1 INFO-VAX	Sat, 29 Jun 2002	Volume 2002 : Issue 355       Contents:; Re: A possible shift in the status of VMS ar HP ???? ERRATA ; Re: A possible shift in the status of VMS ar HP ???? ERRATA - Re: Allowing X-windows through TCPIP firewall  Re: dec 3000-300LX mobo ! Delay in publication of VMS books % Re: Delay in publication of VMS books @ Re: Deutsche Bank would like to outsource there IT to IBM or CSC@ Re: Deutsche Bank would like to outsource there IT to IBM or CSC$ Re: Fearless IPF Prognostications...$ Re: Fearless IPF Prognostications...$ Re: Fearless IPF Prognostications...$ Re: Fearless IPF Prognostications...$ Re: Fearless IPF Prognostications...$ Re: Fearless IPF Prognostications...$ Re: Fearless IPF Prognostications...$ Re: Fearless IPF Prognostications...( Re: Has SMTP RBL list worked for anyone?( Re: Has SMTP RBL list worked for anyone?( RE: Has SMTP RBL list worked for anyone?J Re: Moving Alpha system disks (Re: My conversation with Linus about VMS .., Re: My conversation with Linus about VMS ... Re: New VMS Marketing  Re: New VMS Marketing ; PL/I apps on IPF (was RE: Fearless IPF Prognostications...) ? Re: PL/I apps on IPF (was RE: Fearless IPF Prognostications...) ? Re: PL/I apps on IPF (was RE: Fearless IPF Prognostications...) ? RE: PL/I apps on IPF (was RE: Fearless IPF Prognostications...) ? RE: PL/I apps on IPF (was RE: Fearless IPF Prognostications...) ? Re: PL/I apps on IPF (was RE: Fearless IPF Prognostications...) ? RE: PL/I apps on IPF (was RE: Fearless IPF Prognostications...)  Segmented keys Re: Segmented keys" Re: Sun benchmarketeering campaign% Re: TCP transfer speed using UCX V4.2 % Re: TCP transfer speed using UCX V4.2 % Re: TCP transfer speed using UCX V4.2 
 Re: TCP/IP( Re: TELNET service startup file missing?( Re: TELNET service startup file missing?( Re: TELNET service startup file missing?( Re: TELNET service startup file missing?( Re: TELNET service startup file missing?( Re: TELNET service startup file missing? Re: Worldcom MCI and VMS Re: Worldcom MCI and VMS Re: Worldcom MCI and VMS Re: Worldcom MCI and VMS Re: Worldcom MCI and VMS Re: Worldcom MCI and VMS Re: Worldcom MCI and VMS RE: Worldcom MCI and VMS RE: Worldcom MCI and VMS Re: Worldcom MCI and VMS RE: Worldcom MCI and VMS Re: Xwindows: XDM mode  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 29 Jun 2002 06:31:21 GMT * From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>D Subject: Re: A possible shift in the status of VMS ar HP ???? ERRATAB Message-ID: <ZucT8.456694$%y.32219108@bin4.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>  ? "Andy Bustamante" <a_c_bustamante@bigfoot.com> wrote in message : news:CN4T8.300$uT4.166@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net...B > The columnist was Carl Rowan, he frequenty wrote Washington Post
 editorialsK > calling for strict gun control.  I was living in the Washington area when  heJ > shot an intruder, an no he was never charged despite the strict gun laws in > D.C. >  >  > following quoted from:A > http://www.gmu.edu/departments/economics/wew/quotes/repeal.html  > I > "We must reverse this psychology (of needing guns for home defense). WE  can G > do it by passing a law that says anyone found in possession a handgun  except7 > a legitimate officer of the law goes to jail-period!"  > A > -- Carl Rowan, Washington DC Syndicated Columnist, 1981 article  >  > L > " ... as long as authorities leave this society awash in drugs and guns, I > will protect my family."E > -- Carl Rowan, 1988 article titled "At Least They're Not Writing My  > Obituary"  >  > G > See http://www.stentorian.com/2ndamend/leaflets/rowan.html for what I , > consider an objective history of incident.  6 Remind me never to seek an objective opinion from you.  2 The quotes from Rowan above make two things clear:  I 1.  He does indeed believe that no private citizens (*including* himself) H should be allowed to own handguns (though we still haven't heard whether  John believes anything similar).  C 2.  He believes that *until* such serious efforts to reduce the gun 6 population are made owning one himself may be prudent.  G Two mutually-consistent beliefs without a hint of hypocrisy, but that's I perhaps a bit too complicated for knuckle-draggers to fathom - especially 7 when they're righteously outraged by the first of them.    - bill   >  >  > -- >  > Andy Bustamante * > remove the ascii-95's to reply by e-mail@ > Gun control :== "you're sighted in and can hold a tight group" >  > 7 > "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote in message > > news:doxS8.143866$_j6.7979561@bin3.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com... > > 9 > > "David Froble" <davef@tsoft-inc.com> wrote in message * > > news:3D1A32BF.1000701@tsoft-inc.com... > >  > > ...  > > L > > > One would think that starting such a war would be a real risk for you. > If > > you K > > > practice what you appear to preach, then you won't have any guns, and 	 > > those G > > > you'd be at war with would.  Rather precarious situation for you,  don't  > > you think? > > > L > > > One of the stories that I really liked was the Washington DC newspaper
 > > columnist L > > > who was pro gun control.  Right up til the time someone broke into his > > house orG > > > some such and he broke out HIS gun and shot the guy.  See, HE was 	 > allowed  > > toL > > > have a gun, but nobody else had the same choice, at least as far as he > was  > > > concerned. > > J > > Do you have any evidence whatsoever that either John and the columnist you L > > refer to believe that nobody should be allowed to have a gun, or is thisJ > > just the paranoid extreme gun nuts seem prone to jump to whenever they > hear > > the phrase 'gun control'?  > > 
 > > - bill > >  > >  > >  > >  >  >    ------------------------------   Date: 29 Jun 2002 12:26:38 GMT/ From: Thomas Dickey <dickey@saltmine.radix.net> D Subject: Re: A possible shift in the status of VMS ar HP ???? ERRATA* Message-ID: <afk91u$4al$2@news1.Radix.Net>  3 Andy Bustamante <a_c_bustamante@bigfoot.com> wrote: M > The columnist was Carl Rowan, he frequenty wrote Washington Post editorials N > calling for strict gun control.  I was living in the Washington area when heM > shot an intruder, an no he was never charged despite the strict gun laws in  > D.C.  K however, I did notice that he seemed to have become less conspicuous in the C Post after - probably the incident was not helpful to his business.    --  = Thomas E. Dickey <dickey@radix.net> <dickey@herndon4.his.com>  http://dickey.his.com  ftp://dickey.his.com   ------------------------------   Date: 29 Jun 2002 08:12:43 GMT( From: nmm1@cus.cam.ac.uk (Nick Maclaren)6 Subject: Re: Allowing X-windows through TCPIP firewall0 Message-ID: <afjq5r$94s$1@pegasus.csx.cam.ac.uk>  , In article <3D1D0802.C8EC970F@videotron.ca>,/ JF Mezei  <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote:  >Nick Maclaren wrote: D >> John Malmberg is correct.  Any X client (i.e. X application) with. >> access to your X Terminal can do anything.  > J >But the remote X client does have access to the file system of the systemO >displaying the window ?  When I do a FILE OPEN in the application, it gives me , >file system of the remote X client, right ? > L >Does the remote X client have the ability to somehow execute commands on my1 >system ? (eg: DELETE $DISK1:[000000...]*.*;* ) ?   - In both cases, generally not.  But see below.   @ >> Now, what does "anything" mean?  Well, it definitely includesD >> reading anything that you type into any window, whether reflectedC >> or not, and reading all button presses.  And reading all output.  > O >1- Would a remote X client be able to read information typed into windows that  >doesn't belong to it ?   & Sometimes, perhaps always.  See below.  N >You mention "reading all output". But the remote X client wouldn't be reading/ >the output, it would be generating it, right ?   ? So?  It can ask for the contents of any window on the X Server,  displayed or not.   A >> And (this is where my colleague reckoned there were loopholes) B >> putting input into any window on your screen, displayed or not,A >> and whether keyboard input or mouse operations.  Yes, I really $ >> DO mean hijacking another window. > M >So, a remote X client on a unix system would be able to pop open a window on O >my VMS machine that displays the time, and covertly then send keystrokes to my O >decterm window giving me a VMS prompt and extract the output from that decterm 	 >window ?   B No, but it would be able to do that with an EXISTING window.  Now,> this loophole has been 'closed' by most X clients by using theB option to ignore synthetic events.  But my colleague reckoned that? the test used is wrong, and you can forge events if you write X  Protocol directly.    C So, if you have a window open running a privileged application, and D I connect to your X Server, I could discover what you are doing with? that application and perhaps take it over.  Secure, that ain't.   F So do NOT allow ANYONE else to connect to your X Server.  Even runningE untrusted applications using the same server as one you are using for C administration is a bit risky.  And I mean X Server, not X Display;  using two displays won't help.  B The reason that this is not the cause of more hacks is that modernD hackers are such idiots, and are capable of only the most elementary@ attacks.  And X is foul, so few people understand it even at the mediocre level that I do.      Regards, Nick Maclaren,* University of Cambridge Computing Service,> New Museums Site, Pembroke Street, Cambridge CB2 3QH, England. Email:  nmm1@cam.ac.uk/ Tel.:  +44 1223 334761    Fax:  +44 1223 334679    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 29 Jun 2002 10:58:03 -0400 2 From: rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger)  Subject: Re: dec 3000-300LX moboK Message-ID: <rdeininger-2906021058030001@1cust147.tnt1.nashua.nh.da.uu.net>   1 In article <afbqka$1kr5$1@half.spin.it>, "Luca_B" # <balzano-spam-avoid-@iol.it> wrote:    >Hi all, > C >I have here a dec3000-300LX motherboard with processor d/board and ! >framebuffer but no power supply.  > K >anyone that has the same machine or a 300L (and a multimeter) who can read L >the voltages on the 12 pin (if I remember well) power connector and post me
