1 INFO-VAX	Tue, 14 May 2002	Volume 2002 : Issue 265       Contents:& Re: Alpha to ia64: where is the issue?& Re: Alpha to ia64: where is the issue?& Re: Alpha to ia64: where is the issue?& Re: Alpha to ia64: where is the issue? Backup problemE Re: Big problems upgrading a DS20E to VMS 7.3 - no devices, no serial E Re: Big problems upgrading a DS20E to VMS 7.3 - no devices, no serial $ Re: Bob Palmer and the demise of DEC3 Re: Capellas: Linux, Windows Will 'Eviscerate' Unix  disk geometry and shadowing  Re: disk geometry and shadowing  Re: disk geometry and shadowing + FastCGI for VMS applications available now.  Re: freeVMS & Re: High Water Concurrent Users Count?& Re: High Water Concurrent Users Count?+ Re: howto create self-extracting zip files? + Re: howto create self-extracting zip files? ) Re: Network device for wide area clusters F Re: new academic programme (was: RE: Bob Palmer and the demise of DEC)F Re: new academic programme (was: RE: Bob Palmer and the demise of DEC)/ Re: new academic programme and Hobbist licenses  Re: No new Alpha sales Re: No new Alpha sales Re: No new Alpha sales Re: No new Alpha sales Re: No new Alpha sales Re: No new Alpha sales% Re: Non-interactive TECO? (of course) % Re: Non-interactive TECO? (of course) % Re: Non-interactive TECO? (of course) % Re: Non-interactive TECO? (of course) % Re: Non-interactive TECO? (of course) % Re: Non-interactive TECO? (of course) % Re: Non-interactive TECO? (of course) $ Re: Non-interactive TECO? (solution)$ Re: Non-interactive TECO? (solution)$ Re: Non-interactive TECO? (solution)? Re: Old RAID 230 logical init very slow (63% done after 5 days) ? Re: Old RAID 230 logical init very slow (63% done after 5 days)  Password for Infoserver 1000  Re: Password for Infoserver 1000 Re: Powered by HP  Re: Powered by HP  Questions with fetch_http.c  Re: Questions with fetch_http.c 3 Re: Scott Stallard, forget your VMS to HP UX dream! 3 Re: Scott Stallard, forget your VMS to HP UX dream! 3 Re: Scott Stallard, forget your VMS to HP UX dream! 3 Re: Scott Stallard, forget your VMS to HP UX dream! 	 Show Comm " Re: simple disk-shadowing question& SMTP_CFGETERROR with TCP/IP V5.1 ECO 31 Re: SOT: Yo Andrew, you guys on a roll this week?  Re: Stallards smoking gun! Re: Stallards smoking gun! Re: Stallards smoking gun! Re: Stallards smoking gun!2 Re: Swapping: 3Dlabs for Elsa Gloria Synergy Cards Re: Switching the console mode# Re: Terminal Services on VMS client # Re: Terminal Services on VMS client  Tivoli ABC for VMS Re: Tivoli ABC for VMS Re: Tivoli ABC for VMS0 Re: What is good model for disk i/o w/shadowing?0 Re: What is good model for disk i/o w/shadowing? Re: Who cares about marketing! Re: Who cares about marketing! Re: Who cares about marketing! Re: Who cares about marketing! Re: Who cares about marketing! Re: Who cares about marketing! Re: Who cares about marketing! Re: Who cares about marketing! Re: Who cares about marketing! Re: Who cares about marketing! Re: Who cares about marketing! Re: Who cares about marketing! Re: Who cares about marketing! Re: Who cares about marketing! Re: Who cares about marketing!N Re: Windows 2000 Server drops off the network after upgrading Advanced  Server Re: [announce] FreeVMS 0.0.14   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 13 May 2002 14:06:53 -0500 & From: jlsue <jlsuexxxz@screaminet.com>/ Subject: Re: Alpha to ia64: where is the issue? 8 Message-ID: <gi30euk4mu2knv9cunjk9vt37el2pu1p9g@4ax.com>  , On Thu, 09 May 2002 18:27:23 -0400, JF Mezei% <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote:     >david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk wrote:Q >> I hope this is so. I also hope that the VMS engineers have at least been given P >> the opportunity to look at Hammer and Power 4 so that if/when IA64 fails they; >> can quickly say that the port will be relatively simple.  >  > N >Based on the information given by HP in the roadmap and by that guy saying heL >wants VMS customers to move to HP-UX, I am not so convinced anymore that HP( >will bother finishing the port to IA64.  C We have been assured that Mark Gorham's comments were misunderstood C wrt moving from VMS to HP-UX.  The intent of the slides being shown F were trying to say that, if a customer is intent on moving from VMS to& Unix, they want that to be "our" Unix.  * There is no push to get people off of VMS.   >   1 Not speaking for anyone, certainly not DEC/Compaq - (get rid of the xxxz in my address to e-mail)    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 13 May 2002 14:08:23 -0500 & From: jlsue <jlsuexxxz@screaminet.com>/ Subject: Re: Alpha to ia64: where is the issue? 8 Message-ID: <pn30euck44o413nj763hmiqfltigj3td4s@4ax.com>  / On Fri, 10 May 2002 15:52:13 +0200, Arne Vajhj  <arne.vajhoej@gtech.com> wrote:    >Didier Morandi wrote:H >> What is to you the main problem(s) about the Alpha to ia64 migration? > 5 >Huge business problem: when a manager hear about the 4 >"migrate from VMS Alpha to VMS IA-64" plan, then he+ >would be very tempted to replace it with a / >"migrate from VMS Alpha to Windows IA-64" plan 5 >or a "migrate from VMS Alpha to Solaris SPARC" plan.   : Even if the migration to VMS IA-64 is a simple re-compile?8 Has this manager really done a cost analysis of porting?  1 Not speaking for anyone, certainly not DEC/Compaq - (get rid of the xxxz in my address to e-mail)    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 13 May 2002 16:18:40 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> / Subject: Re: Alpha to ia64: where is the issue? , Message-ID: <3CE01F9A.83FE836F@videotron.ca>   jlsue wrote:E > We have been assured that Mark Gorham's comments were misunderstood E > wrt moving from VMS to HP-UX.  The intent of the slides being shown H > were trying to say that, if a customer is intent on moving from VMS to( > Unix, they want that to be "our" Unix. > , > There is no push to get people off of VMS.    H It wasn't Mark Gorham, it was Scott Stallard. And it was in a "fake" Q&AI section at the end of a document dealing with Tru64 and VMS. They added a G question such as "do they plan to migrate VMS to HP-UX" with and answer  basically "YES".  J I am sorry, but this was planted there for a purpose. All Gorham can do is, limit the extent of the damage to his group.  N Did Gorham or Marcello have the opportunity to review this document ? Did theyH have the power to tell them to remove/change the offending paragraphs ?   M If they had the opportunity to correct the mistake prior to publication, then L they are idiots or are fully participating in HP's plan to phase out VMS. IfG they didn't have the power to change the text, then they are powerless.    So what is Marcello/Gorham: . 	-idiots who are blind to such obvious text  ?I 	-sellouts who agree to HP's plans because they want to keep their jobs ? 5 	-powerless supporters of VMS who can't do anything ?   K If they are powerless, then the "kind" responses they send back to you just H indicate that they share your feelings, but are meaningless in the grandE scheme of things because they are there only to implement irrevocable & decisions made at a much higher level.   ------------------------------    Date: 13 May 2002 20:05:09 -0000= From: Doc.Cypher <Use-Author-Supplied-Address-Header@[127.1]> / Subject: Re: Alpha to ia64: where is the issue? 6 Message-ID: <20020513200509.30058.qmail@gacracker.org>  < On Mon, 13 May 2002, jlsue <jlsuexxxz@screaminet.com> wrote:- >On Thu, 09 May 2002 18:27:23 -0400, JF Mezei & ><jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote: > ! >>david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk wrote: G >>> I hope this is so. I also hope that the VMS engineers have at least  >>> been givenF >>> the opportunity to look at Hammer and Power 4 so that if/when IA64 >>> fails they= >>> can quickly say that the port will be relatively simple.   >> >>O >>Based on the information given by HP in the roadmap and by that guy saying he J >>wants VMS customers to move to HP-UX, I am not so convinced anymore that	 >>HP will % >>bother finishing the port to IA64.   > D >We have been assured that Mark Gorham's comments were misunderstoodD >wrt moving from VMS to HP-UX.  The intent of the slides being shownG >were trying to say that, if a customer is intent on moving from VMS to ' >Unix, they want that to be "our" Unix.  > + >There is no push to get people off of VMS.   G Why not be utterly radical? What's wrong with a push to get people *on*  VMS?     Doc. --  6 The bigger the humbug, the better people will like it.K ~ Phineas Taylor Barnum.                             https://vmsbox.cjb.net    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 13 May 2002 14:38:42 -0500 4 From: "Lucas, Edward A (SAIC)" <Edward.Lucas@bp.com> Subject: Backup problem ? Message-ID: <EF1DC894691AD5118AF000508BB85FDE034CC607@AMCLVX11>   J Has anyone experienced a problem where the backup needs to continue on theH second tape and once the first tape is finished the second tape does not seem to get loaded.   J My systems are in Tulsa OK and I am in Cleveland Ohio.  With the settings,H my thinking is that the first tape finished and never grabbed the second tape.   E I wish I new of a way I can confirm if the tape was even loaded.  The 0 operators in Tulsa are just like little robots.    Followed is are the settings:   K Magtape OMEGA$MKC600:, device type TZ89, is online, record-oriented device, I     file-oriented device, available to cluster, error logging is enabled, :     controller supports compaction (compaction  disabled).  <     Error count                    0    Operations completed	 173181679 1     Owner process                 ""    Owner UIC  [SYSTEM]0     Owner process ID        00000000    Dev Prot S:RWPL,O:RWPL,G:R,W ;     Reference count                0    Default buffer size  512 .     Density                  unknown    Format	 Normal-11 I     Host name                "OMEGA"    Host type, avail AlphaServer 8200  5/625,  yes  G   Volume status:  no-unload on dismount, beginning-of-tape, odd parity.       ------------------------------  + Date: Mon, 13 May 2002 18:22:40 +0000 (UTC) , From: lewis@PROBE.mitre.org (Keith A. Lewis)N Subject: Re: Big problems upgrading a DS20E to VMS 7.3 - no devices, no serial. Message-ID: <abp09g$qgu$1@newslocal.mitre.org>  r Jeremy <jeremy@vsm.com.au> writes in article <3CDF0AEB.994D044C@vsm.com.au> dated Mon, 13 May 2002 10:38:03 +1000:K >It's all working now.  After writing the previous message I decided to try J >the VMS 7.3 upgrade again, without restoring my VMS 7.2 backup first.  InM >other words, I was upgrading to VMS 7.3 on an existing VMS 7.3 system disk.  L >The CD-ROM upgrade gave me the option of doing a "re-install" as the manualL >said it would, and I took that option.  The nett result was that the system* >booted properly with all devices visible.  1 The DS20E is a killer machine with an IDE CD-ROM.   L We had a problem with the BACKUP command copying files from IDE to SCSI.  IfH a certain process quota (ASTLM) was too low it would skip files (and NOTL report an error!).  The problem was not 100% reproducible, but it did happen= a lot on installs of our own app (which we distribute on CD).   E After whining a little to Compaq, we decided the best thing to do was K increase ASTLM to 500.  Of course, when you boot the VMS binaries CD you're ' using the factory SYSUAF, not your own.   J For a more reliable install, you could increase your ASTLM and do an imageL backup of the VMS binaries CD to a SCSI disk, then boot that disk.  Or maybeK a conversational boot of the CD where you set PQL_MASTLM to 500.  Or if you # have an external SCSI CD, use that.   + --Keith Lewis              klewis$mitre.org > The above may not (yet) represent the opinions of my employer.   ------------------------------   Date: 13 May 2002 22:42 CDT ' From: carl@gerg.tamu.edu (Carl Perkins) N Subject: Re: Big problems upgrading a DS20E to VMS 7.3 - no devices, no serial- Message-ID: <13MAY200222420866@gerg.tamu.edu>   O In article <3CDF0AEB.994D044C@vsm.com.au>, Jeremy <jeremy@vsm.com.au> writes...  }Jeremy wrote: }>... J }> I'm trying to upgrade a DS20E from VMS 7.2-1 to VMS 7.3.  It's a prettyL }> vanilla configuration: dual CPU, CD-ROM, floppy, 1GB RAM, DE600 ethernet,N }> ELSA Gloria graphics, an internal LVD six-device SCSI bus and a narrow-SCSIK }> bus for the external tape drive.  PALcode was updated to 5.9 over a year  }> ago.  }>  O }> The upgrade itself seemed to go OK, but I'm not 100% certain as I did it via M }> the graphics console (an ELSA Gloria card).  It certainly didn't crash out N }> with an error message.  After it rebooted and ran AUTOGEN I noticed lots ofH }> errors from SYSTARTUP_VMS which indicated something was badly broken. }>...  } K }It's all working now.  After writing the previous message I decided to try J }the VMS 7.3 upgrade again, without restoring my VMS 7.2 backup first.  InM }other words, I was upgrading to VMS 7.3 on an existing VMS 7.3 system disk.  L }The CD-ROM upgrade gave me the option of doing a "re-install" as the manualL }said it would, and I took that option.  The nett result was that the system* }booted properly with all devices visible. } L }I can only assume that there was a corrupt or misplaced file on the VMS 7.2H }system disk which interfered with the VMS 7.3 upgrade, but was fixed by5 }applying the VMS 7.3 upgrade over the top of itself.  } 	 }Regards,  } 
 }	Jeremy Begg   0 Had you applied the VMS721_RENAME_OLD-V0100 ECO?  > If you never did, but had applied various other ECOs, it could$ explain why the upgrade didn't work.  G           o  During an OpenVMS  ECO  kit  installation,  names  of  the H               installed        images        are        written       toH               SYS$COMMON:[SYSUPD]VMS$REMEDIAL_OLD_FILES.TXT.  Several ofH               these file names were written incorrectly by the following               remedial kits.
         [...] H               During an OpenVMS Version 7.3  upgrade,  operating  systemH               files  from  the  previous version of OpenVMS are deleted.H               Because  of  these  file  errors,  files  from  the  newlyH               installed  system  may  be  deleted.   This  may cause the+               system to become un-bootable.    --- Carl   ------------------------------   Date: 13 May 2002 18:22 CDT ' From: carl@gerg.tamu.edu (Carl Perkins) - Subject: Re: Bob Palmer and the demise of DEC - Message-ID: <13MAY200218222753@gerg.tamu.edu>   5 "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com> writes... - }> > Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy wrote: ; }> > > If is makes you feel any better Sun has a OpenVMS to ( }> > > Solaris Affinity Program as well. } M }Andrew, you have my email address. I'd be interested (seriously) in learning % }more about the Sun affinity program.  }  }terry s  . The difference between Sun and Digital/Compaq:  > Sun's "affinity" program is to more people from a competitor's# OS (VMS) to their own OS (Solaris).   A Digital/Compaq's "affinity" program was to move people from their / own OS (VMS) to a competitor's OS (Windows NT).   > HP may be, in some sense, taking a setp up - at least they may= be trying to shift people from one of their OSes (VMS) (well, A two of them actually as you can add in Tru64) to another of their E own OSes (HPUX). This may be a bit less stupid than what has happened A before, from the persective of a company trying to make money for ? themselves rather than for Microsoft. However, note that "a bit ( less stupid" is not the same as "smart".   --- Carl   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 13 May 2002 15:24:14 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> < Subject: Re: Capellas: Linux, Windows Will 'Eviscerate' Unix, Message-ID: <3CE012DC.1BDC0866@videotron.ca>  ( Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy wrote: > 6 > This would seem slightly at odds with your Execs who6 > think that everything will end up running on Windows3 > or Linux. Perhaps part of HP and Compaqs intitial 6 > investments in Linux could be spent on getting Linus	 > cloned.   M When I listened to the HP presentation on the web, about an hour 20 minutes,  N I was surprised that Windows and Linux were not so prominently mentioned. TheyK mentioned 8086 servers and how they woudl be consolidated, acccess devices, J handhelds, but I got the impression that most of the time was spent around proprietary unix.o   ------------------------------  + Date: Mon, 13 May 2002 20:30:26 +0100 (MET)i9 From: Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>s$ Subject: disk geometry and shadowing; Message-ID: <01KHOX5JIRH895MSV4@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>i  B Members of a shadow set have to have the same geometry.  They can G otherwise be completely different disks, right?  (Of course, they have cI to work with VMS etc.)  To determine if two disks have the same geometry  H for the purpose of shadowing, is it enough if these things are the same?      Total blocks       Sectors per track     s      Total cylinders       n    n    Tracks per cylinder    D Is there a "blocks per sector"?  If so, why isn't it listed in SHOW A DEVICE?  If it is fixed, then "Total blocks" is redundant, right?m   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 14 May 2002 01:18:41 GMTc1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>E( Subject: Re: disk geometry and shadowing' Message-ID: <3CE0691F.A3F36EA8@fsi.net>o   Phillip Helbig wrote:n > C > Members of a shadow set have to have the same geometry.  They canwH > otherwise be completely different disks, right?  (Of course, they haveJ > to work with VMS etc.)  To determine if two disks have the same geometryJ > for the purpose of shadowing, is it enough if these things are the same? >  >    Total blockse >  >    Sectors per track >  >    Total cylinders >  >    Tracks per cylinder > E > Is there a "blocks per sector"?  If so, why isn't it listed in SHOWeC > DEVICE?  If it is fixed, then "Total blocks" is redundant, right?l  F Recent experience would indicate that total block count is a key item.  D The newer HSG firmware (don't know the exact revision, my partner at? work does, but he has a life and doesn't participate here) willhB INITIALIZE certain disks 500 blocks larger than others of the sameH geometry. Apparently, this is a known issue. We wound up with two formerH shadow-set members that were replaced but couldn't be joined back to the? shadow-sets due to the differing block counts (VMS Alpha V7.3).M   -- T David J. Dachtera5 dba DJE Systems: http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/e   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 13 May 2002 21:23:41 -0400f2 From: rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger)( Subject: Re: disk geometry and shadowingJ Message-ID: <rdeininger-1305022123410001@1cust53.tnt4.nashua.nh.da.uu.net>  J In article <01KHOX5JIRH895MSV4@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>, Phillip Helbig+ <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> wrote:/  C >Members of a shadow set have to have the same geometry.  They can nH >otherwise be completely different disks, right?  (Of course, they have J >to work with VMS etc.)  To determine if two disks have the same geometry I >for the purpose of shadowing, is it enough if these things are the same?! >e >   Total blocks a >t >   Sectors per track      >t >   Total cylinders        >    >   Tracks per cylinder  >tE >Is there a "blocks per sector"?  If so, why isn't it listed in SHOW eB >DEVICE?  If it is fixed, then "Total blocks" is redundant, right?  ' AFAIK, a block is the same as a sector.   I On recent versions of VMS, the ONLY restriction on shadow member geometryeI is that all the volumes have to have the same number of blocks.  I expect ' that restriction to go away eventually.i   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 13 May 2002 23:14:17 GMTu3 From: Jeff Coffield <Jeffrey@DigitalSynergyInc.com>n4 Subject: FastCGI for VMS applications available now.5 Message-ID: <3CE048D0.4EEDDA5C@DigitalSynergyInc.com>e  & --------------52014D3C35E0DB4F2B9A0401* Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit>  E I have just posted a set of modules written in VMS Basic that allow ad" server using FastCGI to connect to@ VMS applications using the VMS calling standard. The code can be* downloaded from www.DigitalSynergyInc.com.  
