1 INFO-VAX	Thu, 02 May 2002	Volume 2002 : Issue 242       Contents: (remaining) GBLPAGFIL 
 Re: AIM HACK? & Re: Anticipating the HP court decision& Re: Anticipating the HP court decision Backup fails...  advice sought! # Re: Backup fails...  advice sought! # Re: Backup fails...  advice sought! # Re: Backup fails...  advice sought!  Re: Blade architectures " capture single keystroke from DCL?& Re: capture single keystroke from DCL?& Re: capture single keystroke from DCL?& Re: capture single keystroke from DCL? Re: Create AF_LAT socket?  Re: Create AF_LAT socket?  Re: Create AF_LAT socket? - Re: Cross linking (was: Re: VMS SCAN product)   Re: DCPS Help Required..........  Re: DCPS Help Required.......... Deathbed confession?P Re: Does anyone have example code for finding the BG device associated  with a TP Does anyone have example code for finding the BG device associated with a TN ucxP Re: Does anyone have example code for finding the BG device associated with a TNP Re: Does anyone have example code for finding the BG device associated with a TNP Re: Does anyone have example code for finding the BG device associated with a TNP Re: Does anyone have example code for finding the BG device associated with a TN Re: EDT or EVE  Re: Fix for EDT emulation in EVE Re: Gold key Re: Gold key Re: HP vote cleared  Re: HP vote cleared - RE: I was right!  Alpha will live in Itanium! - Re: I was right!  Alpha will live in Itanium!  Re: Itanium troubles Re: Itanium troubles Re: Itanium troubles RE: Itanium troubles Re: license question Memo:  SUBSCRIBE
 New to VAX Re: New to VAX Re: New to VAX Re: New to VAX Re: New to VAX Re: New to VAX Re: New to VAX Re: New to VAX Off Topic - Humo(u)r...  OSU HTTP and FastCGI? 9 Re: Reducing size of incremental backup - will this work? 9 Re: Reducing size of incremental backup - will this work? 9 Re: Reducing size of incremental backup - will this work? 9 Re: Reducing size of incremental backup - will this work? 9 Re: Reducing size of incremental backup - will this work? 9 Re: Reducing size of incremental backup - will this work? 9 Re: Reducing size of incremental backup - will this work? 9 Re: Reducing size of incremental backup - will this work? 9 Re: Reducing size of incremental backup - will this work? 9 Re: Reducing size of incremental backup - will this work? 3 Re: RMS equiv of F$FILE_ATTR( filename, "EOF" ) ??? 3 Re: RMS equiv of F$FILE_ATTR( filename, "EOF" ) ??? 3 Re: RMS equiv of F$FILE_ATTR( filename, "EOF" ) ??? ' Re: SKC Morphs Again... We're Now SKHPC ' Re: SKC Morphs Again... We're Now SKHPC ' Re: SKC Morphs Again... We're Now SKHPC ' Re: SKC Morphs Again... We're Now SKHPC ' Re: SKC Morphs Again... We're Now SKHPC ' Re: SKC Morphs Again... We're Now SKHPC ' RE: SKC Morphs Again... We're Now SKHPC ' Re: SKC Morphs Again... We're Now SKHPC ' Re: SKC Morphs Again... We're Now SKHPC ' Re: SKC Morphs Again... We're Now SKHPC ' Re: SKC Morphs Again... We're Now SKHPC ' Re: SKC Morphs Again... We're Now SKHPC ' Re: SKC Morphs Again... We're Now SKHPC ' Re: SKC Morphs Again... We're Now SKHPC ' Re: SKC Morphs Again... We're Now SKHPC ' Re: SKC Morphs Again... We're Now SKHPC ' Re: SKC Morphs Again... We're Now SKHPC ' Re: SKC Morphs Again... We're Now SKHPC ' Re: SKC Morphs Again... We're Now SKHPC ' Re: SKC Morphs Again... We're Now SKHPC ' Re: SKC Morphs Again... We're Now SKHPC ' Re: SKC Morphs Again... We're Now SKHPC P Re: The 'tone' of c.o.v. (was Re: Prediction:  VMS lives, merger or no  merger!)  UK folks this might interest you8 Virus Scanners (was  URGENT to all Info-VAX subscribers)< Re: Virus Scanners (was  URGENT to all Info-VAX subscribers)< Re: Virus Scanners (was  URGENT to all Info-VAX subscribers)< Re: Virus Scanners (was  URGENT to all Info-VAX subscribers)< Re: Virus Scanners (was  URGENT to all Info-VAX subscribers)< Re: Virus Scanners (was  URGENT to all Info-VAX subscribers)< Re: Virus Scanners (was  URGENT to all Info-VAX subscribers)< Re: Virus Scanners (was  URGENT to all Info-VAX subscribers)( Re: VMS Bigots Unite To Form New Company( Re: VMS Bigots Unite To Form New Company Re: VMS SCAN product Re: VMS SCAN product Re: VMS SCAN product Re: VMS SCAN product Re: VMS SCAN product
 Re: VMSTAR
 Re: VMSTAR
 Re: VMSTAR
 Re: VMSTAR Re: Whining about HPS Times  Re: Whining about HPS Times  Re: Wither ALL-IN-1 ?  Re: Wither ALL-IN-1 ?  Re: Wither ALL-IN-1 ? 6 Re: ZIP strangeness (search list as part of file spec) Re: ZTDRIVER.EXE Re: ZTDRIVER.EXE Re: ZTDRIVER.EXE  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------   Date: 2 May 2002 08:03:05 -0700 " From: cstranslations@msn.com (Joe) Subject: (remaining) GBLPAGFIL= Message-ID: <d56d1c2d.0205020703.5904ef4f@posting.google.com>    OpenVMS 7.1-1H2     E If I'm not mistaken GBLPAGFIL is the SYSGEN parameter determining how ? much of the pagefile is ultimately available for use in section " backing - ie $CRMPSC/SEC$M_PAGFIL.  F Is MMG$GL_GBLPAGFIL the correct place to look to determine how much ofB this is currently available? If so - is there a "supported" way to* collect this bit of information other than   $ analyze/system SDA> read/exec .  .  .  SDA> examine mmg$gl_gblpagfil      TIA  joe    ------------------------------   Date: 2 May 2002 06:26:53 -0000 = From: Doc.Cypher <Use-Author-Supplied-Address-Header@[127.1]>  Subject: Re: AIM HACK?5 Message-ID: <20020502062653.2529.qmail@gacracker.org>   C On 1 May 2002, BaltimorePlayboy@yahoo.com (BaltimorePlayboy) wrote: F >I looked up Doc Cypher and all I saw in ever newsgroup was "How can I> >effectively suck a cock?" But dont worry Doc, you do it well.  I Sunk to the same level as you're at on alt.2600 I see. This penile fetish G of yours is something you should either seek help over, or admit to and B head on over to alt.personals.gay, I'm sure you could find someoneF compatible there, although they'd probably take exception to your foul mouth as well.  . Now GTF bozotroll, you're starting to bore me.     Doc. --  6 The bigger the humbug, the better people will like it.K ~ Phineas Taylor Barnum.                             https://vmsbox.cjb.net    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 02 May 2002 00:58:06 -0400 ( From: David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>/ Subject: Re: Anticipating the HP court decision , Message-ID: <3CD0C75E.5010907@tsoft-inc.com>   Bill Todd wrote:  H > "Brian Tillman" <tillman_brian@notnoone.notnohow.com> wrote in message  > news:3cd009e4$1@news.si.com... >  >>Bill Todd prognosticates:  >> >>K >>>I think the judge will order a new shareholder vote and give Carly & Co.  >>>  > a  >  >>>stern slap on the wrist.  >>> D >>Well, now we know how poorly this prognostication missed the mark. >> > K > Yup.  I probably should stick to more technical matters (such as Compaq's G > unbelievable screw-up with Alpha - though of course since we're still H > waiting for McKinley benchmarks that's still up in the air), given how: > out-of-step I seem to be with contemporary real-politik. > K > On the other hand, I didn't notice you (or Terry) commenting *before* the  > result was known...     , That's part of a thing called 'wisdom'.  :-)   Dave   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 02 May 2002 07:31:33 GMT * From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>/ Subject: Re: Anticipating the HP court decision @ Message-ID: <pX5A8.22185$N8.1955031@bin5.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>  5 "David Froble" <davef@tsoft-inc.com> wrote in message & news:3CD0C75E.5010907@tsoft-inc.com... > Bill Todd wrote:   ...   I > > On the other hand, I didn't notice you (or Terry) commenting *before*  the  > > result was known...  >  > . > That's part of a thing called 'wisdom'.  :-)  I Only if you define 'wisdom' as avoiding at all costs saying anything that I might detract from one's aura of omniscience.  That's not an inhibition I G suffer from, being more inclined just to lay out the available data and : suggest what conclusions seem appropriate to draw from it.  E In this case, I stand by both the data and my conclusions.  As I said K elsewhere, the post got sent by a slip of the finger, before I had appended J the obvious 'IANAL' statement that the law might demand a resolution otherK than the clearly rational one (to give the judge the benefit of the doubt). I I was happy to see that Hewlett's closing statement was very similar:  he L may not be much of a politician, but he's OK in my book - in marked contrast to the slime he was fighting.    - bill   ------------------------------   Date: 2 May 2002 06:01:40 -0700  From: mjriain@hotmail.com (Mat) ( Subject: Backup fails...  advice sought!< Message-ID: <1651e909.0205020501.19177b1@posting.google.com>   Hello!  ? I've created a backup job by copying an existing .COM file from > another server in my cluster and editing it to suit my needs.  However, it keeps falling over!   F I've isolated the error in the .COM file, but I am not sure how to fixB it.  I don't have all that much VMS knowledge, so anything you can contribute would be welcome!  8 Here is an excerpt from my backup log showing the error:   "%DCL-E-OPENIN, error opening 3 II_SYSTEM:[INGRES.UTILITY]IIRMSSYMDEF.COM; as input A -RMS-F-DEV, error in device name or inappropriate device type for 	 operation %   SYSTEM       job terminated at...."   D I believe that the problem is with the ii_system logical, that it isE either not defined or defined incorrectly.  How could I check to make  sure?    Thanks,    Matthew    ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 2 May 2002 15:09:05 +0100* From: "Rainer Giese" <giese@volkswerft.de>, Subject: Re: Backup fails...  advice sought!5 Message-ID: <aardpg$d4hfa$1@ID-138444.news.dfncis.de>   F > I believe that the problem is with the ii_system logical, that it isG > either not defined or defined incorrectly.  How could I check to make  > sure?   L You're right. Somewhere in your backup procedure is a call to a procedure on5 that disk (which I guess defines symbols for Ingres).  Check logicals by      $ SHOW LOGICAL logical_name    ------------------------------   Date: 2 May 2002 08:14:14 -0500  From: briggs@encompasserve.org, Subject: Re: Backup fails...  advice sought!3 Message-ID: <girbCJkrviZY@eisner.encompasserve.org>   ^ In article <1651e909.0205020501.19177b1@posting.google.com>, mjriain@hotmail.com (Mat) writes: > Hello! > A > I've created a backup job by copying an existing .COM file from @ > another server in my cluster and editing it to suit my needs. ! > However, it keeps falling over!  > H > I've isolated the error in the .COM file, but I am not sure how to fixD > it.  I don't have all that much VMS knowledge, so anything you can > contribute would be welcome! > : > Here is an excerpt from my backup log showing the error: >  > "%DCL-E-OPENIN, error opening 5 > II_SYSTEM:[INGRES.UTILITY]IIRMSSYMDEF.COM; as input C > -RMS-F-DEV, error in device name or inappropriate device type for  > operation ' >   SYSTEM       job terminated at...."  > F > I believe that the problem is with the ii_system logical, that it isG > either not defined or defined incorrectly.  How could I check to make  > sure?   D Put a $ SHOW LOGICAL /FULL II_SYSTEM into your .COM file immediately prior to the BACKUP command   A When you inspect the output file, you should see relevant output.    	John Briggs   ------------------------------   Date: 2 May 2002 14:56:32 GMT 2 From: ap333@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Marvin Kaplansky), Subject: Re: Backup fails...  advice sought!/ Message-ID: <aark30$f7l$1@freenet9.carleton.ca>   ! Mat (mjriain@hotmail.com) writes:  > Hello! > A > I've created a backup job by copying an existing .COM file from @ > another server in my cluster and editing it to suit my needs. ! > However, it keeps falling over!  > H > I've isolated the error in the .COM file, but I am not sure how to fixD > it.  I don't have all that much VMS knowledge, so anything you can > contribute would be welcome! > : > Here is an excerpt from my backup log showing the error: >  > "%DCL-E-OPENIN, error opening 5 > II_SYSTEM:[INGRES.UTILITY]IIRMSSYMDEF.COM; as input C > -RMS-F-DEV, error in device name or inappropriate device type for  > operation ' >   SYSTEM       job terminated at...."  > F > I believe that the problem is with the ii_system logical, that it isG > either not defined or defined incorrectly.  How could I check to make  > sure?  > 	 > Thanks,  > 	 > Matthew   F The II_SYSTEM logicals are typical of an Ingres installation which youG presumably have on the source system but not on the one you are working ; on. Look at the backup procedure and remove the call to the & IIRMSSYMDEF.COM and that should do it.     Marvin Kaplansky   ------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 1 May 2002 23:10:37 +08000 From: =?big5?B?pP2yUbtU?= <jechen@ms9.hinet.net>  Subject: Re: Blade architectures8 Message-ID: <000301c1f123$a4d8b720$871620a3@oemcomputer>   unscribe   ----- Original Message -----, =B1H=A5=F3=AA=CC: hack <hack@watson.ibm.com>+ =A6=AC=A5=F3=AA=CC: <Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com> 7 =B6=C7=B0e=A4=E9=B4=C1: 2002=A6~4=A4=EB8=A4=E9 PM 11:25 # =A5D=A6=AE: Re: Blade architectures     H > In article <a8n838$t2o@web.nmti.com>, Peter da Silva <peter@abbnm.com> wrote:I > >In article <a8ki0e$c5c$1@news.btv.ibm.com>, hack <hack@watson.ibm.com>  wrote:I > >> When we (the group that developed the experimental OS that I'm still  using J > >> 20 years later) developed our network protocols over Ethernet, we ha= d  NOA > >> connection timeouts whatsoever.  (Time only entered into the  exponential J > >> backoff algorithm at the lowest level, below connections.)  This mea= nt thatF > >> we could start a remote-backup process on Friday night and see it	 completed J > >> on Monday morning even though the network was scheduled for maintena= nce  overF > >> the weekend (involving cutting and rerouting cables).  Most other
 people had> > >> to worry about this (they were using TCP-based services). > > ? > >What does their using TCP-based services have to do with it?  > > G > >Or do you mean "they were using applications that either implemented  their J > >own timeouts, or set TCP socket options to force timeouts, or were usi= ng a @ > >network stack that forced timeouts for some perverse reason"? > > > > >I have certainly had sessions maintained through hours-long interruptions,J > >and I was absolutely flabbergasted the first time I had a Windows-base= d J > >system CLOSE ALL MY NETWORK CONNECTIONS when I moved a network cable f= rom B > >the 10M hub under my desk to the nice new 100M port on my wall. > > F > >There's some really broken network stacks and applications, but TCP itselfJ > >should happily keep resending packets into the void as long as need be. > J > The *protocol* (TCP) includes bounded time-outs on the order of 45s, an= d J > these are necessary because of the short (16-bit) sequence numbers.  Th= isJ > is to protect against confusing a new stream whose sequence number happ= ens D > to match the next expected sequence number of an abandoned stream. > J > I always attributed the observed fact that many applications die when t= heJ > physical connection is broken to this.  It may well be possible to take=  aJ > TCP connection though a sequence of states that permits unbounded perio= dsJ > of idleness, but my impression was that stopping transmission at arbitr= ary J > points in time for arbitrary amounts of time was disruptive to TCP-base= d E > applications (above and beyond extra time required for completion).  > E > You may be right though that many applications simply don't use the  protocol > in a robust manner.  >    ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 2 May 2002 09:11:00 -0700+ From: "Mike Scott" <mscott_NOSPAM@axys.com> + Subject: capture single keystroke from DCL?  Message-ID: <3cd1651e@nubby2.>  L I've been surfing for two hours now - nuthin.  I would LOVE a way to captureG a single keystroke within a DCL script (no other languages/compilers on H sys).  Obviously, I'm refering to keys other than [ENTER] ;-{).  A bonus8 would be the ability to also capture a cursor keystroke. -with thanks   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 02 May 2002 16:38:56 GMT 5 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> / Subject: Re: capture single keystroke from DCL?29 Message-ID: <AYdA8.15$Zo2.478355@cacnews.cac.cpqcorp.net>e  E Write yourself a program to do it.  It shouldn't take more than a feweI minutes to work it out, or more than an hour or so to write it, debug it,a
 and share it.       1 Mike Scott wrote in message <3cd1651e@nubby2.>... E >I've been surfing for two hours now - nuthin.  I would LOVE a way too captureeH >a single keystroke within a DCL script (no other languages/compilers onI >sys).  Obviously, I'm refering to keys other than [ENTER] ;-{).  A bonus 9 >would be the ability to also capture a cursor keystroke.s
 >-with thanks  >  >    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 02 May 2002 13:05:50 -0400.% From: Jim Agnew <agnew@mail2.vcu.edu>a/ Subject: Re: capture single keystroke from DCL? - Message-ID: <3CD171EE.7A312EE8@mail2.vcu.edu>c  B There's a DECUS program called PROMPT that does it.  we've used it since, oh, 'bout 1987...   talk about ancient code....w   Fred Kleinsorge wrote: > G > Write yourself a program to do it.  It shouldn't take more than a fewyK > minutes to work it out, or more than an hour or so to write it, debug it,s > and share it.p > 3 > Mike Scott wrote in message <3cd1651e@nubby2.>...eG > >I've been surfing for two hours now - nuthin.  I would LOVE a way toy	 > capturetJ > >a single keystroke within a DCL script (no other languages/compilers onK > >sys).  Obviously, I'm refering to keys other than [ENTER] ;-{).  A bonuse; > >would be the ability to also capture a cursor keystroke.s > >-with thankss > >  > >    ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 2 May 2002 10:58:08 -0700+ From: "Mike Scott" <mscott_NOSPAM@axys.com> / Subject: Re: capture single keystroke from DCL?P Message-ID: <3cd17e4b@nubby2.>   Jim,  J Went to DECUS.  This is now ENCOMPASS, a fee-based service -sheesh....  IsI this very old utility you mentioned copyright protected?  If not, can you 3 send it to me?  I can't find anywhere else find it.  -thankse  2 "Jim Agnew" <agnew@mail2.vcu.edu> wrote in message' news:3CD171EE.7A312EE8@mail2.vcu.edu...uD > There's a DECUS program called PROMPT that does it.  we've used it > since, oh, 'bout 1987... >f > talk about ancient code....  >k > Fred Kleinsorge wrote: > >eI > > Write yourself a program to do it.  It shouldn't take more than a fewiI > > minutes to work it out, or more than an hour or so to write it, debugM it,i > > and share it.i > >e5 > > Mike Scott wrote in message <3cd1651e@nubby2.>... I > > >I've been surfing for two hours now - nuthin.  I would LOVE a way ton > > capture L > > >a single keystroke within a DCL script (no other languages/compilers onG > > >sys).  Obviously, I'm refering to keys other than [ENTER] ;-{).  Aa bonuse= > > >would be the ability to also capture a cursor keystroke.K > > >-with thankse > > >  > > >    ------------------------------   Date: 2 May 2002 08:43:12 +0100r8 From: "Fredrik Blomstedt" <fredrik.blomstedt@bnearit.se>" Subject: Re: Create AF_LAT socket?( Message-ID: <3cd0ee10$1@news.wineasy.se>   Sorry... ...under OpenVMS.r  ' Aren't the LAT protocol implemented for ' sockets? Maybe the socket functionality + were designed to support LAT in the future?   - Is the QIO Interface the 'only' way to access  LAT driver?s  ' Someone who have a sample C source thatA are using LAT?   Thanks!e   Greetings Fredrik.    F "Fredrik Blomstedt" <fredrik.blomstedt@bnearit.se> skrev i meddelandet" news:3cce5872$1@news.wineasy.se... > Hi!e >r, > How to create a LAT socket and address it? >u8 > For creating the socket, should it be something like :& > lats = socket(PF_LAT,STREAM,AF_LAT); > or?A >u4 > Were can I get some information about this? How to7 > address a LAT-socket with connect, bind, read, write?l >f: > I need information about the most common socket commands@ > like : socket, setsockopt, bind,  connect, read and send - for > LAT usage... >e > Please...e >(	 > Thanks!  >a > Greetings Fredrik. >  >  >u >c   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 02 May 2002 10:23:17 +0200o9 From: Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com>e" Subject: Re: Create AF_LAT socket?' Message-ID: <3CD0F775.FAD05935@aaa.com>p  7 I thought one just did a MC LATCP CREATE PORT to defineM3 a "LAT device" (LTAnnnn device), and then used someh6 normal methods to open/read/write/whetever to/from it.  4 Maybe if you need some of the more fancy features of4 the QIO system calls, you might need to go that way.   Jan-Erik Sderholm.e   Fredrik Blomstedt wrote: > 
 > Sorry... > ...under OpenVMS.- > ) > Aren't the LAT protocol implemented for3) > sockets? Maybe the socket functionalityo- > were designed to support LAT in the future?  > / > Is the QIO Interface the 'only' way to access 
 > LAT driver?  > ) > Someone who have a sample C source thatE > are using LAT? > 	 > Thanks!h >  > Greetings Fredrik. >y   ------------------------------   Date: 2 May 2002 08:21:26 -0500 - From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)o" Subject: Re: Create AF_LAT socket?3 Message-ID: <jaAYq6LTXTBP@eisner.encompasserve.org>o  c In article <3cd0ee10$1@news.wineasy.se>, "Fredrik Blomstedt" <fredrik.blomstedt@bnearit.se> writes:i
 > Sorry... > ...under OpenVMS.o > ) > Aren't the LAT protocol implemented for ) > sockets? Maybe the socket functionality<- > were designed to support LAT in the future?u  A    Under Ultrix, and I assume, Tru64 LAT and DECnet Phase IV wererA    implemented via the socket concept, something UNIX programmersoD    were already familiar with, and failry easy to reach from C basedB    languages.  (Anybody ever to to call socket() from a UNIX f77?)  @    Under VMS, programmers are more familiar with $QIO, something*    failry easy to reach from any language.   ------------------------------   Date: 2 May 2002 07:44:04 -0500.- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) 6 Subject: Re: Cross linking (was: Re: VMS SCAN product)3 Message-ID: <6bRk7wwLdBvB@eisner.encompasserve.org>y  b In article <3cd00c0d$1@news.si.com>, "Brian Tillman" <tillman_brian@notnoone.notnohow.com> writes:G >>   I was under the impression that the currently shipping versions of ( >>   LINK include cross link capability. > N > I've wondered about that myself.  On a VAX, if I use the /ALPHA qualifier toC > the LINK command, does it produce an Alpha image from VAX object?0  F    $link/vax links VAX objects to form VAX images.  $link/alpha links B    Alpha objects to form Alpha images.  The default if neither is 0    specified is to assume the host architecture.  .    As in $help link /vax or $help link /alpha.   ------------------------------   Date: 2 May 2002 01:45 CDT' From: carl@gerg.tamu.edu (Carl Perkins)o) Subject: Re: DCPS Help Required.......... , Message-ID: <2MAY200201454717@gerg.tamu.edu>  1 JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> writes...e }Carl Perkins wrote:D }> Alternatively, you can use your PS module that now works once andA }> apply it to every page. In the DEFINE/FORM command you can useeB }> /PAGE_SETUP instead of /SETUP. This applies the module from theD }> device control library to the start of every page instead of just }> the start of the file.g } ( }How would this be implemented by DCPS ?  7 It probably isn't implemented, now that you mention it.   > But it wouldn't be too difficult to do, conceptually. You even mention a way to do it below.s  O }While the text symbiont has a fairly easy way to find the start of a new page,eO }the postscript one doesn't. It is very hard to figure out when postscript codelJ }actually generates a new page. (That is why DCPS interrogates the printerL }before and after a job to figure out how many pages were spewed out because< }there is no way to tell by looking at the postscript code).  E Actually, you have to be able to tell how many pages get printed fromsI looking at the postscript code. If you couldn't then the printer couldn't H either and you would never get useful output from it. It "just" requiresL you to actually run all the postscript code through a postscript interpreterH with the same behavior as the one in the printer (which would be easy ifK they all behaved identically, but they don't) and see what it works out to.w  M }The only way DCPS could emulate the /PAGE_SETUP is to wrap the module into aeL }routine and redefine showpage to do a normal showpage and then execute that: }routine that contains the code of the /PAGE_SETUP module.  G Sounds easy enough to me... (at least, it does as long as it is someone D who knows postscript pretty well who is doing it). Don't forget thatD it also needs to send the data to the first page before any showpageC is done (should you ever find yourself employed by the producers ofo DCPS to do this).   E It could also directly dump the module into the file at the beginningeG and also after every showpage in the input file, rather than redefiningpJ the showpage. This would require that it be directly processing everythingG that goes to the printer - which it certainly does for some of the datagC formats as they are translated to postscript, but probably does notb? currently do for data that is already in the postscript format.I  0 Oh well. It seemed like a good idea at the time.   --- Carl   ------------------------------   Date: 2 May 2002 04:53:53 -0700 6 From: mgattaura@collins-stewart.com (Mandeep Gattaura)) Subject: Re: DCPS Help Required..........h= Message-ID: <781290e2.0205020353.281957cc@posting.google.com>   " >*********************************! >%% Definition of form dictionary-# >%*********************************0' >userdict /vagform 7 dict dup begin puto >/FormType 1 def >/BBox [0 0 350 390] def >/Matrix [1 0 0 1 0 0] def >/PaintProc {drawpage} def >end >.  >/old_showpage showpage load def >i
