1 INFO-VAX	Thu, 07 Mar 2002	Volume 2002 : Issue 129       Contents:2 Re: best/most flexible preserve VMS files onto CD?2 Re: best/most flexible preserve VMS files onto CD?2 Re: best/most flexible preserve VMS files onto CD? Re: Change name of LSE icon ? 3 Re: Clustering beginnings - Clair Grant might know. . Re: DCL challenge of the day: dates comparison. Re: DCL challenge of the day: dates comparison. Re: DCL challenge of the day: dates comparison. Re: DCL challenge of the day: dates comparison. Re: DCL challenge of the day: dates comparison5 RE: DCL Minute of the GMT+1 nite: nr of lines (again)  Re: DTE Unsynchronised Re: DTE Unsynchronised Re: emacs on VMS FTC Approves H-P/Compaq Deal  Re: FTC Approves H-P/Compaq Deal* Re: HobbesNet - free Hobbyist VMS accounts, Re: How to enable a tapedrive for compaction, Re: How to enable a tapedrive for compaction Re: Itanium troubles Re: Itanium troubles Re: Itanium troubles Re: Itanium troubles Re: Itanium troubles Re: Itanium troubles Re: Itanium troubles Re: Itanium troubles Re: Itanium troubles Re: Itanium troubles Re: Itanium troubles Re: Itanium troubles Re: Itanium troubles Re: Itanium troubles' Re: LIB$CVT_FROM_INTERNAL_TIME - year?? ' Re: LIB$CVT_FROM_INTERNAL_TIME - year?? ( Re: List of ECOs combination that works?4 Re: Looking for OpenVMS Hobbyist CD v1 (OpenVMS 6.2)4 Re: Looking for OpenVMS Hobbyist CD v1 (OpenVMS 6.2)/ Netscape annoyance with OpenVMS CGI executables 3 Re: Netscape annoyance with OpenVMS CGI executables  OpenStep for VMS Re: OpenStep for VMS! Re: OPENVMS-HOBBYIST License PAK? ! Re: OPENVMS-HOBBYIST License PAK? 4 OT: Eric Raymond Talk/Webcast In Houston On March 14& Re: Pathworks with Windows 2000 client& RE: Pathworks with Windows 2000 clientP Re: R.I.P. OpenVMS - ISS Recommends That H-P Holders Vote in Favor of Compaq AcqP Re: R.I.P. OpenVMS - ISS Recommends That H-P Holders Vote in Favor of Compaq AcqP Re: R.I.P. OpenVMS - ISS Recommends That H-P Holders Vote in Favor of Compaq AcqP Re: R.I.P. OpenVMS - ISS Recommends That H-P Holders Vote in Favor of Compaq Acq" Re: TCPIP$FTP hangs in MUTEX state- Re: Telnet to OpenVMS - unknown terminal type - Re: Telnet to OpenVMS - unknown terminal type - Re: Telnet to OpenVMS - unknown terminal type ! Re: What is DTSC in a VMS context ! Re: What is DTSC in a VMS context ! Re: What is DTSC in a VMS context 2 Re: What VMS version runs on a Digital Server 30002 Re: What VMS version runs on a Digital Server 30002 Re: What VMS version runs on a Digital Server 30002 Re: What VMS version runs on a Digital Server 3000N Why no DEFINE /GROUP=nnnn? (was re: define "group-logicals" at system startup)P Re: Why no DEFINE /GROUP=nnnn? (was re: define "group-logicals" at system startuP Re: Why no DEFINE /GROUP=nnnn? (was re: define "group-logicals" at system startuP Re: Why no DEFINE /GROUP=nnnn? (was re: define "group-logicals" at system startu  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 21:07:00 +0100 2 From: martin@radiogaga.harz.de (Martin Vorlaender); Subject: Re: best/most flexible preserve VMS files onto CD? ; Message-ID: <3c8676e4.524144494f47414741@radiogaga.harz.de>   4 Christoph Gartmann (gartmann@immunbio.mpg.de) wrote:( > leeroth@my-deja.com (Lee Roth) writes:G > >I am considering using VMSTAR to create a 'kit' of the tape-restored F > >files and then shipping the .tar file (or the G-zipped tar file) to > >the PC for CD burning.  > > C > >For grabbing specific text files WinZip can usually take apart a ) > >G-zipped tar set (e.g.  fooey.tar.gz).  > > F > >Does this sound like a sound approach that will give me full accessF > >to saved files under VMS, Windows or Unix? I am going to experimentH > >with VMSTAR, GZIP, etc. under VMS before deciding on my final method. > J > I suggest you unpack your Backup-savesets and repack them using ZIP withL > the option "-V". This will preserve VMS file attributes. Then transfer theO > zipped files in binary mode to your PC and burn an ISO-CD. Newer VMS-Versions I > are able to read these CDs, PCs and Unixes do as well. If you restore a H > file under VMS use UNZIP for VMS, otherwise use UNZIP for the specific > platform.   E Beware that e.g. textfiles in ZIP archives made with record attribute D perservation ("-V") can't be properly unZIPped outside of VMS. ThereE you get the raw file format, e.g. lines prefixed by two length bytes.    cu,    Martin --D                         | Martin Vorlaender  |  VMS & WNT programmer1  VMS is today what      | work: mv@pdv-systeme.de E  Microsoft wants        |    http://www.pdv-systeme.de/users/martinv/ 8  Windows NT 8.0 to be!  | home: martin@radiogaga.harz.de   ------------------------------  " Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 22:40:47 GMT' From: Rick Dyson <Rick-Dyson@UIowa.EDU> ; Subject: Re: best/most flexible preserve VMS files onto CD? ) Message-ID: <3C869AEF.66A6EEDD@UIowa.EDU>   G Along with all the suggestions of using ZIP (with attention paid to the E "-V" VMS option), I might suggest that you consider a hybrid CD where I it is both OpenVMS Files-11 and ISO 9660.  There are several How-To lists I available.  With this option, you can either mount the CD-R in an OpenVMS I box and use it in native Files-11 ODS-2 format or mount it as an ISO 9660 G disc.  *OR* mount it on a Windoze/Unic box as an ISO 9660 disc.  If you G are redundant, you can even have all the special RMS files protected in N ZIP archives on the ISO side as well as having them native on the VMS side. :)  4 Admittedly, this is more work, but much more fun. :)  N Look for CD-R burning info in the OpenVMS FAQ files that Hoffman maintains on  the official OpenVMS web page:  6 	http://www.openvms.compaq.com/wizard/openvms_faq.html   Enjoy!
 Rick Dyson     Lee Roth wrote:  > C > I have some old TK50 & TK70 tapes that were made with VMS BACKUP. ? > I would like to 'restore' these files onto a Microvax II hard E > drive (temporarily), and then ship them to a Windoze PC for burning 
 > onto CD.   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 04:21:58 GMT 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> ; Subject: Re: best/most flexible preserve VMS files onto CD? ' Message-ID: <3C86EC4D.3DB7C663@fsi.net>    Rick Dyson wrote:  > I > Along with all the suggestions of using ZIP (with attention paid to the G > "-V" VMS option), I might suggest that you consider a hybrid CD where K > it is both OpenVMS Files-11 and ISO 9660.  There are several How-To lists K > available.  With this option, you can either mount the CD-R in an OpenVMS K > box and use it in native Files-11 ODS-2 format or mount it as an ISO 9660 I > disc.  *OR* mount it on a Windoze/Unic box as an ISO 9660 disc.  If you I > are redundant, you can even have all the special RMS files protected in P > ZIP archives on the ISO side as well as having them native on the VMS side. :) > 6 > Admittedly, this is more work, but much more fun. :) > O > Look for CD-R burning info in the OpenVMS FAQ files that Hoffman maintains on   > the official OpenVMS web page: > ? >         http://www.openvms.compaq.com/wizard/openvms_faq.html   E The guys at TECsys turned me onto a method of co-mapping a CD so that F ISO side points to the extents of the "VMS side". Trouble there is, of+ course, the record format problem remains.     --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------   Date: 7 Mar 2002 00:19:16 +0100 * From: eplan@kapsch.net (Peter LANGSTOEGER)& Subject: Re: Change name of LSE icon ?* Message-ID: <3c86a3f4$1@news.kapsch.co.at>  b In article <3c865b56$1@news.si.com>, "Brian Tillman" <tillman_brian@notnoone.notnohow.com> writes:5 >The values of the Icon and Title bar can be found in M >DECW$SYSTEM_DEFAULTS:LSE$DEFAULTS.DAT.  If you want to change them, create a L >file LSE$DEFAULTS.DAT in your login directory and place in it the following >lines:  >  >Tpu.Tpu$MainWindow.Title:       Compaq Language-Sensitive Editor:  Compaq Compu ter Corporation 2000,  Electronic Data Systems Limited 1995, 2000F >Tpu.Tpu$MainWindow.ApplicationTitle: Compaq Language-Sensitive Editor) >Tpu.Tpu$MainWindow.IconName:         LSE  > ? >changing, of course, the values above to those you would like.   E One would assume that a /WINDOW_ATTRIBUTES qualifier offers all this, L but unfortunately not with LSEDIT. So, I guess it's time for a PIR again ;-)   --  < Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER           Tel.    +43 1 81111 2651; Network and OpenVMS system manager  Fax.    +43 1 81111 888 < KAPSCH AG      Wagenseilgasse 1     E-mail  eplan@kapsch.netH A-1121 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              "I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist"   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 00:44:23 GMT ' From: bad bob <sfmc68@bellatlantic.net> < Subject: Re: Clustering beginnings - Clair Grant might know./ Message-ID: <3C86B841.FB66242@bellatlantic.net>    "Edward C. Bailey" wrote:  > 9 > >>>>> "Alan" == Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net> writes:  > I > Alan> On Tue, 5 Mar 2002 18:33:10 +0100, "Dr. Dweeb" <Dweeb@NoSpam.com>  > Alan> wrote: > 2 > >> Hmm, clustering in 1980 ?  Is that accurate ? > I > Alan> By 1982 I had seen a presentation on TOPS-20 clustering (CI, star G > Alan> couplers, hsc-50 controllers). I believe the TOPS-20 clustering E > Alan> shipped before that for VMS. but they could have been done in  > Alan> parallel.  > J > Well, in '81 I was working on Galaxy support in MR1, and I recall seeingL > both "NI" and "CI" cables/hardware in the LCG lab, so it certainly existed > at that time.  > M > Before and after this time I worked with VMS and I can tell you that "real" J > clustering under VMS (ie, shared read/write file acess between differentE > cluster members) was quite late -- the functionality that VMS first G > supported was simply device access over CI.  No shared read/write was G > possible because VMS hadn't moved away from ACP processes towards the L > distributed lock manager approach they eventually implemented to arbitrate > shared device access.  > L > My recollection was that TOPS-20 clustering did ship before VMS had "real"K > clustering; whether it shipped before VMS claimed CI device support, I do M > not know.  My cynical side wonders if VMS' CI device support was rushed out L > to claim "first support", but I have no data to back that up.  It may haveL > been as simple as the fact that the hardware was ready to be sold, and theG > VAX product line had no way to generate sales on this stuff until VMS = > provided at least some level of support for the hardware...  > C That is my recollection too.  The HSC stuff was one of the keys for @ CI connected storage, and that set included various models that > transitioned to COlorado in the late 70s iirc, I recall RichieB Lary coming in to help with 11/60 microcode, and DMC/KMC microcode? around 76 from ColoSprings.  I admit my dates may be off a bit,  maybe a year, but... bob   >                             Ed > --@ > Ed Bailey        Red Hat, Inc.          http://www.redhat.com/   ------------------------------   Date: 6 Mar 2002 13:05:33 -0600  From: briggs@encompasserve.org7 Subject: Re: DCL challenge of the day: dates comparison 3 Message-ID: <KVeWg6xgnF7g@eisner.encompasserve.org>   U In article <3C865F5A.69B3F033@gmx.ch>, Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@gmx.ch> writes: E > 5. set matrix of days per month to 1 where digits are within period  > 8 >                        12345678901234567890123456789019 > Example march_array = "0000000000000001111111111111111" 8 >         april_array = "111111110000000000000000000000"  A If we're talking about 270203 through 020204 should feb_array be:    1100000000000000000000000011 or 11000000000000000000000000110  or something else?    	John Briggs   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 21:13:23 +0100 , From: Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@gmx.ch>7 Subject: Re: DCL challenge of the day: dates comparison & Message-ID: <3C867862.6CEBF5B5@gmx.ch>  # you got half of the solution... :-)    D.   Syltrem wrote: > K > In other words, you need this somewhere and don't have a good solution or B > don't have time to do it, and would rather pay someone to do it.2 > Is it better to be paid in chocolate or peanuts?" > Chocolate sure tastes better...-   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 21:14:21 +0100 , From: Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@gmx.ch>7 Subject: Re: DCL challenge of the day: dates comparison & Message-ID: <3C86789C.5AB5C7BA@gmx.ch>  @ Well, let's say that we stay within a year range, to start with.   D.   briggs@encompasserve.org wrote:  > W > In article <3C865F5A.69B3F033@gmx.ch>, Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@gmx.ch> writes: G > > 5. set matrix of days per month to 1 where digits are within period  > > : > >                        1234567890123456789012345678901; > > Example march_array = "0000000000000001111111111111111" : > >         april_array = "111111110000000000000000000000" > C > If we're talking about 270203 through 020204 should feb_array be:  >  > 1100000000000000000000000011 > or > 11000000000000000000000000110  > or > something else?    ------------------------------   Date: 6 Mar 2002 15:15:53 -0600  From: briggs@encompasserve.org7 Subject: Re: DCL challenge of the day: dates comparison 3 Message-ID: <QgsZdIUBiJ5K@eisner.encompasserve.org>   U In article <3C86789C.5AB5C7BA@gmx.ch>, Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@gmx.ch> writes: B > Well, let's say that we stay within a year range, to start with.  * Look again.  I stayed within a year range.  D >> If we're talking about 270203 through 020204 should feb_array be:  < That's February 27 through February 2.  Just over 11 months.  : Still, I take your meaning.  If we keep it under 11 months? then there's no danger of overlapping the front and back of the > interval into the same month.  And that ensures that any monthB that has days within the interval is unambiguously associated with a particular year.  @ But that does add a sanity check that you need us to do for you.   	John Briggs   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 07:03:53 +0100 , From: Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@gmx.ch>7 Subject: Re: DCL challenge of the day: dates comparison & Message-ID: <3C8702C9.213B36FC@gmx.ch>  D For me... for me... I hope all readers here understood that I am notN externalizing my work to the c.o.v. readers, as it was not the case too when IJ posted the "one DCL line only to find a number of records in a file" a fewO months ago. It's for fun, training and also to be helpful to those who may need N a little help from their friends, which I confess was also the case here, "for me" :-)   P If you compare the number of DCL lines I have posted in c.o.v. and the number of? "challenges", I really think that things are clear to everyone.  (no flame intended)   O Peter Weaver has sent me a very nice solution, do you all allow him to post it?  He is shy... :-)    D.   briggs@encompasserve.org wrote:  > B > But that does add a sanity check that you need us to do for you.   ------------------------------   Date: 6 Mar 2002 22:38 CST' From: carl@gerg.tamu.edu (Carl Perkins) > Subject: RE: DCL Minute of the GMT+1 nite: nr of lines (again), Message-ID: <6MAR200222382156@gerg.tamu.edu>  ' Robinson <arobinson@hspg.com> writes... M }This is the method I use for getting the record count of an RMS file, but is  }there a better quicker way?   }  }Andrew Robinson     Not without some programming.   = I think the "better quicker" way to get a record count (for a A sequential file, at least) that is not using fixed length records ? (for which you can calculate it directly by dividing the actual < size by the record size) is to write a program that uses RMSA directly. Do a SYS$OPEN followed by SYS$FIND repeatedly, counting @ as you go, until you hit the end, then a SYS$CLOSE. Or somethingD at lot like that. (For purposes of completeness, you'd probably wantD to use SYS$PARSE and a loop to deal with wildcards in the filespec.)A In theory, if I correctly understand how it works, this should be B very fast - since it only uses SYS$FIND (and doesn't do a SYS$GET)C it never copies the records to a local buffer, saving you some data B shuffling that would be done if you used a languages native "read"! type command to read each record.   E So the difference between what this does and what SEARCH does is thateA you save the overhead of moving the data to your local buffer andE< doing the comparisons of that buffer with the search string.  C It should also be somewhat more efficient than the (not so bad) DCLtF presented by Didier which copies each record to the null device, whichF is not quite as fast as it sounds like it should be, and then parses aE text file in DCL. SEARCH is probably faster that the Didier's DCL for B small files, but at some point the cost of doing the comparison toE try to find the string is probably be higher than the copying to null  and parsing a text file.   --- Carl   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 20:31:57 GMTa4 From: "Matt Muggeridge" <Matt.Muggeridge@compaq.com> Subject: Re: DTE Unsynchroniseds= Message-ID: <11vh8.7393$nC6.36397@news-server.bigpond.net.au>l  - > I suspect, however, that since there is note+ > a peep of received data, that somethng is 5 > wrong at the physical layer. Dead or removed cable,u8 > dead or disconnected modem, other end switched off ... >y  J I agree.  To help determine this, the "show modem connect line * all stat" should reveal more information.n   Cheers,t Matt.( (Ex X.25/LAPB/MC developer).   --= -------------------------------------------------------------  OpenVMS TCP/IP Engineering Enterprise Computing Group Compaq Computer CorporationV Gold Coast, AUSTRALIAS= -------------------------------------------------------------n    6 "antonio.carlini" <arcarlini@iee.org> wrote in message  news:3C851F2B.2000608@iee.org... > Matt Muggeridge wrote: >WL > > Not receiving any packets.  There are quite a few possibilities here andH > > it's best to start with modem connect.  I no longer have a system to verify3 > > the commands below, but I'm sure they're close:m >d > >tL > >     show modem connect line * all stat  --> especially verify the status is  > > "Full Enabled" assuming FDX. >A > + > I never came across anyone who had messedt0 > up modem connect. The config (at least on VAX)* > gives you little rope with which to hang > yourself here. >wK > >     show lapb link * all char --> one end must be set to DTE, the otherM sett
 > > to DCE >i >T3 > This is true. But this were all that were wrong ID' > would expect to see packets arriving.r > I > > Assuming your modem connect entities are in the correct state, I have0 oftenhJ > > found that people forget to set one end of their LAPB link to DCE mode and  > > the other to DTE mode. >e >t( > True ... and few of them realise that,/ > with effort, you can mess it up independentlye > at both L2 and L3 :-)n >(- > I suspect, however, that since there is notu+ > a peep of received data, that somethng isi5 > wrong at the physical layer. Dead or removed cable,-8 > dead or disconnected modem, other end switched off ... >e >e	 > Antonio0 >2   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 20:45:52 GMTc4 From: "Matt Muggeridge" <Matt.Muggeridge@compaq.com> Subject: Re: DTE Unsynchronisedf= Message-ID: <4evh8.7402$nC6.34542@news-server.bigpond.net.au>m  - > I suspect, however, that since there is notR+ > a peep of received data, that somethng isR5 > wrong at the physical layer. Dead or removed cable,t8 > dead or disconnected modem, other end switched off ... >t  J I agree.  To help determine this, the "show modem connect line * all stat" should reveal more information.    Cheers,g Matt.y (Ex X.25/LAPB/MC developer).   --= -------------------------------------------------------------e OpenVMS TCP/IP Engineering Enterprise Computing Group Compaq Computer Corporationt Gold Coast, AUSTRALIAi= -------------------------------------------------------------p    6 "antonio.carlini" <arcarlini@iee.org> wrote in message  news:3C851F2B.2000608@iee.org... > Matt Muggeridge wrote: >iL > > Not receiving any packets.  There are quite a few possibilities here andH > > it's best to start with modem connect.  I no longer have a system to verify3 > > the commands below, but I'm sure they're close:  >  > >fL > >     show modem connect line * all stat  --> especially verify the status is  > > "Full Enabled" assuming FDX. >e >o+ > I never came across anyone who had messed 0 > up modem connect. The config (at least on VAX)* > gives you little rope with which to hang > yourself here. >tK > >     show lapb link * all char --> one end must be set to DTE, the otherv sete
 > > to DCE >o >w3 > This is true. But this were all that were wrong Ii' > would expect to see packets arriving.t >rI > > Assuming your modem connect entities are in the correct state, I have  often7J > > found that people forget to set one end of their LAPB link to DCE mode andr > > the other to DTE mode. >s >-( > True ... and few of them realise that,/ > with effort, you can mess it up independentlye > at both L2 and L3 :-)V >o- > I suspect, however, that since there is notr+ > a peep of received data, that somethng is 5 > wrong at the physical layer. Dead or removed cable, 8 > dead or disconnected modem, other end switched off ... >  >o	 > Antoniot >    ------------------------------   Date: 6 Mar 2002 22:11 CST' From: carl@gerg.tamu.edu (Carl Perkins)n Subject: Re: emacs on VMSr, Message-ID: <6MAR200222111603@gerg.tamu.edu>  " david20@alpha1.mdx.ac.uk writes...L }Looks like Staroffice will never happen. It appears Sun is no longer making. }it freely available except for Solaris see :- } 2 }http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/4/24192.html } 	 }Title :-i } 3 }"Sun to charge for StarOffice (Linux and Windows)"n }  }David Webbz  E OpenOffice is still free. Practically the same thing, at this point -  but they may now diverge.a   See www.openoffice.org.    --- Carl   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 23:21:17 GMTt# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>W% Subject: FTC Approves H-P/Compaq Deal-2 Message-ID: <Nvxh8.48511$aFN.45382@news1.bloor.is>    March 6, 2002 5:59 p.m. EST     FTC Approves H-P/Compaq Deal, @ In Another Boost for Merger Plans Commission Vote was Unanimous,! Doesn't Attach Conditions to Pactt   By JOHN R. WILKE) Staff Reporter of THE WALL STREET JOURNALo    E The Federal Trade Commission said late Wednesday that it has approvedsC Hewlett-Packard Co.'s proposed acquisition of Compaq Computer Corp.   E The commission vote Wednesday was unanimous, and it is unconditional,p requiring no divestitures.  A The approval is another boost for the beleaguered merger plans ofmG Hewlett-Packard, Palo Alto, Calif., which is battling opposition from abJ dissident holders. On Tuesday, a major advisory group came out in favor of	 the deal.S  G In its investigation, the five-member FTC had weighed whether to demand I asset divestitures in the market for high-end computer servers, where theoK two companies have some overlapping product lines. But officials ultimatelyf decided against such measures.  D In a statement, the FTC said: "The commission conducted an extensiveK investigation of the merger's effect on competition in markets for personalgL computers, servers, and microprocessors, among other products. Based on thatE investigation, the commission did not find reason to believe that the.F proposed transaction would impair competition in any relevant market."  I Late Tuesday, Institutional Shareholder Services Inc., the proxy-advisory-E company whose clients own a large block of H-P's shares, endorsed thenJ computer company's plan to buy Compaq, significantly boosting chances that' the $22.8 billion deal will go through.c  J "At the end of the day, we were comfortable H-P management had taken stepsK to realize the long-term strategic value from this merger," said senior ISSYI analyst Ram Kumar, who helped to write the much-anticipated ISS decision.lC A combined H-P and Compaq would have strong strategic and financialiG prospects, Mr. Kumar said. ISS said it will issue its recommendation toiI Compaq shareholders on how they should vote their shares later this week.iF H-P shareholders vote March 19, a day before Compaq shareholders vote.  K The recommendation by ISS, of Rockville, Md., was a shot in the arm for H-P L Chief Executive Carly Fiorina, whose efforts to win over investors have comeL to resemble a brass-knuckle political campaign. The news also was a big blowI for dissident H-P director Walter Hewlett, the co-founder's son and majorTK shareholder who is soliciting proxies to defeat the acquisition. Members of ( the Packard family also oppose the deal.      URL for this article:B http://online.wsj.com/article/0,,SB1015445660261270760.djm,00.html   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 23:36:05 GMT # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> ) Subject: Re: FTC Approves H-P/Compaq Dealu1 Message-ID: <FJxh8.25930$xG.22142@news2.bloor.is>g  ! Also from the Wall Street Journaln* Poll taken at the Wall Street Journal site  2 Do you think the H-P/Compaq merger is a good deal?  1 Yes, it's a good strategic match  169 votes (19%) 0 Yes, there's no better alternative 60 votes (7%)1 No, H-P is better off independent 568 votes (62%) K No, H-P should spin off its printer unit into a separate entity instead 114  votes (13%)e   911 people have voted so far    L http://discussions.wsj.com/n/mb/message.asp?webtag=wsjvoices&nav=messages&ms g=2333    5 And some of the comments posted with the poll follow:i   ----------------   good for whom?% Is it good for HP or good for Compaq?/- Or good for both?  the question is too vague!d   -------   & Good merger for the following reasons:, 1. Economy of scale in the low end PC marketG 2. Gives entry into the Unix and Linix applications for high end users.eK Oportunity for value added sales and system solutions to more customers not  as well served by CompaqB 3. Acquires fault free Computer technology and a customer base forJ 4.Enchances HP ability to provide seamless image technology and provides a larger customer base for same.  
