1 INFO-VAX	Fri, 15 Mar 2002	Volume 2002 : Issue 146       Contents:' Re: Adding Disks to a Alpha Server 2100 ' Re: Adding Disks to a Alpha Server 2100  Re: Antigen found =*.exe file  Re: Antigen found =*.exe file  RE: Architecture Re: compaction ratio on a TZ89 compaction ratio on a TZ89 Re: compaction ratio on a TZ892 Re: DFU report wrong number of free file headers ?2 Re: DFU report wrong number of free file headers ?2 Re: DFU report wrong number of free file headers ?2 Re: DFU report wrong number of free file headers ?! Re: ES40s have bandwidth to burn? ! Re: ES40s have bandwidth to burn? M explicit DSNlink articles pointer in FAQ? (was: Re: VFC File         Problem) ( Re: FORTRAN (was: Re: R.I.P. OpenVMS...)( Re: FORTRAN (was: Re: R.I.P. OpenVMS...)G Re: HP's viewpoint on Linux, was: Re: Sun eating major helping of Linux G Re: HP's viewpoint on Linux, was: Re: Sun eating major helping of Linux G Re: HP's viewpoint on Linux, was: Re: Sun eating major helping of Linux G Re: HP's viewpoint on Linux, was: Re: Sun eating major helping of Linux G Re: HP's viewpoint on Linux, was: Re: Sun eating major helping of Linux G Re: HP's viewpoint on Linux, was: Re: Sun eating major helping of Linux G RE: HP's viewpoint on Linux, was: Re: Sun eating major helping of Linux G Re: HP's viewpoint on Linux, was: Re: Sun eating major helping of Linux  Re: HSZ10 looking for info...  lpd printing + telnetqueue Re: lpd printing + telnetqueue Re: lpd printing + telnetqueue4 Re: Online reference guide to ANSI/VT-ESC-commands ?4 Re: Online reference guide to ANSI/VT-ESC-commands ?4 Re: Online reference guide to ANSI/VT-ESC-commands ?4 Re: Online reference guide to ANSI/VT-ESC-commands ?4 Re: Online reference guide to ANSI/VT-ESC-commands ?4 Re: Online reference guide to ANSI/VT-ESC-commands ?0 Re: OT: AOL "whiners" for suing MS over Netscape0 Re: OT: AOL "whiners" for suing MS over Netscape0 Re: OT: AOL "whiners" for suing MS over Netscape	 Pathworks 
 Re: Pathworks 
 Re: Pathworks  Problem Solved.  Re: Question for Andrew  Relax, it is just a merge . . .  Sick AS2100 " sleep() in Older versions of DEC C& Re: sleep() in Older versions of DEC C& Re: sleep() in Older versions of DEC C& Re: sleep() in Older versions of DEC C& Re: sleep() in Older versions of DEC C& Re: sleep() in Older versions of DEC C& Re: sleep() in Older versions of DEC C& Re: sleep() in Older versions of DEC C& Re: sleep() in Older versions of DEC C& Re: sleep() in Older versions of DEC C& Re: sleep() in Older versions of DEC C& Re: sleep() in Older versions of DEC C& Re: sleep() in Older versions of DEC C& Re: sleep() in Older versions of DEC C& Re: sleep() in Older versions of DEC C& Re: sleep() in Older versions of DEC CD Re: TCPIP, sharing sockets via $QIO (programming, long and detailed)D Re: TCPIP, sharing sockets via $QIO (programming, long and detailed)D Re: TCPIP, sharing sockets via $QIO (programming, long and detailed)2 Re: There is nothing like performing a REALM walk? Timing of vote Re: Timing of vote Re: Timing of vote Re: Timing of vote6 Use Logical name for both DEV: and [dir] in AUTHORIZE?: Re: Use Logical name for both DEV: and [dir] in AUTHORIZE?: Re: Use Logical name for both DEV: and [dir] in AUTHORIZE?: Re: Use Logical name for both DEV: and [dir] in AUTHORIZE?: Re: Use Logical name for both DEV: and [dir] in AUTHORIZE?P Re: Viability of the VMS Market for third party vendors -- and an opportunity/ch9 Re: Walter Hewlett says HP board is really against merger 9 Re: Walter Hewlett says HP board is really against merger  Wanted SupportFreaks.com Scouts * Re: Who's got a working 11/750 in Germany?? Re: Why not ODBC Direct Access? Codasyl DBMS Data on Oracle Rdb , Re: Why not we guys buy OpenVMS from Compaq?  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------    Date: 15 Mar 2002 07:38:43 -0000= From: Doc.Cypher <Use-Author-Supplied-Address-Header@[127.1]> 0 Subject: Re: Adding Disks to a Alpha Server 21006 Message-ID: <20020315073843.29480.qmail@gacracker.org>  1 On 14 Mar 2002, cor.mom@momss.nl (Cor Mom) wrote:  >Rob,  > B >I think you will have to run a special RAID Configuration consoleD >program (I cannot remember it's exact name) from the boot prompt. ID >recently did it on a AlphaServer DS10 with the console program on a= >floppy disk. It should have been delivered with your system.   / It has some godawful name like swxcrmgr (IIRC).      Doc. --  6 The bigger the humbug, the better people will like it.K ~ Phineas Taylor Barnum.                              http://vmsbox.cjb.net    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 14:22:45 GMT - From: "John E. Malmberg" <wb8tyw@qsl.network> 0 Subject: Re: Adding Disks to a Alpha Server 2100* Message-ID: <3C9205C9.5080508@qsl.network>   Cor Mom wrote: > Rob, > C > I think you will have to run a special RAID Configuration console E > program (I cannot remember it's exact name) from the boot prompt. I E > recently did it on a AlphaServer DS10 with the console program on a > > floppy disk. It should have been delivered with your system.  G If this is using one of the SWCXR variants, Te console program is also  C on the firmware CDROM.  Running it from the firmware CDROM is much  ' faster than running it from the floppy.    -John  wb8tyw@qsl.network Personal Opinion Only    ------------------------------   Date: 15 Mar 2002 06:32:23 CDT= From: wayne@tachysoft.xxx.564897.killspam.00c7 (Wayne Sewell) & Subject: Re: Antigen found =*.exe file. Message-ID: <rFXr8vPoGCu$@tachxxsoftxxconsult>  i In article <55f85d77.0203140349.313ac7b6@posting.google.com>, P.Young@unsw.EDU.AU (Patrick Young) writes:    > ; > If I want to email an OpenVMS .EXE, .COM or .BAS over the > > network as an attachment, why should I have to "consider M$"+ > and rename it for crying out loud ???????  >   M This is just one of the *many* miseries of trying to live in the billyworld.  N There a large number of stupid things we must do because *other* people insistC on running garbage operating systems and we have to deal with them.        --  O =============================================================================== M Wayne Sewell, Tachyon Software Consulting  (281)812-0738  wayne@tachysoft.xxx : http://www.tachysoft.xxx/www/tachyon.html and wayne.html  K change .xxx to .com in addresses above, assuming you are not a spambot  :-) O =============================================================================== = Society Lady:  Are you familiar with the Great Wall of China? 5        Curly:  No, but I know a big fence in Chicago!    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 16:53:43 -0000 5 From: "Robert A.M. van Lopik" <lopik@mail.telepac.pt> & Subject: Re: Antigen found =*.exe file$ Message-ID: <3c9227a1$1@news.wau.nl>  J "Wayne Sewell" <wayne@tachysoft.xxx.564897.killspam.00c7> wrote in message( news:rFXr8vPoGCu$@tachxxsoftxxconsult...? > In article <55f85d77.0203140349.313ac7b6@posting.google.com>, + P.Young@unsw.EDU.AU (Patrick Young) writes:  >  > > = > > If I want to email an OpenVMS .EXE, .COM or .BAS over the @ > > network as an attachment, why should I have to "consider M$"- > > and rename it for crying out loud ???????  > >  > B > This is just one of the *many* miseries of trying to live in the billyworld. I > There a large number of stupid things we must do because *other* people  insistE > on running garbage operating systems and we have to deal with them.  > J Both VMS and Windows call there executables .EXE. In the world we live in,H it is not wise to indiscriminately mail executables around. When I don'tG trust my people that they won't accept exec's from unknown sources, the K easiest thing to do is to block them at the front door. This has nothing to H do with VMS or Windows! Unless you want to believe that VMS programs are? only written by "good guys" and windows programs by "bad guys".    regards 
 rob van lopik    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 11:05:40 -0500 + From: "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@Compaq.com>  Subject: RE: Architecture T Message-ID: <BE56C50EA024184DAF48F0B9A47F5CF4016CEBDE@kaoexc01.americas.cpqcorp.net>   Usman,  5 >>> I need the Design architecture of the DACTalk.>>>   G I suspect that you might mean DECtalk. If so, the following urls may be  of assistance:& http://www.fonix.com/products/dectalk/6 http://www.fonix.com/products/dectalk/applications.php   Regards   
 Kerry Main Senior Consultant  Compaq Canada Corp.  Professional Services  Voice: 613-592-4660  Fax  :  819-772-7036 Email: Kerry.Main@Compaq.com     -----Original Message-----+ From: MSCS007 [mailto:MSCS007@nu.edu.pk]=20  Sent: March 13, 2002 3:20 AM To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com  Subject: Architecture      Dear Sir =20 F I need the Design architecture of the DACTalk. I am a graduate student/ and my area of research is speech synthesis.=20 C Kindlly if you have the architecture or you have some relevent link  please tell me.    Regards  Usman Afzal  Graduate Student=20 
 www.nu.edu   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 15:20:11 +0100 + From: "David Otten" <David.otten@gtech.com> ' Subject: Re: compaction ratio on a TZ89 ) Message-ID: <a6svv0$qle6@news1.gtech.com>   < It depends very much on the type of files you're backing up.  1 Files with lots of repetition  = Good compression / Loads of text files = normally good compression / Files with little repetition = Bad compression. I Exes, Gifs, JPEGS, MPEGS, ZIPs (anything that's already been compressed -  Bad.  6 Under a "nominal" 2:1 compression, 70Gb can be stored.     David   ) "Peter" <zouzou@zou.com> wrote in message . news:9hnk8.3629$a04.18376@tor-nn1.netcom.ca...: > Does anyone know what the compaction ratio is on a TZ89?K > Is it hardware or software compaction (harware would be fixed ratio where  > soft could vary) > I > The tape is 35GB, but at the time I save more than 85GB on it and don't  knowH > if I'm close to getting a message in the middle of the night asking to load? > a second tape... I want to take measures before this happens.  >  > Thanks >  > -- > 	 > Syltrem K > http://pages.infinit.net/syltrem (OpenVMS related web site - en franais) @ > To reply to myself directly, remove .spammenot from my address >  >  >    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 09:12:07 -0500  From: "Peter" <zouzou@zou.com># Subject: compaction ratio on a TZ89 4 Message-ID: <9hnk8.3629$a04.18376@tor-nn1.netcom.ca>  8 Does anyone know what the compaction ratio is on a TZ89?I Is it hardware or software compaction (harware would be fixed ratio where  soft could vary)  L The tape is 35GB, but at the time I save more than 85GB on it and don't knowK if I'm close to getting a message in the middle of the night asking to load = a second tape... I want to take measures before this happens.    Thanks   --   Syltrem I http://pages.infinit.net/syltrem (OpenVMS related web site - en franais) > To reply to myself directly, remove .spammenot from my address   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 10:09:40 -0500 0 From: "Syltrem" <syltremspammenot@videotron.com>' Subject: Re: compaction ratio on a TZ89 4 Message-ID: <67ok8.3638$a04.18610@tor-nn1.netcom.ca>  " You mean it's software compaction.I Then is there any way of knowing how much tape (% of length) is available  after the current position?   G With the older technology (rings) you could see. With the cassettes you  don't know.    --   Syltrem I http://pages.infinit.net/syltrem (OpenVMS related web site - en franais) > To reply to myself directly, remove .spammenot from my address  F "David Otten" <David.otten@gtech.com> a crit dans le message de news: a6svv0$qle6@news1.gtech.com...> > It depends very much on the type of files you're backing up. > 3 > Files with lots of repetition  = Good compression 1 > Loads of text files = normally good compression 1 > Files with little repetition = Bad compression. K > Exes, Gifs, JPEGS, MPEGS, ZIPs (anything that's already been compressed -  > Bad. > 8 > Under a "nominal" 2:1 compression, 70Gb can be stored. >  >  > David  > + > "Peter" <zouzou@zou.com> wrote in message 0 > news:9hnk8.3629$a04.18376@tor-nn1.netcom.ca...< > > Does anyone know what the compaction ratio is on a TZ89?G > > Is it hardware or software compaction (harware would be fixed ratio  where  > > soft could vary) > > K > > The tape is 35GB, but at the time I save more than 85GB on it and don't  > knowJ > > if I'm close to getting a message in the middle of the night asking to > loadA > > a second tape... I want to take measures before this happens.  > > 
 > > Thanks > >  > > -- > >  > > Syltrem C > > http://pages.infinit.net/syltrem (OpenVMS related web site - en 	 franais) B > > To reply to myself directly, remove .spammenot from my address > >  > >  > >  >  >    ------------------------------    Date: 15 Mar 2002 05:04:32 -0800 From: sam@ratex.dk (Sam); Subject: Re: DFU report wrong number of free file headers ? < Message-ID: <d1111de.0203150504.2c438759@posting.google.com>  	 Hi Folks.    Thank you for the answers.B I have initialized a lot of volumes of the same size, most of them containsF more than a 1.000.000 files and some of them more 2.000.000 files. All3 of them show wrong free headers in the DFU reports.   D I was watching the report on a volume as I was loading files onto it and D the number of free headers in the reports kept going up and down but2 never showed more than around 75.000 free headers.  E I just thougt it was convinient to check free headers using DFU but I 5 guess I still have to use another method to avoid the  "SYSTEM-W-HEADERFULL" C in my nevertheless successfull moving files and printer queues from  dos/ntD servers to VMS servers although still fighting VMS backup to do some kind of D incremental backups without having to backup millions of files every day.   Sam.  ` "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote in message news:<3C9157BE.2FCD1BDA@fsi.net>... > "Kenneth H. Fairfield" wrote:  > >  > > Roy Omond wrote: > >  > > > Sam wrote: > > >  > > > > Hi Folks.  > > > > M > > > > On an Alpha 4100 with OpenVMS 7.2-1 with all pathes up-to-date I have 3 > > > > initialized an ODS5 disk volume as follows:  > > > > , > > > > $ initialize    $1$dga131: disk131 - > > > >         /system -  > > > >         /structure=5 -( > > > >         /maximum_files=2500000 -" > > > >         /headers=5000000 -" > > > >         /directories=256 -! > > > >         /cluster_size=3 -  > > > >         /windows=40 -  > > > >         /nohighwater > > >  > > > [...snip...] > > >  > > > /Headers=5000000	 > > > and  > > > /Maximum_Files=2500000 > > > G > > > 5.000.000 is a little more than 2.500.000 (it's almost double :-)  > > > % > > > Try again with sensible values.  > > A > > But DFU is still reporting unreasonable values: only 934 free = > > headers. Either the INITIALIZE failed in some manner (was < > > there any error message for /HEADERS > /MAXIMUM_FILES ?)< > > or DFU has gotten "lost in space" on the ODS-5 volume... > >  > >     -Ken > % > I've seen more than one bug in DFU.  > & > In Sam's case, I might have an idea: >  > Sam wrote: > > 
