1 INFO-VAX	Fri, 21 Jun 2002	Volume 2002 : Issue 341       Contents:& "Alpha is dead" - So what?  VMS lives! Re: "system-f-illiofunc") ??== $print/error_notify=output file name ' All's "not" well in AMD hammer land ...  Re: asm is in the index  Re: Case sensitive identifiers Re: Case sensitive identifiers Re: Could linux become VMS? > Re: DCL Puzzle: Can you produce this DIRECTORY command output?> Re: DCL Puzzle: Can you produce this DIRECTORY command output?& Re: DTSS$NTP_PROVIDER update available+ Re: howto create self-extracting zip files?  Re: Linus' comments about VMS  Re: Linus' comments about VMS  Re: Linus' comments about VMS $ Re: Middle European DST change rules, Re: My conversation with Linus about VMS ..., Re: My conversation with Linus about VMS ..., Re: My conversation with Linus about VMS ...3 Re: Reuters test - Itanium II blows away Sparky III 3 Re: Reuters test - Itanium II blows away Sparky III 3 Re: Reuters test - Itanium II blows away Sparky III 3 Re: Reuters test - Itanium II blows away Sparky III 3 RE: Reuters test - Itanium II blows away Sparky III 3 Re: Reuters test - Itanium II blows away Sparky III " Re: rooted devices and /TRANS=CONC! Re: Sun/Slowaris future in doubt! ; Re: The VMS customer minute of the day: Paper Manufacturing ; Re: The VMS customer minute of the day: Paper Manufacturing ; Re: The VMS customer minute of the day: Paper Manufacturing ; Re: The VMS customer minute of the day: Paper Manufacturing ; Re: The VMS customer minute of the day: Paper Manufacturing ; Re: The VMS customer minute of the day: Paper Manufacturing  Re: unix history Re: unix history? US-NC Spanish Cobol VAX/VMS ACMS FMS Mailbox Programmer/Analyst   VMS Marketing Volunteers, ctd...P Re: VMS MARKETING VOLUNTEERS, LTD. Biz Card Example ( was Re: A Proposal for AllP Re: VMS MARKETING VOLUNTEERS, LTD. Biz Card Example ( was Re: A Proposal for All Re: What is/was LESACP? , RE: What kind of morons work at the FDA now? Why does TCPIP SHOW HOST fail?" Re: Why does TCPIP SHOW HOST fail?" Re: Why does TCPIP SHOW HOST fail?< Re: Why porting apps to VMS isn't very helpful in most cases< Re: Why porting apps to VMS isn't very helpful in most cases  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------    Date: 20 Jun 2002 15:48:32 -0700( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)/ Subject: "Alpha is dead" - So what?  VMS lives! = Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0206201448.446a49b0@posting.google.com>   < All I keep hearing from many in this group is that "Alpha is: dead, Alpha is dead" ... I wonder if these people have one9 too many parrots around the house ... the bottom line is, > WHO CARES!  VMS LIVES!  If VMS is being ported to the itanium,; which according to Terry's Inquirer article today is making ; performance gains on Sun and others, and it works well, who 7 cares about Alpha?  IBM made a platform change with the < System 3X line to AS400/OS400, and most people ran in system= 3X mode even though that killed processor performance by 50%, @ and nobody said a thing.  What we care about is VMS being ported> to a viable, supported platform like an Intel one, and that is? happening, and we can all still run VMS for many years to come, > so who in the heck cares if Alpha is eol'd after EV79, because6 we can still run VMS!  Does this make sense to anyone?   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 14:06:39 -0400 - From: "Peter Weaver" <peter.weaver@stelco.ca> ! Subject: Re: "system-f-illiofunc" 5 Message-ID: <aet5jg$6smu6$1@ID-141708.news.dfncis.de>   + "Keith" <niemankj@SLU.EDU> wrote in message > news:Pine.PMDF.4.21L.0206171405390.556180262-100000@SLU.EDU... > Hi!  >  > ? > i am using richard levitte's fish program for secure copying. A > it works when i run it interactive from my terminal. when i run 4 > it batch i get the following error in my log file. > 0 > %SYSTEM-F-ILLIOFUNC, illegal I/O function code > F > i fooled around with assigning/deassigning sys$input and sys$command1 > to no avail, at least i didn't do it correctly. D > since there is no access to the source code this makes it a little& > trickier. thanks for any pointers...  J Try creating a TT logical pointing to a real terminal that the process can@ write to. I have no idea if this will work, but that's my guess.   -- Peter WeaverL Opinions are my own, and do not reflect the opinions of my employer, nor theK company that it sub-contracts to, nor the company that it sub-contracts to.    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2002 06:40:03 +0200 3 From: "Aus, Hans Magnus" <aus@vim.uni-wuerzburg.de> 2 Subject: ??== $print/error_notify=output file nameB Message-ID: <aus-E25C9D.06400321062002@wrzx08.rz.uni-wuerzburg.de>  I Is there an easy way to redirect printer error messages to a file? These  I error messages appear on the users screen but the user doesn't bother to  
 notify us.  D Something like "$print/error_notify=output file name" would be nice.   --  4 Hans Magnus Aus, Wuerzburg, aus@vim.uni-wuerzburg.de   ------------------------------    Date: 20 Jun 2002 16:04:59 -0700( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)0 Subject: All's "not" well in AMD hammer land ...= Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0206201504.2f0a0d3c@posting.google.com>   # AMD's Hammers likely to be delayed     Not everything is in place  & By Mike Magee, 06/06/2002 09:54:15 BST    D TALKING TO A NUMBER, and that's quite a large number, of vendors andD chipset manufacturers here at Computex, it appears that AMD might beD in some trouble delivering their up coming Hammer family in a timely way.@ Although, as we've reported earlier, you can find boards at manyF places at the Computex show, two separate sources at chipset companiesD have told us that the Clawhammer, for example, is far from ready andC may be delayed even beyond December. One said that realistically we F were talking nine months from now. If that's true, this will be a realE blow not only to people waiting for the uniprocessor systems but also  to AMD.   D The systems and the process appear to be far from ready, with one ofF these sources telling the INQUIRER that AMD was experiencing some realF difficulties moving from .18 micron to .13 micron technology, and that@ it needed to put quite a few elements in place before yields and8 performance were sufficiently good for volume shipments.  E Further, he said, that was also having an effect on AMD's move to the D Thoroughbred core, and if this information is accurate  and we have> little reason to doubt it  that will have a serious effect on	 delivery.   E There are also problems with the Sledgehammer family, we are reliably A informed by another source  this time from a company which makes  boards for the server market.   E According to her, AMD has not yet decided on some basic elements that C it needs to get in place, including chassis types for two way, four E way and other server systems. That's an important element because the D type of market it is selling into will need to know this information well in advance.  E Further, she said, and largely because of AMD's relative inexperience F in this marketplace, it appeared to have no clear idea of the problems2 involved. It was not, for example, supporting SSI.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 15:58:59 -0500 C From: "Craig A. Berry" <craig.berry@nospam.SignalTreeSolutions.com>   Subject: Re: asm is in the indexH Message-ID: <craig.berry-37A81B.15584820062002@news.directvinternet.com>  2 In article <SD0Q8.18$kT1.411773@news.cpqcorp.net>,.  "Kenneth Block" <krblock@computer.org> wrote:  K > The problem is not the index, because ASM is in the index, the problem is & > that it says that it is unsupported. > S > http://www.openvms.compaq.com/commercial/cplus/alpha_doc/ugvimpl.html#index_x_240  > % > Click on ASM directive and it says:  > 2.2.13 asm Declarations A > In the compiler, asm declarations produce a compile-time error.   C This index entry is new in the docs that ship with 6.5 and was not  B present in the 6.2 docs.  The addition is technically correct but F unhelpful because it mentions nothing about #pragma intrinsic (asm).  G So, someone looking up "asm" in the index finds only a pointer to what  G does *not* work (the "asm" declaration/directive in its usual sense on  F other platforms) and nothing about what *does* work, assuming #pragma 8 intrinsic (asm) is indeed the supported way to get this.  D So, the bottom line is it looks like section 2.2.13 as quoted above G should not have any deletions but should have an addition of something  F like "Use #pragma intrinsic (asm) or the available built-in functions E instead" with the appropriate cross-referencing links.  One of those  ? links would point to a section on #pragma intrinsic (asm) that  F presently only exists in on-line help but not in the Users' Guide.  I C guess I stumbled onto the section in on-line help very quickly and  9 assumed the situation was better than it actually is.  It A might also be worth mentioning somewhere that built-ins have the  8 advantage that some VAX built-ins are emulated on Alpha.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 14:36:40 -0400 ( From: David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>' Subject: Re: Case sensitive identifiers , Message-ID: <3D1220B8.5050304@tsoft-inc.com>   Frank Sapienza wrote:   6 > "Brass Christof" <welcome@spam.not> wrote in message$ > news:3D1194EF.1802F085@spam.not... > 6 >>IOW there is a difference between "Kraft" (noun) and >>"kraft" (preposition). >> >> > G > Well, without knowing which natural-language you're referring to, and M > therefore with no basis to argue against your statement, I'll accept it and  > stand corrected.    