1 INFO-VAX	Tue, 07 May 2002	Volume 2002 : Issue 251       Contents: Re: (remaining) GBLPAGFIL : 1.1 mill new jobs in the IT industry in US next 12 months.> Re: 1.1 mill new jobs in the IT industry in US next 12 months.> Re: 1.1 mill new jobs in the IT industry in US next 12 months. 1224 Mhz Alpha in Aug.0 3rd party support for Alpha hardwad and software4 Re: 3rd party support for Alpha hardwad and software( Re: ASTs and privs. Was: $QIO and SYSPRV( Re: ASTs and privs. Was: $QIO and SYSPRV3 Re: Capellas: Linux, Windows Will 'Eviscerate' Unix 3 Re: Capellas: Linux, Windows Will 'Eviscerate' Unix 3 Re: Capellas: Linux, Windows Will 'Eviscerate' Unix 3 Re: Capellas: Linux, Windows Will 'Eviscerate' Unix 3 Re: Capellas: Linux, Windows Will 'Eviscerate' Unix 3 Re: Capellas: Linux, Windows Will 'Eviscerate' Unix  CSWS / CSWB / MX Speculation  RE: CSWS / CSWB / MX Speculation  Re: CSWS / CSWB / MX Speculation  Re: CSWS / CSWB / MX Speculation Re: Deathbed confession?* Re: Detecting NOBACKUP attribute of a file- Re: EDT or EVE (and a fine DCL hack, also...) - Re: EDT or EVE (and a fine DCL hack, also...) - Re: EDT or EVE (and a fine DCL hack, also...) ' Re: ES-40 x Oracle RDB *** PROBLEMS ***   Re: Fix for EDT emulation in EVE  Re: Fix for EDT emulation in EVE  Re: Fix for EDT emulation in EVE  Re: Fix for EDT emulation in EVE  Re: Fix for EDT emulation in EVE FTP to IBM AIX Re: FTP to IBM AIX Re: FTP to IBM AIX Re: FTP to IBM AIXE Re: How to rotate Apache/CSWS log files under VMS, without a restart? 8 Re: MacOS/X is the leading Unix (was "Itanium Troubles")8 Re: MacOS/X is the leading Unix (was "Itanium Troubles")8 Re: MacOS/X is the leading Unix (was "Itanium Troubles")8 Re: MacOS/X is the leading Unix (was "Itanium Troubles") Re: New to VAX Re: New to VAX Re: New to VAX Re: New to VAX0 NOT VIAGRA___Healing Herbs  All HERBAL remedies! Re: OpenVMS Certification  Re: OpenVMS Certification  Re: OpenVMS Certification  Re: OpenVMS Certification  Re: OpenVMS Certification  PointSecure has a new site. $ Questions on the new structire at HP Remioving AS1000A front panel  Re: Revisionist history  Re: Revisionist history  Re: Revisionist history  Re: Revisionist history  Re: Revisionist history  Re: Revisionist history  RE: Revisionist history  Re: Revisionist history  Re: Revisionist history  Re: Revisionist history  Re: Revisionist history  Re: Revisionist history  Re: Revisionist history  Re: Revisionist history  Re: Revisionist history ! Re: Sayonara DS10, new org charts ! Re: Sayonara DS10, new org charts ! Re: Sayonara DS10, new org charts ! Re: Sayonara DS10, new org charts ! Re: Sayonara DS10, new org charts ! Re: Sayonara DS10, new org charts ! Re: Sayonara DS10, new org charts ! Re: Sayonara DS10, new org charts ! Re: Sayonara DS10, new org charts ! Re: Sayonara DS10, new org charts ' Re: SKC Morphs Again... We're Now SKHPC ' Re: SKC Morphs Again... We're Now SKHPC ' Re: SKC Morphs Again... We're Now SKHPC ' Re: SKC Morphs Again... We're Now SKHPC % Slowaris cert advisory #????? Andrew?  RE: SMTP Usage Filter... RE: SMTP Usage Filter... Re: SMTP Usage Filter... Re: SMTP Usage Filter... RE: SMTP Usage Filter... Supported scsi  controllers  Re: Supported scsi  controllers  Re: USB on OpenVMS Re: USB on OpenVMS Re: USB on OpenVMS Re: USB on OpenVMS Re: USB on OpenVMS< Using LD from OpenVMS 7.2-1 Installation CD, Can it be done?@ RE: Using LD from OpenVMS 7.2-1 Installation CD, Can it be done?@ Re: Using LD from OpenVMS 7.2-1 Installation CD, Can it be done?@ Re: Using LD from OpenVMS 7.2-1 Installation CD, Can it be done?@ Re: Using LD from OpenVMS 7.2-1 Installation CD, Can it be done?( Re: VMS Bigots Unite To Form New Company( Re: VMS Bigots Unite To Form New Company RE: VMS SCAN product RE: VMS SCAN product
 Re: VMSTAR
 Re: VMSTAR8 Re: Was OpenVMS V7.3 ever released for the VAX platform?8 RE: Was OpenVMS V7.3 ever released for the VAX platform?8 RE: Was OpenVMS V7.3 ever released for the VAX platform?8 RE: Was OpenVMS V7.3 ever released for the VAX platform?2 Re: Which newsservers (if any) run under tcpip5.1?2 Why is security so important in a VMS environment?6 Re: Why is security so important in a VMS environment?' Re: WIS??? Did it die with the HP deal? ' Re: WIS??? Did it die with the HP deal? ' Re: WIS??? Did it die with the HP deal? ' Re: WIS??? Did it die with the HP deal? ' Re: WIS??? Did it die with the HP deal?  Re: X-Win32  Re: X-Win32 / RE: ZIPped .PCSI container arrives OK on VMS??? / RE: ZIPped .PCSI container arrives OK on VMS??? / RE: ZIPped .PCSI container arrives OK on VMS??? / RE: ZIPped .PCSI container arrives OK on VMS???  Re: ZTDRIVER.EXE  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------   Date: 6 May 2002 17:11:47 -0700 " From: cstranslations@msn.com (Joe)" Subject: Re: (remaining) GBLPAGFIL< Message-ID: <d56d1c2d.0205061611.db01ae1@posting.google.com>  k "Mark D. Jilson" <jilly@clarityconnect.com> wrote in message news:<3CD6A69D.7BFB274D@clarityconnect.com>...   C Well to uh, make a long story short, I'm setting up a collection of C processes that will share information via a global section(s). When D (if) the process that creates and writes data (to be processed) intoC the section(s) can't create a section I would like to write as much D (current) "state" information as possible concerning what went wrong6 for as many senarios as possible into the process log.  F As far as I'm concerned; when it comes down to it, jumping into kernelD mode (not necessary in this case) to retreive the contents of a cellD is no biggie(we're not say - attempting a device driver as it were).@ For the rest of the staff who are somewhere between "deer in theD headlights", "what's a global section", wouldn't know to go into SDAD and examine MMG$GL_GBLPAGFIL, get a final exit code using ACCOUNTING= (among other things) in order to diagnose what went wrong...  E ...introducing inner access mode code is something best avoided if at 
 all possible.    Thanks Joe    > Joe,J > 	GBLPAGFILE is the quota that says how many GBLPAGES can have the systemB > paging files as their backing store.  GBLPAGFIL does NOT reserveJ > anything in the page files.  It is only a gate at the time that a global > page gets created. > B > Yes MMG$GL_GBLPAGFIL is still the cell that contains how much isI > available and from DCL the only way to access it is to parse SDA output F > or to 'know' what the SVA is of the data cell and to use the EXAMINE
 > command. >  > SDA> EVAL MMG$GL_GBLPAGFILJ > Hex = FFFFFFFF.83806328   Decimal = -2088738008         MMG$GL_GBLPAGFIL > SDA> EXAM MMG$GL_GBLPAGFIL3 > MMG$GL_GBLPAGFIL:  00000000.002DC467   "g-....."  > $ GBLPAGCNT = %x83806328 > $ EXAM/LONG GBLPAGCNT  > 83806328:  002DC467  > H > Enhancement requests have been logged to allow F$GETSYI to return thisH > item thus it may show up in some future version.  If you would like toC > add your request to the pile then call your local CSC and log it.  >  > Joe wrote: > >  > > OpenVMS 7.1-1H2  > > I > > If I'm not mistaken GBLPAGFIL is the SYSGEN parameter determining how C > > much of the pagefile is ultimately available for use in section & > > backing - ie $CRMPSC/SEC$M_PAGFIL. > > J > > Is MMG$GL_GBLPAGFIL the correct place to look to determine how much ofF > > this is currently available? If so - is there a "supported" way to. > > collect this bit of information other than > >  > > $ analyze/system > > SDA> read/exec > > .  > > .  > > . ! > > SDA> examine mmg$gl_gblpagfil  > >  > > TIA  > > joe    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 06 May 2002 20:55:43 +0200 9 From: Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com> C Subject: 1.1 mill new jobs in the IT industry in US next 12 months. ' Message-ID: <3CD6D1AF.838A327F@aaa.com>   A From the "Information Technology Association of America (ITAA)" :   A http://www.itaa.org/news/pr/PressRelease.cfm?ReleaseID=1020695700   + Hm, how many of those will be VMS related ?    Jan-Erik Sderholm.    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 07 May 2002 01:47:00 GMT 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> G Subject: Re: 1.1 mill new jobs in the IT industry in US next 12 months. ' Message-ID: <3CD73520.96D32A51@fsi.net>    Jan-Erik Sderholm wrote:  > C > From the "Information Technology Association of America (ITAA)" :  > C > http://www.itaa.org/news/pr/PressRelease.cfm?ReleaseID=1020695700  > - > Hm, how many of those will be VMS related ?   : At or near zero. A truly miniscule percentage, to be sure.   --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 07 May 2002 03:13:15 GMT 1 From: LESLIE@JRLVAX.HOUSTON.RR.COM (Jerry Leslie) G Subject: Re: 1.1 mill new jobs in the IT industry in US next 12 months. ; Message-ID: <fDHB8.55590$Q42.3075148@typhoon.austin.rr.com>   : Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= (aaa@aaa.com) wrote:C : From the "Information Technology Association of America (ITAA)" :  : C : http://www.itaa.org/news/pr/PressRelease.cfm?ReleaseID=1020695700  : - : Hm, how many of those will be VMS related ?  :  : Jan-Erik Sderholm.    None.   ; The Information Technology Association of America (ITAA) is < just building its case to keep the H-1B visa cap at 195,000.  = The ITAA is a front organization for the H-1B visa program in < the U.S. They even opose exclusion of H-1B visa holders from sensitive defense projects:   /    http://www.newsbytes.com/news/02/175304.html <    Defense Dept. Foreign Workers Policy Irks High-Tech GroupI                                                                           ;   "A coalition of high-tech companies is urging the Defense I    Department to reconsider its proposal to bar non-citizens from working E    on sensitive - but unclassified - information technology projects.      B    The Information Technology Association of America called on theF    Defense Department to hold a "full, public review and discussion ofD    the benefits and costs of such an action" before implementing the
    policy.I                                                                           E    "America's defense readiness depends on having ready access to the F    best available technology and technical skill sets," ITAA PresidentG    Harris Miller wrote in a letter to Defense Department Undersecretary =    for Acquisition, Technology and Logistics Edward Aldridge.      H    Foreign nationals have long been barred from working on classified ITB    projects within the federal government. Yet, earlier this monthF    Pentagon officials said they planned to extend that ban to projects.    considered "sensitive," but not classified.     A    "Precipitous action here could make it much more difficult and B    expensive for the military services to acquire the requisite IT    services," Miller said.     H    Pentagon officials have said the policy was proposed in response to aI    trend toward greater outsourcing within the IT industry that brings in %    many subcontractors from overseas.      D    Miller also reminded DoD officials of President Bush's admonitionD    against xenophobic attitudes in the wake of the Sept. 11 attacks.     B    "Public policy must be based on real world actions and tangible9    threats - not supposition and innuendo," Miller said."     H --Jerry Leslie   leslie@clio.rice.edu  (my opinions are strictly my own)9   Note: leslie@jrlvax.houston.rr.com is invalid for email    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 06 May 2002 20:48:21 +0200 9 From: Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com>  Subject: 1224 Mhz Alpha in Aug. ' Message-ID: <3CD6CFF5.59C4F1F7@aaa.com>     In case anyone havn't seen it...  ' http://www.theinquirer.net/06050206.htm   
 Headline :    "1224MHz Alpha to arrive August    With 16MB of cache, wow "        Jan-Erik Sderholm.    ------------------------------   Date: 6 May 2002 12:17:44 -0700 " From: backusr@crtct.org (Randy B.)9 Subject: 3rd party support for Alpha hardwad and software = Message-ID: <983554d9.0205061117.798e0ce9@posting.google.com>   D Does anyone know of 3rd party alternatives to Compaq for support for8 support of Alpha hardware (4100) and software (openVMS)?   Thanks.    ------------------------------  * Date: Mon, 6 May 2002 20:56:59 +0000 (UTC), From: lewis@PROBE.mitre.org (Keith A. Lewis)= Subject: Re: 3rd party support for Alpha hardwad and software . Message-ID: <ab6qmr$8da$1@newslocal.mitre.org>   backusr@crtct.org (Randy B.) writes in article <983554d9.0205061117.798e0ce9@posting.google.com> dated 6 May 2002 12:17:44 -0700: E >Does anyone know of 3rd party alternatives to Compaq for support for 9 >support of Alpha hardware (4100) and software (openVMS)?   I Hardware:  I know Digital/HPQ supports Sun computers; I think the reverse H might also be true.  There are smaller firms too (sorry I don't have any4 specific contact info on them).  Check with IBM too.  K Software:  OpenVMS is a proprietary OS owned by HPQ.  Software support from G any other vendor would not be true support, just consulting.  IMHO, You 0 might as well use this newsgroup, which is free.  + --Keith Lewis              klewis$mitre.org > The above may not (yet) represent the opinions of my employer.   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 06 May 2002 21:34:39 GMT 2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)1 Subject: Re: ASTs and privs. Was: $QIO and SYSPRV 9 Message-ID: <PFCB8.48$lj5.938005@cacnews.cac.cpqcorp.net>   _ In article <876625yhih.fsf_-_@prep.synonet.com>, Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com> writes: 0 :JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> writes: : D :> would work fine. The only hitch is that your AST may execute withG :> SYSPRV or without SYSPRV depending on if it executes before or after  :> the disabling of the sysprv.  : D :Does this mean AST code could run at elevated privelege if it fires :at the 'right time'?   G   Asynchronous System Trap operations can and do operate asynchronously B   to the mainline code execution, and -- if you choose to queue anF   operation which will subsequently deliver the AST, and if the event H   should occurs and the AST is triggered -- the AST routine can execute C   before the mainline code gets around to calling the $SETPRV call.   E   I will once again reference subsystem identifiers -- privileges are C   more powerful, and a loss of control can be far more problematic. G   Further, there is no way to have trusted and untrusted code operating E   within the same process, unless the trusted code can protect itself C   using the memory management security mechanisms; using privileged    processor modes.  F   You really need to have an understanding of re-entrant programming, E   memory barriers, shared memory, and (if applicable) mixing threads  G   and ASTS -- before you tangle with ASTs and privileges.  The Ask The  H   Wizard topic (1661) has an introduction, and pointers to other topics.    :No, I don't mean elevated mode.  C   ASTs requested by inner-mode code can and often are delivered in  2   similarly-privileged processor modes, of course.  N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------N       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.com    N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 06 May 2002 22:04:20 GMT 2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)1 Subject: Re: ASTs and privs. Was: $QIO and SYSPRV 9 Message-ID: <E5DB8.51$lj5.938005@cacnews.cac.cpqcorp.net>   m In article <9059bf6b.0205030657.47637c96@posting.google.com>, jodonnell@hrblock.com (Jason O'Donnell) writes: e :Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com> wrote in message news:<876625yhih.fsf_-_@prep.synonet.com>... 2 :> JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> writes: :>  F :> > would work fine. The only hitch is that your AST may execute withI :> > SYSPRV or without SYSPRV depending on if it executes before or after ! :> > the disabling of the sysprv.  :>  F :> Does this mean AST code could run at elevated privelege if it fires7 :> at the 'right time'? No, I don't mean elevated mode.u :5 :The way I understand things:i : E :An AST is part of a process.  A process has a header block where you G :can find things such privileges and rights lists.  When it runs, if itiG :performs an action that needs to check the rights/privileges, whateveruE :is in the header will determine whether it can perform that action. pC :Depending on how the AST is queued and what it is waiting for, you 6 :cannot control when it will "pop" except with SETAST.  I   This was true prior to per-thread security; before OpenVMS Alpha V7.2. WE   With per-thread security, threads have a security context -- and asUF   ASTs can be delivered to threads, things can really get interesting.  E :However, my grandma taught me that ASTs should be small and not do alD :whole lot.  I primarily use them to set event flags, drop a message? :pointer onto a stack/queue, and/or increment a counter or two.   C   I avoid event flags, but that's enougher discussion -- yes, ASTs i$   should be designed small and fast.  E :So,in general, I do not concern myself much with privleges available B :to an AST.  If you are, maybe you are doing too much with an AST?  E   As I have been repeatedly (harping?) commenting on, privileges are mF   likely not needed here given that subsystem identifiers are a betterE   and more targeted solution.  And as I have commented before in thisoE   thread, having both "trusted" and "untrusted" code within the same cE   process context is exceedingly difficult.  That said, your commentsa   here are spot on....  N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------N       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.com    N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 06 May 2002 21:09:39 -0000 & From: cmadams@hiwaay.net (Chris Adams)< Subject: Re: Capellas: Linux, Windows Will 'Eviscerate' Unix/ Message-ID: <udds8jkpull90f@corp.supernews.com>i  3 Once upon a time,  <david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk> said:nM >However even here you might get into bother if you made changes to the LinuxsP >kernel without getting it approved by Linus Torvalds and his closest associatesC >and persisted in selling it (or freely distributed it) as Linux.  i  F That's is exactly what Red Hat, SuSE, Mandrake, Caldera, etc. do: makeF modifications to the kernel (and other stuff) and sell it, without anyF approval by Linus or associates.  That is what the GNU GPL permits (as long as source is provided).  F The BSD license allows the same, without the restriction that you mustH provide your modified source.  Just about all those proprietary OSes you listed include some BSD code.a -- 1  Chris Adams <cmadams@hiwaay.net>< Systems and Network Administrator - HiWAAY Internet Services= I don't speak for anybody but myself - that's enough trouble.s   ------------------------------   Date: 6 May 2002 21:21:35 GMT & From: peter@abbnm.com (Peter da Silva)< Subject: Re: Capellas: Linux, Windows Will 'Eviscerate' Unix, Message-ID: <ab6s4v$vk@web.eng.baileynm.com>  N In article <ab5qnd$qr7$1@aquila.mdx.ac.uk>,  <david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk> wrote:N > However even here you might get into bother if you made changes to the LinuxQ > kernel without getting it approved by Linus Torvalds and his closest associateslD > and persisted in selling it (or freely distributed it) as Linux.    = You could, however, sell it as "Lunix" or "Davix" no problem.i   -- CO I've seen things you people can't imagine. Chimneysweeps on fire over the roofs O of London. I've watched kite-strings glitter in the sun at Hyde Park Gate.  AllyL these things will be lost in time, like chalk-paintings in the rain.   `-_-'K Time for your nap.  | Peter da Silva | Har du kramat din varg, idag?    'U`e   ------------------------------   Date: 6 May 2002 21:25:19 GMTr& From: peter@abbnm.com (Peter da Silva)< Subject: Re: Capellas: Linux, Windows Will 'Eviscerate' Unix- Message-ID: <ab6sbv$170@web.eng.baileynm.com>i  3 In article <myakn8kA$vQW@eisner.encompasserve.org>,i. Bob Koehler <koehler@encompasserve.org> wrote:G >    Since when?  I've never seen a UNIX that didn't have some vendor'sIJ >    proprietary stamp on it, was limitted to thier hardware, and required) >    the use of thier system admin tools.   J I guess you've never seen Xenix, SCO UNIX, Solaris, ESIX, Unixware, or anyJ other commercial UNIX that runs on commodity PCs. Some of these are fairlyJ dependent on custom admin suites, yes, but most are quite happy to let youB manage them with generic plain text file and common command lines.   -- -O I've seen things you people can't imagine. Chimneysweeps on fire over the roofsoO of London. I've watched kite-strings glitter in the sun at Hyde Park Gate.  AllpL these things will be lost in time, like chalk-paintings in the rain.   `-_-'K Time for your nap.  | Peter da Silva | Har du kramat din varg, idag?    'U`n   ------------------------------  * Date: Mon, 6 May 2002 22:29:50 +0000 (UTC) From: david20@alpha1.mdx.ac.uk< Subject: Re: Capellas: Linux, Windows Will 'Eviscerate' Unix+ Message-ID: <ab704u$92n$2@aquila.mdx.ac.uk>e  X In article <udds8jkpull90f@corp.supernews.com>, cmadams@hiwaay.net (Chris Adams) writes:4 >Once upon a time,  <david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk> said:N >>However even here you might get into bother if you made changes to the LinuxQ >>kernel without getting it approved by Linus Torvalds and his closest associatessD >>and persisted in selling it (or freely distributed it) as Linux.   >hG >That's is exactly what Red Hat, SuSE, Mandrake, Caldera, etc. do: make"G >modifications to the kernel (and other stuff) and sell it, without anyLG >approval by Linus or associates.  That is what the GNU GPL permits (asi >long as source is provided).r >.G >The BSD license allows the same, without the restriction that you mustaI >provide your modified source.  Just about all those proprietary OSes youa >listed include some BSD code. >--     F Are you sure I thought Redhat , Suse etc added their own installationsL routines, public domain applications etc but I thought the Kernel was prettyM strictly controlled. Linus doesn't want Linux to split into umpteem thousandsh of incompatible Linux variants.D  
 David Webb VMS and Unix team leader CCSS Middlesex University   ------------------------------  * Date: Mon, 6 May 2002 22:37:28 +0000 (UTC) From: david20@alpha1.mdx.ac.uk< Subject: Re: Capellas: Linux, Windows Will 'Eviscerate' Unix+ Message-ID: <ab70j8$9g6$1@aquila.mdx.ac.uk>G  U In article <ab6s4v$vk@web.eng.baileynm.com>, peter@abbnm.com (Peter da Silva) writes:PO >In article <ab5qnd$qr7$1@aquila.mdx.ac.uk>,  <david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk> wrote:lO >> However even here you might get into bother if you made changes to the LinuxfR >> kernel without getting it approved by Linus Torvalds and his closest associatesE >> and persisted in selling it (or freely distributed it) as Linux.  t >s> >You could, however, sell it as "Lunix" or "Davix" no problem. >o >--   N Probably be OK with "Davix". "Lunix" I'm not so sure about sounds rather like  "Lindows" versus "Windows".G  
 David Webb VMS and Unix team leader CCSS Middlesex University h   ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 7 May 2002 00:40:37 +02001 From: Michael Heiming <michael+USENET@heiming.de> < Subject: Re: Capellas: Linux, Windows Will 'Eviscerate' Unix- Message-ID: <5p07ba.ju5.ln@charon.heiming.de>   ; david20@alpha1.mdx.ac.uk (<ab704u$92n$2@aquila.mdx.ac.uk>):a  D > In article <udds8jkpull90f@corp.supernews.com>, cmadams@hiwaay.net > (Chris Adams) writes:m5 >>Once upon a time,  <david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk> said: B >>>However even here you might get into bother if you made changesD >>>to the Linux kernel without getting it approved by Linus TorvaldsD >>>and his closest associates and persisted in selling it (or freely >>>distributed it) as Linux. >>C >>That's is exactly what Red Hat, SuSE, Mandrake, Caldera, etc. do:2A >>make modifications to the kernel (and other stuff) and sell it, 
 >>without any1D >>approval by Linus or associates.  That is what the GNU GPL permits" >>(as long as source is provided). >>C >>The BSD license allows the same, without the restriction that youn >>mustA >>provide your modified source.  Just about all those proprietaryR( >>OSes you listed include some BSD code. >>-- >  > : > Are you sure I thought Redhat , Suse etc added their own> > installations routines, public domain applications etc but IB > thought the Kernel was pretty strictly controlled. Linus doesn'tB > want Linux to split into umpteem thousands of incompatible Linux > variants.,  ? Sometimes features like reiserfs, get first included in distro rC kernels and latter pop up in the sources from ftp.kernel.org. SuSE e? did this AFAIK. It might be only a litle problem, case you are iB using a distro kernel which supports one of your devices, but the A driver isn't in the main kernel and you want to upgrade for some A@ other reason. However if you got this far, it shouldn't be that  hard to figure out...;-)   Michael Heimingi --$ Remove the +SIGNS case mail bounces.   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 07 May 2002 01:26:29 GMTA1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>a% Subject: CSWS / CSWB / MX Speculation ' Message-ID: <3CD7304E.F48557F2@fsi.net>   D I couldn't help wondering if CSWS + CSWB + MX + Multinet (or TCPwareH (Hi, Bob!)) + OpenVMS would do as a rather secure, very reliable, highly, virus/worm resistant mail server platform...  = CSWB is really only there because so many things are going to H "web-based" for their GUI these days. What other purpose it would serve, I dunno.  F What, if anything, is missing from that mix (economic issues aside for the moment, at least)?   -- l David J. Dachterai dba DJE Systemsj http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/n   ------------------------------  $ Date: Mon, 6 May 2002 19:33:09 -0700# From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com>n) Subject: RE: CSWS / CSWB / MX Speculation 9 Message-ID: <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIAEMEEOAA.tom@kednos.com>m  ! Isn't kind of what MQSeries does?h     >-----Original Message-----s7 >From: David J. Dachtera [mailto:djesys.nospam@fsi.net]e# >Sent: Monday, May 06, 2002 6:26 PMe >To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com& >Subject: CSWS / CSWB / MX Speculation >o >aE >I couldn't help wondering if CSWS + CSWB + MX + Multinet (or TCPwareeI >(Hi, Bob!)) + OpenVMS would do as a rather secure, very reliable, highlyr- >virus/worm resistant mail server platform...i >l> >CSWB is really only there because so many things are going toI >"web-based" for their GUI these days. What other purpose it would serve, 	 >I dunno.h >rG >What, if anything, is missing from that mix (economic issues aside fore >the moment, at least)?  >l >--  >David J. Dachtera >dba DJE Systems >http://www.djesys.com/e >n) >Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page:s  >http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/ >r >---' >Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. ; >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).sA >Version: 6.0.351 / Virus Database: 197 - Release Date: 4/19/2002S >. ---t& Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.: Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).@ Version: 6.0.351 / Virus Database: 197 - Release Date: 4/19/2002   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 06 May 2002 22:20:28 -0500.C From: "Craig A. Berry" <craig.berry@nospam.SignalTreeSolutions.com>-) Subject: Re: CSWS / CSWB / MX Speculation H Message-ID: <craig.berry-1889C3.22202806052002@news.directvinternet.com>  ' In article <3CD7304E.F48557F2@fsi.net>,93  "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote:   F > I couldn't help wondering if CSWS + CSWB + MX + Multinet (or TCPwareJ > (Hi, Bob!)) + OpenVMS would do as a rather secure, very reliable, highly. > virus/worm resistant mail server platform... > ? > CSWB is really only there because so many things are going to3J > "web-based" for their GUI these days. What other purpose it would serve,
