1 INFO-VAX	Fri, 10 May 2002	Volume 2002 : Issue 258       Contents:& Re: Alpha to ia64: where is the issue?< Re: Anybody get the CSA/PAKGEN to generate *valid* licenses?< Re: Anybody get the CSA/PAKGEN to generate *valid* licenses?) Re: Best DCL programm you've ever written $ Re: Bob Palmer and the demise of DEC$ Re: Bob Palmer and the demise of DEC$ Re: Bob Palmer and the demise of DEC$ RE: Bob Palmer and the demise of DEC$ Re: Bob Palmer and the demise of DEC$ Re: Bob Palmer and the demise of DEC$ Re: Bob Palmer and the demise of DEC$ Re: Bob Palmer and the demise of DEC$ Re: Bob Palmer and the demise of DEC Burning Bridges, Buck House etc # Re: Burning Bridges, Buck House etc 3 Re: Capellas: Linux, Windows Will 'Eviscerate' Unix 3 Re: Capellas: Linux, Windows Will 'Eviscerate' Unix 3 Re: Capellas: Linux, Windows Will 'Eviscerate' Unix 3 Re: Capellas: Linux, Windows Will 'Eviscerate' Unix 3 Re: Capellas: Linux, Windows Will 'Eviscerate' Unix 3 Re: Capellas: Linux, Windows Will 'Eviscerate' Unix 3 Re: Capellas: Linux, Windows Will 'Eviscerate' Unix 3 Re: Capellas: Linux, Windows Will 'Eviscerate' Unix 3 Re: Capellas: Linux, Windows Will 'Eviscerate' Unix 3 Re: Capellas: Linux, Windows Will 'Eviscerate' Unix 3 Re: Capellas: Linux, Windows Will 'Eviscerate' Unix 3 Re: Capellas: Linux, Windows Will 'Eviscerate' Unix 3 Re: Capellas: Linux, Windows Will 'Eviscerate' Unix 3 Re: Capellas: Linux, Windows Will 'Eviscerate' Unix 3 Re: Capellas: Linux, Windows Will 'Eviscerate' Unix 3 Re: Capellas: Linux, Windows Will 'Eviscerate' Unix 3 Re: Capellas: Linux, Windows Will 'Eviscerate' Unix 3 Re: Capellas: Linux, Windows Will 'Eviscerate' Unix 3 Re: Capellas: Linux, Windows Will 'Eviscerate' Unix 3 Re: Capellas: Linux, Windows Will 'Eviscerate' Unix 3 Re: Capellas: Linux, Windows Will 'Eviscerate' Unix   Re: CSWS / CSWB / MX Speculation  Re: CSWS / CSWB / MX Speculation) cxxlink shared libraries on Alpha and VAX - Re: cxxlink shared libraries on Alpha and VAX - Re: cxxlink shared libraries on Alpha and VAX  Re: DCL Question" Encompass US associate membership?& Re: Encompass US associate membership?& Re: Encompass US associate membership?  Re: Fearless VMS Prognostication- Re: Forced migration to HPHUX - Storm Warning - Re: Forced migration to HPHUX - Storm Warning 4 Re: Gartner rides again (was Re: HP Product Roadmap)4 Re: Gartner rides again (was Re: HP Product Roadmap)4 Re: Gartner rides again (was Re: HP Product Roadmap)4 Re: Gartner rides again (was Re: HP Product Roadmap)4 Re: Gartner rides again (was Re: HP Product Roadmap) Re: Help with ?setparams.dat? " High Water Concurrent Users Count?& Re: High Water Concurrent Users Count?& Re: High Water Concurrent Users Count?" Re: HP is taking over really fast! Re: HP Product Roadmap Re: HP Product Roadmap Re: HP Product Roadmap RE: HP Product Roadmap RE: HP Product Roadmap Re: HP Product Roadmap Re: HP Product Roadmap Re: HP Product Roadmap Re: HP Product Roadmap Re: Itanium troubles Re: Itanium troubles Re: Itanium troubles Re: Itanium troubles8 Re: MacOS/X is the leading Unix (was "Itanium Troubles")8 Re: MacOS/X is the leading Unix (was "Itanium Troubles")8 Re: MacOS/X is the leading Unix (was "Itanium Troubles") Re: ODL bugs Re: OpenVMS Certification  Re: OpenVMS Certification  OracleWord at Copenhagen.  Re: OracleWord at Copenhagen.  OT: Eviscerate ... eviscerate  Re: Powered by HP  Re: Powered by HP  Re: Powered by HP  Re: Powered by HP  Re: Powered by HP  Re: Powered by HP  Re: Powered by HP  Re: Powered by HP  simple disk-shadowing question" Re: simple disk-shadowing question" Re: simple disk-shadowing question' Re: SKC Morphs Again... We're Now SKHPC  Re: Stallards smoking gun! Re: Stallards smoking gun! Re: Stallards smoking gun! RE: Stallards smoking gun! Re: Stallards smoking gun! Re: Stallards smoking gun! Re: Stallards smoking gun! Re: Stallards smoking gun! Re: Stallards smoking gun! RE: Stallards smoking gun! Re: Stallards smoking gun! Re: Sun to use AMD chips ... RE: sync time in cluster" Re: TS10/VAX, DHV11, and Jnet/VAX.* Re: UK/EU OpenVMS job market: non-existant* RE: UK/EU OpenVMS job market: non-existant Re: USB on OpenVMS" Re: VAX 4000/600A help needed (OT) Re: VAX Spare Parts in the UK ( Re: VMS Bigots Unite To Form New Company Re: VMS textfile format 0 Re: What is good model for disk i/o w/shadowing?4 Re: Where do Gartner's probabilty factors come from?4 Re: Where do Gartner's probabilty factors come from?4 Re: Where do Gartner's probabilty factors come from?P Re: Write OVERHEAD in Volume Shadowing (Was:Re: What is good model for disk i/o  [announce] FreeVMS 0.0.14  Re: [announce] FreeVMS 0.0.14  Re: [announce] FreeVMS 0.0.14  Re: [announce] FreeVMS 0.0.14  Re: [announce] FreeVMS 0.0.14  Re: [announce] FreeVMS 0.0.14  Re: [announce] FreeVMS 0.0.14  Re: [announce] FreeVMS 0.0.14  Re: [announce] FreeVMS 0.0.14  Re: [announce] FreeVMS 0.0.14  Re: [announce] FreeVMS 0.0.14 - Re: [OT] Re: UK folks this might interest you   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 15:52:13 +0200 = From: Arne =?iso-8859-1?Q?Vajh=F8j?= <arne.vajhoej@gtech.com> / Subject: Re: Alpha to ia64: where is the issue? ) Message-ID: <3CDBD08D.4528F53F@gtech.com>    Didier Morandi wrote: G > What is to you the main problem(s) about the Alpha to ia64 migration?   4 Huge business problem: when a manager hear about the3 "migrate from VMS Alpha to VMS IA-64" plan, then he * would be very tempted to replace it with a. "migrate from VMS Alpha to Windows IA-64" plan4 or a "migrate from VMS Alpha to Solaris SPARC" plan.  2 Minor technical problem: if your system depends on2 certain HP or third party software components that4 for business reasons are not being ported from Alpha' to IA-64, then you have a real problem.    Arne   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 10:06:02 GMT  From: system@SendSpamHere.ORG E Subject: Re: Anybody get the CSA/PAKGEN to generate *valid* licenses? 0 Message-ID: <00A0DB71.30080573@SendSpamHere.ORG>  W In article <1020510000116.353A-100000@Ives.egh.com>, John Santos <JOHN@egh.com> writes: 2 >On Thu, 9 May 2002 system@SendSpamHere.ORG wrote: >  >> Subject says it all.  >>  H >> I can get the CSA PAKGEN to generate PAKs with my producer and issuerB >> names but the checksums never validate when I try to load them. > D >Works for me...  It takes some playing around (or maybe reading theD >manual) to determine what works for register/create and for loadingB >the license, but I haven't had any problems registering a license! >that I have successfully issued.  >  >Just to make sure, steps are:+ >1) $ license register/generate PRODUCT ... E >It seems to be recommended that you use a dummy license database, so D >you don't end up filling up your active license database with noise	 >records.  > ) >2) $ license issue/procedure PRODUCT ... J >Make a command file that you can mail, e-mail, or fax to your customer so >they can register the license.  > E >3) On customer's system, they execute the command procedure you sent @ >them to REGISTER the license (or cut&paste it from the e-mail.) > C >Or 3a) Customer uses @sys$update:vmslicense to type in the license F >info from the command file/mail/fax message.  (I think all vmslicenseE >does is generate a LICENSE REGISTER command that should be identical D >to the one in the command file created by LICENSE ISSUE/PROCEDURE.) >  >4) $ license load PRODUCTC >Customer loads license.  (I think vmslicense.com asks if it should 4 >do this for you when after you register a license.) > @ >I think the only time the checksum is checked is in the LICENSE >REGISTER in step 3 or 3a. > B >(I've had problems with licenses that will register but not load.E >This hasn't been a checksum error, but rather a "%LICENSE-W-WRGARCH, D >PRODUCT license is not valid on this architecture" which I fixed byE >generating a license with /AVAIL=H/OPTIONS=(ALPHA).  I was trying to H >generate an architecture neutral license with /AVAIL=I, but it wouldn't >load...  Time to RTFM.) > @ >If you want to make nice PAK certificates like DEC/Compaq/HP/??C >provides, I think you need to use $ license issue (no /procedure), > >in step 2 and capture the output and print it on a nice form.A >(Maybe the postscript wizards could come up with one?)  Then you E >would have to use @sys$update:vmslicense, which is more error-prone.     The PostScript is the easy part.   > A >What is the target (customer) system?  PAKGEN seems to make only > >the newer-format licenses (checksum begins with "2-")  If the= >targer system is old enough, maybe it only supports the "1-" ? >licenses.  (I think this preceded Alphas, i.e. VAX VMS V5.4 or  >older.) >  >--  >John Santos >Evans Griffiths & Hart, Inc.  >781-861-0670 ext 539  >   ? The problem was in the specification of dates for /TERMINATION. A I place the PAKGEN in a DCL procedure so that temporary licensed  ? generated easily.  The procedure used 'F$time() and added on an @ arbitrary number of days.  It then handed of the entire datetime to PAKGEN.  Oops.    --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM              5   "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?"     ------------------------------    Date: 10 May 2002 07:52:03 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) E Subject: Re: Anybody get the CSA/PAKGEN to generate *valid* licenses? 3 Message-ID: <A83jNDTgwVe9@eisner.encompasserve.org>   W In article <1020510000116.353A-100000@Ives.egh.com>, John Santos <JOHN@egh.com> writes:   B > What is the target (customer) system?  PAKGEN seems to make only? > the newer-format licenses (checksum begins with "2-")  If the > > targer system is old enough, maybe it only supports the "1-"@ > licenses.  (I think this preceded Alphas, i.e. VAX VMS V5.4 or	 > older.)   E VMS V5.0 and V5.1 were the only ones that had LMF but only handled -1 	 licenses.    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 07:30:44 +0100 1 From: Steve Reece <SYSTEM@ipl.demon.co.nospam.uk> 2 Subject: Re: Best DCL programm you've ever written6 Message-ID: <3CDB7724.331F5F73@ipl.demon.co.nospam.uk>  E An alternative Nic is to put ACLs on the printer queues and not allow E access to the queues for those that violated the rules.  That way you E can let them use the worst printers in the organisation (so that they G can still work, just!) but can't get any decent quality output printed.   9 Also lets people use dot matrix printers with no penalty.   F Yes, this is based on an idea from my college days and was linked intoH print accounting.  The package where an inital zero balance was positiveA but every other time the balance reached zero it was negative and  prevented printing.    Steve.     David J. Dachtera wrote: >  > Nic Clews wrote: > >  > > Gijs wrote:  > > > F > > > When was it, what does it do for you and whe can it be obtained? > > C > > I guess I have to put an entry in for my PAPER.COM, a 200 block  > > monstrosity that:  > > K > > 1. Used accounting to determine paper usage over a seven day period per  > > user account7 > > 2. Send warning emails to those approaching limits. L > > 3. Disable the PRINT command for those who have exceeded the 7 day paper	 > > quota 3 > > (and we made them pay a fine to be re-enabled!) G > > 4. Produce a top ten list of the worst paper abusers for display at  > > system login: > > (The hall of shame but didn't always have that effect)A > > 5. Automatically re-enable those after their exclusion period  > > ; > > No, you don't want a copy, and it was in the late 80's.  > > I > > Anyone reading this list become a victim of this? If you've read this / > > you'll know where it was! And yes, it's me!  > D > I tried that once, at management's request. I had to show them theF > results: since all the app. users log into the same VMS account (butI > different "accounts" within the app.), the numbers were not as valuable I > as they had hoped. At least we could tell the difference between system J > printing activity (users like SYSTEM, OPERATOR, etc.) and the app. users > as a collective. >  > -- > David J. Dachtera  > dba DJE Systems  > http://www.djesys.com/ > * > Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page:! > http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    --  G "A shadow fell over her face; clear, as if the composure were rent like E a veil.  And her lips parted, but only with a short intake of breath. A Then she said, 'Well, then you are right.  Indeed, we are even.'" % 		Louis, "Interview with the Vampire"    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 07:43:33 +0100 ( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1>- Subject: Re: Bob Palmer and the demise of DEC ) Message-ID: <3CDB6C15.28395634@127.0.0.1>    JF Mezei wrote:  > * > Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy wrote:8 > > If is makes you feel any better Sun has a OpenVMS to% > > Solaris Affinity Program as well.  > O > Andrew, if one wanted to make some DECUS presentation to local folks, would a M > local SUN office be able to provide technical information on such program ? L > (not a sales pitch, but a real technical presentation of the program tools > etc) ? > E > Or is there someone at Sun headquarters who could travel for this ?   @ I certainly hope that the UNIX portability initiatives get equalB 'airplay' from the relevant folks, where of course Sun is a target source platform.   --  ( Regards, Nic Clews CSC Computer Sciences nclews at csc dot com    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 04:17:41 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> - Subject: Re: Bob Palmer and the demise of DEC , Message-ID: <3CDB8213.7ED70C89@videotron.ca>   Nic Clews wrote:B > I certainly hope that the UNIX portability initiatives get equalD > 'airplay' from the relevant folks, where of course Sun is a target > source platform.    N The mistake HP made is starting now to tell VMS folks to migrate to Unix, at aK time when HP doesn't have a unix it can accurately describe. Until HP-UX is L commercially used on IA64, and until the integration of Tru64 is complete, ID think that folks will not really care to invest mega money in HP-UX.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 12:00:36 +0100 U From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <andrew_nospam.harrison_remove_this@sun#.com> - Subject: Re: Bob Palmer and the demise of DEC 0 Message-ID: <abg98k$pq1$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   JF Mezei wrote:   * > Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy wrote: > 6 >>If is makes you feel any better Sun has a OpenVMS to# >>Solaris Affinity Program as well.  >> > O > Andrew, if one wanted to make some DECUS presentation to local folks, would a M > local SUN office be able to provide technical information on such program ? L > (not a sales pitch, but a real technical presentation of the program tools > etc) ? >   2 Yes this is the agenda for a TOI we are holding on the subject.  K This TOI covers the methodologies and techniques for 		migrating customers   from VMS/Alpha to Solaris.   Topics covered  3 portable C++ implementation of the VMS system calls ) programming language conversion tools for -   -Fortran, Pascal, ADA, PL/I etc to C++ or C )   -Database conversion to Oracle database &   -web enabling of legacy applications7   -Pathworks for Macintosh and VAXft migration services #   -TP monitors and Screen handling, A   -design and maintenance of device drivers for obsolete hardware G   -migration tools for PDP-11 / ED1000 and BECOS based power generation #    and distribution control systems   F The tools that do this are from 3rd parties, SunPS and the 3rd parties& can provide the bodies to do the work.     Regards  Andrew Harrison    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 04:43:18 -0700 # From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> - Subject: RE: Bob Palmer and the demise of DEC 9 Message-ID: <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIOEFAEPAA.tom@kednos.com>    >-----Original Message----- ( >From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy5 >[mailto:andrew_nospam.harrison_remove_this@sun#.com] # >Sent: Friday, May 10, 2002 4:01 AM  >To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com. >Subject: Re: Bob Palmer and the demise of DEC >  >  >  >  >JF Mezei wrote: > + >> Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy wrote:  >> O7 >>>If is makes you feel any better Sun has a OpenVMS toe$ >>>Solaris Affinity Program as well. >>>? >>  B >> Andrew, if one wanted to make some DECUS presentation to local  >folks, would aG@ >> local SUN office be able to provide technical information on  >such program ?o@ >> (not a sales pitch, but a real technical presentation of the  >program tools	 >> etc) ?d >>   >D3 >Yes this is the agenda for a TOI we are holding onm
 >the subject.s >f8 >This TOI covers the methodologies and techniques for 		 >migrating customers   >from VMS/Alpha to Solaris.  >D >Topics coveredr >d4 >portable C++ implementation of the VMS system calls* >programming language conversion tools for. >  -Fortran, Pascal, ADA, PL/I etc to C++ or C* >  -Database conversion to Oracle database' >  -web enabling of legacy applicationsl8 >  -Pathworks for Macintosh and VAXft migration services$ >  -TP monitors and Screen handling,B >  -design and maintenance of device drivers for obsolete hardwareH >  -migration tools for PDP-11 / ED1000 and BECOS based power generation$ >   and distribution control systems >rG >The tools that do this are from 3rd parties, SunPS and the 3rd partiese' >can provide the bodies to do the work.i  D It is not easy to convert from a high-level to a low level language.F Don't you have all these compilers running Sun?  Why make the customerF convert at all, it has to be an impediment to sales?  By legacy do youI mean programs written in the languages you want people to move away from?u   >n >s >Regards >Andrew Harrison >a >l >---' >Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. ; >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).s@ >Version: 6.0.360 / Virus Database: 199 - Release Date: 5/7/2002 >s --- & Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.: Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).? Version: 6.0.360 / Virus Database: 199 - Release Date: 5/7/2002s   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 12:07:35 GMTx1 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com>u- Subject: Re: Bob Palmer and the demise of DEC , Message-ID: <bKOC8.15643$RR3.7792@sccrnsc02>  , > > Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy wrote:: > > > If is makes you feel any better Sun has a OpenVMS to' > > > Solaris Affinity Program as well.   L Andrew, you have my email address. I'd be interested (seriously) in learning$ more about the Sun affinity program.   Thanks,    terry s    ------------------------------   Date: 10 May 2002 13:41:28 GMT From: phn@icke-reklam.ipsec.nu- Subject: Re: Bob Palmer and the demise of DECw) Message-ID: <abgim8$8g2$8@nyheter.crt.se>   ) Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1> wrote:  > JF Mezei wrote:t >> n+ >> Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy wrote:e9 >> > If is makes you feel any better Sun has a OpenVMS to & >> > Solaris Affinity Program as well. >> pP >> Andrew, if one wanted to make some DECUS presentation to local folks, would aN >> local SUN office be able to provide technical information on such program ?M >> (not a sales pitch, but a real technical presentation of the program tools 	 >> etc) ?u >> uF >> Or is there someone at Sun headquarters who could travel for this ?  B > I certainly hope that the UNIX portability initiatives get equalD > 'airplay' from the relevant folks, where of course Sun is a target > source platform.  E For what it's worth, Sun has been delivering a coherent and long-term = range of products ( yes you might argue about it's merits but A that's irrelevant) No users has been cut off, even the BSD loving E customers ( those that made Sun so big) has been treated fairly well.i3 No users of Sun equipment has been turned down.    s    7 I would vote for Sun given a "preffered vendor" status.t   > -- m* > Regards, Nic Clews CSC Computer Sciences > nclews at csc dot come   -- a Peter Hkanson         l7         IPSec  Sverige      ( At Gothenburg Riverside )aJ            Sorry about my e-mail address, but i'm trying to keep spam out,; 	   remove "icke-reklam" if you feel for mailing me. Thanx.y   ------------------------------    Date: 10 May 2002 08:06:36 -0700( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)- Subject: Re: Bob Palmer and the demise of DECV= Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0205100706.381b43cb@posting.google.com>t  a JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message news:<3CDB8213.7ED70C89@videotron.ca>...r > Nic Clews wrote:D > > I certainly hope that the UNIX portability initiatives get equalF > > 'airplay' from the relevant folks, where of course Sun is a target > > source platform. >  > P > The mistake HP made is starting now to tell VMS folks to migrate to Unix, at aM > time when HP doesn't have a unix it can accurately describe. Until HP-UX is0N > commercially used on IA64, and until the integration of Tru64 is complete, IF > think that folks will not really care to invest mega money in HP-UX.  G The mistake HP made is to try to get VMS users to move to any unix, not 5 just HP UX ... because it just ain't going to happen!    ------------------------------  + Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 15:39:03 +0000 (UTC)- From: david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk- Subject: Re: Bob Palmer and the demise of DEC5+ Message-ID: <abgpim$gph$2@aquila.mdx.ac.uk>u  h In article <d7791aa1.0205100706.381b43cb@posting.google.com>, bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski) writes:b >JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message news:<3CDB8213.7ED70C89@videotron.ca>... >> Nic Clews wrote:eE >> > I certainly hope that the UNIX portability initiatives get equal G >> > 'airplay' from the relevant folks, where of course Sun is a targetn >> > source platform." >> t >> mQ >> The mistake HP made is starting now to tell VMS folks to migrate to Unix, at adN >> time when HP doesn't have a unix it can accurately describe. Until HP-UX isO >> commercially used on IA64, and until the integration of Tru64 is complete, I G >> think that folks will not really care to invest mega money in HP-UX.  >mH >The mistake HP made is to try to get VMS users to move to any unix, not6 >just HP UX ... because it just ain't going to happen!  I Slight correction it will happen if HPQ really forces it but in that casehP it definitely won't be to HP-UX. And many of the people in those companies will M be so upset with HPQ that HPQ will be lucky to sell them a toner cartridge in  the next 5 years.e  
