1 INFO-VAX	Sun, 12 May 2002	Volume 2002 : Issue 262       Contents:4 Re: 3rd party support for Alpha hardwad and software$ Re: Bob Palmer and the demise of DEC3 Re: Capellas: Linux, Windows Will 'Eviscerate' Unix 3 Re: Capellas: Linux, Windows Will 'Eviscerate' Unix - Re: Forced migration to HPHUX - Storm Warning & Re: High Water Concurrent Users Count? LISP for OpenVMS Alpha ? RE: LISP for OpenVMS Alpha ?8 Re: MacOS/X is the leading Unix (was "Itanium Troubles") Re: Non-interactive TECO?  Re: Observing HSx performances Re: Powered by HP  Re: Powered by HP  Re: Powered by HP  Re: Powered by HP 
 set nomail. Swapping: 3Dlabs for Elsa Gloria Synergy Cards" Re: VMS 6.2 file ownership problem' Re: VMS on http://www.windows-sucks.org  Re: VMS textfile format  Re: [announce] FreeVMS 0.0.14  RE: [announce] FreeVMS 0.0.14   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------    Date: 12 May 2002 06:58:37 -06009 From: kaplow_r@eisner.encompasserve.org.mars (Bob Kaplow) = Subject: Re: 3rd party support for Alpha hardwad and software 3 Message-ID: <dlOVKbU+DzAY@eisner.encompasserve.org>   R In article <3CD937D3.41ECF76E@sunset.net>, Tom Crabtre <tccrab@sunset.net> writes: > Randy: >  > Hardware support:  >  > Island Computer Co., > David Turner > http://www.islandco.com  > ' > Dave is a great guy and very helpful.  > <shameless plug> >  > TomC >  > "Randy B." wrote:  > G >> Does anyone know of 3rd party alternatives to Compaq for support for ; >> support of Alpha hardware (4100) and software (openVMS)?   K I knw Island is a reseller, but do they actually have FS guys who will show J up at my site at 2am Sunday morning to replace a failing KGPSA like DECpaq does?   K We've been using SMS for all of our VAX and Alpha maintenance for about 3-4  years now. Many ex-DEC guys.    @         You [should] not examine legislation in the light of theD         benefits it will convey if properly administered, but in theF         light of the wrongs it would do and the harm it would cause ifF         improperly administered -- Lyndon Johnson, former President of         the U.S.  1 	26-October, 2001: A day that will live in infamy 4 	Support Freedom: http://www.indefenseoffreedom.org/   ------------------------------   Date: 12 May 02 12:25:48 +0200) From: p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture) - Subject: Re: Bob Palmer and the demise of DEC ) Message-ID: <SZsXoZWNz4WR@elias.decus.ch>   ] In article <aayC8.5431$UV4.72@rwcrnsc54>, "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com> writes:  > 7 > "Bob Ceculski" <bob@instantwhip.com> wrote in message 9 > news:d7791aa1.0205081414.442abad9@posting.google.com... 8 >> "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote in message@ > news:<BNdC8.108338$Ii2.9712565@bin2.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>...? >> > "Didier Morandi" <Didier.Morandi@Free.fr> wrote in message & >> > news:3CD962A4.B7251AD3@Free.fr... >> > > Atlant Schmidt wrote: >> > > >M >> > > >     http://www.sba.oakland.edu/ispso/html/2000Symposium/Hunt2000.htm  >> > > >> > > ../..M >> > > After almost thirty years at the helm of Digital, in the face of large  >> >  financial M >> > > loses in a company used to showing consistent profitability, the Board  >> >  fired 0 >> > > Olsen and put in his place Robert Palmer. >> > > ../.. >> > >M >> > > Ken has been fired because he didn't want to "go UNIX" and he also did  > not 
 >> >  wantJ >> > > to produce low quality (and less expensive) PCs. His spirit was "We > will
 >> >  sellM >> > > Rainbows because they are the best PCs in the world" and this was true  > but 	 >> >  not I >> > > enough. The Rainbow has been the Rolls-Royce of the PCs but it was  > just	 >> >  too H >> > > complete and too expensive. This is to me why it failed to market >> >  (remember the F >> > > article "There is no more gold at the end of the Rainbow"). The > PC350/380 	 >> >  has M >> > > been a second try, but as it was not as good as the Rainbow, it failed 
