1 INFO-VAX	Fri, 10 May 2002	Volume 2002 : Issue 257       Contents:& Re: Alpha to ia64: where is the issue?& Re: Alpha to ia64: where is the issue?& Re: Alpha to ia64: where is the issue?8 Anybody get the CSA/PAKGEN to generate *valid* licenses?< Re: Anybody get the CSA/PAKGEN to generate *valid* licenses?$ Re: Bob Palmer and the demise of DEC$ Re: Bob Palmer and the demise of DEC$ Re: Bob Palmer and the demise of DEC$ Re: Bob Palmer and the demise of DEC3 Re: Capellas: Linux, Windows Will 'Eviscerate' Unix 3 Re: Capellas: Linux, Windows Will 'Eviscerate' Unix 3 Re: Capellas: Linux, Windows Will 'Eviscerate' Unix 3 Re: Capellas: Linux, Windows Will 'Eviscerate' Unix 3 Re: Capellas: Linux, Windows Will 'Eviscerate' Unix   Re: CSWS / CSWB / MX Speculation  Re: CSWS / CSWB / MX Speculation  Re: CSWS / CSWB / MX Speculation  Re: CSWS / CSWB / MX Speculation Re: DCL QuestionM Re: Facts:  you ask, you get   (was:  Re: Alpha to ia64: where is the issue?) I Facts:  you ask, you get   (was:  Re: Alpha to ia64: where is the issue?) - Re: Forced migration to HPHUX - Storm Warning - Re: Forced migration to HPHUX - Storm Warning - Re: Forced migration to HPHUX - Storm Warning ) Found a new product which turn on many os 4 Re: Gartner rides again (was Re: HP Product Roadmap) Help with ?setparams.dat?  Re: Help with ?setparams.dat?  Re: Help with ?setparams.dat? " Re: HP is taking over really fast! Re: HP Product Roadmap Re: HP Product Roadmap Re: HP Product Roadmap Re: HP Product Roadmap Re: HP Product Roadmap Re: HP Product Roadmap Re: HP Product Roadmap# Re: HP Roadmap: OpenVMS, Tru64 safe 6 Re: Invalid Directory File Sequence - Best way to fix?6 Re: Invalid Directory File Sequence - Best way to fix?8 Re: MacOS/X is the leading Unix (was "Itanium Troubles")8 Re: MacOS/X is the leading Unix (was "Itanium Troubles")8 Re: MacOS/X is the leading Unix (was "Itanium Troubles")3 Microsoft's File-share Rule Makes Waves (For Samba) 7 Re: Microsoft's File-share Rule Makes Waves (For Samba)  Re: Observing HSx performances ODL bugs Re: Powered by HP  RE: Powered by HP  Re: Powered by HP  Re: Powered by HP  Re: Powered by HP  Re: Powered by HP 3 Re: Scott Stallard, forget your VMS to HP UX dream! 3 Re: Scott Stallard, forget your VMS to HP UX dream! 3 Re: Scott Stallard, forget your VMS to HP UX dream! 3 Re: Scott Stallard, forget your VMS to HP UX dream! 3 Re: Scott Stallard, forget your VMS to HP UX dream! 3 Re: Scott Stallard, forget your VMS to HP UX dream! 3 Re: Scott Stallard, forget your VMS to HP UX dream! ' Re: SKC Morphs Again... We're Now SKHPC ' Re: SKC Morphs Again... We're Now SKHPC ' Re: SKC Morphs Again... We're Now SKHPC  Re: Stallards smoking gun! Re: Stallards smoking gun! RE: Stallards smoking gun! Re: Stallards smoking gun! Re: Stallards smoking gun! Re: Stallards smoking gun! Re: Stallards smoking gun! Re: Stallards smoking gun! Re: Stallards smoking gun! Re: Stallards smoking gun! Re: sync time in cluster Re: sync time in cluster Re: Test for DRM! Re: Time for comp.sys.hp.vms? SSA ! Re: Time for comp.sys.hp.vms? SSA ! Re: Time for comp.sys.hp.vms? SSA " Re: TS10/VAX, DHV11, and Jnet/VAX.* Re: UK/EU OpenVMS job market: non-existant Re: USB on OpenVMS Re: VAX 4000/600A help needed " Re: VMS 6.2 file ownership problem VMS textfile format  Re: VMS textfile format  Re: VMS textfile format  RE: VMS textfile format 0 Where do Gartner's probabilty factors come from?4 Re: Where do Gartner's probabilty factors come from?4 Re: Where do Gartner's probabilty factors come from?4 Re: Where do Gartner's probabilty factors come from?4 Re: Where do Gartner's probabilty factors come from?4 RE: Where do Gartner's probabilty factors come from?4 Re: Where do Gartner's probabilty factors come from?6 Re: Why is security so important in a VMS environment?6 Re: Why is security so important in a VMS environment?P Write OVERHEAD in Volume Shadowing (Was:Re: What is good model for disk i/o w/sh7 Re: [SURVEY] would you use CHARON-ia64 if there is one?   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 09 May 2002 18:23:37 GMT 1 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com> / Subject: Re: Alpha to ia64: where is the issue? : Message-ID: <J8zC8.6060$Po6.388@rwcrnsc52.ops.asp.att.net>  : "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message& news:3CD914B2.E41B9C58@videotron.ca... > Where is the issue ? > J > The issue is that Compaq lied to customers when it said that Alpha could not H > keep up with IA64 and prematurely killed Alpha, knowing full well that IA64K > was technologically very inferior and very behind the ramping up compared  toI > Alpha which is at a stage in its life where it is well past ensuring it  can  > divide properly.  0 Ya know, this is really starting to get tedious.  B Compaq said that Alpha would not be able to maintain a significant4 performance advantage over IA64. Yep, they sure did.  K Do you happen to remember the TIMEFRAME in which the diminished performance L differential was supposed to show up? If so, speak up and provide citations.  0 If not, your "lie" allegations are indefensible.   > L > In lying to customers, Compaq lost their trust. And now we see through theL > propaganda they try to produce to portray IA64 as "industry standard" when. > even dead, alpha still sells more than IA64.  6 Of course Alpha sells more than IA64, at least so far.  + How many Alpha chips were sold in year one?   ) How many IPF chips were sold in year one?   L What was the high water mark for Alpha chips per year? (Hint: CPQ never soldK more than 100K Alpha systems in a year, and that number has been on the way   down for a couple of years now).  E At what point will IPF sales exceed the Alpha high water mark? Never?   I Talk is cheap. Bluster and BS is even cheaper. Let's see some facts for a  change!    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 09 May 2002 18:14:19 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> / Subject: Re: Alpha to ia64: where is the issue? , Message-ID: <3CDAF4BA.42BC85E4@videotron.ca>   Nic Clews wrote:I > Speaking personal opinion but I have grounds for making this statement, H > should IA64 not be the dogs naughty bits, the level of effort required2 > to re-port to a.n.other 64 bit will be, minimal.  2 Just as minimal as porting from Alpha to IA64 ????  F The problem is that a port is not just paying those fancy engineers toK recompile the OS onto the new target. It is also motivating all the ISVs to H spend time and money doing the same, re-certifying the product, changingM documentation etc, AND getting customers to also do similar tasks, as well as L plan a migration without any downtime for the business. This costs money and5 time to customers, even if the hardware and software.   F And as you increase the number of platforms your niche OS runs on, youL increase the costs for each ISV to maintain a copy of their software on eachI platform. Remember  that ISVs will have to continue to support ALpha well L after the first customers boot VMS on that IA64 thing (IF that happens). Add# another platform and it gets messy.    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 09 May 2002 18:27:23 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> / Subject: Re: Alpha to ia64: where is the issue? , Message-ID: <3CDAF7C9.CD3121CB@videotron.ca>   david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk wrote: P > I hope this is so. I also hope that the VMS engineers have at least been givenO > the opportunity to look at Hammer and Power 4 so that if/when IA64 fails they : > can quickly say that the port will be relatively simple.    M Based on the information given by HP in the roadmap and by that guy saying he K wants VMS customers to move to HP-UX, I am not so convinced anymore that HP ' will bother finishing the port to IA64.   E While Compaq may have said publicly that it got full support from its L customers for the Alpha murder, isn't it possible that once the decision wasL announced, they realised that a huge number of VMS customers wouldn't bother moving to IA64 ?  H Heck, what if Compaq realised that a lot of customers had begun plans toM migrate off of VMS  due to the Alpha murder forcing them to re=evaluate their J VMS strategies. Of course Compaq wouldn't admit publicly to this and woudlM still try to provide a positive spin on the murder. But when Curly was having M those romantic lunches with carly, he might have told her to forget about VMS N because the alpha murder had done more damage than expected and that while sheG had to finish the Intel-funded port, she should instead look to make it T possible to keep those customers by helping them migrate off VMS to some HP product.  L To Carly, this would make sense since it would bring additional customers toN HP-UX, raising its profile in the industry so it could tackle the bigger guys.   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 09 May 2002 19:56:12 GMT  From: system@SendSpamHere.ORG A Subject: Anybody get the CSA/PAKGEN to generate *valid* licenses? 0 Message-ID: <00A0DAFA.77BA1FF2@SendSpamHere.ORG>   Subject says it all.  E I can get the CSA PAKGEN to generate PAKs with my producer and issuer ? names but the checksums never validate when I try to load them.    --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM              5   "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?"     ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 00:27:58 -0400   From: John Santos <JOHN@egh.com>E Subject: Re: Anybody get the CSA/PAKGEN to generate *valid* licenses? 4 Message-ID: <1020510000116.353A-100000@Ives.egh.com>  1 On Thu, 9 May 2002 system@SendSpamHere.ORG wrote:    > Subject says it all. > G > I can get the CSA PAKGEN to generate PAKs with my producer and issuer A > names but the checksums never validate when I try to load them.   C Works for me...  It takes some playing around (or maybe reading the C manual) to determine what works for register/create and for loading A the license, but I haven't had any problems registering a license   that I have successfully issued.   Just to make sure, steps are: * 1) $ license register/generate PRODUCT ...D It seems to be recommended that you use a dummy license database, soC you don't end up filling up your active license database with noise  records.  ( 2) $ license issue/procedure PRODUCT ...I Make a command file that you can mail, e-mail, or fax to your customer so  they can register the license.  D 3) On customer's system, they execute the command procedure you sent? them to REGISTER the license (or cut&paste it from the e-mail.)   B Or 3a) Customer uses @sys$update:vmslicense to type in the licenseE info from the command file/mail/fax message.  (I think all vmslicense D does is generate a LICENSE REGISTER command that should be identicalC to the one in the command file created by LICENSE ISSUE/PROCEDURE.)    4) $ license load PRODUCT B Customer loads license.  (I think vmslicense.com asks if it should3 do this for you when after you register a license.)   ? I think the only time the checksum is checked is in the LICENSE  REGISTER in step 3 or 3a.   A (I've had problems with licenses that will register but not load. D This hasn't been a checksum error, but rather a "%LICENSE-W-WRGARCH,C PRODUCT license is not valid on this architecture" which I fixed by D generating a license with /AVAIL=H/OPTIONS=(ALPHA).  I was trying toG generate an architecture neutral license with /AVAIL=I, but it wouldn't  load...  Time to RTFM.)   ? If you want to make nice PAK certificates like DEC/Compaq/HP/?? B provides, I think you need to use $ license issue (no /procedure),= in step 2 and capture the output and print it on a nice form. @ (Maybe the postscript wizards could come up with one?)  Then youD would have to use @sys$update:vmslicense, which is more error-prone.  @ What is the target (customer) system?  PAKGEN seems to make only= the newer-format licenses (checksum begins with "2-")  If the < targer system is old enough, maybe it only supports the "1-"> licenses.  (I think this preceded Alphas, i.e. VAX VMS V5.4 or older.)    --   John Santos  Evans Griffiths & Hart, Inc. 781-861-0670 ext 539   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 09 May 2002 18:54:50 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> - Subject: Re: Bob Palmer and the demise of DEC , Message-ID: <3CDAFE37.39C50F70@videotron.ca>  ( Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy wrote:6 > If is makes you feel any better Sun has a OpenVMS to# > Solaris Affinity Program as well.   M Andrew, if one wanted to make some DECUS presentation to local folks, would a K local SUN office be able to provide technical information on such program ? J (not a sales pitch, but a real technical presentation of the program tools etc) ?  C Or is there someone at Sun headquarters who could travel for this ?    ------------------------------   Date: 9 May 2002 18:02:25 -0700 ( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)- Subject: Re: Bob Palmer and the demise of DEC = Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0205091702.1b301325@posting.google.com>   r "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com> wrote in message news:<xcyC8.4743$1B.145@rwcrnsc51.ops.asp.att.net>...7 > "Bob Ceculski" <bob@instantwhip.com> wrote in message 9 > news:d7791aa1.0205081116.2f45354e@posting.google.com... A > > Atlant Schmidt <atlantnospam@mindspring.com> wrote in message - >  news:<3CD91F88.E7F08549@mindspring.com>...  > > > > > exactly what I have been saying for years ... Palmer was a< > > Gates crony, paid off by Bill and Intel to give them all" > > the little Alpha - VMS secrets > N > Nice assertion. Now let's see some concrete evidence. Cancelled checks wouldC > be nice. Other forms of demonstrable evidence would be nice, too.  >  >  > while slowly destroying > > > Digital ... this just confirms it ... and the next Palmer,= > > Scott Stallard at hp is starting this again with a vms to : > > hp ux affinity program ... read the pdf at the openvms: > > website, the Q/A for vms at the bottom ... that pretty > > much sums it up ...  > N > I seemed to miss the statement that Mister Stallard is a crony of Bill GatesI > and Andy Grove AND the Space Alien that we read about every week in the I > Weekly World News. Perhaps my browser suppressed this smoking evidence.  >  > > < > > http://www.compaq.com/hps/download/5_6_hp_newsletter.pdf  ? that is my opinion, take it or leave it for what it's worth ... : however, I think the outcomes of DEC and Q and what we are hearing makes it obvious ...   ------------------------------   Date: 9 May 2002 18:13:36 -0700 ( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)- Subject: Re: Bob Palmer and the demise of DEC = Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0205091713.4a6a6dcc@posting.google.com>   r "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com> wrote in message news:<xcyC8.4743$1B.145@rwcrnsc51.ops.asp.att.net>...7 > "Bob Ceculski" <bob@instantwhip.com> wrote in message 9 > news:d7791aa1.0205081116.2f45354e@posting.google.com... A > > Atlant Schmidt <atlantnospam@mindspring.com> wrote in message - >  news:<3CD91F88.E7F08549@mindspring.com>...  > > > > > exactly what I have been saying for years ... Palmer was a< > > Gates crony, paid off by Bill and Intel to give them all" > > the little Alpha - VMS secrets > N > Nice assertion. Now let's see some concrete evidence. Cancelled checks wouldC > be nice. Other forms of demonstrable evidence would be nice, too.  > < > > http://www.compaq.com/hps/download/5_6_hp_newsletter.pdf    C Terry, either Palmer, Capellas and the rest were either on the take . or they are complete morons ... which is it?    E early 90's ... Bill Gates/Dave Cutler caught w/dec mica code/comments D                in NT, the result, the first 64 bit windoze on Alpha?"                right, where is it?  C mid 90's ... Intel caught w/Alpha logic in Itanium, the result, buy C              a plant and make Alphas for the next 10-15 years?  are D              they still making them?  Yes, but w/the name Itanium 2!  B late 90's ... NT affinity ... throw away a 4 billion dollar a yearE               vms business for high volume, no profit pc's?  that was                sure a winner!  C early 2000's ... trash Alpha EV8, which put on top of EV7 bandwidth C                  would have been untouchable ... canned, and on top B                  of that, we might as well give away Alpha secrets+                  and engineers to Intel ...l  = this is either "sell out" or "stupidity" ... which one Terry?    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 02:48:16 GMTb1 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com>?- Subject: Re: Bob Palmer and the demise of DEC 8 Message-ID: <QxGC8.6195$1B.73@rwcrnsc51.ops.asp.att.net>  5 "Bob Ceculski" <bob@instantwhip.com> wrote in messagel7 news:d7791aa1.0205091702.1b301325@posting.google.com... > > "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com> wrote in message5 news:<xcyC8.4743$1B.145@rwcrnsc51.ops.asp.att.net>...o9 > > "Bob Ceculski" <bob@instantwhip.com> wrote in messagel; > > news:d7791aa1.0205081116.2f45354e@posting.google.com...SC > > > Atlant Schmidt <atlantnospam@mindspring.com> wrote in messageS/ > >  news:<3CD91F88.E7F08549@mindspring.com>...a > > >o@ > > > exactly what I have been saying for years ... Palmer was a> > > > Gates crony, paid off by Bill and Intel to give them all$ > > > the little Alpha - VMS secrets > > J > > Nice assertion. Now let's see some concrete evidence. Cancelled checks wouldnE > > be nice. Other forms of demonstrable evidence would be nice, too.  > >a > >  > > while slowly destroyingc@ > > > Digital ... this just confirms it ... and the next Palmer,? > > > Scott Stallard at hp is starting this again with a vms toy< > > > hp ux affinity program ... read the pdf at the openvms< > > > website, the Q/A for vms at the bottom ... that pretty > > > much sums it up ...  > >PJ > > I seemed to miss the statement that Mister Stallard is a crony of Bill GatesSK > > and Andy Grove AND the Space Alien that we read about every week in the K > > Weekly World News. Perhaps my browser suppressed this smoking evidence.s > >l > > >U> > > > http://www.compaq.com/hps/download/5_6_hp_newsletter.pdf >"A > that is my opinion, take it or leave it for what it's worth ...m< > however, I think the outcomes of DEC and Q and what we are > hearing makes it obvious ...  L Unless, of course, HPQ profited from the mistakes of the fathers, and it's a5 bit early to make that assertion. We'll see, I guess.    ------------------------------   Date: 9 May 2002 18:51:09 GMTd1 From: bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)a< Subject: Re: Capellas: Linux, Windows Will 'Eviscerate' Unix, Message-ID: <abeget$29bb$2@info.cs.uofs.edu>  = In article <d7791aa1.0205090629.7eb3930d@posting.google.com>,y+  bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski) writes: u |> Bill Gunshannon <bill@cs.uofs.edu> wrote in message news:<20020508203928.M20469-100000@server2.cs.scranton.edu>...e' |> > On 8 May 2002, Bob Ceculski wrote:e |> > aB |> > >             Check the cert site or other comp.os boards andE |> > > wonder in amazement how stupid everyone is for ever running ona' |> > > these mickey mouse platforms ...u |> > > |> > dH |> > I did check CERT.  You didn't answer my question about why youe notF |> > running Primos, RT-11, RSTS/E or RSX-11.  