1 INFO-VAX	Fri, 03 May 2002	Volume 2002 : Issue 244       Contents: Re: $QIO and SYSPRV  Re: $QIO and SYSPRV  Re: (remaining) GBLPAGFIL  Re: (remaining) GBLPAGFIL # RE: 6.2/7.3 Cluster - Advice Sought  RE: Adding drives to an HSZ80 9 Re: AMD To Announce Microsoft Support For New Chip Family 9 Re: AMD To Announce Microsoft Support For New Chip Family & Re: Anticipating the HP court decision$ ASTs and privs. Was: $QIO and SYSPRV( Re: ASTs and privs. Was: $QIO and SYSPRV6 Re: Can I delete those *.EXE_OLD files on system disk?% Capellas alienates HP dealers already 3 Re: Capellas: Linux, Windows Will 'Eviscerate' Unix 3 Re: Capellas: Linux, Windows Will 'Eviscerate' Unix 3 Re: Capellas: Linux, Windows Will 'Eviscerate' Unix 3 RE: Capellas: Linux, Windows Will 'Eviscerate' Unix 3 Re: Capellas: Linux, Windows Will 'Eviscerate' Unix 3 Re: Capellas: Linux, Windows Will 'Eviscerate' Unix 3 Re: Capellas: Linux, Windows Will 'Eviscerate' Unix & Re: capture single keystroke from DCL?& Re: capture single keystroke from DCL?& Re: capture single keystroke from DCL?& Re: capture single keystroke from DCL?& Re: capture single keystroke from DCL? Cliff Stoll  Re: Cliff Stoll 4 CRN: Capellas: Linux, Windows Will 'Eviscerate' Unix8 Re: CRN: Capellas: Linux, Windows Will 'Eviscerate' Unix4 CRN: Capellas: Linux, Windows Will 'Eviscerate' Unix8 Re: CRN: Capellas: Linux, Windows Will 'Eviscerate' Unix8 Re: CRN: Capellas: Linux, Windows Will 'Eviscerate' Unix  Re: DCPS Help Required.......... Re: Deathbed confession? Re: Deathbed confession? Re: Deathbed confession? Re: Deathbed confession? Re: Deathbed confession? Re: Deathbed confession? DECserver 100 and reverse LAT?" RE: DECserver 100 and reverse LAT?: Re: DECUS/EncompassUS Survey -- no longer assuming WindowsF Re: Does anyone have example code for finding the BG device associated  dvdwrite for openvms coming soon Re: EDT or EVE Re: EDT or EVE  Re: Fix for EDT emulation in EVE  Re: Fix for EDT emulation in EVE  Re: Fix for EDT emulation in EVE Re: HP vote cleared  I was right again! Re: I was right again!0 Re: Inquirer even says Alpha in Itanium in 2005! IT'S A JOKE, FOLKS!!!!! / Re: Itanium 2 hits ... Itanium 3 will be Alpha! / Re: Itanium 2 hits ... Itanium 3 will be Alpha! / Re: Itanium 2 hits ... Itanium 3 will be Alpha! / Re: Itanium 2 hits ... Itanium 3 will be Alpha! / Re: Itanium 2 hits ... Itanium 3 will be Alpha!  Re: Itanium troubles Re: Itanium troubles1 Re: Mails with long lines (> 255 bytes) truncated 1 Re: Mails with long lines (> 255 bytes) truncated P Memo:  Re: Does anyone have example code for finding the BG device associated wiD Microsoft (was: RE: Capellas: Linux, Windows Will 'Eviscerate' Unix)H Re: Microsoft (was: RE: Capellas: Linux, Windows Will 'Eviscerate' Unix)H Re: Microsoft (was: RE: Capellas: Linux, Windows Will 'Eviscerate' Unix)H Re: Microsoft (was: RE: Capellas: Linux, Windows Will 'Eviscerate' Unix)/ MOZ T1: Could not initialize security component 3 Re: MOZ T1: Could not initialize security component 3 Re: MOZ T1: Could not initialize security component  Re: MTI Stingray Documentation Re: New to VAX Re: New to VAX Re: New to VAX Re: Off Topic - Humo(u)r... 5 Ot: Smells was (RE: UK folks this might interest you) N Re: OT:Sex/births was (DECUS/EncompassUS Survey -- no longer assuming Windows) Positive news... Re: Positive news... Re: Positive news...= Predictions, was: Re: Some more words of wisdom from Capellas A Re: Predictions, was: Re: Some more words of wisdom from Capellas A Re: Predictions, was: Re: Some more words of wisdom from Capellas A Re: Predictions, was: Re: Some more words of wisdom from Capellas  Re: Purify or equiv. on OpenVMS  Re: Purify or equiv. on OpenVMS P Re: put up or shut up (was: RE: AMD To Announce Microsoft Support For New Chip FP Re: put up or shut up (was: RE: AMD To Announce Microsoft Support For New Chip FP Re: put up or shut up (was: RE: AMD To Announce Microsoft Support For New Chip FP Re: put up or shut up (was: RE: AMD To Announce Microsoft Support For New Chip FP Re: put up or shut up (was: RE: AMD To Announce Microsoft Support For New Chip FP Re: put up or shut up (was: RE: AMD To Announce Microsoft Support For New Chip F Re: Read it and weep Andrew! Re: Read it and weep Andrew! Re: Read it and weep Andrew!9 Re: Reducing size of incremental backup - will this work? 9 Re: Reducing size of incremental backup - will this work? , Re: removing extra carriage return/line feed Revisionist history  SIMH 2.9-8 (Re: SIMH 2.9-7) ' Re: SKC Morphs Again... We're Now SKHPC ' Re: SKC Morphs Again... We're Now SKHPC ' Re: SKC Morphs Again... We're Now SKHPC ' Some more words of wisdom from Capellas + Re: Some more words of wisdom from Capellas + Re: Some more words of wisdom from Capellas + Re: Some more words of wisdom from Capellas + RE: Some more words of wisdom from Capellas  Re: tape problems #2 Re: tape problems #2P Re: The 'tone' of c.o.v. (was Re: Prediction:  VMS lives, merger or no  merger!)O Re: The 'tone' of c.o.v. (was Re: Prediction:  VMS lives, merger or no merger!) 8 Re: Top Ten reasons why we're still waiting for McKinley8 Re: Top Ten reasons why we're still waiting for McKinley8 Re: Top Ten reasons why we're still waiting for McKinley$ Re: UK folks this might interest you$ Re: UK folks this might interest you$ Re: UK folks this might interest you& Re: VAX decommissioning/secure HD wipe* Re: VAXstation 4000 90 and serial console? virtual IO cache Re: virtual IO cache Re: virtual IO cache" Re: VMS 6.2 file ownership problem" Re: VMS 6.2 file ownership problem
 Re: VMSTAR
 Re: VMSTAR' Re: Web based/encrypted printing (O.T.) ' Re: What does "affordable" mean to you? ' Re: What does "affordable" mean to you?  Re: Wither ALL-IN-1 ?  Re: You can't beat the price...   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------    Date: 03 May 2002 12:41:08 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com> Subject: Re: $QIO and SYSPRV- Message-ID: <871yctyhaz.fsf@prep.synonet.com>   1 Mark Daniel <Mark.Daniel@wasd.vsm.com.au> writes:   C > There are none in this example.  It SYS$CREATE _CIFs a file using @ > ownership and protections inherited from the parent directory,E > reads/write/updates (as required by the SYS$CREATE status returned) D > a counter quadword, and then closes it again.  The _DLT only occur% > for a small (but necessary) subset.   H Why not create them as Tempories Marked For Delete? No parent directory,J and they orange smoke :) when you close them. OR create them as a TMP, and1 keep the FID till you need to mark it for delete.    --  < Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda. @                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 3 May 2002 10:55:09 -0400; From: "Brian Tillman" <tillman_brian@notnoone.notnohow.com>  Subject: Re: $QIO and SYSPRV" Message-ID: <3cd2a558@news.si.com>  4 >Why not create them as Tempories Marked For Delete?  L One gets into quota issues with this.  No quota on the disk means no opening	 the file.  --A Brian Tillman                   Internet: tillman_brian at si.com A Smiths Aerospace                          tillman at swdev.si.com = 3290 Patterson Ave. SE, MS      Addresses modified to prevent < Grand Rapids, MI 49512-1991     SPAM.  Replace "at" with "@"8        This opinion doesn't represent that of my company   ------------------------------   Date: 3 May 2002 00:21:15 -0700 < From: labadie_g@decus.fr (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Labadie_G=E9rard?=)" Subject: Re: (remaining) GBLPAGFIL= Message-ID: <b94065a6.0205022321.11a16a5f@posting.google.com>    Hello   K Here is a program that looks regularly to that place and defines a logical  , min_gblpagfil, that will be the min reached.   Regards    Grard   #include <stdio.h> #include <stsdef.h>  #include <string.h>  #include <signal.h>  #include <descrip.h>   int Mingb = 0;* $DESCRIPTOR(TblNameD, "LNM$SYSTEM_TABLE");' $DESCRIPTOR(LogNameD, "MIN_GBLPAGFIL");  char Value[32];  $DESCRIPTOR(LogValD, Value);   globalref int mmg$gl_gblpagfil;    main() {   int s;  "   Mingb = mmg$gl_gblpagfil + 1000;   for (;;) {#     if (Mingb > mmg$gl_gblpagfil) {        Mingb = mmg$gl_gblpagfil; "       sprintf(Value, "%d", Mingb);+       LogValD.dsc$w_length = strlen(Value); :       s = lib$set_logical(&LogNameD, &LogValD, &TblNameD);,       if (! $VMS_STATUS_SUCCESS(s)) exit(s);     }      sleep(60);   }  }    ------------------------------   Date: 3 May 2002 07:01:11 -0700 " From: cstranslations@msn.com (Joe)" Subject: Re: (remaining) GBLPAGFIL= Message-ID: <d56d1c2d.0205030601.5da443b7@posting.google.com>    labadie_g@decus.fr (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Labadie_G=E9rard?=) wrote in message news:<b94065a6.0205022321.11a16a5f@posting.google.com>...   @ Thanks for all the responses. As David kind of guessed above I'm@ trying to get what's "currently available" rather than the "hard limit."   C Thanks as well for the below example. It didn't occur to me (and it C wouldn't be the 1st time) that the cell "in question" might be user  mode readable...   Joe      > Hello  > M > Here is a program that looks regularly to that place and defines a logical  . > min_gblpagfil, that will be the min reached. > 	 > Regards  >  > Grard   <snip>   ------------------------------   Date: 3 May 02 19:48:56 +0200 ) From: p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture) , Subject: RE: 6.2/7.3 Cluster - Advice Sought) Message-ID: <kEQXDl+Cq7nK@elias.decus.ch>   _ In article <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIAEAOEOAA.tom@kednos.com>, "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> writes: F > Well, I guess I am just dumb and lucky because the following has run9 > for a number of years with the addtion of 7.3 last year I > View of Cluster from system ID 2055  node: FREJA             1-MAY-2002 
 > 06:05:07! > +-------------------+---------+ ! > |      SYSTEMS      | MEMBERS | ! > +--------+----------+---------+ ! > |  NODE  | SOFTWARE |  STATUS | ! > +--------+----------+---------+ ! > | FREJA  | VMS V7.3 | MEMBER  | ! > | ODIN   | VMS V7.1 | MEMBER  | ! > | HERMES | VMS V7.1 | MEMBER  | ! > | NORNS  | VMS V6.2 | MEMBER  | ! > +--------+----------+---------+  >   I Maybe lucky. The unsupported mixed versions I witnessed stretched back to E older versions. It is worth noting that when my problem occurred, CSC 6 simply turned around with a recommendation to upgrade.  H Of course, I imagine much depends on your configuration and what you are actually sharing (disks etc)   ------------------------------   Date: 3 May 02 19:57:19 +0200 ) From: p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture) & Subject: RE: Adding drives to an HSZ80) Message-ID: <DsXdaBE61n3u@elias.decus.ch>   Z In article <0033000062241003000002L032*@MHS>, WILLIAM WEBB <WWEBB1@email.usps.gov> writes: > =0AHe is recalling HSZ50s. > , > I think that the docs said that before you) > swapped disks, you pushed the button to  > "quiesce the bus". > , > The word always made me think of something+ > that the driver of a school bus does on a  > regular basis. > - > The level of activity/noise may decrease to ' > a very, very low level but it's never  > **totally** silent or still. >  > :^)  >  > WWWebb >  > -----Original Message-----1 > From: Info-VAX-Request@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNET ( > Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2002 10:31 PMD > To: Webb, William W Raleigh, NC; Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNET( > Subject: RE: Adding drives to an HSZ80 >  >  > John, 8 >      No buttons to press ....  just plug the drives in@ >      one at a time. Its a good idea to wait for each drive you< >      plug in to finish its spin-up although not necessary. > 7 >      Once the drives are in place just " RUN CONFIG " 4 >      and the drives will be added into the config. > 8 >      Then you should be able to "SHOW DEVICE " and the: >      drives will be seen but not assigned to any logical >      "container".  > 3 >      You can then stripe, raid or "jbod" them and   >      create a suitable unit #. > C It is worth noting that the RUN CONFIG command can take a long time G to discover the new disks. The first time I saw it running on an HSG80  D was with 48 (IIRC) newly attached disks. After 2 hours, it was still running, so we went home :-)   ------------------------------    Date: 03 May 2002 10:33:01 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>B Subject: Re: AMD To Announce Microsoft Support For New Chip Family- Message-ID: <874rhqyn8i.fsf@prep.synonet.com>   / JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> writes:   C > Now, perhaps someone can chime in here: Could VMS run on Hammer ?  > Could Tandem run on Hammer ?  B > Does Hammer have the architectural stuff to support those 2 OS ?C > (sufficient memory modes, lockstep etc).  If VMS and Tandem can't C > run on Hammer, but Hammer kills IA64 for mainstream use, than VMS A > and Tandem will be much worse off on the slow IA64, compared to  > Alpha.  B Hammer does not have lockstep as far as we know, and it would be aB major job to implement it, and test it. But if AMD want to go thatD way, they have the rights to a proven high-end CPU design, and thereF are a pile of engineers who would be glad to jump once they get untelsC pieces of silver. Hey, there are even several OSs for it, including  that billyshit thing :|   ! So who needs 'one ring' anyway...    --  < Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda. @                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------   Date: 3 May 2002 12:38:00 GMT 1 From: bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) B Subject: Re: AMD To Announce Microsoft Support For New Chip Family, Message-ID: <aau0b8$2v37$3@info.cs.uofs.edu>  - In article <874rhqyn8i.fsf@prep.synonet.com>, /  Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com> writes:  |> |>  $ |> So who needs 'one ring' anyway... |>     Sauron?    bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 03 May 2002 08:21:45 -0700 ' From: David Mathog <mathog@caltech.edu> / Subject: Re: Anticipating the HP court decision + Message-ID: <3CD2AB09.8CE0F6A8@caltech.edu>    "Terry C. Shannon" wrote:  > H > "Brian Tillman" <tillman_brian@notnoone.notnohow.com> wrote in message  > news:3cd1867d$1@news.si.com...N > > >On the other hand, I didn't notice you (or Terry) commenting *before* the > > >result was known... > > 6 > > Yah.  That's because I didn't want to be wrong ;-) > L > Can't say as I blame you. After all, who'da thunk that HWP will become HPQ > on Monday next?   7 The merger goes forward now no matter what.  It remains > to be seen if Carly remains the engineer on that train or endsA up as a splattered (gold) bug on the windscreen.  Recall Pfeiffer : didn't long remain at the helm of Compaq after it ate DEC.  ? Beyond the morass of the merger itself there are three more big " obstacles that might derail Carly:  D 1. The affaire Deutsche bank is still under investigation by the SECO and other legal beagles.  While W. Hewlett couldn't achieve the burden of proof L needed in his lawsuit that doesn't mean that one of the other groups lookingM into this won't be able to dredge up the whole truth. From the little that WH M did cast a light on it was apparently quite a rank scene, with the part of DB 	 that does G business with HP sitting in on the "presentation" and no doubt applying  significant O arm twisting to the other part, the one supposedly in charge of looking out for P the investors.  And HP winking, blinking, and nodding furiously in the direction of the bankers.   P 2.  The AMD hammer/clawhammer keep rolling along while HPQ clings tenaciously to the M vaporous itanic.  My gut feeling is that Intel will not be able to keep Mikey 	 satisfied A with a phantom chip and Dell will swallow hard and beging selling2 hammer/clawhammer N machines.  Leaving HPQ with clearly second rate kit to sell.  A quarter or two ofI that scenario should be enough to send both Carly and Curly out the door.i  M 3.  Many (probably most) HP employees hate Carly now.  After she axes 25K HPQ J employees she'll probably have to walk the halls with enough bodyguards toK do Saddam Hussein proud.  It's far from clear to me that a company seethingpN with that much animosity can be made to function no matter what organizational! structure the MBAs layer onto it.l   Regards,   David Mathog mathog@caltech.edu   ------------------------------    Date: 03 May 2002 12:36:38 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>- Subject: ASTs and privs. Was: $QIO and SYSPRVr0 Message-ID: <876625yhih.fsf_-_@prep.synonet.com>  / JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> writes:E  C > would work fine. The only hitch is that your AST may execute with F > SYSPRV or without SYSPRV depending on if it executes before or after > the disabling of the sysprv.  C Does this mean AST code could run at elevated privelege if it firesg4 at the 'right time'? No, I don't mean elevated mode.   -- C< Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.:@                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------   Date: 3 May 2002 07:57:45 -0700c- From: jodonnell@hrblock.com (Jason O'Donnell)b1 Subject: Re: ASTs and privs. Was: $QIO and SYSPRV = Message-ID: <9059bf6b.0205030657.47637c96@posting.google.com>E  d Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com> wrote in message news:<876625yhih.fsf_-_@prep.synonet.com>...1 > JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> writes:o > E > > would work fine. The only hitch is that your AST may execute withiH > > SYSPRV or without SYSPRV depending on if it executes before or after  > > the disabling of the sysprv. > E > Does this mean AST code could run at elevated privelege if it firesA6 > at the 'right time'? No, I don't mean elevated mode.   The way I understand things:  D An AST is part of a process.  A process has a header block where youF can find things such privileges and rights lists.  When it runs, if itF performs an action that needs to check the rights/privileges, whateverD is in the header will determine whether it can perform that action. B Depending on how the AST is queued and what it is waiting for, you5 cannot control when it will "pop" except with SETAST.i  D However, my grandma taught me that ASTs should be small and not do aC whole lot.  I primarily use them to set event flags, drop a messagei> pointer onto a stack/queue, and/or increment a counter or two.  D So,in general, I do not concern myself much with privleges availableA to an AST.  If you are, maybe you are doing too much with an AST?e   JMOD   ------------------------------   Date: 3 May 02 19:53:10 +0200n) From: p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture)r? Subject: Re: Can I delete those *.EXE_OLD files on system disk? ) Message-ID: <Dze5u2lowFcv@elias.decus.ch>s  t In article <rzSz8.10$fS1.173180@cacnews.cac.cpqcorp.net>, hammond@not@peek.ppb.cpqcorp.net (Charlie Hammond) writes:, > In article <iHzE1vtkwa3X@elias.decus.ch>, - > p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture) writes:r >  > [_OLD files] > I >>... They are indeed created by the PRODUCT INSTALL facility as backups,  > 	 > Corect.n > H >>so that the PRODUCT REMOVE command can be subsequently used to remove  >>ECO kits if needs be.o >  m > Wrong. > @ > PRODUCT REMOVE works only on PRODUCTS, not PATCHES (ECO kits). >    Thanks for the correction.  oG > Once the _OLD files are created, the PCSI utility has nothing more toEL > do with them.  In some cases the CAN be used to "manually" backout changes8 > made by a patch kit, but not with any PRODUCT command. > M > Even the code that deletes _OLD files (in OpenVMS V7.3 and higher versions) J > is straight DCL -- although it does run within an EXECUTE procedure that > is part of a PRODUCT INSTALL.  >    ------------------------------   Date: 3 May 2002 03:53:28 -0700d% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net> . Subject: Capellas alienates HP dealers already) Message-ID: <aatq780236s@drn.newsguy.com>e  O Further to Capellas's comment yesterday regarding the evisceration of mid-rangee5 Unix the following comments appear after the story atII http://www.crn.com/Sections/BreakingNews/BreakingNews.asp?ArticleID=35060.    H Capellas = waste of space  0    Hard Deck - Lothar  5/2/02 11:30:07 PM  N I hope Carly is only keeping him around to finish the merger. He's just pissedP off thousands of dedicated HP UX dealers. His Direct program has only managed toM slow down sales and REDUCE margins. Yup, Direct is definetely the weay to go!pN Lose marketshare and lowered margins. Direct in the PC biz is an anomily (sp.)L only ONE company has managed to do it right. The rest should stick to makingM good product support their dealers and let their dealers do the hard work for  them.   s8 What are you smoking?  0    unixmfj  5/2/02 7:28:14 PM  P Hmm. A President of a company who (in his former role)could never make a dent inN the Unix market telling you its dead. OK... Now lets talk hardware, AS/400 forM example, its been around forever, very upgradable (620,720,820), reliable foriM miss crit apps, and longer economic useful life. Compare that to Wintel/LinuxnN gear... not even close. Capellas wants Unix to die so corporate america can goL the way of disposable servers just like they did the PCs (worthlesss after 2L years). How many HP9000 partners will this article turn to IBM partners now?G Apparently Capellas forgot about that part of his newly formed company.-   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 03 May 2002 12:55:55 GMTp* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>< Subject: Re: Capellas: Linux, Windows Will 'Eviscerate' Unix@ Message-ID: <fNvA8.56516$Lj.4172599@bin4.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>  F "Phillip Helbig" <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> wrote in message5 news:01KHAILLAYG08Y8ZDE@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com...  > >dI http://www.crn.com/Sections/BreakingNews/BreakingNews.asp?ArticleID=35060e >uI > The comments are interesting, too, entitled "Capellas = waste of space"n# > and "What are you smoking?".  :-)t > E > Changing topic, there is a link on this page to an article entitledmB > "Microsoft Execs Defend Media Player".  This is more of the sameB > antitrust stuff.  Perhaps someone can tell me what I am missing.  L What you are missing is the concept that a company which holds a monopoly inH one area should not be allowed to leverage that monopoly to extend it to other areas.  I Microsoft holds an effective monopoly on desktop OSs.  It deliberately, a B while ago, used that monopoly to crush Netscape (not an OS, but anI application), by not only bundling IE with Windows 'gratis' but making itmL more difficult to integrate Netscape on the platform.  This is why many holdL the view that Windows should be made sufficiently modular that it will offerL competitive *applications* (and, say, middleware) a level playing field with Microsoft products.a  @ Suggesting that if people prefer other applications to MicrosoftG applications they should simply use a different platform to run them iseK rather silly, if choosing a different platform is (by virtue of Microsoft's1G monopoly in that area) not really an option.  That's the whole point ofnJ anti-trust legislation:  it holds monopolists to a different standard thanK the rest of the market, because in the case of a monopoly there effectively K *isn't* a 'rest of the market' - and while this is not prohibited in and of@K itself (if a company can win a market segment on its own merits, more powerhL to it), using that power to extend said monopoly into other segments that it4 *can't* win on the merits is considered undesirable.   - bill   ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 3 May 2002 11:48:55 -0400% From: "John Vottero" <John@mvpsi.com>M< Subject: Re: Capellas: Linux, Windows Will 'Eviscerate' Unix/ Message-ID: <ud5cb99fqvtq85@news.supernews.com>l  6 "Kenneth Farmer" <kfarmer@farmer.org> wrote in message9 news:VCtA8.31416$gd5.10719128@typhoon.southeast.rr.com...g > K > http://www.crn.com/Sections/BreakingNews/BreakingNews.asp?ArticleID=35060" >,  K I have to agree with Capellas, in fact, it seems obvious to me.  You can noa? longer sell Unix by claiming that it's the "Open/Standard" O/S.SG Linux/NetBSD/FreeBSD are the only true open/standard operating systems.-J Unix vendors have to start pointing at their proprietary extensions as theG reason to buy their flavor of *nix.  The world is going to wind up with1H Windows, Linux and proprietary operation systems.  With OpenVMS, NSK and: Tru64/HP-UX,  HP rivals IBM as king of the proprietary OS.  C The real question (which is still unanswered) is: does HP view it'sdL proprietary OS's as a competitive advantage that should be promoted in orderL to advance it's position in all three arenas or as a cash cow that should beG milked until it can convert everyone to a Linux or Windows environment?   & I hope they answer that question soon.   ------------------------------  + Date: Fri, 03 May 2002 18:12:57 +0100 (MET)n9 From: Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>e< Subject: Re: Capellas: Linux, Windows Will 'Eviscerate' Unix; Message-ID: <01KHATIHEU1Q8Y8ZDE@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>r  C > I have to agree with Capellas, in fact, it seems obvious to me.  o   With regard to unix, yes.n  G > You can no longer sell Unix by claiming that it's the "Open/Standard"oE > O/S. Linux/NetBSD/FreeBSD are the only true open/standard operatinguC > systems. Unix vendors have to start pointing at their proprietaryi9 > extensions as the reason to buy their flavor of *nix.  s  I Right.  The main argument for unix was openness, non-proprietariness (at -E least of the basic OS) etc.  If that is an argument for a commercial -, unix, it's much more an arguement for linux.  C > The world is going to wind up with Windows, Linux and proprietaryE > operation systems.    	 Right on.B  B > With OpenVMS, NSK and Tru64/HP-UX,  HP rivals IBM as king of the > proprietary OS.    Indeed.-  E > The real question (which is still unanswered) is: does HP view it'seH > proprietary OS's as a competitive advantage that should be promoted inJ > order to advance it's position in all three arenas or as a cash cow thatF > should be milked until it can convert everyone to a Linux or Windows > environment? i  H I think it should be obvious that, like IBM (at least in this respect), I they should make money from proprietary operating systems.  IF people go v< with linux or windows, why should they buy anything from HP?   ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 3 May 2002 09:18:23 -0700# From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com>g< Subject: RE: Capellas: Linux, Windows Will 'Eviscerate' Unix9 Message-ID: <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIEEGCEOAA.tom@kednos.com>s  ? If you don't know how to write code that is portable it doesn'ti; matteer which system you are running on.  I equate opennesseA (aside from the high prairie) with portability.  If, for example,t? you use system calls in your code then you are slave to the OS.WB If you _really_ need to make such calls, they can be encapsulated, simplifying porting.   >-----Original Message-----0A >From: Phillip Helbig [mailto:HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com]m$ >Sent: Friday, May 03, 2002 10:13 AM >To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com= >Subject: Re: Capellas: Linux, Windows Will 'Eviscerate' Unixn >  > D >> I have to agree with Capellas, in fact, it seems obvious to me.   >n >With regard to unix, yes. > H >> You can no longer sell Unix by claiming that it's the "Open/Standard"F >> O/S. Linux/NetBSD/FreeBSD are the only true open/standard operatingD >> systems. Unix vendors have to start pointing at their proprietary: >> extensions as the reason to buy their flavor of *nix.   > J >Right.  The main argument for unix was openness, non-proprietariness (at F >least of the basic OS) etc.  If that is an argument for a commercial - >unix, it's much more an arguement for linux.r >tD >> The world is going to wind up with Windows, Linux and proprietary >> operation systems.  w >s
