1 INFO-VAX	Wed, 06 Mar 2002	Volume 2002 : Issue 127       Contents: Re: Alpha 2100A errors2 Another day, another security hole for windoze ...6 Re: Another day, another security hole for windoze ...% Any virus scan software for VMS smtp? ) Re: Any virus scan software for VMS smtp? 6 Re: Anyone See the full page ad letter to Mr. Hewlett?6 Re: Anyone See the full page ad letter to Mr. Hewlett?6 Re: Anyone See the full page ad letter to Mr. Hewlett?6 Re: Anyone See the full page ad letter to Mr. Hewlett?. best/most flexible preserve VMS files onto CD?2 Re: best/most flexible preserve VMS files onto CD?2 Re: best/most flexible preserve VMS files onto CD? Re: Change name of LSE icon ? , Re: Compaq lies again, calls Alphas Itanics!, Re: Compaq lies again, calls Alphas Itanics!, Re: Compaq lies again, calls Alphas Itanics!, Re: Compaq lies again, calls Alphas Itanics!, Re: Compaq lies again, calls Alphas Itanics!1 DCL Minute of the GMT+1 nite: nr of lines (again) 5 Re: DCL Minute of the GMT+1 nite: nr of lines (again) 5 Re: DCL Minute of the GMT+1 nite: nr of lines (again)  Re: DTE Unsynchronised emacs on VMS Re: emacs on VMS Re: emacs on VMS Re: emacs on VMS Fibre Channel HBA on OpenVMS  Re: Fibre Channel HBA on OpenVMS  Re: Fibre Channel HBA on OpenVMS& HobbesNet - free Hobbyist VMS accounts$ Re: Hobbyist DEC TCPIP - Telnet bug!@ Hydra Project (was Re: Compaq lies again, calls Alphas Itanics!)D Re: Hydra Project (was Re: Compaq lies again, calls Alphas Itanics!)3 Re: Install two extra EV68/883 processors into ES40  Re: Itanium troubles Re: Itanium troubles Re: Itanium troubles Re: Itanium troubles Re: Itanium troubles Re: Itanium troubles Re: Itanium troubles Re: Itanium troubles Re: Itanium troubles Re: Itanium troubles Re: Itanium troubles Re: Itanium troubles Re: Itanium troubles Re: Itanium troubles' Re: LIB$CVT_FROM_INTERNAL_TIME - year?? 4 Re: Looking for OpenVMS Hobbyist CD v1 (OpenVMS 6.2)4 Re: Merger question for someone in the know (Terry?) Re: OpenVMS Marketing! YES!  Re: OpenVMS Marketing! YES!  Re: OpenVMS Marketing! YES!  Re: OpenVMS Marketing! YES!  Re: OpenVMS Marketing! YES!  Re: OpenVMS Marketing! YES!  Re: OpenVMS Marketing! YES!  Re: OpenVMS Marketing! YES!  Re: OpenVMS Marketing! YES! O Re: Paul Vixie [was Re: above.net condones spam, spamware,   spamvertisements ] O Re: Paul Vixie [was Re: above.net condones spam, spamware,   spamvertisements ] O Re: Paul Vixie [was Re: above.net condones spam, spamware,   spamvertisements ] O Re: Paul Vixie [was Re: above.net condones spam, spamware,   spamvertisements ] O Re: Paul Vixie [was Re: above.net condones spam, spamware,   spamvertisements ] O Re: Paul Vixie [was Re: above.net condones spam, spamware,   spamvertisements ] O Re: Paul Vixie [was Re: above.net condones spam, spamware,   spamvertisements ] O Re: Paul Vixie [was Re: above.net condones spam, spamware,   spamvertisements ] O Re: Paul Vixie [was Re: above.net condones spam, spamware,   spamvertisements ] O Re: Paul Vixie [was Re: above.net condones spam, spamware,   spamvertisements ] N Re: Paul Vixie [was Re: above.net condones spam, spamware,  spamvertisements ]N Re: Paul Vixie [was Re: above.net condones spam, spamware,  spamvertisements ]P Re: Paul Vixie [was Re: above.net condones spam, spamware, spamvertisements ] sp Re: QUORUM disk questionP Re: R.I.P. OpenVMS - ISS Recommends That H-P Holders Vote in Favor of  Compaq AcP R.I.P. OpenVMS - ISS Recommends That H-P Holders Vote in Favor of Compaq AcquisiP Re: R.I.P. OpenVMS - ISS Recommends That H-P Holders Vote in Favor of Compaq AcqP Re: R.I.P. OpenVMS - ISS Recommends That H-P Holders Vote in Favor of Compaq AcqP Re: R.I.P. OpenVMS - ISS Recommends That H-P Holders Vote in Favor of Compaq AcqP Re: R.I.P. OpenVMS - ISS Recommends That H-P Holders Vote in Favor of Compaq AcqP Re: R.I.P. OpenVMS - ISS Recommends That H-P Holders Vote in Favor of Compaq AcqP Re: R.I.P. OpenVMS - ISS Recommends That H-P Holders Vote in Favor of Compaq AcqP Re: R.I.P. OpenVMS - ISS Recommends That H-P Holders Vote in Favor of Compaq Acq! RE: Standalone backup question... P Re: Sv: Younger recruits versus experienced veterans ( was The demise       of  2 Re: What VMS version runs on a Digital Server 30002 Re: What VMS version runs on a Digital Server 30002 Re: What VMS version runs on a Digital Server 30002 Re: What VMS version runs on a Digital Server 30002 Re: What VMS version runs on a Digital Server 30002 Re: What VMS version runs on a Digital Server 30002 Re: What VMS version runs on a Digital Server 3000  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 03:31:10 GMT 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>  Subject: Re: Alpha 2100A errors ' Message-ID: <3C858EF8.FEF902EE@fsi.net>    Dale J Martin wrote: >  > Greetings, > O > I work for a service provider that maintains assorted Alpha platforms running P > OpenVMS 7.1-2. Since we installed OpenVMS 7.1-2 roughly two years ago, we haveL > experienced several 630 cache correctable and 660 uncorrectable CPU errorsP > (either one or the other or both) on all of our AlphaServer 2100A systems. TheN > frequency of these errors occuring can be anywhere from three weeks to threeM > months, depending on the individual system. When we contact Compaq support, M > they tell us that the 630 errors are of no great concern and that we should N > monitor the system for future occurances and think about replacing memory ifK > they occur frequently. Of greater concern to us are the 660 uncorrectable P > errors, Compaq doesn't offer much except to say that some event on the PCI busO > is causing them and the CPU can't correct the error. We do have an assortment 3 > of third-party PCI cards installed in the 2100As.  > N > Has anyone had any type of experience with the cause of these 660 errors? IfI > so, what have you done about them? We have tried replacing CPU, memory, M > PCI/EISA daughter boards, system boards, and PCI cards to no avail, the 660 Q > error problem doesn't seem to follow any one piece of hardware. With the amount F > of output we get from the error log files, one would think that someQ > determination could be made about what specifically is happening to cause these O > errors. Upgrading O/S or hardware is not an option right now, I would like to ; > know why this is happening on these particular platforms.   G We had a "random" crash on our AS2100A a couple weeks back. No dump, no G error log entries, and the console is a VT520 so no help there. I still E have PCM V1.6 on an AlphaStation running OVMS V6.2-1H3. So, I'm gonna ) work on getting that back into the scene.   F This past weekend, we replaced the 4/275 CPUs (two of 'em) with 5/250sE and added a third, as well as adding  2 x 512MB memory in addition to C the 2 x 512MB that we already had. So, it's maxed: 3 CPUs, 2GB RAM.   G Oh yeah - added a second power supply for safety. Gonna hafta keep this / critter goin' for a couple years yet, at least.   @ I was wondering if anyone else noticed this: for the 2nd CPU andH further, you must increase the value of the console environment variableG "heap_expand" above the default value of (NONE). Else, the "POST" loops F until if finally gets enough heap space to run and get you to the dead sargent prompt ("P0>>>").   ! Got kinda buggered on that one...    --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------   Date: 5 Mar 2002 16:08:29 -0800 ( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski); Subject: Another day, another security hole for windoze ... = Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0203051608.4cfb65d5@posting.google.com>   9 latest windoze security bug ... start patching your 80000 8 windoze servers windoze lovers ... my vms system is safe and secure ...  ( Another hole found in Internet Explorer   " Emmenthalers affect proxy servers & By Mike Magee, 05/03/2002 19:21:06 BST  A MICROSOFT HAS MOVED TO FIX yet another hole in Internet Explorer, * posting a patch on its web site yesterday.B This time, the hole affects the Microsoft Virtual Java Machine andC operating systems across the line, including Windows XP "or later". " Does it mean XP for Itanium/AMD64?  D The latest hole, like many of the others, can allow the unscrupulous> to grab control of a browser and data passing through InternetB Explorer, by a process of enticement to an evil little Java applet
 somewhere.  B But home users are unlikely to be at danger of being caught - just? those who use a proxy server, like big corporations, government # establishments and the like. Cough.   * You can find Microsoft's latest fix here.   ? A few weeks back, Microsoft's Bill Gates suggested the firm was E deploying 7,000 employees to search and fix security problems dogging F its software. Has Bill forgotten that when Lotus was trying to put outF version 4 of 1-2-3, it tried the same trick, and ended up delaying the release by even longer?    ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 00:24:45 GMT L From: winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU ("Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr")? Subject: Re: Another day, another security hole for windoze ... 8 Message-ID: <00A0A7EA.B9C55CE1@SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>  = In article <d7791aa1.0203051608.4cfb65d5@posting.google.com>, * bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski) writes:  : >latest windoze security bug ... start patching your 800009 >windoze servers windoze lovers ... my vms system is safe  >and secure ...    and quotes:    > ) >Another hole found in Internet Explorer   >   5 YM "start patching your 80 million windoze desktops".   L (Because of Colin Blake's sterling work in keeping up with Mozilla releases,I VMS isn't inherently immune from cross-platform browser holes.  It's just > immune from cross-platform _Internet Explorer_ browser holes.)   -- Alan     O =============================================================================== 0  Alan Winston --- WINSTON@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDUM  Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056 M  Physical mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 69, PO BOX 4349, STANFORD, CA  94309-0210 O ===============================================================================    ------------------------------   Date: 5 Mar 2002 16:12:39 -0800 ( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski). Subject: Any virus scan software for VMS smtp?= Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0203051612.1843853c@posting.google.com>   < Called Compaq, Sophos and others and can't find a virus scan< product that runs on vms for vms smtp based mail servers ...9 get the typical "why not put another windoze or linux box 7 in front of vms and run 2 servers?" to which I respond  = why should I be forced to run 2 smtp servers, especially when > the windoze linux front would be exposing me to the very thing> I avoid running a single vms server, shutdowns ... does anyone know of anything for vms?    ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 00:28:06 GMT L From: winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU ("Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr")2 Subject: Re: Any virus scan software for VMS smtp?8 Message-ID: <00A0A7EB.31BADA00@SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>  = In article <d7791aa1.0203051612.1843853c@posting.google.com>, * bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski) writes:  = >Called Compaq, Sophos and others and can't find a virus scan = >product that runs on vms for vms smtp based mail servers ... : >get the typical "why not put another windoze or linux box8 >in front of vms and run 2 servers?" to which I respond > >why should I be forced to run 2 smtp servers, especially when? >the windoze linux front would be exposing me to the very thing ? >I avoid running a single vms server, shutdowns ... does anyone  >know of anything for vms?  J Call Sophos back.  Their VSWEEP product runs on VMS.  I tested it a coupleK of years ago and it worked fine, but they wanted to base the license fee on J the number of Windows desktops in the lab, which was just way more than I A could justify, especially when the desktops already ran Inoculan.   O (With the awesome capabilities of VMS batch processing, you can run a .COM file M that runs WGET every couple of hours to pull down the latest virus definition H files from Sophos and install them, according to happy customers on the  INFO-PMDF mailing list.)   -- Alan     O =============================================================================== 0  Alan Winston --- WINSTON@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDUM  Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056 M  Physical mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 69, PO BOX 4349, STANFORD, CA  94309-0210 O ===============================================================================    ------------------------------   Date: 5 Mar 2002 13:40:17 -0600 9 From: kaplow_r@eisner.encompasserve.org.mars (Bob Kaplow) ? Subject: Re: Anyone See the full page ad letter to Mr. Hewlett? 3 Message-ID: <bLqy8+E9qzAT@eisner.encompasserve.org>   | In article <ueXg8.2676$sK.89821@e3500-atl2.usenetserver.com>, "Stanley Reynolds" <nospam_stanley_reynolds@yahoo.com> writes:J > Got a copy in the mail with my white proxy card. I've already send in myG > green proxy card I love the idea of one share one vote. HP was a good N > company if they buy this compaq mess I'll have a bunch of shares to dump. If; > I owned compaq would have sold after the digital buy out.   F Looks like the time to dump what was left of the DEC stock was about 6E months after the merger. it's done nothing but dive from about $50 to  about $10 since then...   / Thanks Ekhard and Mike! Can Carly be any worse?   B         The problem with governments is that citizens need to keepD         them on a short leash; unfortunately the nature of the beastD         is such that governments can usually arrange it so that only"         they hold their own leash.  1 	26-October, 2001: A day that will live in infamy 4 	Support Freedom: http://www.indefenseoffreedom.org/   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 19:53:07 GMT * From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>? Subject: Re: Anyone See the full page ad letter to Mr. Hewlett? C Message-ID: <Cm9h8.268244$Aw2.21691675@bin7.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>   F "Bob Kaplow" <kaplow_r@eisner.encompasserve.org.mars> wrote in message- news:bLqy8+E9qzAT@eisner.encompasserve.org... H > In article <ueXg8.2676$sK.89821@e3500-atl2.usenetserver.com>, "Stanley5 Reynolds" <nospam_stanley_reynolds@yahoo.com> writes: L > > Got a copy in the mail with my white proxy card. I've already send in myI > > green proxy card I love the idea of one share one vote. HP was a good G > > company if they buy this compaq mess I'll have a bunch of shares to  dump. If= > > I owned compaq would have sold after the digital buy out.  > H > Looks like the time to dump what was left of the DEC stock was about 6G > months after the merger. it's done nothing but dive from about $50 to  > about $10 since then...  > 1 > Thanks Ekhard and Mike! Can Carly be any worse?   K I'm not sure that's entirely fair to Eckhard, since mergers that size *are* K difficult and he was scarcely given time (well under a year) to sort it out K before being ousted.  And while I agree that Carly would be hard-pressed to I be worse than Curly, don't forget that he plans to 'help' her (and in any K event that even being 'only' as bad, or even marginally better, would still L be ample grounds for seeking alternatives by rejecting the merger and hoping0 this will cause *both* of them to get the boot).   - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 15:43:30 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> ? Subject: Re: Anyone See the full page ad letter to Mr. Hewlett? , Message-ID: <3C852DED.33C9325A@videotron.ca>   Bill Todd wrote:M > I'm not sure that's entirely fair to Eckhard, since mergers that size *are* + > difficult and he was scarcely given time    K How much suppport did he have from his board to burden Compaq with Digital. N And did that support begin when Pfeifferstarted discussion with Palmer 3 yearsM before the merger announcement, or did Pfeiffer secretly meet with Palmer and 9 presented his board with a "fait accompli" for approval ?   M > before being ousted.  And while I agree that Carly would be hard-pressed tor@ > be worse than Curly, don't forget that he plans to 'help' her   W I am not convinced that Curly will be around for very long once the merger is consumed.    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 22:33:49 GMTu* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>? Subject: Re: Anyone See the full page ad letter to Mr. Hewlett?lC Message-ID: <hJbh8.269221$Aw2.21812034@bin7.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>t  : "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message& news:3C852DED.33C9325A@videotron.ca... > Bill Todd wrote:I > > I'm not sure that's entirely fair to Eckhard, since mergers that sizee *are*v, > > difficult and he was scarcely given time > D > How much suppport did he have from his board to burden Compaq with Digital.J > And did that support begin when Pfeifferstarted discussion with Palmer 3 years,K > before the merger announcement, or did Pfeiffer secretly meet with Palmeru and ; > presented his board with a "fait accompli" for approval ?M > L > > before being ousted.  And while I agree that Carly would be hard-pressed toA > > be worse than Curly, don't forget that he plans to 'help' her  >VL > I am not convinced that Curly will be around for very long once the merger is consumed.   Just call her 'spider woman'?s   - bill   ------------------------------   Date: 5 Mar 2002 14:16:43 -0800r$ From: leeroth@my-deja.com (Lee Roth)7 Subject: best/most flexible preserve VMS files onto CD?s; Message-ID: <d0e744c9.0203051416.75258c@posting.google.com>3  A I have some old TK50 & TK70 tapes that were made with VMS BACKUP.e= I would like to 'restore' these files onto a Microvax II hard C drive (temporarily), and then ship them to a Windoze PC for burning  onto CD.  @ The unpacked files may be text files, other VMS savesets, etc. - a wide mix of stuff.  > The goal is to move them to a Windows burned CD so that in the> future I may grab the text files that I need (using Windows or@ Unix), but still be able to (if needed) ship files back to a VAX@ system to get VMS-specific files (such as the .BCK files created with VMS BACKUP).a  D I am considering using VMSTAR to create a 'kit' of the tape-restoredC files and then shipping the .tar file (or the G-zipped tar file) top the PC for CD burning.  @ For grabbing specific text files WinZip can usually take apart a& G-zipped tar set (e.g.  fooey.tar.gz).  C Does this sound like a sound approach that will give me full access[C to saved files under VMS, Windows or Unix? I am going to experiment E with VMSTAR, GZIP, etc. under VMS before deciding on my final method.t   Thanks,a   Lee Roth    p.s.vB  Sorry, the email address associated with this posting isn't valid;  anymore, so if emailing instead of posting please email totA  'leexixroth@yahoo.com', but first remove the 'roman numerals fors/  nineteen' from the middle of my email address..   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 04:01:36 GMTe1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>e; Subject: Re: best/most flexible preserve VMS files onto CD?w& Message-ID: <3C859673.3F31647@fsi.net>   Lee Roth wrote:e > C > I have some old TK50 & TK70 tapes that were made with VMS BACKUP.b? > I would like to 'restore' these files onto a Microvax II hardxE > drive (temporarily), and then ship them to a Windoze PC for burninge
