1 INFO-VAX	Sun, 12 May 2002	Volume 2002 : Issue 261       Contents: Re: A nighmare for Bill Gates P Big problems upgrading a DS20E to VMS 7.3 - no devices, no serial console consolP Big problems upgrading a DS20E to VMS 7.3 - no devices, no serial console consol Re: Blade architectures  Re: Blade architectures $ Re: Bob Palmer and the demise of DEC3 Re: Capellas: Linux, Windows Will 'Eviscerate' Unix 3 Re: Capellas: Linux, Windows Will 'Eviscerate' Unix - Re: cxxlink shared libraries on Alpha and VAX - Re: cxxlink shared libraries on Alpha and VAX & Re: Encompass US associate membership?- Re: Forced migration to HPHUX - Storm Warning 4 Re: Gartner rides again (was Re: HP Product Roadmap)& Re: High Water Concurrent Users Count?3 Re: Linux will rule Capellas?  I don't think so ... # Looking for some HOME BASED PC work  Re: No new Alpha sales Re: No new Alpha sales Re: No new Alpha sales> Re: Problems changing the "remote password" on a DECserver 90M1 Re: SOT: Yo Andrew, you guys on a roll this week? * Re: UK/EU OpenVMS job market: non-existant* Re: UK/EU OpenVMS job market: non-existant* Re: UK/EU OpenVMS job market: non-existant* Re: UK/EU OpenVMS job market: non-existant Re: Who cares about marketing! Re: Who cares about marketing! Re: [announce] FreeVMS 0.0.14  Re: [announce] FreeVMS 0.0.14  Re: [announce] FreeVMS 0.0.14  RE: [announce] FreeVMS 0.0.14  Re: [announce] FreeVMS 0.0.14   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 11 May 2002 20:28:37 +0100 1 From: Steve Reece <SYSTEM@ipl.demon.co.nospam.uk> & Subject: Re: A nighmare for Bill Gates6 Message-ID: <3CDD7EF5.37939859@ipl.demon.co.nospam.uk>  @ Shouldn't that be $SET DREAM/MODE=ON or $ SET MODE/[NO]DREAM ??? :-)    JF Mezei wrote:  >  > <dream mode on> O > Rooters - May 7th 2002. (Santa Clara).  Carly Fiorina, the victorious head of O > the new HP finally unveiled today the product roadmap she has been working on  > for the past year.   <trim>   > </dream mode off>    --  G "A shadow fell over her face; clear, as if the composure were rent like E a veil.  And her lips parted, but only with a short intake of breath. A Then she said, 'Well, then you are right.  Indeed, we are even.'" % 		Louis, "Interview with the Vampire"    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 12 May 2002 11:10:34 +1000   From: Jeremy <jeremy@vsm.com.au>Y Subject: Big problems upgrading a DS20E to VMS 7.3 - no devices, no serial console consol * Message-ID: <3CDDC10A.2F129063@vsm.com.au>   Hi,   G I'm trying to upgrade a DS20E from VMS 7.2-1 to VMS 7.3.  It's a pretty I vanilla configuration: dual CPU, CD-ROM, floppy, 1GB RAM, DE600 ethernet, K ELSA Gloria graphics, an internal LVD six-device SCSI bus and a narrow-SCSI H bus for the external tape drive.  PALcode was updated to 5.9 over a year ago.  L The upgrade itself seemed to go OK, but I'm not 100% certain as I did it viaJ the graphics console (an ELSA Gloria card).  It certainly didn't crash outK with an error message.  After it rebooted and ran AUTOGEN I noticed lots of E errors from SYSTARTUP_VMS which indicated something was badly broken.   K After logging in via the console I did $ SHOW DEVICE (i.e. the DCL command) B and it was as if the system had done a minimal boot: there were noJ AUTOCONFIGUREd devices.  Aside from the system disk the only devices whichC were visible were OPA0, RTA0, RTB0, FTA0, MPA0, PKA0 and WSA0.  Yet  STARTUP_P1 was " ".   E Running MCR SYSMAN IO AUTOCONFIGURE did nothing; in fact it completed K immediately (usually it take several seconds while it probes the buses SCSI K devices).  I would have expected this to at least bring up all six disks on J the SCSI bus.  By contrast, all devices are visible from the Alpha console prompt.   I That was yesterday.  This morning I thought I'd see if I could persuade a G local PC to act as a serial console.  I hooked it all up, gave the "set H console serial" command and reset the system.  This appeared to work, inK that the diagnostic messages came up in the terminal emulator window on the I PC, but the console prompt never appeared.  I found that if I pressed the L <Return> key on the graphics console I got a console prompt there; if I thenJ pressed <Return> on the PC, I got a console prompt there.  I then tried toE boot the OpenVMS Operating System CD-ROM using my serial console.  It G printed the usual few lines during the process of loading the bootstrap J image but the last line was "jumping to bootstrap code" and then nothing. K Everything after that goes to the graphics console.  I tried unplugging the G video, keyboard and mouse cables to see if their presence was confusing I things, but then I end up with a system which I can't communicate with at  all.   Has anyone seen this before?   Thanks,    	Jeremy Begg 	VSM Software Services Pty Ltd 	jeremy AT vsm DOT com DOT au    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 12 May 2002 11:11:23 +1000   From: Jeremy <jeremy@vsm.com.au>Y Subject: Big problems upgrading a DS20E to VMS 7.3 - no devices, no serial console consol * Message-ID: <3CDDC13B.84C998C3@vsm.com.au>   Hi,   F (Sorry if this appears twice, I'm not sure if the first one went out.)  G I'm trying to upgrade a DS20E from VMS 7.2-1 to VMS 7.3.  It's a pretty I vanilla configuration: dual CPU, CD-ROM, floppy, 1GB RAM, DE600 ethernet, K ELSA Gloria graphics, an internal LVD six-device SCSI bus and a narrow-SCSI H bus for the external tape drive.  PALcode was updated to 5.9 over a year ago.  L The upgrade itself seemed to go OK, but I'm not 100% certain as I did it viaJ the graphics console (an ELSA Gloria card).  It certainly didn't crash outK with an error message.  After it rebooted and ran AUTOGEN I noticed lots of E errors from SYSTARTUP_VMS which indicated something was badly broken.   K After logging in via the console I did $ SHOW DEVICE (i.e. the DCL command) B and it was as if the system had done a minimal boot: there were noJ AUTOCONFIGUREd devices.  Aside from the system disk the only devices whichC were visible were OPA0, RTA0, RTB0, FTA0, MPA0, PKA0 and WSA0.  Yet  STARTUP_P1 was " ".   