1 INFO-VAX	Sun, 03 Mar 2002	Volume 2002 : Issue 121       Contents: Re: A newby DCL question. + Re: Compaq sells sole remaining Alpha plant ' Compaq sells sole remaining Alpha plant  Re: decnet phase IV -> phase V Re: decnet phase IV -> phase V Re: decnet phase IV -> phase V! Re: Display settings in VMS Motif ! Re: Display settings in VMS Motif  Employment for Oracle/OpenVMS $ Re: Hobbyist DEC TCPIP - Telnet bug!; Re: HP & Compaq high-end systems to "stay around for years"  Re: Itanium troubles! Re: Netcraft Uptime For OpenVMS ? ! Re: Netcraft Uptime For OpenVMS ? ! Re: Netcraft Uptime For OpenVMS ? ! Re: OPENVMS-HOBBYIST License PAK? ! Re: OPENVMS-HOBBYIST License PAK? ! Re: OPENVMS-HOBBYIST License PAK? ! Re: OPENVMS-HOBBYIST License PAK? P Re: Oracle RDB  ABUSIVE PRICE$  was (Re: MPE/iX users form OpenMPE organization)* Re: Sun eating major helping of Linux Crow* Re: Sun eating major helping of Linux Crow* Re: Sun eating major helping of Linux CrowI Re: To VMS support: What is VMS/ucx raw socket exposure to DrDos attacks?   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 23:05:55 GMT " From: "Hans Vlems" <hvlems@iae.nl>" Subject: Re: A newby DCL question.0 Message-ID: <nVcg8.163$Or2.4284@typhoon.bart.nl>  
 Gentlemen,  J the original poster, as I understood the question, asked for clarification ofJ the various assignament operators available in DCL and asked how to define	 logicals. E He was told how to work the HELP command, with the /noinstr qualifier 
 because itL would give him a straight overview of all the HELP topics instead of getting lost in - HELP's introduction; it might put people off. G And yes, my answer did not address the DEFINE (nor ASSIGN) command, but  again 8 these commands are both in the command overview of HELP.   Hans  2 Carl Perkins <carl@gerg.tamu.edu> wrote in message& news:2MAR200210141794@gerg.tamu.edu...% > wingwong@witty.com (wing) writes... % > }I am new to openvms and hence DCL.  > } A > }What is the difference of =, ==, := and define logical in DCL?  > }  > }Wing  > A > Well, none. But that is only because they aren't used to define C > logicals. They are used to define symbols, which are not the same  > thing. > ? > When defining symbols, the single "=" forms set local symbols A > and the "==" forms set global symbols. The ":" prefix to either D > adds some parsing "magic" where the rest of the line is treated asB > text and some additional things are done to it - I'm not sure ifB > this is the whole list, but leading spaces are removed, tabs areF > converted to spaces, multiple spaces are converted to single spaces,D > and it is all converted to upper case. (You can defeaat this extraB > parsing stuff by quoting it, but at that point you could usually0 > just as well use the version without the ":".) > F > The ":" version also lets you set substrings via the "[offset,size]"A > syntax. The version without the ":" lets you set bit fields via  > the same syntax. >  > Consider:  >  > $ foo :=    foo foo    foo > $ sh symb foo  >   FOO = "FOO FOO FOO"  > $ foo = "foo foo    foo" > $ sh symb foo  >   FOO = "foo foo    foo" >  > then >  > $ foo[5,2] := zz > $ sh symb foo  >   FOO = "foo fZZ    foo" > $ foo[3,3] = %x7 > $ sh symb foo  >   FOO = ">oo fZZ    foo" > J > If you use the "=" and/or ":=" form in a .COM file, the definitions willJ > disappear when the .COM file exits. They were local to the command levelI > of the executing .COM file. You have to use the "==" forms to have them I > stick around after it completes. This allows you to avoid cluttering up F > your symbol table, but still be able to pass symbols up to the level* > that did the "@somthing.com" and beyond. > E > Consult the HELP command, topics ":=" and "=", for detailed info on D > symbols (which is probably more clearly explained than the above). > E > Consult the HELP command, topics DEFINE (and ASSIGN, and DEASSIGN), % > for detailed info on logical names.  > 