They all have less CERTG |> > advisories than even VMS. Added all together, those four OSes haveiG |> > a grand total of 0.  If your really concerned with security, startE |> > migrating today!! |> > a	 |> > bill  |> e? |> as soon as you write an ip stack for rsts/e, let me know ...p  = What's that got to do with it??  And that's only one of them.e@ The other three all have IP stacks so if that's your only reason3 for staying on VMS you better start your migration.a  > Oh yeah, assuming a quiet summer here I am considering looking: at writting an IP stack for RSTS/E as it's still one of my favorite OSes.     bill   -- oJ Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   m   ------------------------------   Date: 9 May 2002 18:54:51 GMTl1 From: bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)O< Subject: Re: Capellas: Linux, Windows Will 'Eviscerate' Unix, Message-ID: <abeglr$29bb$3@info.cs.uofs.edu>  3 In article <Z5TMGQgVsj1L@eisner.encompasserve.org>,"0  Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) writes:c |> In article <abe4ru$244q$2@info.cs.uofs.edu>, bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes:< |> e? |> > |>                           and you get what you pay for!v |> > n@ |> > Not true in this business for a long, long time.  Or do youA |> > really think MS Office is worth the $479 quoted on the frontI |> > of a recent trade rag?? |> n3 |> Presumably it is worth that to those who buy it.y  C But that argument invalidates Bob's statement entirely as you wouldsB then have to assume that all things are worth exactly what you pay	 for them.e   |>  D |> What I paid to not get it may be closer to the fair market value,8 |> but a lot of organizations have not figured that out.  @ Many things are not worth what you pay for them but the purchase) is driven by factors beyond your control.    bill   -- iJ Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   u   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 9 May 2002 23:41:44 +0200) From: Stefaan A Eeckels <hoendech@ecc.lu>l< Subject: Re: Capellas: Linux, Windows Will 'Eviscerate' Unix5 Message-ID: <20020509234144.2dcf8fc9.hoendech@ecc.lu>    On 9 May 2002 14:39:05 GMT$ damercer@mmm.com (Dan Mercer) wrote:  7 > In article <20020509001631.42734cd5.hoendech@ecc.lu>,e- > Stefaan A Eeckels <hoendech@ecc.lu> writes:f > > On 8 May 2002 14:25:03 GMT( > > damercer@mmm.com (Dan Mercer) wrote: > > : > >> In article <20020508160416.4d076561.hoendech@ecc.lu>,0 > >> Stefaan A Eeckels <hoendech@ecc.lu> writes: > > B > >> > There are no binary configuration files in System V derived > >> > systems.  > >> .F > >> Although this is largely true,  it is not completely true.  WhileD > >> the BSD printing system (LPR) is entirely based on ASCII configH > >files,> regrettably the SysV system (LPD) is not.  This makes it very> > >difficult> to work with or to duplicate to a mirror server. > > B > > Did you check this? The configuration files are under /etc/lp,  > > and they're all text files.  > B > Only if the printers are connected to the LPT port.  If you haveB > network LPD or LPR printers,  then the ASCII text files tell you? > very little.  For instance I have a printer attached to my NTfG > PC that I access via LPR.  What files actually point to its location:l >  >    $ find /var/spool/lp \  >    >      /etc/lp \t >    >      /usr/lib/lp  >    >      -follow \a >    >      -type f \e) >    >      -exec grep -iq w09876 {} \; \s >    >      -exec file {} \;? >    /var/spool/lp/request/w09876/.sendingstatus:    ascii textS! >    /var/spool/lp/pstatus:  dataa! >    /var/spool/lp/qstatus:  datat' >    /var/spool/lp/default:  ascii textp! >    /var/spool/lp/outputq:  data  > A > The three files that control where the output is sent,  pstatusd; > qstatus amd outputq are all binaries.  Their contents arehE > constructed by the lpadmin command and only queryable by the lpstato? > command.  I have never been able to figure out how to clone a-/ > configuration from one LPD system to another.l  : I've no intentions to start splitting hairs. LPD has been : implemented anew for almost every strain of SVID compliant9 Unix. The current big three (Solaris, AIX and HP-UX) eacht8 have a different implementation. For example, lpadmin is9 a binary in HP-UX, an shell script in Solaris, and absentd	 in AIX...t  6 Nonetheless, files in /var (even when they are created7 through a command that has "admin" as part of its name)h3 shouldn't really be configuration files, but ratherp9 run-time files. The HP-UX implementation of LPD is ratherh8 crummy, because the only place it stores the destination: is in pstatus, making it effectively a configuration file.; Naugthy, naughty, naughty HP. Solaris is better, and storesq' this information in /etc/printers.conf.u  ; Thanks for letting me remember one of the myriad of reasons $ why LPD sucks rocks through a straw.     -- c Stefaanp -- uJ Microsoft treats IT managers the way Proctor & Gamble treats nine-year-oldH prospective consumers: lots of noise, bright colors, and jumping around.= Other software vendors just wish they could be so successful.l. 				         -- Cameron Laird in comp.lang.tcl   ------------------------------   Date: 9 May 2002 17:56:29 -0700t( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)< Subject: Re: Capellas: Linux, Windows Will 'Eviscerate' Unix= Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0205091656.12105bae@posting.google.com>t  e bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) wrote in message news:<abe4ru$244q$2@info.cs.uofs.edu>...-? > In article <d7791aa1.0205090627.435e9657@posting.google.com>, - >  bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski) writes:o > |> t > |> vms is not expensive ...d >  > As compared to what??A > < > |>                           and you get what you pay for! > = > Not true in this business for a long, long time.  Or do youa> > really think MS Office is worth the $479 quoted on the front > of a recent trade rag??e >  > bill  0 microsoft I have said before is an exception ...@ and by not expensive I mean compared to any other os is terms of@ downtime, bugs, patching, more time and expense wasted by having< to buy extra hardware/software because of bad clustering, noA volume shadowing, S E C U R I T Y issues, my goodness, just think1> of the money wasted on security when for peanuts w/vms you are? "unhackable" as declared by defcon9 and soon to be defcon10 ...a= YOU CAN NOT ROOT A PROPERLY CONFIGURED VMS SYSTEM, and defcone
 proves it ...    ------------------------------    Date: 09 May 2002 22:30:08 -0500= From: Mike Coleman <mkc+dated+1023593140.9edac5@mathdogs.com>l< Subject: Re: Capellas: Linux, Windows Will 'Eviscerate' Unix) Message-ID: <87adr8znlr.fsf@mathdogs.com>m  * bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski) writes:0 > again, this is 2002, not 1987 ... try reading    Heh.  What a gem.e  G > I have been on vms 17+ years now still waiting for my first os crash,  > what about you?o  N I guess I saw about as many VMS crashes in the couple of years I was a user as6 I have with Linux in the 8-9 years I've been using it.  M Instability isn't the reason I don't use it, though.  It just doesn't providee? the tools and ease of administration I need to get things done.r   Regards.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 09 May 2002 20:58:58 +0200C= From: Arne =?iso-8859-1?Q?Vajh=F8j?= <arne.vajhoej@gtech.com>o) Subject: Re: CSWS / CSWB / MX SpeculationI) Message-ID: <3CDAC6F2.BCE96DD9@gtech.com>L   Carl Perkins wrote: C > Arne =?iso-8859-1?Q?Vajh=F8j?= <arne.vajhoej@gtech.com> writes...I  4 > }Do you claim that MS Office Outlook will function2 > }with full functionality (including calendar and4 > }email arrival notification) up against a VMS POP3 > }server ???? > A > When talking mail, which we were, yes - it is fully functional.I" > Mail flows in a reliable manner.  : "Mail flows in a reliable manner" was good enough 10 years ago.  
 Not today.  < > You certainly do get mail arrival notifications with POP3.> > These are, naturally, when the mail arrives on your PC (withA > POP, if it hasn't arrived on your PC, you can't read it anyway)aF > after either one of the regularly scheduled checks, or after sending@ > a message (since a "send" is, as I recal, actually a "send andF > check for new mail"), or after an explicit "check for new messages".  A You can not send email with POP3 and IMAP4. "Internet type" emailc> clients use SMTP to send email and POP3 or IMAP4 to read email with.y  D > What is more important, a calendar feature or e-mail that actuallyF > works? In our case, we consider an e-mail system that is reliable to. > be far more important than shared calendars.  @ Yes. But I do not think you are typical for the market. Actually you are smarter.  : Just compare VMS sales figures with Windows sales figures.7 The respsect for quality is not what dominates computer- purchasing.5  7 I have never said that VMS with MX (or PMDF) would be a08 bad technical solution. I am saying that I think it will not be a commercial success.   Arne   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 09 May 2002 20:50:17 +0200H= From: Arne =?iso-8859-1?Q?Vajh=F8j?= <arne.vajhoej@gtech.com>t) Subject: Re: CSWS / CSWB / MX Speculationy) Message-ID: <3CDAC4E9.A99E92C7@gtech.com>    david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk wrote:lP > No I was talking mail servers - just about every Unix system ships with a free > mail server (Sendmail).l  9 Yep - but how many companies use that for corporate emailo  L > Users access their mail in many different ways not just POP. POP, IMAP,webQ > access and also local mail clients - they can telnet or ssh into the system and@' > run PINE or other local mail clients.R  A You can telnet and read email. I can do it. But the average email2" user does not know what telnet is.  = > >(And most important) dollars spend on email: no way (therex6 > >are much more money in delivering email solution to9 > >corporations than to supply email solutions to ISP's).7 > O > The fact that a solution is free doesn't make it a worse solution. Especiallyn( > when compared with Microsoft products.M > I have no doubt that Microsoft makes more money out of Exchange than any of ) > the commercial Unix mailserver vendors.,< > And just why is this important - apart from to Microsoft ?  6 My whole point in this thread is that I do not believe= that VMS with MX (or PMDF) would be a big commercial success.f  P > >> By the way has hotmail now finally been converted to run on Exchange or are > >> Microsoft still trying ?o > >sA > >I doubt that MS has ever tried to convert Hotmail to Exchange.t > >gE > >They have changed converting the platform from Solaris to Windows.o! > >Without luck as far as I know.s > >hK > My understanding was that the aim of these conversions was to get hotmaileO > running on Exchange. Its bad publicity for Microsoft when they can't run suche$ > an ISP on their own mail platform.   Maybe.   That is not how I heard it.s  : And I can not see the point in using Exchange for an email' system that only has an web-interface !_  1 That is like having installed Oracle to keep youre personal address book.  D > >We can argue from now to eternity that the MS way of doing things6 > >is bad from a software architectural point of view. > >a> > >But MS sales figures proves that it is good from a business > >point of view.R > M > So what ?  Tying someone in to a proprietary solution is always good from atP > business point of view (that is from the point of view of the business sellingI > the proprietary solution). Microsoft sells a lot of exchange servers to@J > corporate businesses on  "Microsoft is the standard/ noone got fired for > buying Microsoft".   Yep.  A > As I said above this is getting very off topic for comp.os.vms.D  > I find it very difficult to see why a discussion about whether@ there are a potential market for VMS mail-servers is off-topic !  Q > I believe that myself and others have demonstrated that there would be a marketsO > for a VMS based mail solution (and indeed is - Since I already run such a VMSOP > PMDF based POP,IMAP,Web accessable mail solution at Middlesex University as do/ > many other PMDF users at other institutions).r  @ How many sites do you know that has started with such a solution within the last 5 years ?.  ; How many sites do you know that has dropped such a solutiont within the last 5 years ?   ? There are a market, but I think is a very small market and what? is worse a shrinking market !s   Arme   ------------------------------   Date: 9 May 2002 22:14:12 GMT  From: phn@icke-reklam.ipsec.nu) Subject: Re: CSWS / CSWB / MX Speculation ) Message-ID: <abesbk$1n6$1@nyheter.crt.se>w  + Arne Vajhj <arne.vajhoej@gtech.com> wrote:t! > david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk wrote: Q >> No I was talking mail servers - just about every Unix system ships with a free  >> mail server (Sendmail).  ; > Yep - but how many companies use that for corporate emaili  G Most does. Even if their corporate religion demands sExchange sendmail  3 is _the_ frontend to Internet ( by obvious reasons)A  M >> Users access their mail in many different ways not just POP. POP, IMAP,webl' %% stuff removed to save Your eyes %%%%  > Arme   -- - Peter Hkanson         e7         IPSec  Sverige      ( At Gothenburg Riverside )"J            Sorry about my e-mail address, but i'm trying to keep spam out,; 	   remove "icke-reklam" if you feel for mailing me. Thanx.B   ------------------------------  * Date: Thu, 9 May 2002 23:35:47 +0000 (UTC) From: david20@alpha1.mdx.ac.uk) Subject: Re: CSWS / CSWB / MX Speculationm* Message-ID: <abf14j$dn$1@aquila.mdx.ac.uk>  i In article <3CDAC4E9.A99E92C7@gtech.com>, Arne =?iso-8859-1?Q?Vajh=F8j?= <arne.vajhoej@gtech.com> writes:.  >david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk wrote:Q >> No I was talking mail servers - just about every Unix system ships with a free  >> mail server (Sendmail). >r: >Yep - but how many companies use that for corporate email >   L In the UK University sector I'd say probably 80% have sendmail somewhere andG a fairly large percentage have it as their main server or their centraloN mailhub. I know of very few UK Universities where Exchange is in more than one or two departments.e  M >> Users access their mail in many different ways not just POP. POP, IMAP,webiR >> access and also local mail clients - they can telnet or ssh into the system and( >> run PINE or other local mail clients. > B >You can telnet and read email. I can do it. But the average email# >user does not know what telnet is.t >   K I was just pointing out all the different ways in which mail servers can beaJ accessed. Do you know why there are all these different ways ? Partly it'sC historical but also each has advantages in different circumstances..9 eg Working offline , connecting from an Internet cafe etcl    > >> >(And most important) dollars spend on email: no way (there7 >> >are much more money in delivering email solution toh: >> >corporations than to supply email solutions to ISP's). >> aP >> The fact that a solution is free doesn't make it a worse solution. Especially) >> when compared with Microsoft products.aN >> I have no doubt that Microsoft makes more money out of Exchange than any of* >> the commercial Unix mailserver vendors.= >> And just why is this important - apart from to Microsoft ?R >C7 >My whole point in this thread is that I do not believeD> >that VMS with MX (or PMDF) would be a big commercial success. >2  L Well lets think about that. Digital used to be a big player in mail products! - ALL-IN-ONE, Message-Router etc.u? They gave it all up for a share in Microsoft's Exchange vision.s  ; Now lets look at one of Digital/Compaq's competitors - SUN.>L Andrew will probably correct me on this but in the heyday of ALL-IN-ONE and 9 IBM's PROFS SUN weren't really anywhere in Mail products.gH But a few years back they decided that was going to change. They started8 creating their own Mail server products. Setup Iplanet. & Purchased Innosoft the makers of PMDF.O Sun obviously doesn't believe that the advent of Exchange means that they can'tg sell a Mail product.  # So if Sun can do it why can't HPQ ?u        Q >> >> By the way has hotmail now finally been converted to run on Exchange or are  >> >> Microsoft still trying ? >> >B >> >I doubt that MS has ever tried to convert Hotmail to Exchange. >> >F >> >They have changed converting the platform from Solaris to Windows." >> >Without luck as far as I know. >> >L >> My understanding was that the aim of these conversions was to get hotmailP >> running on Exchange. Its bad publicity for Microsoft when they can't run such% >> an ISP on their own mail platform.o >  >Maybe.  >m >That is not how I heard it. >e; >And I can not see the point in using Exchange for an emailh( >system that only has an web-interface ! > 2 >That is like having installed Oracle to keep your >personal address book.- >-  N Isn't Microsoft planning on doing that - I thought I'd heard they had plans to, incorporate SQL SERVER in all their systems.  L Exchange is Microsoft's mail product - why should they use anything else forL storing mail ? Not using it and instead using a Unix based mail system sends@ a very bad message to customers ie Do as I say Don't do as I do.    E >> >We can argue from now to eternity that the MS way of doing things 7 >> >is bad from a software architectural point of view.y >> >? >> >But MS sales figures proves that it is good from a businessO >> >point of view. >> nN >> So what ?  Tying someone in to a proprietary solution is always good from aQ >> business point of view (that is from the point of view of the business sellingnJ >> the proprietary solution). Microsoft sells a lot of exchange servers toK >> corporate businesses on  "Microsoft is the standard/ noone got fired fort >> buying Microsoft".s >t >Yep.a >mB >> As I said above this is getting very off topic for comp.os.vms. > ? >I find it very difficult to see why a discussion about whethereA >there are a potential market for VMS mail-servers is off-topic !G >h  J Except that this has degenerated into a discussion of whether there is any. point in selling anything other than Exchange.    e      R >> I believe that myself and others have demonstrated that there would be a marketP >> for a VMS based mail solution (and indeed is - Since I already run such a VMSQ >> PMDF based POP,IMAP,Web accessable mail solution at Middlesex University as do 0 >> many other PMDF users at other institutions). >dA >How many sites do you know that has started with such a solutionm >within the last 5 years ? >n< >How many sites do you know that has dropped such a solution >within the last 5 years ? >r  E I freely admit I have no figures and I'd suggest that neither do you. N The number of VMS sites in education dropped off rather more than 5 years ago.  O I do know that the although PMDF is available on VMS, TRU64, Solaris and NT theu5 majority of PMDF customers still appear to be on VMS.>        @ >There are a market, but I think is a very small market and what >is worse a shrinking market !  O Only if you believe as you obviously do that Exchange is the only mail solution) users should and will want.   K Since it is obvious there is no way I can convince you otherwise I will noto8 be responding to any more of your posts on this subject.    