 David Webb VMS and Unix team leader CCSS Middlesex University   ------------------------------   Date: 10 May 2002 17:16:41 GMT1 From: bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)s- Subject: Re: Bob Palmer and the demise of DECn+ Message-ID: <abgv9p$ejl$4@info.cs.uofs.edu>g  = In article <d7791aa1.0205100706.381b43cb@posting.google.com>, +  bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski) writes:rd |> JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message news:<3CDB8213.7ED70C89@videotron.ca>... |> > Nic Clews wrote:cG |> > > I certainly hope that the UNIX portability initiatives get equalcI |> > > 'airplay' from the relevant folks, where of course Sun is a targett |> > > source platform.  |> > i |> > eS |> > The mistake HP made is starting now to tell VMS folks to migrate to Unix, at a P |> > time when HP doesn't have a unix it can accurately describe. Until HP-UX isQ |> > commercially used on IA64, and until the integration of Tru64 is complete, IfI |> > think that folks will not really care to invest mega money in HP-UX.  |> TJ |> The mistake HP made is to try to get VMS users to move to any unix, not8 |> just HP UX ... because it just ain't going to happen!  G It will happen no more than one year from the day HP decides it will no F longer issue License Paks for VMS.  Unless you figure all those reallyF big businesses that are still running VMS will be willing to run their: DP operations on a machine with the clock set back a year.   bill   -- aJ Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   r   ------------------------------   Date: 10 May 02 08:53:14 +0200) From: p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture)e( Subject: Burning Bridges, Buck House etc) Message-ID: <Xtchbe6EM+WN@elias.decus.ch>(   In article <abe8nd$978$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <andrew_nospam.harrison_remove_this@sun#.com> writes: >  >  > Paul Sture wrote:@ >  >> In article <ab8rfj$lf3$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <andrew_nospam.harrison_remove_this@sun#.com> writes:s >> a >>>l >>>Terry C. Shannon wrote: >>>h >>>m: >>>>"Paul Sture" <p_sture@elias.decus.ch> wrote in message' >>>>news:0FQSb6NeQY8Z@elias.decus.ch.... >>>>M >>>>I don't think so. IIRC the city fathers of Lake Havasu City, Arizona, USAtO >>>>bought that bridge over 30 years ago. The "bridge over water that shouldn't K >>>>be there" was still standing when I flew over it a couple of weeks ago.  >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>r@ >>>We have a new London Bridge built to replace the old one from? >>>now on called London Bridge 95. Now if we could interest Bobe >>>in buying both. >>>.A >>>Incedentally the story was that Lake Havasu City bought London D >>>Bridge thinking it was Tower Bridge (much more interesting bridge' >>>if you are into that sort of thing).- >>>- >>>-M >> Which is exactly why I picked London Bridge as an offer. It somehow seemedy >> highly appropriate :-)A >  > E > Now I am confused, were we selling Buck house and the London Bridgew? > in Lake Havasu City, or Buck and the London Bridge in London.1 > J You were selling Buck House, I was selling London Bridge. I didn't specifyE which one. Any will do if I can relieve Bob the Mouth of his savings.n  E > If its the one in london the I have changed my mind, you can't sellm6 > it because I have to walk over it 3 days a week :):) > 1 It takes great concentration to walk on water.:-)   K But both you and Terry missed the point. Selling a bridge, Buck House or LesN Tour d'Eiffel is an exercise in selling something you do not own and the buyer cannot claim for themselves.  D As for Bridges for Bob, I now have in mind the wobbly footbridge :-)   __
 Paul Sture Switzerland3   ------------------------------    Date: 10 May 2002 13:43:41 +0200a From: holitska_a@removehomo-togetvalide-mailhomo-ludens.elte.hu (Holi - Holitska Andrs) , Subject: Re: Burning Bridges, Buck House etc! Message-ID: <o9+TbMskXHu+@ludens>l  U In article <Xtchbe6EM+WN@elias.decus.ch>, p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture) writes:d >m	 8< ... >8e3 > It takes great concentration to walk on water.:-)    Partially true:s     Matthew 14,28-31.:  9   "And Peter, answering, said to him, Lord, if it is you, 0   give me the order to come to you on the water.  7   And he said, Come. And Peter got out of the boat, and &   walking on the water, went to Jesus.  7   But when he saw the wind he was in fear and, startings$   he gave a cry, saying, Help, Lord.  8   And straight away Jesus put out his hand and took grip5   of him, and said to him, O man of little faith, whyt   were you in doubt?"c     :]   God be wiht You, bye:  <Holi>s   >d	 8< ... >8e >  > __ > Paul Sture
 > Switzerlandn   ------------------------------    Date: 10 May 2002 04:19:40 -0700( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)< Subject: Re: Capellas: Linux, Windows Will 'Eviscerate' Unix= Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0205100319.4c08babd@posting.google.com>e  X Ken Green <Ken.Green@kgcc.co.uk> wrote in message news:<3CD2F4FC.5074D966@kgcc.co.uk>... > JF Mezei wrote:t >  > > Ken Green wrote:R > > > HP has just killed off it's own (profitable) proprietary (non Unix) OS, what > > > chance- > > > that VMS will still exist by year end ?m > >hO > > Because VMS generates the profits necessary to subsidize the PC operations. R > > And during the merger, I think that HP will need all the profits it can get to > > pay for Carly's folly. > >sR > > *IF* Carly takes objective decisions that are not based solely on the drive toP > > be Wintel only with a sprinkling of Linux, she will keep VMS and Tandem justO > > alive enough to keep those customers and generate enough profits to sustains > > the PC operation.  > >-R > > At this point in time, it seems unlikely that Carly would start to push VMS asJ > > an active solution and allow its marketing and competing against otherQ > > platforms. Considering the "wintel, industry standard, linux" rethoric coming O > > from HP/Compaq, I think that the best we can expect is the status quo wheree[ > > VMS remains but stays in total obscurity and is maintained only for exsiting customers.- > S > You missed the point, MPE was in exactly the same position. It hadn't been pushedsV > in years, if it hadn't have been for Y2K it probably would never even have been fed.2 > But it kept making profits, it still got canned.  E MPE got canned because of a number of things that would have made thebA port difficult ... 16 bit file system, neglect ... vms has a much L larger user base ans is already 64 bit, which makes its port much easier ...   ------------------------------    Date: 10 May 2002 04:26:48 -0700( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)< Subject: Re: Capellas: Linux, Windows Will 'Eviscerate' Unix= Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0205100326.222f17fb@posting.google.com>l  X Ken Green <Ken.Green@kgcc.co.uk> wrote in message news:<3CD2DE32.D354B6B0@kgcc.co.uk>... > John Vottero wrote:, > : > > "Kenneth Farmer" <kfarmer@farmer.org> wrote in message= > > news:VCtA8.31416$gd5.10719128@typhoon.southeast.rr.com...  > > >-O > > > http://www.crn.com/Sections/BreakingNews/BreakingNews.asp?ArticleID=35060< > > >. > >oO > > I have to agree with Capellas, in fact, it seems obvious to me.  You can noDC > > longer sell Unix by claiming that it's the "Open/Standard" O/S.tK > > Linux/NetBSD/FreeBSD are the only true open/standard operating systems. N > > Unix vendors have to start pointing at their proprietary extensions as theK > > reason to buy their flavor of *nix.  The world is going to wind up withdL > > Windows, Linux and proprietary operation systems.  With OpenVMS, NSK and= > > Tru64/HP-UX,  HP rivals IBM as king of the proprietary OS  > N > HP has just killed off it's own (profitable) proprietary (non Unix) OS, what > chance) > that VMS will still exist by year end ?  >   F it already has survived, and I would say that jstars, miltary, DOD, USG gov use, Cerner, Pitts. Super Computing and the list goes on and on are-I the reason vms will survive ... MPE was 16 bit, neglected, no clustering,rH smaller user base, and quite frankly, not on the level of vms, or it tooH would have made it ... thank goodness some in our government and DOD areK not idiots, or our defense would get hacked to death in the coming attacks,aI for the depts. that use vms, they will survive, others I think will be in  trouble ...p   ------------------------------    Date: 10 May 2002 04:31:12 -0700( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)< Subject: Re: Capellas: Linux, Windows Will 'Eviscerate' Unix= Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0205100331.3ac58b2a@posting.google.com>a  X Ken Green <Ken.Green@kgcc.co.uk> wrote in message news:<3CDA7CFA.BC4C7E8E@kgcc.co.uk>... > Bob Ceculski wrote:s >  > J > > I didn't cross post to hp, I post only in vms ... you must have picked > > it up yourself ... > G > You might not have intended to cross post it to other newsgroups, butm@ > I'm afraid you did. AFAIK this whole thread has been posted to >  > comp.unix.tru64v > comp.sys.hp.hpux > andr
 > comp.os.vmsa >  > Cheers >  > KenD  F I am using Internet Exploder in google, and I click on the pretty text@ that says "Post a new message to comp.os.vms" ... I am followingF instructions ... if they web site is screwed up, I can't help that ...F unless there is a hidden secret undocumented trick to make that script work right?    ------------------------------    Date: 10 May 2002 11:49:22 -0000= From: Doc.Cypher <Use-Author-Supplied-Address-Header@[127.1]>@< Subject: Re: Capellas: Linux, Windows Will 'Eviscerate' Unix6 Message-ID: <20020510114922.11186.qmail@gacracker.org>  9 On 10 May 2002, bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski) wrote:    <snip>  G >I am using Internet Exploder in google, and I click on the pretty text A >that says "Post a new message to comp.os.vms" ... I am followingwG >instructions ... if they web site is screwed up, I can't help that ...>G >unless there is a hidden secret undocumented trick to make that scriptt >work right?  K When you are using Google and select to post a new message, or follow up tooH an existing message, it displays a field "Send to Group(s):". This lists4 *all* the newsgroups your message will be posted to.  I There is no "hidden secret undocumented trick". It just requires that youm$ make effective use of your eyeballs.     Doc. -- i6 The bigger the humbug, the better people will like it.K ~ Phineas Taylor Barnum.                             https://vmsbox.cjb.netn   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 13:21:54 +0100o/ From: Simon Waters <Simon@wretched.demon.co.uk>a< Subject: Re: Capellas: Linux, Windows Will 'Eviscerate' Unix4 Message-ID: <3CDBBB62.476A9C48@wretched.demon.co.uk>   Bob Ceculski wrote:- > 7 > ... thank goodness some in our government and DOD areoM > not idiots, or our defense would get hacked to death in the coming attacks, 0 > for the depts. that use vms, they will survive  > Your faith in VMS security is touching, but the Defcon results@ you quote weren't some out of the box install of VMS, but a well thought out configuration.    > I have less faith in the governments abilities (both yours and> ours) to defend their own systems adequately, let alone deploy= infrastructure protection to defend other critical aspects ofu@ the electronic infrastructure. I dare say some of them will even: misadminister VMS boxes to the point where they get hacked easily.m  = Skill in administration is still I suspect far more importants< than any other aspect of security. I suspect VMS benefits in; shoot outs like Defcon from obscurity, why waste many hourss? trying to hack an OS you don't understand, when you can pick upw@ kills easier by hacking those you do. Meanwhile back in the real3 world VMS suffers due to lack of those same skills.    ------------------------------   Date: 10 May 2002 12:07:08 GMT& From: Volker Birk <bumens@dingens.org>< Subject: Re: Capellas: Linux, Windows Will 'Eviscerate' Unix< Message-ID: <3cdbb7eb$0$223$4d4ebb8e@businessnews.de.uu.net>  B In comp.sys.hp.hpux Bob Koehler <koehler@encompasserve.org> wrote:I >    Some Linux use BSD-style text configuration files that can be edited H >    by hand.  Other's seem to use SVID-style binary configuration files* >    that can't readily be edited by hand.  D Never saw that. Could you tell us an example where is no text source
 available?  I >    And nothing in the typical Linux distribution points out which tools.F >    are in common with other vendor's Linux, so the kid has no way to  >    know which tools to choose.  ? Kids should not administrate boxes but if they're good hackers.a  H >    How minor the differences are depend on what work you're doing.  At: >    the end user level all UNIX are pretty much the same.  > So a text terminal is pretty much the same as a GNOME-Desktop?/ And CDE is pretty much the same as WindowMaker?r  G For the end user, *NIX has that UI the administrator chose (somtimes itsG has an ugly UI the vendor offers as default if there was an incompetentt system engineer).    >    At theyF >    programmer level real differences start to show up.  To the adminI >    every UNIX is dramaticaly different.  This last issue drives up costeE >    as the manpower needed to admin all those different UNIX becomeshB >    significant over any one-vendor solution, whethe a UNIX based  >    solution or something else.  H I'm sorry, but this is incredible nonsense. Today I manage SuSE, RedHat,H Debian, sometimes Slackware Boxes, I have NetBSD, FreeBSD, MacOS-X here,G I do in Solaris, HP-UX and SCO Unix, sometimes other derivates of Unix.mF You just need to know the difference between a BSD init and a System VD init and grep -r. It helps if you know the rc.config and rc.config.dH concept many System V or System V like Unices have. And it helps to read and grep the scripts of course.r  D It is necessary to understand the basic terms, which are the same at every *NIX Box, that is true.n  D An "admin" who is only able to "point and click" should stop his/herB work _immediately_ and learn. Fortunately there is no "MinesweeperF Certified Solitaire Engineer" for Unix or something like that. And theB "titles" like "Slowlaris-Expert" or "HPsUX Expert" are bad enough.  G >    And I still insist that an open system is one I can see inside.  IeD >    can affort a source listing for VMS.  I can generally get LinuxE >    source off the net, but I still don't know anyone who can affordg9 >    a Solaris, HP-UX, AIX, ... proprietary UNIX license.a  B *NIX mainly is a "text-processing application". So you have enoughD source code for general purposes anyway, you just don't need to knowF kernel source or source of binary tools for administrational purposes.E Just read the man pages and have a look at the scripts. Especially dobG read the boot scripts when you have your first contact with a new *NIX.   C Hint: try to bring up a Linux box from scratch. You will learn manyx1 useful things, even much about Unices themselves.E   VB.s -- DC *** ebios Informationssysteme, Germany      ***  kangu:~ $ cd /pub/.G *** Gut-Betha-Platz 1, 88339 Bad Waldsee    ***  kangu:/pub $ more beer H *** Phone +49-7524-93421 Fax +49-7524-93423 ***  Aaahhhh! That was good!? *** mailto:vb@ebios.de                      ***  kangu:/pub $ _h   ------------------------------   Date: 10 May 2002 12:10:11 GMT& From: Volker Birk <bumens@dingens.org>< Subject: Re: Capellas: Linux, Windows Will 'Eviscerate' Unix< Message-ID: <3cdbb8a2$0$223$4d4ebb8e@businessnews.de.uu.net>  8 In comp.sys.hp.hpux Dan Mercer <damercer@mmm.com> wrote:C > Although this is largely true,  it is not completely true.  While H > the BSD printing system (LPR) is entirely based on ASCII config files,I > regrettably the SysV system (LPD) is not.  This makes it very difficult 2 > to work with or to duplicate to a mirror server.  G Yet another reason not to use System V lp, but lpd. Or better use CUPS.t   VB.a -- iC *** ebios Informationssysteme, Germany      ***  kangu:~ $ cd /pub/PG *** Gut-Betha-Platz 1, 88339 Bad Waldsee    ***  kangu:/pub $ more beerQH *** Phone +49-7524-93421 Fax +49-7524-93423 ***  Aaahhhh! That was good!? *** mailto:vb@ebios.de                      ***  kangu:/pub $ _v   ------------------------------   Date: 10 May 2002 12:13:41 GMT& From: Volker Birk <bumens@dingens.org>< Subject: Re: Capellas: Linux, Windows Will 'Eviscerate' Unix< Message-ID: <3cdbb974$0$223$4d4ebb8e@businessnews.de.uu.net>  = In comp.sys.hp.hpux Bob Ceculski <bob@instantwhip.com> wrote:a > any other platform other thanr% > OpenVMS is a joke ... it's GARBAGE!n  G *plonk* - added to the score file with score 100 for opening an OS war.e   VB.e -- >C *** ebios Informationssysteme, Germany      ***  kangu:~ $ cd /pub/cG *** Gut-Betha-Platz 1, 88339 Bad Waldsee    ***  kangu:/pub $ more beereH *** Phone +49-7524-93421 Fax +49-7524-93423 ***  Aaahhhh! That was good!? *** mailto:vb@ebios.de                      ***  kangu:/pub $ _m   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 13:35:39 +0100>& From: Ken Green <Ken.Green@kgcc.co.uk>< Subject: Re: Capellas: Linux, Windows Will 'Eviscerate' Unix* Message-ID: <3CDBBE9B.B9A93498@kgcc.co.uk>   Bob Ceculski wrote:e  Z > Ken Green <Ken.Green@kgcc.co.uk> wrote in message news:<3CD2DE32.D354B6B0@kgcc.co.uk>... > > John Vottero wrote:h > >!< > > > "Kenneth Farmer" <kfarmer@farmer.org> wrote in message? > > > news:VCtA8.31416$gd5.10719128@typhoon.southeast.rr.com...g > > > >hQ > > > > http://www.crn.com/Sections/BreakingNews/BreakingNews.asp?ArticleID=35060  > > > >i > > >aQ > > > I have to agree with Capellas, in fact, it seems obvious to me.  You can no|E > > > longer sell Unix by claiming that it's the "Open/Standard" O/S. M > > > Linux/NetBSD/FreeBSD are the only true open/standard operating systems.aP > > > Unix vendors have to start pointing at their proprietary extensions as theM > > > reason to buy their flavor of *nix.  The world is going to wind up with(N > > > Windows, Linux and proprietary operation systems.  With OpenVMS, NSK and? > > > Tru64/HP-UX,  HP rivals IBM as king of the proprietary OSc > >AP > > HP has just killed off it's own (profitable) proprietary (non Unix) OS, what
 > > chance+ > > that VMS will still exist by year end ?8 > >f >@H > it already has survived, and I would say that jstars, miltary, DOD, USI > gov use, Cerner, Pitts. Super Computing and the list goes on and on aretK > the reason vms will survive ... MPE was 16 bit, neglected, no clustering,>@ > smaller user base, and quite frankly, not on the level of vms,  6 MPE was 16bit many years ago... back before Risc CPUs,: modern versions run quite happily on 32bit and 64bit CPUs.: The move to 32bits was made in 1986. Probably at about the same time I last used VMS.  E True it's user base was smaller than VMS' but it was still profitablet2 since it customers were prepared to pay a premium.     > or it tooiJ > would have made it ... thank goodness some in our government and DOD areM > not idiots, or our defense would get hacked to death in the coming attacks,dK > for the depts. that use vms, they will survive, others I think will be in>
 > trouble ...i  ; Are we talking about the same people who have made it theirw5 avowed intention to run aircraft carriers on Window ?m   ------------------------------    Date: 10 May 2002 07:47:34 -0600- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) < Subject: Re: Capellas: Linux, Windows Will 'Eviscerate' Unix3 Message-ID: <Jy4$brkQh5qr@eisner.encompasserve.org>   V In article <abdrok$qjc@web.eng.baileynm.com>, peter@abbnm.com (Peter da Silva) writes: > ' > Will you guys quit putting down HPUX?h  7    I hate to depress you, but we still call it PH-UX.  c  H    Which suggestst that so those looking for how to pronounce HPETS can D    just ignore the spelling order and call it "fets".  I'm hoping it    won't need the -ux part.t    a   ------------------------------    Date: 10 May 2002 07:49:09 -0600- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) < Subject: Re: Capellas: Linux, Windows Will 'Eviscerate' Unix3 Message-ID: <WXLwdkreAEgj@eisner.encompasserve.org>a  h In article <d7791aa1.0205090634.3aee3af2@posting.google.com>, bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski) writes: > G > I have been on vms 17+ years now still waiting for my first os crash,e > what about you?c  =    There's really no point in trying to use factual arguments     on those who live on hype.t   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 14:20:23 +0100P& From: Ken Green <Ken.Green@kgcc.co.uk>< Subject: Re: Capellas: Linux, Windows Will 'Eviscerate' Unix* Message-ID: <3CDBC917.9DCCA8AA@kgcc.co.uk>   Bob Ceculski wrote:n  Z > Ken Green <Ken.Green@kgcc.co.uk> wrote in message news:<3CDA7CFA.BC4C7E8E@kgcc.co.uk>... > > Bob Ceculski wrote:l > >r > > L > > > I didn't cross post to hp, I post only in vms ... you must have picked > > > it up yourself ... > >hI > > You might not have intended to cross post it to other newsgroups, but B > > I'm afraid you did. AFAIK this whole thread has been posted to > >- > > comp.unix.tru640 > > comp.sys.hp.hpux > > and  > > comp.os.vmso > >b
 > > Cheers > >c > > Kenp >aH > I am using Internet Exploder in google, and I click on the pretty textB > that says "Post a new message to comp.os.vms" ... I am followingH > instructions ... if they web site is screwed up, I can't help that ...H > unless there is a hidden secret undocumented trick to make that script
 > work right?y  = I think you'll find theres a news reader for VMS, which woulds< save you from the indignity of suffer less systems. Have you taken a look at aun-news ?  A I apologies if you have and find it lacking in someway, I have noa> experience with it but a very quick search of google suggested/ it as being more suitable to your requirements.    Cheers   Keno   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 13:43:46 GMTe. From: peter@langstoeger.at (Peter LANGSTOEGER)< Subject: Re: Capellas: Linux, Windows Will 'Eviscerate' Unix1 Message-ID: <m8QC8.1749$5a4.19388@news.chello.at>,  h In article <d7791aa1.0205090634.3aee3af2@posting.google.com>, bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski) writes:F >I have been on vms 17+ years now still waiting for my first os crash,   Try to:,  
 1) Enable XFCc 2) Install&Run PATHWORKS 3) Install&Run DECnet/OSIc 4) Install&Run UCX* 5) any other kernel mode program with bugs  G and the probability of VMS crashes raises about umpteen thousand if not  million percent.  K Yes, there is no better Opsys than VMS, but it definetely has seen crashes.    -- h Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGERy% Network and OpenVMS system specialist  E-mail  peter@langstoeger.atP A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm looking for (a) Network _and_ VMS Job(s)   ------------------------------    Date: 10 May 2002 10:30:23 -0600+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) < Subject: Re: Capellas: Linux, Windows Will 'Eviscerate' Unix3 Message-ID: <tnAnGQUzgVBh@eisner.encompasserve.org>o  U In article <abgni8$ck@web.eng.baileynm.com>, peter@abbnm.com (Peter da Silva) writes: ? > In article <d7791aa1.0205090634.3aee3af2@posting.google.com>,m+ > Bob Ceculski <bob@instantwhip.com> wrote:i< >> > >>|> The best hackers in the country tried to hack VMS: > H > The best hackers in the country aren't the guys who break into systems > and talk about it at DEFCON. >    	Boulder-dash.  I 	Of the hundreds/thousands that attend DEFCON there are varying levels ofsA 	intelligence and ability.  Maybe the percentage of top talent is,< 	in the range of 5%, that would still leave 50 or 100 of the' 	attendees at the truly talented level.a  @ 	As a very appropriate analogy, (my opinion of course) I am sureA 	a few people (1? 2?) warming seats at a WWF slam-fest are MENSA tC 	candidates.  The proportion of MENSA candidates is much higher at  + 	Oxford, Cambridge and Harvard in contrast.    				RobL   ------------------------------  + Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 15:22:56 +0000 (UTC)  From: david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk< Subject: Re: Capellas: Linux, Windows Will 'Eviscerate' Unix+ Message-ID: <abgokg$gph$1@aquila.mdx.ac.uk>   S In article <3CDBC917.9DCCA8AA@kgcc.co.uk>, Ken Green <Ken.Green@kgcc.co.uk> writes:s >Bob Ceculski wrote: >D[ >> Ken Green <Ken.Green@kgcc.co.uk> wrote in message news:<3CDA7CFA.BC4C7E8E@kgcc.co.uk>...v >> > Bob Ceculski wrote: >> > >> >M >> > > I didn't cross post to hp, I post only in vms ... you must have pickedl >> > > it up yourself ...a >> >J >> > You might not have intended to cross post it to other newsgroups, butC >> > I'm afraid you did. AFAIK this whole thread has been posted to  >> > >> > comp.unix.tru64 >> > comp.sys.hp.hpuxi >> > and >> > comp.os.vms >> > >> > Cheers- >> > >> > Ken >>I >> I am using Internet Exploder in google, and I click on the pretty textuC >> that says "Post a new message to comp.os.vms" ... I am followingDI >> instructions ... if they web site is screwed up, I can't help that ...nI >> unless there is a hidden secret undocumented trick to make that script  >> work right? > > >I think you'll find theres a news reader for VMS, which would= >save you from the indignity of suffer less systems. Have youa >taken a look at aun-news ?t >t  H There are a fair number of Usenet News readers for VMS. My favourite is  called NEWSRDR.   