 > > Hi Folks.  > > I > > On an Alpha 4100 with OpenVMS 7.2-1 with all pathes up-to-date I have / > > initialized an ODS5 disk volume as follows:  > > ( > > $ initialize    $1$dga131: disk131 - > >         /system -  > >         /structure=5 -$ > >         /maximum_files=2500000 - > >         /headers=5000000 - > >         /directories=256 - > >         /cluster_size=3 -  > >         /windows=40 -  > >         /nohighwater > > $! > > L > > I have some 11 big files on the disk, and now I would like to use it for8 > > directory tree containing about 350.000 small files. > . > YYYYEEECCCCHHH!!! Well, be that as it may... > L > > But when I look at the DFU report of the disk, I'm surprised to see thatM > > there is only a header count of 1010 and 934 free headers. Why is it so ?  > I > Well, based on my admittedly limited understanding and leaving open the G > possibility of a DFU bug, I'd the expect the reason to be that you've G > freshly INITIALIZEd the volume. Thus, the highwater marks in both the G > INDEXF.SYS file header and in the INDEXF.SYS bitmap to be set a their, > newly INIT'd positions.r > M > > I would have expected at least 2 million free headers. Should I not trust # > > the numbers in the DFU report ?: > >  > > Samn > >  > > $ dfu report disk131 > > 7 > >      Disk and File Utilities for OpenVMS DFU V2.7-A  > >      Freeware versionn5 > >      Copyright  2000 COMPAQ Computer Corporation: > > 5 > > %DFU-I-REPORT, Reporting on DISK131: ($1$DGA131:)q > > L > >       ***** Volume info for ODS5 volume DISK131: (from HOME block) *****0 > >  Volume name                      :  DISK131' > >  Volume owner                     :S' > >  Volume set name                  :o0 > >  Highwater mark. / Erase on del.  :  No / No* > >  Cluster size                     :  30 > >  Maximum # files                  :  2500000- > >  Header count                     :  1010s, > >  First header VBN                 :  624, > >  Free headers                     :  934 > > 7 > >       ***** File Statistics (from INDEXF.SYS) *****g? > >  INDEXF.SYS fragments/ map_in_use :  4 /11 words ( 7% used) 0 > >  Total files (ODS2 / ODS5)        :  10 / 11* > >  Empty files                      :  5+ > >  Files with allocation            :  16p* > >  Files with extension headers     :  0* > >  Files marked for delete          :  0* > >  Directory files                  :  2+ > >  Contiguous files                 :  15s; > >  Total used/ allocated size       :  21006013 /23505027e+ > >  Total fragments                  :  19o. > >  Average fragments per file       :  1.188; > >  File fragmentation index         :  0.410  (excellent)r0 > >  Average size per fragment        :  1237106' > >  Most fragmented file             :hJ > >     $1$DGA131:[000000]INDEXF.SYS;1 ( 1633/2500623 blocks; 4 fragments) > J > I am troubled that INDEXF.SYS was only pre-extended by the MAXIMUM_FILESI > value, instead of the HEADERS value, which is what I would expect basedr > on past experience.  > J > My understanding of these qualifiers is that /MAXIMUM_FILES controls howI > the INDEXF.SYS bitmap is pre-allocated while /HEADERS controls how manyvJ > disk blocks are actually allocated to INDEXF.SYS. Then again, the valuesG > you used demonstrate a possible inconsistency. Perhaps the newer code H > corrects for this - quietly (maybe needs a -I- message to let you know > you did a dum-dum).s > I > It looks like I may be wrong about either or both of those. So, I'll beeH > watching this thread to see where my understand needs to be clarified. >  > > = > >       ***** Free space statistics (from BITMAP.SYS) ***** 1 > >  Total blocks on disk             :  88820885t1 > >  Total free blocks                :  65315859o+ > >  Percentage free (rounded)        :  25s* > >  Total free extents               :  4J > >  Largest free extent              :  41902575  blocks at LBN: 469183081 > >  Average extent size (rounded)    :  16328964-; > >  Free space fragmentation index   :  0.000  (excellent)  > > & > > %DFU-I-READY, REPORT command ready > > $u > G > It has it's faults, but DFU is a great little piece of freeware, IMO.- > H > Try writing to the author, Ton dot Dorland at compaq dot com. Maybe he > knows, if he's still there.n   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 14:18:51 +0100g9 From: Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com>w; Subject: Re: DFU report wrong number of free file headers ?M' Message-ID: <3C91F4BB.84E106C8@aaa.com>p  E Isn't DFU just reporting the number of free headers in the INDEX file " in the part *up to the EOF mark* ?  / If you look at this line from your DFU output :.  D "$1$DGA131:[000000]INDEXF.SYS;1 ( 1633/2500623 blocks; 4 fragments)"  E to me it says that the INDEXF.SYS is allocated to 2500623 blocks, but @ currently olny uses 1633 blocks. Check with dir/size=all and I'm sure you get the same values.P  B So what DFU says is that there are 934 "free headers" in this 1633 blocks.e  A I'd guess that DFU can't "see" past the current EOF in INDEXF.SYS   F When you add files to the device, I'd think that this 1633 blocks getsH filled up (and the "free headers" in DFU gets lower) until more space in theaG INDEX file gets used (the 1633 number jumps up) and then also the "free  headers" in DFU jumps up.u   Just a thought...h   Jan-Erik Sderholm.t   ------------------------------    Date: 15 Mar 2002 06:28:47 -0800. From: SPAMSINK2001@YAHOO.COM (Alan E. Feldman); Subject: Re: DFU report wrong number of free file headers ?s= Message-ID: <343f30ae.0203150628.34f445be@posting.google.com>   ` "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote in message news:<3C9157BE.2FCD1BDA@fsi.net>... > "Kenneth H. Fairfield" wrote:m > >  > > Roy Omond wrote: > >  > > > Sam wrote: > > >  > > > > Hi Folks.- > > > >-M > > > > On an Alpha 4100 with OpenVMS 7.2-1 with all pathes up-to-date I haveU3 > > > > initialized an ODS5 disk volume as follows:- > > > >1, > > > > $ initialize    $1$dga131: disk131 - > > > >         /system -  > > > >         /structure=5 -( > > > >         /maximum_files=2500000 -" > > > >         /headers=5000000 -" > > > >         /directories=256 -! > > > >         /cluster_size=3 -g > > > >         /windows=40 -s > > > >         /nohighwater > > >v > > > [...snip...] > > >s > > > /Headers=5000000	 > > > andh > > > /Maximum_Files=2500000 > > >nG > > > 5.000.000 is a little more than 2.500.000 (it's almost double :-)t > > >t% > > > Try again with sensible values.s > > A > > But DFU is still reporting unreasonable values: only 934 freeS= > > headers. Either the INITIALIZE failed in some manner (wase< > > there any error message for /HEADERS > /MAXIMUM_FILES ?)< > > or DFU has gotten "lost in space" on the ODS-5 volume... > >  > >     -Ken > % > I've seen more than one bug in DFU.a > & > In Sam's case, I might have an idea: >  > Sam wrote: > > 
 > > Hi Folks.9 > > I > > On an Alpha 4100 with OpenVMS 7.2-1 with all pathes up-to-date I have / > > initialized an ODS5 disk volume as follows:i > > ( > > $ initialize    $1$dga131: disk131 - > >         /system -l > >         /structure=5 -$ > >         /maximum_files=2500000 - > >         /headers=5000000 - > >         /directories=256 - > >         /cluster_size=3 -  > >         /windows=40 -u > >         /nohighwater > > $! > > L > > I have some 11 big files on the disk, and now I would like to use it for8 > > directory tree containing about 350.000 small files. > . > YYYYEEECCCCHHH!!! Well, be that as it may... > L > > But when I look at the DFU report of the disk, I'm surprised to see thatM > > there is only a header count of 1010 and 934 free headers. Why is it so ?t > I > Well, based on my admittedly limited understanding and leaving open the G > possibility of a DFU bug, I'd the expect the reason to be that you'veeG > freshly INITIALIZEd the volume. Thus, the highwater marks in both the G > INDEXF.SYS file header and in the INDEXF.SYS bitmap to be set a theirn > newly INIT'd positions.  > M > > I would have expected at least 2 million free headers. Should I not trustg# > > the numbers in the DFU report ?  > >  > > Sams > >  > > $ dfu report disk131 > > 7 > >      Disk and File Utilities for OpenVMS DFU V2.7-Aa > >      Freeware versions5 > >      Copyright  2000 COMPAQ Computer Corporation1 > > 5 > > %DFU-I-REPORT, Reporting on DISK131: ($1$DGA131:)  > > L > >       ***** Volume info for ODS5 volume DISK131: (from HOME block) *****0 > >  Volume name                      :  DISK131' > >  Volume owner                     :w' > >  Volume set name                  :g0 > >  Highwater mark. / Erase on del.  :  No / No* > >  Cluster size                     :  30 > >  Maximum # files                  :  2500000- > >  Header count                     :  1010t, > >  First header VBN                 :  624, > >  Free headers                     :  934 > > 7 > >       ***** File Statistics (from INDEXF.SYS) *****n? > >  INDEXF.SYS fragments/ map_in_use :  4 /11 words ( 7% used)s0 > >  Total files (ODS2 / ODS5)        :  10 / 11* > >  Empty files                      :  5+ > >  Files with allocation            :  16 * > >  Files with extension headers     :  0* > >  Files marked for delete          :  0* > >  Directory files                  :  2+ > >  Contiguous files                 :  15 ; > >  Total used/ allocated size       :  21006013 /23505027*+ > >  Total fragments                  :  19E. > >  Average fragments per file       :  1.188; > >  File fragmentation index         :  0.410  (excellent)e0 > >  Average size per fragment        :  1237106' > >  Most fragmented file             :hJ > >     $1$DGA131:[000000]INDEXF.SYS;1 ( 1633/2500623 blocks; 4 fragments) > J > I am troubled that INDEXF.SYS was only pre-extended by the MAXIMUM_FILESI > value, instead of the HEADERS value, which is what I would expect baseds > on past experience.P > J > My understanding of these qualifiers is that /MAXIMUM_FILES controls howI > the INDEXF.SYS bitmap is pre-allocated while /HEADERS controls how manygJ > disk blocks are actually allocated to INDEXF.SYS. Then again, the valuesG > you used demonstrate a possible inconsistency. Perhaps the newer codeoH > corrects for this - quietly (maybe needs a -I- message to let you know > you did a dum-dum).p    F Yes, /MAXIMUM_FILES determines the size of the Index file bit map. TheE bit map contains a bit for each file header: 0 ==> header not in use;pD 1 ==> header in use. The size of this file is "fixed in stone" until" another INITIALIZE command is run.  B The /HEADERS qualifier determines the intial number of actual fileF headers. The file INDEXF.SYS is extended if the number of file headersE needed exceeds the number present, but can only be extended until theiF header for INDEXF.SYS itself fills up. With newer versions of VMS, theE algorithm for this extension is much better than earlier versions ando# I expect normally is not a problem.t  B HOWEVER, you can't have more file headers than the size of the bitF map. Since the original poster specified twice as many, who knows whatE INITIALIZE actually did. Based on the size of his INDEXF.SYS, I wouldSB expect 2500000 headers, so I don't know why DFU reports much fewer
 than that.  F So, estimate the largest number of files you'll ever have on the disk,C and use that number for /HEADERS. If you specify a value that's tooC? large, you'll waste disk space. I'd just accept the default forv/ /MAXIMUM_FILES unless that number is too small!f  E Please read INITIALIZE in the DCL dictionary and Disk Concepts in thei8 Guide to OpenVMS File Applications for more information.   Disclaimer: JMHO Alan E. Feldmane afeldman dod gfigroup dod comD5 "Help me help you help me help you."  --Bob Patterson(   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 18:10:54 GMT  From: lbohan@spamless..dbc.com; Subject: Re: DFU report wrong number of free file headers ?d8 Message-ID: <k3e49u8s9ih59atk08sid6e0lhio3s6bab@4ax.com>  D On Fri, 15 Mar 2002 14:18:51 +0100, Jan-Erik Sderholm <aaa@aaa.com> wrote:  F >Isn't DFU just reporting the number of free headers in the INDEX file# >in the part *up to the EOF mark* ?i >l0 >If you look at this line from your DFU output : >iE >"$1$DGA131:[000000]INDEXF.SYS;1 ( 1633/2500623 blocks; 4 fragments)"r >tF >to me it says that the INDEXF.SYS is allocated to 2500623 blocks, butA >currently olny uses 1633 blocks. Check with dir/size=all and I'm  >sure you get the same values. >rC >So what DFU says is that there are 934 "free headers" in this 1633: >blocks. > B >I'd guess that DFU can't "see" past the current EOF in INDEXF.SYS >aG >When you add files to the device, I'd think that this 1633 blocks getsmI >filled up (and the "free headers" in DFU gets lower) until more space inS >theH >INDEX file gets used (the 1633 number jumps up) and then also the "free >headers" in DFU jumps up. >B >Just a thought... >  >Jan-Erik Sderholm.  # I've seen the same behavior w/ DFU,-. and the explanation inre the free header count: stopping at the INDEXF.SYS EOF mark seems to hit the mark.  & What I've done in thsse cases, is use 4 Joe Meadow's FILE utility to reset the EFBLK/FFB on ! the indexf.sys in question.      8  8 also need to do a ANALYZE/DISK/REPAIR repair afterwards,! to fix the alternate file header.i   Example:  - $ INIT/NOVERIF/NOHIGH/HEAD=42000/MAX=100000 - (    /INDEX=BEG/HOME=CONTIG VDA21: LBDISK   % $ MOUNT/OVER=ID/NOCACHE/NOASS VDA21:  . %MOUNT-I-MOUNTED, LBDISK mounted on _EF$VDA21:  E $ DIR/SIZE=ALL/DATE vda21:[000000]INDEXF.SYS !  note used vs alloc'ed  Directory VDA21:[000000]5 INDEXF.SYS;1       47/42039   15-MAR-2002 09:07:06.00h  . $ FILE /END_OF_FILE=42040 /FIRST_FREE_BYTE=0 -    VDA21:[000000]INDEXF.SYS   - $ DIR/SIZE=ALL/DATE vda21:[000000]INDEXF.SYS - Directory VDA21:[000000]5 INDEXF.SYS;1    42039/42039   15-MAR-2002 09:07:06.00b   $ AN/DIS/REPAIR VDA21:C Analyze/Disk_Structure/Repair for _EF$VDA21: started on 15-MAR-20020 09:51:37.82sA %ANALDISK-W-ALTIHDBAD, invalid alternate index file header, RVN 1o. %ANALDISK-I-OPENQUOTA, error opening QUOTA.SYS" -SYSTEM-W-NOSUCHFILE, no such file   $ AN/DIS/REPAIR VDA21:C Analyze/Disk_Structure/Repair for _EF$VDA21: started on 15-MAR-2002m 09:51:41.02p. %ANALDISK-I-OPENQUOTA, error opening QUOTA.SYS" -SYSTEM-W-NOSUCHFILE, no such file   $ MCR DFU REPORT VDA21:o, Disk and File Utilities for OpenVMS DFU V2.7 Freeware version, Copyright  2000 COMPAQ Computer Corporation  . %DFU-I-REPORT, Reporting on VDA21: (EF$VDA21:)@ ***** Volume info for ODS2 volume VDA21: (from HOME block) *****0 Volume name                      :  LBDISK      0 Volume owner                     :              0 Volume set name                  :              + Highwater mark. / Erase on del.  :  No / No<% Cluster size                     :  3o* Maximum # files                  :  100000) Header count                     :  42002p& First header VBN                 :  38) Free headers                     :  41992o	 ...etc...M	 ...etc...e   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 06:44:17 +0000m& From: Alan  Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>* Subject: Re: ES40s have bandwidth to burn?8 Message-ID: <5n539ukmgrmqd0h9he86j6438b1ajfp6ol@4ax.com>  @ On Fri, 15 Mar 2002 06:01:47 GMT, "Tim Peer" <peert@envysys.com> wrote:  K >I am impressed that you are able to perform massive I/O on your system and J >are able to execute queries against record segments without using CodasylH >Sets. This certainly speaks well of the combined hardware (CPU, I/O andK >Memory subsystems). I guess running a Datatrieve query on your system also= >performs well.=    E We don't use Datatrieve any more but do use UDMS for the same purposelD (and PC apps written in MS Access using Navigator/Attunity DBMS ODBCC drivers) and yes they blaze along with enough memory - which is why1E we've just bought another 8GB. Third party Alpha memory is dirt cheape
