1 INFO-VAX	Fri, 22 Mar 2002	Volume 2002 : Issue 159       Contents: Re: 7.3a and 7.4 Release dates* Re: Advertising CORBA services clusterwideF Re: AlphaStation 255 memory SIMMs (was: Re: WWW.DIGITAL-EQUIPMENT.COM)! Applicant Tracking Software (adv)  Re: buffer I/O! Re: COBOL / HPClosedVMS training? " Compaq brand to survive the merger& Re: Compaq brand to survive the merger& Re: Compaq brand to survive the merger& Re: Compaq brand to survive the merger& Re: Compaq brand to survive the merger: Compatibilty Issues between Alpha VMS 7.3 and Oracle 7.3.2/ Re: DEC C: why does exit(0) really exit with 1? E Re: DECterm X client, ACCPORNAM (was: Re: 7.3a and 7.4 Release dates) < Re: DECWHO.COM (was Re: Suggested enhancement. for DECterm.)8 DECWHO.COM (was Re: Suggested enhancement. for DECterm.)P Re: explicit DSNlink articles pointer in FAQ? (was: Re: VFC File         Problem( Re: FORTRAN (was: Re: R.I.P. OpenVMS...). Re: HELP: Changing redirected SYS$OUTPUT Width Re: Hidden files?  Re: Hidden files? A Re: How does one check to verify all nodes are fully operational? A Re: How does one check to verify all nodes are fully operational? A Re: How does one check to verify all nodes are fully operational? A Re: How does one check to verify all nodes are fully operational? < Re: How to install DSP3107L disk in a Storageworks canister?	 Hypersort 
 Re: Hypersort   Installing emacs 19.28 on AXP7.3 Re: LD062 Install Question RE: LD062 Install Question RE: LD062 Install Question RE: LD062 Install Question Re: LD062 Install Question RE: LD062 Install Question Re: LD062 Install Question* Re: Once a fool, always a fool I guess ...* Re: Once a fool, always a fool I guess ...* Re: Once a fool, always a fool I guess ...* Re: Once a fool, always a fool I guess ...* Re: Once a fool, always a fool I guess ...* Re: Once a fool, always a fool I guess ...* Re: Once a fool, always a fool I guess ...* Re: Once a fool, always a fool I guess ...* Re: Once a fool, always a fool I guess ...* Re: Once a fool, always a fool I guess ...* Re: Once a fool, always a fool I guess ...* Re: Once a fool, always a fool I guess ...* Re: Once a fool, always a fool I guess ...* Re: Once a fool, always a fool I guess ...* Re: Once a fool, always a fool I guess ...* Re: Once a fool, always a fool I guess ...* Re: Once a fool, always a fool I guess ...* Re: Once a fool, always a fool I guess ...* Re: Once a fool, always a fool I guess ...* Re: Once a fool, always a fool I guess ...* Re: Once a fool, always a fool I guess ...* Re: Once a fool, always a fool I guess ...* Re: Once a fool, always a fool I guess ...* Re: Once a fool, always a fool I guess ...* Re: Once a fool, always a fool I guess ...* Re: Once a fool, always a fool I guess ...* Re: Once a fool, always a fool I guess ...* Re: Once a fool, always a fool I guess ...* Re: Once a fool, always a fool I guess ...$ Re: OpenVMS 7.2-1 and UCX 4.2 ECO 05; Re: Problem with SMTP mail on TCPIP v5.1. Help is sought... ; Re: Problem with SMTP mail on TCPIP v5.1. Help is sought...  Re: Right down the middle  Re: Right down the middle  Re: Right down the middle  Re: Right down the middle  Re: Right down the middle  Re: Right down the middle  Re: Right down the middle  Re: Right down the middle  Re: Right down the middle  Re: Right down the middle  Re: Right down the middle  Re: Right down the middle  Re: Right down the middle  Re: Right down the middle $ Re: Shannon knows DEC -> CPQ -> ????$ Re: Shannon knows DEC -> CPQ -> ????$ Re: Shannon knows DEC -> CPQ -> ????$ Re: Shannon knows DEC -> CPQ -> ????$ Re: Shannon knows DEC -> CPQ -> ????$ Re: Shannon knows DEC -> CPQ -> ????$ Re: Shannon knows DEC -> CPQ -> ????$ Re: Shannon knows DEC -> CPQ -> ????$ Re: Shannon knows DEC -> CPQ -> ????& Re: sleep() in Older versions of DEC C+ Re: Strange status returned by sys$create() * SUMMARY: PC monitor attached to RGB output. Re: SUMMARY: PC monitor attached to RGB output" Re: System software status utility" Re: System software status utility" Re: System software status utility" Re: System software status utility" Re: System software status utility Re: Talk about downtime.... D Re: TCPIP, sharing sockets via $QIO (programming, long and detailed)/ Re: Unable to receive Internet mail on VMS node / Re: Unable to receive Internet mail on VMS node % Re: VAX/VMS emulator or free version? % Re: VAX/VMS emulator or free version? % Re: VAX/VMS emulator or free version? % Re: VAX/VMS emulator or free version? * Re: VAXCluster + DSSI *** Help needed ****- VMS Software Developer Available / Contractor  Where is Freeware 5.0? Re: Where is Freeware 5.0? RE: Where is Freeware 5.0? Re: Where is Freeware 5.0? RE: WHERE IS THE COMPAQ DOC??? Re: WHERE IS THE COMPAQ DOC??? Re: WHERE IS THE COMPAQ DOC??? Re: WHERE IS THE COMPAQ DOC??? Re: WHERE IS THE COMPAQ DOC??? Re: WHERE IS THE COMPAQ DOC??? Re: WHERE IS THE COMPAQ DOC??? Re: WHERE IS THE COMPAQ DOC??? Re: WHERE IS THE COMPAQ DOC??? Re: WHERE IS THE COMPAQ DOC??? Re: WHERE IS THE COMPAQ DOC??? Re: WHERE IS THE COMPAQ DOC??? Re: WHERE IS THE COMPAQ DOC??? Re: WHERE IS THE COMPAQ DOC???* Re: Witch streamer supported vax-4000-90 ?  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 02:23:21 GMT 2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)' Subject: Re: 7.3a and 7.4 Release dates 3 Message-ID: <tAwm8.1353$fL6.26982@news.cpqcorp.net>   y In article <Me8m8.330566$A44.18185184@news2.calgary.shaw.ca>, "Technophile" <technophile@river(nospam)side.bc.ca> writes: B :Do you guys have any ideas on when 7.3a and 7.4 will be released?  E   Yes, I do have some idea when various future release are planned to    be available.   B   The OpenVMS Rolling Roadmap is available at the OpenVMS website.8   Please start by reviewing this document, available at:  F     http://www.openvms.compaq.com/openvms/roadmap/openvms_roadmaps.htm  D   V7.3-1 is entering field test (EFT1) within the next month or two.  F   No release named "V7.3a".  (That particular release name would breakI   various products.  For details of the release numbering format, please  J   see the OpenVMS POLYCENTER Software Installation Utility (PCSI) manual, )   part of the OpenVMS documentation set.)   D   The roadmap has general information on other future releases, too.  N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------N       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.com    N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------    Date: 21 Mar 2002 12:59:14 -0800* From: spence_m@ociweb.com (Malcolm Spence)3 Subject: Re: Advertising CORBA services clusterwide = Message-ID: <285db71c.0203211259.57430bfd@posting.google.com>   n schmidt@macarena.cs.wustl.edu (Douglas C. Schmidt) wrote in message news:<a7cg7e$84b@macarena.cs.wustl.edu>... > Hi Jakob,  > > > >> Do you know a ORB for VMS which can do, what you suggest? > E > OCI has a version of TAO that's been ported to VMS.  Please contact 3 > Malcolm Spence <spence_m@ociweb.com> for details.  >  > Take care, >  >         DougD Hi the questioner did not appear to stipulate OpenVMS explicitly. WeD are getting ready to do some cluster enabling work on Tru64 systems.E There are multiple level depending on how much FT and HA you need. We = will be addressing the first two levels of the 3 level Compaq  clustering model. D This will be a vendor specific implementation. Generalized HA and FTB CORBA is something else. Clustering HA is done via disk shadowing,> checkpointing, redundancy, journalling etc. The OS manages the? activity. TAO just has has to have the awareness of the cluster ! features. So do the applications.   ! thanks and regards Malcolm Spence   Director of Business Development OCI St Louis MO 314 579-0066   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 01:29:07 GMT 2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)O Subject: Re: AlphaStation 255 memory SIMMs (was: Re: WWW.DIGITAL-EQUIPMENT.COM) 3 Message-ID: <DNvm8.1345$fL6.26946@news.cpqcorp.net>   ] In article <a6tl1a$h9r6n$1@ID-136223.news.dfncis.de>, "Dave Rich" <drich@nucorar.com> writes:   J :Any info on which type of memory the AlphaStation 255 takes, and how they :have to be matched up?  : L :It has 8 banks, do I need 8 chips, or do they count as 2 banks, with a need :for 4 at a time?  : D :Dec has minimal info on this system, since its considered 'retired'  F   On the AlphaStation 250, three banks of 72-pin SIMMs, 60ns or 70ns, F   organized into adjacent pairs.  Each bank can differ in its storage D   capacity, but each pair within a SIMM bank must have an identical    capacity.   E   On the AlphaStation 255, up to two banks of four (adjacent) SIMMs,  F   with the same speed and size requirements on the SIMMs.  SIMMs must C   be installed in groups of four, and each SIMM within a bank must     have matching capacity.   *   33- or 36-bit parity SIMMs are required.  %   Non-parity SIMMs will not function.   B   EDO DRAM SIMMs (meeting the above requirements) will function inB   both the AlphaStation 250 and AlphaStation 255 -- and will allow   faster memory access, too.    N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------N       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.com    N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 14:49:27 EST + From: William Kubicek <William@Kubicek.net> * Subject: Applicant Tracking Software (adv)? Message-ID: <MSTSERVER10KKvuERRF000038b0@freenet.taiwain.cc.tw>   , This is a multi-part message in MIME format.   ------=_pcr53367.9section1-b1  content-type: text/plain+ content-transfer-encoding: 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Thu, 21 Mar 2002 20:40:46 +0100u' From: "Joerg Spilling" <spi@equicon.de>e Subject: Re: buffer I/O7/ Message-ID: <a7ddkm$crh$01$1@news.t-online.com>-   Gerard,c  I I'm also interesset on this theme. But I see your  specified link broken?H/ Any ideas or can you provide the source itself?/   Joerg0    5 "labadie" <labadie_g@decus.fr> schrieb im Newsbeitragf- news:p63m8.1260$fL6.25775@news.cpqcorp.net...0 >l4 > "Joerg Spilling" <spi@equicon.de> wrote in message+ > news:a7aegv$d28$05$1@news.t-online.com...aK > > The driver programmes defines the kind of I/O per operation code of theaK > > driver. A rule is, that DMA I/O is usually direct I/O. If you mean only0K > > "usual" devices like disks, tapes, terminals, ... on an OpenVMS system,b IeD > > think also that only terminal and network is using buffered I/O. > >dH > > To analyze the I/O traffic of a process I think you must look at the= > > channels opened by it. In this way, you find the devices.f >=. > To analyze the I/O traffic of a process, try >dL http://www.compaq.com/support/asktima/communications/CHAMP_SRC010730002768.h > tmlg >o	 > Regards> >  > Grard >> >=   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 02:02:08 GMT52 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)* Subject: Re: COBOL / HPClosedVMS training?3 Message-ID: <Agwm8.1350$fL6.27069@news.cpqcorp.net>t  W In article <3C97A345.262804B6@free.fr>, Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@free.fr> writes:cM :Where can I find in Europe a training on HP ClosedVMS, in English or French?=     I'm aware of no such product.o  K   If you are (as I expect) interested in OpenVMS training, the information nJ   and authorized training providers are accessable via details in the FAQ J   and via the training information link at the OpenVMS website -- I'm not K   immediately aware of courses in Europe, but expect one of the firms that ,I   provides training could be contracted to provide it, if courses are not2   scheduled.  F   You will want to indicate specific area(s) of interest, as there areJ   a number of courses -- see the training website, certification programs,I   and the TRK media (see the FAQ, of course) for details.  There is also eH   an on-line introduction to OpenVMS System Management course available F   at the OpenVMS website.  As for courses specifically covering COBOL G   programming on OpenVMS, I do not know of courses in that area -- the 0E   programming language itself is, of course, generic -- some related uI   OpenVMS considerations are covered in other programming courses and in dE   the OpenVMS manuals and the COBOL manuals but I know of no courses  H   specific to COBOL on OpenVMS.  (Not that I've looked for one, though.)  I   There are also OpenVMS presentations and OpenVMS sessions at events in hI   Vienna (April), London (April), and Lyon (May).  (I would not expect tovC   see much COBOL training content at any of these events, however.)d    N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------N       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.com    N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------    Date: 21 Mar 2002 15:45:29 -08001 From: keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com (Keith Parris)S+ Subject: Compaq brand to survive the mergerT= Message-ID: <cf15391e.0203211545.19fb670f@posting.google.com>e  j From http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/cn/20020321/tc_cn/compaq_shareholders_approve_hp_union  E Speaking in a conference call after the Compaq shareholders' meeting,lB "Capellas indicated that the Compaq name would continue to live onC after the merger.  ...  'There is huge brand leverage in the CompaqeF name,' he said. 'You will see the Compaq brand used in the new companyB quite fully.'  ...  Analysts and computer resellers have predictedF that HP will phase out its own business PCs, handhelds and Intel-based= servers, among other products, and adopt Compaq's.  Capellas'yB statements seem to indicate that the Compaq products adopted by HPD will continue to carry the Compaq name, and will not be rechristened as HP products.". ----------------------------------------------. Keith Parris | parris at encompasserve dot org   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 00:02:32 GMT.* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>/ Subject: Re: Compaq brand to survive the mergere@ Message-ID: <swum8.26324$Gf.1949296@bin2.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>  > "Keith Parris" <keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com> wrote in message7 news:cf15391e.0203211545.19fb670f@posting.google.com..., > FromL http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/cn/20020321/tc_cn/compaq_shar eholders_approve_hp_union.  K I suppose some people will find that encouraging.  I was more interested ing Curly's statements ino  J http://www.crn.com/Sections/BreakingNews/dailyarchives.asp?ArticleID=34173  L Capellas ... also defended a PC business that critics of the deal said wouldD hurt HP.  "I absolutely believe that the PC business, which was muchD maligned through this process, is really a fundamental and strategicL business," Capellas said. He said that, following an HP merger, the combined4 company would seek to leverage Compaq's PC business.    ' New company, same priorities, it seems.    - bill   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 00:08:01 GMTI4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net>/ Subject: Re: Compaq brand to survive the mergerm= Message-ID: <BBum8.85704$ZR2.37219@rwcrnsc52.ops.asp.att.net>   > "Keith Parris" <keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com> wrote in message7 news:cf15391e.0203211545.19fb670f@posting.google.com...o > FromL http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/cn/20020321/tc_cn/compaq_shar eholders_approve_hp_unionn >eG > Speaking in a conference call after the Compaq shareholders' meeting,CD > "Capellas indicated that the Compaq name would continue to live onE > after the merger.  ...  'There is huge brand leverage in the CompaqwH > name,' he said. 'You will see the Compaq brand used in the new companyD > quite fully.'  ...  Analysts and computer resellers have predictedH > that HP will phase out its own business PCs, handhelds and Intel-based? > servers, among other products, and adopt Compaq's.  Capellas'oD > statements seem to indicate that the Compaq products adopted by HPF > will continue to carry the Compaq name, and will not be rechristened > as HP products."  I Some of 'em very well may. I suspect that the ProLiant name will live on, E but not much is certain beyond that. MC was pretty emphatic about thee& persistence of the brand name, though.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 20:26:54 -0500t- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>r/ Subject: Re: Compaq brand to survive the mergern, Message-ID: <3C9A8857.25714A5F@videotron.ca>   Keith Parris wrote: ? > servers, among other products, and adopt Compaq's.  Capellas' D > statements seem to indicate that the Compaq products adopted by HPF > will continue to carry the Compaq name, and will not be rechristened > as HP products."  N Yep, the Proliant name will survive. But I strongly suspect that it will be an HP Proliant.  L Capellas doesn't have much weight in this. Usually, after a merger, the headJ of the weaker company stays a few months and then goes away. Will CapellasL join Palmer at AMD ? (Now, conspiracy theory would say that it was Intel whoE would arrange for Palmer and Capellas to go to AMD to undermine AMD).c   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 01:28:02 GMT-4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net>/ Subject: Re: Compaq brand to survive the mergerc- Message-ID: <CMvm8.85295$Yv2.29757@rwcrnsc54>.  : "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message& news:3C9A8857.25714A5F@videotron.ca... > Keith Parris wrote:.A > > servers, among other products, and adopt Compaq's.  Capellas'sF > > statements seem to indicate that the Compaq products adopted by HPH > > will continue to carry the Compaq name, and will not be rechristened > > as HP products." > J > Yep, the Proliant name will survive. But I strongly suspect that it will be ani > HP Proliant. >,I > Capellas doesn't have much weight in this. Usually, after a merger, the_ headL > of the weaker company stays a few months and then goes away. Will CapellasJ > join Palmer at AMD ? (Now, conspiracy theory would say that it was Intel whoiG > would arrange for Palmer and Capellas to go to AMD to undermine AMD).e  I I thought that management retention is what's behind the generous bonusestD that CPQ and HWP execs are supposed to get if and when the merger is certified and consummated.   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 02:21:26 GMT-) From: "John Polcari" <jpolcari@attbi.com>lC Subject: Compatibilty Issues between Alpha VMS 7.3 and Oracle 7.3.2-7 Message-ID: <Gywm8.364$oE5.442389@typhoon.ne.ipsvc.net>-   Hi All,H  G I am wondering if there are any issues between Alpha VMS 7.3 and Oracle  7.3.2. I have an Alpha Server C running Alpha VMS 7.3 with Oracle 7.3.2, could anybody tell if theym( encountered any issues with this versionK of Oracle running with the version VMS.  The system has been live for aboute a week know and got a severityL 600 error. We restarted the listener on the server, we have not had any more/ hipcups since then, but I am trying to a handleO$ on things in case it blows up again.F Does anybody know if there are patches that may need to applied to the* system? If you know of any patches, pleaseI let me know and I will look through the release notes prior to installing 
 the patch.  & Any help would greatly be appreciated.   Thanks,e John   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 01:45:47 GMTl2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)8 Subject: Re: DEC C: why does exit(0) really exit with 1?3 Message-ID: <f1wm8.1348$fL6.26860@news.cpqcorp.net>i  W In article <19MAR200201133324@gerg.tamu.edu>, carl@gerg.tamu.edu (Carl Perkins) writes:s  ; :Magic numbers are bad. Do not use them if at all possible.S/ :Switch to defined exit codes, like SS$_NORMAL.t  H   The OpenVMS C library module stdlib.h defines the standard exit codes:       EXIT_SUCCESS     and        EXIT_FAILURE  I   for just this purpose -- SS$_NORMAL also works just fine here, but can  &   obviously be somewhat less portable.  N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------N       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.com    N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 02:48:34 GMT=2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)N Subject: Re: DECterm X client, ACCPORNAM (was: Re: 7.3a and 7.4 Release dates)3 Message-ID: <6Ywm8.1357$fL6.26516@news.cpqcorp.net>=  q In article <a7d80t$va9$1@newsg2.svr.pol.co.uk>, "Malcolm MacArthur" <malcolmix@neverness.freeserve.co.uk> writes:d  K :And will we be able to tell who is on a DECterm using SHOW USERS in 7.3-1,2: :or will we have to keep using ANALYZE/SYSTEM to find out?  H   I will assume this is a continuation of the earlier "rant" (your word)   on ACCPORNAM.   G   Incoming IP connections were fixed in TCP/IP Services V5.1 and later,0F   and these now correctly identify themselves via the SYS$REM* logical(   names and via the ACCPORNAM interface.  H   DECterm, however, is an X Windows client and thus targets an outgoing K   X Windows display, and a remote X Windows Server -- and this is not what =F   is normnally found in the ACCPORNAM field of the (incoming) terminalG   device -- that's the source of the connection, not the target of the aC   connection.  The details of the connection target (stored in the aG   workstation device) are and have been available via the SHOW DISPLAY 0J   command, with SHOW DISPLAY/SYMBOL (undocumented) and the $qio interface H   (also undocumented, examples available on the Freeware and elsewhere) D   provided details on the X Windows server that is the target of the   DECterm display.  G   I regularly use the incoming connecting information that is stored insK   ACCPORNAM -- and the details on the DECterm escape and control sequences SK   that is listed in the FAQ -- to set the DECterm icon and window displays.=M   (I use a network connection to start a DECterm -- similar to the RDECW.COM 2J   procedure that's been around for a while -- and the incoming connection I   ACCPORNAM details are then used to target the X Windows display settingo@   back at the remote X Windows server; at the originating host.)  F   I do not expect that ACCPORNAM would ever be modified to contain theF   target of a DECterm (X Windows) display.  (But if you were to write F   this product requirement onto the back of a cashier's check of largeG   enough value or otherwise convincingly state the use of this change, -1   local management might well change my mind. :-)-    N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------N       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.com    N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 21:04:59 -0000;? From: "Malcolm MacArthur" <malcolmix@neverness.freeserve.co.uk>oE Subject: Re: DECWHO.COM (was Re: Suggested enhancement. for DECterm.)n/ Message-ID: <a7dhng$eek$1@newsg4.svr.pol.co.uk>=   Oops...=  . > $ if ownpid .eqs. "00000000" ! No process...
