1 INFO-VAX	Mon, 11 Mar 2002	Volume 2002 : Issue 137       Contents: "High End" = High Risk Backup/Journal question... Re: Backup/Journal question...2 Re: best/most flexible preserve VMS files onto CD? Re: Itanium troubles News Alert  (OTC BB:AIRP.OB) Re: SMG  Users being randomly logged out # Re: Users being randomly logged out # Re: Users being randomly logged out # Re: Users being randomly logged out 8 Re: Viability of a Commercial ISO-9960 formatter for VMS8 Re: Viability of a Commercial ISO-9960 formatter for VMS8 Re: Viability of a Commercial ISO-9960 formatter for VMS8 Re: Viability of a Commercial ISO-9960 formatter for VMS8 Re: Viability of a Commercial ISO-9960 formatter for VMS8 Re: Viability of a Commercial ISO-9960 formatter for VMS Re: Where can I find LSE ? Re: Where can I find LSE ?, Re: Why not we guys buy OpenVMS from Compaq?, Re: Why not we guys buy OpenVMS from Compaq?, Re: Why not we guys buy OpenVMS from Compaq?, Re: Why not we guys buy OpenVMS from Compaq?, Re: Why not we guys buy OpenVMS from Compaq?, Re: Why not we guys buy OpenVMS from Compaq?, Re: Why not we guys buy OpenVMS from Compaq?, Re: Why not we guys buy OpenVMS from Compaq?, Re: Why not we guys buy OpenVMS from Compaq?, Re: Why not we guys buy OpenVMS from Compaq?, Re: Why not we guys buy OpenVMS from Compaq?, Re: Why not we guys buy OpenVMS from Compaq?, Re: Why not we guys buy OpenVMS from Compaq?, Re: Why not we guys buy OpenVMS from Compaq?  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 00:15:25 GMT 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>  Subject: "High End" = High Risk & Message-ID: <3C8BF887.518BC62@fsi.net>  H This seems increasingly appropos in light of current VMS-related events.  F I've posted (and been challenged for posting) my reasoning on why "lowE volume, high margin" is a serious risk as opposed to the alternative. H The local newspaper ran an article that seems to underscore my reasoningH and my concerns. How this same thinking can be applied to VMS is left as an exercise for the reader.    -----    More bad news for Andersen   From Daily Herald news services  Posted on March 08, 2002    B Arthur Andersen LLP lost its third major auditing client in a weekA Thursday as Delta Air Lines Inc., the third-largest U.S. airline,  dropped it after 53 years.  B Mortgage purchaser Freddie Mac and drugmaker Merck & Co. also have replaced Andersen.  H "Any one of these client losses is bad news," said Arthur Bowman, editorH of Bowman's Accounting Report. "When you add them together it's horrific news."  G Andersen, Enron Corp.'s auditor for more than a decade, may not survive E client losses, employee defections and Enron-related legal-settlement B costs that may total more than $750 million, lawyers, analysts andD accountants have said. The government may charge the accounting firmG with obstruction of justice for shredding Enron documents, lawyers have  said.   H Andersen now has lost 34 clients since the start of the year, by far the< largest number of any top U.S. accounting firm, according to@ Auditor-Trak, a unit of Strafford Publications that monitors the auditing business.  E The client defections represent 47 percent of the total number of all 8 U.S. auditor changes among the Big Five firms this year.  H Delta Chief Financial Officer Michele Burns, who Delta had said would beG key in making the auditor decision, is a former Andersen partner. Delta $ didn't give a reason for the switch.  G Delta paid Andersen $1.92 million in auditing fees and $3.97 million in 4 other fees in 2000, according to regulatory filings.  H Chicago-based Andersen has about 2,400 audit clients, 4,700 partners andE 85,000 employees worldwide and had revenue last year of $9.3 billion. 7 It's the smallest of the five largest accounting firms.   B Patrick Dorton, an Andersen spokesman, said Andersen has more thanD 100,000 clients and defections so far have been "a tiny fraction" of that.   H Andersen has fought hard to restore its image. The firm early last monthF appointed former U.S. Federal Reserve Chairman Paul Volcker to lead an overhaul of its procedures.   D But the loss of Delta and Merck could snowball, said Richard Ossoff, publisher of Auditor-Trak.  A "Merck and Delta combined are not just companies. They are highly @ regarded for the quality of their financial management and theirF decisions to abandon Andersen carry disproportionate weight that bodes ill for the firm."  ) * Bloomberg News and Reuters contributed.    -----   A IMHO, should VMS ever (begin to) lose its biggest, most lucrative , customers, a similar result can be expected.  G *THAT* is a big part of what "affordable" is all about; that is, that's E what's "in it for OpenVMS". Survivability in the face of key customer F defections. Lose a customer with three or four Alpha nodes, and nobody: cares. Lose a customer the size of the DoD, and then what?  D If M$ never darkened the DoD's door again, I doubt anyone in Redmond would even notice.   --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  + Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 18:55:36 -0300 (BRT)  From: valdemir-@uol.com.br# Subject: Backup/Journal question... 4 Message-ID: <200203102155.SAA23311@wilde.uol.com.br>  8 Im my new job I=B4m using Backup/list/journal to restore> many files from tapes. Is there any way (using system services= or lexicals) to access data stored in .bjl files ? I=B4d like = create a procedure or program to access information inside=20  these files (.bjl files).  Thanks in advance...   ------------------------------    Date: 10 Mar 2002 16:35:27 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) ' Subject: Re: Backup/Journal question... 3 Message-ID: <+xrWB6dRrexL@eisner.encompasserve.org>   Q In article <200203102155.SAA23311@wilde.uol.com.br>, valdemir-@uol.com.br writes: : > Im my new job I=B4m using Backup/list/journal to restore@ > many files from tapes. Is there any way (using system services? > or lexicals) to access data stored in .bjl files ? I=B4d like ? > create a procedure or program to access information inside=20  > these files (.bjl files).   > SYS$QIO[W] is the service to use, but then you need to do some> programming.   Unlike many VMS data formats the .BJL format is> trivial, but it is not oriented in records that RMS can handle< because it is designed to be read both forward and backward.   ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 23:51:32 GMT 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> ; Subject: Re: best/most flexible preserve VMS files onto CD? ' Message-ID: <3C8BF377.C6E20D4A@fsi.net>    Glenn Everhart wrote:  > F > I don't much want to investigate the RMS attrributes issue just yet.J > However I have taken sigtapes, used ZIP to save .obj files in zip formatJ > with -V .zip files, then made a big ZIP file of the whole volume withoutH > -V, unzipped to disk, and used mkisofs to make an ISO9660 master. ThisH > master was made using long filenames (the ISO9660 level 3 ones), and I< > turned Rock Ridge on also. I don't recall if I did Joliet.J > Anyway, the resulting CD read just fine in VMS, with the long filenames,M > and read with long filenames on Linux, unix, and Windows (various flavors).  > < > I have no idea if MSDOS would read it; nor do I much care. > R > I would maintain that for many purposes such a volume is a sensible distributionM > format. All the files act as stream files, but VMS is not unhappy with this  > on the whole.  > S > You do lose the peculiarities of VMS file formats and the features those buy you, - > but for many purposes these are not missed.  > M > That this can be done now, with available free tools, diminishes the appeal O > of special tools to dual master or to encode RMS attributes. As RMS is likely O > to evolve in the direction of accepting stream formats even more readily than Q > now, I doubt there is need to go otherwise. Someone who needs to store VMS ISAM J > files and the like can just use a VMS filestructure like ODS2 or ODS5 onT > CD or DVD. For everyone else, the long filename support already well understood by > VMS ISO9660 is pretty decent.   