 right now.  > And yes the ES40/45 machines do have spectacular memory accessD bandwidth.  We also use RAID 0 + 1 (mirror and stripe) on dual HSZ80C controllers for speed. Would go HSG80 or better if buying today. WetD often see I/O rates display as a bunch of **** in MONITOR as it goes off the scale.   ------------------------------    Date: 15 Mar 2002 06:09:53 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)e* Subject: Re: ES40s have bandwidth to burn?3 Message-ID: <wLu7kbmc9H8s@eisner.encompasserve.org>   a In article <5n539ukmgrmqd0h9he86j6438b1ajfp6ol@4ax.com>, Alan  Greig <a.greig@virgin.net> writes:b  @ > And yes the ES40/45 machines do have spectacular memory accessF > bandwidth.  We also use RAID 0 + 1 (mirror and stripe) on dual HSZ80E > controllers for speed. Would go HSG80 or better if buying today. WeiF > often see I/O rates display as a bunch of **** in MONITOR as it goes > off the scale.  9 Time for another complaint to the VMS developers !!!  :-)    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 09:01:39 -0500   From: norm.raphael@jamesbury.comV Subject: explicit DSNlink articles pointer in FAQ? (was: Re: VFC File         Problem)4 Message-ID: <C2256B7D.004C9725.00@jklh21.valmet.com>   Hoff,-P Is there a searchable reference in the FAQ to this URL for the DSNlink articles? -Normi        / djesys.nospam@fsi.net on 03/14/2002 08:36:08 PMB  ' Please respond to djesys.nospam@fsi.nete   To:   Info-VAX@mvb.saic.comh/ cc:    (bcc: Norm Raphael/WOR/Automation/METSO)  Subject:  Re: VFC File Problem        ! norm.raphael@jamesbury.com wrote:  >b9 > > A couple of discoveries which arose from this thread.e > >d6 > > 1. DSNlink articles appear to be alive and well at > >U& > > http://askq.compaq.com/askopenvms/ > > $ > > No username / password required. > >oI > > For example, typing the following into the dialogue box brings up the  > > article Norman quoted: > >v? > > Converting VFC-formatted Files To Sequential Variable Files  > >  > - > Thank you for finding and sharing the link.  > F > (It's odd that searching www.openvms.compaq.com does not find this.)  D ..but based on on-going experience with the Q's website, it's not at all unexpected.    -- David J. Dachtera0 dba DJE Systemsn http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 15:11:11 GMTS. From: ">>> ^P" <plj@NOSPAM.byron.ext.telia.se>1 Subject: Re: FORTRAN (was: Re: R.I.P. OpenVMS...)29 Message-ID: <3C920F12.5C3EEE41@NOSPAM.byron.ext.telia.se>    Hi,   + Will we be able to use #include <xxx.h>   ?p   /P.Ljl   Steve Lionel skrev:r  : > On Mon, 11 Mar 2002 09:33:37 +0100 (MET), Phillip Helbig- > <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> wrote:i >uI > >> Check your tea-leaves again. The last significant update for FORTRAN0 > >> ships this month. > >fG > >Fortran 77 or Fortran 95?  If the former, we should be happy that 25 J > >years later it is still supported.  Fortran 90 is 12 years old, Fortran > >95 is 7 years old.t > > K > >The language (F77) hasn't been evolving at all since 1990.  The compiler0E > >is mature.  I would consider it a bad sign if the last significante > >update were still to come!e >nG > You're mistaken - the language continues to evolve - a "Fortran 2000" H > (more like 2004) revision will add lots of new features, some of which2 > have already made their way into Compaq Fortran. >wH > It is true that Compaq Fortran 7.5 for OpenVMS Alpha is the last majorC > release for that platform, but Fortran development continues at ahF > furious pace and there will be a Compaq Fortran for OpenVMS Itanium. >r > Steve Lionel > Compaq Fortran Engineering > Intel Corporation  > Nashua, NH >o0 > Compaq Fortran - http://www.compaq.com/fortranM > Intel Fortran - http://developer.intel.com/software/products/compilers/f50/    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 11:29:23 -0500s+ From: Steve Lionel <Steve.Lionel@intel.com> 1 Subject: Re: FORTRAN (was: Re: R.I.P. OpenVMS...) 8 Message-ID: <58849u46vjkaldmpek465jhfduij27qgpo@4ax.com>  * On Fri, 15 Mar 2002 15:11:11 GMT, ">>> ^P"& <plj@NOSPAM.byron.ext.telia.se> wrote:   >t >e >Hi, > , >Will we be able to use #include <xxx.h>   ? >   % Wrong language.  In Fortran, you say:1   	include 'xxx.inc'      D Please send Visual Fortran support requests to vf-support@compaq.com   Steve Lionel Compaq Fortran Engineering Intel Corporations
 Nashua, NH  . Compaq Fortran - http://www.compaq.com/fortranK Intel Fortran - http://developer.intel.com/software/products/compilers/f50/i   ------------------------------   Date: 15 Mar 2002 14:01:33 GMT1 From: bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)=P Subject: Re: HP's viewpoint on Linux, was: Re: Sun eating major helping of Linux+ Message-ID: <a6surt$ocn$1@info.cs.uofs.edu>m  / In article <u92q46qkn3dj65@corp.supernews.com>,e%  GreyCloud <mist@cumulus.com> writes:u |> JF Mezei wrote: |> |> > lI |> > In trying to please everyone with its IA64, Intel will please noone.  |> > 2 |> 3M |> Can I conclude then that Intel is trying to make the IA-64 the swiss army 0 |> knife of processors?? |> y  D When will the Ada compiler be ready.  This is sounding more and more like a marriage made in heaven.    bill   -- 9J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   t   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 09:23:15 -0500 5 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com>tP Subject: Re: HP's viewpoint on Linux, was: Re: Sun eating major helping of Linux3 Message-ID: <iznk8.1009$fL6.22757@news.cpqcorp.net>C  = JF Mezei wrote in message <3C912796.D7E90CF8@videotron.ca>...e >"Terry C. Shannon" wrote:I >> made a Big Mistake when they reversed their early commitment to IPF. I  could.H >> be wrong, but Sun has yet to present a convincing argument that would refute >> this position.m > H >*IF* IA64 turns out not to be a dud, there is nothing that prevents Sun fromH >adopting it later on. But until then, it is wise to go full speed ahead withI >our own chip that offers differentiating features. Also, if Sun controls J >Sparc, it can steer its development to be optimized for its customers and OS.  > E >In trying to please everyone with its IA64, Intel will please noone.   L Hmmm.   "with our own chip" - was that a slip of the tongue?   Are you a Sun shill in disguise?  ;-)    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 09:32:36 -0500]5 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com>xP Subject: Re: HP's viewpoint on Linux, was: Re: Sun eating major helping of Linux3 Message-ID: <3Ink8.1011$fL6.22815@news.cpqcorp.net>i  = JF Mezei wrote in message <3C912613.BCD2B4B3@videotron.ca>...a >Tom Linden wrote:L >> It's not, but that isn't the point.  Sun simply doesn't have the bucks to >> compete.g >oK >Sun seemed to have done quite well against the vastly superior Alpha. WhatOJ >counts is price-performance, not raw performance.  So Sun may not get the 10I >"super computer" sales, but it may still be able to get the thousands ofF! >serious and medium server sales.w    F Sure.  That works for a while as long as you can somehow remain on theF general price/performance curve for the industry.  The VAX showed whatL happens when the gap widens.  It held it's position for a long, long time onL vapor, while MIPS and Sparc ran it off of the curve on performance.  You canL only cut your price so far before you start losing money to stay anywhere on2 the curve without being able to match performance.  J Sparc performance isn't even keeping up.  The only significant performanceL increase they've managed to get is from stupid-compiler-tricks-to-beat-spec.J They are fabbless, so they have to depend on using 3rd parties to actuallyJ fab their chips - and few can match IBM or Intel in their ability to driveG chip process.  Even if you use IBM or Intel as your fab (dance with thedL devil) getting leading edge design and process for *your* chip is a slow and difficult process.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 10:58:01 -0500E5 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com>eP Subject: Re: HP's viewpoint on Linux, was: Re: Sun eating major helping of Linux3 Message-ID: <7Yok8.1019$fL6.22882@news.cpqcorp.net>b  = JF Mezei wrote in message <3C91235D.E540AB4D@videotron.ca>...d >Fred Kleinsorge wrote:sK >> geeks.  Hardware choice, capability, and performance is converging.  SUN D >> will eventually implode trying to compete with a proprietary chipJ >> architecture against Power, and IA64 - they don't have the money to try and 7 >> compete with IBM and Intel to fab fast, cheap chips.  >eC >Who actually FABs SUN's chips ?   Does Intel lead the world in the L >implementation of the latest and greatest in FAB technologies ? I was underK >the impression that Intel tended to lag behind the high tech stuff waiting#L >until it is ready for high volume production. Is that a correct portrayal ? >t  J I think you seriously underestimate Intel.  There really are only a coupleL places to go to get cutting edge fab processes - IBM and Intel being the top two.  K >Just like Digital was able to separate chip designs from FABbing and using(I >whatever FAB it wanted, I don't see why SUN would be hindered. Also, the  riseI >of the 8086 against Alpha proves that inferior chips can be commercially 0 >succesful with the right marketing and pricing. >   $ And we are now out of that business.  H >> common Linux kernel, and package their proprietary added-value into a Linux ? >> "product" -- call it Linux/Enterprise Edition, or Linux/Pro.  >EC >Isn't this what they have done ? They call it "Solaris" instead oft "Linux/Pro".  H Hah, hah, hah, hah.  I didn't realize you actually had a sense of humor!   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 11:11:00 -0500F5 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com>tP Subject: Re: HP's viewpoint on Linux, was: Re: Sun eating major helping of Linux3 Message-ID: <i8pk8.1025$fL6.22853@news.cpqcorp.net>   = JF Mezei wrote in message <3C917993.F2D61F87@videotron.ca>...u >"Terry C. Shannon" wrote:C >> sold Fab-6 to Intel. Chip design and development can be a priceyDL >> undertaking, and unless you maintain a demonstrable performance advantageG >> (little good that did for Alpha), rivals who use commodity chips arer likely2 >> to put you at a serious financial disadvantage. >s >-J >Do compilers cost a lot of money and should be gotten rid of, or are they seenI >as an enabling technology that makes your platform far more marketable ?c >i  H It depends on how well you do it, and if you think that it can provide a? competetive edge.  Of course, if hardware converges on a single.K architecture, eventually having seperate compilers from different companiesr makes less and less sense.  G >There is a huge difference between Digital/Compaq and Sun: Digital wastJ >incapable of selling Alpha based products, and Compaq didn't want to sellL >Alpha based products. Sun on the other hand had no problems shoving its ownL >products down the throats of as many customers as it can, it has no problemJ >advertising iots own products and it has no problems pitching its product) >against Microsoft and other competitors.  >t  J You know, I don't know where you are comming from.  In it's prime, DigitalI sold a lot of VAXes the same way Sun sells a lot of Sparcs.  It *was* the F industry standard.  Some people might say we "shoved them down peoplesI throats".  But in reality, people only swallow what they really want.  BygK the time Alpha came out, we were already in trouble because the VAX had runuG out of gas *years* before.  And that is where Sun will end up with it'stL heart ripped out -- they will stick with Sparc like DEC stuck with VAX untilJ it's too late for them to crawl back out of the hole they dug... just like DEC.  * IBM has already passed Sun in marketshare.  L >Failure implies an attempt at something. Alpha didn't fail since it was not" >allowed to enter the competition.  K Horse crap.  What data do you have that indicates that DEC or Compaq didn'teJ want Alpha to succeed?  Just navel gazing pundits trying to figure out why Alpha never got traction.@  - > SUN is in the same position as Dec was with L >Alpha: a proprietary OS and a proprietary chip and proprietary systems. AndL >guess what, they are doing very well in terms of market penetration, and onK >that metric, they are more "industry standard" than Intel's IA64 thing can " >hope to be in the next few years.  I They are in the same position as DEC was with VAX *not* with Alpha.  They I have an aging, slow CPU architecture, with a lot of installed base.  