1 INFO-VAX	Tue, 26 Mar 2002	Volume 2002 : Issue 168       Contents: Re: ADA95 for ia64/OpenVMS Re: ADA95 for ia64/OpenVMS Re: ADA95 for ia64/OpenVMS Re: ADA95 for ia64/OpenVMS Re: ADA95 for ia64/OpenVMS Re: Alpha emulator ??  Re: Alpha emulator ??  RE: Alpha emulator ?? 0 Re: another hint of post-merger direction, maybe0 Re: another hint of post-merger direction, maybe0 Re: another hint of post-merger direction, maybe Re: Blade architectures  Re: Blade architectures  Re: Blade architectures  Re: Blade architectures  Re: Blade architectures  Re: Blade architectures  Re: Blade architectures  Re: Blade architectures  Re: Blade architectures 
 C++ object Re: C++ object Conozca SCI E-mailing  Re: creating a mailbox in DCL  Re: creating a mailbox in DCL  Re: creating a mailbox in DCL  DCL versus EXE invocation  Re: DCL versus EXE invocation  Re: DCL versus EXE invocation  Re: DCL versus EXE invocation  Re: DCPI for VMS!  Re: DCPS version 2.0/ Re: DEC C: why does exit(0) really exit with 1? / Re: DEC C: why does exit(0) really exit with 1? / Re: DEC C: why does exit(0) really exit with 1? / Re: DEC C: why does exit(0) really exit with 1? / Re: DEC C: why does exit(0) really exit with 1? / Re: DEC C: why does exit(0) really exit with 1? / Re: DEC C: why does exit(0) really exit with 1? / Re: DEC C: why does exit(0) really exit with 1? / Re: DEC C: why does exit(0) really exit with 1?  Re: DECterm X client, ACCPORNAM  Dynamic function (in C)  Re: Dynamic function (in C)  Re: Dynamic function (in C) 5 Re: Flash plugin now available for Mozilla on OpenVMS 5 Re: Flash plugin now available for Mozilla on OpenVMS  Re: How to fork() ? + Re: How to know if EDS hires for VMS Eng. ? G Re: HP's viewpoint on Linux, was: Re: Sun eating major helping of Linux F Re: HP's viewpoint on Linux, was: Re: Sun eating major helping ofLinuxF RE: HP's viewpoint on Linux, was: Re: Sun eating major helping ofLinuxF Re: HP's viewpoint on Linux, was: Re: Sun eating major helping ofLinuxF Re: HP's viewpoint on Linux, was: Re: Sun eating major helping ofLinuxF Re: HP's viewpoint on Linux, was: Re: Sun eating major helping ofLinuxF Re: HP's viewpoint on Linux, was: Re: Sun eating major helping ofLinuxF RE: HP's viewpoint on Linux, was: Re: Sun eating major helping ofLinux! KAPSCH says goodbye to you and me  KZPCC-AC Needed  RE: KZPCC-AC Needed  Re: Lottery and VMS  Re: Lottery and VMS  Re: Lottery and VMS  Re: Lottery and VMS  Re: Lottery and VMS  Re: Lottery and VMS  Re: Lottery and VMS  Re: Lottery and VMS  Re: Lottery and VMS  Re: Lottery and VMS  Re: Lottery and VMS  Re: Lottery and VMS 7 Re: Low Level format of SCSI Disc in VaxStation 4000VLC 
 lpd on OCEG Re: New book: OpenVMS with Apache, OSU, and WASD, The Nonstop Webserver G Re: New book: OpenVMS with Apache, OSU, and WASD, The Nonstop Webserver G Re: New book: OpenVMS with Apache, OSU, and WASD, The Nonstop Webserver G Re: New book: OpenVMS with Apache, OSU, and WASD, The Nonstop Webserver G Re: New book: OpenVMS with Apache, OSU, and WASD, The Nonstop Webserver G Re: New book: OpenVMS with Apache, OSU, and WASD, The Nonstop Webserver G Re: New book: OpenVMS with Apache, OSU, and WASD, The Nonstop Webserver G Re: New book: OpenVMS with Apache, OSU, and WASD, The Nonstop Webserver G Re: New book: OpenVMS with Apache, OSU, and WASD, The Nonstop Webserver  Re: News Server Software Re: News Server Software Re: News Server Software Re: News Server Software Re: News Server Software RE: News Server Software Re: News Server Software Re: News Server SoftwareP Re: No cracking contests on the WWW - was Re: Once a fool, always a fool I guess* Re: Once a fool, always a fool I guess ...* Re: Once a fool, always a fool I guess ...* Re: Once a fool, always a fool I guess ... OpenSSH Client Re: OpenSSH Client Re: OpenSSH Client Re: OpenSSH Client Re: OpenSSH Client( RE: Resumes [was: Right down the middle] Re: Right down the middle  Re: Set user similar to SU Re: Set user similar to SU Re: Set user similar to SU simple ftp command file  Re: simple ftp command file  Re: simple ftp command file  Re: simple ftp command file  Re: simple ftp command file & SW Command Console for Raid array 3000* Re: SW Command Console for Raid array 3000* Re: SW Command Console for Raid array 3000* Re: SW Command Console for Raid array 3000 tcpip5.1  smtp question  Re: tcpip5.1  smtp question  RE: tcpip5.1  smtp question  Re: tcpip5.1  smtp question  Re: Testing DNEWS 
 Testing DNEWS 0 Today's odd Compaq Working Group Survey Question  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------   Date: 26 Mar 2002 08:18:17 GMT- From: djweath@attglobal.net (Dave Weatherall) # Subject: Re: ADA95 for ia64/OpenVMS 5 Message-ID: <DTiotGxQ0bj6-pn2-nv4mOkhdVxWB@localhost>   E On Mon, 25 Mar 2002 16:54:36 UTC, Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1>   wrote:   > Bob Koehler wrote: > > m > > In article <3C9B50A5.F49DD68D@gtech.com>, Arne =?iso-8859-1?Q?Vajh=F8j?= <arne.vajhoej@gtech.com> writes:  > > >  > > > Good news. > > >  > > > For those that use Ada.  > > >  > > J > >    Nope.  A lot of users are heavily tied to DEC Ada (83?).  Moving to( > >    GNAT is going to be a major cost. >  > Ditto. > D > And many (all) flight software development systems have to be keptH > operational during the lifetime [of the aircraft], considerably longerE > than Compaq's current projected time scales of *anything*. Consider H > Concorde - engineering had to take place, not sure if software systemsE > were involved but should prove the point. 1969 - heyday of the PDP.  > G > The problem is if someone is now forced to rework and recertify code, J > will the lure of other platforms take their toll on the VMS base? VAX toC > Alpha, a lot of compatibility (VAX_Float) was kept, so helped the J > transition. This is one key area I'm not sure Compaq have fully exploredJ > the issues involved. I don't think they are even aware of the numbers of) > systems, by definition many are secret.  > E > I personally still maintain not providing / continuing DEC Ada is a 
 > mistake. >   F I believe you're correct Nic  but Mr Capellas did say 2(?) years ago  F that Aerospace was not a major concern in Compaq's considerations withF VMS. As yourself ,Brian and others pointed out at that time, the move D from VAX to Alpha alone is forcing/has forced a review of platforms C for Ada development, particularly in the aircraft industry. If you  F have to go through the pain and cost of requalification then you mightE as well do as much as you can, to rationalise while you're at it. In  A many instances, this means getting off VMS and onto Sun/Solaris.  B Because that's where the tool development is being done. Rational F being the big one. Aonix andTeamwork the other names that come quickly to mind.  B Our computer room, which was all DEC (I'm told we had the largest E Cluster in Europe, that might have been an excuse from MTI as to why  E their Stingray had so many problems, but I digress...:-))  now has 3  B Suns, 4 Alphas and 3 VAXen. The latter because some customers are E still on VAX but everything that our group produce runs on both. How  C may Suns are in our backup room I don't know. I never go in there.  ? There's at least one and probably two. The newest installation  F replaces SDL ADA 83 on VMS  plus Rational and/or other tools(IIRC) on B Tru64  with Rational-only under Solaris. The foot in the door was  Teamwork on Solaris.  E Our management talks of cutting the number of platforms we use (VMS,  D Solaris and NT). Guess which one they think should be rationalised. F This is, of course, not related to IA64 particularly. This is just the usual story.    --   Cheers - Dave.  B PS. I have to add that some of the problems VMS faces are down to F those System Managers who insist on not allowing users 'normal' logon C access. In my own company there are people who believe VMS to be a  C closed system that they might be 'priveleged' to use via a captive  ? account. Whether, this was a hangover from IBM-style mainframe  ? behaviour, I'm not sure. What it did mean was that when the PC  C revolution came, many engineers grabbed the opportunity to get out  E from under, as it were. Unix in many respects continues that trend...    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 12:51:36 +0100 = From: Arne =?iso-8859-1?Q?Vajh=F8j?= <arne.vajhoej@gtech.com> # Subject: Re: ADA95 for ia64/OpenVMS ) Message-ID: <3CA060C7.C518FEDC@gtech.com>    Larry Kilgallen wrote:k > In article <3C9F49DD.29AB7480@gtech.com>, Arne =?iso-8859-1?Q?Vajh=F8j?= <arne.vajhoej@gtech.com> writes:  > > Bob Koehler wrote:K > >>    Nope.  A lot of users are heavily tied to DEC Ada (83?).  Moving to ) > >>    GNAT is going to be a major cost.  > > 	 > > Hmmm.  > > 6 > > Would they not have to migrate from Ada83 to Ada95" > > at some point in time anyway ? > B > No.  Ada95 introduces dynamic dispatching and other capabilities@ > that may be forbidden to those writing certain safety-critical? > applications.  I understand there is a SPARK subset for Ada95 @ > as well, but for someone to want to move to Ada95 there should > be a reason. > A > This is not just a matter of personal desire -- it is perfectly C > reasonable for someone to use DEC Ada for some projects and Ada95  > for other projects.   B OK - I do not know Ada (wanted to learn it for a long time - never had the time).  D But is the changes from 83->95 not a pure extension ? I would assume@ that 83 code compiled with 95 to keep the functionality. And new0 undesired features in 95 you could just not use.    But as I said I do not know Ada.   Arne   ------------------------------    Date: 26 Mar 2002 07:43:41 -0600- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) # Subject: Re: ADA95 for ia64/OpenVMS 3 Message-ID: <BaiKyLgI7AJ+@eisner.encompasserve.org>   ] In article <3c9f5886.0@topcat.tabbygnat.com>, "Douglas B Rupp" <rupp@nospam_gnat.com> writes: G > GNAT on VMS supports all the DEC Ada pragmas and attributes and tries ' > to be highly compatible with DEC Ada.  > M > If you have some specific complaints or suggestions for improvement of GNAT 	 > on VMS,   > we would be glad to hear them. >   ,    Please see other posts for the specifics.   ------------------------------    Date: 26 Mar 2002 07:42:04 -0600- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) # Subject: Re: ADA95 for ia64/OpenVMS 3 Message-ID: <jxj21zvV8VG7@eisner.encompasserve.org>   i In article <3C9F49DD.29AB7480@gtech.com>, Arne =?iso-8859-1?Q?Vajh=F8j?= <arne.vajhoej@gtech.com> writes:  >  > Hmmm.  > 4 > Would they not have to migrate from Ada83 to Ada95  > at some point in time anyway ?  G    Very likely once they had a certified working systems they froze it. A    No hardware upgrades, no software upgrades.  Changing anything @    requires some recertification.  A port to GNAT on IPF changesB    everything and requires massive recertification.  DEC Ada 83 onA    IPF could mean less recertification and a software environment =    (ACS, debug, and such) that they're already familiar with.    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 15:22:44 GMT + From: "Ben Brosgol" <brosgol@world.std.com> # Subject: Re: ADA95 for ia64/OpenVMS & Message-ID: <GtL7HA.MDu@world.std.com>  7 "Arne Vajhj" <arne.vajhoej@gtech.com> wrote in message # news:3CA060C7.C518FEDC@gtech.com...  > Larry Kilgallen wrote:L > > In article <3C9F49DD.29AB7480@gtech.com>, Arne =?iso-8859-1?Q?Vajh=F8j?=  <arne.vajhoej@gtech.com> writes: > > > Bob Koehler wrote:J > > >>    Nope.  A lot of users are heavily tied to DEC Ada (83?).  Moving to+ > > >>    GNAT is going to be a major cost.  > > >  > > > Hmmm.  > > > 8 > > > Would they not have to migrate from Ada83 to Ada95$ > > > at some point in time anyway ? > > D > > No.  Ada95 introduces dynamic dispatching and other capabilitiesB > > that may be forbidden to those writing certain safety-criticalA > > applications.  I understand there is a SPARK subset for Ada95 B > > as well, but for someone to want to move to Ada95 there should > > be a reason.  I I have found the access type enhancements ("pointers" to declared objects H and to subprograms), unsigned ("modular") integer types, new interfacingJ facilities, and the tasking enhancements (e.g., protected types/objects vsL Ada 83 "monitor" tasks) to be some of the attractions to get Ada 83 users toK move to Ada 95.  In the safety critical area there is a tasking subset (the 8 "Ravenscar profile") that is conducive to certification.  C > > This is not just a matter of personal desire -- it is perfectly E > > reasonable for someone to use DEC Ada for some projects and Ada95  > > for other projects.  > D > OK - I do not know Ada (wanted to learn it for a long time - never > had the time).   It's never too late :-)   F > But is the changes from 83->95 not a pure extension ? I would assumeB > that 83 code compiled with 95 to keep the functionality. And new2 > undesired features in 95 you could just not use.  I Ada 95 is (almost completely) upward compatible with Ada 83; that is, for J the most part, a program that is legal in Ada 83 will also be legal in AdaI 95, and it will not do something in Ada 95 that was not also permitted in L Ada 83.  Note that some legal Ada 83 programs will fail to compile in Ada 95I (e.g., Ada 95 introduced a few new reserved words so these may clash with L identifiers in an Ada 83 program).  But the "evil incompatibilities" where aL legal Ada 83 program is legal in Ada 95 and has a run-time effect that wouldJ not be possible in Ada 95 are extremely rare and for the most part show upJ only in pathological contrived cases.  The exception to be aware of is theL switch from 7-bit ASCII to 8-bit Latin-1: a character-handling app in Ada 83K may have a different effect in Ada 95.  But in practice this has not proved J to be a problem.  Our customers have ported hundreds of thousands of linesK of Ada 83 code (developed under various vendors' compilers) to Ada 95 under H GNAT, and the sorts of problems that have been encountered are ones thatD would also arise in going between different Ada 83 compilers (use of> vendor-specific pragmas, target architecture differences etc.)  " > But as I said I do not know Ada.  ( That needn't be a permanent situaion :-)   > Arne   Ben Brosgol  Ada Core Technologies  brosgol@gnat.com   ------------------------------    Date: 26 Mar 2002 03:11:28 -0800) From: P.Young@unsw.EDU.AU (Patrick Young)  Subject: Re: Alpha emulator ??= Message-ID: <55f85d77.0203260311.5a13921d@posting.google.com>   d bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) wrote in message news:<a7nmj8$lbn$1@info.cs.uofs.edu>...6 > In article <%EHn8.27430$n4.5413016@newsc.telia.net>,3 >  "Fim Wstberg" <fim.wastberg@fimator.se> writes: . > |> I know that there is a Vax-emulator , but5 > |> does anybody knows if there is an Alpha-emulator  > |> under Windows somewhere?? > E > I wouldn't think anyone would consider it useful enough emulating a 6 > powerful system on a weaker one to attempt the task. >   A That question has been nagging me for a couple of years. Dropping @ the Window(tm) (or LINUX) part, and running native? The emulatorC being it's own "O/S" with it's own SRM. IE: the SRM as the host O/S D "look alike". I've never asked this question for exactly that reasonC (and the fact it is not polite to ask it for the reason of relating & it (Alpha) to lower quality products).  B Nagging me is the question - "Would I buy a pentia (or even pentiaF compatible), *with my own money*, - thus falling to the "PC industry",# even _IF_ such a product existed???   ? Tempting, but I would have to be put in that position to make a ? decision either way. If it resulted in the purchase of anything A relating to M$ (ie: a hidden Window(tm) license) the answer would  be *NO*.   ------------------------------    Date: 26 Mar 2002 16:33:17 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com> Subject: Re: Alpha emulator ??- Message-ID: <871ye7wwxe.fsf@prep.synonet.com>   0 "Fim Wstberg" <fim.wastberg@fimator.se> writes:  A > I know that there is a Vax-emulator , but does anybody knows if 6 > there is an Alpha-emulator under Windows somewhere??  C WEll, there is good news, and bad news. The good news is yes, there A are two Alpha simulators. The bad news is windows, but you should  know that by now.   B Hunt around DEC research, there is a pointer in there somewhere...   -- S< Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.l@                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 09:09:58 -0500 + From: "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@Compaq.com>c Subject: RE: Alpha emulator ??T Message-ID: <BE56C50EA024184DAF48F0B9A47F5CF4016CEC63@kaoexc01.americas.cpqcorp.net>  H Not sure if this is what you are looking for, but as a fyi - this is a = VAX emulator on Alpha OpenVMS:  5 http://www.softresint.com/charon-vax/CHVX_OpenVMS.htmvF "The CHARON-VAX emulator for OpenVMS/Alpha is a software application =I emulating a complete MicroVAX hardware system, with the goal to execute =lC unmodified VAX operating systems and applicatins - directly on an =e OpenVMS / Alpha host.0  J The VAX software is simply transferred to the OpenVMS / Alpha system and =I executed by CHARON-VAX. The emulator operates at the VAX hardware level =eJ and is not constrained to a specific VAX operating system or application =A type. The application and system user interface are not modified.t  A CHARON-VAX for OpenVMS / Alpha is intended for small legacy VAX =uG applications, possibily requiring an older version of a VAX operating = B system, that cannot easily be migrated to OpenVMS / Alpha systems.   Regards,  
 Kerry Main Senior Consultant  Compaq Canada Corp.  Professional Servicesh Voice: 613-592-4660  Fax  :  819-772-7036 Email: Kerry.Main@Compaq.com     -----Original Message-----6 From: Paul Repacholi [mailto:prep@prep.synonet.com]=20 Sent: March 26, 2002 3:33 AM To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comj Subject: Re: Alpha emulator ??    2 "Fim W=E4stberg" <fim.wastberg@fimator.se> writes:  J > I know that there is a Vax-emulator , but does anybody knows if there=200 > is an Alpha-emulator under Windows somewhere??  I WEll, there is good news, and bad news. The good news is yes, there are =lI two Alpha simulators. The bad news is windows, but you should know that =g
 by now.=20  B Hunt around DEC research, there is a pointer in there somewhere...   --=20o< Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda. G                                              West Australia 6076 Raw, =eI Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked. EPIC, The Architecture of the =e( future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------    Date: 26 Mar 2002 05:28:45 -0800( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)9 Subject: Re: another hint of post-merger direction, maybe = Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0203260528.25d5edd6@posting.google.com>   a JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message news:<3CA01B10.FF4BA578@videotron.ca>...h > Bill Todd wrote:F > > http://www.nytimes.com/2002/03/25/technology/ebusiness/25HEWL.html >  > H > Thanks for the pointer. most interesting article. However, I found the > following more telling:e >  > ##O > "Out of the blocks, we have to move as fast as we can," said Bar- bara Braun,iL > a senior manager for the Hewlett-Packard integration team. To do that, Mr.O > McKinney said, the team has taken as one of its operating principles the needeE > to make tough decisions instead of "trying to make everyone happy."  > <...>SO > But according to members of the transition team, the decisions that have been P > made include what products will be promoted and supported most aggressively. AP > day or so after the merger is approved, the top 100 corporate customers of theP > combined company will be visited by Hewlett-Packard representatives with boundK > "play books" detailing the company's product plans and who the customer'ss > account team will be.  > L >  The product lines no longer marked for continued investment, Mr. McKinneyK > emphasized, will not be jettisoned immediately. For example, he said thatlP > Hewlett-Packard's standard service contracts routinely call for the company toP > continue supplying technical support for five years after a line is obsolete.  > J >  Still, a crucial element in the merger's success will be how convincingD > corporate customers find the Hewlett-Packard "migration path" fromL > discontinued product lines to other offerings the company will feature. IfL > customers do not go along, and defect to competitors, the revenue loss forL > Hewlett-Packard could be far more than the 5 percent over all it expects.  > ##  B and we will be one of the defectors if they drop vms ... why would! any vms customer stay w/o vms ...    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 17:33:29 GMTr0 From: prune@ZAnkh-Morpork.mv.com (Paul Winalski)9 Subject: Re: another hint of post-merger direction, maybej9 Message-ID: <3ca0b09b.1274192612@proxy.news.easynews.com>w  F On Tue, 26 Mar 2002 06:07:09 GMT, "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote:  K >Now, that's Compaq stupidity at its finest.  Let's relegate a product thataH >could be potentially miles ahead of any commercial Unix competitor to a