 >a pinout?  H I'm not sure this is the connector you're interested in.  This is from a0 bit of documentation I found for a DEC 3000-300:  " Pin Description   Pin Description   1   +5V           11  System ok  2   +5V           12  RTN  3   +5V           13  RTN  4   +5V           14  RTN  5   +5V           15  RTN  6   +5V           16  RTN  7   +12V          17  RTN  8   -12V          18  RTN  9   POK           19  RTN  10  spkr+         20  spkr-   B There was no diagram for the connector, just this list of signals.   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 29 Jun 2002 17:32:40 +0200  From: Dirk Munk <munk@home.nl>* Subject: Delay in publication of VMS books$ Message-ID: <3D1DD318.90609@home.nl>  N Many of us were hoping to receive our copies of "OpenVMS with Apache, OSU and D WASD" and of the "OpenVMS System Management Guide" by now, but alas.  P Both books were scheduled for publication on June 15. However the first book is N scheduled now to be published on August 30, and the second book isn't even on C the web pages of the publisher yet (that is not the new edition !).   Q I just hope the books will be up to date when they are published (Apache 2.x and   VMS 7.3-1).    ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 29 Jun 2002 17:33:20 GMT L From: winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU ("Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr"). Subject: Re: Delay in publication of VMS books8 Message-ID: <00A102E0.DA2C1753@SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>  E In article <3D1DD318.90609@home.nl>, Dirk Munk <munk@home.nl> writes:   O >Many of us were hoping to receive our copies of "OpenVMS with Apache, OSU and  E >WASD" and of the "OpenVMS System Management Guide" by now, but alas.    > Q >Both books were scheduled for publication on June 15. However the first book is  O >scheduled now to be published on August 30, and the second book isn't even on  D >the web pages of the publisher yet (that is not the new edition !). >   K I can't speak to the "OpenVMS System Management Guide", but as to the other J one, the delay is all my fault.  That's the first book I've written, and II seriously underestimated the time and trouble it would take.  I returned  F corrected proofs to the relevant freelance Frame person in early June.  M >I just hope the books will be up to date when they are published (Apache 2.x  and  VMS 7.3-1).  L The book will have inevitably fallen somewhat behind.  There won't be a CSWSM based on Apache 2.x by the publication date, but WASD 8.0 (maybe 8.1) will be N out and the book is based on 7.2; OSU 3.9 and 3.10alpha are covered, but 3.10aO is out.  The book isn't particularly OS-version specific, but my tests were all  done on VMS 7.2-2.   Sorry to disappoint.   -- Alan     O =============================================================================== 0  Alan Winston --- WINSTON@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDUM  Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056 M  Physical mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 69, PO BOX 4349, STANFORD, CA  94309-0210 O ===============================================================================    ------------------------------   Date: 29 Jun 02 09:18:29 +0200) From: p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture) I Subject: Re: Deutsche Bank would like to outsource there IT to IBM or CSC ) Message-ID: <F5GSUcgaPUst@elias.decus.ch>   \ In article <3D1CC278.F8733CC8@videotron.ca>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> writes:   <snip> > L > Those RA82s were most certaintly built without any effort to save on metalN > shielding :-) Just wish they had used quieter fans. last week, I installed aK > RA82 fan in a refrigirator at cottage while I took the original fan to be K > replaced. I have also used the allen screws from RA82s on my bike for the  > racks/panniers etc.   5 Lends a whole new meaning to the word "recycling" :-)  __
 Paul Sture Switzerland    ------------------------------   Date: 29 Jun 02 09:26:24 +0200) From: p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture) I Subject: Re: Deutsche Bank would like to outsource there IT to IBM or CSC ) Message-ID: <qwrhb5tNh8yG@elias.decus.ch>   ` In article <afiffl$2sl2$1@info.cs.uofs.edu>, bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes:. > In article <3D1CB7F5.70B0A39F@videotron.ca>,2 >  JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> writes: > |> Rob Young wrote: ( > |> >         Not just RZ23 by the way. > |> >  Q > |> >         Sure... did you know they also make excellent refrigerator magnets U > |> >         as the kid's drawings get larger and unwieldy?  Excellent conversation S > |> >         topic is to have a friend come along and challenge them to lift (not R > |> >         slide) the magnet off the refrigerator.  Several pinched fingers in > |> >         the process.  > |>  P > |> I have dismantled a few drives, including 4 RA82s, and I don't recall seing > |> magnets in them.  > |>  O > |> (OK, the RA84 arm actuator is a hefty coil which will produce mosuc if you P > |> plug it into your stereo and pump up the volume) but I have not seen actualP > |> magnets in disk drives. Can anyone enlighten me on this, or is my lef being7 > |> pulled big time and I am too stupid to notice it ?  > F > I once stripped a big CDC drive (It was way to heavy to throw in theE > dumpster in one piece.)  I expect the magnet that stuck to the side E > of the dumpster when I threw it in will never be able to be removed C > again.   I know it was still there more than a month later.  The  I > dumpster was then relocated and I don't know where it might be now. :-)  >   I And boy, were those drives _heavy_. I once witnessed a couple being taken J up to the first floor the hard way (lift/elevator too small, certainly notM pwerful enough) by a couple of removal men, using straps over their shoulders M to lift the things. Those guys were built like gorillas and still cursed much 
 and often. __
 Paul Sture Switzerland    ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 29 Jun 2002 06:53:16 GMT * From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>- Subject: Re: Fearless IPF Prognostications... B Message-ID: <wPcT8.456829$%y.32230945@bin4.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>  < "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote in message! news:3D1D18A7.833B0647@fsi.net...t   ...   < > since Alpha remains the only production 64-bit CPU besides> > UltraSPARC and IBM's big iron, what does portability buy us?  I Without necessarily suggesting that they would be great alternate targets G for a VMS port, I suspect that 64-bit MIPS, PA-RISC, and (non-big-iron)cB POWER advocates might take exception to being ignored in the aboveE statement.  For that matter, Itanic itself technically qualifies as a F 'production 64-bit CPU', though there may not be anyone who would feel slighted by your omitting it.a  L PA-RISC, in fact, has as much future development ahead of it as Alpha does -H IIRC getting both a process-shrink and dual core on the (8800) chip nextK year, which should keep its performance respectable, plus at least one moresG version (the 8900 - if I ever heard what was planned for that one, I'veoK forgotten) after that.  And MIPS has a couple of spins left as well, thoughL perhaps less substantial ones.  J But realistically portability buys the possibility of jumping to Hammer ifL Itanic actually sinks (and if that does happen, expect Intel to have YamhillH ready to sell too), since unlike the other 64-bit options (whose future,K with the exception of US and POWER, is as limited as Alpha's is) Hammer andnJ Yamhill are not produced by a direct system competitor (though if VMS wereB to be sold to IBM or Sun that situation would change).  OTOH, it'sI questionable enough whether VMS will survive its first desperate platformXG jump, let alone a second:  best first to see whether its new owner williJ actually take meaningful steps to improve its health (and hence its market	 stamina).s   - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 29 Jun 2002 03:50:49 -0400a- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>f- Subject: Re: Fearless IPF Prognostications...i, Message-ID: <3D1D66D7.91EA6C34@videotron.ca>   Bill Todd wrote:L > But realistically portability buys the possibility of jumping to Hammer ifN > Itanic actually sinks (and if that does happen, expect Intel to have Yamhill > ready to sell too),   L Because Tandem needs lockstep, I am not sure that HP woudl decide to jump toD Hammer since Tandem would remain stranded and couldn't go to Hammer.  F Perhaps this is where Intel could do the one-upmanship thing by addingE lockstep to Yamhill, allowing Tandem to move to Yamhill, but not to aA lockstep-less Hammer.6  2 Then again, if Intel added lockstep, so could AMD.  K I think it is logical to expect HP to want to have allk its proprietary OSs12 running on the same chip. (HP-UX, VMS and Tandem).   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 29 Jun 2002 09:23:56 GMTl* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>- Subject: Re: Fearless IPF Prognostications...dB Message-ID: <M0fT8.457955$%y.32295426@bin4.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>  : "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message& news:3D1D66D7.91EA6C34@videotron.ca... > Bill Todd wrote:K > > But realistically portability buys the possibility of jumping to Hammer  ifH > > Itanic actually sinks (and if that does happen, expect Intel to have Yamhille > > ready to sell too),t >aK > Because Tandem needs lockstep, I am not sure that HP woudl decide to jumpr toF > Hammer since Tandem would remain stranded and couldn't go to Hammer.  J So what?  The discussion was what additional portability meant to VMS, notK to NSK (which because of its requirement for lock-step is far less portablewJ anyway).  If Itanic sinks, the choice will be whether to let VMS *and* NSKL sink with it or just let NSK sink (or continue to limp along on MIPS for theI indefinite future) and take VMS to the best platform available.  Sure, HP L may not like that choice.  Tough:  they (and Compaq) made their bed, and now have to lie in it.   - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 29 Jun 2002 14:06:15 +0200l" From: "Hans Vlems" <hvlems@iae.nl>- Subject: Re: Fearless IPF Prognostications...i5 Message-ID: <afk7bf$f4squ$1@ID-143435.news.dfncis.de>n  : Terry C. Shannon <terryshannon@attbi.com> wrote in message8 news:FJ6T8.183913$R61.63837@rwcrnsc52.ops.asp.att.net...H > Probability factor (er, likelihood) that VMS will boot on IPF in 1H02: 0.014 > Likelihood that VMS will boot on IPF in 2H02: 0.99E > Likelihood that SRI-supplied Alpha-->IPF VMS binary translator willh supporth > PL/1 apps: 0? > Likelihood that VMS will end up being more portable (to others architectures) > as a result of IPF port: 0.99. >./ Are we going to see VMS on IA32 after all then?>   ------------------------------    Date: 29 Jun 2002 07:11:22 -0700( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)- Subject: Re: Fearless IPF Prognostications...o= Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0206290611.3dd25cbf@posting.google.com>h  t "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote in message news:<M0fT8.457955$%y.32295426@bin4.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>...< > "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message( > news:3D1D66D7.91EA6C34@videotron.ca... > > Bill Todd wrote:M > > > But realistically portability buys the possibility of jumping to Hammer  >  if J > > > Itanic actually sinks (and if that does happen, expect Intel to have