 Jeff Coffieldr  & --------------52014D3C35E0DB4F2B9A0401) Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii  Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bitM  > <!doctype html public "-//w3c//dtd html 4.0 transitional//en"> <html>H I have just posted a set of modules written in VMS&nbsp;Basic that allow$ a server using FastCGI to connect toF <br>VMS&nbsp;applications using the VMS calling standard. The code canU be downloaded from <a href="www.digitalsynergyinc.com">www.DigitalSynergyInc.com</a>.- <p>Jeff Coffield</html>   ( --------------52014D3C35E0DB4F2B9A0401--   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 14 May 2002 02:54:27 GMTg$ From: "Ed Wilts" <ewilts@ewilts.org> Subject: Re: freeVMS= Message-ID: <D%_D8.32963$Po6.14971@rwcrnsc52.ops.asp.att.net>.  I Clone?  Yah right...  Not to take away from the developers working on the I project, but they're a *LONG* way from even getting close to what VMS 1.0g
 delivered.  
     .../Ed -- Ed Wilts Mounds View, MN, USA mailto:ewilts@ewilts.org? "Axel Haringa" <axel.haringa@nl.compuware.com> wrote in messagew6 news:newscache$8gq1wg$4g7$1@news.emea.compuware.com... > a free VMS clone!n > % > http://freevms.free.fr/indexGB.htmlr >o >l   ------------------------------   Date: 13 May 02 20:28:26 +0200) From: p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture)a/ Subject: Re: High Water Concurrent Users Count? ) Message-ID: <uBxJZwgYz71p@elias.decus.ch>   S In article <3CDFCA40.EC9FD0C4@UIowa.EDU>, Rick Dyson <Rick-Dyson@UIowa.EDU> writes:cS >> > Is there any counter that can be grabbed via lexical or program API that wouldcT >> > hold the highest number of concurrent users on an OpenVMS node or cluster since >> > the last reboot?  Or ever?- >> >S >> > Or do I have to write something to sniff the current value and compare it withe >> > a saved max?M >>  S >> Thanks for all the pointers and solution suggestions.  I have a couple different R >> ways to get the value now and have implemented a simple one to keep writing theP >> max value to a file.  But I guess there is not already this 'high water mark'& >> value stored somewhere by VMS then? > O > I have noticed the apparent discrepency between "Set Logins /Interactive" vs.e< > "Show Users" vs. "Finger".  For instance, right now I get: > 6 > Set Logins/Inter ==> current interactive value = 177 > Sys$GL_IJobCnt   ==> 177N > Show Users       ==> Total number of users = 110,  number of processes = 1897 > Finger (Penn St) ==> 120 interactive users in clusters > Show System      ==> 422 > M > This is in a cluster where all but 5 of the processes (from show users) are P > on the primary node.  I know there are loose interpretations of "users" withinR > the O/S.  Do you count "humans" or "logins"?  What about sub/detatched processesP > from a human.  Is it discreate "terminal" sessions that matter?  Etc.  OpenVMS, > "system" processes are not counted, right? > N > Any simple explanation for the wide variation of the above results?  In yourR > opinion, is the first one the most accurate measure of discrete humans accessing
 > the system?r >   L I suppose the "correct" value would be the one used by LOGINOUT.EXE to checkL that n-user license limits are enforced. Sorry, dunno which one of the above that is.  J OTOH, if you have a fairly static number of non-user processes, you can do  ,   $ @sys$update:autogen savparams savparams   G and look in the resulting SYS$SYSROOT:[SYSEXE]AGEN$FEEDBACK.DAT for thet4 PROCESSES_PEAK value (on line 9 on this V7.3 Alpha)   M The advantage of using this figure is that it represents the *peak* level and , saves you continuous or snapshot monitoring.   __   Paul Sture   Switzerlandv   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 14 May 2002 10:59:47 +1000 / From: "Phil Howell" <phowell@snowyhydro.com.au> / Subject: Re: High Water Concurrent Users Count?t. Message-ID: <ilZD8.75$C4.24940@ozemail.com.au>  8 "Richard D. Piccard" <piccard@ohio.edu> wrote in message" news:3CDFC377.99A702DE@ohio.edu... >>J > That sounds interesting, but I suspect some systems usage patterns wouldG > involve brief residence in DCL during execution of LOGIN.COM and thenPH > immediate execution of a particular application.  Does DCL still countD > as being concurrently shared, from INSTALL's point of view, duringG > execution of an application that was initiated from DCL by any of theo> > several methods (e.g., RUN, MCR, or foreign command symbol)?D Any user process that has dcl as its command line interpreter should/ map to the dcltables image until it terminates.  Phil   ------------------------------   Date: 13 May 02 20:35:40 +0200) From: p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture)r4 Subject: Re: howto create self-extracting zip files?) Message-ID: <Eh45b9OwHU+N@elias.decus.ch>9  W In article <3CDFD00A.6060205@tsoft-inc.com>, David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> writes:b > Larry Kilgallen wrote: > ^ >> In article <3CDF03AF.6FDC6787@fsi.net>, "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> writes: >> y >>>Larry Kilgallen wrote:d >>> U >>>>In article <3CDE70E5.9AAC831D@nac.net>, "Wayne W. Scott" <wscott@nac.net> writes:  >>>> >>>>6 >>>>>So I came here for guidance.  Any advice, please? >>>>>tD >>>>Use of self-extracting archives introduces a procedural security >>>>vulnerability. >>>>6 >>>I guess that includes the downloadable DCXEXEs, eh? >>>, >> n: >> I don't know those, because I do not download software. >> lE >> For those who do, however, you should decode it with a decoder youcD >> already possess, like VMSTAR, UNZIP, BACKUP, etc. rather than oneD >> provided by the same person who provided you the data (who may or- >> may not be the individual you hope it is).D >>   >  >  > An excellant suggestion. > P > I would add, use a totally non-priv user account, and a scratch disk if one's O > available.  For best results, the user account would not have write privs (a "@ > directory) on the system disk.  The more paranoia, the better. >   L I do that for my surfing. A non-privileged user account, no other members in the same group.-  N > However, should you believe in the invincibility of VMS security, the tooth P > fairy, and such, the use of such a non-prived user account should be adequate ; > protection against any executable you run on your system.> > P > Having a 'drop dead', restorable from backup, stand alond VMS system for just P > such purposes is the best option.  That's my procedure.  (Now if only I had a N > rather large and strong person with a club standing behind me at all times, I > insuring that I didn't bypass proclaimed procedures at times ....)  :-)i >  Good point.t   __
 Paul Sture Switzerland    ------------------------------    Date: 13 May 2002 17:05:44 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)s4 Subject: Re: howto create self-extracting zip files?3 Message-ID: <TWerXf103e2c@eisner.encompasserve.org>D  v In article <20020513162257.21763.qmail@gacracker.org>, Doc.Cypher <Use-Author-Supplied-Address-Header@[127.1]> writes:@ > On 13 May 2002, Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) wrote: >  > <snip> > G >>The moment I unpack the archive is not the moment I want to trust the G >>code from this other source.  Using an external extraction utility iseE >>a way to delay relying on what came in the mysterious bundle.  If ItF >>found a copy of BACKUP.EXE that was 14 blocks in size, for instance,F >>I might be suspicious.  There are other tests I might apply as well,E >>but certainly I am not going to announce them all here so everybody.I >>can make schemes for that day in the distant future when I might accept., >>software transferred over the Internet :-) >   > Larry, I'm a little curious... > M > Since you trust media delivered (albeit indirectly) from VMS Engineering on-M > CD, would you take material that, for example, was digitally signed by HoffaM > and transferred across the internet? This would rule out the possibility of- > in-transit tampering.e  K Certainly digital signatures would be a solution, and I remember discussingsF that with DEC folk at DECUS 10 years ago.  Obviously it has not been a- priority item compared to selling Windows :-)-  B As to whether Steve Hoffman's signature would be adequate, I wouldA expect the signature would be associated with a certificate for anB known role, backed up by a normal X.509 certificate hierarchy.  IfE Steve Hoffman happened to be the person signing that, it likely would>3 not have his name attached, so we would never know.t   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 13 May 2002 23:42:22 GMTa. From: peter@langstoeger.at (Peter LANGSTOEGER)2 Subject: Re: Network device for wide area clusters3 Message-ID: <ybYD8.64522$5a4.848943@news.chello.at>i  _ In article <200205131408.QAA01705@sinet1.fom.fgan.de>, Rudolf Wingert <win@fom.fgan.de> writes:sD >we do use the SmartSwitchRouter from Cabletron within our Alpha/VAXF >Cluster, without any problem. But we do not have any FDDI or DS3 cardD >in it. This product was a commen developed by Digital/Cabletron andF >was bouhgt by Compaq as GigaSwitch Ethernet. AFAIK, the did implementI >on both lines the Digital trunk protokoll as one type of hunt protocols.t   Sorry to correct you. @ The Cabletron SmartSwitchRouter (now called Enterasys Xpedition)D was originally designed by a small company named YAGO and was boughtG (with the company) by Cabletron some months before Cabletron bought the G Digital Network Product Group. Unlike DNPG, YAGO was very fast absorbedLK within Cabletron. YAGO did AFAIK not cooperate with DEC, neither did CTRON.d  E Later when Cabletron wanted to increase its market value and splitted H itself up in 4 parts (with Enterasys [Components] and Aprisma [SPECTRUM]E being the biggest) and did an IPO for these 4 parts (which succeeded)UE DNPG (as a 5th part) got sold again (why Cabletron bought them at allm@ remains a secret) and is still in business (http://www.dnpg.com)   -- . Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER % Network and OpenVMS system specialista E-mail  peter@langstoeger.atP A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm looking for (a) Network _and_ VMS Job(s)   ------------------------------   Date: 13 May 02 20:46:28 +0200) From: p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture) O Subject: Re: new academic programme (was: RE: Bob Palmer and the demise of DEC) ) Message-ID: <zA1FEP1tOIsT@elias.decus.ch>M  w In article <01KHOSYDJQ3495MSV4@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>, Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> writes:1K >> |> Actually, they have.  In fact, one of the main criticisms of the new mO >> |> educational programme is that it is modelled TOO CLOSELY on the hobbyist yO >> |> programme.  Depending on what you want to do, this might or might not be . >> |> a disadvantage.  >> a= >> Which program is this??  The last one I saw discussed hereb% >> basicly made VMS a single user OS r > C > Right, that's the problem.  Or does the hobbyist programme allow "G > multi-user licenses now?  (I think that at least in the beginning it (
 > didn't.) >   I Looking at the license agreement as found in the VMS O/S Hobbyist License)K delivered to me in March 2003, I can find no mention of number of users. "at$ single computer" does get a mention.   >> and put a whole bunch of > >> administrative responsibility on the head of professors who> >> wanted to use them for class work (and anyone who knows any= >> professors will know how quickly that would kill an idea!)a > ' > OK, a different administrative issue.s -- e __
 Paul Sture Switzerland,   ------------------------------    Date: 13 May 2002 19:56:08 -00004 From: Doc.Cypher <Use-Author-Address-Header@[127.1]>O Subject: Re: new academic programme (was: RE: Bob Palmer and the demise of DEC):6 Message-ID: <20020513195608.29311.qmail@gacracker.org>  8 On 13 May 02, p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture) wrote:K >In article <01KHOSYDJQ3495MSV4@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>, Phillip HelbigE- ><HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> writes:uL >>> |> Actually, they have.  In fact, one of the main criticisms of the new P >>> |> educational programme is that it is modelled TOO CLOSELY on the hobbyist P >>> |> programme.  Depending on what you want to do, this might or might not be  >>> |> a disadvantage. o >>> O >>> Which program is this??  The last one I saw discussed here basicly made VMSa >>> a single user OS   >> eD >> Right, that's the problem.  Or does the hobbyist programme allow H >> multi-user licenses now?  (I think that at least in the beginning it  >> didn't.)  >>   >TJ >Looking at the license agreement as found in the VMS O/S Hobbyist LicenseL >delivered to me in March 2003, I can find no mention of number of users. "a% >single computer" does get a mention.e  I I'm running in the hope that HPQ will continue to interpret those licensekF terms in a fairly liberal way. Otherwise I've got to shut down my freeI access program and stop mildly taunting the unix crowd about the superior G security of VMS. As long as the hobbyist program remains fairly relaxedrK I'll keep doing the best I can to promote the OS and introduce it to people C who may only otherwise meet it in Computer Science history classes.    >>> and put a whole bunch of? >>> administrative responsibility on the head of professors who-? >>> wanted to use them for class work (and anyone who knows anye? >>> professors will know how quickly that would kill an idea!) o >>  ( >> OK, a different administrative issue.  K Yes, I don't have the full details of the current educational program at myeF disposal, but I understood that each student wishing to use VMS had toJ obtain their own licences and load them onto the machine they were to use.% Guys... You *are* joking, aren't you?      Doc. -- s6 The bigger the humbug, the better people will like it.K ~ Phineas Taylor Barnum.                             https://vmsbox.cjb.netk   ------------------------------   Date: 14 May 02 00:38:37 +0200) From: p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture) 8 Subject: Re: new academic programme and Hobbist licenses) Message-ID: <VuvXXKKmEt80@elias.decus.ch>   m In article <20020513195608.29311.qmail@gacracker.org>, Doc.Cypher <Use-Author-Address-Header@[127.1]> writes:a: > On 13 May 02, p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture) wrote:L >>In article <01KHOSYDJQ3495MSV4@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>, Phillip Helbig. >><HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> writes:M >>>> |> Actually, they have.  In fact, one of the main criticisms of the new dQ >>>> |> educational programme is that it is modelled TOO CLOSELY on the hobbyist tQ >>>> |> programme.  Depending on what you want to do, this might or might not be e >>>> |> a disadvantage.  >>>> /P >>>> Which program is this??  The last one I saw discussed here basicly made VMS >>>> a single user OS  >>> E >>> Right, that's the problem.  Or does the hobbyist programme allow gI >>> multi-user licenses now?  (I think that at least in the beginning it a
 >>> didn't.) J >>>  >>K >>Looking at the license agreement as found in the VMS O/S Hobbyist License.M >>delivered to me in March 2003, I can find no mention of number of users. "ac& >>single computer" does get a mention. > K > I'm running in the hope that HPQ will continue to interpret those licensetH > terms in a fairly liberal way. Otherwise I've got to shut down my freeK > access program and stop mildly taunting the unix crowd about the superioreI > security of VMS. As long as the hobbyist program remains fairly relaxed M > I'll keep doing the best I can to promote the OS and introduce it to peopleDE > who may only otherwise meet it in Computer Science history classes.I >   I Yes, I was thinking of your and others' efforts when I read the licensingi terms.  M Given that you need a separate Hobbyist license for each system in a cluster, K my reading of the license terms is that a Hobbyist cluster is also allowed.-  M The important message from my reading of the terms is that thou shalt not usefG it for any _business_ purposes whatsoever. Usual IANAL disclaimer here.a  N As a Hobbyist, if I were looking to turn commercial with anything, my best betO would probably to be looking at renting time on a commercially licensed system,nJ see if it's a goer, then start thinking about the CSA or greater licenses.   >>>> and put a whole bunch ofF@ >>>> administrative responsibility on the head of professors who@ >>>> wanted to use them for class work (and anyone who knows any@ >>>> professors will know how quickly that would kill an idea!)  >>> ) >>> OK, a different administrative issue.n > M > Yes, I don't have the full details of the current educational program at mynH > disposal, but I understood that each student wishing to use VMS had toL > obtain their own licences and load them onto the machine they were to use.' > Guys... You *are* joking, aren't you?n >  >  > Doc. > --  8 > The bigger the humbug, the better people will like it.M > ~ Phineas Taylor Barnum.                             https://vmsbox.cjb.net  >  >  >  >  -- - __
