1 INFO-VAX	Sun, 05 May 2002	Volume 2002 : Issue 248       Contents:3 Re: Capellas: Linux, Windows Will 'Eviscerate' Unix 8 Re: CRN: Capellas: Linux, Windows Will 'Eviscerate' Unix Re: Deathbed confession?- Re: EDT or EVE (and a fine DCL hack, also...)  Error Message on ES-40 Re: Error Message on ES-40  Re: Fix for EDT emulation in EVEA How to rotate Apache/CSWS log files under VMS, without a restart? E Re: How to rotate Apache/CSWS log files under VMS, without a restart? E Re: How to rotate Apache/CSWS log files under VMS, without a restart? 4 MacOS/X is the leading Unix (was "Itanium Troubles") Re: OSU HTTP and FastCGI? 9 Re: Ot: Smells was (RE: UK folks this might interest you)  Re: Revisionist history  Re: Revisionist history  Re: Revisionist history  Re: Revisionist history  Re: Revisionist history - Timing postings - was Re: Alpha tuning didn't  Re: USB on OpenVMS Re: USB on OpenVMS Re: USB on OpenVMS( Re: VMS Bigots Unite To Form New Company( Re: VMS Bigots Unite To Form New Company( Re: VMS Bigots Unite To Form New Company. x86 limitations? - was Re: Revisionist history- Re: [OT] Re: UK folks this might interest you   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  $ Date: Sun, 5 May 2002 08:56:59 +02001 From: Michael Heiming <michael+USENET@heiming.de> < Subject: Re: Capellas: Linux, Windows Will 'Eviscerate' Unix- Message-ID: <r3l2ba.8lc.ln@charon.heiming.de>   3 John Vottero (<ud5cb99fqvtq85@news.supernews.com>):   8 > "Kenneth Farmer" <kfarmer@farmer.org> wrote in message; > news:VCtA8.31416$gd5.10719128@typhoon.southeast.rr.com...  >> >>  I http://www.crn.com/Sections/BreakingNews/BreakingNews.asp?ArticleID=35060  >> > B > I have to agree with Capellas, in fact, it seems obvious to me. 7 > You can no longer sell Unix by claiming that it's the = > "Open/Standard" O/S. Linux/NetBSD/FreeBSD are the only true # > open/standard operating systems.    D Not true, open standarts are about something else then open source, A there's no problem connecting Linux to a Tru64 NIS/NFS server or  C displaying X apps remotely, vice versa, you can tar files on Tru64  B and untar it on Linux, it just works seemlessly, that's what open A standarts are about. Same should be true for HP-UX <--> Linux or   any other *nix OS.   > Unix vendors have to start1 > pointing at their proprietary extensions as the D > reason to buy their flavor of *nix.  The world is going to wind up > withB > Windows, Linux and proprietary operation systems.  With OpenVMS,	 > NSK and < > Tru64/HP-UX,  HP rivals IBM as king of the proprietary OS. > @ > The real question (which is still unanswered) is: does HP viewA > it's proprietary OS's as a competitive advantage that should be C > promoted in order to advance it's position in all three arenas or C > as a cash cow that should be milked until it can convert everyone $ > to a Linux or Windows environment?  @ Tru64 has several advantages over HP-UX, starting with the IMHO B more powerfull alpha CPU and AdvFS. The HP service guard can't be = compared with the much more powerfull TruCluster Technologie.    Michael Heiming  --$ Remove the +SIGNS case mail bounces.   ------------------------------   Date: 5 May 2002 05:04:26 -0700 ( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)A Subject: Re: CRN: Capellas: Linux, Windows Will 'Eviscerate' Unix = Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0205050404.4bc5b72b@posting.google.com>   \ "John Vottero" <John@mvpsi.com> wrote in message news:<ud8ugntgr6l25c@news.supernews.com>...< > "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message( > news:3CD2E8D1.8DE99ABB@videotron.ca... > [snip]G > > Suppose Microsoft starts to have monopoly on enterprise systems and 
 >  decides to M > > include its SQL server free with the Windows OS. (in effect including the  >  cost H > > of SQL server in the price of Windows and preventing you from buying
 >  windows; > > without SQL server). How would Oracle feel about this ?  > I > For most intents and purposes, SQL Server IS included with Windows.  At K > least it is if the developer uses Microsoft tools.  Microsoft Data Engine N > (MSDE) is SQL server and can be freely redistributed with products developedM > with MS tools (Visual Studio and maybe others).  MSDE is SQL Server that is G > "optimized for 5 users".  It also has a few features disabled, mainly N > replication.   If your requirements exceed the limitations of MSDE, you just: > buy SQL Server, there are no changed to the application.  C No thanks ... we just had a pc running apps for handhelds using sql B server mysteriously develope corrupt db's ... the vendor tried all@ types of things ... reloading sql service pack 2, rebuilding theC files, but all failed ... they finally had to send a whole new box! @ We ran into similar corruption problem on an nt access setup ...D never had any problems w/rms ... windoze os is not only garbage, but their db's are as well!    ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 05 May 2002 15:59:04 GMT ( From: spam@devnull.com (Russell Wallace)! Subject: Re: Deathbed confession? 0 Message-ID: <3cd5569e.275272379@news.eircom.net>  4 On Fri, 03 May 2002 18:38:30 GMT, "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com> wrote:   K >I still think the tale has the makings of a book, but given Alpha's market K >penetration (or lack thereof) the book would appeal to a limited audience.   