 >Right on. >sC >> With OpenVMS, NSK and Tru64/HP-UX,  HP rivals IBM as king of the2 >> proprietary OS. r >  >Indeed. >iF >> The real question (which is still unanswered) is: does HP view it'sI >> proprietary OS's as a competitive advantage that should be promoted inMK >> order to advance it's position in all three arenas or as a cash cow thatiG >> should be milked until it can convert everyone to a Linux or Windows  >> environment?  >eI >I think it should be obvious that, like IBM (at least in this respect), oJ >they should make money from proprietary operating systems.  IF people go = >with linux or windows, why should they buy anything from HP?s >f >---' >Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.a; >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).eA >Version: 6.0.351 / Virus Database: 197 - Release Date: 4/19/2002h >  ---t& Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.: Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).@ Version: 6.0.351 / Virus Database: 197 - Release Date: 4/19/2002   ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 3 May 2002 11:27:48 -05001 From: "Dave Gudewicz" <david.gudewicz@abbott.com>i< Subject: Re: Capellas: Linux, Windows Will 'Eviscerate' Unix8 Message-ID: <aaudu1$58b$1@fizban.fizban.pprd.abbott.com>  K I guess I need some help.  Could someone please explain how LINUX is reallyt	 NOT UNIX?   H I don't mean beneath the cloak of branding, etc.  I mean under the hood.   Dave...-  0 "John Vottero" <John@mvpsi.com> wrote in message news:ud5cb99fqvtq85@new.com...8 > "Kenneth Farmer" <kfarmer@farmer.org> wrote in message; > news:VCtA8.31416$gd5.10719128@typhoon.southeast.rr.com...7 > >f > >uI http://www.crn.com/Sections/BreakingNews/BreakingNews.asp?ArticleID=35060  > >@ >pJ > I have to agree with Capellas, in fact, it seems obvious to me.  You can noA > longer sell Unix by claiming that it's the "Open/Standard" O/S.(I > Linux/NetBSD/FreeBSD are the only true open/standard operating systems.oL > Unix vendors have to start pointing at their proprietary extensions as theI > reason to buy their flavor of *nix.  The world is going to wind up with-J > Windows, Linux and proprietary operation systems.  With OpenVMS, NSK and< > Tru64/HP-UX,  HP rivals IBM as king of the proprietary OS. >sE > The real question (which is still unanswered) is: does HP view it's H > proprietary OS's as a competitive advantage that should be promoted in ordereK > to advance it's position in all three arenas or as a cash cow that should  beI > milked until it can convert everyone to a Linux or Windows environment?s >c( > I hope they answer that question soon. >' >a >s   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 03 May 2002 17:01:20 GMTa* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>< Subject: Re: Capellas: Linux, Windows Will 'Eviscerate' UnixA Message-ID: <AnzA8.42174$Ii2.3604626@bin2.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>n  < "Dave Gudewicz" <david.gudewicz@abbott.com> wrote in message2 news:aaudu1$58b$1@fizban.fizban.pprd.abbott.com...F > I guess I need some help.  Could someone please explain how LINUX is really > NOT UNIX?D >sJ > I don't mean beneath the cloak of branding, etc.  I mean under the hood.  ? Well, the most obvious reason is that it's really not ready foriJ enterprise-level use, just as Windows isn't (though Linux and even WindowsD might some day be):  it doesn't have reasonable SMP capabilities for< anything over 4 to at most 8 processors, it doesn't have any@ prime-time-ready clustering mechanisms, it's still experimentingJ (vigorously) with file systems, it has no formal support structure (though9 some of the package vendors are trying to create them)...h  J From what I know of Linux I like it a lot.  But it's not a mature platformI yet for much beyond desktop (or at least development desktop) and low-ende server use.e  I Now, that may not be a real answer to the question you asked, but it doeseJ illustrate that, yet again, Curly is trashing his own products without anyJ effective replacement up his sleeve.  In many senses, of course Linux *is*D Unix - which means that rather than having to convert to Linux, manyH customers will likely choose to remain with their current Unix vendor asI long as that vendor makes sure that their Unix is Linux-compatible (whicheL even VMS could be).  That certainly seems to be IBM's approach to the issue,E and by all appearances its customers like it:  it gives them both thehL advantages of a mature platform and the advantages of a standard environment without vendor lock-in.t   - bill   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 03 May 2002 17:29:39 GMT-* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>< Subject: Re: Capellas: Linux, Windows Will 'Eviscerate' UnixA Message-ID: <7OzA8.42370$Ii2.3630017@bin2.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>y  6 "Kenneth Farmer" <kfarmer@farmer.org> wrote in message9 news:VCtA8.31416$gd5.10719128@typhoon.southeast.rr.com...m >eK > http://www.crn.com/Sections/BreakingNews/BreakingNews.asp?ArticleID=35060r  = Plus a bit more information (than I remember in the above) in   ) http://news.com.com/2100-1001-898086.html    For example:   <quote>d  L The new HP in many ways will resemble the old Compaq. The company's strategyJ will largely revolve around aligning itself with technology giants such asL Microsoft and Intel and large consulting firms to deliver products that willL be cheaper than those from companies such as IBM and Sun Microsystems, which% tout their own internal developments.-   ...-  I At the same time, HP will integrate enough of its own high-level features H into its products to create a gap between it and Dell Computer, which isK known for its mass-manufacturing efficiencies but performs less independentiH research. The new HP will "put some intellectual property into the Linux* world" and stress its management software.  G In its heyday, Compaq strove to use standard components to make PCs andAI servers that were comparable in price to competing products but containedtD enough original engineering to set them apart. By contrast, HP spent? considerable effort on building Unix servers and its own chips.t   </quote>  G So if the new HP will look more like Compaq than the old HP, this meansAJ deemphasizing things like 'building Unix servers and its own chips' (well,G we already knew the latter).  Perhaps trying to move some IP into Linux K (though probably not into Windows:  we know how Compaq's cluster efforts inw that direction turned out).p  H Now I'm sure Bob the Mouth will pipe up (many times, in fact) and assertF that VMS will live on reincarnated in Linux.  But I suspect that's not, exactly what most people here had hoped for.   - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 03 May 2002 01:48:23 -0400e( From: David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>/ Subject: Re: capture single keystroke from DCL?d, Message-ID: <3CD224A7.2060702@tsoft-inc.com>   David J. Dachtera wrote:   > Fred Kleinsorge wrote: > G >>Write yourself a program to do it.  It shouldn't take more than a few1K >>minutes to work it out, or more than an hour or so to write it, debug it,I >>and share it.X >>3 >>Mike Scott wrote in message <3cd1651e@nubby2.>...l >>G >>>I've been surfing for two hours now - nuthin.  I would LOVE a way toa >>>@	 >>captureb >>J >>>a single keystroke within a DCL script (no other languages/compilers onK >>>sys).  Obviously, I'm refering to keys other than [ENTER] ;-{).  A bonus ; >>>would be the ability to also capture a cursor keystroke.  >>>-with thanks  >>>e > H > I used to have a VAX BASIC program that used ONECHR (I think) to get aH > single character and reflect its identity (CR, PF1, LEFT, RIGHT, etc.) > I > In DCL, I think the closest you can come requires the INQUIRE verb, andoF > no, AFAIK, you can't trap the cursor keys. I believe that's actuallyD > spelled out somewhere - either the doc. or the on-line HELP, don't > recall just now.    Q I've thought about this a bit.  Interesting problem.  It's rather easy to invoke  Q an executable to get a character.  The problem is getting that character back to   DCL.  E Now, I'm far from a DCL expert, so some of this may get picked apart.-  L A DCL routine could be 'called' to get the data, with the assumption that a N symbol will contain the data.  Then something simple like the following would 
 get the data.3   Basic program:  < 	Z$ = INKEY$( 0% , WAIT 255% )	!  Haven't figured out how to 					!  get rid of the WAITt' 	CALL LIB$SET_SYMBOL( "ONE_CHAR" , Z$ )o 	END  Q Not specifying the third argument in LIB$SET_SYMBOL causes the default of '1' to eR be used, which sets a 'local' symbol.  Don't need it outside the DCL command file.  O The above could be done in MACRO32 to get around not having any compilers, but dL that would be a bit more code.  I don't do enough MACRO32 to be proficient. M However, the BASIC INKEY$ function does return things like 'UP', 'DOWN', and a/ such for all the keys except the function keys.n   Then the DCL routine:c   Get_A_Char: SUBROUTINE 	RUN <executable filename> 	ENDSUBROUTINE   Use of subroutine:     $ call Get_A_Charr $ write SYS$OUTPUT 'ONE_CHAR  P What I thought would be good, was a DCL function call, where the function value I was the character.  As far as I know, DCL doesn't have such functionally.n   Dave   ------------------------------   Date: 3 May 2002 07:21:01 -0500m From: briggs@encompasserve.org/ Subject: Re: capture single keystroke from DCL?c3 Message-ID: <iS0avSRj55Qh@eisner.encompasserve.org>a  [ In article <3CD1F2F9.55FDE268@fsi.net>, "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> writes: I > In DCL, I think the closest you can come requires the INQUIRE verb, andtF > no, AFAIK, you can't trap the cursor keys. I believe that's actuallyD > spelled out somewhere - either the doc. or the on-line HELP, don't > recall just now.  8 You can trap cursor keys if you're sufficiently devious.  A Start by setting the terminal /NOESCAPE and /NOLINE_EDITING.  NowpB $ READ SYS$INPUT GARBAGE  If the user hits a cursor key, your readC will terminate on the escape.  (Good luck distinguishing the escapeH from a carriage return).  ? The trailing data from the escape sequence will still be in thee typeahead buffer.p  E Now set the terminal /ESCAPE and $ READ /PROMPT using a prompt stringuD which is some flavor of status enquiry.  This read gets the trailing> portion of the user's cursor sequence.  The status response is5 read as an escape sequence and eaten in its entirety.m  ; Writing a program is almost certainly the better way to go.    	John Briggs   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 03 May 2002 09:49:06 -0400s- From: D Atkinson <daveatki@us.reverseMBI.com>a/ Subject: Re: capture single keystroke from DCL?e1 Message-ID: <3CD29552.1E8A6284@us.reverseMBI.com>   & paddy.o'brien@zzz.tg.nsw.gov.au wrote: >  > Mike Scott wrote:a > O > >I've been surfing for two hours now - nuthin.  I would LOVE a way to capturetJ > >a single keystroke within a DCL script (no other languages/compilers onK > >sys).  Obviously, I'm refering to keys other than [ENTER] ;-{).  A bonusw; > >would be the ability to also capture a cursor keystroke.l > >-with thanksv > K > I have a little Macro program that does pretty well what you want, so youdM > don't have to worry about any other language compilers.  My records show melJ > that I picked this up from Hunter Goatley's old WKU site many years ago. >  > It's called ASK...  C I too obtained ASK from Hunter Goatley's WKU site years ago, then It	 hacked itoG up a bit. Among other things, I expanded the list of special keys whicho can B terminate the input operation, and returned the terminating key or escape@ sequence via a DCL symbol "$TERMINATOR". I've used this in a DCL applicationi< to detect the escape sequences generated by the cursor keys.  G Since it's fairly short, I'll take the liberty of appending the source,  at theD risk of violating standards of network decency. To use it, one would have toeG assemble, link, put the EXE in a known location, and define a suitable 3% foreign symbol to invoke it from DCL.o   -----Source of ASK.MAR ----- 	.Title Aska 	.IDENT /2.15/   ;+3 ; This routine is similar to the DCL cmd INQUIRE.  s' ; It MUST be invoked via a foreign cmd.e ; Command format:  ;m1 ;	$ASK [/qualifiers]  symbol-name "prompt-string"e ;. ; Command qualifiers ;w$ ;	/TIMEOUT=n			! time out in seconds6 ;	/MAXCHARS=n			! max chars to read, 1-255      ; DEA1+ ;	/DEFAULT=default-string		! default answerY& ;	/GLOBAL				! Same as INQUIRE command. ;	/UPPERCASE			! Force upper case input	; JGD1) ;	/NOECHO				! Do not echo answer		; VEJ1o ;a ; Notes: ;-< ;   o Terminating key or escape sequence is stored in symbol $TERMINATOR  DEA1s; ;   o Terminating keys include TAB, CR, Ctrl-Z, and are notp echoed        DEA14 ;   o Terminating character(s) count towards maximum specified            DEA1v0 ;   o The symbol-name MUST be a valid DCL symbolF ;   o The double quotes surrounding the prompt-string MUST be present!= ;   o The radix of the timeout count is assumed to be decimald@ ;   o There may be NO double quotes surrounding the ALPHANUMERIC default-string ;k
 ; Written by: 
 ;		Mark Paulke ;		System Development Corp ;		4810 Bradford Blvd NW ;		Huntsville, Al  35805 ;		(205)-837-7610- ;		Taken from [VAX82B.SDC.ASK] ;0 ; Modified by: ;		James G. Downward ;		KMS Fusion, Inc.d ;		PO Box 1567 ;		Ann Arbor, Mich.  48106 ;		(313)-769-8500  ;		29-March-1983) ;				JGD1		Added /UPPER to force upper tov! ;						lowercase conversion.  By t! ;						default, input now can be s" ;						lower case unless /UPPER is# ;						specified.  Allow Escape Seqe! ;						to be passed.  Allow ^Z toh ;						be returned if entered. ;t! ;				JGD2		Allow VT2xx Escape seqs$ ;				JGD3		Very minor bug fix ADDL-># ;						ADDW. ASK works without this " ;						change, but right is right. ;n( ;				JGD4		Correct V4.0 Link warning msg ;h ;a
 ;		Phil Smith  ;		Digital Equipment Corp. ;		7200 Poe Ave  ;		Dayton, Ohio 45414e ;		(513) 898-0920a ;		26-Jul-1985+ ;				PRS1		Converted TRNLOG system service  $ ;						call to TRNLNM system serivce' ;						call using dynamic buffer sizes.r& ;						Allows unlimited terminal name & ;						strings. This change needed to % ;						enable V4.0 to work on clusteri ;						system. ;d ;		V. Edward James ;		Martin Marietta Laboratories  ;		1450 South Rolling Road ;		Baltimore, MD 21227-3898v ;		410-204-2042s
 ;		1-DEC-1988e& ;				VEJ1		Added /NOECHO qualifier for ;						reading passwords, etc. ;		29-NOV-1990  ;				VEJ2		Check for CSI and SS3 ;		26-FEB-1993" ;				VEJ3		If not terminal, set ^Z ;		07-JAN-1994 ;				VEJ4		AXP Changes ;  ;		D.E. Atkinson ;		IBM Corp. ;               01-MAY-1996p+ ;				DEA1            Allow TAB to terminatei ;						the ASK operation ;-   	$TpaDef 	$CliServDef 	$LnmDef							; PRS1- 	$Dvidef							; VEJ3r 	$Dcdef							; VEJ3     	Equals = ^X3D
 	Quote = ^X22n   	.Psect AskData,NoExep+ TParseBlk:	.Long Tpa$K_Count0, Tpa$M_Abbrev      		.Blkb Tpa$K_Length0 - 8J LocalQualSeen:	.Long 1 GlobalQualSeen:	.Long 0o DefQualSeen:	.Long 0 TimeQualSeen:	.Long 0 " MaxChQualSeen:	.Long 0						; DEA1" UpperQualSeen:	.Long 0						; JGD1 NoechoQualSeen:	.Long 0p TimeOutCnt:	.Long 0e  MaxCharsCnt:	.Long 0						; DEA1 CmdBuf:		.Blkb 255 CmdDesc:	.Long 255,CmdBufu0 Request: 	.Long Cli$K_DefLocal@8 ! Cli$K_CliServ SymName::	.Quad 0y SymValue::	.Long 0,Answern Prompt:		.Quad 0 DefAnswer:	.Quad 0 Answer::	.Blkb 255 LogNam:		.ASCID /SYS$COMMAND/n( TabNam:		.ASCID /LNM$FILE_DEV/				; PRS1' Ilist:		.Word lnm$c_namlength				; PRS1s 		.Word lnm$_string				; PRS1t 		.Long Term					; PRS1v 		.Long TermDesc					; PRS1f 		.Long 0						; PRS1o Dvilst:		.Word 4						; VEJ3 		.Word dvi$_devclass				; VEJ3r 		.Long Devclass					; VEJ3t 		.Long 0						; VEJ3  		.Long 0						; VEJ3e) TermDesc:	.Long lnm$c_namlength				; PRS1i 		.Address Term					; PRS1& Term:		.Blkb lnm$c_namlength				; PRS1 Channel:	.Long 0 Iosb:		.Quad 0 Devclass:	.Long 0						; VEJ3  IO_Func:	.Long 0						; VEJ3    - TMO:	 	.Long Cli$K_DefLocal@8 ! Cli$K_CliServl TMO_Name:	.LONG 8,TMO_SYM  TMO_Value::	.Long 1,TMO_VALc TMO_VAL:	.ASCII	/F/' TMO_SYM:	.ASCII  /$TIMEOUT/l  C ;Mask controls which ASCII characters 0-31 act as input terminatorsoF ;                       31 28  24  20  16  12   8   4   0       ; DEA1@ TRMMask::      .Long 0,^B00000100000000000010001000000000	; DEA1  H ;Terminating character or escape sequence returned in symbol $TERMINATOR5 TRM:	 	.Long Cli$K_DefLocal@8 ! Cli$K_CliServ		; DEA1i$ TRM_Name:	.LONG 11,TRM_SYM				; DEA1& TRM_Value::	.Long 0, Answer					; DEA1? TRM_SYM:	.ASCII  /$TERMINATOR/                           ; DEA1n TRM_offtmp:	.Long 0						; DEA1L   	.Psect AskCode> 	.Entry	ASK,^M<>					;VEJ4# 	Pushal	TParseBlk + Tpa$L_StringCnt( 	Clrl	-(Sp)h 	Pushal	CmdDesct6 	Calls	#3,G^Lib$Get_Foreign		; Correct call mode  JGD4 	Blbs	R0,10$	 	Brw	Donei- 10$:	Moval	CmdBuf,TParseBlk + Tpa$L_StringPtro 	Pushal	QualKey      	Pushal	QualStatef     	Pushal	TParseBlkk     	Calls	#3,G^Lib$TParse 	Blbs	R0,20$	 	Brw	Donee2 20$:	$TrnLnm_S -			; Translate logical name	; PRS1 		LogNam=LogNam, -					; PRS1g 		TabNam=TabNam, -					; PRS1e 		Itmlst=Ilist						; PRS1     	Blbs	R0,22$
     	Brw	Done. 22$:	Cmpb	#27,Term
     	Bneq	24$:     	Subl2	#4,TermDesc     	Addl2	#4,TermDesc+40 24$:	$Assign_S Chan = Channel, DevNam = TermDesc     	Blbs	R0,26$							; VEJ3v
     	Brw	Doneo- 26$:	$Getdviw_S -			; Get Device Info		; VEJ3 ) 		Chan = Channel, Itmlst=Dvilst				; VEJ3$ 	Blbs	R0,30$							; VEJ3b 	Brw	Done							; VEJ3' 30$:	Cmpb	#DC$_Term,Devclass					; VEJ3i 	Beql	32$							; VEJ3# 	Movb	#26,Iosb+4		; Set ^Z			; VEJ3e/ 	Movl	#1,Iosb+2		; Set proper ^Z length		; VEJ3 0 	Movb	#26,Answer		; Set ^Z in the buffer		; VEJ3 	Brw	55$							; VEJ3bC 32$:	Movl	#Io$_ReadPrompt!Io$M_Escape!Io$M_TrmNoEcho,IO_Func	; DEA1n7 ;32$:	Movl	#Io$_ReadPrompt!Io$M_Escape,IO_Func			; DEA1s3 	Blbc	NoechoQualSeen,34$	; Br if not Noecho		; VEJ3/& 	Bisl2	#Io$M_NoEcho,IO_Func					; VEJ3> 34$:	Blbc	UpperQualSeen,35$	; Br if not Force Uppercase	; VEJ3& 	Bisl2	#Io$M_Cvtlow,IO_Func					; VEJ3? 35$:	Blbc	MaxChQualSeen,36$	; Br if no MAXCHARS supplied	; DEA1i: 	Cmpl    MaxCharsCnt,#255	; Check supplied value...	; DEA15 	Bgtr    36$			; ..is .le. 255                 ; DEA1e7         Brb     40$			; Accept supplied MAXCHARS	; DEA1lE 36$:    Movl    #255,MaxCharsCnt        ; Default to 255 chars max 	;d DEA13 40$:	Blbs	TimeQualSeen,45$	; Br if Timeout			; VEJ3r@ 	$Qiow_S Chan=Channel,Func=IO_Func,Iosb=Iosb,P1=Answer,-		; DEA19 		P2=MaxCharsCnt,P4=#TRMMask,P5=Prompt+4,P6=Prompt	; DEA1w     	Brw	50$							; JGD1a) 45$:	Bisl2	#Io$M_Timed,IO_Func					; VEJ3o7 	$Qiow_S Chan=Channel,Func=IO_Func,Iosb=Iosb,-			; VEJ3 A     		P1=Answer,P2=MaxCharsCnt,P3=TimeOutCnt,P4=#TRMMask,-	; DEA1v" 		P5=Prompt+4,P6=Prompt					; JGD1 50$:	e 	Blbs	R0,55$							; JGD1w 	Jmp	Done							; JGD1 55$:- ;	CMPB	Answer,#27		; Was escape seen?		; JGD1 $ ;	Beql	56$			; Yes, was ESC			; VEJ2. ;	CMPB	Answer,#155		; Was CSI seen?   		; VEJ2$ ;	Beql	56$			; Yes, was CSI			; VEJ2. ;	CMPB	Answer,#143		; Was SS3 seen?   		; VEJ2& ;	Bneq	57$			; No, was not SS3		; VEJ2 56$:									; VEJ2d- ;	Movl	#3,Iosb+2		; Set proper length		; JGD1$? ;	ADDL    Iosb+6,Iosb+2		; Set proper length for esc seq ; JGD2p? ;	ADDW    Iosb+6,Iosb+2		; Set proper length for esc seq ; JGD3D   57$:									; VEJ2n' ;	Cmpb	Iosb+4,#26		; Was it ^Z			; JGD1u$ ;	Bneq	58$			; No, continue			; DEA12 ;	Movl	#1,Iosb+2		; Yes, set propper length	; JGD11 ;	Movb	#26,Answer		; Set ^Z in the buffer		; JGD1  58$:? 	Movzwl	Iosb+6,TRM_Value	; Set terminator length         ; DEA1aG         Movzwl	Iosb+2,TRM_offtmp	; Extend terminator offset      ; DEA1aH         Addl    TRM_offtmp,TRM_Value+4	; Add to buffer start address   ; DEA1# 	Movzwl	Iosb+2,SymValue						; JGD1l	 	Bneq	60$r 	Movq	DefAnswer,SymValue4     	Cmpw	Iosb,#SS$_TimeOut	; Did we timeout		; JGD1
     	Bneq	60$o0 	Movb	#84,TMO_VAL		; Yes, so show we did		; JGD10 	Blbs	NoechoQualSeen,60$	; Br if Noecho			; VEJ1     	$Qiow_SA Chan=Channel,Func=#Io$_WriteVBlk,P1=@SymValue+4,P2=SymValue,P4=#0w 60$:	Blbc	GlobalQualSeen,70$2     	Movl	#Cli$K_DefGlobal@8!Cli$K_CliServ,Request 70$:	Pushal	Requestc 	Calls	#1,G^Sys$Clit, 	Pushal	TMO			; Set the timeout flag		; JGD1+ 	Calls	#1,G^Sys$Cli		; in $TIMEOUT			; JGD1a4 	Pushal	TRM			; Set terminating string in     ; DEA1. 	Calls	#1,G^Sys$Cli		; in $TERMINATOR 		; DEA1	 Done:	Retn   	.Psect AskTablesv 	$Init_State QualState,QualKey  
 	$State Beginb 	$Tran '/',SwitchS  	$Tran TPA$_SYMBOL,,StoreVarName 	$State'( 	$Tran TPA$_LAMBDA,TPA$_EXIT,StorePrompt   	$State Switch% 	$Tran 'LOCAL',Begin,,1,LocalQualSeend' 	$Tran 'GLOBAL',Begin,,1,GlobalQualSeena( 	$Tran 'TIMEOUT',TimeOut,,1,TimeQualSeen4 	$Tran 'MAXCHARS',MaxChars,,1,MaxChQualSeen			; DEA1' 	$Tran 'DEFAULT',Default,,1,DefQualSeen 2 	$Tran 'UPPERCASE',Begin,,1,UpperQualSeen			; JGD11 	$Tran 'NOECHO',Begin,,1,NoechoQualSeen				; VEJ1e   	$State TimeOut 
 	$Tran Equals2 	$Stateb& 	$Tran TPA$_DECIMAL,Begin,,,TimeOutCnt   	$State MaxChars							; DEA1t 	$Tran Equals							; DEA1 	$State								; DEA1.1 	$Tran TPA$_DECIMAL,Begin,,,MaxCharsCnt				; DEA1i   	$State Defaulte
