1 INFO-VAX	Wed, 08 May 2002	Volume 2002 : Issue 253       Contents: Re: (remaining) GBLPAGFIL  Re: (remaining) GBLPAGFIL  Re: (remaining) GBLPAGFIL & Re: Alpha to ia64: where is the issue?& Re: Alpha to ia64: where is the issue?& Re: Alpha to ia64: where is the issue?& Re: Alpha to ia64: where is the issue?3 Re: Alpha to ia64: where is the issue? (Compaq Ada) 3 Re: Capellas: Linux, Windows Will 'Eviscerate' Unix 3 Re: Capellas: Linux, Windows Will 'Eviscerate' Unix  Re: DCL Question  Re: Fix for EDT emulation in EVE) Forced migration to HPHUX - Storm Warning  HP Product Roadmap Re: HP Product Roadmap Re: HP Product Roadmap Re: HP Product Roadmap Re: HP Product Roadmap Re: HP Product Roadmap Re: HP Product Roadmap Re: HP Product Roadmap Re: HP Product Roadmap( HPQ More like IBM, except very different, Re: HPQ More like IBM, except very different, Re: HPQ More like IBM, except very different RE: license question RE: license question RE: license question8 Re: MacOS/X is the leading Unix (was "Itanium Troubles")' Re: Memo:  Help restoring a system disk ? Re: Old RAID 230 logical init very slow (63% done after 5 days) ? Re: Old RAID 230 logical init very slow (63% done after 5 days) ? Re: Old RAID 230 logical init very slow (63% done after 5 days) ; OT: Outlook Web Mail (was Re: CSWS / CSWB / MX Speculation) ? Re: OT: Outlook Web Mail (was Re: CSWS / CSWB / MX Speculation) 6 Powerstorm 4D40T Video Card w/AlphaStation 500 and VMS: Re: Powerstorm 4D40T Video Card w/AlphaStation 500 and VMS  Re: Removing AS1000A front panel  RE: Removing AS1000A front panel Re: Revisionist history  Re: Revisionist history  Re: Revisionist history  Re: Revisionist history  Re: Revisionist history  Re: Revisionist history  Re: Revisionist history ! Re: Sayonara DS10, new org charts ! Re: Sayonara DS10, new org charts ! Re: Sayonara DS10, new org charts / Scott Stallard, forget your VMS to HP UX dream! 3 Re: Scott Stallard, forget your VMS to HP UX dream! 3 RE: Scott Stallard, forget your VMS to HP UX dream! 3 Re: Scott Stallard, forget your VMS to HP UX dream!  Re: simh VAX VMS users?  Re: simh VAX VMS users?  Re: simh VAX VMS users?  Re: simh VAX VMS users?  Re: simh VAX VMS users?  Re: simh VAX VMS users?  Re: simh VAX VMS users?  Re: SMTP Usage Filter... Re: SMTP Usage Filter... Re: smtp.config ? & Re: software to produce histograms (?)3 Thanks for the Memory (was Re: Revisionist history) 7 Re: Thanks for the Memory (was Re: Revisionist history) ( Re: VMS Bigots Unite To Form New Company( Re: VMS Bigots Unite To Form New Company RE: VMS SCAN product RE: VMS SCAN product2 Re: Which newsservers (if any) run under tcpip5.1?6 Re: Why is security so important in a VMS environment?6 Re: Why is security so important in a VMS environment?6 Re: Why is security so important in a VMS environment?$ Re: www.compaq.com is link to hp.com$ Re: www.compaq.com is link to hp.com/ Re: ZIPped .PCSI container arrives OK on VMS??? * Re: [Q]Terminators in Terminal Driver QIOW* Re: [Q]Terminators in Terminal Driver QIOW2 [V5.1 ECO 3] NAME client hosed after domain change  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------   Date: 7 May 2002 20:33:13 -0700 " From: cstranslations@msn.com (Joe)" Subject: Re: (remaining) GBLPAGFIL= Message-ID: <d56d1c2d.0205071933.6788f113@posting.google.com>   F Technically (at this point) there's no compelling reason to go one wayD or the other (well - other than re-writing some code at this point).   Joe   k "Mark D. Jilson" <jilly@clarityconnect.com> wrote in message news:<3CD7DFDB.F81FC6B0@clarityconnect.com>... J > Why don't you use your own backing store file and not worry at all about > GBLPAGFIL ??   ------------------------------   Date: 7 May 2002 21:11:19 -0700 " From: cstranslations@msn.com (Joe)" Subject: Re: (remaining) GBLPAGFIL= Message-ID: <d56d1c2d.0205072011.654d9a75@posting.google.com>   d Jeffrey Chimene <jeff.nospam@systasis.net> wrote in message news:<3CD80671.78826CF5@systasis.net>...  + Things started out going through mailboxes.   F Without a lot of detail - there are a bunch of people running one of aF dozen of so applications on a PC on our intranet. Application connectsE via socket to a server, does some hand shaking, if the server is in a F benevolent mood it passes the work/info request off to the appropriate type of "worker."   F I think I stated earlier that the main process is the only one writingA to the section. This isn't entirely true. When one of the workers F processing a request finishes it writes a few quadwords to it's "part" of the global section.  & It comes down to (among other) things:   -too many mailboxes.  B -"two way" I/O through a single mailbox is complicated enough with? only one process on each end. Keeping two way I/O between (one) D process on one end and "a bunch" of processes on the other end is...= well a lot more complicated. See previous point about to many 
 mailboxes.? A dozen "types" of requests/workers = 24 mailboxes. One type of C request needs two mailboxes. One for the server to send data to the C appropiate "crowd" listening on the other end. One that the "crowd" ! uses to write back to the server.    Joe   ( > Not to engender a design review - but:F >     Did you investigate mailboxes? You brief description sounds like( > that *might* be a more efficient tool.F > Also, I recall using map to section from VAX BASIC, and all that wasE > required was to tell the compiler and linker to map a shared memory H > area. I think most DEC-based FORTRAN data collection routines also didI > the same thing. The only issue was to ensure that a writer had excusive J > access to the area; which access was coordinated using the Lock Manager. > E > I acknowledge you may have already investigated and discarded these  > solutions... > G > > Well to uh, make a long story short, I'm setting up a collection of G > > processes that will share information via a global section(s). When H > > (if) the process that creates and writes data (to be processed) intoG > > the section(s) can't create a section I would like to write as much H > > (current) "state" information as possible concerning what went wrong: > > for as many senarios as possible into the process log. > >  > --  microsoft free by 2003   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 08 May 2002 05:11:33 GMT 0 From: Jeffrey Chimene <jeff.nospam@systasis.net>" Subject: Re: (remaining) GBLPAGFIL, Message-ID: <3CD8B764.48650D99@systasis.net>  & --------------DE869606318A469B1FB9DCF4* Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   9 Well, I wish I'd had a hand in that original analysis ;-}   D You don't need that many mailboxes; such devices can be shared amongB multiple readers (which you know). For the benefit of others: eachA reader queues a read attention AST to the device; whoever gets an C AST wins, and they get to read the message. Once the request's been ) satisfied, the client queues another AST.   F Usually, the clients can be categorized (sounds like you have) and theH server needs to keep track of "mailboxes per category" (which you have).D The server only needs a single "response" mailbox. Again, the deviceC allows multiple writers. The drawback *may* be response time to the D client at the other end of the wire. Although, if you're on an Alpha5 with plenty of memory, I'd find that hard to believe.   > I would have assigned 13 mailboxes to service 12 client types.F Personally (and professionally), I wouldn't say that's a large number.H However, I do agree that reliably designing, writing and proving such anG implementation can be tricky. Of course, I think DECnet non-transparent 6 task-to-task communication software is fun to write...   -- microsoft free by 2003      & --------------DE869606318A469B1FB9DCF4) Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii  Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   > <!doctype html public "-//w3c//dtd html 4.0 transitional//en"> <html>> Well, I&nbsp;wish I'd had a hand in that original analysis ;-}G <p>You don't need that many mailboxes; such devices can be shared among G multiple readers (which you know). For the benefit of others:&nbsp;each F reader queues a read attention AST&nbsp;to the device; whoever gets anH AST&nbsp;wins, and they get to read the message. Once the request's been) satisfied, the client queues another AST. I <p>Usually, the clients can be categorized (sounds like you have) and the H server needs to keep track of "mailboxes per category" (which you have).I The server only needs a single "response"&nbsp;mailbox. Again, the device H allows multiple writers. The drawback *may*&nbsp;be response time to theI client at the other end of the wire. Although, if you're on an Alpha with 0 plenty of memory, I'd find that hard to believe.F <p>I&nbsp;would have assigned 13 mailboxes to service 12 client types.K Personally (and professionally), I&nbsp;wouldn't say that's a large number. J However, I&nbsp;do agree that reliably designing, writing and proving suchJ an implementation can be tricky. Of course, I think DECnet non-transparent6 task-to-task communication software is fun to write...
 <pre>--&nbsp;  microsoft free by 2003</pre>
 &nbsp;</html>   ( --------------DE869606318A469B1FB9DCF4--   ------------------------------   Date: 7 May 2002 13:53:41 -0500 - From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) / Subject: Re: Alpha to ia64: where is the issue? 3 Message-ID: <gvJKkebpC0sk@eisner.encompasserve.org>   W In article <3CD80CFB.CE733B7E@Free.fr>, Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@Free.fr> writes: G > What is to you the main problem(s) about the Alpha to ia64 migration?    Unavailability of Compaq Ada.    ------------------------------  * Date: Tue, 7 May 2002 20:58:32 +0000 (UTC), From: "pos" <paul.osullivan3@btinternet.com>/ Subject: Re: Alpha to ia64: where is the issue? / Message-ID: <ab9f5o$1ev$1@helle.btinternet.com>   / I await the bliss migration path with interest.   J And don't even start me on all the layered products. ISV's have lost theirH VMS coding skills (duh, what compilation flag is this - EV5), so if theyK don't even understand the original code, how the hell do you think they can  port anything across? : "Larry Kilgallen" <Kilgallen@SpamCop.net> wrote in message- news:gvJKkebpC0sk@eisner.encompasserve.org... 8 > In article <3CD80CFB.CE733B7E@Free.fr>, Didier Morandi  <Didier.Morandi@Free.fr> writes:I > > What is to you the main problem(s) about the Alpha to ia64 migration?  >  > Unavailability of Compaq Ada.    ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 7 May 2002 14:52:34 -0700- From: "Douglas B Rupp" <rupp@nospam_gnat.com> / Subject: Re: Alpha to ia64: where is the issue? - Message-ID: <3cd8505f.0@topcat.tabbygnat.com>   K However GNAT, the Gnu Ada compiler will be available and fully supported on 	 IA64 VMS.   K Ada Core Technologies recently completed some major performance enhancement  work on H GNAT for VMS under contract to Compaq and is pleased to report that GNAT generated codeD now performs comparably to DEC Ada (and in most cases better) on the applicable PIWG I tests on Alpha.  Most of the enhancements were not Alpha specific, and so  should also  benefit GNAT on IA64 VMS.    Douglas Rupp Ada Core Technologies, Inc   Larry Kilgallen writes:   H >> What is to you the main problem(s) about the Alpha to ia64 migration? >  >Unavailability of Compaq Ada.   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 08 May 2002 03:04:00 GMT 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> / Subject: Re: Alpha to ia64: where is the issue? ' Message-ID: <3CD898B0.FC0ED1CA@fsi.net>    Didier Morandi wrote:  > G > What is to you the main problem(s) about the Alpha to ia64 migration?   F The current lack of a viable, production-quality (to OVMS's standards) IPF CPU.   --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------   Date: 7 May 2002 19:21:01 -0500 - From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) < Subject: Re: Alpha to ia64: where is the issue? (Compaq Ada)3 Message-ID: <aaX33nDeqtBm@eisner.encompasserve.org>   ] In article <3cd8505f.0@topcat.tabbygnat.com>, "Douglas B Rupp" <rupp@nospam_gnat.com> writes: M > However GNAT, the Gnu Ada compiler will be available and fully supported on  > IA64 VMS.  > M > Ada Core Technologies recently completed some major performance enhancement 	 > work on J > GNAT for VMS under contract to Compaq and is pleased to report that GNAT > generated codeF > now performs comparably to DEC Ada (and in most cases better) on the > applicable PIWG K > tests on Alpha.  Most of the enhancements were not Alpha specific, and so 
 > should also  > benefit GNAT on IA64 VMS.  >  > Douglas Rupp > Ada Core Technologies, Inc >  > Larry Kilgallen writes:  > I >>> What is to you the main problem(s) about the Alpha to ia64 migration?  >> >>Unavailability of Compaq Ada.   E For me performance is not so much of an issue as an identical command F environment for building on VMS.  This has been available for years on VAX and Alpha.   But what is PIWG ?   ------------------------------   Date: 7 May 2002 23:12:58 GMT & From: peter@abbnm.com (Peter da Silva)< Subject: Re: Capellas: Linux, Windows Will 'Eviscerate' Unix- Message-ID: <ab9n1q$2bi@web.eng.baileynm.com>   3 In article <mG9Vjvksy6eO@eisner.encompasserve.org>, . Bob Koehler <koehler@encompasserve.org> wrote:H >    No, I haven't.  I do know they exist, except that I thought Solaris6 >    only ran on some PCs, no generic commodity types.  $ I guess you learned something, then.  C >    But the discussion was on "proprietary".  If you're suggesting C >    Solaris isn't proprietary to Sun then you're lost in the hype.   F It doesn't matter whether Solaris is proprietary to Sun or not, if youB can run the same software on Solaris on a commodity PC, or SolarisC on a Sparc, or Tru64 on commodity Alpha (yes, they exist, basically H commodity PCs with Alpha CPUs), or MacOS X, or Darwin on a commodity PC,G or AIX on a proprietary Power PC workstation, or Linux on a proprietary  Sparcstation, or ...  J Well, my choice tends to be FreeBSD on commodity PCs, Tru64 on proprietaryE Alphaservers, and OpenBSD on properietary Sparcstations and commodity L PCs. It's the same software, and I'm administering it with the same programsJ on all of them. Yeh, h|p|a|q ships dome kind of admin tools, but you don'tI need to use them... it's like buying a microwave and discovering that you J can still reheat a quiche in it even if it doesn't have a "quiche" button.  C >    Even my kid's Linux is available only from one vendor, runs on E >    only certain hardware, and can be managed only via that vendor's  >    choice of admin tools.   I It's his choice to use and learn those tools instead of ignoring them and ) editing the configuration files directly.   . >    If he had to change to another Linux he'd2 >    have to learn his admin stuff all over again.  L Which is a good reason to learn how to operate without them. Same reason you; should learn to drive in a manual rather than an automatic.    --  O I've seen things you people can't imagine. Chimneysweeps on fire over the roofs O of London. I've watched kite-strings glitter in the sun at Hyde Park Gate.  All L these things will be lost in time, like chalk-paintings in the rain.   `-_-'K Time for your nap.  | Peter da Silva | Har du kramat din varg, idag?    'U`    ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 08 May 2002 02:27:10 GMT 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> < Subject: Re: Capellas: Linux, Windows Will 'Eviscerate' Unix' Message-ID: <3CD8900C.7617423D@fsi.net>    Bob Koehler wrote: > X > In article <ab6sbv$170@web.eng.baileynm.com>, peter@abbnm.com (Peter da Silva) writes:7 > > In article <myakn8kA$vQW@eisner.encompasserve.org>, 2 > > Bob Koehler <koehler@encompasserve.org> wrote:J > >>    Since when?  I've never seen a UNIX that didn't have some vendor'sM > >>    proprietary stamp on it, was limitted to thier hardware, and required , > >>    the use of thier system admin tools. > > N > > I guess you've never seen Xenix, SCO UNIX, Solaris, ESIX, Unixware, or anyN > > other commercial UNIX that runs on commodity PCs. Some of these are fairlyN > > dependent on custom admin suites, yes, but most are quite happy to let youF > > manage them with generic plain text file and common command lines. > H >    No, I haven't.  I do know they exist, except that I thought Solaris6 >    only ran on some PCs, no generic commodity types.  B AFAIK, Solaris/Intel has a supported hardware list that is no moreD restrictive than OVMS-Alpha or OVMS-IPF. It runs on a limited set ofG hardware. Some "commodity" PCs may work for Solaris/Intel, just as someeG non-"DEC" Alpha mobos (and "white box" Alphas) may work for OVMS-Alpha.   H Really, the *BSDs and most Linux distro.'s have their supported hardware$ lists posted prominently on the web.   --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systemsa http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/P   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 08 May 2002 03:01:49 GMTy1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>i Subject: Re: DCL Questione& Message-ID: <3CD8982B.762B9BB@fsi.net>  
 Jon wrote: > H > Ok, I've got a DCL question that has stumped me for a while.  I've gotC > a piece of code that is attempting to located certain data on theoC > system (a code specific database) which could exist on any of the6G > mounted volumes.  I need to track to size of the database.  We've goteH > a logical that points to the location of the database.  It's simple toF > get that specific one, but there can be "extensions" to the database4 > which would create other logicals.  As an example: >  > $ sho log database*  >  > (LNM$PROCESS_TABLE)p >  > (LNM$JOB_80D13780) >  > (LNM$GROUP_000001) >  > (LNM$SYSTEM_TABLE) >  >   "DATABASE" = "$1$DKA0:"e >   "DATABASE_1" = "$1$DKA100:"i >   "DATABASE_2" = "$1$DKA200:"i >  > (LNM$SYSCLUSTER_TABLE) >  > (DECW$LOGICAL_NAMES) > $n > C > The problem lies in that the primary logical is there (database),tA > however, the extensions may or may not be there (depends on theH= > structuring of the data).  I've done some code where I do amC > "sho log database*/out=<Filename>" and attempted to parse out theXF > locations, but the quotes are causing me a problem.  Anyone have any; > suggestions as to the best way to get this info?  Thanks!S  G Well, if you want to keep using the "SHOW LOGICAL/OUT=" method, do thise when you read the file:i   $ READ/END=label lnm vbl $ TEMP = F$ELEM( 1, "=", vbl ) $ LNM_TRANS = 'TEMP'  ) If you want something a little "cleaner":w  
