1 INFO-VAX	Tue, 12 Mar 2002	Volume 2002 : Issue 139       Contents:& Another big block votes against merger* Re: Another big block votes against merger* Re: Another big block votes against merger* Re: Another big block votes against merger RE: Backup/Journal question... Re: Backup/Journal question... Customer worries Re: Customer worries Re: Customer worries Re: Customer worries! Re: Display settings in VMS Motif , Re: EV8 and McKinley analysis by Paul DeMoneB FreeVMS development schedule, was: Re: Why not we guys buy OpenVMS' Re: HP Unix servers plunge below $1,000 ' Re: HP Unix servers plunge below $1,000 ' Re: HP Unix servers plunge below $1,000 ' Re: HP Unix servers plunge below $1,000 ' Re: HP Unix servers plunge below $1,000 ' Re: HP Unix servers plunge below $1,000 ' RE: HP Unix servers plunge below $1,000 ' Re: HP Unix servers plunge below $1,000 ' HP voting: The return of the chad ? :-) + IBM's ESS/Shark as storage for VMS systems? / Re: IBM's ESS/Shark as storage for VMS systems?  Re: Incremental BACKUP question & Re: instruction 'free' in C with VM os Re: Itanium troubles Re: Itanium troubles+ Re: Microsoft Curries Favor With Undergrads  Off topic (Decnet address)! Re: OpenVMS Business Solutions CD " Re: OpenVMS Mail and Exchange 2000" Re: OpenVMS Mail and Exchange 2000" Re: OpenVMS Mail and Exchange 2000" Re: OpenVMS Mail and Exchange 2000" Re: OpenVMS Mail and Exchange 2000" Re: OpenVMS Mail and Exchange 2000" Re: OpenVMS Mail and Exchange 2000" Re: OpenVMS Mail and Exchange 2000" Re: OpenVMS Mail and Exchange 2000" Re: OpenVMS Mail and Exchange 2000" RE: OpenVMS Mail and Exchange 2000" RE: OpenVMS Mail and Exchange 2000" Re: OpenVMS Mail and Exchange 2000L OT: TANSTAAFL (was Re: Viability of a Commercial ISO-9960 formatter for VMS)< Re: R.I.P. OpenVMS - ISS Recommends That H-P Holders Vote inE Re: R.I.P. OpenVMS - ISS Recommends That H-P Holders Vote in Favor of E Re: R.I.P. OpenVMS - ISS Recommends That H-P Holders Vote in Favor of ( Re: reading sequential files in PERL !?! Re: Reduced SW RAID-5 ) sending all data as out-of-band in TCP/IP  Re: Shannon on the merger  RE: Shannon on the merger  Re: Shannon on the merger  Re: Shannon on the merger " Re: Shutdowning 15 VAX machines..." Re: Shutdowning 15 VAX machines..." Re: Shutdowning 15 VAX machines... Re: SMG ! Re: Standalone backup question...  unzip installation Re: unzip installation Re: unzip installation Re: unzip installation Re: unzip installation Re: unzip installation Re: unzip installation# Re: Users being randomly logged out  Re: VFC File Problem8 Re: Viability of a Commercial ISO-9960 formatter for VMS8 Re: Viability of a Commercial ISO-9960 formatter for VMS8 Re: Viability of a Commercial ISO-9960 formatter for VMS8 Re: Viability of a Commercial ISO-9960 formatter for VMS VMS conferencing software. Re: VMS conferencing software. Re: VMS conferencing software. Re: VMS conferencing software. Re: VMS conferencing software. Re: VMS conferencing software. RE: VMS conferencing software. Re: VMS conferencing software. Re: VMS conferencing software. Re: VMS conferencing software., Re: Why not we guys buy OpenVMS from Compaq?, Re: Why not we guys buy OpenVMS from Compaq?, Re: Why not we guys buy OpenVMS from Compaq?, Re: Why not we guys buy OpenVMS from Compaq?, Re: Why not we guys buy OpenVMS from Compaq?, Re: Why not we guys buy OpenVMS from Compaq?, Re: Why not we guys buy OpenVMS from Compaq?, Re: Why not we guys buy OpenVMS from Compaq?, Re: Why not we guys buy OpenVMS from Compaq?, Re: Why not we guys buy OpenVMS from Compaq?, Re: Why not we guys buy OpenVMS from Compaq?< [OT]  NY Times Op-Ed misses point about unreliablity of PC's@ Re: [OT]  NY Times Op-Ed misses point about unreliablity of PC's@ Re: [OT]  NY Times Op-Ed misses point about unreliablity of PC's@ Re: [OT]  NY Times Op-Ed misses point about unreliablity of PC's< [OT] US/Europe living costs, was: Re: VMS sys admin salaries@ Re: [OT] US/Europe living costs, was: Re: VMS sys admin salaries  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 00:27:57 GMT " From: bugs@pu.net (Mark Hittinger)/ Subject: Another big block votes against merger C Message-ID: <hYbj8.346116$Aw2.28412081@bin7.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>   H Just a few minutes ago Wells Fargo announced they would vote against theF merger.  They hold 3% apparently.  Maybe it won't be as close as I was expecting it to be.    Later    Mark Hittinger bugs@pu.net    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 02:50:53 GMT " From: bugs@pu.net (Mark Hittinger)3 Subject: Re: Another big block votes against merger A Message-ID: <h2ej8.40105$8a2.2794395@bin2.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>   $ bugs@pu.net (Mark Hittinger) writes:I >Just a few minutes ago Wells Fargo announced they would vote against the G >merger.  They hold 3% apparently.  Maybe it won't be as close as I was  >expecting it to be.  K The Wells Fargo news is under the stock symbol WFC for those having trouble L locating it.  Evidently the initial report of the 3% is wrong by an order of1 magnitude - the actual number is more like 0.37%.   L Still, it is 6.6 million shares voting no on the HWP side.  No idea how muchK CPQ the Wells Fargo mutuals have under their belt but that will probably be  voted no also.  * Anyhow the vote is back to being close :-)   Later    Mark Hittinger bugs@pu.net    ------------------------------    Date: 11 Mar 2002 21:51:45 -0600+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) 3 Subject: Re: Another big block votes against merger 3 Message-ID: <u9AdKMGABmR$@eisner.encompasserve.org>   f In article <h2ej8.40105$8a2.2794395@bin2.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>, bugs@pu.net (Mark Hittinger) writes:& > bugs@pu.net (Mark Hittinger) writes:J >>Just a few minutes ago Wells Fargo announced they would vote against theH >>merger.  They hold 3% apparently.  Maybe it won't be as close as I was >>expecting it to be.  > M > The Wells Fargo news is under the stock symbol WFC for those having trouble N > locating it.  Evidently the initial report of the 3% is wrong by an order of3 > magnitude - the actual number is more like 0.37%.  > N > Still, it is 6.6 million shares voting no on the HWP side.  No idea how muchM > CPQ the Wells Fargo mutuals have under their belt but that will probably be  > voted no also. > , > Anyhow the vote is back to being close :-) >   0 http://www.internetwk.com/story/INW20020311S0007  M "We believe we have the support of most of our 20 largest shareholders," Phil H Condit, chairman of airplane maker Boeing Co. and an HP board member who? advocates the $23 billion plan, said during a conference call.    / 	Minus the Hewletts and the Packards or course!    				Rob    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 23:34:12 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> 3 Subject: Re: Another big block votes against merger , Message-ID: <3C8D8538.3D056FD1@videotron.ca>  . > > Anyhow the vote is back to being close :-)  M Was it ever close ? As far as I know, the Helwtts only have 18%, and how much ' else has announced they would vote no ?   K Last I heard, they need more than 50% to defeat Carly's plan. 18% is a long 
 way from 50%.   M Now, if Compaq votes 99% in favour of the deal, that should be seen as a vote L of no-confidence in the capellas/winkler team and I would hope that HP wouldF take that into account and make sure the curly team doesn't stay long.  K If shareholders had confidence in compaq's management, they would prefer to # see Compaq fight it out on its own.    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 20:45:59 +0100 5 From: "GWDVMS::MOELLER" <moeller@gwdvms.dnet.gwdg.de> ' Subject: RE: Backup/Journal question... . Message-ID: <E16kVk7-0003rC-00@mailer.gwdg.de>   valdemir-@uol.com.br writes:8 > Im my new job I'm using Backup/list/journal to restore@ > many files from tapes. Is there any way (using system services= > or lexicals) to access data stored in .bjl files ? I'd like < > create a procedure or program to access information inside > these files (.bjl files).  > Thanks in advance...  7 Indeed I have (.MAR and .FOR) programs lying around for 6 reading (and even modifying) .BJL files. Unfortunately5 they were posted about 12 years ago to INFO-VAX, and  5 are not in a format ready for today's consumption ...   D If noone else can help, let me know and I'll .ZIP the stuff for FTP.  M Wolfgang J. Moeller, Tel. +49 551 201-1516/-1510, moeller@gwdvms.dnet.gwdg.de M GWDG, D-37077 Goettingen, F.R.Germany     |    Disclaimer: No claim intended! M http://www.gwdg.de/~moeller/ ---- <moeller@gwdg.de> ---- <w.moeller@ieee.org>    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 04:07:35 GMT 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> ' Subject: Re: Backup/Journal question... ' Message-ID: <3C8D8112.7190B0A5@fsi.net>    GWDVMS::MOELLER wrote: >  > valdemir-@uol.com.br writes:: > > Im my new job I'm using Backup/list/journal to restoreB > > many files from tapes. Is there any way (using system services? > > or lexicals) to access data stored in .bjl files ? I'd like > > > create a procedure or program to access information inside > > these files (.bjl files).  > > Thanks in advance... > 9 > Indeed I have (.MAR and .FOR) programs lying around for 8 > reading (and even modifying) .BJL files. Unfortunately6 > they were posted about 12 years ago to INFO-VAX, and7 > are not in a format ready for today's consumption ...  > F > If noone else can help, let me know and I'll .ZIP the stuff for FTP.  F I found a bunch of your old stuff (circa. 1989, 1990 or so) via GoogleE search of comp.os.vms. Still, if you have sources (preferably .MARs),  that'd be GREAT!   --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 21:20:33 GMT * From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> Subject: Customer worries A Message-ID: <Bc9j8.35917$uv5.3262753@bin6.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>   E Recently it was suggested that no one outside c.o.v. was particularly I concerned about VMS's future.  Just thought I'd provide pointers to three D ComputerWorld articles today that suggest otherwise (URLs may wrap):  D http://www.computerworld.com/cwi/story/0,1199,NAV47_STO68964,00.html  J Primarily merger-related concerns, though one interviewee stated that "theI Alpha transition [was] forcing him to scramble to find replacements".  It B also makes it clear why the Tandem folks aren't nearly as worried.  B http://www.computerworld.com/storyba/0,4125,NAV47_STO68965,00.html  L An interview with Encompass president Joe Polizzi - hardly a vocal critic ofK Compaq, but he addresses the questions in as balanced a manner as one could L expect given his position, aside from his statement that "the rationale [forL the Alphacide] made sense'.  Otherwise, just admission of the general unease over last-year's developments.  B http://www.computerworld.com/storyba/0,4125,NAV47_STO68984,00.html  I Identifies some of the problems cHomPaq will face even if the merger goes I smoothly, and notes S&P's lowering of HP's credit rating last week due to  merger concerns.   - bill   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 23:21:31 GMT * From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> Subject: Re: Customer worries A Message-ID: <%Zaj8.39618$uv5.3360298@bin6.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>   5 "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote in message ; news:Bc9j8.35917$uv5.3262753@bin6.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com... G > Recently it was suggested that no one outside c.o.v. was particularly K > concerned about VMS's future.  Just thought I'd provide pointers to three F > ComputerWorld articles today that suggest otherwise (URLs may wrap):  ( And just to round out today's offerings:  B http://www.computerworld.com/storyba/0,4125,NAV47_STO69011,00.html  G Just in case you thought CalPers was an anomaly.  And it notes that S&P E suggests that it may downgrade HP *again* if the merger actually goes  through.  B http://www.computerworld.com/storyba/0,4125,NAV47_STO69010,00.html  J At the end, Joe Pollizzi returns to being a dutiful Compaq spokes-dummy byJ stating that the merger's "end result is definitely worthwhile".  But Jeff6 Clarke had some interesting things to say before that:   <quote>   L Clarke also said difficulties in the Compaq integration of Digital EquipmentH Corp. have been instructive for those involved in planning the HP/CompaqB merger. "We were not clear about road maps and didn't consistently% communicate with employees," he said.   E According to Clarke, "compromises" agreed to in that merger regarding  products were later changed.   <end quote>   F Does anyone really think that the Alpha (or VMS) road maps were at allI unclear?  And in the case of Alpha, right up to the multiple-VP level (as K evidenced by the Jesse & Bill letter posted publicly for years)?  Would you / buy a used car from Jeff after such statements?   I And as for the changes in '"compromises" agreed to in that [DEC] merger', L exactly what was changed, and by whom?  Doesn't seem that it could have beenH good old Eckhard's fault, which leaves Curly holding that particular bag@ (along with all the others he's trying to hide behind his back).  G As I said once before, in the Old West behavior like this wouldn't have I gotten these people fired, it would have gotten them shot.  Sometimes the I old ways seem more viscerally satisfying, but I'll settle for giving them 	 the boot.    - bill   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 23:23:35 GMT * From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> Subject: Re: Customer worries A Message-ID: <X%aj8.37603$8a2.2539708@bin2.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>   5 "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote in message ; news:%Zaj8.39618$uv5.3360298@bin6.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com...  > 7 > "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote in message = > news:Bc9j8.35917$uv5.3262753@bin6.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com... I > > Recently it was suggested that no one outside c.o.v. was particularly G > > concerned about VMS's future.  Just thought I'd provide pointers to  three H > > ComputerWorld articles today that suggest otherwise (URLs may wrap): > * > And just to round out today's offerings:  2 Damn - forgot another (this one's *sure* to wrap):  L http://cbs.marketwatch.com/news/story.asp?siteid=mktw&dist=mktgpkgsnap&guid=2 %7BF30817B6%2D2320%2D4F0F%2DBCDD%2DEA752D252D8E%7D  L Merrill Lynch surveyed 100 corporate CIOs on their views on the merger:  25%& in favor, 46% against, 29% no opinion.   - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 21:40:19 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>  Subject: Re: Customer worries , Message-ID: <3C8D6A91.7E90BF9B@videotron.ca>   Bill Todd wrote: > G > Recently it was suggested that no one outside c.o.v. was particularly K > concerned about VMS's future.  Just thought I'd provide pointers to three F > ComputerWorld articles today that suggest otherwise (URLs may wrap):   Shape of things to come:D http://www.computerworld.com/cwi/story/0,1199,NAV63_STO68971,00.html ##G 	According to Rob Enderle, an analyst at Giga Information Group Inc. in L Cambridge, Mass., the deal with Nestle was certainly helped by the "anti-HP,F anti-Compaq campaign" IBM has used since the planned merger of the twoM companies was announced last year. What IBM has done, Enderle said, is to ask M enough questions to raise doubts in the minds of prospective customers. "This K is the first informed indication that it was working well,"  Enderle said.    N  "Nestle is considered to be one of the flagship accounts. So HP clearly would/ have been a bidder" for the contract, he said.    K  But aside from any merger concerns, it's unlikely that IBM would have been I able to replace HP if Nestle had been totally satisfied with the previous  contract, Enderle said.  ##  K > Identifies some of the problems cHomPaq will face even if the merger goes K > smoothly, and notes S&P's lowering of HP's credit rating last week due to  > merger concerns.  L Remember when Palmer started to tell customers to drop VMS ASAP ? FinancialsI got worse ASAP. If HP makes a mistakes and mishandles some of the product M transistions, financials will get bad ASAP. That will be followed by layoffs,tN musical chairs at the top, more cutbacks etc etc until HP is just wintel maker the same size as Dell.   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 00:38:50 GMTp2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)* Subject: Re: Display settings in VMS Motif2 Message-ID: <u6cj8.836$fL6.20428@news.cpqcorp.net>  G In article <3C87EAE6.3020608@home.nl>, Dirk Munk <munk@home.nl> writes:e( :I have a powerstorm 4D20 graphics card.  E   The PowerStorm 4D20 *switch* settings are in Ask The Wizard (2041).i  N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------N       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.com    N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 15:38:10 -0500s- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>P5 Subject: Re: EV8 and McKinley analysis by Paul DeMone , Message-ID: <3C8D15AE.A845912A@videotron.ca>   Fred Kleinsorge wrote: > M > Uh.  Out of context answer to the wrong question?  My reply was directed atpM > the question of what defines a "industry standard" box.  Nothing to do withaL > VMS, or DECwindows.  Just that any box that calls itself industry standard$ > and does not run Windows... isn't.  L What happens when a company starts to misused the term "industry standard" ?F From the point of view, HP and Comapq are calling that IA64 vapourwareM "industry standard". The thing is far from being industry standard, very far.e  L When a vendor starts to misuse terms, it loses credibility. When Compaq usesD the term "industry leading clustering" to describe its NT clusteringE offerings, do you think that it gains any credibility with enterpriselN customers who know that NT's clustering is only able to take baby steps and is far behind ?  K Compaq already claims IA64 to be industry standard. By the same definitions J that make the 8086-wintel junk "industry standard" (volume), then Alpha isL more "industry standard" than IA64. Heck, if you look at "real" servers thatN do more than just act as a file/print server for Nt "office" clients, I am not- even sure that NT has bigger share than Unix.u  L "industry standard" is just marketing gobbledigook to try to define the nextL wave of customer brainwashing.  Sun succeeded with its "open vs proprietary"H campaign and convinced folks that they should no longer buy "proprietaryL systems". And now both Compaq and HP are using "industry standard" to try toD convince people to stay away from non wintel products such as Sun's.  E Oh, and by the way, two decades or three ago, IBM mainframes were thefL "industry standard", then VAX became an industry standard. When Data GeneralM was formed by ex-deccies, they too hoped to beat VAX and have their DG becomen industry standard.  