1 INFO-VAX	Wed, 27 Mar 2002	Volume 2002 : Issue 170       Contents:2 ACCEPT CREDIT CARDS!                         121260 Re: another hint of post-merger direction, maybe0 Re: another hint of post-merger direction, maybe Re: Backup Files Re: Blade architectures  Re: Blade architectures  Re: Blade architectures  Re: Blade architectures  Re: C++ object Re: DCPS version 2.0, Does the PIPE command use a new entity type?0 Re: Does the PIPE command use a new entity type?0 Re: Does the PIPE command use a new entity type? Re: Good IBM Ad  Re: Good IBM Ad  Re: Good IBM Ad  Re: Good IBM Ad  Re: Good IBM Ad  Re: Good IBM Ad  Re: Good IBM Ad  Re: Good IBM Ad   Re: Hacker Using My Mail Server?  Re: Hacker Using My Mail Server?  Re: Hacker Using My Mail Server?& Help! VT100 emulators - some problems.* Re: Help! VT100 emulators - some problems.A Re: How does one check to verify all nodes are fully operational? + Re: How to know if EDS hires for VMS Eng. ? + Re: How to know if EDS hires for VMS Eng. ? + Re: How to know if EDS hires for VMS Eng. ? + Re: How to know if EDS hires for VMS Eng. ? + Re: How to know if EDS hires for VMS Eng. ? + Re: How to know if EDS hires for VMS Eng. ? + Re: How to know if EDS hires for VMS Eng. ? + Re: How to know if EDS hires for VMS Eng. ? + Re: How to know if EDS hires for VMS Eng. ? + Re: How to know if EDS hires for VMS Eng. ? + Re: How to know if EDS hires for VMS Eng. ? + Re: How to know if EDS hires for VMS Eng. ? F Re: HP's viewpoint on Linux, was: Re: Sun eating major helping ofLinuxF Re: HP's viewpoint on Linux, was: Re: Sun eating major helping ofLinuxF Re: HP's viewpoint on Linux, was: Re: Sun eating major helping ofLinuxF Re: HP's viewpoint on Linux, was: Re: Sun eating major helping ofLinuxF Re: HP's viewpoint on Linux, was: Re: Sun eating major helping ofLinuxF Re: HP's viewpoint on Linux, was: Re: Sun eating major helping ofLinuxF Re: HP's viewpoint on Linux, was: Re: Sun eating major helping ofLinuxF Re: HP's viewpoint on Linux, was: Re: Sun eating major helping ofLinuxF Re: HP's viewpoint on Linux, was: Re: Sun eating major helping ofLinuxF Re: HP's viewpoint on Linux, was: Re: Sun eating major helping ofLinuxF Re: HP's viewpoint on Linux, was: Re: Sun eating major helping ofLinuxF Re: HP's viewpoint on Linux, was: Re: Sun eating major helping ofLinuxF Re: HP's viewpoint on Linux, was: Re: Sun eating major helping ofLinuxF Re: HP's viewpoint on Linux, was: Re: Sun eating major helping ofLinuxF Re: HP's viewpoint on Linux, was: Re: Sun eating major helping ofLinux! Re: Interesting Alpha advertising ! Re: Interesting Alpha advertising ! Re: Interesting Alpha advertising ! Re: Interesting Alpha advertising ! Re: Interesting Alpha advertising ! Re: Interesting Alpha advertising ! Re: Interesting Alpha advertising 8 Re: Longest VMS _cluster_ uptime, was: Re: 1 Year uptime Re: Lottery and VMS 5 Re: Monster Marvel Performance - headed our way . . . 5 Re: Monster Marvel Performance - headed our way . . . 5 Re: Monster Marvel Performance - headed our way . . . 4 NetBeans 3.2.1 on VMS (was Excursion (DECterm) API?) RE: News Server Software Re: News Server Software Re: News Server Software Re: News Server Software* Re: Once a fool, always a fool I guess ...* Re: Once a fool, always a fool I guess ...* Re: Once a fool, always a fool I guess ...* Re: Once a fool, always a fool I guess ...* Re: Once a fool, always a fool I guess ...* Re: Once a fool, always a fool I guess ...* Re: Once a fool, always a fool I guess ...* Re: Once a fool, always a fool I guess ...* Re: Once a fool, always a fool I guess ... Re: OpenSSH Client- Re: OpenVMS port to Intel - video now on line - Re: OpenVMS port to Intel - video now on line - Re: OpenVMS port to Intel - video now on line - Re: OpenVMS port to Intel - video now on line - Re: OpenVMS port to Intel - video now on line - Re: OpenVMS port to Intel - video now on line - Re: OpenVMS port to Intel - video now on line - Re: OpenVMS port to Intel - video now on line - Re: OpenVMS port to Intel - video now on line > Re: OpenVMS port to Intel - video now on line (actually CDROM)9 OpenVMS with Apache, OSU, and WASD, The Nonstop Webserver * Re: Oracle media - v 7.1.x for OpenVMS VAX4 Re[2]: Re[2]: SW Command Console for Raid array 30001 Re: Re[2]: SW Command Console for Raid array 3000 - Re[5]: SW Command Console for Raid array 3000  SCRNOTCURAV in dbg* Re: SW Command Console for Raid array 3000* Re: SW Command Console for Raid array 3000" Re: System software status utility RE: tcpip5.1  smtp question  Re: tcpip5.1  smtp question 4 Re: Today's odd Compaq Working Group Survey Question4 Re: Today's odd Compaq Working Group Survey Question4 Re: Today's odd Compaq Working Group Survey Question4 Re: Today's odd Compaq Working Group Survey Question4 Re: Today's odd Compaq Working Group Survey Question4 Re: Today's odd Compaq Working Group Survey Question0 Re: Wanted: VMWare Workstation 3.0 Serial Number0 Re: Wanted: VMWare Workstation 3.0 Serial NumberP White paper now avaialble - Total Cost of Ownership for Enterprise Class Cluster  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 15:58:54 -0200 " From: 16merchantoptinleads@msn.com; Subject: ACCEPT CREDIT CARDS!                         12126 9 Message-ID: <200203271108.LAA05558@master.cabildofuer.es>    <html>   <head>8 <meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Language" content=3D"en-us">= <meta name=3D"GENERATOR" content=3D"Microsoft FrontPage 5.0"> < <meta name=3D"ProgId" content=3D"FrontPage.Editor.Document">K <meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3Dwindows-=  1252">. <title>NO MONEY Down Merchant Accounts</title> <style>  <!-- fine {K 	FONT-SIZE: 9px; COLOR: #666666; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma, Arial, Helvetica, sa=  ns-serif }  -->  </style> </head>   + <body text=3D"#006699" bgcolor=3D"#006699">    <p align=3D"center"><i><strong> K <font color=3D"#FFFF00" face=3D"Arial" style=3D"font-size: 28pt">NO MONEY =  Down  * Merchant Accounts!</font></strong></i></p>K <p align=3D"center"><font color=3D"#00FF00" face=3D"Arial" size=3D"2">&nbs= K p;</font><font color=3D"#00FF00" lang=3D"0" FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF"><font fac=  e=3D"Arial"><b>If = you own your own business, you're starting a new business<br> K or know someone who is.</b>..</font><b><font face=3D"Arial" size=3D"2"> </= 	 font></b> 
 </font><i><b> K <font color=3D"#00FF00" face=3D"Arial" lang=3D"0" size=3D"4" FAMILY=3D"SAN=  SSERIF">Being  able to accept Major Credit<br> M Cards can make all the difference in the world!</font></b></i><font color=3D= K "#00FF00" face=3D"Arial" lang=3D"0" size=3D"4" FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF">&nbsp;= K </font><font color=3D"#000000" face=3D"Arial" lang=3D"0" size=3D"2" FAMILY=  =3D"SANSSERIF"><br> K <span class=3D"271340518-02012002"><font color=3D"#0000ff">&nbsp;</font></= K span></font><b><font color=3D"#ff0080" lang=3D"0" size=3D"5" FAMILY=3D"SAN=  SSERIF"><br>J </font><i><font face=3D"Arial" lang=3D"0" size=3D"5" FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF">K <a href=3D"http://rd.yahoo.com/dir/?http://202.102.9.82/merch/1/index.html=  " target=3D"_blank">K <font color=3D"#FFFF00">CLICK HERE</font></a></font></i></b><font color=3D= K "#FFFF00" face=3D"Arial" lang=3D"0" size=3D"5" FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF">&nbsp;= K </font><font color=3D"#0000ff" face=3D"Arial" lang=3D"0" size=3D"5" FAMILY=  =3D"SANSSERIF"><br> C </font><font color=3D"#000000" lang=3D"0" FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF"><br> K </font><strong><font face=3D"Arial" color=3D"#00FF00" lang=3D"0" FAMILY=3D=  "SANSSERIF">B Just the fact that you accept credit cards adds credibility to<br>K your business. Especially if you are a New, Small or Home Based Business.<= M /font><font face=3D"Arial" size=3D"2" color=3D"#000000" lang=3D"0" FAMILY=3D=  "SANSSERIF"><br> </font></strong>K <font face=3D"Arial" size=3D"2" color=3D"#000000" lang=3D"0" FAMILY=3D"SAN=  SSERIF">K <span class=3D"271340518-02012002"><font color=3D"#ff6600">&nbsp;</font></= K span></font><font color=3D"#ff6600" lang=3D"0" size=3D"1" FAMILY=3D"SANSSE= 	 RIF"><br>  </font><strong><em> K <font color=3D"#FFFF00" face=3D"Arial" lang=3D"0" size=3D"6" FAMILY=3D"SAN=  SSERIF">No  K Payment For The First Month!</font><font color=3D"#ff8000" face=3D"Arial" = / lang=3D"0" size=3D"5" FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF"><br>  </font></em></strong> K <font color=3D"#ff8000" face=3D"Arial" lang=3D"0" size=3D"5" FAMILY=3D"SAN=  SSERIF">K <span class=3D"271340518-02012002"><font color=3D"#0000ff" size=3D"2">&nbs= K p;</font></span></font><font color=3D"#000000" lang=3D"0" FAMILY=3D"SANSSE= 	 RIF"><br> 
 </font><b>K <font color=3D"#00FF00" face=3D"Arial" lang=3D"0" size=3D"4" FAMILY=3D"SAN=  SSERIF">Setup K within 3-5 Days</font></b><font color=3D"#00FF00" lang=3D"0" size=3D"2" FA=  MILY=3D"SANSSERIF"><br> K </font><font color=3D"#00FF00" lang=3D"0" size=3D"1" FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF">=  <br>K </font><font face=3D"Arial"><font color=3D"#00FF00" lang=3D"0" FAMILY=3D"S= 
 ANSSERIF">I Approval is quick and our set up times range from 3 - 5 days. Guaranteed  K approval on all leases for equipment or software. Bad credit, no credit, n=  o K problem! </font><font color=3D"#00FF00" lang=3D"0" size=3D"2" FAMILY=3D"SA= 
 NSSERIF"><br>  <br>K </font><b><font color=3D"#00FF00" lang=3D"0" size=3D"4" FAMILY=3D"SANSSERI= 
 F">ACCEPT K CREDIT CARDS ONLINE or OFFLINE !!</font></b></font><font color=3D"#000000"= 0  lang=3D"0" size=3D"1" FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF"><br> <br>* </font><span class=3D"271340518-02012002">K <font color=3D"#000080" face=3D"Arial" lang=3D"0" size=3D"1" FAMILY=3D"SAN= K SSERIF">&nbsp;</font><font color=3D"#000000" face=3D"Arial" lang=3D"0" siz= K e=3D"1" FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF"><font face=3D"Arial" size=3D"5"><strong><em><= K a href=3D"http://rd.yahoo.com/dir/?http://202.102.9.82/merch/1/index.html"= 1  target=3D"_blank"><font color=3D"#FFFF00">CLICK  K HERE</font></a></em></strong></font><font color=3D"#FFFF00" face=3D"Arial"= +  size=3D"5">&nbsp;</font></font></span></p> K <p align=3D"center"><span class=3D"fine"><font color=3D"#000000" size=3D"1= 
 ">Did you K receive an email advertisement in error? Our goal is to only target indivi=  duals K who would like to take advantage of our offers. If you'd like to be remove=  d from  F our mailing list, please click on the link below. You will be removed K immediately and automatically from all of our future mailings.</font></spa=  n></p>K <p align=3D"center"><span class=3D"fine"><font color=3D"#000000" size=3D"1= 
 ">We protect  K all email addresses from other third parties. Thank you.&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=   </font>K <font size=3D"1">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb= K sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=  ;&nbsp; </font> K <a href=3D"http://202.102.9.82/mort/remove.htm"><font color=3D"#FFFF00" si= 	 ze=3D"1"> - Please <b>remove</b> me</font></a></span></p>    </body>    </html>    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 17:19:36 +0000 T From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <andrew_nospam.remove_this.harrison@sun.com>9 Subject: Re: another hint of post-merger direction, maybe " Message-ID: <3CA1FF28.909@sun.com>   Paul Winalski wrote:  H > On Tue, 26 Mar 2002 06:07:09 GMT, "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> > wrote: >  > L >>Now, that's Compaq stupidity at its finest.  Let's relegate a product thatI >>could be potentially miles ahead of any commercial Unix competitor to a  >>niche market >> > = > [the niche market being referred to is technical computing]  >  > A >>that has relatively little need of the unique value (clustering 9 >>being a biggie) that we're in a unique position to add.  >> > A > Actually, high-performance technical computing these days means E > massive parallelism.  Clustering and related features in Tru64 Unix G > are important plusses and a big reason why Tru64 is such an important E > player in that market.  And HPTC is less of a niche than it used to E > be.  It's not just DoD, the spooks, and weather simulation anymore. D > There's big growth in biomedical and entertainment applications as > well.      Hum.  H There are 13 Alphaserver systems in the top500 list, none of the configsD I have looked at that are listed use TruCluster. They do however run Tru64.   Regards  Andrew Harrison    ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 18:00:52 GMT % From: jlsue <jlsuexxxz@insightbb.com> 9 Subject: Re: another hint of post-merger direction, maybe 8 Message-ID: <n524auoio101gq12obd0527ed2k37g2aaf@4ax.com>  E On Wed, 27 Mar 2002 17:19:36 +0000, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy 3 <andrew_nospam.remove_this.harrison@sun.com> wrote:    >  >  >Paul Winalski wrote:  >    >>>  >>  B >> Actually, high-performance technical computing these days meansF >> massive parallelism.  Clustering and related features in Tru64 UnixH >> are important plusses and a big reason why Tru64 is such an importantF >> player in that market.  And HPTC is less of a niche than it used toF >> be.  It's not just DoD, the spooks, and weather simulation anymore.E >> There's big growth in biomedical and entertainment applications as  >> well. >  >  >Hum.  > I >There are 13 Alphaserver systems in the top500 list, none of the configs E >I have looked at that are listed use TruCluster. They do however run  >Tru64.  >   1 Just out of curiosity, which top500 list is this?   1 Not speaking for anyone, certainly not DEC/Compaq - (get rid of the xxxz in my address to e-mail)    ------------------------------    Date: 27 Mar 2002 08:04:25 -0600- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)  Subject: Re: Backup Files 3 Message-ID: <D3kQZ7YKCDrw@eisner.encompasserve.org>   t In article <vk7o8.23066$uR5.49338@newsfeeds.bigpond.com>, "Jaime H. Barroco" <jbarroco@broadway.bigpond.com> writes: > N > Is there any kind of command, on OpenVMS, that does the same function as the& > Unix command DOS2UNIX or vice-versa?  F    This is built into FTP.  IT's why any real FTP client and/or server>    implements both binary and ASCII mode according to the RFC.  D    There is plenty of Windoze FTP software which simply won't follow'    the RFP, some of them quite popular.    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 13:55:46 +0100 * From: Alexis Cousein <al@brussels.sgi.com>  Subject: Re: Blade architectures/ Message-ID: <3CA1C152.5050801@brussels.sgi.com>   ( Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy wrote: > F > Temperature is a big issue which is why most of the blades announcedI > are using relatively slow CPU's. Packaging is also an issue, bare board F > systems which some vendors are proposing are less safe to replace as  > a FRU than canisterised units. > K And none announce at what *effective* speed they will run when everything's B packed and operating. A SpeedStep capable PIII mobile at 700MHz is- really only one running at *up to* 700MHz ;).   ? <these messages express my own views, not those of my employer> ) Alexis Cousein				Senior Systems Engineer . SGI Belgium and Luxemburg		al@brussels.sgi.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 17:08:20 +0000 T From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <andrew_nospam.remove_this.harrison@sun.com>  Subject: Re: Blade architectures& Message-ID: <3CA1FC84.7020901@sun.com>   Patrick Schaaf wrote:   % > Erik Corry <erik@arbat.com> writes: @ >>I suppose IBM's several-thousand-Linux-machines-on-a-mainframe$ >>solves a lot of the same problems. >> > < > At the very high end, for very underutilized servers, yes.< > An S/390 is basically a 16 processor SMP system, with each9 > processor comparable to a P-III. There's only that much 8 > CPU bound jobs you can throw at it before user latency > gets too big.  >       6 The Linux ready mainframe from IBM only currently goes to 4 CPU's and 16 GB of RAM.  6 The processors are faster than a P-III, Meta group did4 some sizing between UNIX servers and S390's and they2 ended up with the S390 CPU's being roughly 2 x the performance.  6 However Linux isn't a great choice for a virtulised os7 for a number of reasons and numbers I have seen suggest 5 that if you were running Linux on an S390 rather than 5 MVS you would be getting less than the performance of  a P-III.  3 If you then factor in the cost of the S390, a 4 CPU 4 z800 2066 (Linux ready mainframe) lists for ~800,0002 dollars you realise that you could buy a 4 CPU Sun0 which would be faster or a 4 CPU Compaq Proliant6 for less than the cost of the first years maintenance.  4 Anyone who thinks the Linux on a mainframe is a good8 idea must have deep pockets and little or no shareholder	 scrutiny.r   Regards  Andrew Harrisont   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 12:51:51 -0500o- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>   Subject: Re: Blade architectures, Message-ID: <3CA206A6.27A21421@videotron.ca>  ( Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy wrote:5 > If you then factor in the cost of the S390, a 4 CPUM6 > z800 2066 (Linux ready mainframe) lists for ~800,0004 > dollars you realise that you could buy a 4 CPU Sun2 > which would be faster or a 4 CPU Compaq Proliant8 > for less than the cost of the first years maintenance.  L But if you are some ISP that hosts websites, the ability to have a gazillionH independant instances of Linux on a single box would be great since eachJ customer gets their own instance of the OS that they can do what they want with.   F And if VM can dynamically adapt to varying loads, it means that if oneK customer has a peak while another isn't busy, the busy customer gets betterEJ performance. If you have each customer on his own wintel box, you can't do that type of stuff.r  6 > Anyone who thinks the Linux on a mainframe is a good: > idea must have deep pockets and little or no shareholder > scrutiny.E  M There may be a few instances where this setup has value. But overall, I thinkhL this is more of a strategy by IBM to show the world that it can do more than MVS and SNA.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 18:05:02 +0000sT From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <andrew_nospam.remove_this.harrison@sun.com>  Subject: Re: Blade architectures& Message-ID: <3CA209CE.8090408@sun.com>   Alexis Cousein wrote:m  * > Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy wrote: >  >>G >> Temperature is a big issue which is why most of the blades announced J >> are using relatively slow CPU's. Packaging is also an issue, bare boardG >> systems which some vendors are proposing are less safe to replace asu! >> a FRU than canisterised units.  >>M > And none announce at what *effective* speed they will run when everything'siD > packed and operating. A SpeedStep capable PIII mobile at 700MHz is/ > really only one running at *up to* 700MHz ;).o >     6 Lets hope the Intel blades arn't using a certain large8 disk manufacturers Drives. If the report in The Register6 was true you would be combining a processor that might7 run at 700 Mhz but would prefer to run at somewhat lesst7 than that with a disk that might run for 24 hours a day  but would prefer to run for 8.  4 Mind you you could have 2/3rds of your blade servers4 turned off at any one time to ensure that the drives2 dont wear out and the CPU's run at a decent speed.  4 Now what was the point of a blade server, I forget ? :):)     Regardso   Andrew Harrison    ------------------------------   Date: 27 Mar 2002 07:38:35 GMT- From: djweath@attglobal.net (Dave Weatherall)A Subject: Re: C++ objectt5 Message-ID: <DTiotGxQ0bj6-pn2-n2xRXzjmlddk@localhost>e  C On Tue, 26 Mar 2002 17:39:26 UTC, prune@ZAnkh-Morpork.mv.com (Paul   Winalski) wrote:  A > On 26 Mar 2002 06:32:04 -0800, wingwong@witty.com (wing) wrote:  > C > >Is there any command to show the compilation qualifier of an C++l
