1 INFO-VAX	Thu, 09 May 2002	Volume 2002 : Issue 256       Contents:) Re: access() check that works with ACLs ? & Re: Alpha to ia64: where is the issue?& Re: Alpha to ia64: where is the issue?& Re: Alpha to ia64: where is the issue?& Re: Alpha to ia64: where is the issue?& Re: Alpha to ia64: where is the issue?& Re: Alpha to ia64: where is the issue?& Re: Alpha to ia64: where is the issue?& Re: Alpha to ia64: where is the issue?$ Re: Bob Palmer and the demise of DEC$ Re: Bob Palmer and the demise of DEC$ Re: Bob Palmer and the demise of DEC$ Re: Bob Palmer and the demise of DEC$ Re: Bob Palmer and the demise of DEC$ Re: Bob Palmer and the demise of DEC Burning on-the-fly Re: Burning on-the-fly Re: Burning on-the-fly Re: Burning on-the-fly& Re: Burning on-the-fly (with CDrecord)& Re: Burning on-the-fly (with CDrecord)& Re: Burning on-the-fly (with CDrecord)3 Re: Capellas: Linux, Windows Will 'Eviscerate' Unix 3 Re: Capellas: Linux, Windows Will 'Eviscerate' Unix 3 Re: Capellas: Linux, Windows Will 'Eviscerate' Unix 3 Re: Capellas: Linux, Windows Will 'Eviscerate' Unix 3 Re: Capellas: Linux, Windows Will 'Eviscerate' Unix 3 Re: Capellas: Linux, Windows Will 'Eviscerate' Unix 3 Re: Capellas: Linux, Windows Will 'Eviscerate' Unix 3 Re: Capellas: Linux, Windows Will 'Eviscerate' Unix 3 Re: Capellas: Linux, Windows Will 'Eviscerate' Unix 3 Re: Capellas: Linux, Windows Will 'Eviscerate' Unix 3 Re: Capellas: Linux, Windows Will 'Eviscerate' Unix 3 Re: Capellas: Linux, Windows Will 'Eviscerate' Unix 3 Re: Capellas: Linux, Windows Will 'Eviscerate' Unix 3 Re: Capellas: Linux, Windows Will 'Eviscerate' Unix 3 Re: Capellas: Linux, Windows Will 'Eviscerate' Unix 3 Re: Capellas: Linux, Windows Will 'Eviscerate' Unix 3 Re: Capellas: Linux, Windows Will 'Eviscerate' Unix 3 Re: Capellas: Linux, Windows Will 'Eviscerate' Unix   Re: CSWS / CSWB / MX Speculation  Re: CSWS / CSWB / MX Speculation  Re: CSWS / CSWB / MX Speculation  Re: CSWS / CSWB / MX Speculation  Re: CSWS / CSWB / MX Speculation  Re: Fix for EDT emulation in EVE- Re: Forced migration to HPHUX - Storm Warning - Re: Forced migration to HPHUX - Storm Warning - Re: Forced migration to HPHUX - Storm Warning - Re: Forced migration to HPHUX - Storm Warning + Free to a good home: MicroVAX 3400 (in .AU) 4 Re: Gartner rides again (was Re: HP Product Roadmap)4 Re: Gartner rides again (was Re: HP Product Roadmap)4 Re: Gartner rides again (was Re: HP Product Roadmap)4 Re: Gartner rides again (was Re: HP Product Roadmap)4 Re: Gartner rides again (was Re: HP Product Roadmap)4 Re: Gartner rides again (was Re: HP Product Roadmap)4 Re: Gartner rides again (was Re: HP Product Roadmap)4 Re: Gartner rides again (was Re: HP Product Roadmap)4 Re: Gartner rides again (was Re: HP Product Roadmap)4 Re: Gartner rides again (was Re: HP Product Roadmap)4 Re: Gartner rides again (was Re: HP Product Roadmap) Help on UCX Small_Buffer?! Re: Help on UCX Small_Buffer?!E Re: How to rotate Apache/CSWS log files under VMS, without a restart? " Re: HP is taking over really fast!" Re: HP is taking over really fast! Re: HP Product Roadmap Re: HP Product Roadmap Re: HP Product Roadmap Re: HP Product Roadmap Re: HP Product Roadmap Re: HP Product Roadmap Re: HP Product Roadmap Re: HP Product Roadmap Re: HP Product Roadmap# Re: HP Roadmap: OpenVMS, Tru64 safe 2 Invalid Directory File Sequence - Best way to fix?6 Re: Invalid Directory File Sequence - Best way to fix?/ Re: Itanium 2 hits ... Itanium 3 will be Alpha! / Re: Itanium 2 hits ... Itanium 3 will be Alpha!  JBoss on VMS8 Re: MacOS/X is the leading Unix (was "Itanium Troubles")8 Re: MacOS/X is the leading Unix (was "Itanium Troubles")8 Re: MacOS/X is the leading Unix (was "Itanium Troubles")8 Re: MacOS/X is the leading Unix (was "Itanium Troubles") Re: Observing HSx performances; Re: Only one brief mention of OpenVMS on the HP whitesheet? ; Re: Only one brief mention of OpenVMS on the HP whitesheet?  Re: Powered by HP  Re: Powered by HP  Re: Powered by HP  Re: Powered by HP  Re: Powered by HP  Re: Powered by HP  Re: Powered by HP  Re: Powered by HP  Query on DPML$SHR.EXE file Re: Revisionist history  Re: Revisionist history  Re: Revisionist history ! Re: Sayonara DS10, new org charts ! Re: Sayonara DS10, new org charts 3 Re: Scott Stallard, forget your VMS to HP UX dream! + Re: Some more words of wisdom from Capellas + Re: Some more words of wisdom from Capellas 1 RE: SOT: Yo Andrew, you guys on a roll this week? 1 Re: SPAM from HP Office of the CEO and President? 1 Re: SPAM from HP Office of the CEO and President? 1 Re: SPAM from HP Office of the CEO and President? 1 Re: SPAM from HP Office of the CEO and President?  Re: Stallards smoking gun! Re: Stallards smoking gun! Re: Stallards smoking gun! Re: Stallards smoking gun! Re: Stallards smoking gun! Re: Sun to use AMD chips ... Re: Sun to use AMD chips ... Re: sync time in cluster RE: sync time in cluster Re: sync time in cluster RE: sync time in cluster Re: sync time in cluster Time for comp.sys.hp.vms? SSA  TS10/VAX, DHV11, and Jnet/VAX. Re: USB on OpenVMS Re: USB on OpenVMS Re: USB on OpenVMS Re: VAX 4000/600A help needed " Re: VMS 6.2 file ownership problem( Re: VMS Bigots Unite To Form New Company0 Re: What is good model for disk i/o w/shadowing?6 Re: Why is security so important in a VMS environment?6 Re: Why is security so important in a VMS environment?6 Re: Why is security so important in a VMS environment? RE: X-Win32 - Re: [OT] Re: UK folks this might interest you 7 Re: [SURVEY] would you use CHARON-ia64 if there is one? . Re: [V5.1 ECO 3] NTP doesn't start up reliable. Re: [V5.1 ECO 3] NTP doesn't start up reliable  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------   Date: 9 May 2002 05:57:21 -0700  From: cbdeja@my-deja.com (-)2 Subject: Re: access() check that works with ACLs ?= Message-ID: <611952a3.0205090457.16766b5f@posting.google.com>   2 martin@radiogaga.harz.de (Martin Vorlaender) wroteC > For my port of ht://Dig I implemented a vms_access() routine that C > does check ACLs (using SYS$CHECK_ACCESS mainly). I'll send it via  > email.  F Thanks Martin. But I have just discovered that Google have deleted the my-deja D email accounts (although I can still post to newsgroups) and so your0 email will probably disappear into a black hole.  = I've therefore sent you an email with an alternative address.    Regards,   Colin    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 09 May 2002 10:48:47 +0100 ( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1>/ Subject: Re: Alpha to ia64: where is the issue? ) Message-ID: <3CDA45FF.7B5E2A1B@127.0.0.1>    JF Mezei wrote:  >  > Fred Kleinsorge wrote:O > > By the time we move past the porting and early adopter phase, I expect that G > > performance will be reasonable on IA64, and that HP will be selling  > > competetive IA64 servers.  > F > Who else has committed so deeply to IA64. If you consider the 2 mainK > competitors to be IBM and Sun, then neither has committed to IA64 for any  > serious stuff.  G Speaking personal opinion but I have grounds for making this statement, F should IA64 not be the dogs naughty bits, the level of effort required0 to re-port to a.n.other 64 bit will be, minimal.  ? I don't see any bridges being burnt in this port, only hardware " dependence being removed from VMS.   --  ( Regards, Nic Clews CSC Computer Sciences nclews at csc dot com    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 09 May 2002 10:45:16 GMT  From: system@SendSpamHere.ORG / Subject: Re: Alpha to ia64: where is the issue? 0 Message-ID: <00A0DAAD.811F72DE@SendSpamHere.ORG>  T In article <3CDA45FF.7B5E2A1B@127.0.0.1>, Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1> writes: >JF Mezei wrote: >>   >> Fred Kleinsorge wrote: P >> > By the time we move past the porting and early adopter phase, I expect thatH >> > performance will be reasonable on IA64, and that HP will be selling >> > competetive IA64 servers. >>  G >> Who else has committed so deeply to IA64. If you consider the 2 main L >> competitors to be IBM and Sun, then neither has committed to IA64 for any >> serious stuff.  > H >Speaking personal opinion but I have grounds for making this statement,G >should IA64 not be the dogs naughty bits, the level of effort required 1 >to re-port to a.n.other 64 bit will be, minimal.  > @ >I don't see any bridges being burnt in this port, only hardware# >dependence being removed from VMS.   C There are some shortcomings in the ia64 and VMS must be modified to B handle those in ia64.  Thus, there is "hardware dependence" being 
 added to VMS.      --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM              5   "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?"     ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 09 May 2002 13:06:49 +0100 ( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1>/ Subject: Re: Alpha to ia64: where is the issue? ) Message-ID: <3CDA6659.C70B58AE@127.0.0.1>    system@SendSpamHere.ORG wrote: > J > >Speaking personal opinion but I have grounds for making this statement,I > >should IA64 not be the dogs naughty bits, the level of effort required 3 > >to re-port to a.n.other 64 bit will be, minimal.  > > B > >I don't see any bridges being burnt in this port, only hardware% > >dependence being removed from VMS.  > E > There are some shortcomings in the ia64 and VMS must be modified to C > handle those in ia64.  Thus, there is "hardware dependence" being  > added to VMS.   H I'm open to be corrected but I don't see this. At the tech update, BurnsB showed how PALcode got around shortcomings of the Alpha processor!  E He went on to demonstrate that what PALcode did, and what was done at E the hardware dependent level was being lifted into the base operating H system. Bear in mind this is going into shared code, so it doesn't breakG Alpha. I've not seen it anywhere but I expect the dependence on PALcode  will be reduced on Alpha.   G Being the modular type of guys VMS engineering are, I expect that these D modules can be used as templates to create the correct hardware <-->G software signals for any future hardware that module is ported for. Yes G they will be specific, and you'll have architecture specific EXE's, but $ the built from the same source code.  H Would someone from Engineering like to comment, or alternatively pull me  back to the straight and narrow?   --  ( Regards, Nic Clews CSC Computer Sciences nclews at csc dot com    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 09 May 2002 13:33:16 GMT & From: John Reagan <john.reagan@hp.com>/ Subject: Re: Alpha to ia64: where is the issue? % Message-ID: <3CDA7964.7040106@hp.com>    Nic Clews wrote:  J > Would someone from Engineering like to comment, or alternatively pull me" > back to the straight and narrow? >   H I wouldn't say we're *removing* hardware dependencies, but rather we're F *abstracting* and *hiding* hardware dependencies by inventing macros, G utility routines, etc. that allow 99% of the code to not have explicit  D Alpha or Itanium knowledge.  For example, there are already lots of I macros in use in the kernel to do things like invalidate an entry in the  H translation buffer.  The knowledge of how to do it for Alpha vs Itanium G is buried inside that macro.  The code that uses it doesn't care *how*  H to invalidate a TB entry, it just wants it done.  We have have one (and A hopefully only one) place that knows the exact hardware-specific   mechanism on how to do it.  " Does that help your understanding?   --   John Reagan ' Compaq Pascal/{A|I}MACRO Project Leader    ------------------------------  * Date: Thu, 9 May 2002 14:09:36 +0000 (UTC) From: david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk/ Subject: Re: Alpha to ia64: where is the issue? + Message-ID: <abdvuv$iup$2@aquila.mdx.ac.uk>   T In article <3CDA45FF.7B5E2A1B@127.0.0.1>, Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1> writes: >JF Mezei wrote: >>   >> Fred Kleinsorge wrote: P >> > By the time we move past the porting and early adopter phase, I expect thatH >> > performance will be reasonable on IA64, and that HP will be selling >> > competetive IA64 servers. >>  G >> Who else has committed so deeply to IA64. If you consider the 2 main L >> competitors to be IBM and Sun, then neither has committed to IA64 for any >> serious stuff.  > H >Speaking personal opinion but I have grounds for making this statement,G >should IA64 not be the dogs naughty bits, the level of effort required 1 >to re-port to a.n.other 64 bit will be, minimal.  > @ >I don't see any bridges being burnt in this port, only hardware# >dependence being removed from VMS.  >   N I hope this is so. I also hope that the VMS engineers have at least been givenM the opportunity to look at Hammer and Power 4 so that if/when IA64 fails they M can quickly say that the port will be relatively simple. My fear is that IA64 O will fail and that whatever the cost will be of a replacement port to Hammer or 5 Power 4 will be used as an excuse to end-of-life VMS.     
 David Webb VMS and Unix team leader CCSS MIddlesex University   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 09 May 2002 15:52:28 +0100 ( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1>/ Subject: Re: Alpha to ia64: where is the issue? ) Message-ID: <3CDA8D2C.BEEBAAE1@127.0.0.1>    Bill Gunshannon wrote: > / > In article <3cd8505f.0@topcat.tabbygnat.com>, 2 >  "Douglas B Rupp" <rupp@nospam_gnat.com> writes:P > |> However GNAT, the Gnu Ada compiler will be available and fully supported on > |> IA64 VMS. > |> > 9 > We've been over this before, but I'll ask again anyway.  > F > Will ACT absorb the cost of recertification for all the applicationsF > (particularly military) that were done with Dec ADA??  If not, whereG > is the incentive to stay on what may be percieved as a dying platform F > which will require yet another recertification in a few more years??I > Unlike the business world which can't see beyond the end of the current H > fiscal quarter, many military applications are here for the long term.  & Long term = 40 years plus in my terms.  < Bill and I would both appreciate comment from you Douglas...     --  ( Regards, Nic Clews CSC Computer Sciences nclews at csc dot com    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 09 May 2002 15:53:44 +0100 ( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1>/ Subject: Re: Alpha to ia64: where is the issue? ) Message-ID: <3CDA8D78.8DC994E3@127.0.0.1>    John Reagan wrote: >  > Nic Clews wrote: > >... >...$ > Does that help your understanding?  C Yes it does, thank you. I guess the net effect is the same however, 
 portable VMS.    --  ( Regards, Nic Clews CSC Computer Sciences nclews at csc dot com    ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 9 May 2002 13:42:13 -0400; From: "Brian Tillman" <tillman_brian@notnoone.notnohow.com> / Subject: Re: Alpha to ia64: where is the issue? $ Message-ID: <3cdab4f2$1@news.si.com>  E >Will ACT absorb the cost of recertification for all the applications 6 >(particularly military) that were done with Dec ADA??  K Exactly why we still use Compaq Ada on VAXes.  The cost for recertification 3 of the airborne software we produce is prohibitive.  --A Brian Tillman                   Internet: tillman_brian at si.com A Smiths Aerospace                          tillman at swdev.si.com = 3290 Patterson Ave. SE, MS      Addresses modified to prevent < Grand Rapids, MI 49512-1991     SPAM.  Replace "at" with "@"8        This opinion doesn't represent that of my company   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 09 May 2002 08:51:11 +0200 - From: Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@Free.fr> - Subject: Re: Bob Palmer and the demise of DEC ' Message-ID: <3CDA1C5F.39F21ADF@Free.fr>    Bob Ceculski wrote:  >  ../.. P > > You don't seem to know much about what you were talking about above, either.1 > > This has not been a good day for you, Didier.  > > 
 > > - bill > A > why don't you call him an imbicile or an idioit like you do me? C > at least my belief that EV8 will live in itanium is debatable ...   D Bob, remember, we are playing here, to forget about our (non)future.   D.   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 09 May 2002 15:44:31 GMT 5 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> - Subject: Re: Bob Palmer and the demise of DEC 9 Message-ID: <zPwC8.18$b07.390297@cacnews.cac.cpqcorp.net>N  > Didier Morandi wrote in message <3CD962A4.B7251AD3@Free.fr>... >Atlant Schmidt wrote: >>G >>     http://www.sba.oakland.edu/ispso/html/2000Symposium/Hunt2000.htm: >e >../..G >After almost thirty years at the helm of Digital, in the face of largee	 financialuG >loses in a company used to showing consistent profitability, the Boardh fired?* >Olsen and put in his place Robert Palmer. >../.. >iK >Ken has been fired because he didn't want to "go UNIX" and he also did notr wantI >to produce low quality (and less expensive) PCs. His spirit was "We willt sellK >Rainbows because they are the best PCs in the world" and this was true buts notDL >enough. The Rainbow has been the Rolls-Royce of the PCs but it was just tooL >complete and too expensive. This is to me why it failed to market (remember theiJ >article "There is no more gold at the end of the Rainbow"). The PC350/380 hassL >been a second try, but as it was not as good as the Rainbow, it failed too.3 >There may be other reasons but I do not know them.  >eI >They are Board's friends who have invented than Ken was fired for "largen >financial loses". >U  K What Ken said to me, was that he did not believe that firing 50,000+ people,H would solve the companies problems, and that he wouldn't do it.  SeveralL executives, led by BP convinced the board that it was the solution, and they& could carry it out.  Just that simple.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 09 May 2002 17:23:43 +0100uU From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <andrew_nospam.harrison_remove_this@sun#.com> - Subject: Re: Bob Palmer and the demise of DEC'0 Message-ID: <abe7qf$90e$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   Bob Ceculski wrote:s  j > Atlant Schmidt <atlantnospam@mindspring.com> wrote in message news:<3CD91F88.E7F08549@mindspring.com>... > < > exactly what I have been saying for years ... Palmer was a: > Gates crony, paid off by Bill and Intel to give them all8 > the little Alpha - VMS secrets while slowly destroying< > Digital ... this just confirms it ... and the next Palmer,; > Scott Stallard at hp is starting this again with a vms toa8 > hp ux affinity program ... read the pdf at the openvms8 > website, the Q/A for vms at the bottom ... that pretty > much sums it up ...  >     4 If is makes you feel any better Sun has a OpenVMS to! Solaris Affinity Program as well.e   Regardsi Andrew Harrisond   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 09 May 2002 17:16:54 GMTa1 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com> - Subject: Re: Bob Palmer and the demise of DEC)) Message-ID: <aayC8.5431$UV4.72@rwcrnsc54>c  5 "Bob Ceculski" <bob@instantwhip.com> wrote in messageo7 news:d7791aa1.0205081414.442abad9@posting.google.com...a7 > "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote in message > news:<BNdC8.108338$Ii2.9712565@bin2.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>...> > > "Didier Morandi" <Didier.Morandi@Free.fr> wrote in message% > > news:3CD962A4.B7251AD3@Free.fr...  > > > Atlant Schmidt wrote:  > > > > L > > > >     http://www.sba.oakland.edu/ispso/html/2000Symposium/Hunt2000.htm > > >o > > > ../..sL > > > After almost thirty years at the helm of Digital, in the face of large > >  financialL > > > loses in a company used to showing consistent profitability, the Board
 > >  fired/ > > > Olsen and put in his place Robert Palmer.p > > > ../..u > > > L > > > Ken has been fired because he didn't want to "go UNIX" and he also did notq	 > >  wanttI > > > to produce low quality (and less expensive) PCs. His spirit was "We  will	 > >  sellmL > > > Rainbows because they are the best PCs in the world" and this was true butu > >  notH > > > enough. The Rainbow has been the Rolls-Royce of the PCs but it was just > >  tooG > > > complete and too expensive. This is to me why it failed to marketu > >  (remember theE > > > article "There is no more gold at the end of the Rainbow"). Thet	 PC350/380e > >  hasL > > > been a second try, but as it was not as good as the Rainbow, it failed	 > >  too. 8 > > > There may be other reasons but I do not know them. > > H > > You don't seem to know much about what you were talking about above, either. 1 > > This has not been a good day for you, Didier.  > >e
 > > - bill >rA > why don't you call him an imbicile or an idioit like you do me?cC > at least my belief that EV8 will live in itanium is debatable ...e  I Most anything is open to debate. I wish I could be called an imbecile andlH idiot like GQ Bob. I have been called worse, and I would welcome such anF appellation (I am not politically correct, and I do not ascribe to theK "hurtful" codswallop) providing that I got the Golden Parachute that Palmerf= got. Wouldn't mind the seat (and the perks) on the AMD Board.   K Plus Bob's Porsche Turbo Carerra IV is a nice ride. And he does have plentyk of nice suits.   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 09 May 2002 17:19:25 GMTi1 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com>c- Subject: Re: Bob Palmer and the demise of DEC 9 Message-ID: <xcyC8.4743$1B.145@rwcrnsc51.ops.asp.att.net>v  5 "Bob Ceculski" <bob@instantwhip.com> wrote in messageV7 news:d7791aa1.0205081116.2f45354e@posting.google.com...6? > Atlant Schmidt <atlantnospam@mindspring.com> wrote in messageo* news:<3CD91F88.E7F08549@mindspring.com>... >m< > exactly what I have been saying for years ... Palmer was a: > Gates crony, paid off by Bill and Intel to give them all  > the little Alpha - VMS secrets  L Nice assertion. Now let's see some concrete evidence. Cancelled checks wouldA be nice. Other forms of demonstrable evidence would be nice, too.      while slowly destroying < > Digital ... this just confirms it ... and the next Palmer,; > Scott Stallard at hp is starting this again with a vms to-8 > hp ux affinity program ... read the pdf at the openvms8 > website, the Q/A for vms at the bottom ... that pretty > much sums it up ...t  L I seemed to miss the statement that Mister Stallard is a crony of Bill GatesG and Andy Grove AND the Space Alien that we read about every week in the G Weekly World News. Perhaps my browser suppressed this smoking evidence.C   >A: > http://www.compaq.com/hps/download/5_6_hp_newsletter.pdf   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 09 May 2002 17:20:14 GMT 1 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com>a- Subject: Re: Bob Palmer and the demise of DECa* Message-ID: <idyC8.5444$UV4.396@rwcrnsc54>  # "Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy"e> <andrew_nospam.harrison_remove_this@sun#.com> wrote in message* news:abe7qf$90e$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com... >s >s > Bob Ceculski wrote:j >:A > > Atlant Schmidt <atlantnospam@mindspring.com> wrote in messageE* news:<3CD91F88.E7F08549@mindspring.com>... > >K> > > exactly what I have been saying for years ... Palmer was a< > > Gates crony, paid off by Bill and Intel to give them all: > > the little Alpha - VMS secrets while slowly destroying> > > Digital ... this just confirms it ... and the next Palmer,= > > Scott Stallard at hp is starting this again with a vms to,: > > hp ux affinity program ... read the pdf at the openvms: > > website, the Q/A for vms at the bottom ... that pretty > > much sums it up ...d > >  >  >t6 > If is makes you feel any better Sun has a OpenVMS to# > Solaris Affinity Program as well.i >a  L I would expect nothing less of a company that knows how to market and how to capitalize on opportunities.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 09 May 2002 10:53:16 +0200-/ From: Frederik Meerwaldt <frederik@freddym.org>  Subject: Burning on-the-flyt/ Message-ID: <abdddu$jbk$02$1@news.t-online.com>    Hello,  G I'm currently using my AlphaServer 400 4/233 with CDrecord to burn CDs.<C It would be useful for copying CDs if I could copy them on-the-fly.e: I tried out the -isosize parameter but I couldn't succeed.  4 Is it possible to copy CDs using OpenVMS on-the-fly?  - Thanks in advance and Greetings from Germany,a 	Freddyn   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 09 May 2002 10:41:37 GMT  From: system@SendSpamHere.ORGe Subject: Re: Burning on-the-fly20 Message-ID: <00A0DAAC.FE768BB3@SendSpamHere.ORG>  a In article <abdddu$jbk$02$1@news.t-online.com>, Frederik Meerwaldt <frederik@freddym.org> writes:u >Hello,a >gH >I'm currently using my AlphaServer 400 4/233 with CDrecord to burn CDs.D >It would be useful for copying CDs if I could copy them on-the-fly.; >I tried out the -isosize parameter but I couldn't succeed.a >a5 >Is it possible to copy CDs using OpenVMS on-the-fly?o  - Please explain what you mean by "on-the-fly".i  1 Please explain what you would hope to accomplish.r   --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM             V5   "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?"     ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 9 May 2002 23:21:58 +1000= From: "Mark\(unMASK\)Forsyth" <forsytMhm@optAushoSme.com.aKu>s Subject: Re: Burning on-the-flyA" Message-ID: <p5tdba.a8t.ln@really>  * <system@SendSpamHere.ORG> wrote in message* news:00A0DAAC.FE768BB3@SendSpamHere.ORG...D > In article <abdddu$jbk$02$1@news.t-online.com>, Frederik Meerwaldt <frederik@freddym.org> writes:	 > >Hello,t > >vJ > >I'm currently using my AlphaServer 400 4/233 with CDrecord to burn CDs.F > >It would be useful for copying CDs if I could copy them on-the-fly.= > >I tried out the -isosize parameter but I couldn't succeed.e > >t7 > >Is it possible to copy CDs using OpenVMS on-the-fly?e >o/ > Please explain what you mean by "on-the-fly".  >n3 > Please explain what you would hope to accomplish.I  G Traditionally when creating a CD-ROM you first create an "image" of thehG entire CD-ROM file system. A container file if you will. What the OP is I trying to do is to skip the creation of the image and just go, basically,l5 bit for bit, from a CD-ROM reader to a CD-ROM writer.i- What he wants to do is loosly analogous to :-k $ mou/ov=id tape1e $ mou/ov=id tape2I& $ copy tape1:disk_image.bck tape2: /lo ....  K Unfortunatbely all that's doable as far as I can tell is roughly equivilentt to :-h $ mou/for tape1  $ mou/for disk. $ backup/image tape1:disk_image.bck/save disk: $ dism tape1 $ mou/for tape2a $ dism diske $ mou disk /ov=id / $ backup/image disk1: tape2:disk_image.bck/savet   HTHc   Ooroos	 Mark F...      >r > --4 > VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001 VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM >e6 >   "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?" >d   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 9 May 2002 11:10:57 -0400% From: "John Vottero" <John@mvpsi.com>  Subject: Re: Burning on-the-flya/ Message-ID: <udl4c6ta7etgdf@news.supernews.com>a  - You can do it using version 2 of CDWRITE_VMS.0  < "Frederik Meerwaldt" <frederik@freddym.org> wrote in message) news:abdddu$jbk$02$1@news.t-online.com...l > Hello, >tI > I'm currently using my AlphaServer 400 4/233 with CDrecord to burn CDs.dE > It would be useful for copying CDs if I could copy them on-the-fly.e< > I tried out the -isosize parameter but I couldn't succeed. > 6 > Is it possible to copy CDs using OpenVMS on-the-fly? >o/ > Thanks in advance and Greetings from Germany,  > Freddy   ------------------------------   Date: 9 May 2002 05:00:23 -0500n- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)f/ Subject: Re: Burning on-the-fly (with CDrecord).3 Message-ID: <atxjbP9quu9C@eisner.encompasserve.org>l  a In article <abdddu$jbk$02$1@news.t-online.com>, Frederik Meerwaldt <frederik@freddym.org> writes:s > Hello, > I > I'm currently using my AlphaServer 400 4/233 with CDrecord to burn CDs.aE > It would be useful for copying CDs if I could copy them on-the-fly. < > I tried out the -isosize parameter but I couldn't succeed. > 6 > Is it possible to copy CDs using OpenVMS on-the-fly?  D Could you restate the problem for those of us who have not used thatC particular piece of software.  More detail of the general issue yous  want to address would help also.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 09 May 2002 12:57:52 +0200p/ From: Frederik Meerwaldt <frederik@freddym.org> / Subject: Re: Burning on-the-fly (with CDrecord),/ Message-ID: <abdknh$qra$02$1@news.t-online.com>6   Hi!r  : On Thu, 09 May 2002 12:00:23 +0200, Larry Kilgallen wrote:  7 >> Is it possible to copy CDs using OpenVMS on-the-fly?n  F > Could you restate the problem for those of us who have not used thatJ > particular piece of software.  More detail of the general issue you want > to address would help also.t  2 I want to copy CDs without making a Image of them.G I want to write the CD with the data just read from the other CD drive.h   Greetings - Freddy   ------------------------------  * Date: Thu, 9 May 2002 15:11:32 +0000 (UTC), From: lewis@PROBE.mitre.org (Keith A. Lewis)/ Subject: Re: Burning on-the-fly (with CDrecord)t. Message-ID: <abe3j4$gvg$1@newslocal.mitre.org>  ) Frederik Meerwaldt <frederik@freddym.org>r]  writes in article <abdknh$qra$02$1@news.t-online.com> dated Thu, 09 May 2002 12:57:52 +0200: 3 >I want to copy CDs without making a Image of them.SH >I want to write the CD with the data just read from the other CD drive.  I You should be able to do this by mounting the source CD /FOREIGN and thenrE using the source device name as the image file for the burn command. r