 	$Tran Equalsr 	$State5% 	$Tran TPA$_SYMBOL,Begin,StoreDefaulta 	$End_Statei  " 	.Entry	StoreDefault,^M<>				;VEJ4" 	Movq	Tpa$L_TokenCnt(AP),DefAnswer 	Ret  " 	.Entry	StoreVarName,^M<>				;VEJ4  	Movq	Tpa$L_TokenCnt(AP),SymName 	Ret  ! 	.Entry	StorePrompt,^M<>				;VEJ4o 	Clrl	R0  	Movl	Tpa$L_StringCnt(AP),Prompt	 	Bleq	10$r 	Subl2	#3,Prompt	 	Bleq	10$s$ 	Movl	Tpa$L_StringPtr(AP),Prompt + 4     	Addl2	#2,Prompt + 4     	Incl	R0 10$:	Ret  	 	.End	ASKM   -----End of ASK.MAR --------   ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 3 May 2002 11:21:02 -0400- From: "Peter Weaver" <peter.weaver@stelco.ca>s/ Subject: Re: capture single keystroke from DCL?p5 Message-ID: <aau9to$dnorg$2@ID-141708.news.dfncis.de>e  3 > Mike Scott wrote in message <3cd1651e@nubby2.>... G > >I've been surfing for two hours now - nuthin.  I would LOVE a way to 	 > captureeJ > >a single keystroke within a DCL script (no other languages/compilers onK > >sys).  Obviously, I'm refering to keys other than [ENTER] ;-{).  A bonus ; > >would be the ability to also capture a cursor keystroke.  > >-with thankst  L I never saw the complete text of the original message, so I don't know if heF wants the key returned to DCL, or just to accept it and discard it. InK keeping with the other discussion about TPU, here is a solution that should,G run with no other languages or compilers but it does not return the key # pressed if that is what you wanted;    $ type x.comI $ write sys$output "Hit any key (except CTRL-T, CTRL-S, CTRL-Q, CTRL-C ort CTRL-Y) to continue"# $ assign sys$command sys$input/usert7 $ edit/tpu/nosection/nodisplay/command=wait_for_key.tpuh $ write sys$output "OK"s   $ ty wait_for_key.tpuo mykey := read_key ;- quit (off) ;   :)     -- Peter WeaverL Opinions are my own, and do not reflect the opinions of my employer, nor theK company that it sub-contracts to, nor the company that it sub-contracts to.n   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 03 May 2002 17:26:47 GMTt5 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com>t/ Subject: Re: capture single keystroke from DCL?n9 Message-ID: <rLzA8.27$VU2.516255@cacnews.cac.cpqcorp.net>>  A David Froble wrote in message <3CD224A7.2060702@tsoft-inc.com>...e >David J. Dachtera wrote:w >n   snip   >l >Basic program:  >@= > Z$ = INKEY$( 0% , WAIT 255% ) !  Haven't figured out how to  > !  get rid of the WAIT( > CALL LIB$SET_SYMBOL( "ONE_CHAR" , Z$ ) > ENDe >h   your are on the right trackw   >b >Then the DCL routine: >r >Get_A_Char: SUBROUTINE> > RUN <executable filename>  > ENDSUBROUTINEX >S >Use of subroutine:O >H >I >$ call Get_A_Char >$ write SYS$OUTPUT 'ONE_CHARs >eJ >What I thought would be good, was a DCL function call, where the function valuerJ >was the character.  As far as I know, DCL doesn't have such functionally. >b  C Why bother with the subroutine?  Write the program to take a singleeI argument, an ASCII text string.  Use the string as the symbol to set.  So.   $ gechar :== $executable $ getchar my_symbole  . would return with the character in myu_symbol.   ------------------------------  + Date: Fri, 03 May 2002 17:43:39 +0100 (MET)s9 From: Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>e Subject: Cliff Stoll; Message-ID: <01KHASJPRO6U8Y8ZDE@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>a  I > Cliff is amusing and occasionally insightful but nonetheless a bit of ar > light-weight.   I He writes entertainingly, but I don't see that as a disadvantage.  He is WF interesting and perhaps a bit more credible since, in contrast to manyD rather dishonest "anti-computer" folks (as Isaac Asimov said, I knowE some people who are against ALL forms of technology---except electricaC guitars), he's actually been using computers hours a day for years.n   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 03 May 2002 17:05:33 GMT * From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> Subject: Re: Cliff StollA Message-ID: <xrzA8.42197$Ii2.3608460@bin2.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>t  F "Phillip Helbig" <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> wrote in message5 news:01KHASJPRO6U8Y8ZDE@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com...oK > > Cliff is amusing and occasionally insightful but nonetheless a bit of at > > light-weight.  >CJ > He writes entertainingly, but I don't see that as a disadvantage.  He isH > interesting and perhaps a bit more credible since, in contrast to manyF > rather dishonest "anti-computer" folks (as Isaac Asimov said, I knowG > some people who are against ALL forms of technology---except electric0E > guitars), he's actually been using computers hours a day for years.s  K I enjoy Cliff too and don't consider him a hack.  I just wouldn't quote him . as an authority in a discussion like this one.   - bill   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 03 May 2002 10:28:05 GMT + From: "Kenneth Farmer" <kfarmer@farmer.org>e= Subject: CRN: Capellas: Linux, Windows Will 'Eviscerate' Unix ? Message-ID: <VCtA8.31416$gd5.10719128@typhoon.southeast.rr.com>i  I http://www.crn.com/Sections/BreakingNews/BreakingNews.asp?ArticleID=35060e   --   Kenneth Farmer http://www.Tru64.org http://www.OpenVMS.org http://www.LinuxHPTC.com   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 03 May 2002 11:00:45 GMTn From: system@SendSpamHere.ORGhA Subject: Re: CRN: Capellas: Linux, Windows Will 'Eviscerate' Unixn0 Message-ID: <00A0D5F8.AD178E86@SendSpamHere.ORG>  m In article <VCtA8.31416$gd5.10719128@typhoon.southeast.rr.com>, "Kenneth Farmer" <kfarmer@farmer.org> writes:n >cJ >http://www.crn.com/Sections/BreakingNews/BreakingNews.asp?ArticleID=35060  J It appears that www.crn.com has been eviscerated.  Probably running one ofJ the eviscerating OSs that Mikey "remove your head from your arse" CapellasK is promoting to the martini-guzzling mohogany-meeting-room marauders of the  corporate bottom-line.  J Time, think I, to get a new career -- something with a more promising fut- ure like vacuum tube TV repair.r --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COMn             5   "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?" I   ------------------------------  + Date: Fri, 03 May 2002 13:13:31 +0100 (MET)o9 From: Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> = Subject: CRN: Capellas: Linux, Windows Will 'Eviscerate' Unixn; Message-ID: <01KHAILLAYG08Y8ZDE@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>m  K > http://www.crn.com/Sections/BreakingNews/BreakingNews.asp?ArticleID=35060   H The comments are interesting, too, entitled "Capellas = waste of space" ! and "What are you smoking?".  :-)g  D Changing topic, there is a link on this page to an article entitled A "Microsoft Execs Defend Media Player".  This is more of the same r@ antitrust stuff.  Perhaps someone can tell me what I am missing.  F I am no fan of Microsoft, mainly because the products are low quality H and because Microsoft deliberately ignores public standards.  It's also H probably true that Microsoft hasn't always behaved legally with respect I to the competition, but I can't say anything about this since I am not a u0 lawyer and don't know the legal issues involved.  I What I don't understand is the drive to make Windows more modular, so as  C to allow competing web browsers etc a fair competition against the DH Microsoft products.  Whether or not this is technically possible, would @ be a good idea etc is beside the point.  It seems to me that if G Microsoft wants to sell a "package system", then that's their choice.  HB By stating that the "playing field" is Windows, those pushing for H modular Windows etc are merely confirming that Windows is the only game G in town.  This is the problem which led to the complaints in the first 	C place.  By "officially" saying that the place to compete is in the iF Windows market, one puts Windows up on a pedestal where it should not A be.  The goal should be competition everywhere, not only between  < individual models working in an OS which has no competition.  H If a car company sells a car as a package deal, that's fine.  One can't @ expect company A to support, in any sense of the term, a driver F replacing the engine with one from company B.  Whether or not this is E technically possible, would be a good idea etc is beside the point.  y> Competition should be between package-deal cars or, if no car F manufacturer makes good engines, then the package-deal car which best G allows swappable engines will gain the upper hand in the competition.  IH The driver should decide if he wants a particular package deal or if he D wants to choose a car which will allow him to modify it a bit.  Why G should a particular maker of cars be forced to support other engines?  cB Competition between engines is useless if there is no competition 
 between cars.l  F Of course I realise that a lot of the incompatibility between Windows @ and modules from places other than Microsoft is not technically I necessary, but is done intentionally by Microsoft.  If people don't like eG it, THEN THEY SHOULDN'T BUY MICROSOFT.  It seems the wrong thing to do rF to hope to get this behaviour changed through legal means, completely B apart from the fact that in practice this is almost impossible to 5 implement, and certainly not without a lot of effort.f   ------------------------------   Date: 3 May 2002 13:45:28 -0100h* From: "Michael Kraemer" <M.Kraemer@gsi.de>A Subject: Re: CRN: Capellas: Linux, Windows Will 'Eviscerate' Unix 0 Message-ID: <3CD29478.MD-1.4.4.M.Kraemer@gsi.de>   > --Q > VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COMq
 >            	7 >   "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?" C   In held 'twas in I, isn't it ?   ------------------------------   Date: 3 May 2002 07:43:29 -0500P- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) A Subject: Re: CRN: Capellas: Linux, Windows Will 'Eviscerate' Unixn3 Message-ID: <U6ZcBe7vDfG0@eisner.encompasserve.org>S  P In article <00A0D5F8.AD178E86@SendSpamHere.ORG>, system@SendSpamHere.ORG writes:o > In article <VCtA8.31416$gd5.10719128@typhoon.southeast.rr.com>, "Kenneth Farmer" <kfarmer@farmer.org> writes:  >>K >>http://www.crn.com/Sections/BreakingNews/BreakingNews.asp?ArticleID=35060: > 3 > It appears that www.crn.com has been eviscerated.	  7 But it certainly took long enough to load a blank page.e  7 I have never heard of "CRN" before, and now I know why.	   ------------------------------   Date: 3 May 2002 09:34:31 -0700L6 From: mgattaura@collins-stewart.com (Mandeep Gattaura)) Subject: Re: DCPS Help Required..........d= Message-ID: <781290e2.0205030834.46364f4b@posting.google.com>S  @ I decided to ditch the previous postscript file, and use xpdf toF translate my PDF document to a postscript form. I have tried modifyingE the output so that it can be inserted into the TLB file, but now I aml@ not getting anything printed.... this is a sample of what I have	 done.....	  = The top of the file looks like this I have added the showpageeB redefinition to the XPDF dictionary, which is then included in the" PaintProc part of the definition..   32 dict dup begino /BBox [0 0 595 842] defL /FormType 1 def  /Matrix [1 0 0 1 0 0] defE$ %%BeginResource: procset xpdf 1.00 0 /xpdf 75 dict def xpdf begin % PDF special statea  /old_showpage /showpage load def	 /showpage  { old_showpage    contract_note execformo } defh /pdfDictSize 14 def1 /pdfSetup {    3 1 roll 2 array astore    /setpagedevice where {     pop 3 dict begin       /PageSize exch def       /ImagingBBox null def08       /Policies 1 dict dup begin /PageSize 3 def end def       /Duplex exch def .E .N .R /PaintProc { begin xpdf begin pdfStartPage [] 0 d 0 iR 0 je      E at the end of the file I have used the defineresource command to name:	 the form.T  , /contract_note exch /Form defineresource pop  C Now when I do my Print/form= statement with a dummy postscript data	) file, no form is printed - just the data.(  > I know that the question of creating the form has already beenD answered, and the help has been greatly appreciated. We have approx.F 50 forms currently used by our OCE system. We can get the files to PDFF format, but need to be then able to transfer the PDF's into postscriptB forms quickly. The company are not overly keen on out sourcing theD form creation as then a changes required to the forms will then haveD to be out-sourced again. We want to keep the form creation simple as> we don't want to tie developers/systems manager/operators tied+ creating the postscript forms from scratch.    ------------------------------  + Date: Fri, 03 May 2002 09:49:18 +0100 (MET)I9 From: Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>B! Subject: Re: Deathbed confession?	; Message-ID: <01KHABWGD9C28ZG5L9@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>	  ) bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski) wrote:	  E > it will appear though in 2005 ... with the name itanium 3 on it ...w  G I hereby publicly offer you $1000 if you can demonstrate that this has R  happened before the end of 2005.  F I'm pretty sure that if you don't offer me $1000 if I can demonstrate H before the end of 2005 that this has NOT happened, then folks here will 2 take you even less seriously than they already do.  I Definition of "demonstrate"?  Well, an executable built on a given ALPHA 5I always runs on later versions.  Thus, a fair definition of "demonstrate" xD is running an executable from my current ALPHA on Itanium 3 without F binary translation etc.  If this is not the case, then Alpha will not 1 have lived on in Itanium in any meaningful sense.t   ------------------------------   Date: 3 May 2002 07:09:27 -07004( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)! Subject: Re: Deathbed confession?== Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0205030609.46584cd8@posting.google.com>r  | Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> wrote in message news:<01KHABWGD9C28ZG5L9@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>...+ > bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski) wrote:t > G > > it will appear though in 2005 ... with the name itanium 3 on it ...: > I > I hereby publicly offer you $1000 if you can demonstrate that this has 	" > happened before the end of 2005. > H > I'm pretty sure that if you don't offer me $1000 if I can demonstrate J > before the end of 2005 that this has NOT happened, then folks here will 4 > take you even less seriously than they already do. > K > Definition of "demonstrate"?  Well, an executable built on a given ALPHA bK > always runs on later versions.  Thus, a fair definition of "demonstrate" ;F > is running an executable from my current ALPHA on Itanium 3 without H > binary translation etc.  If this is not the case, then Alpha will not 3 > have lived on in Itanium in any meaningful sense.o  ? better get out your check book!  This latest itanic update from6
 Bill Todd ...t  
 Reason #4:  E Bob Ceculski was right after all:  Intel is frantically scrambling torB release Alpha in McKinley clothing, and is really, really close toH accomplishing this truly unbelievable feat.  Unfortunately, while it hasI already succeeded in getting the processor to process instructions out ofmH order, it has yet to figure out how to make any sense out of the result,J which currently more resembles a grab-bag than anything that could executeL an algorithm.  The existing EPIC and new Alpha teams are assiduously workingK on a meeting of the minds that could solve this problem, and reportedly are	H *very* close to creating a common language in which they can communicate8 with each other (an important milestone by any measure).   Bill   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 03 May 2002 14:15:43 GMTO* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>! Subject: Re: Deathbed confession? @ Message-ID: <jYwA8.56819$Lj.4225223@bin4.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>  5 "Bob Ceculski" <bob@instantwhip.com> wrote in message 7 news:d7791aa1.0205030609.46584cd8@posting.google.com...$F > Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> wrote in message7 news:<01KHABWGD9C28ZG5L9@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>... - > > bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski) wrote:  > >nI > > > it will appear though in 2005 ... with the name itanium 3 on it ...h > >SJ > > I hereby publicly offer you $1000 if you can demonstrate that this has$ > > happened before the end of 2005. > >sI > > I'm pretty sure that if you don't offer me $1000 if I can demonstrateTK > > before the end of 2005 that this has NOT happened, then folks here willr6 > > take you even less seriously than they already do. > >tL > > Definition of "demonstrate"?  Well, an executable built on a given ALPHAL > > always runs on later versions.  Thus, a fair definition of "demonstrate"G > > is running an executable from my current ALPHA on Itanium 3 withoutnI > > binary translation etc.  If this is not the case, then Alpha will nott5 > > have lived on in Itanium in any meaningful sense.0 >0A > better get out your check book!  This latest itanic update from- > Bill Todd ...-  K Bob's posts are usually far too inane to bother responding to, and this oneeI is no exception.  However, since he has seen fit to repeat it more than auD half-dozen times now, I do wish to point out (for the benefit of theK humor-impaired) that my material that he keeps quoting was sarcastic rather H than meant literally:  I think Bob's an idiot, in this matter as well as most others.   - bill   ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 3 May 2002 11:33:10 -05001 From: "Dave Gudewicz" <david.gudewicz@abbott.com>t! Subject: Re: Deathbed confession?t8 Message-ID: <aaue82$58o$1@fizban.fizban.pprd.abbott.com>  I I believe the correct term is "PowerPointLess".  Over the years I've seentI almost everything run on a slide projector of some sort.  I'll guess mosts here have 2.   Dave...   : "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message& news:3CD21BDC.56921EC2@videotron.ca... > "Terry C. Shannon" wrote:rE > > Word has it that SMT is easier to implement in PowerPoint than in  silicon.L > > And as for EV6, DEC's original Alpha roadmap had the 21264 materializing in	 > > 1995._ >_ >.L > How much of Alpha delays were caused by true technological issues, and howK > much was caused by funding which forced the development to be spread overe ac > longer period ?y >pI > If Alpha had been given the unlimited funding that Intel gives the IA64u folks,1 > how much more "on time" would Alpha have been ?    ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 3 May 2002 13:13:45 -0400* From: "rob kas" <rob@paychoice.nospam.com>! Subject: Re: Deathbed confession?z3 Message-ID: <3cd2c592$0$3567$8e9e3842@news.atx.net>r  
  Here Here  5 "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote in messagea: news:jYwA8.56819$Lj.4225223@bin4.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com... >I7 > "Bob Ceculski" <bob@instantwhip.com> wrote in message 9 > news:d7791aa1.0205030609.46584cd8@posting.google.com... H > > Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> wrote in message9 > news:<01KHABWGD9C28ZG5L9@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>...a/ > > > bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski) wrote:  > > > K > > > > it will appear though in 2005 ... with the name itanium 3 on it ...  > > >,L > > > I hereby publicly offer you $1000 if you can demonstrate that this has& > > > happened before the end of 2005. > > >lK > > > I'm pretty sure that if you don't offer me $1000 if I can demonstrateeH > > > before the end of 2005 that this has NOT happened, then folks here will8 > > > take you even less seriously than they already do. > > >tH > > > Definition of "demonstrate"?  Well, an executable built on a given ALPHA @ > > > always runs on later versions.  Thus, a fair definition of
 "demonstrate"rI > > > is running an executable from my current ALPHA on Itanium 3 withoutsK > > > binary translation etc.  If this is not the case, then Alpha will note7 > > > have lived on in Itanium in any meaningful sense.i > > C > > better get out your check book!  This latest itanic update fromh > > Bill Todd ...i > I > Bob's posts are usually far too inane to bother responding to, and thisc oneoK > is no exception.  However, since he has seen fit to repeat it more than aeF > half-dozen times now, I do wish to point out (for the benefit of theF > humor-impaired) that my material that he keeps quoting was sarcastic ratherJ > than meant literally:  I think Bob's an idiot, in this matter as well as > most others. >7 > - bill >b >. >p   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 03 May 2002 17:47:34 GMTc5 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com>u! Subject: Re: Deathbed confession?a9 Message-ID: <W2AA8.28$AU2.500890@cacnews.cac.cpqcorp.net>   = JF Mezei wrote in message <3CD21BDC.56921EC2@videotron.ca>...' >"Terry C. Shannon" wrote:D >> Word has it that SMT is easier to implement in PowerPoint than in silicon.K >> And as for EV6, DEC's original Alpha roadmap had the 21264 materializing  in >> 1995. >r >gK >How much of Alpha delays were caused by true technological issues, and howeL >much was caused by funding which forced the development to be spread over a >longer period ? >u  K All tech issues.  Sorry, it wasn't a lack of funding.  EV6 was unbelievablelJ in how hard it was to get right.  The number of problems and the number ofJ passes of the chip is quite astonishing (like running out of namespace forL the revisions).  Debugging the O/S software was a nightmare (Hmm.  The PC isJ sort-of like a Hiesenberg test.).  Think of all the things that were brandH new (like speculative execution, and the new lock method) - and how manyF things broke because of bad assumptions by software programmers - justI finding missing memory barriers was a mess, let alone figuring out the mpRK lock problems.  Plus with the new chip, came new platform hardware - so yougG are debugging chip problems & platform problems.  EV7 was still finding. latent EV68 core problems IIRC.>  J Every chip we've done since (and including) the nvax has taken longer thanK expected with almost no exceptions.  EV7 and Marvel were done by (IMHO) one.J of the *best* CPU designers we ever had (PB), and one of the *best* systemI (DD) and I/O (SD) architects ever... and they are hitting the pessimistictE schedule (one they came up with based on past history) instead of thel optimistic one.n  H >If Alpha had been given the unlimited funding that Intel gives the IA64 folks,0 >how much more "on time" would Alpha have been ?  K Perhaps the only what-if of any interest is what-if we had not sold off ourn FAB.  J EV8 might have been not-all-that-bad given that it would look like a fancyK EV7.  I doubt that you would have seen a lot of O/S exploitation of the SMTdI features for quite a while -- except to view the chips as 4 virtual CPU'st (SMP not SMT).   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 03 May 2002 15:40:44 GMTn+ From: Roland Barmettler <rob@bbp.ch.remove>r' Subject: DECserver 100 and reverse LAT?s7 Message-ID: <20020503174041.12c0eaff.rob@bbp.ch.remove>a   Hi  < Does anyone know if a DECserver 100 is reverse-LAT capable ?E I have no documentation for it, but managed to set a port to "remote"h@ instead of "local" like for a VT. However, I have no clue how toC setup the DECserver 100 to broadcast that service so that it can bet' seen with e.g. "mc latcp show service".    Thanks for any help.   - Roland  F --------------- bbp - Biveroni Batschelet Partners AG ----------------:              Bahnhofstrasse 28, CH-5401 Baden, SwitzerlandF ----------------------------------------------------------------------   ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 3 May 2002 12:33:23 -0400* From: WILLIAM WEBB <WWEBB1@email.usps.gov>+ Subject: RE: DECserver 100 and reverse LAT?e- Message-ID: <0033000062582987000002L072*@MHS>   ' =0AI don't think so, and I believe thata# you can find this discussed here ato+ some point by going to groups.google.searcha' and looking in the comp.os.vms archive.    WWWebb     -----Original Message-----/ From: Info-VAX-Request@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNET # Sent: Friday, May 03, 2002 12:11 PM B To: Webb, William W Raleigh, NC; Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNET' Subject: DECserver 100 and reverse LAT?      Hi  < Does anyone know if a DECserver 100 is reverse-LAT capable ?E I have no documentation for it, but managed to set a port to "remote"o@ instead of "local" like for a VT. However, I have no clue how toC setup the DECserver 100 to broadcast that service so that it can bea' seen with e.g. "mc latcp show service".    Thanks for any help.   - Roland  F --------------- bbp - Biveroni Batschelet Partners AG ----------------:              Bahnhofstrasse 28, CH-5401 Baden, SwitzerlandG ----------------------------------------------------------------------=a   ------------------------------    Date: 03 May 2002 12:53:33 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>C Subject: Re: DECUS/EncompassUS Survey -- no longer assuming Windowsv- Message-ID: <87wuulx25u.fsf@prep.synonet.com>g  ) carl@gerg.tamu.edu (Carl Perkins) writes:   F > This does assume an even distribution of birthdays in the populationF > in question, which probably isn't quite true. The difference is withD > reality is probably fairly small. It also ignores 1900 not being aE > leap year even though there are still a few people alive from then.rA > This should also not skew the statistics much - especially wheniE > considering how likely it is that someone who is at least 102 yearsE > old will respond to the poll.e  A 1st of March has the highest number of legal births by a largeisho margin.    -- c< Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.l@                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 03 May 2002 10:23:19 GMTA From: system@SendSpamHere.ORG O Subject: Re: Does anyone have example code for finding the BG device associated 0 Message-ID: <00A0D5F3.72BE7EB6@SendSpamHere.ORG>  h In article <2MAY02.22365845@kort.waisman.wisc.edu>, karcher@kort.waisman.wisc.edu (Carl Karcher) writes:A >In a previous article, Don Sykes <annonymous@pacbell.net> wrote:,! >->system@SendSpamHere.ORG wrote:e >->> D[ >->> In article <3CD1904D.63B8D871@pacbell.net>, Don Sykes <annonymous@pacbell.net> writes:, >->> > >->> >Yes, quick & dirty:  >->> >/ >->> >$ FULLNAME = f$getjpi("0","tt_accpornam").( >->> >$ PORT = f$element(2,":",FULLNAME), >->> >$ spawn/nolog/out=bg.log tcpip sho dev+ >->> >$ search/nohead bg.log "23   ''PORT'": >->>  4 >->> ... but some versions didn't have an ACCNORNAM. >-> L >->Really? I think I've been using this since VMS 6.1 and I'm using 7.2 now. > I >I don't recall the loss of tt_accpornam for telnet connections either. IaF >think by "some versions" Brian meant versions of UCX/TCPIP.  He mightG >also be referring to the lack of the SYS$REM_ID logical in TCPIP V5.0x. >which was restored in 5.1.o  K Now that you mention it, it may have been the SYS$REM_ID logical that I was  remembering.   --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COMi            t5   "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?" d   ------------------------------   Date: 3 May 2002 11:29:27 +0100lC From: vaxinf@chclu.chemie.uni-konstanz.de (Eberhard Heuser-Hofmann)F) Subject: dvdwrite for openvms coming soon - Message-ID: <3cd25877.0@news.uni-konstanz.de>u  	 Hi Folks,o  ? my dvdwriter program for OpenVMS/Alpha using a Pioneer DVR-A03   will be finish soon.  ? In combination with a Acard SCSI-IDE-Bridge I'm able to produce J DVD-RW/DVD-R on a DEC 3000-400. I have problems to read the DVD using thisF bridge, but on a Alphastation 433 with it's  IDE-Interface there is noB problem at all. If you have an Alphastation you can burn DVDs withH VMS-Filestructure and read them without any special software in spite of