 $ cntr = 0 $loop: $ cntr = cntr + 1o $ lnm := database_'cntr' $ trans = f$trnlnm( lnm ) " $ if trans .nes. "" then goto loop  - Just some ideas. Expand on these as needed...i   -- r David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systemst http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 08 May 2002 02:10:25 GMTk1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>e) Subject: Re: Fix for EDT emulation in EVE?' Message-ID: <3CD88C22.8321B9DB@fsi.net>    Michael Zarlenga wrote:  > 1 > Alan E. Feldman <SPAMSINK2001@YAHOO.COM> wrote:tJ > : I agree that both EDT and EVE/tpu are useful. I use both. But I preferD > : the feel of EDT. And I mention the advantages of EDT mainly as aI > : counterpoint to those who say to just forget EDT and use only EVE and. > : TPU. > ? > You like only seeing 24 lines of text in a 50-line ws window?   C Well, speaking only for myself, I lived with VTs and R/2-DOS for sow, long, I don't really have a problem with it.   -- J David J. Dachterat dba DJE Systemst http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/o   ------------------------------  , Date: Wed,  8 May 2002 07:16:16 +0200 (CEST)! From: StormWatcher@helferlein.net02 Subject: Forced migration to HPHUX - Storm WarningD Message-ID: <3b183bebfa0318d908a286e631fd3a3d@remailer.segfault.net>   Storm Clouds brewing.e  D There must have been execs there with tails between the legs leaving wet trails on the pile carpet.  G Here is what the Control Masters don't get or wasn't clear in the stainr spots.  G They tried to force Affinity aka Assinity on us and of course it bombedn
 miserably.  L They coaxed and begged us to go to Tru64.  What a stupid place that would beC right now.  Imagine telling your management "Oops!", we now need tooN go to HPHUX.  And there are a few of those suckers.  You get what you deserve.K  Marvel will be at the top for a while.  They would like to strangle it buth8 they can't.  So when and why do VMS users move?  BecauseM they have to and they love HPHUX so much they go right for it.  I don't thinkeJ so.  Those tools for conversions, when do we use them?  After 2006.  Death; March timelines do not compute or make sense at all.  Theree( is no desire to migrate, don't force it.  I Carly thought she caught a lot of crap from Walter and those MPE wussies. < That was a pleasant stroll in the park on a warm spring day.  ) Cold front moving in over warm moist air.x   Storm Clouds brewing.    ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 7 May 2002 18:05:19 -0500/ From: "Stuart, Ed" <Ed.Stuart@austinenergy.com>c Subject: HP Product Roadmap T Message-ID: <92EFB80E551BD511B39500D0B7B0CDCC0642C3D7@ohms.electric.ci.austin.tx.us>  ' The HP Product Roadmap can be found at:d4 http://www.hp.com/hpinfo/newsroom/press/07may02b.htm  / There is one and only one reference to OpenVMS.n   -->EdtE **Please apply a generous amount of all the usual disclaimers here.**m   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 07 May 2002 23:21:33 GMTo1 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com>e Subject: Re: HP Product Roadmapc; Message-ID: <1kZB8.95042$WV1.28883107@typhoon.ne.ipsvc.net>   : "Stuart, Ed" <Ed.Stuart@austinenergy.com> wrote in messageL news:92EFB80E551BD511B39500D0B7B0CDCC0642C3D7@ohms.electric.ci.austin.tx.us. ..) > The HP Product Roadmap can be found at:c6 > http://www.hp.com/hpinfo/newsroom/press/07may02b.htm >W1 > There is one and only one reference to OpenVMS.d  ; Yep. No change to committed roadmap, products, or IPF port.e  J Whether HPQ plans to get stabilize the base and (try to) minimize customerI and ISV attrition, or whether the firm plans to try to grow the business,  remains to be seen.    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 07 May 2002 17:52:18 -0700e+ From: "Barry Treahy, Jr." <Treahy@mmaz.com>h Subject: Re: HP Product Roadmap ' Message-ID: <3CD876C2.4050902@mmaz.com>g  & --------------0201050901060601050303099 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowedp Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bitr     Terry C. Shannon wrote:l  ; >"Stuart, Ed" <Ed.Stuart@austinenergy.com> wrote in messageoM >news:92EFB80E551BD511B39500D0B7B0CDCC0642C3D7@ohms.electric.ci.austin.tx.us.s >. > ) >>The HP Product Roadmap can be found at: 6 >>http://www.hp.com/hpinfo/newsroom/press/07may02b.htm >>1 >>There is one and only one reference to OpenVMS.  >> >e< >Yep. No change to committed roadmap, products, or IPF port. >sD That is true, but there efforts to understate VMS rang out loud and D clear as it was limited to only a single sentance comment under the I 'Unix' section, as if they couldn't figure any better place to locate it.l  F I, for one, had hoped for a more robust and visionary commitment.  So  state that:   F "HP also will deliver on the previously announced Compaq OpenVMS^(TM) ( roadmap, including the port to Itanium."  E certainly doesn't make me warm and fuzzy nor does it convey and long rD term commitment to VMS or any attempt to grow that market segment...   Barryr   --    @ Barry Treahy, Jr  *  Midwest Microwave  *  Vice President & CIO   A E-mail: Treahy@mmaz.com * Phone: 480/314-1320 * FAX: 480/661-7028i      & --------------020105090106060105030309) Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii6 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bite   <html> <head> </head>  <body> <br> Terry C. Shannon wrote:<br>pQ <blockquote type="cite" cite="mid:1kZB8.95042$WV1.28883107@typhoon.ne.ipsvc.net">'t  <pre wrap="">"Stuart, Ed" <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:Ed.Stuart@austinenergy.com">&lt;Ed.Stuart@austinenergy.com&gt;</a> wrote in message<br><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="news:92EFB80E551BD511B39500D0B7B0CDCC0642C3D7@ohms.electric.ci.austin.tx.us">news:92EFB80E551BD511B39500D0B7B0CDCC0642C3D7@ohms.electric.ci.austin.tx.us</a>.<br>.<br></pre>   <blockquote type="cite">    <pre wrap="">The HP Product Roadmap can be found at:<br><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.hp.com/hpinfo/newsroom/press/07may02b.htm">http://www.hp.com/hpinfo/newsroom/press/07may02b.htm</a><br><br>There is one and only one reference to OpenVMS.<br></pre>     </blockquote>ta     <pre wrap=""><!----><br>Yep. No change to committed roadmap, products, or IPF port.<br></pre>      </blockquote>;I That is true, but there efforts to understate VMS rang out loud and clearnM as it was limited to only a single sentance comment under the 'Unix' section,;= as if they couldn't figure any better place to locate it.<br>i     <br>P I, for one, had hoped for a more robust and visionary commitment. &nbsp;So state that:sH     <p><abbr title="Hewlett-Packard">"HP</abbr> also will deliver on theW previously announced Compaq OpenVMS&#8482; roadmap, including the port to Itanium."</p>-I certainly doesn't make me warm and fuzzy nor does it convey and long termKC commitment to VMS or any attempt to grow that market segment...<br>-     <br>	 Barry<br>n     <br>6     <pre class="moz-signature" cols="$mailwrapcol">--   D Barry Treahy, Jr  *  Midwest Microwave  *  Vice President &amp; CIO   G E-mail: Treahy@mmaz.com * Phone: 480/314-1320 * FAX: 480/661-7028</pre>p     <br>     </body>-     </html>-  ( --------------020105090106060105030309--   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 08 May 2002 01:08:41 GMTt1 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com>e Subject: Re: HP Product Roadmapw; Message-ID: <tU_B8.95284$WV1.28984797@typhoon.ne.ipsvc.net>n  6 "Barry Treahy, Jr." <Treahy@mmaz.com> wrote in message! news:3CD876C2.4050902@mmaz.com...m   Terry C. Shannon wrote:)  2 "Stuart, Ed" <Ed.Stuart@austinenergy.com> wrote inL messagenews:92EFB80E551BD511B39500D0B7B0CDCC0642C3D7@ohms.electric.ci.austin .tx.us..  # The HP Product Roadmap can be foundgL at:http://www.hp.com/hpinfo/newsroom/press/07may02b.htmThere is one and only one reference to OpenVMS.e; Yep. No change to committed roadmap, products, or IPF port.e  L That is true, but there efforts to understate VMS rang out loud and clear asJ it was limited to only a single sentance comment under the 'Unix' section,9 as if they couldn't figure any better place to locate it.A  A I, for one, had hoped for a more robust and visionary commitment.b  I Yes, that would have been nice. And not all that difficult to articulate.y  G So state that: "HP also will deliver on the previously announced Compaq 1 OpenVMST roadmap, including the port to Itanium."VI certainly doesn't make me warm and fuzzy nor does it convey and long termo? commitment to VMS or any attempt to grow that market segment...   F Doesn't make me feel warm and fuzzy either (and it wasn't MY statement
 anyhow ;-} ).i  > The good news is, "First, do no harm." That much HPQ has done.  I The bad news is, IMHO, unless HPQ states that it will address OpenVMS ISVoI retention and recruitment issues, the OS will fall prey to benign neglectt  and ultimately to ISV attrition.  ) Ever hear the tale of an OS named MPE/iX?:   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 08 May 2002 03:43:47 GMTR0 From: Jeffrey Chimene <jeff.nospam@systasis.net> Subject: Re: HP Product Roadmap , Message-ID: <3CD8A2C4.6319EB71@systasis.net>  & --------------C18A80436C32FACC390073E3* Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bitt  H HP clearly intends no major push for VMS, simply maintain the "installedB base" The port to IA64 is clearly cheap enough that they can see aG "good" ROI from that base alone, with minimal investment in S&M. That's0E a shame. It's clear they're relying on Microsoft and XYZZY/64 to pullj4 their enterprise-systems bulldozer out of the ditch.  E It's also clear that DEC has already affected the S&M decisions: e.g.cG the push for "systems integration." Few major hadware vendors have beenrE able to simultaneously support direct channel and internal marketing.y   We are fuct.   -- microsoft free by 2003      & --------------C18A80436C32FACC390073E3) Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-asciir Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   > <!doctype html public "-//w3c//dtd html 4.0 transitional//en"> <html>H HP clearly intends no major push for VMS, simply maintain the "installedI base" The port to IA64 is clearly cheap enough that they can see a "good"hF ROI from that base alone, with minimal investment in S&amp;M. That's aI shame. It's clear they're relying on Microsoft and XYZZY/64 to pull theirt. enterprise-systems bulldozer out of the ditch.Q <p>It's also clear that DEC has already affected the S&amp;M decisions:&nbsp;e.g.fG the push for "systems integration." Few major hadware vendors have beensE able to simultaneously support direct channel and internal marketing.  <p>We are fuct.-
 <pre>--&nbsp;  microsoft free by 2003</pre>
 &nbsp;</html>@  ( --------------C18A80436C32FACC390073E3--   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 07 May 2002 23:27:05 -0400n( From: David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> Subject: Re: HP Product Roadmapo* Message-ID: <3CD89B09.30202@tsoft-inc.com>   Terry C. Shannon wrote:   8 > "Barry Treahy, Jr." <Treahy@mmaz.com> wrote in message# > news:3CD876C2.4050902@mmaz.com...y >  > Terry C. Shannon wrote:e > 4 > "Stuart, Ed" <Ed.Stuart@austinenergy.com> wrote inN > messagenews:92EFB80E551BD511B39500D0B7B0CDCC0642C3D7@ohms.electric.ci.austin
 > .tx.us.. > % > The HP Product Roadmap can be foundsN > at:http://www.hp.com/hpinfo/newsroom/press/07may02b.htmThere is one and only > one reference to OpenVMS.S= > Yep. No change to committed roadmap, products, or IPF port.  > N > That is true, but there efforts to understate VMS rang out loud and clear asL > it was limited to only a single sentance comment under the 'Unix' section,; > as if they couldn't figure any better place to locate it.s > C > I, for one, had hoped for a more robust and visionary commitment.a > K > Yes, that would have been nice. And not all that difficult to articulate.t > I > So state that: "HP also will deliver on the previously announced Compaqb3 > OpenVMST roadmap, including the port to Itanium."mK > certainly doesn't make me warm and fuzzy nor does it convey and long termtA > commitment to VMS or any attempt to grow that market segment...i > H > Doesn't make me feel warm and fuzzy either (and it wasn't MY statement > anyhow ;-} ).h    O At this stage of the game, if there would have been a seperate header for VMS, tK just 3 letters and 2 <CR>s, it would have been much better.  It would have  D stated that VMS was visible to HP, not just another item under Unix.  N Am I being picky?  Yes, definitely.  But that slight difference speaks rather O loudly.  To restate, the way it appeared, VMS is just another item in the Unix aD catagory.  I don't feel comfortable with people who see it that way.   Dave   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 08 May 2002 03:52:02 GMTh0 From: Jeffrey Chimene <jeff.nospam@systasis.net> Subject: Re: HP Product Roadmapi, Message-ID: <3CD8A4BB.43475CEF@systasis.net>  & --------------A314B054FD62450C769A86DD, Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit7  6 Don't statements like the following just piss you off?  F I like *nix no better than the next guy, but these people obviously do- not understand what they have on their hands. D Anyway, do you suppose they'll license OpenLook or OpenCall on Linux boxes?   > Middleware >eJ >                      Key Decisions: The new HP will be equally strong onH >                      UNIX, Windows and Linux-based servers, requiringM >                      middleware solutions to support all platforms. HP willmM >                      leverage key relationships that enhance the middlewareoD >                      stacks around both J2EE and .NET to deliver aC >                      comprehensive ecosystem for HP and partners'yL >                      application infrastructure components. In addition toL >                      building out value chains and ecosystems for the .NETI >                      and J2EE stacks separately, we will help customerseE >                      manage the heterogeneous stack environments bymM >                      providing key interoperability though our services ando/ >                      solutions organizations.u >o -- microsoft free by 2003      & --------------A314B054FD62450C769A86DD) Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-asciia Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bito  > <!doctype html public "-//w3c//dtd html 4.0 transitional//en"> <html>6 Don't statements like the following just piss you off?F <p>I like *nix no better than the next guy, but these people obviously0 do not understand what they have on their hands.H <br>Anyway, do you suppose they'll license OpenLook or OpenCall on Linux boxes? <blockquote TYPE=CITE> <pre>Middlewarea   &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Key Decisions: The new HP will be equally strong on &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; UNIX, Windows&reg; and Linux-based servers, requiring &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; middleware solutions to support all platforms. HP will" &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; leverage key relationships that enhance the middleware) &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; stacks around both J2EE and .NET to deliver a &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; comprehensive ecosystem for HP and partners'  &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; application infrastructure components. In addition to &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; building out value chains and ecosystems for the .NET &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; and J2EE stacks separately, we will help customersr &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; manage the heterogeneous stack environments by. &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; providing key interoperability though our services and, &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; solutions organizations.</pre>B
 </blockquote>i  
 <pre>--&nbsp;o microsoft free by 2003</pre>
 &nbsp;</html>O  ( --------------A314B054FD62450C769A86DD--   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 08 May 2002 03:57:13 GMTI0 From: Jeffrey Chimene <jeff.nospam@systasis.net> Subject: Re: HP Product Roadmaps, Message-ID: <3CD8A5F3.49E2D308@systasis.net>  & --------------1FC4816FB304736AE5FB4801* Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bits  E Here - develop this... How can they say "we support Linux" yet, offerJH the following commitement? I  like the "new way of thinking and working"D assertion. Just like "embrace and extend" - no wait... they don't do+ that... no-one reads messages on THAT list.    > Developers > G >                      Key Decisions: HP is deepening its commitment tooK >                      developers and is the right partner to work with foraG >                      J2EE and .NET tools, for management, UDC and IPFsO >                      development. HP is taking a leadership role to integrateeC >                      development and management through standards J >                      initiatives, developer tools, community/content andL >                      developer support products to simplify for developersL >                      this transition to a new way of thinking and working. >  -- microsoft free by 2003      & --------------1FC4816FB304736AE5FB4801) Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-asciif Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bitt  > <!doctype html public "-//w3c//dtd html 4.0 transitional//en"> <html>I Here - develop this... How can they say "we support Linux" yet, offer thenI following commitement? I&nbsp; like the "new way of thinking and working"aL assertion. Just like "embrace and extend" - no wait... they don't do that...- no-one&nbsp;reads messages on THAT&nbsp;list.h <blockquote TYPE=CITE> <pre>Developerso   &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Key Decisions: HP is deepening its commitment to- &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; developers and is the right partner to work with forC &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; J2EE and .NET tools, for management, UDC and IPFe &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; development. HP is taking a leadership role to integratem &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; development and management through standardsr &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; initiatives, developer tools, community/content and &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; developer support products to simplify for developers &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; this transition to a new way of thinking and working.</pre>