 HOWEVER...  J CD-CD copies are less reliable than CD-HD-CD because older CD burners will< screw up a disk if the input slacks off, and good CD-readingL drivers/firmware will read an erroneous sector several times in order to getF a high probability of correct data, which can result in deadly delays.  + --Keith Lewis              klewis$mitre.orgi> The above may not (yet) represent the opinions of my employer.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 09 May 2002 08:53:06 +0100D& From: Ken Green <Ken.Green@kgcc.co.uk>< Subject: Re: Capellas: Linux, Windows Will 'Eviscerate' Unix* Message-ID: <3CDA2AE2.4FD3816D@kgcc.co.uk>   Bill Todd wrote:  5 > "Ken Green" <Ken.Green@kgcc.co.uk> wrote in messaged& > news:3CD97754.54D6B3B0@kgcc.co.uk... >l > ...p >c? > > Look if you want to post childish flame bait please keep itnD > > to your own newgroup and don't cross post it to comp.sys.hp.hpuxD > > I'm sure after so many years there must be a vms advocacy group. >o > Not that I'm aware of. >-   HHmmmmm     your right... sorry2   >3M > Apologies for Bob the Mouth:  he's an embarrassment in comp.os.vms as well.4< > Apparently too stupid know that his brand of 'advocacy' isM > counter-productive (and believe me, it's not for lack of having been told).e >y > - bill    Welcome on board the HP way BTW.     Cheers     Kent   ------------------------------    Date: 09 May 2002 15:33:52 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>< Subject: Re: Capellas: Linux, Windows Will 'Eviscerate' Unix- Message-ID: <87d6w53hcv.fsf@prep.synonet.com>n  ? Mike Coleman <mkc+dated+1023501053.10b8ae@mathdogs.com> writes:s  N > Whether or not you're correct about VMS, you can't really know unless you'veP > drunk the alternative Kool Aid.  The best favor you could do yourself would beO > to swear off VMS for one year and immerse yourself in the world of another OScM > (Linux would be my pick).  Even if it doesn't change your mind, you'll know 2 > exactly where and why VMS is better, first hand.  D I did. It was HPUX. Where do I put the `S' that has been left out...   -- e< Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda. @                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------   Date: 9 May 2002 07:55:51 -0500F- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) < Subject: Re: Capellas: Linux, Windows Will 'Eviscerate' Unix3 Message-ID: <5ruAmzPQaszA@eisner.encompasserve.org>f  V In article <abcfb8$t69@web.eng.baileynm.com>, peter@abbnm.com (Peter da Silva) writes:5 > In article <LFcvM8aLHkw+@eisner.encompasserve.org>,v0 > Bob Koehler <koehler@encompasserve.org> wrote:J >>    Some Linux use BSD-style text configuration files that can be editedI >>    by hand.  Other's seem to use SVID-style binary configuration filess+ >>    that can't readily be edited by hand.: > H > Doesn't really matter. What those tools end up doing are much the sameI > things in either case... in fact a great way to learn would be to go inFG > to the startup scripts and trace everything through and see where the/M > configuration information gets converted to actual changes in system state.a >   F    What makes you think all configuration files are written by startup    scripts?n   ------------------------------   Date: 9 May 2002 12:57:56 GMTi& From: peter@abbnm.com (Peter da Silva)< Subject: Re: Capellas: Linux, Windows Will 'Eviscerate' Unix- Message-ID: <abdrok$qjc@web.eng.baileynm.com>l  - In article <87d6w53hcv.fsf@prep.synonet.com>,l. Paul Repacholi  <prep@prep.synonet.com> wrote:A > Mike Coleman <mkc+dated+1023501053.10b8ae@mathdogs.com> writes: 1 > > The best favor you could do yourself would bemN > > to swear off VMS for one year and immerse yourself in the world of another > > OS  F > I did. It was HPUX. Where do I put the `S' that has been left out...  % Will you guys quit putting down HPUX?g  I After all, that's where Tru64 is migrating to, and if there aren't *some*kJ good features I'm going to be too damn depressed to bother drinking myself to death over the Alphacide.   -- UO I've seen things you people can't imagine. Chimneysweeps on fire over the roofs O of London. I've watched kite-strings glitter in the sun at Hyde Park Gate.  AllvL these things will be lost in time, like chalk-paintings in the rain.   `-_-'K Time for your nap.  | Peter da Silva | Har du kramat din varg, idag?    'U`,   ------------------------------   Date: 9 May 2002 06:35:58 -0700 ( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)< Subject: Re: Capellas: Linux, Windows Will 'Eviscerate' Unix< Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0205090535.2fd5ae7@posting.google.com>  X Ken Green <Ken.Green@kgcc.co.uk> wrote in message news:<3CD97754.54D6B3B0@kgcc.co.uk>... > Bob Ceculski wrote:  > b > > mnahkola@aurinko.ntc.nokia.com wrote in message news:<sQ3C8.3959$ws6.82089@news2.nokia.com>... > > >vL > > > And note that this is often correctly perceived as the biggest problemK > > > for Linux at the moment. Oh well... the differences are still smalleriA > > > than between different proprietary UNIXes (and lookalikes).r > >h? > > you better look at your linux logs again, because on top of.A > > clustering, reliability, compatability, is "S E C U R I T Y"!aC > > Unix/Linux has none!  VMS clustering, security, reliability and @ > > scalibility has not been copied by Gates (Cutler) to NT, and? > > sure hasn't in unix/linux ... any other platform other thanrC > > OpenVMS is a joke ... it's GARBAGE!  VMS has been thru 22 years B > > of battles and no other OS comes close ... maybe in another 22@ > > years you will get your act together, but in the mean time IC > > have a business to keep up 99.9999 and that sure isn't going toe@ > > happen w/windoze/unix/linux!  Unix/linux is just as hardwareB > > dependent as VMS ... so why risk your business and go thru theD > > nightmares that all the windoze/unix/linux dumbos are going thru? > > rught now?  Check the cert site or other comp.os boards andmB > > wonder in amazement how stupid everyone is for ever running on$ > > these mickey mouse platforms ... > = > Look if you want to post childish flame bait please keep iteB > to your own newgroup and don't cross post it to comp.sys.hp.hpuxB > I'm sure after so many years there must be a vms advocacy group.  F I didn't cross post to hp, I post only in vms ... you must have picked it up yourself ...   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 09 May 2002 14:43:22 +0100 & From: Ken Green <Ken.Green@kgcc.co.uk>< Subject: Re: Capellas: Linux, Windows Will 'Eviscerate' Unix* Message-ID: <3CDA7CFA.BC4C7E8E@kgcc.co.uk>   Bob Ceculski wrote:     H > I didn't cross post to hp, I post only in vms ... you must have picked > it up yourself ...  E You might not have intended to cross post it to other newsgroups, but > I'm afraid you did. AFAIK this whole thread has been posted to   comp.unix.tru64s comp.sys.hp.hpux andn comp.os.vmsd   Cheers   Ken    ------------------------------   Date: 9 May 2002 07:24:36 -0700o( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)< Subject: Re: Capellas: Linux, Windows Will 'Eviscerate' Unix= Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0205090624.559a0fc8@posting.google.com>l  s "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote in message news:<sxlC8.109304$n7.9912852@bin8.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>... 5 > "Ken Green" <Ken.Green@kgcc.co.uk> wrote in messagee& > news:3CD97754.54D6B3B0@kgcc.co.uk... >  > ...c > ? > > Look if you want to post childish flame bait please keep itiD > > to your own newgroup and don't cross post it to comp.sys.hp.hpuxD > > I'm sure after so many years there must be a vms advocacy group. >  > Not that I'm aware of. > M > Apologies for Bob the Mouth:  he's an embarrassment in comp.os.vms as well.a< > Apparently too stupid know that his brand of 'advocacy' isM > counter-productive (and believe me, it's not for lack of having been told).a >  > - bill  E your the one counterproductive ... you seem like a disgruntled ex dec17 employee ... you do vms no service by your postings ...t) maybe Andrew at sun has a job for you ...a   ------------------------------   Date: 9 May 2002 07:27:35 -0700t( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)< Subject: Re: Capellas: Linux, Windows Will 'Eviscerate' Unix= Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0205090627.435e9657@posting.google.com>p  d Robert Gilster <robert.l.gilster@boeing.com> wrote in message news:<3CD97C3C.7296687F@boeing.com>... > H > Maybe if Digital didn't charge an arm and a leg for VMS way back when,A > schools would have been content to use it.  Maybe if VMS wasn'tyH > protected so tightly by Digital way back when, schools could have usedF > it as a teaching tool.  As it is, UNIX stepped in as a good teachingF > tool, is flexible, and at least in the past, didn't require specificJ > hardware.  Since Digital was so possessive, nobody learned it, so nobodyG > can administrate it, so nobody uses it.  Yes its secure, yes its rockDI > solid, yes its a very, very, very good OS - but I hate using it becausePF > I don't know it very well.  Windows and UNIX are popular because wayI > back when people learned how to use them, then they told their friends,-# > who told their friends, who .....1 > G > The only thing that Digital was guilty of, in my mind, is poor publicPI > relations.  This is a low blow, but consider the average age of the VMS I > administrator vs. the average age of the UNIX/Windows administrator - IuE > would image that VMS is leading by about 15 years, i.e. fresh bloods5 > isn't pouring into the adminstration resource pool.t  6 vms is not expensive ... and you get what you pay for!   ------------------------------   Date: 9 May 2002 07:28:51 -0700y( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)< Subject: Re: Capellas: Linux, Windows Will 'Eviscerate' Unix= Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0205090628.580b33a5@posting.google.com>.  [ peter@abbnm.com (Peter da Silva) wrote in message news:<abcf2j$st3@web.eng.baileynm.com>...i? > In article <d7791aa1.0205081041.10ba6c3d@posting.google.com>,t+ > Bob Ceculski <bob@instantwhip.com> wrote:hC > > OpenVMS is a joke ... it's GARBAGE!  VMS has been thru 22 yearsf* > > of battles and no other OS comes close > J > Um, Bob, UNIX has been around longer than VMS. So, for that matter, haveD > just about all the *other* enterprise operating systems available. > C > And if the Internet was VMS based, we'd be reading all those CERT3< > announcements about the latest variant of the WANK worm...  > this is 2002, not 1987 ... your living in the past ... time to0 look at the present alpha vms, not 1987 vax/vms!   ------------------------------   Date: 9 May 2002 07:29:37 -0700f( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)< Subject: Re: Capellas: Linux, Windows Will 'Eviscerate' Unix= Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0205090629.7eb3930d@posting.google.com>   r Bill Gunshannon <bill@cs.uofs.edu> wrote in message news:<20020508203928.M20469-100000@server2.cs.scranton.edu>...$ > On 8 May 2002, Bob Ceculski wrote: > ? > >             Check the cert site or other comp.os boards andBB > > wonder in amazement how stupid everyone is for ever running on$ > > these mickey mouse platforms ... > >g > E > I did check CERT.  You didn't answer my question about why youe nothC > running Primos, RT-11, RSTS/E or RSX-11.  They all have less CERTdD > advisories than even VMS. Added all together, those four OSes haveD > a grand total of 0.  If your really concerned with security, start > migrating today!!n >  > bill  < as soon as you write an ip stack for rsts/e, let me know ...   ------------------------------   Date: 9 May 2002 07:34:35 -0700 ( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)< Subject: Re: Capellas: Linux, Windows Will 'Eviscerate' Unix= Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0205090634.3aee3af2@posting.google.com>+  n Mike Coleman <mkc+dated+1023501053.10b8ae@mathdogs.com> wrote in message news:<874rhi13em.fsf@mathdogs.com>..., > bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski) writes:% > > ... any other platform other than.' > > OpenVMS is a joke ... it's GARBAGE!e > N > You sound like I did when I was switching from VMS to Unix.  Of course, thatB > was 15 years ago and I got over it in a couple of months...  :-) > M > As I recall, our VMS box got cracked several times and had to be taken downpK > for several hours a week for "maintenance".  I don't miss it much, excepteN > maybe for SHOW PROCESS.  I suspect that you would find that most of what youO > like about VMS exists in the Unix/Linux world, plus a whole load of tools youo > haven't dreamt of. > N > Whether or not you're correct about VMS, you can't really know unless you'veP > drunk the alternative Kool Aid.  The best favor you could do yourself would beO > to swear off VMS for one year and immerse yourself in the world of another OSRM > (Linux would be my pick).  Even if it doesn't change your mind, you'll know 2 > exactly where and why VMS is better, first hand. > 
 > Regards, > Mike  . again, this is 2002, not 1987 ... try reading   9 > >>|> The best hackers in the country tried to hack VMS:e6 > >>|>      http://www.pointsecure.com/Defconwhite.pdf( > >>|>   "Virtually Unhackable" DEFCON9:  C vms uptime, clustering 99.9999 ... unix/linux, I don't think so ...aE I have been on vms 17+ years now still waiting for my first os crash,n what about you?tB security?  try comp.os.linux security ... "help I've been rooted"!, again try reading the above defcon9 link ...# sorry, vms trashes all competition!e   ------------------------------   Date: 9 May 2002 14:42:23 GMTc# From: damercer@mmm.com (Dan Mercer)a< Subject: Re: Capellas: Linux, Windows Will 'Eviscerate' Unix) Message-ID: <abe1sf$3s1$4@magnum.mmm.com>F  5 In article <20020509002426.02805fec.hoendech@ecc.lu>,e+ Stefaan A Eeckels <hoendech@ecc.lu> writes:  > On 8 May 2002 15:20:52 -05000 > koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) wrote: > J >> In article <20020508160416.4d076561.hoendech@ecc.lu>, Stefaan A Eeckels >> <hoendech@ecc.lu> writes:@ >> > There are no binary configuration files in System V derived >> > systems.  >> l  >>    BZZZT.  HP-UX.  You loose. > B > HP-UX only has some sideways influences from SysV (via UnixWare,? > around HP-UX 10.0, 1994). Its real ancestry is 4.2BSD. Thanksy > for playing. >   = Its shells have always been system V,  never BSD (thank God).u? With HP-UX 10,  the shift to SysV and away from BSD became evens
 more evident.      -- M
 Dan Mercer damercer@mmm.com      P Opinions expressed herein are my own and may not represent those of my employer.   ------------------------------   Date: 9 May 2002 14:39:05 GMTt# From: damercer@mmm.com (Dan Mercer)i< Subject: Re: Capellas: Linux, Windows Will 'Eviscerate' Unix) Message-ID: <abe1m9$3s1$3@magnum.mmm.com>o  5 In article <20020509001631.42734cd5.hoendech@ecc.lu>,u+ Stefaan A Eeckels <hoendech@ecc.lu> writes:  > On 8 May 2002 14:25:03 GMT& > damercer@mmm.com (Dan Mercer) wrote: > 8 >> In article <20020508160416.4d076561.hoendech@ecc.lu>,. >> Stefaan A Eeckels <hoendech@ecc.lu> writes: > @ >> > There are no binary configuration files in System V derived >> > systems.  >> 1D >> Although this is largely true,  it is not completely true.  WhileI >> the BSD printing system (LPR) is entirely based on ASCII config files,fJ >> regrettably the SysV system (LPD) is not.  This makes it very difficult3 >> to work with or to duplicate to a mirror server.h > @ > Did you check this? The configuration files are under /etc/lp, > and they're all text files.   @ Only if the printers are connected to the LPT port.  If you have@ network LPD or LPR printers,  then the ASCII text files tell you= very little.  For instance I have a printer attached to my NT@E PC that I access via LPR.  What files actually point to its location:       $ find /var/spool/lp \j    >      /etc/lp \r    >      /usr/lib/lp     >      -follow \m    >      -type f \t'    >      -exec grep -iq w09876 {} \; \d    >      -exec file {} \;=    /var/spool/lp/request/w09876/.sendingstatus:    ascii textS    /var/spool/lp/pstatus:  datae    /var/spool/lp/qstatus:  data %    /var/spool/lp/default:  ascii text     /var/spool/lp/outputq:  dataN  ? The three files that control where the output is sent,  pstatusb9 qstatus amd outputq are all binaries.  Their contents areeC constructed by the lpadmin command and only queryable by the lpstati= command.  I have never been able to figure out how to clone ad- configuration from one LPD system to another.g   -- i
 Dan Mercer damercer@mmm.com  ' Admittedly, one wouldn't edit Solaris'se: > filter.table for fun, but that doesn't make it a binary.< > AIX has a "digested" version of /etc/qconfig aptly called < > /etc/qconfig.bin, and that's indeed a pain, but then ACHES< > is a pain generally. This is not a feature of LPD, but an : > implemetation issue - and in addition, AIX isn't a SysV 
 > derivative.o > > > I don't consider /usr/lib/lp the configuration files of LPD. >       P Opinions expressed herein are my own and may not represent those of my employer.   ------------------------------   Date: 9 May 2002 15:30:12 GMTo1 From: bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) < Subject: Re: Capellas: Linux, Windows Will 'Eviscerate' Unix, Message-ID: <abe4m4$244q$1@info.cs.uofs.edu>  < In article <d7791aa1.0205090535.2fd5ae7@posting.google.com>,+  bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski) writes:l[ |> Ken Green <Ken.Green@kgcc.co.uk> wrote in message news:<3CD97754.54D6B3B0@kgcc.co.uk>...e |> > e |> > n@ |> > Look if you want to post childish flame bait please keep itE |> > to your own newgroup and don't cross post it to comp.sys.hp.hpux-E |> > I'm sure after so many years there must be a vms advocacy group.. |> eI |> I didn't cross post to hp, I post only in vms ... you must have pickedg |> it up yourself ...r   Bob,?   Are you really that clueless??  Do you have any idea how yourm/ newsreader or even News in general even works??u  . >>>   From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)> >>>   Newsgroups: comp.unix.tru64,comp.sys.hp.hpux,comp.os.vms2                                   ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^B >>>   Subject: Re: Capellas: Linux, Windows Will 'Eviscerate' Unix% >>>   Date: 8 May 2002 11:41:07 -0700 - >>>   Organization: http://groups.google.com/t   bill   -- .J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------   Date: 9 May 2002 15:33:18 GMTa1 From: bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)h< Subject: Re: Capellas: Linux, Windows Will 'Eviscerate' Unix, Message-ID: <abe4ru$244q$2@info.cs.uofs.edu>  = In article <d7791aa1.0205090627.435e9657@posting.google.com>, +  bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski) writes:5g |> Robert Gilster <robert.l.gilster@boeing.com> wrote in message news:<3CD97C3C.7296687F@boeing.com>...P |> >  K |> > Maybe if Digital didn't charge an arm and a leg for VMS way back when, D |> > schools would have been content to use it.  Maybe if VMS wasn'tK |> > protected so tightly by Digital way back when, schools could have usedmI |> > it as a teaching tool.  As it is, UNIX stepped in as a good teaching I |> > tool, is flexible, and at least in the past, didn't require specificgM |> > hardware.  Since Digital was so possessive, nobody learned it, so nobodylJ |> > can administrate it, so nobody uses it.  Yes its secure, yes its rockL |> > solid, yes its a very, very, very good OS - but I hate using it becauseI |> > I don't know it very well.  Windows and UNIX are popular because wayrL |> > back when people learned how to use them, then they told their friends,& |> > who told their friends, who ..... |> > tJ |> > The only thing that Digital was guilty of, in my mind, is poor publicL |> > relations.  This is a low blow, but consider the average age of the VMSL |> > administrator vs. the average age of the UNIX/Windows administrator - IH |> > would image that VMS is leading by about 15 years, i.e. fresh blood8 |> > isn't pouring into the adminstration resource pool. |> e |> vms is not expensive ...    As compared to what??   : |>                           and you get what you pay for!  ; Not true in this business for a long, long time.  Or do youe< really think MS Office is worth the $479 quoted on the front of a recent trade rag??'   bill   -- oJ Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   l   ------------------------------   Date: 9 May 2002 11:02:47 -0500i- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)a< Subject: Re: Capellas: Linux, Windows Will 'Eviscerate' Unix3 Message-ID: <Z5TMGQgVsj1L@eisner.encompasserve.org>m  ` In article <abe4ru$244q$2@info.cs.uofs.edu>, bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes:  < > |>                           and you get what you pay for! > = > Not true in this business for a long, long time.  Or do youD> > really think MS Office is worth the $479 quoted on the front > of a recent trade rag??i  0 Presumably it is worth that to those who buy it.  A What I paid to not get it may be closer to the fair market value,s5 but a lot of organizations have not figured that out.    ------------------------------   Date: 9 May 2002 16:11:46 -0000e4 From: Doc.Cypher <Use-Author-Address-Header@[127.1]>< Subject: Re: Capellas: Linux, Windows Will 'Eviscerate' Unix5 Message-ID: <20020509161146.6816.qmail@gacracker.org>   A On 9 May 2002, bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) wrote:l= >In article <d7791aa1.0205090535.2fd5ae7@posting.google.com>, , > bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski) writes:5 >|> Ken Green <Ken.Green@kgcc.co.uk> wrote in message.* >|> news:<3CD97754.54D6B3B0@kgcc.co.uk>... >|> >  >|> > A >|> > Look if you want to post childish flame bait please keep it F >|> > to your own newgroup and don't cross post it to comp.sys.hp.hpuxF >|> > I'm sure after so many years there must be a vms advocacy group. >|> J >|> I didn't cross post to hp, I post only in vms ... you must have picked >|> it up yourself >|> ...  >  >Bob,r@ >  Are you really that clueless??  Do you have any idea how your0 >newsreader or even News in general even works??  @ Yes, I figure Bob is that clueless. He reads comp.os.vms via theK groups.google.com interface, so if you want to post something that he can'tc! see you can use X-No-Archive. :-)   F A while back I suggested that he find a decent news service (there areJ several free ones, and many good low cost ones). Nope, he just keeps usingK Google which has up to 9 hours delay on messages appearing. That's really a. poor man's way to read news.       Doc. -- ,6 The bigger the humbug, the better people will like it.K ~ Phineas Taylor Barnum.                             https://vmsbox.cjb.nete   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 09 May 2002 17:27:05 -0000i- From: wspencer@ap.nospam.org (Warren Spencer)o< Subject: Re: Capellas: Linux, Windows Will 'Eviscerate' Unix7 Message-ID: <92098C765warrenspencer1977@209.249.90.100>   0 Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) wrote in) <Z5TMGQgVsj1L@eisner.encompasserve.org>: x  G >In article <abe4ru$244q$2@info.cs.uofs.edu>, bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu  >(Bill Gunshannon) writes: 0 > = >> |>                           and you get what you pay for!: >> x> >> Not true in this business for a long, long time.  Or do you? >> really think MS Office is worth the $479 quoted on the fronts >> of a recent trade rag?? >x1 >Presumably it is worth that to those who buy it..  G For those that buy it, I'd be interested to know if they're new to the .I product, and thus buy it based on its stand-alone value, or whether many sL purchases are coerced via MS's relentless push on the upgrade wheel.  Seems H to me that some or perhaps many purchases are not based solely on stand- alone value.   ws  
 -- snip --     -- o   Warren Spencer' Senior Software Engineer (not a writer)n The Associated Press  < ** Time flies like an arrow.  Fruit flies like a bananna. **   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 09 May 2002 10:08:26 +0200t= From: Arne =?iso-8859-1?Q?Vajh=F8j?= <arne.vajhoej@gtech.com>s) Subject: Re: CSWS / CSWB / MX Speculation.) Message-ID: <3CDA2E7A.F78C5399@gtech.com>t   david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk wrote: k > In article <3CD925D9.9B6CF4CE@gtech.com>, Arne =?iso-8859-1?Q?Vajh=F8j?= <arne.vajhoej@gtech.com> writes:b8 > >That has been the market direction the last 5 years ! > Q > Sorry there are probably more Unix based mail server systems running around thet6 > world than Exchange servers by quite a large margin.  8 Email users: yes (the ISP's got millions of POP3 users).  8 Email servers: questionable (most Unix based POP3 server1 can serve a lot more users than Exchange servers.f  : (And most important) dollars spend on email: no way (there3 are much more money in delivering email solution tos6 corporations than to supply email solutions to ISP's).  M > By the way has hotmail now finally been converted to run on Exchange or areg > Microsoft still trying ?  > I doubt that MS has ever tried to convert Hotmail to Exchange.  B They have changed converting the platform from Solaris to Windows. Without luck as far as I know.  L > Open standards such as IMAP, POP and web access mean that a mail system is- > logically split into 3 separate components.n >  > 1) Message transfer agent  > 2) Mail Stores > 3) Mail client > P > If you are using Exchange via POP, IMAP or Web access then you are not tied to( > using Microsoft specific Mail clients.L > Conversly if you are using Microsoft Outlook but using it with IMAP or POP* > then you are not tied to using Exchange. > M > Mail systems have always been about being able to transfer messages betweeniL > dis-similar systems. This has led to a standardisation on the TCPIP and inK > particular the SMTP protocol.  Similarly remote access to mail has led tooN > standardisation on the POP and IMAP protocols and latterly to web based mail	 > access.n  C I do not agree. If you need full functionality of Exchange you needeD Outlook. People are used to the full functionality. They require it.  A We can argue from now to eternity that the MS way of doing thingsi3 is bad from a software architectural point of view.>  ; But MS sales figures proves that it is good from a business  point of view.  K > Exchange was originally conceived as a monolithic proprietary mail system Q > with the clients (Outlook) tied directly to the server system. You couldn't use N > one without the other. Outlook licenses also cost money and because this wasN > a monopoly situation this could have been extremly profitable for Microsoft. >.K > Hence to answer your question I would expect that quite a large number ofhO > Outlook licenses which would have needed to be purchased so that remote users < > can access their mail on Exchange have not been purchased.  < Maybe true. But I think MS can live with that. Because it is@ "second licenses". The company for for Windows, pay for Exchange@ and pay for MS Office (which includes Outlook) on the work PC's.= That people can read their email from home without paying forM9 an extra Outlook license is ofcourse lost revenue, but MS  are not doing that bad.s  > [besides non-outlook client <-> Exchange is another story than  Outlook <-> non-Exchange server]   Arne   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 09 May 2002 10:29:35 +0200o= From: Arne =?iso-8859-1?Q?Vajh=F8j?= <arne.vajhoej@gtech.com>h) Subject: Re: CSWS / CSWB / MX Speculationv) Message-ID: <3CDA336E.B8C6315C@gtech.com>    Peter LANGSTOEGER wrote:k > In article <3CD8DD00.D7BA9CE5@gtech.com>, Arne =?iso-8859-1?Q?Vajh=F8j?= <arne.vajhoej@gtech.com> writes:pD > >The discussion is abouther whether there are a big market for VMS > >as email-servers. > > D > >My point is that there are not, because the mail servers lacks in* > >client-support/mail-reading capability. > >- > >This does not work: > >30 > >                           |--PC with Outlook > >--firewall--VMS MX server--| 0 > >                           |--PC with Outlook >  > Wrong. > H > PC with Outlook CAN be used with IMAP4 (and POP3) and then there is NOB > extra software needed on VMS server (but maybe you prefer PMDF).I > PC with Outlook Express can be served, too (OE also speaks IMAP4/POP3).o  ; I have already replied to two other posts saying that with:c  2 "Do you claim that MS Office Outlook will function/ with full functionality (including calendar anda1 email arrival notification) up against a VMS POP3  server ????"  - Noone has wanted to claim that it would work.h  8 There are cases where POP3/IMAP4 will be sufficient, but- Exchange will run with the big market-share !o  H > PC with Outlook can also be used with MAPI (!) but then there is extraC > software needed on the VMS server: Office Server (aka ALL-IN-ONE)lD > A1 does include the MAPI protocol (as does/did Open Mail from HP).  ? If that actually supplies the full functionality of an Exchangee$ server, then this is an alternative.  A I just got a bad feeling that Office Server will be as PathWorks:e= always a year behind MS because MS constantly changes things.    I > Only question is, what Outlook Features do you need, what VMS w/ or w/opJ > Office Server does NOT offer ? Calendar ? Is the calendar and the publicG > folder support also in Office-Server ? Is there a Fax-Add-On Software.G > for Office-Server ? Is there a Multi-Privacy-Level-Calendar with SyncnE > Functions Add-On-Software also available for Office-Server on VMS ?e  < This is all those features that are required for a corporate email solution today.m   > >This will work: > >-I > >                                                    |--PC with Outlook(8 > >--firewall--VMS MX server--Windows Exchange server--|I > >                                                    |--PC with Outlook< > F > Yes, and that is was most companies with still a VMS mail server do.F > Anti-SPAM, Listserver, central SMTP-Mail-Hub (even for communicationF > between the internal exchange servers) and maybe even virus checkingH > done on VMS; mailboxes and calendar/public-folders on Exchange (2000).  ' Yes. And VMS is excellent for that job.V  A But unfortunatetly MS tend to ran with most of the money (because ? it is often 1 central mail-hub and 10 or 100 Exchange servers).,  ? > >That is why I say it would not be a huge commercial success.  > J > Yes, but not for technical (or cost) reasons. Only cause of mindshare...L > You know, you won't be fired for becoming a M$ only IT-department/company.   I do not quite agree.e  9 It is one of the cases where MS are using their dominancey& to push their crap on the server side.  8 MS Office has become the defacto Office standard. Office8 includes Outlook. Outlook offers only full functionality6 with an Exchange server. Exchange only run on Windows.   ? > >I like PMDF and in my opinion a VMS PMDF server and IMAP4 as9< > >standard for email reading protocol is the best solution. > G > It is also because of the non WinCE handhelds and the growing numberscE > of PC clients with U**X instead of M$ and their mailprograms (which, > might OTOH be Outlook, too)h  F There has been a lot of hype about Linux and Star Office / Open Office attacking MS on the desktop.  ( So far I have not seen much materialize.  7 Good example: SUN send out a glossy brochure in Denmark(4 naming two very well-known danish companies as using5 Star Office. When the danish version of ComputerWorlde5 called the companies and asked for details, then theyo4 were told that they had experimented a bit with Star Office but dropped it again.  5 We can hope that the new MS licensing policy combinedc1 with the new version of Star Office / Open Office  may start changing things.   But that remains to be seen.  l? > >But there are a couple of hundred millions of Office packagec > >users that thinks otherwise.y >  > Yup.M > But you know the old statement "Eat shit, billions of flies can't be wrong"r, > I personally don't want to become a fly...   I do know that saying.  7 But unfortunatetly there are a big stickiness in market/; shares of office applications. Most ordinary office workersa8 prefer to work with a word-processor they know. The only5 reason Word beat WordPerfect was that there was an OSo change from DOS to Windows.h   Arne   ------------------------------   Date: 9 May 2002 09:07 CDT' From: carl@gerg.tamu.edu (Carl Perkins) ) Subject: Re: CSWS / CSWB / MX Speculationd, Message-ID: <9MAY200209074368@gerg.tamu.edu>  A Arne =?iso-8859-1?Q?Vajh=F8j?= <arne.vajhoej@gtech.com> writes...o }Carl Perkins wrote:D }> Arne =?iso-8859-1?Q?Vajh=F8j?= <arne.vajhoej@gtech.com> writes... }> }This does not work:r }> }1 }> }                           |--PC with Outlook   }> }--firewall--VMS MX server--|1 }> }                           |--PC with Outlooks }> e9 }> Yes it does. Just use POP3 or IMAP4, both of which aret% }> available with Outlook and on VMS.t } 2 }Do you claim that MS Office Outlook will function0 }with full functionality (including calendar and2 }email arrival notification) up against a VMS POP3 }server ???? }  }Arnem  ? When talking mail, which we were, yes - it is fully functional.-  Mail flows in a reliable manner.  : You certainly do get mail arrival notifications with POP3.< These are, naturally, when the mail arrives on your PC (with? POP, if it hasn't arrived on your PC, you can't read it anyway)0D after either one of the regularly scheduled checks, or after sending> a message (since a "send" is, as I recal, actually a "send andD check for new mail"), or after an explicit "check for new messages".A Most people here set the polling interval to 15 - 30 minutes, butoD some have other values, down to 10 minutes or up to an hour or more.E IMAP works rather similarly, but Outlook tends to hold the connection>@ open for as long as it is running and when it is it seems to get@ notified of new messages pretty quickly - probably not more thanD a minute after they arrive. I think this is probably client polling, but it could be server pushing.   > A calendar is not mail. Your calendar will still work for you, it just won't be public.  B What is more important, a calendar feature or e-mail that actuallyD works? In our case, we consider an e-mail system that is reliable to, be far more important than shared calendars.  H You can always set up a web based calendar if you need shared calendars.   --- Carl   ------------------------------  * Date: Thu, 9 May 2002 14:00:19 +0000 (UTC) From: david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk) Subject: Re: CSWS / CSWB / MX Speculation + Message-ID: <abdvdj$iup$1@aquila.mdx.ac.uk>   i In article <3CDA2E7A.F78C5399@gtech.com>, Arne =?iso-8859-1?Q?Vajh=F8j?= <arne.vajhoej@gtech.com> writes:a  >david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk wrote:l >> In article <3CD925D9.9B6CF4CE@gtech.com>, Arne =?iso-8859-1?Q?Vajh=F8j?= <arne.vajhoej@gtech.com> writes:9 >> >That has been the market direction the last 5 years !( >> eR >> Sorry there are probably more Unix based mail server systems running around the7 >> world than Exchange servers by quite a large margin.e > 9 >Email users: yes (the ISP's got millions of POP3 users).n > 9 >Email servers: questionable (most Unix based POP3 serverM2 >can serve a lot more users than Exchange servers. >   N No I was talking mail servers - just about every Unix system ships with a freeK mail server (Sendmail). A large number of these will be replaced with otheriL mailservers (Sendmail has a bad security history) however a large number of O places still use it behind firewalls both as a central mailhub and as a centraleK mailstore. POP, IMAP or web-access has to be setup but again there are freet, public domain pieces of software to do this.@ Of course there are also commercial products on Unix to do this.  J Users access their mail in many different ways not just POP. POP, IMAP,webO access and also local mail clients - they can telnet or ssh into the system andn% run PINE or other local mail clients.s  H But I'm glad you agree that Exchange can't support as many users as most Unix based POP3 servers.      ; >(And most important) dollars spend on email: no way (theres4 >are much more money in delivering email solution to7 >corporations than to supply email solutions to ISP's).> >s  M The fact that a solution is free doesn't make it a worse solution. Especiallya& when compared with Microsoft products.L I have no doubt that Microsoft makes more money out of Exchange than any of ( the commercial Unix mailserver vendors. : And just why is this important - apart from to Microsoft ?  : (This discussion is getting very offtopic for comp.os.vms)  N >> By the way has hotmail now finally been converted to run on Exchange or are >> Microsoft still trying ?a >|? >I doubt that MS has ever tried to convert Hotmail to Exchange.- >-C >They have changed converting the platform from Solaris to Windows.  >Without luck as far as I know.C >lI My understanding was that the aim of these conversions was to get hotmailrM running on Exchange. Its bad publicity for Microsoft when they can't run suchg" an ISP on their own mail platform.  M >> Open standards such as IMAP, POP and web access mean that a mail system isr. >> logically split into 3 separate components. >> D >> 1) Message transfer agent >> 2) Mail Store >> 3) Mail client  >> rQ >> If you are using Exchange via POP, IMAP or Web access then you are not tied toi) >> using Microsoft specific Mail clients.aM >> Conversly if you are using Microsoft Outlook but using it with IMAP or POP-+ >> then you are not tied to using Exchange.: >>  N >> Mail systems have always been about being able to transfer messages betweenM >> dis-similar systems. This has led to a standardisation on the TCPIP and inaL >> particular the SMTP protocol.  Similarly remote access to mail has led toO >> standardisation on the POP and IMAP protocols and latterly to web based mail@
 >> access. > D >I do not agree. If you need full functionality of Exchange you needE >Outlook. People are used to the full functionality. They require it.| > H Some may need that functionality most don't. Quite a few have installed J Exchange just because of it's calendering and then found virtually none of( their staff want to use the calendering.  B >We can argue from now to eternity that the MS way of doing things4 >is bad from a software architectural point of view. > < >But MS sales figures proves that it is good from a business >point of view.w >a  K So what ?  Tying someone in to a proprietary solution is always good from a N business point of view (that is from the point of view of the business sellingG the proprietary solution). Microsoft sells a lot of exchange servers to I corporate businesses on  "Microsoft is the standard/ noone got fired for e buying Microsoft".    L >> Exchange was originally conceived as a monolithic proprietary mail systemR >> with the clients (Outlook) tied directly to the server system. You couldn't useO >> one without the other. Outlook licenses also cost money and because this wasuO >> a monopoly situation this could have been extremly profitable for Microsoft.- >>L >> Hence to answer your question I would expect that quite a large number ofP >> Outlook licenses which would have needed to be purchased so that remote users= >> can access their mail on Exchange have not been purchased.e >p= >Maybe true. But I think MS can live with that. Because it ismA >"second licenses". The company for for Windows, pay for ExchangeiA >and pay for MS Office (which includes Outlook) on the work PC's. > >That people can read their email from home without paying for: >an extra Outlook license is ofcourse lost revenue, but MS >are not doing that bad. >s? >[besides non-outlook client <-> Exchange is another story than ! >Outlook <-> non-Exchange server]  >s  M I was just answering your question which as I recall (unfortunately you have  K snipped it) asked whether Microsoft had lost any sales of outlook licenses  J due to the possibility of people using the IMAP,POP and web access methods added to Exchange.  ? As I said above this is getting very off topic for comp.os.vms.nO I believe that myself and others have demonstrated that there would be a marketrN for a VMS based mail solution (and indeed is - Since I already run such a VMS O PMDF based POP,IMAP,Web accessable mail solution at Middlesex University as do 2- many other PMDF users at other institutions).h    
 David Webb VMS and Unix team leader CCSS Middlesex University   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 09 May 2002 18:07:49 +0100.U From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <andrew_nospam.harrison_remove_this@sun#.com><) Subject: Re: CSWS / CSWB / MX Speculationa0 Message-ID: <abead5$9mi$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>  > On a related subject if you want fully featured alternative to OutLook one is available.   C Its called evolution from a company called ximian. Free to download ? on Solaris and Linux. Its requires gnome and could be ported to " other platforms relatively easily.  ? Supports Calendaring, ToDo, Palm Integration via the gnome palm)	 conduits.e  @ It can also talk to an exchange server via a conduit provided by< ximian though for obvious reasons I have not seen this work.   Regards  Andrew Harrisont   Arne Vajhj wrote:   > Peter LANGSTOEGER wrote: > k >>In article <3CD8DD00.D7BA9CE5@gtech.com>, Arne =?iso-8859-1?Q?Vajh=F8j?= <arne.vajhoej@gtech.com> writes:  >>D >>>The discussion is abouther whether there are a big market for VMS >>>as email-servers. >>>aD >>>My point is that there are not, because the mail servers lacks in* >>>client-support/mail-reading capability. >>>  >>>This does not work: >>> / >>>                          |--PC with Outlooka >>>--firewall--VMS MX server--|r/ >>>                          |--PC with Outlookr >>>  >>Wrong. >>H >>PC with Outlook CAN be used with IMAP4 (and POP3) and then there is NOB >>extra software needed on VMS server (but maybe you prefer PMDF).I >>PC with Outlook Express can be served, too (OE also speaks IMAP4/POP3).  >> > = > I have already replied to two other posts saying that with:  > 4 > "Do you claim that MS Office Outlook will function1 > with full functionality (including calendar andP3 > email arrival notification) up against a VMS POP3  > server ????" > / > Noone has wanted to claim that it would work.e > : > There are cases where POP3/IMAP4 will be sufficient, but/ > Exchange will run with the big market-share !n >  > H >>PC with Outlook can also be used with MAPI (!) but then there is extraC >>software needed on the VMS server: Office Server (aka ALL-IN-ONE)sD >>A1 does include the MAPI protocol (as does/did Open Mail from HP). >> > A > If that actually supplies the full functionality of an Exchange & > server, then this is an alternative. > C > I just got a bad feeling that Office Server will be as PathWorks:w? > always a year behind MS because MS constantly changes things.l >    > I >>Only question is, what Outlook Features do you need, what VMS w/ or w/ogJ >>Office Server does NOT offer ? Calendar ? Is the calendar and the publicG >>folder support also in Office-Server ? Is there a Fax-Add-On SoftwarecG >>for Office-Server ? Is there a Multi-Privacy-Level-Calendar with SyncsE >>Functions Add-On-Software also available for Office-Server on VMS ?  >> > > > This is all those features that are required for a corporate > email solution today.o >  >  >>>This will work: >>>OH >>>                                                   |--PC with Outlook8 >>>--firewall--VMS MX server--Windows Exchange server--|H >>>                                                   |--PC with Outlook >>>-F >>Yes, and that is was most companies with still a VMS mail server do.F >>Anti-SPAM, Listserver, central SMTP-Mail-Hub (even for communicationF >>between the internal exchange servers) and maybe even virus checkingH >>done on VMS; mailboxes and calendar/public-folders on Exchange (2000). >> > ) > Yes. And VMS is excellent for that job.T > C > But unfortunatetly MS tend to ran with most of the money (becausemA > it is often 1 central mail-hub and 10 or 100 Exchange servers).m >  > ? >>>That is why I say it would not be a huge commercial success.  >>> J >>Yes, but not for technical (or cost) reasons. Only cause of mindshare...L >>You know, you won't be fired for becoming a M$ only IT-department/company. >> >  > I do not quite agree.l > ; > It is one of the cases where MS are using their dominancer( > to push their crap on the server side. > : > MS Office has become the defacto Office standard. Office: > includes Outlook. Outlook offers only full functionality8 > with an Exchange server. Exchange only run on Windows. >  i > ? >>>I like PMDF and in my opinion a VMS PMDF server and IMAP4 as < >>>standard for email reading protocol is the best solution. >>>?G >>It is also because of the non WinCE handhelds and the growing numbershE >>of PC clients with U**X instead of M$ and their mailprograms (whichm >>might OTOH be Outlook, too)l >> > H > There has been a lot of hype about Linux and Star Office / Open Office > attacking MS on the desktop. > * > So far I have not seen much materialize. > 9 > Good example: SUN send out a glossy brochure in Denmarke6 > naming two very well-known danish companies as using7 > Star Office. When the danish version of ComputerWorldf7 > called the companies and asked for details, then theyM6 > were told that they had experimented a bit with Star > Office but dropped it again. > 7 > We can hope that the new MS licensing policy combinedf3 > with the new version of Star Office / Open Officed > may start changing things. >  > But that remains to be seen. >  o > ? >>>But there are a couple of hundred millions of Office package  >>>users that thinks otherwise.a >>>b >>Yup.M >>But you know the old statement "Eat shit, billions of flies can't be wrong"r, >>I personally don't want to become a fly... >> >  > I do know that saying. > 9 > But unfortunatetly there are a big stickiness in marketr= > shares of office applications. Most ordinary office workers : > prefer to work with a word-processor they know. The only7 > reason Word beat WordPerfect was that there was an OSV > change from DOS to Windows., >  > Arne >    ------------------------------   Date: 9 May 2002 09:49 CDT' From: carl@gerg.tamu.edu (Carl Perkins) ) Subject: Re: Fix for EDT emulation in EVEn, Message-ID: <9MAY200209493236@gerg.tamu.edu>  2 SPAMSINK2001@YAHOO.COM (Alan E. Feldman) writes...G }In EDT I can easily write out the paste buffer with ^Z *WRITE FILE.TYPa% }=PASTE, then *C to get back to work.r } E }In EVE I have to do the following: Press Do, Command: SHOW SYS, move F }the cursor up to the line that says "Insert Here", press enter, pressG }Do again, Command: WRITE FILE.TYP, press Do *yet* again, Command: show/D }buff, move the cursor to the main buffer, press Return. Is there anF }eaiser way? And don't tell me I can write a routine to do it. I DON'TG }WANT TO WASTE MY TIME WRITING AND DEBUGGING TPU ROUTINES THAT ABORT AT D }LINE 1 JUST TO BE ABLE TO DO SOMETHING THIS SIMPLE. And writing the? }paste buffer to a file is something I actually do quite often.V }Alan E. Feldman   Two methods: 1) press DOG type  OPEN FILE.TYP (opens existing or new file FILE.TYP in new buffer)hC type  PF1 KP6       (paste contents of paste buffer to this buffer)U press DOO type  WRITE         (writes current buffer to it's default file name, FILE.TYP)a press DO< type  BUFFER starting.place (go back to the original buffer)  G 2) (much like your method, but use the buffer name instead of the list)a press DO type  BUFFER "INSERT HERE" press DO type  WRITE file.typ press DO" type  BUFFER name-of.original-file  B The former does not require that you remember what the name of theD paste bufer is ("INSERT HERE" is not exactly as obvious as "PASTE").D The latter is slightly shorter and doesn't involve creating a bufferB for the new file that duplicates the contents of the paste buffer.  ; As for me, I like LSE (which is a lot like EVE, of course).t   --- Carl   ------------------------------   Date: 9 May 2002 09:10:25 GMTc- From: djweath@attglobal.net (Dave Weatherall) 6 Subject: Re: Forced migration to HPHUX - Storm Warning5 Message-ID: <DTiotGxQ0bj6-pn2-wdo3ykZ3FdLF@localhost>c  C On Wed, 8 May 2002 16:44:50 UTC, StormWatcher@helferlein.net wrote:a  0 > "Peter Weaver" <peter.weaver@stelco.ca> wrote: > >.C > >"Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> wrote in messaget6 > >news:kL9C8.12$ne6.276675@cacnews.cac.cpqcorp.net... > >>...aN > >> There isn't any "forced migration" of VMS customers to HP-UX, although if > aa > >>...  > 6 > >But if you watch the news conference from yesterdayI > >(http://hpmsweb1.com/content/271_287/day1_press.htm) and fast forward gP > >to 1:16:03 you will hear Carley say "You want to migrate customers off >thoseN > platforms onto new platforms over time. That's what they want and, >frankly, > that's what we want."  > M > >I believe the question she is answering begins around 1:12:45 if you >wantl > to hear the quote in context.   C Now I'm getting confused (no I haven't read the roadmap - too busy P$ working - today's a public holiday).  D I thought Tru64 (Little Endian) had been marked down to die and the F IA64 port stopped. The intention being that the/a HP UNIX (Big Endian)D gets tweaked to get the fancy features from Tru64. Now the quotes I D read here, from the Roadmap, Q/A sessions and even VMS times, imply E that HPQ are going to promote the migration from VMS (little endian)  E to a/the HP Unix. (is that PA-RISC or IA64, Big or Little-end?). But n- the VMS port to IA-64 (little-end) goes on...u  ; Q1 Is PA-RISC Unix the same HP-Unix that will run on IA-64?a  F Q2. Is this conversion from endian-ness really so simple as all these ! statements about migration imply?   @ The experience my team is getting when moving stuff from VMS to @ Solaris doesn't tie up with that - and all we've done so far is F exchange records over TCP/IP. Manual swapping to be done (yeah I know C you call 'ntoh' for each word or element but it's not efficient is pD it?) We haven't even touched moving/processing files with irregular = binary content. It seems to me we'll have to have a lot of :-i   	IF Big-endian THEN  	  tweak as necessaryy   	ELSEIF Little-endian THEN 	  tweak as necessary    	ELSEr"                      assume native 	ENDIF  E I suppose once we've gone through the pain it will be easier to walk f9 away from VMS though. And VAX/ELN, DecNet, RMS with it...i   -- e Cheers - Dave.  F PS My project manager told us monday that VMS is dead (medium term for+ our project) ... Where's that Solaris book?d   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 09 May 2002 14:16:05 GMT # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> 6 Subject: Re: Forced migration to HPHUX - Storm WarningH Message-ID: <FwvC8.25486$GLp1.5754@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>  : "Dave Weatherall" <djweath@attglobal.net> wrote in message/ news:DTiotGxQ0bj6-pn2-wdo3ykZ3FdLF@localhost...a >aH > PS My project manager told us monday that VMS is dead (medium term for- > our project) ... Where's that Solaris book?w >e  K That's EXACTLY the message HP sent about VMS with the way they worded theirt announcements.  I Do what your boss says - migrate once to Solaris or AIX and keep your jobn safe.eK NEVER buy anything from HP again - not even an ink cartridge for an ink jetf printer.1 Canon, Epson, and Lexmark make fine printers too.a   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 09 May 2002 09:23:22 -0700 & From: Greg Cagle <gregc@gregcagle.com>6 Subject: Re: Forced migration to HPHUX - Storm Warning, Message-ID: <3CDAA27A.3000008@gregcagle.com>   Dave Weatherall wrote:- the VMS port to IA-64 (little-end) goes on...  > = > Q1 Is PA-RISC Unix the same HP-Unix that will run on IA-64?c   Yes - HP-UX (not HP/UX!).a   -- l
 Greg Cagle gregc at gregcagle dot com   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 09 May 2002 18:14:37 +0100iU From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <andrew_nospam.harrison_remove_this@sun#.com>e6 Subject: Re: Forced migration to HPHUX - Storm Warning0 Message-ID: <abeapt$9mi$2@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   Dave Weatherall wrote:  E > On Wed, 8 May 2002 16:44:50 UTC, StormWatcher@helferlein.net wrote:e >  > 0 >>"Peter Weaver" <peter.weaver@stelco.ca> wrote: >>C >>>"Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> wrote in messageo6 >>>news:kL9C8.12$ne6.276675@cacnews.cac.cpqcorp.net... >>>o >>>>...rM >>>>There isn't any "forced migration" of VMS customers to HP-UX, although ifu >>>> >>ae >> >>>>...  >>>>6 >>>But if you watch the news conference from yesterdayI >>>(http://hpmsweb1.com/content/271_287/day1_press.htm) and fast forward  P >>>to 1:16:03 you will hear Carley say "You want to migrate customers off >those >>>-N >>platforms onto new platforms over time. That's what they want and, >frankly, >>that's what we want."  >> >>M >>>I believe the question she is answering begins around 1:12:45 if you >wanty >>>a >>to hear the quote in context.r >> > E > Now I'm getting confused (no I haven't read the roadmap - too busy t& > working - today's a public holiday). > F > I thought Tru64 (Little Endian) had been marked down to die and the H > IA64 port stopped. The intention being that the/a HP UNIX (Big Endian)F > gets tweaked to get the fancy features from Tru64. Now the quotes I F > read here, from the Roadmap, Q/A sessions and even VMS times, imply G > that HPQ are going to promote the migration from VMS (little endian) sG > to a/the HP Unix. (is that PA-RISC or IA64, Big or Little-end?). But  / > the VMS port to IA-64 (little-end) goes on...e > = > Q1 Is PA-RISC Unix the same HP-Unix that will run on IA-64?  >     < Yes/No, its a port of HP-PA HP-UX to IA64, but it allows you: to execute HP-PA binaries (most) as well as IA64 binaries.     Regardst Andrew Harrisone   ------------------------------   Date: 9 May 2002 08:02:10 -0700e) From: P.Young@unsw.EDU.AU (Patrick Young)e4 Subject: Free to a good home: MicroVAX 3400 (in .AU)= Message-ID: <55f85d77.0205090702.58bd94a3@posting.google.com>h  > Due to the donation of a couple of Academics and an Alpha 8400; from another University - the HSZ50, TSZ07 and disks havingc= already arrived in my office - I'm running of space to do anyl work!e  ? I was keeping the MV 3400 to read 9 track tapes, however with ai TSZ07 I no longer need it.  9 It has 24Mb memory and a TU81 Plus tape drive. Either thel@ TU81 or KLESI is broken - I suspect the KLESI. A 400Mb and 150Mb DSSI disk is included.  > I want this out of my office, so please do not ask "can I have part xyzzy" - it is a job lot.  ? Equipment located at the University of New South Wales, Sydney,i
 Australia.   ------------------------------   Date: 9 May 2002 04:56:22 -0500f- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)e= Subject: Re: Gartner rides again (was Re: HP Product Roadmap)n3 Message-ID: <7O2QDCQqWuZC@eisner.encompasserve.org>p   In article <rdeininger-0805022303410001@1cust119.tnt1.nashua.nh.da.uu.net>, rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger) writes:  I > McGuckin is not only a weasel, he's a liar as well.  That's nothing newdL > from Gartner, who have been caught peddling blatant lies about VMS before. > J > HP didn't say support Alpha servers "for three years".  HP said continueH > to sell new Alpha servers until at least 2006, and continue to support > them until 2011.   > J > As it is now 2002, I make it 9 years of support.  Where did McGuckin get > three years.  I Perhaps he used an Excel spreadsheet on a Pentium for the calculation :-)p  B The thing to remember about publishing is the main goal is to sellC newspapers (or subscriptions).  If VMS makes a strong advance, theyc: can sell more "advice" based on "changes" in the industry.  8 People should use whatever computer gear does their job,: and nothing less.  That means VMS is not suitable for some8 tasks and is suitable for others.  It also means Windows is not suitable for some tasks.    ------------------------------   Date: 9 May 2002 06:29:49 -0700a( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)= Subject: Re: Gartner rides again (was Re: HP Product Roadmap)r= Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0205090529.23310e90@posting.google.com>i  h Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) wrote in message news:<7O2QDCQqWuZC@eisner.encompasserve.org>... > In article <rdeininger-0805022303410001@1cust119.tnt1.nashua.nh.da.uu.net>, rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger) writes: > K > > McGuckin is not only a weasel, he's a liar as well.  That's nothing newPN > > from Gartner, who have been caught peddling blatant lies about VMS before. > > L > > HP didn't say support Alpha servers "for three years".  HP said continueJ > > to sell new Alpha servers until at least 2006, and continue to support > > them until 2011.   > > L > > As it is now 2002, I make it 9 years of support.  Where did McGuckin get > > three years. > K > Perhaps he used an Excel spreadsheet on a Pentium for the calculation :-)  > D > The thing to remember about publishing is the main goal is to sellE > newspapers (or subscriptions).  If VMS makes a strong advance, theyF< > can sell more "advice" based on "changes" in the industry. > : > People should use whatever computer gear does their job,< > and nothing less.  That means VMS is not suitable for some: > tasks and is suitable for others.  It also means Windows! > is not suitable for some tasks.o  $ windoze isn't suitable for any task!   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 09 May 2002 14:21:12 GMTT1 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com>t= Subject: Re: Gartner rides again (was Re: HP Product Roadmap)m* Message-ID: <sBvC8.2958$L76.136@rwcrnsc53>  - <norm.raphael@jamesbury.com> wrote in messagem. news:C2256BB3.0057E343.00@jklh22.valmet.com... >o >b >u > From:i >e- > Analyst: HP delivers - with a few surprisesc >b# > By Michael S. Mimoso, News Editor  > 08 May 2002, SearchHP  >  > L http://searchhp.techtarget.com/originalContent/0,289142,sid6_gci822254,00.ht ml >| > .. > J > "If I was a Compaq customer today -- unless I was a Tru64 user -- I'd be feeling K > good. And if I was an HP-UX customer, I'd be feeling very good about what  was.E > announced," said Gartner vice president and research area director,P
 enterprise% > servers and storage, Paul McGuckin.  >t >aL > To no one's surprise, Compaq's proprietary version of Unix, Tru64, was put outfA > to pasture Tuesday. Doubtful Compaq users were placated by HP'sa announcementK > that it would enhance HP-UX with Tru64's high availability and clustering  > capabilities.r >r >aJ > "There were no real surprises," McGuckin said. "The merged company has aH > significant challenge to meet customer needs, deliver cost savings and keep > certain products." >o >aL > Though there were no real shockers, McGuckin said he was surprised at HP'sJ > decision to continue support of the OpenVMS operating system. OpenVMS, a DigitallD > leftover, runs on Compaq Alpha servers that HP said it continue to support,L > along with its PA-RISC-based servers, for three years. Then, the two lines woulds- > move to the Itanium Processor Family (IPF).  >n >lK > "I would not have kept OpenVMS," McGuckin said. "To keep investing in VMS/ toF > bring it to Itanium raises a concern that ISVs (independent software vendors)( > may not support it (for three years)."  H It is easy for an analyst, particularly a generously compensated one, to< spend other people's money, or to tell them how to spend it.  J It is infinitely MORE likely that ISVs will support an OS that is not tiedL to an architecture that will hit EOL within 5 years or so. The heavy liftingE on the port is just about done, stopping it now and driving the stake-I through the heart of a high-margin OS that brings in over $2B in revenue, B and precipitates a lot of Services-led sales, would have been IMHO
 foolhardy.  K Just my opinion, and I am neither highly paid nor do I wear an Armani suit.S   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 09 May 2002 14:22:09 GMT 1 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com> = Subject: Re: Gartner rides again (was Re: HP Product Roadmap)o* Message-ID: <lCvC8.4736$UV4.148@rwcrnsc54>  : "Larry Kilgallen" <Kilgallen@SpamCop.net> wrote in message- news:6Hv3FMvrJM1c@eisner.encompasserve.org... 6 > In article <C2256BB3.0057E343.00@jklh22.valmet.com>," norm.raphael@jamesbury.com writes: >lI > > "I would not have kept OpenVMS," McGuckin said. "To keep investing inr VMS toH > > bring it to Itanium raises a concern that ISVs (independent software vendors)* > > may not support it (for three years)." >tH > Certainly he would abandon VMS, as a major step toward making previousH > predictions come true.  It certainly is a bummer that actual customersF > want it and HP has been more heavily influenced by customers than by, > the Gartner group.  Life just isn't fair !  J Much as the social engineers and the redistributionistae in the governmentA would like to think otherwise, you have a very good point, Larry!    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 09 May 2002 14:22:47 GMTC1 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com>t= Subject: Re: Gartner rides again (was Re: HP Product Roadmap)h8 Message-ID: <XCvC8.4210$1B.56@rwcrnsc51.ops.asp.att.net>  : "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message& news:3CD9A9EE.224E2CCC@videotron.ca... > Bob Koehler wrote:I > >    Good old Gartner, still trying to kill VMS in three years, as theyi > >    have for the past 15. >p