 > >object? > > @ > >What I am trying to do is to check if C++ objects compilationG > >qualifier are /nodebug/optimize or /debug/nooptimize for performancef > >test. > G > Afraid not.  This information isn't recorded anywhere in a VMS objecto > file.  > ---------- > Remove 'Z' to reply by email.    $ ANALYZE /OBJ /DST/TBT   D will tell you if/what Debugging/Traceback information in the object  module.   C I always thought it would be neat if ANA /MHD gave you the command o4 line, in the same way as the .LST file usually does.   -- e Cheers - Dave.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 12:19:25 +0100 ( From: Paul Sture <paul.sture@bluewin.ch> Subject: Re: DCPS version 2.0 ) Message-ID: <3CA1AABD.9020302@bluewin.ch>s   Paul Anderson wrote:  7 > In article <3C9605F1.91D9A34A@videotron.ca>, JF Mezeie' > <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote:n >  > N >>Is there a valid reason why it couldn't be downloadable from the vms web/ftpE >>site ? Sounds like a perfect candidate for such an endeavour to me.C >> > A > I was going to say that no Compaq OpenVMS layered products were1I > available on the Web, but the Web server and browser software (CSWS andiA > CSWB) are.  Are there other layered products that are regularlye > available for download?  >  Not the standard set AFAIK. The Java and Perl stuff is also available, but it seems logical to consider them as part of the CSWS / CSWB group of products.     -- W __
 Paul Sture Switzerland    ------------------------------   Date: 27 Mar 2002 10:08:01 GMT6 From: DAVISM@er6.eng.ohio-state.edu (Michael T. Davis)5 Subject: Does the PIPE command use a new entity type?r: Message-ID: <a7s5m1$7qq$1@charm.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>  A 	If you use the VERB utility to examine the PIPE command, you getc/ the following (under OVMS/Alpha 7.2-1, anyway):R   define verb PIPE    cliroutine SHELLg    prefix CLI$K_PIPE_0&    parameter P1, prompt="pipe command"       value (required,type=)    qualifier TRUSTED    qualifier SYMBOLS, defaultE#    qualifier LOGICAL_NAMES, defaultg%    qualifier PRIVILEGES, nonnegatable=&       value (required,type=PIPE_PRIVS)   define type PIPE_PRIVS    keyword CURRENT    keyword AUTHORIZED   K Does the "type=" portion of the definition for the (first) parameter to the G PIPE command imply that a new type is now in use, or is this just a bugaL in VERB?  If it matters, the version of VERB in use here was just downloaded
 today from...   D            http://vms.process.com/scripts/fileserv/fileserv.com?VERB   Thanks,o  Mike: --K              Michael T. Davis              |    Systems Specialist: ChE,MSE3N   E-mail: davism@er6.eng.ohio-state.edu    | Departmental Networking/ComputingJ            -or- DAVISM+@osu.edu            |     The Ohio State UniversityJ http://www.er6.eng.ohio-state.edu/~davism/ |     197 Watts, (614) 292-6928   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 09:52:19 -0500 - From: "Peter Weaver" <peter.weaver@stelco.ca>F9 Subject: Re: Does the PIPE command use a new entity type?S1 Message-ID: <Q0lo8.6751$je5.51590@nnrp1.uunet.ca>d  C "Michael T. Davis" <DAVISM@er6.eng.ohio-state.edu> wrote in messageD4 news:a7s5m1$7qq$1@charm.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu... >...I > Does the "type=" portion of the definition for the (first) parameter to" thezI > PIPE command imply that a new type is now in use, or is this just a bug<C > in VERB?  If it matters, the version of VERB in use here was just3
 downloaded > today from..." >FF >            http://vms.process.com/scripts/fileserv/fileserv.com?VERB >...  C I would say that you have a problem with VERB, you should see this;2&    value (required,type=$rest_of_line)  / The version of VERB I have is from 24-AUG-1994./  H You can try VERB CA or VERB DIAGNOSE depending on which tool you have onK your machine (those are the only two commands I can think of off the top ofcK my head that uses the $rest_of_line type) and see what the type is on thosetI two verbs. If they show $rest_of_line but VERB PIPE does not then you mayo have a bigger problem.     -- Peter WeaverL Opinions are my own, and do not reflect the opinions of my employer, nor theK company that it sub-contracts to, nor the company that it sub-contracts to.a   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 13:19:13 -0500a* From: John Reagan <john.reagan@compaq.com>9 Subject: Re: Does the PIPE command use a new entity type?0) Message-ID: <3CA20D21.4030201@compaq.com>s   Michael T. Davis wrote:2   > M > Does the "type=" portion of the definition for the (first) parameter to theaI > PIPE command imply that a new type is now in use, or is this just a bugfN > in VERB?  If it matters, the version of VERB in use here was just downloaded > today from...  > F >            http://vms.process.com/scripts/fileserv/fileserv.com?VERB >   G It does indeed appear to have a new type.  Here's PIPE's .CLD from the =D source (I hope I don't get into trouble... :-) )  and nobody should H start sending me mail asking for other random pieces of source code.  I G suspect this is all buried in the listings CDROM (I can't imagine this Y piece being censored).   define verb pipe          cliroutine      shell          prefix cli$k_pipe_=$          parameter p1, prompt="pipe 4 command",value(required,type=$rest_of_line_noupcase)           qualifier       trusted0          qualifier       symbols,        DEFAULT0          qualifier       logical_names,  DEFAULTA          qualifier       privileges,nonnegatable,value(required, N type=pipe_privs)     define type pipe_privs          keyword current          keyword authorized     E I have no idea what $rest_of_line_noupcase does (other than what the <F name implies).  If it isn't documented, then I don't suggest using it.       --   John Reagan<' Compaq Pascal/{A|I}MACRO Project Leader=   ------------------------------    Date: 27 Mar 2002 06:23:25 -0800( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski) Subject: Re: Good IBM Ad= Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0203270623.4664bc0a@posting.google.com>0  j "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net> wrote in message news:<Tmao8.131770$702.25927@sccrnsc02>...> > "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote in message# > news:3CA12FEB.C70B2BFC@fsi.net...= > > "Stuart, Ed" wrote:o > > ><N > > > Looks like IBM hires marketing firms that deliver.  The back page of theM > > > current issue of Computerworld has an ad for their eserver series.  Theo >  adnL > > > says "Runs UNIX. Runs LINUX. And runs runs runs runs runs runs...."  AK > > > concept like this would have worked well for OpenVMS on AlphaServers.s > >DG > > Nah - might have made them a pile of money, which is the last thing ; > > anyone at the Q wants to see either OVMS or Alpha do...e > N > Umm, I would venture to guess that Mark Gorham, Sue Skonetski, and the UsualF > Compaq Lurkers in comp.os.vms would like to see VMS make big bags of
 > money...  F I still don't understand why IBM didn't step in and make a hostile bidH for Q ... w/alpha vms tru64 they would have ruled the high end world ...   ------------------------------    Date: 27 Mar 2002 06:21:28 -0800( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski) Subject: Re: Good IBM Ad= Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0203270621.64b3a277@posting.google.com>p  j "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net> wrote in message news:<Tmao8.131770$702.25927@sccrnsc02>...> > "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote in message# > news:3CA12FEB.C70B2BFC@fsi.net...  > > "Stuart, Ed" wrote:- > > >-N > > > Looks like IBM hires marketing firms that deliver.  The back page of theM > > > current issue of Computerworld has an ad for their eserver series.  Thep >  adgL > > > says "Runs UNIX. Runs LINUX. And runs runs runs runs runs runs...."  AK > > > concept like this would have worked well for OpenVMS on AlphaServers.> > >rG > > Nah - might have made them a pile of money, which is the last thingt; > > anyone at the Q wants to see either OVMS or Alpha do...o > N > Umm, I would venture to guess that Mark Gorham, Sue Skonetski, and the UsualF > Compaq Lurkers in comp.os.vms would like to see VMS make big bags of
 > money...  L what good is that when they can't do anything because bill gates pc cronniesG curly and carly work for microsoft and intel and don't want vms to makey	 money ...    ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 14:45:00 GMTr4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net> Subject: Re: Good IBM Ad. Message-ID: <MVko8.136767$702.26043@sccrnsc02>  5 "Bob Ceculski" <bob@instantwhip.com> wrote in messagee7 news:d7791aa1.0203270621.64b3a277@posting.google.com...dA > "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net> wrote in message * news:<Tmao8.131770$702.25927@sccrnsc02>...@ > > "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote in message% > > news:3CA12FEB.C70B2BFC@fsi.net...e > > > "Stuart, Ed" wrote:  > > > >-L > > > > Looks like IBM hires marketing firms that deliver.  The back page of thezJ > > > > current issue of Computerworld has an ad for their eserver series. Thes > >  adnK > > > > says "Runs UNIX. Runs LINUX. And runs runs runs runs runs runs...."0 A ? > > > > concept like this would have worked well for OpenVMS onr
 AlphaServers.w > > > I > > > Nah - might have made them a pile of money, which is the last thingr= > > > anyone at the Q wants to see either OVMS or Alpha do...i > >CJ > > Umm, I would venture to guess that Mark Gorham, Sue Skonetski, and the UsualaH > > Compaq Lurkers in comp.os.vms would like to see VMS make big bags of > > money... >tE > what good is that when they can't do anything because bill gates pcl cronniesI > curly and carly work for microsoft and intel and don't want vms to make  > money ...   J If curly anf carly work for Wintel, why have they not dumped NSK? It makesL money, probably even a little more money than VMS makes. (NSD did $1.3B last, year, up year-over-year, very nice margins).  H And if curly works for Wintel, why is it that CTO Shane Robison elevatedL Linux to Program Office status last year, right about the time a whole bunch of Windoze loyalists got nuked?    Just wondering...    ------------------------------   Date: 27 Mar 2002 15:45:44 GMT1 From: bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)g Subject: Re: Good IBM Ad, Message-ID: <a7spf8$10bn$1@info.cs.uofs.edu>  = In article <d7791aa1.0203270623.4664bc0a@posting.google.com>,e+  bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski) writes:h |> eI |> I still don't understand why IBM didn't step in and make a hostile bidtK |> for Q ... w/alpha vms tru64 they would have ruled the high end world ...n  H Probably because with alpha vms tru64 dead at the hands of Compaq and HP? they will accomplish the same thing without spending the money.i   bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   t   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 17:35:01 GMTu4 From: Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@blueyonder.co.uk> Subject: Re: Good IBM Ad0 Message-ID: <3CA20170.21D27221@blueyonder.co.uk>   "Terry C. Shannon" wrote:R > > > "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote in message# > news:3CA12FEB.C70B2BFC@fsi.net...' > > "Stuart, Ed" wrote: G > > Nah - might have made them a pile of money, which is the last thing*; > > anyone at the Q wants to see either OVMS or Alpha do...o > N > Umm, I would venture to guess that Mark Gorham, Sue Skonetski, and the UsualF > Compaq Lurkers in comp.os.vms would like to see VMS make big bags of
 > money...  E just how are they going to do that without targeting new or recently _ discarded markets?   regards. --   tim.llewellyn@blueyonder.co.uk    F * tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.uk address will cease to work June 2002 *   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 17:49:27 GMTx4 From: Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@blueyonder.co.uk> Subject: Re: Good IBM Ad0 Message-ID: <3CA204D1.6705BC4D@blueyonder.co.uk>   "Terry C. Shannon" wrote:   p > L > If curly anf carly work for Wintel, why have they not dumped NSK? It makesN > money, probably even a little more money than VMS makes. (NSD did $1.3B last. > year, up year-over-year, very nice margins). >   F NSK is not a potential rival to M$ (and linux) at the mid and low end?  D Well, you asked Terry. Not saying I believe the conspiracy theories, but having an open mind helps.  J > And if curly works for Wintel, why is it that CTO Shane Robison elevatedN > Linux to Program Office status last year, right about the time a whole bunch! > of Windoze loyalists got nuked?n  F Its an empire building, dog eat dog world out there in Compaq land :-)   >  > Just wondering...u   -- a tim.llewellyn@blueyonder.co.uk    F * Tim.Llewellyn@cableinet.co.uk address will cease to work June 2002 *   ------------------------------  + Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 19:18:06 +0100 (MET)l9 From: Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>. Subject: Re: Good IBM Ad; Message-ID: <01KFV73UZTS68ZRGPU@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>n  G > Not saying I believe the conspiracy theories, but having an open mind-	 > helps. -  F Of course, just because you're paranoid doesn't mean that they're NOT  out to get you.  :-)   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 18:28:02 GMT1* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> Subject: Re: Good IBM Ad@ Message-ID: <Saoo8.89135$7b.8015756@bin7.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>  ? "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net> wrote in messagec( news:MVko8.136767$702.26043@sccrnsc02...   ...a  L > If curly anf carly work for Wintel, why have they not dumped NSK? It makesI > money, probably even a little more money than VMS makes. (NSD did $1.3Bl last. > year, up year-over-year, very nice margins).  L Since Compaq claimed publicly just a couple of months ago in its response toE the Gartner critique of VMS that VMS generates $2 billion annually iniJ service revenues alone (you know, the kind of revenue Carly&Curly say theyJ like best because of its great margins), that statement seems questionableI at best.  Unless, of course, VMS sales *have* taken a dramatic dive sincekJ the Alphacide and merger debacles, but IIRC you've been one of those who's" suggested that that's pure bunk...   - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 13:21:11 +0100s( From: Paul Sture <paul.sture@bluewin.ch>) Subject: Re: Hacker Using My Mail Server?.) Message-ID: <3CA1B937.3020108@bluewin.ch>    Rob Young wrote:   [snip] > 
 > 	Yeah... > $ > 	Here is a link on how they do it: > , > http://blank.org/memory/busted/fishing.htm > L > I'm going to go in to great detail on this. In a nutshell Premier ServicesI > creates a fake AOL look-a-like web page, and then spams it to AOL emailiM > addresses. The spam claims AOL lost it's customer information and needs thewP > user to re-input his username and password. It offers the user a free month ofO > Internet access for correctly entering in his infornmation in to the provided O > HTML link. The information is then emailed off to some web based account thataQ > eventually forwards in to the the waiting hands of Premier Services. Stolen AOL M > accounts and copies of the web page were found on the hard drives of RodonaaM > Garst, Shary Valentine, and Lin Valentine. You can download the actual HTMLrO > source created and used by Premier Services by clicking here. The HTML source L > is archived in tar and gunzip format. To download it you may need to right6 > click on the link and then left click on "Save as". P >   In all I recovered over 1300 AOL usernames and passwords. I turned them overJ > to AOL security along with Premier Services contact information. PremierG > Services refers to the act of stealing AOL usernames and passwords asrO > "fishing". It is referred to several times in the ICQ chat logs between Shary O > Valentine (Aspen) and Shannon Redmond. Fishing is also referenced in the chatD > logs with the symbol "<><".  > ; Going slightly off topic, but still on the subject of spam,.  E a nasty trick to verify your email account is active (i.e. even more w* valuable to the spammers) can be found at:  & http://www.nthelp.com/OEtest/oe119.htm  I This article contains a facility to generate an example mail to your own CE address, and see the logged results after you have viewed that email.o  E Not just limited to Lookout either: "For those of you who read about sI this in the inquirer,  it's not just Outlook that's vulnerable, gecko on 'I Linux, Netscape, AOL, there are a bunch of email programs that are being e exploited by the spammers."   I I've just tried this from Linux using Kmail to view the mail. No problem eF there, as Kmail (at least the way I have it set), simply displays the H html as text. However, clicking on the offending link _does_ place that  info in the logs.   F PS - if you are twitchy about submitting your address to this test, I B can only say that I have in the past worked with this guy and _I_ E believe him to be honest when he says he is not harvesting addresses.j  G However, I do not know who else may have access to his logs, so I used  3 an address which is reserved for such occasions :-)i __
 Paul Sture Switzerlandn   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 15:06:06 GMTo" From: kkal@javakk.com (Ken Kalish)) Subject: Re: Hacker Using My Mail Server?v+ Message-ID: <3ca3df8b.2311967@news.ptd.net>r  M On 24 Mar 2002 09:07:30 -0000, Doc.Cypher <Use-Author-Address-Header@[127.1]>d wrote:  ? >On Sat, 23 Mar 2002, Paul Sture <paul.sture@bluewin.ch> wrote:l >b ><snip>m >o- >>Oh, the joys of being permanently online...W >rK >Indeed, I forgot to set up SMTP rejection rules for Multinet and had to do-I >it whilst being used as an open relay a couple of weeks back. Of course,tL >when I reported the spamming SOB I got no response whatsoever from his ISP,  J the usual procedure in that case, Doc, is to send a complaint to the ISP's, upstream - which you'd get from a traceroute  I >BT. Luckily I got it all closed down before anyone complained to my ISP.I > G >>I have been getting what, as far as I recall from the footprint, are pJ >>nimda attacks. The IP addresses are there loud and clear in the logs. I D >>would be interested to hear what other folks are doing here. Just  >>ignoring or reporting them?  >aL >Yup, I still get those on a regular basis. I just ignore them. Nothing moreE >creative seems to come through in the web logs, and in fact the onlyrL >services people seem to attack are FTP and SMTP. Admittedly I have a lot ofB >failed login attempts, but most are timeouts once people read the
 >WELCOME.TXT.e >s >s >Doc.o   -- o   Regards,  
 Ken Kalish   there is no Java carteli   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 15:03:03 GMTa" From: kkal@javakk.com (Ken Kalish)) Subject: Re: Hacker Using My Mail Server?6+ Message-ID: <3ca2ded3.2128249@news.ptd.net>i  M On Wed, 27 Mar 2002 13:21:11 +0100, Paul Sture <paul.sture@bluewin.ch> wrote:v  	 [snipped]/   >> 6< >Going slightly off topic, but still on the subject of spam, >-F >a nasty trick to verify your email account is active (i.e. even more + >valuable to the spammers) can be found at:F >u' >http://www.nthelp.com/OEtest/oe119.htmw  N there are even free web sites that let you send email with these 'web bugs'. IN believe it was privacyfoundation.org that initially broke this story some time back, and they'd have a list.    > J >This article contains a facility to generate an example mail to your own F >address, and see the logged results after you have viewed that email. > F >Not just limited to Lookout either: "For those of you who read about J >this in the inquirer,  it's not just Outlook that's vulnerable, gecko on J >Linux, Netscape, AOL, there are a bunch of email programs that are being  >exploited by the spammers." >2J >I've just tried this from Linux using Kmail to view the mail. No problem G >there, as Kmail (at least the way I have it set), simply displays the cI >html as text. However, clicking on the offending link _does_ place that n >info in the logs. >yG >PS - if you are twitchy about submitting your address to this test, I tC >can only say that I have in the past worked with this guy and _I_ oF >believe him to be honest when he says he is not harvesting addresses. >aH >However, I do not know who else may have access to his logs, so I used 4 >an address which is reserved for such occasions :-) >__  >Paul Sture- >Switzerland   --     Regards,  
 Ken Kalish   there is no Java cartela   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 14:54:31 -0000e From: sword7@speakeasy.org/ Subject: Help! VT100 emulators - some problems.w/ Message-ID: <ua3n972h3ihg92@corp.supernews.com>e   Hello folks:  D When I logged into OpenVMS 7.2, I have some problems with my varying? X11-based terminal emulators on Redhat Linux 7.2.  Some are notrF compitable with OpenVMS 7.2.  For example, I tried to enter 'type/pageF file.txt', it worked ok but ended up one-line window at bottom screen.B I had to get out of terminal and re-logged back into OpenVMS 7.2.   B Does anyone know any X11-based terminal software for Linux that isH completely compatible with OpenVMS v7.2 system?  How about VT200, VT300,  etc? Eterm? GnomeTerminal? etc..  
