1 INFO-VAX	Sun, 10 Mar 2002	Volume 2002 : Issue 136       Contents:2 Re: best/most flexible preserve VMS files onto CD? Re: DCPS 1.2 and tcpip printing  DECwindows questions Re: DECwindows questions$ Re: Hobbyist DEC TCPIP - Telnet bug! Re: HostUnavailable problem  Re: HostUnavailable problem  Re: Itanium troubles Re: Itanium troubles! Re: Netcraft Uptime For OpenVMS ? ! Re: OPENVMS-HOBBYIST License PAK? E RE: R.I.P. OpenVMS - ISS Recommends That H-P Holders Vote in Favor of E Re: R.I.P. OpenVMS - ISS Recommends That H-P Holders Vote in Favor of + Re: Timing on DECnet search list operations  Re: VFC File Problem Re: VFC File Problem Re: VFC File Problem8 Re: Viability of a Commercial ISO-9960 formatter for VMS8 Re: Viability of a Commercial ISO-9960 formatter for VMS8 Re: Viability of a Commercial ISO-9960 formatter for VMSP Re: Why no DEFINE /GROUP=nnnn? (was re: define "group-logicals" at system startuP Re: Why no DEFINE /GROUP=nnnn? (was re: define "group-logicals" at system startuP Re: Why no DEFINE /GROUP=nnnn? (was re: define "group-logicals" at system startu( Why not we guys buy OpenVMS from Compaq?, Re: Why not we guys buy OpenVMS from Compaq?, Re: Why not we guys buy OpenVMS from Compaq?, Re: Why not we guys buy OpenVMS from Compaq?, RE: Why not we guys buy OpenVMS from Compaq?, Re: Why not we guys buy OpenVMS from Compaq?, Re: Why not we guys buy OpenVMS from Compaq?, Re: Why not we guys buy OpenVMS from Compaq?  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 13:21:50 -0500 ' From: Glenn Everhart <Everhart@gce.com> ; Subject: Re: best/most flexible preserve VMS files onto CD? ' Message-ID: <3C8BA43E.F0DED11A@gce.com>   D I don't much want to investigate the RMS attrributes issue just yet.H However I have taken sigtapes, used ZIP to save .obj files in zip formatH with -V .zip files, then made a big ZIP file of the whole volume withoutF -V, unzipped to disk, and used mkisofs to make an ISO9660 master. ThisF master was made using long filenames (the ISO9660 level 3 ones), and I: turned Rock Ridge on also. I don't recall if I did Joliet.H Anyway, the resulting CD read just fine in VMS, with the long filenames,K and read with long filenames on Linux, unix, and Windows (various flavors).   : I have no idea if MSDOS would read it; nor do I much care.  P I would maintain that for many purposes such a volume is a sensible distributionK format. All the files act as stream files, but VMS is not unhappy with this  on the whole.   Q You do lose the peculiarities of VMS file formats and the features those buy you, + but for many purposes these are not missed.   K That this can be done now, with available free tools, diminishes the appeal M of special tools to dual master or to encode RMS attributes. As RMS is likely M to evolve in the direction of accepting stream formats even more readily than O now, I doubt there is need to go otherwise. Someone who needs to store VMS ISAM H files and the like can just use a VMS filestructure like ODS2 or ODS5 onR CD or DVD. For everyone else, the long filename support already well understood by VMS ISO9660 is pretty decent.    Glenn Everhart     "David J. Dachtera" wrote: >  > Larry Kilgallen wrote: > > _ > > In article <3C898961.84FB3CE9@fsi.net>, "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> writes:  > > > Larry Kilgallen wrote: > > >>b > > >> In article <3C883A1B.9C6E5177@fsi.net>, "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> writes: > > >> > Hoff Hoffman wrote: > > >> >> [snip]? > > >> >>   Details on the OpenVMS CD-R options are in the FAQ.  > > >> >L > > >> > Unfortunately, the details we need are nowhere to be found, AFAICT: > > >> >H > > >> > o Assuming the ISO-9660 data cells are properly filled with RMSN > > >> > metadata, (i.e., RMS attributes are written to the IS0-9660 fs), will. > > >> > VMS/RMS look for them and honor them? > > >>G > > >> Certainly that information is on the source listings kit, but it H > > >> seems immaterial since VMS can read the ODS tree of a dual format > > >> CD-ROM. > > > 3 > > > ...and if the CD is ISO-9660 only, then what?  > > # > > With currently available tools,  >   > You just identified the cause. > " > > nobody who cares about the VMS5 > > market will write a CD-ROM that is ISO-9660 only.  > ! > You just identified the effect.  > D > The target is to eliminate the effect by addressing the cause in a > positive way.  >  > -- > David J. Dachtera  > dba DJE Systems  > http://www.djesys.com/ > * > Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page:! > http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 15:06:16 +0100 ( From: Paul Sture <paul.sture@bluewin.ch>( Subject: Re: DCPS 1.2 and tcpip printing) Message-ID: <3C8B6858.5080304@bluewin.ch>    Serge ZANGHERI wrote:   P > I know, it s very old, actually we re using 1.3 :-))) . But on this project we > must use this version.J > Anyway, do you think with 1.7 or later, we could print on OCE using DCPS
 > easily ? > Thanx  >  I came across a similar problem this week when adding a new printer, which we solved by upgraqding to 1.8. The 1.8 Release Notes contain more specific information. In particular, what error messages are you getting in OPERATOR.LOG ?    