 > I dunno.  G I'm a little confused about why you include CSWB/Mozilla since it does oG have a mail/news client, but no mail *server* features that I know of. VD I take it you are really talking about a complete Internet platform : that does mail, news, and secure web serving and browsing.  C As far as I can tell, CSWB's composer features work on VMS, so one wH could do at least medium-level web content creation without knowing the F W3C specifications by heart.  emacs with the SGML/XML/HTML extensions D is probably better for serious work if the up-to-date emacs port is  ever completed.  C  H With chatzilla, those not on a DECnet network or unable or unwilling to E type phone/answer can do on-line chat.  Aside from keeping teenagers  F off the streets, this can be a seriously useful feature for help desk  situations, among others.n  H > What, if anything, is missing from that mix (economic issues aside for > the moment, at least)?  6      Possibly PMDF (you did say economic issues aside)  I      Sophos anti-virus (if some of the mail clients might be on peecees).s  *      Perhaps L-soft mailing list software.  C      Depending on one's IP stack, HGFTP might add missing features..  F      Java run-time on servers and/or clients (assuming more than just  sending and receiving mail).    %      Alan Winston's forthcoming book.n  F N.B.   These are all only "missing" in the sense of being unmentioned 1 on your list; they are all available for OpenVMS.r  F BTW, I'm not sure why you mention Process Software's IP stacks to the C exclusion of HPQ's TCP/IP services.  All are good products, though  2 Process still leads in some key features like SSH.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 06 May 2002 22:59:38 -0500dC From: "Craig A. Berry" <craig.berry@nospam.SignalTreeSolutions.com>l) Subject: Re: CSWS / CSWB / MX SpeculationtH Message-ID: <craig.berry-35E34E.22593806052002@news.directvinternet.com>  9 In article <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIAEMEEOAA.tom@kednos.com>,h%  "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> wrote:l  # > Isn't kind of what MQSeries does?h  A My understanding is that MQSeries is a general-purpose web-based  F application server (another example would be WebObjects, which, alas, H doesn't run on VMS), and while you *could* implement a mail server with F it, you're really confusing categories to say it's the same thing.  I E hate to say it, but Microsoft Outlook Web Access is a very well done  ? implementation of a fully functional mail client done as a web nH application.  There are of course other web-based mail clients, most of H which will work just fine with CSWB/mozilla.  I don't think any of this F is relevant to David's question; CSWB/mozilla does POP3 and IMAP4, so C an entirely http-based mail client isn't really that necessary for h day-in, day-out use.   > >-----Original Message-----69 > >From: David J. Dachtera [mailto:djesys.nospam@fsi.net]N% > >Sent: Monday, May 06, 2002 6:26 PMs > >To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com( > >Subject: CSWS / CSWB / MX Speculation > >r > >gG > >I couldn't help wondering if CSWS + CSWB + MX + Multinet (or TCPware<K > >(Hi, Bob!)) + OpenVMS would do as a rather secure, very reliable, highlyO/ > >virus/worm resistant mail server platform...-   ------------------------------  " Date: Mon, 6 May 2002 18:51:34 GMT- From: Terry C Shannon <shannon@world.std.com> ! Subject: Re: Deathbed confession?-D Message-ID: <Pine.SGI.4.30.0205061447500.19812-100000@world.std.com>  ( On Mon, 6 May 2002, Paul Winalski wrote:  6 > On Fri, 03 May 2002 18:38:30 GMT, "Terry C. Shannon"! > <terryshannon@attbi.com> wrote:c >s@ > >"Paul Winalski" <prune@ZAnkh-Morpork.mv.com> wrote in message6 > >news:3cd2cede.1810802095@proxy.news.easynews.com... > >t > >>H > >> But I do think your main thesis is correct--Alpha's demise occurredF > >> for business rather than technical reasons.  Compaq was unwillingG > >> and unable to build a volume market for Alpha that would have made G > >> the architecture a self-sustaining, profit-making proposition.  IteD > >> finally came to put up or shut up, and Compaq chose to shut up. > > L > >That about sums it up. Absent the NT dalliance, DEC didn't do a heck of a= > >lot in the sustainability and profitability realm, either.n >i@ > DEC never, in its entire life as a company, grokked marketing.    I But... but... they had 183 separate and distinct marketing organizations,f8 partners, consultants, and the like. ;-} (Sad but true).     >eE > In retrospect, it seems clear that "GQ Bob" Palmer's game plan fromhE > the beginning was to pare DEC down, sell it on the auction block togD > the highest bidder, then pull the ripcord on his golden parachute.F > Investing the $$$ necessary to pump-prime the market for Alpha would? > have made the balance sheet look messy, so it never happened.- >dE > The NT dalliance, IMO, was actually Microsoft playing DEC as a pawntF > against Intel:  "See?  We can go to DEC, or MIPS, or IBM/Motorola if< > we want to."  Had DEC developed enough of a volume market,D > especially at the low end, Microsoft might have stayed interested. >r    J DEC was the pawn, all right. Had DEC had the business sense to negotiate aE better Alliance for Enterprise Computing deal with u$oft, perhaps DECnF would have received client-side Intel apps parity on Alpha. That wouldG have made a hell of a big difference when it comes to creating a volumeg market.t    J Significantly, the deal was negotiated by an engineer/technologist, NOT by someone with business acumen.r   ------------------------------   Date: 6 May 02 20:01:55 +0200 ) From: p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture)w3 Subject: Re: Detecting NOBACKUP attribute of a filef) Message-ID: <KlnoUgu0T6$y@elias.decus.ch>a  c In article <793af3df.0205060847.7d72b882@posting.google.com>, tadamsmar@aol.com (Tom Adams) writes: = > How can you detect that a file is set to nobackup?  I wouldq? > like to do this to control a decision in a command procedure?-   $ set file/noback login.com = $ write sys$output f$file_attributes("login.com;","nobackup")c TRUE $ set file/back login.com-= $ write sys$output f$file_attributes("login.com;","NOBACKUP")i FALSEt   __
 Paul Sture Switzerlandp   ------------------------------  * Date: Mon, 6 May 2002 18:37:53 +0000 (UTC), From: lewis@PROBE.mitre.org (Keith A. Lewis)6 Subject: Re: EDT or EVE (and a fine DCL hack, also...). Message-ID: <ab6ii1$7uc$2@newslocal.mitre.org>  ~ "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> writes in article <3CD5D7E0.C6026DDF@fsi.net> dated Mon, 06 May 2002 00:57:09 GMT:B >Granted, it *CAN* be done. The issue is the effort involved to do4 >something as simple as a global search and replace. > + >EDT? Fairly simple. One line-mode command:p >v8 >S/string_to_find/strimg_to_replace_it_with/WHOLE/NOTYPE >( >TPU?g One Do-key command:d  7 global replace string_to_find string_to_replace_it_withi  : If you're writing a batch procedure, that translates into:  @ eve_global_replace("string_to_find","string_to_replace_it_with")  F Every EVE command calls a TPU procedure with the command name and eve_J prepended.  That way, the commands and procedure names both follow the VMS. tradition of approximating readable english.    + --Keith Lewis              klewis$mitre.org.> The above may not (yet) represent the opinions of my employer.   ------------------------------   Date: 6 May 2002 17:01:01 -0700n. From: SPAMSINK2001@YAHOO.COM (Alan E. Feldman)6 Subject: Re: EDT or EVE (and a fine DCL hack, also...)= Message-ID: <343f30ae.0205061601.6e24c537@posting.google.com>w  b lewis@PROBE.mitre.org (Keith A. Lewis) wrote in message news:<ab6ii1$7uc$2@newslocal.mitre.org>... > "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> writes in article <3CD5D7E0.C6026DDF@fsi.net> dated Mon, 06 May 2002 00:57:09 GMT:D > >Granted, it *CAN* be done. The issue is the effort involved to do6 > >something as simple as a global search and replace. > > - > >EDT? Fairly simple. One line-mode command:t > >l: > >S/string_to_find/strimg_to_replace_it_with/WHOLE/NOTYPE > >e > >TPU?l > One Do-key command:v > 9 > global replace string_to_find string_to_replace_it_with  > < > If you're writing a batch procedure, that translates into: > B > eve_global_replace("string_to_find","string_to_replace_it_with") > H > Every EVE command calls a TPU procedure with the command name and eve_L > prepended.  That way, the commands and procedure names both follow the VMS0 > tradition of approximating readable english.   > - > --Keith Lewis              klewis$mitre.orgt@ > The above may not (yet) represent the opinions of my employer.    / Cool. I tried it and I got it to work this way:,   $ type inline.tpua' eve_global_replace("asdf","single_com")n' $ edit/tpu blah.com/nodispl/comm=inliner5 5 lines read from file DISK$DATA1:[FELDMAN]BLAH.COM;3 9 EDT keypad defined (for more information, see help on EDT 
 DIFFERENCES). " Replacing all occurrences of: asdf Replaced 5 occurrences.g6 5 lines written to file DISK$DATA1:[FELDMAN]BLAH.COM;4  ( But I could not get it to work this way:   $ type inline.coml' $ edit/tpu blah.com/nodisplay/nocommandk' eve_global_replace("asdf","single_com")i  	 $ @inlinea' $ edit/tpu blah.com/nodisplay/nocommandv5 5 lines read from file DISK$DATA1:[FELDMAN]BLAH.COM;3 9 EDT keypad defined (for more information, see help on EDTl
 DIFFERENCES). B %DCL-W-SKPDAT, image data (records not beginning with "$") ignored  B Is there a way to do both the edit/tpu and the eve commands in the3 same file like this? What am I doing wrong? Thanks.w   Disclaimer: JMHO Alan E. Feldmana" afeldman atski gfigroup dotski com   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 07 May 2002 04:54:14 +0200l2 From: martin@radiogaga.harz.de (Martin Vorlaender)6 Subject: Re: EDT or EVE (and a fine DCL hack, also...); Message-ID: <3cd741d6.524144494f47414741@radiogaga.harz.de>w  / Alan E. Feldman (SPAMSINK2001@YAHOO.COM) wrote:"1 > lewis@PROBE.mitre.org (Keith A. Lewis) wrote...d; > > global replace string_to_find string_to_replace_it_witha > > > > > If you're writing a batch procedure, that translates into: > > D > > eve_global_replace("string_to_find","string_to_replace_it_with") ...i1 > Cool. I tried it and I got it to work this way:r >a > $ type inline.tpu ) > eve_global_replace("asdf","single_com")u) > $ edit/tpu blah.com/nodispl/comm=inlineo7 > 5 lines read from file DISK$DATA1:[FELDMAN]BLAH.COM;3c; > EDT keypad defined (for more information, see help on EDTn > DIFFERENCES).i$ > Replacing all occurrences of: asdf > Replaced 5 occurrences.n8 > 5 lines written to file DISK$DATA1:[FELDMAN]BLAH.COM;4 > * > But I could not get it to work this way: >  > $ type inline.com ) > $ edit/tpu blah.com/nodisplay/nocommandm) > eve_global_replace("asdf","single_com")d >  > $ @inlinea) > $ edit/tpu blah.com/nodisplay/nocommandm7 > 5 lines read from file DISK$DATA1:[FELDMAN]BLAH.COM;3,; > EDT keypad defined (for more information, see help on EDTn > DIFFERENCES).xD > %DCL-W-SKPDAT, image data (records not beginning with "$") ignored >gD > Is there a way to do both the edit/tpu and the eve commands in the5 > same file like this? What am I doing wrong? Thanks.   G You're not giving any commands to EVE. To a command in a COM procedure,nG SYS$INPUT is defined to the lines following the command (up to the next.  line starting with a dollar). So  0 $ edit/tpu blah.com/nodisplay/command=SYS$INPUT:' eve_global_replace("asdf","single_com")a $    should work.   cu,    Martin -- iA                      | Martin Vorlaender  |  VMS & WNT programmer,. Microsoft's answer   | work: mv@pdv-systeme.deA to OpenVMS is        |   http://www.pdv-systeme.de/users/martinv/w5 Windows NT 10.0.     | home: martin@radiogaga.harz.dea   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 06 May 2002 15:42:49 -0400k2 From: norm lastovica <norman.lastovica@oracle.com>0 Subject: Re: ES-40 x Oracle RDB *** PROBLEMS **** Message-ID: <3CD6DCB9.411376A9@oracle.com>  E It appears that this problem was formally reported to Rdb engineeringcB last week and we've been able to reproduce at least a problem withE using a left outer join and hashed indexes with the queries provided. E I suspect that continuing to work with Oracle Rdb support would be ofH
 value to you.a   Fabio Cardoso wrote: > - > Last month we migrated one application from)) > AS-4100 to a ES-40, but we had problemsb* > with the Oracle RDB Database. It was too- > slow and some queries and joins were giving. > us mismatched data.  >  > Our configuration wasr > - > ES-40 + OpenVMS 7.2-1H + Oracle  RDB 7.0-63e > ' > So, there is a case openend at Oracle * > to try to solve our problem. May be they1 > will suggest migrating to OVMS 7.3 an ORDB 7.1.e > - > Is Anyone here using this configuration ???c > 	 > Regardst >  > FC >  > =====h > ========================== > Fbio dos Santos Cardoso > OpenVMS System Manager > Rio de Janeiro - Brazilo > fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br > ========================== > 4 > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!?3 > Yahoo! Health - your guide to health and wellnessm > http://health.yahoo.comm   -- y> norman lastovica / oracle rdb engineering / usa / 610.696.4685   ------------------------------   Date: 6 May 2002 11:27:40 -0700 . From: SPAMSINK2001@YAHOO.COM (Alan E. Feldman)) Subject: Re: Fix for EDT emulation in EVEe= Message-ID: <343f30ae.0205061027.250de0aa@posting.google.com>   j "Peter Weaver" <peter.weaver@stelco.ca> wrote in message news:<ab64qd$f9j34$1@ID-141708.news.dfncis.de>...= > "Alan E. Feldman" <spamsink2001@yahoo.com> wrote in message 8 > news:b096a4ee.0205040827.47bb4ba@posting.google.com... > >...E > > You just made my case for why EDT is useful. Years ago when I was  > L > Yes, EDT is useful. As I mentioned before in my previous post, if I had toN > do a global replace in a production job, I would use EDT exactly the way youK > did. But for other jobs I would use TPU. They are both just tools and you L > have to use the right one for the job. (See my post in the thread "CaptureM > single keystroke from DCL" for an example of a routine I would write in TPU/, > that I can not find an EDT way to do. :) )    F I agree that both EDT and EVE/tpu are useful. I use both. But I prefer@ the feel of EDT. And I mention the advantages of EDT mainly as aE counterpoint to those who say to just forget EDT and use only EVE and- TPU.    N > Here is another routine that I would not know how to write in EDT. It searchN > for any tabs and/or spaces at the end of the line and removes them. I can do< > spaces or I can do tabs in EDT, but I need TPU to do both. >  >  > $ type trim_lines.tpuC >   > PROCEDURE tpu$init_procedure ;5 > input_file := GET_INFO(COMMAND_LINE, 'file_name') ;C! [many lines of TPU code snipped] d. > QUIT ; ! This is only for the /COMMAND call.    B Here's how to do it in EDT (well, it's written to define a key for: line by line use. One can modify it to do the whole file):  C DEFINE KEY      CONTROL D AS "(ADV EL +C FILLBL -ELD-C)."  ! Delete / obnoxious spaces and tabs at the end of a line!(   Here it is for the whole file:  C DEFINE KEY      CONTROL D AS "BR32000(ADV EL +C FILLBL -ELD-C)."  !t9 Delete obnoxious spaces and tabs at the end of all lines.m  D Assuming there are .le. 32000 lines in your file, of course. I think? there is a line limit for EDT, but I don't remember what it is./? Hopefully none of your files needing this are bigger than that!e    I > > working in physics, it happened from time to time that I needed to do I > > global substitutes in many "input" files. With EDT, this is triviallys@ > > easy as seen in the quote above. With EVE it becomes a totalC > > nightmare. I can't use the "Do command line mode commands" in aeJ > > script. I have to write (and waste time learning yet another language,E > > debugging, etc.) or dig up examples of how to do this, reject the. > J > Or take a copy of the generic routine that has been posted twice in this3 > tread and I don't know how many times previously.t > H > > worthless ones (GSR.TPU, for example, which still no one can tell me0 > > how to make work), find one that works, etc. > J > I thought Rob answered that in his message before. But here it is again;    8 He said that GSR.TPU was hard coded, so what good is it?     > 1. Find these lines;0 >     global_search_replace ("xyz$_", "user$_");# >     pat1:= "" & LINE_BEGIN & "t";d, >     POSITION (BEGINNING_OF (main_buffer));( >     global_search_replace (pat1, "T");G > 2. Change the xyz$_ to your old string, change the user$_ to your newn	 > string. C > 3. Keep repeating the POSITION (BEGINNING_OF (main_buffer));  andrB > global_search_replace lines for each replacement you want to do.    D OK, that would make it work, but why bother? Every time that I wouldF need to do a global search and replace I'd have to make copies of thisF file and edit in the new values! Yes, the REPLACE_WILDCARD.COM is muchB better, but still not as good as what you can do with EDT for this/ problem, as you agreed at the top of this post.-  e  a= > > All this because I can't simply put the Do commands I runeF > > interactively into a script. And I wouldn't call global search and > M > You can, like I showed before in a previous post. The EVE commands that youoH > type at the Do prompt are available, just append EVE_ to the front andL > replace spaces with underscores. But you have to be careful if the command3 > is going to ask for a response from the terminal.     A AHA! Just prepend EVE_ to the EVE command and fill in blanks with ' underscores! That's the secret. Thanks!(  u   > >... > L > I was one of the people who yelled at DEC when the V4.0 release notes saidK > that EDT would be replaced by TPU. Back then I was accused a few times of M > spending all day working on a CTRL-K then at the end of the day pressing my J > newly defined key to write my program. I think the VMS group has stoppedL > saying that EDT will be removed from future versions., so we don't need toN > have editor wars to convince them that EDT is just as useful as it ever was.K > But TPU also has useful features, I think it is worthwhile to learn both.l > Just my $0.02 CDN.    A Thanks for helping to save EDT! I just wish they would add "tall"n% screen and long record support to it!<     Disclaimer: JMHO Alan E. Feldman." afeldman atski gfigroup dotski com   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 06 May 2002 18:53:43 GMT 0 From: Jeffrey Chimene <jeff.nospam@systasis.net>) Subject: Re: Fix for EDT emulation in EVEW, Message-ID: <3CD6D4BD.B5F563F0@systasis.net>  N > Here is another routine that I would not know how to write in EDT. It searchN > for any tabs and/or spaces at the end of the line and removes them. I can do< > spaces or I can do tabs in EDT, but I need TPU to do both. >c  G You might want to issue the following command at the "Command: " prompt      tpu eve$x_trimming := 1;  C Then write the buffer. EVE will trim the lines for you. I find thist: useful when lots of box select work has munged the buffer.   -- microsoft free by 2003   ------------------------------  $ Date: Mon, 6 May 2002 14:57:30 -0400- From: "Peter Weaver" <peter.weaver@stelco.ca>:) Subject: Re: Fix for EDT emulation in EVEi5 Message-ID: <ab6jnf$fm7hr$1@ID-141708.news.dfncis.de>I  ; "Alan E. Feldman" <SPAMSINK2001@YAHOO.COM> wrote in message 7 news:343f30ae.0205061027.250de0aa@posting.google.com...  >...E > DEFINE KEY      CONTROL D AS "(ADV EL +C FILLBL -ELD-C)."  ! Deleteu1 > obnoxious spaces and tabs at the end of a line!  >...  D I have to add that one to my .EDT file (if I can find an empty key).   -- Peter WeaverL Opinions are my own, and do not reflect the opinions of my employer, nor theK company that it sub-contracts to, nor the company that it sub-contracts to.    ------------------------------   Date: 6 May 02 22:43:23 +02008) From: p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture)n) Subject: Re: Fix for EDT emulation in EVEk) Message-ID: <xuF1dDJMVMmv@elias.decus.ch>s  n In article <343f30ae.0205061027.250de0aa@posting.google.com>, SPAMSINK2001@YAHOO.COM (Alan E. Feldman) writes:l > "Peter Weaver" <peter.weaver@stelco.ca> wrote in message news:<ab64qd$f9j34$1@ID-141708.news.dfncis.de>...> >> "Alan E. Feldman" <spamsink2001@yahoo.com> wrote in message9 >> news:b096a4ee.0205040827.47bb4ba@posting.google.com...g >> >...iF >> > You just made my case for why EDT is useful. Years ago when I was >> .M >> Yes, EDT is useful. As I mentioned before in my previous post, if I had to O >> do a global replace in a production job, I would use EDT exactly the way youeL >> did. But for other jobs I would use TPU. They are both just tools and youM >> have to use the right one for the job. (See my post in the thread "CapturetN >> single keystroke from DCL" for an example of a routine I would write in TPU- >> that I can not find an EDT way to do. :) )i >  > H > I agree that both EDT and EVE/tpu are useful. I use both. But I preferB > the feel of EDT. And I mention the advantages of EDT mainly as aG > counterpoint to those who say to just forget EDT and use only EVE anda > TPU. >  > O >> Here is another routine that I would not know how to write in EDT. It search O >> for any tabs and/or spaces at the end of the line and removes them. I can doM= >> spaces or I can do tabs in EDT, but I need TPU to do both.u >> r >>   >> $ type trim_lines.tpu >> c! >> PROCEDURE tpu$init_procedure ;.6 >> input_file := GET_INFO(COMMAND_LINE, 'file_name') ;# > [many lines of TPU code snipped] A/ >> QUIT ; ! This is only for the /COMMAND call.  >  > D > Here's how to do it in EDT (well, it's written to define a key for< > line by line use. One can modify it to do the whole file): > E > DEFINE KEY      CONTROL D AS "(ADV EL +C FILLBL -ELD-C)."  ! Delete 1 > obnoxious spaces and tabs at the end of a line!n >   > Here it is for the whole file: > E > DEFINE KEY      CONTROL D AS "BR32000(ADV EL +C FILLBL -ELD-C)."  !a; > Delete obnoxious spaces and tabs at the end of all lines.l > F > Assuming there are .le. 32000 lines in your file, of course. I thinkA > there is a line limit for EDT, but I don't remember what it is.rA > Hopefully none of your files needing this are bigger than that!l > C I tried demonstrating EDT's line limit to a colleague last week. To ? my suprise it handled a file with > 70,000 lines. This on Alpha"	 V7.2-1H1., >  __
 Paul Sture Switzerlandc   ------------------------------   Date: 6 May 2002 16:44:38 -0700C. From: SPAMSINK2001@YAHOO.COM (Alan E. Feldman)) Subject: Re: Fix for EDT emulation in EVEo= Message-ID: <343f30ae.0205061544.70b3a6bd@posting.google.com>   s SPAMSINK2001@YAHOO.COM (Alan E. Feldman) wrote in message news:<343f30ae.0205061027.250de0aa@posting.google.com>...>l > "Peter Weaver" <peter.weaver@stelco.ca> wrote in message news:<ab64qd$f9j34$1@ID-141708.news.dfncis.de>...? > > "Alan E. Feldman" <spamsink2001@yahoo.com> wrote in messagee: > > news:b096a4ee.0205040827.47bb4ba@posting.google.com... > > >... [...]  >   > Here it is for the whole file: > E > DEFINE KEY      CONTROL D AS "BR32000(ADV EL +C FILLBL -ELD-C)."  !(; > Delete obnoxious spaces and tabs at the end of all lines.n > F > Assuming there are .le. 32000 lines in your file, of course. I thinkA > there is a line limit for EDT, but I don't remember what it is.pA > Hopefully none of your files needing this are bigger than that!c    C OK, I checked it out. The repeat count has a limit of 32767, so youmC can substitute that for 32000. But the line limit: I looked up some E old posts and saw aclaim that the number of lines in an EDT buffer istD limited to 65536. In fact, I do hazily recall that from my days withE VMS v5.5-2. But earlier today I made a file with 132059 lines!!! Most(F of them are blank lines, though. Apparently, EDT now has a larger line# limit (Example run under VMS v6.1):2  
 $ ed funk.datg     1       LINE 1 *f e *sh bufK =MAIN   132059  lines   PASTE  No      linesc
 *show versiontC V3.12-03                  COPYRIGHT  DIGITAL EQUIPMENT CORPORATIONr 1980 & 1991E *6   [...]i   Disclaimer: JMHO Alan E. Feldman " afeldman atski gfigroup dotski com   ------------------------------   Date: 06 May 2002 18:53:00 GMT From: Alex <a.fee@wanadoo.fr>  Subject: FTP to IBM AIXO, Message-ID: <200256-19530-674597@foorum.com>  
 Hi  everybodyl  Q I want to transfer a text file with delimited fields via FTP to a IBM AIX server.e  (put file)n  O But, for a reason I don't know, it does not take in account the line feeder or l carriage return.I I tried the FTP in ASCII and BINARY mode and also from the IBM (get file)r  I When I look my fiel in VMS, delimiters, beginof line and end of line are e? question mark (?) but with the top to bottom and bottom to top.S  ? When I look my file in Unix with an ASCII editor, I should see:e bla bla \r\n bla bla  but I seet bla bla \n bla bla   Is there a solution to my pb.  y  4 Thanks in advance for your help.                Alex   -- ,4 Use our news server 'news.foorum.com' from anywhere./ More details at: http://nnrpinfo.go.foorum.com/n   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 07 May 2002 01:45:29 GMTf1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>R Subject: Re: FTP to IBM AIXr' Message-ID: <3CD734C1.67D27605@fsi.net>    Alex wrote:  >  > Hi  everybodyE > S > I want to transfer a text file with delimited fields via FTP to a IBM AIX server.t
 >  (put file)o > P > But, for a reason I don't know, it does not take in account the line feeder or > carriage return.K > I tried the FTP in ASCII and BINARY mode and also from the IBM (get file)d > J > When I look my fiel in VMS, delimiters, beginof line and end of line areA > question mark (?) but with the top to bottom and bottom to top.w > A > When I look my file in Unix with an ASCII editor, I should see:t! > bla bla \r\n bla bla  but I seew > bla bla \n bla bla >  > Is there a solution to my pb.r  5 Well, yeah, but it may add a step to your processing.   D Unless the file lives on the source machine in STREAM format (recordD delimiters <CR><LF>), you'll have to do a CONVERT from (whatever) toF Stream before you do the transfer, then transfer the file as BINARY to3 help ensure that the contents are passed unaltered.B  A Here's an easy way to do that without keeping a .FDL file around:f   $ COPY NLA0: BLANK.DAT3 $ SET FILE/ATTR=(RFM=STM,MRS=0,LRL=32767) BLANK.DATt $ APPEND filespec BLANK.DAT 5 $! Ignore any messages about file attribute mismatch.e  ; Then, transfer "BLANK.DAT" to the target machine as BINARY.w   Just an idea...i   -- p David J. Dachterap dba DJE Systemsl http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/A   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 07 May 2002 02:19:37 GMT 0 From: "Matt Muggeridge" <Matt.Muggeridge@hp.com> Subject: Re: FTP to IBM AIXn@ Message-ID: <ZQGB8.102046$o66.292021@news-server.bigpond.net.au>  * You don't mention which version of TCP/IP.  I In the first part of you topic you imply VMS is acting as the FTP server.lE Then you mention looking at the file on OpenVMS where you notice some/D strange '?' characters.  Did you mean on AIX you see the strange '?' characters?D  K Another thought that may be worth a try is to compress the file on OpenVMS,DG (e.g. zip), then transfer it in BINARY mode, then unzip it on AIX side.s   Matt.w --= -------------------------------------------------------------  OpenVMS TCP/IP Engineering Enterprise Computing Group Hewlett Packard CorporationT Gold Coast, AUSTRALIAo= -------------------------------------------------------------n    * "Alex" <a.fee@wanadoo.fr> wrote in message& news:200256-19530-674597@foorum.com... >n > Hi  everybody_ >bK > I want to transfer a text file with delimited fields via FTP to a IBM AIX  server. 