 David Webb VMS and Unix team leader CCSS Middlesex University  B >I apologies if you have and find it lacking in someway, I have no? >experience with it but a very quick search of google suggestedv0 >it as being more suitable to your requirements. >s >Cheersr >d >Ken >n >h   ------------------------------   Date: 10 May 2002 15:04:40 GMT& From: peter@abbnm.com (Peter da Silva)< Subject: Re: Capellas: Linux, Windows Will 'Eviscerate' Unix, Message-ID: <abgni8$ck@web.eng.baileynm.com>  = In article <d7791aa1.0205090634.3aee3af2@posting.google.com>,s) Bob Ceculski <bob@instantwhip.com> wrote:1; > > >>|> The best hackers in the country tried to hack VMS:o  F The best hackers in the country aren't the guys who break into systems and talk about it at DEFCON.   --  O I've seen things you people can't imagine. Chimneysweeps on fire over the roofs O of London. I've watched kite-strings glitter in the sun at Hyde Park Gate.  AlldL these things will be lost in time, like chalk-paintings in the rain.   `-_-'K Time for your nap.  | Peter da Silva | Har du kramat din varg, idag?    'U`n   ------------------------------   Date: 10 May 2002 15:21:10 GMT& From: peter@abbnm.com (Peter da Silva)< Subject: Re: Capellas: Linux, Windows Will 'Eviscerate' Unix- Message-ID: <abgoh6$1lj@web.eng.baileynm.com>   3 In article <5ruAmzPQaszA@eisner.encompasserve.org>,t. Bob Koehler <koehler@encompasserve.org> wrote:X > In article <abcfb8$t69@web.eng.baileynm.com>, peter@abbnm.com (Peter da Silva) writes:7 > > In article <LFcvM8aLHkw+@eisner.encompasserve.org>,o2 > > Bob Koehler <koehler@encompasserve.org> wrote:L > >>    Some Linux use BSD-style text configuration files that can be editedK > >>    by hand.  Other's seem to use SVID-style binary configuration filesm- > >>    that can't readily be edited by hand.   J > > Doesn't really matter. What those tools end up doing are much the sameK > > things in either case... in fact a great way to learn would be to go ingI > > to the startup scripts and trace everything through and see where theVO > > configuration information gets converted to actual changes in system state.n  H >    What makes you think all configuration files are written by startup
 >    scripts?y  J How does "see where the configuration information gets converted to actualK changes in system state" translate to anything even vaguely resembling "all 4 configuration files are written by startup scripts"?  M Regardless of how the configuration is managed by the configuration tools, itfN has to be read from that database and converted into changes in the text filesO that the UNIX daemons that actually do the work use, and to changes in internaluB state that can be read and later written by command line programs.  N Therefore, regardless of what the tools do, they can always be replaced by theO files they eventually generate and update, and by a sequence of commands run by O the startup scripts. Determining what those files and commands are is a perfecte# way to learn how UNIX really works.e  I One caveat: there are two exceptions to this general rule that I know of: J hosted implementations of UNIX like Microsoft's Interix and IBM's AIX willI require you to learn the underlying operating system's tools, rather thantI the UNIX ones, for system management. And an extensive enough shell, likenK the MacOS X layers above Darwin, may have its own approach to configurationa> management that isn't always visible from standard UNIX tools.  K But for any conventional UNIX system, including any Linux distribution I'vecL ever looked at (and I've looked at a fair few), the front ends can always beJ bypassed and replaced. Even for SCO, which has more than its fair share of creeping horrors.e   -- NO I've seen things you people can't imagine. Chimneysweeps on fire over the roofsNO of London. I've watched kite-strings glitter in the sun at Hyde Park Gate.  AllrL these things will be lost in time, like chalk-paintings in the rain.   `-_-'K Time for your nap.  | Peter da Silva | Har du kramat din varg, idag?    'U`    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 17:18:54 +0100eU From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <andrew_nospam.harrison_remove_this@sun#.com> < Subject: Re: Capellas: Linux, Windows Will 'Eviscerate' Unix0 Message-ID: <abgrtf$1ib$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   Bob Ceculski wrote:   Z > Ken Green <Ken.Green@kgcc.co.uk> wrote in message news:<3CD2DE32.D354B6B0@kgcc.co.uk>... >  >>John Vottero wrote:e >> >>9 >>>"Kenneth Farmer" <kfarmer@farmer.org> wrote in messagei< >>>news:VCtA8.31416$gd5.10719128@typhoon.southeast.rr.com... >>> M >>>>http://www.crn.com/Sections/BreakingNews/BreakingNews.asp?ArticleID=35060d >>>> >>>>N >>>I have to agree with Capellas, in fact, it seems obvious to me.  You can noB >>>longer sell Unix by claiming that it's the "Open/Standard" O/S.J >>>Linux/NetBSD/FreeBSD are the only true open/standard operating systems.M >>>Unix vendors have to start pointing at their proprietary extensions as thenJ >>>reason to buy their flavor of *nix.  The world is going to wind up withK >>>Windows, Linux and proprietary operation systems.  With OpenVMS, NSK ande< >>>Tru64/HP-UX,  HP rivals IBM as king of the proprietary OS >>>aN >>HP has just killed off it's own (profitable) proprietary (non Unix) OS, what >>chance) >>that VMS will still exist by year end ?  >> >> > H > it already has survived, and I would say that jstars, miltary, DOD, USI > gov use, Cerner, Pitts. Super Computing and the list goes on and on are K > the reason vms will survive ... MPE was 16 bit, neglected, no clustering,dJ > smaller user base, and quite frankly, not on the level of vms, or it tooJ > would have made it ... thank goodness some in our government and DOD areM > not idiots, or our defense would get hacked to death in the coming attacks,yK > for the depts. that use vms, they will survive, others I think will be in 
 > trouble ...h >   9 Your information about MPE is lets say a bit out of date.m   MPE has clusters  / http://www.hp.com/products1/mpeix/ha/index.html   = MPE runs on 64 bit HW suppoting up to 16 GB of RAM if running . on an HP N-4000 (Hard to do with a 16 bit OS).  > http://www.hp.com/products1/mpeix/operating/mpeix70/specs.html   It even supports Java 1.3.   Regardsn Andrew Harrison-   ------------------------------    Date: 10 May 2002 10:14:05 -0700( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)< Subject: Re: Capellas: Linux, Windows Will 'Eviscerate' Unix= Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0205100914.5b708bc7@posting.google.com>.  g peter@langstoeger.at (Peter LANGSTOEGER) wrote in message news:<m8QC8.1749$5a4.19388@news.chello.at>...uj > In article <d7791aa1.0205090634.3aee3af2@posting.google.com>, bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski) writes:H > >I have been on vms 17+ years now still waiting for my first os crash, > 	 > Try to:  >  > 1) Enable XFC  > 2) Install&Run PATHWORKS > 3) Install&Run DECnet/OSI  > 4) Install&Run UCX, > 5) any other kernel mode program with bugs > I > and the probability of VMS crashes raises about umpteen thousand if notn > million percent. > M > Yes, there is no better Opsys than VMS, but it definetely has seen crashes.l   not in my it world yet ...   1) do not need xfc 2) do not need pathworks 3) Install&Run DECnet/Phase IV 4) Install&Run TCPware$ 5) run kernel mode software w/o bugs  / and the probability of VMS crashes drops to 0%.n   ------------------------------    Date: 10 May 2002 10:18:26 -0700( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)< Subject: Re: Capellas: Linux, Windows Will 'Eviscerate' Unix= Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0205100918.7340f7dc@posting.google.com>f  j Volker Birk <bumens@dingens.org> wrote in message news:<3cdbb974$0$223$4d4ebb8e@businessnews.de.uu.net>...? > In comp.sys.hp.hpux Bob Ceculski <bob@instantwhip.com> wrote: ! > > any other platform other than ' > > OpenVMS is a joke ... it's GARBAGE!a > I > *plonk* - added to the score file with score 100 for opening an OS war.u >  > VB.-  = bob writes in comp.os.vms ... if google and Internet Exploder09 can't get the posts right, then they've got a problem ...C   ------------------------------   Date: 10 May 2002 16:58:26 GMT1 From: bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) < Subject: Re: Capellas: Linux, Windows Will 'Eviscerate' Unix+ Message-ID: <abgu7i$ejl$1@info.cs.uofs.edu>w  = In article <d7791aa1.0205091656.12105bae@posting.google.com>,n+  bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski) writes:@ |>B |> "unhackable" as declared by defcon9 and soon to be defcon10 ...@ |> YOU CAN NOT ROOT A PROPERLY CONFIGURED VMS SYSTEM, and defcon |> proves it ...    B Actually, all defcon proved was that VMS is so obscure that peopleB who spend all their freetime hacking on computers and talkign withC others about hacking on computers had never seen it before.  Primosg would have faired just as well.v   bill   -- tJ Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   k   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 09:50:21 +0200i= From: Arne =?iso-8859-1?Q?Vajh=F8j?= <arne.vajhoej@gtech.com>S) Subject: Re: CSWS / CSWB / MX Speculation ) Message-ID: <3CDB7BBD.CBF44A53@gtech.com>t   phn@icke-reklam.ipsec.nu wrote: - > Arne Vajhj <arne.vajhoej@gtech.com> wrote:t# > > david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk wrote:sS > >> No I was talking mail servers - just about every Unix system ships with a freed > >> mail server (Sendmail). > = > > Yep - but how many companies use that for corporate email, > H > Most does. Even if their corporate religion demands sExchange sendmail5 > is _the_ frontend to Internet ( by obvious reasons)   ? If you read th eentire thread, then you will see that the issuew: is the mail-servers directly accessed by email clients not centrail email hubs.  ; BTW, I think a lot of companyies had replaced sendmail witho5 something with less bufer overflows in than sendmail.d   Arne   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 10:25:48 +0200i= From: Arne =?iso-8859-1?Q?Vajh=F8j?= <arne.vajhoej@gtech.com>e) Subject: Re: CSWS / CSWB / MX Speculatione) Message-ID: <3CDB840C.5D0F40C7@gtech.com>t   david20@alpha1.mdx.ac.uk wrote:-k > In article <3CDAC4E9.A99E92C7@gtech.com>, Arne =?iso-8859-1?Q?Vajh=F8j?= <arne.vajhoej@gtech.com> writes:j" > >david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk wrote:S > >> No I was talking mail servers - just about every Unix system ships with a freec > >> mail server (Sendmail). > >>< > >Yep - but how many companies use that for corporate email > N > In the UK University sector I'd say probably 80% have sendmail somewhere andI > a fairly large percentage have it as their main server or their centralaP > mailhub. I know of very few UK Universities where Exchange is in more than one > or two departments.    And in 5 years ?  = > Now lets look at one of Digital/Compaq's competitors - SUN.eM > Andrew will probably correct me on this but in the heyday of ALL-IN-ONE and'; > IBM's PROFS SUN weren't really anywhere in Mail products.rJ > But a few years back they decided that was going to change. They started9 > creating their own Mail server products. Setup Iplanet. ( > Purchased Innosoft the makers of PMDF.Q > Sun obviously doesn't believe that the advent of Exchange means that they can't  > sell a Mail product. > % > So if Sun can do it why can't HPQ ?-  C 1)  As far as I know, then SUN bougth Innosoft to get the directoryr>     server, which is a key component in an enterprise solution
     today.  > 2)  Again as far sas I know, then SUN did not create their own@     mail product, they made an OEM version of PMDF. And that was*     available before they bougth Innosoft.  A And I do not really think the "SUN PMDF" (which I think is called,C SIMS) is a big commercial success. SUN do not really market it that.> much either. They have a solution for customers that want that particular kind of solution.  A SUN have no love for Microsoft, but I also think they have a veryo8 realistiv view of where the market for SUN products are.  D > >> >I doubt that MS has ever tried to convert Hotmail to Exchange. > >> >H > >> >They have changed converting the platform from Solaris to Windows.$ > >> >Without luck as far as I know. > >> >N > >> My understanding was that the aim of these conversions was to get hotmailR > >> running on Exchange. Its bad publicity for Microsoft when they can't run such' > >> an ISP on their own mail platform.h > >o	 > >Maybe.y > >o > >That is not how I heard it. > >s= > >And I can not see the point in using Exchange for an emailv* > >system that only has an web-interface ! >xN > Exchange is Microsoft's mail product - why should they use anything else forN > storing mail ? Not using it and instead using a Unix based mail system sendsB > a very bad message to customers ie Do as I say Don't do as I do.  A The requirements to supply online email + calendar + shitloads ofvD other MS proprietary things for 10-100000 users and the requirementsB to supply only web access to 25+ million users are very different.  A It is not very likely that the same software is the best solutiono for both cases.o  4 But maybe you are rigth and that is why they failed.  : It was my impression that this kind of solution was alwaysC a custom written application as frontend and an enterprise databasel4 as backend. To achieve peroformance and scalability.  > The rumours is that the Exchange storage is based on MS Access4 technology, which is not exactly "enterprise" level.  4 > >That is like having installed Oracle to keep your > >personal address book.. > P > Isn't Microsoft planning on doing that - I thought I'd heard they had plans to. > incorporate SQL SERVER in all their systems.   Yes - they have such plans.n   But:F   - MS SQLserver has a much smaller foot-print than Oracle. I recentlyE     installed an old version of Oracle (8i something)on NT4. I had to B     create >1GB of page-file to install the software and create an     empty database. >   - As I understand it, then it will be a somewhat scaled down     version.  D > >> As I said above this is getting very off topic for comp.os.vms. > >rA > >I find it very difficult to see why a discussion about whethergC > >there are a potential market for VMS mail-servers is off-topic !u > >d > L > Except that this has degenerated into a discussion of whether there is any0 > point in selling anything other than Exchange.  0 True, but that could also be leading somewhere !  ; If you were to try and make a mail-server a huge commerciall7 success, then full Exchange compatibility should be thec first step.u  9 But maybe it was bett to look at other areas. Like f.eks.e web-servers.  B MS Internet Explorer is also dominating in the web-browser marker,C but they have not been able to pollute the HTTP protocol. They have-@ been able to pollute the HTML format, but that is not a problem,: because you can serve MSIE specific HTML from VMS and Unix web-servers with no problems.x  : MS has a tie-in for developers in the FrontPage extensions: for upload of HTML pages and the ASP processing capability in IIS.s  8 But that war is not lost yet. The majority of the market is not requiring those.w  T > >> I believe that myself and others have demonstrated that there would be a marketR > >> for a VMS based mail solution (and indeed is - Since I already run such a VMSS > >> PMDF based POP,IMAP,Web accessable mail solution at Middlesex University as dop2 > >> many other PMDF users at other institutions). > >hC > >How many sites do you know that has started with such a solutioni > >within the last 5 years ? > > > > >How many sites do you know that has dropped such a solution > >within the last 5 years ? > G > I freely admit I have no figures and I'd suggest that neither do you.l   My numbers are 0 and 2 !  tB > >There are a market, but I think is a very small market and what  > >is worse a shrinking market ! > Q > Only if you believe as you obviously do that Exchange is the only mail solution  > users should and will want.   @ I have *NEVER* said anything about users should prefer Exchange.  < I have *SEVERAL* times said that users should prefer an open SMTP/IMAP4 solution.  9 But I have a very realistic/pessimistic (depending on thee' reader) of the market for mail-servers.o  9 I like VMS as much as the next guy, but we are not really 7 doing VMS a favour by pretending it would be a piece ofg4 cake to make it a success in the mail-server market.  7 If Open Office / StarOffice starts to take off, then we-8 have a new situation, but until then MS has the long end of the rope.   M > Since it is obvious there is no way I can convince you otherwise I will notD: > be responding to any more of your posts on this subject.  # I can not force you to do anything.s   Arne   ------------------------------    Date: 10 May 2002 02:40:29 -0700! From: soterro@yahoo.com (Soterro) 2 Subject: cxxlink shared libraries on Alpha and VAX= Message-ID: <d5440555.0205100140.57686b9f@posting.google.com>    Hello,  D There was once a program running on both Alpha and VAX. Now for thatB the VAX sources are missing the transfer vectors file, so I had toB recreate it, tjis would mean porting from Alpha to VMS :) With theD linker manual in one hand, Macro manual in the other and the eyes onB deja.com, I'm still missing something essential to get the linking phase to a success.   + This is from the TRANSITS.OPT of the Alpha::   IDENTIFICATION="V1.3  '99"i GSMATCH=lequal,1,1000e SYMBOL_VECTOR=(- ! Transits()# 	__CT__4TRANSITSXPKCPKC=PROCEDURE,-s
 ! ~Transits()p 	__DT__4TRANSITSXV=PROCEDURE,- ! GetTransit()! 	GETTRANSIT__K4HSSCXV=PROCEDURE,-8 ! AD() 	AD__K4HSSCXV=PROCEDURE,-b ).   and the TRANSITS_VAX.OPT   IDENTIFICATION="V1.0  98" !sD GSMATCH=lequal,1,1000 ! I played with the versions, but I guess that
 didnt hurt !  Cluster = TRANSFER y Cluster = READ_ONLY					 Cluster = READ_WRITE					  !y$ Collect = TRANSFER,TRANSITS_TRANSFER Collect = READ_ONLY,$CODEm Collect = READ_WRITE,$DATA  4 The TRANSITS_TANSFER.MAR I tried outta this is like:  - 	.TITLE		TRANSITS_TRANSFER - Transfer Vectorsh 	.IDENT		'V00-100'; 	.PSECT		TRANSITS_TRANSFER,CON,EXE,GBL,PIC,SHR,RD,REL,NOWRTe START: 	.TRANSFER	Transitse 	.MASK	Transits			 	JMP	L^Transits+2    ;	.TRANSFER	~Transits		e ;	.MASK	~Transitsu ;	JMP	L^~Transits+2s   	.TRANSFER	GetTransit		o 	.MASK	GetTransitr 	JMP	L^GetTransit+2e  
 	.TRANSFER	AD 	 	.MASK	AD  	JMP	L^AD+2e	 RESERVED:  	.BLKQ	64-<<RESERVED-START>/8>	n 	.ENDt  ? As you might see, I wasnt able to get a transfer vector for thelE destructor of the class, as '~' wasn't accepted as valid character (I?, said ok maybe I don't need that destructor).C So the files (here the file where the public interfaces are and thes* MAR file) were compiled with the commands:  \ cxx /optimize/include=([])/repository=(sys$disk:[.cxx_release])/assume=noheader_type_default TRANSITS_INTERFACE.CPP. library  []TRANSITS.OLB TRANSITS_INTERFACE.OBJ5 macro /object=TRANSITS_TRANSFER.OBJ TRANSITS_TRANSFERa- library  []TRANSITS.OLB TRANSITS_TRANSFER.OBJu    ...and then at the linking step:  - cxxlink /repository=(sys$disk:[.cxx_release])h /share=[]transits_shr.exei= []TRANSITS.OLB/lib/include=TRANSITS_TRANSFER,TRANSITS.OPT/optt   ...and this is what I get:  ' %LINK-W-NUDFSYMS, 17 undefined symbols:i %LINK-I-UDFSYM,    TRANSITSi %LINK-I-UDFSYM,    GETTRANSIT  %LINK-I-UDFSYM,    ADa ...e6 %LINK-W-USEUNDEF, undefined symbol TRANSITS referenced- 	in psect TRANSITS_TRANSFER offset %X00000000i! 	in module TRANSITS_TRANSFER file - $1$DIA1:[PRODUCTS.TRANSITS.NEW]TRANSITS.OLB;1tA %LINK-W-NOEPM, undefined entry mask of symbol TRANSITS referencedd! 	in module TRANSITS_TRANSFER filei- $1$DIA1:[PRODUCTS.TRANSITS.NEW]TRANSITS.OLB;1i6 %LINK-W-USEUNDEF, undefined symbol TRANSITS referenced- 	in psect TRANSITS_TRANSFER offset %X00000000p! 	in module TRANSITS_TRANSFER file - $1$DIA1:[PRODUCTS.TRANSITS.NEW]TRANSITS.OLB;1-6 %LINK-W-USEUNDEF, undefined symbol TRANSITS referenced- 	in psect TRANSITS_TRANSFER offset %X00000003a! 	in module TRANSITS_TRANSFER fileu- $1$DIA1:[PRODUCTS.TRANSITS.NEW]TRANSITS.OLB;1e< %LINK-W-STDISPIC, illegal non-relocatable displacement value- 	in psect TRANSITS_TRANSFER offset %X00000004t! 	in module TRANSITS_TRANSFER file-- $1$DIA1:[PRODUCTS.TRANSITS.NEW]TRANSITS.OLB;12  @ ...and here it goes the same for all the symbols in the transfer vector.iE I thought that the uppercasing of the MACRO is doing wrong, but there'D are also uppercase functions (see AD() ) which are not recognized (IC tried anyway to binary edit the obj and lowercase them, but nothingeE changed, they were reported unknown as lowercase now). I tried to geteD rid of the trasnfer vector, and declared them as UNIVERSAL=AD etc inF the OPT file, still nothing (uppercase lowercase same). I modified theE header of my MAR file, got rid of the ending, nothing changed. In the64 TANSITS_VAX.OPT I modified the first cluster line to? Cluster = TRANSFER,,,TRANSITS_TRANSFER as seen somewhere, stillc nothing.  A So my problem is: I cannot link my transfer vectors file with theyE others because all the symbols in it are undefined. The documentationoC is very simple, saying 'just name them and theyll work', so there'sr; surely a simple trick I miss. Could you point me which one?o  B I'm using DEC C++ V5.6-013 on OpenVMS VAX V6.2 (no idea what MACROD version), and I now that the files (including the *.MMS file where I@ took the commands from) for VAX were built in the VMS 5.x (x=6?) times.   Thanks,e Sorint  ? PS and I'd like to have also the destructor in the transfers...s   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 11:43:34 GMT,3 From: "Duane Smith" <Duane.Smith@nospam.compaq.com>r6 Subject: Re: cxxlink shared libraries on Alpha and VAX8 Message-ID: <GnOC8.7$bm7.286829@cacnews.cac.cpqcorp.net>  I You can see that in TRANSITS.OPT the actual entry points are the "mangledoI names" where names like __CT__4TRANSITSXPKCPKC represents the entry pointdK for "Transits".  The C++ compiler mangles the routine name to add parametert and type information.s  H Your macro file TRANSITS_TANSFER.MAR also needs to use the mangled namesD being generated by the VAX compiler (which may differ from the Alpha