E Running MCR SYSMAN IO AUTOCONFIGURE did nothing; in fact it completed K immediately (usually it take several seconds while it probes the buses SCSI K devices).  I would have expected this to at least bring up all six disks on J the SCSI bus.  By contrast, all devices are visible from the Alpha console prompt.   I That was yesterday.  This morning I thought I'd see if I could persuade a G local PC to act as a serial console.  I hooked it all up, gave the "set H console serial" command and reset the system.  This appeared to work, inK that the diagnostic messages came up in the terminal emulator window on the I PC, but the console prompt never appeared.  I found that if I pressed the L <Return> key on the graphics console I got a console prompt there; if I thenJ pressed <Return> on the PC, I got a console prompt there.  I then tried toE boot the OpenVMS Operating System CD-ROM using my serial console.  It G printed the usual few lines during the process of loading the bootstrap J image but the last line was "jumping to bootstrap code" and then nothing. K Everything after that goes to the graphics console.  I tried unplugging the G video, keyboard and mouse cables to see if their presence was confusing I things, but then I end up with a system which I can't communicate with at  all.   Has anyone seen this before?   Thanks,    	Jeremy Begg 	VSM Software Services Pty Ltd 	jeremy AT vsm DOT com DOT au    ------------------------------    Date: 11 May 2002 14:36:40 -0400" From: jeffj@panix.com (Jeff Jonas)  Subject: Re: Blade architectures+ Message-ID: <abjobo$d9e$1@panix1.panix.com>    Andrew Harrison:? >Well tmpfs never actually does any disk I/O unless you run out 8 >of memory so it can be faster than UFS or some other FS; >mounted async. You can limit the size of tmpfs if you want < >to ensure that you don't eat too much memory or swap space.   That's clever and useful!   F I remember when first tracing the disk's block driver how difficult itD was to create disk activity since the buffer cache is not write-thru? (unless the process uses a supported control, or sync() a lot). 8 Linux seems to cleverly use all available RAM for cache, further reducing disk I/O.? *phew* The old-fashioned static buffer pool configurations were ) annoying at best, over-limiting at worst.   6 As to RAM drive abuse, I used to have RAM Drives on my' DOS and Windoze 3.1 system (for speed!) ! and kept losing a few hours' work + every time the system crashed or locked up.  --  
 Jeffrey Jonas  jeffj@panix(dot)com ! The original Dr. JCL and Mr .hide    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 11 May 2002 13:49:11 -0500  From: "JD" <dyson@jdyson.com>   Subject: Re: Blade architectures2 Message-ID: <IvdD8.522$L4.140566@news1.iquest.net>  U "Jeff Jonas" <jeffj@panix.com> wrote in message news:abjobo$d9e$1@panix1.panix.com...  > Andrew Harrison:A > >Well tmpfs never actually does any disk I/O unless you run out : > >of memory so it can be faster than UFS or some other FS= > >mounted async. You can limit the size of tmpfs if you want > > >to ensure that you don't eat too much memory or swap space. >  > That's clever and useful!  > H > I remember when first tracing the disk's block driver how difficult itF > was to create disk activity since the buffer cache is not write-thruA > (unless the process uses a supported control, or sync() a lot). : > Linux seems to cleverly use all available RAM for cache, > further reducing disk I/O. > > The problem is that Linux has traditionally caused competition< between caching and process space.   This was also a problem> on early SVR4 implementation.   There are OSes that do use all8 available memory for cache, but don't cause competition.  = This is part of the syndrome that the OS goes to 'sleep' when C doing lots of I/O.   It is better to start queueing the writes well * before the rest of the system is impacted.   John   ------------------------------    Date: 11 May 2002 11:43:17 -0700( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)- Subject: Re: Bob Palmer and the demise of DEC < Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0205111043.381d1dc@posting.google.com>  e "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com> wrote in message news:<bKOC8.15643$RR3.7792@sccrnsc02>... . > > > Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy wrote:< > > > > If is makes you feel any better Sun has a OpenVMS to) > > > > Solaris Affinity Program as well.  > N > Andrew, you have my email address. I'd be interested (seriously) in learning& > more about the Sun affinity program. > 	 > Thanks,  > 	 > terry s   D why?  Are you going to port your newsletter from "Shannon knows HPS"       to "Shannon knows Sun"?    ------------------------------    Date: 11 May 2002 11:21:59 -0700( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)< Subject: Re: Capellas: Linux, Windows Will 'Eviscerate' Unix= Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0205111021.7feaa80d@posting.google.com>   { Doc.Cypher <Use-Author-Supplied-Address-Header@[127.1]> wrote in message news:<20020511133907.28431.qmail@gacracker.org>...  > >vms is not hardE > >to understand, esp. to those at defcon ... and now they have had a D > >whole year to prepare for defcon10 ... and we will see again that4 > >you cannot root a properly configured vms system! > I > Of course you can't root a properly configured VMS system - there is no  > root.  > I > And where exactly do you think the DefCon hackers have been doing their M > preparation? I've very little evidence to indicate that anyone on VMSbox is H > trying to find expoits, so I'd conclude that the hackers simply aren'tL > interested. We'll see later in the year when its announced that there willE > be a VMS system at DefCon 10 if I get more interest from the hacker L > community - but I'm sad to say I doubt it. If hackers encountered more VMSM > systems on the internet they might take an active interest in the OS, then, 1 > sooner or later, someone would find an exploit.  >  > Doc.  