1 INFO-VAX	Sat, 22 Jun 2002	Volume 2002 : Issue 343       Contents: Re: Case sensitive identifiersP Comments on someone's broken news client (was: Re: My conversation with Linus ab DS20E Hardware ConfigurationC HPQ unhappy with user level VMS promotion ?, was: Re: VMS Marketing  java jni problem Re: java jni problem New VMS Marketing  Re: New VMS Marketing  RE: New VMS Marketing 3 Re: Reuters test - Itanium II blows away Sparky III 3 Re: Reuters test - Itanium II blows away Sparky III 3 Re: Reuters test - Itanium II blows away Sparky III ! Re: Sun/Slowaris future in doubt! ! RE: Sun/Slowaris future in doubt! ; Re: The VMS customer minute of the day: Paper Manufacturing ; RE: The VMS customer minute of the day: Paper Manufacturing < Re: US-NC Spanish Cobol VAX/VMS ACMS FMS Mailbox Programmer/C Re: US-NC Spanish Cobol VAX/VMS ACMS FMS Mailbox Programmer/Analyst C Re: US-NC Spanish Cobol VAX/VMS ACMS FMS Mailbox Programmer/Analyst $ Re: VMS Marketing Volunteers, ctd...$ Re: VMS Marketing Volunteers, ctd...$ Re: VMS Marketing Volunteers, ctd...$ Re: VMS Marketing Volunteers, ctd...$ Re: VMS Marketing Volunteers, ctd...$ Re: VMS Marketing Volunteers, ctd...$ RE: VMS Marketing Volunteers, ctd...H Re: VMS MARKETING VOLUNTEERS, LTD. Biz Card Example ( was Re: A Proposal5 Re: [OT] Register - HP to roll Tru64 tools into HP-UX   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------   Date: 21 Jun 2002 18:20:45 GMT1 From: bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) ' Subject: Re: Case sensitive identifiers , Message-ID: <aevqpt$319m$1@info.cs.uofs.edu>  , In article <aeu8fe01m38@enews4.newsguy.com>,/  "Frank Sapienza" <sapienza@noesys.com> writes:  |>   |> Your most recent comments: % |> > Trying to put this back on topic  |>  B |> I don't think we ever left the topic by any significant margin.  D It seemed to me that it became more a discussion of natural languageC and was loosing sight of the fact that sometimes communicating with A a computer is not done for the same purpose as communicating with  another human.   |>  & |> > nothing in Unix forces the use ofH |> > mixed-case for things like filenames.  They can all be in one case. |>  G |> Only partially correct.  As the first user to name a file, or as the O |> developer naming a command, I get to choose whether I create something using N |> lower-, upper-, or mixed-case letters and am not forced by Unix into either |> choice.    
 As I said.   N |>         However, anybody that comes after me and wants to use the same fileL |> or command is, in fact, forced by Unix to use the same letter case that I |> initially selected.  A And my mother named me William when I was born and if you want to A talk to me you have to use that name.  James won't work.  Neither A will Bob.  Of course, I can be called my a nickname, which is why B people call me Bill.  I picked it though and if someone else triesB to assign a different name to me, I don't have to accept it.  UnixB is more forgiving.  I can rename the commands if I don't like themD and, to a certain extent, I can even rename files.  So, I guess Unix? doesn't really "force" me to use the same letter case initially @ selected.  At least it doesn't force it very well.  For the sakeA of this discussion we will ignore the potential inter-human comm- F unication problems that using these "nicknames" are likely to produce.   |>  G |> > So, if it is un-natural and 99.9% of the world knows this then wny 9 |> > don't users, particularly new users, stop doing it??  |>   |> Why don't you tell us?   E I can't tell you.  because I don't think it is un-natural and I don't D personally believe that any significant number of computer users do.H I'm from the other camp, remember.  I think mix-case is not only naturalF but in some cases usefull.  Why else did ASCII decicde on having upperC and lower case when they could have used all those bit patterns for  something more useful.   H |>                        When you were a new Unix user, why did you use8 |> mixed-case file names instead of all the same case.    B I usually use mixed-case filenames to force the collating sequenceE of directory listings to make it easier for me to find more important  files at a glance.  K .                                                       Or, did you not use G |> mixed-case until after you had developed some experience with Unix?    F I can't really remember that far back (at my age, sometimes it's toughD remembering what I had for breakfast) but I sure don't remember everC making a conscious decision to start using mixed-case so I assume I ! likely did it from the beginning.    N |>                                                                     I wouldK |> wager that most new Unix users actually use lower-case most of the time,  |> when they have the choice,   D Define "most of the time".  I just did a quick scan of users webpageB directories (because they are world readable) on our webserver andC found more than 40% of the files they contain are mixed case.  This D is a sampling of everyone from >20 year Professors to Freshman.  Not? scientific, but a reasonable cross-section for the sake of this  discussion, I would think.  I |>                            because all the commands I can remember are / |> required to be typed in lower case as well.    B A quick look at the "bin" directories shows that isn't really trueB any more either.  Remember, however, Unix was at first effectivelyB mono-case as the first interfaces were teletypes which didn't haveC two cases.  My first dial-up terminal was a PortaCom-110.  A single C case terminal with a built in 110 baud accoustic coupler modem,  By B the way, this first interface had a lot to do with the curtness ofB the command set.  But as far as case goes, if mono was better, whyD did eeryone start using mixed-case when terminals capable of it cameC into common use?  Or, taking it even further, why did anyone bother , making terminals that supported both cases??   N |>                                             I'd also bet that most new UnixL |> users curse the first few times they forget to disable Caps Lock and type= |> LS  instead of  ls  and then mumble, "why does it matter?"   D Well, I've cursed the caps-lock key, but never the command set.  