I HP and Compaq are betting that IA64 will become industry standard and areiM doing Intel's dirty work. But in the end, Intel can survive without IA64, bute HP will lose big time.   ------------------------------    Date: 11 Mar 2002 14:16:59 -0600B From: clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP (Simon Clubley)K Subject: FreeVMS development schedule, was: Re: Why not we guys buy OpenVMS 3 Message-ID: <rT4ma7ur1djj@eisner.encompasserve.org>   i In article <a6i28b$kt7$1@tyfon.itea.ntnu.no>, Roar =?iso-8859-1?Q?Thron=E6s?= <roart@nvg.ntnu.no> writes:C+ > Bob Ceculski <bob@instantwhip.com> wrote:CG > : but if they sell it, at least they could still sell us printers anddG > : maybe some pc "clients" along the way, otherwise they will lose all < > : vms customers business!  How is the FreeVMS port coming? >  > Slow.u0 > There is a lot of mere words. (Just like here)L > Maybe people just want to wait for a finished product, but contribute not.: > Possibly a cultural thingie? (That will have to change). >    Some suggestions:i  H People may be wanting to work on FreeVMS, but may not know what they canJ do to contribute. Have you considered a FSF style task list, detailing the1 various jobs that need doing and in which order ?   J You are focusing on the kernel on http://freevms.free.fr/indexGB.html, butL people who can't work on the kernel could work on other things, for example,B with the DCL utilities (SEARCH, DIFF, etc) as well as the editors.< (What editors are you planning to support in FreeVMS, BTW ?)  L I am wondering if a better short-term goal may be to implement the user-modeI environment (ie: DCL & utilities, the editors, RMS, etc) on Linux. With aeK translation layer between Linux and the applications (for example, a simplesG CLI$ implementation could hide the argc/argv interface), it would allowo* the same code to run on Linux and FreeVMS.   Simon.   -- pB Simon Clubley, clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP       + Microsoft: The Lada of the computing world.y   ------------------------------    Date: 11 Mar 2002 12:33:15 -08001 From: keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com (Keith Parris)d0 Subject: Re: HP Unix servers plunge below $1,000= Message-ID: <cf15391e.0203111233.462afef6@posting.google.com>    rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger) wrote in message news:<rdeininger-0703022115320001@1cust40.tnt4.nashua.nh.da.uu.net>...G > I don't see how HP could offer an alpha-based system for at little as-: > $1000.  Alpha CPUs are too expensive at current volumes.   I don't agree.  D Other posters have estimated the average cost of Alpha chips at onlyD about $500.  Yes, that's a big piece of the $1,000 price target, butD you can buy a complete new 1 Ghz eMachines PC these days at Best BuyC for $399 (sometimes even with monitor and printer included), so theaA rest of the parts could likely be fit into $400 or so of cost and ) still leave enough room to make a profit.i  B You wouldn't use 1 Ghz EV69s for a low-end 1U server anyway -- youF could use chips near their end-of-life for a much lower per-chip cost.? --------------------------------------------------------------- ? Keith Parris | parris at encompasserve dot org | Consulting on: > Clusters, Disaster Tolerance, Performance, I/O, Storage & SANs   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 21:11:10 GMT 1 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com>h0 Subject: Re: HP Unix servers plunge below $1,0009 Message-ID: <O39j8.13575$44.3277858@typhoon.ne.ipsvc.net>   > "Keith Parris" <keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com> wrote in message7 news:cf15391e.0203111233.462afef6@posting.google.com... ? > rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger) wrote in messageoF news:<rdeininger-0703022115320001@1cust40.tnt4.nashua.nh.da.uu.net>...I > > I don't see how HP could offer an alpha-based system for at little as1< > > $1000.  Alpha CPUs are too expensive at current volumes. >: > I don't agree. >kF > Other posters have estimated the average cost of Alpha chips at onlyF > about $500.  Yes, that's a big piece of the $1,000 price target, butF > you can buy a complete new 1 Ghz eMachines PC these days at Best BuyE > for $399 (sometimes even with monitor and printer included), so thedC > rest of the parts could likely be fit into $400 or so of cost andv+ > still leave enough room to make a profit.e  I If you calculated the cost of Alpha chip, system, software, compiler, etcoI development and deployment and divided it by the number of chips produced'L each year, you'd end up with a per-chip overhead cost of about $500USD. This' could be one reason CPQ scuttled Alpha.n   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 16:36:28 -05005% From: "John Vottero" <John@mvpsi.com>e0 Subject: Re: HP Unix servers plunge below $1,000/ Message-ID: <u8q8r85l8vik86@news.supernews.com>0  < "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com> wrote in message3 news:O39j8.13575$44.3277858@typhoon.ne.ipsvc.net...l >f@ > "Keith Parris" <keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com> wrote in message9 > news:cf15391e.0203111233.462afef6@posting.google.com...aA > > rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger) wrote in message.H > news:<rdeininger-0703022115320001@1cust40.tnt4.nashua.nh.da.uu.net>...K > > > I don't see how HP could offer an alpha-based system for at little asy> > > > $1000.  Alpha CPUs are too expensive at current volumes. > >a > > I don't agree. > > H > > Other posters have estimated the average cost of Alpha chips at onlyH > > about $500.  Yes, that's a big piece of the $1,000 price target, butH > > you can buy a complete new 1 Ghz eMachines PC these days at Best BuyG > > for $399 (sometimes even with monitor and printer included), so thegE > > rest of the parts could likely be fit into $400 or so of cost and - > > still leave enough room to make a profit.v >JK > If you calculated the cost of Alpha chip, system, software, compiler, etc K > development and deployment and divided it by the number of chips producedaI > each year, you'd end up with a per-chip overhead cost of about $500USD.  This) > could be one reason CPQ scuttled Alpha.n >a  E Yes but if they had a sub $1,000 box they might sell 10 times as manyf8 systems and cut the per chip overhead cost to under $50.   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 21:55:36 GMTa* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>0 Subject: Re: HP Unix servers plunge below $1,000A Message-ID: <sJ9j8.37021$uv5.3285074@bin6.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>r  < "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com> wrote in message3 news:O39j8.13575$44.3277858@typhoon.ne.ipsvc.net...e   ...n  K > If you calculated the cost of Alpha chip, system, software, compiler, etc9K > development and deployment and divided it by the number of chips producedpI > each year, you'd end up with a per-chip overhead cost of about $500USD.y This) > could be one reason CPQ scuttled Alpha.r  F Right.  They were panting with anticipation at being able to wrest theH low-end commodity market from IA32, and were just *so* disappointed whenK that extra $500 destroyed their illusion that they threw out the whole damn3? thing.  After all, no other market could possibly be important.    - bill   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 22:17:35 GMTe1 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com>p0 Subject: Re: HP Unix servers plunge below $1,0009 Message-ID: <32aj8.14208$44.3321323@typhoon.ne.ipsvc.net>1  0 "John Vottero" <John@mvpsi.com> wrote in message) news:u8q8r85l8vik86@news.supernews.com...t> > "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com> wrote in message   > >eI > > If you calculated the cost of Alpha chip, system, software, compiler,r etc D > > development and deployment and divided it by the number of chips producedK > > each year, you'd end up with a per-chip overhead cost of about $500USD.  > This+ > > could be one reason CPQ scuttled Alpha.r > >n >oG > Yes but if they had a sub $1,000 box they might sell 10 times as manyn: > systems and cut the per chip overhead cost to under $50. >n  E No doubt! And that seemed to be The Plan, back about 12-13 years ago.uJ Unfortunately, the Planners left desktop OPERATING SYSTEM and APPLICATIONS out of the Plan.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 20:37:29 -0500P2 From: rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger)0 Subject: Re: HP Unix servers plunge below $1,000K Message-ID: <rdeininger-1103022037290001@1cust234.tnt3.nashua.nh.da.uu.net>>  = In article <cf15391e.0203111233.462afef6@posting.google.com>,62 keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com (Keith Parris) wrote:  > >rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger) wrote in messageF news:<rdeininger-0703022115320001@1cust40.tnt4.nashua.nh.da.uu.net>...H >> I don't see how HP could offer an alpha-based system for at little as; >> $1000.  Alpha CPUs are too expensive at current volumes.r >l >I don't agree.g > E >Other posters have estimated the average cost of Alpha chips at only 
 >about $500. m  ( Well, I don't believe the $500 estimate.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 18:21:03 -0800t# From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com>a0 Subject: RE: HP Unix servers plunge below $1,0009 Message-ID: <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIAEELEFAA.tom@kednos.com>6   > -----Original Message-----; > From: Robert Deininger [mailto:rdeininger@mindspring.com]t& > Sent: Monday, March 11, 2002 5:37 PM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Come2 > Subject: Re: HP Unix servers plunge below $1,000 >  > ? > In article <cf15391e.0203111233.462afef6@posting.google.com>,t4 > keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com (Keith Parris) wrote: > @ > >rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger) wrote in messageH > news:<rdeininger-0703022115320001@1cust40.tnt4.nashua.nh.da.uu.net>...J > >> I don't see how HP could offer an alpha-based system for at little as= > >> $1000.  Alpha CPUs are too expensive at current volumes.y > >e > >I don't agree.  > > G > >Other posters have estimated the average cost of Alpha chips at only  > >about $500. e > * > Well, I don't believe the $500 estimate.  E at $500 I doubt Alpha would have been killed,  that is a great price!t   >    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 03:23:04 GMTh1 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com>y0 Subject: Re: HP Unix servers plunge below $1,0009 Message-ID: <swej8.15970$44.3529352@typhoon.ne.ipsvc.net>c  . "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> wrote in message3 news:CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIAEELEFAA.tom@kednos.com...  >  >  > > -----Original Message-----= > > From: Robert Deininger [mailto:rdeininger@mindspring.com]o( > > Sent: Monday, March 11, 2002 5:37 PM > > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comt4 > > Subject: Re: HP Unix servers plunge below $1,000 > >- > >-A > > In article <cf15391e.0203111233.462afef6@posting.google.com>,d6 > > keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com (Keith Parris) wrote: > >eB > > >rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger) wrote in messageJ > > news:<rdeininger-0703022115320001@1cust40.tnt4.nashua.nh.da.uu.net>...L > > >> I don't see how HP could offer an alpha-based system for at little as? > > >> $1000.  Alpha CPUs are too expensive at current volumes.p > > >i > > >I don't agree.e > > >iI > > >Other posters have estimated the average cost of Alpha chips at only  > > >about $500. > >s, > > Well, I don't believe the $500 estimate. >oG > at $500 I doubt Alpha would have been killed,  that is a great price!   L Presumably a heck of a lot less than CPQ is paying IBM for each EV68 and EV7 chip that it purchases!c   ------------------------------    Date: 11 Mar 2002 13:42:52 -0600B From: clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP (Simon Clubley)0 Subject: HP voting: The return of the chad ? :-)3 Message-ID: <Qcg5S8IqwYUy@eisner.encompasserve.org>   - Something that I haven't seen mentioned here:e  6 http://www.interex.org/hotnews/content/hpwn3.8.02.html  K Summary: The closeness of the HP vote means that recounts and legal battles.L may happen. It also means that the HP vote result will probably not be known when the CPQ vote is taken.p   Simon.   -- oB Simon Clubley, clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP       + Microsoft: The Lada of the computing world.g   ------------------------------   Date: 12 Mar 2002 06:42:58 GMT7 From: yehavi@vms.huji.ac.il (Yehavi Bourvine (58-4279))t4 Subject: IBM's ESS/Shark as storage for VMS systems?% Message-ID: <2002Mar12.064258@hujicc>M   Hello,  L    We have a cluster of 4 Alpha systems running heavy I/O applications (likeM RDB databases and home written applications) which share disks via MSCP. I amaM now checking the ability to move to a central storage solutions, and the mainsE contenders are Compaq (MA-8,000), EMC (Symetrix) and IBM (ESS/Shark).n      I have tow questions:M 1. Each system connects separately to the central storage via  dedicated SCSIcJ    or F/C card (and ofcourse has LAN connection for the cluster). Will theJ    LAN cluster do the all file/records locking when two systems access the    same disk/file ? I 2. I know a lot of systems use MA-8,000 or EMC. How is the IBM's Shark? IlE    mean how it works with VMS systems and whether anyone had problemsn*    intergrating it into a VMS environment.>                                              Thanks! __Yehavi:   ------------------------------    Date: 11 Mar 2002 23:33:03 -0600+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young)a8 Subject: Re: IBM's ESS/Shark as storage for VMS systems?3 Message-ID: <PWuY1PtrshWE@eisner.encompasserve.org>l  _ In article <2002Mar12.064258@hujicc>, yehavi@vms.huji.ac.il (Yehavi Bourvine (58-4279)) writes:  > Hello, > N >    We have a cluster of 4 Alpha systems running heavy I/O applications (likeO > RDB databases and home written applications) which share disks via MSCP. I amiO > now checking the ability to move to a central storage solutions, and the maineG > contenders are Compaq (MA-8,000), EMC (Symetrix) and IBM (ESS/Shark).  >   6 	You left out the best one of the bunch!  The new HSV:  A http://www.compaq.com/products/storageworks/enterprise/index.html-   >    I have tow questions:O > 1. Each system connects separately to the central storage via  dedicated SCSI.L >    or F/C card (and ofcourse has LAN connection for the cluster). Will theL >    LAN cluster do the all file/records locking when two systems access the >    same disk/file ?m  , 	I'm skipping this one.  You have a cluster.  I > 2. I know a lot of systems use MA-8,000 or EMC. How is the IBM's Shark?   B 	Shark?  Very new to VMS support.  Perhaps you can be a beta site.  F > I mean how it works with VMS systems and whether anyone had problems, >    intergrating it into a VMS environment.  E 	Take a long hard look at the HSV.  Imagine how many drives you need."C 	Maybe you want 500 GByte of RAID protected storage.  Configure thet? 	HSV with 60 - 36 GByte drives, you could make all your storage C 	RAID 0+1 and have plenty left over.  Don't let anyone get you intouE 	a long discussion about "raw" storage versus "usable" storage.  ThattE 	is the beginning of the end.  Stay focused on *your* needs and forcesD 	the vendors to deliver quotes in disk drive counts!  That is a veryE 	vicious tactic and makes very good sense if you think about it!  ButnD 	then again, as soon as the discussion turns to "raw" storage versusE 	"usable" storage, watch out as the storage is way too expensive whenr 	that song and dance begins!  ? 	If "they" get to your senior management and you find yourself sG 	no longer in the loop, I can *almost* guarantee you what platform you n 	will be getting.o   				Rob    ------------------------------    Date: 11 Mar 2002 17:38:34 -0800. From: spamsink2001@yahoo.com (Alan E. Feldman)( Subject: Re: Incremental BACKUP question= Message-ID: <b096a4ee.0203111738.5f056692@posting.google.com>s  | Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> wrote in message news:<01KF8AER7G2Q8Y996Y@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>...U > > In a previous article, Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> wrote:rG > > ->> Use /NOINCREMENTAL on the backup command. That will restore the"N > > ->> pre-paranoid behavior of not looking at the directory revision dates.  > > -> n > > ->Is this documented?r > > -> o > > ->$  HELP BACK/INCRf > > -> rE > > ->The /INCREMENTAL qualifier is valid only in restore operations.a > > H > > Not in the help (even in VMS 7.3). There's a DSNlink article titled: > ( > $ write sys$output f$getsyi("version") > V7.3C > $ pipe help backup/incremental | search sys$input "valid only in"uF >      The /INCREMENTAL qualifier is valid only in restore operations. > B > So HELP is wrong.  Hopefully it will be corrected in the future!    > /NOINCREMENTAL has its own spot in the BACKUP subtopics list!:  "  Additional information available:     Parameters Qualifiers  [...]n:   /GROUP_SIZE           /IGNORE    /IMAGE     /INCREMENTAL [...]tD   /NOINCREMENTAL        /OVERLAY   /OWNER_UIC /PHYSICAL  /PROTECTION [...]t BACKUP Subtopic?                            tD Why did they call it "/NOINCREMENTAL"? I think /OLDINCREMENTAL would@ have been more appropriate. You have to look in the manual for a decent description.l   BACKUP     /NOINCREMENTAL        Command Qualifier  <      Beginning with OpenVMS Version 7.2, on a save operationA      /NOINCREMENTAL allows you to control the amount of file datarD      that is saved. Use this qualifier only if you are sure that youB      want to save specific files and do not want to save all data.  E Did I read that correctly? "... only if you are sure that you want toeF save specific files and do not want to save all data." Could they be a little more vague? :-)  B So I think they just want to discourage use of it. They don't want& anyone complaining about loss of data.   Disclaimer: JMHO Alan E. Feldmann$ afeldman qiycba gfigroup asdcvai com5 "Help me help you help me help you."  --Bob Pattersond   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 00:35:07 GMT 2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)/ Subject: Re: instruction 'free' in C with VM ost2 Message-ID: <%2cj8.835$fL6.20428@news.cpqcorp.net>   In article <09acdcdd157d36a22540f0d1823a4a84.76015@mygate.mailgate.org>, "Christian Sperandio" <christian.sperandio@cegedim.fr> writes:a  E   VM is an IBM product.  VMS is a name for OpenVMS, a Compaq product.u   :Hi, I wrote a C program like :t :F
 :  char *buf;s ::6 :  system("stormap"); // to test the free memory space :  buf = malloc(10000);M :  system("stormap"); 