 >/showpage >{ old_showpage  >   vagform execform >} def9 >--------------------------------------------------------u) userdict /SOME-DICTNAME-HERE 2 copy knownk >   { pop pop }  >   {  >   2 dict dup 4 1 roll puti	 >   begind >   :  %% postscript code  >   : /SOME-FORM-NAME-HERE ( >   :  %% postscript code  >   :-
 >   ) cvx def- >-$ >   /old-showpage /showpage load def >   endr >s
 >   /showpageo	 >       {:/ >       userdict /SOME-DICT-NAME-HERE get begin 
 >       gsavei >       initgraphics >       SOME-FORM-NAME-HERE0 >       grestore >       old-showpage >       endc	 >       }i >  def >   }  >ifelsee  E Thank you for all of the replies, but I still need a bit more info oneB this one. I am trying to implement postscript printing on our live@ system, that currently uses the FOLE printing system. We need to; implement the printing system avoiding major changes to ourtF applications. At present they print standard text files. We can eitherB print these as they are with minor format changes, or convert them' into postscript using the a2ps utility.S  @ I don't know postscript, I created the postscript module using a@ postscript print driver and then printing the PDF overlay to the> postscript driver using the print to file option. So sorry for< sounding a bit thick - I am not sure how to add the userdict@ definition to my postscript code. Do I need to define the actual; output part of the form, or do I need to include all of theO9 functions/features defined at the beginning of the file ?u    E The first part of the file that isn't function definitions looks like 	 this.....-          currentdict readonly pop       end end-      /currentpacking where {pop setpacking}ifa>      PDFVars/DocInitAll{[]{/docinitialize get exec}forall }put?      PDFVars/InitAll{[PDF PDFImage]{/initialize get exec}forallc
 initgs}putB      PDFVars/TermAll{[PDFImage PDF]{/terminate get exec}forall}put      PDFVars begin PDF begin9      PDFVars/DocInitAll get exec PDFVars/InitAll get exece%      PDFVars/TermAll get exec end endi5      PDFVars begin PDF begin PDFVars/InitAll get execo      %%Page: 1 1	      save       0 -1 translatew8      0 0 595 842 true PDF begin PDFVars begin AS end end      /N4 <<i      /SA false         >> /ExtGState defineRes pop      0 0 595 842 RC       0 g       /N4 /ExtGState findRes gsDI      q$      5.52 0 0 -4.8 99.84 30.96001 cm      v      eD Would the userdict definition have start here and include all of theA statements down to the end of the file, which looks like this....i   317.485 660.47 m 283.465 660.47 l S   PDFVars/TermAll get exec end end restore  %%EOF     C Any help/pointers that can be provided will be greatly appreciated.a   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 02 May 2002 15:57:22 GMTe* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> Subject: Deathbed confession?p@ Message-ID: <CldA8.30311$v7.2199115@bin6.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>  H On the eve of its assimilation by Carly, Compaq finally acknowledges theI first of what is likely to be a *very* long string of 'Never mind...'s on.	 its part:c  F "The fact that Office Server on Alpha EV79 will still outperform IA-64C through the middle of the decade..." (see 'Wjtber ALL-IN-1 thread).=  G Now, even if that statement refers to the great-unwashed-masses date of I 12/31/04 rather than to the technically-correct date of 12/31/05, here we J have a definite indication that EV79 (EV7 in a 0.13-micron process, slatedH to appear in 2004) is expected to out-perform Montecito (Itanic in - oneK expects, since Madison is already 0.13-micron - a 0.09-micron process, alsopI slated to appear in 2004).  So had EV8 appeared as scheduled in 2004 withpH twice the projected performance (in multi-thread use) of the EV6/7 core,K something like the 3:1 per-processor performance advantage that I suggesteda. with many months ago looks just about spot-on.   - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 02 May 2002 18:17:58 +0100nC From: Jamie Stallwood <this.no.worky-try.sommat.else@project76.net>wY Subject: Re: Does anyone have example code for finding the BG device associated  with a Ta8 Message-ID: <r4t2dus9a61k2r7207tg68o57f24v6ecbf@4ax.com>  2 On Thu, 02 May 2002 11:18:30 -0400, Micheal Austin# <maustin@firstdbasource.com> wrote:e   >Jamie Stallwood wrote:O >> yE >> Does anyone have example code for finding the BG device associated ! >> with a TN ucx telnet terminal?o >> s >> subject says it all > I >no, but a dcl (or lengthy PIPE command) that compares SHOW DEV TNxx/FULLn; >and SHOW DEV BG/FULL using the owner ID would do the trick   < I thougth that the BG was owned by the ACP and the TN by the process...but I may be wrong...b   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 02 May 2002 15:30:04 +0100 C From: Jamie Stallwood <this.no.worky-try.sommat.else@project76.net>tY Subject: Does anyone have example code for finding the BG device associated with a TN ucx 8 Message-ID: <h7j2duk27tok6cp9p31fpougitdbmc9l4f@4ax.com>  B Does anyone have example code for finding the BG device associated with a TN ucx telnet terminal?     subject says it alls   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 02 May 2002 18:36:09 +0100cC From: Jamie Stallwood <this.no.worky-try.sommat.else@project76.net> Y Subject: Re: Does anyone have example code for finding the BG device associated with a TNe8 Message-ID: <u5u2dusltv3pej2g5sgt991r1uvflev4i1@4ax.com>  3 On Thu, 02 May 2002 15:30:04 +0100, Jamie Stallwood 4 <this.no.worky-try.sommat.else@project76.net> wrote:  C >Does anyone have example code for finding the BG device associatedm >with a TN ucx telnet terminal?a >i >o >subject says it all  A Or if that can't be done programatically, does anyone know how tosA attach a BG device to  a terminal created from template (TNA0:) ?m  " My hair is neraly torn out here :)   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 02 May 2002 11:18:30 -0400a1 From: Micheal Austin <maustin@firstdbasource.com>eY Subject: Re: Does anyone have example code for finding the BG device associated with a TNp2 Message-ID: <3CD158C6.1208AA24@firstdbasource.com>   Jamie Stallwood wrote: > D > Does anyone have example code for finding the BG device associated  > with a TN ucx telnet terminal? >  > subject says it alls  H no, but a dcl (or lengthy PIPE command) that compares SHOW DEV TNxx/FULL: and SHOW DEV BG/FULL using the owner ID would do the trick -- t Regards,  7 Michael Austin            Registered Linux User #26116317 First DBA Source, Inc.    http://www.firstdbasource.como Sr. Consultant 704-947-1089 (Office)  704-236-4377 (Mobile)e   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 02 May 2002 13:30:35 -0400a1 From: Micheal Austin <maustin@firstdbasource.com>eY Subject: Re: Does anyone have example code for finding the BG device associated with a TNt2 Message-ID: <3CD177BB.B7263FDF@firstdbasource.com>   Jamie Stallwood wrote: > 4 > On Thu, 02 May 2002 11:18:30 -0400, Micheal Austin% > <maustin@firstdbasource.com> wrote:L >  > >Jamie Stallwood wrote:p > >>G > >> Does anyone have example code for finding the BG device associatedo# > >> with a TN ucx telnet terminal?a > >> > >> subject says it all > >aK > >no, but a dcl (or lengthy PIPE command) that compares SHOW DEV TNxx/FULL5 Jamie Stallwood wrote: > 4 > On Thu, 02 May 2002 11:18:30 -0400, Micheal Austin% > <maustin@firstdbasource.com> wrote:E >  > >Jamie Stallwood wrote:h > >>G > >> Does anyone have example code for finding the BG device associatedo# > >> with a TN ucx telnet terminal?. > >> > >> subject says it all > > K > >no, but a dcl (or lengthy PIPE command) that compares SHOW DEV TNxx/FULLu= > >and SHOW DEV BG/FULL using the owner ID would do the tricku > > > I thougth that the BG was owned by the ACP and the TN by the! > process...but I may be wrong...g  = > >and SHOW DEV BG/FULL using the owner ID would do the trick  > > > I thougth that the BG was owned by the ACP and the TN by the! > process...but I may be wrong...f  F After going to lunch and thinking about it a bit, your are correct.  AF terminal is not associated with a BG device - at least not using TCPIPG 5.1.  Actually I realized it when I started to craft the aforementionedmE PIPE command and couldn't find the owner id in the BG output.. then IeA really looked at the output .. and came back to relay that to thet original poster.  Thanks.P   -- f Regards,  7 Michael Austin            Registered Linux User #261163 7 First DBA Source, Inc.    http://www.firstdbasource.com  Sr. Consultant 704-947-1089 (Office)a 704-236-4377 (Mobile)n   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 02 May 2002 14:00:24 -0400u1 From: Micheal Austin <maustin@firstdbasource.com> Y Subject: Re: Does anyone have example code for finding the BG device associated with a TNr2 Message-ID: <3CD17EB8.8F938A24@firstdbasource.com>   Jamie Stallwood wrote: > 5 > On Thu, 02 May 2002 15:30:04 +0100, Jamie Stallwoodr6 > <this.no.worky-try.sommat.else@project76.net> wrote: > E > >Does anyone have example code for finding the BG device associated ! > >with a TN ucx telnet terminal?n > >n > >. > >subject says it all > C > Or if that can't be done programatically, does anyone know how togC > attach a BG device to  a terminal created from template (TNA0:) ?  > $ > My hair is neraly torn out here :)  H Why don't you tell us what you are trying to accomplish - then we may be! able to give you some assistance.- -- - Regards,  7 Michael Austin            Registered Linux User #261163f7 First DBA Source, Inc.    http://www.firstdbasource.coms Sr. Consultant 704-947-1089 (Office)n 704-236-4377 (Mobile).   ------------------------------   Date: 2 May 2002 08:50:45 -0700?) From: P.Young@unsw.EDU.AU (Patrick Young)g Subject: Re: EDT or EVE = Message-ID: <55f85d77.0205020750.108d1d0a@posting.google.com>   s SPAMSINK2001@YAHOO.COM (Alan E. Feldman) wrote in message news:<343f30ae.0204291733.3feb0cd5@posting.google.com>...oF > I apologize if I appear to be nitpicking but I feel that it is quiteC > likely that newbies reading your post would assume that you can'taF > define keys in EDT when you clearly can. Not as easily, perhaps, but > you can do it. >LI > > I defined LEARN as how it functions in KED (the PDP-11 Keypad EDitor)sG > > which I have used under the RT-11 operating system. LEARN also fits  > G > OK, you are surprised that you can't see your key-defining keystrokestA > in EDT. OK. But that wasn't mentioned in your original message.  >   G DEC was very good at keeping commands as consistent as possible between-E editors. KED had LEARN, EDT did not, EVE does. Also between Operating F Systems (off topic - DEC Operating Systems should use upper case O & SD and M$ operating systems be lower case o & s - an idea - should I goH with it?. I've needed the term a lot and need to know which is correct).  9 Anyway, please note the original UPPER CASE use of LEARN.t  L > > Because you can't see on the screen the results on the text to be editedH > > as you make up your macro sequence. Using LEARN, you are essentiallyH > > *testing* and *editing* your macro sequence as you are composing it.E > Yes, I understand this difference. But as I said above, you made it C > sound like EDT cannot define keys at all. That was my main point. 
 > That's all.r >   A For that I am sorry, it can define keys - not something I've usedsA in quite a while however, and, as you know - I have a bad memory.i   ------------------------------   Date: 2 May 2002 08:05:21 -05002- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)r) Subject: Re: Fix for EDT emulation in EVET3 Message-ID: <ETF93ncUdRp2@eisner.encompasserve.org>r  [ In article <3CD09E8B.948F0A49@fsi.net>, "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> writes:a   > In EDT, it's: # > DEFINE KEY GOLD  C AS "D+CCUNDC."  >  > In TPU, it's something like: >  > PROCEDURE transpose_char > 	eve$edt_delete_char;d > 	eve_move_right; > 	eve_restore_character;d > endprocedure  G    Good example.  The EDT code is as impossible to read as a UNIX shell B    script.  You don't even have to know TPU to figure out what the    procedure is doing.   ------------------------------  + Date: Thu, 02 May 2002 09:38:08 +0100 (MET))9 From: Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>s Subject: Re: Gold keyy; Message-ID: <01KH8XAZ15JM8ZG5L9@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>-  J > The reason it's called 'gold key' was that at one point Digital actually3 > manufactured keyboards with a 'gold key' on them.  >  > I still have one..   Wow!  Wonders never cease!  F I always thought it was because this key is filled in on the keyboard E map and thus appeared gold on the old amber terminals.  (I have seen tH white, green and amber terminals---the latter are the most common in my H experience.  I think some ergonomics expert determined that this colour 	 is best.)    ------------------------------   Date: 2 May 2002 06:41:02 -0700t. From: SPAMSINK2001@YAHOO.COM (Alan E. Feldman) Subject: Re: Gold keyi= Message-ID: <343f30ae.0205020541.4fea0db9@posting.google.com>i  | Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> wrote in message news:<01KH8XAZ15JM8ZG5L9@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>...L > > The reason it's called 'gold key' was that at one point Digital actually5 > > manufactured keyboards with a 'gold key' on them.e > >  > > I still have one.. >  > Wow!  Wonders never cease! > H > I always thought it was because this key is filled in on the keyboard G > map and thus appeared gold on the old amber terminals.  (I have seen .J > white, green and amber terminals---the latter are the most common in my J > experience.  I think some ergonomics expert determined that this colour  > is best.)s    E In my experience I have always found amber to be the easiest to read.dD I have read that the eye's acuity (and its sensitivity [IIRC], henceE the perceived contrast in this case) is best near yellow wavelengths.t# That also jives with my experience.t     Disclaimer: JMHO Alan E. Feldmant" afeldman atski gfigroup dotski com   ------------------------------   Date: 2 May 2002 00:56 CDT' From: carl@gerg.tamu.edu (Carl Perkins)  Subject: Re: HP vote cleared, Message-ID: <2MAY200200563730@gerg.tamu.edu>  1 JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> writes...t }"Terry C. Shannon" wrote:O }> Word has it this will happen once the acquisition is a done deal. The PowerspE }> That Be did not have the guts to come forth with same prior to the  }> consummation of the deal. } K }please define "done deal" ? At what point will Carly run out of excuses tot }avoid talking about VMS ?  J I don't know - but we recently got a letter from the director of e-server / marketing at IBM, Alex Gogh. It goes like this:v  B   Compaq's decision to discontinue it's Alpha server line means anF   inevitable platform migration now looms more closely in your future.D   Your existing IT roadmaps should be re-examined, and major choices2   in your infrastructure strategy need to be made.  E   To help you make the optimal IT migration choices, IBM - a provideroG   with decades of experience help businesses chart effective IT paths -D0   has developed two new complementary resources:  $         The Migration TeleconferenceB   [... info about a May 21 teleconference  - strategies, "hardwareB        options for discontinued platfor users", "experts" from the        Gartner Group ...]n  '         The Online Migration AssessmentlC   [... info about what you can find at ibm.com/eserver/migration/n1bH        which I havn't checed out, but may just to see what is there ...]  D   No matter how you choose to migrate, these resources will help youF   become more informed on this important topic. Don't miss this chance*   to make the most of your next migration.   Now that is marketing. t  ? I have no idea how they got our info, or decided who to send it0@ to (the letter actually went to my boss's boss). This would tendB to indicate that they are putting some effort into this. CertainlyA a nigh unto infinite multiple of the amount of effort that HP has* put into it so far.%  A If our small organization got such a letter, I would imagine that0A most of the other people here either have gotten one or are aboutx to get one.]   --- Carl   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 02 May 2002 08:47:34 +0200s9 From: Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com>f Subject: Re: HP vote cleared' Message-ID: <3CD0E106.2862B3D4@aaa.com>-  9 Or thers boss's boss are going to get it, and then, aftero5 a while, those on *this* list will get a message thati3 "Our corporate standard on computers just changed.)-  = That's how IBM has been doing marketing for years, isn't it ?    Jan-Erik Sderholm.g     Carl Perkins wrote:  >  > A > I have no idea how they got our info, or decided who to send it 2 > to (the letter actually went to my boss's boss). >RC > If our small organization got such a letter, I would imagine that C > most of the other people here either have gotten one or are abouts
 > to get one.e > 
 > --- Carl   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 2 May 2002 11:06:58 -0400+ From: "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@Compaq.com>n6 Subject: RE: I was right!  Alpha will live in Itanium!T Message-ID: <BE56C50EA024184DAF48F0B9A47F5CF401AB1EE9@kaoexc01.americas.cpqcorp.net>   Andrew,r  E >>> Imagine that I am a customer that has an app that requires SybaseoA you pitch the GS320, HP pitches the SuperDome. There are no TPC-CcF results using Sybase for either but there are Oracle ones and with theE Oracle results it would appear that the GS320 has slightly better perl CPU throughput that the HP.>>>  = You obviously have a much dimmer view of Customers than I do.t  H Most Customers I know that are about to make a major $250K decision willH always want to run some form of benchmark of their own at some benchmarkB center) with not only the database, but also their application.=20  G Even if they do not have a benchmark done, the Cust will typically have D some clause in their agreement that if the vendor does not meet some: target performance goals, then that vendor is on the hook.  E And keep in mind that large database with large amounts of VLM memorys< and big SMP config's are a major effort to tune as well. =20  E You might want to spin the "SMP is better in all cases" scenario, butc that is clearly incorrect.  G It depends on many things, but why restate stuff that has been rehasheds many times?e   Regards,    
 Kerry Main Senior Consultantr Compaq Canada Corp.5 Professional ServicesV Voice: 613-592-4660  Fax  :  819-772-7036 Email: Kerry.Main@Compaq.com     -----Original Message-----' From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy 7 [mailto:andrew_nospam.harrison_remove_this@sun#.com]=20v Sent: May 1, 2002 12:54 PM To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com 5 Subject: Re: I was right! Alpha will live in Itanium!h         Main, Kerry wrote:  E >>>>RAC is not a way to improve overall performance *in general*, butc >>>>H > only after an SMP (or perhaps slightly NUMA) single-Oracle-instance=20- > solution has started to run out of gas: <<<- >=20H > I stated in my original note that RAC is not for every application. It  H > is no different than SMP is not for every application. Both require an  B > understanding of the applications and the underlying hardware=20 > configurations.l >=20    
 Nice spin.  E Claiming that RAC and SMP are in some way comparable when it comes to E applicability as far as running applications is concerned is rubbish.p  E For one thing Oracle 9i RAC isn't the only DBMS on the market Sybase,tG Informix, DB2 are also available and they don't support clusters in theeF same way that Oracle does. For apps that require these DBMS's SMP is a6 much better option than a parallel clustered solution.  D The bottom line is that people don't do clusters for throughput withG DBMS's until they have exhausted the scalability options within the SMP.G system that they are using. This is for good reason, Oracle charge morehG for RAC and OPS and lots of the apps vendors like SAP, Siebel and untilcH recently Oracle themselves don't support it. Incedentally if you want toD verify the increased costs of having to use OPS then look no further, than your own TPC-C results which detail it.  G And thats why your attempts to compare results from a NUMA system usingi? OPS in a box to get performance with non OPS results for SMP=20c machines is missleading.  E Imagine that I am a customer that has an app that requires Sybase yourE pitch the GS320, HP pitches the SuperDome. There are no TPC-C results:E using Sybase for either but there are Oracle ones and with the OracleeB results it would appear that the GS320 has slightly better per CPU throughput that the HP.e  ? The customer ends up buying a smaller GS or a larger HP withoutlE realising that the tuning trick that got the GS320 30% better per CPUNE throughput and tipped the balance in its favour on a per CPU basis is 4 not available to them because they are using Sybase.  : I have absolutely nothing against OPS its a very good tool7 for providing increased levels of uptime, but it cannot 6 be relied appon in the same way as a SMP system can to' deliver increased levels of throughput.x   Regardsf Andrew Harrison   8 P.S What happend to the SAP/Oracle Apps/TPC-H comparison you seem fixated on TPC-C.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 02 May 2002 17:16:46 +0100iU From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <andrew_nospam.harrison_remove_this@sun#.com>-6 Subject: Re: I was right!  Alpha will live in Itanium!0 Message-ID: <aarope$p9h$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   Main, Kerry wrote:  	 > Andrew,v >  > E >>>>Imagine that I am a customer that has an app that requires Sybaseu >>>>C > you pitch the GS320, HP pitches the SuperDome. There are no TPC-C1H > results using Sybase for either but there are Oracle ones and with theG > Oracle results it would appear that the GS320 has slightly better per   > CPU throughput that the HP.>>> > ? > You obviously have a much dimmer view of Customers than I do.l > J > Most Customers I know that are about to make a major $250K decision willJ > always want to run some form of benchmark of their own at some benchmarkB > center) with not only the database, but also their application.  >      Really  B The first TPC-C number released by Compaq for the GS320 was on theC TPC-C web site for a week and then it was withdrawm. It wasn't very2% wonderfull because it didn't use OPS.l   So why did you do this ?  A Answer because you had a customer who had mandated a TPC-C resultT' on the GS320 before they would buy one.s  > Yes I agree customers should run their own benchmarks of their; own apps. The fact that many don't is down to time cost ando; inclination. If they have any issues with these three areas 9 then they tend to reach for the nearest available measuret and that is often TPC-C.    I > Even if they do not have a benchmark done, the Cust will typically have-F > some clause in their agreement that if the vendor does not meet some< > target performance goals, then that vendor is on the hook. >     = Of course they should but they often don't because they don'tt- actually know what they are going to measure..  @ No vendor will sign up to blanket performance guarantees however- keen they appear to be to do this publically..  > In one contract Sun lost to another vendor the vendor provided> performance guarantees which they very cleverly bounded not toB include anything that was I/O related, in fairness the performance= metrics provided by the customer were most sketchy in the I/OO area.N  B When the systems they put in didn't perform it turned out that the@ reasons for poor performance were I/O related, customer couldn't< claim a penny from the vendor and ended up forking out about> a million pounds more than they were expecting on their EMC's.  = Bottom line is that many customers don't have the informationb; required to allow vendors to provide performance guaranteesx in a sales situation.   ? Once you have won the deal and are specifiying the system thatst@ being deployed then you may have better data to work on in order to provide a guarantee.d  @ Of couse before that you may well have used a measure like TPC-C to choose your vendor.    G > And keep in mind that large database with large amounts of VLM memory < > and big SMP config's are a major effort to tune as well.   > G > You might want to spin the "SMP is better in all cases" scenario, but. > that is clearly incorrect. >     ; I am not suggesting that, only that there are more examplesi< of where SMP is usefull for scalability than using a cluster9 you know this I know this so why keep up the fiction thatp" the two are in any way comparable.    I > It depends on many things, but why restate stuff that has been rehashedn
