1 INFO-VAX	Sun, 10 Mar 2002	Volume 2002 : Issue 135       Contents:E *!@&#*!MUST@SEE!!!10FREE@XTREME@TEENSEXXXXXX@VIDZ@FREE!!!!@#$%$  8805 > >>Best Grandfather Clock Sale Ever! London Clocks & Curio LTD.2 Re: best/most flexible preserve VMS files onto CD?2 Re: best/most flexible preserve VMS files onto CD? Cursos de Verano Re: expensive procedure calls  Free Cell Phone & Accessories ' Re: KZPSM v. AlpSta 200 4/233, VMS V7.2 ' Re: KZPSM v. AlpSta 200 4/233, VMS V7.2 6 Re: Permanent Position as a VMS Programmer Analyst NYCE Re: R.I.P. OpenVMS - ISS Recommends That H-P Holders Vote in Favor of E Re: R.I.P. OpenVMS - ISS Recommends That H-P Holders Vote in Favor of E RE: R.I.P. OpenVMS - ISS Recommends That H-P Holders Vote in Favor of E RE: R.I.P. OpenVMS - ISS Recommends That H-P Holders Vote in Favor of E Re: R.I.P. OpenVMS - ISS Recommends That H-P Holders Vote in Favor of E Re: R.I.P. OpenVMS - ISS Recommends That H-P Holders Vote in Favor of P Re: R.I.P. OpenVMS - ISS Recommends That H-P Holders Vote in Favor of Compaq Acq Selling: AS1000a 4/266 $499  SMG ' Timing on DECnet search list operations + Re: Timing on DECnet search list operations + Re: Timing on DECnet search list operations + Re: Timing on DECnet search list operations + Re: Timing on DECnet search list operations  Re: UCX$TELNETSYM error message  Re: VFC File Problem Re: VFC File Problem4 Viability of a Commercial ISO-9960 formatter for VMS8 Re: Viability of a Commercial ISO-9960 formatter for VMS8 Re: Viability of a Commercial ISO-9960 formatter for VMS8 Re: Viability of a Commercial ISO-9960 formatter for VMS8 Re: Viability of a Commercial ISO-9960 formatter for VMS Re: VMS sys admin salaries Re: VMS sys admin salaries Re: VMS sys admin salaries Re: VMS sys admin salaries Re: VMS sys admin salaries Re: VMS sys admin salaries Re: VMS sys admin salaries Re: VMS sys admin salaries  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 01:47:07 GMT  From: gizkjq@sex0rs.net N Subject: *!@&#*!MUST@SEE!!!10FREE@XTREME@TEENSEXXXXXX@VIDZ@FREE!!!!@#$%$  88059 Message-ID: <vWyi8.81409$LL4.886920@wagner.videotron.net>   / http://www.sexxxxxxxxxxxxxxx.kicks-ass.org:6969   / http://www.sexxxxxxxxxxxxxxx.kicks-ass.org:6969   / http://www.sexxxxxxxxxxxxxxx.kicks-ass.org:6969   / http://www.sexxxxxxxxxxxxxxx.kicks-ass.org:6969   / http://www.sexxxxxxxxxxxxxxx.kicks-ass.org:6969   / http://www.sexxxxxxxxxxxxxxx.kicks-ass.org:6969       f TUNE IN TO THIS TOTALLY NEW ALL 100% FREE WEBSITE.FEATURINGS MPGZ & AVIZ OF HIGH QUALITY ALL FREE!!@#$      ] LOOK@@@THIS 14YEARS OLD ALICIA GETTIN NAILED BY HIS UNCLE EVEN GETS IT IN THE ASS MUST SEE@@@   L http://www.sexxxxxxxxxxxxxxx.kicks-ass.org:6969/14YEARS_OLD_SWEET_ALICIA.exe      D CHECK OUT BRITNEY SPEARS TOPLESS ON THE BEACH!@@#$HIGH QUALITY VIDEO  R http://www.sexxxxxxxxxxxxxxx.kicks-ass.org:6969/BRITNEYSPEARS_TOPLESS_ON_BEACH.exe      G CHECK THIS BITCH TAKE UP NOT ONE BUT TWO 12INCHES DILD0S UP IN THE H0LE   \ http://www.sexxxxxxxxxxxxxxx.kicks-ass.org:6969/GETTING_2_12INCHES_DILD0S_UP_IN_THE_HOLE.exe      d CHECK OUT JENNA GET THIS HUGE LOAD OF 12 CUMSHOTS ONE AFTER THE OTHER. 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London Clocks & Curio LTD.  D Visit us online today by double clicking the link below or by typing* our website address into your web browser.  . http://www.cybernetemail.com/londonclocks.htm         5 _____________________________________________________   ! Want to be removed from our list? < Simply send an email to us at removes@cybernetemail.com and E type "remove" in the "subject" line and you will be removed from any   future mailings.   Cybernet Marketing  C PS...Would you like us to send a mailing like this one out for you? : Visit us online at: http://www.cybernetemail.com/bulk.htm                 ------------------------------   Date: 9 Mar 2002 14:59:30 -0600 - From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) ; Subject: Re: best/most flexible preserve VMS files onto CD? 3 Message-ID: <FoZEEpO$3a2j@eisner.encompasserve.org>   [ In article <3C898961.84FB3CE9@fsi.net>, "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> writes:  > Larry Kilgallen wrote: >>  ^ >> In article <3C883A1B.9C6E5177@fsi.net>, "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> writes: >> > Hoff Hoffman wrote: >> >> [snip]; >> >>   Details on the OpenVMS CD-R options are in the FAQ.  >> >H >> > Unfortunately, the details we need are nowhere to be found, AFAICT: >> >D >> > o Assuming the ISO-9660 data cells are properly filled with RMSJ >> > metadata, (i.e., RMS attributes are written to the IS0-9660 fs), will* >> > VMS/RMS look for them and honor them? >>  C >> Certainly that information is on the source listings kit, but it D >> seems immaterial since VMS can read the ODS tree of a dual format
 >> CD-ROM. > / > ...and if the CD is ISO-9660 only, then what?   > With currently available tools, nobody who cares about the VMS1 market will write a CD-ROM that is ISO-9660 only.   > > ...and if you don't have the source listings kit, then what?  H Get someone who does have it (and cares) to answer that yes/no question.  E > ...and if you can't get a direct answer from OVMS Engr., then what?   E You know they are spending their time wisely, since the answer should $ be found on the source listings kit.   ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 01:36:55 GMT 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> ; Subject: Re: best/most flexible preserve VMS files onto CD? ' Message-ID: <3C8ABAA8.89ED3997@fsi.net>    Larry Kilgallen wrote: > ] > In article <3C898961.84FB3CE9@fsi.net>, "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> writes:  > > Larry Kilgallen wrote: > >>` > >> In article <3C883A1B.9C6E5177@fsi.net>, "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> writes: > >> > Hoff Hoffman wrote: > >> >> [snip]= > >> >>   Details on the OpenVMS CD-R options are in the FAQ.  > >> >J > >> > Unfortunately, the details we need are nowhere to be found, AFAICT: > >> >F > >> > o Assuming the ISO-9660 data cells are properly filled with RMSL > >> > metadata, (i.e., RMS attributes are written to the IS0-9660 fs), will, > >> > VMS/RMS look for them and honor them? > >>E > >> Certainly that information is on the source listings kit, but it F > >> seems immaterial since VMS can read the ODS tree of a dual format > >> CD-ROM. > > 1 > > ...and if the CD is ISO-9660 only, then what?  > ! > With currently available tools,    You just identified the cause.    > nobody who cares about the VMS3 > market will write a CD-ROM that is ISO-9660 only.    You just identified the effect.   B The target is to eliminate the effect by addressing the cause in a
 positive way.    --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  $ Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 19:30:21 -0300& From: "Capacitaci?n" <trash@cisca.com> Subject: Cursos de Verano 9 Message-ID: <iss.13a7.3c8a8b63.70cd5.1@mx2.west.saic.com>   L <META HTTP-EQUIV=3D"Content-Type" CONTENT=3D"text/html;charset=3Diso-8859-1= ">> <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD>L <META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" http-equiv=3DContent-Type= > 6 <META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.2920.0" name=3DGENERATOR>
 <STYLE>BODY { B =09COLOR: #006666; FONT-FAMILY: Arial, Helvetica; FONT-SIZE: 10pt;# MARGIN-LEFT: 50px; MARGIN-TOP: 20px  }  </STYLE> </HEAD> < <BODY background=3Dcid:000d01c1c6fb$385b19f0$0b00000a@micron bgColor=3D#ffffff><FONT=20% color=3D#000000><FONT face=3DVerdana>  <DIV align=3Dleft><STRONG>: <HR color=3D#008080 style=3D"HEIGHT: 10px; WIDTH: 1064px"> </STRONG></DIV></FONT>/ <DIV align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DVerdana><STRONG>  <HR> </STRONG></FONT></DIV>) <DIV><FONT color=3D#000080 face=3DVerdana , size=3D4><STRONG>CISCA</STRONG></FONT></DIV>L <DIV align=3Dleft><FONT color=3D#008080 face=3DVerdana size=3D4><STRONG>Cen= tro=20C Inform=E1tica Sociedad Central de Arquitectos</STRONG></FONT></DIV> / <DIV align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DVerdana><STRONG> 3 <DIV align=3Dleft style=3D"MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"><A=20 E href=3D"http://www.cisca.com/cursos"><STRONG><FONT color=3D#000080=20 6 face=3DVerdana>www.cisca.com</FONT></STRONG></A></DIV>3 <DIV align=3Dleft style=3D"MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"><A=20 ? href=3D"mailto:info@cisca.com"><STRONG><FONT color=3D#000080=20 I face=3DVerdana>info@cisca.com</FONT></STRONG></A><FONT color=3D#000080=20 - face=3DVerdana><STRONG></STRONG></FONT></DIV> F <DIV align=3Dleft style=3D"MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"><FONT color=3D#000080=20@ face=3DVerdana><STRONG>Montevideo 938 Bs As</STRONG></FONT><FONT color=3D#000080=20, face=3DVerdana><STRONG>&nbsp; 4815-0307 /=20L 4816-0378</STRONG></FONT></STRONG></FONT><FONT face=3DVerdana><STRONG></DIV= > . <DIV align=3Dleft style=3D"MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <HR>J </DIV></STRONG></DIV></FONT><FONT color=3D#000080 face=3DVerdana size=3D3>5 <DIV align=3Dright><STRONG>Info</STRONG></FONT></DIV>  <DIV align=3Dright><FONT=20 < face=3DVerdana><STRONG>Marzo&nbsp;2002</STRONG></FONT></DIV> <DIV align=3Dleft>9 <HR color=3D#c0c0c0 style=3D"HEIGHT: 8px; WIDTH: 1069px">  </DIV> <DIV align=3Dright>&nbsp;</DIV> E <DIV align=3Dcenter style=3D"MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"><FONT color=3D#000080  face=3DVerdana=20 F size=3D4><STRONG>Aproveche nuestras bonificaciones en los Cursos de=20 Verano</STRONG></FONT></DIV>L <DIV align=3Dcenter><FONT color=3D#000080 face=3DVerdana size=3D4><STRONG>.=