 >niche market   ; [the niche market being referred to is technical computing],  A > that has relatively little need of the unique value (clusteringf8 >being a biggie) that we're in a unique position to add.  ? Actually, high-performance technical computing these days meanspC massive parallelism.  Clustering and related features in Tru64 UnixoE are important plusses and a big reason why Tru64 is such an importantoC player in that market.  And HPTC is less of a niche than it used totC be.  It's not just DoD, the spooks, and weather simulation anymore. B There's big growth in biomedical and entertainment applications as well.i
 ---------- Remove 'Z' to reply by email.o   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 18:10:13 GMTs* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>9 Subject: Re: another hint of post-merger direction, maybeeC Message-ID: <9Q2o8.267460$uv5.23294665@bin6.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>n  = "Paul Winalski" <prune@ZAnkh-Morpork.mv.com> wrote in messagee3 news:3ca0b09b.1274192612@proxy.news.easynews.com...vH > On Tue, 26 Mar 2002 06:07:09 GMT, "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> > wrote: >oH > >Now, that's Compaq stupidity at its finest.  Let's relegate a product thatJ > >could be potentially miles ahead of any commercial Unix competitor to a > >niche market  >l= > [the niche market being referred to is technical computing]S >dC > > that has relatively little need of the unique value (clusteringi: > >being a biggie) that we're in a unique position to add. >hA > Actually, high-performance technical computing these days meanssE > massive parallelism.  Clustering and related features in Tru64 UnixaG > are important plusses and a big reason why Tru64 is such an importantmE > player in that market.  And HPTC is less of a niche than it used toaE > be.  It's not just DoD, the spooks, and weather simulation anymore.gD > There's big growth in biomedical and entertainment applications as > well.   L While I'll grant that Tru64 clustering is useful in HPTC, I question whetherL it is all that much of an advantage over conventional Beowulf configurationsL using already-existing third-party software and suspect that in many case itA kind of gets dragged along by the use of Alpha.  By contrast, itstL high-availability features are *critical* to a commercial market that dwarfsI HPTC in size and has much less in the way of alternatives to choose from, B which is why I referred to the latter as a niche - and to Compaq's leadership as morons.l   - bill   ------------------------------   Date: 26 Mar 2002 08:02:37 GMT+ From: mailer-daemon@bof.de (Patrick Schaaf)n  Subject: Re: Blade architectures7 Message-ID: <3ca02b1d$0$12731$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>   6 gherbert@gw.retro.com (George William Herbert) writes:  F >You're assuming here (and later explicitly ask) that Web server farmsF >are disk-intensive.  I would challenge that assumption.  The websitesE >I have been associated with typically broke down into a small statictC >content site (would fit, along with OS and webserver S/W and logs,2B >into a few gig at most), a small dynamic content site (would fit,D >along with OS and app server S/W and logs, into a few gig at most),* >and a very, very large back end database.  G Working "inside" an ~600 machine "web server farm", I mostly agree with5D your observation. Almost all machines are dual P-III "standard Intel? server appliances", procured over the last 3 years from about 48D independant suppliers. The OS is Linux. Most of the machines consumeA all their CPU, and most of their RAM, to handle the "traditional"aA one-Apache-per-HTTP-Request in a world of Java and PHP.  However, ; for most of our applications, any client may talk to any ofb? an easily replicated set of server boxes running those Apaches.I? Common load balancing equipment does the distribution, and evenrA a moderately good job at resilience. This results a clear scaling A path: buy more frontend machines. Consequently, we chose dual SMP B Intel Pentium servers. When procuring, we look at supplier quality@ on a multiyear timespan, and at the price/performance sweetspot.  A A smaller number of machines run partitioned databases, where theoB central performance problem, pushing us towards a 3-tier setup, isI handling of the large number of connects from all those frontend Apaches.c  A The disks are, for the most part, sitting idle. On a small number-A of central "index" servers for the partitioned data sets, runningmI either an SQL database or an LDAP master repository, there is significantnE write traffic. But so far no application exceeded the "single master"eB capacity. The frontend operates its read requests from replicas of those masters.  E Again, these real databases and index index databases, where they can F be suitably partitioned, run on dual P-III boxen. Nowadays, where theyH have to store large volumes of information, these are mostly 4U machines5 with 16 IDE drives (dual 3ware IDE RAID controllers).o  @ On a small, but significant, subset of the servers, we have both? idle CPU and idle disks, the main ingredient being main memory.e@ These are the static page delivery frontends with good locality.? They calls for looking at the main memory oomph/$, again served@= best by "standard Intel server appliances". If it doesn't fitc the RAM of one box, partition.  > Due to the trivially partitionable nature of our applications,A blades superficially look good for what we do. They seem an idealrF replacement for our normal 1U and 2U "standard Intel server appliance"G boxen. Maybe, in 2 years, when they reach price/performance equilibrum,AA we'll even consider that. We are not that much space constrained,n6 so a higher per-machine cost does not seem acceptable.  @ In the meantime, we are looking at Linux support for running our? logical frontend servers for smaller web sites shared on one ofe= our already existing boxes which have some of their resourceswA (CPU or main memory, to a lesser extent disk I/O) idle right now.G@ This leads to all those resource-accounting and fairness issues,E which happen to start to be addressed at the Linux core. For example,l2 see http://www.solucorp.qc.ca/miscprj/s_context.hc  D To summarize, I think there is a market for blade servers, but it isG not that large, and already served with a more cost effective solution.d@ This calls into doubt whether blade servers will experience real economies of scale.   D It is far beyond my imagination how anybody could tout blade servers9 as the future for any of the high-end large SMP machines.A   best regards	   Patrickp   ------------------------------    Date: 26 Mar 2002 00:30:20 -08004 From: gherbert@gw.retro.com (George William Herbert)  Subject: Re: Blade architectures' Message-ID: <a7pbis$5ak$1@gw.retro.com>   ) Bill Todd <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote:r9 >"Christopher Brian Colohan" <colohan+@cs.cmu.edu> wrote:e9 >> gherbert@gw.retro.com (George William Herbert) writes:oF >> > How many hosting facility server rooms have you been in recently? >>E >> In the thread that starts here, there is one point I have not seenoH >> made: web hosting facilities often host web sites for many customers,H >> not just one.  It is much easier to manage web sites if each customerH >> gets their own machine(s), since this limits interactions between twoB >> customers on a single machine.  So I would imagine that a largeG >> selling point of "small, self contained, easy to stack" computers isI? >> you can pack a large number of customers into a small space.a >>H >> From a hardware utilization standpoint having a computer per web siteD >> is inefficient as hell.  But in this case it is more important to >> have: >>; >> a) Simple units of computation to sell to customers, ands >>E >> b) Isolation of web sites -- if one web site is heavily loaded, itt4 >> should not adversely affect your other customers. >dM >That's fine if a single blade can handle the demands of an entire Web site - L >but I question whether that fits the profile of the typical bulk-hosted WebK >site, or at least of a sufficient absolute number of bulk-hosted Web sites M >to justify the creation of the blade architecture.  Not to mention the issueoG >of the degree to which each blade is unaffected by the activity of the E >others (backplane kinds of issues, though if the current blades haveeK >independent access to the external network that's not a problem - but alsocJ >is a significant impediment to using them in more cooperative endeavors).  A Most of those vendors have been using either virtual directories,.@ shared off larger common servers, or virtual machines running on? larger beefier hardware.  I don't know that anyone wants to try(6 using Blades that way, though obviously one could try.  K >And if there's a significant ancillary back-end database required behind a K >Web site, then the potential for adverse interactions exists there as wellsL >(unless each database is run on a separate machine, which comes back to theL >question of whether it can fit on a single blade disk).  Not to mention theK >common desire for data redundancy for higher availability, which is better-L >satisfied by multi-hosted back-end redundant storage than by replicating itL >on each individual blade (and the former is supported by existing software,H >via fail-over mechanisms, while the latter is comparatively unusual and: >supported by few if any OSs that run on Intel platforms). >tK >Yes, redundancy can be handled at the application level, and at least somerK >Web applications do.  But it requires on-the-fly rebuild code (trivial fordL >read-only data, not so trivial for read/write data) in the application whenF >a component is replaced, rather than simple use of existing OS (e.g.,M >Windows or Unix clustering) facilities and fail-over mechanisms with storaget2 >back-ends that take care of their own redundancy.  A As far as I know, all the major commercial app servers handle ther? session data sharing / clustering / failover automatically now.   H This is greatly helped by the atomicity of access... a page at a time...D and the fact that users don't mind hitting the reload button once ifD something wierd happens during their page rendering.  Web app serverC failover is not trivial, but is one of the easier and less rigorouse1 clustering design problems all things considered.   L >Of course, common Intel platform OSs may not support the full-fledged quotaK >mechanisms that prevent individual applications from gobbling up more thannI >their share of system resources, but when you're talking about large Web*H >server farms you're talking about environments that can easily considerI >making use of higher-end consolidated server platforms that *do* support M >such facilities.  And from the sound of things, such platforms could be moreeE >than cost-competitive with blade approaches offering similar overalloM >performance (even Linux on z-Series seems to be so at the moment, and that's < >likely far from the most cost-effective solution possible). >rL >So while I'll freely admit, as I did originally, that certain kinds of HPTCK >environments may fit blade servers like a glove (at least if the per-bladerD >price decreases to be competitive with a low-end PC box), I'm stillH >unconvinced of any major commercial utility (unless one considers theirL >ability to run Windows to be of some major importance, which I suppose some >people might).   D Imagine that everyone buying 1U servers buys blades in 2003 instead. That'll be a few units there...-     -george william herbert0 gherbert@retro.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 10:21:26 +0100?* From: Alexis Cousein <al@brussels.sgi.com>  Subject: Re: Blade architectures- Message-ID: <3CA03D96.90404@brussels.sgi.com>o   Bill Todd wrote:K > Blade advocates may counter by saying that such specialized servers would/4 > themselves be best implemented as bladed servers,   E No arguments from SGI - at least not provided you have something realo3 and better than infiniband to tie up the bricks ;).o  / Need a copy of the Origin 300/3000 tech report?c   -- a? <these messages express my own views, not those of my employer>e) Alexis Cousein				Senior Systems Engineerx. SGI Belgium and Luxemburg		al@brussels.sgi.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 10:28:02 +0100g* From: Alexis Cousein <al@brussels.sgi.com>  Subject: Re: Blade architectures/ Message-ID: <3CA03F22.3020609@brussels.sgi.com>i   JF Mezei wrote:l > Bill Todd wrote: > N >>So blades as I currently understand their definition don't look particularlyK >>attractive to me compared with alternatives, even if Itanic were remotelyn >> > I > I was under the impression that Compaq's version of Blades was simply a4N > packaging/cabinet product that allowed many wintel pizza boxes to be screwedM > into the same cabinet with an ethernet in the back. The advantage being the6P > reduced floor space and more professional look. (making wintel boxes look like > a PDP-11). >   > Is this a correct perception ? >   C Yes. My perception is also that the hardware isn't screamingly fast F (compared to 2p 1U boxes, at least), and given the mobile Pentium-IIIsH in there and the cooling requirements given the space, I wonder how muchD the wonderful SpeedStep "feature" of the processors would step in toD make them even slower to get a fully populated 3U cage to operate at temperature.  E Still, if all you need is *a* processor (and fast'nuff is fast'nuff),0  these are pretty densely packed.   --  ? <these messages express my own views, not those of my employer>R) Alexis Cousein				Senior Systems Engineerb. SGI Belgium and Luxemburg		al@brussels.sgi.com   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 10:25:39 GMTe. From: "aaron spink" <aaronspink@earthlink.net>  Subject: Re: Blade architectures@ Message-ID: <D0Yn8.784$t01.660@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net>  A "George William Herbert" <gherbert@gw.retro.com> wrote in messagep! news:a7o90i$9q0$1@gw.retro.com...eG > expensive... hundreds of dollars a month or more.  And often, you pay/K > big bucks for a chunk of the space, build a cage, and then *can't expand*sH > because there's no space left in the facility, much less right next to you. >tI Hmm, I seem to remember that Exodus and the like currently have plenty of,G space.  Something about most of their clients going out of bussiness orgE something.  Blades were designed for the period where all the hostingeK facilities were being paid for by funny money and therefore were stuffed to"I the gils.  Nowadays however, you can find hosting at pretty much any colohL and they apparently tend to be a lot more appreciative of your bussiness and0 will even cut you deals on floor and rack space.  I In the old reality where the majority of the cost was the hosting, blades K made sense.  But today where the cost is much less, the extra cost of blade E servers is hard to justify over a COTS 1u server and more rack space.o   Aaron Spinks speaking for myself inc.   ------------------------------  + Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 12:49:59 +0000 (UTC)y! From: Erik Corry <erik@arbat.com>n  Subject: Re: Blade architectures, Message-ID: <a7pqpn$nk8$1@news.net.uni-c.dk>  9 In comp.arch Patrick Schaaf <mailer-daemon@bof.de> wrote:l  B > In the meantime, we are looking at Linux support for running ourA > logical frontend servers for smaller web sites shared on one ofv? > our already existing boxes which have some of their resources C > (CPU or main memory, to a lesser extent disk I/O) idle right now.nB > This leads to all those resource-accounting and fairness issues,G > which happen to start to be addressed at the Linux core. For example,e4 > see http://www.solucorp.qc.ca/miscprj/s_context.hc  @ Isn't this the core of the problem blades solve?  Current OS and> middleware isn't good enough at protecting several web hostingC customers from each other.  There are issues of resource starvationa? (memory, disk, CPU), security issues (people want to be root on B their 'own' server so they can install the software they need) andB managability issues (people want to be able to reboot/repartition/@ upgrade the server they are renting).  All this means that thereA is a price premium for having your 'own' server and points in theyD direction of either VMware-like structures (but with better resourceD allocation management and probably better CPU efficiency) or blades.  6 At least that's what I assume has been the motivation.  > I suppose IBM's several-thousand-Linux-machines-on-a-mainframe" solves a lot of the same problems.   -- p Erik Corry erik@arbat.coms;   Interviewer:  "Real programmers use cat as their editor."sN   Bill Joy:     "That's right! There you go! It is too much trouble to say ed,K                  because cat's smaller and only needs two pages of memory."s   ------------------------------   Date: 26 Mar 2002 13:21:46 GMT+ From: mailer-daemon@bof.de (Patrick Schaaf)-  Subject: Re: Blade architectures7 Message-ID: <3ca075ea$0$12294$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>   # Erik Corry <erik@arbat.com> writes:d  : >In comp.arch Patrick Schaaf <mailer-daemon@bof.de> wrote:  C >> In the meantime, we are looking at Linux support for running ournB >> logical frontend servers for smaller web sites shared on one of@ >> our already existing boxes which have some of their resourcesD >> (CPU or main memory, to a lesser extent disk I/O) idle right now.C >> This leads to all those resource-accounting and fairness issues,nH >> which happen to start to be addressed at the Linux core. For example,5 >> see http://www.solucorp.qc.ca/miscprj/s_context.hc   1 >Isn't this the core of the problem blades solve?c  B It's the problems blade servers are supposed to solve. Whether theA chosen hardware partitioning is really cost effective, remains toiB be seen. Given an already paid for park of underutilized machines,@ it seems prudent to first see whether we can utilize them betterA by software means, instead of investing in loads of new hardware.TB At the same time, I am sure that the real cost is in manageabilityF of a great number of "logically heterogenous" OS instances, regardlessD of their implementation as 1:1 hardware/OS pairs, or virtual servers in larger machines.a  ? >I suppose IBM's several-thousand-Linux-machines-on-a-mainframef# >solves a lot of the same problems.   : At the very high end, for very underutilized servers, yes.: An S/390 is basically a 16 processor SMP system, with each7 processor comparable to a P-III. There's only that much 6 CPU bound jobs you can throw at it before user latency
 gets too big.r   best regards	   Patrickk   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 13:11:56 GMT * From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>  Subject: Re: Blade architecturesC Message-ID: <ws_n8.421176$pN4.28784557@bin8.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>-  7 "Alexis Cousein" <al@brussels.sgi.com> wrote in message@' news:3CA03D96.90404@brussels.sgi.com...a > Bill Todd wrote:G > > Blade advocates may counter by saying that such specialized serversr wouldG5 > > themselves be best implemented as bladed servers,  >dG > No arguments from SGI - at least not provided you have something reall5 > and better than infiniband to tie up the bricks ;).n >s1 > Need a copy of the Origin 300/3000 tech report?i  I Always interested in technical information from a competent source, whichtL SGI certainly is.  As you point out, one of the major potential drawbacks ofL conventional blades is their questionably-tight MP coupling:  I suspect that@ Origin has something significantly better than a commodity-bladeH interconnect in this area, and my objection is not to modularity per se,L just to the particular kind of modularity commodity blade approaches seem to
 be providing.    - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 15:50:04 +0000aT From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <andrew_nospam.remove_this.harrison@sun.com>  Subject: Re: Blade architectures& Message-ID: <3CA098AC.4020309@sun.com>   Alexis Cousein wrote:e   > JF Mezei wrote:o >  >> Bill Todd wrote:o >>D >>> So blades as I currently understand their definition don't look  >>> particularlyE >>> attractive to me compared with alternatives, even if Itanic were f >>> remotely >>>o >>J >> I was under the impression that Compaq's version of Blades was simply aH >> packaging/cabinet product that allowed many wintel pizza boxes to be 
 >> screwedE >> into the same cabinet with an ethernet in the back. The advantage e >> being theH >> reduced floor space and more professional look. (making wintel boxes  >> look like
