1 INFO-VAX	Fri, 28 Jun 2002	Volume 2002 : Issue 353       Contents:; RE: A possible shift in the status of VMS ar HP ???? ERRATA & Re: Capellas resigns from Dynegy board& Re: Capellas resigns from Dynegy board& Re: Capellas resigns from Dynegy board& Commercialism (was: New VMS Marketing) DCL Backup Script  Re: DCL Backup Script @ Re: Deutsche Bank would like to outsource there IT to IBM or CSC@ Re: Deutsche Bank would like to outsource there IT to IBM or CSC@ Re: Deutsche Bank would like to outsource there IT to IBM or CSC@ Re: Deutsche Bank would like to outsource there IT to IBM or CSC@ Re: Deutsche Bank would like to outsource there IT to IBM or CSC@ Re: Deutsche Bank would like to outsource there IT to IBM or CSC@ Re: Deutsche Bank would like to outsource there IT to IBM or CSC@ Re: Deutsche Bank would like to outsource there IT to IBM or CSC@ Re: Deutsche Bank would like to outsource there IT to IBM or CSC DONT GET CAUGHT!  189  fab=cc$rms_fab Re: fab=cc$rms_fab Re: fab=cc$rms_fab Re: fab=cc$rms_fab( Re: Has SMTP RBL list worked for anyone?( RE: Has SMTP RBL list worked for anyone?( RE: Has SMTP RBL list worked for anyone? Re: HP HPTC in Oil & Gas Kudos to Process Software 2 LIB$FIND_FILE returns 99540 (Urgent help required)6 Re: LIB$FIND_FILE returns 99540 (Urgent help required)6 Re: LIB$FIND_FILE returns 99540 (Urgent help required)6 Re: LIB$FIND_FILE returns 99540 (Urgent help required)6 Re: LIB$FIND_FILE returns 99540 (Urgent help required)L LIB$FIND_FILE returns 99540( dynamic menory exhausted)[Urgent help required]P Re: LIB$FIND_FILE returns 99540( dynamic menory exhausted)[Urgent help required]P Re: LIB$FIND_FILE returns 99540( dynamic menory exhausted)[Urgent help required]F Moving Alpha system disks (Re: My conversation with Linus about VMS .., Re: My conversation with Linus about VMS ..., Re: My conversation with Linus about VMS ..., Re: My conversation with Linus about VMS ..., Re: My conversation with Linus about VMS ..., Re: My conversation with Linus about VMS ..., Re: My conversation with Linus about VMS ..., Re: My conversation with Linus about VMS ..., Re: My conversation with Linus about VMS ... RE: New VMS Marketing  RE: New VMS Marketing  Re: New VMS Marketing  Re: New VMS Marketing  Re: New VMS Marketing  RE: New VMS Marketing  Re: Open Letter to HP  Re: Quorum discussion/questions " Re: Sun benchmarketeering campaign" Re: Sun benchmarketeering campaign" Re: Sun benchmarketeering campaign" Re: Sun benchmarketeering campaign" Re: Sun benchmarketeering campaign" Re: Sun benchmarketeering campaign" Re: Sun benchmarketeering campaign
 Re: TCO study 
 Re: TCO study 
 Re: TCO study 
 Re: TCO study 
 Re: TCO study 
 Re: TCO study 
 Re: TCO study 
 Re: TCO study ! TCP transfer speed using UCX V4.2 
 Re: TCP/IP
 Re: TCP/IP Re: Trouble with BACKUP/RECORD Re: Trouble with BACKUP/RECORD Re: Trouble with BACKUP/RECORD Re: Trouble with Samba 2.0.3 when is a typo not a typo? Re: Xwindows: XDM mode Re: Xwindows: XDM mode  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2002 09:42:55 -0500 / From: "Stuart, Ed" <Ed.Stuart@austinenergy.com> D Subject: RE: A possible shift in the status of VMS ar HP ???? ERRATAT Message-ID: <92EFB80E551BD511B39500D0B7B0CDCC0642C5B9@ohms.electric.ci.austin.tx.us>  3 Keyboards don't flame people.  People flame people.    EdE **Please apply a generous amount of all the usual disclaimers here.**      > -----Original Message-----1 > From: David Froble [mailto:davef@tsoft-inc.com] ( > Sent: Wednesday, June 26, 2002 2:06 AM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com F > Subject: Re: A possible shift in the status of VMS ar HP ???? ERRATA >  >  > John Smith wrote:  > @ > > "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com> wrote in message= > > news:rg3S8.176145$6m5.147186@rwcrnsc51.ops.asp.att.net...  > >  > >>terry s $ > >>Shot in Foot With Own Gun, Again >  > 5 > When it's the foot, it's usually your own gun.  :-)  >  > >> > > G > > At the risk of starting a 'war', perhaps it's time for gun control?  >  > ; > I agree completely.  Let's keep them out of the hands of   > criminals and such, and 6 > in the hands of honest citizens.  Great gun control! >  > Dave >    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2002 19:16:45 +0010 % From: paddy.o'brien@zzz.tg.nsw.gov.au / Subject: Re: Capellas resigns from Dynegy board 5 Message-ID: <01KJH475BNXE00019E@tgmail.tg.nsw.gov.au>   
 Cjt wrote:  F >Maybe the job at the combined company is a lot tougher than expected. >  >JF Mezei wrote: >>  N >> Interesting on how, as CEO and president of Compaq, he had time to do this,P >> but now, as a mere civil servant within HP, he doesn't... My guess is that heM >> doesn't want to be associated with those Houston energy firms. It is a bad O >> omen though because I would have prefered for him to keep that job and leave 	 >> HP :-)  >>  = >> Dynegy Says Hewlett-Packard's Capellas Resigned From Board  >>   >>   6/25/02 9:08am  >>  M >>   WASHINGTON -(Dow Jones)- Dynegy Inc. (DYN) said that Hewlett-Packard Co.  >> (HPQ) PresidentJ >>   Michael Capellas told it June 18 that he was resigning from its board >> effective immediately.  >>  G >>   According to an 8-K filed Tuesday with the Securities and Exchange  >> Commission, Capellas O >>   resigned "in light of the demands on his time and his new responsibilities  >> at Hewlett-Packard."  >>  L >>   Dynegy said that Capellas' resignation wasn't based on any disagreement >> between it and  >>   Capellas. >>  Q >>   Capellas, formerly the chief executive at Compaq Computer, become president   of: >>   Hewlett-Packard when the two companies merged in May.  0 Probably too little money for such a high-flyer.   Regards, Paddy   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2002 07:41:43 -0400 2 From: Atlant Schmidt <atlantnospam@mindspring.com>/ Subject: Re: Capellas resigns from Dynegy board . Message-ID: <3D1C4B77.10D271EF@mindspring.com>  6 Dynergy is another one of those "pretend" corporations6 that is likely to become worthless once it's Potemkin-9 village nature is revealed. It exists only because of our 8 foolish American belief that corporations are certain to9 work in the public good if only there were no regulation, & no oversight, and no taxation of them.  0 And Capellas doesn't want to get caught with his fingerprints anywhere around.   , (Remember, Dynergy almost merged wih Enron!)   Atlant   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2002 12:31:35 GMT # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> / Subject: Re: Capellas resigns from Dynegy board G Message-ID: <HGYS8.13157$2er.1896@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>   A Maybe he can be convinced to resign from the board of HP too. ;-)     : "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message& news:3D19F343.5DF4CF2E@videotron.ca...G > Interesting on how, as CEO and president of Compaq, he had time to do  this, L > but now, as a mere civil servant within HP, he doesn't... My guess is that heL > doesn't want to be associated with those Houston energy firms. It is a badH > omen though because I would have prefered for him to keep that job and leave  > HP :-) >  > < > Dynegy Says Hewlett-Packard's Capellas Resigned From Board >  >   6/25/02 9:08am > L >   WASHINGTON -(Dow Jones)- Dynegy Inc. (DYN) said that Hewlett-Packard Co. > (HPQ) President I >   Michael Capellas told it June 18 that he was resigning from its board  > effective immediately. > F >   According to an 8-K filed Tuesday with the Securities and Exchange > Commission, Capellas= >   resigned "in light of the demands on his time and his new  responsibilities > at Hewlett-Packard." > K >   Dynegy said that Capellas' resignation wasn't based on any disagreement  > between it and
 >   Capellas.  > E >   Capellas, formerly the chief executive at Compaq Computer, become  president of9 >   Hewlett-Packard when the two companies merged in May.    ------------------------------    Date: 28 Jun 2002 08:50:08 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) / Subject: Commercialism (was: New VMS Marketing) 3 Message-ID: <jVXPeJQYiV3O@eisner.encompasserve.org>    In article <92EFB80E551BD511B39500D0B7B0CDCC0642C5B0@ohms.electric.ci.austin.tx.us>, "Stuart, Ed" <Ed.Stuart@austinenergy.com> writes:C > Since we like to keep advertisements out of the group if you're =  > interested- > in knowing who the VAR is send me an email.   H I have no burning need for the answer to the question (not asked by me),B and you can decline to post anything you choose in this newsgroup.  C But I doubt that anyone would think you posting the name of the VAR D (providing it is not AustinEnergy.com) as part of the discussion wasD an advertisement.  (It may be the VAR would rather not be named, but that is a separate issue.)  D People are forever posting comments about TCPware having SSH supportH and TCP/IP Services having NFS support for Extend Parse style filenames.: Comparisons of the support by VARs should be no different.  B When the vendor is doing the posting, they should be a little moreA careful, but are probably exempt from most criticism if what they  post is either:    	A response to an inquiry    or  	Genuinely brand new information  B and of course vendors are held to a stricter standard when postingB material that might be considered off topic.  (Like PCs for sale.)  C Vendors are treated differently only as regards their own products. B To date, I have not seen any incidents of collusion among vendors,B such as someone from Process Software praising hardware deals fromH Island about the same time that someone from Island praises Multinet :-)   ------------------------------    Date: 28 Jun 2002 04:18:00 -0700( From: robert_kersey@bat.com (Rob Kersey) Subject: DCL Backup Script= Message-ID: <f936a854.0206280317.62e04c73@posting.google.com>   C I have written the following .com file that is desinged to backup a B .log file that is continually being accessed and then opened in an editor to be read.  D It seems that I can't pass in a symbol as the file name to be backed up!   A Below is a copy of the DCL .com file. P1 is the name of a process  being passed in.   $ LOG = ".LOG" $! Set up environment ... ( $! Disable interupts and error commands. $  set nocontrol=yP $  define TEMPLOG DEVDISK:[BATDEV.STAGE2.VAX.DEV.RKERSEY.MHS_ADMIN_SCREENS.LOGS] $!                         $! Start of command file.  $START: # $! Clear page for operator screens.  $  TYPE/PAGE NL: $!3 $!Get location of log file from parameter passed in 
 $GETLOCATION:  $ PID = F$PID(CONTEXT)  $ NAME = F$GETJPI(PID, "PRCNAM")& $ LOCATION = F$GETJPI(PID, "IMAGNAME") $ IF P1 .EQS. NAME   $!Extract the files location  $     THEN LENGTH = F$LENGTH(P1) $          FILEPATH = F$EXTRACT * (F$LOCATE("]",LOCATION)+1,LENGTH,LOCATION)  $          LOGS = FILEPATH + LOG9 $          BACKUP/IGNORE=INTERLOCK LOGS TEMP.BCK /SAV/LOG , $          WRITE SYS$OUTPUT "SYMBOL ''LOGS'" $     ELSE GOTO GETLOCATION , $                                            $ ENDIF            $ 	 $VIEWLOG:  $ DEFINE SYS$INPUT SYS$COMMAND& $ BACKUP TEMP.BCK/SAV []TEMP.LOG /LOG  $ EDIT TEMPLOG:TEMP.LOG  $ WAIT 00:00:02  $ PURGE TEMPLOG:*.LOG  $ WAIT 00:00:02  $ EXIT   ------------------------------   Date: 28 Jun 2002 12:03:10 GMT3 From: gartmann@immunbio.mpg.de (Christoph Gartmann)  Subject: Re: DCL Backup Script0 Message-ID: <afhj9u$rt2$1@n.ruf.uni-freiburg.de>  h In article <f936a854.0206280317.62e04c73@posting.google.com>, robert_kersey@bat.com (Rob Kersey) writes:D >I have written the following .com file that is desinged to backup aD >..log file that is continually being accessed and then opened in an >editor to be read.  > E >It seems that I can't pass in a symbol as the file name to be backed  >up! > B >Below is a copy of the DCL .com file. P1 is the name of a process >being passed in.  >  >$ LOG = ".LOG"  >$! Set up environment ...) >$! Disable interupts and error commands.  >$  set nocontrol=y Q >$  define TEMPLOG DEVDISK:[BATDEV.STAGE2.VAX.DEV.RKERSEY.MHS_ADMIN_SCREENS.LOGS]  >$!                          >$! Start of command file. >$START:$ >$! Clear page for operator screens. >$  TYPE/PAGE NL:  >$! 4 >$!Get location of log file from parameter passed in >$GETLOCATION: >$ PID = F$PID(CONTEXT) ! >$ NAME = F$GETJPI(PID, "PRCNAM") ' >$ LOCATION = F$GETJPI(PID, "IMAGNAME")  >$ IF P1 .EQS. NAME  >$!Extract the files location ! >$     THEN LENGTH = F$LENGTH(P1)   >$          FILEPATH = F$EXTRACT+ >(F$LOCATE("]",LOCATION)+1,LENGTH,LOCATION) ! >$          LOGS = FILEPATH + LOG : >$          BACKUP/IGNORE=INTERLOCK LOGS TEMP.BCK /SAV/LOG*                                     'LOGS'L                                    Otherwise DCL won't interpret your symbol   Regards,    Christoph Gartmann   H -- --------------------------------------------------------------------+H | Max-Planck-Institut fuer      Phone   : +49-761-5108-464   Fax: -452 |H | Immunbiologie                                                        |H | Postfach 1169                 Internet: gartmann@immunbio.mpg.de     |H | D-79011  Freiburg, Germany                                           |H +--------- http://www.immunbio.mpg.de/home/english/menue.html ---------+H -- --------------------------------------------------------------------+H | Max-Planck-Institut fuer      Phone   : +49-761-5108-464   Fax: -452 |H | Immunbiologie                                                        |H | Postfach 1169                 Internet: gartmann@immunbio.mpg.de     |H | D-79011  Freiburg, Germany                                           |H +--------- http://www.immunbio.mpg.de/home/english/menue.html ---------+   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2002 08:46:00 +0100 ( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1>I Subject: Re: Deutsche Bank would like to outsource there IT to IBM or CSC ) Message-ID: <3D1C1438.F98C5ED9@127.0.0.1>    JF Mezei wrote:  >  > Sue Skonetski wrote:O > > JF there are a number of major banks/stock exchanges/financial institutions P > > that use OpenVMS.  There are several reasons that you may not see the actual
 > > names. > > G > > 1.  Many customers view their computer environment as a competitive F > > advantage and if they disclosed what they used they would lose the > > advantage. > K > Then Sue, perhaps you should find a way for senior execs outside of IT in O > those banks to be aware of the importance VMS plays in their own bank instead P > of allowing them to make departmental decisions with the idea that VMS is dead > and should be gotten rid of.  F There are also situations where it becomes a personal criminal offence8 to describe the systems that support the infrastructure.  H Marketing that would get you the equivalent of a firing squad. Or worse.   --  ? Regards, Nic Clews a.k.a. Mr. CP Charges, CSC Computer Sciences  nclews at csc dot com    ------------------------------    Date: 28 Jun 2002 01:04:53 -0700 From: dbarr@csc.com (Dave Barr) I Subject: Re: Deutsche Bank would like to outsource there IT to IBM or CSC = Message-ID: <8e2054e9.0206280004.595826a0@posting.google.com>   C I agree with Bob, CSC has a highly developed VMS support capability  spread around the globe.   -Dave   h koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) wrote in message news:<pr7E5Nc4$8AV@eisner.encompasserve.org>...a > In article <200206270721.JAA13261@sinet1.fom.fgan.de>, Rudolf Wingert <win@fom.fgan.de> writes: 
 > > Hello, > > G > > if this is right, what mean that for OpenVMS? Do Deutsche Bank have J > > OpenVMS? If yes, could IBM or CSC give them fully support for this OS? > D >    Assuming the initials CSC stands for us, we certainly can fully3 >    support VMS.  IIRC, that's about all Nic does.    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2002 10:17:55 +0100 ( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1>I Subject: Re: Deutsche Bank would like to outsource there IT to IBM or CSC ( Message-ID: <3D1C29C3.E37C4F0@127.0.0.1>   Bob Koehler wrote: > a > In article <200206270721.JAA13261@sinet1.fom.fgan.de>, Rudolf Wingert <win@fom.fgan.de> writes: 