 Obtenga=20A capacitaci=F3n con certificados oficiales..</STRONG></FONT></DIV>  <DIV align=3Dleft>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV align=3Dleft>9 <HR color=3D#c0c0c0 style=3D"HEIGHT: 8px; WIDTH: 1070px">  </DIV>  <DIV align=3Dcenter>&nbsp;</DIV>L <DIV align=3Dleft><FONT color=3D#008080 face=3DVerdana size=3D4><STRONG>Cur=	 sos de=20 L </STRONG></FONT><FONT color=3D#008080 size=3D3><FONT face=3DVerdana><STRONG=	 ><FONT=20 L size=3D4>Dise=F1o asistido </FONT><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>(Pc y Mac)= <FONT=20) color=3D#000080 size=3D4>&nbsp;&nbsp; 20% ( off</FONT></FONT></STRONG></DIV><STRONG> <DIV align=3Dleft> <HR> </DIV></STRONG></FONT></FONT>  <UL>   <LI>5   <DIV align=3Dleft style=3D"MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"><FONT ! face=3DVerdana><STRONG>AutoCAD=20 $   2000 2D y 3D</STRONG></FONT></DIV>   <LI>5   <DIV align=3Dleft style=3D"MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"><FONT " face=3DVerdana><STRONG>3DStudio=20 =20  Max</STRONG>H &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;' &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20    </FONT></DIV>    <LI>@   <DIV><FONT face=3DVerdana><STRONG>M2 Arq</STRONG></FONT></DIV>   <LI>L   <DIV><FONT face=3DVerdana><STRONG>ArchiCAD NI y NII</STRONG></FONT></DIV>=  A   <LI><FONT face=3DVerdana><STRONG>VectorWorks</STRONG></FONT>=20 <   <LI><FONT face=3DVerdana><STRONG>Form Z</STRONG></FONT>=20?   <LI><FONT face=3DVerdana><STRONG>Control P</STRONG></FONT>=20 G   <LI><FONT face=3DVerdana><STRONG>MS Project</STRONG></FONT></LI></UL>  <UL>7   <LI><FONT face=3DVerdana><STRONG>Macromedia: DW, FW y  Flash</STRONG>&nbsp;&nbsp;=20 .   (dise=F1o de paginas y sitios web)</FONT>=20?   <LI><FONT face=3DVerdana><STRONG>Photoshop</STRONG></FONT>=20 G   <LI><FONT face=3DVerdana><STRONG>Corel Draw</STRONG></FONT></LI></UL> ; <DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#008080 face=3DVerdana size=3D4>  <HR> </FONT></STRONG></DIV>4 <DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#008080 face=3DVerdana=20% size=3D4></FONT></STRONG>&nbsp;</DIV> L <DIV><FONT color=3D#008080 face=3DVerdana size=3D4><STRONG>Cursos Intensivo=	 s<FONT=20 K color=3D#000000 size=3D2><FONT color=3D#000080 size=3D4>&nbsp;&nbsp; 30%=20 ' off</FONT></FONT></STRONG></FONT></DIV>  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV> 6 <DIV><FONT face=3DVerdana><STRONG>AutoCAD 2000 2D NI y NII</STRONG></FONT></DIV>  <UL>8   <LI><FONT face=3DVerdana>Cad uso general 2D.</FONT>=206   <LI><FONT face=3DVerdana>Duraci=F3n 30 hs.</FONT>=20L   <LI><FONT face=3DVerdana>Fechas inicio:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Consultar =  #   horarios e iniciaci=F3n</FONT>=20 L   <LI><FONT face=3DVerdana>Precio: Promoci=F3n Marzo<FONT color=3D#000080=20B   size=3D4><STRONG>&nbsp; $ 260,-</STRONG></FONT></FONT></LI></UL>3 <DIV><FONT face=3DVerdana><STRONG>3DStudio Max NI y ! NII</STRONG></FONT></DIV><FONT=20  face=3DVerdana>  <UL>C   <LI><FONT face=3DVerdana>Cad modelado, rendering y animaci=F3n en  </FONT><FONT=20    face=3DVerdana>3D.</FONT>=20;   <LI><FONT face=3DVerdana>Duraci=F3n&nbsp;28 hs.</FONT>=20 L   <LI><FONT face=3DVerdana>Fechas inicio:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Consultar =  $   horarios e iniciaci=F3n.</FONT>=20F   <LI><FONT face=3DVerdana>Precio: Promoci=F3n Marzo&nbsp;&nbsp; <FONT color=3D#000080=20;   size=3D4><STRONG>$ 270,-</STRONG></FONT></FONT></LI></UL> L <DIV><FONT face=3DVerdana><STRONG>Dise=F1o de p=E1ginas y sitios WEB&nbsp;&= nbsp;=20H </STRONG></FONT><FONT face=3DVerdana><STRONG>Macromedia Dreamweaver y=200 Flash</STRONG></FONT></DIV><FONT face=3DVerdana> <UL>=   <LI><FONT face=3DVerdana>Dise=F1o de p=E1ginas y sitios Web  con&nbsp;capacidades=20 3   multimedia</FONT><FONT face=3DVerdana>.</FONT>=20 ;   <LI><FONT face=3DVerdana>Duraci=F3n&nbsp;30 hs.</FONT>=20 L   <LI><FONT face=3DVerdana>Fechas inicio:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Consultar =  #   horarios e iniciaci=F3n</FONT>=20 F   <LI><FONT face=3DVerdana>Precio: Promoci=F3n Marzo&nbsp;&nbsp; <FONT color=3D#000080=20L   size=3D4><STRONG>$ 270,-</STRONG></FONT></FONT></LI></UL><FONT face=3DAri= al> @ <DIV><FONT face=3DVerdana><STRONG>Dise=F1o Gr=E1fico&nbsp;&nbsp; </STRONG></FONT><FONT=20K face=3DVerdana><STRONG>Photoshop y Corel Draw</STRONG></FONT></DIV><FONT=20  face=3DVerdana>  <UL>N   <LI><FONT face=3DVerdana>Dise=F1o gr=E1fico, retoque y tratamiento de im=E1= genes=20   digitales.</FONT>=20;   <LI><FONT face=3DVerdana>Duraci=F3n&nbsp;28 hs.</FONT>=20 L   <LI><FONT face=3DVerdana>Fechas inicio:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Consultar =  8   horarios e iniciaci=F3n</FONT></FONT></FONT></FONT>=20A   <LI><FONT face=3DArial><FONT face=3DVerdana>Precio: Promoci=F3n  Marzo&nbsp;&nbsp;=20-   <FONT color=3D#000080 size=3D4><STRONG>$=20 - 270,-</STRONG></FONT></FONT></FONT></LI></UL>  <HR>   <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV></FONT>L <DIV align=3Dleft><FONT color=3D#008080 face=3DVerdana size=3D4><STRONG>Cur=	 sos de=20 L Sistemas operativos y Administrativos&nbsp;&nbsp; <FONT color=3D#000080>20%= =20 A off</FONT></STRONG></FONT><FONT color=3D#008080 size=3D3><FONT=20  face=3DVerdana><STRONG></DIV>  <DIV align=3Dleft> <HR> </DIV></STRONG></FONT></FONT>  <UL>   <LI>5   <DIV align=3Dleft style=3D"MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"><FONT ! face=3DVerdana><STRONG>Windows=20 !   NT Server</STRONG></FONT></DIV>    <LI>L   <DIV align=3Dleft style=3D"MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"><FONT face=3DVerdana><STRON=	 G>Unix=20    S5R4</STRONG></FONT></DIV>   <LI>8   <DIV align=3Dleft style=3D"MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"><FONT=20>   face=3DVerdana><STRONG>Linux</STRONG></FONT></DIV></LI></UL>. <DIV align=3Dleft style=3D"MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <UL>   <LI>L   <DIV align=3Dleft style=3D"MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"><FONT face=3DVerdana><STRON= G>MS=20    Word</STRONG></FONT></DIV>   <LI>L   <DIV align=3Dleft style=3D"MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"><FONT face=3DVerdana><STRON= G>Ms=20    Excel</STRONG></FONT></DIV>u   <LI>L   <DIV align=3Dleft style=3D"MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"><FONT face=3DVerdana><STRON= G>MS=20!.   Access</STRONG></FONT></DIV></LI></UL></DIV> <UL>   <LI>8   <DIV align=3Dleft style=3D"MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"><FONT=20M   face=3DVerdana><STRONG>Internet</STRONG>&nbsp;&nbsp; (e-mail y navegaci=F3=  n  en la=20   web)</FONT></DIV></LI></UL>n <DIV align=3Dleft>: <HR color=3D#c0c0c0 style=3D"HEIGHT: 11px; WIDTH: 1068px"> </DIV> <UL>   <LI>5   <DIV align=3Dleft style=3D"MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"><FONT   face=3DVerdana><STRONG>Turnos=200   ma=F1ana, tarde y noche.</STRONG></FONT></DIV>   <LI>@   <DIV align=3Dleft style=3D"MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"><STRONG><FONT=20<   face=3DVerdana>Plataformas Pc y Mac.</FONT></STRONG></DIV>   <LI>5   <DIV align=3Dleft style=3D"MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"><FONTo# face=3DVerdana><STRONG>Monitores=20d   de 17".</STRONG></FONT></DIV>o   <LI>8   <DIV align=3Dleft style=3D"MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"><FONT=20;   face=3DVerdana><STRONG>Bonificaciones en software para=20s/   arquitectura.