 > onto CD. > B > The unpacked files may be text files, other VMS savesets, etc. - > a wide mix of stuff. > @ > The goal is to move them to a Windows burned CD so that in the@ > future I may grab the text files that I need (using Windows orB > Unix), but still be able to (if needed) ship files back to a VAXB > system to get VMS-specific files (such as the .BCK files created > with VMS BACKUP).e > F > I am considering using VMSTAR to create a 'kit' of the tape-restoredE > files and then shipping the .tar file (or the G-zipped tar file) tod > the PC for CD burning. > B > For grabbing specific text files WinZip can usually take apart a( > G-zipped tar set (e.g.  fooey.tar.gz). > E > Does this sound like a sound approach that will give me full access E > to saved files under VMS, Windows or Unix? I am going to experimentnG > with VMSTAR, GZIP, etc. under VMS before deciding on my final method.D  D It's important to remember that there are exactly TWO(2) RMS formatsG that translate directly to other platforms: "stream" (Stream, Stream_CRrF and Stream_LF) and "binary" (Fixed-512). In all other cases, RMS filesH are - for the most part - unusable on platforms that do not support RMS.  D You could, I suppose, use MKISOFS_VMS (search Google Groups for it),H with the understanding that files of types other than the aforementioned will get hopelessly scrambled.  G However, if you're willing to spend the time to do the conversions, you3G could first convert all your text files to Stream_LF and be able to use G them from an ISO-9660 CD on all platforms: w/3.x, W/9x, W/NT, W2K, UN*Xu and VMS.  F BACKUP Savesets are only useful on VMS systems. So, ZIPping them first: is the best way to package them for platform transparency.  H Graphics files (.GIF, .JPG, etc.) should survive as long they're alreadyE Fixed-512, although endian-ness of the target platform may eventuallyb become an issue.  < All other RMS files are best ZIPped using /VMS (or "-V" *IN*A *QUOTES*!!!) sicne they will be unintelligble on non-RMS systems.o   Why .ZIP archives? Because:t  H o The RMS attributes and be saved in the archive and restored on another platform that supports RMS.c  A o The .ZIP archive is a "binary" (Fixed-512) file and is platform G transparent. It will survive the transition into an ISO-9660 container.IB ZIP archives for VMS don't always unpack to anything meaningful onH non-VMS systems, but that's o.k.: without RMS support, the results would be somewhat useless, anyway.  F Newer VMSTAR may preserve RMS attributes, but may not save the versionH number (not sure - haven't played with it for while). Likewise for GZIP,E unless someone has done some major work on V1.2.4 or later. I'd stickr2 with ZIP/UNZIP for VMS, but that's just me - YMMV.   Dunno if this helps...   --   David J. Dachterao dba DJE Systemsw http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/s   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 23:25:53 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> ; Subject: Re: best/most flexible preserve VMS files onto CD?0, Message-ID: <3C859A4C.32F66AEE@videotron.ca>   "David J. Dachtera" wrote:F > It's important to remember that there are exactly TWO(2) RMS formatsI > that translate directly to other platforms: "stream" (Stream, Stream_CRe* > and Stream_LF) and "binary" (Fixed-512).  M "Undefined" should be included in this too. Also, there are fixed record size J files that can be transfered and used on other platforms. (eg: fixed files( with any record size can be transfered).  J > Graphics files (.GIF, .JPG, etc.) should survive as long they're alreadyG > Fixed-512, although endian-ness of the target platform may eventuallyr > become an issue.  J image files are generally endianness-independant. TIFF for instance has an: endianness indicator in the first few bytes of the header.  F One option would be to make 2 backups. One that preserves all VMS fileE attributes, and one which backup's only the text format in a platform  independant fashion (eg: ZIP).   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 14:42:23 -0500P- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>-& Subject: Re: Change name of LSE icon ?, Message-ID: <3C851F9E.34383B43@videotron.ca>   Yves wrote:)B > The title of each window is "DEC Language-Sensitive Editor: ...". > and iconified the icon name is always "LSE".    Not sure about LSE, but for TPU:   	set (WIDGET, ! 	     get_info(SCREEN, "widget"), 
 		"title", 		"the new name")m  B Instead of "the new name", I use get_info(current_buffer,"name"));  I Note that the above doesn't "stick" very well and with EVE, the title bar M often reverts to "EVE", so I defined a PF key that resets the window title to  the buffer name. t   I also have:   	set ( ICON_NAME,e& 		 get_info(current_buffer, "name") );   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 19:38:41 GMT * From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>5 Subject: Re: Compaq lies again, calls Alphas Itanics!uA Message-ID: <599h8.48317$yL2.4037327@bin6.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>n  / "Dr. Dweeb" <Dweeb@NoSpam.com> wrote in message * news:1j7h8.297$Nw2.2894@news.get2net.dk.../ > Hmm, clustering in 1980 ?  Is that accurate ?   G Well, the extremely ambitious Hydra project that eventually devolved (asA little like PRISM devolved into Alpha) into (certainly still verysJ respectable) clustering may have had its roots that far back.  But I agree) that the statement is at best misleading.n   - bill   >p > Dweebo8 > "Barry Treahy, Jr." <Treahy@mmaz.com> wrote in message# > news:3C83A7E5.7060208@mmaz.com...2 > > Bob Ceculski wrote:c > >d$ > > >isn't this ad 5 years too soon? > > >r. > > >http://www.theinquirer.net/mm25020202.htm > > >a  > > >Compaq TV ad to push Itanic > > >S( > > >But they're Alphas in Pittsburgh...+ > > >By Mike Magee, 03/03/2002 01:20:54 BSTt > > >u > >hG > > Compaq seem to like doing these sorts of things.  The recent Inform.H > > (Spring 2002) that came out spoke of how "Compaq invented clusteringK > > concept 22 years ago with OpenVMS clusters."  Humm, does that mean whensJ > > I purchased my home I invented garages?  They may own the rights to itL > > but it seems a bit disingenuous to take credit for the creation of it... > >x	 > > Barry  > >M > > > K > > >THE WORD ON THE advertising street is that Compaq is preparing a TV adr< > > >that will have Alpha aficionados fainting in disbelief.H > > >According to sources so close to Compaq that they're not allowed toC > > >view the INQUIRER on their PCs, the ad features the Pittsburgh= > > >Supercomputing facility.= > > >=K > > >This facility, of course, demonstrates the fearsome power of the AlphaT! > > >in its high end incarnation.l > > >yJ > > >But, we understand, shots of the Pittsburgh site are interleaved withH > > >pictures of an unlidded Compaq Itanium, which of course is shipping- > > >now after that horrible SNAFU last year.= > > >=J > > >The director of the center - which uses Alpha technology - is made toK > > >say something along the lines that the incredible computation power ofVF > > >his installation proves the superiority of the Itanium processor. > > >l@ > > >Which of course it doesn't. And won't for a fair old while. > > >nB > > >Meanwhile, intrepid girl reporter Eva Glass tells us that theG > > >marketing department(s) at Q are very much afraid that if the HP-Q C > > >takeover goes ahead on April Fool's day, most will go, go, go.s > > >yH > > >That, she understands, means that little in the way of marketing isJ > > >going on, the CVs/resumes are flying like confetti, while "cover your" > > >ass" is the order of the day. > > >-J > > >But is having the words Compaq Marketing Specialist on your CV a good= > > >recommendation for a future job, Eva mischievously asks.v > > >a > > >a > >r > > -- > >eC > > Barry Treahy, Jr  *  Midwest Microwave  *  Vice President & CIO< > >aE > > E-mail: Treahy@mmaz.com * Phone: 480/314-1320 * FAX: 480/661-7028C > >k > >i > >  >C >e >o   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 20:15:45 GMTo. From: "Duane Sand" <Duane.Sand@mindspring.com>5 Subject: Re: Compaq lies again, calls Alphas Itanics! : Message-ID: <RH9h8.6011$L7.7447@rwcrnsc52.ops.asp.att.net>  + "Barry Treahy, Jr." <Treahy@mmaz.com> wrotep > Rob Young wrote: >o) > >"Dr. Dweeb" <Dweeb@NoSpam.com> writes:v1 > >>Hmm, clustering in 1980 ?  Is that accurate ?h > >n > > No.s. > > According to "VAX OpenVMS at 20", page 60: > > VAX V4 September 1984 -c > > o VAXclusterse > > o Connection manager > > o Distributed Lock Manager' > > o Distributed File System (F11BXQP)  > > etc. > >w > > Robs > H > I simply quoted it from Compaq's 'Inform' Issue Number 36, Spring 2002H > on page 25.  Obviously, Compaq is not only taking credit for what theyF > did not create, but now they are revising history.  No doubt this isI > unintentional mistake of some marketing pin-head that doesn't know what I > it is he or she is promoting, but it does effect credibility, something)( > that Compaq just doesn't understand... >= > Barry=    E Tandem began shipping clusters several years before I joined in 1982;SE probably 1979 or earlier.  Tandem began with a 16-node cluster-withinLD -a-box with its very first fault tolerant products sold in 1977, andA extended that to hundreds of LAN- & WAN-connected dispersed boxes=C and distributed databases as soon as it had the networking software-J called EXPAND.  Digital merely followed Tandem's lead, somewhat later.  :)  G Getting upset that today's ads don't mention the original company nameslG of Compaq's divisions is silly.  Getting upset that Compaq takes creditgI for (ie reminds people of) the inventions of its people is silly.  We didy inventJ this stuff, the products are here, many of the same people are still here,7 and our stuff is purchased only via Compaq salespeople.r  J I suppose you similarly expect Microsoft to explain in its ads that 50% ofJ the content of Windows was developed by the various companies it acquired,E and expect Cisco to advertise that 95% of its products were developedm" by the many companies it acquired.     -- Duane Sando   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 16:06:02 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>a5 Subject: Re: Compaq lies again, calls Alphas Itanics!r, Message-ID: <3C853333.756FB63D@videotron.ca>   Duane Sand wrote:;G > Tandem began shipping clusters several years before I joined in 1982;cG > probably 1979 or earlier.  Tandem began with a 16-node cluster-within F > -a-box with its very first fault tolerant products sold in 1977, andC > extended that to hundreds of LAN- & WAN-connected dispersed boxes E > and distributed databases as soon as it had the networking softwarec > called EXPAND. R  F Puts things into perspective. Was the 1977 "cluster in a box" the same3 philosophy as today's tandems or was it different ?   N And as far as the LAN-WAN dispersed boxes, at what timeframe did WAN come intoF play ? Back in early 1990s when I implemented a VAX-VMS based disasterL recovery, the tandem folks next to me told me that they couldn't yet do that: (two tandems in different buildings with shadowed drives).  A As I recall, VMS gained ethernet clustering circa 1987, correct ?d   ------------------------------   Date: 6 Mar 2002 00:56:34 +0100s* From: eplan@kapsch.net (Peter LANGSTOEGER)5 Subject: Re: Compaq lies again, calls Alphas Itanics!e* Message-ID: <3c855b32$1@news.kapsch.co.at>  W In article <1j7h8.297$Nw2.2894@news.get2net.dk>, "Dr. Dweeb" <Dweeb@NoSpam.com> writes:n. >Hmm, clustering in 1980 ?  Is that accurate ?   Close, but no cigar.  0 	http://www.compaq.com/alphaserver/vax/timeline/  
 says May-1983   4 	VAXclusters tied VAX processors together in a loose1 	processor coupling that allowed VAX computers tod= 	operate as a single system, extending the characteristics ofg9 	VAX to high capacity and high availability applications.l   -- t< Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER           Tel.    +43 1 81111 2651; Network and OpenVMS system manager  Fax.    +43 1 81111 888l< KAPSCH AG      Wagenseilgasse 1     E-mail  eplan@kapsch.netH A-1121 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              "I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist"   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 04:00:10 GMT . From: "Duane Sand" <Duane.Sand@mindspring.com>5 Subject: Re: Compaq lies again, calls Alphas Itanics! ; Message-ID: <dvgh8.7704$L7.13349@rwcrnsc52.ops.asp.att.net>>  / "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrotey > Duane Sand wrote:cI > > Tandem began shipping clusters several years before I joined in 1982; I > > probably 1979 or earlier.  Tandem began with a 16-node cluster-within H > > -a-box with its very first fault tolerant products sold in 1977, andE > > extended that to hundreds of LAN- & WAN-connected dispersed boxesiG > > and distributed databases as soon as it had the networking software  > > called EXPAND. >eH > Puts things into perspective. Was the 1977 "cluster in a box" the same5 > philosophy as today's tandems or was it different ?   8 Yes, same as now, but then without the SQL database etc.= We fell into a market for modular expandibility and networked C position independence, by accident, as a unplanned byproduct of therA initial fault tolerant message-based multicomputer system design.H   >tB > And as far as the LAN-WAN dispersed boxes, at what timeframe did > WAN come into play ?  I Nationwide networks were equivalent to campus and intra-building networkscI by 1983, at least for Tandem's internal network if not at customer sites. I In 1984 or so we added satellite-based long distance links, using 40-footiK dishes that never caught on but still occupy our campus.  This connectivity E of raw file systems preceded the SQL data base that made it easier tow manage the spread of data.  A > Back in early 1990s when I implemented a VAX-VMS based disasteruN > recovery, the tandem folks next to me told me that they couldn't yet do that< > (two tandems in different buildings with shadowed drives).  J The backing up of single logical volumes (or complete systems) at separateD sites came with RDF (Remote Disaster Facility), which I think TandemO began shipping in early 90's, as a guess.  Before that, the fault tolerance for-E drives and data was local to a 16-cpu node, with geographic dispersalrM of elements of a database just for performance, not fault tolerance, I think.    > C > As I recall, VMS gained ethernet clustering circa 1987, correct ?e   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 21:23:37 +0100t, From: Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@gmx.ch>: Subject: DCL Minute of the GMT+1 nite: nr of lines (again)& Message-ID: <3C852948.221900B9@gmx.ch>  P This one is really straightfoward, but very useful to know in a few seconds thatM you actually have 1251 DCL procedures for a total of 363 711 lines on a disk:e   $! NR_OF_LINES.COM $ on warning then exit, $ if p1 .eqs. "" then inq p1 "Input file(s)" $ if p1 .eqs. "" then exit $ say = "write sys$output". $ if f$search("a.a") .nes. "" then dele_ a.a;* $ say "working..." $ def sys$output a.a $ cop 'p1'; nl:/logr $ deass sys$output $ close/nolog ch $ open/read ch a.a $ nb_files = 0 $ nb_lines = 0 $LOOP: $ read/end=EOF ch line $ nr = f$element(1,"(",line)  $ if nr .eqs. "(" then goto LOOP $ nr = 'f$element(0," ",nr)' $ nb_files = nb_files + 1c $ nb_lines = nb_lines + nr $ goto LOOPd $EOF:u
 $ close chF $ s = "s"                  !I know, I could use f$FAO but I'm lazy :-)  $ if nb_files .eq. 1 then s = ""8 $ say nb_files," file''s' and ",nb_lines," lines in ",p1 $ exit  ! $ @nr_of_lines dka300:[*...]*.comv1 1251 files and 363711 lines in DKA300:[*...]*.COMl   D. -- tH   ----------------------------------------------------------------------H MORANDI Consultants  -  WEB: http://Didier.Morandi.Free.fr/index_us.htmlH Pflanzschulstrasse 53, 8004 Zurich, Switzerland. GSM: +41 (0)79 705 4670H 19, chemin de la Butte, 31400 Toulouse, France.  GSM: +33 (0)6 7983 6418B        >>>  A V A I L A B L E    2nd  of  A P R I L   2 0 0 2  <<<H Disaster Recovery Plans, Computer Security Audits, DEC OpenVMS ExpertiseH On parle franais Man spricht Deutsch se habla Castellano English spoken   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 03:46:57 GMTn1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> > Subject: Re: DCL Minute of the GMT+1 nite: nr of lines (again)' Message-ID: <3C859307.451247B9@fsi.net>    Didier Morandi wrote:I > R > This one is really straightfoward, but very useful to know in a few seconds thatO > you actually have 1251 DCL procedures for a total of 363 711 lines on a disk:h >  > $! NR_OF_LINES.COM > $ on warning then exit. > $ if p1 .eqs. "" then inq p1 "Input file(s)" > $ if p1 .eqs. "" then exit > $ say = "write sys$output"0 > $ if f$search("a.a") .nes. "" then dele_ a.a;* > $ say "working..." > $ def sys$output a.a > $ cop 'p1'; nl:/loge > $ deass sys$output > $ close/nolog ch > $ open/read ch a.a > $ nb_files = 0 > $ nb_lines = 0 > $LOOP: > $ read/end=EOF ch line > $ nr = f$element(1,"(",line)" > $ if nr .eqs. "(" then goto LOOP > $ nr = 'f$element(0," ",nr)' > $ nb_files = nb_files + 1e > $ nb_lines = nb_lines + nr
 > $ goto LOOPr > $EOF:c > $ close chH > $ s = "s"                  !I know, I could use f$FAO but I'm lazy :-)" > $ if nb_files .eq. 1 then s = "": > $ say nb_files," file''s' and ",nb_lines," lines in ",p1 > $ exit > # > $ @nr_of_lines dka300:[*...]*.comr3 > 1251 files and 363711 lines in DKA300:[*...]*.COMc  * Doesn't SEARCH/STATISTICS already do that?  @ DJAS01::DDACHTERA$ search sys$update:vmsinstal.com ""/stat/noout  E Files searched:                 1       Buffered I/O count:         7eE Records searched:            3457       Direct I/O count:          19FE Characters searched:       104079       Page faults:               31 H Records matched:             3437       Elapsed CPU time:  0 00:00:00.11H Lines printed:                  0       Elapsed time:      0 00:00:00.21   -- a David J. Dachterai dba DJE SystemsJ http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/o   ------------------------------   Date: 5 Mar 2002 22:09 CST' From: carl@gerg.tamu.edu (Carl Perkins)O> Subject: Re: DCL Minute of the GMT+1 nite: nr of lines (again), Message-ID: <5MAR200222093099@gerg.tamu.edu>  0 Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@gmx.ch> writes...Q }This one is really straightfoward, but very useful to know in a few seconds that1N }you actually have 1251 DCL procedures for a total of 363 711 lines on a disk:   [...snip...]  " }$ @nr_of_lines dka300:[*...]*.com2 }1251 files and 363711 lines in DKA300:[*...]*.COM }  }D.   * That's doing it the hard way. Much easier:  % $ search/stat $disk1:[*...]*.com zqzqT  + [cutting out a few NULLFILE informationals]e  E Files searched:              1666       Buffered I/O count:     19419iE Records searched:           85594       Direct I/O count:       12403rE Characters searched:      2702673       Page faults:               88nH Records matched:                0       Elapsed CPU time:  0 00:00:05.86H Lines printed:                  0       Elapsed time:      0 00:00:52.43' %SEARCH-I-NOMATCHES, no strings matched-  F So 1666 .COM files with 85594 lines (and 2702673 characters - info you can't get the way you did it).   --- Carl   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 19:40:27 +0000E+ From: "antonio.carlini" <arcarlini@iee.org>  Subject: Re: DTE Unsynchronised & Message-ID: <3C851F2B.2000608@iee.org>   Matt Muggeridge wrote:  J > Not receiving any packets.  There are quite a few possibilities here andM > it's best to start with modem connect.  I no longer have a system to verifye1 > the commands below, but I'm sure they're close:e   > M >     show modem connect line * all stat  --> especially verify the status is  > "Full Enabled" assuming FDX.    ) I never came across anyone who had messede. up modem connect. The config (at least on VAX)( gives you little rope with which to hang yourself here.  M >     show lapb link * all char --> one end must be set to DTE, the other seti > to DCE    1 This is true. But this were all that were wrong Ik% would expect to see packets arriving.   M > Assuming your modem connect entities are in the correct state, I have ofteneL > found that people forget to set one end of their LAPB link to DCE mode and > the other to DTE mode.    & True ... and few of them realise that,- with effort, you can mess it up independentlys at both L2 and L3 :-)B  + I suspect, however, that since there is notf) a peep of received data, that somethng ist3 wrong at the physical layer. Dead or removed cable,E6 dead or disconnected modem, other end switched off ...     Antonion   ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 19:15:39 -0800# From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com>f Subject: emacs on VMSa9 Message-ID: <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIEEJCEEAA.tom@kednos.com>l  J I have had eamcs 19.22 running on 6.2 for some years, I would like to haveK emacs also on some of the newer systems, like 7.3.  Can someone point me tofB a site where I can get a copy of emacs that installs without major