 Paul Sture Switzerland    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 08:23:20 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>  Subject: DECwindows questions , Message-ID: <3C8B5E46.F0344B76@videotron.ca>   2 questions:  K 1- Is it possible to use the VUE$xxxxxx facilities from a command procedure J invoked in DECterm, or are those really restricted to being invoked by the session manager and FILEVIEW ?  G 2- a decnet task, invoked from another node, wants to start an xwindows J program. (for instance, node VELO starts a task on BIKE to start Mosaic to( display an html file on BIKE's display).  I Can the command procedure started as a decnet task simply assume that the L display device is WSA1: or must it CREATE/DISPLAY before invoking a xwindows program such as mosaic ?   ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 14:26:45 GMT - From: "John E. Malmberg" <wb8tyw@qsl.network> ! Subject: Re: DECwindows questions ( Message-ID: <3C8B6F30.90003@qsl.network>   JF Mezei wrote:  > 2 questions: > M > 1- Is it possible to use the VUE$xxxxxx facilities from a command procedure L > invoked in DECterm, or are those really restricted to being invoked by the  > session manager and FILEVIEW ?  G The VUE$xxxxx call backs and symbols only exist in Session Manager and  7 Fileview.  I do not use CDE so I do know know about it.   I > 2- a decnet task, invoked from another node, wants to start an xwindows L > program. (for instance, node VELO starts a task on BIKE to start Mosaic to* > display an html file on BIKE's display).  K > Can the command procedure started as a decnet task simply assume that the N > display device is WSA1: or must it CREATE/DISPLAY before invoking a xwindows > program such as mosaic ?  H A command procedure started as a DECNET task from a remote node usually I has no idea of what WSAn: devices are present, or to what display server  F they are actually connected to.  As such, they usually need to create 
 their own.  H If the command procedure had a reliable way of knowing that an existing 9 WSAn: device was set to, then it could probably reuse it.   G I usually just create a new WSAn: device for each DECNET object.  Some  + samples are on the FREEWARE 5.0 CD-ROM set.    -John  wb8tyw@qsl.network Personal Opinion Only    ------------------------------    Date: 10 Mar 2002 19:27:35 +0100  From: Cthulhu <noone@nowhere.it>- Subject: Re: Hobbyist DEC TCPIP - Telnet bug! ( Message-ID: <a6g8in$np$1@kadath.deep.it>  ) David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> wrote:   Q > them.  However, for a particular PAK, UCX for example, just enter LICENSE LOAD    ) Ah, LOAD it was! I was using ENABLE... :/    	imparatamente,  	   Cthulhu    --    D    Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu http://www.rlyeh.it/ wgah'nagl fhtgan!$ 		     <cthulhu (at) rlyeh (dot) it>   ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 14:37:20 GMT 1 From: "Mark D. Jilson" <jilly@clarityconnect.com> $ Subject: Re: HostUnavailable problem2 Message-ID: <3C8B7086.35EE1BD3@clarityconnect.com>  D Unfortunately a complete cluster reboot is your only option.  If youH mess up MSCP serving information then the only way to correct it is withE a complete reboot.  VMS does not have the ability to restructure disk 2 UCBs which is what would be required in this case.   Lee Y T Mah wrote: > A > We just added a new node D to our cluster.  Node D sees its two ? > local drives as D$DKA0 and D$DKA100.  However, D's two drives C > appeared to the rest of the cluster as $2$DKA0 and $2$DKA100.  We 0 > realized we had forgotten two important steps.5 >     In Sysgen                   SET DEVICE_NAMING 1 ( >     In SYSBOOT>>>      SET/CLASS PKA 0 > ? > We made the changes and rebooted D.  However, this is how the ; > other nodes now see D's two drives in DCL "$ SHOW DEV DK"  > B > Device                  Device                   Error    Volume > Free  Trans Mnt : >  Name                   Status                     Count > Label        Blocks Count Cnt 9 > D$DKA0:             HostUnavailable      0      (remote  > mount)                     1' >                               mounted * > D$DKA100:         HostUnavailable      0 > I > Can anyone suggest a method to make the two drives behave and appear in 8 > the normal state on the other cluster nodes.  That is, > B > Device                  Device                   Error    Volume > Free  Trans Mnt : >  Name                   Status                     Count > Label        Blocks Count Cnt ? > D$DKA0:             Mounted                  0        (remote  > mount)                   50 > D$DKA100:         Online                     0 > > > My final solution (undesirable) will be to reboot each node. >  > -- > Lee  >  > lytmah@telusplanet.net   --  D Jilly	- Working from Home in the Chemung River Valley - Lockwood, NY0 	- jilly@clarityconnect.com			- Brett Bodine fan. 	- Mark.Jilson@Compaq.com			- since 1975 or so, 	- http://www.jilly.baka.com               -   ------------------------------    Date: 10 Mar 2002 23:26:26 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>$ Subject: Re: HostUnavailable problem- Message-ID: <87bsdwe95p.fsf@prep.synonet.com>   , Lee Y T Mah <lytmah@telusplanet.net> writes:  > > My final solution (undesirable) will be to reboot each node.  C That is what you will have to do. Each node that has 'seen' the old 9 device name will not let the 'new' name into the cluster.    --  < Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda. @                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------    Date: 10 Mar 2002 09:55:03 -0500( From: Luis Fernandes <elf@ee.ryerson.ca> Subject: Re: Itanium troubles 0 Message-ID: <x0lmd0wjzs.fsf@radon.ee.ryerson.ca>  B >>>>> "jfmezei" == JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> writes:  3     >> The Itanic sank.  Intel did not expect that.   B     jfmezei> Oh, come on. I had some presentations done by DigitalE     jfmezei> during the Compaq takeover/integration where the Digital E     jfmezei> engineers made very convincing presentations on why IA64 @     jfmezei> would not fly anywhere as fast as predicted and howD     jfmezei> Intel would have problems producing it economically dueC     jfmezei> it ist very large size.  As if Intel didn't know that.   D Would there be any reason for Intel to develop a chip that was meant	 to fail?    C Did they not forsee the metaphors being invoked when they named the  chip?    ------------------------------   Date: 10 Mar 2002 18:28:12 GMT( From: nmm1@cus.cam.ac.uk (Nick Maclaren) Subject: Re: Itanium troubles 0 Message-ID: <a6g8js$p03$1@pegasus.csx.cam.ac.uk>  0 In article <x0lmd0wjzs.fsf@radon.ee.ryerson.ca>,* Luis Fernandes  <elf@ee.ryerson.ca> wrote:C >>>>>> "jfmezei" == JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> writes:  > 4 >    >> The Itanic sank.  Intel did not expect that. > C >    jfmezei> Oh, come on. I had some presentations done by Digital F >    jfmezei> during the Compaq takeover/integration where the DigitalF >    jfmezei> engineers made very convincing presentations on why IA64A >    jfmezei> would not fly anywhere as fast as predicted and how E >    jfmezei> Intel would have problems producing it economically due D >    jfmezei> it ist very large size.  As if Intel didn't know that. > E >Would there be any reason for Intel to develop a chip that was meant 
