1 INFO-VAX	Tue, 25 Jun 2002	Volume 2002 : Issue 346       Contents:* Re: "Alpha is dead" - So what?  VMS lives!* Re: "Alpha is dead" - So what?  VMS lives!- Re: ??== $print/error_notify=output file name - Re: ??== $print/error_notify=output file name - Re: ??== $print/error_notify=output file name  RE: A PL/I question ...  RE: A PL/I question ... 0 A possible shift in the status of VMS ar HP ????4 Re: A possible shift in the status of VMS ar HP ????4 Re: A possible shift in the status of VMS ar HP ????- Re: Another C and PL/I question - Descriptors 9 Re: Call or email hp ... they will answer your questions! 9 Re: Call or email hp ... they will answer your questions! 9 Re: Call or email hp ... they will answer your questions! 9 Re: Call or email hp ... they will answer your questions! 9 Re: Call or email hp ... they will answer your questions! 9 Re: Call or email hp ... they will answer your questions! 9 Re: Call or email hp ... they will answer your questions! 9 Re: Call or email hp ... they will answer your questions! 9 Re: Call or email hp ... they will answer your questions!  Re: Case sensitive identifiers Re: Case sensitive identifiers Re: Case sensitive identifiers Re: Case sensitive identifiers Re: Case sensitive identifiers Re: Case sensitive identifiers Re: Case sensitive identifiers Re: Case sensitive identifiers0 Re: CNET changed Itanium/Sun Cherrystone article0 Re: CNET changed Itanium/Sun Cherrystone article( Cob-F-eofon_acc error in a Cobol prog..., Re: Cob-F-eofon_acc error in a Cobol prog..., Re: Cob-F-eofon_acc error in a Cobol prog... Re: COE, ODS-5 and Spiralog. Re: COE, ODS-5 and Spiralog.P Re: Comments on someone's broken news client (was: Re: My conversation   with Li D'NIC network cards for LN17 Re: DCPS and HP4100  Re: DCPS and HP4100 & Re: DTSS$NTP_PROVIDER update available, Re: Euro symbol, DECterm, Hummingbird Exceed Re: GNV UNIX vs. POSIX VMS Re: GNV UNIX vs. POSIX VMS HSZ50 Firmware needed  Intel booting contest - Update$ Re: LLC for VMS Marketing Volunteers Re: New VMS Marketing  Re: New VMS Marketing  Re: New VMS Marketing  Re: New VMS Marketing  Re: New VMS Marketing  Re: New VMS Marketing  Re: New VMS Marketing  Re: New VMS Marketing  Re: New VMS Marketing  Re: New VMS Marketing  Re: New VMS Marketing  Re: New VMS Marketing  Re: New VMS Marketing  Re: New VMS Marketing  Re: Recent version of GNU GCC? Re: Recent version of GNU GCC? Re: Recent version of GNU GCC?3 Re: Reuters test - Itanium II blows away Sparky III 3 Re: Reuters test - Itanium II blows away Sparky III 3 Re: Reuters test - Itanium II blows away Sparky III 3 Re: Reuters test - Itanium II blows away Sparky III " Re: rooted devices and /TRANS=CONC Re: size of exe  Re: size of exe ! Re: Sun/Slowaris future in doubt! ; Re: The VMS customer minute of the day: Paper Manufacturing  Re: unix history< Re: US-NC Spanish Cobol VAX/VMS ACMS FMS Mailbox Programmer/< Re: US-NC Spanish Cobol VAX/VMS ACMS FMS Mailbox Programmer// Re: Using old Bookreader files with Windows BNU / Re: Using old Bookreader files with Windows BNU $ Re: VMS Marketing Volunteers, ctd...$ Re: VMS Marketing Volunteers, ctd...$ Re: VMS Marketing Volunteers, ctd...$ Re: VMS Marketing Volunteers, ctd...$ Re: VMS Marketing Volunteers, ctd...$ Re: VMS Marketing Volunteers, ctd... VMS port delayed!  Re: VMS port delayed!  Re: WASD startup problems ( Why does SMTP RBL filter appear to fail?, Re: Why does SMTP RBL filter appear to fail?, Re: Why does SMTP RBL filter appear to fail?, Re: Why does SMTP RBL filter appear to fail?< Re: Why porting apps to VMS isn't very helpful in most cases Re: xml and all that Re: xml and all that' Re: Yet another PL/I <-> C question :-) ' RE: Yet another PL/I <-> C question :-) 5 Re: [OT] Register - HP to roll Tru64 tools into HP-UX   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 22 Jun 2002 16:44:22 GMT 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> 3 Subject: Re: "Alpha is dead" - So what?  VMS lives! ' Message-ID: <3D14AD50.14B85628@fsi.net>    Bob Ceculski wrote:  > > > All I keep hearing from many in this group is that "Alpha is< > dead, Alpha is dead" ... I wonder if these people have one; > too many parrots around the house ... the bottom line is, @ > WHO CARES!  VMS LIVES!  If VMS is being ported to the itanium,= > which according to Terry's Inquirer article today is making = > performance gains on Sun and others, and it works well, who 9 > cares about Alpha?  IBM made a platform change with the > > System 3X line to AS400/OS400, and most people ran in system? > 3X mode even though that killed processor performance by 50%, B > and nobody said a thing.  What we care about is VMS being ported4 > to a viable, supported platform like an Intel one,  C That statement has no basis in reality. IPF is not yet commercially  viable.   
 > and that is A > happening, and we can all still run VMS for many years to come, @ > so who in the heck cares if Alpha is eol'd after EV79, because8 > we can still run VMS!  Does this make sense to anyone?  = No. There is still no "light at the end of the 'IPF tunnel'".    --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 22 Jun 2002 16:46:53 GMT 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> 3 Subject: Re: "Alpha is dead" - So what?  VMS lives! & Message-ID: <3D14ADE8.B89E41D@fsi.net>  
 Island wrote:  > M > Does that mean that Charon Vax, if licensing was cheaper, would be a viable % > option for home and business use ??   E Charon VAX license costs are only half of the emulation equation. You / must still license VMS on the emulation system.   G > After all, PC's are so dmaned cheap that people running alpha/vax for J > process control or non cpu intensigve apps could definitely benefit from > this > cheap alternative   < ...providing other licensing costs can be brought into line.   --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2002 20:36:09 GMT * From: Paul Anderson <paul.anderson@hp.com>6 Subject: Re: ??== $print/error_notify=output file name5 Message-ID: <240620021630117128%paul.anderson@hp.com>   / [[ This message was both posted and mailed: see ;    the "To," "Cc," and "Newsgroups" headers for details. ]]   G In article <aus-E25C9D.06400321062002@wrzx08.rz.uni-wuerzburg.de>, Aus, - Hans Magnus <aus@vim.uni-wuerzburg.de> wrote:   K > Is there an easy way to redirect printer error messages to a file? These  K > error messages appear on the users screen but the user doesn't bother to   > notify us. > F > Something like "$print/error_notify=output file name" would be nice.  F Maybe PRINT /PARAMETERS=MESSAGES=KEEP would help.  See online help for a bit more information.    This is specific to DCPS.    Paul   --    Paul Anderson   OpenVMS Engineering    Hewlett-Packard Company    ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 22 Jun 2002 17:00:16 GMT 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> 6 Subject: Re: ??== $print/error_notify=output file name' Message-ID: <3D14B109.22F1F769@fsi.net>    "Aus, Hans Magnus" wrote:  > J > Is there an easy way to redirect printer error messages to a file? TheseJ > error messages appear on the users screen but the user doesn't bother to > notify us. > F > Something like "$print/error_notify=output file name" would be nice.   Something else to consider:     $ DEFINE/USER SYS$ERROR filespec* $ PRINT/qualifiers filespec[/qualifier(s)]  F The message will appear both on the screen and in the file specified.   E This is one of the ways in which VMS differs from UN*X, et al: unlike F the way those platforms handle their stderr stream, messages output toG SYS$ERROR will usually be repeated to SYS$OUTPUT unless they both point  to the same target.    --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 23 Jun 2002 08:47:47 +0200 3 From: "Aus, Hans Magnus" <aus@vim.uni-wuerzburg.de> 6 Subject: Re: ??== $print/error_notify=output file nameB Message-ID: <aus-D3752F.08474723062002@wrzx08.rz.uni-wuerzburg.de>  G Many thanks for the informative suggestions and prompt responses. I'll  $ try these new to me ideas this week.   --  4 Hans Magnus Aus, Wuerzburg, aus@vim.uni-wuerzburg.de   ------------------------------  + Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2002 21:13:55 +0000 (UTC) - From: lewis@spyder.mitre.org (Keith A. Lewis)   Subject: RE: A PL/I question .... Message-ID: <af822i$k0r$1@newslocal.mitre.org>   "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> writes in article <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIAELCFDAA.tom@kednos.com> dated Fri, 21 Jun 2002 07:36:21 -0700:? >Structure members need only be qualified if they are ambiguous   E That's his complaint, Tom.  He'd prefer if they *always* needed to be  qualified, as in C.   B In large systems, it certainly would make variable references moreH search-able.  Another way to do that would be to put the fully-qualified< variable names in the .LIS file and let people search there.  F >>I am not the biggest fan of PL/I (born and raised on C) and find theA >>programs unreadable at the best of times (being able to specify A >>members of structure without the qualifying name makes for poor B >>readability!)  but I can see its usefulness ... unfortunately myG >>project is to re-write certain parts of a much larger PL/I program in   + --Keith Lewis              klewis$mitre.org > The above may not (yet) represent the opinions of my employer.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2002 18:05:24 -0700 # From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com>   Subject: RE: A PL/I question ...9 Message-ID: <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIIEOIFDAA.tom@kednos.com>    >-----Original Message----- 5 >From: Keith A. Lewis [mailto:lewis@spyder.mitre.org] $ >Sent: Monday, June 24, 2002 2:14 PM >To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com! >Subject: RE: A PL/I question ...  >  > 0 >"Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> writes in article@ ><CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIAELCFDAA.tom@kednos.com> dated Fri, 21 Jun >2002 07:36:21 -0700: @ >>Structure members need only be qualified if they are ambiguous > F >That's his complaint, Tom.  He'd prefer if they *always* needed to be >qualified, as in C. > C >In large systems, it certainly would make variable references more I >search-able.  Another way to do that would be to put the fully-qualified = >variable names in the .LIS file and let people search there.   B Yes, but if they aren't ambiguous, then searching for them is also unambiguous K and easier if you don't have to type the full qualification.  Moreover, you L will also find the declaration when searching for it, if this were the case.  F This is largely a matter of style.  Personally I tend to give the full@ qualification, more out of habit than any particular discipline.   > G >>>I am not the biggest fan of PL/I (born and raised on C) and find the B >>>programs unreadable at the best of times (being able to specifyB >>>members of structure without the qualifying name makes for poorC >>>readability!)  but I can see its usefulness ... unfortunately my H >>>project is to re-write certain parts of a much larger PL/I program in > , >--Keith Lewis              klewis$mitre.org? >The above may not (yet) represent the opinions of my employer.  >  >---' >Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. ; >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). A >Version: 6.0.372 / Virus Database: 207 - Release Date: 6/20/2002  >  --- & Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.: Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).@ Version: 6.0.372 / Virus Database: 207 - Release Date: 6/20/2002   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2002 17:21:21 -0400 ( From: David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>9 Subject: A possible shift in the status of VMS ar HP ???? , Message-ID: <3D178D51.5020706@tsoft-inc.com>  O I'm used to always seeing either the entire ommission of any mention of VMS in  O DEC/Compaq/HP information, or a brief mention almost as an afterthought.  Now,  N it's not actually HP, but, it's what most of us might consider semi-official. = In a recent e-mail from (whatever they're now calling) DECUS:   N The HP Enterprise Technical Symposium 2002 (previously known as CETS) is HP's P technical conference for pre-merger Compaq technologists covering StorageWorks, P HP OpenVMS, HP ProLiant, Tru64 UNIX, HP-UX, Linux, Novell, Oracle and Microsoft Q Technologies.  Plan now to take full advantage of the Symposium from October 6 -   11 in St. Louis, Missouri.    O In the above paragraph VMS is mentioned before all but storageworks.  I had to  O re-read it to be sure.  Granted, in a later paragraph 'Proliant' moved back in  O front of VMS.  But, after being conditioned to seeing VMS last, or not at all,  : it seems a small but possibly significant shift in things.  O So, am I imagining things?  Is it possibly because it's from DECUS and not HP?  S Am I still grasping after any little insignificant scrap, as I've done in the past?    Other perspectives?    Dave   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2002 23:17:59 GMT 1 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com> = Subject: Re: A possible shift in the status of VMS ar HP ???? . Message-ID: <HMNR8.141551$nZ3.59903@rwcrnsc53>  5 "David Froble" <davef@tsoft-inc.com> wrote in message & news:3D178D51.5020706@tsoft-inc.com...I > I'm used to always seeing either the entire ommission of any mention of  VMS inJ > DEC/Compaq/HP information, or a brief mention almost as an afterthought. Now,@ > it's not actually HP, but, it's what most of us might consider semi-official.? > In a recent e-mail from (whatever they're now calling) DECUS:  > J > The HP Enterprise Technical Symposium 2002 (previously known as CETS) is HP'sC > technical conference for pre-merger Compaq technologists covering 
 StorageWorks, G > HP OpenVMS, HP ProLiant, Tru64 UNIX, HP-UX, Linux, Novell, Oracle and 	 Microsoft F > Technologies.  Plan now to take full advantage of the Symposium from October 6 -  > 11 in St. Louis, Missouri. >  > I > In the above paragraph VMS is mentioned before all but storageworks.  I  had toH > re-read it to be sure.  Granted, in a later paragraph 'Proliant' moved back in K > front of VMS.  But, after being conditioned to seeing VMS last, or not at  all,< > it seems a small but possibly significant shift in things. > L > So, am I imagining things?  Is it possibly because it's from DECUS and not HP? K > Am I still grasping after any little insignificant scrap, as I've done in 	 the past?  >  > Other perspectives?   G Well, note that the collateral was in fact perpetrated by Encompass (ne  DECUS), not Hewlett-Packard.    I Even tho' I happen to sit on the Encompass board, I gotta wonder what one J calls "pre-merger Compaq technologists" in this post-merger era. I suppose) I'll have to go to HPETS2002 to find out.    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2002 21:41:12 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> = Subject: Re: A possible shift in the status of VMS ar HP ???? , Message-ID: <3D17CA36.49A5C3DE@videotron.ca>   David Froble wrote: O > The HP Enterprise Technical Symposium 2002 (previously known as CETS) is HP's   G > In the above paragraph VMS is mentioned before all but storageworks.    ? Coinsider that VMS is the only semi-viable product left for the L group-formerly-known-as-DECUS to handle, since the rest will be done by HP'sJ Interex user group. Note that what used to be DECUS could also play a hugeN role in getting Tru64 customers to express their needs and comments about HP'sN conversion plans (from a technical perspective, what utilities/system services8 need be ported to ease customer's own porting problems).   ------------------------------   Date: 24 Jun 2002 21:15:35 GMT2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)6 Subject: Re: Another C and PL/I question - Descriptors* Message-ID: <af825n$5qr$2@web1.cup.hp.com>  j In article <XStP8.1484$Rf7.529909@news20.bellglobal.com>, "Jeffrey Cameron" <bubbapig@hotmail.com> writes:J :OK ... yet ANOTHER question about mixing these two in the Common Language0 :Environment, a couple of questions actually ...  G   Ok, I will here assume that you will not have access to documentation$A   which describes exactly what language-specific argument passingoB   technique uses exactly which OpenVMS argument passing mechanism.G   (Some languages might have this in a table or an appendix somewhere, iD   and some might not.  I do not know.  I would encourage you to look;   for this documentation.  You might not find it, however.)   D   With that assumption in mind, please acquire and read through the F   OpenVMS calling standard manual.  This manual is part of the OpenVMSC   documentation.  You really need to understand the details in thisiB   manual, as you are about to wade into a complex area of OpenVMS,D   and one usually nicely hidden by the language compilers.  (If you F   don't know how the registers and the calls work, then little of whatD   you might see as you continue along will make particular sense...)  L :1. My C++ modules must interact with certain PL/I code and quite often thseG :PL/I modules either return or take as a parameter a bit (usually as ans' :unaligned bit string), for example ...i  G   Write up some stub programs in one of the target languages.  Use the  I   debugger on the stub programs.  Specifically, use the debugger to look tG   at the data being passed by the particular language -- you'll need torG   look at machine instructions and registers and the stack.  Then look  H   at the calling standard manual.  Match what you see being passed with H   the construct used within the language.  (This is why you need to know$   how the calling standard works...)  F   This debugger-based approach to the problem is supremely ugly and isI   quite tedious, of course.  But it does work.  (I used this approach to  2   determine how to connect Pascal and C routines.)  H   OpenVMS provides a variety of RTL calls to retrieve specific parts of I   string descriptors (eg: LIB$ANALYZE_SDESC) and to copy descriptor data  I   around (eg: LIB$SCOPY_DXDX).  C does not directly support the range of eK   descriptors that other languages provide/utilize, but C can quite easily  6   construct these descriptors using dscdef.h and such.  H   If you have not already done so, read the OpenVMS FAQ section on C andJ   descriptors and such.  That text will hopefully help you avoid a few of    the more common pitfalls.e  K   If you want to try to get lucky, you might find some stuff in the supportlK   databases -- if there are any code examples available for your particulareL   language pairing, that database is where they will likely be found.  WhileN   the FAQ has pointers to this database, please see <http://askq.compaq.com/>.  N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------N       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.com    N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 22 Jun 2002 16:13:12 GMTk1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>eB Subject: Re: Call or email hp ... they will answer your questions!' Message-ID: <3D14A601.4FE4B9A5@fsi.net>e   "Terry C. Shannon" wrote:D > > > "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote in message# > news:3D114560.FE61307C@fsi.net...?
