1 INFO-VAX	Tue, 14 May 2002	Volume 2002 : Issue 266       Contents:6 $CHECK_ACCESS fails if there is no read access to file: Re: $CHECK_ACCESS fails if there is no read access to file: Re: $CHECK_ACCESS fails if there is no read access to file  Re: 32 bit and 64 bit referencesC A (free) VMS environment in a Linux/Unix system ?, was: Re: freeVMS G Re: A (free) VMS environment in a Linux/Unix system ?, was: Re: freeVMS & Re: Alpha to ia64: where is the issue?& Re: Alpha to ia64: where is the issue? Re: Backup problem Re: Backup problem3 Re: Capellas: Linux, Windows Will 'Eviscerate' Unix  Re: disk geometry and shadowing  Re: disk geometry and shadowing  Re: disk geometry and shadowing  Re: disk geometry and shadowing  Re: disk geometry and shadowing - RE: Forced migration to HPHUX - Storm Warning - Re: Forced migration to HPHUX - Storm Warning - RE: Forced migration to HPHUX - Storm Warning - Re: Forced migration to HPHUX - Storm Warning - Re: Forced migration to HPHUX - Storm Warning - Re: Forced migration to HPHUX - Storm Warning - Re: Forced migration to HPHUX - Storm Warning  ftp process failures...  Re: ftp process failures... & Re: High Water Concurrent Users Count?& Re: High Water Concurrent Users Count?+ Re: howto create self-extracting zip files? + Re: howto create self-extracting zip files? + Re: howto create self-extracting zip files? + Re: howto create self-extracting zip files? @ Most unusual resident in a system ?, was: Re: No new Alpha salesD Re: Most unusual resident in a system ?, was: Re: No new Alpha salesD Re: Most unusual resident in a system ?, was: Re: No new Alpha sales) Re: Network device for wide area clusters ) Re: Network device for wide area clusters F Re: new academic programme (was: RE: Bob Palmer and the demise of DEC)/ Re: new academic programme and Hobbist licenses  Re: No new Alpha sales Re: No new Alpha sales Re: No new Alpha sales? Re: Old RAID 230 logical init very slow (63% done after 5 days) / OpenVMS makes it in the "Sydney Morning Herald" O Reads vs. Writes (was Re: What is good model for disk i/o w        /shadowing?) 3 Re: Scott Stallard, forget your VMS to HP UX dream! 3 Re: Scott Stallard, forget your VMS to HP UX dream! 3 Re: Scott Stallard, forget your VMS to HP UX dream! D Secure Software Distribution (was: howto create self-extracting zip)H Re: Secure Software Distribution (was: howto create self-extracting zip)H Re: Secure Software Distribution (was: howto create self-extracting zip)H RE: Secure Software Distribution (was: howto create self-extracting zip)H RE: Secure Software Distribution (was: howto create self-extracting zip)
 Re: Show Comm 
 Re: Show Comm " Re: simple disk-shadowing question" Re: simple disk-shadowing question+ Re: Some more words of wisdom from Capellas + Re: Some more words of wisdom from Capellas 1 Re: SOT: Yo Andrew, you guys on a roll this week? 1 Re: SOT: Yo Andrew, you guys on a roll this week? 1 Re: SOT: Yo Andrew, you guys on a roll this week?  Re: Stallards smoking gun! Re: Stallards smoking gun! Re: Switching the console mode System manager available Re: System manager available Re: System manager available Re: System manager available Re: System manager available RE: Tivoli ABC for VMS RE: Tivoli ABC for VMS Two questions with fetch_http.c 0 Re: What is good model for disk i/o w/shadowing? Re: Who cares about marketing! Re: Who cares about marketing! Re: Who cares about marketing! Re: Who cares about marketing! Re: Who cares about marketing! Re: Who cares about marketing! Re: Who cares about marketing! Re: Who cares about marketing! Re: Who cares about marketing! Re: [announce] FreeVMS 0.0.14   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------    Date: 14 May 2002 05:26:37 -0700 From: cbdeja@my-deja.com (-)? Subject: $CHECK_ACCESS fails if there is no read access to file = Message-ID: <611952a3.0205140426.6a48acba@posting.google.com>   B I'm trying to use SYS$CHECK_ACCESS on one of our machines which is running an old version of VMS.  B SYS$CHECK_ACCESS only seems to work if you have read access to the= file in question. If you do NOT have read access to the file,  SYS$CHECK_ACCESS always  returns SYS$_NOCALLPRIV.  C Why should this be? Does the process need some special privilege to > work when you don't have read access to the file - if so what?  F On the Alpha running OpenVMS 5.5 this call ALWAYS succeeds whether you@ have read access or not! Why is there a difference in behaviour?   Thanks   Colin    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 14 May 2002 13:18:51 GMT 2 From: Mike Rechtman <michael.rechtman@digital.com>C Subject: Re: $CHECK_ACCESS fails if there is no read access to file + Message-ID: <3CE136F9.1A1EDA3A@digital.com>   H > On the Alpha running OpenVMS 5.5 this call ALWAYS succeeds whether youB > have read access or not! Why is there a difference in behaviour?  D Backup your system disk ASAP - you've got the only copy of Alpha VMS 5.5!!     E --------------------------------------------------------------------- E Usual disclaimer: All opinions are mine alone, perhaps not even that. ? Mike Rechtman                            *rechtman@tzora.co.il* F Kibbutz Tzor'a.                          Voice (home): 972-2-9908337  B   "20% of a job takes 80% of the time, the rest takes another 80%"E ---------------------------------------------------------------------  -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----  Version: 3.1: GCM/CS d(-)pu s:+>:- a++ C++ U-- L-- W++ N++ K? w--- V+++$6 PS+ PE-- t 5? X- tv-- b+ DI+ D-- G e++ h--- r+++ y+++@ ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------    ------------------------------    Date: 14 May 2002 08:38:00 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) C Subject: Re: $CHECK_ACCESS fails if there is no read access to file 3 Message-ID: <GEYCJlR5V9tL@eisner.encompasserve.org>   \ In article <611952a3.0205140426.6a48acba@posting.google.com>, cbdeja@my-deja.com (-) writes:D > I'm trying to use SYS$CHECK_ACCESS on one of our machines which is  > running an old version of VMS. > D > SYS$CHECK_ACCESS only seems to work if you have read access to the? > file in question. If you do NOT have read access to the file,  > SYS$CHECK_ACCESS always  > returns SYS$_NOCALLPRIV. > E > Why should this be? Does the process need some special privilege to @ > work when you don't have read access to the file - if so what?  @ Without read access, you are not allowed to know what protection@ settings are for the file.   The description of SYS$CHECK_ACCESS starts with:    6 	"Determines on behalf of a third-party user whether a. 	 named user can access the object specified."  = The third party must be able to read the protection settings.    ------------------------------    Date: 14 May 2002 04:53:31 -0700 From: cbdeja@my-deja.com (-)) Subject: Re: 32 bit and 64 bit references = Message-ID: <611952a3.0205140353.24814bf7@posting.google.com>   6 "Richard Brodie" <R.Brodie@rl.ac.uk> wrote in message F > It doesn't need to; they are passed by reference. The system serviceL > can check the MBO fields and figure out which structure you have supplied.> > All it needs to do is to sign extend the address, if 32-bit.   Thanks Richard.    Regards,   Colin    ------------------------------    Date: 14 May 2002 07:26:21 -0600B From: clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP (Simon Clubley)L Subject: A (free) VMS environment in a Linux/Unix system ?, was: Re: freeVMS3 Message-ID: <t8SPRmsIy9NZ@eisner.encompasserve.org>   d In article <D%_D8.32963$Po6.14971@rwcrnsc52.ops.asp.att.net>, "Ed Wilts" <ewilts@ewilts.org> writes:K > Clone?  Yah right...  Not to take away from the developers working on the K > project, but they're a *LONG* way from even getting close to what VMS 1.0  > delivered. >   I I really like what they are doing and hope that they succeed, but I can't G help wondering if the best short term approach might be to provide some : kind of a VMS environment on Linux and other Unix systems.   What do others think ?  H If you agree, then what do you think the most important parts of the VMS; environment are to get running on these platforms and why ?    Simon.   --  B Simon Clubley, clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP       + Microsoft: The Lada of the computing world.    ------------------------------  + Date: Tue, 14 May 2002 13:13:18 +0000 (UTC) 9 From: Roar =?iso-8859-1?Q?Thron=E6s?= <roart@nvg.ntnu.no> P Subject: Re: A (free) VMS environment in a Linux/Unix system ?, was: Re: freeVMS- Message-ID: <abr2he$5ia$1@tyfon.itea.ntnu.no>   C Simon Clubley <clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-earth.ufp> wrote: ( : "Ed Wilts" <ewilts@ewilts.org> writes:  K : I really like what they are doing and hope that they succeed, but I can't I : help wondering if the best short term approach might be to provide some < : kind of a VMS environment on Linux and other Unix systems.   : What do others think ?  J : If you agree, then what do you think the most important parts of the VMS= : environment are to get running on these platforms and why ?   8 You want something like http://www.accelr8.com/dcl.html?  - Descriptors? (Have been there for some years)    Something deeper down?   --   -Roar    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 14 May 2002 10:22:10 +0200 5 From: Martin Knoblauch <Martin.Knoblauch@teraport.de> / Subject: Re: Alpha to ia64: where is the issue? 5 Message-ID: <abqhfi$kgsrg$2@ID-115181.news.dfncis.de>    jlsue wrote:  1 > On Fri, 10 May 2002 15:52:13 +0200, Arne Vajhj ! > <arne.vajhoej@gtech.com> wrote:  >  >>Didier Morandi wrote: I >>> What is to you the main problem(s) about the Alpha to ia64 migration?  >>6 >>Huge business problem: when a manager hear about the5 >>"migrate from VMS Alpha to VMS IA-64" plan, then he , >>would be very tempted to replace it with a0 >>"migrate from VMS Alpha to Windows IA-64" plan6 >>or a "migrate from VMS Alpha to Solaris SPARC" plan. > < > Even if the migration to VMS IA-64 is a simple re-compile?: > Has this manager really done a cost analysis of porting? >   K  any somewhat respectable software will at least need to do QA in addition  E to recompiling. and some documentation ... And some training for the   support folks ...   L  And for the customers it work out only if *all* applications are available F on the new platform. If some are missing, or going to replacements is 3 "nontrivial", one can as well switch everything :-(    Martin --  B ------------------------------------------------------------------B Martin Knoblauch         |    email:  Martin.Knoblauch@TeraPort.de7 TeraPort GmbH            |    Phone:  +49-89-510857-309 7 C+ITS                    |    Fax:    +49-89-510857-111 5 http://www.teraport.de   |    Mobile: +49-170-4904759    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 14 May 2002 14:34:58 +0200 = From: Arne =?iso-8859-1?Q?Vajh=F8j?= <arne.vajhoej@gtech.com> / Subject: Re: Alpha to ia64: where is the issue? ) Message-ID: <3CE10471.739AACB5@gtech.com>    jlsue wrote:1 > On Fri, 10 May 2002 15:52:13 +0200, Arne Vajhj ! > <arne.vajhoej@gtech.com> wrote:  > >Didier Morandi wrote:J > >> What is to you the main problem(s) about the Alpha to ia64 migration? > > 7 > >Huge business problem: when a manager hear about the 6 > >"migrate from VMS Alpha to VMS IA-64" plan, then he- > >would be very tempted to replace it with a 1 > >"migrate from VMS Alpha to Windows IA-64" plan 7 > >or a "migrate from VMS Alpha to Solaris SPARC" plan.  > < > Even if the migration to VMS IA-64 is a simple re-compile?: > Has this manager really done a cost analysis of porting?   Yes. No.   Two reasons:A   1) many managers do not really understand the technical aspects @   2) even if it is just a re-compile, then there are still costs7      (hardware and software purchase, testing etc.etc.)    Arne   ------------------------------   Date: 14 May 2002 07:45:11 GMT3 From: gartmann@immunbio.mpg.de (Christoph Gartmann)  Subject: Re: Backup problem 0 Message-ID: <abqfa7$ifi$1@n.ruf.uni-freiburg.de>  v In article <EF1DC894691AD5118AF000508BB85FDE034CC607@AMCLVX11>, "Lucas, Edward A (SAIC)" <Edward.Lucas@bp.com> writes:K >Has anyone experienced a problem where the backup needs to continue on the I >second tape and once the first tape is finished the second tape does not  >seem to get loaded. > K >My systems are in Tulsa OK and I am in Cleveland Ohio.  With the settings, I >my thinking is that the first tape finished and never grabbed the second  >tape. > F >I wish I new of a way I can confirm if the tape was even loaded.  The1 >operators in Tulsa are just like little robots.   >  >Followed is are the settings: > L >Magtape OMEGA$MKC600:, device type TZ89, is online, record-oriented device,J >    file-oriented device, available to cluster, error logging is enabled,; >    controller supports compaction (compaction  disabled).  > = >    Error count                    0    Operations completed 
 >1731816792 >    Owner process                 ""    Owner UIC	 >[SYSTEM] 1 >    Owner process ID        00000000    Dev Prot  >S:RWPL,O:RWPL,G:R,W< >    Reference count                0    Default buffer size >512/ >    Density                  unknown    Format 