 > > Hello, > > G > > if this is right, what mean that for OpenVMS? Do Deutsche Bank have J > > OpenVMS? If yes, could IBM or CSC give them fully support for this OS? > D >    Assuming the initials CSC stands for us, we certainly can fully3 >    support VMS.  IIRC, that's about all Nic does.    <smiles>   Let me clarify my role!   F Yes I'm a member in the Global VMS support team, and mixing AustralianH and American cultures with a bunch of English types is almost as much asB a challenge as some of the problems we cope with, but the user hasD access to 24 hour office based support from somewhere on the planet.G Sometimes it's me. Like now. As Graham rides off into the sunset in Oz,CB I pick up the torch of support. Next week I'm also covering the USF Independence, or at least UK (Pommy Land) and Oz between us. AmericansD getting holidays, almost unheard of. Systems don't so we provide the support.  F In addition, I contribute to internal general IT resourcing questions,C I've done more than just VMS, however I promote VMS within CSC, and A support new installations and configurations. Also I take part insE technology evaluation, global initiatives in technology [representingaG VMS] and unarmed hand-to-hand combat with other technologies within CSCn :-)E  H There's more, but that's enough for now. There's a cake sale for charityF upstairs, so before I go sampling wares, I'll leave you with this. DidF you know the magnets from a [dismantled] RZ23L drive are strong enough. to attract between the thickness of your hand? -- L? Regards, Nic Clews a.k.a. Mr. CP Charges, CSC Computer Sciences  nclews at csc dot comi   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2002 12:52:23 +0100q( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1>I Subject: Re: Deutsche Bank would like to outsource there IT to IBM or CSC9) Message-ID: <3D1C4DF7.470E93AC@127.0.0.1>r   Larry Kilgallen wrote: > s > In article <3d1ac85a.5513898@news.demon.co.uk>, Jim.Johnson@software-exploration.nospam.com (Jim Johnson) writes: G > > I don't know if they do or don't, but I'd be amazed if either wouldeJ > > not support a VMS installation under the correct incentives (much cash- > > now, or control now and more cash later).o > >S > > Jim. > >n@ > > On Thu, 27 Jun 2002 09:21:51 +0200 (MET DST), Rudolf Wingert > > <win@fom.fgan.de> wrote: > >n
 > >>Hello, > >>G > >>if this is right, what mean that for OpenVMS? Do Deutsche Bank havekJ > >>OpenVMS? If yes, could IBM or CSC give them fully support for this OS? > >>" > >>TIA and regards Rudolf Wingert > I > Both IBM and CSC have quite competent VMS people among their employees. = > One of the CSC folk is a major contributor to comp.os.vms !a  H There's a few of us, not all of us post from CSC addresses, in fact most@ don't post using this news server or even a CSC email address...  H There's one that sometimes beats me to answering things, but that's only' cos they're a few hours ahead of me ;-)   E However I should also say that IBM have VMS support capability, we'veeA taken on some contracts involving VMS where IBM were the previous 
 incumbent. -- ?? Regards, Nic Clews a.k.a. Mr. CP Charges, CSC Computer Sciences- nclews at csc dot com-   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2002 08:24:17 -0400 2 From: rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger)I Subject: Re: Deutsche Bank would like to outsource there IT to IBM or CSC-L Message-ID: <rdeininger-2806020824180001@11cust122.tnt3.nashua.nh.da.uu.net>  2 In article <3D1C29C3.E37C4F0@127.0.0.1>, Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1> wrote:   " >... I'll leave you with this. DidG >you know the magnets from a [dismantled] RZ23L drive are strong enoughv/ >to attract between the thickness of your hand?0  2 I've done similar stuff with magnets from an RZ74.  @ However, getting two of these magnet sets too near each other isD dangerous.  They are so strong they'll jump several inches and smackG together.  Can't get them apart without clamps and levers and such.  IfaA you happen to get a finger in between, it will be seriously hurt.n   ------------------------------    Date: 28 Jun 2002 07:22:00 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen),I Subject: Re: Deutsche Bank would like to outsource there IT to IBM or CSCk3 Message-ID: <x46piWEQqvX5@eisner.encompasserve.org>   T In article <3D1C4DF7.470E93AC@127.0.0.1>, Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1> writes:  G > However I should also say that IBM have VMS support capability, we'vedC > taken on some contracts involving VMS where IBM were the previousg > incumbent.  E And all VMS fans (including HP) should want multiple vendors offeringe VMS support.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2002 08:29:51 -0500>( From: David Harrold <DHarrold@wi.rr.com>I Subject: Re: Deutsche Bank would like to outsource there IT to IBM or CSCn8 Message-ID: <j2pohu0l6rttc43rsi93uub24v9qhdosb8@4ax.com>  M On Fri, 28 Jun 2002 10:17:55 +0100, Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1> wrote:u   [snip]  H >VMS] and unarmed hand-to-hand combat with other technologies within CSC >:-) >g  I Well, that's certainly no fun.  Currently arrayed around the cubicle (for0M strictly defensive purposes) are several Nerf weapons and several coffee cupsa< full of ammo.  Also a couple of light sabers as backup.  ;-)   :-)    Dave Harrold    N ..............................................................................N David Harrold                              E-Mail: David_Harrold at aurora.orgI Sr. Software Systems Engineer              Phone:          (414) 647-6204>I                                            Pager:          (414) 941-4634aG Aurora Health Care                         Fax:          (414) 647-4999  3031 W. Montana Street Milwaukee, WI 53215t   ------------------------------    Date: 28 Jun 2002 12:38:40 -0600+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young)oI Subject: Re: Deutsche Bank would like to outsource there IT to IBM or CSC-3 Message-ID: <tVmpDhCdoALx@eisner.encompasserve.org>   S In article <3D1C29C3.E37C4F0@127.0.0.1>, Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1> writes:m > Bob Koehler wrote: >>  b >> In article <200206270721.JAA13261@sinet1.fom.fgan.de>, Rudolf Wingert <win@fom.fgan.de> writes: >> > Hello,e >> >H >> > if this is right, what mean that for OpenVMS? Do Deutsche Bank haveK >> > OpenVMS? If yes, could IBM or CSC give them fully support for this OS?k >> hE >>    Assuming the initials CSC stands for us, we certainly can fullyt4 >>    support VMS.  IIRC, that's about all Nic does. >    > J > There's more, but that's enough for now. There's a cake sale for charityH > upstairs, so before I go sampling wares, I'll leave you with this. DidH > you know the magnets from a [dismantled] RZ23L drive are strong enough0 > to attract between the thickness of your hand?   	Not just RZ23 by the way.  C 	Sure... did you know they also make excellent refrigerator magnetstG 	as the kid's drawings get larger and unwieldy?  Excellent conversationrF 	topic is to have a friend come along and challenge them to lift (not D 	slide) the magnet off the refrigerator.  Several pinched fingers in
 	the process.e   				Roba   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2002 13:55:29 -0400c- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>bI Subject: Re: Deutsche Bank would like to outsource there IT to IBM or CSCd+ Message-ID: <3D1CA311.BBBF892@videotron.ca>l   Nic Clews wrote:H > There are also situations where it becomes a personal criminal offence: > to describe the systems that support the infrastructure.  C And it is a worse criminal offesen for senior VPs of such financialiM institutiuons to contract with an external firm without any written contracts F for 15 years especially when the work handles the flow of confidentialC customer information, especially when such inforamtion is libelous.i@ (insinuating that such and such attempted/perpretrated a fraud).   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2002 07:36:42 GMTl From: willy5net4@hotmail.com Subject: DONT GET CAUGHT!  189H Message-ID: <emUS8.28145$MIK.16163@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>  kHave you ever left a bar or a friends house after a couple of drinks and thought you were under the limit and OK to drive until you blew over after being stopped by the police. Yeah, it happened to me! I lost my license, lost my job, spent thousands on a lawyer and now have a criminal record. All because I had two beers and a shooter and blew 1.0 blood alcohol.o   DO NOT get caught off guard. Get your own BREATHALYZER and rest assured that you are under the legal limit to drive a motor vehicle.  gWE HAVE ALL BEEN THERE!  You have a few drinks and something to eat and think we are OK to drive but how do you know for sure. I mean, we all know when we are drunk and way over the legal limit to drive but, how do you know when you are close to the legal limit. The cost of being wrong is way too high. And if you get into an accident you are really screwed.    GET A BREATHALYZER NOW SO YOU WILL KNOW WHETHER YOU CAN DRIVE OR HAVE TO WAIT ANOTHER 30 MINUTES WITH A CUP OF COFFEE AND A SANDWICH!t   CHECK IT OUT AT:  = http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1362651458i   WE HAVE PLENTY OF BREATHALYZERS IN STOCK SO CONTACT US IF YOU NEED ONE. EVEN IF YOU DO NOT BUY OURS, GET YOURSELF ONE IF YOU DRINK SOCIALLY AND DRIVE.  . BE RESPONSIBLE!   IT IS NOT WORTH BEING WRONG!
 igzxjtvnqd   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2002 13:19:42 +0530 # From: "Vivek Soni" <visoni@bmc.com>c Subject: fab=cc$rms_fabk. Message-ID: <uho55e772vb3f@corp.supernews.com>   Hi,y  9 struct FAB fab=cc$rms_fab;   /*God knows what this does*/y struct NAM nam=cc$rms_nam;  ? I think I have spend enough time to get some info/docs on this.   < Could anybody help me with the link of page for more info on   fab=cc$rms_fab   Thanks in Advance- Vivek-   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2002 09:17:14 GMTR? From: Jim.Johnson@software-exploration.nospam.com (Jim Johnson)6 Subject: Re: fab=cc$rms_fabe/ Message-ID: <3d1c28eb.9373358@news.demon.co.uk>t  F RMS structures contain a number of fields that need to be initialized.@ Given that a number of them are normally initialized to the sameE values (e.g. fab$b_bln will always be FAC$C_BLN), C tries to help youpC out by providing 'template' RMS structures that you can start from..  D So, the statement 'fab = cc$rms_fab' is copying in the template FAB,E thus initializing your fab to a valid state.  From there you can make.C the modifications that you need (which are likely to be less than a  full setup of the FAB).    Jim.    A On Fri, 28 Jun 2002 13:19:42 +0530, "Vivek Soni" <visoni@bmc.com>! wrote:   >Hi, > : >struct FAB fab=cc$rms_fab;   /*God knows what this does*/ >struct NAM nam=cc$rms_nam;( >,@ >I think I have spend enough time to get some info/docs on this. >E= >Could anybody help me with the link of page for more info onP >  >fab=cc$rms_fabT >  >Thanks in Advance >Vivek >I >+   Jim JohnsonO Software Exploration, Ltd.) (remove '.nospam' from the reply address)K   ------------------------------    Date: 28 Jun 2002 07:51:21 -0600- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)  Subject: Re: fab=cc$rms_fab 3 Message-ID: <92mP+ieFafla@eisner.encompasserve.org>T  T In article <uho55e772vb3f@corp.supernews.com>, "Vivek Soni" <visoni@bmc.com> writes: > ; > struct FAB fab=cc$rms_fab;   /*God knows what this does*/- > struct NAM nam=cc$rms_nam; >   =    Of course God know what this does.  He can read.  This is t@    documented in the C User's Guide which can be found online at'    http://www.openvms.compaq.com/doc/ .c   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2002 14:05:10 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>w Subject: Re: fab=cc$rms_fabd, Message-ID: <3D1CA554.246424F3@videotron.ca>  = > > struct FAB fab=cc$rms_fab;   /*God knows what this does*/I > > struct NAM nam=cc$rms_nam; > >     C Of course Hoff and Fred know what this does :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-)m   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2002 10:45:58 +0100 ( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1>1 Subject: Re: Has SMTP RBL list worked for anyone? ) Message-ID: <3D1C3056.94A3B946@127.0.0.1>.   Lawrence Bleau wrote:_ > ? > If you are running TCPIP V5.1 (AXP) and you are using the RBLlH > (realtime blockhole list) feature, have you ever seen evidence that it > works?  B I don't quite fit into the parameters above, however I'm using RBL checks.C  E HOWEVER its not working. The reason is, my ISP caches all the mail on D their servers, and by the time it arrives on my box, they are coming from a valid (ISP) server.  F (I have enquired about them using RBLs, but they choose not to at this point)  @ However, I trace just about as much spam as I can using (mainly)H samspade.org and having downloaded the tool, most of the SPAM I get does! not come from RBL listed domains.   B SPAM changes domains so often, and spammers discover yet more openE relays, that keeping up with it is difficult. I estimate I would only-1 filter less than 5% of my total spam using a RBL.    http://samspade.org/   http://samspade.org/ssw/  E Unfortunately its for a Windows environment, but a spammer is a lower H form of life than a crap operating system. It contains RBL checks, abuseF address information where it exists, tracing, safe web browsing, a fewE other oddments that make spam tracing a rewarding activity. I cut and-G paste the results to a VMS session which sends the offending message tok- where something can usually be done about it.   G In my view, this is better than simply mass rejecting the junk, without H enforceable legislation this will be the only way to attack the problem.  D Speaking personally, the biggest problem comes from China and Korea,> they just have NOT got a clue how to set up a proper computing9 environment, they are installing relays by the truckload.    -- r? Regards, Nic Clews a.k.a. Mr. CP Charges, CSC Computer Sciences. nclews at csc dot comu   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2002 09:40:41 -05001$ From: "Art Beane" <beane@petris.com>1 Subject: RE: Has SMTP RBL list worked for anyone?a7 Message-ID: <004001c21eb1$c6e33960$352810ac@petris.com>i  D It's not an OpenVMS solution, but we're using Praetor on a dedicatedE server to filter SMTP mail and use relays.ordb.org for RBL with great 	 success. v  B A "praetor" (as in praetorian guard) is a defender of the emperor.   ------------------------------    Date: 28 Jun 2002 09:52:27 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)o1 Subject: RE: Has SMTP RBL list worked for anyone?c3 Message-ID: <pA6YMZd0WcbO@eisner.encompasserve.org>   ^ In article <004001c21eb1$c6e33960$352810ac@petris.com>, "Art Beane" <beane@petris.com> writes:F > It's not an OpenVMS solution, but we're using Praetor on a dedicatedG > server to filter SMTP mail and use relays.ordb.org for RBL with great  > success. t > D > A "praetor" (as in praetorian guard) is a defender of the emperor.  : 	Praetor - the filtering product for people with delusions
 		of grandeur-   			:-)   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2002 11:30:58 +0100 U From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <andrew_nospam.harrison_remove_this@sun#.com> ! Subject: Re: HP HPTC in Oil & Gas50 Message-ID: <afhdrc$1f7$2@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   Bill Todd wrote:  1 > "Art Beane" <beane@petris.com> wrote in messageb3 > news:009e01c21dfb$3d7156f0$352810ac@petris.com...r >  > ...m >  > E >>My personal opinion is that 2-P 64-bit blade servers (256+ CPUs per7I >>rack) would make killer seismic systems, but the server guys don't want D >>to build them because of power and heat dissipation problems while >>running at full speed. >>    5 Now if IA-64 wasn't the only long term building blockh6 available to them then this would not be a problem but sadly it is.  4 I guess blades hadn't been thought of in the dim and, distant past when IA-64 was being developed.   Shame,   regards2 Andrew Harrison      > H > 64 bits?  Low cost?  Dual-processor?  Smoking Bricks of Death need not > apply? > / > Sounds like the ideal Clawhammer application.F >  > - bill >  >  >  >    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2002 09:22:16 -0700i- From: "Russell E. Owen" <owen@nospam.invalid> " Subject: Kudos to Process Software2 Message-ID: <afi2fp$1ibs$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu>  B Just wanted to publicly thank Process Software for great customer D support. I submitted a change request for their Multinet ftp server I (that it resolve logical names even if they didn't end with colons, i.e. cE when changing directories). I didn't have to use an official form or dH anything, they took it seriously and gave me a patch (still private, to  be publicly released later).  G (I then thanked them by turning around and submitting a similar change  / request for their sftp server. Such gratitude.).  I But really, I was very pleased and impressed. It stands out all the more  D at this time, when many companies will scarcely deign to accept bug  reports.  