 > I agree. >  >tH > The text from Gartner made Gartner lose credibility. The author should haveJ > just pointed out to the lack of serious commitment toVMS at a time where itF > needs a boost to go over the transition bump, the project to provide portingnI > from VMS to HPUX etc as indications that HP is not serious about VMS in  thet4 > long term and the the slow decline may accelerate. > J > Gartner lost a great opportunity to make a very valuable statement about HP,eI > but they screwed it. It is not Gartner's role to tell HP what it shoudl" do, it- > is its role to Analyse what HP plans to do.n   C'est vrai, mon ami.   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 09 May 2002 14:26:14 GMTe1 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com>i= Subject: Re: Gartner rides again (was Re: HP Product Roadmap)k9 Message-ID: <aGvC8.4225$1B.431@rwcrnsc51.ops.asp.att.net>e  ? "Robert Deininger" <rdeininger@mindspring.com> wrote in messageoE news:rdeininger-0805022303410001@1cust119.tnt1.nashua.nh.da.uu.net...06 > In article <C2256BB3.0057E343.00@jklh22.valmet.com>,# > norm.raphael@jamesbury.com wrote:  >n >eH > >Though there were no real shockers, McGuckin said he was surprised at HP'sK > >decision to continue support of the OpenVMS operating system. OpenVMS, aI	 > DigitalaE > >leftover, runs on Compaq Alpha servers that HP said it continue tof support,G > >along with its PA-RISC-based servers, for three years. Then, the two"
 > lines wouldr. > >move to the Itanium Processor Family (IPF). >P >rI > McGuckin is not only a weasel, he's a liar as well.  That's nothing neweL > from Gartner, who have been caught peddling blatant lies about VMS before. >eJ > HP didn't say support Alpha servers "for three years".  HP said continueH > to sell new Alpha servers until at least 2006, and continue to support > them until 2011.  K If not beyond. Sales through 2006 are a given, and could extend beyond that I (note how long people kept buying VAXen! If the govt, and those customers D under contractual obligation, continue to demand Alpha in sufficientH volumes, there is no reason why HPQ won't continue to sell the platform.  # And then there's the matter of COE.P   >rJ > As it is now 2002, I make it 9 years of support.  Where did McGuckin get > three years. >oC > If I had the cycles, I'd make a list of all the times Gartner hasFJ > predicted the death of VMS.  HP should have such a list handy to show toD > any customer who expresses worry about the latest Gartner hogwash.  F Apparently HPQ and others fear Gartner, or at least have an inordinateK amount of respect for the Masters of the Probability Factor. This is not to L malign GG, as they have some smart and capable folks working for them. Some,
 not all...   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 9 May 2002 10:24:15 -05001 From: "Dave Gudewicz" <david.gudewicz@abbott.com>M= Subject: Re: Gartner rides again (was Re: HP Product Roadmap):8 Message-ID: <abe4fc$30b$1@fizban.fizban.pprd.abbott.com>  F Who was the fellow that came from Gartner, went to DEC and started theL affinity program?  Forgot his name but when he rode off into the sunset many said:r  G "plop plop fizz fizz, oh what a relieve it is"  or something like that.s   -- Dave...L  6 If you pick up a starving dog and make him prosperous,, he will not bite you.  This is the principle# difference between a dog and a man.  -----Mark TwainB  < "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com> wrote in message3 news:aGvC8.4225$1B.431@rwcrnsc51.ops.asp.att.net...f >aA > "Robert Deininger" <rdeininger@mindspring.com> wrote in messageuG > news:rdeininger-0805022303410001@1cust119.tnt1.nashua.nh.da.uu.net... 8 > > In article <C2256BB3.0057E343.00@jklh22.valmet.com>,% > > norm.raphael@jamesbury.com wrote:g > >n > >uJ > > >Though there were no real shockers, McGuckin said he was surprised at > HP'sK > > >decision to continue support of the OpenVMS operating system. OpenVMS,l ay > > DigitalhG > > >leftover, runs on Compaq Alpha servers that HP said it continue tot
 > support,I > > >along with its PA-RISC-based servers, for three years. Then, the twoc > > lines wouldr0 > > >move to the Itanium Processor Family (IPF). > >A > >iK > > McGuckin is not only a weasel, he's a liar as well.  That's nothing newrF > > from Gartner, who have been caught peddling blatant lies about VMS before.l > >?L > > HP didn't say support Alpha servers "for three years".  HP said continueJ > > to sell new Alpha servers until at least 2006, and continue to support > > them until 2011. >eH > If not beyond. Sales through 2006 are a given, and could extend beyond thatK > (note how long people kept buying VAXen! If the govt, and those customersdF > under contractual obligation, continue to demand Alpha in sufficientJ > volumes, there is no reason why HPQ won't continue to sell the platform. >o% > And then there's the matter of COE.t >h > >vL > > As it is now 2002, I make it 9 years of support.  Where did McGuckin get > > three years. > > E > > If I had the cycles, I'd make a list of all the times Gartner has L > > predicted the death of VMS.  HP should have such a list handy to show toF > > any customer who expresses worry about the latest Gartner hogwash. >kH > Apparently HPQ and others fear Gartner, or at least have an inordinateJ > amount of respect for the Masters of the Probability Factor. This is not toH > malign GG, as they have some smart and capable folks working for them. Some,- > not all... >, >    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 09 May 2002 16:35:03 GMT:# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>r= Subject: Re: Gartner rides again (was Re: HP Product Roadmap)bF Message-ID: <XyxC8.7700$QOT.6266@news02.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>  < "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com> wrote in message$ news:sBvC8.2958$L76.136@rwcrnsc53... >ML > It is infinitely MORE likely that ISVs will support an OS that is not tiedF > to an architecture that will hit EOL within 5 years or so. The heavy lifting G > on the port is just about done, stopping it now and driving the stake K > through the heart of a high-margin OS that brings in over $2B in revenue,kD > and precipitates a lot of Services-led sales, would have been IMHO > foolhardy.  F Yes, but......HP's statements on the starting line have not inspired aH measurable increase in confidence in the survival, let alone thriving ofF VMS. We, meaning all of us who are VMS users and fans, know that a fewJ clearly articulated positive statements followed up with even low-cost butK effective marketing of VMS would go a long way toward restoring the vibrant H and thriving VMS market that existed in the 1980's by bringing new ISV'sE on-board, ensuring that there is more choice in 3rd party tools/apps.   I Almost without execption, on a feature-by-feature basis VMS compares moreuF than favorably with any unix variant. Any company that did an *honest*H comparison would be greatly attracted to VMS. But HP has done nothing to? encourage this with their statement and publications this week.e  ? Let's just call it what it is....the dumbing down of computing.>       >eG > Just my opinion, and I am neither highly paid nor do I wear an Armani2 suit.6 >@E Nothing wrong with being highly paid and wearing Armani, or Zegna, or 1 Brioni. I find that they all fit rather well. :-)    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 09 May 2002 17:25:18 +0100mU From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <andrew_nospam.harrison_remove_this@sun#.com> = Subject: Re: Gartner rides again (was Re: HP Product Roadmap)t0 Message-ID: <abe7te$90e$2@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   Bob Ceculski wrote:w  j > Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) wrote in message news:<7O2QDCQqWuZC@eisner.encompasserve.org>... >  >>In article <rdeininger-0805022303410001@1cust119.tnt1.nashua.nh.da.uu.net>, rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger) writes: >> >>J >>>McGuckin is not only a weasel, he's a liar as well.  That's nothing newM >>>from Gartner, who have been caught peddling blatant lies about VMS before.n >>>bK >>>HP didn't say support Alpha servers "for three years".  HP said continuesI >>>to sell new Alpha servers until at least 2006, and continue to support  >>>them until 2011.  l >>> K >>>As it is now 2002, I make it 9 years of support.  Where did McGuckin geta >>>three years.  >>>PK >>Perhaps he used an Excel spreadsheet on a Pentium for the calculation :-)n >>D >>The thing to remember about publishing is the main goal is to sellE >>newspapers (or subscriptions).  If VMS makes a strong advance, theyo< >>can sell more "advice" based on "changes" in the industry. >>: >>People should use whatever computer gear does their job,< >>and nothing less.  That means VMS is not suitable for some: >>tasks and is suitable for others.  It also means Windows! >>is not suitable for some tasks.f >> > & > windoze isn't suitable for any task! >     / What are you using to post your articles from ?h   Regardsm Andrew Harrisont   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 09 May 2002 17:11:45 GMTm1 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com>n= Subject: Re: Gartner rides again (was Re: HP Product Roadmap)o9 Message-ID: <l5yC8.4723$1B.419@rwcrnsc51.ops.asp.att.net>   < "Dave Gudewicz" <david.gudewicz@abbott.com> wrote in message2 news:abe4fc$30b$1@fizban.fizban.pprd.abbott.com...H > Who was the fellow that came from Gartner, went to DEC and started theI > affinity program?  Forgot his name but when he rode off into the sunset  many > said:a  F That would have been Wes Melling. He was the architect of the AffinityL Program, one of the most damnfool exercises in self-destruction that the VMS! Group ever inflicted upon itself.    >gI > "plop plop fizz fizz, oh what a relieve it is"  or something like that.0 >2  K I think that's what Rev. Jim Jones said just before he administered Special  Punch to all and sundry.   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 09 May 2002 17:13:26 GMT 1 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com> = Subject: Re: Gartner rides again (was Re: HP Product Roadmap)r* Message-ID: <W6yC8.5417$UV4.315@rwcrnsc54>  . "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> wrote in message@ news:XyxC8.7700$QOT.6266@news02.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com... >m> > "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com> wrote in message& > news:sBvC8.2958$L76.136@rwcrnsc53... > > I > > It is infinitely MORE likely that ISVs will support an OS that is notg tiedH > > to an architecture that will hit EOL within 5 years or so. The heavy	 > lifting,I > > on the port is just about done, stopping it now and driving the stakeeD > > through the heart of a high-margin OS that brings in over $2B in revenue,F > > and precipitates a lot of Services-led sales, would have been IMHO > > foolhardy. >sH > Yes, but......HP's statements on the starting line have not inspired aJ > measurable increase in confidence in the survival, let alone thriving ofH > VMS. We, meaning all of us who are VMS users and fans, know that a fewL > clearly articulated positive statements followed up with even low-cost butE > effective marketing of VMS would go a long way toward restoring theg vibrantnJ > and thriving VMS market that existed in the 1980's by bringing new ISV'sG > on-board, ensuring that there is more choice in 3rd party tools/apps.o >nK > Almost without execption, on a feature-by-feature basis VMS compares more H > than favorably with any unix variant. Any company that did an *honest*J > comparison would be greatly attracted to VMS. But HP has done nothing toA > encourage this with their statement and publications this week.  > A > Let's just call it what it is....the dumbing down of computing.o   No argument there!   >k >g > > I > > Just my opinion, and I am neither highly paid nor do I wear an Armani  > suit.l > > G > Nothing wrong with being highly paid and wearing Armani, or Zegna, or 3 > Brioni. I find that they all fit rather well. :-)a >r  A Of this I have little doubt. But many times, those who are in theeL prognostication community and wear such garb are exemplars of the old fable, THE EMPEROR's NEW CLOTHES.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 09 May 2002 16:12:48 +0800o) From: Kiasu Surfer <verykiasu@hotpop.com>t# Subject: Help on UCX Small_Buffer?!a8 Message-ID: <rbbkduc4pek15rpk8598mojcbhapak4elk@4ax.com>  J I encountered some problems with my Oracle connection on my Alpha4000 with OpenVMS 7.1.  M From past experience, it seems to be caused by some network setting involving@ small_buffers.  B ================================================================== $ UCX SHOW COMMo  < Local host:      DEC02                  Domain:   xxx.com.yy    Cluster timer:             5@                                  Maximum     Current        Peak@ Interfaces                            20           2           2@ Device_sockets                       300          93         221@ Routes                             65535         644         649@ Services                             200          27          45( Proxies                              500   L Type:        Ethernet   Free     Maximum   Max Bytes     Minimum   Min BytesL Large buffers             20         200      428800          10       21440L Small buffers            150        1500      384000          50       12800( IRPs                      20         200 Non UCX buffers           10  d Remote Terminala   Large buffers:          10   UCBs:                    4   Virtual term:     disabled  B ================================================================== $ UCX SHOW /MEM /                                    MBUF Summary N                       Small_static  Large_static  Small_dynamic  Large_dynamicN  Total buffers                  50            10            850             10N  Free                            0             3             32              9  BusyCN   Data                           0             7              0              1N   Header                         0             0             50              0N   Socket                        13             0             79              0N   Prot. control                  7             0             74              0N   Route                         26             0            615              0N   Socket name                    0             0              0              0N   Socket options                 0             0              0              0N   Fragment reassembly            0             0              0              0N   IP address                     2             0              0              0N  Size of cluster             13056         21696          27248          21808                   N                 Free       Current          Peak          Waits          DropsN  Small Buffers                 868          1269              6              0N  Large Buffers                   8            97              0              0N  IRPs              1            56            91              0              0                       E                     Small clusters  Large clusters    Non UCX buffersJ?  Free                            2             2              0.  B ==================================================================  O I had set the maximum small_buffers to 1500, but I still encountered some waitsr0 for small_buffers, how to resolve this problem??   Regards,  	 Kevin Lai)   **************** ** SPAM BLOCK ** ****************? REPLACE "verykiasu" with "iamverykiasu" at verykiasu@hotpop.coms   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 09 May 2002 08:01:16 -0400 1 From: Michael Austin <maustin@firstdbasource.com>y' Subject: Re: Help on UCX Small_Buffer?! 2 Message-ID: <3CDA650C.B583ED9B@firstdbasource.com>   Kiasu Surfer wrote:o > L > I encountered some problems with my Oracle connection on my Alpha4000 with > OpenVMS 7.1. > O > From past experience, it seems to be caused by some network setting involving  > small_buffers. > D > ================================================================== > $ UCX SHOW COMM  > > > Local host:      DEC02                  Domain:   xxx.com.yy >  > Cluster timer:             5B >                                  Maximum     Current        PeakB > Interfaces                            20           2           2B > Device_sockets                       300          93         221B > Routes                             65535         644         649B > Services                             200          27          45* > Proxies                              500 > N > Type:        Ethernet   Free     Maximum   Max Bytes     Minimum   Min BytesN > Large buffers             20         200      428800          10       21440N > Small buffers            150        1500      384000          50       12800* > IRPs                      20         200 > Non UCX buffers           10 >  > Remote Terminals >   Large buffers:          10 >   UCBs:                    4 >   Virtual term:     disabled > D > ================================================================== > $ UCX SHOW /MEMe1 >                                    MBUF SummaryaP >                       Small_static  Large_static  Small_dynamic  Large_dynamicP >  Total buffers                  50            10            850             10P >  Free                            0             3             32              9 >  BusyBP >   Data                           0             7              0              1P >   Header                         0             0             50              0P >   Socket                        13             0             79              0P >   Prot. control                  7             0             74              0P >   Route                         26             0            615              0P >   Socket name                    0             0              0              0P >   Socket options                 0             0              0              0P >   Fragment reassembly            0             0              0              0P >   IP address                     2             0              0              0P >  Size of cluster             13056         21696          27248          21808 > P >                 Free       Current          Peak          Waits          DropsP >  Small Buffers                 868          1269              6              0P >  Large Buffers                   8            97              0              0P >  IRPs              1            56            91              0              0 > G >                     Small clusters  Large clusters    Non UCX buffers A >  Free                            2             2              0h > D > ================================================================== > Q > I had set the maximum small_buffers to 1500, but I still encountered some waitsw2 > for small_buffers, how to resolve this problem?? > 
 > Regards, >  > Kevin Lait >  > **************** > ** SPAM BLOCK ** > ****************A > REPLACE "verykiasu" with "iamverykiasu" at verykiasu@hotpop.comg   what version UCX/TCPIP?.   -- - Regards,  7 Michael Austin            Registered Linux User #261163r7 First DBA Source, Inc.    http://www.firstdbasource.com: Sr. Consultant 704-947-1089 (Office)o 704-236-4377 (Mobile)-   ------------------------------   Date: 9 May 02 08:51:46 +0200l) From: p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture)sN Subject: Re: How to rotate Apache/CSWS log files under VMS, without a restart?) Message-ID: <vp2tcsBUMi+J@elias.decus.ch>h  h In article <d7791aa1.0205061347.282e8aa4@posting.google.com>, bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski) writes:   [snip] > H > just because something is supported doesn't make it ok (i.e. windoze).K > You made a big mistake, oh well, your loss ... have fun w/unix conf land.r  # Do me a favour and visit this link:r  C http://www.openvms.compaq.com/openvms/products/ips/apache/csws.htmls  D In case you still don't get it, here's the quote I want you to read:  ? "Version 1.2 is based on Apache 1.3.20 and contains several new0E features, including mod_proxy, mod_rewrite, clusterwide shared memoryuD on OpenVMS Galaxy system clusters, and a new optional kit, CSWS_PHP.@ Version 1.1-1 corrects problems found in previous releases. ThisF product is licensed as part of the OpenVMS operating system license. A" separate license is not required."  E Get that? It is available to anyone with a VMS license, and is Galaxyr aware.  H "Supported by OpenVMS Engineering" is a totally different kettle of fish from Windows support.   c __
 Paul Sture Switzerlandh   ------------------------------   Date: 9 May 2002 12:31:25 -0000b4 From: Doc.Cypher <Use-Author-Address-Header@[127.1]>+ Subject: Re: HP is taking over really fast! 5 Message-ID: <20020509123125.1220.qmail@gacracker.org>l  K On Tue, 07 May 2002, "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> wrote: E >Yes.  Except in some cases where there are overlapping names in botheM >companies, which is always problematic.  You can send me mail at both hp andu >compaq - both will reach me.b  D But I see that you still use a DEC email address here. Bypassing the corporate servers? :-)     Doc. -- t6 The bigger the humbug, the better people will like it.K ~ Phineas Taylor Barnum.                             https://vmsbox.cjb.netc   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 09 May 2002 17:18:48 GMTi5 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com>t+ Subject: Re: HP is taking over really fast!o9 Message-ID: <YbyC8.21$n17.436239@cacnews.cac.cpqcorp.net>t  G Nope.  I list my return address here as a VMS account, so that spammerseL don't use the mail address where I do most of my actual corespondence.  Nice; virus filter, and it's easy to spot the crap to be deleted.t      H Doc.Cypher wrote in message <20020509123125.1220.qmail@gacracker.org>...L >On Tue, 07 May 2002, "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> wrote:F >>Yes.  Except in some cases where there are overlapping names in bothJ >>companies, which is always problematic.  You can send me mail at both hp ando >>compaq - both will reach me. >nE >But I see that you still use a DEC email address here. Bypassing theM >corporate servers? :-)  >e >t >Doc.s >-- 7 >The bigger the humbug, the better people will like it. L >~ Phineas Taylor Barnum.                             https://vmsbox.cjb.net   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 09 May 2002 09:39:55 +0100a From: Roy Omond <Roy@Omond.net>e Subject: Re: HP Product Roadmapt) Message-ID: <3CDA35DB.63F2C2CA@Omond.net>e   David Mathog wrote:.   > [...big snip...]   > It's oddly familiar...   >h > Let Capellas be President.) > Move features from this OS to that one.tC > Say the wrong things, or say nothing, and piss off the customers.f& > Yank profits from VMS and burn them.2 > Tie the company's enterprise future to Godotium. > Advertising?  What's that?  8 Yep, got to agree with David on this.  So very very sad.  > "Godotium" !  I like it :-)  Is this the first mention of it ? Also, how is it pronounced ?  	 Roy Omondi Blue Bubble Ltd.   ------------------------------   Date: 9 May 2002 12:32:04 GMTi1 From: bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)v Subject: Re: HP Product Roadmaph, Message-ID: <abdq84$1v84$1@info.cs.uofs.edu>  ) In article <3CD9EB9B.3BA764F3@rdrop.com>, (  Dean Woodward <deanw@rdrop.com> writes: |> Bob Marcan wrote: |> > JF Mezei wrote:T |> > > VMS is on the exact same path as Tru64.  The port to IA64 is a nice make-workR |> > > project funded by Intel, so HP has no reason to cut it. But it doesn't mean |> > a, |> > Maybe Intel need it to run the FAB? :-) |> yH |> Ooh- Zing!  Maybe in the future Intel will be happy to advertise thatG |> fact, since it'll be running on one of their own chips rather than ad |> competitor's. ;-)  D What competitor??  The term competitor would seem to imply that theyD in some way actually try to compete.  That wasn't true before and it% certainly isn't true since last June..   bill   -- aJ Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 9 May 2002 09:22:16 -05001 From: "Dave Gudewicz" <david.gudewicz@abbott.com>e Subject: Re: HP Product Roadmapt8 Message-ID: <abe0r4$2d1$1@fizban.fizban.pprd.abbott.com>  J So far, I did get replies from PB, MK and SS.  Might I suggest others here do same.   -- Dave...>  6 If you pick up a starving dog and make him prosperous,, he will not bite you.  This is the principle# difference between a dog and a man.  -----Mark Twain   : "Bob Koehler" <koehler@encompasserve.org> wrote in message- news:ZZoLOGpZpeAn@eisner.encompasserve.org...sJ > In article <abbgs6$i0m$1@fizban.fizban.pprd.abbott.com>, "Dave Gudewicz"# <david.gudewicz@abbott.com> writes:.H > > And just for yukes, I asked Michael Capellas and Peter Blackmore the2 > > following question about the roadmap document. > >aE > > Why was OpenVMS mentioned under the UNIX heading and not its own?l > >  >eH >    These are PC comanies.  Just like my Windows/IP-network admin, theyG >    figure if it isn't WIndows it must be UNIX.  He's got my DECserver  >    200 down as running UNIX. >a   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 09 May 2002 08:30:11 -0700a' From: David Mathog <mathog@caltech.edu>a Subject: Re: HP Product Roadmap + Message-ID: <3CDA9603.71A9FE11@caltech.edu>a   Roy Omond wrote:@ > "Godotium" !  I like it :-)  Is this the first mention of it ?  6 Well, I had joked in an earlier post that:  'The first3 itanium which will appear in functioning systems isd< codenamed "Godot"', but this was my first use of "Godotium".  0 Google didn't find any other hits on "Godotium".   > Also, how is it pronounced ?  / god - oh - ee - um   (The T is silent in Godot)m  $ Here is a synopsis of that play from7   http://www.brothersjudd.com/webpage/nobelprizetxt.htmo* (which is worth a visit in its own right):  .   Two tramps, Vladimir and Estragon, wait by a+   tree for two days, expecting the imminente0   appearance of Godot.  Instead they are visited/   by a master and slave, Pozzo and Lucky, and a1,   boy who  brought them a message that Godot-   will soon be there. The curtain falls.  Thea   crowd hisses.P  - Amusing equating the cast of HPQ to the play.@0 Were V & E Compaq/HP or Carly/Curly?  The master4 could only be Bill Gates but who is his slave Lucky?* There are so many candidates - maybe Lucky. represents all of them, a sort of "everyslave"0 for the entire PC industry.  But who's the boy? . The Gartner Group maybe?   Anyway, the curtain/ already fell for Compaq and people were hissingu! at the Godotium long before that.      Regards,   David Mathog mathog@caltech.edu   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 09 May 2002 16:33:26 GMTe1 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com>  Subject: Re: HP Product Roadmapl* Message-ID: <qxxC8.5251$UV4.230@rwcrnsc54>  2 "Alan Greig" <a.greig@virgin.net> wrote in message# news:abamb101tfa@drn.newsguy.com...r: > In article <3CD89B09.30202@tsoft-inc.com>, David says... > >oI > >Am I being picky?  Yes, definitely.  But that slight difference speakso ratherL > >loudly.  To restate, the way it appeared, VMS is just another item in the UnixG > >catagory.  I don't feel comfortable with people who see it that way.i >nF > Especially when said "Unix" category is scheduled for "evisceration" >VJ Don't blame me, I'm only the newsletter writer! ;-}. I dunno who if anyoneJ HPQ hired to do the message testing, but it sure as hell was not me. Had I< had input to the collateral it would look a lot different...   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 09 May 2002 16:39:28 GMTP1 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com>t Subject: Re: HP Product Roadmapk* Message-ID: <4DxC8.3303$L76.120@rwcrnsc53>  < "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com> wrote in message5 news:1kZB8.95042$WV1.28883107@typhoon.ne.ipsvc.net...  > < > "Stuart, Ed" <Ed.Stuart@austinenergy.com> wrote in message >hL news:92EFB80E551BD511B39500D0B7B0CDCC0642C3D7@ohms.electric.ci.austin.tx.us. > ..+ > > The HP Product Roadmap can be found at:o8 > > http://www.hp.com/hpinfo/newsroom/press/07may02b.htm > >m3 > > There is one and only one reference to OpenVMS.l > = > Yep. No change to committed roadmap, products, or IPF port.  >eL > Whether HPQ plans to get stabilize the base and (try to) minimize customerK > and ISV attrition, or whether the firm plans to try to grow the business,b > remains to be seen.  >o  L Perhaps some positively-worded (at this point NOBODY in HPQ wants to receiveH any more bashing, deserved or not) suggestions and statements of support might help. They couldn't hurt.=  J Wouldn't hurt to highlight Sue S as a valuable asset to the VMS franchise,	 either...    ------------------------------    Date: 10 May 2002 00:34:55 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com> Subject: Re: HP Product Roadmap - Message-ID: <87vg9xp9e8.fsf@prep.synonet.com>   ) "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@hp.com> writes:   0 > >>> Maybe Intel need it to run the FAB? :-)<<<   > > As well as a number of other biig CPU chip manufacturers ...  @ No here's an interesting point. If intel want tin for a NEW fab,B will they be forced to go the HPPA way? Will other customer, large or small be treated the same?    -- t< Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.5@                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 09 May 2002 17:25:19 GMT=1 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com>  Subject: Re: HP Product Roadmap 9 Message-ID: <3iyC8.4766$1B.219@rwcrnsc51.ops.asp.att.net>t  . "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> wrote in message> news:4m8C8.117$QOT.113@news02.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com...