 > > [snip]C > > HP has *GOT* to stand up, step up to the plate and state, in noaH > > uncertain terms, that the Alphacide was mistake and that Alphas willJ > > continue to be developed and will continue to be available until IntelK > > FINALLY manages to put forth a viable, ready-for-prime-time 64-bit CPU.  > >TF > > Anything short of that is just so much more zero-credibility sales
 > > fluff. > H > Having lost a year of Alpha development, not to mention the developersN > themselves, what is the liklihood that HPQ could pull this off if they chose > to do so?   D I think it's more a question of damage control. The Alpha teams haveE been largely disbanded, but EV7/9 are still expected, as I understand"C it. So, I think it's more a matter of trying to get their head back H above water. Then, depending how much trouble Intel has with IPF and AMDF with Hammer, there will at least be room to try and regain some ground@ with those Alpha systems that can be built/sold in the interim.   E Some sales that were "in flight" at the time have crashed and burned, G and are lost forever. Potential new prospects believe that since IPF is G still largely vaporware (from a practical stand point), VMS is like the F cartoon character who goes running off the cliff, his feet still goingH like mad, and has yet to discover that there's no ground (read: hardware? platform) beneath it, and it's about to "do the 'Coyote drop'".n  F Our "friend" Bob has yet to discover that despite assurances from HPQ,G customers will, in large measure, determine VMS's future more than HPQ.SH If there's demand, they'll keep making/selling it. When demand tanks for the final time, ...l  H The customers' perception is their reality and it is there that VMS will# continue to made or will be broken.P  C Customer perception is managed, in large measure, through marketing-G (which, yes, does include advertising). So long as HPQ remains reticenty* in this regard, VMS's fate remains sealed.  G ...IMHO, YMMV, results not typical, see your physician before beginningaE an exercise regimen, not suitable for everyone, see store display forp
 details...   -- l David J. Dachteram dba DJE Systemse http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/S   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 22 Jun 2002 16:16:34 GMTp1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>nB Subject: Re: Call or email hp ... they will answer your questions!' Message-ID: <3D14A6CD.2400E45A@fsi.net>n   Bill Todd wrote: > [snip]L > Since Itanic is still right down to the gunwales in heavy seas, announcingM > even just a strategic withdrawal to Alpha and PA-RISC until it's 'ready for 0 > prime time' could well cause it to go under.    H Considering how long Intel has been beating it's collective head against+ IPF, would that necessarily be a bad thing?    -- - David J. Dachtera7 dba DJE Systems@ http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/d   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 22 Jun 2002 16:19:33 GMTn1 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com>eB Subject: Re: Call or email hp ... they will answer your questions!> Message-ID: <ps1R8.114539$R61.39078@rwcrnsc52.ops.asp.att.net>  < "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote in message! news:3D14A601.4FE4B9A5@fsi.net...f > "Terry C. Shannon" wrote:n > > @ > > "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote in message% > > news:3D114560.FE61307C@fsi.net...s > > > [snip]E > > > HP has *GOT* to stand up, step up to the plate and state, in nolJ > > > uncertain terms, that the Alphacide was mistake and that Alphas willL > > > continue to be developed and will continue to be available until IntelH > > > FINALLY manages to put forth a viable, ready-for-prime-time 64-bit CPU. > > >tH > > > Anything short of that is just so much more zero-credibility sales > > > fluff. > >eJ > > Having lost a year of Alpha development, not to mention the developersJ > > themselves, what is the liklihood that HPQ could pull this off if they chosef
 > > to do so?  >nF > I think it's more a question of damage control. The Alpha teams haveG > been largely disbanded, but EV7/9 are still expected, as I understandoE > it. So, I think it's more a matter of trying to get their head back J > above water. Then, depending how much trouble Intel has with IPF and AMDH > with Hammer, there will at least be room to try and regain some groundA > with those Alpha systems that can be built/sold in the interim.   D Yep, EV78 is a done deal and EV79 involves as much in the way of IBMK Semiconductor process tweaks as it involves HPQ developers. Problem is, the-L EV78/9 team is on the Left Coast, the Least Coast folks doing EV8 in SHR are$ history. They have been assimilated.   >eG > Some sales that were "in flight" at the time have crashed and burned,aI > and are lost forever. Potential new prospects believe that since IPF is I > still largely vaporware (from a practical stand point), VMS is like thedH > cartoon character who goes running off the cliff, his feet still goingJ > like mad, and has yet to discover that there's no ground (read: hardwareA > platform) beneath it, and it's about to "do the 'Coyote drop'".R >AH > Our "friend" Bob has yet to discover that despite assurances from HPQ,I > customers will, in large measure, determine VMS's future more than HPQ.oJ > If there's demand, they'll keep making/selling it. When demand tanks for > the final time, ...t > J > The customers' perception is their reality and it is there that VMS will% > continue to made or will be broken.n   Yup.   >sE > Customer perception is managed, in large measure, through marketingeI > (which, yes, does include advertising). So long as HPQ remains reticent , > in this regard, VMS's fate remains sealed.  E Agreed. But I've been saying this for ten years now. Tin Ear syndromeg remains rampant at the New HP.  9 We'll have to see what Bob Blatz does in the VMS space...t   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 22 Jun 2002 16:24:04 GMTe1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>iB Subject: Re: Call or email hp ... they will answer your questions!' Message-ID: <3D14A88D.79813DAE@fsi.net>    Bob Ceculski wrote:  > b > "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote in message news:<3D114560.FE61307C@fsi.net>... > >mC > > HP has *GOT* to stand up, step up to the plate and state, in noeH > > uncertain terms, that the Alphacide was mistake and that Alphas willJ > > continue to be developed and will continue to be available until IntelK > > FINALLY manages to put forth a viable, ready-for-prime-time 64-bit CPU.  > >qF > > Anything short of that is just so much more zero-credibility sales
 > > fluff. > >OJ > > Sorry to have to state it so bluntly, but that is the bottom line from > > the front-line perspective.i > H > What is wrong with you people?  Alphas are continuing to be developed!E > What in the heck is EV7 - EV79?  And I talked to Rich yesterday andiH > he assured me their will be an entry level replacement for VMS for theG > DS10's.  EV68 shrinks and EV7 will certainly tide everyone over untileH > VMS is ready for production (2005?).  There is no reason right now why4 > you cannot buy Alpha, then port to Itanium. [snip]   When?i  H Did RM tell you something you can't spill just yet? Have you some uniqueE insight into when Intel will make the final IPF breakthroughs and puthA out a product that the market will enthusiastically and massivelyl embrace?  D Suppose viable, "ready for prime-time" IPF doesn't appear until longH after the final Alpha designs replace the current generations. What will  new OpenVMS systems run on then?  G Please see: http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?va=myopia, definitionm 2.   --   David J. Dachteray dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/r   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 22 Jun 2002 16:28:45 GMTy1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> B Subject: Re: Call or email hp ... they will answer your questions!' Message-ID: <3D14A9A6.F6E93BEE@fsi.net>)   Fred Kleinsorge wrote: > C > David J. Dachtera wrote in message <3D114560.FE61307C@fsi.net>...c > >Fred Kleinsorge wrote:e > >>F > >> David J. Dachtera wrote in message <3D0E5626.EBF15498@fsi.net>... > >> > >> >M > >> >Gee - now if we could get Rich in the loop on our sales cycle, maybe HEuM > >> >could explain the so-called "dead end" Alpha to our prospects who throws > >> >that back in our face... > >> > > >>I > >> Please contact Sue Skonetski.  If you need help closing the deal andi	 > believetI > >> that Mark, or even Rich is what you need to do it...  all things arer > >> possible. > >  > >*HEARTFELT SIGH*, > >tE > >As much as I'd like to believe that, I suspect it might be a touchiI > >difficult to get folks of their stature to co-ordinate their schedules 1 > >around the trampings of a travelling salesman.k > >a > N > Of course you aren't going to get them to become co-salesmen for you.  All IM > am pointing out is that if you need help to close a deal involving VMS, andlJ > perceptions of VMS - Sue, the ambassadors, and even HP management can be > used as a resource.   H The problem there, George, is the now widely held perception of VMS as aF dead-end issue on a another dead-end issue (Alpha) with no replacementH platform in a currently marketable condition. To counter that perceptionH requires an authoritative, high-level statement that HPQ is not preparedA to make. So, anything Sue or another ambassador might say will bei> greeted with little more than skepticism, certainly no kind of1 credibility that would ultimately lead to a sale.p   -- v David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systemst http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/y   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 22 Jun 2002 16:29:34 GMTt1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>1B Subject: Re: Call or email hp ... they will answer your questions!' Message-ID: <3D14A9D9.F7FBBA4B@fsi.net>f   John Smith wrote:s > 0 > "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> wrote in message5 > news:CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIAEJBFDAA.tom@kednos.com... 	 > > Fred,o > >oI > > In theory that may be the way it works, but we recently closed a dealfL > > where the customer bought 12 ES45s and I couldn't get a return call fromJ > > either ambassador or sales rep.  Maybe your commissions are too low:-) > @ > Nope. They get paid based on how many Alpha's they DON'T sell.  / Available evidence seems to support that claim.    -- V David J. Dachterau dba DJE Systemsi http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/u   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 22 Jun 2002 18:58:14 GMTe1 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com>oB Subject: Re: Call or email hp ... they will answer your questions!. Message-ID: <aN3R8.280790$352.26252@sccrnsc02>  < "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote in message! news:3D14A88D.79813DAE@fsi.net...l > Bob Ceculski wrote:t > >.@ > > "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote in message# news:<3D114560.FE61307C@fsi.net>...g > > > E > > > HP has *GOT* to stand up, step up to the plate and state, in no J > > > uncertain terms, that the Alphacide was mistake and that Alphas willL > > > continue to be developed and will continue to be available until IntelH > > > FINALLY manages to put forth a viable, ready-for-prime-time 64-bit CPU. > > >lH > > > Anything short of that is just so much more zero-credibility sales > > > fluff. > > >-L > > > Sorry to have to state it so bluntly, but that is the bottom line from! > > > the front-line perspective.  > >jJ > > What is wrong with you people?  Alphas are continuing to be developed!G > > What in the heck is EV7 - EV79?  And I talked to Rich yesterday and J > > he assured me their will be an entry level replacement for VMS for theI > > DS10's.  EV68 shrinks and EV7 will certainly tide everyone over untilhJ > > VMS is ready for production (2005?).  There is no reason right now why6 > > you cannot buy Alpha, then port to Itanium. [snip] >e > When?g >pJ > Did RM tell you something you can't spill just yet? Have you some uniqueG > insight into when Intel will make the final IPF breakthroughs and putpC > out a product that the market will enthusiastically and massivelye
 > embrace?  H I can't speak for Rich, but let's see how the market reacts to Itanic IIJ when it comes out in a bit over three weeks. Haven't a clue how the market' will react but it will bear watching.../   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2002 02:51:12 GMTn1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>oB Subject: Re: Call or email hp ... they will answer your questions!& Message-ID: <3D17DE9B.398A550@fsi.net>   John Smith wrote:  > > > "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com> wrote in message: > news:ps1R8.114539$R61.39078@rwcrnsc52.ops.asp.att.net...I > > > Customer perception is managed, in large measure, through marketinguM > > > (which, yes, does include advertising). So long as HPQ remains reticenth0 > > > in this regard, VMS's fate remains sealed. > >nI > > Agreed. But I've been saying this for ten years now. Tin Ear syndromes" > > remains rampant at the New HP. > >o= > > We'll have to see what Bob Blatz does in the VMS space...r > N > I suspect that HPQ, like Compaq before them operates marketing much the same4 > as the Vince Lombardi Principle regarding passing:K > "There are three things that can happen when you put the ball in the air,o > and two of them are bad."  > + > a) HP can do nothing about VMS and crash. ! > b) HP can market VMS and crash.d# > c) HP can market VMS and succeed.  > I > Any bets as to which two courses of action they will make an effort at?C  + d) HP can do nothing about VMS and survive.   ? Note, however, that a distinction is made between "succeed" andm
 "survive".    > Which is more expensive to HP?  C I'll ask my usual question: how much money can HP *AFFORD* to save?g   -- u David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systemst http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/l   ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 23 Jun 2002 02:56:11 GMTa* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>B Subject: Re: Call or email hp ... they will answer your questions!B Message-ID: <fNaR8.350810$Gs.27299005@bin5.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>  < "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote in message! news:3D14A6CD.2400E45A@fsi.net...  > Bill Todd wrote:
 > > [snip]C > > Since Itanic is still right down to the gunwales in heavy seas,o
 announcingK > > even just a strategic withdrawal to Alpha and PA-RISC until it's 'ready  forf0 > > prime time' could well cause it to go under. >DJ > Considering how long Intel has been beating it's collective head against- > IPF, would that necessarily be a bad thing?r  I No.  But I suspect Carly would consider it a very bad thing indeed, which 
 was my point.r   - bill   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 22 Jun 2002 13:19:55 GMTA1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>e' Subject: Re: Case sensitive identifiers ' Message-ID: <3D147D63.8B9B5327@fsi.net>u   Brass Christof wrote:, >  > Frank Sapienza wrote:  > >uB > > "Bill Gunshannon" <bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu> wrote in message) > > news:aeps6e$5pt$1@info.cs.uofs.edu...d5 > > > I don;t know about you, but I don't use a mono-h > > > case natural languaget > >,G > > Really?  Does your dictionary show different meanings for the wordsi1 > > "Dictionary", "DICTIONARY", and "dictionary"?  > > H > > All natural languages are mono-case.  Just because we may format ourM > > sentences using upper- and lower-case letters for appearance doesn't makeH  > > the language case-sensitive. > & > I'm not sure whether you're correct. > 6 > There are natural languages that are case sensitive. > 6 > IOW there is a difference between "Kraft" (noun) and; > "kraft" (preposition). While I agree that it is a pain tos= > access database records with mixed case I always thought ith? > should be the responsibility of the users to stick to certain ? > conventions. Case isn't the only way to screw up identifiers.] [snip]  D Just to complicate matters, "Kraft" is a proper name - a family thatH started a food manufacturing business. "Craft" can be either a noun or a4 verb, but I've never heard it used as a preposition.   -- I David J. Dachteraa dba DJE Systemsh http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/e   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 22 Jun 2002 16:15:30 +0200m' From: Brass Christof <welcome@spam.not>m' Subject: Re: Case sensitive identifiersu( Message-ID: <3D148682.9842F782@spam.not>   Frank Sapienza wrote:  > 6 > "Brass Christof" <welcome@spam.not> wrote in message$ > news:3D1349A0.81BD87FB@spam.not... > > If file namesn4 > > got the wrong case they could renamed after all. > J > Not if the file name was hard-coded in some application.  Or if it was aG > file shared among a large group of users (who would then each have tosM > incorporate the change into their processes -- not a very friendly thing to  > do), such as a database file.a  A If the file name was hard-coded in some application it should be  : changed in the app - case can be corrected by patching ;-)  : If the file has to be shared among a large group of users 7 it has to be renamed *before* those start to use it ;-)l  E > > While I don't see how UNIX would accomplish storing the names alla/ > > uppercase but displaying them in mixed cased > B > Windows/DOS can do it, so how difficult can it possibly be?  :-)  C They don't. DOS stores it uppercase and displays it that way IIRC, MA WNT stores it in mixed case and displays is that way but refuses sD to store another file in the same directory which is only different ' in case if I'm not completely mistaken.t  A Unfortunately I don't have access to any DOS or Windoze/XY boxes p@ to verify my statements beforehand. But I'm pretty sure that on @ MacOS 1-9 they were stored mixed-case and it wasn't possible to B store another file in the same directory which was only different  in case.   -- e? According to the Quality Assurance Institute C/C++/ObjC, PERL, a@ UNIX (incl. Linux) and Windows/XY are regarded as harmful. Java 0 is slow and the class library is badly designed.7 moc dot slupofni at ssarb - please reverse the sequence/   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 22 Jun 2002 16:27:36 +02002' From: Brass Christof <welcome@spam.not> ' Subject: Re: Case sensitive identifiersc' Message-ID: <3D148958.32338E8@spam.not>w   Carl Perkins wrote:s > - > Brass Christof <welcome@spam.not> writes...rH > }There is no difference in pronunciation. But there is a difference inK > }written and spoken language and as long as we are using written languagenK > }to communicate with other people and machines we should not restrict thes& > }possibilities to express ourselves. > D > Sooner or later computer users will use voice control on a regular$ > basis (some do now, but not many). > G > What will you do with your case sensitive file names then? Indicating F > which one of the conflicting case versions you actually want will beA > a pain in the posterior regions. Likewise for the case specifics1 > qualifiers on unix commands, "-R" vs. "-r" etc..   