 the dqdriver.i   Eberhard   ------------------------------    Date: 03 May 2002 10:57:24 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com> Subject: Re: EDT or EVEv- Message-ID: <87vga6x7jf.fsf@prep.synonet.com>   + P.Young@unsw.EDU.AU (Patrick Young) writes:r  E > I'm not here to argue which editor is better - (although the recorddE > size issue can be a show stopper for EDT - especially when you havesE > users creating files using PC products over Advanced Server shares)b@ > - as I use both and would be very upset if EDT was removed. MyD > original posting suggested the new user learn *both* (or TECO :-).  E I used TECO for, ah, some years, then was shafted by no compatabilityaE mode and no TECO-32. But I did get a copy of Emacs V14.something thatn< ran very nicly on an 8550 :) And EDT did a wonderfull job of installing it. :)p   -- r< Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.m@                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------    Date: 03 May 2002 10:44:44 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com> Subject: Re: EDT or EVE2- Message-ID: <87znzix84j.fsf@prep.synonet.com>   0 SPAMSINK2001@YAHOO.COM (Alan E. Feldman) writes:  5 > And please pardon my ignorance, what is or was KED?'  D KED, aka K52 or K100 was a very cut down EDT v2 for small memorylessE systems. ED2 had all sorts of neat stuff v1 did not have, but running  in 8K was not one of them.  C BTW, the guy who did EDT v2 brought us the LK201 and the re-mapablea# (pronounced 'restorable') ESC key. r   -- l< Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda. @                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------   Date: 3 May 2002 07:47:55 -0500R- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler).) Subject: Re: Fix for EDT emulation in EVE 3 Message-ID: <cfeGXyDxfvmr@eisner.encompasserve.org>r  n In article <343f30ae.0205021550.3a59a2dd@posting.google.com>, SPAMSINK2001@YAHOO.COM (Alan E. Feldman) writes: > G > O-KAY. How do you do a global substitute in EVE in "batch"? In EDT, I.B > would make a file called FIXIT.COM that contained something like > D    TECO.  OK, you can use EDT, but it just shows why everyone shouldB    know more than one good editor.  Too bad they're all on VMS and    none on UNIX or Widows.   ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 3 May 2002 11:12:39 -0400- From: "Peter Weaver" <peter.weaver@stelco.ca>e) Subject: Re: Fix for EDT emulation in EVEP5 Message-ID: <aau9tn$dnorg$1@ID-141708.news.dfncis.de>f  ; "Alan E. Feldman" <SPAMSINK2001@YAHOO.COM> wrote in messagec7 news:343f30ae.0205021550.3a59a2dd@posting.google.com...e >...G > O-KAY. How do you do a global substitute in EVE in "batch"? In EDT, IiB > would make a file called FIXIT.COM that contained something like >t > $   EDIT/EDT LOGIN.COM
 > S-MODE-BLAHe > EXIT LOGIN.TMP
 > $   EXIT  J I would do exactly the same thing :) There are some things that are easierK to do in EDT than they are in TPU. But then there are some things easier inaJ TPU than EDT. I have production code running that uses both EDT and TPU inJ command procedures. Since I started with VMS 3.7 in 1984 I am too young toJ know about TECO, but I understand there are some things that are easier to" do with TECO than with EDT or TPU.   >...G > and that would accomplish the same thing. I tried putting the REPLACEnE > command in a .TPU file and running that with the /COMMAND/NODISPLAYrB > qualifiers, but it always complains about expecting symbols that& > aren't there and aborts compilation.  J The problem there is that REPLACE is a verb that is created in EVE. If youL tried the command I gave before then you were only running pure TPU, none ofH EVE's extensions were in there. EVE is an editor interface that is built
 using TPU.   >wB > How do you do this with EVE? I'm not saying you can't do it. I'm' > simply asking *how* to do it. Thanks.o  L To do it in EVE is messy since EVE really wants a terminal to interact with,% to do it in TPU then see Rob's posts.e  ) Using EVE would look something like this;o  
 $ ty x.com# $ assign sys$command sys$input/userr, $ edit/tpu/command=xx.xx/nodisplay login.com $ ! End of X.COM
 $ ty xx.xx eve_replace ("mode", blah"); eve_write_file ("login.tmp"); 	 eve_exit;d $ ! End of xx.xxK $ @X ! Keep hitting <CR> until you see the command prompt come back becauseeG you don't see the prompts asking you if you want to make the changes :)o  H NOTE: In case anyone missed it, there is a :) at the end of that, beforeL anybody jumps in and says that doing this is wrong let me say that I would nJ ot use this code anywhere, it is just an example of how messy it can be toG do this in EVE. If you have something you want to do with TPU in batch,uL write the complete TPU routines like Rob showed in his posts rather than use EVE.   -- Peter WeaverL Opinions are my own, and do not reflect the opinions of my employer, nor theK company that it sub-contracts to, nor the company that it sub-contracts to.    ------------------------------   Date: 3 May 2002 10:48:39 -0700e. From: SPAMSINK2001@YAHOO.COM (Alan E. Feldman)) Subject: Re: Fix for EDT emulation in EVEt= Message-ID: <343f30ae.0205030948.325d4e11@posting.google.com>t  f young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) wrote in message news:<sGZMTXAgO9vM@eisner.encompasserve.org>...p > In article <343f30ae.0205021550.3a59a2dd@posting.google.com>, SPAMSINK2001@YAHOO.COM (Alan E. Feldman) writes:n > > "Peter Weaver" <peter.weaver@stelco.ca> wrote in message news:<aam7om$c3jnv$1@ID-141708.news.dfncis.de>...A > >> "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote in messager& > >> news:3CCDF409.7FE15E62@fsi.net...	 > >> >...y$ >  [SQMC] (some quoted material cut) >  .K > >> > Then again, scripting TPU/EVE in batch (like you can with EDT) wouldi% > >> > remain rather a challenge, no?1	 > >> >...2 > >> r= > >> No problem, just make sure you use /NODISPLAY like this;TE > >>    $ EDIT/TPU/NODISPLAY/SECTION=PRW$UTL:TRIM_LINES/NOCOMMAND 'P1r > >  > > I > > O-KAY. How do you do a global substitute in EVE in "batch"? In EDT, I D > > would make a file called FIXIT.COM that contained something like > >  > > $   EDIT/EDT LOGIN.COM > > S-MODE-BLAHh > > EXIT LOGIN.TMP > > $   EXIT > > = > > and this would replace all occurrences of MODE with BLAH.u > > J > > I could also place just the EDT commands in a file (call it FIXIT.EDT) > > and run  > > $ > >     $ EDIT/EDT/COMMAND=FIXIT.EDT > > I > > and that would accomplish the same thing. I tried putting the REPLACERG > > command in a .TPU file and running that with the /COMMAND/NODISPLAYnD > > qualifiers, but it always complains about expecting symbols that( > > aren't there and aborts compilation. > > D > > How do you do this with EVE? I'm not saying you can't do it. I'm) > > simply asking *how* to do it. Thanks.4 > >  > C > 	The exact example of what you are after is in the documentation.cI > 	Scroll down (or search) until you find GSR.TPU (global search replace)> > 	and batch usage is nearby.  > B > http://www.openvms.compaq.com:8000/73final/6018/6018pro_001.html     Thanks for your help.n  E 1.) (RE GSR.TPU:) All that just to do a global replace operation whennB EDT does it in one very readable line? I guess that's the price ofC progress, just like losing the great 12-inch square album cover arto when music CD's came out.e  E 2.) Please excuse me if I am missing something obvious, but how/wherey< do you specify the old string and new string? I got the code? "replace_wildcard.com" from your subsequent post to work, but I @ checked GSR.TPU in the docs and don't see how to make that work.  C 3.) Also, with EDT you can do multiple substitutions (and any otherA: EDT line mode commands) with only one file open operation:    $    EDIT/EDT/NOCOMMAND yourfile s-abc-def-wh s-old2-new2-wh s-old3-new3-wh exit  E With TPU it looks like you have to open the file once for each globalaF replace operation and, at least for global replace operations, write aD whole page of code for each line of EDT code. (OK, you don't have toB actually write it in this case, but you do have to hunt for it and fetch it and set it up.)  C 4.) Also, is there no way to use EVE's line commands (commands thatlD you type after pressing the "Do" key, i.e.) in a script? In EDT, youE can type S/OLDSTRING/NEWSTRING/WH or any other EDT line mode commands F at the * prompt or run it in a command file as in the above example. I? guess you can't do that with TPU. You have to learn yet anotherz	 language.u  , Thanks again for your help with EVE and TPU.   Disclaimer: JMHO Alan E. Feldmanq" afeldman atski gfigroup dotski com   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 03 May 2002 08:24:11 -0700r' From: David Mathog <mathog@caltech.edu>i Subject: Re: HP vote cleared+ Message-ID: <3CD2AB9B.B3A8A447@caltech.edu>d   John Smith wrote:e > M > Given the Curly memo presented into evidence during the Delaware trial, youhM > know - "At current course and speed we will fail.", want to lay any bets aspH > to how long before Curly gets the golden handshake and shown the door?  M Why, 6 months, of course.  When it comes to Curly there is no other interval.i     Regards,   David Mathog mathog@caltech.edu   ------------------------------   Date: 3 May 2002 06:02:44 -0700f( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski) Subject: I was right again!T= Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0205030502.46c6f3a3@posting.google.com>h  r "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote in message news:<hGiA8.47113$Lj.3347858@bin4.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>... >  > Reason #4: > G > Bob Ceculski was right after all:  Intel is frantically scrambling toeD > release Alpha in McKinley clothing, and is really, really close toJ > accomplishing this truly unbelievable feat.  Unfortunately, while it hasK > already succeeded in getting the processor to process instructions out of J > order, it has yet to figure out how to make any sense out of the result,L > which currently more resembles a grab-bag than anything that could executeN > an algorithm.  The existing EPIC and new Alpha teams are assiduously workingM > on a meeting of the minds that could solve this problem, and reportedly are J > *very* close to creating a common language in which they can communicate: > with each other (an important milestone by any measure). >  > - bill  G I guess I wasn't so clueless after all, hugh?  I expect an apology fromn= everyone who said I was clueless, ignorant, imbicile ... etc. H This wasn't hard to see ... Q finding a bug, EPIC, the first performanceI reports, EPIC, the dissapearing white paper on the Q site from a retiringoG 25 year DEC engineer who stated in detail why DEC chose RISC over EPIC,iH and of course if EPIC was doable, why not in the early 80's when it hit?H If the alpha engineers can't get alpha and epic to mesh, then Intel willH have to forget about their face and start worrying about their rear endsF and drop epic and use pure EV8, and Carly should then port hpux to theE tru64 core ... if Intel fails to do this, I predict they will become oH second to AMD, and eventually blow away like DEC and Q ... and IBM power will rule the high end ...  < What about it Terry, is there room for "Ceculski knows HPC"?   ------------------------------  + Date: Fri, 03 May 2002 15:23:13 +0100 (MET)-9 From: Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>- Subject: Re: I was right again! ; Message-ID: <01KHANI2AYJC8Y8ZDE@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>-  I > I guess I wasn't so clueless after all, hugh?  I expect an apology from D > everyone who said I was clueless, ignorant, imbicile ... etc. ThisE > wasn't hard to see ... Q finding a bug, EPIC, the first performance0B > reports, EPIC, the dissapearing white paper on the Q site from aG > retiring 25 year DEC engineer who stated in detail why DEC chose RISCoH > over EPIC, and of course if EPIC was doable, why not in the early 80'sG > when it hit? If the alpha engineers can't get alpha and epic to mesh,RJ > then Intel will have to forget about their face and start worrying aboutG > their rear ends and drop epic and use pure EV8, and Carly should thenTF > port hpux to the tru64 core ... if Intel fails to do this, I predictI > they will become second to AMD, and eventually blow away like DEC and Q / > ... and IBM power will rule the high end ...   > ? > What about it Terry, is there room for "Ceculski knows HPC"? t  F Perhaps in the satire pages in Hustler?  As documented in the film THEE PEOPLE VERSUS LARRY FLYNT, Flynt once poked fun at Jerry Falwell in asF satirical article.  Falwell challenged this is court, and Flynt won onF the grounds that it was so blatantly obvious that it could not even beA construed to be the truth that Falwell couldn't claim that he had2 suffered any libel.  :-) p  E Actually, Larry Flynt is probably as good a source as any (certainly nE better than some folks in this forum) about future chip strategies atmC HP, but folks: don't hope that Carly will be the centerfold anytimee soon.    ------------------------------    Date: 03 May 2002 11:14:16 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>9 Subject: Re: Inquirer even says Alpha in Itanium in 2005!n- Message-ID: <87r8ktylbr.fsf@prep.synonet.com>t    david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk writes:  $ > Which partners and what hardware ?    B > HP , COMPAQ and SGI can continue what they were (because of IA64@ > performance) having to do anyway - extending the life of theirD > existing systems.  They've lost the money spent on porting to IA64E > but as in the case of VMS the porting effort should help in portingd > to either Hammer or Power.  B SGI have reformed their CPU group. The HP engineers, when they sawD that the unobtainium was also itanic, and that the EV6 was for real,A wanted to dump the itanic and go with a OoO HPPA design. They got  stomped on by managment.  -  C > If HP does take over Compaq then they get a lot of hardware whichSF > was designed with Alpha in mind. They still have the rights to AlphaF > and the EV8 designs.  They might be able to do a deal with Intel and/ > get the engineering team working on it again..  C > Time has passed but probably not too much. Instead of IBM's Powero@ > chasing EV8 it might be a more even race or EV8 chasing Power.  A Now that is a facinating thought... And it is how HP could get top& be at the top of the SPEC heap, again.   --  < Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.f@                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------  + Date: Fri, 03 May 2002 16:14:47 +0100 (MET) 9 From: Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>i  Subject: IT'S A JOKE, FOLKS!!!!!; Message-ID: <01KHAPAL4R848Y8ZDE@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>e  E > read this from Bill Todd's latest McKinley status posting and weep!w9 > maybe you ought to change that to Buckingham Palace ...e >  > Reason #4: > G > Bob Ceculski was right after all:  Intel is frantically scrambling to D > release Alpha in McKinley clothing, and is really, really close toJ > accomplishing this truly unbelievable feat.  Unfortunately, while it hasK > already succeeded in getting the processor to process instructions out ofaJ > order, it has yet to figure out how to make any sense out of the result,L > which currently more resembles a grab-bag than anything that could executeN > an algorithm.  The existing EPIC and new Alpha teams are assiduously workingM > on a meeting of the minds that could solve this problem, and reportedly are J > *very* close to creating a common language in which they can communicate: > with each other (an important milestone by any measure).  - Bob, this is TONGUE-IN-CHEEK, SATIRE, HUMOUR!u   ------------------------------    Date: 03 May 2002 12:25:31 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>8 Subject: Re: Itanium 2 hits ... Itanium 3 will be Alpha!- Message-ID: <87adrhyi10.fsf@prep.synonet.com>o  3 "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com> writes:x  A > ;-} although I'm not sure that many of our non-UK denizens willt' > divine the meaning of that assertion.t  , They could ask the local Speaker to Animals.  c :)   -- w< Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda. @                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------   Date: 3 May 2002 07:03:10 -0700a( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)8 Subject: Re: Itanium 2 hits ... Itanium 3 will be Alpha!= Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0205030603.603fbe47@posting.google.com>e   Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <andrew_nospam.remove_this.harrison@sun.com> wrote in message news:<3CC967E7.2080101@sun.com>... > Doc.Cypher wrote:- > 9 > > NOTE: This message was sent thru a mail2news gateway.e< > > No effort was made to verify the identity of the sender.< > > -------------------------------------------------------- > > : > > On Fri, 26 Apr 2002, mustang@ucc.asn.au.invalid wrote: > > - > >>Bob Ceculski <bob@instantwhip.com> wrote:HH > >>: I told you J.F. and Bill "the genius" Todd that Alpha will show upL > >>: not to far down the road ... no doubt Itanium 3 will be the beginnings > >>: of Alpha EV8!  > >> > > O > > Just where in your latest quoted article does it make any mention of Alpha?T > > K > > BTW, since you have a surplus of punctuation marks why don't you donates; > > them to another newsgroup where people have a shortage?  > >  > >  > > " > >>Bob, kindly get over yourself.E > >>If you want to poke fun at these two gentlemen, do it via e-mail.  > >> > > H > > I for one certainly would not want to encourage that sort of action. > >  > < > It seems unfair to single JF and bill out for this kind of9 > SPAM attack, nearly everyone else that has responded to = > Bobs posts on the Alpha IA64 subject seems to disagree withx > him as well. > 6 > The best place for Bob may well be Hyde Park Corner. > 	 > Regardsc > Andrew Harrison1  C read this from Bill Todd's latest McKinley status posting and weep!a7 maybe you ought to change that to Buckingham Palace ...e  
 Reason #4:  E Bob Ceculski was right after all:  Intel is frantically scrambling toeB release Alpha in McKinley clothing, and is really, really close toH accomplishing this truly unbelievable feat.  Unfortunately, while it hasI already succeeded in getting the processor to process instructions out of H order, it has yet to figure out how to make any sense out of the result,J which currently more resembles a grab-bag than anything that could executeL an algorithm.  The existing EPIC and new Alpha teams are assiduously workingK on a meeting of the minds that could solve this problem, and reportedly areeH *very* close to creating a common language in which they can communicate8 with each other (an important milestone by any measure).   - bill   ------------------------------   Date: 3 May 2002 14:33:49 -0000P= From: Doc.Cypher <Use-Author-Supplied-Address-Header@[127.1]>s8 Subject: Re: Itanium 2 hits ... Itanium 3 will be Alpha!6 Message-ID: <20020503143349.23406.qmail@gacracker.org>  8 On 3 May 2002, bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski) wrote:   <snip>  D >read this from Bill Todd's latest McKinley status posting and weep!8 >maybe you ought to change that to Buckingham Palace ... >t >Reason #4:o >oF >Bob Ceculski was right after all:  Intel is frantically scrambling toC >release Alpha in McKinley clothing, and is really, really close toaI >accomplishing this truly unbelievable feat.  Unfortunately, while it hasoJ >already succeeded in getting the processor to process instructions out ofI >order, it has yet to figure out how to make any sense out of the result,yK >which currently more resembles a grab-bag than anything that could execute M >an algorithm.  The existing EPIC and new Alpha teams are assiduously workingsL >on a meeting of the minds that could solve this problem, and reportedly areI >*very* close to creating a common language in which they can communicates9 >with each other (an important milestone by any measure).t  I I really don't want to believe that you're that gullible. If you believed G this was at all meant seriously I've got a bridge here I'd like to sell. you.     Doc. -- m6 The bigger the humbug, the better people will like it.K ~ Phineas Taylor Barnum.                             https://vmsbox.cjb.nete   ------------------------------  + Date: Fri, 03 May 2002 17:39:35 +0100 (MET) 9 From: Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> 8 Subject: Re: Itanium 2 hits ... Itanium 3 will be Alpha!; Message-ID: <01KHASGICFO08Y8ZDE@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>s  B > I really don't want to believe that you're that gullible. If youJ > believed this was at all meant seriously I've got a bridge here I'd like > to sell you. w  E Hey wait a minute!  Bob is spending all of his fortune on some Alpha s stock I'm selling him!  :-)    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 03 May 2002 16:45:54 +0100 U From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <andrew_nospam.harrison_remove_this@sun#.com>t8 Subject: Re: Itanium 2 hits ... Itanium 3 will be Alpha!0 Message-ID: <aaubbi$ka4$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   Doc.Cypher wrote:   : > On 3 May 2002, bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski) wrote: >  > <snip> > E >>read this from Bill Todd's latest McKinley status posting and weep!t9 >>maybe you ought to change that to Buckingham Palace .... >> >>Reason #4: >>G >>Bob Ceculski was right after all:  Intel is frantically scrambling toED >>release Alpha in McKinley clothing, and is really, really close toJ >>accomplishing this truly unbelievable feat.  Unfortunately, while it hasK >>already succeeded in getting the processor to process instructions out of5J >>order, it has yet to figure out how to make any sense out of the result,L >>which currently more resembles a grab-bag than anything that could executeN >>an algorithm.  The existing EPIC and new Alpha teams are assiduously workingM >>on a meeting of the minds that could solve this problem, and reportedly areWJ >>*very* close to creating a common language in which they can communicate: >>with each other (an important milestone by any measure). >> > K > I really don't want to believe that you're that gullible. If you believedMI > this was at all meant seriously I've got a bridge here I'd like to sellu > you. >     < And I have a little 100 bedroom mansion called Buck house to> go with the bridge, now if I could only get Queeny to move out so that Bob can move in.  < There are also some guys in France who would like to talk to. Bob about the Eifel tower (this was real con).     Regardsi Andrew Harrisona     >  > Doc. >    ------------------------------   Date: 3 May 2002 07:54:38 -0000y= From: Doc.Cypher <Use-Author-Supplied-Address-Header@[127.1]>  Subject: Re: Itanium troublesm6 Message-ID: <20020503075438.13808.qmail@gacracker.org>  G On Fri, 03 May 2002, "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote:i >"Doc.Cypher" wrote:   <snip>  C >> Still looking to improve my 'nix skills, where do I sign up? :-)  >d >See: http://www.freebsd.org/   J I know, and will get round to it when finances permit purchase of a decentF new PC. Then the old one will get unixified. What I actually meant was% (jokingly) Bill Gunshannon's courses.r     Doc. -- ?6 The bigger the humbug, the better people will like it.K ~ Phineas Taylor Barnum.                             https://vmsbox.cjb.net    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 03 May 2002 13:01:30 -0400s2 From: Atlant Schmidt <atlantnospam@mindspring.com> Subject: Re: Itanium troubleso- Message-ID: <3CD2C26A.A7BB8B6@mindspring.com>.   Dan Allen wrote:  T >         Absolute garbage!  With few exceptions (mainly experienced Unix Sysadmins)Q >         my computer literate, college educated co-workers are unable to install S >         Linux or any other Unix system on their own.  They don't have a clue whatiR >         services they need/don't need, or how to properly configure what they doR >         need.  Without the GUI usability add-ons in Linux they couldn't even getR >         the system up!  This is not an opinion - this is my real-life experienceU >         providing support for these people. The only OS they even stand a chance ofeV >         getting up on their own is Windows in a standalone workstation configuration, >         with a single administrator logon.  D Next time, have them try FreeBSD disguised as MacOS/X. I'll bet theyF have no trouble at all installing that one. By the way, MacOS/X is nowF the Unix with the largest marketshare, and by far the largest share of Unix desktops.   Atlant   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 03 May 2002 14:10:17 +0200 2 From: "Dr. Otto Titze" <titze@ikp.tu-darmstadt.de>: Subject: Re: Mails with long lines (> 255 bytes) truncated3 Message-ID: <3CD27E29.9E4D06A4@ikp.tu-darmstadt.de>A   Hunter,7  7 I downloaded the files from [.MX042.patch] and replaced 
 mx_local.exe.i  < If I look at this mail in my VMS Mail account it is already 9 truncated there. Therefore it might not be a problem withp1 IUPOP3 as mentioned somewhere in this discussion.a   Regardsn Otto  ?,  -------------------------------------------, | Dr. Otto Titze, Kernphysik TUD           |, | Schlossgartenstr. 9, D-64289 Darmstadt   |, | titze@ikp.tu-darmstadt.de                |, | Tel: +49(6151)16-2916,FAX:16-4321        |,  -------------------------------------------   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 03 May 2002 16:18:30 GMTo- From: goathunter@goatley.com (Hunter Goatley)e: Subject: Re: Mails with long lines (> 255 bytes) truncated0 Message-ID: <3cd2b81a.80097083@news.process.com>  P On Fri, 03 May 2002 14:10:17 +0200, "Dr. Otto Titze" <titze@ikp.tu-darmstadt.de> wrote:   >Hunter, >l8 >I downloaded the files from [.MX042.patch] and replaced >mx_local.exe. >t= >If I look at this mail in my VMS Mail account it is already n: >truncated there. Therefore it might not be a problem with2 >IUPOP3 as mentioned somewhere in this discussion. >o< The patched image was supposed to not truncate.  If it does,> I apologize.  I no longer do any development on MX, so if this: is to be fixed for V4.2, somebody else will have to do it.   Hunter ------9 Hunter Goatley, Process Software, http://www.process.com/i8 goathunter@goatley.com    http://www.goatley.com/hunter/< New Robert R. McCammon site: http://www.RobertRMcCammon.com/   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 03 May 2002 11:11:00 +0100i From: paul.beaudoin@hsbc.comY Subject: Memo:  Re: Does anyone have example code for finding the BG device associated wi E Message-ID: <OF440A32B7.D6F4C4B7-ON80256BAE.003777AA@systems.uk.hsbc>n  A I have been trying to solve this problem also. The combination of 2 excursions and DHCP on the PC side means you can'tJ set up a $SET DISP/CREATE .... in your LOGIN.COM that will always work. IfJ I can determine the IP address you logged in from then this could be againJ automated. I can't say I have done intensive investigation but a good lookG at it does not reveal an obvious solution. Surely someone else has come G across this and either solved it (Yippee!) or can confirm that I shouldQ stop wasting my time....   Thanks   Paul        ' ** HSBC's website is at www.hsbc.com **u  D ********************************************************************B  This message and any attachments are confidential to the ordinaryB  user of the e-mail address to which it was addressed and may also>  be privileged. If you are not the addressee you may not copy,8  forward, disclose or use any part of the message or itsC  attachments and if you have received this message in error, pleasehB  notify the sender immediately by return e-mail and delete it from