 > many times?w >     B I could say the same about your point, you have made it repeatedly@ over the last couple of years, been shot don in flames each time so why bother ??   Regardsh Andrew Harrisoni   ------------------------------   Date: 2 May 2002 13:13:35 GMTf1 From: bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)s Subject: Re: Itanium troublest, Message-ID: <aare1v$1aiu$1@info.cs.uofs.edu>  ' In article <3CCF4B97.E423F00B@fsi.net>, 4  "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> writes: |> Nick Maclaren wrote:  |> > h  |> > and (b) the people with theG |> > attitude that using a computer is the user's problem started to bes? |> > the people running the show.  And this has never reversed.y |> sJ |> Well, not sure about that. If that were true, Mandrake, Red Hat and the@ |> others would not be dumping dollars into installers and otherJ |> "usability" software to wrap around Linus's work and the work of others |> (Gnu, etc.).i  ; I have been sitting here reading this with total amazement.d  9 Do people here actually know anything about the subject??r  9 Any fo the major Linux distributions and FreeBSD (I can't-8 speak for the other BSD's as I haven't usedc any of them8 lately.) are infinitely easier to install than VMS.  Any8 of them can be installed with no documentation at all to9 the point of having a totally functional system includingK7 most of the common utilities the user is likely to need4; for doing real work.  Even with a copy of the Release Notesg; in your hand it's tough to get the backup command right for 7 the first step of the VMS install.  FreeBSD even offers 9 menu driven install with three levels of knowledge on thea6 part of the installer.  It's so simple, we even have a7 course where the students do it in the second lab!!  InD$ the first, they build the hardware!!   bill   -- nJ Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   l   ------------------------------   Date: 2 May 2002 13:38:26 GMTw& From: peter@abbnm.com (Peter da Silva) Subject: Re: Itanium troublesp- Message-ID: <aarfgi$169@web.eng.baileynm.com>e  ' In article <3CD09682.FC73599C@fsi.net>,i0 David J. Dachtera <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote: > Peter da Silva wrote:y+ > > In article <3CCF49D3.D874B30B@fsi.net>,L4 > > David J. Dachtera <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote:M > > > No one wants to "enforce" anything on anyone. Don't read it if it's not  > > > there.  M > > "Reading books on usability should be a requirement for all programmers."g  J > > If it's a requirement you don't enforce it's not a requirement, is it?  - > Check your quoting. That's not what I said.w  I I know that's not what you said. That is however what the person you werek bitching at was objecting to.   5 > > > I took that to mean that Sander apparently sees I > > > neither the necessity nor importance of usability as having as much0K > > > weight as the other issues involved in the development of open-sourcee > > > software.   J And my point is that Sander's objection was to "Reading books on usabilityJ should be a requirement for all programmers." And that given the volunteerJ nature of much of this development your own response can be seen two ways.  L You may have intended to make a comment on quality, but in context it wasn't obvious.  H And your own response was still inappropriate, because usability isn't a
 "concession".i  O > > You can bandy it about all you want. The bottom line is this, talking about P > > what should be a requirement for a developer isn't going to get any software > > developed, :  J > You really need to get that "requirement" bit. They can choose to ignoreJ > advice indicating that certain actions on their part would help garner aF > larger audience - that's up to them. I'm still REQUIRING anything ofG > anyone - other than of myself, regarding what I will and won't pursue  > for my own needs..  K OK, let me rephrase this, since you seem to have a hangup on the word. "YouiM can bandy it about all you want. The bottom line is this, advice is cheap, if.D you have something to contribute, you know where the CVS tree is..."  @ > Well, "RTFM" has become the industry-standard joke these days.  I I must admit that a lot of people seem to be utterly incapable of dealingaF with manuals, but they also seem utterly helpless to take advantage ofG Microsoft's efforts even where Microsoft has done everything absolutely@ right.  I I do Windows support, among other things. Smallish company (at least thismB branch) and I get to wear many hats. Most of my users are softwareE developers, or managers who used to be software developers. And yet ayI week doesn't go by that I don't have to talk someone through some process K on program "B", and it's exactly the same as the equivalent process on someeH other program they're already familiar with... and in most cases becauseA that's the way Microsoft's usability guidelines say it should be.b  L People who won't RTFM don't seem to be able to benefit from *anything*. TheyK simply do everything by rote. The people who I had to explain "yes, you caneI save a program output to a file by doing 'program > file'" five times forhM five programs... and every time they were equally astonished that it was JUSTiJ LIKE THE LAST TIME... they seem to be the same people who keep coming backJ with the same kind of questions over and over again on Microsoft products.  E So, well, yes. I do believe that the people who benefit from improved G usability in Microsoft software are also going to benefit from improvedeK documentation. The people who figure stuff out, they will also happily RTFMt5 once they realise TFM has something worth Ring in it.    -- tO I've seen things you people can't imagine. Chimneysweeps on fire over the roofsnO of London. I've watched kite-strings glitter in the sun at Hyde Park Gate.  AllaL these things will be lost in time, like chalk-paintings in the rain.   `-_-'K Time for your nap.  | Peter da Silva | Har du kramat din varg, idag?    'U`t   ------------------------------   Date: 2 May 2002 14:10:35 -0000o4 From: Doc.Cypher <Use-Author-Address-Header@[127.1]> Subject: Re: Itanium troubles 6 Message-ID: <20020502141035.16478.qmail@gacracker.org>  A On 2 May 2002, bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) wrote:d( >In article <3CCF4B97.E423F00B@fsi.net>,5 > "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> writes:m >|> Nick Maclaren wrote: >|> > ! >|> > and (b) the people with thenH >|> > attitude that using a computer is the user's problem started to beA >|> > the people running the show.  And this has never reversed. . >|> K >|> Well, not sure about that. If that were true, Mandrake, Red Hat and thedA >|> others would not be dumping dollars into installers and otherpK >|> "usability" software to wrap around Linus's work and the work of othersu >|> (Gnu, etc.). >e< >I have been sitting here reading this with total amazement. >u: >Do people here actually know anything about the subject?? >i: >Any fo the major Linux distributions and FreeBSD (I can't9 >speak for the other BSD's as I haven't usedc any of them 4 >lately.) are infinitely easier to install than VMS.  I If it's just the installation, I find VMS extremely easy to install. JustoD boot from the install CD and pick a menu option, answer a few simple& questions and the install is complete.   >Any9 >of them can be installed with no documentation at all tof: >the point of having a totally functional system including8 >most of the common utilities the user is likely to need >for doing real work.r   Ah, qualifiers.n  J With VMS after the install you then have to deal with the issue of loadingF licenses, that is something that it is handy to have a few notes on to guide you through the process.  & >Even with a copy of the Release Notes< >in your hand it's tough to get the backup command right for# >the first step of the VMS install.,  D What backup command? Is this something specific to VAXen? I've neverK installed on VAX, nor have I had to do an install with media other than CD.eI If you're talking about an upgrade, that's different. But by the time you < get round to that you should have some experience of the OS.   >FreeBSD even offers: >menu driven install with three levels of knowledge on the7 >part of the installer.  It's so simple, we even have a 8 >course where the students do it in the second lab!!  In% >the first, they build the hardware!!-  @ Still looking to improve my 'nix skills, where do I sign up? :-)     Doc. -- r6 The bigger the humbug, the better people will like it.K ~ Phineas Taylor Barnum.                             https://vmsbox.cjb.netA   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 2 May 2002 10:44:53 -0400# From: "Dan Allen" <dallen@nist.gov>r Subject: RE: Itanium troubles,: Message-ID: <NEBBIALHDHJMJINPGMOAOEOFEIAA.dallen@nist.gov>  K 	Absolute garbage!  With few exceptions (mainly experienced Unix Sysadmins)oH 	my computer literate, college educated co-workers are unable to installJ 	Linux or any other Unix system on their own.  They don't have a clue whatI 	services they need/don't need, or how to properly configure what they do I 	need.  Without the GUI usability add-ons in Linux they couldn't even geteI 	the system up!  This is not an opinion - this is my real-life experience L 	providing support for these people. The only OS they even stand a chance ofM 	getting up on their own is Windows in a standalone workstation configurationa# 	with a single administrator logon.   n > -----Original Message-----: > From: Bill Gunshannon [mailto:bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu]& > Sent: Thursday, May 02, 2002 9:14 AM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Come > Subject: Re: Itanium troublesn >  > ) > In article <3CCF4B97.E423F00B@fsi.net>,s6 >  "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> writes: > |> Nick Maclaren wrote:a > |> >  " > |> > and (b) the people with theI > |> > attitude that using a computer is the user's problem started to be-A > |> > the people running the show.  And this has never reversed.- > |> mL > |> Well, not sure about that. If that were true, Mandrake, Red Hat and theB > |> others would not be dumping dollars into installers and otherL > |> "usability" software to wrap around Linus's work and the work of others > |> (Gnu, etc.).A > = > I have been sitting here reading this with total amazement.> > ; > Do people here actually know anything about the subject??i > ; > Any fo the major Linux distributions and FreeBSD (I can't : > speak for the other BSD's as I haven't usedc any of them: > lately.) are infinitely easier to install than VMS.  Any: > of them can be installed with no documentation at all to; > the point of having a totally functional system including=9 > most of the common utilities the user is likely to need = > for doing real work.  Even with a copy of the Release Notesn= > in your hand it's tough to get the backup command right fore9 > the first step of the VMS install.  FreeBSD even offersx; > menu driven install with three levels of knowledge on theh8 > part of the installer.  It's so simple, we even have a9 > course where the students do it in the second lab!!  Inr& > the first, they build the hardware!! >  > bill >  > -- sL > Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesF > bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. > University of Scranton   |C > Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   t >    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 02 May 2002 01:05:18 -0400i( From: David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> Subject: Re: license questionP, Message-ID: <3CD0C90E.1090702@tsoft-inc.com>   Robert Deininger wrote:s  J > In article <MZSz8.154549$nc.21286476@typhoon.tampabay.rr.com>, "John N." > <JNixon@cfl.rr.com> wrote: >  > N >>I have four Alpha departmental class machines.  One of them has an unlimitedK >>user license, but could get by with a 16 user license.  Two of the AlhpasnL >>have 32 user licenses.  One of them needs more licensed user seats. One of >>them Icould actuallyD >>get rid of.  One has a four user license, and will soon need more. >>N >>Can I move these licenses around as I see fit, or do I need to notify Compaq >>and/or pay any sort of fees. >> > C > You'll have to consult your specific license terms to be certain.s    % That is of course the correct answer.a    F > Generally speaking, alpha user licenses of recent vintage are prettyK > portable amoung machines that you own.  Just don't register and load more ! > units than you are entitled to.     N The n-user licenses have gone through at least 3 generations.  The latest (as L far as I'm aware) licenses, those with part numbers starting with I believe P 'MT3' are the ones that are portable.  I'm not really sure what that means, but Q I've taken it to mean that you can put the license on any VMS system, and at any  Q time remove it from that system and put it on another, Alpha or VAX.  Others may eF be of the opinion that you need to register each transfer with Compaq.  M Also, I was told by a licensing person at Compaq that if you have one of the cM earlier n-user licenses under a maintenance contract, that an upgrade to the aP MT3* comparable license could be had for the asking.  If you have one on a VAX, A do this and it's automatically eligible for transfer to an Alpha.     I > The unlimited license can probably only be used on 1 machine at a time,lK > but I never had one so I'm not certain.  (I'd guess that an unlimited PAKiE > is NO_SHARE, so that it can only be loaded on 1 node in a cluster.)n >   N Unlimited licenses have usually been tied to specific hardware, like the base  VMS license.   Dave   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 02 May 2002 11:23:44 +0100w From: paul.beaudoin@hsbc.com Subject: Memo:  SUBSCRIBElE Message-ID: <OFBCE9FC12.35132B20-ON80256BAD.00390CBA@systems.uk.hsbc>u   subscribe info-vax set info-vax nomailC      ' ** HSBC's website is at www.hsbc.com **o  D ********************************************************************B  This message and any attachments are confidential to the ordinaryB  user of the e-mail address to which it was addressed and may also>  be privileged. If you are not the addressee you may not copy,8  forward, disclose or use any part of the message or itsC  attachments and if you have received this message in error, please B  notify the sender immediately by return e-mail and delete it from
  your system.n  =  Internet communications cannot be guaranteed to be secure orcA  error-free as information could be intercepted, corrupted, lost, >  arrive late or contain viruses. The sender therefore does not?  accept liability for any errors or omissions in the context ofc?  this message which arise as a result of Internet transmission.r  eD  Any opinions contained in this message are those of the author and ?  are not given or endorsed by the HSBC Group company or office  =  through which this message is sent unless otherwise clearly eA  indicated in this message and the authority of the author to so o3  bind the HSBC entity referred to is duly verified.l  D ********************************************************************   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 02 May 2002 12:57:16 GMT * From: "Steve" <steve.hemond@cegeptr.qc.ca> Subject: New to VAXd6 Message-ID: <MIaA8.107$6f5.193200@carnaval.risq.qc.ca>  	 Hi there,e  G I'm very new to Vax systems and I was questionning about terminals. Cand> anyone explain me what's the differences between VT100, VT340,/ VT420...etc..etc... what makes them different ?   ; I can't find any "clear" document on the net about that ...n  
 Thanks a lot!a   Stevea   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 2 May 2002 09:14:43 -04000 From: "Syltrem" <syltremspammenot@videotron.com> Subject: Re: New to VAXe5 Message-ID: <xXaA8.10987$a04.49495@tor-nn1.netcom.ca>r  F Someone may have a better, more technical answer but I can offer this:5 Older VT`s have less functionality than newer models.c  6 For example, newer ones can have color, graphics, etc.= You can have a status bar on the 25th line of the VT299 + etco  L For most end users using most applications it may not make a big difference. --   SyltremaI http://pages.infinit.net/syltrem (OpenVMS related web site - en franais)p> To reply to myself directly, remove .spammenot from my address  E "Steve" <steve.hemond@cegeptr.qc.ca> a crit dans le message de news: + MIaA8.107$6f5.193200@carnaval.risq.qc.ca.... > Hi there,B > I > I'm very new to Vax systems and I was questionning about terminals. Canf@ > anyone explain me what's the differences between VT100, VT340,1 > VT420...etc..etc... what makes them different ?N > = > I can't find any "clear" document on the net about that ...> >t > Thanks a lot!a >m > Stevet >u >' >r   ------------------------------  + Date: Thu, 02 May 2002 16:07:25 +0100 (MET)s9 From: Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>, Subject: Re: New to VAXe; Message-ID: <01KH9AYAFQH68Y7NGP@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>o  I > I'm very new to Vax systems and I was questionning about terminals. Cane@ > anyone explain me what's the differences between VT100, VT340,1 > VT420...etc..etc... what makes them different ?a > = > I can't find any "clear" document on the net about that ...s   http://www.vt100.net/p   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 2 May 2002 10:46:45 -0400  From: "Dave" <nospam@nospam.com> Subject: Re: New to VAXa/ Message-ID: <ud2kb0ekphme1d@corp.supernews.com>f  C http://www.vt100.net/ doesn't work.  Use http://vt100.net/ instead.i   -- Dave "stirkus ersu venete"o    F "Phillip Helbig" <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> wrote in message5 news:01KH9AYAFQH68Y7NGP@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com... K : > I'm very new to Vax systems and I was questionning about terminals. CaneB : > anyone explain me what's the differences between VT100, VT340,3 : > VT420...etc..etc... what makes them different ?t : >c? : > I can't find any "clear" document on the net about that ...- :  : http://www.vt100.net/|   ------------------------------  + Date: Thu, 02 May 2002 16:52:19 +0100 (MET) 9 From: Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>n Subject: Re: New to VAXn; Message-ID: <01KH9CIJUGP28Y7NGP@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>-  E > http://www.vt100.net/ doesn't work.  Use http://vt100.net/ instead.o  
 I just tried )      http://www.vt100.net/ e      http://vt100.net/ 6      http://www.vt100.org/ n      http://vt100.org/  
 All work.    ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 2 May 2002 10:58:47 -0400  From: "Dave" <nospam@nospam.com> Subject: Re: New to VAX / Message-ID: <ud2l1ct942hv99@corp.supernews.com>   L Ignore that.  http://www.vt100.net/ is working (for me) now.  I wonder if it was a DNS server hiccup.   -- Dave "stirkus ersu venete"m    + "Dave" <nospam@nospam.com> wrote in messager) news:ud2kb0ekphme1d@corp.supernews.com...eE : http://www.vt100.net/ doesn't work.  Use http://vt100.net/ instead.t :' : -- : Dave : "stirkus ersu venete"a :h :eH : "Phillip Helbig" <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> wrote in message7 : news:01KH9AYAFQH68Y7NGP@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com...tI : : > I'm very new to Vax systems and I was questionning about terminals.  CansD : : > anyone explain me what's the differences between VT100, VT340,5 : : > VT420...etc..etc... what makes them different ?k : : >aA : : > I can't find any "clear" document on the net about that ...n : :v : : http://www.vt100.net/  :s :v   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 02 May 2002 17:17:44 +0100o( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1> Subject: Re: New to VAXn) Message-ID: <3CD166A8.9F22200A@127.0.0.1>,   Steve wrote:  I > I'm very new to Vax systems and I was questionning about terminals. Cant@ > anyone explain me what's the differences between VT100, VT340,1 > VT420...etc..etc... what makes them different ?   F In the beginning was the teletype. This did 10 cps on a roll of paper.  E Next was the VT05, this was a 12 line CRT display that was so long ittA hung off the edge of desks and you were in fear of it falling andi crushing your legs.   D The VT52 came later and had much better screen cursor handling and aB keypad with gold and red and blue keys. And it was nice. 24 lines.  H The VT100 started to support some vague ANSI standards and DEC protocolsG and had interchangeable options to allow 132 as well as 80 columns, theuA VT125 was colour graphic I think, and some had add on techtronics % graphics. It had a separate keyboard.   G The VT220 was much smaller and neater, and moved to using more standardaF component, but CMOS chips on the interface? bad move. But it was nice,B green ones were the favourite, but we'd put up with white or amberG screens and it did everything the VT100 did and more. The VT241 was thea  huge colour graphics equivalent.  G Then came the VT320, flatter and squarer than the VT220, same keyboard.r Didn't see many variants.e  G Then came the VT420 multisession via LAT terminal servers or host basedt SSU. Local copy and paste.  E Finally the VT510 (ugh) and the VT520, four sessions and really cool.t/ Each one upwardly supports the previous models.i   I bet I missed some out.  E The nice thing is that the VMS operating system (on Alpha or VAX) canoC deal with and recognize (in most cases) each of these terminals andiA display things correctly, particularly if an application uses SMGo routines. Total flexibility.  F The other nice thing about terminal over using PC host access is there# is less damage a user can cause :-)h -- a( Regards, Nic Clews CSC Computer Sciences nclews at csc dot como   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 02 May 2002 11:13:41 -0600i( From: emanuel stiebler <emu@ecubics.com> Subject: Re: New to VAXo+ Message-ID: <3CD173C5.E978ABF8@ecubics.com>M   Nic Clews wrote: >l > [few VTxxx descriptions ...] e > I bet I missed some out.  % Yes. vt284, vt340, vt340+, vt525, ...i   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 2 May 2002 16:13:39 +0000  From: Steve.Spires@yellgroup.com  Subject: Off Topic - Humo(u)r...: Message-ID: <OF6E3A24BC.E80F216E-ON00256BAD.0059111C@btyp>  D When Mark Shuttleworth (very rich space tourist) returns from space,, everybody dress up in Ape Suits. Pass it on.   ;^Du   Steve Se      F ______________________________________________________________________     [Information] -- PostMaster:D This transmission is intended solely for the addressee(s) and may beG confidential. If you are not the named addressee, or if the message hascG been addressed to you in error, you must not read, disclose, reproduce,o$ distribute or use this transmission.  H Delivery of this message to any person other than the named addressee isG not intended in any way to waive confidentiality.  If you have receivedeK this transmission in error please contact the sender or delete the message.r  