TheyrF have failed to make Sparc performance competetive, and are coasting onD vapours, while trying to squeeze the margins on the cost/price.  TheL competition is well heeled, and can afford to spend big bucks in R&D even ifL it takes them *years* to get it right.  The competition is also betting, andH starting to invest heavily in Linux - which strikes at the very heart ofE Sun's snake oil "open" systems - by truly creating a "standard" UNIX.h   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 17:29:17 GMT 1 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com>eP Subject: Re: HP's viewpoint on Linux, was: Re: Sun eating major helping of Linux9 Message-ID: <Nbqk8.25423$44.6253240@typhoon.ne.ipsvc.net>   @ "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> wrote in message- news:i8pk8.1025$fL6.22853@news.cpqcorp.net...N? > JF Mezei wrote in message <3C917993.F2D61F87@videotron.ca>...  <snip> >SJ > >Failure implies an attempt at something. Alpha didn't fail since it was not $ > >allowed to enter the competition. >0F > Horse crap.  What data do you have that indicates that DEC or Compaq didn'tL > want Alpha to succeed?  Just navel gazing pundits trying to figure out why > Alpha never got traction.0  L I don't think it's fair to say that DEC and CPQ didn't WANT Alpha to succeedJ (otherwise, why on God's green earth would have the firms invested as muchK in the Alpha effort as they did?) but I do believe a cogent argument can be5E made for Alpha's wheel-spinning. Alpha might have boasted performancexH differentiation, but it certainly lacked the IT industry's analogue to a? limited-slip differential: aggressive and compelling MARKETING./   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 10:07:50 -0800 # From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com>QP Subject: RE: HP's viewpoint on Linux, was: Re: Sun eating major helping of Linux9 Message-ID: <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIEEMDEFAA.tom@kednos.com>y   > -----Original Message-----8 > From: Terry C. Shannon [mailto:terryshannon@attbi.com]& > Sent: Friday, March 15, 2002 9:29 AM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.ComoI > Subject: Re: HP's viewpoint on Linux, was: Re: Sun eating major helping 
 > of Linux >  >  >oB > "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> wrote in message/ > news:i8pk8.1025$fL6.22853@news.cpqcorp.net... A > > JF Mezei wrote in message <3C917993.F2D61F87@videotron.ca>...c > <snip> > > L > > >Failure implies an attempt at something. Alpha didn't fail since it was > not & > > >allowed to enter the competition. > >-H > > Horse crap.  What data do you have that indicates that DEC or Compaq > didn't? > > want Alpha to succeed?  Just navel gazing pundits trying tob > figure out why > > Alpha never got traction.p >@C > I don't think it's fair to say that DEC and CPQ didn't WANT Alphay > to succeedL > (otherwise, why on God's green earth would have the firms invested as much= > in the Alpha effort as they did?) but I do believe a cogentt > argument can betG > made for Alpha's wheel-spinning. Alpha might have boasted performancemJ > differentiation, but it certainly lacked the IT industry's analogue to aA > limited-slip differential: aggressive and compelling MARKETING.S >rJ In some respects Alpha sort of started on the wrong foot, unlike the Power PCL which was designed with a view in mind to also run existing code well (e.g.,I one clock tick penalty for unaligned access, What is a barrel shifter youi ask)K the early alphas didn't have this kind of design input and were good on newt codeG but miserable on old code.  It took several years (until 21164 IIRC) top
 straightenK out some of these problems.  You can't blame the engineers for this, in theh
 absence ofH marketing input they designed what they thought was right, but they just happened to0	 be wrong.-   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 10:21:54 -0800v" From: GreyCloud <mist@cumulus.com>P Subject: Re: HP's viewpoint on Linux, was: Re: Sun eating major helping of Linux/ Message-ID: <u94eico4o6q291@corp.supernews.com>    JF Mezei wrote:e   > "Terry C. Shannon" wrote:sC >> sold Fab-6 to Intel. Chip design and development can be a priceyrL >> undertaking, and unless you maintain a demonstrable performance advantageG >> (little good that did for Alpha), rivals who use commodity chips are 9 >> likely to put you at a serious financial disadvantage.m >  > K > Do compilers cost a lot of money and should be gotten rid of, or are they,B > seen as an enabling technology that makes your platform far more > marketable ? > H > There is a huge difference between Digital/Compaq and Sun: Digital wasK > incapable of selling Alpha based products, and Compaq didn't want to selleI > Alpha based products. Sun on the other hand had no problems shoving itsjI > own products down the throats of as many customers as it can, it has nonK > problem advertising iots own products and it has no problems pitching its/2 > product against Microsoft and other competitors. > I > Failure implies an attempt at something. Alpha didn't fail since it wascJ > not allowed to enter the competition. SUN is in the same position as DecI > was with Alpha: a proprietary OS and a proprietary chip and proprietaryeF > systems. And guess what, they are doing very well in terms of marketI > penetration, and on that metric, they are more "industry standard" than : > Intel's IA64 thing can hope to be in the next few years. >   H Well, Suns' o/s maybe proprietary, but the code open to scruntinization.E I can't scruntinize M$ o/s code.  The biggest thing in Suns favor is nH marketing.  Go to their web site and you get good up front marketing of K their products.   Go to Compaq and you don't see any up front marketing of iK any OpenVMS products.  It has to be visible before it can be inquired upon.-   ------------------------------    Date: 15 Mar 2002 05:41:21 -0800) From: oliver.steeples@compaq.com (Oliver)u& Subject: Re: HSZ10 looking for info...< Message-ID: <e5029990.0203150541.a80ff09@posting.google.com>  ) HSZ10, codename TOTO, I knew him so well.l  F It's a bugger.  There's a utility canned ACE that you have to run thatD lets you configure it, the software itself actually sits of a hiddenB partition of any disks in the enclosure.  If it has disks then youA might have got lucky and the utility is on the disks but I can'trrB remeber the command to init them on system startup.  If it doesn't8 have disks then you have just brought a big paperweight.  D I personally would use the disks in a BA350 or something and get rid
 of the HSZ10.g   Regards,            Olivere  f "Dan" <io_crater@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<f8Pj8.138271$kb.7590940@news1.calgary.shaw.ca>...I > I recently picked up what I believe is an HSZ10 at an auction that I am0N > hoping to attach to a VMS hobbyist  system (Alpha 4100 or 1000).    As usualL > for auctions the HSZ10 came with no manuals or software. A model number on& > the back of the unit shows SWXRA-01. >  > B > It does not have the PC Card that I have seen in newer model HSZJ > controllers.  It has an MMJ jack on the front along with 2 68 pin female > SCSI connectors  >  > L > Any pointers on documentation and software requirements for this unit?   I5 > am not having much luck with the internet searches.p >  > Dan Henigman >  > .r   ------------------------------    Date: 15 Mar 2002 05:19:04 -0800, From: cmussche@volvocars.com (Carlo Mussche)# Subject: lpd printing + telnetqueuej= Message-ID: <ab891bd3.0203150519.5f2b34d0@posting.google.com>8  E On my nt-pc i've added a printer with a LPR port referring to a queueGE PBEPQPTEST on VMS(defined as a local queue in LPD on VMS).  The queue A itself is defined as a telnetqueue.  But the jobs are not printede6 correctly.  Do you know what the cause of this can be?  	 printcap:u PBEPQPTEST|pbepqptest:\t6         :lf=/SYS$SPECIFIC/TCPIP$LPD/PBEPQPTEST.LOG:\  6         :lp=PBEPQPTEST:\                              6         :sd=/SYS$SPECIFIC/TCPIP$LPD/PBEPQPTEST:            printer queue created byE INITIALIZE/QUEUE/PROCESSOR=TCPIP$TELNETSYM/on="ipadd:9100" PBEPQPTESTa  A (If I do lpr printing from another vms machine to that queue thatu works fine.)   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 14:20:50 +0100n9 From: Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com>c' Subject: Re: lpd printing + telnetqueue ' Message-ID: <3C91F532.F8E2E20F@aaa.com>>  0 What do you mean with "not printed correctly" ??   Jan-Erik Sderholm.6   Carlo Mussche wrote: > G > On my nt-pc i've added a printer with a LPR port referring to a queueAG > PBEPQPTEST on VMS(defined as a local queue in LPD on VMS).  The queue C > itself is defined as a telnetqueue.  But the jobs are not printeda8 > correctly.  Do you know what the cause of this can be? >  > printcap:i > PBEPQPTEST|pbepqptest:\v6 >         :lf=/SYS$SPECIFIC/TCPIP$LPD/PBEPQPTEST.LOG:\ >         :lp=PBEPQPTEST:\1 >         :sd=/SYS$SPECIFIC/TCPIP$LPD/PBEPQPTEST:  >  > printer queue created byG > INITIALIZE/QUEUE/PROCESSOR=TCPIP$TELNETSYM/on="ipadd:9100" PBEPQPTEST0 > C > (If I do lpr printing from another vms machine to that queue thatH > works fine.)   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 15:12:16 +0100$$ From: "labadie" <labadie_g@decus.fr>' Subject: Re: lpd printing + telnetqueued3 Message-ID: <Hknk8.1008$fL6.22602@news.cpqcorp.net>   9 "Carlo Mussche" <cmussche@volvocars.com> wrote in message 7 news:ab891bd3.0203150519.5f2b34d0@posting.google.com...vG > On my nt-pc i've added a printer with a LPR port referring to a queuerG > PBEPQPTEST on VMS(defined as a local queue in LPD on VMS).  The queuenC > itself is defined as a telnetqueue.  But the jobs are not printedh8 > correctly.  Do you know what the cause of this can be? >f > printcap:  > PBEPQPTEST|pbepqptest:\d6 >         :lf=/SYS$SPECIFIC/TCPIP$LPD/PBEPQPTEST.LOG:\ >         :lp=PBEPQPTEST:\1 >         :sd=/SYS$SPECIFIC/TCPIP$LPD/PBEPQPTEST:m >  >w > printer queue created byG > INITIALIZE/QUEUE/PROCESSOR=TCPIP$TELNETSYM/on="ipadd:9100" PBEPQPTEST- >-C > (If I do lpr printing from another vms machine to that queue that  > works fine.) Hellon  < You put contradictory information, as I see the same name in
 your printcapt and in
 your init/quen  E An Lpd queue works on the port 515, and his symbiont is tcpip$lpd_smbeB a Telnetsym queue has a symbiont named tcpip$telnetsym (as in your init/queue command),L works on any port (but a standard port is 9100, if on a decserver, it may be4 2001-2016 on a 16 ports, 2001-2032 on a 32 ports...)L but not on 515, which is reserved for LPD, see the "well known Tcp ports" at, http://www.iana.org/assignments/port-numbers  5 You have a good  article on Lpd between NT and Vms atrL http://www.compaq.com/support/asktima/communications/CHAMP_SRC970903005831.h tmln  = Check what you have in SYS$SPECIFIC:<TCPIP$LPD>PBEPQPTEST.LOGn and in= sys$manager:operator.log (or in opc$logfile_name, if defined)s or doo repl/ena=(pri,net) stop/que/reset xxx
 start/que xxx  and see the messages.    Regardsn   Grard   ------------------------------  + Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 15:47:16 +0100 (MET) B From: "Dr. Martin P.J. Zinser" <ZINSER@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>= Subject: Re: Online reference guide to ANSI/VT-ESC-commands ?n; Message-ID: <01KFE88LKXDI8ZNE5P@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>t   How about=20  5 http://www.decus.de:8080/www/eng/vms/qaa/vtcode.htmlxi   Greetings, Martinh  H > From:	IN%"aaa@aaa.com"  "Jan-Erik S=F6derholm" 15-MAR-2002 05:19:12.858 > Subj:	Online reference guide to ANSI/VT-ESC-commands ?   > Title says is all... > Jan-Erik S=F6derholm.oJ Dr. Martin P.J. Zinser                       zinser@sysdev.deutsche-boers= e.com-6 Deutsche Boerse Systems Inc.                       =20D Suite 1580                                   Tel: +1-312-408-3085=20A 141 West Jackson Blvd.                       FAX: +1-312-408-3071-/ Chicago, IL, 60604                          =20FF USA                                          Private:  zinser@decus.de   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 16:00:45 +0100c9 From: Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com>e= Subject: Re: Online reference guide to ANSI/VT-ESC-commands ?I' Message-ID: <3C920C9D.78DCD582@aaa.com>n   Nice.mH But, IMHO, the text from the original manuals on www.vt100.com are a bit5 better. And a lot of fun reading on that site too :-)p" But thanks for the pointer anyhow.  	 Jan-Erik.h   "Dr. Martin P.J. Zinser" wrote:s >  > How aboutn > 7 > http://www.decus.de:8080/www/eng/vms/qaa/vtcode.htmlxr >  > Greetings, Martinu   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 15:25:10 GMTt- From: "John E. Malmberg" <wb8tyw@qsl.network>l= Subject: Re: Online reference guide to ANSI/VT-ESC-commands ?i( Message-ID: <3C92146B.70205@qsl.network>   Jan-Erik Sderholm wrote:s > Nice.bJ > But, IMHO, the text from the original manuals on www.vt100.com are a bit  H I can get http://www.vt100.net and http://www.vt100.org to work but not  the .com variant.    -Johnf wb8tyw@qsl.network Personal Opinion Only    ------------------------------  + Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 16:32:35 +0100 (MET)h9 From: Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> = Subject: Re: Online reference guide to ANSI/VT-ESC-commands ?i; Message-ID: <01KFE9TVEP5G8ZOX9C@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>L  J > I can get http://www.vt100.net and http://www.vt100.org to work but not  > the .com variant.-  # Right.  Also, the www. is optional.a   ------------------------------  + Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 16:31:39 +0100 (MET)u9 From: Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>o= Subject: Re: Online reference guide to ANSI/VT-ESC-commands ?o; Message-ID: <01KFE9PU3G8E8ZOX9C@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>o   > www.vt100.com    http://www.vt100.net/s                  ^^^  / > And a lot of fun reading on that site too :-)r   Indeed!    