  your system.t  =  Internet communications cannot be guaranteed to be secure oriA  error-free as information could be intercepted, corrupted, lost, >  arrive late or contain viruses. The sender therefore does not?  accept liability for any errors or omissions in the context ofn?  this message which arise as a result of Internet transmission.c  nD  Any opinions contained in this message are those of the author and ?  are not given or endorsed by the HSBC Group company or office I=  through which this message is sent unless otherwise clearly AA  indicated in this message and the authority of the author to so i3  bind the HSBC entity referred to is duly verified.,  D ********************************************************************   ------------------------------  + Date: Fri, 03 May 2002 15:30:53 +0100 (MET)c9 From: Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>wM Subject: Microsoft (was: RE: Capellas: Linux, Windows Will 'Eviscerate' Unix)a; Message-ID: <01KHANS5O4LE8Y8ZDE@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>r  B > What you are missing is the concept that a company which holds aI > monopoly in one area should not be allowed to leverage that monopoly ton > extend it to other areas.   C The reason they can leverage anything at all is the fact that they hG already have the de facto monopoply desktop OS.  It doesn't seem like a-; good idea to me to make it the de jure desktop OS as well. c  I > Microsoft holds an effective monopoly on desktop OSs.  It deliberately,mF > a while ago, used that monopoly to crush Netscape (not an OS, but anH > application), by not only bundling IE with Windows 'gratis' but makingG > it more difficult to integrate Netscape on the platform.  This is whycJ > many hold the view that Windows should be made sufficiently modular thatI > it will offer competitive *applications* (and, say, middleware) a level ) > playing field with Microsoft products.    I In practice: define "middleware", define "application", define "core OS" iI etc.  Another issue is the impossibility of finding hidden advantages to 6F Microsoft's own products.  Case in point: some folks here have argued 7 that a TCPIP stack should be considered part of the OS.t  F In some cases it might be good coding practice to have an application G and the OS cleanly separated.  In other cases, it might be good if the n& application is integrated into the OS.  B > Suggesting that if people prefer other applications to MicrosoftI > applications they should simply use a different platform to run them isVM > rather silly, if choosing a different platform is (by virtue of Microsoft'sg0 > monopoly in that area) not really an option.    H This mentality is the problem.  Of course people can use something else.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 03 May 2002 15:43:31 +0200lE From: Jan C. =?iso-8859-1?Q?Vorbr=FCggen?= <jvorbrueggen@mediasec.de>0Q Subject: Re: Microsoft (was: RE: Capellas: Linux, Windows Will 'Eviscerate' Unix)u+ Message-ID: <3CD29403.EC9033F0@mediasec.de>-  D > > Suggesting that if people prefer other applications to MicrosoftK > > applications they should simply use a different platform to run them is O > > rather silly, if choosing a different platform is (by virtue of Microsoft's 0 > > monopoly in that area) not really an option. > J > This mentality is the problem.  Of course people can use something else.  N That's the theory. But practice is different. Interoperability is the problem,K on two levels: exchange of data, and exchange of people. Both argue for the J installed base - in fact, being the market leader as such increases market fitness in such cases.   	Jan   ------------------------------  + Date: Fri, 03 May 2002 15:48:55 +0100 (MET)g9 From: Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>uQ Subject: Re: Microsoft (was: RE: Capellas: Linux, Windows Will 'Eviscerate' Unix) ; Message-ID: <01KHAOJJK3JC8Y8ZDE@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>g  L > > This mentality is the problem.  Of course people can use something else. > P > That's the theory. But practice is different. Interoperability is the problem,# > on two levels: exchange of data, a   Just say "no"!  :-)i  , > and exchange of people. Both argue for theL > installed base - in fact, being the market leader as such increases market > fitness in such cases.  G I highly recommend Cliff Stoll's HIGH-TECH HERETIC.  The same arguments8D he uses to destroy the claim that "children should learn WORD etc inF school since they'll need it later" can be used to show that the claimF that moving from Microsoft to something else is difficult just because' people are used to it is just as bogus.)   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 03 May 2002 14:47:40 GMT6* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>Q Subject: Re: Microsoft (was: RE: Capellas: Linux, Windows Will 'Eviscerate' Unix)C@ Message-ID: <gqxA8.44033$N8.3348710@bin5.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>  F "Phillip Helbig" <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> wrote in message5 news:01KHAOJJK3JC8Y8ZDE@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com...nH > > > This mentality is the problem.  Of course people can use something else.l > > I > > That's the theory. But practice is different. Interoperability is ther problem,$ > > on two levels: exchange of data, >h > Just say "no"!  :-)i >e. > > and exchange of people. Both argue for theG > > installed base - in fact, being the market leader as such increasesw market > > fitness in such cases. >t5 > I highly recommend Cliff Stoll's HIGH-TECH HERETIC.-  G Cliff is amusing and occasionally insightful but nonetheless a bit of ac
 light-weight.      The same argumentsF > he uses to destroy the claim that "children should learn WORD etc inH > school since they'll need it later" can be used to show that the claimH > that moving from Microsoft to something else is difficult just because) > people are used to it is just as bogus.t  K Wrong.  *If* enough people did as you suggest *then* it would be bogus.  InuI reality, however, the first ones to do so *would* suffer, even though the L world might be better off as a result.  And since capitalism usually rewardsH performance rather than idealism, and our legal system is set up to dealK mostly with the former, the curbs on leveraging monopolies are appropriate.r   - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 03 May 2002 17:08:24 +0200 - From: Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@Free.fr>s8 Subject: MOZ T1: Could not initialize security component' Message-ID: <3CD2A7E8.B4821AB9@Free.fr>h  L I just installed CSWB (aka Mozilla by COMPAQ) on my Alpha PWS 600au HoPenVMSP 7.3, I set the appropriate parameters to the user account then, when I start it, I get:  M "could not initialize the browser's security component. the most likely causerO ... bla bla bla ... read/write restrictions (I have none) and hard disk full orl nearly" (2Go available)a   Any hint please? Thanks,h   D. y -- lH   ----------------------------------------------------------------------H MORANDI Consultants  -  WEB: http://Didier.Morandi.Free.fr/index_us.htmlH 19, chemin de la Butte, 31400 Toulouse, France.  GSM: +33 (0)6 7983 6418H Disaster Recovery Plans, Computer Security Audits, DEC OpenVMS Expertise   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 03 May 2002 16:56:51 GMTi' From: Colin Blake <colin@theblakes.com>p< Subject: Re: MOZ T1: Could not initialize security component- Message-ID: <3CD2C152.77A6DA7B@theblakes.com>m  O For some reason it can't write to the _MOZILLA sub-directory in your SYS$LOGIN.a   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 03 May 2002 17:01:30 GMTr' From: Colin Blake <colin@theblakes.com>m< Subject: Re: MOZ T1: Could not initialize security component- Message-ID: <3CD2C26A.68B389AE@theblakes.com>,   See also bug 105036o2 http://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=105036   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 03 May 2002 09:23:25 +0100e( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1>' Subject: Re: MTI Stingray Documentation ) Message-ID: <3CD248FD.81614299@127.0.0.1>r   "John N." wrote: > J > I would suggest a hammer, or some other industrial crusher.  We wound upL > paying to have about 300 SWare disks, controllers and cabinets hauled off. > Nobody want the d**n things.  F Oh, I dunno. If you prise open the case, you get a (usually) perfectlyG respectable Seagate drive that's quite happy on most later VMS systems. D I'd assume similar would allow you to use the firmware features thatG Hoff has mentioned in a previous similar thread recently to perform thes- erasure and make your local hobbyists smile. c  E I'll decline from saying anything about being stung by a stingray cosr it's personal. -- o( Regards, Nic Clews CSC Computer Sciences nclews at csc dot come   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 03 May 2002 08:50:01 -0400a% From: Jim Agnew <agnew@mail2.vcu.edu>  Subject: Re: New to VAXt- Message-ID: <3CD28779.C669C66A@mail2.vcu.edu>h   David Froble wrote:  >  > Steve wrote:  ? > VT52 - A rather large box introduced in the mid to late 1970sa  1 there was a VT55, a graphics version of the vt52.l  A 	It had a lovely buzzer instead of a beep that I could hear emailm come....G 	The vertical sweep finally died.  I remember warming up my food on theh heatsink 	on the back.. ;-D   jimn   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 03 May 2002 08:53:21 -0400m% From: Jim Agnew <agnew@mail2.vcu.edu>' Subject: Re: New to VAX - Message-ID: <3CD28841.596A5D28@mail2.vcu.edu>s   Look up Shuford's website...  ( http://www.cs.utk.edu/~shuford/terminal/   Steve wrote: >  > Hi there,  > I > I'm very new to Vax systems and I was questionning about terminals. Canr@ > anyone explain me what's the differences between VT100, VT340,1 > VT420...etc..etc... what makes them different ?- > = > I can't find any "clear" document on the net about that ...s >  > Thanks a lot!u >  > Steve    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 03 May 2002 10:56:37 -0600n( From: emanuel stiebler <emu@ecubics.com> Subject: Re: New to VAX + Message-ID: <3CD2C145.5E5D8F2C@ecubics.com>s   Jim Agnew wrote: >  > David Froble wrote:i > >E > > Steve wrote: > A > > VT52 - A rather large box introduced in the mid to late 1970sh > 3 > there was a VT55, a graphics version of the vt52.  > J >         It had a lovely buzzer instead of a beep that I could hear email	 > come...aP >         The vertical sweep finally died.  I remember warming up my food on the
 > heatsink >         on the back.. ;-Dt  H There is another thing to mention about the vt52/55. They were the last " "stackable" terminals DEC made ;-)   ------------------------------   Date: 3 May 2002 02:01:31 -0700r% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>i$ Subject: Re: Off Topic - Humo(u)r...) Message-ID: <aatjlb01nqf@drn.newsguy.com>a  : In article <OF6E3A24BC.E80F216E-ON00256BAD.0059111C@btyp>," Steve.Spires@yellgroup.com says... >w >aE >When Mark Shuttleworth (very rich space tourist) returns from space, - >everybody dress up in Ape Suits. Pass it on.    What and end up in politics!  G http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/uk_politics/newsid_1965000/1965569.stmi  )  Friday, 3 May, 2002, 06:49 GMT 07:49 UK w Monkey mascot elected mayoru  ,  The monkey won on a "free bananas" platform  L H'Angus the Monkey has been elected mayor of Hartlepool in a victory for the# mascot of the town's football team.mL Stuart Drummond, alias H'Angus the Monkey, beat off opposition from the mainC political parties to land the 53,000-a-year job as local talisman.   J The mascot's vote-winning slogan was "free bananas for schoolchildren" andL Labour ministers say the result may mean a rethink about the mayoral system.  L The win comes in the town whose residents are famously said to have hanged aK monkey during the Napoleonic wars because they thought it was a French spy.d   Sex simulation f  N Mr Drummond is well-known in the town for his frolics as mascot for HartlepoolC United Football Club, nicknamed by their rivals the Monkey Hangers.a  K He has been thrown out of two away games, once when he simulated sex with a-I woman steward in Scunthorpe in 2000 and a year ago for his antics with ana inflatable doll at Blackpool.r   M How the 28-year-old will handle his new responsibilities in running the localc council has yet to be seen.   M After the victory, he stressed other education policies would take precedence) over the "free bananas" pledge.   K The town's MP, former Labour cabinet minister Peter Mandelson was among ther@ crowd left watching as euphoria reigned among monkey supporters.   "superficial"   O Liberal Democrat home affairs spokesman Simon Hughes said Mr Drummond's victorytL in Hartlepool highlighted the shortcomings in the system of directly-elected mayors.s  L "We were against the idea of directly-elected mayors because we thought theyN allowed for gimmicks and superficial characters to succeed and we were clearly7 proved right," he told the BBC Radio 4 Today programme.n  O "Populist politics allow for populist solutions and the mayoral idea allows fory that above all."   Mayor rejected e  N Labour Party Chairman Charles Clarke said the Hartlepool result was a "serious issue".t  D He said the government might have to think again about the system of directly-elected mayors.  F But three more areas - Mansfield in Nottinghamshire, Stoke-on-Trent inM Staffordshire and Hackney in east London - voted in referendums to have their  own elected mayors.   + The idea was rejected, however, in Oxford. .  C Voters in six other areas were voting fot directly elected mayors. a  N The Lib Dems notched up the mayoral victory in Watford, while Labour had their8 candidates elected in Newham and Doncaster and Lewisham.  P Middlesbrough's result - keenly watched because of the presence of Ray "Robocop"( Mallon - is due at about noon on Friday.      ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 03 May 2002 19:36:57 +0010r% From: paddy.o'brien@zzz.tg.nsw.gov.au > Subject: Ot: Smells was (RE: UK folks this might interest you)5 Message-ID: <01KHAWKV7AAA000ACH@tgmail.tg.nsw.gov.au>-   Nic Clews wrote:   >"antonio.carlini" wrote:1 >> 3 >> Elliott Roper wrote:g >> yG >> > I've not noticed a brewery when visiting that very famous address.t >> t5 >> Then you drove in with your eyes and nose shut :-)  >F? >Oh, there's nothing like the smell of a brewery. Mmmmmmmmmmmm.r >a< >I used to work in a bakery, and that wasn't too bad either. >0I >On Orkney recently I visited the Highland Park distillery, another nasalM	 >delight.u  J I could imagine a bakery and in my youth used to love the smell of coffee M being ground.  But a brewery or distillery ... ??  I enjoy the products, but  L neither are very aromatic.  My experience of a distillery was the Bundaberg M rum distillery in Queensland .au.  An experience, but not a pleasant smell.  o. Similar to breweries I have been around in UK.   Regards, Paddy   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 03 May 2002 19:14:42 +0010 % From: paddy.o'brien@zzz.tg.nsw.gov.au.W Subject: Re: OT:Sex/births was (DECUS/EncompassUS Survey -- no longer assuming Windows) 5 Message-ID: <01KHAVSB4IO2000ABV@tgmail.tg.nsw.gov.au>e   Paul Repacholi wrote:e  B >1st of March has the highest number of legal births by a largeish >margin.  L Why? Do people only have intercourse on 1-jun (I must have bad habits)? And  what is an illegal birth???   M My dear little 80+ year old mother was born on 25-sep.  She always maintains .O she knows what her parents were up to the previous Christmas day.  Her nearest l comment to "crudity".    Regards, Paddy   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 03 May 2002 05:50:28 -0700t% From: Dean Woodward <deanw@rdrop.com>. Subject: Positive news...m) Message-ID: <3CD28794.DA405351@rdrop.com>e  " Well, OK, positive rumors, anyway:    Capellas Clock stops ticking...:' http://www.theinquirer.net/03050211.htms  9 > We understand from moles that from day one new roadmaps*7 > will come churning out of the Powerpointless factory,r9 > and while Marvel and OpenVMS seem to be safe in Carly's ; > fair hands, Avalanche, a humungous switched fabric serveru > due in 2005 is history.m  G Sorry, BobC, no word on EV-8 showing up in _any_ version of IA-64.  Oh,t4 this just in- Purveyor is still a dead product, too.   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 03 May 2002 13:07:45 GMT * From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> Subject: Re: Positive news... @ Message-ID: <BYvA8.19332$c7.2112875@bin7.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>  2 "Dean Woodward" <deanw@rdrop.com> wrote in message# news:3CD28794.DA405351@rdrop.com...l$ > Well, OK, positive rumors, anyway: >n" > Capellas Clock stops ticking...:) > http://www.theinquirer.net/03050211.htm  >y; > > We understand from moles that from day one new roadmapsn9 > > will come churning out of the Powerpointless factory, ; > > and while Marvel and OpenVMS seem to be safe in Carly'se= > > fair hands, Avalanche, a humungous switched fabric server  > > due in 2005 is history.C  E Oh, dear:  this wouldn't be part of the 'Fire, Ice, ...' blade-server*K master-plan that Terry keeps referring to so obliquely, would it?  From theeK server group that didn't think Alpha was worth keeping?  Guess it turns outvI that they may not be worth keeping either - which would be poetic justicew indeed.v   - bill   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 03 May 2002 13:25:54 GMT 1 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com>w Subject: Re: Positive news... ; Message-ID: <CdwA8.65678$%s3.25415042@typhoon.ne.ipsvc.net>x  2 "Dean Woodward" <deanw@rdrop.com> wrote in message# news:3CD28794.DA405351@rdrop.com...h$ > Well, OK, positive rumors, anyway: > " > Capellas Clock stops ticking...:) > http://www.theinquirer.net/03050211.htms >p; > > We understand from moles that from day one new roadmapsd9 > > will come churning out of the Powerpointless factory,n; > > and while Marvel and OpenVMS seem to be safe in Carly'sy= > > fair hands, Avalanche, a humungous switched fabric serverr > > due in 2005 is history.c > I > Sorry, BobC, no word on EV-8 showing up in _any_ version of IA-64.  Oh, 6 > this just in- Purveyor is still a dead product, too.  L Avalance, IIRC, was to have been Mister Fenwick's Third Opus (TurboLaser andI WildFire being numbers One and Two respectively). Apparently the need foreL such a beast declined as the ISSG started putting its plans together for theI Fire/Wind/Ice ultradense blade server family (progeny of QuickBlade). Thea4 June 25 decision pretty much finished off Avalanche.  L What happens to Fire/Wind/Ice is best known to the merger mavens in the ConeL of Silence. Seems to me that HP's Superdome and blade-server folks will have some input to the decision.e   ------------------------------   Date: 3 May 2002 07:35:44 -0500nB From: clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP (Simon Clubley)F Subject: Predictions, was: Re: Some more words of wisdom from Capellas3 Message-ID: <nnSmMGtHMKgW@eisner.encompasserve.org>e  Q In article <aato9701u3q@drn.newsguy.com>, Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net> writes:e > L > "We're driving the move to standards-based computing across the board," he
 > replied. >   J "across the board" ? In my book, that means low end to high end (including the VMS market).  N > In response to a question "What does Compaq stand for?", Capellas answered:  > O > "We've got to be the first go-to-market partner Intel, the first go-to-marketoP > partner for Oracle and the first go-to-market partner for Microsoft," he said. > R > "We've got to do this. We can't do microprocessor better than Intel," he added.  >   K People other than myself are much more qualified to talk about Alpha versus G IA64, but if Alpha was so bad, then why is the d*mn thing still settingc	 records ?e  P > Windows and Linux would " absolutely eviscerate midrange Unix", he predicted.  >   F This one is worrying. While I agree with the viewpoint that Linux willI continue to eat into the Solaris market share, especially at the low end,-F I think that (in light of his standards-based computing quote) it also> means that Capellas believes that the same will happen to VMS.  3 My predictions (and I really hope that I am wrong):'> 	Next week, when the plans are disclosed to the general media,> 	(as opposed to the VMS media) VMS will not be a major part of= 	the public discussion; if discussed at all it will be in thep> 	context of legacy customers; and any committment letters will< 	only be promoted within the installed base and not promoted 	outside of it.e  A 	VMS will never be marketed outside of the installed base; peoplea$ 	will have to explicitly ask for it.  A 	The port to IA64 will continue, but it's purpose will be to keepC@ 	the installed base happy and not to generate conversions to VMS) 	from customers who don't already use it.e  @ 	Small VMS customers have no future in the HPQ scheme of things.? 	If they want it because they have grown up with it then great,e? 	but I think that the HPQ view of the VMS future is towards the-> 	very large installations. Such an approach may appear to workE 	in the short term, but won't (IMHO) give a long time future for VMS.x  = 	[Note that I work for a small employer, so I see the ways in3= 	which Windows/Unix systems can be made to provide a complete@) 	solution for these sized organisations.]e   Simon.   -- JB Simon Clubley, clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP       + Microsoft: The Lada of the computing world.    ------------------------------  + Date: Fri, 03 May 2002 15:11:17 +0100 (MET)i9 From: Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> J Subject: Re: Predictions, was: Re: Some more words of wisdom from Capellas; Message-ID: <01KHAN0BF3WS8Y8ZDE@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>   A > "across the board" ? In my book, that means low end to high ende > (including the VMS market).   9 I don't think Capellas would even IMPLICITLY mention VMS.t  I Come on, folks---we can't criticise him for not mentioning VMS when good rI things are mentioned, and at the same time assume he implicitly includes l! it when bad things are mentioned.   F > People other than myself are much more qualified to talk about AlphaH > versus IA64, but if Alpha was so bad, then why is the d*mn thing still > setting records ?   F I am as unqualified as you to say whether it is true, but people more G qualified than I have said that, while good in the past and still good sI now, it would have become too difficult to KEEP Alpha competitive in the dG future.  There is no logical inconsistency here; Alpha can be the best hH design now, but not in the future.  The same was true of the VAX at one  point.  H > This one is worrying. While I agree with the viewpoint that Linux willF > continue to eat into the Solaris market share, especially at the lowH > end, I think that (in light of his standards-based computing quote) itF > also means that Capellas believes that the same will happen to VMS.   I See above.  If Capellas doesn't mention VMS when he should, we shouldn't :3 assume that he means it when he doesn't mention it.o  @ > 	Next week, when the plans are disclosed to the general media,@ > 	(as opposed to the VMS media) VMS will not be a major part of? > 	the public discussion; if discussed at all it will be in the-@ > 	context of legacy customers; and any committment letters will> > 	only be promoted within the installed base and not promoted > 	outside of it.t  I As long as this makes money for the company, why should they do anything ,
 different?  C > 	VMS will never be marketed outside of the installed base; people & > 	will have to explicitly ask for it.  G If enough people explicitly ask for it, then things will change.  It's iH like the manager of a pop group getting people to ring up record stores A asking for the latest single by the group du jour; demand can be   created.  C > 	The port to IA64 will continue, but it's purpose will be to keep1B > 	the installed base happy and not to generate conversions to VMS+ > 	from customers who don't already use it.   & Again, it depends on perceived demand.  B > 	Small VMS customers have no future in the HPQ scheme of things.A > 	If they want it because they have grown up with it then great,0A > 	but I think that the HPQ view of the VMS future is towards thec@ > 	very large installations. Such an approach may appear to workG > 	in the short term, but won't (IMHO) give a long time future for VMS.   G If you are thinking about buying something from HP, and are interested sG in VMS, say at the outset: "I want to discuss a VMS solution with you;  H if you can't come up with one, forcing me to consider another platform, ! then it won't be an HP platform".i   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 03 May 2002 14:06:15 GMTt1 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com>dJ Subject: Re: Predictions, was: Re: Some more words of wisdom from Capellas; Message-ID: <rPwA8.65688$%s3.25438548@typhoon.ne.ipsvc.net>n  G "Simon Clubley" <clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP> wrote inC5 message news:nnSmMGtHMKgW@eisner.encompasserve.org...-K > In article <aato9701u3q@drn.newsguy.com>, Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>  writes:  > >wK > > "We're driving the move to standards-based computing across the board,"i he > > replied. > >r >eL > "across the board" ? In my book, that means low end to high end (including > the VMS market). >hE > > In response to a question "What does Compaq stand for?", Capellasz	 answered:  > >bD > > "We've got to be the first go-to-market partner Intel, the first go-to-marketL > > partner for Oracle and the first go-to-market partner for Microsoft," he said.- > >-L > > "We've got to do this. We can't do microprocessor better than Intel," he added.   Not any longer. ;-}t > >  >eF > People other than myself are much more qualified to talk about Alpha versusI > IA64, but if Alpha was so bad, then why is the d*mn thing still setting  > records ?y  = Alpha architecture = good. Alpha marketecture = bloody awful.    >oF > > Windows and Linux would " absolutely eviscerate midrange Unix", he