 should be:& > $ if ownpid .eqs. "" ! No process...  I and it doesn't differentiate between "detached" DECterms and "subprocess"=	 DECterms.=  	 -Malcolm.r   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 20:53:07 -0000R? From: "Malcolm MacArthur" <malcolmix@neverness.freeserve.co.uk>tA Subject: DECWHO.COM (was Re: Suggested enhancement. for DECterm.)T/ Message-ID: <a7dh19$dtf$1@newsg4.svr.pol.co.uk>3  1 >"Fred Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@KVI.nl> wrote in message2( news:a79o3r$r95$1@info.service.rug.nl...: >For easier tracing the location of the users of a system,8 >it would be advantageous to define the remote port info8 >of the FTA device of a DECterm to the properties of the/ >related DISPLAY, e.g.: TCP/host.domain:1.0, or> >DECNET/host:0.0.T >f >What do you think of it?>: Well, I already made my views clear in another message ;-)  H In the interim, you and others might find this command procedure useful.6 Not cluster aware (shows DECterms on local node only).J Requires WORLD and whatever you need to examine channels in SDA (CMKRNL?).  ? Only a tad longer than the more convenient SHOW USERS /FULL ;-)2  	 -Malcolm.& -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-0  5 $! DECWHO.COM - Find out which users are on DECterms.f $! and where they are. $!# $! Malcolm MacArthur, 21 March 2002T $! $ num_controllers ==0r $ num_decterms==0d? $! Step 1: Find the DECW$TE_nnnn terminal controller processes.n $!I $ pipe show sys | search sys$pipe "DECW$TE_" /out=SYS$SCRATCH:DECW$TE.TMPv $! $! Get the PIDs.... $ open /write output sys$scratch:decwusers.tmp+ $ open /read infile SYS$SCRATCH:decw$te.tmpe $ loop:u $ read /end=endfile infile rec $ pid = f$element(0," ",rec) $!4 $! Find the terminals connected to this controller.. $! $ call list_terminals 'pid $ goto loopr
 $ endfile: $ close infile3 $ deleteeee /nolog /noconf SYS$SCRATCH:DECW$TE.TMP;r $ close output; $ sort sys$scratch:decwusers.tmp sys$scratch:decwusers2.tmp24 $ deleteee /nolog /noconf SYS$SCRATCH:decwusers.tmp; $ write sys$output -2 "        OpenVMS DECterm Processes at ''f$time()'" $ write sys$output -A "  Total number of DECterm controllers = ''num_controllers', "+ -n'  "number of DECterms = ''num_decterms'"n; $ write sys$output f$fao("!/ !12AS !6AS !16AS !8AS !8AS", -s5  "Username","Node","Process Name","  PID","Terminal")=! $ type sys$scratch:decwusers2.tmp/8 $ deleteee /nolog /noconfirm sys$scratch:decwusers2.tmp; $ list_terminals: SUBROUTINE $!  $! Create a temp file to run SDA $!, $ open /write outfile SYS$SCRATCH:RUNSDA.TMPD $ write outfile "$ define /user sys$output SYS$SCRATCH:SDACHANS.TMP"# $ write outfile "$ ANALYZE /SYSTEM"e2 $ write outfile "SHOW PROCESS /ID=''p1' /CHANNELS" $ write outfile "$"' $ close outfile  $ @SYS$SCRATCH:RUNSDA.TMPu3 $ deleteeeee /nolog /noconf SYS$SCRATCH:RUNSDA.TMP;i+ $! type /page=save sys$scratch:sdachans.tmpe $! Find the WSAnn: device...C $ search /output=SYS$SCRATCH:WSACHAN.TMP SYS$SCRATCH:SDACHANS.TMP - *                  /KEY=(pos:40,siz:3) "WSA" $! Then the FTAnn: devices...1D $ search /output=SYS$SCRATCH:FTACHANS.TMP SYS$SCRATCH:SDACHANS.TMP -*                  /KEY=(pos:40,siz:3) "FTA"0 $! open the file with the WSAnn: device in it..., $ open /read infile2 sys$scratch:WSACHAN.TMP $ read infile2 rec $ close infile2 7 $ wsadev = f$element(2," ",f$edit(rec,"TRIM,COMPRESS"))r5 $ deleteeeee /nolog /noconf SYS$SCRATCH:SDACHANS.TMP;t $ define /user sys$output nla0:u $ show display/symbol 'wsadeveA $ accpornam = decw$display_transport+"/"+decw$display_node+":"+ -e9               decw$display_server+"."+decw$display_screenu3 $! Write out a record for the DECterm controller... $ $ username = f$getjpi(p1,"USERNAME")  $ node = f$getjpi(p1,"NODENAME")  $ prcnam = f$getjpi(p1,"PRCNAM")& $ if f$length(accpornam) .le. 8 then -<    write output f$fao(" !12AS !6AS !16AS !8AS !8AS (!AS)", -F        username, node, prcnam, p1, wsadev, accpornam+ " [Controller]")& $ if f$length(accpornam) .gt. 8 then -A    write output f$fao(" !12AS !6AS !16AS !8AS !8AS!/!#* (!AS)", -p,        username, node, prcnam, p1, wsadev, -8        65-f$length(accpornam),accpornam+" [Controller]")& $ num_controllers == num_controllers+1K $! well, wasn't that easy! ;-) Now, get the user names for the terminals...v- $ open /read infile2 sys$scratch:ftachans.tmpi
 $ ftaloop:# $ read /end=nomoreterms infile2 rec 7 $ ftadev = f$element(2," ",f$edit(rec,"TRIM,COMPRESS"))e! $ ownpid = f$getdvi(ftadev,"PID")a, $ if ownpid .eqs. "00000000" ! No process... $ then $   username="<No Process>" ' $   node = f$getdvi(ftadev,"HOST_NAME")  $   prcnam = ""e $ else* $   username = f$getjpi(ownpid,"USERNAME")& $   node = f$getjpi(ownpid,"NODENAME")& $   prcnam = f$getjpi(ownpid,"PRCNAM")* $   imagname = f$getjpi(ownpid,"IMAGNAME")& $   image = f$parse(imagname,,,"NAME"): $   if imagname .eqs. "LOGINOUT" then username = "<login>" $ endify' $ if f$length(accpornam) .le. 21 then -S<    write output f$fao(" !12AS !6AS !16AS !8AS !8AS (!AS)", -9        username, node, prcnam, ownpid, ftadev, accpornam) ' $ if f$length(accpornam) .gt. 21 then -tA    write output f$fao(" !12AS !6AS !16AS !8AS !8AS!/!#* (!AS)", -O0        username, node, prcnam, ownpid, ftadev, -(        78-f$length(accpornam),accpornam)  $ num_decterms == num_decterms+1 $ goto ftaloop $ nomoreterms: $ close infile2t3 $ deleteee /nolog /noconf sys$scratch:ftachans.tmp;y $ ENDSUBROUTINEl    >                           F.Z.   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 01:01:06 GMT-2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)Y Subject: Re: explicit DSNlink articles pointer in FAQ? (was: Re: VFC File         Problem-3 Message-ID: <mnvm8.1342$fL6.26681@news.cpqcorp.net>-  W In article <C2256B7D.004C9725.00@jklh21.valmet.com>, norm.raphael@jamesbury.com writes:o  C :...Is there a searchable reference in the FAQ to this URL for the 9 :DSNlink articles?...i  I   Not yet.  The <http://askq.compaq.com/> URL only recently became known eJ   to me -- and through circumstances that, well, I won't go into here. :-)I   I've accumulated various URLs for the next edition -- one of the other e"   new URLs headed into the FAQ is:  5     <http://www.openvms.compaq.com/wizard/wizard.zip>i  E   I have been running an (updated) version of the FAQ through a text  J   formatting tool over the last couple of weeks, with about two-thirds of 1   the existing FAQ contents tagged and formatted.e    N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------N       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.com    N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 14:47:08 -0500-+ From: Steve Lionel <Steve.Lionel@intel.com> 1 Subject: Re: FORTRAN (was: Re: R.I.P. OpenVMS...)-8 Message-ID: <14ek9uchregptofi0n8dinaqkgobq8ghu1@4ax.com>  3 On Thu, 21 Mar 2002 13:33:45 -0500, "Brian Tillman"r, <tillman_brian@notnoone.notnohow.com> wrote:    L >Hm.. I think I remember a FORTRAN/CPP command.  Did this never work?  Is my2 >mind playing tricks on me?  (Not the first time!)  @ Not from DEC/Compaq...  Are you perhaps thinking of FORTRAN/DML?      D Please send Visual Fortran support requests to vf-support@compaq.com   Steve Lionel Compaq Fortran Engineering Intel Corporationw
 Nashua, NH  . Compaq Fortran - http://www.compaq.com/fortranK Intel Fortran - http://developer.intel.com/software/products/compilers/f50/.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 16:53:39 -0500   From: John Santos <JOHN@egh.com>7 Subject: Re: HELP: Changing redirected SYS$OUTPUT Widthi6 Message-ID: <1020321164912.36972A-100000@Ives.egh.com>  % On Thu, 21 Mar 2002, Mike Ober wrote:g  M > When using LIB$Spawn to redirect SYS$OUTPUT to a file, the file wraps at 72oM > characters.  I need to change this to 132 characters.  The program is a VMS 6 > Basic program that is running detached via loginoff. > 	 > Thanks,s > Mike Ober.  E You might need to use the MARGIN statement to change BASIC's built-inu line wrapping.  C I think it normally uses the terminal's width, but if sys$output ishA redirected to a file, it doesn't have a width, and so it uses the.B default of 72.  I  think it inherited this from Dartmouth BASIC on: a Teletype ASR33.  Isn't backwards compatibilty cool?  ;-)   --   John Santos  Evans Griffiths & Hart, Inc. 781-861-0670 ext 539   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 02:16:34 GMTn2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) Subject: Re: Hidden files?3 Message-ID: <6uwm8.1352$fL6.26850@news.cpqcorp.net>e  ] In article <a7av4g$jq57l$1@ID-136223.news.dfncis.de>, "Dave Rich" <drich@nucorar.com> writes:lD :Can't seem to locate the standard include files on 6.2-1H3 OpenVMS./ :But, no problem finding them on 7.2 OpenVMS...l  G   Please install a more recent Compaq C compiler, or reinstall the one  @   you have -- and request that the reference areas be populated.  H :from the top of the system disk... dir [...]stdio.h reveals no matches.  D   The compiler uses a text library -- please check the documentationE   for details -- but because folks like yourself like to see separate-A   files, there is an option to extract these when the compiler is0@   installed.  SYS$SYSROOT:[DECC$LIB...] is the reference area...  ) :Where did dec hide the include files at?D  ?   In the SYS$LIBRARY:DECC$RTLDEF.TLB text library, and (on morerA   recent OpenVMS versions) over in SYS$LIBRARY:SYS$LIB_C.TLB and n    SYS$LIBRARY:SYS$STARLET_C.TLB.  =   Why?  It's faster to open (and hold open) one file, than toe.   rummage around for individual include files.  C   If you haven't resinstalled the C compiler recently, it's a good iE   idea to do that after an OpenVMS upgrade -- the compiler pulls out .;   the newest OpenVMS definitions, and makes them available.y  C   The rules on the include specifications and include logical names(C   have been a moving target, with things having stabilized circa C  C   V6.0 or V6.2.  You do need to take a look at the compiler manuals-B   for details on the particular include processing, and it is bestC   to get to a recent compiler release -- this for reasons of betterr@   compatibility and better control, as well as for bug fixes and   such.   D   Oh, and the other topic is the C backport library, first availableC   with C V5.6 or so -- this is how you get newer functions on olderoD   OpenVMS releases.  (The C run-time library ships with OpenVMS, andC   not with the C compiler -- to get newer C calls on older OpenVMS uE   releases, you need to upgrade OpenVMS, install an OpenVMS CRTL ECO dF   kit that provides the newer capabilities as some do, or you need to )   use the C compiler's backport library.)   C   Common discussions of C coding on OpenVMS are in the OpenVMS FAQ.h  N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------N       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.com    N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 02:29:05 GMTe2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) Subject: Re: Hidden files?3 Message-ID: <RFwm8.1354$fL6.26860@news.cpqcorp.net>t  Z In article <3C995F3E.4050407@qsl.network>, "John E. Malmberg" <wb8tyw@qsl.network> writes:  D :The header include files are part of the Compaq C product, not the  :operating system.  G   The include files that are defined for and part of the C language arenH   part of the Compaq C product, that is.  stdio.h, for instance.  (TheseG   are in the SYS$LIBRARY:DECC$RTLDEF.TLB text library module, a library "   that ships with the C compiler.)  G   There are C header files containing definitions for OpenVMS features hF   and interfaces, header files which are provided with OpenVMS itself.G   eg: jpidef.h.  (See SYS$LIBRARY:SYS$STARLET_C.TLB and SYS$LIB_C.TLB.)t  F   I won't get into the SDL intermediate (SDI) libraries, as that stuffG   gets far too interesting for inclusion in polite discourse.  :-)  And I   then there is the packaging of the C run-time library shareable image,  H   which ships with OpenVMS and not with the C compiler, and the backport*   library which ships with the compiler. =  I   Yes, this can all get a little confusing.  (Time for me to go home. :-)t    N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------N       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.com    N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 12:05:57 -0800o' From: JMK <jeffrey.m.klopotic@lmco.com>rJ Subject: Re: How does one check to verify all nodes are fully operational?( Message-ID: <3C9A3D25.1837D43E@lmco.com>   Larry,H Thanks for the response.  What you suggest looks like a good quick check5 to verify a lot in a short time.  Thanks for the tip.-   Jeff   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 12:06:24 -0800p' From: JMK <jeffrey.m.klopotic@lmco.com>cJ Subject: Re: How does one check to verify all nodes are fully operational?( Message-ID: <3C9A3D40.B3F03872@lmco.com>   Steve, Yes you did,
 thanks again.i   Jeff   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 12:19:57 -08006' From: JMK <jeffrey.m.klopotic@lmco.com>8J Subject: Re: How does one check to verify all nodes are fully operational?' Message-ID: <3C9A406D.E0AE217@lmco.com>    Ken,E Thanks for the response.  Writing such routines may be the way to go,t and your tips are helpful.   Thank you again, Jeff   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 02:17:15 GMTO- From: "John E. Malmberg" <wb8tyw@qsl.network>iJ Subject: Re: How does one check to verify all nodes are fully operational?* Message-ID: <3C9A9608.7000300@qsl.network>  
 JMK wrote:I > Given 50 workstations on clusters scattered over an are larger than youtE > can walk comfortably in a day.  You reboot one or more clusters.  AnJ > glance at $moni clus and you can see if the workstations are online, and8 > $sho dev d to see if the disks are online and mounted. <snip>  G After you look at the freeware and commercial solutions posted, one of e> the best tools for post mortem analysis is the accounting log.  H You can turn on Image accounting, it will record the exit status of all  of the images that are run.   H This can fill up the accounting file, so you will want to restart it on  a regular basis, like daily.  E And then you can use the analyze/accounting command to eliminate the  2 status values and images that are not interesting.  G After a bit of tweaking this report for your site's purposes, you will qC be able to produce a daily summary report of things that should be w
 investigated.=  F It does not replace the other monitoring, but it can find things that  are aborting and restarting.   -Johnf wb8tyw@qsl.network Personal Opinion Only    ------------------------------   Date: 21 MAR 2002 21:30:21 GMT+ From: Dave Greenwood <greenwoodde@ornl.gov>;E Subject: Re: How to install DSP3107L disk in a Storageworks canister?e2 Message-ID: <21MAR02.21302132@feda01.fed.ornl.gov>  Z In a previous article, clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP (Simon Clubley) wrote:b > In article <20MAR02.21061516@feda34.fed.ornl.gov>, Dave Greenwood <greenwoodde@ornl.gov> writes: > > G > > Without the Spin Up jumper it sounds like it spins up when I do the-I > > MOUNT command.  In fact, it starts to mount but goes into mountVerifynD > > while it's supposed to be doing its rebuild.  But that's another2 > > problem which I'll look at after it times out. > >  >  -E > If it's getting that far into the mount, what happens when you do aa* > $ MOUNT/NOREBUILD or a $ MOUNT/NOWRITE ?  E I get 5-10 seconds in which I can access to the disk.  Then the headsmC start banging back and forth and the disk goes into mountVerify and:E eventually mountVerifyTimeout (not so bad now that I've set mvtimeout4B to 60 seconds ;-)  Then I have to dismount, power-cycle the drive,E remount, and I have another 5-10 seconds.  I've actually been able totC recover some files.  Of course, I've also had to reboot a couple of  times when backup got wedged.-   Dave --------------9 Dave Greenwood                Email: Greenwoodde@ORNL.GOVmH Oak Ridge National Lab        %STD-W-DISCLAIMER, I only speak for myself   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 02:00:13 GMTe# From: "John N." <JNixon@cfl.rr.com>" Subject: Hypersort? Message-ID: <Newm8.255436$TV4.34620903@typhoon.tampabay.rr.com>e  I After years of blood sweat and tears (mostly tears), our move from VAX touA Alpha is gaining momentum.  I was asked about defining SORTSHR too7 SYS$LIBRARY:HYPERSORT.EXE but I cannot find much on it.d  I What benefits will I get?  What are the penalties?  Common sense seems tolG indicate it will use more memory and run faster.  Are there any specialnI sysgen considerations?  Does the improvement only effect large files?  IssJ there any effect when sorting small files?  Lots of small files?   Is more disk work space requred?  Less?   ! Thanks for knowledgable comments.n   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 06:06:49 +0100!- From: Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@free.fr>r Subject: Re: Hypersort' Message-ID: <3C9ABBE9.E3243E7F@free.fr>2  P What is HyperSort? I aways thought that the VMS SORT processing was built on theQ QuickSort algorithm which was mathematically demonstrated to be the fastest ever."  N In any case, the Alpha is so fast that I'm not sure you will need another SORTG processing. But for really BIG files, you'll need disk space, for sure.p  
 Just curious.n   D.   "John N." wrote: > K > After years of blood sweat and tears (mostly tears), our move from VAX to!C > Alpha is gaining momentum.  I was asked about defining SORTSHR toe9 > SYS$LIBRARY:HYPERSORT.EXE but I cannot find much on itol   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 11:03:19 -0800 # From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com>e) Subject: Installing emacs 19.28 on AXP7.3 9 Message-ID: <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIIEEPEGAA.tom@kednos.com>p  L CC064 has some complaints, and rather than reinventing the wheel, is there a site@ where I might find either corrected sources or a working binary?   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 01:37:34 GMTi2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)# Subject: Re: LD062 Install Questionu3 Message-ID: <yVvm8.1346$fL6.26955@news.cpqcorp.net>t  _ In article <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIOEPBEFAA.tom@kednos.com>, "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> writes:nE :Just attempted to install LD062 on AXP running 7.3.  When the kit isE :unzipped itL :produces LD062.[A-K] but running VMSINSTALL only restores savesets A and E. :Is this correct?S  K   IIRC, different savesets are used different system configurations -- but pJ   you can pull apart the .A saveset and look in KITINSTAL.COM for details,A   or (of course) you can simply try the tool and see if it works.     N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------N       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.com    N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 18:10:42 -0800 # From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> # Subject: RE: LD062 Install Questionw9 Message-ID: <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJICEFOEGAA.tom@kednos.com>o  ? Thanks, Hoff, but I know you are busy with the Itanium port and+A didn't see that this got answered some days ago.  In any event ittC appears that this is obsolete anyway and that 063 is the way to go.1   > -----Original Message-----; > From: Hoff Hoffman [mailto:hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam]i( > Sent: Thursday, March 21, 2002 5:38 PM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com,% > Subject: Re: LD062 Install Question  >n >l@ > In article <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIOEPBEFAA.tom@kednos.com>, "Tom" > Linden" <tom@kednos.com> writes:G > :Just attempted to install LD062 on AXP running 7.3.  When the kit ise > :unzipped it< > :produces LD062.[A-K] but running VMSINSTALL only restores > savesets A and E.  > :Is this correct?e >h6 >   IIRC, different savesets are used different system > configurations -- butiL >   you can pull apart the .A saveset and look in KITINSTAL.COM for details,C >   or (of course) you can simply try the tool and see if it works.  >o >i2 >  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> > -----------------------------f5 >       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ --  > www.openvms.compaq.com4 >  --------------------------- pure personal opinion > ---------------------------d1 >    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS EngineeringE > hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com >,   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 01:42:18 GMTn2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)# Subject: RE: LD062 Install Question!3 Message-ID: <_Zvm8.1347$fL6.26996@news.cpqcorp.net>n  _ In article <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJICEPFEFAA.tom@kednos.com>, "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> writes:6J :Are you recommending to use 6.3 instead of 6.2?  The 6.2 kit I downloadedK :from David Dachtera's site seems to have some changes made as indicated intJ :the Readme, particularly in regards to the creation of the zip file.  Has :this been incorporated in 6.3?y     There's a zip file in:  <     http://www.openvms.compaq.com/freeware/freeware50/ld063/  K   If you haven't yet had the pleasure of fixing a BACKUP saveset corrupted  N   by an FTP transfer (trivial, once you know how), please review the pointers I   to the tools in the FAQ -- or get a copy of the tool from the Freeware  8   website or from the Freeware disks (in [000tools...]).    N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------N       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.com    N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 18:19:32 -0800 # From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com>z# Subject: RE: LD062 Install Questionn9 Message-ID: <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIMEFPEGAA.tom@kednos.com>m   > -----Original Message-----; > From: Hoff Hoffman [mailto:hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam]e( > Sent: Thursday, March 21, 2002 5:42 PM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com<% > Subject: RE: LD062 Install Question  >  >o@ > In article <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJICEPFEFAA.tom@kednos.com>, "Tom" > Linden" <tom@kednos.com> writes:L > :Are you recommending to use 6.3 instead of 6.2?  The 6.2 kit I downloaded@ > :from David Dachtera's site seems to have some changes made as > indicated inL > :the Readme, particularly in regards to the creation of the zip file.  Has! > :this been incorporated in 6.3?a >R >   There's a zip file in: >-> >     http://www.openvms.compaq.com/freeware/freeware50/ld063/ >2B >   If you haven't yet had the pleasure of fixing a BACKUP saveset > corrupted:B >   by an FTP transfer (trivial, once you know how), please review > the pointersJ >   to the tools in the FAQ -- or get a copy of the tool from the Freeware: >   website or from the Freeware disks (in [000tools...]). >i  @ I have had that pleasure, thank you, and in fact on our ftp site freja.kednos.comK the appropriate script appears multiple times.  But it has always struck meo as odd,fK that knowing this why not build it directly into backup in the first place?s   >.2 >  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> > -----------------------------o5 >       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ --e > www.openvms.compaq.com4 >  --------------------------- pure personal opinion > --------------------------- 1 >    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS EngineeringS > hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com >p   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 02:41:51 GMTo1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>a# Subject: Re: LD062 Install Question ' Message-ID: <3C9A9B94.CA0AA7A5@fsi.net>A   Tom Linden wrote:n > A > Thanks, Hoff, but I know you are busy with the Itanium port andrC > didn't see that this got answered some days ago.  In any event ittE > appears that this is obsolete anyway and that 063 is the way to go.e  H I'll keep the older version available for those who might still need it.   -- l David J. Dachteran dba DJE Systemsr http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/2   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 19:22:59 -0800:# From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com>8# Subject: RE: LD062 Install Question 9 Message-ID: <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJICEGCEGAA.tom@kednos.com>    > -----Original Message-----8 > From: David J. Dachtera [mailto:djesys.nospam@fsi.net]( > Sent: Thursday, March 21, 2002 6:42 PM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Coml% > Subject: Re: LD062 Install Questionp >  >  > Tom Linden wrote:  > > C > > Thanks, Hoff, but I know you are busy with the Itanium port andhE > > didn't see that this got answered some days ago.  In any event ithG > > appears that this is obsolete anyway and that 063 is the way to go.e > J > I'll keep the older version available for those who might still need it.  K Never-the-less since your site is refereenced in the FAQ (and I should add,D* is very useful) you may wish to update it.   >  > -- d > David J. Dachterat > dba DJE SystemsL > http://www.djesys.com/ > * > Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page:! > http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/T >    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 03:18:26 GMTd1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>r# Subject: Re: LD062 Install Questionu' Message-ID: <3C9AA4B1.A7F64B02@fsi.net>n   Tom Linden wrote:  >  > > -----Original Message-----= > > From: Hoff Hoffman [mailto:hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam]o* > > Sent: Thursday, March 21, 2002 5:42 PM > > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com ' > > Subject: RE: LD062 Install Question  > >g > >eB > > In article <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJICEPFEFAA.tom@kednos.com>, "Tom$ > > Linden" <tom@kednos.com> writes:N > > :Are you recommending to use 6.3 instead of 6.2?  The 6.2 kit I downloadedB > > :from David Dachtera's site seems to have some changes made as > > indicated inN > > :the Readme, particularly in regards to the creation of the zip file.  Has# > > :this been incorporated in 6.3?a > >b > >   There's a zip file in: > >h@ > >     http://www.openvms.compaq.com/freeware/freeware50/ld063/ > >iD > >   If you haven't yet had the pleasure of fixing a BACKUP saveset