 -- Russell   ------------------------------    Date: 28 Jun 2002 06:01:44 -0700- From: mvsjetti@hss.hns.com (Mahesh V S Jetti)p; Subject: LIB$FIND_FILE returns 99540 (Urgent help required)u= Message-ID: <adb15ffe.0206280501.2c791914@posting.google.com>t   Hi,i  nE  I had a pascal file which had a call to LIB$FIND_FILE that gives theaE  latest version of the file.But problem is some times it is returningeF  value of 99540 even though file exists . i tried to search what this @  value means. But i was  not able to get any information on whenC  LIB$FIND_FILE returns a value  of 99540 and what this value means.lH  Can u please help me to get some  idea about it.Any help will be highly
  appreciated.n    Thanks and regards,  Mahesht   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2002 08:27:38 -0500 C From: "Craig A. Berry" <craig.berry@nospam.SignalTreeSolutions.com>-? Subject: Re: LIB$FIND_FILE returns 99540 (Urgent help required) H Message-ID: <craig.berry-D86AEC.08273828062002@news.directvinternet.com>  = In article <adb15ffe.0206280501.2c791914@posting.google.com>,0/  mvsjetti@hss.hns.com (Mahesh V S Jetti) wrote:<  G >  I had a pascal file which had a call to LIB$FIND_FILE that gives the.G >  latest version of the file.But problem is some times it is returning H >  value of 99540 even though file exists . i tried to search what this B >  value means. But i was  not able to get any information on whenE >  LIB$FIND_FILE returns a value  of 99540 and what this value means.(J >  Can u please help me to get some  idea about it.Any help will be highly >  appreciated.s  # $ write sys$output f$message(99540)D$ %RMS-F-DME, dynamic memory exhausted   Tryd   $ help/message dme   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2002 13:30:40 GMT  From: system@SendSpamHere.ORGo? Subject: Re: LIB$FIND_FILE returns 99540 (Urgent help required) 0 Message-ID: <00A1020E.EE50235B@SendSpamHere.ORG>  m In article <adb15ffe.0206280501.2c791914@posting.google.com>, mvsjetti@hss.hns.com (Mahesh V S Jetti) writes:S >Hi, > F > I had a pascal file which had a call to LIB$FIND_FILE that gives theF > latest version of the file.But problem is some times it is returningG > value of 99540 even though file exists . i tried to search what this oA > value means. But i was  not able to get any information on when?D > LIB$FIND_FILE returns a value  of 99540 and what this value means.I > Can u please help me to get some  idea about it.Any help will be highly  > appreciated. >  > Thanks and regards,s > Mahesh   $ EXIT 99540$ %RMS-F-DME, dynamic memory exhausted   Try:   $ HELP/MESSAGE DME M  
 for starters.- --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COMD            05   "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?"     ------------------------------    Date: 28 Jun 2002 08:35:08 -0600- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) ? Subject: Re: LIB$FIND_FILE returns 99540 (Urgent help required) 3 Message-ID: <ISif4eSR29OI@eisner.encompasserve.org>t  m In article <adb15ffe.0206280501.2c791914@posting.google.com>, mvsjetti@hss.hns.com (Mahesh V S Jetti) writes:a > Hi,e >   G >  I had a pascal file which had a call to LIB$FIND_FILE that gives thenG >  latest version of the file.But problem is some times it is returning-H >  value of 99540 even though file exists . i tried to search what this B >  value means. But i was  not able to get any information on whenE >  LIB$FIND_FILE returns a value  of 99540 and what this value means.cJ >  Can u please help me to get some  idea about it.Any help will be highly >  appreciated..  G    Pass the return value to sys$exit() and it will tell you what you'rei    doing wrong.e   ------------------------------   Date: 28 Jun 2002 13:19:16 GMT3 From: gartmann@immunbio.mpg.de (Christoph Gartmann)n? Subject: Re: LIB$FIND_FILE returns 99540 (Urgent help required)-/ Message-ID: <afhnok$2v$1@n.ruf.uni-freiburg.de>0  m In article <adb15ffe.0206280501.2c791914@posting.google.com>, mvsjetti@hss.hns.com (Mahesh V S Jetti) writes:oF > I had a pascal file which had a call to LIB$FIND_FILE that gives theF > latest version of the file.But problem is some times it is returningG > value of 99540 even though file exists . i tried to search what this gA > value means. But i was  not able to get any information on whenlD > LIB$FIND_FILE returns a value  of 99540 and what this value means.I > Can u please help me to get some  idea about it.Any help will be highlyo > appreciated.  $ %RMS-F-DME, dynamic memory exhausted   DME, dynamic memory exhausted.  1 Facility: RMS, OpenVMS Record Management Servicesi  B Explanation: Available memory was exhausted during an RMS recoveryL operation. The related I/O segment in the control region may be too full forL direct access to a process-permanent file; the program region cannot be usedK for I/O buffers; there are too many indirect command levels; or the program0' has reached virtual memory limitations.t  J User Action: Check that the program has not grown too big as the result ofI a programming error. Relink the image to allow RMS buffers in the programkI region or a larger image I/O section. You may also choose to increase thecC value of the System Generation utility (SYSGEN) parameter PIOPAGES.s     DME, dynamic memory exhausted   1 Facility: RMS, OpenVMS Record Management Services2  B Explanation: OpenVMS RMS was unable to allocate additional process> memory for the given request (usually an RMS $OPEN or $CONNECTJ system service call). Such requests can require a large number of buffers,- large buffer sizes, or a combination of both.   I User Action: Increase the amount of available process memory, or decreaser( the size or number of requested buffers.E For process permanent files (such as DCL OPEN, DCL command procedureseD using @filename, SYS$INPUT, SYS$OUTPUT, SYS$ERROR, and batch logH files), the size of available memory is governed by the SYSGEN parameterF PIOPAGES. The number of buffers and their sizes is governed by the DCLG command SET RMS. Only 63 process permanent files can be opened at once;t: any attempt to open more such files produces this message.@ For image files, process memory is governed by the UAF parameter; PGFLQUOTA and the SYSGEN parameter VIRTUALPAGECNT. The sizetG and number of buffers is controlled by the application, the DCL command	 SET RMS, or both.-C Image buffer space can also be controlled with the linker option ofF= IOSEGMENT, which can determine the amount of fixed RMS memoryaJ allocated and the process region in which it is allocated. See the OpenVMS. Linker Utility Manual for further information.   Regards,    Christoph Gartmannm  H -- --------------------------------------------------------------------+H | Max-Planck-Institut fuer      Phone   : +49-761-5108-464   Fax: -452 |H | Immunbiologie                                                        |H | Postfach 1169                 Internet: gartmann@immunbio.mpg.de     |H | D-79011  Freiburg, Germany                                           |H +--------- http://www.immunbio.mpg.de/home/english/menue.html ---------+   ------------------------------    Date: 28 Jun 2002 07:09:38 -0700- From: mvsjetti@hss.hns.com (Mahesh V S Jetti):U Subject: LIB$FIND_FILE returns 99540( dynamic menory exhausted)[Urgent help required]g= Message-ID: <adb15ffe.0206280609.3e0a6cd9@posting.google.com>   	 Hi craig,n    Thanks for the help.nD In my pascal file i am calling LIB$FIND_FILE at different locations.L But i am not calling  LIB$FIND_FILE_END  to deallocate the context allocated when we call LIB$FIND_FILE.   F Is it possible to get the following problem due to the above scenario?  # $ write sys$output f$message(99540)h$ %RMS-F-DME, dynamic memory exhausted  C Are there any means of increasing the dynamic memory by tuning somee" system parameters or by any means?  2 Thank you once again for the information provided.   Regards, mahesh  = In article <adb15ffe.0206280501.2c791914@posting.google.com>,a/  mvsjetti@hss.hns.com (Mahesh V S Jetti) wrote:y  G >  I had a pascal file which had a call to LIB$FIND_FILE that gives theaG >  latest version of the file.But problem is some times it is returningEG >  value of 99540 even though file exists . i tried to search what thisIB >  value means. But i was  not able to get any information on whenE >  LIB$FIND_FILE returns a value  of 99540 and what this value means.1J >  Can u please help me to get some  idea about it.Any help will be highly >  appreciated.O  # $ write sys$output f$message(99540)D$ %RMS-F-DME, dynamic memory exhausted   Try    $ help/message dme   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2002 14:39:44 GMT $ From: "labadie" <labadie_g@decus.fr>Y Subject: Re: LIB$FIND_FILE returns 99540( dynamic menory exhausted)[Urgent help required]o2 Message-ID: <Qy_S8.17$zl7.388124@news.cpqcorp.net>  : "Mahesh V S Jetti" <mvsjetti@hss.hns.com> wrote in message7 news:adb15ffe.0206280609.3e0a6cd9@posting.google.com...  > Hi craig,  >p >  Thanks for the help. F > In my pascal file i am calling LIB$FIND_FILE at different locations.D > But i am not calling  LIB$FIND_FILE_END  to deallocate the context	 allocatedn > when we call LIB$FIND_FILE.. > H > Is it possible to get the following problem due to the above scenario? >e   Yesn  G To avoid many channels leaks, you should always call  LIB$FIND_FILE_ENDa6 after LIB$FIND_FILE, no matter what the return status.  J If your filespec contains a search list, it does not look like a wildcard, but it behaves like one...   Regards    Grard   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2002 14:42:29 GMT ? From: Jim.Johnson@software-exploration.nospam.com (Jim Johnson)iY Subject: Re: LIB$FIND_FILE returns 99540( dynamic menory exhausted)[Urgent help required] 0 Message-ID: <3d1c757f.28977176@news.demon.co.uk>  F On 28 Jun 2002 07:09:38 -0700, mvsjetti@hss.hns.com (Mahesh V S Jetti) wrote:  
 >Hi craig, >A > Thanks for the help.E >In my pascal file i am calling LIB$FIND_FILE at different locations.hM >But i am not calling  LIB$FIND_FILE_END  to deallocate the context allocatede >when we call LIB$FIND_FILE. >nG >Is it possible to get the following problem due to the above scenario?i  ( Over time it is almost a dead certainty.   >.$ >$ write sys$output f$message(99540)% >%RMS-F-DME, dynamic memory exhausted8 >nD >Are there any means of increasing the dynamic memory by tuning some# >system parameters or by any means?-  B Yes, but this will not solve your problem.  It will, at best, move7 back the point where you fail.  You really need to calli LIB$FIND_FILE_END.   Fwiw,$ Jim.   >/3 >Thank you once again for the information provided._ >;	 >Regards,O >maheshG >k> >In article <adb15ffe.0206280501.2c791914@posting.google.com>,0 > mvsjetti@hss.hns.com (Mahesh V S Jetti) wrote: >tH >>  I had a pascal file which had a call to LIB$FIND_FILE that gives theH >>  latest version of the file.But problem is some times it is returningH >>  value of 99540 even though file exists . i tried to search what thisC >>  value means. But i was  not able to get any information on whensF >>  LIB$FIND_FILE returns a value  of 99540 and what this value means.K >>  Can u please help me to get some  idea about it.Any help will be highly- >>  appreciated. > $ >$ write sys$output f$message(99540)% >%RMS-F-DME, dynamic memory exhaustedR >H >Try >B >$ help/message dmeo   Jim JohnsonD Software Exploration, Ltd.) (remove '.nospam' from the reply address)u   ------------------------------   Date: 28 Jun 2002 08:24:11 GMT7 From: sy18889@rabmbit.famrp.cosm (Bradford J. Hamilton)aO Subject: Moving Alpha system disks (Re: My conversation with Linus about VMS ..R! Message-ID: <TIBwvOgUeHWh@rabbit>k  G To put a practical cast on this issue, I offer a real-life example:	:-)h  K Our shop consists of PCI-based Alphas, and older DEC7000's with a differenthJ backplane (XMI bus).  The system disk from an XMI-based machine *could* beF plunked into a PCI-based machine, but you would have to massage TCP/IPN services, for instance, which treats PCI and XMI ethernet cards with different names.  B So, yes, you can move a system disk around, but depending upon the0 architecture, certain things need to be changed.  c In article <3D1C531D.DEB68CC1@mindspring.com>, Atlant Schmidt <atlantnospam@mindspring.com> writes:m > jlsue wrote: > 5 >> On Thu, 27 Jun 2002 08:15:14 -0400, Atlant Schmidtn' >> <atlantnospam@mindspring.com> wrote:m >> >> >Lyndon Bartels wrote:s >> >M >> >> I said that no matter what, as long as it's alpha, I can take my systemaM >> >> disk and move it from one box to another, and it'll work. I may have toiA >> >> retune, but I can get a basic OS running with no changes...o >> >>g= >> >> The person's response.... "Wow,  that's *REALLY* nice."  >> >* >> >It'd be even better if it were *TRUE*. >> >'Shame it's not, ehh?o >> >
 >> >Atlant >> > >>" >> Why do you make this statement?D >> I KNOW that I can boot my system disk on any VMS-supported Alpha.C >> I've done it and even performed off-line VMS upgrades for entireg( >> VMSclusters by using this capability. > 8 > Note the change from the original statement "no matter; > what, as long as it's an Alpha" to your re-cast "any VMS--9 > supported Alpha". There's a world of difference between4 > those two. >  > Next strawman? >  > Atlant >  >  -- s Bradford J. Hamilton& braMdhamAilPtoSn@aMtAtPbi.cSom		(home)& sMy1A88P89S@rabMbit.fAmPr.coSm		(work)  ; "All opinions that I express are my own, not my employer's"  "Lose the MAPS"S   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2002 08:03:41 -0400t2 From: Atlant Schmidt <atlantnospam@mindspring.com>5 Subject: Re: My conversation with Linus about VMS ...n. Message-ID: <3D1C509D.400DA484@mindspring.com>   Don Sykes wrote:  P > The Unix's are lower on the list, because only the most inner kernel seemed toP > be engineered at all. Instead they rely on many facilities that look like theyN > were created as school projects (VI for example). Each with its own look and > feel.r  4 Ahh! Editor wars! Almost as much fun as OS wars! :->  4 vi was designed by Bill Joy, who is now (IIRC) Sun's6 CTO. If he did vi as a school project (and he probably3 did; I'm pretty sure it was written while he was atr6 Berkeley), I guess you could say he earned high marks.  8 Whether or not you like vi seems to be very personality-7 dependent; most seem to love it or hate it and very few_ are indifferent about it.@  3 Contrary to popular belief, vi can be a *VERY, VERY-7 POWERFUL* editor. But it requires thinking in vi terms,t5 not in EDT, TPU, or Emacs terms. And you need to knowb6 a lot of vi before that power becomes apparent. A good9 way to figure out whether you're talking to a vi maven ist6 to ask them if they know what the "." command does. Or1 ask them to show you how to use ex global search-  and-replace.  0     (Interesting footnote: Did you know that the.      term "grep" comes from the old ed command8     [still present in ex] for "g/<regular-expression/p",7      that is, globally search the editor buffer for the /      regular-expression and print [display] them      results?)  / EDT (as customized by me) remains my absolutelya3 favorite editor, so when I made the switch from VMS 5 to Solaris, you'd think I would have naturally fallenp3 ino the Emacs/XEmacs camp. And I tried; believe me,i4 I tried! I even wrote a bunch of Lisp customizations- and made the EDT keypad mode work again (it's11 documented as not working!). But I just never gotl0 used to key combinations like triple-meta-shift-- bucky-bleen and can't understand why *ANYONE*u1 ever thought that was a good idea. Not to mentione3 that launching Emacs requires making an appointmento9 a day ahead, and opening a file means taking a tea-break.s  /     (Don't bother correcting me, you and I bothc3      know I'm exagerating, but opening a file stilll2      requires several bizarre keystrokes or a pass2      through a GUI, and it will be several seconds7      before all the bells stop ringing and the whistless3      whistling and you can get back to work editings      again.)  0 So these days, I'm almost exclusively a vi user.. I've learned all those arcane commands and try7 to use them regularly. And I can get through an editing + project nearly as fast as I used to in EDT.-  4 (And as a lark, I implemented most of the EDT keypad7 in vi. Did you know that could be done? :-) I don't useN it much, though.)0  0 And if you miss things like syntax-coloring (for* damned-near any language) and would like a( less-modey and can be more-Gooey editor,( there's always vim and gvim (vi iMproved and graphical vi Improved).b  . But I can certainly understand why some people0 *DON'T* like vi. It certainly isn't TPU! But I'm thankful for that.   Atlant   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2002 08:12:39 -0400 2 From: Atlant Schmidt <atlantnospam@mindspring.com>5 Subject: Re: My conversation with Linus about VMS ...h. Message-ID: <3D1C52B7.9C84F6A5@mindspring.com>   JF Mezei wrote:-  7 > I have never liked the text editors on the MAC or PC.   7 Macs had the problem that a lot of folks don't corectlyt6 draw the distinction between word processing programs,* toy editors, and real studly text-editors.  + MacWord, ClarisWorks, AppleWorks, WriteNow,o0 MS Word, Word Perfect, and the like are all word: processors. Great with variable-picthed fonts, formatting,1 and such, and absolutely useless as a studly text  editor.N  - TeachText and SimpleText are little more thanf/ toys, widgets provided to allow you to read the  READMEs.  - bbedit (from Bare Bones Software), though, is + a serious, very studly text editor for codel0 hackers. It comes with nearly all the bells-and-/ whistles you need including syntax coloring fora0 a wide variety of languages, a powerful diff and' merge capability, and integration with:i  .   o the common IDEs including code-management,   o MacPerl, and   o Dreamweaver (for the web)e  4 And if you don't do your web development in a GUI or9 semi-GUI mode, bbedit is all you need for a very powerful.0 text-based web-development and test environment.  & I'd give it my highest recommendation.  !                            Atlantt   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2002 08:14:21 -0400m2 From: Atlant Schmidt <atlantnospam@mindspring.com>5 Subject: Re: My conversation with Linus about VMS ...t. Message-ID: <3D1C531D.DEB68CC1@mindspring.com>   jlsue wrote:  4 > On Thu, 27 Jun 2002 08:15:14 -0400, Atlant Schmidt& > <atlantnospam@mindspring.com> wrote: >. > >Lyndon Bartels wrote: > > L > >> I said that no matter what, as long as it's alpha, I can take my systemL > >> disk and move it from one box to another, and it'll work. I may have to@ > >> retune, but I can get a basic OS running with no changes... > >>< > >> The person's response.... "Wow,  that's *REALLY* nice." > >S) > >It'd be even better if it were *TRUE*.p > >'Shame it's not, ehh? > > 	 > >Atlant  > >a >t! > Why do you make this statement?WC > I KNOW that I can boot my system disk on any VMS-supported Alpha.-B > I've done it and even performed off-line VMS upgrades for entire' > VMSclusters by using this capability.R  6 Note the change from the original statement "no matter9 what, as long as it's an Alpha" to your re-cast "any VMS-t7 supported Alpha". There's a world of difference betweenv
