1 INFO-VAX	Fri, 21 Jun 2002	Volume 2002 : Issue 342       Contents:* Re: "Alpha is dead" - So what?  VMS lives!* Re: "Alpha is dead" - So what?  VMS lives!* Re: "Alpha is dead" - So what?  VMS lives!* Re: "Alpha is dead" - So what?  VMS lives!) RE: "Alpha is dead" - So what? VMS lives! - Re: ??== $print/error_notify=output file name - Re: ??== $print/error_notify=output file name - Re: ??== $print/error_notify=output file name  Re: A PL/I question ...  RE: A PL/I question ...  Announcing Kermit 95 2.0 Re: asm is in the index 9 Re: Call or email hp ... they will answer your questions! 4 Re: can VMS mail block e-mail from certian address'? Re: Case sensitive identifiers Re: Case sensitive identifiers Re: Case sensitive identifiers Re: Could linux become VMS?  Re: Could linux become VMS?  Re: Could linux become VMS? > Re: DCL Puzzle: Can you produce this DIRECTORY command output? DCPS and HP4100  RE: DCPS and HP4100  Defcon whitepaper & Re: DTSS$NTP_PROVIDER update available( Hackers on the war path againset Apache!, Re: Hackers on the war path againset Apache!+ Re: howto create self-extracting zip files? + Re: howto create self-extracting zip files? + Re: howto create self-extracting zip files? . Re: HP RoadShow in France these days: a report. RE: HP RoadShow in France these days: a report  LLC for VMS Marketing Volunteers$ Re: LLC for VMS Marketing Volunteers, Re: My conversation with Linus about VMS ... Re: Open Letter to HP 3 Re: Reuters test - Itanium II blows away Sparky III 3 Re: Reuters test - Itanium II blows away Sparky III 3 Re: Reuters test - Itanium II blows away Sparky III 3 Re: Reuters test - Itanium II blows away Sparky III 3 Re: Reuters test - Itanium II blows away Sparky III " Re: rooted devices and /TRANS=CONC" Re: rooted devices and /TRANS=CONC! Re: Sun/Slowaris future in doubt! ! Re: Sun/Slowaris future in doubt! ! Re: Sun/Slowaris future in doubt! ! Re: Sun/Slowaris future in doubt! ; Re: The VMS customer minute of the day: Paper Manufacturing ; Re: The VMS customer minute of the day: Paper Manufacturing ; Re: The VMS customer minute of the day: Paper Manufacturing  Re: unix history Re: unix history< RE: US-NC Spanish Cobol VAX/VMS ACMS FMS Mailbox Programmer/< RE: US-NC Spanish Cobol VAX/VMS ACMS FMS Mailbox Programmer/C Re: US-NC Spanish Cobol VAX/VMS ACMS FMS Mailbox Programmer/Analyst C Re: US-NC Spanish Cobol VAX/VMS ACMS FMS Mailbox Programmer/Analyst C Re: US-NC Spanish Cobol VAX/VMS ACMS FMS Mailbox Programmer/Analyst C Re: US-NC Spanish Cobol VAX/VMS ACMS FMS Mailbox Programmer/Analyst C Re: US-NC Spanish Cobol VAX/VMS ACMS FMS Mailbox Programmer/Analyst + Using old Bookreader files with Windows BNU / RE: Using old Bookreader files with Windows BNU / RE: Using old Bookreader files with Windows BNU $ Re: VMS Marketing Volunteers, ctd...$ Re: VMS Marketing Volunteers, ctd...$ Re: VMS Marketing Volunteers, ctd...$ Re: VMS Marketing Volunteers, ctd...$ Re: VMS Marketing Volunteers, ctd...$ RE: VMS Marketing Volunteers, ctd...< RE: VMS MARKETING VOLUNTEERS, LTD. Biz Card Example ( was Re< Re: VMS MARKETING VOLUNTEERS, LTD. Biz Card Example ( was ReH Re: VMS MARKETING VOLUNTEERS, LTD. Biz Card Example ( was Re: A ProposalH Re: VMS MARKETING VOLUNTEERS, LTD. Biz Card Example ( was Re: A ProposalH Re: VMS MARKETING VOLUNTEERS, LTD. Biz Card Example ( was Re: A ProposalH Re: VMS MARKETING VOLUNTEERS, LTD. Biz Card Example ( was Re: A ProposalH Re: VMS MARKETING VOLUNTEERS, LTD. Biz Card Example ( was Re: A ProposalH Re: VMS MARKETING VOLUNTEERS, LTD. Biz Card Example ( was Re: A ProposalH Re: VMS MARKETING VOLUNTEERS, LTD. Biz Card Example ( was Re: A ProposalH Re: VMS MARKETING VOLUNTEERS, LTD. Biz Card Example ( was Re: A ProposalP Re: VMS MARKETING VOLUNTEERS, LTD. Biz Card Example ( was Re: A Proposal  for AlP Re: VMS MARKETING VOLUNTEERS, LTD. Biz Card Example ( was Re: A Proposal  for AlP Re: VMS MARKETING VOLUNTEERS, LTD. Biz Card Example ( was Re: A Proposal  for AlP Re: VMS MARKETING VOLUNTEERS, LTD. Biz Card Example ( was Re: A Proposal  for AlP Re: VMS MARKETING VOLUNTEERS, LTD. Biz Card Example ( was Re: A Proposal  for AlP Re: VMS MARKETING VOLUNTEERS, LTD. Biz Card Example ( was Re: A Proposal  for AlP Re: VMS MARKETING VOLUNTEERS, LTD. Biz Card Example ( was Re: A Proposal  for AlP Re: VMS MARKETING VOLUNTEERS, LTD. Biz Card Example ( was Re: A Proposal  for AlP Re: VMS MARKETING VOLUNTEERS, LTD. Biz Card Example ( was Re: A Proposal  for AlP Re: VMS MARKETING VOLUNTEERS, LTD. Biz Card Example ( was Re: A Proposal  for AlP Re: VMS MARKETING VOLUNTEERS, LTD. Biz Card Example ( was Re: A Proposal  for Al, RE: What kind of morons work at the FDA now?, Re: What kind of morons work at the FDA now?, Re: What kind of morons work at the FDA now?" Re: Why does TCPIP SHOW HOST fail?" Re: Why does TCPIP SHOW HOST fail?< Re: Why porting apps to VMS isn't very helpful in most cases< Re: Why porting apps to VMS isn't very helpful in most cases Re: XFC Status?? Re: XFC Status??# Yet another PL/I <-> C question :-) ' Re: Yet another PL/I <-> C question :-) ' RE: Yet another PL/I <-> C question :-) ' RE: Yet another PL/I <-> C question :-) 1 [OT] Register - HP to roll Tru64 tools into HP-UX " Re: [OT] Why Software is So Bad...  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2002 11:53:12 +0200 - From: Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@Free.fr> 3 Subject: Re: "Alpha is dead" - So what?  VMS lives! ' Message-ID: <3D12F787.A9BA4644@Free.fr>    Course it does.  Why?= Because the User cares about VMS, not about what is "behind". I And we all here have a Customer Satisfaction oriented spirit, haven't we?    D.   Bob Ceculski wrote:  > > > All I keep hearing from many in this group is that "Alpha is< > dead, Alpha is dead" ... I wonder if these people have one; > too many parrots around the house ... the bottom line is, @ > WHO CARES!  VMS LIVES!  If VMS is being ported to the itanium,= > which according to Terry's Inquirer article today is making = > performance gains on Sun and others, and it works well, who 9 > cares about Alpha?  IBM made a platform change with the > > System 3X line to AS400/OS400, and most people ran in system? > 3X mode even though that killed processor performance by 50%, B > and nobody said a thing.  What we care about is VMS being ported@ > to a viable, supported platform like an Intel one, and that isA > happening, and we can all still run VMS for many years to come, @ > so who in the heck cares if Alpha is eol'd after EV79, because8 > we can still run VMS!  Does this make sense to anyone?   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2002 08:09:13 -0400 # From: "Island" <sales@islandco.com> 3 Subject: Re: "Alpha is dead" - So what?  VMS lives! / Message-ID: <uh656hppr10054@news.supernews.com>   K Does that mean that Charon Vax, if licensing was cheaper, would be a viable # option for home and business use ??   E After all, PC's are so dmaned cheap that people running alpha/vax for H process control or non cpu intensigve apps could definitely benefit from this cheap alternative   I In fact, I remember someone calling me from Switzerland a few months back 2 saying they were about to score a deal with Compaq    Anyone have any inputs on that ?   David T    -- David B Turner	 Sales Dpt  Island Computers US Corporation  2700 Gregory Street 	 Suite 180  Savannah GA 31404  Tel: 912 447 6622  Fax: 912 201 0096  sales@islandco.com www.islandco.com' http://www.islandco.com/legal-email.htm    We sell Alpha's ! * All emails are checked for Virus and Worms: "Didier Morandi" <Didier.Morandi@Free.fr> wrote in message! news:3D12F787.A9BA4644@Free.fr...  > Course it does.  > Why?? > Because the User cares about VMS, not about what is "behind". K > And we all here have a Customer Satisfaction oriented spirit, haven't we?  >  > D. >  > Bob Ceculski wrote:  > > @ > > All I keep hearing from many in this group is that "Alpha is> > > dead, Alpha is dead" ... I wonder if these people have one= > > too many parrots around the house ... the bottom line is, B > > WHO CARES!  VMS LIVES!  If VMS is being ported to the itanium,? > > which according to Terry's Inquirer article today is making ? > > performance gains on Sun and others, and it works well, who ; > > cares about Alpha?  IBM made a platform change with the @ > > System 3X line to AS400/OS400, and most people ran in systemA > > 3X mode even though that killed processor performance by 50%, D > > and nobody said a thing.  What we care about is VMS being portedB > > to a viable, supported platform like an Intel one, and that isC > > happening, and we can all still run VMS for many years to come, B > > so who in the heck cares if Alpha is eol'd after EV79, because: > > we can still run VMS!  Does this make sense to anyone?   ------------------------------    Date: 21 Jun 2002 07:28:35 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) 3 Subject: Re: "Alpha is dead" - So what?  VMS lives! 3 Message-ID: <xoRdO0bKPZ0K@eisner.encompasserve.org>   U In article <uh656hppr10054@news.supernews.com>, "Island" <sales@islandco.com> writes: M > Does that mean that Charon Vax, if licensing was cheaper, would be a viable % > option for home and business use ??   F It is hard to tell, since nobody will state the cost of Charon VAX for the record.    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2002 15:01:45 GMT 1 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com> 3 Subject: Re: "Alpha is dead" - So what?  VMS lives! ? Message-ID: <tdHQ8.123909$6m5.107683@rwcrnsc51.ops.asp.att.net>   . "Island" <sales@islandco.com> wrote in message) news:uh656hppr10054@news.supernews.com... F > Does that mean that Charon Vax, if licensing was cheaper, would be a viable% > option for home and business use ??  > G > After all, PC's are so dmaned cheap that people running alpha/vax for J > process control or non cpu intensigve apps could definitely benefit from > this > cheap alternative  > K > In fact, I remember someone calling me from Switzerland a few months back 4 > saying they were about to score a deal with Compaq > " > Anyone have any inputs on that ?  L It has been public knowledge for some time that the Charon-VAX folks will beK doing the Alpha to IPF translator for VMS. Unsure what other irons they may  have in the fire.    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2002 09:35:28 -0400 * From: WILLIAM WEBB <WWEBB1@email.usps.gov>2 Subject: RE: "Alpha is dead" - So what? VMS lives!- Message-ID: <0033000069043018000002L082*@MHS>   . =0AIMHO, the important thing is to convince HP- that VMS can be successfully [and profitably] . marketed outside of the niches to which it has been unjustly confined;   2 One place I'd start is with an entry-level turnkey. webserver package- I'd "hook" the marketing on   1) immunity to viruses,  2) security, 3) reliability-   0 as from the PHBs and Armani-clad lizards' views,5 these are RedmondWare's most visible Achilles' heels.   7 (the first four letters in the word "analyst" are there   for a reason)   WWWebb   -----Original Message-----/ From: Info-VAX-Request@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNET # Sent: Friday, June 21, 2002 5:53 AM B To: Webb, William W Raleigh, NC; Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNET2 Subject: RE: "Alpha is dead" - So what? VMS lives!     Course it does.  Why?= Because the User cares about VMS, not about what is "behind". H And we all here have a Customer Satisfaction oriented spirit, haven't w= e?   D.   Bob Ceculski wrote:  > > > All I keep hearing from many in this group is that "Alpha is< > dead, Alpha is dead" ... I wonder if these people have one; > too many parrots around the house ... the bottom line is, @ > WHO CARES!  VMS LIVES!  If VMS is being ported to the itanium,= > which according to Terry's Inquirer article today is making = > performance gains on Sun and others, and it works well, who 9 > cares about Alpha?  IBM made a platform change with the > > System 3X line to AS400/OS400, and most people ran in system? > 3X mode even though that killed processor performance by 50%, B > and nobody said a thing.  What we care about is VMS being ported@ > to a viable, supported platform like an Intel one, and that isA > happening, and we can all still run VMS for many years to come, @ > so who in the heck cares if Alpha is eol'd after EV79, because9 > we can still run VMS!  Does this make sense to anyone?=    ------------------------------    Date: 21 Jun 2002 07:40:26 -07004 From: bbaxter@denvernewspaperagency.com (Bob Baxter)6 Subject: Re: ??== $print/error_notify=output file name= Message-ID: <477fb6c5.0206210640.2c13ea74@posting.google.com>   } "Aus, Hans Magnus" <aus@vim.uni-wuerzburg.de> wrote in message news:<aus-E25C9D.06400321062002@wrzx08.rz.uni-wuerzburg.de>... K > Is there an easy way to redirect printer error messages to a file? These  K > error messages appear on the users screen but the user doesn't bother to   > notify us. > F > Something like "$print/error_notify=output file name" would be nice.  - If you are at 7.1 or above, try using a pipe:   * pipe print fffff /queue=qqqqq > output.msg  A This will write both errors and normal completion messages to the  user's screen and the file   ------------------------------    Date: 21 Jun 2002 09:26:58 -0700. From: SPAMSINK2001@YAHOO.COM (Alan E. Feldman)6 Subject: Re: ??== $print/error_notify=output file name= Message-ID: <343f30ae.0206210826.6e55b822@posting.google.com>   } "Aus, Hans Magnus" <aus@vim.uni-wuerzburg.de> wrote in message news:<aus-E25C9D.06400321062002@wrzx08.rz.uni-wuerzburg.de>... K > Is there an easy way to redirect printer error messages to a file? These  K > error messages appear on the users screen but the user doesn't bother to   > notify us. > F > Something like "$print/error_notify=output file name" would be nice.     You might want to check out   /     $ SET QUEUE /RETAIN=ERROR print-queue-name!   C This will retain in the print queue all print jobs that end with an  error. You can then do  8     $ SHOW QUEUE /ALL print-queue-name /OUTPUT=file-spec  C and you'll have the errors in a file after which you can delete the  retained jobs.     Disclaimer: JMHO Alan E. Feldman  afeldman gfigroup com    ------------------------------    Date: 21 Jun 2002 09:28:07 -0700. From: SPAMSINK2001@YAHOO.COM (Alan E. Feldman)6 Subject: Re: ??== $print/error_notify=output file name= Message-ID: <343f30ae.0206210828.4275dc02@posting.google.com>   } "Aus, Hans Magnus" <aus@vim.uni-wuerzburg.de> wrote in message news:<aus-E25C9D.06400321062002@wrzx08.rz.uni-wuerzburg.de>... K > Is there an easy way to redirect printer error messages to a file? These  K > error messages appear on the users screen but the user doesn't bother to   > notify us. > F > Something like "$print/error_notify=output file name" would be nice.     You might want to check out   /     $ SET QUEUE /RETAIN=ERROR print-queue-name!   C This will retain in the print queue all print jobs that end with an  error. You can then do  E     $ SHOW QUEUE /ALL print-queue-name /BY=RETAINED /OUTPUT=file-spec   C and you'll have the errors in a file after which you can delete the  retained jobs.     Disclaimer: JMHO Alan E. Feldman  afeldman gfigroup com    ------------------------------    Date: 21 Jun 2002 05:55:53 -0700, From: bubbapig@hotmail.com (Jeffrey Cameron)  Subject: Re: A PL/I question ...= Message-ID: <b22333b7.0206210455.3345de59@posting.google.com>    LOL ...   : I think I noticed that Tom is a bit of a PL/I advocate! :)  D I am not the biggest fan of PL/I (born and raised on C) and find the? programs unreadable at the best of times (being able to specify ? members of structure without the qualifying name makes for poor @ readability!)  but I can see its usefulness ... unfortunately myE project is to re-write certain parts of a much larger PL/I program in E C so i'm stuck asking all these crazy questions! But thanks a lot for 8 all your helpful advice and such it has been a big help!  h Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) wrote in message news:<PrL1vQCevsOI@eisner.encompasserve.org>...a > In article <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIOEHEFDAA.tom@kednos.com>, "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> writes: B > > Another suggestion, why not use SDL, this is precisely what it > > was invented for.  > I > And Tom is _much_ too shy to mention it, but SDL is written in PL/I :-)e   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2002 07:36:21 -0700w# From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com>   Subject: RE: A PL/I question ...9 Message-ID: <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIAELCFDAA.tom@kednos.com>w  > Structure members need only be qualified if they are ambiguous   >-----Original Message-----t4 >From: Jeffrey Cameron [mailto:bubbapig@hotmail.com]$ >Sent: Friday, June 21, 2002 5:56 AM >To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com! >Subject: Re: A PL/I question ...  >  >e >LOL ... >o; >I think I noticed that Tom is a bit of a PL/I advocate! :)  >lE >I am not the biggest fan of PL/I (born and raised on C) and find thee@ >programs unreadable at the best of times (being able to specify@ >members of structure without the qualifying name makes for poorA >readability!)  but I can see its usefulness ... unfortunately mycF >project is to re-write certain parts of a much larger PL/I program inF >C so i'm stuck asking all these crazy questions! But thanks a lot for9 >all your helpful advice and such it has been a big help!  > : >Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) wrote in message 0 >news:<PrL1vQCevsOI@eisner.encompasserve.org>...B >> In article <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIOEHEFDAA.tom@kednos.com>, "Tom ! >Linden" <tom@kednos.com> writes: C >> > Another suggestion, why not use SDL, this is precisely what itk >> > was invented for. >> eJ >> And Tom is _much_ too shy to mention it, but SDL is written in PL/I :-) >a >---' >Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.t; >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).i@ >Version: 6.0.370 / Virus Database: 205 - Release Date: 6/5/2002 >y ---k& Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.: Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).? Version: 6.0.370 / Virus Database: 205 - Release Date: 6/5/2002t   ------------------------------    Date: 21 Jun 2002 12:51:27 -0400& From: fdc@columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz)! Subject: Announcing Kermit 95 2.0e1 Message-ID: <aevlif$omh$1@watsol.cc.columbia.edu>n  D This is to announce Kermit 95 2.0: network and serial communications  for Windows 95/98/ME/NT/2000/XP:  )   http://www.columbia.edu/kermit/k95.htmls  
 Featuring:  H  . 40 different terminal emulations, including VT320, 220, 102, 100, 52;K  . Consistent operation on TCP/IP, LAT, serial-port, and modem connections;/3  . SSH v1/v2 terminal sessions and port forwarding;i1  . Kerberos 4/5, SSL/TLS (PKI), and SRP security;AF  . Secure as well as clear-text Telnet, Rlogin, FTP, and HTTP clients;<  . URL hot spots in the Terminal session -- click and visit;H  . Kermit and XYZMODEM protocols for in-session file transfer, includingL    with Kermit programs on VMS, Tru64, RSX, RSTS, RT11, TOPS-xx, P/OS, OS/8,    and other DEC platforms. J  . Extensive automation capabilities through its built-in script language,H    which is compatible with that of C-Kermit on VMS, Tru64, Ultrix, and ?    other DEC/Compaq/HP platforms (and many other non-DEC ones);kC  . Conversion among many character sets -- corporate, national, and $    international, including Unicode;>  . RFC 2217 Telnet Com Port Control for dialing remote modems;&  . Numeric and alpha (TAP/IXO) paging.  C Version 2.0 of K95 is the first version to run in a GUI window, andeI therefore allows font selection, Unicode terminal sessions, resizing with D the mouse, and so on.  See the website for sample screens, including% terminal screens with many languages:T  +   http://www.columbia.edu/kermit/k95gui.html  > K95 2.0 compares as follows with other well-known SSH clients:  3   http://www.columbia.edu/kermit/winsshclients.htmlx  - Kermit 95 is appropriate for people who need:U  @  . Its particular terminal emulations (DEC, HP, Wyse, SCO, ...),?    especially for demanding VMS applications like EVE, EDT, etc <    (this new version supports VT double-high/wide characters:    and true underlining and earns a perfect vttest score);  $  . A high degree of customizability;  7  . High-performing in-band and/or secure file transfer;   ?  . Key maps and procedures that are consistent across Com-port, >    modem, SSH, Telnet, Rlogin, and other kinds of connections.  E  . The ability to write automated communications procedures, possibly D    involving file transfer, especially when they need to be portableI    across communication methods, protocols, and/or OS/hardware platforms;   @  . Character-set conversion across the communication connection;     . Responsive technical support.   And for:  C  . Universities and government agencies that require secure clientsTH    (government discounts and low-cost academic site licenses available);  A  . Systems integrators and consultants who wish to provide canned 0    communications procedures to their customers;  @  . Insurance claims clearinghouses that need a reliable tool for?    their clients to submit claims over a variety of transports.s  =  . Secure website maintenance from offsite (via authenticatede    FTP or HTTP).  I  . A variety of network management functions, including automated dialogs>I    with routers, hubs, and terminal servers, as well as automated testing .    of modem pools and paging of network staff.  I The built-in FTP client, aside from allowing secure connections and being-H fully scriptable, includes a horde of features lacking from most others:  /   http://www.columbia.edu/kermit/ftpclient.html<  I In Windows NT, 2000, and XP, K95 2.0 can be installed as an RFC-2839/2840 I service on your PC allowing secure, authenticated remote text-mode accesssD on the Internet for file transfer and management.  For details, see:  +   http://www.columbia.edu/kermit/wiksd.htmlt  K As an SFTP replacement, the Kermit 95 client and C-Kermit server (installedyI as an SSH subsystem) give the same security and performance as SFTP/SFTPDe/ but a great deal more flexibility and features:   -   http://www.columbia.edu/kermit/skermit.html   H Kermit 95 is a product of the Kermit Project at Columbia University, oneE of the few remaining university-based nonprofit software R&D projectsrC (going strong 21 years and counting!), whose work includes not just H writing software but also active participation in the standards process:  /   http://www.columbia.edu/kermit/standards.html   G To try K95 2.0, simply download a full-featured 21-day trial version by H following the DOWNLOAD link on the website.  Pricing and licensing terms	 are here:p  0   http://www.columbia.edu/kermit/k95pricing.html  / Send business inquiries to kermit@columbia.edu.l8 Send technical questions to kermit-support@columbia.edu.  