 > Phillip, >  > This is where you are wrong. > 
 > HP says:H > "Decision: HP will continue with the previously published roadmaps for bothF > PA-RISC and AlphaServer systems. HP will continue development of the PA-8800 K > and PA-8900 processors, as well as the EV7 and EV79 Alpha processors. The J > roles of these two families will be quite different. The PA-RISC serversE > will be targeted at the PA-RISC installed base and all new business K > opportunities. AlphaServer systems will be primarily focused on the Alpha ; > installed base and high-performance technical computing."  > F > The important statement here is that PA-RISC will be targeted at the PA-RISC K > installed base and **ALL** new business opportunities. What this means in  a F > practical sense is that HP is  **NOT** looking to grow the VMS base. >  >1I > Why do I say that?  Because all HP's new business will be pushed to use G > PA-RISC, which means unix. It means that all HP's sales and marketing H > efforts with new customers will be towards pushing unix . Let's assume thatK > the sales force is 50/50 between Compaq and HP people. Today, very few of0J > the Compaq people know much about VMS, and even fewer HP ones know about it. I > Add to this the emphasis on directing new customer business to PA-RISC,  and I > what are you left with?  I'll bet you 100 Euros that there will be some  sortI > of HP-internal memo from sales management that surfaces sometime in the  nextF > 90-120 days that says 'VMS is NOT to be promoted..that new customersE > inquiring about it should be steered to unix instead', or something) similar*
 > to this. >SK > Which means that HP will in effect be actively discouraging any expansionr ofI > the VMS install base outside of existing customers and those *very* few0 HPTC/ > environments where nothing but Alpha will do.o >e  G It may be early enough in the cycle to convince HPQ of the error in its3H ways. Remember, we are no longer dealing with the Usual Compaq Suspects.   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 9 May 2002 13:49:07 -0400; From: "Brian Tillman" <tillman_brian@notnoone.notnohow.com>w Subject: Re: HP Product Roadmapu$ Message-ID: <3cdab690$1@news.si.com>  ? >"Godotium" !  I like it :-)  Is this the first mention of it ?  >Also, how is it pronounced ?   & Godot more or less rhymes with baudot. -- iA Brian Tillman                   Internet: tillman_brian at si.comCA Smiths Aerospace                          tillman at swdev.si.com = 3290 Patterson Ave. SE, MS      Addresses modified to prevent < Grand Rapids, MI 49512-1991     SPAM.  Replace "at" with "@"8        This opinion doesn't represent that of my company   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 09 May 2002 17:21:28 GMT 1 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com>x, Subject: Re: HP Roadmap: OpenVMS, Tru64 safe9 Message-ID: <seyC8.4749$1B.333@rwcrnsc51.ops.asp.att.net>   F "Phillip Helbig" <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> wrote in message5 news:01KHHQXJQZFM8Y8ZDE@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com... I > > Decision: HP will continue with the previously published roadmaps for I > > both PA-RISC and AlphaServer systems. HP will continue development of I > > the PA-8800 and PA-8900 processors, as well as the EV7 and EV79 Alpha== > > processors. The roles of these two families will be quite B > > different. The PA-RISC servers will be targeted at the PA-RISCJ > > installed base and all new business opportunities. AlphaServer systems= > > will be primarily focused on the Alpha installed base and ) > > high-performance technical computing.  > H > The big question is, what about Itanium servers?  ASSUMING all productE > lines will be consolidated on Itanium in the near future, the above F > makes perfect sense and does not NECESSARILY bode badly for VMS.  ItH > WOULD be silly to sell ALPHA to new customers, only to migrate them to > Itanium later.  H Would it, though? Let's say you need an enterprise system or HPTC systemE NOW, not at such time that IPF is an acceptable substitute for Alpha.  Whatcha gonna do???    ------------------------------   Date: 9 May 2002 06:01:38 -0700 + From: toddnelson_@hotmail.com (Todd Nelson)r; Subject: Invalid Directory File Sequence - Best way to fix? = Message-ID: <abeeb4de.0205090501.63b38348@posting.google.com>0  
 Hello all.  I I ran $analyze disk_structure /repair /confirm on one of the disks on our J Alpha 4000 and got the following message.  I chose not to repair the errorF within this context - I would like to know more about what is going to happen if I do, etc.   The error is as follows:H -ANALDISK-I-BAD_DIRFIDSEQ, invalid file sequence number in directory filF %ANALDISK-W-DIRNAME, directory file [OFFICE]THERAPY.DIR;2 is not named '.DIR;1'  ! $dir [.office]therapy.dir returnse  I THERAPY.DIR;2                13   9-JUN-2001 09:59:21.67  [(UIC REMOVED)] I THERAPY.DIR;1                25   9-JUN-2001 09:57:48.27  [(UIC REMOVED)]=  H When I do $set def [.THERAPY], I get into a directory and can see files,E etc.  However, I do not know if I am in version 1 or version 2 of theo1 directory.  I would guess that I am in version 2.t  J What is the best/safest way to correct this problem while making sure thatJ if there are indeed files in the first version of the directory, that I do not lose them.   Thanks,    Todd.u  & toddnelson (at) lehighcounty (dot) org   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 09 May 2002 14:07:43 +0100a( From: Martyn <mpattKNICKERS@bigfoot.com>? Subject: Re: Invalid Directory File Sequence - Best way to fix?1* Message-ID: <3CDA749F.6060204@bigfoot.com>   Todd Nelson wrote:   >Hello all.e >aJ >I ran $analyze disk_structure /repair /confirm on one of the disks on ourK >Alpha 4000 and got the following message.  I chose not to repair the erroroG >within this context - I would like to know more about what is going tou >happen if I do, etc.e >o >The error is as follows:oI >-ANALDISK-I-BAD_DIRFIDSEQ, invalid file sequence number in directory fil G >%ANALDISK-W-DIRNAME, directory file [OFFICE]THERAPY.DIR;2 is not nameda	 >'.DIR;1'm >r" >$dir [.office]therapy.dir returns > J >THERAPY.DIR;2                13   9-JUN-2001 09:59:21.67  [(UIC REMOVED)]J >THERAPY.DIR;1                25   9-JUN-2001 09:57:48.27  [(UIC REMOVED)] >rI >When I do $set def [.THERAPY], I get into a directory and can see files,tF >etc.  However, I do not know if I am in version 1 or version 2 of the2 >directory.  I would guess that I am in version 2. >sK >What is the best/safest way to correct this problem while making sure thatuK >if there are indeed files in the first version of the directory, that I dox >not lose them.p >t >Thanks, >  >Todd. >"' >toddnelson (at) lehighcounty (dot) orgr >W  % IRRC you're getting the ;1 directory.t  E Try doing a DUMP/DIR on each file should show you what's in each one.0   You could also do a<  . $RENAME/LOG THERAPY.DIR;2 SECOND_THERAPY.DIR;1   and do a   $DIR [.SECOND_THERAPY]    to get at it's contents.a     -- k, Remove KNICKERS before replying by Email ;-)   ------------------------------   Date: 9 May 02 09:47:44 +0200a) From: p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture)t8 Subject: Re: Itanium 2 hits ... Itanium 3 will be Alpha!) Message-ID: <0GHEc7x3c8+P@elias.decus.ch>l   In article <ab8rfj$lf3$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <andrew_nospam.harrison_remove_this@sun#.com> writes: >  >  > Terry C. Shannon wrote:e > 9 >> "Paul Sture" <p_sture@elias.decus.ch> wrote in messages& >> news:0FQSb6NeQY8Z@elias.decus.ch... >> <deletiaL >> eE >>>>>I really don't want to believe that you're that gullible. If yout >>>>>d >> believedj >> RL >>>>>this was at all meant seriously I've got a bridge here I'd like to sell	 >>>>>you.n >>>>>  >>>>>I >>>>@ >>>>And I have a little 100 bedroom mansion called Buck house toB >>>>go with the bridge, now if I could only get Queeny to move out >>>>so that Bob can move in. >>>>@ >>>>There are also some guys in France who would like to talk to2 >>>>Bob about the Eifel tower (this was real con). >>>> >>>>% >>>And I'm selling him London Bridge.o >>>c >> rL >> I don't think so. IIRC the city fathers of Lake Havasu City, Arizona, USAN >> bought that bridge over 30 years ago. The "bridge over water that shouldn'tJ >> be there" was still standing when I flew over it a couple of weeks ago. >> d >>   >  > ? > We have a new London Bridge built to replace the old one frome> > now on called London Bridge 95. Now if we could interest Bob > in buying both.  > @ > Incedentally the story was that Lake Havasu City bought LondonC > Bridge thinking it was Tower Bridge (much more interesting bridge & > if you are into that sort of thing). > J Which is exactly why I picked London Bridge as an offer. It somehow seemed highly appropriate :-)  H For an explanation of some misconceptions surrounding London Bridge, see) http://midtown.net/dragonwing/col9802.htmn __
 Paul Sture Switzerland    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 09 May 2002 17:39:09 +0100 U From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <andrew_nospam.harrison_remove_this@sun#.com>g8 Subject: Re: Itanium 2 hits ... Itanium 3 will be Alpha!0 Message-ID: <abe8nd$978$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   Paul Sture wrote:n   > In article <ab8rfj$lf3$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <andrew_nospam.harrison_remove_this@sun#.com> writes: >  >> >>Terry C. Shannon wrote:  >> >>9 >>>"Paul Sture" <p_sture@elias.decus.ch> wrote in messagen& >>>news:0FQSb6NeQY8Z@elias.decus.ch... >>>aL >>>I don't think so. IIRC the city fathers of Lake Havasu City, Arizona, USAN >>>bought that bridge over 30 years ago. The "bridge over water that shouldn'tJ >>>be there" was still standing when I flew over it a couple of weeks ago. >>>o >>>  >>>  >>? >>We have a new London Bridge built to replace the old one fromi> >>now on called London Bridge 95. Now if we could interest Bob >>in buying both.l >>@ >>Incedentally the story was that Lake Havasu City bought LondonC >>Bridge thinking it was Tower Bridge (much more interesting bridgea& >>if you are into that sort of thing). >> >>L > Which is exactly why I picked London Bridge as an offer. It somehow seemed > highly appropriate :-)    C Now I am confused, were we selling Buck house and the London Bridgen= in Lake Havasu City, or Buck and the London Bridge in London.y  C If its the one in london the I have changed my mind, you can't selll4 it because I have to walk over it 3 days a week :):)   regardsy Andrew Harrison5   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 09 May 2002 09:21:46 +0200dB From: Arne =?iso-8859-1?Q?Vajh=F8j?= <arne.vajhoej@mail.danbbs.dk> Subject: JBoss on VMS . Message-ID: <3CDA238A.CB22E2D8@mail.danbbs.dk>   I got JBoss working on VMS !   The recipe is:   - JDK 1.3.1-2 with FastVMm   - latest ACRTL patch   - ODS-5 disk@   - download and unpack standard JBoss 2.4.4 kit (I used the one     bundled with Tomcat 4.0.1)5   - fix the startup scripts (mine are attached below)A  : And it just worked. I was able to take 2 EAR's that I have5 tested on JBoss on NT 4.0 and copy them to the deployd directory and they just worked.n  	 Problems:k   - startup is slowa.   - JSP's is slow the first time (compilation)#   - the shutdown hook does not work 2 none of those are critical for "production" usage.  
 Other things:o7   - it uses a lot of CPU and memory ressource, but that      is no surprise4   - VMS databases with JDBC drivers freely available     are not that commonr   Arne  ) (the .DAT files are just one single line)-  6 DISK1X:[jboss_tomcat.JBOSS.BIN]run_with_catalina.com;1  # $ java "-V" jboss_with_catalina.dath $ exit  * DISK1X:[jboss_tomcat.JBOSS.BIN]start.com;1   $ set process/parse=extended3 $ @sys$common:[java$131.com]java$131_setup.com fastI $ @run_with_catalina $ exit  * DISK1X:[jboss_tomcat.JBOSS.BIN]jboss.dat;1   -serverrH -Djavax.xml.parsers.DocumentBuilderFactory=org.apache.crimson.jaxp.Docum entBuilderFactoryImpls: -Djavax.xml.parsers.SAXParserFactory=org.apache.crimson.ja= xp.SAXParserFactoryImpl -classpath run.jar:../lib/crimson.jar  org.jboss.Main  8 DISK1X:[jboss_tomcat.JBOSS.BIN]jboss_with_catalina.dat;1   -serverwH -Djavax.xml.parsers.DocumentBuilderFactory=org.apache.crimson.jaxp.Docum entBuilderFactoryImpl : -Djavax.xml.parsers.SAXParserFactory=org.apache.crimson.ja" xp.SAXParserFactoryImpl -classpath- /sys$common/java$131/lib/tools.jar:run.jar:..a( /lib/crimson.jar org.jboss.Main catalina   ------------------------------   Date: 9 May 02 09:17:54 +0200e) From: p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture)PA Subject: Re: MacOS/X is the leading Unix (was "Itanium Troubles")a) Message-ID: <UQoyjQWUe8aX@elias.decus.ch>y  c In article <0duEaQIQgKjG@eisner.encompasserve.org>, koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes:oW > In article <H+eOtOM5D6tC@elias.decus.ch>, p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture) writes:t > J >> There's a flaw to this argument about MacOS/X having the leading share,L >> since OS/X does not come installed with a new machine. New Macs _do_ comeI >> with an OS/X CD, but it is _not_ factory installed. That may of course2  >> vary by country and supplier. > L >    All the Macs I've bought since last summer came with factory installed F >    OS X.  For some strange reason Apple is still setting the defaultF >    boot to OS 9, but changing the boot is not doing an installation. >   M Much to my dismay, I realise I was talking rot. In my defense, the literatureuO was, ahem, sparse. More to the point the introductory screens as I fed in the 3aM CDs to get it working after first switch on led me to believe that I then hadb8 to install OS X as an extra step, if I wished to use it.  O Do the US versions ask one to feed 3 CDs at first switch on? Mine did, at leastyO because I had to choose between French and German versions (2 different sets ofeN CDs). The introductory screens also told me that in order to get multi-lingualN support, I needed to install OS X. The latter took at least a couple of hours,O and at one point was busy doing stuff with Chinese fonts and language. I didn't:L time it, because I got terribly bored and wandered off to do something else.  J My head hurts with this thing. I'm obviously too old to understand what isO "intuitive". I just wanna find a good book or two on the subject, and it p*sses # me off that I should need to do so.1  K (Oh, and things were complicated during the installation because it really,PK really, REALLY REALLY REALLY wanted me to connect to the Internet there and/P then, and presumably leave traces of myself who knows where, to the extent I had# to hit the rest button to get out.)o  O In summary, nice piece of hardware. Not impressed by the hype surrounding OS X.)M Visiting www.apple.com keeps telling me how great OS X is rather than tellingo me how to use it, for example. __
 Paul Sture Switzerlandp   ------------------------------   Date: 9 May 2002 08:02:42 -0500o- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)aA Subject: Re: MacOS/X is the leading Unix (was "Itanium Troubles")r3 Message-ID: <6OCC$uVdRc6I@eisner.encompasserve.org>r  U In article <UQoyjQWUe8aX@elias.decus.ch>, p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture) writes:0  ? > Do the US versions ask one to feed 3 CDs at first switch on? d       Mine just powered on and ran.   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 09 May 2002 13:36:27 GMT & From: John Reagan <john.reagan@hp.com>A Subject: Re: MacOS/X is the leading Unix (was "Itanium Troubles")u% Message-ID: <3CDA7A23.3020508@hp.com>i   Bob Koehler wrote:W > In article <UQoyjQWUe8aX@elias.decus.ch>, p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture) writes:a >  > ? >>Do the US versions ask one to feed 3 CDs at first switch on?   >  > " >    Mine just powered on and ran. >   @ Same here.  With my iMac at home, I just plugged in the AC, the I keyboard, the mouse, pushed the power button and up came 10.1.something. .H   It did start asking about how I want to connect to the Internet, if I : wanted to find an ISP, etc., but you can skip that wizard.   --   John ReaganT' Compaq Pascal/{A|I}MACRO Project Leader    ------------------------------    Date: 10 May 2002 00:14:37 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>A Subject: Re: MacOS/X is the leading Unix (was "Itanium Troubles")s- Message-ID: <87znz9pac2.fsf@prep.synonet.com>s  = "Atlant G. Schmidt" <Atlant.Schmidt@YouKnowWhere.com> writes:n  C > Me, I'd like to see Apple port it to IBMs Power4 multiprocessors,l? > say a P690 (seeing as to how PowerPC is upwards-compatible to E > Power). Now *THAT* would be one butt-kicking Mac! Photoshop filters B > finished before you even click the "OK" button. Think anyone can7 > justify a several-hundred- thousand-dollar Mac??? :-)   9 The movie peple would take several semi loads, yesterday.e  7 Remind me, what sort of Mac did they use for Titanic...e" (::slap::spell it right::slap:: :) -- .< Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.n@                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 09 May 2002 09:47:57 +0100a From: Roy Omond <Roy@Omond.net>h' Subject: Re: Observing HSx performancesi) Message-ID: <3CDA37BE.8C9BD4E8@Omond.net>s   Roose Chua wrote:    > Hi!o >.G > I would be doing some capacity planning on our systems and aside fromeF > the regular CPU/memory utilizations, I would like to see the currentF > performance of our HSx controllers. Could someone recommend the bestF > way I could get some data on this? We have some Alpha 1200 and GS60s) > with OpenVMS 7.2 and PSDC/PSPA on them.e  = Best way I know of is to "watch" the performance using VTDPY.d  	 Roy Omonds Blue Bubble Ltd.   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 9 May 2002 09:13:51 -05001 From: "Dave Gudewicz" <david.gudewicz@abbott.com>bD Subject: Re: Only one brief mention of OpenVMS on the HP whitesheet?8 Message-ID: <abe0bb$2a2$1@fizban.fizban.pprd.abbott.com>  J I noticed this too and sent emails to:  Michael Capellas, Peter Blackmore,L Rich Marcello, Mark Gorham and Scott Stallard.  So far, got replies from PB,
 MG and SS.  + I suggest others do same; first.last@hp.com-  . I doubt any of the above keep up with this ng.   -- Dave...   6 If you pick up a starving dog and make him prosperous,, he will not bite you.  This is the principle# difference between a dog and a man.  -----Mark Twain   8 "Joe the Aroma" <schizam2001@yahoo.com> wrote in message7 news:2021ed07.0205081604.2159d59d@posting.google.com...r > Grrrr....    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 09 May 2002 16:24:24 GMT # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>sD Subject: Re: Only one brief mention of OpenVMS on the HP whitesheet?I Message-ID: <YoxC8.26094$GLp1.20642@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>    So, what did they have to say?      < "Dave Gudewicz" <david.gudewicz@abbott.com> wrote in message2 news:abe0bb$2a2$1@fizban.fizban.pprd.abbott.com...L > I noticed this too and sent emails to:  Michael Capellas, Peter Blackmore,J > Rich Marcello, Mark Gorham and Scott Stallard.  So far, got replies from PB,d > MG and SS. >m- > I suggest others do same; first.last@hp.comd >d0 > I doubt any of the above keep up with this ng. >e > --	 > Dave...s >p8 > If you pick up a starving dog and make him prosperous,. > he will not bite you.  This is the principle% > difference between a dog and a man.l > -----Mark Twain7 >l: > "Joe the Aroma" <schizam2001@yahoo.com> wrote in message9 > news:2021ed07.0205081604.2159d59d@posting.google.com...e
 > > Grrrr....C >  >n   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 09 May 2002 08:54:53 +0200i- From: Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@Free.fr>b Subject: Re: Powered by HP' Message-ID: <3CDA1D3D.399E3E55@Free.fr>u  K I wonder if they will repaint all buildings walls on which there are COMPAQoN signs. The COMPAQ sign was more or less as wide as the DIGITAL one. But the HPG sign is definitely smaller. This change will not be nice looking on theP, buildings if they do not paint the walls :-)   D.   JF Mezei wrote:  > Q > Went on to Yahoo. They used to have a "powered by Compaq" logon on their pages.m" > It now sports a "powered by HP". >  > I guess HP won them back :-) > K > HP sure didn't waste time with these. I wonder how long ago HP would havedL > gotten in touch with all those web sites that have the "powered by compaq"L > logo to prepare them with the new logo and tell themn to wait for a signal > when they can switch thema   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 9 May 2002 08:49:51 -0400( From: "Mike Foley" <mike-spam@yelof.com> Subject: Re: Powered by HP/ Message-ID: <udks3g9srj3pd1@corp.supernews.com>b  J     I drove past MRO yesterday and the sign that said Compaq (nee Digital)H     was replaced with a white sign with a blue HP logo. Visible from Rt. 495S     mike  : "Didier Morandi" <Didier.Morandi@Free.fr> wrote in message! news:3CDA1D3D.399E3E55@Free.fr... F > I wonder if they will repaint all buildings walls on which there are COMPAQI > signs. The COMPAQ sign was more or less as wide as the DIGITAL one. But  the HPI > sign is definitely smaller. This change will not be nice looking on thee. > buildings if they do not paint the walls :-) >2 > D. >  > JF Mezei wrote:  > > L > > Went on to Yahoo. They used to have a "powered by Compaq" logon on their pages.$ > > It now sports a "powered by HP". > >   > > I guess HP won them back :-) > >tH > > HP sure didn't waste time with these. I wonder how long ago HP would haveF > > gotten in touch with all those web sites that have the "powered by compaq"0G > > logo to prepare them with the new logo and tell themn to wait for ao signal > > when they can switch theme   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 9 May 2002 08:38:11 -05001 From: "Dave Gudewicz" <david.gudewicz@abbott.com>o Subject: Re: Powered by HP8 Message-ID: <abdvke$26u$1@fizban.fizban.pprd.abbott.com>  K Interesting.  It took much longer to get the Chicagoland signs changed fromtL DIGITAL to COMPAQ a few years back.  But they (hp) did have over 8 months to prepare for this.I   -- Dave...i  6 If you pick up a starving dog and make him prosperous,, he will not bite you.  This is the principle# difference between a dog and a man.e -----Mark Twainr  3 "Mike Foley" <mike-spam@yelof.com> wrote in message9) news:udks3g9srj3pd1@corp.supernews.com...  > L >     I drove past MRO yesterday and the sign that said Compaq (nee Digital)J >     was replaced with a white sign with a blue HP logo. Visible from Rt. > 495S >  >I > mike >i< > "Didier Morandi" <Didier.Morandi@Free.fr> wrote in message# > news:3CDA1D3D.399E3E55@Free.fr.../H > > I wonder if they will repaint all buildings walls on which there are > COMPAQK > > signs. The COMPAQ sign was more or less as wide as the DIGITAL one. ButT > the HPK > > sign is definitely smaller. This change will not be nice looking on thet0 > > buildings if they do not paint the walls :-) > >f > > D. > >o > > JF Mezei wrote:o > > > H > > > Went on to Yahoo. They used to have a "powered by Compaq" logon on theira > pages.& > > > It now sports a "powered by HP". > > > " > > > I guess HP won them back :-) > > >yJ > > > HP sure didn't waste time with these. I wonder how long ago HP would > haveH > > > gotten in touch with all those web sites that have the "powered by	 > compaq"lI > > > logo to prepare them with the new logo and tell themn to wait for aj > signal > > > when they can switch thems >S >K   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 9 May 2002 10:59:54 -0400% From: "John Vottero" <John@mvpsi.com>a Subject: Re: Powered by HP/ Message-ID: <udl3nb9389r829@news.supernews.com>i  H It will be interesting to see what the Compaq sponsored Williams F1 carsI look like this weekend.  Of course, they're doing much better than the HPt9 sponsored Jordan team so maybe they'll stick with Compaq.l    : "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message& news:3CDA078D.9B2749FC@videotron.ca...J > Went on to Yahoo. They used to have a "powered by Compaq" logon on their pages." > It now sports a "powered by HP". >m > I guess HP won them back :-) >tK > HP sure didn't waste time with these. I wonder how long ago HP would havedL > gotten in touch with all those web sites that have the "powered by compaq"L > logo to prepare them with the new logo and tell themn to wait for a signal > when they can switch theme   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 09 May 2002 15:20:45 GMTo0 From: prune@ZAnkh-Morpork.mv.com (Paul Winalski) Subject: Re: Powered by HP9 Message-ID: <3cda9442.2320026421@proxy.news.easynews.com>5  B On Thu, 9 May 2002 10:59:54 -0400, "John Vottero" <John@mvpsi.com> wrote:  I >It will be interesting to see what the Compaq sponsored Williams F1 carsiJ >look like this weekend.  Of course, they're doing much better than the HP: >sponsored Jordan team so maybe they'll stick with Compaq.  A Even more interesting is whether HPQ will continue to sponsor twoo/ F1 teams, and if not, which one will they drop?   