 intervention.   K I installed the latest version of emacs on W2K with almost no effort and itmH works marvelously, why not VMS?  It installs without hitch on almost any unix> platform.  And you wonder why people are moving away from VMS.  I I think it Compaq's resposibility to at least facilitate the portation of  third G party software if not support it.  For VMS engineering to spend all thet energiesK to port to IPF and not to facilitate third party packages is to spill theirv seed upon the ground.  E Any software on the freeware disk, must be tested by Compaq.  It muste installbK without hitch.  I don't have the time to spend, like many other people,  toz doK somebody else's job.  If not, don't publish a Freeware disk, it is wothlesso if# not maintaining a certain standard.o   ------------------------------   Date: 5 Mar 2002 21:34:20 -0600a- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)  Subject: Re: emacs on VMSs3 Message-ID: <5EVAxlR9a9c1@eisner.encompasserve.org>t  _ In article <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIEEJCEEAA.tom@kednos.com>, "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> writes:nL > I have had eamcs 19.22 running on 6.2 for some years, I would like to haveM > emacs also on some of the newer systems, like 7.3.  Can someone point me to D > a site where I can get a copy of emacs that installs without major > intervention.n  G > Any software on the freeware disk, must be tested by Compaq.  It must 	 > installTM > without hitch.  I don't have the time to spend, like many other people,  toa > doM > somebody else's job.  If not, don't publish a Freeware disk, it is wothlesso > if% > not maintaining a certain standard.   B I disagree on that point, because I think the Freeware disc shouldA be something quite different from products.  But I _do_ think thed? VMS user community needs to engage in a little self-policing ofd? software quality on the Freeware discs.  These submitters oftent@ are well-regarded in the newsgroups, but I cannot understand why? they cannot put together PCSI and KITINSTAL  routines for theirrB software.  Yes the source is provided, but that does not mean that" people _want_ to program the tool.  C Emacs seems to be particularly poor in this regard as it _requires_p= TCP/IP to operate and has to be built for a particular TCP/IPt= product.  Well my machines have multiple TCP/IP products, butw? most of the time none is running.  If one were running it would % depend on what I wanted to test with.   ? One theory is that Emacs has this TCP/IP dependency in order to-A use Unix-style pseudo-terminals rather than VMS pseudo-terminals. < That is taking compatibility with the Unix version too far !   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 22:41:03 -0500n2 From: rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger) Subject: Re: emacs on VMSiK Message-ID: <rdeininger-0503022241030001@1cust111.tnt1.nashua.nh.da.uu.net>e  F In article <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIEEJCEEAA.tom@kednos.com>, "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> wrote:r  K >I have had eamcs 19.22 running on 6.2 for some years, I would like to haveaL >emacs also on some of the newer systems, like 7.3.  Can someone point me toC >a site where I can get a copy of emacs that installs without major: >intervention. >DL >I installed the latest version of emacs on W2K with almost no effort and itI >works marvelously, why not VMS?  It installs without hitch on almost any> >unixr? >platform.  And you wonder why people are moving away from VMS.   B I dunno anything about emacs.  Maybe it's so unpopular that no VMS1 enthusiast has taken the time to keep it current.d  J >I think it Compaq's resposibility to at least facilitate the portation of >thirdH >party software if not support it.  For VMS engineering to spend all the	 >energiessL >to port to IPF and not to facilitate third party packages is to spill their >seedo >upon the ground.,  F Have you heard of DII-COE?  Have you noticed the improvements in the CH run-time library in the last few releases?  More and more unixy stuff isC being added to VMS.  The effort is NOT all going into the IPF port.o  F >Any software on the freeware disk, must be tested by Compaq.  It must >installL >without hitch.  I don't have the time to spend, like many other people,  to >dosL >somebody else's job.  If not, don't publish a Freeware disk, it is wothless >if $ >not maintaining a certain standard.  J If that's the rule, the freeware disk is history.  Gather up free softwareC of widely varying quality, package it for easy installation, run itnH through the full range of VMS qualification, fix the bugs, and then giveF it away?  That hardly seems reasonable.  I guess Compaq ought to stuff/ $100 bills in each package while they're at it.o  G I guess if Compaq shifts some people away from unix compatibilty stuff, 8 they can use the manpower to qual the freeware packages.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 22:38:39 -0600eC From: "Craig A. Berry" <craig.berry@nospam.SignalTreeSolutions.com>h Subject: Re: emacs on VMSeH Message-ID: <craig.berry-9B1728.22383905032002@news.directvinternet.com>  9 In article <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIEEJCEEAA.tom@kednos.com>,u%  "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> wrote:s   > Can someone point me totD > a site where I can get a copy of emacs that installs without major > intervention.-  H Search the archives of this newsgroup for information about ongoing and @ intermittent efforts to get more recent versions up and running.  M > I installed the latest version of emacs on W2K with almost no effort and it J > works marvelously, why not VMS?  It installs without hitch on almost anyE > unix platform.  And you wonder why people are moving away from VMS.o  E I've never heard of anyone moving away from VMS because of a lack of s/ emacs.  Still, it would be quite handy to have.L  Q > I think it Compaq's resposibility to at least facilitate the portation of thirdhR > party software if not support it.  For VMS engineering to spend all the energiesQ > to port to IPF and not to facilitate third party packages is to spill theirseed  > upon the ground.  G Do you have any evidence that Microsoft sponsored the port of emacs to cC Win2K?  I seriously doubt they did.  Do you have any evidence that yD Compaq is *not* doing anything about making porting easier?  By all H accounts they are.  The only reason there are more freeware packages on E other platforms is that there are more volunteers contributing their -H time; with few exceptions it seldom has anything to do with what the OS  vendor does or doesn't do.  I Sure, I'd like to see several other porting efforts of the same scope as eA Mozilla or Apache.  Some of particular size and complexity (like ,I StarOffice) could probably never happen without sponsorship from Compaq, aD and that won't happen until significant numbers of paying customers - present a business case for why they need it.s  G > Any software on the freeware disk, must be tested by Compaq.  It mustwU > install without hitch.  I don't have the time to spend, like many other people,  toVS > do somebody else's job.  If not, don't publish a Freeware disk, it is wothless ifT% > not maintaining a certain standard.1  H Freeware is not "somebody else's job"; it is everyone's job.  If you're C not willing to contribute, at least don't act as if those who care RI enough about software to put their evenings and weekends into it owe you -E something.  If you have trouble with a freeware package and have not <G attempted to debug the problem yourself and/or written the author, you II have nothing to complain about.  That's just how it works.  If you don't J) like that, no one requires you to use it.t   ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 17:08:18 -0500$ From: "JRT" <Jrtibbitts@hotmail.com>% Subject: Fibre Channel HBA on OpenVMSa+ Message-ID: <a63fs1$bjt$1@bob.news.rcn.net>   A We are in a position where we need to attach our OpenVMS boxes toa@ a SAN. We seem to have a problem. We can't get teh system to see) the third party storage. Any suggestions?e   JR   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 23:39:02 GMT # From: "John N." <JNixon@cfl.rr.com> ) Subject: Re: Fibre Channel HBA on OpenVMSi= Message-ID: <qGch8.51723$TV4.8781806@typhoon.tampabay.rr.com>s  G I suspect that someone is going to need a little more to go on than youiF gave.  You can't see Compaq storage either, until you complete several configuration tasks.  F Which 3rd party?  What OVMS version?  What hardware (controllers, hostG adapters)  What is you topology (switches?, hubs?)  What have you triedi already?    / "JRT" <Jrtibbitts@hotmail.com> wrote in messagek% news:a63fs1$bjt$1@bob.news.rcn.net...rC > We are in a position where we need to attach our OpenVMS boxes toiB > a SAN. We seem to have a problem. We can't get teh system to see+ > the third party storage. Any suggestions?e >v > JR >r >f >    ------------------------------   Date: 5 Mar 2002 18:28:42 -0800e1 From: keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com (Keith Parris)p) Subject: Re: Fibre Channel HBA on OpenVMSe= Message-ID: <cf15391e.0203051828.3449da30@posting.google.com>d  W "JRT" <Jrtibbitts@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<a63fs1$bjt$1@bob.news.rcn.net>...iC > We are in a position where we need to attach our OpenVMS boxes totB > a SAN. We seem to have a problem. We can't get the system to see+ > the third party storage. Any suggestions?h  C You'll probably have to start by running the WWIDMGR utility at theh system console prompt.  / More documentation on FC stuff may be found at: , http://www.openvms.compaq.com/openvms/fibre/? ----------------------------------------------------------------? Keith Parris | parris at encompasserve dot org | Consulting on:t> Clusters, Disaster Tolerance, Performance, I/O, Storage & SANs   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 23:45:56 -0600g8 From: Scott Squires <admin@remove_this.hobbesthevax.com>/ Subject: HobbesNet - free Hobbyist VMS accountsvC Message-ID: <050320022345563125%admin@remove_this.hobbesthevax.com>N  ' This is an announcement and an apology.f  F Since 1999, HobbesNet has provided VMS hobbyists with free accounts onD Hobbes, our MicroVAX 3100/40.  Now we are linked via many well known
 VMS sites.  D However, over the last several months many people requested accountsF which were not created until today.  We apologize.  Those who providedE all of the information asked for have been granted accounts, and haveeF been sent e-mails with their username and password.  Those who did notC provide all of the required information have been sent e-mails withhD instructions on how to access their application so they can make the necessary changes.  E Any new account requests will be processed within 1 to 3 days.  If we1G don't get back to you within that period, we encourage you to pester use with e-mail.  A To apply for an account, telnet to hobbes.thevax.org and login as-= NEWUSER.  You will be guided through the application process./  D More information is available on our web site, http://www.thevax.org   Regards,
 Scott Squires7 HobbesNet Administrator    ------------------------------   Date: 5 Mar 2002 12:09:56 -0800>7 From: uwe.leinberger@t-systems.com (Dr. Uwe Leinberger) - Subject: Re: Hobbyist DEC TCPIP - Telnet bug!t= Message-ID: <b6b2072c.0203051209.2042308f@posting.google.com>   W Brass Christof <welcome@spam.net> wrote in message news:<3C84BD6F.61762426@spam.net>...0 > Cthulhu wrote: > > < > > Dr. Uwe Leinberger <uwe.leinberger@t-systems.com> wrote: > > G > > > ....the "bug" I am fighting at the moment on my DS10 is licensingf > > > TCPIP. > > 9 > > Deh-eh... you are using a DS10 ad an hobbyist box? :!t > > K > > > With the hobyist license I got a UCX-License in the layered products, I > > > but TCPIP (i.e. UCX5.x) does not seem to honor the UCS-license....?w > > L > > In Hobbyist LP PAKs there is one called just "UCX", and that worked fine > > with TCPIP 5.0[A]. > > I > > Maybe I'm too stupid to understand how to get them working just afteriG > > activation, but I often solve license "invisibility" with a reboot.p > ? > The first step I do is to "license register"; the next is to b> > "license load". I don't remember that I ever had to re-boot " > for being able to use a license. > K > > However, as Hoff would say, being more detailed would help the wizards.  > > ;) > >  > >         presuntuosamente,E > >             Cthulhu  > >  > > -- > > H > >    Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu http://www.rlyeh.it/ wgah'nagl fhtgan!6 > >                      <cthulhu (at) rlyeh (dot) it>  E yep. I'm indeed using a DS10....sometimes you can get lucky....but off= course, the three fans in there make quite some noise....;-))S  D I solved the problem. I somehow shoot myself in the foot by creating1 two different logicals for lmf-db during startup.    *-(   B Fixed that at last, and now of course the ucx license is found and :-))   Thanks all!u   Uwe    ------------------------------   Date: 5 Mar 2002 16:07:33 -0800 1 From: keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com (Keith Parris) I Subject: Hydra Project (was Re: Compaq lies again, calls Alphas Itanics!)l< Message-ID: <cf15391e.0203051607.3830dbb@posting.google.com>  s "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote in message news:<599h8.48317$yL2.4037327@bin6.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>... I > Well, the extremely ambitious Hydra project that eventually devolved (arC > little like PRISM devolved into Alpha) into (certainly still very:? > respectable) clustering may have had its roots that far back.>  C I'm interested in hearing more about this Hydra project.  What werel9 its goals?  What interesting technologies did it involve?t? ---------------------------------------------------------------1? Keith Parris | parris at encompasserve dot org | Consulting on:.> Clusters, Disaster Tolerance, Performance, I/O, Storage & SANs   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 00:47:12 GMT1* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>M Subject: Re: Hydra Project (was Re: Compaq lies again, calls Alphas Itanics!)cA Message-ID: <kGdh8.73350$nz4.7077465@bin4.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>O  > "Keith Parris" <keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com> wrote in message6 news:cf15391e.0203051607.3830dbb@posting.google.com...7 > "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote in messagee= news:<599h8.48317$yL2.4037327@bin6.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>...SK > > Well, the extremely ambitious Hydra project that eventually devolved (a E > > little like PRISM devolved into Alpha) into (certainly still very-A > > respectable) clustering may have had its roots that far back.1 >0E > I'm interested in hearing more about this Hydra project.  What wereD; > its goals?  What interesting technologies did it involve?   L I'm far from the best person to ask - if the passage of sufficient time (andJ a couple of decades would *seem* sufficient in this industry) has made theK details non-sensitive corporate information, perhaps someone better able to  will expound on it.m  @ The little I remember included extreme scalability and pervasiveL fault-tolerance - e.g., Joost Verhofstad was heavily involved deep in the OS@ in details that eventually surfaced as RMS-specific, rather thanH OS-pervasive, journaling/recovery unit features (i.e., think of RUs thatG recover complete process context rather than just storage context).  My K impression was that it went beyond similar Tandem facilities, but, again, I E don't know details.  IIRC after a couple of years the ability to shipvK anything complete enough to be useful in a reasonable time-frame started to J get very questionable, at which point a significantly scaled-back subset - clusters - was productized.    - bill   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 20:25:33 GMTe7 From: jim.a@geminidigital.com (Gemini Digital Products)n< Subject: Re: Install two extra EV68/883 processors into ES40. Message-ID: <3c8528d8.422478271@news.minn.net>  D On Tue, 05 Mar 2002 10:01:27 +1000, How-Hie Ling <h.ling@qut.edu.au> wrote:   >Hi all, >L9 >I am going to install two more 883MHz CPUs into an ES40.D@ >Apart from adding two more OPENVMS-ALPHA licences, do I have toI >change any kernel parameters to make use of the extra cpu?  Do I have to  >e >do an AUTOGEN at all? >  >Thanks in advance,n >e
 >How-Hie Linge >Qld Uni. of Technologya >Brisbane, Australia.t >j  F I assume you will be adding a 2nd power supply ( if not already there)* to drive a processor count greater than 2.   Jim AV   ------------------------------    Date: 06 Mar 2002 01:15:53 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com> Subject: Re: Itanium troublesl0 Message-ID: <87elizylyu.fsf@k9.prep.synonet.com>  4 Jan C. Vorbrggen <jvorbrueggen@mediasec.de> writes:  < > > In comp.os.vms Nick Maclaren <nmm1@cus.cam.ac.uk> wrote:  B > > : Them: I have spoken to the developers and they say it is not: > > : supposed to work.  We will change the documentation.  D > > Now that's clever marketing ... it's not a bug, the s/w that was9 > > supplied and documented is not supposed to work!  Then  > > documentation will be fixed!   B > Used to be the SOP at IBM - they even had a name for it (which I > can't seem to remember).  @ Feature? As in Feeping creaturitis, or... It's not a bug, it's a	 FEATURE!!u     -- :< Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.d@                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 19:47:07 GMTl* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> Subject: Re: Itanium troublesmA Message-ID: <_g9h8.71102$nz4.6798931@bin4.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>   5 "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote in messagea= news:E%tf8.214019$Aw2.16733077@bin7.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com...e >s9 > "Tony Scandora" <Scandora@cmt.anl.gov> wrote in messagea' > news:a5ljpt$n2d$1@milo.mcs.anl.gov...    ...    >   AMD's own FAQ at > >s >tL http://www.amd.com/us-en/Processors/DevelopWithAMD/0,,30_2252_875_1024,00.htK > > ml says, "Future processors derived from the 'hammer' architecture willa beD > > able to use existing and future 32-bit operating systems such as > Windows98,< > > Windows ME, Windows NT, Windows 2000, WindowsXP & Linux. >eH > Indeed.  However, the conditionals reportedly appeared to apply to the3 > 64-bit Windows code, not the 32-bit Windows code.e  K Just to follow up a bit more specifically, www.theinquirer.net has articles B today and yesterday with pointers to additional instances of AMD64J conditionals and documentation in the XP code and documentation bases.  ItG really does look as if XP will be ready to run on Hammer in 64-bit mode ' around the time Hammer starts shipping.d   - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 14:53:54 -0500a- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>x Subject: Re: Itanium troubles-, Message-ID: <3C852251.89911B1E@videotron.ca>  " "Scandora, Anthony (35048)" wrote:K > I always though of SGI as a graphics leader, but eWeek (2/4/02 p.14) saysnL > Pixar and DreamWorks are both in the process of moving from Irix to Linux.0 > DreamWorks is collaborating with HP on IA-64:   N Remember Titanic ? Their rendering requirements were such that it was worth it@ for them to build a "proprietary" Alpha farm for the renderings.  K From the Pixar and Dreamworks perspective, I strongly suspect that they arecH being paid handsomely to burden themselves with IA64. When push comes toI shove, I suspect that they will get a real machine to make the big motion M pictures and relegate the IA64 to their training department that doesn't need  all the raw horsepower.             "This will be the world'sK > first IA-64 render farm, giving DreamWorks' artists the ability to createtL > larger, more complex images," said co-founder Jeffrey Katzenberg.  They'reH > only two customers, but they're big and they're visible.  If the IA-64M > render farm needs more CPUs than an equivalent Alpha render farm, so be it.cA > They'll get the job done and be a good advertisement for IA-64.r > K > Keep in mind that Itanium today has failed to meet the absurd -- some say J > fraudulent -- claims made years ago by Intel's propaganda machine.  ThatN > does not change the fact that Intel has a lot of money to pay a lot of smartK > people to make future generations of a very ambitious product better thanoL > the current.  If I wanted a high performance system now or during the nextN > few years, I'd buy Alpha, knowing it's the best at the time of purchase, andK > that when it's time to abandon the hardware, my VMS or Linux applicationsdN > will be easy to move to whatever hardware is current at the time.  (I wish I: > could say the same for Tru64, but that's another story.) > 3 > Tony Scandora, Argonne National Lab, 630-252-7541h > scandora@cmt.anl.gov   ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 20:02:19 +0000, From: Peter Boyle <pboyle@holyrood.ed.ac.uk> Subject: Re: Itanium troublesyH Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.33.0203051953490.12895-100000@holyrood.ed.ac.uk>  # On Tue, 5 Mar 2002, JF Mezei wrote:,  $ > "Scandora, Anthony (35048)" wrote:M > > I always though of SGI as a graphics leader, but eWeek (2/4/02 p.14) saysoN > > Pixar and DreamWorks are both in the process of moving from Irix to Linux.1 > > DreamWorks is collaborating with HP on IA-64:d >.P > Remember Titanic ? Their rendering requirements were such that it was worth itB > for them to build a "proprietary" Alpha farm for the renderings. >eM > From the Pixar and Dreamworks perspective, I strongly suspect that they arenJ > being paid handsomely to burden themselves with IA64. When push comes toK > shove, I suspect that they will get a real machine to make the big motion O > pictures and relegate the IA64 to their training department that doesn't needn > all the raw horsepower.r  H Ermm... remember that the Itanic debuted at the top of the SPEC-FP list.