 ----------J  Those caught up in the debate over this merger have failed to see the bigD picture. If they step back from their daily battle, they would see aH computer industry that is on the verge of experiencing a revolution. TheF increase in semiconductor power, combined with new display technology,G miniaturization, distributed computing software, and, most importantly,iL wireless broadband communications is about to radically alter the concept ofC computing forever. HP should focus on transforming its own computerdI business. Buying another business similar to it makes no sense. It's likelH adding weight to a sinking ship. And the benefits of acquiring access toE markets served by Compaqs non-PC operations could be achieved in morei effective ways.r   -----------h  H  Cultures, the real ultimate test of a merger, are too different to everB work well together.  Compaq already has proven that in it's failedL acquisitions of Digital and Tandem.  Now throw in a forth and you are likely* to have the ultimate disfunctional family.   --------------------  C  The merger is only good for the CEO and sr. mgnt. Not employee andaL shareholders as:  1. History has told us that this will not work in the longK run. Especially for these two company that has so much overlap.  2. It give@; the board and mgnt time to hid and get rich thru severence..   ------------------  I  The founder's families are only concerned about the their own short term3L "wallets" along with the investors. What people forget that they are supposeL to invest for the long term. There is just too much competition out there inA the computer/accessories markets and now it is time for some good0I consolidation. If you choose the right people to head up the newly formed I company, they could cut costs and foster in a whole new world in computeraE technologies by utilizing the companies R&D. Otherwise, it could be auH foolish mistake if the right people are not chosen and the investors getJ their short term "wishes"! Everything is based all upon choosing the right< people and the right game plan for the newly formed company!   ---------------------o  L  This is a topic few are discussing, and missing the big picture. There is aH silicon revolution going on which will create new opportunities in smartL devices and change the landscape. The "old" HP has strength in this area. HPL has to bring together good strategic thinking and follow through on bundlingJ hardware devices and software - an area that it has not done as well as itE could. The networking companies are eager to play and this could be arF defining moment for HP. This is a great company.. sort of losts it wayG momentarily. It has to take the bold steps. How much Compaq will add isfG questionable. Let Dell and IBM hammmer out that battle - there is a new  space - go get that HP.3   -------------------   J  The HP/Compaq merger is bad for stock holders, bad for employees and mostH of all -- bad for its' customers. This is a rediculous and unnecessarilyG desperate merger plan. As solid customers of HP since 1974, our primary1D computing vendor, we are dismayed at this spectacle. HP has lost ourJ confidence in their business plans, vision, and management! A special kindK of company with a nearly unique business philosophy has now been reduced tooD a "me too" seller of commodity products which it neither invents norK manufactures. Carly Fiorina is obsessed with obtaining a #1 market position J in several market areas by any means, according to her full page ads. WhatJ about profitability? Where is the value added content that would allow forG increased operating margins? Where is the technological leadership that.K "INVENT" stands for? Where is the storied HP management that made this once K great company a success? David Packard and Bill Hewlett never made being #1eF in market share a goal and never allowed any manager in the company toH justify their plans with that argument. I know this for a fact! Bill andK Dave wanted to be the best at what they produced and to earn a fair profit. H Being #1 just means you sell more widgets than anyone else, not that youD make more money doing it. Look at Southwest Airlines for an example.K Although HP is doing great harm to itself, I am far more concerned with thexK collateral damage it is inflicting on its' customers by this disruptive and E risky merger proposal. This proposal must be rejected for the good of 	 everyone.t   --------------------  K  Proposing a merger as the only idea for a company like HP is a sign of theiL strategic bankruptcy of the Fiorino team. If the Fiorina team accuses WalterI Hewlett of offering no alternative, at least his opposition to the mergeraJ will not lead to the destruction of the company. The sooner new leadershipF comes to H-P, the sooner will this great company resume its historicalF growth and progress.  The most damaging evidence of the current failedF leadership are the letters from employees one sees only in the SiliconK Valley press. They mention abysmal employee morale and cite how rapidly the H offices and laboratories are vacated minutes after closing time, vs. theL long hours formerly contributed voluntarily by provisouly motived employees.F The "business reasons" speak against this merger because the financialL assumptions are guesses and we have no assurance that they will be realized.J However, the coroporate cultural differences are real, much more importantJ than business reasons, and doom this merger from the start.  This meger isK an ego trip for the CEO and needs to be firmly rejected by all those who doa not want to see H-P destroyed.   --------------------  K  Well said. H-P doesn't need the remains of Tandem Computer and DEC. It haswL the potential for inventing all that it needs (which Compaq has) without anyL further patent infringment. Carly's judgment needs to be questioned. It costF H-P a bundle to undo the PricewaterhouseCoopers merger. Then there wasL patent infringment do with Xerox which cost another bundle. Now she wants toJ spend gigabucks to buy a sick company. H-P doesn't need Compaq! But what aK great deal for Compaq shareholders and Compaq's senior management. It's the  green card for me.   -------------------d  J  Exactly correct! As soon as I heard the eggoist, Fiorina, bidding for CPQK (a poorly run company) I sold my positions in HWP. For the same reason thatdL I dumped our positions in GE when Jack made a bid for Honeywell, out of pure2 ego.  GE is now attractive since Jack's departure.   --------------------  D  The merger is a very bad idea. HP has always been known for quality products. Compaq has not!c  
 -------------o  L  My vote was "no" -- but there WAS an alternative that could have been a bitK more cunning. HP COULD buy only the Tandem and DEC units from Compaq. ThesedG units carry a brand that would fit well with the HP brand, of high-end,aH quality, reliability, and integrity. The consultancy practice of the DECF unit would prosecute a value-added sales model not unlike that of IBM,F providing credibility, access, and influence in major buying decisionsJ worldwide. The DEC/Microsoft relationship could also increase H-P's sphereI of influence and access, while adding a new revenue stream. Don't acquire K ALL of Compaq and its low-margin PC business and all its debt, culture, andnI other issues. These do not fit with H-P. Instead, now that you've secureddK your sphere of influence and created a broader channel for your technology,sJ invest in innovation, new technologies, miniaturization, and deliver theseI technologies with the superior quality and integrity many have learned to- rely on from H-P!-   ---------------------------P  G  The HP board must be desperate to justify their employment of Fiorina,dJ paying 48 times earnings for the company that destroyed Tandem and DEC. HPJ was not in that bad shape when she arrived, and has since done nothing butI lurch from one grand proposal to another. Which has not gone unnoticed bynK CPQ management, who jumped at the chance to dump their shares at a premium.aD If this goes through, it will be CPQ's greatest sale ever -- and CPQL management and shareholders will laugh all the way to the bank -- after they: run, not walk, to their broker to dispose of their shares.    --------------a  ;  unfortunately there is no support for a major point below.e  J 1) economies of scale make little or no difference in the PC market once aI PC maker is of only a modest size. if that were the case Dell would never F have overtaken Compaq, HP, IBM, Gateway in price and market share. TheJ business model drives cost and profitability. All this merger does is linkK two high cost PC models so more money can be lost faster than ever. examplerG Dell carries about 4 days of PC parts inventory, Compaq about 20 and HPf about 65 days!  E 2) Those customers already have access to that by buying HP (or IBM).w  I 3) True, and this is one area of Compaq that is not losing money. But itstL share of the market is declining quickly and paying $20+ billion dollars forL a approximately $1 billion dollar part of Compaq still doesn't make economic sense.  I 4) Once again true it will give HP a access to more customers, but the at J the cost of $20 billion plus and buying a money losing business and losingJ focus on customers. Still doesn't make economic sense. But it sounds good!G But then again that is what investment bankers (like Goldman Sachs) andiK consultants (Mckinsey) get paid to do. Make things sound good as they don't K have to live with the human and economic wreckage after their multi-millionvF dollar pitches are bought by ego driven executives who think bigger is> better and forget profit is really what drives business value.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 13:48:26 -0600.8 From: Scott Squires <admin@remove_this.hobbesthevax.com>3 Subject: Re: HobbesNet - free Hobbyist VMS accountsgC Message-ID: <060320021348266610%admin@remove_this.hobbesthevax.com>o  K > > Are hobbyist licenses used?  Is this legal?  My understanding was that -J > > the hobbyist license was for "personal use" and could not be combined I > > with an unlimited user license.  Or do all the users have individual   > > hobbyist licenses? > F > I don't know what their licensing situation is, but there is nothingD > (aside from price) to keep someone from using a commercial licenseB > for hobbyist purposes.  The minimum cost of a commercial licenseA > is $300 (the transfer fee from someone who want to give you thes > machine for free).  * Yes, HobbesNet is using hobbyist licenses.F Users are required to agree to the hobbyist license in order to get anB account.  And anyone violating the hobbyist license will be bannedG (haven't had to do this yet).  It is my understanding that this is ok.  = Maybe there is someone here from Compaq who can explain this.l   Regards,
 Scott Squiresi   ------------------------------   Date: 6 Mar 2002 12:33:46 CDTr= From: wayne@tachysoft.xxx.525246.killspam.00ce (Wayne Sewell) 5 Subject: Re: How to enable a tapedrive for compactiont. Message-ID: <EE0PXQT0eveg@tachxxsoftxxconsult>  g In article <be44b12d.0203060604.6904f8a9@posting.google.com>, piet@timmers-it.nl (Piet Timmers) writes:pF > Both reactions are correct, but are for tapes, not how to enable the > controller for compaction. y   /media=compact does both.c  ' >The problem is, we use the commands as H > media=compation, but this does not work because the controller has not > compaction enabled.2 >     J /media=compact is how it gets enabled!  Have you done the show dev while a  compacted backup is in progress?    Z > leslie@clio.rice.edu (Jerry Leslie) wrote in message news:<a64jg7$q0r$1@joe.rice.edu>...+ >> Piet Timmers (piet@timmers-it.nl) wrote:lC >> : The command sh dev $1$MKF200:/full gives the following output:t >> :O >> : Magtape $1$MKF200: (LNV1), device type TZ89, is online, allocated, record-)S >> :     oriented device, file-oriented device, served to cluster via TMSCP Server, M >> :     error logging is enabled, controller supports compaction (compaction - >> :     disabled), device supports fastskip.  >> :/ >> : How to enable compaction on this tapeunit?c >> : >> cB >> Use the "MEDIA_FORMAT=COMPACTION" qualifier on the INITIALIZE, $ >> MOUNT, and BACKUP commands; e.g.: >> .C >>   $ INITIALIZE/MEDIA_FORMAT=COMPACTION  $1$MKF200:  <tape label> 3 >>   $ MOUNT/MEDIA_FORMAT=COMPACTION/FOR $1$MKF200:C >> i >> and >>  % >>   $ BACKUP/MEDIA_FORMAT=COMPACTIONH >> L7 >> --Jerry Leslie     (my opinions are strictly my own)a -- dO ===============================================================================qM Wayne Sewell, Tachyon Software Consulting  (281)812-0738  wayne@tachysoft.xxxn: http://www.tachysoft.xxx/www/tachyon.html and wayne.html  K change .xxx to .com in addresses above, assuming you are not a spambot  :-) O ===============================================================================j= Society Lady:  Are you familiar with the Great Wall of China?v5        Curly:  No, but I know a big fence in Chicago!d   ------------------------------   Date: 6 Mar 2002 13:16:44 -0800s. From: SPAMSINK2001@YAHOO.COM (Alan E. Feldman)5 Subject: Re: How to enable a tapedrive for compactioni= Message-ID: <343f30ae.0203061316.74fe9f1e@posting.google.com>s  l piet@timmers-it.nl (Piet Timmers) wrote in message news:<be44b12d.0203060604.6904f8a9@posting.google.com>...F > Both reactions are correct, but are for tapes, not how to enable theC > controller for compaction. The problem is, we use the commands as.    > It should enable the controller even though "it is for tapes".    H > media=compation, but this does not work because the controller has not > compaction enabled.e    F What version of VMS? What actual commands did you use and what was theA exact output of these commands? Exact copy of all error messages?l    D Please cut and paste a typical session (or SET HOST/LOG) and post it here. Details please.n  > On my VMS V6.1 systems, INIT/MED=COMPACTION does not work, butE MOUNT/MED=COMAPCTION does. Also, BACKUP/MEDIA=COMPACTION *only* worksi if you are also using /REWIND.  A I don't bother with the BACKUP part if I've already run the MOUNTt /MEDIA=COMPACTION command.     Disclaimer: JMHO Alan E. Feldmano. afeldman asdfasdfasdf gfigroup notthisthis com6 "Help me help you help me help you."  -- Bob Patterson   ------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 19:08:15 +0000, From: Peter Boyle <pboyle@holyrood.ed.ac.uk> Subject: Re: Itanium troubles,H Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.33.0203061905170.12895-100000@holyrood.ed.ac.uk>  ( On Wed, 6 Mar 2002, Brian Tillman wrote:   > >Peter Boyle > K > I loved you in "Young Frankenstein" and now in "Everybody Loves Raymond."   7 Eh? Oh, I moonlight to supplement my academic income...    Peterk   > --C > Brian Tillman                   Internet: tillman_brian at si.comsC > Smiths Aerospace                          tillman at swdev.si.com-? > 3290 Patterson Ave. SE, MS      Addresses modified to preventh> > Grand Rapids, MI 49512-1991     SPAM.  Replace "at" with "@": >        This opinion doesn't represent that of my company >l >f >    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 14:48:11 -0500y- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>  Subject: Re: Itanium troublest+ Message-ID: <3C867279.ED41358@videotron.ca>a   Phillip Fayers wrote: D > I thought that they said that Alpha technology would exist in some > chip by 2004.   K Itanium is significantly different from Alpha. I really doubt that you will K see "Alpha technologies" embedded in IA64. However, you may see some of themM technologies used in Alpha also used in Itanium. The fact that Intel chose an U "EPIC" strategy makes a lot of the stuff that had been developped for Alpha unusable.o    H  > Hasn't there been a patent sharing agreement between Compaq and Intel > in place for sometime?    J Yes, but that was to benefit the Pentium which has a lot of "Alpha inside"K which was originally stolen, but then Palmer forgave Intel and let them usei the stuff officially.o   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 14:33:35 -0600d# From: Stuecheli <jeffas@us.ibm.com>a Subject: Re: Itanium troublese* Message-ID: <3C867D1E.28958467@us.ibm.com>   Peter Boyle wrote:  % > On Tue, 5 Mar 2002, JF Mezei wrote:e >h& > > "Scandora, Anthony (35048)" wrote: >r >IJ > Ermm... remember that the Itanic debuted at the top of the SPEC-FP list. >h  + From spec org,            base peak hw aval.+ hp 733 Itanium              494   577  6/01e+ hp 800 Itanium              526   610  6/01o. intel 1700 p4                  650   659  4/01. intel 2200 p4                  766   777  1/02' alpha 833 21264B        643   784  6/01 & alpha 1000 21264C      776   960 10/01" ibm 1.3 GHz Power4 1098 1169 12/01- sun 900 ultra III            369    410  8/01 ( sun 1050 ultra III Cu   701    827  2/02  P Itanic was not at the top of the list actually.  Beat out by intels own p4.  AndP then total whooped by other in the next few months.  Mckinley better show higherN results, but it has quite a way to go just to catch up with the other allready released products.   Jeff   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 16:53:21 -0500w- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>i Subject: Re: Itanium troubles-, Message-ID: <3C868FC7.5C55EC3F@videotron.ca>   Stuecheli wrote:- > From spec org,            base peak hw avalH- > hp 733 Itanium              494   577  6/01h- > hp 800 Itanium              526   610  6/01h0 > intel 1700 p4                  650   659  4/010 > intel 2200 p4                  766   777  1/02) > alpha 833 21264B        643   784  6/01l( > alpha 1000 21264C      776   960 10/01$ > ibm 1.3 GHz Power4 1098 1169 12/01   Not sure if this is valid, BUT:   N If one compares the ratio of spec / clock, one might get an idea of efficiency of chip.  % hp733		0.78   (peak specmark per mhz)n hp800		0.76  intel 1700	0.39o intel 2200	0.35o alpha 833	0.94 alpha 1000	0.96 