ButB then, I usuallyt have hit accidentaqlly because someone was stupidE enough to put it right next to a letter as common as the "a".  As for D myself, I never understood the purpose of a caps-lock key on a type-= writter and i sure don't see the purpose of it on a computer.    |>  H |> I'd doubt that the reason you started using mixed-case file names wasD |> because you thought it more closely resembled a natural language.  E Your right, I don't really believe that natural language has anything I to do with talking to a computer whose natural language consists entirely  of ones and zeroes.    H |>                                                                   YouL |> probably started using mixed-case file names because you either a) had toM |> refer to an existing file that was created using mixed-case letters, or b) O |> thought that  myInvoiceFile.dat  was easier to read than  myinvoicefile.dat.   D Not likely a., but b. is a good candidate.  I find mised-case can beF used to make some files more noticable and easier to find than others.D And the purpose of the computer is to make things easier for people, not the other way around.   M |> Would you even care if Unix stored the file name in all upper-case as long F |> as it allowed you to refer to it in mixed-case (and displayed it in  |> mixed-case on an ls listing)?  E I wouldn't care what it did.  I would learn to use the tools provided E and strive to be as productive as possible,  I have used lots of OSes C that did not support mmixed-case and many that supported it in some B broken manner.  I find that the way Unix handles it meets my needs better than the others.  YMMV.   |>  N |> Last question: How many times have you forgotten how a mixed-case file nameI |> was formatted and had to do ls * to remind yourself of how it had been $ |> named?  Don't you hate that?  :-)  ; Considering the ease of typing 2 letters, I have no problem < with liberally using directory listings.  Of course, if I am? looking for a file whose name I am unsure of I usually remember ? enough of it to pass the output of ls to grep and make the list > even shorter.  And then, with the advent of GUI's I don't even$ have to type it, I just cut & paste.   bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2002 12:11:20 -0700 0 From: Mark Berryman <Mark.Berryman@Mvb.Saic.Com>Y Subject: Comments on someone's broken news client (was: Re: My conversation with Linus ab , Message-ID: <3D1317E8.75EE9179@Mvb.Saic.Com>   Paul Repacholi wrote:  > + > carl@gerg.tamu.edu (Carl Perkins) writes:  > ? > > So my own news client strips a leading dot from a line when G > > displaying the article, but includes all of them in the quoted text   > > when replying to an article. > F > I seem to have a vague memory that `.' as the first char of the line > in a message is RFC majik. > ( > > This behavior is rather sub-optimal. > ) > Ah, but it is _STANDARD_ sub-optimal...  >   2 No, it is not.  The news client is severly broken.  H To address some of the other replies that do not understand the protocolE and mentioned that they thought the design was broken, here is how it  works.  C The news protocol defines the transmission of a message as follows:   F A command is sent that basically means "I want the message, send it to me."  E A reply is sent that basically means "Ok, here it is" followed by the  message itself.   G The data the comprises the message is sent in the form of lines of data G that terminate in a <CR><LF> pair.  The message is terminated by a line E containing a single period so it would be a stream of data that looks  like the following:    line of message<CR><LF>  next line<CR><LF>  etc.<CR><LF>	 .<CR><LF>   D The protocol also defines how to handle the case where a line of theE message itself consists of a single period.  In this case the line is # sent with the period doubled, i.e.:   
 ..<CR><LF>  3 to distiguish it from the end-of-message indicator.   H Now, a properly written client of this protocol would recognize that anyD line consisting solely of two periods would need to be turned into aF data line consisting of only a single period.  No other translation ofE the data is supposed to take place.  Unfortunately, there have been a D number of brain-dead implementations the strip the leading period ofF *any* line that simply begins with a period, not just lines consistingD of exactly two periods.  The client in question appears to be one of them.   F The protocol is fine, it is the implementation that is broken.  HavingF read the RFC and implemented code according to it, I can tell you thatF anyone who gets the "doubled period" part of the description wrong hasD difficulty reading simple english.  It is very well described in the RFC.  
 Mark Berryman  Mark.Berryman@Mvb.Saic.Com   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2002 17:06:29 -0400 % From: "J.G. Peters" <jpeters@sct.com> % Subject: DS20E Hardware Configuration $ Message-ID: <pyMQ8.8$u36.113@client>  
 Greetings.  9 We recently purchased a new DS20E (667 with 1 GB memory). 6 The BA610 internal drive cage contains one 3R-A0585-AA= 18GB 10k disk drive for the system disk. The disk is run by a 1 3X-DEPVZ-VA "combo card" adapter. We have a 4314T 6 Storageworks tower containing twelve 3R-A0585-AA disks4 that will be connected via a 3X-KZPCA-AA adapter. We9 have a new external 40/80 DLT tape drive (146197-B22), to 7 be connected via another KZPCA adapter. We also secured < two KZPBA-CA adapters to support four existing tape drives -6 TLZ06 (4mm), two TSZ07s (reel) and TKZ9E (8mm). Here's> what we did when all the "stuff" arrived. We put the two KZPCAC adapters into slots three and four, connected the 4313 to the first ; and the DLT to the second. The two KZPBA adapters went into E slots five and six and are currently not connected to anything as the C tape drives are still in use on the 2100. The DEPVZ is in slot two, ? leaving only the "short card" (slot one) open. Fired up OpenVMS ? 7.3, which came "factory installed" with the necessary patches. < The system saw the Storageworks disks but not the DLT. TriedA switching them. Same thing - saw the disks but not the DLT. Tried B disconnecting the Storageworks but the DLT still isn't seen. Tried: connecting the DLT to each of the KZPBAs and they're seen.  > Questions: Do we have the adapters in the right slots for best/ performance? Why doesn't the KZPCA see the DLT?   ; Insight/suggestions will be greatly appreciated. Thank you.    Joe    ------------------------------    Date: 21 Jun 2002 14:45:09 -0600B From: clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP (Simon Clubley)L Subject: HPQ unhappy with user level VMS promotion ?, was: Re: VMS Marketing3 Message-ID: <xFniwQVqJfNP@eisner.encompasserve.org>   W In article <3D136C2D.9040505@tsoft-inc.com>, David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> writes:  > Terry C. Shannon wrote:  > N >> Nothing wrong, but HPQ seems to be pretty sensitive to such things. CertainN >> people in the VMS marketing department were outraged when Ken Farmer set up >> www.openvms.org.  > R > Yep, and when a certain someone got wind of some advocates actually planning on R > attempting to help by informing news organizations and such of the qualities of R > VMS, she wasn't too happy.  That's about when I lost the energy to do much more. >   J These two incidents above are appalling (at least if you are interested inF the future of VMS). They would seem to suggest that the allegations ofM "managed decline" for VMS are true; otherwise why would someone be so annoyed I by users promoting a product and helping to increase the market share for  that product ?  H "VMS: We users like it so much that we have to tell the world about it."I Any other vendor would be delighted to sell a product that inspired those  feelings in users.  J Dave, can you explain further precisely what was said by her, and were you$ actually _told_ not to promote VMS ?   Simon.   --  B Simon Clubley, clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP       + Microsoft: The Lada of the computing world.    ------------------------------    Date: 21 Jun 2002 12:44:07 -0700$ From: sammy_thumbs@yahoo.com (Chuck) Subject: java jni problem = Message-ID: <55c497a4.0206211144.64750311@posting.google.com>    Hello,  C I'm having intermittent problems with java using jni to call some c C code.  The c code uses sys$enq() to acquire locks.  On occaision it E fails to que the lock request.  I have other C programs that use this F same code and they very rarely show this error (once in 2 years) while> this java/jni program seems to have problems on a daily basis.  C Has anyone bumped into any similar issues?  I'm wondering if it's a 2 problem with the shared image or a java/jvm issue.   Some specs.... os OpenVMS V7.3  java version "1.3.0"% all c files compiled with /stand=vaxc  link command is ? $link/map/nodebug/notrace/share library_opt/opt, global_opt/opt E global_opt.opt file is created with scan_globals_for_option.com taken 7 from http://www5.compaq.com/java/faq/faq_ovms.html#4.1b   & Any info would be greatly appreciated.   Chuck    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2002 20:55:57 GMT ? From: Jim.Johnson@software-exploration.nospam.com (Jim Johnson)  Subject: Re: java jni problem 0 Message-ID: <3d13922b.52053949@news.demon.co.uk>  D Well, the first thought is why do the other C programs occassionally) fail?  Could it be due to a timing error?   F I ask because the JVM is highly multithreaded, and you will get calledE on multiple threads if you have more than one java object driving the  JNI interface.  A I'm assuming that you are getting to the ENQ call, and it is just E sometimes failing.  If that's the case, then it is almost certainly a C bug in your code, and the older intermittent errors were just earlyC	 symptoms.e   Fwiw,n Jim.    D On 21 Jun 2002 12:44:07 -0700, sammy_thumbs@yahoo.com (Chuck) wrote:   >Hello,  >uD >I'm having intermittent problems with java using jni to call some cD >code.  The c code uses sys$enq() to acquire locks.  On occaision itF >fails to que the lock request.  I have other C programs that use thisG >same code and they very rarely show this error (once in 2 years) while-? >this java/jni program seems to have problems on a daily basis.  >wD >Has anyone bumped into any similar issues?  I'm wondering if it's a3 >problem with the shared image or a java/jvm issue.t >d >Some specs....t >os OpenVMS V7.3 >java version "1.3.0"e& >all c files compiled with /stand=vaxc >link command is  @ >$link/map/nodebug/notrace/share library_opt/opt, global_opt/optF >global_opt.opt file is created with scan_globals_for_option.com taken8 >from http://www5.compaq.com/java/faq/faq_ovms.html#4.1b > ' >Any info would be greatly appreciated.. >  >Chuck   Jim Johnsont Software Exploration, Ltd.) (remove '.nospam' from the reply address)o   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2002 15:29:16 -0500o/ From: "Stuart, Ed" <Ed.Stuart@austinenergy.com>T Subject: New VMS MarketingT Message-ID: <92EFB80E551BD511B39500D0B7B0CDCC0642C570@ohms.electric.ci.austin.tx.us>  H HP has scheduled a presentation tour for OpenVMS in the US.  The tour isJ titled "to re-boot or not to re-boot   with OpenVMS there is no question."# You can get details on the tour at:s, <http://www.showexhibit.com/hp_openvmstour>    EdE **Please apply a generous amount of all the usual disclaimers here.**s   ------------------------------    Date: 21 Jun 2002 15:41:46 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)w Subject: Re: New VMS Marketing3 Message-ID: <9J9+NTT6TLcb@eisner.encompasserve.org>r   In article <92EFB80E551BD511B39500D0B7B0CDCC0642C570@ohms.electric.ci.austin.tx.us>, "Stuart, Ed" <Ed.Stuart@austinenergy.com> writes:J > HP has scheduled a presentation tour for OpenVMS in the US.  The tour isL > titled "to re-boot or not to re-boot   with OpenVMS there is no question."% > You can get details on the tour at:a. > <http://www.showexhibit.com/hp_openvmstour>    Hooray.   F I don't know what www.showexhibit.com is, and their home page does notE work from Netscape on VMS, but the OpenVMSTour pages work fine, and anF wee bit if the information therein convinces me it is for real (not to
 doubt Ed).   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2002 16:49:18 -0400e* From: WILLIAM WEBB <WWEBB1@email.usps.gov> Subject: RE: New VMS Marketing- Message-ID: <0033000069138322000002L022*@MHS>i   =0AJust registered. 