F If you (or anyone) ever decide to write it, consider me pre-ordering a copy :)    --  3 "Mercy to the guilty is treachery to the innocent." ! http://www.esatclear.ie/~rwallace  mail:rw(at)eircom(dot)net    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 05 May 2002 10:43:48 +0200 9 From: Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com> 6 Subject: Re: EDT or EVE (and a fine DCL hack, also...)' Message-ID: <3CD4F0C4.C5E63473@aaa.com>    Hi. 0 Regarding the "batch" capability of EDT vs. TPU,. I just happend to think of the VMS_SHARE tool.  0 Any file(s) are coded and included in a COM file/ that, when executed, runs an embeded TPU script 3 which recreates the files on a target system. Nice,  no 3'rd part tools needed.  7 The VMS_SHARE.COM itself is a 275 block/4000+ lines DCL 9 script written by Andy Harper at Kings College in London.   ? VMS_SHARE can be find (of course :-) ) on Hunter's archive at : ) http://www.process.com/openvms/index.html    Jan-Erik Sderholm   ------------------------------  $ Date: Sun, 5 May 2002 19:35:09 +0900& From: "David Lee" <phongle@kornet.net> Subject: Error Message on ES-40 + Message-ID: <ab316k$dfg$1@news1.kornet.net>   G Does any know what this message "12V Bulk Warn" means?  It displayed in I front of the ES-40 computer.   It comes and goes as I shutdown/reboot the 	 computer.   D I look everywhere on the user's guide, but can't seem to locate thisH error/warning message.  I wonder if it has anything to do with the power	 supplies.    Thanks for any help.   ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 05 May 2002 16:56:58 GMT 0 From: Jeffrey Chimene <jeff.nospam@systasis.net># Subject: Re: Error Message on ES-40 , Message-ID: <3CD567AD.963E9096@systasis.net>   Use the search, Luke:   0 http://dbforums.com/archive/184/2001/10/3/181390   > David Lee wrote: > I > Does any know what this message "12V Bulk Warn" means?  It displayed in K > front of the ES-40 computer.   It comes and goes as I shutdown/reboot the  > computer.  > F > I look everywhere on the user's guide, but can't seem to locate thisJ > error/warning message.  I wonder if it has anything to do with the power > supplies.  >  > Thanks for any help.   -- microsoft free by 2003   ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 05 May 2002 06:40:55 GMT 2 From: Mike Rechtman <michael.rechtman@digital.com>) Subject: Re: Fix for EDT emulation in EVE + Message-ID: <3CD4FC46.2DA3A6D6@digital.com>    Alan E. Feldman wrote:A <Lots snipped...>or dig up examples of how to do this, reject the F > worthless ones (GSR.TPU, for example, which still no one can tell me. > how to make work), find one that works, etc.  ? YAWFG (Yet Another Wrapper For GSR.TPU; does glogal replaace on  wild-carded 7 files.) The main body of code just builds the GSR file.    --<Start code>-- $ PID = f$getjpi("","PID")$ $ temp = "sys$scratch:GSR''PID'.TPU"< $ if f$sear( "''temp'" ) .nes. "" then delete/nolog 'temp';* $ Edit :== EDIT B $ if P1 .eqs. "" then read sys$command/prompt="File to edit : " P1 $ if P1 .eqs. "" then exitJ $!------------------------------------------------------------------------ $ open/write fil 'temp $ wf := "write fil" 3 $ wf "PROCEDURE global_search_replace( str1,str2 )" & $ wf " LOCAL src_range, replace_count" $ wf ""  $ wf "ON_ERROR" G $ wf "msg_txt := FAO("" Completed !UL replacement!%S "" , replace_count  );"  $ wf "MESSAGE(msg_txt);" $ wf "RETURN;" $ wf "ENDON_ERROR;"  $ wf ""  $ wf "replace_count := 0;" $ wf "LOOP" + $ wf "src_range := SEARCH( str1,FORWARD );"  $ wf "ERASE( src_range );"' $ wf "POSITION( END_OF( src_range ) );"  $ wf "COPY_TEXT( str2 );" * $ wf "replace_count := replace_count + 1;" $ wf "ENDLOOP;"  $ wf "ENDPROCEDURE;" $ wf ""  $! $ if P2 .nes. "" $ then" $       wf "in_str := ""''p2'"" ;" $ else: $       wf "in_str := READ_LINE ( "" Input_String :"" ) ;" $       wf "MESSAGE("" "");" $ endif * $ if ( P2 .nes. "" ) .and. ( P3 .nes. "" ) $ then# $       wf "out_str := ""''p3'"" ;"  $ else; $       wf "out_str := READ_LINE ( ""Output_String :"" ) ;"  $ endif ; $ wf "file_spec := GET_INFO( COMMAND_LINE,""file_name"" );"  $ wf "next_file := """"; "
 $ wf "Loop/ $ wf "  next_file := File_Search (file_spec); " " $ wf "  Exitif next_file = """"; ": $ wf "  msg_txt := FAO("" Working on !AS "" , next_file);" $ wf "  MESSAGE ( msg_txt ) ; " > $ wf "  main_buffer := CREATE_BUFFER( ""main"",next_file ) ; "2 $ wf "  POSITION( BEGINNING_OF( main_buffer ) ) ;"2 $ wf "  global_search_replace( in_str,out_str ) ;"$ $ wf "  WRITE_FILE( main_buffer ) ;"! $ wf "  DELETE ( main_buffer ) ;"  $ wf "Endloop ;"
 $ wf "EXIT ;"  $ wf "!" $ close fil J $!------------------------------------------------------------------------% $ define/user sys$input   sys$command & $ Edit/TPU/NOsection/Command='temp 'P1 $ delete/nolog 'temp';*  --<end code>--  F Also, replacing "Lastname, Firstname" with "Firstname Lastname" in TPU is  G easier than having to learn sed, if you use WILDCARD FIND for a pattern F "\u\l\., \u\l\." and a LEARN sequence. I'm not even sure it'll come to more typing...+ Just depends what your fingers are used to.    Mike --  E --------------------------------------------------------------------- E Usual disclaimer: All opinions are mine alone, perhaps not even that. ? Mike Rechtman                            *rechtman@tzora.co.il* F Kibbutz Tzor'a.                          