 >  Yamhill > > > ready to sell too),  > >oM > > Because Tandem needs lockstep, I am not sure that HP woudl decide to jump  >  to H > > Hammer since Tandem would remain stranded and couldn't go to Hammer. > L > So what?  The discussion was what additional portability meant to VMS, notM > to NSK (which because of its requirement for lock-step is far less portable L > anyway).  If Itanic sinks, the choice will be whether to let VMS *and* NSKN > sink with it or just let NSK sink (or continue to limp along on MIPS for theK > indefinite future) and take VMS to the best platform available.  Sure, HP N > may not like that choice.  Tough:  they (and Compaq) made their bed, and now > have to lie in it. >  > - bill  ? you are not giving the Alpha team enough credit here as to whaty; they will roll out post McKinley ... and remember, EV8-9 isc still out there ...    ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 29 Jun 2002 14:31:39 GMTa1 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com>e- Subject: Re: Fearless IPF Prognostications... , Message-ID: <fxjT8.33666$Uu2.5809@sccrnsc03>  - "Hans Vlems" <hvlems@iae.nl> wrote in message / news:afk7bf$f4squ$1@ID-143435.news.dfncis.de...e >e< > Terry C. Shannon <terryshannon@attbi.com> wrote in message: > news:FJ6T8.183913$R61.63837@rwcrnsc52.ops.asp.att.net...J > > Probability factor (er, likelihood) that VMS will boot on IPF in 1H02: > 0.016 > > Likelihood that VMS will boot on IPF in 2H02: 0.99G > > Likelihood that SRI-supplied Alpha-->IPF VMS binary translator willi	 > supports > > PL/1 apps: 0A > > Likelihood that VMS will end up being more portable (to othern > architectures)! > > as a result of IPF port: 0.99u > >e1 > Are we going to see VMS on IA32 after all then?e  H Hardly, since it's a 64-bit operating environment. You can, however, run. VAX/VMS on IA32 via the Charon-VAX translator.   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 29 Jun 2002 15:51:21 GMTe1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>o- Subject: Re: Fearless IPF Prognostications...0' Message-ID: <3D1DDB87.F05C4F9F@fsi.net>l   "Terry C. Shannon" wrote:> > / > "Hans Vlems" <hvlems@iae.nl> wrote in message 1 > news:afk7bf$f4squ$1@ID-143435.news.dfncis.de...y > >o> > > Terry C. Shannon <terryshannon@attbi.com> wrote in message< > > news:FJ6T8.183913$R61.63837@rwcrnsc52.ops.asp.att.net...L > > > Probability factor (er, likelihood) that VMS will boot on IPF in 1H02: > > 0.018 > > > Likelihood that VMS will boot on IPF in 2H02: 0.99I > > > Likelihood that SRI-supplied Alpha-->IPF VMS binary translator willl > > supportn > > > PL/1 apps: 0C > > > Likelihood that VMS will end up being more portable (to othera > > architectures)# > > > as a result of IPF port: 0.99e > > > 3 > > Are we going to see VMS on IA32 after all then?  > J > Hardly, since it's a 64-bit operating environment. You can, however, run0 > VAX/VMS on IA32 via the Charon-VAX translator.  F One of my deepest desires was always to be a successful negotiator. AnD achievement I would consider a great triumph would be to negotiate aA deal with HPQ and (the folks who make Charon-VAX) to remarket thetD combination on present Proliant machines at competitive prices as anH alternative to Alpha migration, for those whose VAX applications are andA still will be needed but were never ported to Alpha and cannot behH VESTed. Of course, that still leaves the issue of VMS versions and Q-bus! hardware, to name but a couple...    -- c David J. Dachterao dba DJE Systemsi http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/o   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 29 Jun 2002 12:20:09 -0400a- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>t- Subject: Re: Fearless IPF Prognostications...l, Message-ID: <3D1DDE39.49D68B74@videotron.ca>   Bill Todd wrote:L > anyway).  If Itanic sinks, the choice will be whether to let VMS *and* NSK$ > sink with it or just let NSK sink   K During the merger pregnancy, remember that Carly had no problems mentioningeM that Tandem would survive, but went through great lengths to avoid mentioningdL VMS at all. Profits or not, it seems to me that Tandem is a sacred cow whileG VMS is rotten meat that should be disposed of in the long term. So wheneK choosing a replacement platform for IA64, I suspect that NSK,s requirements ! would have more weight than VMS'.    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 29 Jun 2002 13:21:10 +0200r) From: "Steven Thompson" <steven@omga.biz>n1 Subject: Re: Has SMTP RBL list worked for anyone? B Message-ID: <afk578$7ud$1@nsnmrro2-gest.nuria.telefonica-data.net>   Hi Nic  H Do you have a permanent conection with your ISP and thus a permanent IP?  ( You could try reversing the MX priority.B Give yourself a smaller number and therefore a higher MX priority.E Your ISP will still cache your mail but only when your SMTP server isl unavailable.I That way the RBL should work. Maybe worth a try, as the disruption to thea DNS is minimal.n   Steve'  ; "Nic Clews" <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1> escribi en el mensaje # news:3D1C3056.94A3B946@127.0.0.1...f > Lawrence Bleau wrote:  > >iA > > If you are running TCPIP V5.1 (AXP) and you are using the RBL J > > (realtime blockhole list) feature, have you ever seen evidence that it
 > > works? > D > I don't quite fit into the parameters above, however I'm using RBL	 > checks.  > G > HOWEVER its not working. The reason is, my ISP caches all the mail onrF > their servers, and by the time it arrives on my box, they are coming > from a valid (ISP) server. > H > (I have enquired about them using RBLs, but they choose not to at this > point) >lB > However, I trace just about as much spam as I can using (mainly)J > samspade.org and having downloaded the tool, most of the SPAM I get does# > not come from RBL listed domains.m > D > SPAM changes domains so often, and spammers discover yet more openG > relays, that keeping up with it is difficult. I estimate I would onlyA3 > filter less than 5% of my total spam using a RBL.  >e > http://samspade.org/ >t > http://samspade.org/ssw/ > G > Unfortunately its for a Windows environment, but a spammer is a lower2J > form of life than a crap operating system. It contains RBL checks, abuseH > address information where it exists, tracing, safe web browsing, a fewG > other oddments that make spam tracing a rewarding activity. I cut and I > paste the results to a VMS session which sends the offending message toD/ > where something can usually be done about it.t > I > In my view, this is better than simply mass rejecting the junk, withoutOJ > enforceable legislation this will be the only way to attack the problem. > F > Speaking personally, the biggest problem comes from China and Korea,@ > they just have NOT got a clue how to set up a proper computing; > environment, they are installing relays by the truckload.l >e > --A > Regards, Nic Clews a.k.a. Mr. CP Charges, CSC Computer SciencesM > nclews at csc dot com"   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 29 Jun 2002 13:24:12 +0200o) From: "Steven Thompson" <steven@omga.biz>m1 Subject: Re: Has SMTP RBL list worked for anyone?dB Message-ID: <afk5ct$93p$1@nsnmrro2-gest.nuria.telefonica-data.net>   Lawrence  I Yes, Thursday, I saw in one of the receive logs a confirmation of the RBL  mechanism... Unfortunately it's been purged.lK I'm going to edit the smtp startup to allow loads of receive logs to see ifp I can catch another one.K At the moment someone near San Jos is trying to get something by my serverl7 and the logs are full of this guys IP getting rejected.c   Steve-  = "Lawrence Bleau" <bleau@umtof.umd.edu> escribi en el mensajeo* news:afinqa$fge$2@grapevine.wam.umd.edu...L > In article <afii2p$a0n$1@nsnmrro2-gest.nuria.telefonica-data.net>, "Steven# Thompson" <steven@omga.biz> writes:O > >........l > >!< > >RBLs:          spews.relays.osirusoft.com, bl.spamcop.net > >! >yD > Steven, you gave a the above sites in response to Michael's posted request, so=J > I assume that you are using RBLs and they work for you.  Can you confirm this?-L > Have you received email from an RBL-blacklisted site and the log file says itL > was rejected?  Is there any positive indication that the RBL list you have is
 > working? >e > Lawrence Bleau > University of Maryland$ > Physics Dept., Space Physics Group > 301-405-6223 > bleau@umtof.umd.edur   ------------------------------  + Date: Sat, 29 Jun 2002 14:50:37 +0000 (UTC)y From: david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk1 Subject: RE: Has SMTP RBL list worked for anyone?t+ Message-ID: <afkhft$hi8$1@aquila.mdx.ac.uk>r  ^ In article <004001c21eb1$c6e33960$352810ac@petris.com>, "Art Beane" <beane@petris.com> writes:E >It's not an OpenVMS solution, but we're using Praetor on a dedicatedlF >server to filter SMTP mail and use relays.ordb.org for RBL with great
 >success.  >-C >A "praetor" (as in praetorian guard) is a defender of the emperor.l >. >u  @ Well if your willing to spend extra money then you could use MX H (or slightly more expensively PMDF) on VMS. Both of which have extensive support for RBL lists etcnM I haven't actually used MX but hear it is a good solution. PMDF is definitelyc a good solution.  