 David Webb VMS and Unix team leader CCSS Middlesex University   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 09 May 2002 23:28:16 GMTt# From: ualski <ualski@earthlink.net>l Subject: Re: DCL Question - Message-ID: <3CDB060A.DE2A5EF7@earthlink.net>s  F When you have read in a line from your temporary file (into the symbol "LINE"), try this:  G $ NAME = F$ELEMENT(0," ",F$EDIT(F$ELEMENT(0,"=",LINE),"TRIM,COMPRESS"))>  7 If F$LENGTH(NAME) .NE. 0, then you have a logical name.s   -- Aaron Sliwinski    
 Jon wrote: > H > Ok, I've got a DCL question that has stumped me for a while.  I've gotC > a piece of code that is attempting to located certain data on the/C > system (a code specific database) which could exist on any of thehG > mounted volumes.  I need to track to size of the database.  We've got H > a logical that points to the location of the database.  It's simple toF > get that specific one, but there can be "extensions" to the database4 > which would create other logicals.  As an example: >  > $ sho log database*o >  > (LNM$PROCESS_TABLE)t >  > (LNM$JOB_80D13780) >  > (LNM$GROUP_000001) >  > (LNM$SYSTEM_TABLE) >  >   "DATABASE" = "$1$DKA0:"  >   "DATABASE_1" = "$1$DKA100:"I >   "DATABASE_2" = "$1$DKA200:"e >  > (LNM$SYSCLUSTER_TABLE) >  > (DECW$LOGICAL_NAMES) > $a > C > The problem lies in that the primary logical is there (database),iA > however, the extensions may or may not be there (depends on thei= > structuring of the data).  I've done some code where I do aeC > "sho log database*/out=<Filename>" and attempted to parse out thetF > locations, but the quotes are causing me a problem.  Anyone have any; > suggestions as to the best way to get this info?  Thanks!n   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 00:22:48 GMTe* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>V Subject: Re: Facts:  you ask, you get   (was:  Re: Alpha to ia64: where is the issue?)B Message-ID: <spEC8.147793$Lj.11892375@bin4.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>  5 "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote in messagei< news:%dEC8.113439$q8.11929366@bin3.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com...   ...i  G > Technically, 'by the middle of this decade' equates to 'by January 1,g 2005':  E Mea culpa:  technically, it equates to 'by January 1, 2006'.  But the B now-popular interpretation is indeed 'by January 1, 2005', and theI additional comment just below reinforces the impression that this is whatt they meant.m  H > another specific time reference.  Then the abstract continues with theG > statement "The reasons to go to the Intel Itanium Processor Family in6K > 2004-2005 are based on technology and performance", removing any possible>K > doubt that they might have been referring to superior *price/performance* G > (though even that is, as I've explained elsewhere, a dubious claim ath best). > A > Later, it states flatly that "EV8 would be competitive, but thet= > differentiation would be less than that realized with prior  > product generations."e   - bill   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 00:10:35 GMT * From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>R Subject: Facts:  you ask, you get   (was:  Re: Alpha to ia64: where is the issue?)B Message-ID: <%dEC8.113439$q8.11929366@bin3.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>  < "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com> wrote in message4 news:J8zC8.6060$Po6.388@rwcrnsc52.ops.asp.att.net...   ...t  2 > Ya know, this is really starting to get tedious.  I Indeed - people like you apparently not only never learn but get tired of- the effort it takes not to.8   >0D > Compaq said that Alpha would not be able to maintain a significant6 > performance advantage over IA64. Yep, they sure did.  J Glad there's no waffling on that point.  Keep it in mind below, especiallyC during the part that considers where Itanic would be in a few years.E *without* the Alpha team, which is of course the context in which them# comparison above must be performed.o   > A > Do you happen to remember the TIMEFRAME in which the diminisheda performanceaC > differential was supposed to show up? If so, speak up and provide'
 citations.  & As a matter of fact, I do, and I will.  H First (and least quantitatively, but *most* obviously), the timeframe inL which the diminished lead was supposed to show up was EV8, because if it wasI any later than that then the project that would have made sense to canceluJ was not EV8 (with its still-significantly-better performance) but EV9.  InI fact, this is exactly what many here (including yourself, more than once)j: have suggested would have made a hell of a lot more sense.  & Moving on to more specific statements:  - http://www.eetimes.com/story/OEG20010625S0105l   <quote>o  I "This is a very bold move for us," said Rich Marcello, vice president andeI general manager for Compaq's performance systems group. He noted that theMH Alpha road map extended for several more years, but that starting aroundD 2004, when the chip would have competed head-to-head against Intel'sL Itanium, its performance advantage would begin to erode significantly. "WhenI we looked at our road map and overlaid it with Intel's road map, we foundhJ there was no substantial performance benefit," he said. "Basically, we areB saying that we couldn't differentiate ourselves at the CPU level."   </quote>  I The above confirms that the supposed erosion of performance advantage wasII said to coincide roughly with EV8's scheduled introduction in 2004.  I'veeI already presented elsewhere recent confirmation (from a Compaq source, notL less) of my analysis last year that EV8 would have offered about 3 times theF per-processor performance of Montecito (its Itanic contemporary) - andL likely more in larger multi-processor configurations - so there's no need toI repeat that here (if you missed it, as you seem to miss a lot these days,i look it up).  * Next we have statements from you yourself:  ( http://zdnet.com.com/2100-11-268986.html   <quote>e  F "Within four years or less, Compaq no longer would be able to maintainK performance differentiation on the Alpha chip," Shannon wrote in the latest:1 edition of his newsletter "Shannon Knows Compaq."<   ...j  G Compaq realized "the then current Alpha chip--its EV8--would not have a3> significant performance advantage" over Itanium, Shannon said.   </quote>  J Since the above appeared in a 6/25/01 article, 'within four years or less'# equates to 'by or before mid-2005'.   E Then there's the HPS Business Unit's white paper of last October that B attempted to justify the Alphacide (and failed - as I've describedL elsewhere, but find even more laughable on re-reading it now).  I got a copyH privately, but don't know if it was circulated publicly.  In the opening abstract, it statesm   <quote>d  J In particular we believe that major change in the industry is taking placeD over the next decade, and that one microprocessor, the Intel ItaniumI Processor Family will dominate all others in performance by the middle ofaI this decade. We also believe that its performance advantage will only get L stronger after that. During this time, we believed it would also surpass theG Alpha microprocessor (which has been the dominant microprocessor from ar- performance perspective for the past decade).a   </quote>  L Technically, 'by the middle of this decade' equates to 'by January 1, 2005':F another specific time reference.  Then the abstract continues with theE statement "The reasons to go to the Intel Itanium Processor Family in>I 2004-2005 are based on technology and performance", removing any possibleeI doubt that they might have been referring to superior *price/performance*mL (though even that is, as I've explained elsewhere, a dubious claim at best).  ? Later, it states flatly that "EV8 would be competitive, but thee; differentiation would be less than that realized with prior K product generations."  Utter bullshit:  EV8 would not only ride the processiB waves everyone else (even Itanic) was but double its per-processorC performance in server-style environments by the introduction of SMT J (something no other mid-range-or-higher competitor had), so EV8 was poised* to *increase*, not decrease, Alpha's lead.  B Is is any wonder that I think the high-performance server group isJ incompetent (or, alternatively, lying through its teeth)?  I won't go intoI the many other misrepresentations in this paper now - I'd rather not loset the dinner I just ate.  K And I think that Our Friend Fred weighed in with some opinions based on hislE 'inside information' (I wonder if he's free to divulge it now?) aboutrH Alpha's inability to retain its lead, but I haven't the patience to slogH through the Google archives to find them.  He did privately express suchL sentiments to me (which in retrospect look even sillier than they did at the- time), but asked that I not make them public.   2 > If not, your "lie" allegations are indefensible.  F I think the above defends them more than adequately, multiple specificK citations and all.  Feel free to respond, but with the same specificity and  citations you demanded of us.   G Of course, all this still ignores a question that becomes more and moresK interesting as Intel's near-term schedule for Itanic unfolds:  exactly whatiB was the hardware that Compaq claims would have caught up to Alpha?  F We now know from Intel not only that when Madison (which years ago wasI supposed to be the third major design generation for Itanic) appears nextaL year it will be just a warmed-over, shrunk-down McKinley, but that MontecitoI (scheduled for 2004) will be just more of the same ('little enhancements'BL was the phrase the Intel interviewee used in describing Montecito).  Now, ifK Intel had really been working on *anything* worthwhile a year ago (when the F Alphacide deal was firmed up), then it would have appeared by 2004 (inH Montecito), which makes it difficult indeed to avoid the conclusion thatG Intel didn't have a clue what to do after the McKinley design (not evendK EV7-style on-chip glue, which would *definitely* have appeared in Montecito J had they already been working on it a year ago) and desperately needed theI EV8 team to jump-start an evolution that was otherwise dead in the water.s  J In other words, not only did Compaq lie about Alpha's potential, they liedK about the threat from Itanic:  THERE WAS NONE, and the only way there wouldo; *be* one would be if Intel got its hands on the Alpha team.-  I {And it's far from coincidental that the refrain "Just wait for the Alpha G contributions to arrive!" has since become the main refuge of those whos. still cling to Itanic's *eventual* viability.)  J Was Compaq simply mislead by Intel?  Not if they were paying the slightestK attention:  by March, 2001, Intel had already not only backed away from its C earlier whisper-claims that McKinley would debut at 1.4 GHz but hadiJ withdrawn a later paper that described it debuting at 1.2 GHz, so problemsK were far from hidden.  And if they bought some pie-in-the-sky revolutionarylJ new hardware tale Intel spun them then they were just outright incompetentG (which would not be the first time if that's the case - but would stilliF leave them lying when sticking to their contentions after the vaporous= nature of that hardware became obvious by Intel's own roadmapn announcements).    >t > >hJ > > In lying to customers, Compaq lost their trust. And now we see through the.I > > propaganda they try to produce to portray IA64 as "industry standard"u when0 > > even dead, alpha still sells more than IA64. >n8 > Of course Alpha sells more than IA64, at least so far. >c- > How many Alpha chips were sold in year one?f  I Irrelevant:  Alpha never made any pretense of being an industry standard.tH Instead, compare Itanic shipments in its first year to something like P4H (hardly a stellar performer initially) - or even to the 386 (to pick the7 previous generation that doubled the native word size).>   >p+ > How many IPF chips were sold in year one?P  G Did *anyone* actually pay for one, or were they all lent out to partneruG types?  Certainly the vast majority were, unless you count that one bigo! system I-forget-who was building.n   ..  K > Talk is cheap. Bluster and BS is even cheaper. Let's see some facts for as	 > change!i  E No problemo.  But it's not a change:  you just haven't paid attentione! before.  Think you can this time?    - bill   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 09 May 2002 23:03:47 GMTu From: "McEagle" <spam@spam.com>p6 Subject: Re: Forced migration to HPHUX - Storm Warning> Message-ID: <nfDC8.243776$nc.35899366@typhoon.tampabay.rr.com>  = I agree with John and will do the same IF hp closes down VMS.N   Mike  . "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> wrote in messageB news:FwvC8.25486$GLp1.5754@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com... > < > "Dave Weatherall" <djweath@attglobal.net> wrote in message1 > news:DTiotGxQ0bj6-pn2-wdo3ykZ3FdLF@localhost...v > >oJ > > PS My project manager told us monday that VMS is dead (medium term for/ > > our project) ... Where's that Solaris book?n > >t >eG > That's EXACTLY the message HP sent about VMS with the way they worded  their> > announcements. >tK > Do what your boss says - migrate once to Solaris or AIX and keep your jobt > safe.gI > NEVER buy anything from HP again - not even an ink cartridge for an ink. jet>
 > printer.3 > Canon, Epson, and Lexmark make fine printers too.i >w >  >>   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 09 May 2002 20:11:47 -0400o- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>i6 Subject: Re: Forced migration to HPHUX - Storm Warning, Message-ID: <3CDB103A.B714B479@videotron.ca>   McEagle wrote: > ? > I agree with John and will do the same IF hp closes down VMS.p   There lies the problem.   J Do you wait for an official statement from HP that VMS is EOLed, and untilK then continue to grow your VMS applications, or do you try to see the trend L and decide that while there is no urgent need to migrate OFF VMS, you shoudlN choose a new platform to build your new applicatios on , and later migrate the5 remaining legacy apps from VMS to that new platform ?g   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 00:51:52 GMTt1 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com>>6 Subject: Re: Forced migration to HPHUX - Storm Warning: Message-ID: <IQEC8.7321$Po6.558@rwcrnsc52.ops.asp.att.net>  * "McEagle" <spam@spam.com> wrote in message8 news:nfDC8.243776$nc.35899366@typhoon.tampabay.rr.com...? > I agree with John and will do the same IF hp closes down VMS.  >a > Mike >m0 > "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> wrote in messageD > news:FwvC8.25486$GLp1.5754@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com... > >f> > > "Dave Weatherall" <djweath@attglobal.net> wrote in message3 > > news:DTiotGxQ0bj6-pn2-wdo3ykZ3FdLF@localhost...> > > > L > > > PS My project manager told us monday that VMS is dead (medium term for1 > > > our project) ... Where's that Solaris book?o > > >y > >sI > > That's EXACTLY the message HP sent about VMS with the way they wordedi > theiri > > announcements. > >hI > > Do what your boss says - migrate once to Solaris or AIX and keep youri joby	 > > safe. K > > NEVER buy anything from HP again - not even an ink cartridge for an inka > jett > > printer.5 > > Canon, Epson, and Lexmark make fine printers too.d    H A few hundred letters asserting this opinion might sway some opinions...K especially if the letters come from folks with proven purchasing authority!    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 09 May 2002 23:24:02 GMTh- From: "barbara feledziak" <babbouux@yahoo.fr>H2 Subject: Found a new product which turn on many osB Message-ID: <myDC8.147295$Lj.11828010@bin4.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>  K PC Boot Direct is a full development suite dedicated to PC, embedded PC andi PC104 platforms.  L With PC Boot Direct develop, test and execute simple to complex applicationsK directly on your PC microprocessor and this product can turn on multiple os  .V  6 http://www.hyperpanel.com/boot_direct.php3?ID=13660509   ------------------------------   Date: 9 May 2002 18:18:10 -0700e( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)= Subject: Re: Gartner rides again (was Re: HP Product Roadmap) = Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0205091718.4e93061e@posting.google.com>l   Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <andrew_nospam.harrison_remove_this@sun#.com> wrote in message news:<abe7te$90e$2@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>...- > Bob Ceculski wrote:  > l > > Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) wrote in message news:<7O2QDCQqWuZC@eisner.encompasserve.org>... > >  > >>< > >>People should use whatever computer gear does their job,> > >>and nothing less.  That means VMS is not suitable for some< > >>tasks and is suitable for others.  It also means Windows# > >>is not suitable for some tasks.  > >> > > ( > > windoze isn't suitable for any task! > >  >  > 1 > What are you using to post your articles from ?d > 	 > Regards. > Andrew Harrisonc  > I would much rather be using vms, and when the mozilla browser4 becomes stable, that just may be the alternative to  Internet Exploder!    F As for Outhouse Express, we use VMS mail to filter those nasty presentC and coming viruses that will prove to be unstoppable ... to bad you 8 can't run dcl com's or run executables thru vms mail ...   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 9 May 2002 15:34:16 -05004 From: "Lucas, Edward A (SAIC)" <Edward.Lucas@bp.com>" Subject: Help with ?setparams.dat?? Message-ID: <EF1DC894691AD5118AF000508BB85FDE034CC5E7@AMCLVX11>   4 Can someone please provide me the assistance I need.  K If I am not mistaken setparams.dat is the file that is used when the system  boots and needs to set prams.pF Now, If my system crash's (I hope not) and the system goes to boot andK cannot boot because of a parameter error, how do I rename the file back and  use the previous pram file.g   Edward A. Lucase  Sr. VAX/VMS System Administrator SAIC Phone:  (216) 525-7492 Email:   Lucaea@bp.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 09 May 2002 16:49:42 -0400 & From: Ken Robinson <kenrbnsn1@rcn.com>& Subject: Re: Help with ?setparams.dat?< Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020509164507.00b653c8@pop.rcn.com>  9 At 03:34 PM 5/9/2002 -0500, Lucas, Edward A (SAIC) wrote:t5 >Can someone please provide me the assistance I need.n >.L >If I am not mistaken setparams.dat is the file that is used when the system >boots and needs to set prams.G >Now, If my system crash's (I hope not) and the system goes to boot andtL >cannot boot because of a parameter error, how do I rename the file back and >use the previous pram file.  L No that is not the file. If your system doesn't want to reboot because of a K parameter problem, boot into SYSBOOT>, set STARTUP_P1 to "MIN", and see if  I it boots that way. Once it has booted (minimum), use the AUTOGEN command nL procedure in conjunction with the file SYS$SYSTEM:MODPARAMS.DAT to fix your  problem.  * Also, read the doc set, it's all in there.   Ken Robinson! OpenVMS System Manager Consultanti kenrbnsn1@rcn.comr kenrbnsn@rbnsn.com   >Edward A. Lucas! >Sr. VAX/VMS System Administratori >SAICe >Phone:  (216) 525-7492h >Email:   Lucaea@bp.com    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 00:35:27 GMT ) From: rob.buxton@wcc.govt.nz (Rob Buxton) & Subject: Re: Help with ?setparams.dat?1 Message-ID: <3cdb138d.937023388@news.wcc.govt.nz>   ; On Thu, 9 May 2002 15:34:16 -0500, "Lucas, Edward A (SAIC)"  <Edward.Lucas@bp.com> wrote:  5 >Can someone please provide me the assistance I need.s >-L >If I am not mistaken setparams.dat is the file that is used when the system >boots and needs to set prams.G >Now, If my system crash's (I hope not) and the system goes to boot andtL >cannot boot because of a parameter error, how do I rename the file back and >use the previous pram file. >a No, the file used is eithero$ SYS$SYSROOT:[SYSEXE]ALPHAVMSSYS.PAR; or" SYS$SYSROOT:[SYSEXE]VAXVMSSYS.PAR; Depending on Architecture.. The previous version of these files is a .OLD.  F Now, the ONLY time I've ever had to replace the .PAR with the .OLD wasF when I'd set some incorrect parameters. And the System failed to boot.  C I do not recommend renaming these files unless you know what you'rem doing.  ? System Crashes don't really feature in this, if you've manuallyhF adjusted the parameters (via Sysgen) or done changes via Modparams.datA and Autogenned, then it doesn't really matter how the system getsa" rebooted, crash or normal restart.  D Others have suggested booting to SYSBOOT> which is the better way of undoing manual changes.l   Rob.     >Edward A. Lucas! >Sr. VAX/VMS System Administrator  >SAICa >Phone:  (216) 525-7492o >Email:   Lucaea@bp.comn >u >a   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 07 May 2002 17:05:55 GMT 3 From: sy18889@rabbit.fmr.com (Bradford J. Hamilton)e+ Subject: Re: HP is taking over really fast!v. Message-ID: <TPTB8.17$O3.36@news-srv1.fmr.com>  N I opened my first service call today, and found the person answering the phoneO to be fast and courteous.  She did have to put me on hold to ask a question (so I I have a good idea she may not have been a COMPAQ employee).  Much better # response than I expected for Day 1.e  K Our Gold TAM responded within expectations, and sent an e-mail from hp.com.eL I sent a reply back to the hp.com address, and received acknowledgement that the TAM received my reply.  " Bottom line: good work all around!  q In article <HBTB8.35$dF5.376846@cacnews.cac.cpqcorp.net>, "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> writes: E >Yes.  Except in some cases where there are overlapping names in both/M >companies, which is always problematic.  You can send me mail at both hp and  >compaq - both will reach me.w >  >' >c. >david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk wrote in message ...; >>In article <3CD7FC42.7010106@xs4all.nospam.nl>, Bart Zornn" ><B.Zorn@xs4all.nospam.nl> writes:I >>>I just got an e-mail from a friend from inside Compaq. I am absolutelyMF >>>sure that HE didn't change his e-mail address, but what I got was a >>><someone>@hp.com address. >>>  >>>That's really fast! >>>(M >>I would assume someone has setup the Compaq mailhubs to do a simple reversew5 >>address rewrite. Probably a one or two line change.m >>L >>The bigger question is whether they co-ordinated this well enough that you >can= >>reply to this address and get it go to the correct person ?aM >>Not a major problem if the <someone> part is sufficiently different betweenC; >>companies but a major problem if you have any duplicates.h >> >> >> >>David Webb >>VMS and Unix team leader >>CCSS >>Middlesex University >> >> >>>Bart Zorn >>>c >h >b Bradford J. Hamilton& braMdhamAilPtoSn@aMtAtPbi.cSom		(home)& sMy1A88P89S@rabMbit.fAmPr.coSm		(work)  ; "All opinions that I express are my own, not my employer's"b "Lose the MAPS"e   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 09 May 2002 18:58:36 GMTt# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>n Subject: Re: HP Product RoadmaplI Message-ID: <wFzC8.27286$GLp1.19256@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>   < "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com> wrote in message3 news:3iyC8.4766$1B.219@rwcrnsc51.ops.asp.att.net...e >e0 > "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> wrote in message@ > news:4m8C8.117$QOT.113@news02.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com... > >o