 compiler).  K Each time you compile a program, Compaq C++ stores, in a data file, all thenL program's external symbols in their mangled and demangled forms. If the dataC file does not exist, the Compaq C++ compiler creates the data file. K Otherwise, the Compaq C++ compiler appends information to the existing datay file.0I By default the datafile is placed into a CXX$REPOSITORY subdirectory in aaJ file named cxx$demangler_db.  This is a simple text file that can be typedJ or edited.  In that file, you should see the mangled names on the left andI the routine signatures on the right.  It is the mangled names you want to< use in your macro vector file.  , Hope this helps (not bad for a manager, eh?)   Duane Smith     Compaq C/C++ Engineering Manager  . "Soterro" <soterro@yahoo.com> wrote in message7 news:d5440555.0205100140.57686b9f@posting.google.com...I > Hello, >CF > There was once a program running on both Alpha and VAX. Now for thatD > the VAX sources are missing the transfer vectors file, so I had toD > recreate it, tjis would mean porting from Alpha to VMS :) With theF > linker manual in one hand, Macro manual in the other and the eyes onD > deja.com, I'm still missing something essential to get the linking > phase to a success.s >l- > This is from the TRANSITS.OPT of the Alpha:u >  > IDENTIFICATION="V1.3  '99"a > GSMATCH=lequal,1,1000- > SYMBOL_VECTOR=(- > ! Transits()$ > __CT__4TRANSITSXPKCPKC=PROCEDURE,- > ! ~Transits()B > __DT__4TRANSITSXV=PROCEDURE,-a > ! GetTransit()" > GETTRANSIT__K4HSSCXV=PROCEDURE,- > ! AD() > AD__K4HSSCXV=PROCEDURE,- > )e >m > and the TRANSITS_VAX.OPT >n > IDENTIFICATION="V1.0  98" > !9F > GSMATCH=lequal,1,1000 ! I played with the versions, but I guess that > didnt hurt > !n > Cluster = TRANSFER > Cluster = READ_ONLYh > Cluster = READ_WRITE > !k& > Collect = TRANSFER,TRANSITS_TRANSFER > Collect = READ_ONLY,$CODEo > Collect = READ_WRITE,$DATA > 6 > The TRANSITS_TANSFER.MAR I tried outta this is like: >e- > .TITLE TRANSITS_TRANSFER - Transfer Vectors  > .IDENT 'V00-100'; > .PSECT TRANSITS_TRANSFER,CON,EXE,GBL,PIC,SHR,RD,REL,NOWRT  > START: > .TRANSFER Transits > .MASK Transits > JMP L^Transits+2 >: > ; .TRANSFER ~Transitsd > ; .MASK ~Transits  > ; JMP L^~Transits+27 >j > .TRANSFER GetTransit > .MASK GetTransit > JMP L^GetTransit+2 >s > .TRANSFER AD
 > .MASK AD > JMP L^AD+2 > RESERVED:  > .BLKQ 64-<<RESERVED-START>/8>d > .END >dA > As you might see, I wasnt able to get a transfer vector for theCG > destructor of the class, as '~' wasn't accepted as valid character (Ic. > said ok maybe I don't need that destructor).E > So the files (here the file where the public interfaces are and thet, > MAR file) were compiled with the commands: >  > cxx L /optimize/include=([])/repository=(sys$disk:[.cxx_release])/assume=noheader_ type_default > TRANSITS_INTERFACE.CPP0 > library  []TRANSITS.OLB TRANSITS_INTERFACE.OBJ7 > macro /object=TRANSITS_TRANSFER.OBJ TRANSITS_TRANSFERt/ > library  []TRANSITS.OLB TRANSITS_TRANSFER.OBJd >s" > ...and then at the linking step: >-/ > cxxlink /repository=(sys$disk:[.cxx_release])  > /share=[]transits_shr.exe-? > []TRANSITS.OLB/lib/include=TRANSITS_TRANSFER,TRANSITS.OPT/optB >M > ...and this is what I get: >7) > %LINK-W-NUDFSYMS, 17 undefined symbols:. > %LINK-I-UDFSYM,    TRANSITS  > %LINK-I-UDFSYM,    GETTRANSIT  > %LINK-I-UDFSYM,    AD. > ...e8 > %LINK-W-USEUNDEF, undefined symbol TRANSITS referenced. > in psect TRANSITS_TRANSFER offset %X00000000" > in module TRANSITS_TRANSFER file/ > $1$DIA1:[PRODUCTS.TRANSITS.NEW]TRANSITS.OLB;1 C > %LINK-W-NOEPM, undefined entry mask of symbol TRANSITS referenceda" > in module TRANSITS_TRANSFER file/ > $1$DIA1:[PRODUCTS.TRANSITS.NEW]TRANSITS.OLB;1t8 > %LINK-W-USEUNDEF, undefined symbol TRANSITS referenced. > in psect TRANSITS_TRANSFER offset %X00000000" > in module TRANSITS_TRANSFER file/ > $1$DIA1:[PRODUCTS.TRANSITS.NEW]TRANSITS.OLB;1e8 > %LINK-W-USEUNDEF, undefined symbol TRANSITS referenced. > in psect TRANSITS_TRANSFER offset %X00000003" > in module TRANSITS_TRANSFER file/ > $1$DIA1:[PRODUCTS.TRANSITS.NEW]TRANSITS.OLB;1h> > %LINK-W-STDISPIC, illegal non-relocatable displacement value. > in psect TRANSITS_TRANSFER offset %X00000004" > in module TRANSITS_TRANSFER file/ > $1$DIA1:[PRODUCTS.TRANSITS.NEW]TRANSITS.OLB;1a >FB > ...and here it goes the same for all the symbols in the transfer	 > vector.>G > I thought that the uppercasing of the MACRO is doing wrong, but thereaF > are also uppercase functions (see AD() ) which are not recognized (IE > tried anyway to binary edit the obj and lowercase them, but nothing G > changed, they were reported unknown as lowercase now). I tried to get F > rid of the trasnfer vector, and declared them as UNIVERSAL=AD etc inH > the OPT file, still nothing (uppercase lowercase same). I modified theG > header of my MAR file, got rid of the ending, nothing changed. In thec6 > TANSITS_VAX.OPT I modified the first cluster line toA > Cluster = TRANSFER,,,TRANSITS_TRANSFER as seen somewhere, still'
 > nothing. >rC > So my problem is: I cannot link my transfer vectors file with theiG > others because all the symbols in it are undefined. The documentationtE > is very simple, saying 'just name them and theyll work', so there's = > surely a simple trick I miss. Could you point me which one?' > D > I'm using DEC C++ V5.6-013 on OpenVMS VAX V6.2 (no idea what MACROF > version), and I now that the files (including the *.MMS file where IB > took the commands from) for VAX were built in the VMS 5.x (x=6?) > times. >g	 > Thanks,s > Sorin, >eA > PS and I'd like to have also the destructor in the transfers...v   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 07:14:50 -0700 , From: "James Gessling" <jgessling@yahoo.com>6 Subject: Re: cxxlink shared libraries on Alpha and VAX4 Message-ID: <abgkks$i6snk$1@ID-46415.news.dfncis.de>  I There are example files in sys$common:[syshlp.examples.cxx].  See section  3.5 inG the "Using Compaq C++ manual"  (hope you've got it)  Look for the filesw namedr sw*.*.   Jimr   ------------------------------    Date: 10 May 2002 06:28:43 -0700& From: Van_heins@excite.com (Van Heins) Subject: Re: DCL Questione= Message-ID: <93df49a8.0205100528.59bb975f@posting.google.com>s  @ If you actually know what the logicals names will be, as in your> example of DATABASE_1 and DATABASE_2 you can just setup a loopB incrementing the number and use the lexical f$trnlnm to see if the logicals is defined:  	   $ loop:y   $   count = count + 1t9   $   if f$trnlnm("database_''count'") .nes. "" then ... s  	 Van Heinsf  X ualski <ualski@earthlink.net> wrote in message news:<3CDB060A.DE2A5EF7@earthlink.net>...H > When you have read in a line from your temporary file (into the symbol > "LINE"), try this: > I > $ NAME = F$ELEMENT(0," ",F$EDIT(F$ELEMENT(0,"=",LINE),"TRIM,COMPRESS"))s > 9 > If F$LENGTH(NAME) .NE. 0, then you have a logical name.  >  > -- Aaron Sliwinski >  >  > Jon wrote: > > J > > Ok, I've got a DCL question that has stumped me for a while.  I've gotE > > a piece of code that is attempting to located certain data on themE > > system (a code specific database) which could exist on any of the I > > mounted volumes.  I need to track to size of the database.  We've gotfJ > > a logical that points to the location of the database.  It's simple toH > > get that specific one, but there can be "extensions" to the database6 > > which would create other logicals.  As an example: > >  > > $ sho log database*e > >  > > (LNM$PROCESS_TABLE)  > >  > > (LNM$JOB_80D13780) > >  > > (LNM$GROUP_000001) > >  > > (LNM$SYSTEM_TABLE) > >  > >   "DATABASE" = "$1$DKA0:"I! > >   "DATABASE_1" = "$1$DKA100:"o! > >   "DATABASE_2" = "$1$DKA200:"h > >  > > (LNM$SYSCLUSTER_TABLE) > >  > > (DECW$LOGICAL_NAMES) > > $s > > E > > The problem lies in that the primary logical is there (database),iC > > however, the extensions may or may not be there (depends on the-? > > structuring of the data).  I've done some code where I do a E > > "sho log database*/out=<Filename>" and attempted to parse out thesH > > locations, but the quotes are causing me a problem.  Anyone have any= > > suggestions as to the best way to get this info?  Thanks!b   ------------------------------    Date: 10 May 2002 08:47:18 -0700, From: srp336@getcoactive.com (Steve Pfister)+ Subject: Encompass US associate membership?r= Message-ID: <45126e60.0205100747.2de806f9@posting.google.com>r  E Is there still an associate membership option to Encompass US? I keepmC sending in applications via the online form over the past week, butpC all I get is an email response with my form in it. There's an emailoA address for membership questions, but no response there either...r   Thanks!m   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 11:00:31 -0500t1 From: "Dave Gudewicz" <david.gudewicz@abbott.com>t/ Subject: Re: Encompass US associate membership?s1 Message-ID: <abgqvf$ho8$1@fizban.pprd.abbott.com>x  K AFAIK, there is still an Associate Membership for Encompass.  What were youP@ expecting back from Encompass besides what you already received?   -- Dave...S  6 If you pick up a starving dog and make him prosperous,, he will not bite you.  This is the principle# difference between a dog and a man.t -----Mark Twainw  9 "Steve Pfister" <srp336@getcoactive.com> wrote in messagee7 news:45126e60.0205100747.2de806f9@posting.google.com...OG > Is there still an associate membership option to Encompass US? I keepmE > sending in applications via the online form over the past week, butoE > all I get is an email response with my form in it. There's an emailyC > address for membership questions, but no response there either...o >i	 > Thanks!i   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 16:05:18 GMTe( From: Alder <PGDEHMKOKIMD@spammotel.com>/ Subject: Re: Encompass US associate membership?k, Message-ID: <3CDBEFBD.9010701@spammotel.com>   Dave Gudewicz wrote:  M > AFAIK, there is still an Associate Membership for Encompass.  What were youoB > expecting back from Encompass besides what you already received? >  > --	 > Dave...f > 8 > If you pick up a starving dog and make him prosperous,. > he will not bite you.  This is the principle% > difference between a dog and a man.i > -----Mark Twain  > ; > "Steve Pfister" <srp336@getcoactive.com> wrote in messaget9 > news:45126e60.0205100747.2de806f9@posting.google.com...i > G >>Is there still an associate membership option to Encompass US? I keepeE >>sending in applications via the online form over the past week, butnE >>all I get is an email response with my form in it. There's an emailiC >>address for membership questions, but no response there either...  >>	 >>Thanks!o >> >  >   E I signed on last week as an Associate member and received a response gG with a member ID number on the first line.  Sounds like they're having 9A trouble with the site, or something connected with the HP merger.    Alder    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 07:24:36 +0100c1 From: Steve Reece <SYSTEM@ipl.demon.co.nospam.uk>o) Subject: Re: Fearless VMS Prognostication 6 Message-ID: <3CDB75B3.5891DFE2@ipl.demon.co.nospam.uk>  E I think the description of younger IT types is slightly incorrect.  IiF know of one person locally that teaches Java to military college types- and didn't know that VMS was still available.g   Steve.     David J. Dachtera wrote: >  > Dean Woodward wrote: > >t > > "Terry C. Shannon" wrote:1 > > >9O > > > Imagine what it would be like if more prospective new customers knew thatK > > > the OS existed!s
 > >         ^4 > >       StillU > > K > > Insert as marked above.  As part of a (non IT) class I teach, I mentionC@ > > that I'm a "data geek" to about 50 people or so every month.K > > Invariably, some of them come up and we talk shop.  I typically get onet > > of two reactions:e > >RA > > From older IT types: "I didn't know VMS was still available."  > >cK > > From younger IT types:  "I'd heard of VMS, but didn't know it was stillI > > available."R > >S3 > > The rumors of VMS' death have been exaggerated.T > H > I like the sig of a poster in the group which reads to the effect that; > rumors of the death of VMS have been greatly exacerbated.T > G > The comments you cite from the younger IT types seem to support that.  >  > -- > David J. Dachteraa > dba DJE SystemsF > http://www.djesys.com/ > * > Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page:! > http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/V   ------------------------------    Date: 10 May 2002 19:32:02 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>6 Subject: Re: Forced migration to HPHUX - Storm Warning- Message-ID: <87helgfdcd.fsf@prep.synonet.com>   / djweath@attglobal.net (Dave Weatherall) writes:   D > Now I'm getting confused (no I haven't read the roadmap - too busy& > working - today's a public holiday).   ...s  A > Q2. Is this conversion from endian-ness really so simple as allE) > these statements about migration imply?R  D Really Dave. It is dirt easy, you call in you IT manager and say "WeE are changing over to the new Foo-fucked69 systems. I want you to haves it all done by Monday."r  7 He then goes off and enjoyes his holliday and week-end.]   -- S< Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.m@                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 10:08:07 -0500N1 From: "Dave Gudewicz" <david.gudewicz@abbott.com>e6 Subject: Re: Forced migration to HPHUX - Storm Warning1 Message-ID: <abgnt5$h8b$1@fizban.pprd.abbott.com>W  G I did not see or read about a VMS EOL this week.  I also didn't see VMSiJ getting top billing either, nor did I expect to.  I will also admit that I8 was disappointed in the billing VMS did get, so.........  K Send your cards and letters to the approprite powers that be at the new h-p . stating your opinion on this important matter.   -- Dave...:  6 If you pick up a starving dog and make him prosperous,, he will not bite you.  This is the principle# difference between a dog and a man.0 -----Mark Twaine  : "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message& news:3CDB103A.B714B479@videotron.ca... > McEagle wrote: > >iA > > I agree with John and will do the same IF hp closes down VMS.R >s > There lies the problem.r >lL > Do you wait for an official statement from HP that VMS is EOLed, and untilG > then continue to grow your VMS applications, or do you try to see thee trendeG > and decide that while there is no urgent need to migrate OFF VMS, you  shoudlL > choose a new platform to build your new applicatios on , and later migrate thes7 > remaining legacy apps from VMS to that new platform ?h   ------------------------------    Date: 10 May 2002 09:08:21 -0000= From: Doc.Cypher <Use-Author-Supplied-Address-Header@[127.1]>e= Subject: Re: Gartner rides again (was Re: HP Product Roadmap)n5 Message-ID: <20020510090821.6703.qmail@gacracker.org>l  8 On 9 May 2002, bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski) wrote:" >Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy? ><andrew_nospam.harrison_remove_this@sun#.com> wrote in messageo- >news:<abe7te$90e$2@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>...6 >> Bob Ceculski wrote: >> i= >> > Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) wrote in messageh4 >> > news:<7O2QDCQqWuZC@eisner.encompasserve.org>... >> > i >> >>hI >> >>People should use whatever computer gear does their job, and nothingo! >> >>less.  That means VMS is notsO >> >>suitable for some tasks and is suitable for others.  It also means Windows $ >> >>is not suitable for some tasks. >> >>r >> > c) >> > windoze isn't suitable for any task!d >> > e >> - >> G2 >> What are you using to post your articles from ? >>  
 >> Regards >> Andrew Harrison >r? >I would much rather be using vms, and when the mozilla browserT5 >becomes stable, that just may be the alternative to T >Internet Exploder!   I There are a number of newsreaders available for VMS, even using a WindowslE newsreader would be a vast improvement over accessing comp.os.vms viaaH Google. You could even subscribe to the Info-VAX mailing list and access the group from VMS in that way.m  K Anyway, don't you feel foolish saying "windoze isn't suitable for any task"a@ then having to admit you use it to participate in the newsgroup?     Doc. -- l6 The bigger the humbug, the better people will like it.K ~ Phineas Taylor Barnum.                             https://vmsbox.cjb.netf   ------------------------------    Date: 10 May 2002 07:58:48 -0600- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) = Subject: Re: Gartner rides again (was Re: HP Product Roadmap)l3 Message-ID: <kY9w4g89UB0Y@eisner.encompasserve.org>h  h In article <d7791aa1.0205091718.4e93061e@posting.google.com>, bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski) writes:  @ > I would much rather be using vms, and when the mozilla browser6 > becomes stable, that just may be the alternative to  > Internet Exploder! 5  5    So join Encompasserve, get on EISNER, and use VMS.    ------------------------------    Date: 10 May 2002 08:00:16 -0700( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)= Subject: Re: Gartner rides again (was Re: HP Product Roadmap)l= Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0205100700.773abe49@posting.google.com>a  z Doc.Cypher <Use-Author-Supplied-Address-Header@[127.1]> wrote in message news:<20020510090821.6703.qmail@gacracker.org>...  be the alternative to A > >Internet Exploder!  > K > There are a number of newsreaders available for VMS, even using a Windows-G > newsreader would be a vast improvement over accessing comp.os.vms via J > Google. You could even subscribe to the Info-VAX mailing list and access! > the group from VMS in that way.V  @ why do I need a newsreader when I can use Internet Exploder thru@ Google.com?  Any why would posting thru i.e./google post to more newsgroups than comp.vms?t   M > Anyway, don't you feel foolish saying "windoze isn't suitable for any task"DB > then having to admit you use it to participate in the newsgroup? >  > Doc.   No!o   ------------------------------  + Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 17:20:10 +0100 (MET)k9 From: Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>I= Subject: Re: Gartner rides again (was Re: HP Product Roadmap)R; Message-ID: <01KHKJSJ85FE984VLY@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>s  B > why do I need a newsreader when I can use Internet Exploder thru > Google.com?  a  H Perhaps to avoid the Microsoft products which you criticise elsewhere?  ' Also, a newsreader is more comfortable.   5 > Any why would posting thru i.e./google post to more  > newsgroups than comp.vms?   : Standard newsgroup stuff: followups default to all groups.   ------------------------------    Date: 10 May 2002 16:28:16 -0000= From: Doc.Cypher <Use-Author-Supplied-Address-Header@[127.1]>f= Subject: Re: Gartner rides again (was Re: HP Product Roadmap)c6 Message-ID: <20020510162816.20744.qmail@gacracker.org>  9 On 10 May 2002, bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski) wrote: I >Doc.Cypher <Use-Author-Supplied-Address-Header@[127.1]> wrote in messageI2 >news:<20020510090821.6703.qmail@gacracker.org>... > be the alternative to  >> >Internet Exploder! I >> AL >> There are a number of newsreaders available for VMS, even using a WindowsH >> newsreader would be a vast improvement over accessing comp.os.vms viaK >> Google. You could even subscribe to the Info-VAX mailing list and access # >> the group from VMS in that way. f >dA >why do I need a newsreader when I can use Internet Exploder thruT >Google.com?  J Because you would be able to do it on VMS then not make yourself look like@ a fool for slagging off Windows then having to admit you use it?  4 >Any why would posting thru i.e./google post to more >newsgroups than comp.vms?  > Because it tried to emulate the functionality of a newsreader?  mN >> Anyway, don't you feel foolish saying "windoze isn't suitable for any task"C >> then having to admit you use it to participate in the newsgroup?T >> T >> Doc.R >f >No!   Then you're a hypocrite.     Doc. -- e6 The bigger the humbug, the better people will like it.K ~ Phineas Taylor Barnum.                             https://vmsbox.cjb.netN   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 09:55:26 -0400U1 From: "Mark D. Jilson" <jilly@clarityconnect.com>C& Subject: Re: Help with ?setparams.dat?2 Message-ID: <3CDBD14E.D31E08EC@clarityconnect.com>  G This is incorrect.  The file that gets read at boot time for the systemSH parameters is {VAX|ALPHA}VMSSYS.PAR and lives in [SYSn.SYSEXE].  To makeC a copy of these so that you can use them if needed do the followings  ) $ SET DEFAULT SYS$SYSDEVICE:[SYSn.SYSEXE]e $ MCR SYSGEN USE CURRENTh WRITE {yourfilename}.PAR EXIT  F Now if you need to use them you would execute a conversational boot to& get to the SYSBOOT> prompt and do this SYSBOOT> USE {yourfilename}.PARt
 SYSBOOT> CONTt  G SETPARAMS.DAT is generated during the GENPARAMS phase of AUTOGEN and is @ used in the SETPARAMS phase to modify the system parameter file.   "Lucas, Edward A (SAIC)" wrote:h > 6 > Can someone please provide me the assistance I need. > M > If I am not mistaken setparams.dat is the file that is used when the systemo > boots and needs to set prams. H > Now, If my system crash's (I hope not) and the system goes to boot andM > cannot boot because of a parameter error, how do I rename the file back andn > use the previous pram file.h >  > Edward A. Lucasl" > Sr. VAX/VMS System Administrator > SAIC > Phone:  (216) 525-7492 > Email:   Lucaea@bp.com   -- oC Jilly	- Working from Home in the Chemung River Valley - Waverly, NY 0 	- jilly@clarityconnect.com			- Brett Bodine fan+ 	- Mark.Jilson@HP.com				- since 1975 or so. 	- http://www.jilly.baka.com   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 14:56:22 GMT-' From: Rick Dyson <Rick-Dyson@UIowa.EDU>,+ Subject: High Water Concurrent Users Count?s) Message-ID: <3CDBDF96.4EAAAA5A@UIowa.EDU>c  N Is there any counter that can be grabbed via lexical or program API that wouldO hold the highest number of concurrent users on an OpenVMS node or cluster since  the last reboot?  Or ever?  N Or do I have to write something to sniff the current value and compare it with a saved max?  M If I have to do the above, can anyone suggest a quick and easy DCL method to iN grab the current number of users?  I can only think/find "Show Users" and thenK parse the output to grab the string from the header.  Where does it get thes value?   Rick   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 16:53:23 GMTr From: system@SendSpamHere.ORG / Subject: Re: High Water Concurrent Users Count?e0 Message-ID: <00A0DBAA.1811193E@SendSpamHere.ORG>  S In article <3CDBDF96.4EAAAA5A@UIowa.EDU>, Rick Dyson <Rick-Dyson@UIowa.EDU> writes:rO >Is there any counter that can be grabbed via lexical or program API that woulduP >hold the highest number of concurrent users on an OpenVMS node or cluster since >the last reboot?  Or ever?0 >"O >Or do I have to write something to sniff the current value and compare it with 