 David Webb VMS and Unix team leader CCSS Middlesex University   ------------------------------  + Date: Sat, 29 Jun 2002 15:07:31 +0000 (UTC)  From: david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.ukS Subject: Re: Moving Alpha system disks (Re: My conversation with Linus about VMS ..s+ Message-ID: <afkifj$hi8$2@aquila.mdx.ac.uk>t  [ In article <TIBwvOgUeHWh@rabbit>, sy18889@rabmbit.famrp.cosm (Bradford J. Hamilton) writes:>H >To put a practical cast on this issue, I offer a real-life example:	:-) >nL >Our shop consists of PCI-based Alphas, and older DEC7000's with a differentK >backplane (XMI bus).  The system disk from an XMI-based machine *could* be G >plunked into a PCI-based machine, but you would have to massage TCP/IP O >services, for instance, which treats PCI and XMI ethernet cards with differentc >names.> >gC >So, yes, you can move a system disk around, but depending upon thei1 >architecture, certain things need to be changed.i >i  F I don't think anyone has suggested that you don't need to do some workE after the move to tune the system, reconfigure network interfaces etceJ in order to get the system fully functioning. After moving the disk though$ you will be able to boot the system.O I'd probably do the first boot minimum startup in order to make various changeswK in the startup files eg make sure the startup isn't going to hang trying toe mount non-existent disks etc    
 David Webb VMS and Unix team leader CCSS Middlesex University   ------------------------------    Date: 28 Jun 2002 22:29:21 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>5 Subject: Re: My conversation with Linus about VMS ...n- Message-ID: <87sn37h3y6.fsf@prep.synonet.com>-  $ Alfred Falk <falk@arc.ab.ca> writes:   This is almost scary...r   > Hmmm.... Lemme see:@ >     	Monitor I (IBM 1620)  Is that what its calledo >     	KM-9  No- >     	OS/360 (nothing like proficient, ever)n No >     	TOPS-10$ Well, on the 6 originally, then a KA, >     	KRONOS (is that right?  CDC Cyber 70)
 >     	DOS-15  No0 >     	MTS (Michigan Terminal System) - UGGGGHH! No >     	Unix (V3, I think)b Can't remember the version...b! >     	RDOS (DG Nova and Eclipse)s >     	RSX-11M/ And all of the tribe. RDOS was after M I think.  >     	RSTS-11 slight >     	AOS (DG Eclipse)-
 >     	VMS" I saw 1.something, then it was 2.? >     	RT-11$ Is there anyone who has not used RT?! >     	AOS/VS (DG 32-bit Eclipse)i No >     	CP/Mu
 >     	MS-DOSU  >     	Windows 3.1 and its heirs* Sigh... A good start, then down the tubes.  ; I still consider that M-PLUS is the best of the lot. Modulo  16 bit, etc...   -- C< Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.l@                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------    Date: 29 Jun 2002 07:55:03 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)l Subject: Re: New VMS Marketing3 Message-ID: <wnz6QRr1FtG2@eisner.encompasserve.org>i  [ In article <3D1D1923.DEB05CAB@fsi.net>, "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> writes:i > "Terry C. Shannon" wrote:n  N >> FYI the first OpenVMS Immersion Course was booked to capacity less than two >> days after HPQ announced it.t > B > From what I read, that capacity was severely limited - circa. 25: > headcount. Should probably have been 5 to 10 times that.  @ I think you are unqualified to make that statement since you didA not design the course.  One cannot take a "workshop" style coursesC and turn it into a "lecture hall" style course on a marketing whim.2   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 29 Jun 2002 15:34:30 GMT:1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>  Subject: Re: New VMS Marketing' Message-ID: <3D1DD793.2BB9AABB@fsi.net>    Larry Kilgallen wrote: > ] > In article <3D1D1923.DEB05CAB@fsi.net>, "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> writes:a > > "Terry C. Shannon" wrote:) > P > >> FYI the first OpenVMS Immersion Course was booked to capacity less than two! > >> days after HPQ announced it.n > >nD > > From what I read, that capacity was severely limited - circa. 25< > > headcount. Should probably have been 5 to 10 times that. > B > I think you are unqualified to make that statement since you didC > not design the course.  One cannot take a "workshop" style course E > and turn it into a "lecture hall" style course on a marketing whim.s  G I was speaking to the response, not the course. You can always plan bigeH and then downsize. Upsizing once the wheels are in motion is rather moreF challenging. (Yes, I *HAVE* planned and executed gatherings of variousH sorts over the years, including educatuional experiences. I have already& learned from the "mistake" just made.)  B That the class filled so fast is a powerful indicator. Whether theG current HP/VMS clan is possessed of the wisdom to recognize and respondt! to that input remains to be seen.e   -- n David J. Dachteraa dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/r   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 29 Jun 2002 06:28:40 -0700.# From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> D Subject: PL/I apps on IPF (was RE: Fearless IPF Prognostications...)9 Message-ID: <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJICEFHFEAA.tom@kednos.com>    Terry,  @ I find it odd that people are stating that there will be no PL/IC on IPF, when we own the product, and you haven't asked us if we aree porting to IPF.d   TomM   >-----Original Message-----e7 >From: Terry C. Shannon [mailto:terryshannon@attbi.com]d$ >Sent: Friday, June 28, 2002 7:34 PM >To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com. >Subject: Re: Fearless IPF Prognostications... >  >2 >:= >"David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote in messageF" >news:3D1D18A7.833B0647@fsi.net... >> "Terry C. Shannon" wrote: >> >K >> > Probability factor (er, likelihood) that VMS will boot on IPF in 1H02:e >0.01F7 >> > Likelihood that VMS will boot on IPF in 2H02: 0.99bH >> > Likelihood that SRI-supplied Alpha-->IPF VMS binary translator will >support >> > PL/1 apps: 0oB >> > Likelihood that VMS will end up being more portable (to other >architectures)t" >> > as a result of IPF port: 0.99 >>I >> I tend to agree, Terry, but since the industry is dominated by IA32, I)J >> have to ask: since Alpha remains the only production 64-bit CPU besidesG >> UltraSPARC and IBM's big iron, what does portability buy us? Are you:C >> thinking we might see VMS in an MVS virtual machine? ...on a Sunl >> machine? ...other?s >o@ >I am unaware of any particular target beyond IPF, but POWERx is
 >conceivable.b >t" >Status of the VMS on IPF port is: >sL >No boot yet (I was a bit optimistic with date I submitted in the HPQ "Guess >The Boot Date" contest) >t >OS Loader up and runningD >1 >SMP - secondary CPU running >T1 >XDELTA and breakpoint ready for debugging on IPFs >eI >Memory management will be moving into IPF boot environment for debuggingd >Real Soon Now >nA >Much of the unchanged (e.g. VMS V7.3 on Alpha) code is now beingo >compiled on >IPF >eJ >Work is being done on Itanium I (hp i2000 workstation, ProLiant DL590/64)K >boxes, Itanium and McKinley developers platforms. HP McKinley workstations?A >should be added to the mix right after all and sundry in ZKOland  >return from >their "holiday week." >tA >Looks to me as if Alpha to IPF will be easier for customers thant >was the VAXL >to Alpha transition. No code freezes, so Alpha and IPF VMS releases will be >built from the same source. >e >  >e >i >---' >Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.a; >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). A >Version: 6.0.372 / Virus Database: 207 - Release Date: 6/20/2002  >l ---o& Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.: Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).@ Version: 6.0.372 / Virus Database: 207 - Release Date: 6/20/2002   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 29 Jun 2002 14:33:29 GMTh1 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com>lH Subject: Re: PL/I apps on IPF (was RE: Fearless IPF Prognostications...). Message-ID: <ZyjT8.358485$cQ3.23194@sccrnsc01>  . "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> wrote in message3 news:CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJICEFHFEAA.tom@kednos.com...r > Terry, >eB > I find it odd that people are stating that there will be no PL/IE > on IPF, when we own the product, and you haven't asked us if we are  > porting to IPF.d >a > Tomi  E HPQ does not own the run time libraries, hence they claim the *binaryFG translator* will be unable to support apps written in PL/1. The commentd. was restricted to the binary translation tool.   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 29 Jun 2002 10:54:19 -0400g2 From: rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger)H Subject: Re: PL/I apps on IPF (was RE: Fearless IPF Prognostications...)K Message-ID: <rdeininger-2906021054190001@1cust147.tnt1.nashua.nh.da.uu.net>a  A In article <ZyjT8.358485$cQ3.23194@sccrnsc01>, "Terry C. Shannon". <terryshannon@attbi.com> wrote:a  / >"Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> wrote in message84 >news:CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJICEFHFEAA.tom@kednos.com...	 >> Terry,l >>C >> I find it odd that people are stating that there will be no PL/IeF >> on IPF, when we own the product, and you haven't asked us if we are >> porting to IPF. >> >> Tom >1F >HPQ does not own the run time libraries, hence they claim the *binaryH >translator* will be unable to support apps written in PL/1. The comment/ >was restricted to the binary translation tool.i  H If HP and Kednos want to remedy this gap in PL/I functionality, they can; come up with an agreement to make the RTL available on IPF.u   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 29 Jun 2002 07:51:29 -0700I# From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com>iH Subject: RE: PL/I apps on IPF (was RE: Fearless IPF Prognostications...)9 Message-ID: <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIEEFJFEAA.tom@kednos.com>I  F Of course, a binary translator, doesn't need to know what the originalD source languqage was.  Making the PL/I runtime avaialble on IPF is aF piece of cake, since it is all C code, and that is the first thing we % will provide, both for VMS and Tru64.t    I hope that addresses the issue.   >-----Original Message-----n7 >From: Terry C. Shannon [mailto:terryshannon@attbi.com]s& >Sent: Saturday, June 29, 2002 7:33 AM >To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.ComI >Subject: Re: PL/I apps on IPF (was RE: Fearless IPF Prognostications...)d >b >  >d/ >"Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> wrote in messageD4 >news:CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJICEFHFEAA.tom@kednos.com...	 >> Terry,A >>C >> I find it odd that people are stating that there will be no PL/I-F >> on IPF, when we own the product, and you haven't asked us if we are >> porting to IPF. >> >> Tom >.F >HPQ does not own the run time libraries, hence they claim the *binaryH >translator* will be unable to support apps written in PL/1. The comment/ >was restricted to the binary translation tool.K >  >k >t >---' >Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. ; >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).hA >Version: 6.0.372 / Virus Database: 207 - Release Date: 6/20/2002n >n --- & Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.: Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).@ Version: 6.0.372 / Virus Database: 207 - Release Date: 6/20/2002   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 29 Jun 2002 07:56:38 -0700m# From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com>-H Subject: RE: PL/I apps on IPF (was RE: Fearless IPF Prognostications...)9 Message-ID: <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIMEFJFEAA.tom@kednos.com>i   >-----Original Message------: >From: Robert Deininger [mailto:rdeininger@mindspring.com]& >Sent: Saturday, June 29, 2002 7:54 AM >To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.ComI >Subject: Re: PL/I apps on IPF (was RE: Fearless IPF Prognostications...)  >m >eB >In article <ZyjT8.358485$cQ3.23194@sccrnsc01>, "Terry C. Shannon"  ><terryshannon@attbi.com> wrote: > 0 >>"Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> wrote in message5 >>news:CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJICEFHFEAA.tom@kednos.com... 