 Raleigh NC Thursday, July 18, 2002w    Hope to see some of y'all there.   WWWebb   -----Original Message-----/ From: Info-VAX-Request@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNETh# Sent: Friday, June 21, 2002 4:35 PMsB To: Webb, William W Raleigh, NC; Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNET Subject: New VMS Marketing    H HP has scheduled a presentation tour for OpenVMS in the US.  The tour i= seH titled "to re-boot or not to re-boot   with OpenVMS there is no questio= n."t# You can get details on the tour at:t+ <http://www.showexhibit.com/hp_openvmstour>i   EdF **Please apply a generous amount of all the usual disclaimers here.**=   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2002 11:44:14 -0700i' From: David Mathog <mathog@caltech.edu> < Subject: Re: Reuters test - Itanium II blows away Sparky III+ Message-ID: <3D1373FD.135C10BE@caltech.edu>    Bob Ceculski wrote:b  C > > Notice they don't say how much memory was in the Sun, what kindtA > > of disks either was using, or what types of network card werer
 > > employed..    (<SNIP>  G > what's wrong with that?  Sun and others ahve been doing the same withd > Alpha for years ...   : What's wrong is that the intent is to deceive and mislead C customers rather than to inform them. It is a disreputable practiceu? no matter who does it.  Would that there were more prosecutionsi> of these things as "false and misleading" advertising  becauseA that is what they are.  (In general - it's remotely possible that < this particular one was actually a fair test, but of course,> we have no way of knowing that and the lack of key information= is more consistent with FUD than with a valuable comparison.)e   Regards,   David Mathog mathog@caltech.edu   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2002 19:40:42 GMTd1 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com>i< Subject: Re: Reuters test - Itanium II blows away Sparky III. Message-ID: <_iLQ8.104077$nZ3.43529@rwcrnsc53>  # "Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy" > <andrew_nospam.harrison_remove_this@sun#.com> wrote in message* news:aeurv4$so5$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com... >  >> > Bob Ceculski wrote:i > 9 > > "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote in messageu= news:<HwmQ8.41739$_j6.2392907@bin3.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>...o > >b; > >>"Frank Sapienza" <sapienza@noesys.com> wrote in message ) > >>news:aesnih0rls@enews3.newsguy.com...n > >>H > >>>Well, this certainly goes into the "good new, bad news" department. > >>>nC > >>>Good if you happen to not like Sun systems and are looking for  ammunition.  > >>> K > >>Sounded like Terry in 'advocate' (as distinct from 'unbiased observer')sG > >>mode, since information about the Sun configuration that would have  allowed H > >>a more informed judgement to be made about the purported results was > >>conspicuously absent.e  I Doh, I used the information available at the time. If I had configurationtE info on the Sun systems I of course would have provided same. My paidc subscribers know this.  L Advocate? Yeah, right. HPQ's advocates are at Gartner Group. As for me, thisK week I divested all of my HPQ holdings (except for 50 shares to ensure thati& I can still get into annual meetings).   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2002 19:43:51 GMT 1 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com>>< Subject: Re: Reuters test - Itanium II blows away Sparky III. Message-ID: <XlLQ8.104093$nZ3.43782@rwcrnsc53>  4 "David Mathog" <mathog@caltech.edu> wrote in message% news:3D1373FD.135C10BE@caltech.edu...  > Bob Ceculski wrote:' >cE > > > Notice they don't say how much memory was in the Sun, what kindlC > > > of disks either was using, or what types of network card weret > > > employed.l >e
 >  (<SNIP> >tI > > what's wrong with that?  Sun and others ahve been doing the same with  > > Alpha for years ...  >e; > What's wrong is that the intent is to deceive and misleaddE > customers rather than to inform them. It is a disreputable practicecA > no matter who does it.  Would that there were more prosecutionso@ > of these things as "false and misleading" advertising  becauseC > that is what they are.  (In general - it's remotely possible thate> > this particular one was actually a fair test, but of course,@ > we have no way of knowing that and the lack of key information? > is more consistent with FUD than with a valuable comparison.)r >   K It's called BENCHMARKETEERING and most everyone does it. The most egregioustK example I ever saw was HP's initial response to TurboLaser. DEC had nothingiJ but an SAP benchmark (the epitome of opacity) to tout; HP responded a week1 later with a much better benchmark on a V-Series.o  L What HP neglected to point out is that DEC ran its benchmark on a standaloneL TLASER. HP used a V-Series and 46 application servers. Also raw disk insteadJ of a file system. Boy were they pissed off when I pointed out that fact (I( was working for Illuminata at the time).   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2002 18:31:22 +0100tU From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <andrew_nospam.harrison_remove_this@sun#.com> * Subject: Re: Sun/Slowaris future in doubt!0 Message-ID: <aevnr7$8gh$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   John Smith wrote:l  % > "Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy"e@ > <andrew_nospam.harrison_remove_this@sun#.com> wrote in message, > news:aevh58$6ed$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com... >  >>= >>Finally we get to time frames, the Alpha team has gone, thed: >>people working on EV8 are no longer doing so and even if< >>resurected tommorow a year would have to be added onto the >>delivery schedule. >> > N > Re-recruit the members of the EV8 team that left for AMD or elsewhere. OfferK > each member of the entire EV8 team $1MM bonus for working 16-20 hours/dayeM > for a year, and that missing year is made-up pretty fast. I bet that such a N > deal would be met with great enthusiasm by the EV8 team. And it would be the' > best money Intel/HP could ever spend.n > N > HP can say that it was those idiots at CPQ that screwed up in killing Alpha,% > and then fire Capellas 'for cause'.i >     , Still doesn't resolve the time travel issue.  