</STRONG></FONT></DIV></LI></UL>2. <DIV align=3Dleft style=3D"MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <HR> </DIV>L <DIV align=3Dcenter style=3D"MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"><FONT face=3DVerdana><IMG=20= align=3Dbaseline alt=3Dwww.cisca.com border=3D0 hspace=3D0=20iL src=3D"mhtml:mid://00000001/!http://www.cisca.com/LogCISCAnegrowebola1.gif"= =20e style=3D"HEIGHT: 104px; WIDTH: 148px"> H &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;H &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20tL <IMG align=3Dbaseline alt=3D"Autodesk Training Center" border=3D0 hspace=3D= 0=20G src=3D"mhtml:mid://00000001/!http://www.cisca.com/Autodeskybola.gif"=20s3 style=3D"HEIGHT: 104px; WIDTH: 149px"></FONT></DIV>i3 <DIV align=3Dleft style=3D"MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"><A=20a> href=3D"http://www.cisca.com"><STRONG><FONT color=3D#000080=206 face=3DVerdana>www.cisca.com</FONT></STRONG></A></DIV>3 <DIV align=3Dleft style=3D"MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"><A=20 ? href=3D"mailto:info@cisca.com"><STRONG><FONT color=3D#000080=20E7 face=3DVerdana>info@cisca.com</FONT></STRONG></A></DIV>yF <DIV align=3Dleft style=3D"MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"><FONT color=3D#000080=20L face=3DVerdana><STRONG>CISCA Montevideo 938 Bs As&nbsp;&nbsp; 4815-0307 /=20 4816-0378</STRONG></FONT></DIV>s. <DIV align=3Dleft style=3D"MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <HR> </DIV>. <DIV align=3Dleft style=3D"MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">: <HR color=3D#000080 style=3D"HEIGHT: 14px; 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indicand= o  en el=20& subjet <STRONG>remover</STRONG>.</DIV>: <DIV align=3Dleft style=3D"MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">&nbsp;</DIV>< <DIV align=3Dcenter style=3D"MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">&nbsp;</DIV>< <DIV align=3Dcenter style=3D"MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">&nbsp;</DIV>< <DIV align=3Dcenter style=3D"MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">&nbsp;</DIV>< <DIV align=3Dcenter style=3D"MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">&nbsp;</DIV>< <DIV align=3Dcenter style=3D"MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">&nbsp;</DIV>< <DIV align=3Dcenter style=3D"MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">&nbsp;</DIV>< <DIV align=3Dcenter style=3D"MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV align=3Dleft=20 style=3D"MARGIN-RIGHT:J 0px">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</DIV></FONT></BODY></HTML>   ------------------------------   Date: 9 Mar 2002 20:28:35 GMTe3 From: anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl)e& Subject: Re: expensive procedure calls, Message-ID: <a6dr9j$p6p$1@news.tuwien.ac.at>  - In article <3C7DEE45.C1F8A4BA@hda.hydro.com>,v6  Terje Mathisen <terje.mathisen@hda.hydro.com> writes:6 >I've done something almost unheard of in this regard: > C >I've actually tried multiple different implementation methods, allcI >written in both C and asm to get full control, and then timed them, just  >to find the fastest method. >tH >Yeah, I know that this is bad 'cause it can stop a nice discussion, but8 >I wanted to win a competition, so please excuse me. :-) ... F >Anyway, the important part is that plain recursion can indeed be veryI >fast, in my case it was almost certainly due to keeping the code workingr@ >set really small, since the data was the same for all versions.  C Ok, in this spirit I coded up a number of variants of tree-walking,LD because that was the example discussed elsewhere in this thread, and measured their performance.  3  G You can find the source code below, here are some explanatory comments:D  D I used node-counting instead of node-printing, because node-printingF is very likely dominated by printing and not by tree-walking.  I thinkE I did preserve the order of visits (depth-first left-to-right) in alli variants, though.   C The code does not build a full tree, but a minimal DAG with n nodes ' for simulating a tree with 2^n-1 nodes.n   The various variants are:m  C 1) The straightforward node-counting function is not tail-recursive,+ (it performs an add after the second call).-  D 2) It can be converted into a tail-recursive function by rearrangingE the computation with an additional parameter; gcc (with the options Is1 used) eliminates the tail recursion in this case.a  % 3) Tail recursion eliminated by hand.   E 4) Complete recursion elimination.  This uses a stack remembering theyD spine of right-child nodes; the stack is fixed-size, which would not> work in general; a general version with a growable stack would probably be somewhat slower.  < 5) This is 4), optimized by checking the right child earlierD (analogous optimizations should also speed up all other variants, at  the expense of more complexity).  E I guess the perceptive readers will find some errors in the code, but C at least the output in the benchmark case is correct, so I hope theM  errors don't affect the results.  # I used the following timing script:/y for i in 1 2 3 4 5; do gcc -O3 -fomit-frame-pointer -DOPT=$i tree-walk.c; echo "OPT=$i:"; perfex -e 4100c0 a.out 20; donet  A The timings (cycle results) on my Athlon-1200 show quite a bit offF variation, but most speed differences are larger than these variations? (except the speed differences between 2 and 3); the output of 6e2 repetitions was massaged into the following table:  D                   run 1    run 2    run 3    run 4    run 5    run 6 OPT=1: nodes = 1048575 E cycles        : 30339154 30361572 30217474 30939957 30182402 30783846AE instructions  : 34938295 34938295 34938294 34938294 34938294 34938294t? OPT=2:	       	                                                l@ nodes = 1048575	                                                E cycles        : 22274720 21604934 21070969 21106644 22821884 22516939iE instructions  : 24452545 24452544 24452545 24452545 24452545 24452545.? OPT=3:	       	                                                 @ nodes = 1048575	                                                E cycles        : 20311913 19708046 21274829 19942656 22096462 20135104 E instructions  : 23403970 23403971 23403971 23403971 23403971 23403970 ? OPT=4:	       	                                                y@ nodes = 1048575	                                                E cycles        : 13830580 13087445 12958420 13356717 12746190 12471338oE instructions  : 14491094 14491095 14491093 14491093 14491095 14491093 ? OPT=5:	       	                                                C@ nodes = 1048575	                                                E cycles        : 10992514 11753863 10990741 11310144 11019757 11570805aE instructions  : 10821077 10821077 10821076 10821076 10821077 10821077n  D So, it seems like eliminating recursion still pays off.  I guess theF speed difference between 2 and 3 is caused by the additional parameter in the recursive calls in 2.   Followups set to comp.arch.N   - antonr   And here's the code:   #include <stdlib.h>5 #include <stdio.h>   typedef struct node {    struct node *left, *right; } node;8   int count_nodes(node *n);o   int main(int argc, char **argv)0 {F   unsigned depth;    int i;   node nodes[40];      if (argc!=2) {2     fprintf(stderr, "Usage: %s depth\n", argv[0]);     exit(1);   }i   depth=atoi(argv[1]);"   /* build a dag of depth depth */(   nodes[0].left = nodes[0].right = NULL;   for (i=1; i<depth; i++)O1     nodes[i].left = nodes[i].right = &nodes[i-1];F6   printf("nodes = %d\n", countnodes(&nodes[depth-1]));   return 0;o }E  
 #if OPT==1 int countnodes(node *n)S {N   if (n==NULL)
     return 0;l   else:     return countnodes(n->left) + countnodes(n->right) + 1; }I #elif OPT==2 int countnodes2(node *n, int c)c {o   if (n==NULL)
     return c;0    c += countnodes2(n->left,0)+1;!   return countnodes2(n->right,c);i }3   int countnodes(node *n): {x   return countnodes2(n,0); }i #elif OPT==3 int countnodes(node *n)2 { 
   int c=0;   for (; n!=NULL; n=n->right)G     c+=countnodes(n->left)+1;    return c;a }T #elif OPT==4 int countnodes(node *n)n {l   node *stack[40];   node **sp=stack;   int c = 0;     *sp++ = n;   while (sp>stack))     for (n = *--sp; n!=NULL; n=n->left) {0       *sp++ = n->right;<
       c++;     }0   return c;6 }7 #elif OPT==5 int countnodes(node *n)f {=   node *stack[40];   node **sp=stack;   int c = 0;     if (n==NULL)
     return 0;I   *sp++ = n;   while (sp>stack)     for (n = *--sp; ;) {       if (n->right)n 	*sp++ = n->right;