 > > ......    C > > Which means that HP will in effect be actively discouraging anyg	 expansiona > ofK > > the VMS install base outside of existing customers and those *very* fewh > HPTC1 > > environments where nothing but Alpha will do.c > >s >tI > It may be early enough in the cycle to convince HPQ of the error in itsiJ > ways. Remember, we are no longer dealing with the Usual Compaq Suspects.   Terry,  L I hate to disagree with you, but look at what we have in the HPQ org chart -K Carly, who has the power to make definitive and clear statements of supportoD and enthusiasm for VMS, but doesn't; Capellas, who is no fan of VMS;K Winkler, who couldn't spell any 3-letter acronym much less tell you what itaL means; the rest of the senior HP crew who have spent the careers disparagingD VMS in competitive sales; the poor beaten-about-the-head VMS productL managers who apparently learned that you can't fight city hall; and the rest# are mostly Carly or Curly acolytes.n  F I once worked at an extremely large investment bank in the early 80's.K Although I had but a few people at my disposal (about 5 max.), my group andpH I developed and delivered applications globally on my group's VAX'en andL lousy x.25 PAD  that not only saved the firm millions of dollars annually inL staffing costs, but provided approximately $40 MM additional pre-tax profitsI annually through the ability to do deals more efficiently and more often,nL with less risk. And IT wasn't my responsibility - I was in charge of a groupJ of fixed income quantitative analysts!!!  We were delivering more value toJ the firm in the front-office and back-office than the entire IT departmentJ with over 100 people and about $10MM worth of Tandem gear. But the EVP wasL being advised by the head of the IT department.  It was clear to anyone withJ 1/2 a brain that it was obviously a case of the uninformed being guided byD the misinformed. I could go on at length about the money wasted, theJ opportunities lost, the delays, the lack of functionality delivered by the IT department.  G Suffice it to say that once any management gets into a certain mindset,tK there is nothing short of a .45 bullet at the base of the neck to make theml change their mind.  G I believe the parallel to this small story holds true at HP until I seeo" positive evidence to the contrary.  $ I am not sanguine about the furture.   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 09 May 2002 21:24:18 GMTi1 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com>a Subject: Re: HP Product Roadmapy* Message-ID: <6OBC8.6062$UV4.112@rwcrnsc54>  . "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> wrote in messageC news:wFzC8.27286$GLp1.19256@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com...) >N> > "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com> wrote in message5 > news:3iyC8.4766$1B.219@rwcrnsc51.ops.asp.att.net...e > >w2 > > "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> wrote in messageB > > news:4m8C8.117$QOT.113@news02.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com... > > >l > > > ...... >e >hE > > > Which means that HP will in effect be actively discouraging anyn > expansionp > > ofI > > > the VMS install base outside of existing customers and those *very*l fewd > > HPTC3 > > > environments where nothing but Alpha will do.d > > >t > >tK > > It may be early enough in the cycle to convince HPQ of the error in its L > > ways. Remember, we are no longer dealing with the Usual Compaq Suspects. >o > Terry, >uF > I hate to disagree with you, but look at what we have in the HPQ org chart -aE > Carly, who has the power to make definitive and clear statements of  support F > and enthusiasm for VMS, but doesn't; Capellas, who is no fan of VMS;  K I can't speak for either of those folks and I remain baffled as to why theyeJ didn't take the time to say the right things... it certainly wouldn't have hurt.   D You will know when I've thrown in the towel... I'll pull the plug onF SKwhatever, because I'll be damned if I'll do SKuSoftandIntel. There's) enough trade press around to do that! ;-}b   ------------------------------  + Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 01:02:11 +0000 (UTC)t  From: mustang@ucc.asn.au.invalid Subject: Re: HP Product Roadmapi* Message-ID: <abf66j$h5q$1@enyo.uwa.edu.au>  0 Terry C. Shannon <terryshannon@attbi.com> wrote:  > : "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com> wrote in message7 : news:1kZB8.95042$WV1.28883107@typhoon.ne.ipsvc.net...g :>= :> "Stuart, Ed" <Ed.Stuart@austinenergy.com> wrote in message. :>N : news:92EFB80E551BD511B39500D0B7B0CDCC0642C3D7@ohms.electric.ci.austin.tx.us. :> ..n, :> > The HP Product Roadmap can be found at:9 :> > http://www.hp.com/hpinfo/newsroom/press/07may02b.htmc :> >4 :> > There is one and only one reference to OpenVMS. :>> :> Yep. No change to committed roadmap, products, or IPF port. :>M :> Whether HPQ plans to get stabilize the base and (try to) minimize customer L :> and ISV attrition, or whether the firm plans to try to grow the business, :> remains to be seen. :>  N : Perhaps some positively-worded (at this point NOBODY in HPQ wants to receiveJ : any more bashing, deserved or not) suggestions and statements of support! : might help. They couldn't hurt.y  I Awww, the poor widdle diddums are getting upset by the naughty customers? C Awww, don't worry pwecious, we'll make the bad customers go away...   G If they can't take the time to allay the fears of long-time proponents,e  they hardly deserve your custom.   D. --  % " I don't get mad.... I get stabby. "- - William "Fat Tony" Williams.   ------------------------------   Date: 9 May 2002 18:19:36 -0700t. From: csabah@zipworld.com.au (CSABA HARANGOZO) Subject: Re: HP Product Roadmapb: Message-ID: <df779b76.0205091719.57400@posting.google.com>   "Stuart, Ed" <Ed.Stuart@austinenergy.com> wrote in message news:<92EFB80E551BD511B39500D0B7B0CDCC0642C3D7@ohms.electric.ci.austin.tx.us>... ) > The HP Product Roadmap can be found at:n6 > http://www.hp.com/hpinfo/newsroom/press/07may02b.htm > 1 > There is one and only one reference to OpenVMS.u >  > -->Ed G > **Please apply a generous amount of all the usual disclaimers here.**o  0   Another URL to try ( it didn't work for me ) :  @   http://hpnow.corp.hp.com/vision-strategy/strategy/roadmaps.htm  I   I could include the "message", but it is longish and most of it already    discussed in this thread...fE                                                      Cheers,    Csaba    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 02:51:22 GMT-1 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com>2 Subject: Re: HP Product Roadmapf8 Message-ID: <KAGC8.6208$1B.63@rwcrnsc51.ops.asp.att.net>  - <mustang@ucc.asn.au.invalid> wrote in message.$ news:abf66j$h5q$1@enyo.uwa.edu.au...2 > Terry C. Shannon <terryshannon@attbi.com> wrote: >c@ > : "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com> wrote in message9 > : news:1kZB8.95042$WV1.28883107@typhoon.ne.ipsvc.net...h > :>? > :> "Stuart, Ed" <Ed.Stuart@austinenergy.com> wrote in messagen > :> > :iL news:92EFB80E551BD511B39500D0B7B0CDCC0642C3D7@ohms.electric.ci.austin.tx.us. > :> ..f. > :> > The HP Product Roadmap can be found at:; > :> > http://www.hp.com/hpinfo/newsroom/press/07may02b.htmf > :> >6 > :> > There is one and only one reference to OpenVMS. > :>@ > :> Yep. No change to committed roadmap, products, or IPF port. > :>F > :> Whether HPQ plans to get stabilize the base and (try to) minimize customerD > :> and ISV attrition, or whether the firm plans to try to grow the	 business,8 > :> remains to be seen. > :> >yH > : Perhaps some positively-worded (at this point NOBODY in HPQ wants to receive L > : any more bashing, deserved or not) suggestions and statements of support# > : might help. They couldn't hurt.r >rK > Awww, the poor widdle diddums are getting upset by the naughty customers?eE > Awww, don't worry pwecious, we'll make the bad customers go away...S > I > If they can't take the time to allay the fears of long-time proponents, " > they hardly deserve your custom.    B WELL STATED! Hey, why don't you and all your pals (all of whom areH stockholders, decision-makers with significant purchasing authority, andK otherwise of interest to HPQ, no doubt!) forward a carbon copy of the above ) compelling missive to the widdle diddums.t  F I am sure you will get positive results from such a cerebral and adult undertaking.   hehehehehehehe   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 03:02:41 GMTo# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>  Subject: Re: HP Product RoadmapaI Message-ID: <lLGC8.29052$GLp1.22566@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>2  ; "CSABA HARANGOZO" <csabah@zipworld.com.au> wrote in message 4 news:df779b76.0205091719.57400@posting.google.com...< > "Stuart, Ed" <Ed.Stuart@austinenergy.com> wrote in messageL news:<92EFB80E551BD511B39500D0B7B0CDCC0642C3D7@ohms.electric.ci.austin.tx.us >...+ > > The HP Product Roadmap can be found at:o8 > > http://www.hp.com/hpinfo/newsroom/press/07may02b.htm > > 3 > > There is one and only one reference to OpenVMS.u > >e	 > > -->Ed I > > **Please apply a generous amount of all the usual disclaimers here.**- >-2 >   Another URL to try ( it didn't work for me ) : >@B >   http://hpnow.corp.hp.com/vision-strategy/strategy/roadmaps.htm >e  & Note the "vision-strategy" in the URL.  K I think they are confusion the concepts of vision and strategy with that ofc "hallucination".   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 03:11:12 GMTn* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> Subject: Re: HP Product RoadmaprB Message-ID: <kTGC8.126003$n7.11057160@bin8.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>  < "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com> wrote in message2 news:KAGC8.6208$1B.63@rwcrnsc51.ops.asp.att.net... > / > <mustang@ucc.asn.au.invalid> wrote in messagei& > news:abf66j$h5q$1@enyo.uwa.edu.au...4 > > Terry C. Shannon <terryshannon@attbi.com> wrote: > >dB > > : "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com> wrote in message; > > : news:1kZB8.95042$WV1.28883107@typhoon.ne.ipsvc.net...i > > :>A > > :> "Stuart, Ed" <Ed.Stuart@austinenergy.com> wrote in messageo > > :> > > :t >sL news:92EFB80E551BD511B39500D0B7B0CDCC0642C3D7@ohms.electric.ci.austin.tx.us.	 > > :> .. 0 > > :> > The HP Product Roadmap can be found at:= > > :> > http://www.hp.com/hpinfo/newsroom/press/07may02b.htmu > > :> >8 > > :> > There is one and only one reference to OpenVMS. > > :>B > > :> Yep. No change to committed roadmap, products, or IPF port. > > :>H > > :> Whether HPQ plans to get stabilize the base and (try to) minimize
 > customerF > > :> and ISV attrition, or whether the firm plans to try to grow the > business,n > > :> remains to be seen. > > :> > >aJ > > : Perhaps some positively-worded (at this point NOBODY in HPQ wants to	 > receiveIF > > : any more bashing, deserved or not) suggestions and statements of supporta% > > : might help. They couldn't hurt.m > > B > > Awww, the poor widdle diddums are getting upset by the naughty
 customers?G > > Awww, don't worry pwecious, we'll make the bad customers go away...  > >-K > > If they can't take the time to allay the fears of long-time proponents,e$ > > they hardly deserve your custom. >R >HD > WELL STATED! Hey, why don't you and all your pals (all of whom areJ > stockholders, decision-makers with significant purchasing authority, andG > otherwise of interest to HPQ, no doubt!) forward a carbon copy of then abovea+ > compelling missive to the widdle diddums.e >hH > I am sure you will get positive results from such a cerebral and adult > undertaking. >t > hehehehehehehe  L Guess Terry's hitting the bottle at night again.  Hope he doesn't persist inK the 'hehehe's - it's too much like a drooler over in comp.sys.intel who hass that habit.e   - bill   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 09 May 2002 19:50:23 GMT % From: Milton <mbhewitt@optonline.net>t, Subject: Re: HP Roadmap: OpenVMS, Tru64 safe8 Message-ID: <2mklduki50efmf5702qpqdqlplpelqchlp@4ax.com>  4 On Thu, 09 May 2002 17:21:28 GMT, "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com> wrote:i   > G >"Phillip Helbig" <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> wrote in messagem6 >news:01KHHQXJQZFM8Y8ZDE@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com...J >> > Decision: HP will continue with the previously published roadmaps forJ >> > both PA-RISC and AlphaServer systems. HP will continue development ofJ >> > the PA-8800 and PA-8900 processors, as well as the EV7 and EV79 Alpha> >> > processors. The roles of these two families will be quiteC >> > different. The PA-RISC servers will be targeted at the PA-RISCtK >> > installed base and all new business opportunities. AlphaServer systemst> >> > will be primarily focused on the Alpha installed base and* >> > high-performance technical computing. >>I >> The big question is, what about Itanium servers?  ASSUMING all productcF >> lines will be consolidated on Itanium in the near future, the aboveG >> makes perfect sense and does not NECESSARILY bode badly for VMS.  It]I >> WOULD be silly to sell ALPHA to new customers, only to migrate them toi >> Itanium later.o >vI >Would it, though? Let's say you need an enterprise system or HPTC systemlF >NOW, not at such time that IPF is an acceptable substitute for Alpha. >Whatcha gonna do???  0 Buy something with a future, like IBM or Sun. :)   Cheers,k Milton   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 12:09:39 +1000m/ From: "Phil Howell" <phowell@snowyhydro.com.au> ? Subject: Re: Invalid Directory File Sequence - Best way to fix?e2 Message-ID: <Q_FC8.5483$Q85.304209@ozemail.com.au>  8 "Todd Nelson" <toddnelson_@hotmail.com> wrote in message7 news:abeeb4de.0205090501.63b38348@posting.google.com...  > Hello all. > K > I ran $analyze disk_structure /repair /confirm on one of the disks on ouroL > Alpha 4000 and got the following message.  I chose not to repair the errorH > within this context - I would like to know more about what is going to > happen if I do, etc. >  > The error is as follows:J > -ANALDISK-I-BAD_DIRFIDSEQ, invalid file sequence number in directory filH > %ANALDISK-W-DIRNAME, directory file [OFFICE]THERAPY.DIR;2 is not named
 > '.DIR;1' >d# > $dir [.office]therapy.dir returnst > K > THERAPY.DIR;2                13   9-JUN-2001 09:59:21.67  [(UIC REMOVED)]eK > THERAPY.DIR;1                25   9-JUN-2001 09:57:48.27  [(UIC REMOVED)]e >tJ > When I do $set def [.THERAPY], I get into a directory and can see files,G > etc.  However, I do not know if I am in version 1 or version 2 of theo3 > directory.  I would guess that I am in version 2.. >dL > What is the best/safest way to correct this problem while making sure thatL > if there are indeed files in the first version of the directory, that I do > not lose them.9 Do a DIR/FULL to see if both have the directory attributeoC If both are directories then rename the version ;2 to newname.dir;1a or use SETr   FILE     /NODIRECTORY  D        Use with extreme caution. Requires SYSPRV (system privilege).  C        Removes the directory attributes of a file and allows you tooB        delete the corrupted directory file even if other files areH        contained in the directory. When you delete a corrupted directory4        file, the files contained within it are lost.  C        Use ANALYZE/DISK_STRUCTURE/REPAIR to place the lost files inlF        [SYSLOST]. You can then copy the lost files to a new directory.H        This qualifier is valid only for Files-11 On-Disk Structure LevelF        2 files. For more information about the Verify utility, see the<        OpenVMS System Management Utilities Reference Manual. Phil   ------------------------------   Date: 10 May 02 07:35:51 +0200) From: p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture) ? Subject: Re: Invalid Directory File Sequence - Best way to fix?t) Message-ID: <37L97$TS4Dp8@elias.decus.ch>   k In article <abeeb4de.0205090501.63b38348@posting.google.com>, toddnelson_@hotmail.com (Todd Nelson) writes:h > Hello all. > K > I ran $analyze disk_structure /repair /confirm on one of the disks on our L > Alpha 4000 and got the following message.  I chose not to repair the errorH > within this context - I would like to know more about what is going to > happen if I do, etc. >  > The error is as follows:J > -ANALDISK-I-BAD_DIRFIDSEQ, invalid file sequence number in directory filH > %ANALDISK-W-DIRNAME, directory file [OFFICE]THERAPY.DIR;2 is not named
 > '.DIR;1' > # > $dir [.office]therapy.dir returns  > K > THERAPY.DIR;2                13   9-JUN-2001 09:59:21.67  [(UIC REMOVED)]MK > THERAPY.DIR;1                25   9-JUN-2001 09:57:48.27  [(UIC REMOVED)]  > J > When I do $set def [.THERAPY], I get into a directory and can see files,G > etc.  However, I do not know if I am in version 1 or version 2 of the 3 > directory.  I would guess that I am in version 2.t > C I believe that you are in fact seeing the contents of therapy.dir;1t  L > What is the best/safest way to correct this problem while making sure thatL > if there are indeed files in the first version of the directory, that I do > not lose them. >   K Rename therapy.dir;2 to something else. Maybe try DUMP on it to see what its	 contains.n   __
 Paul Sture Switzerlandc   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 09 May 2002 15:06:07 -0400d2 From: Atlant Schmidt <atlantnospam@mindspring.com>A Subject: Re: MacOS/X is the leading Unix (was "Itanium Troubles")c- Message-ID: <3CDAC89F.2403127@mindspring.com>    Paul Repacholi wrote:r  9 > Remind me, what sort of Mac did they use for Titanic...u$ > (::slap::spell it right::slap:: :)  : I believe that was produced on a render farm full of those; "Alpha" computers. But I can't remember who made those. :-)a1 'Shame they never sold Alpha chips to Apple, ehh?i   Atlant   ------------------------------   Date: 10 May 02 07:37:09 +0200) From: p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture)hA Subject: Re: MacOS/X is the leading Unix (was "Itanium Troubles")g) Message-ID: <P4ssgbo5zgZK@elias.decus.ch>!  c In article <6OCC$uVdRc6I@eisner.encompasserve.org>, koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes:eW > In article <UQoyjQWUe8aX@elias.decus.ch>, p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture) writes:n > @ >> Do the US versions ask one to feed 3 CDs at first switch on?  > " >    Mine just powered on and ran. >  Thanks for the confirmation. __