3 Unless HP has a working prototype of a time machineM: then they have no way of recovering the 12 months allready lost to the EV8 development.  < In addition this isn't going to happen now, IA-64 won't fail= overnight if it does it will limp along for a couple of years(4 and then someone will realise that they are stuffed.  6 Of course the longer it limps the harder the decision.  5 So you are looking at a time line which would be more " likely to be a delay of 2-3 years.  : So as I said HP would need a time machine to make reviving& EV8 practical even if it was possible.  = Incedentally Intel are hardly going to want to lose the Alpha 6 engineers that they aquired to HP who would then be in: competition to Intel, recruiting the team members might be more difficult than you think.   Regardsl Andrew Harrisonh   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2002 13:25:44 -0500p/ From: "Stuart, Ed" <Ed.Stuart@austinenergy.com>f* Subject: RE: Sun/Slowaris future in doubt!T Message-ID: <92EFB80E551BD511B39500D0B7B0CDCC0642C567@ohms.electric.ci.austin.tx.us>  G What would that do to the price of an Alpha chip?  Remember, one of thesI reasons it was sold was that they were not able to move enough of them to>I bring the cost in line to compete in the market.  The production expensesdH were reduced when that was outsourced, but the development expenses wereJ still high.  The first line resulting from an expensive development effortL will either have a high price at the beginning to cover the high developmentJ cost, or a competitive price that the company is willing to take a loss on1 with hopes of making it up later in high sales.  t   EdE **Please apply a generous amount of all the usual disclaimers here.**s     > -----Original Message-----* > From: John Smith [mailto:a@nonymous.com]& > Sent: Friday, June 21, 2002 12:12 PM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comi, > Subject: Re: Sun/Slowaris future in doubt! >  >  > % > "Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy" @ > <andrew_nospam.harrison_remove_this@sun#.com> wrote in message, > news:aevh58$6ed$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com... > >, > >j? > > Finally we get to time frames, the Alpha team has gone, thet< > > people working on EV8 are no longer doing so and even if> > > resurected tommorow a year would have to be added onto the > > delivery schedule. > > > Re-recruit the members of the EV8 team that left for AMD or  > elsewhere. Offer< > each member of the entire EV8 team $1MM bonus for working  > 16-20 hours/daye> > for a year, and that missing year is made-up pretty fast. I  > bet that such a-? > deal would be met with great enthusiasm by the EV8 team. And   > it would be the ' > best money Intel/HP could ever spend.e > @ > HP can say that it was those idiots at CPQ that screwed up in  > killing Alpha,% > and then fire Capellas 'for cause'.n >  >    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2002 12:17:57 -0700e0 From: Mark Berryman <Mark.Berryman@Mvb.Saic.Com>D Subject: Re: The VMS customer minute of the day: Paper Manufacturing, Message-ID: <3D131975.237CFEBE@Mvb.Saic.Com>   James Gessling wrote:w > : > > care to elaborate for those of us on the East coast... > >oC > Here's all the dirt you would ever need on Oracle ripping off thet > state of california. > K > http://www.siliconvalley.com/mld/siliconvalley/business/companies/oracle/l >  > Jim"  G It was the California Government that specified the number of licenses,eH not Oracle.  Oracle simply quoted a price for the number requested.  The> fault lies with the current attitude at the California seat ofD government of "we don't need to tell anyone what we're doing and can. work in secret without any form of oversight".  G This particular contract was done as a no-bid contract and bypassed the  normal oversight procedures.   I know, I have to live with it.k  
 Mark Berryman. Mark.Berryman@Mvb.Saic.Com in sunny San Diego   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2002 15:32:07 -0400l* From: WILLIAM WEBB <WWEBB1@email.usps.gov>D Subject: RE: The VMS customer minute of the day: Paper Manufacturing- Message-ID: <0033000069122561000002L012*@MHS>y  5 =0AThey had to invest all that money they made in thei$ electric power market *somewhere*...   WWWebb   -----Original Message-----/ From: Info-VAX-Request@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNETb# Sent: Friday, June 21, 2002 3:24 PMUB To: Webb, William W Raleigh, NC; Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNETD Subject: RE: The VMS customer minute of the day: Paper Manufacturing     James Gessling wrote:< >3: > > care to elaborate for those of us on the East coast... > >rC > Here's all the dirt you would ever need on Oracle ripping off them > state of california. > H > http://www.siliconvalley.com/mld/siliconvalley/business/companies/ora= cle/ >K > Jime  H It was the California Government that specified the number of licenses,=  H not Oracle.  Oracle simply quoted a price for the number requested.  Th= ee> fault lies with the current attitude at the California seat ofD government of "we don't need to tell anyone what we're doing and can. work in secret without any form of oversight".  H This particular contract was done as a no-bid contract and bypassed the=   normal oversight procedures.   I know, I have to live with it.e  