 >> >  too.9 >> > > There may be other reasons but I do not know them.  >> >I >> > You don't seem to know much about what you were talking about above, 	 > either. 2 >> > This has not been a good day for you, Didier. >> > >> > - bill  >>B >> why don't you call him an imbicile or an idioit like you do me?D >> at least my belief that EV8 will live in itanium is debatable ... >   / Perhaps pecause Didier LISTENS to criticism ???    __
 Paul Sture Switzerland    ------------------------------   Date: 12 May 02 12:37:57 +0200) From: p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture) < Subject: Re: Capellas: Linux, Windows Will 'Eviscerate' Unix) Message-ID: <5dKy1aL2GmrJ@elias.decus.ch>   g In article <92098C765warrenspencer1977@209.249.90.100>, wspencer@ap.nospam.org (Warren Spencer) writes: 2 > Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) wrote in+ > <Z5TMGQgVsj1L@eisner.encompasserve.org>:   > H >>In article <abe4ru$244q$2@info.cs.uofs.edu>, bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu >>(Bill Gunshannon) writes:  >>> >>> |>                           and you get what you pay for! >>> ? >>> Not true in this business for a long, long time.  Or do you @ >>> really think MS Office is worth the $479 quoted on the front >>> of a recent trade rag??  >>2 >>Presumably it is worth that to those who buy it. > I > For those that buy it, I'd be interested to know if they're new to the  K > product, and thus buy it based on its stand-alone value, or whether many  N > purchases are coerced via MS's relentless push on the upgrade wheel.  Seems J > to me that some or perhaps many purchases are not based solely on stand- > alone value.   I The only reason I bought it (1997) was to read customer data. I was doing O interface stuff for beancounters and they seemed incapable of sending me stuff, O mainly spreadsheets, in "industry standard" formats such as Lotus or DB III/IV. O "The customer is always right", sort of thing. It was a royal pain in the neck.    __
 Paul Sture Switzerland    ------------------------------    Date: 12 May 2002 11:27:21 -00004 From: Doc.Cypher <Use-Author-Address-Header@[127.1]>< Subject: Re: Capellas: Linux, Windows Will 'Eviscerate' Unix5 Message-ID: <20020512112721.2778.qmail@gacracker.org>   9 On 11 May 2002, bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski) wrote: I >Doc.Cypher <Use-Author-Supplied-Address-Header@[127.1]> wrote in message 3 >news:<20020511133907.28431.qmail@gacracker.org>...  >> >vms is not hard F >> >to understand, esp. to those at defcon ... and now they have had aI >> >whole year to prepare for defcon10 ... and we will see again that you 2 >> >cannot root a properly configured vms system!  >>  J >> Of course you can't root a properly configured VMS system - there is no	 >> root.   >>  J >> And where exactly do you think the DefCon hackers have been doing theirN >> preparation? I've very little evidence to indicate that anyone on VMSbox isI >> trying to find expoits, so I'd conclude that the hackers simply aren't M >> interested. We'll see later in the year when its announced that there will F >> be a VMS system at DefCon 10 if I get more interest from the hackerM >> community - but I'm sad to say I doubt it. If hackers encountered more VMS N >> systems on the internet they might take an active interest in the OS, then,3 >> sooner or later, someone would find an exploit.   >>   >> Doc.  > D >so you can't root vms, you can't run dcl or exe's from vmsmail, youE >can't buffer overflow from multinet/tcpware as all you get is (yawn) F >that little old accvio error (we have been thru this that vms ignoresC >ip packets) ... so what are you going to do, break in at night and  >pull the plug?   H I'd conclude from the way you post here that the best approach with yourI systems would be social engineering. After all, if you're gullible enough J to buy some of the BS coming from Compaq, and now HP, then I bet you'd buy some BS from a hacker.     Doc. --  6 The bigger the humbug, the better people will like it.K ~ Phineas Taylor Barnum.                             