 Paul Sture Switzerland    ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 13 May 2002 19:00:58 GMTe# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>9 Subject: Re: No new Alpha sales I Message-ID: <K3UD8.83446$GLp1.15577@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>   A "Howard Taylor" <Howard.Taylor@pacificcoast.net> wrote in message  news:3cdedfee$1@nubby2.... > < > "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message( > news:3CDECE4C.2B1F0FEF@videotron.ca... >>G > >  Rationale: We want to reinforce our commitment to our customers by. > followingSK > > the roadmaps we had already established. We're leading with PA-RISC for- > new-L > > business opportunities for two reasons: First, the PA-RISC systems will, > inL > > most cases, be upgradeable in the box to future Itanium microprocessors./ > > Second, HP-UX is the long-term UNIX for HP.C > > ## >> > This statement says to me:B > - HP will *not* recommend OpenVMS for new business opportunitiesG > - Because OpenVMS is not HP-UX (or UNIX, for that matter), OpenVMS ise *not*s > long-term for HP >cB > Does this sound correct, or have I mis-interpreted your posting? >  > Howard Taylorg     Sort of right.  J The forementioned  HP statement refers only to their decision of HP-UX vs.H Tru64, and in my opinion only because HP-UX has larger market share thanH Tru64, and hence less distruptive to the combined unix customer base. IfL they had made the decision of which to chose based on technical superiority,L then they would have chosen Tru64, but that also would have meant Alpha, andL imagine the screams from HP-UX users who would then be in a position to have9 to buy Alpha boxes only to then have to buy Itanic boxes.=  K The bit about the boxes being field upgradable to Itanic is nice marketing, J but virtually none of the customers will do it. They'll buy new boxes withH newer bus architecutes and interconnects before they upgrade an existing 3-year old box.a    L Alpha will be sold until IA64 is ready, and probably for a short while afterF that. But if you are a new (to HP) customer, don't expect them to everL mention VMS to you. It'll be HP-UX or Windows that they'll try to stuff down your throat.    G About VMS - you got that right too. There have previously been verbatim"J quotes taken from HP material about this, although some posts here seem toJ suggest that HP (Stallard in particular) still don;t have their minds madeG up on this. If you want VMS to live, write Carly, write Stallard, ditto  Marcello et al.r  6 If you don't care about VMS anymore, call IBM for AIX.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 13 May 2002 15:31:48 -0400o- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>i Subject: Re: No new Alpha saleso, Message-ID: <3CE014A2.D527D8B9@videotron.ca>   Glenn Everhart wrote: R > This is of course complete speculation, and fear that there might be such a callN > could conceivably result in the same effects without having had to leave any
 > traces..  L Spaculation ? I think it is a given that Digital, Compaq and now HP will not< want to irritate Microsoft by pitching competitive products.  M The port of All-in-1 to NT was cancelled at about the same time Palmer signed.G a comprehensive ass-cleaning service with Microsoft where Digital would8H install a gazzillion seats of Exchange  in exchange for the privilege ofF selling Windows. (a privilege which costs nothing to other companies).  N They purposefully priced/built their alpha workstations NOT to compete against: NT, except for thos workstations castrated to run only NT.  N Compaq was the only computer manufacturer to publicly support Microsoft in theM anti-trust trial, yet, as proprietaor of Digital, Compaq is the one whose ownt@ products were most destroyed by the relationship with Microsoft.    M Perhapsd the renaissance was just a revenu stabilisation thing and was cut asc soon as revenus came back up.    ------------------------------   Date: 13 May 2002 19:15:26 GMT1 From: bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)2 Subject: Re: No new Alpha sales(, Message-ID: <abp3ce$1f2e$1@info.cs.uofs.edu>  I In article <K3UD8.83446$GLp1.15577@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>,e&  "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> writes: |> lN |> The bit about the boxes being field upgradable to Itanic is nice marketing,M |> but virtually none of the customers will do it. They'll buy new boxes with K |> newer bus architecutes and interconnects before they upgrade an existing. |> 3-year old box. |> s  G Actually, I ssupect the "upgrade" will be about the same as the upgradea+ for the 3B2 family when NCR took that over.c Step 1.  Open case* Step 2.  Dump entire contents into garbage+ Step 3.  Put whole new computer in old casea   Upgrade complete.>     bill   -- nJ Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   e   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 13 May 2002 21:36:57 GMTD* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> Subject: Re: No new Alpha salesn? Message-ID: <ZlWD8.2375$Ze4.321279@bin5.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>   . "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> wrote in messageC news:K3UD8.83446$GLp1.15577@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com..., >eC > "Howard Taylor" <Howard.Taylor@pacificcoast.net> wrote in messagen > news:3cdedfee$1@nubby2.... > >o> > > "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message* > > news:3CDECE4C.2B1F0FEF@videotron.ca... > >eI > > >  Rationale: We want to reinforce our commitment to our customers byt
 > > following I > > > the roadmaps we had already established. We're leading with PA-RISCp forn > > newMH > > > business opportunities for two reasons: First, the PA-RISC systems will,o > > in= > > > most cases, be upgradeable in the box to future Itaniumn microprocessors.1 > > > Second, HP-UX is the long-term UNIX for HP.d > > > ## > >t > > This statement says to me:D > > - HP will *not* recommend OpenVMS for new business opportunitiesI > > - Because OpenVMS is not HP-UX (or UNIX, for that matter), OpenVMS isa > *not*u > > long-term for HP > >fD > > Does this sound correct, or have I mis-interpreted your posting? > >D > > Howard Taylor2 >3 >2 > Sort of right. >kL > The forementioned  HP statement refers only to their decision of HP-UX vs. > Tru640  F That's actually incorrect:  the statement occurs in a general (not OS)H context and refers to hardware platform sales rather than OS sales.  AndG later statements confirm that Alpha will not be pushed for new business C opportunities, just in some existing niche areas and/or to existing>7 customers who can't be convinced to 'upgrade' to HP-UX.r   - bill   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 14 May 2002 00:01:09 GMT # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>o Subject: Re: No new Alpha sales I Message-ID: <9tYD8.89584$GLp1.20086@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>   G You forgot the bit about cleaning out the 'dust bunnies' from the poweriK supplies, and if in Australia, the odd python that finds large server boxesg nice warm places to curl up in.e  J Wouldn't catch me putting my arm under a raised floor in Australia. One ofH my relatives just found the skin of some sort of constrictor (least theyE didn't think it was poisonous) in their home near Brisbane this week.    Nice place to visit though.     > "Bill Gunshannon" <bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu> wrote in message& news:abp3ce$1f2e$1@info.cs.uofs.edu...K > In article <K3UD8.83446$GLp1.15577@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>,t( >  "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> writes: > |>E > |> The bit about the boxes being field upgradable to Itanic is nicer
 marketing,J > |> but virtually none of the customers will do it. They'll buy new boxes withD > |> newer bus architecutes and interconnects before they upgrade an existing > |> 3-year old box. > |> >MI > Actually, I ssupect the "upgrade" will be about the same as the upgradev- > for the 3B2 family when NCR took that over.6 > Step 1.  Open case, > Step 2.  Dump entire contents into garbage- > Step 3.  Put whole new computer in old casef >. > Upgrade complete.u >t >S > bill >o > --L > Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesF > bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. > University of Scranton   |@ > Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 14 May 2002 01:09:27 GMTo1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>S Subject: Re: No new Alpha sales ' Message-ID: <3CE066F3.500DEFE8@fsi.net>s   Paul Repacholi wrote:n > 5 > "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> writes:e >  > > JF Mezei wrote:  >  > > > Dave Gudewicz wrote:C > > > > VMS? Today on Alpha and for the next few years and probablyd@ > > > > longer.  Long term on IPF.  That's what I got out of theH > > > > message.  And yes, I did notice that VMS was mentioned under the' > > > > UNIX section of the whitepaper.p > H > > > Yes, VMS will remain available for existing customers. However theF > > > message from HP is that Alpha based stuff will not be pitched to1 > > > new customers who will be steered to HP-UX.e > E > > O.k. This question has been kicking around in the back of my headp% > > long enough, so I'm gonna ask it:@ > G > > What obstacles would be faced by a reseller (current or future) whorB > > aggressively pushes VMS in spite of its unjustifiable pricing,E > > hardware support limitations and dearth of business applications?: > F > > No this is *NOT* a troll - I'm dead serious! If HPQ won't "run the > > ball", why not a VAR/OEM?e >  > OK, but note the end bit...4 > H > You get the new prospect lined up, and are all set to go. If they have9 > half a clue, they will be sanity checking what you say.e > C > "Hello, hp, we want a machine to run 300 users at out health care 
 > centre." > ...C@ > "VMS? Do they still make that. And Alphas are dead, they where > canceled last year."  A ...and if *YOU* have half a clue, you prime them for exactly thathH scenario and tell them exactly what kind of answers they can expect fromE such questions. They ask, HP answers, your claims are confirmed! YoureG honesty is proven, and they can feel good about someone who is not onlyn; willing to "swim upstream", but is honest about it to boot!a  . Where else can they find such characteristics?  C > So you are pushing it up hill in a BIG way... I will bet that anyiF > conversation with hp will include how you will have to port from theC > dead end alpha, and how compatable HPPA and IA-64 are. Promise...   B No one ever said it would be easy. If we wanted "easy" we'd all beH hawking point-and-click toys instead of CLI-oriented work-horse systems.   -- i David J. Dachtera_ dba DJE Systemst http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/-   ------------------------------  + Date: Mon, 13 May 2002 11:59:26 -0600 (MDT) * From: Ingemar Olson <IOLSON@dairyland.com>. Subject: Re: Non-interactive TECO? (of course)- Message-ID: <01KHOFMM2RAS8XANNL@dairyland.ca>   & >> $ define/user sys$command sys$input >v% >$  DEFINE/USER SYS$INPUT SYS$COMMAND  >E >might be better.  :-| >eF One might think so, but then teco puts up its * prompt and sits until D I type in the command anyway. Not quite the effect I was hoping for.   IngemarS   ------------------------------   Date: 13 May 02 21:02:42 +0200) From: p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture)a. Subject: Re: Non-interactive TECO? (of course)) Message-ID: <h1eH2tR$n610@elias.decus.ch>c  Z In article <01KHOEWLQ98K8XANNL@dairyland.ca>, Ingemar Olson <IOLSON@dairyland.com> writes: > Thanks Larry, Elliott, Csaba.  > @ > (Looks like that last I one I tried to send "took off" on me.) > + > Nonetheless I still can't get it to work.s >  > If a have a file containing: > $ set verd > $ teco = "$teco32 teco" % > $ define/user sys$command sys$input & > $ teco ODSR4510_FINV_16_19_56_58.PRTE > EX<esc><esc>    and those 2 <esc>'s really ARE the escape charactere > $ 
 > $ set noverl > 
 > Then I get r	 > $ @testo > $ teco = "$teco32 teco"e% > $ define/user sys$command sys$input & > $ teco ODSR4510_FINV_16_19_56_58.PRT) > %SYSTEM-F-BADPARAM, bad parameter valuemD > %DCL-W-SKPDAT, image data (records not beginning with "$") ignored
 > $ set noveri > I > Same thing if I don't define the teco symbol and just $edit/teco <file>s > C > Sorry, Elliott, the link to the doc you posted earlier is broken.t > B > Can any of you guys actually do this (for sure) or are you just  > shooting from the hip? >  Proof:  
 type x.rno .lm 8t .rm 72 This is a runoff file 
 $ runoff x0 $ edit/edt x.mem  ! see the extra <CR><LF> pairs2 Input file does not have standard text file format     1       <CR><LF>	 *type %who     1       <CR><LF>     2       <CR><LF>     3       <CR><LF>1     4               This is a runoff file<CR><LF> 
 [EOB][EOB] *quita    3 $ edit/edt do_teco.com  ! Note the escape sequencesh     1       $! DO_TECO.COM	 *type %wh      1       $! DO_TECO.COM     2       $! -----------     3       $!     4       $ edit/teco 'p1'     5       ex<ESC><ESC> [EOB]: *quit0     $ @do_teco x.mem *ex$$h= $ edit/edt x.mem  ! See that TECO removed the <CR><LF> pairs.       1	 *type %whD     1X     2@     3e)     4               This is a runoff file1   [EOB]c *k       __
 Paul Sture Switzerlandr   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 13 May 2002 18:52:22 GMTl6 From: "John.Malmberg" <Malmberg@dskwld.zko.dec.compaq>. Subject: Re: Non-interactive TECO? (of course)4 Message-ID: <3CE00A29.6070003@dskwld.zko.dec.compaq>  7 Contents of replace.tec: ($ is really escape character)w  2 ERtest.txt$y$ewtest.out$<FNCompaq$hp$;><$>ex<$><$>   $ @test.como $type test.txt Compaq OpenVMS Compaq OpenVMS Compaq OpenVMS Compaq OpenVMS
 $dir test.out ! %DIRECT-W-NOFILES, no files found> $! $edit/teco/command=replace.tec $! $type test.out
 hp OpenVMS
 hp OpenVMS
 hp OpenVMS
 hp OpenVMS  E I would have to refer to the TECO manual for building a more complex e example.  H IIRC: TECO when running an external TECO macro is documented to require C you to manually open the input file, read it in, and also open the  C output file.  I do not recall the TECO commands to get the command c