Voice (home): 972-2-9908337  B   "20% of a job takes 80% of the time, the rest takes another 80%"E ---------------------------------------------------------------------  -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----  Version: 3.1: GCM/CS d(-)pu s:+>:- a++ C++ U-- L-- W++ N++ K? w--- V+++$6 PS+ PE-- t 5? X- tv-- b+ DI+ D-- G e++ h--- r+++ y+++@ ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------    ------------------------------   Date: 5 May 02 09:32:28 +0200 ) From: p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture) J Subject: How to rotate Apache/CSWS log files under VMS, without a restart?) Message-ID: <d5S5NQ5j+iHQ@elias.decus.ch>   L Subject says it all, really. From the documentation on www.apache.org, I can? find out how to do this on a *n*x system, but how to do on VMS?   N Sure I can drop and restart Apache, but in my netblock I am 3rd after a coupleO of Linux boxes in uptime ratings. It's quite nice to see OpenVMS sitting there, $ and I'd like to keep it that way :-)   __
 Paul Sture Switzerland    ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 05 May 2002 11:37:07 GMT 2 From: Mike Rechtman <michael.rechtman@digital.com>N Subject: Re: How to rotate Apache/CSWS log files under VMS, without a restart?+ Message-ID: <3CD541B3.2B076D57@digital.com>   5 From a .COM-file that runs WUSAGE on the apache logs:  <start>  $!E $ @sys$startup:apache$config.com NEW    <<-- Requires CSWS 1.1 or 1.2  $ !  $ wait 00:00:15  $ loop1:: $ if f$search("APACHE$ROOT:[LOGS]ACCESS_LOG.;-1") .nes. "" $ then4 $       rename/lo APACHE$ROOT:[LOGS]ACCESS_LOG.;-1 -2                 APACHE$ROOT:[LOGS]ACCESS_LOG.old;0 $       goto loop1 $ endif ( $ purge/lo APACHE$ROOT:[LOGS]ACCESS_LOG.* $ rename/lo APACHE$ROOT:[LOGS]ACCESS_LOG.; APACHE$ROOT:[LOGS]ACCESS_LOG.;0  $! $ loop2:9 $ if f$search("APACHE$ROOT:[LOGS]ERROR_LOG.;-1") .nes. ""  $ then3 $       rename/lo APACHE$ROOT:[LOGS]ERROR_LOG.;-1 - 1                 APACHE$ROOT:[LOGS]ERROR_LOG.old;0  $       goto loop2 $ endif ' $ purge/lo APACHE$ROOT:[LOGS]ERROR_LOG. H $ rename/lo APACHE$ROOT:[LOGS]ERROR_LOG.; APACHE$ROOT:[LOGS]ERROR_LOG.;0 $! $ loop3:? $ if f$search("APACHE$ROOT:[LOGS]SSL_REQUEST_LOG.;-1") .nes. ""  $ then9 $       rename/lo APACHE$ROOT:[LOGS]SSL_REQUEST_LOG.;-1 - 7                 APACHE$ROOT:[LOGS]SSL_REQUEST_LOG.old;0  $       goto loop3 $ endif - $ purge/lo APACHE$ROOT:[LOGS]SSL_REQUEST_LOG. / $ rename/lo APACHE$ROOT:[LOGS]SSL_REQUEST_LOG.; $ APACHE$ROOT:[LOGS]SSL_REQUEST_LOG.;0 $! <end>  Paul Sture wrote:  > N > Subject says it all, really. From the documentation on www.apache.org, I canA > find out how to do this on a *n*x system, but how to do on VMS?  > P > Sure I can drop and restart Apache, but in my netblock I am 3rd after a coupleQ > of Linux boxes in uptime ratings. It's quite nice to see OpenVMS sitting there, & > and I'd like to keep it that way :-) >  > __ > Paul Sture
 > Switzerland    --  E --------------------------------------------------------------------- E Usual disclaimer: All opinions are mine alone, perhaps not even that. ? Mike Rechtman                            *rechtman@tzora.co.il* F Kibbutz Tzor'a.                          Voice (home): 972-2-9908337  B   "20% of a job takes 80% of the time, the rest takes another 80%"E ---------------------------------------------------------------------  -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----  Version: 3.1: GCM/CS d(-)pu s:+>:- a++ C++ U-- L-- W++ N++ K? w--- V+++$6 PS+ PE-- t 5? X- tv-- b+ DI+ D-- G e++ h--- r+++ y+++@ ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------    ------------------------------   Date: 5 May 2002 08:31:39 -0700 ( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)N Subject: Re: How to rotate Apache/CSWS log files under VMS, without a restart?= Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0205050731.13a74688@posting.google.com>   Z p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture) wrote in message news:<d5S5NQ5j+iHQ@elias.decus.ch>...N > Subject says it all, really. From the documentation on www.apache.org, I canA > find out how to do this on a *n*x system, but how to do on VMS?  > P > Sure I can drop and restart Apache, but in my netblock I am 3rd after a coupleQ > of Linux boxes in uptime ratings. It's quite nice to see OpenVMS sitting there, & > and I'd like to keep it that way :-) >  > __ > Paul Sture
 > Switzerland   ? on Purveyor you set your logs to be created on a daily, weekly, < or monthly basis and don't even worry about that ... I don't know about Apache ...    ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 05 May 2002 10:26:51 GMT ; From: "Atlant G. Schmidt" <Atlant.Schmidt@YouKnowWhere.com> = Subject: MacOS/X is the leading Unix (was "Itanium Troubles") 0 Message-ID: <3CD509CE.3D4D72A1@YouKnowWhere.com>  / > David Michaels wrote (in "Itanium troubles"):  >  > Atlant Schmidt wrote:  > > By the way, MacOS/X is nowG > > the Unix with the largest marketshare, and by far the largest share  of > > Unix desktops. >  > Hi: > Do you mind sharing where you obtained this information?    F http://www.sun.com/smi/Press/sunflash/2002-03/sunflash.20020308.2.html  D March 8, 2002 .... Sun leads in worldwide UNIX server shipments withD 263,927 units shipped [for the year], more than IBM and HP combined.    8 http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2002/apr/17earnings.html  H ...Apple shipped 813 thousand Macintosh units during the quarter, up 8% from the year ago quarter. ...    