       c++;       n=n->left;       if (n==NULL) 	break;e     }a   return c;r }n #endif   - antonF -- /K M. Anton Ertl                    Some things have to be seen to be believed6K anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at Most things have to be believed to be seenD0 http://www.complang.tuwien.ac.at/anton/home.html   ------------------------------   Date: 9 Mar 2002 18:05:29 -0500o From: FreeCellPhone@gz.com& Subject: Free Cell Phone & Accessories. Message-ID: <200202151452.g1FEqFq01889@gz.com>  F <META http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1">0 <font face="arial, verdana, helvetica" size="2"> <center> <br>B <a href="http://www.qksrv.net/click-1030271-940647" target="_top">} <img src="http://www.qksrv.net/image-1030271-940647" width="468" height="60" alt="The Best Cell Phone Deals!" border="0"></a>T <br> <br><a href="http://www.qksrv.net/click-1030271-900807" target="_top" >FREE Cell Phones Plus Cash $$$ Rebates!!</a><img src="http://www.qksrv.net/image-1030271-900807" width="1" height="1" border="0"><br><br>Click <a href="http://www.qksrv.net/click-1030271-940647" target="_top">HERE</a> to see if you qualify for a <b>FREE</b> brand new phone and accessories, no strings attached, no obligations!<br><br>  D <a href="http://www.qksrv.net/click-1030271-5800588" target="_top" > <img src="http://www.qksrv.net/image-1030271-5800588" width="125" height="125" alt="The Best Cell Phone Deals!" border="0"></a>;D <a href="http://www.qksrv.net/click-1030271-5468930" target="_top" > <img src="http://www.qksrv.net/image-1030271-5468930" width="120" height="60" alt="The Best Cell Phone Deals!!" border="0"></a>D </font></center><br><br><br>   <a href="http://www.gz.com/sending/unsubscribe.php?lid=EBDVDQNNJBVVLNEDNPIFWXROJNBUQVQVNQWLEWOSPHLXTRCTCR&uid=5281513">Click Here once to be removed from any further mailings by this company.</a>r <br><br><br><br>2<small>This message is being sent to you in compliance with the Federal legislation for commercial e-mail (H.R.4176 - 101, Paragraph (e)(1)(a)) and Bill s.1618 Title III passed by the 105th US Congress.  To review our policies and for full company contact info visit <a href="http://www.gz.com">GZ.com</a>   </body>< </html>r   ------------------------------  + Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 20:26:02 -0600 (CST)d From: sms@antinode.org0 Subject: Re: KZPSM v. AlpSta 200 4/233, VMS V7.2) Message-ID: <02030920260234@antinode.org>/  4    Thanks to the suggestors for for the suggestions.  " > $ mcr sysman io set exclude=ewb0  G    As it turns out, EWB0 was not the problem, PKB0 was.  Excluding PKB0nD gets past the hang (and EWB0 looks as if it'd work if I tried to useF it).  Sadly, I was actually hoping for the SCSI part of this card, not1 the Ethernet part, so I appear to be out of luck.r  A    A search for KZPSM on the Compaq Web site suggested support on=C AlphaServers 400, 1000[A], and 2000/2100[A], for those who might be& interested.b  H    Great search system by the way.  Put in two words instead of one, andC you get: "The parameter is incorrect."  However, for the URL-savvy,<D asking it to search for "alphastation%20200" does work, although the0 results are not valid.  But I'm not complaining.  H ------------------------------------------------------------------------  C    Steven M. Schweda               (+1) 651-699-9818  (voice, home)VC    382 South Warwick Street        (+1) 763-781-0308  (voice, work)sG    Saint Paul  MN  55105-2547      (+1) 763-781-0309  (facsimile, work)&9    sms@antinode.org                sms@provis.com  (work)    ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 05:05:18 GMTo From: dittman@dittman.net<0 Subject: Re: KZPSM v. AlpSta 200 4/233, VMS V7.26 Message-ID: <iQBi8.6139$KK5.2905@nwrddc01.gnilink.net>   sms@antinode.org wrote:=6 :    Thanks to the suggestors for for the suggestions.  # :> $ mcr sysman io set exclude=ewb0O  I :    As it turns out, EWB0 was not the problem, PKB0 was.  Excluding PKB0pF : gets past the hang (and EWB0 looks as if it'd work if I tried to useH : it).  Sadly, I was actually hoping for the SCSI part of this card, not3 : the Ethernet part, so I appear to be out of luck.   C :    A search for KZPSM on the Compaq Web site suggested support on<E : AlphaServers 400, 1000[A], and 2000/2100[A], for those who might ben
 : interested.o  9 I've used a KZPSM on a PC164, PC164LX, and PWSxxx system.O -- L Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.netV= Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net//   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 23:33:58 +0100N- From: Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@Free.fr>>? Subject: Re: Permanent Position as a VMS Programmer Analyst NYCi' Message-ID: <3C8A8DDC.5C379C3C@Free.fr>O   I agree.# It's not eBay here, but kind of :-)p   D.   John Eisenschmidt wrote: > R > Please post a location, job description, duties, salary range, and desired qualiG > fications if you'd like anyone to email you to discuss this position.D > O > Unless the Voices are Mistaken, Diana Stroud (enetworks@earthlink.net) Wrote:<L > > Please contact me via e-mail to discuss this position in greater detail.   ------------------------------  $ Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 12:34:09 -0800" From: GreyCloud <mist@cumulus.com>N Subject: Re: R.I.P. OpenVMS - ISS Recommends That H-P Holders Vote in Favor of/ Message-ID: <u8ks38ebqqqdba@corp.supernews.com>    Carl Perkins wrote:e  : > karcher@thuria.waisman.wisc.edu (Carl Karcher) writes...H > }In a previous article, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote: > }->Osmo Kujala wrote:3H > }->> I think the situation has gone so far that VMS needs some kind of( > alliance }->> (wrong word) with Linux. > }->FJ > }->For as long as VMS is owned by a compay loyal to Microsoft and Intel,2 > VMS will }->not compete against Microsoft/Intel. > }-> 9 > }->I still think that VMS should be aligned with APPLE.U > }DJ > }Doesn't Billy Boy own something like 30% of apple too? Or was that just > }a nightmare I had?HJ > }-- Carl Karcher, Waisman Computing Services, Waisman Center, UW-Madison >  > I > Bill Gates doesn't even own 30% of Microsoft. (He owns under 15%, maybeO4 > even under 12% - it's somewhere in that vicinity.) > H Isn't it because Bill has filed with the SEC to slowly sell off all his I stocks in Msft.  Seems like bill sees the handwriting on the wall and is D+ getting out.  I think he filed last August.F   ------------------------------   Date: 9 Mar 2002 15:03:14 -0600l- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)DN Subject: Re: R.I.P. OpenVMS - ISS Recommends That H-P Holders Vote in Favor of3 Message-ID: <Prhc4S07DJkr@eisner.encompasserve.org>l  Z In article <a6c805$5gh$1@odo.ecs.umass.edu>, "Joe Heimann" <heimann@ecs.umass.edu> writes:7 > Carl Karcher <karcher@thuria.waisman.wisc.edu> wrote:   J >> Doesn't Billy Boy own something like 30% of apple too? Or was that just >> a nightmare I had?/ > L > Nah, just a former investment by MS.  As part of a settlement of a pendingK > IP case, MS agreed to come out with new versions of MS Office for the MaciK > for a definite period of years.  New features in Office were to be portedfG > to the Mac version within a set period of time as well.  Basically a >J > requirement to keep parity with the Windows version.  As well, MS boughtL > a $150 million lot of non-voting stock in Apple, and were required to keepH > it for several years.  From what I understand, that has all been sold.  B If $150 million dollars were a 30% share of Apple, that would meanC that all of Apple was worth $500 million.  Warren Buffet would have;E bought Apple by now (no anti-trust issues for him) just because Apples has $4 billion in the bank :-)   ------------------------------  $ Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 18:25:18 -0500+ From: "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@Compaq.com>0N Subject: RE: R.I.P. OpenVMS - ISS Recommends That H-P Holders Vote in Favor ofT Message-ID: <BE56C50EA024184DAF48F0B9A47F5CF401AB1D34@kaoexc01.americas.cpqcorp.net>  G >>> Isn't it because Bill has filed with the SEC to slowly sell off all8 his stocks in Msft.>>>  E Actually, from what I have heard, it is common practice by many largeIB stock owners to tell the SEC every 6 months about a large block ofH shares they plan to sell . That way they can sell when the time is up orH alternatively they can keep them. But telling the SEC every 6 months (orH whatever the min time is), it gives them a constant window to raise some cash for other things.   Regards   
 Kerry Main Senior Consultant- Compaq Canada Corp./ Professional Services  Voice: 613-592-4660: Fax  :  819-772-7036 Email: Kerry.Main@Compaq.com     -----Original Message-----, From: GreyCloud [mailto:mist@cumulus.com]=20 Sent: March 9, 2002 3:34 PM2 To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.ComSE Subject: Re: R.I.P. OpenVMS - ISS Recommends That H-P Holders Vote in8 Favor of     Carl Perkins wrote:>  : > karcher@thuria.waisman.wisc.edu (Carl Karcher) writes...H > }In a previous article, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote:  J > }->Osmo Kujala wrote: }->> I think the situation has gone so far that=20? > VMS needs some kind of alliance }->> (wrong word) with Linux.r > }->TC > }->For as long as VMS is owned by a compay loyal to Microsoft andN Intel,2 > VMS will }->not compete against Microsoft/Intel. > }->o9 > }->I still think that VMS should be aligned with APPLE.> > }TE > }Doesn't Billy Boy own something like 30% of apple too? Or was thatD just > }a nightmare I had?I? > }-- Carl Karcher, Waisman Computing Services, Waisman Center,"