 arguments.  I As I understand it there is production code using TECO non-interactively   on a regular basis.p   -JohnQ! Malmberg@dskwld.zko.dec.compaq.hpi Personal Opinion Onlyi   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 13 May 2002 16:48:57 -0400a- From: "Peter Weaver" <peter.weaver@stelco.ca>e. Subject: Re: Non-interactive TECO? (of course)5 Message-ID: <abp8sf$k5s4d$1@ID-141708.news.dfncis.de>n  4 "Elliott Roper" <elliott@yrl.co.uk> wrote in message, news:110520021550154228%elliott@yrl.co.uk... >...G > str1 and str2 from the command line. Not that you would bother. After A > becoming a teco user, you would rather write teco than DCL. ;-)   L I am a bit surprised that Jerry Pournelle did not start another "Editor War"' with the comments he made about Teco inl6 http://www.byte.com/documents/s=7163/byt1020286217368/  + Near the bottom of the article you'll find;a  K "He [Richard Stallman] was immensely helpful to me in those days, patientlysG showing me things about emacs - his full-screen editor that he wrote in F TECO, and the less said about TECO the better - as well as adding some< special code to take care of things I wanted to accomplish."   :)   --L Peter Weaver (Who thinks there is a time and place for EDT, TPU and Teco (if$ I ever get around to learning Teco))L Opinions are my own, and do not reflect the opinions of my employer, nor theK company that it sub-contracts to, nor the company that it sub-contracts to.t   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 13 May 2002 21:35:08 +0100c' From: Elliott Roper <elliott@yrl.co.uk> . Subject: Re: Non-interactive TECO? (of course)2 Message-ID: <130520022135085543%elliott@yrl.co.uk>  : In article <abnmnv$c8d$1@bunyip.cc.uq.edu.au>, Ian Burgess* <ccburgess@uqstu.jdstory.uq.edu.au> wrote:  B > In article <110520021550154228%elliott@yrl.co.uk>, Elliott Roper > <elliott@yrl.co.uk> writes: C > >Yesterday I offered a teco macro for fixing crlfs on a wild cardw1 > >filspec from a .com. It had a bugette on exit.e4 > >As promised, the improved macro is (fix_crlf.tec)& > >hxahken^eqa$<:en$;:eb^eq*$;ec$>ex$$ > >aE > >called as before from a command file (fix_crlf.com) which containse > >$mung = "$teco32 mung"  > >$mung fix_crlf.tec,'p1' > >w > >by F > >@fix_crlf.com *.mem (or whatever it was that RNO used to screw up.) > >tH > >I forgot that en$ delivers a null filespec before failing on the nextE > >pass. Adding a conditional to the eb and another break" ;" when it  > >fails does the trick. > >wF > >I've been biting my tongue during the EVE v EDT debate about global > >replace routines. So far... > >sE > >By simply inserting <fnstr1$str2;> just before the ec in the aboveeI > >macro you get the whole wild carded global replace from a command filenB > >that consumed so many bytes of internet over the last few days. > >l > >...damn! I couldn't resist! > >iI > >Teco takes a while to learn. After that, you don't type nearly as manyt> > >characters of commands to get the job done. Using the same I > >"mung teco_macro_file,text" trick, it should be fairly easy to pass in H > >str1 and str2 from the command line. Not that you would bother. AfterB > >becoming a teco user, you would rather write teco than DCL. ;-) >  > Make that <fnstr1$str2$;>   8 Oh..... As BAH might say;  emoticon hangs head in shame. > A > If you want to avoid having to type <esc> into your procedures,a > addiM >  $ define/user TEC$INIT "96ee"  ! set escape character to be ` (96 decimal), > before the mung command.  K > Of course your login.com would have defined TEC$INIT to be something like  >  $ define/nolog tec$init8 > "96ee-1es2eh16ed256u0et&512""nq0#128#16u0-1ev'q0#4096" > for screen editing!i > 0 > Don't you just love this "clear as mud" stuff!  C Yes! I always do that kind of stuff in teco.ini. Thanks, that'll bef1 quite useful in command files not executed as me.   5 (crossposted to alt.lang.teco just for the nostalgia)a Elliotti   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 13 May 2002 22:07:41 +0100 ' From: Elliott Roper <elliott@yrl.co.uk>o. Subject: Re: Non-interactive TECO? (of course)2 Message-ID: <130520022207412767%elliott@yrl.co.uk>  B In article <3CE00A29.6070003@dskwld.zko.dec.compaq>, John.Malmberg' <Malmberg@dskwld.zko.dec.compaq> wrote:u    J > IIRC: TECO when running an external TECO macro is documented to require E > you to manually open the input file, read it in, and also open the cE > output file.  I do not recall the TECO commands to get the command   > arguments.  G Not for the faint hearted. Left to its own devices, VMS teco parses itsiC own command line, in teco of course. It places the original commande@ line in q register z then looks for a teco.tec in various usefulD places. You may put a command line processing macro in there to grabB control before teco goes interactive. If not, or your own teco.tec? parser usurper permitting, it parses the command line  with the   hardwired macro in q register y.: See App G.12 in Teco.doc  (v40) for the full gory details. > K > As I understand it there is production code using TECO non-interactively a > on a regular basis.   E Probably because whoever wrote it has left and nobody dares touch it!   E Elliott, (who got addicted by helping write teco macros to write teco ? macros to create PDP-8 assembler for width tables in Typeset-8)i   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 14 May 2002 01:01:50 +0100e' From: Elliott Roper <elliott@yrl.co.uk>o. Subject: Re: Non-interactive TECO? (of course)2 Message-ID: <140520020101509716%elliott@yrl.co.uk>  ; In article <01KHOEWLQ98K8XANNL@dairyland.ca>, Ingemar Olsono <IOLSON@dairyland.com> wrote:d   > Thanks Larry, Elliott, Csaba.a > @ > (Looks like that last I one I tried to send "took off" on me.) > + > Nonetheless I still can't get it to work.e >  > If a have a file containing: > $ set ver- > $ teco = "$teco32 teco"9% > $ define/user sys$command sys$input.& > $ teco ODSR4510_FINV_16_19_56_58.PRTE > EX<esc><esc>    and those 2 <esc>'s really ARE the escape charactert > $<
 > $ set nover1 > 
 > Then I get .	 > $ @teste > $ teco = "$teco32 teco"h% > $ define/user sys$command sys$inpute& > $ teco ODSR4510_FINV_16_19_56_58.PRT) > %SYSTEM-F-BADPARAM, bad parameter valuerD > %DCL-W-SKPDAT, image data (records not beginning with "$") ignored
 > $ set noverc > I > Same thing if I don't define the teco symbol and just $edit/teco <file>. > C > Sorry, Elliott, the link to the doc you posted earlier is broken.   ' http://www.yrl.co.uk/~elliott/teco.doc t  - it's there OK. Is that what I said last time?i  D note the tilde ~ preceding elliott. Quite a few visitors looking forE the manual missed it out and got our beautifully crafted 404 message.m  H Can't be broken. That's an OSU VMS web server you are talking about. ;-) > B > Can any of you guys actually do this (for sure) or are you just  > shooting from the hip?  F Sure. I tested mine then copied and pasted. I'd feel quite smug exceptD for the error I made while bragging about global replace in teco ;-)   ------------------------------  + Date: Mon, 13 May 2002 13:08:11 -0600 (MDT)n* From: Ingemar Olson <IOLSON@dairyland.com>- Subject: Re: Non-interactive TECO? (solution)4- Message-ID: <01KHOI0PPCB88XANNL@dairyland.ca>c   Bingo!  Thanks Paul.  4 So the solution is to NOT redefine the input device.@ This strikes me as counter-intuitive (and apparently a couple of3 other guys too!), but it works and I'm happy again..   Ingemard   ------------------------------   Date: 14 May 02 00:12:19 +0200) From: p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture) - Subject: Re: Non-interactive TECO? (solution)W) Message-ID: <xDk1Ue5WZght@elias.decus.ch>   Z In article <01KHOI0PPCB88XANNL@dairyland.ca>, Ingemar Olson <IOLSON@dairyland.com> writes: > Bingo!  Thanks Paul. > 6 > So the solution is to NOT redefine the input device.B > This strikes me as counter-intuitive (and apparently a couple of5 > other guys too!), but it works and I'm happy again.  > 	 > Ingemar  -- e __
 Paul Sture Switzerlands   ------------------------------   Date: 14 May 02 00:52:41 +0200) From: p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture)t- Subject: Re: Non-interactive TECO? (solution)u) Message-ID: <$tW26KltLbfY@elias.decus.ch>2  Z In article <01KHOI0PPCB88XANNL@dairyland.ca>, Ingemar Olson <IOLSON@dairyland.com> writes: > Bingo!  Thanks Paul. > 6 > So the solution is to NOT redefine the input device.B > This strikes me as counter-intuitive (and apparently a couple of5 > other guys too!), but it works and I'm happy again.n > 	 > Ingemarr  B (Huh? Don't know what happend to my reply there. Let's try again.)  : Great. To clarify the subject, here's an example where you _would_ want to use a redefine:-  $ $ define /user sys$input sys$command$ $ edit /edt 'data' /command=edit.edt  8 This is telling EDT to execute the commands in EDIT.EDT,< then provided EDIT.EDT doesn't contain an EXIT, pass control9 to the terminal. Without the DEFINE, EDT would simply see 9 the next line in the procedure as a $ and perform a QUIT.e  ; This is handy where for example, EDIT.EDT contains commands ; to perform global replacements, but you wish to stay in thee< editor to perform visual checking or other operations before confirming the changes.t  0 I suppose I ought to write this stuff up now :-)   __
 Paul Sture Switzerlandk   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 13 May 2002 15:26:22 -0400.* From: Chuck Chopp <ChuckChopp@rtfmcsi.com>H Subject: Re: Old RAID 230 logical init very slow (63% done after 5 days)* Message-ID: <3CE0135E.6000706@rtfmcsi.com>   Chris Sharman wrote:  5 > Thanks to Chuck & everyone else for all the advice.lL > I'd actually got SRLMGR on the SWXCRMGR floppy, but not mentioned anywhere > in the documentation.b > It's V2.36 we're using.aM > I've downloaded V2.70 from the website, but I can't verify anywhere whether N > it's the correct firmware for my piece of hardware (which I think might be aM > kzpsc, but can't find out for certain). As it warns that the wrong firmwareeJ > will make the kit unusable, I'm rather loathe to risk breaking it, sinceM > 2.36 probably works well enough if I remember to use SRLMGR (& I've writtenG > it all over the manual now).J > Unless anyone knows how to confirm what's in the machine/whether it will > accept the firmware ?d > 
 > Thanks all,y > Chris Sharman  >  >  >  >  >     B IIRC, the 3 channel PCI bus RAID controller is currently called a H KZPSC-?? controller [RAID Array 230 PCI], where the "??" represents the G revision of the board [and the default firmware that was on it when it 3G was shipped].  I don't think that the firmware flash upgrades make any hG distinction between different revisions of the controller.  There were  G also 1 channel and 3 channel EISA bus RAID controllers that are called yE the KZESC-??, but I don't remember what the values are for "??" that oG make a distinction between the 1 channel and 3 channel variants of the n= controller.  I do know that there are several different EISA  G Configuration files for the different variants of the EISA bus version  J of this RAID controller [the RAID Array 210 EISA and RAID Array 230 EISA].  G The vintage of the controller that I was working with recently is most bI definitely back in the days when they were called SWXCR controllers, but sF it acdepted the latest & greatest firmware for the PCI bus RAID Array   230 controller w/o any problems.     HTH,   Chuck  -- n Chuck Choppr  8 ChuckChopp@rtfmcsi.com            http://www.rtfmcsi.com1                                    ICQ # 22321532l@ RTFM Consulting Services Inc.     864 801 2795 voice & voicemail2 103 Autumn Hill Road              864 801 2774 fax4 Greer, SC  29651                  800 774 0718 pager8                                    8007740718@skytel.com   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 13 May 2002 23:30:47 GMTa6 From: "Andy Bustamante" <a_c_bustamante@earthlink.net>H Subject: Re: Old RAID 230 logical init very slow (63% done after 5 days)D Message-ID: <H0YD8.8374$Nt3.710799@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net>  I The latest SWXCR utilities are available on the firmware CD.  Read the CDh< from a PC and you can create an updated floppy.  Look in the \UTILITY\SWXCRMGR directory.   -- Andy Bustamante  Remove the ASCII 95s to replyn      ? "Chris Sharman" <chris.sharman@ccagroup.co.uk> wrote in messagen< news:1021299626.12045.0.nnrp-07.9e989e7e@news.demon.co.uk...5 > Thanks to Chuck & everyone else for all the advice.iL > I'd actually got SRLMGR on the SWXCRMGR floppy, but not mentioned anywhere > in the documentation.n > It's V2.36 we're using. E > I've downloaded V2.70 from the website, but I can't verify anywherek whether-L > it's the correct firmware for my piece of hardware (which I think might be atD > kzpsc, but can't find out for certain). As it warns that the wrong firmwareJ > will make the kit unusable, I'm rather loathe to risk breaking it, sinceE > 2.36 probably works well enough if I remember to use SRLMGR (& I've  writtena > it all over the manual now).J > Unless anyone knows how to confirm what's in the machine/whether it will > accept the firmware ?c >a
 > Thanks all,v > Chris Sharman  >$ >U >Y >O >N   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 13 May 2002 16:00:13 -0400u! From: "me" <wicklinedd@erols.com>y% Subject: Password for Infoserver 1000 + Message-ID: <abp67s$g79$1@bob.news.rcn.net>-  J I recently through a salvage claim got two Infoserver 1000's.  Seems to beL good but What do I need to hook it up to my VS400-90?  The admin password atG the terminal is not reset and the only jumper sets the box up for a MOPdJ boot.  I am currently running it with the processor pulled and four drivesK on the SCSI bus but I would like to have all seven drives.  How can I erase"K the password?.  It is a an assumption that I need it since I can get my vax L to connect, (VMS 7.2 manual says LASTCP, NETBSD website says LATCP, both are! just meaningless acronyms to me).4   Thanks in advanceP   Dave SYSADMIN by defaults   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 13 May 2002 20:14:45 GMT  From: system@SendSpamHere.ORGe) Subject: Re: Password for Infoserver 1000o0 Message-ID: <00A0DE21.B6562E5C@SendSpamHere.ORG>  O In article <abp67s$g79$1@bob.news.rcn.net>, "me" <wicklinedd@erols.com> writes:cK >I recently through a salvage claim got two Infoserver 1000's.  Seems to beoM >good but What do I need to hook it up to my VS400-90?  The admin password athH >the terminal is not reset and the only jumper sets the box up for a MOPK >boot.  I am currently running it with the processor pulled and four drives L >on the SCSI bus but I would like to have all seven drives.  How can I eraseL >the password?.  It is a an assumption that I need it since I can get my vaxM >to connect, (VMS 7.2 manual says LASTCP, NETBSD website says LATCP, both are " >just meaningless acronyms to me). >  >Thanks in advance >s >Daveu >SYSADMIN by default >[ >]  5 If your Infoserver is connected on your network, try:e   $ @SYS$STARTUP:ESS$STARTUP DISKM $ MCR ESS$LADCP  LADCP Version X-7C  LASTPort Disk (LAD) Version V3.0 ESS$DADDRIVER Ident X-21 LADCP> SHOW SERVICES        ' Also, assuming you've started LAT, try:e   $ MCR LATCPh LATCP> SHOW SERVICE   J Look for a service that might be your InforServer.  If the Infoserver doesI not have a name assigned to it, it will appear with a name containing the_ ehternet address.e   --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM             g5   "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?" t   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 13 May 2002 10:56:49 -0700m& From: Greg Cagle <gregc@gregcagle.com> Subject: Re: Powered by HP, Message-ID: <3CDFFE61.3060300@gregcagle.com>   Bob Koehler wrote:p > In article <YGYC8.36976$GLp1.3995@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>, "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> writes: > I >>Hell, maybe we can get them to port any useful features from HP-UX intoe >>TRU64 on Alpha. :-)e >> >  > I >    What makes you think there are any?  I did HP-UX for a few years andxC >    saw no advantages over other UNIX.  Did see some shortcomings.u >   ? Admins seem to agree that SAM is superior to SMIT or admintool.d   -- p
 Greg Cagle gregc at gregcagle dot com   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 13 May 2002 19:05:52 GMTt# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>n Subject: Re: Powered by HPI Message-ID: <k8UD8.83506$GLp1.78962@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>O  J The only useful things about HP-UX AFAIK are the OpenView tools, which are
 applications.r    : "Bob Koehler" <koehler@encompasserve.org> wrote in message- news:bRtwlQhV8zIx@eisner.encompasserve.org...@J > In article <YGYC8.36976$GLp1.3995@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>,% "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> writes:@ > >oK > > Hell, maybe we can get them to port any useful features from HP-UX intor > > TRU64 on Alpha. :-)c > >r >oI >    What makes you think there are any?  I did HP-UX for a few years and C >    saw no advantages over other UNIX.  Did see some shortcomings.d >b   ------------------------------    Date: 13 May 2002 22:02:41 -0700# From: bixiaz@yahoo.com (Bixia Zeng)l$ Subject: Questions with fetch_http.c= Message-ID: <8c01e504.0205132102.11608092@posting.google.com>t   Please help. First question:eC I ran the program fetch_http. It worked well for some URLs, but nott" works with some else. For example:N http://cdec.water.ca.gov/cgi-progs/queryF?SJP&d=13-May-2002+21:07&span=12hours4 It is a real URL,we can open this page with browser.' However, the program ran as the URL is: - http://cdec.water.ca.gov/cgi-progs/queryF?SJP  and give error as following:B 'd' is not recognized as an internal or external command, operableA program or batch file. 'span' is not recognized as an internal or  external command,0  operable program or batch file. * ( I did this test at home on windows 2000)   Second questione: Today, I ran this program on VMS and windows 2000 with URLD http://cdec.water.ca.gov/cgi-progs/queryF?SJP. The gethostbyname gotA exception with the code WSANO_RECOVERY. I changed the function totC gethostbyaddr, it got error code WSANO_DATA. The URL is good. I candA ping the host by the host string, and access the page by InternetpE Browser, but I saw an apparent delay. So the page is good but can notd, be read via socket. Why? How to overcome it?F At home 20 minute ago,, I do the same on window 2000, the program runs well.)   please give me your instruction3  
 Thank you.  