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 16:27:01 +0100h9 From: Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com>e= Subject: Re: Online reference guide to ANSI/VT-ESC-commands ? ' Message-ID: <3C9212C5.B80D2291@aaa.com>u   Sh-t. Wrote it from memory.y  ! It was the .net address I ment...a- (And the .org address goes to the same site.)i  	 Jan-Erik.s   "John E. Malmberg" wrote:f >  > Jan-Erik Sderholm wrote: 	 > > Nice. L > > But, IMHO, the text from the original manuals on www.vt100.com are a bit > I > I can get http://www.vt100.net and http://www.vt100.org to work but not. > the .com variant.d >  > -Johnw > wb8tyw@qsl.network > Personal Opinion Onlyp   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 08:04:01 -0500a5 From: David Beatty <David.Beatty@qwertysasasdfgh.com>s9 Subject: Re: OT: AOL "whiners" for suing MS over Netscapem2 Message-ID: <kPCRPMh1qZyR14MMc=KdBl2yk6bk@4ax.com>  :     Tthe article is not specifically about technology, but7 about markets; it just so happens the article hits upon 2 the Netscape/IE battle.  His analysis is right on.        Why do you think he's wrong?   David R. Beattya  5 On Thu, 14 Mar 2002 22:02:38 +0000, John Eisenschmidtp! <jweisen@eisenschmidt.org> wrote:n   >This came to one of my other mailing lists. The author is an Economist. This is why economists should have no right to comment on IT. >a( >http://www.fff.org/comment/com0203c.asp >  >Netscape Gets the Green "W" >by Sheldon Richman, March 2002o >-A >Imagine the nerve of a company that gives away its product in anoG >attempt to knock off the dominant firm in an industry. I have one such ? >company in mind right now. It went all out to make it easy foraG >consumers to have free access to its product. You couldn't turn aroundnB >without being handed, gratis, this company's goods. When the dust@ >settled, the new company was No. 1, the old leader relegated to >also-ran status.r >gF >No, I am not thinking of Microsoft and its effort to dethrone the webC >browser Netscape Navigator with Internet Explorer. I'm thinking ofcF >America Online's (AOL) move against Compuserve as an Internet serviceG >provider. It's more than a little ironic that AOL Time Warner now ownssD >Netscape and has just filed an antitrust suit against Microsoft for" >doing what AOL did to Compuserve. >oD >AOL Time Warner Netscape should be given the Green "W," the award IC >just made up for the biggest corporate whiner in the country. (ThemC >competition for that distinction is fierce.) The American businesse? >ethic today is this: Those who can do; those who can't, cry too >government. > E >What is Microsoft's grave offense? Netscape says that Navigator lost D >favor with the market because Microsoft began to give away InternetE >Explorer as part of its Windows operating system. Did Microsoft blow F >up Netscape's facilities? No. Did it infiltrate Netscape's operationsF >and sabotage them? No. Did it stop anyone from using Navigator ratherC >than Internet Explorer. Well, no; Microsoft didn't do that either.  >LG >All it did was make Internet Explorer a feature of Windows. That's it.3@ >In America today, that might be an offense for which one can be5 >assessed treble damages. At least Netscape hopes so.L >2D >What makes some people think Microsoft did something bad is that itB >supplies the market's most popular operating system. That enablesG >Microsoft to bundle Internet Explorer with Windows and gain a supposedo# >unfair advantage over competitors.a >dE >The devastating question for Netscape: so what? Why is it unfair? TouG >whom? Certainly not to consumers. They apparently like the convenience F >of having the browser integrated with the operating system. It surelyC >reduces the hassle. Had Internet Explorer not been a good browser,vA >Microsoft's strategy would have counted for naught. Netscape had A >nearly the entire market to itself even after consumers receivednD >Internet Explorer for free. Earlier versions of Microsoft's productB >were not impressive, and consumers were able to use Netscape withA >Windows. (They still can.) Only when a later version of Internet-C >Explorer began to impress software reviewers did consumers give iteD >another look and turn to it in great numbers. (In Contrast, WindowsG >has not helped Microsoft bring its own Internet service provider, MSN,A >to dominance.)y > D >Netscape lost the market on the merits, not because of any "unfair" >advantage.o > G >Think of what it would mean if Netscape gets its way: government woulduG >be the ultimate judge of what can go into a computer operating system. G >Where's it written that a browser is not part of the operating system?rG >There was a time when disk, video, and printer drivers weren't part ofM@ >the operating system either. Should we be forced to live by the3 >standards of the early days of personal computing?g   ------------------------------  + Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 15:05:28 +0100 (MET) 9 From: Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> 9 Subject: Re: OT: AOL "whiners" for suing MS over Netscapeu; Message-ID: <01KFE6G4CS6K8ZOX9C@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>h  I > The article is not specifically about technology, but about markets; it D > just so happens the article hits upon the Netscape/IE battle.  His > analysis is right on.   C I agree completely.  (Also, the original poster indicated that thiscD SPECIFIC EXAMPLE of an economist writing about IT is a reason why NOH ECONOMIST should be allowed to comment on IT.  Can you say "prejudice"?)  I I think one could criticise Microsoft for introducing hidden features in  H IE which makes Netscape run slower (I think this actually happened), as I well as for a web server which outputs a false message ("your browser is  @ not good enough") if it is not IE (again, I think this actually 
 happened).  G Some folks think that it is unfair for Microsoft to stipulate that PCs i@ sold with Windows installed cannot substitute Netscape for IE.  . Personally, I don't see any problem with this.  I The real problem is that society has a) allowed Microsoft to dictate the sF de facto standard (society's problem, not Microsoft) and b) that this  standard is low quality.  H Folks, if you don't like Microsoft (or AOL, or whatever) DON'T BUY IT.  H Now, if the government said "all internet access has to be through AOL" E or "all computers have to run Windows", then this would be cause for L alarm.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 15:13:07 -0000r* From: "Richard Brodie" <R.Brodie@rl.ac.uk>9 Subject: Re: OT: AOL "whiners" for suing MS over Netscapea, Message-ID: <a6t31p$10j6@newton.cc.rl.ac.uk>  B "David Beatty" <David.Beatty@qwertysasasdfgh.com> wrote in message, news:kPCRPMh1qZyR14MMc=KdBl2yk6bk@4ax.com...  " >     Why do you think he's wrong?  P The analysis is fine; it's just that it ignores inconvenient facts; principally,D those established in the DOJ/Microsoft case. Once Microsoft had beenD found guilty of abusing monopoly power, civil suits were inevitable.  J Yes, there is a lot of frivilous litigation. However, when there is a hugeE amount of money at stake, big corporations do this sort of thing. One 0 doesn't need to be an economist to realise that.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 11:21:09 +0100n6 From: Serge ZANGHERI <szangheri@grenoble.sema.slb.com> Subject: Pathworks5 Message-ID: <3C91CB15.81F1841E@grenoble.sema.slb.com>    Hi,mA I m using Pathworks 5F on VMS 5.52H4. The volume label of dka300:eC (vaxvms2h4055) is too long to share any directory outside pwrk$rootA which = c: .E How can I, without change this volume name, share a directory outsidew' the pwrk$root ? What I have to change ? F Someone told me about lanman.ini and the autoshare option ?????? Where# can I find information about that ?h Thanxb   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 17:53:12 +0100c/ From: Frederik Meerwaldt <frederik@freddym.org>  Subject: Re: Pathworks/ Message-ID: <a6t8t3$l7e$06$1@news.t-online.com>i   Serge,  C > I m using Pathworks 5F on VMS 5.52H4. The volume label of dka300:qE > (vaxvms2h4055) is too long to share any directory outside pwrk$rootI > which = c: .G > How can I, without change this volume name, share a directory outside J > the pwrk$root ? What I have to change ? Someone told me about lanman.iniI > and the autoshare option ?????? Where can I find information about thata   Why don't you just use: - DOMAIN\SERVER> ADD SHARE BLAH DKA300:[FOOBAR]    Greetings - Freddy   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 18:16:25 +0100eB From: Michiel Erens <I.dont.want.spam@this.mailaddress.is.invalid> Subject: Re: Pathworks7 Message-ID: <3C922C69.50BD@this.mailaddress.is.invalid>i   Serge ZANGHERI wrote:t >  > Hi, C > I m using Pathworks 5F on VMS 5.52H4. The volume label of dka300:sE > (vaxvms2h4055) is too long to share any directory outside pwrk$roote > which = c: .G > How can I, without change this volume name, share a directory outsidei) > the pwrk$root ? What I have to change ? H > Someone told me about lanman.ini and the autoshare option ?????? Where% > can I find information about that ?S > Thanx   ? Here is a snippet of our lanman.ini. You can find this file in l" the directory [PWRK$ROOT.LANMAN] :   [vmsserver]H@   autoshare = RULBR4$DKB500 = CDFOON , RULBR4$DKB100 = PATHWRKS4%   hostmapmode = if_exist_else_default    hostpasswordsync = yes   noautoshare = dad, _dfsw  A You can find information in the release notes in SYS$HELP, topic i9 6.4.6.10, "Using Long Volume Label for AutoShare Devices"e   -- o ME Posted by news://news.nb.nue   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 10:16:21 -0600s% From: "Dave Rich" <drich@nucorar.com>- Subject: Problem Solved.5 Message-ID: <a6t6m4$gq6sd$1@ID-136223.news.dfncis.de>l  G There was a misplaces exit() at the end of one of the larger functions.D  J Code was exiting before comming back to the calling function to finish up.  6 Thank you all for the suggestions and conversation. ;)   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 08:09:39 -0800e' From: David Mathog <mathog@caltech.edu>   Subject: Re: Question for Andrew+ Message-ID: <3C921CC3.5751F183@caltech.edu>p   Tom Linden wrote:t > J > Recently bought an Ultra 10 from a company that went belly up.  But they > didn'tI > know the password.  Is there a way to login single-user and edit passwdT > file?   P Yes, but do you really want to?  Who knows how they have that system configured.L Far better to get the latest version of Solaris off the web, burn a CD, bootN and install a clean system.  (Note to OpenVMS engineering - one area where SunJ has it all over you folks is in their ability to distribute their software efficientlyRO and for the end users, painlessly. For the VMS equivalent of this problem wheredP would Tom get the boot CD if he didn't already have one, what it would cost him,K and how long would it take?  With one networked PC or Mac and Tom's Sun one M can be up and running in about 3 hours including download, CD burn, boot, andu install)  N Tom, if you really must have their system running boot that same CD, mount the/ root file system and edit the /etc/passwd file.n   Regards,   David Mathog mathog@caltech.edu   ------------------------------  + Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 10:15:19 -0800 (PST) . From: Fabio Cardoso <fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br>( Subject: Relax, it is just a merge . . .@ Message-ID: <20020315181519.99498.qmail@web20204.mail.yahoo.com>   People  / Have a nice weekend and relax with your family a2 or girlfriends in this week end. Next week will be4 exciting for everybody, because we are participating5 in the HP X Compaq merge... Our  careers will change. 5 Our destiny will change. Our perspectives and visionsq1 will change. So, dont worry if HP will really buyo" Compaq or not. Just stay "online".     Have a nice weekend !!!o  
 Fabio Cardoson   =====  ========================== Fbio dos Santos Cardoso OpenVMS System Manager Rio de Janeiro - Brazile fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br ==========================  2 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!?+ Yahoo! Sports - live college hoops coveragec http://sports.yahoo.com/   ------------------------------   Date: 15 Mar 2002 15:48:59 GMT1 From: bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)/ Subject: Sick AS2100+ Message-ID: <a6t55b$r4h$2@info.cs.uofs.edu>A   Sniff, sniff....  F My AS2100 has become sick.  It fails to start.  It runs the self-tests
 and stops at:s     FAIL I/O-00 0004  G Can anyone tell me what this means and is it fixable?? (that is fixableeD assuming a maintenance budget of $0!!)  Is it likely this is the endF result of a longer running problem that might have been the reason whyD no version of Linux (not even the boxed set from CETS) would load on' this machine because of disk timeouts??d   bill   -- 0J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   p   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 08:12:35 -0600o% From: "Dave Rich" <drich@nucorar.com>c+ Subject: sleep() in Older versions of DEC CE5 Message-ID: <a6svec$gn2of$1@ID-136223.news.dfncis.de>p  E Apparently, the version of DEC C I am using does not have the SLEEP()x	 function.u  H Is there a known work around for this, or some other method of causing a2 process to 'sleep' for a specified amount of time?   Many Thanks.  	 Dave Rich. Software Engineers Nucor Steelb   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 14:35:31 GMTn- From: "John E. Malmberg" <wb8tyw@qsl.network>h/ Subject: Re: sleep() in Older versions of DEC Cs* Message-ID: <3C9208C7.7080700@qsl.network>   Dave Rich wrote:G > Apparently, the version of DEC C I am using does not have the SLEEP()  > function.e  G Could you please post the versions of OpenVMS, and the C Compiler that - you believe to be affected?n  , Why not get the current version of Compaq C?  J > Is there a known work around for this, or some other method of causing a4 > process to 'sleep' for a specified amount of time?  D sleep() is a run time library function, and the run time library is I usually supplied by the operating system.  The compiler and ECO kits may  ' supply updates to the run time library.e  I After an OpenVMS Upgrade, the compilers must be reinstalled to get their 22 definition tables up to date with the new symbols.   -John  wb8tyw@qsl.network Personal Opinion Onlyc   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 08:55:16 -0600n% From: "Dave Rich" <drich@nucorar.com>e/ Subject: Re: sleep() in Older versions of DEC Ct5 Message-ID: <a6t1u2$h3fsl$1@ID-136223.news.dfncis.de>    Sorry...  ! Using OpenVMS V6.2-1H3 as the OS.D5  Not 100% sure how to determine the version of DEC C. ( cc/decc/version Does not work.. reports:E %DCL-W-IVQUAL, unrecognized qualifier - check validity, spelling, and-	 placementr