https://vmsbox.cjb.net    ------------------------------   Date: 12 May 2002 05:44:51 GMT- From: djweath@attglobal.net (Dave Weatherall) 6 Subject: Re: Forced migration to HPHUX - Storm Warning5 Message-ID: <DTiotGxQ0bj6-pn2-6Tz3fv8hsl2n@localhost>   1 On Fri, 10 May 2002 11:32:02 UTC, Paul Repacholi   <prep@prep.synonet.com> wrote:  1 > djweath@attglobal.net (Dave Weatherall) writes:  > F > > Now I'm getting confused (no I haven't read the roadmap - too busy( > > working - today's a public holiday). >  > .... > C > > Q2. Is this conversion from endian-ness really so simple as all + > > these statements about migration imply?  > F > Really Dave. It is dirt easy, you call in you IT manager and say "WeG > are changing over to the new Foo-fucked69 systems. I want you to have  > it all done by Monday."  > 9 > He then goes off and enjoyes his holliday and week-end.  >    Figures :-)   ! Thanks to all the other guys too.    -  Cheers - Dave.   ------------------------------   Date: 12 May 02 13:48:44 +0200) From: p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture) / Subject: Re: High Water Concurrent Users Count? ) Message-ID: <+k+Mt2bDbgmQ@elias.decus.ch>   L In article <abh6ri$e27$1@news8.svr.pol.co.uk>, "Ian" <ian@127.0.0.1> writes:# > doesn't f$getsyi("IJOBCNT") work?  >  >     ' $ write sys$output  f$getsyi("IJOBCNT") A %DCL-W-IVKEYW, unrecognized keyword - check validity and spelling 
  \IJOBCNT\ $    (Alpha V7.3) __
 Paul Sture Switzerland    ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 12 May 2002 16:01:07 GMT 1 From: "Kari Keronen" <kari.keronen@radiolinja.fi> ! Subject: LISP for OpenVMS Alpha ? 3 Message-ID: <7lwD8.1363$k06.26617@news.kpnqwest.fi>   H Are there any free (Common) LISP products for OpenVMS ? This is just forD hobbyist purposes and has nothing to do with my current job. AnotherH interesting thing would be Prolog for VMS, but that might be hopeless...   -Kari-   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 12 May 2002 09:16:11 -0700 # From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> % Subject: RE: LISP for OpenVMS Alpha ? 9 Message-ID: <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIIEIFEPAA.tom@kednos.com>   F Emacs has a built in lisp compiler as well as editng support for Lisp.   >-----Original Message----- 7 >From: Kari Keronen [mailto:kari.keronen@radiolinja.fi] # >Sent: Sunday, May 12, 2002 9:01 AM  >To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com" >Subject: LISP for OpenVMS Alpha ? >  > I >Are there any free (Common) LISP products for OpenVMS ? This is just for E >hobbyist purposes and has nothing to do with my current job. Another I >interesting thing would be Prolog for VMS, but that might be hopeless...  >  >-Kari-  >  >  >---' >Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. ; >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). @ >Version: 6.0.360 / Virus Database: 199 - Release Date: 5/7/2002 >  --- & Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.: Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).? Version: 6.0.360 / Virus Database: 199 - Release Date: 5/7/2002    ------------------------------   Date: 12 May 02 13:31:00 +0200) From: p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture) A Subject: Re: MacOS/X is the leading Unix (was "Itanium Troubles") ) Message-ID: <2z2kPsavhdnr@elias.decus.ch>   c In article <3CDBBA13.DCF32F09@mindspring.com>, Atlant Schmidt <atlantnospam@mindspring.com> writes:  > Paul Sture wrote:  > O >> Can you please suggest a decent Mac newsgroup for a computer literate person  >> who is a Mac novice?  > 9 > comp.sys.mac.system isn't too noisy and folks there are  > usually pretty helpful.  >  Thanks.    __
 Paul Sture Switzerland    ------------------------------   Date: 12 May 02 14:03:09 +0200) From: p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture) " Subject: Re: Non-interactive TECO?) Message-ID: <2GGHEA+YwMwQ@elias.decus.ch>   Z In article <01KHKE1LIYR88XAV6E@dairyland.ca>, Ingemar Olson <IOLSON@dairyland.com> writes:@ > I would like to use TECO's built-in file conversion capability7 > (from VFC/print cc  to variable/CR cc) in a com file.  > ) > It works like a hot-damn interactively:  > $ edit/teco <filename> > *EX<esc><esc>  > $ & >   and it's converted my file. Magic! > @ > But I can't figure out how I can get it to work in a com file. > 7 > I've tried it with: /command=<a file containing "EX"> B >           and       /execute=<same file>                 (no go) > M > The help refers to the PDP-11 TECO Editor Reference Manual but of course I    > neither have nor can find one. > 1 > Does anyone know whether this is even possible?  > And how to do it!  > E Exactly as interactively. Here's a snippet from one of my procedures.    $ edit/teco 'p1'.mem ex$$  - Where the $$ is actually the escape sequence.   : To insert the escape sequence into your command procedure:  C With EDT, in screen mode, type <ESC> twice for each escape desired.   ! With EVE, type CTRL/V then <ESC>.   1 If you have no <ESC> on your keyboard, use CTRL/[    __