 Thank you.  D Yell Limited, Queens Walk, Oxford Road, Reading, Berkshire, RG1 7PT.; Registered in England and Wales, registered number 4205228.u  I Yellow Pages Sales Limited, Queens Walk, Oxford Road, Reading, Berkshire,eD RG1 7PT. Registered in England and Wales, registered number 1403041.   ------------------------------   Date: 2 May 2002 07:57:51 -0700u= From: ondrej.prochazka@deutsche-boerse.com (Ondrej Prochazka)i Subject: OSU HTTP and FastCGI?< Message-ID: <4597c844.0205020657.27bdcc8@posting.google.com>   Hi,   G Does anybody know if the current version of OSU HTTP server for OpenVMS E supports the OpenMarket FastCGI interface? If so, can one use the CGIs9 and CGI::Fast modules provided with the VMS port of Perl?    Many thanks, Ondrej   ------------------------------   Date: 2 May 2002 01:16 CDT' From: carl@gerg.tamu.edu (Carl Perkins)iB Subject: Re: Reducing size of incremental backup - will this work?, Message-ID: <2MAY200201160789@gerg.tamu.edu>  ' hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam writes...io }In article <343f30ae.0205011545.1a27713b@posting.google.com>, SPAMSINK2001@YAHOO.COM (Alan E. Feldman) writes:h( }:This is fine. But I would change it to }:E }:    $ BACKUP/RECORD DSA0:[FOO]BAR.DIR NL:A.B/SAVE_SET/NOCRC/GROUP=0n6 }:    $ BACKUP/VERIFY DSA0:[000000...]/SINCE=BACKUP  -" }:          TAPEDRIVE:BLAHBLAH.BCK }: } H }  /NOCRC and /GROUP=0 mean you really trust your tape hardware to work. } M }   Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.comb  C What are the odds of the NL device failing in any harmfull way, buta the system staying up?  E I'd guess that this particular "tape device" is pretty trustworthy toh do what you expect of it.t   --- Carl   ------------------------------   Date: 2 May 2002 05:26:46 -0700t# From: tadamsmar@aol.com (Tom Adams) B Subject: Re: Reducing size of incremental backup - will this work?= Message-ID: <793af3df.0205020426.5a81857c@posting.google.com>g  s hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) wrote in message news:<fm0A8.31$n_1.460867@cacnews.cac.cpqcorp.net>....p > In article <343f30ae.0205011545.1a27713b@posting.google.com>, SPAMSINK2001@YAHOO.COM (Alan E. Feldman) writes:k > :tadamsmar@aol.com (Tom Adams) wrote in message news:<793af3df.0204300858.7baf1b61@posting.google.com>...aH > :> I want to try to do backup/record on a directory to keep the entire8 > :> contents from being backuped.  Something like this: > :>  + > :> !Backup to force record of backup date 0 > :> $BACKUP/RECORD  DSA0:[FOO]BAR.DIR DUMMY.TMP > :> $DELETE DUMMY.TMP.** > :> !Proceed with real incremental backup= > :> $BACKUP/SINCE=BACKUP DSA0{000000...]  TAPEDRIVE:BLAHBLAHt > C >   You can set the dates -- including the BACKUP date -- using the B >   Freeware DFU tool.  It's rather easier than the proposed, and   >   a much more direct solution. > G > :> This directory will never be renamed.  It is a large direcory withsI > :> some file creates and deletes happening in it every day, but only a mC > :> small portion of the files in it are changed on a daily basis.  > :> oK > :> Is there any problem with this?  I am not sure of all the reasons thatcH > :> VMS was revised in the first place to backup all the contents of a 8 > :> directory when the directory's modify date changed. > B >   BACKUP/RECORD is intended to be used with /IMAGE, and then the@ >   backups are run incremental (and restored with /INCREMENTAL)C >   to rebuild the disk.  If you are interested in this, you reallyuC >   will want to review the examples of performing full BACKUP and lF >   subsequent incremental operations, as listed in the BACKUP manual. > : ) > :This is fine. But I would change it to  > :sF > :    $ BACKUP/RECORD DSA0:[FOO]BAR.DIR NL:A.B/SAVE_SET/NOCRC/GROUP=07 > :    $ BACKUP/VERIFY DSA0:[000000...]/SINCE=BACKUP  -h# > :          TAPEDRIVE:BLAHBLAH.BCKo > :m > I >   /NOCRC and /GROUP=0 mean you really trust your tape hardware to work.I > F >   Given you have shadowsets, I'd look seriously at quescing the disk6 >   activity briefly, and then splitting off a volume. > F > :This way you'll get the old incremental behavior for that directory2 > :but the new behavior for all other directories. > G >   /NOINCREMENTAL (and the current BACKUP ECO kit) is a better way to n1 >   get the old behaviour, if you really want it.h > D But, I am not sure I want the old behaviour in general.  I just haveA this one large directory that is part of an automated applicationhB where I know that the directory name will never get modified.  The? directory is a historical database for a real time application. B Only today's files grow and yesterday's files get compressed.  AllC other files never change till they get purged after a month or two.    ------------------------------   Date: 2 May 2002 06:29:27 -0700t. From: SPAMSINK2001@YAHOO.COM (Alan E. Feldman)B Subject: Re: Reducing size of incremental backup - will this work?= Message-ID: <343f30ae.0205020529.7f3c784e@posting.google.com>a  s hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) wrote in message news:<fm0A8.31$n_1.460867@cacnews.cac.cpqcorp.net>...op > In article <343f30ae.0205011545.1a27713b@posting.google.com>, SPAMSINK2001@YAHOO.COM (Alan E. Feldman) writes:k > :tadamsmar@aol.com (Tom Adams) wrote in message news:<793af3df.0204300858.7baf1b61@posting.google.com>...oH > :> I want to try to do backup/record on a directory to keep the entire8 > :> contents from being backuped.  Something like this: > :> m+ > :> !Backup to force record of backup dateu0 > :> $BACKUP/RECORD  DSA0:[FOO]BAR.DIR DUMMY.TMP > :> $DELETE DUMMY.TMP.** > :> !Proceed with real incremental backup= > :> $BACKUP/SINCE=BACKUP DSA0{000000...]  TAPEDRIVE:BLAHBLAHc > C >   You can set the dates -- including the BACKUP date -- using the B >   Freeware DFU tool.  It's rather easier than the proposed, and   >   a much more direct solution.    D Even better! But if you're in a hurry and for some reason don't have' DFU handy, the BACKUP method is useful.h   [quoted material snipped]h  F > :This way you'll get the old incremental behavior for that directory2 > :but the new behavior for all other directories. > G >   /NOINCREMENTAL (and the current BACKUP ECO kit) is a better way to u1 >   get the old behaviour, if you really want it.n    > I hereby nominate /NOINCREMENTAL for the most poorly named VMS qualifier ever.t     Disclaimer: JMHO Alan E. Feldman " afeldman atski gfigroup dotski com   ------------------------------   Date: 2 May 2002 06:29:28 -0700n. From: SPAMSINK2001@YAHOO.COM (Alan E. Feldman)B Subject: Re: Reducing size of incremental backup - will this work?< Message-ID: <343f30ae.0205020529.c11fcf4@posting.google.com>  s hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) wrote in message news:<fm0A8.31$n_1.460867@cacnews.cac.cpqcorp.net>...sp > In article <343f30ae.0205011545.1a27713b@posting.google.com>, SPAMSINK2001@YAHOO.COM (Alan E. Feldman) writes:k > :tadamsmar@aol.com (Tom Adams) wrote in message news:<793af3df.0204300858.7baf1b61@posting.google.com>...eH > :> I want to try to do backup/record on a directory to keep the entire8 > :> contents from being backuped.  Something like this: > :> a+ > :> !Backup to force record of backup dates0 > :> $BACKUP/RECORD  DSA0:[FOO]BAR.DIR DUMMY.TMP > :> $DELETE DUMMY.TMP.** > :> !Proceed with real incremental backup= > :> $BACKUP/SINCE=BACKUP DSA0{000000...]  TAPEDRIVE:BLAHBLAHw > C >   You can set the dates -- including the BACKUP date -- using the*B >   Freeware DFU tool.  It's rather easier than the proposed, and   >   a much more direct solution.    D Even better! But if you're in a hurry and for some reason don't have' DFU handy, the BACKUP method is useful.r   [quoted material snipped]t  F > :This way you'll get the old incremental behavior for that directory2 > :but the new behavior for all other directories. > G >   /NOINCREMENTAL (and the current BACKUP ECO kit) is a better way to s1 >   get the old behaviour, if you really want it.o    > I hereby nominate /NOINCREMENTAL for the most poorly named VMS qualifier ever.I     Disclaimer: JMHO Alan E. Feldman " afeldman atski gfigroup dotski com   ------------------------------  + Date: Thu, 02 May 2002 16:28:37 +0100 (MET)e9 From: Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>,B Subject: Re: Reducing size of incremental backup - will this work?; Message-ID: <01KH9BO7UTG08Y7NGP@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>n  @ > I hereby nominate /NOINCREMENTAL for the most poorly named VMS > qualifier ever.e  H Especially since, in contrast to everything else in VMS, /NOINCREMENTAL $ is not the negation of /INCREMENTAL.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 02 May 2002 15:44:07 +0100 - From: Roy Omond <Roy.Omond@BlueBubble.UK.Com>nB Subject: Re: Reducing size of incremental backup - will this work?1 Message-ID: <3CD150B7.A0CA1D87@BlueBubble.UK.Com>    Phillip Helbig wrote:   B > > I hereby nominate /NOINCREMENTAL for the most poorly named VMS > > qualifier ever.  >2I > Especially since, in contrast to everything else in VMS, /NOINCREMENTAL & > is not the negation of /INCREMENTAL.   Sorry, couldn't resist ...  , just like /NOTIFY is the negation of /TIFY ?   :-)r   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 02 May 2002 10:49:09 -0400A& From: Ken Robinson <kenrbnsn1@rcn.com>B Subject: Re: Reducing size of incremental backup - will this work?< Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020502104731.0396e008@pop.rcn.com>  , At 03:44 PM 5/2/2002 +0100, Roy Omond wrote:   >Sorry, couldn't resist ...L >B- >just like /NOTIFY is the negation of /TIFY ?l >t >:-)  L VMS Magic Session many DECUS Symposia ago ... I believe the speaker was Tom 
 Speake... :-)t   Ken Robinson   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 2 May 2002 10:56:40 -0400  From: norm.raphael@jamesbury.comB Subject: Re: Reducing size of incremental backup - will this work?4 Message-ID: <C2256BAD.005189D8.00@jklh22.valmet.com>  6 You forgot submit /NOTIFY , not the negation of /TIFY.        < HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com on 05/02/2002 11:28:37 AM  4 Please respond to HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com   To:   Info-VAX@mvb.saic.comm cc: C Subject:  Re: Reducing size of incremental backup - will this work?m      @ > I hereby nominate /NOINCREMENTAL for the most poorly named VMS > qualifier ever.p  G Especially since, in contrast to everything else in VMS, /NOINCREMENTALd$ is not the negation of /INCREMENTAL.   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 2 May 2002 11:32:19 -0400  From: norm.raphael@jamesbury.comB Subject: Re: Reducing size of incremental backup - will this work?4 Message-ID: <C2256BAD.005462AA.00@jklh22.valmet.com>  ; The same Tom Speake is still at it and still worth hearing:M  0 For detailed information and secure online visit= http://www.encompassus.org/events/seminars/philadelphia.html..  H Tom Speake will lead the Business Continuity Seminar on June 21.  Tom isE Director of Business Continuity Services for High Performance Systems H Solutions, a company that specializes in the design and sale of disasterG tolerant storage solutions.  He brings nearly 28 years experience as anc? enterprise systems professional and instructor to this program.s  0 For detailed biographies on Steve and Tom, visit9 http://www.encompassus.org/events/seminars/speakers.html.           + kenrbnsn1@rcn.com on 05/02/2002 10:49:09 AMs  # Please respond to kenrbnsn1@rcn.com    To:   Info-VAX@mvb.saic.comw cc:hC Subject:  Re: Reducing size of incremental backup - will this work?       , At 03:44 PM 5/2/2002 +0100, Roy Omond wrote:   >Sorry, couldn't resist ...  >h- >just like /NOTIFY is the negation of /TIFY ?u >e >:-)  K VMS Magic Session many DECUS Symposia ago ... I believe the speaker was Tomf
 Speake... :-)l   Ken Robinson   ------------------------------   Date: 2 May 2002 10:48:56 -0700i. From: SPAMSINK2001@YAHOO.COM (Alan E. Feldman)B Subject: Re: Reducing size of incremental backup - will this work?= Message-ID: <343f30ae.0205020948.1a0e17fc@posting.google.com>   h tadamsmar@aol.com (Tom Adams) wrote in message news:<793af3df.0205020426.5a81857c@posting.google.com>...u > hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) wrote in message news:<fm0A8.31$n_1.460867@cacnews.cac.cpqcorp.net>...lr > > In article <343f30ae.0205011545.1a27713b@posting.google.com>, SPAMSINK2001@YAHOO.COM (Alan E. Feldman) writes:m > > :tadamsmar@aol.com (Tom Adams) wrote in message news:<793af3df.0204300858.7baf1b61@posting.google.com>... J > > :> I want to try to do backup/record on a directory to keep the entire: > > :> contents from being backuped.  Something like this: > > :> c- > > :> !Backup to force record of backup date 2 > > :> $BACKUP/RECORD  DSA0:[FOO]BAR.DIR DUMMY.TMP > > :> $DELETE DUMMY.TMP.*, > > :> !Proceed with real incremental backup? > > :> $BACKUP/SINCE=BACKUP DSA0{000000...]  TAPEDRIVE:BLAHBLAHs > > E > >   You can set the dates -- including the BACKUP date -- using the D > >   Freeware DFU tool.  It's rather easier than the proposed, and " > >   a much more direct solution. > > I > > :> This directory will never be renamed.  It is a large direcory with K > > :> some file creates and deletes happening in it every day, but only a lE > > :> small portion of the files in it are changed on a daily basis.0 > > :> wM > > :> Is there any problem with this?  I am not sure of all the reasons thatlJ > > :> VMS was revised in the first place to backup all the contents of a : > > :> directory when the directory's modify date changed. > > D > >   BACKUP/RECORD is intended to be used with /IMAGE, and then theB > >   backups are run incremental (and restored with /INCREMENTAL)E > >   to rebuild the disk.  If you are interested in this, you reallyuE > >   will want to review the examples of performing full BACKUP and TH > >   subsequent incremental operations, as listed in the BACKUP manual. > > :0+ > > :This is fine. But I would change it toa > > :hH > > :    $ BACKUP/RECORD DSA0:[FOO]BAR.DIR NL:A.B/SAVE_SET/NOCRC/GROUP=09 > > :    $ BACKUP/VERIFY DSA0:[000000...]/SINCE=BACKUP  -r% > > :          TAPEDRIVE:BLAHBLAH.BCKt > > :' > > K > >   /NOCRC and /GROUP=0 mean you really trust your tape hardware to work.l > > H > >   Given you have shadowsets, I'd look seriously at quescing the disk8 > >   activity briefly, and then splitting off a volume. > > H > > :This way you'll get the old incremental behavior for that directory4 > > :but the new behavior for all other directories. > > I > >   /NOINCREMENTAL (and the current BACKUP ECO kit) is a better way to V3 > >   get the old behaviour, if you really want it.e > > F > But, I am not sure I want the old behaviour in general.  I just haveC > this one large directory that is part of an automated applicationnD > where I know that the directory name will never get modified.  TheA > directory is a historical database for a real time application..D > Only today's files grow and yesterday's files get compressed.  AllE > other files never change till they get purged after a month or two.4  ? Then use either DFU or the BACKUP method above to mark only theC directory of interest.   Disclaimer: JMHO Alan E. Feldman)" afeldman atski gfigroup dotski com   ------------------------------   Date: 2 May 2002 07:47:00 -0500c From: briggs@encompasserve.org< Subject: Re: RMS equiv of F$FILE_ATTR( filename, "EOF" ) ???3 Message-ID: <tVIbAMaB4BKv@eisner.encompasserve.org>k  m In article <pyYz8.16631$q8.2416409@bin3.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>, "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> writes:r > ; > "Chris Olive" <colive@technologease.com> wrote in messageI: > news:200205011608.AA1605959898@mail.technologease.com...H >> Me again.  Needing ticklers on stuff I know I used to know inside and > out...  Anyway...  >>: >> What is the RMS structure equivalent to the DCL lexicalN > $FILE_ATTR( filename, "EOF" ) operation on a file (returns the actual blocksG > in use by a file).  I found the $FAB structure FAB$L_ALQ field, whichdK > returns the allocation quantity, but I do recall that you can have blocksdH > allocated to a file but still have nothing in the file.  So what's theG > F$FILE "EOF" equiv in RMS?  I looked through all the $FAB and $XABxxxa/ > blocks/fields, but nothing is ringing a bell.r > J > Well, in at least one sense the ALQ value really is the actual amount ofI > space in use by a file, even if there's nothing yet in it.  But I thinkaL > you'll find what you want in two fields of the File Header CharacteristicsI > XAB (highest-addressed valid byte in the file, plus 1 - though it won'tp9 > account for any 'sparseness' if VMS now supports that).n  F Yep.  it's in the XABFHC.  The two relevant fields are FFB (first free" byte) and EBK (end-of-file block).  F Note that FFB = 0 is the moral equivalent of FFB = 256.  It means that. all bytes in the end-of-file block are in use.   	John Briggs   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 02 May 2002 16:00:10 +0100e4 From: John Laird <john@laird-towers.freeserve.co.uk>< Subject: Re: RMS equiv of F$FILE_ATTR( filename, "EOF" ) ???8 Message-ID: <o0l2du41rtinn00i7dd7k62v4tl308om5s@4ax.com>  = On 2 May 2002 07:47:00 -0500, briggs@encompasserve.org wrote:T  G >Yep.  it's in the XABFHC.  The two relevant fields are FFB (first free"# >byte) and EBK (end-of-file block).  >nG >Note that FFB = 0 is the moral equivalent of FFB = 256.  It means thath/ >all bytes in the end-of-file block are in use.l  L I think you mean FFB=512, implying the end-of-file block is fully used.  FFB6 of 0 implies the end-of-file block is fully UNused :-)     	Johne   ------------------------------   Date: 2 May 2002 11:33:19 -0500i From: briggs@encompasserve.org< Subject: Re: RMS equiv of F$FILE_ATTR( filename, "EOF" ) ???3 Message-ID: <0p0SpPfKNxSG@eisner.encompasserve.org>   o In article <o0l2du41rtinn00i7dd7k62v4tl308om5s@4ax.com>, John Laird <john@laird-towers.freeserve.co.uk> writes:n? > On 2 May 2002 07:47:00 -0500, briggs@encompasserve.org wrote:  > H >>Yep.  it's in the XABFHC.  The two relevant fields are FFB (first free$ >>byte) and EBK (end-of-file block). >>H >>Note that FFB = 0 is the moral equivalent of FFB = 256.  It means that0 >>all bytes in the end-of-file block are in use. > N > I think you mean FFB=512, implying the end-of-file block is fully used.  FFB8 > of 0 implies the end-of-file block is fully UNused :-)   *doh*.  Of course I meant 512.  5 An FFB of 0 implies that the EOF block is fully USED. 7 An FFB of 0 implies that the EBK block is fully UNUSED.   J The trick is that in the case of FFB = 0, F$FILE_ATTRIBUTES reports an EOF@ that is one block earlier than the EBK that you get from the XAB (or from $ DUMP /HEADER)  < F$FILE_ATTRIBUTES reports the block before the EOF boundary.5 And the XAB reports the block after the EOF boundary.m  ? I always have trouble remembering the details of this behavior..< Instead I just remember that there is an idiosyncracy around the FFB=0 case.n   	John Briggs   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 02 May 2002 01:12:05 -0400,( From: David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>0 Subject: Re: SKC Morphs Again... We're Now SKHPC, Message-ID: <3CD0CAA5.1010202@tsoft-inc.com>  Q Hey Bill, do you do anything besides watch for Rob's posts?  I never get to jump s
 on him first.e   Bill Todd wrote:  : > "Rob Young" <young_r@encompasserve.org> wrote in message  B >>Don't count on it.  It may take a few billion more but they will@ >>be at or near the top.  Their boxes will cost a lot less, that >>really is a key.  G Just how many billions can they blow, and still produce a low cost CPU?m   Dave   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 02 May 2002 07:13:33 GMTo* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>0 Subject: Re: SKC Morphs Again... We're Now SKHPC@ Message-ID: <xG5A8.38273$Lj.2759422@bin4.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>  5 "David Froble" <davef@tsoft-inc.com> wrote in messageg& news:3CD0CAA5.1010202@tsoft-inc.com...J > Hey Bill, do you do anything besides watch for Rob's posts?  I never get to jumpd > on him first.d  J Actually, it's Rob's posts that seem to jump out at me, and responses haveK become almost automatic since his material doesn't change much.  Of course,-8 that can give my responses a certain sameness as well...  L Just to break the monotony, I'm thinking of making up a Letterman-style 'topI ten' list of reasons why we're all still breathlessly awaiting the public @ debut of Itanic 2.  At this rate, EV7 and Hammer may not only beH embarrassingly faster, but embarrassingly faster to market as well.  AndL (while on the subject of Itanic 2's wondrous performance if and when), I wasJ surprised to notice recently that USIII has made it up to 610 in SPECint2KD performance:  wouldn't it be amusing if after all the "Just wait forI McKinley!" hype over the past year Itanic *still* turned out to be at the  back of the pack?    - bill   ------------------------------  * Date: Thu, 2 May 2002 09:56:24 +0000 (UTC) From: david20@alpha1.mdx.ac.uk0 Subject: Re: SKC Morphs Again... We're Now SKHPC+ Message-ID: <aar2g8$97n$1@aquila.mdx.ac.uk>a  a In article <evznA+pScZM6@eisner.encompasserve.org>, young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) writes:-M >In article <aap647$k1k$1@aquila.mdx.ac.uk>, david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk writes:ar >> In article <L6Tz8.60193$%s3.23734634@typhoon.ne.ipsvc.net>, "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com> writes:L >> I doubt they'll be  "Numero Uno in the High Performance Computing arena" K >> if they persist in their plans to force all their customers onto Itanic.h >> k >tB >	Don't count on it.  It may take a few billion more but they will@ >	be at or near the top.  Their boxes will cost a lot less, that >	really is a key. >o  O You keep saying this but I can't see any reason why this will ever be the case.gI Hammer and (Intel's answer to Hammer) Yamhill are set to rule the desktopiI and at least the small server market. Itanic will be relegated to a niche.I product. Intel won't be able to cross-subsidy Itanic from Yamhill profitss& because of price pressure from Hammer.   >2= >	One other thing not to be overlooked... HP will be building F >	servers for 4 or 5 major OSes.  HP/UX, Tru64, OpenVMS, NSK, Windows,B >	the engineering gathered/saved across the board (no more MIPS , I >	no more Alpha) will allow the marshalling of a good bit of engineering n	 >	talent.  >s  M Except I would expect that very few customers will actually want to move fromyJ their current architectures to Itanic unless they can see a benefit or areF forced. The only possible benefits were improved performance and beingN "Industry Standard". It is now clear and will quickly become clear to the mostF myopic of senior managers that Itanic does not provide either of theseM benefits. If you try and force customers into doing a painful migration whichrM provides them no benefit then most will probably decide that the small bit ofgO extra pain to port to IBM or SUN will provide better benefits in the long term.   M I hope that HP is now looking at porting all it's OSs to HAMMER/YAMHILL sincerG that is the only way it could possibly obtain the savings you posit for  Itanium.  