 Thank you!   -- Tim Stark   -- n, Timothy Stark	<><	Inet: sword7@speakeasy.orgJ --------------------------------------------------------------------------F "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that H whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.. Amen." -- John 3:16 (King James Version Bible)   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 11:55:37 -0500v- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>t3 Subject: Re: Help! VT100 emulators - some problems.y, Message-ID: <3CA1F97C.F640CCD9@videotron.ca>   sword7@speakeasy.org wrote:t* > For example, I tried to enter 'type/pageH > file.txt', it worked ok but ended up one-line window at bottom screen.C > I had to get out of terminal and re-logged back into OpenVMS 7.2.-  N if you do a SHOW TERMINAL, it may give you a hit of why it isn't working fine.I When you login, VMS typically interrogates the terminal with a few escapeoH sequences to find its capabilities. One of these interrogations involvesH positioning the cursor at line 256 column 256 and asking the terminal toN return the current cursor position (in the hopes that it returns the rightmost9 and bottom most position on the screen: eg: screen size).r    K you can override those settings with SET TERM/PAGE=24/WIDTH=80 for instancew- (or larger numbers if your window is bigger).    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 08:16:03 +0100s2 From: "Johan Michiels" <johan.michiels@compaq.com>J Subject: Re: How does one check to verify all nodes are fully operational?3 Message-ID: <Ukeo8.1541$fL6.30781@news.cpqcorp.net>   7 For the moment, have a look at www.compaq.be/CockpitMgrI   Regards,   Johans   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 12:27:52 +0100o$ From: "Dr. Dweeb" <Dweeb@NoSpam.com>4 Subject: Re: How to know if EDS hires for VMS Eng. ?/ Message-ID: <u0io8.66$JQ3.3355@news.get2net.dk>   
 What about  " DISPLAY WS_BINARY WITH CONVERSION.  ! This will do the trick I believe.-  I Generally, COBOL is much better than its reputation amongst C programmerscI would suggest (and more functionality than you might think).  There is no@G doubt that the worst code I have ever seen was written in PASCAL and C.oJ COBOL programmers tend to be old hands who have learned how to code "well"L and know that one day their code will be maintained - I have yet to meet a CJ programer under 30 who has understood this factoid and the code they write	 shows it.   ? Returning now to programming in progress - we apologise for thed
 inconveniencet   Dweebv  : "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message& news:3CA1402E.62CDBA2B@videotron.ca... > Robert Deininger wrote:oJ > > Why "move subject to text" and "display text" instead of just "display	 subject"?m >pJ > For text stuff, it doesn't really matter, but if you have binary numbersL > (equivalent of short and long in C), you will need to move that value to aK > "formatted" field before printing it (the formatted field defines whether  it" > has leading zeros, decimal etc). >tL > There are also COBOL extensions such as report writer and a screen handler onG > some systems where you need to move the value to the "screen" section. variable > and then display the screen.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 13:41:42 +0100m( From: Paul Sture <paul.sture@bluewin.ch>4 Subject: Re: How to know if EDS hires for VMS Eng. ?) Message-ID: <3CA1BE06.3060904@bluewin.ch>s   Robert Deininger wrote:6  8 > In article <3CA00DC5.8A347193@free.fr>, Didier Morandi! > <Didier.Morandi@free.fr> wrote:e >  >  >>../..o >>Working storage section. >>       01 subject pic x(80). >>       01 text    pic x(80).' >>       01 answer  pic x value "Y","N"t >>Procedure division." >>Main.  >>       move subject to textM >>       display textt >>       accept answer0 >>       if answer = "Y" then goto SpitBrook Rd. >> > ( > I don't know Cobol, but I'm curious... > R > Why "move subject to text" and "display text" instead of just "display subject"? >   E My all time grouse about COBOL is that you have to associate buffers sH with files. You cannot for example read file A into buffer A then write I buffer A to file B, instead having to move buffer A to buffer B, then do i
 the write.  I Whilst there are some powerful statements such as MOVE CORRESPONDING, it aH is quite common to see COBOL programs with scores of MOVE statements to G do a simple record to record copy. The same philosophy applies in JF's s- examples of screen handler and report writer.o  G This is where I typically knock up a bit of DCL or an editing macro or cI two, as it's boring repetitive stuff, quite easily automated if you have e) put some thought into naming conventions.M  A The term "COBOL writer's cramp" might have been derived from the iG comparitive verbosity of the instruction set but IMHO, the real reason l  was all the MOVEs you had to do.   __
 Paul Sture Switzerland    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 08:40:51 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>r4 Subject: Re: How to know if EDS hires for VMS Eng. ?+ Message-ID: <3CA1CBE3.396E6E2@videotron.ca>e   "Dr. Dweeb" wrote: >  > What about > $ > DISPLAY WS_BINARY WITH CONVERSION.  F This may work for the DISPLAY command, but it wouldn't work if you areH assembling a record and use the WRITE command to write the contents of aL record. WRITE won't convert any values. It will just write N bytes to a file$ with N being the size of the record.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 08:53:42 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>-4 Subject: Re: How to know if EDS hires for VMS Eng. ?, Message-ID: <3CA1CEE4.CDEF22B2@videotron.ca>   Paul Sture wrote:oF > My all time grouse about COBOL is that you have to associate buffersI > with files. You cannot for example read file A into buffer A then write-J > buffer A to file B, instead having to move buffer A to buffer B, then do > the write.  J Not that I wish to defend COBOL, but ever heard about READ INTO  and WRITE FROM ?  B Also, if the 2 record buffers are identical, you need not use MOVE2 CORRESPONDING, you simply MOVE RECORD1 TO RECORD2.  L Also, in the report generator, when you define the layout of the report, you include stuff such ase   01 LINE-05. + 	COLUMN 35	PIC $$$$$9.99 SOURCE PAY-AMOUNT.   I And when you GENERATE LINE-05 , it will automatically take the value fromtL PAY-AMOUNT and format it for you. That part of COBOL was very nice. The itemI you GENERATE might be a multi-line item. And Cobol takes care of countingeL lines and skipping to new page and write the header and footer for the pages for you.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 14:50:49 +01000$ From: "Dr. Dweeb" <Dweeb@NoSpam.com>4 Subject: Re: How to know if EDS hires for VMS Eng. ?/ Message-ID: <v6ko8.82$JQ3.4391@news.get2net.dk>:  D Like everything else, when you know what you are doing, its easy :-)   Dweeb.: "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message& news:3CA1CEE4.CDEF22B2@videotron.ca... > Paul Sture wrote:vH > > My all time grouse about COBOL is that you have to associate buffersK > > with files. You cannot for example read file A into buffer A then writenL > > buffer A to file B, instead having to move buffer A to buffer B, then do > > the write. >eL > Not that I wish to defend COBOL, but ever heard about READ INTO  and WRITE > FROM ? >TD > Also, if the 2 record buffers are identical, you need not use MOVE4 > CORRESPONDING, you simply MOVE RECORD1 TO RECORD2. >sJ > Also, in the report generator, when you define the layout of the report, youd > include stuff such asi >.
 > 01 LINE-05.., > COLUMN 35 PIC $$$$$9.99 SOURCE PAY-AMOUNT. >aK > And when you GENERATE LINE-05 , it will automatically take the value from-I > PAY-AMOUNT and format it for you. That part of COBOL was very nice. Theb itemK > you GENERATE might be a multi-line item. And Cobol takes care of countingKH > lines and skipping to new page and write the header and footer for the pagesr
 > for you.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 15:35:03 +0100r( From: Paul Sture <paul.sture@bluewin.ch>4 Subject: Re: How to know if EDS hires for VMS Eng. ?) Message-ID: <3CA1D897.5060902@bluewin.ch>    Dr. Dweeb wrote:   > What about > $ > DISPLAY WS_BINARY WITH CONVERSION. > # > This will do the trick I believe.n >.   Not forgetting   ACCEPT WITH CONVERSION.a  " Might as well do the job properly:  
 Format 3 -   ACCEPT dest-item= {|                  { line-num                      }      |} = {| FROM LINE NUMBER { line-id [ PLUS [ plus-num ] ] }      |}y= {|                  { PLUS [ plus-num ]             }      |}a= {|                    { column-num                       } |}c= {| FROM COLUMN NUMBER { column-id [ PLUS [ plus-num ] ]  } |} = {|                    { PLUS [ plus-num ]                } |}s= {| ERASE [TO END OF] { SCREEN }                            |}e= {|                   { LINE   }                            |}i= {| WITH BELL                                               |}r= {| UNDERLINED                                              |} = {| BOLD                                                    |}.= {| WITH BLINKING                                           |} = {| PROTECTED [| SIZE { prot-size-lit  }   |]               |}c= {|           [|      { prot-size-item }   |]               |}A= {|           [| WITH AUTOTERMINATE        |]               |} = {|           [| WITH EDITING              |]               |}/= {|           [| WITH NO BLANK             |]               |}t= {|           [| WITH FILLER prot-fill-lit |]               |}e= {| WITH CONVERSION                                         |}i= {| REVERSED                                                |}t= {| WITH NO ECHO                                            |}d= {| DEFAULT IS { def-src-lit   }                            |}r= {|            { def-src-item  }                            |}l= {|            { CURRENT VALUE }                            |}u= {| CONTROL KEY IN key-dest-item                            |}P  8 { [ ON EXCEPTION stment ] [ NOT ON EXCEPTION stment  ] }8 { [ AT END stment ] [ NOT AT END stment  ]             }      [ END-ACCEPT ]   I But with your example you are doing each input an output yourself. As JF yF points out an alternative is to describe a complete screen and simply ( ask COBOL to process the screen for you.    eK > Generally, COBOL is much better than its reputation amongst C programmersl> > would suggest (and more functionality than you might think).    E Agreed. One limitation is that comments take a full line - you can't PE simply append a comment to the end of a line, which can lead to huge w  chunks of code without comments.  