 Paul Sture Switzerland    ------------------------------    Date: 12 May 2002 07:01:14 -06009 From: kaplow_r@eisner.encompasserve.org.mars (Bob Kaplow) ' Subject: Re: Observing HSx performances 3 Message-ID: <I1ODcUv7T4vy@eisner.encompasserve.org>   j In article <6273a2.0205080751.fafd653@posting.google.com>, XNCGULCTLUMA@spammotel.com (Roose Chua) writes: > Hi!  > G > I would be doing some capacity planning on our systems and aside from F > the regular CPU/memory utilizations, I would like to see the currentF > performance of our HSx controllers. Could someone recommend the bestF > way I could get some data on this? We have some Alpha 1200 and GS60s) > with OpenVMS 7.2 and PSDC/PSPA on them.   I How did you get the old PSDC/PSPA to run on 7.2? Pay CA an arm and a leg?   @         You [should] not examine legislation in the light of theD         benefits it will convey if properly administered, but in theF         light of the wrongs it would do and the harm it would cause ifF         improperly administered -- Lyndon Johnson, former President of         the U.S.  1 	26-October, 2001: A day that will live in infamy 4 	Support Freedom: http://www.indefenseoffreedom.org/   ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 12 May 2002 06:20:03 GMT   From: cjt <cheljuba@prodigy.net> Subject: Re: Powered by HP+ Message-ID: <3CDE0991.6A81B1D6@prodigy.net>    Bill Todd wrote: > > > "Dave Gudewicz" <david.gudewicz@abbott.com> wrote in message- > news:abh80t$jt4$1@fizban.pprd.abbott.com... & > > How do you know all this?  Really. > I > Perhaps he simply takes Carly & Curly & Co. at their word that detailed L > planning would be completed by the date of the merger and revealed at that	 > time.    <snip>   So was it revealed?    ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 12 May 2002 06:42:57 GMT * From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> Subject: Re: Powered by HPB Message-ID: <Q9oD8.183813$Lj.14904602@bin4.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>  - "cjt" <cheljuba@prodigy.net> wrote in message % news:3CDE0991.6A81B1D6@prodigy.net...  > Bill Todd wrote: > > @ > > "Dave Gudewicz" <david.gudewicz@abbott.com> wrote in message/ > > news:abh80t$jt4$1@fizban.pprd.abbott.com... ( > > > How do you know all this?  Really. > > K > > Perhaps he simply takes Carly & Curly & Co. at their word that detailed I > > planning would be completed by the date of the merger and revealed at  that	 > > time.  > <snip> >  > So was it revealed?   G In the now-famous road map.  Of course, that had only a single sentence C specifically for VMS (under a Unix heading - though another portion I applicable to VMS was the statement that all new business would be turned J toward PA-RISC/Itanic rather than Alpha), but that pretty well underscores its relative importance.   Welcome to the New Age P Way.    - bill   ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 12 May 2002 06:46:36 GMT   From: cjt <cheljuba@prodigy.net> Subject: Re: Powered by HP+ Message-ID: <3CDE0FC9.C7A9EC3A@prodigy.net>    Bill Todd wrote: > / > "cjt" <cheljuba@prodigy.net> wrote in message ' > news:3CDE0991.6A81B1D6@prodigy.net...  > > Bill Todd wrote: > > > B > > > "Dave Gudewicz" <david.gudewicz@abbott.com> wrote in message1 > > > news:abh80t$jt4$1@fizban.pprd.abbott.com... * > > > > How do you know all this?  Really. > > > M > > > Perhaps he simply takes Carly & Curly & Co. at their word that detailed K > > > planning would be completed by the date of the merger and revealed ats > that > > > time.t