 >to fail?   A Conceivably.  In practice, no.  Even after it was generally known > that the Merced would not fly, I doubt that most people withinA Intel thought that it would actually sink.  Nobody predicted even ? half of its disasters, and I have been predicting that it would A not perform well (and why) since the IA-64 project was announced. ? But there were a LOT of detailed problems with the hardware, as  well.   C I can certainly tell you that few people thought that it would sink B even as late as a year ago - by then, Intel may have known it, butB I don't think that any of their partners did.  And that isn't just? guesswork, incidentally, because I KNOW that several large OEMs > didn't know.  At least two of them signed multi-million dollar? contracts on the basis of the chip's availability - note that I A was not involved with either, or I wouldn't be posting, but other % people may know which ones I mean :-)   D >Did they not forsee the metaphors being invoked when they named the >chip?    B Evidently not.  Given that the film had only just come out and was@ being widely talked about, the spin doctors that named it shouldB have been shot - and may well have been, when Intel discovered theB fiasco they had made of that.  It is possible, of course, that theB senior Intel executives speak to only the brown-nosed, and haven't; heard that the name as well as the chip is a standing joke.   C All rumours are that Intel will try and salvage the name by calling C the McKinley the Itanium Plus (or something), which is a bit risky, ? but I doubt that anyone below the top 3-4 people dare suggest a A name change on the grounds of avoiding contamination.  After all, C the official line is that it didn't sink, but was merely retargeted  as a development chip.     Regards, Nick Maclaren,* University of Cambridge Computing Service,> New Museums Site, Pembroke Street, Cambridge CB2 3QH, England. Email:  nmm1@cam.ac.uk/ Tel.:  +44 1223 334761    Fax:  +44 1223 334679    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 15:25:57 +0100 ( From: Paul Sture <paul.sture@bluewin.ch>* Subject: Re: Netcraft Uptime For OpenVMS ?) Message-ID: <3C8B6CF5.9060900@bluewin.ch>    GreyCloud wrote:   > Jerry Leslie wrote:  >  > + >>Paul Sture (paul.sture@bluewin.ch) wrote:  >>: Um, try C >>: http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph/?mode_u=off&mode_w=on&site= ) >>: www.openvms.compaq.com&submit=Examine  >> >>This is what I got:  >>B >>  "No uptime is currently available for www.openvms.compaq.com." >>! >>but I get this for www.sun.com:  >>6 >>  "Uptime Charts and Statistics for www.sun.com ..." >> >>Jerry  >> >> > K > I think that M$ pays netcraft in my opinion.  OpenVMS would embarass the   > rest of the o/ses out there. > $ It certainly _used_ to be listed :-(    
 Paul Sture Switzerland    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 16:37:06 +0100 ( From: Paul Sture <paul.sture@bluewin.ch>* Subject: Re: OPENVMS-HOBBYIST License PAK?) Message-ID: <3C8B7DA2.7000906@bluewin.ch>    Bart Zorn wrote:  7 > "Paul Sture" <paul.sture@bluewin.ch> wrote in message % > news:3C89C632.9080306@bluewin.ch...  >  >>Larry Kilgallen wrote: >> >>7 >>>In article <3C865F3E.5080100@bluewin.ch>, Paul Sture  >>> ! > <paul.sture@bluewin.ch> writes:  >  >>>>Phillip Helbig wrote:  >>>> >>>>@ >>>>>>(Paul Sture, In Switzerland, do you load one, two or three >>>>>>language variant PAKs?)  >>>>>> >>>>>>< >>>>>Four.  About 1% of the population speak Rhaeto-Romansh. >>>>>0 >>>>>uL >>>>Correct in the number of official languages, but I don't think there's a >>>>VMS PAK for Rhaeto-RomanschE >>>>I >>>Too bad.  My wife was _very_ impressed by the previous indication that! >>>there was such a PAK. >>> J >>But Larry, I believe you have access to PAKGEN. Can't you run us one up? >> >>;-)U >> >>Paul Sture
 >>Switzerland- >> >> > ) > Well, is this what you are looking for?e > / > $! Software Product Authorization Key Replicae > $! Issued by BART   > $! Issued on  9-MAR-2002 10:40' > $!-----------------------------------i- > $ LICENSE REGISTER VMS-UI-RHAETO-ROMANSCH -m > /ISSUER=JUST_ME -m' > /AUTHORIZATION=COMP_OS_VMS_PHANTASY -f > /PRODUCER=DEC -e > /UNITS=0 -! > /TERMINATION_DATE=1-APR-2002  -r > /ACTIVITY=CONSTANT=100 - > /OPTIONS=(MOD_UNITS) -! > /CHECKSUM=1-LMAA-HGOC-GEKP-DEBKn >  > :-)e >  > Bart   $ @VMS-UI-RHAETO-ROMANSCH.come- $! Software Product Authorization Key Replicar $! Issued by BARTs $! Issued on  9-MAR-2002 10:40% $!-----------------------------------a+ $ LICENSE REGISTER VMS-UI-RHAETO-ROMANSCH -n /ISSUER=JUST_ME -e% /AUTHORIZATION=COMP_OS_VMS_PHANTASY -a /PRODUCER=DEC -e
 /UNITS=0 - /TERMINATION_DATE=1-APR-2002  -e /ACTIVITY=CONSTANT=100 - /OPTIONS=(MOD_UNITS) - /CHECKSUM=1-LMAA-HGOC-GEKP-DEBKh! $ lic load VMS-UI-RHAETO-ROMANSCHaF %LICENSE-I-LOADED, DEC VMS-UI-RHAETO-ROMANSCH was successfully loaded  with 0 units& $ lic list VMS-UI-RHAETO-ROMANSCH/fullG Use CTRL/Z to exit, PF3-PF4 for Previous-Next Screen and Arrow Keys to 1 scroll. #   License Management Facility  V1.2c  C   License Database File:       SYS$COMMON:[SYSEXE]LMF$LICENSE.LDB;1s*   Created on:                  27-OCT-2000%   Created by user:             SYSTEMt#   Created by LMF Version:      V1.2a  %   -----------------------------------f&   Issuer:                      JUST_ME3   Authorization:               COMP_OS_VMS_PHANTASY 5   Product Name:                VMS-UI-RHAETO-ROMANSCH6"   Producer:                    DEC    Units:                       0"   Version:                     0.0%   Release Date:                (none).*   PAK Termination Date:         1-APR-2002    Availability:                0)   Activity:                     000000100a(   Options:                     MOD_UNITS   Hardware ID:      Revision Level:              1    0 LOL! The termination date is _very_ appropriate.   __
 Paul Sture Switzerlando   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 08:23:01 -0500 + From: "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@Compaq.com>eN Subject: RE: R.I.P. OpenVMS - ISS Recommends That H-P Holders Vote in Favor ofT Message-ID: <BE56C50EA024184DAF48F0B9A47F5CF4016CEB7F@kaoexc01.americas.cpqcorp.net>  E >>> I imagine a request under the US Freedom of Information Act woulde0 reveal if that is what Kerry does with his...<<<  C Somehow I don't think the SEC (or the Canadian flavour) is going toiG worry about what my total number of shares are doing ..But, I certainlyh  would like to have that problem.   :-)i   Regards,  
 Kerry Main Senior Consultantl Compaq Canada Corp.  Professional Servicesd Voice: 613-592-46606 Fax  :  819-772-7036 Email: Kerry.Main@Compaq.com     -----Original Message-----7 From: Larry Kilgallen [mailto:Kilgallen@SpamCop.net]=20@ Sent: March 9, 2002 7:09 PM  To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.ComtE Subject: RE: R.I.P. OpenVMS - ISS Recommends That H-P Holders Vote in. Favor of    
 In articleH <BE56C50EA024184DAF48F0B9A47F5CF401AB1D34@kaoexc01.americas.cpqcorp.net>/ , "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@Compaq.com> writes:eH >>>> Isn't it because Bill has filed with the SEC to slowly sell off all > his stocks in Msft.>>> >=20J > Actually, from what I have heard, it is common practice by many large=20G > stock owners to tell the SEC every 6 months about a large block of=20iJ > shares they plan to sell . That way they can sell when the time is up=20E > or alternatively they can keep them. But telling the SEC every 6=20 J > months (or whatever the min time is), it gives them a constant window=20& > to raise some cash for other things.  H I imagine a request under the US Freedom of Information Act would reveal& if that is what Kerry does with his...  - ..or perhaps not, since Kerry is Canadian :-)e   ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 16:56:21 GMTu1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>eN Subject: Re: R.I.P. OpenVMS - ISS Recommends That H-P Holders Vote in Favor of' Message-ID: <3C8B9226.69370935@fsi.net>    GreyCloud wrote: >  > David J. Dachtera wrote: >  > > GreyCloud wrote: > >> > >> Carl Perkins wrote: > >>? > >> > karcher@thuria.waisman.wisc.edu (Carl Karcher) writes... M > >> > }In a previous article, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote:n > >> > }->Osmo Kujala wrote:M > >> > }->> I think the situation has gone so far that VMS needs some kind ofl- > >> > alliance }->> (wrong word) with Linux.e
 > >> > }->H > >> > }->For as long as VMS is owned by a compay loyal to Microsoft and> > >> > Intel, VMS will }->not compete against Microsoft/Intel.