 >a saved max?  >iN >If I have to do the above, can anyone suggest a quick and easy DCL method to O >grab the current number of users?  I can only think/find "Show Users" and then L >parse the output to grab the string from the header.  Where does it get the >value?e >h >Rickl    L Do you want the number of users or interactive jobs.  If, for example, I logK into my system 100 times using the SYSTEM account, there is only 1 user and  100 interactive jobs.  h --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COMe            l5   "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?"     ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 13:15:31 -0400O- From: "Richard D. Piccard" <piccard@ohio.edu> / Subject: Re: High Water Concurrent Users Count?"( Message-ID: <3CDC002A.4089CC5D@ohio.edu>  , It may well be easier to parse the output of   $ SET LOGINS/INTERACTIVE   for example:  J %SET-I-INTSET, login interactive limit = 64, current interactive value = 5  
 							RDP     system@SendSpamHere.ORG wrote: > U > In article <3CDBDF96.4EAAAA5A@UIowa.EDU>, Rick Dyson <Rick-Dyson@UIowa.EDU> writes:gQ > >Is there any counter that can be grabbed via lexical or program API that wouldqR > >hold the highest number of concurrent users on an OpenVMS node or cluster since > >the last reboot?  Or ever?  > >-Q > >Or do I have to write something to sniff the current value and compare it withi > >a saved max?s > > O > >If I have to do the above, can anyone suggest a quick and easy DCL method toeQ > >grab the current number of users?  I can only think/find "Show Users" and thenmN > >parse the output to grab the string from the header.  Where does it get the	 > >value?  > >  > >Ricki > N > Do you want the number of users or interactive jobs.  If, for example, I logM > into my system 100 times using the SYSTEM account, there is only 1 user and  > 100 interactive jobs.1 > --Q > VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COMs > 6 >   "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?"   -- bB ==================================================================B Dick Piccard                           Academic Technology ManagerB piccard@ohio.edu                                 Computer ServicesB http://oak.cats.ohiou.edu/~piccard/                Ohio University   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 10:55:35 +0200t5 From: Martin Knoblauch <Martin.Knoblauch@teraport.de>1+ Subject: Re: HP is taking over really fast!.5 Message-ID: <abg1u7$hm40i$2@ID-115181.news.dfncis.de>E   Doc.Cypher wrote:   F > On Tue, 07 May 2002, "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> > wrote:F >>Yes.  Except in some cases where there are overlapping names in bothJ >>companies, which is always problematic.  You can send me mail at both hp" >>and compaq - both will reach me. > F > But I see that you still use a DEC email address here. Bypassing the > corporate servers? :-) >  >  > Doc.  D  it will be interesting to see whether HP manages to get rid of the J "dec.com" stuff. Compaq never managed. Not that I did complain when I was L working there. The "dec.com" gateways and proxies were much better and - at > least for some time - had no (or only weak) content filtering.   Martin -- pB ------------------------------------------------------------------B Martin Knoblauch         |    email:  Martin.Knoblauch@TeraPort.de7 TeraPort GmbH            |    Phone:  +49-89-510857-30967 C+ITS                    |    Fax:    +49-89-510857-111t5 http://www.teraport.de   |    Mobile: +49-170-4904759U   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 09:43:54 +0100k From: Roy Omond <Roy@Omond.net>e Subject: Re: HP Product Roadmaps) Message-ID: <3CDB884A.5B80824F@Omond.net>o   Brian Tillman wrote:  A > >"Godotium" !  I like it :-)  Is this the first mention of it ?a > >Also, how is it pronounced ?  >p( > Godot more or less rhymes with baudot.  4 Yes, I am perfectly aware how "Godot" is pronounced.. That was the basis for my rhetorical question.  	 Roy Omond  Blue Bubble Ltd.   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 13:34:30 GMTc3 From: Jeff Coffield <Jeffrey@DigitalSynergyInc.com>l Subject: Re: HP Product Roadmap-5 Message-ID: <3CDBCC6C.29F2B132@DigitalSynergyInc.com>n   "Terry C. Shannon" wrote:I  > > "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com> wrote in message7 > news:1kZB8.95042$WV1.28883107@typhoon.ne.ipsvc.net...  > >V> > > "Stuart, Ed" <Ed.Stuart@austinenergy.com> wrote in message > > N > news:92EFB80E551BD511B39500D0B7B0CDCC0642C3D7@ohms.electric.ci.austin.tx.us. > > ..- > > > The HP Product Roadmap can be found at:m: > > > http://www.hp.com/hpinfo/newsroom/press/07may02b.htm > > >t5 > > > There is one and only one reference to OpenVMS.n > >)? > > Yep. No change to committed roadmap, products, or IPF port.0 > >lN > > Whether HPQ plans to get stabilize the base and (try to) minimize customerM > > and ISV attrition, or whether the firm plans to try to grow the business,i > > remains to be seen.v > >l > N > Perhaps some positively-worded (at this point NOBODY in HPQ wants to receiveJ > any more bashing, deserved or not) suggestions and statements of support! > might help. They couldn't hurt.o >rL > Wouldn't hurt to highlight Sue S as a valuable asset to the VMS franchise, > either...y  # To whom should the message be sent?c   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 13:54:31 GMT.1 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com>. Subject: Re: HP Product Roadmap , Message-ID: <riQC8.16231$RR3.8347@sccrnsc02>  @ "Jeff Coffield" <Jeffrey@DigitalSynergyInc.com> wrote in message/ news:3CDBCC6C.29F2B132@DigitalSynergyInc.com...e > "Terry C. Shannon" wrote:i >t@ > > "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com> wrote in message9 > > news:1kZB8.95042$WV1.28883107@typhoon.ne.ipsvc.net...s > > > @ > > > "Stuart, Ed" <Ed.Stuart@austinenergy.com> wrote in message > > >k > > L news:92EFB80E551BD511B39500D0B7B0CDCC0642C3D7@ohms.electric.ci.austin.tx.us. > > > ../ > > > > The HP Product Roadmap can be found at:i< > > > > http://www.hp.com/hpinfo/newsroom/press/07may02b.htm > > > >a7 > > > > There is one and only one reference to OpenVMS.t > > >wA > > > Yep. No change to committed roadmap, products, or IPF port.e > > >hG > > > Whether HPQ plans to get stabilize the base and (try to) minimize  customerE > > > and ISV attrition, or whether the firm plans to try to grow the 	 business,  > > > remains to be seen.  > > >s > >tH > > Perhaps some positively-worded (at this point NOBODY in HPQ wants to receiveoL > > any more bashing, deserved or not) suggestions and statements of support# > > might help. They couldn't hurt.  > >NC > > Wouldn't hurt to highlight Sue S as a valuable asset to the VMSr
 franchise,
 > > either...o >W% > To whom should the message be sent?n  J I would try Mark.Gorham@hp.com as he is still in charge of the best server OS on the planet.e  G And Richard.Marcello@hp.com as he is in charge of the what is still thea fastest processor on the planet   7 And Scott.Stallard@hp.com as he is in the catbird seat.a  I Remember, the marching orders inside HPQ are customer retention, customeraI retention, and customer retention. It will be some number of years beforeoL IPF is ready to supplant Alpha, and these folks know it. The VMS port to IPFL lives on. Exhorting these folks to broaden the VMS market and to solicit newH customers/ISVs would IMHO be a good thing. But that's just my opinion...   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 09:44:50 -0500 / From: "Stuart, Ed" <Ed.Stuart@austinenergy.com>  Subject: RE: HP Product Roadmap T Message-ID: <92EFB80E551BD511B39500D0B7B0CDCC0642C3FB@ohms.electric.ci.austin.tx.us>  1 Suggestions that another advocate posted earlier:r   michael.capellas@hp.coma peter.blackmore@hp.com richard.marcello@hp.com  mark.gorham@hp.com scott.stallard@hp.comr   -->Ed E **Please apply a generous amount of all the usual disclaimers here.**-     > -----Original Message-----< > From: Jeff Coffield [mailto:Jeffrey@DigitalSynergyInc.com]$ > Sent: Friday, May 10, 2002 8:35 AM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com ! > Subject: Re: HP Product RoadmapD >  >  > "Terry C. Shannon" wrote:r > @ > > "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com> wrote in message9 > > news:1kZB8.95042$WV1.28883107@typhoon.ne.ipsvc.net...r > > >h@ > > > "Stuart, Ed" <Ed.Stuart@austinenergy.com> wrote in message > > >> > > @ > news:92EFB80E551BD511B39500D0B7B0CDCC0642C3D7@ohms.electric.ci
 austin.tx.us.i > > ..- > > > The HP Product Roadmap can be found at:e: > > > http://www.hp.com/hpinfo/newsroom/press/07may02b.htm > > >g5 > > > There is one and only one reference to OpenVMS.s > >i? > > Yep. No change to committed roadmap, products, or IPF port.  > >sE > > Whether HPQ plans to get stabilize the base and (try to) minimize  customerC > > and ISV attrition, or whether the firm plans to try to grow the 	 business,s > > remains to be seen.> > >> >gF > Perhaps some positively-worded (at this point NOBODY in HPQ wants to receiveiJ > any more bashing, deserved or not) suggestions and statements of support! > might help. They couldn't hurt.r > L > Wouldn't hurt to highlight Sue S as a valuable asset to the VMS franchise, > either...t  # To whom should the message be sent?e   ------------------------------    Date: 10 May 2002 14:53:14 -0000= From: Doc.Cypher <Use-Author-Supplied-Address-Header@[127.1]>h Subject: RE: HP Product Roadmapo6 Message-ID: <20020510145314.17837.qmail@gacracker.org>  E On Fri, 10 May 2002, "Stuart, Ed" <Ed.Stuart@austinenergy.com> wrote: 2 >Suggestions that another advocate posted earlier: >  >michael.capellas<at>hp.coms >peter.blackmore<at>hp.com >richard.marcello<at>hp.com0 >mark.gorham<at>hp.com >scott.stallard<at>hp.comv  K People might at least have the courtesy to munge these email addresses. YoumG may not like how they've handled things, but it isn't fair to make them<C targets for spamming by publishing their email addresses on Usenet.      Doc. -- w6 The bigger the humbug, the better people will like it.K ~ Phineas Taylor Barnum.                             https://vmsbox.cjb.net    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 08:28:00 -0700S' From: David Mathog <mathog@caltech.edu>a Subject: Re: HP Product Roadmapr+ Message-ID: <3CDBE700.2821F058@caltech.edu>c   "Terry C. Shannon" wrote:a  F > You will know when I've thrown in the towel... I'll pull the plug onH > SKwhatever, because I'll be damned if I'll do SKuSoftandIntel. There's+ > enough trade press around to do that! ;-}q  : But Terry, how else can HPQ reduce their R&D to the extent7 that they have stated without becoming a de facto whiteaE box vendor?  More than half of that company is uSoftandIntel already.e> The small amount they've allocated for R&D would seem adequate; to cover the printer and storage divisions, with some small 8 pittance for the Enterprise sector.  It certainly leaves  nothing substantial for the PCs.  < To avoid becoming SKuSoftandIntel SKHPC would have to ignore? HPQ PC operations - even though it's half the company. And wereh= you really planning a large amount of coverage of the printero> division?  Probably not, since most of your readers are likely@ not all that interested in the latest ink developments.  So keepB covering the enterprise bits in depth no matter who owns them. AndC in any case the big story over the next year and a half is probablyRD going to be the massive train wreck which is the Godotium fiasco. AtE this point I'd bet that we're more likely to see HPQ selling Opterons C than Itaniums one year from now.  And what a hash that will make of ! their corporate long range plans.s   Regards,   David Mathog mathog@caltech.edu   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 16:05:18 GMTt1 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com>o Subject: Re: HP Product Roadmap-, Message-ID: <2dSC8.18103$WR1.6908@sccrnsc01>  J All worthwhile suggestions. Just don't expect a massive response early on,2 as these folks are pretty overwhelmed right now...  : "Stuart, Ed" <Ed.Stuart@austinenergy.com> wrote in messageL news:92EFB80E551BD511B39500D0B7B0CDCC0642C3FB@ohms.electric.ci.austin.tx.us. ..3 > Suggestions that another advocate posted earlier:0 >1 > michael.capellas@hp.comr > peter.blackmore@hp.com > richard.marcello@hp.como > mark.gorham@hp.com > scott.stallard@hp.come >a > -->EdfG > **Please apply a generous amount of all the usual disclaimers here.**v >a >s > > -----Original Message-----> > > From: Jeff Coffield [mailto:Jeffrey@DigitalSynergyInc.com]& > > Sent: Friday, May 10, 2002 8:35 AM > > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Come# > > Subject: Re: HP Product Roadmapr > >G > >. > > "Terry C. Shannon" wrote:l > >dB > > > "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com> wrote in message; > > > news:1kZB8.95042$WV1.28883107@typhoon.ne.ipsvc.net...p > > > >rB > > > > "Stuart, Ed" <Ed.Stuart@austinenergy.com> wrote in message > > > >  > > > B > > news:92EFB80E551BD511B39500D0B7B0CDCC0642C3D7@ohms.electric.ci > .austin.tx.us. > > > ../ > > > > The HP Product Roadmap can be found at:o< > > > > http://www.hp.com/hpinfo/newsroom/press/07may02b.htm > > > > 7 > > > > There is one and only one reference to OpenVMS.h > > >tA > > > Yep. No change to committed roadmap, products, or IPF port.  > > > G > > > Whether HPQ plans to get stabilize the base and (try to) minimizee
 > customerE > > > and ISV attrition, or whether the firm plans to try to grow them > business,R > > > remains to be seen.? > > >g > > H > > Perhaps some positively-worded (at this point NOBODY in HPQ wants to	 > receive L > > any more bashing, deserved or not) suggestions and statements of support# > > might help. They couldn't hurt.h > >oC > > Wouldn't hurt to highlight Sue S as a valuable asset to the VMSY
 franchise,
 > > either...  >C% > To whom should the message be sent?n   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 16:06:52 GMTa1 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com>h Subject: Re: HP Product RoadmapA, Message-ID: <weSC8.17117$RR3.8666@sccrnsc02>  4 "David Mathog" <mathog@caltech.edu> wrote in message% news:3CDBE700.2821F058@caltech.edu...t > "Terry C. Shannon" wrote:  >aH > > You will know when I've thrown in the towel... I'll pull the plug onJ > > SKwhatever, because I'll be damned if I'll do SKuSoftandIntel. There's- > > enough trade press around to do that! ;-}  > < > But Terry, how else can HPQ reduce their R&D to the extent9 > that they have stated without becoming a de facto whiteoG > box vendor?  More than half of that company is uSoftandIntel already.d  I Really? Seems to me that HP Labs was more Unix/Java-centric than Windoze.4H But we will see! IIRC they plan to maintain about a $4B R&D budget, less1 than 5 percent of run rate but still significant.o  @ > The small amount they've allocated for R&D would seem adequate= > to cover the printer and storage divisions, with some small-: > pittance for the Enterprise sector.  It certainly leaves" > nothing substantial for the PCs. >:> > To avoid becoming SKuSoftandIntel SKHPC would have to ignoreA > HPQ PC operations - even though it's half the company. And werex? > you really planning a large amount of coverage of the printerr@ > division?  Probably not, since most of your readers are likelyB > not all that interested in the latest ink developments.  So keepD > covering the enterprise bits in depth no matter who owns them. AndE > in any case the big story over the next year and a half is probablyeF > going to be the massive train wreck which is the Godotium fiasco. AtG > this point I'd bet that we're more likely to see HPQ selling Opterons E > than Itaniums one year from now.  And what a hash that will make of2# > their corporate long range plans.  >u
 > Regards, >  > David Mathog > mathog@caltech.edu   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 17:27:16 GMT5# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>U Subject: Re: HP Product Roadmap H Message-ID: <UpTC8.12437$QOT.11991@news02.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>  G I don't think a <5% R&D expenditure level ever cut it at any technology J company that has survived, and I've been analyzing tech companies for over	 20 years.   J The R&D has probably been cut back so that Carly can show her cost savings forecasts came true.  @ It's typical corporate America -- where the long-term health andL competitiveness of corporations is sacrificed by senior management for theirE short-term own financial gain (remember the small $117MM compensationy9 package the Board is going to shower on her and Mikey??).x  J It's high time the SEC stepped in with new regulations about nonsense like8 this since shareholders seem to be powerless any longer.  B In many companies, shareholder proposals (as opposed to managementH proposals) take extreme effort to get on the ballots at annual meetings.I Shareholder proposal background material is often not distributed whereas J management proposal background material is distributed at company expense.  B Proxy material might only show shareholder proposals as 'Item #3 -5 Shareholder Proposal', without any other description.R  I And even if by some miracle the proposal is voted on and wins, it usuallytK still has to be ratified by the Board of Directors who, in their collective 8 self-interest, can conveniently NOT ratify the proposal.  A Management can also DENY the addition of shareholder nominees forbL directors - I call it the Politburo approach to governance. Can you think ofF any high profile companies that just underwent a merger that fits this description?  L All of this is currently legal, and because so much power is in the hands ofJ management it takes a huge shareholder revolt to overturn these outrageous
 practices.   But don't get me started......      < "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com> wrote in message& news:weSC8.17117$RR3.8666@sccrnsc02... >g >oK > Really? Seems to me that HP Labs was more Unix/Java-centric than Windoze.uJ > But we will see! IIRC they plan to maintain about a $4B R&D budget, less3 > than 5 percent of run rate but still significant.e > B > > The small amount they've allocated for R&D would seem adequate? > > to cover the printer and storage divisions, with some small < > > pittance for the Enterprise sector.  It certainly leaves$ > > nothing substantial for the PCs. > >=   ------------------------------  + Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 16:02:33 +0000 (UTC)h/ From: Sander Vesik <sander@haldjas.folklore.ee>  Subject: Re: Itanium troubless3 Message-ID: <1021046554.435812@haldjas.folklore.ee>O  = In comp.arch David J. Dachtera <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote:  > Sander Vesik wrote:t >> mD >> In comp.arch Tarjei T. Jensen <tarjei.jensen@kvaerner.com> wrote: >> > >> > [snip] L >> > Reading books on usability should be a requirement for all programmers. >> > >>  H >> Having a clue about how FreeBSD and similar projects happen should beD >> compulsory, so nobody would ever say something as stupid as that. > J > Now, I may be wrong, but I took that to mean that Sander apparently seesE > neither the necessity nor importance of usability as having as muchuG > weight as the other issues involved in the development of open-source  > software.   H No - this is not how I would put it - its just that Open Source projectsI by their very nauture and reason of existence accomodate people with lotsnI of different goals, and they work on the project because they want so andsJ on the areas they want to. There is no meaningful way of saying 'it shouldG be compulsory for them to do <blah>'. If there are no people working onnK usability on project x that just means nobody interested on doing it on the  project has shown up yet.9  D Saying 'x should be a requirement for them' just doesn't make sense.   -- w 	Sanderr   +++ Out of cheese error +++4   ------------------------------   Date: 10 May 2002 16:52:34 GMT( From: nmm1@cus.cam.ac.uk (Nick Maclaren) Subject: Re: Itanium troubleso0 Message-ID: <abgtsi$2i1$1@pegasus.csx.cam.ac.uk>  2 In article <1021048399.21056@haldjas.folklore.ee>,1 Sander Vesik <sander@haldjas.folklore.ee> writes:h9 |> In comp.arch Nick Maclaren <nmm1@cus.cam.ac.uk> wrote:h |> > .K |> > Not quite.  It has NOTHING to do with open source as such, but a greatfK |> > deal to do with the community that developed BSD, and I am pretty sure- |> > than Sander knows that. |>  H |> Nick - I really have to disagree here. Neither has the development ofI |> BSD stopped, nor is the dynamics of open source projects irrelevant toeH |> their present status. Open Source projects are very often not good onC |> documenattion or usability, and to an extent becuase compared toyI |> programmers a smaller percenatage of usability people and tech writers  |> are into open source. e  B They are.  And they can be very good.  NAG started as open source,= for example.  While I agree that there are currently very few D usability people and technical writers in the open source community,A it is unclear that those in the commercial community have much ofN? a clue.  Certainly, I cannot notice much difference, as a user.   B My point is that it is the social conventions that control whetherC usability is taken seriously, and this is separate from whether the @ project is open source or not.  There may well be a correlation,! but that is also a social matter.O     Regards, Nick Maclaren,* University of Cambridge Computing Service,> New Museums Site, Pembroke Street, Cambridge CB2 3QH, England. Email:  nmm1@cam.ac.uk/ Tel.:  +44 1223 334761    Fax:  +44 1223 334679    ------------------------------  + Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 16:33:18 +0000 (UTC)-/ From: Sander Vesik <sander@haldjas.folklore.ee>3 Subject: Re: Itanium troubles"2 Message-ID: <1021048399.21056@haldjas.folklore.ee>  6 In comp.arch Nick Maclaren <nmm1@cus.cam.ac.uk> wrote: > H > Not quite.  It has NOTHING to do with open source as such, but a greatH > deal to do with the community that developed BSD, and I am pretty sure > than Sander knows that.s >   E Nick - I really have to disagree here. Neither has the development of.F BSD stopped, nor is the dynamics of open source projects irrelevant toE their present status. Open Source projects are very often not good on0@ documenattion or usability, and to an extent becuase compared toF programmers a smaller percenatage of usability people and tech writers are into open source.   