 UW-Madison >=20 >=20F > Bill Gates doesn't even own 30% of Microsoft. (He owns under 15%,=20: > maybe even under 12% - it's somewhere in that vicinity.) >=20J Isn't it because Bill has filed with the SEC to slowly sell off all his=20H stocks in Msft.  Seems like bill sees the handwriting on the wall and is  + getting out.  I think he filed last August.i   ------------------------------   Date: 9 Mar 2002 18:09:15 -0600n- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)DN Subject: RE: R.I.P. OpenVMS - ISS Recommends That H-P Holders Vote in Favor of3 Message-ID: <fo39z5ZnOdaS@eisner.encompasserve.org>3   In article <BE56C50EA024184DAF48F0B9A47F5CF401AB1D34@kaoexc01.americas.cpqcorp.net>, "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@Compaq.com> writes:H >>>> Isn't it because Bill has filed with the SEC to slowly sell off all > his stocks in Msft.>>> > G > Actually, from what I have heard, it is common practice by many largenD > stock owners to tell the SEC every 6 months about a large block ofJ > shares they plan to sell . That way they can sell when the time is up orJ > alternatively they can keep them. But telling the SEC every 6 months (orJ > whatever the min time is), it gives them a constant window to raise some > cash for other things.  H I imagine a request under the US Freedom of Information Act would reveal& if that is what Kerry does with his...  . ...or perhaps not, since Kerry is Canadian :-)   ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 01:41:42 GMTe1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>bN Subject: Re: R.I.P. OpenVMS - ISS Recommends That H-P Holders Vote in Favor of' Message-ID: <3C8ABBC7.A65A9DCA@fsi.net>    GreyCloud wrote: >  > Carl Perkins wrote:t > < > > karcher@thuria.waisman.wisc.edu (Carl Karcher) writes...J > > }In a previous article, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote: > > }->Osmo Kujala wrote:tJ > > }->> I think the situation has gone so far that VMS needs some kind of* > > alliance }->> (wrong word) with Linux. > > }->gL > > }->For as long as VMS is owned by a compay loyal to Microsoft and Intel,4 > > VMS will }->not compete against Microsoft/Intel. > > }->l; > > }->I still think that VMS should be aligned with APPLE., > > }mL > > }Doesn't Billy Boy own something like 30% of apple too? Or was that just > > }a nightmare I had?TL > > }-- Carl Karcher, Waisman Computing Services, Waisman Center, UW-Madison > >d > >eK > > Bill Gates doesn't even own 30% of Microsoft. (He owns under 15%, maybe 6 > > even under 12% - it's somewhere in that vicinity.) > > I > Isn't it because Bill has filed with the SEC to slowly sell off all hisaJ > stocks in Msft.  Seems like bill sees the handwriting on the wall and is- > getting out.  I think he filed last August.   	 *WOW*!!! d  D Now *THAT* would make Enron look like a kid shoplifting at the local candy store...   -- w David J. Dachterar dba DJE Systemst http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/o   ------------------------------  $ Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 22:27:58 -0800" From: GreyCloud <mist@cumulus.com>N Subject: Re: R.I.P. OpenVMS - ISS Recommends That H-P Holders Vote in Favor of/ Message-ID: <u8lusiabc9cd6d@corp.supernews.com>    David J. Dachtera wrote:   > GreyCloud wrote: >> o >> Carl Perkins wrote: >> -= >> > karcher@thuria.waisman.wisc.edu (Carl Karcher) writes...xK >> > }In a previous article, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote:h >> > }->Osmo Kujala wrote:K >> > }->> I think the situation has gone so far that VMS needs some kind ofp+ >> > alliance }->> (wrong word) with Linux.o >> > }->F >> > }->For as long as VMS is owned by a compay loyal to Microsoft and< >> > Intel, VMS will }->not compete against Microsoft/Intel. >> > }->< >> > }->I still think that VMS should be aligned with APPLE. >> > }H >> > }Doesn't Billy Boy own something like 30% of apple too? Or was that >> > just }a nightmare I had? B >> > }-- Carl Karcher, Waisman Computing Services, Waisman Center, >> > UW-Madison  >> > >> >L >> > Bill Gates doesn't even own 30% of Microsoft. (He owns under 15%, maybe7 >> > even under 12% - it's somewhere in that vicinity.)5 >> >J >> Isn't it because Bill has filed with the SEC to slowly sell off all hisK >> stocks in Msft.  Seems like bill sees the handwriting on the wall and is . >> getting out.  I think he filed last August. > 
 > *WOW*!!! > F > Now *THAT* would make Enron look like a kid shoplifting at the local > candy store... >   E The sad part is you're going to find more and more companies raping,  I looting, and pillaging of large corporations and then filter down to the  L smaller ones.  If the DOJ doesn't hang the ENRON high execs, then the stage . is set for more failures,... er profit taking.   ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 01:40:08 GMT 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>7Y Subject: Re: R.I.P. OpenVMS - ISS Recommends That H-P Holders Vote in Favor of Compaq Acq1' Message-ID: <3C8ABB68.BC0BF84D@fsi.net>k   Jerry Leslie wrote:  > / > Paul Repacholi (prep@prep.synonet.com) wrote:n1 > : young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) writes:t > :c@ > : > How about: because it makes no sense.  And as far as I canC > : > tell, no one has ever killed off a business unit that clearedy& > : > $800 million per year in profit. > :i > : >     Can you name one?o > :o& > : Compaq and T64. GMs loco division. > :  > 6 > General Motor's locomotive division is still alive.. > ( >    http://www.gmemd.com/en/locomotive/ >    GM-EMD[ > . >   "Electro-Motive... A Leader in Locomotives > G >    For over 80 years Electro-Motive has provided quality products and J >    services to the railroad industry worldwide. EMD continues this proudJ >    history by producing freight and passenger locomotives for use in the >    U.S. and abroad..."  H My brother's employer (here in the W. Suburbs of Chgo.) makes a bunch ofH stuff for GM/EMD (gears and other machinery). Maybe *THAT'S* the line of work I shoulda gone into...(   -- ) David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systemsn http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/o   ------------------------------  $ Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 19:33:48 -05001 From: "Island (hpaq.net)" <dbturner@islandco.com>l$ Subject: Selling: AS1000a 4/266 $499/ Message-ID: <u8ladbic3hhk03@news.supernews.com>0   We have 10 x Alphaserver 1000a	 4/266 CPU+ CDROM and Floppy	 No memory  No disk= No NIC  L These are in great shape - and currently are sitting on a pallet ready for a home !   Selling at $499 each  ' Shipping (including ISOCYENENE packing)o   West Coast: $120 East Coast: $100 Mid West: $100   UK: US$ 160+ EU:  US$ 200 Oz:  US$ 260       -- Island Computers US Corp.- 2700 Gregory Street> Savannah GA 31404  Toll Free: 1-877 636 4332( International: 001 912 447 6622u  Facsimile:      001 912 201 0096 dbturner@hpaq.net  www.hpaq.net   ------------------------------   Date: 9 Mar 2002 17:40:44 -0800u From: wingwong@witty.com (wing)  Subject: SMG= Message-ID: <873e96d6.0203091740.18e43a73@posting.google.com>-   Hi,-  A I am new to SMG and I am trying to use SMG to write an UI to passl message to a server process.  0 I have read the openvms SMG$ manual and have try3 smg$create_pasteboard, smg$create_virtual_keyboard,o6 smg$create_virtual_display, smg$paste_virtual_display.  E However, when I use smg$read_string and try to read the function key1rE to break the program.  I find the code returned by smg$read_string isn 281 but SMG$K_TRM_PF1 is 256."   Besides, I need to h$ 1. check the tab to go to next field 2. set field lengthh 3. set field editability   Thanks in advance,   Wing   ------------------------------  $ Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 16:26:35 -0500* From: "Stanley F. Quayle" <stan@stanq.com>0 Subject: Timing on DECnet search list operations- Message-ID: <3C8A37BB.2724.9A55A39@localhost>>  C I have two systems, one of which is the "central" machine, and the cD other is a "satellite" machine.  There's a data file on the central 8 machine I need to access from the the satellite machine.  3 I've created a logical name search list as follows:i  9   $ DEFINE/SYS  XYZ_FILE   CEN::XYZ_FILE.DAT,XYZ_FILE.DATr  E If the central machine is down, I still need to access the file from _E somewhere, so I've created a batch job to copy the file on a regular 0 basis (say, hourly).  E My problem is:  if the central machine is down, it takes a long time  F for DECnet to time out and return an error.  (When I get the error, I * use the second value in the logical name.)  B How can I speed this up?  Is there a way to "feel" for node "CEN" & without having to create a connection?    