C so you can't root vms, you can't run dcl or exe's from vmsmail, you D can't buffer overflow from multinet/tcpware as all you get is (yawn)E that little old accvio error (we have been thru this that vms ignores B ip packets) ... so what are you going to do, break in at night and pull the plug?   ------------------------------   Date: 12 May 2002 02:22:53 GMT& From: peter@abbnm.com (Peter da Silva)< Subject: Re: Capellas: Linux, Windows Will 'Eviscerate' Unix- Message-ID: <abkjlt$bve@web.eng.baileynm.com>   = In article <d7791aa1.0205110522.4e8215ad@posting.google.com>, ) Bob Ceculski <bob@instantwhip.com> wrote: G > > So there's not even a significant percentage of the top 5% of that  D > > community, let alone the larger hacker community (which includes< > > many of the people who design these systems), at DEFCON.  F > > And how many of the ones who *are* there, know anything about VMS?  E > they were given a crash course before the event ... vms is not hard ( > to understand, esp. to those at defcon   You HAVE to be pulling my leg.  K VMS is an enormously complex system, with a huge array of interrelated sets L of privileges. I'm sure that most of the obvious privilege-elevation attacksL in the old VMS have been resolved, but that's still a whole class of attacksL that's completely unlike UNIX... and while NT has a similar privilege model,K you don't normally need to bother with it because NT boxes are not normally K set up with any significant internal security... the trick with NT isn't to  get 'root', it's to get in.    > ... and now they have had a C > whole year to prepare for defcon10 ... and we will see again that 3 > you cannot root a properly configured vms system!   M If the system is properly configured, it doesn't matter what OS it's running: ; if it's not listening on any sockets you can't get into it.   I The trick is getting into the system once it's been opened up and you can H start to look at the possibility of executing code on it. What webserverL are you running on the VMS system, for example, and what kind of application hosting does it provide?  I AND in any case, you keep missing the hints I keep pitching you about the ( relationship between hackers and DEFCON.   --  O I've seen things you people can't imagine. Chimneysweeps on fire over the roofs O of London. I've watched kite-strings glitter in the sun at Hyde Park Gate.  All L these things will be lost in time, like chalk-paintings in the rain.   `-_-'K Time for your nap.  | Peter da Silva | Har du kramat din varg, idag?    'U`    ------------------------------    Date: 11 May 2002 15:02:11 -0700! From: soterro@yahoo.com (Soterro) 6 Subject: Re: cxxlink shared libraries on Alpha and VAX= Message-ID: <d5440555.0205111402.205454a6@posting.google.com>   5 "Duane Smith" <Duane.Smith@nospam.compaq.com> wrote : K > You can see that in TRANSITS.OPT the actual entry points are the "mangled K > names" where names like __CT__4TRANSITSXPKCPKC represents the entry point M > for "Transits".  The C++ compiler mangles the routine name to add parameter  > and type information.    Thanks for the reply,   5 Argh, then why all that documentation keeps on saying - and exemplifying 'put your symbols names' :((   # ...that's an interesting file, that 6 cxx$demangler_db... I see ALL functions both uppercase6 and lowercase (pick what you like folks), plus SOME of, my functions are mangled CXX$FnctnNm... (for5 FunctionName()... ). By chance all the names I needed 5 fitted the left column, but some names were obviously , truncated to fit the 35-char-wide name area,4 apparently the creators never expected mangled names longer than that...   4 Ok I tried that, but MACRO threw out saying all over
 the place:0 %MACRO-W-ILLSYMLEN, Symbol exceeds 31 characters2 So the MACRO creators were even more optimistic...4 anyway, I cannot use the mangled names. Do you think2 that using the UNIVERSAL keyword in the OPT file I' could get rid of that MACRO limitation?    Sorin   : P.S. I just tried to put the mangled stuff as UNIVERSAL in2 OPT, and get rid of the transfer vector. All I got from CXXLINK was:  %LINK-F-OPENIN, error opening 6 $1$DIA1:[PRODUCTS.TRANSITS.NEW]TRANSITS.OLB;1 as input2 -RMS-F-IFI, invalid internal file identifier (IFI) value  ...VE Apparently (Duane says) that thing works only on Alphas, so dead-end.h  F So I'll check the examples, maybe I find something useful there (afterD I figure out WHAT should I look for in the examples, eh I would have? appreciated a more specific answer). I wasn't expecting to find < answers for linker options in the compiler manual, you know.   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 11 May 2002 18:54:01 -0500uC From: "Craig A. Berry" <craig.berry@nospam.SignalTreeSolutions.com>l6 Subject: Re: cxxlink shared libraries on Alpha and VAXH Message-ID: <craig.berry-760C3A.18540011052002@news.directvinternet.com>  = In article <d5440555.0205111402.205454a6@posting.google.com>,o#  soterro@yahoo.com (Soterro) wrote:r  % > ...that's an interesting file, thatI8 > cxx$demangler_db... I see ALL functions both uppercase8 > and lowercase (pick what you like folks), plus SOME of. > my functions are mangled CXX$FnctnNm... (for7 > FunctionName()... ). By chance all the names I neededu7 > fitted the left column, but some names were obviouslyo. > truncated to fit the 35-char-wide name area,6 > apparently the creators never expected mangled names > longer than that...t  F It's not that they didn't expect them or that they couldn't produce a G report with more room in the left column, it's that they made sure the  F symbol names as seen by the linker do not exceed 31 characters, which F is the maximum the linker can handle.  I think you get something like G the first part of the symbol name plus a checksum of the rest but also vC the standard C++ external name encoding.  It's all described right   here:t  I <http://www.openvms.compaq.com/commercial/cplus/alpha_doc/ugvimpl.html#exb t_nm_encode_sec>   Also see $ HELP CXX/NAMES?  6 > Ok I tried that, but MACRO threw out saying all over > the place:2 > %MACRO-W-ILLSYMLEN, Symbol exceeds 31 characters4 > So the MACRO creators were even more optimistic...* > anyway, I cannot use the mangled names.   ' I don't think you have any alternative.o   > Do you think4 > that using the UNIVERSAL keyword in the OPT file I) > could get rid of that MACRO limitation?d  C MACRO is just preventing you from sending ambiguous symbols to the y linker.g   ------------------------------    Date: 11 May 2002 18:17:45 -0700, From: srp336@getcoactive.com (Steve Pfister)/ Subject: Re: Encompass US associate membership?y= Message-ID: <45126e60.0205111717.268afc11@posting.google.com>3  F Since I posted my original message, I have gotten a response back fromC the person listed on the Encompass US site as being the contact for B membership. It was actually from a slightly different address than@ that which was listed, so maybe that was an old email that isn't checked all that often.   F She said she was entering me in a database, and it'd get my membershipD information in a day or two. I don't know if that was a business day1 or two, or not, so I'll check back mid-next week.n  @ I was just worried that, with the merger going on, the associateB program might be shut down, and they hadn't gotten to updating the	 site yet.o   Thanks!_   ------------------------------    Date: 11 May 2002 11:13:58 -0700( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)6 Subject: Re: Forced migration to HPHUX - Storm Warning= Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0205111013.6ae2fc17@posting.google.com>o  t kaplow_r@eisner.encompasserve.org.mars (Bob Kaplow) wrote in message news:<SP+NWY65QfNY@eisner.encompasserve.org>...s > In article <kL9C8.12$ne6.276675@cacnews.cac.cpqcorp.net>, "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> writes:sL > > Hmmm.  You must have lost your way and found yourself in a VMS newsgroupP > > instead of a Tru64 newsgroup.  The guys on the 3rd floor will be working forP > > the next several years to move Tru64 features into HP-UX, and provide a easyN > > migration to it from Tru64.  And of course, Tru64 will continue to be sold, > > through 2006, and supported much longer. > > O > > There isn't any "forced migration" of VMS customers to HP-UX, although if aiO > > VMS customer wants to move to a UNIX, we will certainly have tools and helpr > > for them to move to HP-UX. > N > ROTFL! Around our office HP is known as "hourly patches". For two years, oneF > of my colleagues installed more HPUX patches EVERY WEEKEND than I'veJ > installed VMS 7.2 patches in THREE YEARS. We've got VMS, Tru64, and HPUXN > boxes side by side. THe only reason we run HPUX is to support apps that onlyM > run there. If we wanted to be all HPUX we'd have gotten a lobotomy and donei > that to start with.t > " > IBM is looking better every day. >   @ hp ... hourly patches ... that's a good one!  Maybe you ought to( mail this post to Scott Stallard ...  :)   ------------------------------    Date: 11 May 2002 11:39:44 -0700( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)= Subject: Re: Gartner rides again (was Re: HP Product Roadmap)m= Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0205111039.690a118d@posting.google.com>   h koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) wrote in message news:<kY9w4g89UB0Y@eisner.encompasserve.org>...j > In article <d7791aa1.0205091718.4e93061e@posting.google.com>, bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski) writes: > B > > I would much rather be using vms, and when the mozilla browser8 > > becomes stable, that just may be the alternative to  > > Internet Exploder! : > 7 >    So join Encompasserve, get on EISNER, and use VMS.o  " what or who in the heck is eisner?   ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 12 May 2002 04:26:03 GMT / From: "Richard L. Dyson" <rick-dyson@uiowa.edu>d/ Subject: Re: High Water Concurrent Users Count?n) Message-ID: <3CDDEEF9.34976D1F@uiowa.edu>E   Tom Simpson wrote: > L > Not unless all of your users connect via telnet.  TCPIP keeps a max telnet > session number.o  G Hmm... That is actually true here except for when I happen to be in the M machine room at the only LAT terminal we still use...  Off by 1 or 2 won't be L a problem.  It is just a request I've been asked to provide an answer for to managers...    rick   > > Rick Dyson wrote:n > > >cT > > > Is there any counter that can be grabbed via lexical or program API that wouldU > > > hold the highest number of concurrent users on an OpenVMS node or cluster since   > > > the last reboot?  Or ever?   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 12 May 2002 06:17:29 +0200t2 From: martin@radiogaga.harz.de (Martin Vorlaender)< Subject: Re: Linux will rule Capellas?  I don't think so ...; Message-ID: <3cddecd9.524144494f47414741@radiogaga.harz.de>u  # GreyCloud (cumulus@mist.com) wrote:a > Bob Ceculski wrote: 9 > > this is just one post of text form the almost nonstopl( > > security breaches on the linux board ...t, > > From: Luke Vogel (luke@bell-bird.com.au)$ > > Subject: Re: Panic! Who is vcsa?& > > Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.security&                 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^! > > Date: 2002-05-10 14:45:13 PSTo ...g- > Can you tell me which linux board this is??R   --D                         | Martin Vorlaender  |  VMS & WNT programmer1  VMS is today what      | work: mv@pdv-systeme.deoE  Microsoft wants        |    http://www.pdv-systeme.de/users/martinv/ 8  Windows NT 8.0 to be!  | home: martin@radiogaga.harz.de   ------------------------------  * Date: Saturday, 11 May 2002 20:45:20 -0600 From: wra-uk-2001@freeuk.com, Subject: Looking for some HOME BASED PC work& Message-ID: <11050220.4520@freeuk.com>   Hi,d    Thankyou for reading my advert.n  tG I am looking for some work that I can do in the comfort of my own home.e   . I am NOT interested in ANY of the following :-  c MLMT Network Marketing- Door-to-Door Sales Pay To EMail Pay To Surf0
 Pay To SMS Selling Of Web Sites Recruiting PeopleR Stuffing Envelopes
 Craft Work Typing  $E I am looking for a Job that I can do using my PC and get paid for it.y  e' Do you need a Web Site putting togther?e4 Do you need some special database software writing ?% Do you need a Mailing List creating ? ( Do you need any PC based research done ?   5 I DON'T and WILL NOT pay anthing for kits, tools etc.   f My main skills are :-   s Sybase