You're completely right!  @ One problem of voice control is in fact context sensitivity. In = natural languages case ambiguities are resolved with help of a@ context. As I pointed out in other contributions to this thread > I completely agree that using case-sensitivity for some types > of entities like e.g. for commands is not the way to go. UNIX  got it wrong, VMS got it right.   A I'm sure that people will sooner or later refrain from assigning hB case-sensitive file names if they have the ability to communicate ? with voice. OTOH I'm sure that people would like to have these A> ability for written communication and in some rare occasions. @ I also expect that there will be solutions to resolve that kind < of name collisions. It might be possible for the machine to ? respond that file name "windows" might not be unique but there eA were on with a capital starting letter and one with a lower-case hB starting letter and the user is asked to chose whatever sHe wants.   --  ? According to the Quality Assurance Institute C/C++/ObjC, PERL, l@ UNIX (incl. Linux) and Windows/XY are regarded as harmful. Java 0 is slow and the class library is badly designed.7 moc dot slupofni at ssarb - please reverse the sequenceA   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 22 Jun 2002 16:29:34 +0200d' From: Brass Christof <welcome@spam.not>b' Subject: Re: Case sensitive identifierss( Message-ID: <3D1489CE.B8CAC8A3@spam.not>   "David J. Dachtera" wrote:  F > Just to complicate matters, "Kraft" is a proper name - a family thatJ > started a food manufacturing business. "Craft" can be either a noun or a6 > verb, but I've never heard it used as a preposition.  D Not in English. "Kraft" and "kraft" are a noun and a preposition in ! a some other language as English.v     -- n? According to the Quality Assurance Institute C/C++/ObjC, PERL, n@ UNIX (incl. Linux) and Windows/XY are regarded as harmful. Java 0 is slow and the class library is badly designed.7 moc dot slupofni at ssarb - please reverse the sequence    ------------------------------    Date: 24 Jun 2002 15:35:32 -0600- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)p' Subject: Re: Case sensitive identifiersl3 Message-ID: <3VGrINxqSYZ$@eisner.encompasserve.org>H  _ In article <af76eh$euq$5@info.cs.uofs.edu>, bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes: / > In article <22JUN200202572615@gerg.tamu.edu>,a, >  carl@gerg.tamu.edu (Carl Perkins) writes: > |>G > |> Sooner or later computer users will use voice control on a regularn' > |> basis (some do now, but not many).i > F > Actually, you could write BASIC programs on the TRS-80 Model I usingC > voice in the late 70's.  Didn't go very far in the past 25 years.g  G    I had voice recognition enabled on my Mac for a while, but I figured D    the folks down the hall might prefer I stop making so much noise.  A    I do wish I could setup the voice output under OS X like I didmC    for error boxes under OS 9.  Bugged the heck out of a PC supporte=    hack one day while she was trying to alter my Windoze box.A  .    jumping: "Is that computer talking to you?"      casually: "Yes."    ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 22 Jun 2002 22:06:21 GMT.1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>t' Subject: Re: Case sensitive identifiers ' Message-ID: <3D14F8C8.573B4E17@fsi.net>   	 AG wrote:i > 7 > "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote in messagel> > news:NimQ8.305879$%y.24906038@bin4.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com... > >r8 > > "Brass Christof" <welcome@spam.not> wrote in message& > > news:3D1194EF.1802F085@spam.not... > >  > > .... > >O: > > > There are natural languages that are case sensitive. > F > Really? What happens if you are illiterate? You can no longer speak?  D Gag bumper sticker, actually seen in the Chicago area and elsewhere:  & "Illiterate? Write now for free help."   -- n David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systemse http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/o   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 23 Jun 2002 10:40:30 +0200t' From: Brass Christof <welcome@spam.not>r' Subject: Re: Case sensitive identifierst( Message-ID: <3D15897E.55227ACA@spam.not>  	 AG wrote:m > 6 > "Brass Christof" <welcome@spam.not> wrote in message$ > news:3D1409DB.EF4075AA@spam.not... > > Bill Gunshannon wrote: > > > 2 > > > In article <aeu8fe01m38@enews4.newsguy.com>,5 > > >  "Frank Sapienza" <sapienza@noesys.com> writes:  > G > > > And my mother named me William when I was born and if you want toyG > > > talk to me you have to use that name.  James won't work.  Neithera > > > will Bob.o > L > Now, *that* would be one strange use of case-sensitivity. Anyone out thereK > knows of a language (natural or otherwise) that could turn "William" into-( > "Bob" using capitalization rules only?   :-)   . Though, you responded to the wrong message ...   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 23 Jun 2002 10:46:49 +0200u' From: Brass Christof <welcome@spam.not>B' Subject: Re: Case sensitive identifiers ( Message-ID: <3D158AF9.6CFB605A@spam.not>  	 AG wrote:7 > 7 > "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote in messageJ> > news:NimQ8.305879$%y.24906038@bin4.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com... > >>8 > > "Brass Christof" <welcome@spam.not> wrote in message& > > news:3D1194EF.1802F085@spam.not... > >  > > ...l > >d' > > >While I agree that it is a pain tosA > > > access database records with mixed case I always thought it C > > > should be the responsibility of the users to stick to certain  > > > conventions. > : > Well, I keep hearing users saying <<...>> word when theyE > find out that they have mistakenly named something SomeThingorOthervB > when what they actually meant was SomeThingOrOther. It should beJ > rather obvious those two are the same, right? Not so for Unix though ...  : I won't repeat my arguments in favour of case-sensitivity 9 in certain circumstances. But I don't think your example i8 is a good reason against because typing errors can have 9 much worse effects. If someone uses mixed-case naming in a: a case-sensitive environment attention has to be payed in : using mixed-case names. If someone isn't capable of doing : it right sHe should refrain from using mixed-case. But it 7 is not a good decision to restrict the people that can.c   -- n? According to the Quality Assurance Institute C/C++/ObjC, PERL, e@ UNIX (incl. Linux) and Windows/XY are regarded as harmful. Java 0 is slow and the class library is badly designed.7 moc dot slupofni at ssarb - please reverse the sequenced   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2002 23:17:41 GMT # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>.9 Subject: Re: CNET changed Itanium/Sun Cherrystone articlewE Message-ID: <pMNR8.5213$mi.3757@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>2  E There are ratified standards for posting corrections to news stories.t  D Ever notice how some web sites that get their stories from differentI newswire services allow you to see all the prior versions from earlier inL- the day? Pity these clowns don't do the same.s      8 "Rob Young" <young_r@encompasserve.org> wrote in message- news:iSc5OJdYzh34@eisner.encompasserve.org...  > F > CNET may have been able to play games in the old days, unfortunately > Google is very punishing ;-) > " > Here, before they clean this up: >eB > http://asia.cnet.com/newstech/systems/0,39001153,39048506,00.htm >wJ > A four-processor Itanium 2 system will cost about US$41,000 with 32GB ofF > memory, said Vaughn Mackie, enterprise platform marketing manager at Intel,# > speaking at a media event Friday.g >  >p. > And even if they do... Google has it cached: >- >-L http://216.239.51.100/search?q=cache:qJOma1V94lQC:asia.cnet.com/newstech/sysH tems/0,39001153,39048506,00.htm+vaughn+itanium+sun+mackie&hl=en&ie=UTF-8 >  >sG > Brings up a point... without posting it as a "correction" - somethingeA > a real publication does, they change reality on the fly withoutEF > letting an unsuspecting public know any different.  Worst part aboutB > it?  It was attributed as a quote.  Anybody ever been misquoted?A > Thought so.  Maybe he misheard 32 Gbytes when he really said 8.e >d > Rob  >n   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2002 21:53:05 -0400i- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>t9 Subject: Re: CNET changed Itanium/Sun Cherrystone articlep, Message-ID: <3D17CCFF.430D1C79@videotron.ca>   John Smith wrote:  > G > There are ratified standards for posting corrections to news stories.f  M HP had no problems changing Stallards damming VMS memo without any indicationnM it was changed the first time around. The second time around there was a "V2"oM in the URL which leads one to beleive it was version 2, but still no official9 revision notification.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2002 14:01:51 -0400f! From: Jim Agnew <jpagnew@vcu.edu>h1 Subject: Cob-F-eofon_acc error in a Cobol prog...i' Message-ID: <3D175E8F.5C5EEE9B@vcu.edu>?  D I've moved Cobol programs from one vax 5.5-2 system to another 5.5-2 system..? the transplanted proggies now get this on one particular ACCEPT' statement...  G Any ideas anyone? it's been a while since I've had to mess with Cobol..    jimr    = Do you want the report printed on your local printer? y/<n> :l y               : %COB-F-EOFON_ACC, end-of-file detected on ACCEPT from file SYS$INPUT:.;       -RMS-E-EOF, end of file 5 detected                                             t' %TRACE-F-TRACEBACK, symbolic stack dump/% follows                              aE module name     routine name                     line       rel PC   o abs PC nM                                                                              gD                                                            00039A00  00039A00D                                                            000391B8  000391B8D TREPORT2        TREPORT2                          648      000010CD  00007ECD   ------------------------------    Date: 24 Jun 2002 15:44:52 -0600- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)a5 Subject: Re: Cob-F-eofon_acc error in a Cobol prog...'3 Message-ID: <BI2OcW$5nmXr@eisner.encompasserve.org>m  K In article <3D175E8F.5C5EEE9B@vcu.edu>, Jim Agnew <jpagnew@vcu.edu> writes:aF > I've moved Cobol programs from one vax 5.5-2 system to another 5.5-2
 > system..A > the transplanted proggies now get this on one particular ACCEPTa > statement... > I > Any ideas anyone? it's been a while since I've had to mess with Cobol..  >  > jimt  G    I'd guess somebody buggered up the .com file that the app is runninga    from.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2002 17:09:16 -0400w! From: Jim Agnew <jpagnew@vcu.edu>l5 Subject: Re: Cob-F-eofon_acc error in a Cobol prog...a' Message-ID: <3D178A7C.ABA17076@vcu.edu>t  H That was me, but probably so!!!  (com file must have been in Spanish)... ;-Do  A Thanks for the pointer, I did hack that quite a bit to move it...    Jim    Bob Koehler wrote: > M > In article <3D175E8F.5C5EEE9B@vcu.edu>, Jim Agnew <jpagnew@vcu.edu> writes:eH > > I've moved Cobol programs from one vax 5.5-2 system to another 5.5-2 > > system..C > > the transplanted proggies now get this on one particular ACCEPT> > > statement... > >eK > > Any ideas anyone? it's been a while since I've had to mess with Cobol..2 > >@ > > jim. > I >    I'd guess somebody buggered up the .com file that the app is runninga
 >    from.   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 22 Jun 2002 15:53:41 GMTn1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>s% Subject: Re: COE, ODS-5 and Spiralog.i' Message-ID: <3D14A16A.AE0F02E6@fsi.net>t   Alan Greig wrote:  > H > On Sun, 16 Jun 2002 04:22:32 GMT, "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> > wrote: >  > >t? > >"David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote in messaged$ > >news:3D0BDB07.7C9D7098@fsi.net... > >c > >... > >vE > >> I thought those *WERE* the "bugs" "they" couldn't work out ... ?- > >-M > >The problem is your use of the word "couldn't" rather than "didn't".  It'sdI > >quite a bit like the 'failure' of VMS and Alpha:  it's not that CompaqD* > >*couldn't* make them more successful... > F > There are members of the Spiralog team reading c.o.v. One thing I amA > sure of is they are highly competent but probably don't want tooD > re-open debates consigned to history. If they wish to say anything5 > themselves they probably would have done so by now.e >  > But you never know...e  3 Needless to say I can only speak for myself, but...R  F There's a lot of VMS related stuff that is more a question what peopleE will do versus what they are capable of doing. I personally never saw * the value of spiralog, but that's just me.  F I *DO* see the value of OpenVMS-IA32 (but I am apparently the only oneF who does), competitive pricing of OpenVMS and OpenVMS-capable hardwareG (again, I stand alone or nearly so in those views), advertising OpenVMSiA and OpenVMS-capable hardware in the mainstream (another unpopularxD viewpoint, though I dare say a very few others share that view), and other items.  F This is not a slight against anyone or any group, just a difference ofE opinion. The fact that I lash out occasionally and rail against thosefH whose opinion differs is merely a sign of my frustration, and should not be taken personally.  C ...again, speaking only for myself. YMMV, results not typical, void G where prohibited by law, some restrictions apply, see store display for  details, ...   -- w David J. Dachterao dba DJE Systems- http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/m   ------------------------------    Date: 24 Jun 2002 01:19:30 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>% Subject: Re: COE, ODS-5 and Spiralog.r0 Message-ID: <87k7opj4kd.fsf@k9.prep.synonet.com>  / Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) writes:   ] > In article <3D14A16A.AE0F02E6@fsi.net>, "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> writes:t  sC > > There's a lot of VMS related stuff that is more a question whataF > > people will do versus what they are capable of doing. I personally8 > > never saw the value of spiralog, but that's just me.  l@ > No, it is not just you.  It turns out there were _lots_ of VMSF > customers who did not have Write-Mostly applications (where Spiralog# > theory would put it in the lead).r  : I could not see the point of Spiralog, but for a differentF reason. There where the customers who cared about performance, and who? had tweeked thier IO, so SL had about no benefit, and those who/ didn't, and didn't care.   -- a< Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.c@                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2002 12:49:39 -0700 0 From: Mark Berryman <Mark.Berryman@Mvb.Saic.Com>Y Subject: Re: Comments on someone's broken news client (was: Re: My conversation   with Lih, Message-ID: <3D171563.4996BA3B@Mvb.Saic.Com>   Brass Christof wrote:n >  > Mark Berryman wrote: > J > > The protocol is fine, it is the implementation that is broken.  HavingJ > > read the RFC and implemented code according to it, I can tell you thatJ > > anyone who gets the "doubled period" part of the description wrong hasH > > difficulty reading simple english.  It is very well described in the >                             ^ % >                      Or writing ;-)w >   > Take this over to your discussion on mixed-cased filesystems. D Sometimes, the shift key only goes part-way down 8-).  (And then the+ problem is with proofreading, not writing).d  
 Mark Berrymane Mark.Berryman@Mvb.Saic.Com   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 22 Jun 2002 21:31:44 GMTs From: <mreilly36@comcast.net>u% Subject: D'NIC network cards for LN17rA Message-ID: <416R8.31008$Ny6.1685349@bin2.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>u  I Am looking for D'NIC ethernet network cards for DEC LN17 printers. Please?( respond to mreilly36@comcast.net. Thanks   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2002 20:48:45 +0200n3 From: "Aus, Hans Magnus" <aus@vim.uni-wuerzburg.de>n Subject: Re: DCPS and HP4100B Message-ID: <aus-E5E523.20484524062002@wrzx08.rz.uni-wuerzburg.de>   Give Paul Anderson a buzz at:a1 "Anderson, Paul (OpenVMS)" <paul.anderson@hp.com>h ...f   > > >xJ > > > Do you know where DCPS 2.1 is available for downloading . I tried to	 > find itn >a   -- i4 Hans Magnus Aus, Wuerzburg, aus@vim.uni-wuerzburg.de   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2002 18:49:53 GMT * From: Paul Anderson <paul.anderson@hp.com> Subject: Re: DCPS and HP41005 Message-ID: <240620021443549888%paul.anderson@hp.com>   @ In article <af59kt$5s2$1@wanadoo.fr>, toto <toto@toto.fr> wrote:  ; > Do you know where DCPS 2.1 is available for downloading .   G If you would like to get a copy of the field test for DCPS V2.1, pleaseoA let me know by e-mail.  However, the time for feedback is growinglB short, as DCPS V2.1 will be ready in early July and ship on the Q3 layered product CDs.  : In article <0033000069037148000002L082*@MHS>, WILLIAM WEBB <WWEBB1@email.usps.gov> wrote:  > > Perhaps now that DCPS is owned by the same folks who make HPB > printers, making them play well together will become a matter of > higher priority. > G > (Not meant as a slight toward y'all AT ALL, Paul... rather poking funr) > at the perspectives of the suited ones)-  F Yah, yah, yah, wait 'til you see the HP Color LaserJet 4600, announced2 but three short weeks ago, supported in DCPS V2.1.  9    <http://www.hp.com/hpinfo/newsroom/press/04jun02b.htm>   9 (No, the press release does not mention OpenVMS or DCPS.)a   Paul   -- a  Paul Anderson   OpenVMS Engineeringu   Hewlett-Packard Companyb   ------------------------------   Date: 24 Jun 2002 20:18:01 GMT2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)/ Subject: Re: DTSS$NTP_PROVIDER update availableg* Message-ID: <af7upp$5qr$1@web1.cup.hp.com>  _ In article <aesnrq$imq$1@f40-3.zfn.uni-bremen.de>, "Sven Tieste" <sven.tieste@sw-hb.de> writes:a  B :we are using DTSS$NTP_PROVIDER to synronise the time of our Alpha :with a central server.a  H   Please review the OpenVMS Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ) for detailsJ   that are often required of questioners, in order to answer the original K   question.  In this case, knowing the DECnet-Plus and OpenVMS version are rK   central to providing the answer.  Providing these details also means that.E   you can potentially get answer(s) to your question(s) more quickly.m  F :The central server  has been updated to NTP 4. The request we send is6 :unfortunately Version 1. NTP 4 don't understand NTP1.5 :Question is if a newer version of  DTSS$NTP_PROVIDERc :exist and how to get it.IC :Maybe we have to change our time synchronisation. Some suggestionsdM :of safe and easy ways to use the synchronisation server which provides NTP4?   J   Current versions of DECnet-Plus (V7.3 and later) provide an updated NTP M   provider module for DECdtss.  (The FAQ lists this information, BTW, though  N   probably not as clearly as it should.  The index in the current OpenVMS FAQ L   does list DTSS$NTP_PROVIDER, though the cited anchor tag within the targetM   text in section 4.3 is located a little oddly.  Scroll up slightly to find -   the reference.)-  M   Short answer: get the DTSS$NTP_PROVIDER.C module from the DECnet-Plus V7.3 m$   or (as available) a later release.  C   The FAQ also has other options for time and time synchronization.   N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------N       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.com    N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2002 22:53:58 +0200u From: Dirk Munk <munk@home.nl>5 Subject: Re: Euro symbol, DECterm, Hummingbird Exceedw& Message-ID: <3D1786E6.6090005@home.nl>  C I'm using a VMS Workstation, and I can use (and see) the Euro sign. P Most likely this is a problem of Hummingbird. AFAIK every X-Window software has Q its own sets of fonts, and it seems your Hummingbird software doesn't have fonts n that can show the Euro Sign.       Tom Wade wrote:g > Greetings, > H > Anyone had any luck getting euro symbol support going in the following > environment ?  > 2 > OpenVMS 7.3, DECWindows 1.2-6 (with Euro patch). > : > On PC (X server) Windows 2000, Hummingbird Exceed 7.1.1. > N > DECterm windows display the euro character (A4) as a generic currency symbol > (as per ISO-8859-1). >  > " > Many thanks for any suggestions. > 