 ---------- Remove 'Z' to reply by email._   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 09 May 2002 15:20:03 GMT,1 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com>  Subject: Re: Powered by HP: Message-ID: <DswC8.5417$Po6.299@rwcrnsc52.ops.asp.att.net>  < "Dave Gudewicz" <david.gudewicz@abbott.com> wrote in message2 news:abdvke$26u$1@fizban.fizban.pprd.abbott.com...H > Interesting.  It took much longer to get the Chicagoland signs changed fromK > DIGITAL to COMPAQ a few years back.  But they (hp) did have over 8 monthsn to > prepare for this.a  I Compaq had plenty of time to prepare for the Compaq-tion, too. Looks likeiK HPQ has its stuff together far better than Eckhard's Army did several yearss ago.  I So apparently Curly and Carly profited from prior gaffes. That is IMHO ane auspicious sign!   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 09 May 2002 09:13:42 -0700 + From: "Barry Treahy, Jr." <Treahy@mmaz.com>B Subject: Re: Powered by HP' Message-ID: <3CDAA036.3040806@mmaz.com>g   JF Mezei wrote:l  P >Went on to Yahoo. They used to have a "powered by Compaq" logon on their pages.! >It now sports a "powered by HP".k >  >I guess HP won them back :-)i >rJ >HP sure didn't waste time with these. I wonder how long ago HP would haveK >gotten in touch with all those web sites that have the "powered by compaq"pK >logo to prepare them with the new logo and tell themn to wait for a signaln >when they can switch them >oE I wonder how many of the original Compaq customers (ie. pre-Digital) eG that were and are 'brand' loyal to Compaq will be effected much in the iG same way that the brand-loyal Digital folks were?  Their loss of brand -F identity, products, sales and service contacts, technical support and 6 web site support for current and older technologies...  G Though I didn't, I would have to presume that folks loved working with BG Compaq and chose Compaq over HP for their own list of reasons, it will  I be interesting to see how that stuck PC-pig squeals over the next couple 2G quarters because unlike much of the Digital assimilation, what the new rK HP has to offer isn't unique and it most cases can be acquired elsewhere...a   Barrys   --    @ Barry Treahy, Jr  *  Midwest Microwave  *  Vice President & CIO   A E-mail: Treahy@mmaz.com * Phone: 480/314-1320 * FAX: 480/661-7028S   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 09 May 2002 16:23:10 GMTw# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>" Subject: Re: Powered by HPI Message-ID: <OnxC8.26090$GLp1.14253@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>n  < "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com> wrote in message4 news:DswC8.5417$Po6.299@rwcrnsc52.ops.asp.att.net... >  >tK > Compaq had plenty of time to prepare for the Compaq-tion, too. Looks like G > HPQ has its stuff together far better than Eckhard's Army did severalO yearss > ago. > K > So apparently Curly and Carly profited from prior gaffes. That is IMHO anm > auspicious sign!    E So they had plenty of time to carefully word their vacuous statements K regarding the importance of OpenVMS. Exactly the kind of statement a lawyerBF would write when they want allow their client to weasel out of a deal.   ------------------------------   Date: 9 May 2002 00:19:41 -0700 - From: peng-loke-vincent.chua@hp.com (Vincent)B# Subject: Query on DPML$SHR.EXE filee= Message-ID: <411ddeae.0205082319.15ac4148@posting.google.com>o   Hi,D@    I have a query on the above mentioned file. We recently had a> problem at a customer site where one of their SQR programs hadF incorrect output due to the above mentioned image. They were using VMSC 7.2-1h1. We found out that there was no problem when the program is7F run with the DPML$SHR.EXE image supplied by VMS 7.2 but this image wasF replaced by one of older version when Fortran V7.3-1 is installed. TheC size,link date and build of the 2 images are different. Can someonevC advise what are the differences in the 2 files? The one supplied byeC Fortran was linked in 8-Dec-1999 while the one by VMS was linked onrF 18-May-2000. Would there be any implications if I just INSTALL/REPLACEB the image? Would it affect any other programs that made use of the library?   Rgds   Vincentw   ------------------------------    Date: 09 May 2002 23:58:08 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>  Subject: Re: Revisionist history- Message-ID: <87elglqpnz.fsf@prep.synonet.com>.  - young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) writes:t  D > Sun has been marginalized.  Sinking market cap and annual sales onC > par with a single quarter of Hewlett-Packard/Compaq.  Being a onem6 > trick pony in a down economy is not the place to be.  	
 > Eviscerate!u  B And that is just what Sun is doing to the VMS installed base. OverD here, there is almost no-one left with VMS. All but 3 that I know of! are going to Sun, one may go IBM.o  F There is a very large tender out, or about to be out. If HP follow the8 game plan and push PHUX, then IBM will clean up the lot.   -- (< Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda. @                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------    Date: 09 May 2002 23:51:44 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>  Subject: Re: Revisionist history- Message-ID: <87it5xqpyn.fsf@prep.synonet.com>e  / koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes:g   > In article <BE56C50EA024184DAF48F0B9A47F5CF401AB1F0F@kaoexc01.americas.cpqcorp.net>, "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@Compaq.com> writes:  B > > Remember that when the Alpha was first introduced, the initialF > > Alpha systems were slower than some of the big VAX systems. It wasF > > only over time when newer Alpha systems began to rapidly pull away+ > > from those big VAX systems performance.   F >    Just barely.  When Pathworks for OpenVMS Alpha 1.5 was announced,E >    I bought the cheapest, slowest Alpha DEC shipped (DEC 3000 Model0F >    200?  I'm not sure about the model number) to replace an MV II weF >    were using as our server.  It was only slightly slower than a VAX
 >    9000.  E The biggest Vaxen would have been the 74x0(?) No it wasn't, the Omega F was the current uP Vax when the Alpha shipped.! (Yes, Alpha and Omega,I DEC humour lived on) so what was that in the Laser line? 72x0? What ever,.H the Laser and the IOPs would kill a Jensen in nothing flat!! I never hadK a chance to drive a Alpha 7000, so I don't knwo how they stacked up against  the Vax 7Ks.   -- o< Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.t@                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------    Date: 09 May 2002 23:45:32 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>  Subject: Re: Revisionist history- Message-ID: <87n0v9qq8z.fsf@prep.synonet.com>a  7 "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> writes:   : > Sure.  Smoke and mirrors in the compiler.  They found anC > optimization that helps a handful of tests, and in particular one B > test.  It's unlikely to translate to much in the way of any userC > code performance, but it does make them (for the time being) look.F > better on paper.  Eventually, everyone else will bite the bullet andB > have their compiler people do the same, and Sparc will return to > it's bottom dweller position.0  E They got rid of the slab of sloth that TI was fabbing into every chip*C :) Plus a slew of detail improvments, and something in the compiler . that goosed some of the numbers like a rocket!  F SPARK has been a respectable performer except for the last year or so,B and that is 99.9% fabbing problems. Remember that Fugitsu hold theB 'no-holds barred' super crown with their verson and fabbing of the& chip, so it *can* perform pretty well.  E Sun hanging in and holding a steady course has won them more business D than any SPEC numbers or what ever. Good enough to be level or ahead* of IBM with POWER4 in the clean-up stakes.   -- h< Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda. @                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 09 May 2002 11:47:52 +0200e From: Dirk Munk <munk@home.nl>* Subject: Re: Sayonara DS10, new org charts$ Message-ID: <3CDA45C8.30207@home.nl>   Peter LANGSTOEGER wrote:e > In article <iYFfasiODRUv@eisner.encompasserve.org>, Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) writes:d >  >>In article <rdeininger-0705021942570001@1cust251.tnt2.nashua.nh.da.uu.net>, rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger) writes: >> >>M >>>I can't find any confirmation that the DS10 is retiring soon.  I think theg >>>story had this wrong. >>F >>Concievably some particular model number is being withdrawn in favor* >>of one with slightly different features. >  > > > Maybe the 466 is EOLed and only the 600MHz variant is left ?F > Or did this already happen (I've no longer access to the price file)  F Yes that happened. Just check the quick specs for the DS10. I do hope F the DS10 is no goin to be retired. I want to use them (with VMS) as a ( DECnis replacement for X.25 connections.   >    ------------------------------    Date: 09 May 2002 23:31:40 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>* Subject: Re: Sayonara DS10, new org charts- Message-ID: <87r8klqqw3.fsf@prep.synonet.com>n  ; Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> writes:-  N > > Interesting that thew new DS20 has a SCISI controller  with a mention "for > > Linux only".  r > This is the DS20L.                  ^3 > > Can anyone care to explain what this is about ?i  eK > There was a thread here a while back about this being a very specialised  A > box and not supported on VMS---or do you have another question?b  . So is this a Not-Blue box, or a Not-White box?   -- n< Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda. @                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------   Date: 9 May 2002 07:30:40 -0500iB From: clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP (Simon Clubley)< Subject: Re: Scott Stallard, forget your VMS to HP UX dream!3 Message-ID: <BaNqVAJuqofD@eisner.encompasserve.org>c  h In article <d7791aa1.0205081051.3d4ff1bd@posting.google.com>, bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski) writes: > C > it's right here off the openvms.compaq site ... Stallard in this P > assuring pdf mentions9 > H > 1) tools being developed to help port from vms to hp ux (why, Capellas, >    said unix was going to be eviscurated?) > = > 2) says in the Q/A on the bottom, were they have a questioni; >    "Will a migration path to hp ux be available"? were heu? >    responds "Yes, as we believe hp ux on IPF is the best pathe >    for VMS users" ...o >   G Before I comment on what he actually said, I would just like to commenttJ that when you put something in quotes, it comes across as been the _exact_M thing that was said. In this case, what he actually says is pretty bad (IMHO)cM but not quite as bad as the above might lead someone to believe. Here is what . he actually said, cut-and-pasted from the PDF:  ) 		----------------------------------------, Q: Will you offer a migration path to HP-UX?3 A: Yes. We believe HP-UX on Itanium is an excellent@. long-term choice for OpenVMS customers, but we3 want to support them moving on their own timetable.v1 We will be evaluating what new tools and services(0 may be required to help them transition to HP-UX if they so desire.) 		---------------------------------------   - Why do I think that the above is pretty bad ?e  I Simple: on day 1 of a merger, the new owner of a product line (VMS) comeslF along and makes a point of saying that we are giving you the option ofA moving to another competing product. Why even say this ? The onlyiD justification would be if large numbers of current VMS customers areF asking for this, in which case the above quote should have been wordedI something along the lines of " ...OpenVMS customers who have asked us forn< a migration option,..." instead of just "OpenVMS customers".  I The above comes across strongly as needing to do the job of inserting thee. idea of migration into the minds of VMS users.   Simon.   -- aB Simon Clubley, clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP       + Microsoft: The Lada of the computing world.    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 09 May 2002 14:22:06 GMT-# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>04 Subject: Re: Some more words of wisdom from CapellasI Message-ID: <iCvC8.25550$GLp1.17445@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>n  # "Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy".> <andrew_nospam.harrison_remove_this@sun#.com> wrote in message* news:abblu6$gqt$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com... >  >): > HP-UX, pretty credible UNIX but third in the market, hey' > lets face it thats better than Tru64.a >h  : Not better, just more market share. There is a difference.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 09 May 2002 18:00:55 +0100eU From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <andrew_nospam.harrison_remove_this@sun#.com> 4 Subject: Re: Some more words of wisdom from Capellas0 Message-ID: <abea07$9l5$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   John Smith wrote:   % > "Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy" @ > <andrew_nospam.harrison_remove_this@sun#.com> wrote in message, > news:abblu6$gqt$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com... >  >>: >>HP-UX, pretty credible UNIX but third in the market, hey' >>lets face it thats better than Tru64.w >> >>    5 This is a discussion about being first-to-market withn2 Oracle, its a claim being made by Compaq. It isn't6 true of course Sun has much better pretentions to this title than Compaq.  5 But the point about HP-UX being better than Tru64 dido8 not relate to its technical capability but to its market2 share which is what Oracle are more interested in.  8 HP and Compaq appear to think that amalgamating a number9 of divisions that are 2and 3rd or 4th in their respective 7 markets will result in entities that are market leaderse in each market.a  9 The history of technology mergers would suggest that thist7 hope is wildly optimistic. HP took over Apollo who were : 2and to HP's 3rd in the Workstation market, their combined6 revenue lead over Sun who was in 1st lasted 1 quarter.       Regardsr Andrew Harrisonm   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 9 May 2002 10:53:48 -0400# From: "Dan Allen" <dallen@nist.gov>e: Subject: RE: SOT: Yo Andrew, you guys on a roll this week?: Message-ID: <NEBBIALHDHJMJINPGMOAOEKDEJAA.dallen@nist.gov>  M 	Sorry - no relation.  Just a poke at your continued claims that Solaris is ae5 	secure and stable platform relatively free of bugs. 8   > -----Original Message-----) > From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancyd6 > [mailto:andrew_nospam.harrison_remove_this@sun#.com]' > Sent: Wednesday, May 08, 2002 5:21 AM  > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comt< > Subject: Re: SOT: Yo Andrew, you guys on a roll this week? >  >  > Blimey > " > Has Bob got a lost twin brother. > 	 > Regardsa > Andrew Harrisonr >  > Dan Allen wrote: >   > > ----- Original Message -----) > > From: "FedCIRC" <fedcirc@fedcirc.gov>- > > To: <FedCIRC-Community:>& > > Sent: Monday, May 06, 2002 4:45 PMH > > Subject: FedCIRC Advisory FA-2002-11 Heap Overflow in Cachefs Daemon > > (cachefsd) > >  > >  > >  > >>& > >>-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > >>J > >>FedCIRC Advisory FA-2002-11 Heap Overflow in Cachefs Daemon (cachefsd) > >>* > >>   Original release date: May 06, 2002 > >>   Last revised: > >>   Source: CERT/CC > >>H > >>   A complete revision history can be found at the end of this file. > >> > >>  Systems Affected > >>K > >>     * Sun Solaris 2.5.1, 2.6, 7, and 8 (SPARC and Intel Architectures)l > >> > >>Overview > >>M > >>   Sun's  NFS/RPC  file  system  cachefs daemon (cachefsd) is shipped and,M > >>   installed  by default with Sun Solaris 2.5.1, 2.6, 7, and 8 (SPARC and M > >>   Intel  architectures).  A remotely exploitable vulnerability exists intM > >>   cachefsd that could permit a remote attacker to execute arbitrary codedM > >>   with  the  privileges of the cachefsd, typically root. The CERT/CC has M > >>   received  credible  reports  of  scanning  and exploitation of Solarisk  > >>   systems running cachefsd. > >> > >>I. Description > >>M > >>   A  remotely  exploitable  heap overflow exists in the cachefsd program M > >>   shipped and installed by default with Sun Solaris 2.5.1, 2.6, 7, and 8gM > >>   (SPARC   and   Intel  architectures).  Cachefsd  caches  requests  foreM > >>   operations on remote file systems mounted via the use of NFS protocol.0M > >>   A  remote  attacker  can  send  a  crafted RPC request to the cachefsdr, > >>   program to exploit the vulnerability. > >>@ > >>   Logs of exploitation attempts may resemble the following: > >>I > >>May 16 22:46:08 victim-host inetd[600]: /usr/lib/fs/cachefs/cachefsd:g$ > >>Segmentation Fault - core dumped > >>= > >>May 16 22:46:21 victim-host last message repeated 7 times  > >>I > >>May 16 22:46:22 victim-host inetd[600]: /usr/lib/fs/cachefs/cachefsd:g > >>Bus Error- core dumped > >>I > >>May 16 22:46:24 victim-host inetd[600]: /usr/lib/fs/cachefs/cachefsd:o$ > >>Segmentation Fault - core dumped > >>I > >>May 16 22:46:56 victim-host inetd[600]: /usr/lib/fs/cachefs/cachefsd:f > >>Bus Error - core dumpedy > >>< > >>May 16 22:46:59 victim-host last message repeated 1 time > >>I > >>May 16 22:47:02 victim-host inetd[600]: /usr/lib/fs/cachefs/cachefsd:p$ > >>Segmentation Fault - core dumped > >>= > >>May 16 22:47:07 victim-host last message repeated 3 timesk > >>I > >>May 16 22:47:09 victim-host inetd[600]: /usr/lib/fs/cachefs/cachefsd:l
 > >>Hangup > >>I > >>May 16 22:47:11 victim-host inetd[600]: /usr/lib/fs/cachefs/cachefsd:u$ > >>Segmentation Fault - core dumped > >>M > >>   According  a  Sun  Alert Notification, failed attempts to exploit thiseM > >>   vulnerability  may  leave  a core dump file in the root directory. ThecM > >>   presence  of the core file does not preclude the success of subsequent6M > >>   attacks.  Additionally,  if  the  file  /etc/cachefstab exists, it mayM > >>   contain unusual entries.s > >>< > >>   This issue is also being referenced as CAN-2002-0085: > >>D > >>     http://cve.mitre.org/cgi-bin/cvename.cgi?name=CAN-2002-0085 > >>M > >>   The  Australian  Computer  Emergency  Response Team has also issued an A > >>   advisory related to incident activity exploiting cachefsd:  > >>N > >>  http://www.auscert.org.au/Information/Advisories/advisory/AA-2002.01.txt > >> > >>II. Impact > >>M > >>   A  remote  attacker may be able to execute code with the privileges ofu, > >>   the cachefsd process, typically root. > >> > >>III. Solutionv > >>% > >>   Apply a patch from your vendoro > >>M > >>   Appendix A contains information provided by vendors for this advisory.t > >>M > >>   If  a  patch  is not available, disable cachefsd in inetd.conf until a  > >>   patch can be applied. > >>M > >>   If  disabling  the  cachefsd  is  not  an option, follow the suggested-0 > >>   workaround in the Sun Alert Notification. > >>$ > >>Appendix A. - Vendor Information > >>M > >>   This  appendix  contains  information  provided  by  vendors  for this M > >>   advisory.  As  vendors  report new information to the CERT/CC, we willgM > >>   update this section and note the changes in our revision history. If a M > >>   particular  vendor is not listed below, please check the Vulnerability 8 > >>   Note (VU#635811) or contact your vendor directly. > >> > >>    IBMd > >>E > >>     IBM's AIX operating system, all versions, is not vulnerable.r > >> > >>    SGIs > >>H > >>     SGI does not ship with SUN cachefsd, so IRIX is not vulnerable. > >> > >>    Suny > >>L > >>     See     the     Sun     Alert     Notification     available     atI > >>     http://sunsolve.sun.com/pub-cgi/retrieve.pl?doc=fsalert%2F44309.nH > >>   _________________________________________________________________ > >>M > >>   The CERT/CC acknowledges the eSecurity Online Team for discovering andgM > >>   reporting  on this vulnerability and thanks Sun Microsystems for theirg > >>   technical assistance.H > >>   _________________________________________________________________ > >>1 > >>   Feedback  can  be directed to the authors: . > >>   Jason A. Rafail and Jeffrey S. HavrillaM > >>   ______________________________________________________________________a > >>' > >>   This document is available from:h9 > >>   http://www2.fedcirc.gov/advisories/FA-2002-11.htmloM > >>   ______________________________________________________________________e > >> > >>FedCIRC Contact Informationl > >>! > >>   Email: fedcirc@fedcirc.govi@ > >>          Phone: +1 888-282-0870 (24-hour toll-free hotline)6 > >>          Phone: +1 703-375-2222 (24-hour hotline)" > >>          Fax: +1 703-375-2427 > >>J > >>   FedCIRC personnel answer the hotline 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. > >> > >>    Using encryption > >>M > >>   We  strongly  urge you to encrypt sensitive information sent by email.8+ > >>   Our public PGP key is available fromo > >>( > >>   http://www2.fedcirc.gov/keys.html > >>M > >>   If  you  prefer  to  use DES, please call the FedCIRC hotline for mores > >>   information.E > >>$ > >>    Getting security information > >>M > >>   FedCIRC publications and other security information are available fromb > >>   our web sitea > >> > >>   http://www.fedcirc.gov/ > >>M > >>   FedCIRC  (Federal Computer Incident Response Center) provides securityiM > >>   services  to U.S. Federal civilian agencies. FedCIRC is managed by thesM > >>   U.S.  General  Services  Administration.  The CERT Coordination Center J > >>   performs incident and vulnerability analysis and issues advisories. > >>M > >>   *  "CERT"  and  "CERT  Coordination Center" are registered in the U.S. # > >>   Patent and Trademark Office.oM > >>   ______________________________________________________________________  > >> > >>   NO WARRANTYM > >>   Any  material furnished by Carnegie Mellon University and the SoftwaregM > >>   Engineering  Institute  is  furnished  on  an  "as is" basis. Carnegie M > >>   Mellon University makes no warranties of any kind, either expressed ornM > >>   implied  as  to  any matter including, but not limited to, warranty of M > >>   fitness  for  a  particular purpose or merchantability, exclusivity or M > >>   results  obtained from use of the material. Carnegie Mellon University M > >>   does  not  make  any warranty of any kind with respect to freedom from 4 > >>   patent, trademark, or copyright infringement. > >>1 > >>   Copyright 2002 Carnegie Mellon University.- > >> > >>   Revision History+( > >>      May 06, 2002:  Initial release > >>! > >>-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----y > >>Version: PGP 6.5.8 > >>D > >>iQEVAwUBPNbqgIBMzw7XZGn/AQEJwggAgEFMO8YIsP/0I2XHStYlZLJDoBx5jB9MD > >>MuUWsTtYBbrnoyu6sJhpo3GjshT+k2k5kj9PjbmFLmqfUShmM3G/W3yc21D2w8M3D > >>9ogIpwBZXAYIEiLRKkqFdBqcUn2dE8mixAOW3AvrqZb54CwQxkVFLVshkYHIRSsND > >>lJz7zfAaw7bDqXTc9OrI/TBFdkPR9rHBJpyQgtxzKzThcawwTu+LfEl8ZlxQizaOD > >>Ofu1cA/4phBe4WO/KnSQKmKACHhFZsoO2hSTdRwx9t3hq9zaoleS2oB1EHHspuqm< > >>k6LqSobTuYsD3sHE2c9bGPyNj4KUkyLpYicYRxzPEn3RWtDQbebvzw==	 > >>=MrUe  > >>-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----  > >> > >> > >  > >  > >  >  >    ------------------------------   Date: 9 May 02 10:37:49 +0200t) From: p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture) : Subject: Re: SPAM from HP Office of the CEO and President?) Message-ID: <29xUgfNBlOKe@elias.decus.ch>e  Q In article <3CD9E9A9.C03DEC94@rdrop.com>, Dean Woodward <deanw@rdrop.com> writes:t > Robert Deininger wrote:  >> bI >> If anyone knows how to force Nanosoft Outhouse to send plain text, notnJ >> HTML, not quoted-printable, please explain it to the rest of us.  I canJ >> turn off HTML, but "plain text" actually gets encoded quoted-printable. > D > Er, no.  In Outlook 2000, Tools -> Options -> set format to "Plain' > Text".  It forces a header that says:i > 2 >   Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > I > But it's not MIME encapsulated.  (Later versions may be further broken; F > but this works for me.)  However, if you reply to a MIME message, it) > overrides your settings no matter what.u  I On that, someone sent me a message last week containing a single accentedaO character. That appeared to be enough to switch MIME on, as when he tried again:1 without the accent, it came as plain text. Grrrr.C   __
 Paul Sture SwitzerlandT   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 09 May 2002 15:21:21 GMTl1 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com>n: Subject: Re: SPAM from HP Office of the CEO and President?* Message-ID: <RtwC8.4944$UV4.209@rwcrnsc54>  E Call it SPAM if you will. Heck, at least these folks are trying to do 4 SOMETHING. Contrast this with the DEC acquisition...  A "Carl Karcher" <karcher@thuria.waisman.wisc.edu> wrote in messageh/ news:8MAY02.14554885@thuria.waisman.wisc.edu...fJ > I received what I thought was a SPAM e-mail which claimed to be from the= > "HP Office of the CEO and President" with a from address ofeF > R-0-740133-5011673-2-66028-US1-E12BEF25@xmr3.com. It was entirely inC > HTML format, which I usually delete. For kicks I viewed it with a C > browser and it does look like it could be from "the new HP". I've-2 > included the entire text below with the headers. >:/ > My point (if this message really is from HP):. >>< > The first contact from HP with Compaq customers is an HTMLL > only e-mail message that looks like a spam many people will simply delete!* > They just re-invented "clueless" for me. >e > --I > -- Carl Karcher, Waisman Computing Services, Waisman Center, UW-Madisoni >h > Here's the complete message:E > -------------------------------------------------------------------hA > Return-path: <D-8-740133-5011673-2-66028-US1-708F2A88@xmr3.com> G > Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.Waisman.Wisc.EDU by Waisman.Wisc.EDUsE >  (PMDF V6.0-24 #39540) id <01KHGDNRTDR4A7ZFN7@Waisman.Wisc.EDU> for B >  karcher@Waisman.Wisc.EDU (ORCPT karcher@waisman.wisc.edu); Tue,# >  07 May 2002 17:40:25 -0500 (CDT) - > Received: from memailout31.messagereach.com 3 >  (memailout31.messagereach.com [205.183.255.159]) , >  by Waisman.Wisc.EDU (PMDF V6.0-24 #39540): >  with ESMTP id <01KHGDNCFBZGA2895B@Waisman.Wisc.EDU> forB >  karcher@Waisman.Wisc.EDU (ORCPT karcher@waisman.wisc.edu); Tue,# >  07 May 2002 17:40:24 -0500 (CDT)u > Content-return: prohibited' > Date: Tue, 07 May 2002 18:40:23 -0400 * > From: HP Office of the CEO and President5 >  <R-0-740133-5011673-2-66028-US1-E12BEF25@xmr3.com>.  > Subject: Welcome to the New HP > To: karcher@Waisman.Wisc.Edu@ > Message-id: <I-8-740133-5011673-2-66028-US1-9A495D92@xmr3.com> > MIME-version: 1.0 - > Content-type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1s5 > Original-recipient: rfc822;karcher@waisman.wisc.edue >i > Dear Valued Customer,  >tI > Today we bring together two great companies to create one world-leadingtD > technology company that we hope will earn the coveted role as yourI > partner of choice. Hard work and the courage of our convictions broughtmG > us to this day. Now, we're eager to prove we can seize the moment andoA > lead the change in our industry. Most important, we're eager tonC > demonstrate that our passion for customers is stronger than ever.M >cD > We believe this merger offers our customers important benefits. ByD > combining our strengths, we not only create the industry's leadingE > portfolio of products, technologies and solutions, we're putting antH > extraordinary set of people, skills and processes at your disposal. We? > more than double the number of IT architects, consultants and I > professionals available to help you get the most out of your technology(A > investments. We are now the leader in the technologies that arerF > essential to running your business: servers, fault-tolerant systems,F > storage solutions, network management software, imaging and printingI > solutions and personal computers. We have doubled the size of our salesrI > force, enabling us to serve you more effectively and to deliver greateraG > value. We have increased our research and development capabilities soSI > that we continue to make meaningful advances in technology that benefitb@ > you. And we have strengthened our position as the world's mostH > innovative and successful consumer IT company, which gives us a uniqueE > opportunity to help our business customers bridge the world between  > content and commerce.i >tI > By joining forces, we will also be able to reduce costs and improve ourrE > operating model, enabling us to devote more of our resources towardcH > pursuits that produce greater value for you - today and in the future. >1J > While this merger obviously signifies change, we are committed to makingJ > the process of integrating our two companies as transparent as possible.H > In fact, many aspects of doing business with the combined company willB > remain the same - starting with our unwavering commitment to putI > customers first. Around the world, employees and partners of the new HPuI > will make every effort to ensure that your day-to-day interactions with E > the new company go smoothly throughout the integration period - and-H > beyond. In the coming weeks, we will continue to provide you with more > information on the new HP. >dG > On behalf of the people of the new HP, we would like to thank you foroD > standing by us through this important journey. We do not take yourJ > loyalty for granted. We look forward to proving ourselves and building aJ > new kind of technology company - one that you will be proud to call your > strategic IT partner.. >  > Warm regards,e >  >d > Carly Fiorinar& > Chairman and Chief Executive Officer > Michael Capellas > President  >h >i5 > Direct all replies to mergerhotline@hp-feedback.come >t > B > Please be advised that you will not receive any additional email@ > from HP unless you have explicitly asked to receive it. If youB > have any questions or concerns, please click below to learn more > about our Privacy Policy.h& > http://p01.com/u.d?tETRYJxo1Vne03=30E > -------------------------------------------------------------------f >v   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 09 May 2002 15:59:56 GMT * From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>: Subject: Re: SPAM from HP Office of the CEO and President?B Message-ID: <02xC8.144541$Lj.11433021@bin4.