 > > corrupted D > >   by an FTP transfer (trivial, once you know how), please review > > the pointersL > >   to the tools in the FAQ -- or get a copy of the tool from the Freeware< > >   website or from the Freeware disks (in [000tools...]). > >  > B > I have had that pleasure, thank you, and in fact on our ftp site > freja.kednos.comM > the appropriate script appears multiple times.  But it has always struck meS	 > as odd,.M > that knowing this why not build it directly into backup in the first place?-  < Yes - second the motion, taking a couple of queues from ZIP:  5 $ BACKUP/FIX_SAVESET[=FULL] saveset_filespec/SAVE_SET-  C Repair the RMS attributes of a saveset (maybe). ["=FULL" means "tryl harder"]  / $ BACKUP/TEST_SAVESET saveset_filespec/SAVE_SET   ! Check the integrity of a saveset.s  C As usual, back-port the upgrades to V5.5-2 so no one gets left out.a   --   David J. Dachtera> dba DJE Systemsh http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/i   ------------------------------   Date: 21 Mar 2002 20:41:53 GMT) From: leslie@clio.rice.edu (Jerry Leslie)r3 Subject: Re: Once a fool, always a fool I guess ...D' Message-ID: <a7dgih$sp3$1@joe.rice.edu>   1 Paul Winalski (prune@ZAnkh-Morpork.mv.com) wrote:dF : It's not really that VMS is unhackable--it's more that it representsB : such a miiniscule part of the overall computer marketplace these- : days that nobody bothers to try to hack it.$ :_  2 The best hackers in the country tried to hack VMS:  ,   http://www.pointsecure.com/Defconwhite.pdf!   "Virtually Unhackable" DEFCON9:s  4 --Jerry Leslie     (my opinions are strictly my own)   ------------------------------    Date: 21 Mar 2002 20:49:45 -00004 From: Doc.Cypher <Use-Author-Address-Header@[127.1]>3 Subject: Re: Once a fool, always a fool I guess ...l6 Message-ID: <20020321204945.10274.qmail@gacracker.org>  : On 21 Mar 2002, leslie@clio.rice.edu (Jerry Leslie) wrote:2 >Paul Winalski (prune@ZAnkh-Morpork.mv.com) wrote:G >: It's not really that VMS is unhackable--it's more that it represents-C >: such a miiniscule part of the overall computer marketplace thesee. >: days that nobody bothers to try to hack it. >: >o3 >The best hackers in the country tried to hack VMS:h >2- >  http://www.pointsecure.com/Defconwhite.pdfm" >  "Virtually Unhackable" DEFCON9:  K Compaq seems quite keen on having the "secure" tag attached to VMS with web3I servers and browsers, shouldn't they have a system up and running with antI open challenge to hack it and a prize for doing so? It certainly wouldn'trI be expensive to set up such a challenge. Such would also gather some free0# publicity for the operating system.y     Doc. -- o6 The bigger the humbug, the better people will like it.K ~ Phineas Taylor Barnum.                              http://vmsbox.cjb.net,   ------------------------------   Date: 21 Mar 2002 21:04:32 GMT1 From: bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)m3 Subject: Re: Once a fool, always a fool I guess ...w, Message-ID: <a7dht0$1bvf$1@info.cs.uofs.edu>  ' In article <a7dgih$sp3$1@joe.rice.edu>,@,  leslie@clio.rice.edu (Jerry Leslie) writes:4 |> Paul Winalski (prune@ZAnkh-Morpork.mv.com) wrote:I |> : It's not really that VMS is unhackable--it's more that it represents-E |> : such a miiniscule part of the overall computer marketplace theseb0 |> : days that nobody bothers to try to hack it. |> : |>  5 |> The best hackers in the country tried to hack VMS:. |> 0/ |>   http://www.pointsecure.com/Defconwhite.pdfi$ |>   "Virtually Unhackable" DEFCON9:  @ It took hackers years of work to find the holes in Unix (most of@ which have fixes available within hours) and because this wasn't> duplicated on VMS in a week you think VMS is un-hackable??  It> really is time people came to the realization that the primaryA thing keeping VMS un-hackable is it's not being readily availables? to hackers due to a very limited presence in the real world.  A C presence I fear is going to decrease over the next few years rathert than increase.  :-(n   bill   -- cJ Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   r   ------------------------------   Date: 21 Mar 2002 21:40:17 GMT) From: leslie@clio.rice.edu (Jerry Leslie)n3 Subject: Re: Once a fool, always a fool I guess ...i' Message-ID: <a7dk01$sp3$2@joe.rice.edu>r  2 Bill Gunshannon (bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu) wrote:B : It took hackers years of work to find the holes in Unix (most ofB : which have fixes available within hours) and because this wasn't@ : duplicated on VMS in a week you think VMS is un-hackable??  It@ : really is time people came to the realization that the primaryC : thing keeping VMS un-hackable is it's not being readily availableC@ : to hackers due to a very limited presence in the real world.    ? Yes, the days are long-gone when someone could war-dial to find  a VMS system wih a modem on it.   I But the hackers can buy the microfiche, a used VAX or ALPHA, and hobbyistuG licenses to hone their hacking skills. This may seem a lot of work, but.E there are crackers who will use such knowledge for criminal purposes..  G : A presence I fear is going to decrease over the next few years rathery : than increase.  :-(E   No argument there. :-(   ------------------------------   Date: 21 Mar 2002 21:46:08 GMT) From: leslie@clio.rice.edu (Jerry Leslie)t3 Subject: Re: Once a fool, always a fool I guess ...e' Message-ID: <a7dkb0$sp3$3@joe.rice.edu>   5 Doc.Cypher (Use-Author-Address-Header@[127.1]) wrote:oM : Compaq seems quite keen on having the "secure" tag attached to VMS with webbK : servers and browsers, shouldn't they have a system up and running with aneK : open challenge to hack it and a prize for doing so? It certainly wouldn't K : be expensive to set up such a challenge. Such would also gather some freeD% : publicity for the operating system.   F Given the dearth of publicity surrounding VMS, one has to assume that J the vendor does NOT desire publicity for the operating system, or doesn't  have permission from Microsoft.a  G AFAIK, IBM is the only company selling Wintel Cartel boxes while still v advertising their own products.m  4 --Jerry Leslie     (my opinions are strictly my own)   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 10:25:58 +1100g* From: "Dale King" <dalek@forpresident.com>3 Subject: Re: Once a fool, always a fool I guess ...s' Message-ID: <a7dq68$oj9$1@lore.csc.com>i  6 "Jerry Leslie" <leslie@clio.rice.edu> wrote in message! news:a7dgih$sp3$1@joe.rice.edu... 3 > Paul Winalski (prune@ZAnkh-Morpork.mv.com) wrote:rH > : It's not really that VMS is unhackable--it's more that it representsD > : such a miiniscule part of the overall computer marketplace these/ > : days that nobody bothers to try to hack it.c > :: >p4 > The best hackers in the country tried to hack VMS: >i. >   http://www.pointsecure.com/Defconwhite.pdf# >   "Virtually Unhackable" DEFCON9:   N This paper was written by a firm who is selling security products for VMS.  Do you believe them?    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 10:29:32 +1100e* From: "Dale King" <dalek@forpresident.com>3 Subject: Re: Once a fool, always a fool I guess ... ' Message-ID: <a7dqct$ol8$1@lore.csc.com>(  ? "Robert Deininger" <rdeininger@mindspring.com> wrote in message E news:rdeininger-2103020708470001@1cust225.tnt1.nashua.nh.da.uu.net... 5 > In article <a7bk76$hiq$1@lore.csc.com>, "Dale King"-! > <dalek@forpresident.com> wrote:3 > L > >Sure we can see VMS isn't susceptible to these attacks, but really, there isn't.L > >a whole lot of this software functionality on VMS either.  Geez, we still have > >to pay for a TCP/IP stack!n >gK > Huh?  We've been though this many times in recent weeks.  TCP/IP servicesaG > is bundled with most any new VMS system sale, and has been for years.09 > There may be exceptions, but nobody has pointed to one.   I By bundled you mean in the Enterprise Integration Package right?  This is6 separate to a VMS license.  H > >I would much rather see VMS get this sort of functionality than users braggingH > >about how "unhackable" their OS is.  Windows/linux would be too if we > didn't run > >anything on it ;) >AL > So contact the TCP/IP services product manager at Compaq, or the folks whoL > decide what to put in the products at Process Software, and tell them yourK > needs.  That is the way new features get added to VMS.  Not via newsgroup, > posts.  L Example:  How long have we waited for a port of SSH?  That has been directlyO requested many I time.  I understand there is a good deal of engineering effortnB to get this sort of stuff into VMS, and we will just have to wait.   ------------------------------    Date: 21 Mar 2002 16:01:09 -0800( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)3 Subject: Re: Once a fool, always a fool I guess ...-= Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0203211601.4bd0f3a4@posting.google.com>r  p prune@ZAnkh-Morpork.mv.com (Paul Winalski) wrote in message news:<3c9a141a.840970962@proxy.news.easynews.com>...C > On 20 Mar 2002 16:11:55 -0800, bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)a > wrote: > F > >windoze and linux users just keep on dreaming and say to themselvesI > >daily that "things are getting better" & "all os's have this problem",-@ > >while still unaware that there is a "unhackable" os, VMS ...  > F > I wouldn't be so smug if I were you.  Granted, security was a designA > concern for VMS from day 1 (as opposed to Windows, where it wasnE > very much an afterthought), and the security design in VMS is very, @ > very good.  But VMS has not been without its security bugs and > design flaws.h > F > It's not really that VMS is unhackable--it's more that it representsB > such a miiniscule part of the overall computer marketplace these- > days that nobody bothers to try to hack it.y >   G well, you better tell the defcon9 group that, because they spent 2 daysiG trying to hack in w/telnet turned on and all and "couldn't" ... I guesso+ these guys are all a bunch of idiots, hugh?-   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 23:47:38 GMT  From: system@SendSpamHere.ORGs3 Subject: Re: Once a fool, always a fool I guess ...-0 Message-ID: <00A0B491.56645137@SendSpamHere.ORG>  T In article <a7dqct$ol8$1@lore.csc.com>, "Dale King" <dalek@forpresident.com> writes:@ >"Robert Deininger" <rdeininger@mindspring.com> wrote in messageF >news:rdeininger-2103020708470001@1cust225.tnt1.nashua.nh.da.uu.net...6 >> In article <a7bk76$hiq$1@lore.csc.com>, "Dale King"" >> <dalek@forpresident.com> wrote: >>M >> >Sure we can see VMS isn't susceptible to these attacks, but really, thereL >isn'tM >> >a whole lot of this software functionality on VMS either.  Geez, we still  >have  >> >to pay for a TCP/IP stack! >>L >> Huh?  We've been though this many times in recent weeks.  TCP/IP servicesH >> is bundled with most any new VMS system sale, and has been for years.: >> There may be exceptions, but nobody has pointed to one. >vJ >By bundled you mean in the Enterprise Integration Package right?  This is >separate to a VMS license.s >cI >> >I would much rather see VMS get this sort of functionality than usersw	 >braggingrI >> >about how "unhackable" their OS is.  Windows/linux would be too if wee
 >> didn't runr >> >anything on it ;)s >>M >> So contact the TCP/IP services product manager at Compaq, or the folks who-M >> decide what to put in the products at Process Software, and tell them yourpL >> needs.  That is the way new features get added to VMS.  Not via newsgroup	 >> posts.- >-M >Example:  How long have we waited for a port of SSH?  That has been directlycP >requested many I time.  I understand there is a good deal of engineering effortC >to get this sort of stuff into VMS, and we will just have to wait.t   Engineering effort?L  K It's a lot of effort to sift through unixified shit.  There's been a threadmJ here for sometime about emacs.  Go take a look at what a unixified heap ofJ shit that code is.  My guess is that the SSH -- and so many other packagesK that the masses are clamoring for -- code has not fallen far from that dung. heap.T  = However, Multinet and TCPware have this functionality now.   o   --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM             cJ   "And of course, I'm a genius, so people are naturally drawn to my fiery I   intellect.  Their admiration overwhelms their envy!" -- Calvin & Hobbes    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 10:39:39 +1100f* From: "Dale King" <dalek@forpresident.com>3 Subject: Re: Once a fool, always a fool I guess ...p' Message-ID: <a7dqvt$ovg$1@lore.csc.com>c  * <system@SendSpamHere.ORG> wrote in message* news:00A0B44A.0BCE22D0@SendSpamHere.ORG...H > In article <21MAR200206483608@gerg.tamu.edu>, carl@gerg.tamu.edu (Carl Perkins) writes:1 > >"Dale King" <dalek@forpresident.com> writes... 9 > >}"Bob Ceculski" <bob@instantwhip.com> wrote in messagei; > >}news:d7791aa1.0203201611.4943c0aa@posting.google.com...o4 > >}> Analysts: Security flaws won't undermine LinuxK > >}Wouldn't it be nice to have something like netfilter in the VMS kernel?< > >. > >No, it would not. > >-K > >The proper place for such a thing, if you want it, is not in the kernel.m >oI > Would you care to explain what this netfilter thing in the Linux kernel- > does for one using Linux?   O Netfilter is an advanced packet filter.  It lets you filter just about anything-O IP, and allows you to do neat things like use your machine as a firewall or NAT  router.   ? If you want to know more, check out http://netfilter.samba.org/s  P It is built into the kernel for speed, not security.  It is an age old debate asE to whether this sort of thing should go into the kernel or userspace.g  O I think it's things like this that linux users get for free that stops VMS fromyN ever getting a look in.  VMS is very good at what it does: providing a secure,L reliable platform for enterprise applications.  That is why I don't think weP should dump on other OS's for being insecure, because they are trying to achieveD something I don't think VMS ever will: to be on everybody's desktop.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 10:45:54 +1100L* From: "Dale King" <dalek@forpresident.com>3 Subject: Re: Once a fool, always a fool I guess ...i' Message-ID: <a7drbk$p7f$1@lore.csc.com>r  5 "Bob Ceculski" <bob@instantwhip.com> wrote in message 7 news:d7791aa1.0203210556.771a8e4b@posting.google.com...:7 > "Dale King" <dalek@forpresident.com> wrote in message # news:<a7bk76$hiq$1@lore.csc.com>...y9 > > "Bob Ceculski" <bob@instantwhip.com> wrote in message ; > > news:d7791aa1.0203201611.4943c0aa@posting.google.com...r4 > > > Analysts: Security flaws won't undermine Linux > > >e > > > By TODD R. WEISS > > > (March 15, 2002) > >sK > > > Three weeks ago, a vulnerability was reported in a Netfilter firewallnG > > > component used in various versions of the Linux kernel that could F > > > result in open ports that would allow intrusions by hackers (see
 > > > story).  > >iK > > Wouldn't it be nice to have something like netfilter in the VMS kernel? M > > Unfortunately I can't see VMS getting anything as powerful as this in theD nearM > > furture.  Even so, such a piece of software is unlikely to be problem (ors > > exploit) free first go.i > >nM > > Sure we can see VMS isn't susceptible to these attacks, but really, therem >[L > vms doesn't need netfilter!  you answered your own question in your second; > statement ... "vms isn't vulnerable to these attacks" ...I  J I never said it was not vulnerable.  That we won't know until someone gets interested enough to have a go.t   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 11:44:17 +1100?* From: "Dale King" <dalek@forpresident.com>3 Subject: Re: Once a fool, always a fool I guess ... ' Message-ID: <a7dup2$r32$1@lore.csc.com>a  6 "Rob Buxton" <rob.buxton@wcc.govt.nz> wrote in message* news:3c9a7a1b.71938081@news.wcc.govt.nz... >hF > No, it's part of the NAS license. Most or maybe even all Alphas comeG > with a NAS license now. For some older systems these were additional,fF > but all of our old VAXes and Alphas seem to have some flavour of NAS
 > license.  L As I said, a TCPIP license does not come with VMS.  You end up paying for itP separately to the OS whatever spin you put on it.  Then if you want SSH you haveF to buy ANOTHER IP stack if even if you've ended up with a NAS license.   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 00:13:49 GMTa4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net>3 Subject: Re: Once a fool, always a fool I guess ...c- Message-ID: <1Hum8.85073$Yv2.29322@rwcrnsc54>e  5 "Dale King" <dalek@forpresident.com> wrote in message ! news:a7dq68$oj9$1@lore.csc.com...i8 > "Jerry Leslie" <leslie@clio.rice.edu> wrote in message# > news:a7dgih$sp3$1@joe.rice.edu...r5 > > Paul Winalski (prune@ZAnkh-Morpork.mv.com) wrote: J > > : It's not really that VMS is unhackable--it's more that it representsF > > : such a miiniscule part of the overall computer marketplace these1 > > : days that nobody bothers to try to hack it.a > > :n > >o6 > > The best hackers in the country tried to hack VMS: > >-0 > >   http://www.pointsecure.com/Defconwhite.pdf% > >   "Virtually Unhackable" DEFCON9:e > L > This paper was written by a firm who is selling security products for VMS. Do > you believe them?W >l  F Not necessarily, but I do believe the members of the Dallas Fort WorthK Compaq Users Group who journeyed to Lost Wages and allowed the world's mostl; notorious hackers to try to have their way with the system.r   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 00:28:02 GMT ) From: rob.buxton@wcc.govt.nz (Rob Buxton)p3 Subject: Re: Once a fool, always a fool I guess ...l0 Message-ID: <3c9a7a1b.71938081@news.wcc.govt.nz>  / On Fri, 22 Mar 2002 10:29:32 +1100, "Dale King": <dalek@forpresident.com> wrote:u  @ >"Robert Deininger" <rdeininger@mindspring.com> wrote in messageF >news:rdeininger-2103020708470001@1cust225.tnt1.nashua.nh.da.uu.net...6 >> In article <a7bk76$hiq$1@lore.csc.com>, "Dale King"" >> <dalek@forpresident.com> wrote: >>M >> >Sure we can see VMS isn't susceptible to these attacks, but really, therer >isn'tM >> >a whole lot of this software functionality on VMS either.  Geez, we stilly >haven >> >to pay for a TCP/IP stack! >>L >> Huh?  We've been though this many times in recent weeks.  TCP/IP servicesH >> is bundled with most any new VMS system sale, and has been for years.: >> There may be exceptions, but nobody has pointed to one. >SJ >By bundled you mean in the Enterprise Integration Package right?  This is >separate to a VMS license.   D No, it's part of the NAS license. Most or maybe even all Alphas comeE with a NAS license now. For some older systems these were additional, D but all of our old VAXes and Alphas seem to have some flavour of NAS license.    I >> >I would much rather see VMS get this sort of functionality than users/	 >bragging.I >> >about how "unhackable" their OS is.  Windows/linux would be too if wer