 > Tom Wade% > t.wade@vms.removeforspam.eurokom.iet >  >  >  >    ------------------------------    Date: 24 Jun 2002 15:38:47 -0600- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)r# Subject: Re: GNV UNIX vs. POSIX VMSl3 Message-ID: <YMaQ3w$6U4y2@eisner.encompasserve.org>   e In article <624d52b0.0206240552.284d7ab9@posting.google.com>, f.tirone@organoninc.com (Frank) writes:2G > Has anyone evaluated GNV UNIX and POSIX VMS?  If so, which is better?jG > (Functionality, support, performance, reliability)  I'm an Oracle DBA.F > and am about to take over several databases that are on VMS. I wouldF > like to write a generic RMAN backup script that covers UNIX, NT, andF > VMS. We use Cygwin for NT. A UNIX here document has been the easiest > to implement.0  ?    The POSIX kit for VMS is retired and unsupported.  Something C    similar is coming back under COE.  Back when POSIX was supportedoD    it worked as advertised, which was almost enough for what we were    looking for.o      What the heck is GNV UNIX?a   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2002 21:18:05 -0000n2 From: seibel_r@localhost.localdomain (Rich Seibel)# Subject: Re: GNV UNIX vs. POSIX VMSr; Message-ID: <slrnahf34k.746.seibel_r@localhost.localdomain>t  M On 24 Jun 2002 15:38:47 -0600, Bob Koehler <koehler@encompasserve.org> wrote:sf >In article <624d52b0.0206240552.284d7ab9@posting.google.com>, f.tirone@organoninc.com (Frank) writes:H >> Has anyone evaluated GNV UNIX and POSIX VMS?  If so, which is better?H >> (Functionality, support, performance, reliability)  I'm an Oracle DBAG >> and am about to take over several databases that are on VMS. I wouldlG >> like to write a generic RMAN backup script that covers UNIX, NT, andiG >> VMS. We use Cygwin for NT. A UNIX here document has been the easiesti >> to implement. >,@ >   The POSIX kit for VMS is retired and unsupported.  SomethingD >   similar is coming back under COE.  Back when POSIX was supportedE >   it worked as advertised, which was almost enough for what we were- >   looking for. >u >   What the heck is GNV UNIX? >m GNV = GNU is not VMSE I have used it.  It comes with a very good bash shell and most of theD@ common utilities, but not all.  It should do what you want as a C scripting language.  The most likely problem you might run into is  + that a utility you need is not implemented.i     --  D --------------------------------------------------------------------D Rich Seibel, Software Engineer                 (314)579-0066 ext 220D Object Computing, Inc.                           seibel_r@ociweb.comD Need ACE training?                      See http://www.theaceorb.comD --------------------------------------------------------------------   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2002 04:51:27 GMTc From: dittman@dittman.net1 Subject: HSZ50 Firmware needed7 Message-ID: <jFSR8.14206$5k6.4997@nwrddc01.gnilink.net>h  ; Does anyone have any spare HSZ50 V5.7 firmware cards they'dk9 like to sell?  If not, how about V5.5?  I'm trying to usey6 some 9G drives (RZ1-??), and the V5.0 firmware doesn't recognize them./   Thanks.. -- e Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net.= Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/m   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2002 20:08:52 GMTg2 From: "Sue Skonetski" <susan.skonetski@compaq.com>' Subject: Intel booting contest - Update 2 Message-ID: <o%KR8.30$Zm5.879663@news.cpqcorp.net>  ? Just letting you know that we have received 727 guesses so far.   = http://www.compaq.com/hps/ipf-enterprise/openvms_contest.html    suew   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 22 Jun 2002 14:53:46 GMT # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>0- Subject: Re: LLC for VMS Marketing VolunteersaI Message-ID: <_b0R8.101768$831.71393@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>    Delaware makes lots of sense.   % One director (non-resident is ok too)iK Directors meetings can be held via telephone, not necessarily face-to-face,s etc....   . http://www.incorporate.com/choosestate.cfm#adv  G Probably a better format is not-for-profit non-charitable status (which"L basically means running a business in such a way as to spend all income in a' way that generates zero tax liability).-  L There might(?) be a specific form of registration/incorporation that permitsL this with the IRS but I don't have any knowledge of this. All info I have is about for-profit entities.    4 "Carl Perkins" <carl@gerg.tamu.edu> wrote in message' news:22JUN200203004043@gerg.tamu.edu...n# > G Everhart <ge@gce.com> writes... L > }Such an LLC is cheap to set up here in Delaware, but mind there will need toL > }be some statement of purpose to the effect that its intent is to advocate thelG > }use of VMS in truthful, professional, appropriate, decorous ways (ast
 opposed toJ > }setting up a platform for starting flamewars or otherwise just angering > }people).  > } F > }I could well imagine someone being worried about such a development unless@ > }they could see that the intent was just the kind of thing VMS afficionadosL > }have done for decades (and in fact not to do all that much in a corporateK > }sense at all, what with the expected assets of approximately $0.00 being  > }as they are). > }0J > }Are there any lawyers that frequent the group that might give a word or two 
 > }of advice?  > }R > }Glenn Everhart  > K > Depending on the laws in the state where it is set up, an LLC can require4F > that more than one person own the company. (That is the case here in Texas," > or at least it was 6 years ago.) > 
 > --- Carl   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 22 Jun 2002 14:39:18 GMTF1 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com>t Subject: Re: New VMS Marketing? Message-ID: <m_%Q8.138043$6m5.116413@rwcrnsc51.ops.asp.att.net>r  : "Didier Morandi" <Didier.Morandi@Free.fr> wrote in message! news:3D1401E8.42021921@Free.fr...e > Who is this Bob Blatz guy? >d  ! New Director of Marketing for VMS    ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2002 19:24:06 GMT ( From: Don Sykes <annonymous@pacbell.net> Subject: Re: New VMS Marketing+ Message-ID: <3D177228.23B4394E@pacbell.net>l   James Gessling wrote:n > L > Where's my town?  HP afraid of Silicon Valley, or are we supposed to be so > closet# > to HQ that we are covered?   Hmm.b  M It's not just your town they left out. It's all of California! After all it'soK only got 34M people and is the 5th largest economy it the world on its own!97 I guess we're all supposed to crawl to Gate's backyard.e   -- C   Have VMS. Will Travel. Wire Paladin (@alphase.com)2
 San Francisco    ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 22 Jun 2002 15:17:46 GMT # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>o Subject: Re: New VMS MarketingG Message-ID: <uy0R8.102072$831.735@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>u  7 "Frank Sapienza" <sapienza@noesys.com> wrote in message.& news:af0t7p01aq4@enews4.newsguy.com... > K > Did you register?  Will you be attending?  I agree that there should be anG > lot more marketing, but here is someone providing us with information2 aboutnL > something we've all be asking about (a VMS product promotion).  If you andH > all the folks here at c.o.v register for the nearest tour (and attend) thenI > they'll have less of a legitimate opportunity to respond the way you'vec > described above.  J My questions were directed at finding out how Ed found out about this tourH in the first place, ie. did he stumble upon it by accident, did he get aK direct mailing from HP, did his HP salesperson contact him? In other words, K I wanted to know what steps HP was taking to ACTIVELY promote this tour andiI how they were contacting potential attendees. This has a direct effect one4 what the size of the potential pool of attendees is.  I If HP simply had a link on their web site to this tour, then the attendeewJ list is limited to those who happened to notice the link and surfed to it,I plas anyone they told about it. Placing a web page up is not an expensivetJ commitment in marketing, whereas sending out a direct mail piece is. If itI was a direct mail piece, then whom does it seem to be targeted at -system K managers, programmer/analysts, IT managers, CTO/CIO/CEO/CFO/COO's, business  department heads, etc....???  E IMHO, HP needs to stimulate interest BEFORE the tour with advertisingiF targeted at those that sign the checks and in a way that stimulate theI cerebral cortexes of those that sign the checks - ie. ads that illustratetK some of the strengths of OpenVMS such as disaster-tolerance saved our buttsnI testimonials, up time, and low cost themes, and then these ads are closeda8 with a 'Find out more at a seminar near you. Register at3 http://www.showexhibit.com/hp_openvmstour" tagline.t  H Ads in California that play on earthquakes - "OpenVMS gives you disaster% tolerance over multiple fault lines".s  K Ads in high-cost urban areas that play on the price of having a backup dataDG center also in a high cost area - "OpenVMS - With our wide area clusterlK technology, backup data centers no longer have to be located on high priced-K real estate" (picture of a building surrounded by cows or crops) or "InvesteK your mony in technology that keeps your business running, not real estate".k  I Ads in the mid-West with a large photo of a building with tornado funnels L visible nearby - "Worried? Not if you have your computing running on OpenVMS wide area clusters."  H Then to the soundtrack - Carly Simon singing "Nobody does it Better" :-)   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2002 15:51:01 -0400e From: norm.raphael@metso.com Subject: Re: New VMS Marketing? Message-ID: <OFE24AE45F.4E7F27E1-ON85256BE2.006D0DEC@metso.com>t   Bio?        E "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com> on 06/22/2002 10:39:18 AM   = Please respond to "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com>a   To:    Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com cc:u! Subject:    Re: New VMS Marketing,      : "Didier Morandi" <Didier.Morandi@Free.fr> wrote in message! news:3D1401E8.42021921@Free.fr...  > Who is this Bob Blatz guy? >   ! New Director of Marketing for VMS6   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2002 20:24:40 GMT 1 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com>, Subject: Re: New VMS Marketing. Message-ID: <ceLR8.140516$nZ3.58312@rwcrnsc53>  5 "Don Sykes" <annonymous@pacbell.net> wrote in message-% news:3D177228.23B4394E@pacbell.net...: > James Gessling wrote:B > >aK > > Where's my town?  HP afraid of Silicon Valley, or are we supposed to bes so	 > > closee% > > to HQ that we are covered?   Hmm.D >3J > It's not just your town they left out. It's all of California! After all it'sH > only got 34M people and is the 5th largest economy it the world on its own!9 > I guess we're all supposed to crawl to Gate's backyard.I  J I suspect that HPQ will be using its own facilities as much as possible toI help keep costs down. The current roadshow timetable may be predicated ineJ part on the availability of facilities. Or maybe the marketeers just throw@ darts at a map, but I suspect there's a Better Answer than that.   ------------------------------    Date: 22 Jun 2002 09:54:29 -0700( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski) Subject: Re: New VMS Marketing= Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0206220854.27b52f5c@posting.google.com>-   "Stuart, Ed" <Ed.Stuart@austinenergy.com> wrote in message news:<92EFB80E551BD511B39500D0B7B0CDCC0642C570@ohms.electric.ci.austin.tx.us>...NJ > HP has scheduled a presentation tour for OpenVMS in the US.  The tour isL > titled "to re-boot or not to re-boot   with OpenVMS there is no question."% > You can get details on the tour at:-. > <http://www.showexhibit.com/hp_openvmstour>  >  > EdG > **Please apply a generous amount of all the usual disclaimers here.**s   I'm registered ...   be there or be hacked ...e   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 22 Jun 2002 17:08:42 GMT<1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>u Subject: Re: New VMS Marketing' Message-ID: <3D14B304.A5D61246@fsi.net>n   Didier Morandi wrote:  >  > Who is this Bob Blatz guy?  D Hhmmm... Maybe his family once ran a state-side brewery. Does anyone besides me remember Blatz Beer?u   -- s David J. Dachtera: dba DJE Systems1 http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/o   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 22 Jun 2002 17:42:48 GMT 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>f Subject: Re: New VMS Marketing' Message-ID: <3D14BB03.B1C9057D@fsi.net>t   "Stuart, Ed" wrote:  > J > HP has scheduled a presentation tour for OpenVMS in the US.  The tour isL > titled "to re-boot or not to re-boot   with OpenVMS there is no question."% > You can get details on the tour at: - > <http://www.showexhibit.com/hp_openvmstour>s  G I registered for the Chicago show on 23-Jul-2002 and forwarded the linke to current and past associates.N   -- t David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systemsl http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/e   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2002 23:19:58 GMTt# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>. Subject: Re: New VMS MarketingD Message-ID: <yONR8.5215$mi.856@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>   Carly's house.  D Hors d'ouvres and cocktails at 5:00pm, followed by the presentation.        5 "Don Sykes" <annonymous@pacbell.net> wrote in message % news:3D177228.23B4394E@pacbell.net...f > James Gessling wrote:D > >TK > > Where's my town?  HP afraid of Silicon Valley, or are we supposed to ben so	 > > closeq% > > to HQ that we are covered?   Hmm.T >tJ > It's not just your town they left out. It's all of California! After all it'sH > only got 34M people and is the 5th largest economy it the world on its own!9 > I guess we're all supposed to crawl to Gate's backyard.t >r > -- >f > Have VMS. Will Travel. > Wire Paladin (@alphase.com)n > San Franciscok   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2002 02:59:48 GMTt1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>. Subject: Re: New VMS Marketing' Message-ID: <3D17E09E.C65D6507@fsi.net>    John Smith wrote:  >  > Nic, > I > Yes, I am still wondering where the 'official' notice for this tour wasn > first noticed. > J > One can go to the HP web site www.hp.com and click on their Newsroom and: > Press Releases links and find no mention of this 'tour'. > N > Similarly, one can go to www.compaq.com/openvms and find no apparent mention > of this 'tour'.   	 *SIGH*...E  * Ah, yes - stealth marketing at its finest!   --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE SystemsQ http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/r   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2002 03:01:10 GMTt1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>t Subject: Re: New VMS Marketing' Message-ID: <3D17E0F0.AEFA4AFA@fsi.net>    John Smith wrote:  >  > Carly's house. > F > Hors d'ouvres and cocktails at 5:00pm, followed by the presentation.   Wanna share a limo?o   -- f David J. Dachteran dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2002 03:03:21 GMT-1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>- Subject: Re: New VMS Marketing' Message-ID: <3D17E174.C6564EE0@fsi.net>l   John Smith wrote:- > / > Thanks for letting us know how you found out.2 > M > Has anyone else here found out about this tour other than via Ed's originalH
 > posting? > K > Just trying to get a handle on the efficacy of HP's method of getting thed > word out.n  < Hey - it leaked out! Despite their best stealth efforts... !  H Whaddaya want, anyways? ...an actual mailing? ...adverts? Whaddaya think this is, IBM-land?   --   David J. Dachteran dba DJE Systemsh http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/p   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2002 04:36:39 GMTw( From: Don Sykes <annonymous@pacbell.net> Subject: Re: New VMS Marketing* Message-ID: <3D17F3AE.24EFF75@pacbell.net>   John Smith wrote:r >  > Carly's house. > F > Hors d'ouvres and cocktails at 5:00pm, followed by the presentation. > M What's that address again? I live just north of SF and if I at least knew the-P town, maybe I could find her house and drop in for a visit! It would probably go something like his...:   Me: Knocking at her door.s  N Carly: Looks out through view port and seeing a middle aged, overweight, geeky' kind of a guy, opens the door a little.l  O Me: Hi Carly! My name is Don Sykes and I'm from the VMS MARKETING VOLUNTEERS. In2 wonder if I could have a few moments of your time?  B Carly: You're from the WHO? ... I thought they broke up years ago?  L Me: No. Not the WHO. The VMS Marketing Volunteers (note the case sensitivity making things clearer).   N Carly: I'm afraid I don't understand. You mean you want to volunteer to do VMS marketing... for free?!i  0 Me: Yes. But we would also accept help from you.  * Carly: But Michael told me VMS was dead???  H Me: Not really. Compaq still has billions of $$$ in VMS sales each year.  - Carly: (under her breath) why that little ...l  J Me: But the real truth is, it could be worth even more if it were marketedH properly. I mean it is unequivocally the most stay-up-est OS ever and is virtually hack proof!    Carly: You need marketing help.r   Me: I know. That's why I here.  L Carly: Well.... I'm still not sure. Doesn't Bill, I mean Microsoft, make the0 best OSs? I mean look at all the money it makes!  O Me: (choking) well... that's because he MARKETS his stuff! You know if you tell:7 people a lie long enough they will begin to believe it.   J Carly: (looking back inside the house) Bill? There's a guy here saying bad$ things about your stuff. Is it true?  C (Voice from inside) Of course it's not true! ... What is he saying?n  L Carly: (still looking back inside the house) He says VMS is better than your Windows.  M (Voice from inside) Oh...that was years ago - before I bought it and made NT.M Tell him to go away.  = Carly: Go away before I sic the dogs on you. (shuts the door)h  + Me: Running down the walk..puff, huff, puffi    Hmmm. Maybe this was a bad idea.   -- r   Have VMS. Will Travel. Wire Paladin (@alphase.com)?