 >> a PDP-11).h >>! >> Is this a correct perception ?, >> >     < Pretty much, 20 Processors in a tray, ethernet ports out the< back. Relies on a partionable workload ideal for web serving: possibly apps servers. Widely overhyped as the replacement< for everything from 1 to 100 CPU servers by people who don't! know what they are talking about.o    E > Yes. My perception is also that the hardware isn't screamingly fastrH > (compared to 2p 1U boxes, at least), and given the mobile Pentium-IIIsJ > in there and the cooling requirements given the space, I wonder how muchF > the wonderful SpeedStep "feature" of the processors would step in toF > make them even slower to get a fully populated 3U cage to operate at > temperature. >     D Temperature is a big issue which is why most of the blades announcedG are using relatively slow CPU's. Packaging is also an issue, bare boardhD systems which some vendors are proposing are less safe to replace as a FRU than canisterised units.     Regardso   Andrew Harrison    ------------------------------    Date: 26 Mar 2002 06:32:04 -0800 From: wingwong@witty.com (wing)i Subject: C++ objectw= Message-ID: <873e96d6.0203260632.762ea468@posting.google.com>n   Hi,t  @ Is there any command to show the compilation qualifier of an C++ object?c  = What I am trying to do is to check if C++ objects compilationtD qualifier are /nodebug/optimize or /debug/nooptimize for performance test.p   Thanks,n   Wing   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 17:39:26 GMTs0 From: prune@ZAnkh-Morpork.mv.com (Paul Winalski) Subject: Re: C++ objectw9 Message-ID: <3ca0b2eb.1274783802@proxy.news.easynews.com>   ? On 26 Mar 2002 06:32:04 -0800, wingwong@witty.com (wing) wrote:   A >Is there any command to show the compilation qualifier of an C++  >object? >t> >What I am trying to do is to check if C++ objects compilationE >qualifier are /nodebug/optimize or /debug/nooptimize for performancee >test.  E Afraid not.  This information isn't recorded anywhere in a VMS objecto file.d
 ---------- Remove 'Z' to reply by email.r   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 12:47:04 -0300t4 From: "SCI E-mailing" <emailing@calltoaction.com.ar> Subject: Conozca SCI E-mailing: Message-ID: <411089-22002322615474361@calltoaction.com.ar>  ) ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C80* Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII+ Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printablet                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        ) ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8a) Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCIIs+ Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printablem  / <html xmlns:v=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml"i3 xmlns:o=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office">1 xmlns:w=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word"r. xmlns=3D"http://www=2Ew3=2Eorg/TR/REC-html40">   <head>K <meta http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1=w ">. <meta name=3DProgId content=3DWord=2EDocument>4 <meta name=3DGenerator content=3D"Microsoft Word 9">5 <meta name=3DOriginator content=3D"Microsoft Word 9">s; <link rel=3DFile-List href=3D"=2E/83_files/filelist=2Exml">t@ <link rel=3DEdit-Time-Data href=3D"=2E/83_files/editdata=2Emso"> <!--[if !mso]> <style>e" v\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}" o\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}" w\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}) =2E=2Eshape {behavior:url(#default#VML);}i </style> <![endif]--> <title>emaling</title> <!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>  <o:DocumentProperties>c   <o:Author>SCI</o:Author>!   <o:Template>Normal</o:Template>i"   <o:LastAuthor>SCI</o:LastAuthor>   <o:Revision>2</o:Revision>   <o:TotalTime>1</o:TotalTime>-   <o:Created>2002-03-07T21:51:00Z</o:Created>h1   <o:LastSaved>2002-03-07T21:52:00Z</o:LastSaved>    <o:Pages>1</o:Pages>   <o:Words>433</o:Words>#   <o:Characters>2471</o:Characters>d   <o:Company>SCI</o:Company>   <o:Lines>20</o:Lines>     <o:Paragraphs>4</o:Paragraphs>7   <o:CharactersWithSpaces>3034</o:CharactersWithSpaces>o!   <o:Version>9=2E2720</o:Version>i  </o:DocumentProperties> </xml><![endif]--> <style>s <!--  /* Font Definitions */c
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   </table>&   <p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p></o:p></p>   </td>   </tr>  <tr>c4   <td valign=3Dtop style=3D'padding:0in 0in 0in 0in'G   background=3D"http://200=2E69=2E192=2E45/images/110_pixellogo=2Egif">jL   <table border=3D0 cellspacing=3D0 cellpadding=3D0 width=3D"100%" style=3D= 'width:100=2E0%;8    mso-cellspacing:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 0in'>!    <tr style=3D'height:10=2E5pt'>bK     <td width=3D"20%" style=3D'width:20=2E0%;padding:0in 0in 0in 0in;heigh=t t:10=2E5pt'>H     <p class=3DMsoNormal><![if !supportEmptyParas]>&nbsp;<![endif]><spanK     style=3D'font-size:11=2E0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12=2E0pt'><o:p></o:p></= 	 span></p>o	     </td>oK     <td width=3D"63%" style=3D'width:63=2E0%;padding:0in 0in 0in 0in;heigh=g t:10=2E5pt'>K     <p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-line-height-alt:10=2E5pt'><img width=a =3D991#     height=3D88 id=3D"_x0000_i1026"<K     src=3D"http://200=2E69=2E192=2E45/images/110_logoeste=2Egif"><img widt=. h=3D99 height=3D88K     id=3D"_x0000_i1027" src=3D"http://200=2E69=2E192=2E45/images/110_fotop=y rimera=2Egif"><img/     width=3D148 height=3D88 id=3D"_x0000_i1028" L     src=3D"http://200=2E69=2E192=2E45/images/110_fot2a=2Egif"><img width=3D= 152 height=3D88iK     id=3D"_x0000_i1029" src=3D"http://200=2E69=2E192=2E45/images/110_fot3a=  =2Egif"><img/     width=3D142 height=3D88 id=3D"_x0000_i1030"sK     src=3D"http://200=2E69=2E192=2E45/images/110_fot4a=2Egif"><o:p></o:p><=  /p> 	     </td>oK     <td width=3D"17%" style=3D'width:17=2E0%;padding:0in 0in 0in 0in;heigh=t t:10=2E5pt' K     background=3D"http://200=2E69=2E192=2E45/images/110_pixelfoto2=2Egif">=i  H     <p class=3DMsoNormal><![if !supportEmptyParas]>&nbsp;<![endif]><spanK     style=3D'font-size:11=2E0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12=2E0pt'><o:p></o:p></=u	 span></p>d	     </td>S    </tr>
   </table>&   <p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p></o:p></p>   </td>   </tr>  <tr>p9   <td style=3D'background:black;padding:0in 0in 0in 0in'>lL   <table border=3D0 cellspacing=3D0 cellpadding=3D0 width=3D"100%" style=3D= 'width:100=2E0%;8    mso-cellspacing:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 0in'>!    <tr style=3D'height:3=2E75pt'>iI     <td valign=3Dtop style=3D'background:#334653;padding:0in 0in 0in 0in;-     height:3=2E75pt'>-K     <p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-line-height-alt:3=2E75pt'><img width=a =3D1F     height=3D1 id=3D"_x0000_i1031" src=3D"gif\transparente=2Egif"></p>	     </td>p    </tr>!    <tr style=3D'height:52=2E5pt'>bK     <td style=3D'background:#547587;padding:0in 0in 0in 0in;height:52=2E5p=m t'> F     <p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dcenter style=3D'text-align:center'><bL     onstart=3D"MM_openBrWindow('200=2E69=2E19545/flash/flsh=2Easp?formid=3D=0 110=2E','SCI','width=3D600,height=3D350')"><spanK     lang=3DES-MX style=3D'font-family:Arial;color:white;mso-ansi-language:=h
 ES-MX'>SCIB     emailing todo el poder audiovisual en su casilla de correo<br>     <br>K     </span></b><span lang=3DES-MX style=3D'font-size:7=2E5pt;font-family:A=h rial;nK     color:white;mso-ansi-language:ES-MX'>Si no puede visualizar este comer=t cial, K     haga un </span><span style=3D'font-size:7=2E5pt;font-family:Arial;colo=h r:white'><a K     href=3D"http://200=2E69=2E192=2E45/emailtemplates/83=2Ehtm"><span lang=e =3DES-MXI     style=3D'mso-ansi-language:ES-MX'>click aqu=ED</span></a></span><span K     style=3D'font-size:7=2E5pt;font-family:Arial;color:white;mso-ansi-lang=  uage:oK     ES-MX'> </span><span lang=3DES-MX style=3D'mso-ansi-language:ES-MX'><o=s :p></o:p></span></p>	     </td>f    </tr>!    <tr style=3D'height:3=2E75pt'>-I     <td valign=3Dtop style=3D'background:#334653;padding:0in 0in 0in 0in;a     height:3=2E75pt'>:K     <p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-line-height-alt:3=2E75pt'><img borde=. r=3D0tK     width=3D10 height=3D1 id=3D"_x0000_i1032" src=3D"gif\transparente=2Egi=n f"></p>x	     </td>r    </tr>
   </table>K   <p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'display:none;mso-hide:all'><![if !su=s7 pportEmptyParas]>&nbsp;<![endif]><o:p></o:p></span></p> L   <table border=3D0 cellspacing=3D0 cellpadding=3D0 width=3D"100%" style=3D= 'width:100=2E0%;8    mso-cellspacing:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 0in'>#    <tr style=3D'height:132=2E75pt'>e<     <td style=3D'padding:0in 0in 0in 0in;height:132=2E75pt'>K     <p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dcenter style=3D'text-align:center'><![if =a3 !supportEmptyParas]>&nbsp;<![endif]><o:p></o:p></p>g     <div align=3Dcenter>K     <table border=3D0 cellspacing=3D0 cellpadding=3D0 width=3D590 style=3D=s 'width:442=2E5pt;o:      mso-cellspacing:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 0in'>#      <tr style=3D'height:58=2E5pt'>s<       <td style=3D'padding:0in 0in 0in 0in;height:58=2E5pt'>K       <p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DES-MX style=3D'font-size:10=2E0pt;=r font-family:F       Arial;color:white;mso-ansi-language:ES-MX'>A trav=E9s de nuestraK       combinaci=F3n =FAnica de creatividad, permission marketing y una pot=f enteK       plataforma tecnol=F3gica, ayudamos a las empresas a crear exitosas C= 	 ampa=F1as'K       de Marketing Directo on line de alta respuesta para captar clientes =o ym9       profundizar en la relaci=F3n con los mismos=2E <br>aI       Brindamos una completa gama de soluciones que lo llevan &quot;de laeK       estrategia a la acci=F3n&quot; de alcanzar resultados superiores=2E<=s /span><spanlK       lang=3DES-MX style=3D'mso-ansi-language:ES-MX'><o:p></o:p></span></p=M >2       </td>G
      </tr>     </table>
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      </tr>	      <tr>bH       <td width=3D"21%" style=3D'width:21=2E0%;padding:0in 0in 0in 0in'>%       <p class=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp;</p>s       </td>.K       <td width=3D"1%" rowspan=3D2 style=3D'width:1=2E0%;padding:0in 0in 0=p in 0in'>K       <p class=3DMsoNormal><img border=3D0 width=3D1 height=3D60 id=3D"_x0= 
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  0in 0in'>K       <p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dcenter style=3D'text-align:center'><b><=o spanK       lang=3DES-MX style=3D'font-size:10=2E0pt;font-family:Arial;color:whi=  te;tK       mso-ansi-language:ES-MX'>Como cliente de SCI usted puede tomar venta=: ja dep
       <br>9       nuestras soluciones individualmente o de forma <br>aK       combinada dependiendo de sus necesidades espec=EDficas=2E </span></b=  ><spanK       lang=3DES-MX style=3D'mso-ansi-language:ES-MX'><o:p></o:p></span></p=i >g       </td> K       <td width=3D"1%" rowspan=3D2 style=3D'width:1=2E0%;padding:0in 0in 0=r in 0in'>K       <p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dright style=3D'text-align:right'><img b=j	 order=3D0aK       width=3D1 height=3D60 id=3D"_x0000_i1037" src=3D"gif\pixelbco=2Egif"=o ></p>        </td>oH       <td width=3D"22%" style=3D'width:22=2E0%;padding:0in 0in 0in 0in'>%       <p class=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp;</p>t       </td> 
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   </table>   <p class=3DMsoNormal>s</p>   </td>m  </tr> </table>   </div>  K <p class=3DMsoNormal><![if !supportEmptyParas]>&nbsp;<![endif]><o:p></o:p>=e </p>   </div>   </body><   </html>o  + ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8--o   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 11:31:56 +0100r' From: "Jakob Erber" <nospam@nospam.com>=& Subject: Re: creating a mailbox in DCL% Message-ID: <3ca04e1d$1@news.post.ch>W   Hi Stephen,0  L we are working on VMS 7.2-1 Alpha Systems. What I want to do is to contact aK Ada executable, which expects to write to existing Temp Mailboxes, by a DCLaL script. Important would also be, that the mailbox created could be used with  full size (up to 60000b I think)   best regards   Jakob    --I What I publish in this group, is to be understood as my personal opninioncA and must not be interpreted as a official statement of my companyb    E "Hoff Hoffman" <hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam> schrieb im Newsbeitrag - news:CjNn8.1472$fL6.29300@news.cpqcorp.net...aI > In article <3c9f33e5$1@news.post.ch>, "Jakob Erber" <nospam@nospam.com>3 writes:h >0- > :is there a way to create a Mailbox in DCL?0 >0I >   Not directly, but tools that permit this are readily available on thec >   Freeware and elsewhere.D >eI > :So far, we found a possibility in snatching the termination mailbox of  thetC > :spawned subprocess. But isn't there a more straight forward way?t > K >   The correct answer depends highly on what you wish to do, something not"H >   necessarily entirely clear from the particular solution you propose.L >   Please back up, and please tell us the OpenVMS version and platform, andK >   please provide us with the details and the background on the particulareK >   problem you seek to solve.  There may well be an approach here that younK >   have not considered -- but I am not yet able to provide alternatives...a >] >b( >  ---------------------------- #include' <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------:L >       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.com, >  --------------------------- pure personal# opinion ---------------------------31 >    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering1 hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com >i   ------------------------------    Date: 26 Mar 2002 10:02:50 -0600 From: briggs@encompasserve.org& Subject: Re: creating a mailbox in DCL3 Message-ID: <vJ+I4qIJYIpp@eisner.encompasserve.org>f  O In article <3ca04e1d$1@news.post.ch>, "Jakob Erber" <nospam@nospam.com> writes:9N > we are working on VMS 7.2-1 Alpha Systems. What I want to do is to contact aM > Ada executable, which expects to write to existing Temp Mailboxes, by a DCLgN > script. Important would also be, that the mailbox created could be used with" > full size (up to 60000b I think)  J Ada standard input/output (text_io, sequential_io and sequential_mixed_io)F is perfectly capable of writing to _existing_ VMS temporary mailboxes.  A Ada's interface to VMS (starlet) is perfectly capable of creatingM VMS temporary mailboxes.  - It is not clear why a DCL script is involved.-   	John Briggs   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 16:45:46 GMTt4 From: Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@blueyonder.co.uk>& Subject: Re: creating a mailbox in DCL0 Message-ID: <3CA0A469.BE19E98C@blueyonder.co.uk>   Jakob Erber wrote: > 
 > Hi Stephen,d > N > we are working on VMS 7.2-1 Alpha Systems. What I want to do is to contact aM > Ada executable, which expects to write to existing Temp Mailboxes, by a DCLtN > script. Important would also be, that the mailbox created could be used with" > full size (up to 60000b I think) >  > best regards  O So, whats wrong with writing a wrapper for $CREMBX that can be called from DCL?rJ It ain't exactly hard. If you have a problem with using free software I amM sure a consultant can knock one up for you, with a nice CLD driven interface.'> Hint, the parameter to set the maximum mailbox size is maxmsg.  H http://www.openvms.compaq.com:8000/73final/4527/4527pro_017.html#jun_143     Regards     E   -- , tim.llewellyn@blueyonder.co.uk n  F * tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.uk address will cease to work June 2002 *   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 11:36:25 +0100o' From: "Jakob Erber" <nospam@nospam.com>l" Subject: DCL versus EXE invocation% Message-ID: <3ca04f29$1@news.post.ch>h   Hello,  J I try to figure out, what the overhead is, to invocate a VMS executable inL comparison to a dcl script. For a beginning I would asume, that the exe doesK not use additional sharable images. First tests seem to show, that starting L an image takes initially more time, but somehow VMS seems to remember it and/ the time decreases with subsequential attempts.y   What is you opinion?   best regards   JakobS   --I What I publish in this group, is to be understood as my personal opninion<A and must not be interpreted as a official statement of my company-   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 11:52:54 +0100a9 From: Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com>'& Subject: Re: DCL versus EXE invocation' Message-ID: <3CA05306.EBB798E2@aaa.com>3  ; It would take the same amount of page faults, but the later/@ invocations *could* be from the VCC cache, and thus take shorter? time. I'd say that what's happening *after* the invocation, the[C actual *work* done by the EXE (or DCL script) i more interesting...e@ Just a singel "$ now = f$time()" may run faster from DCL then by@ an EXE, but reading and processing a 1 million record file would@ probably run faster from an EXE then by a DCL script, with PERL,8 Phyton, awk and other similar tools someware in between.   Jan-Erik Sderholm.t   Jakob Erber wrote: >  > Hello, > L > I try to figure out, what the overhead is, to invocate a VMS executable inN > comparison to a dcl script. For a beginning I would asume, that the exe doesM > not use additional sharable images. First tests seem to show, that starting5N > an image takes initially more time, but somehow VMS seems to remember it and1 > the time decreases with subsequential attempts.n >  > What is you opinion? >  > best regards >  > Jakob- >  > --K > What I publish in this group, is to be understood as my personal opninion C > and must not be interpreted as a official statement of my companya   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 07:58:55 -0500i1 From: Michael Austin <maustin@firstdbasource.com>i& Subject: Re: DCL versus EXE invocation2 Message-ID: <3CA0708F.E32C0F67@firstdbasource.com>   Jakob Erber wrote: >  > Hello, > L > I try to figure out, what the overhead is, to invocate a VMS executable inN > comparison to a dcl script. For a beginning I would asume, that the exe doesM > not use additional sharable images. First tests seem to show, that starting/N > an image takes initially more time, but somehow VMS seems to remember it and1 > the time decreases with subsequential attempts.e >  > What is you opinion? >  > best regards >  > Jakobn >  > --K > What I publish in this group, is to be understood as my personal opninioneC > and must not be interpreted as a official statement of my companyE  > It depends on whether or not you INSTALL the image.  This will" significantly reduce startup time.  , $INSTALL ADD dev:[dir]file.exe /OPEN/HEADER 1 as well as any shared images this image may call.    -- s Regards,  7 Michael Austin            Registered Linux User #261163S7 First DBA Source, Inc.    http://www.firstdbasource.com< Sr. Consultant 704-947-1089 (Office)t 704-236-4377 (Mobile)D   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 15:55:40 +01002. From: "Thomas H. Pauli" <thomaspauli@arcor.de>& Subject: Re: DCL versus EXE invocation' Message-ID: <3CA08BEC.1020103@arcor.de>_  E Well, DCL may call images again and again and this can place a heavy EI IO-load to the machine, depending on what it is and where it comes from. dH If the VIOCC is too small, then the image-activator would have a lot of F waits resulting in sloooow loads. I think there is no general rule to  determine what's better.   Thomas   Michael Austin wrote:    > Jakob Erber wrote: >  >>Hello, >>L >>I try to figure out, what the overhead is, to invocate a VMS executable inN >>comparison to a dcl script. For a beginning I would asume, that the exe doesM >>not use additional sharable images. First tests seem to show, that starting N >>an image takes initially more time, but somehow VMS seems to remember it and1 >>the time decreases with subsequential attempts.i >> >>What is you opinion? >> >>best regards >> >>Jakobo >> >>--K >>What I publish in this group, is to be understood as my personal opninion C >>and must not be interpreted as a official statement of my companyn >> > @ > It depends on whether or not you INSTALL the image.  This will$ > significantly reduce startup time. > . > $INSTALL ADD dev:[dir]file.exe /OPEN/HEADER 3 > as well as any shared images this image may call.= >  >    ------------------------------    Date: 26 Mar 2002 00:24:34 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com> Subject: Re: DCPI for VMS!- Message-ID: <87eli8wr7h.fsf@prep.synonet.com>l  . Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com> writes:  , > Paul Sture <paul.sture@bluewin.ch> writes:  0D > > You are not kidding. It took me quite a while to figure out whatD > > the product has to offer, and I fear until I download it and use" > > it I will still not be sure...   