 :  free(buf);i :  system("stormap");   D   Exactly what is this "stormap" command?  Is that a IBM VM command?  F   The most obvious OpenVMS DCL command would be "SHOW PROCESS", thoughC   the process virtual memory information is also available via API.1    C :when I run this program, I see the 'free' command doesn't free theo :memory.    F   On OpenVMS, the free() call does release the virtual memory for use I   elsewhere in this application, but it does not free the virtual memory eI   that can be implicitly created from your process virtual address space.hI   Releasing virtual memory from an arbitrary location within the process hF   virtual address space is a rather difficult class of problem.  GivenI   the way virtual memory works, it is not a particularly big win, either.fK   The underlying system service that expands process virtual address space GH   is $expreg -- and the 64-bit services such as $create_region* -- whileE   the $deltva, $exit, and $delprc services release the address space.-  A   If this is an IBM VM question, you might want to ask in anotherm7   newsgroup -- one more specific to IBM VM questions...l  N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------N       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.com    N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 22:45:18 +0000m From: Ricardo B <etralex@ua.pt>  Subject: Re: Itanium troubless6 Message-ID: <pan.2002.03.11.22.45.01.622854.476@ua.pt>  3 On Wed, 20 Feb 2002 20:31:27 +0000, JF Mezei wrote:r   > B > Compaq and HP trust Intel so much that HP got Compaq to murder aD > perfectly good chip that was better than what IA64 could ever be.   I Alpha was good, but didn't sell well enough. It was becoming a burden for  Compaq.b  F > Do we know that the ex-Alpha engineers were assigned to IA64 ? CouldE > they not have been assigned to the 8086 line ? After all, since the G > Pentium III, the 8086 has had more "alpha inside" than IA64 currentlyb > has.  G Why the Pentium III? It has the same architecture as the PentiumPro and 
 Pentium II...e   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 23:05:41 GMTn* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> Subject: Re: Itanium troublesuC Message-ID: <9Laj8.422447$eS3.31877789@bin3.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>   , "Ricardo B" <etralex@ua.pt> wrote in message0 news:pan.2002.03.11.22.45.01.622854.476@ua.pt...5 > On Wed, 20 Feb 2002 20:31:27 +0000, JF Mezei wrote:u >c > >:D > > Compaq and HP trust Intel so much that HP got Compaq to murder aE > > perfectly good chip that was better than what IA64 could ever be.n >sK > Alpha was good, but didn't sell well enough. It was becoming a burden fori	 > Compaq.r  H Really?  Can you support this statement, or are you simply regurgitatingL Compaq's spin?  Leaving aside the fact that Compaq neglected the larger partJ of Alpha's potential, even at Alpha's existing market penetration Compaq'sF own expense, revenue, and profit numbers seem to tell a very differentI story, so if you have new insights to contribute (to the *many* specificsuA already covered here over the past 8+ months) by all means do so.t   - bill   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 03:26:31 GMTe1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> 4 Subject: Re: Microsoft Curries Favor With Undergrads' Message-ID: <3C8D7773.F95C8CB2@fsi.net>o   Patrick Young wrote: > b > "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote in message news:<3C89871D.C4D59551@fsi.net>... > > L > > What will likely be needed is an ISV who is willing to go to the lengthsK > > necessary to provide OpenVMS drivers for the various "widgets" that youm > > will mention in a moment.y > E > Ack! I sure hope not. Folks who are used to developing M$ drivers?.  > SomeD > third party who is contracted to do nothing but that - OK. I'm not > sure@ > that anything else would be good for the reliability aspect of
 > OpenVMS.  E Sorry I took for granted that such would be assumed by the reader. My2 mistake.  F > > Trouble is, new widgets come out everytime you turn around, take aK > > breath, whatever. Unless a mobo can garner a tremendous following, theyi/ > > seem to go very stale inside of six months.a > H > Too true, most of which are obsolete even _BEFORE_ their release date.B > OpenVMS engineering have been shown to pick the winners (ie: PCI	 > widgetspD > that actually have a half decent life time - Intel 82559 ethernet,	 > AdaptecoA > 789x, even the old Trio64 - not to forget the DEC 21x4x cards).a > E > Mobos are another issue and might be a lot harder. Probably another 	 > case ofa$ > we support Mobo made by Intel only  = Actually, I rather expected that OVMS would put forth a "mobosE manifesto": "these are the chipsets we developed for and have tested;y outside of that, YOYO".3  % > - OK, if the price is anywhere neardG > competitive. I'm still not really sure of the implications of EFI andaC > just how far it "abstracts" the Mobo from the O/S (I'm a hands ona > personB > and don't really understand unless I _DO_ - another symptom of aE > failing memory). That and I doubt I will see an Itanic platform forn > some time.  A Same here. I am *VERY* worried that the demand for Alpha will farC outlast the supply.n   -- i David J. Dachteraa dba DJE Systemsf http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/y   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 01:09:50 -0000e: From: "David McKenzie" <david.mckenzie@paradigm-shift.biz># Subject: Off topic (Decnet address)l@ Message-ID: <1015895445.641.0.nnrp-14.c1edba74@news.demon.co.uk>  ! what a great handle I love it :-)m  - but shouldn't it be LOCAL:. GWDVMS::MOELLER ?.    @ "GWDVMS::MOELLER" <moeller@gwdvms.dnet.gwdg.de> wrote in message( news:E16kVk7-0003rC-00@mailer.gwdg.de... > valdemir-@uol.com.br writes:: > > Im my new job I'm using Backup/list/journal to restoreB > > many files from tapes. Is there any way (using system services? > > or lexicals) to access data stored in .bjl files ? I'd like > > > create a procedure or program to access information inside > > these files (.bjl files).n > > Thanks in advance... >.9 > Indeed I have (.MAR and .FOR) programs lying around form8 > reading (and even modifying) .BJL files. Unfortunately6 > they were posted about 12 years ago to INFO-VAX, and7 > are not in a format ready for today's consumption ...t >eF > If noone else can help, let me know and I'll .ZIP the stuff for FTP. >a3 > Wolfgang J. Moeller, Tel. +49 551 201-1516/-1510,d moeller@gwdvms.dnet.gwdg.deeE > GWDG, D-37077 Goettingen, F.R.Germany     |    Disclaimer: No claim.	 intended! : > http://www.gwdg.de/~moeller/ ---- <moeller@gwdg.de> ---- <w.moeller@ieee.org>   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 04:16:37 GMTc1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>-* Subject: Re: OpenVMS Business Solutions CD' Message-ID: <3C8D82B3.B97DD8D6@fsi.net>    Sue Skonetski wrote: > L > Actually according to the folks that do this kind of thing there are 3,000# > partners with 5,000 applications.:  E Is that 5,000 unique applications, or or is there some overlap, as in1F Gribbleniff sells Quibbledunk, but Bizzlebink sells a nearly identicalC Quibbledunk-Plus? (presumably under a suitable licensing agreement)r  G Maybe I should offer another $1,000 U.S. to the first person to compile.= and publish the complete, comprehensive list before "tax day"b (15-Apr-2002).   I should, but I won't.   -- C David J. Dachterav dba DJE Systemsm http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 19:21:32 GMT.- From: "John Hayes" <john@worldwide-wines.moc>d+ Subject: Re: OpenVMS Mail and Exchange 2000-B Message-ID: <0t7j8.6727$3r3.1595050079@newssvr10.news.prodigy.com>  I I am running  Compaq TCP/IP Services for OpenVMS Alpha Version V5.1  on au/ AlphaServer DS20 500 MHz running OpenVMS V7.3 .9   $tcpip show config smtp    SMTP ConfigurationJ                                                                    OptionsL Initial interval:   0 00:30:00.00       Address_max:    16       NOEIGHT_BITH Retry interval:     0 01:00:00.00       Hop_count_max:  16       NORELAYH Maximum interval:   3 00:00:00.00                                HEADERS  G Timeout             Initial       Mail    Receipt       Data  TerminategG   Send:                   5          5          5          3         10    Receive:                5g   Alternate gateway:  SBSSERVERm General gateway:    not defined0  ( Substitute domain:  HIDDEN, mydomain.com Zone:               not definedo   Postmaster:         TCPIP$SMTPC Log file:           SYS$SPECIFIC:[TCPIP$SMTP]TCPIP$SMTP_LOGFILE.LOGt  0 Generic queue       Queues   Participating nodes  % TCPIP$SMTP_WSWC_00     1     mydomaing   $t    L As far as I can see everything is ok, just don't know why it is not working.    A "Tim Llewellyn" <tim.llewellyn@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message * news:3C8CE337.9D3151A8@blueyonder.co.uk... >t >s > John Hayes wrote:I > >rJ > > I have set up a tcpip$que to handle SMTP mail from an Alpha 7.3 server to a+ > > Windows 2000 box running Exchange 2000.e > >o# > > When I  send type the followingo > >bH > > $ mail myfile.txt SMTP%harry@yahoo.com I get the following VMS mail. > >U+ > > ---- Transcript of session follows ----t > >v@ > > 550  %TCPIP-E-SMTP_NOSUCHUSER, no such user, harry@yahoo.com > >w) > > ---- Recipients of this delivery ----h > >v > > harry@yahoo.com  (bounced) > >t$ > > ---- Unsent message follows ---- > > / > > Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 11:46:19 -0500 (EST)C+ > > Message-Id: 02031111461958@mydomain.coml > > From: system@wswc.orgs > > To: harry@yahoo.com " > > X-VMS-To: SMTP%harry@yahoo.com > >g$ > > Any ideas on what I am missing ? >-' > What flavour of TCP/IP? What version?  >aC > If UCX/TCPIP Services post the output from TCPIP SHOW CONFIG SMTPa > for starters.  > B > Is this a new configuration or did it work at some point and has# > subsequently been broken somehow?n > @ > Did you read the docs on SMTP configuration for your IP stack? >i
 > Regards, >e > >s
 > > Thanks > >  > > John >t > -- > Tim.Llewellyn@cableinet.co.uk  >uD > Standard disclaimer applies. My views in no way represent those of# > my employers or service provider.o   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 22:07:37 +0100 9 From: Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com>e+ Subject: Re: OpenVMS Mail and Exchange 2000t' Message-ID: <3C8D1C99.1B3F442C@aaa.com>w   Do :  - $ define/system/exec tcpip$smtp_log_level "5"o" $ @sys$startup:tcpip$smtp:shutdown! $ @sys$startup:tcpip$smtp:startupo  ' try to send a mail and then check your o/ sys$specific:[tcpip$smtp]tcpip$smtp_logfile.logn  A There you should see if your VMS box even tries to make a call toh the SBSSERVER.  G I supose you have check all simple things such as pinging the SBSSERVERn ?p  G You could also try to telnet the smtp server to see that it answers. Ity could look something like :s   $ telnet SBSSERVER /port=25 > %TELNET-I-TRYING, Trying ... xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx    (IP address of
 SBSSERVER)6 %TELNET-I-SESSION, Session 01, host SBSSERVER, port 25G 220 SBSSERVER <the smtp SW on SBSSERVER>; Mon, 11 Mar 2002 22:01:17 +0)a helo <your domain>F 250 SBSSERVER Hello <your domain> [<your IP address>], pleased to meet yout quit  221 SBSSERVER closing connection- %TELNET-S-REMCLOSED, Remote connection closed)6 -TELNET-I-SESSION, Session 01, host SBSSERVER, port 25 $   D Do you have a DNS server specifyed ? TCPIP$SMTP will try to fetch MX recordse8 from the name server and use them as smtp gateways also.   Jan-Erik Sderholm.e   John Hayes wrote:  > K > I am running  Compaq TCP/IP Services for OpenVMS Alpha Version V5.1  on ae1 > AlphaServer DS20 500 MHz running OpenVMS V7.3 .d >  > $tcpip show config smtpw >  > SMTP ConfigurationL >                                                                    OptionsN > Initial interval:   0 00:30:00.00       Address_max:    16       NOEIGHT_BITJ > Retry interval:     0 01:00:00.00       Hop_count_max:  16       NORELAYJ > Maximum interval:   3 00:00:00.00                                HEADERS > I > Timeout             Initial       Mail    Receipt       Data  TerminateoI >   Send:                   5          5          5          3         10g >   Receive:                50 >  > Alternate gateway:  SBSSERVERl! > General gateway:    not definedp > * > Substitute domain:  HIDDEN, mydomain.com! > Zone:               not definedo >   > Postmaster:         TCPIP$SMTPE > Log file:           SYS$SPECIFIC:[TCPIP$SMTP]TCPIP$SMTP_LOGFILE.LOG  > 2 > Generic queue       Queues   Participating nodes > ' > TCPIP$SMTP_WSWC_00     1     mydomaing >  > $  > N > As far as I can see everything is ok, just don't know why it is not working. >r   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 21:31:32 GMTi- From: "John Hayes" <john@worldwide-wines.moc>t+ Subject: Re: OpenVMS Mail and Exchange 2000nB Message-ID: <Um9j8.6753$zj4.1598386305@newssvr10.news.prodigy.com>  F SBSSERVER is the PDC of this group, the alpha is a BDC. I can ping the< SBSSERVER from the alpha system. I can telnet into the port.  ( In the log file, I see a line that reads  0 Unable to relay for JOHN@worldwide-wines.com\d\a    Any ideas ?    3 "Jan-Erik Sderholm" <aaa@aaa.com> wrote in messaged! news:3C8D1C99.1B3F442C@aaa.com...s > Do : >0/ > $ define/system/exec tcpip$smtp_log_level "5" $ > $ @sys$startup:tcpip$smtp:shutdown# > $ @sys$startup:tcpip$smtp:startupo >w( > try to send a mail and then check your1 > sys$specific:[tcpip$smtp]tcpip$smtp_logfile.log- >aC > There you should see if your VMS box even tries to make a call to> > the SBSSERVER. >uI > I supose you have check all simple things such as pinging the SBSSERVERT > ?a >iI > You could also try to telnet the smtp server to see that it answers. Itn > could look something like :t >e > $ telnet SBSSERVER /port=25p@ > %TELNET-I-TRYING, Trying ... xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx    (IP address of > SBSSERVER)8 > %TELNET-I-SESSION, Session 01, host SBSSERVER, port 25I > 220 SBSSERVER <the smtp SW on SBSSERVER>; Mon, 11 Mar 2002 22:01:17 +0)i > helo <your domain>H > 250 SBSSERVER Hello <your domain> [<your IP address>], pleased to meet > youA > quit" > 221 SBSSERVER closing connection/ > %TELNET-S-REMCLOSED, Remote connection closed 8 > -TELNET-I-SESSION, Session 01, host SBSSERVER, port 25 > $  > F > Do you have a DNS server specifyed ? TCPIP$SMTP will try to fetch MX	 > records : > from the name server and use them as smtp gateways also. >k > Jan-Erik Sderholm.  >e > John Hayes wrote:e > > K > > I am running  Compaq TCP/IP Services for OpenVMS Alpha Version V5.1  onE aT3 > > AlphaServer DS20 500 MHz running OpenVMS V7.3 .p > >  > > $tcpip show config smtpi > >  > > SMTP Configuration > >t Options > > > Initial interval:   0 00:30:00.00       Address_max:    16 NOEIGHT_BITaL > > Retry interval:     0 01:00:00.00       Hop_count_max:  16       NORELAYL > > Maximum interval:   3 00:00:00.00                                HEADERS > >aK > > Timeout             Initial       Mail    Receipt       Data  TerminatemK > >   Send:                   5          5          5          3         10' > >   Receive:                5l > >f! > > Alternate gateway:  SBSSERVER # > > General gateway:    not definedd > >c, > > Substitute domain:  HIDDEN, mydomain.com# > > Zone:               not defined- > >-" > > Postmaster:         TCPIP$SMTPG > > Log file:           SYS$SPECIFIC:[TCPIP$SMTP]TCPIP$SMTP_LOGFILE.LOGi > >c4 > > Generic queue       Queues   Participating nodes > >4) > > TCPIP$SMTP_WSWC_00     1     mydomaind > >6 > > $0 > >aG > > As far as I can see everything is ok, just don't know why it is noti working. > >r   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 22:37:49 +0100u9 From: Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com>s+ Subject: Re: OpenVMS Mail and Exchange 2000e' Message-ID: <3C8D23AD.B8D0B6B1@aaa.com>   4 Is it the SBSSERVER that says "Unable to relay..." ?  > Could it be that relaying is disabled on SBSSERVER ? (Not that2 I know wither one can do that or how it's done...)  > Is there any other system (VMS, UNIX or something else running< true smtp traffic) that uses SBSSERVER to relay it's mails ?  	 Jan-Erik.    PS.e? The PDC/BDC things are NT-domain specific, not ? I can't see ite( having anything to do with smtp traffic. DS.      John Hayes wrote:p > H > SBSSERVER is the PDC of this group, the alpha is a BDC. I can ping the> > SBSSERVER from the alpha system. I can telnet into the port. > * > In the log file, I see a line that reads > 2 > Unable to relay for JOHN@worldwide-wines.com\d\a >  >  Any ideas ? >    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 23:14:27 +0100i9 From: Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com>s+ Subject: Re: OpenVMS Mail and Exchange 2000 ' Message-ID: <3C8D2C43.FF1DEB4A@aaa.com>n  9 Well, it's obviously SBSSERVER that says "Unable to relaye for JOHN@worldwide-wines.com".  : Can you send to "JOHN@worldwide-wines.com" using any other mail tool ?o  = Can any other system send to "JOHN@worldwide-wines.com" using- SBSSERVER as mailgate ?>  4 Is it just this user or can't you sent to any user ?  $ Your "similar system", what's that ?0 Another VMS system using SBSSERVER as mailgate ?  ? Does the smtp-server on SBSSERVER have any kind of logging thatfC can be checked ? Someware there should be some explenation on *why*- the mail can't be relayed.  = Well, guess I'm more or less out of "tip-of-the-day" here :-)   	 Jan-Erik.:   John Hayes wrote:e > I > Below is part of the log. I am not sure how to turn off relaying on the3H > windows 2000 server. I have a similar system working but can't see any > differences between the two. > - > Connected to SMTP server SBSSERVER.WSWC.ORGcF > recv buf=220 sbsserver.wswcgroup.local Microsoft ESMTP MAIL Service,! > send buf=HELO wswc.wswc.org\d\a = > recv buf=250 sbsserver.wswcgroup.local Hello [10.0.0.3]\d\aC* > send buf=MAIL FROM:<system@wswc.org>\d\a5 > recv buf=250 2.1.0 system@wswc.org....Sender OK\d\a81 > send buf=RCPT TO:<JOHN@worldwide-wines.com>\d\a E > recv buf=550 5.7.1 Unable to relay for JOHN@worldwide-wines.com\d\ai > send buf=QUIT\d\aIK > recv buf=221 2.0.0 sbsserver.wswcgroup.local Service closing transmissionn
 > channel\d\ao   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 21:58:08 GMT - From: "John Hayes" <john@worldwide-wines.moc>e+ Subject: Re: OpenVMS Mail and Exchange 2000 B Message-ID: <QL9j8.6758$RF4.1599772816@newssvr10.news.prodigy.com>  G Below is part of the log. I am not sure how to turn off relaying on theHF windows 2000 server. I have a similar system working but can't see any differences between the two.  + Connected to SMTP server SBSSERVER.WSWC.ORGuL #smtp_sender_cmd\1158 exiting connect_to_server st: 1,iosb$st: 1,iosb$count: 0,in