 ibm 1300	0.90r  L Is it correct to state that such a metric gives some insight on what happens when you raise the clock rate ?o  N So if the IA64 gets a just process shrink allowing comparable clock speeds, it3 will still be performing less than alpha and power.h  M So if McKinley is to become competitive, it really needs to be more than justl' process shrink and greater clock speed.-  N What puzzles me is that, although this sample is too small to draw any seriousK conclusions, both intel chips see a lower spec/mhz rating as the clock ratee@ icreases. Alpha managed to increase it between the 833 and 1000.  I Since it seems that all the extra performance in EPIC is generated by thelL compilers, can anyone comment on the state of the IA64 compilers ? Will theyK evolve significantly over the next couple of years to give IA64 much biggerh bang per mhz ?  P Or do the existing compilers already generate code that makes full use of EPIC ?    M Are there technical reasons that preclude making an IA64 at the same speed aslM the current 8086/pentiums ? I.E. is current technology capable of fabbing the L IA64 with the same mask size and clock speeds as the simpler 8086/pentiums ?= Or is the IA64 too big/complex to be fabbed at such a speed ?   N In other words, once IA64 is in full commercial production, could we expect itJ to match clock speeds with the 8086 by using the same fabbing process , orI will IA64 always be forced to be at slower clock speeds due to its highert complexity ?   ------------------------------  * Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 22:08:43 +0000 (UTC). From: peterm@CSUA.Berkeley.EDU (Peter Mardahl) Subject: Re: Itanium troublest- Message-ID: <a6641b$k7e$1@agate.berkeley.edu>a  , In article <3C868FC7.5C55EC3F@videotron.ca>,/ JF Mezei  <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote:  >Stuecheli wrote:?  >Not sure if this is valid, BUT: >tO >If one compares the ratio of spec / clock, one might get an idea of efficiencyh	 >of chip.I >N 	     (peak specmark per mhz)r >hp733		0.78  (itanium)  >hp800		0.76  (itanium)n >intel 1700	0.39  (P4) >intel 2200	0.35  (P4) >alpha 833	0.94  (21264) >alpha 1000	0.96  (21264)l >ibm 1300	0.90  (power4) >nM >Is it correct to state that such a metric gives some insight on what happens   >when you raise the clock rate ?  D Congratulations, you've demonstrated very clearly the uselessness of@ comparing different CPU families using MHz, or "work per clock".  J The two P4 machines soundly stomp the Itanium machines, **even though they@ so much less spec/MHz**.  Furthermore, the Power4 soundly stomps the P4s, at much less MHz.  E The moral of the story is that work/MHz, and MHz itself, is a USELESSsC measure of performance except within the SAME processor family, and D *even then*, it's of limited use.  A 2.6GHz Power4 isn't going to beL 2x faster than a 1.3GHz Power4, for example, but probably only 1.75x faster, or even 1.5x faster.  ? The best measure of performance is REAL applications running onn the hardware....    . >> From spec org,            base peak hw aval. >> hp 733 Itanium              494   577  6/01. >> hp 800 Itanium              526   610  6/011 >> intel 1700 p4                  650   659  4/01d1 >> intel 2200 p4                  766   777  1/02 * >> alpha 833 21264B        643   784  6/01) >> alpha 1000 21264C      776   960 10/01 % >> ibm 1.3 GHz Power4 1098 1169 12/01t >m   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 17:30:45 -0500r- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>n Subject: Re: Itanium troubles , Message-ID: <3C869888.77A0A0EF@videotron.ca>   Peter Mardahl wrote:G > The moral of the story is that work/MHz, and MHz itself, is a USELESSfA > measure of performance except within the SAME processor family,d  L Since IA64 is , for all practical purposes, still vapourware, I am trying toJ figure out what the "beta" version running at 833mhz will come out as when) they do the process shrink with McKinley.   N If they build IA64 with the same process technology as the 8086-P4s, will theyH be able to match the clock speed with the 8086s, or will the higher chipK complexity of the IA64 force Intel to produce them at a lower clock rates ?   K If the  spec/mhz is going to remain at about 0.75 for IA64's McKinley, theniN predicting what sort of clock speed will be possible using the planned processK would give a reasonable prediction of what sort of performance it can have.h   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 16:59:48 -0600-# From: Stuecheli <jeffas@us.ibm.com>  Subject: Re: Itanium troubles * Message-ID: <3C869F64.B351F8E8@us.ibm.com>   JF Mezei wrote:t   > Peter Mardahl wrote:I > > The moral of the story is that work/MHz, and MHz itself, is a USELESSlC > > measure of performance except within the SAME processor family,  >-N > Since IA64 is , for all practical purposes, still vapourware, I am trying toL > figure out what the "beta" version running at 833mhz will come out as when+ > they do the process shrink with McKinley.  >nP > If they build IA64 with the same process technology as the 8086-P4s, will theyJ > be able to match the clock speed with the 8086s, or will the higher chipM > complexity of the IA64 force Intel to produce them at a lower clock rates ?t >uM > If the  spec/mhz is going to remain at about 0.75 for IA64's McKinley, thenbP > predicting what sort of clock speed will be possible using the planned processM > would give a reasonable prediction of what sort of performance it can have.e  O Funny thing, Mckinley is not a process shrink.  It is more of a redesign.  FromuQ my understanding talking with Intel folks it went like this.  Late in the projectsN Itanic was mapped to the new .18 process.  It was not really optimized for theP .18 process.  The Itanic design was then shipped to hp for a redesign.  They areP both in a .18 process.  This redesign  included the following changes, (from the* 02 ISSCC presentation, on the hp web site)   small frequency boost to ~1 GHz  L2 cache incresed in size,* L3 cache is now on chip (slightly smaller), all cache latencies inproved by quite a bit.* More bypass paths in the fixed point unit. more epic bundles typesn + others  D With all these changes they claim a 2x - 3x increase in performance.   Jeff   ------------------------------  * Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 00:14:35 +0000 (UTC)7 From: dsiebert@excisethis.khamsin.net (Douglas Siebert)t Subject: Re: Itanium troublese+ Message-ID: <a66bdb$ffg$1@sword.avalon.net>t  % Stuecheli <jeffas@us.ibm.com> writes:t   >Peter Boyle wrote:s  K >> Ermm... remember that the Itanic debuted at the top of the SPEC-FP list.r >>  , >From spec org,            base peak hw aval, >hp 733 Itanium              494   577  6/01, >hp 800 Itanium              526   610  6/01/ >intel 1700 p4                  650   659  4/01C/ >intel 2200 p4                  766   777  1/02.( >alpha 833 21264B        643   784  6/01' >alpha 1000 21264C      776   960 10/01w# >ibm 1.3 GHz Power4 1098 1169 12/01a. >sun 900 ultra III            369    410  8/01) >sun 1050 ultra III Cu   701    827  2/02a  Q >Itanic was not at the top of the list actually.  Beat out by intels own p4.  AndbQ >then total whooped by other in the next few months.  Mckinley better show highergO >results, but it has quite a way to go just to catch up with the other allreadyn >released products.x    H You are looking at "HW available" dates, not test dates.  The P4 has hadH new compilers that bumped up its numbers, the 1.7GHz P4 at the time thatH results for Itanium were submitted was only 593.  Also, your numbers forE Itanium are wrong, it had 701 peak for HP rx4610, test date May 2001,nE HW availability June 2001.  The Alpha 833 was test date June 2001, HWS, availability June 2001 (SW not until August)  F You should have been checking the Q2 2001 (and previous) SPEC results,E not looking at all results and trying to work back.  The fact ItaniumhF topped the list in SPECfp was discussed here in comp.arch when it cameG out, though it was quite obvious that it wouldn't last there long (just : awaiting the Alpha shrink, faster P4s, POWER4, etc., etc.)   --H Douglas Siebert                          dsiebert@excisethis.khamsin.net  J A good friend will help you move, a true friend will help you move a body.   ------------------------------  * Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 00:14:14 +0000 (UTC)/ From: mccalpin@gmp246.austin.ibm.com (McCalpin)u Subject: Re: Itanium troubles 1 Message-ID: <a66bcm$h4a$1@ausnews.austin.ibm.com>u  , In article <3C868FC7.5C55EC3F@videotron.ca>,/ JF Mezei  <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote:  >Stuecheli wrote:t >g  >Not sure if this is valid, BUT: >eA >If one compares the ratio of spec / clock, one might get an ideai >of efficiency of chip.l  C Efficiency is only relevant if you have a limited resource that youhB have to conserve.   Power efficiency is important for laptops, for; example.  Delivering a high SPECratio per MHz is completelydC irrelevant, not least because there is absolutely no reason to viewl that as a design goal.  = It is also important to note that the SPEC CPU benchmarks areb? measures of the compiler plus the cache hierarchy plus the maina memory plus the processor.    & >hp733		0.78   (peak specmark per mhz) >hp800		0.76 >intel 1700	0.39 >intel 2200	0.35 >alpha 833	0.94a >alpha 1000	0.96 >ibm 1300	0.90 >bM >Is it correct to state that such a metric gives some insight on what happens   >when you raise the clock rate ?   Not really.g    O >So if the IA64 gets a just process shrink allowing comparable clock speeds, itt4 >will still be performing less than alpha and power.  A Except that we already know a lot more detail about McKinley than,? the clock frequency.  Intel has disclosed important informationrB about the tripling of bus bandwidth, the much faster on-chip cache< structure, the wider load/store units, and the extra integer> functional units.   There was even a suggestion that Intel was< claiming (implicitly) a SPECint2000 number in the 750 range.        O >What puzzles me is that, although this sample is too small to draw any seriousML >conclusions, both intel chips see a lower spec/mhz rating as the clock rate >icreases.    C This is the "normal" direction -- memory is not getting faster veryiC fast, so the portion of the time waiting on memory increases as theg8 CPU speed increases.  This leads to lower "efficiency".     7 >Alpha managed to increase it between the 833 and 1000.:  < The ES40/833 runs the CPU at 10x the memory interface speed.< The ES45/1000 runs the CPU at 8x the memory interface speed.  C I don't know the details of how the latency changed between the twoMB boxes, but the sustainable bandwidth increased by about 40% on the8 STREAM benchmark, which is twice the CPU speed increase.  B Again, I don't know about the details of the Compaq system, but itB is common to add compiler improvements between submissions of SPEC= CPU results, and it is not uncommon that later hardware fixeso% performance bugs in earlier hardware.a    @ >Are there technical reasons that preclude making an IA64 at the) >same speed as the current 8086/pentiums a  C The current Pentium4 pipeline is about twice as long as the Itanium=C pipeline.  Given that Intel's 0.18 micron transisters are all aboutAA the same speed, this means that on the Itanium processor, signalsbC are going through about twice as many gates per clock cycle.   This B gives the Itanium the ability to do more work per clock cycle, but9 at the same time limits how fast that clock cycle can be.c  @ There is no reason that an IA64-architecture processor cannot beC built with a longer pipeline to allow inflated MHz, but this is not4? the approach taken by Itanium, McKinley, and (presumably just asB shrink) Madison.  Anything beyond Madison is just wild speculation for us outsiders.... -- m9 John D. McCalpin, Ph.D.           mccalpin@austin.ibm.comrF Senior Technical Staff Member     IBM POWER Microprocessor Development-     "I am willing to make mistakes as long aso1      someone else is willing to learn from them."c   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 00:42:46 GMTs* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> Subject: Re: Itanium troublessC Message-ID: <aIyh8.127481$7a1.10834007@bin5.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>M  : "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message& news:3C869888.77A0A0EF@videotron.ca... > Peter Mardahl wrote:I > > The moral of the story is that work/MHz, and MHz itself, is a USELESSIC > > measure of performance except within the SAME processor family,r >MK > Since IA64 is , for all practical purposes, still vapourware, I am tryinge toL > figure out what the "beta" version running at 833mhz will come out as when+ > they do the process shrink with McKinley.   G McKinley sounds as if it will be an IPF member worthy of being called asH product (which is not to say it will be a *competitive* product).  It isH presumably optimized for its 180 nm. process (since the next IPF member, Madison, will debut at 130 nm).   G Intel originally hoped to ship McKinley at 1.4 GHz.  Then 1.2 GHz.  NoweL reportedly 1 GHz.  Its pipeline also was originally supposed to be 7 stages, but is now reportedly 8.   >tK > If they build IA64 with the same process technology as the 8086-P4s, wills theyJ > be able to match the clock speed with the 8086s, or will the higher chipK > complexity of the IA64 force Intel to produce them at a lower clock ratest ?   K Compare McKinley, at 1 GHz (perhaps raisable to 1.2 at some point) with 1800K nm Pentium family members at double that clock speed (at least I think theyRH hit 2 GHz before going to the 130 nm process).  In other words, no, IA64I won't come close to approaching IA32 clock rates in the same process (theeF newest Intel IA32s have a 20-stage pipeline for the express purpose ofC allowing higher clock rates, in marked contrast to the 8-stage IA64d