B Yes, I generally advocate limiting ISO-9660 to .ZIPs and Stream_LF files.  E It just seems that the question of RMS on ISO-9660 comes up so often, B there must be a use for it that many of us haven't thought of yet.   --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  + Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 05:00:51 +0000 (UTC) 7 From: dsiebert@excisethis.khamsin.net (Douglas Siebert)  Subject: Re: Itanium troubles * Message-ID: <a6hdm3$44$1@sword.avalon.net>  * nmm1@cus.cam.ac.uk (Nick Maclaren) writes:  D >All rumours are that Intel will try and salvage the name by callingD >the McKinley the Itanium Plus (or something), which is a bit risky,@ >but I doubt that anyone below the top 3-4 people dare suggest aB >name change on the grounds of avoiding contamination.  After all,D >the official line is that it didn't sink, but was merely retargeted >as a development chip.     D Salvage?  From what?  Oh, you mean us few thousand nuts who actuallyC know enough about it to have heard of it and know it was a failure? B I don't think the name is tarnished in any way that justifies themE changing it, after they've invested a lot of money towards building a D brand.  Changing the name won't fool anyone in comp.arch, and peopleB who will sign off on major purchases of McKinley (and future) IA64D hardware probably don't even realize that systems have been shippingD since last May.  They will think the launch is this May (or wheneverG McKinley ships) because that's when the sales reps at HP and everywhere G else will quit showing IA64 in roadmaps of the future and start showing D them in glossy brochures that tout its virtues versus what they were selling you in March 2002.  F I wouldn't be terribly surprised if we're on Itanium x at some time in; the future when Intel is selling the Pentium y where x > y.    --H Douglas Siebert                          dsiebert@excisethis.khamsin.net  J A good friend will help you move, a true friend will help you move a body.   ------------------------------    Date: 11 Mar 2002 01:55:38 -0000* From: "Mag Net News" <MAG@lb.bcentral.com>% Subject: News Alert  (OTC BB:AIRP.OB) ( Message-ID: <1015811738.99005.qmail@ech>  * LITTLE KNOWN COMPANY ABOUT TO TAKE OFF!=20            =20) Air Packaging Technologies Inc Financials        FINANCIALS=20 # 52 Week Hi: $1.905 (06/14/2001) =20 " 52 Week Low: $0.42 (2/13/2002) =20 Market Cap: $6 Million =20 Shares Out: 12.094 =20$ Current Price: $0.54 (2/27/2002) =20 Volume: 14,500 (2/27/2002)  "               CORPORATE PROFILE=200 Air Packaging Technologies Inc. (OTCBB: AIRP)=20  J Air Packaging Technologies manufactures a revolutionary new patented prot=	 ective=20 F packaging which provides unequaled protection for fragile products.=20  J AIRP has now "merged" its unique technology with the marketing expertise = and=20J worldwide reach of 3M, one of the world's most highly respected companies= , by=20 J entering into two agreements granting 3M exclusive worldwide marketing ri=
 ghts in=201 the consumer and industrial packaging markets.=20   J 3M's Stationery Products Division (SPD) which sells Scotch Brand=99 tape = and=20J Post-Its=99 sells AIRP's products under the name 3M Inflata-Pak=99 Air Cu= shion=20J Packaging to retail consumers at stores throughout the world as an altern= ative=20 to peanuts and bubble wrap.=20  J 3M's Packaging Systems Division (PSD) sells AIRP's industrial packaging p=
 roducts=207 worldwide under the name 3M=99 Air Cushion Packaging=20  =20   $ WALL STREET JOURNAL FEATURE STORY=20  0 Air Packaging Technologies Inc. (OTCBB: AIRP)=20  J 3M Inflata-Pak was recently awarded a 2001 Good Housekeeping Good Buy Awa=
 rd in a=20J presentation featured on ABC's Good Morning America show. In its press re= lease=20L announcing the award, 3M's representative stated that the retail mailing=20=  J supplies market was growing at a double digit rate and was "pleased that = the=20J Good Housekeeping Institute has acknowledged Inflata-Pak air cushion pack= aging=20L as an important new product in this category. It gives people a reliable=20=  2 alternative when packaging items for shipping".=20  J Each year, the Good Housekeeping Institute honors a special selection of = new=20J products with its Good Buy Award for innovative problem-solving and high-= level=20 performance.=20   =20( WALL STREET JOURNAL FRONT PAGE  STORY=20  C The Bubble Economy: Packaging Firm Faces Fight in Field It Began=20 A By Michael McCarthy Staff Reporter of The Wall Street Journal.=20   
 Excerpt=20J "Four decades into owning the field it created, Bubble Wrap finds itself = in=20 J quite a fight. Minnesota Mining & Manufacturing Co., the conglomerate kno=	 wn for=20 J Scotch tape and Post-it Notes, just began marketing Inflata-Pak, a little=  blow=20J up package that comes with a straw (think beach ball) to protect watches,= =20 J perfume bottles and other delicate items during shipping. "Wow! No more M= essy=20 * Peanuts or Bubble Wrap," the box brags.=20  J Inflata-Pak is made for 3M by Air Packaging Technologies Inc., of Valenci= a,=20 J Calif., which has been running its own drop tests with its own accelerome= ter.=20 J The California company, whose product is also sold under the name Air Box=	 , says=20 K its analysis shows its inflatable air-cushion packaging is superior for=20=   G protecting delicate goods. "Bubble Wrap is a not a particularly good=20 K protective-wrap if you're sending fragile items," says Donald Ochacher,=20=    president of Air Packaging."=20  3M SPD Web Site=20  J 3M's Packaging Systems Division has introduced the Company's products und=	 er the=20 J name 3M=99 Air Cushion Packaging in January 2002. The extensive advertisi=	 ng and=20 J public relations campaign will be directed to companies seeking total sol=	 utions=20  for their packaging needs=20  L 3M intends to focus early in the campaign on the Semiconductor market to=20=  J capitalize on AIRP's previous success with Motorola, Photronics, LSI and =
 Dupont.=207 Rapid market penetration is expected in this market.=20   J Other markets to be targeted by 3M include Medical, Dental and Electronic= s=20 =20 G Donald M. Ochacher, President, Chairman and Chief Executive Officer.=20 ' Janet Maxey, Chief Financial Officer=20 - Elwood C. Trotter, Vice President of Sales=20 @ Garry Newman, Vice President of Manufacturing and Engineering=20 =20 J Donald M. Ochacher, CEO, Air Packaging Technologies Inc. - 800-424-7269 e= xt 12=20J Investor Relations: Aimee Boutcher, Boutcher & Boutcher - 973-239-2878=20=     Corporate Headquarters=20  25620 Rye Canyon Road=20
 Suite F=20 Valencia, CA 91355=20   =20K For visual demonstrations and technical specifications of its packaging=20=   7 solutions please visit AIRP online at www.airbox.com=20   . For HTML version  http://www.airbox.com/email/    L =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=20  Disclaimer:=20J MAG publishes reports providing informationon selected companies that MAG= =20 J believes has investment potential. MAG is not a registered investment adv=
 isor or=20J broker-dealer. This reportis provided as an information service only, and=  the=20 J statements and opinionsin this report should not be construed as an offer=  or=20J solicitation tobuy or sell any security. MAG accepts no liability for any=  loss=20J arisingfrom an investor's reliance on or use of this report. An investmen=
 t inThe=20J Above named company is considered to be highly speculative and shouldnot = be=20 J considered unless a person can afford a complete loss of investment.MAG h=