D > I have been after a VMS kit for DCPI for yonks... Looks like it is2 > STILL not available. T64 and billyspawn only. :(  * Yes it is!!  Thanks for the pointer Paul.   ? DCPI uses the on chip counters to generate statistical profiless> of your code. Neat thing is, that the code nead not be changed; at all, and there is only the collector overhead perturbingb the system.a  < I am going to ask for a tarball of the like for docs though.   -- E< Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.3@                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 10:25:47 -0500t0 From: Paul Anderson <paul.r.anderson@compaq.com> Subject: Re: DCPS version 2.0s; Message-ID: <260320021025475658%paul.r.anderson@compaq.com>s  5 In article <3C9605F1.91D9A34A@videotron.ca>, JF MezeiD% <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote:h  N > Is there a valid reason why it couldn't be downloadable from the vms web/ftpE > site ? Sounds like a perfect candidate for such an endeavour to me.   ? I was going to say that no Compaq OpenVMS layered products were2G available on the Web, but the Web server and browser software (CSWS and<? CSWB) are.  Are there other layered products that are regularly8 available for download?0   Paul   -- 4  Paul Anderson   OpenVMS Engineering    Compaq Computer Corporation    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 08:57:34 +0100 9 From: Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com><8 Subject: Re: DEC C: why does exit(0) really exit with 1?' Message-ID: <3CA029EE.582A1040@aaa.com>>  , Why bother what *value* is returned at all ?  . If the C-app exits with exit(0), which from an: C perspective is concidered to be "success" or "no error",; I'd expect my "ON ERROR THEN..." and "IF $SEVERITY THEN..."  also to work as expected.i  A The programmer says "Yes ! It worked", and that's what I'd whan't0 DCL to think also...  ; Checking for a specific exit values of 0 or 1 (or whatever)d5 should be concidered bad DCL programming style, IMHO.a  < If some language xyz whould use exit(-100) as the "standard"@ for "no error", I'd expect the xyz-compiler for VMS to make thatF also look as "success" in DCL. And the same thing for the xyz-compiler$ for any other operating environment.   Jan-Erik Sderholm.x   Michael Zarlenga wrote:n > @ > Doc.Cypher <Use-Author-Supplied-Address-Header@[127.1]> wrote:M > : To be honest, I can't quite see what all the fuss here is about. Any .EXEn > B > The fuss is a programmer types "exit(x);" and DCL sees x, unless. > x was 0, then exit silently passes 1 to DCL. > E > This is the kind of malarky I[ve come to expect from companies like ! > Microsoft/Windows, not Deq/VMS.l >  > -- > -- Mike Zarlenga > @ >    "Now, throughout history, whenever people get wood, they'll) >     think of Trojans!"  - Ned Flanders.0   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 08:43:30 +0100D2 From: martin@radiogaga.harz.de (Martin Vorlaender)8 Subject: Re: DEC C: why does exit(0) really exit with 1?; Message-ID: <3ca026a2.524144494f47414741@radiogaga.harz.de>   0 Michael Zarlenga (zarlenga@conan.ids.net) wrote:@ > Doc.Cypher <Use-Author-Supplied-Address-Header@[127.1]> wrote:D > : To be honest, I can't quite see what all the fuss here is about. >E+ > The fuss is a programmer types "exit(x);"'  A In quite a few cases, a _Unix_ programmer types "exit(0)" or evenzA "exit(EXIT_SUCCESS)", and he means "everything's fine". And a guyuA porting this to VMS doesn't want to change every single occuranceyD of exit() to cope with this, and is grateful for the RTL translating it to SS$_NORMAL.M   > and DCL sees x, unless. > x was 0, then exit silently passes 1 to DCL. >bE > This is the kind of malarky I[ve come to expect from companies likea! > Microsoft/Windows, not Deq/VMS.   G This is the kind of stuff I like when porting *ix programs. I regularly  #define _POSIX_EXIT.   cu,d   Martin -- iF   OpenVMS:                | Martin Vorlaender  |  VMS & WNT programmer3    The operating system   | work: mv@pdv-systeme.deaF    God runs the           |   http://www.pdv-systeme.de/users/martinv/:    earth simulation on.   | home: martin@radiogaga.harz.de   ------------------------------    Date: 26 Mar 2002 07:53:03 -0600- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)i8 Subject: Re: DEC C: why does exit(0) really exit with 1?3 Message-ID: <9L2XAwfYLtRR@eisner.encompasserve.org>l  a In article <u9urbt4m776u63@corp.supernews.com>, Michael Zarlenga <zarlenga@conan.ids.net> writes:3 > > > But since exit() silently changes 0 to 1 those values cannot > be passed back to DCL.  H    Sure they can.  You just have to use the correct function, instead of
    exit().   ------------------------------    Date: 26 Mar 2002 07:47:55 -0600- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)p8 Subject: Re: DEC C: why does exit(0) really exit with 1?3 Message-ID: <0Jm9dVbkGUEt@eisner.encompasserve.org>o  _ In article <a7ne7i$bvc$1@info.cs.uofs.edu>, bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes:E > D > I would posit that the statement made in K&R on page 154 of "The C, > Programming  Language" suggests otherwise. >  :> >         "By convention, a return value of 0 signals that all? >          is well, and various non-zero values signal abnormalt >          situations."> >  r  E    Wouldn't be the first time K&R disagreed with, or ignored the ANSI;    standard.   ------------------------------    Date: 26 Mar 2002 07:51:43 -0600- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)"8 Subject: Re: DEC C: why does exit(0) really exit with 1?3 Message-ID: <SpzCDh$qDMbU@eisner.encompasserve.org>e  _ In article <a7njrb$k6o$1@info.cs.uofs.edu>, bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes:n > D > Nope. never have.  But then, you have obviously never programmed a > Pr1me.  H That wan't the point.  The point was some systems do have valid poniters of value 0.b   > D > |>                                                        but if I > |>  * > |>       count = sscanf(string,"%d",&i); > |> gM > |>    and the count comes back 0 I consider it an error, even though sscanfc > |>    doesn't. > ? > Two errors in this logic.  The first and more obvious is that/) > sscanf() doesn't ever return a pointer.h  H I didn't say it did.  I didn't even try to imply it did when I chose the- variable name count.  sscanf returns a count.3   > B > And second, a return value of zero does not signify a failure ofE > the function call, but instead a failure of the user provided input< > data.   H A failure is a failure.  I admitted sscanf doesn't consider it a failureG (sscanf returns EOF on failure), but the program needs to deal with thes lack of a useable value in i.<   ------------------------------    Date: 26 Mar 2002 07:55:43 -0600- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)i8 Subject: Re: DEC C: why does exit(0) really exit with 1?3 Message-ID: <094439iMrYQf@eisner.encompasserve.org>   _ In article <a7nrsg$nqj$1@info.cs.uofs.edu>, bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes:t > ? > What more authoritative source is there for the  C Language??e  C    Where K&R disagrees with or ignores the ANSI standard, I'll takeiC    ANSI.  Just because K&R invented the language does not mean theym#    still are the definitive source.t  G    And yes, I have found places in K&R's ANSI C book where they ignoreduG    the standard.  Some of their examples won't work under DEC C withouth3    help and the issue is addresses by the standard.c   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 14:57:27 -0000H/ From: Michael Zarlenga <zarlenga@conan.ids.net>i8 Subject: Re: DEC C: why does exit(0) really exit with 1?/ Message-ID: <ua132ndhsue61d@corp.supernews.com>   3 Martin Vorlaender <martin@radiogaga.harz.de> wrote: 2 : Michael Zarlenga (zarlenga@conan.ids.net) wrote:A :> Doc.Cypher <Use-Author-Supplied-Address-Header@[127.1]> wrote:cE :> : To be honest, I can't quite see what all the fuss here is about.n :>, :> The fuss is a programmer types "exit(x);"  C : In quite a few cases, a _Unix_ programmer types "exit(0)" or even C : "exit(EXIT_SUCCESS)", and he means "everything's fine". And a guy C : porting this to VMS doesn't want to change every single occurance F : of exit() to cope with this, and is grateful for the RTL translating : it to SS$_NORMAL.l  C A header file with the translation buried inside would handle that.   : You want Unix-style translations, include the header file.   -- a -- Mike Zarlenga  >    "Now, throughout history, whenever people get wood, they'll'     think of Trojans!"  - Ned Flanders.    ------------------------------   Date: 26 Mar 2002 15:20:43 GMT1 From: bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)o8 Subject: Re: DEC C: why does exit(0) really exit with 1?, Message-ID: <a7q3kb$1tol$1@info.cs.uofs.edu>  3 In article <0Jm9dVbkGUEt@eisner.encompasserve.org>,a0  koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes:b |> In article <a7ne7i$bvc$1@info.cs.uofs.edu>, bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes: |> > LG |> > I would posit that the statement made in K&R on page 154 of "The C0/ |> > Programming  Language" suggests otherwise.m |> >  A |> >         "By convention, a return value of 0 signals that all B |> >          is well, and various non-zero values signal abnormal |> >          situations." |> >   |>  H |>    Wouldn't be the first time K&R disagreed with, or ignored the ANSI |>    standard.0  I Don't you have that backwards??  K&R wrote that more than a decade beforei any ANSI standard.   bill   -- oJ Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   -   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 16:27:38 GMTeL From: winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU ("Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr")8 Subject: Re: DEC C: why does exit(0) really exit with 1?8 Message-ID: <00A0B828.8D26966B@SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>  c In article <0Jm9dVbkGUEt@eisner.encompasserve.org>, koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes: ` >In article <a7ne7i$bvc$1@info.cs.uofs.edu>, bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes: >>  E >> I would posit that the statement made in K&R on page 154 of "The C - >> Programming  Language" suggests otherwise.c >>  ? >>         "By convention, a return value of 0 signals that alln@ >>          is well, and various non-zero values signal abnormal >>          situations." >>   > F >   Wouldn't be the first time K&R disagreed with, or ignored the ANSI
 >   standard.m >.  M I think YM "pre-dated"; the ANSI standard was a long (and controversial) timel after the first edition of K&R.i   -- Alan@    O ===============================================================================-0  Alan Winston --- WINSTON@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDUM  Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056gM  Physical mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 69, PO BOX 4349, STANFORD, CA  94309-0210rO ===============================================================================n   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 17:09:55 GMT % From: jlsue <jlsuexxxz@insightbb.com> ( Subject: Re: DECterm X client, ACCPORNAM8 Message-ID: <eoa1au07snfi6m8dgonrt8ifv87i64f0or@4ax.com>  / One idea from all this has come to me just now.?D It's not directly from X-windows, but if you have the TCP/IP packageF set to log all connection requests, you can also scan the operator.logD and tcp/ip logs for each of those (telnet, rexec, etc.) to check for7 connection requests in-and-around that same time frame.=   Does this help?e  E On Tue, 26 Mar 2002 02:11:44 GMT, hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (HoffD Hoffman) wrote:8  q >In article <a7fso4$2uv$1@news8.svr.pol.co.uk>, "Malcolm MacArthur" <malcolmix@neverness.freeserve.co.uk> writes:hO >:OK, as you rightly point out, a DECterm is connected 'back-to-front' comparediN >:to a normal terminal device. But, just because the connection was initiated L >:the other way around doesn't make the location it's displayed AT any less  >:useful...  >sK >  I've learned that ambiguity can be, well, a problem -- again, ACCPORNAM  J >  is usually the storage for the incoming network connection, so (unless K >  the DECterm is operating detached, of course) it really isn't available  N >  for this use.   You want the outgoing or the X Windows display connection, J >  and you specifically want this value from within the DECterm X Windows L >  client application -- and you want this value available to auditing, too. >aL >:Umm, yeah, right. So how does an ordinary unprivileged user know that, forJ >:instance, FTA23: is using DECwindows pseudodevice WSA3: for its display? > C >  The user's application display is FTA23:, of course.  Not WSA3:. G >  If the user has a prefered display, the application accesses it via e >  SET DISPLAY callbacks.f > K >  Assuming you cannot use CREATE/TERMINAL/DEFINE or the equivilent DECterm I >  API call (and a cooperating user), traversing back to the workstation LM >  device specification used by the X Windows client (DECterm and the DECtermaK >  controller, in this case) does definitely look to be "interesting".  YouiL >  are correct.  Retrieving this is an interesting idea, but the only way I J >  can see out of this -- and to return this information to the DECwindowsJ >  client application -- involves rummaging around inside the DECterm and L >  particularly inside the DECterm controller code, or (for the more generic1 >  approach) inside xlib and the X Windows layer.  >eH >  An alternative that is possible involves the use of an SDA extension.I >  (This still means rummaging through the kernel, of course.  This wouldoI >  simply be a somewhat "cleaner" approach to that end...)  And one otherLI >  approach involves rummaging around inside the X Windows code; a searchdG >  for information that might be available within the xlib and related.aI >  (I've checked decw$utils: and do not see anything immediately useful.)e >  1 >SO >:There is another point in all this as well. Say someone tries to hack into my4M >:system, and he is using X Windows. Now, he logs on, does a CREATE /TERMINALa? >:/DETACHED /NOLOGGED_IN, and logs in as (for instance) SYSTEM.oK >:days later, I notice something unusual happened. So I go through my audit8K >:records and discover that SYSTEM logged on to terminal FTA23:. Now, from cM >:this historical perspective, how do I find out where pseudoterminal FTA23: t >:was initiated from?V >CJ >  Ok, this is definitely an "uncooperative" user.  Pseudoterminal FTA23: F >  was originally created on the node that got hacked, of course, so II >  expect you really want to know where the X Windows display for FTA23:  7 >  is going and, well, that (again) gets "interesting"., > J >:So, as a compromise, I would settle for a method of auditing creation of> >:pseudoterminals and DECwindows WSAnn: display pseudodevices. >gM >  If network connection auditing, device creation, or process or subprocess iM >  creation auditing is insufficient, you will want to make a formal request eJ >  for this auditing capability -- given the cracker had enough access to I >  create a DECterm, there are also other file, audit, and login-related s3 >  security considerations obviously involved here.f >a >tO > ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------aO >      For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.com    ]O > --------------------------- pure personal opinion --------------------------- M >   Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   1 Not speaking for anyone, certainly not DEC/CompaqD- (get rid of the xxxz in my address to e-mail)s   ------------------------------  + Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 09:16:13 +0000 (UTC)a< From: "Christian Sperandio" <christian.sperandio@cegedim.fr>  Subject: Dynamic function (in C)H Message-ID: <0200597ae47bac6b7d580ce3a60e1e71.76015@mygate.mailgate.org>   Hi, E I program with C on VM OS, and I would like call an external functionC& from my program (like DLL on Windows).H I read in documentation I must use the compiler option #pragma  linkage.E It works for one function, but if I want call two functions I have toc" make two differents sources like :  	 Source1.Ch)   #pragma  linkage  (MyFunc1, FETCHABLE) r  	 Source2.C )   #pragma  linkage  (MyFunc2, FETCHABLE) a  1 Can I put this two functions in the same source ?o   Thanks     --  8 Posted via Mailgate.ORG Server - http://www.Mailgate.ORG   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 06:52:08 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>0$ Subject: Re: Dynamic function (in C), Message-ID: <3CA060E7.5AA1D593@videotron.ca>   Christian Sperandio wrote: >  > Hi, G > I program with C on VM OS, and I would like call an external function ( > from my program (like DLL on Windows).  L 1- you must create a shareable image ( DLL) which has the routines you want.2 $link/notraceback/shared  myfile.obj,sys$input/opt UNIVERSAL = ROUTINE1 UNIVERSAL = ROUTINE2 $!   this will create myfile.exeeJ you also create your second file with myfile2.exe with the same UNIVERSAL=    When you link your program, you 7 $define myshareable_image $disk1:[directory]myfile1.exeo  $link mymain.obj,sys$input/share myshareable_image/shareb $!  N And when you run your program, you define myshareable_image to point to either myfile1 or myfile2.     	 ***OR****i  N You create the shareable image the same way, but in your main program, insteadM of calling routine1 and routine2, you use LIB$FIND_IMAGE_SYMBOL, supplying itaM the file name and routine name, and it returns a pointer to the routine whichmM you can then call. This allows your program to duynamically choose which file2 to open.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 12:49:07 +0100p9 From: Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com>e$ Subject: Re: Dynamic function (in C)' Message-ID: <3CA06033.7C2E6558@aaa.com>E  - The original poster sad "in VM" not "on VMS".h3 VM as in "Virtual Machine", runs on IBM mainframes.I* Could just be an "S" lacking, of course...	 Jan-Erik.i   JF Mezei wrote:0 >  > Christian Sperandio wrote: > >r > > Hi,LI > > I program with C on VM OS, and I would like call an external function * > > from my program (like DLL on Windows). > N > 1- you must create a shareable image ( DLL) which has the routines you want.4 > $link/notraceback/shared  myfile.obj,sys$input/opt > UNIVERSAL = ROUTINE1 > UNIVERSAL = ROUTINE2 > $! >e   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 09:58:58 +0100 - From: Jouk Jansen <joukj@hrem.stm.tudelft.nl>f> Subject: Re: Flash plugin now available for Mozilla on OpenVMS3 Message-ID: <3CA04662.4391AB7E@hrem.stm.tudelft.nl>    Mark Berryman wrote: > G > I have ported Olivier Debon's open source flash player to VMS.  WhilelG > this player does not do all things Flash, it certainly does more than D > VMS currently has.  It currently does most of Flash 4 but does not/ > support the actionscript features of Flash 5.- > J > I am currently trying to add support for sound and, once that is done, IH > will put the full source kit up.  Until then, anyone who would like to# > try the plugin can fetch it from:3 > , > ftp://mvb.saic.com/extra/libflashplugin.so > H > Just copy the LIBFLASHPLUGIN.SO file into SYS$COMMON:[MOZILLA.PLUGINS]J > (or into the [.PLUGINS] directory of wherever you installed Mozilla) and > restart your browser.b >  > Feedback welcome.  >  > Mark Berrymant > Mark.Berryman@Mvb.Saic.Com > I > P.S.  As I mentioned earlier, there will be some flash sites that don'taI >       work with this plugin, but if you find any that actually cause itn1 >       to generate an error, please let me know.t4 Great work, Please get me informed on your progress.  6 I tried your plugin on the web-site of the Dutch operaB http://www.dno.nl ). It has some problem with the colourmaps there4 All the movies shown seem to have the wrong colours.                   Jouk   ------------------------------   Date: 26 Mar 2002 10:01:38 GMT3 From: gartmann@immunbio.mpg.de (Christoph Gartmann)p> Subject: Re: Flash plugin now available for Mozilla on OpenVMS0 Message-ID: <a7pgu2$t10$2@n.ruf.uni-freiburg.de>  c In article <3CA04662.4391AB7E@hrem.stm.tudelft.nl>, Jouk Jansen <joukj@hrem.stm.tudelft.nl> writes:  >Mark Berryman wrote:a >> rH >> I have ported Olivier Debon's open source flash player to VMS.  WhileH >> this player does not do all things Flash, it certainly does more thanE >> VMS currently has.  It currently does most of Flash 4 but does notm0 >> support the actionscript features of Flash 5. >> nK >> I am currently trying to add support for sound and, once that is done, I I >> will put the full source kit up.  Until then, anyone who would like to.$ >> try the plugin can fetch it from: >>  - >> ftp://mvb.saic.com/extra/libflashplugin.so  >> -I >> Just copy the LIBFLASHPLUGIN.SO file into SYS$COMMON:[MOZILLA.PLUGINS]@K >> (or into the [.PLUGINS] directory of wherever you installed Mozilla) and  >> restart your browser. >> d >> Feedback welcome. >> e >> Mark Berryman >> Mark.Berryman@Mvb.Saic.Comd >> iJ >> P.S.  As I mentioned earlier, there will be some flash sites that don'tJ >>       work with this plugin, but if you find any that actually cause it2 >>       to generate an error, please let me know.5 >Great work, Please get me informed on your progress.l >n7 >I tried your plugin on the web-site of the Dutch operatC >http://www.dno.nl ). It has some problem with the colourmaps there 5 >All the movies shown seem to have the wrong colours.-   Here they look ok...   Regards,    Christoph Gartmannh  H -- --------------------------------------------------------------------+H | Max-Planck-Institut fuer      Phone   : +49-761-5108-464   Fax: -452 |H | Immunbiologie                                                        |H | Postfach 1169                 Internet: gartmann@immunbio.mpg.de     |H | D-79011  Freiburg, Germany                                           |H +--------- http://www.immunbio.mpg.de/home/english/menue.html ---------+   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 10:58:03 GMTc' From: Colin Blake <colin@theblakes.com>  Subject: Re: How to fork() ?- Message-ID: <3CA05439.325686B6@theblakes.com>   K As long as you're not getting to the "exec failed" statement, you should besG getting a process entry in your accounting log. At least that's been my. experience.e  J Make sure the set_child_standard_streams() call is returning the number ofM streams you believe you're setting, and double check that the exec arg points & to a valid executable or command file.   ------------------------------  + Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 02:54:14 -0800 (PST)e. From: Fabio Cardoso <fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br>4 Subject: Re: How to know if EDS hires for VMS Eng. ?@ Message-ID: <20020326105414.94325.qmail@web20205.mail.yahoo.com>  