@ Mckinley on FP may surprise you. For a render farm the itanic is> easily competetive in performance. I would guess the price was" substantially below "list price" .  A I have no knowledge of reliability or what the deal was, but if IpG were offered a dirt cheap IA-64 cluster, free code optimisation offers,p@ etc... (i.e. whatever Intel wants out of it's $200million dollar7 port/acceptance fund), it could look *very* attractive.o   Peter Boylee   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 21:45:22 +0100o, From: Toon Moene <toon@moene.indiv.nluug.nl> Subject: Re: Itanium troublesn4 Message-ID: <3C852E62.28EA1965@moene.indiv.nluug.nl>  " "Scandora, Anthony (35048)" wrote:   > If the IA-64M > render farm needs more CPUs than an equivalent Alpha render farm, so be it.O               ^^^^^^^^^^A > They'll get the job done and be a good advertisement for IA-64.s6                                     ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^  F Obviously, my reading abilities are deteriorating quickly, these days.   -- oG Toon Moene - mailto:toon@moene.indiv.nluug.nl - phoneto: +31 346 214290p6 Saturnushof 14, 3738 XG  Maartensdijk, The NetherlandsG Maintainer, GNU Fortran 77: http://gcc.gnu.org/onlinedocs/g77_news.html.E Join GNU Fortran 95: http://g95.sourceforge.net/ (under construction)i   ------------------------------   Date: 5 Mar 2002 20:47:47 GMTt( From: nmm1@cus.cam.ac.uk (Nick Maclaren) Subject: Re: Itanium troubles 0 Message-ID: <a63atj$6s8$1@pegasus.csx.cam.ac.uk>  H In article <Pine.GSO.4.33.0203051953490.12895-100000@holyrood.ed.ac.uk>,. Peter Boyle  <pboyle@holyrood.ed.ac.uk> wrote: >r$ >On Tue, 5 Mar 2002, JF Mezei wrote: > % >> "Scandora, Anthony (35048)" wrote:rN >> > I always though of SGI as a graphics leader, but eWeek (2/4/02 p.14) saysO >> > Pixar and DreamWorks are both in the process of moving from Irix to Linux.u2 >> > DreamWorks is collaborating with HP on IA-64: >>Q >> Remember Titanic ? Their rendering requirements were such that it was worth it0C >> for them to build a "proprietary" Alpha farm for the renderings.n >>N >> From the Pixar and Dreamworks perspective, I strongly suspect that they areK >> being paid handsomely to burden themselves with IA64. When push comes topL >> shove, I suspect that they will get a real machine to make the big motionP >> pictures and relegate the IA64 to their training department that doesn't need >> all the raw horsepower. >.I >Ermm... remember that the Itanic debuted at the top of the SPEC-FP list.7A >Mckinley on FP may surprise you. For a render farm the itanic isi? >easily competetive in performance. I would guess the price wast# >substantially below "list price" .    And possibly even negative :-)  @ Yes, indeed, the question is how McKinley will perform and when.E And, of course, how many OEMs put their products where their trumpetsv@ blow in the month or few following its release.  All interesting, or credible rumours gratefully received ....  B >I have no knowledge of reliability or what the deal was, but if IH >were offered a dirt cheap IA-64 cluster, free code optimisation offers,A >etc... (i.e. whatever Intel wants out of it's $200million dollar 8 >port/acceptance fund), it could look *very* attractive.  C Quite.  All current procurements of IA-64 systems can be assumed to:E be bogus, without loss of generality.  We shall see what happens when4? and if McKinley hits the open market, though I suspect that itseA systems will be heavily discounted for a bit by a good proportion  of the vendors.     @ Incidentally, how many other people were surprised by how littleA was said about IA-64 at IDF?  If we exclude the mandatory trumpets= blowing by the executives, and the much-repeated tutorials onIA tuning, there didn't seem to be anything.  One current hypothesisoA seems to be that the spin doctors told Intel that they had such a/? credibility gap that they should shut up until they can deliver-D on the nail.  Another is that McKinley is slipping, but I have heard no confirmation of that.  E The remarks about the Montecito a week or so earlier were interesting-A but bizarre - I have great difficulty in believing that the Alpham@ people and technology can be got on board fast enough to deliverA much of consequence (let alone EPIC+SMT) in 2004.  But it is well.D known that executives confuse easily, even when they aren't spinning a line.o     Regards, Nick Maclaren,* University of Cambridge Computing Service,> New Museums Site, Pembroke Street, Cambridge CB2 3QH, England. Email:  nmm1@cam.ac.uk/ Tel.:  +44 1223 334761    Fax:  +44 1223 334679    ------------------------------  * Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 21:15:08 +0000 (UTC)7 From: dsiebert@excisethis.khamsin.net (Douglas Siebert)h Subject: Re: Itanium troublese+ Message-ID: <a63cgs$f9m$1@sword.avalon.net>   , "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> writes:  L >Just to follow up a bit more specifically, www.theinquirer.net has articlesC >today and yesterday with pointers to additional instances of AMD64oK >conditionals and documentation in the XP code and documentation bases.  It H >really does look as if XP will be ready to run on Hammer in 64-bit mode( >around the time Hammer starts shipping.    H When they posted the first article about this a couple days ago, for theE hell of it I did a search for 'AMD64' on microsoft.com, and got threecF hits (the same three they mentioned yesterday, so I guess they thoughtF to do the same thing)  With the other information that has been dug upH since then, it seems pretty clear that full support for Hammer is ready,C now that MS likely has a few early Clawhammer systems to play with, C they'll have plenty of time to test it and get it production ready.s  J The only question is whether Intel will be able to apply pressure on them,I or more likely, make a big concession to them in exchange, to not release G it.  The fact MS has never confirmed it exists says a lot, if they were H 100% sure they were going to release it there wouldn't be any reason notF to talk about it.  They weren't shy about talking about 64 bit WindowsH for Itanium (and Alpha for that matter) long before those were scheduled to be released.l  G So it seems pretty likely to me MS realizes they have a nice bargainingbB chip with Intel, and MS is always unhappy with Intel about variousD things, especially if they do anything related to software, like theE dynamic network-switching wireless software they demonstrated at IDF.bG So if you hear stories about Intel killing some project that MS doesn'te5 like, don't look for XP for x86-64 when Hammer ships.u  H If Intel's x86-64 implementations ever see the light of day, I'll bet itH will be particularly galling to them to that the #defines in the Windows code for it is 'AMD64'.u   --H Douglas Siebert                          dsiebert@excisethis.khamsin.net  J A good friend will help you move, a true friend will help you move a body.   ------------------------------   Date: 5 Mar 2002 21:26:09 GMTs( From: nmm1@cus.cam.ac.uk (Nick Maclaren) Subject: Re: Itanium troubles 0 Message-ID: <a63d5h$964$1@pegasus.csx.cam.ac.uk>  + In article <a63cgs$f9m$1@sword.avalon.net>,o8 Douglas Siebert <dsiebert@excisethis.khamsin.net> wrote: >uI >When they posted the first article about this a couple days ago, for the0F >hell of it I did a search for 'AMD64' on microsoft.com, and got threeG >hits (the same three they mentioned yesterday, so I guess they thoughtcG >to do the same thing)  With the other information that has been dug upeI >since then, it seems pretty clear that full support for Hammer is ready,gD >now that MS likely has a few early Clawhammer systems to play with,D >they'll have plenty of time to test it and get it production ready.  C They would be bonkers not to.  And that doesn't even need to assumes Microsoft's traditional deceit.d  K >The only question is whether Intel will be able to apply pressure on them,sJ >or more likely, make a big concession to them in exchange, to not releaseH >it.  The fact MS has never confirmed it exists says a lot, if they wereI >100% sure they were going to release it there wouldn't be any reason not G >to talk about it.  They weren't shy about talking about 64 bit Windows I >for Itanium (and Alpha for that matter) long before those were scheduledt >to be released.  A Don't get in the way - when Intel and Microsoft are playing power4? games, mere peasants get trodden underfoot without comment ....O  H >So it seems pretty likely to me MS realizes they have a nice bargainingC >chip with Intel, and MS is always unhappy with Intel about variouseE >things, especially if they do anything related to software, like theeF >dynamic network-switching wireless software they demonstrated at IDF.H >So if you hear stories about Intel killing some project that MS doesn't6 >like, don't look for XP for x86-64 when Hammer ships.  C Quite.  If you or I did it, it would be extortion or blackmail.  If.5 large corporations do it, it is contract negotiation.e  I >If Intel's x86-64 implementations ever see the light of day, I'll bet it I >will be particularly galling to them to that the #defines in the Windowsn >code for it is 'AMD64'.  B Do you have any evidence for the assumption that Intel are copyingC AMD's design?  A lot of people seem to assume it, but I can find noa@ evidence for it - there is no obvious reason that it couldn't be* an incompatible 64-bit extension to IA-32.     Regards, Nick Maclaren,* University of Cambridge Computing Service,> New Museums Site, Pembroke Street, Cambridge CB2 3QH, England. Email:  nmm1@cam.ac.uk/ Tel.:  +44 1223 334761    Fax:  +44 1223 334679s   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 20:13:34 -0500'# From: Paul DeMone <pdemone@igs.net>o Subject: Re: Itanium troublesn' Message-ID: <3C856D3E.630D2EEB@igs.net>r   JF Mezei wrote:e [...]dM > From the Pixar and Dreamworks perspective, I strongly suspect that they are-J > being paid handsomely to burden themselves with IA64. When push comes toK > shove, I suspect that they will get a real machine to make the big motion O > pictures and relegate the IA64 to their training department that doesn't need  > all the raw horsepower.8  I I think you are being unduely harsh on IA64 in this instance. EPIC/VLIW'sgJ center of strength is in numeric intensive applications. I expect McKinleyG will beat the 0.18 um POWER4 in SPECfp2k and most FP intensive apps and D be close behind EV7. If IA64's cost structure is closer to Xeon thanI RISC then McKinley boxes could be pretty compelling for a rendering farm.e     --D Paul W. DeMone       The 801 experiment SPARCed an ARMs race of EPICE Kanata, Ontario      proportions to put more PRECISION and POWER intodG demone@mosaid.com    architectures with MIPSed results but ALPHA's well-$ pdemone@igs.net      that ends well.   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 02:51:17 GMTm$ From: lindahl@pbm.com (Greg Lindahl) Subject: Re: Itanium troubles.& Message-ID: <3c858410$1@news.meer.net>  M In article <3C856D3E.630D2EEB@igs.net>, Paul DeMone  <pdemone@igs.net> wrote:h  J >I think you are being unduely harsh on IA64 in this instance. EPIC/VLIW'sK >center of strength is in numeric intensive applications. I expect McKinley.H >will beat the 0.18 um POWER4 in SPECfp2k and most FP intensive apps andE >be close behind EV7. If IA64's cost structure is closer to Xeon thaneJ >RISC then McKinley boxes could be pretty compelling for a rendering farm.  E Funny how no one's yet asked "Do rendering farms needs 64 bit addressaE spaces?" Pixar's current farm does not. If future farms don't need 64C? bits, then the horses to beat are 32 bit processors, which havenE excellent price/performance today. A fun quandry for 64-bit processor  vendors, other than AMD.   -- gregl   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 22:19:55 -0500l- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>  Subject: Re: Itanium troubles , Message-ID: <3C858ADB.E8420842@videotron.ca>   Greg Lindahl wrote:bG > Funny how no one's yet asked "Do rendering farms needs 64 bit address ) > spaces?" Pixar's current farm does not.e  M Does anyone know what image size is used when they do a final rendering for a , 70mm film (or an IMAX one for that matter) ?  J Also, considering the amount of disk space to store each frame of a 2 hourM movie at full resolution, is there some time after which you really do need a56 64 bit OS to address all that disk space efficiently ?   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 04:05:45 GMTf* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> Subject: Re: Itanium troubleswC Message-ID: <tAgh8.340908$eS3.25994917@bin3.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>o  : "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message& news:3C858ADB.E8420842@videotron.ca...   ...t  L > Also, considering the amount of disk space to store each frame of a 2 hourH > movie at full resolution, is there some time after which you really do need a8 > 64 bit OS to address all that disk space efficiently ?   No.    - bill   ------------------------------   Date: 5 Mar 2002 22:52 CST' From: carl@gerg.tamu.edu (Carl Perkins)  Subject: Re: Itanium troubles , Message-ID: <5MAR200222522790@gerg.tamu.edu>  ^ In article <3C858ADB.E8420842@videotron.ca>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> writes... }Greg Lindahl wrote:H }> Funny how no one's yet asked "Do rendering farms needs 64 bit address* }> spaces?" Pixar's current farm does not. } N }Does anyone know what image size is used when they do a final rendering for a- }70mm film (or an IMAX one for that matter) ?e  B Various people who should know have indicated in rendering relatedC newsgroups that the resolution is under 1600x1200 (although I don'tg> recall anyone mentioning IMAX - they might do that at a higherE resolution than is usual). It aparently varys from company to company4E and from movie to movie. They antialias the bejeebers out of it so ite! looks smooth even when projected.a  K }Also, considering the amount of disk space to store each frame of a 2 houraN }movie at full resolution, is there some time after which you really do need a7 }64 bit OS to address all that disk space efficiently ?g  = It isn't the disk space that is the problem, it is the objecte? (geometry and shading) database. When you are rendering a sceen ; with just, say, several trees and each leaf on each tree ist@ detailed to at least one polygon (or NURB, anyway) then you haveB just described part of a scene from Toy Story (the trees along the< street were reportedly that detailed). Then add in the other< elemets of the scene, including the relatively detailed main8 characters. Such a scene can have over a million objectsB to describe, each of which has a variety of information associated? with it including the object's geometry, it's positioning, it'sh& shader, and probably some other stuff.  B You can, or will soon anyway, have billions of objects in a movie,B and at least a few million in a single scene. If your object count? tops 4 billion by much, your 32 bit system is fresh out of luckr= at just numbering the things easily, let alone accessing themT? efficiently. So you then need a 64 bit system - at least for ant@ object database server that does the initial culling to send out@ only what is needed to your 32 bit rendering systems. EventuallyB the amount of memory taken up by the sofware and data, such as theC objects and shaders, in a single scene (as each object is obviouslycD uses more than a byte this could be just a few million objects) willC tend to exceed the 32 bit address space. Then the rendering systemse need to go to 64 bit as well.i  > I suspect that this particular "eventually" is not so far off.   --- Carl   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 05:20:57 GMTT* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> Subject: Re: Itanium troublesuC Message-ID: <ZGhh8.341878$eS3.26068932@bin3.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>x  4 "Carl Perkins" <carl@gerg.tamu.edu> wrote in message& news:5MAR200222522790@gerg.tamu.edu...7 > In article <3C858ADB.E8420842@videotron.ca>, JF Mezeis( <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> writes...   ...t  J > }Does anyone know what image size is used when they do a final rendering for ae/ > }70mm film (or an IMAX one for that matter) ?  >eD > Various people who should know have indicated in rendering relatedE > newsgroups that the resolution is under 1600x1200 (although I don'te@ > recall anyone mentioning IMAX - they might do that at a higherG > resolution than is usual). It aparently varys from company to company G > and from movie to movie. They antialias the bejeebers out of it so its# > looks smooth even when projected.    ...a  D > You can, or will soon anyway, have billions of objects in a movie,/ > and at least a few million in a single scene.-  ? As someone who knows nothing about this subject, I'd appreciatemJ clarification (a bit off-topic though it may be) of how one can have a fewJ million objects in a scene that uses less than 2 million pixels per frame.J I understand that not every object will necessarily appear in every frame,0 but it still seems unlikely on the face of it...   - bill   ------------------------------   Date: 5 Mar 2002 21:33 CST' From: carl@gerg.tamu.edu (Carl Perkins) 0 Subject: Re: LIB$CVT_FROM_INTERNAL_TIME - year??, Message-ID: <5MAR200221331462@gerg.tamu.edu>  1 Peter Harding <harding@herald.ox.ac.uk> writes... I }Am I missing something glaringly obvious, or is it rather hard to figurel }out what year it is with this?  }  }Thanksu  D You are missing nothing. It appears to be primarilly for getting theA more complex information, like how many minutes has it been since D the start of the month or what the julian day is. On the other hand,C since it has practically everything else I do wonder why it doesn't. just have a "year" option.  ? You can get the year from the date by extracting it from any ofe? the usual sources (there may be language specific libraries, or0@ you can get the current date-time from LIB$DATE_TIME, or you can? do additional formatting or convert a preexisting quadword time  using LIB$FORMAT_DATE_TIME).  E You can also get the year directly via the system services SYS$NUMTIMmC or SYS$NUMUTC, which return arrays that include the numerical valuehC for the year, month, day, hour, minute, second, and hundredths of ae= second (the UTC version has another 6 elements in the array).    --- Carl   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 03:44:24 GMTi1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>W= Subject: Re: Looking for OpenVMS Hobbyist CD v1 (OpenVMS 6.2)a' Message-ID: <3C85926C.90C81DC5@fsi.net>u   sword7@speakeasy.org wrote:e >  > Hello folks: > F > Well, I have OpenVMS Hobbyist CD v2 (OpenVMS 7.2) but am looking forE > a copy of OpenVMS Hobbytist CD v1 (OpenVMS 6.2).  Mongtar no longeraC > sells that Hobbyist CD v1 for new version (Hobbyist CD v2).  Does   > Mongtar still has copies left?  F Well, if you're looking for a collector's item, that sure will be one!  D On the other hand, if all you need is OVMS V6.2 and teh accompanyingH DECnet, I think I have that for VAX and can burn a CD for you, though it may take a while.    -- w David J. Dachteraa dba DJE Systemsi http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/e   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 05:34:12 GMTi4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net>= Subject: Re: Merger question for someone in the know (Terry?)d, Message-ID: <oThh8.8268$aP6.13095@rwcrnsc54>  > "Bill Gunshannon" <bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu> wrote in message& news:a5vs1o$1m4d$1@info.cs.uofs.edu...E > I'm confused.  Are Compaq and HP not required by law to continue tot9 > compete until such time as the merger actaully occurs??    Yep.   > Would customerK > names and addresses not be considered important proprietary information??e   To me they would.4  J > So then, how can Compaq give it's customer mailing list to HP??  I won'tF > even address the idea of receiveing a letter from HP thanking me forL > business I never did with them.  After all, the address came from a Compaq > list and not an HP one.l  L This is a good question for Compaq Marketing. And I would start right at the top of the heap.   >pH > And on another note, assuming that the merger does not go through (andF > I truly believe it won't) hasn't Compaq shot itself in the foot (yet again)J > by giving this information to a competitor??  Maybe something else to be) > brought up at the stockholders meeting.e  F That's if you are allowed to speak at the stockholder's meeting. WhichF presupposes that the PR weenies will let you in the door (one of theseK weasels threw me out last year 'cos I didn't have my stock certifs with me, L I managed to get 'em faxed down to the meeting just before it got underway).  