 >> didn't runl >> >anything on it ;)s >>M >> So contact the TCP/IP services product manager at Compaq, or the folks who$M >> decide what to put in the products at Process Software, and tell them yourlL >> needs.  That is the way new features get added to VMS.  Not via newsgroup	 >> posts.  >:M >Example:  How long have we waited for a port of SSH?  That has been directlycP >requested many I time.  I understand there is a good deal of engineering effortC >to get this sort of stuff into VMS, and we will just have to wait.e >u >y >i >t   ------------------------------    Date: 21 Mar 2002 18:56:28 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) 3 Subject: Re: Once a fool, always a fool I guess ... 3 Message-ID: <wBGRyRZnv6zI@eisner.encompasserve.org>u  m In article <20020321204945.10274.qmail@gacracker.org>, Doc.Cypher <Use-Author-Address-Header@[127.1]> writes: < > On 21 Mar 2002, leslie@clio.rice.edu (Jerry Leslie) wrote:3 >>Paul Winalski (prune@ZAnkh-Morpork.mv.com) wrote: H >>: It's not really that VMS is unhackable--it's more that it representsD >>: such a miiniscule part of the overall computer marketplace these/ >>: days that nobody bothers to try to hack it.- >>:i >>4 >>The best hackers in the country tried to hack VMS: >>. >>  http://www.pointsecure.com/Defconwhite.pdf# >>  "Virtually Unhackable" DEFCON9:v > M > Compaq seems quite keen on having the "secure" tag attached to VMS with web K > servers and browsers, shouldn't they have a system up and running with an K > open challenge to hack it and a prize for doing so? It certainly wouldn't$K > be expensive to set up such a challenge. Such would also gather some freet% > publicity for the operating system.o   They had that at DEFcon.   ------------------------------   Date: 22 Mar 2002 00:37:38 GMT1 From: bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)e3 Subject: Re: Once a fool, always a fool I guess ...o, Message-ID: <a7duci$1hfv$1@info.cs.uofs.edu>  = In article <d7791aa1.0203211601.4bd0f3a4@posting.google.com>, +  bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski) writes:  |>J |> well, you better tell the defcon9 group that, because they spent 2 daysJ |> trying to hack in w/telnet turned on and all and "couldn't" ... I guess. |> these guys are all a bunch of idiots, hugh?  F Well, you made the original statement look even stupider.  I gave themE a week.  You expected a bunch of guys who in all likelyhood had nevergE seen VMS before to hack it in just two days.  It probably took longerE0 than that just to learn the directory structure.   bill   -- aJ Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   s   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 11:37:04 +1100 * From: "Dale King" <dalek@forpresident.com>3 Subject: Re: Once a fool, always a fool I guess ...n' Message-ID: <a7dubi$qp7$1@lore.csc.com>d  ? "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net> wrote in messaget' news:1Hum8.85073$Yv2.29322@rwcrnsc54...t > N > > This paper was written by a firm who is selling security products for VMS. > Do > > you believe them?e > >i >yH > Not necessarily, but I do believe the members of the Dallas Fort WorthM > Compaq Users Group who journeyed to Lost Wages and allowed the world's moste= > notorious hackers to try to have their way with the system.   L Granted.  Tests like these are by no means exhaustive or comprehensive but I guess do make good marketing.i  K Another fact is if someone is determined enough they will find a way in, as.O proved by the young lad who scammed the password (which is NOT mentioned in thee) whitepaper, but posted here last year ;)..   ------------------------------   Date: 22 Mar 2002 00:40:52 GMT1 From: bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)r3 Subject: Re: Once a fool, always a fool I guess ...h, Message-ID: <a7duik$1hfv$2@info.cs.uofs.edu>  - In article <1Hum8.85073$Yv2.29322@rwcrnsc54>,p7  "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net> writes:i |>  I |> Not necessarily, but I do believe the members of the Dallas Fort WorthON |> Compaq Users Group who journeyed to Lost Wages and allowed the world's most> |> notorious hackers to try to have their way with the system.  > But Terry, these were people who had probably never used a VMS? machine assuming they had actually seen one before.  And people ? here are surprised that they couldn't hack it in 2 days??  I'lle? bet Primos, RSX and RSTS/E would all have fared just as well in-1 in that environment.  Might be fun to watch, too..   bill   -- eJ Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   s   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 01:22:30 GMT 4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net>3 Subject: Re: Once a fool, always a fool I guess ... - Message-ID: <qHvm8.87054$af7.52829@rwcrnsc53>t  : "Larry Kilgallen" <Kilgallen@SpamCop.net> wrote in message- news:wBGRyRZnv6zI@eisner.encompasserve.org...eC > In article <20020321204945.10274.qmail@gacracker.org>, Doc.Cyphero+ <Use-Author-Address-Header@[127.1]> writes:a> > > On 21 Mar 2002, leslie@clio.rice.edu (Jerry Leslie) wrote:5 > >>Paul Winalski (prune@ZAnkh-Morpork.mv.com) wrote:aJ > >>: It's not really that VMS is unhackable--it's more that it representsF > >>: such a miiniscule part of the overall computer marketplace these1 > >>: days that nobody bothers to try to hack it.M > >>:  > >>6 > >>The best hackers in the country tried to hack VMS: > >>0 > >>  http://www.pointsecure.com/Defconwhite.pdf% > >>  "Virtually Unhackable" DEFCON9:d > > K > > Compaq seems quite keen on having the "secure" tag attached to VMS withh weboJ > > servers and browsers, shouldn't they have a system up and running with anD > > open challenge to hack it and a prize for doing so? It certainly wouldn'tH > > be expensive to set up such a challenge. Such would also gather some free' > > publicity for the operating system.) >o > They had that at DEFcon.  I What is downright ironic is that one of the folks involved in the DEFCON9iL bake-off (hack-off?) was an employee of a certain computer vendor. He had toH travel incognito lest he draw attention to the superior qualities of his employers' operating system.   ------------------------------    Date: 21 Mar 2002 21:02:53 -0600+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) 3 Subject: Re: Once a fool, always a fool I guess ...M3 Message-ID: <NNiLuWs4YYAG@eisner.encompasserve.org>   T In article <a7dq68$oj9$1@lore.csc.com>, "Dale King" <dalek@forpresident.com> writes:8 > "Jerry Leslie" <leslie@clio.rice.edu> wrote in message# > news:a7dgih$sp3$1@joe.rice.edu...S4 >> Paul Winalski (prune@ZAnkh-Morpork.mv.com) wrote:I >> : It's not really that VMS is unhackable--it's more that it representsoE >> : such a miiniscule part of the overall computer marketplace these 0 >> : days that nobody bothers to try to hack it. >> : >>5 >> The best hackers in the country tried to hack VMS:h >>/ >>   http://www.pointsecure.com/Defconwhite.pdf-$ >>   "Virtually Unhackable" DEFCON9: > P > This paper was written by a firm who is selling security products for VMS.  Do > you believe them?. >    	Believe in what sense?  HA!  A 	Sure... I see facts , perhaps a true hacker that was there couldg> 	state otherwise.  But actually, the strongest clue that it isD 	believable is the reputation of those who have their names attached7 	to it.  Stellar reputation goes a long way in my book.b   				Robo   ------------------------------    Date: 21 Mar 2002 21:20:53 -0600+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young)e3 Subject: Re: Once a fool, always a fool I guess ... 3 Message-ID: <4AmxiJY6Ttqc@eisner.encompasserve.org>w  T In article <a7dubi$qp7$1@lore.csc.com>, "Dale King" <dalek@forpresident.com> writes:A > "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net> wrote in message ) > news:1Hum8.85073$Yv2.29322@rwcrnsc54...e >>O >> > This paper was written by a firm who is selling security products for VMS.  >> Do  >> > you believe them? >> > >>I >> Not necessarily, but I do believe the members of the Dallas Fort Worth N >> Compaq Users Group who journeyed to Lost Wages and allowed the world's most> >> notorious hackers to try to have their way with the system. > N > Granted.  Tests like these are by no means exhaustive or comprehensive but I > guess do make good marketing.- > M > Another fact is if someone is determined enough they will find a way in, as>Q > proved by the young lad who scammed the password (which is NOT mentioned in thes+ > whitepaper, but posted here last year ;).r >    	Here is the incident:  } http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=5B57189920E7D41190B500606D210686011A6AB0%40mailsvr.jfcom.mil&oe=ISO-8859-1&output=gplain,  J > So I was about to pack it in and then up comes a fresh young man lookingK > more like a high school kid then a gothic, caffeine frenzied, hacker...He 9 > began to ask some questions about OpenVMS and we began h > to talk..i > H > Soon it began to feel more like a DECUS encounter in one of the CompaqK > National Events, comparing information and swapping stories then came the,K > innocent request. We created a user account and I began to show the young F > man how to create files and change directory even creating a foreign
 > symbol for oL > "cd:==set def" to make him feel more at home with the services on OpenVMS.L > Friendly and inquisitive and I was lulled into Usergroup mode talking with > a peer about VMS stuff...  > I > "Let me show you my telnet scanner" the youth beamed as he plugged intou( > the server hub (my mistake number one) > J > "Go ahead and log in, I'll show you how I can capture the whole session" > said the youth.e >  AK > I logged in across Telnet (my mistake number two) and logged in to one of. > the privileged accounts G > as the young man scammed my password, even showing me the ease of the 
 > capture. > I > "Interesting I noted" (not the least bit tired by my previous 14 hours)4 > but you could H > only compromise an account if you were on the right side of the bridge > /router with the v > telnet session." > K > "Yeah admitted the young hacker... " It would be a pretty lame hack which  > required physical access." > D > "A pretty lame hack indeed..." I smiled as we continued to talked. > F > I sat down and began to go through my checklist for locking down theJ > server for the night after that and the young hacker returned to his PC. > (IJ > also had made a mental note to change all the priv'd passwords after our > educational exchange.o > I > Before I had time to do anything, the young hacker closed his notebook,o/ > unplugged and placed a note in front of me...s > H > "Check this out..." claimed the youth as his note pointed me to one of
 > many rootedg! > directories on the user disk...r > J > I changed my directory and found he had indeed placed two files one withH > his name and a taunting brag.  I immediately understood the hacker hadD > taken advantage of a tired BOFH, just for his own points... We hadG > switched from friendly exchange to sniping hack attack as soon as thev6 > hacker thought he had enough to accomplish his goal. > J > "Very Nice" I congratulated as I unplugged the network hub from the rest > of the CTF network > L > Then I spoke a bit more formally to the youth  "Now if you'll excuse me.." > L > Feeling a bit disillusioned by the event and I felt a bit more tired while > I set to work K > to recover from the back stabbing...  The sadder thing is that I realizedi > this young hackerkL > would do anything, say anything, become anything to accomplish his current	 > goal.    > L > The young man attempted to engage me further and tried shoulder surfing my > laptop but I waited J > until he was across the rooms before locking down the all the privileged > accounts with new pass iK > words, through a telnet session that was not connected to the rest of thee > network... >   C 	So what.  Social Engineering doesn't count... no more than someones? 	being corrupt and giving away passwords.  We are talking aboutc* 	hacking a system.  Read the whole thread.   				Rob    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 14:31:31 +1100h* From: "Dale King" <dalek@forpresident.com>3 Subject: Re: Once a fool, always a fool I guess ...l' Message-ID: <a7e8ij$41d$1@lore.csc.com>a  8 "Rob Young" <young_r@encompasserve.org> wrote in message- news:4AmxiJY6Ttqc@eisner.encompasserve.org...sN > In article <a7dubi$qp7$1@lore.csc.com>, "Dale King" <dalek@forpresident.com> writes:t+ > > news:1Hum8.85073$Yv2.29322@rwcrnsc54...bO > > Another fact is if someone is determined enough they will find a way in, as-O > > proved by the young lad who scammed the password (which is NOT mentioned inl theg- > > whitepaper, but posted here last year ;).   D > So what.  Social Engineering doesn't count... no more than someone@ > being corrupt and giving away passwords.  We are talking about+ > hacking a system.  Read the whole thread.   O So what?  He was determined and he got in.  That's the point I made in my post.lF It could be argued that sending a password in plain text is a security vulnerability in itself.  D Ask yourself - why did point secure omit that from their whitepaper?   ------------------------------    Date: 21 Mar 2002 21:57:11 -0600+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young)u3 Subject: Re: Once a fool, always a fool I guess ...f3 Message-ID: <UIk9My1fHNln@eisner.encompasserve.org>-  ` In article <a7dht0$1bvf$1@info.cs.uofs.edu>, bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes:) > In article <a7dgih$sp3$1@joe.rice.edu>,s. >  leslie@clio.rice.edu (Jerry Leslie) writes:6 > |> Paul Winalski (prune@ZAnkh-Morpork.mv.com) wrote:K > |> : It's not really that VMS is unhackable--it's more that it represents<G > |> : such a miiniscule part of the overall computer marketplace these.2 > |> : days that nobody bothers to try to hack it. > |> : > |> t7 > |> The best hackers in the country tried to hack VMS:e > |> s1 > |>   http://www.pointsecure.com/Defconwhite.pdft& > |>   "Virtually Unhackable" DEFCON9: > B > It took hackers years of work to find the holes in Unix (most of+ > which have fixes available within hours) t  @ 	Good thing, cause several of the Unixes have holes on a monthly< 	basis revealed and so many platforms out there, you can hit0 	those holes many months after patches roll. . .   > and because this wasn'tl@ > duplicated on VMS in a week you think VMS is un-hackable??  It@ > really is time people came to the realization that the primaryC > thing keeping VMS un-hackable is it's not being readily available-@ > to hackers due to a very limited presence in the real world.    : 	Myth... it is unhackable mostly because it is unhackable.$ 	That and careful system management.   > AgE > presence I fear is going to decrease over the next few years rather: > than increase.  :-(  >   A 	This has been re-hashed.  But the best explanation (to me) aboutpH 	VMS superior security comes from someone that is an expert at security.  \ http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=3C23EA72.48874137%40gce.com&oe=ISO-8859-1&output=gplain     Not so. J The reason for the lack of buffer overflows is due to a number of factors.J One: VMS habitually has used descriptors to pass strings, which have sizesK passed. (Contrast windows NT and successors. Take a look at the ntifs.h andhI you will find numerous input arguments which are null terminated strings,iI some even which are arrays of such, terminated by a second null.These areeF sitting like time bombs waiting to cause trouble, and will not readilyI be removed by automated tools pulled from the public domain or internallyaJ written that find gets() and friends. As a rule input string size is NEVERG available, and many of the APIs are security critical. VMS OTOH must beiG searched long and hard to find any such cases, thanks to the insistencefF on descriptors. It may have been a pain but it was pain with a payoff.  L Two: The process that creates VMS asks about security and customer data, notK just by code review, but asks at investigation time, at design review time,>H at function spec time, and at code review time. This makes it relatively6 hard to slip things by. The culture insists on polish.  M Three: Much of VMS has been to the wars, gotten badly hurt, and been replacedV. so that much has changed since V1, V2, or V3.   M THAT is why VMS gets so few problems. If it were hit harder, a few more mightdL surface, but the "today's Nth critical security flaw" you see in Windows, orL the "this week's Nth flaw" that happens in Linux at times would still IMO beL rare, as it is with OpenBSD, for the same reasons: the people writing the OSK care deeply about getting security right and are damn good at what they do.f    L If you take code written by careful people watching out for one another, you get0H a better result than you get with code written by careless folks workingJ separately. Less code, generally, but FAR less problems down the road. NorJ am I sure that over the very long haul you get less code, since ultimately$ crappy code needs to be redone more.  J The claim below amounts to "all coders are equal" in security results. ButI some companies foster care, others foster carelessness. This makes coders G unequal, and we should be able to figure out which way works better forp	 security.c Glenn Everhart   ===   C 	To add to this... and concur... people blather on about "security n9 	through obscurity - this is badness!"  Absolutely not.     G 	During World War II, some bright folks came up with the idea of using l= 	native Navajo Indians for that very reason - obscurity - to $3 	communicate radio messages.  It worked flawlessly.l  ( 	There is a good overview of it in here:  f http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0385495323/qid=1016768667/sr=2-2/ref=sr_2_2/103-8641862-3821445  F 	Probably better sources elsewhere.  Concurring, obscurity is a *VERY*F 	good thing.  And if there is a number of multi-million dollar prizes D 	(securities, fund transfers) waiting at the end of the rainbow, we A 	would be naive to think that folks aren't *really* intersted in w. 	hacking it (regardless of how obscure it is).   				Robp   ------------------------------    Date: 21 Mar 2002 22:00:48 -0600+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young)c3 Subject: Re: Once a fool, always a fool I guess ...t3 Message-ID: <Who+Lm+FuT4Q@eisner.encompasserve.org>e  T In article <a7e8ij$41d$1@lore.csc.com>, "Dale King" <dalek@forpresident.com> writes:: > "Rob Young" <young_r@encompasserve.org> wrote in message/ > news:4AmxiJY6Ttqc@eisner.encompasserve.org...iO >> In article <a7dubi$qp7$1@lore.csc.com>, "Dale King" <dalek@forpresident.com>.	 > writes:u, >> > news:1Hum8.85073$Yv2.29322@rwcrnsc54...P >> > Another fact is if someone is determined enough they will find a way in, asP >> > proved by the young lad who scammed the password (which is NOT mentioned in > the0. >> > whitepaper, but posted here last year ;). > E >> So what.  Social Engineering doesn't count... no more than someonepA >> being corrupt and giving away passwords.  We are talking about>, >> hacking a system.  Read the whole thread. > . > So what?  He was determined and he got in.    = 	No more than I would have been impressed if someone had heldi? 	a gun to his head and got in.  Punk moves don't count.  If youb& 	have to resort to scumbag techniques:  /                              whoop-dee-doo-wah!t   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 22:53:44 -0500t2 From: rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger)3 Subject: Re: Once a fool, always a fool I guess ...mK Message-ID: <rdeininger-2103022253450001@1cust116.tnt3.nashua.nh.da.uu.net>a  3 In article <a7dup2$r32$1@lore.csc.com>, "Dale King"a <dalek@forpresident.com> wrote:   7 >"Rob Buxton" <rob.buxton@wcc.govt.nz> wrote in message-+ >news:3c9a7a1b.71938081@news.wcc.govt.nz...0 >>G >> No, it's part of the NAS license. Most or maybe even all Alphas comeOH >> with a NAS license now. For some older systems these were additional,G >> but all of our old VAXes and Alphas seem to have some flavour of NASS >> license.y >n3 >As I said, a TCPIP license does not come with VMS.    Yes it does.   >You end up paying for itr4 >separately to the OS whatever spin you put on it.    G You're playing with words.  You don't pay separately, any more than youiF pay separately for each resistor and capacitor in an alphaserver.  OneD part number, one price. System, OS, NAS, and whatever else is in theI package.  I haven't seen a VMS system from Digital/Compaq offered withoutlC NAS (or whatever the name of the week is) for many years.  Standard C configurations DO include NAS.  Details have varied over the years.i  I Yes, you could likely negotiate a lower price if you got a system withoutlG the NAS/EIP license.  But you'd have to cut though a lot of red tape toi$ even order such a non-standard item.  G You could also order an alpha server without power supplies, and supply-H your own.  I doubt Compaq would waste time on a customer who wanted justG one system, but if you wanted a dozen or two, they'd cut a deal.  And Is< don't doubt you'd pay less than the price of a standard box.  @ So let's all bitch about having to pay extra for power supplies.  > I must be missing something.  I just don't get this complaint.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 22:44:00 -0500 2 From: rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger)3 Subject: Re: Once a fool, always a fool I guess ...MK Message-ID: <rdeininger-2103022244000001@1cust116.tnt3.nashua.nh.da.uu.net>r  3 In article <a7dqct$ol8$1@lore.csc.com>, "Dale King"h <dalek@forpresident.com> wrote:e  @ >"Robert Deininger" <rdeininger@mindspring.com> wrote in messageF >news:rdeininger-2103020708470001@1cust225.tnt1.nashua.nh.da.uu.net...6 >> In article <a7bk76$hiq$1@lore.csc.com>, "Dale King"" >> <dalek@forpresident.com> wrote: >>M >> >Sure we can see VMS isn't susceptible to these attacks, but really, there  >isn'tM >> >a whole lot of this software functionality on VMS either.  Geez, we stilla >havet >> >to pay for a TCP/IP stack! >>L >> Huh?  We've been though this many times in recent weeks.  TCP/IP servicesH >> is bundled with most any new VMS system sale, and has been for years.: >> There may be exceptions, but nobody has pointed to one. >eJ >By bundled you mean in the Enterprise Integration Package right?  This is >separate to a VMS license..  C Yup. Separate PAK, typically bundled in the same part number as thelG hardware and the VMS base license.  Does it matter that it's a separate- PAK?  M >> So contact the TCP/IP services product manager at Compaq, or the folks whouM >> decide what to put in the products at Process Software, and tell them youriL >> needs.  That is the way new features get added to VMS.  Not via newsgroup	 >> posts.r >sM >Example:  How long have we waited for a port of SSH?  That has been directly P >requested many I time.  I understand there is a good deal of engineering effortC >to get this sort of stuff into VMS, and we will just have to wait.t  G Well, if SSH is in the pipeline, it did NOT get there via newsgroup.  IcC know of cases where customers made a strong case for additional VMS D functionality, and the work was done in a matter of months, and madeH available on a field test basis.  Work will get higher priority if thereH is a known customer need.  Bigger or more numerous customers will likelyG get higher priority.  A need that's not known to the appropriate Compaq H management will probably get a very low priority, and the work will only5 be done after a long delay, or as a midnight project.   E I've never said that getting the information to the right managers is I easy, or that they are particularly eager to seek out customers in need. -J But doing it the official way is still more likely to produce results than are newsgroup discussions.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 15:22:20 +1100m* From: "Dale King" <dalek@forpresident.com>3 Subject: Re: Once a fool, always a fool I guess ...k' Message-ID: <a7ebht$5j3$1@lore.csc.com>h  8 "Rob Young" <young_r@encompasserve.org> wrote in message- news:Who+Lm+FuT4Q@eisner.encompasserve.org...T> > No more than I would have been impressed if someone had held@ > a gun to his head and got in.  Punk moves don't count.  If you' > have to resort to scumbag techniques:h >a1 >                              whoop-dee-doo-wah!eK Noone held a gun to anyone's head, that is exactly why these sort of socialh# engineering attacks ARE impressive.   N 1: We OpenVMS (and yes, any OS for that matter) system managers are only human and can be caught of guard.   K 2: OpenVMS is still at a stage where passwords are sent over the network ina clear text.b  N Early hackers oftentimes only had social engineering on their side.  Some good books in this area are:t  2 Bruce Sterling's "The Hacker Crackdown" (get it atE http://www.eff.org/Publications/Bruce_Sterling/Hacker_Crackdown/) anda  K Suelette Dreyfus' "Underground (get it at http://www.underground-book.com/)a   Both worth the read.  N Would you be prepared to put all of your VMS boxes on the internet to test the theory?.   ------------------------------    Date: 21 Mar 2002 22:45:11 -0600+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young)k3 Subject: Re: Once a fool, always a fool I guess ...E3 Message-ID: <2uKa5O73vZJ$@eisner.encompasserve.org>n  T In article <a7ebht$5j3$1@lore.csc.com>, "Dale King" <dalek@forpresident.com> writes:: > "Rob Young" <young_r@encompasserve.org> wrote in message/ > news:Who+Lm+FuT4Q@eisner.encompasserve.org... ? >> No more than I would have been impressed if someone had helddA >> a gun to his head and got in.  Punk moves don't count.  If youh( >> have to resort to scumbag techniques: >>2 >>                              whoop-dee-doo-wah!M > Noone held a gun to anyone's head, that is exactly why these sort of social % > engineering attacks ARE impressive.  > P > 1: We OpenVMS (and yes, any OS for that matter) system managers are only human > and can be caught of guard.. > M > 2: OpenVMS is still at a stage where passwords are sent over the network inm