 Frank da Cruzy The Kermit Project Columbia University  612 West 115th Street0 New York NY  10025-7799l USA< http://www.columbia.edu/kermit/:   ------------------------------    Date: 21 Jun 2002 00:16:15 -0700# From: dooleys@snowy.net.au (dooley)n  Subject: Re: asm is in the index= Message-ID: <1ca82fc6.0206202316.7ac49811@posting.google.com>?   "Craig A. Berry" <craig.berry@nospam.SignalTreeSolutions.com> wrote in message news:<craig.berry-37A81B.15584820062002@news.directvinternet.com>... 4 > In article <SD0Q8.18$kT1.411773@news.cpqcorp.net>,0 >  "Kenneth Block" <krblock@computer.org> wrote: > M > > The problem is not the index, because ASM is in the index, the problem ist( > > that it says that it is unsupported. > > U > > http://www.openvms.compaq.com/commercial/cplus/alpha_doc/ugvimpl.html#index_x_240  > > ' > > Click on ASM directive and it says:@ > > 2.2.13 asm DeclarationsmC > > In the compiler, asm declarations produce a compile-time error.  > E > This index entry is new in the docs that ship with 6.5 and was not eD > present in the 6.2 docs.  The addition is technically correct but H > unhelpful because it mentions nothing about #pragma intrinsic (asm).  I > So, someone looking up "asm" in the index finds only a pointer to what a > does *not* work * Isn't that appropriate behaviour for c++ ?   ------------------------------    Date: 21 Jun 2002 01:56:27 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>B Subject: Re: Call or email hp ... they will answer your questions!0 Message-ID: <87n0tpkf5g.fsf@k9.prep.synonet.com>  3 "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com> writes:i  = > Having lost a year of Alpha development, not to mention thehB > developers themselves, what is the liklihood that HPQ could pull" > this off if they chose to do so?  A And they would have to also do a PA9000 or the HPUX side would ben? after them with an axe.  It would be a very good idea, but alasy it just won't happen...a   -- t< Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda. @                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------  , Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2002 11:51:33 +0200 (CEST): From: "Gotfryd Smolik, VMS lists" <gotfryd@stanpol.com.pl>= Subject: Re: can VMS mail block e-mail from certian address'? I Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0206211147340.1303-100000@irys.stanpol.com.pl>o  7 On Wed, 19 Jun 2002 david20@alpha1.axp.mdx.ac.uk wrote:i [...]c; >+VMS MAIL itself cannot block mail from a particular user.e  8  To be precise - what you say is untrue with the meaning# "a user within the local system" :)-:  MAIL (thru MAILSHR) user shared protected code (MAILSHPR)= where uses SYSPRV - and you *can* using ACL's block a "local"u user :)::  Sure, the spam *almost* for sure comes from remote host !    Regards - Gotfryd   -- oE =====================================================================sF $ ON F$ERROR("LANGUAGE","ENGLISH","IN_MESSAGE").GT.F$ERROR("NORMAL") - 		THEN EXCUSE/OBJECT=MEr. $!                        GS@stanpol.zabrze.plE =====================================================================n   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2002 17:43:28 +0200n' From: Brass Christof <welcome@spam.not>n' Subject: Re: Case sensitive identifiers ( Message-ID: <3D1349A0.81BD87FB@spam.not>   Frank Sapienza wrote:a > @ > Here's the original comment you made, to which I was replying: > @ > "Bill Gunshannon" <bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu> wrote in message( > news:aesvar$1lfi$1@info.cs.uofs.edu... > >>>|> 8 > >>>|> OTOH, case-sensitive file-naming is a Unix crock > >>>-K > >>>Matter of opinion.  Not only do I like it, but I make very good use ofIN > >>>the ability.  As do many others I know.  People here compared the commandN > >>>structure to natural language and called the Unix commands flawed becauseI > >>>they were not full words.  I don;t know about you, but I don't use aa > mono-tL > >>>case natural language so it seems the same logic should dictate that my% > >>>filenames be mixed-case as well.e > L > As I understood it, you believe that Unix' use of case-sensitive filenamesM > parallels your non-mono-case natural language.  I'm trying to show you thats > it isn't the same thing. > F > You agree, I think, that the same word in English (and other naturalM > languages) means the same thing whether it's written out in upper-, lower-,RN > or mixed-case letters.  I also think you agree that we derive the meaning ofN > words based on their context, not the style of the letters used to represent > them in written form.i  E There are natural languages that write words differently according tob their B grammatical function and this cases they have a different meaning.  M > If we extend that to the command-line interface of an operating system, anyf< > operating system, then it follows that in order to be moreK > "natural-language-like" the interface should a) not differentiate between I > two words that are spelled the same but represented by different lettertN > case, and b) refer to the same thing/concept when a word is used in the same7 > context even if presented in a different letter case.  > % > So, let's compare Unix commands ...f > ls mymixedcasefile.dat > ls MyMixedCaseFile.dat >  > with VMS commands ...t > dir mymixedcasefile.dath > dir MyMixedCaseFile.data > K > As typed, the above are valid commands in Unix and VMS, respectively.  In M > the Unix examples, the two commands would refer to two different files evenaN > though a) the name is the same except for letter case, and b) the context inF > which the filename appears is the same in both commands.  In the VMS; > examples, the two commands always refer to the same file.   G I agree that command names should be not even case-insensitive but also  not D mixed-case. Names of files should be case-sensitive from my point of view.4  8 Please see my reply to Craig A. Barry a few minutes ago.  M > Based on that alone, and putting aside the question of whether ls or dir is68 > a better "word", which command-line "language" is more > "natural-language-like"? >  > Your most recent comments:$ > > Trying to put this back on topic > A > I don't think we ever left the topic by any significant margin." > % > > nothing in Unix forces the use of G > > mixed-case for things like filenames.  They can all be in one case.f > F > Only partially correct.  As the first user to name a file, or as theN > developer naming a command, I get to choose whether I create something usingM > lower-, upper-, or mixed-case letters and am not forced by Unix into eitherEN > choice.  However, anybody that comes after me and wants to use the same fileK > or command is, in fact, forced by Unix to use the same letter case that I@ > initially selected.r  E This is a good point: designers should be more careful. If file names> got , the wrong case they could renamed after all.  F > > So, if it is un-natural and 99.9% of the world knows this then wny8 > > don't users, particularly new users, stop doing it?? > H > Why don't you tell us?  When you were a new Unix user, why did you useJ > mixed-case file names instead of all the same case.  Or, did you not useN > mixed-case until after you had developed some experience with Unix?  I wouldJ > wager that most new Unix users actually use lower-case most of the time,H > when they have the choice, because all the commands I can remember areN > required to be typed in lower case as well.  I'd also bet that most new UnixK > users curse the first few times they forget to disable Caps Lock and typeM< > LS  instead of  ls  and then mumble, "why does it matter?"   :-)n  G > I'd doubt that the reason you started using mixed-case file names wasoH > because you thought it more closely resembled a natural language.  YouK > probably started using mixed-case file names because you either a) had toeL > refer to an existing file that was created using mixed-case letters, or b)N > thought that  myInvoiceFile.dat  was easier to read than  myinvoicefile.dat.L > Would you even care if Unix stored the file name in all upper-case as longE > as it allowed you to refer to it in mixed-case (and displayed it in- > mixed-case on an ls listing)?i  A While I don't see how UNIX would accomplish storing the names alle
 uppercase H but displaying them in mixed case I think that accessing case-sensitive E file systems, databases and context should be solved generally. Whilen the E default for those accesses in UNIX is case-sensitivity which is wrong- from -8 my point of view VMS got that right again as SEARCH uses case-insensitive a matching as default.  M > Last question: How many times have you forgotten how a mixed-case file nameoH > was formatted and had to do ls * to remind yourself of how it had been# > named?  Don't you hate that?  :-)g   -- n? According to the Quality Assurance Institute C/C++/ObjC, PERL,  @ UNIX (incl. Linux) and Windows/XY are regarded as harmful. Java 0 is slow and the class library is badly designed.7 moc dot slupofni at ssarb - please reverse the sequence    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2002 17:49:36 +0200 ' From: Brass Christof <welcome@spam.not>s' Subject: Re: Case sensitive identifiersl( Message-ID: <3D134B10.7362558D@spam.not>   Bill Todd wrote: > 6 > "Brass Christof" <welcome@spam.not> wrote in message$ > news:3D1194EF.1802F085@spam.not... >  > ...J > 8 > > There are natural languages that are case sensitive. > >c8 > > IOW there is a difference between "Kraft" (noun) and= > > "kraft" (preposition). While I agree that it is a pain tos? > > access database records with mixed case I always thought it A > > should be the responsibility of the users to stick to certain0 > > conventions. > D > Why someone would think that, when in the overwhelming majority ofL > situations case is not significant to a look-up, is not clear to me (or toI > the rest of the world that considers case-sensitivity in naming to be af > crock 99.99% of the time).  ; Plese read my response to Frank Sapienza a few minutes ago A< where I explain why I think that case-sensitivity should be 3 accompagnied with case-insenstive matching methods.    > ...c > ? > > Even Oracle offers the possibility to create case sensitive)! > > table names and column names.e > L > Such names are seldom directly manipulated by naive (or even not-so-naive)I > end-users.  It's less obnoxious to be case-sensitive in such situations.L > (which include your progamming-language example as well), though even then7 > it's not clear that case-sensitivity is *preferable*.e  C Please read my response to Craig A. Berry on the general matter of b case-sensitivity.   # >  Therefore I'm not sure enforcingeC > > case insensitivity even in an English only enviroment is a good.B > > ide. Aren't there case like McIntosh or O'Riley that need some > > distinction in case? > H > As has been pointed out already, mixed-case *support* does not requireF > case-*sensitivity*.  The examples you provide do not require look-upL > case-sensitivity to distinguish them any more than, e.g., 'put' (to place)M > and 'put' (a stock-trading term) do:  a user can make the distinction if iti > is in fact relevant.  H This is not enough for Java where you rather soon end up having classes F named Windows and windows which might require distinct files to store  the Java Byte Codes.    8 > > There are computer languages that are case sensitiv. > >-? > > It could be discussed whether this has been a wise decisionuA > > in the first place (and the arguments would be rather similara1 > > to the above), but we have to live with them.a > I > No, we do not:  we can instead choose to use systems that act sensibly.NJ > Unfortunately, since crocks are not that rare in the world, sometimes we< > must choose to use systems which merely have the fewest or > least-objectionable ones.t  E While I basically agree with the idea of your argument I disagree in rD the concrete case because some of the best P.L.s use case-sensitive E identifiers and require case-sensitive file systems (or they have to ,( work around as on VMS, Mac and Windows).   What is your favourite P.L.?   --  ? According to the Quality Assurance Institute C/C++/ObjC, PERL, c@ UNIX (incl. Linux) and Windows/XY are regarded as harmful. Java 0 is slow and the class library is badly designed.7 moc dot slupofni at ssarb - please reverse the sequence    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2002 18:07:16 +02004' From: Brass Christof <welcome@spam.not>a' Subject: Re: Case sensitive identifiers.' Message-ID: <3D134F34.77333A8@spam.not>c   Frank Sapienza wrote:  > 6 > "Brass Christof" <welcome@spam.not> wrote in message$ > news:3D1194EF.1802F085@spam.not...8 > > IOW there is a difference between "Kraft" (noun) and > > "kraft" (preposition). > >n > G > Well, without knowing which natural-language you're referring to, andsM > therefore with no basis to argue against your statement, I'll accept it and, > stand corrected. > J > However, are you sure you're not referring to context-sensitivity rather > than case-sensitivity?  < Yup, context-sensitivity is something completely different. = In the cases I'm talking of case reduces context-sensitivity.p  H > Brass, in the natural-language you refer to, what is the difference inI > pronunciation between "Kraft", and "kraft"?  If there is none, then how I > would the speaker express to any listener which form of the word he/shen: > intended to use?  (Absent context-sensitivity, that is.)  F There is no difference in pronunciation. But there is a difference in I written and spoken language and as long as we are using written language tI to communicate with other people and machines we should not restrict the e# possibilities to express ourselves.t  F Please see my post a few minutes ago as a reply to Craig A. Berry for  further details.   --  ? According to the Quality Assurance Institute C/C++/ObjC, PERL, f@ UNIX (incl. Linux) and Windows/XY are regarded as harmful. Java 0 is slow and the class library is badly designed.7 moc dot slupofni at ssarb - please reverse the sequenceq   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2002 08:50:59 -0500iC From: "Craig A. Berry" <craig.berry@nospam.SignalTreeSolutions.com> $ Subject: Re: Could linux become VMS?H Message-ID: <craig.berry-03C8F5.08505921062002@news.directvinternet.com>  , In article <aeqp10017tl@enews2.newsguy.com>,.  "Frank Sapienza" <sapienza@noesys.com> wrote:  @ > "Bill Gunshannon" <bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu> wrote in message' > news:aeps6e$5pt$1@info.cs.uofs.edu...a3 > > I don;t know about you, but I don't use a mono-t > > case natural languagea  F > All natural languages are mono-case.  Just because we may format ourK > sentences using upper- and lower-case letters for appearance doesn't makei > the language case-sensitive.  F Indeed.  Writing systems are a relatively late enhancement to natural G languages, and the use of case is a relatively late and inconsistently 0E applied enhancement to writing systems.  For example, up through the uE 18th century, printed English capitalized all nouns, not just proper aE nouns as is the current convention, and different languages had/have e differing practices.    @ Though the details vary, the basic principle is that mixed case G requires more effort to create and less effort to read.  This is not a /B principle cooked up recently in a focus group; it's the result of G thousands of years of experimentation.  Ancient western languages were e> written in all upper case with no spaces between words and no H punctuation.  This is the easiest possible way to write and the hardest @ possible way to read.  In one sense it's rather UNIX-like since H everything is just a stream of characters with divisions to be supplied D on-the-fly at the time of interpretation, but in another sense it's G completely un-UNIX-like because the entire notion of case is, shall we wF say, "not yet implemented."  In any event things have obviously moved C into a compromise position between writing convenience and reading u convenience.  F Where this enters into the fray for command languages and filesystems H is that the effort that I'm willing to make for a *person* to read what F I'm writing (such as when I put asterisks around the word "person" to D indicate emphasis) is much greater than the effort I should have to G make for a machine.  For a command language to make case distinctions, aH at least in the verbs of the language, is just silly; that's asking the D human being to do more work to make things easier for the machine.  G Filenames are a special kind of noun in a command language, and having QH to specify case when selecting files is also requiring more effort of a F person for no particular reason. But when *displaying* files from the D filesystem, the failure to display mixed case is another example of @ saving effort for the machine at the expense of a person.  Case C preserving but case insensitive is the only way to go when using a @H machine with a command-line interface.  It's a bit galling that DOS, of D all things, got there before VMS, and it's a bit annoying that most D UNIX variants are moving slowly, if at all, in this direction.  The H general trend, however, is inevitable, and using case as a special kind = of inflection will fall by the wayside as other such special "< inflections have been steadily doing for thousands of years.   ------------------------------  + Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2002 17:02:37 +0100 (MET) 9 From: Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>r$ Subject: Re: Could linux become VMS?; Message-ID: <01KJ77BPTL9U984WQP@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>D   > For example, up through the G > 18th century, printed English capitalized all nouns, not just proper lG > nouns as is the current convention, and different languages had/have l > differing practices.    G Still true in German today, and true in Danish until a few decades ago.h  F Although written languages originally mirrored spoken ones, with time G qualities of the written language influenced the language as a whole.  -A For example, in German there are more examples of capitalisation 6B mattering ("der Gefangene floh" ("the prisoner escaped") vs. "der 9 gefangene Floh" ("the imprisoned flea")) than in English C1 (polish/Polish---even the pronunciation changes).   ! > Ancient western languages were s@ > written in all upper case with no spaces between words and no J > punctuation.  This is the easiest possible way to write and the hardest  > possible way to read.  j  G VERY ancient Greek was also written "as the ox ploughs", i.e. one line n/ left-to-right, the next right-to-left etc.  :-).   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2002 17:29:01 +0200c' From: Brass Christof <welcome@spam.not>m$ Subject: Re: Could linux become VMS?( Message-ID: <3D13463D.8CB9F065@spam.not>   "Craig A. Berry" wrote:s > . > In article <aeqp10017tl@enews2.newsguy.com>,0 >  "Frank Sapienza" <sapienza@noesys.com> wrote: > B > > "Bill Gunshannon" <bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu> wrote in message) > > news:aeps6e$5pt$1@info.cs.uofs.edu...-5 > > > I don;t know about you, but I don't use a mono-= > > > case natural language= > H > > All natural languages are mono-case.  Just because we may format ourM > > sentences using upper- and lower-case letters for appearance doesn't make=  > > the language case-sensitive. > G > Indeed.  Writing systems are a relatively late enhancement to natural2H > languages, and the use of case is a relatively late and inconsistentlyF > applied enhancement to writing systems.  For example, up through theF > 18th century, printed English capitalized all nouns, not just properF > nouns as is the current convention, and different languages had/have > differing practices. > A > Though the details vary, the basic principle is that mixed case H > requires more effort to create and less effort to read.  This is not aC > principle cooked up recently in a focus group; it's the result ofiH > thousands of years of experimentation.  Ancient western languages were? > written in all upper case with no spaces between words and nocI > punctuation.  This is the easiest possible way to write and the hardestsA > possible way to read.  In one sense it's rather UNIX-like sinceiI > everything is just a stream of characters with divisions to be suppliedIE > on-the-fly at the time of interpretation, but in another sense it's H > completely un-UNIX-like because the entire notion of case is, shall weG > say, "not yet implemented."  In any event things have obviously moved D > into a compromise position between writing convenience and reading > convenience. > G > Where this enters into the fray for command languages and filesystemseI > is that the effort that I'm willing to make for a *person* to read whatlG > I'm writing (such as when I put asterisks around the word "person" to E > indicate emphasis) is much greater than the effort I should have torH > make for a machine.  For a command language to make case distinctions,I > at least in the verbs of the language, is just silly; that's asking the D > human being to do more work to make things easier for the machine.H > Filenames are a special kind of noun in a command language, and havingI > to specify case when selecting files is also requiring more effort of aeG > person for no particular reason. But when *displaying* files from the E > filesystem, the failure to display mixed case is another example of'A > saving effort for the machine at the expense of a person.  CasedD > preserving but case insensitive is the only way to go when using aI > machine with a command-line interface.  It's a bit galling that DOS, ofiE > all things, got there before VMS, and it's a bit annoying that mostdE > UNIX variants are moving slowly, if at all, in this direction.  The I > general trend, however, is inevitable, and using case as a special kindp> > of inflection will fall by the wayside as other such special> > inflections have been steadily doing for thousands of years.  C While I agree with your analysis I like to mention that it doesn't a, consider one point which might be important.B There should be a difference between commands and files. UNIX got A that wrong, VMS got it right. While I agree that commands should tA basically case-insensitive I still think that the possibility to  C reflect current usage of characters in natural languages is a good t< think for labeling objects. I'm not only talking about real ? case-sensitive languages where you could write short sentences  = with different meaning depending on the case chosen but also  = about simple brand names. File naming is basically assigning i8 labels. I would really like to be able name a directory ? "Windows" for denoting a brand and at the same time be able to s> name a file "windows" in the same directory that contains the : directory "Windows" for denoting a screen shot of windows.  ? Although you might be correct in the assumption that case will ,> vanish we still have several very high quality P.L.s that use < case for denoting their components. It seem that you didn't > regard this aspect. I for one would like to be able to denote = a main-component "windows" while some sub-components may get f) the names "Windows", "VMS" and "FreeBSD".s   -- r? According to the Quality Assurance Institute C/C++/ObjC, PERL, ?@ UNIX (incl. Linux) and Windows/XY are regarded as harmful. Java 0 is slow and the class library is badly designed.7 moc dot slupofni at ssarb - please reverse the sequence    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2002 12:25:54 GMT 3 From: Jeff Coffield <Jeffrey@DigitalSynergyInc.com>eG Subject: Re: DCL Puzzle: Can you produce this DIRECTORY command output?p5 Message-ID: <3D131B62.38B8E258@DigitalSynergyInc.com>n   "Alan E. Feldman" wrote:   > Hello DCL users! >dG > Can you construct an argument for the DIRECTORY command that produceso/ > the following output?:  (Sorry, no prizes :-(a >  >  > Directory SPOOK: >e > *.*; >  > Total of 1 file. >uC > You can do whatever DCL you want to prepare the argument, but theaF > above output must be produced by a single DCL DIRECTORY command withE > the ODS-2 file system. Character set manipulations and the like are  > not allowed. >o8 > (Puzzle developed on VMS v6.1 and also works on v6.2.) >o > Disclaimer: JMHO > Alan E. Feldmanl$ > afeldman atski gfigroup dotski com   $ set dev/spool=dka0: ttb0:i7 $ dir == "dir/nohead/select=file=(nodevice,nodirectory)  $ define spook ttb0:;o $  $ Directory SPOOK: *.*;   Total of 1 filee  F I'm just missing the single blank line after the Directory command, if that's actually what you got.s   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2002 12:20:32 +0200o From: "toto" <toto@toto.fr>a Subject: DCPS and HP4100% Message-ID: <aeuuko$2vm$1@wanadoo.fr>t   Hi,h  K I try to select input tray like i did with the HP4000 but on the HP4100 thetH Input_tray=tray_1 or tray_2 is not recognized but DCPS V1.8 and i get an error message "   no tray_1 ... tray on HPlaser" .   Thanks   Eric   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2002 09:12:17 -0400n* From: WILLIAM WEBB <WWEBB1@email.usps.gov> Subject: RE: DCPS and HP4100- Message-ID: <0033000069037148000002L082*@MHS>   3 =0APerhaps now that DCPS is owned by the same folks + who make HP printers, making them play well-1 together will become a matter of higher priority.   3 (Not meant as a slight toward y'all AT ALL, Paul...c:  rather poking fun at the perspectives of the suited ones)   :^)s   WWWebb   -----Original Message-----/ From: Info-VAX-Request@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNET # Sent: Friday, June 21, 2002 6:18 AM B To: Webb, William W Raleigh, NC; Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNET Subject: DCPS and HP4100     Hi,e  H I try to select input tray like i did with the HP4000 but on the HP4100=  theH Input_tray=3Dtray_1 or tray_2 is not recognized but DCPS V1.8 and i get=  an  error message "n  no tray_1 ... tray on HPlaser" .   Thanks   Eric=c   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2002 13:40:14 +0100d( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1> Subject: Defcon whitepaper) Message-ID: <3D131EAE.D00DDC83@127.0.0.1>u  H Having had no luck locating a web accessible version of this whitepaper,C if I make it available on my website, will I run into any problems?"   Hey, I did find these:   http://minga.com/austin/defcon/s  , http://www.vmsone.com/~opcom/defcon9lynx.htm   http://www.defcon.org/   Oh, found it...n  * http://www.pointsecure.com/Defconwhite.pdf   Good old alltheweb.com.t -- w? Regards, Nic Clews a.k.a. Mr. CP Charges, CSC Computer Sciences  nclews at csc dot com    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2002 10:23:57 +0200x5 From: Dirk Munk <munk@cc8554-c.groni1.gr.nl.home.com>h/ Subject: Re: DTSS$NTP_PROVIDER update available-; Message-ID: <3D12E29D.10207@cc8554-c.groni1.gr.nl.home.com>h   Bart Zorn wrote:  > Sven Tieste wrote:u  >
  >> Hello,E  >> we are using DTSS$NTP_PROVIDER to synronise the time of our Alphae  >> with a central server.I  >> The central server  has been updated to NTP 4. The request we send is:9  >> unfortunately Version 1. NTP 4 don't understand NTP1.t8  >> Question is if a newer version of  DTSS$NTP_PROVIDER  >> exist and how to get it.F  >> Maybe we have to change our time synchronisation. Some suggestionsJ  >> of safe and easy ways to use the synchronisation server which provides	  >> NTP4?-4  >> So, don't let our timeless Alpha being timeless.  >> Sven  >>e  >> p.s.E  >> kind regards to Peter and Christoph from de.comp.os.vms for theret  >> answers!  >  >  >K  > I know that TCP/IP engineering has a working version. I have it too, andcF  > I am using it both on my home system and at the company I work for.J  > There may be a chance that it is distributed with TCP/IP V5.3. It could*  > also be coming with DECnet-Plus V7.3-1.  >"  > I have not seen both kits, yet.  >  > HTH,i  >  > Bart Zorn  >  >  P I have TCPIP 5.3 installed, and there is nothing named DTSS$NTP_PROVIDER.* on myP system disk. In fact I only found a C source on a 6.2 distribution some time ago if I'm not mistaken.   ------------------------------    Date: 21 Jun 2002 05:49:50 -0700( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)1 Subject: Hackers on the war path againset Apache!e= Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0206210449.101bc6ea@posting.google.com>   < like I said, the most popular software isn't always the best8 software ... with freeware, you get what you pay for ...    ! Hackers post Apache attack tools n  * More nervousness as vulnerabilities widen & By Paul Hales, 21/06/2002 10:31:33 BST    F EVER SINCE VULNERABILITIES were discovered in some Apache web servers,C hackers have been having a field day, it seems, trying to penetrater the exposed defences. F Yesterday, some postings revealed that the fix issued by Apache, here,B following an earlier flawed attempt to plug the hole posted on theB Security Focus Bugtraq bulletin board, was also itself flawed. AndF last night a group of hackers made some tools to exploit weaknesses in the servers publicly available.m  B The hacker group, known as Gobbles Security, posted its program onE BugTraq here, claiming it had released the software to demonstrate itaD was still possible to exploit the flaw exposed on the site on MondayB and subsequently "fixed" by Apache. The program attacks Apache Web2 servers running OpenBSD, and is "very ./friendly."  D "All scriptkids/penetration testers should be able to run it withoutB any trouble. My God have mercy on our souls," said the mischievous group's posting.  D Apache is used on about 60% of Web servers, and though system adminsB are recomended to upgrade their systems with the patches available> from Apache.org, the fear is that other hackers will have beenD beavering away to make tools to exploit the flaws on other operating systems.  F "Though we previously reported that 32-bit platforms were not remotely= exploitable, it has since been proven by Gobbles that certainc? conditions allowing exploitation do exist," says a statement ona www.apache.org.i  > "Successful exploitation of this vulnerability can lead to theE execution of arbitrary code on the server with the permissions of theaF web server child process. This can facilitate the further exploitation; of vulnerabilities unrelated to Apache on the local system,o? potentially allowing the intruder root access," says the Apachei
 Foundation  E "Note that early patches for this issue released by ISS and others dor not address its full scope."  D "The risk is considered high." says the embattled foundation. It hasD released versions 1.3.26 and 2.0.39 that address and fix this issue,; and "all users are urged to upgrade immediately," it urges.    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2002 09:38:19 -0400e1 From: Michael Austin <maustin@firstdbasource.com>o5 Subject: Re: Hackers on the war path againset Apache!a2 Message-ID: <3D132C4B.BF4AB4B0@firstdbasource.com>   Bob Ceculski wrote:n > > > like I said, the most popular software isn't always the best: > software ... with freeware, you get what you pay for ... > " > Hackers post Apache attack tools > + > More nervousness as vulnerabilities widens( > By Paul Hales, 21/06/2002 10:31:33 BST > H > EVER SINCE VULNERABILITIES were discovered in some Apache web servers,E > hackers have been having a field day, it seems, trying to penetrates > the exposed defences.eH > Yesterday, some postings revealed that the fix issued by Apache, here,D > following an earlier flawed attempt to plug the hole posted on theD > Security Focus Bugtraq bulletin board, was also itself flawed. AndH > last night a group of hackers made some tools to exploit weaknesses in! > the servers publicly available.r > D > The hacker group, known as Gobbles Security, posted its program onG > BugTraq here, claiming it had released the software to demonstrate itIF > was still possible to exploit the flaw exposed on the site on MondayD > and subsequently "fixed" by Apache. The program attacks Apache Web4 > servers running OpenBSD, and is "very ./friendly." > F > "All scriptkids/penetration testers should be able to run it withoutD > any trouble. My God have mercy on our souls," said the mischievous > group's posting. > F > Apache is used on about 60% of Web servers, and though system adminsD > are recomended to upgrade their systems with the patches available@ > from Apache.org, the fear is that other hackers will have beenF > beavering away to make tools to exploit the flaws on other operating
 > systems. > H > "Though we previously reported that 32-bit platforms were not remotely? > exploitable, it has since been proven by Gobbles that certainuA > conditions allowing exploitation do exist," says a statement onh > www.apache.org.y > @ > "Successful exploitation of this vulnerability can lead to theG > execution of arbitrary code on the server with the permissions of theeH > web server child process. This can facilitate the further exploitation= > of vulnerabilities unrelated to Apache on the local system,tA > potentially allowing the intruder root access," says the Apache  > Foundation > G > "Note that early patches for this issue released by ISS and others do- > not address its full scope." > F > "The risk is considered high." says the embattled foundation. It hasF > released versions 1.3.26 and 2.0.39 that address and fix this issue,= > and "all users are urged to upgrade immediately," it urges.e  F If they want to try and hack my VMS system, good luck.  the web server5 has absolutely no privs.  They better get OpenVMS....l   -- r Regards,  6 Michael Austin            OpenVMS User since June 19847 First DBA Source, Inc.    Registered Linux User #261163e7 Sr. Consultant            http://www.firstdbasource.com E                           http://www.firstdbasource.com/donation.htmlE/ 704-947-1089 (Office)     704-236-4377 (Mobile)    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2002 09:57:07 +0100n( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1>4 Subject: Re: howto create self-extracting zip files?) Message-ID: <3D12EA63.5875AF7A@127.0.0.1>t   Wayne Morrison wrote:  >  ...oK > VAX.  It's primarily a matter of needing to choose where you spend finitesF > engineering resources.  Between the Itanium port and significant newI > functionality (yes, mostly on Alpha), we're keeping rather busy here in9
 > OpenVMS.&                  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^  H Surely this is incorrect. It is both Alpha and Itanium as they share theF code base, so this new functionality will also be on Itanium releases.   -- c? Regards, Nic Clews a.k.a. Mr. CP Charges, CSC Computer Sciencest nclews at csc dot comn   ------------------------------  + Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2002 11:09:52 +0100 (MET)v9 From: Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>a4 Subject: Re: howto create self-extracting zip files?; Message-ID: <01KJ6V321XUQ96WTPR@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>t  M > > VAX.  It's primarily a matter of needing to choose where you spend finiteoH > > engineering resources.  Between the Itanium port and significant newK > > functionality (yes, mostly on Alpha), we're keeping rather busy here ine > > OpenVMS.( >                  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > J > Surely this is incorrect. It is both Alpha and Itanium as they share theH > code base, so this new functionality will also be on Itanium releases.  I Misunderstanding.  The "new functionality (yes, mostly on Alpha)" refers  D to Alpha instead of VAX, not Alpha instead of Itanium.  As you say, E ALPHA and ITANIUM share the same code base, but ALPHA and VAX do not.i   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2002 11:37:28 +0100p( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1>4 Subject: Re: howto create self-extracting zip files?) Message-ID: <3D1301E8.475CE98C@127.0.0.1>l   Phillip Helbig wrote:n > O > > > VAX.  It's primarily a matter of needing to choose where you spend finitenJ > > > engineering resources.  Between the Itanium port and significant newM > > > functionality (yes, mostly on Alpha), we're keeping rather busy here ins > > > OpenVMS.* > >                  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > >kL > > Surely this is incorrect. It is both Alpha and Itanium as they share theJ > > code base, so this new functionality will also be on Itanium releases. > J > Misunderstanding.  The "new functionality (yes, mostly on Alpha)" refersE > to Alpha instead of VAX, not Alpha instead of Itanium.  As you say,rG > ALPHA and ITANIUM share the same code base, but ALPHA and VAX do not.M  D I know you're right in what you say, but my point here is while they> ensure that the corporate "we are not marketing OpenVMS in theF mainstream" is consistent, they should spend some more effort ensuringH that they are clear there will NOT be two (sic 3 with VAX) 'versions' of VMS.  E And while I'm here, something that I had recently made clear to me is7D that "limited clustering"  actually means "limited test", it doesn't means some bits are missing.  H You or I don't work in VMS Engineering or the department as a whole, butF occasionally it crosses my mind why we, and some others here (you know& who you are), aren't on their payroll. -- e? Regards, Nic Clews a.k.a. Mr. CP Charges, CSC Computer Sciences  nclews at csc dot comh   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2002 11:28:59 +0200o From: Dirk Munk <munk@home.nl>7 Subject: Re: HP RoadShow in France these days: a reporte& Message-ID: <3D12F1DB.4010405@home.nl>  P Do you have a link where we can find this information ? I looked at the IDC web G site but couldn't find it. Or is the infomration not freely available ?e     Keith Parris wrote:s] > Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@Free.fr> wrote in message news:<3D10E8DE.3952A30@Free.fr>...a > # >>VMS sales in France : +3% in 2001  >  > D > There appears to be good news not only in France, and not only for > 2001.e > E > IDC Quarterly Server Tracker data for Western Europe shows that VMSnG > was the ONLY operating system platform to grow in 1Q2002, with growthn
 > of 8.7%. > G > For the same period, WinNT/2K decreased by 18.5%, Unix fell by 21.9%,d@ > OS/390 and OS/400 both dropped by 20% or more, and the 'Other'! > category dropped by almost 40%.f< > ----------------------------------------------------------< > Keith Parris | parris <at> DECUServe <dot> decus <dot> org   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2002 12:40:35 -0500.$ From: "Art Beane" <beane@petris.com>7 Subject: RE: HP RoadShow in France these days: a reportv7 Message-ID: <001b01c2194a$bfcbbd30$352810ac@petris.com>a   The US version is here:5  E http://www.hp.com/large/events/2002/power_of_invention/materials.htmlc   -----Original Message-----& From: Dirk Munk [mailto:munk@home.nl] # Sent: Friday, June 21, 2002 4:29 AMr To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comp7 Subject: Re: HP RoadShow in France these days: a report@  G Do you have a link where we can find this information ? I looked at the  IDC web G site but couldn't find it. Or is the infomration not freely available ?u   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2002 12:12:24 -0400e From: G Everhart <ge@gce.com>w) Subject: LLC for VMS Marketing Volunteersa& Message-ID: <3D135068.7060208@gce.com>  L Such an LLC is cheap to set up here in Delaware, but mind there will need toM be some statement of purpose to the effect that its intent is to advocate theiO use of VMS in truthful, professional, appropriate, decorous ways (as opposed topG setting up a platform for starting flamewars or otherwise just angering, people).  J I could well imagine someone being worried about such a development unlessJ they could see that the intent was just the kind of thing VMS afficionadosI have done for decades (and in fact not to do all that much in a corporate H sense at all, what with the expected assets of approximately $0.00 being
 as they are).u  K Are there any lawyers that frequent the group that might give a word or twon
 of advice?   Glenn Everhart   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2002 16:44:24 GMT ) From: scumbag@Dewey-Cheetham-and-Howe.comd- Subject: Re: LLC for VMS Marketing Volunteersv; Message-ID: <00A0FCA9.D63FFB61@Dewey-Cheetham-and-Howe.com>s  F In article <3D135068.7060208@gce.com>, G Everhart <ge@gce.com> writes:M >Such an LLC is cheap to set up here in Delaware, but mind there will need to N >be some statement of purpose to the effect that its intent is to advocate theP >use of VMS in truthful, professional, appropriate, decorous ways (as opposed toH >setting up a platform for starting flamewars or otherwise just angering	 >people).t >aK >I could well imagine someone being worried about such a development unless K >they could see that the intent was just the kind of thing VMS afficionadostJ >have done for decades (and in fact not to do all that much in a corporateI >sense at all, what with the expected assets of approximately $0.00 beingi >as they are). >sL >Are there any lawyers that frequent the group that might give a word or two >of advice?e  . Legal advice costs money.  Send large amounts.   -------------------- Hugh Ivan Tasue, Esq.f/   Junior Partner and Principle Ambulance Chaserf!   c/o Frivoluous Litigation Dept.d0       Dewey, Cheetham and Howe, Attorneys at Law   ------------------------------    Date: 21 Jun 2002 02:05:42 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>5 Subject: Re: My conversation with Linus about VMS ...n0 Message-ID: <87it4dkeq1.fsf@k9.prep.synonet.com>  ) carl@gerg.tamu.edu (Carl Perkins) writes:s  = > So my own news client strips a leading dot from a line whenvE > displaying the article, but includes all of them in the quoted text  > when replying to an article.  D I seem to have a vague memory that `.' as the first char of the line in a message is RFC majik.  c& > This behavior is rather sub-optimal.  ' Ah, but it is _STANDARD_ sub-optimal...-   --  < Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.C@                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2002 10:01:29 +0100"U From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <andrew_nospam.harrison_remove_this@sun#.com>0 Subject: Re: Open Letter to HP0 Message-ID: <aeuqhq$sa8$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   Bill Todd wrote:  > > "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com> wrote in message( > news:bNGN8.16081$nZ3.1955@rwcrnsc53... > % >>"Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy"t@ >><andrew_nospam.harrison_remove_this@sun#.com> wrote in message, >>news:ae755q$7cb$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com... >> >  > ...  >  > = >>>It also remains to be seen if HP does benefit, the numbersc; >>>you quote are actually just a straight add of the HP and,: >>>Compaq UNIX numbers, the jury is out on if this will be= >>>the end result, HP's own SEC submission suggests otherwise " >>>as you know, where they wrong ? >>>iC >>One might surmise some attrition, especially from the Tru64 camp._ >> > N > If Tru64's Q1 market share fell to about 7% (as the numbers quoted appear toM > reflect) there's *already* been a great deal of attrition.  I don't have atDI > hand its previous figures, but IIRC a year or more ago it held over 10%rF > market share and was said to be increasing it at a pretty good rate. >     A The UK numbers for Tru64 peaked at 11% but are now down in the 5%u mark.i   Regardsr Andrew Harrison$   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2002 10:25:38 +0100 U From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <andrew_nospam.harrison_remove_this@sun#.com>a< Subject: Re: Reuters test - Itanium II blows away Sparky III0 Message-ID: <aeurv4$so5$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   Bob Ceculski wrote:s  u > "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote in message news:<HwmQ8.41739$_j6.2392907@bin3.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>...  > 9 >>"Frank Sapienza" <sapienza@noesys.com> wrote in messagem' >>news:aesnih0rls@enews3.newsguy.com...o >>F >>>Well, this certainly goes into the "good new, bad news" department. >>>>M >>>Good if you happen to not like Sun systems and are looking for ammunition.. >>> I >>Sounded like Terry in 'advocate' (as distinct from 'unbiased observer') M >>mode, since information about the Sun configuration that would have allowed F >>a more informed judgement to be made about the purported results was >>conspicuously absent.- >>G >>Funny how there's *still* no release of apples-to-apples (e.g., SPEC)k >>comparisons... >> >>- bill >> > E > what's wrong with that?  Sun and others have been doing the same toe > Alpha for years ...t >     ? BS Bob that is exactly what Compaq has done for years. Remembere: you are the person who has been unable to find any usefull; examples that illustrate the AlphaServers are fast Sun's orP others are slow conjecture.3  ? I have provided a list of comparable benchmarks that illustrate ? that AlphaServers are currently unable to match the performancei? claims made for them by Compaq, the list are benchmarks done bys= Compaq and they are the only large scale benchmarks availabler for the boxes,  : You seem to be using a standard politicians trick if found8 out accuse the other party in the argument of doing what you have been caught doing.   6 That and repetition of the same BS over and over again2 in the vague hope that one of the re-spins will be convincing.a  8 Incedentally I assume that your sudden re-invention as a5 member of the IA-64 marketing department reflects thew4 fact that you realise that marketing AlphaServers on% performance terms is a hopeless task.e   Regardsr Andrew Harrison,   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2002 10:31:43 +0100 U From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <andrew_nospam.harrison_remove_this@sun#.com>o< Subject: Re: Reuters test - Itanium II blows away Sparky III0 Message-ID: <aeusag$sp4$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   Bob Ceculski wrote:i  \ > David Mathog <mathog@caltech.edu> wrote in message news:<3D11FFDD.1FCC3C6A@caltech.edu>... >  >>Bob Ceculski wrote:x >> >>E >>If I had to bet I'd wager that the HP had much more memory than thetF >>Sun (because 16Gb is still a lot of memory) and that this particularD >>application was able to make use of it (if only for disk caching).E >>Now HP might have a selling point still if the Sun cannot hold thatnI >>much memory - but it would  have nothing to do with Itanium performances	 >>per se.t >>