 </blockquote>-  
 <pre>--&nbsp;  microsoft free by 2003</pre>
 &nbsp;</html>,  ( --------------1FC4816FB304736AE5FB4801--   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 08 May 2002 05:26:56 GMT-* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> Subject: Re: HP Product RoadmapfB Message-ID: <AG2C8.103592$Ii2.9261787@bin2.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>  : "Stuart, Ed" <Ed.Stuart@austinenergy.com> wrote in messageL news:92EFB80E551BD511B39500D0B7B0CDCC0642C3D7@ohms.electric.ci.austin.tx.us. ..) > The HP Product Roadmap can be found at: 6 > http://www.hp.com/hpinfo/newsroom/press/07may02b.htm  " And truly a thing of wonder it is!  H Consider statements like "By the release of the third generation ItaniumL processor (Madison), HP will offer Itanium-based servers from the low end toI the high end of our product line, including HP NonStopT Itanium servers."n  K According to both Intel itself and zillions of Compaq road maps (whoops - IcK guess a Compaq road map may not be the solidest of citations after all...), K Madison will release next year.  IIRC, the projected port-complete date forqH NSK to Itanic was 2005.  Now, I understand that Carly can do *absolutelyH anything* she sets her mind to, but chopping close to two years out of aI four-year port is an accomplishment even for her:  isn't it wonderful howaE some top-level management attention at the detail level can get thosel. technical types to shape up and stop dawdling?  J And it certainly is reassuring to see all the places the word 'commitment' appears.  F I do remember reading in reviews of the road map that HP would migrateK Tru64's clustering and file system technology to HP/UX, but that's not what"L it actually says:  it simply offers these as two examples of Tru64 'advancedK features', and then states that some such features "will be integrated into>1 HP/UX over time."  Kind of careful wording, that.s  K Mostly, just a big yawn - as usually happens when non-technical types startCJ making technology-related pronouncements.  I guess if you were afraid yourK pet product would be cut, and it wasn't, there's some temporary relief, but J anyone want to bet that they'll stick to *everything* on this road map for even one year, let alone three?e   - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 07 May 2002 21:31:34 -0000s- From: wspencer@ap.nospam.org (Warren Spencer) 1 Subject: HPQ More like IBM, except very different/7 Message-ID: <9207BF376warrenspencer1977@209.249.90.100>t  G IIRC, part of the pitch for the merger is to become more like IBM, and  K compete with them head-on.  So first we dump Alpha (IBM equiv. Power), and s then this quote shows up:i   ___________oI http://www.crn.com/Sections/BreakingNews/BreakingNews.asp?ArticleID=35060c  D But Capellas said the "sweet spot" for the combined HP-Compaq is in H "customer support," not systems integration. "We are not in the systems I integration business," he said, adding that rather than emulate services aE monolith IBM Global Services, the new HP will be a friend to systems l
 integrators. m ___________z   ws   -- t   Warren Spencer' Senior Software Engineer (not a writer)  The Associated Press  < ** Time flies like an arrow.  Fruit flies like a bananna. **   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 08 May 2002 04:49:37 GMTa* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>5 Subject: Re: HPQ More like IBM, except very different2B Message-ID: <B72C8.103276$Ii2.9227230@bin2.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>  : "Warren Spencer" <wspencer@ap.nospam.org> wrote in message1 news:9207BF376warrenspencer1977@209.249.90.100... H > IIRC, part of the pitch for the merger is to become more like IBM, andL > compete with them head-on.  So first we dump Alpha (IBM equiv. Power), and > then this quote shows up:m >a
 > ___________CK > http://www.crn.com/Sections/BreakingNews/BreakingNews.asp?ArticleID=35060@ >tE > But Capellas said the "sweet spot" for the combined HP-Compaq is in2I > "customer support," not systems integration. "We are not in the systemsnJ > integration business," he said, adding that rather than emulate servicesF > monolith IBM Global Services, the new HP will be a friend to systems > integrators.  I Well, I guess cHomPaq is going to continue the fine Q tradition of saying H whatever they think people want to hear and not letting those statements& affect their actions in the slightest.  I When will people stop expecting these clowns to act like anything but the I sleazy incompetents they so obviously are?  From all appearances (and thedI merger battle offered plenty of evidence on the HP side), the Curly CrowdvI and the Carly Crew are true soulmates, so the Merging of the Managers andVF Changing of the Name really isn't going to make any difference in this regard.m   - bill   ------------------------------   Date: 8 May 2002 05:30:22 GMTm* From: "Ian King" <iking@killthewabbit.org>5 Subject: Re: HPQ More like IBM, except very differentt( Message-ID: <abad5e$58e$0@216.39.146.95>  K You have to wonder when they're going to finally 'fess up: their goal is toe% take over all those K-Mart stores....l  5 "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote in messager< news:B72C8.103276$Ii2.9227230@bin2.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com... >-< > "Warren Spencer" <wspencer@ap.nospam.org> wrote in message3 > news:9207BF376warrenspencer1977@209.249.90.100...jJ > > IIRC, part of the pitch for the merger is to become more like IBM, andJ > > compete with them head-on.  So first we dump Alpha (IBM equiv. Power), andc > > then this quote shows up:7 > >  > > ___________n > > I http://www.crn.com/Sections/BreakingNews/BreakingNews.asp?ArticleID=35060i > >aG > > But Capellas said the "sweet spot" for the combined HP-Compaq is intK > > "customer support," not systems integration. "We are not in the systemsML > > integration business," he said, adding that rather than emulate servicesH > > monolith IBM Global Services, the new HP will be a friend to systems > > integrators. >"K > Well, I guess cHomPaq is going to continue the fine Q tradition of sayingoJ > whatever they think people want to hear and not letting those statements( > affect their actions in the slightest. >1K > When will people stop expecting these clowns to act like anything but therK > sleazy incompetents they so obviously are?  From all appearances (and theiK > merger battle offered plenty of evidence on the HP side), the Curly Crowd K > and the Carly Crew are true soulmates, so the Merging of the Managers andsH > Changing of the Name really isn't going to make any difference in this	 > regard.  >m > - bill >  >y >    ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 7 May 2002 20:31:08 +0100- From: Martin Walker <Martin.Walker@csf.co.uk>  Subject: RE: license questionaB Message-ID: <0262A6086BFBD411959500508B69C5EA03433DD5@LONDON_EXCH>   I have been told...   I Unlimited licenses CAN now be transferred between machines (a license cang) only be active on one machine at a time).s  K A user based license which has the NO_SHARE attribute can be loaded on only3E one machine in a cluster.  Other user based licenses will, unless you 7 restrict them, be shared across all nodes in a cluster.:  G A license which does NOT bear the ALPHA attribute can be used on Vax orr Alpha.   -----Original Message-----/ From: David Froble [mailto:davef@tsoft-inc.com]s Sent: 02 May 2002 06:05m To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comn Subject: Re: license questiond     Robert Deininger wrote:t   > In article <MZSz8.154549$nc.21286476@typhoon.tampabay.rr.com>, "John N."><JNixon@cfl.rr.com> wrote:> > >>I have four Alpha departmental classmachines.  One of them has an unlimited>>user license, but could get by witha 16 user license.  Two of the Alhpas>>have 32 user licenses.  One of themneeds more licensed user seats. One of>>them Icould actually>>get rid of.One has a four user license, and will soon need more.>>>>Can I move theselicenses around as I see fit, or do I need to notify Compaq>>and/or pay a nysort of fees.>>> > You'll have to consult your specific license terms to becertain.That is of course the correct answer.> Generally speaking, alphauser licenses of recent vintage are pretty> portable amoung machines thatyou own.  Just don't register and load more> units than you are entitledto.The n-user licenses have gone through at least 3 generations.  The latest(as far as I'm aware) licenses, those with part numbers starting with Ibelieve 'MT3' are the ones that are portable.  I'm not really sure what  that' means, but tL I've taken it to mean that you can put the license on any VMS system, and at any L time remove it from that system and put it on another, Alpha or VAX.  Others may F be of the opinion that you need to register each transfer with Compaq.  L Also, I was told by a licensing person at Compaq that if you have one of the  L earlier n-user licenses under a maintenance contract, that an upgrade to the  J MT3* comparable license could be had for the asking.  If you have one on a VAX, .A do this and it's automatically eligible for transfer to an Alpha.2    I > The unlimited license can probably only be used on 1 machine at a time,HK > but I never had one so I'm not certain.  (I'd guess that an unlimited PAK-E > is NO_SHARE, so that it can only be loaded on 1 node in a cluster.)9 >   H Unlimited licenses have usually been tied to specific hardware, like the base o VMS license.   Dave      A This e-mail including any attachments is confidential and may be dF legally privileged. If you have received it in error please advise the@ sender immediately by return email and then delete it from your  system. ? All electronic communications with the Company may be monitored A in accordance with the UK Regulation of Investigatory Powers Act, , Lawful Business Practice Regulations, 2000. = If you do not consent to such monitoring, you should contact g the sender of the e-mail.hB The unauthorised use, distribution, copying or alteration of this C email is strictly forbidden. If you need assistance please contact mC Head Office on (+44)(0)870 749 9000 between 9:00 am and 5:30 pm GMTt   ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 7 May 2002 12:48:39 -0700# From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com>  Subject: RE: license questiont9 Message-ID: <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIGEOEEOAA.tom@kednos.com>    >-----Original Message-----t5 >From: Martin Walker [mailto:Martin.Walker@csf.co.uk]k% >Sent: Tuesday, May 07, 2002 12:31 PM  >To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com >Subject: RE: license question >  >r >I have been told... > J >Unlimited licenses CAN now be transferred between machines (a license can* >only be active on one machine at a time). >oL >A user based license which has the NO_SHARE attribute can be loaded on onlyF >one machine in a cluster.  Other user based licenses will, unless you8 >restrict them, be shared across all nodes in a cluster. >nH >A license which does NOT bear the ALPHA attribute can be used on Vax or >Alpha.o  J I don't know if you can do this if the activity field (H for AXP and F for VAX) is present.s   >s >-----Original Message-----s0 >From: David Froble [mailto:davef@tsoft-inc.com] >Sent: 02 May 2002 06:05 >To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com >Subject: Re: license question >; >s >Robert Deininger wrote: >sA >> In article <MZSz8.154549$nc.21286476@typhoon.tampabay.rr.com>,,< >"John N."><JNixon@cfl.rr.com> wrote:> > >>I have four Alpha@ >departmental classmachines.  One of them has an unlimited>>userC >license, but could get by witha 16 user license.  Two of the Alhpap? >s>>have 32 user licenses.  One of themneeds more licensed user;? >seats. One of>>them Icould actually>>get rid of.One has a four;C >user license, and will soon need more.>>>>Can I move theselicensesw? >around as I see fit, or do I need to notify Compaq>>and/or pay; > a;B >nysort of fees.>>> > You'll have to consult your specific license: >terms to becertain.That is of course the correct answer.>= >Generally speaking, alphauser licenses of recent vintage are;G >pretty> portable amoung machines thatyou own.  Just don't register andsC > load more> units than you are entitledto.The n-user licenses have;? >gone through at least 3 generations.  The latest(as far as I'mn@ >aware) licenses, those with part numbers starting with Ibelieve> >'MT3' are the ones that are portable.  I'm not really sure wh >atn > that >means, but;> >I've taken it to mean that you can put the license on any VMS >system, and atn >any@ >time remove it from that system and put it on another, Alpha or
 >VAX.  Others; >mayG >be of the opinion that you need to register each transfer with Compaq.n >;B >Also, I was told by a licensing person at Compaq that if you have >one of thes >n> >earlier n-user licenses under a maintenance contract, that an >upgrade to thes >nK >MT3* comparable license could be had for the asking.  If you have one on an >VAX,sB >do this and it's automatically eligible for transfer to an Alpha. >  >sJ >> The unlimited license can probably only be used on 1 machine at a time,L >> but I never had one so I'm not certain.  (I'd guess that an unlimited PAKF >> is NO_SHARE, so that it can only be loaded on 1 node in a cluster.) >> >-I >Unlimited licenses have usually been tied to specific hardware, like the  >basee
 >VMS license.0 >7 >DaveI >r >  >fA >This e-mail including any attachments is confidential and may bedG >legally privileged. If you have received it in error please advise the1@ >sender immediately by return email and then delete it from your >system.@ >All electronic communications with the Company may be monitoredB >in accordance with the UK Regulation of Investigatory Powers Act,, >Lawful Business Practice Regulations, 2000.= >If you do not consent to such monitoring, you should contactt >the sender of the e-mail.B >The unauthorised use, distribution, copying or alteration of thisC >email is strictly forbidden. If you need assistance please contactpD >Head Office on (+44)(0)870 749 9000 between 9:00 am and 5:30 pm GMT >E >---' >Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. ; >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). A >Version: 6.0.351 / Virus Database: 197 - Release Date: 4/19/2002n >h --- & Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.: Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).@ Version: 6.0.351 / Virus Database: 197 - Release Date: 4/19/2002   ------------------------------   Date: 7 May 2002 14:47:00 -0500o- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)- Subject: RE: license questionB3 Message-ID: <ZxMeOIz8Stxn@eisner.encompasserve.org>t  r In article <0262A6086BFBD411959500508B69C5EA03433DD5@LONDON_EXCH>, Martin Walker <Martin.Walker@csf.co.uk> writes: > I have been told...   I > A license which does NOT bear the ALPHA attribute can be used on Vax or  > Alpha.  B That was how I thought it should work when Alpha was released, butA they chose to do it differently.  I don't see how they can changeTA now, since third parties have based their licensing policy on thes former behavior.   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 07 May 2002 19:03:36 GMT;; From: "Atlant G. Schmidt" <Atlant.Schmidt@YouKnowWhere.com>eA Subject: Re: MacOS/X is the leading Unix (was "Itanium Troubles");0 Message-ID: <3CD825E5.323DC161@YouKnowWhere.com>   Larry Kilgallen wrote:  e > In article <3CD6D20C.77453330@mindspring.com>, Atlant Schmidt <atlantnospam@mindspring.com> writes:; >sJ > > But since the first of this year, MacOS/X is not only pre-installed onD > > *EVERY* Macintosh shipped worldwide, it is the default operatingB > > system. The user now must pro-actively choose to de-select it. >nB > You seem to discount the possibility that significant numbers of > user do that.s  D In his keynote at WWDC (Apple's World-Wide Develeopers' Conference),N yesterday, Steve Jobs reports 1 million active users with the expectation of 5O million by year-end. In another report on Cnet, Apple reported 1.5 to 2 millionsJ active OS/X users. And my wife, a former PC partisan, now says things like. "You can take away my OS/X when you pry my..."  < All in all, I'd say the roll-out is going pretty nicely. :-)  G Me, I'd like to see Apple port it to IBMs Power4 multiprocessors, say anC P690 (seeing as to how PowerPC is upwards-compatible to Power). Now;G *THAT* would be one butt-kicking Mac! Photoshop filters finished before K you even click the "OK" button. Think anyone can justify a several-hundred-f thousand-dollar Mac??? :-)   Atlant   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 07 May 2002 16:43:47 -0400-( From: David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>0 Subject: Re: Memo:  Help restoring a system disk, Message-ID: <3CD83C83.2040204@tsoft-inc.com>  O You haven't given much in the way of relavent details.  