G So, in *ONE QUARTER*, Apple shipped about 3 times as many units as Sun, F the largest Unix vendor, shipped in the entire year and as of Jan 1st,G *ALL* of those Macintoshes were running OS/X from the factory. At a run D rate that exceeds 2.4 Million desktops and laptops per year, I'd sayG that supports my claim fairly well. I don't have figures for Linux, andiF we could debate whether I meant to include that in "Unix", but there'sG no doubt that among the true Unixes, MacOS/X now has the leading share.    Atlant   ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 05 May 2002 15:02:34 GMTE3 From: Jeff Coffield <Jeffrey@DigitalSynergyInc.com>t" Subject: Re: OSU HTTP and FastCGI?5 Message-ID: <3CD5498F.A1210FC6@DigitalSynergyInc.com>e  * Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr wrote:  > > In article <4597c844.0205020657.27bdcc8@posting.google.com>,A > ondrej.prochazka@deutsche-boerse.com (Ondrej Prochazka) writes:f >s > >Hi, > >nJ > >Does anybody know if the current version of OSU HTTP server for OpenVMS- > >supports the OpenMarket FastCGI interface?e >iM > There's code in the 3.10alpha, at least, to support a FastCGI interface.  IV > haven't tried it yet.e >S > >If so, can one use the CGIi< > >and CGI::Fast modules provided with the VMS port of Perl? > 
 > Don't know.U >e	 > -- Alanw >mQ > ===============================================================================g2 >  Alan Winston --- WINSTON@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDUO >  Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056rO >  Physical mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 69, PO BOX 4349, STANFORD, CA  94309-0210iQ > ===============================================================================n  R I have written FastCGI modules in VMS Basic that accept connections from Apache on Linux. TheynN should accept a connection from any web server that has FastCGI support. It is significantly fasterQ than CGI aor even FastCGI in Perl as it gets compiled into the exe along with thei business logic.a  & Contact me if you would like the code.   -- Jeffl   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 04 May 2002 22:20:33 +0100S From: Roy Omond <Roy@Omond.net>dB Subject: Re: Ot: Smells was (RE: UK folks this might interest you)) Message-ID: <3CD450A1.80BC45A8@Omond.net>o  & paddy.o'brien@zzz.tg.nsw.gov.au wrote:  K > I could imagine a bakery and in my youth used to love the smell of coffee N > being ground.  But a brewery or distillery ... ??  I enjoy the products, butM > neither are very aromatic.  My experience of a distillery was the Bundaberg M > rum distillery in Queensland .au.  An experience, but not a pleasant smell. 0 > Similar to breweries I have been around in UK.  J I remember as a kid in Edinburgh (1950/60's), the smell of all the variousE breweries used to be quite sickening.  Then when I grew older, and nofE longer took sugar in coffee/tea, the smell suddenly became absolutelyd@ wonderful.  Still to this day, I love the smell of breweries and? distilleries.  Maybe when you reach puberty Paddy, things mightn
 change :-)  	 Roy Omond  Blue Bubble Ltd.   ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 05 May 2002 13:34:06 GMTw( From: spam@devnull.com (Russell Wallace)  Subject: Re: Revisionist history0 Message-ID: <3cd5343a.266466870@news.eircom.net>  E On 05 May 2002 06:12:56 +0800, Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>r wrote:  8 >"Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> writes: >nF >> But it is acedemic.  The decision, like it or not, was to not buildG >> EV8, and to concentrate on building platforms and not chips.  And to C >> be able to have a single server platform strategy for all O/S's.4 >48 >So ComHP is dumping x86 for servers? No more Proliants?  E I got the impression their plan was to dump x86 ultimately when IA-64  replaced it.  F Now that IA-64 seems unlikely to outlive Alpha let alone x86, probablyF their only option will be to switch to x86-64. It'll be interesting to& see how late they leave it to do this.   -- d3 "Mercy to the guilty is treachery to the innocent." ! http://www.esatclear.ie/~rwallaceL mail:rw(at)eircom(dot)netd   ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 05 May 2002 13:40:04 GMTH( From: spam@devnull.com (Russell Wallace)  Subject: Re: Revisionist history0 Message-ID: <3cd535a9.266834656@news.eircom.net>  4 On Sat, 04 May 2002 15:46:10 GMT, "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com> wrote:r  K >Almost certainly the case. So, why did they do what they did when they didaM >it, rather than announce IPF as a "complementary" architecture? Not everyoneeM >at CPQ is stupid, particularly the technology types who made the decision toq >"abandon chip."  E But the final decision to abandon chip was made by senior management,t not the technology types.a  8 >Seems to me CPQ thought it could get more leverage withH >Intel by effectively taking Alpha off the microprocessor playing field.  