 > Regards, > Nick Maclaren,, > University of Cambridge Computing Service,@ > New Museums Site, Pembroke Street, Cambridge CB2 3QH, England. > Email:  nmm1@cam.ac.uk1 > Tel.:  +44 1223 334761    Fax:  +44 1223 334679z   -- t 	Sander    +++ Out of cheese error +++    ------------------------------  + Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 16:46:04 +0000 (UTC)s/ From: Sander Vesik <sander@haldjas.folklore.ee>i Subject: Re: Itanium troubles 3 Message-ID: <1021049165.529936@haldjas.folklore.ee>e  = In comp.arch David J. Dachtera <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote:u >> And they F >> are not exceptional.  The modern BSDs are better than the old ones, >> but are still pretty bad. > J > Well, if you're total VMS bigot like me, yeah. On the other hand, if youC > recall AT&T System 3.7 or older, you'll think some of today's Gnu.G > utilities (as found in the average Linux or *BSD distro) are, as theyc > say, "the cat's ass".n >   2 *bsds mostly use their own and not gnu utilities.    -- r 	Sanderc   +++ Out of cheese error +++o   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 08:16:20 -0400e2 From: Atlant Schmidt <atlantnospam@mindspring.com>A Subject: Re: MacOS/X is the leading Unix (was "Itanium Troubles")t. Message-ID: <3CDBBA13.DCF32F09@mindspring.com>   Paul Sture wrote:r  N > Can you please suggest a decent Mac newsgroup for a computer literate person > who is a Mac novice?  7 comp.sys.mac.system isn't too noisy and folks there areS usually pretty helpful.    Atlant   ------------------------------    Date: 10 May 2002 07:54:39 -0600- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)sA Subject: Re: MacOS/X is the leading Unix (was "Itanium Troubles").3 Message-ID: <LU7avm2OV0Ac@eisner.encompasserve.org>   U In article <9eZdYVhxpdW8@elias.decus.ch>, p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture) writes:o > N > Can you please suggest a decent Mac newsgroup for a computer literate person > who is a Mac novice?  G    No, sorry.  There's so much noise in those groups I prefer to ask myVE    Mac questions here.  Never got an answer to a real question in anyC4    Mac group I've tried, but someone in c.o.v knows.   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 14:52:38 GMTh& From: John Reagan <john.reagan@hp.com>A Subject: Re: MacOS/X is the leading Unix (was "Itanium Troubles") % Message-ID: <3CDBDD7C.9000108@hp.com>C   Paul Sture wrote:iN > Can you please suggest a decent Mac newsgroup for a computer literate person > who is a Mac novice? >   < I usually ask my questions in the forums at www.macfixit.com       -- e John ReaganS' Compaq Pascal/{A|I}MACRO Project Leader    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 10:16:49 -0400i- From: "Peter Weaver" <peter.weaver@stelco.ca>  Subject: Re: ODL bugs 5 Message-ID: <abgkp8$i0pol$1@ID-141708.news.dfncis.de>   . "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> wrote in message3 news:CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIKEECEPAA.tom@kednos.com... 0 > Maybe someone at hpq will see this and fix it. >g2 >  1.  Make search work in ODL running on windows.B >  2.  Allow ODL for VMS and Tru64 to coexist.  If you try install? >      one and then the other, the second overwrites the first,t% >      They have the same names, duh.- >...  H Did you try sending mail to odlcdrom@compaq.com? If you do try them thenL good luck. In March of 2001 I asked them when they would put the Windows ODLL on the VAX CD kit. They said "We do plan to release a windows version of theJ VAX Online Documentation Library in the near future." In October of 2001 IF asked them the same question again, three weeks later I asked the sameL question since I did not receive the answer to the first question. Finally I was told "Next month."  G I do not understand why it took so long to release the VAX CD, for that L matter, I STILL do not understand why they release two separate kits instead9 of just releasing a VMS documentation kit. The people the F odlcdrom@compaq.com could not tell me the answer to either question. IG wonder if they are going to put us through the same garbage when VMS is  released for Itanium?-   -- Peter WeaverL Opinions are my own, and do not reflect the opinions of my employer, nor theK company that it sub-contracts to, nor the company that it sub-contracts to.    ------------------------------  + Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 10:19:29 -0700 (PDT)I. From: Fabio Cardoso <fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br>" Subject: Re: OpenVMS Certification@ Message-ID: <20020510171929.16110.qmail@web20209.mail.yahoo.com>   I am sad ! a  5 I cant become an OpenVMS SA certified because I didnte4 have OpenVMS courses at Compaq... just in DEC times.+ I need that Compaq Student ID... so I will a4 need to have a class at Compaq and ... I think will - not be possible for me to become a SE (Systemo6 Engineer) because there arent Internals courses in .BR, !!!  Just the CSC peoplehave access to these
 courses...    1 Anyone need a Sysman in Europe ? I am thinking too0 go there even as Computer Operator If I have the) opportunity to get some certifications...l   Regards    FC  / --- "Stanley F. Quayle" <stan@stanq.com> wrote:o0 > On 6 May 2002, at 22:19, Michael Austin wrote:5 > > Gee, why would one need a "certification" with 18  > years experience.  I2 > > feel sorry for those who hire "certified" over > experience...  > 5 > Brother, I feel your pain.  A piece of paper versus  > a proven track r > record...c > 4 > However, small-minded people only know to look for > the paper, not the Q5 > track record.  So, why not spend a few bucks on then > certification?  / > Some of those small-minded people have money.  > 5 > In my experience, most of the money is in the hands- > of those kind of   > people.  Ironic, isn't it? >  >  > --Stan Quayle # > President, Quayle Consulting Inc.u >  > ----------4 > Stanley F. Quayle, P.E.   N8SQ   +1 614-868-1363   > Fax: +1 614 868-16713 > 8572 North Spring Ct. NW, Pickerington, OH  43147y* > Preferred address:  stan@stanq.com       > http://www.stanq.com >      =====@ ========================== Fbio dos Santos Cardoso OpenVMS System Manager Rio de Janeiro - Brazili fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br ==========================  2 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!?+ Yahoo! Shopping - Mother's Day is May 12th!p http://shopping.yahoo.como   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 13:26:30 -0400a- From: "Peter Weaver" <peter.weaver@stelco.ca>g" Subject: Re: OpenVMS Certification5 Message-ID: <abgvss$idkot$1@ID-141708.news.dfncis.de>a  ; "Fabio Cardoso" <fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br> wrote in message:: news:20020510171929.16110.qmail@web20209.mail.yahoo.com... > I am sad ! > 7 > I cant become an OpenVMS SA certified because I didntm6 > have OpenVMS courses at Compaq... just in DEC times., > I need that Compaq Student ID... so I will >...  K You just need to call them and ask for a student ID. I have never taken anyDJ courses at DEC or Compaq, but they gave me a student ID that I had to giveJ when I wrote the tests. Check the web pages for the correct number to call in your area of the world.   -- Peter WeaverL Opinions are my own, and do not reflect the opinions of my employer, nor theK company that it sub-contracts to, nor the company that it sub-contracts to.    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 14:35:00 +0200n9 From: Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com>h" Subject: OracleWord at Copenhagen.' Message-ID: <3CDBBE74.7704029F@aaa.com>p   Hi.l2 Just got an invitation from Oracle to "OracleWord" at Copenhagen 24-27 June.g  < No mention of Rdb or VMS (of course), but, wait, what's that= on the last page ? A picture taken from an earlier OracleWordl9 event. Right in the very middle of the picture there is a ; big sign saying "Server Consolidation and OVMS E-Business".-, It's the only thing readable in the picture.  # Well, it's at least *something* :-)h  2 Or maybe it's just the kind of "mistake" we say on6 the VMS 7.3 box (the SUN terminal, remember ?) :-) :-)   Jan-Erik Sderholm.a   ------------------------------  + Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 15:14:52 +0100 (MET)r9 From: Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>o& Subject: Re: OracleWord at Copenhagen.; Message-ID: <01KHKFCSBPDA984VLY@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>d  > > No mention of Rdb or VMS (of course), but, wait, what's that? > on the last page ? A picture taken from an earlier OracleWord ; > event. Right in the very middle of the picture there is ao= > big sign saying "Server Consolidation and OVMS E-Business".a. > It's the only thing readable in the picture.  & There is Rdb stuff going on here.  See  @    http://www.oracle.com/rdb/tech_forums/index.html?content.html  9 I assume this is simultaneous with the OracleWorld stuff.m   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 09:24:15 +0100i From: Roy Omond <Roy@Omond.net>s& Subject: OT: Eviscerate ... eviscerate( Message-ID: <3CDB83AF.8EC9832@Omond.net>   Is it just me ?   4 I can't help but think of Dr. Who and the Daleks :-)  9 "Choir" of Daleks all chantng "Eviscerate ... eviscerate"   	 Roy OmondA Blue Bubble Ltd.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 11:07:36 +0200a- From: Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@Free.fr>  Subject: Re: Powered by HP' Message-ID: <3CDB8DD9.CD6EACEB@Free.fr>    "Terry C. Shannon" wrote:i > A > The best thing you can do at this point is sell your HPQ sharestM > and immediately decommission your CPQ or HP enterprise data center in favorc. > of IBM or Sun or Dell kit. That'll show 'em!  P No, Terry. We are not interested to "show 'em" anything. We are interested to doK something to keep alive VMS, this is different. Remember that you are now asN journalist, you will continue to do business with SKHP, we not. We will be outJ of business in five years if VMS Customers "decommission [their] CPQ or HP7 enterprise data center in favor of IBM or Sun or Dell".g   D.   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 12:13:02 GMTh1 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com>t Subject: Re: Powered by HP, Message-ID: <iPOC8.16541$WR1.5713@sccrnsc01>  : "Didier Morandi" <Didier.Morandi@Free.fr> wrote in message! news:3CDB8DD9.CD6EACEB@Free.fr...v > "Terry C. Shannon" wrote:  > >tC > > The best thing you can do at this point is sell your HPQ sharesvI > > and immediately decommission your CPQ or HP enterprise data center ine favorf0 > > of IBM or Sun or Dell kit. That'll show 'em! >yL > No, Terry. We are not interested to "show 'em" anything. We are interested to doCK > something to keep alive VMS, this is different. Remember that you are now  amL > journalist, you will continue to do business with SKHP, we not. We will be outdL > of business in five years if VMS Customers "decommission [their] CPQ or HP9 > enterprise data center in favor of IBM or Sun or Dell".e  L Demographically speaking, a lot of my paid subscribers run VMS shops. If HPQH goes completely "industry-standard," I expect that I will be mounting myG first-ever political campaign. That is, of course, if Dog Catcher is anR% elected position in Albuquerque, NM!.p  I Speaking of Dogs, there are new Big Dogs running the VMS franchise, or at H least the marketing thereof. A barrage of POSITIVE communication to same early on might help the cause.  K And you are right, it might not. But I dare say constructive criticism willl@ get more traction than histrionics and bashing. My opinion only.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 08:29:27 -0500o1 From: "Dave Gudewicz" <david.gudewicz@abbott.com>o Subject: Re: Powered by HP1 Message-ID: <abgi46$g96$1@fizban.pprd.abbott.com>o  K Please write to Mr. Stallard and let him know how you feel.  I did, and got  an encouraging response.  E You might also try writing to:  Peter Blackmore and Michael Capellas..  K If you think this effort will be "futile" (long "i"), then show me proof ofn9 anything getting fixed by wailing and moaning on this ng.    -- Dave...t  6 If you pick up a starving dog and make him prosperous,, he will not bite you.  This is the principle# difference between a dog and a man.c -----Mark Twaina  : "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message& news:3CDAFD81.C413C42E@videotron.ca... > John Smith wrote:aI > > So they had plenty of time to carefully word their vacuous statements H > > regarding the importance of OpenVMS. Exactly the kind of statement a lawyerJ > > would write when they want allow their client to weasel out of a deal. >O: > There is no need to speculate on HP's commitment to VMS. >eL > It is quite simple: HP doesn't want to announce VMS's death yet. There may beK > strategic advantages to allowing its port to IA64 to complete, even it itu> > isn't productized, or even if productized but not sold much. >lG > Also, as I have said many times, I believe the plan is to control the,H > attrition rate from VMS so that revenus from others sources can slowly replacebH > lost VMS revenus. Doi it slowly and the loss of VMS doesn't show up inL > financials. Do it like Palmer did, and they show up big time. With this inJ > mind, it is logical for HP to not officially announce VMS as a mature OS andw2 > pretend that it continues on its present course. >yH > Stallard made a costly mistake in my opinion because his statement wasG > premature. Once the "new" HP-UX is available on IA64 with some of thesK > clustering etc, then, with a target product available, it woudl have been  OK; > to start to say that HP-UX is good enough to replace VMS.i >oI > However, if you realise today that HP expects you to migrate off VMS to  HP-UX,I > and HP-UX isn't available yet, you will start to look at other productst righttK > away, and that means Sun and IBM. This means that the attrition rate from- VMS-3 > will be higher than perhaps HP would have wished.    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 15:26:09 +0200-- From: Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@Free.fr>a Subject: Re: Powered by HP' Message-ID: <3CDBCA71.640F3DE8@Free.fr>h   "Terry C. Shannon" wrote:  >  ../..a > M > And you are right, it might not. But I dare say constructive criticism willHB > get more traction than histrionics and bashing. My opinion only.   I agree. Do you go to DECUS Lyon?   D. (booth #13)-   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 13:54:32 GMT 1 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com>d Subject: Re: Powered by HP, Message-ID: <siQC8.17141$WR1.6711@sccrnsc01>  : "Didier Morandi" <Didier.Morandi@Free.fr> wrote in message! news:3CDBCA71.640F3DE8@Free.fr...t > "Terry C. Shannon" wrote:t > >> > ../..e > >sJ > > And you are right, it might not. But I dare say constructive criticism willD > > get more traction than histrionics and bashing. My opinion only. > 
 > I agree. > Do you go to DECUS Lyon? >c > D.
 > (booth #13)s  L Mais bien sur, mon ami. My presentation is on Wednesday in Salle Pasteur, atL 1130 hours IIRC. I will try to get the PPT file posted on www.openvms.org at the conclusion of the event.  E I'll be staying in the Lyon Hilton along with my comely secretary andl administrative assistant. ;-}r   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 13:54:32 GMT 1 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com>  Subject: Re: Powered by HP, Message-ID: <siQC8.17142$WR1.6805@sccrnsc01>  < "Dave Gudewicz" <david.gudewicz@abbott.com> wrote in message+ news:abgi46$g96$1@fizban.pprd.abbott.com...kI > Please write to Mr. Stallard and let him know how you feel.  I did, and- got- > an encouraging response. >:G > You might also try writing to:  Peter Blackmore and Michael Capellas.j >:J > If you think this effort will be "futile" (long "i"), then show me proof of; > anything getting fixed by wailing and moaning on this ng.o >u  I Correct. I believe it would be prudent to emphasize one's interest in theoL platform in question, and to provide constructive criticism and suggestions.K I am not an eternal optimist but I do believe we should give the new regimel the benefit of the doubt!r   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 15:22:12 -0000s- From: wspencer@ap.nospam.org (Warren Spencer)o Subject: Re: Powered by HP7 Message-ID: <920A7E0F9warrenspencer1977@209.249.90.100>m  2 terryshannon@attbi.com (Terry C. Shannon) wrote in" <siQC8.17142$WR1.6805@sccrnsc01>:    > = >"Dave Gudewicz" <david.gudewicz@abbott.com> wrote in message , >news:abgi46$g96$1@fizban.pprd.abbott.com...F >> Please write to Mr. Stallard and let him know how you feel.  I did, >> and   >got >> an encouraging response.+ >>H >> You might also try writing to:  Peter Blackmore and Michael Capellas. >>E >> If you think this effort will be "futile" (long "i"), then show me.	 >> proof c >of:< >> anything getting fixed by wailing and moaning on this ng. >> >eF >Correct. I believe it would be prudent to emphasize one's interest inD >the platform in question, and to provide constructive criticism andE >suggestions. I am not an eternal optimist but I do believe we should . >give the new regime the benefit of the doubt! >   L If ever we, as a group, decided to put our collective shoulder into pushing D OpenVMS in a positive direction, now would likely be the right time.   ws   -- s   Warren Spencer' Senior Software Engineer (not a writer)s The Associated Press  < ** Time flies like an arrow.  Fruit flies like a bananna. **   ------------------------------    Date: 10 May 2002 10:49:12 -0700% From: rnturn@baxter.com (Rick Turner)M Subject: Re: Powered by HP= Message-ID: <9697b9e2.0205100949.426e53c7@posting.google.com>r   "Stuart, Ed" <Ed.Stuart@austinenergy.com> wrote in message news:<92EFB80E551BD511B39500D0B7B0CDCC0642C3F1@ohms.electric.ci.austin.tx.us>...pF > Wow, that never happened to us.  We still have Digital AlphaServers.  D It was obviously not done everywhere but probably something that theF local FS guy decided to get out of the way.  My current employer still) has plenty of equipment w/ Digital logos.i   ------------------------------  + Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 16:20:29 +0100 (MET)e9 From: Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>l' Subject: simple disk-shadowing questiong; Message-ID: <01KHKHPB3HXC984VLY@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>   D MUST members of shadow sets use allocation-class names, rather than   node-based names.  The docs say:  ?    In all of the following examples, the shadow set members useM3    the $allocation-class $ddcu: naming convention. -  8 but don't say (at least not here) that this is REQUIRED.   ------------------------------  + Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 16:58:56 +0100 (MET)d9 From: Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>0+ Subject: Re: simple disk-shadowing questiono; Message-ID: <01KHKJ1BZLN0984VLY@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>t  G > > MUST members of shadow sets use allocation-class names, rather thano$ > > node-based names.  The docs say: > > C > >    In all of the following examples, the shadow set members use-6 > >    the $allocation-class $ddcu: naming convention. > > < > > but don't say (at least not here) that this is REQUIRED. > K > I wrestled with that too.  (I wanted to keep "nodenames"$dev).  I believeeK > the answer is "you have to define allocation class for shadowing", for at.J > least v7.3 which is where I was testing.  I would bet it is true for all > versions though.  H I found that this requirement is stated later on in the docs.  I'm sure D it goes back to really old versions of VMS, and is still true today.  I IIRC, it is because the name of the disk in the Storage Control Block is   limited to a particular length.y   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 14:45:07 GMTt' From: Rick Dyson <Rick-Dyson@UIowa.EDU>a+ Subject: Re: simple disk-shadowing questionf) Message-ID: <3CDBDCF3.A7E3D08A@UIowa.EDU>h   Phillip Helbig wrote:r > E > MUST members of shadow sets use allocation-class names, rather thanh" > node-based names.  The docs say: > A >    In all of the following examples, the shadow set members use"4 >    the $allocation-class $ddcu: naming convention. > : > but don't say (at least not here) that this is REQUIRED.  I I wrestled with that too.  (I wanted to keep "nodenames"$dev).  I believeiI the answer is "you have to define allocation class for shadowing", for athH least v7.3 which is where I was testing.  I would bet it is true for all versions though.   rick   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 10:24:48 +0200h5 From: Martin Knoblauch <Martin.Knoblauch@teraport.de>-0 Subject: Re: SKC Morphs Again... We're Now SKHPC5 Message-ID: <abg04g$hm40i$1@ID-115181.news.dfncis.de>1  ( Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy wrote:   >  >  > Russell Wallace wrote: >    >> RD >> I'm still curious - what exactly was the trick they used? And whyH >> won't it work on user code, given that the SPEC suite mostly consists >> of user code? >> a >  >  > 4 > Don't ask Freddy he doesn't know and has just made > what he appears to know up.  > 9 > I guess that the collective Alpha is a high performances7 > CPU BS hit the fan with Freddys claim that deliveringh8 > good SPECfp performance would not translate into users= > seing better perf for their apps. You need to look long and = > hard to find anything as flattering to Alpha as SPECint andI	 > SPECfp.e > ; > Freddy is after all a highly respected engineer who works 6 > for Compaq, what better source could you ask for ??? >   M  all of this does of course answer the question being asked - doesn't it. So i# what was your qualification again ?    