Mfg and model # of all nQ disks.  I'm assuming that you're aware of SCSI IDs, and haven't got a duplicate. tC   (Actually, this is high on the suspect list for what you report.)   P Posting the output from SHOW CONFIG and SHOW DEV at the console prompt would be M helpful.  Note, I don't have a DPW type system, and may not have the correct a console commands.d  L As for jumpers on the disks, for many of such there is complete information A available from the manufacturers, ie; Seagate, Quantum, and such.d  2 Which pin is bent is also a rather large question.   Dave     paul.beaudoin@hsbc.com wrote:a    > A tale of woe and frustration:J > After adding a few disks to my system, one error compounding another has& > left me without a system at present.	 > Basics:n* >      DPW 500au  VMS 7.3  9GB system diskM > The disks added were 2 x 4.3 GB disks added to the front bay and while they G > were not the right physical format (a bit tall and too skinny)  a fewpK > screws and gaffer's tape secures them well. They worked just fine but thee1 > system disk could not be accessed after reboot.y > Error:= >      Media is not present or disabled by Run/Stop switch...  > M > This is at console level. Disk appears OK and test scsi produces same errore: > and interestingly enough reports this disk as a printer! > J > Not being sure what the error meant, I installed a new version of VMS on? > one of the new disks and booted it. This worked fine (Whew!).eL > The ex system disk showed up on a Sho Dev but would not mount. Same error. > I > Being of sound mind and having backups, I proceeded to restore a recentnJ > backup of the system onto the other of the new disks. The restore worked > without error.L > Booting off this disk starts as normal but hangs with the last line on the  > screen reading something like: >      Starting QIO$CONFIGUREaM > I tried booting minimum with the same result but left it and after about 100K > min, VMS crashes. Being on a VT320 I was unable to see the primary reasonH) > for crash. The dump is in the pagefile.e >  > It boils down to 3 questions:@4 > What is wrong with the original system disk? (9GB)4 > What is wrong with the new system disk? (restored)M > How do I access the crash dump on the restored disk's pagefile? I can still  > boot the newly installed VMS./ > & > Additional/significant/red herrings: > K > I noticed a bent pin on the 9GB disk when inspecting it. It is possible IPG > have pulled a jumper off by accident and this is the Run/Stop switch?iI > The backup was made with the system up and using the /IGNORE=INTERLOCK.lM > Also a /VERIFY. The verification pass only complained about log files. Notes9 > this is a two node cluster and this is the common disk.nK > The disks keep disappearing from the console. Upon power up all is normal*K > but after an init only the CD shows up. A power down and up brings it all-I > back.. This may be as I normally have a 'pizza box' attached and wasn'tbD > during initial testing. The 'b' side of the scsi was therefore notL > terminated. Could this have affected the 'a' side? This is a minor issue -K > I have always found this console to be a bit weird - If I don't init on aaI > reboot VMS crashes very late into the boot. Never figured it out and itrL > always works after init (and always fails without). Firmware upgraded some( > 6 months ago. Not sure of the version. > J > Any ideas/ advice / help is most gratefully received. I already know theH > moral: This is what happened when you give a programmer a screwdriver. > 
 > Many thanksi >  > Paul >  >  >  >  > ) > ** HSBC's website is at www.hsbc.com **e > F > ********************************************************************D >  This message and any attachments are confidential to the ordinaryD >  user of the e-mail address to which it was addressed and may also@ >  be privileged. If you are not the addressee you may not copy,: >  forward, disclose or use any part of the message or itsE >  attachments and if you have received this message in error, pleasehD >  notify the sender immediately by return e-mail and delete it from >  your system.r > ? >  Internet communications cannot be guaranteed to be secure oreC >  error-free as information could be intercepted, corrupted, lost,a@ >  arrive late or contain viruses. The sender therefore does notA >  accept liability for any errors or omissions in the context of A >  this message which arise as a result of Internet transmission.  >   F >  Any opinions contained in this message are those of the author and A >  are not given or endorsed by the HSBC Group company or office o? >  through which this message is sent unless otherwise clearly aC >  indicated in this message and the authority of the author to so t5 >  bind the HSBC entity referred to is duly verified.$ > F > ******************************************************************** >    ------------------------------   Date: 7 May 02 11:26:38 PST0 From: mckinneyj@cpva.saic.comtH Subject: Re: Old RAID 230 logical init very slow (63% done after 5 days)( Message-ID: <7ItIBV0oCs$h@cpva.saic.com>  A In article <1020775162.3169.0.nnrp-01.9e989e7e@news.demon.co.uk>, 7  "Chris Sharman" <chris.sharman@ccagroup.co.uk> writes:e > 9 > "Chuck Chopp" <ChuckChopp@rtfmcsi.com> wrote in messagei& > news:3CD7BBFB.8070109@rtfmcsi.com... >> Chris Sharman wrote:e! >> > Any suggestions appreciated..@ >> > Time is (fortunately) not critical at present for this box.9 >> I just had to tangle with one of these not long ago...G >>E >> 1)  Make sure that your AlphaServer is up to date w/respect to its" > firmware.u > J > Installed the latest (5.9 firmware update CD which came with the 7.3 VMS > kit).e > D >> 2)  Make sure that your SWXCR card is up to date w/respect to itsK >> firmware and the version of the Raid Confinguration Utility that you are  >> using to configure it.l > ; > Doesn't the firmware CD do the SWXCR card automatically ?nL > I wondered about the RAID software, but I don't know where to get updates, > or whether there are any.a  	 Check outaP  ftp://ftp.digital.com/pub/Digital/Alpha/firmware/readmes/v6.2/utility/swxcrmgr/  I > I've got a few floppies: RAID array 200 s/w V2.2 for vms - AK-QGTMC-CA.-L > The standalone s/w bills itself onscreen as Config Utility V3.11 04/05/95, > Firmware V2.36.aL > The floppy that's in the machine is labelled AK-Q6TFE-CA (that's all I can > read without ejecting it).M > Is any of this shipped with VMS or layered product CD dist, or via internete > ?  > J >> 3)  Even if you don't have battery backup for the cache RAM on the RAIDF >> controller, change the caching policy from write-thru to write-backJ >> while you are initializing the logical drives and while you are copyingI >> data onto them.  After those tasks are done, go back in and change theNE >> policy back to write-thru, provided that you don't have the batteriE >> backup module.  This change in caching policy drastically improvest< >> performance of write activities on RAID-5 logical drives. > I > Ah, yes - that would make a big difference. Possibly that's a lot of myn
 > problem.L > 4Gb was as big as disks got when we bought this kit - the 9Gb disks were a > much later addition. > H >> Also, of note, the KZPSC-xx controllers [and KZESC-xx] let you createI >> very large volume groups that are greater than 32GB in size, but thereeK >> is a limit to how large a logical drive you can create.  The RCU program J >> sets the maximum size at 32,768 MB, but OpenVMS' DRDRIVER device driverG >> can only handle logical drives on these cards with a maximum size of E >> 32,000 MB [65,535,000 disk blocks under OpenVMS "SHOW DEVICE/FULL"aG >> command].  If you exceed the size that OpenVMS supports then certainiM >> write activities on the large volume will cause a system bugcheck & crash.t > $ > No plans to exceed 9Gb at present. > 	 > Thanks,d > Chrisu >  >  -- h - Jime   ------------------------------   Date: 7 May 2002 13:39:58 -0500e9 From: kaplow_r@eisner.encompasserve.org.mars (Bob Kaplow)aH Subject: Re: Old RAID 230 logical init very slow (63% done after 5 days)3 Message-ID: <OxFnbCQpQR36@eisner.encompasserve.org>n  y In article <1020769806.27115.0.nnrp-12.9e989e7e@news.demon.co.uk>, "Chris Sharman" <chris.sharman@ccagroup.co.uk> writes: > > I've dusted off & powered up our old 2100A 5/300 + RAID 230.) > I've installed a clean copy of VMS,etc.a= > I've booted from the RAID floppy, and reconfigured my RAID. : > (We used to have 6 2Gb mirror sets, + 2 9Gb JBOD disks).N > I deleted the JBOD disks & the last mirror set, and created a 9Gb mirror set > + two 2Gb hot spares.cK > It wanted me to initialise the 9Gb set, and I wanted to reinitialise 4 ofb. > the 5 mirror sets (all but the system disk).M > The docs said it could do several at a time, and I thought it might be moreN* > efficient, so I set it going (Thursday).N > It started well enough, and I figured I'd come back in a couple of hours and > see how it was going.eJ > By the end of the day, it looked like it would need overnight to finish.L > By the following morning (Friday) it seemed to be going slower, and by theN > end of Friday I hoped the bank holiday would give it time to finish (the 2Gb' > sets were on 70-80%, the 9Gb on 20%).nL > This morning (Tuesday), the 2Gb sets are finally all done, but the 9Gb set# > is on 63%, and still progressing.s1 > Is this for real, or is there something wrong ?oN > I'm loathe to reboot, because I might lose the configuration (which I didn'tK > save to floppy before the initialisation), and I might wind up restartingc' > the week-long initialisation process.a >  > Any suggestions appreciated.= > Time is (fortunately) not critical at present for this box.-  > Let me make a wild guess here, based on my ancient experience:  K Your console terminal is a VTxxx terminal, not a graphics terminal. And theL2 lights on the drive aren't blinking that heavilly.  K If so, try it again from a GRAPHIC console. In VT mode, it spends somethingSJ like 99% of its time repainting the screen, and maybe 1% of its time doing
 the INIT!   J The first time I encountered a SWXCR I ran into this very problem. After aD day, it was still working on what should have taken at most an hour.9 Switching to the graphic console and it went MUCH faster.S  C         We need to ensure that actions by our government uphold the F         principles of a democratic society, accountable government andG         international law, and that all decisions are taken in a manneri)         consistent with the Constitution.o4                                                     1 	26-October, 2001: A day that will live in infamyr4 	Support Freedom: http://www.indefenseoffreedom.org/   ------------------------------   Date: 7 May 2002 12:47:46 -0700m+ From: mclaughlin@vfna.com (mike mclaughlin)bH Subject: Re: Old RAID 230 logical init very slow (63% done after 5 days)= Message-ID: <fcb54070.0205071147.515ee113@posting.google.com>I   Chris,H    i had this situation happen to me 1 time. It turned out that i wasn'tG running the correct config utility. i was using the swxcrmgr utility to>6 a vt terminal... it ran successfully but took forever.=   if you're using a vt terminal the utility to use is SRLMGR.a) SWXCRMGR is for a graphic monitor only.  o
 good luck. /mikeh   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 08 May 2002 02:45:51 GMT 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>nD Subject: OT: Outlook Web Mail (was Re: CSWS / CSWB / MX Speculation)' Message-ID: <3CD8946F.19023E2D@fsi.net>p   "Craig A. Berry" wrote:i > F > hate to say it, but Microsoft Outlook Web Access is a very well done@ > implementation of a fully functional mail client done as a web > application. n   Do you know:  H Is there a version of Outlook web mail that allows the use of folders in< the contact view? Whatever version we have at work does not.   -- a David J. Dachteray dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 07 May 2002 23:51:38 -0500XC From: "Craig A. Berry" <craig.berry@nospam.SignalTreeSolutions.com>rH Subject: Re: OT: Outlook Web Mail (was Re: CSWS / CSWB / MX Speculation)H Message-ID: <craig.berry-F2E808.23513807052002@news.directvinternet.com>  ' In article <3CD8946F.19023E2D@fsi.net>,s3  "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote:s   > "Craig A. Berry" wrote:  > > H > > hate to say it, but Microsoft Outlook Web Access is a very well doneB > > implementation of a fully functional mail client done as a web > > application. I >  > Do you know: > J > Is there a version of Outlook web mail that allows the use of folders in> > the contact view? Whatever version we have at work does not.  D It appears to be possible with Exchange 5.5 SP4, though it's pretty H darn awkward.  There is a move/copy folder button, and though it is not E visible in Contacts view you can create a folder in another view and eD move it into your Contacts folder using the move/copy button (which 7 looks like a piece of paper being stuffed in a folder).o   ------------------------------  " Date: Tue, 7 May 2002 22:04:07 GMT, From: Eric Elfner <eric.g.elfner@boeing.com>? Subject: Powerstorm 4D40T Video Card w/AlphaStation 500 and VMSt* Message-ID: <3CD84F57.650F98C9@boeing.com>  F I would appreciate any information regarding the use of the PowerstormF "Cateyes" 4D40T Video Board, in an AlphaStation 500, running VMS 7.2. B Motif won't run on the card and returns error message "No graphics@ adapter found".  The current system configuration is as follows:  1 	1) The board occupies Slots 11 and 12 on Bus 00.r2 	2) The VGA disable jumper is open (not jumpered).   Thanks in advance.   Eric Elfner  Boeing MA&MS 206-655-8107 206-655-5358   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 08 May 2002 01:09:19 GMT3. From: peter@langstoeger.at (Peter LANGSTOEGER)C Subject: Re: Powerstorm 4D40T Video Card w/AlphaStation 500 and VMS05 Message-ID: <3V_B8.172895$vc2.2003187@news.chello.at>j  Y In article <3CD84F57.650F98C9@boeing.com>, Eric Elfner <eric.g.elfner@boeing.com> writes:eG >I would appreciate any information regarding the use of the PowerstormaG >"Cateyes" 4D40T Video Board, in an AlphaStation 500, running VMS 7.2. cC >Motif won't run on the card and returns error message "No graphics A >adapter found".  The current system configuration is as follows:t >h2 >	1) The board occupies Slots 11 and 12 on Bus 00.3 >	2) The VGA disable jumper is open (not jumpered).i  D VMS doesn't support this card. Just like the 4D50T, 4D51T and 4D60T.: Replace it with a 3D30 or 4D20 or write your own driver...   -- h Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGERo% Network and OpenVMS system specialisth E-mail  peter@langstoeger.atP A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm looking for (a) Network _and_ VMS Job(s)   ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 7 May 2002 13:03:55 -0700* From: "Alder" <MUNDDGNTDYTV@spammotel.com>) Subject: Re: Removing AS1000A front panel + Message-ID: <3cd8332d$1@obsidian.gov.bc.ca>i  E Thank you Colin.  Your reply should win an award for thoroughness andr helpfulness.:-Di  I I think that in case of nuclear attack I'll be crouching down inside this  thing.   Cheers,  Alders  F "Colin Butcher" <colinDOT.butcher@xdeltaDOT.coDOT.uk> wrote in message; news:eqMB8.31875$%1.3544808@news-binary.blueyonder.co.uk...eH > There are 3 more screws under the hinged side of the door. You need toK > remove the door to gain access to them - do that by pushing the hinge pinr upI > through the top edge of the door and be careful not to lose the spring.. > I > There are yet more screws which come in from behind - take off the sideiE > panels to gain access to them. The side panels come off once you'vee removedoK > the top panel by sliding it backwards - carefully so as not to crunch thek! > wiring to the interlock switch.h >bL > Fixing the door lock is a pain - the biggest hassle is getting it all backK > together after you've made up and fitted new hinge pins. My first attempt-J > used "super glue" to fix back the broken plastic pins. My second (ratherL > more successful) attempt uses tiny steel screws with the heads removed andK > the screw bonded into the body of the door lock by screwing them in whilee! > hot enough to melt the plastic.i >.! > See manuals in PDF available at J > http://www.compaq.com/alphaserver/archive/1000a/1000a_tech.html for more > information. >t > -- > Hope this helps. > Colint% > (colinDOTbutcherATxdeltaDOTcoDOTuk)o >l >r7 > "Alder" <PGDEHMKOKIMD@spammotel.com> wrote in messagey( > news:3CD72289.4020603@spammotel.com... > > [NEWBIE ALERT] > >jK > > The AS1000A (pedestal model) I just got has a broken door lock I'd likelD > > to fix, which will require that I remove the front panel.  AfterH > > removing the 3 screws located below the top-panel lock, I ran out ofH > > clues on how to proceed.  Can anyone help me find the hidden screws? > >  > > Many thanks, > >m	 > > Aldero > >h >  >e   ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 7 May 2002 16:32:41 -0400* From: WILLIAM WEBB <WWEBB1@email.usps.gov>) Subject: RE: Removing AS1000A front paneli- Message-ID: <0033000063038794000002L042*@MHS>(   =0AWhat!  No thermite?   WWWebb     -----Original Message-----/ From: Info-VAX-Request@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNETy# Sent: Tuesday, May 07, 2002 4:09 PM B To: Webb, William W Raleigh, NC; Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNET) Subject: RE: Removing AS1000A front panelv    E Thank you Colin.  Your reply should win an award for thoroughness and  helpfulness.:-Di  H I think that in case of nuclear attack I'll be crouching down inside th= is thing.   Cheers,n Alder   F "Colin Butcher" <colinDOT.butcher@xdeltaDOT.coDOT.uk> wrote in message; news:eqMB8.31875$%1.3544808@news-binary.blueyonder.co.uk....H > There are 3 more screws under the hinged side of the door. You need t= onH > remove the door to gain access to them - do that by pushing the hinge=  pin upH > through the top edge of the door and be careful not to lose the sprin= g. >nH > There are yet more screws which come in from behind - take off the si= deE > panels to gain access to them. The side panels come off once you'vet removediH > the top panel by sliding it backwards - carefully so as not to crunch=  the! > wiring to the interlock switch.e > H > Fixing the door lock is a pain - the biggest hassle is getting it all=  back?H > together after you've made up and fitted new hinge pins. My first att= emptH > used "super glue" to fix back the broken plastic pins. My second (rat= heriH > more successful) attempt uses tiny steel screws with the heads remove= d andtH > the screw bonded into the body of the door lock by screwing them in w= hile! > hot enough to melt the plastic.R >S! > See manuals in PDF available at H > http://www.compaq.com/alphaserver/archive/1000a/1000a_tech.html for m= orei > information. >c > -- > Hope this helps. > Colin % > (colinDOTbutcherATxdeltaDOTcoDOTuk)t >c >o7 > "Alder" <PGDEHMKOKIMD@spammotel.com> wrote in message ( > news:3CD72289.4020603@spammotel.com... > > [NEWBIE ALERT] > > H > > The AS1000A (pedestal model) I just got has a broken door lock I'd = likeD > > to fix, which will require that I remove the front panel.  AfterH > > removing the 3 screws located below the top-panel lock, I ran out o= feH > > clues on how to proceed.  Can anyone help me find the hidden screws= ?a > >w > > Many thanks, > >o	 > > Aldero > >S >a >=   ------------------------------   Date: 7 May 2002 14:11:19 -0500s+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young)a  Subject: Re: Revisionist history3 Message-ID: <2TjT2GDL5Dny@eisner.encompasserve.org>e   In article <ab912e$n3r$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <andrew_nospam.harrison_remove_this@sun#.com> writes: >  >  > Rob Young wrote: > ^ >> In article <3cd7f052.445718471@news.eircom.net>, spam@devnull.com (Russell Wallace) writes: >> *F >>>I am, however, still interested both in what will end up happening,I >>>and in the reasons why people reckon IA64 will ever become competitivee" >>>in either performance or price. >>>a >>>t >> aH >> 	It *should* be price performance competitive with EV7 when McKinley 