L You're being a bit too kind.  I won't accept it for reasons described below.    J > However, are you sure you're not referring to context-sensitivity rather > than case-sensitivity?     Yep.    H > In English, there are a lot of words which take on a different meaningM > depending on how they're used in a sentence.  For example, "She piloted her N > craft through the water" .vs. "Their craft was making bread from wheat" .vs.+ > "He could craft a sentence for any word."     O This is a problem with english.  This causes problems in computer based speach  P recognization systems.  Now, how would you like a programming language that was 3 that ambiguous?  I thought not.  It would be chaos.   P In some of my applications there is the capability for a user to use lower case L when setting up some parameters, such as a terms code.  An example would be Q 'xx'.  Now the applications that interface with the users, take an entered terms  Q code and convert it to uppercase, assuming (correctly) that the design calls for  O upper case terms codes, but the keyboard might not have the caps lock engaged.  O Then the computer declares (correctly) that terms code 'XX' doesn't exist, and  L the user will show you a printout that 'xx' is definetely in the terms code O list.  Ok, the problem was the application that didn't perform adequate checks  Q on the entry of terms codes.  But to the user, 'XX' is 'xx' is 'Xx' is 'xX', and  6 just who are we writing these applications for anyway?    J At least where I'm located, there is a 26 letter alphabet. Not a 52 letterL alphabet. People are case indifferent. When anyone can tell me that whateverN they're doing is not for a user, at some point, then let's discuss a 52 letter( alphabet, but I still won't agree to it.   Dave   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 23:58:45 -0400 , From: "Frank Sapienza" <sapienza@noesys.com>' Subject: Re: Case sensitive identifiers , Message-ID: <aeu8fe01m38@enews4.newsguy.com>  > Here's the original comment you made, to which I was replying:  > "Bill Gunshannon" <bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu> wrote in message& news:aesvar$1lfi$1@info.cs.uofs.edu... >>>|> 6 >>>|> OTOH, case-sensitive file-naming is a Unix crock >>> I >>>Matter of opinion.  Not only do I like it, but I make very good use of L >>>the ability.  As do many others I know.  People here compared the commandL >>>structure to natural language and called the Unix commands flawed becauseG >>>they were not full words.  I don;t know about you, but I don't use a  mono- J >>>case natural language so it seems the same logic should dictate that my# >>>filenames be mixed-case as well.   J As I understood it, you believe that Unix' use of case-sensitive filenamesK parallels your non-mono-case natural language.  I'm trying to show you that  it isn't the same thing.  D You agree, I think, that the same word in English (and other naturalK languages) means the same thing whether it's written out in upper-, lower-, L or mixed-case letters.  I also think you agree that we derive the meaning ofL words based on their context, not the style of the letters used to represent them in written form.   K If we extend that to the command-line interface of an operating system, any : operating system, then it follows that in order to be moreI "natural-language-like" the interface should a) not differentiate between G two words that are spelled the same but represented by different letter L case, and b) refer to the same thing/concept when a word is used in the same5 context even if presented in a different letter case.   # So, let's compare Unix commands ...  ls mymixedcasefile.dat ls MyMixedCaseFile.dat   with VMS commands ...  dir mymixedcasefile.dat  dir MyMixedCaseFile.dat   I As typed, the above are valid commands in Unix and VMS, respectively.  In K the Unix examples, the two commands would refer to two different files even L though a) the name is the same except for letter case, and b) the context inD which the filename appears is the same in both commands.  In the VMS9 examples, the two commands always refer to the same file.   K Based on that alone, and putting aside the question of whether ls or dir is 6 a better "word", which command-line "language" is more "natural-language-like"?   Your most recent comments:" > Trying to put this back on topic  ? I don't think we ever left the topic by any significant margin.   # > nothing in Unix forces the use of E > mixed-case for things like filenames.  They can all be in one case.   D Only partially correct.  As the first user to name a file, or as theL developer naming a command, I get to choose whether I create something usingK lower-, upper-, or mixed-case letters and am not forced by Unix into either L choice.  However, anybody that comes after me and wants to use the same fileI or command is, in fact, forced by Unix to use the same letter case that I  initially selected.   D > So, if it is un-natural and 99.9% of the world knows this then wny6 > don't users, particularly new users, stop doing it??  F Why don't you tell us?  When you were a new Unix user, why did you useH mixed-case file names instead of all the same case.  Or, did you not useL mixed-case until after you had developed some experience with Unix?  I wouldH wager that most new Unix users actually use lower-case most of the time,F when they have the choice, because all the commands I can remember areL required to be typed in lower case as well.  I'd also bet that most new UnixI users curse the first few times they forget to disable Caps Lock and type : LS  instead of  ls  and then mumble, "why does it matter?"  E I'd doubt that the reason you started using mixed-case file names was F because you thought it more closely resembled a natural language.  YouI probably started using mixed-case file names because you either a) had to J refer to an existing file that was created using mixed-case letters, or b)L thought that  myInvoiceFile.dat  was easier to read than  myinvoicefile.dat.J Would you even care if Unix stored the file name in all upper-case as longC as it allowed you to refer to it in mixed-case (and displayed it in  mixed-case on an ls listing)?   K Last question: How many times have you forgotten how a mixed-case file name F was formatted and had to do ls * to remind yourself of how it had been! named?  Don't you hate that?  :-)    ------------------------------   Date: 20 Jun 2002 23:27 CDT ' From: carl@gerg.tamu.edu (Carl Perkins) $ Subject: Re: Could linux become VMS?- Message-ID: <20JUN200223275899@gerg.tamu.edu>    bill@cs.scranton.edu writes...- }In article <aeqp10017tl@enews2.newsguy.com>,20 } "Frank Sapienza" <sapienza@noesys.com> writes:B }|> "Bill Gunshannon" <bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu> wrote in message) }|> news:aeps6e$5pt$1@info.cs.uofs.edu... 5 }|> > I don;t know about you, but I don't use a mono-n }|> > case natural languaget }|> G }|> Really?  Does your dictionary show different meanings for the wordsu1 }|> "Dictionary", "DICTIONARY", and "dictionary"?? }|> H }|> All natural languages are mono-case.  Just because we may format ourM }|> sentences using upper- and lower-case letters for appearance doesn't makeu  }|> the language case-sensitive. } B }Surely grammar and convention are as much a part of a language as }a dictionary??    } 9 }otherwise, why do they not teach in school to just writeo }like e. e. cummings?? }  }billc  C Written English *uses* case differences. That does not make it casewE sensitive since the change in case itself does not change the meaning H of the word. (Except when it is a proper noun. English, like all naturalG languages, is riddled with exceptions.) If English were case sensitive,wI it would be impossible to understand e. e. cummings' works (and you wouldoG not have the slightest clue what an "e. e. cummings" was since it isn't E capitalized and therefore would not be at all recognizeable as a namemE since names are capitalized in English and it isn't, thus it couldn't B possibly be a name). Written English uses case. My written FortranF and DCL programs use case. Neither Fortran not DCL are case sensitive,F but that doesn't stop me from using case when programming with them toG make reading the program easier (for me, anyway; I generally capitalizeCF language statements and write out fixed defined keywords in all caps -C i.e. F$Parse(foo,,,"TYPE") when writing a .COM file). Does the factlH that I *use* case for these languages suddenly make them case sensitive?  E Unix: "File" and "file" have different meanings. If you enter them ataK the prompt they will cause different files to be run. It is case sensitive.fE (Like English there are exceptions: you can define one or both the besH aliases for the same thing, or one or both of "[F/f]ile" could be a link* to the other file or some other 3rd file.)  C English: "File" and "file" have the same meaning(s). It is not case5F sensitive. (The only exception I can think of is if you happen to knowD one or more people named File and might be talking about one or more	 of them.)n   --- Carl   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 18:45:30 GMT < From: DCantor@remove.three.words.shore.net (David A. Cantor)G Subject: Re: DCL Puzzle: Can you produce this DIRECTORY command output?!