 David Webb VMS and Unix team leader CCSS Middlesex University   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 02 May 2002 07:02:38 -0400s- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>-0 Subject: Re: SKC Morphs Again... We're Now SKHPC, Message-ID: <3CD11CA7.4CA361BC@videotron.ca>   david20@alpha1.mdx.ac.uk wrote:7K > and at least the small server market. Itanic will be relegated to a niche K > product. Intel won't be able to cross-subsidy Itanic from Yamhill profits ( > because of price pressure from Hammer.  N Intel has been able to use the slim profits it makes on the 8086s to subsidizeF the decade long development of IA64.  There is no reason that it can'tM continue to do that. In fact, Intel's financials are probably structures in avV long term ability to subsidize IA64's development without Wall Street really noticing.  O > Except I would expect that very few customers will actually want to move fromeL > their current architectures to Itanic unless they can see a benefit or are	 > forced.t  I While IA64 is definitely a downgrade for Alpha users, what about those onrE PA-Risc and MIPS (Tandem) Will that chip not provide an improvement ?e  I Remember that all that is left on Alpha is VMS whose future has yet to benJ announced. Tru64 remains on Alpha anyways, so no migration will occur fromT Alpha to IA64 , it is more likely to happen from Alpha to Sparc for those customers.    O > I hope that HP is now looking at porting all it's OSs to HAMMER/YAMHILL sincebI > that is the only way it could possibly obtain the savings you posit forr
 > Itanium.  H Carly has made big time commitments to IA64, including forcing Compaq toN prematurely murder Alpha. I do not think that she will back down, and she will/ push ahead full speed. Don't underestimate her.o  I Even with HP only using IA64, IA64 will have higher sales than Alpha. And.M Alpha survived for over a decade. Grated Alpha had the technology to be fast,rP whereas Intel still has to find a way to impress folks with IA643's performance.   ------------------------------   Date: 2 May 2002 13:08:42 GMTB& From: peter@abbnm.com (Peter da Silva)0 Subject: Re: SKC Morphs Again... We're Now SKHPC- Message-ID: <aardoq$s02@web.eng.baileynm.com>   G Possibly it's time to abandon the "Shannon Knows Foo" naming scheme, or 6 make it "Shannon Doesn't Know What To Call This Site"?   -- tO I've seen things you people can't imagine. Chimneysweeps on fire over the roofs-O of London. I've watched kite-strings glitter in the sun at Hyde Park Gate.  AllnL these things will be lost in time, like chalk-paintings in the rain.   `-_-'K Time for your nap.  | Peter da Silva | Har du kramat din varg, idag?    'U`P   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 02 May 2002 12:58:23 GMTj1 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com>:0 Subject: Re: SKC Morphs Again... We're Now SKHPC; Message-ID: <PJaA8.62593$%s3.24481092@typhoon.ne.ipsvc.net>s  4 "Ben Myers" <ben_myers@charter.net> wrote in message* news:3cd0937b.38291605@news.charter.net...G > "Shannon knows best"?  Reminds me of a TV show of days gone by... Benw Myerse >g  L If I had starred in an IT-centric teevee show called Shannon Knows Best, DTNK (Digital Teevee Network) *NEVER* would have run the insipid sitcom known as/ "My Three OSes."   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 2 May 2002 10:20:25 -0400* From: WILLIAM WEBB <WWEBB1@email.usps.gov>0 Subject: RE: SKC Morphs Again... We're Now SKHPC- Message-ID: <0033000062407815000002L052*@MHS>s    =0AIs that pronounced "skip-sy?"   WWWebb   -----Original Message-----/ From: Info-VAX-Request@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNETe$ Sent: Thursday, May 02, 2002 9:38 AMB To: Webb, William W Raleigh, NC; Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNET0 Subject: RE: SKC Morphs Again... We're Now SKHPC    4 "Ben Myers" <ben_myers@charter.net> wrote in message* news:3cd0937b.38291605@news.charter.net...H > "Shannon knows best"?  Reminds me of a TV show of days gone by... Ben=   Myersr >i  H If I had starred in an IT-centric teevee show called Shannon Knows Best= , DTN.H (Digital Teevee Network) *NEVER* would have run the insipid sitcom know= n as "My Three OSes."=i   ------------------------------  + Date: Thu, 02 May 2002 16:32:06 +0100 (MET) 9 From: Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>o0 Subject: Re: SKC Morphs Again... We're Now SKHPC; Message-ID: <01KH9BQVFUS68Y7NGP@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>   ' > > SKC Morphs Again... We're Now SKHPCo   > Is that pronounced "skip-sy?"e  % Shannon Knows Hewlett-Packard Compaq?t  ) Shannon Knows High-Performance Computing?0   Shannon Knows His PCs?  ( Shannon Knows He is Politically Correct?   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 02 May 2002 14:41:37 GMT ' From: ben_myers@charter.net (Ben Myers)/0 Subject: Re: SKC Morphs Again... We're Now SKHPC/ Message-ID: <3cd14eee.7021958@news.charter.net>n  L Well, whatever you call the newsletter, it should prove to be an interestingI chronicle of the on-going soap opera of one set of related mergers in the-M computer industry.  I lived thru one failed merger on a vastly smaller scale:(P Honeywell, GE and Groupe Bull.  What always seems to be missing in a merger is aN clear vision and strategic direction, because executives are too busy fightingN for their own corporate lives to think clearly.  The blood and carnage of HPaqJ employees will be considerable once the wheels of this merger get turning.  
 ... Ben Myers1  M On Wed, 01 May 2002 14:39:39 GMT, "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com>7 wrote:  J >Another year, another name change. We at Shannon Knows DEC, Shannon KnowsH >Distributed Enterprise Computing, Shannon Knows Compaq, and now ShannonK >Knows HPC are getting used to the good old name game. And we hope that youeH >Constant Readers will take the latest name change in stride. Here's theM >deal: Shannon Knows Compaq has withstood the rigors of two name changes plusAF >the economic angst of the thermonuclear winter incited by a wholesaleI >dot-com bombing. Acting on the news yesterday that the Delaware Chancery0L >Court has given Hewlett-Packard's acquisition of Compaq a go-ahead, SKC hasM >changed its name to Shannon Knows High Performance Computing. HP, of course,t@ >can be construed as High Performance or Hewlett-Packard, which,G >post-acquisition, will be Numero Uno in the High Performance Computing J >arena. In the interest of brevity-plus a desire to coin a new five-letterI >acronym-we'll now operate under the SKHPC name. Extended "dance version" M >five-letter acronym aside, we'll continue to provide the same coverage we'veoK >been dishing out for the last nine years, plus even more. And for those ofsJ >you who wonder why we didn't opt for Shannon Knows HPS, it turns out thatK >HPS is the acronym for Hewlett Packard Services! Thanks to a senior Compaqk5 >manager for pointing out this potential gaffe to us!) >  >--o >Terry C. Shannon  >Consultant and Publisheri >Shannon Knows HPC# >PLEASE NOTE MY *NEW* EMAIL ADDRESS  >email: terryshannon@attbi.com3 >Web (info on SKC):  www.openvms.org, www.tru64.orgh >A >P   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 2 May 2002 10:28:05 -05001 From: "Dave Gudewicz" <david.gudewicz@abbott.com>E0 Subject: Re: SKC Morphs Again... We're Now SKHPC8 Message-ID: <aarm1v$gde$1@fizban.fizban.pprd.abbott.com>  1 Couldn't help but think after reading Ben's note:e  K If we learn nothing from history, we are doomed to repeat it.  Or somethinga
 like that.  K Can anyone here enlighten us with a merger such as this that DID work?  AndgF to reiterate the obvious, the Compaq assimilation of DEC did NOT work.   Dave...t  4 "Ben Myers" <ben_myers@charter.net> wrote in message) news:3cd14eee.7021958@news.charter.net...hB > Well, whatever you call the newsletter, it should prove to be an interestingoK > chronicle of the on-going soap opera of one set of related mergers in thenH > computer industry.  I lived thru one failed merger on a vastly smaller scale:F > Honeywell, GE and Groupe Bull.  What always seems to be missing in a merger is atG > clear vision and strategic direction, because executives are too busys fightingK > for their own corporate lives to think clearly.  The blood and carnage of  HPaqL > employees will be considerable once the wheels of this merger get turning. >e > ... Ben MyersC >i6 > On Wed, 01 May 2002 14:39:39 GMT, "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com> > wrote: > L > >Another year, another name change. We at Shannon Knows DEC, Shannon KnowsJ > >Distributed Enterprise Computing, Shannon Knows Compaq, and now ShannonI > >Knows HPC are getting used to the good old name game. And we hope thate youzJ > >Constant Readers will take the latest name change in stride. Here's theJ > >deal: Shannon Knows Compaq has withstood the rigors of two name changes plusH > >the economic angst of the thermonuclear winter incited by a wholesaleK > >dot-com bombing. Acting on the news yesterday that the Delaware ChancerywJ > >Court has given Hewlett-Packard's acquisition of Compaq a go-ahead, SKC hasTG > >changed its name to Shannon Knows High Performance Computing. HP, ofn course, B > >can be construed as High Performance or Hewlett-Packard, which,I > >post-acquisition, will be Numero Uno in the High Performance ComputingoL > >arena. In the interest of brevity-plus a desire to coin a new five-letterK > >acronym-we'll now operate under the SKHPC name. Extended "dance version"dI > >five-letter acronym aside, we'll continue to provide the same coverageL we've J > >been dishing out for the last nine years, plus even more. And for those ofL > >you who wonder why we didn't opt for Shannon Knows HPS, it turns out thatF > >HPS is the acronym for Hewlett Packard Services! Thanks to a senior Compaq7 > >manager for pointing out this potential gaffe to us!  > >o > >--r > >Terry C. Shannont > >Consultant and Publisherl > >Shannon Knows HPC% > >PLEASE NOTE MY *NEW* EMAIL ADDRESSb  > >email: terryshannon@attbi.com5 > >Web (info on SKC):  www.openvms.org, www.tru64.orge > >t > >d >-   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 02 May 2002 14:12:50 GMT 1 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com>n0 Subject: Re: SKC Morphs Again... We're Now SKHPC; Message-ID: <CPbA8.62608$%s3.24525658@typhoon.ne.ipsvc.net>g  3 "Peter da Silva" <peter@abbnm.com> wrote in messagen' news:aardoq$s02@web.eng.baileynm.com...aI > Possibly it's time to abandon the "Shannon Knows Foo" naming scheme, orr8 > make it "Shannon Doesn't Know What To Call This Site"?  D Quite possibly so. Truth be known, it wasn't me who came up with theG original naming scheme. Back in the 80's, there was a newsletter callednI Monosson on DEC. It got bought by DataTrends Publications (Sonny MonossontK laughed all the way to the bank), who hired me to write a monthly column in-E what they initially called the Datatrends Report on DEC, thence TerryeK Shannon on DEC. That publication ultimately folded, but DataTrends retainedDH the naming rights. Which meant that Jonathan Eunice and I had to come upK with another name for the newsletter we wanted to launch. T'was Jonathan orrL his significant other that conjured up "Shannon Knows..." I thought the nameH was a bit arrogant and pretentious, but I couldn't come up with a betterH one. After all, Digital News, Digital Review, Digital News & Review, DECJ Pro, VAX Pro, Hardcopy, DEC Computing, OnDEC, Computers R Digital, etc all were taken!.  ? Life was so much easier back in 1964 when Pat McGovern launched E ComputerWorld (ne Computerworld, the InterCappIng came later). A nice:I all-purpose name that's withstood the test of time, not to mention myriado( mergers, acquisitions, and bankruptcies.   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 02 May 2002 14:40:39 GMTB1 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com> 0 Subject: Re: SKC Morphs Again... We're Now SKHPC; Message-ID: <HdcA8.62645$%s3.24541710@typhoon.ne.ipsvc.net>   F "Phillip Helbig" <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> wrote in message5 news:01KH9BQVFUS68Y7NGP@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com...e) > > > SKC Morphs Again... We're Now SKHPCm >e! > > Is that pronounced "skip-sy?"u > ' > Shannon Knows Hewlett-Packard Compaq?- >-+ > Shannon Knows High-Performance Computing?2 >: > Shannon Knows His PCs? >b* > Shannon Knows He is Politically Correct?  " Any but the last will suffice. ;-}  I Based on past experience, Shannon Knows that he doesn't want to spend anys' quality time with CPQ or HWP's lawyers!u   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 02 May 2002 14:53:21 GMTa1 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com>.0 Subject: Re: SKC Morphs Again... We're Now SKHPC; Message-ID: <BpcA8.62647$%s3.24548968@typhoon.ne.ipsvc.net>t  4 "Ben Myers" <ben_myers@charter.net> wrote in message) news:3cd14eee.7021958@news.charter.net... B > Well, whatever you call the newsletter, it should prove to be an interestingrK > chronicle of the on-going soap opera of one set of related mergers in the' > computer industry.  I You've got that right. In reviewing some moldy oldies (SKCs from 1998 andaH 1999) I couldn't help but notice that the Compaq-tion of Digital was farE more sedate than the Current Unpleasantness. Things didn't really getvE interesting until Compaq started trying to digest its Digital dinner.e  H We can only hope that CPQ and HWP learned from history. If not, they are doomed to repeat it.    : >I lived thru one failed merger on a vastly smaller scale:F > Honeywell, GE and Groupe Bull.  What always seems to be missing in a merger is atG > clear vision and strategic direction, because executives are too busyt fighting1 > for their own corporate lives to think clearly.m  L No doubt! It's interesting to note that the New HP will include a lot of theL Usual Compaq Suspects in the enterprise portion of its org chart. Names like( McDowell, Blackmore, Elias, and Mercury.   >The blood and carnage of HPaqL > employees will be considerable once the wheels of this merger get turning.  K Yeah, one has to wonder just how long it will take the New HP to reduce itsa? headcount by 15K, or whatever the final figure turns out to be.a   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 02 May 2002 15:56:44 GMT ' From: ben_myers@charter.net (Ben Myers)w0 Subject: Re: SKC Morphs Again... We're Now SKHPC0 Message-ID: <3cd15f69.11242235@news.charter.net>   Dave,o  P It was the Spanish philosopher, Santayana, who said: "He who does not learn fromL history is doomed to repeat it."  Actually, he may have said something quiteO different in Spanish, but that's  the way it is usually translated into English>J (and much the same in Italian, BTW, according to my long-ago colleagues in Italy).y  O A computer industry merger that actually worked?  Wow, that's a tough one.  The'I closest I can come are the various buyouts made by Symantec (Peter NortonaP Computing, Central Point Software, and Microsoft (e.g. Bauer's Postscript clone,I now named TrueType), and those buyouts were so private that nobody on thegM outside ever got to know the ensuing internal carnage, layoffs, etc.  By whatnM criteria does a merger work, anyway?  Increased revenue?  Level or increasingc: headcount?  Survival of the merged entity for a few years?  N Here are a few of the brand names now absorbed into HPaq: Apollo, Tandem, DEC,$ Compaq, Thomas-Conrad.   Any others?  M A computer HARDWARE merger that actually worked?  I think we're talking abouti9 the null set here, not to increase with HPaq... Ben Myers	  N On Thu, 2 May 2002 10:28:05 -0500, "Dave Gudewicz" <david.gudewicz@abbott.com> wrote:  2 >Couldn't help but think after reading Ben's note: >aL >If we learn nothing from history, we are doomed to repeat it.  Or something >like that.  >aL >Can anyone here enlighten us with a merger such as this that DID work?  AndG >to reiterate the obvious, the Compaq assimilation of DEC did NOT work.o >  >Dave... >i5 >"Ben Myers" <ben_myers@charter.net> wrote in messagee* >news:3cd14eee.7021958@news.charter.net...C >> Well, whatever you call the newsletter, it should prove to be ano >interestingL >> chronicle of the on-going soap opera of one set of related mergers in theI >> computer industry.  I lived thru one failed merger on a vastly smallerr >scale:iG >> Honeywell, GE and Groupe Bull.  What always seems to be missing in ao >merger is aH >> clear vision and strategic direction, because executives are too busy	 >fighting L >> for their own corporate lives to think clearly.  The blood and carnage of >HPaqsM >> employees will be considerable once the wheels of this merger get turning.. >> >> ... Ben Myers >>7 >> On Wed, 01 May 2002 14:39:39 GMT, "Terry C. Shannon"m ><terryshannon@attbi.com>l	 >> wrote:a >>M >> >Another year, another name change. We at Shannon Knows DEC, Shannon KnowsbK >> >Distributed Enterprise Computing, Shannon Knows Compaq, and now Shannon J >> >Knows HPC are getting used to the good old name game. And we hope that >youK >> >Constant Readers will take the latest name change in stride. Here's thetK >> >deal: Shannon Knows Compaq has withstood the rigors of two name changesr >plusvI >> >the economic angst of the thermonuclear winter incited by a wholesalelL >> >dot-com bombing. Acting on the news yesterday that the Delaware ChanceryK >> >Court has given Hewlett-Packard's acquisition of Compaq a go-ahead, SKCe >hasH >> >changed its name to Shannon Knows High Performance Computing. HP, of >course,C >> >can be construed as High Performance or Hewlett-Packard, which,iJ >> >post-acquisition, will be Numero Uno in the High Performance ComputingM >> >arena. In the interest of brevity-plus a desire to coin a new five-letteriL >> >acronym-we'll now operate under the SKHPC name. Extended "dance version"J >> >five-letter acronym aside, we'll continue to provide the same coverage >we'veK >> >been dishing out for the last nine years, plus even more. And for those  >ofaM >> >you who wonder why we didn't opt for Shannon Knows HPS, it turns out that,G >> >HPS is the acronym for Hewlett Packard Services! Thanks to a seniora >Compaql8 >> >manager for pointing out this potential gaffe to us! >> > >> >-- >> >Terry C. Shannon >> >Consultant and Publisher >> >Shannon Knows HPC & >> >PLEASE NOTE MY *NEW* EMAIL ADDRESS! >> >email: terryshannon@attbi.comb6 >> >Web (info on SKC):  www.openvms.org, www.tru64.org >> > >> > >> >' >e   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 02 May 2002 16:11:48 GMT 1 From: LESLIE@JRLVAX.HOUSTON.RR.COM (Jerry Leslie)c0 Subject: Re: SKC Morphs Again... We're Now SKHPC: Message-ID: <8zdA8.21597$My4.877075@typhoon.austin.rr.com>  0 Dave Gudewicz (david.gudewicz@abbott.com) wrote:3 : Couldn't help but think after reading Ben's note:  : M : If we learn nothing from history, we are doomed to repeat it.  Or somethinge : like that. : M : Can anyone here enlighten us with a merger such as this that DID work?  AndhH : to reiterate the obvious, the Compaq assimilation of DEC did NOT work. : 	 : Dave...  : J Apparently the Burroughs/Univac merger worked, for some value of "worked",H since the company is still in business, and still selling products based on Burroughs and Univac; e.g.:  ,    http://news.com.com/2100-1001-887494.html9    Unisys to expand mainframe line - Tech News - CNET.comc    s"    Unisys to expand mainframe line    By Stephen Shankland     Staff Writer, CNET News.com    April 19, 2002, 3:45 PM PT   D    Unisys, one of the few companies that continues to sell mainframeE    computers in competition with market-leading IBM, will announce anD-    expansion of its high-end machines Monday.h    iH    The company will announce faster machines in its ClearPath Plus line,A    which shares much of the same hardware as its ES7000 "cellulare$    multiprocessing" Windows servers.    iD    Cellular multiprocessing lets Blue Bell, Pa.-based Unisys run itsI    older mainframe operating systems and Windows 2000 on the same system. D    Through partitioning features, which let a system be divided intoG    several independent servers, different operating systems can coexista-    in different sections of the hardware...."'    w5 Their OS2200 is supposedly based on Univac's EXEC 8. n  + That brings up several off-topic questions:e  #   o is the assembler still SLEUTH ?m  ?      http://www.fourmilab.ch/documents/univac/instructions.htmla'      UNIVAC 1100 Series Instruction SetS  ,   o is there a USENET newsgroup for OS2200 ?  H I'd be willing to 'LMJ X11,Unisys_gig', since VMS work has dried up. :-)  H --Jerry Leslie   leslie@clio.rice.edu  (my opinions are strictly my own)9   Note: leslie@jrlvax.houston.rr.com is invalid for emailr   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 2 May 2002 11:48:38 -05001 From: "Dave Gudewicz" <david.gudewicz@abbott.com> 0 Subject: Re: SKC Morphs Again... We're Now SKHPC8 Message-ID: <aarqov$h6f$1@fizban.fizban.pprd.abbott.com>  K Someone reminded me today of a rather large merger that went the wrong way.?  H AOL / Time Warner   now claiming losses in the $54 billion (yes billion) range.  : Wonder what the shareholders were told before that merger?   Dave...s  4 "Ben Myers" <ben_myers@charter.net> wrote in message* news:3cd15f69.11242235@news.charter.net... > Dave,l >hG > It was the Spanish philosopher, Santayana, who said: "He who does noto
 learn fromH > history is doomed to repeat it."  Actually, he may have said something quite I > different in Spanish, but that's  the way it is usually translated into  EnglishlL > (and much the same in Italian, BTW, according to my long-ago colleagues in	 > Italy).n >eL > A computer industry merger that actually worked?  Wow, that's a tough one. TherK > closest I can come are the various buyouts made by Symantec (Peter NortonhK > Computing, Central Point Software, and Microsoft (e.g. Bauer's Postscript3 clone,K > now named TrueType), and those buyouts were so private that nobody on thehJ > outside ever got to know the ensuing internal carnage, layoffs, etc.  By whatD > criteria does a merger work, anyway?  Increased revenue?  Level or
 increasing< > headcount?  Survival of the merged entity for a few years? >lK > Here are a few of the brand names now absorbed into HPaq: Apollo, Tandem,a DEC,& > Compaq, Thomas-Conrad.   Any others? >uI > A computer HARDWARE merger that actually worked?  I think we're talking  aboutm; > the null set here, not to increase with HPaq... Ben Myersc >04 > On Thu, 2 May 2002 10:28:05 -0500, "Dave Gudewicz" <david.gudewicz@abbott.com>a > wrote: > 4 > >Couldn't help but think after reading Ben's note: > >tD > >If we learn nothing from history, we are doomed to repeat it.  Or	 somethingt
 > >like that.m > >nI > >Can anyone here enlighten us with a merger such as this that DID work?u AndeI > >to reiterate the obvious, the Compaq assimilation of DEC did NOT work.n > >E