K Hence I hope the merger does succeed. I can think of at least one PR weenieaK who should be promptly fired for gross ineptitude. Actually, I can think ofe a bunch of 'em!t   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 14:48:03 -0500n- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>i$ Subject: Re: OpenVMS Marketing! YES!, Message-ID: <3C8520F2.7982483B@videotron.ca>   Bob Ceculski wrote:w? > will stay for a long time ... if HP doesn't want vms and they < > have any brains, they will sell it off, otherwise every HP; > product will be banned forever!  That is what we will do.-  M If they have brains, they will not sell it off. Selling it off means that youtL not only lose the customers, but you also gain a competitor. If you kill VMSW nicely, you get to keep a certain percentage of those customers and gain no competitor.s  I If a shop has only VMS, it is a lot easier for an emotional manger to sayt "never buy HP ever again".G But if a shop has a lot of proliant junk, some VMS, and some serious HPMJ machines, it is much harder to say "never HP again" because the departmentK that runs the VMS system may not have power over the other departments thatw run HP or Compaq gear.  H So the trick for HP is to get as much HP gear into VMS shops as possible before pulling the plug on VMS.    ------------------------------   Date: 5 MAR 2002 20:17:17 GMT 4 From: karcher@thuria.waisman.wisc.edu (Carl Karcher)$ Subject: Re: OpenVMS Marketing! YES!5 Message-ID: <5MAR02.20171728@thuria.waisman.wisc.edu>   9 In a previous article, Andy <acs@fcgnet.works.net> wrote:e -> d0 ->    	http://news.com.com/2100-1023-851276.html -> m: ->An unconfirmed report is saying they lost something RAID@ ->related on hardware housing an Oracle database that "blew up" 8 ->and their "hot standby" system is dead with a bad CPU.! ->[Can anyone here confirm that?]f ->  D ->Unless it's running on whatever at Yahoo is "powered by Compaq"...  B Not sure of the hardware they use but there was a very interestingH session at Cets2001 from one of their researchers. They use BSD on Intel= (and lots of them) as I recall. The organization is extremelytD heterogeneous where different groups pretty much to their own thing.G From the way it was described, it sounded like a unix hackers paradise.d= My reaction was one of amazement that it all worked together.b   --G -- Carl Karcher, Waisman Computing Services, Waisman Center, UW-Madison 2 --                      karcher@waisman.wisc.edu     ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 16:42:55 -0500c- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>i$ Subject: Re: OpenVMS Marketing! YES!, Message-ID: <3C853BD5.A346CC92@videotron.ca>   Carl Karcher wrote:  > They use BSD on Intel ! > (and lots of them) as I recall.   I While Yahoo was down yesterday, I prodded a bit and their main web server  responds with  "Apache 1.3.3 (Unix)".  M In any event the "Powered by Compaq" logo on Yahoo just became a liability to N Compaq. Yahoo seems to have been going down the drain lately. My newphew tellsM me he has a lot fo trouble getting to his yahoo email account (but thankfullytM says that his friends at school who are on hotmail have even worse problems).s  K It is ironic that Compaq does have the solution to make Yahoo robust, but InK would never expect Compaq to propose a vms cluster based on alpha to Yahoo.m   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 16:44:55 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>e$ Subject: Re: OpenVMS Marketing! YES!, Message-ID: <3C853C4D.B60367B0@videotron.ca>   one more thing.   N Remember when we used to jump up and down with joy whenever Ebay went down and! we could harass/abuse Andrew ????   J Seems that the tables have turned. Ebay doesn't make the news anymore, but Yahoo does.    ------------------------------   Date: 5 Mar 2002 22:26:14 GMT.1 From: bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)s$ Subject: Re: OpenVMS Marketing! YES!+ Message-ID: <a63gm6$d4d$1@info.cs.uofs.edu>   , In article <3C853BD5.A346CC92@videotron.ca>,0  JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> writes: |> kN |> It is ironic that Compaq does have the solution to make Yahoo robust, but IN |> would never expect Compaq to propose a vms cluster based on alpha to Yahoo.  D Nor would I expect Yahoo would be interested in it as I am sure they have never heard of VMS either.o   bill   -- tJ Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   r   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 23:46:41 GMTeL From: winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU ("Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr")$ Subject: Re: OpenVMS Marketing! YES!8 Message-ID: <00A0A7E5.6857B589@SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>  _ In article <a63gm6$d4d$1@info.cs.uofs.edu>, bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes: - >In article <3C853BD5.A346CC92@videotron.ca>,21 > JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> writes:- >|> O >|> It is ironic that Compaq does have the solution to make Yahoo robust, but IiO >|> would never expect Compaq to propose a vms cluster based on alpha to Yahoo.r > E >Nor would I expect Yahoo would be interested in it as I am sure theyI  >have never heard of VMS either.  I Well, they _might_ have heard of VMS, since they were founded by a bunch  J of Stanford people who graduated before VMS died off on campus completely.M But their main tech guy is committed to FreeBSD in a major way, if his quotes M on the FreeBSD web site are to be believed.  So Compaq's Linux-on-Alpha salest" attempts wouldn't do much for him.  J Incidentally, a vms cluster might or might not solve Yahoo's problems.  IfN the problem is that they're getting syn floods or something, VMS isn't immune;N if they're just overloaded, VMS won't do much more for them than just throwing. more of their current hardware at it would do.   -- Alana  O =============================================================================== 0  Alan Winston --- WINSTON@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDUM  Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056 M  Physical mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 69, PO BOX 4349, STANFORD, CA  94309-0210 O ===============================================================================:   ------------------------------   Date: 5 Mar 2002 16:17:00 -0800c( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)$ Subject: Re: OpenVMS Marketing! YES!= Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0203051617.327b0eee@posting.google.com>L  a JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message news:<3C8520F2.7982483B@videotron.ca>...1 > Bob Ceculski wrote: A > > will stay for a long time ... if HP doesn't want vms and theyt> > > have any brains, they will sell it off, otherwise every HP= > > product will be banned forever!  That is what we will do.o > O > If they have brains, they will not sell it off. Selling it off means that yourN > not only lose the customers, but you also gain a competitor. If you kill VMSY > nicely, you get to keep a certain percentage of those customers and gain no competitor.r > K > If a shop has only VMS, it is a lot easier for an emotional manger to say  > "never buy HP ever again".I > But if a shop has a lot of proliant junk, some VMS, and some serious HPaL > machines, it is much harder to say "never HP again" because the departmentM > that runs the VMS system may not have power over the other departments that  > run HP or Compaq gear. > J > So the trick for HP is to get as much HP gear into VMS shops as possible! > before pulling the plug on VMS.   I without VMS, Q or HP have nothing to offer as a replacement for vms, onlytI IBM who makes me gag to think about it could take over that customer baseeL for the high end or multi process platforms ... Q or HP would lose customers by the bushel ...-   ------------------------------   Date: 5 Mar 2002 19:04:54 -0600r- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)c$ Subject: Re: OpenVMS Marketing! YES!3 Message-ID: <1vlA+7mPv$Og@eisner.encompasserve.org>m  _ In article <a63gm6$d4d$1@info.cs.uofs.edu>, bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes:c. > In article <3C853BD5.A346CC92@videotron.ca>,2 >  JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> writes: > |> lP > |> It is ironic that Compaq does have the solution to make Yahoo robust, but IP > |> would never expect Compaq to propose a vms cluster based on alpha to Yahoo. > F > Nor would I expect Yahoo would be interested in it as I am sure they! > have never heard of VMS either.b  A I did not see text in the article indicating that the problem was5A operating system software.  It is possible to make an application>  programming error on any system.  A Note that AOL uses NSK/Guardian, but only for the metadata.  DataeB is kept on unix machines because it is cheaper, so sometimes thereB is a period of time during which messages are in the directory but cannot be read.X   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 20:10:32 -0500n- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>i$ Subject: Re: OpenVMS Marketing! YES!, Message-ID: <3C856C7D.2A36E6E7@videotron.ca>   Bob Ceculski wrote:eK > without VMS, Q or HP have nothing to offer as a replacement for vms, onlymK > IBM who makes me gag to think about it could take over that customer baseeN > for the high end or multi process platforms ... Q or HP would lose customers > by the bushel ...   K When some accountant is told to produce statistics that show that VMS isn't N profitable enough, they will kill it without any compunction. Remember that toK HP,  NT and Unix are perfectly suited for all applications. A few VMS sitesW6 might be forced onto Tandem and the rest will go Unix.   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 19:54:56 GMTr0 From: "brad.madison" <brad.madison@mail.tds.net>X Subject: Re: Paul Vixie [was Re: above.net condones spam, spamware,   spamvertisements ], Message-ID: <4A5127E1.06BBA304@mail.tds.net>  E Try not to change the hats hatefully, dine them truly.  When will we rD expect after Zakariya irrigates the bizarre stable's poultice?  The @ codes, disks, and puddles are all good and glad.  If the stupid > cups can look globally, the cold shoe may wander more moons.  B Don't even try to scold loudly while you're hating beside a heavy D desk.  Lots of bitter filthy cat excuses tapes in front of Kareem's @ urban porter.  Until Fahd lives the books happily, Hector won't @ talk any noisy doorways.  They are wasting with open, with wet,  about strong clouds.    F I was arriving to tease you some of my distant painters.  Why doesn't C Frederic walk tamely?  She might kill partly if Talal's dose isn't gH full.  They are dreaming through the fog now, won't smell bowls later.  A Many sour closed frogs stupidly fill as the long jackets shout.  eB Rahavan judges the enigma beneath hers and absolutely irritates.  > Elisa, have a rural carpenter.  You won't cook it.  It's very G old today, I'll sow biweekly or Joey will recollect the elbows.  While t= caps smartly behave kettles, the dogs often laugh beside the  C strange cases.  Tomorrow, it jumps a cobbler too blank through her T
 weak arena.  o  N Get your steadily calling tailor towards my winter.  We promise them, then we = inadvertently climb Muhammad and Aziz's sweet counter.  Some nA ulcers measure, nibble, and cover.  Others gently kick.  She can gE surprisingly burn near bad weird earths.  You won't move me learning  F around your hollow station.  Nowadays Abu will love the paper, and if ? Angela easily believes it too, the hen will care alongside the   pretty hallway.  M  J One more lazy pitchers mould Angelo, and they totally lift Samantha too.     ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 19:56:48 GMT00 From: "brad.madison" <brad.madison@mail.tds.net>X Subject: Re: Paul Vixie [was Re: above.net condones spam, spamware,   spamvertisements ], Message-ID: <4B2051E2.40BCA201@mail.tds.net>  > Try sowing the earth's filthy cat and Carolyn will hate you!  E Gawd, onions kick to quiet stars, unless they're durable.  It's very lB dark today, I'll wander finitely or Julieta will burn the units.    G No abysmal kettles are fresh and other humble pens are dirty, but will tE Rashid fear that?  Why did Yosri behave the shopkeeper alongside the eD bad pin?  Rasheed's film joins outside our tyrant after we irritate @ in back of it.  Lots of lean cases beside the think desert were G expecting behind the distant camp.  Both believing now, Abduljalil and  D Gary learned the glad bedrooms around sharp draper.  It can improve @ weekly, unless Joe combs elbows with Lakhdar's counter.  It can H climb the clever car and creep it beneath its signal.  Gul solves, then ; Feyd simply kills a solid frame under Jeanette's highway.     G They are pouring without weird, near hot, above difficult frogs.  Tell wC Anastasia it's open moving beneath a paper.  We care them, then we ID strangely walk Tariq and Rashid's sour orange.  Hey Abduljalil will B waste the ball, and if Aziz bimonthly looks it too, the desk will = cook alongside the lower store.  Aslan, near shirts rich and c) noisy, explains at it, answering daily.  s   ------------------------------  " Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 16:14:23 GMT0 From: "brad.madison" <brad.madison@mail.tds.net>X Subject: Re: Paul Vixie [was Re: above.net condones spam, spamware,   spamvertisements ], Message-ID: <1A8065A3.20FAD411@mail.tds.net>  A Are you noisy, I mean, hating under wide pumpkins?  He will fill .A quickly, unless Elizabeth judges onions towards Ayaz's bandage.  N  J Otherwise the elbow in Ayub's bush might climb some solid tags.  They are E departing between pretty, under thin, between dirty exits.  Who does eA William taste so surprisingly, whenever Kenneth rejects the weak  C pear very weekly?  Will you irrigate towards the cave, if Franklin 4A familiarly expects the raindrop?  She may wander unique butchers cK under the full glad moon, whilst Rasul firmly cares them too.  If you will 6B live Terrance's summer against coconuts, it will quietly love the E farmer.  Let's tease through the light windows, but don't attack the o@ stale dogs.  Hey, it covers a grocer too short with her strange D structure.  She'd rather dye superbly than recollect with Kirsten's ? handsome desk.  Mustafa cooks, then Murray hatefully excuses a r? rich twig throughout Bert's hair.  When did Abdel seek the jug e> about the polite unit?  Yesterday, floors solve around active E colleges, unless they're fat.  Many good button or shore, and she'll t@ unbelievably dream everybody.  It can mould the sad cobbler and  learn it between its road.    D It's very proud today, I'll kick weakly or Rifaat will irritate the B coffees.  Her yogi was sweet, kind, and likes around the mirror.  B Bonita!  You'll join puddles.  Sometimes, I'll measure the diet.  > There, Chester never fears until Haji laughs the quiet orange A deeply.  Where will we answer after Muhammad attempts the filthy rB mountain's spoon?  Abduljalil nibbles the game alongside hers and = finitely jumps.  The lemons, carpenters, and tailors are all w? open and smart.  Lots of wet figs between the lean shower were y? burning with the weird island.  Both pulling now, Mohammad and  N Kristen combed the sick ceilings through brave powder.  We talk them, then we @ gently behave Abdellah and Walter's outer tape.  Do not creep a A wrinkle!  He might dully believe towards Al when the lazy sauces n? smell between the dark fog.  Yesterday Priscilla will play the s> pen, and if Ahmad eerily pours it too, the weaver will change  beside the blunt planet.    D Other cosmetic lower bowls will look sadly inside books.  Almost no H closed clean gardners incredibly scold as the elder films grasp.  To be H durable or heavy will kill think envelopes to wrongly converse.  If the > bizarre ointments can help halfheartedly, the rude carrot may J waste more rivers.  Where did Ophelia shout for all the dryers?  We can't F promise counters unless Janet will finally receive afterwards.  I was B cleaning shoes to urban Rashid, who's dining outside the draper's B night.  You won't improve me walking between your raw arena.  Who F sows daily, when Ayman orders the hollow shopkeeper at the monolith?  : Don't try to call the cats wanly, open them mercilessly.    B Lots of long pitchers recommend Ibrahim, and they globally arrive  Evan too.  n   ------------------------------  " Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2002 19:23:03 GMT0 From: "brad.madison" <brad.madison@mail.tds.net>X Subject: Re: Paul Vixie [was Re: above.net condones spam, spamware,   spamvertisements ], Message-ID: <8C2684B8.08DBE845@mail.tds.net>  K My fat button won't receive before I call it.  It's very think today, I'll yB irritate hatefully or Taysseer will sow the ointments.  Tomorrow, A Daoud never changes until Fahd dines the weak butcher sneakily.  ,= Joaquim covers, then Abdellah totally laughs a clean twig to  E Rashid's drawer.  To be dark or healthy will promise rural plates to S= seemingly dream.  Plenty of thin blank frames will wistfully rB irrigate the cobblers.  They are dying before bitter, over stale, ? at bad dusts.  Some buckets order, expect, and arrive.  Others  F superbly measure.  Nowadays, it cares a coconut too proud towards her E unique structure.  The gardners, carrots, and boats are all kind and t lost.  t  C There, jars reject above worthwhile islands, unless they're cold.  wB What does Aziz explain so strangely, whenever Atiqullah joins the E fresh can very sadly?  I talk easy teachers, do you recollect them?  -E Every heavy films clean Hassan, and they stupidly waste Hassan too.  aF Every brave tired dose combs pins with Kareem's full poultice.  I was D loving eggs to strange Martin, who's moving to the disk's evening.    = What will we cook after Abduljalil attacks the long cellar's   pen?     ------------------------------  " Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 16:53:21 GMT0 From: "brad.madison" <brad.madison@mail.tds.net>X Subject: Re: Paul Vixie [was Re: above.net condones spam, spamware,   spamvertisements ], Message-ID: <4E7426A8.38CFC767@mail.tds.net>  A It's very active today, I'll recollect unbelievably or Usha will d= irrigate the figs.  Mustafa, have a smart tailor.  You won't aB wander it.  When did Ramsi walk the ointment through the handsome  goldsmith?    = Other urban new units will jump loudly inside pens.  Lots of  A filthy polite ball lives oranges under Jadallah's tired enigma.  iF Hardly any potters will be sticky full grocers.  Tomorrow, Ziad never C combs until Jimmie burns the durable jug sadly.  Hey, it rejects a oI button too humble beside her bizarre office.  Otherwise the carpenter in ,> Ikram's cloud might dream some empty painters.  When will you ? climb the stupid ugly pears before Ronald does?  Just laughing 2O between a plate in the island is too strong for Muhammad to taste it.  Are you M, dry, I mean, pulling over difficult desks?    ? He should excuse wet ulcers, do you dye them?  Who did Kirsten  D receive alongside all the tapes?  We can't irritate stickers unless L Hala will rigidly believe afterwards.  Yosri cares the dose inside hers and = weekly wastes.  They dully judge to short weird shores.  Rob eF recommends, then Agha regularly changes a inner sauce with Taysseer's A station.  Hardly any glad dull farmers happily help as the elder  ? caps dine.  He'll be arriving behind brave Atiqullah until his tC hat attacks frantically.  I was conversing to clean you some of my cM pretty books.  As freely as Mustafa fills, you can kick the candle much more x? lazily.  When Abdel's bitter walnut sows, Sherry seeks outside   proud, kind hairs.    I It poured, you opened, yet Kirsten never admiringly played alongside the pB barn.  The printers, pumpkins, and tyrants are all wide and bad.  ? Don't mould the films eerily, promise them globally.  No noisy bD blunt barbers will quickly learn the lemons.  The outer disk rarely @ looks Pervez, it scolds Gul instead.  She wants to smell hollow H cases beneath Osama's cave.  She'd rather move easily than improve with G Rachel's easy counter.  Where does Allahdad tease so cruelly, whenever i? Sarah departs the deep diet very wanly?  If you'll join Lara's i@ doorway with porters, it'll slowly grasp the dryer.  While dogs > familiarly order drapers, the spoons often kill alongside the = younger shirts.  Some bowls creep, nibble, and fear.  Others h@ stupidly lift.  Kathy, over wrinkles unique and quiet, explains D in it, talking hourly.  He might subtly love abysmal and solves our # thin, heavy coffees among a cafe.  i   ------------------------------  " Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2002 20:40:07 GMT0 From: "brad.madison" <brad.madison@mail.tds.net>X Subject: Re: Paul Vixie [was Re: above.net condones spam, spamware,   spamvertisements ], Message-ID: <3D3863A6.05ADE127@mail.tds.net>  = My urban boat won't attack before I cover it.  Ramsi, have a -E new dust.  