< Message-ID: <bppQ8.30567$Na1.948461@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net>  m In article <343f30ae.0206200820.57108db3@posting.google.com>, SPAMSINK2001@YAHOO.COM (Alan E. Feldman) wrote:u: >SPAMSINK2001@YAHOO.COM (Alan E. Feldman) wrote in message; > news:<343f30ae.0206141439.2b094aa4@posting.google.com>...n >> Hello DCL users!r  H >> Can you construct an argument for the DIRECTORY command that produces0 >> the following output?:  (Sorry, no prizes :-( >> Directory SPOOK:a   >> *.*;    >> Total of 1 file.l  F Okay, I've seen the responses from others and have been hacking a bit.+ I'm still cheating, but I'm getting closer.r   $ mcr latcp show porte  H Port Name  Port Type    Status         Remote Target (Node/Port/Service)I ---------  -----------  -------------  ----------------------------------:6 _LTA5003:  Application  Inactive       XYZZY//DECLASER   $ def spook lta5003:  < $ dir = "directory/nohead/select=file=(nodevice,nodirectory)   $ Directory SPOOK: *.*;*              .   Total of 1 file. $   6 XYZZY, of course, is not the real name of the printer.   Dave C.r   ------------------------------   Date: 20 Jun 2002 23:43 CDTb' From: carl@gerg.tamu.edu (Carl Perkins)fG Subject: Re: DCL Puzzle: Can you produce this DIRECTORY command output?d- Message-ID: <20JUN200223434138@gerg.tamu.edu>d  k In article <bppQ8.30567$Na1.948461@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net>, DCantor@remove.three.words.shore.net writes... n }In article <343f30ae.0206200820.57108db3@posting.google.com>, SPAMSINK2001@YAHOO.COM (Alan E. Feldman) wrote:; }>SPAMSINK2001@YAHOO.COM (Alan E. Feldman) wrote in messages< }> news:<343f30ae.0206141439.2b094aa4@posting.google.com>... }>> Hello DCL users! } I }>> Can you construct an argument for the DIRECTORY command that produceso1 }>> the following output?:  (Sorry, no prizes :-(- }>> Directory SPOOK: }  }>> *.*; }  }>> Total of 1 file. } G }Okay, I've seen the responses from others and have been hacking a bit.p, }I'm still cheating, but I'm getting closer. }  }$ mcr latcp show port } I }Port Name  Port Type    Status         Remote Target (Node/Port/Service)mJ }---------  -----------  -------------  ----------------------------------7 }_LTA5003:  Application  Inactive       XYZZY//DECLASER" }  }$ def spook lta5003:f } = }$ dir = "directory/nohead/select=file=(nodevice,nodirectory)i }  }$ Directory SPOOK:- }*.*;*               }  }Total of 1 file.0 }$ 0 } 7 }XYZZY, of course, is not the real name of the printer.: }  }Dave C.  G Instead of just a DIR at that point, try DIR *.*; (just ";", not ";*").n   --- Carl   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 23:43:07 +0200 ) From: Bart Zorn <B.Zorn@xs4all.nospam.nl> / Subject: Re: DTSS$NTP_PROVIDER update availableb/ Message-ID: <3D124C6B.1070605@xs4all.nospam.nl>    Sven Tieste wrote: > Hello,C > we are using DTSS$NTP_PROVIDER to synronise the time of our Alpha  > with a central server.G > The central server  has been updated to NTP 4. The request we send ist7 > unfortunately Version 1. NTP 4 don't understand NTP1.t6 > Question is if a newer version of  DTSS$NTP_PROVIDER > exist and how to get it.D > Maybe we have to change our time synchronisation. Some suggestionsN > of safe and easy ways to use the synchronisation server which provides NTP4?2 > So, don't let our timeless Alpha being timeless. > Sven >  > p.s.L > kind regards to Peter and Christoph from de.comp.os.vms for there answers!    I I know that TCP/IP engineering has a working version. I have it too, and cD I am using it both on my home system and at the company I work for. H There may be a chance that it is distributed with TCP/IP V5.3. It could ' also be coming with DECnet-Plus V7.3-1.h   I have not seen both kits, yet.'   HTH,  	 Bart Zornu   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 19:33:21 GMTa0 From: Wayne Morrison <Wayne.Morrison@compaq.com>4 Subject: Re: howto create self-extracting zip files?& Message-ID: <3D122C09.E840EF6A@hp.com>   Brian Tillman wrote: >iF > Is this another one of those, "well, everyone but the Luddites using# > VAXes get it" items?  If so, why?e  L I knew the general answer, but I went back to my management to confirm this:  L Currently, we don't have a good business case for providing CDSA on VAX, andM there are no immediate plans to provide it on that platform.  If you're awareiJ of any VAX sites that need this functionality, we'd like to hear about it.  J There are no technical reasons why we couldn't build a version of CDSA forI VAX.  It's primarily a matter of needing to choose where you spend finite-D engineering resources.  Between the Itanium port and significant newG functionality (yes, mostly on Alpha), we're keeping rather busy here in: OpenVMS.   	Wayne Morrisons 	CDSA Project Leader 	OpenVMS Security group.   ------------------------------   Date: 20 Jun 2002 22:50:55 GMT/ From: Thomas Dickey <dickey@saltmine.radix.net>r& Subject: Re: Linus' comments about VMS* Message-ID: <aetm8f$rfp$1@news1.Radix.Net>   G Everhart <ge@gce.com> wrote:: > I have to wonder if Linus last saw VMS at, say, V2 or V3@ > back when max filename size was 9.3 characters, all uppercase?  N doubtful - unless it was an out-of-date system.  The 39.39 hack was introducedJ in the mid-80's.  (It's been case-independent longer than that - uppercase, systems are a different thing altogether ;-)   -- h= Thomas E. Dickey <dickey@radix.net> <dickey@herndon4.his.com>n http://dickey.his.coma ftp://dickey.his.com   ------------------------------   Date: 21 Jun 02 07:38:56 +0200) From: p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture)i& Subject: Re: Linus' comments about VMS) Message-ID: <MJOxIDRmhRO8@elias.decus.ch>*  \ In article <aetm8f$rfp$1@news1.Radix.Net>, Thomas Dickey <dickey@saltmine.radix.net> writes:  > G Everhart <ge@gce.com> wrote:; >> I have to wonder if Linus last saw VMS at, say, V2 or V3hA >> back when max filename size was 9.3 characters, all uppercase?a > P > doubtful - unless it was an out-of-date system.  The 39.39 hack was introducedL > in the mid-80's.  (It's been case-independent longer than that - uppercase. > systems are a different thing altogether ;-) > I Well, it could have been out of date. My first sight of V4 in Europe  was-M something like March 1985 and the last customer I saw running V3 was in 1989.   O Now let's look at the Linux timeframe: http://www.li.org/linuxhistory.php tellstL us that the first sighting on the net of what would become of Linux was 1991N (forget the header claiming July 31 1992, the email quoted says "3 Jul 1991").   He was born on b __
 Paul Sture Switzerlandr   ------------------------------   Date: 21 Jun 02 07:49:27 +0200) From: p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture)n& Subject: Re: Linus' comments about VMS) Message-ID: <e3yDh65CS3uB@elias.decus.ch>f  D Linus and VMS continued (sorry - sent the last message prematurely): > J From http://www.tuxedo.org/~esr/faqs/linus/ we see that Linux was born on L December 28th 1969, so the 1991 time frame of the birth of Linux seems about right.  M Therefore it would seem unlikely that his experience of VMS was limited to V2e or V3.   __
 Paul Sture Switzerlando   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 23:38:45 +0200 ) From: Bart Zorn <B.Zorn@xs4all.nospam.nl> - Subject: Re: Middle European DST change rulese- Message-ID: <3D124B65.80608@xs4all.nospam.nl>    Hoff Hoffman wrote:eg > In article <9a924482.0206182210.5cafb23b@posting.google.com>, bart.zorn@xs4all.nl (Bart Zorn) writes:e >  > ..D > :Maybe the solution is to document (and I mean really document andG > :not the sorry excuse for documentation that is taken over from Un*x)lE > :the procedure to implement one's own time zone rules! Part of thisI@ > :documentaion should include the way to install this new rule.; > :I have managed to compile one, but failed to install it.r > .. >  > M >   Is the documentation on creating a timezone rule for "WhereEverLand" thataN >   is included in the current OpenVMS FAQ insufficient?  (If I have not addedM >   sufficient detail on this topic into the FAQ, I'd like to hear about it.)  >  > P >  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------P >       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.com    P >  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------N >    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com >   % I must admit I did not check the FAQ.t  J Next week I will do that, and again try to install my own TDF change rule.   I will let you know.   Have a nice weekend!  	 Bart Zornt   ------------------------------   Date: 20 Jun 2002 22:30:46 GMT+ From: "Joe Heimann" <heimann@ecs.umass.edu>i5 Subject: Re: My conversation with Linus about VMS ...l, Message-ID: <aetl2m$d5p$2@odo.ecs.umass.edu>  ( Carl Perkins <carl@gerg.tamu.edu> wrote:- > carl@gerg.tamu.edu (Carl Perkins) writes...a   > Replying to myself...C   > How is this for weird:  % > }There are 4 dots on the next line:o > }....e5 > }They may, or may not, all make it through to you. n  A > Note that there are, in fact, 4 dots in the above automatically  > quoted section.i  E > But this is what I actually saw when I was reading it, cut'n'pastedn > and quoted manually:  % > }There are 4 dots on the next line:  > }...4 > }They may, or may not, all make it through to you.  H > So my own news client strips a leading dot from a line when displayingH > the article, but includes all of them in the quoted text when replying > to an article.  & > This behavior is rather sub-optimal.  