 >>Regards, >> >>David Mathog >>mathog@caltech.edu >> > G > what's wrong with that?  Sun and others ahve been doing the same withh > Alpha for years ...t >     : Another repetition of the standard BS, hom many more do we have to put up with ?p  A The only performance conspiracy arround is not the responsibility > of Sun or others competing with Alphas except that we have all" conspired to produce fast systems.   Regardsa Andrew Harrisond   ------------------------------  + Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2002 09:58:13 +0000 (UTC)g From: david20@alpha1.mdx.ac.uk< Subject: Re: Reuters test - Itanium II blows away Sparky III+ Message-ID: <aeutbl$bg6$1@aquila.mdx.ac.uk>c  Z In article <aetvoi0r1i@enews4.newsguy.com>, "Frank Sapienza" <sapienza@noesys.com> writes:6 >"Bob Ceculski" <bob@instantwhip.com> wrote in message7 >news:d7791aa1.0206201240.f1abc34@posting.google.com....I >Having contracted at Reuters and knowing the investment they have in VMSaM >systems, I understand it would require another huge investment to retire all/L >that stuff.  Maybe they only did that one application under Itanium/WindowsL >and they're going to keep their back-end stuff on VMS/Sybase (which is what' >they were running when I was there).     I That might be the answer the latest version of SYBASE doesn't run on VMS.o    
 David Webb VMS and Unix team leader CCSS Middlesex University    % >Maybe they've decided that they needsG >to use modern development tools, or are having a hard time finding VMSeK >programmers (1), or who knows what, and this is indicative of a transitiono >away from VMS.l >SI >Again, I don't know.  It just seems odd to me that a company with such aeH >large investment in VMS systems, applications, and staff would choose aK >different platform to develop what sounds like a fairly large and critical 
 >application.W >  >eA >(1) It seems to me that schools are pumping out programmers withkK >Windows/Unix C/C++/Java/VB experience.  That's where the demand appears tooJ >be, so you don't want to be training Cobol programmers -- it doesn't helpL >get your students hired.  For the same reason you're not going to develop aF >curriculum around VMS if all the recruiters coming to your school are+ >looking for Unix/Linux/Windows experience.h >  >n >    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2002 13:30:04 GMTy# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>e< Subject: Re: Reuters test - Itanium II blows away Sparky IIIG Message-ID: <wTFQ8.94533$831.1624@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>   F "Craig A. Berry" <craig.berry@nospam.SignalTreeSolutions.com> wrote inJ message news:craig.berry-ADC1D1.23272720062002@news.directvinternet.com... >bE > It's true there are only thousands rather than tens of thousands ofiH > available applications, and in certain sectors that hurts.  At least aE > great many basic tools and technologies are there if you want them.tA > Pick your favorite standards-based buzz-acronym in the world oftF > software development and there's a good chance a VMS version exists,) > SOAP being the most recent (this week).   " The problem with this is two-fold:  K a) Most non-VMS savvy shops or *NEW* VMS customers (to put it bluntly usingxI the word that's banned in Palo Alto) would prefer to have some measure ofeK competition amongst software suppliers. Often in the VMS world there's onlyaJ one commercially available software choice for a particular tool - perhapsI there are more than ome but all too often the others have so few installs.J that the vendors don't have enough revenue to keep them populated with new: features, thus limiting their attractiveness to customers.  E b) Many shops (maybe not yours) don't want to deal with 'open-source'iK software and have to spend the time and effort to get such software running0J in their environment. They want to have the comfort, even if it costs themJ money in the form of maintenance contracts, that somebody other than theirF own staff will be able to work on their problems at 2:30am on a Sunday morning.     >uL > > Having contracted at Reuters and knowing the investment they have in VMSL > > systems, I understand it would require another huge investment to retire all9? > > that stuff.  Maybe they only did that one application underi Itanium/WindowstJ > > and they're going to keep their back-end stuff on VMS/Sybase (which is what( > > they were running when I was there). >eB > Sybase may be one of their problems.  Development stopped on VMSH > several years ago and support stopped sometime in, I believe, the lastI > year. I think VMS 6.2 was the last data point on the supported versionsoI > matrix. This puts folks in a bit of a bind because if they upgrade to aDI > version of VMS recent enough to run Java or CSWS, they are on a versioniC > that is not known to work with Sybase.  We've been running SybaserG > 11.0.2 on VMS 7.1 for quite some time with no problems, and I've donenG > some basic tests with v7.3 without seeing any trouble, but if you didn? > run into problems in such an environment you'd really be SOL.   L And this is part of the big picture - why do you suppose that Sybase stopped supporting VMS?i  : It's called lack of marketing of VMS to *NEW* customers byJ Digital/Compaq/HP. Despite Sybase's problems, they aren't stupid. Say theyE have 10,000 OpenVMS customers and given the lack of growth in the VMS ? market, how does Sybase increase their sales in the VMS market?-  I Take a typical year (all numbers are hypothetical but serve to illustraten the point):.0 a) 2% of Sybase's OpenVMS customers go bankrupt.) b) 6% discontinue the application on VMS.1: c) 5% of your customers replace Sybase with Oracle or DB2.C d) Another 2% discontine Sybase support on their db as cost cutting 	 measures. H e) Sybase sells new VMS licences to 3% of their existing installed base.G e) Sybase doesn't get any *NEW* VMS customers because Digital/Compaq/HPn$ don't market VMS to *NEW* customers.  F If you were John Chen of Sybase, what decision would you make for your
 shareholders?e   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2002 13:35:06 GMTl! From: Andy <acs@fcgnet.works.net>e< Subject: Re: Reuters test - Itanium II blows away Sparky III> Message-ID: <Xns92346140EA281acsfcgnetworksnet@216.166.71.232>  = "Craig A. Berry" <craig.berry@nospam.SignalTreeSolutions.com>n enlightened us with A news:craig.berry-ADC1D1.23272720062002@news.directvinternet.com:      oA > you want them.  Pick your favorite standards-based buzz-acronymtB > in the world of software development and there's a good chance a= > VMS version exists, SOAP being the most recent (this week).   ! Was an announcement posted here ?h   See:  A http://www.openvms.compaq.com/openvms/products/ips/soap/soap.htmll  A Which looks nice but requires Java... (Nothing wrong with that...n; other than my Alpha is too slow to comfortably run Java...)    -Andy-   ------------------------------  + Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2002 08:55:27 +0100 (MET)t9 From: Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>C+ Subject: Re: rooted devices and /TRANS=CONC ; Message-ID: <01KJ6QFNBOQQ984WQP@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>u  K > > Good summary.  It seems like /TRAN=CONC behaves like /TRAN=TERM in thisw	 > > case.t > >[...] > 7 > It's not a (2nd) logical name translation that fails,h9 > but *RMS* insisting that a /TRANS=CONC equivalence name 5 > has exactly one of two syntactical formats - eitherm
 > 	name + ":"l > or > 	name1 + ":[" + name2 + ".]" > A > Note that without /TRANS=CONC, RMS permits a variety of formats12 > (any complete or incomplete file specification).  B This seems to hit the nail on the head.  Where is this documented?   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2002 12:34:58 +0200 : From: "Gotfryd Smolik, VMS lists" <gotfryd@stanpol.com.pl>+ Subject: Re: rooted devices and /TRANS=CONCtI Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0206211159230.1681-100000@irys.stanpol.com.pl>x  & On 19 Jun 2002, Alan E. Feldman wrote:   >+Comments interspersed: >+ >+"Gotfryd Smolik, VMS lists" <gotfryd@stanpol.com.pl> wrote in message news:<Pine.LNX.4.21.0206182222130.18149-100000@irys.stanpol.com.pl>...* >+> On 18 Jun 2002, Alan E. Feldman wrote: >+> 7 >+> >+"David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> [...]  >+>  [...Alan/David again...] ! [...little - some pages - cut...]t@ >+>  And - be aware - the file name parsing is done withing RMS,= >+> *not* system QIO. Then - like any other code - RMS is nota; >+> allowed to "know" that the CONCEALED logical translatesi >+> to anything !  >+F >+How can RMS access/set up a channel for/whatever a file if it is not( >+allowed to know the final translation?    What ?w%  I am not sure what you will say... !y1  First possiblity: the fact that "RMS doesn't..." =  When you use "normal" logicals - then RMS name parsing workse: even if the first translation "looks like wrong", agreed ?<  When you use concealed logicals - the "name will not work", agreed ??  *When* you use concealed logicals where translates incorrectly-= to name without ":", *then* you observe that "the translationp doesn't work".B  But the sentence "the translation doesn't work" is wrong, because9 the translation *still works* only the *RMS check* fails.r-  In the case RMS does *not* "open a channel".s  2  The second possiblity: "RMS must parse the name".:  Really, my sentence was wrong; the directory-tree parsing6 (including the "hidden" part) must be done within RMS.  6  My comment was about the syntax parsing phase *only*, and excuse my fault.  5  RMS *must* resolve the name *before* it suposes thata4 it is b.ex. a DECNET access (inluding "other object" access) etc.4  And in *that* phase RMS founds, that AAA[something]2 cannot be resolved nor as DECNET nor as ODS nor as any other name.n  < >+>  Of course - 'concealing' a logicals is not protected :): >+> with something like privileges etc., the code even can= >+> check the name, but - IMO - this is a *GREAT* VMS featurel> >+> (the fact, that the code "know" the LOGICAL, *even if uses  >+> names returned from RMS* !).C >+>  The fact, that a "normal" code is not aware whether the "BBB:" G >+> device really is "DKA100:" - is the feature, and little differrencee; >+> with translation of logicals with and without CONCEALEDe! >+> - is the cost of the feature.o >+C >+I think only the command output is "not aware" of what BBB reallyr >+translates to.    Really not.<  Write a simple code where parses the name AAA:[xyz]test.txtA and check what you application will "know" about the device name.t0  The *returned to application* name is hidden :)  # >+> >+ Now, from the User's Manual:c [...you are right...]cL >+> >+Logical name translation can be iterative: after the system translatesH >+> >+a logical name, it repeats the translation process for any logical= >+> >+names it finds contained within the first logical name.d >+> >+L >+> >+Now, BBB is clearly a logical name "contained within the first logicalC >+> >+name". So BBB is then translated to DKA100: which in front ofL9 >+> >+[FELDMAN] forms a perfectly valid file-spec string.  >+>  >+>  Really.> >+>  But, when RMS checks the filename *before* starts to OPENC >+> it - it checks the parsing. But the returned by system functionw0 >+> name has invalid syntax - then is rejected ! >+( >+So why is this affected by /TRAN=CONC?  &  Supose file name "BBB:[DIR]FILE.EXT": 1. Properly:  BBB -> XXX: -> DKA100:iD TRNLNM returns DKA100: and the name will end as DKA100:[DIR]FILE.EXT   2. Improperly:  BBB -> XXX -> DKA100:  :  When RMS *checks* the name format *before resolving* then4 TRNLNM returns "DKA100:" and the name will be end as DKA100:[DIR]FILE.EXT   3. Improperly concealed:  BBB -> XXX -> DKA100:  = TRNLNM will return XXX, the name will end as XXX[DIR]FILE.EXTd) and is rejected without further checking. 7 RMS *doesn't* know if that is NFS name, DECNET FAL name < nor ODS name: nothing fits, then the name must be rejected !   [...].. >+What is consistent and how is it consistent?    The parsing :)l2  How ? Because name of invalid syntax is rejected.    Regards - Gotfryd   --  E =====================================================================tF $ ON F$ERROR("LANGUAGE","ENGLISH","IN_MESSAGE").GT.F$ERROR("NORMAL") - 		THEN EXCUSE/OBJECT=ME . $!                        GS@stanpol.zabrze.plE =====================================================================s   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2002 10:15:10 +0100oU From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <andrew_nospam.harrison_remove_this@sun#.com> * Subject: Re: Sun/Slowaris future in doubt!0 Message-ID: <aeurbg$shd$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   Bob Ceculski wrote:t  w > "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> wrote in message news:<qmnQ8.418557$t8_.376314@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>...  > 7 >>"Bob Ceculski" <bob@instantwhip.com> wrote in messageo8 >>news:d7791aa1.0206200538.3bd4a7a@posting.google.com... >>E >>>and if itanic/epic does fail, I say that is why Intel bought Alpha7B >>>insurance and you will see EV8 - EV9 pop up again with an IntelE >>>logo on it ... Intel will not risk the failure, and a Hammer knockuC >>>off will not help them compete in the high end, only Alpha wouldd6 >>>then ... of course, Bill Todd disagrees with me ... >>> N >>Thanks to Digital/Compaq/HP, it will be Microsoft that benefits the most if,N >>as, and when IA64 flops. They will have a perfectly credible (in many fool's& >>eyes) 64-bit os that runs on Hammer. >>M >>Nobody in the MS-space will trust HP to supply hardware to them, even it itRG >>was Hammer-based. "Hello Dell, I'd like to place a very large order."@ >>K >>And as to the poor unix/VMS/NSK types who bought the Intel/Compaq/HP linesJ >>about how good IA64 will be, they will take their cash and chant the new >>motto, "In IBM we trust".e >> > 2 > not if they are keeping up with EV8 as a backup! >     9 They are not, the Alpha engineering team have left to goth5 to Intel and other processor development teams. Intelu8 who seem to have the majority are not going to introduce8 another ISA into their product mix. It does not make any business sense to do so.  9 Alpha ISA is dead from a long term development standpointh8 Intel have IA-32, IA-64, unless forced to move to x86-646 by Microsoft and the market. They are nor going to add9 Alpha to this stable. Anyone who seriously thinks this iss: a possibility does not understand the issues of supporting and developing an ISA.  ? AMD for example have been very smart, x86-64 being an extensione< of IA-32 is not an entirely new ISA, it fully supports IA-32< apps so AMD do not have to persuade lost of ISV's to support9 their new architecture. This may have been one key factorr< in MS's decision to support x86-64, no need to persuade lots& of ISV's to port including themselves.   Regardsr Andrew Harrisone   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2002 15:00:28 GMTm1 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com>q* Subject: Re: Sun/Slowaris future in doubt!. Message-ID: <gcHQ8.102004$nZ3.43425@rwcrnsc53>  # "Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy"u> <andrew_nospam.harrison_remove_this@sun#.com> wrote in message* news:aeurbg$shd$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com... >o >f > Bob Ceculski wrote:v >a2 > > "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> wrote in messageF news:<qmnQ8.418557$t8_.376314@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>... > >a9 > >>"Bob Ceculski" <bob@instantwhip.com> wrote in messagea: > >>news:d7791aa1.0206200538.3bd4a7a@posting.google.com... > >>G > >>>and if itanic/epic does fail, I say that is why Intel bought Alpha-D > >>>insurance and you will see EV8 - EV9 pop up again with an IntelG > >>>logo on it ... Intel will not risk the failure, and a Hammer knockoE > >>>off will not help them compete in the high end, only Alpha would-8 > >>>then ... of course, Bill Todd disagrees with me ... > >>> L > >>Thanks to Digital/Compaq/HP, it will be Microsoft that benefits the most if,eI > >>as, and when IA64 flops. They will have a perfectly credible (in many  fool's( > >>eyes) 64-bit os that runs on Hammer. > >>L > >>Nobody in the MS-space will trust HP to supply hardware to them, even it itI > >>was Hammer-based. "Hello Dell, I'd like to place a very large order."n > >>H > >>And as to the poor unix/VMS/NSK types who bought the Intel/Compaq/HP lineL > >>about how good IA64 will be, they will take their cash and chant the new > >>motto, "In IBM we trust".  > >> > >w4 > > not if they are keeping up with EV8 as a backup! > >t >  >l; > They are not, the Alpha engineering team have left to gotd7 > to Intel and other processor development teams. Inteln: > who seem to have the majority are not going to introduce: > another ISA into their product mix. It does not make any > business sense to do so.  G Correct, and unless INTC has a supersecret skunk works effort going, an-I entire year of EV8 and beyond development has been lost. Sun and IBM havea8 suffered no such hiatus in future processor development.   >I; > Alpha ISA is dead from a long term development standpointe: > Intel have IA-32, IA-64, unless forced to move to x86-648 > by Microsoft and the market. They are nor going to add; > Alpha to this stable. Anyone who seriously thinks this is.< > a possibility does not understand the issues of supporting > and developing an ISA. > A > AMD for example have been very smart, x86-64 being an extensionr> > of IA-32 is not an entirely new ISA, it fully supports IA-32> > apps so AMD do not have to persuade lost of ISV's to support; > their new architecture. This may have been one key factore> > in MS's decision to support x86-64, no need to persuade lots( > of ISV's to port including themselves.  ? In this case I have to agree with my esteemed colleague Andrew.M   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2002 16:37:14 +0100aU From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <andrew_nospam.harrison_remove_this@sun#.com>d* Subject: Re: Sun/Slowaris future in doubt!0 Message-ID: <aevh58$6ed$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   Terry C. Shannon wrote:e  % > "Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy"c  ; >>They are not, the Alpha engineering team have left to gotp7 >>to Intel and other processor development teams. Inteli: >>who seem to have the majority are not going to introduce: >>another ISA into their product mix. It does not make any >>business sense to do so. >> > I > Correct, and unless INTC has a supersecret skunk works effort going, aneK > entire year of EV8 and beyond development has been lost. Sun and IBM havep: > suffered no such hiatus in future processor development. >  > ; >>Alpha ISA is dead from a long term development standpoint : >>Intel have IA-32, IA-64, unless forced to move to x86-648 >>by Microsoft and the market. They are nor going to add; >>Alpha to this stable. Anyone who seriously thinks this ise< >>a possibility does not understand the issues of supporting >>and developing an ISA. >>A >>AMD for example have been very smart, x86-64 being an extensionc> >>of IA-32 is not an entirely new ISA, it fully supports IA-32> >>apps so AMD do not have to persuade lost of ISV's to support; >>their new architecture. This may have been one key factora> >>in MS's decision to support x86-64, no need to persuade lots( >>of ISV's to port including themselves. >> > A > In this case I have to agree with my esteemed colleague Andrew.e >     ? I thought about it some more and IA-64 was only really possible = with Intel behind it. They thought/think that their marketing)? muscle and relationships would allow them to impose an entirelylB new ISA onto the market. This has proved to be much more difficultD than Intel expected partly because of delays and lack of performance% and partly because of ISV resistance.l  F In my opinion no one in Intel will contemplate trying this again with B the Alpha ISA no matter how attractive EV8 might look through rose coloured spectacles.  = And then we get to HP, HP have invested huge amounts of cash,l= IP and placed their reputation on the line for IA-64. Despitey; owning a division that produces Alpha servers HP would havee; to execute a hugely costly about face to base any long termu< strategy on servers based on Alpha rather than servers based? on IA-64. Ironically HP despite owning the AlphaServer division 3 are one of the least likely vendors to ditch IA-64.e  ; Finally we get to time frames, the Alpha team has gone, the 8 people working on EV8 are no longer doing so and even if: resurected tommorow a year would have to be added onto the delivery schedule.  ; If IA-64 tanks and Hammer, SPARC and Power 4/5 end up beingd? the 64 bit market leaders then Intel and HP will need somethingoC sooner than a resurrected EV8 could deliver in terms of timeframes.h  @ x86-64 would be the only option for Intel it would take too long> to persuade the ISV's to change tack. HP who knows but without= Intels full support IA-64 would be dead and Bills speculationn8 about Hammer would move from speculation to probability.   Regardsx Andrew Harrison    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2002 17:12:09 GMT # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>o* Subject: Re: Sun/Slowaris future in doubt!H Message-ID: <J7JQ8.426515$t8_.4412@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>  # "Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy" > <andrew_nospam.harrison_remove_this@sun#.com> wrote in message* news:aevh58$6ed$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com... >n >t= > Finally we get to time frames, the Alpha team has gone, the : > people working on EV8 are no longer doing so and even if< > resurected tommorow a year would have to be added onto the > delivery schedule.  L Re-recruit the members of the EV8 team that left for AMD or elsewhere. OfferI each member of the entire EV8 team $1MM bonus for working 16-20 hours/dayeK for a year, and that missing year is made-up pretty fast. I bet that such atL deal would be met with great enthusiasm by the EV8 team. And it would be the% best money Intel/HP could ever spend.h  L HP can say that it was those idiots at CPQ that screwed up in killing Alpha,# and then fire Capellas 'for cause'.u   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2002 12:59:22 GMTi# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>lD Subject: Re: The VMS customer minute of the day: Paper ManufacturingH Message-ID: <KqFQ8.425609$t8_.4974@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>  K Seems to me that it isn't Oracle's responsibility to keep track of how many-' people a customer has on their payroll.   L Maybe California was planning a hostile takeover of some other nearby statesI that have adequate water and electricity supplies and figured that they'dtL need the extra licenses for the state employees from those other states. ;-)    H ""Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr"" <winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>C wrote in message news:00A0FC0E.3DB28A98@SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU...sB > In article <3D126773.C6F125D@firstdbasource.com>, Michael Austin$ <maustin@firstdbasource.com> writes: > >"Terry C. Shannon" wrote: > >>; > >> "Bart Zorn" <B.Zorn@xs4all.nospam.nl> wrote in messagee. > >> news:3D124FF4.2030003@xs4all.nospam.nl... > >> > Hans Vlems wrote: > >> > > Beautiful Didier :-)  > >> >J > >> > OK, but what did they gain by buying Oracle 8 instead of continuing to > >> > use Rdb?d > >>L > >> Umm, diminished performance but a popular brand name? (Except that it's notm) > >> so popular in California right now!)o > >c9 > >care to elaborate for those of us on the East coast...- > H > Somehow Oracle managed to sell (and get paid for) the California stateK > government per-user employee licenses for quite a lot more employees than L > the California state government _has_.  (I forget how many more, but we're/ > talking millions of dollars in license fees.)  >cI > There's a big scandal over it.  I haven't been following the story very1K > closely, despite living a few miles from the big black towers of Oracle'sr > galactic headquarters. >l	 > -- Alanm >t >iL ============================================================================ ===n2 >  Alan Winston --- WINSTON@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDUA >  Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:t 650/926-3056C >  Physical mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 69, PO BOX 4349, STANFORD, CAn