 >Normal-11J >    Host name                "OMEGA"    Host type, avail AlphaServer 8200 >5/625,  > yes  > H >  Volume status:  no-unload on dismount, beginning-of-tape, odd parity.  C Is there a logfile of the backup? Did you see any console messages?    Regards,    Christoph Gartmann   H -- --------------------------------------------------------------------+H | Max-Planck-Institut fuer      Phone   : +49-761-5108-464   Fax: -452 |H | Immunbiologie                                                        |H | Postfach 1169                 Internet: gartmann@immunbio.mpg.de     |H | D-79011  Freiburg, Germany                                           |H +--------- http://www.immunbio.mpg.de/home/english/menue.html ---------+   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 14 May 2002 09:00:58 -0400 1 From: "Mark D. Jilson" <jilly@clarityconnect.com>  Subject: Re: Backup problem 1 Message-ID: <3CE10A8A.47539F5@clarityconnect.com>   ; What version of VMS and are you up to date on your patches?    "Lucas, Edward A (SAIC)" wrote:  > L > Has anyone experienced a problem where the backup needs to continue on theJ > second tape and once the first tape is finished the second tape does not > seem to get loaded.  > L > My systems are in Tulsa OK and I am in Cleveland Ohio.  With the settings,J > my thinking is that the first tape finished and never grabbed the second > tape.  > G > I wish I new of a way I can confirm if the tape was even loaded.  The 1 > operators in Tulsa are just like little robots.  >  > Followed is are the settings:  > M > Magtape OMEGA$MKC600:, device type TZ89, is online, record-oriented device, K >     file-oriented device, available to cluster, error logging is enabled, < >     controller supports compaction (compaction  disabled). > > >     Error count                    0    Operations completed > 173181679 3 >     Owner process                 ""    Owner UIC 
 > [SYSTEM]2 >     Owner process ID        00000000    Dev Prot > S:RWPL,O:RWPL,G:R,W = >     Reference count                0    Default buffer size  > 512 0 >     Density                  unknown    Format > Normal-11 K >     Host name                "OMEGA"    Host type, avail AlphaServer 8200  > 5/625, >  yes > I >   Volume status:  no-unload on dismount, beginning-of-tape, odd parity.  >    --  C Jilly	- Working from Home in the Chemung River Valley - Waverly, NY 0 	- jilly@clarityconnect.com			- Brett Bodine fan+ 	- Mark.Jilson@HP.com				- since 1975 or so  	- http://www.jilly.baka.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 14 May 2002 18:03:04 +0100 U From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <andrew_nospam.harrison_remove_this@sun#.com> < Subject: Re: Capellas: Linux, Windows Will 'Eviscerate' Unix0 Message-ID: <abrg09$1df$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   Bob Koehler wrote:   > In article <abgrtf$1ib$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <andrew_nospam.harrison_remove_this@sun#.com> writes: >  >>MPE has clusters >> >> > > >    Yeah, right.  MPE has clusters like Solaris has clusters. > I >    Back to reality:  HP has clusters.  Back when DEC still existed, HP  G >    said VMS clusters ARE the definitive implementation and that they K) >    would like to have as good in HP-UX.  >     : Nope OpenVMS clusters are not the definitive cluster, they= represent on strand of cluster developement. There are others26 IBM Sysplex, BeoWolf, Application Server Clusters etc.  C Understanding this might help you understand why not everyone needsi< or apsires to having an OpenVMS cluster in their datacenter.   Regardsh Andrew        ------------------------------  + Date: Tue, 14 May 2002 12:48:04 +0100 (MET)a9 From: Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>o( Subject: Re: disk geometry and shadowing; Message-ID: <01KHPVGD52XU99DNNX@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>e   > >    Total blocks  > >  > >    Sectors per track > >  > >    Total cylinders > >  > >    Tracks per cylinder > >  > H > Recent experience would indicate that total block count is a key item.  H OK.  But JUST the same total-block count is not enough, i.e. I need all   four items above to be the same?   > The newer HSG firmware e  ! Sorry, host-based shadowing here.a   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 14 May 2002 06:02:52 -0700t6 From: "Howard Taylor" <Howard.Taylor@pacificcoast.net>( Subject: Re: disk geometry and shadowing  Message-ID: <3ce10976$1@nubby2.>  I > OK.  But JUST the same total-block count is not enough, i.e. I need all " > four items above to be the same? > C Nope, just the same total block count is all you need. We have usedeD Diskmaker (by ASCI software) to create disk partitions which we haveI shadowed with "real" disks even though the cylinder and track counts werew
 different.  
 Howard Taylort   ------------------------------   Date: 14 MAY 2002 13:33:12 GMT4 From: karcher@thuria.waisman.wisc.edu (Carl Karcher)( Subject: Re: disk geometry and shadowing6 Message-ID: <14MAY02.13331270@thuria.waisman.wisc.edu>  Q In a previous article, Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> wrote:s ->> >    Total blocks  ->> >  ->> >    Sectors per track ->> >  ->> >    Total cylinders ->> >  ->> >    Tracks per cylinder ->> >  ->> J ->> Recent experience would indicate that total block count is a key item. -> oJ ->OK.  But JUST the same total-block count is not enough, i.e. I need all " ->four items above to be the same? ->  # ->Sorry, host-based shadowing here.w -> i  H That used to be the case (geometry had to be identical). But for a whileE now I think the disk size is all that matters (need have at least theiH same number of blocks of the disk you are trying to shadow). It's in the# manuals or release notes somewhere.t   --G -- Carl Karcher, Waisman Computing Services, Waisman Center, UW-Madisonn2 --                      karcher@waisman.wisc.edu     ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 14 May 2002 17:33:34 +0100 ! From: John Laird <john@yrl.co.uk> ( Subject: Re: disk geometry and shadowing8 Message-ID: <tse2eu4b8fp25iocj9191ej5m3pvovvege@4ax.com>  8 On Tue, 14 May 2002 12:48:04 +0100 (MET), Phillip Helbig+ <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> wrote:o   >> >    Total blocks >> > e >> >    Sectors per track  >> > t >> >    Total cylinders  >> > m >> >    Tracks per cylinderm >> > a >> bI >> Recent experience would indicate that total block count is a key item.h >tI >OK.  But JUST the same total-block count is not enough, i.e. I need all  ! >four items above to be the same?k >n >> The newer HSG firmware  >n" >Sorry, host-based shadowing here.  E Check the various 7.x release notes, Phillip.  I'm almost certain theaL identical geometry requirement was dropped in favour of a simple block countI test.  No doubt prompted by the trend amongst disk manufacturers to start-J telling untruths about geometry either to satisfy cylinder count limits orL to acknowledge that modern disks *don't* have cylinders of the same capacity% from inner edge to outer edge anyway.2 -- 4