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>  < "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com> wrote in message$ news:RtwC8.4944$UV4.209@rwcrnsc54...G > Call it SPAM if you will. Heck, at least these folks are trying to do-6 > SOMETHING. Contrast this with the DEC acquisition...  J Well, if spouting a load of content-free Carly-crap constitutes 'trying toL do something', I'll take Pfeiffer's approach any day.  He at least knew what< Alpha was and took advantage of opportunities to talk it up.   - bill   >eC > "Carl Karcher" <karcher@thuria.waisman.wisc.edu> wrote in messagei1 > news:8MAY02.14554885@thuria.waisman.wisc.edu...oL > > I received what I thought was a SPAM e-mail which claimed to be from the? > > "HP Office of the CEO and President" with a from address ofuH > > R-0-740133-5011673-2-66028-US1-E12BEF25@xmr3.com. It was entirely inE > > HTML format, which I usually delete. For kicks I viewed it with aiE > > browser and it does look like it could be from "the new HP". I've 4 > > included the entire text below with the headers. > >m1 > > My point (if this message really is from HP):  > >j> > > The first contact from HP with Compaq customers is an HTMLF > > only e-mail message that looks like a spam many people will simply delete! , > > They just re-invented "clueless" for me. > >  > > --K > > -- Carl Karcher, Waisman Computing Services, Waisman Center, UW-Madison  > >   > > Here's the complete message:G > > -------------------------------------------------------------------fC > > Return-path: <D-8-740133-5011673-2-66028-US1-708F2A88@xmr3.com>1I > > Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.Waisman.Wisc.EDU by Waisman.Wisc.EDU G > >  (PMDF V6.0-24 #39540) id <01KHGDNRTDR4A7ZFN7@Waisman.Wisc.EDU> for D > >  karcher@Waisman.Wisc.EDU (ORCPT karcher@waisman.wisc.edu); Tue,% > >  07 May 2002 17:40:25 -0500 (CDT)u/ > > Received: from memailout31.messagereach.coms5 > >  (memailout31.messagereach.com [205.183.255.159])e. > >  by Waisman.Wisc.EDU (PMDF V6.0-24 #39540)< > >  with ESMTP id <01KHGDNCFBZGA2895B@Waisman.Wisc.EDU> forD > >  karcher@Waisman.Wisc.EDU (ORCPT karcher@waisman.wisc.edu); Tue,% > >  07 May 2002 17:40:24 -0500 (CDT)s > > Content-return: prohibited) > > Date: Tue, 07 May 2002 18:40:23 -0400v, > > From: HP Office of the CEO and President7 > >  <R-0-740133-5011673-2-66028-US1-E12BEF25@xmr3.com> " > > Subject: Welcome to the New HP  > > To: karcher@Waisman.Wisc.EduB > > Message-id: <I-8-740133-5011673-2-66028-US1-9A495D92@xmr3.com> > > MIME-version: 1.0F/ > > Content-type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1n7 > > Original-recipient: rfc822;karcher@waisman.wisc.edum > >x > > Dear Valued Customer,  > > K > > Today we bring together two great companies to create one world-leading F > > technology company that we hope will earn the coveted role as yourK > > partner of choice. Hard work and the courage of our convictions broughtmI > > us to this day. Now, we're eager to prove we can seize the moment and C > > lead the change in our industry. Most important, we're eager to>E > > demonstrate that our passion for customers is stronger than ever.  > >eF > > We believe this merger offers our customers important benefits. ByF > > combining our strengths, we not only create the industry's leadingG > > portfolio of products, technologies and solutions, we're putting an J > > extraordinary set of people, skills and processes at your disposal. WeA > > more than double the number of IT architects, consultants andtK > > professionals available to help you get the most out of your technology C > > investments. We are now the leader in the technologies that are H > > essential to running your business: servers, fault-tolerant systems,H > > storage solutions, network management software, imaging and printingK > > solutions and personal computers. We have doubled the size of our sales K > > force, enabling us to serve you more effectively and to deliver greaterlI > > value. We have increased our research and development capabilities solK > > that we continue to make meaningful advances in technology that benefittB > > you. And we have strengthened our position as the world's mostJ > > innovative and successful consumer IT company, which gives us a uniqueG > > opportunity to help our business customers bridge the world betweenh > > content and commerce.a > >rK > > By joining forces, we will also be able to reduce costs and improve ouraG > > operating model, enabling us to devote more of our resources towardIJ > > pursuits that produce greater value for you - today and in the future. > >rL > > While this merger obviously signifies change, we are committed to makingL > > the process of integrating our two companies as transparent as possible.J > > In fact, many aspects of doing business with the combined company willD > > remain the same - starting with our unwavering commitment to putK > > customers first. Around the world, employees and partners of the new HP K > > will make every effort to ensure that your day-to-day interactions withtG > > the new company go smoothly throughout the integration period - and J > > beyond. In the coming weeks, we will continue to provide you with more > > information on the new HP. > >oI > > On behalf of the people of the new HP, we would like to thank you forhF > > standing by us through this important journey. We do not take yourL > > loyalty for granted. We look forward to proving ourselves and building aL > > new kind of technology company - one that you will be proud to call your > > strategic IT partner.  > >u > > Warm regards,  > >  > >  > > Carly Fiorinad( > > Chairman and Chief Executive Officer > > Michael Capellas
 > > President  > >  > > 7 > > Direct all replies to mergerhotline@hp-feedback.comi > >  > >tD > > Please be advised that you will not receive any additional emailB > > from HP unless you have explicitly asked to receive it. If youD > > have any questions or concerns, please click below to learn more > > about our Privacy Policy. ( > > http://p01.com/u.d?tETRYJxo1Vne03=30G > > -------------------------------------------------------------------_ > >_ >_ >_   ------------------------------   Date: 9 MAY 2002 13:47:24 GMTe4 From: karcher@thuria.waisman.wisc.edu (Carl Karcher): Subject: Re: SPAM from HP Office of the CEO and President?5 Message-ID: <9MAY02.13472414@thuria.waisman.wisc.edu>   ; In a previous article, "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> wrote:w  7 ->> Direct all replies to mergerhotline@hp-feedback.com_ -> _J ->This site is a legitimate HP site. I plan on using this email address toN ->express my disgust at the apparent lack of marketing support for VMS and the ->push for HP/UX.0  K Good idea. I did the same. I encourage others to direct their vents to thisl address as well.   --G -- Carl Karcher, Waisman Computing Services, Waisman Center, UW-Madisonu   ------------------------------   Date: 9 May 2002 07:40:28 -0700 ( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)# Subject: Re: Stallards smoking gun! = Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0205090640.2788c351@posting.google.com>2  a JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message news:<3CD9A753.9B7FA31F@videotron.ca>...r > Bob Ceculski wrote:i; > > If VMS is being ported to Itanium, why would porting to : > > hp ux be the best alternative?  Does this sound like a2 > > company that is going to support VMS?  NO WAY! > H > Where is that famous secret letter you were so proudly talking about ?  C vms has survived and will survive as I said, however, that does not @ mean the fight has ended ... this proves the same mentality that< existed in Q has popped up in HP, and it must be confronted!  : I am doing my share ... what are you doing useful for vms?  A The same as Bill Todd and everyone else around here, just whinings+ and moaning like a bunch of 2 year olds ...r   ------------------------------   Date: 9 May 2002 07:43:20 -0700_( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)# Subject: Re: Stallards smoking gun!b= Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0205090643.729eaff2@posting.google.com>i  t "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> wrote in message news:<z5gC8.17762$GLp1.15568@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>...7 > "Bob Ceculski" <bob@instantwhip.com> wrote in messager9 > news:d7791aa1.0205081057.1bd0f0b5@posting.google.com...s> > > it's right here in the pdf off of the openvms web site ...# > > in the bottom under VMS Q/A ...f > >m > >a; > > If VMS is being ported to Itanium, why would porting toa" > > hp ux be the best alternative? > N > Because if HP can use FUD on enough customers quickly to get them to port toL > HP/UX,  then they can pull the plug on the IA-64 port, notwithstanding the$ > prior public statements otherwise. > M > Carly & Co. get paid by boosting the bottom line for HP. If they think thatBI > they can make more money for the company by strangling VMS, then that'syJ > exactly what they will do, without any regard for the customer impact it > will have.  ? this was tried by Palmer w/NT ... us vms holdovers know better!B3 if we knew better then, we haven't lost our senses!/@ if anything, we'll port to AS400/OS400 before we would ever port to unix garbage, esp. HP's!n   ------------------------------   Date: 9 May 2002 15:05:48 -0000 4 From: Doc.Cypher <Use-Author-Address-Header@[127.1]># Subject: Re: Stallards smoking gun!05 Message-ID: <20020509150548.5190.qmail@gacracker.org>c  8 On 9 May 2002, bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski) wrote:9 >JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message9) >news:<3CD9A753.9B7FA31F@videotron.ca>...r >> Bob Ceculski wrote:< >> > If VMS is being ported to Itanium, why would porting toH >> > hp ux be the best alternative?  Does this sound like a company that' >> > is going to support VMS?  NO WAY! c >> >I >> Where is that famous secret letter you were so proudly talking about ?  > D >vms has survived and will survive as I said, however, that does notA >mean the fight has ended ... this proves the same mentality thatp= >existed in Q has popped up in HP, and it must be confronted!d  J People in this newsgroup have been confronting *that* mentality for years,H nothing ever seems to change. Is it any wonder they're cynical about it?  ; >I am doing my share ... what are you doing useful for vms?n  J What share? Where? The goddamned marketing and promotion of VMS is the jobK of the company that owns it. When it was Compaq I figured someone should be K shot. So far with HP I see the same uncaring attitude. It's just that there,5 are some new people to nominate for the firing squad.e  B >The same as Bill Todd and everyone else around here, just whining, >and moaning like a bunch of 2 year olds ...  D Actually, they're being critical, not blindly cheering on the OS andC ignoring the faults of its owners, past and present. Without caring 4 ownership VMS *is* dead, it's just a matter of time.  < Anyway, you did a pretty poor job of dodging the question...  K Where is this famous secret letter? Or was it written in vanishing ink likeH$ so many "commitments" from the past?     Doc. -- s6 The bigger the humbug, the better people will like it.K ~ Phineas Taylor Barnum.                             https://vmsbox.cjb.nete   ------------------------------   Date: 9 May 2002 15:08:16 -0000e4 From: Doc.Cypher <Use-Author-Address-Header@[127.1]># Subject: Re: Stallards smoking gun!e5 Message-ID: <20020509150816.5234.qmail@gacracker.org>m  8 On 9 May 2002, bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski) wrote:/ >"John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> wrote in messagelF >news:<z5gC8.17762$GLp1.15568@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>...8 >> "Bob Ceculski" <bob@instantwhip.com> wrote in message; >> news:d7791aa1.0205081057.1bd0f0b5@posting.google.com... -? >> > it's right here in the pdf off of the openvms web site ...:$ >> > in the bottom under VMS Q/A ... >> > >> >N >> > If VMS is being ported to Itanium, why would porting to hp ux be the best >> > alternative?  >>  O >> Because if HP can use FUD on enough customers quickly to get them to port torM >> HP/UX,  then they can pull the plug on the IA-64 port, notwithstanding the % >> prior public statements otherwise.( >> lN >> Carly & Co. get paid by boosting the bottom line for HP. If they think thatJ >> they can make more money for the company by strangling VMS, then that'sK >> exactly what they will do, without any regard for the customer impact it1 >> will have.  >u@ >this was tried by Palmer w/NT ... us vms holdovers know better!4 >if we knew better then, we haven't lost our senses!A >if anything, we'll port to AS400/OS400 before we would ever portl >to unix garbage, esp. HP's!  K Did you ever communicate this "threat" to Compaq? Do you have any intentionrH of communicating it to HP? And, more to the point, do you honestly think
 they care?     Doc. -- f6 The bigger the humbug, the better people will like it.K ~ Phineas Taylor Barnum.                             https://vmsbox.cjb.nete  n   ------------------------------   Date: 9 May 2002 17:48:50 GMT 1 From: bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)e# Subject: Re: Stallards smoking gun! , Message-ID: <abecq2$275k$1@info.cs.uofs.edu>  = In article <d7791aa1.0205090640.2788c351@posting.google.com>,t+  bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski) writes:pd |> JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message news:<3CD9A753.9B7FA31F@videotron.ca>... |> > Bob Ceculski wrote:> |> > > If VMS is being ported to Itanium, why would porting to= |> > > hp ux be the best alternative?  Does this sound like ag5 |> > > company that is going to support VMS?  NO WAY!e |> > uK |> > Where is that famous secret letter you were so proudly talking about ?n |>  F |> vms has survived and will survive as I said, however, that does notC |> mean the fight has ended ... this proves the same mentality that ? |> existed in Q has popped up in HP, and it must be confronted!t |>  = |> I am doing my share ... what are you doing useful for vms?r |> gD |> The same as Bill Todd and everyone else around here, just whining. |> and moaning like a bunch of 2 year olds ...  D So, can we assume from the fact that you totally ignored what seemedB like a rather simple and straightforward question that the "famousJ secret letter"(tm) was just a fabrication as many here said at the time??    bill   -- aJ Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   r   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 09 May 2002 06:58:09 GMTr* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>% Subject: Re: Sun to use AMD chips ...nC Message-ID: <56pC8.115431$Ii2.10419128@bin2.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>   5 "Bob Ceculski" <bob@instantwhip.com> wrote in messageo7 news:d7791aa1.0205081207.2967422f@posting.google.com...m1 > well Andrew, I guess your sparc team ran out ofp/ > new ideas beyond running 80,000 chip boxes ton) > keep up w/EV7 ... from the inquirer ...s >A >n > Sun will use AMD Opteronsr  G Ah!  So there *is* another competent system vendor left in the industryaK besides IBM. cHumPaq had better hope that Sun is only interested in HammersnK for Linux, else people will stop giving talk about 'Slowlaris' any credenceu; whatsoever (especially in comparisons with Itanic systems).t  H Of course, since UltraSPARC II didn't seem to have all that much troubleE attracting customers despite EV6 competition (less a few notable HPTCeH losses, but we saw how much good *they* did in keeping Alpha alive), andH since UltraSPARC III improves upon UltraSPARC II at least as much as EV7I improves upon EV6, I doubt that Sun would be exactly quaking in its bootsiI over the prospect of having to compete with EV7 even if Alpha hadn't beenlI fatally wounded last year.  Nor does Itanic look particularly threateningt? (still waiting for those McKinley performance numbers, though).h  G But killer high-performance, low-cost, expandible 64-bit Hammer/SolarissE systems would be a *great* entry-level complement to the high-end (32pJ processors and up) systems where Sun makes most of its money anyway.  ThisH is, after all, *exactly* what many people right here in c.o.v. have beenD saying (for over a decade) was what VMS needed.  And while Hammer isL little-endian and big brother SPARC runs Solaris big-endian, Sun already hasD plenty of experience with little-endian Solaris on IA32, so is in an+ excellent position to handle the situation.s  L And, of course, there's the small matter of AMD now having a credible serverJ vendor for MP Hammer systems, eliminating the main argument many have beenL making that Hammer would never be able to get its (very substantial) foot inJ that door to establish a beachhead while Itanic sinks offshore.  BeginningI to look like a real can of whup-ass may be opening up (or, to borrow fromtA Itanic 2's namesake, perhaps an assassin is poised to strike...)..  L It's encouraging to see things start turning out the way I expected them to.J But it's downright exhilarating to see them start turning out the way theyI *ought* to.  I only hope that HPQ is well and truly fucked quickly enough15 that its worthwhile shards will still be salvageable.l   - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 09 May 2002 18:19:38 +0100wU From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <andrew_nospam.harrison_remove_this@sun#.com> % Subject: Re: Sun to use AMD chips ... 0 Message-ID: <abeb3a$9s1$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>  # Wow smoking gun when there is none.C  3 Sun has have a long standing relationship with AMD.t  2 The SunPCI x86 card used to use AMD processors and3 the Cobalt RAQ and Cube products also have used AMD  processors (Sun owns Cobalt).m  2 I cannot comment on what Sun is doing with AMD but4 we do have a family of x86/Linux boxes and AMD would1 be a strong competitor to Intel for the processor- design win in them.:  2 And Sun customer of prospective customer who wants/ more information on the roadmap only has to ask. for an NDA.n   Regards  Andrew Harrison4       Bob Ceculski wrote:Z  1 > well Andrew, I guess your sparc team ran out of./ > new ideas beyond running 80,000 chip boxes to0) > keep up w/EV7 ... from the inquirer ...v >  >  > Sun will use AMD Opterons  >  > Sock'it'to'em Scott ' > By Eva Glass, 08/05/2002 20:18:48 BSTs > F > I TOOK A TRIP over to Old Blighty last weekend - my, oh my, that old  > place really needs a shake up.E > But on my travels I met someone from Sun Microsystems who tipped me0; > the wink about the "close connection" between it and AMD.  > A > He told me, and said that I should keep it quiet, that Sun willaF > definitely use Opterons when the CPUs formerly known as Sledgehammer	 > launch.: > < > Better than that - Sun will sell boxes containing multiple) > Sledgehammers under its own brand name.9 > E > What are the reasons for this? It's not, believe me, anything to dotG > with the fact that Sun's roadmaps are, how can I say, pie-in-the-sky.  > H > And it's certainly not anything to do with the fact that Sun and Intel1 > are to love and marriage like arsenic and lace.y > H > Nor is it because Scott McNealy wants to stick one to Michael Dell and > his famous corporation.e > F > And it's nothing to do with the fact that Sun doesn't like Microsoft > very much. > D > As for Compaq and HP - never mind the flailing Big Blue, well theyF > don't come into Sun's calculations. So it's nothing to do with that. > F > No. It's for all of these reasons. And also because the Opteron chipE > seems to perform very well under tests carried out in the locale oft > Sun's HQ.  >    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 09 May 2002 08:16:32 -0400x5 From: David Beatty <David.Beatty@qwertysasasdfgh.com> ! Subject: Re: sync time in clustert2 Message-ID: <VmjaPPq0PQzbP7Rlr=x1ntie32tC@4ax.com>  = I mean write a quick little self-submitting batch job to takel; care of it.  You could set it to run daily, hourly, or somei: other interval, it's up to you.  I would recommend no less often than daily.y   David   @ On Wed, 8 May 2002 13:03:21 -0700, "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> wrote:   >i >  >>-----Original Message-----> >>From: David Beatty [mailto:David.Beatty@qwertysasasdfgh.com]( >>Sent: Wednesday, May 08, 2002 12:40 PM >>To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Come# >>Subject: Re: sync time in clustera >> >> >>& >>Have the node that runs NTP perform: >> >>$ MCR SYSMAN >>SYSMAN> SET ENVIR/CLUSTERA >>SYSMAN> CONFIG SET TIME  >> >>on a regular basis.t >  >You don't mean manually?  >s >> >>Davidn >>B >>On Wed, 8 May 2002 10:42:48 -0700, "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> >>wrote: >>A >>>I run ntp under tcpip5.1 on one node.  How can the other nodesr1 >>>be served this time without having to run ntp?v >>>---) >>>Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.m= >>>Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). B >>>Version: 6.0.360 / Virus Database: 199 - Release Date: 5/7/2002 >> >>--- ( >>Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.< >>Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).A >>Version: 6.0.360 / Virus Database: 199 - Release Date: 5/7/2002h >> >---' >Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.t; >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).i@ >Version: 6.0.360 / Virus Database: 199 - Release Date: 5/7/2002   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 9 May 2002 05:42:01 -0700# From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com>g! Subject: RE: sync time in cluster 9 Message-ID: <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIKECKEPAA.tom@kednos.com>e  * Matt,  You might also get the doc team to:/ 1.  Make search work in ODL running on windows.,? 2.  Allow ODL for VMS and Tru64 to coexist.  If you try install =     one and the other other, the second overwrites the first,."     They have the same names, duh.   >-----Original Message-----o6 >From: Matt Muggeridge [mailto:Matt.Muggeridge@hp.com]& >Sent: Wednesday, May 08, 2002 5:39 PM >To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com" >Subject: Re: sync time in cluster >a >C' >>Why is there no HELP on it, I wonder?l >  >$ help tcpip ntp  > L >Admittedly, it doesn't mention how to create the foreign symbol or describeG >ntpdate in any detail.  I have entered a note to our doc team on that.m >  >Matt. >--v> >------------------------------------------------------------- >OpenVMS TCP/IP Engineeringl >Enterprise Computing Groupu >Hewlett Packard Company >Gold Coast, AUSTRALIA> >------------------------------------------------------------- >- >-/ >"Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> wrote in message-4 >news:CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJICEBLEPAA.tom@kednos.com...C >> Ooops.  I tried finding first in ODL, but, of course, that neverH6 >> works right.  Why is there no HELP on it, I wonder? >> >> >-----Original Message-----9 >> >From: Peter LANGSTOEGER [mailto:peter@langstoeger.at]e) >> >Sent: Wednesday, May 08, 2002 3:19 PMn >> >To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Coms% >> >Subject: RE: sync time in clustern >> > >> >B >> >In article <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIGEBIEPAA.tom@kednos.com>, "Tom$ >> >Linden" <tom@kednos.com> writes:D >> >>It doesn't appear to be a complete implementation.  There is noD >> >>ntpdate.  It runs on Tru64, but not VMS, and I thought they had >> >>a common code base. >> > >> >They have. >> >% >> >TCPIP: ntpdate :== $TCPIP$NTPDATE ) >> >TCPware: ntpdate :== $TCPWARE:NTPDATEw >> > >> >Look again, it is there... >> > >> >-- >> >Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER.) >> >Network and OpenVMS system specialist   >> >E-mail  peter@langstoeger.atC >> >A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm looking for (a) Networko >> >_and_ VMS Job(s) >> > >> >---n* >> >Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.> >> >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).C >> >Version: 6.0.360 / Virus Database: 199 - Release Date: 5/7/2002a >> > >> ---) >> Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. = >> Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). B >> Version: 6.0.360 / Virus Database: 199 - Release Date: 5/7/2002 >> >s >  >---' >Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.n; >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). @ >Version: 6.0.360 / Virus Database: 199 - Release Date: 5/7/2002 >n --- & Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.: Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).? Version: 6.0.360 / Virus Database: 199 - Release Date: 5/7/2002:   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 09 May 2002 10:38:00 -0400t% From: Jim Agnew <agnew@mail2.vcu.edu>y! Subject: Re: sync time in clusterg- Message-ID: <3CDA89C8.ED1929ED@mail2.vcu.edu>o   I use the following...   A::JIM>type time.com( $ @NEURO$DISK:[JIM.SYSADMIN]TIME-NBS.COM7 $ @NEURO$DISK:[JIM.SYSADMIN]TIME-NBS.COM "REALLY DO IT"r( $ @NEURO$DISK:[JIM.SYSADMIN]TIME-NBS.COM $ EXIT A::JIM>type time-nbs.com $ SETUP NBS  $ SAVE_VERIFY :=< "((""''F$ENVIRONMENT(""VERIFY_PROCEDURE"")'"".EQS.""TRUE""),G (""''F$ENVIRONMENT(""VERIFY_IMAGE"")'"".EQS.""TRUE""))" ! 'F$VERIFY(0)'r !uD !note this ONE line before this 4 line comment is to be a one-liner, turns off verify5 ! and does it quietly.. thanks to bob langford at VCU. !  $ SET VERIFY! $ SET PROCESS/PRIVILEGE=(readall)i $ IF P1 .EQS. "REALLY DO IT" $   THEN) $     SET PROCESS/PRIVILEGE=(OPER,LOG_IO)g0 $!      NBS -N "0 5:00"         ! Standard Time.8 $!      NBS -N "0 4:00"         ! Daylight Savings Time.8 $       NBS -N "0 4:00"         ! Daylight Savings Time. $     SET TIME $     SET TIME/CLUSTER $   ELSE0 $!      NBS -N -C "0 5:00"      ! Standard Time.8 $!      NBS -N -C "0 4:00"      ! Daylight Savings Time.8 $       NBS -N -C "0 4:00"      ! Daylight Savings Time. $ ENDIF4" $ IF SAVE_VERIFY  THEN  SET VERIFY $ SET NOVERIFY $ EXIT A::JIM>c   and then dos  0 $ SET TIME /CLUSTER ! To set the cluster's time H $ SET TIME ! no arguments writes the time to the disk for the next boot, to set the TOY