 Paul Sture Switzerlandd   ------------------------------   Date: 10 May 02 07:42:53 +0200) From: p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture)eA Subject: Re: MacOS/X is the leading Unix (was "Itanium Troubles")e) Message-ID: <9eZdYVhxpdW8@elias.decus.ch>n  N In article <3CDA7A23.3020508@hp.com>, John Reagan <john.reagan@hp.com> writes: > Bob Koehler wrote:X >> In article <UQoyjQWUe8aX@elias.decus.ch>, p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture) writes: >>   >> m@ >>>Do the US versions ask one to feed 3 CDs at first switch on?  >> a >> h# >>    Mine just powered on and ran.T >> C > B > Same here.  With my iMac at home, I just plugged in the AC, the K > keyboard, the mouse, pushed the power button and up came 10.1.something. rJ >   It did start asking about how I want to connect to the Internet, if I < > wanted to find an ISP, etc., but you can skip that wizard. > J I see I got the brain dead version then. I couldn't skip the Internet bit,J except by hitting the Reset button. Quite frankly I was extremely close to asking for my money back.r  L Can you please suggest a decent Mac newsgroup for a computer literate person who is a Mac novice?   __
 Paul Sture Switzerland    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 01:11:35 GMTe1 From: LESLIE@JRLVAX.HOUSTON.RR.COM (Jerry Leslie)i< Subject: Microsoft's File-share Rule Makes Waves (For Samba)9 Message-ID: <b7FC8.8149$721.414792@typhoon.austin.rr.com>a% Keywords: microsoft,smb,cifs,monopolyw  H A VMS/Samba or VMS/CIFS system could be a nice reliable file server for G the SOHO market where a Windows domain wasn't needed. VMS Backup has tot0 be at least 10 years ahead of Windows' NTBACKUP.  F Microsoft can be expected to defeat any alleged penalty handed down by
 the courts...   ,    http://news.com.com/2100-1001-904017.htmlA    Microsoft's file-share rule makes waves - Tech News - CNET.comh  *    Microsoft's file-share rule makes waves    By Stephen Shankland     Staff Writer, CNET News.com    May 9, 2002, 9:45 AM PT  F    Microsoft has opened a new chapter in its long-running dispute with?    open-source software developers--and it could have antitruste    implications.    2B    In late March, Microsoft published a document that outlines howH    third-party developers can use Common Internet File Sharing (CIFS), aG    protocol developed by Microsoft that specifies how Windows PCs sharen    files with servers.    eI    Though publishing the document should make it easier to write software E    that incorporates CIFS, it contains a crucial restriction that has5&    instead handcuffed some developers.    .I    Specifically, Microsoft requires programmers to sign an agreement that>E    prohibits using information in the document when building softwareeC    governed by the General Public License (GPL). Among the productscB    affected by the restriction is Samba, widely used software thatI    competes with file sharing technology in Microsoft's Windows operatingi>    system. Samba uses CIFS to communicate with client systems.    sC    "In brief, it sucks," said Jeremy Allison, a leader of the SambaOF    project. He called Microsoft's agreement "a direct attack" on Samba    and the GPL.e    f	    [snip]       The antitrust connectiony  D    Meanwhile, CIFS and Samba have emerged as an issue in Microsoft'sB    antitrust trial. A part of the settlement requires Microsoft toE    disclose server-communication protocols to ensure that the company G    cannot make Windows desktop software work better with its own server *    software than with that of competitors.    lI    In the remedy hearings with Microsoft and the non-settling states lasttD    week, Microsoft's opponents raised CIFS questions with Rob Short,I    corporate vice president in charge of the innards of Windows, who said 0    the technology is governed by the settlement.    aH    "Some of our competitors have been complaining that they are not ableG    to fully interoperate with some of these protocols, and we've agreedoF    to make the protocols completely available. So I thought that would*    solve the complaints," Short testified.    pF    But that's the rub: The protocols are available to those willing toB    sign Microsoft's license agreement prohibiting their use in GPL    projects.    rG    In a statement posted in March, Microsoft said it would license CIFSaF    technology used in the older Windows NT 4.0. In August, the companyE    will make a similar move with "proprietary enhancements" to Server-D    Message Block (SMB)--the foundation on which CIFS is built. ThoseD    enhancements are already used in the more modern Windows 2000 and    Windows XP.    8H    Additionally, Microsoft disagrees that its patents are irrelevant and-    says they apply to more than just Windows.a     H    "Microsoft reviewed the two identified patents and believes that theyA    are necessary for the implementation of the CIFS communication2E    protocol as set forth in the technical reference," Michele Herman,aE    director of intellectual property strategy at Microsoft, said in a1
    statement.C    C<    The company said a CIFS implementation based on differentI    documentation wouldn't necessarily require the patents to be licensed,e    however.t     H    Microsoft's patent stance is complicated by its earlier submission ofE    CIFS to the Internet Engineering Task Force, said Claude Stern, anWH    intellectual property lawyer with Palo Alto, Calif., law firm FenwickI    & West. "You shouldn't be able to sue somebody for patent infringementiC    when you were trying to make what is the subject of the patent al    standard," he said.    Y?    Samba programmers are further protected if they ensure their)@    implementation of CIFS isn't based on the Microsoft technical    reference, Stern said.     w:    Indeed, that's a precaution Allison said he is taking."    H --Jerry Leslie   leslie@clio.rice.edu  (my opinions are strictly my own)9   Note: leslie@jrlvax.houston.rr.com is invalid for email    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 01:37:45 GMTh* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>@ Subject: Re: Microsoft's File-share Rule Makes Waves (For Samba)B Message-ID: <JvFC8.135186$N8.10903821@bin5.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>  > "Jerry Leslie" <LESLIE@JRLVAX.HOUSTON.RR.COM> wrote in message3 news:b7FC8.8149$721.414792@typhoon.austin.rr.com... I > A VMS/Samba or VMS/CIFS system could be a nice reliable file server for-I > the SOHO market where a Windows domain wasn't needed. VMS Backup has toy2 > be at least 10 years ahead of Windows' NTBACKUP. >DH > Microsoft can be expected to defeat any alleged penalty handed down by > the courts...a  K While my automatic inclination is to join in in trashing MS here, on secondoG thought I'm not sure I have any more problem with the restrictions it's K placing on its SMB intellectual property than with the restrictions the GPL J places on GPLed intellectual property:  both restrict use of said propertyJ unless the user meets certain conditions, and if one is acceptable then soL is the other (even though one or, in my case, both may not be what one might. *like*, compared with, e.g., the BSD license).  J The effect would seem to be simple:  open-source software is still free toJ use the MS information, just not to use it in GPLed code.  Linux certainlyF allows non-GPLed code to be used on the system, even in the kernel (asK loadable modules, IIRC), so no problem there:  it just means that Samba (or,F an alternative, or some isolatable portion that uses the MS IP) cannotJ itself be GPLed - not what the FSF would like, but not any real impedimentF to users (just an impediment to those who would prefer to use Samba toG extend the viral scope of the GPL - but that's politics, not software).    - bill   ------------------------------  * Date: Thu, 9 May 2002 20:50:23 +0000 (UTC), From: "pos" <paul.osullivan3@btinternet.com>' Subject: Re: Observing HSx performancese/ Message-ID: <abenee$m7h$1@paris.btinternet.com>s  I if doing CP work response time is a more relavent metric that utilisationd  I Do you have ECP (now PerfCap) capacity planner. That would let you 'draw'EJ your system with hs devices, plot out the raid type and derive controller, bus and disk usage. K Good thing about ECP Planner is that you can override default disk and raidp# configs, and actually get it right.>  / I use it all the time for this sort of thing...   > that is the only way I get a relative idea of controller util.  G - psdc stopped working with ECP at CA Unicenter 2.1-5 so you may need a  decent collector   www.pawz.wsa    , "Roy Omond" <Roy@Omond.net> wrote in message# news:3CDA37BE.8C9BD4E8@Omond.net...m > Roose Chua wrote:  >  > > Hi!  > >hI > > I would be doing some capacity planning on our systems and aside fromIH > > the regular CPU/memory utilizations, I would like to see the currentH > > performance of our HSx controllers. Could someone recommend the bestH > > way I could get some data on this? We have some Alpha 1200 and GS60s+ > > with OpenVMS 7.2 and PSDC/PSPA on them.e >g? > Best way I know of is to "watch" the performance using VTDPY.a >o > Roy Omondr > Blue Bubble Ltd. >r   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 9 May 2002 14:59:14 -0700# From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com>h Subject: ODL bugsk9 Message-ID: <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIKEECEPAA.tom@kednos.com>   . Maybe someone at hpq will see this and fix it.  0  1.  Make search work in ODL running on windows.@  2.  Allow ODL for VMS and Tru64 to coexist.  If you try install=      one and then the other, the second overwrites the first, #      They have the same names, duh.  --- & Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.: Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).? Version: 6.0.360 / Virus Database: 199 - Release Date: 5/7/2002-   ------------------------------   Date: 9 May 2002 13:53:19 -0700o% From: rnturn@baxter.com (Rick Turner): Subject: Re: Powered by HP= Message-ID: <9697b9e2.0205091253.396157d6@posting.google.com>9  q "Dave Gudewicz" <david.gudewicz@abbott.com> wrote in message news:<abdvke$26u$1@fizban.fizban.pprd.abbott.com>....M > Interesting.  It took much longer to get the Chicagoland signs changed fromeN > DIGITAL to COMPAQ a few years back.  But they (hp) did have over 8 months to > prepare for this.  >  > --	 > Dave...e >   @ But, if memory serves, it was only a week or so after the CompaqE purchase of Digital before we had a visit from field service the solelD purpose of which was to apply Compaq stickers over the Digital logos on the CPU cabinets.   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 9 May 2002 16:09:10 -0500/ From: "Stuart, Ed" <Ed.Stuart@austinenergy.com>s Subject: RE: Powered by HPT Message-ID: <92EFB80E551BD511B39500D0B7B0CDCC0642C3F1@ohms.electric.ci.austin.tx.us>  D Wow, that never happened to us.  We still have Digital AlphaServers.   EdE **Please apply a generous amount of all the usual disclaimers here.**      > -----Original Message-----4 > From: rnturn@baxter.com [mailto:rnturn@baxter.com]& > Sent: Thursday, May 09, 2002 3:53 PM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comg > Subject: Re: Powered by HP >  > ? > "Dave Gudewicz" <david.gudewicz@abbott.com> wrote in message t6 > news:<abdvke$26u$1@fizban.fizban.pprd.abbott.com>...= > > Interesting.  It took much longer to get the Chicagoland n > signs changed from@ > > DIGITAL to COMPAQ a few years back.  But they (hp) did have  > over 8 months to > > prepare for this.j > >  > > -- > > Dave...F > >  > B > But, if memory serves, it was only a week or so after the CompaqG > purchase of Digital before we had a visit from field service the soleaF > purpose of which was to apply Compaq stickers over the Digital logos > on the CPU cabinets. >    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 09 May 2002 21:11:55 GMTf1 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com>  Subject: Re: Powered by HP: Message-ID: <vCBC8.6484$Po6.702@rwcrnsc52.ops.asp.att.net>  . "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> wrote in messageC news:OnxC8.26090$GLp1.14253@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com...  >A> > "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com> wrote in message6 > news:DswC8.5417$Po6.299@rwcrnsc52.ops.asp.att.net... > >  > >RH > > Compaq had plenty of time to prepare for the Compaq-tion, too. Looks likeI > > HPQ has its stuff together far better than Eckhard's Army did several  > years  > > ago. > >AJ > > So apparently Curly and Carly profited from prior gaffes. That is IMHO an > > auspicious sign! >r >nG > So they had plenty of time to carefully word their vacuous statementshF > regarding the importance of OpenVMS. Exactly the kind of statement a lawyerH > would write when they want allow their client to weasel out of a deal. >   K Yes indeed! The best thing you can do at this point is sell your HPQ shares K and immediately decommission your CPQ or HP enterprise data center in favor , of IBM or Sun or Dell kit. That'll show 'em!  J Actually, CPQ had just as much time to carefully word statements when theyC assimilated DEC. They didn't do very much in that regard, did they?e   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 09 May 2002 21:12:39 GMTr1 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com>l Subject: Re: Powered by HP: Message-ID: <bDBC8.6487$Po6.590@rwcrnsc52.ops.asp.att.net>  2 "Rick Turner" <rnturn@baxter.com> wrote in message7 news:9697b9e2.0205091253.396157d6@posting.google.com... > > "Dave Gudewicz" <david.gudewicz@abbott.com> wrote in message4 news:<abdvke$26u$1@fizban.fizban.pprd.abbott.com>...J > > Interesting.  It took much longer to get the Chicagoland signs changed fromF > > DIGITAL to COMPAQ a few years back.  But they (hp) did have over 8	 months to@ > > prepare for this.u > >  > > -- > > Dave...D > >o >FB > But, if memory serves, it was only a week or so after the CompaqG > purchase of Digital before we had a visit from field service the sole F > purpose of which was to apply Compaq stickers over the Digital logos > on the CPU cabinets.  H Umm, did they charge a warranty uplift, or didn't they learn enough from Computer Associates?   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 09 May 2002 18:51:49 -0400r- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>. Subject: Re: Powered by HP, Message-ID: <3CDAFD81.C413C42E@videotron.ca>   John Smith wrote:dG > So they had plenty of time to carefully word their vacuous statements M > regarding the importance of OpenVMS. Exactly the kind of statement a lawyerPH > would write when they want allow their client to weasel out of a deal.  9 There is no need to speculate on HP's commitment to VMS.    M It is quite simple: HP doesn't want to announce VMS's death yet. There may beeI strategic advantages to allowing its port to IA64 to complete, even it ito< isn't productized, or even if productized but not sold much.  E Also, as I have said many times, I believe the plan is to control the N attrition rate from VMS so that revenus from others sources can slowly replaceF lost VMS revenus. Doi it slowly and the loss of VMS doesn't show up inJ financials. Do it like Palmer did, and they show up big time. With this inL mind, it is logical for HP to not officially announce VMS as a mature OS and0 pretend that it continues on its present course.  F Stallard made a costly mistake in my opinion because his statement wasE premature. Once the "new" HP-UX is available on IA64 with some of theeL clustering etc, then, with a target product available, it woudl have been OK9 to start to say that HP-UX is good enough to replace VMS.:  N However, if you realise today that HP expects you to migrate off VMS to HP-UX,M and HP-UX isn't available yet, you will start to look at other products rightaM away, and that means Sun and IBM. This means that the attrition rate from VMS-1 will be higher than perhaps HP would have wished.    ------------------------------   Date: 10 May 02 07:32:02 +0200) From: p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture)g Subject: Re: Powered by HP) Message-ID: <9GLkVV91bBcn@elias.decus.ch>.  Z In article <udks3g9srj3pd1@corp.supernews.com>, "Mike Foley" <mike-spam@yelof.com> writes: > L >     I drove past MRO yesterday and the sign that said Compaq (nee Digital)J >     was replaced with a white sign with a blue HP logo. Visible from Rt. > 495S >  > M And I heard that my Local Compaq office gets its sign turned from red to blue- withing the next few days. __
 Paul Sture Switzerlandm   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 09 May 2002 18:24:19 GMTn1 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com>Y< Subject: Re: Scott Stallard, forget your VMS to HP UX dream!* Message-ID: <n9zC8.5687$UV4.119@rwcrnsc54>  5 "Bob Ceculski" <bob@instantwhip.com> wrote in message.7 news:d7791aa1.0205071046.57201e02@posting.google.com...>8 > So VMS is secure and the itanium port is also, but Mr.9 > Stallard, knock off the "we think the VMS to HP UX portd7 > idea is a great one" talk ... we are not leaving vms,u9 > and if you try to force us off of VMS it will not be toh > your unix garbage!   Well stated!   ------------------------------   Date: 9 May 2002 11:30:05 -0700t( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)< Subject: Re: Scott Stallard, forget your VMS to HP UX dream!= Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0205091030.5857582b@posting.google.com>i  } clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP (Simon Clubley) wrote in message news:<BaNqVAJuqofD@eisner.encompasserve.org>...  > I > Before I comment on what he actually said, I would just like to commenteL > that when you put something in quotes, it comes across as been the _exact_O > thing that was said. In this case, what he actually says is pretty bad (IMHO)tO > but not quite as bad as the above might lead someone to believe. Here is whatp0 > he actually said, cut-and-pasted from the PDF: > + > 		---------------------------------------d. > Q: Will you offer a migration path to HP-UX?5 > A: Yes. We believe HP-UX on Itanium is an excellenth0 > long-term choice for OpenVMS customers, but we5 > want to support them moving on their own timetable.e3 > We will be evaluating what new tools and services/2 > may be required to help them transition to HP-UX > if they so desire.+ > 		---------------------------------------s > / > Why do I think that the above is pretty bad ?  > K > Simple: on day 1 of a merger, the new owner of a product line (VMS) comesoH > along and makes a point of saying that we are giving you the option ofC > moving to another competing product. Why even say this ? The only F > justification would be if large numbers of current VMS customers areH > asking for this, in which case the above quote should have been wordedK > something along the lines of " ...OpenVMS customers who have asked us fors> > a migration option,..." instead of just "OpenVMS customers". > K > The above comes across strongly as needing to do the job of inserting thel0 > idea of migration into the minds of VMS users. >  > Simon.  G Sorry, I couldn't get stupid windoze to cut from the pdf ... but what It# stated is a good generalization ...i  D and as far as migration, we'll migrate all right, right over to IBM!G Screw HP printers, HP anything ... I'll call Canon the day they try it!aD If they have any brains, they will sell vms to Mentec or someone whoK wants to support it and actually make money from it ... if not, goodbye HP!t   ------------------------------   Date: 9 May 2002 19:04:33 GMTA1 From: bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)e< Subject: Re: Scott Stallard, forget your VMS to HP UX dream!, Message-ID: <abeh81$29bb$4@info.cs.uofs.edu>  = In article <d7791aa1.0205091030.5857582b@posting.google.com>,u+  bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski) writes:o |>G |> If they have any brains, they will sell vms to Mentec or someone whoo; |> wants to support it and actually make money from it ... t  5 1. I doubt Mentec has any interest in VMS whatsoever, C 2. If they did take it over you could very likely kiss the HobbyistM    program good-bye.B 3, If you think getting back into education is a plus you won't be    joining a kindred spirit.     bill   -- dJ Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   w   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 09 May 2002 19:47:15 GMT * From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>< Subject: Re: Scott Stallard, forget your VMS to HP UX dream!@ Message-ID: <7nAC8.73653$M7.6945774@bin7.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>  5 "Bob Ceculski" <bob@instantwhip.com> wrote in message 7 news:d7791aa1.0205091030.5857582b@posting.google.com...e   ...   > > Sorry, I couldn't get stupid windoze to cut from the pdf ...  J And you could have done this on VMS?  I suspect it wasn't Windows that was stupid.e  8 Hint:  the 'text select' tool in Acrobat is your friend.   - bill   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 09 May 2002 21:14:41 GMT.1 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com>t< Subject: Re: Scott Stallard, forget your VMS to HP UX dream!9 Message-ID: <5FBC8.5209$1B.330@rwcrnsc51.ops.asp.att.net>f  5 "Bob Ceculski" <bob@instantwhip.com> wrote in messaget7 news:d7791aa1.0205080457.247f1661@posting.google.com... > > "Dave Gudewicz" <david.gudewicz@abbott.com> wrote in message4 news:<ab9c36$68v$1@fizban.fizban.pprd.abbott.com>...J > > I just sent Mr. Stallard an email regarding this and suggested hp alsoH > > provide tools and service for those wishing to mograte from hp-ux to > > OpenVMS.  