 predicted. > >k >tH > This one is worrying. While I agree with the viewpoint that Linux willK > continue to eat into the Solaris market share, especially at the low end,-H > I think that (in light of his standards-based computing quote) it also@ > means that Capellas believes that the same will happen to VMS.  L Maybe yes, maybe no. Note that CPQ in the past few months has taken penchantK to saying "Windows AND LINUX" in the same breath. Peruse a few recent press9K releases and the last earnings statement for proof. And note the increasing L influence of CTO Shane Robison, who seems to like Linux a lot more than that	 Other OS.h  L Capellas may be of the opinion (and quite rightfully so) that VMS is alreadyK dead meat in the low-end, and increasingly in the midrange marketplace. The ? corpus he envisions eviscerating is quite likely named Solaris.    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 03 May 2002 14:39:34 GMTm* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>J Subject: Re: Predictions, was: Re: Some more words of wisdom from Capellas@ Message-ID: <GixA8.46661$q8.4356034@bin3.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>  F "Phillip Helbig" <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> wrote in message5 news:01KHAN0BF3WS8Y8ZDE@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com... C > > "across the board" ? In my book, that means low end to high endn > > (including the VMS market).i >n; > I don't think Capellas would even IMPLICITLY mention VMS.  >4J > Come on, folks---we can't criticise him for not mentioning VMS when goodJ > things are mentioned, and at the same time assume he implicitly includes# > it when bad things are mentioned.o  L Your conclusion above seems rather naive.  By virtue of never saying much ofF *anything* about VMS, Capellas must be judged on his other actions andH words.  And consistently he has been advocating (and implementing) movesJ toward 'industry-standard' product sets, which is about as far as possibleA from VMS (even Unix is perceived as *some* sort of a 'standard').o  G So when he mentions (or used to mention) good things about Unix and NSKtL without mentioning VMS, he does indeed deserve criticism on that score.  AndH when he talks about 'eviscerating' Unix, it's not at all unreasonable toH believe he has even worse plans for VMS - and while the plans of someoneL willing trash profitable products such as Alpha, Tru64, and (now) HP/UX longK before any viable replacement exists might be taken with a liberal grain ofkH salt because someone that incompetent should quickly be removed from anyJ position of responsibility, in this case no such rational response appearsJ to be in the cards (so while HP may well go down the tubes as a result, it will likely take VMS with it).   >aH > > People other than myself are much more qualified to talk about AlphaJ > > versus IA64, but if Alpha was so bad, then why is the d*mn thing still > > setting records ?k >aG > I am as unqualified as you to say whether it is true, but people more H > qualified than I have said that, while good in the past and still goodJ > now, it would have become too difficult to KEEP Alpha competitive in the	 > future.d  K And people far more qualified than *they* are have said that this was uttert, bullshit.  I know whom I find more credible.   ...s  A > > Next week, when the plans are disclosed to the general media,aA > > (as opposed to the VMS media) VMS will not be a major part ofr@ > > the public discussion; if discussed at all it will be in theA > > context of legacy customers; and any committment letters willt? > > only be promoted within the installed base and not promotedh > > outside of it. > J > As long as this makes money for the company, why should they do anything > different?  8 Because a different approach would be *more* profitable.   > D > > VMS will never be marketed outside of the installed base; people' > > will have to explicitly ask for it.t > B > If enough people explicitly ask for it, then things will change.  K Define 'enough':  a significant number of people *have* been asking for it,tE *despite* the barricades that have been erected over the past decade.      It'sI > like the manager of a pop group getting people to ring up record stores 3 > asking for the latest single by the group du jour   L And like the record stores trying as hard as they can to divert those people, to other performers:  really, really stupid.   - bill   ------------------------------    Date: 03 May 2002 14:25:03 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>( Subject: Re: Purify or equiv. on OpenVMS- Message-ID: <87sn59wxxc.fsf@prep.synonet.com>n  ? Doc.Cypher <Use-Author-Supplied-Address-Header@[127.1]> writes:w  F > On a related note I've got a couple of people doing a little work onF > an updated version of PGP for VMS. Its based on 2.6.3 and supports a? > number of new algorithms plus key lengths up to 8K bits. Onlyc= > problem is that this has uncovered a problem in it, and thej@ > currently available 2.6.3 version, it doesn't check signaturesF > properly. Its been years since I used the debugger on VMS with C andE > I'm not seeing anything obvious plus the other people working on it C > have no experience of this, if anyone else can spare some time to-* > have a look at it I would appreciate it.  < Does it depend on the format of the file? VAR vs STMLF vs...  5 the CRTL doe all sorts of evil stuff in this area. :(n   --  < Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.r@                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------   Date: 3 May 2002 08:29:20 -0000r= From: Doc.Cypher <Use-Author-Supplied-Address-Header@[127.1]>m( Subject: Re: Purify or equiv. on OpenVMS6 Message-ID: <20020503082920.14687.qmail@gacracker.org>  = On 03 May 2002, Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com> wrote:P@ >Doc.Cypher <Use-Author-Supplied-Address-Header@[127.1]> writes: > G >> On a related note I've got a couple of people doing a little work onwG >> an updated version of PGP for VMS. Its based on 2.6.3 and supports ad@ >> number of new algorithms plus key lengths up to 8K bits. Only> >> problem is that this has uncovered a problem in it, and theA >> currently available 2.6.3 version, it doesn't check signatureseG >> properly. Its been years since I used the debugger on VMS with C and F >> I'm not seeing anything obvious plus the other people working on itI >> have no experience of this, if anyone else can spare some time to have1' >> a look at it I would appreciate it. @ >r= >Does it depend on the format of the file? VAR vs STMLF vs...1 >26 >the CRTL doe all sorts of evil stuff in this area. :(   I honestly don't know.  H I've made it available for download if anyone is interested in trying toC figure this out. It's at http://vmsbox.cjb.net/pgp/pgp263-multi.zipe  : Here's the file attributes, and an example of the error...   $ dir/full pubring.pgp   Directory USER_DISK:[DC]  > PUBRING.PGP;1                 File ID:  (18339,3,0)           1 Size:            2/4          Owner:    [USER,DC]v" Created:    3-MAY-2002 08:26:11.71& Revised:    3-MAY-2002 08:26:11.94 (2) Expires:   <None specified>  Backup:    <No backup recorded>e Effective: <None specified>r Recording: <None specified>q File organization:  Sequential Shelved state:      Online p  Caching attribute:  WritethroughH File attributes:    Allocation: 4, Extend: 0, Global buffer count: 0, No
 version limiteC Record format:      Stream_LF, maximum 0 bytes, longest 32767 bytes 4 Record attributes:  Carriage return carriage control RMS attributes:     None Journaling enabled: None< File protection:    System:RWED, Owner:RWED, Group:E, World: Access Cntrl List:  None Client attributes:  None   Total of 1 file, 2/4 blocksm    	 $ pgp -kcK No configuration file found.G Pretty Good Privacy(tm) 2.6.3ia-multi06 - Public-key encryption for the1 massesF (c) 1990-96 Philip Zimmermann, Phil's Pretty Good Software. 2002-04-22; International version - for use everywhere (including USA). " Current time: 2002/05/03 08:27 GMT   PGP is now using IDEA with MD5.v    ! Key ring: 'SYS$LOGIN:pubring.pgp'r% Type Bits/KeyID    Date       User ID K pub  2048/51BDBAC9 2002/05/03 Doc.Cypher <doc_cypher@redneck.gacracker.org> C sig?      51BDBAC9 2002/05/03  (Unknown signator, can't be checked)C  &   KeyID    Trust     Validity  User ID) * 51BDBAC9 ultimate  complete  Doc.Cyphers" <doc_cypher@redneck.gacracker.org>* c          ultimate             Doc.Cypher" <doc_cypher@redneck.gacracker.org>   1 "trust parameter" changed.6 Update public keyring 'SYS$LOGIN:pubring.pgp' (Y/n)? n    K It's the "sig?" line that it seems to be going wrong on. It should discoverWG that this is a signature with my private key. FWIW, all other functions C work correctly and if people can live with this bug it can be used.t     Doc. -- n6 The bigger the humbug, the better people will like it.K ~ Phineas Taylor Barnum.                             https://vmsbox.cjb.netl   ------------------------------    Date: 03 May 2002 11:44:02 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>Y Subject: Re: put up or shut up (was: RE: AMD To Announce Microsoft Support For New Chip Ft- Message-ID: <87it65yjy5.fsf@prep.synonet.com>a  ( Greg Cagle <gregc@gregcagle.com> writes:  - > And HP's compiler guys are working on them.o  F Many have been working on them for 20 years, and they *STILL* need theC 'fundemental breakthrough' to solve the problem they have built for = them selves. And if they DO make the jump, then all the othertE compilers can use it as well so there will be no change in _relative_ 9 performance, everyone will jump by about the same amount.i  D HP though the compiler problem was more likely to be solved than the) OoO CPU problem. They missed their pick. d   -- k< Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda. @                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------   Date: 3 May 2002 07:06:33 -0700 ( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)Y Subject: Re: put up or shut up (was: RE: AMD To Announce Microsoft Support For New Chip Fl= Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0205030606.285ebc3b@posting.google.com>l  | Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> wrote in message news:<01KGZKRZZ3DI8Y7GCV@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>...M > > > >you just gave the evidence ... if EV8 can compete or beat hammer, theneN > > > >Intel will have to use EV8 or go out of business ... if Itanic tanks as> > > > >you are suggesting above, then there is no alternative! > > > K > > > You miss the obvious. Intel could use EV8 technology and engineers toiI > > > make their own "Hammer" compatible chip and not use them to improveo > > > the IA64.i > > K > > why do that when they already have the Alpha engineers in tact, the EV8 K > > blueprints in hand ... that is a waste of more time and money!  And didoH > > anyone ever wonder why there is a beta 3 release of windows 2000 for > > Alpha?   > K > Even though it has been stated many times by many people who should know rH > that ALPHA will not live on in Itanium in any meaningful sense of the K > word, neither according to current plans nor to any yet-to-be-made plans mF > (i.e. such plans will not be made), you still continue to post such : > fantasies.  why not put your money where your mouth is?  > D > For example, why not publicly state that if VMS systems running onH > Itanium do not have "ALPHA inside" in any meaningful sense of the termI > by, say, 2010, you will buy me such a system of my choice at that time. H > And if one of my current ALPHA images runs on a VMS system running on H > Itanium without binary translation, then I will buy you the system of  > your choice? > I > For anyone from outside the group following this thread, your comments  3 > make it seem like this group is totally clueless.S  D totally clueless hugh?  well eat your words, this is latest McKinley update from Bill Todd ...n  
 Reason #4:  E Bob Ceculski was right after all:  Intel is frantically scrambling tonB release Alpha in McKinley clothing, and is really, really close toH accomplishing this truly unbelievable feat.  Unfortunately, while it hasI already succeeded in getting the processor to process instructions out ofeH order, it has yet to figure out how to make any sense out of the result,J which currently more resembles a grab-bag than anything that could executeL an algorithm.  The existing EPIC and new Alpha teams are assiduously workingK on a meeting of the minds that could solve this problem, and reportedly aretH *very* close to creating a common language in which they can communicate8 with each other (an important milestone by any measure).   - bill   ------------------------------   Date: 3 May 2002 14:36:12 -0000f= From: Doc.Cypher <Use-Author-Supplied-Address-Header@[127.1]>eY Subject: Re: put up or shut up (was: RE: AMD To Announce Microsoft Support For New Chip F 6 Message-ID: <20020503143612.23444.qmail@gacracker.org>  8 On 3 May 2002, bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski) wrote:E >Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> wrote in messagei8 >news:<01KGZKRZZ3DI8Y7GCV@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>...N >> > > >you just gave the evidence ... if EV8 can compete or beat hammer, thenO >> > > >Intel will have to use EV8 or go out of business ... if Itanic tanks aso@ >> > > >you are suggesting above, then there is no alternative!  >> > > nL >> > > You miss the obvious. Intel could use EV8 technology and engineers toN >> > > make their own "Hammer" compatible chip and not use them to improve the
 >> > > IA64. p >> > iL >> > why do that when they already have the Alpha engineers in tact, the EV8L >> > blueprints in hand ... that is a waste of more time and money!  And didI >> > anyone ever wonder why there is a beta 3 release of windows 2000 forc >> > Alpha?  >> uL >> Even though it has been stated many times by many people who should know I >> that ALPHA will not live on in Itanium in any meaningful sense of the eL >> word, neither according to current plans nor to any yet-to-be-made plans G >> (i.e. such plans will not be made), you still continue to post such h; >> fantasies.  why not put your money where your mouth is? e >> oE >> For example, why not publicly state that if VMS systems running on I >> Itanium do not have "ALPHA inside" in any meaningful sense of the termSJ >> by, say, 2010, you will buy me such a system of my choice at that time.I >> And if one of my current ALPHA images runs on a VMS system running on  I >> Itanium without binary translation, then I will buy you the system of   >> your choice?a >> pO >> For anyone from outside the group following this thread, your comments  makeM0 >> it seem like this group is totally clueless.  >dE >totally clueless hugh?  well eat your words, this is latest McKinleye >update from Bill Todd ...  G Sheesh! It's bad enough that my ISP's news service is spitting out someeJ posts a couple of times, you have to quote the same thing at us again, and; again, and *again*! It's sarcastic, or can't you tell that?>     Doc. -- .6 The bigger the humbug, the better people will like it.K ~ Phineas Taylor Barnum.                             https://vmsbox.cjb.net    ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 3 May 2002 12:03:59 -0400( From: "Mike Foley" <mike-spam@yelof.com>Y Subject: Re: put up or shut up (was: RE: AMD To Announce Microsoft Support For New Chip F'/ Message-ID: <ud5d7lh31m84e8@corp.supernews.com>,  5 "Bob Ceculski" <bob@instantwhip.com> wrote in messagefF > totally clueless hugh?  well eat your words, this is latest McKinley > update from Bill Todd ...c >r > Reason #4: >aG > Bob Ceculski was right after all:  Intel is frantically scrambling toa    D     Take another drink of the KoolAid Bob.. I think it's starting toE     kick in. You're obviously delusional. It won't be long before thedB     rocketship from Pluto comes to pick you up and take you to the     planet of eternal EV8's.     mike   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 03 May 2002 16:54:12 +0100iU From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <andrew_nospam.harrison_remove_this@sun#.com>eY Subject: Re: put up or shut up (was: RE: AMD To Announce Microsoft Support For New Chip Fd0 Message-ID: <aaubr4$kea$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>  8 Don't be too cruel to him he might stop posting as it is he brightens up a rainy day.  . Now where was my Darwin award nomination form.  ? But seriously if you want to give people like me the ammunition = to claim that OpenVMS advocates are out of touch wierdos thene< this is the kind of posting style that should be encouraged.   Regardso Andrew Harrison    Doc.Cypher wrote:s  : > On 3 May 2002, bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski) wrote: > F >>Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> wrote in message9 >>news:<01KGZKRZZ3DI8Y7GCV@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>...n >>L >>>>>>you just gave the evidence ... if EV8 can compete or beat hammer, thenM >>>>>>Intel will have to use EV8 or go out of business ... if Itanic tanks asa> >>>>>>you are suggesting above, then there is no alternative!  >>>>>>J >>>>>You miss the obvious. Intel could use EV8 technology and engineers toL >>>>>make their own "Hammer" compatible chip and not use them to improve the >>>>>IA64. . >>>>> K >>>>why do that when they already have the Alpha engineers in tact, the EV8iK >>>>blueprints in hand ... that is a waste of more time and money!  And didiH >>>>anyone ever wonder why there is a beta 3 release of windows 2000 for >>>>Alpha? d >>>>L >>>Even though it has been stated many times by many people who should know I >>>that ALPHA will not live on in Itanium in any meaningful sense of the  L >>>word, neither according to current plans nor to any yet-to-be-made plans G >>>(i.e. such plans will not be made), you still continue to post such t; >>>fantasies.  why not put your money where your mouth is? u >>>tE >>>For example, why not publicly state that if VMS systems running onaI >>>Itanium do not have "ALPHA inside" in any meaningful sense of the term)J >>>by, say, 2010, you will buy me such a system of my choice at that time.I >>>And if one of my current ALPHA images runs on a VMS system running on ,I >>>Itanium without binary translation, then I will buy you the system of   >>>your choice?n >>>sO >>>For anyone from outside the group following this thread, your comments  makeo0 >>>it seem like this group is totally clueless.  >>> F >>totally clueless hugh?  well eat your words, this is latest McKinley >>update from Bill Todd ...o >> > I > Sheesh! It's bad enough that my ISP's news service is spitting out sometL > posts a couple of times, you have to quote the same thing at us again, and= > again, and *again*! It's sarcastic, or can't you tell that?  >  >  > Doc. >    ------------------------------   Date: 3 May 2002 17:17:18 GMTi1 From: bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Y Subject: Re: put up or shut up (was: RE: AMD To Announce Microsoft Support For New Chip FI+ Message-ID: <aaugmu$7lo$1@info.cs.uofs.edu>t  = In article <d7791aa1.0205030606.285ebc3b@posting.google.com>, +  bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski) writes:f |> Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> wrote in message news:<01KGZKRZZ3DI8Y7GCV@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>...tP |> > > > >you just gave the evidence ... if EV8 can compete or beat hammer, thenQ |> > > > >Intel will have to use EV8 or go out of business ... if Itanic tanks aseA |> > > > >you are suggesting above, then there is no alternative!y	 |> > > > tN |> > > > You miss the obvious. Intel could use EV8 technology and engineers toL |> > > > make their own "Hammer" compatible chip and not use them to improve |> > > > the IA64. |> > > fN |> > > why do that when they already have the Alpha engineers in tact, the EV8N |> > > blueprints in hand ... that is a waste of more time and money!  And didK |> > > anyone ever wonder why there is a beta 3 release of windows 2000 fort |> > > Alpha?  |> > eN |> > Even though it has been stated many times by many people who should know K |> > that ALPHA will not live on in Itanium in any meaningful sense of the  N |> > word, neither according to current plans nor to any yet-to-be-made plans I |> > (i.e. such plans will not be made), you still continue to post such r= |> > fantasies.  why not put your money where your mouth is? p |> > rG |> > For example, why not publicly state that if VMS systems running on K |> > Itanium do not have "ALPHA inside" in any meaningful sense of the term>L |> > by, say, 2010, you will buy me such a system of my choice at that time.K |> > And if one of my current ALPHA images runs on a VMS system running on sK |> > Itanium without binary translation, then I will buy you the system of   |> > your choice?n |> >  L |> > For anyone from outside the group following this thread, your comments 6 |> > make it seem like this group is totally clueless. |> cG |> totally clueless hugh?  well eat your words, this is latest McKinley  |> update from Bill Todd ... |> y
 |> Reason #4:s |> eH |> Bob Ceculski was right after all:  Intel is frantically scrambling toE |> release Alpha in McKinley clothing, and is really, really close toaK |> accomplishing this truly unbelievable feat.  Unfortunately, while it has.L |> already succeeded in getting the processor to process instructions out ofK |> order, it has yet to figure out how to make any sense out of the result, M |> which currently more resembles a grab-bag than anything that could execute O |> an algorithm.  The existing EPIC and new Alpha teams are assiduously working N |> on a meeting of the minds that could solve this problem, and reportedly areK |> *very* close to creating a common language in which they can communicatea; |> with each other (an important milestone by any measure).S |> e	 |> - bille   Bob,G   Is English your primary language??  Have you ever watched Letterman??2  2 I'm assuming the answer to both questions is "No".   bill   -- pJ Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------   Date: 3 May 2002 12:26:03 GMTy1 From: bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)n% Subject: Re: Read it and weep Andrew!6, Message-ID: <aatvkr$2v37$2@info.cs.uofs.edu>  = In article <d7791aa1.0205021503.4ea47df8@posting.google.com>,n+  bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski) writes:h |>( |> AlphaServer ES45 Sets Another Record   E What's the point??  It's dead.  Afterall, I wrote another applicationiF for my PDP-11 last night, but I don't think I'll make a press release.   |> vE |>                that established the AlphaServer ES45 server as the 3 |> price-performance leader among all UNIX servers.e |> d  6 There's that "U" word again.  Howcum not VMS??     :-)   bill   -- tJ Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   2   ------------------------------   Date: 3 May 2002 08:21:20 -0500 - From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen):% Subject: Re: Read it and weep Andrew!c3 Message-ID: <1HKMaJWi1W0r@eisner.encompasserve.org>n  ` In article <aatvkr$2v37$2@info.cs.uofs.edu>, bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes:? > In article <d7791aa1.0205021503.4ea47df8@posting.google.com>,l- >  bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski) writes:d > |>* > |> AlphaServer ES45 Sets Another Record  > G > What's the point??  It's dead.  Afterall, I wrote another applicationbH > for my PDP-11 last night, but I don't think I'll make a press release. >  > |> ,G > |>                that established the AlphaServer ES45 server as theo5 > |> price-performance leader among all UNIX servers.a > |> l > 8 > There's that "U" word again.  Howcum not VMS??     :-)  @ I am convinced it is also the price-performance leader among all VMS servers.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 03 May 2002 15:32:21 +0100SU From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <andrew_nospam.harrison_remove_this@sun#.com>i% Subject: Re: Read it and weep Andrew!/0 Message-ID: <aau71l$j32$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   Why would I weep.<  ? Oracle Applications is a benchmark that measures the throughput(? of a system not the per CPU performance. The fact that the ES45d> produces a better per CPU performance than any other server is= wonderfull news but like most other wonderfull news from youroA favourite manufacturer its a made up measure that has no meaning.   ' Remember the best 2 CPU NT server perf.p  C It also confirms my point about the ES45 being the only competitiveg@ box Compaq produce so its hardly grounds for celebration why not% rub a bit more salt in Kerrys wounds.   ? Finally you seem to have missdirected your posting which shouldtC not have gone to comp.os.vms because as you will note the benchmarkiA was run on Tru64 probably because the application stack used wills not run on OpenVMS.-  