 Mark Berrymano Mark.Berryman@Mvb.Saic.Com in sunny San Diego=t   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2002 15:17:49 -0400u! From: Jim Agnew <jpagnew@vcu.edu>oE Subject: Re: US-NC Spanish Cobol VAX/VMS ACMS FMS Mailbox Programmer/ ' Message-ID: <3D137BDD.FFF4CCE9@vcu.edu>i  E Had occasion to handle "carefully" a certain DECUS program to provide F "tail" functionality on a pdp-11... written in C in German, and inline5 in the code was the documentation, also, in German...F   j.   Fabio Cardoso wrote: >  > Portuguese Cobol >  > DIVISAO DE PROCEDIMENTO- > DIVISAO DE DADOS > DIVISAO DE AMBIENTEm > DIVISAO DE IDENTIFICACAO > 3 > As you see... WE DONT SPEAK SPANISH IN BRAZIL!!!!2 > 0 > It is the same to say that English is equal to > Dutch ...r > 	 > Regardss >  > FC1 > --- WILLIAM WEBB <WWEBB1@email.usps.gov> wrote:s > >q > > Spanish COBOL? > >o > > DIVISION DE PROCEDIMIENTOl > > DIVISION DE DATOSh > > DIVISION DE AMBIENTE > > DIVISION DE IDENTIFICACION > >o
 > > WWWebb > >e > >  > > -----Original Message-----3 > > From: Info-VAX-Request@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNETn( > > Sent: Friday, June 21, 2002 11:41 AM$ > > To: Webb, William W Raleigh, NC;% > > Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNETo5 > > Subject: RE: US-NC Spanish Cobol VAX/VMS ACMS FMSl > > Mailbox Programmer/s > >v > > 5 > > You're right about that... Really, theres nothingr > > wrong with Spanish.., 5 > > Heavens to Betsy, I have a Mexican sister-in-law,t > > too..  Actually,8 > > thinking again and not shooting off my keyboard, the > > requirement couldp7 > > be for chatting with a plant somewhere in Mexico...  > > 7 > > I retract my rant...  Hopefully I attempted to makee > > people think, but  > > probably not.. > >R
 > > Jim Agnewb > >  > > Larry Kilgallen wrote: > > >.7 > > > In article <3D132BB1.2119BD44@vcu.edu>, Jim Agnewe > > <jpagnew@vcu.edu> writes:l2 > > > > I hate to pick a nit, but if you're in the! > > U.S.A., you came to a country,4 > > > > where English is the language.  If I move to > > Mexico, I'd *expect* to  > > > > learn Spanish... > > >'3 > > > So Spanish is an unusual skill (for Charlottei > > North Carolina). > > >.8 > > > What is wrong with listing it as a job requirement > > ?  > > >n/ > > > Better Spanish than Microsoft Windows :-)  > > >s" > > > > j1076366@cfl.rr.com wrote: > > > >>5 > > > >> US-NC Spanish Cobol VAX/VMS ACMS FMS Mailboxo > > Programmer/Analyst > > > >>! > > > >> Charlotte North Carolina  > > > >>8 > > > >> Senior Programmer/Analyst with extensive skills > > in Cobol, Alpha, and7 > > > >> DCL in a VAX, VMS environment. Prefer FMS ACMSs > > experience. They1 > > > >> environment is manufacturing. Program tot > > program communication, dcl8 > > > >> scripting, mailbox programming. This individual > > should be a team4 > > > >> player to be able to be productive from day > > one. The individual will7 > > > >> help support the company's ongoing initiativese > > for new developments4 > > > >> and upgrades. There is a potential for full > > time after the initial6 > > > >> contract period. This position does not offer > > interviewing ori" > > > >> relocation reimbursement. > > > >>7 > > > >> ! Candidate must Speak and Write in Spanish  !a) > > > >>        * Local candidates only *o$ > > > >>              * US citizen * > > > >> schiffkey@cfl.rr.com= >  > =====- > ========================== > Fbio dos Santos Cardoso > OpenVMS System Manager > Rio de Janeiro - Brazil  > fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br > ========================== > 4 > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!?2 > Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup > http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.comr   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2002 15:14:28 -0400u! From: Jim Agnew <jpagnew@vcu.edu>/L Subject: Re: US-NC Spanish Cobol VAX/VMS ACMS FMS Mailbox Programmer/Analyst' Message-ID: <3D137B14.6E58D8C5@vcu.edu>-  G hhmm.. I didn't know that Charlotte, NC was so Spanish language-wise...L   j.   Michael Austin wrote:N >  > Larry Kilgallen wrote: > >NO > > In article <3D132BB1.2119BD44@vcu.edu>, Jim Agnew <jpagnew@vcu.edu> writes:CN > > > I hate to pick a nit, but if you're in the U.S.A., you came to a countryJ > > > where English is the language.  If I move to Mexico, I'd *expect* to > > > learn Spanish... > >oB > > So Spanish is an unusual skill (for Charlotte North Carolina). > D > Only if you want to order a burger at the local fast food chain...D > Charlotte is the second fastest growing Spanish-speaking area only > behind San Diego (IIRC). >  > >a8 > > What is wrong with listing it as a job requirement ? > A > Nothing.  The individual must be able to communicate with plantoB > managers/users South of the {Texas} border.  (I have had a briefC > conversation with the recruiter - although I don't speak Spanish): >  > >V >  > --
 > Regards, > 8 > Michael Austin            OpenVMS User since June 19849 > First DBA Source, Inc.    Registered Linux User #261163o9 > Sr. Consultant            http://www.firstdbasource.commG >                           http://www.firstdbasource.com/donation.html 1 > 704-947-1089 (Office)     704-236-4377 (Mobile)@   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2002 15:48:09 -0400a1 From: Michael Austin <maustin@firstdbasource.com> L Subject: Re: US-NC Spanish Cobol VAX/VMS ACMS FMS Mailbox Programmer/Analyst2 Message-ID: <3D1382F9.719E19B4@firstdbasource.com>   Jim Agnew wrote: > I > hhmm.. I didn't know that Charlotte, NC was so Spanish language-wise...i >  > j. >  > Michael Austin wrote:- > >- > > Larry Kilgallen wrote: > > >:Q > > > In article <3D132BB1.2119BD44@vcu.edu>, Jim Agnew <jpagnew@vcu.edu> writes: P > > > > I hate to pick a nit, but if you're in the U.S.A., you came to a countryL > > > > where English is the language.  