Seems only fair. > >  > > -- > > Dave...p > >  >nA > and that makes more sense because didn't Capellas say that unixr > was done for?a  I He said midrange Unix would be eviscerated. By Windoze (and presumably byl Linux.).   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 00:13:20 +0100aU From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <andrew_nospam.harrison_remove_this@sun#.com>l< Subject: Re: Scott Stallard, forget your VMS to HP UX dream!0 Message-ID: <abevqg$erb$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   Bob Ceculski wrote:    > clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP (Simon Clubley) wrote in message news:<BaNqVAJuqofD@eisner.encompasserve.org>...r > I >>Before I comment on what he actually said, I would just like to commentlL >>that when you put something in quotes, it comes across as been the _exact_O >>thing that was said. In this case, what he actually says is pretty bad (IMHO).O >>but not quite as bad as the above might lead someone to believe. Here is whatD0 >>he actually said, cut-and-pasted from the PDF: >>+ >>		---------------------------------------R. >>Q: Will you offer a migration path to HP-UX?5 >>A: Yes. We believe HP-UX on Itanium is an excellent 0 >>long-term choice for OpenVMS customers, but we5 >>want to support them moving on their own timetable. 3 >>We will be evaluating what new tools and servicesi2 >>may be required to help them transition to HP-UX >>if they so desire.+ >>		---------------------------------------l >>/ >>Why do I think that the above is pretty bad ?M >>K >>Simple: on day 1 of a merger, the new owner of a product line (VMS) comestH >>along and makes a point of saying that we are giving you the option ofC >>moving to another competing product. Why even say this ? The only F >>justification would be if large numbers of current VMS customers areH >>asking for this, in which case the above quote should have been wordedK >>something along the lines of " ...OpenVMS customers who have asked us for > >>a migration option,..." instead of just "OpenVMS customers". >>K >>The above comes across strongly as needing to do the job of inserting ther0 >>idea of migration into the minds of VMS users. >> >>Simon. >> > I > Sorry, I couldn't get stupid windoze to cut from the pdf ... but what Ia% > stated is a good generalization ...t >     ? Ahh so you are using Windows an OS you consider to be a uselessF@ piece of crap that no user in their right mind would use to post7 to this group.(Your views expressed in another thread).t  1 Shame the retoric and the reality don't coincide.s  = I on the other hand agree and don't use Windows, I am postingh> this from a SunRay display to a Solaris server. Netscape 6.2.2< Gnome, StarOffice not a MS product in view. When you can say: the same using you chosen non windows OS, office suite and7 browser then get back to us otherwise carping about hows3 terrible the tools you have chosen to use is is notn attractive.d   regardsr Andrew Harrison   ? P.S I am responding on this thread because oddly you ducked the  question on anotherd   ------------------------------   Date: 9 May 2002 20:07:11 -0700i( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)< Subject: Re: Scott Stallard, forget your VMS to HP UX dream!= Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0205091907.700d0ef2@posting.google.com>c  r "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote in message news:<7nAC8.73653$M7.6945774@bin7.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>...7 > "Bob Ceculski" <bob@instantwhip.com> wrote in messageO9 > news:d7791aa1.0205091030.5857582b@posting.google.com...  >  > ...d > @ > > Sorry, I couldn't get stupid windoze to cut from the pdf ... > L > And you could have done this on VMS?  I suspect it wasn't Windows that was	 > stupid.n > : > Hint:  the 'text select' tool in Acrobat is your friend. >  > - bill  / I try to use windoze as little as possible ... e@ what can I say good about windoze, it is a lousy html client ...  0 Hint:  anything to do with windoze is no friend.   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 09 May 2002 21:31:07 GMT,1 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com>@0 Subject: Re: SKC Morphs Again... We're Now SKHPC* Message-ID: <vUBC8.3831$L76.195@rwcrnsc53>  2 "Dean Woodward" <deanw@rdrop.com> wrote in message# news:3CD6F662.A0150427@rdrop.com...  > Terry C Shannon wrote: > >SI > > If there was a Big Change planned, would HPQ be inviting customers toeI > > Marvel prebriefings that include VMS information through the month of 
 > > November?s >rC > Mu.  Corporations love to play the secrecy game.  Did Compaq stopoH > announcing roadmaps for Alpha before the Alphacide, even though it was6 > apparently a done deal well before the announcement?  K Well, as of one year ago today, they certainly had not done so. I know this L for a fact, because I was in Brussels or Zurich extolling the virtues of the" enterprise strategy on 9 May 2001!  H Egg on the face? Yup. But not so much albumin as was on the faces of the% Compaq folks who were presenting! ;-}t  L Look, if HPQ reneges and kills Alpha/Marvel/Tru64/VMS in, say, three months,H they can say hasta la vista to at least $3B (probably well over $4B whenI services, etc, are factored in) in high-margin revenue. And if they thinkqK the customers who get stiffed will remain HPQ customers, well, the Word forp the Day will be EVISCERATE.p   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 09 May 2002 21:47:00 GMT-( From: spam@devnull.com (Russell Wallace)0 Subject: Re: SKC Morphs Again... We're Now SKHPC/ Message-ID: <3cdaee26.28000370@news.eircom.net>g  3 On Tue, 07 May 2002 16:48:11 GMT, "Fred Kleinsorge"e$ <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> wrote:  M >They tricked up the computer to beat a specific test.  It wont take long forgG >everyone else to bite te bullet and add the same optimization to their  >compilers.  >rL >There was no leap in hardware speed, and almost no user code will be faster >because of the trick.  A I'm still curious - what exactly was the trick they used? And whyiE won't it work on user code, given that the SPEC suite mostly consists1
 of user code?p   -- o3 "Mercy to the guilty is treachery to the innocent."g! http://www.esatclear.ie/~rwallacee mail:rw(at)eircom(dot)netA   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 00:02:04 +0100rU From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <andrew_nospam.harrison_remove_this@sun#.com>y0 Subject: Re: SKC Morphs Again... We're Now SKHPC0 Message-ID: <abev5c$enp$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   Russell Wallace wrote:  5 > On Tue, 07 May 2002 16:48:11 GMT, "Fred Kleinsorge"t& > <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> wrote: >  > N >>They tricked up the computer to beat a specific test.  It wont take long forH >>everyone else to bite te bullet and add the same optimization to their >>compilers. >>M >>There was no leap in hardware speed, and almost no user code will be faster0 >>because of the trick.r >> > C > I'm still curious - what exactly was the trick they used? And whymG > won't it work on user code, given that the SPEC suite mostly consists. > of user code?  >       2 Don't ask Freddy he doesn't know and has just made what he appears to know up.   7 I guess that the collective Alpha is a high performance 5 CPU BS hit the fan with Freddys claim that deliveringa6 good SPECfp performance would not translate into users; seing better perf for their apps. You need to look long andu; hard to find anything as flattering to Alpha as SPECint ande SPECfp.M  9 Freddy is after all a highly respected engineer who worksn4 for Compaq, what better source could you ask for ???  1 Alternatively turkeys and christmas come to mind.    Regardsl Andrew Harrison    ------------------------------   Date: 9 May 2002 15:01:09 -0500i+ From: kuhrt@encompasserve.org (Marty Kuhrt)s# Subject: Re: Stallards smoking gun! 3 Message-ID: <Xvj+f5GsjanK@eisner.encompasserve.org>i  l In article <20020509150816.5234.qmail@gacracker.org>, Doc.Cypher <Use-Author-Address-Header@[127.1]> writes:: > On 9 May 2002, bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski) wrote:0 >>"John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> wrote in messageG >>news:<z5gC8.17762$GLp1.15568@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>... 9 >>> "Bob Ceculski" <bob@instantwhip.com> wrote in message2< >>> news:d7791aa1.0205081057.1bd0f0b5@posting.google.com... @ >>> > it's right here in the pdf off of the openvms web site ...% >>> > in the bottom under VMS Q/A ...n >>> >t >>> >hO >>> > If VMS is being ported to Itanium, why would porting to hp ux be the beste >>> > alternative? h >>> P >>> Because if HP can use FUD on enough customers quickly to get them to port toN >>> HP/UX,  then they can pull the plug on the IA-64 port, notwithstanding the& >>> prior public statements otherwise. >>> O >>> Carly & Co. get paid by boosting the bottom line for HP. If they think thatgK >>> they can make more money for the company by strangling VMS, then that's L >>> exactly what they will do, without any regard for the customer impact it >>> will have. e >>A >>this was tried by Palmer w/NT ... us vms holdovers know better!e5 >>if we knew better then, we haven't lost our senses!DB >>if anything, we'll port to AS400/OS400 before we would ever port >>to unix garbage, esp. HP's!t > M > Did you ever communicate this "threat" to Compaq? Do you have any intentionfJ > of communicating it to HP? And, more to the point, do you honestly think > they care? >   C How would one communicate to Compaq (now HP)?  We couldn't get them C to listen when we wanted to buy hundreds of thousands of dollars ofbC Alphaservers with VMS instead of NT.  If they don't listen when youe> want to buy, what makes you think they'll listen when you are  threatening to walk?    @ I was looking at some old data center diagrams yesterday and wasA reminded of the time not too long ago when we had over four dozeneA VAXen running VMS that we wanted to port to Alpha.  After gettingu= the run around from CPQ our management decided to port to Suni@ instead of Alpha.  We now have dozens of Suns in the data center and NT/W2K running on Dell.  r  < The only Alpha and VMS we have is for the "failure is not an< option" systems.  Since most of our users and IT people wereA brought up on the NT/Sun stuff "schedule maintenance", "reboot to ; clear hang" and "bugfix/security patch" don't have the samed> negative connotations, it's just a part of the normal process.< And I can't say I blame them. Since they haven't ridden in a1 limo, they think the local muni bus is just fine.i   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 09 May 2002 20:31:40 GMTt# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>h# Subject: Re: Stallards smoking gun!iI Message-ID: <M0BC8.27891$GLp1.23743@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>   8 "Marty Kuhrt" <kuhrt@encompasserve.org> wrote in message- news:Xvj+f5GsjanK@eisner.encompasserve.org...e >gE > How would one communicate to Compaq (now HP)?  We couldn't get them.E > to listen when we wanted to buy hundreds of thousands of dollars of E > Alphaservers with VMS instead of NT.  If they don't listen when you ? > want to buy, what makes you think they'll listen when you arer > threatening to walk? > B > I was looking at some old data center diagrams yesterday and wasC > reminded of the time not too long ago when we had over four dozen-C > VAXen running VMS that we wanted to port to Alpha.  After getting ? > the run around from CPQ our management decided to port to SunSB > instead of Alpha.  We now have dozens of Suns in the data center > and NT/W2K running on Dell.C >l  L Almost makes you think that Compaq salespeople were compensated based on the8 number of VMS customers they could drive to Sun or Dell.   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 9 May 2002 16:07:22 -0500/ From: "Stuart, Ed" <Ed.Stuart@austinenergy.com>n# Subject: RE: Stallards smoking gun! T Message-ID: <92EFB80E551BD511B39500D0B7B0CDCC0642C3F0@ohms.electric.ci.austin.tx.us>  J You could send the folks at Compaq an email like Dave suggested in anotherL thread.  I sent my feelings to RM and got a response from Mark Gorham the VPH of OpenVMS.  His response was that they are in the process of fixing theL messages.  I'm going to wait and see what happens, but it felt good to get aG response.  Remember how successful the SUN users were in getting SUN totL re-think its position regarding Solaris on Intel?  If we, OpenVMS advocates,G want to get the message to the owner of OpenVMS then we should send thesG message to them, and encourage others who feel the same way (like otheroK Encompass members) to also get the message to them rather than just postingeE to the newsgroups.  There are only a few folks that post to the group-J regularly. We need each of us to let the folks at HP know what they can doH to market OpenVMS better, and how it will benefit their bottom line.  In= other words, don't just complain, but also bring suggestions.e   EdE **Please apply a generous amount of all the usual disclaimers here.**a     > -----Original Message-----@ > From: kuhrt@encompasserve.org [mailto:kuhrt@encompasserve.org]& > Sent: Thursday, May 09, 2002 3:01 PM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com % > Subject: Re: Stallards smoking gun!  >  > 8 > In article <20020509150816.5234.qmail@gacracker.org>, 8 > Doc.Cypher <Use-Author-Address-Header@[127.1]> writes:< > > On 9 May 2002, bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski) wrote:2 > >>"John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> wrote in message@ > >>news:<z5gC8.17762$GLp1.15568@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.roger > s.com>...e; > >>> "Bob Ceculski" <bob@instantwhip.com> wrote in messaget> > >>> news:d7791aa1.0205081057.1bd0f0b5@posting.google.com... B > >>> > it's right here in the pdf off of the openvms web site ...' > >>> > in the bottom under VMS Q/A ...l > >>> >o > >>> >o@ > >>> > If VMS is being ported to Itanium, why would porting to  > hp ux be the best  > >>> > alternative? t > >>> ? > >>> Because if HP can use FUD on enough customers quickly to , > get them to port tot= > >>> HP/UX,  then they can pull the plug on the IA-64 port, a > notwithstanding ther( > >>> prior public statements otherwise. > >>> ? > >>> Carly & Co. get paid by boosting the bottom line for HP.   > If they think that= > >>> they can make more money for the company by strangling a > VMS, then that's< > >>> exactly what they will do, without any regard for the  > customer impact it > >>> will have. P > >>C > >>this was tried by Palmer w/NT ... us vms holdovers know better!97 > >>if we knew better then, we haven't lost our senses!aD > >>if anything, we'll port to AS400/OS400 before we would ever port > >>to unix garbage, esp. HP's!e > > = > > Did you ever communicate this "threat" to Compaq? Do you t > have any intention> > > of communicating it to HP? And, more to the point, do you  > honestly think > > they care? > >  > E > How would one communicate to Compaq (now HP)?  We couldn't get thempE > to listen when we wanted to buy hundreds of thousands of dollars ofGE > Alphaservers with VMS instead of NT.  If they don't listen when youi@ > want to buy, what makes you think they'll listen when you are  > threatening to walk?   > B > I was looking at some old data center diagrams yesterday and wasC > reminded of the time not too long ago when we had over four dozenMC > VAXen running VMS that we wanted to port to Alpha.  After gettinga? > the run around from CPQ our management decided to port to SunMB > instead of Alpha.  We now have dozens of Suns in the data center > and NT/W2K running on Dell.  s > > > The only Alpha and VMS we have is for the "failure is not an> > option" systems.  Since most of our users and IT people wereC > brought up on the NT/Sun stuff "schedule maintenance", "reboot tow= > clear hang" and "bugfix/security patch" don't have the samer@ > negative connotations, it's just a part of the normal process.> > And I can't say I blame them. Since they haven't ridden in a3 > limo, they think the local muni bus is just fine.o >    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 09 May 2002 18:37:05 -0400t- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>e# Subject: Re: Stallards smoking gun!7, Message-ID: <3CDAFA0F.5C8CCF08@videotron.ca>   Bob Ceculski wrote:bJ > > Where is that famous secret letter you were so proudly talking about ? > E > vms has survived and will survive as I said, however, that does not B > mean the fight has ended ... this proves the same mentality that> > existed in Q has popped up in HP, and it must be confronted!  J Go back to your original statement about the letter. HP was supposed to be7 doing great things with VMS tyat we all be happy about.e  I None of that has happened. The statement by Stallard puts VMS on the same-L footing as Tru64. You cannot take the product roadmap by itself. You have toN consider that Carly has , for 8 months, taken active steps NOT to mention VMS.F You have to consider that, in the roadmap,  VMS takes up one line thatL essentially says that HP won't break contractual commitments that Compaq hadK made with customers. Nothing about fixing the lack of marketing or allowing. VMS to grow.  H And then comes the Stallard golden nugget about HP wishing VMS customers migrate to HP-UX.t  K HP hasn't had the guts to make the same declaration as it did for Tru64. It N doesn't need to because VMS is obscure and HP need not explain it to the mediaN (HP had to for Tru64 because HP had to show it was eliminating the duplication of 2 proprietary Unix).a  M But the fact remains that HP has given strong hints of its intentions. If youoK choose not to heed this, you will be caught with your pants down. Check outaK how quickly Carly moved on the logos etc etc. She won't be wasting any timep	 with VMS.v   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 09 May 2002 18:42:17 -0400r- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>o# Subject: Re: Stallards smoking gun!	, Message-ID: <3CDAFB46.95878698@videotron.ca>   "Doc.Cypher" wrote:hM > Where is this famous secret letter? Or was it written in vanishing ink likea& > so many "commitments" from the past?  L During the discussions about that letter, it was said that the letter was onI paper and good as a contract in terms of trusting HP and that it was goodeG enough for the owner of said letter to make corporate VMS decisions on.c  H If the letter was virtual, then it was just newsgroup fodder. But if theF letter was real, I hope that the owner of said letter now realises howI untrustworthy HP/Compaq are because they don't even care about stuff theyn? committed to customers unless it was signs and done by lawyers.o  E What puzzles me though is that Charlie Matco participated in this and M supposedly also saw said letter. And it was supposed to make people happy etcrL etc. Does Charlie Matco feel that said letter fairly represented the current& real roadmap (VMS migrates to HP-UX) ?   ------------------------------   Date: 9 May 2002 17:45:10 -0700s( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)# Subject: Re: Stallards smoking gun! = Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0205091645.60c0bcb8@posting.google.com>h  e bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) wrote in message news:<abecq2$275k$1@info.cs.uofs.edu>...i? > In article <d7791aa1.0205090640.2788c351@posting.google.com>,f- >  bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski) writes:ef > |> JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message news:<3CD9A753.9B7FA31F@videotron.ca>... > |> > Bob Ceculski wrote:@ > |> > > If VMS is being ported to Itanium, why would porting to? > |> > > hp ux be the best alternative?  Does this sound like a07 > |> > > company that is going to support VMS?  NO WAY!k > |> > cM > |> > Where is that famous secret letter you were so proudly talking about ?2 > |> 7H > |> vms has survived and will survive as I said, however, that does notE > |> mean the fight has ended ... this proves the same mentality that.A > |> existed in Q has popped up in HP, and it must be confronted!s > |> a? > |> I am doing my share ... what are you doing useful for vms?  > |> IF > |> The same as Bill Todd and everyone else around here, just whining0 > |> and moaning like a bunch of 2 year olds ... > F > So, can we assume from the fact that you totally ignored what seemedD > like a rather simple and straightforward question that the "famousL > secret letter"(tm) was just a fabrication as many here said at the time??  >  > bill  I the secret letter is valid ... vms lives on, thanks mainly to the CernerseL and the military/gov. orgs ... and it will be ported to itanium ... however,K that will not stop some people (Stallard) who don't understand what 99.99993J reliability, clustering and security is, and they don't understand the vmsI base/user, and they think they can try to do what Palmer tried, affinity, J and they will fail, and I will continue to expose these morons ... yes, itL is sad that we vms users have to promote vms to the world ... quite frankly,H I could care less about anyone else ... as long as I have vms and I haveH support, let everyone else get shut down ... I will be up, the company IK work for will be up 99.9999, and I will be just fine ... for those who failoC to listen to those on this board who try to steer them in the rightoA direction, they will live a miserable life in the world of IT ...    