 94309-0210 >2L ============================================================================ ===: >    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2002 07:47:14 -0700l, From: "James Gessling" <jgessling@yahoo.com>D Subject: Re: The VMS customer minute of the day: Paper Manufacturing4 Message-ID: <aeve9k$aid70$1@ID-46415.news.dfncis.de>  8 > care to elaborate for those of us on the East coast... >.  = Lots of articles in the San Jose Mercury site.  Try this one:   7 http://www.bayarea.com/mld/bayarea/business/3512683.htmO  
 Regards,  Jim    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2002 08:00:59 -0700t, From: "James Gessling" <jgessling@yahoo.com>D Subject: Re: The VMS customer minute of the day: Paper Manufacturing4 Message-ID: <aevf3c$9jg5o$1@ID-46415.news.dfncis.de>  8 > care to elaborate for those of us on the East coast... >tA Here's all the dirt you would ever need on Oracle ripping off the  state of california.  I http://www.siliconvalley.com/mld/siliconvalley/business/companies/oracle/    Jims   ------------------------------    Date: 21 Jun 2002 07:45:57 -0600- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)h Subject: Re: unix history 3 Message-ID: <9tthqOCbLP1m@eisner.encompasserve.org>e  x In article <vE5+qy6wFWov@eisner.encompasserve.org>, clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP (Simon Clubley) writes: > M > My platform of interest is x86. Given Bill's comments about current FreeBSD M > packaging issues, I was interested in how many versions of FreeBSD I shouldtF > go back from the current one to find one that is packaged correctly.  G    It only take a little poking around in MacOS X documentation to findhH    out there's a copy of Darwin that runs on x86.  Getting it from AppleE    might be the easy part, I haven't seen anything suggesting the GUIo    was ported.  &    Now that would be something to see.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2002 10:53:16 -0400t( From: "Mike Foley" <mike-spam@yelof.com> Subject: Re: unix history / Message-ID: <uh6fevifrhh25e@corp.supernews.com>   A Yup, Darwin runs on x86. You can grab ISO's somewhere on the net.iA The Mac GUI sits on top of Darwin. That has not been ported and Ir suspect, never will be.e  E There's a good graphic that explains where everything is in relation.t
 Check out:9 http://developer.apple.com/macosx/architecture/index.htmlC     mike    : "Bob Koehler" <koehler@encompasserve.org> wrote in message- news:9tthqOCbLP1m@eisner.encompasserve.org...r5 > In article <vE5+qy6wFWov@eisner.encompasserve.org>,eD clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP (Simon Clubley) writes: > >oG > > My platform of interest is x86. Given Bill's comments about current  FreeBSD H > > packaging issues, I was interested in how many versions of FreeBSD I shouldH > > go back from the current one to find one that is packaged correctly. >tI >    It only take a little poking around in MacOS X documentation to findaJ >    out there's a copy of Darwin that runs on x86.  Getting it from AppleG >    might be the easy part, I haven't seen anything suggesting the GUIe >    was ported. >0( >    Now that would be something to see. >    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2002 12:08:31 -0400c* From: WILLIAM WEBB <WWEBB1@email.usps.gov>E Subject: RE: US-NC Spanish Cobol VAX/VMS ACMS FMS Mailbox Programmer/+- Message-ID: <0033000069076648000002L082*@MHS>    =0ASpanish COBOL?a   DIVISION DE PROCEDIMIENTOp DIVISION DE DATOS[ DIVISION DE AMBIENTE DIVISION DE IDENTIFICACION   WWWebb     -----Original Message-----/ From: Info-VAX-Request@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNET:$ Sent: Friday, June 21, 2002 11:41 AMB To: Webb, William W Raleigh, NC; Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNETE Subject: RE: US-NC Spanish Cobol VAX/VMS ACMS FMS Mailbox Programmer/l    H You're right about that... Really, theres nothing wrong with Spanish..,=  B Heavens to Betsy, I have a Mexican sister-in-law, too..  Actually,F thinking again and not shooting off my keyboard, the requirement could3 be for chatting with a plant somewhere in Mexico....  E I retract my rant...  Hopefully I attempted to make people think, butH probably not..  	 Jim Agnews   Larry Kilgallen wrote: >sH > In article <3D132BB1.2119BD44@vcu.edu>, Jim Agnew <jpagnew@vcu.edu> w= rites:H > > I hate to pick a nit, but if you're in the U.S.A., you came to a co= untry H > > where English is the language.  If I move to Mexico, I'd *expect* t= o= > > learn Spanish... >=@ > So Spanish is an unusual skill (for Charlotte North Carolina). >-6 > What is wrong with listing it as a job requirement ? >w+ > Better Spanish than Microsoft Windows :-)r >o > > j1076366@cfl.rr.com wrote: > >>D > >> US-NC Spanish Cobol VAX/VMS ACMS FMS Mailbox Programmer/Analyst > >> > >> Charlotte North Carolina  > >>H > >> Senior Programmer/Analyst with extensive skills in Cobol, Alpha, a= ndC > >> DCL in a VAX, VMS environment. Prefer FMS ACMS experience. ThenH > >> environment is manufacturing. Program to program communication, dc= llE > >> scripting, mailbox programming. This individual should be a teambH > >> player to be able to be productive from day one. The individual wi= llH > >> help support the company's ongoing initiatives for new development= s>H > >> and upgrades. There is a potential for full time after the initial=  B > >> contract period. This position does not offer interviewing or > >> relocation reimbursement. > >>3 > >> ! Candidate must Speak and Write in Spanish  !.% > >>        * Local candidates only *n  > >>              * US citizen * > >> schiffkey@cfl.rr.com=   ------------------------------  + Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2002 09:29:35 -0700 (PDT) . From: Fabio Cardoso <fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br>E Subject: RE: US-NC Spanish Cobol VAX/VMS ACMS FMS Mailbox Programmer/g@ Message-ID: <20020621162935.13756.qmail@web20210.mail.yahoo.com>   Portuguese Cobol   DIVISAO DE PROCEDIMENTO, DIVISAO DE DADOS DIVISAO DE AMBIENTEt DIVISAO DE IDENTIFICACAO  1 As you see... WE DONT SPEAK SPANISH IN BRAZIL!!!!e  . It is the same to say that English is equal to	 Dutch ...v     Regardss   FC u/ --- WILLIAM WEBB <WWEBB1@email.usps.gov> wrote:i >  > Spanish COBOL? >  > DIVISION DE PROCEDIMIENTOo > DIVISION DE DATOSs > DIVISION DE AMBIENTE > DIVISION DE IDENTIFICACION >  > WWWebb >  >  > -----Original Message-----1 > From: Info-VAX-Request@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNETm& > Sent: Friday, June 21, 2002 11:41 AM" > To: Webb, William W Raleigh, NC;# > Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNETn3 > Subject: RE: US-NC Spanish Cobol VAX/VMS ACMS FMSg > Mailbox Programmer/m >  > 3 > You're right about that... Really, theres nothing2 > wrong with Spanish..,S3 > Heavens to Betsy, I have a Mexican sister-in-law,o > too..  Actually,6 > thinking again and not shooting off my keyboard, the > requirement couldn5 > be for chatting with a plant somewhere in Mexico...o > 5 > I retract my rant...  Hopefully I attempted to maker > people think, but- > probably not.. >  > Jim Agnewr >  > Larry Kilgallen wrote: > > 5 > > In article <3D132BB1.2119BD44@vcu.edu>, Jim AgnewR > <jpagnew@vcu.edu> writes:b0 > > > I hate to pick a nit, but if you're in the > U.S.A., you came to a countryt2 > > > where English is the language.  If I move to > Mexico, I'd *expect* tou > > > learn Spanish... > >o1 > > So Spanish is an unusual skill (for Charlotte  > North Carolina). > >r6 > > What is wrong with listing it as a job requirement > ?. > >a- > > Better Spanish than Microsoft Windows :-)o > >t  > > > j1076366@cfl.rr.com wrote: > > >>3 > > >> US-NC Spanish Cobol VAX/VMS ACMS FMS Mailbox> > Programmer/Analyst > > >> > > >> Charlotte North Carolinau > > >>6 > > >> Senior Programmer/Analyst with extensive skills > in Cobol, Alpha, and5 > > >> DCL in a VAX, VMS environment. Prefer FMS ACMSm > experience. Thef/ > > >> environment is manufacturing. Program to  > program communication, dcl6 > > >> scripting, mailbox programming. This individual > should be a team2 > > >> player to be able to be productive from day > one. The individual will5 > > >> help support the company's ongoing initiativeso > for new developments2 > > >> and upgrades. There is a potential for full > time after the initial4 > > >> contract period. This position does not offer > interviewing orl  > > >> relocation reimbursement. > > >>5 > > >> ! Candidate must Speak and Write in Spanish  !e' > > >>        * Local candidates only *d" > > >>              * US citizen * > > >> schiffkey@cfl.rr.com=     =====M ========================== Fbio dos Santos Cardoso OpenVMS System Manager Rio de Janeiro - Brazile fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br ==========================  2 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!?0 Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.comx   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2002 09:35:45 -0400N! From: Jim Agnew <jpagnew@vcu.edu>fL Subject: Re: US-NC Spanish Cobol VAX/VMS ACMS FMS Mailbox Programmer/Analyst' Message-ID: <3D132BB1.2119BD44@vcu.edu>f  H I hate to pick a nit, but if you're in the U.S.A., you came to a countryD where English is the language.  If I move to Mexico, I'd *expect* to learn Spanish...  F Grr...   Ray Bradbury hit political correctness right on the head with "Farenheit 451"o  A this just hit a peeve, and it's not related to any hate group, oroC anything. It's just logical...  Due to my hearing, I can't even gete) English that well sometimes.....!!!!  ;-D    Jim2   j1076366@cfl.rr.com wrote: > A > US-NC Spanish Cobol VAX/VMS ACMS FMS Mailbox Programmer/AnalystS >  > Charlotte North Carolina > F > Senior Programmer/Analyst with extensive skills in Cobol, Alpha, and@ > DCL in a VAX, VMS environment. Prefer FMS ACMS experience. TheE > environment is manufacturing. Program to program communication, dclrB > scripting, mailbox programming. This individual should be a teamF > player to be able to be productive from day one. The individual willE > help support the company's ongoing initiatives for new developments!D > and upgrades. There is a potential for full time after the initial? > contract period. This position does not offer interviewing orn > relocation reimbursement.m > 0 > ! Candidate must Speak and Write in Spanish  !" >        * Local candidates only * >              * US citizen *n > schiffkey@cfl.rr.com   ------------------------------    Date: 21 Jun 2002 09:17:37 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)sL Subject: Re: US-NC Spanish Cobol VAX/VMS ACMS FMS Mailbox Programmer/Analyst3 Message-ID: <h4o5fwZpmxep@eisner.encompasserve.org>r  K In article <3D132BB1.2119BD44@vcu.edu>, Jim Agnew <jpagnew@vcu.edu> writes: J > I hate to pick a nit, but if you're in the U.S.A., you came to a countryF > where English is the language.  If I move to Mexico, I'd *expect* to > learn Spanish...  > So Spanish is an unusual skill (for Charlotte North Carolina).  4 What is wrong with listing it as a job requirement ?  ) Better Spanish than Microsoft Windows :-)e   > j1076366@cfl.rr.com wrote: >> eB >> US-NC Spanish Cobol VAX/VMS ACMS FMS Mailbox Programmer/Analyst >> > >> Charlotte North Carolinar >>  G >> Senior Programmer/Analyst with extensive skills in Cobol, Alpha, andeA >> DCL in a VAX, VMS environment. Prefer FMS ACMS experience. TheuF >> environment is manufacturing. Program to program communication, dclC >> scripting, mailbox programming. This individual should be a teamuG >> player to be able to be productive from day one. The individual willhF >> help support the company's ongoing initiatives for new developmentsE >> and upgrades. There is a potential for full time after the initiali@ >> contract period. This position does not offer interviewing or >> relocation reimbursement. >> o1 >> ! Candidate must Speak and Write in Spanish  !n# >>        * Local candidates only *e >>              * US citizen * >> schiffkey@cfl.rr.como   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2002 14:41:43 +0000w2 From: John Eisenschmidt <jweisen@eisenschmidt.org>L Subject: Re: US-NC Spanish Cobol VAX/VMS ACMS FMS Mailbox Programmer/Analyst4 Message-ID: <20020621144143.B28110@eisenschmidt.org>   I have a coworker who speaks "Stupid" fluently (it's his first language). I know how rare they are, so if someone wants to offer him a job I'll try and learn to live without him.  N Unless the Voices are Mistaken, Larry Kilgallen (Kilgallen@SpamCop.net) Wrote:M > In article <3D132BB1.2119BD44@vcu.edu>, Jim Agnew <jpagnew@vcu.edu> writes:nL > > I hate to pick a nit, but if you're in the U.S.A., you came to a countryH > > where English is the language.  If I move to Mexico, I'd *expect* to > > learn Spanish... > @ > So Spanish is an unusual skill (for Charlotte North Carolina). > 6 > What is wrong with listing it as a job requirement ? > + > Better Spanish than Microsoft Windows :-)k >  > > j1076366@cfl.rr.com wrote: > >>  D > >> US-NC Spanish Cobol VAX/VMS ACMS FMS Mailbox Programmer/Analyst > >> i > >> Charlotte North Carolinaw > >> vI > >> Senior Programmer/Analyst with extensive skills in Cobol, Alpha, and-C > >> DCL in a VAX, VMS environment. Prefer FMS ACMS experience. The H > >> environment is manufacturing. Program to program communication, dclE > >> scripting, mailbox programming. This individual should be a teamoI > >> player to be able to be productive from day one. The individual willtH > >> help support the company's ongoing initiatives for new developmentsG > >> and upgrades. There is a potential for full time after the initial B > >> contract period. This position does not offer interviewing or > >> relocation reimbursement. > >> d3 > >> ! Candidate must Speak and Write in Spanish  !m% > >>        * Local candidates only *D  > >>              * US citizen * > >> schiffkey@cfl.rr.com    -- o/ John W. Eisenschmidt <jweisen@eisenschmidt.org>m6  Homepage URL    | http://www.eisenschmidt.org/jweisenM  GPG Public Key  | http://www.eisenschmidt.org/jweisen/misc/jeisenschmidt.asceD  GPG Fingerprint | 5F9B F916 5AD1 3295 CF99 BC1E 1F97 E6A3 37E3 BEF2  M  This mail is an attachment? Read http://www.jensbenecke.de/misc/outlook.html'   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2002 11:30:16 -0400i! From: Jim Agnew <jpagnew@vcu.edu>mL Subject: Re: US-NC Spanish Cobol VAX/VMS ACMS FMS Mailbox Programmer/Analyst' Message-ID: <3D134688.DE183FF1@vcu.edu>o  G You're right about that... Really, theres nothing wrong with Spanish..,lB Heavens to Betsy, I have a Mexican sister-in-law, too..  Actually,F thinking again and not shooting off my keyboard, the requirement could5 be for chatting with a plant somewhere in Mexico...  s  E I retract my rant...  Hopefully I attempted to make people think, butm probably not..  	 Jim Agnewe   Larry Kilgallen wrote: > M > In article <3D132BB1.2119BD44@vcu.edu>, Jim Agnew <jpagnew@vcu.edu> writes:0L > > I hate to pick a nit, but if you're in the U.S.A., you came to a countryH > > where English is the language.  If I move to Mexico, I'd *expect* to > > learn Spanish... > @ > So Spanish is an unusual skill (for Charlotte North Carolina). > 6 > What is wrong with listing it as a job requirement ? > + > Better Spanish than Microsoft Windows :-)  >  > > j1076366@cfl.rr.com wrote: > >>D > >> US-NC Spanish Cobol VAX/VMS ACMS FMS Mailbox Programmer/Analyst > >> > >> Charlotte North Carolinat > >>I > >> Senior Programmer/Analyst with extensive skills in Cobol, Alpha, andhC > >> DCL in a VAX, VMS environment. Prefer FMS ACMS experience. ThetH > >> environment is manufacturing. Program to program communication, dclE > >> scripting, mailbox programming. This individual should be a teameI > >> player to be able to be productive from day one. The individual willyH > >> help support the company's ongoing initiatives for new developmentsG > >> and upgrades. There is a potential for full time after the initial B > >> contract period. This position does not offer interviewing or > >> relocation reimbursement. > >>3 > >> ! Candidate must Speak and Write in Spanish  !=% > >>        * Local candidates only *=  > >>              * US citizen * > >> schiffkey@cfl.rr.comU   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2002 11:59:44 -040021 From: Michael Austin <maustin@firstdbasource.com>OL Subject: Re: US-NC Spanish Cobol VAX/VMS ACMS FMS Mailbox Programmer/Analyst2 Message-ID: <3D134D70.D3CCCA38@firstdbasource.com>   Larry Kilgallen wrote: > M > In article <3D132BB1.2119BD44@vcu.edu>, Jim Agnew <jpagnew@vcu.edu> writes:@L > > I hate to pick a nit, but if you're in the U.S.A., you came to a countryH > > where English is the language.  If I move to Mexico, I'd *expect* to > > learn Spanish... > @ > So Spanish is an unusual skill (for Charlotte North Carolina).  B Only if you want to order a burger at the local fast food chain...B Charlotte is the second fastest growing Spanish-speaking area only behind San Diego (IIRC).     > 6 > What is wrong with listing it as a job requirement ?  ? Nothing.  The individual must be able to communicate with plants@ managers/users South of the {Texas} border.  (I have had a briefA conversation with the recruiter - although I don't speak Spanish)    >    -- r Regards,  6 Michael Austin            OpenVMS User since June 19847 First DBA Source, Inc.    Registered Linux User #261163r7 Sr. Consultant            http://www.firstdbasource.com E                           http://www.firstdbasource.com/donation.htmlr/ 704-947-1089 (Office)     704-236-4377 (Mobile)q   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2002 09:29:38 -0400p* From: "Stanley F. Quayle" <stan@stanq.com>4 Subject: Using old Bookreader files with Windows BNU. Message-ID: <3D12F202.12710.D3B6E23@localhost>  F Sad to say, but I still my VAX C manuals, and have all the associated  Bookreader files for same.  D Now that I have the latest docset installed on my Win PC, how can I 3 add the Bookreader files so that I can access them?o    
 --Stan Quayleh! President, Quayle Consulting Inc.h  
 ----------G Stanley F. Quayle, P.E.   N8SQ   +1 614-868-1363   Fax: +1 614 868-1671i1 8572 North Spring Ct. NW, Pickerington, OH  43147a= Preferred address:  stan@stanq.com       http://www.stanq.com    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2002 10:16:47 -0400o* From: WILLIAM WEBB <WWEBB1@email.usps.gov>8 Subject: RE: Using old Bookreader files with Windows BNU- Message-ID: <0033000069052486000002L062*@MHS>n   =0AThere's MGBOOK, or BNU.   From the Esteemed FAQ:  	 Chapter 3 
 Documentationv  6 3.1 Where can I find online copies of OpenVMS manuals?H The HP OpenVMS and HP Layered Product documentation is copyrighted mate= rial.t  H HTML format on-line product documentation sets for specific HP OpenVMS = products are presently available at:n  # http://www.openvms.compaq.com:8000/<" http://www.openvms.compaq.com/doc/) http://www.openvms.compaq.com/commercial/r  H Documentation is offered on separately orderable CD-ROM media through a=  H subscription to the Consolidated On-Line Documentation (ConOLD) product=  (seedH Section 2.5.) ConOLD manuals are readable with BNU, a viewer that is su= ppliedH with the documentation distribution. BNU can display HTML, Bookreader, = andd documentation in other formats.a  E MGBOOK, a viewer for Bookreader-format documentation is available forpH character-cell terminals (eg. VTxxx) via the WKU VMS Freeware file serv=	 er -- sees" question Section 13.1 for details.  ( 3.2 What online information and websites   -----Original Message-----/ From: Info-VAX-Request@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNETB# Sent: Friday, June 21, 2002 9:35 AMCB To: Webb, William W Raleigh, NC; Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNET4 Subject: Using old Bookreader files with Windows BNU    E Sad to say, but I still my VAX C manuals, and have all the associatedI Bookreader files for same.  C Now that I have the latest docset installed on my Win PC, how can I.3 add the Bookreader files so that I can access them?M    
 --Stan Quayle ! President, Quayle Consulting Inc.m  
 ----------H Stanley F. Quayle, P.E.   N8SQ   +1 614-868-1363   Fax: +1 614 868-1671=  1 8572 North Spring Ct. NW, Pickerington, OH  43147r> Preferred address:  stan@stanq.com       http://www.stanq.com=   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2002 11:44:28 -0400,* From: "Stanley F. Quayle" <stan@stanq.com>8 Subject: RE: Using old Bookreader files with Windows BNU. Message-ID: <3D13119C.17675.DB6DF97@localhost>  @ > HTML format on-line product documentation sets for specific HP5 > OpenVMS products are presently available at:  [...]v  A But not VAX C.  Or VAX SCAN.  Or VAX BASIC.  Or VAX Fortran.  Or S! anything else ancient but useful.     I > Documentation is offered on separately orderable CD-ROM media through aeI > subscription to the Consolidated On-Line Documentation (ConOLD) producta  @ Right.  That's what I have, and have loaded the Windows version D thereof on my PC.  How do I hook my old Bookreader files (of VAX *)  into that product?  E The manual (which is on the CD, by the way) isn't especially clear.   F Surely, someone's already done it.  Providing a "cookbook" to the FAQ  would be a Good Thing.    