Martin   -- rB ------------------------------------------------------------------B Martin Knoblauch         |    email:  Martin.Knoblauch@TeraPort.de7 TeraPort GmbH            |    Phone:  +49-89-510857-309 7 C+ITS                    |    Fax:    +49-89-510857-111y5 http://www.teraport.de   |    Mobile: +49-170-4904759o   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 09:59:19 +0100o From: Roy Omond <Roy@Omond.net>f# Subject: Re: Stallards smoking gun!i) Message-ID: <3CDB8BE8.FE82DBDF@Omond.net>d   Carl Karcher wrote:I  B > In a previous article, bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski) wrote: >3L > ->I could care less about anyone else ... as long as I have vms and I haveL > ->support, let everyone else get shut down ... I will be up, the company IO > ->work for will be up 99.9999, and I will be just fine ... for those who failn > ->...  >JD > Come on Bob, while I have a similar mantra, that's six nines or 31H > seconds of downtime a year if I did the math correctly. Even VMS would% > be hard pressed to accomplish that.h  H Come on Carl, you haven't been reading Good Old Bob Ceculski's postings.G He's never seen a VMS crash in the last 32,767 *years*.  So it's not 31.8 seconds downtime per year;  it's -0 seconds per year :-)  D So the question for Bob is: "why the 31 seconds downtime per year ?"  E P.s. I've been working with VMS for more than 20 years, and I've seenmC my fair share of crashes.  Crash dumps ?  Been there, done that ...t  	 Roy Omond  Blue Bubble Ltd.   ------------------------------    Date: 10 May 2002 04:06:56 -0700( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)# Subject: Re: Stallards smoking gun!t= Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0205100306.2df45372@posting.google.com>y  n karcher@kort.waisman.wisc.edu (Carl Karcher) wrote in message news:<10MAY02.02454708@kort.waisman.wisc.edu>...B > In a previous article, bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski) wrote: > L > ->I could care less about anyone else ... as long as I have vms and I haveL > ->support, let everyone else get shut down ... I will be up, the company IO > ->work for will be up 99.9999, and I will be just fine ... for those who fail- > ->...e > D > Come on Bob, while I have a similar mantra, that's six nines or 31H > seconds of downtime a year if I did the math correctly. Even VMS would% > be hard pressed to accomplish that.g  M oh yeh? well, our servers have been up for over a year now, and it would havee6 been two, except for a change of a bum shadow disk ...  M as for a vms os crash, it's been over 17 years now and I am still waiting ...l   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 12:09:00 GMTr1 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com>y# Subject: Re: Stallards smoking gun! , Message-ID: <wLOC8.16516$WR1.6589@sccrnsc01>  , "Roy Omond" <Roy@Omond.net> wrote in message# news:3CDB8BE8.FE82DBDF@Omond.net...r > Carl Karcher wrote:  >0D > > In a previous article, bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski) wrote: > >cI > > ->I could care less about anyone else ... as long as I have vms and Iu haveL > > ->support, let everyone else get shut down ... I will be up, the company I L > > ->work for will be up 99.9999, and I will be just fine ... for those who fail	 > > ->...l > >tF > > Come on Bob, while I have a similar mantra, that's six nines or 31J > > seconds of downtime a year if I did the math correctly. Even VMS would' > > be hard pressed to accomplish that./ >.J > Come on Carl, you haven't been reading Good Old Bob Ceculski's postings.9 > He's never seen a VMS crash in the last 32,767 *years*.-  8 Neither have I. Only started using VMS 20 years ago. ;-}   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 09:03:00 -0400-' From: "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@hp.com> # Subject: RE: Stallards smoking gun!oT Message-ID: <BE56C50EA024184DAF48F0B9A47F5CF401AB1F2B@kaoexc01.americas.cpqcorp.net>  @ >>>> Neither have I. Only started using VMS 20 years ago. ;-}<<<  D Well, having spent time in a prior lifetime doing CS support, I haveB seen lots of crash dumps, but the point is that there are numerous3 examples of extra ordinary uptimes for VMS systems.   G Case in point - the Irish National Railway application ran CONTINUOUSLYn? (no scheduled or unscheduled system downtime which impacted theiE application availability) for 17 years before being retired some timeW
 last year.   Regards   
 Kerry Main Senior Consultante HP Global Services HP Canada Ltd. Voice: 613-592-4660t Fax  :  819-772-7036 Email: Kerry.Main@hp.com     -----Original Message-----9 From: Terry C. Shannon [mailto:terryshannon@attbi.com]=20f Sent: May 10, 2002 8:09 AM To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comi# Subject: Re: Stallards smoking gun!       , "Roy Omond" <Roy@Omond.net> wrote in message# news:3CDB8BE8.FE82DBDF@Omond.net...h > Carl Karcher wrote:o ><D > > In a previous article, bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski) wrote: > >5J > > ->I could care less about anyone else ... as long as I have vms and=20 > > ->I  haveG > > ->support, let everyone else get shut down ... I will be up, the=20 
 > > ->companyc IdH > > ->work for will be up 99.9999, and I will be just fine ... for those  	 > > ->whoH fail	 > > ->...  > >rI > > Come on Bob, while I have a similar mantra, that's six nines or 31=20eG > > seconds of downtime a year if I did the math correctly. Even VMS=20d- > > would be hard pressed to accomplish that.e >tC > Come on Carl, you haven't been reading Good Old Bob Ceculski's=20dC > postings. He's never seen a VMS crash in the last 32,767 *years*.   8 Neither have I. Only started using VMS 20 years ago. ;-}   ------------------------------  + Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 12:34:08 +0000 (UTC)g From: david20@alpha1.mdx.ac.uk# Subject: Re: Stallards smoking gun! + Message-ID: <abgenv$dik$1@aquila.mdx.ac.uk>m  o In article <mFGC8.29023$GLp1.28279@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>, "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> writes:u >N; >"Stuart, Ed" <Ed.Stuart@austinenergy.com> wrote in messageVM >news:92EFB80E551BD511B39500D0B7B0CDCC0642C3F0@ohms.electric.ci.austin.tx.us.i >...A >>We need each of us to let the folks at HP know what they can doiK >> to market OpenVMS better, and how it will benefit their bottom line.  Inh@ >> other words, don't just complain, but also bring suggestions. >> >> Ed H >> **Please apply a generous amount of all the usual disclaimers here.** >@J >I agree with you Ed, however I remain skeptical until there are full pageI >ads in the Wall Street Journal announcing a full-scale promotion of VMS.eM >But HP won't do that because the fools at Gartner would put them through the:M >wringer about that, and then the Wall Street types will simply echo the sameu% >crap, and then the stock goes down. n  M As I recall during the renaissance Gartner actually started to say a few goodfN things about VMS. I'm sure that would occur again if HP were to commision themK to produce a report say on clustering. Then having published one favourable H report they would have trouble bad mouthing VMS for at least a couple of months.v  ' >None of the Wall Street types actuallyoI >go out to speak with living VMS customers, especially not those who havee4 >tried unix and found out that it sucks the big one. >a >e >A bumper sticker for you: >h >VMS.....because Unix sucks. >o >a  
 David Webb VMS and Unix team leader CCSS Middlesex University   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 13:54:31 GMT'1 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com>t# Subject: Re: Stallards smoking gun!t, Message-ID: <riQC8.17140$WR1.6415@sccrnsc01>  + <david20@alpha1.mdx.ac.uk> wrote in messages% news:abgenv$dik$1@aquila.mdx.ac.uk...pK > In article <mFGC8.29023$GLp1.28279@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>, % "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> writes:S > >n= > >"Stuart, Ed" <Ed.Stuart@austinenergy.com> wrote in messagea >aL >news:92EFB80E551BD511B39500D0B7B0CDCC0642C3F0@ohms.electric.ci.austin.tx.us .  > >...C > >>We need each of us to let the folks at HP know what they can do I > >> to market OpenVMS better, and how it will benefit their bottom line.a InB > >> other words, don't just complain, but also bring suggestions. > >> > >> EdbJ > >> **Please apply a generous amount of all the usual disclaimers here.** > >aL > >I agree with you Ed, however I remain skeptical until there are full pageK > >ads in the Wall Street Journal announcing a full-scale promotion of VMS.aK > >But HP won't do that because the fools at Gartner would put them througho theoJ > >wringer about that, and then the Wall Street types will simply echo the same& > >crap, and then the stock goes down. >tJ > As I recall during the renaissance Gartner actually started to say a few goodK > things about VMS. I'm sure that would occur again if HP were to commision  themB > to produce a report say on clustering. Then having published one
 favourableJ > report they would have trouble bad mouthing VMS for at least a couple of	 > months.c  I The last I heard out of Gartner (feedback from somebody who attended a GGiJ conference) is that GG believes that the IPF port will happen but that VMS? will succumb to ISV attrition in the second half of the decade.   H Unless things change at HPQ, I must say that what Gartner has to say has some merit.-   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 09:36:35 -0500e1 From: "Dave Gudewicz" <david.gudewicz@abbott.com>.# Subject: Re: Stallards smoking gun! 1 Message-ID: <abgm2t$gv5$1@fizban.pprd.abbott.com>h  : Once again, write Mr. Stallard and see what he has to say.   -- Dave...n  6 If you pick up a starving dog and make him prosperous,, he will not bite you.  This is the principle# difference between a dog and a man.y -----Mark Twaino  : "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message& news:3CDAFA0F.5C8CCF08@videotron.ca... > Bob Ceculski wrote:nL > > > Where is that famous secret letter you were so proudly talking about ? > > G > > vms has survived and will survive as I said, however, that does not D > > mean the fight has ended ... this proves the same mentality that@ > > existed in Q has popped up in HP, and it must be confronted! >1L > Go back to your original statement about the letter. HP was supposed to be9 > doing great things with VMS tyat we all be happy about.l >eK > None of that has happened. The statement by Stallard puts VMS on the samenK > footing as Tru64. You cannot take the product roadmap by itself. You have  toK > consider that Carly has , for 8 months, taken active steps NOT to mention) VMS.H > You have to consider that, in the roadmap,  VMS takes up one line thatJ > essentially says that HP won't break contractual commitments that Compaq hadiD > made with customers. Nothing about fixing the lack of marketing or allowing > VMS to grow. >tJ > And then comes the Stallard golden nugget about HP wishing VMS customers > migrate to HP-UX.- >-J > HP hasn't had the guts to make the same declaration as it did for Tru64. ItJ > doesn't need to because VMS is obscure and HP need not explain it to the media9D > (HP had to for Tru64 because HP had to show it was eliminating the duplicationt > of 2 proprietary Unix).@ >rK > But the fact remains that HP has given strong hints of its intentions. If  youwI > choose not to heed this, you will be caught with your pants down. Checkn out H > how quickly Carly moved on the logos etc etc. She won't be wasting any time > with VMS.t   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 09:40:23 -0500 1 From: "Dave Gudewicz" <david.gudewicz@abbott.com> # Subject: Re: Stallards smoking gun!n1 Message-ID: <abgm95$gvf$1@fizban.pprd.abbott.com>   J While the bumper sticker is interesting, I suggest you keep those feelingsI (and stickers) out of the messages you will send to the powers that be atg the new h-p.  G Bashing other products to make your point in probably not a good  idea.t   -- Dave...h  6 If you pick up a starving dog and make him prosperous,, he will not bite you.  This is the principle# difference between a dog and a man.l -----Mark Twainm  . "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> wrote in messageC news:mFGC8.29023$GLp1.28279@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com...e > < > "Stuart, Ed" <Ed.Stuart@austinenergy.com> wrote in message >-L news:92EFB80E551BD511B39500D0B7B0CDCC0642C3F0@ohms.electric.ci.austin.tx.us. > ..B > >We need each of us to let the folks at HP know what they can doL > > to market OpenVMS better, and how it will benefit their bottom line.  InA > > other words, don't just complain, but also bring suggestions.. > >s > > EdI > > **Please apply a generous amount of all the usual disclaimers here.**r > K > I agree with you Ed, however I remain skeptical until there are full page J > ads in the Wall Street Journal announcing a full-scale promotion of VMS.J > But HP won't do that because the fools at Gartner would put them through the1I > wringer about that, and then the Wall Street types will simply echo thes sameL > crap, and then the stock goes down. None of the Wall Street types actuallyJ > go out to speak with living VMS customers, especially not those who have5 > tried unix and found out that it sucks the big one.e >c >a > A bumper sticker for you:i >e > VMS.....because Unix sucks.  >M >    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 15:37:04 -0000s- From: wspencer@ap.nospam.org (Warren Spencer)-# Subject: Re: Stallards smoking gun! 7 Message-ID: <920A715EAwarrenspencer1977@209.249.90.100>B  2 terryshannon@attbi.com (Terry C. Shannon) wrote in" <wLOC8.16516$WR1.6589@sccrnsc01>:    >K- >"Roy Omond" <Roy@Omond.net> wrote in message $ >news:3CDB8BE8.FE82DBDF@Omond.net... >> Carl Karcher wrote: >>E >> > In a previous article, bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski) wrote:e >> >H >> > ->I could care less about anyone else ... as long as I have vms and >> > I i >haveeE >> > ->support, let everyone else get shut down ... I will be up, theE
 >> > company s >II >> > ->work for will be up 99.9999, and I will be just fine ... for thosew	 >> > who h >faild
 >> > ->... >> >G >> > Come on Bob, while I have a similar mantra, that's six nines or 31 E >> > seconds of downtime a year if I did the math correctly. Even VMS . >> > would be hard pressed to accomplish that. >>A >> Come on Carl, you haven't been reading Good Old Bob Ceculski'soD >> postings. He's never seen a VMS crash in the last 32,767 *years*. >l9 >Neither have I. Only started using VMS 20 years ago. ;-}- >-  J 20 years?  Me too.  But I've seen a handful of crashes.  Push anything to 4 it's limit, and it's gonna show signs of stress <g>.   ws   -- s   Warren Spencer' Senior Software Engineer (not a writer)o The Associated Press  < ** Time flies like an arrow.  Fruit flies like a bananna. **   ------------------------------   Date: 10 May 2002 17:12:28 GMT1 From: bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)a# Subject: RE: Stallards smoking gun! + Message-ID: <abgv1s$ejl$3@info.cs.uofs.edu>t  T In article <BE56C50EA024184DAF48F0B9A47F5CF401AB1F2B@kaoexc01.americas.cpqcorp.net>,*  "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@hp.com> writes: |> iC |> >>>> Neither have I. Only started using VMS 20 years ago. ;-}<<<t |>  G |> Well, having spent time in a prior lifetime doing CS support, I have-E |> seen lots of crash dumps, but the point is that there are numerousn6 |> examples of extra ordinary uptimes for VMS systems. |> MJ |> Case in point - the Irish National Railway application ran CONTINUOUSLYB |> (no scheduled or unscheduled system downtime which impacted theH |> application availability) for 17 years before being retired some time
 |> last year.y  C All the facts have never been presented on this.  Originally it waseE given as a VAX that had an uptime of 17 years and when people pointedyC out how unlikely it was that any 17 year old technology disk lasted F that long the story changed to a cluster until it was pointed out thatD the version of VMS they were running didn't do clusters.  The last ID saw was it was multiple machines of which at least one was up at all- times.  And that is no accomplishment at all.y  - VMS is good, but it doesn't perform miracles.P   bill   -- rJ Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   a   ------------------------------   Date: 10 May 2002 17:08:38 GMT1 From: bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) # Subject: Re: Stallards smoking gun!t+ Message-ID: <abguqm$ejl$2@info.cs.uofs.edu>0  , In article <wLOC8.16516$WR1.6589@sccrnsc01>,4  "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com> writes: |> -/ |> "Roy Omond" <Roy@Omond.net> wrote in messagee& |> news:3CDB8BE8.FE82DBDF@Omond.net... |> > Carl Karcher wrote: |> >G |> > > In a previous article, bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski) wrote:n |> > >L |> > > ->I could care less about anyone else ... as long as I have vms and I |> havetO |> > > ->support, let everyone else get shut down ... I will be up, the companya |> IO |> > > ->work for will be up 99.9999, and I will be just fine ... for those whoo |> faill |> > > ->... |> > >I |> > > Come on Bob, while I have a similar mantra, that's six nines or 31iM |> > > seconds of downtime a year if I did the math correctly. Even VMS wouldr* |> > > be hard pressed to accomplish that. |> >M |> > Come on Carl, you haven't been reading Good Old Bob Ceculski's postings.o< |> > He's never seen a VMS crash in the last 32,767 *years*. |> l; |> Neither have I. Only started using VMS 20 years ago. ;-}a  C While I have to admit that the VAX/VMS box in my basement has nevereA crashed (at least that I know of) and the one the students use in D my department hasn't either, the University's administrative machineC is down often and many times it is unscheduled, which sounds like a.D crash to me.  Now, I'm not privy to the wheres and the whys, so thisE could be OS or application or hardware or operator error.  But in theiB long run, it doesn't matter.  My Unix servers have a better uptime7 record even counting the scheduled downtime as outages.e  B VMS is still one of the best OSes today, but if you asked an AlphaD running VMS if there was a god, it would not answer, "There is now!"   bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   o   ------------------------------    Date: 10 May 2002 08:15:46 -0700( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)% Subject: Re: Sun to use AMD chips ...o= Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0205100715.413f170c@posting.google.com>r   Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <andrew_nospam.harrison_remove_this@sun#.com> wrote in message news:<abeb3a$9s1$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>...w  B So tell us Andrew, do you actually do anything for Sun, or are you+ their internet rendition of James Carville?y   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 04:33:17 -0700 # From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com>c! Subject: RE: sync time in clustern9 Message-ID: <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIOEEPEPAA.tom@kednos.com>    >-----Original Message----- A >From: Mark(unMASK)Forsyth [mailto:forsytMhm@optAushoSme.com.aKu] % >Sent: Thursday, May 09, 2002 5:42 PMe >To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com" >Subject: Re: sync time in cluster >e >n >l/ >"Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> wrote in message 4 >news:CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIEEALEPAA.tom@kednos.com...A >> I run ntp under tcpip5.1 on one node.  How can the other nodesw1 >> be served this time without having to run ntp?1 > K >If it was me, I'd just run ntp on all nodes and be done with it. Seeing as L >you can't run ntp on all nodes, why not set the node where it is running to7 >be a DTSS server and the other nodes as DTSS clients ?   @ Seems like overkill, to start up dce just so I could launch DTS?   >u >Ooroo
 >Mark F... >> ---) >> Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.r= >> Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).@B >> Version: 6.0.360 / Virus Database: 199 - Release Date: 5/7/2002 >> >4 >4 >---' >Incoming mail is certified Virus Free..; >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).a@ >Version: 6.0.360 / Virus Database: 199 - Release Date: 5/7/2002 >p --- & Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.: Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).? Version: 6.0.360 / Virus Database: 199 - Release Date: 5/7/2002l   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 12:28:06 -0000  From: sword7@speakeasy.org+ Subject: Re: TS10/VAX, DHV11, and Jnet/VAX.r/ Message-ID: <udnf6mrv5re6a3@corp.supernews.com>   = In comp.os.vms JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote: N > If you email me at vaxination  videotron.ca with your address, I could shipP > you an original DHV11 manual. It has the specs on the modem controls in there.M > Also, the VMS  I/O manual has the VMS handling of the modem controls fairlyl1 > well documented in the terminal driver section.t  G I already have a copy of DHV11 manual.  I know about modem control bitsoF but need know about handshakes between terminal and host systems.  For example, EIA/RS232 specs, etc.  