 John Laird Yezerski Roper Ltd   ------------------------------    Date: 14 May 2002 12:29:47 -0600+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young)_( Subject: Re: disk geometry and shadowing3 Message-ID: <GcarEHT1JUFu@eisner.encompasserve.org>r  m In article <14MAY02.13331270@thuria.waisman.wisc.edu>, karcher@thuria.waisman.wisc.edu (Carl Karcher) writes:eS > In a previous article, Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> wrote:- > ->> >    Total blocksp > ->> >  > ->> >    Sectors per track > ->> >  > ->> >    Total cylinders > ->> >  > ->> >    Tracks per cylinder > ->> >  > ->> L > ->> Recent experience would indicate that total block count is a key item. > -> rL > ->OK.  But JUST the same total-block count is not enough, i.e. I need all $ > ->four items above to be the same? > -> s% > ->Sorry, host-based shadowing here.  > -> n > J > That used to be the case (geometry had to be identical). But for a whileG > now I think the disk size is all that matters (need have at least theyJ > same number of blocks of the disk you are trying to shadow). It's in the% > manuals or release notes somewhere.- >-  < 	Creative, well-reasoned requests for enhancements do not goG 	overlooked by VMS engineering.  Among others, you can give some credithB 	to Ed Wilts for requesting just this.. i.e. LBN counts same, diff! 	geometries to be shadow members.   N http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=1999Jan19.010748.1%40eisner&output=gplain   Ed Wilts recently wrote:  G Actually, the single larger disk did make a difference in the geometry.-H I created 2 raidsets, 1 containing 5 Seagate Hawks, and one containing 4B Seagate Hawks plus 1 Seagate Barracuda.  The Barracuda is slightlyG larger than a Hawk.  The smallest member was definitely used to control A the size of the raidset, since the resultant number of blocks wasSE identical.  However, the device geometries was different.  However, IiF can't shadow the two sets, and have to recreate the raidsets.  I don'tF think I can do that without destroying the data on them.  All the HSJs  D are -50's, running 5.2.  The 2 pairs of HSJ's were shipped together,: with the same firmware, and installed a month or so apart.    7         On January 14, 1999 this DSN article showed up:e  L *OpenVMS, STORAGE] ALPSHAD08_062 Alpha V6.2 - V6.2-1H3 Shadowing ECO Summary  K         It says you can shadow devices with identical total blocks.  Tracks J         cylinders, sectors (geometry) is no longer a requirement.  SeveralJ         cousins of SHAD08 are in DSN discussing other 6.2 versions.  Maybe$         7.1 and others show up soon.   				Robt   ====  \ http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=1994May11.222146.3985%40vmsmail.gov.bc.ca&output=gplain   Newsgroups: comp.os.vms  Subject: Re: VOLUME SHADOWINGp5 Message-ID: <1994May11.222146.3985@vmsmail.gov.bc.ca>  Date: 11 May 94 22:21:46 PDT! Reply-To: EWILTS@GALAXY.GOV.BC.CA   6 In article <1994May10.203430.8715@nntpd2.cxo.dec.com>,8 lastovica@decwrl::.enet.dec.com (Norm Lastovica) writes: > N > In article <94051012374612@tvss2.commnet.edu>, sep@tvss2.commnet.edu (Steven$ Pudlo, Dept. Computer Svcs.) writes:I >>The disks are SCSI. Number 1 is an RZ57, 1954050 total blocks, Number 2.H >>is listed as a "Generic SCSI disk" when I do a show dev/full on it. It >>shows 2050860 total blocks.  > 9 > 	in order to volume shadow disks on VMS, the disks must1B > be exactly the same type and report the same geometry (number of= > blocks, sectors, etc).  what you've got won't work I think.m  L In my discussions with the volume shadowing developers, this will *never* beN fixed and will remain a limitation.  There are third-party shadowing products,M and I even think Glenn Everhart put one in the Decus library, that will allows! you to shadow dissimilar devices.e   -- *I Ed Wilts, BC Systems, 4000 Seymour Place, Victoria, B.C., Canada, V8X 4S8eI EWilts@Galaxy.Gov.BC.CA     Office:  (604) 389-3430   Fax: (604) 389-3412p  N Disclaimer: The opinions and statements contained in this posting are the soleN responsibility of the author and have not in any way been reviewed or approved& by my employer or any network service.   =====n  A 	Maybe we can also be encouraged as this was "never" supposed to	  	happen.  They do listen.    				Robb   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 14 May 2002 07:55:51 -0500d/ From: "Stuart, Ed" <Ed.Stuart@austinenergy.com>-6 Subject: RE: Forced migration to HPHUX - Storm WarningT Message-ID: <92EFB80E551BD511B39500D0B7B0CDCC0642C40B@ohms.electric.ci.austin.tx.us>  L The "Special Edition of the TRU64 UNIX and OpenVMS Times" has been modified.' The OpenVMS/HP-UX migration Q&A is now:e  & Q: For OpenVMS customers who have made) a firm decision to move to UNIX, will you.  offer a migration path to HP-UX?  1 A: Yes. For our OpenVMS customers who have made aa2 decision to move to UNIX, we believe that HP-UX is4 an excellent choice, and we will work with them on a2 migration plan and provide tools and services that$ can help ensure a smooth transition.  F Looks like the folks at the new HP read those emails that were sent by OpenVMS advocates.   -->EdmE **Please apply a generous amount of all the usual disclaimers here.**?      > -----Original Message-----< > From: djweath@attglobal.net [mailto:djweath@attglobal.net]% > Sent: Sunday, May 12, 2002 12:45 AMu > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com 8 > Subject: Re: Forced migration to HPHUX - Storm Warning >  > 3 > On Fri, 10 May 2002 11:32:02 UTC, Paul Repacholi    > <prep@prep.synonet.com> wrote: > 3 > > djweath@attglobal.net (Dave Weatherall) writes:3 > > H > > > Now I'm getting confused (no I haven't read the roadmap - too busy* > > > working - today's a public holiday). > >  > > .... > > E > > > Q2. Is this conversion from endian-ness really so simple as allt- > > > these statements about migration imply?l > > H > > Really Dave. It is dirt easy, you call in you IT manager and say "We> > > are changing over to the new Foo-fucked69 systems. I want 
 > you to havep > > it all done by Monday."t > > ; > > He then goes off and enjoyes his holliday and week-end.  > >  > 
 > Figures :-)o > # > Thanks to all the other guys too.o >  > -  > Cheers - Dave. >    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 14 May 2002 09:06:34 -0500i1 From: "Dave Gudewicz" <david.gudewicz@abbott.com>s6 Subject: Re: Forced migration to HPHUX - Storm Warning1 Message-ID: <abr5q5$fhj$1@fizban.pprd.abbott.com>g  ? Thanks for the update.  Sounds better than the first go-around.y From one of the half-full......-   -- Dave...-  ) Adam and Eve had many advantages, but the - principle one was that they escaped teething.o -----Mark Twaine  : "Stuart, Ed" <Ed.Stuart@austinenergy.com> wrote in messageL news:92EFB80E551BD511B39500D0B7B0CDCC0642C40B@ohms.electric.ci.austin.tx.us. ..D > The "Special Edition of the TRU64 UNIX and OpenVMS Times" has been	 modified.a) > The OpenVMS/HP-UX migration Q&A is now:5 >?( > Q: For OpenVMS customers who have made+ > a firm decision to move to UNIX, will you " > offer a migration path to HP-UX? >c3 > A: Yes. For our OpenVMS customers who have made a+4 > decision to move to UNIX, we believe that HP-UX is6 > an excellent choice, and we will work with them on a4 > migration plan and provide tools and services that& > can help ensure a smooth transition. >aH > Looks like the folks at the new HP read those emails that were sent by > OpenVMS advocates. >e > -->EdwG > **Please apply a generous amount of all the usual disclaimers here.**a >f >  > > -----Original Message-----> > > From: djweath@attglobal.net [mailto:djweath@attglobal.net]' > > Sent: Sunday, May 12, 2002 12:45 AMs > > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.ComN: > > Subject: Re: Forced migration to HPHUX - Storm Warning > >h > >h4 > > On Fri, 10 May 2002 11:32:02 UTC, Paul Repacholi" > > <prep@prep.synonet.com> wrote: > >e5 > > > djweath@attglobal.net (Dave Weatherall) writes:- > > >-J > > > > Now I'm getting confused (no I haven't read the roadmap - too busy, > > > > working - today's a public holiday). > > > 