 osb$ext_st: 0i3 #smtp_sender_cmd\1204 entering smtp_sender_greetings #smtp_net_util\329= smtp_read_reply,fd=4,buf=,len=4096,cookie=1,timemin=5,timenowt  11-MAR-2002 16:23:12.081 #smtp_read_reply:B4 select: vaxc$errno=1, errno=0v4 #smtp_read_reply:After select: vaxc$errno=1, errno=0  #smtp_read_reply:select:status=1) #smtp_read_reply:rmask=16,wmask=0,emask=0 . #smtp_read_reply:recv:status=127, vaxc$errno=1D recv buf=220 sbsserver.wswcgroup.local Microsoft ESMTP MAIL Service, Version: 5. : 0.2195.3779 ready at  Mon, 11 Mar 2002 16:13:34 -0500 \d\a #smtp_read_reply:end_of_reply=1t #smtp_read_reply:returning 1= #smtp_sender_cmd\1270 smtp_sender_greeting exiting: status: 1t/ #smtp_sender_cmd\1746 Entering smtp_sender_helon send buf=HELO wswc.wswc.org\d\a1 #smtp_net_util\329= smtp_read_reply,fd=4,buf=,len=4096,cookie=1,timemin=5,timenown  11-MAR-2002 16:23:12.481 #smtp_read_reply:B4 select: vaxc$errno=1, errno=0o4 #smtp_read_reply:After select: vaxc$errno=1, errno=0  #smtp_read_reply:select:status=1) #smtp_read_reply:rmask=16,wmask=0,emask=0 - #smtp_read_reply:recv:status=48, vaxc$errno=1o; recv buf=250 sbsserver.wswcgroup.local Hello [10.0.0.3]\d\au #smtp_read_reply:end_of_reply=1p #smtp_read_reply:returning 19 #smtp_sender_cmd\1819 smtp_sender_helo exiting: status: 1M/ #smtp_sender_cmd\1861 Entering smtp_sender_mailo? #smtp$util\5692 strip_smtp_jacket Input string: system@wswc.orgs@ #smtp$util\5714 strip_smtp_jacket Output string: system@wswc.org( send buf=MAIL FROM:<system@wswc.org>\d\a #smtp_net_util\329= smtp_read_reply,fd=4,buf=,len=4096,cookie=1,timemin=5,timenowi  11-MAR-2002 16:23:12.951 #smtp_read_reply:B4 select: vaxc$errno=1, errno=0a4 #smtp_read_reply:After select: vaxc$errno=1, errno=0  #smtp_read_reply:select:status=1) #smtp_read_reply:rmask=16,wmask=0,emask=0d- #smtp_read_reply:recv:status=40, vaxc$errno=1e3 recv buf=250 2.1.0 system@wswc.org....Sender OK\d\ap #smtp_read_reply:end_of_reply=1c #smtp_read_reply:returning 19 #smtp_sender_cmd\1966 smtp_sender_mail exiting: status: 1c/ #smtp_sender_cmd\2037 Entering smtp_sender_rcptd/ send buf=RCPT TO:<JOHN@worldwide-wines.com>\d\aw #smtp_net_util\329= smtp_read_reply,fd=4,buf=,len=4096,cookie=1,timemin=5,timenowa  11-MAR-2002 16:23:13.351 #smtp_read_reply:B4 select: vaxc$errno=1, errno=0s4 #smtp_read_reply:After select: vaxc$errno=1, errno=0  #smtp_read_reply:select:status=1) #smtp_read_reply:rmask=16,wmask=0,emask=0a- #smtp_read_reply:recv:status=56, vaxc$errno=1RC recv buf=550 5.7.1 Unable to relay for JOHN@worldwide-wines.com\d\a  #smtp_read_reply:end_of_reply=1J #smtp_read_reply:returning 1> #smtp_sender_cmd\2294 smtp_sender: smtp_sender_rcpt ext_st:550; #smtp_sender_cmd\2297 smtp_sender: smtp_sender_rcpt IOSB:18 < #smtp_sender\552 TCPIP$SMTP_SEND_MAIL after smtp_sender_rcpt a_ercode:1240402185 #smtp_sender_cmd\1559 Entering smtp_sender_quit. fd=4g send buf=QUIT\d\a4 #smtp_net_util\329= smtp_read_reply,fd=4,buf=,len=4096,cookie=1,timemin=10,timeno  w 11-MAR-2002 16:23:13.81V1 #smtp_read_reply:B4 select: vaxc$errno=1, errno=0m4 #smtp_read_reply:After select: vaxc$errno=1, errno=0  #smtp_read_reply:select:status=1) #smtp_read_reply:rmask=16,wmask=0,emask=0s- #smtp_read_reply:recv:status=74, vaxc$errno=1lI recv buf=221 2.0.0 sbsserver.wswcgroup.local Service closing transmission  channe l\d\ar #smtp_read_reply:end_of_reply=1  #smtp_read_reply:returning 10 #smtp_sender_cmd\1660 Entering smtp_sender_close5 #smtp_sender_cmd\1673 Calling shutdown for socket = 4vI #smtp_sender\665 TCPIP$SMTP_SEND_MAIL setting domain 'done' bit to      1)I #smtp_sender\668 TCPIP$SMTP_SEND_MAIL setting domain 'delivered' bit to 0A) #smtp$send_remote\404:SMTP_SEND_MAIL st:1a2 #smtp$do_task\1502 smtp$do_task:smtp$send_remote=1> #smtp$do_task\1516:sending to worldwide-wines.com is done st:1( #smtp$do_task\1337 Starting second pass.3 #smtp$do_task\1352 read domain: worldwide-wines.comn  3 "Jan-Erik Sderholm" <aaa@aaa.com> wrote in message ! news:3C8D23AD.B8D0B6B1@aaa.com...-6 > Is it the SBSSERVER that says "Unable to relay..." ? >-@ > Could it be that relaying is disabled on SBSSERVER ? (Not that4 > I know wither one can do that or how it's done...) >R@ > Is there any other system (VMS, UNIX or something else running> > true smtp traffic) that uses SBSSERVER to relay it's mails ? >o > Jan-Erik.h >k > PS.tA > The PDC/BDC things are NT-domain specific, not ? I can't see ita* > having anything to do with smtp traffic. > DS.e >p >s > John Hayes wrote:l > >bJ > > SBSSERVER is the PDC of this group, the alpha is a BDC. I can ping the@ > > SBSSERVER from the alpha system. I can telnet into the port. > >h, > > In the log file, I see a line that reads > > 4 > > Unable to relay for JOHN@worldwide-wines.com\d\a > >  > >  Any ideas ? > >u   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 23:39:57 +0100d9 From: Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com>p+ Subject: Re: OpenVMS Mail and Exchange 2000-' Message-ID: <3C8D323D.BA02C58B@aaa.com>2  A As an earlier post showed, SMTP in the VMS box is set to NORELAY.cB And, the "can not relay" message comes from the SBSSERVER, not theC VMS box. I think the answer is to be found on SBSSERVER to why this  mail can not be forwared.V   Jan-Erik Sderholm.h   Michael Austin wrote:i > J > what does the RELAY option in "TCPIP SHOW CONFIG SMTP" show?  If this isE > set to relay and depending upon how your network is configured, youa> > could be opening yourself up to being a spam-relay center... >B   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 17:54:07 -0500Y1 From: Michael Austin <maustin@firstdbasource.com> + Subject: Re: OpenVMS Mail and Exchange 2000 2 Message-ID: <3C8D358F.8A0D1595@firstdbasource.com>  F I am not that familiar with the SBSSERVER, but if he is trying to sendH SMTP mail via mail with SMTP% he will use the setting in TCPIP.  here is how you can test it.   $TCPIP DISABLE SERVICE SMTPN$ $TCPIP SET CONFIG SMTP /OPTION=RELAY $TCPIP ENABLE SERVICE SMTP $MAIL NL: /SUBJ="TEST" smtp%"JOHN@worldwide-wines.com"$ $TCPIP DISABLE SERVICE SMTP & $TCPIP SET CONFIG SMTP /OPTION=NORELAY $TCPIP ENABLE SERVICE SMTP   Did it work?     Jan-Erik Sderholm wrote:  > C > As an earlier post showed, SMTP in the VMS box is set to NORELAY.mD > And, the "can not relay" message comes from the SBSSERVER, not theE > VMS box. I think the answer is to be found on SBSSERVER to why thisr > mail can not be forwared.u >  > Jan-Erik Sderholm.a >  > Michael Austin wrote:  > >wL > > what does the RELAY option in "TCPIP SHOW CONFIG SMTP" show?  If this isG > > set to relay and depending upon how your network is configured, youS@ > > could be opening yourself up to being a spam-relay center... > >5   -- I Regards,  7 Michael Austin            Registered Linux User #261163c7 First DBA Source, Inc.    http://www.firstdbasource.com  Sr. Consultant 704-947-1089 (Office)g 704-236-4377 (Mobile)    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 00:09:11 +010099 From: Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com>@+ Subject: Re: OpenVMS Mail and Exchange 2000m' Message-ID: <3C8D3917.6667A579@aaa.com>g  A Yes, but, isn't "relaying" when *both* the sender and the addressS> to send to are "outside" of the local box. In the actual case,? the sender is local, so he's not relaying and the RELAY/NORELAYp6 param in TCPIP$SMTP have nothing to do with this case.    Or am I missing something here ?B Maybe the mail transport SMTP% is using the "server" side of SMTP 3 to get the mails from VMSmail into the smtp world ?o  A Anyway, I'v never had to change NORELAY to RELAY to send "normal"  mails out from the VMS box.e  E And, if I'm not wrong, it was the SBSSERVER that sad "can not relay",0 and:G I hardly think that the other server would care about the configuration  on the VMS box, would it ?   h	 Jan-Erik.    Michael Austin wrote:F > H > I am not that familiar with the SBSSERVER, but if he is trying to sendJ > SMTP mail via mail with SMTP% he will use the setting in TCPIP.  here is > how you can test it. >  > $TCPIP DISABLE SERVICE SMTPp& > $TCPIP SET CONFIG SMTP /OPTION=RELAY > $TCPIP ENABLE SERVICE SMTP > $MAIL NL: /SUBJ="TEST"! > smtp%"JOHN@worldwide-wines.com"  > $TCPIP DISABLE SERVICE SMTP ( > $TCPIP SET CONFIG SMTP /OPTION=NORELAY > $TCPIP ENABLE SERVICE SMTP >  > Did it work? >r   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 17:36:26 -0500E1 From: Michael Austin <maustin@firstdbasource.com>s+ Subject: Re: OpenVMS Mail and Exchange 200002 Message-ID: <3C8D316A.6CACB639@firstdbasource.com>  H what does the RELAY option in "TCPIP SHOW CONFIG SMTP" show?  If this isC set to relay and depending upon how your network is configured, yout< could be opening yourself up to being a spam-relay center...     John Hayes wrote:e > I > Below is part of the log. I am not sure how to turn off relaying on the H > windows 2000 server. I have a similar system working but can't see any > differences between the two. > - > Connected to SMTP server SBSSERVER.WSWC.ORGyN > #smtp_sender_cmd\1158 exiting connect_to_server st: 1,iosb$st: 1,iosb$count: > 0,io > osb$ext_st: 0e5 > #smtp_sender_cmd\1204 entering smtp_sender_greetingo > #smtp_net_util\329? > smtp_read_reply,fd=4,buf=,len=4096,cookie=1,timemin=5,timenow  >  11-MAR-2002 16:23:12.083 > #smtp_read_reply:B4 select: vaxc$errno=1, errno=0_6 > #smtp_read_reply:After select: vaxc$errno=1, errno=0" > #smtp_read_reply:select:status=1+ > #smtp_read_reply:rmask=16,wmask=0,emask=000 > #smtp_read_reply:recv:status=127, vaxc$errno=1F > recv buf=220 sbsserver.wswcgroup.local Microsoft ESMTP MAIL Service,
 > Version: 5. < > 0.2195.3779 ready at  Mon, 11 Mar 2002 16:13:34 -0500 \d\a! > #smtp_read_reply:end_of_reply=1  > #smtp_read_reply:returning 1? > #smtp_sender_cmd\1270 smtp_sender_greeting exiting: status: 1I1 > #smtp_sender_cmd\1746 Entering smtp_sender_heloe! > send buf=HELO wswc.wswc.org\d\a$ > #smtp_net_util\329? > smtp_read_reply,fd=4,buf=,len=4096,cookie=1,timemin=5,timenowe >  11-MAR-2002 16:23:12.483 > #smtp_read_reply:B4 select: vaxc$errno=1, errno=0m6 > #smtp_read_reply:After select: vaxc$errno=1, errno=0" > #smtp_read_reply:select:status=1+ > #smtp_read_reply:rmask=16,wmask=0,emask=0-/ > #smtp_read_reply:recv:status=48, vaxc$errno=1 = > recv buf=250 sbsserver.wswcgroup.local Hello [10.0.0.3]\d\aM! > #smtp_read_reply:end_of_reply=1  > #smtp_read_reply:returning 1; > #smtp_sender_cmd\1819 smtp_sender_helo exiting: status: 1 1 > #smtp_sender_cmd\1861 Entering smtp_sender_mailtA > #smtp$util\5692 strip_smtp_jacket Input string: system@wswc.orgsB > #smtp$util\5714 strip_smtp_jacket Output string: system@wswc.org* > send buf=MAIL FROM:<system@wswc.org>\d\a > #smtp_net_util\329? > smtp_read_reply,fd=4,buf=,len=4096,cookie=1,timemin=5,timenow  >  11-MAR-2002 16:23:12.953 > #smtp_read_reply:B4 select: vaxc$errno=1, errno=0n6 > #smtp_read_reply:After select: vaxc$errno=1, errno=0" > #smtp_read_reply:select:status=1+ > #smtp_read_reply:rmask=16,wmask=0,emask=0 / > #smtp_read_reply:recv:status=40, vaxc$errno=1r5 > recv buf=250 2.1.0 system@wswc.org....Sender OK\d\ae! > #smtp_read_reply:end_of_reply=1u > #smtp_read_reply:returning 1; > #smtp_sender_cmd\1966 smtp_sender_mail exiting: status: 1 1 > #smtp_sender_cmd\2037 Entering smtp_sender_rcptt1 > send buf=RCPT TO:<JOHN@worldwide-wines.com>\d\aR > #smtp_net_util\329? > smtp_read_reply,fd=4,buf=,len=4096,cookie=1,timemin=5,timenowS >  11-MAR-2002 16:23:13.353 > #smtp_read_reply:B4 select: vaxc$errno=1, errno=0o6 > #smtp_read_reply:After select: vaxc$errno=1, errno=0" > #smtp_read_reply:select:status=1+ > #smtp_read_reply:rmask=16,wmask=0,emask=0u/ > #smtp_read_reply:recv:status=56, vaxc$errno=1-E > recv buf=550 5.7.1 Unable to relay for JOHN@worldwide-wines.com\d\a,! > #smtp_read_reply:end_of_reply=1  > #smtp_read_reply:returning 1@ > #smtp_sender_cmd\2294 smtp_sender: smtp_sender_rcpt ext_st:550= > #smtp_sender_cmd\2297 smtp_sender: smtp_sender_rcpt IOSB:18d> > #smtp_sender\552 TCPIP$SMTP_SEND_MAIL after smtp_sender_rcpt > a_ercode:1240402187 > #smtp_sender_cmd\1559 Entering smtp_sender_quit. fd=40 > send buf=QUIT\d\aV > #smtp_net_util\329? > smtp_read_reply,fd=4,buf=,len=4096,cookie=1,timemin=10,timenoi > w 11-MAR-2002 16:23:13.81 3 > #smtp_read_reply:B4 select: vaxc$errno=1, errno=0 6 > #smtp_read_reply:After select: vaxc$errno=1, errno=0" > #smtp_read_reply:select:status=1+ > #smtp_read_reply:rmask=16,wmask=0,emask=0 / > #smtp_read_reply:recv:status=74, vaxc$errno=1nK > recv buf=221 2.0.0 sbsserver.wswcgroup.local Service closing transmission  > channe > l\d\a ! > #smtp_read_reply:end_of_reply=1  > #smtp_read_reply:returning 12 > #smtp_sender_cmd\1660 Entering smtp_sender_close7 > #smtp_sender_cmd\1673 Calling shutdown for socket = 4IK > #smtp_sender\665 TCPIP$SMTP_SEND_MAIL setting domain 'done' bit to      1rK > #smtp_sender\668 TCPIP$SMTP_SEND_MAIL setting domain 'delivered' bit to 0S+ > #smtp$send_remote\404:SMTP_SEND_MAIL st:1 4 > #smtp$do_task\1502 smtp$do_task:smtp$send_remote=1@ > #smtp$do_task\1516:sending to worldwide-wines.com is done st:1* > #smtp$do_task\1337 Starting second pass.5 > #smtp$do_task\1352 read domain: worldwide-wines.com- > 5 > "Jan-Erik Sderholm" <aaa@aaa.com> wrote in messager# > news:3C8D23AD.B8D0B6B1@aaa.com...a8 > > Is it the SBSSERVER that says "Unable to relay..." ? > >-B > > Could it be that relaying is disabled on SBSSERVER ? (Not that6 > > I know wither one can do that or how it's done...) > > B > > Is there any other system (VMS, UNIX or something else running@ > > true smtp traffic) that uses SBSSERVER to relay it's mails ? > >i
 > > Jan-Erik.r > >) > > PS.sC > > The PDC/BDC things are NT-domain specific, not ? I can't see ith, > > having anything to do with smtp traffic. > > DS.i > >y > >  > > John Hayes wrote:. > > > L > > > SBSSERVER is the PDC of this group, the alpha is a BDC. I can ping theB > > > SBSSERVER from the alpha system. I can telnet into the port. > > >o. > > > In the log file, I see a line that reads > > >a6 > > > Unable to relay for JOHN@worldwide-wines.com\d\a > > >  > > >  Any ideas ? > > >-   -- - Regards,  7 Michael Austin            Registered Linux User #261163-7 First DBA Source, Inc.    http://www.firstdbasource.com: Sr. Consultant 704-947-1089 (Office)e 704-236-4377 (Mobile)D   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 15:49:31 -0800e# From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com>a+ Subject: RE: OpenVMS Mail and Exchange 2000g9 Message-ID: <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIMEECEFAA.tom@kednos.com>O  J I'm perhaps in thin ice here, but can't you set RELAY,provided SMTP.CONFIG is appropRIATELY SET UP?   > -----Original Message-----: > From: Michael Austin [mailto:maustin@firstdbasource.com]& > Sent: Monday, March 11, 2002 2:36 PM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comt- > Subject: Re: OpenVMS Mail and Exchange 2000  >e >pJ > what does the RELAY option in "TCPIP SHOW CONFIG SMTP" show?  If this isE > set to relay and depending upon how your network is configured, youe> > could be opening yourself up to being a spam-relay center... >a >g > John Hayes wrote:0 > >rK > > Below is part of the log. I am not sure how to turn off relaying on the J > > windows 2000 server. I have a similar system working but can't see any  > > differences between the two. > >M/ > > Connected to SMTP server SBSSERVER.WSWC.ORG\B > > #smtp_sender_cmd\1158 exiting connect_to_server st: 1,iosb$st: > 1,iosb$count:R > > 0,im > > osb$ext_st: 0e7 > > #smtp_sender_cmd\1204 entering smtp_sender_greetingd > > #smtp_net_util\329A > > smtp_read_reply,fd=4,buf=,len=4096,cookie=1,timemin=5,timenow@ > >  11-MAR-2002 16:23:12.085 > > #smtp_read_reply:B4 select: vaxc$errno=1, errno=0o8 > > #smtp_read_reply:After select: vaxc$errno=1, errno=0$ > > #smtp_read_reply:select:status=1- > > #smtp_read_reply:rmask=16,wmask=0,emask=0a2 > > #smtp_read_reply:recv:status=127, vaxc$errno=1H > > recv buf=220 sbsserver.wswcgroup.local Microsoft ESMTP MAIL Service, > > Version: 5.o> > > 0.2195.3779 ready at  Mon, 11 Mar 2002 16:13:34 -0500 \d\a# > > #smtp_read_reply:end_of_reply=1I  > > #smtp_read_reply:returning 1A > > #smtp_sender_cmd\1270 smtp_sender_greeting exiting: status: 1e3 > > #smtp_sender_cmd\1746 Entering smtp_sender_helon# > > send buf=HELO wswc.wswc.org\d\ai > > #smtp_net_util\329A > > smtp_read_reply,fd=4,buf=,len=4096,cookie=1,timemin=5,timenowt > >  11-MAR-2002 16:23:12.485 > > #smtp_read_reply:B4 select: vaxc$errno=1, errno=0A8 > > #smtp_read_reply:After select: vaxc$errno=1, errno=0$ > > #smtp_read_reply:select:status=1- > > #smtp_read_reply:rmask=16,wmask=0,emask=0s1 > > #smtp_read_reply:recv:status=48, vaxc$errno=1m? > > recv buf=250 sbsserver.wswcgroup.local Hello [10.0.0.3]\d\a2# > > #smtp_read_reply:end_of_reply=1t  > > #smtp_read_reply:returning 1= > > #smtp_sender_cmd\1819 smtp_sender_helo exiting: status: 1s3 > > #smtp_sender_cmd\1861 Entering smtp_sender_mailrC > > #smtp$util\5692 strip_smtp_jacket Input string: system@wswc.orgtD > > #smtp$util\5714 strip_smtp_jacket Output string: system@wswc.org, > > send buf=MAIL FROM:<system@wswc.org>\d\a > > #smtp_net_util\329A > > smtp_read_reply,fd=4,buf=,len=4096,cookie=1,timemin=5,timenowr > >  11-MAR-2002 16:23:12.955 > > #smtp_read_reply:B4 select: vaxc$errno=1, errno=0e8 > > #smtp_read_reply:After select: vaxc$errno=1, errno=0$ > > #smtp_read_reply:select:status=1- > > #smtp_read_reply:rmask=16,wmask=0,emask=021 > > #smtp_read_reply:recv:status=40, vaxc$errno=1 7 > > recv buf=250 2.1.0 system@wswc.org....Sender OK\d\ai# > > #smtp_read_reply:end_of_reply=1e  > > #smtp_read_reply:returning 1= > > #smtp_sender_cmd\1966 smtp_sender_mail exiting: status: 1i3 > > #smtp_sender_cmd\2037 Entering smtp_sender_rcptt3 > > send buf=RCPT TO:<JOHN@worldwide-wines.com>\d\ao > > #smtp_net_util\329A > > smtp_read_reply,fd=4,buf=,len=4096,cookie=1,timemin=5,timenow, > >  11-MAR-2002 16:23:13.355 > > #smtp_read_reply:B4 select: vaxc$errno=1, errno=0e8 > > #smtp_read_reply:After select: vaxc$errno=1, errno=0$ > > #smtp_read_reply:select:status=1- > > #smtp_read_reply:rmask=16,wmask=0,emask=0,1 > > #smtp_read_reply:recv:status=56, vaxc$errno=1vG > > recv buf=550 5.7.1 Unable to relay for JOHN@worldwide-wines.com\d\a_# > > #smtp_read_reply:end_of_reply=1d  > > #smtp_read_reply:returning 1B > > #smtp_sender_cmd\2294 smtp_sender: smtp_sender_rcpt ext_st:550? > > #smtp_sender_cmd\2297 smtp_sender: smtp_sender_rcpt IOSB:18s@ > > #smtp_sender\552 TCPIP$SMTP_SEND_MAIL after smtp_sender_rcpt > > a_ercode:1240402189 > > #smtp_sender_cmd\1559 Entering smtp_sender_quit. fd=4  > > send buf=QUIT\d\a  > > #smtp_net_util\329A > > smtp_read_reply,fd=4,buf=,len=4096,cookie=1,timemin=10,timenot > > w 11-MAR-2002 16:23:13.81m5 > > #smtp_read_reply:B4 select: vaxc$errno=1, errno=0 8 > > #smtp_read_reply:After select: vaxc$errno=1, errno=0$ > > #smtp_read_reply:select:status=1- > > #smtp_read_reply:rmask=16,wmask=0,emask=0d1 > > #smtp_read_reply:recv:status=74, vaxc$errno=10@ > > recv buf=221 2.0.0 sbsserver.wswcgroup.local Service closing > transmission
 > > channe	 > > l\d\ae# > > #smtp_read_reply:end_of_reply=18  > > #smtp_read_reply:returning 14 > > #smtp_sender_cmd\1660 Entering smtp_sender_close9 > > #smtp_sender_cmd\1673 Calling shutdown for socket = 4iC > > #smtp_sender\665 TCPIP$SMTP_SEND_MAIL setting domain 'done' bit  > to      1 8 > > #smtp_sender\668 TCPIP$SMTP_SEND_MAIL setting domain > 'delivered' bit to 0- > > #smtp$send_remote\404:SMTP_SEND_MAIL st:1=6 > > #smtp$do_task\1502 smtp$do_task:smtp$send_remote=1B > > #smtp$do_task\1516:sending to worldwide-wines.com is done st:1, > > #smtp$do_task\1337 Starting second pass.7 > > #smtp$do_task\1352 read domain: worldwide-wines.comr > >17 > > "Jan-Erik Sderholm" <aaa@aaa.com> wrote in messagel% > > news:3C8D23AD.B8D0B6B1@aaa.com...d: > > > Is it the SBSSERVER that says "Unable to relay..." ? > > >sD > > > Could it be that relaying is disabled on SBSSERVER ? (Not that8 > > > I know wither one can do that or how it's done...) > > >2D > > > Is there any other system (VMS, UNIX or something else runningB > > > true smtp traffic) that uses SBSSERVER to relay it's mails ? > > >$ > > > Jan-Erik.  > > > 	 > > > PS.iE > > > The PDC/BDC things are NT-domain specific, not ? I can't see it3. > > > having anything to do with smtp traffic.	 > > > DS.y > > >l > > >l > > > John Hayes wrote:b > > > >lA > > > > SBSSERVER is the PDC of this group, the alpha is a BDC. I  > can ping theD > > > > SBSSERVER from the alpha system. I can telnet into the port. > > > >i0 > > > > In the log file, I see a line that reads > > > >m8 > > > > Unable to relay for JOHN@worldwide-wines.com\d\a > > > >o > > > >  Any ideas ? > > > >e >a > --