 as been=20H hired by a third party consultant, and is contracted toreceive a cash=20J advertising fee of $500-$5000 for the publication andcirculation of this =
 report.=20J Subsequently MAG may buy or sell shares ofthe stock of the above mentione= d=20J company in the open market. This reportcontains forward-looking statement= s,=20kJ which involve risks, and uncertaintiesthat may cause actual results to di= ffer=20vJ materially from those set forthin the forward-looking statements. For fur= ther=20sJ details concerning theserisks and uncertainties, see the SEC filings of t= he=20nJ above mentioned companyincluding the company's most recent annual and qua=	 rterly=20c reports.    G _______________________________________________________________________S Powered by List Buildere To unsubscribe follow the link: J http://lb.bcentral.com/ex/manage/subscriberprefs?customerid=3D11414&subid= =3D3A4C1B5B21A23BF9&msgnum=3D18r   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 19:40:43 -0500a% From: "John Vottero" <John@mvpsi.com>E Subject: Re: SMG/ Message-ID: <u8nv8d1gaarlda@news.supernews.com>y  L You are confusing a PC keyboard with a Digital/Compaq/VT keyboard.  The "F1"G key is not the same as the "PF1" key.  On a PC keyboard, PF1 is usuallyr3 mapped to the "Num Lock" key on the numeric keypad.a   SMG$K_TRM_PF1 IS 256 SMG$K_TRM_F1 IS 281a  J The original VT100 keyboards had 4 Programmable Function keys (PF1 - PF4).K These keys were the top four keys of the numeric keypad which is where moste) PC based VT emulation software maps them.   , "wing" <wingwong@witty.com> wrote in message7 news:873e96d6.0203091740.18e43a73@posting.google.com...p > Hi,r >CC > I am new to SMG and I am trying to use SMG to write an UI to pass- > message to a server process. >22 > I have read the openvms SMG$ manual and have try5 > smg$create_pasteboard, smg$create_virtual_keyboard,g8 > smg$create_virtual_display, smg$paste_virtual_display. >pG > However, when I use smg$read_string and try to read the function key1hG > to break the program.  I find the code returned by smg$read_string is  > 281 but SMG$K_TRM_PF1 is 256.t >a > Besides, I need to& > 1. check the tab to go to next field > 2. set field length  > 3. set field editability >k > Thanks in advance, >  > Wing   ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 22:32:29 GMT ) From: martin.hunt@inl.co.nz (Martin Hunt)o( Subject: Users being randomly logged out6 Message-ID: <3c8bdae4.8491029@news.wlg.netlink.net.nz>  B I have a problem where users on a VAX having their Telnet sessions? terminated. It appears to be a network problem, but working outMD whether it is a VAX problem (such as faulty network card), is not so0 easy. There are no hardware errors being logged.  @ I am trying to find out some information about the card (such asD speed, etc), but I can't find any command which will tell me this. I. am pretty sure that it is 10Mbps, half duplex.  @ I am running VMS V7.1, UCX 4.2 on a MicroVAX 3100-95. The VAX is7 connected to the network via an AUI to 10BaseT adapter.e  C Any hints of things to check, or any settings which can be changed,o would be appreciated.    ---o Martin Hunte Systems Administratore Independent Newspapers Limited
 Wellington New Zealand    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 18:00:24 -0500u- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>a, Subject: Re: Users being randomly logged out, Message-ID: <3C8BE57B.8FF7BF9D@videotron.ca>   Martin Hunt wrote: > D > I have a problem where users on a VAX having their Telnet sessions
 > terminated.h  L Didn't see any obvious logicals. However, have you looked at TCPIP> HELP SET SERV/LOG_OPTIONS ?   ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 23:58:12 GMT ) From: rob.buxton@wcc.govt.nz (Rob Buxton)l, Subject: Re: Users being randomly logged out2 Message-ID: <3c8bf05f.1734412353@news.wcc.govt.nz>  E On Sun, 10 Mar 2002 22:32:29 GMT, martin.hunt@inl.co.nz (Martin Hunt)h wrote:  C >I have a problem where users on a VAX having their Telnet sessionsc@ >terminated. It appears to be a network problem, but working outE >whether it is a VAX problem (such as faulty network card), is not soa1 >easy. There are no hardware errors being logged.a >tA >I am trying to find out some information about the card (such asSE >speed, etc), but I can't find any command which will tell me this. Ic/ >am pretty sure that it is 10Mbps, half duplex.   5 I don't know of any way of showing this from the OS. .E You can use LANCP to show counters etc. that will give you an idea of  error rates.F If the card itself was giving problems I would expect (or hope) to see errors in the error log.  9 Do all Telnet sessions get disconnected at the same time?e  A You might want to look at what Telnet Log Options are enabled andn+ seeing what is reported in the Operator.Logm  = I take it you don't have an idle process killer on the loose?    >"A >I am running VMS V7.1, UCX 4.2 on a MicroVAX 3100-95. The VAX isM8 >connected to the network via an AUI to 10BaseT adapter. >oD >Any hints of things to check, or any settings which can be changed, >would be appreciated. >D >--- >Martin Hunt >Systems Administrator >Independent Newspapers Limitedn >Wellington  >New Zealand   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 19:03:35 -0500 ' From: Howard S Shubs <howard@shubs.net>:, Subject: Re: Users being randomly logged out< Message-ID: <howard-293D52.19033510032002@enews.newsguy.com>  6 In article <3c8bdae4.8491029@news.wlg.netlink.net.nz>,+  martin.hunt@inl.co.nz (Martin Hunt) wrote:A  D > I have a problem where users on a VAX having their Telnet sessionsA > terminated. It appears to be a network problem, but working out F > whether it is a VAX problem (such as faulty network card), is not so2 > easy. There are no hardware errors being logged.  I Are -all- the users being terminated at the same time, or only some?  If -F they're -all- being cut off at the same time, I'd look at the network & card.  Otherwise, it's something else.   -- c Howard S ShubsD "Run in circles, scream and shout!"  "I hope you have good backups!"' Aren't there any networked SJFs around?o   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 15:07:22 -0500s2 From: rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger)A Subject: Re: Viability of a Commercial ISO-9960 formatter for VMStJ Message-ID: <rdeininger-1003021507220001@1cust88.tnt6.nashua.nh.da.uu.net>  ; In article <3C8B8E56.95BA33AA@fsi.net>, "David J. Dachtera"[ <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote:     >> TANSTAAFL.  >  >Translation, please...y    * There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch.   ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 23:48:09 GMTn1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>-A Subject: Re: Viability of a Commercial ISO-9960 formatter for VMSm' Message-ID: <3C8BF2BF.1857F514@fsi.net>n   Robert Deininger wrote:t > = > In article <3C8B8E56.95BA33AA@fsi.net>, "David J. Dachtera"D  > <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote: >  > >> TANSTAAFL.u > >n > >Translation, please...t > , > There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch.  ; Thanx. I'd seen that before, but didn't know what it meant.z   -- s David J. DachteraI dba DJE Systemsl http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/w   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 01:27:59 GMTR- From: "John E. Malmberg" <wb8tyw@qsl.network>eA Subject: Re: Viability of a Commercial ISO-9960 formatter for VMS * Message-ID: <3C8C0A0D.9000108@qsl.network>   David J. Dachtera wrote: > "John E. Malmberg" wrote:a >  >>David J. Dachtera wrote: >>D >>>Try to imagine if M$ tried to license its proprietary networking,H >>>TCP/IP, file sharing, print sharing, web browsing, etc. separately as