 > --- Carl  I It may be sub-optimal, but is a documented action in one of the RFC's.  IaI forget whether it is one of the news related RFC's or email related.  ButiG leading "."'s on a line usually indicate a command to be interpreted bygH the transferring protocol.  So doubling up the "." is used to indicate aH period is actually supposed to be there.  Depending on how well this wasH implemented in the software used, it sometimes gets processed completely
 correctly.   Joe Heimanne   ------------------------------   Date: 20 Jun 2002 23:52 CDTl' From: carl@gerg.tamu.edu (Carl Perkins)i5 Subject: Re: My conversation with Linus about VMS ...n- Message-ID: <20JUN200223524212@gerg.tamu.edu>t  / "Joe Heimann" <heimann@ecs.umass.edu> writes...eJ }It may be sub-optimal, but is a documented action in one of the RFC's.  IJ }forget whether it is one of the news related RFC's or email related.  ButH }leading "."'s on a line usually indicate a command to be interpreted byI }the transferring protocol.  So doubling up the "." is used to indicate apI }period is actually supposed to be there.  Depending on how well this wasiI }implemented in the software used, it sometimes gets processed completely  }correctly.  }  }Joe Heimann  : They clearly failed to consider what would happen to those using morse code.o  I Also those designing such a protocall are, I would say, clearly deranged. H There are perfectly good non-printing characters you could use to signal: in-band control data (it's what they are there for, even).   --- Carl   ------------------------------   Date: 21 Jun 02 07:20:59 +0200) From: p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture)r5 Subject: Re: My conversation with Linus about VMS ...l) Message-ID: <P+8aew$ORBFq@elias.decus.ch>t  Z In article <aetl2m$d5p$2@odo.ecs.umass.edu>, "Joe Heimann" <heimann@ecs.umass.edu> writes:* > Carl Perkins <carl@gerg.tamu.edu> wrote:. >> carl@gerg.tamu.edu (Carl Perkins) writes... >  >> Replying to myself... >  >> How is this for weird:A > & >> }There are 4 dots on the next line: >> }....6 >> }They may, or may not, all make it through to you.  > B >> Note that there are, in fact, 4 dots in the above automatically >> quoted section. > F >> But this is what I actually saw when I was reading it, cut'n'pasted >> and quoted manually:o > & >> }There are 4 dots on the next line: >> }...t5 >> }They may, or may not, all make it through to you.  > I >> So my own news client strips a leading dot from a line when displayingoI >> the article, but includes all of them in the quoted text when replyingy >> to an article.f > ' >> This behavior is rather sub-optimal.d >  >> --- Carli > K > It may be sub-optimal, but is a documented action in one of the RFC's.  I K > forget whether it is one of the news related RFC's or email related.  But I > leading "."'s on a line usually indicate a command to be interpreted byeJ > the transferring protocol.  So doubling up the "." is used to indicate aJ > period is actually supposed to be there.  Depending on how well this wasJ > implemented in the software used, it sometimes gets processed completely > correctly. > I Yep. I forget most of the details, but a telex program I once worked with I took a dot on the first position of a line with nothing else as a messagee terminator.) __
 Paul Sture Switzerlandg   ------------------------------    Date: 20 Jun 2002 13:40:52 -0700( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)< Subject: Re: Reuters test - Itanium II blows away Sparky III< Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0206201240.f1abc34@posting.google.com>  _ "Frank Sapienza" <sapienza@noesys.com> wrote in message news:<aesnih0rls@enews3.newsguy.com>...nE > Well, this certainly goes into the "good new, bad news" department.n > L > Good if you happen to not like Sun systems and are looking for ammunition. > N > Bad because Reuters has historically been a very large Digital shop.  In theJ > old days they had a dedicated field service (and sales) team for each ofH > their offices.  I'm sure they still have their dozens of VAX and AlphaK > systems (and maybe some PDP-11s still) but this might signal that they'ren > transitioning away from VMS. > I > I once did some contract work at the local Reuters office and wrote a C$I > application which ran on both VMS and Windows/DOS with only a recompileo7 > necessary.  Maybe that was an omen of things to come?   ? Why?  That only proves that itanium is slowly becoming a viablen= platform for VMS, which is being ported?  Why leave then to aa> inferior platform, not to mention lose your VMS investment and; buy 80,000 boxes with 80,000 chips and tons of software forn> security and clustering that VMS already has ... if Itanium is/ a viable platform for VMS to run on, why leave?s   ------------------------------    Date: 20 Jun 2002 15:38:02 -0700( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)< Subject: Re: Reuters test - Itanium II blows away Sparky III< Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0206201438.69a9b08@posting.google.com>  Z David Mathog <mathog@caltech.edu> wrote in message news:<3D11FFDD.1FCC3C6A@caltech.edu>... > Bob Ceculski wrote:  > D > > The test showed that the soon-to-be-announced HP 4-way Itanium 2H > > server logged results that were four times faster than the 8-way SunF > > Fire 3800 server. The result was achieved on an Itanium 2-based HPI > > server configured with four 1 GHz McKinley processors, 16GB of memoryrI > > and two 18GB hard drives using a beta version of the 64-bit Microsofte > > Windows OS.h > C > Ah yes, the faithful "performance win for morons" gambit. Partialn9 > information on a "comparison" is the hallmark of unfair  > and misleading tests.n > A > Notice they don't say how much memory was in the Sun, what kindr? > of disks either was using, or what types of network card were ; > employed.  Pretty easy to make a test go your way if yournA > "competitor" has insufficient memory, slow disks, and/or a sloweB > nic. For that matter, is the Fire 3800 the current model?  We've< > already seen Intel comparing Itanium to older Sparc chips.= > Anybody know what this particular application does?  Was itkC > CPU limited on either platform?  Ie, is there any evidence AT ALLlD > that the Itanium part of the HP server provided the 4X performance7 > improvement, which is what the press release implies." > E > If I had to bet I'd wager that the HP had much more memory than the F > Sun (because 16Gb is still a lot of memory) and that this particularD > application was able to make use of it (if only for disk caching).E > Now HP might have a selling point still if the Sun cannot hold that5I > much memory - but it would  have nothing to do with Itanium performancej	 > per se.L > 
 > Regards, >  > David Mathog > mathog@caltech.edu  E what's wrong with that?  Sun and others ahve been doing the same withe Alpha for years ....   ------------------------------    Date: 20 Jun 2002 15:39:11 -0700( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)< Subject: Re: Reuters test - Itanium II blows away Sparky III= Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0206201439.65f06d9c@posting.google.com>c  s "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote in message news:<HwmQ8.41739$_j6.2392907@bin3.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>...c9 > "Frank Sapienza" <sapienza@noesys.com> wrote in message'' > news:aesnih0rls@enews3.newsguy.com...eG > > Well, this certainly goes into the "good new, bad news" department.c > >cN > > Good if you happen to not like Sun systems and are looking for ammunition. > I > Sounded like Terry in 'advocate' (as distinct from 'unbiased observer')-M > mode, since information about the Sun configuration that would have allowed5F > a more informed judgement to be made about the purported results was > conspicuously absent.  > G > Funny how there's *still* no release of apples-to-apples (e.g., SPEC)a > comparisons... >  > - bill  C what's wrong with that?  Sun and others have been doing the same to  Alpha for years ...a   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 21:29:55 -0400n, From: "Frank Sapienza" <sapienza@noesys.com>< Subject: Re: Reuters test - Itanium II blows away Sparky III+ Message-ID: <aetvoi0r1i@enews4.newsguy.com>r  5 "Bob Ceculski" <bob@instantwhip.com> wrote in messageb6 news:d7791aa1.0206201240.f1abc34@posting.google.com...A > Why?  That only proves that itanium is slowly becoming a viable ? > platform for VMS, which is being ported?  Why leave then to am@ > inferior platform, not to mention lose your VMS investment and= > buy 80,000 boxes with 80,000 chips and tons of software forp@ > security and clustering that VMS already has ... if Itanium is1 > a viable platform for VMS to run on, why leave?r   I don't know the answer.  L As much as I love VMS I have to admit that software publishers don't seem toH see it as a viable market.  My clients still use Compaq compilers with aJ command-line interface.  No visual development tools are available, as farH as I know, for stuff like Basic or Java or C or C++.  (I do admit, also,K that I haven't looked into the JVM on Alpha and I don't know how it behaveseF under DECwindows.)  And, let's face it, GUI applications are much moreD exciting and in demand than character-cell applications.  All of theJ front-end stuff I do is written in Visual Basic or Java on a PC using ODBCC to get to the VMS systems.  End-users like clicking on things.  :-)-  H Having contracted at Reuters and knowing the investment they have in VMSL systems, I understand it would require another huge investment to retire allK that stuff.  Maybe they only did that one application under Itanium/Windows K and they're going to keep their back-end stuff on VMS/Sybase (which is whataJ they were running when I was there).  Maybe they've decided that they needF to use modern development tools, or are having a hard time finding VMSJ programmers (1), or who knows what, and this is indicative of a transition away from VMS.  H Again, I don't know.  It just seems odd to me that a company with such aG large investment in VMS systems, applications, and staff would choose a J different platform to develop what sounds like a fairly large and critical application.    @ (1) It seems to me that schools are pumping out programmers withJ Windows/Unix C/C++/Java/VB experience.  That's where the demand appears toI be, so you don't want to be training Cobol programmers -- it doesn't helpaK get your students hired.  For the same reason you're not going to develop aEE curriculum around VMS if all the recruiters coming to your school areZ* looking for Unix/Linux/Windows experience.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2002 00:20:59 -0400m' From: "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@hp.com>e< Subject: RE: Reuters test - Itanium II blows away Sparky IIIT Message-ID: <BE56C50EA024184DAF48F0B9A47F5CF4026607B4@kaoexc01.americas.cpqcorp.net>   Frank -g  H >>> As much as I love VMS I have to admit that software publishers don't% seem to see it as a viable market.<<<i  D Actually, with Java becoming much more popular the "develop on cheapB stuff, deploy on real stuff" mentality is rapidly gaining a lot of@ momentum. Even large UNIX shops are using cheap PC's to do theirF Java/J2EE development stuff on with the real stuff being UNIX high end systems. =20   Here are a few examples:  / http://www.iona.com/pressroom/2002/20020327.htmeB "IONA ANNOUNCES ORBIX E2A APPLICATION SERVER PLATFORM FOR COMPAQ'S OPENVMS OPERATING SYSTEM  B IONA Orbix E2A Application Server Platform Enables Development and@ Deployment of Web Services Applications in the OpenVMS Operating Environment   B JavaOnesm Conference 2002 - San Francisco, CA. - March 27, 2002 --B IONA(r), the leading e-Business Platform provider for Web ServicesC Integration (NASDAQ: IONA), today announced the availability of thevG Orbix E2A(tm) Application Server Platform on Compaq's OpenVMS operatingsD system. IONA's Orbix E2A Application Server Platform offers Compaq'sC OpenVMS customers a J2EE(tm)-compliant and Web services-architected9G platform for application and e-Business infrastructure development."=20r  8 http://www.spiritsoft.com/news/pressreleases.asp?id=3D24F "SpiritSoft Achieves OpenVMS Certification "SpiritWave enables OpenVMSE customers to develop Java-based enterprise messaging systems" Boston,-