 More salt.   Regards  Andrew Harrison0   Bob Ceculski wrote:   ' > AlphaServer ES45 Sets Another Record j > G > Yet another reason why the AlphaServer ES45 is the most popular AlphawE > system Compaq has ever produced. Compaq on May 2 announced that its<H > AlphaServer ES45 system has established a new record for the number ofC > users per processor in the Oracle Applications Standard Benchmark F > version 11i. An AlphaServer ES45 equipped with four 1GHz Alpha CPUs,D > Tru64 UNIX and Oracle9i Database Enterprise Edition for Tru64 UnixH > supported a total of 3,304 users with an average response time of 1.66D > seconds in the Oracle Applications Standard Benchmark test, for an% > average of 826 users per processor.t > H > In establishing the new standard, the AlphaServer ES45 system achievedF > nearly twice the users per CPU performance of an eight-processor SunD > Microsystems Sun Fire V880 server. The Compaq server also posted a+ > faster response time than the Sun system.C > C > The record-setting Oracle Applications benchmark result follows auD > similar record-breaking performance in the industry-standard TPC-CH > database benchmark that established the AlphaServer ES45 server as the2 > price-performance leader among all UNIX servers. > A > Compaq has also demonstrated its ability to combine AlphaServer2F > systems in Oracle9i Real Application Clusters to deliver outstandingE > "out-of-the-box" performance, scalability and fault tolerance. LastdG > December, Compaq and Oracle announced that four clustered AlphaServercC > ES45 quadprocessor systems running Tru64 UNIX and Oracle database D > software produced near linear scaling (1.8), a key measurement forF > on-demand capacity planning and flexibility in deployment, in an SAP
 > R3 test. > . > (c) 2002 by Terry Shannon, Shannon Knows HPC >    ------------------------------   Date: 3 May 2002 01:44 CDT' From: carl@gerg.tamu.edu (Carl Perkins) B Subject: Re: Reducing size of incremental backup - will this work?, Message-ID: <3MAY200201441370@gerg.tamu.edu>  1 Roy Omond <Roy.Omond@BlueBubble.UK.Com> writes...  }Phillip Helbig wrote: } C }> > I hereby nominate /NOINCREMENTAL for the most poorly named VMS  }> > qualifier ever. }>J }> Especially since, in contrast to everything else in VMS, /NOINCREMENTAL' }> is not the negation of /INCREMENTAL.t }  }Sorry, couldn't resist ...p } - }just like /NOTIFY is the negation of /TIFY ?t  ! And /NODE is the negation of /DE?e! And /NOTE is the negation of /TE?uO And /NO_SHARE is the negation of /_SHARE? (There is a /NONO_SHARE for LICENSE.)nL And /NO_INITIAL_FF is the negation of /_INITIAL_FF? (SET QUEUE, START/QUEUE)   I'm sure there are more.  E Really, only the last two are at all comparable to the /NOINCREMENTALeF case - the others are just words that happen to start with the lettersE NO, but /NOINCREMENTAL, and the last two of mine, are the actual word  NO follwed by more words.   D The /NOINCREMENTAL case is particularly bad because there is alreadyB an /INCREMENTAL qualifier and the two don't really have much to doE with each other. I can't think of anyother case like that where there#A is a qualifier and another unrelated qualifier that is build withb! the same term prefixed with a NO.   M It would probably have been better to call it /NO_DIRECTORY_RENAME_PROTECTIONe@ or something along those lines, only shorter, since that is moreE descriptive of what it is. That would also match my last two examples F above in form, and could even have a /NONO_DIRECTORY_RENAME_PROTECTION! negated form that is the default.c   --- Carl   ------------------------------   Date: 3 May 2002 08:02:33 -0500y- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)sB Subject: Re: Reducing size of incremental backup - will this work?3 Message-ID: <X3YNmjipCGpq@eisner.encompasserve.org>c  Z In article <3CD21CCA.5040306@qsl.network>, "John E. Malmberg" <wb8tyw@qsl.network> writes: > K > And no, I will not go into details of how to write lock the NLA0: device.- >   D    There are a variety of things you can make the NLA0: device do ifB    you are willing to poke kernel data structures or code, but its@    ususally a good idea to pull out the device driver manual andA    write your own simple driver so the rest of the system doesn't>    go bonkers.  D    A very good learning experience for someone who wants to know the    VMS I/O system.   ------------------------------    Date: 03 May 2002 15:17:18 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>5 Subject: Re: removing extra carriage return/line feedt- Message-ID: <873cx9wvi9.fsf@prep.synonet.com>m  . hughest@esm-semi.co.uk (Tracey Hughes) writes:  : > Thanks for the replies so far. To answer your questions:   ...t  D > I have to send this file via email to uploaded into another systemD > and currently use Wordpad to remove this line. Once I have deletedB > back to the end of the last line and resaved the file it uploadsE > fine but I would obviously like to automate this procedure from the  > Alpha.  E Do you meant there are some 'empty' lines at the end that are causing 	 problems?    -- a< Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.o@                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 03 May 2002 05:48:01 GMT * From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> Subject: Revisionist history@ Message-ID: <lwpA8.41258$q8.4073893@bin3.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>  J As Terry saw fit to pass on the Compaq party line that EV8 really did haveJ problems, it seems once again time to cut through the crap that Compaq andC its minions have been spreading liberally for close to a year now -hK especially since there are precious few Alpha chip team members left in HPS : to counter the revisionist FUD from the server contingent.  H The facts are simple:  EV8 was doing well, right up until it got canned.H That's what its team believed, that's what its management believed (evenF after June 25th, when they made it clear to their people that it was aE 'business decision' having nothing whatsoever to do with technical oruJ schedule issues), and they're those by far best qualified to have made theL assessment.  There was a reason Intel wanted to scoop them up, and it wasn't because they were incompetent.  E The server group, however, was not in the same boat at all.  They hadpJ over-promised, under-delivered, and even then delivered late on the EV6 GSI series - to the point where the problems became obvious early enough thatwI the EV7 chip team made sure that the most the server team would be calledt? upon to do with EV7s would be to snap them together like Legos.   F It would not be unreasonable to suspect that this created a modicum ofI rivalry/tension between the two groups, and that this might have made the L server contingent all the more ready to tell Compaq that the Alpha processorG really wasn't very important to future server efforts, couldn't compete L long-term with Itanic, etc.  It also might have steered their preferences toL 'blade'-style architectures, since they're by definition pretty difficult toJ 'steal' onto the chip (though equally unable to take advantage of the kindH of scalability EV7 makes possible).  If so, they were actively venal; if* not, they were merely incompetent (again).  G It's worth evaluating just what the June 25th technology give-away costoJ Compaq in leadership, because otherwise it's easy to pass it off as just aA minor performance issue that would have been eclipsed by the nexteI process-shrink.  I've covered the processor core pretty well in the past,oG and the recent statement from the 'Wither ALL-IN-1' post by Bob Knowles G captured some of the basics:  EV79 is projected (now even by Compaq) to L exceed the performance of Itanic in 2004, even though the latter (Montecito,C if Intel sticks to its announced schedule) will be one full processhL generation ahead of it, which means that EV8 (also having been scheduled forK 2004) would have offered about 3 times the per-processor performance of thesH Itanics it would have been competing with (even though, again, being oneK full process generation behind them).  This would have allowed AlphaServersmK to compete on equal footing with Itanic servers having 2 to 4 times as many>, processors - just on core performance alone.  F What I haven't adequately appreciated until more recently has been theH multiplicative effect of the EV7 on-chip multi-processor support (and toI perhaps a lesser degree its on-chip memory support).  The first effect of L having significantly better MP scaling characteristics than Itanic is simplyJ that as soon as more than a few Itanic processors are required in a serverK for a given load, the relative inefficiency of their interconnects comparediL with EV7/EV8's increases the '2 to 4' times as many ratio above to more likeL '3 to 6', at which point it truly doesn't matter a damn if Intel is *giving*C the Itanics away:  the AlphaServers will still be considerably morei" cost-effective doing the same job.  K But Itanic isn't the only competition out there, and both Hammer and POWER4.H also have on-chip MP support.  True enough, but once again Alpha has (orK would have had, if its death-warrant had not allowed others to trump it) an L ace up its sleeve, because the Hammer architecture maxes out at 8 processorsF (or 16 if they go to a dual-core variant, as both rumors and their MPFK presentation last October suggest) and the POWER4 architecture maxes out atcJ 32 processors (16 dual-core packages, spread across 4 modules) - and whileE both *might* be able to extend these limits in the future, there's no,I indication that they could do so with anything like the efficiency of thet 'mesh' approach that EV7 has.   C Now, as per-processor performance improves and effective clustering K mechanisms become more common, there is indeed a case that can be made thatuG very-high-processor-count SMP or NUMA servers aren't very important anyFE more.  But just in case they are, Alpha would have offered *far* morecH expandibility (up to 128 processors) than the only alternatives with theK on-chip support that makes very-high-processor-count boxes highly efficient. in the first place.   K So Compaq would have been untouchable in both per-processor performance andvH server scalability, had it chosen to be.  And while Alpha has never beenG sold at commodity prices, it has always managed to make at least modest>E profits at *reasonable* prices, even with negligible marketing by its>H owner - so would have been a cost/performance leader as well as purely a performance leader.k  J That's what Compaq threw away and still appears to be trying to justify byK casting doubt upon its worth.  Lying bastards to the end:  they and Carly'sr team should be a great match.p   - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 03 May 2002 10:34:18 -0400r* From: Bob Supnik <bsupnik@nauticusnet.com>$ Subject: SIMH 2.9-8 (Re: SIMH 2.9-7)8 Message-ID: <iq75du0aor1tpr71vc3jordh7su6raas93@4ax.com>  D Posted 2.9-8 last night.  Sorry for the rapid churn, but I found the@ problem with using compressed libraries under VMS (autoincrementF indexed wasn't logging register changes correctly).  There was anotherD problem, as well: memory management exceptions weren't clearing trapE requests.  Finally, the TODR load automatically at boot time from the ? host OS clock.  VMS operation should now be much more reliable.d  ) Usual spot: http://simh.trailing-edge.come   /Bob  . On Mon, 29 Apr 2002 10:40:48 -0400, Bob Supnik  <bsupnik@nauticusnet.com> wrote:  < >Just posted 2.9-7 of SIMH to http://simh.trailing-edge.com. ><snip>n   ------------------------------   Date: 3 May 2002 12:08:23 GMTu1 From: bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)F0 Subject: Re: SKC Morphs Again... We're Now SKHPC, Message-ID: <aatujn$2v37$1@info.cs.uofs.edu>  ; In article <hekA8.63523$%s3.24921933@typhoon.ne.ipsvc.net>, 4  "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com> writes: |> rI |> Well, the 206MHz StrongARM processor and the 64MB of memory in my iPAQeB |> utterly trounce the specs of the VAX 11/750 I managed in 82/83. |> cA |> Of course, the iPAQ doesn't support 30 interactive logins! ;-}l  D That's like looking at a PDP-11 running RT-11 and saying the machine only supports one user. @ Put a real OS on it and all that changes.  Especially now that I( understand it suppoorts 802.11 wireless.   bill   -- eJ Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   s   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 03 May 2002 14:52:24 +0100hU From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <andrew_nospam.harrison_remove_this@sun#.com>h0 Subject: Re: SKC Morphs Again... We're Now SKHPC0 Message-ID: <aau4mo$hkr$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   Bob Ceculski wrote:   t > "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote in message news:<xG5A8.38273$Lj.2759422@bin4.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>... > 7 >>"David Froble" <davef@tsoft-inc.com> wrote in message ( >>news:3CD0CAA5.1010202@tsoft-inc.com... >>K >>>Hey Bill, do you do anything besides watch for Rob's posts?  I never get: >>> 
 >> to jump >> >>>on him first. >>>BL >>Actually, it's Rob's posts that seem to jump out at me, and responses haveM >>become almost automatic since his material doesn't change much.  Of course,o: >>that can give my responses a certain sameness as well... >>N >>Just to break the monotony, I'm thinking of making up a Letterman-style 'topK >>ten' list of reasons why we're all still breathlessly awaiting the public B >>debut of Itanic 2.  At this rate, EV7 and Hammer may not only beJ >>embarrassingly faster, but embarrassingly faster to market as well.  AndN >>(while on the subject of Itanic 2's wondrous performance if and when), I wasL >>surprised to notice recently that USIII has made it up to 610 in SPECint2KF >>performance:  wouldn't it be amusing if after all the "Just wait forK >>McKinley!" hype over the past year Itanic *still* turned out to be at the# >>back of the pack?e >> >>- bill >> > D > but when EV8 shows up masquerading as itanic 3 ... your mouth will > drop open ...L >     3 But it isn't going to happen except in the phantasys- world occupied by some posters to this group.n   Soap box Hyde Park Corner Sunday Morning	 Be there.a   Regardss Andrew Harrisonn   ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 3 May 2002 11:37:52 -05001 From: "Dave Gudewicz" <david.gudewicz@abbott.com>d0 Subject: Re: SKC Morphs Again... We're Now SKHPC8 Message-ID: <aauegs$5bi$1@fizban.fizban.pprd.abbott.com>   Yes, the non-silicon version.P   Dave...g  F "Bob Kaplow" <kaplow_r@eisner.encompasserve.org.mars> wrote in message- news:AakAhUrcELKj@eisner.encompasserve.org...e5 > In article <evznA+pScZM6@eisner.encompasserve.org>,N- young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) writes:rI > > "As a response to my previous public rant disparaging the IA64, I wase directedI > > to take a good look at McKinley (now called Itanium 2) as it has beenr vastly > > improved. It is."  >m > Wasn't McKinley assisinated? > F >         "I tell you, freedom and human rights in America are doomed.F >         The U.S. government will lead the American people in and theF >         West in general into an unbearable hell and a choking life." >u2 > 26-October, 2001: A day that will live in infamy5 > Support Freedom: http://www.indefenseoffreedom.org/a   ------------------------------   Date: 3 May 2002 03:20:23 -0700d% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>a0 Subject: Some more words of wisdom from Capellas) Message-ID: <aato9701u3q@drn.newsguy.com>p  1 http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/7/25142.htmle  ! Some quotes from Curly yesterday:e  L HP in the past has been seen as a kind of amorphous blob, asked one analyst.+ What can you do to clarify that perception?e  J "We're driving the move to standards-based computing across the board," he replied.  L In response to a question "What does Compaq stand for?", Capellas answered:   M "We've got to be the first go-to-market partner Intel, the first go-to-marketwN partner for Oracle and the first go-to-market partner for Microsoft," he said.  P "We've got to do this. We can't do microprocessor better than Intel," he added.   N Windows and Linux would " absolutely eviscerate midrange Unix", he predicted.    ------------------------------   Date: 3 May 2002 07:13:27 -0700l( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)4 Subject: Re: Some more words of wisdom from Capellas= Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0205030613.5141d05b@posting.google.com>   V Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net> wrote in message news:<aato9701u3q@drn.newsguy.com>...3 > http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/7/25142.htmle > # > Some quotes from Curly yesterday:o > N > HP in the past has been seen as a kind of amorphous blob, asked one analyst.- > What can you do to clarify that perception?e > L > "We're driving the move to standards-based computing across the board," he
 > replied. > N > In response to a question "What does Compaq stand for?", Capellas answered:  > O > "We've got to be the first go-to-market partner Intel, the first go-to-marketiP > partner for Oracle and the first go-to-market partner for Microsoft," he said. > R > "We've got to do this. We can't do microprocessor better than Intel," he added.  >   
 Reason #4:  E Bob Ceculski was right after all:  Intel is frantically scrambling toCB release Alpha in McKinley clothing, and is really, really close toH accomplishing this truly unbelievable feat.  Unfortunately, while it hasI already succeeded in getting the processor to process instructions out ofuH order, it has yet to figure out how to make any sense out of the result,J which currently more resembles a grab-bag than anything that could executeL an algorithm.  The existing EPIC and new Alpha teams are assiduously workingK on a meeting of the minds that could solve this problem, and reportedly arerH *very* close to creating a common language in which they can communicate8 with each other (an important milestone by any measure).   Bill   ------------------------------   Date: 3 May 2002 14:39:30 -0000P= From: Doc.Cypher <Use-Author-Supplied-Address-Header@[127.1]> 4 Subject: Re: Some more words of wisdom from Capellas6 Message-ID: <20020503143930.23487.qmail@gacracker.org>  8 On 3 May 2002, bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski) wrote:    K Aaaaargh! Would someone *please* take the keyboard off this man and put him  back in his padded cell!  I God help anyone who reads c.o.v. with a modem, they'll be gunning for Bobe C.     Doc. -- E6 The bigger the humbug, the better people will like it.K ~ Phineas Taylor Barnum.                             https://vmsbox.cjb.nete   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 03 May 2002 15:57:36 +0100NU From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <andrew_nospam.harrison_remove_this@sun#.com> 4 Subject: Re: Some more words of wisdom from Capellas0 Message-ID: <aau8h0$jg0$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   Alan Greig wrote:p  3 > http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/7/25142.htmlA > # > Some quotes from Curly yesterday:  > N > HP in the past has been seen as a kind of amorphous blob, asked one analyst.- > What can you do to clarify that perception?t > L > "We're driving the move to standards-based computing across the board," he
 > replied. > N > In response to a question "What does Compaq stand for?", Capellas answered:  > O > "We've got to be the first go-to-market partner Intel, the first go-to-marketoP > partner for Oracle and the first go-to-market partner for Microsoft," he said. >     / Mikey needs to get a bit closer to his partners- before spouting this.-  3 Oracle is devloped on Sun Solaris and given Compaqso3 market share with them no one could describe Compaqi. as the first-go-to-market partner with Oracle.  4 Being first to market with Intel and MS is a dubious3 accolade which most people would consider best kepte quiet rather than broadcasted.   Regards  Andrew Harrison    ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 3 May 2002 13:47:13 -0400+ From: "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@Compaq.com>i4 Subject: RE: Some more words of wisdom from CapellasT Message-ID: <BE56C50EA024184DAF48F0B9A47F5CF401AB1EF9@kaoexc01.americas.cpqcorp.net>   Andrew,e  D >>> Oracle is devloped on Sun Solaris and given Compaqs market shareH with them no one could describe Compaq as the first-go-to-market partner with Oracle.<<    Ahh, but what about the new HP ?  D Do you not think HP-UX + Tru64 UNIX + OpenVMS + W2K + Linux is not aF compelling reason for Oracle to want to do much more business with the new HP?    [beware - sarcasm alert]  E Also, btw .. Ahhh Yup, Oracle and Sun are really close these days.=20t  B - That's why Sun went off and bought a company that does clusteredE databases. Shhhh.. maybe Oracle and IBM (DB2) and Sybase did not hear  about that... :-)v www.clustra.com 2 http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/53/24476.html  E - That's why Sun did their big PeopleSoft benchmark in Jan'02 on DB2.mF http://www.sun.com/smi/Press/sunflash/2002-01/sunflash.20020107.1.html  B - That's why Sun and Oracle CEO's are dropping jabs at each other:B http://www.computerworld.com/storyba/0,4125,NAV47_STO67867,00.htmlG "Asked earlier if Sun and Oracle are now competitors, because Sun sells F an application server that competes with Oracle's, Ellison delivered a friendly potshot.h  F "I have this conversation with Scott a lot," he said, referring to SunH Chairman and CEO Scott McNealy. "He always wonders if I'm mad at him forE going into competitive markets, and the answer is no, because I don't-C think they stand a chance. Bless their heart, it's not what they dosH well. I think it's going to be really hard for an open standards company2 like that to get deep into the software business."  G - That's why Oracle has licensed Compaq Tru64 clustering to be the coreaA of their new database clustering technology in 9i and 10i RAC.=20e   [sarcasm alert off]c  7 Ahh .. Yup, Oracle and Sun are really close these days.h   :-)   
 Kerry Main Senior Consultantr Compaq Canada Corp.c Professional Services  Voice: 613-592-4660  Fax  :  819-772-7036 Email: Kerry.Main@Compaq.com     -----Original Message-----' From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancyn7 [mailto:andrew_nospam.harrison_remove_this@sun#.com]=20e Sent: May 3, 2002 10:58 AM To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Como4 Subject: Re: Some more words of wisdom from Capellas         Alan Greig wrote:d  3 > http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/7/25142.htmlr >=20# > Some quotes from Curly yesterday:t >=20H > HP in the past has been seen as a kind of amorphous blob, asked one=206 > analyst. What can you do to clarify that perception? >=20D > "We're driving the move to standards-based computing across the=20 > board," he replied.e >=20F > In response to a question "What does Compaq stand for?", Capellas=20 > answered:b >=20E > "We've got to be the first go-to-market partner Intel, the first=20wH > go-to-market partner for Oracle and the first go-to-market partner for   > Microsoft," he said. >=20    / Mikey needs to get a bit closer to his partnersa before spouting this.o  3 Oracle is devloped on Sun Solaris and given Compaqs 3 market share with them no one could describe Compaq-. as the first-go-to-market partner with Oracle.  4 Being first to market with Intel and MS is a dubious3 accolade which most people would consider best kepti quiet rather than broadcasted.   Regardsc Andrew Harrison    ------------------------------    Date: 03 May 2002 14:41:14 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com> Subject: Re: tape problems #2s- Message-ID: <87k7qlwx6d.fsf@prep.synonet.com>   2 "Hank Vander Waal" <hvanderw@novagate.com> writes:  5 > I have a 4mm dat tape drive on VMS 7.1 ALPHA system   F > when I try to restore from the tape backup gets an error just beforeF > it starts the desired saveset The first save set works just fine.  I@ > can DUMP the tape and can see the 2nd saveset is there and theE > contents of it.  Is there ANY program or procedure that will let menF > get past the error and either restore or copy down the 2nd saveset??  e? > I have tried the tape on other drives and get the same error.f   Don't you just love DAT!  E If you can get the drive to continue reading bits from the tape aftereA the error spot, then Save Set Utility (SSU) with the right set of @ switches will get as much as it can off and into a new save set.   -- I< Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.p@                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------   Date: 3 May 2002 06:49:30 -0700t) From: smolik@stanpol.com.pl (G.S - newsy)  Subject: Re: tape problems #2r= Message-ID: <d3871f1f.0205030549.277b3878@posting.google.com>t  s "Hank Vander Waal" <hvanderw@novagate.com> wrote in message news:<000901c1eaef$5f2925a0$9396a8c6@manufact5l8vs8>...t5 > I have a 4mm dat tape drive on VMS 7.1 ALPHA system I > when I try to restore from the tape backup gets an error just before itrN > starts the desired saveset  The first save set works just fine.   I can DUMPL > the tape and can see the 2nd saveset is there and the contents of it.   IsH > there ANY program or procedure that will let me get past the error and/ > either restore or copy down the 2nd saveset??s > ? > I have tried the tape on other drives and get the same error.o  #  Can you exactly locate the error ?   Do: $ MOUNT/FOREIGN drive_name:n& $ SET MAGTAPE/SKIP=FILES=2 drive_name:  B  Then you probably located after the first data of first save-set,+ before the END-OF-FILE tape FILE contens :)i%  Check *when* you get a error, doing:t  $ DUMP/BLOCK=COUNT=1 drive_name:  one-by-one.'  You may locate 2. EOF (tape EOF) mark:y - end of the RMS save-set file& - end of the header of the second file=  If you get a error within the range (before the 2. tape EOF)e@ - but can read rest - then the data can be copied "someway" (to  disk or other tape).