 >>>OVMS does.S >>>oF >>The last time I looked at a Microsoft Licensing statement, using theD >>file and print sharing to connect to a Microsoft Server required aK >>license from Microsoft.> You would have to show me. I've never seen that.i  B It is on those little pieces of paper known as the EULA (End User , Licensing Aggreements.  Read them carefully.  D http://www.microsoft.com/windows2000/server/howtobuy/pricing/faq.asp  / This details the file and print client options.o  @ >>> Suppose you needed a separate license for each element of M$J >>>Orifice, the interface to the e-mail transfer agent (Exchange) licensed, >>>separately from the user-agent (LookOut). > H > Again, you'd have to show me. All I've ever seen is you buy the server: > license (by buying the software distro.) and off you go.  H Not quite that simple if you want to be compliant with the terms of the 	 licenses.s  + http://www.microsoft.com/exchange/howtobuy/.  B Note that the client licenses needed for accessing file and print F services are not the same license as is needed to access the exchange  servers.  J >>>Suppose OLE were licensed separately from the OLE-capable applications. >>> ...ODBC... >>>sI >>SQL Server requires both a server license, and a client access license.g >>  I > *THERE'S* the piece you seemed to be missing earlier. You don't license:H > the individual services. You buy the server, period. *CLIENT* licenses > are another matter.u  E Excuse me?  What am I missing?  If you need to access the SQL server lF from a different system, a SQL server client access license is needed.  & http://www.microsoft.com/sql/howtobuy/  B The file and print licenses to not grant access to the SQL Server  database on a different system.r   > 3 >>  MS Access is also a separately licensed productn > I > Again, you'd have to show me. In all my distro.'s (V4.3, 97 and 2K), itn > comes with M$ Orifice.  I MS ACCESS is a standalone product.  It is bundled in to some of the high n@ end versions of Microsoft Office.  It is not a component of all H Microsoft Office distributions.  Or at least it was not the last time I  cared to look it up.  D Microsoft Office is a separate suite of products from the Operating J System and is purchased and licensed separately from the Operating system.  D I have not seen either Microsoft Office or Access available as free.  H >>If you write your own application, then you can use OLE and ODBC free.G >>But connecting your application to the SQL server back end requires a  >>client access license. t >> >   ^^^^^^        ^^^^^^ > *VERY* important distinction!h  F And that is an SQL server client access license, not a file and print  client access license.   > 
 >>TANSTAAFL. i   > Translation, please...  G Already provided by another post.  And frequently expressed by another - poster on this forum.-   > = >>In the PC world, you usually have to pay a license to put ab >>server product on a server.  >> TG > Again, you'd have to show me. Never seen that. We just buy the serverC= > distro., buy the client licenses in quantity and off we go.h  I The server distribution usually provides a license for a specific number 1G of servers  Usually one.  The distribution generally can not be put on h1 more servers with out purchases of more licenses.0  G The "select" program is a quantity discount on future purchases with a iA try before you buy trial program.  It is not a site wide license.h  ' >>Purchase another license to connect aaJ >>client up to that server product.  Sometimes you also need a license for >>the client product.  >  > Again, never seen that.e  ( But in your previous statement you said:  4 > buy the client licenses in quantity and off we go.  B So you obviously seem to know that the client licenses are needed  separate from the server.e  H But not all client licenses are interchangable, and there are two types 0 of client licenses, "per seat" and "per server".  E Per seat gives a specific client the right to access that particular  I service on an unlimited number of servers.  Note that this is a specific sH client, and not a potential client.  If you have 2000 clients that need C to access an SQL server at any time, then you need 2000 SQL server P= client access licenses.  This is not a concurent use license.e  A Per Server gives allows a specific number of clients to access a   specific service on a server.o  G So if you have a Windows client that is accessing an SQL Server by any GI means, an Exchange Server, and file and print services, than you need at GA least 3 client access licenses for the client.  Depending on the e> licensing model selected, you could need even more than three.  I >>It can be very confusing to keep the licensing straight with all of the J >>bundles.  And you have to be careful about finding software installed byF >>VARs, consultants, and other programmers that they did not realize a, >>separate license was needed for something.  > Software is always cheaper if you do not pay for the licenses.  C I suspect that more than one site has gotten sticker shock from an oE inventory of what they did not realize that they needed licenses for.r  G Read the EULAs carefully.  Of course many of the ones that I have seen oI do not specifically mention what version of the product they are for, if  H they even mention the product name, and I do not recall seeing any date.H So be sure to keep them filed with the correct product, if you get them I mixed up, it may be difficult to find out what you are actually licensed n for.   -Johnh wb8tyw@qsl.network Personal Opinion Onlyn   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 01:47:26 GMTh+ From: Jeff Campbell <jcampbell@ins-msi.com>eA Subject: Re: Viability of a Commercial ISO-9960 formatter for VMSr+ Message-ID: <3C8C033B.8B242A7A@ins-msi.com>b   "David J. Dachtera" wrote: >  > Larry Kilgallen wrote: > >o_ > > In article <3C8988E3.5D892030@fsi.net>, "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> writes:a > > > Larry Kilgallen wrote: > >aH > > >> If you want a commercial product, the question is the same as for3 > > >> porting SCAN to Alpha -- is there a market ?n > > >p > > > Ask yourself:t > > >dA > > > o How often does this question come up here in comp.os.vms?c > > >aC > > > o How many entries on this topic are there in Ask the Wizard?s > > >f# > > > Have you any other questions?= > > 7 > > Discussion in comp.os.vms does not indicate market,y > H > Well, actually yes it does. Be that as it may (and it certainly is)... > 
 > > but as ane< > > experiment we can take a survey to determine the market. > >oG > > I would normally resist the urge to start surveys in the newsgroup,MB > > but in this case I predict there will be few enough meaningful+ > > answers that no burden will be imposed:s > >h9 > >         1. What is the maximum _you_ would be willingp< > >            to pay for a single concurrent user license ? > >a< > >         2. What is the maximum number of concurrent user: > >            license for which _you_ would be willing to< > >            pay if the price were only 10% of the above ? > >CB > > Please refrain from answering if the answer to either question > > is zero. > I > Sorry, but the answer to both *MUST* be zero ($0) over and above the OSeG > base license fee. As repeated queries would seem to indicate, this iso5 > expected of the OS without any additional licenses.d >r   Not possible. 8-)a  D Show me the native commands to burn a CD on 9X. Or NT. Or 2k. Or XP.  F The reason CD Creator, Gear, CDRWIN, and others, exist is that the ISOG image is one piece of the problem. The other is the hardware interface./  H Mount a disk on a VMS or M$ system and you or your application can writeD to it with documented system calls. No such calls exist for CDR--RW. EachF manufacturer use a slightly different way. Look at the changing "drive< qualification" lists at the CD ISO image creators web sites.  H Anything that would enable VMS to natively create CDs would be a layeredF product. And it might still need a modified or specialized SCSI driver to operate properly.  