 June 12, 2002-  A SpiritSoft today announced the certification of its JMS messaginglG integration product, SpiritWave Message Server, on the Hewlett- PackardOC OpenVMS platform. SpiritWave provides OpenVMS customers with a J2EEaF messaging architecture, allowing Java- based messaging applications to be built on OpenVMS."n  5 http://www.mgex.com/news/news_releases/release28.htmln? "February 21, 2002 Successful Launch of Electronic Trading, Newb' Contracts at Minneapolis Grain Exchangem  E MINNEAPOLIS-Officials of the Minneapolis Grain Exchange (MGEX) statedeB that they are very pleased with initial performance of their newlyF launched electronic trading system, MGEXpress, and National Corn IndexF (NCI) and National Soybean Index (NSI) futures and options contracts."  * http://www.dataglider.com/news/press4.html; "Toronto, Ontario - January 7, 2002 - DataGlider brings newhA functionality and a new look to OpenVMS by using powerful web ande= wireless integration capabilities to extend existing businessh applications to the Web.=209  D Organizations can build on the investment they have already made andH bring new web-based functionality to OpenVMS. DataGlider can dynamically> link enterprise applications and data systems into a seamless,? real-time, unified view of information. Customers, partners andeE employees can interact with multiple back-end business systems from ae$ single source using a web-browser. "  ) http://www.onexchange.com/press112601.asp1C "Cambridge, MA - November 26, 2001 - onExchange, Inc., the  leading E provider of comprehensive derivatives clearing and trading technologyrC and services to regulated and over-the-counter (OTC) markets, today-E announced a business and technology relationship with Compaq ComputeraG Corporation to deliver electronic clearing and trading solutions to theDB derivatives markets on Compaq's OpenVMS software operating system.  = Today, derivatives clearinghouses, exchanges, banks and otherrA organizations running applications on the powerful Compaq OpenVMSsC operating system, can benefit from onExchange's Extensible Clearing D System and Extensible Trading Engine. The system's straight-through-A processing (STP) methodology enables true real-time processing by 8 clearing and settling a trade as soon as it is matched."  D >>> (1) It seems to me that schools are pumping out programmers with) Windows/Unix C/C++/Java/VB experience.<<<   H Actually, the trend is starting to go away from MS technologies and moveH to open source and Java technologies as indicated in this press release:C (note - Java does still have some issues to address, but from a VMS-C perspective, these are all potential new VMS app's and programmers)   B http://news.com.com/2009-1001-868454.html?tag=3Ddd.ne.dtx.nl-sty.0B "That trend is reflected in academia as well. At the Massachusetts@ Institute of Technology, the computer science department in 1997H replaced Microsoft's C++ with Java as the primary software language that> students are required to learn. This spring, the University of@ California at Berkeley offered 25 Java courses and only seven on Microsoft languages.  A "In my mind, Java is rapidly going to displace all the languages,eF particularly C++," MIT associate professor Daniel Jackson said, notingE that undergraduate students are increasingly teaching themselves somelG Java even before attending his classes. In two years, the College Board H will switch from C++ to Java for the computer science advanced placementD tests that high school students take to get credit for college-level	 courses."t   Regards   
 Kerry Main Senior Consultanti Hewlett-Packard Canada! Consulting & Integration Servicesn Voice: 613-592-4660h Fax   : 613-591-4477 Email: Kerry.Main@hp.com     -----Original Message-----4 From: Frank Sapienza [mailto:sapienza@noesys.com]=20 Sent: June 20, 2002 9:30 PM  To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comm< Subject: Re: Reuters test - Itanium II blows away Sparky III    5 "Bob Ceculski" <bob@instantwhip.com> wrote in message 6 news:d7791aa1.0206201240.f1abc34@posting.google.com...D > Why?  That only proves that itanium is slowly becoming a viable=20H > platform for VMS, which is being ported?  Why leave then to a inferior  H > platform, not to mention lose your VMS investment and buy 80,000 boxes  G > with 80,000 chips and tons of software for security and clustering=20oH > that VMS already has ... if Itanium is a viable platform for VMS to=20 > run on, why leave?   I don't know the answer.  D As much as I love VMS I have to admit that software publishers don't? seem to see it as a viable market.  My clients still use Compaq E compilers with a command-line interface.  No visual development toolscE are available, as far as I know, for stuff like Basic or Java or C or2H C++.  (I do admit, also, that I haven't looked into the JVM on Alpha andG I don't know how it behaves under DECwindows.)  And, let's face it, GUIsE applications are much more exciting and in demand than character-celltC applications.  All of the front-end stuff I do is written in VisualnF Basic or Java on a PC using ODBC to get to the VMS systems.  End-users like clicking on things.  :-)t  H Having contracted at Reuters and knowing the investment they have in VMSH systems, I understand it would require another huge investment to retire? all that stuff.  Maybe they only did that one application underhA Itanium/Windows and they're going to keep their back-end stuff onrE VMS/Sybase (which is what they were running when I was there).  MaybenF they've decided that they need to use modern development tools, or areF having a hard time finding VMS programmers (1), or who knows what, and1 this is indicative of a transition away from VMS._  H Again, I don't know.  It just seems odd to me that a company with such aG large investment in VMS systems, applications, and staff would choose a<A different platform to develop what sounds like a fairly large andd critical application.i    @ (1) It seems to me that schools are pumping out programmers withG Windows/Unix C/C++/Java/VB experience.  That's where the demand appears G to be, so you don't want to be training Cobol programmers -- it doesn'tnF help get your students hired.  For the same reason you're not going toD develop a curriculum around VMS if all the recruiters coming to your5 school are looking for Unix/Linux/Windows experience.t   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 23:27:27 -0500>C From: "Craig A. Berry" <craig.berry@nospam.SignalTreeSolutions.com>>< Subject: Re: Reuters test - Itanium II blows away Sparky IIIH Message-ID: <craig.berry-ADC1D1.23272720062002@news.directvinternet.com>  + In article <aetvoi0r1i@enews4.newsguy.com>,e.  "Frank Sapienza" <sapienza@noesys.com> wrote:  N > As much as I love VMS I have to admit that software publishers don't seem to > see it as a viable market.  D It's true there are only thousands rather than tens of thousands of G available applications, and in certain sectors that hurts.  At least a pE great many basic tools and technologies are there if you want them.  u@ Pick your favorite standards-based buzz-acronym in the world of E software development and there's a good chance a VMS version exists,  ' SOAP being the most recent (this week).   . > My clients still use Compaq compilers with a > command-line interface.  i  H An excellent choice, if I may say so, but there's no reason for them to  do that unless they want to.  4 >  No visual development tools are available, as far8 > as I know, for stuff like Basic or Java or C or C++.    E Nonsense. Go to <http://www.openvms.compaq.com/commercial/> and look 2E for "DECSet Clients," "Enterprise Toolkit," and "Visual Threads" for >@ examples of GUI development tools that assist in developing VMS F applications.  These are variously available either for DECWindows or D as MS Windows clients, or both, though not all of the languages you E mention are supported for all products.  Of course all languages are tH supported for the OpenVMS debugger, which is available with a character D cell interface, a DECwindows interface, or as an MS Windows client, H purely depending on preference.  I find that -- perhaps only from habit G -- I end up using the character cell interface unless I am debugging a d? program that does a lot of I/O to the terminal.  LSE (language  E sensitive editor) has also had a DECwindows interface for quite some l? time that is unrelated to the "DECSet Clients" mentioned above.h  F Should there be a more up-to-date IDE that runs on VMS?  Definitely.  2 But that's quite different from saying "no tools."  4 > And, let's face it, GUI applications are much more; > exciting and in demand than character-cell applications. w  H Maybe, maybe not.  But that's really another issue.  The environment in H which the application runs and the environment in which the application H is developed are at most loosely related topics.  Some people hand-code F HTML in a text editor and a lot of people use DreamWeaver, FrontPage, ) etc., but the result is still a web page.p  