 > >Dave... > >r7 > >"Ben Myers" <ben_myers@charter.net> wrote in messagev, > >news:3cd14eee.7021958@news.charter.net...E > >> Well, whatever you call the newsletter, it should prove to be anw > >interestingJ > >> chronicle of the on-going soap opera of one set of related mergers in the K > >> computer industry.  I lived thru one failed merger on a vastly smallerp	 > >scale:fI > >> Honeywell, GE and Groupe Bull.  What always seems to be missing in an > >merger is aJ > >> clear vision and strategic direction, because executives are too busy > >fightingwK > >> for their own corporate lives to think clearly.  The blood and carnagea of > >HPaqyF > >> employees will be considerable once the wheels of this merger get turning. > >> > >> ... Ben Myers > >>9 > >> On Wed, 01 May 2002 14:39:39 GMT, "Terry C. Shannon"t > ><terryshannon@attbi.com>h > >> wrote:d > >>I > >> >Another year, another name change. We at Shannon Knows DEC, Shannon  KnowseE > >> >Distributed Enterprise Computing, Shannon Knows Compaq, and nows ShannontL > >> >Knows HPC are getting used to the good old name game. And we hope that > >youI > >> >Constant Readers will take the latest name change in stride. Here'ss the4E > >> >deal: Shannon Knows Compaq has withstood the rigors of two namet changeso > >plus K > >> >the economic angst of the thermonuclear winter incited by a wholesalerE > >> >dot-com bombing. Acting on the news yesterday that the Delawaree ChanceryI > >> >Court has given Hewlett-Packard's acquisition of Compaq a go-ahead,  SKC  > >hasJ > >> >changed its name to Shannon Knows High Performance Computing. HP, of
 > >course,E > >> >can be construed as High Performance or Hewlett-Packard, which,bL > >> >post-acquisition, will be Numero Uno in the High Performance ComputingC > >> >arena. In the interest of brevity-plus a desire to coin a newy five-letter9E > >> >acronym-we'll now operate under the SKHPC name. Extended "danceo version"L > >> >five-letter acronym aside, we'll continue to provide the same coverage > >we'veG > >> >been dishing out for the last nine years, plus even more. And forg thoseo > >ofoJ > >> >you who wonder why we didn't opt for Shannon Knows HPS, it turns out thatI > >> >HPS is the acronym for Hewlett Packard Services! Thanks to a seniort	 > >Compaqo: > >> >manager for pointing out this potential gaffe to us! > >> > > >> >-- > >> >Terry C. Shannon > >> >Consultant and Publisher > >> >Shannon Knows HPCh( > >> >PLEASE NOTE MY *NEW* EMAIL ADDRESS# > >> >email: terryshannon@attbi.comq8 > >> >Web (info on SKC):  www.openvms.org, www.tru64.org > >> > > >> > > >> > >n > >, >n   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 02 May 2002 17:00:27 GMTh5 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com>g0 Subject: Re: SKC Morphs Again... We're Now SKHPC9 Message-ID: <LgeA8.16$ap2.485481@cacnews.cac.cpqcorp.net>r  D It seems to me that what you need to decide is if it is important toG continue to carry the name of the company that you are covering in yourLI publication title - given that has 'morphed' again.  So, carrying forwardfL Shannon Knows HP makes sense... if you plan to expand it to embrace the restK of HP (printers, HP-UX, etc).  Using "HPS" is sort-of a nice little cheat - I you get the HP in, but the HPS limits the scope.  But of course, when IBM 6 aquires HP in 2015, you'll have to change it again ;-)  I You could decide that at this point, it is your name that people buy (andlK that they know what is inside) and rename your newsletter to something likerL "The Shannon Report" - which isn't much more pretentious - and decouples the company from your newsletter.   8 Or you could go for real focused - Shannon Knows VMS ;-)      % Terry C. Shannon wrote in message ...6 >84 >"Peter da Silva" <peter@abbnm.com> wrote in message( >news:aardoq$s02@web.eng.baileynm.com...J >> Possibly it's time to abandon the "Shannon Knows Foo" naming scheme, or9 >> make it "Shannon Doesn't Know What To Call This Site"?D >nE >Quite possibly so. Truth be known, it wasn't me who came up with theiH >original naming scheme. Back in the 80's, there was a newsletter calledJ >Monosson on DEC. It got bought by DataTrends Publications (Sonny MonossonL >laughed all the way to the bank), who hired me to write a monthly column inF >what they initially called the Datatrends Report on DEC, thence TerryL >Shannon on DEC. That publication ultimately folded, but DataTrends retainedI >the naming rights. Which meant that Jonathan Eunice and I had to come uphL >with another name for the newsletter we wanted to launch. T'was Jonathan orH >his significant other that conjured up "Shannon Knows..." I thought the nameI >was a bit arrogant and pretentious, but I couldn't come up with a betterlI >one. After all, Digital News, Digital Review, Digital News & Review, DECiK >Pro, VAX Pro, Hardcopy, DEC Computing, OnDEC, Computers R Digital, etc allt >were taken! >c@ >Life was so much easier back in 1964 when Pat McGovern launchedF >ComputerWorld (ne Computerworld, the InterCappIng came later). A niceJ >all-purpose name that's withstood the test of time, not to mention myriad) >mergers, acquisitions, and bankruptcies., >d >n   ------------------------------   Date: 2 May 2002 09:59:51 -07002( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)0 Subject: Re: SKC Morphs Again... We're Now SKHPC< Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0205020859.f15f750@posting.google.com>  r "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote in message news:<xG5A8.38273$Lj.2759422@bin4.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>...7 > "David Froble" <davef@tsoft-inc.com> wrote in messagea( > news:3CD0CAA5.1010202@tsoft-inc.com...L > > Hey Bill, do you do anything besides watch for Rob's posts?  I never get
 >  to jump > > on him first.u > L > Actually, it's Rob's posts that seem to jump out at me, and responses haveM > become almost automatic since his material doesn't change much.  Of course,n: > that can give my responses a certain sameness as well... > N > Just to break the monotony, I'm thinking of making up a Letterman-style 'topK > ten' list of reasons why we're all still breathlessly awaiting the publicSB > debut of Itanic 2.  At this rate, EV7 and Hammer may not only beJ > embarrassingly faster, but embarrassingly faster to market as well.  AndN > (while on the subject of Itanic 2's wondrous performance if and when), I wasL > surprised to notice recently that USIII has made it up to 610 in SPECint2KF > performance:  wouldn't it be amusing if after all the "Just wait forK > McKinley!" hype over the past year Itanic *still* turned out to be at the  > back of the pack?t >  > - bill  B but when EV8 shows up masquerading as itanic 3 ... your mouth will
 drop open ...s   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 02 May 2002 17:07:05 GMTd' From: ben_myers@charter.net (Ben Myers) 0 Subject: Re: SKC Morphs Again... We're Now SKHPC0 Message-ID: <3cd171a3.15908458@news.charter.net>   Jerry,  O Whoa!  You bring back memories of work I did on a Univac 1107.  Some assembler,  some Fortran, some ALGOL 60!  N Maybe the Burroughs-Univac merger succeeded to some degree because they didn'tN come up with some stupidly clever name like Bunivac or Agilent or Verizon, the; latter two being real corporate nonsense names... Ben Myerse  M On Thu, 02 May 2002 16:11:48 GMT, LESLIE@JRLVAX.HOUSTON.RR.COM (Jerry Leslie)c wrote:  1 >Dave Gudewicz (david.gudewicz@abbott.com) wrote:a4 >: Couldn't help but think after reading Ben's note: >: sN >: If we learn nothing from history, we are doomed to repeat it.  Or something
 >: like that.o >: cN >: Can anyone here enlighten us with a merger such as this that DID work?  AndI >: to reiterate the obvious, the Compaq assimilation of DEC did NOT work.e >: r
 >: Dave... >: nK >Apparently the Burroughs/Univac merger worked, for some value of "worked",5I >since the company is still in business, and still selling products based  >on Burroughs and Univac; e.g.:  > - >   http://news.com.com/2100-1001-887494.htmlc: >   Unisys to expand mainframe line - Tech News - CNET.com >   # >   Unisys to expand mainframe linel >   By Stephen Shankland c >   Staff Writer, CNET News.comd >   April 19, 2002, 3:45 PM PT >tE >   Unisys, one of the few companies that continues to sell mainframe F >   computers in competition with market-leading IBM, will announce an. >   expansion of its high-end machines Monday. >   I >   The company will announce faster machines in its ClearPath Plus line,dB >   which shares much of the same hardware as its ES7000 "cellular% >   multiprocessing" Windows servers.l >   E >   Cellular multiprocessing lets Blue Bell, Pa.-based Unisys run itsuJ >   older mainframe operating systems and Windows 2000 on the same system.E >   Through partitioning features, which let a system be divided intopH >   several independent servers, different operating systems can coexist. >   in different sections of the hardware...." >   6 >Their OS2200 is supposedly based on Univac's EXEC 8.  > , >That brings up several off-topic questions: >"$ >  o is the assembler still SLEUTH ? >>@ >     http://www.fourmilab.ch/documents/univac/instructions.html( >     UNIVAC 1100 Series Instruction Set >o- >  o is there a USENET newsgroup for OS2200 ?  > I >I'd be willing to 'LMJ X11,Unisys_gig', since VMS work has dried up. :-)d >tI >--Jerry Leslie   leslie@clio.rice.edu  (my opinions are strictly my own) : >  Note: leslie@jrlvax.houston.rr.com is invalid for email   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 02 May 2002 15:58:36 GMTo1 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com>i0 Subject: Re: SKC Morphs Again... We're Now SKHPC; Message-ID: <MmdA8.62657$%s3.24589036@typhoon.ne.ipsvc.net>   4 "Ben Myers" <ben_myers@charter.net> wrote in message* news:3cd15f69.11242235@news.charter.net... > Dave,s >eG > It was the Spanish philosopher, Santayana, who said: "He who does nott
 learn fromH > history is doomed to repeat it."  Actually, he may have said something quitelI > different in Spanish, but that's  the way it is usually translated into  EnglishwL > (and much the same in Italian, BTW, according to my long-ago colleagues in	 > Italy).9 > L > A computer industry merger that actually worked?  Wow, that's a tough one. TheeK > closest I can come are the various buyouts made by Symantec (Peter NortonuK > Computing, Central Point Software, and Microsoft (e.g. Bauer's PostscriptP clone,K > now named TrueType), and those buyouts were so private that nobody on theaJ > outside ever got to know the ensuing internal carnage, layoffs, etc.  By whatD > criteria does a merger work, anyway?  Increased revenue?  Level or
 increasing< > headcount?  Survival of the merged entity for a few years? >oK > Here are a few of the brand names now absorbed into HPaq: Apollo, Tandem,o DEC,& > Compaq, Thomas-Conrad.   Any others?  # Convex got vectorized into HP, too.n   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 02 May 2002 10:21:51 -0700 & From: Greg Cagle <gregc@gregcagle.com>0 Subject: Re: SKC Morphs Again... We're Now SKHPC, Message-ID: <3CD175AF.6080909@gregcagle.com>   Terry C. Shannon wrote:  > % > Convex got vectorized into HP, too.    LOL on the wording.c  K You know, as a side note, the supercomputer folks often refer to themselveseO as High Performance Computing, for what it's worth. Could be a confusion point.e   -- i
 Greg Cagle gregc at gregcagle dot com   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 02 May 2002 17:09:27 GMTa1 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com>a0 Subject: Re: SKC Morphs Again... We're Now SKHPC; Message-ID: <bpeA8.62665$%s3.24634496@typhoon.ne.ipsvc.net>   < "Dave Gudewicz" <david.gudewicz@abbott.com> wrote in message2 news:aarqov$h6f$1@fizban.fizban.pprd.abbott.com...H > Someone reminded me today of a rather large merger that went the wrong way. >CJ > AOL / Time Warner   now claiming losses in the $54 billion (yes billion) > range. >-< > Wonder what the shareholders were told before that merger?   Ummm, "You've Got Mail?"   ------------------------------   Date: 2 May 2002 07:52:32 -05008- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) Y Subject: Re: The 'tone' of c.o.v. (was Re: Prediction:  VMS lives, merger or no  merger!)e3 Message-ID: <32sERLHhZPED@eisner.encompasserve.org>e  } In article <3CCFEF30.3030408@sun.com>, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <andrew_nospam.remove_this.harrison@sun.com> writes:r > @ > Since when did using SAP, Oracle Applications, Baan and other @ > applications suites as examples constitute a small hand picked; > dataset. I know as an OpenVMS practitioner you havn't had ; > much exposure to them but that doesn't give you an excuser< > to write them off as small hand picked none representative; > examples. Do you know how many customers use Oracle Apps,C, > SAP, Baan, JDE, PeopleSoft and Siebel ???? > > > I also used App servers iPlanet and WLS as examples they are& > also not small hand picked datasets. >   E    Hm.  I keep hearing about these, but I've never actualy met anyoneoF    who uses them.  Must be PHM musings.  Or maybe from some fellow who    only works in one market.  >    I and all all the people I work with still need a damn goodE    developement environment.  DEC's editors and compilers have alwaysc&    beat the crap out of any fancy IDE.  G    Now that VMS is heading toward Intel compilers I'm waiting to see ifr    Intel compilers improve.e    gI    The good news is that Compaq has just hooked their C and C++ compilerst@    along with the EDT keypad into a popular free IDE (netbeans).  B    Or do you have a problem with us using netbeans instead of SAP?   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 02 May 2002 15:59:25 GMTv2 From: "Sue Skonetski" <susan.skonetski@compaq.com>) Subject: UK folks this might interest youE9 Message-ID: <xndA8.14$Jn2.436278@cacnews.cac.cpqcorp.net>t   OpenVMS, UNIX and Storage1 "Roadmaps for the Future"          Date:a          28 May 2002  &       Venue:  Scottish Courage Brewery          Imperial Wayk          READING%                Just off J11 of the M4d          Time:  09:30  Registration          16:15  Seminar ends  L ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----   Seminar description:  7 This is the Seminar that YOU have all been waiting for!:  K CUO-UK are pleased to be able to invite Senior Corporate speakers to give ap2 complete review of all the major product Roadmaps.  E They will also be addressing the latest news on the HP/Compaq Merger.i  E Prior to lunch, arrangements have been made for delegates to tour thehI Brewery - just to prove that CUO-UK really can organise a "Booze Up" - toe# celebrate CUO-UK's 1st Anniversary!s   Target Audience:  4 Business Managers, Implementation and Support Staff.  	 Speakers:a  G Mark Gorham has worked at Compaq Computer Corporation for 20 years in apC variety of management positions. He is currently Vice President fornJ worldwide business management of the OpenVMS Business, including StrategicI planning, product development, customer satisfaction, quality and product K marketing of the OpenVMS Systems product portfolio. This portfolio includes E the OpenVMS e-Business Program, the OpenVMS Operating System, OpenVMSyL Clusters, Network Software and all other associated Compaq OpenVMS products.  G John Apps is a Senior Technical Architect in the HPS division of CompaqwJ where he concentrates mainly on integration and middleware. He has over 30G years experience in the industry, more than 20 of which with Compaq andaI DIGITAL. He has extensive experience in designing and developing high-end , transaction processing and database systems.  H Gerald Connolly has been with DIGITAL / Compaq for 10 years and has beenD involved with Storage / SAN most of that time. Gerald is Compaq UK's; "Expert" on Enterprise Storage, both primary and secondary.   F Euan McMaster has been with DIGITAL / Compaq for 13 years and has beenJ involved with Ultrix / OSF1 / DIGITAL UNIX / Tru64 throughout. Euan is nowJ the U.K. representative of the UNIX Support Engineering Group and runs the& UNIX Customer Care program in the U.K.  J Ken Surplice has over 20 years in the IT industry. Ken has experienced theE transition from 16-bit, through 32-bit and on to today's 64-bit AlphaeG systems that Compaq has been shipping for nearly 10 years. His first IT L assignment was in operating system support for the branch office, working inB OpenVMS and UNIX environments. He moved on to pre-sales support inK commercial OEM, technical OEM, education and medical markets. From there heeK moved to UK marketing and then to EMEA marketing, with responsibilities foru Servers.   Agenda:d         09:30d          Registrationl         10:00f                    Plenary: Mark Gorhama         a.. HP/Compaq Update6         b.. New Directions for High Performance Server         Products Technologyr         10:45f          Refreshmentsr         11:00l                  Mark Gorham6         a.. Future directions and Roadmaps for OpenVMS         - Marvel and Beyondf         11:00t                  Euan McMaster&         a.. Roadmap for Tru64 on Alpha7         b.. Enterprise UNIX on Itanium Processor Familym         12:00d          Brewery Tours         13:00e           Lunch with the Partners         13:45e                John Apps#         a.. e-Business with OpenVMS          13:45o                Ken Surplicen&         a.. Scalable Database Clusters         14:45y          Refreshmentse         15:00e                Gerald Connolly         a.. Storage Roadmaps         15:45q                Plenary: Mark Gorhamt3         a.. MARVEL - what is it and what can it do?          16:45  Q & A and Open Barh  L ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----       Registration Fees:0       Corporate and Events Members:    30 + VAT#       Personal Members:  135 + VAT        Non-Members:          200 + VATm         Register by:       Post:a          CUO-UK, P.O. Box 53       READING, RG2 0TW       Tel:  0118 916 0758i       Fax:  0118 975 2269 (       E-mail:  cuo-uk@compaqusers.org.uk       On-line:  REGISTER   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 2 May 2002 05:22:25 -0700# From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com>"A Subject: Virus Scanners (was  URGENT to all Info-VAX subscribers)o9 Message-ID: <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIIECOEOAA.tom@kednos.com>t  > Anybody know if there any products available to scan for virii> at the smtp level?  We run tcpip5.1 under 7.3 and mail is read> by pop clients Outlook.  It would be very nice to filter these; (as well as junk mail) before being read by the pop client.    >-----Original Message-----f8 >From: Mark Berryman [mailto:Mark.Berryman@Mvb.Saic.Com]' >Sent: Wednesday, May 01, 2002 10:06 AMn >To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com, >Subject: URGENT to all Info-VAX subscribers >@ >bH >Because Info-VAX has recently been used to relay messages containing PCC >virii to the Info-VAX mailing list (and comp.os.vms) I have had toeC >change Info-VAX to be a closed mailing list.  This means that only@ >subscribers can post to it. >SF >My apologies for doing this out of hand but, since SAIC was receivingI >complaints that SAIC was sending out viruses in email that came from it, > >my only choices were to do this or shut down the mailing list >altogether. >nE >There are, of course, some side-effects as a result of this action. r
 >They are: > E >o  If I don't have a subscription on file for you, you can't post to 