 > Regards, >o9 > Michael Austin            Registered Linux User #261163l9 > First DBA Source, Inc.    http://www.firstdbasource.coms > Sr. Consultant > 704-947-1089 (Office)t > 704-236-4377 (Mobile)l >    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 16:21:08 -0800 # From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com>w+ Subject: RE: OpenVMS Mail and Exchange 2000 9 Message-ID: <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIAEEFEFAA.tom@kednos.com>:  @ Well I experimented on my system which is running 5.1 under 7.3.A If relay is turned off I am unable to send mail from a pop client8K running Outlook on W2K, but I can receive mail.  To avoid open relay I have  Good-ClientsF set up in SMTP.CONFIG to list the IP's on our network and some others.     > -----Original Message-----: > From: Michael Austin [mailto:maustin@firstdbasource.com]& > Sent: Monday, March 11, 2002 2:54 PM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com - > Subject: Re: OpenVMS Mail and Exchange 2000o >  >tH > I am not that familiar with the SBSSERVER, but if he is trying to sendJ > SMTP mail via mail with SMTP% he will use the setting in TCPIP.  here is > how you can test it. >- > $TCPIP DISABLE SERVICE SMTP:& > $TCPIP SET CONFIG SMTP /OPTION=RELAY > $TCPIP ENABLE SERVICE SMTP > $MAIL NL: /SUBJ="TEST"! > smtp%"JOHN@worldwide-wines.com"8 > $TCPIP DISABLE SERVICE SMTP ( > $TCPIP SET CONFIG SMTP /OPTION=NORELAY > $TCPIP ENABLE SERVICE SMTP >M > Did it work? >t > Jan-Erik Sderholm wrote:n > >TE > > As an earlier post showed, SMTP in the VMS box is set to NORELAY.TF > > And, the "can not relay" message comes from the SBSSERVER, not theG > > VMS box. I think the answer is to be found on SBSSERVER to why thisS > > mail can not be forwared.P > >N > > Jan-Erik Sderholm.V > >M > > Michael Austin wrote:- > > >dB > > > what does the RELAY option in "TCPIP SHOW CONFIG SMTP" show? > If this isI > > > set to relay and depending upon how your network is configured, youeB > > > could be opening yourself up to being a spam-relay center... > > >  >l > --
 > Regards, >u9 > Michael Austin            Registered Linux User #261163 9 > First DBA Source, Inc.    http://www.firstdbasource.comS > Sr. Consultant > 704-947-1089 (Office)d > 704-236-4377 (Mobile)n >o   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 21:01:46 -0500l1 From: Michael Austin <maustin@firstdbasource.com>t+ Subject: Re: OpenVMS Mail and Exchange 2000 2 Message-ID: <3C8D618A.FB2C3DEF@firstdbasource.com>  F When using POP, both sender and receiver ARE outside of the box. If heH configures GOOD-CLIENTS then all others should fail closing the relay asG a spam relay.  I am in the process of upgrading to TCPIP V5.1 to see ifeG I can make my box a bit more secure. I currently have it set to norelay ? and have the POP client use my ISP box to forward the messages.S       Jan-Erik Sderholm wrote:  > C > Yes, but, isn't "relaying" when *both* the sender and the address @ > to send to are "outside" of the local box. In the actual case,A > the sender is local, so he's not relaying and the RELAY/NORELAYa8 > param in TCPIP$SMTP have nothing to do with this case. > " > Or am I missing something here ?C > Maybe the mail transport SMTP% is using the "server" side of SMTPm5 > to get the mails from VMSmail into the smtp world ?r > C > Anyway, I'v never had to change NORELAY to RELAY to send "normal"k > mails out from the VMS box.r > G > And, if I'm not wrong, it was the SBSSERVER that sad "can not relay",i > anduI > I hardly think that the other server would care about the configuration  > on > the VMS box, would it ?a >  > Jan-Erik.w >  > Michael Austin wrote:  > > J > > I am not that familiar with the SBSSERVER, but if he is trying to sendL > > SMTP mail via mail with SMTP% he will use the setting in TCPIP.  here is > > how you can test it. > >n > > $TCPIP DISABLE SERVICE SMTPE( > > $TCPIP SET CONFIG SMTP /OPTION=RELAY > > $TCPIP ENABLE SERVICE SMTP > > $MAIL NL: /SUBJ="TEST"# > > smtp%"JOHN@worldwide-wines.com"  > > $TCPIP DISABLE SERVICE SMTP0* > > $TCPIP SET CONFIG SMTP /OPTION=NORELAY > > $TCPIP ENABLE SERVICE SMTP > >i > > Did it work? > >e   -- D Regards,  7 Michael Austin            Registered Linux User #261163n7 First DBA Source, Inc.    http://www.firstdbasource.coml Sr. Consultant 704-947-1089 (Office)i 704-236-4377 (Mobile)l   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 21:11:17 -0800o% From: Dean Woodward <deanw@rdrop.com> U Subject: OT: TANSTAAFL (was Re: Viability of a Commercial ISO-9960 formatter for VMS)y) Message-ID: <3C8D8DF5.11532114@rdrop.com>e   "David J. Dachtera" wrote: >  > Robert Deininger wrote:W > >R. > > There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch. > = > Thanx. I'd seen that before, but didn't know what it meant.t  9 There are circles where not having read Heinlein would be_ considered Blasphemy...l   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 04:19:14 GMT.1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>nE Subject: Re: R.I.P. OpenVMS - ISS Recommends That H-P Holders Vote ine' Message-ID: <3C8D8352.E38741FD@fsi.net>p   WILLIAM WEBB wrote:s > 7 > I think that it's more likely the result of the moralv5 > relativism of the 60s becoming institutionalized in 6 > the educational establishment alongside the remnants  > of the collectivist mentality.   > David J. Dachtera wrote: > [snip]G > ..and the sadder part (for investors, common working people, etc.) isi) > that you are most likely quite correct!n > J > I'm slowly beginning to understand why business schools in the 90's wereG > teaching students to "leave their ethics at home", and the results of1I > that philosophy are just beginning to manifest themselves in the publicm > eye.  G Seems to me the statements are more or less the same, just differing in:" scope of time. Keyword: decadence.   -- = David J. Dachtera_ dba DJE Systemst http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/r   ------------------------------   Date: 11 Mar 2002 22:39:02 GMT+ From: "Joe Heimann" <heimann@ecs.umass.edu> N Subject: Re: R.I.P. OpenVMS - ISS Recommends That H-P Holders Vote in Favor of, Message-ID: <a6jbm6$bjc$1@odo.ecs.umass.edu>  . Larry Kilgallen <Kilgallen@spamcop.net> wrote:\ > In article <a6c805$5gh$1@odo.ecs.umass.edu>, "Joe Heimann" <heimann@ecs.umass.edu> writes:8 >> Carl Karcher <karcher@thuria.waisman.wisc.edu> wrote:  K >>> Doesn't Billy Boy own something like 30% of apple too? Or was that justs >>> a nightmare I had? >> vM >> Nah, just a former investment by MS.  As part of a settlement of a pendingaL >> IP case, MS agreed to come out with new versions of MS Office for the MacL >> for a definite period of years.  New features in Office were to be portedH >> to the Mac version within a set period of time as well.  Basically a K >> requirement to keep parity with the Windows version.  As well, MS boughtpM >> a $150 million lot of non-voting stock in Apple, and were required to keep I >> it for several years.  From what I understand, that has all been sold.0  D > If $150 million dollars were a 30% share of Apple, that would meanE > that all of Apple was worth $500 million.  Warren Buffet would haveyG > bought Apple by now (no anti-trust issues for him) just because Applee  > has $4 billion in the bank :-)  G Yeah, the investment was mostly for show and PR purposes.  Apple wanted,E to get a commitment from MS to keep Office and some other MS software G up to date and have something to show the market that MS had a monetaryeG interest as well in Apple continuing to sell.  I think it was an amountTI that was less that 3% of Apple's cash on hand at the time, in other wordse mostly a symbolic investment.d   Joe Heimann    heimann@ecs.umass.edus   ------------------------------   Date: 11 Mar 2002 19:00 CSTi' From: carl@gerg.tamu.edu (Carl Perkins)3N Subject: Re: R.I.P. OpenVMS - ISS Recommends That H-P Holders Vote in Favor of- Message-ID: <11MAR200219003755@gerg.tamu.edu>d  & GreyCloud <mist@cumulus.com> writes... }Carl Perkins wrote:; }> karcher@thuria.waisman.wisc.edu (Carl Karcher) writes...vI }> }In a previous article, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote:hK }> }->For as long as VMS is owned by a compay loyal to Microsoft and Intel,i3 }> VMS will }->not compete against Microsoft/Intel.o }> }->: }> }->I still think that VMS should be aligned with APPLE. }> }K }> }Doesn't Billy Boy own something like 30% of apple too? Or was that justd }> }a nightmare I had?K }> }-- Carl Karcher, Waisman Computing Services, Waisman Center, UW-MadisonA }> :J }> Bill Gates doesn't even own 30% of Microsoft. (He owns under 15%, maybe5 }> even under 12% - it's somewhere in that vicinity.)$ }> sI }Isn't it because Bill has filed with the SEC to slowly sell off all his iJ }stocks in Msft.  Seems like bill sees the handwriting on the wall and is , }getting out.  I think he filed last August.  H He's been selling (and giving away - mostly to the the "Bill and MelindaF Gates Foundation", or whatever it is called) large numbers (in absouteD terms, but not all that large comapred to how many he has) of sharesF every year for probably a decade. He recently filed the papers to sellI another 8 million shares in the near future. This is nowhere near all theDF shares he has left - he has over 650 million shares of Microsoft stockI (after selling the 8 million, it'll probably be a bit under 644 million). F At the rate he is going, it would take at least 50 years him to divest# himself of all his Microsoft stock.e   --- Carl   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 22:56:43 -0600 C From: "Craig A. Berry" <craig.berry@nospam.SignalTreeSolutions.com>m1 Subject: Re: reading sequential files in PERL !?!eH Message-ID: <craig.berry-00E858.22564311032002@news.directvinternet.com>  E In article <3c8d01b3@nubby2.>, "Mike Scott" <mscott_NOSPAM@axys.com> 4 wrote:   > Craig, > M > Your reply has caused me to do do some more testing with my problem.  I now:0 > know that my specific problem is with seek().   6 Indeed it is.  To recap the more complete answer here:  H <http://www.xray.mpe.mpg.de/mailing-lists/vmsperl/2002-03/msg00040.html>  G seeking on record-oriented files lands you on a record boundary, not a ?H byte boundary.  Without knowing the more general problem you are trying D to solve, I'm not sure what the best way around this is.  You might / want to have a look a the new Tie::File module:n  - <http://search.cpan.org/search?dist=Tie-File>p   ------------------------------    Date: 11 Mar 2002 22:23:45 -08001 From: keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com (Keith Parris)e Subject: Re: Reduced SW RAID-5= Message-ID: <cf15391e.0203112223.13f39716@posting.google.com>   E rok@nuk.uni-lj.si wrote in message news:<3c8cdab7.0@NUK.Uni-Lj.Si>...g% >  How do I get it back into the set?v  C Bart has already steered you in the right direction in terms of theh RAID commands.  C But the disk likely wasn't kicked out of the set for no reason.  It5C might be useful to check your errorlog files for device errors, andmD also check the SYS$MANAGER:RAID$DIAGNOSTICS_*.LOG files on each nodeC to get an idea of what the RAID software thought was wrong with the0D drive, and whether a hardware replacement is in order.  Otherwise it  may just happen again and again.? ---------------------------------------------------------------r? Keith Parris | parris at encompasserve dot org | Consulting on:r> Clusters, Disaster Tolerance, Performance, I/O, Storage & SANs   ------------------------------    Date: 11 Mar 2002 20:30:55 -0800, From: tony.cheung@asiayeah.com (Tony Cheung)2 Subject: sending all data as out-of-band in TCP/IP= Message-ID: <f9dc0a5a.0203112030.7364a382@posting.google.com>t   Hi All,   < I have looked into the TCP/IP's out-of-band implementation.   C Rather than sending all data normally, if one transmits all data asLD out-of-band, will there be any performance or behavior difference? I7 won't be sending any normal data, but out-of-band data.0  C Are out-of-band data subject to the same flow control mechanisms in  TCP/IP?_   Thank you very much.   Tony Cheunge   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 23:00:04 GMT11 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com>s" Subject: Re: Shannon on the merger9 Message-ID: <UFaj8.14630$44.3350712@typhoon.ne.ipsvc.net>_  . "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> wrote in message( news:qzbe8.821$1h5.513@news2.bloor.is...   > >_F > > What CPQ really needs is some new blood on the Board, not just the > same-old,sH > > same-old candidates selected by the Houston Politburo. The Politburo that# > > brought you Director Ken Lay...s > >@ >c > Terry, >dI > I'm not sure this deal really brings anything to the table that Compaq,_F > focusing intensely hard for the next 2 years on decent marketing andK > intelligent decision making, wouldn't bring. And I'm not sure that the HP_L > 'brain trust' is capable of making the intelligent decisions required in a > merged company either. <snip> >,J > I think I'd have a lot more confidence if Compaq stayed independent, theD > Board was fired, and Lou Gerstner was brought in to run the place. >e  L Well, the fate of the Grand Acquisition will be known (barring dimpled chads$ and all that) in less than ten days.  I Can't argue with any of the points you made in your post. I still believewK the underlying reason for the proposed merger is the formation of a companyfK with enough size and scale to duke it out with IBM. Not now, but five yearst	 from now.y  K I now return you to "March Merger Madness," which is still in progress. ;-}n   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 15:09:21 -0800a# From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com>d" Subject: RE: Shannon on the merger9 Message-ID: <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIEEEBEFAA.tom@kednos.com>-   > -----Original Message-----8 > From: Terry C. Shannon [mailto:terryshannon@attbi.com]& > Sent: Monday, March 11, 2002 3:00 PM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com $ > Subject: Re: Shannon on the merger >e >r >p0 > "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> wrote in message* > news:qzbe8.821$1h5.513@news2.bloor.is... >2 > > > H > > > What CPQ really needs is some new blood on the Board, not just the
 > > same-old,_J > > > same-old candidates selected by the Houston Politburo. The Politburo > that% > > > brought you Director Ken Lay..._ > > >p > > 
 > > Terry, > >oK > > I'm not sure this deal really brings anything to the table that Compaq,sH > > focusing intensely hard for the next 2 years on decent marketing andA > > intelligent decision making, wouldn't bring. And I'm not sureb
 > that the HPs@ > > 'brain trust' is capable of making the intelligent decisions > required in a  > > merged company either. > <snip> > >_L > > I think I'd have a lot more confidence if Compaq stayed independent, theF > > Board was fired, and Lou Gerstner was brought in to run the place. > >6 >T@ > Well, the fate of the Grand Acquisition will be known (barring > dimpled chadsT& > and all that) in less than ten days. >vK > Can't argue with any of the points you made in your post. I still believetC > the underlying reason for the proposed merger is the formation ofi > a companydB > with enough size and scale to duke it out with IBM. Not now, but > five years > from now.r  I The two CEOs do profit handsomely from the deal, as has been pointed out,> andeL what other reason could they give to justify the merger, other than what you have just stated.    >l? > I now return you to "March Merger Madness," which is still inS > progress. ;-}h >  >    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 22:14:37 -0500e- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>r" Subject: Re: Shannon on the merger, Message-ID: <3C8D7297.86F5E3B7@videotron.ca>   "Terry C. Shannon" wrote: K > Can't argue with any of the points you made in your post. I still believeiM > the underlying reason for the proposed merger is the formation of a company M > with enough size and scale to duke it out with IBM. Not now, but five years  > from now.a  H Apart from Storage and Tandem, isn't HP just eliminating a competitor asF opposed to growing ? The rest is just consolidation of product lines.   M Customers who didn't choose HP before will not start to choose HP now. I hope J for HP's sake that their accountants have assumed a very very conservativeN rate of compaq wintel customers who will automatically switch to HP. As far asK I am concerned, for the wintel business, it is as if Compaq ceased to exist33 and its customers now had to look for a new vendor.-   ------------------------------   Date: 12 Mar 2002 04:52:50 GMT& From: peter@abbnm.com (Peter da Silva)" Subject: Re: Shannon on the merger% Message-ID: <a6k1j2$6t7@web.nmti.com>m  9 In article <UFaj8.14630$44.3350712@typhoon.ne.ipsvc.net>,n0 Terry C. Shannon <terryshannon@attbi.com> wrote:K > Can't argue with any of the points you made in your post. I still believeTM > the underlying reason for the proposed merger is the formation of a companysM > with enough size and scale to duke it out with IBM. Not now, but five yearsh > from now.a  : Like Spurroughs? Unithith? You know, the Power of 2 folks?  J They at least had the brains NOT to kill their golden goose. You can stillL buy 48-bit Burroughs and 36-bit Sperry hardware from Unisys. I don't see the, Power of Nothing folks doing nearly so well.   -- l+  `-_-'   In hoc signo hack, Peter da Silva.oE   'U`    "A well-rounded geek should be able to geek about anything." L                                                        -- nicolai@esperi.org          Disclaimer: WWFD?   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 14:25:43 -0800LM From: "Kenneth H. Fairfield" <Kenneth.H.Fairfield@spam-be-gone.intel.com.net>w+ Subject: Re: Shutdowning 15 VAX machines...S: Message-ID: <3C8D2EE7.50D5BFB9@spam-be-gone.intel.com.net>   "Alan E. Feldman" wrote: [...]S  H > 2.) I also had the "Remote password:" prompt even with a proxy accountE > enabled. But that worked if I put in the right password. However, IoB > could not find a way to make it work for multiple nodes when theF > passwords for those nodes were different from each other. How do youA > type in multiple passwords? I tried pwd1 pwd2 and pwd1,pwd2 and  > neither worked.g  C     I won't say that I violate "standard security practices", no, Id= won't say that.  But having the same password on all (remote,6: not-in-this-cluster) nodes sure helps when using SYSMAN to0 operate on all of them with one SET ENVI/NODE...       -Ken --6 I don't speak for Intel, Intel doesn't speak for me...  