hB > See, part of VMS's problem is viewing each little bit of common,E > expected functionality as a separate profit center. Examples: Until0I > recently, UCX (TCP/IP Svcs) DCPS and such have been treated as separate=G > profit centers. Some of these items are now included in the base OVMSaJ > license. I am of the opinion (though I am, perhaps, the only one who mayH > be of such mind) that this has contributed to a slowing in the declineG > of VMS as opposed to what it might have been had this not happened. I 9 > realize this would be difficult or impossible to prove.t > I > However, so long as this paradigm dominates, VMS will continue down its A > present course. As soon as a more realistic paradigm - one more I > congruent with the current marketplace - emerges and begins to make its ; > effects known, we'll start to see hints of a turn-around.r > C > Try to imagine if M$ tried to license its proprietary networking,nG > TCP/IP, file sharing, print sharing, web browsing, etc. separately asnI > OVMS does. Suppose you needed a separate license for each element of M$ I > Orifice, the interface to the e-mail transfer agent (Exchange) licensedSE > separately from the user-agent (LookOut). Suppose OLE were licensed.: > separately from the OLE-capable applications. ...ODBC... >  > Starting to get the picture? > I > We've as yet heard no authoritative answer (feel free to correct me) as G > to whether VMS/RMS will honor RMS metadata in ISO-9660 files systems.nD > Without this piece, third-party support for writing it is useless. >  > -- > David J. Dachtera. > dba DJE Systemsn > http://www.djesys.com/ > * > Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page:! > http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   
 Jeff Campbell_ n8wxs@arrl.net   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 01:44:09 GMTu1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>oA Subject: Re: Viability of a Commercial ISO-9960 formatter for VMSl' Message-ID: <3C8C0D54.5FEA9580@fsi.net>g   Jeff Campbell wrote: >  > "David J. Dachtera" wrote: > >3 > > Larry Kilgallen wrote: > > > a > > > In article <3C8988E3.5D892030@fsi.net>, "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> writes:c > > > > Larry Kilgallen wrote: > > >$J > > > >> If you want a commercial product, the question is the same as for5 > > > >> porting SCAN to Alpha -- is there a market ?a > > > >  > > > > Ask yourself:$ > > > >nC > > > > o How often does this question come up here in comp.os.vms?  > > > >rE > > > > o How many entries on this topic are there in Ask the Wizard?  > > > >I% > > > > Have you any other questions?e > > >d9 > > > Discussion in comp.os.vms does not indicate market,  > >sJ > > Well, actually yes it does. Be that as it may (and it certainly is)... > >0 > > > but as an > > > > experiment we can take a survey to determine the market. > > >lI > > > I would normally resist the urge to start surveys in the newsgroup,aD > > > but in this case I predict there will be few enough meaningful- > > > answers that no burden will be imposed:o > > >u; > > >         1. What is the maximum _you_ would be willing,> > > >            to pay for a single concurrent user license ? > > >y> > > >         2. What is the maximum number of concurrent user< > > >            license for which _you_ would be willing to> > > >            pay if the price were only 10% of the above ? > > >.D > > > Please refrain from answering if the answer to either question > > > is zero. > >TK > > Sorry, but the answer to both *MUST* be zero ($0) over and above the OSgI > > base license fee. As repeated queries would seem to indicate, this is 7 > > expected of the OS without any additional licenses.  > >- >  > Not possible. 8-)- > F > Show me the native commands to burn a CD on 9X. Or NT. Or 2k. Or XP. > H > The reason CD Creator, Gear, CDRWIN, and others, exist is that the ISOI > image is one piece of the problem. The other is the hardware interface.w  ; Well, I intended to post this as a wish list item anyway...h  G What I had in mind was some extension to existing OVMS commands as wellP6 as the integration of "LD" with the base OVMS product:  % New Command qualifier(s), keyword(s):   C $ CREATE/CONTAINER[/[NO]ERASE] filespec/SIZE=nnnnn[/[NO]CONTIGUOUS]r (Equiv. to LD CREATE)s  - $ SET CONTAINER/CONNECT[={LD|VD}Au:] filespec  (Equiv. to LD CONNECT)  > $ INITIALIZE ddcu[:] volume_label/MEDIA_FORMAT=ISO9660[={1|3}]  7 $ MOUNT/MEDIA_FORMAT=ISO9660[={1|3}] ddcu: volume_labelc   $ SHOW CONTAINERS[/ALL]o (Equiv. to LD SHOW[/ALL])w  % $ SET CONTAINER/DISCONNECT={LD|VD}Au:( (Equiv. to LD DISCONNECT))  1 $ CREATE/CDROM=ddcu:[/SPEED=x] container_filespecn' (Equiv. to CDRECORD plus basic options)s   Plus:mH New OS functionality to provide RMS support for ISO9660 when MOUNTing anE ISO9660 writable volume (typically, a logical/virtual disk container,uE but could also be a hard disc). Similar to "mount -t iso9660" and thea) underlying support services in UN*X-land.    -- u David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systemsr http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/e   ------------------------------   Date: 10 Mar 2002 19:58:31 CDT= From: wayne@tachysoft.xxx.525246.killspam.00ce (Wayne Sewell)sA Subject: Re: Viability of a Commercial ISO-9960 formatter for VMSp. Message-ID: <89$kPGxYu$eb@tachxxsoftxxconsult>  [ In article <3C8BF2BF.1857F514@fsi.net>, "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> writes:  > Robert Deininger wrote:h >> o> >> In article <3C8B8E56.95BA33AA@fsi.net>, "David J. Dachtera"! >> <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote:  >>   >> >> TANSTAAFL. >> > >> >Translation, please... >>  - >> There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch.- > = > Thanx. I'd seen that before, but didn't know what it meant.d    ? Came from "The Moon is a Harsh Mistress" by Robert A. Heinlein.d     -- sO ===============================================================================8M Wayne Sewell, Tachyon Software Consulting  (281)812-0738  wayne@tachysoft.xxx : http://www.tachysoft.xxx/www/tachyon.html and wayne.html  K change .xxx to .com in addresses above, assuming you are not a spambot  :-) O =============================================================================== = Society Lady:  Are you familiar with the Great Wall of China?r5        Curly:  No, but I know a big fence in Chicago!-   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 02:28:14 GMT ) From: Charles McCutcheon <xxx@compaq.com>-# Subject: Re: Where can I find LSE ?s* Message-ID: <3C8C1713.5EB7D10A@compaq.com>  - EDS maintains DECset, which LSE is a part of.   J I'm surprised that I can't find it under the www.eds.com web page for more information...   Charlieo   ------------------------------    Date: 10 Mar 2002 22:11:51 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)3# Subject: Re: Where can I find LSE ?a3 Message-ID: <E1Al2blNjR2S@eisner.encompasserve.org>D  V In article <3C8C1713.5EB7D10A@compaq.com>, Charles McCutcheon <xxx@compaq.com> writes:/ > EDS maintains DECset, which LSE is a part of.e > L > I'm surprised that I can't find it under the www.eds.com web page for more > information...  C Compaq is the one that sells it, as part of DECset (the new DECset,i% not the PDP-11 typesetting software).-   ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 19:34:05 GMTt* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>5 Subject: Re: Why not we guys buy OpenVMS from Compaq?TB Message-ID: <NyOi8.175517$pN4.9513612@bin8.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>  : "Larry Kilgallen" <Kilgallen@SpamCop.net> wrote in message- news:CEMopQDaXRVy@eisner.encompasserve.org...D@ > In article <DnKi8.66806$xG.28928@news2.bloor.is>, "john smith"$ <Xudongzong.0974@rogers.com> writes:7 > > Looks like have a lot concerns with OpenVMS future.