 San Francisco    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2002 04:57:06 GMTt1 From: LESLIE@JRLVAX.HOUSTON.RR.COM (Jerry Leslie)  Subject: Re: New VMS Marketing9 Message-ID: <CKSR8.8768$iU2.260744@typhoon.austin.rr.com>   ) Don Sykes (annonymous@pacbell.net) wrote:iL : Carly: (looking back inside the house) Bill? There's a guy here saying bad& : things about your stuff. Is it true? : E : (Voice from inside) Of course it's not true! ... What is he saying?  :   D Cute, but His Gateness has admitted his software crashes too much...  <   http://money.cnn.com/2001/11/12/technology/gates_software/8   Gates admits software crashes too much - Nov. 12, 2001     Microsoft focuses on basics1!   November 12, 2001: 7:44 a.m. ET1E   Bill Gates admits software crashes too much and is too hard to use.d  	 How aboutn  B   Carly: (looking back inside the house) Bill? There's a guy here    wanting to market VMS.  ;   Bill: We had a VMSCluster in-house. It was too reliable. t  E   Let me explain to you  what happens to CEOs that dare market their nK   own proprietary products while selling my solutions. Does "Jimmie Hoffa" m   mean anything to you ?   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2002 23:03:08 +0200sB From: Michiel Erens <I.dont.want.spam@this.mailaddress.is.invalid>' Subject: Re: Recent version of GNU GCC?n7 Message-ID: <3D17890C.668C@this.mailaddress.is.invalid>c   GreyCloud wrote: >  > Michael Rice wrote:. > >pE > > I have been trying to find a relatively recent version of GCC (>=-F > > 2.95.3) for Alpha/VMS 7.2.  I have found references to 2.7 and 2.8  > > versions, but nothing newer. > >SG > > Apparently ACT has contributed Ada to the current GCC.  It would beiH > > great to get the full GCC set (C, C++, Fortran, Ada, Java, etc.) on  > > VMS. > >iE > > Anyone know if newer versions of the GNU compilers are available?l > < > I looked around for this also on gnu.org and couldn't find! > anything of the latest for VMS.m  0 I doubt that GCC on VMS has much future... See :R http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=20020618093203.D3049%40dr-evil.shagadelic.org   -- r ME Posted by news://news.nb.nur   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2002 15:50:45 -0700h" From: GreyCloud <cumulus@mist.com>' Subject: Re: Recent version of GNU GCC?b( Message-ID: <3D17A245.2E7DB1EA@mist.com>   Michiel Erens wrote: >  > GreyCloud wrote: > >0 > > Michael Rice wrote:. > > > G > > > I have been trying to find a relatively recent version of GCC (>=iH > > > 2.95.3) for Alpha/VMS 7.2.  I have found references to 2.7 and 2.8" > > > versions, but nothing newer. > > >eI > > > Apparently ACT has contributed Ada to the current GCC.  It would be I > > > great to get the full GCC set (C, C++, Fortran, Ada, Java, etc.) oni
 > > > VMS. > > > G > > > Anyone know if newer versions of the GNU compilers are available?h > >v> > > I looked around for this also on gnu.org and couldn't find# > > anything of the latest for VMS.h > 2 > I doubt that GCC on VMS has much future... See :T > http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=20020618093203.D3049%40dr-evil.shagadelic.org >   ; Odd that they say that VMS support won't be dropped...  butq8 when I goto gnu.org, there is no mention of OpenVMS VAX.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2002 01:24:08 +0200eB From: Michiel Erens <I.dont.want.spam@this.mailaddress.is.invalid>' Subject: Re: Recent version of GNU GCC? 7 Message-ID: <3D17AA18.6F4C@this.mailaddress.is.invalid>l   GreyCloud wrote: >  > Michiel Erens wrote: > >u4 > > I doubt that GCC on VMS has much future... See :V > > http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=20020618093203.D3049%40dr-evil.shagadelic.org > >n > = > Odd that they say that VMS support won't be dropped...  but : > when I goto gnu.org, there is no mention of OpenVMS VAX.  7 You probably misread the message. It says, that GCC on  < VAX/NetBSD will continue, but that VAX/VMS support may stop.   -- 4 ME Posted by news://news.nb.num   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 22 Jun 2002 14:38:42 GMT31 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com> < Subject: Re: Reuters test - Itanium II blows away Sparky III> Message-ID: <SZ%Q8.113667$R61.39183@rwcrnsc52.ops.asp.att.net>  - "cjt" <cheljuba@prodigy.net> wrote in message % news:3D13F281.4D35D9F8@prodigy.net...t > Bob Ceculski wrote:5 > >r6 > > David Mathog <mathog@caltech.edu> wrote in message' news:<3D11FFDD.1FCC3C6A@caltech.edu>...  > > > Bob Ceculski wrote:a > > >iH > > > > The test showed that the soon-to-be-announced HP 4-way Itanium 2L > > > > server logged results that were four times faster than the 8-way SunJ > > > > Fire 3800 server. The result was achieved on an Itanium 2-based HPF > > > > server configured with four 1 GHz McKinley processors, 16GB of memoryC > > > > and two 18GB hard drives using a beta version of the 64-bite	 Microsoftl > > > > Windows OS.I > > >tG > > > Ah yes, the faithful "performance win for morons" gambit. Partialn= > > > information on a "comparison" is the hallmark of unfair  > > > and misleading tests.n > > >yE > > > Notice they don't say how much memory was in the Sun, what kinddC > > > of disks either was using, or what types of network card weres? > > > employed.  Pretty easy to make a test go your way if youreE > > > "competitor" has insufficient memory, slow disks, and/or a sloweF > > > nic. For that matter, is the Fire 3800 the current model?  We've@ > > > already seen Intel comparing Itanium to older Sparc chips.A > > > Anybody know what this particular application does?  Was it G > > > CPU limited on either platform?  Ie, is there any evidence AT ALLeH > > > that the Itanium part of the HP server provided the 4X performance; > > > improvement, which is what the press release implies.e > > >tI > > > If I had to bet I'd wager that the HP had much more memory than thesJ > > > Sun (because 16Gb is still a lot of memory) and that this particularH > > > application was able to make use of it (if only for disk caching).I > > > Now HP might have a selling point still if the Sun cannot hold thataA > > > much memory - but it would  have nothing to do with Itaniums performancet
 > > > per se.. > > >  > > > Regards, > > >m > > > David Mathog > > > mathog@caltech.edu > >aI > > what's wrong with that?  Sun and others ahve been doing the same withr > > Alpha for years ...  >n" > So you admit that was done here?  H Of course it was done here. Look at damn near any TPC configuration thatI comes to mind. Does it resemble a real-world configuration? Hell no! Thiso7 applies to HPQ and to every other vendor on the planet.e   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 22 Jun 2002 18:46:18 GMTf  From: cjt <cheljuba@prodigy.net>< Subject: Re: Reuters test - Itanium II blows away Sparky III+ Message-ID: <3D14C5FB.87D023C0@prodigy.net>y   "Terry C. Shannon" wrote:k > / > "cjt" <cheljuba@prodigy.net> wrote in message-' > news:3D13F281.4D35D9F8@prodigy.net...  > > Bob Ceculski wrote:n > > >e8 > > > David Mathog <mathog@caltech.edu> wrote in message) > news:<3D11FFDD.1FCC3C6A@caltech.edu>...I > > > > Bob Ceculski wrote:g > > > >eJ > > > > > The test showed that the soon-to-be-announced HP 4-way Itanium 2N > > > > > server logged results that were four times faster than the 8-way SunL > > > > > Fire 3800 server. The result was achieved on an Itanium 2-based HPH > > > > > server configured with four 1 GHz McKinley processors, 16GB of > memoryE > > > > > and two 18GB hard drives using a beta version of the 64-bitp > Microsoftm > > > > > Windows OS.M > > > > I > > > > Ah yes, the faithful "performance win for morons" gambit. Partial ? > > > > information on a "comparison" is the hallmark of unfair0 > > > > and misleading tests.  > > > > G > > > > Notice they don't say how much memory was in the Sun, what kind E > > > > of disks either was using, or what types of network card werenA > > > > employed.  Pretty easy to make a test go your way if your G > > > > "competitor" has insufficient memory, slow disks, and/or a slow-H > > > > nic. For that matter, is the Fire 3800 the current model?  We'veB > > > > already seen Intel comparing Itanium to older Sparc chips.C > > > > Anybody know what this particular application does?  Was itkI > > > > CPU limited on either platform?  Ie, is there any evidence AT ALLeJ > > > > that the Itanium part of the HP server provided the 4X performance= > > > > improvement, which is what the press release implies.  > > > >hK > > > > If I had to bet I'd wager that the HP had much more memory than the L > > > > Sun (because 16Gb is still a lot of memory) and that this particularJ > > > > application was able to make use of it (if only for disk caching).K > > > > Now HP might have a selling point still if the Sun cannot hold thatsC > > > > much memory - but it would  have nothing to do with Itaniumt
 > performanced > > > > per se.o > > > >i > > > > Regards, > > > >m > > > > David Mathog > > > > mathog@caltech.edu > > >pK > > > what's wrong with that?  Sun and others ahve been doing the same witha > > > Alpha for years ...7 > >r$ > > So you admit that was done here? > J > Of course it was done here. Look at damn near any TPC configuration thatK > comes to mind. Does it resemble a real-world configuration? Hell no! Thise9 > applies to HPQ and to every other vendor on the planet.i  K Just wanted to make sure everybody agreed it was an "unfair and misleading"h article.   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 22 Jun 2002 19:02:24 GMTn1 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com>-< Subject: Re: Reuters test - Itanium II blows away Sparky III+ Message-ID: <3R3R8.40105$EP.3317@sccrnsc03>s  - "cjt" <cheljuba@prodigy.net> wrote in message % news:3D14C5FB.87D023C0@prodigy.net...- > "Terry C. Shannon" wrote:  > >21 > > "cjt" <cheljuba@prodigy.net> wrote in message ) > > news:3D13F281.4D35D9F8@prodigy.net...V > > > Bob Ceculski wrote:3 > > > >5: > > > > David Mathog <mathog@caltech.edu> wrote in message+ > > news:<3D11FFDD.1FCC3C6A@caltech.edu>...  > > > > > Bob Ceculski wrote:D	 > > > > > L > > > > > > The test showed that the soon-to-be-announced HP 4-way Itanium 2L > > > > > > server logged results that were four times faster than the 8-way SuneK > > > > > > Fire 3800 server. The result was achieved on an Itanium 2-based2 HPJ > > > > > > server configured with four 1 GHz McKinley processors, 16GB of
 > > memoryG > > > > > > and two 18GB hard drives using a beta version of the 64-bit 
 > > Microsofth > > > > > > Windows OS.r	 > > > > >SK > > > > > Ah yes, the faithful "performance win for morons" gambit. PartialMA > > > > > information on a "comparison" is the hallmark of unfair  > > > > > and misleading tests.e	 > > > > > I > > > > > Notice they don't say how much memory was in the Sun, what kind G > > > > > of disks either was using, or what types of network card weretC > > > > > employed.  Pretty easy to make a test go your way if yourgI > > > > > "competitor" has insufficient memory, slow disks, and/or a slowaJ > > > > > nic. For that matter, is the Fire 3800 the current model?  We'veD > > > > > already seen Intel comparing Itanium to older Sparc chips.E > > > > > Anybody know what this particular application does?  Was itkK > > > > > CPU limited on either platform?  Ie, is there any evidence AT ALLuL > > > > > that the Itanium part of the HP server provided the 4X performance? > > > > > improvement, which is what the press release implies.l	 > > > > >,I > > > > > If I had to bet I'd wager that the HP had much more memory than  theTC > > > > > Sun (because 16Gb is still a lot of memory) and that this!
 particularL > > > > > application was able to make use of it (if only for disk caching).H > > > > > Now HP might have a selling point still if the Sun cannot hold thatE > > > > > much memory - but it would  have nothing to do with Itaniumi > > performance- > > > > > per se.-	 > > > > >u > > > > > Regards,	 > > > > >r > > > > > David Mathog > > > > > mathog@caltech.edu > > > >NH > > > > what's wrong with that?  Sun and others ahve been doing the same with > > > > Alpha for years ...  > > >o& > > > So you admit that was done here? > >tL > > Of course it was done here. Look at damn near any TPC configuration thatH > > comes to mind. Does it resemble a real-world configuration? Hell no! This; > > applies to HPQ and to every other vendor on the planet.m >nA > Just wanted to make sure everybody agreed it was an "unfair and  misleading" 
 > article.  K Seems to me that all benchmarketing articles are unfair and misleading. Theo: only benchmark that matters is your own app. End of story.   ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 23 Jun 2002 02:46:54 GMTu* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>< Subject: Re: Reuters test - Itanium II blows away Sparky IIIB Message-ID: <yEaR8.350776$Gs.27292816@bin5.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>  < "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com> wrote in message( news:_iLQ8.104077$nZ3.43529@rwcrnsc53... > % > "Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy" @ > <andrew_nospam.harrison_remove_this@sun#.com> wrote in message, > news:aeurv4$so5$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com... > >  > >- > > Bob Ceculski wrote:  > >e; > > > "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote in messaged? > news:<HwmQ8.41739$_j6.2392907@bin3.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>...D   ...E  B > > >>Sounded like Terry in 'advocate' (as distinct from 'unbiased
 observer')I > > >>mode, since information about the Sun configuration that would haver	 > alloweddJ > > >>a more informed judgement to be made about the purported results was > > >>conspicuously absent.d > 4 > Doh, I used the information available at the time.  D Doh, an unbiased report would have noted that in the absence of suchE information no sensible conclusions could be drawn from the availablenJ 'data' - and then refrained from presenting said 'data' for precisely thatC reason.  In contrast, the 'article' you wrote was pure HP marketing-	 material.    ...u  I > Advocate? Yeah, right. HPQ's advocates are at Gartner Group. As for me,c thisH > week I divested all of my HPQ holdings (except for 50 shares to ensure that( > I can still get into annual meetings).  K Quite possibly a wise move from a financial viewpoint.  But I suspect you'ddJ still take a high-level HP marketing position should one just happen to beL offered, and also have some interest in the company's continued viability so6 that you'll still have some 'paid subscribers' around.   - bill   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 22 Jun 2002 15:33:35 GMT 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>n+ Subject: Re: rooted devices and /TRANS=CONCN' Message-ID: <3D149CBA.19B5F643@fsi.net>a   Phillip Helbig wrote:? > M > > > Good summary.  It seems like /TRAN=CONC behaves like /TRAN=TERM in thiso > > > case.e
 > > >[...] > >l9 > > It's not a (2nd) logical name translation that fails, ; > > but *RMS* insisting that a /TRANS=CONC equivalence nameo7 > > has exactly one of two syntactical formats - either. > >       name + ":" > > or% > >       name1 + ":[" + name2 + ".]"e > >wC > > Note that without /TRANS=CONC, RMS permits a variety of formats 4 > > (any complete or incomplete file specification). > D > This seems to hit the nail on the head.  Where is this documented?  6 Note that Wolfgang's items both include a colon (":").  G This appears consistent with the quote from the documentation that Alan  posted.    --   David J. Dachteras dba DJE Systemsa http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/a   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2002 21:21:29 GMT . From: "De vernufteling" <e.vandyken@chello.nl> Subject: Re: size of exe0 Message-ID: <t3MR8.2356225$Lj7.78787162@Flipper>   All,  F Always link with /map; compare the maps with $DIFF/PAR/PAG/IGN=(B,S,T) XXX.MAPeJ The different size of the objects tells you where a possible change is. OrL system management installed a new library. When all objects have a differentI size it is pretty sure that you compiled with different compiler options. H When you have a global symbol defined for CC it is possible to change it without notice.h   Evert.  . "wing" <wingwong@witty.com> schreef in bericht7 news:873e96d6.0206232034.4535f2a1@posting.google.com.... > Hi,P >d@ > I have use the same set of sources to compile binaries but the. > binaries compiled are having different size. >EG > Is it possible for the same compiler in a machine to compile binariesg > with different size? >U  > The binary that I am using are, > Compaq C++ V6.3-020 for OpenVMS Alpha V7.3 >a > Wing   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2002 04:16:29 GMTs* From: "Mark Buda" <buda_NO@SPAM.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: size of exe: Message-ID: <x8SR8.1400$Rf.407010@news1.news.adelphia.net>  L Create a MAP file with each and DIFF the 2 .MAP files. This will answer your questions...   --  
 Sincerely,	 Mark Buda     , "wing" <wingwong@witty.com> wrote in message7 news:873e96d6.0206232034.4535f2a1@posting.google.com...4 > Hi,E > @ > I have use the same set of sources to compile binaries but the. > binaries compiled are having different size. > G > Is it possible for the same compiler in a machine to compile binaries  > with different size? >e  > The binary that I am using are, > Compaq C++ V6.3-020 for OpenVMS Alpha V7.3 >  > Wing   ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 23 Jun 2002 04:07:33 GMTi* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>* Subject: Re: Sun/Slowaris future in doubt!B Message-ID: <9QbR8.351099$Gs.27340792@bin5.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>  : "Stuart, Ed" <Ed.Stuart@austinenergy.com> wrote in messageL news:92EFB80E551BD511B39500D0B7B0CDCC0642C567@ohms.electric.ci.austin.tx.us. ..I > What would that do to the price of an Alpha chip?  Remember, one of thevK > reasons it was sold was that they were not able to move enough of them torK > bring the cost in line to compete in the market.  The production expensestJ > were reduced when that was outsourced, but the development expenses were