 Ken Fairfield:! F20 Automation VMS System Support< kenneth.h.fairfield#intel.comu   ------------------------------    Date: 11 Mar 2002 17:42:02 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)h+ Subject: Re: Shutdowning 15 VAX machines...I3 Message-ID: <7BeIzbYZ8JQf@eisner.encompasserve.org>f   In article <3C8D2EE7.50D5BFB9@spam-be-gone.intel.com.net>, "Kenneth H. Fairfield" <Kenneth.H.Fairfield@spam-be-gone.intel.com.net> writes:  E >     I won't say that I violate "standard security practices", no, I ? > won't say that.  But having the same password on all (remote,e< > not-in-this-cluster) nodes sure helps when using SYSMAN to2 > operate on all of them with one SET ENVI/NODE...  @ I don't understand how that works.  What is that password, Ken ?   :-)/   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 00:25:13 GMT 2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)+ Subject: Re: Shutdowning 15 VAX machines...S2 Message-ID: <JVbj8.834$fL6.20034@news.cpqcorp.net>  S In article <200203072351.UAA27909@william.uol.com.br>, valdemir-@uol.com.br writes:a  : : Is there any way to make a procedure to shutdown 15 VAX  : machines in network ?"  I   Not without additional information or resorting to a flippant answer...b  B   The operating system here is likely OpenVMS VAX, though various B   operating systems are available for VAX hardware.  Since this is   the OpenVMS newsgroup...  A   There are tools such as SYSMAN that can shut down remote hosts,hA   and there are various techniques using remote access via DECnetT#   or IP or other network protocols.P  B   Please remember that only a very rare one- or two-line question ?   can receive a certain answer.  Many of these terse questions T;   cannot be (unambiguously) answered.  When posting, pleaseN9   remember to provide background -- the VAX platform, thew>   operating system and version, and relevent details.  In this=   case, the particular configuration and network transport(s)f>   available, and some background on the particular problem(s) >   you are seeking to resolve.  (The OpenVMS FAQ has some basic%   pointers on how to ask questions.) e  ?   The Ask The Wizard area and the Writing Real Programs in DCL b=   book have details on using DCL task-to-task, SYSMAN details <   are in the OpenVMS System Management and System Management@   Utilities manual.  The OpenVMS FAQ has pointers to the OpenVMSA   Ask The Wizard site and to the OpenVMS documentation website.  n-   The DCL book is not available for download.o  B   This is not intended to be rude, but rather is intended to help E   you more quickly receive the (right) answer(s) to your question(s).D    N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------N       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.com    N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  + Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 23:38:54 +0000 (UTC)D4 From: lewis@nonmailspyder.mitre.org (Keith A. Lewis) Subject: Re: SMG. Message-ID: <a6jf6e$5ec$1@newslocal.mitre.org>  ~ wingwong@witty.com (wing) writes in article <873e96d6.0203091740.18e43a73@posting.google.com> dated 9 Mar 2002 17:40:44 -0800:B >I am new to SMG and I am trying to use SMG to write an UI to pass >message to a server process.e >l1 >I have read the openvms SMG$ manual and have trym4 >smg$create_pasteboard, smg$create_virtual_keyboard,7 >smg$create_virtual_display, smg$paste_virtual_display.r > F >However, when I use smg$read_string and try to read the function key1F >to break the program.  I find the code returned by smg$read_string is >281 but SMG$K_TRM_PF1 is 256. >: >Besides, I need to % >1. check the tab to go to next field: >2. set field length >3. set field editabilityd  F Read the SMGDEF.H file.  If you can't find it, you can get it with the command:  > $ lib sys$library:sys$starlet_c /tex/extr=smgdef /out=smgdef.h   Tab is control-I.e  K To my knowledge, SMG does not have a "field" entity.  In my SMG application.) I modeled them based on each keystroke.  w  F In 1998 I converted most of my SMG to HTML forms and CGI scripts whichI access the same database, but I couldn't figure out a good record-lockingo1 mechanism in HTML so that part is still SMG-only.h  + --Keith Lewis              klewis$mitre.orga> The above may not (yet) represent the opinions of my employer.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 16:04:58 -0500 - From: "Richard D. Piccard" <piccard@ohio.edu>o* Subject: Re: Standalone backup question...( Message-ID: <3C8D1BED.219661CB@ohio.edu>  E There have been times when BACKUP did not like fresh-from-the-factorya tapes.  H Initializing them from a running system before shutting down and booting. standalone BACKUP seemed to be more reliable.   G The particular system that I am pretty sure I observed this behavior onuH was a VAX 6400 with the 205 MByte six-cartridge auto-loader that was, if  I recall correctly OEM by IBM.    	 						RDPP     Michael Worsley wrote: > D > Michael Worsley <michael.worsley@praxis-cs.co.uk> wrote in message0 > news:a62t3f$b5fsd$1@ID-65806.news.dfncis.de... >  > <snip> > > > I believe I have now sorted this after some experimentation: > A > BACKUP/IMAGE/VERIFY DKA300: MKA500:dua0.bck/REWIND/LABEL=sysbck, >    Described behaviour > A > BACKUP/IMAGE/VERIFY DKA300: MKA500:dua0.bck/REWIND/IGNORE=LABEL- >    Same Behaviour- > : > BACKUP/IMAGE/VERIFY DKA300: MKA500:dua0.bck/IGNORE=label+ >    %BACKUP-I-LABELERR  (not an ANSI tape)  > - > BACKUP/IMAGE/VERIFY DKA300: MKA500:dua0.bcke >    %BACKUP-I-POSITERR7 >    %SYSTEM-F-PARITYr > 4 > BACKUP/IMAGE/VERIFY DKA300: MKA500:dua0.bck/REWIND >    Works fine. > K > I've only tried the final command once so far, so I need to double-check,  > but it looks promising.c > K > Would anyone care to hazard a guess why both /IGNORE=label and /LABEL=xxxII > have the same behaviour, but not saying anything about the label works?> > 2 > Thanks to everyone who replied here or by email. >  > -- > Michael Worsley    -- nB ==================================================================B Dick Piccard                           Academic Technology ManagerB piccard@ohio.edu                                 Computer ServicesB http://oak.cats.ohiou.edu/~piccard/                Ohio University   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 17:02:31 -0500e9 From: "Pierre-Luc Morin" <Pierre-Luc.Morin@CSE-CST.GC.CA>e Subject: unzip installationi2 Message-ID: <1015884154.115243@news.drenet.dnd.ca>  L Does anyone knows how to install unzip on an OpenVms Alpha system?  I have aJ file name unzipAlpha.exe but when i try to do      run unzipAlpha test.zip> ,for example,  it tells me that i have too much parameters....       Thanks Peter    ------------------------------    Date: 11 Mar 2002 16:15:45 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)h Subject: Re: unzip installationv3 Message-ID: <W$yXzhSz7rEd@eisner.encompasserve.org>i  n In article <1015884154.115243@news.drenet.dnd.ca>, "Pierre-Luc Morin" <Pierre-Luc.Morin@CSE-CST.GC.CA> writes:N > Does anyone knows how to install unzip on an OpenVms Alpha system?  I have aL > file name unzipAlpha.exe but when i try to do      run unzipAlpha test.zip@ > ,for example,  it tells me that i have too much parameters....  = I don't remember Unzip details, but certainly you need to tryb  	 	HELP RUN2  C to better understand that the RUN command takes only one parameter.,    Perhaps you are thinking of MCR.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 23:19:56 +0100 9 From: Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com>r Subject: Re: unzip installationi& Message-ID: <3C8D2D8C.8D2D677@aaa.com>  ( You have to define a "foreign command" :  $ $ unzip :== $dev:[dir]unzipAlpha.exe  > (put it in you local LOGIN.COM or the system wide SYLOGIN.COM)4 (dev and dir are where you have out the unzip image)   and then just do :   $ unzip test.zip   voil !!   Jan-Erik Sderholm.    Pierre-Luc Morin wrote:t > N > Does anyone knows how to install unzip on an OpenVms Alpha system?  I have aL > file name unzipAlpha.exe but when i try to do      run unzipAlpha test.zip@ > ,for example,  it tells me that i have too much parameters.... >  > Thanks > Peters   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 17:43:37 -0500j1 From: Michael Austin <maustin@firstdbasource.com>> Subject: Re: unzip installationo2 Message-ID: <3C8D3319.8C1C154D@firstdbasource.com>  2 I think I just went through this in another forum:    E $!!Add this to your LOGIN.COM file. replacing the appropriate fields u# $unzip :== $<dev>:[dir]unzipalpha  r   then r   $unzip test.zipe         Pierre-Luc Morin wrote:C > N > Does anyone knows how to install unzip on an OpenVms Alpha system?  I have aL > file name unzipAlpha.exe but when i try to do      run unzipAlpha test.zip@ > ,for example,  it tells me that i have too much parameters.... >  > Thanks > Peter-   -- - Regards,  7 Michael Austin            Registered Linux User #261163n7 First DBA Source, Inc.    http://www.firstdbasource.comg Sr. Consultant 704-947-1089 (Office)- 704-236-4377 (Mobile)    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 14:34:24 -0800iM From: "Kenneth H. Fairfield" <Kenneth.H.Fairfield@spam-be-gone.intel.com.net>@ Subject: Re: unzip installation : Message-ID: <3C8D30F0.7236C1B4@spam-be-gone.intel.com.net>   Pierre-Luc Morin wrote:l  N > Does anyone knows how to install unzip on an OpenVms Alpha system?  I have aL > file name unzipAlpha.exe but when i try to do      run unzipAlpha test.zip@ > ,for example,  it tells me that i have too much parameters....  I     Please grab the FAQ and read topic "DCL1. How do I run a program with-' arguments?"  The FAQ can be found here:1  =         http://www.openvms.compaq.com/wizard/openvms_faq.htmla   as well as other locations...o       -Ken --6 I don't speak for Intel, Intel doesn't speak for me...  
 Ken Fairfield<! F20 Automation VMS System Supporte kenneth.h.fairfield#intel.comr   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 17:50:23 -0500o9 From: "Pierre-Luc Morin" <Pierre-Luc.Morin@CSE-CST.GC.CA>b Subject: Re: unzip installationt2 Message-ID: <1015887026.713913@news.drenet.dnd.ca>   Thank to you all!    Very very appreciate!r  
 Pierre-Luc  D "Pierre-Luc Morin" <Pierre-Luc.Morin@CSE-CST.GC.CA> wrote in message, news:1015884154.115243@news.drenet.dnd.ca...L > Does anyone knows how to install unzip on an OpenVms Alpha system?  I have atL > file name unzipAlpha.exe but when i try to do      run unzipAlpha test.zip@ > ,for example,  it tells me that i have too much parameters.... >o >q >a > Thanks > Petere >  >r   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 00:48:46 GMTl2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) Subject: Re: unzip installationt2 Message-ID: <Ofcj8.838$fL6.20442@news.cpqcorp.net>  n In article <1015887026.713913@news.drenet.dnd.ca>, "Pierre-Luc Morin" <Pierre-Luc.Morin@CSE-CST.GC.CA> writes:   :Thank to you all! :g :Very very appreciate!  