 > clear text.h >   ; 	I take it you aren't using Multinet... SSH has been in used= 	for a while.  They just rolled SSH2.  I use Multinet TCP/IP.   P > Early hackers oftentimes only had social engineering on their side.  Some good > books in this area are:d > 4 > Bruce Sterling's "The Hacker Crackdown" (get it atG > http://www.eff.org/Publications/Bruce_Sterling/Hacker_Crackdown/) and. > M > Suelette Dreyfus' "Underground (get it at http://www.underground-book.com/)  >  > Both worth the read. >    	Cool.  P > Would you be prepared to put all of your VMS boxes on the internet to test the	 > theory?l   	I wouldn't be allowed.v  B 	But I wouldn't mind putting one on there, configed like so in theG 	following... and I would access it via SSH - always -.  If I couldn't,nE 	or needed to access directly, I would unplug the ethernet connectionh' 	before using something other than SSH.   h http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=X0cZva633pda%40eisner.encompasserve.org&oe=ISO-8859-1&output=gplain    O In article <3C6C400C.9090808@tsoft-inc.com>, David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>  writes:d   > G > I don't think I really need to lock the system down in ways that are hH > available to VMS.  If I thought that, I wouldn't have allowed outside I > access in the first place.  Any suggestions on things that I should be u > considering? >   : 	Some fairly common techniques... assuming vanilla system.  # 	1)  Identify all privved accounts.o9 	2)  Disuser non-essential privved accounts - FIELD, etc.l7 	3)  Make SYSTEM /NOLOCAL - i.e. batch and detach only. @ 	4)  Before doing 3, add another unguessable username with PRIV.- 		Access this account to do anything privved.k  8 	5)  Depending on TCPIP package, you should do something, 		like this (note: trimmed several options):   SERVER-CONFIG>show /full telnetr Service "TELNET": 1         TCP socket (AF_INET,SOCK_STREAM), Port 23a#         SERVICE() = Internal_Telneth&         Accept Hosts = IP-188.88.71.98#         Accept Nets = IP-198.44.0.0e2         Reject by default all other hosts and nets    @ 	That one host allowed to remote TELNET has a hole burned in theC 	firewall.  Otherwise, we only allow TELNET connections from *our* aI 	network.  Those IP addresses above are not real.  Do the same for FTP.  -F 	Check over all TCPIP services and disable any not in use.  Don't use A 	RSHELL , RLOGIN to this box.  Treat it as a potential source of   	infection.   A 	Keep an eye on your logs.  Write a DCL routine to scan log files 4 	for "rejects" (appears you are already doing that).  @ 	For extra safety, you might want to access that privved account= 	only when you have Internet connection down OR directly from A 	a workstation console.  Do NOT TELNET into that privved account.sB 	Is this necessary?  Who knows... but flying unprotected (i.e. no $ 	firewall) even with VMS... what if?   ===h  ? 	And of course I would run through and look at file protectionst6 	with a fine tooth comb in SYS$MANAGER and SYS$SYSTEM.  9 	Sure... I'd let the kiddies poke and prod.  No problemo.a   				Robe   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 16:03:14 +1100?* From: "Dale King" <dalek@forpresident.com>3 Subject: Re: Once a fool, always a fool I guess ... ' Message-ID: <a7eduj$6r0$1@lore.csc.com>u  8 "Rob Young" <young_r@encompasserve.org> wrote in message- news:2uKa5O73vZJ$@eisner.encompasserve.org...-< > I take it you aren't using Multinet... SSH has been in use> > for a while.  They just rolled SSH2.  I use Multinet TCP/IP.M Correct. UCX (or Digital/Compaq TCPIP Services) or whatever it will be calleda	 tomorrow.-  C > But I wouldn't mind putting one on there, configed like so in theeH > following... and I would access it via SSH - always -.  If I couldn't,F > or needed to access directly, I would unplug the ethernet connection( > before using something other than SSH.  O Sounds like a good checklist.  Something like this should go into the "Guide toiN System Security", right after securing DECnet.  Security was something the OSI, model was going to address for us wasn't it?  P Something that just occurred to me: does anyone have any info on what the recentL problems with Motif are?  I guess that would be vulnerability for VMS by the sounds of the ECO info.f   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 00:19:34 GMTt6 From: "Andy Bustamante" <a_c_bustamante@earthlink.net>- Subject: Re: OpenVMS 7.2-1 and UCX 4.2 ECO 05oC Message-ID: <qMum8.2299$oi.109130@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net>r  G Actually you do need a reboot when upgrading from UCX 4.x to TCPIP 5.1.wH Customer telnet and web servers rolled over transparently and there is aF noticeable performance improvement in moving from v4.x to 5.0a.  (Just- loaded v5.1 last night on a production site.)t  B One ugliness:  On an Alpha with multiple NICs where there is no IPL configuration on a card, that card will use the configuration from the firstI configured card.  That is, EWA0: running LAT/DECnet and EWB0: running UCXeJ configured for 192.168.1.1/24.  Post upgrade both NICs will attempt to useL 192.168.1.1/24.  Use TCPIP $ SET NOINTERFACE 'nic and SET CONFIG NOINTERFACEL 'nic.  Drove me crazy.  Tested the upgrade on development Alpha no problems,D first customer site had midnight downtime for this.  Odd things wereJ happening and it was more than a few minutes to find the problem, but madeK the downtime window.  This is very duplicatable behavior if anyone from the C TCPIP group is out there.  I never followed up on this with Compaq.f     -- Andy Bustamanten Remove the ASCII 95s to replyr      : "Didier Morandi" <Didier.Morandi@free.fr> wrote in message  news:3C98FA0D.300AC17@free.fr...H > Fabio, it takes less than ten minutes to install TCP/IP 5 and it works	 perfectly I > well on 7.2-1 and you don't even need to reboot. just stop UCX, installf TCP/IP, > from the VMS CD, restart TCP/IP and voil. >a > D. >f > Fabio Cardoso wrote: > >a	 > > David  > >b8 > > This machine is not clustered, and the users give me9 > > just a few hours per weekend to stop it. It is a 24x7 9 > > machine, and I dont have conditions now to upgrade toa5 > > VMS 7.3 because we didnt test our systems in thist5 > > version. It is better to upgrade "slowly", I willi2 > > go to V7.2-1 because all the other machines in6 > > the company (other sites) are in this max version.8 > > I dont want to cause high impact in this upgrade, it > > is8 > > because I prefer to just patch the UCX, but if there1 > > is no condition I will upgrade to TCPIP 5.0A.T > >h8 > > I have 1500 printer and server  queues running under > > UCX. > >f > > Regards" > >' > > FC > >l7 > > --- David Beatty <David.Beatty@qwertysasasdfgh.com>N
 > > wrote: > > >n7 > > > Any reason why you would not upgrade to V7.2-2 ort > > > V7.3 of VMS? > > >s: > > > Any reason why you would not upgrade to V5.0 or V5.17 > > > of Compaq TCP/IP Services?  I don't think V4.2 isy( > > > supported higher than V7.1 of VMS. > > >u > > > David R. Beatty  > > > 5 > > > On Wed, 20 Mar 2002 04:27:45 -0800 (PST), Fabios
 > > > Cardoso ' > > > <fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br> wrote:  > > >o) > > > >Anyone is using OpenVMS 7.2-1 withe > > > >UCX 4.2 ECO 05 ?g > > > >o9 > > > >I am planning to upgrade one Alphaserver this next 6 > > > >weeked. The actual versions are OpenVMS 7.1-1h2 > > > >and UCX 4.2 ECO 1.c > > > >f+ > > > >Reading the README of the UCX ECO atm+ > > > >ftp.support.compaq.com, it is sayingt. > > > >that UCX ECO 05 is compatible just with! > > > >OpenVMS 7.1 (max version).  > > > >i/ > > > >Is that right ? Is the V7.2-1 compatiblei% > > > >only with TCPIP Services 5.x ?e > > > >o > > > >Regards > > > >  > > > >  > > > >b > > > >=====! > > > >==========================t > > > >Fbio dos Santos Cardosor > > > >OpenVMS System Manageru > > > >Rio de Janeiro - Brazil > > > >fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.brd! > > > >==========================w > > > >.9 > > > >__________________________________________________r > > > >Do You Yahoo!?52 > > > >Yahoo! Sports - live college hoops coverage > > > >http://sports.yahoo.com/n > > >  > >e	 > > =====b > > ========================== > > Fbio dos Santos Cardoso > > OpenVMS System Manager > > Rio de Janeiro - Brazilv > > fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br > > ========================== > >r6 > > __________________________________________________ > > Do You Yahoo!?/ > > Yahoo! Sports - live college hoops coveragen > > http://sports.yahoo.com/ >c > --J >   ----------------------------------------------------------------------J > MORANDI Consultants  -  WEB: http://Didier.Morandi.Free.fr/index_us.htmlJ > Pflanzschulstrasse 53, 8004 Zurich, Switzerland. GSM: +41 (0)79 705 4670J > 19, chemin de la Butte, 31400 Toulouse, France.  GSM: +33 (0)6 7983 6418 > J > Disaster Recovery Plans, Computer Security Audits, DEC OpenVMS ExpertiseJ > On parle franais Man spricht Deutsch se habla Castellano English spoken >i   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 19:55:51 GMTy4 From: "Matt Muggeridge" <Matt.Muggeridge@compaq.com>D Subject: Re: Problem with SMTP mail on TCPIP v5.1. Help is sought...> Message-ID: <bVqm8.17015$Hz2.68392@news-server.bigpond.net.au>  L So your outbound mail is sent successfully, your inbound mail bounces at the gateway?  I What reject message do your remote senders receive when the mail bounces?g  1 >the gatekeeper rejects email sent to the address   F I cannot imagine how your changes could cause the gatekeeper to reject
 inbound mail.h   Matt.s   --= -------------------------------------------------------------d OpenVMS TCP/IP Engineering Enterprise Computing Group Compaq Computer Corporation  Gold Coast, AUSTRALIAr= -------------------------------------------------------------f    : "Petros Dafniotis" <pdafniotis@yahoo.com> wrote in message7 news:e54adf36.0203210516.1c3b7640@posting.google.com...1E > I have a big problem after I have upgraded to TCPIP v5.1 (I had 5.0  > before). TheD > problem is on both of my Alphas (one running OpenVMS 7.2-2 and the
 > other 7.3).  >NH > I am sending email behind a firewall. So on my computer (name: GVCRD1), > my real domain name inside the company is: >s > gvcrd1.somename.mycompany.com  > ? > I have to ask SMTP to send the email to the outside world as:e >  > gvcrd1.email.mycompany.com >o@ > When response arrives at the gatekeeper of my company, this is > automatically changed to:t >r > gvcrd1.somename.mycompany.comp >i! > and gets delivered to my Alpha.a >yD > Now here is the problem. This was all working great till I did the > upgrade. NowG > it does not function anymore in the sense that the gatekeeper rejectst > emailg0 > sent to the address:   gvcrd1.email.dupont.comF > However I do not think that anythings has changed on the gatekeeper.E > Some setting must be screwed up on my computer but I cannot find itv > out. >sG > Of course delivery from my machine to the outside world works but noti > the otherA
 > way around.  >  > Here is the output:h >l > $ tcpip show config smtp/fullc >  > SMTP Configuration > 	 > Optionso< > Initial interval:   0 00:30:00.00       Address_max:    16
 > NOEIGHT_BITC< > Retry interval:     0 01:00:00.00       Hop_count_max:  16	 > NORELAYy# > Maximum interval:   3 00:00:00.00a
 > TOP_HEADERS  >'> > Timeout             Initial       Mail    Receipt       Data > Terminateh> >   Send:                   5          5          5          3 > 10 >   Receive:                5  >p. > Alternate gateway:  GATEKEEPER.MYCOMPANY.COM! > General gateway:    not defined  >m8 > Substitute domain:  HIDDEN, GVCRD1.EMAIL.MYCOMPANY.COM! > Zone:               not defineds >.  > Postmaster:         TCPIP$SMTPE > Log file:           SYS$SPECIFIC:[TCPIP$SMTP]TCPIP$SMTP_LOGFILE.LOG8 >l2 > Generic queue       Queues   Participating nodes >o% > TCPIP$SMTP_GVCRD1_00   1     GVCRD1@ >d > and also:r >  > $ show service smtp/full >0 > Service: SMTPs/ >                            State:     Enableda@ > Port:               25     Protocol:  TCP             Address:	 > 0.0.0.0>@ > Inactivity:          5     User_name: TCPIP$SMTP      Process: > TCPIP$SMTPE > Limit:              10     Active:      0             Peak:       1  >e4 > File:         TCPIP$SYSTEM:TCPIP$SMTP_RECV_RUN.COM > Flags:        Listen >u > Socket Opts:  Rcheck Schecke2 >  Receive:            0     Send:               0 >MH > Log Opts:     Acpt Actv Dactv Conn Error Exit Logi Logo Mdfy Rjct TimO > Addr@ >  File:        SYS$SPECIFIC:[TCPIP$SMTP]TCPIP$SMTP_RECV_RUN.LOG >i
 > Security >  Reject msg:  not defineda >  Accept host: 0.0.0.0p >  Accept netw: 0.0.0.0l >i > -------------u% > Any help appreciated. Kind regards,  >e > Petros > ---t > Petros Dafniotis, PhD  > pdafniotis@yahoo.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 20:36:26 -0500h1 From: Michael Austin <maustin@firstdbasource.com>tD Subject: Re: Problem with SMTP mail on TCPIP v5.1. Help is sought...2 Message-ID: <3C9A8A9A.CDDD522C@firstdbasource.com>  ) Hmmmm... I recognize that node name... :)a  H There has to be an "A" record somewhere that points your newly formattedE address.  Why?  Trying to send/receive mail where the IP address does @ not match the DNS could be considered spam as this is one of theE techniques used to spoof addresses.  I regularly bounce messages thataG appear to be bogus.  TCPIPV5.1A has some default settings for this sort C of thing (preventing spam).  Check the docs and look at configuringw! "good-clients,bad-clients, etc...s   here is a good place to start.  I http://www.openvms.compaq.com:8000/73FINAL/6526/6526pro_031.html#antispam    HTH. -- a Regards,  7 Michael Austin            Registered Linux User #261163 7 First DBA Source, Inc.    http://www.firstdbasource.com  Sr. Consultant     Matt Muggeridge wrote: > N > So your outbound mail is sent successfully, your inbound mail bounces at the
 > gateway? > K > What reject message do your remote senders receive when the mail bounces?y > 3 > >the gatekeeper rejects email sent to the address- > H > I cannot imagine how your changes could cause the gatekeeper to reject > inbound mail.k >  > Matt.. >  > --? > -------------------------------------------------------------e > OpenVMS TCP/IP Engineering > Enterprise Computing Group > Compaq Computer CorporationW > Gold Coast, AUSTRALIAa? > -------------------------------------------------------------e > < > "Petros Dafniotis" <pdafniotis@yahoo.com> wrote in message9 > news:e54adf36.0203210516.1c3b7640@posting.google.com... G > > I have a big problem after I have upgraded to TCPIP v5.1 (I had 5.0n > > before). TheF > > problem is on both of my Alphas (one running OpenVMS 7.2-2 and the > > other 7.3).M > >dJ > > I am sending email behind a firewall. So on my computer (name: GVCRD1). > > my real domain name inside the company is: > >e! > > gvcrd1.somename.mycompany.comk > > A > > I have to ask SMTP to send the email to the outside world as:g > >h > > gvcrd1.email.mycompany.com > >rB > > When response arrives at the gatekeeper of my company, this is > > automatically changed to:c > >r! > > gvcrd1.somename.mycompany.coml > >D# > > and gets delivered to my Alpha./ > >uF > > Now here is the problem. This was all working great till I did the > > upgrade. NowI > > it does not function anymore in the sense that the gatekeeper rejects-	 > > emaila5 > > sent to the address:   gvcrd1.email.mycompany.comeH > > However I do not think that anythings has changed on the gatekeeper.G > > Some setting must be screwed up on my computer but I cannot find itb > > out. > >sI > > Of course delivery from my machine to the outside world works but notr
 > > the othero > > way around.a > >  > > Here is the output:e > >a! > > $ tcpip show config smtp/fullo > >a > > SMTP Configuration > >h > > Optionsa> > > Initial interval:   0 00:30:00.00       Address_max:    16 > > NOEIGHT_BIT > > > Retry interval:     0 01:00:00.00       Hop_count_max:  16 > > NORELAY!% > > Maximum interval:   3 00:00:00.00t > > TOP_HEADERSy > >e@ > > Timeout             Initial       Mail    Receipt       Data
 > > Terminated@ > >   Send:                   5          5          5          3 > > 10 > >   Receive:                5V > > 0 > > Alternate gateway:  GATEKEEPER.MYCOMPANY.COM# > > General gateway:    not definedI > > : > > Substitute domain:  HIDDEN, GVCRD1.EMAIL.MYCOMPANY.COM# > > Zone:               not definede > >i" > > Postmaster:         TCPIP$SMTPG > > Log file:           SYS$SPECIFIC:[TCPIP$SMTP]TCPIP$SMTP_LOGFILE.LOGt > >r4 > > Generic queue       Queues   Participating nodes > >t' > > TCPIP$SMTP_GVCRD1_00   1     GVCRD1/ > >_
 > > and also:_ > >d > > $ show service smtp/full > >  > > Service: SMTPt1 > >                            State:     EnabledwB > > Port:               25     Protocol:  TCP             Address: > > 0.0.0.0xB > > Inactivity:          5     User_name: TCPIP$SMTP      Process: > > TCPIP$SMTPG > > Limit:              10     Active:      0             Peak:       1n > >o6 > > File:         TCPIP$SYSTEM:TCPIP$SMTP_RECV_RUN.COM > > Flags:        Listen > >u > > Socket Opts:  Rcheck Scheckh4 > >  Receive:            0     Send:               0 > >.J > > Log Opts:     Acpt Actv Dactv Conn Error Exit Logi Logo Mdfy Rjct TimO > > AddrB > >  File:        SYS$SPECIFIC:[TCPIP$SMTP]TCPIP$SMTP_RECV_RUN.LOG > >f > > Security > >  Reject msg:  not definedh > >  Accept host: 0.0.0.0h > >  Accept netw: 0.0.0.0a > >  > > ------------- ' > > Any help appreciated. Kind regards,e > >s
 > > Petros > > ---  > > Petros Dafniotis, PhDn > > pdafniotis@yahoo.com   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 20:04:50 GMTn* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>" Subject: Re: Right down the middleC Message-ID: <C1rm8.188570$uv5.15996126@bin6.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>t  @ "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> wrote in message- news:W9pm8.1324$fL6.26734@news.cpqcorp.net...    ...g  J > "Company man"?  No.  I just believe that all things being equal, that HPF > provides a wider set of opportunities for VMS's future, than Compaq.  E If you're comparing it to Compaq with no significant changes from itsaG constitution today, then I probably agree.  But since I don't see VMS's7I opportunities as being at all good under HP management either (especiallytL when that management includes many of the bozos who have gotten Compaq whereF it is today) I think VMS would have a better chance if the merger wereJ defeated, since that at least opens a noticeable possibility that Compaq'sK current management would be given the boot and better management brought insI (even Compaq's BoD may not be stupid enough to make the same mistake theyfG did last time, given that the results of that mistake are now obvious).i   ...f  > > My "main ambition" to retire to Florida is kind-of, sort-of, but-not-reallyJ > a joke.  Getting out of the NH weather has been near the top of my to-doH > list for about the last 7-8 years.  But it has become a lot like JamesC > Gardner in "Support Your Local Sheriff" where he is on his way too
 Australia,F > but never does manage to get there.  One day, the phase of the moon, kismet,tJ > opportunity, or just plain luck will conspire to make it happen - but itF > won't be because I want to leave OpenVMS Engineering.  Nor am I here because L >  I'm "locked into" VMS Engineering.  I simply have a wife I won't considerH > leaving, who is a Nashua native, and who has not (yet) decided she can leavea > family and friends.   C Many people nearing retirement do find themselves reluctant to jumpaK companies, which is what it would take for you to find work on an OS with a K promising future.  That was my point:  I'm sure you could do something else  within Compaq.   ...   J > I am perplexed why any VMS customer should be concerned about the mergerJ > other than generic FUD.  I believe that it has a lot of upside potential foreJ > VMS.  You don't like how Compaq has handled VMS, why not let HP try it'sJ > hand.  From your arguments, aside from outright cancellation - can it be anyr > worse than the current state?m  H 'A lot of upside potential' from a complete disaster (the 'can it be any= worse?' argument) doesn't necessarily make for optimism, justeK marginally-reduced pessimism.  Given the range of possibilities (merge withrJ HP and retain a lot of the management responsible for the current state ofF VMS, don't merge and continue with current management, don't merge andK current management gets replaced, don't merge and Compaq goes under and the-G pieces get bought by someone else), merging is neither the best nor theeL worst opportunity IMO for improvement for VMS (though I'm not sure whether I. think it beats the going-under option or not).   - bill   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 23:05:49 GMT.4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net>" Subject: Re: Right down the middle= Message-ID: <hHtm8.96805$uA5.83652@rwcrnsc51.ops.asp.att.net>a  @ "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> wrote in message- news:W9pm8.1324$fL6.26734@news.cpqcorp.net...r >sJ > I am perplexed why any VMS customer should be concerned about the merger > other than generic FUD.   J Perhaps because nothing positive or definitive has been said about the OS.K Based on what CPQ and HWP *have* said, NSK and the "consolidated enterpriseTA UNIX" will be keepers. No such statements re: VMS. And at the CPQeF shareholders meeting in Houston yesterday, Michael Capellas put up theL now-familiar slide depicting the product and technology synergies of HWP and2 CPQ. "Superdome" and "NSK" were highlighted in theE high-performance/fault-tolerant sector, no reference to Alpha or VMS.n  > This can easily be clarified with a statement from the New HP.  5 > I believe that it has a lot of upside potential forAJ > VMS.  You don't like how Compaq has handled VMS, why not let HP try it'sJ > hand.  From your arguments, aside from outright cancellation - can it be anye > worse than the current state?s  I Umm, not really. I look forward to seeing the New HP step up to the plateXC with some aggressive product positioning and marketing initiatives.    > K > I'm looking forward to the close of the merger, and to see what the shapel of > the new company is.    You are not alone!  