 >>> Terry, >>>tD >>> I find it odd that people are stating that there will be no PL/IG >>> on IPF, when we own the product, and you haven't asked us if we are  >>> porting to IPF.P >>>. >>> Tomn >>G >>HPQ does not own the run time libraries, hence they claim the *binaryrI >>translator* will be unable to support apps written in PL/1. The commentt0 >>was restricted to the binary translation tool. >OI >If HP and Kednos want to remedy this gap in PL/I functionality, they cani< >come up with an agreement to make the RTL available on IPF.  L As I said in my previous posting responding to Terry, the RTL will be there.I It may not ship as part of the OS, but you can certainly download it from $ our (HG)ftp site  (plug for Hunter!)   >s >---' >Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.f; >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). A >Version: 6.0.372 / Virus Database: 207 - Release Date: 6/20/2002p >  ---a& Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.: Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).@ Version: 6.0.372 / Virus Database: 207 - Release Date: 6/20/2002   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 29 Jun 2002 11:18:11 -0400a2 From: rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger)H Subject: Re: PL/I apps on IPF (was RE: Fearless IPF Prognostications...)K Message-ID: <rdeininger-2906021118110001@1cust147.tnt1.nashua.nh.da.uu.net>c  F In article <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIMEFJFEAA.tom@kednos.com>, "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> wrote:g    J >>If HP and Kednos want to remedy this gap in PL/I functionality, they can= >>come up with an agreement to make the RTL available on IPF.  >nM >As I said in my previous posting responding to Terry, the RTL will be there.pJ >It may not ship as part of the OS, but you can certainly download it from% >our (HG)ftp site  (plug for Hunter!)   J If you want it to ship with VMS (like all the other RTLs), you should workH with HP to come up with a license agreement that eases the terror in the legal department.s   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 29 Jun 2002 08:17:31 -07004# From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com>sH Subject: RE: PL/I apps on IPF (was RE: Fearless IPF Prognostications...)9 Message-ID: <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIAEFLFEAA.tom@kednos.com>e   >-----Original Message-----,: >From: Robert Deininger [mailto:rdeininger@mindspring.com]& >Sent: Saturday, June 29, 2002 8:18 AM >To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.ComI >Subject: Re: PL/I apps on IPF (was RE: Fearless IPF Prognostications...)t >  >.G >In article <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIMEFJFEAA.tom@kednos.com>, "Tom Linden"r ><tom@kednos.com> wrote: >f >iK >>>If HP and Kednos want to remedy this gap in PL/I functionality, they cand> >>>come up with an agreement to make the RTL available on IPF. >>@ >>As I said in my previous posting responding to Terry, the RTL  >will be there.hK >>It may not ship as part of the OS, but you can certainly download it fromw& >>our (HG)ftp site  (plug for Hunter!) >!K >If you want it to ship with VMS (like all the other RTLs), you should workeI >with HP to come up with a license agreement that eases the terror in they >legal department.  C In HPQ's legal department?  Why, if they download it from our site?  >s >---' >Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.d; >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).rA >Version: 6.0.372 / Virus Database: 207 - Release Date: 6/20/2002s >o --- & Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.: Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).@ Version: 6.0.372 / Virus Database: 207 - Release Date: 6/20/2002   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 29 Jun 2002 04:00:50 -0400a- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>8 Subject: Segmented keysa, Message-ID: <3D1D6930.DF8CFDE0@videotron.ca>  N If I need to do a keyed access to a file whose key is segmented, how do I fill the RAB  key_buffer ?.  , The grey manuals don't seem to mention this.  J Do I supply a single buffer made up of a concatenated string that containsN full length key values in the order of the key definition ? (seg0, seg1 etc).   @ Suppose I have a segmented key that is CITY[30] and Province[2].  D It is possible for me to supply a CITY value that is shorter than 30
 chartacters ?t  N With a non-segmented key, one can supply a key that is shorter than the file'sK key and you get the first record that matches. But with a segmented key, is  that functionality lost ?@   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 29 Jun 2002 09:36:24 GMTt* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> Subject: Re: Segmented keystB Message-ID: <rcfT8.444745$Gs.32224404@bin5.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>  : "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message& news:3D1D6930.DF8CFDE0@videotron.ca...K > If I need to do a keyed access to a file whose key is segmented, how do Ie fill > the RAB  key_buffer ?e >s. > The grey manuals don't seem to mention this.  I Because they don't need to.  A key is a key is a key.  Segmenting it justr7 scatters its string into multiple fields in the record.r   >tL > Do I supply a single buffer made up of a concatenated string that containsI > full length key values in the order of the key definition ? (seg0, seg1  etc).'  H Yes, except that you don't need to supply a full-length key if you don't want to.   >eB > Suppose I have a segmented key that is CITY[30] and Province[2]. >mF > It is possible for me to supply a CITY value that is shorter than 30 > chartacters ?'  H I assume you mean in KBF:  you always have to supply the full key in theI record (i.e., the record, even if variable-length, must be long enough togE contain all defined key segments - at least that was true in RMS-11).e  I The KBF key is just a string.  You can supply as much or as little as you8D want.  If you supply less than 32 characters in this case, you'll beG ignoring part or all of the Province information:  if that's a problem,s- always pad the City portion to 30 characters.f   >rI > With a non-segmented key, one can supply a key that is shorter than the  file'sJ > key and you get the first record that matches. But with a segmented key, is > that functionality lost ?   J No.  In the example you gave, if you wanted to make use of this option youK might want to specify the province as the first segment and the city as theyH second (unless you preferred to group cities with the same name togetherB regardless of province and perform partial-key searches that way).   - bill   ------------------------------    Date: 28 Jun 2002 22:46:57 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>+ Subject: Re: Sun benchmarketeering campaignh- Message-ID: <87ofdvh34u.fsf@prep.synonet.com>l  W Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <andrew_nospam.harrison_remove_this@sun#.com> writes:s  A > Is this against the rules of SPEC, no, they were drafted beforetA > this kind of configuration was possible on micorprocessor based 
 > systems.   E > But it means that it is now virtually impossible to use SPECint andlF > SPECfp as a usefully measure ot even raw CPU int and fp performance.   A Look at the Spec rules again Andrew. There is a seperate categoryu> for `depopulated' or partial systems. However, IBM ships a 1/2B minded config *as standard*, so it is not a partial system. A 8x00B could be configured with 1 CPU per board, but it is NOT a standard config.   2 Don't think you have to run HalfOS on it though ;0   -- D< Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.t@                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 29 Jun 2002 11:45:29 +0200l( From: Kees Bekema <cab4.11@inter.nl.net>. Subject: Re: TCP transfer speed using UCX V4.28 Message-ID: <lnuqhu01s1ud07bqsmpcb8up620t8eulfi@4ax.com>  B On Fri, 28 Jun 2002 23:56:40 GMT, lbohan@dbc..spamless..com wrote:  G >On Fri, 28 Jun 2002 22:39:54 +0200, Kees Bekema <cab4.11@inter.nl.net>p >wrote:t > F >>The present window size is 4096 bytes, which allows for 3 IP packets= >>before waiting for an ACK from the remote receiver station.@C >>What are the command lines, if any, to have VMS / UCX show me theT >>window size? >>E >>How can I optimize the image transfer via DICOM to, for example, myaH >>laptop that is connected to the NIC of the host via a crossed-link UTP* >>cable. The laptop also runs 100 Mbps FD. >c4 >I don't think there's a way to set (most) of these = >on a per session basis.   Perhaps, in V5.3, but perhaps not.t >a7 >I am fairly sure (most of) the following TCP protocol t# >qualifiers were present in V4.2;  n. >(Use $ UCX Set protocol /blah/blah   instead) >a >t@ >Near/about this page (I searched the Compaq TCP/IP Services for@ >OpenVMS Management Command Reference, under Q, for for "quota") > M >http://www.openvms.compaq.com:8000/tcpip51/6527/6527pro_008.html#index_x_509e >g> > TCPIP>  SET PROTOCOL TCP /QUOTA=(SEND:250000,RECEIVE:250000) >c  2 Thank you for your response, that looks promising.D In the meantime I have done some more searching myself and found the following URL:  R http://www.compaq.com/support/asktima/communications/009D3461-42C5BBE0-1C0096.html  1 This article seems to deal with UCX version V4.2.tD Although I am a little familiar with VMS and UCX, I don't understandD everything stated in this article (I am a service engineer for MRI).& What to do with Small and Large MBUFs?4 And what to do with MIN and MAX small / large MBUFs?  @ Would the following two command lines be enough for changing the< default TCP window size from 4096 to, let's say 64000 bytes?  >      $ UCX SET PROTOCOL TCP /QUOTA=(SEND=64000, RECEIVE=64000)C      $ UCX SET CONFIGURATION TCP /QUOTA=(SEND=64000, RECEIVE=64000)   F Is the top command line valid for the volatile database and the bottom one for the permanent database?iF If all this is true, can I also use larger buffers than in the exampleF above? I read somewhere that only 16 bits are available for the windowC size in the header of an IP packet; that would allow then for 655368B bytes.  