 >> 	ships. >> a? >> 	Today a 4 processor Itanium box with 16 GBytes of memory ishD >> 	considerably cheaper than a 4 processor 16 GByte AlphaServer andD >> 	probably on parity price performance wise.  But that is a bit ofD >> 	a game.  Because McKinley is better performing, I am officially E >> 	prognosticating that a 4 processor McKinley box with 4 GBytes of fH >> 	memory will be better from a price performance perspective than a 4 H >> 	processor EV7 AlphaServer when it ships(1).  Of course the EV7 will D >> 	be higher performing and a better solution, but the 4 processor C >> 	McKinley will win a "value proposition" contest (i.e. cheaper).f >> o >  > 7 > Why limit yourself to Alpha boxes in your comparison.a >   ; 	Because if I was trolling for a Sun Champion, I would haveo@ 	rubbed my Zinc Whiskers while carefully adjusting the humidity.  A 	Sun has been marginalized.  Sinking market cap and annual sales  B 	on par with a single quarter of Hewlett-Packard/Compaq.  Being a 9 	one trick pony in a down economy is not the place to be.  	i 	Eviscerate!   				Robo   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 07 May 2002 15:36:56 -04000( From: David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>  Subject: Re: Revisionist history, Message-ID: <3CD82CD8.2030407@tsoft-inc.com>   Rob Young wrote:  ] > In article <3cd7f052.445718471@news.eircom.net>, spam@devnull.com (Russell Wallace) writes:e > E >>I am, however, still interested both in what will end up happening,aH >>and in the reasons why people reckon IA64 will ever become competitive! >>in either performance or price.t >> >> > G > 	It *should* be price performance competitive with EV7 when McKinley h	 > 	ships..    O Fine.  Like they say in football and other sports when the unexpected happens,  P "That's why they play the game."  We've stated our opinions, now we'll wait and  see who was more wrong.i    > > 	Today a 4 processor Itanium box with 16 GBytes of memory isC > 	considerably cheaper than a 4 processor 16 GByte AlphaServer andI- > 	probably on parity price performance wise.e    N Why is that.  My understanding is that today's IA-64 chips are more expensive P than an Alpha chip.  Somebody jump in here and correct me if I'm wrong.  But if L the CPU is more expensive, and doesn't perform as well, then why should the @ Alpha based system be more expensive, without even getting into : price/performance, which makes the Alpha look even better?  N Was Compaq gouging the customers on the pricing of Alpha systems?  If so, and , the customers were willing to pay, why stop?  B Is somebody taking a loss on the IA64 CPU?  Can't do that forever.  O If the IA64 chip is more expensive today, then why would an Alpha based system  # be more expensive?  Please explain.i   >  But that is a bit ofeC > 	a game.  Because McKinley is better performing, I am officially aD > 	prognosticating that a 4 processor McKinley box with 4 GBytes of G > 	memory will be better from a price performance perspective than a 4 cG > 	processor EV7 AlphaServer when it ships(1).  Of course the EV7 will eC > 	be higher performing and a better solution, but the 4 processor  B > 	McKinley will win a "value proposition" contest (i.e. cheaper).    . Ok, the bets are places.  Lets watch the race.   Dave   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 07 May 2002 15:39:01 -0400e( From: David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>  Subject: Re: Revisionist history, Message-ID: <3CD82D55.4050109@tsoft-inc.com>  ( Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy wrote:    7 > Why limit yourself to Alpha boxes in your comparison.v > E > Humm could it be that Alpha boxes arn't price competitive currently     . Or the standard components in the Alpha boxes?  > Andy, be quiet!  That's a secret.  Don't blab it to the world!     Dave   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 08 May 2002 02:19:33 GMTs1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>9  Subject: Re: Revisionist history' Message-ID: <3CD88E42.53A7B1A9@fsi.net>-   Fred Kleinsorge wrote: > % > Entertaining, but rather pointless.w > L > Do I believe that there is a danger of this happening soon?  No.  Is thereN > the prospect that some day this might happen to VMS?  Sure, if Bill Todd andL > his ilk have his way, VMS would be further marginalized to the point whereG > it has little or no profit, and a small and shrinking customer base -e  1 Now, you know *I* have to take issue with that...   G The whole point to the "affordable" thing is to *EXPAND* the VMS markety base, not shrink it.  G I guess it just takes a moron (namely me) to understand that - the resteE of this group (not to mention the HPQ Brass) is just too intelligent.  Dunno...   > atN > which point it would make very little sense to do anything else except place > it into maintenance mode.l  G Yeah - maintain it's market growth rate, maintain its growth in featureIC parity with UN*X-like o.s.-es, maintain it's growth in performance,. stability and security, ...n  , "Maintenance mode"? Sure! Sounds good to me!  $ ...but whaddaya expect from a moron?   -- h David J. Dachterak dba DJE Systemsv http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/n   ------------------------------   Date: 8 May 2002 05:06:46 GMTt* From: "Ian King" <iking@killthewabbit.org>  Subject: Re: Revisionist history( Message-ID: <ababp6$2nh$0@216.39.146.95>  F "Cheaper" doesn't mean better.  It means that marketing folks are busyJ spinning one over the other.  It's been my experience, based on having theL 'best of breed' box at the time for x86 and Alpha, that Alpha beat the pantsE of x86, screwed it blind and left it panting and wondering where that  cigarette came from.  L I recently spoke with a researcher who was shocked by the price of upgradingJ his Alpha boxes with more processors of the same type that were already inH it (i.e. multiproc).  N.B.: no new development, no additional work, justK buying parts already designed and fabbed, off a shelf.  From whom?  Who putH& the fox(es) in charge of the henhouse?  J It's a shame that politics and marketing killed the Alpha.  It was a great
 processor.  8 "Rob Young" <young_r@encompasserve.org> wrote in message- news:os$4onasESxt@eisner.encompasserve.org... L > In article <3cd7f052.445718471@news.eircom.net>, spam@devnull.com (Russell Wallace) writes: > >SG > > I am, however, still interested both in what will end up happening, J > > and in the reasons why people reckon IA64 will ever become competitive# > > in either performance or price.e > >n >rE > It *should* be price performance competitive with EV7 when McKinley  > ships. > = > Today a 4 processor Itanium box with 16 GBytes of memory is B > considerably cheaper than a 4 processor 16 GByte AlphaServer andB > probably on parity price performance wise.  But that is a bit ofA > a game.  Because McKinley is better performing, I am officially:B > prognosticating that a 4 processor McKinley box with 4 GBytes ofE > memory will be better from a price performance perspective than a 4iE > processor EV7 AlphaServer when it ships(1).  Of course the EV7 willuA > be higher performing and a better solution, but the 4 processortA > McKinley will win a "value proposition" contest (i.e. cheaper).u >  >n > Robt >i > G > (1)  Doller per specint and dollar per specfp ratio.  Dollar per tpmCo ratiolE > also (using larger memories here naturally, so this isn't a "game")2 >: >5   ------------------------------   Date: 8 May 2002 05:13:41 GMT:* From: "Ian King" <iking@killthewabbit.org>  Subject: Re: Revisionist history( Message-ID: <abac65$3lu$0@216.39.146.95>  C Since when is Sun a major player?   <insert derisive laughter here>   5 "David Froble" <davef@tsoft-inc.com> wrote in messagei& news:3CD7010B.4070700@tsoft-inc.com... > Bill Todd wrote: >t9 > > "Russell Wallace" <spam@devnull.com> wrote in messageo. > > news:3cd6a222.360153179@news.eircom.net... > >a > > ...e > >. > >-D > >>What's the problem with building a 64-way SMP out of Hammers? OfI > >>course the on-chip glue logic won't do the job, you'd have to provide G > >>that as extra - but then, most SMP boxes people have built over the D > >>years have had to provide the glue logic as extra; why is that a > >>problem? > >> > >WK > > Oh, dear, I think I'll have to side with Fred on at least this specific0J > > point.  While I'm no hardware type, my suspicion is that the fact thatF > > Hammer integrates its memory controller on chip and integrates itsJ > > inter-processor linkages on-chip means that any given Hammer's view ofD > > system-wide memory may well be limited to what it can see either directly ornD > > thought its on-chip router.  So unless that routing mechanism is designed tolL > > handle more than 8 (or perhaps 16, given that dual-core chips seem to beJ > > planned) Hammer processors and their attached memory (and I don't knowI > > whether that's the case, but if it is you might have expected them tot haveJ > > included such larger configurations in their presentations), extending it1 > > using off-chip mechanisms might be difficult.n >h >oI > Ok, if you were AMD, and a major player like Sun came to you and wantede yourK > product, but only if larger processor counts could be done, regardless if  it wasL > on chip of off chip, what would you be saying?  I know that if the numbers were# > right, I'd be saying 'sign here'.5 >8 >bH > > Now, as I've said before, given likely Hammer performance in 2004, 8G > > dual-core Hammers would provide performance about equivalent to anyVJ > > 64-processor box you can buy today, which is not too shabby even if noK > > further expansion is possible.  And I've also suggested that the era of L > > very-high-processor-count homogenoeous systems may be drawing to a closeJ > > (since IBM's POWER architecture is not unlike Hammer's in its apparentE > > expansion limits), to be supplanted by mid-count boards connected A > > big-blade-style with high-performance links into cluster-likeE9 > > configurations.  But if neither of those makes Hammer  high-end-competitive,DI > > then they may have to extend the current architecture if they want toC play
 > > there. >l >rI > And by introducing the Hammer, it's clear to me they do indeed "want toe play". >  > Dave >P   ------------------------------   Date: 8 May 2002 05:18:28 GMTu* From: "Ian King" <iking@killthewabbit.org>  Subject: Re: Revisionist history( Message-ID: <abacf4$45g$0@216.39.146.95>  G And it was my experience that Alpha was a great processor in the 'smalldL systems', not just the big ones.  If someone wants to eat Sun's lunch in theF workstation business, they need a proc that's great at the workstationJ level.  IMHO, Alpha could have supported that market.  I have grave doubtsK (based on what I've seen of IA64) that Intel has enough Wheaties in its box.I to even hope to play in that game.  Intel's interested in maintaining itsM1 empire - not in providing value to its customers.   : "Terry C Shannon" <shannon@world.std.com> wrote in message> news:Pine.SGI.4.30.0205061545340.14156-100000@world.std.com... >D >3% > On Mon, 6 May 2002, JF Mezei wrote:  >  > > "Main, Kerry" wrote:I > > > However, while current releases of the IA-64 may be lacking in someeG > > > area's, it remains to be seen if that will still be the case when  latersH > > > IPF systems (especially in 2004/2005+ timeframe) become available. > >sF > > It is interesting to note that only Compaq/HP people are convinced	 enough of + > > this to actually defend Intel publicly.o > >e >e >eK > INTC doesn't make a habit of commenting in this newsgroup, and INTC wouldg+ > be in the best position to defend itself.  >l > L > I doubt that we'll see a vigorous defense from Andrew Harrison or from his > counterparts at IBN. >  >nJ > > > Remember that when the Alpha was first introduced, the initial Alpha; > > > systems were slower than some of the big VAX systems.  > > H > > But IA64 is designed to take on the big systems, not the small ones. ThebI > > problem with IA64 is that because it has a different EPIC philosophy,i doesL > > anyone really know if/when Intel will ever be able to achieve impressive
 > > results ?  > >d >a >rF > Apparently not. Chances are, anyone who knew for certain wouldn't be  > spending their time on Usenet. >oK > > The first incarnation of Alpha may not have been the fastest, but theret wereE > > clear signs that the Digital engineers had placed the foundationsr	 correctly/L > > which would allow for considerable speedups because the architecture had been > > carefully designed.d > >OC > > If Intel built IA64 on shaky foundations, no amount of proocesse shrinkage willK > > make the *architecture* a big winner. Remember that competitors usuallypH > > benefit from the same process shrinkage speed bumps as Intel, so you cannot: > > count on IA64 gaining superiority through speed bumps. > >3 >r > This is indeed true. >a   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 07 May 2002 19:42:57 -0400n2 From: rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger)* Subject: Re: Sayonara DS10, new org chartsK Message-ID: <rdeininger-0705021942570001@1cust251.tnt2.nashua.nh.da.uu.net>W  J In article <LMQB8.162437$vc2.1876214@news.chello.at>, peter@langstoeger.at wrote:  D >In article <01KHG7XR6VA88Y8ZDE@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>, Phillip3 Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> writes:iN >>> Interesting that thew new DS20 has a SCISI controller  with a mention "for >>> Linux only". >> >>This is the DS20L. >>                ^n3 >>> Can anyone care to explain what this is about ?p >>K >>There was a thread here a while back about this being a very specialised  A >>box and not supported on VMS---or do you have another question?.  C The DS20L is a non-mainstream system, with no current plans for VMSOJ support.  The idea has been raised several times, but the perceived demandD has never crossed some magic threshold.  Since it isn't particularlyH similar to any existing VMS box, the additional work to support it wouldH not be small.  Current wisdom says it is better to devote more effort toB platform-neutral alpha VMS enhancements, or IPF VMS work, instead.  G >I think someone is mangling the not-so-new but limited-to-the-telecomseF >DS20L (already mentioned in a thread here some weeks/months ago) with* >the coming DS25 (sp?) entry level system. >Or did the plans change ?! >Or is this confusion intended...g  E There is a DS25 in the works.  Sort of a follow-on to the DS20, and a  close relative of the ES45.u  J I can't find any confirmation that the DS10 is retiring soon.  I think the story had this wrong.p   ------------------------------   Date: 7 May 2002 19:25:36 -0500l- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)c* Subject: Re: Sayonara DS10, new org charts3 Message-ID: <iYFfasiODRUv@eisner.encompasserve.org>p   In article <rdeininger-0705021942570001@1cust251.tnt2.nashua.nh.da.uu.net>, rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger) writes:  L > I can't find any confirmation that the DS10 is retiring soon.  I think the > story had this wrong.A  D Concievably some particular model number is being withdrawn in favor( of one with slightly different features.   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 08 May 2002 00:57:21 GMTk. From: peter@langstoeger.at (Peter LANGSTOEGER)* Subject: Re: Sayonara DS10, new org charts5 Message-ID: <RJ_B8.172780$vc2.2002575@news.chello.at>a  c In article <iYFfasiODRUv@eisner.encompasserve.org>, Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) writes:a >In article <rdeininger-0705021942570001@1cust251.tnt2.nashua.nh.da.uu.net>, rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger) writes:o >sM >> I can't find any confirmation that the DS10 is retiring soon.  