$  Send description what happens... :)    Regards, Gotfrydn7 (excuse no sig, message sent accidentally using google)a   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 03 May 2002 16:04:23 +0100iU From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <andrew_nospam.harrison_remove_this@sun#.com>aY Subject: Re: The 'tone' of c.o.v. (was Re: Prediction:  VMS lives, merger or no  merger!)r0 Message-ID: <aau8tn$jlv$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   Bob Koehler wrote:   > In article <3CCFEF30.3030408@sun.com>, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <andrew_nospam.remove_this.harrison@sun.com> writes:g > @ >>Since when did using SAP, Oracle Applications, Baan and other @ >>applications suites as examples constitute a small hand picked; >>dataset. I know as an OpenVMS practitioner you havn't had ; >>much exposure to them but that doesn't give you an excuser< >>to write them off as small hand picked none representative; >>examples. Do you know how many customers use Oracle Apps,m, >>SAP, Baan, JDE, PeopleSoft and Siebel ???? >>> >>I also used App servers iPlanet and WLS as examples they are& >>also not small hand picked datasets. >> >> > G >    Hm.  I keep hearing about these, but I've never actualy met anyoneiH >    who uses them.  Must be PHM musings.  Or maybe from some fellow who >    only works in one market. >     5 Many people don't even realise they are running them.   6 For example Retek one of the biggest supply chain apps5 uses WLS under the hood. Most Portals are based on and Apps server of some kind etc.     ; The customer I am working for has selected 70ish major appsA> for roll out about 20% of these use WLS or another apps server= Others used other methods of providing apps level clustering/. state replication.    @ >    I and all all the people I work with still need a damn goodG >    developement environment.  DEC's editors and compilers have alwaysi( >    beat the crap out of any fancy IDE. > I >    Now that VMS is heading toward Intel compilers I'm waiting to see ifv >    Intel compilers improve.t >    nK >    The good news is that Compaq has just hooked their C and C++ compilers B >    along with the EDT keypad into a popular free IDE (netbeans). > D >    Or do you have a problem with us using netbeans instead of SAP? >     B No but then NetBeans is an IDE and SAP is a ERP package they arn't   similar fruit at all.n Regardst Andrew Harrison    ------------------------------    Date: 03 May 2002 10:25:07 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>X Subject: Re: The 'tone' of c.o.v. (was Re: Prediction:  VMS lives, merger or no merger!)- Message-ID: <878z72ynlo.fsf@prep.synonet.com>f  , "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> writes:  D > So once again, the only 'deficiency' VMS suffers from in this areaB > is the fact that the user (either in the application or, in someD > cases, optionally via externally-settable parameters) must specifyB > what s/he wants, the defaults being ridiculously conservative inF > today's environment.  XFC will fix even that, but the fix is without > question long overdue.  B And that C, in order to be compatable with a retro 60s putrid pileD of patches, stomps on the defaults and over rules in a near maximalyE pessimal way. So, for C, you *DO* need to resort to stupidity. Again.,# But that should not suprise anyone.      -- t< Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.e@                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------   Date: 3 May 2002 05:55:57 -0700s( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)A Subject: Re: Top Ten reasons why we're still waiting for McKinleyn< Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0205030455.2b9a890@posting.google.com>  r "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote in message news:<hGiA8.47113$Lj.3347858@bin4.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>... >  > Reason #4: > G > Bob Ceculski was right after all:  Intel is frantically scrambling to D > release Alpha in McKinley clothing, and is really, really close toJ > accomplishing this truly unbelievable feat.  Unfortunately, while it hasK > already succeeded in getting the processor to process instructions out ofcJ > order, it has yet to figure out how to make any sense out of the result,L > which currently more resembles a grab-bag than anything that could executeN > an algorithm.  The existing EPIC and new Alpha teams are assiduously workingM > on a meeting of the minds that could solve this problem, and reportedly are J > *very* close to creating a common language in which they can communicate: > with each other (an important milestone by any measure). >  > - bill  G I guess I wasn't so clueless after all, hugh?  I expect an apology froml= everyone who said I was clueless, ignorant, imbicile ... etc.hH This wasn't hard to see ... Q finding a bug, EPIC, the first performanceI reports, EPIC, the dissapearing white paper on the Q site from a retiring G 25 year DEC engineer who stated in detail why DEC chose RISC over EPIC,tH and of course if EPIC was doable, why not in the early 80's when it hit?H If the alpha engineers can't get alpha and epic to mesh, then Intel willH have to forget about their face and start worrying about their rear endsF and drop epic and use pure EV8, and Carly should then port hpux to theE tru64 core ... if Intel fails to do this, I predict they will become ": second to AMD, and eventually blow away like DEC and Q ...   ------------------------------  + Date: Fri, 03 May 2002 15:14:40 +0100 (MET)-9 From: Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com><A Subject: Re: Top Ten reasons why we're still waiting for McKinleyl; Message-ID: <01KHANC2PAXU8Y8ZDE@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>t  ) bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski) wrote:e  t > "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote in message news:<hGiA8.47113$Lj.3347858@bin4.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>... > >  > > Reason #4: > > I > > Bob Ceculski was right after all:  Intel is frantically scrambling to F > > release Alpha in McKinley clothing, and is really, really close toL > > accomplishing this truly unbelievable feat.  Unfortunately, while it hasM > > already succeeded in getting the processor to process instructions out of L > > order, it has yet to figure out how to make any sense out of the result,N > > which currently more resembles a grab-bag than anything that could executeP > > an algorithm.  The existing EPIC and new Alpha teams are assiduously workingO > > on a meeting of the minds that could solve this problem, and reportedly areRL > > *very* close to creating a common language in which they can communicate< > > with each other (an important milestone by any measure). > > 
 > > - bill > I > I guess I wasn't so clueless after all, hugh?  I expect an apology from7? > everyone who said I was clueless, ignorant, imbicile ... etc.iJ > This wasn't hard to see ... Q finding a bug, EPIC, the first performanceK > reports, EPIC, the dissapearing white paper on the Q site from a retiringoI > 25 year DEC engineer who stated in detail why DEC chose RISC over EPIC,oJ > and of course if EPIC was doable, why not in the early 80's when it hit?J > If the alpha engineers can't get alpha and epic to mesh, then Intel willJ > have to forget about their face and start worrying about their rear endsH > and drop epic and use pure EV8, and Carly should then port hpux to theG > tru64 core ... if Intel fails to do this, I predict they will become a< > second to AMD, and eventually blow away like DEC and Q ...  C At the moment, I just have email access to Info-VAX, not even NNTP yI access to comp.os.vms, much less a videophone, nevertheless staring into iD my DECterm I can clearly see Bill's tongue pressing firmly into his  cheek.  3 I'm still waiting for the $1000 counter-offer.  :-|r   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 03 May 2002 15:59:31 GMTr( From: spam@devnull.com (Russell Wallace)A Subject: Re: Top Ten reasons why we're still waiting for McKinleyl0 Message-ID: <3cd2b3b5.102469621@news.eircom.net>  @ On 3 May 2002 05:55:57 -0700, bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski) wrote:  s >"Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote in message news:<hGiA8.47113$Lj.3347858@bin4.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>...P >> m
 >> Reason #4:s >> hH >> Bob Ceculski was right after all:  Intel is frantically scrambling to% >> release Alpha in McKinley clothing1  . >I guess I wasn't so clueless after all, hugh?  4 What's the emoticon for an anime-style sweatdrop? :)   --  3 "Mercy to the guilty is treachery to the innocent."u! http://www.esatclear.ie/~rwallace  mail:rw(at)eircom(dot)net.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 03 May 2002 09:38:46 +0100g( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1>- Subject: Re: UK folks this might interest you ) Message-ID: <3CD24C96.E44B887B@127.0.0.1>-   "antonio.carlini" wrote: >  > Elliott Roper wrote: > F > > I've not noticed a brewery when visiting that very famous address. > 4 > Then you drove in with your eyes and nose shut :-)  > Oh, there's nothing like the smell of a brewery. Mmmmmmmmmmmm.  ; I used to work in a bakery, and that wasn't too bad either.e  H On Orkney recently I visited the Highland Park distillery, another nasal delight.   -- n( Regards, Nic Clews CSC Computer Sciences nclews at csc dot comd   ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 3 May 2002 12:43:09 +0000  From: Steve.Spires@yellgroup.com- Subject: Re: UK folks this might interest youo: Message-ID: <OFA12EF1CB.6D1BC19B-ON00256BAE.0045C2DB@btyp>   Me too!t  ! Wolverhampton and Dudley Brewery.n  J And to bring it back on topic, they are, or were 4 or 5 years ago, big VMS users.   Cheers   Steve Si        < Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1> on 05/03/2002 08:38:46 AM    To:        Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com cc:uD From:      Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1>, 3 May 2002, 8:38 a.m.  $ Re: UK folks this might interest you     "antonio.carlini" wrote: >s > Elliott Roper wrote: >MF > > I've not noticed a brewery when visiting that very famous address. > 4 > Then you drove in with your eyes and nose shut :-)  > Oh, there's nothing like the smell of a brewery. Mmmmmmmmmmmm.  ; I used to work in a bakery, and that wasn't too bad either.:  H On Orkney recently I visited the Highland Park distillery, another nasal delight.   --( Regards, Nic Clews CSC Computer Sciences nclews at csc dot comi          F ______________________________________________________________________     [Information] -- PostMaster:D This transmission is intended solely for the addressee(s) and may beG confidential. If you are not the named addressee, or if the message haspG been addressed to you in error, you must not read, disclose, reproduce,P$ distribute or use this transmission.  H Delivery of this message to any person other than the named addressee isG not intended in any way to waive confidentiality.  If you have receivedSK this transmission in error please contact the sender or delete the message.v  
 Thank you.  D Yell Limited, Queens Walk, Oxford Road, Reading, Berkshire, RG1 7PT.; Registered in England and Wales, registered number 4205228.t  I Yellow Pages Sales Limited, Queens Walk, Oxford Road, Reading, Berkshire,tD RG1 7PT. Registered in England and Wales, registered number 1403041.   ------------------------------   Date: 3 May 2002 07:54:17 -0500r- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)a- Subject: Re: UK folks this might interest youe3 Message-ID: <e21KLJt21lo4@eisner.encompasserve.org>h  T In article <3CD24C96.E44B887B@127.0.0.1>, Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1> writes: > @ > Oh, there's nothing like the smell of a brewery. Mmmmmmmmmmmm. > = > I used to work in a bakery, and that wasn't too bad either.  > J > On Orkney recently I visited the Highland Park distillery, another nasal
 > delight. >   H    Used to live down the street from a chocolate candy plant.   And then=    my sister lived in Hershey for a while.  Breath in deeply.a   ------------------------------    Date: 03 May 2002 12:22:25 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>/ Subject: Re: VAX decommissioning/secure HD wipel- Message-ID: <87elgtyi66.fsf@prep.synonet.com>i  , Arne Vajhj <arne.vajhoej@gtech.com> writes:  ) > There are different levels of security:1B > 1) physical destuction of the disks (melting them to scrap iron): > 2) overwrite all blocks with random bit patterns X times  ? And hope there is nothing 'interesting' in any NVM and FLASH in5
 the drive.  ' > 3) just delete everything with /ERASEe1 > 4) cross your fingers and hope  the buyer do itw; This one seems to be the Govt and industry standard here :)r     --  < Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.n@                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------    Date: 03 May 2002 15:09:27 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>3 Subject: Re: VAXstation 4000 90 and serial console? - Message-ID: <877kmlwvvc.fsf@prep.synonet.com>r  ; Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> writes:h  L > > I have a digital VAXstation 4000 90 i want to connect to a PC with Linux > > and minicom, t  a% > I would suggest a real terminal....a  = Or at least toss minicom and use KERMIT. I think minicom will ? play hard to get unless the modem statuslines are 'just right'.p   -- d< Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda. @                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 3 May 2002 11:59:11 +0200" From: "apeh43" <apeh43@axelero.hu> Subject: virtual IO cache , Message-ID: <aatml5$svt$1@namru.matavnet.hu>   Hi All !  I Anybody knows where and how can I set the size of the Virtual IO Cache ona ALPHA ?t     Thanks.    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 03 May 2002 12:21:00 +0200e9 From: Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com>v Subject: Re: virtual IO cachet' Message-ID: <3CD2648C.5D31C385@aaa.com>r   $ mc sysgen    SYSGEN>  SH VCC_MAXSIZEnH Parameter Name           Current    Default     Min.      Max.     Unit  DynamicSH --------------           -------    -------    -------   -------   ----  -------fA VCC_MAXSIZE                 6400       6400          0 2000000000  Blocks     1    " $ sea sys$system:modparams.dat vcc  VCC_MAXSIZE             = 128000 $    And then autogen...    Jan-Erik Sderholm.   
 apeh43 wrote:, > 
 > Hi All ! > K > Anybody knows where and how can I set the size of the Virtual IO Cache on,	 > ALPHA ?l > 	 > Thanks.-   ------------------------------   Date: 03 May 2002 17:03:41 GMT- From: "Jim Strehlow" <jimSnoSpam@data911.com>: Subject: Re: virtual IO cache 0 Message-ID: <aauftd$1bu@dispatch.concentric.net>  ; Also VCC_FLAGS = 1 to use the "original" virtual i/o cache.   > The default on OpenVMS v7.3 is VCC_FLAGS = 2 for an XFC cache.K Most recommendations are to continue to use the original virtual i/o cache.t   Jim Strehlow, Data911 Systems  www.data911.comr  - "apeh43" <apeh43@axelero.hu> wrote in messagej& news:aatml5$svt$1@namru.matavnet.hu...
 > Hi All !K > Anybody knows where and how can I set the size of the Virtual IO Cache one	 > ALPHA ?i	 > Thanks.e   ------------------------------    Date: 03 May 2002 14:36:49 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>+ Subject: Re: VMS 6.2 file ownership probleml- Message-ID: <87offxwxdq.fsf@prep.synonet.com>_  , "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> writes:  E > But to answer the question that was asked: doesn't it work that wayoF > already?  My not-too-old copy of the RMS reference manual states (atF > the end of the chapter on the Protection XAB) "If you wish to createB > an output file with a UIC different from your own, you must haveE > system privilege (SYSPRV)" (which is the way I remember it from RSXe > as well).a  J Sigh... Once appon a time, that is just what VMS did. Files where owned byD their creator, and all was nice and simple and good. The the marvelsD of marketing decreeded it was all too much, and that files would nowC be owned by the directory they where entered into. The original way0D was 'too confusing'. ( No, I am NOT making this up... ) Details like> 'Who owns a file if you enter it into several directories?' orE 'Who owns a file that is created with NO file name, then entered?' orlP `And why should that be different to creating it with a name in one fell swoop?'( all got the royal order of the handwave. (see Fig 1)s  I Now you need to give the creater SYSPRIV. Mind, then he want have to carer$ about quotas and that sort of stuff.   -- t< Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.>@                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------   Date: 3 May 02 19:51:54 +0200e) From: p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture) + Subject: Re: VMS 6.2 file ownership problem>) Message-ID: <f6bqIuTpG83o@elias.decus.ch>   s In article <Y7Sz8.8$fS1.173180@cacnews.cac.cpqcorp.net>, hammond@not@peek.ppb.cpqcorp.net (Charlie Hammond) writes: * > In article <3CCF5057.4C715738@fsi.net>, 5 > "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> writes:  > G >>What always goofed me up about that was because I could, the softwaretH >>did, without me so specifying. Wish I could have had more control over+ >>it without dropping/resetting privileges.  > B > If you run with privs on by default, you are asking for trouble.A > With privs on, it is just TOO EASY to do something "bad" beforec@ > you realize it.  I have caused myself worse problems than you 0 > describe by forgettting I had privs turned on! > = > I have defined two symbols to turn privs on and off easily:a >  > PEEK> sho sym priv >   PRIV == "SET PROC/PRIV=ALL"p > PEEK> sho sym depriv3 >   DEPRIV == "SET PROC/PRIV=(NOALL,NETMBX,TMPMBX)"e > I > Other's have a "PRIV" command that re-sets the "$" (or whatever) promptg8 > to something else that reminds you of having privs on.  * FWIW, I have the following symbol defined:  < $ mypriv :== set proc/priv=(noall,'f$getjpi("","AUTHPRIV")')   ------------------------------   Date: 3 May 2002 02:20 CDT' From: carl@gerg.tamu.edu (Carl Perkins)- Subject: Re: VMSTAR , Message-ID: <3MAY200202201882@gerg.tamu.edu>  1 koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes...'i }In article <55f85d77.0205020655.68a27c0@posting.google.com>, P.Young@unsw.EDU.AU (Patrick Young) writes:n } A }> I'm also in the middle of increasing the maximum file size for > }> files in the archive to break the "unsigned int" byte count- }> limit (Alpha, and I expect Itanium, only).i } F }   Is there really any value in making it longer than naml$c_maxrss ?  B Are you sure he was referring to file name size and not file size?0 As in allowing you to tar files bigger than 4GB?   --- Carl   ------------------------------   Date: 3 May 2002 07:50:07 -0500 - From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)p Subject: Re: VMSTAR 3 Message-ID: <C6S++shz76y+@eisner.encompasserve.org>w  V In article <3MAY200202201882@gerg.tamu.edu>, carl@gerg.tamu.edu (Carl Perkins) writes:3 > koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes... k > }In article <55f85d77.0205020655.68a27c0@posting.google.com>, P.Young@unsw.EDU.AU (Patrick Young) writes:  > } C > }> I'm also in the middle of increasing the maximum file size forl@ > }> files in the archive to break the "unsigned int" byte count/ > }> limit (Alpha, and I expect Itanium, only).- > } H > }   Is there really any value in making it longer than naml$c_maxrss ? > D > Are you sure he was referring to file name size and not file size?2 > As in allowing you to tar files bigger than 4GB? >   G    No, I may have misread it.  I thought he was talking about file name$F    sizes and didn't see the change of subject.  tar files should be as    big as possible.t   ------------------------------    Date: 03 May 2002 11:34:26 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>0 Subject: Re: Web based/encrypted printing (O.T.)- Message-ID: <87n0vhyke5.fsf@prep.synonet.com>n  ) David Mathog <mathog@caltech.edu> writes:s   > Michael Austin wrote:e  E > > do you have a list of these printers or terminal servers that canlA > > interface into standard printers that support these features?a  E > That's the thing - I don't know of _ANY_ printers that support this E > sort of thing. I recall a reference (but not a manufacturer's name)lE > to an external box that can do something along these lines (but notc? > exactly the same) for HP printers It wouldn't be particularlyu? > difficult to build something similar using Linux and place ithF > between the printer and the network.  But the whole point of my postA > was that this capability could be incorporated into the printerE? > itself and so eliminate the need for one extra box per secure 
 > printer.  A Sounds like a good job for the, DESKA??, the DES trancievers, andhC the Key control SW that VMS had years ago. Usefull stuff that workso$ is probably impossible to get now...   -- a< Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.t@                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------    Date: 03 May 2002 15:05:00 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>0 Subject: Re: What does "affordable" mean to you?- Message-ID: <87bsbxww2r.fsf@prep.synonet.com>e  + p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture) writes:A  ' > Have a look at these and be dismayed:   o= > http://www.timesleader.com/mld/timesleader/news/3146951.htmt= > http://www.timesleader.com/mld/timesleader/news/3146952.htm8= > http://www.timesleader.com/mld/timesleader/news/3124134.htm   = That's novel. It takes real skill to screw up an AS400 systemi> that bad. And before someone has the idea they would be better> off with VMS, then think about the how you make a system proof against this sort of fool.  = Almost as good as the finacial group who did their DB backupsu? into a GZIPed tarball. No, better, the GZIPed tarball is prettyn standard unix stupidity...   -- c< Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.p@                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------   Date: 3 May 2002 12:44:54 GMT.1 From: bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)e0 Subject: Re: What does "affordable" mean to you?, Message-ID: <aau0o6$2v37$4@info.cs.uofs.edu>  - In article <87bsbxww2r.fsf@prep.synonet.com>, /  Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com> writes:o |>@ |> Almost as good as the finacial group who did their DB backupsB |> into a GZIPed tarball. No, better, the GZIPed tarball is pretty |> standard unix stupidity...I |>    B I give up, what difference does the internal format of the archiveA make??  At least with a GZIPed tarball you are relatively certaing@ to be able to read it on any of a number of possible machines in? an emergency.  Can the same be said of any proprietary formats?t   bill   -- eJ Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   ,   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 03 May 2002 07:43:40 GMTp, From: "Bob Knowles" <bob.knowles@compaq.com> Subject: Re: Wither ALL-IN-1 ?8 Message-ID: <McrA8.1$bH2.124020@cacnews.cac.cpqcorp.net>  7 "Bob Knowles" <bob.knowles@compaq.com> wrote in message 3 news:j9dA8.12$In2.435250@cacnews.cac.cpqcorp.net...l .i .g .rJ > > While I have your attention, is there any way to get the documentation on > the-G > > undocumented FMS calls that A1 uses to get a form's information (ind > particular3 > > field information and form display information)n > >uF > > For instance, if I want to develop an application which will mimic
 > ALL-IN-1D > > DASB access to indexed files, those routines are needed, but not included > in > > the FMS documentation. > L > I'll refer this question to the developer who is doing the Itanium port ofG > FMS - if anyone knows of any unsupported but useful documentation, hei will.l   And  here's the low-down:e  < Office Server uses a small number of undocumented FMS calls:  5 FDV$$ALLFLD, FDV$$ALLFRM, FDV$$ALLNMD and FDV$$LOAD_F   K but these call merely allow OFFSVR to run a callback routine within the FMS1E context. They require that OFFSVR also knows everything about the FMS E internal data structures, the body of the internal routine is simply:    !+  < ! Call callback with parameters: formname descriptor, handle   !-  ! ( .CALLBACK ) ( FRMNAM, HANDLE );m  E no interpretation or parsing of data - that is all up to the callback  routine to handle.  H So it's not a simple hidden interface, it's a complex interworking whereL OFFSVR knows all about FMS internals and FMS supports extensions for OFFSVR.  I It is just not feasible to expose the individual calls without suppling asH vast amount of supporting information about internal FMS data structuresJ which in the end would mean releasing major chunks of the FMS source code.  H A situation which we cannot technically support and management would not	 sanction.    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 03 May 2002 08:47:26 -0400@% From: Jim Agnew <agnew@mail2.vcu.edu> ( Subject: Re: You can't beat the price...- Message-ID: <3CD286DE.B1E147A1@mail2.vcu.edu>M  ? That was nice of you to do that... I'm sure it's appreciated...t   Jimr   David Mathog wrote:i >  > David Mathog wrote:' > >t? > > We have some old DEC equipment and a pile of 8mm media that 2 > > we're giving away.  If you want any of it see: > > 4 > >   http://saf.bio.caltech.edu/www/decmachines.txt > >  > " > Everything has been claimed now. > 	 > Thanks,i >  > David Mathog > mathog@caltech.edu   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2002.244 ************************Sciences nclews at csc dot comi          F ______________________________________________________________________     [Information] -- PostMaster:D This transmission is intended solely for the addressee(s) and may beG confidential. If you are not the named addressee, or if the message haspG been addressed to you in error, you must not read, disclose, reproduce,P$ distribute or x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    Óx    ēx    œx    Ɠx    Ǔx    ȓx    ɓx    ʓx    ˓x    ̓x    ͓x    Γx    ϓx    Гx    ѓx    ғx    ӓx    ԓx    Փx    ֓x    דx    ؓx    ٓx    ړx    ۓx    ܓx    ݓx    ޓx    ߓx    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    x    