 Daxiin Zuo   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 14 May 2002 01:27:01 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>d( Subject: Re: Questions with fetch_http.c, Message-ID: <3CE0A006.5E1FD96E@videotron.ca>   Bixia Zeng wrote:"E > I ran the program fetch_http. It worked well for some URLs, but notn$ > works with some else. For example:P > http://cdec.water.ca.gov/cgi-progs/queryF?SJP&d=13-May-2002+21:07&span=12hours  Z try enclosing the url in double quotes. eg: fetch_http "http://www.digital.com/complexurl"    / > http://cdec.water.ca.gov/cgi-progs/queryF?SJPn > and give error as following:< > 'd' is not recognized as an internal or external command,   N if I run it on my fetch_http, it fails with a 404 (not found) unless I enclose7 it in quotes, probably to preserve the case of the URL.r  K You may want to recompile and link fetch_http to make sure it is linked and : compiled for the TCPIP stack that is running on your host.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 13 May 2002 15:20:09 -0400 - From: "Peter Weaver" <peter.weaver@stelco.ca>e< Subject: Re: Scott Stallard, forget your VMS to HP UX dream!5 Message-ID: <abp3lv$k87m1$1@ID-141708.news.dfncis.de>f  3 "jlsue" <jlsuexxxz@screaminet.com> wrote in message`2 news:pp30eug3ta3ig1p8n7d66aggvf8qo50upg@4ax.com... >...C > We have been given assurances that the intent was not to convince$H > customers to move to HP-UX, but only to show committement that if they: > wish to move to Unix, we have a very strong story there.   >...   But when do *WE* get assured?    -- Peter WeaverL Opinions are my own, and do not reflect the opinions of my employer, nor theK company that it sub-contracts to, nor the company that it sub-contracts to.    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 13 May 2002 14:09:30 -0500 & From: jlsue <jlsuexxxz@screaminet.com>< Subject: Re: Scott Stallard, forget your VMS to HP UX dream!8 Message-ID: <pp30eug3ta3ig1p8n7d66aggvf8qo50upg@4ax.com>  @ On 7 May 2002 11:46:59 -0700, bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski) wrote:  7 >So VMS is secure and the itanium port is also, but Mr. 8 >Stallard, knock off the "we think the VMS to HP UX port6 >idea is a great one" talk ... we are not leaving vms,8 >and if you try to force us off of VMS it will not be to >your unix garbage!.  A We have been given assurances that the intent was not to convinceeF customers to move to HP-UX, but only to show committement that if they8 wish to move to Unix, we have a very strong story there.  1 Not speaking for anyone, certainly not DEC/Compaqe- (get rid of the xxxz in my address to e-mail)c   ------------------------------    Date: 13 May 2002 19:51:16 -0000= From: Doc.Cypher <Use-Author-Supplied-Address-Header@[127.1]>n< Subject: Re: Scott Stallard, forget your VMS to HP UX dream!6 Message-ID: <20020513195116.29225.qmail@gacracker.org>  < On Mon, 13 May 2002, jlsue <jlsuexxxz@screaminet.com> wrote:A >On 7 May 2002 11:46:59 -0700, bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)  >wrote:l >t8 >>So VMS is secure and the itanium port is also, but Mr.9 >>Stallard, knock off the "we think the VMS to HP UX portnI >>idea is a great one" talk ... we are not leaving vms, and if you try to:; >>force us off of VMS it will not be to your unix garbage! c >RB >We have been given assurances that the intent was not to convinceG >customers to move to HP-UX, but only to show committement that if theye9 >wish to move to Unix, we have a very strong story there.y  K Okay, but it was *extremely* insensitively worded. Peter puts it very well,"K "when do *WE* get assured?". This is one of the key problems at the moment, > the concerns and fears of VMS diehards and the installed base.  D Please, everyone and anyone who might be listened, pass it on to the? relevant management that some marketing of VMS would be greatlyhE appreciated, not to mention the potential *profit* increases it couldo yield.     Doc. --  6 The bigger the humbug, the better people will like it.K ~ Phineas Taylor Barnum.                             https://vmsbox.cjb.netA   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 13 May 2002 16:22:07 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>a< Subject: Re: Scott Stallard, forget your VMS to HP UX dream!, Message-ID: <3CE02069.CBF99814@videotron.ca>   jlsue wrote:C > We have been given assurances that the intent was not to convinceiH > customers to move to HP-UX, but only to show committement that if they: > wish to move to Unix, we have a very strong story there.  J Who is "we" ,  who gave those assurances , and how come they were not made
 publicly ?  M The message about Compaq's expactations is that VMS customers will migrate tofM HP-UX was made publicly more than once. It will take larger public statements  to reverse the initial message.e  $ If it isn't public, it isn't policy.   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 13 May 2002 20:06:44 GMT0, From: "Mike Minor" <mminorhsd@earthlink.net> Subject: Show CommD Message-ID: <o1VD8.8017$Nt3.680718@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net>  	 Hi all...c  I We've been having problems with FTPing files. I think it may be a licensec" issue. However, I ran the command:  	 SHOW COMMa  + One of the parameters returned was IRP = 10r    What is IRP and what does it do?   --	 Thanks...-  
 Mike Minor Z-Code Systems, Inc. mminorhsd@earthlink.nett Phone: 407-656-4990a      Fax: 407-656-5875   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 14 May 2002 02:45:45 GMT.$ From: "Ed Wilts" <ewilts@ewilts.org>+ Subject: Re: simple disk-shadowing questionn: Message-ID: <tT_D8.1527$Bw6.366@rwcrnsc51.ops.asp.att.net>  F "Phillip Helbig" <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> wrote in message5 news:01KHKHPB3HXC984VLY@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com...uE > MUST members of shadow sets use allocation-class names, rather than " > node-based names.  The docs say: >-A >    In all of the following examples, the shadow set members use.4 >    the $allocation-class $ddcu: naming convention. >u: > but don't say (at least not here) that this is REQUIRED.  K Yup, it's required and has been in all releases that I've been working withiD volume shadowing (since HSC-based volume shadowing).  If you try andI configure your system disk with shadowing but no allocation class, you'lla= bugcheck at boot time (SHADBOOTFAIL if I remember correctly).n  K Even if you have only a single node in your cluster, you must still have any allocation class defined.f  
     .../Ed -- Ed Wilts Mounds View, MN, USA mailto:ewilts@ewilts.org   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 13 May 2002 17:11:56 -0400e+ From: John Johnstone <jj_usenet2@yahoo.com>a/ Subject: SMTP_CFGETERROR with TCP/IP V5.1 ECO 3c) Message-ID: <3CDFF3DC.42C68E60@yahoo.com>a  B A system running VMS V7.3 and TCP/IP V5.1 ECO 3 has been getting aH TCPIP-E-SMTP_CFGETERROR - RMS-W-RTB error with some mail messages latelyE that's caused them to be undeliverable.  These are mail messages thattE have passed through a server running sendmail with no problems.  WitheC the log_level set at 3, this is what shows up in the log file (I'vef munged the email addresses):  P  8-MAY-2002 22:43:18.73: next open file _PWS500$DKA0:[SYS0.TCPIP$SMTP]0205082243" 1744_TCPIP$SMTP.TCPIP_PWS500;1(70)L Sender will relay mail to tridentusa.com using this ordered list of gateways Number of MX entries: 13- Expiration Date:      17-NOV-1858 00:00:00.00r0    Gate: interjet.tridentusa.com, Preference: 500 Connected to SMTP server interjet.tridentusa.com  / Printing debug_level 2, Domains and recipients:d Domain: tridentusa.com/    Recipient address: <nnnnnnnn*tridentusa.com>t$    Domain part:       tridentusa.com    Local part:        nnnnnnnn9    Address Status:    Not done, not delivered. (Requeued)   ) Printing debug_level 2, relevant headers:i3 Return-Path: SMTP%"travel*customercare.expedia.com" P Received: from expedia.expedia.com (207.46.182.249)  by pws500.tridentusa.com (VB 5.1-15H, OpenVMS V7.3 Alpha); Wed, 8 May 2002 22:43:17 -0400 (EDT)P Received: from [207.46.184.136] ([207.46.182.249]) by cluster.smtpout.expedia.coH m with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.3651);  Wed, 8 May 2002 19:43:15 -0700% From: travel*customercare.expedia.comh To: nnnnnnnn*tridentusa.com  Subject: <omitted> Date: 8 May 2002 19:43:15 -0700a@ A permanent error makes this mail undeliverable. Must bounce it.P %TCPIP-E-SMTP_CFGETERROR, error getting address/domain from control file, type o f tridentusa.com<CR>5 -RMS-W-RTB, 0 byte record too large for user's bufferi  / Printing debug_level 2, Domains and recipients:n Domain: tridentusa.com/    Recipient address: <nnnnnnnn*tridentusa.com>?$    Domain part:       tridentusa.com    Local part:        nnnnnnnn9    Address Status:    Not done, not delivered. (Requeued)e  ) Printing debug_level 2, relevant headers:e3 Return-Path: SMTP%"travel*customercare.expedia.com"fP Received: from expedia.expedia.com (207.46.182.249)  by pws500.tridentusa.com (VB 5.1-15H, OpenVMS V7.3 Alpha); Wed, 8 May 2002 22:43:17 -0400 (EDT)P Received: from [207.46.184.136] ([207.46.182.249]) by cluster.smtpout.expedia.coH m with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.3651);  Wed, 8 May 2002 19:43:15 -0700% From: travel*customercare.expedia.com  To: nnnnnnnn*tridentusa.com  Subject: <omitted> Date: 8 May 2002 19:43:15 -0700r  E The domain name that's shown in the CFGETERROR message has a carriage F return character at the end of it.  I've changed it to <CR> to make itG visible here.  The errors show up consistently on messages from certaineF sources which makes me think that it's related to how the mail messageG is formed.  It's been hard to track down for two reasons.  The messagesaC that I've looked at are either from mailing lists or from automatedaH systems such as order confirmations from web-based order entry systems. D Therefore, I can't reproduce them on demand.  The SYMB error logging? hasn't been too helpful.  It's not practical to just let it logoE continuously to the SMTP log file with a log level of 5 while waitinge) for one of these messages to come in.  IfiF TCPIP$SMTP_SYMB_SNAPSHOT_BLOCKS is defined, it dutifully stores up theH logging but the CFGETERROR doesn't trip a dump of the error log buffers.  B Has anyone seen a problem such as this or have any suggestions for tracking it down?o   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 14 May 2002 04:25:58 +0200o2 From: martin@radiogaga.harz.de (Martin Vorlaender): Subject: Re: SOT: Yo Andrew, you guys on a roll this week?; Message-ID: <3ce075b6.524144494f47414741@radiogaga.harz.de>e   Bob Ceculski wrote:e > Andrew Harrison wrote... > > Bob Ceculski wrote:tH > > > So tell us Andrew, do you actually do anything for Sun, or are you1 > > > their internet rendition of James Carville?r > > 4 > > I post articles to this newsgroup from a desktop0 > > system running the OS I advocate people use. > >  > > :):):):) >  > so you run OpenVMS?   I Bob, you really should get yourself a decent newsreader. Andrew's headersa! clearly state that he posts using   @ User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; SunOS sun4u; en-US; rv:0.9.4.1)  Gecko/20020406 Netscape6/6.2.2    cu,i   Martin  0 P.S.: I know that header can easily be faked ;-) -- gG So long, and thanks        | Martin Vorlaender  |  VMS & WNT programmera4 for all the books...       | work: mv@pdv-systeme.deK In Memoriam Douglas Adams  |       http://www.pdv-systeme.de/users/martinv/n;             1952-2001      | home: martin@radiogaga.harz.ded   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 13 May 2002 20:59:36 +0200s0 From: "Philip Lewis" <FerrariTR512m@hotmail.com># Subject: Re: Stallards smoking gun!s- Message-ID: <abp2fd$24km$1@news.cybercity.dk>n  F Jesus-H-Christ - they have been telling us the same sh*t about "fixingE messages" in different ways since they acquired VMS.  HP is no betteriI because they have no clue and have another religion.  They are not in the B process of fixing ANYTHING.  The messages are not broken, they AREK intentional and have ALWAYS been.  Read the words, not the message you wantC) to hear - these two things are not equal.9  K VMS is dead in the water.  It will float for a long time, but eventually it " is going to rust and sink in situ.  H I see absolutley no way one can conclude anything else from what HPQ hasB said (or explicitly neglected to say) during the merger and since.   Retirement looms.f  : "Stuart, Ed" <Ed.Stuart@austinenergy.com> wrote in messageL news:92EFB80E551BD511B39500D0B7B0CDCC0642C3F0@ohms.electric.ci.austin.tx.us. ..L > You could send the folks at Compaq an email like Dave suggested in anotherK > thread.  I sent my feelings to RM and got a response from Mark Gorham thee VPJ > of OpenVMS.  His response was that they are in the process of fixing theL > messages.  I'm going to wait and see what happens, but it felt good to get anI > response.  Remember how successful the SUN users were in getting SUN to C > re-think its position regarding Solaris on Intel?  If we, OpenVMSd
 advocates,I > want to get the message to the owner of OpenVMS then we should send theCI > message to them, and encourage others who feel the same way (like otheroE > Encompass members) to also get the message to them rather than justl postingwG > to the newsgroups.  There are only a few folks that post to the group L > regularly. We need each of us to let the folks at HP know what they can doJ > to market OpenVMS better, and how it will benefit their bottom line.  In? > other words, don't just complain, but also bring suggestions.C >e > EdG > **Please apply a generous amount of all the usual disclaimers here.**0 >r >a > > -----Original Message-----B > > From: kuhrt@encompasserve.org [mailto:kuhrt@encompasserve.org]( > > Sent: Thursday, May 09, 2002 3:01 PM > > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comt' > > Subject: Re: Stallards smoking gun!- > >t > >>9 > > In article <20020509150816.5234.qmail@gacracker.org>, : > > Doc.Cypher <Use-Author-Address-Header@[127.1]> writes:> > > > On 9 May 2002, bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski) wrote:4 > > >>"John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> wrote in messageB > > >>news:<z5gC8.17762$GLp1.15568@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.roger
 > > s.com>...-= > > >>> "Bob Ceculski" <bob@instantwhip.com> wrote in message ? > > >>> news:d7791aa1.0205081057.1bd0f0b5@posting.google.com... D > > >>> > it's right here in the pdf off of the openvms web site ...) > > >>> > in the bottom under VMS Q/A ...e	 > > >>> >o	 > > >>> >aA > > >>> > If VMS is being ported to Itanium, why would porting tor > > hp ux be the bestt > > >>> > alternative? > > >>>g@ > > >>> Because if HP can use FUD on enough customers quickly to > > get them to port tot> > > >>> HP/UX,  then they can pull the plug on the IA-64 port, > > notwithstanding thea* > > >>> prior public statements otherwise. > > >>>r@ > > >>> Carly & Co. get paid by boosting the bottom line for HP. > > If they think that> > > >>> they can make more money for the company by strangling > > VMS, then that's= > > >>> exactly what they will do, without any regard for they > > customer impact it > > >>> will have. > > >>E > > >>this was tried by Palmer w/NT ... us vms holdovers know better!t9 > > >>if we knew better then, we haven't lost our senses!_F > > >>if anything, we'll port to AS400/OS400 before we would ever port! > > >>to unix garbage, esp. HP's!c > > >s> > > > Did you ever communicate this "threat" to Compaq? Do you > > have any intention? > > > of communicating it to HP? And, more to the point, do you. > > honestly think > > > they care? > > >e > >aG > > How would one communicate to Compaq (now HP)?  We couldn't get thempG > > to listen when we wanted to buy hundreds of thousands of dollars of G > > Alphaservers with VMS instead of NT.  If they don't listen when you A > > want to buy, what makes you think they'll listen when you areg > > threatening to walk? > >hD > > I was looking at some old data center diagrams yesterday and wasE > > reminded of the time not too long ago when we had over four dozentE > > VAXen running VMS that we wanted to port to Alpha.  After getting A > > the run around from CPQ our management decided to port to Sun D > > instead of Alpha.  We now have dozens of Suns in the data center > > and NT/W2K running on Dell.  > >o@ > > The only Alpha and VMS we have is for the "failure is not an@ > > option" systems.  Since most of our users and IT people wereE > > brought up on the NT/Sun stuff "schedule maintenance", "reboot toa? > > clear hang" and "bugfix/security patch" don't have the same.B > > negative connotations, it's just a part of the normal process.@ > > And I can't say I blame them. Since they haven't ridden in a5 > > limo, they think the local muni bus is just fine.  > >    ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 13 May 2002 19:10:21 GMT?# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> # Subject: Re: Stallards smoking gun!tH Message-ID: <xcUD8.83565$GLp1.4003@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>  8 I just hate it when I find myself agreeing with you. :-)    # "Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy"e> <andrew_nospam.harrison_remove_this@sun#.com> wrote in message* news:abo2kb$st6$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com... >t > < > If HP announce PA-9000 then we will all know that IA64 has> > failed. At the moment HP are continuing to tweek the PA-8XXX% > in the hope that IA64 will succeed.  >rA > Its worth noting that McKinley is about as unatractive to HP-PA,D > customers as it is to Alpha customers since it will involve taking( > a performance cut and paying to do it. >o	 > RegardsP > Andrew Harrison- >  >p >$   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 13 May 2002 19:08:40 GMTw# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>p# Subject: Re: Stallards smoking gun! I Message-ID: <YaUD8.83537$GLp1.46973@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>t   FYIo   -----Original Message-----' From: President & CEO, Eckhard Pfeiffero) Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 1998 5:10 PMr% Subject: Compaq's commitment to Alphar To: All Employeese  2 Info Type:  Business / Process Related Information Action Req:  Noe  I During the past week, Compaq took several significant steps to underscoretI our commitment to Alpha and to extend our leadership in 64-bit computing.9  B We announced a series of initiatives with Microsoft to enhance theF availability and scalability of Windows NT, and to give Windows NT andD 64-bit DIGITAL UNIX the highest levels of interoperability.  We alsoL announced that future generations of Tandem's NonStop Himalaya servers wouldG use the Alpha microprocessor.  And we announced that the official ChinatF National Computer Software & Technology Service Corporation has chosen2 DIGITAL UNIX as the basis for China's 64-bit UNIX.  K These initiatives are critical elements of our plan to fully leverage AlphacJ and the competitive advantages it gives us in key segments of the market -C such as data warehousing, enterprise applications, high-performanceiE technical computing and the Internet.  We are committed to deliveringdH high-volume, 64-bit systems and solutions based on Alpha and, when it is+ available, on **Merced. ** (emphasis added)p  C Compaq already has a substantial lead over our competitors.  As therJ reference platform for 64-bit Windows NT, Alpha is the only processor thatK can run 64-bit UNIX and 64-bit Windows NT today.  