 > --- Carl   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 21:36:56 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> 4 Subject: Re: Compaq sells sole remaining Alpha plant, Message-ID: <3C818C47.6FB0306D@videotron.ca>   Alan Greig wrote:  > ) > http://www.theinquirer.net/03030203.htm  > 1 >   THE FOLK IN AYR, SCOTLAND must be feeling fed 6 >   up as confirmation comes that the plant Compaq has8 >   there will be sold off to Jabil, which will become a9 >   "strategic global supplier" and even supply the Big Q  >   with some help.   K Compaq also sold off a big chunk of CMGI stock in the last few weeks. Seems < all those are actions to tidy up Compaq for the HP takeover.   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 01:39:04 +0000 % From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net> 0 Subject: Compaq sells sole remaining Alpha plant* Message-ID: <3C817EB8.38AD144B@virgin.net>  ' http://www.theinquirer.net/03030203.htm   /   THE FOLK IN AYR, SCOTLAND must be feeling fed 4   up as confirmation comes that the plant Compaq has6   there will be sold off to Jabil, which will become a7   "strategic global supplier" and even supply the Big Q    with some help.   .   Jabil makes circuit boards, manufactures and)   provides assembly faciltiies worldwide.   -   Compaq will "consolidate" its manufacturing +   operations into its main site at Erskine.   5   Once the sale is completed, Jabil will enter into a -   three year supply agreement to provide some    services to Compaq.   2   The 240 Compaq folk who used to work for Captain8   Capellas, now will work for Jabil Circuit, so at least   they won't lose their jobs.   4   Christina Hanger, for it is she who is a VP of Q's6   enterprise supply chain, said that the employees are2   joining a strong business focused on growing its   manufacturing operations.   3   Which, of course, Compaq seems no longer to be...       
   See Also,   Compaq shows off enormous whopper And some   Ayr restructuring    --
 Alan Greig   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 20:27:01 GMT 4 From: Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@blueyonder.co.uk>' Subject: Re: decnet phase IV -> phase V 0 Message-ID: <3C81346E.E67EB3F4@blueyonder.co.uk>   JF Mezei wrote:  >  > "Main, Kerry" wrote: > > Fyi - doc pointer.8 > > http://www.openvms.compaq.com:8000/index.html#decnet > N > It would greatly help if Digital were to proviode PDF or BOOREADER documentsA > that can be printed into a readable book instead of HTML pages.  > M > One really needs to sit down and read the stuff and HTML is not well suited  > for that.  > G > Is there a reason the web site doesn't provide bookreader documents ?    JF,   @ did you ever try to print out a whole book in bookreader format?  5 You'd be very lucky to get a fully readable document.    regards    --   Tim.Llewellyn@cableinet.co.uk     C Standard disclaimer applies. My views in no way represent those of  ! my employers or service provider.    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 17:25:05 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> ' Subject: Re: decnet phase IV -> phase V , Message-ID: <3C815134.363487A8@videotron.ca>   Tim Llewellyn wrote:B > did you ever try to print out a whole book in bookreader format?    I You are perhaps correct. I may have printed the TCPIP doc from some other L medium. What I don't remember is how I got it to print double sided. Maybe IL simply got the PS into PDF format on my MAC, and then print odd sided pages,F followed by printing even sided pages after having reversed the paper.   ------------------------------   Date: 3 Mar 2002 03:34:55 +0100 * From: eplan@kapsch.net (Peter LANGSTOEGER)' Subject: Re: decnet phase IV -> phase V * Message-ID: <3c818bcf$1@news.kapsch.co.at>  T In article <3C7F6664.5040104@bluewin.ch>, Paul Sture <paul.sture@bluewin.ch> writes: >Dirk Munk wrote: E >> And it is also easy to use DECnet over IP with Phase V, making it  B >> possible to use Copy to download freeware, instead of FTP.  ;-) >>  ' >I've never tried that. How is it done?   I COPY uses DCL and RMS, RMS uses DECnet and ODS, DECnet uses NSP/TCP/TP0-4 E (if you let COPY/FTP out, which is in fact another DCL command for an D ordinary FTP transfer). If both sides have DECnet-over-IP setup, andD (default) proxies added, then a simple COPY is possible. The problemD is only to know, which freeware archives offer DECnet-over-IP (which& is rarely found on non-VMS systems)...   --  < Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER           Tel.    +43 1 81111 2651; Network and OpenVMS system manager  Fax.    +43 1 81111 888 < KAPSCH AG      Wagenseilgasse 1     E-mail  eplan@kapsch.netH A-1121 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              "I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist"   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 23:29:35 +0100 ' From: Brass Christof <welcome@spam.net> * Subject: Re: Display settings in VMS Motif( Message-ID: <3C81524F.1CF570EA@spam.net>   Dirk Munk wrote: > I > Is it possible to change the display settings in Motif ? I'm using a 21 I > inch tube on my PWS500au, and I would like to have a higher resolution, " > and thus smaller characters etc. > 