 >  (put file)r > F > But, for a reason I don't know, it does not take in account the line	 feeder ore > carriage return.K > I tried the FTP in ASCII and BINARY mode and also from the IBM (get file): >rJ > When I look my fiel in VMS, delimiters, beginof line and end of line areA > question mark (?) but with the top to bottom and bottom to top.l >oA > When I look my file in Unix with an ASCII editor, I should see:3! > bla bla \r\n bla bla  but I seea > bla bla \n bla bla >w > Is there a solution to my pb.e >n6 > Thanks in advance for your help.                Alex >r > --6 > Use our news server 'news.foorum.com' from anywhere.1 > More details at: http://nnrpinfo.go.foorum.com/w   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 06 May 2002 22:09:39 -0400r1 From: Michael Austin <maustin@firstdbasource.com>f Subject: Re: FTP to IBM AIXu2 Message-ID: <3CD73763.88A85857@firstdbasource.com>   Alex wrote:l >  > Hi  everybodyn > S > I want to transfer a text file with delimited fields via FTP to a IBM AIX server. 
 >  (put file)+ > P > But, for a reason I don't know, it does not take in account the line feeder or > carriage return.K > I tried the FTP in ASCII and BINARY mode and also from the IBM (get file)e > J > When I look my fiel in VMS, delimiters, beginof line and end of line areA > question mark (?) but with the top to bottom and bottom to top.M > A > When I look my file in Unix with an ASCII editor, I should see:=! > bla bla \r\n bla bla  but I see_ > bla bla \n bla bla >  > Is there a solution to my pb.? > 6 > Thanks in advance for your help.                Alex >  > --6 > Use our news server 'news.foorum.com' from anywhere.1 > More details at: http://nnrpinfo.go.foorum.com/-  E how are you transferring the files?  Unix does not use cr\lf, it onlyCF uses \n (lf) and if IIRC, it is basically "converted".  If you want to/ keep those, try transferring it in binary mode.e --   Regards,  7 Michael Austin            Registered Linux User #26116367 First DBA Source, Inc.    http://www.firstdbasource.comm Sr. Consultant 704-947-1089 (Office)e 704-236-4377 (Mobile).   ------------------------------   Date: 6 May 2002 14:47:50 -0700y( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)N Subject: Re: How to rotate Apache/CSWS log files under VMS, without a restart?= Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0205061347.282e8aa4@posting.google.com>u  Z p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture) wrote in message news:<ca2gjjjgn340@elias.decus.ch>...j > In article <d7791aa1.0205050731.13a74688@posting.google.com>, bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski) writes:^ > > p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture) wrote in message news:<d5S5NQ5j+iHQ@elias.decus.ch>...Q > >> Subject says it all, really. From the documentation on www.apache.org, I canfD > >> find out how to do this on a *n*x system, but how to do on VMS? > >> pS > >> Sure I can drop and restart Apache, but in my netblock I am 3rd after a couplenT > >> of Linux boxes in uptime ratings. It's quite nice to see OpenVMS sitting there,) > >> and I'd like to keep it that way :-)e > >>   > >> __  > >> Paul Sture  > >> Switzerland > > C > > on Purveyor you set your logs to be created on a daily, weekly, @ > > or monthly basis and don't even worry about that ... I don't > > know about Apache ...T > F > What on earth? The subject clearly says Apache/CSWS. If I had wanted* > help with Purveyor I would have said so. > 8 > But while I have your attention, let me tell you this: > E > We moved office a few months ago and in the general clearout of old.J > stuff, I came across a CD with Purveyor on it. If you hadn't peristentlyG > and repeatedly pestered us all, to the point where the record has gotI4 > stuck, I may have been tempted to give it a whirl. > F > You see, every time you bring the subject up, someone chimes in that' > Purveyor is no longer being marketed.i > < > I had absolutely no hesitation throwing the CD in the bin. > # > Please note the following points:t > F > o - Apache/CSWS is being actively developed and supported by OpenVMS< >     Engineering. An OpenVMS license gets you that support./ > o - WASD and OSU are also actively supported.tA > o - Purveyor is being neither actively developed nor supported.e > I > Simple choice to me. Unless you already have a lot of code designed fort> > Purveyor it comes a very firm last out of all four products. > __ > Paul Sture
 > Switzerlandc  F just because something is supported doesn't make it ok (i.e. windoze).I You made a big mistake, oh well, your loss ... have fun w/unix conf land.    ------------------------------   Date: 6 May 02 20:23:56 +0200e) From: p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture)sA Subject: Re: MacOS/X is the leading Unix (was "Itanium Troubles")t) Message-ID: <H+eOtOM5D6tC@elias.decus.ch>U  c In article <dmUyiPKptrRF@eisner.encompasserve.org>, koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes: p > In article <3CD509CE.3D4D72A1@YouKnowWhere.com>, "Atlant G. Schmidt" <Atlant.Schmidt@YouKnowWhere.com> writes: >> lJ >> So, in *ONE QUARTER*, Apple shipped about 3 times as many units as Sun,I >> the largest Unix vendor, shipped in the entire year and as of Jan 1st,(J >> *ALL* of those Macintoshes were running OS/X from the factory. At a runG >> rate that exceeds 2.4 Million desktops and laptops per year, I'd say J >> that supports my claim fairly well. I don't have figures for Linux, andI >> we could debate whether I meant to include that in "Unix", but there's J >> no doubt that among the true Unixes, MacOS/X now has the leading share. >> , > @ >    As well it should, since it's the only one with a good user >    interface.u >   G There's a flaw to this argument about MacOS/X having the leading share,gI since OS/X does not come installed with a new machine. New Macs _do_ comehF with an OS/X CD, but it is _not_ factory installed. That may of course vary by country and supplier.e   __
 Paul Sture SwitzerlandB   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 06 May 2002 14:57:16 -0400f2 From: Atlant Schmidt <atlantnospam@mindspring.com>A Subject: Re: MacOS/X is the leading Unix (was "Itanium Troubles")r. Message-ID: <3CD6D20C.77453330@mindspring.com>   Paul Sture wrote:a  I > There's a flaw to this argument about MacOS/X having the leading share,BK > since OS/X does not come installed with a new machine. New Macs _do_ comeKH > with an OS/X CD, but it is _not_ factory installed. That may of course > vary by country and supplier.s  F I'm sorry, but you're wrong. It has been pre-installed on new machinesG since March 24th, 2001. Yes, in those early days, it wasn't the defaultfH operating system; the user had to pro-actively select it over MacOS 9.2.  F But since the first of this year, MacOS/X is not only pre-installed on@ *EVERY* Macintosh shipped worldwide, it is the default operating> system. The user now must pro-actively choose to de-select it.  C I think I stand on very safe ground in making my claim that MacOS/X - now owns the Unix desktop/laptop marketplace.h   Atlant   ------------------------------   Date: 6 May 2002 15:24:21 -0500e- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) A Subject: Re: MacOS/X is the leading Unix (was "Itanium Troubles")I3 Message-ID: <YmrUVoCQMHok@eisner.encompasserve.org>t  c In article <3CD6D20C.77453330@mindspring.com>, Atlant Schmidt <atlantnospam@mindspring.com> writes:   H > But since the first of this year, MacOS/X is not only pre-installed onB > *EVERY* Macintosh shipped worldwide, it is the default operating@ > system. The user now must pro-actively choose to de-select it.  @ You seem to discount the possibility that significant numbers of
 user do that.-   ------------------------------  $ Date: Mon, 6 May 2002 15:32:17 -05001 From: "Dave Gudewicz" <david.gudewicz@abbott.com>iA Subject: Re: MacOS/X is the leading Unix (was "Itanium Troubles") 8 Message-ID: <ab6pcl$lfe$1@fizban.fizban.pprd.abbott.com>   Can't speak for all but....2  K I know a few MAC users, including my daughter.  None of them have done whatCD you suggested.  They like OS X.  And speaking for my high school ageG daughter, she could care less if its UNIX or BOZO under the hood of the 2 thing.  Its a tool that gets her school work done.   Dave...   : "Larry Kilgallen" <Kilgallen@SpamCop.net> wrote in message- news:YmrUVoCQMHok@eisner.encompasserve.org...u? > In article <3CD6D20C.77453330@mindspring.com>, Atlant Schmidt % <atlantnospam@mindspring.com> writes:. >uJ > > But since the first of this year, MacOS/X is not only pre-installed onD > > *EVERY* Macintosh shipped worldwide, it is the default operatingB > > system. The user now must pro-actively choose to de-select it. >eB > You seem to discount the possibility that significant numbers of > user do that.D   ------------------------------   Date: 6 May 2002 12:15:44 -0700c, From: jeremybarker@email.com (Jeremy Barker) Subject: Re: New to VAXe= Message-ID: <5b86b9ee.0205061115.60851381@posting.google.com>s  Z David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> wrote in message news:<3CD3290F.30307@tsoft-inc.com>...N > I'm sure the list is far from complete.  I figured others would fill it out. > R > One person mentioned the VT-241, and that jogs my memory a bit.  Possibly there O > was never a VT-230, and the VT-240 was black & white, and the Vt-241 was the " > color model. > M > Then there was the Robin, a VT-100 with an embedded computer, running CP/M  * > possibly, and some funky 8 inch floppys.  D The VT180 (aka Robin) had a Z-80 based CP/M computer built into it. E It used 5 1/4 inch floppies that were packaged in pairs in a separate D box.  You could daisy-chain 2 of these boxes to the terminal/CPU boxA for a massive total of 720KB of online storage.  The first usefulw computer I owned was a VT180.   > There was also the never-sold VT185 which was a VT180 with the! graphics unit from a VT125 added.n  J > I think there was a VT-103 also, but cannot remember what it was.  Also @ > something targetted at IBM.  Possibly the one mentioned below.  D The VT103 had a 4x4 slot Q-bus backplane and beefed-up power supply.  F There were also the PDT-11 series of terminals which were a VT100 withE built-in LSI-11 computers.  IIRC there were three versions.  One witheF no mass storage, one with a dual TU58 DECtape-II and one with external dual 8-inch floppies.F  B# > It's been a while, over 25 years.p >  > Dave >  >  > John Smith wrote:  > O > > Weren't there a couple of 'block mode' variants (similar to 3270) along the+ > > way too? > >  > > 9 > > "David Froble" <davef@tsoft-inc.com> wrote in message * > > news:3CD180AE.3030000@tsoft-inc.com... > >  > >>Steve wrote: > >> > >> > >>>Hi there, > >>> L > >>>I'm very new to Vax systems and I was questionning about terminals. CanC > >>>anyone explain me what's the differences between VT100, VT340,m4 > >>>VT420...etc..etc... what makes them different ? > >>>e@ > >>>I can't find any "clear" document on the net about that ... > >>>t > >>>Thanks a lot! > >>>-
 > >>>Steve > >>>aH > >>A brief, and not necessarily complete, history of the DEC terminals. > >>" > >>VT05B - a very early CRT, 1973A > >>VT52 - A rather large box introduced in the mid to late 1970smD > >>VT100 - The beginning of the  rather successful line of DEC CRTs1 > >>VT101 - really can't remember the differences>$ > >>VT102 - A VT100 with more memory" > >>VT220 - Successor to the VT1003 > >>VT230 - A graphics terminal, for REGIS and suchl( > >>VT240 - a color version of the VT2305 > >>VT320 - smaller and better successor to the VT220o" > >>VT330 - successor to the VT230" > >>VT340 - successor to the VT240D > >>VT420 - successor to the VT320, included sessions, more features? > >>VT510 - limited ability successor to the VT420, no sessions G > >>VT520 - full featured successor to the VT420, allowed more sessions J > >>VT525 - a box that provided VT520 capabilities, using a PC monitor for > >> > > display, > > N > >>         allowed various color selections and such.  Nice but a bit pricy. > >>N > >>There were a few more, not very significant models.  All the above is fromL > >>memory and without any research.  Some data could be wrong.  None of the# > >>X-windows devices are included.  > >>E > >>The VT520 is the (relative) best of all the terminals, all thingsf > >> > > considered.! > > L > >>The VT525 is better, but more pieces and larger.  A VT420 is also a niceM > >>terminal.  The VT320 is probably the smallest of all of them, but doesn'tsA > >>support multiple sessions.  It makes a good console termianl.o > >> > >>Dave, full of trivia today.  > >> > >> > >  > >P   ------------------------------   Date: 6 May 2002 12:39:54 -0700d, From: jeremybarker@email.com (Jeremy Barker) Subject: Re: New to VAX-= Message-ID: <5b86b9ee.0205061139.4b40d45c@posting.google.com>.  \ David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> wrote in message news:<3CD180AE.3030000@tsoft-inc.com>... > Steve wrote: > 
 > > Hi there,t > > K > > I'm very new to Vax systems and I was questionning about terminals. Can B > > anyone explain me what's the differences between VT100, VT340,3 > > VT420...etc..etc... what makes them different ?e > > ? > > I can't find any "clear" document on the net about that ...i > >  > > Thanks a lot!d > > 	 > > Steveu > F > A brief, and not necessarily complete, history of the DEC terminals.  6 I've added a few more things to make it more complete.    > VT05B - a very early CRT, 1973  F The case was a very slick design.  As it was intended to be a Teletype) replacement it only displayed 72 columns.s  > The VT50 came next.  It displayed 12 lines of 80 characters inF upper-case only.  There was also the VT50-H but I can't remember where' that fitted into the pattern of things.m  ? > VT52 - A rather large box introduced in the mid to late 1970s   D The VT52 used the same case as the VT50 and was the basis if severalD other terminals.  The VT55 had rather crude graphics and came with a= horrible hard copy option that used some sort of electrolytic,? deposition technology that would not work if the unit got dry! fE Various other terminals were built using the VT52 as a basis.  One (IeC think it might have been VT62) was a block-mode device made for the D Trax system.  One particularly successful variant was the WS78 whichE had a PDP-8 built into it and was sold as the DECmate word processor.n  B > VT100 - The beginning of the  rather successful line of DEC CRTs  E The VT100 had various expansion options.  The most common was the AVOeD (Advanced Video Option) that allowed you to display a full screen ofE 24 lines of 132 characters.  It was relatively unusual for a VT100 to< not have an AVO fitted.   B The VT100X was a TEMPEST emission controlled version of the VT100.  / > VT101 - really can't remember the differencesc  F The VT101 was a reduced-cost version of the VT100.  It used a 8085 CPU? rather than the VT100's 8080 but didn't have the same expansionA- facilities.  It was like a VT100 with no AVO.E  " > VT102 - A VT100 with more memory  F Based on the VT101 but had the same capability as a VT100 with an AVO.  E The VT105 had crude graphics and was sold as a VT55 replacement.  ThetD VT125 had much better graphics and you could hook up a color monitorB to it via 3 BNC sockets on the back.  Both these were based on theC VT100 and used the expansion capability built into the VT100.  IIRCM@ the VT125 could be bought as an upgrade option that was not that difficult to install.8   <snip>  = There was also the VT7x series of special terminals sold withe> newspaper typesetting systems.  As these were never mainstream) products very few people know about them.n   jb   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 06 May 2002 16:10:15 -0400s% From: Jim Agnew <agnew@mail2.vcu.edu>n Subject: Re: New to VAXn- Message-ID: <3CD6E327.6D55C904@mail2.vcu.edu>p   Jeremy Barker wrote: >  > @ > There was also the never-sold VT185 which was a VT180 with the# > graphics unit from a VT125 added.- >   F Hey, I tried to do that, but only one slot was avail.. did they extend  the vt100 backplane to do that??   Jimp   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 06 May 2002 23:42:15 -0400-2 From: rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger) Subject: Re: New to VAX0J Message-ID: <rdeininger-0605022342150001@1cust97.tnt2.nashua.nh.da.uu.net>  = In article <5b86b9ee.0205061115.60851381@posting.google.com>,r- jeremybarker@email.com (Jeremy Barker) wrote:o    / > ... IIRC there were three versions.  One withrG >no mass storage, one with a dual TU58 DECtape-II and one with externala >dual 8-inch floppies.  ' Which was the one with no mass storage?i   ;-)    ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 06 May 2002 20:43:38 GMT   From: oldworld@OldWorldHerbs.com9 Subject: NOT VIAGRA___Healing Herbs  All HERBAL remedies!s; Message-ID: <_VBB8.50767$9F5.2903450@typhoon.austin.rr.com>a   Tired of painful cramps?0 Tired of constant abdominal pain from digestion?* Tired of losing focus, or of oversleeping?  2 You can wake up to the news of herbal supplements, www.oldworldherbs.como  2 We have herbal supplements for aqll walks of life: 	eW 	For Women, we have an ANTI-PMS tincture to help with those painful times of the month,u   	For Buisness-people, for studnets, for those (like me) that have to work late, we have a tincture to help you REMEBER what day of the week it is.   	And lastly for Everybody in the united states, we have a capsuled formula to aid in elimination.  90% of ALL diseases start in the bowel this is a proven fact!   	Your health is like your car, wait to long to get schedualed maintenance, and you are looking at a massive repair bill, so save your pocketbook from your doctor, and come and see us!r   	www.oldworldherbs.com null   ------------------------------  $ Date: Mon, 6 May 2002 09:23:14 -0400* From: "Stanley F. Quayle" <stan@stanq.com>" Subject: Re: OpenVMS Certification- Message-ID: <3CD64B82.1821.372AE36@localhost>s  * > How many guys are cetified in OpenVMS in0 > this newsgroup ??? Was it worthful for you ???- > May be there is a possibility for me to getp > a certification.  @ I completed my OpenVMS SE certification a month or two ago.  It E hasn't resulted in any business for my consulting company (yet), but wA is a logical credential to have.  Looks nice on my web page, too.a    
 --Stan Quaylet! President, Quayle Consulting Inc.   
 ----------G Stanley F. Quayle, P.E.   N8SQ   +1 614-868-1363   Fax: +1 614 868-1671-1 8572 North Spring Ct. NW, Pickerington, OH  43147-= Preferred address:  stan@stanq.com       http://www.stanq.comr   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 06 May 2002 23:29:36 GMT/6 From: "Andy Bustamante" <a_c_bustamante@earthlink.net>" Subject: Re: OpenVMS CertificationD Message-ID: <AlEB8.1452$663.121056@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net>  K I took the ASE exams several years ago.  As a reseller, the biggest benefit7L has been wearing ASE logo shirts to customer sites.  This adds to credibiltyL as a VMS reseller.  I haven't used the support options, since we have formalJ support contracts in place.  The ASE folks have provided CETS discounts in the past, which is very nice.      -- Andy Bustamantes Alpha/OpenVMS ASEo   Remove the ASCII 95s to reply       ; "Fabio Cardoso" <fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br> wrote in messagen: news:20020506113943.30895.qmail@web20205.mail.yahoo.com... > Hi peoplei >n* > How many guys are cetified in OpenVMS in0 > this newsgroup ??? Was it worthful for you ???- > May be there is a possibility for me to getr > a certification. >a	 > Regardsk >  > FC >m > =====s > ========================== > Fbio dos Santos Cardoso > OpenVMS System Manager > Rio de Janeiro - Brazile > fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br > ========================== >I4 > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!?3 > Yahoo! Health - your guide to health and wellnessd > http://health.yahoo.com    ------------------------------  $ Date: Mon, 6 May 2002 21:15:17 -0400* From: "Stanley F. Quayle" <stan@stanq.com>" Subject: Re: OpenVMS Certification- Message-ID: <3CD6F265.3008.5FE963A@localhost>   / On 6 May 2002, at 23:29, Andy Bustamante wrote:j  M > I took the ASE exams several years ago.  As a reseller, the biggest benefit N > has been wearing ASE logo shirts to customer sites.  This adds to credibilty > as a VMS reseller.  E Gee, I haven't seen any opportunities to pick up some T-shirts.  I'd  A like that.  My "OpenVMS Hobbyist" shirt just doesn't produce the   proper reaction.  V > I haven't used the support options, since we have formal support contracts in place.  ? As my clients have dropped support and moved to (ahem) "other" eF operating systems, my opportunities to access support dried up.  Free # support is nothing to sneeze about.l  ? One unexpected benefit was a complete set of the Alpha VMS 7.3 .> consolidated distribution disks.  That was worth the price of  admission alone.  E I asked if I could get the VAX version of 7.3.  After several rounds  D of "we don't support VAXes anymore", a complete set of VAX 7.3 CD's  arrived as well.  $ That saved me about $500 just there.  / > The ASE folks have provided CETS discounts inr > the past, which is very nice.h  6 Something to look forward to in the next few months...  