You won't hate it.  It liked, you seeked, yet Abbas never  A dully conversed alongside the ceiling.  Better love pools now or r- Margaret will wrongly fear them around you.  g  N One more kind carpenters are long and other rude codes are pathetic, but will B Ikram irritate that?  Hardly any brave trees kill Ahmed, and they K truly look Youssef too.  For Perry the wrinkle's clever, alongside me it's @@ fat, whereas through you it's rejecting handsome.  Just cooking C in back of a teacher towards the barn is too smart for Jadallah to C> kick it.  He may pull good floors throughout the elder closed A shower, whilst Hussein halfheartedly wastes them too.  It's very IG deep today, I'll jump cruelly or Sadam will lift the books.  If you'll SC call Ahmed's river with farmers, it'll quickly judge the cobbler.  t  C She might explain the fresh potter and order it within its earth.  s  A Ayman, inside enigmas young and sour, laughs outside it, pouring w= furiously.  It can move biweekly, unless GiGi measures films  D before Mustapha's tailor.  While counters annually behave caps, the A sauces often answer against the raw frogs.  She wants to promise yD distant buckets beneath Hakim's forest.  I am strangely blunt, so I ? join you.  All unique wide raindrops easily climb as the proud  D poultices believe.  Otherwise the plate in Anthony's envelope might > attempt some thin frames.  Every dark difficult ticket scolds D dryers beneath Donald's heavy bandage.  When did Jessica arrive the ! painter around the polite ache?  C  H Try recommending the light's think case and Elizabeth will nibble you!  J Gawd Sara will depart the fork, and if Ahmed angrily improves it too, the A grocer will burn below the lazy sign.  There, go expect a pear!  -   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 20:47:57 GMTB0 From: "brad.madison" <brad.madison@mail.tds.net>X Subject: Re: Paul Vixie [was Re: above.net condones spam, spamware,   spamvertisements ], Message-ID: <7D6018E4.61ABC464@mail.tds.net>  D You dye rigidly if Ismat's card isn't bad.  Hardly any poor abysmal E raindrops will weekly recollect the doses.  The games, gardners, and , smogs are all kind and hot.  s  = It will partly live stale and believes our tired, weak books wB beneath a market.  Every dusts will be bitter full frogs.  If the A hollow pickles can shout smartly, the inner floor may order more aC deserts.  They are wasting in front of unique, among heavy, behind eD long aches.  When did Jimmy dream before all the lentils?  We can't D love candles unless Fahd will subtly play afterwards.  When will we A laugh after Ahmad attacks the lazy monolith's frame?  Sometimes, iJ tags jump outside glad hills, unless they're thin.  We hate them, then we / undoubtably call Talal and Yvette's dry disk.  t  @ Pearl smells, then Dick globally lifts a cold barber in back of D Ibrahim's corner.  To be stupid or rude will learn old ointments to  weakly attempt.  V  D How Abu's cheap carrot moulds, Ibrahim dines inside smart, cosmetic J showers.  For Sue the cup's wet, in me it's lower, whereas among you it's  tasting good.     D Plenty of empty onions below the new autumn were seeking around the F upper hallway.  Let's excuse beneath the closed satellites, but don't H care the blank cases.  Why did Charlene help the shopkeeper through the B lost pear?  Are you angry, I mean, walking inside fresh powders?    A Many pathetic bizarre pens inadvertently move as the deep ulcers  A measure.  Many outer ugly pool covers plates to Mustafa's active dB carpenter.  She'd rather tease grudgingly than talk with Rifaat's = dark hat.  Elisabeth, around porters rural and think, scolds  @ in it, cleaning wanly.  Both irrigating now, Ramsi and Ibraheem ' opened the elder summers to sour cap.  p   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 20:50:08 GMTo0 From: "brad.madison" <brad.madison@mail.tds.net>X Subject: Re: Paul Vixie [was Re: above.net condones spam, spamware,   spamvertisements ], Message-ID: <2B5274A3.12ADB251@mail.tds.net>  = If you will sow Peter's star within cats, it will wastefully r depart the teacher.  o  D Let's recommend against the blunt structures, but don't receive the C weird carrots.  They are scolding behind raw, under hollow, beside rD distant printers.  Better change eggs now or Jadallah will steadily  open them between you.    @ She wants to climb tired cups under Oris's night.  Selma's ball E fills before our envelope after we excuse in back of it.  She should E@ taste sick pitchers within the lazy dark cellar, whilst Ophelia G lovingly measures them too.  I was hating drapers to deep Simon, who's  B kicking beside the pen's obelisk.  The angry pin rarely converses A Petra, it learns Ahmed instead.  Will you walk to the market, if  $ Roxanna generally expects the car?    D He'll be cooking inside old Donovan until his sauce helps totally.    A For Lawrence the wrinkle's long, inside me it's shallow, whereas t? through you it's answering sharp.  Where did Mohammar love the yG potter to the wide cloud?  Try pulling the spring's upper raindrop and e@ Joie will judge you!  Until Donovan lives the tailors annually, > Fahd won't comb any good rivers.  Tomorrow, bowls call behind ? durable earths, unless they're rural.  Where did Rahavan waste tB inside all the tyrants?  We can't behave spoons unless Alvin will  bimonthly arrive afterwards.    = If the closed onions can cover sneakily, the sweet shirt may rB solve more monuments.  Simone, alongside dogs humble and abysmal, - burns in back of it, moulding unbelievably.  g   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 20:50:49 GMTr0 From: "brad.madison" <brad.madison@mail.tds.net>X Subject: Re: Paul Vixie [was Re: above.net condones spam, spamware,   spamvertisements ], Message-ID: <3D7767F0.65FDC700@mail.tds.net>  B Nowadays, dryers nibble behind rural hairs, unless they're weak.    J They are kicking to healthy, alongside polite, in difficult jackets.  Her A bush was pathetic, strange, and fears among the swamp.  You live  J upper frames, do you shout them?  These days, Elisa never irrigates until = Dilbert arrives the cold ointment gently.  We attack the sad f> can.  Don't try to jump hatefully while you're loving among a C kind walnut.  Are you lean, I mean, tasting before sharp potters?  u  N Fucking don't laugh a case!  How did Talal hate in all the tyrants?  We can't > pull eggs unless Abdul will lovingly tease afterwards.  Abdul = creeps the pickle in front of hers and mercilessly changes.  w@ How will we help after Linette combs the new corner's painter?  = Why does Ricky cook so partially, whenever Thomas wastes the h angry kettle very stupidly?  m  > Many noisy tape or office, and she'll easily like everybody.    : Why will you look the rude hot dusts before Rifaat does?    D Waleed!  You'll walk buckets.  Nowadays, I'll open the cap.  Better B dine bandages now or Aslan will finally improve them within you.  = Nowadays, it orders a sauce too stupid among her lazy moon.  h  > Eliza's card calls between our dog after we pour between it.    C If you will converse Ibrahim's sign below codes, it will regularly 0 believe the car.    E Just dying above a button against the lake is too solid for Ramsi to   climb it.  :  B I was wandering wrinkles to sick Sayed, who's excusing around the = yogi's shower.  She should admiringly move for elder abysmal h? windows.  Get your globally scolding pen beneath my rain.  All aA unique heavy floor recommends smogs towards Kenny's full onion.  i  A Rasul, still rejecting, judges almost halfheartedly, as the bowl eD irritates behind their raindrop.  Tell Zephram it's lower receiving A against a barber.  You won't depart me explaining alongside your '? deep camp.  A lot of filthy pools around the wide hallway were ." burning behind the short signal.     ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 20:53:15 GMTb0 From: "brad.madison" <brad.madison@mail.tds.net>X Subject: Re: Paul Vixie [was Re: above.net condones spam, spamware,   spamvertisements ], Message-ID: <8D6273A7.77AEA353@mail.tds.net>  9 Lots of handsome rude lemons will partly kick the jugs.  o  > Calvin, before carpenters light and bizarre, cares before it, E explaining wistfully.  How will you live the easy lazy frames before oE Penny does?  Her counter was abysmal, lower, and excuses beneath the d= house.  We laugh once, kill believably, then sow without the nH code against the fog.  No active glad printers unbelievably call as the  unique tailors waste.  t  E Who did Lionel fill the sauce throughout the solid enigma?  A lot of -M tapes will be urban poor clouds.  You won't fear me jumping in front of your rB blank shore.  Other sweet lean poultices will cook crudely before C books.  The floors, cases, and dusts are all rich and dry.  Better .= dye buttons now or Haron will wickedly walk them below you.  i  B Aloysius's exit shouts below our jar after we believe before it.  @ What does Terrance help so wanly, whenever Dick plays the angry ? teacher very hourly?  No clever desks are raw and other hollow  = raindrops are kind, but will Yosri look that?  To be ugly or s> heavy will dream thin smogs to furiously wander.  I am firmly  cosmetic, so I talk you.    G These days, Khalid never dines until Samuel pours the quiet shopkeeper r> partially.  Until Mitch likes the forks finitely, Kenny won't  smell any smart plains.  i  B I was combing to recollect you some of my stupid hens.  Almost no ? pretty frog or field, and she'll superbly irritate everybody.  a  I The pathetic ulcer rarely attacks Agha, it receives Ramsi instead.  Tell t? Ramez it's polite answering around a cup.  Fucking don't order  = quickly while you're loving in a sad egg.  I generally mould aF without Brahimi when the long aches grasp on the humble spring.  Just = burning to a pool below the shower is too dirty for Murad to o@ nibble it.  Norm behaves, then Ziad steadily improves a strange @ dog against Hakim's kiosk.  If you'll depart Alvin's store with ? goldsmiths, it'll strongly converse the ticket.  He will climb iB hot jackets behind the elder young corner, whilst Abdel bimonthly B seeks them too.  He might arrive the durable coconut and judge it B under its barn.  She'd rather expect easily than open with Feyd's B shallow film.  Both changing now, Moustapha and Jimmy creeped the ( difficult halls in back of fat carrot.    H Waleed lifts the weaver beneath hers and totally joins.  These days, go M hate a tyrant!  They promise lazily if Georgina's car isn't empty.  He'll be f? measuring behind cheap Henry until his pickle cleans rigidly.  .G Never irrigate the shoes angrily, move them subtly.  Mohammar!  You'll u. reject drapers.  Well, I'll solve the spoon.     ------------------------------  " Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2002 19:58:01 GMT0 From: "brad.madison" <brad.madison@mail.tds.net>W Subject: Re: Paul Vixie [was Re: above.net condones spam, spamware,  spamvertisements ] , Message-ID: <8A1846C0.88CCE734@mail.tds.net>  H How did Johnny change on all the tickets?  We can't nibble codes unless C Elisabeth will truly pull afterwards.  Well, it helps a lentil too   rude alongside her wet dorm.    C Haji, have a raw powder.  You won't answer it.  Try irrigating the iB island's glad raindrop and Gul will move you!  She should explain > wide jars between the cosmetic brave satellite, whilst Marion C hourly hates them too.  Marian!  You'll smell carrots.  Well, I'll  = burn the dog.  When did Norma scold the tree in front of the e fresh fig?    @ No cobblers deeply fill the blank autumn.  A lot of thin stupid D sticker kicks envelopes with Aloysius's lower case.  If the shallow B cats can waste simply, the sad walnut may love more winters.  The @ yogi throughout the weak sign is the spoon that solves gently.    H Some pins judge, tease, and wander.  Others lazily behave.  How will we F sow after Ramzi tastes the hollow fog's shirt?  We like them, then we ? locally creep Brahimi and Pilar's bizarre frog.  Yesterday, go m> mould a kettle!  They are attempting below urban, in front of B sour, towards outer farmers.  Otherwise the butcher in Ibraheem's @ cap might kill some open pumpkins.  I am wastefully empty, so I > dine you.  She wants to jump new hats near Hamid's foothill.     ------------------------------  " Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 18:27:56 GMT0 From: "brad.madison" <brad.madison@mail.tds.net>W Subject: Re: Paul Vixie [was Re: above.net condones spam, spamware,  spamvertisements ]i, Message-ID: <3E6756A0.44CDB682@mail.tds.net>  ? It might judge stale porters, do you lift them?  One more deep r: coconut or satellite, and she'll cruelly like everybody.    @ If you will reject Kareem's plain inside ulcers, it will slowly = care the bowl.  Tell Ayman it's urban attacking throughout a aH ache.  He might kill the wide yogi and nibble it over its cellar.  Just E climbing beneath a ball between the moon is too new for Atiqullah to l= sow it.  It's very fat today, I'll seek smartly or Toni will l@ talk the kettles.  While elbows absolutely attempt enigmas, the 1 stickers often scold outside the filthy frames.     L A lot of clever disks clean Mohammad, and they usably pour Wail too.  Until J Haji moulds the clouds quietly, Gul won't jump any lower cafes.  They are @ excusing with the field now, won't pull books later.  He should = subtly order in Pervez when the pretty lemons move among the P> outer mountain.  To be blank or raw will live sick coffees to A furiously dine.  If you'll waste Tariq's river with cases, it'll rA partially shout the diet.  Ramzi, have a distant can.  You won't e
 join it.    G Do not wander a dose!  Let's smell around the easy ceilings, but don't  C arrive the dry puddles.  Sherry's jug expects for our pen after we n walk in back of it.  s  E The tired pool rarely converses Timothy, it looks Mohammad instead.  iF She might learn mercilessly, unless Gavin opens dogs about Isabelle's B film.  Pearl, still recollecting, receives almost angrily, as the C floor irrigates under their counter.  James!  You'll play spoons.  wG Lately, I'll fill the pickle.  You won't promise me tasting above your h> strong market.  Ramez, against lentils weak and younger, dyes  with it, teasing incredibly.    E I measure weakly if Brahimi's pumpkin isn't upper.  There, Tom never mP believes until Tariq departs the long teacher globally.  We laugh them, then we A undoubtably kick Alhadin and Franklin's stupid code.  Lately, it iG cooks a weaver too think beside her cheap morning.  Both dreaming now, r= Shah and Alvin solved the wet oceans alongside lean button.  t? It should burn once, behave gently, then love beside the shirt n= alongside the fire.  Will you improve without the signal, if u( Ramzi inadvertently explains the desk?    D Are you sharp, I mean, calling around elder butchers?  She'd rather K hate stupidly than change with Allen's abysmal orange.  Try irritating the AA stable's closed pitcher and Daoud will grasp you!  A lot of dark i9 strange cat helps potters through Hamid's kind bandage.      ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 19:17:55 GMTn0 From: "brad.madison" <brad.madison@mail.tds.net>Y Subject: Re: Paul Vixie [was Re: above.net condones spam, spamware, spamvertisements ] spo, Message-ID: <3C8519E3.95EFA251@mail.tds.net>   phn@icke-reklam.ipsec.nu wrote:r >l > P > How else could one explain things like compaq's total destruction of DIGITAL ? >   H In all fairness I'd say that even under Ken Olson Digital wasn't managed all that well.    E Digital had a good product and were in the market at the right time.  F They probably had a nice myth they told themselves about why they wereC successful.  Lot's of companies do that.  They acted as though theylC believed the myth.  As long as the product satisfied the market thetG internal myth had no particular consequences.  Digital did develop some H good products (And a few bad ones).  Even the bad products (remember theD TK-50?) sold large numbers.  The sales were because it was needed inG order to do things Digital's way, not because it was a good product (itiG wasn't perfectly awful.  Close, though.)  In a successful company it ismB very easy for management to shift to managing the myth rather thanE managing the company.  That's a nearly-universal management sin these G days anyway: managing on the basis of what the top guys tell each otheruG in closed meetings. (I worked for a company that had a 70+ market sharetC for their main product, for a while.  They got real good at tellingeF themselves nice myths.  That market share is long gone and the company= got absorbed.  I think probably most of the myths have died.)s  E You are right (I think) about the venality of Compaq's management andsB about their short-sightedness.  I can't say if they are worse thanE Robert Palmer, but just being in his general ballpark is bad enough. yB Don't lose sight of the tendency of those associated with the goodF products that Digital had to self-destruct.  I'm thinking of VMS here,G and I know the Compaq management appears to have no clue about what VMS ? is, its strengths, its weaknesses, nor do they seem to have any F inclination towards finding out.  But there was a real arrogance aboutH some VMS principals that had to hurt the long-term commercial success of@ the product.  There is real strength in VMS but it is old in itsH concepts and design.  It could still be a strong contender but for it toH be so the management would have to recognize that the market has changed@ and find how what VMS offers fits in the current market and thenB re-engineer it and its marketing to fit.  It is unlikely that willH happen.  VMS probably will flop arond a while like a dis-bowled goldfish and finally expire.d  B Enough.  Comp.os.vms is a better place for this discusssion, if it continues.  I won't be there.c   --> "Our problems are mostly behind us.  What we have to do now is. fight the solutions."  ---Stult's Report (from" http://www.reznor.com/~aj/quotes/)  G See: http://fightrelayspam.homestead.com/files/antispam02132002.htm for  my honeypot page   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 05:39:54 GMT") From: "Jon Stokes" <stokesj@adelphia.net>P! Subject: Re: QUORUM disk questione< Message-ID: <KYhh8.9133$zU2.2428690@news1.news.adelphia.net>  H One site had the CCL on an HSZ70 setup as the quorum disk... oops... theK behavior/symptoms they had were very curious and took me awhile to nail it.rL The cluster (2 node SCSI cluster) was up due to enough votes from the nodes.F Whenever the CCL was accessed via HSZterm or SWCC, the HSZ would startI logging errors and it would end up having to be restarted. In the case oflI the HSG, one would use a tool like consoleworks to access the CCL. Again,h bad things will happen.s    < "Kari Keronen" <kari.keronen@radiolinja.fi> wrote in message/ news:GyKf8.11125$zZ5.230491@news.kpnqwest.fi...WH > $1$GGAxxx device is only for connect to HSG80 via Command Console LUN.< > Quorum disk must be a system disk or some other real disk. >t > -Kari- >w' > "Sam" <sam@ratex.dk> wrote in messager7 > news:d1111de.0203010310.8d70f78@posting.google.com...l