 It is true ! e  , A few weeks ago I contacted a headhunter and- she said that the great demand for developersC* here in Brazil is for: Java, C++ and Cobol    * Java : it is new here. No much developers.  3 C++:  If we had C++ developers, we should be India.i  6 Cobol: Since I began to work, I know Cobol developers.    ) Visual Basic: I believe almost 70% of then1 develpers market. The rest is distributed betweent2 the Borland and Powersoft people, and the fever of
 Web (ASP,XML)h   Regardsd      2 --- Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@free.fr> wrote: > ../..y > Working storage section. > 	01 subject pic x(80). > 	01 text    pic x(80).! > 	01 answer  pic x value "Y","N"r > Procedure division.  > Main.n > 	move subject to textb > 	display text  > 	accept answer* > 	if answer = "Y" then goto SpitBrook Rd. > 3 > (no kiddin' my next mission may be "return to then > Cobol future"...:-)C >  > D. > -- ) >  l >xF ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > MORANDI Consultants  -  WEB:- > http://Didier.Morandi.Free.fr/index_us.htmln2 > Pflanzschulstrasse 53, 8004 Zurich, Switzerland. > GSM: +41 (0)79 705 4670o2 > 19, chemin de la Butte, 31400 Toulouse, France.  > GSM: +33 (0)6 7983 6418> > 4 > Disaster Recovery Plans, Computer Security Audits, > DEC OpenVMS Expertisep0 > On parle franais Man spricht Deutsch se habla > Castellano English spokent     =====" ========================== Fbio dos Santos Cardoso OpenVMS System Manager Rio de Janeiro - Brazil  fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br ==========================  2 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!?4 Yahoo! Movies - coverage of the 74th Academy Awards http://movies.yahoo.com/   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 17:00:19 +0000eT From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <andrew_nospam.remove_this.harrison@sun.com>P Subject: Re: HP's viewpoint on Linux, was: Re: Sun eating major helping of Linux& Message-ID: <3CA0A923.2050606@sun.com>  , Soory I should have pointed you to this page  8 http://www.sun.com/io_technologies/storagesolutions.html  6 This lists the external desktop type removable storage7 products that work with Solaris. The SunBlade 100, 1000s and 2000 have USB ports BTW.   Regardsn Andrew Harrison    GreyCloud wrote:   > Robert Deininger wrote:e >  > ; >>In article <u9kairbebmln92@corp.supernews.com>, GreyCloudo >><mist@cumulus.com> wrote:  >> >>- >>>Another question: why did they have to use J >>>proprietary ram simm packs instead of the off-the-shelf type of simms?? >>>  >>>uG >>I don't know anything about that particular Sun system, but the usualtH >>reason for using "nonstandard" memory is to improve performance and/orG >>reliability.  Or occasionally to pack more memory into limited space.  >> >>M >>>So far, the sales desk down in San Jose can't seem to answer any technicall >>>cC >>             ^^^^^                                               y >>             ^^^^^^^^^ >> >> >>>questions about anything. >>>s >>And you are surprised? >> >> > J > I should have included that they were transferring me to an engineer... 5 > always was a <plonk>.  They make it very difficult.u >  > + >>>They say they can't help me and then its? >>><plonk>.  >>>B6 >>Are you sure you didn't call Compaq by mistake?  :-) >> >> > D > Hehehe... no, but is there a trend of incompetence starting?  :-)) >  > ' >>>Or am I talking to the wrong people?, >>>@J >>Likely.  These days, if you want competent technical sales folks in mostK >>any company, you have to jump through hoops, and show them your checkbookuJ >>first.  The checkbook needs to be the wide kind, to allow filling in big
 >>numbers. >> >> > L > Ah, so there is their weakest link.  No wonder they don't sell as many as 
 > they could.  >  >  >>>I wanted to buy a sun but0 >>>your people have made this almost impossible. >>> = >>Aw, c'mon.  Buy an alpha system instead.  It sounds easier.o >> >> > 9 > For $1000??  Besides I've still got my vaxstation 4000.=J > I'm looking into a new area that sun opened up ... interval mathematics. >  >  >    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 16:00:30 +0000 T From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <andrew_nospam.remove_this.harrison@sun.com>O Subject: Re: HP's viewpoint on Linux, was: Re: Sun eating major helping ofLinux=& Message-ID: <3CA09B1E.3000805@sun.com>   jlsue wrote:  G > On Fri, 22 Mar 2002 15:44:16 +0000, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancyz5 > <andrew_nospam.remove_this.harrison@sun.com> wrote:N >  >  > A >>One attribute of technical people is generally an understandingl> >>of what they indevidually know and don't know. This facility< >>seems to have deserted you, it seems to have happened soon >>after the merger.  >> > 0 > My vote for the pot-and-kettle award for 2002. >     1 You are nominating yourself obviously. Or had you 0 forgotten your long and dishonourable history of, not having much of a clue in a public forum.    0 I had always assumed you performed some nameless0 function in Compaq Marketing along with Kerry my7 absolute favourite Compaq Marketing, are you suggesting  that this isn't the case ??y   Regards  Andrew Harrisone   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 11:52:50 -0500c+ From: "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@Compaq.com>eO Subject: RE: HP's viewpoint on Linux, was: Re: Sun eating major helping ofLinux T Message-ID: <BE56C50EA024184DAF48F0B9A47F5CF4016CEC67@kaoexc01.americas.cpqcorp.net>   Andrew,h  ' Welcome back .. I missed your feedback.o   :-) :-)s   RegardsD  
 Kerry Main Senior Consultantc Compaq Canada Corp.t Professional Servicesi Voice: 613-592-4660  Fax  :  819-772-7036 Email: Kerry.Main@Compaq.com     -----Original Message-----' From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy 6 [mailto:andrew_nospam.remove_this.harrison@sun.com]=20 Sent: March 26, 2002 11:01 AMy To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.ComoG Subject: Re: HP's viewpoint on Linux, was: Re: Sun eating major helpingw ofLinuxe         jlsue wrote:  J > On Fri, 22 Mar 2002 15:44:16 +0000, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy=205 > <andrew_nospam.remove_this.harrison@sun.com> wrote:i >=20 >=20 >=20G >>One attribute of technical people is generally an understanding of=20/G >>what they indevidually know and don't know. This facility seems to=20gE >>have deserted you, it seems to have happened soon after the merger.s >> >=200 > My vote for the pot-and-kettle award for 2002. >=20    1 You are nominating yourself obviously. Or had youg0 forgotten your long and dishonourable history of, not having much of a clue in a public forum.    0 I had always assumed you performed some nameless0 function in Compaq Marketing along with Kerry my7 absolute favourite Compaq Marketing, are you suggestingn that this isn't the case ??o   Regards  Andrew Harrison    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 16:38:38 +0000hT From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <andrew_nospam.remove_this.harrison@sun.com>O Subject: Re: HP's viewpoint on Linux, was: Re: Sun eating major helping ofLinuxr& Message-ID: <3CA0A40E.7070809@sun.com>   Fred Kleinsorge wrote:  4 > Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy wrote in message > <3C9F5B5A.4080804@sun.com>...e >  >> >>Fred Kleinsorge wrote: >> >>5 >>>Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy wrote in messageu  >>><3C9B5150.7040403@sun.com>... >>>p >>>i@ >>>>As I said if what you have spouted in this thread passes for0 >>>>technical argument then call me a sales guy. >>>> >>>> >>>>L >>>Andy, I've always said you were a putz posing as someone technical.  YourH >>>knowledge is gleaned from the latest marketing flyers and surfing the >>>n > web. > L >>>You've passed up every opportunity to trot out your qualifications.  Have# >>>you ever written a line of code?t >>>a >>>2 >>F >>Sorry Freddy, among other things I wrote Sun's HA Clustering ProductI >>called HA-RAID not too snappy a name I know but it worked. It pre-datedt< >>SunCluster. Its still in use running on SunOS and Solaris. >>E >>But hell anyone can write fiction in their CV. I generally find itsaH >>better not to place to much faith in them. I have met plenty of peopleA >>with wonderfull CV's who have turned out to be a total waste ofA >>space. >> >> > E > Yes, but it gives an interesting baseline, and something to verify.s    > Really, you apparently have a "technical CV" but you have been> doing your utmost post merger announcment to expunge all signs; of having any sort of technical background from your posts.,     >  > E >>It depends what you call "industry" and it depends what you mean byoH >>performance. Most commercial customers don't care a S**T about SPECint >>or SPECfp performance, >> > J > Wow.  Tell the to Bill Todd.  After all, even you want people to believe> > that IA64 will fail because it doesn't measure up in SpecInt >  > C >>As for IA64 and Power, no one knows what IA64 will do performanceiB >>wise the only thing we do know is that Itanium isn't competitive? >>and clock rates for its sucessor are getting lower so you ares/ >>declaring victory way to early on that front.2 >> >> > 8 > <lots of other Spec related rant about Power4 removed> > G > Hmmm.  Customers don't care about Spec numbers, but IA64 is a failure5@ > because it doesn't meet a Spec number.  Hmmm.  What were those' > pre-ticked-up-compiler Sparc numbers?  >     < Freddy boy, in a tactic that could have been lifted from theA Alpha sales handbook the only IA64 benchmarks currently availableg= are SPECint and SPECfp, we don't have anything else to go on.   : What are we to assume when IA64 tanks on SPECint and there: are no other integer benchmark results available. Could it> be that the compiler writers at HP and Intel never ran SPECint; through their compilers hence the poor performance but theya> decided to publish anyway. Or could it be that SPECint was the: major benchmark suite targetted by the same teams but that> performance just wasn't what they were expecting, your choice.  < "pre-ticked-up-compiler Sparc numbers". Do you need a lesson< in IA64 and its dependance on optimising compilers to obtain= good throughput. I hope not though it isn't obvious from yourm	 postings.   H Many people think that IA64 will not perform well running badly written B code because of its dependance on compilers to bundle instructions< in an optimal way. But you Freddy boy are still happy to lob= stones even though IA64 is the glass house you have chosen tow
 reside in.         >  >  >  >    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 13:17:59 -0500[- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>pO Subject: Re: HP's viewpoint on Linux, was: Re: Sun eating major helping ofLinuxn, Message-ID: <3CA0BB35.B3D073D0@videotron.ca>  ( Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy wrote:2 > I had always assumed you performed some nameless2 > function in Compaq Marketing along with Kerry my9 > absolute favourite Compaq Marketing, are you suggesting  > that this isn't the case ??s    I Hey Andrew, don't go against the 2 or 3 Compaq employees who volunteer tooN market VMS, against their employer's wishes. It is the only VMS marketing that
 exists... :-)a   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 01:12:29 -0500a5 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com>DO Subject: Re: HP's viewpoint on Linux, was: Re: Sun eating major helping ofLinux 3 Message-ID: <qP2o8.1523$fL6.29568@news.cpqcorp.net>   J Call me "Freddy Boy" one more time, and I may need to fly to the UK for an international incident.r  ) Go find something useful to do, Sun wipe.     # "Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy"f= <andrew_nospam.remove_this.harrison@sun.com> wrote in messagey  news:3CA0A40E.7070809@sun.com... >L >h > Fred Kleinsorge wrote: >.6 > > Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy wrote in message! > > <3C9F5B5A.4080804@sun.com>...  > >T > >> > >>Fred Kleinsorge wrote: > >> > >>7 > >>>Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy wrote in messageJ" > >>><3C9B5150.7040403@sun.com>... > >>>: > >>>aB > >>>>As I said if what you have spouted in this thread passes for2 > >>>>technical argument then call me a sales guy. > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>H > >>>Andy, I've always said you were a putz posing as someone technical. YourJ > >>>knowledge is gleaned from the latest marketing flyers and surfing the > >>>e > > web. > >oH > >>>You've passed up every opportunity to trot out your qualifications. Have% > >>>you ever written a line of code?r > >>>a > >>>e > >>H > >>Sorry Freddy, among other things I wrote Sun's HA Clustering ProductK > >>called HA-RAID not too snappy a name I know but it worked. It pre-datedt> > >>SunCluster. Its still in use running on SunOS and Solaris. > >>G > >>But hell anyone can write fiction in their CV. I generally find itseJ > >>better not to place to much faith in them. I have met plenty of peopleC > >>with wonderfull CV's who have turned out to be a total waste of.
 > >>space. > >> > >> > >rG > > Yes, but it gives an interesting baseline, and something to verify.t >  > @ > Really, you apparently have a "technical CV" but you have been@ > doing your utmost post merger announcment to expunge all signs= > of having any sort of technical background from your posts.a >t >/ > >d > > G > >>It depends what you call "industry" and it depends what you mean byeJ > >>performance. Most commercial customers don't care a S**T about SPECint > >>or SPECfp performance, > >> > >8L > > Wow.  Tell the to Bill Todd.  After all, even you want people to believe@ > > that IA64 will fail because it doesn't measure up in SpecInt > >@ > >.E > >>As for IA64 and Power, no one knows what IA64 will do performance D > >>wise the only thing we do know is that Itanium isn't competitiveA > >>and clock rates for its sucessor are getting lower so you are 1 > >>declaring victory way to early on that front.g > >> > >> > >i: > > <lots of other Spec related rant about Power4 removed> > > I > > Hmmm.  Customers don't care about Spec numbers, but IA64 is a failure B > > because it doesn't meet a Spec number.  Hmmm.  What were those) > > pre-ticked-up-compiler Sparc numbers?  > >p >U >l> > Freddy boy, in a tactic that could have been lifted from theC > Alpha sales handbook the only IA64 benchmarks currently available>? > are SPECint and SPECfp, we don't have anything else to go on.U >S< > What are we to assume when IA64 tanks on SPECint and there< > are no other integer benchmark results available. Could it@ > be that the compiler writers at HP and Intel never ran SPECint= > through their compilers hence the poor performance but theys@ > decided to publish anyway. Or could it be that SPECint was the< > major benchmark suite targetted by the same teams but that@ > performance just wasn't what they were expecting, your choice. >e> > "pre-ticked-up-compiler Sparc numbers". Do you need a lesson> > in IA64 and its dependance on optimising compilers to obtain? > good throughput. I hope not though it isn't obvious from your  > postings.o >oI > Many people think that IA64 will not perform well running badly written-D > code because of its dependance on compilers to bundle instructions> > in an optimal way. But you Freddy boy are still happy to lob? > stones even though IA64 is the glass house you have chosen toh > reside in. >  >  >e >t > >t > >i > >i > >. >    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 01:14:06 -0500 5 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com>mO Subject: Re: HP's viewpoint on Linux, was: Re: Sun eating major helping ofLinux13 Message-ID: <WQ2o8.1524$fL6.29895@news.cpqcorp.net>    We did?R    6 "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@Compaq.com> wrote in messageL news:BE56C50EA024184DAF48F0B9A47F5CF4016CEC67@kaoexc01.americas.cpqcorp.net. .. Andrew,t  ' Welcome back .. I missed your feedback.    :-) :-)a   Regards.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 13:53:20 -0500i+ From: "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@Compaq.com>sO Subject: RE: HP's viewpoint on Linux, was: Re: Sun eating major helping ofLinuxaT Message-ID: <BE56C50EA024184DAF48F0B9A47F5CF4016CEC6B@kaoexc01.americas.cpqcorp.net>   >>> We did? <<  D Sure, great source of "what fud is Sun using against its competition	 today .."n   :-)e   Regards,  
 Kerry Main Senior Consultant5 Compaq Canada Corp.t Professional Servicese Voice: 613-592-4660  Fax  :  819-772-7036 Email: Kerry.Main@Compaq.com     -----Original Message-----= From: Fred Kleinsorge [mailto:kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com]=20l Sent: March 26, 2002 1:14 AM To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.ComdG Subject: Re: HP's viewpoint on Linux, was: Re: Sun eating major helpingl ofLinux      We did?t    6 "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@Compaq.com> wrote in messageH news:BE56C50EA024184DAF48F0B9A47F5CF4016CEC67@kaoexc01.americas.cpqcorp. net. .d Andrew,-  ' Welcome back .. I missed your feedback.r   :-) :-).   Regardsn   ------------------------------    Date: 26 Mar 2002 14:23:16 +0100* From: eplan@kapsch.net (Peter LANGSTOEGER)* Subject: KAPSCH says goodbye to you and me* Message-ID: <3ca07644$1@news.kapsch.co.at>  1 This is my last post from this my KAPSCH account.nJ I just got my kick as VMS (and me) are no longer needed (say wanted) here.  : I'll continue to be a VMS hobbyist at	peter@langstoeger.at   Job offers welcome !   See you soon, eg. , 	at 8-9 April 2002 at Compaq Vienna, Austria5 	at 16-18 April 2002 at DECUS Munich in Bonn, Germanyu" 	whenever/whereever at coincidence  < And now it's time for updating my resume (after 19 years)...   -- +< Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER           Tel.    +43 1 81111 2651; Ex-Network and OpenVMS system mgr   Fax.    +43 1 81111 888 < KAPSCH AG      Wagenseilgasse 1     E-mail  eplan@kapsch.netK A-1121 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm looking for a new job starting ASAPm   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 09:52:23 GMT=" From: tripf@vertis.nl (Frans Trip) Subject: KZPCC-AC Needed- Message-ID: <3ca044bd.8428890@news.vertis.nl>e   Hi,   * We are looking for 3 KZPCC-AC controllers.  ) Compaq in the Netherlands can't deliver !u  E Please contact me asap if you know someone who has this controller ina stock.  
 Frans Trip   tripf@vertis.nl>   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 09:06:51 -0500f* From: WILLIAM WEBB <WWEBB1@email.usps.gov> Subject: RE: KZPCC-AC Needed- Message-ID: <0033000057737465000002L052*@MHS>e  . =0ACheck with David Turner at Island Computer.   WWWebb   -----Original Message-----/ From: Info-VAX-Request@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNET0% Sent: Tuesday, March 26, 2002 4:54 AM B To: Webb, William W Raleigh, NC; Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNET Subject: KZPCC-AC Needed     Hi,9  * We are looking for 3 KZPCC-AC controllers.  ) Compaq in the Netherlands can't deliver !h  E Please contact me asap if you know someone who has this controller int stock.  