- >  > Only in this newsgroup.7  H Could you post the details of the customer poll behind your statement soH that we can all breathe a sigh of relief (well, at least a partial sigh,H knowing that customer defection won't give the morons at the Compaq helm? more excuse to screw up VMS than they already think they have)?r   - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 15:07:33 -0500e- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> 5 Subject: Re: Why not we guys buy OpenVMS from Compaq? , Message-ID: <3C8BBD03.AEEF2C10@videotron.ca>   Didier Morandi wrote:tQ > 1. VMS engineering  has never worked so well since ages (well, you guys from ZKr > understand, right?)n  & But iot was a lot moe popular before.   N > 2. Alpha systems are still being sold by HPAQ until end 2004 (see slide 4 in[ > http://www.openvms.compaq.com/openvms/roadmap/openvms_roadmaps_files/OPENVMS_ROADMAPS.PPTt  I We don't know that. What Marcello says has no corporate weight and can be$M overriden by Winkler/Capellas. (witness what happened to Alpha). Furthermore,>H Carly has stated that on april 1,  HP will reveal to customers the exactM product roadmap for the next 3 years. Until this is done, there is absolutelyrI no way to know what HP's intentions with VMS are. And product roadmaps doi change along the way too.   K > 3. The porting of VMS to IA64 is currently being done and a first boot ise > expected in july 2002c  N Tru64's porting to IA64 was announced a long long time ago. (when Digital soldH the FAB to Intel). But Tru64 is now dead and won't be ported.  There areH sufficient examples of broken commitments that force one to admit that a( commitment to any product can be broken.  P > 4. COMPAQ has a unbreakable agreement with the DOD to continue VMS support for > ten years   I That company will continue to support the use of VMS at the DOD does verytE little to others and does not automatically mean that VMS will remainh( available for purchase by new customers.    : > 5. VMS brings LOTS of $$$ to COMPAQ and tomorrow to HPAQ  M They killed Alpha, calculating that they would retain the customers who wouldSN buy IA64 machines and spend just as much money. **If** they calculate that VMSK customers would migrate to NT or HP-UX, then they could justify cutting theo, spending on VMS and be even more profitable.  M It doesn't matter if this would actually work or not. What matters is whetherhK some Winkler type inside the organisation can produce some study that showsfN that it can be done and would save HP lots of money, at which point they would7 accept the study at face value and declare VMS mature. s  R > I do not see,... noone sees why HPAQ would kill the golden eggs goose (as we say > in french)  N HP will kill products that are not on its long term stretegic goals. Carly hasL been quite clear about that. *IF* they do decide to kill VMS, then the other+ decision is how and when this will be made.d  N But the fact that Carly has talked about every Compaq product EXCEPT VMS makesD one wonder. Do you find it normal that they would so carefully avoid mentioning VMS ?   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 15:19:38 -0500e- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>d5 Subject: Re: Why not we guys buy OpenVMS from Compaq?m, Message-ID: <3C8BBFD7.943B9BB9@videotron.ca>   > > Only in this newsgroup.e    M The people in this newsgroup care about the uncertain future of VMS. Thos whoW> have already witten off VMS as a dead OS aren't here anymore.   H Compaq did spurt its 411,000 VMS licences. But it didn't qualify them as active or inactive.r  M Was this 411,000 number reached in the late 1990s and then VMS went on a slowe decline for a decade ?  L More importantly, when sites who still have some VMS on site decide to spendJ for a new application, do they build it on VMS or on Sun/NT/Linux ? If theM remaining customers have stable applications and grow their IT infrastructurevM with Sun/HP/NT, this means that there would be little spending on VMS for new J apps, which means that ISVs would not be very attracted to porting to VMS.    L In the past, VMS had a huge performance advantage over Tandem. But when bothN are slowed down to IA64, will VMS really have such differences in capabilities: to warrant having VMS and Tandem in the HP product suite ?   ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 20:35:37 GMTs" From: bugs@pu.net (Mark Hittinger)5 Subject: Re: Why not we guys buy OpenVMS from Compaq?vC Message-ID: <tsPi8.335952$Aw2.27154510@bin7.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>e  / JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> writes: N >The people in this newsgroup care about the uncertain future of VMS. Thos who? >have already witten off VMS as a dead OS aren't here anymore. l  
 Not everyone.m  N Assuming HWP is able to close their acquisition of CPQ then HWP should releaseL VMS into the open-source world.  Many of us have used vaxen now and cisc-vax emulators are nearly ready.c  @ Thats the only way (imho) that VMS can be considered "not dead".   Laterd   Mark Hittinger bugs@pu.nete   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 21:40:44 +0100t- From: Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@free.fr> 5 Subject: Re: Why not we guys buy OpenVMS from Compaq?f' Message-ID: <3C8BC4CC.E055B902@free.fr>a   "David J. Dachtera" wrote: > 
 > Hi, Didier,  > E > I'll apologize up front for the tone of this. It's very bad. I justiC > couldn't hold it in, though. Please don't hold that against me...t ../..o   don't worry, Dave :-)n   D.   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 21:43:18 +0100d- From: Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@free.fr>e5 Subject: Re: Why not we guys buy OpenVMS from Compaq?v' Message-ID: <3C8BC566.1A677793@free.fr>   G I have another solution. let's ask OpenVMS Eng. to purchase themselves.o   D. (NO kidding)   Tom Linden wrote:e > C > > If that is the price, then the question is whether every activeh@ > > participant in this newsgroup will provide 1 million dollars9 > > for the cause.  Will you take care of organizing it ?  > >e > 2 > I will organize it, just send the money here :-)   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 16:24:29 -0500m- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>i5 Subject: Re: Why not we guys buy OpenVMS from Compaq? , Message-ID: <3C8BCF06.E3EC6F43@videotron.ca>   Didier Morandi wrote:v > I > I have another solution. let's ask OpenVMS Eng. to purchase themselves.   E There are too many issues related to selling VMS as a viable product.s  F HP will certaintly prefer to kill VMS in a way that it will retain theN customers who would migrate to a core HP products with bright futures. SellingM VMS as a viable product means that HP might lose the customers and worse, the F buyer of VMS may become a fierce competitor. It costs less to retain a customer than to acquire one.d  H During the Digital and Compaq era, the owner was able to ensure that VMSJ didn't compete against the wintel business. And it was also able to ensureN that VMS resulted in profitable hardware sales of prorietarty hardware (alpha) as well as support contracts.   M If HP is to sell VMS as a viable product, it would probably require some formuM of alliance to prevent the VMS engineers from porting VMS to Power and having L the large customers buy VMS "wildfires" and support from IBM. If the port toL IA64 completes and VMS becomes independant, it might get Dell to build a fewJ "wildfire" style machines to run VMS on at lower cost than HP could offer.    L Another very important issue to consider: the remaining VMS customer base isI made of of blue chip companies who require 7/24 high quality software andSD support. Will those customers feel comfortable having their critical1 infrastructure shifted to a small ".com" outfit ?t  H Having VMS independant would be great because it would allow VMS all theM freedom it needs to compete against NT, Unix at the low, medium and high end.sH However, job 1 would be to preserve the remaining revenu stream from theX remaining high end customers, and that requires a solid company with worldwide presence.   