 		! clock.   Tom Linden wrote:o > @ > I run ntp under tcpip5.1 on one node.  How can the other nodes0 > be served this time without having to run ntp? > --- ( > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.< > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).A > Version: 6.0.360 / Virus Database: 199 - Release Date: 5/7/2002l   ------------------------------   Date: 9 May 2002 10:46 CDT' From: carl@gerg.tamu.edu (Carl Perkins)a! Subject: RE: sync time in clustere, Message-ID: <9MAY200210465484@gerg.tamu.edu>  ' "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> writes...t& }>Have the node that runs NTP perform: }> }>$ MCR SYSMAN }>SYSMAN> SET ENVIR/CLUSTERe }>SYSMAN> CONFIG SET TIME  }> }>on a regular basis.e }  }You don't mean manually?   ) Do it manullay whenever you feel like it.f  2 But I would suggest you put it in a batch job that3 resubmits itself every time it runs and have it run  once or twice a day.   --- Carl   ------------------------------    Date: 10 May 2002 00:53:00 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>! Subject: Re: sync time in clusteru- Message-ID: <87n0v9p8k3.fsf@prep.synonet.com>e  % "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> writes:l  D > Thanks, Next question, what is the best way to run this command at > regular intervals?  D Run NTP. Really, simple, and 'just works'. Well, most of the time :)B You do need to start it up with the system time about right, or itB will shoot itself and exit. NTP reallly does NOT want to step your? clock, and wants to smoothly adjust the time. Also, once it hask= synced and got the clock lined up, it backs off its activity.i   -- e< Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda. @                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------    Date: 10 May 2002 00:03:42 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>& Subject: Time for comp.sys.hp.vms? SSA- Message-ID: <87adr9qpep.fsf@prep.synonet.com>s   -- .< Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.-@                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 09 May 2002 12:59:01 -0000h From: sword7@speakeasy.org' Subject: TS10/VAX, DHV11, and Jnet/VAX.p/ Message-ID: <udkskld1epr118@corp.supernews.com>h   Hello folks:  H Good news! After I fixed many bugs in TS10/VAX emulator, OpenVMS now is C running stable.  Also, I implemented DELQA and DHV11 emulation into A my TS10 emulator.  However, I still have some problems with DELQAlA and DHV11.  I am working on them in progress.  Thank you for your 2 help and to Kevin Hardy for extensively debugging.  D Does anyone have specs about modem controls like DCD, DSR, DTR, etc?D I am figuring out how modem control works.  I tried telnet into TS10F through DHV11, but OpenVMS did not response.  OpenVMS recognized DHV11B and created TXA0 to TXA7 devices according to 'Show Device' on DCL prompt on TS10/VAX emulator.  I Also, I ceaselessly still am looking for Jnet/VAX v3.x software for SEND eI and RECEIVE commands.  Wingra told me that this product was discontinued tF some time ago.  I do not want to see that product goes being extinct.  (sp?)1  , If so, I would appericate that.  Thank you!!   -- Tim Stark   -- c, Timothy Stark	<><	Inet: sword7@speakeasy.orgJ --------------------------------------------------------------------------F "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that H whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.. Amen." -- John 3:16 (King James Version Bible)   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 09 May 2002 11:56:41 +0200  From: Dirk Munk <munk@home.nl> Subject: Re: USB on OpenVMSc& Message-ID: <3CDA47D9.8010403@home.nl>   Fred Kleinsorge wrote:, > Eh?  What's a two-cylinder VSXXX-AA mouse? > L > The mouse will be a standard 3-button USB mouse.  As an added bonus, I putM > support for the thumbwheel in for anyone that wants to plug in a thumbwheely > mouse.  F Does this mean I can connect a thumbweel mouse to the ps-2 port of my - PWS500 too ? From which version VMS / Motif ?lE That would be very nice, I could scroll through the messages in this e
 newsgroup.     >  > I > Bob Koehler wrote in message <6uucwnynhU9X@eisner.encompasserve.org>...h > J >>In article <00A0D857.3BA051BD@SendSpamHere.ORG>, system@SendSpamHere.ORG > 	 > writes:" >  >>>eF >>>Will there be LK style keyboards available hanging off of these USB >> > ports? > 7 >>  How about a nice two-cylinder VSXXX-AA style mouse?  >> >  >  >    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 09 May 2002 15:35:51 GMTn1 From: Forrest Kenney <Forrest.Kenney@hp.com.doom>| Subject: Re: USB on OpenVMSi* Message-ID: <3CDA95D0.72F6EE2@hp.com.doom>  ` None of the built in USB controllers either work correctly with the USB code supplied in V7.3-1._ The add in card that I mentioned in an earlier post works fine and should work in any Alpha box c with a correctly functioning PCI bus.  Understand that if you add one of these cards to your systemg[ and experience problem the support centers will remind you that you are running unsupported,K hardware.  We would still like to hear about bugs and will fix when we can.      Forrest Kenney  OpenVMS group USB project leader   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 09 May 2002 17:30:14 GMTt5 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com>i Subject: Re: USB on OpenVMSv9 Message-ID: <GmyC8.22$s07.401569@cacnews.cac.cpqcorp.net>i  G No.  I added it only for USB.  It was easy, it's just another axis on aI pointing device.  L I've never seen the spec for a PS2 thumbwheel mouse, or if it is possible toG detect it's presence (as opposed to any other type of mouse).  The PS-2A mouse design was abysmal.r      8 Dirk Munk wrote in message <3CDA47D9.8010403@home.nl>... >Fred Kleinsorge wrote:t- >> Eh?  What's a two-cylinder VSXXX-AA mouse?i >>I >> The mouse will be a standard 3-button USB mouse.  As an added bonus, Ia put C >> support for the thumbwheel in for anyone that wants to plug in as
 thumbwheel	 >> mouse.M >nF >Does this mean I can connect a thumbweel mouse to the ps-2 port of my. >PWS500 too ? From which version VMS / Motif ?E >That would be very nice, I could scroll through the messages in thiso >newsgroup.s >s >e >> >>J >> Bob Koehler wrote in message <6uucwnynhU9X@eisner.encompasserve.org>... >>K >>>In article <00A0D857.3BA051BD@SendSpamHere.ORG>, system@SendSpamHere.ORGd >>
 >> writes: >> >>>>G >>>>Will there be LK style keyboards available hanging off of these USBs >>>n	 >> ports?i >>8 >>>  How about a nice two-cylinder VSXXX-AA style mouse? >>>i >> >> >> >t >s   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 09 May 2002 10:41:59 +0100c( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1>& Subject: Re: VAX 4000/600A help needed) Message-ID: <3CDA4467.7B9BBD76@127.0.0.1>   
 Luca_B wrote:v > J > the trick is that the edge connector of the RF36's sled  to mount in theN > SF36-BE cabinet is physically the same as the one in the VAX 4000 but when IJ > unmounted it I've discovered that the electrical connections are not the > same.  > 3 > The problem now is to find a sled for the drives.y   Where are you based?  F I *may* have a spare one knocking about but I'm in a state of upheavalG at the moment so I couldn't confirm for a week, or two or, whenever the1D dynamic duo of estate agents I'm dealing with decide to talk to eachA other, not that I'm bitter about it ! They work for the same firm0 though. :-/n  H Speaking of which, I'll be sampling bitter in Reading on the 28th... UK. CUO-UK.c   -- S( Regards, Nic Clews CSC Computer Sciences nclews at csc dot com.   ------------------------------   Date: 9 May 02 09:35:23 +0200l) From: p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture) + Subject: Re: VMS 6.2 file ownership problemd) Message-ID: <2pZbYBmzJVa9@elias.decus.ch>e  [ In article <3CD341BC.BCAE6F19@fsi.net>, "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> writes:t > Paul Sture wrote:  >> 6v >> In article <Y7Sz8.8$fS1.173180@cacnews.cac.cpqcorp.net>, hammond@not@peek.ppb.cpqcorp.net (Charlie Hammond) writes:, >> > In article <3CCF5057.4C715738@fsi.net>,8 >> > "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> writes: >> >J >> >>What always goofed me up about that was because I could, the softwareK >> >>did, without me so specifying. Wish I could have had more control over . >> >>it without dropping/resetting privileges. >> >E >> > If you run with privs on by default, you are asking for trouble.8D >> > With privs on, it is just TOO EASY to do something "bad" beforeB >> > you realize it.  I have caused myself worse problems than you3 >> > describe by forgettting I had privs turned on!h >> >@ >> > I have defined two symbols to turn privs on and off easily: >> > >> > PEEK> sho sym privt" >> >   PRIV == "SET PROC/PRIV=ALL" >> > PEEK> sho sym deprivt6 >> >   DEPRIV == "SET PROC/PRIV=(NOALL,NETMBX,TMPMBX)" >> >L >> > Other's have a "PRIV" command that re-sets the "$" (or whatever) prompt; >> > to something else that reminds you of having privs on.f >> i- >> FWIW, I have the following symbol defined:h >> f? >> $ mypriv :== set proc/priv=(noall,'f$getjpi("","AUTHPRIV")')  > E > ...which is fine so long as your AUTHPRIV string is not excessively  > long.v > N Mine is not. I take it from your response that yours is somewhat longer than I prefer. :-)t   __
 Paul Sture Switzerlands   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 09 May 2002 12:07:26 GMT'( From: spam@devnull.com (Russell Wallace)1 Subject: Re: VMS Bigots Unite To Form New Company,0 Message-ID: <3cda6614.606960572@news.eircom.net>  E On 05 May 2002 03:54:59 +0800, Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>. wrote:  C >Let me give you a slight clue; bussinesses don't give a shit aboutr >'standard' they want 'work.  E For the high end, as I said, you're right; that's why pushing Windows2. for big database servers is a losing strategy.  > For the low end, the relative sales figures for Windows versusA everything else would tend to support my point. (Furthermore, theiD biggest 'everything else' is Linux, which is also neither secure nor
 reliable.)   --  3 "Mercy to the guilty is treachery to the innocent."w! http://www.esatclear.ie/~rwallaced mail:rw(at)eircom(dot)net    ------------------------------   Date: 9 May 2002 06:25:50 -0700i( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)9 Subject: Re: What is good model for disk i/o w/shadowing?>< Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0205090525.831cfd9@posting.google.com>  b bleau@umtof.umd.edu (Lawrence Bleau) wrote in message news:<abcf20$kgp$1@grapevine.wam.umd.edu>...M > Hello.  I'm running OpenVMS AXP V7.1-2 and have never used volume shadowing>Q > before.  I am considering how I can convince my boss to let me use them to helpdL > him.  We are not clustered, have just a standalone system with quite a fewH > disks, all of which are directly connected SCSI disks (no HSJ, no dualP > controller).  Most of the disks' contents are fairly static, but the user diskL > is fairly active.  I'm trying to build a case for shadowing the user disk. > N > I thought this was going to be straightforward, but ran into a snag with theQ > boss as soon as I raised the idea.  He said: "What?  That would make all writesg> > take twice as long."  I could tell he didn't like that idea. >  > Lawrence Bleau > University of Maryland$ > Physics Dept., Space Physics Group > 301-405-6223 > bleau@umtof.umd.eduo  F we run volume shadowing on vms 7.1-2, and I guarantee it does not takeA twice as long ... the volume shadowing manual specifically states7  B "Overall, the performance of a shadow set in steady state compares? favorably with a nonshadowed disk.  Read and write I/O requestseD processed by the shadow set utilize a very small amount of extra CPUC processing time as  compared with a nonshadowed disk.  A shadow settF can often process read requests more efficently then can a nonshadowedC disk because it can use the additional heads to respond to multipleM read requests simultaneously."  C And during copy operations, if there are requests waiting, the copy3A manages those requests in between the copy operation so you don'trD even notice it going on ... the simple fact is, volume shadowing canA prevent loss of data, plus keep you running if one disk fails ... C Your bosses assesment is wrong, and I suggest you obtain if not the B manual from the internet if possible and turn to chapter 8 and letD him read it for himself.  Volume shadowing is very efficent and will. keep your disk going, and going just like vms!   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 09 May 2002 10:34:11 +0100-( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1>? Subject: Re: Why is security so important in a VMS environment?P) Message-ID: <3CDA4293.CA0683D3@127.0.0.1>n   Martin Vorlaender wrote: > $ > John Smith (a@nonymous.com) wrote:@ > > To be fair, unix has had security mechanisms since its early( > > days, yet they were not always used. > J > But these mechanisms weren't always very well designed, the best exampleF > being the world readable /etc/passwd file. Later they kludged shadow > passwords on top of that.O   UNIX is a kludge.o   --  ( Regards, Nic Clews CSC Computer Sciences nclews at csc dot comr   ------------------------------    Date: 09 May 2002 23:25:25 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>? Subject: Re: Why is security so important in a VMS environment?:- Message-ID: <87vg9xqr6i.fsf@prep.synonet.com>a  7 "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> writes:.  C > David J. Dachtera wrote in message <3CD7379F.865C6A0A@fsi.net>...M > >Rich wrote:  7 > >> Why is security so important in a VMS environment?A  F > >Security is important in *ANY* environment. In VMS, however, it wasE > >designed in from the start, not added on as an after thought as isy$ > >the case with Micro$lop and UN*X.  	 > Agreed.>  ? Another two important factors. First, DEC put lots of tim in to ? various DODs around the planet, as well as DOE and NASA and thekB rest. When WANK and Mitnik ran riot, there was LOTS of pressure toB improve, and to do it fast.  Second, lots of the gear was on fixedC price support contracts. The more bugs, the more calls and cost DECvE had to carry, so the bean counters want a high quakity, low bug countaF product. If you are raping the luzers plastic with every bug, you want: it as bad as possible, short of him leaving for the enemy.  tD > >> Why did VMS become a dominant Operating System in the early 80s* > >> and 90s and then fall into obscurity?   > >Say: "marketing".  
 > Simplistic.   ? Stupidity. Plain straight stupidity. DEC owned the campuses andgA colleges.  Others spent a fortune to try to break in, and in mostwE cases just plain flopped. Then DEC pulled the rug out from under withMF charges, and many places *HAD NO CHOICE* but to forget VMS and soldierF on with BSD. Or try to. BSD back then was *real* ugly. Almost everyoneC I knew much prefered RSTS or Tops-10. But, the budgets could not be.F streched to pay for VMS at full hit, less volume discount. If they hadF a few years warning, then possibly they could have padded the kitty soC it was possible. So good bye edu, and give the wages of unix a HUGEt push.a  oD > The VAX and VMS came about during a time when the "super-mini" wasD > stealing new business from the traditional mainframe market.  MostF > customers were using custom written software, and they had their ownD > programming departments.  It was fast, and reliable.  It had great > tools, and libraries.s  mC > Where did it all go wrong?  Well, the VAX architecture ran out of-A > gas.  RISC systems came along that were faster and cheaper.  At C > first this just pulled away the technical market - who could copevA > with the obscurity and unreliability of UNIX, because what theyEA > needed was *speed*.  Then the commercial side started to erode.s  E Designing a fast Vax is a real adventure. `The industry' all put DECsdD designers and CAD tools as the best, by a good margin. (And the ZMOSF process for CPUs was also widely considered the best). The 780 and 750D where stranded for way longer than intended. Venus was WAY late, andF had to be totally scrapped and re-done from the tools up. So even withB the 785, then the uV-II the Vax lagged the early 68K machines with> unix and a 'lets pretend we page like a Vax' shim. Do you codeB generator, get the pager sorted and a `few details' and vola! UnixE d'jour!! And the unis slurped up every one they could because i) they.D where in the $$ target area, ii) came from uni people (sort of), and0 iii) ran unix just like our old 780 and stuff...  F (So all you folk who did not see this era, the 'bend over and give outG to bill with everything' is NOT a new idea! Just the old way retreaded.   D >  VMS stubbornly clung to the VAX architecture until it had alreadyF > begun a substantial slide in new sales - the architecture that couldB > have been the basis of VMS's replacement was cancelled, and it's8 > architect took his marbles to Microsoft, and wrote NT.  D This is Prism? Took DEC's marbles please... Spelling errors and all.  ? > DEC neglected the educational market that it was once big in,eD > assuming it was simply a profit center - and igoring the fact thatB > it is also primary indoctination for the future high-priests andD > decision makers.  The replacement architecture for VAX (Alpha) wasD > started too late, and wasn't binary compatable, and in a decliningD > market - many ISV's chose not to move to the new architecture.  AtE > the same time, the joke x86 architecture started eating things from D > the bottom up.  Yes, it was a joke - but anybody could afford one,4 > and lots of useful software started being written.  C "The attack of the killer micros" Go look in comp.arch, and see theeC discussion. Meanwile, back at the Mill, DEC was pricing them selvesuF into orbit, and pulled the greatest infamy of all. After much promises@ and fine words, they killed OSF/1 on SPIM and orphaned a raft ofC people who had set their plans and spent on the new DECstations. At B that, DECs largest non-gov customer instituted a no DEC ever againE policy and started swinging to Sun. The now ship hundreds of millions ; worth of gear, and not on cent of DEC/Q to be seen. Duhhh..   F > Entire businesses could run on out-of-the-box software on a handfullB > of decentralized PCs, instead of having a programming staff, and" > centralized computing resources.  H Drag out a 386 and a 3100-30, and put the MB next to each other. What doH you think the relative costs are *for the same volume*? Who had faith in% their design and the determination...n  !? > When the VAX and VMS started to falter, DEC became unfocused.uC > Instead of having an entire corporation that knew exactly what toyD > sell (VAX/VMS), it went into a mode of trying to figure out how toD > replace VAX/VMS.  UNIX, Windows, NT - we spread our resources thatD > once were focused on VAX/VMS into trying to be-all to everyone andF > everything, succeeding at none (few) of them.  Something internal toD > DEC also helped things along.  When VMS was the 800-lb gorilla, itF > threw it's weight around in the company, and made many enemies along5 > the way.  When it slipped, the knives all came out.S  A Every year, KO got up at the AGM and said, ``This year we grew at E thirty<mumble> percent. We must slow you growth or it will kill us.''i
 He was right.i  nA > So.  Now we are here with a still good/great basic OS product -iC > which still has many of the more popular OS's beat in reliability F > and functionality.  But it has shrunk to a small market.  But's it'sC > a little like a BetaMax VCR in a world full of VHS.  It's better,-@ > but the competition is cheaper, more available, and is gettingF > better all the time - and it's where all the new media comes out forC > (and you have to copy someones VHS tape to Beta to use it on your- > machine).-  -D > The good news, is that the "media" is changing, and becomming lessF > architecture and OS specific - JAVA and web enabled technologies areE > beginning to make the underlying architecture transparent.  So, the B > qualities of VMS that make it secure and reliable, may make it aD > choice for a new generation.  We have a way to go in some areas to@ > make this a reality, but we're on our way... and the CPU isn'tB > really important to us either.  Alpha or IA64.  It's just a CPU.  D VMS has been put on death row. No new customers for 2 1/2 - 3 years.D So how many ISV will still be around? What are they going to live onA and how will they fund porting to the donkey? Hope enough currentnB customers hang around? Or go talk to IBM tomorrow, and Sun and SGI
 next week.  ? I fear you are in for a very bleek winter Fred. And none of youg! deserve that, not one little bit.    --  < Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda. @                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 09 May 2002 16:48:33 GMTn0 From: Jeffrey Chimene <jeff.nospam@systasis.net>? Subject: Re: Why is security so important in a VMS environment?g, Message-ID: <3CDAAC50.BD53E88E@systasis.net>  ) One other point that's worth emphasizing:o  E Security was important to DEC - not just in their VMS product, but in,@ all their multi-user/timesharing environments. The term "hostileD environment" for a computing system in an educational setting didn'tF orginate w/ VAX/VMS. I first saw it w/r/t RSTS/E twenty years ago. I'mF sure the idea predates that reference in the documentation. If someoneH can resurrect some RSX-11/M documentation, the system management sectionG probably refers to that term.  I don't remember what the pdp-8 OS (e.g.IF COS-310) used - I think it was simply login based, nothing much beyond that.f  G Also, the military was a significant DEC customer. Many lessons learnedoH from developing products for that environment found their way into VAX / Alpha software.1   -- microsoft free by 2003   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 9 May 2002 10:10:23 +0200( From: "Bruin, J.M. de" <Bruin@WT.TNO.NL> Subject: RE: X-Win32C Message-ID: <86BE4031AD3CD611AC170008C7F37BC2472ACA@wt15.wt.tno.nl>l  O AS stated in earlier mails, I have had some problems and troubles setting it ups" but in the end it is quite simple.N I've made a DCL command procedure commonly available to all users to start theF decw session manager and I use the vue library procedures to start theP applications. I even copied some vue procedures and adapted them for my own use.  O The session manager procedure starts the X session on the display the procedure  is started from.  E Works fine! I never have to 'know' which PC I am running X-Win 32 on.r   Mark   -----Original Message------ From: Bob Marcan [mailto:bob.marcan@aster.si]   Sent: donderdag 9 mei 2002 02:24 To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com  Subject: Re: X-Win32     "Stanley F. Quayle" wrote: >  > > Fred Zwarts wrote: > > >AE > > >  In my job we are using X-Win32 to connect in our Sun machines,eA > > >  and Id like know if I can use X-win32 to connect with ourtD > > >  VAXes machines. Reading X-win32 help I didnt find references > > >  about VMS systems.  >  > Here's what I do:r > 7 > - Set up a session to use "rexec", with a command of:  >         "@sys$login:xwin *"s > D > - In the SYS$LOGIN (initial default directory) of the user, create. >   the following command procedure, XWIN.COM: >  > $ SET NOVERIFY2 > $user = f$edit(f$getjpi("", "USERNAME"), "TRIM"). > $node = f$edit(f$trnlnm("sys$node"), "TRIM") > $if p1 .eqs. "*" > $ then7 > $  binary_ip = f$logical("sys$rem_node") - "::" - "_" # > $  octet_1 = binary_ip .and. %xFFl/ > $  octet_2 = (binary_ip .and. %xFF00) / %x100.3 > $  octet_3 = (binary_ip .and. %xFF0000) / %x10000c6 > $  octemp = (binary_ip .and. %xFF000000) / %x1000000  > $  octet_4 = octemp .and. %xFF7 > $  p1 = "''octet_1'.''octet_2'.''octet_3'.''octet_4'"j > $endif# > $if p2 .eqs. "" then p2 = "WHITE"g# > $if p3 .eqs. "" then p3 = "BLACK"  > $if p4 .eqs. "" then p4 = 30 > $if p5 .eqs. "" then p5 = 40% > $if p6 .eqs. "" then p6 = "''user'"S% > $if p7 .eqs. "" then p7 = "DEFAULT"8 > $open/write f1 xterm.com > $write f1 "$WAIT 00:00:2.00"F > $write f1 "$SET DISPLAY/CREATE/NODE=",p1,"/TRANSPORT=TCPIP/SERVER=0"+ > $write f1 "$CREATE/TERM=DECTERM/DETACH -"s0 > $write f1 "  /WINDOW=(BACKGROUND=""''p2'"", -"0 > $write f1            "FOREGROUND=""''p3'"", -", > $write f1            "X_POSITION=''p4', -", > $write f1            "Y_POSITION=''p5', -"2 > $write f1            "TITLE=""''node'''p6'"", -"0 > $write f1            "ICON=""''node'''p6'"", -$ > $write f1            "FONT=''p7')" > $close f1O > $ set noonA > $ if f$search ("XTERM.COM") .nes. "" then purge/nolog/noconfirmr > xterm.comhA > $ if f$search ("XTERM.LOG") .nes. "" then purge/nolog/noconfirm  > xterm.logeA > $ if f$search ("XTERM.ERR") .nes. "" then purge/nolog/noconfirm> > xterm.errt > $run /detached - >         /input=xterm.com - >         /output=xterm.log -= >         /error=xterm.err -% >                 sys$system:loginoutI >  > --Stan Quaylet# > President, Quayle Consulting Inc.t >  > ----------I > Stanley F. Quayle, P.E.   N8SQ   +1 614-868-1363   Fax: +1 614 868-1671y3 > 8572 North Spring Ct. NW, Pickerington, OH  43147n? > Preferred address:  stan@stanq.com       http://www.stanq.coma  * Fine. This is the 2**64 way to solve this. What if the server is not 0 ?      -- o@  Bob Marcan                           mailto:bob.marcan@aster.si?  Aster                                tel:    +386 (1) 5894-329 ?  Nade Ovcakove 1                      fax:    +386 (1) 5894-201s@  1000 Ljubljana, Slovenia                    http://www.aster.si   ------------------------------    Date: 09 May 2002 22:31:23 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>6 Subject: Re: [OT] Re: UK folks this might interest you- Message-ID: <87znz9qtok.fsf@prep.synonet.com>y  6 Doc.Cypher <Use-Author-Address-Header@[127.1]> writes:  * > You've been to GuyLian as well then? :-)  D Oh yes :) Putting a chockie shop on the main drag from the square to# the station is *evil* and not PC...e  E One of my daughters was born at the St Niklaas Hosp, and that is onlynA a hundred metres or so from the town shop. Can't remember exactly-) where the factory on the edge of town is.e   -- n< Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.0@                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------   Date: 9 May 2002 09:10:27 GMTk- From: djweath@attglobal.net (Dave Weatherall)u@ Subject: Re: [SURVEY] would you use CHARON-ia64 if there is one?5 Message-ID: <DTiotGxQ0bj6-pn2-Fx5H8MHrB00i@localhost>   0 On Wed, 8 May 2002 09:14:13 UTC, Didier Morandi  <Didier.Morandi@Free.fr> wrote:   L > I know that many VAX users use CHARON-VAX on Alpha or PC to continue theirO > development or use products which have no VMS/Alpha version. Would you use aneU > eventual CHARON-ia64 product should an Alpha-only version not be available on ia64?. >  > [X] yes, I would > [ ] no > [ ] what is CHARON-VAX?a  D This assumes that I get my VAX/ELN system running on a target board > also running Charon and hence still need a platform to do VAX C development of the code. This in turn assumes that our current VMS y= Alpha/VAX environment was all gone. It doesn't mean that the 2# management would give us the money.v  F I have been too busy to actually try Charon yet. I have downloaded the hobby/lite/evaluation version.   -- c Cheers - Dave.   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 09 May 2002 10:00:00 GMTa. From: peter@langstoeger.at (Peter LANGSTOEGER)7 Subject: Re: [V5.1 ECO 3] NTP doesn't start up reliabley5 Message-ID: <AMrC8.200664$vc2.2288997@news.chello.at>d  ] In article <3cd9c0aa.850268671@news.wcc.govt.nz>, rob.buxton@wcc.govt.nz (Rob Buxton) writes:nM >My guess is that tcpip$ntp_conf is being defined somewhere in your startups.iE >When tcpip$ntp_startup runs at Boot time, it checks for the presencetD >of this logical. If it doesn't find it it defines it to where you'd% >expect - in sys$specific:[tcpip$ntp]n@ >If it finds a logical already defined it will NOT re-define it. >vE >The ntp shutdown procedure does a deassign of this logical. So, whens? >you run this followed by the startup it works as you'd expect.u >fC >Check you're not defining this in sylogicals or somewhere similar.i   You won a cigar !!  : So, now I've to find why this logical was defined wrong or( better yet, why it was defined at all...   Many Thanks    -Peter   -- a Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGERm% Network and OpenVMS system specialistu E-mail  peter@langstoeger.atP A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm looking for (a) Network _and_ VMS Job(s)   ------------------------------    Date: 10 May 2002 00:43:39 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>7 Subject: Re: [V5.1 ECO 3] NTP doesn't start up reliable - Message-ID: <87r8klp8zo.fsf@prep.synonet.com>w  0 peter@langstoeger.at (Peter LANGSTOEGER) writes:  ; > I just got reminded of a NTP problem I have (for months):   t* > After every boot (and TCPIP start) I get  a( >  7 May 23:44:50  ntpd version = 3-5.91P >  7 May 23:44:51  tickadj = 97, tick = 976, tvu_maxslew = 99231, est. hz = 1024' >  7 May 23:44:51  precision = 976 usecyJ > getconfig: Couldn't open <DISK$VMSSYS:[VMS$COMMON.SYSEXE]TCPIP$NTP.CONF>R >  7 May 23:44:51  getconfig: Couldn't open <DISK$VMSSYS:[VMS$COMMON.SYSEXE]TCPIP$ > NTP.CONF>m  rG > Can anyone tell me, why NTP looks for its config file in SYS$SYSTEM ?>> > It's in SYS$SPECIFIC:[TCPIP$NTP] of course and after doing a  e# > $ @SYS$STARTUP:TCPIP$NTP_SHUTDOWNa" > $ @SYS$STARTUP:TCPIP$NTP_STARTUP  r? > it is found by the NTP server and NTP is working as expected.  > M > So, do you perhaps know, why I have to start NTP twice during the startup ?m  I There is a logical that points to where the NTP config file lives, and mylJ suspicion is that if the logical is not set, it tries SYS$SYSTEM as a fall back.w   Is TCPIP$NTP_CONF defined?   -- t< Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.E@                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2002.256 ************************