 > There is nomI > doubt that the worst code I have ever seen was written in PASCAL and C.mL > COBOL programmers tend to be old hands who have learned how to code "well"N > and know that one day their code will be maintained - I have yet to meet a CL > programer under 30 who has understood this factoid and the code they write > shows it.e >u  F Indeed, maintainability rather than "neat tricks" is the order of the I day. This old COBOL hand reviews his code with the following question in l: mind "How easy is this to understand at 3 in the morning?"    A > Returning now to programming in progress - we apologise for the  > inconvenience' >  > Dweebt > < > "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message( > news:3CA1402E.62CDBA2B@videotron.ca... >  >>Robert Deininger wrote:  >>I >>>Why "move subject to text" and "display text" instead of just "display  >>>, > subject"?  > J >>For text stuff, it doesn't really matter, but if you have binary numbersL >>(equivalent of short and long in C), you will need to move that value to aK >>"formatted" field before printing it (the formatted field defines whethera >> > it > " >>has leading zeros, decimal etc). >>L >>There are also COBOL extensions such as report writer and a screen handler >> > on > G >>some systems where you need to move the value to the "screen" section  >>
 > variable >  >>and then display the screen. >> >  >        -- - __
 Paul Sture Switzerland    ------------------------------   Date: 27 Mar 2002 14:02:19 GMT1 From: bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)-4 Subject: Re: How to know if EDS hires for VMS Eng. ?+ Message-ID: <a7sjdb$tu1$1@info.cs.uofs.edu>s  J In article <rdeininger-2603022120210001@1cust49.tnt4.nashua.nh.da.uu.net>,5  rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger) writes:e9 |> In article <3CA00DC5.8A347193@free.fr>, Didier Morandi " |> <Didier.Morandi@free.fr> wrote: |>  	 |> >../..  |> >Working storage section.! |> >        01 subject pic x(80).r! |> >        01 text    pic x(80). * |> >        01 answer  pic x value "Y","N" |> >Procedure division. 	 |> >Main.e  |> >        move subject to text |> >        display text |> >        accept answere3 |> >        if answer = "Y" then goto SpitBrook Rd.n |> p) |> I don't know Cobol, but I'm curious...n |> tS |> Why "move subject to text" and "display text" instead of just "display subject"?   A Well, my first guess would be that the person who wrote it didn'thB know COBOL either.  Further evidenced by the fact that there is noH "goto" om COBOL.  It's "GO TO" as in two words, not one.             :-)   bill   -- tJ Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   o   ------------------------------   Date: 27 Mar 2002 14:06:28 GMT1 From: bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)04 Subject: Re: How to know if EDS hires for VMS Eng. ?+ Message-ID: <a7sjl4$tu1$2@info.cs.uofs.edu>e  , In article <3CA1402E.62CDBA2B@videotron.ca>,0  JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> writes: |> Robert Deininger wrote:U |> > Why "move subject to text" and "display text" instead of just "display subject"?  |> sK |> For text stuff, it doesn't really matter, but if you have binary numbersoM |> (equivalent of short and long in C), you will need to move that value to a O |> "formatted" field before printing it (the formatted field defines whether it # |> has leading zeros, decimal etc).t |> n9 |> There are also COBOL extensions such as report writer    K Report Writer is not an extension to COBOL it is and has been a part of theyK language for ages.  But COBOL supports levels and many implementors qualifyiF under the lower levels which lets them not implement certain features.  Q |>                                                        and a screen handler onLQ |> some systems where you need to move the value to the "screen" section variabled |> and then display the screen.t  J I have never seen a screen handler for COBOL that was not locally written,I but then, I haven't done any serious COBOL since about 1981.  I did enjoy.- it, though and could easily get back into it.    bill   -- iJ Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------   Date: 27 Mar 2002 14:16:05 GMT1 From: bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)o4 Subject: Re: How to know if EDS hires for VMS Eng. ?+ Message-ID: <a7sk75$tu1$3@info.cs.uofs.edu>e  / In article <u0io8.66$JQ3.3355@news.get2net.dk>,2'  "Dr. Dweeb" <Dweeb@NoSpam.com> writes:s
 |> What aboutu |> :% |> DISPLAY WS_BINARY WITH CONVERSION.w |> s$ |> This will do the trick I believe. |> eL |> Generally, COBOL is much better than its reputation amongst C programmers  H Why bring C programmers into this at all??  Most of todays C programmersG have never seen a real COBOL program and very likely don't give it even J a second thought.  I, on the other hand, am a C programmer and see nothing0 wrong with COBOL at all.  But then, I am also a K    {COBOL|Pascal|Ada|PL/I|Algol|Fortran|APL|etc.} programmer and have neveraN held to the belief that there is any "one size fits all" programming language.  L |> would suggest (and more functionality than you might think).  There is noJ |> doubt that the worst code I have ever seen was written in PASCAL and C.  E And, I have deliberately written really bad code in COBOL in order toeH demonstrate that the language doesn't determine the quality of the finalH product. (Hint, at least through 1981 when I last did anything real withG COBOL, there was, by design, no range checking and writting outside the5+ bounds of an array was trivial and common.)i  M |> COBOL programmers tend to be old hands who have learned how to code "well"39 |> and know that one day their code will be maintained - e   Would that it were so.  O |>                                                       I have yet to meet a CtM |> programer under 30 who has understood this factoid and the code they write- |> shows it.  D And that has more to do with thier age and the general philosophy ofC modern life than it does with the C language.  I have seen studentspD write teh same garbage and make the same (logic) mistakes in Ada and) Pascal that are made in C and now, Java. c   bill   -- sJ Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   w   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 16:12:45 +0100-( From: Paul Sture <paul.sture@bluewin.ch>4 Subject: Re: How to know if EDS hires for VMS Eng. ?) Message-ID: <3CA1E16D.2030405@bluewin.ch>r   JF Mezei wrote:u   > Paul Sture wrote:g > F >>My all time grouse about COBOL is that you have to associate buffersI >>with files. You cannot for example read file A into buffer A then write-J >>buffer A to file B, instead having to move buffer A to buffer B, then do >>the write. >> > L > Not that I wish to defend COBOL, but ever heard about READ INTO  and WRITE > FROM ? > D > Also, if the 2 record buffers are identical, you need not use MOVE4 > CORRESPONDING, you simply MOVE RECORD1 TO RECORD2. > N > Also, in the report generator, when you define the layout of the report, you > include stuff such as. >h   Yes. Yes. Yes.  D My observations are based on code I have seen over the years - many B folks got into the habit of doing lots of MOVEs. You also have to E remember that 20 or so years ago (and since), the abilities of COBOL eC compilers varied from manufacturer to manufacturer, so there was a dD tendency to write to the lowest common denominator, for portability.    p
 > 01 LINE-05.d- > 	COLUMN 35	PIC $$$$$9.99 SOURCE PAY-AMOUNT.e > K > And when you GENERATE LINE-05 , it will automatically take the value from N > PAY-AMOUNT and format it for you. That part of COBOL was very nice. The itemK > you GENERATE might be a multi-line item. And Cobol takes care of countingaN > lines and skipping to new page and write the header and footer for the pages
 > for you. >    __
 Paul Sture Switzerlandd   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 11:51:11 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>l4 Subject: Re: How to know if EDS hires for VMS Eng. ?, Message-ID: <3CA1F872.F28F1F9C@videotron.ca>   Paul Sture wrote:eF > Agreed. One limitation is that comments take a full line - you can'tF > simply append a comment to the end of a line, which can lead to huge" > chunks of code without comments.  L But COBOL code is much easier to understand on a line by line basis so there* is a bit less need for line-documentation.  M I still remember at school, one person got a 0 for his assignment even thoughrM it produced the right results. The names he had used for variables/paragraphsc yielded stuff such as:0 	PERFORM AROUSAL THROUGH ORGASM UNTIL EXHAUSTED.  F and:	MOVE HANDS TO BREASTS, MOVE <male bodypart> TO <female bodypart>.  L Interestingly, the output was perfectly serious, but the program, while veryN fun to read, was incomprehensible because the variable names did not correctly reflect they contents.   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 18:47:58 GMTm+ From: Jeff Campbell <jcampbell@ins-msi.com>c4 Subject: Re: How to know if EDS hires for VMS Eng. ?+ Message-ID: <3CA20A40.34D31AE5@ins-msi.com>t   Paul Sture wrote:i >  > Robert Deininger wrote:, > : > ? In article ?3CA00DC5.8A347193@free.fr?, Didier Morandi# > ? ?Didier.Morandi@free.fr? wrote:  > ?i > ?m	 > ??../..C > ??Working storage section.  > ??       01 subject pic x(80).  > ??       01 text    pic x(80).) > ??       01 answer  pic x value "Y","N"n > ??Procedure division.r	 > ??Main.i > ??       move subject to textt > ??       display textr > ??       accept answer2 > ??       if answer = "Y" then goto SpitBrook Rd. > ?? > ?o* > ? I don't know Cobol, but I'm curious... > ?"T > ? Why "move subject to text" and "display text" instead of just "display subject"? > ?r > F > My all time grouse about COBOL is that you have to associate buffersI > with files. You cannot for example read file A into buffer A then write,J > buffer A to file B, instead having to move buffer A to buffer B, then do > the write.   Sure you can...       Environment division.    input-output section.    i-o-control.D.       same record area for file-1 file-2 [...]         .   + Read file-1 write file-2. No move required.A   > J > Whilst there are some powerful statements such as MOVE CORRESPONDING, itI > is quite common to see COBOL programs with scores of MOVE statements to H > do a simple record to record copy. The same philosophy applies in JF's/ > examples of screen handler and report writer.2 > H > This is where I typically knock up a bit of DCL or an editing macro orJ > two, as it's boring repetitive stuff, quite easily automated if you have+ > put some thought into naming conventions.  > B > The term "COBOL writer's cramp" might have been derived from theH > comparitive verbosity of the instruction set but IMHO, the real reason" > was all the MOVEs you had to do. >  > __ > Paul Sture
 > Switzerland   
 Jeff Campbello n8wxs@arrl.net   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 09:46:53 +0000f% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>uO Subject: Re: HP's viewpoint on Linux, was: Re: Sun eating major helping ofLinuxn8 Message-ID: <5653auopv22ihs3jg40p5k1p57fmbop5kr@4ax.com>  @ On 26 Mar 2002 22:56:26 -0800, Brannon_Batson@yahoo.com (Brannon Batson) wrote:  q >"Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> wrote in message news:<qP2o8.1523$fL6.29568@news.cpqcorp.net>...fM >> Call me "Freddy Boy" one more time, and I may need to fly to the UK for ant >> international incident. >>  	 >> [snip]e >i> >Why didn't we think to resort to violence in the first place? >e >Brannon >not speaking for Intel-   Celebrity IT Deathmatch, -- Alan   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 13:46:01 +0100t( From: Paul Sture <paul.sture@bluewin.ch>O Subject: Re: HP's viewpoint on Linux, was: Re: Sun eating major helping ofLinux ) Message-ID: <3CA1BF09.7020904@bluewin.ch>    Fred Kleinsorge wrote:  	 > We did?a >   E Nah, didn't miss it a bit. I do recall certain people noting that he eF wasn't around to bash when they felt in a bad mood about something :-)     > 8 > "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@Compaq.com> wrote in messageN > news:BE56C50EA024184DAF48F0B9A47F5CF4016CEC67@kaoexc01.americas.cpqcorp.net. > ..	 > Andrew,  > ) > Welcome back .. I missed your feedback.O > 	 > :-) :-)e > 	 > RegardsI >  >  >  >  >        --   __
 Paul Sture Switzerland    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 13:09:13 +0000RT From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <andrew_nospam.remove_this.harrison@sun.com>O Subject: Re: HP's viewpoint on Linux, was: Re: Sun eating major helping ofLinux$& Message-ID: <3CA1C479.6090307@sun.com>   JF Mezei wrote:0  * > Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy wrote: > 2 >>I had always assumed you performed some nameless2 >>function in Compaq Marketing along with Kerry my9 >>absolute favourite Compaq Marketing, are you suggestinga >>that this isn't the case ??h >> >  > K > Hey Andrew, don't go against the 2 or 3 Compaq employees who volunteer to(P > market VMS, against their employer's wishes. It is the only VMS marketing that > exists... :-)r >     3 Kerry does a fine job, bit limitted but better thany not having marketing at all.  1 jlsue falls into the same category as the guy who'5 didn't want Compaq to do COE, can't remember his namet3 but he ranted on and on for what seemed like a yearh6 without demonstrating anything other than a good grasp of anglo-saxon swear words.    Regardss Andrew Harrisono   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 13:04:24 +0000oT From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <andrew_nospam.remove_this.harrison@sun.com>O Subject: Re: HP's viewpoint on Linux, was: Re: Sun eating major helping ofLinux $ Message-ID: <3CA1C358.70601@sun.com>   Fred Kleinsorge wrote:  L > Call me "Freddy Boy" one more time, and I may need to fly to the UK for an > international incident.o >     2 If you want me to stop calling you Freddy boy then0 grow up, stop using arguments that a small child/ would be proud of and try to cut the ad-hominem  attacks.  - Until then get used to bing called Freddy Boyn you have earned it.c    + > Go find something useful to do, Sun wipe.. >     5 The same might well be said of you. How about ceasingn5 to post replies that betray your lack of knowledge of : subjects which are clearly not in your area of competence.  ? Trust me Linux/Solaris/Systems Performance/Systems Architectureu: Enterprise Platforms etc are not your strong points unless/ you have knowledge you are deliberately hiding.0  4 Shouldn't you be working on a more plausible OpenVMS: strategy than the one you currently have on offer. Believe; me your commercial customers are not impressed. I have just 7 come back from a meeting between a bank here in the UK,n9 Sun and an ISV, their SW runs on Solaris and OpenVMS, ther6 ISV was told in no uncertain terms by the customer and: un-prompted by anyone from Sun that Alpha is dead, OpenVMS; is dead and they will not be paying to migrate to IA64. The : intends to migrate the app from OpenVMS to Solaris we will be assisting them.  : The demise of Alpha was apparently the nail in the coffin.   regardsu Andrew Harrison.     > % > "Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy"d? > <andrew_nospam.remove_this.harrison@sun.com> wrote in message " > news:3CA0A40E.7070809@sun.com... >  >> >>Fred Kleinsorge wrote: >> >>5 >>>Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy wrote in message   >>><3C9F5B5A.4080804@sun.com>... >>>w >>>d >>>>Fred Kleinsorge wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>>7 >>>>>Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy wrote in message " >>>>><3C9B5150.7040403@sun.com>... >>>>>  >>>>>n >>>>>NB >>>>>>As I said if what you have spouted in this thread passes for2 >>>>>>technical argument then call me a sales guy. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>H >>>>>Andy, I've always said you were a putz posing as someone technical. >>>>>p > Your > J >>>>>knowledge is gleaned from the latest marketing flyers and surfing the >>>>>e >>>>>e >>>web.  >>>- >>>-H >>>>>You've passed up every opportunity to trot out your qualifications. >>>>>e > Have > % >>>>>you ever written a line of code?w >>>>>  >>>>>o >>>>>nH >>>>Sorry Freddy, among other things I wrote Sun's HA Clustering ProductK >>>>called HA-RAID not too snappy a name I know but it worked. It pre-datedp> >>>>SunCluster. Its still in use running on SunOS and Solaris. >>>>G >>>>But hell anyone can write fiction in their CV. I generally find itstJ >>>>better not to place to much faith in them. I have met plenty of peopleC >>>>with wonderfull CV's who have turned out to be a total waste ofm
 >>>>space. >>>> >>>> >>>>F >>>Yes, but it gives an interesting baseline, and something to verify. >>>t >>@ >>Really, you apparently have a "technical CV" but you have been@ >>doing your utmost post merger announcment to expunge all signs= >>of having any sort of technical background from your posts.o >> >> >> >>> G >>>>It depends what you call "industry" and it depends what you mean byeJ >>>>performance. Most commercial customers don't care a S**T about SPECint >>>>or SPECfp performance, >>>> >>>>K >>>Wow.  Tell the to Bill Todd.  After all, even you want people to believeM? >>>that IA64 will fail because it doesn't measure up in SpecIntu >>>o >>>  >>> E >>>>As for IA64 and Power, no one knows what IA64 will do performance?D >>>>wise the only thing we do know is that Itanium isn't competitiveA >>>>and clock rates for its sucessor are getting lower so you are(1 >>>>declaring victory way to early on that front.0 >>>> >>>> >>>>9 >>><lots of other Spec related rant about Power4 removed>  >>>vH >>>Hmmm.  Customers don't care about Spec numbers, but IA64 is a failureA >>>because it doesn't meet a Spec number.  Hmmm.  What were those ( >>>pre-ticked-up-compiler Sparc numbers? >>>  >>>m >>> >>Freddy boy, in a tactic that could have been lifted from theC >>Alpha sales handbook the only IA64 benchmarks currently availableo? >>are SPECint and SPECfp, we don't have anything else to go on.e >>< >>What are we to assume when IA64 tanks on SPECint and there< >>are no other integer benchmark results available. Could it@ >>be that the compiler writers at HP and Intel never ran SPECint= >>through their compilers hence the poor performance but they]@ >>decided to publish anyway. Or could it be that SPECint was the< >>major benchmark suite targetted by the same teams but that@ >>performance just wasn't what they were expecting, your choice. >>> >>"pre-ticked-up-compiler Sparc numbers". Do you need a lesson> >>in IA64 and its dependance on optimising compilers to obtain? >>good throughput. I hope not though it isn't obvious from youro >>postings.d >>I >>Many people think that IA64 will not perform well running badly writteniD >>code because of its dependance on compilers to bundle instructions> >>in an optimal way. But you Freddy boy are still happy to lob? >>stones even though IA64 is the glass house you have chosen tos >>reside in. >> >> >> >> >> >>>  >>>  >>>  >  >    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 08:20:11 -0500-5 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com>rO Subject: Re: HP's viewpoint on Linux, was: Re: Sun eating major helping ofLinuxR3 Message-ID: <PMjo8.1554$fL6.30985@news.cpqcorp.net>5   Did I threaten violence?   Brannon Batson wrote in message64 <4495ef1f.0203262256.61253ea8@posting.google.com>...A >"Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> wrote in message / news:<qP2o8.1523$fL6.29568@news.cpqcorp.net>...eJ >> Call me "Freddy Boy" one more time, and I may need to fly to the UK for an >> international incident. >>	 >> [snip]> >n> >Why didn't we think to resort to violence in the first place? >l >Brannon >not speaking for Intelo   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 08:21:37 -0500-5 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com>aO Subject: Re: HP's viewpoint on Linux, was: Re: Sun eating major helping ofLinuxS3 Message-ID: <8Ojo8.1556$fL6.31028@news.cpqcorp.net>0  L Hey Sun wipe.  