 --Stan Quayle=! President, Quayle Consulting Inc.n  
 ----------G Stanley F. Quayle, P.E.   N8SQ   +1 614-868-1363   Fax: +1 614 868-1671r1 8572 North Spring Ct. NW, Pickerington, OH  43147o= Preferred address:  stan@stanq.com       http://www.stanq.como   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2002 10:09:51 +0100u( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1>- Subject: Re: VMS Marketing Volunteers, ctd...e) Message-ID: <3D12ED5F.DBC8BC69@127.0.0.1>t   "Terry C. Shannon" wrote:  > F > So I was wondering. What would happen if I actually formed a limitedM > liability corporation (one with no assets) called VMS Marketing Volunteers,aL > LLC? The thought has entered my mind, but the legal ramifications might be > onerous indeed.- > K > One new Volunteer has enlisted and ordered her cards already ($8.95 totalaM > cost for two-week shipping). This could be the start of a tsunami that will  > engulf downstream marketing!  E OK, so if we set up this group, what is wrong with HP donating to ourC@ 'fund', money goes to ISV's to port applications, a squidgeon onG marketing, some toward educational programmes, why wouldn't this count?N  H We could then spend it on some marketing of our own. The only assistance= or permissions I'd expect are legalese around wording, use ofwG trademarks, but other than that, a free hand in being able to run primeN8 time TV ads and pages in the WSJ and other publications.  H This 3% extra growth that been seen, some money can come from that. We'dH measure ourselves by increase in sales, and grow our fund based on sales
 increases.   -- a? Regards, Nic Clews a.k.a. Mr. CP Charges, CSC Computer Sciences: nclews at csc dot coml   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2002 12:55:36 GMTt# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>n- Subject: Re: VMS Marketing Volunteers, ctd...aJ Message-ID: <cnFQ8.425602$t8_.322523@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>  B At this stage the worst that could happen is that you'd be out the incorporation fee.  L If some nameless and faceless large computer company wanted you to cease andI desist, you could hold a press conference attended by the WSJ, etc... andrJ explain in detail why your corporation was formed and what its goals were.D Then some enterprising young reporter would go to the aforementionedK nameless and faceless computer company to ask, "Why do these people have toI do what you should be doing?".  A It would make for an interesting story in print, don't you think?l    < "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com> wrote in message8 news:h2tQ8.113488$6m5.97987@rwcrnsc51.ops.asp.att.net...F > So I was wondering. What would happen if I actually formed a limitedA > liability corporation (one with no assets) called VMS Marketing  Volunteers,aL > LLC? The thought has entered my mind, but the legal ramifications might be > onerous indeed.e >vK > One new Volunteer has enlisted and ordered her cards already ($8.95 totalrH > cost for two-week shipping). This could be the start of a tsunami that will > engulf downstream marketing! >  > -- > Terry C. Shannon > Consultant and Publisher > Shannon Knows HPC $ > PLEASE NOTE MY *NEW* EMAIL ADDRESS > email: terryshannon@attbi.comi6 > Web (info on SKHPC):  www.openvms.org, www.tru64.org >  >o   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2002 14:58:11 GMT 1 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com>s- Subject: Re: VMS Marketing Volunteers, ctd... > Message-ID: <7aHQ8.101149$R61.35485@rwcrnsc52.ops.asp.att.net>  5 "Nic Clews" <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1> wrote in messaged# news:3D12ED5F.DBC8BC69@127.0.0.1...  > "Terry C. Shannon" wrote:y > >rH > > So I was wondering. What would happen if I actually formed a limitedC > > liability corporation (one with no assets) called VMS Marketingo Volunteers,=K > > LLC? The thought has entered my mind, but the legal ramifications mightY be > > onerous indeed.c > >aG > > One new Volunteer has enlisted and ordered her cards already ($8.95- total-J > > cost for two-week shipping). This could be the start of a tsunami that will  > > engulf downstream marketing! >CG > OK, so if we set up this group, what is wrong with HP donating to our1B > 'fund', money goes to ISV's to port applications, a squidgeon onI > marketing, some toward educational programmes, why wouldn't this count?c  K Nothing wrong, but HPQ seems to be pretty sensitive to such things. CertainrK people in the VMS marketing department were outraged when Ken Farmer set upd www.openvms.org.   >yJ > We could then spend it on some marketing of our own. The only assistance? > or permissions I'd expect are legalese around wording, use of I > trademarks, but other than that, a free hand in being able to run primeb: > time TV ads and pages in the WSJ and other publications.  I Slogging through the legalese would be like hacking through triple-canopy   jungle in Viet Nam. Only slower.  I Prime time ads cost a bunch of money. I'm thinking of a cheaper approach.cF But hey, I don't claim to have Better Answers to much of anything. But+ better to do something than nothing at all!d   >eJ > This 3% extra growth that been seen, some money can come from that. We'dJ > measure ourselves by increase in sales, and grow our fund based on sales > increases. >i > --A > Regards, Nic Clews a.k.a. Mr. CP Charges, CSC Computer Sciences  > nclews at csc dot comt   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2002 15:02:59 GMTl1 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com> - Subject: Re: VMS Marketing Volunteers, ctd...-? Message-ID: <DeHQ8.123926$6m5.107714@rwcrnsc51.ops.asp.att.net>m  . "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> wrote in messageD news:cnFQ8.425602$t8_.322523@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com...D > At this stage the worst that could happen is that you'd be out the > incorporation fee. >aJ > If some nameless and faceless large computer company wanted you to cease andcK > desist, you could hold a press conference attended by the WSJ, etc... and*L > explain in detail why your corporation was formed and what its goals were.F > Then some enterprising young reporter would go to the aforementionedJ > nameless and faceless computer company to ask, "Why do these people have to  > do what you should be doing?". >SC > It would make for an interesting story in print, don't you think?n  I Indeed I do. ;-} Although my goal (and presumably our goal) is to benefit  VMS, not make HPQ look foolish.n   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2002 15:38:56 GMTP# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> - Subject: Re: VMS Marketing Volunteers, ctd...uJ Message-ID: <kMHQ8.426225$t8_.106741@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>  < "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com> wrote in message9 news:DeHQ8.123926$6m5.107714@rwcrnsc51.ops.asp.att.net...e >a: > Although my goal (and presumably our goal) is to benefit! > VMS, not make HPQ look foolish.n  J That's totally within HP's own hands, don't you think? So far they haven't3 seemed to need any outside help in looking foolish.    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2002 12:35:35 -0500-$ From: "Art Beane" <beane@petris.com>- Subject: RE: VMS Marketing Volunteers, ctd...e7 Message-ID: <001a01c2194a$0cf62f10$352810ac@petris.com>V   -----Original Message-----7 From: Terry C. Shannon [mailto:terryshannon@attbi.com] m# Sent: Friday, June 21, 2002 9:58 AMa To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comh- Subject: Re: VMS Marketing Volunteers, ctd...o   <snip>F But hey, I don't claim to have Better Answers to much of anything. But+ better to do something than nothing at all!  </snip>n  H Once, when Grace Hopper came to visit, she told me "If what you're doingE isn't working, try anything else." I think it's a formal corollary toe; Hopper's Law ("better to ask forgiveness than permission").u' Unfortunately, I've lost my nanosecond.o   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2002 11:58:50 -0400 * From: WILLIAM WEBB <WWEBB1@email.usps.gov>E Subject: RE: VMS MARKETING VOLUNTEERS, LTD. Biz Card Example ( was Rei- Message-ID: <0033000069074800000002L002*@MHS>   / =0AUsing LLC is probably not a good idea unlessa* you actually have a legal entity in place.  6 Argh.  Eons ago, when dinosaurs roamed the earth and I> was in corporate trust banking [we ate legalese for breakfast-6 and frequently found mistakes that the lawyers made inA trust indentures, e.g.], I was also a Junior Achievement advisor.d  = We were strongly warned that the company names our kids chosee= could not contain things like INC L.P. or Corp. which implied , that a legal entity existed when it did not.  6 Substituting VLC for LLC might be appropriate, though. :^)a   WWWebb   -----Original Message-----/ From: Info-VAX-Request@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNETs$ Sent: Friday, June 21, 2002 11:16 AMB To: Webb, William W Raleigh, NC; Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNETE Subject: RE: VMS MARKETING VOLUNTEERS, LTD. Biz Card Example ( was Re      Dirk Munk wrote:    H > This bussiness card idea is great. I love to hand one to a Compaq/New= HP > sales F > rep, or some higher beast in the NewHP ranks. Just imagine the silly	 > look onw > their faces :-).H > However putting the U.S. flag on it is not such a very good idea in m= yC
 > opinion.C > There is human life outside the U.S, and there are even VMS userse
 > outside thekH > U.S ! Would you like Russian VMS users to put the Russian flag on it?=      H I thought about this concern, but after enough thought, yes, have the v= ariousH parts of the world represented.  That could be more effective.  It woul=	 d signifye2  that it's not just a few, but a worldwide effort.   > Ii > don'teA > mind if they would, but I don't know how Americans would react.h      This American sure doesn't mind.    H > Why not put the VMS shark on it, that is much more appropiate. If any= one  > can H > send me a good highres image of the shark I would love to give it a t= ry tot$ > design a bussiness card with that. >:   Dave=n   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2002 17:05:45 GMT0# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>uE Subject: Re: VMS MARKETING VOLUNTEERS, LTD. Biz Card Example ( was ReuJ Message-ID: <J1JQ8.426453$t8_.102777@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>  F It would have to be a real 'corporate' entity for reasons of liabilityK separation between the individuals. Preferably held in nominee name in somes9 jurisdiction that discourages legal action not disclosing J shareholder/officer names. Certain islands in sunny climates come to mind.      7 "WILLIAM WEBB" <WWEBB1@email.usps.gov> wrote in messagea' news:0033000069074800000002L002*@MHS...a  , Using LLC is probably not a good idea unless* you actually have a legal entity in place.  6 Argh.  Eons ago, when dinosaurs roamed the earth and I> was in corporate trust banking [we ate legalese for breakfast-6 and frequently found mistakes that the lawyers made inA trust indentures, e.g.], I was also a Junior Achievement advisor.n  = We were strongly warned that the company names our kids chose = could not contain things like INC L.P. or Corp. which impliedd, that a legal entity existed when it did not.  6 Substituting VLC for LLC might be appropriate, though. :^)p   WWWebb   -----Original Message-----/ From: Info-VAX-Request@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNET $ Sent: Friday, June 21, 2002 11:16 AMB To: Webb, William W Raleigh, NC; Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNETE Subject: RE: VMS MARKETING VOLUNTEERS, LTD. Biz Card Example ( was Re:     Dirk Munk wrote:    I > This bussiness card idea is great. I love to hand one to a Compaq/NewHPf > salesuF > rep, or some higher beast in the NewHP ranks. Just imagine the silly	 > look oni > their faces :-).H > However putting the U.S. flag on it is not such a very good idea in my
 > opinion.C > There is human life outside the U.S, and there are even VMS users*
 > outside the G > U.S ! Would you like Russian VMS users to put the Russian flag on it?t    E I thought about this concern, but after enough thought, yes, have theh varioushH parts of the world represented.  That could be more effective.  It would signify(2  that it's not just a few, but a worldwide effort.   > Iq > don't?A > mind if they would, but I don't know how Americans would react.s      This American sure doesn't mind.    J > Why not put the VMS shark on it, that is much more appropiate. If anyone > canSL > send me a good highres image of the shark I would love to give it a try to$ > design a bussiness card with that. >e   Dave=L   ------------------------------    Date: 21 Jun 2002 06:20:55 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)rQ Subject: Re: VMS MARKETING VOLUNTEERS, LTD. Biz Card Example ( was Re: A Proposal 3 Message-ID: <Om18BC32IkHI@eisner.encompasserve.org>0  u In article <3D12E288.8030407@cc8554-c.groni1.gr.nl.home.com>, Dirk Munk <munk@cc8554-c.groni1.gr.nl.home.com> writes:s  N > Why not put the VMS shark on it, that is much more appropiate. If anyone canL > send me a good highres image of the shark I would love to give it a try to$ > design a bussiness card with that.   Yes !!!    Shark !  Shark !  Shark !l   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2002 09:28:17 -0400l1 From: Michael Austin <maustin@firstdbasource.com> Q Subject: Re: VMS MARKETING VOLUNTEERS, LTD. Biz Card Example ( was Re: A Proposalt2 Message-ID: <3D1329F1.7216C21B@firstdbasource.com>   Larry Kilgallen wrote: > w > In article <3D12E288.8030407@cc8554-c.groni1.gr.nl.home.com>, Dirk Munk <munk@cc8554-c.groni1.gr.nl.home.com> writes:j > P > > Why not put the VMS shark on it, that is much more appropiate. If anyone canN > > send me a good highres image of the shark I would love to give it a try to& > > design a bussiness card with that. > 	 > Yes !!!i >  > Shark !  Shark !  Shark !e  E Send me a link to the shark and when I get the hard-copy card, I will  put that on the site as well.u   -- o Regards,  6 Michael Austin            OpenVMS User since June 19847 First DBA Source, Inc.    Registered Linux User #261163o7 Sr. Consultant            http://www.firstdbasource.commE                           http://www.firstdbasource.com/donation.htmli/ 704-947-1089 (Office)     704-236-4377 (Mobile)O   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2002 14:34:40 +0100s( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1>Q Subject: Re: VMS MARKETING VOLUNTEERS, LTD. Biz Card Example ( was Re: A Proposal=) Message-ID: <3D132B70.420B7939@127.0.0.1>    Michael Austin wrote:r >  > Larry Kilgallen wrote: > >ay > > In article <3D12E288.8030407@cc8554-c.groni1.gr.nl.home.com>, Dirk Munk <munk@cc8554-c.groni1.gr.nl.home.com> writes:e > >.R > > > Why not put the VMS shark on it, that is much more appropiate. If anyone canP > > > send me a good highres image of the shark I would love to give it a try to( > > > design a bussiness card with that. > >c > > Yes !!!N > >u > > Shark !  Shark !  Shark !e > G > Send me a link to the shark and when I get the hard-copy card, I willl > put that on the site as well.s  , Its on [at least] one of the freeware disks.   -- e? Regards, Nic Clews a.k.a. Mr. CP Charges, CSC Computer Sciencesn nclews at csc dot comt   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2002 09:47:23 -0400a1 From: Michael Austin <maustin@firstdbasource.com>8Q Subject: Re: VMS MARKETING VOLUNTEERS, LTD. Biz Card Example ( was Re: A Proposalt2 Message-ID: <3D132E6A.8227FFB6@firstdbasource.com>   Nic Clews wrote: >  > Michael Austin wrote:1 > >2 > > Larry Kilgallen wrote: > > > { > > > In article <3D12E288.8030407@cc8554-c.groni1.gr.nl.home.com>, Dirk Munk <munk@cc8554-c.groni1.gr.nl.home.com> writes:  > > >fT > > > > Why not put the VMS shark on it, that is much more appropiate. If anyone canR > > > > send me a good highres image of the shark I would love to give it a try to* > > > > design a bussiness card with that. > > > 
 > > > Yes !!!o > > >f > > > Shark !  Shark !  Shark !O > >iI > > Send me a link to the shark and when I get the hard-copy card, I willO! > > put that on the site as well.  > . > Its on [at least] one of the freeware disks. >  > --A > Regards, Nic Clews a.k.a. Mr. CP Charges, CSC Computer Sciencesd > nclews at csc dot com   G Since I don't have one of the freeware disks, and locating it online iseG next to impossible, if you could locate it and email it to me, it would  make life easier... :) d -- Q Regards,  6 Michael Austin            OpenVMS User since June 19847 First DBA Source, Inc.    Registered Linux User #261163r7 Sr. Consultant            http://www.firstdbasource.com E                           http://www.firstdbasource.com/donation.html-/ 704-947-1089 (Office)     704-236-4377 (Mobile)r   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2002 13:59:29 GMTe# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>BQ Subject: Re: VMS MARKETING VOLUNTEERS, LTD. Biz Card Example ( was Re: A ProposaluJ Message-ID: <5jGQ8.425797$t8_.378327@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>   www.openvms.comM      > "Michael Austin" <maustin@firstdbasource.com> wrote in message, news:3D1329F1.7216C21B@firstdbasource.com... > Larry Kilgallen wrote: > > K > > In article <3D12E288.8030407@cc8554-c.groni1.gr.nl.home.com>, Dirk Munk - <munk@cc8554-c.groni1.gr.nl.home.com> writes:  > >wG > > > Why not put the VMS shark on it, that is much more appropiate. Ifh
 anyone canI > > > send me a good highres image of the shark I would love to give it a  try to( > > > design a bussiness card with that. > >r > > Yes !!!u > >  > > Shark !  Shark !  Shark !p > G > Send me a link to the shark and when I get the hard-copy card, I wille > put that on the site as well., >e > --
 > Regards, > 8 > Michael Austin            OpenVMS User since June 19849 > First DBA Source, Inc.    Registered Linux User #261163 9 > Sr. Consultant            http://www.firstdbasource.comoG >                           http://www.firstdbasource.com/donation.htmla1 > 704-947-1089 (Office)     704-236-4377 (Mobile)s >k   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2002 15:00:14 GMT- From: lbohan@spamless..dbc.comQ Subject: Re: VMS MARKETING VOLUNTEERS, LTD. Biz Card Example ( was Re: A ProposalR8 Message-ID: <fud6hu8tge91f9afuhuh46udnvfqlsu7ie@4ax.com>  F On 21 Jun 2002 06:20:55 -0600, Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) wrote:  v >In article <3D12E288.8030407@cc8554-c.groni1.gr.nl.home.com>, Dirk Munk <munk@cc8554-c.groni1.gr.nl.home.com> writes: > O >> Why not put the VMS shark on it, that is much more appropiate. If anyone caneM >> send me a good highres image of the shark I would love to give it a try tos% >> design a bussiness card with that.p >e >Yes !!! >  >Shark !  Shark !  Shark !  : well,  John R. Wisniewski  once had a page linked off his 4 home page at Monta with all sorts of VMS graphics.    1 One can (sorta)  find it via the WayBack Machine,lG http://web.archive.org/web/20001009000718/www.montagar.com/jrw/jrw3.htmh  - anyway, following the OpenVMS Graphics link, .7 on the 2nd page was one of my favorite VMS shark logos,o( (an electronic/mechanical sort of shark)  / http://dbcbeta.dbc.com/LBohan/tn_vmsshark20.jpgs- http://208.240.76.50/LBohan/tn_vmsshark20.jpg   ' (wish I could find a full-sized copy;   -  I never did get round to asking John myself)a   t'was formerly at:7 http://www.montagar.com/jrw/DEC_openvms_w/Page0002.html 6 http://www.montagar.com/jrw/DEC_openvms/vmsshark20.gif   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2002 10:17:03 -0400r( From: David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>Q Subject: Re: VMS MARKETING VOLUNTEERS, LTD. Biz Card Example ( was Re: A Proposalp, Message-ID: <3D13355F.5070902@tsoft-inc.com>   Dirk Munk wrote:    J > This bussiness card idea is great. I love to hand one to a Compaq/NewHP  > salesmG > rep, or some higher beast in the NewHP ranks. Just imagine the silly 1	 > look on8 > their faces :-).I > However putting the U.S. flag on it is not such a very good idea in my 1
 > opinion.D > There is human life outside the U.S, and there are even VMS users 
 > outside theuG > U.S ! Would you like Russian VMS users to put the Russian flag on it?w    N I thought about this concern, but after enough thought, yes, have the various Q parts of the world represented.  That could be more effective.  It would signify n1 that it's not just a few, but a worldwide effort.a   > I  > don'toA > mind if they would, but I don't know how Americans would react.       This American sure doesn't mind.    K > Why not put the VMS shark on it, that is much more appropiate. If anyone i > canuL > send me a good highres image of the shark I would love to give it a try to$ > design a bussiness card with that. >    Dave   ------------------------------    Date: 21 Jun 2002 11:01:52 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) Q Subject: Re: VMS MARKETING VOLUNTEERS, LTD. Biz Card Example ( was Re: A Proposal 3 Message-ID: <SUj5h1QipYhy@eisner.encompasserve.org>.  G In article <3D1349B3.3060706@home.nl>, Dirk Munk <munk@home.nl> writes:n > Larry Kilgallen wrote:@ >>>Here's my submission, with apologies to all offended parties: >>> 8 >>>https://www.eisenschmidt.org/jweisen/misc/openvms.pdf >> r >> t? >> Like those of us on a VMS workstation, with no PDF support ?i > : > I'm using a VMS Alpha Workstation with pdf support .....  $ Which vendor provides that support ?   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2002 14:53:33 GMTe1 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com> Y Subject: Re: VMS MARKETING VOLUNTEERS, LTD. Biz Card Example ( was Re: A Proposal  for Ale? Message-ID: <N5HQ8.123840$6m5.107719@rwcrnsc51.ops.asp.att.net>a  B "Dirk Munk" <munk@cc8554-c.groni1.gr.nl.home.com> wrote in message7 news:3D12E288.8030407@cc8554-c.groni1.gr.nl.home.com...- > Michael Austin wrote:r >  > "Terry C. Shannon" wrote: >  >? >  >>"Adam Price" <adam+usenet@pappnase.co.uk> wrote in messagee4 >  >>news:aeqrfg$97kh3$1@ID-138239.news.dfncis.de... >  >>44 >  >>>I think I read somewhere that Terry C. Shannon <terryshannon@attbi.com> >  >>F >  >>wrote ... : >  >>0D >  >>>>I have a hastily-shot 325KB JPEG of my original VMS MARKETINGI >  >>>>VOLUNTEERS, LTD. biz card that I'd be glad to send to anyone who'deL >  >>>>like to take a look (a professional photographer I am not, but you'llK >  >>>>get the idea). VISTAPRINT.COM will print you up 250 of these puppies ; >  >>>>for about ten-twelve bucks. Money well spent, sez I.w >  >>>>h> >  >>>>Drop me a line if you'd like me to mail you the JPEG... >  >>>F >  >>>Why not see if Ken Farmer will put a copy up on www.openvms.org? >  >>>Adam Price >  >>bE >  >>I could have him do that, but he's on vaction for the next week!t >  > >  > >  >B >  > http://www.firstdbasource.com/  -- click on the VMS Marketing