 pipeline).   >vH > If the  spec/mhz is going to remain at about 0.75 for IA64's McKinley, thenH > predicting what sort of clock speed will be possible using the planned processnG > would give a reasonable prediction of what sort of performance it cann have.m  H Madison may improve the spec/mhz ratio slightly, having a larger on-chipK cache, but most spec improvement will likely come from the ability to clocklK faster in the 130 nm Madison process.  In other words, the same improvementlI everyone else will get by moving to 130 nm - though I've seen suggestions0K that the longer the pipeline, the greater improvement a process shrink wille8 give you (and if that's indeed true I have no idea why).   - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 19:46:23 -0500r# From: Paul DeMone <pdemone@igs.net>  Subject: Re: Itanium troublesf' Message-ID: <3C86B85F.D7A7A37D@igs.net>    JF Mezei wrote:  [...].L > Yes, but that was to benefit the Pentium which has a lot of "Alpha inside"M > which was originally stolen, but then Palmer forgave Intel and let them use  > the stuff officially.   H GQ Bob was just being even handed. After all he let M$ rip off VMS.  ;-)   --D Paul W. DeMone       The 801 experiment SPARCed an ARMs race of EPICE Kanata, Ontario      proportions to put more PRECISION and POWER intowG demone@mosaid.com    architectures with MIPSed results but ALPHA's well $ pdemone@igs.net      that ends well.   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 04:47:13 GMTa. From: "aaron spink" <aaronspink@earthlink.net> Subject: Re: Itanium troubles F Message-ID: <lhCh8.41756$ZC3.3287269@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net>  B "Holger Bettag" <hobold@informatik.uni-bremen.de> wrote in messageD news:BCED9767330536479E416EFC52D3F9B9028E011E@pfs01.ex.nus.edu.sg...C >> Larry Gritz, programmer of the Blue Moon Rendering Tools (BMRT),i > currently  > working at Pixar,  >8G Larry Gritz is no longer with Pixar, he is currently at exluna which he   founded doing rendering engines.   Aaron Spink  speaking for Myself Inc.   ------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 21:14:16 -0800" From: Erik Magnuson <erik@cts.com> Subject: Re: Itanium troublesi: Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.4.43.0203062107160.5823-100000@erik>  # On Thu, 7 Mar 2002, McCalpin wrote:.  - >In article <3C868FC7.5C55EC3F@videotron.ca>,	0 >JF Mezei  <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote: >	P >>What puzzles me is that, although this sample is too small to draw any seriousM >>conclusions, both intel chips see a lower spec/mhz rating as the clock rate  >>icreases.  >uD >This is the "normal" direction -- memory is not getting faster veryD >fast, so the portion of the time waiting on memory increases as the8 >CPU speed increases.  This leads to lower "efficiency". >h  E Ralph Grisham's book on CDC 6000 series assembly language mentions ansI access time of 500 ns for the main core memory (in 1965). The best DRAM's J are maybe 100 times faster after 37 years? It should be noted that the maxC memory configuration is less than the on-chip cache of a few recente microprocessors.  : >John D. McCalpin, Ph.D.           mccalpin@austin.ibm.com    
 Erik Magnusoni   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 00:35:56 -0500e# From: Paul DeMone <pdemone@igs.net>  Subject: Re: Itanium troublesr' Message-ID: <3C86FC3C.D996D8DD@igs.net>    Bill Todd wrote: >  [...] 5 > Intel originally hoped to ship McKinley at 1.4 GHz.a   Where do you get this from?        --D Paul W. DeMone       The 801 experiment SPARCed an ARMs race of EPICE Kanata, Ontario      proportions to put more PRECISION and POWER intogG demone@mosaid.com    architectures with MIPSed results but ALPHA's welli$ pdemone@igs.net      that ends well.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 23:06:09 +0000r- From: Peter Harding <harding@herald.ox.ac.uk> 0 Subject: Re: LIB$CVT_FROM_INTERNAL_TIME - year??/ Message-ID: <3C86A0E1.68FEC0BA@herald.ox.ac.uk>,   Carl Perkins wrote:0 > SYS$NUMTIM  ( That's a nice clean way forward, thanks.   -- : ICQ 40628243 Tel 07092057581   ------------------------------   Date: 6 Mar 2002 23:57 CST' From: carl@gerg.tamu.edu (Carl Perkins)z0 Subject: Re: LIB$CVT_FROM_INTERNAL_TIME - year??, Message-ID: <6MAR200223570493@gerg.tamu.edu>  1 Peter Harding <harding@herald.ox.ac.uk> writes...  }Carl Perkins wrote:
 }> SYS$NUMTIMN } ) }That's a nice clean way forward, thanks.   ? Generally speaking, the system services do all the basic stuff.lA They are the first thing to check when you want basic information4C about something for which you don't want to use a language specific @ statement. (Or when there isn't one for doing it in the language@ you are using. For example, if you were using Fortran, you couldA use the intrinsic DATE_AND_TIME subroutine which returns an arrayoB in the 4th arguemnt that has all the info you get from SYS$NUMTIM,E but only for the current date and time - not to extract the info fromw an existing stored value.)  = The RTL routines cover three areas (what goes in which may bed debateable in some cases) -e  E 1) They provide simplified interfaces to the system service routines. A    Example: LIB$GETJPI vs SYS$GETJPI(W). The LIB$ version returnsfC    data for only a sinlge item code at a time, the SYS$ version cane>    return as many as you feel like getting with a single call.D    The LIB$ version is synchronous, the SYS$ version is actually twoB    versions - one synchronous and the other asynchronous. The SYS$A    version can also set an event flag and/or fire off an AST when1C    it completes, neither of which canbe done with the LIB$ version.   ? 2) They provide common features that some programming languages B    have and others don't to make them more equaly easy to use. The@    various STR$ routines are an example of this - some languagesA    have extensive stringmanipuation capabilities built into them,tF    others do not. Things like LIB$BBSSI also fall into this category -D    this is easy to do in MACRO and some languages also have language2    specific methods of doing it, but others don't.  A 3) They provide some capabilities that are rather complex but notAI    uncommon. The routine you were looking at, LIB$CVT_FROM_INTERNAL_TIME,eD    is one of these - it saves you the troble of writing a variety ofC    routines to get specific time related info that is not otherwise C    easily available. Others include LIB$DELETE_SYMBOL (not all thattH    uncommon a thing to want to do, but it would be a lot harder to do itI    without this routine). LIB$TABLE_PARSE would also be in this category.p:    The SMG$ routines are probably also this sort of thing.   --- Carl   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 23:50:11 GMTs) From: rob.buxton@wcc.govt.nz (Rob Buxton)t1 Subject: Re: List of ECOs combination that works?-2 Message-ID: <3c86aa90.1388861066@news.wcc.govt.nz>  ; A useful site for ECOs, organises by Severity Level etc. isi? http://riogrande.digital.com.au/pub/ecoinfo/ecoinfo/version.htmz  F As David noted, Update-V0100 rolls a lot of previous patches together.C I've just installed a 7.3 System from scratch, here's that Patches.c  7 DEC AXPVMS VMS73_CLUSTER V2.0       Patch       Install  06-MAR-2002 14:38:077 DEC AXPVMS VMS73_LIBRTL V2.0        Patch       Installa 06-MAR-2002 14:37:377 DEC AXPVMS VMS73_SHADOWING V2.0     Patch       Installc 06-MAR-2002 14:35:117 DEC AXPVMS VMS73_SYS V3.0           Patch       Installn 06-MAR-2002 14:34:107 DEC AXPVMS VMS73_UPDATE V1.0        Patch       Install0 06-MAR-2002 14:20:397 DEC AXPVMS DNVOSIECO01 V7.3         Patch       Installh 06-MAR-2002 14:16:157 DEC AXPVMS TCPIP_ECO V5.1-153       Patch       Installt 06-MAR-2002 14:12:257 DEC AXPVMS DECNET_OSI V7.3          Full LP     Install  04-MAR-2002 12:22:267 DEC AXPVMS DWMOTIF V1.2-6           Full LP     Installt 04-MAR-2002 12:22:267 DEC AXPVMS OPENVMS V7.3             Platform    Installr 04-MAR-2002 12:22:267 DEC AXPVMS TCPIP V5.1-15            Full LP     Installk 04-MAR-2002 12:22:267 DEC AXPVMS VMS V7.3                 Oper System Installo 04-MAR-2002 12:22:26      0 On Wed, 06 Mar 2002 09:17:47 -0500, David Beatty) <David.Beatty@qwertysasasdfgh.com> wrote:a   >o5 >I would start with VMS73_UPDATE-V0100, since it it aw8 >rollup patch of all the previous ones, then look to see0 >if there is anything necessary beyond that one. >e >David R. Beatty >3: >On Wed, 6 Mar 2002 09:24:31 +0100, zessin@decus.de wrote: >n0 >>Looks like I'll have to try a new installation/ >>with OpenVMS Alpha V7.3. Recent reports aboute, >>screwed-up ECOs have made me a little more >>carefull.i >>0 >>Does anyone have a list of ECOs available that1 >>he found working without trouble and is willingr0 >>to share it? Did you record the order in which >>you installed the ECOs?t >>
 >>Thanks, UweD >a   ------------------------------   Date: 7 Mar 2002 00:42:51 GMTt2 From: "Zane H. Healy" <healyzh@shell1.aracnet.com>= Subject: Re: Looking for OpenVMS Hobbyist CD v1 (OpenVMS 6.2) + Message-ID: <a66d2b0k1i@enews3.newsguy.com>   0 David J. Dachtera <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote: > sword7@speakeasy.org wrote:0 >> 1 >> Hello folks:  >>  G >> Well, I have OpenVMS Hobbyist CD v2 (OpenVMS 7.2) but am looking for0F >> a copy of OpenVMS Hobbytist CD v1 (OpenVMS 6.2).  Mongtar no longerD >> sells that Hobbyist CD v1 for new version (Hobbyist CD v2).  Does! >> Mongtar still has copies left?n  H > Well, if you're looking for a collector's item, that sure will be one!  K Collectors item?  Shoot, in my book the V1 CD is a far better resource thaniI the V2 CD!  There is lots of good stuff on the V1 CD!  Personally I thinkq$ Montagar should offer both versions!   			Zanea   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 04:17:17 GMTe1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>h= Subject: Re: Looking for OpenVMS Hobbyist CD v1 (OpenVMS 6.2)t' Message-ID: <3C86EB33.10EE8606@fsi.net>.   "Zane H. Healy" wrote: > 2 > David J. Dachtera <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote: > > sword7@speakeasy.org wrote:u > >> > >> Hello folks:a > >>I > >> Well, I have OpenVMS Hobbyist CD v2 (OpenVMS 7.2) but am looking forhH > >> a copy of OpenVMS Hobbytist CD v1 (OpenVMS 6.2).  Mongtar no longerF > >> sells that Hobbyist CD v1 for new version (Hobbyist CD v2).  Does# > >> Mongtar still has copies left?i > J > > Well, if you're looking for a collector's item, that sure will be one! > M > Collectors item?  Shoot, in my book the V1 CD is a far better resource than-K > the V2 CD!  There is lots of good stuff on the V1 CD!  Personally I think & > Montagar should offer both versions!  C I didn't get to see the V1. What kind of goodies are on it that are  missing from the V2?   -- 4 David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systemsu http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/m   ------------------------------   Date: 6 Mar 2002 21:02:25 -0800m) From: P.Young@unsw.EDU.AU (Patrick Young)e8 Subject: Netscape annoyance with OpenVMS CGI executables= Message-ID: <55f85d77.0203062102.1665b4a8@posting.google.com>   < I have a _REALLY_ annoying problem with certain instances of9 Netscape 4.* on PCs. This might have also been _reported_ ' with M$ Explorer but not actually seen.   ? The problem is not that common (quite uncommon really), howevere< the only solution seems to be to totally remove Netscape andF re-install. I've never seen the problem with UNIX or OpenVMS browsers.  D On the affected PCs: <form method="post" action="/htbin/my_cgi.exe">G will cause the browser to prompt to save my_cgi.exe to disk even thoughrF the method is "post". In this particular application the web server is& OSU 3.3a running on OpenVMS 7.3 Alpha.  E I can't see any obvious settings in the browser that specify files ofaE type .exe to be saved to disk. Not that file types are easily read inf3 "Edit" "Preferences..." "Navigator" "Applications".b   Has anyone experienced this?   Many thanks.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 00:23:54 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>e< Subject: Re: Netscape annoyance with OpenVMS CGI executables, Message-ID: <3C86F943.B64D08FF@videotron.ca>   Patrick Young wrote:F > On the affected PCs: <form method="post" action="/htbin/my_cgi.exe">I > will cause the browser to prompt to save my_cgi.exe to disk even though  > the method is "post".W  M When you press submit, you send an HTTP transaction to the server, the servercI responds with a document that has an http header followed by a blank line D followed by the contents. The header should have a Content-type: tag- indicating how the content should be handled.e  K So if the response fromn your POST has in undefined mime type, it is normal . for the browser to prompt you to save to disk.  C One way to debug this is to use a kermit script that sends the postm@ transaction with the right parameters and captures the response.  : Here is an example (that host no longer has that database)   if fail goto endloop SET HOST www.erin.gov.au:80e if failure end 1 cannot connect  SET TERMINAL ECHO ON ; ( OUTPUT POST /cgi-bin/ERIS.pl HTTP/1.0\13? OUTPUT Referer: http://www.erin.gov.au/database/MAN200R.html\13t  OUTPUT Connection: Keep-Alive\135 OUTPUT User-Agent: Mozilla/3.01(Macintosh; I; PPC)\13  OUTPUT Host: www.erin.gov.au\13r9 OUTPUT Content-type: application/x-www-form-urlencoded\13tR OUTPUT Content-length: \Flength("report=MAN200R&name=ab&feature=ALL&region=WA")\13
 OUTPUT \136 OUTPUT report=MAN200R&name=ab&feature=ALL&region=WA\13 CONNECT     N The response you will get will show the Content-type: of the server's responseN and may give you a good hint. In the case of OSU, it is the CGI's role to sendK the content-type string. So if my_cgi.exe doesn't send back a content-type,hJ then your browser won't have an idea what it is being given in response to
 your post.   ------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 13:39:17 -0600+ From: Christopher Smith <csmith@amdocs.com>  Subject: OpenStep for VMSsH Message-ID: <7E008308CD77154485FEF878168D078E260A90@CMIMAIL1.amdocs.com>   Hi guys,  C I remember in one of my conversations on comp.os.vms with Christof e> Brass that he (I believe it was him...) mentioned an OpenStep 7 environment was available at one time for VMS on Alpha.r  ; I have been curious about this ever since the conversation.o  A Now, I find that it may be possible for me to get a DEC 3000 very-> soon, and I would like to know more about this.  Specifically:  8 Does this actually exist (IE, is my memory faulty here)?  B What are my chances of finding this? (It _was_ sold at one point,  right?)c  + Would it run on a DEC 3000 if I do find it?a   Where should I look?    What should I expect it to cost?   Regards,   Chris:  ! Christopher Smith, Perl Developerw Amdocs - Champaign, IL   /usr/bin/perl -e '? print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n");M '   c   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 22:56:15 +0100 ' From: Brass Christof <welcome@spam.not>i Subject: Re: OpenStep for VMSh( Message-ID: <3C86907F.F73471B9@spam.not>   Christopher Smith wrote: > 
 > Hi guys, > D > I remember in one of my conversations on comp.os.vms with Christof? > Brass that he (I believe it was him...) mentioned an OpenStepi9 > environment was available at one time for VMS on Alpha.l > = > I have been curious about this ever since the conversation.1 > C > Now, I find that it may be possible for me to get a DEC 3000 veryi@ > soon, and I would like to know more about this.  Specifically: > : > Does this actually exist (IE, is my memory faulty here)? > C > What are my chances of finding this? (It _was_ sold at one point, 	 > right?)g > - > Would it run on a DEC 3000 if I do find it?r >  > Where should I look? > " > What should I expect it to cost? > 
