competent answers please! >   A Definitely not your 'computer genius', but I can see the pattern.e   Dave   ------------------------------    Date: 18 Jun 2002 13:03:34 -0600- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)- Subject: RE: unix historyu3 Message-ID: <FkUZhfc3od4I@eisner.encompasserve.org>s  _ In article <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIOEFGFDAA.tom@kednos.com>, "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> writes:3 >>A >>Of course, for the PDP-11 most people recommend BSD 2.11 but mysE >>preference is for Ultrix-11, although that's not really a BSD.  :-)  > E > Are you sure about that? I always thought that it was derived from eD > BSD4.1, to which I had the sources.  It certainly behaved like it. >     H    Considering Ultrix-32 was BSD 4.2 with some pieces of 4.3, I'd really)    be suprized if Ultrix-11 was System V.u   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 18 Jun 2002 11:22:52 -0700s# From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com>b Subject: RE: unix historyt9 Message-ID: <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIAEFNFDAA.tom@kednos.com>o  ; We're in agreement, I guess I misunderstood what you wrote.n   >-----Original Message-----f5 >From: Bob Koehler [mailto:koehler@encompasserve.org] & >Sent: Tuesday, June 18, 2002 12:04 PM >To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com >Subject: RE: unix history >r >i@ >In article <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIOEFGFDAA.tom@kednos.com>, "Tom ! >Linden" <tom@kednos.com> writes:t >>>rB >>>Of course, for the PDP-11 most people recommend BSD 2.11 but myF >>>preference is for Ultrix-11, although that's not really a BSD.  :-) >> lF >> Are you sure about that? I always thought that it was derived from E >> BSD4.1, to which I had the sources.  It certainly behaved like it.t >>   s >nI >   Considering Ultrix-32 was BSD 4.2 with some pieces of 4.3, I'd reallya* >   be suprized if Ultrix-11 was System V. >d >---' >Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.t; >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).o@ >Version: 6.0.370 / Virus Database: 205 - Release Date: 6/5/2002 >d --- & Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.: Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).? Version: 6.0.370 / Virus Database: 205 - Release Date: 6/5/2002t   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 18 Jun 2002 11:12:24 -0700 ' From: JMK <jeffrey.m.klopotic@lmco.com> ' Subject: Re: VMS advertising suggestionr( Message-ID: <3D0F7808.B1DA7EE2@lmco.com>   I like 0  C "Steamship side of beef on the bone - a man-sized serving fit for aJ king".     makes me hungry.   JMKn   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 18 Jun 2002 22:17:10 GMTi9 From: rickm123@oregon456.uoregon789.edu (Rick Millhollin)7 Subject: VMS V7.3-1 Info0 Message-ID: <3d0f99f4.76493571@news.uoregon.edu>  B Does anyone know of any VMS V7.3-1 new features/release notes infoB available online?  I'm trying to decide whether to upgrade to V7.3D soon, or wait for V7.3-1 and it's first round of patches.  Thanks...  1 Rick Millhollin, Director of Computing Facilities @ University of Oregon Computing Center, Eugene, Oregon 97403-12120 Phone: (541)346-1730  FAX: (541)346-6438 or 4397C E-mail: rickm123@oregon456.uoregon789.edu (remove anti-spam digits)v   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 18 Jun 2002 19:16:52 +0000p2 From: John Eisenschmidt <jweisen@eisenschmidt.org>' Subject: [OT] Why Software is So Bad...i4 Message-ID: <20020618191652.A30373@eisenschmidt.org>   Has everyone seen the article on MSNBC today about software engineering and how the quality of code is getting worse? I'm surprised to see MSNBC publish something so anti-Microsoft that isn't related to an actual event like the trial.  & http://msnbc.com/news/768401.asp?cp1=1   "Software, alas, seems different. One would expect a 45-million-line program like Windows XP, Microsoft's newest operating system, to have a few bugs. And software engineering is a newer discipline than mechanical or electrical engineering; the first real programs were created only 50 years ago. But what's surprising , astonishing, in fact, is that many software engineers believe that software quality is not improving. If anything, they say, it's getting worse. It's as if the cars Detroit produced in 2002 w, ere less reliable than those built in 1982."   --  / John W. Eisenschmidt <jweisen@eisenschmidt.org>a6  Homepage URL    | http://www.eisenschmidt.org/jweisenM  PGP Public Key  | http://www.eisenschmidt.org/jweisen/misc/jeisenschmidt.aschD  PGP Fingerprint | 5F9B F916 5AD1 3295 CF99 BC1E 1F97 E6A3 37E3 BEF2  O FOO MANE PADME HUM: "Our first obligation is to keep the FOO counters turning."m   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 18 Jun 2002 12:22:26 -0700 # From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com>r+ Subject: RE: [OT] Why Software is So Bad...a9 Message-ID: <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIEEFPFDAA.tom@kednos.com>W  = The escape from K&R of C and its subsequent popularity didn'tt help.  i   >-----Original Message-----b: >From: John Eisenschmidt [mailto:jweisen@eisenschmidt.org]& >Sent: Tuesday, June 18, 2002 12:17 PM >To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com( >Subject: [OT] Why Software is So Bad... >t >l= >Has everyone seen the article on MSNBC today about software -? >engineering and how the quality of code is getting worse? I'm TA >surprised to see MSNBC publish something so anti-Microsoft that i1 >isn't related to an actual event like the trial.3 >r' >http://msnbc.com/news/768401.asp?cp1=1A >A6 >"Software, alas, seems different. One would expect a = >45-million-line program like Windows XP, Microsoft's newest  C >operating system, to have a few bugs. And software engineering is  C >a newer discipline than mechanical or electrical engineering; the 8 >first real0C > programs were created only 50 years ago. But what's surprising , .D >astonishing, in fact, is that many software engineers believe that @ >software quality is not improving. If anything, they say, it's < >getting worse. It's as if the cars Detroit produced in 2002 > w"- >ere less reliable than those built in 1982."  >> >-- 0 >John W. Eisenschmidt <jweisen@eisenschmidt.org>7 > Homepage URL    | http://www.eisenschmidt.org/jweisene > PGP Public Key  | ; >http://www.eisenschmidt.org/jweisen/misc/jeisenschmidt.asciE > PGP Fingerprint | 5F9B F916 5AD1 3295 CF99 BC1E 1F97 E6A3 37E3 BEF2? > > >FOO MANE PADME HUM: "Our first obligation is to keep the FOO  >counters turning."l >  >---' >Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.v; >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).>@ >Version: 6.0.370 / Virus Database: 205 - Release Date: 6/5/2002 >d --- & Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.: Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).? Version: 6.0.370 / Virus Database: 205 - Release Date: 6/5/2002s   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 18 Jun 2002 19:38:46 +0000 2 From: John Eisenschmidt <jweisen@eisenschmidt.org>+ Subject: Re: [OT] Why Software is So Bad...t4 Message-ID: <20020618193846.C30373@eisenschmidt.org>  < Cutler's defection to Microsoft couldn't have helped either.  B Unless the Voices are Mistaken, Tom Linden (tom@kednos.com) Wrote:? > The escape from K&R of C and its subsequent popularity didn'tp	 > help.  b >  > >-----Original Message-----t< > >From: John Eisenschmidt [mailto:jweisen@eisenschmidt.org]( > >Sent: Tuesday, June 18, 2002 12:17 PM > >To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com* > >Subject: [OT] Why Software is So Bad... > >h > >y? > >Has everyone seen the article on MSNBC today about software aA > >engineering and how the quality of code is getting worse? I'm cC > >surprised to see MSNBC publish something so anti-Microsoft that |3 > >isn't related to an actual event like the trial.i > > ) > >http://msnbc.com/news/768401.asp?cp1=1  > > 8 > >"Software, alas, seems different. One would expect a ? > >45-million-line program like Windows XP, Microsoft's newest <E > >operating system, to have a few bugs. And software engineering is DE > >a newer discipline than mechanical or electrical engineering; the ,
 > >first real)E > > programs were created only 50 years ago. But what's surprising , iF > >astonishing, in fact, is that many software engineers believe that B > >software quality is not improving. If anything, they say, it's > > >getting worse. It's as if the cars Detroit produced in 2002 > > wd/ > >ere less reliable than those built in 1982."d > >  > >-- 2 > >John W. Eisenschmidt <jweisen@eisenschmidt.org>9 > > Homepage URL    | http://www.eisenschmidt.org/jweisenh > > PGP Public Key  | = > >http://www.eisenschmidt.org/jweisen/misc/jeisenschmidt.asc7G > > PGP Fingerprint | 5F9B F916 5AD1 3295 CF99 BC1E 1F97 E6A3 37E3 BEF2, > >h@ > >FOO MANE PADME HUM: "Our first obligation is to keep the FOO  > >counters turning."e > >n > >---) > >Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.B= > >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).rB > >Version: 6.0.370 / Virus Database: 205 - Release Date: 6/5/2002 > >H > --- ( > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.< > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).A > Version: 6.0.370 / Virus Database: 205 - Release Date: 6/5/2002e   --  / John W. Eisenschmidt <jweisen@eisenschmidt.org> 6  Homepage URL    | http://www.eisenschmidt.org/jweisenM  PGP Public Key  | http://www.eisenschmidt.org/jweisen/misc/jeisenschmidt.asc D  PGP Fingerprint | 5F9B F916 5AD1 3295 CF99 BC1E 1F97 E6A3 37E3 BEF2  O FOO MANE PADME HUM: "Our first obligation is to keep the FOO counters turning."    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 18 Jun 2002 20:13:16 GMT 1 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com>m+ Subject: Re: [OT] Why Software is So Bad...e= Message-ID: <wvMP8.71617$R61.20372@rwcrnsc52.ops.asp.att.net>a  ? "John Eisenschmidt" <jweisen@eisenschmidt.org> wrote in message . news:20020618191652.A30373@eisenschmidt.org...I > Has everyone seen the article on MSNBC today about software engineeringsH and how the quality of code is getting worse? I'm surprised to see MSNBCI publish something so anti-Microsoft that isn't related to an actual eventg like the trial.n >y( > http://msnbc.com/news/768401.asp?cp1=1 > F > "Software, alas, seems different. One would expect a 45-million-lineK program like Windows XP, Microsoft's newest operating system, to have a fewPG bugs. And software engineering is a newer discipline than mechanical ortJ electrical engineering; the first real programs were created only 50 yearsH ago. But what's surprising , astonishing, in fact, is that many softwareK engineers believe that software quality is not improving. If anything, theyiG say, it's getting worse. It's as if the cars Detroit produced in 2002 wn. > ere less reliable than those built in 1982."  F Software is bad because people will pay for the squatulent, bug-riddenC dreck. Ever read "The Software Conspiracy?" A few elements of truths contained therein.   ------------------------------    Date: 18 Jun 2002 15:28:45 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)n+ Subject: Re: [OT] Why Software is So Bad...s3 Message-ID: <eEllfgQse1cW@eisner.encompasserve.org>   i In article <20020618191652.A30373@eisenschmidt.org>, John Eisenschmidt <jweisen@eisenschmidt.org> writes:e > Has everyone seen the article on MSNBC today about software engineering and how the quality of code is getting worse? I'm surprised to see MSNBC publish something so anti-Microsoft that isn't related to an actual event like the trial.  D As it happens, I was walking by the MIT Press bookstore in CambridgeD this morning and saw the magazine cover in the window.  That articleB (from which the web page was drawn) was featured on the cover so I stopped in and bought a copy.K   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 18 Jun 2002 20:18:03 GMTw# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> + Subject: Re: [OT] Why Software is So Bad...sJ Message-ID: <%zMP8.384807$t8_.154124@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>  F http://itmanagement.earthweb.com/secu/article/0,,11953_1366421,00.html  5 Microsoft's Move To Mothball Old Code Raises Concerns>   By Sharon Gaudin    I Following Microsoft Corp.'s announcement this week that it will move more-E quickly to retire old code in its Windows operating systems, industry.B analysts have been left wondering how it will affect users' legacy" applications, as well as security.  C Steve Lipner, director of security assurance for Microsoft, said in E published reports that Microsoft will ax old Windows code if it posesi security problems.  C Lipner was not available for an interview but a Microsoft spokesman G confirmed the statement and added that they will "look to retire legacyoJ code" as part of the software giant's four-month-old Trustworthy Computing initiative.a  A With no word on when the code fixes will come or how they will benK distributed to users, industry watchers are left wondering what Microsoft'st latest move will mean.  K "It's hard to tell what will happen," says Dan Kusnetzky, vice president ofyK system software research at IDC, an analyst firm based in Framingham, Mass.eE "But it's clear that older versions of Windows didn't make security aeI priority. It was there but it was not a priority. The code was written too make it work."  