C *nod* That may very well have been one of the reasons on paper. ThebC impression I get, though (admittedly without anything even remotelyiA resembling inside information) is that their real reason was they C didn't want to be in the business of developing technology, only ofs= packaging and supporting it. They (Compaq management, not the0E engineers) then started looking for excuses to support this, and soonj found some.h   -- f3 "Mercy to the guilty is treachery to the innocent.".! http://www.esatclear.ie/~rwallace0 mail:rw(at)eircom(dot)nett   ------------------------------  " Date: Sun, 5 May 2002 14:04:19 GMT- From: Terry C Shannon <shannon@world.std.com>a  Subject: Re: Revisionist historyD Message-ID: <Pine.SGI.4.30.0205050956330.17651-100000@world.std.com>  # On Sun, 5 May 2002, JF Mezei wrote:    > David Froble wrote:tT > > So, how do you gain leverage?  By giving up the best leverage you may have?  NowP > > that Alpha is dead, Compaq doesn't have any leverage with Intel. If somebody- > > disagrees, can they specify the leverage?? >6, > Effective May 3rd, Compaq ceased to exist. > N > It remains to be seen how much, if any, goodwill that Compaq may have gottenI > from Intel in exchange for murdering Alpha and donating its reamins and + > compiler poeple will be transfered to HP.e >n  F Indeed it does, and good will is a hard thing to quantify. It would beH most interesting to learn what the cost of the June 25 decision has beenD to date. CPQ got an immediate writeoff that helped "save" (on paper,F anyhow) 2FQ01, and might have reduced expenses by $200M so far (that's. being generous, due to separation costs, etc).  G Without knowing the Alpha run rate for the past ten months, and for the G ten months in the year-earlier period, as well as the run rates for VMSrA and Tru64, it's tough to figure out the bottom line impact of the4I decision. It's made even tougher by the recession, Bin Laden's Big Day at 
 the WTC, etc.l  H Something tells me that the decision thus far is a red-ink ledger entry.   ------------------------------  " Date: Sun, 5 May 2002 14:08:22 GMT- From: Terry C Shannon <shannon@world.std.com>r  Subject: Re: Revisionist historyD Message-ID: <Pine.SGI.4.30.0205051005280.17651-100000@world.std.com>  # On Sun, 5 May 2002, JF Mezei wrote:    > Terry C Shannon wrote:J > > I suspect that CPQ got a better deal from Intel by taking Alpha out ofJ > > play than they would have gotten by just adding IPF as a complementaryI > > 64b architecture. Better in what regard? Financial, access to ItaniumaG > > Porting Fund $$$, co-marketing $$$, joint parallelism project, etc.n > @ > That is the same type of argument that Digital used to justifyI > killing/restricting its own products in order to gain the right to sellu > Microsoft products.s >   F I hope--and suspect--that Compaq's negotiators possessed more businessG acumen than did the wizards who took the first AEC offer that MicrosoftfJ threw over the transom. But the issue at hand is CPQ and INTC, not DEC and MSFT.     L > Everyone else just gets the right to sell those damned products without h= avingiL > to sacrifice their own limbs, but Digital willingly did so, thinking it w= ould > be in a better position. >pL > If Digital got such a "special" position close to Bill Gates' derri=E8re,=  howL > come Microsoft customers remained unaware that Digital was a prime Micros= oftt > support organisation ? > L > I bet that Compaq could have had access to that porting fund without havi= ng to $ > kill Alpha and donate its remains. >$  # There's a bit more to it than that.:   ------------------------------  " Date: Sun, 5 May 2002 14:14:53 GMT- From: Terry C Shannon <shannon@world.std.com>e  Subject: Re: Revisionist historyD Message-ID: <Pine.SGI.4.30.0205051010470.17651-100000@world.std.com>  * On Sun, 5 May 2002, Russell Wallace wrote:  6 > On Sat, 04 May 2002 15:46:10 GMT, "Terry C. Shannon"! > <terryshannon@attbi.com> wrote:) > M > >Almost certainly the case. So, why did they do what they did when they didxO > >it, rather than announce IPF as a "complementary" architecture? Not everyone(O > >at CPQ is stupid, particularly the technology types who made the decision to= > >"abandon chip." >fG > But the final decision to abandon chip was made by senior management,f > not the technology types.  >;: > >Seems to me CPQ thought it could get more leverage withJ > >Intel by effectively taking Alpha off the microprocessor playing field. >n  H Yep. MC and his pals made the final decision. Alpha's fate was sealed byD November 2000, which is shortly after the HPS folks made their finalI presentation to the Big Dogs. From that point forward it was all a matterfD of timing. I gather that the Alphacide remained one-point-safe untilH Capellas turned the launch key. The key probably was turned in 2FQ01, as> soon as it became known that the quarter was gonna be a loser.    ;  > *nod* That may very well have been one of the reasons onf paper.I The > impression I get, though (admittedly without anything even remotely C > resembling inside information) is that their real reason was they E > didn't want to be in the business of developing technology, only of ? > packaging and supporting it. They (Compaq management, not the G > engineers) then started looking for excuses to support this, and soonn