 those two.   Next strawman?   Atlant   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2002 09:03:37 -0400I- From: "Richard D. Piccard" <piccard@ohio.edu>l5 Subject: Re: My conversation with Linus about VMS ...o' Message-ID: <3D1C5EA9.3AD22B5@ohio.edu>   * I think three qualifications are needed:      Y 1.  The disk needs to have a physical/electrical interface that is supported by the Alpha 7 system (SCSI-2, IDE, ...), so that it can be connected.i  C 2.  The hardware-platform-specific support files (e.g., drivers andeU SYS$SYSDEVICE:[SYS0.SYSCOMMON.SYS$LDR]SYS$CPU_ROUTINES_0302.EXE, etc.) for the target-Y Alpha system need to be in place on the disk (which is the default for any version of VMShQ produced after that system, but they could have been tailored off to save space).-  6 3.  The system parameter values are not pathalogical.     6 Are there any other qualifications that I have missed?   				RDPh     jlsue wrote: > 4 > On Thu, 27 Jun 2002 08:15:14 -0400, Atlant Schmidt& > <atlantnospam@mindspring.com> wrote: >  > >Lyndon Bartels wrote: > > L > >> I said that no matter what, as long as it's alpha, I can take my systemL > >> disk and move it from one box to another, and it'll work. I may have to@ > >> retune, but I can get a basic OS running with no changes... > >>< > >> The person's response.... "Wow,  that's *REALLY* nice." > >e) > >It'd be even better if it were *TRUE*.F > >'Shame it's not, ehh? > > 	 > >Atlantm > >m > ! > Why do you make this statement?SC > I KNOW that I can boot my system disk on any VMS-supported Alpha.aB > I've done it and even performed off-line VMS upgrades for entire' > VMSclusters by using this capability.i > 3 > Not speaking for anyone, certainly not DEC/Compaqo/ > (get rid of the xxxz in my address to e-mail)m   -- iB ==================================================================B Dick Piccard                           Academic Technology ManagerB piccard@ohio.edu                                 Computer ServicesB http://oak.cats.ohiou.edu/~piccard/                Ohio University   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2002 10:13:51 -0400y2 From: Atlant Schmidt <atlantnospam@mindspring.com>5 Subject: Re: My conversation with Linus about VMS ...e. Message-ID: <3D1C6F1F.38D2FF1D@mindspring.com>   "Richard D. Piccard" wrote:e  8 > Are there any other qualifications that I have missed?  - 2a. VMS need sto have *WRITTEN* the hardware-e8       platform-specific support files; they didn't do so       for all Alpha platforms.  3 4.   The system needs not to have been deliberately 3       crippled-via-firmware so as to not be able to.       run VMS.  7      The crippling could be the famous "negative" models"       number, no SRM PALcode, etc.    #                              Atlanth   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2002 14:55:57 GMT 1 From: LESLIE@JRLVAX.HOUSTON.RR.COM (Jerry Leslie)y5 Subject: Re: My conversation with Linus about VMS ...l8 Message-ID: <1O_S8.1253$eF5.63035@twister.austin.rr.com>  3 Atlant Schmidt (atlantnospam@mindspring.com) wrote:m : 1 : EDT (as customized by me) remains my absolutelyh5 : favorite editor, so when I made the switch from VMSr7 : to Solaris, you'd think I would have naturally fallenm : into the Emacs/XEmacs camp.  :f= There are EDT clones for non-VMS platforms, such as ED; from:E  /    http://clio.rice.edu/EDstuff/ED_Overview.txtm  F   "ED is an EDT look-alike editor that is portable to many platforms. D    If you use EMACS, you'll probably hate it, but it does have some     nice features.n      ED will:-  A    o  Let you edit files on other hosts, if you are connected to -       the Internet. 6    o  Display many files on the screen simultaneously.@    o  Save key definitions and other editor settings on command.@    o  Let you mark your spot in a file, and return to it easily.3    o  Let you put tab stops wherever you want them. .    o  Let you use wildcards in search strings.1    o  Let you redefine the keys on your terminal. L    o  Let you say things like: ED *.dat, if you want to edit all .dat files.?    o  Allow you to teach it how to talk to different terminals.tE    o  Calculate the value of algebraic expressions that include math D       functions.)    o  Sort a file or a portion of a file.a$    o  Let you read the network news.  <    ED is free software, see the file COPYING for details..."  5 ED can also edit very long (>> 255 characters) lines.e  G ED is available for Win32, from a DOS box, OS/2, VMS, and most dialectsh+ of unix: AIX, HP-UX, Solaris, Linux, Tru64.?  E I'm using it as the editor for the VMS version of 'tin' to write thisu post.   H --Jerry Leslie   leslie@clio.rice.edu  (my opinions are strictly my own)9   Note: leslie@jrlvax.houston.rr.com is invalid for emaile   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2002 11:13:56 -040002 From: Atlant Schmidt <atlantnospam@mindspring.com>5 Subject: Re: My conversation with Linus about VMS ...e. Message-ID: <3D1C7D34.DD53BB94@mindspring.com>   Jerry Leslie wrote:f  5 > Atlant Schmidt (atlantnospam@mindspring.com) wrote:v > :o3 > : EDT (as customized by me) remains my absolutelyh7 > : favorite editor, so when I made the switch from VMSi9 > : to Solaris, you'd think I would have naturally fallen5 > : into the Emacs/XEmacs camp.  > :u? > There are EDT clones for non-VMS platforms, such as ED; from:y > 1 >    http://clio.rice.edu/EDstuff/ED_Overview.txt0   Thanks -- I'll look into it!   Atlant   ------------------------------   Date: 28 Jun 2002 11:21 CDT ' From: carl@gerg.tamu.edu (Carl Perkins)m5 Subject: Re: My conversation with Linus about VMS ..._- Message-ID: <28JUN200211214883@gerg.tamu.edu>r  B In article <3D1C5EA9.3AD22B5@ohio.edu>, piccard@ohio.edu writes... } + }I think three qualifications are needed:  r }  } Z }1.  The disk needs to have a physical/electrical interface that is supported by the Alpha8 }system (SCSI-2, IDE, ...), so that it can be connected. } D }2.  The hardware-platform-specific support files (e.g., drivers andV }SYS$SYSDEVICE:[SYS0.SYSCOMMON.SYS$LDR]SYS$CPU_ROUTINES_0302.EXE, etc.) for the targetZ }Alpha system need to be in place on the disk (which is the default for any version of VMSR }produced after that system, but they could have been tailored off to save space). } 7 }3.  The system parameter values are not pathalogical. e }  } 7 }Are there any other qualifications that I have missed?  }  }				RDP  G Licenses. Taking a system disk from a DS10 to a GS320, which meets your1J conditions above, might technically produce a system that is running - butG it doesn't do any good to have a system that runs if you can't actuallyrA do anything with it due to licenses that have insufficient units.u   --- Carl  
 }jlsue wrote:  }> ,5 }> On Thu, 27 Jun 2002 08:15:14 -0400, Atlant Schmidt ' }> <atlantnospam@mindspring.com> wrote:y }> a }> >Lyndon Bartels wrote:D }> >M }> >> I said that no matter what, as long as it's alpha, I can take my systemtM }> >> disk and move it from one box to another, and it'll work. I may have togA }> >> retune, but I can get a basic OS running with no changes...t }> >>o= }> >> The person's response.... "Wow,  that's *REALLY* nice.") }> >* }> >It'd be even better if it were *TRUE*. }> >'Shame it's not, ehh?i }> >
 }> >Atlant }> > }> n" }> Why do you make this statement?D }> I KNOW that I can boot my system disk on any VMS-supported Alpha.C }> I've done it and even performed off-line VMS upgrades for entireI( }> VMSclusters by using this capability. }> y4 }> Not speaking for anyone, certainly not DEC/Compaq0 }> (get rid of the xxxz in my address to e-mail) }  }-- C }==================================================================rC }Dick Piccard                           Academic Technology ManagerhC }piccard@ohio.edu                                 Computer ServicessC }http://oak.cats.ohiou.edu/~piccard/                Ohio Universityd   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2002 07:43:12 -0500m/ From: "Stuart, Ed" <Ed.Stuart@austinenergy.com>  Subject: RE: New VMS MarketingT Message-ID: <92EFB80E551BD511B39500D0B7B0CDCC0642C5AE@ohms.electric.ci.austin.tx.us>  F This part of the invite makes me think the event may have been slantedF towards VARs, trainers, etc. initially, but opened to customers later.E Hopefully the amount of requests generated by posting to this group =s will* result in more classes in other locations.  9 "Please register only after obtaining travel approval.=20oG Additional information on hotel, airline, and training logistics will =  be provided upon registration."   EdE **Please apply a generous amount of all the usual disclaimers here.**a   > -----Original Message-----* > From: John Smith [mailto:a@nonymous.com]' > Sent: Thursday, June 27, 2002 4:37 PMX > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comm  > Subject: Re: New VMS Marketing >=20 >=20) > Sounds like you have a gold-plated VAR.  >=20B > I put the following search terms in on both the HP and Compaq=20 > web sites ande > came up with zero matches: >=20 > "OpenVMS Immersion Course" > "OpenVMS Boot Camp Training" >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20< > "Stuart, Ed" <Ed.Stuart@austinenergy.com> wrote in message@ > news:92EFB80E551BD511B39500D0B7B0CDCC0642C5A2@ohms.electric.ci > .austin.tx.us. > ..A > I've got some new OpenVMS info for you folks.  The new HP is=20o > setting up somenB > free OpenVMS system manager training courses.  I received the=20 > document below@ > from our VAR.  I asked the VAR's contact in the new HP if I=20 > could post it toE > the group and their response was the wider the audience the better.g@ > Unfortunately they also informed me that the first class is=20 > probably full>A > already, but OpenVMS marketing is trying to get more classes=20e > in the futuret) > and may even take the show on the road.t >=20 > EdG > **Please apply a generous amount of all the usual disclaimers here.**  >=20 >=205 > Pilot Training for the New OpenVMS Immersion CourseS* > (Also called OpenVMS Boot Camp Training) >=20< > You are invited to attend the pilot delivery of the new=20 > OpenVMS ImmersionoC > Course, an intensive, 2-week training that has two primary goals:e >=20E > =B7 To prepare students to pass the three new OpenVMS certifications" > exams (Exams 651, 450, and 436).B > =B7 To provide useful system administration accelerated learning >=20? > Students are expected to have at least one year of OpenVMS=20h > support or system-; > administration experience and will be expected to meet=20t > prerequisites and to" > complete post-course self-study. >=20A > The pilot will be held at the Nashua, New Hampshire facility=200 > of Compaq, parto@ > of the new HP from Monday, August 12 through Friday, August=20 > 23. The hours > > for the course are 8:30-5:00, every day. There will be no=20 > registration feeE > to attend, but individuals are responsible for their own travel and) > expenses.t >=20> > The target audiences for this pilot are: OpenVMS business=20 > partners, OpenVMSd@ > customers, OpenVMS presales and service internal employees,=20
 > and OpenVMScB > training instructors. We will reserve 5 slots for each target=20
 > audience so,G > prompt registration is important. Additional registrations beyond thei< > initial 20 slots will be put on a wait list and will be=20 > notified of their  > attendance by July 31st. >=20A > To register for this pilot, please send confirmation of your=20d > attendance byi
 > July 15 to:  >=20 > Kenneth Bienstock, > The New HP > 110 Spit Brook Rdo > Nashua, NH 03062 > 603-884-1151 > Kenneth.Bienstock@HP.COM >=20: > Please register only after obtaining travel approval.=20 > Additional informationA > on hotel, airline, and training logistics will be provided uponh > registration.  >=20 >=20* > Details for the OpenVMS Immersion Course >=20? > This is a new course that is designed to provide customers=20o > and presales> > system engineers at our selling partners with a short but=20 > intensive training< > experience to help them achieve OpenVMS certifications.=20 > Students likely toG > benefit from this course are those with previous OpenVMS training and D > experience and who need training in preparation for certification. >=20F > This training course will not have the same breadth of coverage as = them; > OpenVMS system management curriculum, but will instead=20u > emphasize the parts.> > of the curriculum that directly support the certification=20 > exams. The course  > will balance:a >=20D > =B7 Enough coverage of the certification competency model for most" > students to pass the three examsF > =B7 Information needed to completely perform some OpenVMS system and > network management functions2 > =B7 Information that can be covered in two weeks >=20@ > Students taking this course are expected to meet the following > prerequisites: >=20A > =B7 One or more years of "hands on" OpenVMS support or system =g
 management
 > experience.i? > =B7 The ability to perform the tasks covered in the OpenVMS =t Fundamentals > courseD > =B7 The ability to write OpenVMS command procedures to the level = coverede, > in the current OpenVMS Fundamentals courseB > =B7 The ability and time to complete the recommended post-courseA > self-study. There are no labs in this course. However, there=20b > are labs that') > are part of the post-course self-study.s >=20 > The goals of the course are: >=20& > =B7 Describe the OpenVMS environment< > =B7 Understand OpenVMS operating system technical conceptsE > =B7 Choose and configure OpenVMS and network configurations (LAN, =n LAT, > TCP/IP, DECnet Plus)* > =B7 Install OpenVMS and layered productsF > =B7 Perform day to day OpenVMS and network management tasks (TCP/IP)B > =B7 Choose, configure, and manage OpenVMS Cluster configurations* > =B7 Choose and configure OpenVMS storage) > =B7 Choose and configure OpenVMS Galaxy 8 > =B7 Trouble shoot OpenVMS (including OpenVMS Clusters)# > =B7 Trouble shoot TCP/IP Services  >=20 >=20 > Non-goals of the course are: >=20+ > =B7 OpenVMS system performance managementc( > =B7 OpenVMS operating system internals > =B7 Programming on OpenVMSG > =B7 Complete coverage of the OpenVMS system management curriculum and $ > the certification competency modelG > =B7 Practice taking exams that mirror the OpenVMS certification examsb >=20 >=20   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2002 07:46:31 -0500e/ From: "Stuart, Ed" <Ed.Stuart@austinenergy.com>a Subject: RE: New VMS MarketingT Message-ID: <92EFB80E551BD511B39500D0B7B0CDCC0642C5B0@ohms.electric.ci.austin.tx.us>  A Since we like to keep advertisements out of the group if you're =d
 interested+ in knowing who the VAR is send me an email.p   EdE **Please apply a generous amount of all the usual disclaimers here.**I     > -----Original Message-----* > From: John Smith [mailto:a@nonymous.com]' > Sent: Thursday, June 27, 2002 4:37 PMp > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comd  > Subject: Re: New VMS Marketing >=20 >=20) > Sounds like you have a gold-plated VAR.o >=20B > I put the following search terms in on both the HP and Compaq=20 > web sites and- > came up with zero matches: >=20 > "OpenVMS Immersion Course" > "OpenVMS Boot Camp Training" >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20< > "Stuart, Ed" <Ed.Stuart@austinenergy.com> wrote in message@ > news:92EFB80E551BD511B39500D0B7B0CDCC0642C5A2@ohms.electric.ci > .austin.tx.us. > ..A > I've got some new OpenVMS info for you folks.  The new HP is=20L > setting up some:B > free OpenVMS system manager training courses.  I received the=20 > document below@ > from our VAR.  I asked the VAR's contact in the new HP if I=20 > could post it toE > the group and their response was the wider the audience the better.e@ > Unfortunately they also informed me that the first class is=20 > probably fulliA > already, but OpenVMS marketing is trying to get more classes=20a > in the futureu) > and may even take the show on the road.  >=20 > EdG > **Please apply a generous amount of all the usual disclaimers here.**f >=20 >=205 > Pilot Training for the New OpenVMS Immersion Coursei* > (Also called OpenVMS Boot Camp Training) >=20< > You are invited to attend the pilot delivery of the new=20 > OpenVMS Immersion C > Course, an intensive, 2-week training that has two primary goals:r >=20E > =B7 To prepare students to pass the three new OpenVMS certification0" > exams (Exams 651, 450, and 436).B > =B7 To provide useful system administration accelerated learning >=20? > Students are expected to have at least one year of OpenVMS=20e > support or systemn; > administration experience and will be expected to meet=20l > prerequisites and to" > complete post-course self-study. >=20A > The pilot will be held at the Nashua, New Hampshire facility=20c > of Compaq, part(@ > of the new HP from Monday, August 12 through Friday, August=20 > 23. The hours,> > for the course are 8:30-5:00, every day. There will be no=20 > registration feeE > to attend, but individuals are responsible for their own travel andu > expenses.t >=20> > The target audiences for this pilot are: OpenVMS business=20 > partners, OpenVMS @ > customers, OpenVMS presales and service internal employees,=20