Since DIGITAL UNIX is the0G only UNIX that allows customers to develop applications compatible withoL 64-bit Windows NT, it enables them to safely invest in Alpha systems now. WeH expect Alpha to be the highest performance architecture for at least the next decade and beyond.y  H The decision to use Alpha in future generations of Himalaya servers also0 underscores our commitment to NonStop Computing.  J With NSK and 64-bit DIGITAL OpenVMS, Compaq has the best business-criticalI operating systems on the market.  That is a competitive advantage that we * must continue to reinforce with customers.  D Alpha is an essential part of Compaq's enterprise strategy.  We willL continue to invest in Alpha and the Alpha brand, in 64-bit operating systemsH and in software partnerships that have already produced more than 11,000I 64-bit applications.  These are not just investments in technology.  TheyuI are investments in our customers, whose need for high-performance, highlysH available and highly reliable computing solutions is only going to grow.D With Alpha, Compaq is in the strongest position to meet those needs.  G I am asking each of you to help ensure that we clearly communicate this  message to all our customers.      Regards,     Eckhardi  7 Distributed by Reader's Choice http://webrc.das.dec.comt          4 "David Mathog" <mathog@caltech.edu> wrote in message% news:3CDFF660.C2F595F8@caltech.edu...r > John Reagan wrote: > L > > If Compaq/HP didn't plan to productize OpenVMS on Itanium, they sure areK > > paying me money for nothing then (as well as paying lots of other folksh > > for nothing).v >h< > That's not necessarily true.  Assume that HPQ management's7 > goal is merely to keep the current customers in theirt= > existing service contracts and maybe sell a few new alphas. : > If they announced a real EOL those customers would begin; > to bail immediately which would cut into this substantial-9 > revenue stream quickly.  By putting some money into the 8 > port (and for all we know Intel is paying them most of5 > this, so it may be costing HPQ next to nothing) HPQa7 > makes it look like they are actually doing something,v4 > when they may in fact just biding their time until. > an already predetermined event or kill date. >C? > No, I'm not paranoid - we've seen this before.  It is exactlyR= > the same strategy Compaq employed with Alpha.  CPQ told itsS: > customers one thing while management had already decided@ > that something else was going to happen, and were only waiting< > for (apparently) a bad quarter where axing the Alpha could@ > be manipulated to make the books look better for that quarter.C > Since HPQ seems to be following most of the CPQ roadmaps, and has<< > most of the same players in place, we have every reason to< > expect exactly the same sort of crappy behavior from them. > C > The flip side of the coin is that the same engineers are in placem@ > so at least we can also expect (in the mean time) a reasonably > high level of support. >  >e
 > Regards, >a > David Mathog > mathog@caltech.edu   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 13 May 2002 21:26:16 GMTr* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net># Subject: Re: Stallards smoking gun!iA Message-ID: <YbWD8.52134$eV5.4232371@bin2.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>s  . "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> wrote in messageC news:YaUD8.83537$GLp1.46973@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com...n > FYIn >  > -----Original Message-----) > From: President & CEO, Eckhard Pfeiffero+ > Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 1998 5:10 PMW' > Subject: Compaq's commitment to Alpha@ > To: All Employees-   <snipped very pertinent memo>o  K Interesting.  Tends to reinforce my belief that old Eckhard really did planuK to leverage the DEC assets he had bought, rather than just milk them as his0K successor did.  Of course, a year later, the even more specific and earnestiI 'commitment to Alpha' letter that appeared just after Compaq killed NT oneK Alpha and Microsoft responded by dropping Win64 on Alpha appeared not underaJ Capellas' name but under those of two of his senior VPs:  guess he figuredK that meant that breaking those 'commitments' without warning or negotiationaK was no problem, despite the fact that they were still displayed prominentlyT4 on his company's Web site at the time he broke them.  G By the way, I don't remember seeing anyone comment on the interview TheeL Register reported with CTO Shane Robison a while ago that suggested CapellasJ was reconsidering the Heil/Lipcon commitments *as they were being written* (not just later):a  , http://www.theregus.com/content/7/24886.html   <quote>o  L OK, so we know the chronology of the Alphacide fairly well. What went first?  K "Internally, it was justifying what made sense. This was the first question:L I asked Mike when I took over as CTO. [1999 - ed.] How can we justify this?"   </quote>  E With Capellas-style leadership continuing at cHumPaq, why anyone evenaK bothers commenting upon 'smoking guns' from underlings like Stallard is notVA clear:  the weasels continue to be in charge, and one should plan0 accordingly.   - bill   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 14 May 2002 02:43:48 GMT. From: <mreilly36@comcast.net>5; Subject: Re: Swapping: 3Dlabs for Elsa Gloria Synergy CardstA Message-ID: <ER_D8.54514$eV5.4606794@bin2.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>a   David ,nJ     I have 2 possibly 3 ELSA 8Mb PCI cards ; however since I don't run ev6 what else do you want to swap? Marc Reillyo< "Island (hpaq.net)" <dbturner@islandco.com> wrote in message) news:udsti094afj8e5@news.supernews.com...dH > We need some Elsa GLoria Synergy 8MB PCI Video Cards (the PBXGK-BB/BC)L > If you would like to swap, we have brand new 3dLabs VX1 Oxygen Video Cards
 > in stock >  > Thanks >n > Davide >S > -- > Island Computers US Corp.( > 2700 Gregory Streetd > Savannah GA 31404t > Toll Free: 1-877 636 4332%! > International: 001 912 447 6622 " > Facsimile:      001 912 201 0096 > dbturner@hpaq.netw > www.hpaq.net >  >  >-   ------------------------------   Date: 13 May 2002 21:06 CDTe' From: carl@gerg.tamu.edu (Carl Perkins)2' Subject: Re: Switching the console modei- Message-ID: <13MAY200221063717@gerg.tamu.edu>y  G "Craig A. Berry" <craig.berry@nospam.SignalTreeSolutions.com> writes...tA }In article <3cdc4285$0$2920$724ebb72@reader2.ash.ops.us.uu.net>,r- } bart@CTI01.COMVERSE.COM (Steve Bart) wrote:R } D }> 	Can someone tell me how to switch the console mode from one modeI }> to the other when you do not have access to the console in the current J }> mode? In other words, if I have a system (in this case a DS10) with theN }> console set to graphics, but for whatever reason I cannot access the systemE }> via that connection, how can I change it to serial? Thanks for any  }> help in  advance. }> 					Steve Bart } C }Hmm.  Cannot access in that something's busted with your graphics tE }widget or in that you can't physically get to the system?  I'm sure nF }someone will have a more elegant solution, but if you can get to the A }system, try unplugging the keyboard and rebooting; some systems  D }automatically default to serial if there is no keyboard plugged in 8 }(though I don't know for sure the DS10 is one of them).   Another possiblilty:  J On a DS10 there is also a remote management processor on one of the serialI ports. If it hasn't been completely disabled, you may be able to convince0F the remote management processor to talk to you over the correct serialE port. I think you can then have it change console parameters and do aeJ restart. IIRC the default setup is for it to snoop the serial line lookingF for a specific code sequence that indicates you want to talk to it, at" which time it takes over the port.  = You'd have to look up how the remote management thingy works.    --- Carl   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 13 May 2002 21:05:44 +0200 B From: Michiel Erens <I.dont.want.spam@this.mailaddress.is.invalid>, Subject: Re: Terminal Services on VMS client7 Message-ID: <3CE00E88.3143@this.mailaddress.is.invalid>o   Nick Glassock wrote: > D > I am trying to find a solution to using Windows 2000 applications  > from VMS 6.1 / 6.2 clients.n  D I don't know if it helps, but there are at least two RDP clients for> several Unix/X windows flavours. I guess that porting them to , OpenVMS shouldn't be too much of a problem :    http://www.rdesktop.org/m)  http://sourceforge.net/projects/rdesktopm(  http://www.ccm.ece.vt.edu/~lscharf/rdp/   -- i ME Posted by news://news.nb.nu-   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 14 May 2002 00:08:00 GMTi. From: peter@langstoeger.at (Peter LANGSTOEGER), Subject: Re: Terminal Services on VMS client3 Message-ID: <AzYD8.65132$5a4.853473@news.chello.at>e  Q In article <abomde01avc@drn.newsguy.com>, Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net> writes: 5 >In article <3cdfcefd$1@pull.gecm.com>, "Nick says...  >>L >>I am trying to find a solution to using Windows 2000 applications from VMS >>6.1 / 6.2 clients. >>N >>I am aware of the Citrix Metaframe 1.8 Windows 2000 product, but there is no >>ICA client for VMS.  >h1 >The Citrix ICA Java client works under VMS/Java.e  ? Are you sure on that ? The last time I tried it, I always got agH "security not supported" (or similar) error message and it did not work.  G I also found out, that the supported X11 servers are explicitely listedt< in the ICA client somewhere and VMS ones is not [yet] there.  F So, I was not able to run the JAVA ICA client on VMS with X11 displaysH on VMS itself or remote to a SPARCstation, I was also not able to run itE on this SOLARIS machine and having the display on the VMS workstationnB (the local SOLARIS graphics display was working, so it was not the% ICA JAVA client installation itself).   5 Maybe I should try the latest client version again...t  J >>I am aware of NCD's WinCenter "Unix Integration Services" X11 add on forN >>Citrix, but this runs against Metaframe 1.1 and has since been discontinued. >aM >I am not the local terminal services expert by any means but this comes as a P >surprise to me. We have a very large number of Unix workstations which use X toM >display Windows and I have never heard comments at department meetings aboute1 >this going away. Has it maybe just changed name?t  C No. WinCenter was not ported/supported to/on NT5/W2K. M$ won again.e  K >>I am aware that there is a Citrix Metaframe - Java ICA client, and a JavamM >>RDP client from www.hob.de but cannot find a browser / JVM that will run ono >>these versions of VMS. > Q >Ah so you have heard of the Java client. First question. Are the 6.1 systems VAXsN >or Alpha? If VAX you are stuck. If Alpha then I *think* you should be able to6 >get the Java client running under Netscape 3 for VMS.  K No, VMS V6 will be a very tough work for JAVA (because even the oldest JAVAj7 version requires at least OpenVMS Alpha V7.1-2 w/ ECOs)c  J So, consider upgrading VMS to V7.3 (or 7.2-2 at least) or consider anotherM solution like the VNC freeware (ftp://ftp.process.com/vms-freeware/fileserv/)u   -- r Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER@% Network and OpenVMS system specialiste E-mail  peter@langstoeger.atP A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm looking for (a) Network _and_ VMS Job(s)   ------------------------------    Date: 13 May 2002 11:56:53 -0700$ From: johnparamonte@hotmail.com (jp) Subject: Tivoli ABC for VMS < Message-ID: <3367ac9.0205131056.4fad3649@posting.google.com>  D Can anyone here give any feedback, positive or negative, on Tivoli's5 ABC with OpenVMS? Does it use the VMS Backup utility?    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 13 May 2002 19:51:40 -0400u  From: John Santos <JOHN@egh.com> Subject: Re: Tivoli ABC for VMSt4 Message-ID: <1020513193949.353F-100000@Ives.egh.com>   On 13 May 2002, jp wrote:u  F > Can anyone here give any feedback, positive or negative, on Tivoli's7 > ABC with OpenVMS? Does it use the VMS Backup utility?   B One of my customers is using it to back up to an ADSM server (Sun,& I think).  It does not use VMS backup.  ? It seems to work okay, most of the time.  Sometimes it seems to A go into "slow mode" for no apparent reason.  Possibly the networkh? (or some router) is overloaded, or maybe the ADSM server is outlC to lunch or is doing some maintenance task that slows its responses ? drastically.  After a few hours, it suddenly picks up steam and < runs normally.  Since it is doing overnight backup runs from@ copies of the database, etc., we don't much care about slowness,) as long as it finishes by the next night.   @ Client is a cluster of a VAX 6620 and a VAX 6630, 10Mb Ethernet,A VMS V7.1, ABC V1.2-9.  When it is working normally, it does aboutt? 600Kb/s, when in "slow mode", about 1/10th that.  (Based on the   numbers in its summary message.)   -- w John Santos  Evans Griffiths & Hart, Inc. 781-861-0670 ext 539   ------------------------------    Date: 13 May 2002 23:07:34 -0600+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young)  Subject: Re: Tivoli ABC for VMSn3 Message-ID: <G2CPf5YNT+9G@eisner.encompasserve.org>   c In article <3367ac9.0205131056.4fad3649@posting.google.com>, johnparamonte@hotmail.com (jp) writes:dF > Can anyone here give any feedback, positive or negative, on Tivoli's7 > ABC with OpenVMS? Does it use the VMS Backup utility?   = 	I've found it to be a very good product.  We are now getting < 	about 10-11 MByte/sec throughput via 100 Mbit network card.  > 	You may wish to contact the owners http://www.storsol.com/ to 	learn about technical details.i   				Robp   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 13 May 2002 21:03:06 -0400t2 From: rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger)9 Subject: Re: What is good model for disk i/o w/shadowing?lJ Message-ID: <rdeininger-1305022103070001@1cust53.tnt4.nashua.nh.da.uu.net>  K In article <abh4n0$a59$1@grapevine.wam.umd.edu>, bleau@umtof.umd.edu wrote::    4 >rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger) wrote: >0E >>It would be nice to upgrade to V7.3 or (soon) V7.3-1 if possible.  m >lC >You don't say why.  Does the shadowing model change?  If not, thenaH >upgrading only fixes bugs - which is a good thing - but does not reallyL >address my question.  Besides, upgrading is a different fight I must fight,- >let's not have me do both at once, okay? :-)   % Did I say that?  It does seem likely.   J I don't remember the version you mentioned, but it was probably old enoughE to be unsupported, or nearly so.  If bugs are found in an unsupported @ release, there's a good chance any fixes will NOT be backported.  J Also, I/O performance in general has been improved with each release since% V7.2 or so.  This work is continuing.8    D >>If you shadow, you'll likely want to put the two shadow members onK >>different controllers.  That will improve the overlap.  A single SCSI buseI >>can only handle 1 transfer at a time, but 2 busses can mostly overlap 2a >>transfers.   > I >This is a point I had not considered; thanks!  Such a rearrangement *is*rF >possible.  Is there a way to measure this, short of changing hardware9 >config?  How about modelling; is there a model for this?e  A Off the top of my head, I don't know.  This isn't an area where Io particularly spend much time.t   ------------------------------    Date: 13 May 2002 18:35:19 -0700. From: spamsink2001@yahoo.com (Alan E. Feldman)9 Subject: Re: What is good model for disk i/o w/shadowing?h= Message-ID: <b096a4ee.0205131735.28dc5c06@posting.google.com>f  | Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> wrote in message news:<01KHK9LO3MOY96VT0P@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>...G > You mentioned no cluster.  I would recommend a cluster and mount the hG > members of the shadow set on separate nodes.  Then you are protected iH > against the failure of a node, not just against the failure of a disk. > H > You could have some slow machines which essentially do nothing except D > server (half) the disks: I/O is usually only a bit slower on slow * > machines compared to new, fast machines. > I > I believe that you have to use allocation-class names when shadowing.  hJ > This confused me at first, since they are really for dual-ported disks, I > but this redundancy isn't needed if the shadow members are on separate 6I > nodes.  IIRC the discussion here, there is no technical reason per se,  2 > just that otherwise the disk names are too long. > H > Can someone confirm the above?  I plan to shadow disks on my hobbyist  > system this weekend.  :-)h  D Yes, it is because the lock names for the disks would not fit in theD space alloted. See the thread Re: simple disk-shadowing question for details.   Disclaimer: JMHO Alan E. Feldmana" afeldman atski gfigroup dotski com   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 13 May 2002 17:56:02 GMTA* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>' Subject: Re: Who cares about marketing!h? Message-ID: <S6TD8.1370$fU2.201731@bin8.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>e  5 "Nic Clews" <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1> wrote in messages# news:3CDF9665.15C4EA38@127.0.0.1...n   ...n  A > Olson was the idiot who didn't believe in marketing, he thoughtnH > 'technology sells'. Well it did for a little while, but now look where( > that lack of attention has got things.  3 Hey, shit-for-brains:  watch who you call an idiot.o  I That idiot brought *every great product that DEC ever created* to market: I the PDP-8, -10, and -11, VAX, even Alpha; VMS (and a bunch of other greatr OSs); clusters, ...e  @ That idiot built up DEC from zero to the second largest computerK manufacturer in the world with a good shot at becoming the largest, in lesshJ than 30 years (and, indeed, without a great deal of marketing:  stick thatK where your opinions don't shine).  And when DEC fell from that pinnacle, itcI wasn't for lack of marketing, it was because of internal problems (mostlyr/ turf wars, arrogance, and a loss of direction).a  J Now, Olson's successors - clearly men without a smidgeon of his abilities,I with the possible exception of Pfeiffer - certainly screwed up royally intK failing to market the products they had inherited (and didn't do much with,iK save for Alpha and to some extent Tru64).  But that's hardly Olson's fault.L   - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 13 May 2002 16:00:32 -0400t- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>e' Subject: Re: Who cares about marketing!k, Message-ID: <3CE01B5C.E8065304@videotron.ca>   Bill Todd wrote:M > where your opinions don't shine).  And when DEC fell from that pinnacle, itvK > wasn't for lack of marketing, it was because of internal problems (mostlym1 > turf wars, arrogance, and a loss of direction).d    L While I agree that Ken deserves the praise for having built Digital, he also= deserves responsability for those errors you mentioned above.t  J He failed to adapt Digital from the new IT world when Sun, Apollo and thenM Microsoft surfaced as competitors because he kept insisting that only IBM wasnI Digital's competitor. He failed to accept that the price of computing was N going down FOR EVERYONE and though he continue to command higher premiums when; his competitors were selling faster systems at lower price.o   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 13 May 2002 20:26:42 GMT 0 From: prune@ZAnkh-Morpork.mv.com (Paul Winalski)' Subject: Re: Who cares about marketing!s9 Message-ID: <3ce01f8a.2683362050@proxy.news.easynews.com>   F On Mon, 13 May 2002 17:56:02 GMT, "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote:  : >... built up DEC from zero to the second largest computerL >manufacturer in the world with a good shot at becoming the largest, in lessK >than 30 years (and, indeed, without a great deal of marketing:  stick thatnL >where your opinions don't shine).  And when DEC fell from that pinnacle, itJ >wasn't for lack of marketing, it was because of internal problems (mostly0 >turf wars, arrogance, and a loss of direction).   Sorry, Bill.  B I agreed with what you said up to this point, but here's where our( views of the demise of DEC part company.  E Ken's forte was designing, building, and selling things for engineers C to engineers.  Nobody ever did it better.  As long as all the saleso> staff had to do was to sit back and take orders from customers: who knew what they wanted, everything was great.  Then the; company outgrew the engineering market and had to move inton; general business data processing.  Suddenly DEC was dealingr= with PHBs who weren't going to beat a path to the door to buyt? the better mousetrap.  Instead, they were going to buy what the @ press and ads SAID was the right thing.  DEC hid its light under> a bushel, and got its Mill clock cleaned by IBM and others who' understand the importance of marketing.n  8 KO, his successors, and the managers who surrounded them8 never grokked the importance of marketing.  Nor did they; understand that excellent marketing will win over excellent ? engineering every time.  They weren't the first in our industry/> to make that mistake (that honor goes to UNIVAC in the 1950s), and they won't be the last.n   --PSW   