 --Stan Quayleg! President, Quayle Consulting Inc.   
 ----------G Stanley F. Quayle, P.E.   N8SQ   +1 614-868-1363   Fax: +1 614 868-1671l1 8572 North Spring Ct. NW, Pickerington, OH  43147 = Preferred address:  stan@stanq.com       http://www.stanq.com    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 17:28:00 -0500-- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>:4 Subject: Re: Timing on DECnet search list operations, Message-ID: <3C8A8C64.CEB765B5@videotron.ca>   "Stanley F. Quayle" wrote:; >   $ DEFINE/SYS  XYZ_FILE   CEN::XYZ_FILE.DAT,XYZ_FILE.DAT.  F > My problem is:  if the central machine is down, it takes a long time- > for DECnet to time out and return an error.p  2 Have you considered clustering the two machines ?   F If not, I am not 100% sure of this, but wouldn't reducing NCP SET EXEC OUTGOING_TIMER be your ticket ?p   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 23:32:30 +0100g- From: Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@Free.fr>a4 Subject: Re: Timing on DECnet search list operations' Message-ID: <3C8A8D83.E4247C82@Free.fr>u  G Yes, there is with DECnet-Plus a timeout parameter (I do not remind its G name right now) that you can setup with NCL. I have used this technique"F to enable DECnet task-to-task communication via a TCP/IP gateway (hackH still to be posted here one day) when DECnet is running on two nodes but. where DEcnet routing is not available. I do a:  * $ open/read/err=TMO ch REMNOD::dummy.dummy  D and after the NCL timeout (say 5 seconds), I get a branch to the TMO! label and do my other processing.   9 I'll post the piece of code Monday when I'm back to work.o   D.     "Stanley F. Quayle" wrote: > D > I have two systems, one of which is the "central" machine, and theE > other is a "satellite" machine.  There's a data file on the centrali: > machine I need to access from the the satellite machine. > 5 > I've created a logical name search list as follows:i > ; >   $ DEFINE/SYS  XYZ_FILE   CEN::XYZ_FILE.DAT,XYZ_FILE.DATo > F > If the central machine is down, I still need to access the file fromF > somewhere, so I've created a batch job to copy the file on a regular > basis (say, hourly). > F > My problem is:  if the central machine is down, it takes a long timeG > for DECnet to time out and return an error.  (When I get the error, Io, > use the second value in the logical name.) > C > How can I speed this up?  Is there a way to "feel" for node "CEN"a( > without having to create a connection? >  > --Stan Quaylea# > President, Quayle Consulting Inc.h >  > ----------I > Stanley F. Quayle, P.E.   N8SQ   +1 614-868-1363   Fax: +1 614 868-1671a3 > 8572 North Spring Ct. NW, Pickerington, OH  43147M? > Preferred address:  stan@stanq.com       http://www.stanq.comm   ------------------------------  $ Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 20:34:36 -0500* From: "Stanley F. Quayle" <stan@stanq.com>4 Subject: Re: Timing on DECnet search list operations, Message-ID: <3C8A71DC.7482.45CFF2@localhost>  H > > My problem is:  if the central machine is down, it takes a long time/ > > for DECnet to time out and return an error. 4 > Have you considered clustering the two machines ?   F Unfortunately, the application precludes clustering -- it's a factory B control application, and a cluster transition would be a Very Bad  Thing.  H > If not, I am not 100% sure of this, but wouldn't reducing NCP SET EXEC! > OUTGOING_TIMER be your ticket ?   F The target system is VMS 5.5-2, and they're running DECnet Phase IV.  E So, that might work.  Wonder what the corresponding parameter is for r DECnet Plus.  E DECnet "knows" who it has heard recently.  Shame I can't look in its 31 tables to see if that node is still on the air...     
 --Stan Quayle ! President, Quayle Consulting Inc.t  
 ----------G Stanley F. Quayle, P.E.   N8SQ   +1 614-868-1363   Fax: +1 614 868-1671n1 8572 North Spring Ct. NW, Pickerington, OH  43147n= Preferred address:  stan@stanq.com       http://www.stanq.comh   ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 02:30:04 GMT # From: ualski <ualski@earthlink.net>d4 Subject: Re: Timing on DECnet search list operations- Message-ID: <3C8AC523.801F6183@earthlink.net>d   "Stanley F. Quayle" wrote:J > > If not, I am not 100% sure of this, but wouldn't reducing NCP SET EXEC# > > OUTGOING_TIMER be your ticket ?a > F > The target system is VMS 5.5-2, and they're running DECnet Phase IV.F > So, that might work.  Wonder what the corresponding parameter is for > DECnet Plus. > F > DECnet "knows" who it has heard recently.  Shame I can't look in its3 > tables to see if that node is still on the air...j >  > --Stan QuayleMI How about a process declares itself a decnet object and whose only job isDJ to respond to "ping"-like I/O's.  The local machine might query the remoteG node(s) at some interval and define your logical name to be whatever is@H suitable. No need to figure out how to work around decnet timeouts since you handle that yourself.t   -- Aaron Sliwinski   ------------------------------   Date: 9 Mar 2002 22:02:24 +0100s* From: eplan@kapsch.net (Peter LANGSTOEGER)( Subject: Re: UCX$TELNETSYM error message( Message-ID: <3c8a7860@news.kapsch.co.at>  q In article <20020308130850.37956.qmail@web20210.mail.yahoo.com>, Fabio Cardoso <fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br> writes:l/ >Do you have any idea why this message below isd >generated ?   Idea ? Yes.g  3 >"Fri Mar  8 10:01:51 2002, open_socket_ast invokeda7 >with bad IOSB 660: connect to network object rejected"h  E The printer server was not accepting the connection to the [TCP] portaG (eg. 9100). This could happen, because the printerserverbox (LANTRONIX)lG is in use by more than one printerqueueserver (OpenVMS, NT) at the sameeM time or because the printer is offline (depends also on the printerserverbox)-  6 >I have a printer connected in a Lantronix printserver+ >and I am receiving this message in the log ! >file: UCX$TELNETSYM_printer.LOG;e  6 If the printing job comes through at all, ignore them.   -- A< Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER           Tel.    +43 1 81111 2651; Network and OpenVMS system manager  Fax.    +43 1 81111 888y< KAPSCH AG      Wagenseilgasse 1     E-mail  eplan@kapsch.netH A-1121 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              "I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist"   ------------------------------   Date: 9 Mar 2002 14:22:28 -0800l% From: stan@lsua.edu (Stanley Hippler)  Subject: Re: VFC File Problemn= Message-ID: <782cd74d.0203091422.32f2f18d@posting.google.com>e  t "Barry in Indy" <bleadhurwitz@uindy.edu> wrote in message news:<oH9i8.7595$k5.3018055@newssvr28.news.prodigy.com>...  ,    If I may suggest an alternative method...  +        1) copy sba520rpt.prt sba520rpt.save-4        2) Set file/attribute=(rfm:var) sba520rpt.prt        3) edit sba520rpt.prt5        4) Set file/attributes=(rfm:vfc) sba520rpt.prtP  H    The VFC information should appear as the first two characters of each3    record (backward question marks with my editor).s      Hope this helps.h   --stan  I > I have to deal with print files which are generated by a vendor's printeM > spooling program. There are occasions when it would be useful to be able totH > edit the file before printing; for example, when a heading has a typo.K > Rerunning the program is difficult, because usually database updates havel > been performed.n > L > When I edit the file with EVE, saving the file results in a message sayingJ > FILE FORMAT IS BEING CONVERTED TO A SUPPORTED TYPE. The file then printsN > incorrectly. Is there any way to either not convert the file when saving it, > or to reformat it using FDL? >  > Here's the FDL before EVE: > < >         IDENT   " 8-MAR-2002 15:47:41  OpenVMS FDL Editor" >  >         SYSTEM3 >                 SOURCE                  "OpenVMS"t >  >         FILE. >                 ALLOCATION              3384, >                 BEST_TRY_CONTIGUOUS     no, >                 CLUSTER_SIZE            18, >                 CONTIGUOUS              no+ >                 EXTENSION               0-, >                 FILE_MONITORING         no+ >                 GLOBAL_BUFFER_COUNT     0cL >                 NAME                    "DKA100:[IASIPRT]SBA520RPT.PRT;93"4 >                 ORGANIZATION            sequential; >                 OWNER                   [TESTING,SISUSER]mC >                 PROTECTION              (system:RWED, owner:RWED,> > group:RWED, world:RE)h >  >         RECORD- >                 BLOCK_SPAN              yes>/ >                 CARRIAGE_CONTROL        printo+ >                 CONTROL_FIELD_SIZE      2t- >                 FORMAT                  VFCc- >                 SIZE                    132y >  >  > And after EVE: > < >         IDENT   " 8-MAR-2002 15:56:57  OpenVMS FDL Editor" >  >         SYSTEM3 >                 SOURCE                  "OpenVMS"d >  >         FILE. >                 ALLOCATION              3258, >                 BEST_TRY_CONTIGUOUS     no, >                 CLUSTER_SIZE            18, >                 CONTIGUOUS              no+ >                 EXTENSION               0 , >                 FILE_MONITORING         no+ >                 GLOBAL_BUFFER_COUNT     0:E >                 NAME                    "DKA100:[IASIS]TEMP.PRT;94" 4 >                 ORGANIZATION            sequential; >                 OWNER                   [TESTING,SISUSER]iC >                 PROTECTION              (system:RWED, owner:RWED,F > group:RWED, world:RE)i >  >         RECORD- >                 BLOCK_SPAN              yess9 >                 CARRIAGE_CONTROL        carriage_returnl2 >                 FORMAT                  variable+ >                 SIZE                    0y >  > Thanks for any assistance!   ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 00:12:34 GMTt) From: James Norris <jnorris@metronet.com>, Subject: Re: VFC File Problemy, Message-ID: <3C8AA46D.124B8100@metronet.com>   "Farrell, Michael" wrote:h  > > Which brings up another question that's always perplexed me: >r@ > Why doesn't DCL write RMS Sequential files?  Why are they VFC?  N Well, one reason is that VFC files are one of the many types of RMS sequential files.   Jim    ------------------------------   Date: 9 Mar 2002 14:56:35 -0600l- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) = Subject: Viability of a Commercial ISO-9960 formatter for VMSf3 Message-ID: <wmpkRIqtuu6a@eisner.encompasserve.org>m  [ In article <3C8988E3.5D892030@fsi.net>, "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> writes:  > Larry Kilgallen wrote:  D >> If you want a commercial product, the question is the same as for/ >> porting SCAN to Alpha -- is there a market ?