 --Stan QuayleA! President, Quayle Consulting Inc.m  
 ----------G Stanley F. Quayle, P.E.   N8SQ   +1 614-868-1363   Fax: +1 614 868-1671i1 8572 North Spring Ct. NW, Pickerington, OH  43147r= Preferred address:  stan@stanq.com       http://www.stanq.com(   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 06 May 2002 22:19:59 -0400n1 From: Michael Austin <maustin@firstdbasource.com>t" Subject: Re: OpenVMS Certification2 Message-ID: <3CD739CF.74E0E94B@firstdbasource.com>   Fabio Cardoso wrote: >  > Hi peoplem > * > How many guys are cetified in OpenVMS in0 > this newsgroup ??? Was it worthful for you ???- > May be there is a possibility for me to geti > a certification. > 	 > Regardsi >  > FC >  > =====t > ========================== > Fbio dos Santos Cardoso > OpenVMS System Manager > Rio de Janeiro - Brazilo > fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br > ========================== > 4 > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!?3 > Yahoo! Health - your guide to health and wellnessB > http://health.yahoo.com-  F Gee, why would one need a "certification" with 18 years experience.  IH feel sorry for those who hire "certified" over experience...  I have hadH to clean up after way too many "certified" this or that to have anything good to say about it...r   -- l Regards,  7 Michael Austin            Registered Linux User #261163 7 First DBA Source, Inc.    http://www.firstdbasource.com  Sr. Consultant 704-947-1089 (Office)s 704-236-4377 (Mobile)d   ------------------------------  $ Date: Mon, 6 May 2002 23:38:57 -0400* From: "Stanley F. Quayle" <stan@stanq.com>" Subject: Re: OpenVMS Certification- Message-ID: <3CD71411.5674.6821E15@localhost>f  . On 6 May 2002, at 22:19, Michael Austin wrote:H > Gee, why would one need a "certification" with 18 years experience.  I> > feel sorry for those who hire "certified" over experience...  C Brother, I feel your pain.  A piece of paper versus a proven track s	 record...e  F However, small-minded people only know to look for the paper, not the D track record.  So, why not spend a few bucks on the certification?  - Some of those small-minded people have money.1  E In my experience, most of the money is in the hands of those kind of R people.  Ironic, isn't it?    
 --Stan Quayleo! President, Quayle Consulting Inc.@  
 ----------G Stanley F. Quayle, P.E.   N8SQ   +1 614-868-1363   Fax: +1 614 868-1671m1 8572 North Spring Ct. NW, Pickerington, OH  43147 = Preferred address:  stan@stanq.com       http://www.stanq.com    ------------------------------   Date: 6 May 2002 12:09:53 -0700g  From: deltauh@yahoo.com (daniel)$ Subject: PointSecure has a new site.= Message-ID: <e6e1751e.0205061109.27a5f8a2@posting.google.com>   F Hey pointsecure made a new site and the link for the white paper seems to be back up.    9 > >>|> The best hackers in the country tried to hack VMS::6 > >>|>      http://www.pointsecure.com/Defconwhite.pdf( > >>|>   "Virtually Unhackable" DEFCON9:   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 07 May 2002 00:18:17 -0400n- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>a- Subject: Questions on the new structire at HPn, Message-ID: <3CD75578.DE46D3E5@videotron.ca>  @ While cycling tonight, I got to wonder about that new structure.  N Marcello is in charge of Alpha , Tru64 and VMS. There someone in charge of the, Tandem business, and one in charge of HP-UX.  D The wording of the memo I read mentioned something about "easing the9 transition to IA64 servers" as one of Mr Marcello's jobs.t  S *at this point in time* *with only that information at hand*, I am a bit concerned.   L The way I see it, HP created a "Legacy" department, put Marcello as its headR and gave him all the old digital stuff HP doesn't care about but can't get rid of.  K I am also concerned about a central marketing guy for all of the enterprise-H stuff. This means that if VMS wants to advertise but that conflicts with7 someone else's turf, VMS won't be allowed to advertise.-   I guess we'll see.  N Another interesting aspect of lumping all the old Digital stuff in one unit is9 perhaps a way to sell it to someone like mentec later on.e   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 07 May 2002 00:40:42 GMTn( From: Alder <PGDEHMKOKIMD@spammotel.com>& Subject: Remioving AS1000A front panel, Message-ID: <3CD72289.4020603@spammotel.com>   [NEWBIE ALERT]  H The AS1000A (pedestal model) I just got has a broken door lock I'd like A to fix, which will require that I remove the front panel.  After 8E removing the 3 screws located below the top-panel lock, I ran out of bD clues on how to proceed.  Can anyone help me find the hidden screws?   Many thanks,   Aldero   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 06 May 2002 18:38:50 GMTv* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>  Subject: Re: Revisionist historyA Message-ID: <_4AB8.106429$Lj.8149512@bin4.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>i  @ "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> wrote in message3 news:dtvB8.13$v65.362645@cacnews.cac.cpqcorp.net... C > David Froble wrote in message <3CD5E545.2050703@tsoft-inc.com>...h   ...   E > >> "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> wrote in messagea > >hG > >>>The decision was made to not stay in the CPU development business.p > >. > >CF > >Now this is a statement that cannot be argued with.  Many have seen throught > allaL > >the BS, and plainly Compaq didn't want to be in the CPU business, even if > they8 > >had and would continue to have the best in the world. > >r% > >But then one more rationalization:m > >t > >>>  SinceG > >>>Intel is in the CHIP business, and not in the system business - itw would @ > >>>seem to me to make much better sense than the alternatives. > >r > > J > >And as with every other rationalization that has come out of Compaq, as > seen< > >above, this one like all others cannot withstand reality. > >fK > >Why can't these people just come out and say that they didn't want to bee in > the>I > >chip business, and quit trying to justify their actions with any othert
 > reasons.J > >  There are no other reasons.  Treating their customers as if they were
 > gullableK > >idiots (not mentioning anyone specific) is almost, but not quite as bad,A as > >breaking commitments. > >  >  > What is the rationalization?  ) For Christ's sake, Fred - can't you read?E  K The 'one more rationalization' above was exactly what Dave quoted from your J post (it's still up there, so I won't reproduce it down here:  try readingH it this time).  And '... and not in the system business' was the portionI that, as with the other rationalizations, had difficulty standing up to aoG reality check (given that Intel is the primary white-box manufacturer).   L As had the 'EV8 was in trouble' rationalization (huff and puff all you want,F unless you can point to *existing* problems with its schedule then the? schedule was as solid as it ever was, and thus not a reason fore> discontinuing development efforts already planned and funded).  F As had the 'Alpha can't retain a sufficient performance lead to remain viable' rationalization.  H As had the 'Poor little Compaq can't afford continued Alpha development'K rationalization (doubly disgusting, since not only was Alpha profitable but I it was profitable *despite* Compaq's neglect and could have been far moree! profitable with any real effort).f   Sheesh.    - bill   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 06 May 2002 18:40:22 GMTs* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>  Subject: Re: Revisionist historyA Message-ID: <q6AB8.83235$Ii2.7473721@bin2.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>s  @ "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> wrote in message3 news:UBvB8.16$R65.376857@cacnews.cac.cpqcorp.net... J > Russell Wallace wrote in message <3cd6501c.339152210@news.eircom.net>...6 > >On Sun, 05 May 2002 20:44:47 GMT, "Fred Kleinsorge"' > ><kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> wrote:r > ><I > >>What does this mean?  Do you know any company that delegates critical.- > >>business decisions to "technology types"?  > > I > >No (except in the cases where the CEO is from a technical background).n > >e# > >>Several important technologistse& > >>were part of the decision process. > >tH > >However, AFAIK it was made for business reasons rather than technical' > >ones, as you yourself suggest below:a > >d > E > Most decisions in a business are business decisions, but it was not " > decoupled from technical advice.  G Indeed - it was just decoupled from competent and/or unbiased technical3 advice.a   - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 06 May 2002 15:00:16 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>I  Subject: Re: Revisionist history, Message-ID: <3CD6D2BE.7E5685BE@videotron.ca>   "Main, Kerry" wrote:E > However, while current releases of the IA-64 may be lacking in some I > area's, it remains to be seen if that will still be the case when latersD > IPF systems (especially in 2004/2005+ timeframe) become available.  L It is interesting to note that only Compaq/HP people are convinced enough of' this to actually defend Intel publicly.c  F > Remember that when the Alpha was first introduced, the initial Alpha7 > systems were slower than some of the big VAX systems.t  I But IA64 is designed to take on the big systems, not the small ones.  ThenJ problem with IA64 is that because it has a different EPIC philosophy, doesH anyone really know if/when Intel will ever be able to achieve impressive	 results ?a  L The first incarnation of Alpha may not have been the fastest, but there wereK clear signs that the Digital engineers had placed the foundations correctlyaM which would allow for considerable speedups because the architecture had beena carefully designed.a  N If Intel built IA64 on shaky foundations, no amount of proocess shrinkage willG make the *architecture* a big winner. Remember that competitors usually K benefit from the same process shrinkage speed bumps as Intel, so you cannot'6 count on IA64 gaining superiority through speed bumps.   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 06 May 2002 18:53:24 GMT * From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>  Subject: Re: Revisionist history@ Message-ID: <DiAB8.78195$q8.8262650@bin3.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>  5 "Russell Wallace" <spam@devnull.com> wrote in messagea* news:3cd6a222.360153179@news.eircom.net...   ....  B > What's the problem with building a 64-way SMP out of Hammers? OfG > course the on-chip glue logic won't do the job, you'd have to providepE > that as extra - but then, most SMP boxes people have built over thelB > years have had to provide the glue logic as extra; why is that a
 > problem?  G Oh, dear, I think I'll have to side with Fred on at least this specificmF point.  While I'm no hardware type, my suspicion is that the fact thatB Hammer integrates its memory controller on chip and integrates itsF inter-processor linkages on-chip means that any given Hammer's view ofL system-wide memory may well be limited to what it can see either directly orL thought its on-chip router.  So unless that routing mechanism is designed toH handle more than 8 (or perhaps 16, given that dual-core chips seem to beF planned) Hammer processors and their attached memory (and I don't knowJ whether that's the case, but if it is you might have expected them to haveI included such larger configurations in their presentations), extending ita- using off-chip mechanisms might be difficult.0  D Now, as I've said before, given likely Hammer performance in 2004, 8C dual-core Hammers would provide performance about equivalent to anynF 64-processor box you can buy today, which is not too shabby even if noG further expansion is possible.  And I've also suggested that the era of H very-high-processor-count homogenoeous systems may be drawing to a closeF (since IBM's POWER architecture is not unlike Hammer's in its apparentA expansion limits), to be supplanted by mid-count boards connectedn= big-blade-style with high-performance links into cluster-like K configurations.  But if neither of those makes Hammer high-end-competitive, J then they may have to extend the current architecture if they want to play there.   - bill   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 06 May 2002 19:00:21 GMTi* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>  Subject: Re: Revisionist historyA Message-ID: <9pAB8.83240$Ii2.7493744@bin2.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>   @ "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> wrote in message3 news:OmwB8.22$g75.400550@cacnews.cac.cpqcorp.net...aJ > Russell Wallace wrote in message <3cd68b82.354360014@news.eircom.net>...6 > >On Mon, 06 May 2002 13:34:37 GMT, "Fred Kleinsorge"' > ><kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> wrote:a > >aL > >>Russell Wallace wrote in message <3cd64d58.338443807@news.eircom.net>... > >>>,K > >>>Why do you think customers will pay large sums of money to switch to a-H > >>>chip that's slower than what they have already? (Serious question.) > >> > >>Anyone running a Sparc ;-) > >C	 > >*grin*n > >sF > >But if people wouldn't trade in their Sparcs for fast machines likeA > >Alpha and POWER, why do you expect them to trade in for a slow  > >machine?e > >  >sJ > Define "slow".  It's "slower" than Alpha and Power, but it isn't "slow".  K Actually, in the present incarnation (Merced) it *is* slow.  Perhaps you'reuG predicting (possibly even from direct experience) that if/when McKinleyoG appears that *it* won't be "slow", but the rest of us are going to waitcI until real evidence of that appears, since the expected performance range1H varies from SPARC-level on the low end to something intermediate betweenK SPARC and POWER4 on the high end:  I would characterize the former as still-J verging on slow, and while the latter may be acceptable the question stillH exists as to why Sun users who wouldn't switch to a significantly fasterL platform like Alpha would be at all tempted to switch to a mediocre platform like Itanic.   - bill   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 06 May 2002 19:38:06 GMTr* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>  Subject: Re: Revisionist history@ Message-ID: <xYAB8.78992$q8.8297101@bin3.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>  8 "Rob Young" <young_r@encompasserve.org> wrote in message- news:sSb9D8jHHE9I@eisner.encompasserve.org...aL > In article <3cd6a468.360735062@news.eircom.net>, spam@devnull.com (Russell Wallace) writes:4 > > On Mon, 6 May 2002 10:25:18 -0400, "Main, Kerry"" > > <Kerry.Main@Compaq.com> wrote: > > G > >>However, while current releases of the IA-64 may be lacking in someoK > >>area's, it remains to be seen if that will still be the case when later I > >>IPF systems (especially in 2004/2005+ timeframe) become available.=20= > >=H > > It's certainly true that if Intel keep pouring money into it, a 2005+ > > IA64 will be faster than the 2002 ones.. > > C > > But the same is true of the competition. Is there any reason to_J > > suppose the 2005 IA64 will look any better relative to its competition2 > > at that time, than the 2002 ones do right now?  G One reason is that Alpha will have started its relative decline in 2004yH (when EV8 would have kept it on top).  Though it'll still be faster thanG Itanic in 2004, even according to that recent ALL-IN-1 post from withinu Compaq.w  6 Another is the question of how well SPARC can keep up.  C A third is that McKinley, while it may be uninspiring, will be veryuL hard-pressed to be as uninspiring as Merced (which is all we have to compare to 'right now').  G A fourth is that by some time in 2005 the IA64 Chivano iteration *may*,hK while still likely using the by-then-pretty-tired McKinley core design, getoI the on-chip memory and MP glue that its competition has, or will have, int 2002.d  K OTOH, when Hammer arrives it will in all likelihood make McKinley look sickeK (in both performance *and* price, at the same time) - so that's movement in  the other direction.  I And my guess is that POWER will get its shrink before Madison arrives, so K that's another move the other way (though minor - less minor though if thatVI shrink allows POWER to place *4* cores on a chip - since one might assumeo that's their eventual intent).   > >r >e> > Yes.  Economies of scale which will help Intel stay on front > on the process side.  G Anyone who fabs seriously has to keep up their process technology:  anyrJ advantages tend to be *very* short-lived.  So the only real requirement isC the will to keep the processor design current with existing process3K technology:  Compaq hasn't shown such will, but IBM seems to have plenty ofr it.f   > ? > Since IA64 will be able to be made in the same foundries that-C > are making IA32, it wouldn't be unreasonable to assume IA64 won't D > lag more than a process generation behind IA32.  That is one major > bonus.  I No bonus at all:  anyone else who cares about their processors will be in  exactly the same place.o  8   The second major bonus is the horrific cost to stay onG > the bleeding edge.  While IBM is successful in almost everything theyeF > do, they took a hit in storage and cpus at last financial statement.= > Never to be idle, IBM tossed their storage over the wall tot
 > Hitachi.  I No more than Digital tossed its 'storage' to Quantum:  in both cases, all=I that went was commodity-component development, while the profitable areasY stayed.   0   So IBM is left with one "loss leader" in CPUs.  3 Just like Alpha was a loss-leader for Compaq.  Not.   	   We willn? > see how long even the mighty IBM hangs onto CPU manufacturingrF > when the cost of a fab starts hitting $5-$10 billion U.S. and above.  L Should it wish to get rid of its fab capabilities (though they have stood itJ in extremely good stead over the years), it won't have any trouble finding+ eager and capable partners in the Far East.    > ; > IBM certainly doesn't have the volumes... sound familiar?   = Yeah - same bullshit Compaq was trying to shovel about Alpha.-   - bill   ------------------------------  $ Date: Mon, 6 May 2002 12:36:48 -0700# From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com>l  Subject: RE: Revisionist history9 Message-ID: <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIAELDEOAA.tom@kednos.com>r   >-----Original Message-----i0 >From: Bill Todd [mailto:billtodd@metrocast.net]$ >Sent: Monday, May 06, 2002 12:38 PM >To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com! >Subject: Re: Revisionist historyd >e >  >e9 >"Rob Young" <young_r@encompasserve.org> wrote in messageo. >news:sSb9D8jHHE9I@eisner.encompasserve.org...3 >> In article <3cd6a468.360735062@news.eircom.net>,d >spam@devnull.com (Russell >Wallace) writes:t5 >> > On Mon, 6 May 2002 10:25:18 -0400, "Main, Kerry"e# >> > <Kerry.Main@Compaq.com> wrote:l >> >H >> >>However, while current releases of the IA-64 may be lacking in someL >> >>area's, it remains to be seen if that will still be the case when laterJ >> >>IPF systems (especially in 2004/2005+ timeframe) become available.=20 >> >I >> > It's certainly true that if Intel keep pouring money into it, a 2005r, >> > IA64 will be faster than the 2002 ones. >> >D >> > But the same is true of the competition. Is there any reason toK >> > suppose the 2005 IA64 will look any better relative to its competitionr3 >> > at that time, than the 2002 ones do right now?n >eH >One reason is that Alpha will have started its relative decline in 2004I >(when EV8 would have kept it on top).  Though it'll still be faster than-H >Itanic in 2004, even according to that recent ALL-IN-1 post from within >Compaq. >i7 >Another is the question of how well SPARC can keep up.H > D >A third is that McKinley, while it may be uninspiring, will be veryB >hard-pressed to be as uninspiring as Merced (which is all we have >to compareu >to 'right now').o >nH >A fourth is that by some time in 2005 the IA64 Chivano iteration *may*,L >while still likely using the by-then-pretty-tired McKinley core design, getJ >the on-chip memory and MP glue that its competition has, or will have, in >2002. > L >OTOH, when Hammer arrives it will in all likelihood make McKinley look sickL >(in both performance *and* price, at the same time) - so that's movement in >the other direction.e >oJ >And my guess is that POWER will get its shrink before Madison arrives, soL >that's another move the other way (though minor - less minor though if thatJ >shrink allows POWER to place *4* cores on a chip - since one might assume >that's their eventual intent).n >e >> > >>? >> Yes.  Economies of scale which will help Intel stay on fronte >> on the process side.  >eH >Anyone who fabs seriously has to keep up their process technology:  anyK >advantages tend to be *very* short-lived.  So the only real requirement is:D >the will to keep the processor design current with existing processL >technology:  Compaq hasn't shown such will, but IBM seems to have plenty of >it. >o >>@ >> Since IA64 will be able to be made in the same foundries thatD >> are making IA32, it wouldn't be unreasonable to assume IA64 won'tE >> lag more than a process generation behind IA32.  That is one majord	 >> bonus.  >aJ >No bonus at all:  anyone else who cares about their processors will be in >exactly the same place. >l9 >  The second major bonus is the horrific cost to stay onhH >> the bleeding edge.  While IBM is successful in almost everything theyG >> do, they took a hit in storage and cpus at last financial statement.s> >> Never to be idle, IBM tossed their storage over the wall to >> Hitachi.s > J >No more than Digital tossed its 'storage' to Quantum:  in both cases, allJ >that went was commodity-component development, while the profitable areas >stayed. >i1 >  So IBM is left with one "loss leader" in CPUs.w >i4 >Just like Alpha was a loss-leader for Compaq.  Not. >e
 >  We will@ >> see how long even the mighty IBM hangs onto CPU manufacturingG >> when the cost of a fab starts hitting $5-$10 billion U.S. and above.i >h? >Should it wish to get rid of its fab capabilities (though they> >have stood itK >in extremely good stead over the years), it won't have any trouble finding , >eager and capable partners in the Far East.  B Well, don't forget that many companies outsource their fab to IBM.   >a >>< >> IBM certainly doesn't have the volumes... sound familiar? >e> >Yeah - same bullshit Compaq was trying to shovel about Alpha. >c >- billn >a >h >t >---' >Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.i; >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).tA >Version: 6.0.351 / Virus Database: 197 - Release Date: 4/19/2002o >s ---f& Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.: Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).@ Version: 6.0.351 / Virus Database: 197 - Release Date: 4/19/2002   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 06 May 2002 19:45:18 GMTi* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>  Subject: Re: Revisionist historyA Message-ID: <i3BB8.107200$Lj.8198469@bin4.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>i  : "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message& news:3CD6D2BE.7E5685BE@videotron.ca... > "Main, Kerry" wrote:G > > However, while current releases of the IA-64 may be lacking in somenK > > area's, it remains to be seen if that will still be the case when laterfF > > IPF systems (especially in 2004/2005+ timeframe) become available. >lK > It is interesting to note that only Compaq/HP people are convinced enough  of) > this to actually defend Intel publicly.e  L Well, no one else is as desperately dependent on Itanic - not even Intel, if0 it really has Yamhill warming up in the bullpen.  L The other interesting thing is that AFAICT only Compaq is vigorously toutingL some major improvement(s) in the situation in 2005/6 (well, they're actuallyD saying as early as 2004, but we already know from Intel that this isL rubbish) - based (again, AFAICT) on the presumption that the Alpha team willI be able to rescue Itanic starting at about that time.  One can understandcH why Compaq would be anxious to grasp at any such straw but - lacking anyA indication whatsoever from Intel about what improvements might begF forthcoming that far out or just when they might appear - placing much9 credence in such rosy suggestions would seem a bit naive.6   - bill   ------------------------------  " Date: Mon, 6 May 2002 19:49:58 GMT- From: Terry C Shannon <shannon@world.std.com>e  Subject: Re: Revisionist historyD Message-ID: <Pine.SGI.4.30.0205061545340.14156-100000@world.std.com>  # On Mon, 6 May 2002, JF Mezei wrote:N   > "Main, Kerry" wrote:G > > However, while current releases of the IA-64 may be lacking in some K > > area's, it remains to be seen if that will still be the case when laterIF > > IPF systems (especially in 2004/2005+ timeframe) become available. >oN > It is interesting to note that only Compaq/HP people are convinced enough of) > this to actually defend Intel publicly.t >n    I INTC doesn't make a habit of commenting in this newsgroup, and INTC woulde) be in the best position to defend itself.-    J I doubt that we'll see a vigorous defense from Andrew Harrison or from his counterparts at IBN.    H > > Remember that when the Alpha was first introduced, the initial Alpha9 > > systems were slower than some of the big VAX systems.r >aK > But IA64 is designed to take on the big systems, not the small ones.  ThetL > problem with IA64 is that because it has a different EPIC philosophy, doesJ > anyone really know if/when Intel will ever be able to achieve impressive > results ?e >n    D Apparently not. Chances are, anyone who knew for certain wouldn't be spending their time on Usenet.  N > The first incarnation of Alpha may not have been the fastest, but there wereM > clear signs that the Digital engineers had placed the foundations correctlynO > which would allow for considerable speedups because the architecture had beeno > carefully designed.I >lP > If Intel built IA64 on shaky foundations, no amount of proocess shrinkage willI > make the *architecture* a big winner. Remember that competitors usuallygM > benefit from the same process shrinkage speed bumps as Intel, so you cannots8 > count on IA64 gaining superiority through speed bumps. >l   This is indeed true.   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 06 May 2002 19:56:51 GMTa( From: spam@devnull.com (Russell Wallace)  Subject: Re: Revisionist history0 Message-ID: <3cd6df53.375820754@news.eircom.net>  F On Mon, 06 May 2002 18:53:24 GMT, "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote:  H >Oh, dear, I think I'll have to side with Fred on at least this specificG >point.  While I'm no hardware type, my suspicion is that the fact that C >Hammer integrates its memory controller on chip and integrates itsRG >inter-processor linkages on-chip means that any given Hammer's view of3M >system-wide memory may well be limited to what it can see either directly orM >thought its on-chip router.  > Ah, so the on-chip glue is helpful up to the 8-chip limit, but< actively gets in the way after that? Okay, that makes sense.  E >Now, as I've said before, given likely Hammer performance in 2004, 8tD >dual-core Hammers would provide performance about equivalent to anyG >64-processor box you can buy today, which is not too shabby even if no  >further expansion is possible.a   True.e  ( >And I've also suggested that the era ofI >very-high-processor-count homogenoeous systems may be drawing to a closetG >(since IBM's POWER architecture is not unlike Hammer's in its apparent B >expansion limits), to be supplanted by mid-count boards connected> >big-blade-style with high-performance links into cluster-like >configurations.  A *nod* I don't know enough about the relevant issues to comment onn? that, apart from agreeing that it's an interesting possibility.   ; >But if neither of those makes Hammer high-end-competitive,eK >then they may have to extend the current architecture if they want to playo >there.e  E Alternatively, perhaps Yamhill might end up being a good solution forr large SMP boxes.   -- c3 "Mercy to the guilty is treachery to the innocent."b! http://www.esatclear.ie/~rwallacev mail:rw(at)eircom(dot)net    ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 06 May 2002 20:10:13 GMTo* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>  Subject: Re: Revisionist historyA Message-ID: <FqBB8.83256$Ii2.7547924@bin2.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>,  5 "Russell Wallace" <spam@devnull.com> wrote in messaged* news:3cd6df53.375820754@news.eircom.net...H > On Mon, 06 May 2002 18:53:24 GMT, "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> > wrote:   ...h  = > >But if neither of those makes Hammer high-end-competitive,tH > >then they may have to extend the current architecture if they want to play	 > >there.2 >MG > Alternatively, perhaps Yamhill might end up being a good solution forh > large SMP boxes.  L Well, I guess the silver lining of being late to market with Yamhill and (atK least at a guess) *not* having the kinds of on-chip glue that Hammer has iscL that by the time such Yamhill on-chip glue could materialize, it'll be a lot2 clearer what its expansion capabilities should be.  J Meanwhile, I'm curious to see how 8-processor Hammers may stack up againstI larger boxes of processors with approximately equivalent core performance,H (which one might expect from Yamhill) but without the glue:  my guess isF that up to 8 processors Hammer will have a decisive lead in real-worldJ performance, but for some larger number of processors Yamhill should catchE up with the 8-P Hammer boxes (assuming Yamhill has an at least decentpK inter-processor interconnect:  3GIO may be a good choice and might even get G incorporated on-chip, but my impression is that it won't be ready for at while yet).c   - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 06 May 2002 18:28:14 -0400g( From: David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>  Subject: Re: Revisionist history, Message-ID: <3CD7037E.3070702@tsoft-inc.com>   Fred Kleinsorge wrote:    K > When you go out to buy a car, is it's top speed, or it's 0-60 performanceRJ > the only qualification?  If that was everyone's criteria, most car linesM > would go out of business.  We'd all be driving Corvette's, Z8's, Ferrari's,d > etc.     I'll go for that.  :-)  H > You probably buy a system based on it being able to run what you need,K > perform at a level which meets (or exceeds) your needs, and which has them@ > lowest price -- of course, that ignores "loyalty" to a vendor.    R Oh my Fred!  There could still be loyalty to DEC, but Compaq?  How can I say this?  $ C O M M I T M E N T !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  S Oops, Compaq (RIP) doesn't know the meaning of that word, I shouldn't confuse them.r  Q Any loyalty is to VMS, not the current owners of the OS.  This is a valid thing,  Q and a part of why many of us are still here.  But for many, it's been tough, and c1 there has been plenty of attrition along the way."  L In any case, DEC and Compaq are both now history.  I'm willing to give HP a < chance to prove itself.  (Not sure how the MPE people feel.)    K > If IA64 has the software you need, be it VMS, HP-UX, or Windows - and the L > related 3rd party software.  Has the performance you need, and has a lowerJ > price than the competition - then it would seem to me to be a reasonable > choice to consider.   I I'll agree.  Could you tell me again when we'll see these 'lower prices'?n     Dave   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 06 May 2002 18:08:15 -0400 ( From: David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>  Subject: Re: Revisionist history, Message-ID: <3CD6FECF.2080802@tsoft-inc.com>   Fred Kleinsorge wrote:  C > David Froble wrote in message <3CD5E545.2050703@tsoft-inc.com>...a >  >>John Smith wrote:L >> >>G >>>Intel is the largest 'white box' server manufacturer/supplier in thea >>>business. >>>r >>>tC >>>"Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> wrote in messaged >>>eF >>>>The decision was made to not stay in the CPU development business. >>>> >>M >>Now this is a statement that cannot be argued with.  Many have seen throught >> > allu > K >>the BS, and plainly Compaq didn't want to be in the CPU business, even ifM >> > they > 7 >>had and would continue to have the best in the world.H >>$ >>But then one more rationalization: >> >>