 > >> > }->> > >> > }->I still think that VMS should be aligned with APPLE. > >> > }J > >> > }Doesn't Billy Boy own something like 30% of apple too? Or was that > >> > just }a nightmare I had?iD > >> > }-- Carl Karcher, Waisman Computing Services, Waisman Center, > >> > UW-Madison  > >> > > >> >N > >> > Bill Gates doesn't even own 30% of Microsoft. (He owns under 15%, maybe9 > >> > even under 12% - it's somewhere in that vicinity.)c > >> >L > >> Isn't it because Bill has filed with the SEC to slowly sell off all hisM > >> stocks in Msft.  Seems like bill sees the handwriting on the wall and ise0 > >> getting out.  I think he filed last August. > >  > > *WOW*!!! > >aH > > Now *THAT* would make Enron look like a kid shoplifting at the local > > candy store... > >o > F > The sad part is you're going to find more and more companies raping,J > looting, and pillaging of large corporations and then filter down to theM > smaller ones.  If the DOJ doesn't hang the ENRON high execs, then the stage 0 > is set for more failures,... er profit taking.  F ...and the sadder part (for investors, common working people, etc.) is' that you are most likely quite correct!   H I'm slowly beginning to understand why business schools in the 90's wereE teaching students to "leave their ethics at home", and the results ofmG that philosophy are just beginning to manifest themselves in the publice eye.   -- y David J. Dachteraa dba DJE Systems? http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------    Date: 11 Mar 2002 00:16:40 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>4 Subject: Re: Timing on DECnet search list operations- Message-ID: <877koke6tz.fsf@prep.synonet.com>I  , "Stanley F. Quayle" <stan@stanq.com> writes:  C > How can I speed this up?  Is there a way to "feel" for node "CEN"1( > without having to create a connection?  A You HAVE to create a connection, or at least attempt it :) If youe? want to use DECnet , anyway. You are not running as a router ona? the factory machine (I guess) so the only places it could cachee> other node state data is the e-net node cache, and the address, of the 'designated router', if there is one.  @ Have you considered writting a pair of progs to do the xfer? The> central machine starts a 'know object' on the factory one, and= the existance of it is a flag that the central machine is up.e< As soon as it loses its link, it exits. The file xfer can by% done by them, or by any other method.-  : A quick local check would be 'MC NCP SHOw ACTive NODE' and; see if the central node is in the output. Or looking at thet9 links with the local NCP. Hum, I guess that sort of meetsr= your 'no conection' criteria. It is totally local IFF you cana6 be sure there will be at least one link at all time. A: 'MC NCP SHOw KNOwn LINKs WITH NODE <central>' Bugger, with> no links, NCP still returns SS$NORMAL... if the node exists...   -- w< Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.a@                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 14:37:26 +0100r( From: Paul Sture <paul.sture@bluewin.ch> Subject: Re: VFC File Problemo) Message-ID: <3C8B6196.9020902@bluewin.ch>   ! norm.raphael@jamesbury.com wrote:d   > N > There is a basic program (in a DSNLINK article) that converts the print file > bytessP > to <FF>, <CR>, and <LF> characters in the data record of the output file.  You > candO > then edit it and keep the formating or send it to O/S's that understand thoseg > characters > but not Print File Format. > 5 > (I also modified it to do rudamentary HTML output).  > m The Report Writer facility of VAX COBOL formats spoolfiles in this fashion (I haven't looked on Alpha COBOL).'    e IIRC the Control part of the VFC record is used to store codes for <FF> etc, also multiple linefeeds.e    I The print symbiont deals with these correctly, so another solution could tA be to figure out a way to redirect print symbiont output to file.i  G When I came across the problem, I only had a COBOL compiler available,  I and although it generates these files, it didn't have a means of getting  D at the VFC contents when reading them back in. I ended up writing a C program which read the files in block mode and did the RMS and VFC eA processing itself. The VFC control characters for these files is rG documented, although I don't remember precisiely where. An interesting t1 exercise, but I'm sure there's a neater solution.   