  \VERSION\  ' Suggestion for determining the version?<  K I was handed this system, in lieu of no one else here wanting it, or no oned$ else having had any unix experience.  D Upgrading the version of DEC C is not feasable, as the machines willJ eventually be scrapped, and management dosent want to 'upgrade' antiquatedA computer systems... The Microsoft movement is making itself felt.a   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 15:10:29 +0000-) From: Greg Thomas <thomasgd@omc.bt.co.uk>1/ Subject: Re: sleep() in Older versions of DEC CH8 Message-ID: <ok349u01gtdp68bv8r2dfoe3s4mntcfnhq@4ax.com>  C On Fri, 15 Mar 2002 08:55:16 -0600, "Dave Rich" <drich@nucorar.com>y; wrote in article <a6t1u2$h3fsl$1@ID-136223.news.dfncis.de>:t  6 > Not 100% sure how to determine the version of DEC C. >cc/decc/version Does not work.i   cc/lis=tt:/noobj nl:  : will normally display the version somewhere in the output.   Greg -- m5 This post represents the views of the author and does 5 not necessarily accurately represent the views of BT.a   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 09:16:02 -0600w% From: "Dave Rich" <drich@nucorar.com> / Subject: Re: sleep() in Older versions of DEC Cg5 Message-ID: <a6t351$guj5c$1@ID-136223.news.dfncis.de>-  * Thank you Jan-Erik. That did in fact work.   The output is as follows:o  (         Image Identification Information  +                 image name: "DECC$COMPILER"c7                 image file identification: "C V4.1-001"h3                 image file build identification: "" 7                 link date/time: 31-OCT-1994 16:52:05.00i/                 linker identification: "A11-14"   " Wow... Quite the outdated version.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 08:14:06 -0700a% From: Dan O'Reilly <dano@process.com>n/ Subject: Re: sleep() in Older versions of DEC ChB Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020315081348.00a91ba8@raptor.psccos.com>   Or just plain CC /VERSION-  ) At 08:10 AM 3/15/2002, Greg Thomas wrote:4D >On Fri, 15 Mar 2002 08:55:16 -0600, "Dave Rich" <drich@nucorar.com>< >wrote in article <a6t1u2$h3fsl$1@ID-136223.news.dfncis.de>: >-8 > > Not 100% sure how to determine the version of DEC C.! > >cc/decc/version Does not work.n >g >cc/lis=tt:/noobj nl:i >u; >will normally display the version somewhere in the output.  >s >Gregi >--r6 >This post represents the views of the author and does6 >not necessarily accurately represent the views of BT.   ------I +-------------------------------+---------------------------------------+nI | Dan O'Reilly                  |                                       |rI | Principal Engineer            |  "Why should I care about posterity?  |NI | Process Software              |   What's posterity ever done for me?" |tI | http://www.process.com        |                    -- Groucho Marx    | I +-------------------------------+---------------------------------------+g   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 15:42:04 GMTe- From: "John E. Malmberg" <wb8tyw@qsl.network>w/ Subject: Re: sleep() in Older versions of DEC C.* Message-ID: <3C921860.8050407@qsl.network>   Dave Rich wrote:
 > Sorry... > # > Using OpenVMS V6.2-1H3 as the OS.o  S http://www.openvms.compaq.com/commercial/c/5763p069.html#all_vax_alpha_versions_sec   ; According to this table, the sleep() function is available.L  1 Are you including the correct header file for it?o  4 It appears to be prototyped in signal.h and unistd.h  7 >  Not 100% sure how to determine the version of DEC C.t* > cc/decc/version Does not work.. reports:G > %DCL-W-IVQUAL, unrecognized qualifier - check validity, spelling, andW > placementI >  \VERSION\  * Amoung the other suggestions, you can try:  $ DIR SYS$HELP:CC*.RELEASE_NOTES  M > I was handed this system, in lieu of no one else here wanting it, or no onea& > else having had any unix experience.  G Unix experience is not really required.  However once you get familiar lB with OpenVMS, you may find that that after reading it's very good 4 experience to understanding other operating systems.   -JohnM wb8tyw@qsl.network Personal Opinion Only.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 16:03:54 +0100s9 From: Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com>o/ Subject: Re: sleep() in Older versions of DEC C ' Message-ID: <3C920D5A.6E8E3EB0@aaa.com>r   Try :e  D $ pipe analyz/image sys$system:decc*.exe | search sys$input "identi"  (         Image Identification Information7                 image file identification: "C V6.0-001"l3                 image file build identification: ""l/                 linker identification: "A11-39"h     RegardsM Jan-Erik Sderholm.      Dave Rich wrote: >  > ) > Suggestion for determining the version?c >e   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 16:15:49 +0100f9 From: Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com>y/ Subject: Re: sleep() in Older versions of DEC Ct' Message-ID: <3C921025.9C89AEEE@aaa.com>e  	 $ cc /vert( DEC C V6.0-001 on OpenVMS Alpha V7.2-1     $ cc/lis=tt:/noobj nl:  = shows (after a god deal of searching)  "__DECC_VER=60090001".l  7 It's not that clear to me that "V6.0-001" == "60090001"n   Jan-Erik Sderholm.r       Greg Thomas wrote: >  > cc/lis=tt:/noobj nl: > < > will normally display the version somewhere in the output.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 15:50:19 +0000e) From: Greg Thomas <thomasgd@omc.bt.co.uk>m/ Subject: Re: sleep() in Older versions of DEC Ca8 Message-ID: <i1649ug9o51oftt9t382ju36ri23a9gu5u@4ax.com>  C On Fri, 15 Mar 2002 08:14:06 -0700, Dan O'Reilly <dano@process.com>  wrote in article7 <5.1.0.14.2.20020315081348.00a91ba8@raptor.psccos.com>:n   >Or just plain CC /VERSION  0 Normally, yes, but the original message did say   E >>On Fri, 15 Mar 2002 08:55:16 -0600, "Dave Rich" <drich@nucorar.com>m= >>wrote in article <a6t1u2$h3fsl$1@ID-136223.news.dfncis.de>:t >>" >> >cc/decc/version Does not work.   Greg --  5 This post represents the views of the author and does 5 not necessarily accurately represent the views of BT.o   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 09:53:55 -0600 % From: "Dave Rich" <drich@nucorar.com> / Subject: Re: sleep() in Older versions of DEC Cs5 Message-ID: <a6t5c2$h0ks3$1@ID-136223.news.dfncis.de>i   > L http://www.openvms.compaq.com/commercial/c/5763p069.html#all_vax_alpha_versi ons_secr >l= > According to this table, the sleep() function is available.  >u3 > Are you including the correct header file for it?a    I Yes, I have included BOTH unistd.h and signal.h previously, with the samel results.: When the code came to the sleep() function, it exited. ;-(   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 09:57:50 -0600 % From: "Dave Rich" <drich@nucorar.com>n/ Subject: Re: sleep() in Older versions of DEC Cn5 Message-ID: <a6t5jd$gpin3$1@ID-136223.news.dfncis.de>h   >h > Try LIB$WAIT().d >a) Thank you for the alternative suggestion.a  " Is this used as a normal RTL Call?  , Cant seem to get it to function as expected. The compiler reports:d
 Running CC...s  "   sleep_sts = lib$wait(SLEEPSECS); ..............^tC %CC-I-IMPLICITFUNC, In this statement, the identifier "lib$wait" is." implicitly declared as a function.7 at line number 47 in file ACCOUNTS:[RICH.CC]PROLST.C;90     ; I didn't think the LIB$ Functions needed to be prototyped..p9 I am including all of the necessary includes.. I believe:u #include <descrip.h> #include <jpidef.h>t #include <ssdef.h> #include <starlet.h> #include <stdio.h> #include <stdlib.h>c #include <string.h>h  B I am using other system calls in the code, and they DO function as> expected..  But the actual call is a bit different. I am using SYS$GETJPIW(); With no problemsm   ------------------------------  + Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 17:02:01 +0100 (MET)M9 From: Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>u/ Subject: Re: sleep() in Older versions of DEC Ch; Message-ID: <01KFEAV4WVV48ZOX9C@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>.  $ >   sleep_sts = lib$wait(SLEEPSECS); > ..............^sE > %CC-I-IMPLICITFUNC, In this statement, the identifier "lib$wait" ish$ > implicitly declared as a function.  E I am NOT a C person.  My guess, however, is that /STANDARD=VAXC will i make this message go away.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 15:32:17 -0000 * From: "Richard Brodie" <R.Brodie@rl.ac.uk>/ Subject: Re: sleep() in Older versions of DEC C , Message-ID: <a6t45n$1190@newton.cc.rl.ac.uk>  ` "Dave Rich" <drich@nucorar.com> wrote in message news:a6svec$gn2of$1@ID-136223.news.dfncis.de...  J > Is there a known work around for this, or some other method of causing a4 > process to 'sleep' for a specified amount of time?   Try LIB$WAIT().l   ------------------------------   Date: 15 Mar 2002 15:39:25 GMT1 From: bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)a/ Subject: Re: sleep() in Older versions of DEC C + Message-ID: <a6t4jd$r4h$1@info.cs.uofs.edu>e  ' In article <3C921025.9C89AEEE@aaa.com>,a<  Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com> writes: |> $ cc /ver+ |> DEC C V6.0-001 on OpenVMS Alpha V7.2-1  a |> 2 |> $ cc/lis=tt:/noobj nl:d |> M@ |> shows (after a god deal of searching)  "__DECC_VER=60090001". |> a: |> It's not that clear to me that "V6.0-001" == "60090001"  2 Funny, the first line of the listing for mine was:  F INPUTFILE      15-MAR-2002 10:33:10    DEC C      V5.6-003      Page 1  0 (compressed from 132 to less than 80 characters)  > There's the version of the compiler right there in the header.   bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 17:49:48 +0100s9 From: Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com>e/ Subject: Re: sleep() in Older versions of DEC Cl' Message-ID: <3C92262C.1B29FF82@aaa.com>   + Ok, so here are the full output. /Jan-Erik.o   $ cc/lis=tt:/noobj nl:  ? %CC-W-EMPTYFILE, Source file does not contain any declarations.e  ? %CC-W-EMPTYFILE, Source file does not contain any declarations.r       Command Line ------- ----   CC/LIS=TT:/NOOBJ NL:  6 Hardware: /ARCHITECTURE=GENERIC /OPTIMIZE=TUNE=GENERIC  ; These macros are in effect at the start of the compilation.S; ----- ------ --- -- ------ -- --- ----- -- --- ------------n  I  __G_FLOAT=1  __DECC=1  vms=1  VMS=1  __32BITS=1  __PRAGMA_ENVIRONMENT=1 h4  __vms_version="V7.2-1  "  CC$gfloat=1  __X_FLOAT=1  vms_version="V7.2-1  " iD  __DATE__="Mar 15 2002"  __DECC_MODE_RELAXED=1  __DECC_VER=60090001  __VMS=1 3  __ALPHA=1  VMS_VERSION="V7.2-1  "  __IEEE_FLOAT=0 t __VMS_VERSION="V7.2-1  " n8  __TIME__="17:48:07"  __Alpha_AXP=1  __VMS_VER=70210022 =  __BIASED_FLT_ROUNDS=2  __INITIAL_POINTER_SIZE=0  __STDC__=1 e3  __LANGUAGE_C__=1  __vms=1  __alpha=1  __D_FLOAT=0     $      Bill Gunshannon wrote: > 4 > Funny, the first line of the listing for mine was: > H > INPUTFILE      15-MAR-2002 10:33:10    DEC C      V5.6-003      Page 1 > 2 > (compressed from 132 to less than 80 characters) > @ > There's the version of the compiler right there in the header. >  > bill >  > --L > Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesF > bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. > University of Scranton   |@ > Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 08:44:02 +0100s2 From: "Ren Schelbaum" <rene.schelbaum@datakom.at>M Subject: Re: TCPIP, sharing sockets via $QIO (programming, long and detailed)tG Message-ID: <3c91a638$0$20978$5039e797@newsreader01.highway.telekom.at>f  B "Mark Daniel" <Mark.Daniel@wasd.vsm.com.au> schrieb im Newsbeitrag( news:3C913DC6.3040102@wasd.vsm.com.au... > Shane Smith wrote: > >>Hi!i > >>K > >>Just to contribute a word: same Problem under tru64. Guess that doesn'ts help4 > >>to locate the problem, as the stack is the same. > >> > >>Ren > >h > >nH > > Actually, Rene, I think that does help. It adds weight to the theory@ > > it's something in the network stack rather than Mark's code. > > H > > It was rather ugly tracking mine down. I ended up with flushed debugI > > statements all over the code, slowly binary-chopping down towards the G > > statement that was hanging. Hardly brain surgery, just slow tedioush > > slogging, but it worked. >- > Thanks Ren, Shane, Rick.e >rG > If this *is* the case then there's hardly any point in me pursuing myhF > code any further without involvement from Compaq Engineering.  All IH > need now is confirmation from Someone (capitalized) willing to confirmB > they know about the problem.  If the Apache development team areJ > struggling with it too then there's probably better places I could spendG > my time.  I had this persistent feeling it shouldn't have been *this*aG > obscure (though having made less-than-perfect code implementations inlH > the past - now that's optimistic - I tend to try and nut it out myself3 > before exposing myself to a global "hey stupid").= >=   Hi!i  I Tried to work it out with Compaq Support. Response I got is: It's not thepJ stack, it's Apache. Something I can't prove false, as both are the same on both platforms._J If anyone of you gets any further information on that subject (from the Q)L please keep me informed. Meanwhile we try to improve the situation by addingL memory. We got the feeling that the situation gets worse, soon as the systemF starts swapping. (As indicated before, we have the problem on True64).   Ren   ------------------------------    Date: 15 Mar 2002 06:16:49 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)tM Subject: Re: TCPIP, sharing sockets via $QIO (programming, long and detailed)n3 Message-ID: <ryN$8lfZF7qp@eisner.encompasserve.org>e  | In article <3c91a638$0$20978$5039e797@newsreader01.highway.telekom.at>, "Ren Schelbaum" <rene.schelbaum@datakom.at> writes:  K > Tried to work it out with Compaq Support. Response I got is: It's not thehL > stack, it's Apache. Something I can't prove false, as both are the same on > both platforms. L > If anyone of you gets any further information on that subject (from the Q)N > please keep me informed. Meanwhile we try to improve the situation by addingN > memory. We got the feeling that the situation gets worse, soon as the systemH > starts swapping. (As indicated before, we have the problem on True64).   So why not write a reproducer ?e  ? The base Apache code has source available, so they shouldn't be A doing anything you can't replicate.  If your reproducer does lessoB than the original, it should be able to reproduce the problem much more quickly.*  @ As a first cut you should write the reproducer in C, since it isB possible something in the C Runtime Library (or even the compiler) is contributing to this.  