 > > > .... > > >DG > > > > Q2. Is this conversion from endian-ness really so simple as all0/ > > > > these statements about migration imply?( > > ><J > > > Really Dave. It is dirt easy, you call in you IT manager and say "We? > > > are changing over to the new Foo-fucked69 systems. I wanta > > you to havee > > > it all done by Monday."o > > >a= > > > He then goes off and enjoyes his holliday and week-end.o > > >  > >e > > Figures :-)n > >i% > > Thanks to all the other guys too.r > >b > > -s > > Cheers - Dave. > >s   ------------------------------    Date: 14 May 2002 09:49:19 -0600+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) 6 Subject: RE: Forced migration to HPHUX - Storm Warning3 Message-ID: <Vyd$RbbMUmGd@eisner.encompasserve.org>d  : "Stuart, Ed" <Ed.Stuart@austinenergy.com> wrote in messageL news:92EFB80E551BD511B39500D0B7B0CDCC0642C40B@ohms.electric.ci.austin.tx.us. ..D > The "Special Edition of the TRU64 UNIX and OpenVMS Times" has been	 modified.9) > The OpenVMS/HP-UX migration Q&A is now:O >r( > Q: For OpenVMS customers who have made+ > a firm decision to move to UNIX, will youR" > offer a migration path to HP-UX? > 3 > A: Yes. For our OpenVMS customers who have made a 4 > decision to move to UNIX, we believe that HP-UX is6 > an excellent choice, and we will work with them on a4 > migration plan and provide tools and services that& > can help ensure a smooth transition. >tH > Looks like the folks at the new HP read those emails that were sent by > OpenVMS advocates. >h > -->Ed G > **Please apply a generous amount of all the usual disclaimers here.**- >   = 	Here is my take from a guy that is a "mostly always full VMS  	glass guy."  C 	I'm sitting trying to come up with an appropriate analogy.  I haveoB 	Jewish friends, so don't mean any disrespect but thought this may 	be similar.  : 	Suppose in a local Israeli newspaper a liberal Jew writesF 	encouraging both liberal Jews and traditional Jews to participate in F 	something that is obvioiusly offensive to traditional Jews.  Perhaps = 	something as innocuous as suggesting they move a local town cG 	celebration held the day before the Sabbath to the Sabbath day itself.   A 	Of course, he wouldn't write that because he would be in tune toLD 	traditional Jew's sensivity regarding the Sabbath.  Either that, or? 	he would receive a great outpouring that would wish he had noteD 	made such a silly suggestion in light of how his traditional Jewish* 	friends regard the Sabbath as a holy day.  @ 	It is bad enough that many of us traditional VMS folks have to H 	inter-mingle with the Unix folks and/or support it.  But to suggest we E 	move there, is mostly offensive.  Also, it appears that someone did pF 	not brief senior management about the VMS base and the sensitivities C 	of dealing with them.  That or senior management disregarded such e
 	briefing.   				Robe   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 14 May 2002 11:12:04 -0400l- From: "Peter Weaver" <peter.weaver@stelco.ca>p6 Subject: Re: Forced migration to HPHUX - Storm Warning5 Message-ID: <abr9gq$k9ss4$1@ID-141708.news.dfncis.de>e  : "Stuart, Ed" <Ed.Stuart@austinenergy.com> wrote in messageL news:92EFB80E551BD511B39500D0B7B0CDCC0642C40B@ohms.electric.ci.austin.tx.us. ..D > The "Special Edition of the TRU64 UNIX and OpenVMS Times" has been	 modified. ) > The OpenVMS/HP-UX migration Q&A is now:  > ( > Q: For OpenVMS customers who have made+ > a firm decision to move to UNIX, will yous" > offer a migration path to HP-UX? >d3 > A: Yes. For our OpenVMS customers who have made a 4 > decision to move to UNIX, we believe that HP-UX is6 > an excellent choice, and we will work with them on a4 > migration plan and provide tools and services that& > can help ensure a smooth transition. >-H > Looks like the folks at the new HP read those emails that were sent by > OpenVMS advocates.   >...  I But if they had read those emails, the new newsletter would say something  like; $  Q: For UNIX customers who have made0  a firm decision to move to a secure, stable OS,'  will you offer a migration path to VMSu  A: Yes. VMS is the future!r   Then I would be happy.   -- Peter WeaverL Opinions are my own, and do not reflect the opinions of my employer, nor theK company that it sub-contracts to, nor the company that it sub-contracts to.y > >    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 14 May 2002 15:53:57 GMTA# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>t6 Subject: Re: Forced migration to HPHUX - Storm WarningE Message-ID: <pqaE8.4357$t8_.325@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>r  L "Dissatisfied with unix? Down-time costing you too much lost business? TiredG of paying top dollar for "unix guru's" who change employers faster thannK humming birds beat their wings? Choose the operating system that "let's yout' sleep nights and stay calm" - OpenVMS."   C "Call you local HP office and insist on OpenVMS for your business."0    8 "Peter Weaver" <peter.weaver@stelco.ca> wrote in message/ news:abr9gq$k9ss4$1@ID-141708.news.dfncis.de...g< > "Stuart, Ed" <Ed.Stuart@austinenergy.com> wrote in message > L news:92EFB80E551BD511B39500D0B7B0CDCC0642C40B@ohms.electric.ci.austin.tx.us. > ..F > > The "Special Edition of the TRU64 UNIX and OpenVMS Times" has been > modified.o+ > > The OpenVMS/HP-UX migration Q&A is now:S > > * > > Q: For OpenVMS customers who have made- > > a firm decision to move to UNIX, will you $ > > offer a migration path to HP-UX? > >a5 > > A: Yes. For our OpenVMS customers who have made a 6 > > decision to move to UNIX, we believe that HP-UX is8 > > an excellent choice, and we will work with them on a6 > > migration plan and provide tools and services that( > > can help ensure a smooth transition. > >tJ > > Looks like the folks at the new HP read those emails that were sent by > > OpenVMS advocates. >c > >... >aK > But if they had read those emails, the new newsletter would say somethingt > like;h& >  Q: For UNIX customers who have made2 >  a firm decision to move to a secure, stable OS,) >  will you offer a migration path to VMS- >  A: Yes. VMS is the future!0 >3 > Then I would be happy. >r > -- > Peter WeaverJ > Opinions are my own, and do not reflect the opinions of my employer, nor the1I > company that it sub-contracts to, nor the company that it sub-contractsP to.s > > >t >e >e   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 14 May 2002 16:57:45 +0100k( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1>6 Subject: Re: Forced migration to HPHUX - Storm Warning) Message-ID: <3CE133F9.153B84DA@127.0.0.1>    John Smith wrote:  > N > "Dissatisfied with unix? Down-time costing you too much lost business? TiredI > of paying top dollar for "unix guru's" who change employers faster thanwM > humming birds beat their wings? Choose the operating system that "let's youi) > sleep nights and stay calm" - OpenVMS."a > E > "Call you local HP office and insist on OpenVMS for your business."r   I like it but too complicated.  