 > Regards, >  > Chriss > # > Christopher Smith, Perl Developere > Amdocs - Champaign, IL >  > /usr/bin/perl -e 'A > print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n");s > '  >   = Yup, I stated so and I still remember that it was advertised o< by *NeXT*! At that time I was already a VMS afficionado but ? new to NeXTSTEP and wondered on which systems the applications r< could be run. And voil - VMS was listed. Unfortunately I'm 9 not sure at the moment whether it was VAX or Alpha but I n7 assume it was Alpha. And I still have the flyer around u: somewhere but I don't think you'll be able to buy/get it.  Good luck anyway!f   -- m6 moc dot slupofni at ssarb - please revert the sequence   ------------------------------   Date: 6 Mar 2002 14:49:59 -0600e- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)l* Subject: Re: OPENVMS-HOBBYIST License PAK?3 Message-ID: <ZU1kgxHvEkC5@eisner.encompasserve.org>l  T In article <3C865F3E.5080100@bluewin.ch>, Paul Sture <paul.sture@bluewin.ch> writes: > Phillip Helbig wrote:  > = >>>(Paul Sture, In Switzerland, do you load one, two or three  >>> language variant PAKs?)- >>>- >>>:^) >>>- >>  : >> Four.  About 1% of the population speak Rhaeto-Romansh. >> o > K > Correct in the number of official languages, but I don't think there's a n > VMS PAK for Rhaeto-Romansch.  F Too bad.  My wife was _very_ impressed by the previous indication that there was such a PAK.n   ------------------------------   Date: 7 Mar 2002 00:24:45 +0100t* From: eplan@kapsch.net (Peter LANGSTOEGER)* Subject: Re: OPENVMS-HOBBYIST License PAK?* Message-ID: <3c86a53d$1@news.kapsch.co.at>  T In article <3C865CB3.9040702@bluewin.ch>, Paul Sture <paul.sture@bluewin.ch> writes:: >On the VAX, DECwrite will fire up, but only in demo mode.  I I once had this too. I'd DECwrite US and German installed but only German-I licensed. DECwrite insisted on firing up the US version and therefor only $ in demo mode. IIRC, I solved it with  - 	$ DECWRITE == "$DECWRITE -xnlLanguage de_de"l    Maybe your problem is related...   -- a< Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER           Tel.    +43 1 81111 2651; Network and OpenVMS system manager  Fax.    +43 1 81111 8888< KAPSCH AG      Wagenseilgasse 1     E-mail  eplan@kapsch.netH A-1121 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              "I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist"   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 21:03:35 GMTh4 From: LESLIE@209-16-45-102.insync.net (Jerry Leslie)= Subject: OT: Eric Raymond Talk/Webcast In Houston On March 14aC Message-ID: <Huvh8.285349$Aw2.22776063@bin7.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>>7 Keywords: eric,raymond,talk,webcast,houston,open,source.  > This may be of interest to those VMSers planning to attend the* March 13 OpenVMS gettogether in Houston...  ' From: riddle@rice.edu (Prentiss Riddle)@- Newsgroups: houston.efh.talk,houston.general,t4             comp.os.linux.advocacy,comp.software-engH Subject: Eric Raymond to speak/webcast on Open Source at Rice University- Followup-To: houston.efh.talk,houston.generalm Date: 5 Mar 2002 17:39:59 GMTg1 Organization: Rice University, Shoal Creek campusm	 Lines: 37n' Message-ID: <a62vtf$9ue$2@joe.rice.edu>e NNTP-Posting-Host: is.rice.eduM X-Trace: joe.rice.edu 1015349999 10190 128.42.42.24 (5 Mar 2002 17:39:59 GMT)o X-Complaints-To: abuse@rice.edu * NNTP-Posting-Date: 5 Mar 2002 17:39:59 GMT# X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2]r  > I saw this go by and thought readers of these newsgroups might appreciate this announcement.f    G     "The Open Source Revolution: How Software Engineering Might Finallyi     Grow Up"          a lecture and webcast by          Eric S. Raymond &     President, Open Source Initiative           Thursday, March 14, 2002 j     4:00 PM CSTt     #     Duncan Hall McMurtry Auditoriums#     Rice University, Houston, Texas      .     Live webcast: http://www.rice.edu/webcast/     5     A reception in Martel Hall will follow the talk.       D     Eric S. Raymond is an observer-participant anthropologist in the@     Internet hacker culture. His research has helped explain theD     decentralized open-source model of software development that hasA     proven so effective in the evolution of the Internet. His own D     software projects include one of the Internet's most widely-usedC     email transport programs. Mr. Raymond is also a science fiction-E     fan, a musician, an activist for the First and Second Amendments,$C     and a martial artist with a Black Belt in Tae Kwon Do. His home2)     page is at http://www.tuxedo.org/~esr-    	 Have fun.e  H -- Prentiss Riddle ("aprendiz de todo, maestro de nada") riddle@rice.eduI -- Webmaster, Rice University | http://is.rice.edu/~riddle | 281-924-3630t   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 23:55:02 GMTk) From: rob.buxton@wcc.govt.nz (Rob Buxton)i/ Subject: Re: Pathworks with Windows 2000 clienti2 Message-ID: <3c86ab86.1389107561@news.wcc.govt.nz>  D And we recently upgraded to Pathworks 6.1 because we want to be ableE to exist in a "native" windows environment. Not really sure what thatnB means - very MS'y but it has allowed us to make the Servers Member- Servers instead of Backup Domain Controllers.u  ? Note - it does require a different PW license, must be the 7.03 C variant. I do nknow that PW prior to 6.0D could be a bit shaky evenM without W2000.  3 On Wed, 6 Mar 2002 13:21:10 -0400, "Malcolm Davies"f <malcolm.davies@cw.com> wrote:  L >I upgraded to PWRK v6.0D for Win2000 client support, but still getting someI >problems, see related posts dated 13 and 14 Feb frm me with many repliesv& >from other helpful Pathworks experts. >Y= >"Dave Gudewicz" <david.gudewicz@abbott.com> wrote in messageg3 >news:a6570e$67n$1@fizban.fizban.pprd.abbott.com...rK >> Don't think that PW v6 supports W2000, but Advanced Server v7.3 does.  IsF >> don't know the details, sorry.  We've tested 2000 and XP against an	 >Advancedh" >> Server and it seems to work OK. >>? >> Trouble is Advanced Server minimum VMS requirement is 7.2-1.  >>
 >> Dave... >>3 >> "Karl Moehr" <k_moehr@yahoo.de> wrote in message : >> news:72e3dad6.0203060016.5970ccfd@posting.google.com... >> > Hi, >> >' >> > Maybe somebody can give me a hint.sI >> > I have an Alpha running Open VMS ver. 7.1 and Pathworks ver. 6.0. On 0 >> > the server I have setup a number of Shares.F >> > All was running fine when connecting to the shares with an NT 4.0G >> > client, till one of my colleagues upgraded his PC to Windows 2000.vI >> > When this colleague connects to one of the shares on the server, allrJ >> > Lan Manager processes  die after a few minutes. After that nobody canF >> > connect to the shares anymore and all prior connections are lost.H >> > Has anybody ever experienced this before and maybe has a remedy for >> > the problem.t >> > >> > Thanks, Karlw >> >> >s >    ------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 19:50:17 -0500+ From: "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@Compaq.com>r/ Subject: RE: Pathworks with Windows 2000 client_T Message-ID: <BE56C50EA024184DAF48F0B9A47F5CF4016CEB5F@kaoexc01.americas.cpqcorp.net>   Nick,n    >>> This is soooooooo typical.<<  G >>> "You" are only suffering because you've chosen to make VMS the poorg' cousin of the 'upgrade' environment.<<<f   Yup, could not agree more.=20e  ? Case in point - how much sympathy would you get tomorrow if youo= complained to MS that your NT4 SP3 server was having problemsd interoperating with W2K SP2?   :-)s  1 Hint - NT4 SP3 was also '97 timeframe. Reference:oH ftp://ftp.microsoft.com/bussys/winnt/winnt-public/fixes/usa/NT40/ussp3/i 386/   Regards,  
 Kerry Main Senior ConsultantR Compaq Canada Corp.  Professional Services  Voice: 613-592-4660V Fax  :  819-772-7036 Email: Kerry.Main@Compaq.com     -----Original Message-----2 From: Nic Clews [mailto:sendspamhere@127.0.0.1]=20 Sent: March 6, 2002 12:19 PM To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com / Subject: Re: Pathworks with Windows 2000 client3     Dave Gudewicz wrote: >=20G > Don't think that PW v6 supports W2000, but Advanced Server v7.3 does.   J > I don't know the details, sorry.  We've tested 2000 and XP against an=20* > Advanced Server and it seems to work OK. >=20> > Trouble is Advanced Server minimum VMS requirement is 7.2-1.  4 >"Karl Moehr" <k_moehr@yahoo.de> wrote in message...   This is soooooooo typical.   VMS 7.1 released in 1997. 2 W2000 released in (2001?) and still being patched.  C "You" are only suffering because you've chosen to make VMS the poor2$ cousin of the 'upgrade' environment.   --=20S( Regards, Nic Clews CSC Computer Sciences nclews at csc dot com9   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 22:38:15 GMT * From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>Y Subject: Re: R.I.P. OpenVMS - ISS Recommends That H-P Holders Vote in Favor of Compaq Acqh@ Message-ID: <rTwh8.75369$Dh.7157132@bin2.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>  ? "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net> wrote in messagee7 news:tbph8.11102$Hf7.31447@rwcrnsc51.ops.asp.att.net...a   ...R  I > HWP just killled one proprietary OS, one that delivered a hell of a lotl lessL > revenue than VMS. I doubt they are stupid enough to kill the VMS cash cow.J > If so, it's time for Shannon KNEW Compaq, a detailed expose of where theD > bodies are buried, etc... and then on to bigger and better things.  H Carly and Curly certainly do appear to have very similar philosophies inK multiple dimensions that don't bode that well for VMS's future (whether thee? merger goes through or not) - just as they boded ill for Alpha:   E 1.  they prefer to buy other people's technology rather than build it0 themselves (strike 1 for VMS),  L 2.  they prefer 'commodity' technology to 'proprietary' technology (strike 2	 for VMS),V  J 3.  they prefer me-too products (at least in the general computing space -I one or both of them actually came out and said this directly recently) toeJ products that actively differentiate them from their competitors (strike 3	 for VMS).l  J Possibly the driving force behind those preferences is that they prefer toG make their money servicing products rather than selling them.  However,oI exactly how they expect to keep those lucrative service contracts if they-F aren't selling the products that generate them - 'enterprise' productsD having generated something like 90% of the $7 billion annual serviceJ revenue, IIRC, and we know from the recent Compaq rebuttal to Gartner thatL VMS alone generates $2 billion of that $7 billion, with Tru64 presumably not# too far behind - is far from clear.l  I Consider Tru64.  Unlike MPE, it *does* (or at least recently did) deliveraC revenue fairly comparable to VMS's ($3 billion vs. VMS's $4 billion L annually).  While 4th in Unix market share, it was growing noticeably fasterH (up to 30% annually as of 2000Q4) than its Sun/IBM/HP larger competitionC (and a great deal faster than VMS, for that matter) and commanded acB respectable portion of the Unix server market (IIRC around 10%, asE contrasted with the 20% - 30% shares of the Big Three - and, as noted J elsewhere, enough to generate a great deal more profit for Compaq than its- PC divisions have any time in recent memory).i  F In other words, a very promising business in its own right.  But whileJ Compaq may not have neglected it quite as much as it neglects VMS, neither did it value it.  L The fact that a fair amount of the Tru64 business (certainly a great deal ofI the business that otherwise felt 'Unix is Unix', regardless of the brand)CK was due to Alpha's superior performance didn't save Alpha - but you *could* B attribute this to the utter incompetence of Compaq's management inB understanding how superior Alpha was, and would remain, to Itanic.  F However, the fact that a fair amount of the rest of the Tru64 businessJ (those customers who *do* believe that some Unixes are better than others)I was due to Tru64's differentiating features didn't save the Tru64 port tooH Itanic - *even though a great deal of the work for that port had alreadyH been done in (?) Bravo*.  In fact, Curly was purportedly sniffing aroundC HP/UX as a replacement for Tru64 before the merger discussions evenrL started - because he squinted at HP/UX market share and assumed that becauseL it was higher than Tru64's then just naturally it had to be a better product than Tru64.p  J In other words, these people are abject idiots who will *never* understandG the value of products like VMS (just as they had no clue about Alpha or-H Tru64).  They'll remain idiots if they get merged into HP.  And, just asG Compaq listened to the idiots they acquired with DEC, so will HP likelyeI listen to the idiots they acquire with Compaq, especially since their ownr6 leadership doesn't seem to have much of a clue either.  K So there's very *good* reason to suspect that they will be stupid enough todK kill VMS if given the opportunity.  That's why I continue to favor whatever J action it takes to ensure that they will not have that opportunity - whichI at the moment seems to require that the merger be defeated, with the hopehL that the result of that will be a top-down house-cleaning which replaces theK incumbents with people who, even if they don't have a clue themselves, willi! at least listen to people who do.o   - bill   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 03:39:18 GMTn# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>gY Subject: Re: R.I.P. OpenVMS - ISS Recommends That H-P Holders Vote in Favor of Compaq Acqt/ Message-ID: <GhBh8.26374$xG.115@news2.bloor.is>e  : "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message& news:3C86A884.46206098@videotron.ca... >HJ > Until they are weined from VMS's profits, they won't be able to kill it. If HPTG > can grow its wintel business enough to make it profitable and compete  against I > Dell, then they'll kill VMS. But they need its revenus to subsidize ther wintel* > operation until the later is profitable. >rH > Same policy as under Palmer, except that they are implementing it with greatere > agility and slower pace. >O  E I'm afraid you give Curly far too much credit to be this smart. GivensJ everything he's shown us to-date, I'm surprised OVMS has lasted as long asL it has. If CPQ had any sense at all about what was good for their enterprise6 customers, they wouldn't be doing what they have done.  I The bottom line is that CPQ, and I'm sure HP, are saying that OVMS is the-J Ferrari/Mecedes/BMW of operating systems, but that what seems to sell bestH are Yugo's (wintel) and Chevy's (unix and its variants). So they want toL play a 'me too, me too' game and step down to the lowest common denominator. Pity.     K My business has been adversely affected by much of what Digital, and Compaq.G have done to the company. Going back to Ken Olsen's comments about unix J being 'snake oil', and all the unibus and other hardware licensing issues,I is the time I measure the decline of Digital from. Don't get me wrong - I J too happen to think that for most commercial applications unix is not whatH OVMS is, but it would have been far better for Olsen to have said, 'Yes,I unix is snake oil. But we're going to sell you the best damn snake oil on0K the planet.' Keeping VAX/VMS price/performance priced at multiples to those?I available from Sun, et al.. certainly didn't help matters either. DigitalpL sure could have used the billions of dollars of revenue that instead went toK Sun, revenue that could have gone to OVMS, marketing Alpha, and a myriad of = other things beneficial to me, and my business. Spilled milk.t  J Slick Bob, of coiffed hair, too sold/dismembered much of the software that/ gave Digital distinct advantages. Spilled milk.   L And Curly, et al... have decided that in the parlance of the current buzz inD management, that they are/were going to slim Compaq down to its core: competencies....'cept they forgot which ones they were andK downsized/cut/mis-marketed the things that truly made a difference. Spilled  milk.p  L Where the F! do I find staff who WANT to work on OVMS these days? Everyone IL interview wants to do unix/linux or freakin' Windows 2000 Enterprise Server,K not VMS. Where do I find customers who are smart enough to know that havingpL the best doesn't necessarily cost more money up-front, and can actually costI less to run in staff costs and downtime? They can't be found because they,G don't know any f!cking better, because the message isn't getting out topH them. I try, I really do. Customers ask me what overall solution packageK best meets their reliability and availability needs and I suggest somethingeI based on Alpha & VMS, they tell me that they meant a unix solution - theyiG say 'isn't Alpha that dead thing, and what's VMS?' - and those kinds ofo: comments are from years ago and impossible to avoid today.  