 ==========  A * My personal best is a problem that took a full day to reproduce B   on one Alpha multiprocessor (out of many) in the country.  After>   we understood the problem (in VMS, as it turned out) the newB   version of the reproducer took 1 second to reproduce the problem8   on a multiprocessor, and 60 seconds on a uniprocessor.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 15:55:19 +0100i2 From: "Ren Schelbaum" <rene.schelbaum@datakom.at>M Subject: Re: TCPIP, sharing sockets via $QIO (programming, long and detailed)nG Message-ID: <3c920b4d$0$26066$6e365a64@newsreader02.highway.telekom.at>   @ "Larry Kilgallen" <Kilgallen@SpamCop.net> schrieb im Newsbeitrag- news:ryN$8lfZF7qp@eisner.encompasserve.org...rI > In article <3c91a638$0$20978$5039e797@newsreader01.highway.telekom.at>, 4 "Ren Schelbaum" <rene.schelbaum@datakom.at> writes: >iI > > Tried to work it out with Compaq Support. Response I got is: It's not1 the0K > > stack, it's Apache. Something I can't prove false, as both are the sames on > > both platforms.DK > > If anyone of you gets any further information on that subject (from the2 Q)I > > please keep me informed. Meanwhile we try to improve the situation byc addingI > > memory. We got the feeling that the situation gets worse, soon as thea systemJ > > starts swapping. (As indicated before, we have the problem on True64). >n! > So why not write a reproducer ?l > A > The base Apache code has source available, so they shouldn't bexC > doing anything you can't replicate.  If your reproducer does lesseD > than the original, it should be able to reproduce the problem much > more quickly.* > B > As a first cut you should write the reproducer in C, since it isD > possible something in the C Runtime Library (or even the compiler) > is contributing to this. >g > ========== > C > * My personal best is a problem that took a full day to reproduce0D >   on one Alpha multiprocessor (out of many) in the country.  After@ >   we understood the problem (in VMS, as it turned out) the newD >   version of the reproducer took 1 second to reproduce the problem: >   on a multiprocessor, and 60 seconds on a uniprocessor.  = Will pass it on to my development. Will see what they can do!r   Ren   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 06:38:11 +0000e& From: Alan  Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>; Subject: Re: There is nothing like performing a REALM walk? 8 Message-ID: <qh439uc4as90fnnih9u9pjjbae7d0petdn@4ax.com>  @ On Fri, 15 Mar 2002 05:55:36 GMT, "Tim Peer" <peert@envysys.com> wrote:   >Alan, >5M >It is understandable why your query is so fast. On PRTREC, the PRTNO segment L >is hashed using the CALC SET-PRTHSHSET. Perhaps the SQL driver is using theK >optimized CODASYL SET (PRTHSHSET) when performing the query. In this case,c  >performance would be excellent.  4 Yes the Navigator/Attunity driver will use PRTHSHSET   >k >> $ NAVSQL MANDB16 >> SELECT PRTDESC FROM PRTREC WHERE PRTNO = 'DP-XXX' ; >1M >Do you realize the same performance when you issue the query syntax:Assuming J >the description field contains the string," Little Red Cables Attach this7 >Part to an Assembly" or a comparable part description?e  	 You mean:1F SELECT something  FROM somethingelse where PRTDESC like '%Red Cables%;  @ Obviously this doesn't return instantly but it wouldn't with RDB@ either. But we do see good performance considering the number ofE records searched. With row caching and/or lots of buffers the recordssC searched will quickly end up in memory during normal operation. ForoF instance a MANMAN MRP run can be speeded up by a factor of maybe  50:1B with a heavily extended database  Going to the extreme, if you canD assign memory equal approximately to the size of the database backupF then things run at light speed :) I'd retry some of your searches withD at least 500 MB of memory assigned to caches of one variety or other if you can.   E DBMS is very sensitive to tuning and the defaults were adequate for au; VAX 11/780 with 2MB of memory but not an ES40m with 4MB...       >> $ NAVSQL MANDBeA >> SELECT PRTDESC FROM PRTREC WHERE PRTDESC  LIKE ' Red Cables' ;    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 03:08:29 -0500-- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>- Subject: Timing of voter, Message-ID: <3C91ABFB.B09FA8EC@videotron.ca>   Next tuesday is the big day.  < Does anyone have details on how/when the vote will proceed ?  M Will holders of proxy votes have pre-tallied their votes put them in a sealed I envelope, let those shareholders who are present vote and then reveal the.	 results ?x  L If one has sent in their proxy vote by mail, can they show up at the meetingL and vote again, or are there computers that provide the list of shareholders/ who have voted by proxy and those who haven't ?0  J Do computer allow for some results to be published the same day (at around4 what time of day ?) or will this be a long process ?  N Since Compaq is taking a vote the next day, is it fair to assume that there isO the expectation that the HP vote would be known before Compaq has its meeting ?   N I realise that there the results may be contested in a long "chad" type fight,N but I am more interested in knowing the early results. . Any chance they would3 make the 18:00 newscasts in eastern north america ?t   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 09:29:05 +0100t9 From: Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com>  Subject: Re: Timing of vote-& Message-ID: <3C91B0D1.CAAB339@aaa.com>  E Isn't this kind of votings often finished during the actual meeting ?:H When the chairman slams his gavel in the table and declares the result ?  H Wew are not talking about 250 mill people voting for a president here...  D And the result will probably be controlled by a rather few number ofD large shareholders, so you could possible decide the outcome without any computers at all..."   Jan-Erik Sderholm.k   JF Mezei wrote:" >  > Next tuesday is the big day. > > > Does anyone have details on how/when the vote will proceed ? > O > Will holders of proxy votes have pre-tallied their votes put them in a sealed4K > envelope, let those shareholders who are present vote and then reveal the: > results ?i > N > If one has sent in their proxy vote by mail, can they show up at the meetingN > and vote again, or are there computers that provide the list of shareholders1 > who have voted by proxy and those who haven't ?l > L > Do computer allow for some results to be published the same day (at around6 > what time of day ?) or will this be a long process ? > P > Since Compaq is taking a vote the next day, is it fair to assume that there isQ > the expectation that the HP vote would be known before Compaq has its meeting ?g > P > I realise that there the results may be contested in a long "chad" type fight,P > but I am more interested in knowing the early results. . Any chance they would5 > make the 18:00 newscasts in eastern north america ?1   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 11:27:13 -0500I% From: "John Vottero" <John@mvpsi.com>e Subject: Re: Timing of vote5/ Message-ID: <u94873r2a0d306@news.supernews.com>r  L Voting has been going on for quite some time, I cast my votes February 19th.L March 19th/20th is when the voting ends.  It's unknown how long it will takeI to tally the votes, you can vote via the internet, telephone or mail (and K probably in person too).  If the vote is close it might take a long time to0J declare a winner and I'm sure there will be lots of recounts.   I receivedL my ballots three different times so I could have voted my shares three times) and they would have had to sort that out.c  : "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message& news:3C91ABFB.B09FA8EC@videotron.ca... > Next tuesday is the big day. > > > Does anyone have details on how/when the vote will proceed ? >sH > Will holders of proxy votes have pre-tallied their votes put them in a sealedK > envelope, let those shareholders who are present vote and then reveal ther > results ?2 >:F > If one has sent in their proxy vote by mail, can they show up at the meetingeA > and vote again, or are there computers that provide the list ofn shareholders1 > who have voted by proxy and those who haven't ?t > L > Do computer allow for some results to be published the same day (at around6 > what time of day ?) or will this be a long process ? >sG > Since Compaq is taking a vote the next day, is it fair to assume thatU there isG > the expectation that the HP vote would be known before Compaq has itst	 meeting ?n >uI > I realise that there the results may be contested in a long "chad" type  fight,J > but I am more interested in knowing the early results. . Any chance they woulde5 > make the 18:00 newscasts in eastern north america ?u   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 17:33:25 GMTh1 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com>  Subject: Re: Timing of voteO9 Message-ID: <Ffqk8.25453$44.6254547@typhoon.ne.ipsvc.net>e  0 "John Vottero" <John@mvpsi.com> wrote in message) news:u94873r2a0d306@news.supernews.com...rH > Voting has been going on for quite some time, I cast my votes February 19th.hI > March 19th/20th is when the voting ends.  It's unknown how long it willD takeK > to tally the votes, you can vote via the internet, telephone or mail (andPJ > probably in person too).  If the vote is close it might take a long time toL > declare a winner and I'm sure there will be lots of recounts.   I receivedH > my ballots three different times so I could have voted my shares three times + > and they would have had to sort that out.,  	 Umm, yep!1  * The Big Winners in this deal thus far are:  D Proxy Solicitors (telephone banks, letters, PPTs, faxes, billboards, skywriting, etc)  & The Media (over $100M in advertising).  G Overnight Delivery Services (lots o' Fedex and Airborne missives flying. about).t    J Regardless of how this thing turns out, and regardless of when an officialF victor is declared, one has to wonder how stockholders will react to aG triple-digit-million dollar expenditure and its impact on 1FQ financiali results. ;-}   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 11:42:01 -0500e  From: norm.raphael@jamesbury.com? Subject: Use Logical name for both DEV: and [dir] in AUTHORIZE??4 Message-ID: <C2256B7D.005B48D1.00@jklh21.valmet.com>  C We have a logical name of the form LOGNAME = "DISK$USER:[USER_DIR]"i@ It points to a different physical location on each of two nodes.  D Now someone want a group of users to login to that logical location.  9 Is this possible without splitting device from directory?m   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 11:53:49 -0500 0 From: "Syltrem" <syltremspammenot@videotron.com>C Subject: Re: Use Logical name for both DEV: and [dir] in AUTHORIZE?a4 Message-ID: <LEpk8.3650$a04.18677@tor-nn1.netcom.ca>   Can you clarify?G You want users to pick LOGIN.COM in the same physical location, using a 4 logical that points to different physical locations?   --   Syltrem I http://pages.infinit.net/syltrem (OpenVMS related web site - en franais)-> To reply to myself directly, remove .spammenot from my address  = <norm.raphael@jamesbury.com> a crit dans le message de news:l) C2256B7D.005B48D1.00@jklh21.valmet.com...2 >B >F >aE > We have a logical name of the form LOGNAME = "DISK$USER:[USER_DIR]":B > It points to a different physical location on each of two nodes. >tF > Now someone want a group of users to login to that logical location. > ; > Is this possible without splitting device from directory?a >a >  >C   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 16:56:06 GMT - From: "John E. Malmberg" <wb8tyw@qsl.network>-C Subject: Re: Use Logical name for both DEV: and [dir] in AUTHORIZE?1* Message-ID: <3C9229B9.6070807@qsl.network>  % norm.raphael@jamesbury.company wrote:f >tE > We have a logical name of the form LOGNAME = "DISK$USER:[USER_DIR]"DB > It points to a different physical location on each of two nodes. > F > Now someone want a group of users to login to that logical location. > ; > Is this possible without splitting device from directory?N  ; Authorize keeps the directory and the device name separate.   H Now DISK$USER is a logical name itself.  It is typically generated when . you mount a disk with the volume name of USER.  @ You can create your own concealed logical names, defined in the ; SYS$MANAGER:SYLOGICALS.COM or other relevant startup files.a  5 If you define your own concealed logical name such ash  3 $DEFINE/SYSTEM/EXEC/TRANS=CONC USER_DISK DISK$USER:n0 or whatever disk you want to use on each system.  H You can then define LOGNAME as USER_DISK:[USER_DIR], and put USER_DISK: + as the device in AUTHORIZE on both systems.a  G The use of concealed logical names allows you to configure all of your -F OpenVMS to have a common appearance for application software, even if / their physical disk configuration is different.R  A You can use rooted logical names to make a single disk look like  G multiple disks.  That way on systems where you have only one disk, you  
 would use:  C $DEFINE/SYSTEM/EXEC/TRANS=CONC USER_DISK SYS$SYSDEVICE:[USER_DISK.].  E But on systems where you can dedicate the entire disk to a user, you tG could use $DEFINE/SYSTEM/EXEC/TRANS=CONC USER_DISK DISK$USER: as above.p  C I generally put all applications and their data areas on concealed  G rooted logicals, so that I only have to change the SYLOGICALS.COM when   changing the disk hardware.g   -Johne wb8tyw@qsl.network Personal Opinion Only    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 12:09:37 -0500   From: norm.raphael@jamesbury.comC Subject: Re: Use Logical name for both DEV: and [dir] in AUTHORIZE?g4 Message-ID: <C2256B7D.005DCC3B.00@jklh21.valmet.com>  > --0__=dFe7qlSaWzuhW4zsjkC0ZaA1Z06UgSg5TKfd95BHJYbinaI2T6lBbVSO* Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inlinea      7 I want users on NODEA to login to SOMELOGICAL and go to = SOMELOGICAL = "DISK$USER1:[FOO.BAR1] and run login.com there.o  7 I want users on NODEB to login to SOMELOGICAL and go toe= SOMELOGICAL = "DISK$USER2:[FOO.BAR2] and run login.com there.y   $ RUN SYS$SYSTEM:AUTHORIZE UAF> SHOW USERX  .. Default:    SOMELOGICALo .. UAF>  O There is an identifier that controls which NODEx they can login to at any givens time.   N Disclaimer  I don't want this.  I am exploring better ways to implement.  I do want toy know if this can be done.d        8 syltremspammenot@videotron.com on 03/15/2002 11:53:49 AM  0 Please respond to syltremspammenot@videotron.com   To:   Info-VAX@mvb.saic.com  cc:aD Subject:  Re: Use Logical name for both DEV: and [dir] in AUTHORIZE?      > --0__=dFe7qlSaWzuhW4zsjkC0ZaA1Z06UgSg5TKfd95BHJYbinaI2T6lBbVSO, Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inlinet+ Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printablet       Can you clarify?H You want users to pick LOGIN.COM in the same physical location, using a=  4 logical that points to different physical locations?   --   SyltrempH http://pages.infinit.net/syltrem (OpenVMS related web site - en fran=E7= ais)> To reply to myself directly, remove .spammenot from my address  ? <norm.raphael@jamesbury.com> a =E9crit dans le message de news:d) C2256B7D.005B48D1.00@jklh21.valmet.com...< >e >h >aH > We have a logical name of the form LOGNAME =3D "DISK$USER:[USER_DIR]"=  B > It points to a different physical location on each of two nodes. >vF > Now someone want a group of users to login to that logical location. >t; > Is this possible without splitting device from directory?a >k >  >i             =i  @ --0__=dFe7qlSaWzuhW4zsjkC0ZaA1Z06UgSg5TKfd95BHJYbinaI2T6lBbVSO--   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 13:15:09 -0500.0 From: "Syltrem" <syltremspammenot@videotron.com>C Subject: Re: Use Logical name for both DEV: and [dir] in AUTHORIZE?s4 Message-ID: <%Qqk8.3654$a04.18713@tor-nn1.netcom.ca>   You already have your answer.p Define the logical as:0 > SOMELOGICAL = "DISK$USER1:[FOO.BAR1] on node a0 > SOMELOGICAL = "DISK$USER2:[FOO.BAR2] on node b   You cant2 UAF> modify userxx /lgicmd=SOMELOGICAL:LOGICAL.COM5 if they are to use the same default disk & directory,c  L if no it`s still possible to do some gymnastics using SET FILE/ENTER to haveK different default directories (as long as they reside on different physicalc disks).A  G I would strongly consider adding some additional logic in the LOGIN.COMs instead of all this, though.   --   SyltremeI http://pages.infinit.net/syltrem (OpenVMS related web site - en franais)-> To reply to myself directly, remove .spammenot from my address  = <norm.raphael@jamesbury.com> a crit dans le message de news:c) C2256B7D.005DCC3B.00@jklh21.valmet.com...g >m >,9 > I want users on NODEA to login to SOMELOGICAL and go to4? > SOMELOGICAL = "DISK$USER1:[FOO.BAR1] and run login.com there.n >a9 > I want users on NODEB to login to SOMELOGICAL and go toe? > SOMELOGICAL = "DISK$USER2:[FOO.BAR2] and run login.com there.s >d > $ RUN SYS$SYSTEM:AUTHORIZE > UAF> SHOW USERXe > .. > Default:    SOMELOGICALi > .. > UAF> >rK > There is an identifier that controls which NODEx they can login to at anyi givenc > time.h > J > Disclaimer  I don't want this.  I am exploring better ways to implement. I do	 > want tot > know if this can be done.t >  >j >  >o: > syltremspammenot@videotron.com on 03/15/2002 11:53:49 AM >p2 > Please respond to syltremspammenot@videotron.com >f > To:   Info-VAX@mvb.saic.comw > cc:oF > Subject:  Re: Use Logical name for both DEV: and [dir] in AUTHORIZE? >p >l >o    L ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----         Can you clarify?G You want users to pick LOGIN.COM in the same physical location, using al4 logical that points to different physical locations?   --   SyltremuI http://pages.infinit.net/syltrem (OpenVMS related web site - en franais)i> To reply to myself directly, remove .spammenot from my address  = <norm.raphael@jamesbury.com> a crit dans le message de news:=) C2256B7D.005B48D1.00@jklh21.valmet.com...h >t >  >uE > We have a logical name of the form LOGNAME = "DISK$USER:[USER_DIR]"tB > It points to a different physical location on each of two nodes. > F > Now someone want a group of users to login to that logical location. >p; > Is this possible without splitting device from directory?s >. >  >l   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 09:28:27 GMT-? From: Jim.Johnson@software-exploration.nospam.com (Jim Johnson)0Y Subject: Re: Viability of the VMS Market for third party vendors -- and an opportunity/ch / Message-ID: <3c91b3b5.1565270@news.demon.co.uk>j  < Speaking as a small company, there are a number of importantB differences between when Raxco was founded and today.  Back then:   A a) The VMS market was visibly growing, gaining new customers, andd> doing new things.  While Compaq may argue that growth is stillF happening, it ain't visible from where I'm sitting.  That means that I, don't know *who* to address any products to.  E b) The VMS market had a range of dedicated or mostly dedicated ad andA? marketing vectors, including a range of magazines and a vibrant D symposium schedule.  The former are gone, the vibrancy of the latter; ain't what it was.  This means that I don't know *where* to  effectively place any message.  E c) The VMS market was not competing for mindshare of any entrepreneurmF with an easier to access, growing, and much, MUCH, larger marketplace.0 And I can think of three off the top of my head.      F Going back to new customers/new things for a second, if people are not@ building and deploying new applications, or at least applicationA refreshes, on their systems the range of viable products drops too@ basic system support and system management support.  If you lookA through the CSA registry what you find are some large establishedfD companies still selling some version of their products on VMS, and aF range of smaller (even if some are largish) companies selling -- basic> system access support and system management tools.  As a smallD company, do I really want to get into what is clearly an overcrowded segment of a static market?   A If there were visible mechanisms for addressing new customers, or F existing customers doing new things, then the VMS marketplace might be* interesting.  Until there is, it won't be.    F However, I'm willing to tilt at windmills if it doesn't cost much.  SoE here's a question/challenge for the community.  I am willing to buildFF and bring to market any one of the following if I can get at least 100D prebookings for that product.  A prebooking consists of a commitmentF to participate in a field test, and to buy at least one license at the) successful conclusion of said field test.h  ? So, if you are interested in any of the following, send me mailyE offline indicating your interest.  If you aren't interested in any ofmD these, but are interested in something else, post it here.  If I canD see sufficient interest, we can then discuss price ranges and see if there's a viable market.  5 Let's see just what sort of business we can generate.s     Jim.      OK, here's my 'no brainer' list:   TP Application Building Tools   D - A Clusterwide, transaction-capable, persistant named property bag.  A   This would provide a simple to use container for name/attributea@   pairs, similar to clusterwide logical names, with the addition@   that the contents would be automatically hardened to disk, and5   the access could be done under transaction control.-  A   This would allow clusterwide applications to cheaply share data8C   between instances of themselves, and use transactions to maintaine   logical consistency.   - Transaction capable IPCn  A   $ICC offers a high performance local and cluster communicationsaA   mechanism.  This would layer on top of that and provide a fully C   automatic transaction branch management feature.  Thus, a client- A   server application would be able to just issue a 'send' request =   while inside a transaction and know that the actions at thee<   remote end would automatically be processed as part of the   transaction.     View it as ACMS-extra-lite.a   - TIP interoperability  ?   Provide an API that gateways between DECdtm and TIP.  Include A   the support to actually connect and interopate with a Microsoftn   MTS based front end.       Java Interoperability:   - Security Integration  @   This is moving into the 'system management' stuff a bit, but I2   guess I can live with one or two of these items.  B   This would provide a full security integration plugin for one or=   more J2EE application servers, supporting not only a commono=   authentication database, but also use the VMS audit log and 3   support the use of VMS authorization information.c  ! - ACMS to J2EE migration toolkit.y  @   This would process TDL, CDD, and the other associated files to@   build equivalent JSP, EJB, and servlet structures.  As well as@   supporting access to Java-only logic, this would either use anD   available infrastructure to connect back to an existing ACMS task,   or incorporate one to do so.  @   This would let an ACMS customer either interoperate with J2EE,@   or migrate, over time, to a fully J2EE compliatnt environment.     - Other to J2EE migrationc  ;   This is just a placeholder to point out that the other TPeA   monitor-type things that Digital shipped could also be migrated 2   in a similar manner -- DECintact, MessageQ, etc.       ??? Anything else ???l  F What would you really like to see brought to market?  Why?  What would you use it for?  Let me know.       5 On Fri, 15 Mar 2002 01:27:39 GMT, "David J. Dachtera"t <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote:   >Larry Kilgallen wrote:o >>  ) >> With well over 40 replies to the topicm >>  ? >>         Viability of a Commercial ISO-9960 formatter for VMS  >> rB >> to date, precisely 1 individual has expressed any interest in a >> commercial product. >> C >> ==================t >> dB >> But there has been significant discussion of why such a featureC >> ought to be built into VMS, including by someone I _know_ has indE >> the past bemoaned the lack of third party vendors of VMS software.w >> eF >> So why should any vendor think there is revenue in the VMS market ? >tD >You might ask Two Guys and a Vax, the people who founded Raxco, and
 >others... >t" ><timetravel destination=the_past>I >Why would anyone want TCP/IP for VAX/VMS? Doesn't Digital have their own I >network stack? Isn't there already a freeware IP stack making the roundsd
 >from CMU? >fI >Why would anyone want an on-line defragmenting tool for VAX/VMS? Doesn'ttG >BACKUP/IMAGE save and restore do that just fine? Isn't that the *ONLY*h >method supported by Digital?e >e% ><timetravel destination=the_present>e; >Why would anyone buy ISO-9660 support for OpenVMS? Doesn't"/ >MOUNT/MEDIA_FORMAT=CDROM already support that?w > I >Just because we would prefer it to come from OpenVMS Engr., doesn't mean I >a third-party product would be universally dismissed out of hand (though 8 >perhaps there are many here who might do exactly that). >n? >Have we forgotten what the word "entrepreneur" *REALLY* means?4 >4F >Perhaps we have - in which case, to paraphrase Luke Skywalker, "Then, >OpenVMS is truly dead!" >d >--  >David J. Dachtera >dba DJE Systems >http://www.djesys.com/  >e) >Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page:   >http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   Jim Johnsonh Software Exploration, Ltd.) (remove '.nospam' from the reply address)r   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 16:52:10 GMTc0 From: prune@ZAnkh-Morpork.mv.com (Paul Winalski)B Subject: Re: Walter Hewlett says HP board is really against merger8 Message-ID: <3c922747.321592215@proxy.news.easynews.com>  D On Fri, 15 Mar 2002 06:16:24 +0000, Alan  Greig <a.greig@virgin.net> wrote:  G >In a webcast available at http://www.pressnews.net/hp/index_live.htm , G >Walter Hewlett suggests the rest of the board back him and are againstoG >Carly but cannot say so publicly because of legal concerns. Well wortha
 >a listen.  E If that is the case, why did they vote for it in the first place?  Orn= is Walter claiming the board has changed its collective mind?o  
 ---------- Remove 'Z' to reply by email.p   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 13:03:54 -0500t# From: "Tom Cole" <tom.cole@sas.com>-B Subject: Re: Walter Hewlett says HP board is really against merger/ Message-ID: <a6td2b$p51$1@license1.unx.sas.com>V  K In the webcast, Walter Hewlett says that he never would have voted in favor>J of the merger as a board member if he hadn't been advised by legal council; that he could then oppose it individually as a shareholder..  J I guess I'm uninformed about the complexities of being a board member of aG major company, but I would have thought that if Mr. Hewlett thought the-I merger was wrong, then as a board member he should vote against it in the K best interests of HP... not "go along, only later to run rogue" as he seems  to these days.  J The implication he seems to be trying to promote is that lots of the boardE members felt the same way, and just went along for a variety of vaguesI reasons not related to their true feelings... if the HP board votes partyeJ line like this all the time, I'd think that HP stockholders at large would( want a new board (Mr. Hewlett included).  K I can see the quarterly summary accounting statements now... "HP incurred aeG one-time charge of $27.5 million promoting the merger and engaging in ah' spin-war with it's own board."  Sheesh."      [$0.02 debited from petty cash.]    = "Paul Winalski" <prune@ZAnkh-Morpork.mv.com> wrote in messagee2 news:3c922747.321592215@proxy.news.easynews.com...F > On Fri, 15 Mar 2002 06:16:24 +0000, Alan  Greig <a.greig@virgin.net> > wrote: >CI > >In a webcast available at http://www.pressnews.net/hp/index_live.htm , I > >Walter Hewlett suggests the rest of the board back him and are againstmI > >Carly but cannot say so publicly because of legal concerns. Well worth. > >a listen. >rG > If that is the case, why did they vote for it in the first place?  Orm? > is Walter claiming the board has changed its collective mind?y >a > ---------- > Remove 'Z' to reply by email.e   ------------------------------  ( Date: Friday, 15 Mar 2002 02:05:28 -0600* From: no.email.address.entered@none444.yet( Subject: Wanted SupportFreaks.com Scouts' Message-ID: <15030202.0528@none444.yet>E  J Marketing Computer and Internet Support, Programming, and Web Development   The Scout position is an opportunity that allows you to work from home, set your own hours, doesn't require travel or time away from your loved ones, allows you to build residual commissions while helping you work towards financial security. The Scout position is about marketing computer and Internet support, programming, web development and consulting services to businesses, partners, and individuals. This is a full-time or part-time contract position. For full details and application, see . http://thedellgod.supportfreaks.com/scout.cgi    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 17:08:35 GMTg" From: "Hans Vlems" <hvlems@iae.nl>3 Subject: Re: Who's got a working 11/750 in Germany?e0 Message-ID: <nUpk8.248$Bb3.1598@typhoon.bart.nl>  H So actually you're asking for a any VAX 11/7xx or VAX86x0 with a massbus controller, aren't you?RG A working 11/750 is a rare beast these days but a massbus controller ise	 somethingoK else again. IIRC more sold with the high end 11/7xx systems (OK the 8600 ise
 an 11/790) than with 11/750's.t   Hans  = Jan C. Vorbrggen <jvorbrueggen@mediasec.de> wrote in messageh% news:3C90D5A4.D553923F@mediasec.de...gF > A potential customer has RM03 and some CDC disk packs and the proper drives -H > but connected to a dead 750. He wants to read the packs...so he either needsrG > somebody with 750 parts to share to get his machine working again, orr somebodyC > who has got a working system that can read his packs. Any offers?= >77 > I suggest e-mail for reply: jvorbrueggen@mediasec.de.t >- > Jane   ------------------------------    Date: 15 Mar 2002 06:08:22 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)tH Subject: Re: Why not ODBC Direct Access? Codasyl DBMS Data on Oracle Rdb3 Message-ID: <jcnIDdzsDvTZ@eisner.encompasserve.org>   a In article <c7u29ukr053h3riej12kpbd42osfba37u6@4ax.com>, Alan  Greig <a.greig@virgin.net> writes:OB > On Thu, 14 Mar 2002 17:12:05 GMT, "Tim Peer" <peert@envysys.com> > wrote: > K >>as defined in the Codasyl DBMS storage schema.  Defining new access pathsoM >>require a storage schema change and reorganization of the database. ImagineiN >>performing a pattern-match query on a CHARACTER type data element, perhaps aB >>description field, in a storage area with say 1,000,000 records. > G > Imagine it - we do it!. We have a Navigator SQL query interface whichdG > searches through 6 million MANMAN MATREC records for descriptions. IfHG > we ran the whole thing from memory I reckon it could do it in under aiG > minute on an ES40. But I guess  if you really need very fast searchesaE > through large amounts of data and don't want to start modifying theoC > underlying DBMS database then I can see why you might use the RDBn > approach.y  D Changing the performance requirements without adjusting the databaseC seems an unfair test for DBMS, or any database.  Is there no changeyA to performance requirements or access patterns to an Rdb databased% that would make someone add a table ?a   ------------------------------    Date: 15 Mar 2002 06:37:26 -0800. From: SPAMSINK2001@YAHOO.COM (Alan E. Feldman)5 Subject: Re: Why not we guys buy OpenVMS from Compaq? = Message-ID: <343f30ae.0203150637.26c1b794@posting.google.com>c  ` "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote in message news:<3C8B9539.406375CA@fsi.net>...   [...]=  H > By the way, am I the only one who sees an association between the dateJ > 9/11 and our "universal" emergency telephone number of 911? Hope I don't  E Nope, but you're the first one I've heard mention it. There is also aDE conincidence between 11 and the towers themselves! When 11 is written. as follows:         11111   11111    11111   11111    11111   11111    11111   11111    11111   11111    11111   11111    11111   11111    11111   11111    11111   11111    11111   11111    11111   11111    11111   11111    11111   11111    11111   11111    11111   11111    11111   11111    s  E 11 itself looks like the towers. Conincidences happen more often thanl' one might suspect, for various reasons.d  F > sound paranoid, but I'm going to be staying close a radio come 4/11.H > (Here in the states, you can generally dial 411 to reach what was onceD > known as "directory assistance"; it's not what it once was at this= > point, of course.) My recording Walkman has AM/FM built-in.    OK.e   Disclaimer: JMHO Alan E. Feldman afeldman dod gfigroup dod com    ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2002.146 ************************