C Black and white footage of a patient being rushed to hospital in aniE ambulance, lot of furrowed brows and concerned looks. Doctor in whiteeC coat keys a few things on a computer, then says "it's OK, we have a1! cross match and it's on its way".o   Caption. "hp OpenVMS for life".:  C A deep play on words that with enough repeats will probably get them message through. -- n( Regards, Nic Clews CSC Computer Sciences nclews at csc dot coms   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 14 May 2002 09:24:48 -0700 + From: "Barry Treahy, Jr." <Treahy@mmaz.com>i6 Subject: Re: Forced migration to HPHUX - Storm Warning' Message-ID: <3CE13A50.3030805@mmaz.com>h   John Smith wrote:i  M >"Dissatisfied with unix? Down-time costing you too much lost business? Tired H >of paying top dollar for "unix guru's" who change employers faster thanL >humming birds beat their wings? Choose the operating system that "let's you( >sleep nights and stay calm" - OpenVMS." >dD >"Call you local HP office and insist on OpenVMS for your business." >tI A lot of focus and efforts to slam Unix seems to be missing that target. -G  This isn't the 80's when Unix was clearly our competition and enemy,   I this is the new millennium and the issue at hand is Windows Servers.  To aF a much lessor extent, Unix isn't the security, virus or dependability I threat that Windows is, so if a marketing campaign is going to be kicked -I off for VMS, it should focus on the giant that has market share to steal tI from and to throw rocks at it's weaknesses which are much lengthier than n Unix...<   Just my two cents...   Barryi   -- ,  @ Barry Treahy, Jr  *  Midwest Microwave  *  Vice President & CIO   A E-mail: Treahy@mmaz.com * Phone: 480/314-1320 * FAX: 480/661-7028o   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 14 May 2002 12:52:18 GMT , From: "Mike Minor" <mminorhsd@earthlink.net>  Subject: ftp process failures...B Message-ID: <6M7E8.103$l82.13164@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net>  
 Hi all....  I We have a process that calls for FTP transfer of files. Sometimes the ftphJ process does not happen. We suspect that the cause of this problem is thatJ we are reaching the limit of the number of licenses on the system. How can; we determine that a license limit is or is not the problem?i   --	 Thanks...a  
 Mike Minor Z-Code Systems, Inc. mminorhsd@earthlink.netf Phone: 407-656-4990i      Fax: 407-656-5875   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 14 May 2002 13:32:52 GMTd2 From: Mike Rechtman <michael.rechtman@digital.com>$ Subject: Re: ftp process failures...* Message-ID: <3CE13A40.87CC6EB@digital.com>  % _If_ this is UCX or Compaq TCPIP try:i     $UCX SHOW SERVICE FTP /FULLe or     $TCPIP SHOW SERVICE FTP /FULL  * and compare the "Peak" and "Limit" fields.   Mike   Mike Minor wrote:: >  > Hi all.... > K > We have a process that calls for FTP transfer of files. Sometimes the ftp L > process does not happen. We suspect that the cause of this problem is thatL > we are reaching the limit of the number of licenses on the system. How can= > we determine that a license limit is or is not the problem?s >  > -- > Thanks...e >  > Mike Minor > Z-Code Systems, Inc. > mminorhsd@earthlink.nete > Phone: 407-656-4990' >      Fax: 407-656-5875   -- oE ---------------------------------------------------------------------gE Usual disclaimer: All opinions are mine alone, perhaps not even that.s? Mike Rechtman                            *rechtman@tzora.co.il*tF Kibbutz Tzor'a.                          Voice (home): 972-2-9908337  B   "20% of a job takes 80% of the time, the rest takes another 80%"E ---------------------------------------------------------------------w -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----k Version: 3.1: GCM/CS d(-)pu s:+>:- a++ C++ U-- L-- W++ N++ K? w--- V+++$6 PS+ PE-- t 5? X- tv-- b+ DI+ D-- G e++ h--- r+++ y+++@ ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------    ------------------------------    Date: 14 May 2002 05:10:31 -0700) From: P.Young@unsw.EDU.AU (Patrick Young)v/ Subject: Re: High Water Concurrent Users Count?p= Message-ID: <55f85d77.0205140410.2173fe6f@posting.google.com>1  X Rick Dyson <Rick-Dyson@UIowa.EDU> wrote in message news:<3CDBDF96.4EAAAA5A@UIowa.EDU>...P > Is there any counter that can be grabbed via lexical or program API that wouldQ > hold the highest number of concurrent users on an OpenVMS node or cluster sincem  9 LOGINOUT.EXE (or some such) needs looked at to update thee cell PMS$GW_INTJOBS ?    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 14 May 2002 11:47:37 -0500l& From: jlsue <jlsuexxxz@screaminet.com>/ Subject: Re: High Water Concurrent Users Count? 8 Message-ID: <fgf2eu0g0fjue7kgu10b13jivph96kbqr5@4ax.com>  @ On 13 May 02 20:28:26 +0200, p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture) wrote:     >>  O >> Any simple explanation for the wide variation of the above results?  In your S >> opinion, is the first one the most accurate measure of discrete humans accessingi >> the system? >> t >dM >I suppose the "correct" value would be the one used by LOGINOUT.EXE to checksM >that n-user license limits are enforced. Sorry, dunno which one of the aboves	 >that is.s >0  E OTOH, this doesn't always work either.... ever use a batch job or rshCA to create a decterm (create/terminal/detached/logged) to a remote F x-server?  LMF limit isn't affected by this method, unfortunately, andA yet it would be considered a "user" by most people's definitions.p  D And then there are server-based apps that have user connections (andF therefore users) - e.g., Advanced Server (Pathworks), LPD, Web Servers> (CSWS), ftp, Oracle SQL*Net, SYSMAN, DECnet COPY, task-to-task programs, etc.  E Counting users is a very complex undertaking.  The first steps shouldjB be to determine all of the avenues of entry that you have for yourE systems/applications, then come up with a plausible definition of how C you want to define a concurrent "user".  Then you need to determined? how to count users for each port of entry, and then develop theS! programs to perform those counts.c  B At that point you could determine the appropriate time period overD which to perform these counts based on resources required to do them; and balanced with the impact that causes on your production 