 > still high.   H It is truly discouraging that there are still simpletons around spoutingD this swill after a full year of vigorous discussion.  If you haven'tK bothered to become acquainted with the details, you should at least refrainf from spreading your ignorance.   - bill   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 22 Jun 2002 14:48:55 GMT31 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com> D Subject: Re: The VMS customer minute of the day: Paper Manufacturing? Message-ID: <r70R8.138139$6m5.116793@rwcrnsc51.ops.asp.att.net>j  4 "Carl Perkins" <carl@gerg.tamu.edu> wrote in message' news:22JUN200202092898@gerg.tamu.edu...r  E > It seems to me to be a combination of incompetant people and people E > willing to say anything to make lots of money. When the latter meet 2 > the former, someone is likely to get ripped off.  L Sounds like the Wall Street folks convincing the greedy (and those with moreH money than brains) that dot.coms with high burn rates would make lots ofJ money. Well lotts of money was made... by the Wall Streeters. Who soon may@ be starring in the remake of the old Bill Murray movie: Stripes!   ------------------------------   Date: 24 Jun 2002 20:08:13 GMT* From: Rick Kelly <rmk@roothog.rmkhome.com> Subject: Re: unix historyt3 Message-ID: <3d177c2d$0$185$75868355@news.frii.net>.  2 Bill Gunshannon <bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu> wrote:  E > Even among the existing BSD's there is enough to differentiate them.D > to make it a serious engineering decision.  If you mean on generalF > terms, assuming x86, Alpha or PPC, up until a few months ago I wouldC > have said FreeBSD.  I would still recommend it, but maybe not the C > latest release.  The product is superior, but the packaging seemstD > to have fallen on bad times with the departure of some of the core > team members.   I The original port NetBSD/alpha was at least partially funded by DEC, withmF the work being done on DEC premises. There was also work done on it at NASA and LLNL.  H NetBSD 1.6 is currently in beta and will have SMP support for both alpha and vax processors.M  E Note that NetBSD was the first UNIX to have shared library support one the vax. -- n, rmk@rmkhome.com		http://www.rmkhome.com/~rmk   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2002 23:48:06 +0200e) From: "Steven Thompson" <steven@omga.biz>rE Subject: Re: US-NC Spanish Cobol VAX/VMS ACMS FMS Mailbox Programmer/tB Message-ID: <af842n$rsv$1@nsnmrro2-gest.nuria.telefonica-data.net>  K ... totalmente de acuerdo! No pasa nada con espaol, coo, lo uso cada da,e  .             and my English is bl**dy good too!  & Oyez! Cuanto pagan?                :-)        = "WILLIAM WEBB" <WWEBB1@email.usps.gov> escribi en el mensaje ' news:0033000069076648000002L082*@MHS...    Spanish COBOL?   DIVISION DE PROCEDIMIENTOe DIVISION DE DATOS2 DIVISION DE AMBIENTE DIVISION DE IDENTIFICACION   WWWebb     -----Original Message-----/ From: Info-VAX-Request@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNETu$ Sent: Friday, June 21, 2002 11:41 AMB To: Webb, William W Raleigh, NC; Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNETE Subject: RE: US-NC Spanish Cobol VAX/VMS ACMS FMS Mailbox Programmer/     G You're right about that... Really, theres nothing wrong with Spanish..,oB Heavens to Betsy, I have a Mexican sister-in-law, too..  Actually,F thinking again and not shooting off my keyboard, the requirement could3 be for chatting with a plant somewhere in Mexico...n  E I retract my rant...  Hopefully I attempted to make people think, but  probably not..  	 Jim Agnewt   Larry Kilgallen wrote: >yE > In article <3D132BB1.2119BD44@vcu.edu>, Jim Agnew <jpagnew@vcu.edu>s writes: L > > I hate to pick a nit, but if you're in the U.S.A., you came to a countryH > > where English is the language.  If I move to Mexico, I'd *expect* to > > learn Spanish... >l@ > So Spanish is an unusual skill (for Charlotte North Carolina). > 6 > What is wrong with listing it as a job requirement ? >t+ > Better Spanish than Microsoft Windows :-)  >m > > j1076366@cfl.rr.com wrote: > >>D > >> US-NC Spanish Cobol VAX/VMS ACMS FMS Mailbox Programmer/Analyst > >> > >> Charlotte North Carolinau > >>I > >> Senior Programmer/Analyst with extensive skills in Cobol, Alpha, andtC > >> DCL in a VAX, VMS environment. Prefer FMS ACMS experience. The H > >> environment is manufacturing. Program to program communication, dclE > >> scripting, mailbox programming. This individual should be a teamtI > >> player to be able to be productive from day one. The individual will H > >> help support the company's ongoing initiatives for new developmentsG > >> and upgrades. There is a potential for full time after the initialtB > >> contract period. This position does not offer interviewing or > >> relocation reimbursement. > >>3 > >> ! Candidate must Speak and Write in Spanish  !l% > >>        * Local candidates only *   > >>              * US citizen * > >> schiffkey@cfl.rr.com=   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2002 19:50:12 -0400 1 From: Michael Austin <maustin@firstdbasource.com>pE Subject: Re: US-NC Spanish Cobol VAX/VMS ACMS FMS Mailbox Programmer/n2 Message-ID: <3D17B034.9D24F451@firstdbasource.com>   Steven Thompson wrote: > M > ... totalmente de acuerdo! No pasa nada con espaol, coo, lo uso cada da,g > 0 >             and my English is bl**dy good too!   Oh thank Heaven for Google...   G totally in agreement!  It does not pass anything with Spanish, coo, it- use every day,   4( > Oyez! Cuanto pagan?                :-)      Whatever pays?t   > ? > "WILLIAM WEBB" <WWEBB1@email.usps.gov> escribi en el mensajew) > news:0033000069076648000002L082*@MHS...  >  > Spanish COBOL? >  > DIVISION DE PROCEDIMIENTOr > DIVISION DE DATOS  > DIVISION DE AMBIENTE > DIVISION DE IDENTIFICACION >  > WWWebb >  > -----Original Message-----1 > From: Info-VAX-Request@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNETf& > Sent: Friday, June 21, 2002 11:41 AMD > To: Webb, William W Raleigh, NC; Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNETG > Subject: RE: US-NC Spanish Cobol VAX/VMS ACMS FMS Mailbox Programmer/  > I > You're right about that... Really, theres nothing wrong with Spanish..,hD > Heavens to Betsy, I have a Mexican sister-in-law, too..  Actually,H > thinking again and not shooting off my keyboard, the requirement could5 > be for chatting with a plant somewhere in Mexico...t > G > I retract my rant...  Hopefully I attempted to make people think, butm > probably not.. >  > Jim Agnew. >  > Larry Kilgallen wrote: > >rG > > In article <3D132BB1.2119BD44@vcu.edu>, Jim Agnew <jpagnew@vcu.edu>m	 > writes:hN > > > I hate to pick a nit, but if you're in the U.S.A., you came to a countryJ > > > where English is the language.  If I move to Mexico, I'd *expect* to > > > learn Spanish... > >fB > > So Spanish is an unusual skill (for Charlotte North Carolina). > > 8 > > What is wrong with listing it as a job requirement ? > >t- > > Better Spanish than Microsoft Windows :-)e > >t  > > > j1076366@cfl.rr.com wrote: > > >>F > > >> US-NC Spanish Cobol VAX/VMS ACMS FMS Mailbox Programmer/Analyst > > >> > > >> Charlotte North Carolinag > > >>K > > >> Senior Programmer/Analyst with extensive skills in Cobol, Alpha, and E > > >> DCL in a VAX, VMS environment. Prefer FMS ACMS experience. The J > > >> environment is manufacturing. Program to program communication, dclG > > >> scripting, mailbox programming. This individual should be a team K > > >> player to be able to be productive from day one. The individual willoJ > > >> help support the company's ongoing initiatives for new developmentsI > > >> and upgrades. There is a potential for full time after the initialmD > > >> contract period. This position does not offer interviewing or  > > >> relocation reimbursement. > > >>5 > > >> ! Candidate must Speak and Write in Spanish  !o' > > >>        * Local candidates only *:" > > >>              * US citizen * > > >> schiffkey@cfl.rr.com=     -- E Regards,  6 Michael Austin            OpenVMS User since June 19847 First DBA Source, Inc.    Registered Linux User #261163n7 Sr. Consultant            http://www.firstdbasource.comeE                           http://www.firstdbasource.com/donation.htmlu/ 704-947-1089 (Office)     704-236-4377 (Mobile)h   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2002 17:12:42 -0400.- From: "Peter Weaver" <peter.weaver@stelco.ca> 8 Subject: Re: Using old Bookreader files with Windows BNU5 Message-ID: <af820b$cbb6l$1@ID-141708.news.dfncis.de>h  5 "Stanley F. Quayle" <stan@stanq.com> wrote in message ( news:3D16DEF1.31446.EAA494C@localhost...( > On 22 Jun 2002, at 0:15, dooley wrote:E > > If I "double-click" on .bkb files then it launches the bookreadero8 > > that is in ODL, and I can read individual documents. > % > Thanks!  That's 99% of what I need!  > ...d   Is this the extra 1%?   E 0|1|%%1|contents.bnu|Compaq OpenVMS/VAX Online Documentation Library, G December 2002|OpenVMS VAX Online Documentation Library (December 2002)| 8 0|1|c:\temp|add_doc.odl|Additional Docs (1)|Add'tl Docs| 1|1||doc.bkb|Test Doc 1||r  1|1||peter.bkb|Test Doc 2||-   0|1|%1|prodlist.odl|Alphabetical Listing ofp  I After the first line in odl_lib.qnu (make a backup copy of this, you willyJ need it if you make a mistake!) that is in the directory you installed BNU? in "Program Files\Compaq ODL\ODL\Releases\VAXDOC*" add the line0: "0|1|c:\temp|add_doc.odl|Additional Docs (1)|Add'tl Docs|"  @ The next line will be "1|1||doc.bkb|Test Doc 1||" and the next "I 1|1||peter.bkb|Test Doc 2||" (NOTE THE SPACE) then the next line would belC the original line 2 with two spaces added to the front of the line.m  L Copy two .BKB files into C:\temp and name them doc.bkb and peter.bkb. You doL not need the add_doc.odl. *IF* that works then try the documents you want toK try. The one I tried did not work, I don't if I corrupted it while I copied1L it from the VAX or what? You might want to try changing the first "1" in theI line to something else, "5" is a .HLP file, "2" is a HTML file. I have nom+ idea what the second number in the line is.n  
 Good luck!   -- Peter WeaverL Opinions are my own, and do not reflect the opinions of my employer, nor theK company that it sub-contracts to, nor the company that it sub-contracts to.h   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2002 17:15:16 -0400 - From: "Peter Weaver" <peter.weaver@stelco.ca> 8 Subject: Re: Using old Bookreader files with Windows BNU5 Message-ID: <af8255$cavh3$1@ID-141708.news.dfncis.de>e  8 "Peter Weaver" <peter.weaver@stelco.ca> wrote in message/ news:af820b$cbb6l$1@ID-141708.news.dfncis.de...n >...G > 0|1|%%1|contents.bnu|Compaq OpenVMS/VAX Online Documentation Library, I > December 2002|OpenVMS VAX Online Documentation Library (December 2002)|l: > 0|1|c:\temp|add_doc.odl|Additional Docs (1)|Add'tl Docs|  F Note that the above three lines are really two, the line starting with< "December" should have been on the end of the line above it.   Peter WeaverL Opinions are my own, and do not reflect the opinions of my employer, nor theK company that it sub-contracts to, nor the company that it sub-contracts to.$   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 22 Jun 2002 09:12:13 -0400n2 From: rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger)- Subject: Re: VMS Marketing Volunteers, ctd...KL Message-ID: <rdeininger-2206020912130001@11cust151.tnt3.nashua.nh.da.uu.net>  9 In article <3D136C2D.9040505@tsoft-inc.com>, David Froble  <davef@tsoft-inc.com> wrote:   >Terry C. Shannon wrote: >e >cN >> Nothing wrong, but HPQ seems to be pretty sensitive to such things. CertainN >> people in the VMS marketing department were outraged when Ken Farmer set up >> www.openvms.org.) >  >>D >Yep, and when a certain someone got wind of some advocates actually planning on C >attempting to help by informing news organizations and such of thew
 qualities of iF >VMS, she wasn't too happy.  That's about when I lost the energy to do
 much more.   Who was this nameless "she"?   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 22 Jun 2002 16:53:08 GMT 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>r- Subject: Re: VMS Marketing Volunteers, ctd... ' Message-ID: <3D14AF5C.34B70EA3@fsi.net>    David Mathog wrote:a >  > "Terry C. Shannon" wrote:  > >a > >eO > > Nothing wrong, but HPQ seems to be pretty sensitive to such things. CertainsO > > people in the VMS marketing department were outraged when Ken Farmer set upe > > www.openvms.org. > B > Their stockholders should have been outraged that Compaq did not > own that address.   E ...to make no mention of the fact that "openvms.com" is also owned by,! someone who does not own OpenVMS.   - > Not that such gross incompetence was at alll3 > out of the ordinary for Q management.  Terms like-' > "asleep at the switch" come to mind. ,  9 Especially since that's twice they've "dropped the ball"..  G Testimony: That neither Digital, nor Compaq, nor HP (to date) have made D any overtures in the direction of acquiring control of either domainE name stands as mute testimony to future plans for VMS. Pretty hard to G ignore or dismiss, considering the sometimes bitter and drawn out courto* battles that arise over other such issues.   > That HPQ has seen fit to6 > keep pretty much the lot of them certainly bodes ill > for HPQ's future.+  2 There are none so blind as those who will not see.   --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systemsp http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/t   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 22 Jun 2002 17:11:17 GMTa1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>a- Subject: Re: VMS Marketing Volunteers, ctd...t' Message-ID: <3D14B3A0.1593EC7C@fsi.net>.   David Froble wrote:t >  > Terry C. Shannon wrote:  > O > > Nothing wrong, but HPQ seems to be pretty sensitive to such things. Certain-O > > people in the VMS marketing department were outraged when Ken Farmer set upe > > www.openvms.org. > Q > Yep, and when a certain someone got wind of some advocates actually planning onlQ > attempting to help by informing news organizations and such of the qualities ofA > VMS, she wasn't too happy.  C Hey: s**t or get off the pot. You snooze, you lose. Don't blame thet? other guy for having the gumption to do what you procrastinate.s   --   David J. Dachteral dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 22 Jun 2002 19:00:55 GMTs1 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com>.- Subject: Re: VMS Marketing Volunteers, ctd...c. Message-ID: <HP3R8.290353$cQ3.14897@sccrnsc01>  < "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote in message! news:3D14AF5C.34B70EA3@fsi.net...b > David Mathog wrote:e > >z > > "Terry C. Shannon" wrote:u > > >e > > >pI > > > Nothing wrong, but HPQ seems to be pretty sensitive to such things.- Certain J > > > people in the VMS marketing department were outraged when Ken Farmer set up > > > www.openvms.org. > >sD > > Their stockholders should have been outraged that Compaq did not > > own that address.F >eG > ...to make no mention of the fact that "openvms.com" is also owned bya# > someone who does not own OpenVMS.c > / > > Not that such gross incompetence was at alla5 > > out of the ordinary for Q management.  Terms likes( > > "asleep at the switch" come to mind. >e; > Especially since that's twice they've "dropped the ball".  >sI > Testimony: That neither Digital, nor Compaq, nor HP (to date) have madeeF > any overtures in the direction of acquiring control of either domainG > name stands as mute testimony to future plans for VMS. Pretty hard toeI > ignore or dismiss, considering the sometimes bitter and drawn out court>, > battles that arise over other such issues.  A Umm, if HPQ made a big stink about the domain name, and slapped a H third-party volunteer in the face in the process, how would that look onJ Page One of ComputerWorld. Especially in light of the fact that the domain? in question is doing a job that HPQ itself ought to be doing...v   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 22 Jun 2002 22:26:57 GMTm1 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com>r- Subject: Re: VMS Marketing Volunteers, ctd...w. Message-ID: <RQ6R8.282492$352.26770@sccrnsc02>  < "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote in message! news:3D14F812.1F112B86@fsi.net...i   >hC > I was thinking more in the line of friendly co-operation: provideoI > advance releases of info., perhaps help defray the operating costs, ...    Yep,   >gB > I can tell you from experience that the owner of openvms.com wasJ > approached, but the Q's interest quickly waned. I probably don't have to+ > say who to contact if you want more info.e  K Since I am a content provider to the site, I think I can handle the contact1	 info. ;-}t   >jJ > Suffice it to say that the apparent value placed on the name recognitionI > sends a clear message indeed. They could have had it for the equivalentnJ > of a song (and probably still can - can't speak for the owner, however),% > but even that price was too high...   H Thing is, they could leverage the site better by NOT owning it... but byJ modestly subsidizing it. Heck, here someone actually wants to get the goodE word out, and marketing has a problem with this? Color me stupid, butb# something just doesn't add up here!e  J PS-- I have set www.openvms.org as my home page and visit it frequently. IJ presume that more traffic = more visibility and more opportunities for the site owner.m   ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 23 Jun 2002 04:17:27 GMTn1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>.- Subject: Re: VMS Marketing Volunteers, ctd...S' Message-ID: <3D154FBF.8A5E0402@fsi.net>.   "Terry C. Shannon" wrote:n > > > "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote in message# > news:3D14F812.1F112B86@fsi.net...I >  > > E > > I was thinking more in the line of friendly co-operation: provideaK > > advance releases of info., perhaps help defray the operating costs, ...a >  > Yep, >  > >hD > > I can tell you from experience that the owner of openvms.com wasL > > approached, but the Q's interest quickly waned. I probably don't have to- > > say who to contact if you want more info.n > M > Since I am a content provider to the site, I think I can handle the contact  > info. ;-}a  - I trust we're not confusing .com and .org ...e   > >UL > > Suffice it to say that the apparent value placed on the name recognitionK > > sends a clear message indeed. They could have had it for the equivalent L > > of a song (and probably still can - can't speak for the owner, however),' > > but even that price was too high...l > J > Thing is, they could leverage the site better by NOT owning it... but byL > modestly subsidizing it. Heck, here someone actually wants to get the goodG > word out, and marketing has a problem with this? Color me stupid, butp% > something just doesn't add up here!I  H Well, it's no big secret that I'm not the sharpest tool in the shed, butE even a low-grade moron like me can figure that out. The question that ; will likely remain unanswered throughout the ages is "Why?"I  L > PS-- I have set www.openvms.org as my home page and visit it frequently. IL > presume that more traffic = more visibility and more opportunities for the