 > and OpenVMStB > training instructors. We will reserve 5 slots for each target=20
 > audience sopG > prompt registration is important. Additional registrations beyond the < > initial 20 slots will be put on a wait list and will be=20 > notified of theirm > attendance by July 31st. >=20A > To register for this pilot, please send confirmation of your=20h > attendance by 
 > July 15 to:r >=20 > Kenneth Bienstockh > The New HP > 110 Spit Brook Rd  > Nashua, NH 03062 > 603-884-1151 > Kenneth.Bienstock@HP.COM >=20: > Please register only after obtaining travel approval.=20 > Additional informationA > on hotel, airline, and training logistics will be provided uponf > registration.S >=20 >=20* > Details for the OpenVMS Immersion Course >=20? > This is a new course that is designed to provide customers=20t > and presales> > system engineers at our selling partners with a short but=20 > intensive training< > experience to help them achieve OpenVMS certifications.=20 > Students likely toG > benefit from this course are those with previous OpenVMS training andpD > experience and who need training in preparation for certification. >=20F > This training course will not have the same breadth of coverage as = theS; > OpenVMS system management curriculum, but will instead=20a > emphasize the partsM> > of the curriculum that directly support the certification=20 > exams. The coursee > will balance:n >=20D > =B7 Enough coverage of the certification competency model for most" > students to pass the three examsF > =B7 Information needed to completely perform some OpenVMS system and > network management functions2 > =B7 Information that can be covered in two weeks >=20@ > Students taking this course are expected to meet the following > prerequisites: >=20A > =B7 One or more years of "hands on" OpenVMS support or system = 
 management
 > experience.-? > =B7 The ability to perform the tasks covered in the OpenVMS =m Fundamentals > courseD > =B7 The ability to write OpenVMS command procedures to the level = covered , > in the current OpenVMS Fundamentals courseB > =B7 The ability and time to complete the recommended post-courseA > self-study. There are no labs in this course. However, there=20e > are labs thatm) > are part of the post-course self-study.' >=20 > The goals of the course are: >=20& > =B7 Describe the OpenVMS environment< > =B7 Understand OpenVMS operating system technical conceptsE > =B7 Choose and configure OpenVMS and network configurations (LAN, =i LAT, > TCP/IP, DECnet Plus)* > =B7 Install OpenVMS and layered productsF > =B7 Perform day to day OpenVMS and network management tasks (TCP/IP)B > =B7 Choose, configure, and manage OpenVMS Cluster configurations* > =B7 Choose and configure OpenVMS storage) > =B7 Choose and configure OpenVMS Galaxy 8 > =B7 Trouble shoot OpenVMS (including OpenVMS Clusters)# > =B7 Trouble shoot TCP/IP Servicesi >=20 >=20 > Non-goals of the course are: >=20+ > =B7 OpenVMS system performance management ( > =B7 OpenVMS operating system internals > =B7 Programming on OpenVMSG > =B7 Complete coverage of the OpenVMS system management curriculum andt$ > the certification competency modelG > =B7 Practice taking exams that mirror the OpenVMS certification exams  >=20 >=20   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2002 12:49:31 GMTl# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>  Subject: Re: New VMS MarketingG Message-ID: <vXYS8.13308$2er.9983@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>   % Does HP own the www.openvms.org site?e   No.i  D Does HP see fit to post details about this on their own/Compaq site?   No.A  L Imagine for a moment that you are dealing with a VAR or an HP rep other thanG the one in Houston who seems to be doing a great job in keeping his/her.L customers informed. Also imagine that you are not a user of this n.g.  AsideC from www.openvms.org, which got its information about this training2G opportunity 'second-hand' (from the posting that first appeared in this.H n.g.), where else is somebody who is interested in this sort of training supposed to find out about it?  H  While the VMS organization within HP is large, it isn't that large thatL disconnects between what one hand is doing (the training) and the other handG (the guys who are supposed to tell what gets promoted/posted on the webh site) should happen this way.e  K Ooops, I forgot...we're still dealing with the same people who brought us apJ decade or more of stealth marketing and downplaying of VMS. They just have' new logo's on their business cards now.     I While the public is being confronted with accounting scandals these days,mK there were plenty of people, insiders and those with eyes and brains on the G outside, that *knew* there was something strange going on. Now that thecK extent and amount of the malfeasance in accounting is publicly known, headse are rolling.  H Perhaps it's time ALL HP and former Compaq shareholders got a front-pageE expose in the New York Times about the marketing malfeasance that hasoK occurred with respect to VMS at Digital/Compaq/HP, and to know that many ofiH the perpetrators are still at large doing the same old thing, destroying shareholder value.    < "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com> wrote in message( news:l3QS8.331105$352.37727@sccrnsc02... >p0 > "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> wrote in messageB > news:QzLS8.5015$2er.1039@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com...+ > > Sounds like you have a gold-plated VAR.a > >hK > > I put the following search terms in on both the HP and Compaq web sitess > andk > > came up with zero matches: > >y > > "OpenVMS Immersion Course"  > > "OpenVMS Boot Camp Training" > >i >-" > Well, it's up on www.openvms.org >s >e >h >r   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2002 14:31:56 +0100n( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1> Subject: Re: New VMS Marketing) Message-ID: <3D1C654C.B6667C7B@127.0.0.1>t   "Stuart, Ed" wrote:o > L > Since we like to keep advertisements out of the group if you're interested- > in knowing who the VAR is send me an email.t  B Some folks advertise here, so I don't see why you should keep themC quiet, please name the VAR.... (I've mentioned a UK one before now)a   -- t? Regards, Nic Clews a.k.a. Mr. CP Charges, CSC Computer Sciencesn nclews at csc dot comb   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2002 14:00:01 +0000a2 From: John Eisenschmidt <jweisen@eisenschmidt.org> Subject: Re: New VMS Marketing4 Message-ID: <20020628140001.B15320@eisenschmidt.org>  DWhen I was shopping for new Alphas a couple years ago (a painful task for someone used to shopping for PCs and Sun Servers), the only way I could find *any* VAR was here in COV. Our old VAR had disappeared (changed their name and number -- smart for any business right?) and we were up the proverbial creek without a padle.    As far as advertising, personally I think what little is done here is proportional to the amount of messages that move through here every day. It also seems like the few VARs that advertise here also participate in discussions. It's not like the SPAMbot advertising I see in other places.  I Unless the Voices are Mistaken, Nic Clews (sendspamhere@127.0.0.1) Wrote:C > "Stuart, Ed" wrote:. > > N > > Since we like to keep advertisements out of the group if you're interested/ > > in knowing who the VAR is send me an email.  > D > Some folks advertise here, so I don't see why you should keep themE > quiet, please name the VAR.... (I've mentioned a UK one before now)n >  > -- sA > Regards, Nic Clews a.k.a. Mr. CP Charges, CSC Computer Sciencesf > nclews at csc dot come   -- r/ John W. Eisenschmidt <jweisen@eisenschmidt.org>t6  Homepage URL    | http://www.eisenschmidt.org/jweisenM  GPG Public Key  | http://www.eisenschmidt.org/jweisen/misc/jeisenschmidt.asciD  GPG Fingerprint | 5F9B F916 5AD1 3295 CF99 BC1E 1F97 E6A3 37E3 BEF2  M  This mail is an attachment? Read http://www.jensbenecke.de/misc/outlook.htmln   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2002 09:00:36 -0500r/ From: "Stuart, Ed" <Ed.Stuart@austinenergy.com>n Subject: RE: New VMS MarketingT Message-ID: <92EFB80E551BD511B39500D0B7B0CDCC0642C5B6@ohms.electric.ci.austin.tx.us>  @ Sequel Data Systems Inc. is the VAR.  My contact is Rick Wilson. http://www.sequeldata.com/   EdE **Please apply a generous amount of all the usual disclaimers here.**g     > -----Original Message-----1 > From: Nic Clews [mailto:sendspamhere@127.0.0.1]e% > Sent: Friday, June 28, 2002 8:32 AMs > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Come  > Subject: Re: New VMS Marketing >  >  > "Stuart, Ed" wrote:P > > = > > Since we like to keep advertisements out of the group if w > you're interested / > > in knowing who the VAR is send me an email.h > D > Some folks advertise here, so I don't see why you should keep themE > quiet, please name the VAR.... (I've mentioned a UK one before now)t >  > -- wA > Regards, Nic Clews a.k.a. Mr. CP Charges, CSC Computer Sciencesl > nclews at csc dot come >    ------------------------------   Date: 28 Jun 2002 07:39:50 GMT( From: nmm1@cus.cam.ac.uk (Nick Maclaren) Subject: Re: Open Letter to HP0 Message-ID: <afh3s6$q5r$1@pegasus.csx.cam.ac.uk>  F In article <jcLS8.4912$2er.3819@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>," John Smith <a@nonymous.com> wrote:K >And right now it is Intel & MS that are arguably the only ones that can doa >this. > J >Everyone else, including IBM, Sun, and HP are just along for the ride. (I+ >know this will stir up the hornets' nest).   B Not really.  Firstly, Intel was in that state, but is arguably not? any longer.  It isn't just a matter of market share, but of thep@ perception of the users, and Intel is not regarded as THE market leader in the way that it was.  C Secondly, when the other vendors act in semi-unison, they are stilla@ a match for Microsoft.  More than a match if they act in genuineB unison, but that is extremely rare.  But I agree that Microsoft is
 the hegemony.r     Regards, Nick Maclaren,* University of Cambridge Computing Service,> New Museums Site, Pembroke Street, Cambridge CB2 3QH, England. Email:  nmm1@cam.ac.uk/ Tel.:  +44 1223 334761    Fax:  +44 1223 334679    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2002 11:11:08 +0100e( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1>( Subject: Re: Quorum discussion/questions) Message-ID: <3D1C363C.BF58C402@127.0.0.1>o   Lyndon Bartels wrote:= >  > Here's the current config: > ) > Two ES40s (currently v7.2-1, soon v7.3)s/ > The system disk and quroum disk are CI based.t > F > Both ES40s are voting members. So with ES40s and Qdisk, I have three > expected votes.   ? This gives you any single system may boot with the quorum disk.   J > I'm probably going to be adding an ES45 (after v7.3) that will also be a > voting member. > / > The way I see it I have two possible options:o > I > 1. I can remove the quorom disk from the config, and leave the expected= > votes at three (3).r  H Meaning you need any two systems. Agreed it's the documented recommended? solution. From default settings (QDSKINTERVAL) it does speed upi reconfigurations.t  eG > 2. I can retain the quorum disk, add the ES45 as a voting member, andi8 > increase the expected votes from three (3) to four (4)  G This causes a situation where you need a minimum of TWO systems AND the. quorum disk.   OR  H All three systems and no quorum disk. In this case it becomes a possibleG complication if the disk is to become trusted. At best it increases the. reconfiguration complexity.r     G > With these two possibilities... Could somebody care to comment on the0I > positives, negatives, gotchas, or even "You've gotta be nuts!" of theset
 > approaches?t  H Well you could give even more votes to the quorum disk to allow a singleG system to boot with the quorum disk. This way you ensure you never lose G the disk(s) in the cluster. This may or may not be desirable. If you do F this, time to reconfigure is not a consideration, the actual situation is what you want to verify.s  H We're also stepping into the realms of, you don't really want to do thisB unless you're absolutely certain of what you're trying to achieve.  D Concerns have been expressed here, and I have written quite a bit ofD detailed information on what happens during cluster reconfigurationsC with quorum disks, and possible pitfalls and concerns. Try a googlen< search on my name and quorum, look for WHO DOES THE CLUEXIT. (mid June '02)  J > What about in short term...? Would it be good/bad/indifferent to add theI > ES45 as a voting member (and have 4 votes) when the other two ES40s are J > still configured for three (3)? Then, after a time, change the config onC > the existing ES40s, to bring the votes and/or qdisk config to the  > correct config.f  G My advice is to sit down with the documentation and a bit of paper, and H work through scenarios, and decide if the expected behaviour is what youH want. Remember you also have the option of adding the new ES45 as a zeroH (non voting) member but this has other implications for locking. IdeallyC you don't want to run with a voting configuration which is not yourBG final intended configuration, the only reason would be the inability toi perform a clean cluster reboot.e  H In any case I would try to ignore the fact you have an existing cluster,G and pretend you're starting from scratch with 3 systems when setting upt the voting strategy.  C I know I may not have helped, but hopefully you have some things toeC consider. The Guidelines for cluster configurations is a good book.t   -- y? Regards, Nic Clews a.k.a. Mr. CP Charges, CSC Computer SciencesD nclews at csc dot comC   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2002 11:18:24 +0100oU From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <andrew_nospam.harrison_remove_this@sun#.com> + Subject: Re: Sun benchmarketeering campaign 0 Message-ID: <afhd3q$1ar$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   Rob Young wrote:   > In article <aff9bn$a8r$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <andrew_nospam.harrison_remove_this@sun#.com> writes: >  >> >>Rob Young wrote: >>  = > 	He states: "Itanium 2's 3 MB cache, skew the results sincerB > 	they can accomadate the entire benchmark program and thus don't* > 	have to [go] off-die to access memory"  > 5 > 	That is totally incorrect.  Spin Spin Spin Andrew.= >     C Sorry but again you are wrong having a L1 cache that big means thats? 3 of the 26 SPEC benchmark have a working set size which is nows= entirely in the l1 cache (a huge win) with another that has as? working set that is almost entirely in L1 cache and a 5th whicha0 spends 50% of its run time entirely in L1 cache.  > This is not what the SPEC CPU 2000 designers intended, even ifB you think that SPECint/fp are good predictors of apps performance.    H > 	No where does he mention IBM.  In that context he is totally wrong.  & > 	Laughable actually.  Why?  Because: > 8 >  http://www.specbench.org/osg/cpu2000/analysis/memory/ >  aR >  The SPEC CPU2000 benchmarks are intended to exercise the CPU itself, the memoryF >  hierarcy, and the compilers. How much memory do they actually use?  >   R >  The data collected here show that SPEC met its goals for memory footprint: mostQ >  benchmarks are larger than common cache sizes, many are larger than 100MB, and  >  none are larger than 200MB. n >  nN >  It is useful to have benchmarks that are larger than common caches, becauseQ >  SPEC would like to differentiate its benchmarks from "toy benchmarks" that are./ >  too easy to run or that simply reflect MHz. cM >  It is useful to keep the benchmarks under 200MB so that the suite leaves aOM >  reasonable margin on a 256MB machine. The other 56MB are available for thetQ >  operating system, graphics system, network daemons, etc, without using 'single Q >  user mode' on Unix systems, or killing processes on NT systems. (Such measures(D >  may not be representative of how most people use their systems.)  >  h > ; > 	IBM was NOT THE POINT AT ALL and a casual observer woulde@ > 	recognize that fact.  SPEC2000 running on Itanium 2 does NOT + > 	(I repeat NOT) live in Itanium 2 caches.t > B > 	Besides that Andrew, prattling on about IBM ignores a couple ofE > 	key facts.  First, is that given single CPU benchmarks IBM is nearlI > 	the top of SPECint but not leading.  Secondly, SPECint/SPECfp measureslH > 	three key components, CPU, memory subsystem and compilers.  It is one* > 	of THE BEST system benchmarks there is. >     F And you accuse me of Spin, the Power 4 is the second fastest processorI on SPECint and the fastest on SPECfp (Compaqs favorite benchmark, except   for Freddy Boy).  