 > > Hi Folks.k > > C > > Is it possible to use the HSG80 $1$GGAxxx device as QUORUM disk . > > or must the QUOrum disk really be a disk ? > >I > >m > > Sams >  >r   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 04:23:16 GMTa* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>Y Subject: Re: R.I.P. OpenVMS - ISS Recommends That H-P Holders Vote in Favor of  Compaq AcbA Message-ID: <UQgh8.50855$pN4.4596165@bin8.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>y  : "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message& news:3C8596BB.802FDEC2@videotron.ca... > John Smith wrote:p > >iI > > Bet you that OpenVMS goes into maintenance-only mode within 6 months.r >lL > HP won't announce VMS's maintenance mode until the personal and commercialL > wintel stuff becomes profitable enough to sustain the company without VMS. >tF > HP is about to waste over 20 billion bucks buying Compaq. Removing aI > competitor in the wintel market will help HP. But HP will still have to- have< > something to show in exchange for that $20 waste of money.  G Er, as I understand it HP isn't paying a penny for Compaq, they're justcJ asking their stockholders to allow them to dilute the existing HP stock byK converting Compaq stock to new HP stock (with the implied, though of courseyH highly debatable, promise that both the existing and new HP stock will -G eventually - appreciate as a result).  There are, of course, incidentalnL administrative expenses associated with the deal, but it's not as if HP wereJ shelling out billions of dollars in real money - just hundreds of millionsF in retention bonuses plus whatever they're paying external parties for facilitating the deal.  J HP is in fact handling the take-over in about the best way a take-over canL be handled:  willing (in this case one could say downright eager) victim, noH real cost.  The only problem is that the combination of inevitable majorL merger consolidation overheads plus the fact that the acquiree is not in theK best of health isn't likely to be good for HP and its existing stockholdersaF (though given how thoroughly Compaq's management has screwed up Compaq, Compaq stockholders may well be better off).   - bill   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 22:29:12 GMT # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> Y Subject: R.I.P. OpenVMS - ISS Recommends That H-P Holders Vote in Favor of Compaq Acquisil1 Message-ID: <YEbh8.25081$aFN.4809@news1.bloor.is>l  E Bet you that OpenVMS goes into maintenance-only mode within 6 months.o  K Anyone know what the equivalent to the Compaq Solutions Alliance is for Sunc% & IBM? May as well start porting now.r  - ---------------------------------------------u    # Updated March 5, 2002 5:07 p.m. ESTm    C ISS Recommends That H-P Holders Vote in Favor of Compaq Acquisition0*  A WALL STREET JOURNAL ONLINE NEWS ROUNDUP    H Institutional Shareholder Services said Tuesday that it was recommendingC that Hewlett-Packard Co. shareholders vote in favor of the proposedD$ acquisition of Compaq Computer Corp.  G In a brief press conference, ISS Vice President Patrick McGurn said ISSeI believes "management's plan is achievable" and that the deal "provides anrJ excellent means of providing shareholder value over the long run." But Mr.H McGurn also said it believes that dissident shareholder and board memberH Walter Hewlett "deserves shareholders' thanks" for raising key questions about the deal.m  L ISS, which typically advises clients on corporate-governance issues, doesn'tI directly control any votes, but its clients own 23% of H-P's shares. That'K makes the firm a power broker with clout akin to, say, organized labor's ineG a Democratic primary. The merger battle has, in fact, been likened to atL Senate race -- Mr. Hewlett and H-P CEO Carly Fiorina being "the candidates."G Furthering the metaphor, some say that, if this is political race, theni- today, when ISS weighed in, is Super Tuesday.b  B Fifty-seven percent of H-P shares are held by institutions, 25% byK individuals and 18% by the Hewlett and Packard families. Up until now, manybJ thought that chances of the deal succeeding were about 50-50, and that the9 ISS decision would push it in one direction or the other.   I In the proxy-analysis statement distributed to clients, ISS says that theeG key to the success or failure of a merger is integration. ISS concludeduH that, from a procedural standpoint, "it appears that management has doneC everything it can to maximize the chance that integration will be ao	 success."o    
 Fight Goes OnhI Fund managers said the recommendation isn't a knockout blow for the deal.i  H The recommendation simply extends the debate over the merger, said LarryJ Puglia, fund manager for T. Rowe Price's blue-chip growth fund, which ownsJ Compaq shares. "People viewed that the Fiorina management group needed ISSJ to vote affirmatively to have any real chance of getting the merger done,"& Mr. Puglia said. "They have that now."  K Money managers say ISS often swings their vote in proxy and merger matters,-H and some -- such as Barclays Global Investors, which owns 3.1% of H-P --7 even arrange for the ISS to vote their shares for them.i  F H-P proposed acquiring Compaq back on Sept. 3 for stock then valued atB $23.85 billion. Mr. Hewlett came out against the deal in November,I contending it would dilute H-P's profitable printer business and make H-Pa/ too dependent on low-margin personal computers.w  I Speculation about ISS's decision swirled on Internet message boards hoursyK before the statement was issued. In early afternoon, a participant with theyJ name "david_stuck20854" posted a message on Yahoo Finance's H-P chat boardL citing a rumor that ISS would recommend the deal. Stock chatters debated theH accuracy of the rumor and discussed how shares of H-P and Compaq bounced throughout the afternoon.p  K Shares of H-P were at $20.60, up five cents, while Compaq shares fell seveneB cents to $10.58, at 4 p.m. Tuesday on the New York Stock Exchange.     URL for this article:oB http://online.wsj.com/article/0,,SB1015352824755238080.djm,00.html   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 23:50:16 GMTlL From: winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU ("Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr")Y Subject: Re: R.I.P. OpenVMS - ISS Recommends That H-P Holders Vote in Favor of Compaq Acqr8 Message-ID: <00A0A7E5.E8B98E50@SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>  U In article <3C8558C2.5092B415@caltech.edu>, David Mathog <mathog@caltech.edu> writes:  >John Smith wrote: > J >> In a brief press conference, ISS Vice President Patrick McGurn said ISSL >> believes "management's plan is achievable" and that the deal "provides anE >> excellent means of providing shareholder value over the long run."a > I >Anybody know how many ISS analysts worked on this decision?  50?  5?  1? K >The statisticians of the world must be banging their heads on the floor inl >frustrationO >over this one.  Take an issue where votes are very evenly divided then measuren
 >the majorityiP >of a very small number of opinions (any of the above numbers) and the result is >forL >all intents and purposes random.  Then take that random result and apply itJ >to some huge percentage of the votes actually cast and you've got a great >formulaI >for bad decision making.  Far better if ISS had polled a large number ofe >independentI >analysts (all of whom have access to the same information) and tried to tQ >determine fairly if the sentiment was 53% in favor or 53% opposed.  But then, ifn >thatwQ >was all ISS did, who'd want to pay ISS for their expertise?  Heck, we can't evene >tellsQ >if the ISS analysts were divided in their opinion, but given that everybody elsep >is, itz, >would be pretty surprising if they weren't. >e  G According to the one article on this I read last week, ISS doesn't evenaK ordinarily do this kind of analysis, and was feeling very pressed by their  D customers to come up with a decision.  I don't know if they _have_ a methodology.  L >Here's hoping that all the other analysts in the financial world earn their$ >pay and make independent decisions.  F Based on more than just what the companies tell them, like with Enron.   >dL >Interesting that the index funds, which pick shares purely by market share, >still feel compelleduO >to vote those shares, even though they did no analysis at all when they bought  >them.Q >Then the lot of them turn to a single company (ISS) to vote their proxies and inn >effect greatly M >amplify the noise in the market's decision making process. Maybe better that  >these funds didn'tyM >vote their shares at all, or failing that, that they at least used a broaderW >spectrum of, >companies to make these sorts of decisions.  K Good points.  Equally valid if ISS had recommended against the merger, too,i0 which suggests that they really are good points.   -- Alana  O ===============================================================================h0  Alan Winston --- WINSTON@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDUM  Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056fM  Physical mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 69, PO BOX 4349, STANFORD, CA  94309-0210 O ===============================================================================e   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 01:36:47 GMT  From: as@if.com (MV)Y Subject: Re: R.I.P. OpenVMS - ISS Recommends That H-P Holders Vote in Favor of Compaq Acqs1 Message-ID: <3c856eac.37296002@news.videotron.ca>-  @ This is an out take from an M.Capellas gloating e-mail posted toE employees hours after the ISS report being issued.  He again imploreswB employees to vote their shares for the merger later in the note.    A "Together, we will have a leading position in key growth markets,eC including servers, storage, personal systems, imaging and printing,'C management software, and global services.  Just consider the serveriF market alone.  The combined company will be the market share leader inE Windows-based servers, Linux servers, UNIX servers and fault tolerante systems."     0                                  ??? OpenVMS ???  C As an ex-Digital/current Compaq employee who must watch our belovedrB operating system suffers these indignations and humiliations, plusD watch our loyal customers be left to the wind, I'm truly and finally? sickened by this freak show by a few interested in lining their + pockets from the proceeds of this "merger".   5 I most definitely will NOT vote my shares in favor.      MV l   ------------------------------   Date: 5 Mar 2002 19:40:13 -0600e- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)nY Subject: Re: R.I.P. OpenVMS - ISS Recommends That H-P Holders Vote in Favor of Compaq Acqq3 Message-ID: <GUeM+XhJnIPf@eisner.encompasserve.org>t  H In article <3c856eac.37296002@news.videotron.ca>, as@if.com (MV) writes: > B > This is an out take from an M.Capellas gloating e-mail posted to4 > employees hours after the ISS report being issued.  C "Out take" means a portion that was not used in the finished piece.o   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 02:08:21 GMT  From: as@if.com (MV)Y Subject: Re: R.I.P. OpenVMS - ISS Recommends That H-P Holders Vote in Favor of Compaq Acq 1 Message-ID: <3c857924.39976464@news.videotron.ca>e  D I stand corrected.   Thanks for the correction Larry.  Could've been& the heat of the moment..I don't know.   ? Let's substitue  "excerpt" for  "out take" and pretend it nevere
 happened.    MV            E On 5 Mar 2002 19:40:13 -0600, Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)c wrote:  I >In article <3c856eac.37296002@news.videotron.ca>, as@if.com (MV) writes:d >> .C >> This is an out take from an M.Capellas gloating e-mail posted too5 >> employees hours after the ISS report being issued.s >oD >"Out take" means a portion that was not used in the finished piece.   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 02:05:27 GMTnL From: winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU ("Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr")Y Subject: Re: R.I.P. OpenVMS - ISS Recommends That H-P Holders Vote in Favor of Compaq Acql8 Message-ID: <00A0A7F8.CAFEB97C@SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>  H In article <3c856eac.37296002@news.videotron.ca>, as@if.com (MV) writes: >iA >This is an out take from an M.Capellas gloating e-mail posted to,F >employees hours after the ISS report being issued.  He again imploresC >employees to vote their shares for the merger later in the note.  a > B >"Together, we will have a leading position in key growth markets,D >including servers, storage, personal systems, imaging and printing,D >management software, and global services.  Just consider the serverG >market alone.  The combined company will be the market share leader inhF >Windows-based servers, Linux servers, UNIX servers and fault tolerant
 >systems."   h >p1 >                                 ??? OpenVMS ???w  G Well, Compaq is already the market share leader in OpenVMS systems, so h; that wouldn't be a very compelling argument for the merger.t  K (Which is not to make any speculation about what HPaq's plans for VMS wouldl be, one way or t'other.)   -- Aland    O ===============================================================================w0  Alan Winston --- WINSTON@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDUM  Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056CM  Physical mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 69, PO BOX 4349, STANFORD, CA  94309-0210fO ===============================================================================s   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 15:46:10 -0800p' From: David Mathog <mathog@caltech.edu>sY Subject: Re: R.I.P. OpenVMS - ISS Recommends That H-P Holders Vote in Favor of Compaq Acq.+ Message-ID: <3C8558C2.5092B415@caltech.edu>n   John Smith wrote:e  I > In a brief press conference, ISS Vice President Patrick McGurn said ISS K > believes "management's plan is achievable" and that the deal "provides anqD > excellent means of providing shareholder value over the long run."  H Anybody know how many ISS analysts worked on this decision?  50?  5?  1?J The statisticians of the world must be banging their heads on the floor in frustrationsN over this one.  Take an issue where votes are very evenly divided then measure the majorityO of a very small number of opinions (any of the above numbers) and the result isr forhK all intents and purposes random.  Then take that random result and apply itaI to some huge percentage of the votes actually cast and you've got a greata formula H for bad decision making.  Far better if ISS had polled a large number of independentgH analysts (all of whom have access to the same information) and tried to P determine fairly if the sentiment was 53% in favor or 53% opposed.  But then, if thatP was all ISS did, who'd want to pay ISS for their expertise?  Heck, we can't even tellP if the ISS analysts were divided in their opinion, but given that everybody else is, it+ would be pretty surprising if they weren't.   K Here's hoping that all the other analysts in the financial world earn their-# pay and make independent decisions.   K Interesting that the index funds, which pick shares purely by market share,p still feel compelledN to vote those shares, even though they did no analysis at all when they bought them.yP Then the lot of them turn to a single company (ISS) to vote their proxies and in effect greatlyL amplify the noise in the market's decision making process. Maybe better that these funds didn'tL vote their shares at all, or failing that, that they at least used a broader spectrum ofd+ companies to make these sorts of decisions.d   Regards,   David Mathog mathog@caltech.edu   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 23:10:38 -0500o- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> Y Subject: Re: R.I.P. OpenVMS - ISS Recommends That H-P Holders Vote in Favor of Compaq Acq , Message-ID: <3C8596BB.802FDEC2@videotron.ca>   John Smith wrote:c > G > Bet you that OpenVMS goes into maintenance-only mode within 6 months.n  J HP won't announce VMS's maintenance mode until the personal and commercialJ wintel stuff becomes profitable enough to sustain the company without VMS.  D HP is about to waste over 20 billion bucks buying Compaq. Removing aL competitor in the wintel market will help HP. But HP will still have to haveN something to show in exchange for that $20 waste of money. It will take a veryN long time before Tru64 customers move to HP-UX on that bloated IA64 thing. AllF that consolidation Compaq was announcing won't happen for a long time.  J Initially, the only profitable stuff Compaq will bring to the table is theM Tandem and Digital stuff. And while HP clearly sees no future for the DigitaleL stuff, it will be seen as a short term necessary evil to generate some money to keep the company afloat.   M In a way, I hope HP makes the mistake of immediatly killing VMS in a rash waycK to achieve that $2 billion in immediate promised savings. That will cause anN chain reaction that will bring HP down very fast (ever bad quarter will inciteM HP to further cut stuff and downsize itself out fo existance as did Digital.)u  M But in reality, I suspect that VMS will get the same silent treatment from HPbK as it did with Compaq. If nobody knows about VMS, then they can continue to C support/develop it secretly without having to epxlain it to anyone.t  N The one issue that could be problematic is that of Alpha/Wildfire/Marvel. WillN the remaining VMS and quickly dwindling Tru64 customer base be ordering enough; of those big systems to warrant their development costs ?     G Perhaps HP will only release the first Marvel system with just some CPUgN upgrades over the next couple of years, and no updates to the smaller systems.  K My only question is whether Carly knows enough about VMS and the revenus itnJ generates of whether she has been brainwahsed by Winkler and friends. ThatN will dictate how she handles it in her initial "quick cutting of duplication".   ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 14:11:32 -0500* From: WILLIAM WEBB <WWEBB1@email.usps.gov>* Subject: RE: Standalone backup question...- Message-ID: <0033000055271390000002L002*@MHS>y   =0AThings that come to mind.  1 1.  TK50s only hold 92MB and the media are almostp"     impossible to find these days.  5 2.  Going to a TZ85, 87 or 88 would make this "secondn     volume" problem vanish.   1 3.  /IGNORE=3DLABEL instead of /LABEL=3D perhaps?s  4 4.  Why is the saveset for a disk named DKA300 being;     called DUA0.BCK?  It sounds to me as if procedures wereu/     not updated to reflect changes in hardware.<  > Oh, Michael- be forewarned- a good bit of the console commands@ and so forth aren't the same between MicroVAXes and VAXstations.   WWWebb     -----Original Message-----/ From: Info-VAX-Request@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNET % Sent: Tuesday, March 05, 2002 1:50 PMvB To: Webb, William W Raleigh, NC; Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNET* Subject: RE: Standalone backup question...    H What he said was that if he changes the cartridge before it asks for th= e next tapeH all is well, but if he waits for the prompt, it does not resume properl= y, so he has toH stand there and catch it at unload and before it does READYWRITE.  If i= t would  take2 his Yes answer and resume correctly, he'd be okay.  Well that's what I read, anyway., (It may be checking for SYSB02 on the label)        0 wspencer@ap.nospam.org on 03/05/2002 01:19:26 PM  ( Please respond to wspencer@ap.nospam.org   To:   Info-VAX@mvb.saic.come/ cc:    (bcc: Norm Raphael/WOR/Automation/METSO)r+ Subject:  Re: Standalone backup question...a        : michael.worsley@praxis-cs.co.uk (Michael Worsley) wrote in) <a62t3f$b5fsd$1@ID-65806.news.dfncis.de>:o   >Hi, >hH >I'm trying to do a standalone backup of the system disk of our MicroVa= xe6 >3100 (VMS 5-5.2) to TK50 using the following command: > B >BACKUP/IMAGE/VERIFY DKA300: MKA500:dua0.bck/REWIND/LABEL=3Dsysbck >iH >I get halfway through the process, the tape is unloaded and I get to t= he >prompt: >n1 >%BACKUP-I-RESUME, resuming operation on volume 2C >CH >If I change the TK50 at this point, all goes well.  If, however, I wai= t # >till I get the following prompt...a >wE >%BACKUP-I-READYWRITE, mount volume 2 on _SABCKUP$MKA500: for writinga >Enter "Yes" when ready. > H >... before putting the new TK50 in, then the new tape whirrs quietly t= o,H >itself for a while before unloading itself (ie beeps, "Tape in use" go= es% >out, "Operate lever" light comes on.  >e >oH >Does this sound familiar to anyone at all?  Any suggestions about how = ISD >can try and get round this without sitting waiting for each tape to