 Frans Trip   tripf@vertis.nl=   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 09:27:02 +0000h( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1> Subject: Re: Lottery and VMS) Message-ID: <3CA03EE6.3D3FE32C@127.0.0.1>    Peter Watkinson wrote: > D > Is it VMS that runs on these machines? I've never heard of Camelot= > having any downtime problems so the OS must be very stable. D > Is it VMS that runs on these systems worldwide? Are there a vax or$ > alpha processor in these machines?  E Yes and on VAX's. Alpha wasn't as established when the UK lottery washH started up, however as part of being re awarded the bit, this includes aD technology refresh (forced because any winning competitor would also have to install new kit).B  F I suppose I can say this now without causing any problems, but the twoH major players went to the same company, purveyor of fine uptime systems,F and that fan of Tubular Bells was a little ruffled because the present incumbent was speaking to same.l  F The M$ software promised by the loser was front end only, back end (or? backbone) is as it always has been and probably always will be.e  A If there is one thing more reliable than a VMS system operating ae( lottery, it is not winning  the jackpot. -- e( Regards, Nic Clews CSC Computer Sciences nclews at csc dot comb   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 04:52:54 -0500u' From: Howard S Shubs <howard@shubs.net>i Subject: Re: Lottery and VMS< Message-ID: <howard-A22F69.04525426032002@enews.newsguy.com>  2 In article <3c9fa2fe.15161187@news.cable.ntl.com>,.  peterw@u.genie.co.uk (Peter Watkinson) wrote:  ( > Is it VMS that runs on these machines?  1 Those lottery machines are effectively terminals.o  G If you want to know what they're talking to, you should ask your local a lottery company.   -- e Howard S ShubsD "Run in circles, scream and shout!"  "I hope you have good backups!"' Aren't there any networked SJFs around?    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 12:46:30 +0100 = From: Arne =?iso-8859-1?Q?Vajh=F8j?= <arne.vajhoej@gtech.com>  Subject: Re: Lottery and VMS) Message-ID: <3CA05F96.5D35B759@gtech.com>i   Peter Watkinson wrote:G > A few months ago I applied for a job on jobserve.com the UK's leading E > IT recruitment website for a junior VMS administrator type roll foriE > the UK's main lottery firm which I took to mean Camelot who run thelF > National Lottery. I didn't get the job! Anyway since then I've had aH > part time job working in a service station that has a lottery machine.D > Is it VMS that runs on these machines? I've never heard of Camelot= > having any downtime problems so the OS must be very stable.eD > Is it VMS that runs on these systems worldwide? Are there a vax or$ > alpha processor in these machines?   It is limited what I can say.    But:    - the central systems runs VMS;   - the POS (Point Of Sale) terminals does not run VMS they72     run a specialized OS for embedded applications   Arne   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 12:17:33 GMT , From: peterw@u.genie.co.uk (Peter Watkinson) Subject: Re: Lottery and VMS1 Message-ID: <3ca0665a.4517625@news.cable.ntl.com>y  7 On Mon, 25 Mar 2002 23:46:48 +0100, "Martin Hoogenboom"r <martinh@xs4all.nl> wrote:   >Peter,: >rE >Not that i know a lot about the subject but one thing i know is thatA< >in europe a lot of lotteries run on OpenVMS Alpha machines.C >I have worked for several of these in The Netherlands, Switserlandr >and UK.H >The machines you find at the local service stations are usually specialA >terminals connecting to the cental VMS servers via ISDN or POTS   >(sometimes leased lines). >cA >Not much downtime, thats exactly the reason VMS is used. HoweveruF >we once had a split cluster, both administering sold lottery tickets.5 >No downtime, but double uptime isn't good either ;-)> >= >Regards >Martinh >----- Original Message ----- / >From: "Peter Watkinson" <peterw@u.genie.co.uk>. >To: <Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com>& >Sent: Monday, March 25, 2002 11:26 PM >Subject: Lottery and VMSb >  >u >>      B Cool. Maybe I'll be able to change my job title to Lottery ServiceF Administrator and put it on my CV. Amazing what you might learn in the most unexpected of places ;-)     cheers,     Peter WatkinsonH peterw@u.genie.co.uk   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 13:53:36 +0000w4 From: John Laird <john@laird-towers.freeserve.co.uk> Subject: Re: Lottery and VMS8 Message-ID: <nsu0augjbjlksesjpn2ql0d0nip0jth5et@4ax.com>  H On Tue, 26 Mar 2002 12:46:30 +0100, Arne Vajhj <arne.vajhoej@gtech.com> wrote:   >Peter Watkinson wrote:lH >> A few months ago I applied for a job on jobserve.com the UK's leadingF >> IT recruitment website for a junior VMS administrator type roll forF >> the UK's main lottery firm which I took to mean Camelot who run theG >> National Lottery. I didn't get the job! Anyway since then I've had atI >> part time job working in a service station that has a lottery machine.eE >> Is it VMS that runs on these machines? I've never heard of Camelotr> >> having any downtime problems so the OS must be very stable.E >> Is it VMS that runs on these systems worldwide? Are there a vax or.% >> alpha processor in these machines?o >t >It is limited what I can say. >m >But:e! >  - the central systems runs VMSg< >  - the POS (Point Of Sale) terminals does not run VMS they3 >    run a specialized OS for embedded applicationse   I knew GTech rang a bell :-)  L In the early days, the UK lottery used to take *hours* to hint at the numberK of winners after the draw was made.  For fun, I wrote a small program whichwE uniquely identified each combination of draw numbers and so could (in>J theory) maintain an in-memory count of how many of each unique combinationK had been sold (assuming it could be fed with data fast enough to keep up innK real time).  The memory usage is almost trivial, and the processing time totJ permutate the winning numbers is seconds, so a "result" could be announcedL on the same TV programme, but I never did offer to sell it.  (Couldn't thinkH of a suitable percentage of the gross turnover !)  I'm open to offers...  F My suspicion was that the actual ticket details are probably stored inJ "sold" order in some database and have to be brute-force searched to countG the winners, but that's just my guess.  The time to announcement of thei; winner numbers and values has gone down since they started.e     	Johnn   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 16:03:39 +0100i. From: "Thomas H. Pauli" <thomaspauli@arcor.de> Subject: Re: Lottery and VMS' Message-ID: <3CA08DCB.2080908@arcor.de>C  	 Hi Peter,t  H VMS is indeed one of the two operating systems stable enough (the other G one lives on Himalayas) to run a lottery. We use it since 1996 and the m@ downtimes are negligeable, almost exclusively caused by network E problems. The only problems are with upgrades which could be done at i scheduled times.   Thomas   Peter Watkinson wrote:   > Hi,g > G > A few months ago I applied for a job on jobserve.com the UK's leadingoE > IT recruitment website for a junior VMS administrator type roll forrE > the UK's main lottery firm which I took to mean Camelot who run thecF > National Lottery. I didn't get the job! Anyway since then I've had aH > part time job working in a service station that has a lottery machine.D > Is it VMS that runs on these machines? I've never heard of Camelot= > having any downtime problems so the OS must be very stable.eD > Is it VMS that runs on these systems worldwide? Are there a vax or$ > alpha processor in these machines? >  > I'd like to know.o > E > I know the till is a Windows '98 epos machine. it crashed on me the G > other day - not funny. The Epos machines in the UK Job centres run onoC > NT 4 Dell Optiplex machines - I've seen those down also. EDS BTW.n >  >  >  > Kind regards,a >  >  >  >  > Peter Watkinsone > peterw@u.genie.co.uk >    ------------------------------    Date: 26 Mar 2002 08:57:45 -0600+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young)t Subject: Re: Lottery and VMS3 Message-ID: <r7K11aEsptDV@eisner.encompasserve.org>f  o In article <nsu0augjbjlksesjpn2ql0d0nip0jth5et@4ax.com>, John Laird <john@laird-towers.freeserve.co.uk> writes:sJ > On Tue, 26 Mar 2002 12:46:30 +0100, Arne Vajhj <arne.vajhoej@gtech.com> > wrote: >  >>Peter Watkinson wrote:I >>> A few months ago I applied for a job on jobserve.com the UK's leadingwG >>> IT recruitment website for a junior VMS administrator type roll forVG >>> the UK's main lottery firm which I took to mean Camelot who run thexH >>> National Lottery. I didn't get the job! Anyway since then I've had aJ >>> part time job working in a service station that has a lottery machine.F >>> Is it VMS that runs on these machines? I've never heard of Camelot? >>> having any downtime problems so the OS must be very stable.lF >>> Is it VMS that runs on these systems worldwide? Are there a vax or& >>> alpha processor in these machines? >> >>It is limited what I can say.A >> >>But:" >>  - the central systems runs VMS= >>  - the POS (Point Of Sale) terminals does not run VMS they04 >>    run a specialized OS for embedded applications >  > I knew GTech rang a bell :-) > N > In the early days, the UK lottery used to take *hours* to hint at the numberM > of winners after the draw was made.  For fun, I wrote a small program whicheG > uniquely identified each combination of draw numbers and so could (iniL > theory) maintain an in-memory count of how many of each unique combinationM > had been sold (assuming it could be fed with data fast enough to keep up in M > real time).  The memory usage is almost trivial, and the processing time torL > permutate the winning numbers is seconds, so a "result" could be announcedN > on the same TV programme, but I never did offer to sell it.  (Couldn't thinkJ > of a suitable percentage of the gross turnover !)  I'm open to offers... > H > My suspicion was that the actual ticket details are probably stored inL > "sold" order in some database and have to be brute-force searched to countI > the winners, but that's just my guess.  The time to announcement of the = > winner numbers and values has gone down since they started.l >   A 	I think that may be the only way.  I don't know the number spacel@ 	for the PowerBall Lottery.... but one wonders if you would need? 	100 GBytes of memory to hold unique sold tickets as the uniqued? 	number count > 50% of all possible combinations.  I don't havet 	time today.   				Rob    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 10:38:18 -0500f- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>o Subject: Re: Lottery and VMS, Message-ID: <3CA095D9.DAC88092@videotron.ca>   John Laird wrote:eH > My suspicion was that the actual ticket details are probably stored inL > "sold" order in some database and have to be brute-force searched to countI > the winners, but that's just my guess.  The time to announcement of thee= > winner numbers and values has gone down since they started.I  I Brute force yes, but in reverse. They decide whether someone will win the G million this week or not. If not, they use brute force to find a numberoM combination that has not been used, and then draw that number. If they decideyM someone is to win, they then use a single number generator to pick one of theP tickets in the database :-)m  K As for the draw on TV,  they could easily use an ALPHA to do the CGI to add 6 the digits on the balls as they are picked :-) :-) :-)   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 17:05:57 +0000a4 From: John Laird <john@laird-towers.freeserve.co.uk> Subject: Re: Lottery and VMS8 Message-ID: <qga1au8j2gjf2pkoivkvjvn27f4blp0c6p@4ax.com>  K On Tue, 26 Mar 2002 10:38:18 -0500, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>a wrote:   >John Laird wrote:I >> My suspicion was that the actual ticket details are probably stored inpM >> "sold" order in some database and have to be brute-force searched to count J >> the winners, but that's just my guess.  The time to announcement of the> >> winner numbers and values has gone down since they started. > J >Brute force yes, but in reverse. They decide whether someone will win theH >million this week or not. If not, they use brute force to find a numberN >combination that has not been used, and then draw that number. If they decideN >someone is to win, they then use a single number generator to pick one of the >tickets in the database :-)  G That's not the way our lottery works.  You pick the numbers (any 6 fromlG 1-49) and then watch to see if they match the balls that pop out of thetI machine.  We get anywhere from 0 winners each draw to over 100, once.  (IsE nearly died laughing when the 100+ draw occurred in the first month.)-     	John- -- -
 John Laird Yezerski Roper Ltd   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 17:05:57 +0000 4 From: John Laird <john@laird-towers.freeserve.co.uk> Subject: Re: Lottery and VMS8 Message-ID: <r3a1au0srmc9291htn9g0adt5fbnsqt71f@4ax.com>  K On 26 Mar 2002 08:57:45 -0600, young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) wrote:A  p >In article <nsu0augjbjlksesjpn2ql0d0nip0jth5et@4ax.com>, John Laird <john@laird-towers.freeserve.co.uk> writes: >>I >> My suspicion was that the actual ticket details are probably stored in M >> "sold" order in some database and have to be brute-force searched to count:J >> the winners, but that's just my guess.  The time to announcement of the> >> winner numbers and values has gone down since they started. >> . >cB >	I think that may be the only way.  I don't know the number spaceA >	for the PowerBall Lottery.... but one wonders if you would neede@ >	100 GBytes of memory to hold unique sold tickets as the unique@ >	number count > 50% of all possible combinations.  I don't have
 >	time today.m  J The "bog-standard" UK lottery ticket is 6 numbers from 1-49.  There are 14H million or so possible combinations.  I allowed a byte for each one, butL since then memory has got a bit cheaper and 4 bytes would allow for even theJ most perverse distribution.  You also need to count the "sub-tickets" fromL each ticket which are the 6 selections of 5 numbers, then the (however many)I selections of 4, and finally 3.  Given the winning numbers, you need only-I calculate all the possible winning permutations and then rip through each:J memory array and deduce the numbers of winners in each group.  This latterH nicety is really only to produce the winning amount, as the jackpots areK percentages of what is left when the 3-number winners are removed (they getmG a fixed ten pounds).  If you can get the data in (and it need only be aoA secondary server dangling out the back of the main machines), theo  calculations are trivial really.     	John, -- r
 John Laird Yezerski Roper Ltd   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 13:25:02 -0500t- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>. Subject: Re: Lottery and VMS, Message-ID: <3CA0BCDC.AC4B3DC3@videotron.ca>   John Laird wrote:sI > That's not the way our lottery works.  You pick the numbers (any 6 from-I > 1-49) and then watch to see if they match the balls that pop out of the  > machine. r  I That is what THEY want you to believe. They just need 49 video sequences.2E Computer picks the combination, and then they assemble the video thate= simulates the right balls popping out of the machine. :-) :-)l  G I remember before the 1976 olympics in montreal, the federal governmenteJ organised an olympic lottery to help pay for the event. The first draw wasI televised as a big event from a concert hall. It was a good old decwriter-M standing in the middle of the stage that printed the winning number (completeuC with the telltale decwriter sound) with a camera showing a closeup.0  L Reminds me a bit of the scene in the movie about a nuclear plant mishap withG Jack Lemmon and Jane fonda. They also had decwriters to log the events.E   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 19:22:40 +0100;- From: "Martin Hoogenboom" <martinh@xs4all.nl>P Subject: Re: Lottery and VMS3 Message-ID: <007f01c1d4f3$3ee8cc30$8349130a@wws00b>h   ----- Original Message -----6 From: "John Laird" <john@laird-towers.freeserve.co.uk> To: <Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com>r% Sent: Tuesday, March 26, 2002 6:05 PM- Subject: Re: Lottery and VMS    . > On Tue, 26 Mar 2002 10:38:18 -0500, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> > wrote: >y > >John Laird wrote:K > >> My suspicion was that the actual ticket details are probably stored intI > >> "sold" order in some database and have to be brute-force searched to  countsL > >> the winners, but that's just my guess.  The time to announcement of the@ > >> winner numbers and values has gone down since they started. > >nL > >Brute force yes, but in reverse. They decide whether someone will win theJ > >million this week or not. If not, they use brute force to find a numberI > >combination that has not been used, and then draw that number. If they  decideL > >someone is to win, they then use a single number generator to pick one of they > >tickets in the database :-) >yI > That's not the way our lottery works.  You pick the numbers (any 6 fromlI > 1-49) and then watch to see if they match the balls that pop out of the K > machine.  We get anywhere from 0 winners each draw to over 100, once.  (IwG > nearly died laughing when the 100+ draw occurred in the first month.)r >a >  > John > -- > John Laird > Yezerski Roper Ltd    ; Maybe, just maybe someone has been smart enough to hash thee: numbers and use the hashed key indexed in a database. ThatA would limit the search somewhat. especially if some extra thought<* was spent on the hash algorithm itself ;-)> Since my IQ doesn't reach over 82.5 it is safe to assume there= must be someone out there that has of thought of this before.r   Cheers, Martin   ------------------------------    Date: 27 Mar 2002 01:14:40 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>@ Subject: Re: Low Level format of SCSI Disc in VaxStation 4000VLC- Message-ID: <87g02nuu7z.fsf@prep.synonet.com>d  1 chris@applied-synergy.com (Chris Scheers) writes:e  E > While a low level format is not OS specific, some parameters of the-A > format may affect the OS.  For example, the SCSI FORMAT command ? > allows different block sizes.  The VLC format uses parameters  > appropriate for VMS.  D Except for AS400s and some IBM RAID boxes that use a 520 byte secroeC size. So if you score a pile of old AS400 drives that 'don't work',e" format them with 512 byte secorts.  F (2940s with PC boot roms that won't boot Macs are another nice win. :)   -- t< Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.o@                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 14:32:50 +0100r6 From: Serge ZANGHERI <szangheri@grenoble.sema.slb.com> Subject: lpd on OCEu5 Message-ID: <3CA07882.34C81E03@grenoble.sema.slb.com>t  = Hi I 'm trying to print on OCE 3155 from VMS 5.5 and ucx 2.0D  (lprsetup).e  " First try, directly to the printer /LPDIMP63:\-*         :lf=/$96$DIA14/SYS1/UCX_LPD/.log:\         :lp=:\         :rm=163.187.179.161:\          :rp=A137imp63:\V&         :sd=/$96$DIA14/SYS1/UCX_LPD/:\  $ When I print a com file I got this : $ first line                $ second line.                                   $ third line  C etc, etc the following lines are outside of the physical page :-(((a   2nd try via a printer server NTp /LPDIMP63:\ *         :lf=/$96$DIA14/SYS1/UCX_LPD/.log:\         :lp=:\         :rm=printers:\         :rp=A137imp63:\ &         :sd=/$96$DIA14/SYS1/UCX_LPD/:\  * If I print this com file via  I got this :  first lineN  second line  third lines  ? seems good but the first charactere ($) is outside of the page.   G Do you know what parameter I have to modify to get one solution correctr ?i Thanx    ------------------------------    Date: 26 Mar 2002 05:34:02 -0800( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)P Subject: Re: New book: OpenVMS with Apache, OSU, and WASD, The Nonstop Webserver= Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0203260534.263315e8@posting.google.com>b   winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU ("Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr") wrote in message news:<00A0B7C1.A1E0CAD9@SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>...j > In article <d7791aa1.0203251653.288b628b@posting.google.com>, bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski) writes:m > >Jean-Franois PIRONNE 	<jf.pieronne@laposte.net> wrote in message news:<3C9F3300.994C56DF@laposte.net>...eM > >> A new very interesting book which will be a valuable contribution to thed > >> VMS community.  > >> e[ > >> http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1555582648/qid%3D1017069087/104-6148870-9011156n > >> l > >> f > >> Jean-Franois Pironne  > >n > >what about Purveyor?a > 8 > Sorry, Bob.  Only webservers under active development. > 	 > -- Alan   > and what happens if God forbid David Jones or Mark Daniels get= run over by a street car?  Are OSU and WASD still going to beh= supported then?  And what about the VAX/VMS people?  They canh only use Purveyor ...e   >  > Q > ===============================================================================n2 >  Alan Winston --- WINSTON@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDUO >  Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056sO >  Physical mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 69, PO BOX 4349, STANFORD, CA  94309-0210cQ > ===============================================================================h   ------------------------------    Date: 26 Mar 2002 13:17:53 -0000= From: Doc.Cypher <Use-Author-Supplied-Address-Header@[127.1]> P Subject: Re: New book: OpenVMS with Apache, OSU, and WASD, The Nonstop Webserver6 Message-ID: <20020326131753.27374.qmail@gacracker.org>  9 On 26 Mar 2002, bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski) wrote:aG >winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU ("Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr")lF >wrote in message news:<00A0B7C1.A1E0CAD9@SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>...@ >> In article <d7791aa1.0203251653.288b628b@posting.google.com>,- >> bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski) writes: J >> >Jean-Fran=E7ois PI=C9RONNE 	<jf.pieronne@laposte.net> wrote in message+ >> >news:<3C9F3300.994C56DF@laposte.net>...aL >> >> A new very interesting book which will be a valuable contribution to = thet >> >> VMS community. >> >>=20L >> >> http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1555582648/qid%3D1017069087/10=   >> >> 4-6148870-9011156n >> >>=20 >> >>=20 >> >> Jean-Francois Pieronne >> > >> >what about Purveyor? >>=20e9 >> Sorry, Bob.  Only webservers under active development.- >>=20-
 >> -- Alan > ? >and what happens if God forbid David Jones or Mark Daniels get > >run over by a street car?  Are OSU and WASD still going to be> >supported then?  And what about the VAX/VMS people?  They can >only use Purveyor ...  J Actually, WASD runs on VAX/VMS as well as Alpha. Purveyor isn't their only option.i     Doc. --=20m6 The bigger the humbug, the better people will like it.L ~ Phineas Taylor Barnum.                              http://vmsbox.cjb.net=   ------------------------------  + Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 15:02:45 +0100 (MET) 9 From: Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>dP Subject: Re: New book: OpenVMS with Apache, OSU, and WASD, The Nonstop Webserver; Message-ID: <01KFTJVTP0OO8ZRGPU@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>   B > > and what happens if God forbid David Jones or Mark Daniels getA > > run over by a street car?  Are OSU and WASD still going to betA > > supported then?  And what about the VAX/VMS people?  They cane > > only use Purveyor ...y > L > Actually, WASD runs on VAX/VMS as well as Alpha. Purveyor isn't their only	 > option.r  > So does OSU.  (It does require at least VMS 5.0 since it uses  DECthreads.)   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 14:49:06 +0100 $ From: "labadie" <labadie_g@decus.fr>P Subject: Re: New book: OpenVMS with Apache, OSU, and WASD, The Nonstop Webserver3 Message-ID: <a1%n8.1506$fL6.29571@news.cpqcorp.net>d  5 "Bob Ceculski" <bob@instantwhip.com> wrote in messageu7 news:d7791aa1.0203260534.263315e8@posting.google.com...e   >M@ > and what happens if God forbid David Jones or Mark Daniels get? > run over by a street car?  Are OSU and WASD still going to ber   Hellos  E For Wasd, there is a mailing list, and among them a bunch of talentedh people.j  G I recall that when the ping bug appeared, the free software OS were the+ fastest to fix that.