- >  > Ask yourself:M > = > o How often does this question come up here in comp.os.vms?: > ? > o How many entries on this topic are there in Ask the Wizard?f >  > Have you any other questions?p  = Discussion in comp.os.vms does not indicate market, but as an>8 experiment we can take a survey to determine the market.  C I would normally resist the urge to start surveys in the newsgroup, > but in this case I predict there will be few enough meaningful' answers that no burden will be imposed:   . 	1. What is the maximum _you_ would be willing1 	   to pay for a single concurrent user license ?   1 	2. What is the maximum number of concurrent user / 	   license for which _you_ would be willing top1 	   pay if the price were only 10% of the above ?t  > Please refrain from answering if the answer to either question is zero.   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 23:17:05 GMTt From: system@SendSpamHere.ORGcA Subject: Re: Viability of a Commercial ISO-9960 formatter for VMS 0 Message-ID: <00A0AB1F.12269001@SendSpamHere.ORG>  c In article <wmpkRIqtuu6a@eisner.encompasserve.org>, Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) writes: \ >In article <3C8988E3.5D892030@fsi.net>, "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> writes: >> Larry Kilgallen wrote:h >wE >>> If you want a commercial product, the question is the same as fors0 >>> porting SCAN to Alpha -- is there a market ? >> o >> Ask yourself: >> n> >> o How often does this question come up here in comp.os.vms? >> t@ >> o How many entries on this topic are there in Ask the Wizard? >> g  >> Have you any other questions? >o> >Discussion in comp.os.vms does not indicate market, but as an9 >experiment we can take a survey to determine the market.t >kD >I would normally resist the urge to start surveys in the newsgroup,? >but in this case I predict there will be few enough meaningfulj( >answers that no burden will be imposed: > / >	1. What is the maximum _you_ would be willing-2 >	   to pay for a single concurrent user license ? > 2 >	2. What is the maximum number of concurrent user0 >	   license for which _you_ would be willing to2 >	   pay if the price were only 10% of the above ? > ? >Please refrain from answering if the answer to either questions	 >is zero.t    K For what product?  Commercial ISO-9960 formatter for VMS or SCAN for Alpha?e   --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COMo             J   "And of course, I'm a genius, so people are naturally drawn to my fiery I   intellect.  Their admiration overwhelms their envy!" -- Calvin & Hobbesy   ------------------------------   Date: 9 Mar 2002 18:06:14 -0600 - From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)eA Subject: Re: Viability of a Commercial ISO-9960 formatter for VMSo3 Message-ID: <WW3DJsDXQn28@eisner.encompasserve.org>b  P In article <00A0AB1F.12269001@SendSpamHere.ORG>, system@SendSpamHere.ORG writes:e > In article <wmpkRIqtuu6a@eisner.encompasserve.org>, Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) writes:   E >>I would normally resist the urge to start surveys in the newsgroup,r@ >>but in this case I predict there will be few enough meaningful) >>answers that no burden will be imposed:M >>0 >>	1. What is the maximum _you_ would be willing3 >>	   to pay for a single concurrent user license ?  >>3 >>	2. What is the maximum number of concurrent user 1 >>	   license for which _you_ would be willing ton3 >>	   pay if the price were only 10% of the above ?n >>@ >>Please refrain from answering if the answer to either question
 >>is zero. >  > M > For what product?  Commercial ISO-9960 formatter for VMS or SCAN for Alpha?a  < The former.  Tom Linden already ran a survey for the latter.   ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 01:33:56 GMTh1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>aA Subject: Re: Viability of a Commercial ISO-9960 formatter for VMSa' Message-ID: <3C8AB9F1.BAB49B88@fsi.net>-   Larry Kilgallen wrote: > ] > In article <3C8988E3.5D892030@fsi.net>, "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> writes:9 > > Larry Kilgallen wrote: > F > >> If you want a commercial product, the question is the same as for1 > >> porting SCAN to Alpha -- is there a market ?a > >  > > Ask yourself:  > >a? > > o How often does this question come up here in comp.os.vms?$ > >eA > > o How many entries on this topic are there in Ask the Wizard?  > >e! > > Have you any other questions?i > 5 > Discussion in comp.os.vms does not indicate market,y  F Well, actually yes it does. Be that as it may (and it certainly is)...   > but as ane: > experiment we can take a survey to determine the market. > E > I would normally resist the urge to start surveys in the newsgroup,-@ > but in this case I predict there will be few enough meaningful) > answers that no burden will be imposed:e > 7 >         1. What is the maximum _you_ would be willingl: >            to pay for a single concurrent user license ? > : >         2. What is the maximum number of concurrent user8 >            license for which _you_ would be willing to: >            pay if the price were only 10% of the above ? > @ > Please refrain from answering if the answer to either question
 > is zero.  G Sorry, but the answer to both *MUST* be zero ($0) over and above the OSmE base license fee. As repeated queries would seem to indicate, this isr3 expected of the OS without any additional licenses.n  @ See, part of VMS's problem is viewing each little bit of common,C expected functionality as a separate profit center. Examples: UntileG recently, UCX (TCP/IP Svcs) DCPS and such have been treated as separateeE profit centers. Some of these items are now included in the base OVMSQH license. I am of the opinion (though I am, perhaps, the only one who mayF be of such mind) that this has contributed to a slowing in the declineE of VMS as opposed to what it might have been had this not happened. Im7 realize this would be difficult or impossible to prove.-  G However, so long as this paradigm dominates, VMS will continue down itsm? present course. As soon as a more realistic paradigm - one morerG congruent with the current marketplace - emerges and begins to make itse9 effects known, we'll start to see hints of a turn-around.Z  A Try to imagine if M$ tried to license its proprietary networking,kE TCP/IP, file sharing, print sharing, web browsing, etc. separately asyG OVMS does. Suppose you needed a separate license for each element of M$eG Orifice, the interface to the e-mail transfer agent (Exchange) licensedeC separately from the user-agent (LookOut). Suppose OLE were licensed28 separately from the OLE-capable applications. ...ODBC...   Starting to get the picture?  G We've as yet heard no authoritative answer (feel free to correct me) aseE to whether VMS/RMS will honor RMS metadata in ISO-9660 files systems.rB Without this piece, third-party support for writing it is useless.   -- l David J. Dachteras dba DJE Systemsi http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/h   ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 05:54:59 GMTM- From: "John E. Malmberg" <wb8tyw@qsl.network>sA Subject: Re: Viability of a Commercial ISO-9960 formatter for VMSc* Message-ID: <3C8AF754.4090403@qsl.network>   David J. Dachtera wrote:C > Try to imagine if M$ tried to license its proprietary networking,fG > TCP/IP, file sharing, print sharing, web browsing, etc. separately ase > OVMS does.  E The last time I looked at a Microsoft Licensing statement, using the tC file and print sharing to connect to a Microsoft Server required a i license from Microsoft.Y? >  Suppose you needed a separate license for each element of M$cI > Orifice, the interface to the e-mail transfer agent (Exchange) licensede+ > separately from the user-agent (LookOut).r  I A license is needed for Exchange, also for most of the "connectors", and n3   IIRC, for the Outlook client to connect up to it.r  I > Suppose OLE were licensed separately from the OLE-capable applications.i
 >  ...ODBC...   H SQL Server requires both a server license, and a client access license. 2   MS Access is also a separately licensed product.  G If you write your own application, then you can use OLE and ODBC free. QF But connecting your application to the SQL server back end requires a G client access license.  If there was already an existing license, than aH an additional one is not needed, but at least one client access license 
 is needed.   > Starting to get the picture?  H TANSTAAFL.  In the PC world, you usually have to pay a license to put a C server product on a server.  Purchase another license to connect a oI client up to that server product.  Sometimes you also need a license for n the client product.t  H It can be very confusing to keep the licensing straight with all of the I bundles.  And you have to be careful about finding software installed by  E VARs, consultants, and other programmers that they did not realize a  * separate license was needed for something.  I > We've as yet heard no authoritative answer (feel free to correct me) assG > to whether VMS/RMS will honor RMS metadata in ISO-9660 files systems.tD > Without this piece, third-party support for writing it is useless.  I Consider that this is a weekend, so many of the people who could give an aI authorative answer are not likely to be looking at this forum.  And with dI about 200 Messages a day, a good deal of them non-technical, it is quite  > possible for a posting to get missed.  The best source for an 0 authorative answer is through official channels.  G I would be surprised if RMS did not know what to do with the metadata, -G but I do not know for sure.  I am also not aware of any ISO-9660 media n& with RMS data on it to do any testing.   -Johnp wb8tyw@qsl.network Personal Opinion Onlyr   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 23:24:07 +0100o- From: Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@Free.fr> # Subject: Re: VMS sys admin salaries ' Message-ID: <3C8A8B8D.6BA1750D@Free.fr>y  
 Yes, here.  H In Europe, an _independant_ senior experimented VMS system administratorH with good DECnet-IV/OSI and TCP/IP knowledge will be paied between 450 4 and 650  (how many  in an US$ ?) a day of 8 hours.  F If a Customer offers less than 450 , please tell him/her to decide toE become serious in his/her business life. We are less and less easy tonH find and the Customers *have* to follow the offer/request law (as we say in France).d  F Salaries for permanent positions, I do not know, but, to me, it should be 1/3 less.  