 applications.t  F This can be fun, but only if there's a real business benefit for it in the end.  1 Not speaking for anyone, certainly not DEC/Compaqr- (get rid of the xxxz in my address to e-mail)o   ------------------------------    Date: 14 May 2002 06:39:49 -0000= From: Doc.Cypher <Use-Author-Supplied-Address-Header@[127.1]> 4 Subject: Re: howto create self-extracting zip files?6 Message-ID: <20020514063949.15980.qmail@gacracker.org>  > On 13 May 2002, Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) wrote:B >In article <20020513162257.21763.qmail@gacracker.org>, Doc.Cypher5 ><Use-Author-Supplied-Address-Header@[127.1]> writes:o   <snip>  ! >> Larry, I'm a little curious...  >> 'N >> Since you trust media delivered (albeit indirectly) from VMS Engineering onN >> CD, would you take material that, for example, was digitally signed by HoffN >> and transferred across the internet? This would rule out the possibility of >> in-transit tampering. v >IL >Certainly digital signatures would be a solution, and I remember discussingG >that with DEC folk at DECUS 10 years ago.  Obviously it has not been a . >priority item compared to selling Windows :-)  K Selling security not a priority? Guess that goes well with selling Windows.   C >As to whether Steve Hoffman's signature would be adequate, I would-B >expect the signature would be associated with a certificate for aC >known role, backed up by a normal X.509 certificate hierarchy.  IfoF >Steve Hoffman happened to be the person signing that, it likely would4 >not have his name attached, so we would never know.  K I'd certainly like to see patches being signed, but we'd need some officialaI encryption support in VMS. X.509 would certainly do, but PGP/GPG seems toe$ be far more widespread in its usage.  K I've not investigated X.509 certificate hierarchies much, but I assume theyDH have a similar basis to a PGP web of trust. If it was a web of trust I'dH actually expect to see Hoff's signature on the key used to sign software distros.     Doc. -- n6 The bigger the humbug, the better people will like it.K ~ Phineas Taylor Barnum.                             https://vmsbox.cjb.net    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 12 May 2002 23:22:11 -0400e' From: "Wayne W. Scott" <wscott@nac.net>e4 Subject: Re: howto create self-extracting zip files?' Message-ID: <3CDF3163.998717DC@nac.net>e   Larry Kilgallen wrote:  S > In article <3CDE70E5.9AAC831D@nac.net>, "Wayne W. Scott" <wscott@nac.net> writes:e >s5 > > So I came here for guidance.  Any advice, please?a >yB > Use of self-extracting archives introduces a procedural security > vulnerability.  T I'm not worried about that because it will be used to package some text files with aT .PCSI file and placed on a secure ftp server for customers to access.  No chance for maliciousness.   Thanks,W Wayne    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 12 May 2002 23:25:06 -0400@' From: "Wayne W. Scott" <wscott@nac.net>e4 Subject: Re: howto create self-extracting zip files?' Message-ID: <3CDF3211.5F9A9DA8@nac.net>v   "David J. Dachtera" wrote:   > "Wayne W. Scott" wrote:  > >l
 > > Hi Folks:  > > K > > What is the preferred method / tool(s) for creating self-extracting zip 
 > > files?L > > I perused the freeware CDs and reviewed related discussions that go back > > H > > many years; most are a couple years old; none describe how to create > > one.5 > > So I came here for guidance.  Any advice, please?  >  > See:7 > http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/zipunzip/sld047.htmy6 > http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/zipunzip/index.htm >- > -- > David J. Dachtera  > dba DJE Systemsr > http://www.djesys.com/ >D* > Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page:! > http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/0  ( THANK YOU, David.  This looks wonderful.   Waynec   ------------------------------    Date: 14 May 2002 11:44:06 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)"4 Subject: Re: howto create self-extracting zip files?3 Message-ID: <PwzemyhzanLz@eisner.encompasserve.org>.  Q In article <3CDF3163.998717DC@nac.net>, "Wayne W. Scott" <wscott@nac.net> writes:  > Larry Kilgallen wrote: > T >> In article <3CDE70E5.9AAC831D@nac.net>, "Wayne W. Scott" <wscott@nac.net> writes: >>6 >> > So I came here for guidance.  Any advice, please? >>C >> Use of self-extracting archives introduces a procedural security  >> vulnerability.  > V > I'm not worried about that because it will be used to package some text files with aV > .PCSI file and placed on a secure ftp server for customers to access.  No chance for > maliciousness.  ' So why do you need an outer container ?t  F We have just had testimony that PCSI kits are readily usable fresh off4 an IP transfer.  Send them a file to which they can:  $ 	PRODUCT INSTALL */SOURCE=ddcu:[dir]  G and you get the ability to show messages, let them choose alternatives,p etc.   ------------------------------    Date: 14 May 2002 06:52:13 -0600B From: clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP (Simon Clubley)I Subject: Most unusual resident in a system ?, was: Re: No new Alpha salest3 Message-ID: <jECB9F4YndB0@eisner.encompasserve.org>s  o In article <9tYD8.89584$GLp1.20086@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>, "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> writes:cI > You forgot the bit about cleaning out the 'dust bunnies' from the power M > supplies, and if in Australia, the odd python that finds large server boxesn! > nice warm places to curl up in.b >    A python ? Is this verifiable ?v  G So what is the most unusual resident or object ever found in a system ?t   Simon.   -- oB Simon Clubley, clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP       + Microsoft: The Lada of the computing world.o   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 14 May 2002 12:19:52 GMTi1 From: CSABA  HARANGOZO   <csabah@zipworld.com.au>nM Subject: Re: Most unusual resident in a system ?, was: Re: No new Alpha salest7 Message-ID: <Ih7E8.1855$06.238960@nasal.pacific.net.au>.  C Simon Clubley <clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-earth.ufp> wrote: q > In article <9tYD8.89584$GLp1.20086@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>, "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> writes:cJ >> You forgot the bit about cleaning out the 'dust bunnies' from the powerN >> supplies, and if in Australia, the odd python that finds large server boxes" >> nice warm places to curl up in. >> 1  ! > A python ? Is this verifiable ?e  8 	Being in here in Oz, I think it is quite a possibility.  