F You also seem to have a terrible grasp of what a "System is". A systemE comprises. CPU, cache, Memory subsystem, Backplane, I/O subsystem, OSe	 and apps.t  E SPECint and SPECfp are actually terrible "systems benchmarks" because=G they only excercise CPU, Cache, Memory Subsystem (sometimes), backplane D (sometimes). The rest of the "system" is almost entirely absent fromD the test. Digital proves this from an OS standpoint by doing SPEC onE Alpha with NT and with Tru64 and getting the same results. On a total F idiot would conclude from Digitals test that this ment that apps wouldD have the same performance characteristics on NT and Tru64 if running on the same hardware.o  F If you need to validate my claim then I would suggest that you advanceE your theory on comp.arch, somehow I suspect that you will be sensibleo enough not to bother.s  B And of course the best reason why your conjecture is wrong is thatF in practice particularly with Alpha SPECint/fp is not a good predictorC of how it does on other benchmarks. If SPECint was a good predictoriB of performance then why do systems with CPU's that have much lower? SPECint numbers have a better per CPU performance on SPECjbb orn SPECweb than Alpha.o  > If SPEcint is a good predictor why does the GS320 have a score? on TPC-C which is only marginally better than a 24 CPU IBM P680 > which has much slower CPUs based on SPECint and fewer of them.  = If SPECint is a good systems banchmark then why is it that onp= actual applications benchmarks Oracle Apps and SAP does Alphah9 do worse than systems with fewer slower CPU's measured byu SPECint.  > You are on record as claiming that TPC-C is a valid benchmark,8 you cannot have it both ways, either it is in which case8 SPECint isn't because the GS320 scores so badly on TCP-C8 vs machines with fewer slower CPU's or it isn't in which6 case you can stop the BS about TPC-C. The third option$ is that neither are good benchmarks.    I > 	Face it, UltraSparc is weak and you can try to wiggle out of that but n > 	facts are facts.d >     C Fact is that unless you have a grasp of what a "system" is then youV? don't know if this claim is true, false of even relevant to theu discussion.t  A In this one post you seem to have demostrated that you don't knowd< what a system is, I leave you to work out what this means in' terms of your UltraSPARC is weak claim.    Regardse Andrew Harrisone   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2002 11:27:08 +0100oU From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <andrew_nospam.harrison_remove_this@sun#.com>0+ Subject: Re: Sun benchmarketeering campaign 0 Message-ID: <afhdk5$1f7$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   Fred Kleinsorge wrote:  8 > Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy wrote in message ... >  >> >>E >>And Devid understands the issues rather well its a shame you don't.dE >>Take the IBM P690 for example. The minium number of CPU's in a P690xJ >>Turbo actually installed is 8, on one 8 way MCM module. For the purposesD >>of SPECint and SPECfp IBM turn off all but one of these CPU's, butB >>they don't turn off the half of the L2 cache shared by the otherA >>core or 7/8ths of the L3 cache. So you get a SPECint and SPECfpo@ >>number being run on 1 CPU with 2 CPU's worth of L2 and 8 CPU's@ >>worth of L3 cache. None of the SPECint or fp benchmarks run inB >>more than 200 MB and the majority now fit nicely into the 128 MB >>of L3 cache on the system. >>A >>Is this against the rules of SPEC, no, they were drafted beforesA >>this kind of configuration was possible on micorprocessor based 
 >>systems. >> >> > L > You know, I understand your complaint, but it is IMHO really just a way ofJ > trying to hide your own poor performance numbers.  IBM doesn't sell thisK > system as a single CPU configuration, so the only way to get a single CPUtJ > number is to turn the others off.  ***This doesn't invalidate the singleM > stream numbers, it just means you should by no means try to extrapolate theoK > single stream number to the performance of a CPU in an MP configuration -eH > which you *can't* do anyway.***  If you really need that single streamL > performance, you can always turn off the other CPU.  Heck, they could turnN > off every other CPU.  Does this make the *cost* to get that performance bad?N > Yup.  But that's a different question.  It doesn't mean that you *can't* getN > that performance if you want to (and if IBM will allow you to configure it -; > which I assume they must - to conform to the SPEC rules).l >     ? Or to put it another way SPECint isn't a good test of a systemso< performance because of the above. Great so we argree and youC agree with David Yen. Tell Rob and he can stop embarassing himself.o    N > There are *other* benchmarks that show the MP performance characteristics of > a system.h > J > The Sparc problem is that even playing compiler optimization tricks, theI > SPEC numbers for them are not good, getting worse, and unlikely to ever.J > catch up to the competition.  So you need to find some *other* benchmarkD > that you can, of only while nobody else has numbers, look good on. >     ? Freddy Boy last time you advanced this theory I comprehensivelybB trashed it as you know. You cannot brand optimization methods that; has such a broad impact on the SPECfp results as a "trick".   = Nor is SPARC SPEC performance getting relatively worse as you = also know but seem to have chosen to avoid mentioning in youru> spin it has actually got relatively better as many people have
 commented on.N  ; Incedentally your gaffe in dismissing SPECfp as not being a > usefull benchmark for measuring peoples apps performance while9 it may well be true is hardly the Alpha party line is it.e      J > It's all a game.  Just admit it.  If a miracle happened, and Sparc 9 wasI > launched with SPEC numbers 100x better than the competition - your tuneo > would change in an instant.C >     8 If we do and my tune does change then you are welcome to< remind me, as I intend to whenever you mention SPEC yourself9 or had you forgotten dismissing it as a usefull benchmarks	 yourself.r   regards: Andrew Harrisone     >  >  >  >    ------------------------------    Date: 28 Jun 2002 07:40:06 -0600+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) + Subject: Re: Sun benchmarketeering campaigne3 Message-ID: <uWIg9GMvTVlV@eisner.encompasserve.org>C   In article <afhd3q$1ar$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <andrew_nospam.harrison_remove_this@sun#.com> writes: >  >  > Rob Young wrote: >  >> In article <aff9bn$a8r$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <andrew_nospam.harrison_remove_this@sun#.com> writes:k >>   >>>A >>>Rob Young wrote:e >>>  > > >> 	He states: "Itanium 2's 3 MB cache, skew the results sinceC >> 	they can accomadate the entire benchmark program and thus don'tn+ >> 	have to [go] off-die to access memory" w >> .6 >> 	That is totally incorrect.  Spin Spin Spin Andrew. >> r >  > E > Sorry but again you are wrong having a L1 cache that big means that A > 3 of the 26 SPEC benchmark have a working set size which is nowm > entirely in the l1 cache R  < 	Never claimed all.  The documentation doesn't claim that.  - 	3 out of 26 does not a case make.  Good day.r   				Rob    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2002 14:19:41 +0100tU From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <andrew_nospam.harrison_remove_this@sun#.com>:+ Subject: Re: Sun benchmarketeering campaignm0 Message-ID: <afhnnn$4ob$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   Rob Young wrote:   > In article <afhd3q$1ar$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <andrew_nospam.harrison_remove_this@sun#.com> writes: >  >> >>Rob Young wrote: >> >> >>>In article <aff9bn$a8r$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <andrew_nospam.harrison_remove_this@sun#.com> writes:i >>>i >>>u >>>>Rob Young wrote: >>>> >>>>> >>>	He states: "Itanium 2's 3 MB cache, skew the results sinceC >>>	they can accomadate the entire benchmark program and thus don't + >>>	have to [go] off-die to access memory"   >>> 6 >>>	That is totally incorrect.  Spin Spin Spin Andrew. >>>u >>>, >>E >>Sorry but again you are wrong having a L1 cache that big means thatiA >>3 of the 26 SPEC benchmark have a working set size which is now  >>entirely in the l1 cache u >> > > > 	Never claimed all.  The documentation doesn't claim that.  / > 	3 out of 26 does not a case make.  Good day.' >     3 And do you understand what increased cache hit rate. means ?m   Incedentally  1 How about a response to my pointing out that youra0 SPECint is a great systems test is a spectacular/ gaffe on your part ? If SPECint is such a great-. systems test in your words then why does it do/ such a poor job on GS boxes of predicting TPC-Ce2 numbers, remember you claim the TPC-C is a usefull, measure to compare Compaqs with other boxes.  . Either one is good and the other isn't or they are both not very usefull ?A  0 You seem to have in your enthusiam to FUD Sun as/ evidenced by your creating of this thread endede. up in a situation where you cannot wriggle and twist your way out.h  ( I await your answer with great interest.       Regardsy Andrew Harrisona   ------------------------------    Date: 28 Jun 2002 10:54:24 -0600+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young)s+ Subject: Re: Sun benchmarketeering campaign 3 Message-ID: <YfrDIp3DnHFV@eisner.encompasserve.org>o   In article <afhnnn$4ob$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <andrew_nospam.harrison_remove_this@sun#.com> writes: >  >  > Rob Young wrote: >  >> In article <afhd3q$1ar$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <andrew_nospam.harrison_remove_this@sun#.com> writes:r >> C >>>H >>>Rob Young wrote:m >>>m >>>k >>>>In article <aff9bn$a8r$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <andrew_nospam.harrison_remove_this@sun#.com> writes: >>>> >>>> >>>>>Rob Young wrote:: >>>>>o >>>>>c? >>>>	He states: "Itanium 2's 3 MB cache, skew the results sinceyD >>>>	they can accomadate the entire benchmark program and thus don't, >>>>	have to [go] off-die to access memory"  >>>>7 >>>>	That is totally incorrect.  Spin Spin Spin Andrew.n >>>> >>>> >>>hF >>>Sorry but again you are wrong having a L1 cache that big means thatB >>>3 of the 26 SPEC benchmark have a working set size which is now >>>entirely in the l1 cache  >>>) >>  ? >> 	Never claimed all.  The documentation doesn't claim that.  w0 >> 	3 out of 26 does not a case make.  Good day. >> d >  > 5 > And do you understand what increased cache hit rate(	 > means ?n >   B 	Yes.  And do you understand that CPUs with less than 1 MB on-chip> 	cache outperform CPUs with more than 5 MByte on-chip cache inD 	SpecInt2000?  Overall, and in 8 out of the 12 SpecInt2000 programs?< 	And most importantly.... 2 of the programs that fit in less= 	than 3 MByte of cache (but more than 1 MByte) eon and craftya( 	the less than 1 MByte cache CPU wins.     	How do you like them apples?n  F 	Give you a hint... think speed, think architecture (or in Sun's case, 	lack thereof).   B 	Another thing.  2 out of the 26 will fit in 3 MByte of cache, not 	3 as you earlier stated.i   > Incedentally > 3 > How about a response to my pointing out that yourc2 > SPECint is a great systems test is a spectacular > gaffe on your part ?  > 	Of course it is a great systems test.  The CPU is part of the= 	system,  memory is part of the system, compilers are part ofr 	the system.  B 	SpecInt is a great test.  Specfp is a great test.  They both haveD 	evolved considerably since Spec89.  SpecInt is a great test because? 	the 12 programs that make up the suite were chosen.  Chosen inmB 	the hopes of reflecting real-world application performance.  Call= 	for programs for SPEC2004 went out recently and can be foundp 	here:  % http://www.specbench.org/osg/cpu2000/e  ! SPEC CPU Benchmark Search ProgramrN SPEC has set up a SPEC CPU Benchmark Search Program, designed to encourage andL recognize achievements of the academic and industrial community in providingM and developing application code and datasets that could be used as componentsfM for the next version of the SPEC CPU benchmark suites (currently targeted forwO release as SPEC CPU2004). Program details and a link to the submission form cannN be found at: http://www.spec.org/osg/cpu/CPU2004/search_program.html. For eachN step of the process that a submission passes, SPEC will compensate the programK submitter. A submission that passes all of the steps and is included in the L next SPEC CPU benchmark suite will, overall, receive $5000 and a license for the released benchmark suite.   8 	These are the programs.  Programs that stress a system:  B SPEC has held to the principle that better benchmarks are based onH applications, and these applications can come from any area of work. ForF example, the current SPEC CPU2000 suite includes applications from the following areas: s   	AI game theory  	compilers   	interpreters  	data compression  	databases   	weather prediction  	fluid dynamics 	 	physics u 	chemistry o 	image processing   E 	What group of the above programs would not stress a system?  Oh, let = 	me guess... it doesn't stress the I/O system.  Okay, by thatSB 	yard stick no benchmark is a system test as we can find something) 	that isn't being measured in every test.r   > 2 > You seem to have in your enthusiam to FUD Sun as1 > evidenced by your creating of this thread endeda0 > up in a situation where you cannot wriggle and > twist your way out.  >   3 	I'm only getting started.  There a number of holeskG 	in your support of Mr. Yen that require detailed technical response.  v  $ 	Something you seldom supply, right?  * > I await your answer with great interest.  H 	You may be awaiting.  But like Zinc Whiskers and Data Center Humidity, ' 	you are probably not going to like it.[   				Rob   N "Of the whole rabble of thieves, the fools are the worst; they rob you of both-  time and peace of mind."         --Goethe       ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2002 17:36:16 +0100iU From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <andrew_nospam.harrison_remove_this@sun#.com>n+ Subject: Re: Sun benchmarketeering campaign 0 Message-ID: <afi38a$8f2$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   Rob Young wrote:   > In article <afhnnn$4ob$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <andrew_nospam.harrison_remove_this@sun#.com> writes: >  >> >>Rob Young wrote: >> >> >>>In article <afhd3q$1ar$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <andrew_nospam.harrison_remove_this@sun#.com> writes:e >>>  >>>0 >>>>Rob Young wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>In article <aff9bn$a8r$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <andrew_nospam.harrison_remove_this@sun#.com> writes:E >>>>>t >>>>>  >>>>>o >>>>>>Rob Young wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>nG >>>>Sorry but again you are wrong having a L1 cache that big means that0C >>>>3 of the 26 SPEC benchmark have a working set size which is now  >>>>entirely in the l1 cache   >>>> >>>>? >>>	Never claimed all.  The documentation doesn't claim that.   0 >>>	3 out of 26 does not a case make.  Good day. >>>s >>>u >>5 >>And do you understand what increased cache hit ratee	 >>means ?a >> >> > D > 	Yes.  And do you understand that CPUs with less than 1 MB on-chip@ > 	cache outperform CPUs with more than 5 MByte on-chip cache inF > 	SpecInt2000?  Overall, and in 8 out of the 12 SpecInt2000 programs?> > 	And most importantly.... 2 of the programs that fit in less? > 	than 3 MByte of cache (but more than 1 MByte) eon and crafty * > 	the less than 1 MByte cache CPU wins.   >     ; Well since there are currently no CPU's that I know of withN= a 5 MB onchip cache with a published SPECint or SPECfp numbert> for them I guess your point isn't a terribly clever one is it.      3 >>How about a response to my pointing out that youro2 >>SPECint is a great systems test is a spectacular >>gaffe on your part ? >> > @ > 	Of course it is a great systems test.  The CPU is part of the? > 	system,  memory is part of the system, compilers are part of, > 	the system. > D > 	SpecInt is a great test.  Specfp is a great test.  They both haveF > 	evolved considerably since Spec89.  SpecInt is a great test becauseA > 	the 12 programs that make up the suite were chosen.  Chosen in D > 	the hopes of reflecting real-world application performance.  Call? > 	for programs for SPEC2004 went out recently and can be founda > 	here:    8 Compute bound applications, in case you hadn't worked it8 out the fact that the SPEC benchmark suite also includes6 SPECweb, SPECsfs, SPECjbb etc some of which do I/O and4 some of which use OS services like threads and JVM's8 should be an indication even to you that SPEC themselves do not agree with you.  7 The fact that there isn't a SPEC DBMS is because of thef9 existance of TPC but if TPC didn't exist then there woulds' probably be a SPECdb benchmark as well.      > ' > http://www.specbench.org/osg/cpu2000/o > # > SPEC CPU Benchmark Search Program P > SPEC has set up a SPEC CPU Benchmark Search Program, designed to encourage andN > recognize achievements of the academic and industrial community in providingO > and developing application code and datasets that could be used as componentss: > 	These are the programs.  Programs that stress a system: > D > SPEC has held to the principle that better benchmarks are based onJ > applications, and these applications can come from any area of work. ForH > example, the current SPEC CPU2000 suite includes applications from the > following areas:   >  > 	AI game theory 
 > 	compilers P > 	interpreters  > 	data compression 
 > 	databases s > 	weather prediction  > 	fluid dynamics  > 	physics e
 > 	chemistry   > 	image processing  > G > 	What group of the above programs would not stress a system?  Oh, leto? > 	me guess... it doesn't stress the I/O system.  Okay, by that D > 	yard stick no benchmark is a system test as we can find something+ > 	that isn't being measured in every test.m >   > None do any I/O of any note, none get any significant benefitsB from running on a 64 bit system, none of them make any significant use of any OS facilities.l   Filesystem - I/O no.! Virtual Memory and scheduling no.n
 Threading no.f Context switching no. 