If I move to Mexico, I'd *expect* to > > > > learn Spanish... > > >eD > > > So Spanish is an unusual skill (for Charlotte North Carolina). > >>F > > Only if you want to order a burger at the local fast food chain...F > > Charlotte is the second fastest growing Spanish-speaking area only > > behind San Diego (IIRC). > >r > > >o: > > > What is wrong with listing it as a job requirement ? > >iC > > Nothing.  The individual must be able to communicate with plantsD > > managers/users South of the {Texas} border.  (I have had a briefE > > conversation with the recruiter - although I don't speak Spanish)a > >  > > >u > >c > > -- > > Regards, > >n: > > Michael Austin            OpenVMS User since June 1984; > > First DBA Source, Inc.    Registered Linux User #261163 ; > > Sr. Consultant            http://www.firstdbasource.com-I > >                           http://www.firstdbasource.com/donation.htmlr3 > > 704-947-1089 (Office)     704-236-4377 (Mobile)n   True Story:a  A My wife and son were waiting for me at the airport (Pre-9/11 wheneG non-passengers could visit the restaurants etc) and ordered a burger atcD a well know fast-food establishment and the girl working the counterF (who also happened to be a manager) took 3-4 minutes explaining to theC cook that it was with "Ketchup-only", because the cook didn't speakn. English and the manager didn't speak Spanish.    -- y Regards,  6 Michael Austin            OpenVMS User since June 19847 First DBA Source, Inc.    Registered Linux User #261163,7 Sr. Consultant            http://www.firstdbasource.comoE                           http://www.firstdbasource.com/donation.htmlo/ 704-947-1089 (Office)     704-236-4377 (Mobile)'   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2002 11:53:00 -0700o' From: David Mathog <mathog@caltech.edu>i- Subject: Re: VMS Marketing Volunteers, ctd...d+ Message-ID: <3D13760C.72C31C66@caltech.edu>o   "Terry C. Shannon" wrote:i >  > M > Nothing wrong, but HPQ seems to be pretty sensitive to such things. CertainaM > people in the VMS marketing department were outraged when Ken Farmer set upQ > www.openvms.org.  @ Their stockholders should have been outraged that Compaq did not> own that address.  Not that such gross incompetence was at all1 out of the ordinary for Q management.  Terms like > "asleep at the switch" come to mind.  That HPQ has seen fit to4 keep pretty much the lot of them certainly bodes ill for HPQ's future.a   Regards,   David Mathog mathog@caltech.edu   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2002 14:10:53 -0400s( From: David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>- Subject: Re: VMS Marketing Volunteers, ctd...a, Message-ID: <3D136C2D.9040505@tsoft-inc.com>   Terry C. Shannon wrote:s    M > Nothing wrong, but HPQ seems to be pretty sensitive to such things. Certain M > people in the VMS marketing department were outraged when Ken Farmer set uph > www.openvms.org.    P Yep, and when a certain someone got wind of some advocates actually planning on P attempting to help by informing news organizations and such of the qualities of P VMS, she wasn't too happy.  That's about when I lost the energy to do much more.   Dave   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2002 21:16:10 +0200t- From: Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@Free.fr> - Subject: Re: VMS Marketing Volunteers, ctd...n' Message-ID: <3D137B78.17F47C10@Free.fr>    Art Beane wrote: > J > Once, when Grace Hopper came to visit, she told me "If what you're doingG > isn't working, try anything else." I think it's a formal corollary to'= > Hopper's Law ("better to ask forgiveness than permission").b) > Unfortunately, I've lost my nanosecond.H   Try to hop over the Pond :-)   D. -- r2   ------------------------------------------------2 MORANDI Consultants  http://Didier.Morandi.Free.fr0   19 chemin de la Butte, 31400 Toulouse, France.2 Tel.: +33 (0)6 7983 6418 - Fax: +33 (0)5 6154 19282 OpenVMS, APPLE, Computer Security, Migration plans2 --------------------------------------------------   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2002 20:36:22 GMTm1 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com>h- Subject: Re: VMS Marketing Volunteers, ctd...n? Message-ID: <a7MQ8.126950$6m5.108474@rwcrnsc51.ops.asp.att.net>u  . "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> wrote in messageD news:kMHQ8.426225$t8_.106741@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com... > > > "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com> wrote in message; > news:DeHQ8.123926$6m5.107714@rwcrnsc51.ops.asp.att.net...o > >h< > > Although my goal (and presumably our goal) is to benefit# > > VMS, not make HPQ look foolish.h > L > That's totally within HP's own hands, don't you think? So far they haven't5 > seemed to need any outside help in looking foolish.  >h  J Oh, I dunno. Seems to me they paid plenty to Gartner Group, who did yeomanC work in making the company look foolish (Probability Factor: 0.99).    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2002 20:37:08 GMTl1 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com> - Subject: Re: VMS Marketing Volunteers, ctd...Q> Message-ID: <U7MQ8.103710$R61.36034@rwcrnsc52.ops.asp.att.net>  5 "David Froble" <davef@tsoft-inc.com> wrote in message & news:3D136C2D.9040505@tsoft-inc.com... > Terry C. Shannon wrote:n >e >aG > > Nothing wrong, but HPQ seems to be pretty sensitive to such things.n CertainaL > > people in the VMS marketing department were outraged when Ken Farmer set up > > www.openvms.org. >p >oE > Yep, and when a certain someone got wind of some advocates actuallyu planning onrD > attempting to help by informing news organizations and such of the qualities ofL > VMS, she wasn't too happy.  That's about when I lost the energy to do much more.h >   3 Knowing whereof you speak, I can't blame you a bit..   