 Paul Sture Switzerland    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 16:53:38 +0100i( From: Paul Sture <paul.sture@bluewin.ch> Subject: Re: VFC File Problemo) Message-ID: <3C8B8182.1060506@bluewin.ch>    J-L. RAYON wrote:t  
 > You can try  >  > $ EDIT/TECO  MY_FILE.VFC
 > *exit $$7 > (where $$ is the echo of  2 times the <Escape> touch)o > G > This create a new version of the file conveted from VFC to sequential. >a  B Yes, but that loses the <FF> and multiple <LF> coding information.     K > VFC was very usuful in the (good?) old time because it reduce the size ofs > the print files format.g >D    b > Remember RM03 ....      ' I have worse memories of other stuff...>     __
 Paul Sture Switzerlandu   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 16:55:35 +0100o( From: Paul Sture <paul.sture@bluewin.ch> Subject: Re: VFC File Problemn) Message-ID: <3C8B81F7.3080106@bluewin.ch>o   Stanley Hippler wrote:  v > "Barry in Indy" <bleadhurwitz@uindy.edu> wrote in message news:<oH9i8.7595$k5.3018055@newssvr28.news.prodigy.com>... > . >    If I may suggest an alternative method... > - >        1) copy sba520rpt.prt sba520rpt.save 6 >        2) Set file/attribute=(rfm:var) sba520rpt.prt >        3) edit sba520rpt.prt7 >        4) Set file/attributes=(rfm:vfc) sba520rpt.prts > J >    The VFC information should appear as the first two characters of each5 >    record (backward question marks with my editor).t >  >    Hope this helps.  > # That looks a viable solution to me.c     __
 Paul Sture Switzerland    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 02:16:24 -0500q( From: David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>A Subject: Re: Viability of a Commercial ISO-9960 formatter for VMS6, Message-ID: <3C8B0848.3020607@tsoft-inc.com>   David J. Dachtera wrote:   > Larry Kilgallen wrote: > ] >>In article <3C8988E3.5D892030@fsi.net>, "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> writes:  >> >>>Larry Kilgallen wrote:a >>>oE >>>>If you want a commercial product, the question is the same as forr0 >>>>porting SCAN to Alpha -- is there a market ? >>>> >>>Ask yourself: >>>-> >>>o How often does this question come up here in comp.os.vms? >>>a@ >>>o How many entries on this topic are there in Ask the Wizard? >>>j  >>>Have you any other questions? >>>t5 >>Discussion in comp.os.vms does not indicate market,d >> > H > Well, actually yes it does. Be that as it may (and it certainly is)...    Q Well, it's arguable that interest in a capability, in any venue, does indicate a j POSSIBLE market.     >>but as ans: >>experiment we can take a survey to determine the market. >>E >>I would normally resist the urge to start surveys in the newsgroup,o@ >>but in this case I predict there will be few enough meaningful) >>answers that no burden will be imposed:j    S I don't know where this is coming from, or where it is going, but what the hell....r    7 >>        1. What is the maximum _you_ would be willinge: >>           to pay for a single concurrent user license ?     $300    : >>        2. What is the maximum number of concurrent user8 >>           license for which _you_ would be willing to: >>           pay if the price were only 10% of the above ?     10    @ >>Please refrain from answering if the answer to either question
 >>is zero. >> > I > Sorry, but the answer to both *MUST* be zero ($0) over and above the OSLG > base license fee. As repeated queries would seem to indicate, this is 5 > expected of the OS without any additional licenses.v     Ahhhh ......  No, it's not.n  P You get into MS stuff below, but NT server requires client licenses.  Lets talk + NT server, to keep things apples to apples.u    B > See, part of VMS's problem is viewing each little bit of common,E > expected functionality as a separate profit center. Examples: UntilbI > recently, UCX (TCP/IP Svcs) DCPS and such have been treated as separategG > profit centers. Some of these items are now included in the base OVMSsJ > license. I am of the opinion (though I am, perhaps, the only one who mayH > be of such mind) that this has contributed to a slowing in the declineG > of VMS as opposed to what it might have been had this not happened. Iw9 > realize this would be difficult or impossible to prove.a    O Again, wrong.  The EIS (or whatever) package that is included with base VMS on lS new systems is NOT part of base VMS.  It should be, at lease the DECnet and TCP/IP.     I > However, so long as this paradigm dominates, VMS will continue down its A > present course. As soon as a more realistic paradigm - one more I > congruent with the current marketplace - emerges and begins to make itsa; > effects known, we'll start to see hints of a turn-around.h    ( I don't know if that's the magic bullet.    C > Try to imagine if M$ tried to license its proprietary networking,,	 > TCP/IP,y    K Ha!  Microsoft's TCP/IP is a copy, with modifications, of the very old BSD 2P product.  Still, as I indicate above, the networking should be part of the base  OS license.-  ? > file sharing, print sharing, web browsing, etc. separately as I > OVMS does. Suppose you needed a separate license for each element of M$rI > Orifice, the interface to the e-mail transfer agent (Exchange) licensed E > separately from the user-agent (LookOut). Suppose OLE were licensedw: > separately from the OLE-capable applications. ...ODBC...    P Microsoft knows how to be monopolistic.  Get everyone on your stuff, then worry 9 about the money, because you'll be the only game in town.      > Starting to get the picture? > I > We've as yet heard no authoritative answer (feel free to correct me) as.G > to whether VMS/RMS will honor RMS metadata in ISO-9660 files systems.nD > Without this piece, third-party support for writing it is useless.   Ah, back to the issue.    L Custom device drivers can be added to VMS.  However, historically, many VMS P users have wanted their capabilities included in the OS, not from third parties.     Dave   -- :4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com6 T-Soft, Inc.  170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486   ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 16:40:06 GMTp1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>bA Subject: Re: Viability of a Commercial ISO-9960 formatter for VMSo' Message-ID: <3C8B8E56.95BA33AA@fsi.net>a   "John E. Malmberg" wrote:> >  > David J. Dachtera wrote:E > > Try to imagine if M$ tried to license its proprietary networking,fI > > TCP/IP, file sharing, print sharing, web browsing, etc. separately asm > > OVMS does. > F > The last time I looked at a Microsoft Licensing statement, using theD > file and print sharing to connect to a Microsoft Server required a > license from Microsoft.o  0 You would have to show me. I've never seen that.  A > >  Suppose you needed a separate license for each element of M$fK > > Orifice, the interface to the e-mail transfer agent (Exchange) licensedn- > > separately from the user-agent (LookOut).- > J > A license is needed for Exchange, also for most of the "connectors", and5 >   IIRC, for the Outlook client to connect up to it.E  F Again, you'd have to show me. All I've ever seen is you buy the server8 license (by buying the software distro.) and off you go.  K > > Suppose OLE were licensed separately from the OLE-capable applications.S > >  ...ODBC...u > I > SQL Server requires both a server license, and a client access license.!  G *THERE'S* the piece you seemed to be missing earlier. You don't licenseNF the individual services. You buy the server, period. *CLIENT* licenses are another matter.0  4 >   MS Access is also a separately licensed product.  G Again, you'd have to show me. In all my distro.'s (V4.3, 97 and 2K), itd comes with M$ Orifice.  H > If you write your own application, then you can use OLE and ODBC free.G > But connecting your application to the SQL server back end requires aF > client access license. e   ^^^^^^        ^^^^^^^c   *VERY* important distinction!l  0 > If there was already an existing license, thanI > an additional one is not needed, but at least one client access license  > is needed. >   > > Starting to get the picture? > 