 Real time no.  Memory subsystem hot spots no.  + They all fit in less than 200 MB of RAM and , can given the right configuration run almost) entirely in cache as demonstrated by IBM.a  , They arn't even latency limitted unlike many applications as you know.i  3 Now if you think that a "System" is a CPU/Cache and 0 sometimes a bit of main memory then you are 100%6 right SPECint is a great "systems benchmark" otherwise
 they are not.i  - And then of course we get to the crux of youro/ problem, if it is such a good systems benchmarke/ then how do you explain all the GS320 benchmarkn+ results apart from SPECint and SPECfp which 1 cannot be predicted by Alphas SPECint/fp numbers..     > 2 >>You seem to have in your enthusiam to FUD Sun as1 >>evidenced by your creating of this thread ended 0 >>up in a situation where you cannot wriggle and >>twist your way out.d >> >> > 5 > 	I'm only getting started.  There a number of holesSI > 	in your support of Mr. Yen that require detailed technical response.  h > & > 	Something you seldom supply, right? >     - Ohh come on Rob are you really that deluded ?a- I would really welcome a technical discussionC- with you, it hasn't happend yet but if you uph" your game then it may be possible.   regards  Andrew HarrisonB   ------------------------------    Date: 28 Jun 2002 12:24:37 -0600+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young)S+ Subject: Re: Sun benchmarketeering campaignn3 Message-ID: <0ljq11rbuKMv@eisner.encompasserve.org>e   In article <afi38a$8f2$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <andrew_nospam.harrison_remove_this@sun#.com> writes: >  >  > Rob Young wrote: >  >> In article <afhnnn$4ob$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <andrew_nospam.harrison_remove_this@sun#.com> writes:i >> d >>>h >>>Rob Young wrote:m >>>  >>>s >>>>In article <afhd3q$1ar$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <andrew_nospam.harrison_remove_this@sun#.com> writes: >>>> >>>> >>>>>Rob Young wrote:e >>>>>e >>>>>s >>>>>t >>>>>>In article <aff9bn$a8r$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <andrew_nospam.harrison_remove_this@sun#.com> writes: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>Rob Young wrote:t >>>>>>>. >>>>>>>n >>>>>>>h >>>>>>H >>>>>Sorry but again you are wrong having a L1 cache that big means thatD >>>>>3 of the 26 SPEC benchmark have a working set size which is now >>>>>entirely in the l1 cache  >>>>>w >>>>>i@ >>>>	Never claimed all.  The documentation doesn't claim that.  1 >>>>	3 out of 26 does not a case make.  Good day.n >>>> >>>> >>> 6 >>>And do you understand what increased cache hit rate
 >>>means ? >>>h >>>e >> eE >> 	Yes.  And do you understand that CPUs with less than 1 MB on-chiptA >> 	cache outperform CPUs with more than 5 MByte on-chip cache infG >> 	SpecInt2000?  Overall, and in 8 out of the 12 SpecInt2000 programs? ? >> 	And most importantly.... 2 of the programs that fit in lessh@ >> 	than 3 MByte of cache (but more than 1 MByte) eon and crafty+ >> 	the less than 1 MByte cache CPU wins.  s >> r >  > = > Well since there are currently no CPU's that I know of witht? > a 5 MB onchip cache with a published SPECint or SPECfp numbers@ > for them I guess your point isn't a terribly clever one is it. >   = 	Well yes.  But in your haste to reply you assume I am makingn> 	a big mistake.  You wouldn't be correct.  By running just oneA 	processor of a two processor core IBM has posted SpecInt/Specfp.CD 	All 3 L2s are accessed by the single processor.  Details everywhereE 	to be found and yes, according to nomenclature considered on-die ande@ 	I will agree with that.  The reason is simple.  L2 runs at coreA 	speed.  If it ran at anything less than core speed, I don't care 7 	where it is located, it isn't very interesting, is it?    	Reference?  Sure...  - http://www.digit-life.com/articles/ibmpower4/m  
 4. POWER4 die   C The POWER4 houses 2 processors each having an L1 cache for data andaJ instructions. The die has a single L2 cache of 1450 KBytes controlled by 3L separate controllers connected to the cores via a CIU (Core Interface Unit).K The controllers work independently and can process 32 bytes per clock. EacheN processor uses two separate 256-bit buses to connect the CIU for data fetchingN and data loading, as well as a separate 64-bit bus to save the results; the L2G cache has a bandwidth of 100 GBytes/s. The L2 cache's system looks welltH balanced and very powerful. Each processor has a special unit to supportN noncachable operations (Noncacheable Unit). The L3 controller and the memory'sO one are located on die as well. For connection with the L3 cache working at 1/3kH of the processor's speed and with the memory there are two 128-bit busesK operating at 1/3 of the processor's frequency. The throughput of the memorytO interface is about 11 GBytes/s. Data flows coming from the memory and L2 and L3oK caches and the buses of the chips are controlled by the Fabric Controller: a     >>  ( >> http://www.specbench.org/osg/cpu2000/ >> h$ >> SPEC CPU Benchmark Search ProgramQ >> SPEC has set up a SPEC CPU Benchmark Search Program, designed to encourage andyO >> recognize achievements of the academic and industrial community in providing4P >> and developing application code and datasets that could be used as components; >> 	These are the programs.  Programs that stress a system:  >> gE >> SPEC has held to the principle that better benchmarks are based onaK >> applications, and these applications can come from any area of work. ForyI >> example, the current SPEC CPU2000 suite includes applications from the  >> following areas:  >> l >> 	AI game theory s >> 	compilers  >> 	interpreters U >> 	data compression _ >> 	databases  >> 	weather prediction t >> 	fluid dynamics > >> 	physics  >> 	chemistry  >> 	image processing   >>  H >> 	What group of the above programs would not stress a system?  Oh, let@ >> 	me guess... it doesn't stress the I/O system.  Okay, by thatE >> 	yard stick no benchmark is a system test as we can find something , >> 	that isn't being measured in every test. >> i > @ > None do any I/O of any note, none get any significant benefitsD > from running on a 64 bit system, none of them make any significant > use of any OS facilities.d >   = 	So?  TPC-H does little to exercise the floating point units.kC 	Not enough system stuff for you sure.  But it certainly is a good tB 	indicator of just how well hardware runs given applications that  	*MOST* people are using.      > Filesystem - I/O no.# > Virtual Memory and scheduling no.  > Threading no.  > Context switching no.o > Real time no.     < 	I never claimed it was an OS test.  It is a test to see howF 	well hardware is able to be pushed.  I contend hardware is important.) 	I contend hardware encompasses a system.a    - > They all fit in less than 200 MB of RAM andl. > can given the right configuration run almost+ > entirely in cache as demonstrated by IBM.t  @ 	And yet their benchmarks don't reflect dominance, so your point@ 	is?  Besides, the issue isn't IBM , I stated that earlier.  The= 	issue is Mr. Yen's statement.  It is a false statement.  His 9 	attempts to downplay Itanium 2 because his company's CPUv. 	is under-powered in comparison are laughable.   >> c6 >> 	I'm only getting started.  There a number of holesJ >> 	in your support of Mr. Yen that require detailed technical response.   >> C' >> 	Something you seldom supply, right?_ >> s >  > / > Ohh come on Rob are you really that deluded ?r/ > I would really welcome a technical discussionw/ > with you, it hasn't happend yet but if you upo$ > your game then it may be possible. >   = 	Sure.  And watch how fast the IBM notes above get trimmed or1 	spun.  Spin on Andrew.A  ? 	Here is another issue Andrew.  Given P4's 512K L2 and no L3 ins? 	comparison to the UltraSparc's 8 MByte L2, how come UltraSparc>> 	does better at *ONE* application compared to P4?  By your ownC 	line of reasoning UltraSparc would surely best P4 at eon , crafty,s2 	and twolf as all 3 easily fit in UltraSparc's L2.  A 	Let me guess... cache hit rates is why P4 outperforms UltraSparc>D 	on all of those?  Mr. Yen hasn't a leg to stand on and you know it. 	Much more later...o   				RobE   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2002 10:31:15 +0100hU From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <andrew_nospam.harrison_remove_this@sun#.com>  Subject: Re: TCO study/ Message-ID: <afhabd$ha$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>d   Main, Kerry wrote:  	 > Andrew,t >  > B >>>>so why would Sun need to provide a result for a benchmark that >>>>$ > everyone accepts is very flawed.<< > 6 > By "everyone", I suspect you mean "everyone at Sun"? > E > Lets see now, you don't like Spec benchmarks because they are a cput > measurement only.  > H > Ok, but now you don't like TPC benchmarks because you don't agree withE > the way they measure system throughput even though IBM, HP, Compaq, / > Bull, Fujitsu, etc are officially ok with it?r >  > D >>>>I guess if you think that having the worst benchmark numbers for >>>>- > TPC-C when compared with current systems<<<t > F > Andrew, do your homework - GS320's are number 4 and number 10 in the > current TPC standings.= > http://www.ideasinternational.com/benchmark/tpc/tpccnc.htmlo >     ( I have thats the problem and you havn't.  8 Your TCO white paper lists the GS320 as being comparable; to the Sun F15000, SuperDome, P690 and the Fujitsu servers. - This is the large server category I refer to.i  8 Your TCO white paper lists the GS160 as being comparable! with the Sun F6800, IBM P680 etc. 4 This is the medium sized server category I refer to.  6 In the large server category and you chose the systems6 the GS320 is last of the published results for systems7 by a margin that is big enough to make its inclusion ina that category highly suspect.t  ; Incedentally its has almost exactly the same performance asa6 the P680 a box that you categorise as being comparable4 with the GS160 measured using the benchmark you seem to be clinging to TPC-C.  5 So by your own admision and postings the TCO study isC3 BS, using TPC-C you cannot justify the inclusion ofs1 the GS320 in the large server category, otherwiseh. you should drop the F15000 entirely (we havn't. done a number) and or add the P680 in as well.  1 Great spin Kerry shame its just bitten you on the  foot.l  5 Either you drop your pretense that TPC-C is a usefulls4 benchmark and I can get back to bashing you over the( head for woefull performance on SAP etc.  9 Or you keep claiming its a valid comparison in which case # you trash your own TCO white paper.a  4 Let me know which of the rock and the hard place you choose.b   Regardsr Andrew Harrisonc     > :-)  > F > As far as declining market share goes, I keep emphasizng to you thatG > those in glass houses should not throw rocks. A few examples from CNN  > and VAR Business magazines:  > J > http://money.cnn.com/2002/04/29/commentary/bottomline/lashinsky/index.ht > mcF > More trouble for Sun Micro - Sun will lose out if it keeps trying to > battle Intel.l > I > http://www.varbusiness.com/sections/columns/columns.asp?ArticleID=35611.1 > "It's Time For You to Get Out of the Sun MarkettG > Sun's channel is in serious trouble; many loyalists switch platforms,t > focus" > 	 > Regardsa >  > Kerry Main > Senior Consultantv > Hewlett-Packard Canada# > Consulting & Integration Servicest > Voice: 613-592-4660i > Fax   : 613-591-4477 > Email: Kerry.Main@hp.com >  >  > -----Original Message-----) > From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancye7 > [mailto:andrew_nospam.harrison_remove_this@sun#.com]   > Sent: June 27, 2002 8:25 AMr > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com  > Subject: Re: TCO study >  >  >  >  > Main, Kerry wrote: >  > F >>>>>Of course they will, but to customers buying your systems now its >>>>>e >>>>>e3 >>what they are capable of now thats important ..<<t >>5 >>Yep, and that's why Customers continue to buy them.- >> >> >> >  > 6 > Really, so declining from 11% of the Market to 5% is5 > a victory because 5% still means that customers aree > still buying systems ! > 6 > I guess if you think that having the worst benchmark6 > numbers for TPC-C when compared with current systems9 > that you categorise as being the same size as the GS320n8 > is acceptable then a mere halving of your market share > is also great. >  >  > I >>>>>No they don't sorry, the GS320's numbers are quite frankly terrible.n >>>>>r >>>>>UH >>Worse than Fujitsu and more expensive, worse than IBM (P690) and more H >>expensive, worse than SuperDome and more expensive, almost the same as >> > # >>a IBM P680 and more expensive.<<<  >>? >>Yada, yada, yada - let me know when Sun does a TPC benchmark.s >> >> > ; > I don't need to I have 3 very acceptable benchmarks and 6> > G > very acceptable benchmark results, so why would Sun need to provide at> > result for a benchmark that everyone accepts is very flawed. > 	 > Regards> > Andrew Harrisonc >  >  >  >    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2002 12:21:00 GMT	/ From: "Mark E. Levy" <mlevy70-nospam@attbi.com>s Subject: Re: TCO study. Message-ID: <MwYS8.185789$nZ3.89679@rwcrnsc53>  # "Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy" > <andrew_nospam.harrison_remove_this@sun#.com> wrote in message) news:afhabd$ha$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com...a   ..snip..  3 > Great spin Kerry shame its just bitten you on the0 > foot.?  K Y'know, Andrew, it seems that spin is only an issue when you're not the onet	 doing it.(  H As I said earlier in the thread, your credibility in this ng hovers near zero. Give it up.l  	 Mark Levya   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2002 14:05:19 +0100iU From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <andrew_nospam.harrison_remove_this@sun#.com>  Subject: Re: TCO study0 Message-ID: <afhmsp$4g5$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   Mark E. Levy wrote:t  % > "Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy"t@ > <andrew_nospam.harrison_remove_this@sun#.com> wrote in message+ > news:afhabd$ha$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com...  > 
 > ..snip.. >  > 3 >>Great spin Kerry shame its just bitten you on thet >>foot.  >> > M > Y'know, Andrew, it seems that spin is only an issue when you're not the oner > doing it.u > J > As I said earlier in the thread, your credibility in this ng hovers near > zero. Give it up.a >     8 Really, well then I guess thats just a cross I will have	 to carry.   5 I suspect however that most people recognise only toop4 well what Kerry is trying to do rather unsucessfully# and understand where the spin lies.n  3 And before you respond with the time old, this is aI/ openvms newsgroup so why are you here, remembers2 the TCO "white paper" refers to Sun and I am quite/ within my rights to correct the mistakes in it.a  6 Its also in your interests, you wouldn't as an OpenVMS5 advocate want to make the incredibly basic mistake ofr9 walking into an argument for example about which platformw5 to use armed with a set of supporting collateral fromS3 Compaq that was as is the case for the TCO documentk so easy to refute.     regardsu   Andrew Harrisonz   ------------------------------    Date: 28 Jun 2002 06:39:45 -07006 From: andrew.rycroft@intrinsitech.com (Andrew Rycroft) Subject: Re: TCO study= Message-ID: <58ba0101.0206280539.6714a285@posting.google.com>   \ "labadie" <labadie_g@decus.fr> wrote in message news:<R5WR8.7$6A5.17426@news.cpqcorp.net>... > Some thoughts about TCO. > M > I have been recently to Decus Lyon, and talked to a Vms System Engineer. Hei9 > works now on Vms and a Unix (I will not say which one). K > He said that, in his opinion, the TCO of his Unix machines was very, verya > high compared to Vms.dL > He said that he was called too often during the night or the week-end, andH > that he could not understand why they were working with that Operating6 > System, not reliable at all, a nightmare as he said. > 2 > I guess a honest study about TCO does not exist.M > If  Ibm (or HP, or ...) has one, it will only reflect the relative power of/" > the Mvs, Aix, OS 400 inside Ibm. > M >  I do not talk about  a study by D H Brown, paid by Microsoft, to show thats; > Linux was more expensive than NT, or something like that.o > 4 > I guess a honest study about TCO is an oxymoron...  @ As I heard someone say - TCO is the problem, ROI is the solution     > 	 > RegardsB >  > Grard   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 29 Jun 2002 00:35:44 +1000a= From: "Mark\(unMASK\)Forsyth" <forsytMhm@optAushoSme.com.aKu>p Subject: Re: TCO study5 Message-ID: <E804CCC146C68EE708FCDEFCF0F857E9@plague>   ! Talk about a tiresome prat. PLONK    Ooroo (for good)	 Mark F...a    # "Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy"y> <andrew_nospam.harrison_remove_this@sun#.com> wrote in message* news:afhmsp$4g5$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com... >  >n > Mark E. Levy wrote:  > ' > > "Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy"iB > > <andrew_nospam.harrison_remove_this@sun#.com> wrote in message- > > news:afhabd$ha$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com...i > >  > > ..snip.. > >n > >y5 > >>Great spin Kerry shame its just bitten you on theo	 > >>foot.  > >> > >gK > > Y'know, Andrew, it seems that spin is only an issue when you're not ther oneu