K Each new version of Windows has been part of an evolutionary process -- the K newer version growing out of the code base from the last version. There areiJ an estimated 8 million to 10 million lines of code in Windows 2000. That'sF compared to about 4 million to 5 million in Windows 95. That means theK latest versions are not only bulkier than their predecessors but they carryyH around a lot of the code that was written four, five or even eight years ago.  L Added to the equation is the fact that earlier this year, Microsoft ChairmanD Bill Gates kicked off his Trustworthy Computing agenda, prioritizingH improved security above new features. The announcement, however has beenE followed by a myriad of vulnerability announcements and the resulting-; criticisms that the company isn't doing enough fast enough.0  L Then about a week ago, Microsoft warned users of a security vulnerability inL Internet Explorer that was based in old code for a protocol now rarely used.& Lipner's announcement came soon after.  I "Why did it take them this long to strengthen the operating system?" asks I Kusnetzky. "It's one of the steps that has to be undertaken. Every aspectg( has to be examined for vulnerabilities."  L Peter Kastner, chief research officer for Boston-based Aberdeen Group, Inc.,6 says this is a step that Microsoft simply has to take.  F "I think it's the only answer they could give and still be true to theG mantra of, 'If we find security-prone problems in our code, we will fixaJ it,'" says Kastner. "Code, which otherwise would be considered working, isI now being ripped out because it may have fundamental security flaws whicht6 cannot be patched. The security flaw was designed in."  K The old code, however, is often present in new releases because it supports L old applications. If the old code is removed, how will that affect companies4 still running business critical legacy applications?  I Laura DiDio, a senior analyst at Boston-based Yankee Group, says it coulddK all be confusing to IT managers who may be dealing with reduced budgets andu fewer workers on staff.p  L "What happens to functionality?" says DiDio. "You put on a service pack or aK security patch and sometimes the install creates problems that didn't exist H before. IT has enough to worry about...I have doubts about the results."  I And this could affect millions of U.S. businesses since analysts say moremH companies are running older versions of Windows than the latest release.G Tens of millions are still using Windows 9x, including millions who areaK still on Windows 95, according to Kastner, who adds that Microsoft will saylG they've been advising enterprise customers for years to move to Windows ! NT -- based on newer 32-bit code.a  L But despite the headaches it may pose, IDC's Kusnetzky says retiring the old code still makes sense.n  J "What will have trouble and what wont depends on what Microsoft finds andI what replaces the legacy code," says Kusnetzky. "If the new code operates,G the same way, old applications may still work. It's hard to say at thisf point."l  G But he also points out that IT administrators would be smart to protectt themselves ahead of time.t  J "I certainly would have an inventory of old applications," Kusnetzky adds,J "and be prepared with alternatives*** in case those applications no longer
 function."    J ** Too bad there aren't enough 3rd-party OpenVMS applications available toK fulfill each requirement. But then again, that would go against HP's desire ' to keep OpenVMS in a 'no growth' state.s          < "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com> wrote in message7 news:wvMP8.71617$R61.20372@rwcrnsc52.ops.asp.att.net...f >tA > "John Eisenschmidt" <jweisen@eisenschmidt.org> wrote in messageo0 > news:20020618191652.A30373@eisenschmidt.org...K > > Has everyone seen the article on MSNBC today about software engineeringeJ > and how the quality of code is getting worse? I'm surprised to see MSNBCK > publish something so anti-Microsoft that isn't related to an actual event  > like the trial.l > >1* > > http://msnbc.com/news/768401.asp?cp1=1 > >-H > > "Software, alas, seems different. One would expect a 45-million-lineI > program like Windows XP, Microsoft's newest operating system, to have aA few@I > bugs. And software engineering is a newer discipline than mechanical ornL > electrical engineering; the first real programs were created only 50 yearsJ > ago. But what's surprising , astonishing, in fact, is that many softwareH > engineers believe that software quality is not improving. If anything, theyI > say, it's getting worse. It's as if the cars Detroit produced in 2002 wo0 > > ere less reliable than those built in 1982." >uH > Software is bad because people will pay for the squatulent, bug-riddenE > dreck. Ever read "The Software Conspiracy?" A few elements of truthv > contained therein. >h >    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 18 Jun 2002 22:59:02 GMTd* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>+ Subject: Re: [OT] Why Software is So Bad...iB Message-ID: <WWOP8.301582$Gs.23922604@bin5.