 Thank you.   -- Tim Stark   -- s, Timothy Stark	<><	Inet: sword7@speakeasy.orgJ --------------------------------------------------------------------------F "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that H whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.. Amen." -- John 3:16 (King James Version Bible)   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 07:49:12 +0100 ( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1>3 Subject: Re: UK/EU OpenVMS job market: non-existanto) Message-ID: <3CDB6D68.E353F01C@127.0.0.1>n   "Leigh G. Bowden" wrote: > N > Probably like me and completely hacked off with the new fads that come alongG > every six months and constantly running like mad just to stand still.  > K > Seem to be lots of VMS jobs in London but pay is not good considering thes6 > housing market and not everyone wants to work there.  F It is odd. Many [not all] employers are not willing to pay the correctF rate for an adequately trained / experienced VMS professional, yet areD willing to 'shell out' on contractors for platforms where luck plays more of a part than skill.   -- .( Regards, Nic Clews CSC Computer Sciences nclews at csc dot comd   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 10:08:06 -0500 / From: "Stuart, Ed" <Ed.Stuart@austinenergy.com>s3 Subject: RE: UK/EU OpenVMS job market: non-existant T Message-ID: <92EFB80E551BD511B39500D0B7B0CDCC0642C3FF@ohms.electric.ci.austin.tx.us>  J Although it may not help the Brits that have posted so far, there are some9 VMS developer jobs in Phoenix, Arizona with Ticketmaster. + http://www.abouttmcs.com/jobs/pphoenix.htmlt   --> EdE **Please apply a generous amount of all the usual disclaimers here.**l     > -----Original Message-----1 > From: Nic Clews [mailto:sendspamhere@127.0.0.1]n$ > Sent: Friday, May 10, 2002 1:49 AM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.ComV5 > Subject: Re: UK/EU OpenVMS job market: non-existants >  >  > "Leigh G. Bowden" wrote: > > < > > Probably like me and completely hacked off with the new  > fads that come along= > > every six months and constantly running like mad just to   > stand still. > > > > > Seem to be lots of VMS jobs in London but pay is not good  > considering thed8 > > housing market and not everyone wants to work there. > H > It is odd. Many [not all] employers are not willing to pay the correctH > rate for an adequately trained / experienced VMS professional, yet areF > willing to 'shell out' on contractors for platforms where luck plays > more of a part than skill. >  > -- j* > Regards, Nic Clews CSC Computer Sciences > nclews at csc dot comc >    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 15:05:28 GMTq5 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com>9 Subject: Re: USB on OpenVMSg9 Message-ID: <YkRC8.22$Fu7.533663@cacnews.cac.cpqcorp.net>    Got the spec on it?t  8 Dirk Munk wrote in message <3CDAE4FC.6070409@home.nl>...I >I am using a Logitech TrackMan Marble+ PS2 mouse on my PC. 3 buttons and>A >a mousewheel. Works fine ! I'm using a similar Trackball without  >mousewheel on my PWS. >, >Fred Kleinsorge wrote:tJ >> No.  I added it only for USB.  It was easy, it's just another axis on a >> pointing device.  >>L >> I've never seen the spec for a PS2 thumbwheel mouse, or if it is possible toJ >> detect it's presence (as opposed to any other type of mouse).  The PS-2 >> mouse design was abysmal. >> >> >>; >> Dirk Munk wrote in message <3CDA47D9.8010403@home.nl>...o >> >>>Fred Kleinsorge wrote:n >>>u. >>>>Eh?  What's a two-cylinder VSXXX-AA mouse? >>>>J >>>>The mouse will be a standard 3-button USB mouse.  As an added bonus, I >>>c >> put >>D >>>>support for the thumbwheel in for anyone that wants to plug in a >>>a
 >> thumbwheelh >>
 >>>>mouse. >>>uH >>>Does this mean I can connect a thumbweel mouse to the ps-2 port of my0 >>>PWS500 too ? From which version VMS / Motif ?G >>>That would be very nice, I could scroll through the messages in thisa
 >>>newsgroup.  >>>t >>>  >>>  >t   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 07:34:20 +0100n( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1>+ Subject: Re: VAX 4000/600A help needed (OT) ) Message-ID: <3CDB69EC.8187869A@127.0.0.1>    Paul Sture wrote:n > V > In article <3CDA4467.7B9BBD76@127.0.0.1>, Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1> writes: > > Luca_B wrote:   6 > >> The problem now is to find a sled for the drives. > >g > > Where are you based?  ) This went to email and I'm handling it...   J > > I *may* have a spare one knocking about but I'm in a state of upheavalK > > at the moment so I couldn't confirm for a week, or two or, whenever theaH > > dynamic duo of estate agents I'm dealing with decide to talk to eachE > > other, not that I'm bitter about it ! They work for the same firmp > > though. :-/a > >t8 > House buying tip #1 Don't trust the slimy estate agentL > House buying tip #2 When estate agents talk of ethics, or professionalism,; >                     they are going to screw you. Somehow.v > House buying tip #3 See #1  6 What has really annoyed them is we caught them out :->   L > > Speaking of which, I'll be sampling bitter in Reading on the 28th... UK. > > CUO-UK.b > >o6 > But Courage/Scottish & Newcastle? Not the best IMHO.  F There is something about the pint pulled from a brewery tap that leadsH me to believe that the bottling / canning / casking and delivery processG is to blame. There is only one pub in the whole north west I will drinku Boddies.   I quote from The Royle Family:  D Dave: "I had a bad pint last night, I could s**t though the eye of a needle."G Jim: "Where did you go, the Pear Tree? He doesn't clean his pipes him."n( Anthony: "The lager's all right though."$ Jim: "How would you know, soft lad?" Anthony: "Dad, I'm sixteen!"   --  ( Regards, Nic Clews CSC Computer Sciences nclews at csc dot como   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 08:08:49 +0100h1 From: Steve Reece <SYSTEM@ipl.demon.co.nospam.uk>i& Subject: Re: VAX Spare Parts in the UK6 Message-ID: <3CDB8011.37EB6AA9@ipl.demon.co.nospam.uk>  F Antonio's right.  Prodec left the DEC market to concentrate on network kit about 12 months ago.  F Some of their stock was bought by Phil Dombey at Abacus (tel. 0118 940 3111)f  0 IIRC, their web site is www.abacus-computing.com  G No link with the company other than being a very satisfied customer forl more than 5 years.   Steve.       antonio.carlini wrote: >  > Alan Greig wrote:- > 5 > > On Wed, 17 Apr 2002 12:04:48 +0100, "Mike Walker"0& > > <mike.walker@reklaw-uk.com> wrote: > >b > >cP > >>Anyone know of a source for VAX spare parts in the UK? I have a 3100-90 withF > >>a faulty power supply and Compaq/HP doesn't want to know as it's a > >>discontinued part. > >> > >oI > > This sounds like the standard clueless response. If you actually call G > > out an engineer at chargeable rates I'll bet they can fix it. Had a  >  > But can you afford it :-)a > ( > You'll be charged the call-out fee for% > the engineer and the full fee for a  > PSU. > # > Assuming you are prepared to swapw$ > it out yourself (and if you aren't% > I suspect any qualified electrician. > would take your money), then > get the part number (Hxxxx or"" > so IIRC) and call COMPAQ and try > again. > ( > Assuming they really cannot supply it,& > find any of the UK resellers and buy( > one - or even buy *any* of the various+ > MicroVAXes that use the same poser supplyp* > (most of the later MicroVAX 3100 range). > # > I'm sure someone will post a listj$ > of resellers, but you can start at! > ProDEC http://www.prodec.co.uk.p& > They *used* to do this sort of stuff  > but they seem to do just cisco# > network things now. However, theya# > will undoubtedly point you in then > right direction. >  > If this still doesn't work,i& > send me email in a few days and I'll" > find the name and address of the' > reseller who lives down the road fromn > the office ! > 	 > Antoniol >  > -- >  > --------------- / > Antonio Carlini             arcarlini@iee.orgr   -- eG "A shadow fell over her face; clear, as if the composure were rent likehE a veil.  And her lips parted, but only with a short intake of breath.cA Then she said, 'Well, then you are right.  Indeed, we are even.'"s% 		Louis, "Interview with the Vampire"-   ------------------------------    Date: 10 May 2002 19:16:51 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>1 Subject: Re: VMS Bigots Unite To Form New Companye- Message-ID: <87lmasfe1o.fsf@prep.synonet.com>m  * spam@devnull.com (Russell Wallace) writes:  G > On 05 May 2002 03:54:59 +0800, Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>n > wrote:  FD > >Let me give you a slight clue; businesses don't give a shit about > >'standard' they want 'work'.C  l? > For the high end, as I said, you're right; that's why pushing.8 > Windows for big database servers is a losing strategy.   @ > For the low end, the relative sales figures for Windows versusC > everything else would tend to support my point. (Furthermore, the F > biggest 'everything else' is Linux, which is also neither secure nor > reliable.)  C They buy what they can get, and that is what the 'computer', ie PC,aB shop has or can get a a good margin. Note that Linux is a half-wayC house, flush doze but still on a PC. Don't read figures, go talk too& the people who are running this stuff.   --  < Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.y@                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------   Date: 10 May 2002 16:56:22 GMT6 From: {j6F*4gb}.See@Reply-To.invalid (Stefan Berglund)  Subject: Re: VMS textfile format? Message-ID: <slrnadnutm.rre.{j6F*4gb}.See@gimli.dd.chalmers.se>j  : On Fri, 10 May 2002 01:36:53 GMT, David J. Dachtera wrote: >c- > $ MOUNT ddcu:/OVER=ID/MEDIA=CD/UNDEF=STREAM8 > I > Then, you should be able to invoke the license file as if it were a DCLnI > command procedure. If you burned the CD on Linux or *BSD, use STREAM_LFe > instead of STREAM.  E This did the trick when I added the recordsize (which I translated to- blocksize) to stream:   2 $ MOUNT DKA400:/OVER=ID/MEDIA=CD/UNDEF=STREAM:512   D (512 as it was mastered on Solaris with 512 bytes blocksize) did the. trick and I now have a functioning VMS system!B With a closer look I noticed that this is even in the FAQ. <blush>  + Thanks for the kick in the right direction!1   --  
 			/Stefan 			sbl+news@dd.chalmers.se  " Life - the ultimate practical joke   ------------------------------  + Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 12:30:33 +0100 (MET) 9 From: Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>t9 Subject: Re: What is good model for disk i/o w/shadowing?r; Message-ID: <01KHK9LO3MOY96VT0P@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>s  E You mentioned no cluster.  I would recommend a cluster and mount the wE members of the shadow set on separate nodes.  Then you are protected hF against the failure of a node, not just against the failure of a disk.  F You could have some slow machines which essentially do nothing except B server (half) the disks: I/O is usually only a bit slower on slow ( machines compared to new, fast machines.  G I believe that you have to use allocation-class names when shadowing.  eH This confused me at first, since they are really for dual-ported disks, G but this redundancy isn't needed if the shadow members are on separate lG nodes.  IIRC the discussion here, there is no technical reason per se, t0 just that otherwise the disk names are too long.  F Can someone confirm the above?  I plan to shadow disks on my hobbyist  system this weekend.  :-)>   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 07:41:17 +0100>( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1>= Subject: Re: Where do Gartner's probabilty factors come from?o) Message-ID: <3CDB6B8D.6A15A2BF@127.0.0.1>d   JF Mezei wrote:> > ! > William_Bochnik@acml.com wrote:d > >.8 > > I think they get their factors from reading entrails > P > I thought it was by measuring the amount of navel lint they get each day ? :-)	 > ;-) :-)>   Do they have navels?  G I thought their asses had gotten so big, due to the amount of s**t theyy2 are full of, they'd out evolved navels :-) :-) :-)   (IMHO) -- e( Regards, Nic Clews CSC Computer Sciences nclews at csc dot come   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 08:20:54 -0500a1 From: "Dave Gudewicz" <david.gudewicz@abbott.com>v= Subject: Re: Where do Gartner's probabilty factors come from?t1 Message-ID: <abghl4$g5n$1@fizban.pprd.abbott.com>e  6 Donno which assessment I enjoyed more; Spock or lunch.   -- Dave...y  6 If you pick up a starving dog and make him prosperous,, he will not bite you.  This is the principle# difference between a dog and a man.s -----Mark Twainm  : "Bob Koehler" <koehler@encompasserve.org> wrote in message- news:BnyuQihxUYtR@eisner.encompasserve.org...tG > In article <Xns92097C717A768falkarcabca@205.233.108.180>, Alfred Falki <falk@arc.ab.ca> writes:L > > "Probability Factors" are often mentioned in references to Gartner Group > > reports. > > Where do they come from? >e) >    Whoever bought them lunch yesterday.n >"   ------------------------------    Date: 10 May 2002 08:09:02 -0600- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) = Subject: Re: Where do Gartner's probabilty factors come from?a3 Message-ID: <BnyuQihxUYtR@eisner.encompasserve.org>   ^ In article <Xns92097C717A768falkarcabca@205.233.108.180>, Alfred Falk <falk@arc.ab.ca> writes:K > "Probability Factors" are often mentioned in references to Gartner Group  
 > reports. > Where do they come from?    '    Whoever bought them lunch yesterday.U   ------------------------------    Date: 10 May 2002 09:57:24 -0600+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young)oY Subject: Re: Write OVERHEAD in Volume Shadowing (Was:Re: What is good model for disk i/o t3 Message-ID: <Jn67FDuNveWg@eisner.encompasserve.org>-  d In article <PdtC8.18$O3.52@news-srv1.fmr.com>, sy18889@rabbit.fmr.com (Bradford J. Hamilton) writes:M > We did an experiment in our lab, with a 6G RMS indexed file on a 9G, 10KRPMmH > drive.  We backed the file up, disk-to-disk, to a "target" drive whichK > consisted of 2 9G drives, shadowed.  We then repeated the backup, using afO > target drive of one 9G drive, shadowed (single-member shadow-set).  The final N > test was to repeat the experient with a 9G drive that was part of a 2-member' > mirror set (controllers were HSJ80s).o > G > The results of our experiments were that writing to the single-memberrN > shadow-set and the mirror set took ~28% less wall-clock time than writing toP > the two-member shadow-set (we repeated each test a number of times, to attempt > to eliminate "noise"). > M > YMMV, of course, but our "results" seem to indicate that writes do not take K > twice as long, but there is *some* penalty when you write to a two-member 
 > shadow-set.  >   A 	You most likely did not have write-backed caching turned on that>F 	mirrorset.  As an example of just how big an effect this is, the timeE 	for a write to complete to a modern disk is in the region of 4-5 ms.n? 	Using Polycenter, a write only mirrorset of mine measured 1 msiB 	for writes to complete.  That was probably the minimum threshold,B 	could have very well been rounded up to 1 ms :-).  Point is, withC 	that kind of difference, I would argue writes are 300-500% faster.t  H 	Also, the real-world test of course would be to load everything up with? 	plenty of read-traffic as most folks do something on the orderDE 	of 80/20 read to write ratio (depending on global buffering and what  	not).  ? 	If you don't have cache catching your writes when using volumeeB 	shadowing, you will have big time issues.  As an example of this,B 	(they are almost out of business so denigrating an old product of@ 	theirs hardly matters) is using MTI Stingray storage and VolumeG 	Shadowing in a heavy I/O environment.  Been there, discovered that andcB 	it was *painful*.  And quite obvious it had to be the first thing 	to go (Stingray).   				Robb   ------------------------------   Date: 10 May 2002 12:21:19 GMT$ From: JKB <local@kepler.makalis.com>" Subject: [announce] FreeVMS 0.0.145 Message-ID: <slrnadnept.q2m.local@Kepler.makalis.com>-   	Hello,-  A 	The new version (0.0.14) of the FreeVMS kernel has been releaseda" this week. The official webpage is  $ 	http://freevms.free.fr/indexGB.html  E The VMS (Virtual Memory System) operating system is available only onsG VAX and Alpha processors, and in spite of its undeniable qualities, its:E future seems uncertain. The FreeVMS project tends to the coding of an/F operating system under the GPL licence according to the specificationsE of the VMS systems. This operating system has to function at least ontC I386 architecture, PPC, Sparc and Alpha processors. It is developeda using  the C language.  	 	Regards,o   	JKB   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 15:27:26 +0200s- From: Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@Free.fr> & Subject: Re: [announce] FreeVMS 0.0.14' Message-ID: <3CDBCABE.E37CAA99@Free.fr>y   C'est une blague?r   D.  
 JKB wrote: >  >         Hello, > J >         The new version (0.0.14) of the FreeVMS kernel has been released$ > this week. The official webpage is > - >         http://freevms.free.fr/indexGB.html  > G > The VMS (Virtual Memory System) operating system is available only on I > VAX and Alpha processors, and in spite of its undeniable qualities, itsjG > future seems uncertain. The FreeVMS project tends to the coding of an1H > operating system under the GPL licence according to the specificationsG > of the VMS systems. This operating system has to function at least oneE > I386 architecture, PPC, Sparc and Alpha processors. It is developeds > using  the C language. >  >         Regards, > 
 >         JKBo   ------------------------------   Date: 10 May 2002 13:31:26 GMT$ From: JKB <local@kepler.makalis.com>& Subject: Re: [announce] FreeVMS 0.0.145 Message-ID: <slrnadnitd.vd7.local@Kepler.makalis.com>:  - Le Fri, 10 May 2002 at 13:27 GMT,  propos de  Re: [announce] FreeVMS 0.0.14,+  Didier Morandi crivait dans comp.os.vms :k > C'est une blague?   C 	Non. C'est trs srieux. Je suis mme en train d'envisager un porte 	sur ppc et sparc.   	JKB   > JKB wrote: >>   >>         Hello,  >> nK >>         The new version (0.0.14) of the FreeVMS kernel has been releasedy% >> this week. The official webpage isd >> n. >>         http://freevms.free.fr/indexGB.html >> eH >> The VMS (Virtual Memory System) operating system is available only onJ >> VAX and Alpha processors, and in spite of its undeniable qualities, itsH >> future seems uncertain. The FreeVMS project tends to the coding of anI >> operating system under the GPL licence according to the specifications H >> of the VMS systems. This operating system has to function at least onF >> I386 architecture, PPC, Sparc and Alpha processors. It is developed >> using  the C language.q >> n >>         Regards,o >> t >>         JKB   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 15:31:47 +0200a- From: Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@Free.fr>a& Subject: Re: [announce] FreeVMS 0.0.14' Message-ID: <3CDBCBC4.1D2FA0AC@Free.fr>m  
 JKB wrote: >  >         Hello, > J >         The new version (0.0.14) of the FreeVMS kernel has been released$ > this week. The official webpage is > - >         http://freevms.free.fr/indexGB.htmli > G > The VMS (Virtual Memory System) operating system is available only oneI > VAX and Alpha processors, and in spite of its undeniable qualities, itsiG > future seems uncertain. The FreeVMS project tends to the coding of an H > operating system under the GPL licence according to the specificationsG > of the VMS systems. This operating system has to function at least ontE > I386 architecture, PPC, Sparc and Alpha processors. It is developedn > using  the C language.   What about APPLE?    D. -- s2   ------------------------------------------------2 MORANDI Consultants  http://Didier.Morandi.Free.fr0   19 chemin de la Butte, 31400 Toulouse, France.2 Tel.: +33 (0)6 7983 6418 - Fax: +33 (0)5 6154 19282 OpenVMS, APPLE, Computer Security, Migration plans2 --------------------------------------------------   ------------------------------   Date: 10 May 2002 13:33:26 GMT$ From: JKB <local@kepler.makalis.com>& Subject: Re: [announce] FreeVMS 0.0.145 Message-ID: <slrnadnj15.vd7.local@Kepler.makalis.com>   - Le Fri, 10 May 2002 at 13:31 GMT,  propos dee Re: [announce] FreeVMS 0.0.14,+  Didier Morandi crivait dans comp.os.vms :  > JKB wrote: >> h >>         Hello,d >> hK >>         The new version (0.0.14) of the FreeVMS kernel has been releaseda% >> this week. The official webpage isc >> '. >>         http://freevms.free.fr/indexGB.html >> yH >> The VMS (Virtual Memory System) operating system is available only onJ >> VAX and Alpha processors, and in spite of its undeniable qualities, itsH >> future seems uncertain. The FreeVMS project tends to the coding of anI >> operating system under the GPL licence according to the specifications H >> of the VMS systems. This operating system has to function at least onF >> I386 architecture, PPC, Sparc and Alpha processors. It is developed >> using  the C language.c >  > What about APPLE?r   	Apple ? ][ ? MacIntosh ?.   	JKB   ------------------------------  + Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 15:51:44 +0100 (MET)s9 From: Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>s& Subject: Re: [announce] FreeVMS 0.0.14; Message-ID: <01KHKGP61T2I984VLY@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>y   > > C'est une blague?t >=20J > 	Non. C'est tr=E8s s=E9rieux. Je suis m=EAme en train d'envisager un po= rt > 	sur ppc et sparc.  G True, but if you look at the page, there are lots of areas---such as=20eJ RMS, clustering, editors---which are essential to VMS where nothing has=20
 been done.  K Does anyone who a) is not working on this project and b) knows something=20cG about it seriously think it will get off the ground?  Something like=20-> writing RMS from scratch seems like a pretty tall order to me.   ------------------------------   Date: 10 May 2002 13:59:45 GMT$ From: JKB <local@kepler.makalis.com>& Subject: Re: [announce] FreeVMS 0.0.145 Message-ID: <slrnadnkih.vd7.local@Kepler.makalis.com>   - Le Fri, 10 May 2002 at 14:51 GMT,  propos deh Re: [announce] FreeVMS 0.0.14,+  Phillip Helbig crivait dans comp.os.vms :  >> > C'est une blague? >> cF >> 	Non. C'est trs srieux. Je suis mme en train d'envisager un port >> 	sur ppc et sparc.t > G > True, but if you look at the page, there are lots of areas---such as -J > RMS, clustering, editors---which are essential to VMS where nothing has  > been done. > K > Does anyone who a) is not working on this project and b) knows something ?G > about it seriously think it will get off the ground?  Something like a@ > writing RMS from scratch seems like a pretty tall order to me.  ? 	Do you agree to rewrite RMS from scratch (under GPL licence) ?    	JKB   ------------------------------  + Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 16:15:10 +0100 (MET)o9 From: Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>f& Subject: Re: [announce] FreeVMS 0.0.14; Message-ID: <01KHKHJ7CW5M984VLY@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>t  M > > Does anyone who a) is not working on this project and b) knows something eI > > about it seriously think it will get off the ground?  Something like OB > > writing RMS from scratch seems like a pretty tall order to me. > A > 	Do you agree to rewrite RMS from scratch (under GPL licence) ?t  H No.  That's my point.  I don't think anyone else will, either.  I would E like to see an estimate of the amount of work required.  That's just f RMS; then comes clustering etc.    ------------------------------  + Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 15:25:29 +0000 (UTC) 9 From: Roar =?iso-8859-1?Q?Thron=E6s?= <roart@nvg.ntnu.no>t& Subject: Re: [announce] FreeVMS 0.0.14- Message-ID: <abgop9$jl6$1@tyfon.itea.ntnu.no>s  : Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> wrote: :> > C'est une blague? :> eF :> 	Non. C'est trs srieux. Je suis mme en train d'envisager un port :> 	sur ppc et sparc.-  G : True, but if you look at the page, there are lots of areas---such as  J : RMS, clustering, editors---which are essential to VMS where nothing has  : been done.  H : Something like writing RMS from scratch seems like a pretty tall order : to me.  A Depends on whether it will be today's version, the 5.x version or G RMS as of 22-25 years ago (the available docs for the latter seems more . detailed, so it will probably be tried first).< (And on whether it will be a full or partial implementation)  4 But before that ODS-2 will have to be usable (soon).   ------------------------------  + Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 16:09:45 +0000 (UTC)s, From: lewis@PROBE.mitre.org (Keith A. Lewis)& Subject: Re: [announce] FreeVMS 0.0.14. Message-ID: <abgrc8$k9a$1@newslocal.mitre.org>  | Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@Free.fr> writes in article <3CDBCBC4.1D2FA0AC@Free.fr> dated Fri, 10 May 2002 15:31:47 +0200:H >> of the VMS systems. This operating system has to function at least onF >> I386 architecture, PPC, Sparc and Alpha processors. It is developed >> using  the C language.x >h >What about APPLE?  F Current Apple products use Motorola PowerPC (PPC) processors, I think.  + --Keith Lewis              klewis$mitre.org > The above may not (yet) represent the opinions of my employer.   ------------------------------  + Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 15:42:25 +0000 (UTC) 9 From: Roar =?iso-8859-1?Q?Thron=E6s?= <roart@nvg.ntnu.no> & Subject: Re: [announce] FreeVMS 0.0.14- Message-ID: <abgpp1$k7n$1@tyfon.itea.ntnu.no>   : Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> wrote:N :> > Does anyone who a) is not working on this project and b) knows something J :> > about it seriously think it will get off the ground?  Something like C :> > writing RMS from scratch seems like a pretty tall order to me.B :> nB :> 	Do you agree to rewrite RMS from scratch (under GPL licence) ?  J : No.  That's my point.  I don't think anyone else will, either.  I would     It is not exactly a one-man job.  G : like to see an estimate of the amount of work required.  That's just e! : RMS; then comes clustering etc.C  D It is very difficult making such estimates, it all depends on who is> developing and how the debugging possibilities/facilities are.  H If people should have been afraid of starting on a huge task very little would have been accomplished.R   ------------------------------   Date: 10 May 02 08:34:01 +0200) From: p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture)o6 Subject: Re: [OT] Re: UK folks this might interest you) Message-ID: <8qAWR1+wVp+I@elias.decus.ch>t  \ In article <87znz9qtok.fsf@prep.synonet.com>, Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com> writes:8 > Doc.Cypher <Use-Author-Address-Header@[127.1]> writes: > + >> You've been to GuyLian as well then? :-)r > F > Oh yes :) Putting a chockie shop on the main drag from the square to% > the station is *evil* and not PC...r > G Oh. Can't even fill up with petrol here without being confronted with aeO gazillion varieties of chocolate. Go to a proper shop and the choice is endless  :-)n  G > One of my daughters was born at the St Niklaas Hosp, and that is onlynC > a hundred metres or so from the town shop. Can't remember exactlyc+ > where the factory on the edge of town is.e >  __
 Paul Sture Switzerlanda   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2002.258 ************************