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 09 May 2002 22:44:00 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>p# Subject: Re: Stallards smoking gun! , Message-ID: <3CDB33E6.2C5BFB53@videotron.ca>   Bob Ceculski wrote:mK > the secret letter is valid ... vms lives on, thanks mainly to the CernershN > and the military/gov. orgs ... and it will be ported to itanium ... however,M > that will not stop some people (Stallard) who don't understand what 99.9999hL > reliability, clustering and security is, and they don't understand the vms > base/user,    L Stallard's memo is not the only indication of HP's true intentions with VMS.N There are plenty of other indications, some extremely public, and some throughK omissions. They hadover 8 months to prepare. What they served shows exactlyr what they want.c  L cernet and military only need to have on-going maintenance of their existingL systems for X years.  They doN't care about IA64. As soon as Alpha starts toN lag behind, they will move to whatever chip is fastest at the time and HP will? lose those customers and no longer be bound by those contracts.t  G Having to ensure maintenance is available for X years has absolutely noEM bearing on ensuring VMS continues to be developped/improved, that it is to behA marketed, that attemps to expand its marketplace be made etc etc.(   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 02:56:18 GMT # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>r# Subject: Re: Stallards smoking gun!mI Message-ID: <mFGC8.29023$GLp1.28279@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>w  : "Stuart, Ed" <Ed.Stuart@austinenergy.com> wrote in messageL news:92EFB80E551BD511B39500D0B7B0CDCC0642C3F0@ohms.electric.ci.austin.tx.us. ..@ >We need each of us to let the folks at HP know what they can doJ > to market OpenVMS better, and how it will benefit their bottom line.  In? > other words, don't just complain, but also bring suggestions.l >. > EdG > **Please apply a generous amount of all the usual disclaimers here.**s  I I agree with you Ed, however I remain skeptical until there are full pagesH ads in the Wall Street Journal announcing a full-scale promotion of VMS.L But HP won't do that because the fools at Gartner would put them through theL wringer about that, and then the Wall Street types will simply echo the sameJ crap, and then the stock goes down. None of the Wall Street types actuallyH go out to speak with living VMS customers, especially not those who have3 tried unix and found out that it sucks the big one.      A bumper sticker for you:y   VMS.....because Unix sucks.    ------------------------------   Date: 10 MAY 2002 02:45:47 GMT2 From: karcher@kort.waisman.wisc.edu (Carl Karcher)# Subject: Re: Stallards smoking gun!u4 Message-ID: <10MAY02.02454708@kort.waisman.wisc.edu>  @ In a previous article, bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski) wrote:  J ->I could care less about anyone else ... as long as I have vms and I haveJ ->support, let everyone else get shut down ... I will be up, the company IM ->work for will be up 99.9999, and I will be just fine ... for those who faild ->...a  B Come on Bob, while I have a similar mantra, that's six nines or 31F seconds of downtime a year if I did the math correctly. Even VMS would$ be hard pressed to accomplish that.    --G -- Carl Karcher, Waisman Computing Services, Waisman Center, UW-Madisons ---    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 05:32:47 GMTr1 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com>.# Subject: Re: Stallards smoking gun!.* Message-ID: <3YIC8.5162$L76.313@rwcrnsc53>  ? "Carl Karcher" <karcher@kort.waisman.wisc.edu> wrote in messagee. news:10MAY02.02454708@kort.waisman.wisc.edu...B > In a previous article, bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski) wrote: >eL > ->I could care less about anyone else ... as long as I have vms and I haveL > ->support, let everyone else get shut down ... I will be up, the company IJ > ->work for will be up 99.9999, and I will be just fine ... for those who fail > ->...V > D > Come on Bob, while I have a similar mantra, that's six nines or 31H > seconds of downtime a year if I did the math correctly. Even VMS would% > be hard pressed to accomplish that.>  2 Yes indeedy... you're flirting with NSK territory!   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 09 May 2002 19:59:59 GMTu0 From: "Matt Muggeridge" <Matt.Muggeridge@hp.com>! Subject: Re: sync time in clustery@ Message-ID: <3zAC8.110873$o66.326266@news-server.bigpond.net.au>   Hi Tom,d  L If it were TCP/IP related, I can be quite influential :-)  This is much moreE generic.  Have you tried lodging a problem report?  Did you receive as	 response?d   Cheers,s Matt.l   --= -------------------------------------------------------------a OpenVMS TCP/IP Engineering Enterprise Computing Group Hewlett Packard Company? Gold Coast, AUSTRALIAs= -------------------------------------------------------------     . "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> wrote in message3 news:CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIKECKEPAA.tom@kednos.com...f, > Matt,  You might also get the doc team to:1 > 1.  Make search work in ODL running on windows.WA > 2.  Allow ODL for VMS and Tru64 to coexist.  If you try install ? >     one and the other other, the second overwrites the first, $ >     They have the same names, duh. >u > >-----Original Message-----u8 > >From: Matt Muggeridge [mailto:Matt.Muggeridge@hp.com]( > >Sent: Wednesday, May 08, 2002 5:39 PM > >To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com$ > >Subject: Re: sync time in cluster > >n > > ) > >>Why is there no HELP on it, I wonder?c > >y > >$ help tcpip ntp  > > E > >Admittedly, it doesn't mention how to create the foreign symbol or- describeI > >ntpdate in any detail.  I have entered a note to our doc team on that.  > >c > >Matt. > >--s@ > >------------------------------------------------------------- > >OpenVMS TCP/IP Engineeringy > >Enterprise Computing Groupg > >Hewlett Packard Company > >Gold Coast, AUSTRALIA@ > >------------------------------------------------------------- > >o > >t1 > >"Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> wrote in messagee6 > >news:CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJICEBLEPAA.tom@kednos.com...E > >> Ooops.  I tried finding first in ODL, but, of course, that nevere8 > >> works right.  Why is there no HELP on it, I wonder? > >>  > >> >-----Original Message-----; > >> >From: Peter LANGSTOEGER [mailto:peter@langstoeger.at]e+ > >> >Sent: Wednesday, May 08, 2002 3:19 PM- > >> >To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comt' > >> >Subject: RE: sync time in clusterh > >> > > >> >D > >> >In article <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIGEBIEPAA.tom@kednos.com>, "Tom& > >> >Linden" <tom@kednos.com> writes:F > >> >>It doesn't appear to be a complete implementation.  There is noF > >> >>ntpdate.  It runs on Tru64, but not VMS, and I thought they had > >> >>a common code base. > >> > > >> >They have. > >> >' > >> >TCPIP: ntpdate :== $TCPIP$NTPDATE5+ > >> >TCPware: ntpdate :== $TCPWARE:NTPDATEy > >> >  > >> >Look again, it is there... > >> > > >> >-- > >> >Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER4+ > >> >Network and OpenVMS system specialisto" > >> >E-mail  peter@langstoeger.atE > >> >A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm looking for (a) Network  > >> >_and_ VMS Job(s) > >> >	 > >> >---O, > >> >Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.@ > >> >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).E > >> >Version: 6.0.360 / Virus Database: 199 - Release Date: 5/7/2002t > >> > > >> ---+ > >> Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.a? > >> Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).hD > >> Version: 6.0.360 / Virus Database: 199 - Release Date: 5/7/2002 > >> > >e > >a > >---) > >Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.p= > >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).oB > >Version: 6.0.360 / Virus Database: 199 - Release Date: 5/7/2002 > >r > ---e( > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.< > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).A > Version: 6.0.360 / Virus Database: 199 - Release Date: 5/7/2002  >p   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 10:42:18 +1000o= From: "Mark\(unMASK\)Forsyth" <forsytMhm@optAushoSme.com.aKu>g! Subject: Re: sync time in cluster." Message-ID: <b15fba.q3b.ln@really>  . "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> wrote in message3 news:CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIEEALEPAA.tom@kednos.com...g@ > I run ntp under tcpip5.1 on one node.  How can the other nodes0 > be served this time without having to run ntp?  J If it was me, I'd just run ntp on all nodes and be done with it. Seeing asK you can't run ntp on all nodes, why not set the node where it is running to16 be a DTSS server and the other nodes as DTSS clients ?   OorooC	 Mark F...o > ---n( > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.< > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).A > Version: 6.0.360 / Virus Database: 199 - Release Date: 5/7/2002n >e   ------------------------------   Date: 9 May 2002 17:39:36 -0700n( From: insoo.kim@compaq.com (Kim, In Soo) Subject: Re: Test for DRM>= Message-ID: <2435e043.0205091639.1f418568@posting.google.com>e   Thanks for your concern.  ) Currently we'd solved the DRM delay time.t) After upgrading ACS V8.6P, The delay time  was decreased from 50% to 1-2%.o* It's good performance to us and customers.   bye.  m insoo.kim@compaq.com (Kim, In Soo) wrote in message news:<2435e043.0204300152.519748aa@posting.google.com>...e > Hi. everyone.g > / > Have you ever any experience for openvms DRM.i >  > Today I'd tested for DRM. ) > But i am not satisfied with the result. 8 > At first I tried for only local(source) site I/O test.+ > The average I/O complete time was 6m 30s. P > The second I also tried for DRM(source & target) I/O test in synchronous mode. > The result was average 10m.a+ > Therefore delayed time rate is about 50%.m? > In case of tru64 unix,I heard the performance is down 20-25%.  > Now i'd like to know...H7 > 1. Generally the delayed time rate is correct or not. $ > 2. If not,let me know check point. >  > ......TEST Environment ......o+ > H/W : AlphaServer ES40(1EA) & MA8000(2EA)t' > O/S : OpenVMS V7.2-1h1 & Latest patchG > D/B : Oracle RDB V7.0.3n
 > ACS : V8.5Pf > Connection for DRM : FC to FCa   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 09 May 2002 18:25:56 GMTn# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>s* Subject: Re: Time for comp.sys.hp.vms? SSAH Message-ID: <UazC8.27007$GLp1.6776@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>  J Nope.  At the rate VMS changes hands, we'd only have to establish a new ng soon.d   Better to leave it as is.d    9 "Paul Repacholi" <prep@prep.synonet.com> wrote in messageS' news:87adr9qpep.fsf@prep.synonet.com...i >o > --> > Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,9 > +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.TB >                                              West Australia 60760 > Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.H > EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be. >e   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 9 May 2002 13:28:39 -0700, From: "James Gessling" <jgessling@yahoo.com>* Subject: Re: Time for comp.sys.hp.vms? SSA4 Message-ID: <abem5o$hmcne$1@ID-46415.news.dfncis.de>  8 How about something reflecting the history of the group.   comp.os.dec.compaq.hp.vmsg   Jim3   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 09 May 2002 23:20:31 GMT . From: peter@langstoeger.at (Peter LANGSTOEGER)* Subject: Re: Time for comp.sys.hp.vms? SSA5 Message-ID: <3vDC8.215431$vc2.2446739@news.chello.at>g  \ In article <87adr9qpep.fsf@prep.synonet.com>, Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com> writes:  - Where is the smiley ? You can't be serious...s   -- t Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGERu% Network and OpenVMS system specialistM E-mail  peter@langstoeger.atP A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm looking for (a) Network _and_ VMS Job(s)   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 09 May 2002 18:19:55 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>c+ Subject: Re: TS10/VAX, DHV11, and Jnet/VAX.o, Message-ID: <3CDAF60A.70B29FCA@videotron.ca>   sword7@speakeasy.org wrote:aF > Does anyone have specs about modem controls like DCD, DSR, DTR, etc?  L If you email me at vaxination  videotron.ca with your address, I could shipN you an original DHV11 manual. It has the specs on the modem controls in there.K Also, the VMS  I/O manual has the VMS handling of the modem controls fairly / well documented in the terminal driver section.s   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 9 May 2002 22:03:59 +0100; From: "Leigh G. Bowden" <LGBowden@bowdenfamily.fsnet.co.uk>r3 Subject: Re: UK/EU OpenVMS job market: non-existantv/ Message-ID: <abeo6l$c7o$1@newsg3.svr.pol.co.uk>e  L Probably like me and completely hacked off with the new fads that come alongE every six months and constantly running like mad just to stand still.i  I Seem to be lots of VMS jobs in London but pay is not good considering the 4 housing market and not everyone wants to work there.  ! Jerry Leslie wrote in message ...	/ >Chris Bardell (tessier-ashpool@usa.net) wrote: < >: Cheers for the responses guys, interesting points raised. >:  >Just found this tidbit for you: > ; >The 9.1% of U.S. IT industry has vanished in the last years >oD >   InformationWeek > IT Careers > Vanishing Act > February 15, 20029 >   http://www.informationweek.com/story/IWK20020215S0049n >hG >   New statistics suggest the overall IT workforce has shrunk. So justt/ >   where have the former workers gone-and why?  >d0 >   By Eric Chabrow and Diane Rezendes Khirallah >rI >  "Now you see 'em, now you don't. About 270,000 workers--9.1% of the ITdJ >   workforce--vanished in the past year, and no one's sure where they allG >   went, or why. The chief suspects appear to be layoff-spurred careerrG >   changes, post-Sept. 11 angst, and disillusionment following the dots	 >   bomb.p >l
 >   [snip] >tH >   Former IT people are turning up everywhere: Ex-network designer JohnE >   O'Brien, 28, remodels homes around St. Louis with his dad. Andrew-G >   Stephens, 32, was an IT consultant and now teaches math at a middlecJ >   school in Alexandria, Va. One-time IT project leader Julie Malina, 32,G >   does administrative work for a San Francisco insurer. Ex-programmera3 >   Krishna Sadasivam, 29, has become a cartoonist.f >dG >   There's a potentially troubling pattern in those examples, and it's E >   supported by the bureau's data--the majority of ex-IT workers ares >   under 40 years old..." >e >g >Good luck, Chris. >1I >--Jerry Leslie   leslie@clio.rice.edu  (my opinions are strictly my own)r: >  Note: leslie@jrlvax.houston.rr.com is invalid for email   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 09 May 2002 23:07:08 +0200t From: Dirk Munk <munk@home.nl> Subject: Re: USB on OpenVMSu& Message-ID: <3CDAE4FC.6070409@home.nl>  I I am using a Logitech TrackMan Marble+ PS2 mouse on my PC. 3 buttons and eA a mousewheel. Works fine ! I'm using a similar Trackball without   mousewheel on my PWS.    Fred Kleinsorge wrote:I > No.  I added it only for USB.  It was easy, it's just another axis on a. > pointing device. > N > I've never seen the spec for a PS2 thumbwheel mouse, or if it is possible toI > detect it's presence (as opposed to any other type of mouse).  The PS-2a > mouse design was abysmal.t >  >  > : > Dirk Munk wrote in message <3CDA47D9.8010403@home.nl>... >  >>Fred Kleinsorge wrote: >>- >>>Eh?  What's a two-cylinder VSXXX-AA mouse?n >>>eI >>>The mouse will be a standard 3-button USB mouse.  As an added bonus, Is >> > put  > C >>>support for the thumbwheel in for anyone that wants to plug in at >> > thumbwheel > 	 >>>mouse.w >>G >>Does this mean I can connect a thumbweel mouse to the ps-2 port of myb/ >>PWS500 too ? From which version VMS / Motif ? F >>That would be very nice, I could scroll through the messages in this >>newsgroup. >> >> >>   ------------------------------   Date: 10 May 02 07:18:47 +0200) From: p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture)o& Subject: Re: VAX 4000/600A help needed) Message-ID: <AdBtJRe01nk$@elias.decus.ch>l  T In article <3CDA4467.7B9BBD76@127.0.0.1>, Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1> writes: > Luca_B wrote:o >> rK >> the trick is that the edge connector of the RF36's sled  to mount in theeO >> SF36-BE cabinet is physically the same as the one in the VAX 4000 but when IlK >> unmounted it I've discovered that the electrical connections are not the- >> same. >> ,4 >> The problem now is to find a sled for the drives. >  > Where are you based? > H > I *may* have a spare one knocking about but I'm in a state of upheavalI > at the moment so I couldn't confirm for a week, or two or, whenever theaF > dynamic duo of estate agents I'm dealing with decide to talk to eachC > other, not that I'm bitter about it ! They work for the same firm(
 > though. :-/o > 6 House buying tip #1 Don't trust the slimy estate agentJ House buying tip #2 When estate agents talk of ethics, or professionalism,9                     they are going to screw you. Somehow.t House buying tip #3 See #1  J > Speaking of which, I'll be sampling bitter in Reading on the 28th... UK.	 > CUO-UK.t > 4 But Courage/Scottish & Newcastle? Not the best IMHO.   __
 Paul Sture Switzerlandn   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 00:54:57 GMTr1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>a+ Subject: Re: VMS 6.2 file ownership problemr' Message-ID: <3CDB1D7C.FB39FAB7@fsi.net>    Paul Sture wrote:a > ] > In article <3CD341BC.BCAE6F19@fsi.net>, "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> writes:  > > Paul Sture wrote:r > >>x > >> In article <Y7Sz8.8$fS1.173180@cacnews.cac.cpqcorp.net>, hammond@not@peek.ppb.cpqcorp.net (Charlie Hammond) writes:. > >> > In article <3CCF5057.4C715738@fsi.net>,: > >> > "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> writes: > >> >L > >> >>What always goofed me up about that was because I could, the softwareM > >> >>did, without me so specifying. Wish I could have had more control overn0 > >> >>it without dropping/resetting privileges. > >> >G > >> > If you run with privs on by default, you are asking for trouble. F > >> > With privs on, it is just TOO EASY to do something "bad" beforeD > >> > you realize it.  I have caused myself worse problems than you5 > >> > describe by forgettting I had privs turned on!  > >> >B > >> > I have defined two symbols to turn privs on and off easily: > >> > > >> > PEEK> sho sym privi$ > >> >   PRIV == "SET PROC/PRIV=ALL" > >> > PEEK> sho sym deprivn8 > >> >   DEPRIV == "SET PROC/PRIV=(NOALL,NETMBX,TMPMBX)" > >> >N > >> > Other's have a "PRIV" command that re-sets the "$" (or whatever) prompt= > >> > to something else that reminds you of having privs on.n > >>/ > >> FWIW, I have the following symbol defined:e > >>A > >> $ mypriv :== set proc/priv=(noall,'f$getjpi("","AUTHPRIV")')s > > G > > ...which is fine so long as your AUTHPRIV string is not excessivelys	 > > long.y > > P > Mine is not. I take it from your response that yours is somewhat longer than I
 > prefer. :-)T  : Well, what works for my username does not work for SYSTEM.   -- a David J. Dachterau dba DJE SystemsM http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/t   ------------------------------   Date: 9 May 2002 22:58:40 GMTm6 From: {j6F*4gb}.See@Reply-To.invalid (Stefan Berglund) Subject: VMS textfile format? Message-ID: <slrnadlvov.rre.{j6F*4gb}.See@gimli.dd.chalmers.se>r   <short version>>; What is the correct text file line endings on a VMS system?x6 Will it break long lines in comments in a commandfile? </short version>   <longer version>E I'm trying to get a hobbyist system up and running but I have seriousS2 trouble applying the licenses from DECUS/Montagar.  E I applied the OS base license by hand by writing the license registerTJ command directly at the prompt so that went fine[1] but as that was ratherG tedious I burnt the other license file on a CD and thought that I woulde@ be able to run the commandfile with the syntax @vmslayered.lic. G To my surprise and dismay that didn't work as it complains about syntaxoH errors at parts of some words in the license agreement text. The text isE in a comment with $! at the start of each line, but some lines in then3 comment is rather long (longer than 80 characters).e  F I think that the reason is either that I got the wrong line endings, IJ have tried all of <CR>, <LF> and <CR><LF>, but EDIT/EDT[2] complains aboutF wrong text file format on all of them and when running the files I getD various strange errors. The other reason that I can think of is that9 long lines get broken at 80 chars or something like that.aC I have checked that the files on the CD is as expected at a Solarisg& system (including hexdumping them...).D As I have to burn a CD for each time I try with new files I would beB very happy if I can modify the files that I have but I have rather strict limitations: ( Only the base OS license (OPENVMS-ALPHA)4 My CRT[2] isn't recognized by EVE so it won't start * EDT complains about wrong text file format  D [1] Disregarding the fact that after this it starts up the graphicalD     loginscreen at boot and I can't login there as I haven't appliedG     the rest of the licenses, I have to boot it with the procedure from      MGMT5 in the FAQ.n  E [2] EDT is the only editor I can start as EVE complains about that mym=     CRT isn't supported, anyone know how to setup a NCD 19cp?s </longer version>u   -- n