 Do you prefer.K a support by Microsoft, telling you "it is not a bug, it is a feature. Thisf call is closed"r9 a support by a mailing list, which is usually very fast ?j  ? > supported then?  And what about the VAX/VMS people?  They cani > only use Purveyor ...a wrongh http://wasd.vsm.com.au/L& is hosted on a VAX 4000-700A/4000-100A   Regardse   Grard   ------------------------------    Date: 26 Mar 2002 13:46:24 -0000= From: Doc.Cypher <Use-Author-Supplied-Address-Header@[127.1]> P Subject: Re: New book: OpenVMS with Apache, OSU, and WASD, The Nonstop Webserver6 Message-ID: <20020326134624.28066.qmail@gacracker.org>  H On Tue, 26 Mar 2002, Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> wrote:C >> > and what happens if God forbid David Jones or Mark Daniels getPB >> > run over by a street car?  Are OSU and WASD still going to beK >> > supported then?  And what about the VAX/VMS people?  They can only usen >> > Purveyor ...  >> oM >> Actually, WASD runs on VAX/VMS as well as Alpha. Purveyor isn't their onlya >> option. f > ? >So does OSU.  (It does require at least VMS 5.0 since it uses a
 >DECthreads.)m  H I'll try to remember that. I've never used OSU so I was not aware it was available for VAX.     Doc. -- n6 The bigger the humbug, the better people will like it.K ~ Phineas Taylor Barnum.                              http://vmsbox.cjb.nete   ------------------------------  + Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 16:33:21 +0100 (MET)e9 From: Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>eP Subject: Re: New book: OpenVMS with Apache, OSU, and WASD, The Nonstop Webserver; Message-ID: <01KFTN0YR0KA8ZRGPU@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>u  J > I'll try to remember that. I've never used OSU so I was not aware it was > available for VAX.  D The source code is available.  In fact, I compiled my own, though I H didn't really look into the source code much---but I can't think of any H things off-hand which would be architecture-specific in the code, so by D default I would expect it to run on VAX, ALPHA, Itanium etc.  There . might even be a single code, I don't remember.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 16:24:48 +0100s= From: Arne =?iso-8859-1?Q?Vajh=F8j?= <arne.vajhoej@gtech.com>-P Subject: Re: New book: OpenVMS with Apache, OSU, and WASD, The Nonstop Webserver) Message-ID: <3CA092C0.4820A30B@gtech.com>a   Bob Ceculski wrote:A > winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU ("Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr") wrote in message news:<00A0B7C1.A1E0CAD9@SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>...: > > Sorry, Bob.  Only webservers under active development. > @ > and what happens if God forbid David Jones or Mark Daniels get? > run over by a street car?  Are OSU and WASD still going to bed > supported then?e  B Probably yes. The source code are available and the user community< can take over. It is one of the strengths of the open source	 movement.t  > >                 And what about the VAX/VMS people?  They can > only use Purveyor ...t  
 Nonsense !  - Both OSU and WASD are supported on VMS VAX !!k   Arne   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 16:25:17 GMTAL From: winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU ("Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr")P Subject: Re: New book: OpenVMS with Apache, OSU, and WASD, The Nonstop Webserver8 Message-ID: <00A0B828.394338EC@SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>  h In article <d7791aa1.0203260534.263315e8@posting.google.com>, bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski) writes: >winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU ("Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr") wrote in message news:<00A0B7C1.A1E0CAD9@SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>...lk >> In article <d7791aa1.0203251653.288b628b@posting.google.com>, bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski) writes: n >> >Jean-Franois PIRONNE 	<jf.pieronne@laposte.net> wrote in message news:<3C9F3300.994C56DF@laposte.net>...N >> >> A new very interesting book which will be a valuable contribution to the >> >> VMS community. >> >> \ >> >> http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1555582648/qid%3D1017069087/104-6148870-9011156 >> >>  >> >>  >> >> Jean-Franois Pironne >> > >> >what about Purveyor? >> e9 >> Sorry, Bob.  Only webservers under active development.a >> )
 >> -- Alan >t? >and what happens if God forbid David Jones or Mark Daniels get9> >run over by a street car?  Are OSU and WASD still going to be >supported then?    M Well, the source is available (and it's pretty readable, too; WASD especiallygN is well-commented and clearly laid out).  So people have a good shot at fixingM problems themselves, or of banding together to support these servers.  That's2O how the Apache project happened, when NCSA dropped support of its server.  DoesRL Process make the Purveyor source code freely available?  (That's curiousity,/ not truculence - I haven't heard that they do.)s  - >And what about the VAX/VMS people?  They cana >only use Purveyor ...  M They can't use Apache too well, to be sure, but OSU and WASD run fine on VAX, K OSU as far back as 5.5-2.  (You need to get a version pre 3.6 to do it, butdD Dave Jones has all old versions online through his targazer script.)  J In the meantime, do you really want a book that covers Purveyor written byO someone who's never used Purveyor?  At least I've acquired some experience withn) the three webservers the book does cover.h   -- Alana    O ===============================================================================o0  Alan Winston --- WINSTON@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDUM  Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056yM  Physical mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 69, PO BOX 4349, STANFORD, CA  94309-02104O ===============================================================================    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 04:28:12 +1030t/ From: Mark Daniel <Mark.Daniel@wasd.vsm.com.au>hP Subject: Re: New book: OpenVMS with Apache, OSU, and WASD, The Nonstop Webserver. Message-ID: <3CA0B6B4.5060100@wasd.vsm.com.au>   Bob Ceculski wrote:m=  > and what happens if God forbid [8<] Mark Daniels (sic) geta  > run over by a street car?   Apprenez  parler Franais.    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 08:39:34 GMTp' From: "Hans Vlems" <hvlems@zfree.co.nz>s! Subject: Re: News Server Softwareh" Message-ID: <3ca033b9@zfree.co.nz>  8 AFAIK the Multinet IP stack alse included a news server.? It may very well be that Compaq's own TCPIP stack also has thiso( functionality, but I've never used that.> In terms of reduncancy, availability and clustering, VMS is an! obvious, if not the only, choice.-  2 Michael Austin <maustin@firstdbasource.com> wrote:G >I am looking for a newsgroup server similar to ANU, but needs to scalesE >to full, near-realtime updates and support 1-2K concurrent requests.sG >OpenVMS or Tru64 and any recommendations on which box(clustered) would95 >support this in an N+1 configuration is appreciated.p >t >-- 	 >Regards,n >r8 >Michael Austin            Registered Linux User #2611638 >First DBA Source, Inc.    http://www.firstdbasource.com >Sr. Consultante >704-947-1089 (Office) >704-236-4377 (Mobile) >        http://www.zfree.co.nz   ------------------------------    Date: 26 Mar 2002 09:24:06 -0000= From: Doc.Cypher <Use-Author-Supplied-Address-Header@[127.1]>h! Subject: Re: News Server Softwareg6 Message-ID: <20020326092406.22123.qmail@gacracker.org>  = On Tue, 26 Mar 2002, "Hans Vlems" <hvlems@zfree.co.nz> wrote:m  3 >Michael Austin <maustin@firstdbasource.com> wrote: H >>I am looking for a newsgroup server similar to ANU, but needs to scaleF >>to full, near-realtime updates and support 1-2K concurrent requests.H >>OpenVMS or Tru64 and any recommendations on which box(clustered) would6 >>support this in an N+1 configuration is appreciated.  9 >AFAIK the Multinet IP stack alse included a news server. @ >It may very well be that Compaq's own TCPIP stack also has this) >functionality, but I've never used that.n? >In terms of reduncancy, availability and clustering, VMS is ant" >obvious, if not the only, choice.  C Sorry, there isn't a news server in Multinet. Or if there is, it is  incredibly well hidden.t     Doc. --  6 The bigger the humbug, the better people will like it.K ~ Phineas Taylor Barnum.                              http://vmsbox.cjb.netn   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 06:35:36 -0500n- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>n! Subject: Re: News Server Softwarer, Message-ID: <3CA05D08.4586CF1E@videotron.ca>   Hans Vlems wrote:e@ > In terms of reduncancy, availability and clustering, VMS is an# > obvious, if not the only, choice.e  N But its file system doesn't yield itself to tens of thousands of file creation and deletion per day.t   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 14:52:37 +0300 4 From: "Ruslan R. Laishev" <Laishev@SMTP.DeltaTel.RU>! Subject: Re: News Server Softwarey0 Message-ID: <3CA06105.3B2215A4@SMTP.DeltaTel.RU>   Hi Michael,h 	have a look to DNEWS software.h   Michael Austin wrote:h > H > I am looking for a newsgroup server similar to ANU, but needs to scaleF > to full, near-realtime updates and support 1-2K concurrent requests.H > OpenVMS or Tru64 and any recommendations on which box(clustered) would6 > support this in an N+1 configuration is appreciated. >  > --
 > Regards, > 9 > Michael Austin            Registered Linux User #261163p9 > First DBA Source, Inc.    http://www.firstdbasource.comi > Sr. Consultant > 704-947-1089 (Office)v > 704-236-4377 (Mobile)u   -- e Cheers, F +OpenVMS [Sys|Net] HardWorker .......................................+E  Russia,Delta Telecom Inc,                    Cel:  +7 (901) 971-3222 E  191119,St.Petersburg,Transportny per. 3                     116-3222rF +http://starlet.deltatel.ru ................. SysMan rides HailStorm +   ------------------------------   Date: 26 Mar 2002 09:58:28 GMT3 From: gartmann@immunbio.mpg.de (Christoph Gartmann)m! Subject: Re: News Server Softwarea0 Message-ID: <a7pgo4$t10$1@n.ruf.uni-freiburg.de>  L In article <3ca033b9@zfree.co.nz>, "Hans Vlems" <hvlems@zfree.co.nz> writes: > 9 >AFAIK the Multinet IP stack alse included a news server.u  / I don't think so. At least I never realized it.o  @ >It may very well be that Compaq's own TCPIP stack also has this) >functionality, but I've never used that.'? >In terms of reduncancy, availability and clustering, VMS is an " >obvious, if not the only, choice.  F On the other hand, are you sure that ANU cannot keep up with the load?   Regards,    Christoph GartmannW  H -- --------------------------------------------------------------------+H | Max-Planck-Institut fuer      Phone   : +49-761-5108-464   Fax: -452 |H | Immunbiologie                                                        |H | Postfach 1169                 Internet: gartmann@immunbio.mpg.de     |H | D-79011  Freiburg, Germany                                           |H +--------- http://www.immunbio.mpg.de/home/english/menue.html ---------+   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 09:21:36 -0500g+ From: "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@Compaq.com>6! Subject: RE: News Server Software T Message-ID: <BE56C50EA024184DAF48F0B9A47F5CF401AB1DB8@kaoexc01.americas.cpqcorp.net>  ? As a follow-on to Ruslan's suggestion, check out the following: 7 http://serverwatch.internet.com/reviews/news-dnews.htmlo, ftp://ftp.netwinsite.com/pub/dnews/vms/alpha   Regardsr  
 Kerry Main Senior Consultant$ Compaq Canada Corp./ Professional Services  Voice: 613-592-4660\ Fax  :  819-772-7036 Email: Kerry.Main@Compaq.com     -----Original Message-----< From: Ruslan R. Laishev [mailto:Laishev@SMTP.DeltaTel.RU]=20 Sent: March 26, 2002 6:53 AM To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comt! Subject: Re: News Server Softwareh     Hi Michael,v 	have a look to DNEWS software.o   Michael Austin wrote:- >=20H > I am looking for a newsgroup server similar to ANU, but needs to scale  I > to full, near-realtime updates and support 1-2K concurrent requests.=20dH > OpenVMS or Tru64 and any recommendations on which box(clustered) would  6 > support this in an N+1 configuration is appreciated. >=20 > --
 > Regards, >=209 > Michael Austin            Registered Linux User #261163T9 > First DBA Source, Inc.    http://www.firstdbasource.comp > Sr. Consultant > 704-947-1089 (Office)b > 704-236-4377 (Mobile)a   --=20s Cheers, F +OpenVMS [Sys|Net] HardWorker .......................................+E  Russia,Delta Telecom Inc,                    Cel:  +7 (901) 971-3222 E  191119,St.Petersburg,Transportny per. 3                     116-3222zF +http://starlet.deltatel.ru ................. SysMan rides HailStorm +   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 15:53:21 GMTy( From: Marc Chametzky <marc@bluevine.net>! Subject: Re: News Server SoftwareA+ Message-ID: <3CA099BA.9010207@bluevine.net>J  H > I am looking for a newsgroup server similar to ANU, but needs to scaleF > to full, near-realtime updates and support 1-2K concurrent requests.H > OpenVMS or Tru64 and any recommendations on which box(clustered) would6 > support this in an N+1 configuration is appreciated.    ; I'm running DNEWS on my Alpha system and it's working well.e  P JF Mezei posted that the file systems on VMS don't work well with "thousands of O file creation and deletion per day". That's true, but fortunately, DNEWS works =O with container files. My 32 GB news spool area actually consists of several 50 -R MB container files so that individual file creation/deletion cycles aren't needed.  N I did find that disk fragmentation quickly became an issue as these container N files were spread across hundreds of extents. Since I had the spool area on a P separate disk, I re-initialized that disk with /CLUSTER=15000 so that a 100,000 6 block file's extents would fit within a single window.   --Marc   ------------------------------    Date: 27 Mar 2002 01:17:45 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>! Subject: Re: News Server Softwarec- Message-ID: <87bsdbuu2u.fsf@prep.synonet.com>   3 Michael Austin <maustin@firstdbasource.com> writes:   B > I am looking for a newsgroup server similar to ANU, but needs toB > scale to full, near-realtime updates and support 1-2K concurrent> > requests.  OpenVMS or Tru64 and any recommendations on which> > box(clustered) would support this in an N+1 configuration is > appreciated.  @ Was there not a ANU follow on that used indexed files for higher performance?   -- .< Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.r@                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 14:39:57 GMT # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>tY Subject: Re: No cracking contests on the WWW - was Re: Once a fool, always a fool I guess/E Message-ID: <1L%n8.4831$e94.434@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>   = Not to mention charges under a variety of ill-conceived laws.d    8 "John E. Malmberg" <wb8tyw@qsl.network> wrote in message$ news:3C9DE82A.6010803@qsl.network... > Doc.Cypher wrote:T >PK > > Indeed it is, there is a lot of advertising mileage in going up againstDI > > over 4000 hackers and surviving everything they can throw at you. WhyW can'tl > > VMS Marketing see that?  >nF > OpenVMS was represented by only one system, and it did not fall to a > technological attack.D >nE > One competitor's system also survived, but others running that same  > operating system did not.e > K > Nothing is infallible, and social engineering, being both the cheaper and H > more effective ways of breaking into a system is still a risk that theI > computer owner must deal with, regardless of what platform they are on.p >bF > I will note that the other system owner does not seem to be bragging, > that *ONE* of their systems survived also. > >sE > >>Oh, Doc, btw you may or may not be aware that an offical securityhI > >>challenge as you propose has been suggested at a high level to Compaqt > >>and rejected.W > >> > >o. > > Did they give any reason for rejecting it? >gK > Such a contest can no longer be conducted on the Wild Wild Web.  It tendse toH > draw denial of service attacks, and most commercial connections charge > by theG > ammount of bandwidth.  Advertising a hacking contest on a machine mayT allowaH > an ISP to charge the advertiser with the actual costs incurred by them
 > from the > resulting overload.u >hE > Now for most of us, the threat of someone technologically attackingw  > their OpenVMS system is small. >4G > But for all systems, the primary threat to the system is accidents by-F > users especially privileged ones.  Securing your system against thatI > will not only bring you the best results, and will frustrate a cracker.S >aI > The same is true that you should always have a way to quickly rebuild /rF > replace a system that has fallen to a hardware failure.  This is theG > same recovery that you need to use when you are in the unlikely eventr( > that your system has been compromised. > J > So while it seems good to be hacker proof, your first priority should beI > to make it oops proof.  Including being able to positively identify whot > made changes.o >A > -Johnw > wb8tyw@qsl.network > Personal Opinion Onlyt >.   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 15:08:23 GMT # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>r3 Subject: Re: Once a fool, always a fool I guess ... F Message-ID: <H90o8.5132$e94.2391@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>  5 "Dale King" <dalek@forpresident.com> wrote in message ! news:a7dubi$qp7$1@lore.csc.com...e > L > Granted.  Tests like these are by no means exhaustive or comprehensive but I  > guess do make good marketing.d >d  2 Something Compaq has not done effectively for VMS.  8 So why not use Defcon 'results' as  something to market?   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 16:13:53 +0000rT From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <andrew_nospam.remove_this.harrison@sun.com>3 Subject: Re: Once a fool, always a fool I guess ...o& Message-ID: <3CA09E41.5020802@sun.com>   JF Mezei wrote:I   > Fred Kleinsorge wrote: > L >>harder time because of familiarity and availability -- VMS was designed toK >>be secure, and is old enough, and mature enough to have had a significante2 >>number of it's vulnerabilities found and fixed.  >> >  >  > O > Not to belittle the quality of VMS' security, but should one characterize theoL > TCPIP Services for VMS (which came from Unix) to be "old enough and mature > enough" ???? >     @ No unless you think that no CERT advisories = no vunerabilities.     POD, SMURF OOBD etc.     Regardsi   Andrew HarrisonC   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 16:57:56 +0000UT From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <andrew_nospam.remove_this.harrison@sun.com>3 Subject: Re: Once a fool, always a fool I guess ...u& Message-ID: <3CA0A894.4030004@sun.com>   jlsue wrote:  1 > On Fri, 22 Mar 2002 11:44:17 +1100, "Dale King"c! > <dalek@forpresident.com> wrote:u >  > 8 >>"Rob Buxton" <rob.buxton@wcc.govt.nz> wrote in message, >>news:3c9a7a1b.71938081@news.wcc.govt.nz... >>G >>>No, it's part of the NAS license. Most or maybe even all Alphas comeoH >>>with a NAS license now. For some older systems these were additional,G >>>but all of our old VAXes and Alphas seem to have some flavour of NASS >>>license.E >>>AN >>As I said, a TCPIP license does not come with VMS.  You end up paying for itR >>separately to the OS whatever spin you put on it.  Then if you want SSH you haveH >>to buy ANOTHER IP stack if even if you've ended up with a NAS license. >> >> > F > What a bunch of crap.  You pay for it with other OSs just as much asE > with VMS.  Just because it's a "hidden" cost doesn't mean it doesn'0 > exist. >     : Solaris is free on SPARC machines so the IP stack costs 0.9 Do you give commercial licences for OpenVMS away for freer last time I looked you didn't.  6 Perhaps you could fund the OpenVMS community with this6 great offer out of your performance bonus, you must be3 earning one for your quality input into this group.   ; Are you being paid on quantity of NFP's (Non Factual Posts)o9 or is the measure the quality of the expletives you use ?    Regards> Andrew Harrisona   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 13:02:07 GMTy3 From: Daniel Fischer <daniel.fischer@bger.admin.ch>l Subject: OpenSSH Client = Message-ID: <20020326.13020700.2253048141@sunb.bger.admin.ch>s   Hello everybody,  5 I'm looking for an OpenSSH client for OpenVMS AXP ...h  	 Thank youv     Daniel Fischer Tribunal f=E9d=E9ral Suissec Av. du Tribunal f=E9d=E9ral 29 1000 Lausanne 14  + T=E9l.: +41 21 3189855, Fax: +41 21 3233700t  $ E-Mail: daniel.fischer@bger.admin.ch   ------------------------------   Date: 26 Mar 2002 13:12:59 GMT) From: leslie@clio.rice.edu (Jerry Leslie)  Subject: Re: OpenSSH Clientr' Message-ID: <a7ps4r$ert$1@joe.rice.edu>s  4 Daniel Fischer (daniel.fischer@bger.admin.ch) wrote:7 : I'm looking for an OpenSSH client for OpenVMS AXP ...s  4 FISHU1006.ZIP via anonymous ftp from riceng.rice.edu  4 --Jerry Leslie     (my opinions are strictly my own)   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 15:57:36 +0100h$ From: "labadie" <labadie_g@decus.fr> Subject: Re: OpenSSH Clientm3 Message-ID: <o10o8.1514$fL6.29560@news.cpqcorp.net>o  @ "Daniel Fischer" <daniel.fischer@bger.admin.ch> wrote in message7 news:20020326.13020700.2253048141@sunb.bger.admin.ch...  Hello everybody,  5 I'm looking for an OpenSSH client for OpenVMS AXP ...=  $  ttssh, as said Rob Young, and puttyC (http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~sgtatham/putty/) are both good.l   Regardsf   Grard   ------------------------------    Date: 26 Mar 2002 08:53:34 -0600+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young)= Subject: Re: OpenSSH Client=3 Message-ID: <E0Vi32ZtsQYt@eisner.encompasserve.org>-  s In article <20020326.13020700.2253048141@sunb.bger.admin.ch>, Daniel Fischer <daniel.fischer@bger.admin.ch> writes:h > Hello everybody, > 7 > I'm looking for an OpenSSH client for OpenVMS AXP ...r >   : 	Go out to google.com and search for ttssh  , it works for2 	me and actually is a decent vt200/vt300 emulator.   				Robc   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 16:20:18 GMT-' From: Colin Blake <colin@theblakes.com>, Subject: Re: OpenSSH Clientr- Message-ID: <3CA09FC1.4853B48D@theblakes.com>:   labadie wrote:  & >  ttssh, as said Rob Young, and puttyE > (http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~sgtatham/putty/) are both good.v  > PuTTY appears to be for Win32 only, from reading the web page.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 08:16:38 -0500c+ From: "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@Compaq.com>y1 Subject: RE: Resumes [was: Right down the middle]eT Message-ID: <BE56C50EA024184DAF48F0B9A47F5CF401AB1DB6@kaoexc01.americas.cpqcorp.net>   Re: OpenVMS opportunitiesa  E Just tripped across the following as I read an article on them in theoC about to be released HPS Times. I have no background on these folkso4 other than what is on their web site, but as a fyi -  , http://www.xlnsystems.com/opportunities.htmlE "We are seeking career-minded individuals and independent contractorsS( with backgrounds in the following areas:   OpenVMS - Alpha & Vax    COBOL developmente
 C development-  3 SQL, DTR, FMS, CMS, and DCL experience required.=20-   Their home page is at: http://www.xlnsystems.come   Regards]  