For larger buffers I would have to use some window scaling? parameter? I don't know if that is supported by UVC V4.2 ECO 3.   B Is there any impact of this change in the TCP window size on other running processes?D If, for some reason, the above change in the TCP window size doesn'tE work as expected or other problems appear, can I reverse the "impact"o1 of the two command lines with just the following:t  <      $ UCX SET PROTOCOL TCP /QUOTA=(SEND=4096, RECEIVE=4096)A      $ UCX SET CONFIGURATION TCP /QUOTA=(SEND=4096, RECEIVE=4096)y  F I am sorry for so many questions, but it would certainly help me a lot+ in making some of my customers happy again.e   Thanx in advance Kees Bekemam   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 29 Jun 2002 12:06:54 +0200i( From: Kees Bekema <cab4.11@inter.nl.net>. Subject: Re: TCP transfer speed using UCX V4.28 Message-ID: <q51rhust7tgp0ci8eu65gqrjhdv8epf65v@4ax.com>  3 On Fri, 28 Jun 2002 22:24:42 GMT, "Andy Bustamante" # <a_c_bustamante@bigfoot.com> wrote:S  L >As I understand this, the client provides the window size to the host.  YouA >should be looking at the IP config on the client to change this.  > D >You should also consider upgrading to TCPIP 5.x.  When we moved ourK >customers to 5.0a from 4.x we cut download time of  "large" image files byI@ >25% - 35 %.  Good payback for a simple layered product upgrade.     Thank you for your response.B Upgrading to UVC V5.x is out of the question, for various reasons.7 The host runs UCX V4.2 eco 3 and remains on that level.a  E I have seen network captures (Ethereal) of an image transfer from thesB VMS host to a remote receive station. I can see then that the hostD transfers with a TCP window size of 4096 bytes. The remote receivingE station shows all the time a different TCP window size: always larger B than the one from the sending host. I also see the size of the TCPB window on the receiving station increase all the time, but my hostA stays at the same 4096 bytes. So, if I manage to increase the TCP/E window size on my host, you think that my host will also use a largert TCP window size?   Thanx in advance.- Kees Bekemae   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 29 Jun 2002 14:03:37 +0200t" From: "Hans Vlems" <hvlems@iae.nl>. Subject: Re: TCP transfer speed using UCX V4.25 Message-ID: <afk76f$f2ood$1@ID-143435.news.dfncis.de>L  = Andy Bustamante <a_c_bustamante@bigfoot.com> wrote in messageJ: news:Km5T8.371$uT4.133@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net...H > As I understand this, the client provides the window size to the host. YourB > should be looking at the IP config on the client to change this. >oE > You should also consider upgrading to TCPIP 5.x.  When we moved ournL > customers to 5.0a from 4.x we cut download time of  "large" image files byA > 25% - 35 %.  Good payback for a simple layered product upgrade.- >- >- > -- >  > Andy Bustamante0* > remove the ascii-95's to reply by e-mail   Andy  L this is very likely a post from an engineer who works for Medical Systems (a Philips company).gI He has no control over the o/s and layered products versions installed onn the Alpha. The systemcK will be stuck with those versions for ever because changing means a lengthy  test procedure thatd1 is just too expensive for that kind of equipment.NH It would be much appreciated if you help him with the original question,  given the tools that he now has.   Hans   ------------------------------    Date: 28 Jun 2002 23:15:17 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com> Subject: Re: TCP/IPe- Message-ID: <87elerh1tm.fsf@prep.synonet.com>s  - "Christian C Ekstam" <md0@berusad.nu> writes:P  B > Thank you very much for your post, do you have any URL to a pageE > that describes the basics of running a VMS system? Something in then > style of "VMS for dummies" =)k  h > Cinda new to this.   Keyboard://help-  : After a quick scan, loo at the help for the librarian, and? extract the entire help into a text file. Then start reading :) & It is also very usefull for searching.  > Go and get the WASD web server and use Connan the Librarian to find a reference stuff.l  - Oh, and put in bit letters "This is NOT Unix"r   -- u< Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.t@                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 29 Jun 2002 06:00:55 GMTL( From: Alder <PGDEHMKOKIMD@spammotel.com>1 Subject: Re: TELNET service startup file missing?d, Message-ID: <3D1D4D16.5030409@spammotel.com>   JF Mezei wrote:mP > It is normal that there is no telnet srartup file in sys$manager. Telnet isn'tF > a "normal" service, it is closer to a fancy terminal driver I think. > ! > You can enable/disable it with:  >  >  > $TCPIP DISABLE SERVICE TELNET  >  > or:i > $TCPIP > TCPIP> HELP ENABLE   > TCPIP> HELP DISABLEa  
 Thanks JF,  E I was just going on the TCPIP docs which said the TELNET_STARTUP.COM t file was "supplied".   Cheers,c Aldera   ------------------------------   Date: 29 Jun 02 09:59:19 +0200) From: p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture) 1 Subject: Re: TELNET service startup file missing? ) Message-ID: <MeT4ORY2KrHa@elias.decus.ch>.  W In article <3D1D31B5.6030605@spammotel.com>, Alder <PGDEHMKOKIMD@spammotel.com> writes:bI > Once more I appeal to the patient and generous sorts that inhabit this eG > NG to help out this Windozed newbie.  I am running VMS 7.2 Alpha and  K > have been toying with the Telnet service on TCPIP Services 5(?).  I want sG > to start and stop the service without using TCPIP$Config to stop and MK > start the entire suite of net services, but the TCPIP$TELNET_STARTUP.COM nH > file appears to be missing from the SYS$MANAGER directory where it is @ > apparently supposed to have been installed.  It's complement, : > TCPIP$TELNET_SHUTDOWN.COM is there, but not the STARTUP. > E > Did I delete this file?  Or was it perhaps never installed?  Can I e& > restore it without too much trouble? > A What version of TCP/IP ? To get that issue the following command:d   $ TCPIP SHOW VER  K I have TCP/IP V5.1 - ECO 3 here and the date of TCPIP$TELNET_STARTUP.COM isd 24-SEP-2001. __
 Paul Sture Switzerlandn   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 29 Jun 2002 08:06:06 GMT,( From: Alder <PGDEHMKOKIMD@spammotel.com>1 Subject: Re: TELNET service startup file missing? , Message-ID: <3D1D6A6D.5040805@spammotel.com>   Paul Sture wrote: Y > In article <3D1D31B5.6030605@spammotel.com>, Alder <PGDEHMKOKIMD@spammotel.com> writes:n > I >>Once more I appeal to the patient and generous sorts that inhabit this gG >>NG to help out this Windozed newbie.  I am running VMS 7.2 Alpha and tK >>have been toying with the Telnet service on TCPIP Services 5(?).  I want uG >>to start and stop the service without using TCPIP$Config to stop and  K >>start the entire suite of net services, but the TCPIP$TELNET_STARTUP.COM aH >>file appears to be missing from the SYS$MANAGER directory where it is @ >>apparently supposed to have been installed.  It's complement, : >>TCPIP$TELNET_SHUTDOWN.COM is there, but not the STARTUP. >>E >>Did I delete this file?  Or was it perhaps never installed?  Can I 1& >>restore it without too much trouble? >> > C > What version of TCP/IP ? To get that issue the following command:P >  > $ TCPIP SHOW VER > M > I have TCP/IP V5.1 - ECO 3 here and the date of TCPIP$TELNET_STARTUP.COM isa > 24-SEP-2001. > __ > Paul Sture
 > Switzerland>   $ TCPIP SHOW VER  9    DIGITAL TCP/IP Services for OpenVMS Alpha Version V5.0h4    on a AlphaServer 1000A 4/266 running OpenVMS V7.2   Thanks, Paul   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 29 Jun 2002 13:13:24 +0200p) From: "Steven Thompson" <steven@omga.biz>I1 Subject: Re: TELNET service startup file missing?iB Message-ID: <afk4om$4s0$1@nsnmrro2-gest.nuria.telefonica-data.net>   Hi Alder  1 In short there isn't one. You haven't deleted it. K I believe Telnet gets started up with the "INET" startup, much like it doese in Unix.   Steves        ; "Alder" <PGDEHMKOKIMD@spammotel.com> escribi en el mensaje & news:3D1D31B5.6030605@spammotel.com...H > Once more I appeal to the patient and generous sorts that inhabit thisF > NG to help out this Windozed newbie.  I am running VMS 7.2 Alpha andJ > have been toying with the Telnet service on TCPIP Services 5(?).  I wantF > to start and stop the service without using TCPIP$Config to stop andJ > start the entire suite of net services, but the TCPIP$TELNET_STARTUP.COMG > file appears to be missing from the SYS$MANAGER directory where it is"? > apparently supposed to have been installed.  It's complement,o: > TCPIP$TELNET_SHUTDOWN.COM is there, but not the STARTUP. >cD > Did I delete this file?  Or was it perhaps never installed?  Can I& > restore it without too much trouble? >T > Many thanks, as always.e >h > Aldery >t   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 29 Jun 2002 15:56:42 GMTH1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> 1 Subject: Re: TELNET service startup file missing?u' Message-ID: <3D1DDCC8.56785F25@fsi.net>n   Alder wrote: > H > Once more I appeal to the patient and generous sorts that inhabit thisF > NG to help out this Windozed newbie.  I am running VMS 7.2 Alpha andJ > have been toying with the Telnet service on TCPIP Services 5(?).  I wantF > to start and stop the service without using TCPIP$Config to stop andJ > start the entire suite of net services, but the TCPIP$TELNET_STARTUP.COMG > file appears to be missing from the SYS$MANAGER directory where it is2? > apparently supposed to have been installed.  It's complement, : > TCPIP$TELNET_SHUTDOWN.COM is there, but not the STARTUP. > D > Did I delete this file?  Or was it perhaps never installed?  Can I& > restore it without too much trouble?  D I don't have UCX here that I can look at, but in general, "shutdown"E proc.'s are found in the SYS$MANAGER path while "startup" proc.'s areo  found via the SYS$STARTUP path.   