 VolunteersH >  > link to see the "official?!?!?!???" Business card.  Maybe Terry can1 >  > contact VistaPrint and cut us a "bulk" deal.o >  > >  > Blatent Advert:L >  > And if you are in the market for an Oracle(classic and Rdb) DBA/VMS SysK >  > Admin/VMS-or-Unix Web Admin - onsite or remote, let me know as well :)  >  > >mI > This bussiness card idea is great. I love to hand one to a Compaq/NewHPl salesmK > rep, or some higher beast in the NewHP ranks. Just imagine the silly looki on > their faces :-).H > However putting the U.S. flag on it is not such a very good idea in my opinion.K > There is human life outside the U.S, and there are even VMS users outside2 the I > U.S ! Would you like Russian VMS users to put the Russian flag on it? IS don'tiA > mind if they would, but I don't know how Americans would react.@   >sJ > Why not put the VMS shark on it, that is much more appropiate. If anyone can@L > send me a good highres image of the shark I would love to give it a try to$ > design a bussiness card with that.  K I put the American flag on it because I am an American. There are plenty ofaK other more neutral options. Unsure who owns the copyright to the shark, but ) it would be even more cool than the flag/e  C I am looking into this. I've always wanted to be the President of a K Corporation. Even though I wouldn't end up with a nice haircut like EckhardiK Pfeiffer or a Porsche Turbo Carrera 4 like GQ Bob. But so what? My hairline-< is starting to recede and I already have an ancient BMW! ;-}   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2002 10:23:36 +0200i5 From: Dirk Munk <munk@cc8554-c.groni1.gr.nl.home.com>0Y Subject: Re: VMS MARKETING VOLUNTEERS, LTD. Biz Card Example ( was Re: A Proposal  for Ale= Message-ID: <3D12E288.8030407@cc8554-c.groni1.gr.nl.home.com>t   Michael Austin wrote:r  > "Terry C. Shannon" wrote:  >=  >>"Adam Price" <adam+usenet@pappnase.co.uk> wrote in messagee2  >>news:aeqrfg$97kh3$1@ID-138239.news.dfncis.de...  >>AK  >>>I think I read somewhere that Terry C. Shannon <terryshannon@attbi.com>d  >>s  >>wrote ... :  >> B  >>>>I have a hastily-shot 325KB JPEG of my original VMS MARKETINGG  >>>>VOLUNTEERS, LTD. biz card that I'd be glad to send to anyone who'dtJ  >>>>like to take a look (a professional photographer I am not, but you'llI  >>>>get the idea). VISTAPRINT.COM will print you up 250 of these puppies 9  >>>>for about ten-twelve bucks. Money well spent, sez I.u  >>>>R<  >>>>Drop me a line if you'd like me to mail you the JPEG...  >>>D  >>>Why not see if Ken Farmer will put a copy up on www.openvms.org?  >>>Adam Price  >>=C  >>I could have him do that, but he's on vaction for the next week!i  >  >  >K  > http://www.firstdbasource.com/  -- click on the VMS Marketing VolunteerssF  > link to see the "official?!?!?!???" Business card.  Maybe Terry can/  > contact VistaPrint and cut us a "bulk" deal.   >  > Blatent Advert:J  > And if you are in the market for an Oracle(classic and Rdb) DBA/VMS SysI  > Admin/VMS-or-Unix Web Admin - onsite or remote, let me know as well :)   >  M This bussiness card idea is great. I love to hand one to a Compaq/NewHP sales L rep, or some higher beast in the NewHP ranks. Just imagine the silly look on their faces :-).O However putting the U.S. flag on it is not such a very good idea in my opinion. M There is human life outside the U.S, and there are even VMS users outside the M U.S ! Would you like Russian VMS users to put the Russian flag on it? I don't ? mind if they would, but I don't know how Americans would react.   L Why not put the VMS shark on it, that is much more appropiate. If anyone canJ send me a good highres image of the shark I would love to give it a try to" design a bussiness card with that.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2002 13:09:38 +0000d2 From: John Eisenschmidt <jweisen@eisenschmidt.org>Y Subject: Re: VMS MARKETING VOLUNTEERS, LTD. Biz Card Example ( was Re: A Proposal  for Alu4 Message-ID: <20020621130938.B31057@eisenschmidt.org>   I know someone said they had a JPG of the business card, but was a link to it posted and I missed it? Might be time to break out Photoshop and Indesign and troll around images.google.com for some VMS nostalgia.  V Unless the Voices are Mistaken, Dirk Munk (munk@cc8554-c.groni1.gr.nl.home.com) Wrote: > Michael Austin wrote:a >  > "Terry C. Shannon" wrote: >  >? >  >>"Adam Price" <adam+usenet@pappnase.co.uk> wrote in messaget4 >  >>news:aeqrfg$97kh3$1@ID-138239.news.dfncis.de... >  >>uM >  >>>I think I read somewhere that Terry C. Shannon <terryshannon@attbi.com>r >  >>h >  >>wrote ... : >  >>hD >  >>>>I have a hastily-shot 325KB JPEG of my original VMS MARKETINGI >  >>>>VOLUNTEERS, LTD. biz card that I'd be glad to send to anyone who'd.L >  >>>>like to take a look (a professional photographer I am not, but you'llK >  >>>>get the idea). VISTAPRINT.COM will print you up 250 of these puppies ; >  >>>>for about ten-twelve bucks. Money well spent, sez I.V >  >>>>I> >  >>>>Drop me a line if you'd like me to mail you the JPEG... >  >>>F >  >>>Why not see if Ken Farmer will put a copy up on www.openvms.org? >  >>>Adam Price >  >> E >  >>I could have him do that, but he's on vaction for the next week!i >  > >  > >  >M >  > http://www.firstdbasource.com/  -- click on the VMS Marketing Volunteers H >  > link to see the "official?!?!?!???" Business card.  Maybe Terry can1 >  > contact VistaPrint and cut us a "bulk" deal.n >  > >  > Blatent Advert:L >  > And if you are in the market for an Oracle(classic and Rdb) DBA/VMS SysK >  > Admin/VMS-or-Unix Web Admin - onsite or remote, let me know as well :)f >  > > O > This bussiness card idea is great. I love to hand one to a Compaq/NewHP sales N > rep, or some higher beast in the NewHP ranks. Just imagine the silly look on > their faces :-).Q > However putting the U.S. flag on it is not such a very good idea in my opinion.IO > There is human life outside the U.S, and there are even VMS users outside theeO > U.S ! Would you like Russian VMS users to put the Russian flag on it? I don't-A > mind if they would, but I don't know how Americans would react.e > N > Why not put the VMS shark on it, that is much more appropiate. If anyone canL > send me a good highres image of the shark I would love to give it a try to$ > design a bussiness card with that.   -- 5/ John W. Eisenschmidt <jweisen@eisenschmidt.org>46  Homepage URL    | http://www.eisenschmidt.org/jweisenM  GPG Public Key  | http://www.eisenschmidt.org/jweisen/misc/jeisenschmidt.aschD  GPG Fingerprint | 5F9B F916 5AD1 3295 CF99 BC1E 1F97 E6A3 37E3 BEF2  M  This mail is an attachment? Read http://www.jensbenecke.de/misc/outlook.html-   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2002 09:35:15 -0400e1 From: Michael Austin <maustin@firstdbasource.com>:Y Subject: Re: VMS MARKETING VOLUNTEERS, LTD. Biz Card Example ( was Re: A Proposal  for AlF2 Message-ID: <3D132B93.FDD971C9@firstdbasource.com>   John Eisenschmidt wrote: >  > I know someone said they had a JPG of the business card, but was a link to it posted and I missed it? Might be time to break out Photoshop and Indesign and troll around images.google.com for some VMS nostalgia. > X > Unless the Voices are Mistaken, Dirk Munk (munk@cc8554-c.groni1.gr.nl.home.com) Wrote: > > Michael Austin wrote:   > >  > "Terry C. Shannon" wrote: > >  >A > >  >>"Adam Price" <adam+usenet@pappnase.co.uk> wrote in message 6 > >  >>news:aeqrfg$97kh3$1@ID-138239.news.dfncis.de... > >  >>nO > >  >>>I think I read somewhere that Terry C. Shannon <terryshannon@attbi.com>o > >  >>s > >  >>wrote ... : > >  >>fF > >  >>>>I have a hastily-shot 325KB JPEG of my original VMS MARKETINGK > >  >>>>VOLUNTEERS, LTD. biz card that I'd be glad to send to anyone who'd-N > >  >>>>like to take a look (a professional photographer I am not, but you'llM > >  >>>>get the idea). VISTAPRINT.COM will print you up 250 of these puppiesa= > >  >>>>for about ten-twelve bucks. Money well spent, sez I.9	 > >  >>>> @ > >  >>>>Drop me a line if you'd like me to mail you the JPEG... > >  >>>H > >  >>>Why not see if Ken Farmer will put a copy up on www.openvms.org? > >  >>>Adam Price > >  >>rG > >  >>I could have him do that, but he's on vaction for the next week!p > >  > > >  > > >  >O > >  > http://www.firstdbasource.com/  -- click on the VMS Marketing Volunteers J > >  > link to see the "official?!?!?!???" Business card.  Maybe Terry can3 > >  > contact VistaPrint and cut us a "bulk" deal.h > >  > > >  > Blatent Advert:N > >  > And if you are in the market for an Oracle(classic and Rdb) DBA/VMS SysM > >  > Admin/VMS-or-Unix Web Admin - onsite or remote, let me know as well :)r > >  > > >cQ > > This bussiness card idea is great. I love to hand one to a Compaq/NewHP sales:P > > rep, or some higher beast in the NewHP ranks. Just imagine the silly look on > > their faces :-).S > > However putting the U.S. flag on it is not such a very good idea in my opinion.sQ > > There is human life outside the U.S, and there are even VMS users outside thelQ > > U.S ! Would you like Russian VMS users to put the Russian flag on it? I don'toC > > mind if they would, but I don't know how Americans would react.  > > P > > Why not put the VMS shark on it, that is much more appropiate. If anyone canN > > send me a good highres image of the shark I would love to give it a try to& > > design a bussiness card with that. >  > --1 > John W. Eisenschmidt <jweisen@eisenschmidt.org> 8 >  Homepage URL    | http://www.eisenschmidt.org/jweisenO >  GPG Public Key  | http://www.eisenschmidt.org/jweisen/misc/jeisenschmidt.ascnF >  GPG Fingerprint | 5F9B F916 5AD1 3295 CF99 BC1E 1F97 E6A3 37E3 BEF2 > O >  This mail is an attachment? Read http://www.jensbenecke.de/misc/outlook.html'   What was wrong with:>  http://www.firstdbasource.com/  -- click on the VMS Marketing
 Volunteers5  link to see the "official?!?!?!???" Business card.      ???? -- e Regards,  6 Michael Austin            OpenVMS User since June 19847 First DBA Source, Inc.    Registered Linux User #261163r7 Sr. Consultant            http://www.firstdbasource.com E                           http://www.firstdbasource.com/donation.html0/ 704-947-1089 (Office)     704-236-4377 (Mobile)    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2002 09:38:07 -0400m! From: Jim Agnew <jpagnew@vcu.edu>uY Subject: Re: VMS MARKETING VOLUNTEERS, LTD. Biz Card Example ( was Re: A Proposal  for AlD' Message-ID: <3D132C3F.718352F7@vcu.edu>s  H I have the Decus Albert, the VAX cheshire cat.  got it from someone here! on this group once upon a time...e   Jim3   John Eisenschmidt wrote: >  > I know someone said they had a JPG of the business card, but was a link to it posted and I missed it? Might be time to break out Photoshop and Indesign and troll around images.google.com for some VMS nostalgia. > X > Unless the Voices are Mistaken, Dirk Munk (munk@cc8554-c.groni1.gr.nl.home.com) Wrote: > > Michael Austin wrote:r  > >  > "Terry C. Shannon" wrote: > >  >A > >  >>"Adam Price" <adam+usenet@pappnase.co.uk> wrote in message 6 > >  >>news:aeqrfg$97kh3$1@ID-138239.news.dfncis.de... > >  >>IO > >  >>>I think I read somewhere that Terry C. Shannon <terryshannon@attbi.com>t > >  >>  > >  >>wrote ... : > >  >>9F > >  >>>>I have a hastily-shot 325KB JPEG of my original VMS MARKETINGK > >  >>>>VOLUNTEERS, LTD. biz card that I'd be glad to send to anyone who'd N > >  >>>>like to take a look (a professional photographer I am not, but you'llM > >  >>>>get the idea). VISTAPRINT.COM will print you up 250 of these puppies0= > >  >>>>for about ten-twelve bucks. Money well spent, sez I.V	 > >  >>>>G@ > >  >>>>Drop me a line if you'd like me to mail you the JPEG... > >  >>>H > >  >>>Why not see if Ken Farmer will put a copy up on www.openvms.org? > >  >>>Adam Price > >  >>iG > >  >>I could have him do that, but he's on vaction for the next week!o > >  > > >  > > >  >O > >  > http://www.firstdbasource.com/  -- click on the VMS Marketing Volunteers J > >  > link to see the "official?!?!?!???" Business card.  Maybe Terry can3 > >  > contact VistaPrint and cut us a "bulk" deal.d > >  > > >  > Blatent Advert:N > >  > And if you are in the market for an Oracle(classic and Rdb) DBA/VMS SysM > >  > Admin/VMS-or-Unix Web Admin - onsite or remote, let me know as well :)c > >  > > >aQ > > This bussiness card idea is great. I love to hand one to a Compaq/NewHP sales0P > > rep, or some higher beast in the NewHP ranks. Just imagine the silly look on > > their faces :-).S > > However putting the U.S. flag on it is not such a very good idea in my opinion.tQ > > There is human life outside the U.S, and there are even VMS users outside thehQ > > U.S ! Would you like Russian VMS users to put the Russian flag on it? I don'tsC > > mind if they would, but I don't know how Americans would react./ > >pP > > Why not put the VMS shark on it, that is much more appropiate. If anyone canN > > send me a good highres image of the shark I would love to give it a try to& > > design a bussiness card with that. >  > --1 > John W. Eisenschmidt <jweisen@eisenschmidt.org>s8 >  Homepage URL    | http://www.eisenschmidt.org/jweisenO >  GPG Public Key  | http://www.eisenschmidt.org/jweisen/misc/jeisenschmidt.asc F >  GPG Fingerprint | 5F9B F916 5AD1 3295 CF99 BC1E 1F97 E6A3 37E3 BEF2 > O >  This mail is an attachment? Read http://www.jensbenecke.de/misc/outlook.html    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2002 14:38:15 +0000r2 From: John Eisenschmidt <jweisen@eisenschmidt.org>Y Subject: Re: VMS MARKETING VOLUNTEERS, LTD. Biz Card Example ( was Re: A Proposal  for Alg4 Message-ID: <20020621143815.A28110@eisenschmidt.org>   Thanks.g   Sometimes I love Adobe. Photoshop and Indesign can sometimes be the best 20 minute mindless therapy one can get after a stressful morning of beating a terrible new accounting system into submission.  = Here's my submission, with apologies to all offended parties:   5 https://www.eisenschmidt.org/jweisen/misc/openvms.pdf,  R Unless the Voices are Mistaken, Michael Austin (maustin@firstdbasource.com) Wrote: > John Eisenschmidt wrote: > >  > > I know someone said they had a JPG of the business card, but was a link to it posted and I missed it? Might be time to break out Photoshop and Indesign and troll around images.google.com for some VMS nostalgia. > > Z > > Unless the Voices are Mistaken, Dirk Munk (munk@cc8554-c.groni1.gr.nl.home.com) Wrote: > > > Michael Austin wrote:7" > > >  > "Terry C. Shannon" wrote: > > >  >C > > >  >>"Adam Price" <adam+usenet@pappnase.co.uk> wrote in messageo8 > > >  >>news:aeqrfg$97kh3$1@ID-138239.news.dfncis.de...	 > > >  >>/Q > > >  >>>I think I read somewhere that Terry C. Shannon <terryshannon@attbi.com> 	 > > >  >>  > > >  >>wrote ... :	 > > >  >>tH > > >  >>>>I have a hastily-shot 325KB JPEG of my original VMS MARKETINGM > > >  >>>>VOLUNTEERS, LTD. biz card that I'd be glad to send to anyone who'drP > > >  >>>>like to take a look (a professional photographer I am not, but you'llO > > >  >>>>get the idea). VISTAPRINT.COM will print you up 250 of these puppies.? > > >  >>>>for about ten-twelve bucks. Money well spent, sez I.g > > >  >>>>oB > > >  >>>>Drop me a line if you'd like me to mail you the JPEG...
 > > >  >>>J > > >  >>>Why not see if Ken Farmer will put a copy up on www.openvms.org? > > >  >>>Adam Price	 > > >  >>oI > > >  >>I could have him do that, but he's on vaction for the next week!. > > >  > > > >  > > > >  >Q > > >  > http://www.firstdbasource.com/  -- click on the VMS Marketing Volunteers:L > > >  > link to see the "official?!?!?!???" Business card.  Maybe Terry can5 > > >  > contact VistaPrint and cut us a "bulk" deal.s > > >  > > > >  > Blatent Advert:P > > >  > And if you are in the market for an Oracle(classic and Rdb) DBA/VMS SysO > > >  > Admin/VMS-or-Unix Web Admin - onsite or remote, let me know as well :)t > > >  > > > >yS > > > This bussiness card idea is great. I love to hand one to a Compaq/NewHP saleseR > > > rep, or some higher beast in the NewHP ranks. Just imagine the silly look on > > > their faces :-).U > > > However putting the U.S. flag on it is not such a very good idea in my opinion. S > > > There is human life outside the U.S, and there are even VMS users outside theeS > > > U.S ! Would you like Russian VMS users to put the Russian flag on it? I don'tnE > > > mind if they would, but I don't know how Americans would react.  > > >dR > > > Why not put the VMS shark on it, that is much more appropiate. If anyone canP > > > send me a good highres image of the shark I would love to give it a try to( > > > design a bussiness card with that. > >  > > --3 > > John W. Eisenschmidt <jweisen@eisenschmidt.org>e: > >  Homepage URL    | http://www.eisenschmidt.org/jweisenQ > >  GPG Public Key  | http://www.eisenschmidt.org/jweisen/misc/jeisenschmidt.ascpH > >  GPG Fingerprint | 5F9B F916 5AD1 3295 CF99 BC1E 1F97 E6A3 37E3 BEF2 > > Q > >  This mail is an attachment? Read http://www.jensbenecke.de/misc/outlook.html  >  > What was wrong with:@ >  http://www.firstdbasource.com/  -- click on the VMS Marketing > Volunteers7 >  link to see the "official?!?!?!???" Business card.  @ >  > ???? > -- h
 > Regards, > 8 > Michael Austin            OpenVMS User since June 19849 > First DBA Source, Inc.    Registered Linux User #261163a9 > Sr. Consultant            http://www.firstdbasource.comrG >                           http://www.firstdbasource.com/donation.html 1 > 704-947-1089 (Office)     704-236-4377 (Mobile)    -- '/ John W. Eisenschmidt <jweisen@eisenschmidt.org>r6  Homepage URL    | http://www.eisenschmidt.org/jweisenM  GPG Public Key  | http://www.eisenschmidt.org/jweisen/misc/jeisenschmidt.asc D  GPG Fingerprint | 5F9B F916 5AD1 3295 CF99 BC1E 1F97 E6A3 37E3 BEF2  M  This mail is an attachment? Read http://www.jensbenecke.de/misc/outlook.html    ------------------------------    Date: 21 Jun 2002 10:30:21 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)(Y Subject: Re: VMS MARKETING VOLUNTEERS, LTD. Biz Card Example ( was Re: A Proposal  for Alt3 Message-ID: <hYbwRaWYDvKs@eisner.encompasserve.org>t  ? > Here's my submission, with apologies to all offended parties:g > 7 > https://www.eisenschmidt.org/jweisen/misc/openvms.pdf   < Like those of us on a VMS workstation, with no PDF support ?   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2002 15:55:32 +0000J2 From: John Eisenschmidt <jweisen@eisenschmidt.org>Y Subject: Re: VMS MARKETING VOLUNTEERS, LTD. Biz Card Example ( was Re: A Proposal  for Ali4 Message-ID: <20020621155532.C28110@eisenschmidt.org>  	 ::GASPS::I   No one bothered to port Ghostscipt to OpenVMS? I've been working in publishing so long I can't remember a world without Portable Doc Formatd  N Unless the Voices are Mistaken, Larry Kilgallen (Kilgallen@SpamCop.net) Wrote:A > > Here's my submission, with apologies to all offended parties:i > > 9 > > https://www.eisenschmidt.org/jweisen/misc/openvms.pdf> > > > Like those of us on a VMS workstation, with no PDF support ?   --  / John W. Eisenschmidt <jweisen@eisenschmidt.org>a6  Homepage URL    | http://www.eisenschmidt.org/jweisenM  GPG Public Key  | http://www.eisenschmidt.org/jweisen/misc/jeisenschmidt.ascOD  GPG Fingerprint | 5F9B F916 5AD1 3295 CF99 BC1E 1F97 E6A3 37E3 BEF2  M  This mail is an attachment? Read http://www.jensbenecke.de/misc/outlook.html.   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2002 15:36:50 GMTn# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>lY Subject: Re: VMS MARKETING VOLUNTEERS, LTD. Biz Card Example ( was Re: A Proposal  for AldJ Message-ID: <mKHQ8.426221$t8_.120645@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>  L Haven't you heard....thanks to the efforts of VMS Marketing Volunteers, Ltd.2 OpenVMS is now on a growth curve of 30% per annum.  H Noting this, Adobe has asked for help in porting Acrobat and the rest of. their product suite to OpenVMS and DECwindows.   I only wish.    : "Larry Kilgallen" <Kilgallen@SpamCop.net> wrote in message- news:hYbwRaWYDvKs@eisner.encompasserve.org...-A > > Here's my submission, with apologies to all offended parties:s > >m9 > > https://www.eisenschmidt.org/jweisen/misc/openvms.pdfV >N> > Like those of us on a VMS workstation, with no PDF support ?   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2002 17:43:47 +0200y From: Dirk Munk <munk@home.nl>Y Subject: Re: VMS MARKETING VOLUNTEERS, LTD. Biz Card Example ( was Re: A Proposal  for Als& Message-ID: <3D1349B3.3060706@home.nl>   Larry Kilgallen wrote:? >>Here's my submission, with apologies to all offended parties:r >>7 >>https://www.eisenschmidt.org/jweisen/misc/openvms.pdf. >  > > > Like those of us on a VMS workstation, with no PDF support ?  8 I'm using a VMS Alpha Workstation with pdf support .....   ------------------------------    Date: 21 Jun 2002 11:02:23 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)eY Subject: Re: VMS MARKETING VOLUNTEERS, LTD. Biz Card Example ( was Re: A Proposal  for Al>3 Message-ID: <h3BgL0Kc0Wmg@eisner.encompasserve.org>o  i In article <20020621155532.C28110@eisenschmidt.org>, John Eisenschmidt <jweisen@eisenschmidt.org> writes:i > ::GASPS::I >  > No one bothered to port Ghostscipt to OpenVMS? I've been working in publishing so long I can't remember a world without Portable Doc Formatu   The word was _support_.J  P > Unless the Voices are Mistaken, Larry Kilgallen (Kilgallen@SpamCop.net) Wrote:B >> > Here's my submission, with apologies to all offended parties: >> > c: >> > https://www.eisenschmidt.org/jweisen/misc/openvms.pdf >> d? >> Like those of us on a VMS workstation, with no PDF support ?n   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2002 09:40:05 -0500a/ From: "Stuart, Ed" <Ed.Stuart@austinenergy.com> 5 Subject: RE: What kind of morons work at the FDA now?oT Message-ID: <92EFB80E551BD511B39500D0B7B0CDCC0642C55E@ohms.electric.ci.austin.tx.us>  L Right, the message was clear.  We will still sell you a VAX, but we'd preferD that you buy an Alpha and we'll give you enough time to see that our& performance meets what was advertised.   EdE **Please apply a generous amount of all the usual disclaimers here.**n     > -----Original Message-----1 > From: Richard Brodie [mailto:R.Brodie@rl.ac.uk]t( > Sent: Thursday, June 20, 2002 10:16 AM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.ComS7 > Subject: Re: What kind of morons work at the FDA now?  >  >  > < > "Stuart, Ed" <Ed.Stuart@austinenergy.com> wrote in message@ > news:92EFB80E551BD511B39500D0B7B0CDCC0642C553@ohms.electric.ci > .austin.tx.us... > 5 > > How long were new VAXes available after Alpha was < > > introduced?  Customers who were on the VAX platform had  > plenty of time toh@ > > transition to Alpha because VAX EOL was not announced until  > long after Alpha: > > was available, and had begun to establish credibility. > ? > True. On the other hand, processor development on VAX pretty 2 > much stopped dead.) > At least Alpha gets another generation.i >  >    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2002 15:05:44 GMT51 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com>o5 Subject: Re: What kind of morons work at the FDA now? ? Message-ID: <chHQ8.123964$6m5.106961@rwcrnsc51.ops.asp.att.net>2  / "Roger Ivie" <ivie@cc.usu.edu> wrote in messaged news:1tie6vrIGNkv@cc.usu.edu...i > In articleI <92EFB80E551BD511B39500D0B7B0CDCC0642C553@ohms.electric.ci.austin.tx.us>, 1 "Stuart, Ed" <Ed.Stuart@austinenergy.com> writes:l5 > > Maybe the announcement of the retirement of Alpha  > > was not handled correctly? >i= > Heck, the _introduction_ of Alpha wasn't handled correctly.e >uC > I was involved with the DECstation folks at the time, and it wentP	 something+# > like this from their perspective:g > I > - DEC announces "We'll have something really cool in a couple of years" C > - Customers start delaying DECstation purchases to wait for Alphao  > - Sales of DECstations decline7 > - Management decides no one wants DECstations anymorer > - DECstations are axed >>L > In that case, the follow-on was announced without retirment of what it was* > replacing and it was _still_ a disaster!  H You're missing part of the picture, the VAX part. The preannouncement ofC Alpha imposed a sales freeze on VAX systems. When Alpha was finallyMD announced, all it ran was Ultrix. It was some time before VMS became@ available, and even when it did, there wasn't much in the way of