 >  All of the>L > front-end stuff I do is written in Visual Basic or Java on a PC using ODBC > to get to the VMS systems.    G And that's entirely appropriate if you are developing clients that are aD to run on the PC.  Of course if you are coding in a highly portable F language like Java or Perl, it doesn't much matter where you develop; > you can deploy anywhere else.  This is not a particularly new E phenomenon; I seem to remember that MicroFocus COBOL could (can?) be o5 developed on the PC and deployed just about anywhere.y  ) > End-users like clicking on things.  :-)   I Unless s/he uses the same application all day every day and is concerned  D about performance.  I dread the day the person checking bags at the  airport switches to GUI.    J > Having contracted at Reuters and knowing the investment they have in VMSN > systems, I understand it would require another huge investment to retire allM > that stuff.  Maybe they only did that one application under Itanium/WindowstM > and they're going to keep their back-end stuff on VMS/Sybase (which is what ( > they were running when I was there).    A Sybase may be one of their problems.  Development stopped on VMS iG several years ago and support stopped sometime in, I believe, the last oH year. I think VMS 6.2 was the last data point on the supported versions H matrix. This puts folks in a bit of a bind because if they upgrade to a H version of VMS recent enough to run Java or CSWS, they are on a version B that is not known to work with Sybase.  We've been running Sybase F 11.0.2 on VMS 7.1 for quite some time with no problems, and I've done F some basic tests with v7.3 without seeing any trouble, but if you did = run into problems in such an environment you'd really be SOL.    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 22:44:11 +0200o5 From: "GWDVMS::MOELLER" <moeller@gwdvms.dnet.gwdg.de>-+ Subject: Re: rooted devices and /TRANS=CONC:. Message-ID: <E17L8mp-0000ip-00@mailer.gwdg.de>  ; Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@SYSDEV.DEUTSCHE-BOERSE.COM> writes:I > [...]-I > Good summary.  It seems like /TRAN=CONC behaves like /TRAN=TERM in thist > case.c >[...]  5 It's not a (2nd) logical name translation that fails,.7 but *RMS* insisting that a /TRANS=CONC equivalence namey3 has exactly one of two syntactical formats - eitherw 	name + ":"  or 	name1 + ":[" + name2 + ".]"  ? Note that without /TRANS=CONC, RMS permits a variety of formatsn0 (any complete or incomplete file specification).  M Wolfgang J. Moeller, Tel. +49 551 201-1516/-1510, moeller@gwdvms.dnet.gwdg.deeM GWDG, D-37077 Goettingen, F.R.Germany     |    Disclaimer: No claim intended!oM http://www.gwdg.de/~moeller/ ---- <moeller@gwdg.de> ---- <w.moeller@ieee.org>    ------------------------------    Date: 20 Jun 2002 15:57:56 -0700( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)* Subject: Re: Sun/Slowaris future in doubt!= Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0206201457.37a60534@posting.google.com>r  u "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> wrote in message news:<qmnQ8.418557$t8_.376314@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>...y7 > "Bob Ceculski" <bob@instantwhip.com> wrote in message 8 > news:d7791aa1.0206200538.3bd4a7a@posting.google.com... > >bF > > and if itanic/epic does fail, I say that is why Intel bought AlphaC > > insurance and you will see EV8 - EV9 pop up again with an IntelnF > > logo on it ... Intel will not risk the failure, and a Hammer knockD > > off will not help them compete in the high end, only Alpha would7 > > then ... of course, Bill Todd disagrees with me ...i > N > Thanks to Digital/Compaq/HP, it will be Microsoft that benefits the most if,N > as, and when IA64 flops. They will have a perfectly credible (in many fool's& > eyes) 64-bit os that runs on Hammer. > M > Nobody in the MS-space will trust HP to supply hardware to them, even it itcG > was Hammer-based. "Hello Dell, I'd like to place a very large order."u > K > And as to the poor unix/VMS/NSK types who bought the Intel/Compaq/HP linevJ > about how good IA64 will be, they will take their cash and chant the new > motto, "In IBM we trust".e  0 not if they are keeping up with EV8 as a backup!   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 21:26:31 +0200i" From: "Hans Vlems" <hvlems@iae.nl>D Subject: Re: The VMS customer minute of the day: Paper Manufacturing5 Message-ID: <aet9pv$9t7hg$1@ID-143435.news.dfncis.de>    Beautiful Didier :-)    8 Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@Free.fr> wrote in message! news:3D12088F.E2CACB41@Free.fr...a6 > [disclaimer: this is a *true* story, written my way] >e >nG > I went to visit a Customer today. They have a huge plant, where treesk enter byL > one side and paper exits by the other. All this driven by a cluster of two 4100,aJ > a thousand of Fortran (77) programs, Rdb and PC-driven automats. Bob was theira > uncle since 15 years.r >aF > Then a new CEO came and said: "IT close future will be UNIX/Oracle". Period.M > J > An Oracle guru came later and installed Oracle Server on a PC. He gave a demo toe > the VMS folks here.a >i  > This happened during the demo: >i	 > [start]tJ > Someone asked: "Is this real robust software compared to Rdb/VMS?" (they still  > say VMS).e >a > Oracle guru said: "sure".g >m3 > VMS system manager asked: "may I type a command?"t >w > Oracle guru: "Sure"  > B > The VMS guy deleted the Oracle demo database with a command like f$trnlnm("$o > delete oracle.db;*","unix")e >aJ > Oracle Guru: "you see, the db is deleted but we still have access to the data,i5 > because they were in a cache. This is really good".e >r > VMS guy: ... >-A > Oracle Kernel said: "database corrupted, Sir, cannot continue."m >MI > VMS guy to Oracle guru: "one can delete a file opened in update mode ono your > system, Sir?"s >-I > Oracle guru: "Well, you see, I'm just an Oracle specialist, not an UNIX> system manager." > [end]  >IK > The VMS system manager wrote a report to his manager, who sent the report  to theK > IT manager, with some comments on the fact that maybe they could keep VMSc for F > the moment. The IT manager sent the report and the comments with his comments tor > the new CEO. >sD > What do you think occurred? The new CEO purchased two ES40/OpenVMS
 7.3/Oracle 8.U > I > Moral: "The reason of the strongest (in marketing, advertising, supportr [addB > your favourites in here] is not always the best one" (Jean de la
 Fontaine). >P' > (with a special thank you to Stan R.)b >E > D. > --4 >   ------------------------------------------------4 > MORANDI Consultants  http://Didier.Morandi.Free.fr2 >   19 chemin de la Butte, 31400 Toulouse, France.4 > Tel.: +33 (0)6 7983 6418 - Fax: +33 (0)5 6154 19284 > OpenVMS, APPLE, Computer Security, Migration plans4 > --------------------------------------------------   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 23:58:12 +0200r) From: Bart Zorn <B.Zorn@xs4all.nospam.nl>nD Subject: Re: The VMS customer minute of the day: Paper Manufacturing/ Message-ID: <3D124FF4.2030003@xs4all.nospam.nl>p   Hans Vlems wrote:s > Beautiful Didier :-)  G OK, but what did they gain by buying Oracle 8 instead of continuing to i use Rdb?  	 Bart ZornS   >  > : > Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@Free.fr> wrote in message# > news:3D12088F.E2CACB41@Free.fr...o > 6 >>[disclaimer: this is a *true* story, written my way] >> >>G >>I went to visit a Customer today. They have a huge plant, where trees  > 
 > enter by > L >>one side and paper exits by the other. All this driven by a cluster of two >  > 4100,t > J >>a thousand of Fortran (77) programs, Rdb and PC-driven automats. Bob was >  > theirm >  >>uncle since 15 years.l >>F >>Then a new CEO came and said: "IT close future will be UNIX/Oracle". > 	 > Period.t > J >>An Oracle guru came later and installed Oracle Server on a PC. He gave a > 	 > demo tos >  >>the VMS folks here.p >>  >>This happened during the demo: >>	 >>[start]hJ >>Someone asked: "Is this real robust software compared to Rdb/VMS?" (they >  > stille >  >>say VMS).t >> >>Oracle guru said: "sure".t >>3 >>VMS system manager asked: "may I type a command?"i >> >>Oracle guru: "Sure"l >>B >>The VMS guy deleted the Oracle demo database with a command like > 
 > f$trnlnm("$e >  >>delete oracle.db;*","unix")n >>J >>Oracle Guru: "you see, the db is deleted but we still have access to the >  > data,n > 5 >>because they were in a cache. This is really good".l >> >>VMS guy: ... >>A >>Oracle Kernel said: "database corrupted, Sir, cannot continue."n >>I >>VMS guy to Oracle guru: "one can delete a file opened in update mode one >  > your >  >>system, Sir?"t >>I >>Oracle guru: "Well, you see, I'm just an Oracle specialist, not an UNIX  >  > system manager." >  >>[end]. >>K >>The VMS system manager wrote a report to his manager, who sent the reportd >  > to the > K >>IT manager, with some comments on the fact that maybe they could keep VMS  >  > foru > F >>the moment. The IT manager sent the report and the comments with his > 
 > comments toe >  >>the new CEO. >>D >>What do you think occurred? The new CEO purchased two ES40/OpenVMS >  > 7.3/Oracle 8.M > I >>Moral: "The reason of the strongest (in marketing, advertising, supporta >  > [add > B >>your favourites in here] is not always the best one" (Jean de la >  > Fontaine). > ' >>(with a special thank you to Stan R.)r >> >>D. >>--4 >>  ------------------------------------------------4 >>MORANDI Consultants  http://Didier.Morandi.Free.fr2 >>  19 chemin de la Butte, 31400 Toulouse, France.4 >>Tel.: +33 (0)6 7983 6418 - Fax: +33 (0)5 6154 19284 >>OpenVMS, APPLE, Computer Security, Migration plans4 >>-------------------------------------------------- >  >  >    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 22:38:03 GMTo1 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com> D Subject: Re: The VMS customer minute of the day: Paper Manufacturing- Message-ID: <bPsQ8.93826$nZ3.39656@rwcrnsc53>p  6 "Bart Zorn" <B.Zorn@xs4all.nospam.nl> wrote in message) news:3D124FF4.2030003@xs4all.nospam.nl...f > Hans Vlems wrote:  > > Beautiful Didier :-) >nH > OK, but what did they gain by buying Oracle 8 instead of continuing to
 > use Rdb?  K Umm, diminished performance but a popular brand name? (Except that it's nota$ so popular in California right now!)   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 19:38:27 -0400a1 From: Michael Austin <maustin@firstdbasource.com>iD Subject: Re: The VMS customer minute of the day: Paper Manufacturing1 Message-ID: <3D126773.C6F125D@firstdbasource.com>u   "Terry C. Shannon" wrote:n > 8 > "Bart Zorn" <B.Zorn@xs4all.nospam.nl> wrote in message+ > news:3D124FF4.2030003@xs4all.nospam.nl...r > > Hans Vlems wrote:c > > > Beautiful Didier :-) > >tJ > > OK, but what did they gain by buying Oracle 8 instead of continuing to > > use Rdb? > M > Umm, diminished performance but a popular brand name? (Except that it's nota& > so popular in California right now!)  6 care to elaborate for those of us on the East coast...  > ADV:  See the VMS Marketing Volunteers, Ltd. Business card at: http://www.firstdbasource.com0   -- o Regards,  6 Michael Austin            OpenVMS User since June 19847 First DBA Source, Inc.    Registered Linux User #261163o7 Sr. Consultant            http://www.firstdbasource.comsE                           http://www.firstdbasource.com/donation.htmlo/ 704-947-1089 (Office)     704-236-4377 (Mobile)i   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2002 01:10:36 GMTsL From: winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU ("Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr")D Subject: Re: The VMS customer minute of the day: Paper Manufacturing8 Message-ID: <00A0FC0E.3DB28A98@SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>  e In article <3D126773.C6F125D@firstdbasource.com>, Michael Austin <maustin@firstdbasource.com> writes:n >"Terry C. Shannon" wrote: >> r9 >> "Bart Zorn" <B.Zorn@xs4all.nospam.nl> wrote in messaged, >> news:3D124FF4.2030003@xs4all.nospam.nl... >> > Hans Vlems wrote: >> > > Beautiful Didier :-)i >> >K >> > OK, but what did they gain by buying Oracle 8 instead of continuing toA
 >> > use Rdb?' >> wN >> Umm, diminished performance but a popular brand name? (Except that it's not' >> so popular in California right now!)a >r7 >care to elaborate for those of us on the East coast...   F Somehow Oracle managed to sell (and get paid for) the California stateJ government per-user employee licenses for quite a lot more employees than J the California state government _has_.  (I forget how many more, but we're- talking millions of dollars in license fees.)   G There's a big scandal over it.  I haven't been following the story veryiI closely, despite living a few miles from the big black towers of Oracle's  galactic headquarters.   -- Alans  O ===============================================================================r0  Alan Winston --- WINSTON@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDUM  Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056 M  Physical mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 69, PO BOX 4349, STANFORD, CA  94309-0210gO ===============================================================================l   ------------------------------   Date: 21 Jun 02 07:15:02 +0200) From: p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture)oD Subject: Re: The VMS customer minute of the day: Paper Manufacturing) Message-ID: <gNS2T2zI6SR+@elias.decus.ch>o  [ In article <3D124FF4.2030003@xs4all.nospam.nl>, Bart Zorn <B.Zorn@xs4all.nospam.nl> writes:h > Hans Vlems wrote:e >> Beautiful Didier :-)  > I > OK, but what did they gain by buying Oracle 8 instead of continuing to e