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2002 20:40:18 GMTe1 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com>o- Subject: Re: VMS Marketing Volunteers, ctd... . Message-ID: <SaMQ8.104500$nZ3.43894@rwcrnsc53>  4 "David Mathog" <mathog@caltech.edu> wrote in message% news:3D13760C.72C31C66@caltech.edu...0 > "Terry C. Shannon" wrote:u > >u > >nG > > Nothing wrong, but HPQ seems to be pretty sensitive to such things.B Certain1L > > people in the VMS marketing department were outraged when Ken Farmer set up > > www.openvms.org. >pB > Their stockholders should have been outraged that Compaq did not > own that address.o  J No, the outrage was pretty closely confined to a marketeer or two. PerhapsL the marketeer(s) in question were miffed that the presence of an independentL third-party site cast a sharp light on their own unwillingness to step up to! the plate and do the right thing.t   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2002 17:17:27 -0400t* From: WILLIAM WEBB <WWEBB1@email.usps.gov>- Subject: RE: VMS Marketing Volunteers, ctd...s- Message-ID: <0033000069143242000002L022*@MHS>   2 =0ARick: How can you close me up? On what grounds?D Louis: I'm shocked - shocked - to find gambling is going on in here! Croupier: Your winnings, sir.  Louis: Oh, thank you very much.j     -----Original Message-----/ From: Info-VAX-Request@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNETu# Sent: Friday, June 21, 2002 3:14 PMeB To: Webb, William W Raleigh, NC; Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNET- Subject: RE: VMS Marketing Volunteers, ctd...t     Terry C. Shannon wrote:     H > Nothing wrong, but HPQ seems to be pretty sensitive to such things. C= ertainH > people in the VMS marketing department were outraged when Ken Farmer = set up > www.openvms.org.    H Yep, and when a certain someone got wind of some advocates actually pla= nning onH attempting to help by informing news organizations and such of the qual= ities ofH VMS, she wasn't too happy.  That's about when I lost the energy to do m=	 uch more.g Dave=t   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2002 11:28:26 -0700o5 From: "Kenneth H. Fairfield" <My.Full.Name@intel.com>iQ Subject: Re: VMS MARKETING VOLUNTEERS, LTD. Biz Card Example ( was Re: A Proposals) Message-ID: <3D13704A.D0942F3E@intel.com>-   Larry Kilgallen wrote:  w > In article <3D12E288.8030407@cc8554-c.groni1.gr.nl.home.com>, Dirk Munk <munk@cc8554-c.groni1.gr.nl.home.com> writes:r >nP > > Why not put the VMS shark on it, that is much more appropiate. If anyone canN > > send me a good highres image of the shark I would love to give it a try to& > > design a bussiness card with that. > 	 > Yes !!!  >t > Shark !  Shark !  Shark !   /     Go Shark, Go!  Go Shark, Go!  Go Shark, Go!s   --6 I don't speak for Intel, Intel doesn't speak for me...  
 Ken Fairfieldp! F20 Automation VMS System Supporto kenneth.h.fairfield#intel.com    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2002 19:45:07 GMTu1 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com>'> Subject: Re: [OT] Register - HP to roll Tru64 tools into HP-UX> Message-ID: <7nLQ8.103340$R61.35486@rwcrnsc52.ops.asp.att.net>  ? "John Eisenschmidt" <jweisen@eisenschmidt.org> wrote in messageu. news:20020621114824.F13776@eisenschmidt.org...# > Straight from the gossip's mouth:m >n3 > http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/3/25829.html  >eB > "Hewlett Packard Co will deliver the clustering and file systemsI extensions from Compaq's Tru64 Unix variant to its own HP-UX in 2004. TheuI extensions will be delivered in the second version of HP's Unix operatingsE system designed for both Intel Corp's Itanium 2 platform and HP's own. PA-RISC processors." >a > .. >-K > "The arrival of Tru64's TruCluster clustering capabilities and journaling,L file system will come in 2004 with HP-UX 11i v3, to be followed by phase twoF of the self-healing and self-tuning functionality with HP-UX 11i v3 in 2005."  K Gossip? That's right off the HPQ product roadmaps which have been availableoI since 7 May. If you went to the ITUG/DECUS Symposium in Lyon you'da heardf much more on the topic...i   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2002.343 ************************ > Jime  H It was the California Government that specified the number of licenses,=  H not Oracle.  Oracle simply quoted a price for the number requested.  Th= ee> fault lies witT    T    T    T    T    T    T    T    T    T    T    T    T    T    T    T    T    T    T    T    T    T    T    T    T    T    T    T    T    T    T    T    T    T    T    T    T    T    T    T    T    T    T    T    T    T    T    T    T    T    T    T    T    T    T    T    T    T    T    T    T    T    T    T     U    U    U    U    U    U    U    U    U    	U    
U    U    U    
U    U    U    U    U    U    U    U    U    U    U    U    U    U    U    U    U    U    U     U    !U    "U    #U    $U    %U    &U    'U    (U    )U    *U    +U    ,U    -U    .U    /U    0U    1U    2U    3U    4U    5U    6U    7U    8U    9U    :U    ;U    <U    =U    >U    ?U    @U    AU    BU    CU    DU    EU    FU    GU    HU    IU    JU    KU    LU    MU    NU    OU    PU    QU    RU    SU    TU    UU    VU    WU    XU    YU    ZU    [U    \U    ]U    ^U    _U    `U    aU    bU    cU    dU    eU    fU    gU    hU    iU    jU    kU    lU    mU    nU    oU    pU    qU    rU    sU    tU    uU    vU    wU    xU    yU    zU    {U    |U    }U    ~U    U    U    U    U    U    U    U    U    U    U    U    U    U    U    U    U    U    U    U    U    U    U    U    U    U    U    U    U    U    U    U    U    U    U    U    U    U    U    U    U    U    U    U    U    U    U    U    U    U    U    U    U    U    U    U    U    U    U    U    U    U    U    U    U    U    U    U    U    U    U    U    U    U    U    U    U    U    U    U    U    U    U    U    U    U    U    U    U    U    U    U    U    U    U    U    U    U    U    U    U    U    U    U    U    U    U    U    U    U    U    U    U    U    U    U    U    U    U    U    U    U    U    U    U    U    U    U    U    U    