 >>>> SinceL >>>>Intel is in the CHIP business, and not in the system business - it would? >>>>seem to me to make much better sense than the alternatives.t >>>> >>I >>And as with every other rationalization that has come out of Compaq, as  >> > seen > ; >>above, this one like all others cannot withstand reality.p >>M >>Why can't these people just come out and say that they didn't want to be inn >> > thea > H >>chip business, and quit trying to justify their actions with any other >>
 > reasons. > H >> There are no other reasons.  Treating their customers as if they were >>
 > gullable > M >>idiots (not mentioning anyone specific) is almost, but not quite as bad, ast >>breaking commitments.  >> >> > N > What is the rationalization?  If you decide that you don't want to be in theM > CPU business, then the next step is to see if there is someone who wants ton< > take over or at least partner with you to supply the chip,    P Yep, and there are/were three (3) such entities.  Intel, Samsung, and IBM.  Was I there any consideration of having any of these 3 continue with the Alpha oN research and design?  I'm guessing not.  There are/were incentives for any of L them to do so.  First would be the Alpha design team.  And never forget the L compiler talent.  The CPU manufacturer would get some top notch talent, and E would get paid to FAB CPUs.  Hey, isn't that the business they're in?t  M Is there any evidence that Compaq would have continued to use Alpha, if they pN could get out of the R&D end of things?  I'd be greatly surprised if there is J any.  Compaq not only wanted out of the chip business, they wanted out of & anything but 'me too' type of systems.   > and failing that,sM > then who's CPU's you will use in your systems.  While IBM makes a find CPU,nI > it is also a major systems competetor.  Sparc is a non-starter.  x86-64g- > isn't positioned for the enterprise server.v    P Ok, lets look at this with an open mind.  (In other words, not the Compaq way.) Q   Sure, IBM has divisions that mfg and sell systems.  So does Sun and Intel.  If hP the remark about Intel being the world's leader in selling 'white box' systems, Q then they'd be the last of those mentioned you'd want to choose, simply from the oP numbers.  Did Compaq have any problems getting the IBM FAB people to supply the M copper Alpha chips?  Was there any sign of their trying to cripple Compaq by aQ withholding production?  I doubt it.  The IBM FAB people have to make money, and vO you don't do that by stiffing your customers.  I'm willing to bet that the IBM @Q people would have listened to Compaq if asked to take over the R&D of Alpha.  It .@ sure wouldn't hurt their own projects to have additional talent.  B I'd agree, Sun doesn't have a FAB, and that's part of the package.  O Did anybody talk to AMD?  Yeah, I seem to remember that there was a prior deal hN with AMD, where they didn't live up to their end of things.  I don't know the 2 deal, or any details, so I cannot comment on such.  N Intel is suppost to be a source for Alpha CPUs.  If they are so good, why not Q have them continue making Alphas?  A better deal, if one was desired, could have >8 been discussed.  I seriously doubt that one was desired.   > Intel is the leading CPU > provider in the world,    Q If you're talking quantity.  Brian has a saying concerning 50 million flies, and a' not agreeing with their choice of meal.n  , > and has a 64-bit CPU that can scale to the
 > enterprise,i     That's yet to be proved.  # > and which they are firmly behind.'    9 So far, but Compaq was firmly behind Alpha, weren't they?a   > Is it as good as Power orh > Alpha - not yet.    P Oh, so now we're down to picking losers?  How well do you do at the track?  The  bookies must love you.  < > But Intel, who is in the business of selling chips and not
 > systems,    Q Whoa, what about them being the largers 'white box' vendor in the world?  Are we 5I going to pick and choose our facts to fit the reality we want to project?r  E > would seem to be a good choice of vendor, and IA64 is their CPU fort > enterprise computing.w    P So far, I'll let some time answer that one.  But if I went to the track, I'd be  looking at Hammer real hard.  5 > On the non-VMS front, it dovetails with IA32 as them< > desktop and small server side - running all the same OS's.  D I'll concede that.  Intel is an IA32 mfg.  Not sure what that means.     Dave   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 06 May 2002 18:17:47 -0400 ( From: David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>  Subject: Re: Revisionist history, Message-ID: <3CD7010B.4070700@tsoft-inc.com>   Bill Todd wrote:  7 > "Russell Wallace" <spam@devnull.com> wrote in message , > news:3cd6a222.360153179@news.eircom.net... >  > ...a >  > B >>What's the problem with building a 64-way SMP out of Hammers? OfG >>course the on-chip glue logic won't do the job, you'd have to providesE >>that as extra - but then, most SMP boxes people have built over theeB >>years have had to provide the glue logic as extra; why is that a
 >>problem? >> > I > Oh, dear, I think I'll have to side with Fred on at least this specificgH > point.  While I'm no hardware type, my suspicion is that the fact thatD > Hammer integrates its memory controller on chip and integrates itsH > inter-processor linkages on-chip means that any given Hammer's view ofN > system-wide memory may well be limited to what it can see either directly orN > thought its on-chip router.  So unless that routing mechanism is designed toJ > handle more than 8 (or perhaps 16, given that dual-core chips seem to beH > planned) Hammer processors and their attached memory (and I don't knowL > whether that's the case, but if it is you might have expected them to haveK > included such larger configurations in their presentations), extending it"/ > using off-chip mechanisms might be difficult.r    M Ok, if you were AMD, and a major player like Sun came to you and wanted your CQ product, but only if larger processor counts could be done, regardless if it was aP on chip of off chip, what would you be saying?  I know that if the numbers were ! right, I'd be saying 'sign here'.d    F > Now, as I've said before, given likely Hammer performance in 2004, 8E > dual-core Hammers would provide performance about equivalent to anyrH > 64-processor box you can buy today, which is not too shabby even if noI > further expansion is possible.  And I've also suggested that the era ofbJ > very-high-processor-count homogenoeous systems may be drawing to a closeH > (since IBM's POWER architecture is not unlike Hammer's in its apparentC > expansion limits), to be supplanted by mid-count boards connected ? > big-blade-style with high-performance links into cluster-like-M > configurations.  But if neither of those makes Hammer high-end-competitive,-L > then they may have to extend the current architecture if they want to play > there.    N And by introducing the Hammer, it's clear to me they do indeed "want to play".   Dave   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 07 May 2002 00:35:04 GMTe* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>  Subject: Re: Revisionist historyA Message-ID: <YiFB8.85488$Ii2.7792286@bin2.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>r  5 "David Froble" <davef@tsoft-inc.com> wrote in message & news:3CD7010B.4070700@tsoft-inc.com...   ...   I > Ok, if you were AMD, and a major player like Sun came to you and wanted  yourK > product, but only if larger processor counts could be done, regardless ifd it wasL > on chip of off chip, what would you be saying?  I know that if the numbers were# > right, I'd be saying 'sign here'.t  L Well, there's the small matter of the minimum 3-year latency between getting= the signature and getting a changed architecture to market...m  A My point was that I haven't a clue how hard extending Hammer's MPy; architecture would be.  If it's *designed* into the in-coretD memory-addressing facilities that no more than N memory segments areK addressable or into the on-chip routers that no more than 8 or 16 processorcL addresses exist, then nothing you can do off-chip is likely to be effective:L you've got to change the on-chip architecture, and that takes some real time) to do even if you have lots of incentive.y   >t >pH > > Now, as I've said before, given likely Hammer performance in 2004, 8G > > dual-core Hammers would provide performance about equivalent to any J > > 64-processor box you can buy today, which is not too shabby even if noK > > further expansion is possible.  And I've also suggested that the era oflL > > very-high-processor-count homogenoeous systems may be drawing to a closeJ > > (since IBM's POWER architecture is not unlike Hammer's in its apparentE > > expansion limits), to be supplanted by mid-count boards connectedeA > > big-blade-style with high-performance links into cluster-likei9 > > configurations.  But if neither of those makes Hammer  high-end-competitive,oI > > then they may have to extend the current architecture if they want tok play
 > > there. >n >nI > And by introducing the Hammer, it's clear to me they do indeed "want to- play".  L It's not at all clear that AMD wanted to play *there*, though, 'there' beingK the real high end (somewhere North of a maxed-out current GS box, where SGIeI made a real name for itself and Sun manages to do OK despite SPARC).  AMD G clearly had its eye somewhere above low-end servers, but whether it had.F anything above the upper-mid-range in mind is a lot more questionable:L that's niche territory requiring real system expertise, and AMD has at least6 up until now been strictly a volume, commodity player.  H That Hammer seems to have a shot there now is largely due to a series ofK flukes:  Alpha is going away, Itanic is sinking, and Hammer itself actuallyrG seems to be materializing largely as advertised - not as far behind itsnI schedule as its competition is behind theirs, and with really respectablehK performance.  Given that the real high end has *very* little sensitivity toyK per-processor prices, AMD could not reasonably, back when the design firmed L up a couple of years ago, have had any real expectation of being competitiveJ there, and the current 8-chip apparent design max appears to reflect that.   - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 06 May 2002 14:50:06 -0400-- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>a* Subject: Re: Sayonara DS10, new org charts, Message-ID: <3CD6D05D.16EE5253@videotron.ca>   Bill Todd wrote:) > http://www.theinquirer.net/06050204.htm5    J Interesting that thew new DS20 has a SCISI controller  with a mention "for Linux only".  / Can anyone care to explain what this is about ?e   ------------------------------  $ Date: Mon, 6 May 2002 13:54:52 -05001 From: "Dave Gudewicz" <david.gudewicz@abbott.com>t* Subject: Re: Sayonara DS10, new org charts8 Message-ID: <ab6jlv$kfq$1@fizban.fizban.pprd.abbott.com>  : "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message& news:3CD6D05D.16EE5253@videotron.ca... > Bill Todd wrote:+ > > http://www.theinquirer.net/06050204.htmn >e >yL > Interesting that thew new DS20 has a SCISI controller  with a mention "for > Linux only". >e1 > Can anyone care to explain what this is about ?o   ------------------------------  $ Date: Mon, 6 May 2002 13:55:04 -05001 From: "Dave Gudewicz" <david.gudewicz@abbott.com>i* Subject: Re: Sayonara DS10, new org charts8 Message-ID: <ab6jmb$kfr$1@fizban.fizban.pprd.abbott.com>  : "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message& news:3CD6D05D.16EE5253@videotron.ca... > Bill Todd wrote:+ > > http://www.theinquirer.net/06050204.htmo >s >nL > Interesting that thew new DS20 has a SCISI controller  with a mention "for > Linux only". > 1 > Can anyone care to explain what this is about ?m   ------------------------------   Date: 6 May 2002 18:58:25 GMTi1 From: "Dave Gudewicz" <david.gudewicz@abbott.com>h* Subject: Re: Sayonara DS10, new org charts8 Message-ID: <ab6joh$kim$1@fizban.fizban.pprd.abbott.com>   ------------------------------   Date: 6 May 2002 18:58:37 GMTl1 From: "Dave Gudewicz" <david.gudewicz@abbott.com> * Subject: Re: Sayonara DS10, new org charts8 Message-ID: <ab6jot$kin$1@fizban.fizban.pprd.abbott.com>   ------------------------------   Date: 6 May 2002 19:00:08 GMT11 From: "Dave Gudewicz" <david.gudewicz@abbott.com> * Subject: Re: Sayonara DS10, new org charts8 Message-ID: <ab6jro$kit$1@fizban.fizban.pprd.abbott.com>   ------------------------------   Date: 6 May 2002 19:00:19 GMTd1 From: "Dave Gudewicz" <david.gudewicz@abbott.com>2* Subject: Re: Sayonara DS10, new org charts8 Message-ID: <ab6js3$kiu$1@fizban.fizban.pprd.abbott.com>   ------------------------------   Date: 6 May 2002 19:00:28 GMTn1 From: "Dave Gudewicz" <david.gudewicz@abbott.com> * Subject: Re: Sayonara DS10, new org charts8 Message-ID: <ab6jsc$kiv$1@fizban.fizban.pprd.abbott.com>   ------------------------------  $ Date: Mon, 6 May 2002 14:04:42 -05001 From: "Dave Gudewicz" <david.gudewicz@abbott.com>s* Subject: Re: Sayonara DS10, new org charts8 Message-ID: <ab6k6j$kj7$1@fizban.fizban.pprd.abbott.com>  G That's DS20L and wasn't there an Alpha announced that was meant for thelK telecommunications industry which led to much wailing and gnashing of teethx here.r  I Just hope this doesn't turn out to be another white-box (NT only) server.p Remember that one?   Dave...h  : "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message& news:3CD6D05D.16EE5253@videotron.ca... > Bill Todd wrote:+ > > http://www.theinquirer.net/06050204.htmh >p >tL > Interesting that thew new DS20 has a SCISI controller  with a mention "for > Linux only". >31 > Can anyone care to explain what this is about ?p   ------------------------------  $ Date: Mon, 6 May 2002 17:31:06 -0400( From: "Mike Foley" <mike-spam@yelof.com>* Subject: Re: Sayonara DS10, new org charts/ Message-ID: <uddtgr9u8h6f34@corp.supernews.com>   A     The DS20L is based on the (former) API NetWorks CS20. I don't-:     know what's changed besides the bezel and probably theD     box/power supply, but the CS20 had a SCSI controller that wasn't     supported on Tru64.s  I     One of the interesting things was that the scsi controller was on theeC     PCI riser card (which used a Slot-B connector because a. we had =     plenty, b. we knew the specs). I thought that when CompaquD     bought the license for the CS20 (as the DS20L) that they'd use a      new riser card. I guess not!  A     I got laid off from API in August 2001 so I have no clue whatr     happened after that.  ?                                         Still looking for work,    mike  : "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message& news:3CD6D05D.16EE5253@videotron.ca... > Bill Todd wrote:+ > > http://www.theinquirer.net/06050204.htmi >  >iL > Interesting that thew new DS20 has a SCISI controller  with a mention "for > Linux only". >h1 > Can anyone care to explain what this is about ?    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 06 May 2002 14:40:16 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>E0 Subject: Re: SKC Morphs Again... We're Now SKHPC, Message-ID: <3CD6CE0F.7CD91300@videotron.ca>   Fred Kleinsorge wrote:9 > We'll see.  The next few months may give an indication.c     NO !  M Carly has told everyone that there would be a very clear and detailed roadmap F available within days of the signing of the deal. We have waited since; September 7th to find out what the hell will happen to VMS.o  J She must first divulge a clear roadmap. Then the next few months will showM whether she really means it or not, and the next few quarters will also so ifrM the various games of musical chairs that will happen will change that roadmap- or not..   ------------------------------  " Date: Mon, 6 May 2002 18:44:46 GMT- From: Terry C Shannon <shannon@world.std.com>n0 Subject: Re: SKC Morphs Again... We're Now SKHPCD Message-ID: <Pine.SGI.4.30.0205061442220.19812-100000@world.std.com>  # On Mon, 6 May 2002, JF Mezei wrote:n   > Fred Kleinsorge wrote:; > > We'll see.  The next few months may give an indication.o >t >> > NO ! > O > Carly has told everyone that there would be a very clear and detailed roadmap>H > available within days of the signing of the deal. We have waited since= > September 7th to find out what the hell will happen to VMS.> >eL > She must first divulge a clear roadmap. Then the next few months will showO > whether she really means it or not, and the next few quarters will also so if O > the various games of musical chairs that will happen will change that roadmapb	 > or not.n >i  G There is nothing in the new org charts (those that have materialized to A date) that would indicate one iota of change for OpenVMS. Roadmap> continues unchanged.  E If there was a Big Change planned, would HPQ be inviting customers toTE Marvel prebriefings that include VMS information through the month of>	 November?e   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 06 May 2002 14:32:18 -0700 % From: Dean Woodward <deanw@rdrop.com> 0 Subject: Re: SKC Morphs Again... We're Now SKHPC) Message-ID: <3CD6F662.A0150427@rdrop.com>    Terry C Shannon wrote: > G > If there was a Big Change planned, would HPQ be inviting customers toeG > Marvel prebriefings that include VMS information through the month ofh > November?n  A Mu.  Corporations love to play the secrecy game.  Did Compaq stopfF announcing roadmaps for Alpha before the Alphacide, even though it was4 apparently a done deal well before the announcement?   ------------------------------  " Date: Mon, 6 May 2002 23:09:41 GMT- From: Terry C Shannon <shannon@world.std.com>m0 Subject: Re: SKC Morphs Again... We're Now SKHPCD Message-ID: <Pine.SGI.4.30.0205061905271.27402-100000@world.std.com>  ( On Mon, 6 May 2002, Dean Woodward wrote:   > Terry C Shannon wrote: > >tI > > If there was a Big Change planned, would HPQ be inviting customers tonI > > Marvel prebriefings that include VMS information through the month of'
 > > November?  >tC > Mu.  Corporations love to play the secrecy game.  Did Compaq stop H > announcing roadmaps for Alpha before the Alphacide, even though it was6 > apparently a done deal well before the announcement? >d  D They sure as heck were still touting Alpha a year ago today. I know,; because I participated CPQ briefings in Europe at the time.i  J What CPQ was *not* doing was issuing invitations to Alpha events scheduled' to take place six months down the road.l  D Whatever, I wouldn't be overly worried about HPQ's impact on the VMSJ roadmap. I have told my subscribers that I anticipate no change whatsoeverF to the roadmap. VMS on Marvel will happen. VMS on IPF will happen. TheG only concern I have is the level of investment HPQ maintains in the OS,i and in the marketing thereof.e   ------------------------------   Date: 6 May 2002 16:13:53 -0700s( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski). Subject: Slowaris cert advisory #????? Andrew?= Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0205061513.5d9da6cb@posting.google.com>o  : well, Andrew, what is the count now for Slowaris certs ...- let's compare them to vms ... no comparision!   I http://www.crn.com/sections/BreakingNews/breakingnews.asp?ArticleID=35061e  F  A vulnerability affecting Sun Microsystems' Solaris operating systemE could allow an attacker to execute code and consume system resources, D according to an advisory released by the CERT Coordination Center atB Carnegie Mellon University. The flaw, which affects Solaris 2.5.1,C 2.6, 7 and 8, is a format string vulnerability in a utility used toeB listen for remote wall requests on the network, CERT said. Sun was- developing patches for the problem last week.    ------------------------------  $ Date: Mon, 6 May 2002 11:11:27 -0700# From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> ! Subject: RE: SMTP Usage Filter...h9 Message-ID: <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIAEKNEOAA.tom@kednos.com>d  6 FREJA> more sys$sysdevice:[sys0.tcpip$smtp]smtp.configI Good-Clients:   XX.XX.XX.0/24 !This restricts relay to machines on MY LANwK !!!  Just keep adding to the list below, <TAB> at beginning is continuationeG Bad-Clients: 200.283.124.11, 208.187.141.234,202.175.3.37,61.96.18.132,a0         61.156.9.5, 213.154.130.195,209.123.16.9 !!!Relay-Zones: dec.com, !!!        digital.com,  !!!        compaq.com = !!!RBLs: rbl.maps.vix.com, dul.maps.vix.com, relays.orbs.org,o mr-out.imrss.org' RBLs: relays.orbs.org, sbl.spamhaus.orgP !!!Relay-Based-On-Mx: TRUE$ !!!Reject-Unbacktranslatable-IP:TRUE" Reject-Unbacktranslatable-IP:FALSE$ !!!Accept-Unqualified-Senders:  TRUE$ !!!Accept-Unresolvable-Domains: TRUE? !!!Reject-Mail-From: *.xyz.com, known.spammer@*, *the_internet*uJ !!!Accept-Mail-From: *@notabadguy.xyz.com, the_internet_news@somehwere.com SPAM-Action: OPCOM Security: SECURE< Unbacktranslatable-IP-Text:     Can't verify your IP addressH Bad-Clients-Text:               Message rejected, SPAM has been received from yo  ur site.L         If you feel this is an error, send mail from another site indicating the@	  problem.>D Client-In-RBL-Text:             I Spotted you in an RBL. SPAMBREATH!> Reject-Mail-From-Text:          Haven't you SPAMmed me before?H Unqualified-Sender-Text:        MAIL FROM who? You've got to be kidding.< Unresolvable-Domain-Text:       MAIL FROM where? Yeah right.E SPAM-Relay-Text: Trying to launch your SPAM from my site will get youc nowhere.  K This is what I have.  Using Reject-Unbacktranslatable-IP is too restrictiveF asK others have pointed out, so you need to turn it off.  Permitting relay, butn limitingK it to the Good-Clients list prevents you being used aas an open relay site.s
 Of course,L if you addresses in that list outside of your LAN then if one of those is an
 open relay& you will be just a bent pipe for them.      I have the following in my loginG $ stopsmtp=="@SYS$SYSDEVICE:[VMS$COMMON.SYSMGR]TCPIP$SMTP_SHUTDOWN.COM" G $ startsmtp=="@SYS$SYSDEVICE:[VMS$COMMON.SYSMGR]TCPIP$SMTP_STARTUP.COM"H  L to facilitate quickly adding offenders to the list  (probably overkill since it doesn't happen often)     >-----Original Message----- 0 >From: Don Sykes [mailto:annonymous@pacbell.net]$ >Sent: Monday, May 06, 2002 10:47 AM >To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com" >Subject: Re: SMTP Usage Filter... >d >m >r >a >Rob Young wrote:o >>8 >> In article <3CD304CE.E854D469@pacbell.net>, Don Sykes! ><annonymous@pacbell.net> writes:  >> > >> > My Knowledgeable Friends,> >> > In response to an email attack recently (using me as mail >bouncer), I set up an# >> > smtp.config file and entered :e- >> >       Reject-Unbacktranslatable-IP: TRUEc@ >> > I now notice far less junk mail and no new attacks. And I'm >still getting somec? >> > good mail, but I'm also rejecting about 10-20 emails/hr ass >"unbacktranslatable".? >> > My question is could this setting cause "good" email to beo >blocked as well?m@ >> > Put another way: is there ever a VALID reason why a port 25 >request would cometC >> > from an IP that can't be translated back to its sender domain?  >> > >> >>         Short answer, yes.e >>D >>         The key is to block email that isn't headed to your site.: >>         The Multinet SMTP_REJECT entry looks like this: >> >> !B >> ! Disallow relaying through our mailer, and only allow users on
 >our networkst0 >> ! to claim to be from our company (blech.com) >> !? >> !  Wildcards can be used in FROM_USER, FROM_IP, and TO_USER.  >> !5 >> !FROM_USER    FROM_IP       TO_USER         ACTION> >> !0 >> *             *             *blech.com      n0 >> *blech.com    199.99.*      *               n0 >> *             199.99.*      *               n= >> *@*           *             *@*             q "no relayingf >through this site"m@ >> *             *             *@*             y "missing domain >name in MAIL FROM"s >>F >>         Note that third entry , the ACTION is "q".  Quietly reject. >>I >>         So weasels that are attempting to relay through your site willgL >>         hit that rule.  Elsewise, it will be bound for your site, Rule 1.2 >>         Or coming from your site, Rule 2 and 3. >>H >>         I stuck a box out a few days ago.  Because it is out there asH >>         SMTP.companyname.domain  weasels look for that.  I don't haveJ >>         nearly the issue with another box that allows incoming SMTP butJ >>         isn't advertised.  Here is clear spammer activity, and not theyA >>         both can be back translated.  How do I know attemptingo >spam?  I am? >>         blocking all incoming SMTP, never did allow incomingo >SMTP.  Just using >>         it for outbound.n >>> >> 4-MAY-2002 20:22:57 SMTP (rejected) from [64.4.19.245,3315] >(f245.law12.hotmail.com) B >> 4-MAY-2002 20:23:41 SMTP (rejected) from [216.136.172.234,2962] >(qmail2.bulk.yahoo.com)> >> 4-MAY-2002 20:37:57 SMTP (rejected) from [64.4.19.245,1766] >(f245.law12.hotmail.com)  >>I >>         Many more entries all the time... less than 10 minutes after Is  >>         turned it on in fact. >>L >>         But worse than spammers, are weasels using your site to send spam7 >>         to the world (again, stop that with Rule 3).o >>& >>                                 Rob >aK >Thanks for that, but I need to accept incoming SMTP and I use Compaq TCPIPkL >Services. I'll try to match your Mulinet suggestions to my smtp.cong rules.? >I think the answer for me is there is no EASY way to block all  >spammers. I may@ >just to adjust the Good-Clients/Bad Clients list on an on-going >basis - yuck! >h >--D >n >Have VMS. Will Travel.g >Wire Paladin @alphase.com >San Francisco >N >---' >Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. ; >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).SA >Version: 6.0.351 / Virus Database: 197 - Release Date: 4/19/2002b >w ---r& Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.: Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).@ Version: 6.0.351 / Virus Database: 197 - Release Date: 4/19/2002   ------------------------------  * Date: Mon, 6 May 2002 22:07:39 +0000 (UTC) From: david20@alpha1.mdx.ac.uk! Subject: RE: SMTP Usage Filter...n+ Message-ID: <ab6urb$92n$1@aquila.mdx.ac.uk>a  _ In article <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIAEKNEOAA.tom@kednos.com>, "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> writes:     M Manually adding in bad clients is an exercise in futility. There are too manyt' of them and they change too frequently.iJ Make use of the RBL lists. These lists contain millions of known spammers N and known open-relay addresses which are added and removed as spam is reportedD and as ISPs get rid of spammers accounts and close down open relays.J Unfortunately the maps lists are no longer free. See http://mail-abuse.com, The Orbs list has been defunct for sometime.  5 A list of DNS based spam databases is available from  0 http://www.declude.com/JunkMail/Support/ip4r.htm  K Unfortunately I don't know how the RBL entries in smtp.config work whether  A just being in the database results in the message being rejected.oF I mention this because many of the databases return a value 127.0.0.1,N 127.0.0.2 etc to indicate why the entry is in the database. Hence you may needK to be careful what database you are using if smtp.config just rejects basede# on the entry being in the database.$  N The various lists also have vastly different policies on how easily things getL put on the list. www.declude.com includes recommendations on how you use theI lists. I would expect that the smtp.config only allows you to reject maileH rather than allowing you to tag it as likely spam. Hence this will again* restrict which lists you will want to use.  