 > Regards, >  > Dirk Munk   ; Besides the other hints you ev. could change the fonts set. < There are two sets of fonts, one is for 75dpi the other for ; 100dpi screens. If you're using the 100dpi fonts which can  8 be assumed with your 21" screen you could switch to the ) 75dpi fonts which will displayed smaller.   7 I did this once but don't remember clearly what I did.  4 I think basically I changed a logical that told the 2 DECwindow display server which size the pixels of  the screen were.  6 My point is: you can probably change this without any 6 change of HW settings and achieve what you want: less 3 pixels used for characters and icons and thus more   space left for placing those.    --  6 moc dot slupofni at ssarb - please revert the sequence   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 02:52:37 +0100 2 From: martin@radiogaga.harz.de (Martin Vorlaender)* Subject: Re: Display settings in VMS Motif; Message-ID: <3c8181e5.524144494f47414741@radiogaga.harz.de>   ( Brass Christof (welcome@spam.net) wrote: > Dirk Munk wrote:K > > Is it possible to change the display settings in Motif ? I'm using a 21 K > > inch tube on my PWS500au, and I would like to have a higher resolution, $ > > and thus smaller characters etc. > = > Besides the other hints you ev. could change the fonts set. > > There are two sets of fonts, one is for 75dpi the other for = > 100dpi screens. If you're using the 100dpi fonts which can  : > be assumed with your 21" screen you could switch to the + > 75dpi fonts which will displayed smaller.   < Right. That's a change that works with any graphics adapter.  9 > I did this once but don't remember clearly what I did.    ' It's in DECW$PRIVATE_SERVER_SETUP.COM :      $ DECW$SERVER_DENSITY == "75"    cu,    Martin --  F                           | Martin Vorlaender  |  VMS & WNT programmer3  Cetero censeo            | work: mv@pdv-systeme.de F  Redmondem delendam esse. |   http://www.pdv-systeme.de/users/martinv/:                           | home: martin@radiogaga.harz.de   ------------------------------  $ Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 14:30:53 -0500" From: "Hal Kuff" <kuff@tessco.com>& Subject: Employment for Oracle/OpenVMSO Message-ID: <BC86EF4AADE97A57.3107CE3F3B317E3F.E12946D02A3C14FA@lp.airnews.net>   K Hunt Valley Maryland end-user looking for OpenVMS Oracle/OCI programmer (or : DBA) looking to cross train as Oracle Applications DBA....   Hal Kuff Kuff@Tessco.Com    ------------------------------  $ Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 20:53:21 -0500  From: John Santos <JOHN@egh.com>- Subject: Re: Hobbyist DEC TCPIP - Telnet bug! 5 Message-ID: <1020302204613.3430D-100000@Ives.egh.com>    On 2 Mar 2002, Cthulhu wrote:   I > I acquired an OpenVMS/Alpha CD (thanks Montagar!) and I installed it on F > an Hobbyist AlphaServer 1200. And I discovered again the TELNET bug. > F > Now, would it be a so infamous crime if a kind people will send me aF > 5.0A kit, since Compaq has never released an "Hobbyist ECO" for this
 > bug? O:) >    anonymous ftp at:   > ftp://ftp.support.compaq.com/public/vms/axp/v7.2-1/tcpip/5.0a/0 dec-axpvms-tcpip_eco-v0500-113-4.pcsi-dcx_axpexe  3 and related files for release notes, checksum, etc.    > 	speranzosamente,  > 	    Cthulhu   --   John Santos  Evans Griffiths & Hart, Inc. 781-861-0670 ext 539   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 00:12:02 +0000 % From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net> D Subject: Re: HP & Compaq high-end systems to "stay around for years"* Message-ID: <3C816A51.49E85261@virgin.net>   Paul Repacholi wrote:   ) > Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net> writes:  > F > > On 28 Feb 2002 19:22:27 -0800, VMSfan@hotmail.com (VMS Fan) wrote: > C > > > the company will continue to make both Compaq and HP high-end F > > >enterprise systems that are already in customer use available for4 >                       ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^B > > >some time. "The big equipment will stay around for years," he > > >said.'  > B > > I think I'm more worried after reading that than I was before. > ( > Did I read you concern correctly Alan? >    You did unfortunately.   >  > --> > Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,9 > +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda. B >                                              West Australia 60760 > Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.H > EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   --