   Pierre-Luc,   H   Please download and read the OpenVMS Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ).H   The OpenVMS FAQ (text version) can be downloaded in its entirety from >   http://www.openvms.compaq.com/ and from various other sites.     Why do you want the FAQ?     ...o  . DCL1.   How do I run a program with arguments?  K The RUN command does not accept arguments.  To pass arguments to a program,n> you must use what is called a "foreign command".  For example:  (         $ unzip :== $disk:[dir]unzip.exe         $ unzip -?   	....g    G   You'll also find out how to fix zip-corrupted BACKUP savesets, about 8H   known-buggy versions of zip, and many other items of zip (and OpenVMS)	   trivia.l     And you'll find:     ..? SOFT14.   Where can I get Zip, Unzip, self-extracting zip, etc?o  @   Many packages are provided in ZIP, GZIP, or BZIP format, whichA   requires you to acquire the associated unzip tool to unpack it.r5   You can get ZIP and UNZIP from the following areas:o  =   http://www.openvms.compaq.com/freeware/freeware50/000tools/d:   http://www.openvms.compaq.com/freeware/freeware50/bzip2/=   http://www.openvms.compaq.com/freeware/freeware50/info-zip/g=   http://www.openvms.compaq.com/freeware/freeware40/000tools/y4   ftp://ftp.process.com/vms-freeware/unzip.alpha_exe2   ftp://ftp.process.com/vms-freeware/unzip.vax_exe/   http://www.decus.de:8080/www/vms/sw/zip.htmlxn    http://www.djesys.com/zip.html"   http://www.djesys.com/unzip.html   ..    N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------N       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.com    N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  + Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 23:18:57 +0000 (UTC)p3 From: lewis@nomailspyder.mitre.org (Keith A. Lewis) , Subject: Re: Users being randomly logged out. Message-ID: <a6je11$5e0$1@newslocal.mitre.org>   martin.hunt@inl.co.nz (Martin Hunt) writes in article <3c8bdae4.8491029@news.wlg.netlink.net.nz> dated Sun, 10 Mar 2002 22:32:29 GMT:0C >I have a problem where users on a VAX having their Telnet sessionsa@ >terminated. It appears to be a network problem, but working outE >whether it is a VAX problem (such as faulty network card), is not som1 >easy. There are no hardware errors being logged.g  K Tcp is a reliable protocol, which means no number of dropped packets due toiG a bad card will cause the connection to terminate.  For a connection towM terminate, it must get a message from the other end explicitly telling it to.   B If you have a telnet session open from your PC to your Vax and youI power-cycle the Vax, the session will stay open until the Vax gets to theIL point during the boot where tcp/ip comes up again.  For the entire time, theG terminal is repeatedly trying to send keyboard data (assuming you typed.L something) to a tcp port on the Vax and is not getting any acknowledgement. L When tcp/ip finally starts up, the Vax will get the info and respond "That'sC not an open connection so shut the hell up" (sorry I don't know thebA technical term).  Only then will the PC shut down the connection.g  K So if you had a duplicate IP or MAC address, or a problem with ARP (AddressnA Resolution Protocol -- the method used to map IP addresses to MAC ? addresses), packets from the PCs could go to the wrong machine.   G Warning:  Decnet phase IV sets the hardware address based on the Decneto? address.  If you're running that, be damn sure they are unique.M  A >I am trying to find out some information about the card (such as?E >speed, etc), but I can't find any command which will tell me this. I / >am pretty sure that it is 10Mbps, half duplex.t >rA >I am running VMS V7.1, UCX 4.2 on a MicroVAX 3100-95. The VAX ise8 >connected to the network via an AUI to 10BaseT adapter.$                                  ^^^= Thinnet and AUI can only support 10-half.  That answers that.h  - Other questions that might lead us somewhere:   F Are there routers between the PCs and the Vax?  In my experience, thisB symptom is usually caused by routers rebooting and/or having theirH configuration changed while connections are active.  Most routers can beI SNMP-queried for "uptime", so check them right after an incident happens.5  I Does it ever happen to inactive connections? (Try leaving a telnet window ! iconified for a week on your PC.)r  K Does it happen to inactive connections to a Linux box on the same subnet ast	 your Vax?H  E Does it happen to Vax-to-self connections?  (log into the console andn+ "telnet localhost" or "telnet hostname"...)e  J One damage-control suggestion:  Enable virtual terminals, so that a telnetK session can be disconnected without the process being deleted.  You have tot% load the driver and enable it in UCX.'  + --Keith Lewis              klewis$mitre.orgl> The above may not (yet) represent the opinions of my employer.   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 03:40:48 GMT 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>. Subject: Re: VFC File Problema' Message-ID: <3C8D7ACD.413986A3@fsi.net>i  ! norm.raphael@jamesbury.com wrote:- > E > Note:  I am not including the code because of the copyright notice.   8 Then, can you at least post a link to the original item?   -- e David J. Dachtera8 dba DJE Systemsa http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/n   ------------------------------   Date: 11 Mar 2002 19:39 CSTo' From: carl@gerg.tamu.edu (Carl Perkins) A Subject: Re: Viability of a Commercial ISO-9960 formatter for VMS - Message-ID: <11MAR200219390775@gerg.tamu.edu>s  5 "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> writes...wH }> You get into MS stuff below, but NT server requires client licenses.  } @ }Not in my experince. You buy the shrink-wrapped server distro.,G }including the associated services and service licenses (all in one go, C }not separately), and off you go. Client licenses are, of course, aJ }separate issue.  7 How, exactly, is this different from the VMS situation?l  * VMS: you pay money to get the add-on part.) MS: You pay money to get the add-on part.t  @ Where is this great mystical difference between the two you keep going on about?o   --- Carl   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 03:29:08 GMT 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>aA Subject: Re: Viability of a Commercial ISO-9960 formatter for VMS ' Message-ID: <3C8D7812.F52A2E7D@fsi.net>    Wayne Sewell wrote:h > ] > In article <3C8BF2BF.1857F514@fsi.net>, "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> writes:o > > Robert Deininger wrote:h > >>@ > >> In article <3C8B8E56.95BA33AA@fsi.net>, "David J. Dachtera"# > >> <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote:s > >> > >> >> TANSTAAFL. > >> > > >> >Translation, please... > >>/ > >> There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch.  > > ? > > Thanx. I'd seen that before, but didn't know what it meant.  > A > Came from "The Moon is a Harsh Mistress" by Robert A. Heinlein.l  C Hhmmm... Reminds me of a line from Geo. S. Clason's "Richest Man In . Babylon": "Opportunity is haughty goddess...".   -- s David J. Dachterat dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/t   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 03:37:48 GMTa1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>pA Subject: Re: Viability of a Commercial ISO-9960 formatter for VMSc' Message-ID: <3C8D7A18.25D755BD@fsi.net>    Carl Perkins wrote:o > 7 > "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> writes...nI > }> You get into MS stuff below, but NT server requires client licenses.t > })B > }Not in my experince. You buy the shrink-wrapped server distro.,I > }including the associated services and service licenses (all in one go,.E > }not separately), and off you go. Client licenses are, of course, ai > }separate issue. > 9 > How, exactly, is this different from the VMS situation?o > , > VMS: you pay money to get the add-on part.+ > MS: You pay money to get the add-on part.0 > B > Where is this great mystical difference between the two you keep > going on about?-  E You buy W/9x, W/NT, W2K, you also get file sharing (no extra charge),sC printer sharing (no extra cost), networking (no extra cost) and web F browsing (currently in litigation for its deep, proprietary hooks into% the GUI and kernel and other issues).v  F You buy VMS, you get VMS. Want networking? Sorry, that's extra (or wasG up until recently). Want file/print sharing for PCs? That almost costs pD more than VMS (Advanced Server). Want a GUI? That was extra, too, upH until recently. Want a web browser? Well, we sort of have one almost outG of beta. It's a freebie (more or less), but if you want support for it, 
 that's extra.d  * What other questions can I answer for you?   --   David J. Dachterae dba DJE Systemst http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/i   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 05:11:45 GMT  From: lbohan@spamless..dbc.comA Subject: Re: Viability of a Commercial ISO-9960 formatter for VMSd8 Message-ID: <me2r8ukvdmobdo8jnn5mjk98bjd3f48vlh@4ax.com>  5 On Tue, 12 Mar 2002 03:37:48 GMT, "David J. Dachtera"a <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote:    G >You buy VMS, you get VMS. Want networking? Sorry, that's extra (or was H >up until recently). Want file/print sharing for PCs? That almost costs E >more than VMS (Advanced Server). Want a GUI? That was extra, too, up I >until recently. Want a web browser? Well, we sort of have one almost outrH >of beta. It's a freebie (more or less), but if you want support for it, >that's extra. >.+ >What other questions can I answer for you?    well.. (tongue-in-cheek)  - for wnt/w2k/xp/whatever-its-called-this-months
 how much for:u  -  0.  Stable API's, and backwards compatibiltyt  1.  CLI, and remote accessa  2.  Batch subsystem"  3.  Backup, including stand-alone-  4.  Swap system disk, and boot on XYZ system-0  5.  Real customer service, and timely bugfixes.  6.  Decent Uptime  7.  ...etc...   ------------------------------    Date: 11 Mar 2002 21:18:29 -0000= From: Doc.Cypher <Use-Author-Supplied-Address-Header@[127.1]>w# Subject: VMS conferencing software. 6 Message-ID: <20020311211829.21835.qmail@gacracker.org>   Hi,   I Is there any freeware text conferencing software for VMS, and if so wherer can I get my hands on it?P  F PHONE is perfect for one-to-one communication, but how do you go aboutH having a group of VMS users chatting together? I've heard rumours of IRC$ daemons for VMS, but never seen one.     Doc. -- K6 The bigger the humbug, the better people will like it.K ~ Phineas Taylor Barnum.                              http://vmsbox.cjb.netd   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 22:56:30 +0100n9 From: Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com>i' Subject: Re: VMS conferencing software. ' Message-ID: <3C8D280E.974350A7@aaa.com>=  0 Perhaps wasn't what you wanted but PHONE actualy0 supports a "Conference call" with 6 participant.  7 Now, I did actualy prefer the PHONE version on RSX-11M.s8 It had an option to "log" the conversation to a file for4 later reference. I missed that when going to VMS :-)   Jan-Erik Sderholm.o   "Doc.Cypher" wrote:h > H > PHONE is perfect for one-to-one communication, but how do you go about0 > having a group of VMS users chatting together?   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 22:56:34 +0100r9 From: Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com>u' Subject: Re: VMS conferencing software.1' Message-ID: <3C8D2812.7408DC94@aaa.com>o  0 Perhaps wasn't what you wanted but PHONE actualy1 supports a "Conference call" with 6 participants.t  7 Now, I did actualy prefer the PHONE version on RSX-11M.e8 It had an option to "log" the conversation to a file for4 later reference. I missed that when going to VMS :-)   Jan-Erik Sderholm.5   "Doc.Cypher" wrote:@ > H > PHONE is perfect for one-to-one communication, but how do you go about0 > having a group of VMS users chatting together?   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 22:56:21 +0100.9 From: Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com>s' Subject: Re: VMS conferencing software. ' Message-ID: <3C8D2805.3B8C452C@aaa.com>e  0 Perhaps wasn't what you wanted but PHONE actualy1 supports a "Conference call" with 6 participant".s  7 Now, I did actualy prefer the PHONE version on RSX-11M.e8 It had an option to "log" the conversation to a file for4 later reference. I missed that when going to VMS :-)   Jan-Erik Sderholm.    "Doc.Cypher" wrote:- > H > PHONE is perfect for one-to-one communication, but how do you go about0 > having a group of VMS users chatting together?   ------------------------------    Date: 11 Mar 2002 21:36:00 -0000= From: Doc.Cypher <Use-Author-Supplied-Address-Header@[127.1]>a' Subject: Re: VMS conferencing software. 6 Message-ID: <20020311213600.22189.qmail@gacracker.org>  > On Mon, 11 Mar 2002, Jan-Erik S=F6derholm <aaa@aaa.com> wrote:1 >Perhaps wasn't what you wanted but PHONE actualyc2 >supports a "Conference call" with 6 participant". >u8 >Now, I did actualy prefer the PHONE version on RSX-11M.9 >It had an option to "log" the conversation to a file forz5 >later reference. I missed that when going to VMS :-)a >e >Jan-Erik S=F6derholm. >e >"Doc.Cypher" wrote: >>=20-I >> PHONE is perfect for one-to-one communication, but how do you go abouta1 >> having a group of VMS users chatting together?a  7 That's what I get for not reading the help properly :-)>  L Now, if there's more than six users, is there anything else that deals with=   it.O     Doc. --=20 6 The bigger the humbug, the better people will like it.L ~ Phineas Taylor Barnum.                              http://vmsbox.cjb.net=   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 22:13:44 GMTe4 From: Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@blueyonder.co.uk>' Subject: Re: VMS conferencing software.e0 Message-ID: <3C8D2ACB.E0BEC59D@blueyonder.co.uk>   "Doc.Cypher" wrote:- >  > Hi,e > K > Is there any freeware text conferencing software for VMS, and if so wherer > can I get my hands on it?b > H > PHONE is perfect for one-to-one communication, but how do you go aboutJ > having a group of VMS users chatting together? I've heard rumours of IRC& > daemons for VMS, but never seen one.  > I was running irc on VMS 10 years ago, so such s/w does exist.@ I had 1.73 and 1.76 working, and some source for an IRCII clientC that I never got round to making work. Much tedium was relieved on zE nightshifts receiving cricket commentary from aus, asian subcontinentt etc.  > If you can't find anything more recent maybe I can dig it out.   Regards   e -- m Tim.Llewellyn@cableinet.co.uk  g  C Standard disclaimer applies. My views in no way represent those of t! my employers or service provider.    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 17:29:44 -0500s* From: WILLIAM WEBB <WWEBB1@email.usps.gov>' Subject: RE: VMS conferencing software.r- Message-ID: <0033000055982486000002L062*@MHS>s  3 =0ADidn't NOTES get put on one of the Freeware CDs?-   WWWebb   -----Original Message-----/ From: Info-VAX-Request@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNET"$ Sent: Monday, March 11, 2002 5:13 PMB To: Webb, William W Raleigh, NC; Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNET' Subject: RE: VMS conferencing software.e     "Doc.Cypher" wrote:i >e > Hi,  >eH > Is there any freeware text conferencing software for VMS, and if so w= here > can I get my hands on it?. > H > PHONE is perfect for one-to-one communication, but how do you go abou= ttH > having a group of VMS users chatting together? I've heard rumours of = IRC & > daemons for VMS, but never seen one.  > I was running irc on VMS 10 years ago, so such s/w does exist.@ I had 1.73 and 1.76 working, and some source for an IRCII clientB that I never got round to making work. Much tedium was relieved onE nightshifts receiving cricket commentary from aus, asian subcontinent. etc.  > If you can't find anything more recent maybe I can dig it out.   Regardsr   -- Tim.Llewellyn@cableinet.co.uk   B Standard disclaimer applies. My views in no way represent those of" my employers or service provider.=   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 17:48:09 -0500 1 From: Michael Austin <maustin@firstdbasource.com>v' Subject: Re: VMS conferencing software.e2 Message-ID: <3C8D3429.76437681@firstdbasource.com>  H Hmmm... now that goes back a ways... I really liked notes because all ofF the conferences and threads were almost kept indefinately for referralA at a later date.  I had a discussion (while at DEC) that was in adB particular conference that I needed to reference some 5 or 6 yearsF later.... and there it was...  Although this by no means a "real-time"C conference/chat. You did keep having to refresh the list to see new 
 posts. IIRC. n   WILLIAM WEBB wrote:h > 2 > Didn't NOTES get put on one of the Freeware CDs? >  > WWWebb >  > -----Original Message-----1 > From: Info-VAX-Request@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNETo& > Sent: Monday, March 11, 2002 5:13 PMD > To: Webb, William W Raleigh, NC; Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNET) > Subject: RE: VMS conferencing software.d >  > "Doc.Cypher" wrote:a > >/ > > Hi,f > >rM > > Is there any freeware text conferencing software for VMS, and if so wheret > > can I get my hands on it?e > >fJ > > PHONE is perfect for one-to-one communication, but how do you go aboutL > > having a group of VMS users chatting together? I've heard rumours of IRC( > > daemons for VMS, but never seen one. > @ > I was running irc on VMS 10 years ago, so such s/w does exist.B > I had 1.73 and 1.76 working, and some source for an IRCII clientD > that I never got round to making work. Much tedium was relieved onG > nightshifts receiving cricket commentary from aus, asian subcontinent- > etc. > @ > If you can't find anything more recent maybe I can dig it out. > 	 > Regardsc >  > -- > Tim.Llewellyn@cableinet.co.uke > D > Standard disclaimer applies. My views in no way represent those of# > my employers or service provider.e   -- g Regards,  7 Michael Austin            Registered Linux User #261163 7 First DBA Source, Inc.    http://www.firstdbasource.com3 Sr. Consultant 704-947-1089 (Office)> 704-236-4377 (Mobile)    ------------------------------    Date: 11 Mar 2002 17:40:07 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) ' Subject: Re: VMS conferencing software.r3 Message-ID: <sWCz+W7fAl7s@eisner.encompasserve.org>s  f In article <3C8D3429.76437681@firstdbasource.com>, Michael Austin <maustin@firstdbasource.com> writes:J > Hmmm... now that goes back a ways... I really liked notes because all ofH > the conferences and threads were almost kept indefinately for referralC > at a later date.  I had a discussion (while at DEC) that was in anD > particular conference that I needed to reference some 5 or 6 years > later.... and there it was...e  5 As we can go back almost 15 years on DECUServe today.g  / 	http://eisner.decus.org/conferences/index.htmld   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 01:33:46 +0100oB From: Michiel Erens <I.dont.want.spam@this.mailaddress.is.invalid>' Subject: Re: VMS conferencing software.n7 Message-ID: <3C8D4CEA.3DAB@this.mailaddress.is.invalid>e   Doc.Cypher wrote:n >  > Hi,b > F > Is there any freeware text conferencing software for VMS, and if so ! > where can I get my hands on it?r  5 Richard Levitte has some IRC stuff on his FTP site :    ftp://ftp.lp.se/vms/a   I also googled this message :)2 > We have had XIRC-client ported since 16-DEC-1999, >  ftp://byron.ext.telia.se/vms/tdf/xicq.zip >  > and a short note here:, >  ftp://byron.ext.telia.se/vms/tdf/xicq.txt   -- e ME Posted by news://news.nb.nu    ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 19:02:29 GMTa' From: Don Sykes <anonymous@pacbell.net>h5 Subject: Re: Why not we guys buy OpenVMS from Compaq?t+ Message-ID: <3C8CFF57.1FABE033@pacbell.net>c   Larry Kilgallen wrote: > e > In article <DnKi8.66806$xG.28928@news2.bloor.is>, "john smith" <Xudongzong.0974@rogers.com> writes:n7 > > Looks like have a lot concerns with OpenVMS future.t >  > Only in this newsgroup.s >  > > I am wondering if we canK > > set  up a new company can buy OpenVMS from Compaq. So we do not need toe > > worry about too much.o > >i5 > > Will it cost 2 billions? Not sure if is feasible.c > A > If that is the price, then the question is whether every activeg> > participant in this newsgroup will provide 1 million dollars7 > for the cause.  Will you take care of organizing it ?o  P Big finance doesn't work that way. IF VMS were for sale it would only take a fewH million (~10) and a really good business plan to arrange a loan with theP investment bankers. The issue is, is there anyone in our cov group with a provenP business plan track record and such banker connections. After all webvan managed5 to raise $1.1 B for buying groceries on the internet! M I'm afraid the big problem is getting Compaq/HP to part with an OS that gives ) them such leverage with the Fortune 1000.t   -- s   Have VMS. Will Travel. Wire Paladin @alphase.com 
 San Francisco    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 15:19:58 -0500p- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>e5 Subject: Re: Why not we guys buy OpenVMS from Compaq?j, Message-ID: <3C8D116C.BAB3C897@videotron.ca>   Bill Gunshannon wrote:F > Unless things have changed over the weekend, OpenVMS isn't for sale.  J I would rephrase that with "VMS customers are not for sale".  I think thatM Compaq/HP care very little about VMS. They care about keeping those customersoL who happen to have deep pockets and willing to pay lots of money for support
 and big iron.u  N When a company has a product that isn't part of it strategic direction, it has