 Good luck.   D.   Steve Prescott wrote:  > T > Are there any places I can go to get salary ranges for a VMS system administrator?   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 23:15:14 GMTX' From: Steve Thompson <smt@vgersoft.com>8# Subject: Re: VMS sys admin salarieseG Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0203091814130.9113-100000@vger.vgersoft.com>i  ) On Sat, 9 Mar 2002, Didier Morandi wrote:a  J > In Europe, an _independant_ senior experimented VMS system administratorJ > with good DECnet-IV/OSI and TCP/IP knowledge will be paied between 450 6 > and 650  (how many  in an US$ ?) a day of 8 hours.  I Assuming that this is Euros, the range works out to from $49.22 to $71.11cH per hour. For the US, at least, this is on the low side for someone with 10+ years experience.T  H > Salaries for permanent positions, I do not know, but, to me, it should > be 1/3 less.  C On the same scale, for 1 year (2000 hours), this is from $65,627 to  $94,813 per year.a   Steve    ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 23:20:27 GMTo From: system@SendSpamHere.ORGA# Subject: Re: VMS sys admin salaries 0 Message-ID: <00A0AB1F.8A748272@SendSpamHere.ORG>  W In article <3C8A8B8D.6BA1750D@Free.fr>, Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@Free.fr> writes:s >Yes, here.1 >EI >In Europe, an _independant_ senior experimented VMS system administrator-I >with good DECnet-IV/OSI and TCP/IP knowledge will be paied between 450 d5 >and 650  (how many  in an US$ ?) a day of 8 hours.e  J What would one be paid if he/she has not experimented and does the subject of the experimentation matter?   --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COMu            rJ   "And of course, I'm a genius, so people are naturally drawn to my fiery I   intellect.  Their admiration overwhelms their envy!" -- Calvin & Hobbes    ------------------------------   Date: 9 Mar 2002 18:09:40 -0600f- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)e# Subject: Re: VMS sys admin salariesi3 Message-ID: <NM4404YxaQij@eisner.encompasserve.org>   q In article <Pine.LNX.4.33.0203091814130.9113-100000@vger.vgersoft.com>, Steve Thompson <smt@vgersoft.com> writes:c+ > On Sat, 9 Mar 2002, Didier Morandi wrote:t > K >> In Europe, an _independant_ senior experimented VMS system administratoruK >> with good DECnet-IV/OSI and TCP/IP knowledge will be paied between 450 n7 >> and 650  (how many  in an US$ ?) a day of 8 hours.  > K > Assuming that this is Euros, the range works out to from $49.22 to $71.11RJ > per hour. For the US, at least, this is on the low side for someone with > 10+ years experience.a > I >> Salaries for permanent positions, I do not know, but, to me, it should  >> be 1/3 less.  > E > On the same scale, for 1 year (2000 hours), this is from $65,627 to  > $94,813 per year.  >  > Stevee >  --  N ==============================================================================I The Boulder Pledge: "Under no circumstances will I ever purchase anything8J      offered to me as the result of an unsolicited email message. Nor willI      I forward chain letters, petitions, mass mailings, or virus warnings H      to large numbers of others. This is my contribution to the survival      of the online community."N ==============================================================================   ------------------------------   Date: 9 Mar 2002 18:11:37 -0600N- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)u# Subject: Re: VMS sys admin salariesO3 Message-ID: <s3Arh0kXpB$n@eisner.encompasserve.org>   q In article <Pine.LNX.4.33.0203091814130.9113-100000@vger.vgersoft.com>, Steve Thompson <smt@vgersoft.com> writes:T+ > On Sat, 9 Mar 2002, Didier Morandi wrote:E > K >> In Europe, an _independant_ senior experimented VMS system administrator-K >> with good DECnet-IV/OSI and TCP/IP knowledge will be paied between 450 O7 >> and 650  (how many  in an US$ ?) a day of 8 hours.  >  > Assuming that this is Euros,  @ Yes, from context <80> or [80] on my screen seems to mean Euros.  8 Note to others, spelling it out will reach more readers.   ------------------------------  $ Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 19:16:59 -05001 From: "Island (hpaq.net)" <dbturner@islandco.com> # Subject: Re: VMS sys admin salaries / Message-ID: <u8l9dsac3n3lb1@news.supernews.com>T  ( You see why people move to the USA ?!?!?   DT  2 Steve Thompson <smt@vgersoft.com> wrote in messageA news:Pine.LNX.4.33.0203091814130.9113-100000@vger.vgersoft.com... + > On Sat, 9 Mar 2002, Didier Morandi wrote:l >EL > > In Europe, an _independant_ senior experimented VMS system administratorL > > with good DECnet-IV/OSI and TCP/IP knowledge will be paied between 450 ?8 > > and 650 ? (how many ? in an US$ ?) a day of 8 hours. > K > Assuming that this is Euros, the range works out to from $49.22 to $71.11-J > per hour. For the US, at least, this is on the low side for someone with > 10+ years experience.V >FJ > > Salaries for permanent positions, I do not know, but, to me, it should > > be 1/3 less. >cE > On the same scale, for 1 year (2000 hours), this is from $65,627 tos > $94,813 per year.u >i > Steve  >y   ------------------------------   Date: 9 Mar 2002 18:38:25 -0600a- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)-# Subject: Re: VMS sys admin salaries 3 Message-ID: <OJxw3PA788To@eisner.encompasserve.org>e  c In article <u8l9dsac3n3lb1@news.supernews.com>, "Island (hpaq.net)" <dbturner@islandco.com> writes:R* > You see why people move to the USA ?!?!?  ' Because it offers more cost-of-living ?    ------------------------------   Date: 9 Mar 2002 20:42:25 -0800 ) From: john@ossc.net (John Gemignani, Jr.)q# Subject: Re: VMS sys admin salariesg= Message-ID: <35b06b78.0203092042.681848e5@posting.google.com>   U system@SendSpamHere.ORG wrote in message news:<00A0AB1F.8A748272@SendSpamHere.ORG>...sY > In article <3C8A8B8D.6BA1750D@Free.fr>, Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@Free.fr> writes:s
 > >Yes, here.. > >oK > >In Europe, an _independant_ senior experimented VMS system administratoriK > >with good DECnet-IV/OSI and TCP/IP knowledge will be paied between 450 w7 > >and 650  (how many  in an US$ ?) a day of 8 hours.o > L > What would one be paid if he/she has not experimented and does the subject  > of the experimentation matter?  F Well, if s/he hasn't been experimenting, then I suppose the subject isD moot.  On the other hand, someone who has been experimenting for 10+F years probably isn't worth all that much, assuming that the results ofC that experiment have probably not yet been forthcoming.  Now that's-	 patience.-  @ I suppose this is along the lines of how long a doctor or lawyer) practices before perfecting their career.    -Johnl   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2002.135 ************************