K Who of you who build and sell  software for a living can say that your OVMSaI business is a big as it ever was in units of sales, not dollars (allowingo; for inflation, or responding to unix/M$ pricing pressures)?    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 18:39:01 -0500-- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>rY Subject: Re: R.I.P. OpenVMS - ISS Recommends That H-P Holders Vote in Favor of Compaq Acqe, Message-ID: <3C86A884.46206098@videotron.ca>   Bill Todd wrote:J > Carly and Curly certainly do appear to have very similar philosophies inM > multiple dimensions that don't bode that well for VMS's future (whether theoA > merger goes through or not) - just as they boded ill for Alpha:   M I agree. The one puzzling thing though is the very conspicusou absence of VMSnL in HP stuff. This could mean that it is either extremely under the radar andJ will just be ignored by Carly, or that they have something up their sleeve+ that would be a significant change for VMS.-  L Perhaps VMS is being kept secret as a wildcard that could be sold should theL FTC decide that the merger woudln't be good for competition. Or perhaps theyL do intent to give VMS its final "coup de grce" pretty quickly but will waitB for all merger papers to be signed before making the announcement.  M The only thing that is certain is that HPaq have made a consencious effort toaM omit VMS from their presentations/speeches/letters. It is only normal that wet% speculate on why they have done that.m  K > Consider Tru64.  Unlike MPE, it *does* (or at least recently did) deliverlE > revenue fairly comparable to VMS's ($3 billion vs. VMS's $4 billion N > annually).  While 4th in Unix market share, it was growing noticeably fasterJ > (up to 30% annually as of 2000Q4) than its Sun/IBM/HP larger competition  K Once management has decided that a product is not key to the company's long M term success, and once they have decided that Linux will take-over all of theEL Unix market and share enterprise space with Windows, then management acts onL that religious belief. And guess what, it becomes a self fulfilling prophecyC because customers don't have much choice but to go with that trend.p       >- but you *could*D > attribute this to the utter incompetence of Compaq's management inD > understanding how superior Alpha was, and would remain, to Itanic.  M Management must have been fully aware of that. The decision to kill alpha wasyJ purely political to strike some deal with Intel. Until Compaq releases theL details of that deal, we won't know how compelling it was for Compaq to jumpJ off a plane without a parachute in the hopes that Intel would deliver one  BEFORE THEY HIT THE GROUND.u  " Compaq truly took a leap of faith.  L > In other words, these people are abject idiots who will *never* understandI > the value of products like VMS (just as they had no clue about Alpha or0	 > Tru64).G  I I understand the value of gold, but I don't want to be in the gold miningeL business. Compaq understand the value of Alpha and VMS, but it wants to be aK wintel manufacturer and doesn't want to get involved with that thing called M VMS which is far too complex for its capabilities. It wants to get some smalleK motherboards shipped from taiwan, screw them into a metal box received from M China, and package in it a cardboard box made in Canada. Designing stuff such N as Wildfires is way above Compaq's head and they don't want to get involved in such complex machines.  ) VMS is handmade furniture fit for a king. # Compaq wants to assemble IKEA kits.n  M > So there's very *good* reason to suspect that they will be stupid enough tot$ > kill VMS if given the opportunity.  N Until they are weined from VMS's profits, they won't be able to kill it. If HPM can grow its wintel business enough to make it profitable and compete against N Dell, then they'll kill VMS. But they need its revenus to subsidize the wintel( operation until the later is profitable.  N Same policy as under Palmer, except that they are implementing it with greater agility and slower pace.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 23:15:06 -0500t- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>aY Subject: Re: R.I.P. OpenVMS - ISS Recommends That H-P Holders Vote in Favor of Compaq Acq-, Message-ID: <3C86E928.8347D1F0@videotron.ca>   John Smith wrote:wG > I'm afraid you give Curly far too much credit to be this smart. GiveniL > everything he's shown us to-date, I'm surprised OVMS has lasted as long asN > it has. If CPQ had any sense at all about what was good for their enterprise8 > customers, they wouldn't be doing what they have done.  H Two years ago, Compaq's big cheeses seriously considered killing VMS andI decided against it because they knew that they would lose too many of the K profitable customers. After that decision, VMS was even given a short livedeL renaissance period to stop the negative growth of VMS. Once stabilized, they stopped it.e    K Shirley, during his pillow talk with Carly, Curly would have told her aboutlN the VMS disease that Compaq has been unable to get rid of.  He would have toldL her that they couldn't cut it off yet because of the money it generates, butF as long as you keep it covered under the bedsheets, nobody notices it.  L Perhaps one reason Carly has specifically avoided mentioning VMS is that sheG expects Curly to get rid of the disease before the wedding is consumed.0  K > The bottom line is that CPQ, and I'm sure HP, are saying that OVMS is theb+ > Ferrari/Mecedes/BMW of operating systems,   K No, I think they are portraying VMS more as the Aston Martin. Cool featuressD with lots of gadgets, but no market nor any growth potential for it.      D > Where the F! do I find staff who WANT to work on OVMS these days?   I I am willing to work VMS for food, but of course, would prefer a job thats) provides retraining in marketable skills.i   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 19:07:02 GMTn1 From: "Mark D. Jilson" <jilly@clarityconnect.com>v+ Subject: Re: TCPIP$FTP hangs in MUTEX state 2 Message-ID: <3C866913.65A0953D@clarityconnect.com>  F Realize that if it is a BYTLM issue that there only needs to be 1 lessF byte available then needed to create the MUTEX state (the MUTEX is theE JIB btw)  SO if the process wants to do a buffered IO of 10,000 bytesmF and bytcnt says 9999 then the process could go into MUTEX.  My rule is5 that if tqcnt<>0 then it is BYTLM.  ALso realize thatMH f$getjpi(pid,"bytlm") is only returning the usable BYTLM and to see what@ the process was originally created with one needs to look at theF JIB$L_ORG_BYTLM.  BTW an enhancement to GETJPI to return this item has3 been requested but has not made it into GETJPI yet.    Chris wrote: > l > spi@equicon.de (Joerg Spilling) wrote in message news:<dfc30fc1.0203060316.73c5cd7d@posting.google.com>...B > > Hi folks, I need some ideas or help for the following problem: > 
 > Hi Jrg. > F > > I'm running OpenVMS 7.3 on as DS20e, TCP/IP V5.1 ECO 3 and I think9 > > that I have most of the recent 7.3 patches installed.. > >uH > > In my application, I have many PC's connecting to the server via FTPJ > > and download some files. After some times, the FTP process goes in theI > > MUTEX state (all what I can do is reboot?). Starting and stopping FTP-G > > don't work (because of MUTEX state). I'm currently not able to find=; > > out on what MUTEX the process hangs. Any ideas or help?  > J > I had a similar problem running OpenVMS v7.2-1 and TCPware v5.4-3.  Same? > situation though, many PC's connecting to the AS4100 via FTP.. > H > It turned out that the TQELM for the FTP Server process was exhausted. > Q > You can check your available timer queue entries with f$getjpi(pid,"tqcnt") andr4 > f$getjpi(pid,"tqlm") for the total number allowed. > D > It could also be a problem with your BYTLM, which you can get with3 > f$getjpi(pid,"bytcnt") and f$getjpi(pid,"bytlm").  > E > You can also use SDA to determine exactly which one is the problem.aJ > I don't remember the specifics, but I should still have the article thatL > explains how to check it (I can send it to you, if you'd like and if I can > find it).  > M > I had to modify the command procedure which created the FTP Server process.uP > Increasing the maximum number of timer queue entries that the process can have8 > by changing the /QUEUE_LIMIT quota in the RUN command. > K > I hope that helps (and that I'm accurate, since this is all from memory).e >  > Chris1 >  > >3G > >Perhaps anyone can tell me, which newer patches are really required?r > >y	 > >Cheersa > >Jrge   -- lD Jilly	- Working from Home in the Chemung River Valley - Lockwood, NY0 	- jilly@clarityconnect.com			- Brett Bodine fan. 	- Mark.Jilson@Compaq.com			- since 1975 or so, 	- http://www.jilly.baka.com               -   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 23:13:00 +0100e From: Dirk Munk <munk@home.nl>6 Subject: Re: Telnet to OpenVMS - unknown terminal type& Message-ID: <3C86946C.6070801@home.nl>  E I think you should check sylogin.com or login.com. The login process rC itself does not check for the terminal type. There should be a set VA term/inq command in syslogin.com or login.com (or whatever login h commandfile you use).M        Jaan Kronberg wrote:  
 >Hi there, >sK >I'm trying to write small program (Perl or VB, depending on system - Linux J >or Windows), that will log into OpenVMS and perform some tasks there. AndL >everything works ok, except - after login vms tries to set terminal type orI >smth and that takes a lot of time... I tried to set term/dev=vt100[vt200oF >etc], but it can be done only after login, so, it doesn't help much.. > 1 >Any suggestions? System is Alpha OpenVMS 7-2.1..s >i( >%SET-W-NOTSET, error modifying TNA9933:& >-SET-I-UNKTERM, unknown terminal type( >%SET-W-NOTSET, error modifying TNA9933:& >-SET-I-UNKTERM, unknown terminal type >e >thx,m >jke >t >t   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 18:14:25 -05006- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>c6 Subject: Re: Telnet to OpenVMS - unknown terminal type+ Message-ID: <3C86A2C2.4BE89BE@videotron.ca>c  I Ok, I traced a good old VT220 on VMS 7.2, and here is the interaction: (Ln; denotes stuff sent by VMS, R is for stuff sent by terminal)3  ' L:48:10:26-   3 *[c		who are you ? (DA)H                 156                  BB3t  " R:48:10:61-  18 *[?62;1;2;6;7;8;9c"                 153333333333333336"                 BBF62B1B2B6B7B8B93  G 62=level 3 (says VT300, but this is the response sent by a real VT220).  1 = 132 columns capablen 2 = printer port 6 = selective erasea 7 = soft character set 8 = user defined keyst 9 = NRC sets   possible responses:p! 	<esc> [ ? 1 ; 2 c	VT100 terminal  	<esc> [ ? 1 ; 0 c	VT101	h 	<esc> [ ? 6 c		VT102 terminal7 	<esc> [ ? 62 ; 1 ; 2 ; 6 ; 7 ; 8 ; 9 ; 11 ; 14 c	VT220t  " L:48:11:08-  18 *7*[255;255H*[6n*8"                 131533333334153613"                 B7BB255B2558BB6EB8  $ <esc>7 is save cursor position/state7 <esc>[255,255H means put cursor at line 255 column 255. * <esc>[6n means ask current cursor position- <esc>* means restore to saved cursor positiond  M (in essence: put your cursor that the bottom most and right most position andt3 tell me where it is, then go back to where you wereo   R:48:11:53-   8 *[24;80R                 15333335                 BB24B802  J terminal responds with I am at line 24, column 80, essentially telling the host its screen size.l      8 For more information, you can go to http://www.vt100.org   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 23:25:33 GMTfL From: winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU ("Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr")6 Subject: Re: Telnet to OpenVMS - unknown terminal type8 Message-ID: <00A0A8AB.9ED10577@SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>  K [complete snippage - somebody is writing code in PERL on Linux and in VB onlH Windows to telnet into a VMS system and it gets hung up on SET TERM/INQ]  N Incidentally, if you just want to get work done, you might be a lot better offM using Kermit (built in telnet client, scripting language, terminal emulation,lD and the ability to use the _same scripts_ on Linux and Windows) than reinventing the wheel.  L If you're just coding for fun or self-education, then carry on with Perl and VB.e   kermit.columbia.edu for info.h   -- AlanV      O =============================================================================== 0  Alan Winston --- WINSTON@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDUM  Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056hM  Physical mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 69, PO BOX 4349, STANFORD, CA  94309-0210tO ===============================================================================    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 21:53:26 +0100-) From: labadie <labadie.gerard@wanadoo.fr> * Subject: Re: What is DTSC in a VMS context* Message-ID: <3C8681C6.2002AB27@wanadoo.fr>   Tim Llewellyn wrote:   > Hi > 3 > Anyone know what DTSC is, altavista and searchinge* > www.openvms.compaq.com reveals no clues. >r  F If you talk about the post in jobserve, may be it is Dcsc, a tool that workse along wich Sls and Abs.y   Regardsb     Grard   ------------------------------   Date: 6 Mar 2002 13:45:46 -0800l1 From: keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com (Keith Parris) * Subject: Re: What is DTSC in a VMS context= Message-ID: <cf15391e.0203061345.48d5f3ef@posting.google.com>   l Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message news:<3C864943.F926C18E@blueyonder.co.uk>...4 > Anyone know what DTSC is, altavista and searching * > www.openvms.compaq.com reveals no clues.  @ Could the reference have been to DTCS, Disaster Tolerant Cluster	 Services?n  F That's Compaq's solution for building a disaster-tolerant VMS cluster,E replacing Business Recovery Server (BRS), which was originally calledm  Multi-Datacenter Facility (MDF).? ---------------------------------------------------------------m? Keith Parris | parris at encompasserve dot org | Consulting on:i> Clusters, Disaster Tolerance, Performance, I/O, Storage & SANs   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 23:51:32 GMTv4 From: Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@blueyonder.co.uk>* Subject: Re: What is DTSC in a VMS context0 Message-ID: <3C86AA59.52BF3EE6@blueyonder.co.uk>   Keith Parris wrote:t > n > Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message news:<3C864943.F926C18E@blueyonder.co.uk>...5 > > Anyone know what DTSC is, altavista and searchingi, > > www.openvms.compaq.com reveals no clues. > B > Could the reference have been to DTCS, Disaster Tolerant Cluster > Services?u  G Thats what I thought, but I couldn't find it on www.openvms.compaq.com.e  / Actually, I did just find it on www.compaq.com.    regardst   > H > That's Compaq's solution for building a disaster-tolerant VMS cluster,G > replacing Business Recovery Server (BRS), which was originally calledn" > Multi-Datacenter Facility (MDF).  d -- Tim.Llewellyn@cableinet.co.uk  a  C Standard disclaimer applies. My views in no way represent those of d! my employers or service provider.t   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 19:00:05 GMT " From: "Hans Vlems" <hvlems@iae.nl>; Subject: Re: What VMS version runs on a Digital Server 3000 / Message-ID: <VGth8.86$kH2.2621@typhoon.bart.nl>p   Alan,r  E the Alpha/VMS CD startup has an option to go into (limited) DCL mode.tH That's what I did, and on the $$$ prompt it was possible to INIT/SYS the target disk.F Once that was done the installation of VMS continued without problems.  L At this point in time I can boot VMS but there are no licenses installed yet" so the OPA0 ASCII is all there is. Problem/challenge overview:yF 1) the IBM PC keyboard hangs as soon as the CTRL key is used. The same happensd. if the system isn't used for a period of time.J 2) the box has no ethernet but only a Madge tokenring adapter. Very likely