 > found some." >T    F That would be consistent with Capellas' June 12 "Transformation" memo.   ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 05 May 2002 14:32:34 GMTd- From: "John E. Malmberg" <wb8tyw@qsl.network>l6 Subject: Timing postings - was Re: Alpha tuning didn't* Message-ID: <3CD55DEE.5080704@qsl.network>  $ On June 17, 2002, Martyn will write: <snip>  B Sir, your time travel newsgroup client appears to be broken.  The E posting you are responding to occurred at least a month prior to the  + date that your posting showed up on usenet.-  D However, can you let us know what the winning powerball numbers are  going to be for the end of May?n   -Johnp wb8tyw@qsl.network Personal Opinion Only    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 05 May 2002 12:40:00 +0200  From: Dirk Munk <munk@home.nl> Subject: Re: USB on OpenVMSe& Message-ID: <3CD50C00.4090403@home.nl>   statzerj@bellsouth.net wrote:-G > Are there drivers available to support USB devices under OpenVMS?  My-G > initial web seach was not promising, but I have a USB DSL modem and IVD > have seen it possible to set up Linux to run this modem, but wouldH > like to experiment with VMS as well if my Multia or Alphastation could > handle it. > 	 > Thanks,t >  >     I I have asked similar questions before about the use of USB. According to SF Hoff Hoffman there was some work done on enabling USB support on VMS, F however only on built-in USB adapters, not on extra USB cards. At the G time he replied that the quality of the USB chipsets wasn't very good, e/ so lots of trouble designing a reliable driver.k  G Now even if we have a driver for enabling the interface, we will still  K need drivers for network over USB, or printers over USB or ..... and so on.a  F But I would like to see that. We can be sure that parallel interfaces H and serial interfaces will be replaced by USB in most cases. Connecting 3 a low cost printer to a USB port would be nice ....d   Regards,   Dirk   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 05 May 2002 07:52:34 -0400a1 From: Michael Austin <maustin@firstdbasource.com>  Subject: Re: USB on OpenVMSm2 Message-ID: <3CD51D02.2A2481B1@firstdbasource.com>   Dirk Munk wrote: >  > statzerj@bellsouth.net wrote:CI > > Are there drivers available to support USB devices under OpenVMS?  MyLI > > initial web seach was not promising, but I have a USB DSL modem and IlF > > have seen it possible to set up Linux to run this modem, but wouldJ > > like to experiment with VMS as well if my Multia or Alphastation could > > handle it. > >H > > Thanks,E > >L > >1 > J > I have asked similar questions before about the use of USB. According toG > Hoff Hoffman there was some work done on enabling USB support on VMS,iG > however only on built-in USB adapters, not on extra USB cards. At theGH > time he replied that the quality of the USB chipsets wasn't very good,1 > so lots of trouble designing a reliable driver.  > H > Now even if we have a driver for enabling the interface, we will stillM > need drivers for network over USB, or printers over USB or ..... and so on.  > G > But I would like to see that. We can be sure that parallel interfacesSI > and serial interfaces will be replaced by USB in most cases. Connectingu5 > a low cost printer to a USB port would be nice ....  > 
 > Regards, >  > Dirk  B Having been helping out in an ADSL Support group the #1 problem isD trying to get USB DSL modems to work reliably i.e. a LOT of constantD disconnects.  I think it will be a VERRY long time before USB is anyA good for anything other than printers and scanners -- and that ishB debatable.  Ethernet is still the better way to go - and is usallyE included in all hardware configs.  Even if you did have a USB Networki@ device, in the data center you would need to convert from USB toF ethernet any way. So why bother?  More opportunity for troubleshooting :)   --   Regards,  7 Michael Austin            Registered Linux User #261163a7 First DBA Source, Inc.    http://www.firstdbasource.com- Sr. Consultant 704-947-1089 (Office)- 704-236-4377 (Mobile)    ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 05 May 2002 20:18:11 GMTC From: statzerj@bellsouth.net Subject: Re: USB on OpenVMSD5 Message-ID: <3cd58d71.1112827@news.atl.bellsouth.net>-  F Thank you Michael for both responses.  They have been very helpful.  IF agree about Ethernet being a preference to USB, but it might not be anE option for my DSL provider and me right now.  I was not aware of that1B option for the router that utilizes a USB DSL modem.  Might do theF firewall activity via that and an old Pentium box with Linux or NT and, then VMS/Linux the Alphas behind all that.    E Just had to check as I like the VMS security set-up and fiddling witht( the Alphas - even as a bit of a novice.   @ FWIW - my USB modem has been a bit flaky at times, but mostly isB reliable under my current one computer/one connection mdoel.  Only> when looking to network the others has it become problematic. 1 Anyhow, you have given me a direction to pursue. o   Thank you,    b2 On Sun, 05 May 2002 07:52:34 -0400, Michael Austin# <maustin@firstdbasource.com> wrote:n   >Dirk Munk wrote:  >>    >> statzerj@bellsouth.net wrote:J >> > Are there drivers available to support USB devices under OpenVMS?  MyJ >> > initial web seach was not promising, but I have a USB DSL modem and IG >> > have seen it possible to set up Linux to run this modem, but would K >> > like to experiment with VMS as well if my Multia or Alphastation couldy >> > handle it.  >> > >> > Thanks, >> > >> > >>  K >> I have asked similar questions before about the use of USB. According to H >> Hoff Hoffman there was some work done on enabling USB support on VMS,H >> however only on built-in USB adapters, not on extra USB cards. At theI >> time he replied that the quality of the USB chipsets wasn't very good,h2 >> so lots of trouble designing a reliable driver. >>  I >> Now even if we have a driver for enabling the interface, we will stilldN >> need drivers for network over USB, or printers over USB or ..... and so on. >> .H >> But I would like to see that. We can be sure that parallel interfacesJ >> and serial interfaces will be replaced by USB in most cases. Connecting6 >> a low cost printer to a USB port would be nice .... >> t >> Regards,  >> e >> Dirke > C >Having been helping out in an ADSL Support group the #1 problem iscE >trying to get USB DSL modems to work reliably i.e. a LOT of constant E >disconnects.  I think it will be a VERRY long time before USB is anymB >good for anything other than printers and scanners -- and that isC >debatable.  Ethernet is still the better way to go - and is usallyMF >included in all hardware configs.  Even if you did have a USB NetworkA >device, in the data center you would need to convert from USB toIG >ethernet any way. So why bother?  More opportunity for troubleshooting5 >:)4 >0 >-- 	 >Regards,o >n8 >Michael Austin            Registered Linux User #2611638 >First DBA Source, Inc.    http://www.firstdbasource.com >Sr. Consultantr >704-947-1089 (Office) >704-236-4377 (Mobile) >o   ------------------------------   Date: 5 May 2002 05:07:53 -07000( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)1 Subject: Re: VMS Bigots Unite To Form New Company = Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0205050407.3a794231@posting.google.com>e  a JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message news:<3CD48181.AEFE2177@videotron.ca>...= > Paul Repacholi wrote:=F > > Let me give you a slight clue; bussinesses don't give a shit aboutG > > 'standard' they want 'work. They have 'standard' and have found out5I > > about the quality and reliability that you get from Redmond, and felt3 > > it in the hip pocket!= >  > I woud rephrase that as: > P > Businesses have come to realise that using "standard" (aka: Microsoft)  is notL > the great cost saver that they all thought it would when you factor in theU > increased support and decreased employee productivity, and now, the virus problems.e > N > Presenting a robust solution that is in the same ballpark price as MicrosoftB > would stand much greater chances now than it would in the 1990s. > P > The love virus was a big hit on corporations, but they may have figured it wasJ > a once in a lifetime issue. But they keep coming and coming and now that[ > corporations are realising this, they are no longer so comfortable with wintel solutions.   B and you think unix/linux is any better ... if so, I have a million< cert advisories to email to you ... sorry, vms stands alone!   ------------------------------   Date: 5 May 2002 10:20:46 -0700f/ From: chinachowchow@mailcity.com (Rick Nickles)y1 Subject: Re: VMS Bigots Unite To Form New Companya= Message-ID: <ac4e3b24.0205050920.33a18065@posting.google.com>   C I saw the posts about this great new marketing effort of Compaq to oC small businesses - I've seen it too.  Well, a few years ago DigitaldE decided that since they were really struggling, that they would focustD more of their effort on their largest customers.  They called it theI 80-20 plan.  Something like that.  Most of Compaq still thinks this way. :C I've litterally been told by folks that we weren't worth their time D because we don't do enough business with them.  Well, you can marketG all you want to small businesses, but when they get that when they call6 Compaq on the phone, no wonder.   1 It's going to take a lot to turn things around.  t  H Ok, what I want to see is all kinds of positive write ups and ads in allI the trade rags and all the major publications about VMS.  I want to open  K up Info World or Information Week and see full page ads, and great articlesbG about VMS.  Yea, we've seen a few - but we need to see LOTS of them out  there. d  G I don't know about anybody else, but I've spent most of my life workinga with VMS.  It's a big deal.w   ------------------------------   Date: 5 May 2002 17:47:22 -0000A= From: Doc.Cypher <Use-Author-Supplied-Address-Header@[127.1]>c1 Subject: Re: VMS Bigots Unite To Form New Companyt6 Message-ID: <20020505174722.19999.qmail@gacracker.org>  ? On 5 May 2002, chinachowchow@mailcity.com (Rick Nickles) wrote: D >I saw the posts about this great new marketing effort of Compaq to % >small businesses - I've seen it too.p  % S'cuse me, what new marketing effort?:  J Apart from the personal visits to large customers to try and convince themI all is well, the only marketing going on seems to be that of people here.oH Either doing things like providing free access to increase knowledge andI exposure, or gratuitously crossposting to other newsgroups to remind theme