 >Info-VAX.C >   This will impact all those that subscribe via UGA or some other  >info-vax relay. >bH >o  If the address you subscribed from doesn't match the address you are >posting from, >   the post will be rejected. >eI >To work around these issues, I have added support for subscriptions thatnI >are set to NOMAIL.  If you send a message with the following in the bodyn >of the message: >n >subscribe info-vaxo >set info-vax nomail >oB >You will create a subscription that you can post from but doesn't >receive any mailing list mail.  >SG >Again, my apologies for having to do this in this manner.  Please sendt@ >me email directly if you have any issues or problems with this. >t >Mark Berryman >Mark.Berryman@Mvb.Saic.Comm >Info-VAX administratort >hF >P.S. This change does not affect the Info-VAX<-->comp.os.vms gateway. >  >---' >Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.o; >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).eA >Version: 6.0.351 / Virus Database: 197 - Release Date: 4/19/2002s >o ---o& Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.: Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).@ Version: 6.0.351 / Virus Database: 197 - Release Date: 4/19/2002   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 02 May 2002 14:41:53 +0200n) From: Bart Zorn <B.Zorn@xs4all.nospam.nl>iE Subject: Re: Virus Scanners (was  URGENT to all Info-VAX subscribers)e+ Message-ID: <3CD13411.903@xs4all.nospam.nl>a   Tom Linden wrote:d@ > Anybody know if there any products available to scan for virii@ > at the smtp level?  We run tcpip5.1 under 7.3 and mail is read@ > by pop clients Outlook.  It would be very nice to filter these= > (as well as junk mail) before being read by the pop client.l >   A Sophos has a virus scanner which can be use with PMDF on OpenVMS.P  	 Bart Zorna   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 2 May 2002 14:58:48 +0100* From: "Rainer Giese" <giese@volkswerft.de>E Subject: Re: Virus Scanners (was  URGENT to all Info-VAX subscribers)u5 Message-ID: <aard67$d1mep$1@ID-138444.news.dfncis.de>a  C > Sophos has a virus scanner which can be use with PMDF on OpenVMS.)  H We use that, together with a product called "MailMarshal", on a separateC Intel server, so mails are caught before they reach our POP-Server.sG The advantage of the Sophos product (I have no shares) is, that you caneD update the scanner by downloading small supplement files, what we doD repeatedly on the day. It was already helpful sometimes against fast delivering virus mails.b   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 02 May 2002 09:14:19 -0400s1 From: Micheal Austin <maustin@firstdbasource.com>nE Subject: Re: Virus Scanners (was  URGENT to all Info-VAX subscribers)u2 Message-ID: <3CD13BAB.378DC8C4@firstdbasource.com>   Tom Linden wrote:. > @ > Anybody know if there any products available to scan for virii@ > at the smtp level?  We run tcpip5.1 under 7.3 and mail is read@ > by pop clients Outlook.  It would be very nice to filter these= > (as well as junk mail) before being read by the pop client.b >  > >-----Original Message-----l: > >From: Mark Berryman [mailto:Mark.Berryman@Mvb.Saic.Com]) > >Sent: Wednesday, May 01, 2002 10:06 AMn > >To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com. > >Subject: URGENT to all Info-VAX subscribers > >n > > J > >Because Info-VAX has recently been used to relay messages containing PCE > >virii to the Info-VAX mailing list (and comp.os.vms) I have had to E > >change Info-VAX to be a closed mailing list.  This means that onlyt > >subscribers can post to it. > >-H > >My apologies for doing this out of hand but, since SAIC was receivingK > >complaints that SAIC was sending out viruses in email that came from it, @ > >my only choices were to do this or shut down the mailing list > >altogether. > >oF > >There are, of course, some side-effects as a result of this action. > >They are: > >bG > >o  If I don't have a subscription on file for you, you can't post tot > >Info-VAX.E > >   This will impact all those that subscribe via UGA or some othert > >info-vax relay. > >tJ > >o  If the address you subscribed from doesn't match the address you are > >posting from,  > >   the post will be rejected. > >eK > >To work around these issues, I have added support for subscriptions thataK > >are set to NOMAIL.  If you send a message with the following in the body  > >of the message: > >  > >subscribe info-vax: > >set info-vax nomail > > D > >You will create a subscription that you can post from but doesn't! > >receive any mailing list mail.E > > I > >Again, my apologies for having to do this in this manner.  Please send B > >me email directly if you have any issues or problems with this. > >n > >Mark Berryman > >Mark.Berryman@Mvb.Saic.Comu > >Info-VAX administrator  > >tH > >P.S. This change does not affect the Info-VAX<-->comp.os.vms gateway. > >  > >---) > >Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.i= > >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).TC > >Version: 6.0.351 / Virus Database: 197 - Release Date: 4/19/2002e > >c > ---s( > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.< > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).B > Version: 6.0.351 / Virus Database: 197 - Release Date: 4/19/2002    F It doesn't run on OpenVMS, but can be used with OpenVMS (if I read the docs correctly).  ? http://www.sophos.com/products/software/mailmonitor/mmsmtp.htmls   -- s Regards,  7 Michael Austin            Registered Linux User #261163y7 First DBA Source, Inc.    http://www.firstdbasource.comd Sr. Consultant 704-947-1089 (Office)g 704-236-4377 (Mobile),   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 2 May 2002 15:20:47 +0100* From: "Rainer Giese" <giese@volkswerft.de>E Subject: Re: Virus Scanners (was  URGENT to all Info-VAX subscribers)e5 Message-ID: <aarefe$d3jit$1@ID-138444.news.dfncis.de>e  H > It doesn't run on OpenVMS, but can be used with OpenVMS (if I read the > docs correctly).  I The "MailMonitor" is for Windows only, the Sophos virus scanner _can_ runn1 under VMS (for example to scan Pathworks shares).0   ------------------------------  * Date: Thu, 2 May 2002 13:44:05 +0000 (UTC) From: david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.ukE Subject: Re: Virus Scanners (was  URGENT to all Info-VAX subscribers)r+ Message-ID: <aarfr5$dh9$1@aquila.mdx.ac.uk>-  _ In article <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIIECOEOAA.tom@kednos.com>, "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> writes:r? >Anybody know if there any products available to scan for viriiS? >at the smtp level?  We run tcpip5.1 under 7.3 and mail is read ? >by pop clients Outlook.  It would be very nice to filter thesed< >(as well as junk mail) before being read by the pop client. >a  N We scan all incoming and outgoing mail using PMDF and Sophos Vsweep anti-virus	 software.rI The PMDF conversion channel splits out each attachment, MIME decodes it, aK passes it to a DCL command file which runs the virus scanner against it andcK then either reencodes it and delivers the message or take some action if it90 is infected. Actions can include such things as    1) Deleting mesage 2) Bouncing Messagel; 3) Replacing infected attachment with warning text message.t  N  L I believe the MX product has similar functionality to interface with a virus scanner.  M DEC TCPIP services does not as far as I am aware have any such facility built L in and I'd doubt that either Multinet or TCPWARE provide this functionality.  G Blocking junk mail aka spam can be accomplished by using lists of knownnH spammers such as the MAPS lists. PMDF and MX provide such facilities andI I believe all the TCPIP stacks probably do now - along with anti-relayingm facilities.o  H http://www.declude.com/JunkMail/Support/ip4r.htm provides a list of such anti-spam databases.  K Some spam will undoubtedly get through this since by their very nature suchr lists are reactive.:  O Although you could setup PMDF (and probably MX) to scan mail messages for wordsoN and phrases in an attempt to detect spam which gets past the blocking lists itO is difficult to imagine what words or phrases would detect just spam and would e' not result in loads of false positives.p  N The above of course is running software directly on VMS. You could also directM the mail through another box, running another OS and similar software, before0L delivering it to the VMS system. There are a fairly large number of productsM in these areas for Unix and Microsoft operating systems. I have no experience@G with the non-vms products and hence cannot comment on their benefits ort weaknesses.         
 David Webb VMS and Unix team leader CCSS Middlesex University         >>-----Original Message-----9 >>From: Mark Berryman [mailto:Mark.Berryman@Mvb.Saic.Com]l( >>Sent: Wednesday, May 01, 2002 10:06 AM >>To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com - >>Subject: URGENT to all Info-VAX subscribersm >> >>I >>Because Info-VAX has recently been used to relay messages containing PC3D >>virii to the Info-VAX mailing list (and comp.os.vms) I have had toD >>change Info-VAX to be a closed mailing list.  This means that only >>subscribers can post to it.Z >>G >>My apologies for doing this out of hand but, since SAIC was receivingeJ >>complaints that SAIC was sending out viruses in email that came from it,? >>my only choices were to do this or shut down the mailing list 
 >>altogether.p >>F >>There are, of course, some side-effects as a result of this action.  >>They are:n >>F >>o  If I don't have a subscription on file for you, you can't post to >>Info-VAX.cD >>   This will impact all those that subscribe via UGA or some other >>info-vax relay.o >>I >>o  If the address you subscribed from doesn't match the address you are  >>posting from,o >>   the post will be rejected.  >>J >>To work around these issues, I have added support for subscriptions thatJ >>are set to NOMAIL.  If you send a message with the following in the body >>of the message:n >> >>subscribe info-vax >>set info-vax nomail  >>C >>You will create a subscription that you can post from but doesn'tm  >>receive any mailing list mail. >>H >>Again, my apologies for having to do this in this manner.  Please sendA >>me email directly if you have any issues or problems with this.t >> >>Mark Berrymant >>Mark.Berryman@Mvb.Saic.Com >>Info-VAX administrator >>G >>P.S. This change does not affect the Info-VAX<-->comp.os.vms gateway.d >> >>---u( >>Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.< >>Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).B >>Version: 6.0.351 / Virus Database: 197 - Release Date: 4/19/2002 >> >---' >Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.u; >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).1A >Version: 6.0.351 / Virus Database: 197 - Release Date: 4/19/20021 >R   ------------------------------  * Date: Thu, 2 May 2002 14:16:28 +0000 (UTC) From: david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.ukE Subject: Re: Virus Scanners (was  URGENT to all Info-VAX subscribers)M+ Message-ID: <aarhns$e3b$1@aquila.mdx.ac.uk>   f In article <3CD13BAB.378DC8C4@firstdbasource.com>, Micheal Austin <maustin@firstdbasource.com> writes: >Tom Linden wrote: >> :A >> Anybody know if there any products available to scan for virii-A >> at the smtp level?  We run tcpip5.1 under 7.3 and mail is readvA >> by pop clients Outlook.  It would be very nice to filter thesel> >> (as well as junk mail) before being read by the pop client. >> o >o >nG >It doesn't run on OpenVMS, but can be used with OpenVMS (if I read thet >docs correctly).U >e@ >http://www.sophos.com/products/software/mailmonitor/mmsmtp.html >a >--   N Sophos can be used to scan files directly on VMS systems. It can also be used 6 with PMDF and MX to handle incoming and outgoing mail.I In order to scan mail attachments they need to be split out and each mimeyK attachment decoded before scanning. This is handled by the PMDF conversion i) channels and in MX by the SITE interface.o  F There is a previous discussion on this subject in both comp.os.vms and vmsnet.mail.mx  with the title s  & Any virus scan software for VMS smtp ?   dated 5th March 2002     K Bob Ceculski (bob@instantwhip.com) also said in that discussion that he hadpH spoken to Sophos' VMS expert in the UK who had told him that Sophos wereM considering making their product work directly with Multinet, TCPWARE and UCXaN rather than being as currently tied to PMDF (and MX). I would assume that theyO mean porting the mailmonitor software referred to above to run natively on VMS.gH You might want to contact Sophos to see whether such a port is underway.  
 David Webb VMS and Unix team leader CCSS Middlesex University   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 02 May 2002 09:28:58 -0700p+ From: "Barry Treahy, Jr." <Treahy@mmaz.com> E Subject: Re: Virus Scanners (was  URGENT to all Info-VAX subscribers) ' Message-ID: <3CD1694A.3040602@mmaz.com>X   Tom Linden wrote:E  ? >Anybody know if there any products available to scan for virii ? >at the smtp level?  We run tcpip5.1 under 7.3 and mail is read ? >by pop clients Outlook.  It would be very nice to filter thesed< >(as well as junk mail) before being read by the pop client. >-F I use the TrendMicro Interscan/Viruswall product which can scan SMTP, E FTP, and HTTP traffic.  It is affordable BUT it does not run on VMS.  H  The good news is that it does run on various version of Unix including 4 Linux, so you could setup an inexpensive solution...   Barryc   >r >s >>-----Original Message-----9 >>From: Mark Berryman [mailto:Mark.Berryman@Mvb.Saic.Com] ( >>Sent: Wednesday, May 01, 2002 10:06 AM >>To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com - >>Subject: URGENT to all Info-VAX subscribersr >> >>I >>Because Info-VAX has recently been used to relay messages containing PC D >>virii to the Info-VAX mailing list (and comp.os.vms) I have had toD >>change Info-VAX to be a closed mailing list.  This means that only >>subscribers can post to it.O >>G >>My apologies for doing this out of hand but, since SAIC was receivingcJ >>complaints that SAIC was sending out viruses in email that came from it,? >>my only choices were to do this or shut down the mailing listu
 >>altogether.0 >>F >>There are, of course, some side-effects as a result of this action.  >>They are:. >>F >>o  If I don't have a subscription on file for you, you can't post to >>Info-VAX.lC >>  This will impact all those that subscribe via UGA or some other  >>info-vax relay.  >>I >>o  If the address you subscribed from doesn't match the address you are  >>posting from,G >>  the post will be rejected. >>J >>To work around these issues, I have added support for subscriptions thatJ >>are set to NOMAIL.  If you send a message with the following in the body >>of the message:: >> >>subscribe info-vax >>set info-vax nomailT >>C >>You will create a subscription that you can post from but doesn't   >>receive any mailing list mail. >>H >>Again, my apologies for having to do this in this manner.  Please sendA >>me email directly if you have any issues or problems with this.p >> >>Mark Berryman  >>Mark.Berryman@Mvb.Saic.Com >>Info-VAX administrator >>G >>P.S. This change does not affect the Info-VAX<-->comp.os.vms gateway.u >> >>---s( >>Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.< >>Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).B >>Version: 6.0.351 / Virus Database: 197 - Release Date: 4/19/2002 >> >---' >Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free..; >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). A >Version: 6.0.351 / Virus Database: 197 - Release Date: 4/19/2002h >o >l   --    @ Barry Treahy, Jr  *  Midwest Microwave  *  Vice President & CIO   A E-mail: Treahy@mmaz.com * Phone: 480/314-1320 * FAX: 480/661-7028I   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 02 May 2002 07:37:36 -0400 2 From: rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger)1 Subject: Re: VMS Bigots Unite To Form New CompanygK Message-ID: <rdeininger-0205020737370001@1cust205.tnt1.nashua.nh.da.uu.net>n  ; In article <3CD09B06.1005BA2C@fsi.net>, "David J. Dachtera"S <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote:  K >> If anyone has proposals to boost VMS in specific ways that are likely to L >> lead to additional $$$, he should start a serious discussion with Compaq. >w, >That's been tried. They're not interested.   D I know some people at Compaq ARE interested.  The previous effort(s)? likely bumped into the wrong people.  Compaq is big and doesn'taD communicate well -- I don't think that is really news in this forum.   >Perhaps TCFKAHP (the companyaG >formerly known as HP) will be more receptive. We should give them somedG >time to settle in once the dust settles from the 1200 staff cuts, thenk. >consider a new strategy for approaching them.  E If you want to do something new and exciting (or old and exciting) inoG VMS-land, you probably ought to talk to VMS people within the company. f9 Not some random bunch of executive types who see VMS as ac' hard-to-understand part of the company.i  I >With the state VMS is in, and with the corporate carnage we are about toe< >witness, "consideration" is much too little, much too late.  G My point is that no company is going to persue every idea -- they don'tfB have the staff-hours to do that.  Someone is always deciding whichD projects are worth working on now, and which should be put off untilA later, or maybe never.  But opportunities that VMS management ando8 marketing folks never hear about will NOT get attention.   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 02 May 2002 15:37:45 GMT * From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>1 Subject: Re: VMS Bigots Unite To Form New CompanylA Message-ID: <d3dA8.26958$Ii2.2365748@bin2.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>,  ? "Robert Deininger" <rdeininger@mindspring.com> wrote in message.E news:rdeininger-0205020737370001@1cust205.tnt1.nashua.nh.da.uu.net...e   ...e   > The previous effort(s)& > likely bumped into the wrong people.  I You mean, like Capellas.  Have to agree, but it's not exactly clear where ! you go when you strike out there.n   ...i  G > If you want to do something new and exciting (or old and exciting) in H > VMS-land, you probably ought to talk to VMS people within the company.  I You mean, like Marcello (and his staff), back when his responsibility was < all of VMS, and only VMS?  Yeah, that's exactly what we did.   Any more bright ideas?   - bill   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 2 May 2002 09:56:32 +01001 From: "Lock Horsburgh" <lock@lohmacs.fsnet.co.uk>4 Subject: Re: VMS SCAN producth/ Message-ID: <aaqv1c$rh9$1@newsg2.svr.pol.co.uk>O  : "Larry Kilgallen" <Kilgallen@SpamCop.net> wrote in message- news:IWkPI34M0k5F@eisner.encompasserve.org...a; > In article <3CCF7CEF.7060905@tsoft-inc.com>, David Froblef <davef@tsoft-inc.com> writes:s > > ualski wrote:  > > B > >> My favorite is PCCTS (Perdue Compiler Construction Tool Set).6 > >> I didn't check this link but it might still work:+ > >> http://www.ece.purdue.edu/~hankd/PCCTS- > >> > >> Hope this helps.  > >> > >> -- Aaron Sliwinski1 > >> > >> Lock Horsburgh wrote: > >>I > >>>Once upon a time we had a DEC product called SCAN, which was used toV parsecJ > >>>input text and generate different outputs - like code generation, and+ > >>>language translations from Basic to C.c > >a > >eG > > This product would be more helpful if the translation was from C toa Basic. > > . > > Let the religous language wars begin.  :-) >iE > There is no benefit for a particular language if it is coded in thetD > foreign style of some other language.  That would be the result ofF > performing such translations with SCAN.  Thus it is not particularlyF > useful except for the pathelogically trivial case of not having some > particular compiler license.  @ There is a lot of benefit if somebody wants to pay money for it.  H (The results of Basic to C translation were indeed ugly, but compiled onL different C compilers on different machines better than VAX Basic would have  done. Portability was the goal.)   Lock.      ---s& Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.: Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).? Version: 6.0.336 / Virus Database: 188 - Release Date: 12/03/02d   ------------------------------   Date: 2 May 2002 08:02:13 -0500s- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)  Subject: Re: VMS SCAN productn3 Message-ID: <IoRaetPB6bxP@eisner.encompasserve.org>t  V In article <3CD013D0.1020704@compaq.com>, John Reagan <john.reagan@compaq.com> writes:  H > I don't think documenting the "cross-linker" was a good idea.  It has E > limited value.  I can't imagine this being carried over to Itanium.j  F    What we really wanted was a cross compiler to go with it.  It wouldC    have been especially usefull to have a cross compiler for Ada 83hC    since that's the most CPU intensive thing one of our VAX's does,-6    and the resulting code is tied to a DRQ3B on a VAX.  =    Someone suggested we try VESTing the compiler, but the AdamB    compilation system is fairly complex, and yes, we would have to@    find a place to keep all those VAX shareable image libraries.&    Besides, we've got real work to do.  H    IIRC gcc generally provides cross compilation to it's many targets.  G    gcc and link/vax run on an Alpha may be the fastest way to generate      a program for your VAX.          ------------------------------   Date: 2 May 2002 08:03:20 -0500h- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)  Subject: Re: VMS SCAN producta3 Message-ID: <fIt1cbdOnMjq@eisner.encompasserve.org>i  n In article <T8Yz8.25$J%1.506980@cacnews.cac.cpqcorp.net>, hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) writes: >  >   VAX SCAN is dead./ >   H    Is dead does not necessarily mean should be dead.  Kudos to the folks-    who are trying to come up with Alpha SCAN.d   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 02 May 2002 18:34:27 +0400 4 From: "Ruslan R. Laishev" <laishev@smtp.deltatel.ru> Subject: Re: VMS SCAN productb0 Message-ID: <3CD14E73.B16EEB7D@smtp.deltatel.ru>  
 Hello Bob!     Bob Koehler wrote: > p > In article <T8Yz8.25$J%1.506980@cacnews.cac.cpqcorp.net>, hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) writes: > >r > >   VAX SCAN is dead.t > >  > J >    Is dead does not necessarily mean should be dead.  Kudos to the folks/ >    who are trying to come up with Alpha SCAN.t9 	They have tried to port SCAN to Alpha ?! Any reference ?n   -- s Cheers, Ruslan.,D +---------------------pure personal opinion------------------------+;       RADIUS Server for OpenVMS project - www.radiusvms.com 8         vms-isps@dls.net - Forum for ISP running OpenVMS*                  Mobile: +7 (901) 971-3222A    TKD (WTF) in Russia, St.-Petersburg - www.TaeKwonDo-WTF.SPb.RUq;      http://starlet.deltatel.ru/~laishev/public_pgp_key.txtt   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 02 May 2002 14:40:10 GMTt- From: goathunter@goatley.com (Hunter Goatley)  Subject: Re: VMS SCAN producti0 Message-ID: <3cd14f8c.80770611@news.process.com>  7 On Thu, 02 May 2002 18:34:27 +0400, "Ruslan R. Laishev" ! <laishev@smtp.deltatel.ru> wrote:t   > >   VAX SCAN is dead.a >> > >> iK >>    Is dead does not necessarily mean should be dead.  Kudos to the folks 0 >>    who are trying to come up with Alpha SCAN.: >	They have tried to port SCAN to Alpha ?! Any reference ?  G In another thread on comp.os.vms with subject "ALPHASCAN," someone fromrI SRI (the CHARON-VAX people) posted saying that they're working on portings it from VAX to Alpha.l   Hunter ------9 Hunter Goatley, Process Software, http://www.process.com/n8 goathunter@goatley.com    http://www.goatley.com/hunter/< New Robert R. McCammon site: http://www.RobertRMcCammon.com/   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 02 May 2002 08:40:02 +0200 9 From: Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com>i Subject: Re: VMSTARl' Message-ID: <3CD0DF42.F659DC2C@aaa.com>s  1 Have you tried the /LIST and/or /FORCE switches ?P   Jan-Erik Sderholm.o   Bernard Schluep wrote: > A > Periodically, I receive a TAR file generated on an Unix system.n- > It contains a text file and some TIF files.MN > When I try to decompress it with VMSTAR 3.4-1, I receive only the text file, > the others are not extracted.  >c   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 2 May 2002 09:05:44 +02004 From: "Bernard Schluep" <bernard.schluep@azisoft.ch> Subject: Re: VMSTARn* Message-ID: <aaqp16$il7$1@rex.ip-plus.net>   Yes, with the same result.  3 "Jan-Erik Sderholm" <aaa@aaa.com> wrote in message ! news:3CD0DF42.F659DC2C@aaa.com...d3 > Have you tried the /LIST and/or /FORCE switches ?i >s > Jan-Erik Sderholm.. >u > Bernard Schluep wrote: > >rC > > Periodically, I receive a TAR file generated on an Unix system.e/ > > It contains a text file and some TIF files. J > > When I try to decompress it with VMSTAR 3.4-1, I receive only the text file,I! > > the others are not extracted.v > >o   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 02 May 2002 19:13:47 +0010 % From: paddy.o'brien@zzz.tg.nsw.gov.auC Subject: Re: VMSTARi5 Message-ID: <01KH9HGT88R6000926@tgmail.tg.nsw.gov.au>B   Bernard,  @ >Periodically, I receive a TAR file generated on an Unix system., >It contains a text file and some TIF files.M >When I try to decompress it with VMSTAR 3.4-1, I receive only the text file,  >the others are not extracted. >iK >If I open this TAR on a PC with PowerArchiver and I save it as ZIP file, I M >could extract all files on OpenVMS with unzip, but this way is not clean forb >me.  N In my experience, VMSTAR does an excellent job.  Obtained off Hoff's freeware K CD or (I believe) Hunter Goatley's site.  I've had it for so many years, I  < forget which, but these are the best for excellent freeware.   