 ---------- Remove 'Z' to reply by email.n   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 13 May 2002 20:51:06 GMT1* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>' Subject: Re: Who cares about marketing!nB Message-ID: <_GVD8.127434$M7.12248168@bin7.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>  : "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message& news:3CE01B5C.E8065304@videotron.ca... > Bill Todd wrote:L > > where your opinions don't shine).  And when DEC fell from that pinnacle, itE > > wasn't for lack of marketing, it was because of internal problems  (mostlyG3 > > turf wars, arrogance, and a loss of direction).0 >4 >nI > While I agree that Ken deserves the praise for having built Digital, heI also? > deserves responsability for those errors you mentioned above.   L Which have nothing to do with marketing (the point to which I responded) andG are a hell of a lot harder to handle well (you'll note that none of hisy successors did any better).G   - bill   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 13 May 2002 21:07:30 GMTr* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>' Subject: Re: Who cares about marketing! ? Message-ID: <mWVD8.2501$Tj3.359047@bin6.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>6  = "Paul Winalski" <prune@ZAnkh-Morpork.mv.com> wrote in message 3 news:3ce01f8a.2683362050@proxy.news.easynews.com... H > On Mon, 13 May 2002 17:56:02 GMT, "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> > wrote: >g< > >... built up DEC from zero to the second largest computerI > >manufacturer in the world with a good shot at becoming the largest, in" lessH > >than 30 years (and, indeed, without a great deal of marketing:  stick thatK > >where your opinions don't shine).  And when DEC fell from that pinnacle,) itL > >wasn't for lack of marketing, it was because of internal problems (mostly2 > >turf wars, arrogance, and a loss of direction). >n > Sorry, Bill. > D > I agreed with what you said up to this point, but here's where our* > views of the demise of DEC part company. >tG > Ken's forte was designing, building, and selling things for engineers E > to engineers.  Nobody ever did it better.  As long as all the salesv@ > staff had to do was to sit back and take orders from customers< > who knew what they wanted, everything was great.  Then the= > company outgrew the engineering market and had to move intou# > general business data processing.s  J And it moved in right smartly, even without marketing.  '70s VAX sales mayG have been primarily to engineering organizations, but by the early '80skI VAXes were selling more to business than to engineering (and right at the K top of the heap in that regard - why do you think IBM felt it needed a 'VAXt
 killer'?).     Suddenly DEC was dealing? > with PHBs who weren't going to beat a path to the door to buyyA > the better mousetrap.  Instead, they were going to buy what theg) > press and ads SAID was the right thing.R  J And right up through the mid-'80s, that was DEC:  the trade press did mostJ of DEC's marketing for it, and while it may not have reached CEOs this wasH back in the days when specialists within a company had more control over* spending decisions within their specialty.     DEC hid its light undera@ > a bushel, and got its Mill clock cleaned by IBM and others who) > understand the importance of marketing.i  K DEC's clock was cleaned by  a) an over-reach into the real mainframe marketlJ without having quite the products to compete there,  b) failure to competeE aggressively in its bread-and-butter markets and thereby giving Sun anJ foothold (actually, the whole staircase), and  c) internal schisms betweenL the VMS and Unix groups that hurt *everyone's* future.  Marketing could onlyL have ameliorated these problems a bit, not solved them; conversely, had theyH been fixed, marketing would have been no more necessary than it had everG been:  being top dog brings with it significant visibility, and withouta3 those other problems DEC would have remained there.e  J It was only after DEC's fall that marketing became a big issue.  And sinceH other major internal problems persisted, it couldn't have saved DEC thenK either.  In fact, the continued lack of marketing was if anything a symptoml& of those more basic internal problems.   > : > KO, his successors, and the managers who surrounded them: > never grokked the importance of marketing.  Nor did they= > understand that excellent marketing will win over excellentf > engineering every time.C  G Right:  that's why IBM kept DEC from ever becoming any kind of a threate whatsoever.  Not.y   - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 13 May 2002 18:01:17 -0500 & From: "Dave Gudewicz" <k9jdk@arrl.net>' Subject: Re: Who cares about marketing!I8 Message-ID: <3ce045ca$0$3577$1dc6e903@news.corecomm.net>  : Remember this.  NOTHING happens until something gets sold.   Dave...V  5 "Nic Clews" <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1> wrote in messagee# news:3CDF9665.15C4EA38@127.0.0.1...n > Bob Ceculski wrote:  > >M@ > > The more I think about this, why do I care so much about theE > > mis-marketing of vms?  if hp like Q wants to keep quiet about theu >t= > Bob, everything is about marketing and selling, everything.  >CH > When you talk to the poor user that has been without their systems forH > several days, the way you keep their confidence in your services is byB > marketing. Tell them you're the best, let them know how much youF > understand their situation and their pain, that you are representingJ > them to the hilt all the way with who ever's job it is to fix the thing. > G > How the heck do you think microsoft get away with it? easy, "the nexteH > thing" is going to be bigger and better, that's the line the poor userH > keeps getting, and they've heard it that often they believe it. That's< > the important thing (and there's that word again BELIEVE). >oF > Everything is selling. Even when I go to buy something, I _sell_ theF > fact I am the right buyer (and therefore hopefully some privileges / > discounts etc.)n >*A > Olson was the idiot who didn't believe in marketing, he thoughttH > 'technology sells'. Well it did for a little while, but now look where( > that lack of attention has got things. >eH > The concept and idea of VMS has to be sold first, make it cool to haveI > VMS, make it sexy, make it desirable, make it so you can't live without: > it, make it so you NEED it.f >sI > Most, if not all of this has zip to do with what VMS is good or bad at.iB > All cars get you from A to B no matter who makes them. So do allJ > aircraft. It needs distinguishing with a concept, then sell the concept./ > Why do you buy one car over another car, Bob?m >oJ > I drive a Citroen (in English, LEMON!). My next car will of my choice beE > a Citroen. Folks here can try to tell me that Audi /Mercs/ BMW FordyH > whatever are better, but I won't hear you. I'm sold on the idea of theJ > Citroen. That is the point. Even though my car has a silly name, I still > feel good about driving it.m >oC > Now, there is an additional bit to this. I may consider a RenaultDG > (Laguna), it is also French, but that is a co-incidence. It certainly G > looks pretty cool (later models) the only thing putting me off is the I > stupid woman driving a (Renault) Clio talking about 'size'. Do I reallymI > want to associate myself with a make who markets some of their vehiclesuJ > with that mentality? Also when they say "it goes", to me that encourages > speeding, and again... >o2 > No, I'll stick with my lemon that you very much. >rI > Remember, everyone is saying that their operating system is more securegG > and has more uptime that the next, and is THE operating system to useeJ > for ebusiness. Simply advertising that VMS does just the same as claimed@ > by all the other operating systems isn't really going to help. >c" > Something different is needed... >iG > So why do I drive Lemons? Well, there's no way I'd want to be a Merc* F > driver, they are all the same, indicators never work on them and theH > lack of intelligence they are driven with, suggests their car choosingC > capacity must be equally challenged. Audi** drivers are arrogant,nC > Renaults I mentioned, and Ford, good grief, talk about mutton and-	 > lamb...  >aJ > *Volvo drivers often exhibit similar characteristics. Mind you, if I wasI > selling something to a Merc or Volvo driver, if they have so much moneyaH > to throw around, I'll add a little to the price, they'll pay if I sell > it right.n > ** Hi Elliott! :-) >sI > When buying things, I _sell_ the fact I'm the best buyer, so much so, I J > usually get a reduction *and* beat other buyers who'd probably have paid
 > full whack.d >oI > After that little look inside my head, here endeth your first lesson inn > marketing.E > (BTW, No offence to anyone driving vehicles of makes mentioned, I'mnG > merely making a point. I know for a fact my BX makes people seasick!)  > --* > Regards, Nic Clews CSC Computer Sciences > nclews at csc dot comR   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 14 May 2002 00:04:21 GMTg# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>3' Subject: Re: Who cares about marketing! H Message-ID: <9wYD8.89632$GLp1.4376@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>  	 How aboute    "VMS. The sizzle and the steak."* (c) 2002, John Smith. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED.  9 HP, if you are listening...let's talk royalties shall we?s    5 "Nic Clews" <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1> wrote in messageu# news:3CDF9665.15C4EA38@127.0.0.1...  > Bob Ceculski wrote:o > >l@ > > The more I think about this, why do I care so much about theE > > mis-marketing of vms?  if hp like Q wants to keep quiet about the  > = > Bob, everything is about marketing and selling, everything.u >nH > When you talk to the poor user that has been without their systems forH > several days, the way you keep their confidence in your services is byB > marketing. Tell them you're the best, let them know how much youF > understand their situation and their pain, that you are representingJ > them to the hilt all the way with who ever's job it is to fix the thing. >nG > How the heck do you think microsoft get away with it? easy, "the next H > thing" is going to be bigger and better, that's the line the poor userH > keeps getting, and they've heard it that often they believe it. That's< > the important thing (and there's that word again BELIEVE). >rF > Everything is selling. Even when I go to buy something, I _sell_ theF > fact I am the right buyer (and therefore hopefully some privileges / > discounts etc.)o >aA > Olson was the idiot who didn't believe in marketing, he thoughtaH > 'technology sells'. Well it did for a little while, but now look where( > that lack of attention has got things. >kH > The concept and idea of VMS has to be sold first, make it cool to haveI > VMS, make it sexy, make it desirable, make it so you can't live withouts > it, make it so you NEED it.y >vI > Most, if not all of this has zip to do with what VMS is good or bad at.cB > All cars get you from A to B no matter who makes them. So do allJ > aircraft. It needs distinguishing with a concept, then sell the concept./ > Why do you buy one car over another car, Bob?s > J > I drive a Citroen (in English, LEMON!). My next car will of my choice beE > a Citroen. Folks here can try to tell me that Audi /Mercs/ BMW FordwH > whatever are better, but I won't hear you. I'm sold on the idea of theJ > Citroen. That is the point. Even though my car has a silly name, I still > feel good about driving it.h >rC > Now, there is an additional bit to this. I may consider a RenaulteG > (Laguna), it is also French, but that is a co-incidence. It certainlyuG > looks pretty cool (later models) the only thing putting me off is the I > stupid woman driving a (Renault) Clio talking about 'size'. Do I really I > want to associate myself with a make who markets some of their vehicleseJ > with that mentality? Also when they say "it goes", to me that encourages > speeding, and again... >n2 > No, I'll stick with my lemon that you very much. >-I > Remember, everyone is saying that their operating system is more secureBG > and has more uptime that the next, and is THE operating system to usegJ > for ebusiness. Simply advertising that VMS does just the same as claimed@ > by all the other operating systems isn't really going to help. >4" > Something different is needed... >aG > So why do I drive Lemons? Well, there's no way I'd want to be a Merc*eF > driver, they are all the same, indicators never work on them and theH > lack of intelligence they are driven with, suggests their car choosingC > capacity must be equally challenged. Audi** drivers are arrogant,aC > Renaults I mentioned, and Ford, good grief, talk about mutton anda	 > lamb...t > J > *Volvo drivers often exhibit similar characteristics. Mind you, if I wasI > selling something to a Merc or Volvo driver, if they have so much moneygH > to throw around, I'll add a little to the price, they'll pay if I sell > it right.  > ** Hi Elliott! :-) >iI > When buying things, I _sell_ the fact I'm the best buyer, so much so, IlJ > usually get a reduction *and* beat other buyers who'd probably have paid
 > full whack.  >sI > After that little look inside my head, here endeth your first lesson inn > marketing.E > (BTW, No offence to anyone driving vehicles of makes mentioned, I'myG > merely making a point. I know for a fact my BX makes people seasick!)o > --* > Regards, Nic Clews CSC Computer Sciences > nclews at csc dot comO   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 14 May 2002 00:26:24 GMT1# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>M' Subject: Re: Who cares about marketing!jI Message-ID: <QQYD8.89974$GLp1.40512@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>r  # "Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy"r> <andrew_nospam.harrison_remove_this@sun#.com> wrote in message* news:aboa8p$20b$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com... >u >o/ > You do although you clearly don't realise it.n > 9 > You run software on your OpenVMS boxes, without SW theyr- > are about as usefull as a chocolate teapot.o >e9 > At some time in the future the SW suppliers will reviewt: > their choice of HW/OS platforms or decide what platforms > to deliver their new SW on.u >c; > Marketing is one critical peice that helps them decide inn > your favour (or can).e >i< > Marketing isn't just adverts and other publicity materials; > its joint market development programmes with SW partners,h@ > sponsorship, sales incentives, loaner machines and SW licenses@ > internal training etc all of which ultimately come out of some > marketing pot. >A" > People on this group claim that. >j3 > Compaq sales people had no clue what OpenVMS was.e/ > Compaq partners had no clue what OpenVMS was.M  > ISV's did not support OpenVMS. >o7 > All of these things can result from lack of marketing  > resources. >s8 > Don't just think of marketing as adverts if you do you > will miss the point entirely., > 	 > Regards  > Andrew Harrisone >w     Excellent summation Andrew.    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 14 May 2002 00:26:13 GMTt# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> ' Subject: Re: Who cares about marketing!bH Message-ID: <FQYD8.89970$GLp1.1021@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>   Bill,    Markets change.u  E Maybe not the markets that we care to operate in (enterprise, bet thep+ business environments), but they do change.i  6 Think back. When did Digital's fortunes start to wane?  G A few years after PC's and other low/moderate cost boxes started to hito desktops in meaningful ways.  K A few years after it started to be possible for nearly any manager to order L one or more $5,000 machines WITHOUT having to go through central purchasing, or being able to bypass IT.e  > And the guys pitching to those mangers were Sun and Microsoft.  F So now those guys who were playing footsie with Sun & Microsoft in theL early/mid-80's are now the senior managers/executives. They remember the old0 saying, "You dance with the one that brung you".  F Same things happened in academia when DEC priced themselves out of theL game - others jumped in at prices that DEC didn't want to compete at becauseJ they didn't want to take the short-term earnings hit. So instead they paidI the long-term price of corporate darwin-ism and evolved out of existence.s  I Gotta keep Wall Street happy....keep those short-term earnings up....ever J wonder how many fund managers who held DEC stock in 1986-87 timeframe whenF it hit $200 and traded at price parity with IBM wished that DEC didn't plummet to effectively zero?      5 "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote in message39 news:S6TD8.1370$fU2.201731@bin8.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com...f >e7 > "Nic Clews" <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1> wrote in message8% > news:3CDF9665.15C4EA38@127.0.0.1...t >  > ...r >oC > > Olson was the idiot who didn't believe in marketing, he thought J > > 'technology sells'. Well it did for a little while, but now look where* > > that lack of attention has got things. >i5 > Hey, shit-for-brains:  watch who you call an idiot.h >rK > That idiot brought *every great product that DEC ever created* to market: K > the PDP-8, -10, and -11, VAX, even Alpha; VMS (and a bunch of other greatp > OSs); clusters, ...e >aB > That idiot built up DEC from zero to the second largest computerH > manufacturer in the world with a good shot at becoming the largest, in lessL > than 30 years (and, indeed, without a great deal of marketing:  stick thatJ > where your opinions don't shine).  And when DEC fell from that pinnacle, itK > wasn't for lack of marketing, it was because of internal problems (mostlym1 > turf wars, arrogance, and a loss of direction).p >yL > Now, Olson's successors - clearly men without a smidgeon of his abilities,K > with the possible exception of Pfeiffer - certainly screwed up royally in G > failing to market the products they had inherited (and didn't do muchn with,aF > save for Alpha and to some extent Tru64).  