 > > <snip> > >  > > So was it revealed?  > I > In the now-famous road map.  Of course, that had only a single sentencesE > specifically for VMS (under a Unix heading - though another portion'K > applicable to VMS was the statement that all new business would be turnedrL > toward PA-RISC/Itanic rather than Alpha), but that pretty well underscores > its relative importance. >  > Welcome to the New Age P Way.e >  > - bill  D I noticed it had a similar level of detail addressing Linux and its $ relationship to the other offerings.   ------------------------------  + Date: Sun, 12 May 2002 11:44:35 +0000 (UTC)o From: david20@alpha1.mdx.ac.uk Subject: Re: Powered by HP+ Message-ID: <ablkj2$5pp$1@aquila.mdx.ac.uk>V  a In article <lp%C8.20531$RR3.14526@sccrnsc02>, "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com> writes:- >-2 >"Bill Hobbs" <bdhobbs18@acm.org> wrote in message8 >news:74ca5032.0205101738.3a890a11@posting.google.com...= >> "Stuart, Ed" <Ed.Stuart@austinenergy.com> wrote in messageeM >news:<92EFB80E551BD511B39500D0B7B0CDCC0642C401@ohms.electric.ci.austin.tx.usF >>...sG >> > I agree, now how do we start?  We have folks with strong technicale
 >opinions,L >> > someone with media access (Hi Terry), and a user groups like Encompass, >oriE >> > DECUS at our disposal.  We also could probably recruit the folks 	 >handlingw >> > the openvms.org site. >>G >> I wonder if HP could be convinced to resurrect the Digital name as a , >> wholly owned company.  Just a thought ... > G >Well, Digital India (now Digital GlobalSoft) has a lock on the name, Ip	 >think...  >2 >S  + Well in tha case why not use the name DEC ?E$ (Note I said name not abbreviation).        
 David Webb VMS and Unix team leader CCSS Middlesex University   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 12 May 2002 11:49:49 +0300f' From: "Gabriel Sterk" <gabi@aipm.co.il>p Subject: set nomail 2 Message-ID: <002f01c1f991$fa1467e0$2c46bf10@manai>  
 set nomail   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 12 May 2002 10:04:16 -0400 1 From: "Island (hpaq.net)" <dbturner@islandco.com>:7 Subject: Swapping: 3Dlabs for Elsa Gloria Synergy Cards// Message-ID: <udsti094afj8e5@news.supernews.com>-  F We need some Elsa GLoria Synergy 8MB PCI Video Cards (the PBXGK-BB/BC)J If you would like to swap, we have brand new 3dLabs VX1 Oxygen Video Cards in stock   Thanks   Davidh   -- Island Computers US Corp.7 2700 Gregory StreetC Savannah GA 31404a Toll Free: 1-877 636 4332  International: 001 912 447 6622i  Facsimile:      001 912 201 0096 dbturner@hpaq.net4 www.hpaq.net   ------------------------------   Date: 12 May 02 12:52:40 +0200) From: p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture)n+ Subject: Re: VMS 6.2 file ownership problemr) Message-ID: <cF75xsWfZYbY@elias.decus.ch>s  [ In article <3CDB1D7C.FB39FAB7@fsi.net>, "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> writes:  > Paul Sture wrote:l >> d^ >> In article <3CD341BC.BCAE6F19@fsi.net>, "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> writes: >> > Paul Sture wrote: >> >> y >> >> In article <Y7Sz8.8$fS1.173180@cacnews.cac.cpqcorp.net>, hammond@not@peek.ppb.cpqcorp.net (Charlie Hammond) writes:e/ >> >> > In article <3CCF5057.4C715738@fsi.net>,e; >> >> > "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> writes:e >> >> >aM >> >> >>What always goofed me up about that was because I could, the softwarelN >> >> >>did, without me so specifying. Wish I could have had more control over1 >> >> >>it without dropping/resetting privileges.n >> >> >sH >> >> > If you run with privs on by default, you are asking for trouble.G >> >> > With privs on, it is just TOO EASY to do something "bad" before E >> >> > you realize it.  I have caused myself worse problems than you 6 >> >> > describe by forgettting I had privs turned on! >> >> >.C >> >> > I have defined two symbols to turn privs on and off easily:a >> >> >g >> >> > PEEK> sho sym priv% >> >> >   PRIV == "SET PROC/PRIV=ALL"e >> >> > PEEK> sho sym depriv9 >> >> >   DEPRIV == "SET PROC/PRIV=(NOALL,NETMBX,TMPMBX)"  >> >> >iO >> >> > Other's have a "PRIV" command that re-sets the "$" (or whatever) prompt > >> >> > to something else that reminds you of having privs on. >> >>o0 >> >> FWIW, I have the following symbol defined: >> >>iB >> >> $ mypriv :== set proc/priv=(noall,'f$getjpi("","AUTHPRIV")') >> >H >> > ...which is fine so long as your AUTHPRIV string is not excessively