 David Webb VMS and Unix team leader CCSS Middlesex University  7 >FREJA> more sys$sysdevice:[sys0.tcpip$smtp]smtp.configmJ >Good-Clients:   XX.XX.XX.0/24 !This restricts relay to machines on MY LANL >!!!  Just keep adding to the list below, <TAB> at beginning is continuationH >Bad-Clients: 200.283.124.11, 208.187.141.234,202.175.3.37,61.96.18.132,1 >        61.156.9.5, 213.154.130.195,209.123.16.9n >!!!Relay-Zones: dec.com,e >!!!        digital.com, >!!!        compaq.com> >!!!RBLs: rbl.maps.vix.com, dul.maps.vix.com, relays.orbs.org, >mr-out.imrss.org-( >RBLs: relays.orbs.org, sbl.spamhaus.org >!!!Relay-Based-On-Mx: TRUEu% >!!!Reject-Unbacktranslatable-IP:TRUEu# >Reject-Unbacktranslatable-IP:FALSEr% >!!!Accept-Unqualified-Senders:  TRUEz% >!!!Accept-Unresolvable-Domains: TRUE-@ >!!!Reject-Mail-From: *.xyz.com, known.spammer@*, *the_internet*K >!!!Accept-Mail-From: *@notabadguy.xyz.com, the_internet_news@somehwere.coms >SPAM-Action: OPCOM$ >Security: SECURE.= >Unbacktranslatable-IP-Text:     Can't verify your IP addressaI >Bad-Clients-Text:               Message rejected, SPAM has been receivedu >from yo	 >ur site.SM >        If you feel this is an error, send mail from another site indicating  >the
 > problem.E >Client-In-RBL-Text:             I Spotted you in an RBL. SPAMBREATH!d? >Reject-Mail-From-Text:          Haven't you SPAMmed me before?hI >Unqualified-Sender-Text:        MAIL FROM who? You've got to be kidding.-= >Unresolvable-Domain-Text:       MAIL FROM where? Yeah right.DF >SPAM-Relay-Text: Trying to launch your SPAM from my site will get you	 >nowhere.r > L >This is what I have.  Using Reject-Unbacktranslatable-IP is too restrictive >as-L >others have pointed out, so you need to turn it off.  Permitting relay, but	 >limitingoL >it to the Good-Clients list prevents you being used aas an open relay site. >Of course,aM >if you addresses in that list outside of your LAN then if one of those is an  >open relayl' >you will be just a bent pipe for them.o >c >a! >I have the following in my loginrH >$ stopsmtp=="@SYS$SYSDEVICE:[VMS$COMMON.SYSMGR]TCPIP$SMTP_SHUTDOWN.COM"H >$ startsmtp=="@SYS$SYSDEVICE:[VMS$COMMON.SYSMGR]TCPIP$SMTP_STARTUP.COM" >.M >to facilitate quickly adding offenders to the list  (probably overkill since: >it doesn't happen often)r >t >0   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 06 May 2002 22:39:58 GMTe( From: Don Sykes <annonymous@pacbell.net>! Subject: Re: SMTP Usage Filter... + Message-ID: <3CD7068B.5445EBFE@pacbell.net>-  - Thanks Tom. This is a very helpful beginning.m   Tom Linden wrote:s > 8 > FREJA> more sys$sysdevice:[sys0.tcpip$smtp]smtp.configK > Good-Clients:   XX.XX.XX.0/24 !This restricts relay to machines on MY LANhM > !!!  Just keep adding to the list below, <TAB> at beginning is continuationeI > Bad-Clients: 200.283.124.11, 208.187.141.234,202.175.3.37,61.96.18.132,r2 >         61.156.9.5, 213.154.130.195,209.123.16.9 > !!!Relay-Zones: dec.com, > !!!        digital.com,s > !!!        compaq.coma? > !!!RBLs: rbl.maps.vix.com, dul.maps.vix.com, relays.orbs.org,  > mr-out.imrss.org) > RBLs: relays.orbs.org, sbl.spamhaus.orgt > !!!Relay-Based-On-Mx: TRUE& > !!!Reject-Unbacktranslatable-IP:TRUE$ > Reject-Unbacktranslatable-IP:FALSE& > !!!Accept-Unqualified-Senders:  TRUE& > !!!Accept-Unresolvable-Domains: TRUEA > !!!Reject-Mail-From: *.xyz.com, known.spammer@*, *the_internet* L > !!!Accept-Mail-From: *@notabadguy.xyz.com, the_internet_news@somehwere.com > SPAM-Action: OPCOM > Security: SECURE> > Unbacktranslatable-IP-Text:     Can't verify your IP addressJ > Bad-Clients-Text:               Message rejected, SPAM has been received	 > from yon
 > ur site.N >         If you feel this is an error, send mail from another site indicating > thea >  problem.aF > Client-In-RBL-Text:             I Spotted you in an RBL. SPAMBREATH!@ > Reject-Mail-From-Text:          Haven't you SPAMmed me before?J > Unqualified-Sender-Text:        MAIL FROM who? You've got to be kidding.> > Unresolvable-Domain-Text:       MAIL FROM where? Yeah right.G > SPAM-Relay-Text: Trying to launch your SPAM from my site will get youa
 > nowhere. > M > This is what I have.  Using Reject-Unbacktranslatable-IP is too restrictivet > asM > others have pointed out, so you need to turn it off.  Permitting relay, butx
 > limitingM > it to the Good-Clients list prevents you being used aas an open relay site.a > Of course,N > if you addresses in that list outside of your LAN then if one of those is an > open relay( > you will be just a bent pipe for them. > " > I have the following in my loginI > $ stopsmtp=="@SYS$SYSDEVICE:[VMS$COMMON.SYSMGR]TCPIP$SMTP_SHUTDOWN.COM"SI > $ startsmtp=="@SYS$SYSDEVICE:[VMS$COMMON.SYSMGR]TCPIP$SMTP_STARTUP.COM"  > N > to facilitate quickly adding offenders to the list  (probably overkill since > it doesn't happen often) >  > >-----Original Message----- 2 > >From: Don Sykes [mailto:annonymous@pacbell.net]& > >Sent: Monday, May 06, 2002 10:47 AM > >To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com$ > >Subject: Re: SMTP Usage Filter... > >m > >t > >f > >u > >Rob Young wrote:h > >>: > >> In article <3CD304CE.E854D469@pacbell.net>, Don Sykes# > ><annonymous@pacbell.net> writes:t > >> >  > >> > My Knowledgeable Friends,@ > >> > In response to an email attack recently (using me as mail > >bouncer), I set up an% > >> > smtp.config file and entered : / > >> >       Reject-Unbacktranslatable-IP: TRUEhB > >> > I now notice far less junk mail and no new attacks. And I'm > >still getting some>A > >> > good mail, but I'm also rejecting about 10-20 emails/hr asH > >"unbacktranslatable".A > >> > My question is could this setting cause "good" email to ben > >blocked as well? B > >> > Put another way: is there ever a VALID reason why a port 25 > >request would comerE > >> > from an IP that can't be translated back to its sender domain?  > >> > > >> > >>         Short answer, yes.e > >>F > >>         The key is to block email that isn't headed to your site.< > >>         The Multinet SMTP_REJECT entry looks like this: > >> > >> !D > >> ! Disallow relaying through our mailer, and only allow users on > >our networksi2 > >> ! to claim to be from our company (blech.com) > >> !A > >> !  Wildcards can be used in FROM_USER, FROM_IP, and TO_USER.a > >> !7 > >> !FROM_USER    FROM_IP       TO_USER         ACTIONy > >> !2 > >> *             *             *blech.com      n2 > >> *blech.com    199.99.*      *               n2 > >> *             199.99.*      *               n? > >> *@*           *             *@*             q "no relaying: > >through this site"rB > >> *             *             *@*             y "missing domain > >name in MAIL FROM"  > >>H > >>         Note that third entry , the ACTION is "q".  Quietly reject. > >>K > >>         So weasels that are attempting to relay through your site will N > >>         hit that rule.  Elsewise, it will be bound for your site, Rule 1.4 > >>         Or coming from your site, Rule 2 and 3. > >>J > >>         I stuck a box out a few days ago.  Because it is out there asJ > >>         SMTP.companyname.domain  weasels look for that.  I don't haveL > >>         nearly the issue with another box that allows incoming SMTP butL > >>         isn't advertised.  Here is clear spammer activity, and not theyC > >>         both can be back translated.  How do I know attemptinga > >spam?  I amA > >>         blocking all incoming SMTP, never did allow incomingT > >SMTP.  Just using > >>         it for outbound.Q > >>@ > >> 4-MAY-2002 20:22:57 SMTP (rejected) from [64.4.19.245,3315] > >(f245.law12.hotmail.com)aD > >> 4-MAY-2002 20:23:41 SMTP (rejected) from [216.136.172.234,2962] > >(qmail2.bulk.yahoo.com)@ > >> 4-MAY-2002 20:37:57 SMTP (rejected) from [64.4.19.245,1766] > >(f245.law12.hotmail.com)  > >>K > >>         Many more entries all the time... less than 10 minutes after Ia" > >>         turned it on in fact. > >>N > >>         But worse than spammers, are weasels using your site to send spam9 > >>         to the world (again, stop that with Rule 3).c > >>( > >>                                 Rob > >cM > >Thanks for that, but I need to accept incoming SMTP and I use Compaq TCPIPlN > >Services. I'll try to match your Mulinet suggestions to my smtp.cong rules.A > >I think the answer for me is there is no EASY way to block alll > >spammers. I mayB > >just to adjust the Good-Clients/Bad Clients list on an on-going > >basis - yuck! > >- > >--- > >- > >Have VMS. Will Travel.1 > >Wire Paladin @alphase.com > >San Francisco > >u > >---) > >Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.L= > >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).dC > >Version: 6.0.351 / Virus Database: 197 - Release Date: 4/19/2002i > >t > ---e( > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.< > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).B > Version: 6.0.351 / Virus Database: 197 - Release Date: 4/19/2002   --     Have VMS. Will Travel. Wire Paladin @alphase.com 
 San Francisco.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 06 May 2002 22:04:38 -0400i1 From: Michael Austin <maustin@firstdbasource.com>i! Subject: Re: SMTP Usage Filter...l2 Message-ID: <3CD73636.175F7A40@firstdbasource.com>   Tom Linden wrote:I > 8 > FREJA> more sys$sysdevice:[sys0.tcpip$smtp]smtp.configK > Good-Clients:   XX.XX.XX.0/24 !This restricts relay to machines on MY LAN:M > !!!  Just keep adding to the list below, <TAB> at beginning is continuation.I > Bad-Clients: 200.283.124.11, 208.187.141.234,202.175.3.37,61.96.18.132,U2 >         61.156.9.5, 213.154.130.195,209.123.16.9 > !!!Relay-Zones: dec.com, > !!!        digital.com,e > !!!        compaq.come? > !!!RBLs: rbl.maps.vix.com, dul.maps.vix.com, relays.orbs.org,e > mr-out.imrss.org) > RBLs: relays.orbs.org, sbl.spamhaus.orgI > !!!Relay-Based-On-Mx: TRUE& > !!!Reject-Unbacktranslatable-IP:TRUE$ > Reject-Unbacktranslatable-IP:FALSE& > !!!Accept-Unqualified-Senders:  TRUE& > !!!Accept-Unresolvable-Domains: TRUEA > !!!Reject-Mail-From: *.xyz.com, known.spammer@*, *the_internet*iL > !!!Accept-Mail-From: *@notabadguy.xyz.com, the_internet_news@somehwere.com > SPAM-Action: OPCOM > Security: SECURE> > Unbacktranslatable-IP-Text:     Can't verify your IP addressJ > Bad-Clients-Text:               Message rejected, SPAM has been received	 > from yoo
 > ur site.N >         If you feel this is an error, send mail from another site indicating > theh >  problem.dF > Client-In-RBL-Text:             I Spotted you in an RBL. SPAMBREATH!@ > Reject-Mail-From-Text:          Haven't you SPAMmed me before?J > Unqualified-Sender-Text:        MAIL FROM who? You've got to be kidding.> > Unresolvable-Domain-Text:       MAIL FROM where? Yeah right.G > SPAM-Relay-Text: Trying to launch your SPAM from my site will get youl
 > nowhere. > M > This is what I have.  Using Reject-Unbacktranslatable-IP is too restrictiven > asM > others have pointed out, so you need to turn it off.  Permitting relay, butm
 > limitingM > it to the Good-Clients list prevents you being used aas an open relay site.  > Of course,N > if you addresses in that list outside of your LAN then if one of those is an > open relay( > you will be just a bent pipe for them. > " > I have the following in my loginI > $ stopsmtp=="@SYS$SYSDEVICE:[VMS$COMMON.SYSMGR]TCPIP$SMTP_SHUTDOWN.COM"aI > $ startsmtp=="@SYS$SYSDEVICE:[VMS$COMMON.SYSMGR]TCPIP$SMTP_STARTUP.COM"t > N > to facilitate quickly adding offenders to the list  (probably overkill since > it doesn't happen often) >  > >-----Original Message----- 2 > >From: Don Sykes [mailto:annonymous@pacbell.net]& > >Sent: Monday, May 06, 2002 10:47 AM > >To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com$ > >Subject: Re: SMTP Usage Filter... > >n > >h > >n > >  > >Rob Young wrote:s > >>: > >> In article <3CD304CE.E854D469@pacbell.net>, Don Sykes# > ><annonymous@pacbell.net> writes:a > >> >  > >> > My Knowledgeable Friends,@ > >> > In response to an email attack recently (using me as mail > >bouncer), I set up an% > >> > smtp.config file and entered :n/ > >> >       Reject-Unbacktranslatable-IP: TRUElB > >> > I now notice far less junk mail and no new attacks. And I'm > >still getting some!A > >> > good mail, but I'm also rejecting about 10-20 emails/hr as  > >"unbacktranslatable".A > >> > My question is could this setting cause "good" email to be* > >blocked as well? B > >> > Put another way: is there ever a VALID reason why a port 25 > >request would comerE > >> > from an IP that can't be translated back to its sender domain?s > >> > > >> > >>         Short answer, yes.  > >>F > >>         The key is to block email that isn't headed to your site.< > >>         The Multinet SMTP_REJECT entry looks like this: > >> > >> !D > >> ! Disallow relaying through our mailer, and only allow users on > >our networksf2 > >> ! to claim to be from our company (blech.com) > >> !A > >> !  Wildcards can be used in FROM_USER, FROM_IP, and TO_USER.p > >> !7 > >> !FROM_USER    FROM_IP       TO_USER         ACTIONn > >> !2 > >> *             *             *blech.com      n2 > >> *blech.com    199.99.*      *               n2 > >> *             199.99.*      *               n? > >> *@*           *             *@*             q "no relaying  > >through this site"gB > >> *             *             *@*             y "missing domain > >name in MAIL FROM"4 > >>H > >>         Note that third entry , the ACTION is "q".  Quietly reject. > >>K > >>         So weasels that are attempting to relay through your site will2N > >>         hit that rule.  Elsewise, it will be bound for your site, Rule 1.4 > >>         Or coming from your site, Rule 2 and 3. > >>J > >>         I stuck a box out a few days ago.  Because it is out there asJ > >>         SMTP.companyname.domain  weasels look for that.  I don't haveL > >>         nearly the issue with another box that allows incoming SMTP butL > >>         isn't advertised.  Here is clear spammer activity, and not theyC > >>         both can be back translated.  How do I know attemptingh > >spam?  I amA > >>         blocking all incoming SMTP, never did allow incomingr > >SMTP.  Just using > >>         it for outbound.s > >>@ > >> 4-MAY-2002 20:22:57 SMTP (rejected) from [64.4.19.245,3315] > >(f245.law12.hotmail.com).D > >> 4-MAY-2002 20:23:41 SMTP (rejected) from [216.136.172.234,2962] > >(qmail2.bulk.yahoo.com)@ > >> 4-MAY-2002 20:37:57 SMTP (rejected) from [64.4.19.245,1766] > >(f245.law12.hotmail.com)  > >>K > >>         Many more entries all the time... less than 10 minutes after Id" > >>         turned it on in fact. > >>N > >>         But worse than spammers, are weasels using your site to send spam9 > >>         to the world (again, stop that with Rule 3).  > >>( > >>                                 Rob > >lM > >Thanks for that, but I need to accept incoming SMTP and I use Compaq TCPIPqN > >Services. I'll try to match your Mulinet suggestions to my smtp.cong rules.A > >I think the answer for me is there is no EASY way to block alli > >spammers. I mayB > >just to adjust the Good-Clients/Bad Clients list on an on-going > >basis - yuck! > >  > >--t > >e > >Have VMS. Will Travel.f > >Wire Paladin @alphase.com > >San Francisco > >h > >---) > >Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.I= > >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).nC > >Version: 6.0.351 / Virus Database: 197 - Release Date: 4/19/2002c > >h > ---l( > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.< > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).B > Version: 6.0.351 / Virus Database: 197 - Release Date: 4/19/2002  ? Add these as well, these are entire Asia/Pacific (China) entireh	 networks.r  < Bad-Clients: 210.0.0.0/8,211.0.0.0/8,202.0.0.0/8,203.0.0.0/8  H I was getting a bunch of rejections in OPCOM, until they finally got the0 message and now I get none from those addresses. -- b Regards,  7 Michael Austin            Registered Linux User #261163e7 First DBA Source, Inc.    http://www.firstdbasource.comi Sr. Consultant 704-947-1089 (Office)  704-236-4377 (Mobile)t   ------------------------------  $ Date: Mon, 6 May 2002 19:28:16 -0700# From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com>s! Subject: RE: SMTP Usage Filter...t9 Message-ID: <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIEEMDEOAA.tom@kednos.com>H   >-----Original Message-----w9 >From: Michael Austin [mailto:maustin@firstdbasource.com]x# >Sent: Monday, May 06, 2002 7:05 PMi >To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com" >Subject: Re: SMTP Usage Filter... >o >l >Tom Linden wrote: >>9 >> FREJA> more sys$sysdevice:[sys0.tcpip$smtp]smtp.config L >> Good-Clients:   XX.XX.XX.0/24 !This restricts relay to machines on MY LANA >> !!!  Just keep adding to the list below, <TAB> at beginning is6
 >continuation1I >> Bad-Clients: 200.283.124.11, 208.187.141.234,202.175.3.37,61.96.18.132o ----- snip  -----p >c@ >Add these as well, these are entire Asia/Pacific (China) entire
 >networks. >.= >Bad-Clients: 210.0.0.0/8,211.0.0.0/8,202.0.0.0/8,203.0.0.0/8- >MI >I was getting a bunch of rejections in OPCOM, until they finally got thee1 >message and now I get none from those addresses.   H You may have to clear this with the White House, setting foreign policy,G on the other hand,  maybe a good idea.  It will get the message across.   J BTW how do you find out how license are handed out?  Is that it, 4 Class A fort China?     >--x	 >Regards,t >r8 >Michael Austin            Registered Linux User #2611638 >First DBA Source, Inc.    http://www.firstdbasource.com >Sr. Consultanto >704-947-1089 (Office) >704-236-4377 (Mobile) >e >---' >Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.T; >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).cA >Version: 6.0.351 / Virus Database: 197 - Release Date: 4/19/2002i >d ---e& Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.: Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).@ Version: 6.0.351 / Virus Database: 197 - Release Date: 4/19/2002   ------------------------------  $ Date: Mon, 6 May 2002 17:39:48 -0700# From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com>s$ Subject: Supported scsi  controllers9 Message-ID: <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJICELPEOAA.tom@kednos.com>m  * Does VMS have drivers for Adaptec 2940U2W?    --- & Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.: Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).@ Version: 6.0.351 / Virus Database: 197 - Release Date: 4/19/2002   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 06 May 2002 19:55:54 -0500SC From: "Craig A. Berry" <craig.berry@nospam.SignalTreeSolutions.com>=( Subject: Re: Supported scsi  controllersH Message-ID: <craig.berry-115077.19555306052002@news.directvinternet.com>  9 In article <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJICELPEOAA.tom@kednos.com>,0%  "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> wrote:a  , > Does VMS have drivers for Adaptec 2940U2W?   No.n   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 06 May 2002 18:08:05 GMTD5 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com>e Subject: Re: USB on OpenVMS 9 Message-ID: <9EzB8.34$td5.671804@cacnews.cac.cpqcorp.net>$  F I think that they first showed up on trackballs, just under the thumb.    H Doc.Cypher wrote in message <20020506173309.3254.qmail@gacracker.org>...L >On Mon, 06 May 2002, "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> wrote:J >>You guys keep stumping me with technical terms.  What is a Willy -Wheel? IRI >>assume this is a dig at Bill Gates, so therefor some strange MS device.  >>C >>The USB architecture *does* have something going for it - writtent	 standards K >>for the input data for many HID devices, including mice.  So, pretty much!J >>anything should work.  I believe that we will be shipping a more-or-lessK >>conventional 3-button mouse.  I have a "classic" Compaq 3-button mouse, a I >>new carbon-black Compaq 3-button mouse, and a Microsoft 3 button mouse,cG >>where the middle button is a thumbwheel - all work fine.  As does theP
 >>thumbwheel.M >  >Picky point No 42...a >rI >Why on Earth do they call it a "thumbwheel" when your thumb goes nowhere 
 >near it? :-)s >  >e >Doc.P >--s7 >The bigger the humbug, the better people will like it.fL >~ Phineas Taylor Barnum.                             https://vmsbox.cjb.net   ------------------------------  * Date: Mon, 6 May 2002 18:25:05 +0000 (UTC), From: lewis@PROBE.mitre.org (Keith A. Lewis) Subject: Re: USB on OpenVMSe. Message-ID: <ab6hq1$7uc$1@newslocal.mitre.org>   Bart Zorn <B.Zorn@xs4all.nospam.nl> writes in article <3CD68BE4.3090607@xs4all.nospam.nl> dated Mon, 06 May 2002 15:57:56 +0200: >Fred Kleinsorge wrote:o- >> Eh?  What's a two-cylinder VSXXX-AA mouse?t >> cM >> The mouse will be a standard 3-button USB mouse.  As an added bonus, I puteN >> support for the thumbwheel in for anyone that wants to plug in a thumbwheel	 >> mouse.n >yA >There were two versions of the VS-XXX-AA mouse. One had the the eG >traditional ball mechanism which we all hate because it collects dirt rF >and therefore it becomes inaccurate over time. The other version you I >could call "two-cylinder". It had two tilted shafts with a little wheel _I >each wich did the motion sensing. The only dirt they collected remained P4 >on the outside of the mouse and was easily cleaned. >eI >I seem to remember that Digital won an Industry Prize with it. Probably  B >they were so shocked by this prize that they dropped the product.  M I tried a Google search on "two cylinder mouse" and came up basically empty. mE It sounds interesting, I'd like to read more if anybody has a link...Y  J Of course, no matter how good it is mechanically I can't see it collectingI less dirt than a modern optical mouse.  I would love to be able to plug ae) USB optical mouse into an alphastation.     ? And a USB keyboard too.  I tried a Logitech PS-2 keyboard on myoI Alphastation, and it hung twice in 20 minutes.  I'm hoping the Digital PC 0 keyboard I just bought on ebay will fare better.  + --Keith Lewis              klewis$mitre.org>> The above may not (yet) represent the opinions of my employer.   ------------------------------  $ Date: Mon, 6 May 2002 14:12:49 -0400 From: William_Bochnik@acml.com Subject: Re: USB on OpenVMSy> Message-ID: <OF5579DC70.741ECE2B-ON85256BB1.00640004@acml.com>  ? I was going to warn Doc Cypher that people were'nt going to get # it, and start this thread for real.S   This should be interesting.       c                                                                                                    rc                       Fred Kleinsorge                                                              nc                       <kleinsorge@star.z                To:  Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com                  c                       ko.dec.com>                       cc:                                         c                                                  Subject: Re: USB on OpenVMS                        c                       05/06/2002 02:08                                                              c                       PM                                                                            c                       Please respond to                                                            Oc                       Fred Kleinsorge                                                              ic                       <kleinsorge@star.z                                                            c                       ko.dec.com>                                                                  sc                                                                                                    >c                                                                                                    e      ? I think that they first showed up on trackballs, just under the  thumb.     Doc.Cypher wrote in messaget, <20020506173309.3254.qmail@gacracker.org>...' >On Mon, 06 May 2002, "Fred Kleinsorge"T$ <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> wrote:< >>You guys keep stumping me with technical terms.  What is a
 Willy -Wheel?9 I5A >>assume this is a dig at Bill Gates, so therefor some strange MS  device.) >>; >>The USB architecture *does* have something going for it -M written0	 standards ? >>for the input data for many HID devices, including mice.  So,  pretty much = >>anything should work.  I believe that we will be shipping ae more-or-less9 >>conventional 3-button mouse.  I have a "classic" Compaqa 3-button mouse, as; >>new carbon-black Compaq 3-button mouse, and a Microsoft 3a
 button mouse, > >>where the middle button is a thumbwheel - all work fine.  As does the
 >>thumbwheel.  >  >Picky point No 42...n >MA >Why on Earth do they call it a "thumbwheel" when your thumb goesi nowheres