I think the5 >> story had this wrong. >eE >Concievably some particular model number is being withdrawn in favorN) >of one with slightly different features.v  < Maybe the 466 is EOLed and only the 600MHz variant is left ?D Or did this already happen (I've no longer access to the price file)   -- c Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGERh% Network and OpenVMS system specialisti E-mail  peter@langstoeger.atP A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm looking for (a) Network _and_ VMS Job(s)   ------------------------------   Date: 7 May 2002 11:46:59 -0700o( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)8 Subject: Scott Stallard, forget your VMS to HP UX dream!= Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0205071046.57201e02@posting.google.com>r  6 So VMS is secure and the itanium port is also, but Mr.7 Stallard, knock off the "we think the VMS to HP UX port 5 idea is a great one" talk ... we are not leaving vms, 7 and if you try to force us off of VMS it will not be toh your unix garbage!   ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 7 May 2002 15:03:43 -05001 From: "Dave Gudewicz" <david.gudewicz@abbott.com>r< Subject: Re: Scott Stallard, forget your VMS to HP UX dream!8 Message-ID: <ab9c36$68v$1@fizban.fizban.pprd.abbott.com>  F I just sent Mr. Stallard an email regarding this and suggested hp alsoD provide tools and service for those wishing to mograte from hp-ux to OpenVMS.  Seems only fair.   -- Dave...y  6 If you pick up a starving dog and make him prosperous,, he will not bite you.  This is the principle# difference between a dog and a man.s .... Mark TwainH  5 "Bob Ceculski" <bob@instantwhip.com> wrote in messagew7 news:d7791aa1.0205071046.57201e02@posting.google.com...	8 > So VMS is secure and the itanium port is also, but Mr.9 > Stallard, knock off the "we think the VMS to HP UX portn7 > idea is a great one" talk ... we are not leaving vms,D9 > and if you try to force us off of VMS it will not be tot > your unix garbage!   ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 7 May 2002 16:32:08 -0400* From: WILLIAM WEBB <WWEBB1@email.usps.gov>< Subject: RE: Scott Stallard, forget your VMS to HP UX dream!- Message-ID: <0033000063038700000002L002*@MHS>   D =0AIt appears to me that foot-in-mouth disease is highly contagious.  * And among upper management, especially so.   WWWebb   -----Original Message-----/ From: Info-VAX-Request@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNET # Sent: Tuesday, May 07, 2002 4:12 PMvB To: Webb, William W Raleigh, NC; Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNET< Subject: RE: Scott Stallard, forget your VMS to HP UX dream!    F I just sent Mr. Stallard an email regarding this and suggested hp alsoD provide tools and service for those wishing to mograte from hp-ux to OpenVMS.  Seems only fair.   -- Dave...a  6 If you pick up a starving dog and make him prosperous,, he will not bite you.  This is the principle# difference between a dog and a man.p ... Mark Twain  5 "Bob Ceculski" <bob@instantwhip.com> wrote in messagee7 news:d7791aa1.0205071046.57201e02@posting.google.com...k8 > So VMS is secure and the itanium port is also, but Mr.9 > Stallard, knock off the "we think the VMS to HP UX port 7 > idea is a great one" talk ... we are not leaving vms,a9 > and if you try to force us off of VMS it will not be tot > your unix garbage!=p   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 08 May 2002 03:07:12 GMT 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>g< Subject: Re: Scott Stallard, forget your VMS to HP UX dream!' Message-ID: <3CD89970.DC408A59@fsi.net>c   Dave Gudewicz wrote: > H > I just sent Mr. Stallard an email regarding this and suggested hp alsoF > provide tools and service for those wishing to mograte from hp-ux to > OpenVMS.  Seems only fair.    Thanx, Dave! Excellent thinking.  8 > If you pick up a starving dog and make him prosperous,. > he will not bite you.  This is the principle% > difference between a dog and a man.- > .... Mark Twain-  ! Like the quote, too! I also like:0  9 "The rumours of my demise have been greatly exacerbated."R
 ...OpenVMS  $ Kudos to whoever uses that as a sig.   -- . David J. Dachterai dba DJE Systemsa http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 07 May 2002 13:27:41 -0600n From: Kevin Handy <kth@srv.net>e  Subject: Re: simh VAX VMS users?& Message-ID: <3CD82AAD.4030200@srv.net>   norm lastovica wrote: < > here's the contents my "setup.ini" procedure for SIMH VAX: > " > load -r sys$disk:[.vax]KA655.BIN     > set DBGLOG 40y
 > set log q.q3  > Do you really need to log all the time? You may not want these two lines in production.   > set rq0 ra92 > set rq1 ra92 > set rq2 ra92 > at rq0 x0.dsko > at rq1 x1.dske > at rq2 x2.dskt
 > boot cpu > < > To manipulate the disk image files from the host system, I; > installed the LDDRIVER (from the OpenVMS freeware CD) ande> > created disk files of about 4 million blocks each.  When the8 > simulator is down, I can mount the LD devices and copy= > files around or whatever.  Then dismount and disconnect theN, > LD devices and go back into the simulator. > < > I also need to learn how to hook up the DZ ports to telnet= > ports so that I can use my regular terminal emulator ratheri5 > than just the console.  Anyone set this up already?m  
 at dz 4000  1 will create a dz11 you can telnet to at port 4000a6 (telnet localhost 4000)  At least that is how it works under Linux.   > norm lastovica wrote:i > F >>I've been playing around with running VMS on the SIMH VAX simulator.H >>Most things are working OK.  I've installed VMS V7.3, a DEC C compiler@ >>and Rdb.  I'm trying to debug a problem where a process in theF >>simulated environment seems to get stuck waiting for a disk write to$ >>the system disk seems to complete.  : Have you grabbed the latest version? Some bugs in the disk* controller were fixed recently (saturday).  < >>Anyone else got this up and running?  Any tricks to share?   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 07 May 2002 16:17:27 -0400k2 From: norm lastovica <norman.lastovica@oracle.com>  Subject: Re: simh VAX VMS users?* Message-ID: <3CD83657.29543C58@oracle.com>   Kevin Handy wrote: >  > norm lastovica wrote:6> > > here's the contents my "setup.ini" procedure for SIMH VAX: > >a$ > > load -r sys$disk:[.vax]KA655.BIN >  > > set DBGLOG 40s > > set log q.qr > @ > Do you really need to log all the time? You may not want these > two lines in production.  3 	I added them to help track down a problem that I'ma having with I/Os being "lost".  > > > I also need to learn how to hook up the DZ ports to telnet? > > ports so that I can use my regular terminal emulator ratherd7 > > than just the console.  Anyone set this up already?  >  > at dz 4000 > 3 > will create a dz11 you can telnet to at port 4000x8 > (telnet localhost 4000)  At least that is how it works > under Linux.   	cool.  I'll try that.  thanks >  > > norm lastovica wrote:  > >oH > >>I've been playing around with running VMS on the SIMH VAX simulator.J > >>Most things are working OK.  I've installed VMS V7.3, a DEC C compilerB > >>and Rdb.  I'm trying to debug a problem where a process in theH > >>simulated environment seems to get stuck waiting for a disk write to& > >>the system disk seems to complete. > < > Have you grabbed the latest version? Some bugs in the disk, > controller were fixed recently (saturday).  9 	afaik, I've got the latest and greatest dated 1-May-2002t   ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 7 May 2002 22:44:02 +0200" From: "Hans Vlems" <hvlems@iae.nl>  Subject: Re: simh VAX VMS users?5 Message-ID: <ab9e0c$gedu7$1@ID-143435.news.dfncis.de>e  9 Well that's nice to know. It works on a W98 platform too.fB Unfortunately I have no VMS B licens (only D's for VAXstations...)   Hans >e > at dz 4000 >t3 > will create a dz11 you can telnet to at port 4000D8 > (telnet localhost 4000)  At least that is how it works > under Linux.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 07 May 2002 17:43:21 -0400 2 From: norm lastovica <norman.lastovica@oracle.com>  Subject: Re: simh VAX VMS users?* Message-ID: <3CD84A79.A06B1B59@oracle.com>  / for anyone else trying this...  I've discovered91 that for some (as yet unknown reason) a containers, file of 3 million blocks doesn't work but a 0 container file of 4 million blocks does.  Just a, FYI in case you have trouble with a similar  configuration.  / also - fyi - I'm running SIMH on a 733mgz GS320o with VMS V7.3.   norm lastovica wrote:. > < > here's the contents my "setup.ini" procedure for SIMH VAX: > " > load -r sys$disk:[.vax]KA655.BIN > set DBGLOG 40-
 > set log q.q  > set rq0 ra92 > set rq1 ra92 > set rq2 ra92 > at rq0 x0.dsk  > at rq1 x1.dskx > at rq2 x2.dski
 > boot cpu > < > To manipulate the disk image files from the host system, I; > installed the LDDRIVER (from the OpenVMS freeware CD) andv> > created disk files of about 4 million blocks each.  When the8 > simulator is down, I can mount the LD devices and copy= > files around or whatever.  Then dismount and disconnect ther, > LD devices and go back into the simulator. > < > I also need to learn how to hook up the DZ ports to telnet= > ports so that I can use my regular terminal emulator ratherh5 > than just the console.  Anyone set this up already?n >  > norm lastovica wrote:d > >rH > > I've been playing around with running VMS on the SIMH VAX simulator.J > > Most things are working OK.  I've installed VMS V7.3, a DEC C compilerB > > and Rdb.  I'm trying to debug a problem where a process in theH > > simulated environment seems to get stuck waiting for a disk write to& > > the system disk seems to complete. > > > > > Anyone else got this up and running?  Any tricks to share? > >e > > --B > > norman lastovica / oracle rdb engineering / usa / 610.696.4685 >  > --@ > norman lastovica / oracle rdb engineering / usa / 610.696.4685   --  > norman lastovica / oracle rdb engineering / usa / 610.696.4685   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 07 May 2002 17:36:43 -0600e From: Kevin Handy <kth@srv.net>l  Subject: Re: simh VAX VMS users?& Message-ID: <3CD8650B.2040609@srv.net>   norm lastovica wrote:t >  > ; > 	afaik, I've got the latest and greatest dated 1-May-2002s  = That's not the latest then.  Latest is 4-May-2002. There werer@ several changes made on 3-may and 4-may that fix several seriousA problems with VMS stalling out. Sounds like what may be happeninge to you.x   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 07 May 2002 21:20:27 -0400l2 From: norm lastovica <norman.lastovica@oracle.com>  Subject: Re: simh VAX VMS users?* Message-ID: <3CD87D5B.F71AF41D@oracle.com>   aaahhhhhh.  I'll re-download   Kevin Handy wrote: >  > norm lastovica wrote:t > >l > > B > >       afaik, I've got the latest and greatest dated 1-May-2002 > ? > That's not the latest then.  Latest is 4-May-2002. There were-B > several changes made on 3-may and 4-may that fix several seriousC > problems with VMS stalling out. Sounds like what may be happening 	 > to you.$   -- 9> norman lastovica / oracle rdb engineering / usa / 610.696.4685   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 08 May 2002 05:08:37 GMTt) From: Andrew Balaam <abalaam@yahoo.co.uk>e  Subject: Re: simh VAX VMS users?3 Message-ID: <20020508.5083700.272302544@imagnu.geo>p  ) I've been trying to use simh under linux.s  E The simulator fails to boot VMS6.2 off a setup that I used for the=20  charon-vax hobbyist, and itgA also fails to boot the VMS 6.2 stabackit off the installation CD.d  # The error is '?50 SCB2INT' I think.C  
 Andrew.=20  6 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Original Message <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<  I On 07/05/02, 17:23:00, norm lastovica <norman.lastovica@oracle.com> wrot=M e=20 regarding simh VAX VMS users?:    F > I've been playing around with running VMS on the SIMH VAX simulator.I > Most things are working OK.  I've installed VMS V7.3, a DEC C compiler=e  @ > and Rdb.  I'm trying to debug a problem where a process in theF > simulated environment seems to get stuck waiting for a disk write to$ > the system disk seems to complete.  < > Anyone else got this up and running?  Any tricks to share?   > --@ > norman lastovica / oracle rdb engineering / usa / 610.696.4685   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 07 May 2002 19:54:03 -0400e+ From: John Johnstone <jj_usenet2@yahoo.com>r! Subject: Re: SMTP Usage Filter... ( Message-ID: <3CD830DB.8915C3C@yahoo.com>   Don Sykes wrote: ...iL > Thanks for that, but I need to accept incoming SMTP and I use Compaq TCPIPM > Services. I'll try to match your Mulinet suggestions to my smtp.cong rules.bP > I think the answer for me is there is no EASY way to block all spammers. I mayO > just to adjust the Good-Clients/Bad Clients list on an on-going basis - yuck!   H Keeping the volume down to a dull roar is the best that you can hope forF since new sources of spam are always springing up faster than they canG be listed.  Although some people have recommended against maintaining a H list of bad clients, I've found that there are some sources of spam thatE don't seem to make it to the RBLs that I've been using.  I think it'srD probably due to the fact that they're producing a low volume of spamE overall.  Perhaps a large volume to a small number of recipients.  If D you happen to be one of those recipients, then in my opinion, that's! what the bad clients list is for.c  F I've been using TCP/IP 5.1 with relays.ordb.org, relays.osirusoft.com,E and bl.spamcop.net for about a month with pretty good results.  Using E the RBL for blocking and not tagging is somewhat risky but since it's A all you can do with TCP/IP 5.1, it's all or nothing.  You need to:F consider what type of email category you're in when deciding how to doD the filtering.   I think if the majority of your email is with largeG company sites, your risk of blocking a legitimate mail is quite small. 0G Also, if you need to be able to receive mail internationally, you can'tyH realistically use the strategy that others have mentioned such as takingH out major 8-bit subnets such as 202, 203, 210, etc.  My company needs toE be able to do quite a bit of mail internationally though and yet I'llhC admit that I've got one /9 subnet in my bad list.  :-)  That hasn't C snagged any legitimate mail yet but if it does, I'll have to cut itu> back.  The big caveat also is "snagged any that I know about".  F If you nose around at relays.osirusoft.com you'll find a link to checkE an IP address against a very comprehensive list of various RBLs.  YouoG can use that to check a sample of your spam IPs to see how they show updD on the different lists since each list has its own "personality" andH listing criteria.  This will help you decide which list you want to use.  E Some spammers are quite helpful in that they use a consistent name or-E domain in their Return-Path.  I've found that when you can, it's much H better to use that instead of a block via IP address.  When you block byG IP address you drop the connection before the SMTP HELO.  Even though arA 550 response is sent back, most SMTP agents just handle this as a G general error and the mail will be retried at the next retry interval. 1E This can result in a lot of pestering by all of the mail servers that-D you're blocking especially if their retry interval is real short.  IG finally filtered one address at our router that was doing a retry everyrB two minutes for more than a week.  From what I've seen, if you canH filter via the Mail From address, even though a 550 is the same responseE that issued, the sending agent just gives up as if it's a fatal errornC and doesn't do any retries.  Depending on how the sending system ishG setup, either an error will make it back to someone who will see it, or H the error just falls off into the bit bucket.  Either way, it results inE less overhead on the receiving end.  Actually, at sending end too buteF lowering their overhead is just the opposite of what we'd really like, right?  :-)R  G If having the mail sit in a retry queue was a significant burden to the.G sending system, then maybe doing the drops based on IP address might be H a better idea and worth the overhead on our end.  Unfortunately, I don't think that's the case.   ------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 8 May 2002 14:25:13 +1000= From: "Mark\(unMASK\)Forsyth" <forsytMhm@optAushoSme.com.aKu>.! Subject: Re: SMTP Usage Filter...m" Message-ID: <bb9aba.ssk.ln@really>  > "Michael Austin" <maustin@firstdbasource.com> wrote in message, news:3CD73636.175F7A40@firstdbasource.com...  	 [deletia]   A > Add these as well, these are entire Asia/Pacific (China) entiree > networks.G >E> > Bad-Clients: 210.0.0.0/8,211.0.0.0/8,202.0.0.0/8,203.0.0.0/8  - You're knocking out bits of Oz too with that.'  ( inetnum:     210.49.0.0 - 210.49.255.255 netname:     OPTUSINTERNET-AU-$ descr:       OPTUS INTERNET - RETAIL descr:       INTERNET SERVICES descr:       St Leonards, NSWr country:     AUS  @ Why not just block China Telecom, that stops just about the lot.   Ooroom	 Mark F...S     >uJ > I was getting a bunch of rejections in OPCOM, until they finally got the2 > message and now I get none from those addresses. > --
 > Regards, >v9 > Michael Austin            Registered Linux User #261163t9 > First DBA Source, Inc.    http://www.firstdbasource.com  > Sr. Consultant > 704-947-1089 (Office)  > 704-236-4377 (Mobile)d >c   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 07 May 2002 20:45:48 -0400!+ From: John Johnstone <jj_usenet2@yahoo.com>d Subject: Re: smtp.config ?( Message-ID: <3CD83CFB.266BDC5@yahoo.com>   Tom Linden wrote:v > 7 > The documentation is terse if not condensed, but I am : > wondering if there is a more complete description on the; > usage of the fields and their effect on how smtp behaves,e& > perhaps an overall logic flow graph? > 5 > Also is there any syntax checking done? If so, how?k  E I'd agree that the documentation is a bit terse.  I've found out that1 rereading it a few times helps.V  D There isn't any need to stop and restart the SMTP server when makingH changes to the smtp.config file.  Since the server isn't multi-threaded,H a new process is created for each incoming SMTP connection so the configF file gets read each time by each new process.  This can be good or badI depending on how you look at it since your changes are used immediately. >D A good thing if you know it.  Not good if you are expecting that the< server will only look at your file after SMTP is re-started.  H Maybe it's the continuous reading of the file that caused someone to putG a 500 character limit on the size of the field values.  I got burned byVA that since if you go over 500 characters in either Bad-Clients or:I Reject-Mail-From, the values are silently ignored with no error message.  G You just think you're filtering but you're not!  All the comments aboutsA the clash of the VMS way of doing strings and the brain-dead nullvD terminated uncounted strings of C and/or Unix.  Argh!  To have a 500D character limit but not put out an error message when you've reached