You doing this on billable time?  Why not go and write a real cluster product.  2 Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy wrote in message <3CA1C358.70601@sun.com>...  >a >o >Fred Kleinsorge wrote:  > J >> Call me "Freddy Boy" one more time, and I may need to fly to the UK for an >> international incident. >> >1 >e3 >If you want me to stop calling you Freddy boy thena1 >grow up, stop using arguments that a small child 0 >would be proud of and try to cut the ad-hominem	 >attacks.w >e. >Until then get used to bing called Freddy Boy >you have earned it. >1   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 14:33:48 +0100s9 From: Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com>aO Subject: Re: HP's viewpoint on Linux, was: Re: Sun eating major helping ofLinux ' Message-ID: <3CA1CA3C.F1E41A0C@aaa.com>l   Fred and Andrew !-  3 This was a bit fun in the begining, but now you areL1 both getting worse then a couple of 5 years boys.   3 Make us all a big favour and stop this thread now !    Best Regards Jan-Erik Sderholm.i       Fred Kleinsorge wrote: > N > Hey Sun wipe.  You doing this on billable time?  Why not go and write a real > cluster product. > 4 > Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy wrote in message > <3CA1C358.70601@sun.com>...? > >s > >D > >Fred Kleinsorge wrote:. > > L > >> Call me "Freddy Boy" one more time, and I may need to fly to the UK for > an > >> international incident. > >> > >  > >o5 > >If you want me to stop calling you Freddy boy theno3 > >grow up, stop using arguments that a small child 2 > >would be proud of and try to cut the ad-hominem > >attacks.| > > 0 > >Until then get used to bing called Freddy Boy > >you have earned it. > >L   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 13:38:49 GMTm4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net>O Subject: Re: HP's viewpoint on Linux, was: Re: Sun eating major helping ofLinux - Message-ID: <JXjo8.144622$q2.14686@sccrnsc01>R  # "Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy"|= <andrew_nospam.remove_this.harrison@sun.com> wrote in message| news:3CA1C358.70601@sun.com... >  <snip>6 > Shouldn't you be working on a more plausible OpenVMS4 > strategy than the one you currently have on offer.  ' That would be a MARKETING function. ;-}    ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 15:00:59 GMTI% From: jlsue <jlsuexxxz@insightbb.com> O Subject: Re: HP's viewpoint on Linux, was: Re: Sun eating major helping ofLinux 8 Message-ID: <obn3aucfgt79rsr6qqmtk9henqebe4542p@4ax.com>  E On Tue, 26 Mar 2002 16:00:30 +0000, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy 3 <andrew_nospam.remove_this.harrison@sun.com> wrote:    >  > 
 >jlsue wrote:t >lH >> On Fri, 22 Mar 2002 15:44:16 +0000, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy6 >> <andrew_nospam.remove_this.harrison@sun.com> wrote: >>   >>   >>  B >>>One attribute of technical people is generally an understanding? >>>of what they indevidually know and don't know. This facilityr= >>>seems to have deserted you, it seems to have happened soonl >>>after the merger. >>>A >>  1 >> My vote for the pot-and-kettle award for 2002.e >> t >e > 2 >You are nominating yourself obviously. Or had you1 >forgotten your long and dishonourable history ofm- >not having much of a clue in a public forum.   @ Andy boy, you are such a joke.  My history is of providing true,F accurate technical information about VMS and VMSclusters... except forC the few, unfortunately necessary side-trips to deal with this tripe 	 from you.e  C And most of those technical discussions were to dispel the crap you F insist on writing in cov  - based on your infinite ignorance about all things VMS.a     > 1 >I had always assumed you performed some namelessy1 >function in Compaq Marketing along with Kerry mye8 >absolute favourite Compaq Marketing, are you suggesting >that this isn't the case ??  F I think it's very telling that nearly all of your most recent notes inC cov have been nothing more than personal attacks on others.  If YOUtE stuck to the real technical details of discussions, we might actuallyr> believe that you have technical capabilities.  But instead youC consistently resort to not-so-humble opinions (that you pass off asa" facts) and these personal attacks.  F If you've got something technical to say, then say it.  Your'e wasting  bandwidth with this other trash.  1 Not speaking for anyone, certainly not DEC/Compaqm- (get rid of the xxxz in my address to e-mail)o   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 11:22:10 -0500r- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>rO Subject: Re: HP's viewpoint on Linux, was: Re: Sun eating major helping ofLinuxd, Message-ID: <3CA1F1A7.80A49D28@videotron.ca>   Fred Kleinsorge wrote: >  > Did I threaten violence?  J Yeah you did. You threathened Andrew to go over to England and stir thingsL up... Sometimes I think you two are married and are having marital fights...Q :-) :-) (Although I think that the 2 female catfight has more "ratings" power...).   :-)>   ------------------------------    Date: 27 Mar 2002 22:06:54 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>O Subject: Re: HP's viewpoint on Linux, was: Re: Sun eating major helping ofLinuxs- Message-ID: <878z8et88x.fsf@prep.synonet.com>a  6 "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net> writes:  < > "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message( > news:3CA0D1ED.1588BD98@videotron.ca... > > Fred Kleinsorge wrote:  D > > Call me "Freddy Boy" one more time, and I may need to fly to the% > > UK for an international incident.u  D > > If you and Andrew were females, I'd ask for someone to accompanyE > > you and film > the ensuing catfight between you and Andrew ... itrF > > could be posted on the vms > web site and boost number of visitors > > to the site...  B > Boost Web site traffic? Sounds like a Marketing trick to me. ;-}  , Another example of profitable e-commerce? ;)   -- >< Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda. @                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 17:44:18 GMTe% From: jlsue <jlsuexxxz@insightbb.com>tO Subject: Re: HP's viewpoint on Linux, was: Re: Sun eating major helping ofLinux:8 Message-ID: <r214au8espcpirt5819fhtdts3rblnj995@4ax.com>  E On Wed, 27 Mar 2002 13:09:13 +0000, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancyh3 <andrew_nospam.remove_this.harrison@sun.com> wrote:t     > 2 >jlsue falls into the same category as the guy who6 >didn't want Compaq to do COE, can't remember his name4 >but he ranted on and on for what seemed like a year7 >without demonstrating anything other than a good grasp  >of anglo-saxon swear words. >   D Yeah, whatever andy-boy.  You wouldn't know a VMS solution if it bitC ya in the arse.  You seem to like these real non sequitur responses F though.  Do the make you *feel* more superior?  You don't know much of( anything that applies to this newsgroup.  1 Not speaking for anyone, certainly not DEC/Compaq - (get rid of the xxxz in my address to e-mail)n   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 18:05:30 GMTd* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>O Subject: Re: HP's viewpoint on Linux, was: Re: Sun eating major helping ofLinuxOB Message-ID: <KRno8.190614$1g.15926609@bin3.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>  @ "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> wrote in message- news:PMjo8.1554$fL6.30985@news.cpqcorp.net...t > Did I threaten violence?  K Absolutely.  In the newly-enlightened attitude of the Shrub administration, J you could be 'indefinitely detained' for such clear terrorist threats, andG all your associates as well.  Of course, if John Ashcroft heard it, you> could be beheaded...   - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 17:50:29 +0000,T From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <andrew_nospam.remove_this.harrison@sun.com>O Subject: Re: HP's viewpoint on Linux, was: Re: Sun eating major helping ofLinux|& Message-ID: <3CA20665.2080101@sun.com>   Paul Sture wrote:a   > Fred Kleinsorge wrote: > 
 >> We did? >> > G > Nah, didn't miss it a bit. I do recall certain people noting that he lH > wasn't around to bash when they felt in a bad mood about something :-) >     < Or put another way I wasn't here to challenge some of the BS+ that some people like to pass off as facts.    Regards    Andrew Harrison$   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 17:57:23 +00002T From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <andrew_nospam.remove_this.harrison@sun.com>O Subject: Re: HP's viewpoint on Linux, was: Re: Sun eating major helping ofLinuxy& Message-ID: <3CA20803.7070807@sun.com>   Fred Kleinsorge wrote:  N > Hey Sun wipe.  You doing this on billable time?  Why not go and write a real > cluster product. >       6 Now thats what I would call a quality, adult response.6 Do you want me to start calling you Freddy Baby, seems like it.:):):)     Regardsa   Andrew Harrison    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 08:35:50 -0500'- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> * Subject: Re: Interesting Alpha advertising, Message-ID: <3CA1CAB6.62E5CF76@videotron.ca>   Bill Todd wrote:E > The blame lies squarely on Curly's stewardship (near three years ofn > consistent failure by now).t  L He is not the only one. Palmer is also to blame. Palmer was in a position ofG strength when he got proof that Intel had stolen Alpha designs. Yet, herL negotiated in a weak position, begging Intel to take the FAB in exchange forP committing to IA64 and forgiving Intel.  (At the time only for Tru64 and Wintel)  G *IF* Pfeiffer saw a future in Alpha, he sure wasn't able to execute it,oG probably bogged down against a big political Wintel wall inside his owni* company that prevented him to do anything.  I Nobody had any expectations from Curly, He is just a spineless accountant0N without much vision who was easy to manipulate remotely. (At first Rosen, then by folks such as Winkler.)   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 13:59:52 GMTi# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> * Subject: Re: Interesting Alpha advertisingH Message-ID: <sfko8.11683$e94.10973@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>  K With the death of Alpha, what we know is that for the next couple of years,lB sales of large-scale Alphaservers to the HPTC crowd will continue.  C After that timeframe, Compaq/HP will have nothing to sell into that J marketspace that technically differentates them, processor-wise, from Dell8 or Gateway. And that will drive all the business to IBM.    ? "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net> wrote in messaged( news:epao8.131786$702.25882@sccrnsc02... > 0 > "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> wrote in messageB > news:Gl6o8.8241$e94.8228@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com...< > > My apologies. My choice of a colorful phrase, not yours. > >eJ > > In that market-space it isn't 'what have you done for me lately', it's > 'howI > > fast is your next box going to be and how low can you get the price'.o > > J > > In any event, without leading edge performance (it's doubtful how fast > earlyoL > > generations of McKinley and its progeny will be) Compaq/HP can kiss thatK > > entire revenue stream goodbye. Funny thing too - it's a growing market.e. > > Guess they just don't want to participate. >AH > For reasons best known to CPQ and its customers, the firm continues to rackF > up HPTC wins with Alpha (some examples are in recent articles on theF > CUO-EMEA site at www.compaqusers.org). One would surmise that anyone buyingI > Alpha today figures that EV7/Marvel will offer leading edge performance: for> > the next several years.a >s > Beyond that, who knows.i >e >g   ------------------------------  + Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 15:54:01 +0100 (MET)f9 From: Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>h* Subject: Re: Interesting Alpha advertising; Message-ID: <01KFUZXJPTS28Y996Y@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>   J > Anyone who buys Alpha (especially wildfire) systems today is just simply> > desperate for a fast chip and doesn't care about long term.   E Right.  CPU-intensive number crunching needs to upgrade the machines  G once or twice a year anyway, so what happens after that doesn't matter.e  F I once read a paper which, assuming Moore's law holds, determined the I whether one should wait for a faster machine or go ahead and compute now p) as a function of the size of the problem.p   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 14:49:48 GMT>4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net>* Subject: Re: Interesting Alpha advertising- Message-ID: <g_ko8.145286$q2.14281@sccrnsc01>e  . "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> wrote in messageB news:sfko8.11683$e94.10973@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com...F > With the death of Alpha, what we know is that for the next couple of years,D > sales of large-scale Alphaservers to the HPTC crowd will continue. >oE > After that timeframe, Compaq/HP will have nothing to sell into thathL > marketspace that technically differentates them, processor-wise, from Dell: > or Gateway. And that will drive all the business to IBM.  J Umm, does Gateway plan to do massively large Itanium SMP systems? And whatH do Dell and Gateway have on the drawing board for processor interconnectL technology, management software, etc, etc? More to the whole thing than just the CPU.  J That said, IBM will be in an enviable position in the HPTC market. RegattaH is a very nice piece of work and should be into its first refresh by the" time Marvel systems actually ship.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 08:07:24 -0800 ' From: David Mathog <mathog@caltech.edu>>* Subject: Re: Interesting Alpha advertising+ Message-ID: <3CA1EE3C.E63D428A@caltech.edu>o   "Terry C. Shannon" wrote:b > 0 > "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> wrote in messageD > news:sfko8.11683$e94.10973@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com...H > > With the death of Alpha, what we know is that for the next couple of > years,F > > sales of large-scale Alphaservers to the HPTC crowd will continue.  L Large-scale Alphaservers are used by the big database/big memory requirementL sector of the HPTC market.  Ie, for those problems that can't be partitioned ontoM numerous smaller machines so all that's left is to keep processors so all cann	 slam awayEM at the same huge gob of data.  That's by far the most expensive kind of HPTC. M I know of only one new Beowulf coming in here in the next few months and it's  nottI going to use Alphas.  Once a problem can be evenly divided across N nodesp there'soG a lot more bang for the buck today with PC technology.  Heck, the newereO Athlons are considerably faster than the DS10s I've got (especially in disk IO,uM where DS10s are woefully underpowered.)  Also, it's often advantageous to putpO a lot of memory onto each node, and that's much cheaper on a PC than on a DS10.e   > > G > > After that timeframe, Compaq/HP will have nothing to sell into thatyN > > marketspace that technically differentates them, processor-wise, from Dell< > > or Gateway. And that will drive all the business to IBM. > L > Umm, does Gateway plan to do massively large Itanium SMP systems? And whatJ > do Dell and Gateway have on the drawing board for processor interconnectN > technology, management software, etc, etc? More to the whole thing than just
 > the CPU.  O Not much more if they go with Hammer technology and hypertransport.  One of then beautiesN of the Hammer architecture is that it builds in hypertransport from the get go whichiM at least potentially makes it both easier and cheaper to snap together an SMPc systemK with decent performance, at least for smallish numbers of CPUs (4, say).  If can't O predict how it will scale past that - but general experience has shown that SMP  pastC 4 is a losing proposition, hence the Galaxy route which can best be-
 characterized-P as "segmented" SMP.  So what I expect to see is an Asus motherboard that holds 4O or 8 hammer chips and the associated hypertransport glue. Multiple vendors willt useaP that same board and we'll finally witness the commoditization of SMP.  That will driveeO most of the margin out of this business.  What variety there will in the hammer. SMPnI market will most likely not come from custom motherboards by the likes of.	 HP/Compaq B but from different motherboards from the other vendors (FIC, etc.)  F SMP Itanium, on the other hand, is likely to be small volume on custom