 VMS lives.  E Oh, don't get me wrong, I welcome things like the change to integratehK various publications and give VMS exposure outside its existing market, buts this is only Compaq customers.   >Well, a few years ago DigitalF >decided that since they were really struggling, that they would focusE >more of their effort on their largest customers.  They called it thevJ >80-20 plan.  Something like that.  Most of Compaq still thinks this way.   C From some of the comments by Compaq staff who post here, it isn't amJ universal attitude (fortunately!). However, it probably is the attitude of& those in control of the purse strings.  D >I've litterally been told by folks that we weren't worth their timeE >because we don't do enough business with them.  Well, you can marketeH >all you want to small businesses, but when they get that when they call  >Compaq on the phone, no wonder.  H I can't blame anyone that decides they will plan a migration away from aJ company that has such an attitude, but I disagree with some who think that- promoting such moves will wake up management..  2 >It's going to take a lot to turn things around.    % That is verging on an understatement.   I >Ok, what I want to see is all kinds of positive write ups and ads in allrJ >the trade rags and all the major publications about VMS.  I want to open L >up Info World or Information Week and see full page ads, and great articlesH >about VMS.  Yea, we've seen a few - but we need to see LOTS of them out >there.   I From posts here it seems that companies like IBM don't just target peoplerK in the IT department. They target their bosses, and their bosses bosses. ItnH works. Corporate policy doesn't get decided in the IT department, you'veG got to make the boardroom aware of VMS. That means hitting publications5D such as the WSJ. Promote cluster uptimes, lack of security breaches,K immunity to virii. The average board member isn't an IT guru, but they knowoI that when their computers are offline they're losing money. Make it clearw, to them that it doesn't have to be that way.  H >I don't know about anybody else, but I've spent most of my life working >with VMS.  It's a big deal.  I Indeed it is. There are a lot of "details" that need attended to, but thet= big issue is exposure. VMS simply isn't getting enough of it.l     Doc. -- e6 The bigger the humbug, the better people will like it.K ~ Phineas Taylor Barnum.                             https://vmsbox.cjb.net    ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 05 May 2002 14:25:19 GMTh- From: "John E. Malmberg" <wb8tyw@qsl.network>07 Subject: x86 limitations? - was Re: Revisionist historyz* Message-ID: <3CD55C29.7000908@qsl.network>   JF Mezei wrote:g  > "John E. Malmberg" wrote:  >E  >> Since the 80386 and later all offer 4 protection modes, one wouldP0  >> assume that the 64 bit extensions would also  >D  > I had been given the impression during the many discussions about@  > porting VMS to the 8086 that that architecture lacked certainF  > features and that would make the port difficult. Is there any truth  > to this ?  E I do not remember many of the discussions, and I am not familiar with E all the things that OpenVMS requires from a processor or motherboard.c  E So I really can not answer that question.  The main reasons that has hI been given by people posting has been that the x86 architecture only has SE 2 modes (false), or it did not have enough interrupt vectors (false).u    H The original PC motherboard design is what was limited in the number of H interrupts and the number was later extended by a small amount with the  80286.  G The older x86 programs that bypassed the operating system also assumed oG that the interrupt limitation was present, so removing that limitation  8 in the motherboards would cause those programs to break.  G I am not up to date on what methods that the newer x86 PC motherboards nI use so that they can present the interrupt limitation for when older DOS -H operating systems are booted.  The 80386 had a change introduced at the C request of IBM to allow it to simulate the 8086 limitations.  That s( change is only active in protected mode.  I Windows NT/2000 is not subject to this motherboard interrupt limitation, SC provided that the BOOT rom knows how to get the boot device loaded.b  C I am not aware of what LINUX and the other x86 UNIX like operating h systems do in this regard.  A To go into more detail about this, you would need to be directly tJ familiar with the 80x86 technical details from before the 80386 and later.  G I have seen that devices that appear to work perfectly well on Windows oC and UNIX like OS's will not work with OpenVMS with data corruption   resulting from this use.  E I have also seen devices that appear to work perfectly well with the aG older Windows and the x86 UNIX like OS's fail when used on Windows NT. hH In almost all of these cases it has turned out to be a hardware problem * in the device, not a defect in Windows NT.  I This has all been rehashed on this forum before, and probably will again.t   -Johng wb8tyw@qsl.network Personal Opinion Only-   ------------------------------   Date: 5 May 2002 08:45:12 -0000e4 From: Doc.Cypher <Use-Author-Address-Header@[127.1]>6 Subject: Re: [OT] Re: UK folks this might interest you5 Message-ID: <20020505084512.4623.qmail@gacracker.org>s  = On 05 May 2002, Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com> wrote: @ >Doc.Cypher <Use-Author-Supplied-Address-Header@[127.1]> writes: > B >> That must be pretty standard practice in chocolate factories. IG >> spent 6 weeks working in a Belgian one last year and the smell alonei/ >> pretty much put me off chocolate for weeks. t >iG >Where about's? I used to get free chocklate from the one in St Niklaasl3 >when they cleared them out at the end of the day. -  ( You've been to GuyLian as well then? :-)     Doc. -- m6 The bigger the humbug, the better people will like it.K ~ Phineas Taylor Barnum.                             https://vmsbox.cjb.net.   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2002.248 ************************