 Alan Greig   ------------------------------    Date: 03 Mar 2002 04:36:39 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com> Subject: Re: Itanium troubles 0 Message-ID: <873czi3dwo.fsf@k9.prep.synonet.com>  6 Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@blueyonder.co.uk> writes:  F > are games stressing the limitations of a 32 bit processor at present > of in the forseeable future?  E CPUs are ahead at the moment. Graphics are still on the edge. As near D as can be guessed, graphics will remain limited, and some games will' start to push the CPU and system buses.   D An interesting note, is that some games writers where not real happy@ with the PS2 CPU. They wanted more CPU to enable them to do moreF sophisticated game play logic. Video was great, but the CPU was little changed over the PS1.    --  < Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda. @                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------   Date: 2 Mar 2002 13:20:14 -0600 - From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) * Subject: Re: Netcraft Uptime For OpenVMS ?3 Message-ID: <4s$pwwMhUlz7@eisner.encompasserve.org>   S In article <a5qusj$gr5$2@joe.rice.edu>, leslie@clio.rice.edu (Jerry Leslie) writes: D > Is there any news on Netcraft's site being able to provide uptime  > for OpenVMS web servers ?  > D > It would be nice to see some OpenVMS systems on the "Top requested > sites" display:  > 7 >    http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/today/requested.html  >    Top requested sites  B If you search through Google for posts in this newsgroup involvingA Netcraft you will find someone from DEC saying they expected that @ VMS uptime statistics would be covered by Netcraft in a month or1 so (due to some changes made to accomplish that).   @ The time having expired, now would be a good time to remind them$ and ask what progress has been made.   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 03:04:48 +0100 ( From: Paul Sture <paul.sture@bluewin.ch>* Subject: Re: Netcraft Uptime For OpenVMS ?) Message-ID: <3C8184C0.1040100@bluewin.ch>    Jerry Leslie wrote:   D > Is there any news on Netcraft's site being able to provide uptime  > for OpenVMS web servers ?  > D > It would be nice to see some OpenVMS systems on the "Top requested > sites" display:  > 7 >    http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/today/requested.html  >    Top requested sites > 6 > --Jerry Leslie     (my opinions are strictly my own) >    Um, try d http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph/?mode_u=off&mode_w=on&site=www.openvms.compaq.com&submit=Examine   Paul   ------------------------------   Date: 3 Mar 2002 03:10:05 GMTs) From: leslie@clio.rice.edu (Jerry Leslie)s* Subject: Re: Netcraft Uptime For OpenVMS ?' Message-ID: <a5s46d$mcs$1@joe.rice.edu>a  ) Paul Sture (paul.sture@bluewin.ch) wrote:p
 : Um, try A : http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph/?mode_u=off&mode_w=on&site=O' : www.openvms.compaq.com&submit=ExamineT   This is what I got:m  @   "No uptime is currently available for www.openvms.compaq.com."   but I get this for www.sun.com:   4   "Uptime Charts and Statistics for www.sun.com ..."   Jerryp   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 19:31:23 GMTe- From: "John E. Malmberg" <wb8tyw@qsl.network> * Subject: Re: OPENVMS-HOBBYIST License PAK?* Message-ID: <3C812AEB.2030003@qsl.network>   Cthulhu wrote:> > I have also noticed that the Layered Products PAKs expire on' > 24-JAN-2002, about four months to go.a  8 That is the anniversery date of when you requested them.  ! > Not a big issue for an hobbyistsH > system, however the operating system PAK has the right expiration date > (one year from emission).a  I It indicates that you requested the layered products paks at a different y1 date than you requested the Operating System Pak.h   -Johnn wb8tyw@qsl.network Personal Opinion Only    ------------------------------   Date: 2 Mar 2002 23:18:55 +0100s  From: Cthulhu <noone@nowhere.it>* Subject: Re: OPENVMS-HOBBYIST License PAK?) Message-ID: <a5rj4f$7ri$1@kadath.deep.it>t  , John E. Malmberg <wb8tyw@qsl.network> wrote:  ( >> 24-JAN-2002, about four months to go.: > That is the anniversery date of when you requested them.  : Oops, sorry, typing error: that should look "24-JUN-2002".  K > It indicates that you requested the layered products paks at a different o3 > date than you requested the Operating System Pak.a   Negative, sir. :)a  / I have requested both them on Thu, 28 Feb 2002.o   This is how the OS PAK looks:   " $ LICENSE REGISTER OPENVMS-ALPHA	- 	/ACTIVITY=A	-, 	/AUTHORIZATION=DECUS-ITA-XXXXXXXXX-301455	- 	/DATE=28-FEB-2003	- 	/HARDWARE_ID=AY81121792	- 	/ISSUER=DECUS	- 	/OPTIONS=(NO_SHARE)	- 	/PRODUCER=DEC	- 	/TERMINATION=28-FEB-2003	-b 	/UNITS=0	-e  	/CHECKSUM=X-XXXX-XXXX-XXXX-XXXX  7 This is how all the Layered Products PAKs look instead:   % $ LICENSE REGISTER OPENVMS-HOBBYIST	-. 	/ACTIVITY=CONSTANT=100	- , 	/AUTHORIZATION=DECUS-ITA-XXXXXXXXX-301459	- 	/DATE=24-JUN-2002	- 	/ISSUER=DECUS	- 	/PRODUCER=DEC	- 	/TERMINATION=24-JUN-2002	-  	/UNITS=0	-   	/CHECKSUM=X-XXXX-XXXX-XXXX-XXXX  C And this is not the first time this year I got something like this!e   	confrontatamente, 	    Cthulhu   -- v  D    Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu http://www.rlyeh.it/ wgah'nagl fhtgan!$ 		     <cthulhu (at) rlyeh (dot) it>   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 22:59:51 GMTe- From: "John E. Malmberg" <wb8tyw@qsl.network>f* Subject: Re: OPENVMS-HOBBYIST License PAK?* Message-ID: <3C815BC6.1000300@qsl.network>   Cthulhu wrote:. > John E. Malmberg <wb8tyw@qsl.network> wrote: >  sK >>It indicates that you requested the layered products paks at a different o3 >>date than you requested the Operating System Pak.o >> >  > Negative, sir. :)  > 1 > I have requested both them on Thu, 28 Feb 2002.h >  > This is how the OS PAK looks:" > $ > $ LICENSE REGISTER OPENVMS-ALPHA	- > 	/DATE=28-FEB-2003	- > 	/TERMINATION=28-FEB-2003	-n  @ The OS PAK is tracked by the Serial number.  Each serial number I submitted will get a new aniversery date.  You can only renew within one  H month of the aniversery date, or you either get the same pak as before, @ or a warning that it is too soon to renew.  I am not sure which.  9 > This is how all the Layered Products PAKs look instead:  > ' > $ LICENSE REGISTER OPENVMS-HOBBYIST	-e > 	/ACTIVITY=CONSTANT=100	-i. > 	/AUTHORIZATION=DECUS-ITA-XXXXXXXXX-301459	- > 	/DATE=24-JUN-2002	- > 	/TERMINATION=24-JUN-2002	-A  G The Layered Products PAK is tracked by your DECUS number, It remembers aD when the PAKs were last requested, and up until a month before it's : renewal date will always send out the same PAKs as before.  G If you have more than one Hobby system registered, and registered them FF at different times, your layered products termination date will match ' the first time you registered for them.Y   -JohnN wb8tyw@qsl.network Personal Opinion Onlyi   ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 05:43:52 GMTw* From: 2damncommon <2damncommon@nospam.com>* Subject: Re: OPENVMS-HOBBYIST License PAK?< Message-ID: <20020302214430.5f5a05bc.2damncommon@nospam.com>   On 1 Mar 2002 22:54:55 -0600. Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) wrote:  c > In article <a5pblg02a4q@enews4.newsguy.com>, "Zane H. Healy" <healyzh@shell1.aracnet.com> writes:eI > > I just realized I needed to hurry up and get new Hobbyist PAKs for my ? > > system, and discovered that there is at least two new PAKs.r > > L > > I gather that DFG is "Disk File Optimizer"?  However, what on earth does > > OPENVMS-HOBBYIST do?!?!? > G > PAKs for OPENVMS-HOBBYIST are only provided to hobbyists.  Thus thirdtF > parties can honor that PAK rather than having to issue their own forF > hobbyists.  Some third parties would prefer to issue their own PAKs.  F Thank you, I have been dealing with PAKs and wondering the same thing.