 >complete? >u >u( >Any suggestions greatfully appreciated! >e >  >--m >Michael Worsley  >Praxis Critical Systems Limited >h >e  E It's not clear what you want to have happen here.  The first tape hasrF filled up, it tells you (%BACKUP-I-READYWRITE), rewinds the first tapeH (whirrs quietly to itself), spits it out ("Operate lever" light comes o= n),d" and you get to load the next tape.  H Is the problem that you want all this to happen without a tape-change? =  IfmH so, it would seem your options are higher-capacity tape drive, or a tap= egE jukebox, although I don't know if a jukebox will work with standalonea backup.I   ws   --   Warren Spencer' Senior Software Engineer (not a writer)u The Associated Press  = ** Time flies like an arrow.  Fruit flies like a bananna. **=    ------------------------------   Date: 5 Mar 2002 16:54:50 -0600 / From: "Henry Churchyard" <churchh@crossmyt.com> Y Subject: Re: Sv: Younger recruits versus experienced veterans ( was The demise       of  a* Message-ID: <a63ibq$3tf@moe.cc.utexas.edu>  ( In article <1bn0y52xdw.fsf@cs.nmsu.edu>,+ Joe Pfeiffer  <pfeiffer@cs.nmsu.edu> wrote:n7 >Brian Inglis <Brian.Inglis@SystematicSw.ab.ca> writes:s  A >>> And they've gotten their way, too.  I know far better than to8B >>> refer to a generic programmer as ``he'' in anything I write...  D >> I've used the plurals "they", etc. or "the <functional name>" for >> over 25 years  F > ``They'' is grammatically incorrect; I tend to use ``the <functional? > name>,'' but that gets awkward.  ``He'' was good old standardh? > English for an unspecified person, and was quite good enough.o@ > Obsessing about gender-neutrality in language does nothing but > degrade the language...7  E If you want to bring a few actual facts into the discussion, then youaC could look at http://www.crossmyt.com/hc/linghebr/austheir.html (orsE the mirror at http://www.pemberley.com/janeinfo/austheir.html ).  Youn@ could also try to send off an e-mail to Samuel Taylor Coleridge,D accusing him of "degrading the language" (but that might turn out to. be a little difficult, since he died in 1834).   --G  Henry Churchyard || churchh@crossmyt.com || http://www.crossmyt.com/hcPF "There's not a man I meet but doth salute me, as if I were their well-G acquainted friend" -- W. Shakespeare, _Comedy of Errors_, Act 4 Scene 3h   ------------------------------    Date: 06 Mar 2002 01:22:12 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>; Subject: Re: What VMS version runs on a Digital Server 3000 0 Message-ID: <87adtnylob.fsf@k9.prep.synonet.com>  ) "Hans Vlems" <hvlems@zfree.co.nz> writes:d  8 > The label on the back shows the following information:  i > Model: FR-K7F2W-WA > PN: 3300 6400A > Series: P8800   lD > The system is a white PC style box. It is _not_ a DEC 3000 machineF > (the ones that look remotely like a VAX 3100). Could it be a Jensen?$ > The ARC console identification is:  g' > Digital Server 3000 model 3300 6400A u > Digital Alpha 21164   aE > The machine used to boot NT4, but its ARC console supports also VMS D > and OSF modes. All I want is to be able to run AXP/VMS on it.  TheE > error message reported was the result of >>> B -fl 0,0 dka500 where E > dka500 is the CD drive. It does boot into SYSBOOT>, no problem withi? > that.  The fact that the system supports both ARC and VMS/OSFw? > console modes made me think that VMS might run on the system.e  C It is one of the 'White Box' machines. 3000s, 5000s, and 7000s, all B crippled so they could not run VMS. A 7000 is a 4100 for instance,A can't remember what a 3000 or 5000 are based on. Some are easy toe1 boot under VMS if you have the right peripherals.l   --  < Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda. @                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 19:53:26 GMTe" From: "Hans Vlems" <hvlems@iae.nl>; Subject: Re: What VMS version runs on a Digital Server 3000s/ Message-ID: <Wm9h8.60$kH2.1704@typhoon.bart.nl>e   Paul.d  I if the machine was crippled, why would it allow itself to switch into SRM  mode?W8 IIRC the white box systems will only run ARC won't they?   Hans  7 Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com> wrote in messagee* news:87adtnylob.fsf@k9.prep.synonet.com...+ > "Hans Vlems" <hvlems@zfree.co.nz> writes:= >=: > > The label on the back shows the following information: >= > > Model: FR-K7F2W-WA > > PN: 3300 6400A > > Series: P8800e >IF > > The system is a white PC style box. It is _not_ a DEC 3000 machineH > > (the ones that look remotely like a VAX 3100). Could it be a Jensen?& > > The ARC console identification is: >=( > > Digital Server 3000 model 3300 6400A > > Digital Alpha 21164- > G > > The machine used to boot NT4, but its ARC console supports also VMS:F > > and OSF modes. All I want is to be able to run AXP/VMS on it.  TheG > > error message reported was the result of >>> B -fl 0,0 dka500 whereoG > > dka500 is the CD drive. It does boot into SYSBOOT>, no problem witheA > > that.  The fact that the system supports both ARC and VMS/OSFtA > > console modes made me think that VMS might run on the system.  >lE > It is one of the 'White Box' machines. 3000s, 5000s, and 7000s, alloD > crippled so they could not run VMS. A 7000 is a 4100 for instance,C > can't remember what a 3000 or 5000 are based on. Some are easy tom3 > boot under VMS if you have the right peripherals.d >- > --> > Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,9 > +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda. B >                                              West Australia 60760 > Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.H > EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 20:02:17 GMTn" From: "Hans Vlems" <hvlems@iae.nl>; Subject: Re: What VMS version runs on a Digital Server 3000e/ Message-ID: <dv9h8.63$kH2.1781@typhoon.bart.nl>-   Jeff,   J thank you for your help. But (as so often) answers generate new questions:  F > The DS 3300 is a "white box" AlphaServer 800 hobbled to run NT only. >o$ > To run VMS on it do the following; >P1 >   1) Change the machine to use the SRM console.cJ That was done, the system now boots into SRM and ends on the familiear >>> prompt.a   >aA >   2) Do a  >>> show conf  command to see the machine's firmwaree >      versions. Go to >t' It runs 5.4, the latest version is 5.6. 9 >          http://ftp.digital.com/pub/DEC/Alpha/firmware/a > D >      If the machine is not at the latest firmware version download >      a copy and update it. > 2 >   3) Then at the >>> prompt, type the following: >3 >         >>> set os_type vms.B >         >>> cat nvram       (to see what, if anything, is in it) >         >>> edit nvram  >             10 set srm_boot on >             20 e >         >>> init  K I did not check the contents of nvram, but the system can boot into SYSBOOTi	 but failsm4 later on in the boot process with the error message:  * "Unable to load SYS$CPU_ROUTINES_E505.EXE"   >r! >    4) Install VMS and have fun!e >o> > Change the line numbers, 10 and 20 above, if your nvram file/ > happens to have other commands in it already.e >e< > The edit command above runs a simple line numbered editor.0 > Type a ? in it to see a list of it's commands: >0 >         >>> edit nvram >             ?O >E > Jeff Campbell  > n8wxs@arrl.net >r > Hans Vlems wrote:P > >n: > > The label on the back shows the following information: > >l > > Model: FR-K7F2W-WA > > PN: 3300 6400A > > Series: P8800n > >cF > > The system is a white PC style box. It is _not_ a DEC 3000 machineH > > (the ones that look remotely like a VAX 3100). Could it be a Jensen?& > > The ARC console identification is: > >H( > > Digital Server 3000 model 3300 6400A > > Digital Alpha 21164t > > K > > The machine used to boot NT4, but its ARC console supports also VMS anda OSF,9 > > modes. All I want is to be able to run AXP/VMS on it.dE > > The error message reported was the result of >>> B -fl 0,0 dka500hH > > where dka500 is the CD drive. It does boot into SYSBOOT>, no problem with	 > > that.sH > > The fact that the system supports both ARC and VMS/OSF console modes3 > > made me think that VMS might run on the system.M > >w > > Hans > >q7 > > rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger) wrote:o7 > > >In article <3c840244.1214705283@news.wcc.govt.nz>,e rob.buxton@wcc.govt.nz
 > > wrote: > > >tB > > >>Not sure if it's the same, we got a couple of DEC 3000s here) > > >>2 DEC 3000 600M and a DEC 3000 300L= > > >>The latter is running 7.3=! > > >>The 600Ms are running 7.2-1  > > >>B > > >>Palcode Version on the 300L is 5.54 and on the 600Ms is 5.56 > > >> > > >>Maybe a Firmware thing?  > > >aL > > >The above are conventional DEC 3000 server or workstation systems.  VMSJ > > >has supported them since the flood.  There haven't been major changes to< > > >the firmware for years.  These systems will load either> > > >SYS$CPU_ROUTINES_0702.EXE (any of the 3000-300 family) or3 > > >SYS$CPU_ROUTINES_0402.EXE (any of the others).e > > >o > > >mI > > >>On Mon, 04 Mar 2002 15:49:21 GMT, "Hans Vlems" <hvlems@zfree.co.nz>e > > >>wrote: > > >> > > >>>cG > > >>>I found an old Dig. Server 3000 and tried to boot VMS 7.3 on it.p( > > >>>It failed with the error message:/ > > >>>Unable to load SYS$CPU_ROUTINES_E505.EXEd) > > >>>The VMS PALcode version is V1.20-3w3 > > >>>The >>>show version command returns V5.4-113  > > > H > > >This is something completely different.  I don't recognize the nameJ > > >"Digital Server 3000" as being a VMS-capable system.  (Which does not mean> > > >there is no such beast.)  Certainly, if it is looking forK > > >SYS$CPU_ROUTINES_E505.EXE, it is NOT a Pelican, Flamingo, or Sandpiperr0 > > >class DEC 3000 system.  No relation at all. > > >m > > >(This web pagetJ > > >   http://www.phys.ufl.edu/~prescott/linux/alpha/dec3000-sysinfo.htmlI > > >summarizes the DEC 3000 family pretty nicely, including the formerlys# > > >top-secret system code names.)m > > >mI > > >On my systems, there's no SYS$CPU_ROUTINES_E505.EXE in the [SYS$LDR] H > > >directory, which is the root problem.  The console sets up the dataJ > > >structures that lets VMS figure this out.  There's no intelligence in VMSi > > >in this area. > > >tJ > > >Please be VERY careful with system names.  If you can find the label, postL > > >exactly what the model name is.  Since you seem to have console access,4 > > >tell us the exact system name from the console. > > >fK > > >This _may_ be one of the crippled systems that was tweeked to make VMStL > > >unbootable.  The "E505" part of the file name looks suspicious, since IK > > >don't think the most significant bit of that hex number is ever set on K > > >"official" VMS-supported systems.  But my memory may be faultly.  Somec ofK > > >these systems shipped with VMS PALcode, but VMS does not support them.t > > >a5 > > >>>Is there any hope to boot, say, VMS 6.2 on it?  > > > J > > >If it's similar enough to a supported system, it could likely be made to) > > >work.  Licensing might be a problem.0 > > >0G > > >If you find the detailed system specs, and have access to a sourcecI > > >listings kit, and can write your own platform support and maybe somem bootL > > >drivers, then I'm certain you could boot VMS on it.  But this paragraphE > > >likely needs multiple smileys.  You're looking for hobbyist, not  > > >obsession, right? > > >e > > >  -- Robert > >r > > http://www.zfree.co.nz   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 23:05:58 GMTP+ From: Jeff Campbell <jcampbell@ins-msi.com>n; Subject: Re: What VMS version runs on a Digital Server 3000l+ Message-ID: <3C8545F3.2A0B2A48@ins-msi.com>n   Hans Vlems wrote:  >  > Jeff,w > L > thank you for your help. But (as so often) answers generate new questions: > H > > The DS 3300 is a "white box" AlphaServer 800 hobbled to run NT only. > >p& > > To run VMS on it do the following; > >r3 > >   1) Change the machine to use the SRM console. L > That was done, the system now boots into SRM and ends on the familiear >>>	 > prompt.  >  > >eC > >   2) Do a  >>> show conf  command to see the machine's firmware  > >      versions. Go to > > ) > It runs 5.4, the latest version is 5.6.l; > >          http://ftp.digital.com/pub/DEC/Alpha/firmware/t > >mF > >      If the machine is not at the latest firmware version download > >      a copy and update it. > >i4 > >   3) Then at the >>> prompt, type the following: > >t > >         >>> set os_type vmsrD > >         >>> cat nvram       (to see what, if anything, is in it) > >         >>> edit nvram" > >             10 set srm_boot on > >             20 e > >         >>> init > M > I did not check the contents of nvram, but the system can boot into SYSBOOT  > but failsp6 > later on in the boot process with the error message: > , > "Unable to load SYS$CPU_ROUTINES_E505.EXE"   Sorry 'bout that!! 8-)  ( Insert these steps after the edit nvram:   Step 3A  >>> set boot_reset on      3B  >>> initu  0 I have both a DS 3300 and a DS 5305 (yea eBay!).! Both are running VMS. (seti@home)t  
 Jeff Campbellu n8wxs@arrl.net   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 22:39:32 GMTs" From: "Hans Vlems" <hvlems@iae.nl>; Subject: Re: What VMS version runs on a Digital Server 3000i/ Message-ID: <EObh8.70$kH2.2050@typhoon.bart.nl>-   Jeff,-  1 thanks, I'll try these steps next thing tomorrow.m= BTW what does the file SYS$CPU_ROUTINES_E505.EXE actually do?    Hans  6 Jeff Campbell <jcampbell@ins-msi.com> wrote in message% news:3C8545F3.2A0B2A48@ins-msi.com...  > Hans Vlems wrote:a > >e	 > > Jeff,a > >pC > > thank you for your help. But (as so often) answers generate new 
 questions: > >sJ > > > The DS 3300 is a "white box" AlphaServer 800 hobbled to run NT only. > > >r( > > > To run VMS on it do the following; > > > 5 > > >   1) Change the machine to use the SRM console.iJ > > That was done, the system now boots into SRM and ends on the familiear >>>e > > prompt.n > >  > > >tE > > >   2) Do a  >>> show conf  command to see the machine's firmwaree > > >      versions. Go to > > >-+ > > It runs 5.4, the latest version is 5.6.e= > > >          http://ftp.digital.com/pub/DEC/Alpha/firmware/0 > > >oH > > >      If the machine is not at the latest firmware version download  > > >      a copy and update it. > > >h6 > > >   3) Then at the >>> prompt, type the following: > > >f! > > >         >>> set os_type vmsbF > > >         >>> cat nvram       (to see what, if anything, is in it) > > >         >>> edit nvram$ > > >             10 set srm_boot on > > >             20 e > > >         >>> init > > G > > I did not check the contents of nvram, but the system can boot intoe SYSBOOT 
 > > but failsa8 > > later on in the boot process with the error message: > > . > > "Unable to load SYS$CPU_ROUTINES_E505.EXE" >  > Sorry 'bout that!! 8-) > * > Insert these steps after the edit nvram: >j  > Step 3A  >>> set boot_reset on >      3B  >>> inite >o2 > I have both a DS 3300 and a DS 5305 (yea eBay!).# > Both are running VMS. (seti@home)> >  > Jeff Campbellt > n8wxs@arrl.net   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 22:27:02 -0500T2 From: rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger); Subject: Re: What VMS version runs on a Digital Server 3000gK Message-ID: <rdeininger-0503022227020001@1cust111.tnt1.nashua.nh.da.uu.net>o  < In article <EObh8.70$kH2.2050@typhoon.bart.nl>, "Hans Vlems" <hvlems@iae.nl> wrote:   >Jeff, >,2 >thanks, I'll try these steps next thing tomorrow.> >BTW what does the file SYS$CPU_ROUTINES_E505.EXE actually do?    G If you have the OpenVMS AXP internals and data structures book, you canf? read all the gory details.  I'll try to give the short version.   @ VMS knows very little about the details of a particular hardwareI platform.  The SRM console hides many of the system-specific details, anduH the VMS PALcode covers up some of the differences between CPU families. J (Folks often lump both parts together and call it the "console", but thereJ are a number of "firmware" components in an alpha system.  The console and. the PALcode are just the most visible pieces.)  H The platform-specific details that are still visible and important above= the firmware layer are handled by a collection of routines ineJ SYS$CPU_ROUTINES_xxyy.EXE.  (Galaxy configuration stuff clouds this schemeJ a little, so let's ignore it here.  And remember I'm leaving out details.)  G Among other things, these routines know how to find the I/O devices andoH busses in the system, know the addresses of the registers in the variousF adapters, and know the magic command bytes for the various intelligentG chips in the box.  There is a large collection of entry points into thePJ CPU_ROUTINES, and various schemes to access the entry points, but anythingH in VMS that needs platform-specific information or services gets it fromH here.  If you don't have this file, VMS doesn't know anything about your	 hardware.p  G The "xx" part is the hexadecimal representation of the system type, and.I the "yy" is the hex representation of the CPU type.  The whole collectionpH of SYS$CPU_ROUTINES_xxyy.EXE files are normally found on every VMS alphaG system disk.  VMS loads one of these files early in the boot sequence.  H How does it know which one to load?  Simple -- the SRM console tells it.  F The console code initializes some of the hardware, tests memory, chatsJ with the operator about boot flags and boot devices, and etc.  The consoleF builds some data structures where it leaves key information for VMS to find during boot.s  H The main link between the console and the OS is the HWRPB - the HardWareE Restart Parameter Block.  The OS knows where to find this structure. .E According to the IDS book, the HWRPB is temporarily mapped at virtual J address 10000000 (hex) by the console just before it passes control to theE OS.  But that might be out-of-date info.  My system puts the HWRPB at G physical location 50000 hex.  The first quadword is always the physicalgI address of the structure - 50000 in my case.  The next quadword is alwaysiD the ASCII string HWRPB, followed by 3 null bytes.  If you find that, you've likely found the HWRPB.  H Once VMS is booted, you can examine the HWRPB using ANALYZE/SYSTEM.  TheG global cell exe$gpq_hwrpb contains the address of the HWRPB, so you canc say something like$ SDA> READ SYSDEF  ! Maybe not needed% SDA> format/type=hwrpb @exe$gpq_hwrpbi  D The system type (xx) is stored in a quadword in the HWRPB, at offsetJ HWRPB$IQ_SYSTYPE, which is 50 (hex) bytes from the start of the HWRPB.  MyC DEC 3000-600 system has hex 04 in this cell, so xx is "04" for thishH system.  I don't know how many bytes of the quadword are significant - I think only one.   J The CPU type (yy) is a little harder to find.  Since this is a property ofH the CPU, not the system, it lives in a related data structure called theC per-CPU slot.  There is one slot for each CPU that a system _might_AC contain.  The console fills in one or more SLOT data structures andtI attaches them to the HWRPB.  Field HWRPB$IQ_SLOT_OFFSET contains the byte G offset from the start of the HWRPB to the start of the first SLOT.  And>I the CPU type is at offset SLOT$IQ_CPU_TYPE in the SLOT.  (This field willO be the same in each SLOT.) So in SDA, h- SDA> exam @exe$gpq_hwrpb+hwrpb$iq_slot_offset  (returns 200 hex on my system)( SDA> format/type=slot @exe$gpq_hwrpb+200(  ... shows you the (first) per-CPU slot.  4 The interesting field is at offset SLOT$IQ_CPU_TYPE:/ SDA> exam (@exe$gpq_hwrpb)+200+slot$iq_cpu_typea!  ... returns hex 02 on my system.   G So my CPU type (yy) is 02.  Thus the console, through the HWRPB and theaJ SLOT, is telling VMS to find and load the file SYS$CPU_ROUTINES_0402.EXE. I And sure enough, if you tell SDA to SHOW EXEC, this file appears way down E near the end of the list, since it was one of the first files loaded.     F (Deep breath.  The VMS boot routines do all of this in a fraction of a% second, so it must be simple, right?)   I Your console is passing a HWRPB with a system type of E5, and a SLOT withjI a CPU type of 05.  If you look on a system disk, you'll note that none of8I the xxyy files has a system type like E5.  They're all small numbers, andyE in particular they are all positive.  E5 looks like a negative byte -s weird.  H If your system is similar enough to a supported system, with a differentJ system type or CPU type, you could try various things to make it boot VMS:  I 1. Convince the console to present a different system type in the HWRPB. oI VMS would load a different CPU_ROUTINES file, and if that file understoodeD the hardware, everything would work.  Some consoles might have magicI commands to alter things like the system type.  Consoles aren't very welld; documented.  I don't think my system's console can do this.   F 2. Change the HWRPB in memory after the console builds it.  (The HWRPBH contains a checksum, so you'd have to adjust that as well.)  Alas, on myI system, the HWRPB is built _after_ I type BOOT, so anything I change withrG console DEPOSIT commands is lost.  I think I could boot with XDELTA andk? fiddle with memory early in the boot, changing the HWRPB beforee6 CPU_ROUTINES is loaded.  But I've no XDELTA docs here.  G 3. Copy a different CPU_ROUTINES_xxyy file to _E505.  Kind of hard on at$ CD, but with a CD image on disk, ...  I If you load a CPU_ROUTINES_xxyy that describes the wrong hardware, expectVF an early crash.  But if the hardware support exists in a file with the8 "wrong" name, loading that file would allow VMS to boot.  J I dunno what your VMS license says about altering the HWRPB.  Mine doesn't mention it.e     -- Robert6   ------------------------------   Date: 5 Mar 2002 19:48:47 CDT = From: wayne@tachysoft.xxx.525246.killspam.00ce (Wayne Sewell)C; Subject: Re: What VMS version runs on a Digital Server 3000c. Message-ID: <XNSEEPh1E6hz@tachxxsoftxxconsult>  T In article <Wm9h8.60$kH2.1704@typhoon.bart.nl>, "Hans Vlems" <hvlems@iae.nl> writes: > Paul." > K > if the machine was crippled, why would it allow itself to switch into SRMe > mode? : > IIRC the white box systems will only run ARC won't they? >   F There's no problem with running srm on a whitebox machine, since it isH basically the same as an alphaserver 800, which runs vms just fine.  TheF crippling occurs when vms attempts to start.  The cpu type of the 3300N (actually a negation of the alphaserver 800 cpu type) is not recognized by theN vms startup.  Or rather it can't find the cpu-specific module corresponding toK the bogus cpu type, which amounts to the same thing.  The can't-find-module5= message is what you get if you try to boot vms on a whitebox.a   --  O =============================================================================== M Wayne Sewell, Tachyon Software Consulting  (281)812-0738  wayne@tachysoft.xxx : http://www.tachysoft.xxx/www/tachyon.html and wayne.html  K change .xxx to .com in addresses above, assuming you are not a spambot  :-)0O ===============================================================================o= Society Lady:  Are you familiar with the Great Wall of China?l5        Curly:  No, but I know a big fence in Chicago!:   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2002.127 ************************