 motherboards. O It's going to cost a LOT more than hammer SMP.  We've already seen what happens  whenN a chip gets "marketed" to a tiny market segment at high prices based solely on itseJ superior performance.   (Assuming, a big assumption, that Itanium actually delivers7 better performance in the real world than does Hammer.)m   Regards,   David Mathog mathog@caltech.edu   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 18:21:11 GMTe* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>* Subject: Re: Interesting Alpha advertisingB Message-ID: <r4oo8.112825$2q2.9780409@bin4.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>  : "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message& news:3CA1CAB6.62E5CF76@videotron.ca... > Bill Todd wrote:G > > The blame lies squarely on Curly's stewardship (near three years ofb > > consistent failure by now).t > 2 > He is not the only one. Palmer is also to blame.  I Of course he is, but the context of my response was the allegation better 2 support for Alpha 'a few years back' was required.   ...n  H > *IF* Pfeiffer saw a future in Alpha, he sure wasn't able to execute it  I He wasn't given any time to - less than 8 months after the acquisition, atL frenetic time under the best of circumstances.  But even so he *did* talk itI up and *did* get at least *some* advertising out the door - even for VMS.d   ...g  K > Nobody had any expectations from Curly, He is just a spineless accountant-K > without much vision who was easy to manipulate remotely. (At first Rosen,a then > by folks such as Winkler.)  J But it's still important to place the blame where it belongs, because onlyF then is there any hope that effective corrective action (whether it beI restructuring at the top or abandonment by the customer base) will occur.AJ Hey, informed reaction is the basis of capitalism - perhaps we can get theG obfuscators up before Congress on charges of 'unAmerican activities'...h   - bill   ------------------------------   Date: 27 Mar 2002 18:26:43 GMT- From: djweath@attglobal.net (Dave Weatherall) * Subject: Re: Interesting Alpha advertising5 Message-ID: <DTiotGxQ0bj6-pn2-bdClCfJPFSor@localhost>   D On Wed, 27 Mar 2002 16:07:24 UTC, David Mathog <mathog@caltech.edu>  wrote:  I > a lot more bang for the buck today with PC technology.  Heck, the newerrQ > Athlons are considerably faster than the DS10s I've got (especially in disk IO,aO > where DS10s are woefully underpowered.)  Also, it's often advantageous to puteQ > a lot of memory onto each node, and that's much cheaper on a PC than on a DS10.p  C Hm, wouldn't it be ironic if AMD, with its Alpha-inspired chip i/o  7 (tsunami IIRC), actually succeeded where IA64 failed?  ,   -- m Cheers - Dave.   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 15:31:37 GMTt% From: jlsue <jlsuexxxz@insightbb.com>uA Subject: Re: Longest VMS _cluster_ uptime, was: Re: 1 Year uptimeg8 Message-ID: <ucp3au09n7v2bvujjmm4uhodld2hff9s12@4ax.com>  F Well, this isn't a cluster uptime stat, but I just read of an internal> VAX 3600 running Message Router that has been up for 889 days.  = The only reason for shutting it down is to move it to anotherp	 building.i  1 Not speaking for anyone, certainly not DEC/Compaqi- (get rid of the xxxz in my address to e-mail)n   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 11:14:07 +0000s4 From: John Laird <john@laird-towers.freeserve.co.uk> Subject: Re: Lottery and VMS8 Message-ID: <d3a3auourph7adcuap5860gm8mdrludm62@4ax.com>  K On Tue, 26 Mar 2002 13:25:02 -0500, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>s wrote:   >John Laird wrote:J >> That's not the way our lottery works.  You pick the numbers (any 6 fromJ >> 1-49) and then watch to see if they match the balls that pop out of the >> machine.  >rJ >That is what THEY want you to believe. They just need 49 video sequences.F >Computer picks the combination, and then they assemble the video that> >simulates the right balls popping out of the machine. :-) :-)  J While I appreciate the humour, it is worth pointing out of course that ourH lottery will always pay out the same amount in the end whether there areK winners in each category or not.  The only effect of rigging the draw would1- be to enforce a jackpot payout or a rollover.@  J (The cynic in me does still wonder why we have only had one occasion whereK there was a truly remarkable number of jackpot winners who ended up sharingnJ less than 1% of the pot.  Normally, the number of winners is 0-7 with very occasional low-teens.)     	Johns   ------------------------------    Date: 27 Mar 2002 06:18:09 -0800( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)> Subject: Re: Monster Marvel Performance - headed our way . . .= Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0203270618.3ece494f@posting.google.com>0  t "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote in message news:<nDdo8.184921$1g.15408586@bin3.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>...: > "Rob Young" <young_r@encompasserve.org> wrote in message/ > news:fP8KZAfToQj+@eisner.encompasserve.org...n >  > ...e > ? > > The box will be winning all head to head benchmarks and for 5 > > most RFPs... all bake-offs!  Get used to it . . .o > I > Get used to it indeed:  there aren't going to be any more where it cametK > from, so your next major step up will have to come from elsewhere (likelyl > IBM or, just possibly, AMD). >  > - bill  F alpha will live in itanium ... the alpha engineers will do for itanium what they did for alpha ...t   ------------------------------    Date: 27 Mar 2002 06:42:04 -0800( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)> Subject: Re: Monster Marvel Performance - headed our way . . .= Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0203270642.6fd9c8b6@posting.google.com>   f young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) wrote in message news:<fP8KZAfToQj+@eisner.encompasserve.org>...' > Bout time someone trotted this out...e > H > 	Marvel's performance potential isn't any great secret anymore... not > > 	that it is out on the Web for one and all alike to gaze at: > 7 > www.eecs.umich.edu/vlsi_seminar/f01/slides/bannon.pdfc > - > 	Check out slide 29, slide 30 and slide 31.: > A > 	At average latency of 157 ns and worst case latency of 175 ns,dD > 	for a "13" processor EV7 has better latency than most 4 processorB > 	boxes.  Bandwidth shows up in a frightening way.  Stream scalesB > 	linerally.  That is unheard of!  Check out 32 processor resultsB > 	on slide 31.. 150000 GB/sec.  Compare and contrast Power4 (best > 	out there) at 22000 GB/sec: > < > 	http://www.cs.virginia.edu/stream/standard/Bandwidth.html > ? > 	Again, not to be overlooked... linear scaling in bandwdith, o > 	unprecedented!  And yes.... > O > http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=C2AnvK.GB5%40news.udel.edu&output=gplainh > ( > 		"It's the memory bandwidth, stupid!" > 			-- John D. McCalpin > A > 	Average latency at 250 ns for 64 processors, worst case 391 nsyJ > 	for a single processor, 355 ns for 4 others, etc.  Compare and contrastD > 	to 64 flat SMP boxes (at around 400 ns - best case - worst case - > 	average ---- i.e. SMP!) > I > 	But ah.... some applications are also very latency sensitive... so it n > 	is also a matter of latency!0 > > > 	The box will be winning all head to head benchmarks and for4 > 	most RFPs... all bake-offs!  Get used to it . . . > 	 > 				Rob8  M which makes no sense if all this was up for sale to IBM, Samsung, Apple, etc.nN why nobody would want to buy Alpha VMS Tru64!  Looking at EV7, just think whatO EV8 would have been like!  And where is Cray?  They use alphas, this could haveuO put them back in the drivers seat for high end computing!  Is everyone on drugs- out there or something?a   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 11:42:37 -0500c- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> > Subject: Re: Monster Marvel Performance - headed our way . . ., Message-ID: <3CA1F671.6C71EDFC@videotron.ca>   Bob Ceculski wrote:eH > alpha will live in itanium ... the alpha engineers will do for itanium > what they did for alpha ...r  K A sports car engineer would have a hard time adapting his expertise to helpo build slow freight locomotives.r  N If the architecture is flawed to begin with, all the alpha engineers can do is. to minimise the drawbacks of the architecture.  J The bigger question will be how good an EPIC compiler the Digital compiler people will be able to produce.    ------------------------------    Date: 27 Mar 2002 10:55:45 -0600+ From: kuhrt@encompasserve.org (Marty Kuhrt) = Subject: NetBeans 3.2.1 on VMS (was Excursion (DECterm) API?) 3 Message-ID: <k1jkuQR9pMj0@eisner.encompasserve.org>g  o In article <e050a30a.0203261341.7e77dde6@posting.google.com>, Adrian.Lumsden@sss.co.nz (Adrian Lumsden) writes:uH > What I am trying to do is bend my work environment into something that > I can use :-))   [snip stuff I can't address]  " > Does NetBeans run under VMS btw?   Funny you should ask.  0  > I just got NetBeans 3.2.1 running on a DS10 with VMS V7.3, and@ Java 1.3-12.  I had to make a few changes to the startup command; procedure, runideopenvms.com, since it had hard coded whichu? version of Java it would work with.  You will also need an ODS5fA disk to locate the installation directory, since it demands to be. installed on an ODS5 disk.  ? It's horribly slow at the moment, but I haven't done any tuninge yet.     ------------------------------    Date: 27 Mar 2002 06:17:10 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) ! Subject: RE: News Server Softwaren3 Message-ID: <RcDD$aWflEez@eisner.encompasserve.org>w   In article <BE56C50EA024184DAF48F0B9A47F5CF4016CEC6F@kaoexc01.americas.cpqcorp.net>, "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@Compaq.com> writes:% >>>> Hmmm.  The page Kerry mentioned:n > : > 	http://serverwatch.internet.com/reviews/news-dnews.html > , > listed only non-VMS operating systems: <<< > $ > Ahhhh .. Very good grasshopper :-) > ? > .. Exactly why I posted the pointer to the VMS download page: . > ftp://ftp.netwinsite.com/pub/dnews/vms/alpha  F Hey, I'm a security guy -- I ignore any strings starting with ftp: :-)   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 08:41:51 -0500k- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>e! Subject: Re: News Server Softwaree, Message-ID: <3CA1CC1E.6B81EF91@videotron.ca>   Larry Kilgallen wrote:0 > > ftp://ftp.netwinsite.com/pub/dnews/vms/alpha > H > Hey, I'm a security guy -- I ignore any strings starting with ftp: :-)  K Humour apart, can you explain the above statement ? DO you feel that ftp is.+ "dangerous" from a security point of view ?.   ------------------------------    Date: 27 Mar 2002 23:12:23 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>! Subject: Re: News Server Softwareo- Message-ID: <87zo0urqnc.fsf@prep.synonet.com>r  3 Michael Austin <maustin@firstdbasource.com> writes:y  D > DNEWS uses an "indexed" file container for each NG rather than oneF > file per entry. Which makes it perform to the UNIX levels -- or so I > would surmise.  D You have heard the term 'i-node hack'? Unix systems are also in deep doodoo with news traffic.m   -- c< Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.a@                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------   Date: 27 Mar 2002 16:50:59 GMT1 From: bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)l! Subject: Re: News Server Softwareh, Message-ID: <a7st9j$12ps$1@info.cs.uofs.edu>  - In article <87zo0urqnc.fsf@prep.synonet.com>,-/  Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com> writes: 6 |> Michael Austin <maustin@firstdbasource.com> writes: |> uG |> > DNEWS uses an "indexed" file container for each NG rather than one@I |> > file per entry. Which makes it perform to the UNIX levels -- or so Ie |> > would surmise.s |> pG |> You have heard the term 'i-node hack'? Unix systems are also in deeph |> doodoo with news traffic.  H Never heard of it (so I obviously have never applied it) and I have beenG running news servers on various forms of hardware and Unix for about 20 J years now.  (I can even remember when it was possible to run a news serverK on a MicroVAX running Ultrix with an NFS spool.)  There are a lot of thingspH you can do to enhance performance of a Unix system, especially when you J have a single fixed application and can therefore know what the machine isK doing at any point in time.  News is an I/O (particularly disk) applicationhL and as has been pointed out here the overhead of the VMS filesystem makes it! a poorer performer in that field.   I However!!!  That doesn't mean VMS can't be a good news server.  One could F easily(?) take any of the popular news server packaghes that work withI really large package files rather than individual article files and write H them to bypass the features of the VMS file system they don't need.  NotJ suggesting anyone do this, just pointing out that the things about a file-N system that VMS thought were most important are a drawback for this particular0 application but optimization is always possible.  I The problem with all general purpose computing systems is that most tasksa: aren't general purpose and so there are always trade-offs.   bill   -- PJ Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   e   ------------------------------    Date: 27 Mar 2002 05:46:06 -0800( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)3 Subject: Re: Once a fool, always a fool I guess ...t= Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0203270546.1b0fce5b@posting.google.com>c  Y "Dale King" <dalek@forpresident.com> wrote in message news:<a7rovi$47g$1@lore.csc.com>... 7 > "Bob Ceculski" <bob@instantwhip.com> wrote in messageTL > > > Netfilter is an advanced packet filter.  It lets you filter just about >  anythingrQ > > > IP, and allows you to do neat things like use your machine as a firewall ori >  NAT
 > > > router.a > > >cE > > > If you want to know more, check out http://netfilter.samba.org/  > > >sL > > > It is built into the kernel for speed, not security.  It is an age old >  debate asK > > > to whether this sort of thing should go into the kernel or userspace.e > > >.P > > > I think it's things like this that linux users get for free that stops VMS >  fromuL > > > ever getting a look in.  VMS is very good at what it does: providing a
 >  secure,R > > > reliable platform for enterprise applications.  That is why I don't think weN > > > should dump on other OS's for being insecure, because they are trying to
 >  achieveJ > > > something I don't think VMS ever will: to be on everybody's desktop. > >o4 > > I can already do that with TCPware ... big deal! > 4 > Exactly what of the above can you do with TCPware?  M I can packet filter any IP address or port out there, that is what I mean ...lH I can set set up any incoming or outgoing address restrictions I need toH for anything or any service, I can even filter smtp mail ... it has been0 on vms tcpware for years ... were have you been?   ------------------------------    Date: 27 Mar 2002 05:48:51 -0800( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)3 Subject: Re: Once a fool, always a fool I guess ...i= Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0203270548.5be50b20@posting.google.com>m  Y "Dale King" <dalek@forpresident.com> wrote in message news:<a7ronb$43k$1@lore.csc.com>... 7 > "Bob Ceculski" <bob@instantwhip.com> wrote in message 9 > news:d7791aa1.0203220556.4c464d3a@posting.google.com...eP > > Example:  How long have we waited for a port of SSH?  That has been directlyN > > > requested many I time.  I understand there is a good deal of engineering	 >  efforthH > > > to get this sort of stuff into VMS, and we will just have to wait. > > H > > ssh has been on tcpware now for over a year ... where have you been? > P > bahaha (sorry, couldn't help myself).  Try explaining that to all those peopleQ > who (rightly or wrongly) by a new AlphaServer with TCPIP Services and then looko > for the SSH Server.y > O > (and yes, I know you can go and grab David Jones' SSH Server (for SSH1) as weI > do). > P > Let's face it, TCP/IP is now a fundamental part of computing.  Compaq realisedN > this when they threw a whole heap more engineering/reengineering effort into6 > TCPIP 5.0 (after a quiet period of many, many ECOs). > P > The point I was originally trying to make is that other operating systems giveO > you a lot more functionality (for free) out of the box, so you have to accepttM > you'll need to proactively patch your servers.  Why laugh at them for that?- > P > VMS has traditionally been - by a base license, get nothing, then by some userL > licenses, then maybe some networking, then perhaps Motif, then perhaps a C0 > compiler (don't get me started on that one ;). > N > No, I'm not trying to be cheap, just realistic.  I know you get what you payR > for, so don't hack on the people who pay nothing for an internet capable desktop> > commerce server (but may have to patch it a bit more often).  D a properly configured vms box is "unhackable", and no other os, freeE or otherwise, can offer you that!  how much is security worth to you?    ------------------------------    Date: 27 Mar 2002 08:08:10 -0600- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)x3 Subject: Re: Once a fool, always a fool I guess ... 3 Message-ID: <rjuJwXs6$1NZ@eisner.encompasserve.org>   { In article <3CA1C80A.30608@sun.com>, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <andrew_nospam.remove_this.harrison@sun.com> writes:V >  >  > Bob Koehler wrote: >  >> In article <3CA09E41.5020802@sun.com>, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <andrew_nospam.remove_this.harrison@sun.com> writes: >> a >> nC >>>No unless you think that no CERT advisories = no vunerabilities.h >>>m >> rJ >>    It's time to bury this one. I get a ton of advisories from a varietyI >>    of sources, and most of them post what they find whether the vendoro >>    has responded or not.i >> e  G    So, do you care to address the actuall issues I raised about Solaris     reliability?s   ------------------------------    Date: 27 Mar 2002 07:55:05 -0600- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)G3 Subject: Re: Once a fool, always a fool I guess ...u3 Message-ID: <IZa5h82vUXIZ@eisner.encompasserve.org>   { In article <3CA1C80A.30608@sun.com>, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <andrew_nospam.remove_this.harrison@sun.com> writes:  > A > Security through obscurity which you are apparently arguing forr= > is one thing but this is not what has happened in the past.p  G    Not at all.  I'm saying CERT is not the only source, and we know it.    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 13:24:26 +0000cT From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <andrew_nospam.remove_this.harrison@sun.com>3 Subject: Re: Once a fool, always a fool I guess ...d$ Message-ID: <3CA1C80A.30608@sun.com>   Bob Koehler wrote:   > In article <3CA09E41.5020802@sun.com>, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <andrew_nospam.remove_this.harrison@sun.com> writes:l >  > B >>No unless you think that no CERT advisories = no vunerabilities. >> > I >    It's time to bury this one. I get a ton of advisories from a varietyaH >    of sources, and most of them post what they find whether the vendor >    has responded or not. > G >    Just because CERT publishes vendor responses does not mean we rely,+ >    on the vendor to admit there's a hole.x > H >    Just because CERT didn't publish doesn't mean somebody else didn't. >     H Sorry nice try but no cigar. In a number of cases OpenVMS was vunerable G to IP stack exploits, Compaq had posted response to CERT for both Tru64d7 and OpenVMS, OpenVMS was listed as not being vunerable.z  @ Except that Compaqs own patch reports then listed a patch to fixG the same vunerability. In otherwords the CERT response did not reflect   OpenVMS's actual vunerability.  ? Security through obscurity which you are apparently arguing for ; is one thing but this is not what has happened in the past.u   Regardsm Andrew Harrisono   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 15:03:59 GMTl% From: jlsue <jlsuexxxz@insightbb.com> 3 Subject: Re: Once a fool, always a fool I guess ... 8 Message-ID: <gmn3auogn1f073bmehbg7brmncltcksiup@4ax.com>  E On Tue, 26 Mar 2002 16:57:56 +0000, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy 3 <andrew_nospam.remove_this.harrison@sun.com> wrote:o   >  >k
 >jlsue wrote:  >l >> @G >> What a bunch of crap.  You pay for it with other OSs just as much aswF >> with VMS.  Just because it's a "hidden" cost doesn't mean it doesn'	 >> exist.  >> t >  >o; >Solaris is free on SPARC machines so the IP stack costs 0. : >Do you give commercial licences for OpenVMS away for free >last time I looked you didn't.1  @ Andrew, NOTHING is free.  The cost of SPARC machines - including? software - must be recovered somewhere, somehow.  It may all be7C considered in overhead costs, but no profit-oriented business givesd  anything away for absolute free.   ><7 >Perhaps you could fund the OpenVMS community with this 7 >great offer out of your performance bonus, you must bee4 >earning one for your quality input into this group.  F As if this little missive from you was anything worth the bits it used up.    >o< >Are you being paid on quantity of NFP's (Non Factual Posts): >or is the measure the quality of the expletives you use ?  B Ho-hum.  Here you go again.  Is it even possible for you to hold a3 real discussion?  Do you even have the brain power?   1 Not speaking for anyone, certainly not DEC/Compaqg- (get rid of the xxxz in my address to e-mail)l   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 10:12:09 -05008- From: "Peter Weaver" <peter.weaver@stelco.ca>u3 Subject: Re: Once a fool, always a fool I guess ...y1 Message-ID: <qjlo8.6849$je5.51578@nnrp1.uunet.ca>o  # "Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy"e= <andrew_nospam.remove_this.harrison@sun.com> wrote in messagee news:3CA1C80A.30608@sun.com... > ...nI > Sorry nice try but no cigar. In a number of cases OpenVMS was vunerableaI > to IP stack exploits, Compaq had posted response to CERT for both Tru64e9 > and OpenVMS, OpenVMS was listed as not being vunerable.d >bB > Except that Compaqs own patch reports then listed a patch to fixH > the same vunerability. In otherwords the CERT response did not reflect >...  ( Can you post URL's to backup this claim?  L It seems to me the last time you posted this claim I asked the same questionL and you never responded. But then again, IIRC, it was a few weeks later that I added you to my kill file.  F If you can not post the URL's to support this FUD then please SHUT UP!   -- Peter WeaverL Opinions are my own, and do not reflect the opinions of my employer, nor theK company that it sub-contracts to, nor the company that it sub-contracts to..   ------------------------------    Date: 27 Mar 2002 22:16:25 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>3 Subject: Re: Once a fool, always a fool I guess ...s- Message-ID: <874rj2t7t2.fsf@prep.synonet.com>a  ? Doc.Cypher <Use-Author-Supplied-Address-Header@[127.1]> writes:   F > C'mon Andrew, how many CERT advisories has Solaris had over the last > ten years?  S? > Last count I heard was over 400, and you can manage to cite 3e- > problems with VMS. Where's the competition?n  @ HPUS is running several 'Security Notice's a week. Won't that be