 > > doing it.  > > L > > As I said earlier in the thread, your credibility in this ng hovers near > > zero. Give it up.p > >i >? > : > Really, well then I guess thats just a cross I will have > to carry.o >a7 > I suspect however that most people recognise only toou6 > well what Kerry is trying to do rather unsucessfully% > and understand where the spin lies.- >-5 > And before you respond with the time old, this is a 1 > openvms newsgroup so why are you here, remember:4 > the TCO "white paper" refers to Sun and I am quite1 > within my rights to correct the mistakes in it.3 >88 > Its also in your interests, you wouldn't as an OpenVMS7 > advocate want to make the incredibly basic mistake of:; > walking into an argument for example about which platform@7 > to use armed with a set of supporting collateral from 5 > Compaq that was as is the case for the TCO document  > so easy to refute. >w >e	 > regards> >  > Andrew Harrisond >1 >1 >w   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2002 16:35:06 +0100sU From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <andrew_nospam.harrison_remove_this@sun#.com>> Subject: Re: TCO study0 Message-ID: <afhvlk$7bc$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   Mark(unMASK)Forsyth wrote:  # > Talk about a tiresome prat. PLONKi >  > Ooroo (for good) > Mark F...R >  >   ) His loss he might have learn't something.>   Regardsy Andrew Harrisone   ------------------------------  + Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2002 11:08:33 -0500 (CDT)e From: sms@antinode.org Subject: Re: TCO study) Message-ID: <02062811083346@antinode.org>r  U From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <andrew_nospam.harrison_remove_this@sun#.com>m  + > His loss he might have learn't something.o  F    From Mr. Harrison, he's about as likely to learn how to construct aF sentence, or the proper use of apostrophes, as he is to learn anything7 else of much value, in my carefully considered opinion.c  $    Or would that be "apostrophie's"?  H ------------------------------------------------------------------------  C    Steven M. Schweda               (+1) 651-699-9818  (voice, home)hC    382 South Warwick Street        (+1) 763-781-0308  (voice, work) G    Saint Paul  MN  55105-2547      (+1) 763-781-0309  (facsimile, work)f9    sms@antinode.org                sms@provis.com  (work)P   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2002 17:11:19 GMTs From: sasadmin <jec@nospam.net>u Subject: Re: TCO study2 Message-ID: <87y9czl3mp.fsf@Alethion.systasis.net>   sms@antinode.org writes:  W > From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <andrew_nospam.harrison_remove_this@sun#.com>e > - > > His loss he might have learn't something.  > H >    From Mr. Harrison, he's about as likely to learn how to construct a- > sentence, or the proper use of apostrophes,a >o > ...e  K Please (re-)read Bill The Quill. You might want to reconsider your Americanc English chauvinism.n  O I agree Andrew may sometimes be over the top, but I welcome a dissenting P.O.V.m  I That said, Andrew, do you have any remarks on the var Business editorial?1   Regards, &c    -- n Microsoft Free By 2003   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2002 15:31:54 +0200e( From: Kees Bekema <cab4.11@inter.nl.net>* Subject: TCP transfer speed using UCX V4.28 Message-ID: <3moohu4dqdn1uvh6l5l8e4f2h11fkdh873@4ax.com>   Hi.p  9 I am a service engineer of medical equipment, like MRI's. / These MRI's use VMS with UCX version 4.2 ECO 3. E Images created on the MRI are exported over the network to an archive 7 station. Image format is DICOM. Transported via TCP/IP.aD My question is can I fine-tune the performance of the image transferA via TCP/IP? Is there a possibility to change the TCP window size?e< Via sniffing I found out that the window size is 4096 bytes.  < Is it possible to change the window size in UCX version 4.2? How do I do this?r= If this is possible, is there a maximum for this window size?e Any negative side effects?  ( Notice that this is not an FTP transfer.' It is a DICOM file transfer via TCP/IP.o   Thanks in advanceo Kees Bekemaa   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2002 08:31:11 +0100h( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1> Subject: Re: TCP/IPE) Message-ID: <3D1C10BF.2A93D54D@127.0.0.1>    Christian C Ekstam wrote:a > G > Thank you very much for your post, do you have any URL to a page thatvN > describes the basics of running a VMS system? Something in the style of "VMS > for dummies" =)  >  > Cinda new to this. >  > ChristianSA > (My friend just got his hands on a VAX 4000-300 and a VLC 4000)   5 http://www.openvms.compaq.com/wizard/openvms_faq.html   5 https://mendel.bio.caltech.edu/vms_beginners_faq.htmls  C OpenVMS users guide in the documentation previously linked is quiteI good.h  + http://www.openvms.compaq.com/training.html	   OpenVMS primer.    -- a? Regards, Nic Clews a.k.a. Mr. CP Charges, CSC Computer Sciencesc nclews at csc dot com	   ------------------------------    Date: 28 Jun 2002 07:46:45 -0600- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)t Subject: Re: TCP/IP/3 Message-ID: <aiHtxHQThhlX@eisner.encompasserve.org>   c In article <JwQS8.13749$p56.4390387@newsb.telia.net>, "Christian C Ekstam" <md0@berusad.nu> writes:oG > Thank you very much for your post, do you have any URL to a page thatiN > describes the basics of running a VMS system? Something in the style of "VMS > for dummies" =)   H    That very subject has been discussed here many times.  Before you canG    run any system you have to know that system.  To get to know VMS, wew,    could write a "dummies" book in one word:      helpp   ------------------------------  / Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2002 07:59:49 +0200 (MET DST)h& From: Rudolf Wingert <win@fom.fgan.de>' Subject: Re: Trouble with BACKUP/RECORD 6 Message-ID: <200206280559.HAA15604@sinet1.fom.fgan.de>   Hello,   Roland Barmettler wrote:   >>> A The backup date in the file header reads: 27-JUN-2002 09:27:22.22aC which is clearly _before_ 27-JUN-2002 09:28:18 when I did the "SHOWr; TIME" after the backup/record. That's what's puzzling me...t <<<A  B AFAIK the creation date is relevant , if you use a BACKUP/noRECORDA command. May be I am not right, but did you look at the creation,i= revision date and time too? An explanation could be, that thet@ creation date is in the future, but the backup date in the past.   Regards Rudolf Wingert   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2002 08:39:38 GMT>+ From: Roland Barmettler <rob@bbp.ch.remove>a' Subject: Re: Trouble with BACKUP/RECORDe7 Message-ID: <20020628103935.000345f0.rob@bbp.ch.remove>e   Hi All  
 OK, again:   NABOO:$ sh time    28-JUN-2002 09:46:30  , NABOO:$ backup/rec/log *.txt;* test.bck/saveA %BACKUP-S-COPIED, copied DSA0:[SYS0.][SYSMGR]ANNOUNCE_ALCOR.TXT;2 B %BACKUP-S-COPIED, copied DSA0:[SYS0.][SYSMGR]ANNOUNCE_NABOO.TXT;12 %BACKUP-S-COPIED, copied7 DSA0:[SYS0.][SYSMGR]DECNET_REGISTER_IMPORT_FILE_NABOO.T3 XT;1 %BACKUP-S-COPIED, copied7 DSA0:[SYS0.SYSCOMMON.][SYSMGR]TCPIP$BINDSETUP_HELP.TXT;O 1 D %BACKUP-S-COPIED, copied DSA0:[SYS0.SYSCOMMON.][SYSMGR]WELCOME.TXT;1: %BACKUP-I-STARTRECORD, starting backup date recording pass   $! checking record dates NABOO:$ dir/full WELCOME.TXT;1   Directory SYS$COMMON:[SYSMGR]t  > WELCOME.TXT;1                 File ID:  (2364,1,0)            0 Size:            1/35         Owner:    [SYSTEM]" Created:   18-JAN-1990 14:55:16.00& Revised:    7-FEB-1990 20:13:15.41 (3) Expires:   <None specified>s" Backup:    28-JUN-2002 09:47:09.81 Effective: <None specified>R Recording: <None specified>h File organization:  Sequential Shelved state:      Online n  Caching attribute:  WritethroughE File attributes:    Allocation: 35, Extend: 0, Global buffer count: 0p$                     No version limitF Record format:      Variable length, maximum 0 bytes, longest 57 bytes4 Record attributes:  Carriage return carriage control RMS attributes:     None Journaling enabled: None? File protection:    System:RWED, Owner:RWED, Group:RE, World:REs Access Cntrl List:  None Client attributes:  None   NABOO:$ sh timee   28-JUN-2002 09:47:38  D NABOO:$ backup/norec/log *.txt;*/modified/since=backup test.bck/saveA %BACKUP-S-COPIED, copied DSA0:[SYS0.][SYSMGR]ANNOUNCE_ALCOR.TXT;2 B %BACKUP-S-COPIED, copied DSA0:[SYS0.][SYSMGR]ANNOUNCE_NABOO.TXT;12 %BACKUP-S-COPIED, copied7 DSA0:[SYS0.][SYSMGR]DECNET_REGISTER_IMPORT_FILE_NABOO.Tc XT;1 %BACKUP-S-COPIED, copied7 DSA0:[SYS0.SYSCOMMON.][SYSMGR]TCPIP$BINDSETUP_HELP.TXT;u 1cD %BACKUP-S-COPIED, copied DSA0:[SYS0.SYSCOMMON.][SYSMGR]WELCOME.TXT;1   Total of 1 file, 1/35 blocks.i  A I really don't find the problem. It can't be that difficult to dow# incremental backups, can it...  ;-)i   Thanks for the help so far!c   Greetings, Roland3  F --------------- bbp - Biveroni Batschelet Partners AG ----------------:              Bahnhofstrasse 28, CH-5401 Baden, SwitzerlandF ----------------------------------------------------------------------   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2002 09:08:40 -0400e- From: "Richard D. Piccard" <piccard@ohio.edu> ' Subject: Re: Trouble with BACKUP/RECORD ( Message-ID: <3D1C5FD7.1B1C5086@ohio.edu>  W Have you checked the modification and backup dates for all directories containing thesemR files?  I seem to recall that BACKUP sometimes catches files unexpectedly if their( directory is not recorded as backed up.    				RDP      Roland Barmettler wrote: >  > Hi All >  > OK, again: >  > NABOO:$ sh time  >   28-JUN-2002 09:46:30 > . > NABOO:$ backup/rec/log *.txt;* test.bck/saveC > %BACKUP-S-COPIED, copied DSA0:[SYS0.][SYSMGR]ANNOUNCE_ALCOR.TXT;20D > %BACKUP-S-COPIED, copied DSA0:[SYS0.][SYSMGR]ANNOUNCE_NABOO.TXT;12 > %BACKUP-S-COPIED, copied9 > DSA0:[SYS0.][SYSMGR]DECNET_REGISTER_IMPORT_FILE_NABOO.Tm > XT;1 > %BACKUP-S-COPIED, copied9 > DSA0:[SYS0.SYSCOMMON.][SYSMGR]TCPIP$BINDSETUP_HELP.TXT;  > 1sF > %BACKUP-S-COPIED, copied DSA0:[SYS0.SYSCOMMON.][SYSMGR]WELCOME.TXT;1< > %BACKUP-I-STARTRECORD, starting backup date recording pass >  > $! checking record dates  > NABOO:$ dir/full WELCOME.TXT;1 >  > Directory SYS$COMMON:[SYSMGR]- > 4 > WELCOME.TXT;1                 File ID:  (2364,1,0)2 > Size:            1/35         Owner:    [SYSTEM]$ > Created:   18-JAN-1990 14:55:16.00( > Revised:    7-FEB-1990 20:13:15.41 (3) > Expires:   <None specified> $ > Backup:    28-JUN-2002 09:47:09.81 > Effective: <None specified>d > Recording: <None specified>.  > File organization:  Sequential > Shelved state:      Online" > Caching attribute:  WritethroughG > File attributes:    Allocation: 35, Extend: 0, Global buffer count: 0@& >                     No version limitH > Record format:      Variable length, maximum 0 bytes, longest 57 bytes6 > Record attributes:  Carriage return carriage control > RMS attributes:     None > Journaling enabled: NoneA > File protection:    System:RWED, Owner:RWED, Group:RE, World:REp > Access Cntrl List:  None > Client attributes:  None >  > NABOO:$ sh timem >   28-JUN-2002 09:47:38 > F > NABOO:$ backup/norec/log *.txt;*/modified/since=backup test.bck/saveC > %BACKUP-S-COPIED, copied DSA0:[SYS0.][SYSMGR]ANNOUNCE_ALCOR.TXT;2oD > %BACKUP-S-COPIED, copied DSA0:[SYS0.][SYSMGR]ANNOUNCE_NABOO.TXT;12 > %BACKUP-S-COPIED, copied9 > DSA0:[SYS0.][SYSMGR]DECNET_REGISTER_IMPORT_FILE_NABOO.T2 > XT;1 > %BACKUP-S-COPIED, copied9 > DSA0:[SYS0.SYSCOMMON.][SYSMGR]TCPIP$BINDSETUP_HELP.TXT;C > 12F > %BACKUP-S-COPIED, copied DSA0:[SYS0.SYSCOMMON.][SYSMGR]WELCOME.TXT;1 >  > Total of 1 file, 1/35 blocks.p > C > I really don't find the problem. It can't be that difficult to dog% > incremental backups, can it...  ;-)  >  > Thanks for the help so far!. >  > Greetings, Rolandr > H > --------------- bbp - Biveroni Batschelet Partners AG ----------------< >              Bahnhofstrasse 28, CH-5401 Baden, SwitzerlandH > ----------------------------------------------------------------------   -- .B ==================================================================B Dick Piccard                           Academic Technology ManagerB piccard@ohio.edu                                 Computer ServicesB http://oak.cats.ohiou.edu/~piccard/                Ohio University   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2002 08:43:33 +020026 From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Jean=2DFran=E7ois=20PI=C9RONNE?= % Subject: Re: Trouble with Samba 2.0.3s+ Message-ID: <3D1C0595.98A332E0@laposte.net>i   > - > Stephen Eickhoff (remove dash below) wrote:  > >pO > > Happens to be VMS 7.3, TCPIP 5.1. That fixed it, although I still get this:  > >m@ > > %TCPIP-E-CONFIGERROR, error processing configuration request+ > > -SYSTEM-F-BADPARAM, bad parameter valuej > >oH > > I also still can't log in, it takes forever to get the logon box and, > > doesn't accept my username and password.I > > At least the service still keeps running. I'm sure I have an error inc0 > > smb.conf or something. Thanks for your help. > 8 > I have never used SAMBA 2.0.3, so I am still guessing. > F > I would recommend seeing if the SMBCLIENT program can connect to the > SMBD program.o > B > Also be aware that you need to be at SAMBA 2.0.6 for OpenVMS for > encrypted passwords to work. >     L You can also try the port of SAMBA 2.2.4 (latest version), done by one of my& colleague, which can be download from + http://www.pi-net.dyndns.org/anonymous/jyc/a        H > For SAMBA 2.0.3 and earlier for OpenVMS, you need to disable encrypted" > passwords on your LANMAN client. >  > -Johnu > wb8tyw@qsl.network > Personal Opinion OnlyV   ------------------------------    Date: 28 Jun 2002 08:32:01 -0600- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) # Subject: when is a typo not a typo? 3 Message-ID: <oNjUYmkWHxSX@eisner.encompasserve.org>o  &    Stuff this is you favorite browser:      www.openvms.copaq.com      That's right: copaq.M   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2002 16:56:57 +0200 . From: "Jesper Naur" <jesper.naur@post.tele.dk> Subject: Re: Xwindows: XDM mode < Message-ID: <3d1c78a6$0$1550$edfadb0f@dspool01.news.tele.dk>  8 JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message& news:3D1BD5D9.D7C804A6@videotron.ca...G > On my MAC, the X windows emulator has a setting for XDM mode of none,  query, > indirect or broadcast. >l > What does this mean ?U  K It is most likely some access control authorization mechanism, which can be I used to prevent unauthorized client programs from opening a connection totH the X-server. It is very briefly mentioned in "Xlib Programming Manual",F look for XDM-AUTHORIZATION-1 in the index of the book. The descriptionK unfortunately doesn't mention, what you can do, and how you are supposed tot do it.       Best regards     Jesper Naur.   ------------------------------   Date: 28 JUN 2002 17:30:44 GMT+ From: Dave Greenwood <greenwoodde@ornl.gov>p Subject: Re: Xwindows: XDM modeB2 Message-ID: <28JUN02.17304453@feda01.fed.ornl.gov>  E In a previous article, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote:.N > On my MAC, the X windows emulator has a setting for XDM mode of none, query, > indirect or broadcast. >  I > What does this mean ?S  / This is a bit of a handwave description, but...C  G XDM (X Display Manager) provides display and session management.  IIRC,-H it basically presents the CDE screen (assuming you use a VMS host).  TheG XDM mode determines how you select the XDM host.  I believe "broadcast"EF mode causes your X emulator to broadcast a request for XDM support andF lists those hosts which offer to provide that support (there may be anE option to automatically select the first to reply).  "Query" probablysD automatically starts XDM on whatever host is specified in some otherG setting.  "Indirect" probably sends a request to the host in that other:D setting and ask it to provide a list of potential XDM hosts.  "None"F probably says "don't run XDM" - although it may let you manually enter an XDM host name somewhere.a  H XDM is not needed - you can probably start telnet or rsh sessions on the9 hosts of your choice from the emulator without using XDM.o   Dave --------------9 Dave Greenwood                Email: Greenwoodde@ORNL.GOV,H Oak Ridge National Lab        %STD-W-DISCLAIMER, I only speak for myself   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2002.353 ************************