 not supported . under VMS, but ethernet is not that expensive.  H Tomorrow I'll load PAK's and try to get into Motif. There is an S3 video adapter andn$ that does not seem to exotic, right?   Hans  L "Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr" <winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU> wrote= in message news:00A0A84C.9BE25753@SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU...vH > In article <3c85f815$1@zfree.co.nz>, "Hans Vlems" <hvlems@zfree.co.nz> writes:r > >a > >Jeff, > > = > >the Alpha now boots from the AXP/VMS V7.3 installation CD.o> > >I tried to boot after each step and step 3, set srm_boot onA > >did the trick. It apparently creates a new variable and allows0 > >VMS to boot from CD.eH > >The next question is: how can I format the disk as a Files-11 volume.> > >DKA0 now has NT4 on it and is (probably) formatted as NTFS. >6J > So now you're running VMS from the CD, right?  If you do a fresh installJ > on the system disk (which is one of the menu options on the installationD > CD), it will INIT the disk as a FILES-11 device and put VMS on it. >tJ > (However, if you want to do this yourself, you can choose the "execute a DCLi7 > command" menu option and then $ INIT DKA0: yourself.)  >lL > VMS isn't going to recognize NTFS as a file system, and even if it did, it > would let you init it. >m	 > -- Alanh > >l >e >hL ============================================================================ === 2 >  Alan Winston --- WINSTON@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDUA >  Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:o 650/926-3056C >  Physical mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 69, PO BOX 4349, STANFORD, CA 
 94309-0210 >oL ============================================================================ ===t >a   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 19:05:03 GMTp" From: "Hans Vlems" <hvlems@iae.nl>; Subject: Re: What VMS version runs on a Digital Server 3000T/ Message-ID: <zLth8.87$kH2.2619@typhoon.bart.nl>y  
 Hallo Jeroen,   I there's no reason to keep whatever was left on the NT4 disk. VMS can readlK NTFS volumes thru a layered product but not by itself, nor can it dual boot  from ann9 NT4 system disk. Not that I'd particularly want that BTW. K The problem was just that VMS did not want to install on the NTFS formatted  disk.sJ Once I did that manually (via the $$$ prompt on the Alpha/VMS distribution CD)rJ all went well. Don't know  why but the box now boots VMS. In an all OS/390 and WNTb: shop I felt a little alone without a VMS system nearby....   Hans  @ Dijk, Jeroen van <Jeroen.vanDijk@Getronics.com> wrote in messageI news:2795B75EF003D311801A00A0C906B511011C6D5D@cucexec.gbc.getronics.nl...sK > Remove the NT4 disk from the system or backup it, if you want to preserveI it.. > D > I haven't heard of if VMS can read NTFS volumes, but if you want a dualboot system.9 > Just leave it on DKA0 and install VMS on an other disk.s >t > >e	 > > Jeff,a > >l> > > the Alpha now boots from the AXP/VMS V7.3 installation CD.? > > I tried to boot after each step and step 3, set srm_boot onnB > > did the trick. It apparently creates a new variable and allows > > VMS to boot from CD.I > > The next question is: how can I format the disk as a Files-11 volume.o? > > DKA0 now has NT4 on it and is (probably) formatted as NTFS.) > >  > > Hans > >e0 > > Jeff Campbell <jcampbell@ins-msi.com> wrote:I > > >The DS 3300 is a "white box" AlphaServer 800 hobbled to run NT only.n > > >e' > > >To run VMS on it do the following;t > > >n4 > > >  1) Change the machine to use the SRM console. > > >fD > > >  2) Do a  >>> show conf  command to see the machine's firmware > > >     versions. Go tot > > >a< > > >         http://ftp.digital.com/pub/DEC/Alpha/firmware/ > > >nG > > >     If the machine is not at the latest firmware version downloadn > > >     a copy and update it.  > > >h5 > > >  3) Then at the >>> prompt, type the following:  > > >   > > >        >>> set os_type vmsE > > >        >>> cat nvram       (to see what, if anything, is in it)u > > >        >>> edit nvram # > > >            10 set srm_boot ona > > >            20 eo > > >        >>> inite > > >l$ > > >   4) Install VMS and have fun! > > >gA > > >Change the line numbers, 10 and 20 above, if your nvram filel2 > > >happens to have other commands in it already. > > >p? > > >The edit command above runs a simple line numbered editor.l3 > > >Type a ? in it to see a list of it's commands:r > > >t > > >        >>> edit nvram- > > >            ? > > >a > > >Jeff Campbell > > >n8wxs@arrl.netm > > >z > > >Hans Vlems wrote: > > >>= > > >> The label on the back shows the following information:r > > >> > > >> Model: FR-K7F2W-WAs > > >> PN: 3300 6400A1 > > >> Series: P8800 > > >>I > > >> The system is a white PC style box. It is _not_ a DEC 3000 machine A > > >> (the ones that look remotely like a VAX 3100). Could it bel
 > > a Jensen?s) > > >> The ARC console identification is:u > > >>+ > > >> Digital Server 3000 model 3300 6400Ae > > >> Digital Alpha 21164 > > >>A > > >> The machine used to boot NT4, but its ARC console supportsl > > also VMS and > > OSFs< > > >> modes. All I want is to be able to run AXP/VMS on it.H > > >> The error message reported was the result of >>> B -fl 0,0 dka500@ > > >> where dka500 is the CD drive. It does boot into SYSBOOT>, > > no problem withe > > >> that.= > > >> The fact that the system supports both ARC and VMS/OSF  > > console modes 6 > > >> made me think that VMS might run on the system. > > >> > > >> Hansh > > >>: > > >> rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger) wrote:: > > >> >In article <3c840244.1214705283@news.wcc.govt.nz>, > > rob.buxton@wcc.govt.nz
 > > >> wrote:h > > >> >E > > >> >>Not sure if it's the same, we got a couple of DEC 3000s hereh, > > >> >>2 DEC 3000 600M and a DEC 3000 300L" > > >> >>The latter is running 7.3$ > > >> >>The 600Ms are running 7.2-1	 > > >> >>rE > > >> >>Palcode Version on the 300L is 5.54 and on the 600Ms is 5.56 	 > > >> >>   > > >> >>Maybe a Firmware thing? > > >> >A > > >> >The above are conventional DEC 3000 server or workstation  > > systems.  VMSi? > > >> >has supported them since the flood.  There haven't been  > > major changesb > > to? > > >> >the firmware for years.  These systems will load either A > > >> >SYS$CPU_ROUTINES_0702.EXE (any of the 3000-300 family) or26 > > >> >SYS$CPU_ROUTINES_0402.EXE (any of the others). > > >> > > > >> >7 > > >> >>On Mon, 04 Mar 2002 15:49:21 GMT, "Hans Vlems"1 > > <hvlems@zfree.co.nz> > > >> >>wrote:h	 > > >> >> 
 > > >> >>>J > > >> >>>I found an old Dig. Server 3000 and tried to boot VMS 7.3 on it.+ > > >> >>>It failed with the error message:O2 > > >> >>>Unable to load SYS$CPU_ROUTINES_E505.EXE, > > >> >>>The VMS PALcode version is V1.20-36 > > >> >>>The >>>show version command returns V5.4-113 > > >> >8 > > >> >This is something completely different.  I don't > > recognize the name< > > >> >"Digital Server 3000" as being a VMS-capable system. > > (Which does notI > > meanA > > >> >there is no such beast.)  Certainly, if it is looking forqA > > >> >SYS$CPU_ROUTINES_E505.EXE, it is NOT a Pelican, Flamingo,  > > or Sandpiper3 > > >> >class DEC 3000 system.  No relation at all.3 > > >> > > > >> >(This web page > > >> >D > http://www.phys.ufl.edu/~prescott/linux/alpha/dec3000-sysinfo.htmlJ > >> >summarizes the DEC 3000 family pretty nicely, including the formerly$ > >> >top-secret system code names.) > >> >J > >> >On my systems, there's no SYS$CPU_ROUTINES_E505.EXE in the [SYS$LDR]I > >> >directory, which is the root problem.  The console sets up the dataFK > >> >structures that lets VMS figure this out.  There's no intelligence ini > VMSs > >> >in this area.' > >> >K > >> >Please be VERY careful with system names.  If you can find the label,E > postE > >> >exactly what the model name is.  Since you seem to have console  access,75 > >> >tell us the exact system name from the console.y > >> >L > >> >This _may_ be one of the crippled systems that was tweeked to make VMSK > >> >unbootable.  The "E505" part of the file name looks suspicious, sincee > ItL > >> >don't think the most significant bit of that hex number is ever set onL > >> >"official" VMS-supported systems.  But my memory may be faultly.  Some > ofL > >> >these systems shipped with VMS PALcode, but VMS does not support them. > >> >6 > >> >>>Is there any hope to boot, say, VMS 6.2 on it? > >> >K > >> >If it's similar enough to a supported system, it could likely be made  > to* > >> >work.  Licensing might be a problem. > >> >H > >> >If you find the detailed system specs, and have access to a sourceJ > >> >listings kit, and can write your own platform support and maybe some > bootC > >> >drivers, then I'm certain you could boot VMS on it.  But thisU	 paragraph F > >> >likely needs multiple smileys.  You're looking for hobbyist, not > >> >obsession, right?  > >> > > >> >  -- Roberta > >> > >> http://www.zfree.co.nzr >l >e >r > http://www.zfree.co.nz   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 21:35:48 GMTo+ From: Jeff Campbell <jcampbell@ins-msi.com>r; Subject: Re: What VMS version runs on a Digital Server 3000o+ Message-ID: <3C86824C.896B50F2@ins-msi.com>-   Hans Vlems wrote:- >  > Jeff,  > < > the Alpha now boots from the AXP/VMS V7.3 installation CD.= > I tried to boot after each step and step 3, set srm_boot on  > did the trick.  A Yes,  both  SET BOOT_RESET ON  and  SET SRM_BOOT ON  in the nvram.5 script are required for the 'white box's to boot VMS.   B As I indicated before I have 2 of the 'white box' alphas running -D a DS3300/AS800 and a DS5305/AS1200. I just 'found' a ds7305^ locally> that I may be able to aquire. 8-)  The DS730x is a 'white box'D AS 4100. If I do get it, I will find out if all 3 types of DS's will really run VMS.O  
 Jeff Campbellm n8wxs@arrl.net  < ^ It's a 4 533 MHz CPU machine. 4 more seti@home processes!   F > It apparently creates a new variable and allows VMS to boot from CD.G > The next question is: how can I format the disk as a Files-11 volume.t= > DKA0 now has NT4 on it and is (probably) formatted as NTFS.n >  > Hans   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 21:40:56 GMTt+ From: Jeff Campbell <jcampbell@ins-msi.com> ; Subject: Re: What VMS version runs on a Digital Server 3000 + Message-ID: <3C868381.5D76B38B@ins-msi.com>-   Hans Vlems wrote:  >  > Jeff,  > < > the Alpha now boots from the AXP/VMS V7.3 installation CD.= > I tried to boot after each step and step 3, set srm_boot onA@ > did the trick. It apparently creates a new variable and allows > VMS to boot from CD.G > The next question is: how can I format the disk as a Files-11 volume.l= > DKA0 now has NT4 on it and is (probably) formatted as NTFS.   D When you install VMS from the CD the installation script will formatC the system disk for you. Specify INIT when it asks whether you want2D to PRESERVE the current label (missing in your case) and INIT with a new volume label.a  C Once you have VMS installed and are booted up and logged in use the @ INIT command to initialize other disks. See  HELP INIT  for more information and examples.a  " HELP is your friend. Use it a lot.   >  > Hans  
 Jeff Campbell> n8wxs@arrl.net   ------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 20:37:46 -00005 From: "Malcolm" <malcolmix@neverness.freeserve.co.uk>BW Subject: Why no DEFINE /GROUP=nnnn? (was re: define "group-logicals" at system startup)t. Message-ID: <a65ukc$7co$1@news6.svr.pol.co.uk>  6 "Patrick Young" <P.Young@unsw.EDU.AU> wrote in message7 news:55f85d77.0203012349.59b9b99e@posting.google.com...m: > Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) wrote in message/ news:<7p9b8KjweUJY@eisner.encompasserve.org>...4 > > 	 > > $ RUN E SYS$SYSTEM:LOGINOUT/INPUT=NL:/OUTPUT=NL:/ERROR=NL:/UIC=[37774,177776]t >nH > Didn't think of that - That is _WAY_ cool! - missed a group of 3 of us sincei > 1989.n >oF > X run/uic=[12345,177776]/err=nl:/out=nl:/inp=nl: sys$system:loginout? > %RUN-S-PROC_ID, identification of created process is 00000177O  > X show lo/tab=lnm$group_012345 > (LNM$GROUP_012345)  D ...but why isn't there a DEFINE /GROUP=[group name or group number],L requiring (say) SYSNAM and CMKRNL privileges and creating the group table if it doesn't exist?xL Nice and consistent, and wouldn't break any existing DCL (plain /GROUP couldG default to user's current group and require the appropriate privileges;b. /GROUP=nnnn would require heavier privileges).  % Another one for the next release? ;-)u   -Malcolm   -- Malcolm MacArthur_  , Subtract nine for e-mail (anti-spam measure)   ------------------------------   Date: 6 Mar 2002 14:57:18 -0600t- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)mY Subject: Re: Why no DEFINE /GROUP=nnnn? (was re: define "group-logicals" at system startu=3 Message-ID: <UnsFhAb+gvRf@eisner.encompasserve.org>@  f In article <a65ukc$7co$1@news6.svr.pol.co.uk>, "Malcolm" <malcolmix@neverness.freeserve.co.uk> writes:  F > ...but why isn't there a DEFINE /GROUP=[group name or group number],N > requiring (say) SYSNAM and CMKRNL privileges and creating the group table if > it doesn't exist?-  ? The logic to create such tables is in one place - LOGINOUT.EXE,a0 getting the ownership and everything just right.  C Is it worth duplicating that code and incurring maintenance hazards>@ when it is so easy to work around in SYSTARTUP_VMS.COM (the only place where the need arrives) ?p  @ To put it in other terms, would you prefer they do that or would= you prefer they make it easier to port Unix programs to VMS ?h  ? How important is avoiding this workaround in the greater scheme- of things ?    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 00:41:11 GMTr, From: "Frank Sapienza" <sapienza@noesys.com>Y Subject: Re: Why no DEFINE /GROUP=nnnn? (was re: define "group-logicals" at system startue8 Message-ID: <HGyh8.4850$gQ.2371775@news02.optonline.net>  F > ...but why isn't there a DEFINE /GROUP=[group name or group number],K > requiring (say) SYSNAM and CMKRNL privileges and creating the group tablea if > it doesn't exist?   ? Umm...  it would appear someone isn't reading the manual again.n  : $ DEFINE /TABLE=LNM$GROUP_nnnnnn  TEST_LOGICAL "SOMETHING"  $ ... requires either SYSPRV or BYPASS  C $ CREATE /NAME_TABLE /PARENT=LNM$SYSTEM_DIRECTORY  LNM$GROUP_nnnnnn-  ? ... not sure what privilege is required, but most likely SYSPRVs  J I'm sure you can come up with a DCL procedure to create the group table if  it doesn't exist.  Here's a hint   $ WRITE SYS$OUTPUT> F$TRNLNM("LNM$GROUP_nnnnnn","LNM$SYSTEM_DIRECTORY",,,,"TABLE")   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 04:29:48 GMTs1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>tY Subject: Re: Why no DEFINE /GROUP=nnnn? (was re: define "group-logicals" at system startus' Message-ID: <3C86EE9B.66F89AC2@fsi.net>    Larry Kilgallen wrote: > h > In article <a65ukc$7co$1@news6.svr.pol.co.uk>, "Malcolm" <malcolmix@neverness.freeserve.co.uk> writes: > H > > ...but why isn't there a DEFINE /GROUP=[group name or group number],P > > requiring (say) SYSNAM and CMKRNL privileges and creating the group table if > > it doesn't exist?e > A > The logic to create such tables is in one place - LOGINOUT.EXE,n2 > getting the ownership and everything just right. > E > Is it worth duplicating that code and incurring maintenance hazardsdB > when it is so easy to work around in SYSTARTUP_VMS.COM (the only! > place where the need arrives) ?s  D Would you really have to "duplicate" anything? Is the necessary codeE already available if you can find the correct entry points somewhere,s. along with how to assemble the arguments list?  % That's where I'd start looking. YMMV.8  F Otherwise, it should be a fairly simple program. Call the right systemD services in kernel mode to create the table and in the requested (or* default) access mode for the logical name.   Then again, what do I know?o   -- i David J. Dachterac dba DJE Systemsp http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2002.129 ************************