 wonderfull...F  2 BTW Andrew, do you have a working e-mail address??   --  < Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.T@                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 17:47:01 GMT-% From: jlsue <jlsuexxxz@insightbb.com>03 Subject: Re: Once a fool, always a fool I guess ... 8 Message-ID: <6a14au0gm50u6c6shdhic690ndlqtru7pd@4ax.com>  E On Wed, 27 Mar 2002 13:24:26 +0000, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancye3 <andrew_nospam.remove_this.harrison@sun.com> wrote:s >>  I >>    Just because CERT didn't publish doesn't mean somebody else didn't.l >> e >h > I >Sorry nice try but no cigar. In a number of cases OpenVMS was vunerable fH >to IP stack exploits, Compaq had posted response to CERT for both Tru648 >and OpenVMS, OpenVMS was listed as not being vunerable. >gA >Except that Compaqs own patch reports then listed a patch to fix H >the same vunerability. In otherwords the CERT response did not reflect  >OpenVMS's actual vunerability.m    @ Can you name these vulnerabilities?  I'm genuinely interested inD hearing about them.  But I do require proof of some sort - something" which your responses usually lack.  1 Not speaking for anyone, certainly not DEC/Compaqn- (get rid of the xxxz in my address to e-mail)    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 15:43:51 +0100 ( From: Paul Sture <paul.sture@bluewin.ch> Subject: Re: OpenSSH Cliente) Message-ID: <3CA1DAA7.6090809@bluewin.ch>    Colin Blake wrote:   > labadie wrote: >  > & >> ttssh, as said Rob Young, and puttyE >>(http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~sgtatham/putty/) are both good.c >> > @ > PuTTY appears to be for Win32 only, from reading the web page. >  >    And so does ttssho   __
 Paul Sture Switzerland,   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 11:14:16 GMTw From: system@SendSpamHere.ORGo6 Subject: Re: OpenVMS port to Intel - video now on line0 Message-ID: <00A0B8DF.14BD6BF8@SendSpamHere.ORG>   In article <rdeininger-2603022044580001@1cust49.tnt4.nashua.nh.da.uu.net>, rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger) writes:aP >In article <00A0B780.889EC753@SendSpamHere.ORG>, system@SendSpamHere.ORG wrote: >nE >>In article <JFFn8.1446$fL6.28448@news.cpqcorp.net>, "Sue Skonetski"n% ><susan.skonetski@compaq.com> writes:e, >>> This is a good video and worth your time, >>>http://www.compaq.com/hps/ipf-enterprise/ >>>. >>>warm regards, >>>: >>>sue >>>E >>>y >>>I >>L >>Can you get it converted to an MPEG so that we non-weendoze types -- like : >>those of use that actually still use VMS -- can view it? > Q >The CD version has a Macintosh partition that contains the video in MPEG format.0  
 CD version???r   --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COMg            1J   "And of course, I'm a genius, so people are naturally drawn to my fiery I   intellect.  Their admiration overwhelms their envy!" -- Calvin & Hobbesi   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 08:30:42 -0500m2 From: "Sue Skonetski" <susan.skonetski@compaq.com>6 Subject: Re: OpenVMS port to Intel - video now on line3 Message-ID: <5Ojo8.1555$fL6.30980@news.cpqcorp.net>p  I I have seen the requests to make the CD orderable by customers or have itDK shipped.  I will send a request to marketing and see if it is possible.  IfeI I do am I going to get messages that say "you are preaching to the choir"e+ ;') not that it would stop me, just asking.p   Suet  = "Sue Skonetski" <susan.skonetski@compaq.com> wrote in messaget- news:JFFn8.1446$fL6.28448@news.cpqcorp.net... * > This is a good video and worth your time+ > http://www.compaq.com/hps/ipf-enterprise/C >c > warm regards,) >5 > sue  >  >  >    ------------------------------    Date: 27 Mar 2002 08:11:58 -0600- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) 6 Subject: Re: OpenVMS port to Intel - video now on line3 Message-ID: <PAQynCTf+UIg@eisner.encompasserve.org>-  h In article <5Ojo8.1555$fL6.30980@news.cpqcorp.net>, "Sue Skonetski" <susan.skonetski@compaq.com> writes:K > I have seen the requests to make the CD orderable by customers or have it M > shipped.  I will send a request to marketing and see if it is possible.  IfnK > I do am I going to get messages that say "you are preaching to the choir">- > ;') not that it would stop me, just asking.  >   D    Please DO continue preaching to the choir, we need to know what'sA    going on.  What we're asking is that someone start telling thev(    same things to the rest of the world.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 11:13:35 -0500 - From: "Peter Weaver" <peter.weaver@stelco.ca>e6 Subject: Re: OpenVMS port to Intel - video now on line1 Message-ID: <0dmo8.6975$je5.51894@nnrp1.uunet.ca>b  2 "Alan Greig" <a.greig@virgin.net> wrote in message2 news:4bo3aucgk3erho3tmpbgeh3f9isargn66j@4ax.com... >...G > How about adding Bill Gates and Dave Cutler to the VMS marketing listy@ > anyway. Make sure they get a  copy of  the CD as well.  Slip aD > (apparently serious) note in Cutler's copy that VMS engineering isE > hiring  for porting work and Compaq HR has heard he might have somehD > experience in porting  a VMS-lite like kernel from  Alpha to IA64. >...  ! The Flying Boy video on this site J http://www.novellbrainshare.com/portal/content/home_video.jsp is the videoH VMS Marketing should have done. Just replace the Novell title at the end& with VMS and it would have been great.   -- Peter WeaverL Opinions are my own, and do not reflect the opinions of my employer, nor theK company that it sub-contracts to, nor the company that it sub-contracts to.s   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 15:21:50 +0000n% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>h6 Subject: Re: OpenVMS port to Intel - video now on line8 Message-ID: <4bo3aucgk3erho3tmpbgeh3f9isargn66j@4ax.com>  F On 27 Mar 2002 08:11:58 -0600, koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) wrote:  i >In article <5Ojo8.1555$fL6.30980@news.cpqcorp.net>, "Sue Skonetski" <susan.skonetski@compaq.com> writes: L >> I have seen the requests to make the CD orderable by customers or have itN >> shipped.  I will send a request to marketing and see if it is possible.  IfL >> I do am I going to get messages that say "you are preaching to the choir". >> ;') not that it would stop me, just asking. >> o >eE >   Please DO continue preaching to the choir, we need to know what's7B >   going on.  What we're asking is that someone start telling the) >   same things to the rest of the world.d  E How about adding Bill Gates and Dave Cutler to the VMS marketing list > anyway. Make sure they get a  copy of  the CD as well.  Slip aB (apparently serious) note in Cutler's copy that VMS engineering isC hiring  for porting work and Compaq HR has heard he might have some C experience in porting  a VMS-lite like kernel from  Alpha to IA64. d  F Leak the story and even the PC press might run it for amusement value.: A few million free column inches for the VMS Itanium port. -- Alan   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 15:57:27 +0000V( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1>6 Subject: Re: OpenVMS port to Intel - video now on line) Message-ID: <3CA1EBE7.E97C3801@127.0.0.1>   C David Atherton's Northern English accent in among all the others isy quite amusing to me!) You need more Europeans in your videos...t  E Good old dabs.. just down the road from where I live. (where down ===e west)g  F http://www.bolton.org.uk/wingates.html (look for the industrial estate! entrance pic about half way down)t  F (yes I know there's a typo on the page, I'll fix it one of these days) --  ( Regards, Nic Clews CSC Computer Sciences nclews at csc dot comn   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 11:38:52 -0500a- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> 6 Subject: Re: OpenVMS port to Intel - video now on line+ Message-ID: <3CA1F590.AA1A155@videotron.ca>l   Bob Koehler wrote:F >    Please DO continue preaching to the choir, we need to know what'sC >    going on.  What we're asking is that someone start telling the4* >    same things to the rest of the world.    G What the choir would need is a video of Carly Fiorina announcing the HPtJ commitment to not only maintain VMS but develop and expand its market. NowL that would be a CD worth sending out to the choir so that the choir can showD the CD/video to those who need to be convinced of the future of VMS.  M No offense Sue, but Capellas and Compaq have been made irrelevant. HP is what M counts now. I think you would be wasting money cutting and shipping a CD of as speech by Capellas.   K Now, when Carly does unveil her product roadmap, many of us not worthy of aTN visit by Compaq/HP reps would greatly appreciate getting the "book" that CarlyL has supposedly prepared to outline the product roadmap, no matter what Carly( has decided with regards to VMS' future.  M If VMS is not worthy of a future, perhaps you could spend your last marketingeE dollars on cutting a "History of Digital" CD, with pictures, tidbits,nL interviews with Ken O. , pictures of various equipment DEC produced etc etc.N That would be a really great memento to have pleasant memories of what used toO be DEC. (don't bother with the nighmare that were the palmer and compaq years).a   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 17:23:42 GMTn4 From: Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@blueyonder.co.uk>6 Subject: Re: OpenVMS port to Intel - video now on line0 Message-ID: <3CA1FEC8.53A48EEE@blueyonder.co.uk>   GreyCloud wrote: >  > Tim Llewellyn wrote: >  > >  > >o" > > system@SendSpamHere.ORG wrote: > >>H > >> In article <JFFn8.1446$fL6.28448@news.cpqcorp.net>, "Sue Skonetski") > >> <susan.skonetski@compaq.com> writes:o/ > >> > This is a good video and worth your timen/ > >> >http://www.compaq.com/hps/ipf-enterprise/a > >> > > >> >warm regards,s > >> >	 > >> >suey > >> > > >> > > >> > > >>N > >> Can you get it converted to an MPEG so that we non-weendoze types -- like= > >> those of use that actually still use VMS -- can view it?. > >eH > > A higher quality streaming version for those of us with DSL wouldn'tF > > go amiss, either. The text is quite difficult to read on the modem > > quality version. > >t > I > I'm on cable and it still was a poorly done presentation.  Their server>H > only pumped out at 45kb/sec.  Other presentations I've seen from otherK > companies came down at around 880Kb/sec and were a lot better and clearern
 > as well. >   H I'm on DSL but only got the 6Kb/sec (ie modem) version, that was what I 4 was complaining about. My DSL maxes out at 65Kb/sec.   -- t tim.llewellyn@blueyonder.co.uk    F * tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.uk address will cease to work June 2002 *   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 12:30:49 -0500-2 From: "Sue Skonetski" <susan.skonetski@compaq.com>6 Subject: Re: OpenVMS port to Intel - video now on line3 Message-ID: <djno8.1572$fL6.31085@news.cpqcorp.net>I   Dear Newsgroup,e  9 I have received a response about making the cd orderable.d  I "To get copies of the video on cd you need to ask your local Compaq salesr rep."   L Since that answer does not always work for me and as long as it does not getK out of hand, just send me your hardcopy mailing address and I will send out  what I have.  
 Warm Regards,r  
 Sue Skonetskit  = "Sue Skonetski" <susan.skonetski@compaq.com> wrote in message:- news:5Ojo8.1555$fL6.30980@news.cpqcorp.net...lK > I have seen the requests to make the CD orderable by customers or have it I > shipped.  I will send a request to marketing and see if it is possible.h IfK > I do am I going to get messages that say "you are preaching to the choir"u- > ;') not that it would stop me, just asking.c >  > Suel > ? > "Sue Skonetski" <susan.skonetski@compaq.com> wrote in messagel/ > news:JFFn8.1446$fL6.28448@news.cpqcorp.net...I, > > This is a good video and worth your time- > > http://www.compaq.com/hps/ipf-enterprise/n > >t > > warm regards,  > >r > > sueo > >. > >  > >J >  >a   ------------------------------    Date: 27 Mar 2002 06:49:04 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)sG Subject: Re: OpenVMS port to Intel - video now on line (actually CDROM) 3 Message-ID: <vswVo+wivCTF@eisner.encompasserve.org>n   In article <rdeininger-2603022044580001@1cust49.tnt4.nashua.nh.da.uu.net>, rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger) writes:tQ > In article <00A0B780.889EC753@SendSpamHere.ORG>, system@SendSpamHere.ORG wrote:f > E >>In article <JFFn8.1446$fL6.28448@news.cpqcorp.net>, "Sue Skonetski" & > <susan.skonetski@compaq.com> writes:, >>> This is a good video and worth your time, >>>http://www.compaq.com/hps/ipf-enterprise/ >>>a >>>warm regards, >>>u >>>sue >>>  >>>w >>>i >>L >>Can you get it converted to an MPEG so that we non-weendoze types -- like : >>those of use that actually still use VMS -- can view it? > R > The CD version has a Macintosh partition that contains the video in MPEG format. > H > I don't know how the quality compares to the online one, since I'm notH > going to download a nasty realplayer program and let it fiddle with my	 > system.@ > L > But the MPEG version on CD is kind of huge -- 57 MB.  I don't know if that  > would be wecome on a web page.  G I would suggest a web page allowing one to order a free copy of the CD.oC Or how about mailing that CD to those who otherwise get T-shirts ori
 umbrellas.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 08:59:42 -0500s- From: "Todd Nelson" <toddnelson_@hotmail.com> B Subject: OpenVMS with Apache, OSU, and WASD, The Nonstop Webserver' Message-ID: <3ca1d035_2@news7.fast.net>-  9 OpenVMS with Apache, OSU, and WASD, The Nonstop Webserver   ) New Publication to be available in June !n    L http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1555582648/qid%3D1017069087/104-61488
 70-9011156   todd.    ------------------------------    Date: 27 Mar 2002 06:31:14 -0800* From: ken.randell@fortel.com (Ken Randell)3 Subject: Re: Oracle media - v 7.1.x for OpenVMS VAXt< Message-ID: <8debc3ff.0203270631.1325769@posting.google.com>  C Please contact me at the e-mail address posted if you have not been ( already able to get this issue resolved.   Ken Randello   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 12:55:19 GMT ' From: "Hans Vlems" <hvlems@zfree.co.nz>-= Subject: Re[2]: Re[2]: SW Command Console for Raid array 3000 $ Message-ID: <3ca1c12f$1@zfree.co.nz>  	 Valentin,R  E SWCC proved too complicated (it still cannot establish a connection).1E But your method worked flawlessly. The password was still the defaulto value.   Hans  5 Valentin Likoum <valentin.likoum@ncc.volga.ru> wrote:@0 >On 26.03.2002 Hans Vlems <hvlems@iae.nl> wrote: > F >> Ah, that is good news. I tried hyperterm and the only respons I got >> was the string: >  >> ?01 >tO >> The question mark is probably an escape character. I'll try your suggestion,tG >> but if you can be just a little more precise that would be welcome !n >[snip]. > G >  Hans, you need to set communication to 9600,8,n,1,XON/XOFF and entertB >Escape/& (escape key, shift+7 keys) and you should see banner andC >password prompt. Default password is DECRAID. Though IIRC it's notg >cli-based but menu-based. >a >--  >  Valentin Likoum >  valentin.likoum@ncc.volga.rus >h       http://www.zfree.co.nz   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 11:30:51 GMTe' From: "Hans Vlems" <hvlems@zfree.co.nz>e: Subject: Re: Re[2]: SW Command Console for Raid array 3000" Message-ID: <3ca1ad5b@zfree.co.nz>   Thanks Valentin,  6 that could be very useful. I got a pointer to SWCC 2.1C and wll try that first. In case SWCC fails (old firmware, whatever) ! then it is nice to have a plan B.r   Hans  5 Valentin Likoum <valentin.likoum@ncc.volga.ru> wrote:r0 >On 26.03.2002 Hans Vlems <hvlems@iae.nl> wrote: >dF >> Ah, that is good news. I tried hyperterm and the only respons I got >> was the string: >d >> ?01 >nO >> The question mark is probably an escape character. I'll try your suggestion, G >> but if you can be just a little more precise that would be welcome !n >[snip]y >hG >  Hans, you need to set communication to 9600,8,n,1,XON/XOFF and enter B >Escape/& (escape key, shift+7 keys) and you should see banner andC >password prompt. Default password is DECRAID. Though IIRC it's notu >cli-based but menu-based. >l >--  >  Valentin Likoum >  valentin.likoum@ncc.volga.ru  >u       http://www.zfree.co.nz   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 18:10:28 +0400 4 From: Valentin Likoum <valentin.likoum@ncc.volga.ru>6 Subject: Re[5]: SW Command Console for Raid array 30005 Message-ID: <16836848988.20020327181028@ncc.volga.ru>d  4 On 27.03.2002 Hans Vlems <hvlems@zfree.co.nz> wrote:     > Valentin,_  G > SWCC proved too complicated (it still cannot establish a connection). G > But your method worked flawlessly. The password was still the defaultn > value. [snip]  E   There are two types of graphical consoles: SWCC which works throughCB network with SWCC agent installed on the host and something called< "HZ22 Command console" which works through the same RS232 asD Hyperterm. So if you have difficulty with SWCC you could use HZ22... though it's very slow. T   -- s   Valentin Likoum    valentin.likoum@ncc.volga.ru   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 10:18:04 -0800r# From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com>o Subject: SCRNOTCURAV in dbgh9 Message-ID: <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIAEBEEHAA.tom@kednos.com>,  > Trying to debug a mixed language program PL/I and C and DBG is1 complaing about the source listing for a C module    I tried   4 DBG> SET SOURCE <file-spec for sources> doesn't help  ( This is on AXP 7.3 using OpenVMS Debug64  0 Also tried pull down menu from browsw sources.     What is the trick?   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 15:39:07 +0100g( From: Paul Sture <paul.sture@bluewin.ch>3 Subject: Re: SW Command Console for Raid array 3000 ) Message-ID: <3CA1D98B.1080108@bluewin.ch>o   Hans Vlems wrote:a  E > Ah, that is good news. I tried hyperterm and the only respons I got  > was the string:M >  > ?01y > N > The question mark is probably an escape character. I'll try your suggestion,F > but if you can be just a little more precise that would be welcome ! >0  H The version of hyperterm which comes with Windows is somewhat deficient.  I If you haven't done so already, you can download a free Personal Edition y from  ( http://www.hilgraeve.com/htpe/index.html    4 > Hans > 4 > David Wicker <dwicker1@yahoo.com> wrote in message9 > news:bf12aa59.0203260657.3d7da9be@posting.google.com...y > D >>Since the last RA3000 swcc client was released in early 1999 it isG >>highly unlikely youre going to find it. If you have a compaq presalesn= >>or service rep it can maybe be obtained internally from theaH >>ESAD(enterprise storage array division) group. Some have access to the >>internal store for that.D >>Or you can just use the CLI to configure it with hyperteminal. YouF >>just have to know the initial key stroke to change its communicationE >>mode from SWCC to direct other wise it will not respond on a serialmG >>connection. I used to know it but i forgot it was like ctrl-esc-q  orn >>something like that. >> >> >>1 >>"labadie" <labadie_g@decus.fr> wrote in message  >>1 > news:<dEXn8.1491$fL6.29416@news.cpqcorp.net>...j > 5 >>>"Hans Vlems" <hvlems@zfree.co.nz> wrote in message-! >>>news:3ca04324$1@zfree.co.nz...o >>>t< >>>>We are trying to connect a Raid Array 3000 controller toH >>>>an Alpha VMS system (VMS 7.3). The RA3000 must be configured  with a1 >>>>separate tool: software command console V2.x.aD >>>>We currently have V1.1 only and that doesn't work (no connectionA >>>>established, across a serial connection from a W95 platform).c@ >>>>We're looking for a URL to download SWCC V2.x, any pointers? >>>> >>>Hello >>>  >>>try >>>a >>>rN > http://www5.compaq.com/products/storageworks/storage-management-software/swc >  >>>cdownload.html  >>>-