 Terry Shannon  Shannon Knew Compaq    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 15:29:08 -0800e& From: Greg Cagle <gregc@gregcagle.com>" Subject: Re: Right down the middle, Message-ID: <3C9A6CC4.3080902@gregcagle.com>   Terry C. Shannon wrote: B > "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> wrote in message > 5 >>I believe that it has a lot of upside potential foreJ >>VMS.  You don't like how Compaq has handled VMS, why not let HP try it'sK >>hand.  From your arguments, aside from outright cancellation - can it be r# > any worse than the current state?a >"K > Umm, not really. I look forward to seeing the New HP step up to the plateNE > with some aggressive product positioning and marketing initiatives.2  ? There are some who would draw parallels between VMS and MPE andn% strongly question this statement 8^).m   > Terry Shannon? > Shannon Knew Compaqy            ^^^^ LOL! -- a
 Greg Cagle gregc at gregcagle dot com   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 23:53:37 GMT * From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>" Subject: Re: Right down the middle@ Message-ID: <5oum8.26182$Gf.1939788@bin2.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>  ? "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net> wrote in messagee7 news:hHtm8.96805$uA5.83652@rwcrnsc51.ops.asp.att.net...U >4B > "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> wrote in message/ > news:W9pm8.1324$fL6.26734@news.cpqcorp.net...  > >aL > > I am perplexed why any VMS customer should be concerned about the merger > > other than generic FUD.I >hL > Perhaps because nothing positive or definitive has been said about the OS.B > Based on what CPQ and HWP *have* said, NSK and the "consolidated
 enterpriseC > UNIX" will be keepers. No such statements re: VMS. And at the CPQaH > shareholders meeting in Houston yesterday, Michael Capellas put up theJ > now-familiar slide depicting the product and technology synergies of HWP and_4 > CPQ. "Superdome" and "NSK" were highlighted in theG > high-performance/fault-tolerant sector, no reference to Alpha or VMS.m > @ > This can easily be clarified with a statement from the New HP.  & You mean something along the lines of:  I "Compaq is unequivocally committed to Alpha for the long term. ... As our=J underlying processor technology, Alpha is absolutely key to our profitableK growth and market leadership in the Business Critical Server segment.  As a G result, we are investing aggressively in multiple future generations of-G Alpha chip technology and a robust Alpha system roadmap. ... Alpha willhI become the engine for future generations of our Compaq NonStopTM HimalayauL systems. ... Our commitment to Alpha is a sound one that provides Compaq andI our customers with unique competitive advantages.  As you know, Alpha hasmH maintained its unquestioned performance leadership against all other CPUK architectures since January 1993.  We plan to maintain and extend this lead-J with a fully funded R+D program to ensure continued delivery of leadershipL products to the market. ... In EV8, we will implement a new CPU methodology,J Simultaneous Multi-Threading ... With these commitments, Compaq offers theI most powerful set of platforms and the widest range of choices to delivere the greatest value for you."  D Yeah, that would clear things right up beyond any shadow of a doubt, wouldn't it.   - bill   ------------------------------    Date: 21 Mar 2002 16:00:38 -0800" From: VMSfan@hotmail.com (VMS Fan)" Subject: Re: Right down the middle= Message-ID: <d0a53e6e.0203211600.46be490d@posting.google.com>C  p "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> wrote in message news:<W9pm8.1324$fL6.26734@news.cpqcorp.net>...J > I am perplexed why any VMS customer should be concerned about the mergerN > other than generic FUD.  I believe that it has a lot of upside potential forJ > VMS.  You don't like how Compaq has handled VMS, why not let HP try it'sN > hand.  From your arguments, aside from outright cancellation - can it be any > worse than the current state?N  ? The latter is exactly what VMS customers fear right now.  CarlyGE Fiorina has conspicuously not said one word about VMS.  As far as VMSnE customers can tell, Carly could well be planning to follow the adviceuF of the Aberdeen Group in the study HP commissioned and sent to the SECD in support of the merger, which says HP should kill the Itanium port of VMS.   F Once the HP shareholder votes are certified, and the integration plans@ are made public, HP/Compaq would be wise to loudly proclaim thatB Aberdeen's advice with respect to VMS was ill-founded, the Itanium> port will continue, and VMS will have a long and fruitful life1 (assuming that's what the integration plans are).i ---a- "Rumors of my death are greatly exacerbated."o!                            -- VMS    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 19:42:20 -0500c- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> " Subject: Re: Right down the middle, Message-ID: <3C9A7DE9.E117A9FD@videotron.ca>   Fred Kleinsorge wrote:I > Hmmm.  Don't think I'm in a dead-end job.  Don't think I'm working on aaN > dead-end product.  Don't think that any of the companies I've now worked for4 > without changing jobs was dedicated to mediocrity.  J While this may very well be true, please consider that from the customer'sL point of view, Compaq employees are expected to toe the company line, and weN would not expect to see Compaq employees puclicly criticize their employer. ItC isn't your fault, and there is really not much you can do about it.u  N Unless you are privy to Carly's 3 year product roadmap, how can you be sure of what lies ahead for VMS ?   J > I am perplexed why any VMS customer should be concerned about the merger > other than generic FUD.   L Could the fact that Carly has mentioned every Compaq product except VMS haveM anything to do about this ? Perhaps the worse case scenario would be that VMS M wouldn't even be included in the product roadmap so customers would remain in ) a state of limbo as to the future of VMS.c  N > hand.  From your arguments, aside from outright cancellation - can it be any > worse than the current state?   N The problem is that status quo  will get much worse with time, especially withC that unwanted and poorly timed forced migration to that IA64 thing.R   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 00:11:35 GMTA4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net>" Subject: Re: Right down the middle- Message-ID: <XEum8.85069$Yv2.28999@rwcrnsc54>i  3 "Greg Cagle" <gregc@gregcagle.com> wrote in message.& news:3C9A6CC4.3080902@gregcagle.com... > Terry C. Shannon wrote:eD > > "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> wrote in message > >d7 > >>I believe that it has a lot of upside potential foraL > >>VMS.  You don't like how Compaq has handled VMS, why not let HP try it'sL > >>hand.  From your arguments, aside from outright cancellation - can it be% > > any worse than the current state?t > >uG > > Umm, not really. I look forward to seeing the New HP step up to the  platerG > > with some aggressive product positioning and marketing initiatives.t >eA > There are some who would draw parallels between VMS and MPE and ' > strongly question this statement 8^).  >h  K These parallels have been drawn before. I asked this question of a CPQ execeK at an analyst briefing in London last December, and his response was "If wenK had to shoot one of them (the two OSes in question) we shot the right one."t  K No disrespect intended to the MPE/iX community, but the exec went on to say0F that VMS has a far higher run rate and customer base than does MPE/iX.  L Still, it's a Good Question demanding a, well, Better Answer than what we've heard to date!   > > Terry Shannon  > > Shannon Knew Compaqe >            ^^^^ LOL!  L Yeah, back to the drawing board for another round of "Name That Newsletter!"   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 20:14:09 -0500l- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> " Subject: Re: Right down the middle, Message-ID: <3C9A855B.A09A0F16@videotron.ca>   Bill Todd wrote:G > If you're comparing it to Compaq with no significant changes from its-I > constitution today, then I probably agree.  But since I don't see VMS'sC? > opportunities as being at all good under HP management eitherT  K We know that in 2000, Compaq realised that it could not survive without the J profit generated by VMS and decided not to kill VMS. So with a stand aloneL Compaq, it is safe to say that VMS would not be killed outright, even thoughL its path is clearly a slow/controlled  de-emphasis. But until HP reveals itsH product road-map, there is no real way to know what Carly intends to do.  I Because of the 50/50 split, Carly is going to be under a hell of a lot of K pressure to perform, as a result, she may take some very harsh decisions too1 move things very quickly. That is what scares me.e   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 01:25:55 GMT 4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net>" Subject: Re: Right down the middle= Message-ID: <DKvm8.97221$uA5.83883@rwcrnsc51.ops.asp.att.net>   : "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message& news:3C9A855B.A09A0F16@videotron.ca... > Bill Todd wrote:I > > If you're comparing it to Compaq with no significant changes from its K > > constitution today, then I probably agree.  But since I don't see VMS's A > > opportunities as being at all good under HP management eithere >.I > We know that in 2000, Compaq realised that it could not survive without  theuL > profit generated by VMS and decided not to kill VMS. So with a stand aloneG > Compaq, it is safe to say that VMS would not be killed outright, even  thoughJ > its path is clearly a slow/controlled  de-emphasis. But until HP reveals itsaJ > product road-map, there is no real way to know what Carly intends to do. >IK > Because of the 50/50 split, Carly is going to be under a hell of a lot ofAJ > pressure to perform, as a result, she may take some very harsh decisions to3 > move things very quickly. That is what scares me.   J Carly may be a lot of things but I doubt that stupid is one of 'em. If VMSJ contributes $1B in high-margin revenue, why would it get axed? The revenueJ loss, and the inevitable and irrevocable defection of former VMS customersA to a rival vendor's platform, would seem to make a VMSexecution a  non-starter.  % Note that I said "would seem" here...C   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 01:56:38 GMTF# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> " Subject: Re: Right down the middleE Message-ID: <qbwm8.9679$nO.6973@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>   ? "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net> wrote in message ' news:XEum8.85069$Yv2.28999@rwcrnsc54...  >o > > > Terry Shannon  > > > Shannon Knew Compaq  > >            ^^^^ LOL! > A > Yeah, back to the drawing board for another round of "Name That  Newsletter!" >i    K How about "Shannon Knows Something About Big Computer Companies That AlwayseK Seem To Screw Their Best Products and Customers". Maybe a newsletter with auI title like that will encourage the executives of a certain company to try  their best not to F! up.   ------------------------------    Date: 21 Mar 2002 21:06:42 -0600+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young)I" Subject: Re: Right down the middle3 Message-ID: <zn8AWJe7jITq@eisner.encompasserve.org>A  U In article <3C9A6CC4.3080902@gregcagle.com>, Greg Cagle <gregc@gregcagle.com> writes:a > Terry C. Shannon wrote: C >> "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> wrote in messages >>6 >>>I believe that it has a lot of upside potential forK >>>VMS.  You don't like how Compaq has handled VMS, why not let HP try it's:L >>>hand.  From your arguments, aside from outright cancellation - can it be $ >> any worse than the current state? >>L >> Umm, not really. I look forward to seeing the New HP step up to the plateF >> with some aggressive product positioning and marketing initiatives. > A > There are some who would draw parallels between VMS and MPE ando' > strongly question this statement 8^).  >   7 	Old news... here, I'll help you.. but if you want moreo 	go here:  www.deja.comp  q http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=cf15391e.0202200830.1808946%40posting.google.com&oe=ISO-8859-1&output=gplainl  6 young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) wrote in message/ news:<uLXVUgAH2guH@eisner.encompasserve.org>...w, > 	Was there ever any reasonable or ballpark? > 	numbers attached to MPE profitability and/or installed base? = > 	(I recall installed base numbers, but never anything about > > 	profits).  The reason I ask, is ... are they getting rid ofC > 	a $800 million dollar profit center?  $600 million?  $3 million?u  < It appears from the quote that HP had a strict policy of notF commenting on the profitability of various pieces of the company (manyA companies do that for competitive-intelligence reasons), and evenoD sticks to that policy after the cancellation, still refusing to this7 day to say if the HP3000 was producing a profit or not.i  B While Compaq admittedly hasn't volunteered very much detail on VMSD business in the quarterly financial results, for example, they don'tF blindly follow a "no-info" policy like HP seems to have.  I think theyE have been quite forthcoming when the right questions are asked of thedB right people in an appropriate venue.  At DECUS/CETS meetings, forE example, we have received guidance at various times over the last feweC years, with numbers like "$4 billion VMS revenues with $800 milliond@ profits", "single-digit growth for the year", "$2 billion in VMSE service revenues", and so forth.  So we're not being kept in the dark % like the HP3000 crowd apparently was.i  D Given that the VMS installed base (411,000) is about 10 times as bigC as the HP3000 base (about 40,000), I'd expect probably 10 times thebE revenues and profits.  That's an order of magnitude difference, whichi/ probably makes VMS an order of magnitude safer. ? ---------------------------------------------------------------i? Keith Parris | parris at encompasserve dot org | Consulting on:o> Clusters, Disaster Tolerance, Performance, I/O, Storage & SANs   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 22:41:06 -0500y- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>l" Subject: Re: Right down the middle, Message-ID: <3C9AA7C2.DAEBC4CD@videotron.ca>   "Terry C. Shannon" wrote:eL > Carly may be a lot of things but I doubt that stupid is one of 'em. If VMSL > contributes $1B in high-margin revenue, why would it get axed? The revenueL > loss, and the inevitable and irrevocable defection of former VMS customersC > to a rival vendor's platform, would seem to make a VMSexecution ae > non-starter.  K While it is true that in the past, VMS customers left Digital and Compaq to0I rivals, I am not sure that this would necessarily be the case if Carly isj( willing to take certain drastic actions.  K In the past, Compaq would have had to take a short term loss for cancellingnK VMS in order to give customers enticing deals to stay with Compaq, and thatoJ would have looked pretty bad. But now, Carly has already announced face toN face meetings with customers to discuss the roadmap, as well as announced thatM the merger would cost a few billions in restructuring costs etc etc. It would,E be very easy to bury the customer "incentives" into the merger costs.s  L Furthermore, in the past, there were lots of VMS customers, so it would haveL been difficult to herd them all. But June 25 has shown that Compaq knows whoN the profitable VMS customers are and went to visit them individually. *IF* theD VMS profits are generated by a relatively small number of very largeK customers, it becomes much easier to herd those customers and steer them toiI stay with HP, especially if those customers already have lots of HP gear.C  D While there may not be a "reason" to kill VMS per say, Carly may seeM advantages in taking the remaining VMS installed base and move them to eithereM Tandem or HP-UX to shore those products up. Tandem would greatly benefit fromhJ a boost and diversification in installed user base, and HP-UX will benefitK from the addition of Tru64 customers as well as a portion of VMS customers.h   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 22:45:32 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>-" Subject: Re: Right down the middle, Message-ID: <3C9AA8CD.8A5C088D@videotron.ca>   John Smith wrote::M > How about "Shannon Knows Something About Big Computer Companies That Always.3 > Seem To Screw Their Best Products and Customers".r   or:c  % "Shannon knows how to spot a loser !"h   or  B "The curse of Shannon: the companies he follows go down the drain"   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 06:26:10 GMTs* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>" Subject: Re: Right down the middleA Message-ID: <68Am8.104121$1g.8351559@bin3.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>   : "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message& news:3C9A7DE9.E117A9FD@videotron.ca...   ...o  H > Unless you are privy to Carly's 3 year product roadmap, how can you be sure ofm > what lies ahead for VMS ?o >nL > > I am perplexed why any VMS customer should be concerned about the merger > > other than generic FUD.- >-I > Could the fact that Carly has mentioned every Compaq product except VMSc have > anything to do about this ?   I Why do people keep bleating about not having any reassurances about VMS'sTK future or product roadmaps to scrutinize, when the real problem is that the8F people they're seeking to get such details from are slime who can't be% trusted, no matter what they may say?a  F That's why I posted those excerpts from the Heil/Lipcon 'commitment toK Alpha' letter as a reminder.  That letter was written on Curly's watch, notnK in some prior administration.  It was written by two of his senior VPs, not I by some no-name marketing or sales yo-yos.  It was written well under twooI years before Alpha got the axe (and it now seems at a time when Curly was.G already considering dramatically different options).  And it was postedpL prominently on Compaq's Web site as a demonstration of Compaq's *continuing*C 'unequivocal commitment' to the platform, and used as such in salesnL presentations by people up to the VP level, until *after* Alpha got the axe.  I And when the axe fell, there were no prior negotiations with customers to J try to negotiate acceptable ways to alter those commitments.  Not even anyH apology.  Just lies to try to justify the decision and placate those who might feel betrayed by it.  I It was no exaggeration when I said that in the Old West people might welleL have been shot for this kind of behavior (or hung from a tree at the edge ofK town as an object lesson for anyone tempted to duplicate it).  And the factlE that today they instead get bonuses and new positions of authority ismG utterly disgusting.  I don't know the precise details about how MPE got L scuttled, but they sound similar enough that one shouldn't look to Carly forJ better treatment - especially given the talk about how she and Curly shareJ so many of the same views and the fact that Curly will be the President of the merged entity.  C The only way to get rid of this problem is to get rid of the peoplecL responsible for it.  One possibility was to see the merger defeated and hopeH for a change for the better.  Another is to move to a less slimy vendor.K Otherwise, just bend over, spread your cheeks, and prepare to take whateverr/ comes along:  asking for reassurances is silly.t   - bill   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 22:58:21 GMT-4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net>- Subject: Re: Shannon knows DEC -> CPQ -> ????R= Message-ID: <hAtm8.96788$uA5.83631@rwcrnsc51.ops.asp.att.net>4  G "Simon Clubley" <clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP> wrote in 5 message news:2nZVaifpLEPr@eisner.encompasserve.org...pA > So, anyone want to guess what Terry calls his publication now ?  >uJ > My suggestion: Shannon knows DEC, where DEC = Digital Enhanced ComputingI > (a variant on the DEC = Digital Enhanced Compaq suggested when CPQ tookt > over DEC)t > G > Seriously, now that the merger looks like it's going to happen, wheree > do you go from here Terry ?s  H Ah, that's the question of the hour for me. ;} I did call the newsletterG Shannon Knows D.E.C. (as in Distributed Enterprise Computing) for a fewuK months after the Compaq-tion, t'was Compaq that suggested I change the nameA
 to Compaq.   >tK > BTW, assuming the initial HP vote count is confirmed to be in favour of a E > merger, does anybody else think that Carly is not going to wait fore recountsJ > and legal challenges to finish, but is likely to try and force the issue byL > presenting the post merger plans, and generally presenting the merger as a