 > use Rdb?  K The CEO's signature? Not as stupid as it sounds. On my first visit to a new,J customer a few years ago I noticed that each time I mentioned Rdb, the CIOM corrected me with "You mean Oracle/Rdb". This had been a True Blue shop sinceyM the early days of commercial computer use, and the guy was clearly very aware 3 of the politics involved at a high corporate level.n  N I only made the mistake twice, as it was obvious that the guy saw the "Oracle"J part as very important. I reckon it not only gave him credibility with hisL board and peers in the business community, but also gave him a stick to beat	 IBM with.s  N Our company won the contract concerned, at least in part because we understood0 the politics of working in a mixed IBM/DEC shop. >  >> e >> d; >> Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@Free.fr> wrote in messaget$ >> news:3D12088F.E2CACB41@Free.fr... >> i7 >>>[disclaimer: this is a *true* story, written my way]c >>>s >>>lH >>>I went to visit a Customer today. They have a huge plant, where trees >> c >> enter bya >>  M >>>one side and paper exits by the other. All this driven by a cluster of twol >> l >> 4100, >> eK >>>a thousand of Fortran (77) programs, Rdb and PC-driven automats. Bob was  >> s >> their >> t >>>uncle since 15 years. >>>eG >>>Then a new CEO came and said: "IT close future will be UNIX/Oracle".a >> e
 >> Period. >> lK >>>An Oracle guru came later and installed Oracle Server on a PC. He gave ae >> e
 >> demo to >> b >>>the VMS folks here. >>> ! >>>This happened during the demo:u >>>t
 >>>[start]K >>>Someone asked: "Is this real robust software compared to Rdb/VMS?" (theyg >> e >> still >> o >>>say VMS). >>>g >>>Oracle guru said: "sure". >>>c4 >>>VMS system manager asked: "may I type a command?" >>>i >>>Oracle guru: "Sure" >>>iC >>>The VMS guy deleted the Oracle demo database with a command likeu >> n >> f$trnlnm("$ >> i >>>delete oracle.db;*","unix") >>>rK >>>Oracle Guru: "you see, the db is deleted but we still have access to thet >> a >> data, >> C6 >>>because they were in a cache. This is really good". >>>  >>>VMS guy: ...t >>>nB >>>Oracle Kernel said: "database corrupted, Sir, cannot continue." >>> J >>>VMS guy to Oracle guru: "one can delete a file opened in update mode on >> s >> your  >> p >>>system, Sir?" >>>eJ >>>Oracle guru: "Well, you see, I'm just an Oracle specialist, not an UNIX >> t >> system manager."a >> r >>>[end] >>>vL >>>The VMS system manager wrote a report to his manager, who sent the report >> o	 >> to thel >> aL >>>IT manager, with some comments on the fact that maybe they could keep VMS >> n >> for >> oG >>>the moment. The IT manager sent the report and the comments with hise >>   >> comments to >> n >>>the new CEO.i >>>tE >>>What do you think occurred? The new CEO purchased two ES40/OpenVMSt >>   >> 7.3/Oracle 8. >>  J >>>Moral: "The reason of the strongest (in marketing, advertising, support >> e >> [addr >> iC >>>your favourites in here] is not always the best one" (Jean de la  >> r
 >> Fontaine).l >>  ( >>>(with a special thank you to Stan R.) >>>r >>>D.l >>>-- 5 >>>  ------------------------------------------------u5 >>>MORANDI Consultants  http://Didier.Morandi.Free.frb3 >>>  19 chemin de la Butte, 31400 Toulouse, France..5 >>>Tel.: +33 (0)6 7983 6418 - Fax: +33 (0)5 6154 1928 5 >>>OpenVMS, APPLE, Computer Security, Migration plansa5 >>>--------------------------------------------------t >> t >> . >>   >  >  -- r __
 Paul Sture Switzerlandt   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 14:37:27 -0400o2 From: Atlant Schmidt <atlantnospam@mindspring.com> Subject: Re: unix history . Message-ID: <3D1220E7.ABD14CFF@mindspring.com>   John Smith wrote:   , > Send Steve Jobs an email to get the facts.  3 Or read the source. Darwin (this aspect of MacOS/X)  is open-source.l  - Personally, I'd have high confidence that the . summary I cited (posted on the Apple Developer$ Technical Support site) is accurate.  $                               Atlant   ------------------------------    Date: 20 Jun 2002 13:46:33 -0600B From: clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP (Simon Clubley) Subject: Re: unix historyo3 Message-ID: <vE5+qy6wFWov@eisner.encompasserve.org>s  c In article <3D11CA53.FE766ACE@mindspring.com>, Atlant Schmidt <atlantnospam@mindspring.com> writes:w > Simon Clubley wrote: > I >> In that case, which version of FreeBSD do you recommend that newcomersL >> to FreeBSD start with ? > . > The MacOS/X version. (Well, I *THINK* that's
 > a FreeBSD.)M >   K My platform of interest is x86. Given Bill's comments about current FreeBSD:K packaging issues, I was interested in how many versions of FreeBSD I shouldYD go back from the current one to find one that is packaged correctly.   Simon.   --  B Simon Clubley, clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP       + Microsoft: The Lada of the computing world.    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2002 01:53:13 GMTt From: j1076366@cfl.rr.comtH Subject: US-NC Spanish Cobol VAX/VMS ACMS FMS Mailbox Programmer/Analyst6 Message-ID: <3d1286f6.52016375@news-server.cfl.rr.com>  ? US-NC Spanish Cobol VAX/VMS ACMS FMS Mailbox Programmer/Analystl   Charlotte North Carolina  D Senior Programmer/Analyst with extensive skills in Cobol, Alpha, and> DCL in a VAX, VMS environment. Prefer FMS ACMS experience. TheC environment is manufacturing. Program to program communication, dcl-@ scripting, mailbox programming. This individual should be a teamD player to be able to be productive from day one. The individual willC help support the company's ongoing initiatives for new developmentsJB and upgrades. There is a potential for full time after the initial= contract period. This position does not offer interviewing ork relocation reimbursement.o  / ! Candidate must Speak and Write in Spanish  ! p!        * Local candidates only *                * US citizen *a schiffkey@cfl.rr.com   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 22:54:05 GMT 1 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com>f) Subject: VMS Marketing Volunteers, ctd...t> Message-ID: <h2tQ8.113488$6m5.97987@rwcrnsc51.ops.asp.att.net>  D So I was wondering. What would happen if I actually formed a limitedK liability corporation (one with no assets) called VMS Marketing Volunteers,6J LLC? The thought has entered my mind, but the legal ramifications might be onerous indeed.H  I One new Volunteer has enlisted and ordered her cards already ($8.95 total,K cost for two-week shipping). This could be the start of a tsunami that will  engulf downstream marketing!   -- Terry C. Shannon Consultant and Publisher Shannon Knows HPC " PLEASE NOTE MY *NEW* EMAIL ADDRESS email: terryshannon@attbi.com 4 Web (info on SKHPC):  www.openvms.org, www.tru64.org   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2002 01:22:18 GMT,1 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com>vY Subject: Re: VMS MARKETING VOLUNTEERS, LTD. Biz Card Example ( was Re: A Proposal for All-? Message-ID: <edvQ8.114333$6m5.100397@rwcrnsc51.ops.asp.att.net>r  3 "Jay E. Morris" <jem@epsilon3.com> wrote in message % news:3D127726.9050308@epsilon3.com.... > Terry C. Shannon wrote:  > .....eA > > I have a hastily-shot 325KB JPEG of my original VMS MARKETINGy VOLUNTEERS, I > > LTD. biz card that I'd be glad to send to anyone who'd like to take a. lookD > > (a professional photographer I am not, but you'll get the idea).C > > VISTAPRINT.COM will print you up 250 of these puppies for about5
 ten-twelve# > > bucks. Money well spent, sez I.  > > ; > > Drop me a line if you'd like me to mail you the JPEG...c > >a > > charlie matcor > > terryshannon@attbi.com > G > Good lord that gave me a start.  I started out on DataPoints.  If youiJ > know DataPoint you'll know why and if you don't you probably don't care.  4 Being 50 years old, yes, I remember those artifacts!   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2002 00:47:31 GMTw( From: "Jay E. Morris" <jem@epsilon3.com>Y Subject: Re: VMS MARKETING VOLUNTEERS, LTD. Biz Card Example ( was Re: A Proposal for All,+ Message-ID: <3D127726.9050308@epsilon3.com>    Terry C. Shannon wrote:e ..... K > I have a hastily-shot 325KB JPEG of my original VMS MARKETING VOLUNTEERS, L > LTD. biz card that I'd be glad to send to anyone who'd like to take a lookB > (a professional photographer I am not, but you'll get the idea).L > VISTAPRINT.COM will print you up 250 of these puppies for about ten-twelve! > bucks. Money well spent, sez I.  > 9 > Drop me a line if you'd like me to mail you the JPEG...g >  > charlie matcoh > terryshannon@attbi.com  F Good lord that gave me a start.  I started out on DataPoints.  If you H know DataPoint you'll know why and if you don't you probably don't care. -- c
 Jay E. Morriss Epsilon 3 Productionse jem@epsilon3.comD ANYA: I found one of those 24-hour places for coffee. Remember that F bookstore? Well they became one of those books-and-coffee places, and ? now they're just coffee. It's like evolution, only without the t getting-better part. -----------.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 22:02:30 +0100-+ From: "antonio.carlini" <arcarlini@iee.org>O  Subject: Re: What is/was LESACP?& Message-ID: <3D1242E6.9040707@iee.org>  ! Steve.Spires@yellgroup.com wrote:3   > I seem to have forgotten!5 > L > It isn't in the manuals any more, but it has popped up on one of our nodesK > and I just need to know what it is and what might have caused it to starte > up again.   4 LES$ACP is the the Layered Environment Services ACP.4 It's part of PSI (X.25 on OpenVMS VAX) and also used7 by Routing (and maybe another component) in DECnet-Pluss (on both VAX and Alpha).  4 It was also used by a number of other subsystems too( (although almost certainly only on VAX).  6 The Phase V variant calls itself LES$ACP_V30. I forget3 exactly what the Phase IV variant was, but it won't 1 have been _V30 since it was based on LES V2. Moste likely it was just LESACP.  5 So either you just installed (or started) DECnet-Plusy5 on either VAX or Alpha, or you fired up PSI (on VAX). 4 The X.25 software on OpenVMS Alpha does not use LES.   Antonio    --     ---------------t- Antonio Carlini             arcarlini@iee.orgb   ------------------------------   Date: 20 Jun 02 19:35:21 MDT" From: ivie@cc.usu.edu (Roger Ivie)5 Subject: RE: What kind of morons work at the FDA now? % Message-ID: <1tie6vrIGNkv@cc.usu.edu>a   In article <92EFB80E551BD511B39500D0B7B0CDCC0642C553@ohms.electric.ci.austin.tx.us>, "Stuart, Ed" <Ed.Stuart@austinenergy.com> writes:3 > Maybe the announcement of the retirement of Alphat > was not handled correctly?  ; Heck, the _introduction_ of Alpha wasn't handled correctly.r  K I was involved with the DECstation folks at the time, and it went somethingr! like this from their perspective:e  G - DEC announces "We'll have something really cool in a couple of years"eA - Customers start delaying DECstation purchases to wait for Alphad - Sales of DECstations decline5 - Management decides no one wants DECstations anymoree - DECstations are axed  J In that case, the follow-on was announced without retirment of what it was( replacing and it was _still_ a disaster!  