` NOTE: My VAX-VMS PAK and layered products PAKs all expire one year from when I applied for them. To Cthulhu: Perhaps a note to Montagar where you applied for the PAKs would be a good start. I received a good reply within a week to a question I had about qualifying for the hobbyist program.n I am about as green as they come. Due to general interest in OS's I loaded Charon-Vax (an excellent emulator, easier to run than WINE, BOCHS, or VM Ware as far as I am concerned) onto my Linux system and have VMS running.cf Have added users, learned to use HELP, mount and read my CDROM, and fooled with mail and text editors.a I am confused by the PAKs. I realize what they are, but am not really sure how to work with them. C Since I installed VMS from my hobbyist CD I loaded the VMS-VAX PAK..J I just happened to notice the OPENVMS-HOBBYIST PAK so I installed it also.4 Per a message from DECNET I also installed DVNETEND.V From the docs I have read I understand I should load the PAK first, then the software? Don't really know what software, PAKs, perform what functions. This may clear up when I am able to open the product info on my CD. Without turning this into comp.os.vms.whining.newbie.hobbyist, I am sure all us new hobbyist would appreciate any info, or links about how to deal with PAKS (when you are done laughing).  e   ------------------------------  * Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 14:08:38 +0000 (UTC), From: "Richard Maher" <maher_rj@hotmail.c0m>Y Subject: Re: Oracle RDB  ABUSIVE PRICE$  was (Re: MPE/iX users form OpenMPE organization)s1 Message-ID: <a5qmd5$2bn$1@knossos.btinternet.com>    Hi,y  E I've been talking with my Oracle Oracle counterparts at a company I'meH friendly with about pricing and have found that it's pretty difficult toL make an apples and apples comparison. For one thing Rdb bundles all sorts ofB useful esoteric stuff, like a BACKUP utility, in for free. When myK colleagues upgrade to 8i they'll be using RMAN but only on top of EDM whichyF they have to pay for seperately. They also have to keep at least threeI copies of every disk in the mirror set just so that they can drop one outPG when they need to do a backup. IE. There is no on-line backup facility.g  I It's also hard to compare storage costs 'cos these guys get the whole i/o-I sub-system (disks,controllers and soft-ware) from EMC but it works out toAF something like 35/meg. (There are obviously cheaper solutions around)  J Now nobody in Rdb engineering thinks that clusters are particularly usefulK for anything but Oracle Oracle users certainly do and they're happy to lashyK out another 80k (in production and UAT) for Veritas Cluster Server.  (UNIXd environment)  L But the killer comparison that I cam across is partitioning! Partitioning isH aparently an added extra/option with Oracle Oracle and with the existingI (per-user corporate wide) license agreement it would cost this company anaK extra 800,000 (that's Eight Hundred Thousand Pounds and zero pence) simplyxK to buy the partitioning option. I didn't see the quote but they swear to mehG that's the correct figure. (And this is not a particularly big company)S   Regards Richard Mahere  0 Dan O'Reilly <dano@process.com> wrote in message< news:5.1.0.14.2.20020227102946.00aefb38@raptor.psccos.com...K > In defense of Oracle, remember one thing:  when Rdb was a DEC product, itEE > was almost a throw-in; DEC made the money from hardware, the OS and- support.J > With Oracle, it ONLY has software to sell you (plus support, of course).I > So the money from the sale of the big-buck, high-margin hardware and OS- thatL > DEC could use to offset the cost of the layered product isn't available to	 > Oracle.y >tJ > Could Oracle charge less?  Who knows?  But I can see why they would have to- > charge significantly more than DEC used to.r >a' > At 10:19 AM 2/27/2002, Alan B. wrote:MA > >I remember when RDB was a Digital product it cost only several G > >thousand dollars on a big machine, similar to many layered products.r> > >When Oracle bought RDB the price jumped from about $2K/year: > >maintenance to about $25K/year...sounds like a CA move! >  > ------K > +-------------------------------+---------------------------------------+ K > | Dan O'Reilly                  |                                       |wK > | Principal Engineer            |  "Why should I care about posterity?  |hK > | Process Software              |   What's posterity ever done for me?" | K > | http://www.process.com        |                    -- Groucho Marx    |gK > +-------------------------------+---------------------------------------+- >-   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 15:48:13 -0500a1 From: Michael Austin <maustin@firstdbasource.com>:3 Subject: Re: Sun eating major helping of Linux Crow82 Message-ID: <3C813A8D.2ECB3C51@firstdbasource.com>   Bill Todd wrote:@ > > Was Reagan wrong in saying that Russia was an "Evil Empire?" >  > Yes, he was.    