 > TANSTAAFL. V   Translation, please...  = > In the PC world, you usually have to pay a license to put au > server product on a server.   E Again, you'd have to show me. Never seen that. We just buy the server ; distro., buy the client licenses in quantity and off we go.   ' > Purchase another license to connect a J > client up to that server product.  Sometimes you also need a license for > the client product.    Again, never seen that.y  I > It can be very confusing to keep the licensing straight with all of the J > bundles.  And you have to be careful about finding software installed byF > VARs, consultants, and other programmers that they did not realize a, > separate license was needed for something. > K > > We've as yet heard no authoritative answer (feel free to correct me) asPI > > to whether VMS/RMS will honor RMS metadata in ISO-9660 files systems.BF > > Without this piece, third-party support for writing it is useless. > J > Consider that this is a weekend, so many of the people who could give anJ > authorative answer are not likely to be looking at this forum.  And withJ > about 200 Messages a day, a good deal of them non-technical, it is quite? > possible for a posting to get missed.  The best source for anb2 > authorative answer is through official channels.  ! Been there, done that. No schmae.i  H > I would be surprised if RMS did not know what to do with the metadata,H > but I do not know for sure.  I am also not aware of any ISO-9660 media( > with RMS data on it to do any testing.   Hence, our quandry.n   -- M David J. Dachterac dba DJE Systemsn http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/7   ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 16:53:24 GMT@1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>sA Subject: Re: Viability of a Commercial ISO-9960 formatter for VMS>' Message-ID: <3C8B9173.5C45B275@fsi.net>d   David Froble wrote:  >  > David J. Dachtera wrote: >  > > Larry Kilgallen wrote: > > _ > >>In article <3C8988E3.5D892030@fsi.net>, "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> writes:  > >> > >>>Larry Kilgallen wrote:e > >>>tG > >>>>If you want a commercial product, the question is the same as forv2 > >>>>porting SCAN to Alpha -- is there a market ? > >>>> > >>>Ask yourself: > >>>u@ > >>>o How often does this question come up here in comp.os.vms? > >>> B > >>>o How many entries on this topic are there in Ask the Wizard? > >>> " > >>>Have you any other questions? > >>>,7 > >>Discussion in comp.os.vms does not indicate market,e > >> > >fJ > > Well, actually yes it does. Be that as it may (and it certainly is)... > R > Well, it's arguable that interest in a capability, in any venue, does indicate a > POSSIBLE market. > 
 > >>but as anr< > >>experiment we can take a survey to determine the market. > >>G > >>I would normally resist the urge to start surveys in the newsgroup,JB > >>but in this case I predict there will be few enough meaningful+ > >>answers that no burden will be imposed:a > U > I don't know where this is coming from, or where it is going, but what the hell....  > 9 > >>        1. What is the maximum _you_ would be willingo< > >>           to pay for a single concurrent user license ? >  > $300 > < > >>        2. What is the maximum number of concurrent user: > >>           license for which _you_ would be willing to< > >>           pay if the price were only 10% of the above ? >  > 10 > B > >>Please refrain from answering if the answer to either question > >>is zero. > >> > > K > > Sorry, but the answer to both *MUST* be zero ($0) over and above the OSnI > > base license fee. As repeated queries would seem to indicate, this is.7 > > expected of the OS without any additional licenses.  >  > Ahhhh ......  No, it's not.> > G > You get into MS stuff below, but NT server requires client licenses.    ? Not in my experince. You buy the shrink-wrapped server distro., F including the associated services and service licenses (all in one go,B not separately), and off you go. Client licenses are, of course, a separate issue.    > Lets talkr- > NT server, to keep things apples to apples.r > D > > See, part of VMS's problem is viewing each little bit of common,G > > expected functionality as a separate profit center. Examples: UntileK > > recently, UCX (TCP/IP Svcs) DCPS and such have been treated as separatepI > > profit centers. Some of these items are now included in the base OVMSiL > > license. I am of the opinion (though I am, perhaps, the only one who mayJ > > be of such mind) that this has contributed to a slowing in the declineI > > of VMS as opposed to what it might have been had this not happened. It; > > realize this would be difficult or impossible to prove.A > P > Again, wrong.  The EIS (or whatever) package that is included with base VMS onU > new systems is NOT part of base VMS.  It should be, at lease the DECnet and TCP/IP..  C Well, remember that original discussion focussed on the integration D between ISO-9660 support and MRS in the base OVMS product. So, we're3 really comparing peas to watermelons at this point.a  K > > However, so long as this paradigm dominates, VMS will continue down its C > > present course. As soon as a more realistic paradigm - one moretK > > congruent with the current marketplace - emerges and begins to make itsn= > > effects known, we'll start to see hints of a turn-around.e > * > I don't know if that's the magic bullet.  A There is no "magic bullet" other than getting the price down to arF reasonable level. All we're trying to do here is add nutrients to growE the product whose performance is, at best, anemic compared to what ittG could be doing (one of the most difficult concepts to get across, in myi experience).  E > > Try to imagine if M$ tried to license its proprietary networking,' > > TCP/IP,C > L > Ha!  Microsoft's TCP/IP is a copy, with modifications, of the very old BSDQ > product.  Still, as I indicate above, the networking should be part of the basea
 > OS license.   C Exactly my point, before we got off on all these tangents which are.6 actually outside the scope of the original discussion.  A > > file sharing, print sharing, web browsing, etc. separately as.K > > OVMS does. Suppose you needed a separate license for each element of M$0K > > Orifice, the interface to the e-mail transfer agent (Exchange) licensed G > > separately from the user-agent (LookOut). Suppose OLE were licensedl< > > separately from the OLE-capable applications. ...ODBC... > Q > Microsoft knows how to be monopolistic.  Get everyone on your stuff, then worry7; > about the money, because you'll be the only game in town.:  E ...until Linux comes along and at least part of the market says, "getm
 stuffed!".    > > Starting to get the picture? > >sK > > We've as yet heard no authoritative answer (feel free to correct me) asoI > > to whether VMS/RMS will honor RMS metadata in ISO-9660 files systems.uF > > Without this piece, third-party support for writing it is useless. >  > Ah, back to the issue. > M > Custom device drivers can be added to VMS.  However, historically, many VMSoR > users have wanted their capabilities included in the OS, not from third parties.    Indeed - the very issue at hand.  E ...and I don't know as adding a driver is quite the answer, since thefF subject must integrate with the $MOUNT, etc. and RMS-related services.; Looks more like an OS-extension to my rather warped vision.o   -- y David J. Dachteras dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/e   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 14:50:55 +0100t( From: Paul Sture <paul.sture@bluewin.ch>Y Subject: Re: Why no DEFINE /GROUP=nnnn? (was re: define "group-logicals" at system startui) Message-ID: <3C8B64BF.3040302@bluewin.ch>     Gotfryd Smolik, VMS lists wrote:  ) > On 7 Mar 2002, Peter LANGSTOEGER wrote:g > [...]i > B >>+But how to create this table in KERNEL mode (without hacking) ? >> > ; > Hm... Personally will not name a use of documented system  > routines a "hacking"... !l >  Required:) > - SYSNAM and call to the system serviceg >  or:, > - CMKRNKL and the call thru mode swithing.; >  ...the second may be treated as overkill :), but you mayi= > find example mentioned here in my post with Ferry comments:  > (sorry for loooong line !)v > http://groups.google.com/groups?as_q=cmkrnl&as_ugroup=comp.os.vms&as_uauthors=gotfryd%40stanpol.com.pl&num=100&hl=en > (first match)  >  Regards - Gotfryd > - But a lot of systems don't have compilers ...     