 >>>Regards >>>-	 >>>Grard  >>>e >  >        -- : __
 Paul Sture Switzerlandp   ------------------------------    Date: 27 Mar 2002 07:52:37 -0800' From: dwicker1@yahoo.com (David Wicker)i3 Subject: Re: SW Command Console for Raid array 30006= Message-ID: <bf12aa59.0203270752.2a8c79ba@posting.google.com>a  ! The ?01 means youre in SWCC mode.u  B This is from the manual it should have every thing you need to getA started if you want i can send you the complete manual set in pdf  format  A If you are upgrading from a single controller storage system, the  installed controllerA will be in the active/passive mode of operation. To configure thee storage system us-ing B a single serial connection, the dual controllers must be placed in
 active/active > mode. Perform the procedure to change your storage system from "active/passive" toa" "active/active" mode of operation.  E 1. Shutdown the RA3000 storage system, install the second controller,v and restarti the system.DC 2. Connect the host serial port to the serial port connector on theg top controller ofs the RA3000.o? 3. Open an HSZ22 monitor utility terminal session. The terminali settings should be:eE 9600 BAUD, 8 bits, no parity, 1 stop bit, XON/XOFF. If prompted for ay
 pass-word,
 enter "RAID".a@ 4. When the terminal session is displayed, press "ESCAPE/&" (key sequence: Esc,B Shift, 7). The controller should respond with banner listing HSZ22 Monitor Util-ity) followed by the Firmware revision number... 5. Select Setup Parameters from the main menu.@ 6. Select Rdnt Ctrlr Parameters and change the value of Host I/O Channel 1 to Passive. Press Ctrl-Z to exit.= 7. Transfer the serial cable to the serial port on the bottomb controller and pressF "Ctrl -Z". When the Monitor Utility screen is displayed, press any key
 to con-tinue. E 8. Select Setup Parameters and then select Rdnt Ctrlr Parameters from  the main menu.-F 9. Both channels should be displayed as "Passive". Select the host I/O channel that; was not reconfigured in step 5 and change its value Active.n Press CTRL-Z to exit. ? 10. Restart the controllers by power cycling the RA3000 storage: system.0C 11. Recheck the Rdnt Ctrlr Parameters. The controller Values shouldj display Ac-tive/ Passive.F 12. Transfer the serial cable to the serial port on the top controller
 on the RA3000e and press Ctrl-Z.oA 13. Check the Rdnt Ctrlr Parameters. The controller Values shouldt display Pas-sive/e Active.sB Your storage system is now properly configured for dual controller operation from aE single serial host port. Proceed to the next section to configure thel controllers.      Z "Hans Vlems" <hvlems@iae.nl> wrote in message news:<754o8.376$6w3.7723@typhoon.bart.nl>...E > Ah, that is good news. I tried hyperterm and the only respons I got  > was the string:a >  > ?01e > N > The question mark is probably an escape character. I'll try your suggestion,F > but if you can be just a little more precise that would be welcome ! >  > Hans > 4 > David Wicker <dwicker1@yahoo.com> wrote in message9 > news:bf12aa59.0203260657.3d7da9be@posting.google.com...rF > > Since the last RA3000 swcc client was released in early 1999 it isI > > highly unlikely youre going to find it. If you have a compaq presalesm? > > or service rep it can maybe be obtained internally from the2J > > ESAD(enterprise storage array division) group. Some have access to the > > internal store for that.F > > Or you can just use the CLI to configure it with hyperteminal. YouH > > just have to know the initial key stroke to change its communicationG > > mode from SWCC to direct other wise it will not respond on a serial I > > connection. I used to know it but i forgot it was like ctrl-esc-q  orw > > something like that. > >o > >r > >i3 > > "labadie" <labadie_g@decus.fr> wrote in message 2 >  news:<dEXn8.1491$fL6.29416@news.cpqcorp.net>...8 > > > "Hans Vlems" <hvlems@zfree.co.nz> wrote in message$ > > > news:3ca04324$1@zfree.co.nz... > > > >-@ > > > > We are trying to connect a Raid Array 3000 controller toL > > > > an Alpha VMS system (VMS 7.3). The RA3000 must be configured  with a5 > > > > separate tool: software command console V2.x.iH > > > > We currently have V1.1 only and that doesn't work (no connectionE > > > > established, across a serial connection from a W95 platform).tD > > > > We're looking for a URL to download SWCC V2.x, any pointers? > > >  > > > Helloo > > >d	 > > > tryv > > > O >  http://www5.compaq.com/products/storageworks/storage-management-software/swc  > > > cdownload.html > > >h
 > > > RegardsD > > >s > > > Grard   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 17:32:19 GMTe4 From: Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@blueyonder.co.uk>+ Subject: Re: System software status utilityn0 Message-ID: <3CA200CE.2EB24D9A@blueyonder.co.uk>   Carl Perkins wrote:d > f > In article <3ca0f86b$1@news.si.com>, "Brian Tillman" <tillman_brian@notnoone.notnohow.com> writes...= > }>Way too vague a problem, with way too many choices.  EacheD > }>application probably has it's own requirements for what is meantA > }>by "up" - connect to an IP port, connect to a decnet port, is A > }>there a process called "ABC" running, is there a queue called  > }>"XYZ" running, etc etc etc.r > }cO > }Yeah, and how do you tell if the C compiler is "up"?  That doesn't even make.	 > }sense.  > }--oD > }Brian Tillman                   Internet: tillman_brian at si.com > C > DEC C has a DECC$STARTUP.COM file. It installs the compiler imagetA > and massage file. (Although it will work without running this --: > it is the "DEC C optional startup procedure" after all.)  C That doesn't help if the DECC$STARTUP.COM is executed in batch withVC no synchronization with systartup, then the user logs in just afterbD boot and finds no C compiler because the compiler startup job hasn't@ run yet, which is my best interpretation of the kind of problems( the original poster was trying to solve.  K Moral, use synchronization (SYNCHRONIZE in DCL or SYSMAN startup database).a   regards  > 
 > --- Carl   --   tim.llewellyn@blueyonder.co.uk -  F * tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.uk address will cease to work June 2002 *   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 05:59:49 -0800-# From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> $ Subject: RE: tcpip5.1  smtp question9 Message-ID: <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIIEAEEHAA.tom@kednos.com>r  D Thanks.  Is there any advantage to your ISP _not_ registering the IP$ of their mail server?  Just curious.   > -----Original Message-----; > From: Martin Vorlaender [mailto:martin@radiogaga.harz.de]s' > Sent: Tuesday, March 26, 2002 6:33 PMt > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comr% > Subject: Re: tcpip5.1 smtp questionn >  > $ > Tom Linden (tom@kednos.com) wrote:, > > on AXP 7.3 I have in my SMTP.CONFIG file( > > Reject-Unbacktranslatable-IP:   TRUE > > E > > Now what seems to happen is that if someone has an MX record onlylD > > the message is rejected. Thus NSLOOKUP fails but NSLOOKUP -q=MX 
 > > does not.J > I > We seem to have been on the wrong track here. My mail-only domain isn't H > what upsets your mail server. It seems that my ISP sends the mail fromF > a system with a non-registered IP. That's perfectly legal practice -1 > it's just that it's used by so many spammers...e > @ > > How does SMTP actually function when this field is set TRUE? >  > Quoting the docs:e > I >   You can configure SMTP to translate the client's IP address to a host < >   name, and to disconnect the link if no host name exists. > J > "client" here refers to the system that connects to your SMTP to deliver > mail.r > B > > Any thoughts on how to fix the problem is greatly appreciated. > H > As long as there are ISPs that don't register their mail systems, thatF > feature will produce false positives. Switch it off or live with the7 > fact that some people will have their emails bounced.s >  > cu, 
 >   Martin > -- oH >   OpenVMS:                | Martin Vorlaender  |  VMS & WNT programmer5 >    The operating system   | work: mv@pdv-systeme.deSH >    God runs the           |   http://www.pdv-systeme.de/users/martinv/< >    earth simulation on.   | home: martin@radiogaga.harz.de >    ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 15:38:22 GMTa" From: kkal@javakk.com (Ken Kalish)$ Subject: Re: tcpip5.1  smtp question+ Message-ID: <3ca4e69a.4119187@news.ptd.net>-  H On Wed, 27 Mar 2002 05:59:49 -0800, "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> wrote:  E >Thanks.  Is there any advantage to your ISP _not_ registering the IPv% >of their mail server?  Just curious.t  J Tom, the approach of rejecting mail from an IP which does not have rDNS isN aimed at spammers who operate from a dialup account - so-called 'direct-to-MX'M spammers. (Though spammers who control the nameserver records have been knownfN to use false machine names in an effort to mislead spam recipients who want to complain about the spam.)d  J I couldn't imagine an ISP which doesn't have rDNS on its MX(s), except for those in Asia.   >  >> -----Original Message----->< >> From: Martin Vorlaender [mailto:martin@radiogaga.harz.de]( >> Sent: Tuesday, March 26, 2002 6:33 PM >> To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com& >> Subject: Re: tcpip5.1 smtp question >> i >> a% >> Tom Linden (tom@kednos.com) wrote: - >> > on AXP 7.3 I have in my SMTP.CONFIG filee) >> > Reject-Unbacktranslatable-IP:   TRUEl >> >F >> > Now what seems to happen is that if someone has an MX record onlyE >> > the message is rejected. Thus NSLOOKUP fails but NSLOOKUP -q=MX t >> > does not. >> nJ >> We seem to have been on the wrong track here. My mail-only domain isn'tI >> what upsets your mail server. It seems that my ISP sends the mail fromrG >> a system with a non-registered IP. That's perfectly legal practice - 2 >> it's just that it's used by so many spammers... >> tA >> > How does SMTP actually function when this field is set TRUE?p >> e >> Quoting the docs: >> _J >>   You can configure SMTP to translate the client's IP address to a host= >>   name, and to disconnect the link if no host name exists.w >> aK >> "client" here refers to the system that connects to your SMTP to deliver  >> mail. >> -C >> > Any thoughts on how to fix the problem is greatly appreciated.e >> dI >> As long as there are ISPs that don't register their mail systems, thatMG >> feature will produce false positives. Switch it off or live with thel8 >> fact that some people will have their emails bounced. >> e >> cu, >>   Martine >> -- I >>   OpenVMS:                | Martin Vorlaender  |  VMS & WNT programmere6 >>    The operating system   | work: mv@pdv-systeme.deI >>    God runs the           |   http://www.pdv-systeme.de/users/martinv/0= >>    earth simulation on.   | home: martin@radiogaga.harz.dep >>     -- p   Regards,  
 Ken Kalish   there is no Java cartelu   ------------------------------   Date: 27 Mar 2002 13:35:42 GMT1 From: bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)m= Subject: Re: Today's odd Compaq Working Group Survey Questionl+ Message-ID: <a7shre$tbu$1@info.cs.uofs.edu>e  , In article <a7qtsd01q93@enews1.newsguy.com>,5  "Zane H. Healy" <healyzh@shell1.aracnet.com> writes:b |>, |> What, you're not using PDP's still? :^)    8 Some of us are.  My current personal stable consists of:	 One Alpham Six VAXn Twelve PDP's   :-)u   bill   -- mJ Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------    Date: 27 Mar 2002 07:56:35 -0600- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) = Subject: Re: Today's odd Compaq Working Group Survey Questione3 Message-ID: <7J0vVxxVN$k0@eisner.encompasserve.org>a  a In article <a7qtsd01q93@enews1.newsguy.com>, "Zane H. Healy" <healyzh@shell1.aracnet.com> writes:p  J > What, you're not using PDP's still? :^)  A lot of companies still do, ofM > course one would think they'd be talking to Mentec rather than Compaq aboutn > the PDP-11's.l  H    Does Mentec do Pro 350 or just "real" PDP-11?  What about those Micro    PDP-8 I used to use?e   ------------------------------    Date: 27 Mar 2002 07:59:17 -0600- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)e= Subject: Re: Today's odd Compaq Working Group Survey Questions3 Message-ID: <piwWpABSReQ0@eisner.encompasserve.org>n  \ In article <3CA103C9.C8DD388D@videotron.ca>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> writes: > "Zane H. Healy" wrote:H >> What, you're not using PDP's still? :^)  A lot of companies still do, > M > You know, what we should all do is to write scripts that fill the form with F > lost of different information, but with one common field: PDP11 use. > I > Can you imagine Comapq's reaction when it finds that it still has abouta > 100,000 PDP11 users ?????m  D    Maybe they do.  I once saw a contract that was first bid with PDPF    11/70.  Then DEC announced the VAX 11/780 and both the customer andC    the contractor wanted to try that, so they updated the contract.oD    Everything DEC makes is a PDP, right?  So they changed it to readB    PDP VAX 11/780.  Since they shipped with the compatability mode+    instruction set they almost were PDP-11.g   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 14:30:06 GMTt! From: Andy <acs@fcgnet.works.net>l= Subject: Re: Today's odd Compaq Working Group Survey Questions> Message-ID: <Xns91DE606D98B7Aacsfcgnetworksnet@216.166.71.232>  @ "Zane H. Healy" <healyzh@shell1.aracnet.com> enlightened us with% news:a7qtsd01q93@enews1.newsguy.com: -  , > What, you're not using PDP's still? :^)     9 I've got a Pro 380 (aka VAX Console) sitting in a corner.S Does that count ?   8 The last PDP-11 I saw at a customer site (when replacing8 a VAX with an Alpha) hadn't been used in years (but was 9 claimed to be "ready to go" with the RSTS version of our  9 software (long obsolete) if it ever became necessary) and'8 was just there to "reserve" the space for future use so 5 some greedy administrator wouldn't "repurpose" it for 8 some non-computer activity. :-). Not sure if it is still! there..... that was back in 2000.    -Andy-   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 10:26:29 -05000- From: "Peter Weaver" <peter.weaver@stelco.ca> = Subject: Re: Today's odd Compaq Working Group Survey Questione1 Message-ID: <Swlo8.6901$je5.51473@nnrp1.uunet.ca>   . "Andy" <acs@fcgnet.works.net> wrote in message8 news:Xns91DE606D98B7Aacsfcgnetworksnet@216.166.71.232... >...: > The last PDP-11 I saw at a customer site (when replacing9 > a VAX with an Alpha) hadn't been used in years (but wasa: > claimed to be "ready to go" with the RSTS version of our; > software (long obsolete) if it ever became necessary) andc9 > was just there to "reserve" the space for future use soe7 > some greedy administrator wouldn't "repurpose" it for7: > some non-computer activity. :-). Not sure if it is still# > there..... that was back in 2000.9 >...  J I saw two working PDP-11 machines last fall. Actually one was working, oneF was a hot standby, a bunch more were in boxes around the room as spareG parts. I have also seen real working application running on an emulatedn6 PDP-11. When an application works well, it just works!     -- Peter WeaverL Opinions are my own, and do not reflect the opinions of my employer, nor theK company that it sub-contracts to, nor the company that it sub-contracts to.    ------------------------------   Date: 27 Mar 2002 18:26:41 GMT- From: djweath@attglobal.net (Dave Weatherall)b= Subject: Re: Today's odd Compaq Working Group Survey Question.5 Message-ID: <DTiotGxQ0bj6-pn2-fXGZsQpmMZdz@localhost>s  1 On Wed, 27 Mar 2002 15:26:29 UTC, "Peter Weaver" 0 <peter.weaver@stelco.ca> wrote:>  0 > "Andy" <acs@fcgnet.works.net> wrote in message: > news:Xns91DE606D98B7Aacsfcgnetworksnet@216.166.71.232... > >...< > > The last PDP-11 I saw at a customer site (when replacing; > > a VAX with an Alpha) hadn't been used in years (but waso< > > claimed to be "ready to go" with the RSTS version of our= > > software (long obsolete) if it ever became necessary) and.; > > was just there to "reserve" the space for future use so 9 > > some greedy administrator wouldn't "repurpose" it form< > > some non-computer activity. :-). Not sure if it is still% > > there..... that was back in 2000.: > >... > L > I saw two working PDP-11 machines last fall. Actually one was working, oneH > was a hot standby, a bunch more were in boxes around the room as spareI > parts. I have also seen real working application running on an emulated@8 > PDP-11. When an application works well, it just works!  F Our last pdp-11/60 is on its last legs. In the last 6 months the TE16 F has packed up, a DR-11c, its purpose in life, seems to be misbehaving F but I can't check that because our sole remaining DL-11W is not doing E any I/O. We used to have a bunch of spares but they got 'tidied up'. T Pity really.   -- r Cheers - Dave.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 08:25:15 +0100i) From: Bart Zorn <B.Zorn@xs4all.nospam.nl>c9 Subject: Re: Wanted: VMWare Workstation 3.0 Serial Numberv/ Message-ID: <3CA173DB.1030403@xs4all.nospam.nl>A  	 ti wrote:s > Hi,i? > Does anybody have a serial number for VMWare workstation 3.0?n >  > Thxs >  >  >  >   * Care to elaborate on the following topics?  # - What is a VMWare workstation 3.0?2% - Why would you want a serial number?t# - What has this to do with OpenVMS?B  	 Bart Zornn   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 09:36:12 +0100"/ From: Frederik Meerwaldt <frederik@freddym.org>e9 Subject: Re: Wanted: VMWare Workstation 3.0 Serial Numbere/ Message-ID: <a7s097$vmv$03$1@news.t-online.com>o   Hi!i  & Mail to piracy@vmware.com is sent out.< They can certainly provide you with a valid serial number :)   And:  " [X] Your post is totally off-topic [X] Get a real name  [X] Go away!   Greetings - Freddy   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 13:25:17 -0500a2 From: "Sue Skonetski" <susan.skonetski@compaq.com>Y Subject: White paper now avaialble - Total Cost of Ownership for Enterprise Class Clustern3 Message-ID: <i6oo8.1573$fL6.31255@news.cpqcorp.net>h  L http://www.openvms.compaq.com/openvms/whitepapers/enterprise_tco/enterprise_ tco.pdffE Detailed comparison of the Total Cost of Ownership of four RISC-Based J Cluster Solutions Designed to Provide High Availability.  The four systems< are Compaq OpenVMS , HP9000, IBM RS/6000 and Sun Enterprise.  H Please note that this was not done by Compaq, but by Tech Wise Research.  
 Warm Regards,o   Sueo   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2002.170 ************************