 >> > long. >> >Q >> Mine is not. I take it from your response that yours is somewhat longer than Il >> prefer. :-) > < > Well, what works for my username does not work for SYSTEM. > L Surely that is as it should be. SYSTEM comes with all privileges, so I don't= see that the above command is very relevant for that account.K   __
 Paul Sture Switzerlands   ------------------------------    Date: 12 May 2002 11:33:19 -0000= From: Doc.Cypher <Use-Author-Supplied-Address-Header@[127.1]>r0 Subject: Re: VMS on http://www.windows-sucks.org5 Message-ID: <20020512113319.2948.qmail@gacracker.org>s  G On Sat, 11 May 2002, Steve Reece <SYSTEM@ipl.demon.co.nospam.uk> wrote:t >Doc,4 >q >Well done on the article.   Thanks, I appreciate it.  . >There's also the web site www.compaqusers.org  H Okay, I've added it to https://vmsbox.cjb.net/vms.html. The page I wroteI has already been put up on the windows-sucks.org site, but I'll ask abouta getting it updated again.e     Doc. -- n6 The bigger the humbug, the better people will like it.K ~ Phineas Taylor Barnum.                             https://vmsbox.cjb.net    ------------------------------   Date: 12 May 02 13:00:08 +0200) From: p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture)s  Subject: Re: VMS textfile format) Message-ID: <NSs$ODSnOTvT@elias.decus.ch>d  [ In article <3CDB274D.F9D550F3@fsi.net>, "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> writes:h > Stefan Berglund wrote: >>   >> <short version>> >> What is the correct text file line endings on a VMS system?9 >> Will it break long lines in comments in a commandfile?e >> </short version>u >> : >> <longer version> H >> I'm trying to get a hobbyist system up and running but I have serious5 >> trouble applying the licenses from DECUS/Montagar.b > B > O.k. Since this seems the root of your problem, I'll start here. > I > The easiest way I've found is to edit the file on Windows/Linux down to>H > just the licenses you want. Get that onto the clipboard, then PASTE it= > into a terminal emulation session while at the DCL prompt. d >   
 And put in a a  
 $ SET NOON  N At the beginning. That simply allows the procedure to continue to the end evenD if line wrapping causes errors. Simply correct the errors and rerun.    I > I use Reflection/4 on Windows as terminal program. The "standard issue"aF > Hyperterm is seriously broken, but may work for a serial link to the! > console port of your VAX/Alpha.c >   M The advice given to me by the Charon-VAX folks was to go to www.hilgraeve.com L and grab their Personal Edition. It is not crippled the same way the the one& which comes with NT, and does the job.  H > Linux/*BSD is a bit more of a challenge as your success will depend onF > whether or not your terminal program will allow clipboard text to be? > pasted in and be sent to the host as if you keyed it by hand.  >  [snip]   __
 Paul Sture Switzerland    ------------------------------  + Date: Sun, 12 May 2002 10:23:16 +0000 (UTC)l9 From: Roar =?iso-8859-1?Q?Thron=E6s?= <roart@nvg.ntnu.no>e& Subject: Re: [announce] FreeVMS 0.0.14- Message-ID: <ablfqk$2j8$1@tyfon.itea.ntnu.no>n  0 David J. Dachtera <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote: : Roar Throns wrote:  :>3 :> David J. Dachtera <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote:  :>G :> : If I possessed the required skills, I would be very happy to help.i :>  :> What skills do you have, btw?  " : What specific skill do you need?   Language skills:  ( C (for almost everything), x86 assembly.  H (Many people may disagree on C, but C can not be avoided; it has even to: be used when porting a language of a more personal liking.4 Assembly can not be avoided on some low-level stuff)  K There will be no DCL yet, one/two people are going to start on LBR and CLI,DJ which are some foundations of DCL. (It might still be possible to join up)  D Do you know C or x86 assembly/do you want to learn one of them/both?  