 Power Buildero Clipper  Visual Basic
 Visual Foxprot HTML ASPv Word Access Excelc  eM If you have anything that may be of interest to me, then please get in touch.o   ` Please reply to me direct and not via the group. Please remember to take out the words 'NOSPAM'.  d Thanks  s Wayneu UK   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 11 May 2002 14:43:48 -0500s& From: "Dave Gudewicz" <k9jdk@arrl.net> Subject: Re: No new Alpha sales 8 Message-ID: <3cdd747e$0$3574$1dc6e903@news.corecomm.net>  K Where did you get the facts to support this idea?  And what policy by HP to( immediately E send all new customers to HP-UX?  Can you show us this policy please?e   Dave...a  : "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message& news:3CDD55B4.128575AF@videotron.ca...K > I just realised the impact of the policy by HP to immediatly send all neweF > customers to HO-UX on PA-RISC and keep Alpha for existing customers. >WK > In the past, the VMS engineers were bragging here about how VMS continueds toF > get new customers. And this influx of new customers would reduce the	 impact ofoK > customers leaving VMS. And Marcello's short lived renaissance proved that  you.6 > could turn VMS around with a small marketing budget. >iH > However, if HP is to steer all new customers to HP-UX, even to PA-RISC untiltC > IA64 is commercially viable, that would leave VMS without any news customers atK > least until it is commercially viable on IA64 (eg: speed is not a joke vso Alpha).  >uF > If, for the next 3-4 years, VMS gets no new sales, combined with the messagesL > that HP is sending to the remaining VMS customers, wouldn't that give HP'sK > accountants the right ammunition to write a report stating that VMS is nof@ > longer profitable/viable and could/should/must be terminated ? >eG > Note that for accountants, they don't want to wait until the previouss years'seI > number show VMS didn't make a profit. They will probably project a date  where-J > they expect VMS to no longer be profitable and then make sure that it is > killed beforehand. > L > Because of this, HP may very well decided to kill VMS before it is given a* > chance to attract new customers on IA64. >nI > After all, exsiting customers will want to stay on the faster Alpha andc won't>J > be in a hurry to migrate to IA64. So if HP doesn't market VMS,  sales on IA64; > will be dismal and again, another opportunity to kill it.o >mL > VMS is set to fail. Until IA64 is commercially viable and fast enough,  HP. > must allow sales of Alphas to new customers. >gH > When you put all the stuff together, it is a too carefully constructed multieL > faceted plan to be considered just a "mistake".  HP clearly has a strategy for-  > VMS, and it isn't one we like.   ------------------------------    Date: 11 May 2002 16:31:19 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)e Subject: Re: No new Alpha salese3 Message-ID: <CfGNTuWrf0U7@eisner.encompasserve.org>S  a In article <3cdd747e$0$3574$1dc6e903@news.corecomm.net>, "Dave Gudewicz" <k9jdk@arrl.net> writes: M > Where did you get the facts to support this idea?  And what policy by HP toh
 > immediatelywG > send all new customers to HP-UX?  Can you show us this policy please?c > 	 > Dave...o > < > "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message( > news:3CDD55B4.128575AF@videotron.ca...L >> I just realised the impact of the policy by HP to immediatly send all newG >> customers to HO-UX on PA-RISC and keep Alpha for existing customers.n  > Perhaps JF is just reflecting the effect it has had on his own< purchasing policies, and does not realize that others feel a bit differently :-)u   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 11 May 2002 23:39:22 GMTs* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> Subject: Re: No new Alpha salesnB Message-ID: <KYhD8.147245$v7.13578933@bin6.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>  1 "Dave Gudewicz" <k9jdk@arrl.net> wrote in messagem2 news:3cdd747e$0$3574$1dc6e903@news.corecomm.net...J > Where did you get the facts to support this idea?  And what policy by HP to
 > immediatelyeG > send all new customers to HP-UX?  Can you show us this policy please?   L No problem, though for someone who has been as involved in these discussionsD as you have been I'd have expected you to have been familiar with it already.  # Check out the HP product roadmap atb  4 http://www.hp.com/hpinfo/newsroom/press/07may02b.htm  # In it, you will find the following:-   <quote>$  J Decision: HP will continue with the previously published roadmaps for bothL PA-RISC and AlphaServer systems. HP will continue development of the PA-8800I and PA-8900 processors, as well as the EV7 and EV79 Alpha processors. TheaH roles of these two families will be quite different. The PA-RISC serversD will be targeted at the PA-RISC installed base *and all new businessH opportunities* [emphasis added for clarity]. AlphaServer systems will beL primarily focused on the Alpha installed base and high-performance technical
 computing.  L Rationale: We want to reinforce our commitment to our customers by followingK the roadmaps we had already established. We're leading with PA-RISC for newpK business opportunities for two reasons: First, the PA-RISC systems will, inlH most cases, be upgradeable in the box to future Itanium microprocessors.+ Second, HP-UX is the long-term UNIX for HP.m   </quote>  L Note that the above occurs in a server-generic section, not a Tru64-specificK section, so it does appear to apply to VMS as well as to Tru64.  Of course, J VMS's only appearance in the roadmap under a Unix section suggests that HP# may not know the difference anyway.a   - bill   ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 12 May 2002 04:33:51 GMTd/ From: "Richard L. Dyson" <rick-dyson@uiowa.edu>'G Subject: Re: Problems changing the "remote password" on a DECserver 90Mt) Message-ID: <3CDDF0CE.310B042E@uiowa.edu>u  E From a recent service call to CSC, they have confirmed that DNAS v2.4 F released March 2001 does indeed have a bug in the module that sets theL REMOTE PASSWORD.  It can not be modified and stays at the default value.  ItK apparently is in the software for WWENG2 and MNENG2 for DECServer 900TM andaK DECServer 90M (and maybe others too, I don't know first hand about anythingo more than those two.)   L I have seen a fix for this, but I have been told you need a support contractL for DNAS to get the fix.  I hope this is made available to everyone, whetherI they have a support contract or not but of course it is not my call... :)U   Rick   "Joel A. Perison" wrote: > < > "Richard L. Dyson" <rickdyson@mchsi.com> wrote in message B > > > Rick - You should be able to set up your unit so that telnetK > > > connections to port 20 are prompted ("#") for a password.  Here's theD+ > > > sequence of steps that worked for me:  > > > I > > > CHANGE SERVER REMOTE PASSWORD &#8220;password&#8221;    (default ise