 that limit...p  F 500 characters isn't anywhere near enough to do effective blocking.  IH think most systems are probably fast enough that you could increase that= by at least 10 or more without raising the overhead too much..  H As far as overall logic flow for filtering is concerned, it kind of justE follows based on the order in which the initial SMTP command exchangerC goes.  IP addresses checks take priority over the Mail From address D checks since you don't get a chance to look at the Mail From addressE unless you allow the connection from the IP address.  Something like:v   o  If in Good-Clients, accepti   o  If in Bad-Clients, blockl   o  If in RBL, block   ! o  If in Accept-Mail-From, acceptC    o  If in Reject-Mail-From, block  C It would probably be worthwhile just to purposely make a few syntaxtF errors in the smtp.config file just to see what kind of errors are putG out (and IF they're put out).  The errors, when detected, go to OPCOM. nE The only messages that I've seen so far are for syntax mistakes in IPl" addresses in the Bad-Clients list.  E Things could be worse.  It could be like the X window system where ifeC you misspell a resource name in a resource file, it goes undetectedaD since the code only searches through the file looking for matches ofA valid names and doesn't care about finding names that don't matcho	 anything.i   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 07 May 2002 20:40:21 GMT-0 From: "Matt Muggeridge" <Matt.Muggeridge@hp.com>/ Subject: Re: software to produce histograms (?)n@ Message-ID: <VYWB8.104443$o66.302273@news-server.bigpond.net.au>  D A package I'm using for graphing TCP traffic is called jPlot (a JavaL implementation of the X-server version, known as xPlot).  I downloaded jPlotD from http://tcptrace.org.  It runs under Java 1.3.1.  The demo files8 indicate it is capable of a wide variety of chart types.   Matt.2   --= -------------------------------------------------------------  OpenVMS TCP/IP Engineering Enterprise Computing Group Hewlett Packard Corporations Gold Coast, AUSTRALIAh= -------------------------------------------------------------f    A "Francesco Gennai" <francesco.gennai@iat.cnr.it> wrote in messagec6 news:72f5654.0205070450.48fd0918@posting.google.com...5 > Currently we are using GNUPLOT on Alpha/OpenVMS 7.3aJ > to produce some monthly Postscript or GIF images reporting email traffic statistics. . > It seems that GNUPLOT is more approriate for > scientific applications.9 > I would know if there are any other software on OpenVMS < > platform that I could try to produce "offline" (batch job)3 > such histograms, charts, and save it us an image.  >e > Francesco    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 07 May 2002 21:25:59 GMTn1 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com> < Subject: Thanks for the Memory (was Re: Revisionist history); Message-ID: <HDXB8.94989$WV1.28775268@typhoon.ne.ipsvc.net>e  H > >(1)  Doller per specint and dollar per specfp ratio.  Dollar per tpmC ratiomG > > also (using larger memories here naturally, so this isn't a "game")i > >o >oH > Are you talking the overpriced Compaq (I suppose it should now be HPQ) memory4 > or the much cheaper third party memory for Alphas.I > As I recall from previous discussions that makes a vast difference wheno doinga > comparisons.  H Good point! A couple of years ago, when some CPQ Alpha platform or otherI (think it was a cluster o' ES40s, maybe the 833MHz spin) managed to get a"I $/tpmC number below the $20.00 level, I took the Compaq configuration andBL replaced all memory modules with third party memory. Sure enough, the $/tpmC dropped to about $13.00.   ------------------------------   Date: 8 May 2002 05:11:05 GMTc* From: "Ian King" <iking@killthewabbit.org>@ Subject: Re: Thanks for the Memory (was Re: Revisionist history)( Message-ID: <abac19$39o$0@216.39.146.95>  E Hm, competition - oh yes, that thing that Microsoft is supposed to bee@ squelching.  But MS used to make NT for the Alpha - until it was9 marginalized and no one was shipping Alpha boxes anymore.   L Maybe all this court action should be looking at the real anti-competitors -E the x86 priesthood.  The x86 was brain-damaged to start with, and I'mtJ betting it won't be any less brain-damaged at 64 bits!  But since we won't7 have any choices anymore, I guess it doesn't matter....'  < "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com> wrote in message5 news:HDXB8.94989$WV1.28775268@typhoon.ne.ipsvc.net...t >oJ > > >(1)  Doller per specint and dollar per specfp ratio.  Dollar per tpmC > ratioSI > > > also (using larger memories here naturally, so this isn't a "game")k > > >g > >eJ > > Are you talking the overpriced Compaq (I suppose it should now be HPQ) > memory6 > > or the much cheaper third party memory for Alphas.K > > As I recall from previous discussions that makes a vast difference when3 > doingn > > comparisons. >'J > Good point! A couple of years ago, when some CPQ Alpha platform or otherK > (think it was a cluster o' ES40s, maybe the 833MHz spin) managed to get alK > $/tpmC number below the $20.00 level, I took the Compaq configuration and G > replaced all memory modules with third party memory. Sure enough, the- $/tpmC > dropped to about $13.00. >0 >  >r   ------------------------------  * Date: Tue, 7 May 2002 19:41:44 +0000 (UTC), From: lewis@PROBE.mitre.org (Keith A. Lewis)1 Subject: Re: VMS Bigots Unite To Form New Company9. Message-ID: <ab9alo$bf0$1@newslocal.mitre.org>  } bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes in article <ab93i7$2mc2$1@info.cs.uofs.edu> dated 7 May 2002 17:40:23 GMT:eH >Then somebody needs to inform Yahoo and probably the NYSE (as I am sureJ >that's where Yahoo gets their data) because my graphs show a whole day of, >trading for HPQ on Monday, 6 May 2002.  :-)  L Yeah, Yahoo has the stock price in there, but they haven't calculated marketF cap yet.  I read an article today that called IBM "the world's largestL computer maker" and wanted to compare.  I can't even get the old market caps" for HWP and CPQ to add together...  + --Keith Lewis              klewis$mitre.org > The above may not (yet) represent the opinions of my employer.   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 08 May 2002 02:08:48 GMTo1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>D1 Subject: Re: VMS Bigots Unite To Form New Companyl' Message-ID: <3CD88BC0.FB1E5D57@fsi.net>r   Bill Gunshannon wrote: > ? > In article <d7791aa1.0205050407.3a794231@posting.google.com>,o- >  bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski) writes:m > |>G > |> and you think unix/linux is any better ... if so, I have a millionSA > |> cert advisories to email to you ... sorry, vms stands alone!  > C > No it doesn't.  RT-11, RSTS/E, RSX-11 and Primos all have exactlyh > zero CERT advisories. [snip]  E Curiosity: are there any IP stacks for those o.s.-es floating around?y   -- s David J. Dachtera. dba DJE Systemse http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------   Date: 7 May 2002 13:40:29 -0500l- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)  Subject: RE: VMS SCAN productn3 Message-ID: <+t4thPEiFuaf@eisner.encompasserve.org>-  _ In article <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIAELLEOAA.tom@kednos.com>, "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> writes::  6 >>From: Larry Kilgallen [mailto:Kilgallen@SpamCop.net]  A >>In article <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIAEKGEOAA.tom@kednos.com>, "Tom n" >>Linden" <tom@kednos.com> writes:C >>> If all you are doing is providing a mechanism to take exisitinghD >>> SCAN code from the VAX and move to Alpha then I think the mannerD >>> in which the translation is done is adequate.  However, it is ofD >>> marginal value if you wish to write or maintain code, unless, of) >>> course,  you also provide a debugger.l >>F >>Or we all convince VMS Development to move the VAX Scan support overE >>to Alpha.  I am under the impression that VAX and Alpha DST recordso >>resemble each other. > D > Well symbol table is one thing, but you would still have to figureB > out how to get the line number info, so as to make the C compile > stage totally transparent      Are they rewriting it in C ?   ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 7 May 2002 12:51:19 -0700# From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com>o Subject: RE: VMS SCAN product 9 Message-ID: <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIMEOEEOAA.tom@kednos.com>e   >-----Original Message-----t5 >From: Larry Kilgallen [mailto:Kilgallen@SpamCop.net]R% >Sent: Tuesday, May 07, 2002 11:40 AM0 >To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com >Subject: RE: VMS SCAN product >  >h@ >In article <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIAELLEOAA.tom@kednos.com>, "Tom ! >Linden" <tom@kednos.com> writes:h >y7 >>>From: Larry Kilgallen [mailto:Kilgallen@SpamCop.net]f >eB >>>In article <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIAEKGEOAA.tom@kednos.com>, "Tom # >>>Linden" <tom@kednos.com> writes:eD >>>> If all you are doing is providing a mechanism to take exisitingE >>>> SCAN code from the VAX and move to Alpha then I think the manner E >>>> in which the translation is done is adequate.  However, it is ofoE >>>> marginal value if you wish to write or maintain code, unless, ofp* >>>> course,  you also provide a debugger. >>>eG >>>Or we all convince VMS Development to move the VAX Scan support overiF >>>to Alpha.  I am under the impression that VAX and Alpha DST records >>>resemble each other.n >>  E >> Well symbol table is one thing, but you would still have to figurenC >> out how to get the line number info, so as to make the C compile, >> stage totally transparent   >  >Are they rewriting it in C ?o  C Not entirely clear, but from their website it appears that they are3E taking the SCAN front end output, which would have been passed to VCGoC and translating to interpreted C code which then gets passed to a C 	 compiler.M   >t >---' >Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. ; >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).rA >Version: 6.0.351 / Virus Database: 197 - Release Date: 4/19/2002o >o ---a& Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.: Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).@ Version: 6.0.351 / Virus Database: 197 - Release Date: 4/19/2002   ------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 8 May 2002 14:42:31 +1000= From: "Mark\(unMASK\)Forsyth" <forsytMhm@optAushoSme.com.aKu> ; Subject: Re: Which newsservers (if any) run under tcpip5.1? " Message-ID: <pbaaba.8vk.ln@really>  . "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> wrote in message3 news:CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIEEKEEOAA.tom@kednos.com... & > Has anybody ported INN, for example?  F Not that I'm aware of. Give ANU News a try, it's a bit of a bastard toI configure and get going but you can then largely forget about it. You canf% get it from ftp://kuhub.cc.ukans.edu/m   Ooroo 	 Mark F...    > --- ( > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.< > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).B > Version: 6.0.351 / Virus Database: 197 - Release Date: 4/19/2002 >    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 07 May 2002 20:58:18 -0000 - From: wspencer@ap.nospam.org (Warren Spencer)i? Subject: Re: Why is security so important in a VMS environment?l7 Message-ID: <9207AAE5Bwarrenspencer1977@209.249.90.100>y  F rich_thurman@hotmail.com (Rich) wrote in <f442d61d.0205061732.724a5263 @posting.google.com>:   3 >Why is security so important in a VMS environment?e >  >and >l< >Why did VMS become a dominant Operating System in the early* >80s and 90s and then fall into obscurity? >  >Thanks in advance.... >n >Richn  H I suspect the first question could be viewed from another angle... It's H perhaps not that "security so important in a VMS environment", but that L it's a well-designed integral feature of the operating system, and thus you L find OpenVMS in those environments where security is critical.  The same is 4 likely true of reliability and arguably scalability.  J The second question will no doubt evoke the word "marketing" from many in L this ng.  But we should also expect Unix and Windows to fall into obscurity F one day - whether we're alive to see it or not.  The rate at which an I operating system (or any other product) falls into obscurity is no doubt  L partially an inverse function of the advertising effort put behind it.  But J other factors, including pricing, market saturation, etc. would come into  play.    ws   -- h   Warren Spencer' Senior Software Engineer (not a writer)  The Associated Press  < ** Time flies like an arrow.  Fruit flies like a bananna. **   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 07 May 2002 16:32:42 -0400 ( From: David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>? Subject: Re: Why is security so important in a VMS environment?e, Message-ID: <3CD839EA.3090904@tsoft-inc.com>   Dave Gudewicz wrote:  K > Thanks Fred.  IMO a very good summary, with a glimmer of hope at the end.i > 	 > Dave...' > B > "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> wrote in message5 > news:3URB8.27$UD5.327745@cacnews.cac.cpqcorp.net...k > C >>David J. Dachtera wrote in message <3CD7379F.865C6A0A@fsi.net>...u >> >>>Rich wrote: >>>u6 >>>>Why is security so important in a VMS environment? >>>>F >>>Security is important in *ANY* environment. In VMS, however, it wasI >>>designed in from the start, not added on as an after thought as is thea  >>>case with Micro$lop and UN*X. >>>  >>>m	 >>Agreed.e >> >>? >>>>Why did VMS become a dominant Operating System in the earlyh- >>>>80s and 90s and then fall into obscurity?  >>>> >>>Say: "marketing". >>>- >>>-
 >>Simplistic.- >>D >>The VAX and VMS came about during a time when the "super-mini" was >>
 > stealing > J >>new business from the traditional mainframe market.  Most customers wereC >>using custom written software, and they had their own programmingaC >>departments.  It was fast, and reliable.  It had great tools, andd >> > libraries. > H >>Where did it all go wrong?  Well, the VAX architecture ran out of gas. >>    M It's a bit more than that.  When DEC did decide to make the VAX faster, they wM came out with some rather good CPUs.  The various releases of the N-VAX chip NP weren't too shabby.  The question is why didn't this happen much sooner?  Maybe O the technology wasn't quite there yet, I don't know.  What I think happened is  K that everyone was so busy counting the money coming in that they forgot to   remain competitive.    > RISC > 2 >>systems came along that were faster and cheaper.    M Cheaper because DEC wanted to continue counting the money like before.  They dP could have cut pricing to keep up volumn.  Just as some are arguing today about O performance of IA-64 not being everything, if the price had been right, people -O would have had to be rather desperate for speed to spend the money required to hP convert to other systems.  DEC made it cheaper to spend the money converting to  other systems.   >>  At first this just >> > pulled > C >>away the technical market - who could cope with the obscurity and H >>unreliability of UNIX, because what they needed was *speed*.  Then theD >>commercial side started to erode.  VMS stubbornly clung to the VAXL >>architecture until it had already begun a substantial slide in new sales -J >>the architecture that could have been the basis of VMS's replacement wasL >>cancelled, and it's architect took his marbles to Microsoft, and wrote NT.K >>DEC neglected the educational market that it was once big in, assuming iteK >>was simply a profit center - and igoring the fact that it is also primaryt@ >>indoctination for the future high-priests and decision makers.    L Now you're hitting the middle of the bullseye.  If VMS would have stayed in N education, it would have stayed in the businesses where the students ended up 2 working.  Why did education dump VMS?  M O N E Y !   >>  ThenK >>replacement architecture for VAX (Alpha) was started too late, and wasn't H >>binary compatable, and in a declining market - many ISV's chose not to >> > move >  >>to the new architecture.    Q It sure wasn't helpful when they were told that VMS was dead, and to move to NT. tN   Tell someone that their future business is threatened, and they will try to  avoid the oncoming problem.   . >> At the same time, the joke x86 architectureE >>started eating things from the bottom up.  Yes, it was a joke - butu >>	 > anybodya > F >>could afford one, and lots of useful software started being written.    P Back to protecting profit margins I see.  A desktop VAX at PC prices could have J had lots of useful software written for it, along with the vast amount of I existing applications.  But, everybody wanted the big prices, and didn't   consider volumn.     > Entire > B >>businesses could run on out-of-the-box software on a handfull ofK >>decentralized PCs, instead of having a programming staff, and centralizedt >>computing resources.    P And entire businesses are still running on MicroVAX 3100 systems.  However, the M user interface is usually a windoz PC.  Could have been a REAL CHEAP VMS box.     ? >>When the VAX and VMS started to falter, DEC became unfocused.c     Understatement!   