F IMHO, at the time he said, no he was not.  It is also not in the realmE of the impossible for someone or an entire regime for that matter, to  change.   < >But that would be a rather stupid diversion to pursue here.  ? probably, but you need to use better examples than this one. :)e   >  > - bill   --   Regards,  7 Michael Austin            Registered Linux User #261163 7 First DBA Source, Inc.    http://www.firstdbasource.comr Sr. Consultant   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 22:54:29 GMTu* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>3 Subject: Re: Sun eating major helping of Linux CrowR@ Message-ID: <FKcg8.7618$pN4.1249884@bin8.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>  > "Michael Austin" <maustin@firstdbasource.com> wrote in message, news:3C813A8D.2ECB3C51@firstdbasource.com... > Bill Todd wrote:B > > > Was Reagan wrong in saying that Russia was an "Evil Empire?" > >  > > Yes, he was. >aH > IMHO, at the time he said, no he was not.  It is also not in the realmG > of the impossible for someone or an entire regime for that matter, toc	 > change.  >s> > >But that would be a rather stupid diversion to pursue here. >eA > probably, but you need to use better examples than this one. :)e  0 You seem to be confused:  the example was Rob's.   - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 18:29:06 -0500-1 From: Michael Austin <maustin@firstdbasource.com>m3 Subject: Re: Sun eating major helping of Linux CrowE2 Message-ID: <3C816042.8EC262CD@firstdbasource.com>   sorry Bill.. wrong <snip>    Bill Todd wrote: > @ > "Michael Austin" <maustin@firstdbasource.com> wrote in message. > news:3C813A8D.2ECB3C51@firstdbasource.com... > > Bill Todd wrote:D > > > > Was Reagan wrong in saying that Russia was an "Evil Empire?" > > >o > > > Yes, he was. > >AJ > > IMHO, at the time he said, no he was not.  It is also not in the realmI > > of the impossible for someone or an entire regime for that matter, to7 > > change.0 > >e@ > > >But that would be a rather stupid diversion to pursue here. > > C > > probably, but you need to use better examples than this one. :)u > 2 > You seem to be confused:  the example was Rob's. >  > - bill   --   Regards,  7 Michael Austin            Registered Linux User #26116307 First DBA Source, Inc.    http://www.firstdbasource.comH Sr. Consultant 704-947-1089 (Office)o 704-236-4377 (Mobile)-   ------------------------------   Date: 2 Mar 2002 18:02:35 -0800n) From: P.Young@unsw.EDU.AU (Patrick Young) R Subject: Re: To VMS support: What is VMS/ucx raw socket exposure to DrDos attacks?= Message-ID: <55f85d77.0203021802.1947fbed@posting.google.com>   m bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski) wrote in message news:<d7791aa1.0203020447.502bc107@posting.google.com>...^  ^N > are you saying that this attack cannot use vms server sockets in any way and  K It's up to you how you wish to run your server applications. I actually run J mine, ie: web, as a _very ordinary_ user. The web server itself has accessK to content only through ACLs (IDENTIFIER=[WWW,APACHE],ACCESS=READ+EXECUTE).6J Then again my configuration is rather complex to provide a tiered level ofJ content maintainers. Another user id again is used for any CGI type stuff.  F Yes, I can be 100% sure my web server can't go creating raw sockets or7 do anything a _very ordinary_ user can't do themselves.-  F This is not to say a _very ordinary_ user can't run TCP/IP DOS attacksE (a situation we had with a _very ordinary_ user account under Tru64 -3D the same piece of code also worked just fine under a _very ordinary_ OpenVMS account).:   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2002.121 ************************rseeable future?  E CPUs are ahead at the moment. Graphics are still on the edge. As near D as can be guessed, graphics will remain limited, and some games will' start to push the CPU and system buses.   D An interesting note, is that some games writers where not real happy@ with the PS2 CPU. They wante gY    gY    gY    gY    gY    gY    gY    gY    gY    	gY    
gY    gY    gY    
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