Regards, Paddy   ------------------------------   Date: 2 May 2002 07:55:35 -0700 ) From: P.Young@unsw.EDU.AU (Patrick Young)  Subject: Re: VMSTARi< Message-ID: <55f85d77.0205020655.68a27c0@posting.google.com>  f "Bernard Schluep" <bernard.schluep@azisoft.ch> wrote in message news:<aaqkb8$h6d$1@rex.ip-plus.net>...A > Periodically, I receive a TAR file generated on an Unix system. - > It contains a text file and some TIF files.>N > When I try to decompress it with VMSTAR 3.4-1, I receive only the text file, > the others are not extracted.s >   A That release of VMSTAR does not know about file/path names longern@ than 100 characters (and will stop processing the archive when a@ directory name longer than 100 characters is found and stored in6 the tar header prefix field with no filename present).  > Sorry that I've been too slow on this, however I added the GNU@ LONGLINK support to VMSTAR a couple of months back (unreleased),B but did not get back to it until recently. I've also added supportB for the prefix field in the TAR header for POSIX archive with path names up to 256 characters.r  > I'm also in the middle of increasing the maximum file size for; files in the archive to break the "unsigned int" byte count:* limit (Alpha, and I expect Itanium, only).  A Folks with problems with the current VMSTAR, and with an interestsB in it, should email me offline to become beta testers for the next release.   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 02 May 2002 14:28:55 GMT+# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>a$ Subject: Re: Whining about HPS TimesF Message-ID: <H2cA8.7062$zk1.7033@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>  J I was going to refrain from posting again on this topic in the interest ofE letting the petty personal attacks die down, however when David J. D.AF brought up the issue of free speech I felt that I had to weigh in once again.  H It seems to me that many of those who have been posting personal attacksG towards certain individuals are certainly ill-mannered and what I wouldoJ consider to be boors - certainly not the type of people I'd want to inviteH to dinner or a cocktail party, and most probably those whom I'd have the( greatest reluctance doing business with.  L Those doing the personal attacking fail to distinguish legitimate complaintsC individuals have with corporations and their actions (through theirnJ legitimate corporate representatives), and instead turn their vitriol uponB those who express themselves and their frustrations with corporate ineptitude.   B This seemingly constant to-and-fro tossing of insults is childish,5 non-professional, and reflects badly on all involved.s    G ( I don't mean you David in what follows - this is addressed in the 3rdpD person to all those who partake in the foregoing insulting behavior)  L You may not like what somebody has written, and that's your prerogative. YouI may not like the tone in which something is written, and that too is youriH prerogative. However when you attack and insult individuals you are onlyH displaying your own ignorance. Those of you who regularly engage in suchC behavior know who you are, and so do all those who read your posts.t  ; Mea culpa, from time-to-time. And I apologize for that too.i      < "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote in message! news:3CD0A1A4.ECA54544@fsi.net...  > Jim Agnew wrote: > >  > > "David J. Dachtera" wrote: > > >h6 > > > John@helferlein.net, Jones@helferlein.net wrote: > > E > > > > I got mine.  Too bad you didn't get yours.  Maybe bad karhma?  > > >w= > > > Maybe folks should stop whining about people whining...  > > >i > >a  > > Qua'Pla!!!!!!!!  Amen, Bro!! >dJ > He'll likely post again whining about me whining about him whining about+ > people whining about (fill in the blank).e >i5 > ...which might also be classified as "whining", no?t >c+ > WTF ever happened to free speech, anyway?T >a > -- > David J. Dachterao > dba DJE Systemsn > http://www.djesys.com/ >e* > Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page:! > http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/l   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 02 May 2002 14:33:12 GMTe# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>i$ Subject: Re: Whining about HPS TimesF Message-ID: <I6cA8.7119$zk1.4950@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>  L I might add that there is a great deal of difference between comments posted" in jest and those posted in spite.    . "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> wrote in message@ news:H2cA8.7062$zk1.7033@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com...L > I was going to refrain from posting again on this topic in the interest ofG > letting the petty personal attacks die down, however when David J. D.aH > brought up the issue of free speech I felt that I had to weigh in once > again. >eJ > It seems to me that many of those who have been posting personal attacksI > towards certain individuals are certainly ill-mannered and what I would L > consider to be boors - certainly not the type of people I'd want to inviteJ > to dinner or a cocktail party, and most probably those whom I'd have the* > greatest reluctance doing business with. >sC > Those doing the personal attacking fail to distinguish legitimater
 complaintsE > individuals have with corporations and their actions (through theireL > legitimate corporate representatives), and instead turn their vitriol uponD > those who express themselves and their frustrations with corporate
 > ineptitude.n >vD > This seemingly constant to-and-fro tossing of insults is childish,7 > non-professional, and reflects badly on all involved.g >, > I > ( I don't mean you David in what follows - this is addressed in the 3rdrF > person to all those who partake in the foregoing insulting behavior) > J > You may not like what somebody has written, and that's your prerogative. YoueK > may not like the tone in which something is written, and that too is youriJ > prerogative. However when you attack and insult individuals you are onlyJ > displaying your own ignorance. Those of you who regularly engage in suchE > behavior know who you are, and so do all those who read your posts.V >n= > Mea culpa, from time-to-time. And I apologize for that too.  >u >a >a> > "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote in message# > news:3CD0A1A4.ECA54544@fsi.net...  > > Jim Agnew wrote: > > >r  > > > "David J. Dachtera" wrote: > > > >48 > > > > John@helferlein.net, Jones@helferlein.net wrote: > > >aG > > > > > I got mine.  Too bad you didn't get yours.  Maybe bad karhma?) > > > >:? > > > > Maybe folks should stop whining about people whining...e > > > >7 > > >1" > > > Qua'Pla!!!!!!!!  Amen, Bro!! > >nL > > He'll likely post again whining about me whining about him whining about- > > people whining about (fill in the blank).o > >M7 > > ...which might also be classified as "whining", no?o > >$- > > WTF ever happened to free speech, anyway?m > >  > > -- > > David J. Dachtera  > > dba DJE Systems  > > http://www.djesys.com/ > >t, > > Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page:# > > http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/i >n >o   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 02 May 2002 09:47:13 GMTu, From: "Bob Knowles" <bob.knowles@compaq.com> Subject: Re: Wither ALL-IN-1 ?8 Message-ID: <BW7A8.5$4d2.151690@cacnews.cac.cpqcorp.net>  , This is a multi-part message in MIME format.  + ------=_NextPart_000_000D_01C1F1C6.018EA9F0. Content-Type: text/plain;h 	charset="iso-8859-1"r+ Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printabley  6 I've been asked to post this on behalf of a colleague:  C Thank you for your observations about Office Server and VMSmail.=20dE ALL-IN-1/Office Server is an application and not middleware. As you =rJ rightly comment the vast majority of middleware is being ported to IA-64 =. including Enterprise Directory (wka X.500).=20  F The VMS organisation has spoken with many customers across the globe =H regarding the non-port of Office Server and a vanishingly small number =I have a problem with this decision. The fact that Office Server on Alpha = G EV79 will still outperform IA-64 through the middle of the decade and =tI will continue to be supported on the latest VMS releases, satisfies the =4J needs of the vast majority of customers. Office Server is not being made =F redundant, it is simply coming to the end of its life-cycle after 20 =+ years of fantastic success in every metric.<  H As you correctly suggest, PMDF on IA-64 will perform most of the tasks =I of Office Server with the integral smtp connection and Process Software =)C have committed to the port. We initially considered a native smtp = J implementation because of customer concerns about the ability of Process =F Software to deliver a comparable service to Innosoft and it is clear =E they have stepped up to the plate and are providing exellent support.p   Regards,  3 Dave Holt, Office Server Product Management, Compaqb  I I'm not sure that JF meant to suggest that ALL-IN-1 was middleware, but =c# I'm posting Dave's response anyway.d   b   < "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message =& news:3CCE141C.EF0442DD@videotron.ca...D > I recently got a newsletter from the All-in-1 office server group. >=20D > They have done work on porting their IMAP server to VMS-MAIL, to =	 appear in ( > TCPIP Services 5.3 to be available Q2. >=20B > They have abandonned plans to make Office Server/All-IN-1 deal =
 directly withvC > SMTP mail, giving the excuse that PMDF-MTA does teh job already =e (anyone whorF > has looked at the costs of this solution will simply use PMDF only =
 since onceI > you get PMDF with enough bells and whistles to interface with A1, you =s don't  > need ALL-IN-1 anymore. >=20 > They also have text such as ::I > "Office server will continue to be available and supported on OpenVMS =s VAX anda# > Alpha for the foreseable future".f >=20= > No mention of IA64 in the newsletter at all. I take it thatsJ > Office-Server/ALL-IN-1 has officially been made redundant and won't be = ported1 > to IA64, or is that still under consideration ?i >=20J > Interesting that all the underlying middleware (except message router, = of= > course) has been announced to move to IA64, but not allin1.T >=20F > Looks like Compaq is handing all messaging to Process's PMDF or to = Microsoft's Exchange.  >=20H > Could the VMS engineers make any comments on the future of VMSmail ? =	 Would any F > enhgancements be envisaged, especially with respect to handling fo = MIME , > multiple attachements etc ?s  + ------=_NextPart_000_000D_01C1F1C6.018EA9F0r Content-Type: text/html; 	charset="iso-8859-1" + Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printableh  > <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD>7 <META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =: charset=3Diso-8859-1">9 <META content=3D"MSHTML 5.50.4522.1800" name=3DGENERATOR>- <STYLE></STYLE>  </HEAD>0 <BODY>I <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I've been asked to post this on behalf =A of a=20n colleague:</FONT></DIV>x4 <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>J <DIV><FONT face=3DCourier size=3D2>Thank you for your observations about =	 Office=20u! Server and VMSmail. </FONT></DIV>o <DIV> ? <P><FONT face=3DCourier size=3D2>ALL-IN-1/Office Server is an =e application and not=20G middleware. As you rightly comment the vast majority of middleware is =  being=20G ported to IA-64 including Enterprise Directory (wka X.500). </FONT></P>oG <P><FONT face=3DCourier size=3D2>The VMS organisation has spoken with =  many customers=20o@ across the globe regarding the non-port of Office Server and a = vanishingly small=20J number have a problem with this decision. The fact that Office Server on = Alpha=20G EV79 will still outperform IA-64 through the middle of the decade and =. will=20RJ continue to be supported on the latest VMS releases, satisfies the needs =	 of the=20 H vast majority of customers. Office Server is not being made redundant, = it is=20H simply coming to the end of its life-cycle after 20 years of fantastic =
 success=20 in every metric.</FONT></P>eJ <P><FONT face=3DCourier size=3D2>As you correctly suggest, PMDF on IA-64 = will=20eC perform most of the tasks of Office Server with the integral smtp =o connection and=20cH Process Software have committed to the port. We initially considered a =	 native=20 G smtp implementation because of customer concerns about the ability of =o
 Process=20F Software to deliver a comparable service to Innosoft and it is clear = they have=20F stepped up to the plate and are providing exellent support.</FONT></P>4 <P><FONT face=3DCourier size=3D2>Regards,</FONT></P>C <P><FONT face=3DCourier size=3D2>Dave Holt, Office Server Product =e Management,=20 Compaq</FONT></P>pF <P><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I'm not sure that JF meant to suggest = that ALL-IN-1=20G was middleware, but&nbsp;I'm posting Dave's response anyway.</FONT></P> 1 <P><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>b</FONT></P></DIV>w< <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>"JF Mezei" &lt;</FONT><A=20B href=3D"mailto:jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca"><FONT face=3DArial=20D size=3D2>jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca</FONT></A><FONT face=3DArial = size=3D2>&gt; wrote=20I in message </FONT><A href=3D"news:3CCE141C.EF0442DD@videotron.ca"><FONT =  face=3DArial=20:> size=3D2>news:3CCE141C.EF0442DD@videotron.ca</FONT></A><FONT = face=3DArial=20bJ size=3D2>...</FONT></DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>&gt; I recently got = a newsletter=20-H from the All-in-1 office server group.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; They have done =
 work on=20C porting their IMAP server to VMS-MAIL, to appear in<BR>&gt; TCPIP =6 Services 5.3=20oI to be available Q2.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; They have abandonned plans to make =t	 Office=20rI Server/All-IN-1 deal directly with<BR>&gt; SMTP mail, giving the excuse =n that=20yE PMDF-MTA does teh job already (anyone who<BR>&gt; has looked at the =e costs of=20aI this solution will simply use PMDF only since once<BR>&gt; you get PMDF =o with=20aH enough bells and whistles to interface with A1, you don't<BR>&gt; need = ALL-IN-1=20oI anymore.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; They also have text such as :<BR>&gt; "Office =t	 server=20 H will continue to be available and supported on OpenVMS VAX and<BR>&gt; = Alpha for=20D the foreseable future".<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; No mention of IA64 in the = newsletter at=20H all. I take it that<BR>&gt; Office-Server/ALL-IN-1 has officially been = made=20mH redundant and won't be ported<BR>&gt; to IA64, or is that still under=20F consideration ?<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Interesting that all the underlying =
 middleware=20sJ (except message router, of<BR>&gt; course) has been announced to move to = IA64,=20C but not allin1.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Looks like Compaq is handing all =f messaging to=20fG Process's PMDF or to Microsoft's Exchange.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Could the =h VMS=20J engineers make any comments on the future of VMSmail ? Would any<BR>&gt; =  J enhgancements be envisaged, especially with respect to handling fo MIME=20: ,<BR>&gt; multiple attachements etc ?</FONT></BODY></HTML>  - ------=_NextPart_000_000D_01C1F1C6.018EA9F0--l   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 02 May 2002 06:56:09 -04006- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>a Subject: Re: Wither ALL-IN-1 ?, Message-ID: <3CD11B23.9C695F44@videotron.ca>   > Bob Knowles wrote:M > regarding the non-port of Office Server and a vanishingly small number havet > a problem with this decision.h  D It is a sad piece of news. Does the white house still use ALL-IN-1 ?  K It is of no surprise of course, with Compaq and HP (and Palmer before them)-B being such good slaves to Microsoft. I still remember the originalJ announcement of the port of Office Server to Windows-NT and Unix which wasN followed a week or two later by Palmer's announcement that Digital had decidedH to give Gates a nice gift and not onlyt adopt exchange but also drop the# porting of All-in-1 to NT and Unix.   0 > The fact that Office Server on Alpha EV79 willN > still outperform IA-64 through the middle of the decade and will continue to* > be supported on the latest VMS releases,  K Is there an official "last version", or will there be continued developmentTN (perhaps are reduced speed) on Office-Server on Alpha ? Or will it become like0 FMS, just tested to run on the latest hardware ?  M While I have your attention, is there any way to get the documentation on thedN undocumented FMS calls that A1 uses to get a form's information (in particular/ field information and form display information):  K For instance, if I want to develop an application which will mimic ALL-IN-1aL DASB access to indexed files, those routines are needed, but not included in the FMS documentation.   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 02 May 2002 15:44:15 GMTa, From: "Bob Knowles" <bob.knowles@compaq.com> Subject: Re: Wither ALL-IN-1 ?9 Message-ID: <j9dA8.12$In2.435250@cacnews.cac.cpqcorp.net>t  : "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message& news:3CD11B23.9C695F44@videotron.ca... > > Bob Knowles wrote:J > > regarding the non-port of Office Server and a vanishingly small number have! > > a problem with this decision.i > F > It is a sad piece of news. Does the white house still use ALL-IN-1 ?   Yes, but not exclusively.K   .o .t .MA > Is there an official "last version", or will there be continued  developmentnK > (perhaps are reduced speed) on Office-Server on Alpha ? Or will it becomeX like2 > FMS, just tested to run on the latest hardware ?  E V6.1 is the last version that anyone's admitting to, but then again IcK remember the brou-ha-ha about Message Router  V3.3  being the "last", untiliK someone noticed the Y2K problem and we released V3.5 (which really _is_ thesJ last). There are plans for continued work on Office Server, more than just+ testing on new hardware, but nothing major.e  K > While I have your attention, is there any way to get the documentation on: theWE > undocumented FMS calls that A1 uses to get a form's information (ins
 particular1 > field information and form display information)g > D > For instance, if I want to develop an application which will mimic ALL-IN-1K > DASB access to indexed files, those routines are needed, but not includeda in > the FMS documentation.  J I'll refer this question to the developer who is doing the Itanium port ofK FMS - if anyone knows of any unsupported but useful documentation, he will.r   be   ------------------------------  + Date: Thu, 02 May 2002 09:09:41 +0100 (MET)t9 From: Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>e? Subject: Re: ZIP strangeness (search list as part of file spec)t; Message-ID: <01KH8WAYEBPE8ZG5L9@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>   F > When I tested this, it always goes to the last element of the search > list.   @ Right.  But this is contrary to the normal VMS behaviour, right?  @ > That said, I didn't test it with a search list which points to > non-existant paths.o   Neither did I.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 02 May 2002 11:16:40 +0100d- From: Roy Omond <Roy.Omond@BlueBubble.UK.Com>s Subject: Re: ZTDRIVER.EXE 1 Message-ID: <3CD11208.AD780E64@BlueBubble.UK.Com>i   Syltrem wrote:  $ > Anyone knows what ZTDRIVER.EXE is? >wM > I have a client that says he gets a "file not found" on this one when doingi > SYSGEN> AUTOCONFIGURE ALLs >uN > We're at a minimum boot right now. All the devices we need configure ok, and4 > we are in the process of restoring a damaged disk.  : ZTDRIVER was also the name adopted by Wolfgang Moeller forA his DECnet-served remote tape driver.  Of course, given the abovel, it's unlikely to be this.  Just for info ...  	 Roy Omondp Blue Bubble Ltd.   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 2 May 2002 09:07:55 -04000 From: "Syltrem" <syltremspammenot@videotron.com> Subject: Re: ZTDRIVER.EXEe5 Message-ID: <9RaA8.10985$a04.49427@tor-nn1.netcom.ca>u   OK OK OK> I forgot to give OS version, machine type, color and scent :-|  I Mind me, I thought I would get a simple answer like "ZTDRIVER is a driverBJ for a XYZ model 64 platter CD changer" or something. Then knowing I DO NOTH have this device, I could just have tried to tell VMS not to look for it anymore.I Everything that needs to work on this system does work properly (not thatw( the bad disk has been replaced that is).  $ It`s a VAX 4100 running OpenVMS 7.1.   Hoff suggested:AE On V6.0 and later OpenVMS VAX  releases, load DECnet-Plus and use the-# optionally-configured WANDD supporth  K Now do I want to do this (I mean, what is WANDD all about and do I need it): ?i5 Is there any simpler way to having the error go away.n   Thanks!.   --   SyltremrI http://pages.infinit.net/syltrem (OpenVMS related web site - en franais)e> To reply to myself directly, remove .spammenot from my address  J "Roy Omond" <Roy.Omond@BlueBubble.UK.Com> a crit dans le message de news:& 3CD11208.AD780E64@BlueBubble.UK.Com... > Syltrem wrote: > & > > Anyone knows what ZTDRIVER.EXE is? > >tI > > I have a client that says he gets a "file not found" on this one whenh doinge > > SYSGEN> AUTOCONFIGURE ALLa > >aL > > We're at a minimum boot right now. All the devices we need configure ok, and 6 > > we are in the process of restoring a damaged disk. > < > ZTDRIVER was also the name adopted by Wolfgang Moeller forC > his DECnet-served remote tape driver.  Of course, given the above . > it's unlikely to be this.  Just for info ... >' > Roy Omond  > Blue Bubble Ltd. >n   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 02 May 2002 15:58:12 +0100i4 From: John Laird <john@laird-towers.freeserve.co.uk> Subject: Re: ZTDRIVER.EXEs8 Message-ID: <jlk2du0nrjsapuu22l5ihhsi0u2elig6hj@4ax.com>  , On Thu, 2 May 2002 09:07:55 -0400, "Syltrem"' <syltremspammenot@videotron.com> wrote:n  L >Now do I want to do this (I mean, what is WANDD all about and do I need it) >?  I It's the WAN Device Driver kit.  The DSW boards provided synchronous (X25dL etc) or asynchronous (extra terminal) capabilities, or sometimes both on oneJ board.  You needed WANDD to talk any synchronous protocols to suitable WANL equipment, CTI etc.  The async stuff works with built-in terminal drivers to yield TXAn ports.   6 >Is there any simpler way to having the error go away.  I Take the board out :-)  (Or have a look at the help in SYSGEN and perhapsoD the startup procedures pertaining to devices to be excluded from the' implicit autoconfiguration on startup).      	John    ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2002.242 ************************