 > site owner.f  H I don't use a home page - Netscape comes up to blank page. Mostly that'sH to keep the LANmodem from dialing out when I don't want it to. I want toG be able to start up the browser without triggering a dial out. Artifact-: of the pre-broadband era, I know, but that's where I live.   -- y David J. Dachterae dba DJE Systemsc http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/e   ------------------------------    Date: 24 Jun 2002 16:10:39 -0700( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski) Subject: VMS port delayed!= Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0206241510.112a7f0b@posting.google.com>t  7 which is why I suggested to Rich Marcello that we wouldl5 need a DS25/DS20L VMS compatible box on the market tor' counter balance any porting delays ... u     VMS to Itanium port  delayed   1 HAL-HP: "I'm afraid I can't let you do that Jim" q( By Adamson Rust, 24/06/2002 08:25:47 BST    F SOURCES CLOSE to the action in the USA tell the INQUIRER that a little> snagette is likely to hold up the much vaunted port of the VMS1 operating system to the Itanium processor family.gF VMS will need a hardware abstraction layer (HAL) to run on the ItaniumA and that could take a little longer to prepare than the engineersr thought.  E Course Hewlett Packard realises that VMS will run on Itanium boxes itlB doesn't produce  and we also know that Intel has cunning plans toB compete against its partners by selling servers into precisely the same corporate market it does.   HAL will help there Jim. n  A And VMS will also be able to party in a multi operating system sonE called "utility data centre" environment, with CPUs pulled in to form B instances and then de-allocated when those instances are no longer needed.t  B What it means is there's an extra level of delay in performing the? port while the engineers work out exactly how to play this one.-  D Then, after that, the marketeers will figure out how to present thisE uniquely to their customers, hoping and praying they'll stay with HP.l   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2002 20:48:38 -0400t1 From: "Island (hpaq.net)" <dbturner@islandco.com>  Subject: Re: VMS port delayed!/ Message-ID: <uhffd6cos3vqa4@news.supernews.com>   K I can guarantee you that HPAQ will do something to the main logic board and K patent/copyright every circuit and firmware on it to prevent others gettings7 a share of the profitable VMS hardware/licensing market)  I Quite easy really - just find a reliable obsure SCSI controller and stuffiH some VERY proprietary firmware on it - then stuff it on the motherboard.H Just like the KZPCA Ultra LVD controller - use a generic and VMS dumps a coupl eof minutes into loading.N  F The most stupid thing HP could do is to not do the above purely on theI grounds that there would be some very unstable VMS systems running on allM kinds of funky controllers  J Just go to comp.os.linux.alpha and see the problems people have there with "kinda-working" controllersg   DT      3 Bob Ceculski <bob@instantwhip.com> wrote in message 7 news:d7791aa1.0206241510.112a7f0b@posting.google.com...c9 > which is why I suggested to Rich Marcello that we wouldt7 > need a DS25/DS20L VMS compatible box on the market tor( > counter balance any porting delays ... >t >  > VMS to Itanium port - delayedl > 2 > HAL-HP: "I'm afraid I can't let you do that Jim"* > By Adamson Rust, 24/06/2002 08:25:47 BST >t > H > SOURCES CLOSE to the action in the USA tell the INQUIRER that a little@ > snagette is likely to hold up the much vaunted port of the VMS3 > operating system to the Itanium processor family.sH > VMS will need a hardware abstraction layer (HAL) to run on the ItaniumC > and that could take a little longer to prepare than the engineerso
 > thought. > G > Course Hewlett Packard realises that VMS will run on Itanium boxes itSD > doesn't produce - and we also know that Intel has cunning plans toD > compete against its partners by selling servers into precisely the  > same corporate market it does. >t > HAL will help there Jim. > C > And VMS will also be able to party in a multi operating system sonG > called "utility data centre" environment, with CPUs pulled in to form D > instances and then de-allocated when those instances are no longer	 > needed.  >sD > What it means is there's an extra level of delay in performing theA > port while the engineers work out exactly how to play this one.w >oF > Then, after that, the marketeers will figure out how to present thisG > uniquely to their customers, hoping and praying they'll stay with HP.n   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2002 03:15:04 GMT 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>>" Subject: Re: WASD startup problems' Message-ID: <3D17E42F.2C6AAFEB@fsi.net>d  4 Educated guesses - I have no experience with WASD...   Bent Wagner wrote: > 	 > Hi all.a > $ > I have a problem starting up WASD. > ( > I am using this script to start it up: >  > WEB-START.COMe > " > $ mount dka0: web-disk web-disk:  , Try: $ mount/system dka0: web-disk web-disk:  C ...but note that hyphens in a volume name and/or a logical name mayi< cause problems (small chance, but why risk it?). Best to use underscores.  % > $ ht_root :== "vax$dka0:[ht_root.]"t > $ WASD_HTTPD_GMT :== "+1"c$ > $ @DKA0:[HT_ROOT.LOCAL]STARTUP.COM > $! run ht_exe:httpdB   You need to uncomment this.@  5 > I think the STARTUP.COM is supposed to start it up,t > but it does not.  E More likely the STARTUP.COM defines some more logical names and maybe1 does some other stuff as well.  6 > I have commented out the last line, because it takes7 > over the console, and if i log out, the process dies.   G Well, that's the line that actually runs the http daemon ("httpd"). So,  you need to uncomment it.m  8 > The ht_exe:httpd image needs to run in the background,( > and perhaps all of WEB-START.COM does. > < > Right now i start the WEB-START.COM from SYSTARTUP_VMS.COM > like this: > $ > @SYS$SYSROOT:[SYSMGR]WEB-START.COM  = I believe you'll need to look at doing something like this inf SYSTARTUP_VMS:   $ run- /detach-) /input=SYS$SYSROOT:[SYSMGR]WEB-START.COM-iF /output=sys$manager:httpd.log -	! Leave the space *BEFORE* the hyphen! SYS$SYSTEM:LOGINOUT.EXEL  = That's one way to start a detached ("daemon") process on VMS.d  @ Again, this is just an educated guess. I could be 100% off base.   -- D David J. Dachterat dba DJE Systemsb http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/e   ------------------------------  + Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2002 20:33:49 +0000 (UTC)c* From: bleau@umtof.umd.edu (Lawrence Bleau)1 Subject: Why does SMTP RBL filter appear to fail?u0 Message-ID: <af7vnd$5j0$1@grapevine.wam.umd.edu>  C Hello, it's me again.  I recently upgraded by TCPIP package to V5.1t? ECO 1 (OpenVMS AXP V7.1-2).  I'm trying to get various blockingeE options to work, and the RBL (realtime blackhole list) option doesn'to seem to be working.   # The line in my SMTP.CONFIG file is:   * RBLs: bl.spamcop.net, relays.osirusoft.com  D First, does anyone know if there are any problems using RBLs in thisB version of TCPIP, or of any problems in using spamcop?  Either theF SMTP RBL filtering option isn't working, spamcop isn't working, or I'm< greatly misunderstanding or misconfiguring what is going on.  E I restarted the SMTP service (but not the entire TCPIP package) after  adding the above line.  F We received spam from IP 67.118.185.84 after I did the restart. A userC received a spam email around 2400 EDT on Jun 20 (late in the day onc+ Jun 20) from the IP address 67.118.185.84 .   A From  http://spamcop.net/w3m?action=checkblock&ip=67.118.185.84 :_   Listing history:$   listed: Jun 20 00:37:01 2002 -0400&   delisted: Jun 20 03:26:02 2002 -0400$   listed: Jun 20 05:16:01 2002 -0400  C It's still listed now.  So it should have been listed at the end ofm8 the day on Jun 20.  The spam got through anyhow, though.   So, what is happening? What should I look for?p Is there a known problem?o, Has anyone used bl.spamcop.net successfully?C Could having more than one entry in the RBL list screw things up (Ib3 know, dumb question, but I thought I'd ask anyway)?,D Since the RBL mechanism uses the DNS system to look up an IP number,? is there some quirk about the DNS system that could cause this?D  D One more question: Is there a unique log entry made when an email is= rejected because its source is listed on an RBL site?  I havetB TCPIP$SMTP_LOG_LEVEL set to 2, and it has an occasional Send errorD entry, but it doesn't say *why*.  Any way to get it to tell me this,* so I can verify the RBL is working at all?  B This isn't the only site this has happened with, btw.  It happenedF several times over the weekend (receiving spam from an IP address thatD is on the spamcop.net list).  I can supply details if you need them.  E Oh, one more note (secondary, really): I used the NSLOOKUP utility to2@ do a "manual" lookup of the above IP number, after reversing itsD parts, and it (as expected) also showed an entry for that IP number:  , UMTOF$ nslookup 84.185.118.67.bl.spamcop.net Server:  noc.net.umd.edu Address:  128.8.5.2    Non-authoritative answer:H% Name:    84.185.118.67.bl.spamcop.net  Address:  127.0.0.2   C Does the RBL filtering software attach any meaning to the IP numbertD that is returned from such a lookup?  Or does it just check if there> was anything at all returned, regardless of its value?  More a curiosity than a problem.t   Lawrence Bleau University of Maryland" Physics Dept., Space Physics Group 301-405-6223 bleau@umtof.umd.edu    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2002 23:36:48 +0200e) From: "Steven Thompson" <steven@omga.biz>e5 Subject: Re: Why does SMTP RBL filter appear to fail?:B Message-ID: <af83di$o72$1@nsnmrro2-gest.nuria.telefonica-data.net>   Hi Lawrencee  L I just looked at your port 25 and did a couple of obvious tests which worked fine (for you that is)!P So what IS the problem? - You state that a USER received a (spam) mail.rI I'm under the impression that you can't stop a mail if it's for a genuines+ local user on a  locally configured domain.hI (I've got three domains on my VMS and I also get the occasional "get richt quick" emails). 0 You can't do much if someone sends YOU an eMail!  J What you don't want (and it happened with my first configuration), is thatK someone uses your server to do a 10000 email "blast" to every Tom, Dick andu Harry on the net.a  J It took various attempts playing with my own SMTP.config file to get it to@ work, and it seems to be working now, without the RBL's that is.C  The obvious... add this rogue IP to the "bad-clients" list and youn# shouldn't receive ANY mail from it!eI Configure the 3 sections "good-clients", "bad-clients" and "relay-zones",t with relevant values. A I would appear that these 3 in configured combination do the job!    Steven      = "Lawrence Bleau" <bleau@umtof.umd.edu> escribi en el mensajeb* news:af7vnd$5j0$1@grapevine.wam.umd.edu...E > Hello, it's me again.  I recently upgraded by TCPIP package to V5.1tA > ECO 1 (OpenVMS AXP V7.1-2).  I'm trying to get various blockinggG > options to work, and the RBL (realtime blackhole list) option doesn't  > seem to be working./ >w% > The line in my SMTP.CONFIG file is:p >M, > RBLs: bl.spamcop.net, relays.osirusoft.com > F > First, does anyone know if there are any problems using RBLs in thisD > version of TCPIP, or of any problems in using spamcop?  Either theH > SMTP RBL filtering option isn't working, spamcop isn't working, or I'm> > greatly misunderstanding or misconfiguring what is going on. > G > I restarted the SMTP service (but not the entire TCPIP package) afterr > adding the above line. >eH > We received spam from IP 67.118.185.84 after I did the restart. A userE > received a spam email around 2400 EDT on Jun 20 (late in the day on - > Jun 20) from the IP address 67.118.185.84 .n >.C > From  http://spamcop.net/w3m?action=checkblock&ip=67.118.185.84 :p >d > Listing history:& >   listed: Jun 20 00:37:01 2002 -0400( >   delisted: Jun 20 03:26:02 2002 -0400& >   listed: Jun 20 05:16:01 2002 -0400 >cE > It's still listed now.  So it should have been listed at the end ofo: > the day on Jun 20.  The spam got through anyhow, though. >c > So, what is happening? > What should I look for?  > Is there a known problem? . > Has anyone used bl.spamcop.net successfully?E > Could having more than one entry in the RBL list screw things up (Iu5 > know, dumb question, but I thought I'd ask anyway)?eF > Since the RBL mechanism uses the DNS system to look up an IP number,A > is there some quirk about the DNS system that could cause this?t >iF > One more question: Is there a unique log entry made when an email is? > rejected because its source is listed on an RBL site?  I haveeD > TCPIP$SMTP_LOG_LEVEL set to 2, and it has an occasional Send errorF > entry, but it doesn't say *why*.  Any way to get it to tell me this,, > so I can verify the RBL is working at all? >-D > This isn't the only site this has happened with, btw.  It happenedH > several times over the weekend (receiving spam from an IP address thatF > is on the spamcop.net list).  I can supply details if you need them. >aG > Oh, one more note (secondary, really): I used the NSLOOKUP utility tofB > do a "manual" lookup of the above IP number, after reversing itsF > parts, and it (as expected) also showed an entry for that IP number: >e. > UMTOF$ nslookup 84.185.118.67.bl.spamcop.net > Server:  noc.net.umd.edu > Address:  128.8.5.2s >  > Non-authoritative answer:e' > Name:    84.185.118.67.bl.spamcop.neto > Address:  127.0.0.2i >oE > Does the RBL filtering software attach any meaning to the IP numberkF > that is returned from such a lookup?  Or does it just check if there@ > was anything at all returned, regardless of its value?  More a > curiosity than a problem.v >a > Lawrence Bleau > University of Maryland$ > Physics Dept., Space Physics Group > 301-405-6223 > bleau@umtof.umd.educ   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2002 19:58:05 -0400o1 From: Michael Austin <maustin@firstdbasource.com>h5 Subject: Re: Why does SMTP RBL filter appear to fail?n2 Message-ID: <3D17B20D.8EEB7F74@firstdbasource.com>   Steven Thompson wrote: > 
 > Hi Lawrence  > N > I just looked at your port 25 and did a couple of obvious tests which worked > fine (for you that is)!v > So what IS the problem?i/ > You state that a USER received a (spam) mail.-K > I'm under the impression that you can't stop a mail if it's for a genuine - > local user on a  locally configured domain.eK > (I've got three domains on my VMS and I also get the occasional "get richC > quick" emails). 2 > You can't do much if someone sends YOU an eMail! > L > What you don't want (and it happened with my first configuration), is thatM > someone uses your server to do a 10000 email "blast" to every Tom, Dick andn > Harry on the net.r > L > It took various attempts playing with my own SMTP.config file to get it toB > work, and it seems to be working now, without the RBL's that is.E >  The obvious... add this rogue IP to the "bad-clients" list and yout% > shouldn't receive ANY mail from it! K > Configure the 3 sections "good-clients", "bad-clients" and "relay-zones",  > with relevant values. C > I would appear that these 3 in configured combination do the job!a >  > Steven > ? > "Lawrence Bleau" <bleau@umtof.umd.edu> escribi en el mensajey, > news:af7vnd$5j0$1@grapevine.wam.umd.edu...G > > Hello, it's me again.  I recently upgraded by TCPIP package to V5.1 C > > ECO 1 (OpenVMS AXP V7.1-2).  I'm trying to get various blockingvI > > options to work, and the RBL (realtime blackhole list) option doesn't. > > seem to be working.l > >n' > > The line in my SMTP.CONFIG file is:t > >a. > > RBLs: bl.spamcop.net, relays.osirusoft.com > >hH > > First, does anyone know if there are any problems using RBLs in thisF > > version of TCPIP, or of any problems in using spamcop?  Either theJ > > SMTP RBL filtering option isn't working, spamcop isn't working, or I'm@ > > greatly misunderstanding or misconfiguring what is going on. > > I > > I restarted the SMTP service (but not the entire TCPIP package) aftern > > adding the above line. > >iJ > > We received spam from IP 67.118.185.84 after I did the restart. A userG > > received a spam email around 2400 EDT on Jun 20 (late in the day on./ > > Jun 20) from the IP address 67.118.185.84 .u > >gE > > From  http://spamcop.net/w3m?action=checkblock&ip=67.118.185.84 :t > >e > > Listing history:( > >   listed: Jun 20 00:37:01 2002 -0400* > >   delisted: Jun 20 03:26:02 2002 -0400( > >   listed: Jun 20 05:16:01 2002 -0400 > >oG > > It's still listed now.  So it should have been listed at the end of < > > the day on Jun 20.  The spam got through anyhow, though. > >! > > So, what is happening? > > What should I look for?e > > Is there a known problem?t0 > > Has anyone used bl.spamcop.net successfully?G > > Could having more than one entry in the RBL list screw things up (Ia7 > > know, dumb question, but I thought I'd ask anyway)?IH > > Since the RBL mechanism uses the DNS system to look up an IP number,C > > is there some quirk about the DNS system that could cause this?R > > H > > One more question: Is there a unique log entry made when an email isA > > rejected because its source is listed on an RBL site?  I have F > > TCPIP$SMTP_LOG_LEVEL set to 2, and it has an occasional Send errorH > > entry, but it doesn't say *why*.  Any way to get it to tell me this,. > > so I can verify the RBL is working at all? > >xF > > This isn't the only site this has happened with, btw.  It happenedJ > > several times over the weekend (receiving spam from an IP address thatH > > is on the spamcop.net list).  I can supply details if you need them. > >eI > > Oh, one more note (secondary, really): I used the NSLOOKUP utility to"D > > do a "manual" lookup of the above IP number, after reversing itsH > > parts, and it (as expected) also showed an entry for that IP number: > >a0 > > UMTOF$ nslookup 84.185.118.67.bl.spamcop.net > > Server:  noc.net.umd.edu > > Address:  128.8.5.2- > >h > > Non-authoritative answer:w) > > Name:    84.185.118.67.bl.spamcop.nety > > Address:  127.0.0.2n > > G > > Does the RBL filtering software attach any meaning to the IP number H > > that is returned from such a lookup?  Or does it just check if thereB > > was anything at all returned, regardless of its value?  More a > > curiosity than a problem.a > >r > > Lawrence Bleau > > University of Maryland& > > Physics Dept., Space Physics Group > > 301-405-6223 > > bleau@umtof.umd.eduh   Steve,  G SMTP is "supposed" to check the RBL and see if it is a known spam relayrF (which this address is listed) and it should effectively add it to the "bad-clients" list dynamically.e  H So far I have not had to resort to using the RBL, but my question is- do> you have to pay a fee in order to use the RBL? I was under the impression that you did.  F I have good-clients and bad-clients configured (bad clients includes 5D class A IP address blocks from the Asia-Pacific area. -- my spam hasA been reduced to almost zero.  After a while, they eventually stope trying.r   --   Regards,  6 Michael Austin            OpenVMS User since June 19847 First DBA Source, Inc.    Registered Linux User #26116377 Sr. Consultant            http://www.firstdbasource.com E                           http://www.firstdbasource.com/donation.html / 704-947-1089 (Office)     704-236-4377 (Mobile)a   ------------------------------  + Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2002 03:45:46 +0000 (UTC)'* From: bleau@umtof.umd.edu (Lawrence Bleau)5 Subject: Re: Why does SMTP RBL filter appear to fail?a0 Message-ID: <af8p1a$dte$1@grapevine.wam.umd.edu>   Steven Thompson wrote:N > I just looked at your port 25 and did a couple of obvious tests which worked > fine (for you that is)!e > So what IS the problem?y/ > You state that a USER received a (spam) mail.tK > I'm under the impression that you can't stop a mail if it's for a genuineH- > local user on a  locally configured domain.aL >> (I've got three domains on my VMS and I also get the occasional "get rich >> quick" emails).3 >> You can't do much if someone sends YOU an eMail!t  J Wrong.  Think about it: If you can't stop spam email from being delieverd,J then a spam filter isn't very useful, is it?  You certainly can stop emailH from reaching a valid local user by using the Reject-Mail-From list with- appropriate wildcards.  That's just one tool.e  L > What you don't want (and it happened with my first configuration), is thatM > someone uses your server to do a 10000 email "blast" to every Tom, Dick ando > Harry on the net.e  E This is mail relaying (the "open realy" problem), which is a separate , (ahem) "feature".  This is turned off using     	TCPIP SET CONF SMTP/OPT=NORELAY  L > It took various attempts playing with my own SMTP.config file to get it toB > work, and it seems to be working now, without the RBL's that is.  C Then you don't have anything to add to my problem about RBLs, then?e  E >  The obvious... add this rogue IP to the "bad-clients" list and youo% > shouldn't receive ANY mail from it!g   Wrong; see below.   