 Paul Sture Switzerlandb   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 14:49:09 +0100 ( From: Paul Sture <paul.sture@bluewin.ch>Y Subject: Re: Why no DEFINE /GROUP=nnnn? (was re: define "group-logicals" at system startue) Message-ID: <3C8B6455.9060708@bluewin.ch>n   Peter LANGSTOEGER wrote:  ] > In article <a6870d0279g@enews1.newsguy.com>, "Frank Sapienza" <sapienza@noesys.com> writes:  > F >>Being the realist that your signature claims you to be, I'm sure youA >>understand that there are times when you can't have everything.a >>- >>This would appear to be one of those times.t >> > N > I think you misunderstood. This my statement was only a rhetorical question. > L > As long as CREATE/NAME_TABLE has no /KERNEL qualifier the whole discussionN > with DEFINE/TABLE=LNM$GROUP* (or why the table gets cleared when a user logsN > in - because it was a /EXECUTIVE table and when the first user logs in, thenL > VMS creates an empty [kernel,no_alias] table and deletes the [exec] table)K > is useless. The only working approach was stated on the beginning of thiscI > thread with a workaround like SUBMIT/USER (or RUN/UIC). And this we all3( > know (or should know) for years now... >  Well put.SUBMIT/USER was the official recommendation we received from CSC when we encountered this problem with V4.0 (1985 in my case).s    I Although I think Larry's solution is more elegant from a technical point  D of view, I am happy to recommend SUBMIT/USER, since its use is more I widely documented and requires less technical know-how for the beginner. o KISS applies here.    
 Paul Sture Switzerlandn   ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 17:01:15 GMTn1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>mY Subject: Re: Why no DEFINE /GROUP=nnnn? (was re: define "group-logicals" at system startui' Message-ID: <3C8B934C.DDB0AE16@fsi.net>l   Paul Sture wrote:c > " > Gotfryd Smolik, VMS lists wrote: > + > > On 7 Mar 2002, Peter LANGSTOEGER wrote:e	 > > [...]a > >sD > >>+But how to create this table in KERNEL mode (without hacking) ? > >> > >u= > > Hm... Personally will not name a use of documented systeml > > routines a "hacking"... !n > >  Required:+ > > - SYSNAM and call to the system servicee > >  or:. > > - CMKRNKL and the call thru mode swithing.= > >  ...the second may be treated as overkill :), but you mayi? > > find example mentioned here in my post with Ferry comments:? > > (sorry for loooong line !)x > > http://groups.google.com/groups?as_q=cmkrnl&as_ugroup=comp.os.vms&as_uauthors=gotfryd%40stanpol.com.pl&num=100&hl=en > > (first match)  > >  Regards - Gotfryd > > / > But a lot of systems don't have compilers ...o  C If I were more technically astute, I'd have siezed that opportunityMF along time ago: produce freeware (language)-to-Macro/32 translator(s).  D "Compilable DCL" is a prime example of the need. Channel Islands hadC something a while back, but that required a Fortran license for theeB development system and a Run-time license for their product on the target system(s).t   -- t David J. Dachteral dba DJE Systemsp http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/o   ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 14:49:07 GMT / From: "john smith" <Xudongzong.0974@rogers.com> 1 Subject: Why not we guys buy OpenVMS from Compaq?M1 Message-ID: <DnKi8.66806$xG.28928@news2.bloor.is>r  L Looks like have a lot concerns with OpenVMS future. I am wondering if we canG set  up a new company can buy OpenVMS from Compaq. So we do not need tot worry about too much.   1 Will it cost 2 billions? Not sure if is feasible.e   ------------------------------  + Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 07:10:13 -0800 (PST)M. From: Fabio Cardoso <fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br>5 Subject: Re: Why not we guys buy OpenVMS from Compaq?e@ Message-ID: <20020310151013.47375.qmail@web20208.mail.yahoo.com>   may be n    ! if te openms consortium comes up a     regars   fc2 --- john smith <Xudongzong.0974@rogers.com> wrote:5 > Looks like have a lot concerns with OpenVMS future.t > I am wondering if we can4 > set  up a new company can buy OpenVMS from Compaq. > So we do not need to > worry about too much.i > 3 > Will it cost 2 billions? Not sure if is feasible.I >  >      =====o ========================== Fbio dos Santos Cardoso OpenVMS System Manager Rio de Janeiro - Brazil  fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br ==========================  2 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!?7 Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email!, http://mail.yahoo.com/   ------------------------------    Date: 10 Mar 2002 10:46:05 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)e5 Subject: Re: Why not we guys buy OpenVMS from Compaq? 3 Message-ID: <CEMopQDaXRVy@eisner.encompasserve.org>y  c In article <DnKi8.66806$xG.28928@news2.bloor.is>, "john smith" <Xudongzong.0974@rogers.com> writes:i5 > Looks like have a lot concerns with OpenVMS future.h   Only in this newsgroup.    > I am wondering if we canI > set  up a new company can buy OpenVMS from Compaq. So we do not need toh > worry about too much.p > 3 > Will it cost 2 billions? Not sure if is feasible.   ? If that is the price, then the question is whether every activel< participant in this newsgroup will provide 1 million dollars5 for the cause.  Will you take care of organizing it ?i   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 18:01:18 +0100I- From: Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@free.fr>c5 Subject: Re: Why not we guys buy OpenVMS from Compaq?.' Message-ID: <3C8B915E.3C378555@free.fr>6  N People, you are driving me nuts with this stupidity about "a lot concerns with OpenVMS future".  O 1. VMS engineering  has never worked so well since ages (well, you guys from ZKe understand, right?)D  L 2. Alpha systems are still being sold by HPAQ until end 2004 (see slide 4 inY http://www.openvms.compaq.com/openvms/roadmap/openvms_roadmaps_files/OPENVMS_ROADMAPS.PPTC  I 3. The porting of VMS to IA64 is currently being done and a first boot isS expected in july 2002t  N 4. COMPAQ has a unbreakable agreement with the DOD to continue VMS support for	 ten yearsc  8 5. VMS brings LOTS of $$$ to COMPAQ and tomorrow to HPAQ  P I do not see,... noone sees why HPAQ would kill the golden eggs goose (as we say