H Note, however, that SYS$STARTUP is a search list and that SYS$MANAGER is the second element:    DJAS01::DDACHTERA$ versp' Alpha V7.1-2   (AlphaStation 200 4/233)0% DJAS01::DDACHTERA$ sh log sys$startuprA    "SYS$STARTUP" = "SYS$SYSROOT:[SYS$STARTUP]" (LNM$SYSTEM_TABLE)          = "SYS$MANAGER"y< 1  "SYS$MANAGER" = "SYS$SYSROOT:[SYSMGR]" (LNM$SYSTEM_TABLE)  F So, "shutdown" proc.'s can be found via SYS$STARTUP, even if they live in SYS$MANAGER.l   --   David J. Dachtera- dba DJE Systemsa http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/d   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 29 Jun 2002 12:36:12 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>t1 Subject: Re: TELNET service startup file missing?., Message-ID: <3D1DE1FB.A4681D4C@videotron.ca>   "David J. Dachtera" wrote:F > I don't have UCX here that I can look at, but in general, "shutdown"G > proc.'s are found in the SYS$MANAGER path while "startup" proc.'s areS! > found via the SYS$STARTUP path.r  I VAX-VMS 7.2 and TCPIP 5.0 (hobbyist stuff) does not have a telnet startup A procedure in sys$startup I think I recall noticing it because theaH documentation does mention its existence. But it works fine without one.   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 29 Jun 2002 06:07:57 GMT.# From: "Invader Zim" <unix@dev.null>k! Subject: Re: Worldcom MCI and VMS.> Message-ID: <Z8cT8.187098$R61.66233@rwcrnsc52.ops.asp.att.net>  ! I worked at MCI up until May '97.s( A good friend of mine still works there.H Since I left the "VMS guys" have quaddrupled the TPS of the VMS systems.K IMHO the VMS systems are responsible for the main revenue generation in thet company.K It was a shame to see the profits spent on *NIX projects - especially thosei& that collasped under their own weight.L The *NIX mantra was *NIX is cheaper... *NIX is cheaper... of course the *NIX projects seemed to) have more problems than the VMS projects.t  @ I saw some of the "attempts" of the *NIX wizards to build a *NIX# infrastructure. It wasn't pretty... G British Telecom (BT) wanted to merge with MCI until WorldCOM got in then picture. BT was responsibleaI for much of the *NIX virus introduction. One *NIX experiment on BT's partt started out multi-threaded. L Sometime later a rumor was heard that BT had forbidden any *NIX code to ever be multi-threaded due to theK sad outcome of the project they were working on. One system that interfaceds with my system was aG VMS-based system until some Einstein wanted to replace it with a Tandem8 system with *NIX. Tandem madepG good stuff but it couldn't handle the data being blasted to it from theD system I worked on.p  D I can't disclose any MCI intellectual property here - obviously. The- "VMS-guys" there are first rate!!! The tricks K they have used to accomplish what they have would make a good volume II fori the "hitchhikers guide to VMS".c  J I wonder with the news reports if WorldCOM IT architecture is a moot point  now? I hope they turn it around.K It's hard to find a company that uses VMS - at least out here in brain dead # Colorado where *NIX virus is firmlye entrenched.r  	 ClaudeVMSp  / The above comments and opinions are not my own.20 They all belong to Rush Limbaugh - so sue him!!! I'm just a mind numbed robot!!!i        : "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message& news:3D1AA107.5F954BB8@videotron.ca...C > Some years ago, there was a prominent and knowledgeable poster toc comp.os.vms I > who worked for MCI and contrary to many, felt very confident about VMS, B > especially at his shop where attempts to replace VMS had failed. >tL > Since then, MCI was purchased by the .COM Worldcom which has made the news in > recent days. >-L > Does anyone know whether MCI still has much VMS ? Has MCI's infrastructure5 > spread to other parts of Worldcome or the reverse ?    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 29 Jun 2002 00:54:40 -0600o% From: Dan O'Reilly <dano@process.com> ! Subject: Re: Worldcom MCI and VMS B Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020629004538.01b2e718@raptor.psccos.com>  ) At 12:07 AM 6/29/2002, Invader Zim wrote: " >I worked at MCI up until May '97.   I worked there until Nov '98.   ) >A good friend of mine still works there.tI >Since I left the "VMS guys" have quaddrupled the TPS of the VMS systems.zL >IMHO the VMS systems are responsible for the main revenue generation in the	 >company.t  G One VMS project I was on was a HUGE hi-performance database system (oneeI of the first terabyte VMSclusters, at the time of its introduction it wassK the largest Alpha cluster in the world).  We paid $16m for the cluster, and E it was directly responsible for something like $500m/year in retainedrL revenue.  That's ONE system!  Heck, I even ended up with 4 patents from thatF database system <grin>.  The thing I most remember about that was someE Alpha and VMS guys at DEC shaking their heads when we showed them ourh9 performance figures.  They didn't think it could be done!h  L >It was a shame to see the profits spent on *NIX projects - especially those' >that collasped under their own weight.t  K Yep!  There are still LOTS of VMS systems that just plain can't be replaceddN by UNIX systems, even though there have been attempts to do so for (literally)H 10 years or more in some cases.  The UNIX systems just can't do the job!  M >The *NIX mantra was *NIX is cheaper... *NIX is cheaper... of course the *NIXd >projects seemed ton* >have more problems than the VMS projects. >.A >I saw some of the "attempts" of the *NIX wizards to build a *NIXn$ >infrastructure. It wasn't pretty...H >British Telecom (BT) wanted to merge with MCI until WorldCOM got in the	 >picture.m  I Not true at all.  BT's shareholders voted the merger down because of some6G bad financial forecasts by MCI (I was on the team doing some stuff with,F BT/MCI).  BT (the guys I worked with) really wanted to merge with MCI,' and it would have been a GREAT company.   E >I can't disclose any MCI intellectual property here - obviously. Thee. >"VMS-guys" there are first rate!!! The tricksL >they have used to accomplish what they have would make a good volume II for  >the "hitchhikers guide to VMS".   They were all of that!   ------I +-------------------------------+---------------------------------------+ I | Dan O'Reilly                  |                                       |nI | Principal Engineer            |  "Why should I care about posterity?  |PI | Process Software              |   What's posterity ever done for me?" |rI | http://www.process.com        |                    -- Groucho Marx    | I +-------------------------------+---------------------------------------+N   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 29 Jun 2002 03:46:18 -0400q- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> ! Subject: Re: Worldcom MCI and VMSy, Message-ID: <3D1D65C9.577AC18E@videotron.ca>   Invader Zim wrote:L > I wonder with the news reports if WorldCOM IT architecture is a moot point" > now? I hope they turn it around.  M Couldn't a bankrupt Worldcom be able to spin off MCI as a separate profitableo< entity and use the proceeds to pay back some of its debts ?     L Wasn't Worldcom much smaller than MCI when it acquired it ? Has MCI remainedN relatively intact or was its operations and infrastructure merged with all the( other companies that Worldcom acquired ?   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 29 Jun 2002 03:54:05 -0400o- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>l! Subject: Re: Worldcom MCI and VMSf, Message-ID: <3D1D679B.2B4A55F5@videotron.ca>   Dan O'Reilly wrote:.M > Yep!  There are still LOTS of VMS systems that just plain can't be replacedrP > by UNIX systems, even though there have been attempts to do so for (literally)J > 10 years or more in some cases.  The UNIX systems just can't do the job!    K From a technical point of view, what sort of aspects would give VMS such anh advantage over a UNIX system ?  K The way it was described, high perforance was the key factor. Isn't  UNIX ah better performer than VMS ?e  M Or was it the reliability/clustering features that made it possible to handleoC the load where a Unix system couldn't be scalable enough to do it ?/   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 29 Jun 2002 07:44:36 -0600C% From: Dan O'Reilly <dano@process.com>e! Subject: Re: Worldcom MCI and VMS-B Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020629073914.01b5d6a8@raptor.psccos.com>  & At 01:54 AM 6/29/2002, JF Mezei wrote: >Dan O'Reilly wrote:O > > Yep!  There are still LOTS of VMS systems that just plain can't be replacedcG > > by UNIX systems, even though there have been attempts to do so for a
 > (literally)tL > > 10 years or more in some cases.  The UNIX systems just can't do the job! >h >.M > From a technical point of view, what sort of aspects would give VMS such an  >advantage over a UNIX system ?i >tL >The way it was described, high perforance was the key factor. Isn't  UNIX a >better performer than VMS ? > N >Or was it the reliability/clustering features that made it possible to handleD >the load where a Unix system couldn't be scalable enough to do it ?  H It's both, actually.  I won't go into technical details here, but from aG performance standpoint, there are some features of VMS that UNIX simplydJ can't duplicate, and that these systems exploit to their fullest.  SufficeF it to say, I'll bet you've never seen a non-paged pool that's multiple gigabytes in size...  I  From a reliability standpoint, when WorldCom came in, they actually toldeF some groups that the systems they were doing were too reliable!  TheirE (WorldCom's) view was "put it out there, and if it crashes, that's OK8H so long as the features are there".  And it's just exactly that point ofH view that's become so prevalent in business today - and it's why MS getsJ so much business.  Do the systems on the cheap and worry about reliability last, if at all.     ------I +-------------------------------+---------------------------------------+oI | Dan O'Reilly                  |                                       |cI | Principal Engineer            |  "Why should I care about posterity?  |oI | Process Software              |   What's posterity ever done for me?" |.I | http://www.process.com        |                    -- Groucho Marx    |rI +-------------------------------+---------------------------------------+    ------------------------------    Date: 29 Jun 2002 07:13:31 -0700( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)! Subject: Re: Worldcom MCI and VMS = Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0206290613.1334ded6@posting.google.com>   a JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message news:<3D1D679B.2B4A55F5@videotron.ca>...- > Dan O'Reilly wrote:-O > > Yep!  There are still LOTS of VMS systems that just plain can't be replaced>R > > by UNIX systems, even though there have been attempts to do so for (literally)L > > 10 years or more in some cases.  The UNIX systems just can't do the job! >  > M > From a technical point of view, what sort of aspects would give VMS such ane  > advantage over a UNIX system ? > M > The way it was described, high perforance was the key factor. Isn't  UNIX a  > better performer than VMS ?  > O > Or was it the reliability/clustering features that made it possible to handleiE > the load where a Unix system couldn't be scalable enough to do it ?   ? here is one reason J.F., real time like DB/apps performance ...r  D VMS stands for Virtual Memory System. It is an operating system thatE Digital Equipment Corporation developed after the RSX system that ranaF on the PDP series of computers (circa late 70's early 80's - hence VMSB post-dates Unix -- more history here). VMS is process heavy ratherF than process light so programs load quite slowly - once loaded howeverC they make for reasonable real time perfomance despite the fact that C VMS was never designed to be a real time OS. Indeed this ability touC "run real time" is why VMS is not merely a good daemon platform bute0 the daemon platform - yup even better than Unix.   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 29 Jun 2002 15:40:26 GMTa1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>e! Subject: Re: Worldcom MCI and VMS ' Message-ID: <3D1DD8F8.C9E65E4E@fsi.net>    Dan O'Reilly wrote:  > ( > At 01:54 AM 6/29/2002, JF Mezei wrote: > >Dan O'Reilly wrote:Q > > > Yep!  There are still LOTS of VMS systems that just plain can't be replaced H > > > by UNIX systems, even though there have been attempts to do so for > > (literally)CN > > > 10 years or more in some cases.  The UNIX systems just can't do the job! > >  > >eO > > From a technical point of view, what sort of aspects would give VMS such anc! > >advantage over a UNIX system ?m > >gN > >The way it was described, high perforance was the key factor. Isn't  UNIX a > >better performer than VMS ? > >,P > >Or was it the reliability/clustering features that made it possible to handleF > >the load where a Unix system couldn't be scalable enough to do it ? > J > It's both, actually.  I won't go into technical details here, but from aI > performance standpoint, there are some features of VMS that UNIX simply L > can't duplicate, and that these systems exploit to their fullest.  SufficeH > it to say, I'll bet you've never seen a non-paged pool that's multiple > gigabytes in size...  H Yes, I have. We have one at work that's approaching 10GB (next upgrade).   --   David J. DachteraD dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/e   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 29 Jun 2002 10:48:53 -0500e0 From: arturo saavedra <arturo.saavedra@wcom.com>! Subject: RE: Worldcom MCI and VMS1C Message-ID: <NDBBJFNBJJHKADILJHIJEEDPIPAA.arturo.saavedra@wcom.com>2  J I'd say that a good 70% of our telemarketing infrastructure relies on VMS,J and another 20% on Tru64.  This is just telemarketing too, the DAPs/NASDAQ still relies on Alpha.   arturo saavedra-       -----Original Message-----4 From: JF Mezei [mailto:jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca]& Sent: Thursday, June 27, 2002 12:22 AM To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Come Subject: Worldcom MCI and VMS$    A Some years ago, there was a prominent and knowledgeable poster tot comp.os.vmseG who worked for MCI and contrary to many, felt very confident about VMS,E@ especially at his shop where attempts to replace VMS had failed.  J Since then, MCI was purchased by the .COM Worldcom which has made the news in recent days.  J Does anyone know whether MCI still has much VMS ? Has MCI's infrastructure3 spread to other parts of Worldcome or the reverse ?7   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 29 Jun 2002 10:56:32 -050050 From: arturo saavedra <arturo.saavedra@wcom.com>! Subject: RE: Worldcom MCI and VMS C Message-ID: <NDBBJFNBJJHKADILJHIJOEDPIPAA.arturo.saavedra@wcom.com>P  L Clustering.   VMS system goes down in our cluster environment, they only seeL a glitch, the user session drops, but reconnects automatically.. almost as aG network hiccup.   Tru64 folks would need to wait until their system wasi+ backup to a. start he application b. login.I   arturo saavedrao       -----Original Message-----4 From: JF Mezei [mailto:jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca]% Sent: Saturday, June 29, 2002 2:54 AM0 To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comv! Subject: Re: Worldcom MCI and VMSn     Dan O'Reilly wrote: D > Yep!  There are still LOTS of VMS systems that just plain can't be replacedD > by UNIX systems, even though there have been attempts to do so for (literally)hJ > 10 years or more in some cases.  The UNIX systems just can't do the job!    K From a technical point of view, what sort of aspects would give VMS such ans advantage over a UNIX system ?  K The way it was described, high perforance was the key factor. Isn't  UNIX a  better performer than VMS ?   F Or was it the reliability/clustering features that made it possible to handleC the load where a Unix system couldn't be scalable enough to do it ?N   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 29 Jun 2002 12:42:18 -0400e- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> ! Subject: Re: Worldcom MCI and VMS?, Message-ID: <3D1DE368.6BDE6F2C@videotron.ca>   arturo saavedra wrote: > N > Clustering.   VMS system goes down in our cluster environment, they only seeN > a glitch, the user session drops, but reconnects automatically.. almost as aI > network hiccup.   Tru64 folks would need to wait until their system was - > backup to a. start he application b. login.C  N Ok, someone mentioned non-paged pool. Does this mean that on unix, there is noN concept of memory that cannot be paged ?  On Unix, if you have sufficient RAM,H wouldn't it be possible to achieve a similar level of performance  since+ pageable memory wouldn't need to be paged ?   G And as far as clustering, isn't it possible to have an application on alK (primitive) unix cluster that automatically reconnects to another node when-L the node you're connected to fail ? I realise it may not be as pretty as theL VMS solution, but is it possible ? Or is it truly architecturally impossible to do ?e  N If one is to pitch a VMS solution and those are supposed to be VMS' strengths,N before you can say "you can't do that on Unix", one should really be sure thatK you can't do that on Unix, otherwise you lose credibility when the customer$% finds out that you can do it on Unix.    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 29 Jun 2002 11:52:39 -0500t0 From: arturo saavedra <arturo.saavedra@wcom.com>! Subject: RE: Worldcom MCI and VMSeC Message-ID: <NDBBJFNBJJHKADILJHIJKEEBIPAA.arturo.saavedra@wcom.com>   E I am sure it could be done on unix with some work.. but why, when itsk$ already available and proven on vms?     -----Original Message-----4 From: JF Mezei [mailto:jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca]& Sent: Saturday, June 29, 2002 11:42 AM To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Come! Subject: Re: Worldcom MCI and VMSt     arturo saavedra wrote: >OJ > Clustering.   VMS system goes down in our cluster environment, they only see.L > a glitch, the user session drops, but reconnects automatically.. almost as ahI > network hiccup.   Tru64 folks would need to wait until their system was.- > backup to a. start he application b. login.s  K Ok, someone mentioned non-paged pool. Does this mean that on unix, there ist noI concept of memory that cannot be paged ?  On Unix, if you have sufficient  RAM,H wouldn't it be possible to achieve a similar level of performance  since+ pageable memory wouldn't need to be paged ?X  G And as far as clustering, isn't it possible to have an application on ahK (primitive) unix cluster that automatically reconnects to another node wheneL the node you're connected to fail ? I realise it may not be as pretty as theL VMS solution, but is it possible ? Or is it truly architecturally impossible to do ?m  C If one is to pitch a VMS solution and those are supposed to be VMS'm
 strengths,I before you can say "you can't do that on Unix", one should really be surem thatK you can't do that on Unix, otherwise you lose credibility when the customerT% finds out that you can do it on Unix.T   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 29 Jun 2002 13:53:45 +0200o" From: "Hans Vlems" <hvlems@iae.nl> Subject: Re: Xwindows: XDM modee5 Message-ID: <afk6jv$f0kpg$1@ID-143435.news.dfncis.de>   H Good question. I tried XDM direct on a W98 server towards a VAX/VMS hostH and it timed out. The VAX runs TCPIP V 5.1 and VMS 7.2, without patches.  K There is an XDM setting provided in TCPIP, server option 20 that is enabled  and started.K Which seems to indicate that something else is needed on the VAX or that it  was not"" removed from tha VAX distribution.  8 JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message& news:3D1CBCE6.B51AD960@videotron.ca... > Dave Greenwood wrote:oJ > > XDM would give you the CDE login screen as if you were at the console. >tI > Would this apply to DECwindows on a VAX (which doesn't have CDE) also ?  > H > Is there anything I need to do on the VMS side to enable XDM service ? (eg:K > defining some service in TCPIP to direct requests to a VMS side XDM piece  of
 > software ?)e   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2002.355 ************************