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>  < "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com> wrote in message7 news:wvMP8.71617$R61.20372@rwcrnsc52.ops.asp.att.net...    ...2  H > Software is bad because people will pay for the squatulent, bug-ridden > dreck.  K And in particular because people won't pay *more*, and wait a few months to:K a year longer, for a more reliable product.  They get exactly what they pay2> for which is, after all, the ideal of a market-driven economy.  G For some reason this reminds me of the recent mention of the absence of = ethics in business, perhaps because they're two symptoms of av# possibly-common underlying problem.h   - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 18 Jun 2002 17:08:27 -0500M& From: jlsue <jlsuexxxz@screaminet.com>: Subject: Re: [Q]  VMS incremental backups vs. other brands8 Message-ID: <8lbvguks7dkuir1ie92qcv8t4gtd6n7qjn@4ax.com>  A It is my experience that these other tools backup changed *files* 7 since the last backup, but not changed directory files.r  D This is important as it allows the restore operation to delete filesD that should no longer exist.... and could keep you disk from filling up.C   For example:  ; 18 GB disk drive of which 15GB is used (leaving 3 GB free).3   DIR1 has 5GB of data files.u   Perform full backup.  - Rename DIR1 to DIR2 (e.g., via 'mv' on Unix).-  4 Perform incremental backup (since last full backup).   Now destroy disk.e   Restore full backup.  & Restore incremental backup..... uh oh.    7 On Mon, 17 Jun 2002 19:24:42 -0400, "David Pikcilingis"e <piks@speakeasy.net> wrote:d   >Hello,f >rK >Boston Business Computing produces Vbackup, an emulation of OpenVMS BACKUPs3 >for UNIX systems that will do incremental backups.' >e? >From the Vbackup manual (www.bosbc.com/documents/vbackup.pdf):/ >Incremental Backups >wG >An incremental backup is an archive of files that have been created orkL >changed since the most recent full or incremental backup. Such archives areL >typically created by adding the -y (tar-style) or /SINCE (VMS-style) optionM >to the Vbackup invocation used for creating full backups. The option's valueiG >should be the time at which the most recent full or incremental backupo >began.a >yL >For example, if the most recent backup of the /home directory tree began atL >11:48pm on March 8, 1999, then the following command creates an incrementalH >backup of the files under /home that have been created or changed sinceH >then: tar-style: vbackup -cf /dev/nrmt0 -s9mar.inc -y'8-MAR-1999 23:48'> >/home VMS-style: vbackup '/SINCE="8-MAR-1999 23:48" [home...]  >"/dev/nrmt0":9mar.inc/SAVE_SET' >6K >For more information see www.bosbc.com/vbackup.html or request informationc >from sales@bosbc.com- >-	 >Regards,- >- >David Pikcilingis >Boston Business Computing >  >m >T >L< >"Alan E. Feldman" <SPAMSINK2001@YAHOO.COM> wrote in message8 >news:343f30ae.0205151510.3b2b5739@posting.google.com...	 >> Hello,  >>C >> With VMS, incremental restore operations restore the disk to theiB >> condition it was in as of the time of the last incremental saveG >> operation. Files that were deleted or modified between the last fullfD >> backup and the last incremental backup remain deleted or modified >> after restoration.a >>I >> Does any other brand of Backup do this? I think with PKZIP and WindowseG >> Backup programs the incremental restore step simply tries to restoretD >> all files that were saved, possibly warning you about overwritingH >> files with the same name on the disk and letting you decide on a file  >> by file basis. (What a pain!) >>D >> I don't much have experience with other backup programs. So, doesI >> anyone know about other brands' incremental backup restore operations?l( >> Do any of them attempt what VMS does? >> >> Just curious. Thanks. >> >> Disclaimer: JMHO5 >> Alan E. Feldman% >> afeldman atski gfigroup dotski comc >i  1 Not speaking for anyone, certainly not DEC/Compaqr- (get rid of the xxxz in my address to e-mail)a   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2002.337 ************************