 Roger Ivie ivie@cc.usu.edue   ------------------------------  + Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 21:12:52 +0000 (UTC) * From: bleau@umtof.umd.edu (Lawrence Bleau)' Subject: Why does TCPIP SHOW HOST fail?e0 Message-ID: <aetggk$68t$1@grapevine.wam.umd.edu>  D I just upgraded to TCPIP V5.1 ECO 1 on OpenVMS AXP V7.1-2.  What I'mE seeing is a problem that existed before the upgrade (we were on TCPIPuB V5.0A), and affects the way in which we set out SMTP spam filters.  C Certain IP addresses do not backtranslate properly.  What I mean isnE that, in the SMTP headers, we get unknown.hostname instead of a real,MG live host name.  One example of such an IP address is 216.183.115.59 . u! The command below gives an error:u    $ TCPIP SHOW HOST 216.183.115.59C gethostby*.getanswer: asked for "59.115.183.216.IN-ADDR.ARPA", got  # "59.28-48.115.183.216.IN-ADDR.ARPA"-( %TCPIP-W-NORECORD, information not found -RMS-E-RNF, record not found  7 However, the NSLOOKUP program gives a different result:0  # $ MCR TCPIP$NSLOOKUP 216.183.115.598 Server:  noc.net.umd.edu Address:  128.8.5.2P  ' Name:    transit31.email.interelate.net- Address:  216.183.115.59% Aliases:  59.115.183.216.in-addr.arpa-  5 Here are two other IP addresses that behave this way:: 207.172.4.60 66.35.193.84  @ Does anyone have an idea why NSLOOKUP works but SHOW HOST fails?  F More to the point, though, we'd like to implement SMTP filtering usingD the Reject-Unbacktranslatable-IP option.  We don't want to throw outB email from colleagues whose sites just happen to not backtranslateC properly.  Any idea how to get the SMTP package to use the NSLOOKUPa) method instead of the SHOW HOST behavior?   B I admit, this is probably a tough design issue, not a switch I can# flick, but I'm curious nonetheless.g  A Is anyone using  Reject-Unbacktranslatable-IP : TRUE  who has not1; experienced this problem, or who has found a way around it?c   Lawrence Bleau University of Maryland" Physics Dept., Space Physics Group 301-405-6223 bleau@umtof.umd.edua   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 16:53:27 -0500l1 From: "Dave Gudewicz" <david.gudewicz@abbott.com>0+ Subject: Re: Why does TCPIP SHOW HOST fail?c/ Message-ID: <aetivp$b$1@fizban.pprd.abbott.com>h  I A quick check on TCPIP v5.0a eco 3 and v5.3 (VMS 7.2-1 and 7.3) gave same L results with tcpip sho host and nslookup.  I'll try to find a v5.1 eco 1 andI VMS 7.1-2 node and try same.  Donno off hand if we have one of those heref or not.e -- Dave....  3 More than one cigar at a time is excessive smoking.s -----Mark Twain/  7 "Lawrence Bleau" <bleau@umtof.umd.edu> wrote in messagen* news:aetggk$68t$1@grapevine.wam.umd.edu...F > I just upgraded to TCPIP V5.1 ECO 1 on OpenVMS AXP V7.1-2.  What I'mG > seeing is a problem that existed before the upgrade (we were on TCPIP/D > V5.0A), and affects the way in which we set out SMTP spam filters. >-E > Certain IP addresses do not backtranslate properly.  What I mean is0G > that, in the SMTP headers, we get unknown.hostname instead of a real,SH > live host name.  One example of such an IP address is 216.183.115.59 .# > The command below gives an error:0 >D" > $ TCPIP SHOW HOST 216.183.115.59D > gethostby*.getanswer: asked for "59.115.183.216.IN-ADDR.ARPA", got% > "59.28-48.115.183.216.IN-ADDR.ARPA"r* > %TCPIP-W-NORECORD, information not found > -RMS-E-RNF, record not found >e9 > However, the NSLOOKUP program gives a different result:H > % > $ MCR TCPIP$NSLOOKUP 216.183.115.59- > Server:  noc.net.umd.edu > Address:  128.8.5.2  >c) > Name:    transit31.email.interelate.netb > Address:  216.183.115.59' > Aliases:  59.115.183.216.in-addr.arpax >t7 > Here are two other IP addresses that behave this way:  > 207.172.4.60 > 66.35.193.84 > B > Does anyone have an idea why NSLOOKUP works but SHOW HOST fails? >dH > More to the point, though, we'd like to implement SMTP filtering usingF > the Reject-Unbacktranslatable-IP option.  We don't want to throw outD > email from colleagues whose sites just happen to not backtranslateE > properly.  Any idea how to get the SMTP package to use the NSLOOKUPt+ > method instead of the SHOW HOST behavior?  >eD > I admit, this is probably a tough design issue, not a switch I can% > flick, but I'm curious nonetheless.= >=C > Is anyone using  Reject-Unbacktranslatable-IP : TRUE  who has notS= > experienced this problem, or who has found a way around it?f >o > Lawrence Bleau > University of Maryland$ > Physics Dept., Space Physics Group > 301-405-6223 > bleau@umtof.umd.edu=   ------------------------------    Date: 20 Jun 2002 21:15:22 -0700# From: dooleys@snowy.net.au (dooley)-+ Subject: Re: Why does TCPIP SHOW HOST fail? = Message-ID: <1ca82fc6.0206202015.6baabba8@posting.google.com>o  b bleau@umtof.umd.edu (Lawrence Bleau) wrote in message news:<aetggk$68t$1@grapevine.wam.umd.edu>...< > I just upgraded to TCPIP V5.1 ECO 1 on OpenVMS AXP V7.1-2.= Compaq TCP/IP Services for OpenVMS Alpha Version V5.1 - ECO 1-6   on a AlphaServer 2000 4/233 running OpenVMS V7.2-1  $ same software here, same result here Phil   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 14:42:26 -0400 2 From: Atlant Schmidt <atlantnospam@mindspring.com>E Subject: Re: Why porting apps to VMS isn't very helpful in most casesa. Message-ID: <3D122212.1E18F1F7@mindspring.com>   Keith Parris wrote:s  i > "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com> wrote in message news:<DTbQ8.262316$cQ3.11915@sccrnsc01>...hC > > VMS gross revenue actually amounts to no more than 10 times thet  > > aforementioned $135M figute. >nD > This sounds way too low compared with the other figures we've beenH > given.  VMS revenues certainly haven't dropped off by 2/3 since we gotH > the $4B figure.  Maybe if this figure omits the $2B figure in ServicesE > revenue alone for VMS, it could be within the realm of possibility. < > ----------------------------------------------------------< > Keith Parris | parris <at> DECUServe <dot> decus <dot> org  1 But $4B isn't the "VMS" revenue. It's the revenuea3 from all of the corporation's products and services  that *INVOLVE* VMS.>  0 If VMS were to leave HP, it wouldn't get to take2 all those revenues with it. For example, the Alpha0 hardware sales revenues would remain behind with Compaq.   2 If VMS were to leave, it would have to live or die1 purely on the profit from VMS. It'd actually be a:2 pretty interesting exercise. Personally, I'd guess3 it would amount to "Port or Die!", with the targetsl, being either high-end x86, Power4, or SPARC,3 with high-end x86 being the easiest if only because  of the "endianess" issues.   Atlant   ------------------------------    Date: 20 Jun 2002 14:19:28 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)SE Subject: Re: Why porting apps to VMS isn't very helpful in most casese3 Message-ID: <2nfYecPlUQ57@eisner.encompasserve.org>r  c In article <3D122212.1E18F1F7@mindspring.com>, Atlant Schmidt <atlantnospam@mindspring.com> writes:>  4 > If VMS were to leave, it would have to live or die3 > purely on the profit from VMS. It'd actually be as4 > pretty interesting exercise. Personally, I'd guess5 > it would amount to "Port or Die!", with the targetst. > being either high-end x86, Power4, or SPARC,5 > with high-end x86 being the easiest if only becauseg > of the "endianess" issues.  7 I thought contemporary Power processors were bi-endian.r   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2002.341 ************************