But that's hardly Olson's fault. >  > - bill >  >w >e   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 14 May 2002 00:29:30 GMT # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>a' Subject: Re: Who cares about marketing! I Message-ID: <KTYD8.90015$GLp1.87696@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>    Bill,w   Markets change.p  E Maybe not the markets that we care to operate in (enterprise, bet theo+ business environments), but they do change.d  6 Think back. When did Digital's fortunes start to wane?  G A few years after PC's and other low/moderate cost boxes started to hit  desktops in meaningful ways.  K A few years after it started to be possible for nearly any manager to orderoC one or more $5-10,000 machines WITHOUT having to go through central  purchasing,  or being able to bypass IT.i  > And the guys pitching to those mangers were Sun and Microsoft.  F So now those guys who were playing footsie with Sun & Microsoft in theL early/mid-80's are now the senior managers/executives. They remember the old0 saying, "You dance with the one that brung you".  F Same things happened in academia when DEC priced themselves out of theL game - others jumped in at prices that DEC didn't want to compete at becauseJ they didn't want to take the short-term earnings hit. So instead they paidI the long-term price of corporate darwin-ism and evolved out of existence.   I Gotta keep Wall Street happy....keep those short-term earnings up....everCJ wonder how many fund managers who held DEC stock in 1986-87 timeframe whenF it hit $200 and traded at price parity with IBM wished that DEC didn't plummet to effectively zero?            5 "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote in messagei9 news:S6TD8.1370$fU2.201731@bin8.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com...a >v7 > "Nic Clews" <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1> wrote in messageq% > news:3CDF9665.15C4EA38@127.0.0.1...  >l > ...c >eC > > Olson was the idiot who didn't believe in marketing, he thoughtuJ > > 'technology sells'. Well it did for a little while, but now look where* > > that lack of attention has got things. >n5 > Hey, shit-for-brains:  watch who you call an idiot.e >pK > That idiot brought *every great product that DEC ever created* to market:oK > the PDP-8, -10, and -11, VAX, even Alpha; VMS (and a bunch of other great  > OSs); clusters, ...i >iB > That idiot built up DEC from zero to the second largest computerH > manufacturer in the world with a good shot at becoming the largest, in lessL > than 30 years (and, indeed, without a great deal of marketing:  stick thatJ > where your opinions don't shine).  And when DEC fell from that pinnacle, itK > wasn't for lack of marketing, it was because of internal problems (mostlye1 > turf wars, arrogance, and a loss of direction).n >oL > Now, Olson's successors - clearly men without a smidgeon of his abilities,K > with the possible exception of Pfeiffer - certainly screwed up royally inrG > failing to market the products they had inherited (and didn't do much- with,-F > save for Alpha and to some extent Tru64).  But that's hardly Olson's fault. >z > - bill >. >> >u   ------------------------------    Date: 13 May 2002 18:41:59 -0700. From: spamsink2001@yahoo.com (Alan E. Feldman)' Subject: Re: Who cares about marketing! = Message-ID: <b096a4ee.0205131741.7fb056ff@posting.google.com>s  { Doc.Cypher <Use-Author-Supplied-Address-Header@[127.1]> wrote in message news:<20020511132404.27903.qmail@gacracker.org>...h; > On 11 May 2002, bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski) wrote:k >  > <snip> >   > Re: Who cares about marketing?   [snip]  J > Anyway, didn't you notice that the lack of marketing is one of the areas? > where the majority of people in the newsgroup actually agree?r    A So what's your point? The majority of people once agreed that alle) heavenly bodies revolve around the earth.d  D Of course I agree with the majority in this case, but why should his7 disagreement with the majority be a reason not to post?h   Disclaimer: JMHO Alan E. Feldman " afeldman atski gfigroup dotski com   ------------------------------    Date: 13 May 2002 18:44:07 -0700. From: spamsink2001@yahoo.com (Alan E. Feldman)' Subject: Re: Who cares about marketing! = Message-ID: <b096a4ee.0205131744.60058916@posting.google.com>    Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <andrew_nospam.harrison_remove_this@sun#.com> wrote in message news:<aboa8p$20b$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>...  > Bob Ceculski wrote:  > @ > > The more I think about this, why do I care so much about theE > > mis-marketing of vms?  if hp like Q wants to keep quiet about the  [snip!] 8 > Don't just think of marketing as adverts if you do you > will miss the point entirely.i > 	 > Regards  > Andrew Harrison,  B That's all good and fine, but could you please go to the store and4 stock up on some punctuation characters? Thanks. :-)   Disclaimer: JMHO Alan E. Feldman " afeldman atski gfigroup dotski com   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 14 May 2002 02:40:28 +0100i' From: Elliott Roper <elliott@yrl.co.uk>h' Subject: Re: Who cares about marketing!b2 Message-ID: <140520020240284798%elliott@yrl.co.uk>  3 In article <3CDF9665.15C4EA38@127.0.0.1>, Nic Clews  <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1> wrote:c   <snip> > G > So why do I drive Lemons? Well, there's no way I'd want to be a Merc* F > driver, they are all the same, indicators never work on them and theH > lack of intelligence they are driven with, suggests their car choosingC > capacity must be equally challenged. Audi** drivers are arrogant,tC > Renaults I mentioned, and Ford, good grief, talk about mutton andd	 > lamb...l <snip> > ** Hi Elliott! :-)F  Anyone want to buy an ur-quattro with little bits of Citron paint on@ the corners? I'm off to hunt me some Citron BX's in Bolton  ;-)   Back on topic for a second.t  9 Let's cut the hp folk some slack for the first few weeks.   F Selling the virtues of VMS in this newsgroup is preaching to the choirG as has been noted by many others. Crying doom is counter-productive. WeoF can be realistic, but we need to act confident in the outside world ifE we want VMS to do better. I sure as hell want it to. It is my living.e  D I say let's go out and sell it. Unlike some other OS's I could name,# VMS won't let us down. Technically.   @ Let's use the good bits inside HPQ and help make 'em strong. I'm  thinking of CSA in particular.  G And a little less beating up on Fred. I sense he's getting ratty at us.nE Think for a second of what value he and his little knot of developersyD has to our wage packets. It is not his job to pass on our whining toG his bosses, nor is it his job to find acceptable words to explain theiraF apparent uncaring actions to us. It is his job to port VMS to whateverC irresistable silly name we call Itanium this week. It *is* going tomG work, and a lot of that will be down to Fred's knot. I wish I still hady it in me to write OS code.  C A bit of that Audi driving arrogance needs to be channelled into my  selling clobber I reckon.   G Ken O was pretty right. The technology does sell itself. Why is it that B Palmer and Pfeiffer and Capellas couldn't beat VMS to death with a stick?  H Hmm. Imagine the TV ad....Nah! hp wouldn't have the balls. No one would!  D Just like Apple can prosper with 4% market share, VMS can do OK as aE bombproof boutique OS. That's why Godotium** is attractive. We are no & longer betting on a long odds double.   F Imagine VMS with Apple's or Audi's marketing style. Audi does not hurtD Volkswagen sales. Quite the contrary. It is used to convince the low? margin customers that there are good engineers somewhere in thee= organisation. Why should VMS hurt hp's low margin base load?  G To take this not-too-serious metaphor a little further; hp now have NSKlF to fill the Bugatti role. Bugattis had a reputation for being NonStop.  > ...a bit like this rant. Oh well, let's go find Nic's Citron.  ( **irresistable ;-) I blame the Register.   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 14 May 2002 03:34:44 GMT * From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>' Subject: Re: Who cares about marketing!d? Message-ID: <oB%D8.4122$fU2.876830@bin8.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>   . "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> wrote in messageB news:FQYD8.89970$GLp1.1021@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com... > Bill,  >m > Markets change.e >hG > Maybe not the markets that we care to operate in (enterprise, bet theo- > business environments), but they do change.w >w8 > Think back. When did Digital's fortunes start to wane?  I Believe me, John, I'm *very* well aware of the times and conditions undero# which DEC's fortunes began to wane.h   >eI > A few years after PC's and other low/moderate cost boxes started to hitv > desktops in meaningful ways.  G Not very relevant, though:  DEC didn't compete there to any significanteK degree (though it did make attempts to at the time, which cost it over $500tA million in cash and what turned out to be largely-wasted effort).o   > G > A few years after it started to be possible for nearly any manager tol orderlB > one or more $5,000 machines WITHOUT having to go through central purchasing,t > or being able to bypass IT.d  H Again, not particularly relevant.  DEC may have lost some PDP-8 sales toE PCs, but that was not a significant factor in DEC's prosperity by they	 mid-'80s.y  K And don't forget that PCs really didn't have adequate networking back then:cF when businesses wanted systems that allowed people to *work with* eachH other, they still had to turn to the kinds of centralized configurations that DEC sold.  K DEC could have best profited from the PC revolution by concentrating on its L ability to network PCs to proprietary servers better than anyone else could.K Producing them was secondary:  if DEC could have done so competitively backsD then, fine, but when it became obvious that DEC couldn't (and that aI compatible standard had been defined that would not give that business toeF any other single competitor anyway) it could just have backed away and7 concentrated on adding value to the thingy on the desk.l   > @ > And the guys pitching to those mangers were Sun and Microsoft.  H Microsoft certainly pitched (largely isolated) desktops, but Sun didn't:J they pitched workstations, and that *did* cut into DEC's revenue.  But notK because of lack of marketing on DEC's part:  it was simply the arrogance togH believe that it didn't have to compete on price because it had a lock on that market.   >eH > So now those guys who were playing footsie with Sun & Microsoft in theJ > early/mid-80's are now the senior managers/executives. They remember the olds2 > saying, "You dance with the one that brung you".  K That applies a lot more to Sun than to Microsoft, since PCs were useful for J very little beyond stand-alone work (and continued to be right through theE time at least a lot of those college guys became executives, with themJ possible exception of Novell networking).  And as noted, Sun was a problem- because of pricing, not because of marketing.i   >sH > Same things happened in academia when DEC priced themselves out of theF > game - others jumped in at prices that DEC didn't want to compete at becauseeL > they didn't want to take the short-term earnings hit. So instead they paidK > the long-term price of corporate darwin-ism and evolved out of existence.,  I Yup - DEC certainly blew academia, and paid a high price.  Now, you could L place academic programs in the realm of marketing, but that's one of the fewG marketing activities that DEC was doing *well* before the mid-'80s.  SorJ while dropping such programs was indeed a mistake, it falls more under theJ 'loss of direction' category than under any 'general marketing ineptitude' rubric.i   >hK > Gotta keep Wall Street happy....keep those short-term earnings up....ever L > wonder how many fund managers who held DEC stock in 1986-87 timeframe whenH > it hit $200 and traded at price parity with IBM wished that DEC didn't > plummet to effectively zero?  H While before the late '80s DEC never had any trouble keeping Wall StreetI happy even without much marketing, it also never particularly gave a damn I whether Wall Street was happy or not:  DEC had *gobs* of cash on hand andu" virtually no debt in the mid-'80s.   - bill   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 14 May 2002 04:09:30 GMTs* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>' Subject: Re: Who cares about marketing!s? Message-ID: <_50E8.5445$Tj3.856761@bin6.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>e  4 "Elliott Roper" <elliott@yrl.co.uk> wrote in message, news:140520020240284798%elliott@yrl.co.uk...   ...r  H > Selling the virtues of VMS in this newsgroup is preaching to the choirI > as has been noted by many others. Crying doom is counter-productive. WepH > can be realistic, but we need to act confident in the outside world ifG > we want VMS to do better. I sure as hell want it to. It is my living.  >nF > I say let's go out and sell it. Unlike some other OS's I could name,% > VMS won't let us down. Technically.m >a  B What you are advocating is morally questionable.  It boils down toK convincing new customers that VMS is a solider long-term investment than itoL actually seems (to insiders) to be, in the hopes that the resulting swellingH of the ranks will bolster its viability.  That would be ethical if thereK were some *guarantee* that VMS's owner *would* react in the manner you hopetJ and that the risks you're advocating concealing from these innocents wouldK in fact thus become minimal, but there's really no way to be at all sure oftL that - and hence hiding the risks from those you would 'sell it' to is not a nice thing to do.   B > Let's use the good bits inside HPQ and help make 'em strong. I'm  > thinking of CSA in particular.I > And a little less beating up on Fred. I sense he's getting ratty at us.eG > Think for a second of what value he and his little knot of developersxF > has to our wage packets. It is not his job to pass on our whining toI > his bosses, nor is it his job to find acceptable words to explain their0" > apparent uncaring actions to us.  H And it's also not his job to rise up and vigorously defend the extremelyK dubious actions his company has engaged in.  If he hadn't done that, no onei would be beating him up for it.n   ...a  I > Ken O was pretty right. The technology does sell itself. Why is it thataD > Palmer and Pfeiffer and Capellas couldn't beat VMS to death with a > stick?  G Careful - there seems to be considerable indication that Pfeiffer was a  friend of Alpha and VMS.  J Other than that, I tend to agree:  if DEC hadn't dropped the ball about 15I years ago, it would have been pretty much on top of the world now without F much more marketing that it ever did.  Which is not to say that *with*4 decent marketing it couldn't have risen even higher.  J I suspect those who feel that DEC couldn't possibly have succeeded withoutK significantly changing its marketing may be relative youngsters who believelK that marketing was invented within their own memory.  In reality, marketing1H was a *very* well-understood activity when DEC was founded in 1957:  DECF went its own way and managed very well indeed without it for nearly 30E years, and could have continued to do so had it not lost its sense ofh
 direction.   >gJ > Hmm. Imagine the TV ad....Nah! hp wouldn't have the balls. No one would! >aF > Just like Apple can prosper with 4% market share, VMS can do OK as a= > bombproof boutique OS. That's why Godotium** is attractive.t  K The problem is that the bright people who run cHumPaq may not be interested J in a 'boutique' OS that doesn't grow and diverts attention from the thingsD that they (for whatever 'strategic' reasons) care about.  So even ifJ customers were willing to pay ever-increasing prices for VMS's continuanceK those powers that be might still decide that its profits just weren't worthi the bother - and 'bye-'bye VMS.    - bill   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 14 May 2002 00:36:58 GMTe) From: rob.buxton@wcc.govt.nz (Rob Buxton)nW Subject: Re: Windows 2000 Server drops off the network after upgrading Advanced  Serverd/ Message-ID: <3ce059ee.3532779@news.wcc.govt.nz>t  E On Mon, 13 May 2002 10:42:04 +1000, Jeremy <jeremy@vsm.com.au> wrote:h   >Hi, >tM >The local network has an AlphaServer DS20E running Advanced Server, and a PCt! >running Windows 2000 Server SP2.n > H >Until yesterday the VMS system was running VMS 7.2 and A/S 7.2, and theH >Windows 2000 server could map network drives to shares provided by VMS. >cH >Since upgrading the VMS system to VMS 7.3 with Advanced Server 7.3, theJ >Windows 2000 server can no longer map to the VMS shares, and it can't seeF >any other computers on the local network.  All PCs, including the W2KI >server, are configured to use a local workgroup name, not a domain name.r >e >Any thoughts or suggestions?  >eA Have you upgraded the Pathworks License?  This will need the 7.03i variant of the license.e  3 From ADMIN, can you log onto the Domain Controller?m  6 Turn on OPCOM and see if there are any error messages.  A Worst case, you may need to drop and re-enter the Domain Details.T* To do this you close down Advanced Server,& Run the pwrk$config Command Procedure.@ On the first run through you change the Domain to something thatE doesn't exist. Save the parameters but don't start AS. Then rerun the # config with the correct parameters.b  / I think there's a full quide on this somewhere.   @ I'm running Pathworks 6.1. The transistion from 6.0 to 6.1 is, ID believe, similar to AS 7.2 to 7.3. One thing I've had problems is PW9 Stopping because of exhausted KNBs, to overcome this I'vet- significantly updated the number of Cliients.u     >Thanks, > 
 >	Jeremy Beggl   ------------------------------   Date: 13 May 02 20:04:14 +0200) From: p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture)i& Subject: Re: [announce] FreeVMS 0.0.14) Message-ID: <$TxJdpi46+2h@elias.decus.ch>a  [ In article <3CDEC461.DD7548EF@fsi.net>, "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> writes:o > Tom Linden wrote:S >> 1< >> So are you proposing to write the code in C, translate toA >> Macro/32 and then assemble?  Why not also wear handcuffs while4B >> you are writing the code.  How are you going to debug the code? > ) > I think you're still missing the point.n > I > A. A particular piece of freeware that I could find useful is available ( > as C source only, for whatever reason. > J > B. I intend to use the software in a commercial (for profit) environmentJ > but don't have/can't afford a C license and - for obvious resons - can'tG > use a hobbyist licensed system to do the compile (to be linked on thei > target system).b > J > C. If a reliable C->Macro/32 translator were available, I would at least$ > still be able to use the software. > ; > *THAT* is the point. Debugging is another issue entirely.l >   J Is a proper VMS license plus GNU possible? Another alternative would be toN consider renting machine time from someone who is properly licensed. Would theC Test Drive scheme be any use? (Dunno about that, I haven't looked).o   Just my 0.02 __
 Paul Sture Switzerland    ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2002.265 ************************