 applications.l   ------------------------------   Date: 21 Jun 2002 15:47:41 GMT1 From: bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)f5 Subject: Re: What kind of morons work at the FDA now?:, Message-ID: <aevhqt$2set$1@info.cs.uofs.edu>  ? In article <chHQ8.123964$6m5.106961@rwcrnsc51.ops.asp.att.net>,B4  "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com> writes: |> nH |>                                                When Alpha was finally% |> announced, all it ran was Ultrix. i  E Ultrix??  Boy would I love to have a copy of that for my collection!!m   bill   -- wJ Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   .   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2002 09:39:03 +0100m* From: "Richard Brodie" <R.Brodie@rl.ac.uk>+ Subject: Re: Why does TCPIP SHOW HOST fail?i, Message-ID: <aeuomi$1c7g@newton.cc.rl.ac.uk>  b "Lawrence Bleau" <bleau@umtof.umd.edu> wrote in message news:aetggk$68t$1@grapevine.wam.umd.edu...  F > I just upgraded to TCPIP V5.1 ECO 1 on OpenVMS AXP V7.1-2.  What I'mG > seeing is a problem that existed before the upgrade (we were on TCPIP D > V5.0A), and affects the way in which we set out SMTP spam filters.  O I don't see it on ECO 4, and it matches fairly well with one of the bugs in thegN release notes. If I really couldn't upgrade (and had no PVS) then I might takeO the relevant shared libraries out of the ECO kit and do something creative with2 them. It would be ugly though.   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2002 15:01:06 GMTw. From: "Jason Fountain" <Jason.Fountain@hp.com>+ Subject: Re: Why does TCPIP SHOW HOST fail?e2 Message-ID: <ScHQ8.19$oN2.135300@news.cpqcorp.net>  D This problem has been fixed by engineering.  The solution appears in% V5.1eco4 and will appear in V5.3eco1.L  F The problem as we found concerns delegating on a non-byte boundary andK having the lookup results returned as CNAME followed by its associated PTR.0   -ja0   --  ? Jason.Fountain@hp.com,  TCP/IP Services for OpenVMS Engineering    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2002 09:56:20 +0100uU From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <andrew_nospam.harrison_remove_this@sun#.com>rE Subject: Re: Why porting apps to VMS isn't very helpful in most casesr0 Message-ID: <aeuq85$s6h$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   Atlant Schmidt wrote:    > Keith Parris wrote:n >  > i >>"Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com> wrote in message news:<DTbQ8.262316$cQ3.11915@sccrnsc01>...d >>B >>>VMS gross revenue actually amounts to no more than 10 times the >>>aforementioned $135M figute.m >>> D >>This sounds way too low compared with the other figures we've beenH >>given.  VMS revenues certainly haven't dropped off by 2/3 since we gotH >>the $4B figure.  Maybe if this figure omits the $2B figure in ServicesE >>revenue alone for VMS, it could be within the realm of possibility.c< >>----------------------------------------------------------< >>Keith Parris | parris <at> DECUServe <dot> decus <dot> org >> > 3 > But $4B isn't the "VMS" revenue. It's the revenuef5 > from all of the corporation's products and servicesi > that *INVOLVE* VMS.  > 2 > If VMS were to leave HP, it wouldn't get to take4 > all those revenues with it. For example, the Alpha2 > hardware sales revenues would remain behind with	 > Compaq.s > 4 > If VMS were to leave, it would have to live or die3 > purely on the profit from VMS. It'd actually be a 4 > pretty interesting exercise. Personally, I'd guess5 > it would amount to "Port or Die!", with the targetsw. > being either high-end x86, Power4, or SPARC,5 > with high-end x86 being the easiest if only becauset > of the "endianess" issues. >   8 Endian-ness would not be an issue for SPARC, it supports" both though Solaris is big endian.   Regardst Andrew Harrison!   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2002 18:07:19 +0200a' From: Brass Christof <welcome@spam.not>vE Subject: Re: Why porting apps to VMS isn't very helpful in most cases)( Message-ID: <3D134F37.BE03EE13@spam.not>   david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk wrote:n > T > In article <3D11911A.94B22C21@spam.not>, Brass Christof <welcome@spam.not> writes:" > >david20@alpha1.mdx.ac.uk wrote: > >>W > >> In article <3D01D48B.7D519CD2@spam.not>, Brass Christof <welcome@spam.not> writes: 5 > >> >Suggestions to port apps developed on other OSsg+ > >> >come up in this NG from time to time.l > >> >; > >> >To satisfy VMS users it is normally not sufficient to.; > >> >simply port apps while not really integrating it intoo7 > >> >VMS. A decent port would make use of specific VMSh8 > >> >features where appropriate like CDL with carefully; > >> >chosen parameter types (and qualifier names) that fit 8 > >> >in and like using RMS instead of flat/stream files: > >> >and with standard installation procedures like PCSI. > >> > > >>K > >> Come off it. 90+% of public domain software ported to VMS doesn't meet.' > >> your criteria for a "Decent port".eL > >> They still work and I am grateful for them. I think most VMS users wantK > >> to see the apps - they don't really care that much about niceties suchi) > >> as using the CDL, PCSI or VMSINSTAL.e > >i > >Why not use it under UNIX?- > >- > ( > Why is any software ported to any OS ?I > Why do people port software developed under solaris to AIX, Linux etc ?V > O > An operating system is just a big paperweight which uses a lot of electricity-& > if it doesn't have any applications.M > Some products which get ported are "nice to haves". Other are essential forsE > a modern OS. Others are essential for communication with other OSs.oI > Some fall into all three of these categories at diffent points in time.s > 9 > SSH for instance was a "nice to have" a few years back.pP > Since SSH use has become widespread on other platforms it is now required by a9 > lot of organisations for communication between systems.oP > Unless something changes in the near future SSH will become a feature required > for any modern OS. > D > SSH is far from unique the same process happened with web servers. > Q > Now you could say that certain applications don't need to be ported to VMS thateE > you can use them on other systems - your why not use it under UNIX.r > K > We have seen where this leads. This was exactly the argument which led to & > VMS being consigned to the high-end.B > Windows controls the desktop so why have any office apps on VMS. > $ > Why have any office apps on UNIX ?% > Everybody should be using Word.  :)S  B While I agree completely I think we should also regard the current situation.  C In an ideal situation I would like to see all good and necessary SW  ported >I in a decent way to VMS or even re-written for VMS. This is too much work  H given the fact that most programmers don't have a clue how to write good SW.   G With several necessary SW I strongly recommend to re-write it or adjust. it  A to fit in VMS. This is a lackmus test for the ability of an OS to 	 survive.  F TCP/IP, A powerful standard conforming Web server, SSH and some other H services might be vital and essential. The time, money and high quality G programmers should be available for that. The set of SW depends on the ,G target market of the OS. I also think that a decent JVM is part of this  set.  G While I would like to see office SW for VMS I don't think that it will  I help VMS most given the restricted capacity to do work for VMS SW. There n+ are too many programs and services to port.u  H Because most of the shops already have some UNIX boxes around porting a B few of those apps to VMS will not make the UNIX boxes superfluous H because there will always be some SW left that will unlikely be show up E on VMS. As long as the UNIX boxes are made redundant there is no big  A point in porting lost of low quality SW in a quick and dirty way.w  A There a simply some situations where SW is not required to be of  C high quality. It doesn't make sense to port that type of SW to VMS.     5 > >> >As long as the vast majority of programmers used4 > >> >crap languages like C or C++ the vast majority3 > >> >of SW will not reach a level of quality whichg" > >> >qualifies for use under VMS. > >>I > >> Rubbish. You can write bad or good code in any programming language.h > > K > >Not the point. Please read my post on RLC's post just a few minutes ago.d > >rK > >> As long as the software isn't available noone will consider using VMS.e > >rI > >And why should someone consider using VMS for using the same crappy SWo' > >that is already available with UNIX?i > >h > > > Because of its increased reliabilty, security and stability.F > Unlike Windows a bad user mode application doesn't crash the system.  @ I completely agree. If this quick and dirty migrated SW doesn't B interfere with these criteria and as long this SW doesn't shade a F bad light on VMS if it crashes all the time (not VMS but the process) E and as long as the users are happy with the badly organised commands sA and options of foreign commands I don't have any objections. But  D honestly I don't believe that this approach will cause the intended " effect of making VMS more popular.  H > As well as our Admin systems I support an Academic cluster here. I putK > all sorts of ported applications on to the Academic cluster, students can N > write their own applications in BASIC, C, C++, COBOL, FORTRAN, PASCAL, PERL,E > PYTHON etc  (the number who do is now much less than it was 5 yearse? > ago - but thats the same on the Unix systems we run as well). J > The number of times this has caused problems in the last 10 years can be- > counted on the fingers of one hand if that.nM > This cluster supports 25000+ accounts. It provides the mail storage for all0M > our students. It serves out the students personal web pages. It runs OracleVN > databases etc. Hence it's important that this system is up and running 24x7.  I I'm pretty happy to read that report. There is no doubt that this is the  H best what can happend. But I think that your environment is not average A and you and your co-workers are pretty skillful to avoid a lot ofo	 problems.P   -- o? According to the Quality Assurance Institute C/C++/ObjC, PERL, 1@ UNIX (incl. Linux) and Windows/XY are regarded as harmful. Java 0 is slow and the class library is badly designed.7 moc dot slupofni at ssarb - please reverse the sequence2   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2002 07:15:52 -0400p2 From: rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger) Subject: Re: XFC Status??mL Message-ID: <rdeininger-2106020715520001@11cust194.tnt1.nashua.nh.da.uu.net>  3 In article <mu06dLFoFWl9@eisner.encompasserve.org>,s3 newton_l@encompasserve.org (Lawrence Newton) wrote:s  F >Is there any word on extended file cache (XFC) in VMS V7.3 or V7.3-1./ >The patch was still on hold earlier this week.P >s1 >There was a rumor that said "it may never work".e   False rumor!  H According to the engineer leading the project, an XFC kit for VMS 7.3 isD on the way.  Dunno how long it will take.  V7.3-1 will have the same working XFC included.    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2002 13:31:31 +0100p* From: "Richard Brodie" <R.Brodie@rl.ac.uk> Subject: Re: XFC Status??-+ Message-ID: <aev6af$q2s@newton.cc.rl.ac.uk>r  ? "Robert Deininger" <rdeininger@mindspring.com> wrote in messageNF news:rdeininger-2106020715520001@11cust194.tnt1.nashua.nh.da.uu.net...  3 > >There was a rumor that said "it may never work".r >o > False rumor! >eJ > According to the engineer leading the project, an XFC kit for VMS 7.3 isF > on the way.  Dunno how long it will take.  V7.3-1 will have the same > working XFC included.t  Q It did seem a rather implausible rumour. The idea that there is a data corruption P problem that is unfixable but didn't get noticed during beta and QA testing doesS strain credulity somewhat. That it would be hard to identify and cure seems likely;rL and I certainly wouldn't want to be the one that signs off the bug as fixed.   ------------------------------    Date: 21 Jun 2002 06:07:50 -0700, From: bubbapig@hotmail.com (Jeffrey Cameron), Subject: Yet another PL/I <-> C question :-)= Message-ID: <b22333b7.0206210507.4be10f0b@posting.google.com>E  F I think I just about have the folds ironed out of my program right now< but one thing has popped up which I hvae trouble finding any literature on.  E The PL/I program for which I am writing a C module to replace certain.A aspects has in a particular procedure an on error statement whichsF catches, among other things, the pli$storage condition. This of courseB is triggered when an allocate statement blows up for one reason orB another. In this particular case it appears as though it is out ofE virtual memory (although I have no idea how to look for the secondary D error condition to make sure) as we work with very large matrices in memory.5  @ Anyway in the original program with a particular matrix an allocE statment fails and the on error statement is triggered and produces at@ nice little error message which is safely handled and allows theB program to continue, telling the user to try and display a smallerE slice. The problem arises when I plug my C++ module into the program.nE It and the module it replaces both allocate(d) memory for a matrix (aaB compact version). This works fine and dandy, the program then goesD back to the PL/I code where it tries to allocate another large chunkC of memory and here is where the program fails. The difference being0= that the version with the C module exits with the PLI-STORAGE C condition (apparently missing the on error handler for some reason) 7 and the PL/I version exits nicely by using the handler.i  @ Why would the version with the C module not trigger the on errorD handler present in the PL/I module, especially since it is PL/I code; (executing AFTER the C code has finished) that triggers thei, pli$storage condition in the first place!!??   Help!!   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2002 13:48:58 GMTh0 From: prune@ZAnkh-Morpork.mv.com (Paul Winalski)0 Subject: Re: Yet another PL/I <-> C question :-)9 Message-ID: <3d132f2c.1085809351@proxy.news.easynews.com>F  ? I suggest that you save yoruself a lot of grief and do all yourr: dynamic storage allocation in one language only--either doA all of it in PL/I or all of it in C.  In C, you can use malloc to > allocate the memory.  malloc will return a null pointer if the: allocation fails.  You can then test for that in your code and take appropriate action.  E On 21 Jun 2002 06:07:50 -0700, bubbapig@hotmail.com (Jeffrey Cameron)h wrote:  G >I think I just about have the folds ironed out of my program right nowp= >but one thing has popped up which I hvae trouble finding anyt >literature on.i >iF >The PL/I program for which I am writing a C module to replace certainB >aspects has in a particular procedure an on error statement whichG >catches, among other things, the pli$storage condition. This of course3C >is triggered when an allocate statement blows up for one reason orsC >another. In this particular case it appears as though it is out ofcF >virtual memory (although I have no idea how to look for the secondaryE >error condition to make sure) as we work with very large matrices inh >memory. >tA >Anyway in the original program with a particular matrix an alloc F >statment fails and the on error statement is triggered and produces aA >nice little error message which is safely handled and allows theeC >program to continue, telling the user to try and display a smallerWF >slice. The problem arises when I plug my C++ module into the program.F >It and the module it replaces both allocate(d) memory for a matrix (aC >compact version). This works fine and dandy, the program then goesrE >back to the PL/I code where it tries to allocate another large chunkoD >of memory and here is where the program fails. The difference being> >that the version with the C module exits with the PLI-STORAGED >condition (apparently missing the on error handler for some reason)8 >and the PL/I version exits nicely by using the handler. >tA >Why would the version with the C module not trigger the on errortE >handler present in the PL/I module, especially since it is PL/I code-< >(executing AFTER the C code has finished) that triggers the- >pli$storage condition in the first place!!??W >  >Help!!o  
 ---------- Remove 'Z' to reply by email.q   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2002 06:54:36 -0700.# From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com>n0 Subject: RE: Yet another PL/I <-> C question :-)9 Message-ID: <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJICEKOFDAA.tom@kednos.com>n  A I think that is a good suggeation, and if you want the code to be  more reliable do it in PL/I.   >-----Original Message------8 >From: Paul Winalski [mailto:prune@ZAnkh-Morpork.mv.com]$ >Sent: Friday, June 21, 2002 6:49 AM >To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com1 >Subject: Re: Yet another PL/I <-> C question :-)| >c >t@ >I suggest that you save yoruself a lot of grief and do all your; >dynamic storage allocation in one language only--either do0B >all of it in PL/I or all of it in C.  In C, you can use malloc to? >allocate the memory.  malloc will return a null pointer if thec; >allocation fails.  You can then test for that in your code  >and take appropriate action.v >.F >On 21 Jun 2002 06:07:50 -0700, bubbapig@hotmail.com (Jeffrey Cameron) >wrote:h >IH >>I think I just about have the folds ironed out of my program right now> >>but one thing has popped up which I hvae trouble finding any >>literature on. >>G >>The PL/I program for which I am writing a C module to replace certaineC >>aspects has in a particular procedure an on error statement whichhH >>catches, among other things, the pli$storage condition. This of courseD >>is triggered when an allocate statement blows up for one reason orD >>another. In this particular case it appears as though it is out ofG >>virtual memory (although I have no idea how to look for the secondaryeF >>error condition to make sure) as we work with very large matrices in	 >>memory.  >>B >>Anyway in the original program with a particular matrix an allocG >>statment fails and the on error statement is triggered and produces anB >>nice little error message which is safely handled and allows theD >>program to continue, telling the user to try and display a smallerG >>slice. The problem arises when I plug my C++ module into the program. G >>It and the module it replaces both allocate(d) memory for a matrix (a D >>compact version). This works fine and dandy, the program then goesF >>back to the PL/I code where it tries to allocate another large chunkE >>of memory and here is where the program fails. The difference beingw? >>that the version with the C module exits with the PLI-STORAGEtE >>condition (apparently missing the on error handler for some reason)o9 >>and the PL/I version exits nicely by using the handler.> >>B >>Why would the version with the C module not trigger the on errorF >>handler present in the PL/I module, especially since it is PL/I code= >>(executing AFTER the C code has finished) that triggers thei. >>pli$storage condition in the first place!!?? >> >>Help!! >o >----------l >Remove 'Z' to reply by email. >y >---' >Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.-; >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).>@ >Version: 6.0.370 / Virus Database: 205 - Release Date: 6/5/2002 >  ---u& Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.: Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).? Version: 6.0.370 / Virus Database: 205 - Release Date: 6/5/2002    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2002 07:24:23 -0700i# From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com>l0 Subject: RE: Yet another PL/I <-> C question :-)9 Message-ID: <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIMELAFDAA.tom@kednos.com>g   >-----Original Message-----s4 >From: Jeffrey Cameron [mailto:bubbapig@hotmail.com]$ >Sent: Friday, June 21, 2002 6:08 AM >To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com- >Subject: Yet another PL/I <-> C question :-)t >" >iG >I think I just about have the folds ironed out of my program right nowp= >but one thing has popped up which I hvae trouble finding anyr >literature on.- >-F >The PL/I program for which I am writing a C module to replace certainB >aspects has in a particular procedure an on error statement whichG >catches, among other things, the pli$storage condition. This of courseoC >is triggered when an allocate statement blows up for one reason orBC >another. In this particular case it appears as though it is out of0F >virtual memory (although I have no idea how to look for the secondaryE >error condition to make sure) as we work with very large matrices inp >memory. >lA >Anyway in the original program with a particular matrix an alloc F >statment fails and the on error statement is triggered and produces aA >nice little error message which is safely handled and allows the.C >program to continue, telling the user to try and display a smalleraF >slice. The problem arises when I plug my C++ module into the program.F >It and the module it replaces both allocate(d) memory for a matrix (aC >compact version). This works fine and dandy, the program then goes.E >back to the PL/I code where it tries to allocate another large chunk D >of memory and here is where the program fails. The difference being> >that the version with the C module exits with the PLI-STORAGED >condition (apparently missing the on error handler for some reason)8 >and the PL/I version exits nicely by using the handler.  E The problem may be with the way  the C++ code interacts with signals.oE before returning control to the PL/I program, you may have to restore B the signal state to what the PL/I program had set up.  That is theI advantage of working in a high-level language, you don't have to reinventn the wheel with each program.  K But it sounds to me that you are fixing things that you broke, that weren't 	 broken.  o   >mA >Why would the version with the C module not trigger the on erroreE >handler present in the PL/I module, especially since it is PL/I codet< >(executing AFTER the C code has finished) that triggers the- >pli$storage condition in the first place!!??  >o >Help!!n >t >---' >Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.e; >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).t@ >Version: 6.0.370 / Virus Database: 205 - Release Date: 6/5/2002 >s ---r& Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.: Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).? Version: 6.0.370 / Virus Database: 205 - Release Date: 6/5/2002w   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2002 11:48:24 +0000x2 From: John Eisenschmidt <jweisen@eisenschmidt.org>: Subject: [OT] Register - HP to roll Tru64 tools into HP-UX4 Message-ID: <20020621114824.F13776@eisenschmidt.org>  ! Straight from the gossip's mouth:b  1 http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/3/25829.htmlk  /"Hewlett Packard Co will deliver the clustering and file systems extensions from Compaq's Tru64 Unix variant to its own HP-UX in 2004. The extensions will be delivered in the second version of HP's Unix operating system designed for both Intel Corp's Itanium 2 platform and HP's own PA-RISC processors."a   ..   "The arrival of Tru64's TruCluster clustering capabilities and journaling file system will come in 2004 with HP-UX 11i v3, to be followed by phase two of the self-healing and self-tuning functionality with HP-UX 11i v3 in 2005."   -- t/ John W. Eisenschmidt <jweisen@eisenschmidt.org>r6  Homepage URL    | http://www.eisenschmidt.org/jweisenM  GPG Public Key  | http://www.eisenschmidt.org/jweisen/misc/jeisenschmidt.asc D  GPG Fingerprint | 5F9B F916 5AD1 3295 CF99 BC1E 1F97 E6A3 37E3 BEF2  M  This mail is an attachment? Read http://www.jensbenecke.de/misc/outlook.htmlT   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2002 12:39:12 GMTh( From: "Jay E. Morris" <jem@epsilon3.com>+ Subject: Re: [OT] Why Software is So Bad...o+ Message-ID: <3D131E79.2020604@epsilon3.com>h   Larry Kilgallen wrote:a > In article <aeqjsb$gnn$1@info.cs.uofs.edu>, bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes:  > : >>In article <3d10bb69.925162212@proxy.news.easynews.com>,5 >> prune@ZAnkh-Morpork.mv.com (Paul Winalski) writes:  >>|> r >>|>  C >>|> The engineering technology exists to produce reliable softwareSH >>|> systems.  But it's so expensive and tedious to apply that it's onlyD >>|> used on critical projects such as the control computers for the >>|> Space Shuttle.u >> >>Your joking, right?? >  > 6 > http://www.fastcompany.com/online/06/writestuff.html  H It was much the same at the Air Force's Range Operations Control Center  at Cape Canaveral.   -- a
 Jay E. Morriso Epsilon 3 Productionsa jem@epsilon3.comD ANYA: I found one of those 24-hour places for coffee. Remember that F bookstore? Well they became one of those books-and-coffee places, and ? now they're just coffee. It's like evolution, only without the r getting-better part. -----------    ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2002.342 ************************