 > done deal ?   L The reorganization and "rightsizing" can't begin until the vote is certified" by the election inspectors at IVS.   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 23:11:17 GMT # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>-- Subject: Re: Shannon knows DEC -> CPQ -> ????0E Message-ID: <pMtm8.8264$nO.3167@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>t  ? "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net> wrote in messager7 news:hAtm8.96788$uA5.83631@rwcrnsc51.ops.asp.att.net...e >j > D > The reorganization and "rightsizing" can't begin until the vote is	 certifiedc$ > by the election inspectors at IVS. >hL After the closeness of the vote and the mudslinging, maybe the HP board willH 'rightsize' Carly too. How much credibility can she have after somethingF like this, and with all the hostility engendered within the workforce?  I I'll bet that a lot of HP folks will gladly take a package given what theh& majority of them seem to think of her.   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 23:19:58 GMTo4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net>- Subject: Re: Shannon knows DEC -> CPQ -> ???? = Message-ID: <yUtm8.96850$uA5.83471@rwcrnsc51.ops.asp.att.net>t  . "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> wrote in message? news:pMtm8.8264$nO.3167@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com...e >iA > "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net> wrote in messagem9 > news:hAtm8.96788$uA5.83631@rwcrnsc51.ops.asp.att.net...e > >r > >VF > > The reorganization and "rightsizing" can't begin until the vote is > certifiedy& > > by the election inspectors at IVS. > >bI > After the closeness of the vote and the mudslinging, maybe the HP boardt willJ > 'rightsize' Carly too. How much credibility can she have after somethingH > like this, and with all the hostility engendered within the workforce? >nK > I'll bet that a lot of HP folks will gladly take a package given what the-( > majority of them seem to think of her.  I From what I've heard, this wouldn't surprise me. Since I've never met therJ lady nor heard anything other than what's been in the trade press, I can't comment one way or the other.s   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 23:07:00 GMT># From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>a- Subject: Re: Shannon knows DEC -> CPQ -> ????FE Message-ID: <oItm8.8220$nO.5356@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>n  @ "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> wrote in message- news:eepm8.1325$fL6.26745@news.cpqcorp.net...l >r > 6 > You are reading tea leaves that simply aren't there.   Fred,vG So why has there been a distinct silence thus far (since the merger wasnL announced) in statements by Carly/Curly et al. about the fate of VMS, unlikeA definitive announcements pertaining to the death of Tru64 and ther continuation of NSK?  G Please tell us that you know what Carly is thinking and committed to inSK terms of growing VMS. Or failing the merger, what Curly plans to do in this/ regard.i   TIA    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 19:06:36 -0500a- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>t- Subject: Re: Shannon knows DEC -> CPQ -> ????w, Message-ID: <3C9A758B.8CB4FA20@videotron.ca>   Paul Winalski wrote:F > be painstakingly compared against each other and against the list ofD > stockholders, which is why certification is expected to take a few > weeks.  J How many actual votes are there ? Does each vote have some number/key thatH easily indentifies the shareholder so that they just need to key in thatL number and "YES/NO" and a computer then automatically validates the vote and& how many shares this shareholder has ?   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 20:21:15 -0500s- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> - Subject: Re: Shannon knows DEC -> CPQ -> ???? , Message-ID: <3C9A8705.E7BF9B2A@videotron.ca>   "Terry C. Shannon" wrote:kN > The reorganization and "rightsizing" can't begin until the vote is certified$ > by the election inspectors at IVS.  M Will it get certified by IVS, and then get challenged by Hewlett, or will thedO certification happen only once all the debate/haggling/recounts are done with ?/   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 01:19:52 GMTf4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net>- Subject: Re: Shannon knows DEC -> CPQ -> ????s= Message-ID: <YEvm8.97201$uA5.83913@rwcrnsc51.ops.asp.att.net>a  : "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message& news:3C9A8705.E7BF9B2A@videotron.ca... > "Terry C. Shannon" wrote:9F > > The reorganization and "rightsizing" can't begin until the vote is	 certified.& > > by the election inspectors at IVS. >6K > Will it get certified by IVS, and then get challenged by Hewlett, or willt thesJ > certification happen only once all the debate/haggling/recounts are done with ?  B To the best of my knowledge (such as it is) the challenges precede certification.   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 02:00:12 GMTv" From: bugs@pu.net (Mark Hittinger)- Subject: Re: Shannon knows DEC -> CPQ -> ????sC Message-ID: <Mewm8.190902$uv5.16444189@bin6.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>o   Shannon knows Unisys(4) :-)a   Latera   Mark Hittinger bugs@pu.nets   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 03:15:52 GMTt4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net>- Subject: Re: Shannon knows DEC -> CPQ -> ???? - Message-ID: <Ilxm8.87452$af7.52899@rwcrnsc53>t  / "Mark Hittinger" <bugs@pu.net> wrote in messagee= news:Mewm8.190902$uv5.16444189@bin6.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com...a > Shannon knows Unisys(4) :-)  >p  L Well, I did know one half of the so-called "Power of Two." I used to programJ Burroughs L-Series minicomputers in SL/3 and SL/5 assembler, and had a bit1 of experience with big Burroughs systems as well.    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 01:09:10 GMTo2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)/ Subject: Re: sleep() in Older versions of DEC CJ3 Message-ID: <Wuvm8.1343$fL6.26890@news.cpqcorp.net>   ] In article <a6svec$gn2of$1@ID-136223.news.dfncis.de>, "Dave Rich" <drich@nucorar.com> writes:hF :Apparently, the version of DEC C I am using does not have the SLEEP()
 :function.     Prior to V6.1?  C   Which C version?  Which OpenVMS version?  Which OpenVMS platform? A   What command?  Do you have a reproducer?  (Details on the sortsaD   of trivia that can be useful when posting -- and when answering --.   a question can be found in the OpenVMS FAQ.)  F   Depending on how you build a C application -- again, please see the G   FAQ -- you might well not get the symbol prefix, thus the sleep call eI   might not resolve.  Without details, I can't tell if you have a release0D   prior to V6.1 -- which is when sleep was introduced -- or if there"   is something else going on here.  :   The C RTL ships with OpenVMS, not with the C compiler.    I   You could consider an upgrade to OpenVMS to get a newer RTL of course,  F   and you can also sometimes find the ECOs containing CRTL updates canE   also backport various newer features.  Most any ECO that backportedl'   most anything would have sleep in it.h  I :Is there a known work around for this, or some other method of causing ae3 :process to 'sleep' for a specified amount of time?e  @   The backport library available with most any recent C compiler>   (V5.6 and later, IIRC) has this.  This is often the easiest.  F   lib$wait (F-floating argument!), the sys$hiber/sys$schdwk pair, and 8   various other operating system calls can be used, too.    N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------N       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.com    N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------    Date: 21 Mar 2002 11:35:50 -08001 From: glenmark@utxvms.cc.utexas.edu (Glen Martin)t4 Subject: Re: Strange status returned by sys$create()= Message-ID: <6e2f14f4.0203211135.407306a2@posting.google.com>a  F Many thanks to everyone who has kindly pointed out that I was defining= status as a short int. Figured I had made a braindead mistaketE somewhere in there. Now I'm getting meaningfull error messages and amf? heading in the right direction. Thanks also to everyone who haseB pointed out where I need to be using bitmask arguements instead ofD vector arguements. (It doesn't seem clear from the docs, or from the? sample code in sys$examples, which needs to be used and in whath	 context.)V  D As for ADA, well, I never learned it, and all of this is being addedB into a program already written in C (as much as I despise C)... ;)   Glen   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 16:44:28 -0800 # From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com>E3 Subject: SUMMARY: PC monitor attached to RGB outputd9 Message-ID: <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIOEFKEGAA.tom@kednos.com>r  D I thought I would provide this in case somebody else needs the info.  H I have a number of systems (DECstation 5000, DEC 3000s, VAX 4000/60,90 )	 that haveeL as monitor output a triplex SMB (IIRC the designation, miniature coax in any event)K so the monitor cable for these guys all had such a connector at one end andbK 3 BNC connectors for RGBat the other.  SVGA monitors have as we all know, a  DB15 connector.tI Commercially available cables to adapt have the DB15 connector but at the- other-K 5 BNC (3 for RGB and 2 for BW), so the purpose of these cables is to use an  older stylerL (RGB input) monitor with a box with SVGA output.  by splicing the two cables togetherF using F-F BNC coupling connectors (I paid $3.59 @) you get the desired cable.  The connectors were Pacific BNC-3314-75P.   > -----Original Message-----1 > From: Nic Clews [mailto:sendspamhere@127.0.0.1]c) > Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2002 6:40 AMa > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comu0 > Subject: Re: PC monitor attached to RGB output >1 >n > Tom Linden wrote:  > >o= > > I wasn't planning on buying another monitor, just a cabler >cH > That may be, but if whatever you're planning to replace the VRT19 withG > hasn't got this feature, it won't work, I wanted to try to avoid youraI > frustration. You can get boxes that generate this sync signal, but theys# > cost almost as much as a monitor.e >sI > Another issue you may run into is that power saving monitors often needm > H and/or V to 'switch on'. >t+ > > > Do go for a "synch on green' monitor.i >c > --* > Regards, Nic Clews CSC Computer Sciences > nclews at csc dot comr >y >d   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 02:51:20 GMTe2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)7 Subject: Re: SUMMARY: PC monitor attached to RGB outputo3 Message-ID: <I_wm8.1358$fL6.26782@news.cpqcorp.net>o  _ In article <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIOEFKEGAA.tom@kednos.com>, "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> writes:eE :I thought I would provide this in case somebody else needs the info.s :nI :I have a number of systems (DECstation 5000, DEC 3000s, VAX 4000/60,90 )tL :that have as monitor output a triplex SMB (IIRC the designation, miniature  :coax in any event)   3   The connection varies by the graphics controller.   C   Please see the FAQ.  The cable is just part of this -- search for D   the discussion of matching video resolutions and of synch-on-green   for some details...e    N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------N       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.com    N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 11:59:29 -0800 ' From: JMK <jeffrey.m.klopotic@lmco.com> + Subject: Re: System software status utilityD( Message-ID: <3C9A3BA0.98C48DF4@lmco.com>   Fabio,? Thanks for the response.  I'll check those recommendations out.p   Where is .br ?   Jeff   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 12:00:32 -0800w' From: JMK <jeffrey.m.klopotic@lmco.com>o+ Subject: Re: System software status utilityh( Message-ID: <3C9A3BE0.AFDEF3CA@lmco.com>   Steve,? Thanks for the response.  Robomon is news to me.  Thanks again.c   Jeff   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 12:02:11 -0800b' From: JMK <jeffrey.m.klopotic@lmco.com>"+ Subject: Re: System software status utilitya( Message-ID: <3C9A3C43.AAB7EB11@lmco.com>   William,B Thanks for the response.  I might wind up writing the routines andD putting them into an already exising app we have which does hardwareA monitoring.  Had to check and see what was out there commerically " though.  Good to do due diligence.   Jeff   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 21:19:08 +0100 9 From: Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com>a+ Subject: Re: System software status utility ' Message-ID: <3C9A403C.A93853D2@aaa.com>r  ! Very very close to Copacabana :-)'  1 Jan-Erik (living far far away from Copacabana...)'    
 JMK wrote: >  > Where is .br ? >  > Jeff   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 16:50:24 -0800'9 From: "ynotssor" <ynotssorAT hotmail dot `\rm -rf /` com>w+ Subject: Re: System software status utility 1 Message-ID: <3c9a8075_2@corp-news.newsgroups.com>   ; "JMK" <jeffrey.m.klopotic@lmco.nospam.com> wrote in messagew) news:3C97BEA8.FA81075F@lmco.nospam.com...n >sH > Does anyone know of an existing utility that can tell me if a computerI > on the network has all its software up and running?  Hardware utilitiessJ > abound to determine if computers are up, disks, routers, etc are online,5 > but I'm not aware of any like product for software.t    ( Big Brother System and Network Monitor ?   http://bb4.com/a                    tonyi   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 00:26:02 GMTl6 From: "Andy Bustamante" <a_c_bustamante@earthlink.net>$ Subject: Re: Talk about downtime....C Message-ID: <uSum8.2320$oi.107889@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net>n  J I have a customer using DECmove for a 4100 and 1000 next month.  They wereL going to rent a truck and dolly until I sat down and told them about the guyE who ran a red light and clipped the truck deliverying an Alpha to us.nI Bounced the Alpha cabinet around, scrambled disks.  It's like buying lifeIJ insurance, until death arrives it's a needless expense.  After the autopsy it's nice to have.     -- Andy Bustamanter Remove the ASCII 95s to replyc      > "Keith Parris" <keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com> wrote in message7 news:cf15391e.0203191741.6e801a21@posting.google.com... A > Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message , news:<3C962F97.DD3979EC@blueyonder.co.uk>... > > Robert Deininger wrote:  > > >  DECmove help in all7 > > > these areas, but I never heard that it was cheap.s > >v> > > yup, in my limited experience it definitely was NOT cheap. >t@ > I know of one move where DECmove service was suggested but wasC > rejected as too costly.  As best we could determine afterward, it2F > appears the movers must have dropped one of the 8400 system boxes atE > some point.  A backplane ended up twisted and had to be replaced touE > get the box working at the new site, at a cost of more for that one_, > single part than the entire DECmove quote.0 > ----------------------------------------------0 > Keith Parris | parris at encompasserve dot org >l   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 10:04:01 +1030 / From: Mark Daniel <Mark.Daniel@wasd.vsm.com.au>iM Subject: Re: TCPIP, sharing sockets via $QIO (programming, long and detailed)w. Message-ID: <3C9A6DE9.1040502@wasd.vsm.com.au>   (Probably) final comment ...  # It looks like a TCP/IP stack issue.t  H (I don't think I'm telling tales out of school here.  The source of the K the following quotes has previously posted in this thread, John Gemignani.)a  E "I got a dump from one of the folks in our group who is working with mC Rick Barry (apache, vms).  We see the hang situation and have been eG looking through the code.  Initially it appears that there is a bug in nH the VMS accept code when multiple PIDs share a listener.  The bit which 5 controls notifications appears to have been dropped."a   And a second email.e  F "We found what we believe is the problem with accept.  The correction H was worked up tonight and we will be testing it over the next few days. I   Since V5.3 is near SSB, the fix will appear in ECOs for V5.3 and V5.1, h and be in V5.4 mainline."   G John may well add to this heads-up when he gets his anti-SPAM measures 3 back into place.   Thanks to all who contributed.   Mark Daniel wrote:: > Compaq TCP/IP Services for OpenVMS Alpha Version V5.1-15. > on a DEC 3000 Model 300 running OpenVMS V7.3 > C > I have an application where I would like two (and more) detached eJ > processes to share a socket, in particular both to listen and accept on G > that socket and share the incoming connections.  Note: this is *not* w; > parent-child, it's peer.  Both processes are independent.d > H > The TCP/IP socket sharing bit is not particularly well documented and G > more implies that it can be done rather than stating it.  Anyway, by mJ > experiment I established that it was possible and the incoming requests J > are shared in a round-robin fashion.  Works fine - except under extreme G > load, when eventually the backlog queue length grows and connections uE > stop being accepted (established using a TCPIP> SHOW DEVICE bgnnnn r > /CONTINUOUS).e > I > Now of course this could be a programming logic issue but I've reduced  E > it to the barest minimum (no *real* processing, just accepting the 7I > connection, quick response and finished).  It could be a process quota iB > limitation but no error status is reported by any of the system D > services, and process monitoring, SDA and AMDS all atest that the J > *processes* are not resource starved.  It could be the TCP/IP "kernel", G > but I've checked the characteristics covered in the "Troubleshooting w > Guide" and it looks OK.d > K > I guess for starters I need a definitive answer on whether the BG driver eJ > is designed for such behaviour (we have CSC support) and advice on what  > else I can do to tackle this.u > I > The C code is non-trivial so fully posting it here (or to CSC for that  A > matter) is not really an option.  I hope this precis is enough.  >  > , > On the first of the multiple processes ..., > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > , > 1) $ASSIGN() a channel to the INET device. > > >    /* no pre-existing socket device available, assign one */@ >    status = sys$assign (&InetDeviceDsc, &ServerChannel, 0, 0); > % > 2) $QIO the socket characteristics.s > = >    /* make the channel a TCP, connection-oriented socket */a< >    status = sys$qiow (EfnWait, ServerChannel, IO$_SETMODE,F >                       &svptr->ServerIOsb, 0, 0, &TcpSocket, 0, 0, 0,9 >                       &ServerSocketReuseAddrOption, 0);c; >    if (VMSok (status)) status = svptr->ServerIOsb.Status;n > - > 3) Bind the socket to the address and port.  > G >    /* prepare to bind the server socket to the IP address and port */,J >    svptr->ServerSocketNameItem.Length = sizeof(svptr->ServerSocketName);D >    svptr->ServerSocketNameItem.Address = &svptr->ServerSocketName;2 >    svptr->ServerSocketName.sin_family = AF_INET;9 >    svptr->ServerSocketName.sin_addr.s_addr = IpAddress;d6 >    svptr->ServerSocketName.sin_port = htons(IpPort);< >    status = sys$qiow (EfnWait, ServerChannel, IO$_SETMODE,1 >                       &svptr->ServerIOsb, 0, 0,e; >                       0, 0, &svptr->ServerSocketNameItem,c4 >                       svptr->ListenBacklog, 0, 0);; >    if (VMSok (status)) status = svptr->ServerIOsb.Status;a > H > 4) I then get the socket BG device name using $GETDVIW.  This is also ' > stored for access by other processes.- > K > 5) $ASSIGN another (autonomous) channel to the BG device returned above. <9 >  This becomes just another channel to the above socket.D > A > 6) Important step, make this channel shareable (TCPIP$C_SHARE).r > F >    /* make the socket shareable (seems to work only if done here) */C >    status = sys$qiow (EfnWait, svptr->ServerChannel, IO$_SETMODE,i1 >                       &svptr->ServerIOsb, 0, 0, A >                       0, 0, 0, 0, &ServerSocketShareOption, 0);b; >    if (VMSok (status)) status = svptr->ServerIOsb.Status;- > ? > 7) Then $DASSGN the original channel.  The BG device remains h* > instantiated by the second one assigned. >  >  > In subsequent processes ...  > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~9 > ( > 1) Retrieve the stored BG device name. > J > 2) $ASSIGN a channel to the BG device returned above.  This becomes yet & > another channel to the above socket. > 1 > 3) Make this channel shareable (TCPIP$C_SHARE).l > F >    /* make the socket shareable (seems to work only if done here) */C >    status = sys$qiow (EfnWait, svptr->ServerChannel, IO$_SETMODE,t1 >                       &svptr->ServerIOsb, 0, 0,bA >                       0, 0, 0, 0, &ServerSocketShareOption, 0);g; >    if (VMSok (status)) status = svptr->ServerIOsb.Status;- >  > 3 > In all processes (after socket instantiation) ...13 > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~R > H > 1) $ASSIGN a channel to the INET device.  This will become the client 	 > socket.s > ; >    /* assign a channel to the internet template device */kG >    status = sys$assign (&InetDeviceDsc, &svptr->ClientChannel, 0, 0);2 > 8 > 2) Queue an accept() I/O to the then listening socket. > J >    svptr->ClientSocketNameItem.Length = sizeof(svptr->ClientSocketName);D >    svptr->ClientSocketNameItem.Address = &svptr->ClientSocketName;, >    svptr->ClientSocketNameItem.LengthPtr =( >        &svptr->ClientSocketNameLength; > 7 >    status = sys$qio (EfnNoWait, svptr->ServerChannel,e0 >                      IO$_ACCESS | IO$M_ACCEPT,@ >                      &svptr->ServerIOsb, &NetAcceptAst, svptr,: >                      0, 0, &svptr->ClientSocketNameItem,- >                      &svptr->ClientChannel, / >                      &ClientSocketOption, 0);d > K > 3) Then accept AST function creates a data structure and uses the client gG > channel and socket name to begin autonomously, AST-driven processing f > (i.e. does not block). > I > 4) Once the client data is retrieved and initiated go straight back to   > step 1 in this block.t >  > J > NOTE that after the socket is set up and begins processing ALL activity 4 > will be happening at user-mode AST delivery level. > J > To emphasize again.  All this works mighty well until lots of multiple, I > indeterminate connections occur, sometime after that the backlog queue SK > builds up and processing stops.  I know, I know, it sounds horribly like hI > the code fails to queue another listen (accept) on the channel but I'm eC > 99.9% sure that's not the case.  Why?  Well if I STOP one of the eH > processes (and get the right one) everything springs into life again. J > It's as if the AST was not being delivered (and there's plenty of ASTLM F > left).  Also I've reduced the AST routine processing down to almost ' > nothing and the problem still recurs.  > E > I've checked for relevant TCP/IP ECOs but there doesn't seem to be r > anything recent. > " > As always, thanks for your time. > H > +--------------------------------------------------------------------+F >  Mark Daniel                         http://wasd.vsm.com.au/adelaideG >  mailto:Mark.Daniel@wasd.vsm.com.au (Mark.Daniel@dsto.defence.gov.au)cH > +--------------------------------------------------------------------+ >    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 20:15:35 +0100 - From: Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@free.fr>s8 Subject: Re: Unable to receive Internet mail on VMS node' Message-ID: <3C9A3156.F120C3B0@free.fr>    re Charlie and Tim  Q As you are old timmers :-) both of you, I am sure that you have a batch job doing   > sysman> startup set output = file and verify = partial (ftomh)1 $ search sys$system:startup.log "-w-","-e-","-f-"c   right???   :-)-   Isn't it a better solution?M D.   Charlie Hammond wrote: > ) > In article <3C9A1ABB.617F4C93@free.fr>,u1 > Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@free.fr> writes: K > >... ALL DCL command procedures executed by the system should start with:  > >e
 > >$ set nooni > B > Generally speaking, gneralizations are generally wrong.  <smile> > 1 > More to the point, one DISagrees with this one.' > L > In the absence of specific error handling routines, I would prefer to have3 > a command procedure abort if it encouners errors.d > H > But I also acknowledge that there are cases when continuing "no matter! > what" is appropriate behaviour.    Tim Llewellyn wrote:  P >Sure, but I prefer defensive programming in systartup_vms.com, sylogin.com etc C >(check for external comfile existence before attempting to executetN >and issue an error message or take recovery action if F$SEARCH(comfile) .EQS. "") N >rather than  SET NOON, which I have found dangerous and/or confusing in some  >situations.   Again, PPO.c   Regards,   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 19:55:13 GMTh4 From: Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@blueyonder.co.uk>8 Subject: Re: Unable to receive Internet mail on VMS node0 Message-ID: <3C9A3958.5511B49B@blueyonder.co.uk>   Didier Morandi wrote:I >  > re Charlie and Tim > S > As you are old timmers :-) both of you, I am sure that you have a batch job doing   . well, I'm 40 in May, must be getting there :-)   > @ > sysman> startup set output = file and verify = partial (ftomh)3 > $ search sys$system:startup.log "-w-","-e-","-f-"t > 