 Kerry Main Senior Consultantw Compaq Canada Corp.0 Professional Services@ Voice: 613-592-4660T Fax  :  819-772-7036 Email: Kerry.Main@Compaq.com     -----Original Message-----> From: Tim Llewellyn [mailto:tim.llewellyn@blueyonder.co.uk]=20 Sent: March 25, 2002 4:21 PM To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com-1 Subject: Re: Resumes [was: Right down the middle]t         Fred Kleinsorge wrote: =20e >=20H > There are many people I know who have lost there jobs in the last 6=20I > months (inside and outside of Compaq) and who are still not working,=20 F > or are working in a job that pays far less - just to tide them over.  C Thats if you can GET a job that pays far less in the current marketb climate.  B Interviewer : And exactly what were you earning in your last role?  D Interviewee : 3 times what you are offering (well, put it a bit moreD delicately than that but thats the basic answer, unless one wants to start a new job by lying).  H Interviewer thinks : He won't stay around long when the market picks up.  > It appears that with current IT salaries in London it would beH impossible to get a mortage on anything, rates/salaries are so low (rule of thumb mortage=3D2.5-3=205B times salary, what can you get for 75-100k in London these days?).     regardsa =20y --=20u! tim.llewellyn@blueyonder.co.uk=20o  F * tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.uk address will cease to work June 2002 *   ------------------------------   Date: 25 Mar 2002 21:21:09 CDT= From: wayne@tachysoft.xxx.564897.killspam.00c7 (Wayne Sewell)r" Subject: Re: Right down the middle. Message-ID: <8d6NWGUfcJha@tachxxsoftxxconsult>  d In article <XRLm8.91722$702.21316@sccrnsc02>, "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net> writes:B > "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> wrote in message/ > news:7BLm8.1402$fL6.27307@news.cpqcorp.net...a >>! >> Bill Todd wrote in message ...c >> >D >> >"Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> wrote in message1 >> >news:W9pm8.1324$fL6.26734@news.cpqcorp.net...i >> > >> >...e >> >K >> >> "Company man"?  No.  I just believe that all things being equal, that1 > HPJ >> >> provides a wider set of opportunities for VMS's future, than Compaq. >> >I >> >If you're comparing it to Compaq with no significant changes from its[K >> >constitution today, then I probably agree.  But since I don't see VMS'seM >> >opportunities as being at all good under HP management either (especiallyrJ >> >when that management includes many of the bozos who have gotten Compaq >> whereJ >> >it is today) I think VMS would have a better chance if the merger wereE >> >defeated, since that at least opens a noticeable possibility thatt
 > Compaq'sL >> >current management would be given the boot and better management brought > inM >> >(even Compaq's BoD may not be stupid enough to make the same mistake they K >> >did last time, given that the results of that mistake are now obvious).  >> > >>L >> I believe that there would have been no change in Compaq management if HPL >> had defeated the merger.  Nor do I believe that there would have been anyK >> significant change in strategy.  I believe that VMS would have been fineo > onJ >> either side of a merger win/loss.  But together with HP, we will have a >> broader capability. >> > K > As long as Carly steps up to the plate and publicly asserts that VMS is a L > strategic product that will be supported and enhanced into the next decadeJ > (or whatever), this probably is the case. Seems to me that the financialM > justification is there, but the customer base and the marketplace could useF > a wee bit o' reassurance.     H If she had said that just *once*, I might have voted "yes".  Not that my. pissant shares would have made a difference.       -- -O ===============================================================================pM Wayne Sewell, Tachyon Software Consulting  (281)812-0738  wayne@tachysoft.xxxF: http://www.tachysoft.xxx/www/tachyon.html and wayne.html  K change .xxx to .com in addresses above, assuming you are not a spambot  :-)hO ===============================================================================p= Society Lady:  Are you familiar with the Great Wall of China? 5        Curly:  No, but I know a big fence in Chicago!a   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 08:59:44 +0100-9 From: Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com>.# Subject: Re: Set user similar to SU ' Message-ID: <3CA02A70.9E020E09@aaa.com>N  6 One thing about the HGLOGIN utility, it can't change a4 process on-the-fly in, e.g., a batch job. It's to be used interactively.o  	 Jan-Erik.i   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 09:00:19 GMTpL From: winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU ("Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr")# Subject: Re: Set user similar to SUu8 Message-ID: <00A0B7EA.10082D36@SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>  c In article <3CA02A70.9E020E09@aaa.com>, Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com> writes:   7 >One thing about the HGLOGIN utility, it can't change a 5 >process on-the-fly in, e.g., a batch job. It's to be2 >used interactively.   True, but not complete.  .   $ HGLOGIN username command  K will create a process logged in as username and execute that command, which1 can be a command procedure.   K So if you have an adequately-privileged account it can run a batch job that.4 executes commands in the context of another process.  H However, if you have an adequately-privileged account you could just do   ( $ SUBMIT/USER=username command-procedure   so that isn't much of a win.   -- Alani  O ===============================================================================e0  Alan Winston --- WINSTON@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDUM  Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056(M  Physical mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 69, PO BOX 4349, STANFORD, CA  94309-0210'O ===============================================================================t   ------------------------------    Date: 26 Mar 2002 10:32:23 +0100+ From: huber@vms.mppmu.mpg.de (Joseph Huber) # Subject: Re: Set user similar to SUa+ Message-ID: <dRD8rs5wGepy@vms.mppmu.mpg.de>   k In article <3c9fd078.308778446@news.directvinternet.com>, StevenU@POBoxes.com (Steven P. Underwood) writes: F > On 25 Mar 2002 13:30:30 +0100, huber@vms.mppmu.mpg.de (Joseph Huber) > wrote: > z >>In article <dzEn8.249204$uv5.21651094@bin6.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>, "William Hymen" <t18_pilot@hotmail.spam.com> writes: >>> Hi all,o >>> 4 >>> I have been administering our migration software2 >>> (similar to CMS) for 2 years. I really need to/ >>> do a (S)et (U)user similar to Unix.  I havea1 >>> full system privs, and the blessing of my SA.N >>> 0 >>> Our software license manager needs to see me7 >>> as the other person "completely". I want to do thismA >>> without constantly asking people for their username/password.  >>> Can anyone help? >>> Thanks,  Billi >>C >>At the DCL level, there is the PERSONA program , and H.Goatley's  C >>HGLOGIN , look into the usual archives (VMS freeware,TK archive).a >>F >>At program level , the $PERSONA_* system services are the way to go,$ >>see HELP system_service $PERSONA . >> >>G > On my system, a Compaq AlphaServer ES40 running OpenVMS V7.2-1, I can F > find no PERSONA program.  We currently have a SET UIC in some of ourG > backup procedures to run COM files to shutdown and restart Oracle for 
 > instance.  a > G > I know that SET UIC " is obsolete and no longer supported." per help, E > but I have not been able to find the replacement.  If someone could H > point me to the documentation (possibly a DSN search string that would7 > give usable results) it would be greatly appreciated.  > 	 > Thanks,% > Steve9 > Steven P. Underwood,DNRC > Whitinsville,MA  > StevenU@POBoxes.comu    J No, the PERSONA program is not part of the VMS distribution, but freeware. A nice browsable list is at *  http://www.process.com/openvms/index.htmlM Go to "View the entire list of packages" and scroll down to PERSONA, download 
 persona.zip .v  R PERSONA, if installed with privileges, other than HGLOGIN, does not require systemV privileges by the user: one can grant an identifier to each individual user specifying( the username(s) it is allowed to assume.   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 14:41:27 GMTp, From: "Mike Minor" <mminorhsd@earthlink.net>  Subject: simple ftp command fileC Message-ID: <rM%n8.1901$Ya2.51517@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net>s  	 Hi all...l  K I've been asked to create a .com file to execute a simple ftp file transfertI process. I have little knowledge of VMS commands, but I have been able tooH manually execute the individual commands to put the file out to a pc viaG ftp. The problem is that when I try to create and execute a DCL commandeJ (script) file to do the same thing, it connects to the pc via ftp but does> not execute the put command. A listing of the script is below:   $ ftp nnn.nn.n.n
 $ username
 $ password $ put test.dat $ exit  L The response that I see on the screen when I execute the .com file shows theG ftp connection opened ok, and then it closes, but it never does the putg8 command. Any hints and help will be greatly appreciated.    	 Thanks...h  
 Mike Minor Z-Code Systems, Inc. mminorhsd@earthlink.netv Phone: 407-656-4990o      Fax: 407-656-5875   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 15:48:26 +01004. From: "Thomas H. Pauli" <thomaspauli@arcor.de>$ Subject: Re: simple ftp command file' Message-ID: <3CA08A3A.7010807@arcor.de>s   Hi,g  ) $ ftp/user=lumpi/passw=grrzbrrgl nnn.nn.nt put test.dat exit $ exit  
 should do it.    Thomas   Mike Minor wrote:u   > Hi all...a > M > I've been asked to create a .com file to execute a simple ftp file transfereK > process. I have little knowledge of VMS commands, but I have been able tokJ > manually execute the individual commands to put the file out to a pc viaI > ftp. The problem is that when I try to create and execute a DCL command L > (script) file to do the same thing, it connects to the pc via ftp but does@ > not execute the put command. A listing of the script is below: >  > $ ftp nnn.nn.n.n > $ username > $ password > $ put test.dat > $ exit > N > The response that I see on the screen when I execute the .com file shows theI > ftp connection opened ok, and then it closes, but it never does the putD: > command. Any hints and help will be greatly appreciated. >  >  > Thanks...c >  > Mike Minor > Z-Code Systems, Inc. > mminorhsd@earthlink.netr > Phone: 407-656-4990  >      Fax: 407-656-5875 >  >  >    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 15:47:32 +0100o$ From: "labadie" <labadie_g@decus.fr>$ Subject: Re: simple ftp command file3 Message-ID: <YT%n8.1513$fL6.29683@news.cpqcorp.net>r  7 "Mike Minor" <mminorhsd@earthlink.net> wrote in message@= news:rM%n8.1901$Ya2.51517@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net...  > Hi all...3 >9D > I've been asked to create a .com file to execute a simple ftp file transferK > process. I have little knowledge of VMS commands, but I have been able tosJ > manually execute the individual commands to put the file out to a pc viaI > ftp. The problem is that when I try to create and execute a DCL commandlL > (script) file to do the same thing, it connects to the pc via ftp but does@ > not execute the put command. A listing of the script is below: >  > $ ftp nnn.nn.n.n > $ username > $ password > $ put test.dat > $ exit >b Hello.  : Remove the $ before username, password, put test.dat, exitJ if you put a $ as a leading character, you exit from Ftp or anything else.   Regardsw   Grard   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 15:04:18 GMTR, From: "Mike Minor" <mminorhsd@earthlink.net>$ Subject: Re: simple ftp command fileC Message-ID: <S50o8.1983$Ya2.67729@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net>    Gerard and Thomas.  K Thank you so much for your quick response to my stupid, simple question. IT 
 WORKS NOW!    	 Thanks...w  
 Mike Minor Z-Code Systems, Inc. mminorhsd@earthlink.nets Phone: 407-656-4990l      Fax: 407-656-5875/ "labadie" <labadie_g@decus.fr> wrote in messagea- news:YT%n8.1513$fL6.29683@news.cpqcorp.net...h >s9 > "Mike Minor" <mminorhsd@earthlink.net> wrote in messageI? > news:rM%n8.1901$Ya2.51517@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net... 
 > > Hi all...a > >tF > > I've been asked to create a .com file to execute a simple ftp file
 > transferJ > > process. I have little knowledge of VMS commands, but I have been able toL > > manually execute the individual commands to put the file out to a pc viaK > > ftp. The problem is that when I try to create and execute a DCL commandoI > > (script) file to do the same thing, it connects to the pc via ftp butr doesB > > not execute the put command. A listing of the script is below: > >h > > $ ftp nnn.nn.n.n > > $ username > > $ password > > $ put test.dat
 > > $ exit > >u > Hellos >e< > Remove the $ before username, password, put test.dat, exitL > if you put a $ as a leading character, you exit from Ftp or anything else. >u	 > Regardse >p > Grard >s >  >    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 11:10:08 -05002- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca><$ Subject: Re: simple ftp command file, Message-ID: <3CA09D4C.426357DF@videotron.ca>  3 you can also use COPY/FTP as a single line command:,  + $copy/ftp/ASCII/verbose myfile_on_vms.txt -M8 	ftp.otherhost.com"username password"::"remote file.txt"  ( help copy/FTP gives you all the options.  I the command procedure as shown by others is better when you have multipleaL files to transfer since the same connection is reused. But for a single file. to copy, copy/ftp does the job more elegantly.   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 09:45:02 GMT$' From: "Hans Vlems" <hvlems@zfree.co.nz>l/ Subject: SW Command Console for Raid array 3000 $ Message-ID: <3ca04324$1@zfree.co.nz>  8 We are trying to connect a Raid Array 3000 controller toD an Alpha VMS system (VMS 7.3). The RA3000 must be configured  with a. separate tool: software command console V2.x. @ We currently have V1.1 only and that doesn't work (no connection= established, across a serial connection from a W95 platform).t< We're looking for a URL to download SWCC V2.x, any pointers?  
 Hans Vlems     http://www.zfree.co.nz   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 10:57:23 +0100i$ From: "labadie" <labadie_g@decus.fr>3 Subject: Re: SW Command Console for Raid array 3000n3 Message-ID: <dEXn8.1491$fL6.29416@news.cpqcorp.net>f  2 "Hans Vlems" <hvlems@zfree.co.nz> wrote in message news:3ca04324$1@zfree.co.nz... >o: > We are trying to connect a Raid Array 3000 controller toF > an Alpha VMS system (VMS 7.3). The RA3000 must be configured  with a/ > separate tool: software command console V2.x.cB > We currently have V1.1 only and that doesn't work (no connection? > established, across a serial connection from a W95 platform).X> > We're looking for a URL to download SWCC V2.x, any pointers?   Hello    try L http://www5.compaq.com/products/storageworks/storage-management-software/swc cdownload.html   Regards    Grard   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 15:16:34 +0100H) From: Bart Zorn <B.Zorn@xs4all.nospam.nl>e3 Subject: Re: SW Command Console for Raid array 3000o- Message-ID: <3CA082C2.40704@xs4all.nospam.nl>n   labadie wrote:4 > "Hans Vlems" <hvlems@zfree.co.nz> wrote in message  > news:3ca04324$1@zfree.co.nz... >=20: >>We are trying to connect a Raid Array 3000 controller toF >>an Alpha VMS system (VMS 7.3). The RA3000 must be configured  with a/ >>separate tool: software command console V2.x.DB >>We currently have V1.1 only and that doesn't work (no connection? >>established, across a serial connection from a W95 platform).o> >>We're looking for a URL to download SWCC V2.x, any pointers? >=20 >=20 > Hellon >=20 > tryoJ > http://www5.compaq.com/products/storageworks/storage-management-softwar= e/swcx > cdownload.html >=20	 > RegardsW >=20
 > G=E9rard >=20 >=20  : By the way, SWCC stands for Storage Works Command Console.  	 Bart Zornr   ------------------------------    Date: 26 Mar 2002 06:57:53 -0800' From: dwicker1@yahoo.com (David Wicker)r3 Subject: Re: SW Command Console for Raid array 3000n= Message-ID: <bf12aa59.0203260657.3d7da9be@posting.google.com>p  B Since the last RA3000 swcc client was released in early 1999 it isE highly unlikely youre going to find it. If you have a compaq presales-; or service rep it can maybe be obtained internally from the.F ESAD(enterprise storage array division) group. Some have access to the internal store for that.B Or you can just use the CLI to configure it with hyperteminal. YouD just have to know the initial key stroke to change its communicationC mode from SWCC to direct other wise it will not respond on a serial,E connection. I used to know it but i forgot it was like ctrl-esc-q  oro something like that.      _ "labadie" <labadie_g@decus.fr> wrote in message news:<dEXn8.1491$fL6.29416@news.cpqcorp.net>... 4 > "Hans Vlems" <hvlems@zfree.co.nz> wrote in message  > news:3ca04324$1@zfree.co.nz... > > < > > We are trying to connect a Raid Array 3000 controller toH > > an Alpha VMS system (VMS 7.3). The RA3000 must be configured  with a1 > > separate tool: software command console V2.x.tD > > We currently have V1.1 only and that doesn't work (no connectionA > > established, across a serial connection from a W95 platform).f@ > > We're looking for a URL to download SWCC V2.x, any pointers? >  > Hellon >  > try?N > http://www5.compaq.com/products/storageworks/storage-management-software/swc > cdownload.html > 	 > Regardsl >  > Grard   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 07:04:44 -08009# From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com>7  Subject: tcpip5.1  smtp question9 Message-ID: <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIGENPEGAA.tom@kednos.com>@  ( on AXP 7.3 I have in my SMTP.CONFIG file$ Reject-Unbacktranslatable-IP:   TRUE  A Now what seems to happen is that if someone has an MX record onlyn@ the message is rejected. Thus NSLOOKUP fails but NSLOOKUP -q=MX 	 does not.q  A How does SMTP actually function when this field is set TRUE?  Any : thoughts on how to fix the problem is greatly appreciated.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 17:24:06 +0100>. From: "Thomas H. Pauli" <thomaspauli@arcor.de>$ Subject: Re: tcpip5.1  smtp question' Message-ID: <3CA0A0A6.3080804@arcor.de>o   Hi Tom,u  H AFAIK SMTP tries to translate the IP-address of the IP-node which tries B to send this mail. Isn't this completely different from that what I NSLOOKUP does? Dosn't the behavior of NSLOOKUP simply mean that there is d@   a MX record and no host-name/IP-address relation ind yor DNS ?   Thomas   Tom Linden wrote:e  * > on AXP 7.3 I have in my SMTP.CONFIG file& > Reject-Unbacktranslatable-IP:   TRUE > C > Now what seems to happen is that if someone has an MX record onlyiB > the message is rejected. Thus NSLOOKUP fails but NSLOOKUP -q=MX  > does not.e > C > How does SMTP actually function when this field is set TRUE?  Anyg< > thoughts on how to fix the problem is greatly appreciated. >  >  >  >  >    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 09:05:53 -0800b# From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> $ Subject: RE: tcpip5.1  smtp question9 Message-ID: <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJICEOGEGAA.tom@kednos.com>c  C So is this then the expected behaviour of the antispamming featureseA of 5.1?  I'm not sure about the point you raise, I guess my pointe@ was the while nslokup failed, nslookup -q=MX returned a name, IPB relation.  Shouldn't that be adequate for spam protection?  If so,! how does one get this configured?      > -----Original Message-----5 > From: Thomas H. Pauli [mailto:thomaspauli@arcor.de]n' > Sent: Tuesday, March 26, 2002 8:24 AM  > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Coml% > Subject: Re: tcpip5.1 smtp questionn >  > 	 > Hi Tom,d > J > AFAIK SMTP tries to translate the IP-address of the IP-node which tries D > to send this mail. Isn't this completely different from that what K > NSLOOKUP does? Dosn't the behavior of NSLOOKUP simply mean that there is oB >   a MX record and no host-name/IP-address relation ind yor DNS ? >  > Thomas >  > Tom Linden wrote:. > , > > on AXP 7.3 I have in my SMTP.CONFIG file( > > Reject-Unbacktranslatable-IP:   TRUE > > E > > Now what seems to happen is that if someone has an MX record onlyoD > > the message is rejected. Thus NSLOOKUP fails but NSLOOKUP -q=MX 
 > > does not.I > > E > > How does SMTP actually function when this field is set TRUE?  Any,> > > thoughts on how to fix the problem is greatly appreciated. > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  >    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 18:50:15 +0100n. From: "Thomas H. Pauli" <thomaspauli@arcor.de>$ Subject: Re: tcpip5.1  smtp question' Message-ID: <3CA0B4D7.9000403@arcor.de>o  I Well, MX records are for finding a gateway to _send_ a mail (you need to :D know a gateway to send mails with particular addresses to) but this H unbacktranslateable stuff happens when mails are _received_ by the SMTP D server of your host. Is simply checks if something (DNS, UCX local) E 'knows' the IP number of the sending server (gateway). If it doesn't sA 'know' it, you can force it to reject this mail with this switch.oA NSLOOKUP queries your DNS for "IN A" or "IN MX" entries which is v% slightly different to what SMTP does.    Thomas   Tom Linden wrote:l  E > So is this then the expected behaviour of the antispamming features C > of 5.1?  I'm not sure about the point you raise, I guess my pointeB > was the while nslokup failed, nslookup -q=MX returned a name, IPD > relation.  Shouldn't that be adequate for spam protection?  If so,# > how does one get this configured?U >  >  >  >>-----Original Message-----5 >>From: Thomas H. Pauli [mailto:thomaspauli@arcor.de]=' >>Sent: Tuesday, March 26, 2002 8:24 AM= >>To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Coma% >>Subject: Re: tcpip5.1 smtp questionD >> >>	 >>Hi Tom,I >>J >>AFAIK SMTP tries to translate the IP-address of the IP-node which tries D >>to send this mail. Isn't this completely different from that what K >>NSLOOKUP does? Dosn't the behavior of NSLOOKUP simply mean that there is  B >>  a MX record and no host-name/IP-address relation ind yor DNS ? >> >>Thomas >> >>Tom Linden wrote:H >> >>+ >>>on AXP 7.3 I have in my SMTP.CONFIG file-' >>>Reject-Unbacktranslatable-IP:   TRUEn >>>cD >>>Now what seems to happen is that if someone has an MX record onlyC >>>the message is rejected. Thus NSLOOKUP fails but NSLOOKUP -q=MX r >>>does not. >>>JD >>>How does SMTP actually function when this field is set TRUE?  Any= >>>thoughts on how to fix the problem is greatly appreciated.s >>>o >>>i >>>  >>>i >>>o >>>    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 10:59:09 -0500)1 From: Michael Austin <maustin@firstdbasource.com>s Subject: Re: Testing DNEWS2 Message-ID: <3CA09ACD.E65931BE@firstdbasource.com>  F This is cool.. my  first foray into installing a news server on my DSL connection.l  8 It showed up in about .2 seconds on the upstream server.   Michael Austin wrote:a > G > This is a post from DNEWS for OpenVMS.  How long does it take to showh > up?t > --
 > Regards, > 9 > Michael Austin            Registered Linux User #261163(9 > First DBA Source, Inc.    http://www.firstdbasource.comE > Sr. Consultant > 704-947-1089 (Office)  > 704-236-4377 (Mobile)    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 10:56:40 -0500M1 From: Michael Austin <maustin@firstdbasource.com>r Subject: Testing DNEWS2 Message-ID: <3CA09A38.EDD42A5B@firstdbasource.com>  E This is a post from DNEWS for OpenVMS.  How long does it take to show  up?  -- s Regards,  7 Michael Austin            Registered Linux User #261163e7 First DBA Source, Inc.    http://www.firstdbasource.comt Sr. Consultant 704-947-1089 (Office)r 704-236-4377 (Mobile)    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 17:15:30 GMT ! From: Andy <acs@fcgnet.works.net> 9 Subject: Today's odd Compaq Working Group Survey QuestionS> Message-ID: <Xns91DD7C827957Dacsfcgnetworksnet@216.166.71.232>  B Thought I would kill a couple minutes at lunch answering a Compaq $ survey and ran across this question:  < Q: Which Compaq systems do you use? (Check all that apply)    1 One of the possible selections was the following:O  B    [] AlphaServer systems (AlphaStation workstations, VAX systems,/                            PDP systems, etc.)  h  s  @ I think either someone is confused about the differences between Alpha, VAX, and PDP   A OR they really meant "legacy Digital products" and didn't want toj% get harassed for putting it that way.D   -Andy- -- a   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2002.168 ************************