f In article <3D17B20D.8EEB7F74@firstdbasource.com>, Michael Austin <maustin@firstdbasource.com> writes:I >So far I have not had to resort to using the RBL, but my question is- dom? >you have to pay a fee in order to use the RBL? I was under theu >impression that you did.r  K You do *not* have to pay a fee; at least not on the sites I use.  Let's notTH have discussion go into fee structures, though; I asked a tech question.  G >I have good-clients and bad-clients configured (bad clients includes 5o  D An earlier poster corrected my misimpression about the usefulness ofN Good-Clients and Bad-Clients.  Perhaps you labor under the same misimpression.M I was informed that, if mail relaying is *enabled*, then it is not permmittedlC for systems on the Bad-Clients unless unless they also appar on the L Good-Clients list.  If mail relaying is *disabled*, then these two lists are+ not even used, as no mail relaying is done.d  O In short, Bad-Clients is not a list of systems to exclude; for that, one should:4 use the Reject-Mail-From and Accept-Mail-From lists.   Lawrence Bleau University of Maryland" Physics Dept., Space Physics Group 301-405-6223 bleau@umtof.umd.eduY   ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 23 Jun 2002 04:42:10 GMTB* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>E Subject: Re: Why porting apps to VMS isn't very helpful in most casesgC Message-ID: <CkcR8.395031$Oa1.28700324@bin8.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>D  < "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com> wrote in message( news:kgNQ8.104778$nZ3.43648@rwcrnsc53...   .../  I > The fabled $4B figure included systems, add-ons, apps, upgrades, and of L > course Services. Since Services and the other organizations count the sameH > revenue, the $4B figure would represent double- or triple-counting the same' > dollars in various different buckets.n >I >cH > One could always do the math: estimate the number of AlphaServers sold lastI > year (well under 100K, methinks), estimate the average CPU count (let'se say)H > 5 or so), estimate the revenue accruing from said servers, etc. Sorry, that > $4B dog won't hunt.   K Actually, it hunts just fine, and you're full of shit - as you have been in F this area for the past year, despite plenty of opportunities to becomeF educated (not that you've shown much interest in that as compared with  spouting the Compaq party line).  L 'Doing the math' even with the sketchy numbers you yourself provide above isI sufficient (which is fortunate, because I don't feel like digging throughfB Compaq's financial reports yet again just to refute your garbage).  K Start with the Alpha system run rate:  while it's very easy to believe thatrE it fell far below 100,000 systems last year (given that the AlphacideiI occurred before the year's mid-point, with merger anxiety following close0K upon its heels), it had prior to that been running regularly at around 100K0L systems annually, with VMS accounting for something like half of them (Tru64L was gaining ground fast and may have accounted for more than half last year,; but the $4b VMS number came from the 1999/2000 time-frame).n  H We've already heard (last December, in the response to Gartner) that VMSL brought in $2b annually in service revenue alone.  It seems more than likelyJ that most of that came from existing, rather than new, systems (especiallyL if one places any credence whatsoever in the 411,000 installed base figure).  L That leaves it up to the 50K new VMS systems to bring in the other $2b:  allL it takes is an average $40K price per system (averaging 5 processors apiece:L again, your number).  They could quite possibly have met that figure withoutC even including associated storage, though including it would not belK unreasonable:  if Compaq had refused to sell customers the VMS systems theyeI wanted, there's ample anecdotal evidence that at least many of them wouldhL have taken their business to a different vendor and the Compaq storage sales would have been lost as well.    - bill   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2002 18:59:31 GMTi+ From: Ryan Moore <rmoore@rmoore.dyndns.org>e Subject: Re: xml and all that < Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.31.0206241148310.5541-100000@jaipur>  H I was able to compile expat 1.95.1 under VMS.  I had to do a little workG though.  I think I ended up doing a ./configure on a Unix system to getgG a version of config.h created.  Then I moved the whole directory to VMShF and manually editted config.h to have the correct information for VMS.  G expat is a C-based SAX parser.  In my case, I'm parsing XML coming in aB0 TCP stream, so a SAX parser is most appropriate.  L You have to use cc/names=3Dshortened because some of the expat routine name= s- are longer than 32 characters.  3 If you need help getting this to work, let me know.   * On Mon, 24 Jun 2002, Warren Spencer wrote:1 > arne.vajhoej@gtech.com (Arne Vajh=F8j) wrote inu  > <3CF779C0.8D7DEBCF@gtech.com>: >c@ > >You can download Xerces and Xalan as both C/C++ and Java from > >the Compaq site.e >o > I visited this site: >SJ > http://www.openvms.compaq.com/openvms/products/ips/xml/Requirements.html >mF > And found xalan for Java and C++, but not C.  For those of us with CI > applications needing an XML upgrade, are there any C-based XML parsers?l   -Ryane   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2002 19:36:22 -0500sC From: "Craig A. Berry" <craig.berry@nospam.SignalTreeSolutions.com>c Subject: Re: xml and all that H Message-ID: <craig.berry-E1A24A.19362124062002@news.directvinternet.com>  5 In article <923786FE5warrenspencer1977@216.168.3.30>,y/  wspencer@ap.nospam.org (Warren Spencer) wrote:s   >  For those of us with C I > applications needing an XML upgrade, are there any C-based XML parsers?"  G The authoritative expat source repository now includes rudimentary VMS oH support.  I missed the 1.95.3 release by a couple of days in submitting F my additions, so the only way to get this support at the moment is to H download the latest source with CVS (Concurrent Versioning System).  Go  to  , <http://sourceforge.net/cvs/?group_id=10127>  C Follow the instructions for anonymous CVS access except instead of  H "modulename" put in "expat" to get the whole distribution.  CVS clients F are available for VMS in various places (I can't remember where I got  mine at the moment.)  A Once you have acquired the expat source, just set default to the e/ top-level directory of the distribution and do:    $ MMS/DESCRIP=[.VMS]   ------------------------------    Date: 24 Jun 2002 18:22:52 -0700, From: bubbapig@hotmail.com (Jeffrey Cameron)0 Subject: Re: Yet another PL/I <-> C question :-)= Message-ID: <b22333b7.0206241722.73ba2a99@posting.google.com>    Hey Tom,  < Thanks for the advice about the signalling, I had to put an    on storage begin;l   end;  C block AFTER my C/C++ code to re-catch the signal and it seems to besC working fine. I dont call any explicit signalling in my code (usingy  either signal() or lib$signal())    B And for the upteenth time, I have no choice here! The program I amE working on is a custom made matrix manipulation program developed for0> working with large sparse matrices. It consists of about 40-50? modules, most of which do some complicated matrix math, and alliF written in PL/I or FORTRAN. My project (which I only had 6 months for)E was to re-write the modules which read/write the matrix files to disklC for two reasons: 1. We dont have a lot of PL/I experience left, theaB two people who know it well will be retiring soon and most schoolsF dont teach it anymore and 2. We want to turn those portions into a COMD module that can talk with a SQL server database, i.e. read and writeF the data to SQL server. Something which PL/I in all its glory cant do.  A Not too mention the fact that my C++ code is running about 10-20%hF faster then the bloated code PL/I produces (i had to get a little shot in at PL/I! ;-) )M  = I appreciate that PL/I produces shorter programs but i am notrA altogether convinced it produces better programs, its very weakly F typed and lends itself to soem pretty unreadable programs sometimes. AA language which was meant to do everything does nothing well so tot speak :)  3 *hunkers down and waits for the inevitable flaming*p  - Thanks very much for your advice again thoughd      d "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> wrote in message news:<CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIMELAFDAA.tom@kednos.com>... > >-----Original Message-----r6 > >From: Jeffrey Cameron [mailto:bubbapig@hotmail.com]& > >Sent: Friday, June 21, 2002 6:08 AM > >To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com/ > >Subject: Yet another PL/I <-> C question :-): > >. > >sI > >I think I just about have the folds ironed out of my program right nowo? > >but one thing has popped up which I hvae trouble finding anyt > >literature on.  > >PH > >The PL/I program for which I am writing a C module to replace certainD > >aspects has in a particular procedure an on error statement whichI > >catches, among other things, the pli$storage condition. This of courseyE > >is triggered when an allocate statement blows up for one reason oroE > >another. In this particular case it appears as though it is out of1H > >virtual memory (although I have no idea how to look for the secondaryG > >error condition to make sure) as we work with very large matrices inE
 > >memory. > >uC > >Anyway in the original program with a particular matrix an alloclH > >statment fails and the on error statement is triggered and produces aC > >nice little error message which is safely handled and allows theaE > >program to continue, telling the user to try and display a smaller'H > >slice. The problem arises when I plug my C++ module into the program.H > >It and the module it replaces both allocate(d) memory for a matrix (aE > >compact version). This works fine and dandy, the program then goessG > >back to the PL/I code where it tries to allocate another large chunkcF > >of memory and here is where the program fails. The difference being@ > >that the version with the C module exits with the PLI-STORAGEF > >condition (apparently missing the on error handler for some reason): > >and the PL/I version exits nicely by using the handler. > G > The problem may be with the way  the C++ code interacts with signals. G > before returning control to the PL/I program, you may have to restorecD > the signal state to what the PL/I program had set up.  That is theK > advantage of working in a high-level language, you don't have to reinventt > the wheel with each program. > M > But it sounds to me that you are fixing things that you broke, that weren'td > broken.  l >  > >eC > >Why would the version with the C module not trigger the on erroreG > >handler present in the PL/I module, especially since it is PL/I coder> > >(executing AFTER the C code has finished) that triggers the/ > >pli$storage condition in the first place!!??. > >G	 > >Help!!  > >  > >---) > >Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.h= > >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).BB > >Version: 6.0.370 / Virus Database: 205 - Release Date: 6/5/2002 > >i > ---e( > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.< > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).A > Version: 6.0.370 / Virus Database: 205 - Release Date: 6/5/2002M   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2002 18:32:09 -0700l# From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> 0 Subject: RE: Yet another PL/I <-> C question :-)9 Message-ID: <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIEEOJFDAA.tom@kednos.com>n  G Actually, you can make direct calls to sql using known data structures,rL the names escape me now (was it sqlca?), it has been some years, but I built a sql preprocessorH for our PL/I compiler that runs on Tru64 and IBM provides same for their
 compilers,6 and Oracle used to provide a sql preprocessor as well.  . Don't expect any performance with COM modules.  K As for typing PL/I is known as a strongly typed languge, C as weakly typed.    >-----Original Message----- 4 >From: Jeffrey Cameron [mailto:bubbapig@hotmail.com]$ >Sent: Monday, June 24, 2002 6:23 PM >To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com1 >Subject: Re: Yet another PL/I <-> C question :-)g >p >a	 >Hey Tom,  >b< >Thanks for the advice about the signalling, I had to put an >h >on storage begin; >e >end;o >pD >block AFTER my C/C++ code to re-catch the signal and it seems to beD >working fine. I dont call any explicit signalling in my code (using! >either signal() or lib$signal())t >b >uC >And for the upteenth time, I have no choice here! The program I amLF >working on is a custom made matrix manipulation program developed for? >working with large sparse matrices. It consists of about 40-50n@ >modules, most of which do some complicated matrix math, and allG >written in PL/I or FORTRAN. My project (which I only had 6 months for)eF >was to re-write the modules which read/write the matrix files to diskD >for two reasons: 1. We dont have a lot of PL/I experience left, theC >two people who know it well will be retiring soon and most schoolsoG >dont teach it anymore and 2. We want to turn those portions into a COM,E >module that can talk with a SQL server database, i.e. read and write G >the data to SQL server. Something which PL/I in all its glory cant do.e > B >Not too mention the fact that my C++ code is running about 10-20%G >faster then the bloated code PL/I produces (i had to get a little shot  >in at PL/I! ;-) ) >g> >I appreciate that PL/I produces shorter programs but i am notB >altogether convinced it produces better programs, its very weaklyG >typed and lends itself to soem pretty unreadable programs sometimes. AhB >language which was meant to do everything does nothing well so to	 >speak :)c >e4 >*hunkers down and waits for the inevitable flaming* >o. >Thanks very much for your advice again though >  >  > / >"Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> wrote in message 6 >news:<CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIMELAFDAA.tom@kednos.com>... >> >-----Original Message-----7 >> >From: Jeffrey Cameron [mailto:bubbapig@hotmail.com] ' >> >Sent: Friday, June 21, 2002 6:08 AM  >> >To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comw0 >> >Subject: Yet another PL/I <-> C question :-) >> > >> >J >> >I think I just about have the folds ironed out of my program right now@ >> >but one thing has popped up which I hvae trouble finding any >> >literature on. >> >I >> >The PL/I program for which I am writing a C module to replace certain E >> >aspects has in a particular procedure an on error statement whichnJ >> >catches, among other things, the pli$storage condition. This of courseF >> >is triggered when an allocate statement blows up for one reason orF >> >another. In this particular case it appears as though it is out ofI >> >virtual memory (although I have no idea how to look for the secondaryoH >> >error condition to make sure) as we work with very large matrices in >> >memory.s >> >D >> >Anyway in the original program with a particular matrix an allocI >> >statment fails and the on error statement is triggered and produces a D >> >nice little error message which is safely handled and allows theF >> >program to continue, telling the user to try and display a smallerI >> >slice. The problem arises when I plug my C++ module into the program.uI >> >It and the module it replaces both allocate(d) memory for a matrix (aiF >> >compact version). This works fine and dandy, the program then goesH >> >back to the PL/I code where it tries to allocate another large chunkG >> >of memory and here is where the program fails. The difference beingeA >> >that the version with the C module exits with the PLI-STORAGEhG >> >condition (apparently missing the on error handler for some reason)l; >> >and the PL/I version exits nicely by using the handler.n >>H >> The problem may be with the way  the C++ code interacts with signals.H >> before returning control to the PL/I program, you may have to restoreE >> the signal state to what the PL/I program had set up.  That is thesL >> advantage of working in a high-level language, you don't have to reinvent >> the wheel with each program.o >>A >> But it sounds to me that you are fixing things that you broke, 
 >that weren'ti
 >> broken. >> >> >D >> >Why would the version with the C module not trigger the on errorH >> >handler present in the PL/I module, especially since it is PL/I code? >> >(executing AFTER the C code has finished) that triggers the20 >> >pli$storage condition in the first place!!?? >> >
 >> >Help!! >> > >> >---:* >> >Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.> >> >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).C >> >Version: 6.0.370 / Virus Database: 205 - Release Date: 6/5/2002  >> > >> ---) >> Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.s= >> Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). B >> Version: 6.0.370 / Virus Database: 205 - Release Date: 6/5/2002 >u >---' >Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.e; >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).iA >Version: 6.0.372 / Virus Database: 207 - Release Date: 6/20/2002o >  --- & Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.: Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).@ Version: 6.0.372 / Virus Database: 207 - Release Date: 6/20/2002   ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 23 Jun 2002 05:13:20 GMT * From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>> Subject: Re: [OT] Register - HP to roll Tru64 tools into HP-UXB Message-ID: <QNcR8.351609$Gs.27377881@bin5.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>  < "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com> wrote in message8 news:7nLQ8.103340$R61.35486@rwcrnsc52.ops.asp.att.net... >-A > "John Eisenschmidt" <jweisen@eisenschmidt.org> wrote in messaged0 > news:20020621114824.F13776@eisenschmidt.org...% > > Straight from the gossip's mouth:s > >e5 > > http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/3/25829.htmls > >aD > > "Hewlett Packard Co will deliver the clustering and file systemsK > extensions from Compaq's Tru64 Unix variant to its own HP-UX in 2004. ThegK > extensions will be delivered in the second version of HP's Unix operatingnG > system designed for both Intel Corp's Itanium 2 platform and HP's ownB > PA-RISC processors." > >e > > .. > >oB > > "The arrival of Tru64's TruCluster clustering capabilities and
 journalingJ > file system will come in 2004 with HP-UX 11i v3, to be followed by phase twouH > of the self-healing and self-tuning functionality with HP-UX 11i v3 in > 2005." >eC > Gossip? That's right off the HPQ product roadmaps which have been 	 available K > since 7 May. If you went to the ITUG/DECUS Symposium in Lyon you'da heardi > much more on the topic...a  I I don't remember any dates in the main roadmap (were there others on that I date?), just the mention of Tru64 clustering and AdvFS as examples of the K kinds of Tru64 features that would be worth porting.  But of course wording " may have changed in the interim...  L Nonetheless, I'll be duly impressed if HP-UX actually ships Tru64 clusteringI (or even AdvFS, though that's at least imaginable) in 2004.  Unless theiriF developers are so good that they don't consider field tests necessary.   - bill   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2002.346 ************************