 >> Instead of K >>having an entire corporation that knew exactly what to sell (VAX/VMS), it I >>went into a mode of trying to figure out how to replace VAX/VMS.  UNIX, I >>Windows, NT - we spread our resources that once were focused on VAX/VMSn >> > into > J >>trying to be-all to everyone and everything, succeeding at none (few) of >>them.     P And in the process, managed to promote the movement away from VMS.  This wasn't  unfocused, this was stupidity.  C   Something internal to DEC also helped things along.  When VMS wasa >> > then > K >>800-lb gorilla, it threw it's weight around in the company, and made many-C >>enemies along the way.  When it slipped, the knives all came out.     F And killing off themselves in the process of going for the VMS people.    G >>So.  Now we are here with a still good/great basic OS product - which  >> > still' > J >>has many of the more popular OS's beat in reliability and functionality.J >>But it has shrunk to a small market.  But's it's a little like a BetaMax >> > VCRu > L >>in a world full of VHS.  It's better, but the competition is cheaper, moreL >>available, and is getting better all the time - and it's where all the newL >>media comes out for (and you have to copy someones VHS tape to Beta to use >>it on your machine). >>D >>The good news, is that the "media" is changing, and becomming lessF >>architecture and OS specific - JAVA and web enabled technologies areE >>beginning to make the underlying architecture transparent.  So, the I >>qualities of VMS that make it secure and reliable, may make it a choicet >> > fori > E >>a new generation.  We have a way to go in some areas to make this aP >>
 > reality, > J >>but we're on our way... and the CPU isn't really important to us either." >>Alpha or IA64.  It's just a CPU.  K And you've still got a bunch of loyal users hoping that you are successful.v     Dave   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 08 May 2002 02:49:07 GMT,1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>"? Subject: Re: Why is security so important in a VMS environment?e' Message-ID: <3CD89533.C5C71312@fsi.net>8   Fred Kleinsorge wrote: > C > David J. Dachtera wrote in message <3CD7379F.865C6A0A@fsi.net>...o > >Rich wrote: > >>7 > >> Why is security so important in a VMS environment?t > >sF > >Security is important in *ANY* environment. In VMS, however, it wasI > >designed in from the start, not added on as an after thought as is they  > >case with Micro$lop and UN*X. > >u > 	 > Agreed.h > @ > >> Why did VMS become a dominant Operating System in the early. > >> 80s and 90s and then fall into obscurity? > >  > >Say: "marketing". > >l > 
 > Simplistic.b > M > The VAX and VMS came about during a time when the "super-mini" was stealingtJ > new business from the traditional mainframe market.  Most customers wereC > using custom written software, and they had their own programming-N > departments.  It was fast, and reliable.  It had great tools, and libraries. > N > Where did it all go wrong?  Well, the VAX architecture ran out of gas.  RISCM > systems came along that were faster and cheaper.  At first this just pullediC > away the technical market - who could cope with the obscurity andeH > unreliability of UNIX, because what they needed was *speed*.  Then theD > commercial side started to erode.  VMS stubbornly clung to the VAXL > architecture until it had already begun a substantial slide in new sales -J > the architecture that could have been the basis of VMS's replacement wasL > cancelled, and it's architect took his marbles to Microsoft, and wrote NT.K > DEC neglected the educational market that it was once big in, assuming it8K > was simply a profit center - and igoring the fact that it is also primarytE > indoctination for the future high-priests and decision makers.  ThesK > replacement architecture for VAX (Alpha) was started too late, and wasn't M > binary compatable, and in a declining market - many ISV's chose not to moveoH > to the new architecture.   At the same time, the joke x86 architectureM > started eating things from the bottom up.  Yes, it was a joke - but anybodyoN > could afford one, and lots of useful software started being written.  EntireB > businesses could run on out-of-the-box software on a handfull ofK > decentralized PCs, instead of having a programming staff, and centralizeda > computing resources. > K > When the VAX and VMS started to falter, DEC became unfocused.  Instead of K > having an entire corporation that knew exactly what to sell (VAX/VMS), iteI > went into a mode of trying to figure out how to replace VAX/VMS.  UNIX,AN > Windows, NT - we spread our resources that once were focused on VAX/VMS intoJ > trying to be-all to everyone and everything, succeeding at none (few) ofN > them.  Something internal to DEC also helped things along.  When VMS was theK > 800-lb gorilla, it threw it's weight around in the company, and made many C > enemies along the way.  When it slipped, the knives all came out.a > M > So.  Now we are here with a still good/great basic OS product - which stillcJ > has many of the more popular OS's beat in reliability and functionality.N > But it has shrunk to a small market.  But's it's a little like a BetaMax VCRL > in a world full of VHS.  It's better, but the competition is cheaper, moreL > available, and is getting better all the time - and it's where all the newL > media comes out for (and you have to copy someones VHS tape to Beta to use > it on your machine). > D > The good news, is that the "media" is changing, and becomming lessF > architecture and OS specific - JAVA and web enabled technologies areE > beginning to make the underlying architecture transparent.  So, theaM > qualities of VMS that make it secure and reliable, may make it a choice for N > a new generation.  We have a way to go in some areas to make this a reality,J > but we're on our way... and the CPU isn't really important to us either." > Alpha or IA64.  It's just a CPU.  # If that's the case, why not IA-32?    E They're ubiquitous. "You can't swing a dead cat without hitting one."s< (Be careful to distinguish between CPU architecture and mobo architecture.)   -- o David J. Dachteraf dba DJE Systemso http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/0   ------------------------------   Date: 7 May 2002 13:45:12 -0500R9 From: kaplow_r@eisner.encompasserve.org.mars (Bob Kaplow)m- Subject: Re: www.compaq.com is link to hp.comN3 Message-ID: <aennoxTCV7HB@eisner.encompasserve.org>c  c In article <ZRIFM7Vtdmk9@eisner.encompasserve.org>, koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes:O > H >    Well, there it is.  Enter www.compaq.com and end up a hp.com.  Even$ >    www.digital.com gets you there. > B >    I could find VMS by following the Software and OS link, but I7 >    couldn't find Alpha by following the servers link.   J Here we go again. Looks like many of my links to xxxx.compaq.com/zzzzz areC now broken. The same ones that broke when going from digital.com tor? comapq.com. Just when you think it can't get worse, it does :-(   K Oh well, I still have the Digital Unix keychain with the "Y W8 4 HP" on theo back.>    C         We need to ensure that actions by our government uphold the F         principles of a democratic society, accountable government andG         international law, and that all decisions are taken in a manner )         consistent with the Constitution. 4                                                     1 	26-October, 2001: A day that will live in infamy 4 	Support Freedom: http://www.indefenseoffreedom.org/   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 08 May 2002 02:52:30 GMTl1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>1- Subject: Re: www.compaq.com is link to hp.com & Message-ID: <3CD895FE.74956C7@fsi.net>   Bob Kaplow wrote:J > e > In article <ZRIFM7Vtdmk9@eisner.encompasserve.org>, koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes:K > >lJ > >    Well, there it is.  Enter www.compaq.com and end up a hp.com.  Even& > >    www.digital.com gets you there. > >tD > >    I could find VMS by following the Software and OS link, but I9 > >    couldn't find Alpha by following the servers link.t > L > Here we go again. Looks like many of my links to xxxx.compaq.com/zzzzz areE > now broken. The same ones that broke when going from digital.com tosA > comapq.com. Just when you think it can't get worse, it does :-(a > M > Oh well, I still have the Digital Unix keychain with the "Y W8 4 HP" on theu > back.i  B The doc link still works as of 21:52 CST (US), Tuesday, 7-May-2002  " http://www.openvms.compaq.com/doc/   -- u David J. Dachterao dba DJE Systemsh http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/e   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 08 May 2002 02:33:19 GMTi1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> 8 Subject: Re: ZIPped .PCSI container arrives OK on VMS???' Message-ID: <3CD8917D.7EF791CE@fsi.net>    Bob Koehler wrote: > a > In article <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIEELFEOAA.tom@kednos.com>, "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> writes:w > >sG > > The source and the destination could both be VMS systems but if you2A > > have a Windows box in between, it will change the block size.A > >t > @ >    Every FTP product for VMS I've seen has a technique to dealA >    with this.  The caveat is that you must use a VMS FTP client-B >    for both the copy to the non-VMS box, and the copy from.  You0 >    can't use a Windows client for either step. > A >    You also have to know the command.  On Multinet it's put/fdl.# >    and get/fdl.  UCX is simmilar.e  H Multinet and TCPware have the ability to do this sans the /FDL stuff, soE long as the receiving end is either Multinet or TCPware. UCX/TCPIP isG iffy.   E UCX/TCPIP will do it also, but only between its own (reliably), maybea2 with Multinet/TCPware if you promise to play nice.  0 I believe "the brat" is UCX/TCPIP in both cases.  D AFAIK - YMMV - Void where prohibited by law - no purchase required -E some assembly (or C) required - batteries not included - consult yourtC attorney before (whatever) - (legalese ad infinitum, ad nauseam)...-   --   David J. Dachtera0 dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/e   ------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 8 May 2002 11:34:02 +1000/ From: "Phil Howell" <phowell@snowyhydro.com.au>d3 Subject: Re: [Q]Terminators in Terminal Driver QIOWi2 Message-ID: <ph%B8.3651$Q85.226387@ozemail.com.au>  B "Hiroyuki Tanaka" <Hiroyuki_Tanaka4@excite.co.jp> wrote in message7 news:68cfa44d.0205070124.61f67899@posting.google.com...  > Dear Readers,n >RE > I am writing a program that communicates to a device via the serial.G > port tta0: on my alpha workstation.  I have set-up the program, usingbD > the terminal driver, such that the QIOW is terminated on a colon :4 > (ASCII 58), using the long form of the terminator. >e@ > Is it possible to define the terminator to be a combination ofF > characters, ie colon + space together?  In this I mean that the QIOWF > would only terminate in this combination, not on their own.  It sortF > of implies in the ISOB, size of terminator that the terminator could$ > be larger than a single character. >r > Thanks for any comments.  1 The documentation sort of implies this as well :)  From the i/o users guide:a  B The long form allows use of a more comprehensive set of terminator characters.t7 Any mask equal to or greater than 1 byte is acceptable.aL For example, a mask size of 16 bytes allows all 7-bit ASCII characters to be used as terminators;A a mask size of 32 bytes allows all 8-bit characters to be used as-  terminators for 8-bit terminals.  L However earlier in the guide it also implies that the terminator is a single byte :(   I If you were to use a mask size large enough to map your 2 characters ": ">K as some sort of double-byte, and it worked as desired then it would be yourl
 lucky day.  2 I suspect the qio would still terminate on the ":" Phil   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 08 May 2002 02:00:01 GMTc From: danco@pebble.org3 Subject: Re: [Q]Terminators in Terminal Driver QIOW8- Message-ID: <slrnadh27c.eee.danco@pebble.org>   E In article <ph%B8.3651$Q85.226387@ozemail.com.au>, Phil Howell wrote:   9 > Any mask equal to or greater than 1 byte is acceptable.>N > For example, a mask size of 16 bytes allows all 7-bit ASCII characters to be > used as terminators;C > a mask size of 32 bytes allows all 8-bit characters to be used as " > terminators for 8-bit terminals.  K It's just a bit mask.  Each bit set represents the byte value corresponding>I to that bit position, 0-255.  The read will terminate when any byte value H corresponding to a set bit position in the mask is encountered.  You canJ have short masks (say for just control characters) or long masks (to cover all 8-bit byte possibilities).   - Dant   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 08 May 2002 01:30:46 GMTr. From: peter@langstoeger.at (Peter LANGSTOEGER); Subject: [V5.1 ECO 3] NAME client hosed after domain changeh5 Message-ID: <ad%B8.173060$vc2.2003399@news.chello.at>h  M I recently changed the domain name of a system (with TCPIP> commands directlypL and with SYS$SYSTEM:TCPIP$CONFIG.COM) and got the BIND/DNS client (!) hosed:   eg. during startup:w   ...u) %TCPIP-I-STARTNAME, starting name servicehO %SYSTEM-F-ACCVIO, access violation, reason mask=00, virtual address=00000000003r  2   Improperly handled condition, image exit forced.1     Signal arguments:   Number = 0000000000000005a1                         Name   = 000000000000000Ce1                                  0000000000000000e1                                  0000000000318178 1                                  FFFFFFFF808E7CCC 1                                  000000000000001Be       Register dump:J     R0  = 0000000000000000  R1  = 0000000000000000  R2  = 00000000001D23D0J     R3  = 000000007AF0BA60  R4  = 0000000000033BC0  R5  = 000000007FFCF938J     R6  = 0000000000000000  R7  = 0000000000000001  R8  = 000000007FFAC208J     R9  = 000000007AF0BA60  R10 = 000000007FFAD238  R11 = 000000007FFCE3E0J     R12 = 0000000000000000  R13 = 000000007AFF0F18  R14 = 0000000000000000J     R15 = 000000007AFED8C0  R16 = 0000000000318178  R17 = 000000000000000EJ     R18 = 000000000007B33C  R19 = 000000000000000E  R20 = 0000000000000000J     R21 = 0000000000000000  R22 = 000000000007B324  R23 = 000000000007B330J     R24 = 000000000001000E  R25 = 0000000000000000  R26 = 0000000000204EA4J     R27 = FFFFFFFF82B6A8A0  R28 = 0000000000000000  R29 = 000000007AF0B220J     SP  = 000000007AF0B220  PC  = FFFFFFFF808E7CCC  PS  = 200000000000001B3 %TCPIP-S-STARTDONE, TCP/IP Kernel startup completede  @ Of course, NSLOOKUP didn't work then (could initalize resolver).  , I was able to get the name client working by. $ TCPIP SET NAME/SYS/ENA/DOM=.../SER=(xxx,yyy)B though the parameters were all correctly set in the config file(s) (TCPIP SHO CONF NAME).E Amd I had to do this workaround after every reboot (with the ACCVIO).s    F I tried a lot of SHOW and SET commands and finally ended with deletingG TCPIP$CONFIGURATION and reconfigured the system (IP Addr, FQDN, Domain,s& and services). Now it's working again.    D I just post this story, because I now did the same on another systemF (again Alpha V7.3 - maybe VAX makes a difference. We will see, when/ifG I get one, too) and the same corruption happened again. So, the problemo was/is reproducable.    B Did anyone see such problem(s) and did elevate it to engineering ? Is there a fix in the chain ?c  G It's a shame for DEC/CPQ/HPQ, that UCX/TCPIP has still problems in suchvG basic thingies (btw ICMP timestamp is still unfixed) while other stackscE are robust/fast for years now and has more features (well done, PSC).d   --   Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGERa% Network and OpenVMS system specialiste E-mail  peter@langstoeger.atP A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm looking for (a) Network _and_ VMS Job(s)   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2002.253 ************************Could have been a REAL CHEAP VMS box.     ? >>When the VAX and VMS started to falter, DEC became unfocused.c     Understatement!   
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