 in french)   So give us a break, will you?    thanks,e (flame off)    D.     john smith wrote:c > N > Looks like have a lot concerns with OpenVMS future. I am wondering if we canI > set  up a new company can buy OpenVMS from Compaq. So we do not need to  > worry about too much.n > 3 > Will it cost 2 billions? Not sure if is feasible.e   -- nH   ----------------------------------------------------------------------H MORANDI Consultants  -  WEB: http://Didier.Morandi.Free.fr/index_us.htmlH Pflanzschulstrasse 53, 8004 Zurich, Switzerland. GSM: +41 (0)79 705 4670H 19, chemin de la Butte, 31400 Toulouse, France.  GSM: +33 (0)6 7983 6418  H Disaster Recovery Plans, Computer Security Audits, DEC OpenVMS ExpertiseH On parle franais Man spricht Deutsch se habla Castellano English spoken   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 08:58:19 -0800a# From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com>d5 Subject: RE: Why not we guys buy OpenVMS from Compaq?l9 Message-ID: <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIMECEEFAA.tom@kednos.com>i   > -----Original Message-----6 > From: Larry Kilgallen [mailto:Kilgallen@SpamCop.net]& > Sent: Sunday, March 10, 2002 8:46 AM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Come7 > Subject: Re: Why not we guys buy OpenVMS from Compaq?  >  > A > In article <DnKi8.66806$xG.28928@news2.bloor.is>, "john smith"  & > <Xudongzong.0974@rogers.com> writes:7 > > Looks like have a lot concerns with OpenVMS future.o >  > Only in this newsgroup.l >  > > I am wondering if we canK > > set  up a new company can buy OpenVMS from Compaq. So we do not need tot > > worry about too much.e > > 5 > > Will it cost 2 billions? Not sure if is feasible.o > A > If that is the price, then the question is whether every activem> > participant in this newsgroup will provide 1 million dollars7 > for the cause.  Will you take care of organizing it ?t >   / I will organize it, just send the money here:-)    ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 17:09:29 GMTl1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>i5 Subject: Re: Why not we guys buy OpenVMS from Compaq? ' Message-ID: <3C8B9539.406375CA@fsi.net>n   john smith wrote:r > N > Looks like have a lot concerns with OpenVMS future. I am wondering if we canI > set  up a new company can buy OpenVMS from Compaq. So we do not need to. > worry about too much.s > 3 > Will it cost 2 billions? Not sure if is feasible.   F I think I'd heard/read a number closer to $4 billion at leat two yearsD ago. With VMS's market attrition, that may have gone lower, though I doubt it has halved.  G Venture capital may loosen up a few years on now that the ecomony seemshF to be recovering, barring any future acts of war against the US on the scale of 9/11.  F By the way, am I the only one who sees an association between the dateH 9/11 and our "universal" emergency telephone number of 911? Hope I don'tD sound paranoid, but I'm going to be staying close a radio come 4/11.F (Here in the states, you can generally dial 411 to reach what was onceB known as "directory assistance"; it's not what it once was at this; point, of course.) My recording Walkman has AM/FM built-in.    -- J David J. Dachtera. dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/i   ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 17:40:51 GMTa1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>35 Subject: Re: Why not we guys buy OpenVMS from Compaq?f' Message-ID: <3C8B9C93.8ACA7445@fsi.net>l   Hi, Didier,>  C I'll apologize up front for the tone of this. It's very bad. I just A couldn't hold it in, though. Please don't hold that against me...    Didier Morandi wrote:  > P > People, you are driving me nuts with this stupidity about "a lot concerns with > OpenVMS future". > Q > 1. VMS engineering  has never worked so well since ages (well, you guys from ZK  > understand, right?)o  ? Mon Deiu(sp?), Didier! You're starting to sound like Rob Young!s  D OVMS Engr. are the lambs and the sheep - they are not the issue. TheH issue is with their "shepherds", their management, the top-levels of the "Q".  N > 2. Alpha systems are still being sold by HPAQ until end 2004 (see slide 4 in[ > http://www.openvms.compaq.com/openvms/roadmap/openvms_roadmaps_files/OPENVMS_ROADMAPS.PPT>  D ...and when they run out Alpha chips to make CPU modules, then what?  K > 3. The porting of VMS to IA64 is currently being done and a first boot isr > expected in july 2002   H ...and if Itanic goes the way of Titanic, as some think it will, in thisC ng, in the media and in the industry (I have my doubts, also), thene what?   < In an American(?) metaphor, "too many 'eggs in one basket'".  P > 4. COMPAQ has a unbreakable agreement with the DOD to continue VMS support for > ten yearsr  E Many so-called "unbreakable agreement"s are dismissed in the US courtnE system every month, for a host of reasons. Even the "unbreakable" WTC $ towers were felled by the unforseen.  : > 5. VMS brings LOTS of $$$ to COMPAQ and tomorrow to HPAQ  H You're assuming that we're dealing with reasonable people. Experience to" date does not support such claims.  R > I do not see,... noone sees why HPAQ would kill the golden eggs goose (as we say > in french)  F ...and do you recall what happened to the "golden eggs goose" (also anB American idiom: "the goose that laid the golden egg")? 'Nuff said?   > So give us a break, will you?u  ; Sure - as soon as the "Q" give us one, we'll pass it along.e  " Again, sorry for the tone of this.  * But why do I slam such viewpoints so hard?  C I told my folks, for longer than I can remember at this point, thatiA their "lambs to the slaughter" attitude would be the end of them.   F In the late 80's and into the early 90's, my Dad complained of pain inE his thighs that seemed to run deep, to the bone. His doctor convincedsE him it was just the ravages of age (he was in his late seventies). In G late 1991, he was diagnosed with metastic prostate cancer that had gone E into his bones and large muscle groups. He had surgery, radiation andt< chemo., but got progressively sicker through 1992 and lastedE surprisingly long into 1993. He died 9-Dec-1993 at age 79, four weeksi7 after his birthday, 11-Nov (and yes, he was a veteran).t  ? His faith in his doctor and unwillingness to question the first F diagnosis was his undoing. By the time he saw a specialist, it was tooG late to save him. Two years ago, my Mom (now age 89) lost her vision towC wet-form macular degeneration for the same reason. Misplaced trust,o unwillingness to question.  H Now you know why I will not accept on faith that which makes no sense to# me in the grander scheme of things.r   -- e David J. Dachteran dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/b   ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 18:57:07 GMT  From: system@SendSpamHere.ORG 5 Subject: Re: Why not we guys buy OpenVMS from Compaq? 0 Message-ID: <00A0ABC3.EE43BE50@SendSpamHere.ORG>  c In article <CEMopQDaXRVy@eisner.encompasserve.org>, Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) writes: d >In article <DnKi8.66806$xG.28928@news2.bloor.is>, "john smith" <Xudongzong.0974@rogers.com> writes:6 >> Looks like have a lot concerns with OpenVMS future. >D >Only in this newsgroup. >i >> I am wondering if we canoJ >> set  up a new company can buy OpenVMS from Compaq. So we do not need to >> worry about too much. >>  4 >> Will it cost 2 billions? Not sure if is feasible. >o@ >If that is the price, then the question is whether every active= >participant in this newsgroup will provide 1 million dollarsr6 >for the cause.  Will you take care of organizing it ?  M I'll put up $1M if every other participant in this newsgroup does so as well.o --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM              J   "And of course, I'm a genius, so people are naturally drawn to my fiery I   intellect.  Their admiration overwhelms their envy!" -- Calvin & Hobbes.   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2002.136 ************************