 > > > ACCESS)_   ------------------------------    Date: 11 May 2002 11:56:36 -0700( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski): Subject: Re: SOT: Yo Andrew, you guys on a roll this week?= Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0205111056.679acb93@posting.google.com>n   Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <andrew_nospam.harrison_remove_this@sun#.com> wrote in message news:<abeb3a$9s1$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>...e    B So tell us Andrew, do you actually do anything for Sun, or are you+ their internet rendition of James Carville?)   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 11 May 2002 21:18:46 +0100n1 From: Steve Reece <SYSTEM@ipl.demon.co.nospam.uk>w3 Subject: Re: UK/EU OpenVMS job market: non-existantd6 Message-ID: <3CDD8AB6.5E193E14@ipl.demon.co.nospam.uk>  E I can also confirm that VMS vacancies in the UK are VERY quiet.  SomebG vacancies seem to be advertised just to get CVs in with no real vacancy. existing at all!  D Others get advertised but then go back to being filled internally so# that companies save on agency fees.t  G Stuff I've seen in the last few days require Rolfe and Nolan experienceuG (whatever that is) or else require something else that your average VMSr# Sys Mgr or Sys Admin wouldn't have.o   Steve.       Nic Clews wrote: >  > "Leigh G. Bowden" wrote: > >SP > > Probably like me and completely hacked off with the new fads that come alongI > > every six months and constantly running like mad just to stand still.m > > M > > Seem to be lots of VMS jobs in London but pay is not good considering the 8 > > housing market and not everyone wants to work there. > H > It is odd. Many [not all] employers are not willing to pay the correctH > rate for an adequately trained / experienced VMS professional, yet areF > willing to 'shell out' on contractors for platforms where luck plays > more of a part than skill. >  > --* > Regards, Nic Clews CSC Computer Sciences > nclews at csc dot com0   -- 4G "A shadow fell over her face; clear, as if the composure were rent like0E a veil.  And her lips parted, but only with a short intake of breath. A Then she said, 'Well, then you are right.  Indeed, we are even.'"L% 		Louis, "Interview with the Vampire"c   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 11 May 2002 21:26:23 +0100X1 From: Steve Reece <SYSTEM@ipl.demon.co.nospam.uk>a3 Subject: Re: UK/EU OpenVMS job market: non-existant 6 Message-ID: <3CDD8C7E.5921B6BD@ipl.demon.co.nospam.uk>    I hate to disagree JF, but I do.  E The decision of HP will make little difference to the places that aretH locked into VMS for some time to come.  If an organization likes VMS andF wants to use it then the setup that they have now will still stand forD the period that they have support from HP.  Those organizations thatG wish to move from VMS have already started, regardless of the HP mergers" proposals, never mind the outcome.  ; VMS business to new customers grew by 17% last year.  ThesecC organisations aren't going to just drop their kit and run to Sun orpB IBM.  The companies that have dropped VMS (like at least two of myD former employers) already have their plans well progressed and being implemented.   Steve.     JF Mezei wrote:I >  > Chris Bardell wrote:G > > Any light at the end of the tunnel / recession / whatever? Or is ityF > > that, by & large, OpenVMS boxes just run too damn well and require > > less staff?u > L > My take is that everything is on hold pending a clear statement from HP on > where VMS is or isn't going. > O > The current public information from early merger  is is that "HP is committed-N > to supporting its commitments to customers" means simply that it is business: > as usual with VMS ignored and not marketed (slow death). > L > If HP makes a VERY VERY CLEAR statement indicating a real change in policyP > (increased marketing, leverage the product, expand its target markets), then I. > suspect that you'll see a nice boost in VMS. > N > If HP makes a wishy washy statement of "we'll support our existing customersM > and will continue the port to IA64", then VMS will continue to be lethargictR > since that is business as usual and besides nobody is really interested in IA64.   --  G "A shadow fell over her face; clear, as if the composure were rent like E a veil.  And her lips parted, but only with a short intake of breath. A Then she said, 'Well, then you are right.  Indeed, we are even.'"y% 		Louis, "Interview with the Vampire"t   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 11 May 2002 23:11:04 GMT1* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>3 Subject: Re: UK/EU OpenVMS job market: non-existantoB Message-ID: <cyhD8.180367$Lj.14449597@bin4.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>  > "Steve Reece" <SYSTEM@ipl.demon.co.nospam.uk> wrote in message0 news:3CDD8C7E.5921B6BD@ipl.demon.co.nospam.uk...   ....  6 > VMS business to new customers grew by 17% last year.  G Not to rain unduly on your parade, but that may not mean all that much.Y  L Back in the good old days (when VMS was just being ignored rather than beingJ savaged by things like the death warrant on its only current platform plusH merger uncertainties), new customers arrived (according to Terry) at theG rate of about 15% annually, which just about balanced existing-customer I attrition.  