 			/Stefan 			sbl+news@dd.chalmers.se  " Life - the ultimate practical joke   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 09 May 2002 19:54:01 -0400h- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>n  Subject: Re: VMS textfile format, Message-ID: <3CDB0C12.67746960@videotron.ca>   Stefan Berglund wrote: >  > <short version>-= > What is the correct text file line endings on a VMS system? 8 > Will it break long lines in comments in a commandfile?   There are many correct ones.  I There is a layer (called RMS) between the file and the applications whichnL allows different file formats to be interpreted as "text". However RMS needs? to know the attribute of the file in order to read it properly.-  E For instance, if RMS knows that it is a variable length file, it will H automatically use the first 2 bytes of a record to indicate the record's< length, and then there is no need for a CR or LF at the end.  S Perhaps what you should do is to mount the CD on VMS and do a DIR/FULL on the file.L  K If it shows up as stream-lf, then you need a linefeed character to end eachsK line. If there is also a Carriage-return carriable control, you may want to> add a <CR> too.i   How do you generate your CD ?e   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 01:36:53 GMT01 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>   Subject: Re: VMS textfile format' Message-ID: <3CDB274D.F9D550F3@fsi.net><   Stefan Berglund wrote: >  > <short version>m= > What is the correct text file line endings on a VMS system?e8 > Will it break long lines in comments in a commandfile? > </short version> >  > <longer version>G > I'm trying to get a hobbyist system up and running but I have serious 4 > trouble applying the licenses from DECUS/Montagar.  @ O.k. Since this seems the root of your problem, I'll start here.  G The easiest way I've found is to edit the file on Windows/Linux down toeF just the licenses you want. Get that onto the clipboard, then PASTE it; into a terminal emulation session while at the DCL prompt. a  G I use Reflection/4 on Windows as terminal program. The "standard issue" D Hyperterm is seriously broken, but may work for a serial link to the console port of your VAX/Alpha.o  F Linux/*BSD is a bit more of a challenge as your success will depend onD whether or not your terminal program will allow clipboard text to be= pasted in and be sent to the host as if you keyed it by hand..   As to your CD issue...  G I assume you burned an ISO-9660 CD since VMS cannot MOUNT anything elsetG besides ODS and ISO-9660. When you MOUNT the CD, you'll need to specifyf something like this:  + $ MOUNT ddcu:/OVER=ID/MEDIA=CD/UNDEF=STREAM/  G Then, you should be able to invoke the license file as if it were a DCLyG command procedure. If you burned the CD on Linux or *BSD, use STREAM_LFr instead of STREAM.  ? (From the on-line HELP of OpenVMS-VAX V7.2 on my hobbyist box).e   -- 1 David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systemsr http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 9 May 2002 19:12:24 -0700# From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com>@  Subject: RE: VMS textfile format9 Message-ID: <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIMEEIEPAA.tom@kednos.com>    >-----Original Message----- 7 >From: David J. Dachtera [mailto:djesys.nospam@fsi.net]e% >Sent: Thursday, May 09, 2002 6:37 PM  >To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com! >Subject: Re: VMS textfile format  >a >S >Stefan Berglund wrote:d >>   >> <short version>> >> What is the correct text file line endings on a VMS system?9 >> Will it break long lines in comments in a commandfile?c >> </short version>3 >> V >> <longer version>RH >> I'm trying to get a hobbyist system up and running but I have serious5 >> trouble applying the licenses from DECUS/Montagar., > A >O.k. Since this seems the root of your problem, I'll start here.1 >8H >The easiest way I've found is to edit the file on Windows/Linux down toG >just the licenses you want. Get that onto the clipboard, then PASTE it < >into a terminal emulation session while at the DCL prompt.  >tH >I use Reflection/4 on Windows as terminal program. The "standard issue"E >Hyperterm is seriously broken, but may work for a serial link to theg  >console port of your VAX/Alpha.  , Putty works fine for this operation as well.   > G >Linux/*BSD is a bit more of a challenge as your success will depend on E >whether or not your terminal program will allow clipboard text to bes> >pasted in and be sent to the host as if you keyed it by hand. >s >As to your CD issue...e >tH >I assume you burned an ISO-9660 CD since VMS cannot MOUNT anything elseH >besides ODS and ISO-9660. When you MOUNT the CD, you'll need to specify >something like this:l >t, >$ MOUNT ddcu:/OVER=ID/MEDIA=CD/UNDEF=STREAM > H >Then, you should be able to invoke the license file as if it were a DCLH >command procedure. If you burned the CD on Linux or *BSD, use STREAM_LF >instead of STREAM.e >B@ >(From the on-line HELP of OpenVMS-VAX V7.2 on my hobbyist box). >- >--  >David J. Dachtera >dba DJE Systems >http://www.djesys.com/  >h) >Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page:m  >http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/ >D >---' >Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.b; >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).o@ >Version: 6.0.360 / Virus Database: 199 - Release Date: 5/7/2002 >  ---P& Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.: Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).? Version: 6.0.360 / Virus Database: 199 - Release Date: 5/7/2002n   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 09 May 2002 18:14:00 GMT " From: Alfred Falk <falk@arc.ab.ca>9 Subject: Where do Gartner's probabilty factors come from?a9 Message-ID: <Xns92097C717A768falkarcabca@205.233.108.180>a  I "Probability Factors" are often mentioned in references to Gartner Group h reports.G Where do they come from?  Is this just an attempt to give a scientific :@ credibility to someone's gut feel or do they actually have some % statistical basis?  Anyone here know?e   -- e@ ----------------------------------------------------------------A   A L B E R T A         Alfred Falk               falk@arc.ab.ca 2@ R E S E A R C H         Information Systems Dept   (780)450-5185+   C O U N C I L         250 Karl Clark Roadg1                         Edmonton, Alberta, Canada  http://www.arc.ab.ca/   T6N 1E4y  http://www.arc.ab.ca/staff/falk/   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 09 May 2002 18:24:59 GMTs# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> = Subject: Re: Where do Gartner's probabilty factors come from?eI Message-ID: <%9zC8.26998$GLp1.18511@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>    W.A.G.  -- wild-ass guess-    / "Alfred Falk" <falk@arc.ab.ca> wrote in message03 news:Xns92097C717A768falkarcabca@205.233.108.180...uJ > "Probability Factors" are often mentioned in references to Gartner Group
 > reports.H > Where do they come from?  Is this just an attempt to give a scientificA > credibility to someone's gut feel or do they actually have somei' > statistical basis?  Anyone here know?p >o > --B > ----------------------------------------------------------------B >   A L B E R T A         Alfred Falk               falk@arc.ab.caB > R E S E A R C H         Information Systems Dept   (780)450-5185- >   C O U N C I L         250 Karl Clark Roady3 >                         Edmonton, Alberta, Canadae! > http://www.arc.ab.ca/   T6N 1E4c" > http://www.arc.ab.ca/staff/falk/   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 09 May 2002 18:40:20 GMTl1 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com>t= Subject: Re: Where do Gartner's probabilty factors come from?d: Message-ID: <oozC8.6115$Po6.157@rwcrnsc52.ops.asp.att.net>  / "Alfred Falk" <falk@arc.ab.ca> wrote in messagea3 news:Xns92097C717A768falkarcabca@205.233.108.180...eJ > "Probability Factors" are often mentioned in references to Gartner Group
 > reports.H > Where do they come from?  Is this just an attempt to give a scientificA > credibility to someone's gut feel or do they actually have someh' > statistical basis?  Anyone here know?T  G I guess GG wants to attribute some sort of likelihood to the successfulk fruition of their predictions.  H I seem to recall that weather-guessers instituted the probability factor+ thing about a quarter of a century ago. ;-}y   cheers,   - terry "blue skies unless its raining" shannon    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 09 May 2002 12:27:30 -0700 ' From: David Mathog <mathog@caltech.edu> = Subject: Re: Where do Gartner's probabilty factors come from?u+ Message-ID: <3CDACDA2.4A453D81@caltech.edu>    Alfred Falk wrote: > J > "Probability Factors" are often mentioned in references to Gartner Group
 > reports.H > Where do they come from?  Is this just an attempt to give a scientificA > credibility to someone's gut feel or do they actually have somet' > statistical basis?  Anyone here know?t  4 They visit N randomly selected alternate future time1 lines, observe that in K of them their predictiono1 has come true, and derive from that a probability 5 that their prediction will be correct of K/N, with an  uncertainty of roughly sqrt(N).o  6 There is no truth at all to those nasty and persistant/ rumors that the Gartner time travel vehicle waso/ destroyed in early 1990, or that their analysts 1 have have ever since resorted to an assortment ofe5 potent psychoactive substances in order to make their  observations of future events.   Regards,   David Mathog mathog@caltech.edu   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 9 May 2002 15:28:09 -0400 From: William_Bochnik@acml.com= Subject: Re: Where do Gartner's probabilty factors come from?g> Message-ID: <OF229A0F4D.CF1279DB-ON85256BB4.006AD137@acml.com>  ; I think they get their factors from reading entrails - mosto? likely their own, considering where their heads are most of thea> time (in my opinion, not those of my employer, wife, neighbor,
 etc etc etc).v  - <insert apropriate disclaimer for humor here>u    : The information contained in this transmission may contain@ privileged and confidential information and is intended only forA the use of the person(s) name above.  If you are not the intended8= recipient, or an employee or agent responsible for deliveringh3 this message to the intended recipient, any review,u@ dissemination, distribution or duplication of this communication? is strictly prohibited.  If you are not the intended recipient,wA please contact the sender immediately by reply e-mail and destroyi# all copies of the original message.e   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 9 May 2002 16:31:50 -0400* From: WILLIAM WEBB <WWEBB1@email.usps.gov>= Subject: RE: Where do Gartner's probabilty factors come from?-- Message-ID: <0033000063369158000002L082*@MHS>1  2 =0AIt could be a poor attempt to sound like Spock.   WWWebb   -----Original Message-----/ From: Info-VAX-Request@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNETn$ Sent: Thursday, May 09, 2002 3:28 PMB To: Webb, William W Raleigh, NC; Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNET= Subject: RE: Where do Gartner's probabilty factors come from?o     Alfred Falk wrote: >cH > "Probability Factors" are often mentioned in references to Gartner Gr= oupt
 > reports.H > Where do they come from?  Is this just an attempt to give a scientifi= ceA > credibility to someone's gut feel or do they actually have some ' > statistical basis?  Anyone here know?o  4 They visit N randomly selected alternate future time1 lines, observe that in K of them their predictione1 has come true, and derive from that a probabilityi5 that their prediction will be correct of K/N, with ani uncertainty of roughly sqrt(N).   6 There is no truth at all to those nasty and persistant/ rumors that the Gartner time travel vehicle was / destroyed in early 1990, or that their analystsl1 have have ever since resorted to an assortment ofo5 potent psychoactive substances in order to make theiro observations of future events.   Regards,   David Mathog mathog@caltech.edu=u   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 09 May 2002 19:01:26 -0400e- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>e= Subject: Re: Where do Gartner's probabilty factors come from?e, Message-ID: <3CDAFFC2.9A0A1188@videotron.ca>   William_Bochnik@acml.com wrote:3 > 7 > I think they get their factors from reading entrails t  N I thought it was by measuring the amount of navel lint they get each day ? :-) ;-) :-)    ------------------------------   Date: 9 May 2002 18:46:31 GMTw1 From: bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)t? Subject: Re: Why is security so important in a VMS environment?f, Message-ID: <abeg67$29bb$1@info.cs.uofs.edu>  ; In article <3cda058a.524144494f47414741@radiogaga.harz.de>, 5  martin@radiogaga.harz.de (Martin Vorlaender) writes:d% |> John Smith (a@nonymous.com) wrote:dA |> > To be fair, unix has had security mechanisms since its earlyp) |> > days, yet they were not always used.p |> oK |> But these mechanisms weren't always very well designed, the best exampleT. |> being the world readable /etc/passwd file.   3 It's amazing how clearly we can see things 30 yearsy7 after.  At the time the /etc/passwd file was instituted 4 it offered the perfect mix of both adequate security1 and comfort for the users.  Of course, times werem7 different bact then, both thecnologically and socially.>  ; Socially, many places didn't heve use passwords (read aboutB8 the 414's and MIT).  No one would even consider actually; intruding into another users space without permission.  And 9 technologically, what difference did it make if the users,6 had access to the encrypted passwords.  They were (and8 still are) un-decryptable.  The only possible successful9 attack on a Unix password file was brute force.  30 yearsi9 ago (even as much as 10 years ago actually) it would have 9 taken longer to brute force attack the passwords than was < reasonable, measured in years!!  When society and technology8 changed, so did Unix.  Although many continue to use the7 old ways either out of habit or lack of concern, longerM9 passwords and userids are possible.  The only method that-7 can be used hasn't changed, brute force.  By increasingr6 the size of the password this has again become hard to6 do.  Making the password file inaccessable also helps.    H |>                                             Later they kludged shadow |> passwords on top of that.  5 So what then?  Any improvement made after the fact ism; a kludge??  If that's the case, how much of VMS is actually ) just kludges that were added to VMS 1.0??h   bill   -- rJ Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 09 May 2002 21:36:27 +0100t' From: Elliott Roper <elliott@yrl.co.uk>d? Subject: Re: Why is security so important in a VMS environment?a2 Message-ID: <090520022136271411%elliott@yrl.co.uk>  < In article <3CDAAC50.BD53E88E@systasis.net>, Jeffrey Chimene! <jeff.nospam@systasis.net> wrote:   + > One other point that's worth emphasizing:h > G > Security was important to DEC - not just in their VMS product, but inoB > all their multi-user/timesharing environments. The term "hostileF > environment" for a computing system in an educational setting didn'tH > orginate w/ VAX/VMS. I first saw it w/r/t RSTS/E twenty years ago. I'mH > sure the idea predates that reference in the documentation. If someoneJ > can resurrect some RSX-11/M documentation, the system management sectionI > probably refers to that term.  I don't remember what the pdp-8 OS (e.g.eH > COS-310) used - I think it was simply login based, nothing much beyond > that.t  , Those rose-tinted spectacles have kicked in.  A RSX11-M  doco explicitly stated that that it was not designed for G hostile user environments. Any unprivileged user could bring it down by @ blowing the stack. 11-D tried harder, but it was not very secure either. C Nobody would claim that RSX-11M was a proper multi-tier timesharing D environment. OK, there was kernel and user mode, but the round-robinA scheduler, when it eventually arrived in v3.2 or thereabouts, was G pretty wimpy compared to RSTS from several years earlier. The only file-F protection was via UIC, and it was hardly unbreakable, not that anyone2 cared, since it was never meant to be unbreakable.  D IAS, which grew out of 11-D was a halfway decent timesharing system.E The feeling was that it took far too large a machine for the work you9 got out of it.  F RSTS did try, and did well too. The original Basic plus runtime system: was extremely difficult to break out of. You had no tools.B Peek and Poke if you had the privilege, with no way of getting it.  A OS/8 had nothing. The whole machine was yours alone. Not a singleiG security measure as far as the eye could see. I think you have it rightwD for COS-310. A bunch of menus to hold the users back from the brink. Boy, that was a long time ago! S  C At the same time Tops-10 was showing everybody how to make reliablehD secure systems. It is amazing how little notice was taken inside DEC before VMS.n   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 09 May 2002 11:39:27 GMTt3 From: sy18889@rabbit.fmr.com (Bradford J. Hamilton) Y Subject: Write OVERHEAD in Volume Shadowing (Was:Re: What is good model for disk i/o w/shl. Message-ID: <PdtC8.18$O3.52@news-srv1.fmr.com>  K We did an experiment in our lab, with a 6G RMS indexed file on a 9G, 10KRPM-F drive.  We backed the file up, disk-to-disk, to a "target" drive whichI consisted of 2 9G drives, shadowed.  We then repeated the backup, using agM target drive of one 9G drive, shadowed (single-member shadow-set).  The finaliL test was to repeat the experient with a 9G drive that was part of a 2-member% mirror set (controllers were HSJ80s).m  E The results of our experiments were that writing to the single-member L shadow-set and the mirror set took ~28% less wall-clock time than writing toN the two-member shadow-set (we repeated each test a number of times, to attempt to eliminate "noise").  K YMMV, of course, but our "results" seem to indicate that writes do not takelI twice as long, but there is *some* penalty when you write to a two-membera shadow-set.e  n In article <12mC8.124806$N8.9884949@bin5.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>, "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> writes:K >Oh, dear - this may take time away from writing responses to idiots, but It >guess duty takes many forms...D > 8 >"Lawrence Bleau" <bleau@umtof.umd.edu> wrote in message+ >news:abcf20$kgp$1@grapevine.wam.umd.edu...o <snip> >>K >> I thought this was going to be straightforward, but ran into a snag with  >theK >> boss as soon as I raised the idea.  He said: "What?  That would make all  >writese? >> take twice as long."  I could tell he didn't like that idea.d > I >Perhaps because he hasn't a clue what he's talking about (ahhh - back toA. >responding to idiots again, just indirectly). >eK >Now, I may be being hasty (not knowing at this level of detail exactly howoM >VMS shadowing is implemented), but there is absolutely no reason that writes-I >*have* to take twice as long, since the writes to both disks can executerL >concurrently.  There is often a *slight* increase in time because operationF >completion must wait for both writes (i.e., the slower of the two) to. >complete, but nothing like twice the latency. >@ <snip> Bradford J. Hamilton& braMdhamAilPtoSn@aMtAtPbi.cSom		(home)& sMy1A88P89S@rabMbit.fAmPr.coSm		(work)  ; "All opinions that I express are my own, not my employer's"d "Lose the MAPS"n   ------------------------------   Date: 9 May 2002 11:31:41 -0700C( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)@ Subject: Re: [SURVEY] would you use CHARON-ia64 if there is one?= Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0205091031.54d71790@posting.google.com>   \ Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@Free.fr> wrote in message news:<3CD8EC66.B449D6D8@Free.fr>...L > I know that many VAX users use CHARON-VAX on Alpha or PC to continue theirO > development or use products which have no VMS/Alpha version. Would you use aneU > eventual CHARON-ia64 product should an Alpha-only version not be available on ia64?d >  > [ ] yes, I would > [ ] no > [ ] what is CHARON-VAX?w >  > 	 > Thanks,t >  > D.  : if HP tries anything funny w/vms, then yes!  Get it ready!   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2002.257 ************************