 > right??? >  > :-)f   :-)    > Isn't it a better solution?h  @ I'll admit it does save the extra typing and debugging involved @ in my approach. However, your approach assumes that VMS comes upB enough to be able to login and check the startup log. Fair enough,B if you have local access to the machine then you can minimal boot,? but if the machines are remote and the operators VMS illiterate F then having user friendly (not just SYS-F-...) error messages printed F on the console can help with remote debugging. Of course, I have more G than once talked a finance clerk through minimal booting a VMS box :-) aN (best to have a scratch box at hand your end though while you are doing this).   Matter of taste, I guess.,   Regardso     > D. >   r   -- o tim.llewellyn@blueyonder.co.uk g  F * tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.uk address will cease to work June 2002 *   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 23:08:24 GMT 4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net>. Subject: Re: VAX/VMS emulator or free version?= Message-ID: <IJtm8.96814$uA5.83534@rwcrnsc51.ops.asp.att.net>a  2 "mykrowyre" <mykrowyre@yahoo.com> wrote in message& news:zhom8.1$je5.547@nnrp1.uunet.ca...= > Is there a free opensource version or emulator for VAX/VMS?: >: > -tom  K A freeware or hobbyist version of the Charon-VAX or PicoVAX emulator can beqG had from the folks at Software Resources International. More info is atT www.charon-vax.com.s  
 Terry ShannonI Shannon Knew Compaqi   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 00:52:44 -0000t From: sword7@speakeasy.org. Subject: Re: VAX/VMS emulator or free version?/ Message-ID: <u9l02smcdof8d7@corp.supernews.com>r  > Malcolm MacArthur <malcolmix@neverness.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:L > A guy called Tim Stark has been working on a PDP-10 and VAX emulator. Last > post I saw from him here, O > he had just about got it to boot VMS. But it is still a work-in-progress. See-' > http://sourceforge.net/projects/ts10..  A Yeah.  That is me.  Latest updates are available to my ftp site -e@ ftp://ftp.firesword7.net/pub/ts10/develop and get latest one.  IB still am working on it with DELQA emulation.  Now I am able telnetH and ftp into my TS10 emulator through DELQA emulation but DELQA has someE problems with interrupt issue or lag time.  Also, I was able downloadrK a 1.4 MB file from TS10 emulator at 250 to 500 kbps depending on processor t$ speed.  That is much like DSL speed.  D Also, there is another VAX emulator called Bob's simh emulator.  For5 more information, check http://simh.trailing-edge.com-   -- Tim Stark   -- a, Timothy Stark	<><	Inet: sword7@speakeasy.orgJ --------------------------------------------------------------------------F "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that H whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.. Amen." -- John 3:16 (King James Version Bible)   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 02:34:09 GMT 2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman). Subject: Re: VAX/VMS emulator or free version?3 Message-ID: <BKwm8.1355$fL6.26843@news.cpqcorp.net>n  V In article <zhom8.1$je5.547@nnrp1.uunet.ca>, "mykrowyre" <mykrowyre@yahoo.com> writes:< :Is there a free opensource version or emulator for VAX/VMS?  G   There is a free vms project running with some very early code out -- aE   but based on the last messages I've seen -- it's not really booted.a  I   There are (free) hobbyist and educational licensing programs available.3  A   There are commercial VAX emulators available for WinTel and forkH   OpenVMS Alpha, and at least two (probably free) VAX emulator projects    are running.  H   Details on the hobbyist and educational programs -- and a link to the F   Free VMS URL -- are in the OpenVMS Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ) B   document.  The OpenVMS FAQ is available at the URL listed below.    N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------N       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.com    N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 06:19:55 GMTd) From: unclefreddy <unclefreddy@jerky.com>a. Subject: Re: VAX/VMS emulator or free version?< Message-ID: <pan.2002.03.22.01.19.54.453519.27536@jerky.com>  7 On Thu, 21 Mar 2002 21:34:09 -0500, Hoff Hoffman wrote:c  : > In article <zhom8.1$je5.547@nnrp1.uunet.ca>, "mykrowyre"F > <mykrowyre@yahoo.com> writes: :Is there a free opensource version or > emulator for VAX/VMS?n > H >   There is a free vms project running with some very early code out --G >   but based on the last messages I've seen -- it's not really booted.   I oh it can boot ... as linux since that seems to be all they have released ' is a linux src tree and some .ps files.g   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 02:05:58 GMTe2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)3 Subject: Re: VAXCluster + DSSI *** Help needed ****i3 Message-ID: <akwm8.1351$fL6.26984@news.cpqcorp.net>e  k In article <3C97B64F.1020306@dskwld.zko.dec.compaq>, John Malmberg <Malmberg@dskwld.zko.dec.compaq> writes:i< :It has been a while for me, but most of the information hasA :been posted on this forum before and if it is not in the OpenVMSr> :FAQ, then a search in GOOGLE should turn the commands needed.  B   The DSSI commands necessary here are included in the OpenVMS FAQC   (MGMT26. How do I rename a DSSI disk (or tape?)), as well as the o@   related information on configuring allocation classes, votes, D   expected_votes, and such.  (MGMT10. What is the correct value for #   EXPECTED_VOTES in a VMScluster?).   N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------N       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.com    N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------    Date: 21 Mar 2002 17:11:01 -0800+ From: wendzinski@yahoo.com (tom wendzinski) 6 Subject: VMS Software Developer Available / Contractor= Message-ID: <6360c2a9.0203211711.1c63703c@posting.google.com>a  > I am available for long or short term VMS software developmentE contracts.  Prefer to work in Michigan or remotely with some travel. sA Fifteen years experience.  Request resume at wendzinski@yahoo.comn   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 12:40:44 -0800g# From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com>h Subject: Where is Freeware 5.0?e9 Message-ID: <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIIEFDEGAA.tom@kednos.com>i  < How is it distributed may be a better question.  Received SW> Products Lib from CSA this week and expected to find it there.4 Not.  I am looking for the CD not the download site.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 17:05:30 -0500x0 From: "warren sander" <warren.sander@compaq.com># Subject: Re: Where is Freeware 5.0?h3 Message-ID: <KOsm8.1340$fL6.26822@news.cpqcorp.net>t  G The freeware cd comes with the OS distribution not the layered productsn distributions.  L It's online several places and at http://www.openvms.compaq.com/freeware youJ can also ftp to www.openvms.compaq.com and download stuff. For some reason: TCPIP, Apache and Netscape/IE don't like to do ftp:// etc.     --B ------------------------------------------------------------------6 Warren Sander                        OpenVMS MarketingK Compaq Computer Corporation          Work:  warren.sander@remove.compaq.comdL 200 Forest Street MR01-3/J1          Personal: sander@remove.ma.ultranet.com3 Marlboro, MA 01752                   (508) 467-4875i5    My opinions are my own and I only speak for myselft,          Read http://www.openvms.compaq.com/B ------------------------------------------------------------------      . "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> wrote in message3 news:CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIIEFDEGAA.tom@kednos.com...i> > How is it distributed may be a better question.  Received SW@ > Products Lib from CSA this week and expected to find it there.6 > Not.  I am looking for the CD not the download site. >    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 17:03:17 -0800 # From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com>t# Subject: RE: Where is Freeware 5.0?f9 Message-ID: <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIIEFLEGAA.tom@kednos.com>M   Wasn't in 7.3 kit that I got.s   > -----Original Message-----7 > From: warren sander [mailto:warren.sander@compaq.com]c( > Sent: Thursday, March 21, 2002 2:06 PM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com % > Subject: Re: Where is Freeware 5.0?  >e >iI > The freeware cd comes with the OS distribution not the layered productse > distributions. >d# > It's online several places and att, > http://www.openvms.compaq.com/freeware youL > can also ftp to www.openvms.compaq.com and download stuff. For some reason< > TCPIP, Apache and Netscape/IE don't like to do ftp:// etc. >h >u > --D > ------------------------------------------------------------------8 > Warren Sander                        OpenVMS Marketing, > Compaq Computer Corporation          Work:! > warren.sander@remove.compaq.come0 > 200 Forest Street MR01-3/J1          Personal: > sander@remove.ma.ultranet.com 5 > Marlboro, MA 01752                   (508) 467-4875k7 >    My opinions are my own and I only speak for myselfO. >          Read http://www.openvms.compaq.com/D > ------------------------------------------------------------------ >R >e >r0 > "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> wrote in message5 > news:CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIIEFDEGAA.tom@kednos.com...h@ > > How is it distributed may be a better question.  Received SWB > > Products Lib from CSA this week and expected to find it there.8 > > Not.  I am looking for the CD not the download site. > >k >a >t   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 23:32:58 -0500m2 From: rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger)# Subject: Re: Where is Freeware 5.0?eK Message-ID: <rdeininger-2103022332590001@1cust116.tnt3.nashua.nh.da.uu.net>r  F In article <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIIEFLEGAA.tom@kednos.com>, "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> wrote:    >Wasn't in 7.3 kit that I got.  H Hmm.  I think 7.3 kits should have included freeware.  Your kit might be9 broken.  You might want to call and ask to have it fixed.e  I I've gotten into the habit of going down the parts list in a software kitaJ and double-checking that each piece is actually in the box.  The elves who< package the kits sometimes get distracted and make mistakes.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 10:57:48 -0800s# From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com>/' Subject: RE: WHERE IS THE COMPAQ DOC???k9 Message-ID: <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIKEEOEGAA.tom@kednos.com>p   Works for me   > -----Original Message-----6 > From: Didier Morandi [mailto:Didier.Morandi@free.fr]) > Sent: Thursday, March 21, 2002 11:00 AM  > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com)% > Subject: WHERE IS THE COMPAQ DOC???  >  >T= > http://www.openvms.compaq.com:8000 does not work anymore...n >n > D. > --J >   ----------------------------------------------------------------------J > MORANDI Consultants  -  WEB: http://Didier.Morandi.Free.fr/index_us.htmlJ > Pflanzschulstrasse 53, 8004 Zurich, Switzerland. GSM: +41 (0)79 705 4670J > 19, chemin de la Butte, 31400 Toulouse, France.  GSM: +33 (0)6 7983 6418 >_J > Disaster Recovery Plans, Computer Security Audits, DEC OpenVMS ExpertiseJ > On parle franais Man spricht Deutsch se habla Castellano English spoken >    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 20:07:50 +0100 - From: Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@free.fr> ' Subject: Re: WHERE IS THE COMPAQ DOC???e' Message-ID: <3C9A2F85.99BEADD4@free.fr>s  ' I get: http://www.compaq.com/compaq.css~   Tom Linden wrote:~ >  > Works for me >  > > -----Original Message-----8 > > From: Didier Morandi [mailto:Didier.Morandi@free.fr]+ > > Sent: Thursday, March 21, 2002 11:00 AMt > > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com ' > > Subject: WHERE IS THE COMPAQ DOC???e > >n > >0? > > http://www.openvms.compaq.com:8000 does not work anymore...e   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 20:10:09 +0100t- From: Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@free.fr>s' Subject: Re: WHERE IS THE COMPAQ DOC???>' Message-ID: <3C9A3010.1FC341A8@free.fr>   > interesting, it works with ie and no more with Netscape 4.7...   Tom Linden wrote:a >  > Works for me >  > > -----Original Message-----8 > > From: Didier Morandi [mailto:Didier.Morandi@free.fr]+ > > Sent: Thursday, March 21, 2002 11:00 AM- > > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com ' > > Subject: WHERE IS THE COMPAQ DOC???  > >  > > ? > > http://www.openvms.compaq.com:8000 does not work anymore...t   ------------------------------    Date: 21 Mar 2002 13:40:02 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)s' Subject: Re: WHERE IS THE COMPAQ DOC???)3 Message-ID: <53osW0cFXlSb@eisner.encompasserve.org>t  W In article <3C9A3010.1FC341A8@free.fr>, Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@free.fr> writes:a@ > interesting, it works with ie and no more with Netscape 4.7...  - It works for me with Netscape 4.75-20000815 .    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 20:45:07 +0100c- From: Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@free.fr>e' Subject: Re: WHERE IS THE COMPAQ DOC???I' Message-ID: <3C9A3843.A97D6082@free.fr>   % 4.76 Mac, still the not found page...(   Larry Kilgallen wrote: > Y > In article <3C9A3010.1FC341A8@free.fr>, Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@free.fr> writes:gB > > interesting, it works with ie and no more with Netscape 4.7... > / > It works for me with Netscape 4.75-20000815 .o   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 20:02:34 GMTa' From: Don Sykes <anonymous@pacbell.net>e' Subject: Re: WHERE IS THE COMPAQ DOC???C+ Message-ID: <3C9A3CBC.2AF6B641@pacbell.net>n   Didier Morandi wrote:a > @ > interesting, it works with ie and no more with Netscape 4.7... > 1 Not for me. It doesn't work for either if I enter   http://www.compaq.com/compaq.cssK But if I enter http://www.openvms.compaq.com:8000/, Netscape converts it toeL www.compaq.com/compaq.css and I get the "Page not found", whereas IE doesn't convert it and it works.M I guess it's just one more site that's been "optimized" for IE. Thanks Billy.M   > Tom Linden wrote:f > >r > > Works for me > >   > > > -----Original Message-----: > > > From: Didier Morandi [mailto:Didier.Morandi@free.fr]- > > > Sent: Thursday, March 21, 2002 11:00 AMu > > > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com ) > > > Subject: WHERE IS THE COMPAQ DOC???f > > >  > > >=A > > > http://www.openvms.compaq.com:8000 does not work anymore...c     -- ?   Have VMS. Will Travel. Wire Paladin @alphase.com 
 San Franciscot   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 21:15:01 +0100r9 From: Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com>e' Subject: Re: WHERE IS THE COMPAQ DOC???h' Message-ID: <3C9A3F45.BCCF8CE6@aaa.com>   / I'm using Netscape 4.74 and I *can not* see thel doc page anymore.h  . I realy hope this will get fixed real soon !!!   Jan-Erik Sderholm.e   Didier Morandi wrote:  > @ > interesting, it works with ie and no more with Netscape 4.7... >  > Tom Linden wrote:k > >d > > Works for me > >   > > > -----Original Message-----: > > > From: Didier Morandi [mailto:Didier.Morandi@free.fr]- > > > Sent: Thursday, March 21, 2002 11:00 AMt > > > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comh) > > > Subject: WHERE IS THE COMPAQ DOC???t > > >g > > >cA > > > http://www.openvms.compaq.com:8000 does not work anymore...C   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 20:25:39 GMTo3 From: sy18889@rabbit.fmr.com (Bradford J. Hamilton)P' Subject: Re: WHERE IS THE COMPAQ DOC???-- Message-ID: <7lrm8.6$M3.82@news-srv1.fmr.com>h  	 Hi Folks,l  K Works fine for me, using MOZILLA 0.9.8 on W2K.  I'm not at work today, so IeI can't try it with the CSWB on VMS, but I assume that would work, as well.i  M I used to prefer Netscape (and despise IE), but I find that MOZILLA is a goodt substitute for Netscape.  U In article <3C9A3CBC.2AF6B641@pacbell.net>, Don Sykes <anonymous@pacbell.net> writes:m >Didier Morandi wrote: >>  A >> interesting, it works with ie and no more with Netscape 4.7...- >> -2 >Not for me. It doesn't work for either if I enter! >http://www.compaq.com/compaq.cssaL >But if I enter http://www.openvms.compaq.com:8000/, Netscape converts it toM >www.compaq.com/compaq.css and I get the "Page not found", whereas IE doesn'tc >convert it and it works.eN >I guess it's just one more site that's been "optimized" for IE. Thanks Billy. >t >> Tom Linden wrote: >> > >> > Works for mel >> >! >> > > -----Original Message-----j; >> > > From: Didier Morandi [mailto:Didier.Morandi@free.fr]l. >> > > Sent: Thursday, March 21, 2002 11:00 AM  >> > > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com* >> > > Subject: WHERE IS THE COMPAQ DOC??? >> > > >> > >B >> > > http://www.openvms.compaq.com:8000 does not work anymore... >o >a >--  >e >Have VMS. Will Travel.. >Wire Paladin @alphase.com y >San Francisco   Bradford J. Hamilton& MAPSbradhamilton@MAPSattbi.com		(home)& sy18889MAPS@rabbit.MAPSfmr.com		(work)  ; "All opinions that I express are my own, not my employer's"C "Lose the MAPS"s   ------------------------------    Date: 21 Mar 2002 15:10:06 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)s' Subject: Re: WHERE IS THE COMPAQ DOC???y3 Message-ID: <mPXFIun+xwc+@eisner.encompasserve.org>1  W In article <3C9A3843.A97D6082@free.fr>, Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@free.fr> writes: ' > 4.76 Mac, still the not found page...r >  > Larry Kilgallen wrote: >>  Z >> In article <3C9A3010.1FC341A8@free.fr>, Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@free.fr> writes:C >> > interesting, it works with ie and no more with Netscape 4.7...- >> -0 >> It works for me with Netscape 4.75-20000815 .   Mine is on MacOS 8.6.j   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 17:04:00 -0500p0 From: "warren sander" <warren.sander@compaq.com>' Subject: Re: WHERE IS THE COMPAQ DOC??? 3 Message-ID: <kNsm8.1339$fL6.26866@news.cpqcorp.net>   I The maintainer miscoded the style sheet include. Netscape blows up if theo3 style sheet isn't there. IE just ignores the error.t  L The stylesheet link has been recoded correctly and the site is working fine.  L Also some firewalls block port 8000 if that is your problem then you can use! http://www.openvms.compaq.com/doct   -warren    --B ------------------------------------------------------------------6 Warren Sander                        OpenVMS MarketingK Compaq Computer Corporation          Work:  warren.sander@remove.compaq.comlL 200 Forest Street MR01-3/J1          Personal: sander@remove.ma.ultranet.com3 Marlboro, MA 01752                   (508) 467-4875d5    My opinions are my own and I only speak for myselfp,          Read http://www.openvms.compaq.com/B ------------------------------------------------------------------    : "Didier Morandi" <Didier.Morandi@free.fr> wrote in message! news:3C9A2DC9.1EA088E6@free.fr...v= > http://www.openvms.compaq.com:8000 does not work anymore...l >o > D. > --J >   ----------------------------------------------------------------------J > MORANDI Consultants  -  WEB: http://Didier.Morandi.Free.fr/index_us.htmlJ > Pflanzschulstrasse 53, 8004 Zurich, Switzerland. GSM: +41 (0)79 705 4670J > 19, chemin de la Butte, 31400 Toulouse, France.  GSM: +33 (0)6 7983 6418 >aJ > Disaster Recovery Plans, Computer Security Audits, DEC OpenVMS ExpertiseJ > On parle franais Man spricht Deutsch se habla Castellano English spoken   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 02:58:27 GMTu1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>r' Subject: Re: WHERE IS THE COMPAQ DOC???y' Message-ID: <3C9A9F77.76100035@fsi.net>a   Didier Morandi wrote:o > ' > 4.76 Mac, still the not found page...n >  > Larry Kilgallen wrote: > >s[ > > In article <3C9A3010.1FC341A8@free.fr>, Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@free.fr> writes: D > > > interesting, it works with ie and no more with Netscape 4.7... > >e1 > > It works for me with Netscape 4.75-20000815 .   & Try http://www.openvms.compaq.com/doc/   -- e David J. Dachtera- dba DJE Systems- http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/-   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 02:59:29 GMTo1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>n' Subject: Re: WHERE IS THE COMPAQ DOC???#' Message-ID: <3C9A9FB5.54713BFB@fsi.net>-   Jan-Erik Sderholm wrote:a > 1 > I'm using Netscape 4.74 and I *can not* see ther > doc page anymore.: > 0 > I realy hope this will get fixed real soon !!!  & Try http://www.openvms.compaq.com/doc/   -- T David J. Dachtera3 dba DJE SystemsH http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 06:00:40 +0100 - From: Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@free.fr>s' Subject: Re: WHERE IS THE COMPAQ DOC??? ' Message-ID: <3C9ABA79.61CDA252@free.fr>t   both links work this morning....  
 Thanks, pals.    D.   "David J. Dachtera" wrote: >  > ( > Try http://www.openvms.compaq.com/doc/   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 06:02:36 +0100m- From: Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@free.fr> ' Subject: Re: WHERE IS THE COMPAQ DOC???e' Message-ID: <3C9ABAED.2E1BE2D2@free.fr>6   Thank you Warren.e   D.   warren sander wrote: > K > The maintainer miscoded the style sheet include. Netscape blows up if thei5 > style sheet isn't there. IE just ignores the error.i > N > The stylesheet link has been recoded correctly and the site is working fine. > N > Also some firewalls block port 8000 if that is your problem then you can use# > http://www.openvms.compaq.com/docF   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 02:39:02 GMT 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>s3 Subject: Re: Witch streamer supported vax-4000-90 ?h' Message-ID: <3C9A9AE9.F9CAA447@fsi.net>V   Roy Omond wrote: >  > "David J. Dachtera" wrote: >  > > [...snip...] > > > > INITIALIZE is not "format" and "format" is not INITIALIZE. > K > > If that were the case, and VMS worked with QIC-80, Travan, etc. drives,sH > > INITIALIZE would likely timeout long before the 3+ hours it takes to+ > > format a TR-1 or better tape cartridge.  > >-; > > Did you ever try to INITIALIZE an unformatted diskette?0 > >m% > > Try thinking of it in UN*X terms:  > >j7 > > (fd)format is not mkfs, and mkfs is not (fd)format.g > > F > > INITIALIZE equates (a bit roughly) to UN*X-land "mkfs", or DOS/Win > > "'quick' format".  > >aH > > QIC tapes have a "format" written on them similar to the soft sector= > > marks on diskettes. This is unlike 9-track and DLT tapes.z > >@E > > To my knowledge, outside of low-level formatters included in some1G > > MicroVAX console firmware, I am not aware of any VMS or VMS-relatedrL > > equivalents to the UN*X or DOS "format" ("long" format on DOS) commands,I > > and certainly nothing equivalent to various proprietary products thato# > > will format QIC tapes and such.i > C > I'm not sure if it can deal with QIC tape formatting, but try out-# > the RZTOOLS_Alpha.Exe in Sys$Etc:2 > E > I don't have any QIC drives to test it, but I see no obvious reason>B > to think that the Format command should not work on such a tape.  B Hhmmm... I was under the impression that QIC drives were like CD-RH drives - no really common command set for such things. I could be wrong.@ I'll try to hook it (TZK10) to the Alpha and see what happens...  7 > FWIW, I've formatted hundreds of disks using RZTools.s  ! That's a low level format, right?'   -- t David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems- http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/M   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2002.159 ************************