 -Roar Thronse   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 12 May 2002 08:54:34 -0700d# From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> & Subject: RE: [announce] FreeVMS 0.0.149 Message-ID: <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIAEIFEPAA.tom@kednos.com>   9 So are you proposing to write the code in C, translate tol> Macro/32 and then assemble?  Why not also wear handcuffs while? you are writing the code.  How are you going to debug the code?   A I applaud the enthusiasm, but the amount effort to build a modernyC OS is pretty astounding.  I have no idea how much Microsoft has puthA into W2K, but I bet $5 Billion is not far off.  I believe Sun put-C about $2 Billion into Solaris.  The most efficient project to buildhB an OS in the last 25 years was probably Stratus VOS, but then theyF had the advantage of writing in PL/I with a relatively small team thatC some of whom had participated in the development of both Primos and"H Multics.  The importance of the high-level language in such an endeavourH is that it provides all the necessary tools, e.g., error handling, rangeI checking, string handling, powerful diagnostics, and the  ability to make-H kernel calls.  If this had been attempted in C, it would have taken muchA longer and the quality of the resultant code would have suffered.eK You can also carefully design a set of class libraries suitable to the taskm and do it in C++.o  K The L4 Microkernel is something you want to look at as a starting point, ituI was largely done by Jochen Liedtke who died last June.  The L4 kernel wash
 similar toL the Gnosos design in that it was object oriented and authority to invoke wasF passed by keys, thus resolving the mutual suspicious users problem andF encapsulating potential trojan horses.  It had mandatory access contolG capability.  Good starting point is http://os.inf.tu-dresden.de/fiasco/r           >-----Original Message----- 7 >From: David J. Dachtera [mailto:djesys.nospam@fsi.net] % >Sent: Saturday, May 11, 2002 8:07 PMT >To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com' >Subject: Re: [announce] FreeVMS 0.0.14  >e >e >Tom Linden wrote: >>H >> Not sure what you are trying to achieve by translating C to Macro/32. >gC >Trying achieve usability. Source code with no compiler is not reallA >useful. Macro/32 has shipped with every system since the days of-	 >VAX/VMS.n >aL >> Machine translated code is genreally not suitable for use by programmers. >f= >Don't need it to be useful to programmers, only the Macro/32e' >assembler(VAX)/compiler(Alpha or IPF).r >iF >> I don't think I would classify C as a 3GL. it bears more kinship to >> assembly, >3G >....except that it's a macro language: "printf", for example, does not-G >translate directly to a machine instruction. Assembly code, except forhI >assembler directives and and macro invocations, generally does translateb# >directly to a machine instruction.a >eJ >> gcc, however, has lexical scoping and inheritance, so it might qualify. >nH >Suffix the usual disclaimers, as always: AFAIK, YMMV, some Assembly (orF >C) required, no purchase necessary, void where prohibited by law, ... >i >--a >David J. Dachtera >dba DJE Systems >http://www.djesys.com/  >r) >Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page:n  >http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/ >  >---' >Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.y; >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). @ >Version: 6.0.360 / Virus Database: 199 - Release Date: 5/7/2002 >. ---.& Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.: Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).? Version: 6.0.360 / Virus Database: 199 - Release Date: 5/7/2002    ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2002.262 ************************