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 23:14:01 +0100t' From: Brass Christof <welcome@spam.not>.5 Subject: Re: Why not we guys buy OpenVMS from Compaq? ( Message-ID: <3C8BDAA9.95C1A80C@spam.not>   JF Mezei wrote:a    N > Another very important issue to consider: the remaining VMS customer base isK > made of of blue chip companies who require 7/24 high quality software andSF > support. Will those customers feel comfortable having their critical3 > infrastructure shifted to a small ".com" outfit ?i > J > Having VMS independant would be great because it would allow VMS all theO > freedom it needs to compete against NT, Unix at the low, medium and high end.mJ > However, job 1 would be to preserve the remaining revenu stream from theZ > remaining high end customers, and that requires a solid company with worldwide presence.  @ That's the least problem. As soon as VMS is "free" there will beF companies like IBM or EDS that operate worldwide and are eager to do a( good job in supporting a decent product.   -- d6 moc dot slupofni at ssarb - please revert the sequence   ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 23:53:04 GMTt1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> 5 Subject: Re: Why not we guys buy OpenVMS from Compaq?r' Message-ID: <3C8BF3D6.8A8EF213@fsi.net>i   system@SendSpamHere.ORG wrote: > e > In article <CEMopQDaXRVy@eisner.encompasserve.org>, Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) writes:uf > >In article <DnKi8.66806$xG.28928@news2.bloor.is>, "john smith" <Xudongzong.0974@rogers.com> writes:8 > >> Looks like have a lot concerns with OpenVMS future. > >u > >Only in this newsgroup. > >  > >> I am wondering if we can L > >> set  up a new company can buy OpenVMS from Compaq. So we do not need to > >> worry about too much. > >>6 > >> Will it cost 2 billions? Not sure if is feasible. > > B > >If that is the price, then the question is whether every active? > >participant in this newsgroup will provide 1 million dollarsD8 > >for the cause.  Will you take care of organizing it ? > O > I'll put up $1M if every other participant in this newsgroup does so as well.e   Um, Bri?  G Pardon my asking in this way, but if you've got a megabuck, WTF are you2 doing here?u   --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systemsi http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/A   ------------------------------    Date: 10 Mar 2002 18:50:01 -0800( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)5 Subject: Re: Why not we guys buy OpenVMS from Compaq?d= Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0203101850.4f5d52fc@posting.google.com>i  a JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message news:<3C8BCF06.E3EC6F43@videotron.ca>...  > Didier Morandi wrote:p > > K > > I have another solution. let's ask OpenVMS Eng. to purchase themselves.o > G > There are too many issues related to selling VMS as a viable product.  > H > HP will certaintly prefer to kill VMS in a way that it will retain theP > customers who would migrate to a core HP products with bright futures. SellingO > VMS as a viable product means that HP might lose the customers and worse, theiH > buyer of VMS may become a fierce competitor. It costs less to retain a > customer than to acquire one.  > J > During the Digital and Compaq era, the owner was able to ensure that VMSL > didn't compete against the wintel business. And it was also able to ensureP > that VMS resulted in profitable hardware sales of prorietarty hardware (alpha) > as well as support contracts.  > O > If HP is to sell VMS as a viable product, it would probably require some form.O > of alliance to prevent the VMS engineers from porting VMS to Power and havinghN > the large customers buy VMS "wildfires" and support from IBM. If the port toN > IA64 completes and VMS becomes independant, it might get Dell to build a fewL > "wildfire" style machines to run VMS on at lower cost than HP could offer. >  > N > Another very important issue to consider: the remaining VMS customer base isK > made of of blue chip companies who require 7/24 high quality software and F > support. Will those customers feel comfortable having their critical3 > infrastructure shifted to a small ".com" outfit ?C > J > Having VMS independant would be great because it would allow VMS all theO > freedom it needs to compete against NT, Unix at the low, medium and high end.tJ > However, job 1 would be to preserve the remaining revenu stream from theZ > remaining high end customers, and that requires a solid company with worldwide presence.  C but if they sell it, at least they could still sell us printers andRC maybe some pc "clients" along the way, otherwise they will lose all 8 vms customers business!  How is the FreeVMS port coming?   ------------------------------    Date: 10 Mar 2002 18:47:08 -0800( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)5 Subject: Re: Why not we guys buy OpenVMS from Compaq? < Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0203101847.95315cc@posting.google.com>  a JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message news:<3C8BBD03.AEEF2C10@videotron.ca>...C > Didier Morandi wrote:sS > > 1. VMS engineering  has never worked so well since ages (well, you guys from ZKn > > understand, right?)  > ( > But iot was a lot moe popular before.  > P > > 2. Alpha systems are still being sold by HPAQ until end 2004 (see slide 4 in] > > http://www.openvms.compaq.com/openvms/roadmap/openvms_roadmaps_files/OPENVMS_ROADMAPS.PPT. > K > We don't know that. What Marcello says has no corporate weight and can beeO > overriden by Winkler/Capellas. (witness what happened to Alpha). Furthermore,@J > Carly has stated that on april 1,  HP will reveal to customers the exactO > product roadmap for the next 3 years. Until this is done, there is absolutelyxK > no way to know what HP's intentions with VMS are. And product roadmaps doy > change along the way too.  > M > > 3. The porting of VMS to IA64 is currently being done and a first boot is. > > expected in july 2002a > P > Tru64's porting to IA64 was announced a long long time ago. (when Digital soldJ > the FAB to Intel). But Tru64 is now dead and won't be ported.  There areJ > sufficient examples of broken commitments that force one to admit that a* > commitment to any product can be broken. > R > > 4. COMPAQ has a unbreakable agreement with the DOD to continue VMS support for
 > > ten yearso > K > That company will continue to support the use of VMS at the DOD does verywG > little to others and does not automatically mean that VMS will remain * > available for purchase by new customers. >  > < > > 5. VMS brings LOTS of $$$ to COMPAQ and tomorrow to HPAQ > O > They killed Alpha, calculating that they would retain the customers who wouldNP > buy IA64 machines and spend just as much money. **If** they calculate that VMSM > customers would migrate to NT or HP-UX, then they could justify cutting thej. > spending on VMS and be even more profitable. >   K no vms customer would ever port to trash nt or unix ... like I keep saying,'E if we get screwed, after many years of alpha vms, we will go to linuxeB on IBM or Sun (gag!) or probably someone else by then, but not HP!E No more HP anything ... not even a single laser printer!  We will buya Canon!   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 23:10:06 -0500m- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>@5 Subject: Re: Why not we guys buy OpenVMS from Compaq?:+ Message-ID: <3C8C2E16.80320C1@videotron.ca>    Bob Ceculski wrote:e  hE > but if they sell it, at least they could still sell us printers andoE > maybe some pc "clients" along the way, otherwise they will lose alls: > vms customers business!  