In those days, VMS systems were pulling down about $4 billionn( annually, about 20% of which was profit.  D Now, even if that new-customer stat was revenue rather than simply aK customer count (the latter likely corresponding to less percentage revenue:AJ the newest customers don't tend to be the biggest customers), that's aboutK $600 million annual revenue/$120 million annual profit from new customers - K back then.  Recent comments (and financial reports) suggest that VMS may bebG doing only about half the annual business it used to, which drags thosehL best-case new-customer figures down to about $300 million annual revenue/$60 million annual profit.  K So a 17% new-customer increase would translate to at best about $50 million H in new revenue/$10 million in new profit.  It's not inconceivable that aG *single new sale* could have accounted for that entire increase - which@F suggests that it might be a bit rash to consider this any sort of real trend.   - bill   ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 12 May 2002 01:22:36 GMTo1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>a3 Subject: Re: UK/EU OpenVMS job market: non-existant ' Message-ID: <3CDDC6FD.4D54EE85@fsi.net>p   Steve Reece wrote: > " > I hate to disagree JF, but I do. > G > The decision of HP will make little difference to the places that are J > locked into VMS for some time to come.  If an organization likes VMS andH > wants to use it then the setup that they have now will still stand forF > the period that they have support from HP.  Those organizations thatI > wish to move from VMS have already started, regardless of the HP mergere$ > proposals, never mind the outcome. > = > VMS business to new customers grew by 17% last year.  These E > organisations aren't going to just drop their kit and run to Sun or D > IBM.  The companies that have dropped VMS (like at least two of myF > former employers) already have their plans well progressed and being > implemented.  G Um, I wouldn't be so sure. The bulk of Cerner's stuff runs very happilyt/ on non-VMS platforms. Same with MiSys/Sunquest.a  G At this point, it's their customers who demand VMS - and frequently aret> the ones who find and report major bugs that elude the vendor.  F Speaking from experience (major hospital concern in Chicago, lakefront near "Big John")...    -- b David J. Dachtera- dba DJE Systems- http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/e   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 11 May 2002 14:46:06 -0500D& From: "Dave Gudewicz" <k9jdk@arrl.net>' Subject: Re: Who cares about marketing!)8 Message-ID: <3cdd7509$0$3567$1dc6e903@news.corecomm.net>  0 Looking at this another way:  no farms, no food.  # No marketing, you fill in the rest.m   Dave...l  5 "Bob Ceculski" <bob@instantwhip.com> wrote in messagev7 news:d7791aa1.0205110502.1a22e1ed@posting.google.com... > > The more I think about this, why do I care so much about theC > mis-marketing of vms?  if hp like Q wants to keep quiet about the G > best os on the planet, then let them.  Why should I care.  As long as D > I have my support, and modest product development, and the itaniumG > port, and alpha support thru 2011, why should I care?  If every otheraD > fool wants to run their enterprise on windoze/unix/linux, let themE > crash and burn.  I will survive the coming virus storm.  I will run:G > 99.9999 w/the best clustering, security, shadowing and reliability inoH > the business ... who cares about marketing?  Those who know the secretG > of vms will be very happy.  If HP is happy w/modest vms profits and as6 > losing wintel business, then so be it ... who cares?   ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 12 May 2002 01:36:28 GMT 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>s' Subject: Re: Who cares about marketing!r' Message-ID: <3CDDCA3F.14E175B5@fsi.net>p   Bob Ceculski wrote:u > > > The more I think about this, why do I care so much about theC > mis-marketing of vms?  if hp like Q wants to keep quiet about thenG > best os on the planet, then let them.  Why should I care.  As long asrD > I have my support, and modest product development, and the itaniumG > port, and alpha support thru 2011, why should I care?  If every otherxD > fool wants to run their enterprise on windoze/unix/linux, let themE > crash and burn.  I will survive the coming virus storm.  I will run.G > 99.9999 w/the best clustering, security, shadowing and reliability in H > the business ... who cares about marketing?  Those who know the secretG > of vms will be very happy.  If HP is happy w/modest vms profits and aa6 > losing wintel business, then so be it ... who cares?  F We'll see how you feel about that if/when your job falls victim to the next round of budget cuts...   -- n David J. DachteraU dba DJE Systemsu http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/s   ------------------------------    Date: 11 May 2002 11:50:44 -0700( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)& Subject: Re: [announce] FreeVMS 0.0.14= Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0205111050.5c2dd9c2@posting.google.com>g  [ Roar Throns <roart@nvg.ntnu.no> wrote in message news:<abigfj$fu1$1@tyfon.itea.ntnu.no>... 2 > David J. Dachtera <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote: > F > : If I possessed the required skills, I would be very happy to help. >  > What skills do you have, btw?m > ) > Do you count enough time as a skill? :)e  F I would like to help, but I'm more of an apps guy (18 years RMS DIBOL)B than a system guy, and w/three young boys, there goes the time ...1 unless you are planning on porting DIBOL also! :)sD I hope this flies ... why not sell it under a brand like redhat doesE w/linux?  I would be willing to pay for support when it is done if HPt tries anything funny w/vms ...   ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 12 May 2002 01:29:38 GMTo1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>b& Subject: Re: [announce] FreeVMS 0.0.14' Message-ID: <3CDDC8A6.93B910F6@fsi.net>o   Roar Throns wrote:t > 2 > David J. Dachtera <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote: > F > : If I possessed the required skills, I would be very happy to help. >  > What skills do you have, btw?r > ) > Do you count enough time as a skill? :)s    What specific skill do you need?  D I wrote VAX BASIC code for a good number of years, some VAX DIBOL, aD smidgen of Macro/32 (VAX Assembler, prior to V6) and I write LOTS of DCL.   -- c David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systemst http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 12 May 2002 01:33:28 GMT 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>t& Subject: Re: [announce] FreeVMS 0.0.14' Message-ID: <3CDDC989.F15E032E@fsi.net>y   Roar Throns wrote:  > 2 > David J. Dachtera <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote: > F > : If I possessed the required skills, I would be very happy to help. >  > What skills do you have, btw?  > ) > Do you count enough time as a skill? :)r   One another, related topic:   F On project I might suggest to the readers is that translators from anyF 3GL (including C, regardless of how you classify it) to Macro/32 wouldF be *VERY* useful freeware items. The resulting code should be suitableH for use on OpenVMS-VAX and OpenVMA-Alpha as well as whatever evolves out of the current FreeVMS effort.   -- c David J. Dachteraa dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/I   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 11 May 2002 19:15:39 -0700># From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com>e& Subject: RE: [announce] FreeVMS 0.0.149 Message-ID: <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIOEIAEPAA.tom@kednos.com>   E Not sure what you are trying to achieve by translating C to Macro/32.nI Machine translated code is genreally not suitable for use by programmers.2C I don't think I would classify C as a 3GL. it bears more kinship toe	 assembly,eG gcc, however, has lexical scoping and inheritance, so it might qualify.    >-----Original Message----->7 >From: David J. Dachtera [mailto:djesys.nospam@fsi.net]r% >Sent: Saturday, May 11, 2002 6:33 PMa >To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com' >Subject: Re: [announce] FreeVMS 0.0.14  >e >a >Roar Throns wrote: >>3 >> David J. Dachtera <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote:  >>G >> : If I possessed the required skills, I would be very happy to help.  >>  >> What skills do you have, btw? >>* >> Do you count enough time as a skill? :) >o >One another, related topic: >.G >On project I might suggest to the readers is that translators from anyiG >3GL (including C, regardless of how you classify it) to Macro/32 wouldhG >be *VERY* useful freeware items. The resulting code should be suitableeI >for use on OpenVMS-VAX and OpenVMA-Alpha as well as whatever evolves out7 >of the current FreeVMS effort.f >e >--o >David J. Dachtera >dba DJE Systems >http://www.djesys.com/  >g) >Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page:   >http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/ >s >---' >Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.e; >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).o@ >Version: 6.0.360 / Virus Database: 199 - Release Date: 5/7/2002 >o ---e& Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.: Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).? Version: 6.0.360 / Virus Database: 199 - Release Date: 5/7/2002-   ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 12 May 2002 03:06:44 GMTt1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>e& Subject: Re: [announce] FreeVMS 0.0.14' Message-ID: <3CDDDF66.32648515@fsi.net>c   Tom Linden wrote:c > G > Not sure what you are trying to achieve by translating C to Macro/32.r  B Trying achieve usability. Source code with no compiler is not real@ useful. Macro/32 has shipped with every system since the days of VAX/VMS.  K > Machine translated code is genreally not suitable for use by programmers.o  < Don't need it to be useful to programmers, only the Macro/32& assembler(VAX)/compiler(Alpha or IPF).  E > I don't think I would classify C as a 3GL. it bears more kinship to  > assembly,e  E ...except that it's a macro language: "printf", for example, does not F translate directly to a machine instruction. Assembly code, except forH assembler directives and and macro invocations, generally does translate" directly to a machine instruction.  I > gcc, however, has lexical scoping and inheritance, so it might qualify.   G Suffix the usual disclaimers, as always: AFAIK, YMMV, some Assembly (oryE C) required, no purchase necessary, void where prohibited by law, ...d   -- a David J. Dachterae dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2002.261 ************************ able to set up your unit so that telnetK > > > connec@i}    Ai}    Bi}    Ci}    Di}    Ei}    Fi}    Gi}    Hi}    Ii}    Ji}    Ki}    Li}    Mi}    Ni}    Oi}    Pi}    Qi}    Ri}    Si}    Ti}    Ui}    Vi}    Wi}    Xi}    Yi}    Zi}    [i}    \i}    ]i}    ^i}    _i}    `i}    ai}    bi}    ci}    di}    ei}    fi}    gi}    hi}    ii}    ji}    ki}    li}    mi}    ni}    oi}    pi}    qi}    ri}    si}    ti}    ui}    vi}    wi}    xi}    yi}    zi}    {i}    |i}    }i}    ~i}    i}    i}    i}    i}    i}    i}    i}    i}    i}    i}    i}    i}    i}    i}    i}    i}    i}    i}    i}    i}    i}    i}    i}    i}    i}    i}    i}    i}    i}    i}    i}    i}    i}    i}    i}    i}    i}    i}    i}    i}    i}    i}    i}    i}    i}    i}    i}    i}    i}    i}    i}    i}    i}    i}    i}    i}    i}    i}    i}    i}    i}    i}    i}    i}    i}    i}    i}    i}    i}    i}    i}    i}    i}    i}    i}    i}    i}    i}    i}    i}    i}    i}    i}    i}    i}    i}    i}    i}    i}    i}    i}    i}    i}    i}    i}    i}    i}    i}    i}    i}    i}    i}    i}    i}    i}    i}    i}    i}    i}    i}    i}    i}    i}    i}    i}    i}    i}    i}    i}    i}    i}    i}    i}    i}    i}    i}    i}    i}    i}    