 >near it? :-)p >n >u >Doc.  >--i7 >The bigger the humbug, the better people will like it.l >~ Phineas Taylor Barnum.s https://vmsbox.cjb.net                 The information contained in this transmission may contain privileged and confidential information and is intended only for thec use of the person(s) name above.  If you are not the intended recipient, or an employee or agent responsible for delivering this{ message to the intended recipient, any review, dissemination, distribution or duplication of this communication is strictly  prohibited.  If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message.   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 06 May 2002 18:55:18 GMT-5 From: Forrest Kenney <Forrest.Kenney@compaq.com.doom>m Subject: Re: USB on OpenVMSs/ Message-ID: <3CD6D020.8ABB8989@compaq.com.doom>.  M     You should be able to plug in any USB mouse optical etc. that you desire. O I did a bunch of testing with a microsoft optical track ball with 5 buttons and. a thumb wheel.  G     For folks who want to experiment when they V7.3-1 and want to use aeJ USB controller that VMS will automatically recognize get an ADS TechnologyD Turbo Quad 4 card.  I just checked and CompUSA carries them and they cost less that $30.9  K     Officially USB is only going to be supported for 1 keyboard and 1 mouseoM one Marvel systems.  But most of our testing has been done on other platformsi using add in cards.a   Forrest Kenney OpenVMSr  L > Of course, no matter how good it is mechanically I can't see it collectingK > less dirt than a modern optical mouse.  I would love to be able to plug aA) > USB optical mouse into an alphastation.c >aA > And a USB keyboard too.  I tried a Logitech PS-2 keyboard on myaK > Alphastation, and it hung twice in 20 minutes.  I'm hoping the Digital PC:2 > keyboard I just bought on ebay will fare better. >t- > --Keith Lewis              klewis$mitre.orgt@ > The above may not (yet) represent the opinions of my employer.   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 06 May 2002 22:33:33 GMTr2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) Subject: Re: USB on OpenVMS 9 Message-ID: <1xDB8.53$Sc5.655447@cacnews.cac.cpqcorp.net>T  T In article <3cd4796b.5009249@news.atl.bellsouth.net>, statzerj@bellsouth.net writes:F :Are there drivers available to support USB devices under OpenVMS?  MyF :initial web seach was not promising, but I have a USB DSL modem and IC :have seen it possible to set up Linux to run this modem, but wouldsG :like to experiment with VMS as well if my Multia or Alphastation could  :handle it.s  >   Not as yet -- USB support is part of the V7.3-1 release, and?   it targets specific platforms and specific USB hardware.  USBe0   keyboard, mouse, possibly a few other devices.  >   Some of the prototyping was done on a USB PCI board and this>   might work on some boxes, but the official USB support will 0   be for the AlphaServer GS1280 series hardware.  <   There was an early kit containing USB bits, but there have>   been a number of changes since the kit -- and there has been?   little or no testing and little or no support of USB hardwarev=   on boxes prior than the AlphaServer GS1280 series hardware.M  <   As yet, there is no GK-like interface for USB, and the USB?   definition files have yet to be cleanly split out of OpenVMS c?   for inclusion into application drivers -- anyone considering  =   adding a new USB widget will have some work, and will need 9   the OpenVMS listings.   N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------N       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.com    N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------   Date: 6 May 2002 14:14:39 -0700c4 From: wcoltters@yahoo.com (Wilson Guerrero-Coltters)E Subject: Using LD from OpenVMS 7.2-1 Installation CD, Can it be done? = Message-ID: <ff6f1d30.0205061314.314b7a11@posting.google.com>A  
 Greetings,  > I would appreciate if someone can tell me if this is possible.> Currently we have an Alpha DS10 OpenVMS 7.2-1, CDROM drive, no$ Tape drive, LD software version 6.2.  What I would like to do is this: 1-. Boot from installation CD./ 2-. Connect and mount 2 LD devices LDA1:, LDA2:  with their respective files.. 3-. Backup image system disk to these devices.4 $ BACKUP/IMAGE $1$DIA0: LDA1:DIA0.SAV/SAV,LDA2: /LOG  E The problem is, LD is not on the installation CD as you already know.nC So, if I make a copy of the installation CD, can I add the LD filesP@ to it, so I can use it when I boot from the CD? If so, I will be able to load the driver with    $ RUN SYS$SYSTEM:SYSGEN4               CONNECT LDA0/NOADAPTER/DRIVER=LDDRIVER5 if LDDRIVER (and LD by the way) is present on the CD?   D Any help ,suggestions, comments or critics will be very appreciated.: If I have to RTFM o STFW, I would like someone to point me to any related URL :-)   Regards, Wilson.d   ------------------------------  $ Date: Mon, 6 May 2002 14:23:25 -0700# From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com>hI Subject: RE: Using LD from OpenVMS 7.2-1 Installation CD, Can it be done?o9 Message-ID: <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIOELGEOAA.tom@kednos.com>,   >-----Original Message----- < >From: Wilson Guerrero-Coltters [mailto:wcoltters@yahoo.com]# >Sent: Monday, May 06, 2002 2:15 PMa >To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.ComF >Subject: Using LD from OpenVMS 7.2-1 Installation CD, Can it be done? >c >n >Greetings,  > ? >I would appreciate if someone can tell me if this is possible. ? >Currently we have an Alpha DS10 OpenVMS 7.2-1, CDROM drive, not% >Tape drive, LD software version 6.2.b! >What I would like to do is this:d >1-. Boot from installation CD.u0 >2-. Connect and mount 2 LD devices LDA1:, LDA2: >with their respective files.e/ >3-. Backup image system disk to these devices.l5 >$ BACKUP/IMAGE $1$DIA0: LDA1:DIA0.SAV/SAV,LDA2: /LOG2   What is the purpose of that?   >.F >The problem is, LD is not on the installation CD as you already know.D >So, if I make a copy of the installation CD, can I add the LD filesA >to it, so I can use it when I boot from the CD? If so, I will bee >able to load the driver with  >   $ RUN SYS$SYSTEM:SYSGEN 5 >              CONNECT LDA0/NOADAPTER/DRIVER=LDDRIVERt6 >if LDDRIVER (and LD by the way) is present on the CD? > E >Any help ,suggestions, comments or critics will be very appreciated.t; >If I have to RTFM o STFW, I would like someone to point meI >to any related URL :-)i > 	 >Regards,  >Wilson. >n >---' >Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. ; >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).aA >Version: 6.0.351 / Virus Database: 197 - Release Date: 4/19/2002y >! --- & Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.: Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).@ Version: 6.0.351 / Virus Database: 197 - Release Date: 4/19/2002   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 06 May 2002 23:12:21 GMTu2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)I Subject: Re: Using LD from OpenVMS 7.2-1 Installation CD, Can it be done? 9 Message-ID: <p5EB8.54$Ji5.905319@cacnews.cac.cpqcorp.net>s  t In article <ff6f1d30.0205061314.314b7a11@posting.google.com>, wcoltters@yahoo.com (Wilson Guerrero-Coltters) writes:  ? :I would appreciate if someone can tell me if this is possible.   C   So if I understand correctly, you want to archive the contents ofeA   your system disk to a sequential saveset created across several ?   file-backed logical disk partitions.  Why?  You have no other A   storage available to you, and no storage that can be transfered $   over onto this system temporarily?  ? :Currently we have an Alpha DS10 OpenVMS 7.2-1, CDROM drive, no % :Tape drive, LD software version 6.2.@! :What I would like to do is this:g :1-. Boot from installation CD.M0 :2-. Connect and mount 2 LD devices LDA1:, LDA2: :with their respective files.c/ :3-. Backup image system disk to these devices. 5 :$ BACKUP/IMAGE $1$DIA0: LDA1:DIA0.SAV/SAV,LDA2: /LOG.    ?   DIA0:?  I've not seen particularly many DSSI disks configuredt    on an AlphaServer DS10 series.  =   Does this particular AlphaServer DS10 box have IDE or SCSI?4    F :The problem is, LD is not on the installation CD as you already know.D :So, if I make a copy of the installation CD, can I add the LD filesA :to it, so I can use it when I boot from the CD? If so, I will ben :able to load the driver withe :   $ RUN SYS$SYSTEM:SYSGENi5 :              CONNECT LDA0/NOADAPTER/DRIVER=LDDRIVER.6 :if LDDRIVER (and LD by the way) is present on the CD?  F   You could certainly tweak the distribution kit to your requirements,   and burn your own CD-R.t  D   I would also assume you might be able to connect the LDDRIVER fromG   the target disk -- this approach could potentially also involve some  D   "creative" remapping of some of the core SYS$ system logical namesC   during the duration of the $$$ operations on the bootable CD-ROM.   E :Any help ,suggestions, comments or critics will be very appreciated.c  "   This is ugly.  (You did ask. :-)  ; :If I have to RTFM o STFW, I would like someone to point meb :to any related URL :-)     B   Since this whole sequence and this configuration is, well, ugly,=   I'd probably simply do the backup "hot", after performing a A   system shutdown and a minimal startup -- drop the saveset rightsB   back onto the target system disk.  (Yes, some of the open files @   on the system disk might not be consistently copied.  Then youA   have to figure out how to get the saveset somewhere safe -- and-,   more importantly, how to then restore it.)  B   If you DO create these disks and if you do create the sequentialB   saveset, testing will be interesting -- if the test restoration 2   fails, well, you could clobber your system disk.  ?   If it were me, I'd scrounge another disk (or off-load anothero@   disk temporarily), or I'd scrounge a tape...  Cheaper, easier,   and more reliable...  N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------N       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.com    N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 07 May 2002 01:53:16 GMT-1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>0I Subject: Re: Using LD from OpenVMS 7.2-1 Installation CD, Can it be done?u' Message-ID: <3CD73696.66A52609@fsi.net>9   Wilson Guerrero-Coltters wrote:o >  > Greetings, > @ > I would appreciate if someone can tell me if this is possible.@ > Currently we have an Alpha DS10 OpenVMS 7.2-1, CDROM drive, no& > Tape drive, LD software version 6.2." > What I would like to do is this:  > 1-. Boot from installation CD.1 > 2-. Connect and mount 2 LD devices LDA1:, LDA2:  > with their respective files.0 > 3-. Backup image system disk to these devices.6 > $ BACKUP/IMAGE $1$DIA0: LDA1:DIA0.SAV/SAV,LDA2: /LOG > G > The problem is, LD is not on the installation CD as you already know.iE > So, if I make a copy of the installation CD, can I add the LD fileswB > to it, so I can use it when I boot from the CD? If so, I will be > able to load the driver with >    $ RUN SYS$SYSTEM:SYSGEN6 >               CONNECT LDA0/NOADAPTER/DRIVER=LDDRIVER7 > if LDDRIVER (and LD by the way) is present on the CD?. > F > Any help ,suggestions, comments or critics will be very appreciated.< > If I have to RTFM o STFW, I would like someone to point me > to any related URL :-)  G Maybe if you told us why you want to do this, we could suggest a betterP way.  D Otherwise, as Hoff suggested, you certainly could do as you suggest.% (DSSI on Alpha? I've seen it, but...)o  F BTW - on Alpha, it may be recommended to use SYSMAN IO CONNECT instead$ of SYSGEN CONNECT. Both work, AFAIK.  " For what little it may be worth...   -- > David J. Dachterar dba DJE Systemsl http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------   Date: 6 May 2002 21:55:40 -0700>4 From: wcoltters@yahoo.com (Wilson Guerrero-Coltters)I Subject: Re: Using LD from OpenVMS 7.2-1 Installation CD, Can it be done?h= Message-ID: <ff6f1d30.0205062055.34e959be@posting.google.com>w  d "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> wrote in message news:<CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIOELGEOAA.tom@kednos.com>... > >tA > >I would appreciate if someone can tell me if this is possible.hA > >Currently we have an Alpha DS10 OpenVMS 7.2-1, CDROM drive, no ' > >Tape drive, LD software version 6.2.d# > >What I would like to do is this:t! > >1-. Boot from installation CD.u2 > >2-. Connect and mount 2 LD devices LDA1:, LDA2: > >with their respective files.a1 > >3-. Backup image system disk to these devices. 7 > >$ BACKUP/IMAGE $1$DIA0: LDA1:DIA0.SAV/SAV,LDA2: /LOG  >  > What is the purpose of that? >   4 Well, we don't have a tape drive for this alpha. So,4 we think this is a good alternative to make backups. Besides, Cdrom media is cheap.3 We have made online image backups already using ther3 procedure above, but I would like to make them froml2 a boot CD, so all the files on the system disk are& closed. ==> THIS is the final purpose.0 Well, other alternative would be to boot minimal. from the system disk and make the image backup' from there. I haven't tested it though.y( Well, as a last comment I'm just looking1 all the posibilities, so if you have a suggestione would be very welcome.   Regards, Wilson.-   ------------------------------   Date: 6 May 2002 18:04:11 -0000m= From: Doc.Cypher <Use-Author-Supplied-Address-Header@[127.1]>g1 Subject: Re: VMS Bigots Unite To Form New Company.5 Message-ID: <20020506180411.4344.qmail@gacracker.org>'  B On Mon, 6 May 2002, Terry C Shannon <shannon@world.std.com> wrote:! >On 5 May 2002, Doc.Cypher wrote:    <snip>  ( >> S'cuse me, what new marketing effort? >>M >> Apart from the personal visits to large customers to try and convince them L >> all is well, the only marketing going on seems to be that of people here.K >> Either doing things like providing free access to increase knowledge and L >> exposure, or gratuitously crossposting to other newsgroups to remind them
 >> VMS lives.  > D >The "new marketing effort" targets the SMB marketplace, which isn't >exactly a VMS stronghold.  D Before admitting to total ignorance of what SMB is, I tried a googleI search. As with all these new bits of jargon it isn't easy to find a page  telling you what it means.  H At a guess from some of the pages, it's Small to Medium Business. But ifG so, what campaign is this, and where can I read more on the subject? If H not, please enlighten me. If I'm right, how does the EOL of the DS10 fit
 with this?   ><snip>  >>L >> Indeed it is. There are a lot of "details" that need attended to, but the@ >> big issue is exposure. VMS simply isn't getting enough of it. >> > G >I don't think any of the denizens of comp.os.vms would argue with that J >observation. Perhaps some good will come of the May 7 acquisition-related >org chart shuffle...   I I *really* hope so, but it is so difficult to have any optimism about it.   K I, and I suspect many other paticipants of this group, simply aren't seeing.J any efforts to raise the profile of VMS. Honestly, if I ever see an advertK for it on BBC World I'll probably have my first heart-attack - but at least> I'll die happy. :-)g  K In the meantime, I'll continue to do whatever I can to promote awareness ofg? the OS, and as I've had no feedback on my proposed text for the K windows-sucks website I'll inform the page maintainer they can take it. I'm B already getting a noticeable number of referrals from the site, soH something written to try and raise interest in VMS has to be worthwhile.     Doc. --  6 The bigger the humbug, the better people will like it.K ~ Phineas Taylor Barnum.                             https://vmsbox.cjb.nets   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 06 May 2002 15:03:47 -0400k- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>y1 Subject: Re: VMS Bigots Unite To Form New Company , Message-ID: <3CD6D391.692B6A7C@videotron.ca>   Terry C Shannon wrote:B > Yep, that would have been the 1994(?) move to indirect channels.  L The move to indirect channels for smaller customers is not the one big thingL which killed VMS from smaller shops. It is producty and pricing decisions toJ specifically ensure that VMS was not competitive at that level. On the oneK hand, they didn't want to hurt their struggling wintel business, and on thefN other, they didn't want their large customers buying small machines instead of
 the big ones.o  G The assholes at Compaq should have clearly seen the mistake that costedoL Digital's life. Compaq's stock ceased trading last friday. Obviously, Compaq' didn't see the mistake and repeated it.    ------------------------------   Date: 6 May 2002 13:41:22 -05001- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)n Subject: RE: VMS SCAN productR3 Message-ID: <izEFUevUENUC@eisner.encompasserve.org>m  _ In article <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIAEKGEOAA.tom@kednos.com>, "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> writes: A > If all you are doing is providing a mechanism to take exisitinguB > SCAN code from the VAX and move to Alpha then I think the mannerB > in which the translation is done is adequate.  However, it is ofB > marginal value if you wish to write or maintain code, unless, of' > course,  you also provide a debugger.h  D Or we all convince VMS Development to move the VAX Scan support overC to Alpha.  I am under the impression that VAX and Alpha DST recordsr resemble each other.   ------------------------------  $ Date: Mon, 6 May 2002 16:16:27 -0700# From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com>  Subject: RE: VMS SCAN productl9 Message-ID: <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIAELLEOAA.tom@kednos.com>o   >-----Original Message----- 5 >From: Larry Kilgallen [mailto:Kilgallen@SpamCop.net]e$ >Sent: Monday, May 06, 2002 11:41 AM >To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com >Subject: RE: VMS SCAN product >. >'@ >In article <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIAEKGEOAA.tom@kednos.com>, "Tom ! >Linden" <tom@kednos.com> writes: B >> If all you are doing is providing a mechanism to take exisitingC >> SCAN code from the VAX and move to Alpha then I think the manneroC >> in which the translation is done is adequate.  However, it is offC >> marginal value if you wish to write or maintain code, unless, of5( >> course,  you also provide a debugger. ><E >Or we all convince VMS Development to move the VAX Scan support over:D >to Alpha.  I am under the impression that VAX and Alpha DST records >resemble each other.w  B Well symbol table is one thing, but you would still have to figure@ out how to get the line number info, so as to make the C compile stage totally transparent  M   >  >---' >Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.s; >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).tA >Version: 6.0.351 / Virus Database: 197 - Release Date: 4/19/2002a >  ---,& Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.: Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).@ Version: 6.0.351 / Virus Database: 197 - Release Date: 4/19/2002   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 06 May 2002 19:17:29 GMTc2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) Subject: Re: VMSTARk9 Message-ID: <dFAB8.39$Uf5.790673@cacnews.cac.cpqcorp.net>   a In article <aaqkb8$h6d$1@rex.ip-plus.net>, "Bernard Schluep" <bernard.schluep@azisoft.ch> writes:s@ :Periodically, I receive a TAR file generated on an Unix system., :It contains a text file and some TIF files.M :When I try to decompress it with VMSTAR 3.4-1, I receive only the text file,  :the others are not extracted.  H   Could you be more specific?  Please provide the exact command(s) used,F   the exact filenames involved, and anything that might help us figureG   out what might be happening here.  Depending on exactly what you are -D   up to, the OpenVMS version and platform can also be relevent here.    N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------N       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.com    N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 06 May 2002 21:23:41 GMTe2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) Subject: Re: VMSTAR,9 Message-ID: <xvCB8.47$lj5.938005@cacnews.cac.cpqcorp.net>t  c In article <HQ40t6LSUhtu@eisner.encompasserve.org>, koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes: i :In article <55f85d77.0205020655.68a27c0@posting.google.com>, P.Young@unsw.EDU.AU (Patrick Young) writes:0 :DA :> I'm also in the middle of increasing the maximum file size fora> :> files in the archive to break the "unsigned int" byte count- :> limit (Alpha, and I expect Itanium, only).s : F :   Is there really any value in making it longer than naml$c_maxrss ?  D   You are obviously thinking of longer file names, and the original *   poster is refering to larger file sizes.  G   The _LARGEFILE support permiting lseeks and off_t values past 2GB is iJ   (soon) shipping in ECO kits for OpenVMS Alpha V7.3 (VMS73_ACRTL-V0200), G   V7.2-2 (VMS722_ACRTL-V0100), and V7.2-1 (VMS721_ACRTL-V0400).  To use-D   this, enable the support using the following: CC/DEFINE=_LARGEFILE      N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------N       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.com    N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 06 May 2002 22:23:48 GMTc2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)A Subject: Re: Was OpenVMS V7.3 ever released for the VAX platform?S9 Message-ID: <UnDB8.52$Sc5.655447@cacnews.cac.cpqcorp.net>e  _ In article <3cd2cff1_2@news.tiscalinet.ch>, "Giorgio Ungarelli" <giorgio@ungarelli.net> writes:a  J :I thought that the last version of OpenVMS released by Compaq for the VAXM :platform was V7.2 and all subsequent releases (V7.2-1, V7.3, etc) would onlyS :be for the Alpha platform.  u  E   This belief would largely be true for the "dash" -- maintenance -- sC   releases of OpenVMS, but OpenVMS VAX releases are most certainly  C   available.   OpenVMS VAX has not shipped a "dash" -- maintenance IE   -- nor a new hardware release in some time, and there are no plans SG   to ship either.  I am aware of no announced end to the "dot" releasesVI   for OpenVMS VAX, and I would expect to see a V7.4 ship around the same o1   time that the OpenVMS Alpha V7.4 release ships.   F   As for suggestions on how you can answer your own questions, please I   follow the "announcing OpenVMS V7.3" link that is available at the top uI   center of the http://www.openvms.compaq.com/ main page.  You will find rF   an announcement, documentation, and related details.   Additionally,E   the OpenVMS Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ) document -- available tK   using a link at the http://www.openvms.compaq.com/ main page -- contains eF   information on OpenVMS VAX V7.3 upgrades.  As for details on the VAXI   platform, please visit http://www.compaq.com/alphaserver/vax/index.htmlj  E   You can also find the OpenVMS product roadmap available at the maineI   OpenVMS website; follow the "OpenVMS Software" or the "OpenVMS Product f4   Information" link to the webpage with the Roadmap.  - :However, I have recently seen pictures of an 5 :OpenVMS/VAX V7.3 CD (from Compaq), dated April 2001.o :bH :Could someone please confirm that OpenVMS V7.3 is available for the VAX