 many choices: C 	-kill the product, reassign staff to other divisions or fire them.p (aka: MPE, Tru64).  : 	-kill product and "sell" the employees and IP to  friend : (aka: Alpha and Digital compiler employees going to Intel)  M 	-sell the product to someone who will be happy to have it but won't compete. K (aka: big railroads selling their non-core rail lines to micro-railways whooK are perfectly happy to operate a small line and can do so profitably, *AND*tL feed traffic to the remaining mainline, or closer to Digital, sale of PDP-11G stuff to MENTEC, and all those DEC products Palmer sold to 3rd parties)h  N 	-just ignore the product, provide alternatives and let it die of old age when nobody wants it anymore:, (I think that Telex might be a good example)  J Spinning off a company is usually done when the company is stiffled by theN corporate structure and has greater potential for success if left independant.J That was the case with Nortel, which, once it was freed from Bell Canada'sI corporate structures, was able to go to markets and expand overnight (and8 collapse just as quickly).  L The big difference between the Bell-Nortel and HP-VMS stories is that NortelJ didn't compete against Bell. Its origins was to build phones for Bell, butN Bell's core business was providing telephone service in Qubec and Ontario. SoM setting Nortel free didn't result in Nortel stealing customers from Bell. Butl6 it also meant that Bell was freer to choose suppliers.  G But in the case of HP, setting VMS free would result in VMS potentiallyaM competing against all HP products except handhelds and consumer PCs. It wouldaF compete against Tandem, compete against Unix servers as well as wintelL servers. Someone who would buy into VMS would do so because they know of itsM untapped potential and would take advantage of its scalability and clustering6> to open up the markets that Palmer and Curly refused to allow.  L The other possibility is to declare VMS mature, sell it to Mentec to provideH support and honour those DII deals with military and then HP wouldn't beN bothered by it anymore and could focus on what it wants to focus. VMS wouldn't8 compete against HP because nobody would buy VMS anymore.   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 20:51:14 GMTr1 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com>a5 Subject: Re: Why not we guys buy OpenVMS from Compaq? 9 Message-ID: <6N8j8.13565$44.3267008@typhoon.ne.ipsvc.net>o  4 "Don Sykes" <anonymous@pacbell.net> wrote in message% news:3C8CFF57.1FABE033@pacbell.net...  >pL > Big finance doesn't work that way. IF VMS were for sale it would only take a fewcJ > million (~10) and a really good business plan to arrange a loan with theK > investment bankers. The issue is, is there anyone in our cov group with ah provenJ > business plan track record and such banker connections. After all webvan managedt7 > to raise $1.1 B for buying groceries on the internet!r  G That was before the Nuclear Winter of the Dot Com Bombs, but t'is true,U money is out there.o  I > I'm afraid the big problem is getting Compaq/HP to part with an OS thatt givest+ > them such leverage with the Fortune 1000.w >    And therein lies the rub!a   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 18:24:11 -0500e, From: "Frank Sapienza" <sapienza@noesys.com>5 Subject: Re: Why not we guys buy OpenVMS from Compaq?e, Message-ID: <a6jefc01acj@enews3.newsguy.com>  < "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com> wrote in message3 news:6N8j8.13565$44.3267008@typhoon.ne.ipsvc.net...l >OK > > I'm afraid the big problem is getting Compaq/HP to part with an OS that. > givesn- > > them such leverage with the Fortune 1000.e > >  >e > And therein lies the rub!  >Y    Could you expand on that, Terry?   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 00:42:06 GMTs1 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com>(5 Subject: Re: Why not we guys buy OpenVMS from Compaq? 9 Message-ID: <y9cj8.15167$44.3419163@typhoon.ne.ipsvc.net>o  7 "Frank Sapienza" <sapienza@noesys.com> wrote in messaget& news:a6jefc01acj@enews3.newsguy.com... >.> > "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com> wrote in message5 > news:6N8j8.13565$44.3267008@typhoon.ne.ipsvc.net...i > >tH > > > I'm afraid the big problem is getting Compaq/HP to part with an OS that	 > > givesa/ > > > them such leverage with the Fortune 1000.i > > >d > >e > > And therein lies the rub!o > >X >s" > Could you expand on that, Terry? >   I Well, I kinda doubt that either HWP or CPQ would be interested in selling-L VMS on the cheap, thereby nuking a revenue stream of a couple of billion USD) per year, and significant margin as well.S  C A shame that the OS is not promoted and marketed more aggressively.c   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 22:36:29 -0500S- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> 5 Subject: Re: Why not we guys buy OpenVMS from Compaq?w, Message-ID: <3C8D77B6.7BB29673@videotron.ca>   "Terry C. Shannon" wrote: K > Well, I kinda doubt that either HWP or CPQ would be interested in sellinggN > VMS on the cheap, thereby nuking a revenue stream of a couple of billion USD+ > per year, and significant margin as well.   K They had no problems doing that with Alpha. They knew that the announcementmJ would cause the loss of a certain percentage of sales/customers, but  mustG have calculated that the benefits from Intel would have outweighted the F losses, especially in the long term since HP will be a slave to Intel.  K *IF* donating VMS to another partner were to result in HP getting long term G benefits for its core products that will grow, the accountants may have.N calculated that it was a sound financial decision to donate VMS' employees andJ IP to Microsoft. For HP, they can cater the true "non-stop" custoemrs with. Tandem products, and others can go to Unix/NT.  K Carly had no problems killing MPE without even donating it to others to get0 anything in return.=   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 03:53:07 GMT 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>o5 Subject: Re: Why not we guys buy OpenVMS from Compaq?u' Message-ID: <3C8D7D32.B1DD74A6@fsi.net>p   Wayne Sewell wrote:t > ] > In article <3C8BF3D6.8A8EF213@fsi.net>, "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> writes:r" > > system@SendSpamHere.ORG wrote: > >>h > >> In article <CEMopQDaXRVy@eisner.encompasserve.org>, Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) writes:i > >> >In article <DnKi8.66806$xG.28928@news2.bloor.is>, "john smith" <Xudongzong.0974@rogers.com> writes:-; > >> >> Looks like have a lot concerns with OpenVMS future.- > >> > > >> >Only in this newsgroup.a > >> >  > >> >> I am wondering if we canO > >> >> set  up a new company can buy OpenVMS from Compaq. So we do not need tot > >> >> worry about too much.a > >> >>n9 > >> >> Will it cost 2 billions? Not sure if is feasible.  > >> >E > >> >If that is the price, then the question is whether every active B > >> >participant in this newsgroup will provide 1 million dollars; > >> >for the cause.  Will you take care of organizing it ?r > >>R > >> I'll put up $1M if every other participant in this newsgroup does so as well. > >i > > Um, Bri? > >-K > > Pardon my asking in this way, but if you've got a megabuck, WTF are youh > > doing here?p > Q > I read the comment as "I've got as much chance of raising a mill as anyone else29 > in this group."  Which of course is true, since 0 == 0.2  D Sorry. I keep forgetting I'm only one of a very few here who read or" listen to the likes of Zig Ziglar.  G Ziglar says, "You know me: I'm so optimistic, I'd go after Moby Dick int- a rowboat and take the tartar sauce with me!"    -- " David J. Dachterao dba DJE Systemst http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/t   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 03:55:29 GMTy1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>n5 Subject: Re: Why not we guys buy OpenVMS from Compaq?e' Message-ID: <3C8D7DC0.E3DD0914@fsi.net>t   Bill Gunshannon wrote: > ) > In article <3C8B9C93.8ACA7445@fsi.net>, 6 >  "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> writes: > |>M > |> Now you know why I will not accept on faith that which makes no sense to ( > |> me in the grander scheme of things. > C > While this was a familiar but valid explanation, it, like all then3 > others ignores one major part of this discussion.  > F > Unless things have changed over the weekend, OpenVMS isn't for sale.   Two words: "Hostile buyout".   -- e David J. Dachterat dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/h   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 03:54:41 GMT 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>s5 Subject: Re: Why not we guys buy OpenVMS from Compaq?u' Message-ID: <3C8D7D90.8109308C@fsi.net>o   "Terry C. Shannon" wrote:  > [referring to OVMS]vE > A shame that the OS is not promoted and marketed more aggressively.   C I've heard that somewhere, before. Elusive just now, however... ;-)y   -- t David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systemsn http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/M   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 00:38:41 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>15 Subject: Re: Why not we guys buy OpenVMS from Compaq?e, Message-ID: <3C8D9450.B6996889@videotron.ca>   VMS Fan wrote:D > I'd love to see HPaq itself do this, of course, but it would placeF > them squarely in competition with Microsoft, and they don't have the > guts to do that.  M You might start to find all the dream features you mentioned in Tandem's NSK.   J I think that at this point in time, HP may not kill VMS officially. But itM will remain an obscure unmarketed product essentially continuing only for the K remaining customer base. But just as HP-UX will inherit sufficient featuresoK from Tru64 to allow Tru64 users to migrate to IA64, I suspect that Tandem'soW NSK may inherit some of the VMS features it doesn't have to allow VMS users to migrate.   M I would not be surprised at all if the VMS port to IA64 were cancelled. Parts,+ of VMS will make it to IA64, but under NSK.   G VMS was meant to be versatile and not have any niches. The cost of thisiM versatility is that it isn't *quite* good enough to replace NSK in true faultfM tolerant applications, and is way too good/expensive to replace Unix and NT. y  N Is there really enough room between Unix and NSK for VMS to make a living ? MyN fear is that HP will see VMS as a duplication of NSK and Unix with no real gapI to fill in the product line. Perfect candidate for product consolidation.1   ------------------------------    Date: 11 Mar 2002 21:09:19 -0800" From: VMSfan@hotmail.com (VMS Fan)5 Subject: Re: Why not we guys buy OpenVMS from Compaq? = Message-ID: <d0a53e6e.0203112109.13ad28ca@posting.google.com>a  h "john smith" <Xudongzong.0974@rogers.com> wrote in message news:<DnKi8.66806$xG.28928@news2.bloor.is>...N > Looks like have a lot concerns with OpenVMS future. I am wondering if we canI > set  up a new company can buy OpenVMS from Compaq. So we do not need tos > worry about too much." > 3 > Will it cost 2 billions? Not sure if is feasible.t  B I doubt HPaq would sell VMS like DEC sold PDP-11s to Mentec.  MoreF likely they'd end-of-life it like the HP e3000 & MPE/iX.  I also doubt they'd open-source it.  ? I think the only viable option will turn out to be for the user1@ community and folks who love what VMS stands for to rally for an? effort like the GNU Project plus Linux.  (That means compilers, A kernel, utilities, RTLs, and key layered products.  It won't be ae? small project, but I see it as the only way to ensure long-terma viability.)n  B But I don't see just duplicating VMS in open source as the answer, either.   A VMS is seen as an ancient operating system, of little interest to F folks today.  Computer Science students don't know beans about it, but= they "know" it is "bad", or, at best, unimportant.  Go to any @ bookstore and you can easily measure what is seen as interesting@ technology today, by simply measuring shelf presence.  Linux, inD contrast to VMS, is seen as new and exciting, even though it's based* on Unix technology that is older than VMS.  A A brand-new operating system seems the best option.  Build on the E historical strengths of VMS, like clustering, high availability, useriA friendliness, reliability, careful & logical design, high-qualityrF engineering effort, excellent documentation, and upward compatibility,C but target today's market needs (e.g the Internet, IP networks, WebrE interfaces, home users' desktop software needs), and at the same time-C dramatically eliminate today's biggest market gripes (poor softwareg> reliability, too many reboots & re-installs, viruses and otherF security issues), while focusing on today's hardware technology (IA-32B and probably AMD-64 as the CPU focus, but allowing ports to POWER,C SPARC, Alpha, etc. as people wish, just like Linux does; USB ports;y> mainstream video adapters; IDE disks in addition to SCSI & FC; Firewire; InfiniBand, etc.).  B With a new operating system, one could fix many limitations of VMSE that we've had to work around or just learned to live with, like pooreD SMP scalability (that's really what Galaxy and partitions have endedE up being mostly about with regard to VMS, if you think about it), thenC need to reboot to install patches and updates (we can't even reload1B drivers on Alpha today) or add or remove hardware, the tendency toC crash when problems arise (how about an OS which never crashes, but A instead has extensive and stubborn recovery code and self-healinghB abilities), lack of process shadowing, lack of checkpoint/restart,C easy portability to other platforms by virtue of being written in a B high-level language, presence of a logical volume manager to allow: things like expanding the size of volumes on-the-fly, etc.  B I'd love to see HPaq itself do this, of course, but it would placeD them squarely in competition with Microsoft, and they don't have the guts to do that. ----2 VMS: "Rumors of my death are greatly exacerbated."   ------------------------------    Date: 11 Mar 2002 18:16:14 -0800. From: spamsink2001@yahoo.com (Alan E. Feldman)E Subject: [OT]  NY Times Op-Ed misses point about unreliablity of PC'sp= Message-ID: <b096a4ee.0203111816.3b3cf1a4@posting.google.com>.   Hello fellow VMSers!!!  + Check out this Op-Ed in The New York Times:   9     http://www.nytimes.com/2002/03/11/opinion/11ZITT.htmlu  / I quote a small part of it (fair use, I think):w  E For most forms of current technology, these questions have long been .E settled. No executives are worried about illegal uses of televisions oD or coffee makers, for instance, and no consumers need to worry that D these appliances will crash or become infected with viruses; and we E would never accept it if they did. Our TV's and VCR's don't take ill aE when we watch infected programs, and our refrigerators never require e
 rebooting.  = Yet we have come to tolerate such problems from our personal pD computers. The PC's fundamental and unique unreliability flows from B its construction as a so-called flexible platform; a mere staging B area for many kinds of software. The point (and bane) of a PC is, 4 essentially, to run whatever software it encounters.   [end of quote]  > Shouldn't that be "the point and band of a PC is its defectiveF operating system?" or "a mere staging area allowing any old program to> have complete control of the computer"? And of course he never4 mentions all the security holes, patch du jour, etc.  @ The main point of this article is a power struggle between mediaD congolmerates and hardware manufactures over control of content. The< author implies that there is an unavoidable tradeoff between7 flexibility to run any software and computer stability.h  = Is this what most people think about computers? that they areoD unavoidably buggy? What about creating a VMS-like OS for PC's? Would that not solve the problem?e  " Does this not deserve a response?    Disclaimer: JMHO Alan E. Feldmanh5 "Help me help you help me help you"  -- Bob Pattersong   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 03:02:31 GMTt1 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com>.I Subject: Re: [OT]  NY Times Op-Ed misses point about unreliablity of PC's 9 Message-ID: <bdej8.15801$44.3516132@typhoon.ne.ipsvc.net>e  ; "Alan E. Feldman" <spamsink2001@yahoo.com> wrote in messagee7 news:b096a4ee.0203111816.3b3cf1a4@posting.google.com...e > Hello fellow VMSers!!! > - > Check out this Op-Ed in The New York Times:  >s; >     http://www.nytimes.com/2002/03/11/opinion/11ZITT.html  >c1 > I quote a small part of it (fair use, I think):a >a >t? > Is this what most people think about computers? that they areh@ > unavoidably buggy? What about creating a VMS-like OS for PC's?  > Microsoft tried it. The result was Windows NT and its progeny.   >Would > that not solve the problem?o   It hasn't yet!   >s# > Does this not deserve a response?n  K Yep. VMS *and desktop applications* on IPF. Of course, it'll be a few yearshF before 64-bit desktops generate much volume, hence there won't be muchL reason for personal productivity app developers to invest their resources in a VMS/IPF port.   K Which is too bad... a reliable alternative to Windows would put the fear ofm, God in a certain ISV in Redmond, Washington.   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 03:55:30 GMTi* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>I Subject: Re: [OT]  NY Times Op-Ed misses point about unreliablity of PC's C Message-ID: <S_ej8.425265$eS3.32206914@bin3.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>t  ; "Alan E. Feldman" <spamsink2001@yahoo.com> wrote in messages7 news:b096a4ee.0203111816.3b3cf1a4@posting.google.com...o > Hello fellow VMSers!!! > - > Check out this Op-Ed in The New York Times:  >v; >     http://www.nytimes.com/2002/03/11/opinion/11ZITT.htmlk > 1 > I quote a small part of it (fair use, I think):  >iF > For most forms of current technology, these questions have long beenF > settled. No executives are worried about illegal uses of televisionsE > or coffee makers, for instance, and no consumers need to worry that E > these appliances will crash or become infected with viruses; and wesF > would never accept it if they did. Our TV's and VCR's don't take illF > when we watch infected programs, and our refrigerators never require > rebooting. >:> > Yet we have come to tolerate such problems from our personalE > computers. The PC's fundamental and unique unreliability flows from8C > its construction as a so-called flexible platform; a mere stagingpC > area for many kinds of software. The point (and bane) of a PC is, 6 > essentially, to run whatever software it encounters. >l > [end of quote] > @ > Shouldn't that be "the point and band of a PC is its defectiveH > operating system?" or "a mere staging area allowing any old program to@ > have complete control of the computer"? And of course he never6 > mentions all the security holes, patch du jour, etc. >eB > The main point of this article is a power struggle between mediaF > congolmerates and hardware manufactures over control of content. The> > author implies that there is an unavoidable tradeoff between9 > flexibility to run any software and computer stability.o  J The author seems to be confusing two different kinds of 'reliability':  onL the one hand, being able to run whatever a user wants it to run (IMO a plus,G though anathema to those who would like to control how people use theirsE PCs), and on the other the ability to avoid crashes, corruption, etc.a   >a? > Is this what most people think about computers? that they areeF > unavoidably buggy? What about creating a VMS-like OS for PC's? Would > that not solve the problem?e  K No, it would not.  While the article's author created a mish-mash by mixingsI in the issue of system stability with that of content use-control, as you-K state the *main* thrust of the article is the latter and has very little toeG do at all with the underlying stability of the OS (or 'unreliability ofp PCs').  K VMS would be just as objectionable to the media conglomerates as Windows isaL unless it incorporated content-use controls (and Windows continued not to doJ so).  Conversely, if Windows incorporated content-use controls it would beJ just as acceptable to those conglomerates as VMS with content-use controls	 would be.i   - bill   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 04:26:10 GMTw1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>iI Subject: Re: [OT]  NY Times Op-Ed misses point about unreliablity of PC's ' Message-ID: <3C8D84F1.FE8808A4@fsi.net>d   "Terry C. Shannon" wrote:M > = > "Alan E. Feldman" <spamsink2001@yahoo.com> wrote in messagei9 > news:b096a4ee.0203111816.3b3cf1a4@posting.google.com...m > > Hello fellow VMSers!!! > > / > > Check out this Op-Ed in The New York Times:- > >-= > >     http://www.nytimes.com/2002/03/11/opinion/11ZITT.htmli > >e3 > > I quote a small part of it (fair use, I think):u > >y > >VA > > Is this what most people think about computers? that they areTB > > unavoidably buggy? What about creating a VMS-like OS for PC's? > @ > Microsoft tried it. The result was Windows NT and its progeny. >  > >Would > > that not solve the problem?  >  > It hasn't yet! >  > >n% > > Does this not deserve a response?g > M > Yep. VMS *and desktop applications* on IPF. Of course, it'll be a few yearsiH > before 64-bit desktops generate much volume, hence there won't be muchN > reason for personal productivity app developers to invest their resources in > a VMS/IPF port.s > M > Which is too bad... a reliable alternative to Windows would put the fear of . > God in a certain ISV in Redmond, Washington.  D Say, "Linux", "KDE", "Koffice", "Gnome", "OpenOffice", and others...  D I am discovering that in large measure, "*BSD" can be substituted in, place of "Linux", with a few reservations...   -- d David J. Dachterah dba DJE Systemsx http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/u   ------------------------------    Date: 11 Mar 2002 13:33:57 -0600B From: clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP (Simon Clubley)E Subject: [OT] US/Europe living costs, was: Re: VMS sys admin salaries.3 Message-ID: <zG79ow7u2xZ+@eisner.encompasserve.org>a  c In article <OJxw3PA788To@eisner.encompasserve.org>, Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) writes:ne > In article <u8l9dsac3n3lb1@news.supernews.com>, "Island (hpaq.net)" <dbturner@islandco.com> writes:n+ >> You see why people move to the USA ?!?!?e > ) > Because it offers more cost-of-living ?m  E I have wondered about this whenever higher US salaries are mentioned. @ Just what are the costs of living in the US compared to Europe ?  J For example, in the UK, all medical care is provided by the state (withoutL charge except for routine dental/eye care which is heavily subsidised). It'sE paid for though taxes, but you get the care regardless of whether youe are employed or not.  J What percentage of a US salary would be used for providing for things like5 this, and how what happens if you become unemployed ?>  > [Since this is now _very_ OT, feel free to follow up in email]   Simon.   -- MB Simon Clubley, clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP       + Microsoft: The Lada of the computing world.    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 03:49:52 GMT 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>oI Subject: Re: [OT] US/Europe living costs, was: Re: VMS sys admin salariese' Message-ID: <3C8D7C6D.C8390AA7@fsi.net>i   Simon Clubley wrote: > e > In article <OJxw3PA788To@eisner.encompasserve.org>, Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) writes: g > > In article <u8l9dsac3n3lb1@news.supernews.com>, "Island (hpaq.net)" <dbturner@islandco.com> writes:b- > >> You see why people move to the USA ?!?!?i > >A+ > > Because it offers more cost-of-living ?y > G > I have wondered about this whenever higher US salaries are mentioned.0B > Just what are the costs of living in the US compared to Europe ? > L > For example, in the UK, all medical care is provided by the state (withoutN > charge except for routine dental/eye care which is heavily subsidised). It'sG > paid for though taxes, but you get the care regardless of whether you> > are employed or not. > L > What percentage of a US salary would be used for providing for things like7 > this, and how what happens if you become unemployed ?l > @ > [Since this is now _very_ OT, feel free to follow up in email]  A When I was in the hospital 2 days prior to Fall '99 DECUS (kidneySG stone), a room and care (blood/urine tests, MRI, Iv saline and one shotrI of morphine) for roughly 48 hours came to somewhere close to $6,000 U.S. M  H This past week, a blood draw and battery of blood tests (trying to trackG down a hormone imbalance) came to some $240 + $40 for the office visit.d   Draw your own conclusions.   -- W David J. DachteraO dba DJE Systemsq http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2002.139 ************************