How is the FreeVMS port coming?  L When Compaq announce the murder of Alpha, it visited its important customersL on the same day.  Compaq is very aware that customers will drop Compaq/HP ifJ they kill VMS. My feeling is that they have learned this and implemented a; strategy on June 25 of handholding the customers who count.C  L Carly has already said that the product roadmaps will be unveiled on April 1J or 2 on a face to face basis with customers instead of a big announcement.  M What this tells me is that Compaq is ready to visit customers, give them some ; bad news and then sweeten the pot with irresistible offers.t  N For instance, when HP visits its own wintel server customers to tell them thatI HP will end-of-line those server lines (and probably storage) and migratemN those to Compaq's Proliant and Digital's Storageworks products, HP is bound toK give them some sort of deal to make sure that migrating to the new machinesmA will cost a whole lot less than migrating to dell/IBM for wintel.   M And you could bet real money that *IF* HP is to announce end-of-life for VMS,iM that the bad news will be accompanied with rebate coupons that would make it  N much cheaper to stay with HP on its other surviving products compared to going to Sun etc.   L And guess what  Those offers will probably be too sweet and your accountantsJ will tell you to swallow your anger against HP because the financial deals1 give your employer no choice but to stay with HP.l  K And the thing about those face-to-face meeting with individual customers isnL that we won't really know what sort of deals are being offfered and they may3 differ significantly from one customer to another. a  L And just like the Alpha murder, the smaller customers will be left to dry in
 the dark .   ------------------------------   Date: 10 Mar 2002 20:01:06 CDT= From: wayne@tachysoft.xxx.525246.killspam.00ce (Wayne Sewell)d5 Subject: Re: Why not we guys buy OpenVMS from Compaq?r. Message-ID: <qRkE8HHnNKnV@tachxxsoftxxconsult>  [ In article <3C8BF3D6.8A8EF213@fsi.net>, "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> writes:e  > system@SendSpamHere.ORG wrote: >> of >> In article <CEMopQDaXRVy@eisner.encompasserve.org>, Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) writes:g >> >In article <DnKi8.66806$xG.28928@news2.bloor.is>, "john smith" <Xudongzong.0974@rogers.com> writes:e9 >> >> Looks like have a lot concerns with OpenVMS future.  >> > >> >Only in this newsgroup.e >> > >> >> I am wondering if we canM >> >> set  up a new company can buy OpenVMS from Compaq. So we do not need too >> >> worry about too much.l >> >>l7 >> >> Will it cost 2 billions? Not sure if is feasible.  >> >C >> >If that is the price, then the question is whether every activeV@ >> >participant in this newsgroup will provide 1 million dollars9 >> >for the cause.  Will you take care of organizing it ?. >> tP >> I'll put up $1M if every other participant in this newsgroup does so as well. > 
 > Um, Bri? > I > Pardon my asking in this way, but if you've got a megabuck, WTF are youn
 > doing here?     O I read the comment as "I've got as much chance of raising a mill as anyone elseV7 in this group."  Which of course is true, since 0 == 0.u   --  O ===============================================================================nM Wayne Sewell, Tachyon Software Consulting  (281)812-0738  wayne@tachysoft.xxxF: http://www.tachysoft.xxx/www/tachyon.html and wayne.html  K change .xxx to .com in addresses above, assuming you are not a spambot  :-)eO ===============================================================================o= Society Lady:  Are you familiar with the Great Wall of China?-5        Curly:  No, but I know a big fence in Chicago!r   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 06:18:16 +0100b- From: Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@free.fr>.5 Subject: Re: Why not we guys buy OpenVMS from Compaq? ' Message-ID: <3C8C3E17.31450B08@free.fr>u  G So, to me, could occur what happened to APPLE before Steve came back. AdK revolution from the base. The happy VMS Customers (all by definition) couldtP stand up and claim "we do not want VMS to disappear". If 477 000 users worldwideM start doing waves on this, instead of us twenty or so here, this could changee the situation.  L After all, you in the States have this file process against monopolism whichJ broke ATT in pieces and is (still) trying to do more or less the same withM MacroHard. Why don't you ask the Court, Senate, Congress and such to create amN new file named "a product that more than x Customers are still using and whichJ is in danger of death should be sold by the owner who wants to kill it for$ invalid (customer-related) reasons".  M Let's create an organized operation to do a preliminary study (with DECUS andc< all) and if you need a French Rep., you know who to mail to.   D.   JF Mezei wrote:- >  > Bob Ceculski wrote:  > G > > but if they sell it, at least they could still sell us printers andjG > > maybe some pc "clients" along the way, otherwise they will lose all5< > > vms customers business!  How is the FreeVMS port coming? > N > When Compaq announce the murder of Alpha, it visited its important customersN > on the same day.  Compaq is very aware that customers will drop Compaq/HP ifL > they kill VMS. My feeling is that they have learned this and implemented a= > strategy on June 25 of handholding the customers who count.r > N > Carly has already said that the product roadmaps will be unveiled on April 1L > or 2 on a face to face basis with customers instead of a big announcement. > O > What this tells me is that Compaq is ready to visit customers, give them somea= > bad news and then sweeten the pot with irresistible offers.e > P > For instance, when HP visits its own wintel server customers to tell them thatK > HP will end-of-line those server lines (and probably storage) and migrate'P > those to Compaq's Proliant and Digital's Storageworks products, HP is bound toM > give them some sort of deal to make sure that migrating to the new machinesDC > will cost a whole lot less than migrating to dell/IBM for wintel.  > O > And you could bet real money that *IF* HP is to announce end-of-life for VMS,yN > that the bad news will be accompanied with rebate coupons that would make itP > much cheaper to stay with HP on its other surviving products compared to going
 > to Sun etc.  > N > And guess what  Those offers will probably be too sweet and your accountantsL > will tell you to swallow your anger against HP because the financial deals3 > give your employer no choice but to stay with HP.i > M > And the thing about those face-to-face meeting with individual customers is-N > that we won't really know what sort of deals are being offfered and they may4 > differ significantly from one customer to another. > N > And just like the Alpha murder, the smaller customers will be left to dry in > the dark .   --  H   ----------------------------------------------------------------------H MORANDI Consultants  -  WEB: http://Didier.Morandi.Free.fr/index_us.htmlH Pflanzschulstrasse 53, 8004 Zurich, Switzerland. GSM: +41 (0)79 705 4670H 19, chemin de la Butte, 31400 Toulouse, France.  GSM: +33 (0)6 7983 6418  H Disaster Recovery Plans, Computer Security Audits, DEC OpenVMS ExpertiseH On parle franais Man spricht Deutsch se habla Castellano English spoken   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2002.137 ************************as able to ensure that VMSJ didn't compete against the wintel business. And it was also able to ensureN that VMS resulted in profitable hardware sales of prorietarty hardware (alpha) as well as support contracts.   M If H \    \    \    \    \    \    \    \    \    	\    
\    \    \    
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