 :platform?  E   Ok, your understanding is incorrect, while your vision is good. :-)   5   Yes, OpenVMS VAX V7.3 is available and is shipping.r    N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------N       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.com    N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  $ Date: Mon, 6 May 2002 15:40:31 -0700# From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com>:A Subject: RE: Was OpenVMS V7.3 ever released for the VAX platform?l9 Message-ID: <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIOELIEOAA.tom@kednos.com>s   >-----Original Message-----r: >From: Hoff Hoffman [mailto:hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam]# >Sent: Monday, May 06, 2002 3:24 PMs >To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.ComB >Subject: Re: Was OpenVMS V7.3 ever released for the VAX platform? >o >c@ >In article <3cd2cff1_2@news.tiscalinet.ch>, "Giorgio Ungarelli"  ><giorgio@ungarelli.net> writes: >TK >:I thought that the last version of OpenVMS released by Compaq for the VAXVC >:platform was V7.2 and all subsequent releases (V7.2-1, V7.3, etc)  >would onlyt >:be for the Alpha platform. >,E >  This belief would largely be true for the "dash" -- maintenance -- C >  releases of OpenVMS, but OpenVMS VAX releases are most certainlydC >  available.   OpenVMS VAX has not shipped a "dash" -- maintenancehE >  -- nor a new hardware release in some time, and there are no plansaH >  to ship either.  I am aware of no announced end to the "dot" releasesI >  for OpenVMS VAX, and I would expect to see a V7.4 ship around the same 2 >  time that the OpenVMS Alpha V7.4 release ships. >bF >  As for suggestions on how you can answer your own questions, pleaseI >  follow the "announcing OpenVMS V7.3" link that is available at the toprI >  center of the http://www.openvms.compaq.com/ main page.  You will find G >  an announcement, documentation, and related details.   Additionally, E >  the OpenVMS Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ) document -- availableaK >  using a link at the http://www.openvms.compaq.com/ main page -- containsaG >  information on OpenVMS VAX V7.3 upgrades.  As for details on the VAXoJ >  platform, please visit http://www.compaq.com/alphaserver/vax/index.html >sF >  You can also find the OpenVMS product roadmap available at the mainI >  OpenVMS website; follow the "OpenVMS Software" or the "OpenVMS Producto5 >  Information" link to the webpage with the Roadmap.  > . >:However, I have recently seen pictures of an6 >:OpenVMS/VAX V7.3 CD (from Compaq), dated April 2001. >:I >:Could someone please confirm that OpenVMS V7.3 is available for the VAX- >:platform?- >-F >  Ok, your understanding is incorrect, while your vision is good. :-) > 6 >  Yes, OpenVMS VAX V7.3 is available and is shipping.  F My CSA kit, however, was missing the VAX CD.  Is this a suttle form of social& engineering applied to CSA members :-) >t > 1 > ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h>o >-----------------------------4 >      For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.com*  --------------------------- pure personal# opinion --------------------------- L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ---w& Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.: Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).@ Version: 6.0.351 / Virus Database: 197 - Release Date: 4/19/2002   --- & Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.: Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).@ Version: 6.0.351 / Virus Database: 197 - Release Date: 4/19/2002   ------------------------------   Date: 6 May 2002 18:14:10 -0500a- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) A Subject: RE: Was OpenVMS V7.3 ever released for the VAX platform?h3 Message-ID: <Q20A9nnuy31G@eisner.encompasserve.org>C  _ In article <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIOELIEOAA.tom@kednos.com>, "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> writes:n >  >  >>-----Original Message-----; >>From: Hoff Hoffman [mailto:hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam]o  7 >>  Yes, OpenVMS VAX V7.3 is available and is shipping.a > H > My CSA kit, however, was missing the VAX CD.  Is this a suttle form of > social( > engineering applied to CSA members :-)  = What is subtle ?  CSA has never done anything to support VAX.   = Nobody here has claimed there are not VAX-only and Alpha-onlyd; kits for V7.3.  There are combined VAX/Alpha V7.3 kits, butm the separate kits also exist..   ------------------------------  $ Date: Mon, 6 May 2002 16:46:04 -0700# From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com>eA Subject: RE: Was OpenVMS V7.3 ever released for the VAX platform? 9 Message-ID: <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIGELMEOAA.tom@kednos.com>r   >-----Original Message-----i5 >From: Larry Kilgallen [mailto:Kilgallen@SpamCop.net]e# >Sent: Monday, May 06, 2002 4:14 PM3 >To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.ComB >Subject: RE: Was OpenVMS V7.3 ever released for the VAX platform? >O >J@ >In article <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIOELIEOAA.tom@kednos.com>, "Tom ! >Linden" <tom@kednos.com> writes:h >> C >> t >>>-----Original Message-----S< >>>From: Hoff Hoffman [mailto:hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam] >d8 >>>  Yes, OpenVMS VAX V7.3 is available and is shipping. >> lI >> My CSA kit, however, was missing the VAX CD.  Is this a suttle form ofi	 >> sociale) >> engineering applied to CSA members :-)o >e> >What is subtle ?  CSA has never done anything to support VAX. >O> >Nobody here has claimed there are not VAX-only and Alpha-only< >kits for V7.3.  There are combined VAX/Alpha V7.3 kits, but >the separate kits also exist.  = Yes, but it is listed as part of the kit in "Guide ot OpenVMSe/ Version 7.3 CD-ROMS"  Order Number: AA-QSBRE-TE - Software Version:			OpenVMS Alpha Version 7.3  					OpenVMS VAX Version 7.3  9 So are you suggesting the CSA culls the kits for VAX CDs?l >e >---' >Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. ; >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).eA >Version: 6.0.351 / Virus Database: 197 - Release Date: 4/19/2002  >  ---a& Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.: Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).@ Version: 6.0.351 / Virus Database: 197 - Release Date: 4/19/2002   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 06 May 2002 21:54:13 -0400n1 From: Michael Austin <maustin@firstdbasource.com>r; Subject: Re: Which newsservers (if any) run under tcpip5.1?s2 Message-ID: <3CD733C5.3EEE5A83@firstdbasource.com>   Tom Linden wrote:  > & > Has anybody ported INN, for example? > ---h( > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.< > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).B > Version: 6.0.351 / Virus Database: 197 - Release Date: 4/19/2002  = I am currently using DNEWS.. not too bad except that if it isr: downloading, it hangs the client.  Still working out, why. -- S Regards,  7 Michael Austin            Registered Linux User #261163,7 First DBA Source, Inc.    http://www.firstdbasource.comi Sr. Consultant 704-947-1089 (Office)  704-236-4377 (Mobile)    ------------------------------   Date: 6 May 2002 18:32:57 -0700e% From: rich_thurman@hotmail.com (Rich)f; Subject: Why is security so important in a VMS environment? = Message-ID: <f442d61d.0205061732.724a5263@posting.google.com>j  2 Why is security so important in a VMS environment?   ande  ; Why did VMS become a dominant Operating System in the earlyi) 80s and 90s and then fall into obscurity?t   Thanks in advance....g   Rich   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 07 May 2002 01:57:41 GMTk1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>h? Subject: Re: Why is security so important in a VMS environment?q' Message-ID: <3CD7379F.865C6A0A@fsi.net>    Rich wrote:p > 4 > Why is security so important in a VMS environment?  C Security is important in *ANY* environment. In VMS, however, it wasnF designed in from the start, not added on as an after thought as is the case with Micro$lop and UN*X.o  = > Why did VMS become a dominant Operating System in the earlyl+ > 80s and 90s and then fall into obscurity?t   Say: "marketing".    -- p David J. Dachterag dba DJE SystemsI http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/e   ------------------------------   Date: 6 May 2002 13:38:54 -0500r- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)y0 Subject: Re: WIS??? Did it die with the HP deal?3 Message-ID: <5NFQf7y5CGbI@eisner.encompasserve.org>p  P In article <00A0D878.84C5DB8F@SendSpamHere.ORG>, system@SendSpamHere.ORG writes:e > In article <i3iLKgBf$BxX@eisner.encompasserve.org>, Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) writes:<R >>In article <00A0D86F.422C593B@SendSpamHere.ORG>, system@SendSpamHere.ORG writes:N >>> I've been trying to check on issues I've reported via WIS.  However, thereN >>> doesn't seem to be a WIS since the start of the weekend.  Is this just the. >>> beginning of things to come under HP rule? >> >>What is WIS ?l > L > C'mon Larry, get with the times... Web Information and Support.  In simple% > terms, it is an HTTP based DSNlink.h  H The last time I had an opportunity to call the Telephone Support Center,H I ended up explaining to someone on their Pascal Team how programming in. Pascal works.  That was probably 20 years ago.   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 06 May 2002 19:12:01 GMT  From: system@SendSpamHere.ORGc0 Subject: Re: WIS??? Did it die with the HP deal?0 Message-ID: <00A0D898.CCEC9225@SendSpamHere.ORG>  c In article <5NFQf7y5CGbI@eisner.encompasserve.org>, Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) writes:nQ >In article <00A0D878.84C5DB8F@SendSpamHere.ORG>, system@SendSpamHere.ORG writes:gf >> In article <i3iLKgBf$BxX@eisner.encompasserve.org>, Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) writes:S >>>In article <00A0D86F.422C593B@SendSpamHere.ORG>, system@SendSpamHere.ORG writes:tO >>>> I've been trying to check on issues I've reported via WIS.  However, thereoO >>>> doesn't seem to be a WIS since the start of the weekend.  Is this just thet/ >>>> beginning of things to come under HP rule?  >>>u >>>What is WIS ? >> vM >> C'mon Larry, get with the times... Web Information and Support.  In simpleh& >> terms, it is an HTTP based DSNlink. >rI >The last time I had an opportunity to call the Telephone Support Center,yI >I ended up explaining to someone on their Pascal Team how programming inS/ >Pascal works.  That was probably 20 years ago.A  J I've submitted a few problems that have evoked non-answers.  Most of theseJ non-answers were just quick database search responses using some keywords K taken from my questions.  But, for the most part, I've had very good exper- ' iences dealing with the support center.c   --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COMm            a5   "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?" h   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 06 May 2002 19:54:18 GMTt* From: John Reagan <john.reagan@compaq.com>0 Subject: Re: WIS??? Did it die with the HP deal?) Message-ID: <3CD6DE35.7020704@compaq.com><   Larry Kilgallen wrote:   > J > The last time I had an opportunity to call the Telephone Support Center,J > I ended up explaining to someone on their Pascal Team how programming in0 > Pascal works.  That was probably 20 years ago.    B That is because Pascal is such a great compiler, the folks at the 0 support center don't get that many Pascal calls.   :-)    -- e John Reagans' Compaq Pascal/{A|I}MACRO Project Leader:   ------------------------------   Date: 6 May 2002 15:04:30 -0500s- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)c0 Subject: Re: WIS??? Did it die with the HP deal?3 Message-ID: <cXTecMal68AU@eisner.encompasserve.org>r  V In article <3CD6DE35.7020704@compaq.com>, John Reagan <john.reagan@compaq.com> writes: > Larry Kilgallen wrote: >  >> oK >> The last time I had an opportunity to call the Telephone Support Center, K >> I ended up explaining to someone on their Pascal Team how programming inx1 >> Pascal works.  That was probably 20 years ago.z >  > D > That is because Pascal is such a great compiler, the folks at the 2 > support center don't get that many Pascal calls. >  > :-)r  7 V1 was not :-), but that was from a different codebase.x  
 > John Reaganh) > Compaq Pascal/{A|I}MACRO Project Leaderr   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 07 May 2002 00:11:57 GMTa) From: rob.buxton@wcc.govt.nz (Rob Buxton)u0 Subject: Re: WIS??? Did it die with the HP deal?1 Message-ID: <3cd71af9.676779056@news.wcc.govt.nz>V  @ On Mon, 06 May 2002 14:14:38 GMT, system@SendSpamHere.ORG wrote:  K >I've been trying to check on issues I've reported via WIS.  However, theredK >doesn't seem to be a WIS since the start of the weekend.  Is this just the-+ >beginning of things to come under HP rule?- >-  E Not sure, the Aussie variant disappeared a few months ago during somefE kind of Web clean up / Removal of old  Digital pages. I logged a call0 and it was reinstated.  Just tried and it's still there.  @ You may need to log a call via other means to get in reinstated.   Robc   >--cP >VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM >           6 >  "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?"  >6   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 07 May 2002 01:30:13 GMT 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>i Subject: Re: X-Win32& Message-ID: <3CD73131.80BF7B2@fsi.net>   Fred Zwarts wrote: > X > <valdemir-@uol.com.br> wrote in message news:200205051818.PAA09670@wilde.uol.com.br... > Hello VMS gurus: > A >  In my job we are using X-Win32 to connect in our Sun machines,o= >  and Id like know if I can use X-win32 to connect with ourL@ >  VAXes machines. Reading X-win32 help I didnt find references >  about VMS systems.O >  Thanks in advance...7 > + > Yes it works. We use it here quite a lot.V  H The trick is to get the XDM service up and running. Check the doc.'s for@ your IP stack, or perhaps the on-line HELP for its configuration utility(-ies).   -- < David J. Dachtera- dba DJE Systems- http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/-   ------------------------------  $ Date: Mon, 6 May 2002 21:57:50 -0400* From: "Stanley F. Quayle" <stan@stanq.com> Subject: Re: X-Win32. Message-ID: <3CD6FC5E.23644.625874A@localhost>   > Fred Zwarts wrote: > > C > >  In my job we are using X-Win32 to connect in our Sun machines,SA > >  and I=B4d like know if I can use X-win32 to connect with ourcD > >  VAXes machines. Reading X-win32 help I didn=B4t find references > >  about VMS systems.r   Here's what I do:l  5 - Set up a session to use "rexec", with a command of:p 	"@sys$login:xwin *"  B - In the SYS$LOGIN (initial default directory) of the user, create,   the following command procedure, XWIN.COM:   $ SET NOVERIFY2 $user =3D f$edit(f$getjpi("", "USERNAME"), "TRIM"). $node =3D f$edit(f$trnlnm("sys$node"), "TRIM") $if p1 .eqs. "*" $ then7 $  binary_ip =3D f$logical("sys$rem_node") - "::" - "_""# $  octet_1 =3D binary_ip .and. %xFFw/ $  octet_2 =3D (binary_ip .and. %xFF00) / %x100p3 $  octet_3 =3D (binary_ip .and. %xFF0000) / %x10000 6 $  octemp =3D (binary_ip .and. %xFF000000) / %x1000000  $  octet_4 =3D octemp .and. %xFF7 $  p1 =3D "''octet_1'.''octet_2'.''octet_3'.''octet_4'"s $endif# $if p2 .eqs. "" then p2 =3D "WHITE" # $if p3 .eqs. "" then p3 =3D "BLACK"  $if p4 .eqs. "" then p4 =3D 30 $if p5 .eqs. "" then p5 =3D 40% $if p6 .eqs. "" then p6 =3D "''user'"e% $if p7 .eqs. "" then p7 =3D "DEFAULT"i $open/write f1 xterm.com $write f1 "$WAIT 00:00:2.00"J $write f1 "$SET DISPLAY/CREATE/NODE=3D",p1,"/TRANSPORT=3DTCPIP/SERVER=3D0"+ $write f1 "$CREATE/TERM=3DDECTERM/DETACH -"/2 $write f1 "  /WINDOW=3D(BACKGROUND=3D""''p2'"", -"0 $write f1            "FOREGROUND=3D""''p3'"", -", $write f1            "X_POSITION=3D''p4', -", $write f1            "Y_POSITION=3D''p5', -"2 $write f1            "TITLE=3D""''node'''p6'"", -"0 $write f1            "ICON=3D""''node'''p6'"", -$ $write f1            "FONT=3D''p7')"	 $close f1f
 $ set noon@ $ if f$search ("XTERM.COM") .nes. "" then purge/nolog/noconfirm 	 xterm.comp@ $ if f$search ("XTERM.LOG") .nes. "" then purge/nolog/noconfirm 	 xterm.logC@ $ if f$search ("XTERM.ERR") .nes. "" then purge/nolog/noconfirm 	 xterm.errf $run /detached -         /input=3Dxterm.com -         /output=3Dxterm.log -          /error=3Dxterm.err -#                 sys$system:loginout-    
 --Stan Quayle-! President, Quayle Consulting Inc.-  
 ----------G Stanley F. Quayle, P.E.   N8SQ   +1 614-868-1363   Fax: +1 614 868-1671q1 8572 North Spring Ct. NW, Pickerington, OH  43147l= Preferred address:  stan@stanq.com       http://www.stanq.com    ------------------------------   Date: 6 May 2002 13:52:01 -0500-- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)18 Subject: RE: ZIPped .PCSI container arrives OK on VMS???3 Message-ID: <kcmAvVH+ZZVb@eisner.encompasserve.org>l  _ In article <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIMEKLEOAA.tom@kednos.com>, "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> writes::2 > The logic in RESET_BACKUP_SAVESET_ATTRIBUTES.COM3 > is pretty simple, why not put it in BACKUP itself@6 > so that it can read savesets that have been modified5 > ftp?  I can imagine that this could be an internal _ > ON condition..  4 Why not use reliable transports in the first place ?  ? I am under the impression that at least some of the IP productsm? support preservation of file attributes over FTP.  MAIL/FOREIGN  should also work.    ------------------------------  $ Date: Mon, 6 May 2002 11:55:45 -0700# From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com>n8 Subject: RE: ZIPped .PCSI container arrives OK on VMS???9 Message-ID: <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIIELAEOAA.tom@kednos.com>h   >-----Original Message----- 5 >From: Larry Kilgallen [mailto:Kilgallen@SpamCop.net]e$ >Sent: Monday, May 06, 2002 11:52 AM >To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com9 >Subject: RE: ZIPped .PCSI container arrives OK on VMS???e >t >e@ >In article <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIMEKLEOAA.tom@kednos.com>, "Tom ! >Linden" <tom@kednos.com> writes:g3 >> The logic in RESET_BACKUP_SAVESET_ATTRIBUTES.COMa4 >> is pretty simple, why not put it in BACKUP itself7 >> so that it can read savesets that have been modifiedn6 >> ftp?  I can imagine that this could be an internal  >> ON condition. >,5 >Why not use reliable transports in the first place ?F >u@ >I am under the impression that at least some of the IP products@ >support preservation of file attributes over FTP.  MAIL/FOREIGN >should also work.  ? But that wouldn't solve the problem. ftp is pretty universal ine an heterogenous environment.   >h >---' >Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.d; >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).SA >Version: 6.0.351 / Virus Database: 197 - Release Date: 4/19/2002  >f ---i& Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.: Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).@ Version: 6.0.351 / Virus Database: 197 - Release Date: 4/19/2002   ------------------------------   Date: 6 May 2002 15:17:43 -0500l- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)r8 Subject: RE: ZIPped .PCSI container arrives OK on VMS???3 Message-ID: <r+dmmsZFrpId@eisner.encompasserve.org>   _ In article <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIIELAEOAA.tom@kednos.com>, "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> writes:e >  >  >>-----Original Message-----6 >>From: Larry Kilgallen [mailto:Kilgallen@SpamCop.net]% >>Sent: Monday, May 06, 2002 11:52 AM  >>To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comm: >>Subject: RE: ZIPped .PCSI container arrives OK on VMS??? >> >>A >>In article <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIMEKLEOAA.tom@kednos.com>, "Tom i" >>Linden" <tom@kednos.com> writes:4 >>> The logic in RESET_BACKUP_SAVESET_ATTRIBUTES.COM5 >>> is pretty simple, why not put it in BACKUP itself 8 >>> so that it can read savesets that have been modified7 >>> ftp?  I can imagine that this could be an internal h >>> ON condition.i >>6 >>Why not use reliable transports in the first place ? >>A >>I am under the impression that at least some of the IP products-A >>support preservation of file attributes over FTP.  MAIL/FOREIGNe >>should also work.  > A > But that wouldn't solve the problem. ftp is pretty universal ins > an heterogenous environment.  A And file attributes don't do you a whole lot of good on a non-VMSo system.T   ------------------------------  $ Date: Mon, 6 May 2002 13:36:21 -0700# From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com>n8 Subject: RE: ZIPped .PCSI container arrives OK on VMS???9 Message-ID: <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIEELFEOAA.tom@kednos.com>m   >-----Original Message-----u5 >From: Larry Kilgallen [mailto:Kilgallen@SpamCop.net]m# >Sent: Monday, May 06, 2002 1:18 PM  >To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com9 >Subject: RE: ZIPped .PCSI container arrives OK on VMS???a >A >a@ >In article <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIIELAEOAA.tom@kednos.com>, "Tom ! >Linden" <tom@kednos.com> writes:  >> - >> - >>>-----Original Message-----o7 >>>From: Larry Kilgallen [mailto:Kilgallen@SpamCop.net]n& >>>Sent: Monday, May 06, 2002 11:52 AM >>>To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com; >>>Subject: RE: ZIPped .PCSI container arrives OK on VMS???c >>>  >>>-B >>>In article <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIMEKLEOAA.tom@kednos.com>, "Tom # >>>Linden" <tom@kednos.com> writes:25 >>>> The logic in RESET_BACKUP_SAVESET_ATTRIBUTES.COM 6 >>>> is pretty simple, why not put it in BACKUP itself9 >>>> so that it can read savesets that have been modifiedc8 >>>> ftp?  I can imagine that this could be an internal  >>>> ON condition. >>>e7 >>>Why not use reliable transports in the first place ?d >>>sB >>>I am under the impression that at least some of the IP productsB >>>support preservation of file attributes over FTP.  MAIL/FOREIGN >>>should also work. >> >B >> But that wouldn't solve the problem. ftp is pretty universal in >> an heterogenous environment.r >AB >And file attributes don't do you a whole lot of good on a non-VMS >system.  C The source and the destination could both be VMS systems but if youi= have a Windows box in between, it will change the block size.G   >o >---' >Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. ; >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). A >Version: 6.0.351 / Virus Database: 197 - Release Date: 4/19/2002  >  ---f& Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.: Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).@ Version: 6.0.351 / Virus Database: 197 - Release Date: 4/19/2002   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 06 May 2002 21:16:30 GMTF2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) Subject: Re: ZTDRIVER.EXE39 Message-ID: <OoCB8.46$lj5.938005@cacnews.cac.cpqcorp.net>-  W In article <3CD17CA9.4090608@tsoft-inc.com>, David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> writes:a :Syltrem wrote:r :c :> OK OK OK:A :> I forgot to give OS version, machine type, color and scent :-|3 :> CL :> Mind me, I thought I would get a simple answer like "ZTDRIVER is a driverM :> for a XYZ model 64 platter CD changer" or something. Then knowing I DO NOT K :> have this device, I could just have tried to tell VMS not to look for its :> anymore.7     You have a DSW-series module.c  L :> Everything that needs to work on this system does work properly (not that+ :> the bad disk has been replaced that is).e :> ,' :> It`s a VAX 4100 running OpenVMS 7.1.L  H   No such beast.  I will assume you meant the VAX 4000 model 100 series.9   This system includes a DSW-series communications board.i    :> Hoff suggested:H :> On V6.0 and later OpenVMS VAX  releases, load DECnet-Plus and use the& :> optionally-configured WANDD support :>  N :> Now do I want to do this (I mean, what is WANDD all about and do I need it) :> ?8 :> Is there any simpler way to having the error go away.  B   Ignore the error, or remove the DSW-series board, or install andF   configure the WANDD stuff, or disable autoconfiguration and manuallyF   add everything else, or create a stub pseudo driver with enough code;   to permit its loading.  There are probably other options.i :t : F :The early MicroVAX 3100 series of systems had an optional board that F :supported some type of WAN connection.  I've never used it, and only  :know that it existed. nI :  If Hoff's guess is accurate, and if the VAX 4000 model 100 (you still i( :weren't specific enough on the model),      :-)   D :                               which may share components with the C :MicroVAX 3100 systems, has such an optional board installed, then nE :simply remove the board, and VMS will not see it, and will not look c :for a driver. :tD :If you cannot identify the board, get back to me.  I _MAY_ have an F :old VAXserver 3100 which has the optional board, and if so I can get  :some identification for you.0  D   The DSW42 series two-line sychronous communications controller wasF   supported on this box.  If you look at the back of the system, thereG   are two stacked asychronous connectors on the left, then two stacked dH   synchronous connectors toward the middle -- the synchronous connectors   are above the halt button.    N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------N       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.com    N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2002.251 ************************mple% > terms, it is an HTTP based DSNlink.h  H The last time I had an opportunity to call the Telephone Support Center,H I ended up explaining to someone on their Pascal Team how programming in. Pascal works.  That was probably 20 years ago.   ------------------------------z    z    z    z    z    z    z    z    z    z    z    z    z    z    z    z    z    z    z    z    z    z    z    z    z    z    z    z    z    z    z    z    z    z    z    z    z    z    z    z    z    z    z    z    z    z    z    z    z    z    z    z    z    z    z    z    z    z    z    z    z    z    z    z    z    z    z    z    z    z    z    z    z    z    z    z    z    z    z    z    z    z    z    z    z    z    z    z    z    z    z    z    z    z    z    z    z    z    z    z    z    z    z    z    z    z    z    z    z    z    z    z    z    z    z    z    z    z    z    z    z    z    z    z    z    z    z    z    