I > So what is the most unusual resident or object ever found in a system ?o  9 	During my operator years, I did found the odd, big hairy 8 	spiders ( huntsman, famous for that movie recently ) in7 	computer rooms, and elsewhere. They are huge and mean-t? 	looking, but not that dangerous ( as opposed to the funnel-weba 	spiders here in Sydney ). 						Cheers,   Csaba   I    ----------------------------------------------------------------------eE    * Csaba I. Harangozo     |    'To err is human', said the hedgehogPE    * csabah@zipworld.com.au |           as he dismounted a wirebrush.uI    ----------------------------------------------------------------------i;    EARTH::AUSTRALIA:[SYDNEY]HARANGOZO.CSABA;1, delete? [N]:t   ------------------------------    Date: 14 May 2002 10:21:10 -0600+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young)uM Subject: Re: Most unusual resident in a system ?, was: Re: No new Alpha salesp3 Message-ID: <lh6+leUiUWZI@eisner.encompasserve.org>o  x In article <jECB9F4YndB0@eisner.encompasserve.org>, clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP (Simon Clubley) writes:q > In article <9tYD8.89584$GLp1.20086@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>, "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> writes:DJ >> You forgot the bit about cleaning out the 'dust bunnies' from the powerN >> supplies, and if in Australia, the odd python that finds large server boxes" >> nice warm places to curl up in. >> y > ! > A python ? Is this verifiable ?e > I > So what is the most unusual resident or object ever found in a system ?a >   ? 	I once popped open a Solaris box and wasn't a bit surprised to E 	find a whole troupe of extremely tired and ragged looking squirrels m 	"a huffin' and a puffin'."D   				Robs   ------------------------------  / Date: Tue, 14 May 2002 08:30:58 +0200 (MET DST)s& From: Rudolf Wingert <win@fom.fgan.de>2 Subject: Re: Network device for wide area clusters6 Message-ID: <200205140630.IAA03528@sinet1.fom.fgan.de>   Hello,   Peter LANGSTOEGER wrotes:    >>>o@ The Cabletron SmartSwitchRouter (now called Enterasys Xpedition)D was originally designed by a small company named YAGO and was boughtG (with the company) by Cabletron some months before Cabletron bought the G Digital Network Product Group. Unlike DNPG, YAGO was very fast absorbedeK within Cabletron. YAGO did AFAIK not cooperate with DEC, neither did CTRON.o <<<d  C Sorry too. Digital/Compaq did sold the same box with an other labelkD (GigaSwitch) and a modified firmware. Also did Compaq sold CabletronE network products for a few month before they changed there mind. Thisl+ was before Cabletron splitts and sold DNPG.    Regards Rudolf Wingert   ------------------------------   Date: 14 MAY 2002 14:14:06 GMT4 From: karcher@thuria.waisman.wisc.edu (Carl Karcher)2 Subject: Re: Network device for wide area clusters6 Message-ID: <14MAY02.14140632@thuria.waisman.wisc.edu>  F In a previous article, peter@langstoeger.at (Peter LANGSTOEGER) wrote:   ->Sorry to correct you. B ->The Cabletron SmartSwitchRouter (now called Enterasys Xpedition)F ->was originally designed by a small company named YAGO and was boughtI ->(with the company) by Cabletron some months before Cabletron bought theoI ->Digital Network Product Group. Unlike DNPG, YAGO was very fast absorbed M ->within Cabletron. YAGO did AFAIK not cooperate with DEC, neither did CTRON.T  C To add a tidbit: As I remember, YAGO stood for "Yet Another GigabittA Operation". Some of their other products were incorporated in thesE Cabletron (now enterasys) product line. The ELS100 stackable switched A hubs - now called the Vertical Horizon - was one of them I think.r  - Ok, since this has no VMS content I add some:h  H I'd hesitate to use an SSR (Xpedition) as your ONLY cluster interconnectD since when it does reboot it can take up to 3 minutes. You'd need to9 crank up RECNXINTERVAL to 180 or more to avoid a CLUEXIT.    --G -- Carl Karcher, Waisman Computing Services, Waisman Center, UW-Madison  --   ------------------------------    Date: 14 May 2002 07:40:58 -0600- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)sO Subject: Re: new academic programme (was: RE: Bob Palmer and the demise of DEC)03 Message-ID: <nRhtxQ$zAPRO@eisner.encompasserve.org>@  w In article <01KHOSYDJQ3495MSV4@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>, Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> writes:w > C > Right, that's the problem.  Or does the hobbyist programme allow uG > multi-user licenses now?  (I think that at least in the beginning it e
 > didn't.) >   H    I and my kids all log on to my Alpha and my VAX with nothing on them B    but hobbyist licenses.  Systems such as Hobbes also claim to be!    running with hobyist licenses.u   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 14 May 2002 08:39:35 -0700n' From: David Mathog <mathog@caltech.edu>e8 Subject: Re: new academic programme and Hobbist licenses+ Message-ID: <3CE12FB7.8E5DE784@caltech.edu>i  8 It is perhaps worth injecting into this thread some data< on the relative prices of the academic programs of the major7 computer companies. As of whenever the prices were lastM! updated on our campus, they were:t  I   0 RedHat (they don't sell hardware but there's a lot of this installed)hE   0 CPQ sham CPQ new educational program (unusable for any real work) ;  70 Sun (for compilers, OS license free on <=8 cpu systems)s 380 SGI (first year)  63 SGI (2nd and later years)3 595 CPQ  CSLG/ESL6# 575 HP  (HP 7000 workstations only)-  C I could not find anything for IBM but think there must be some sortrC of deal as there are a few AIX systems around.  Probably not a good7- sign that the education link on the AIX page e  #   http://www-1.ibm.com/servers/aix/h  B is broken.  The SGI program is also less than it seems to be sinceA they are in incredible disarray at this point.  Sun however seemseC to have a very clear grasp of the importance of the academic market = and prices and markets their products accordingly. That said, B linux seems to be the first choice these days for many unixy tasksA and is taking over this market much as what Sun took over DEC's. -  4 Anyway, since the only HP academic program I know of2 costs as much as the CSLG/ESL and is restricted to3 just their workstations it would appear that HP wasD: at least as backwards as CPQ in this area, so there's very4 little historical reason to expect them to get their6 act together post merger.  There academic strategy has4 always been spectacularly unsuccessful, as they have7 managed to install a grand total of about 20 HP systemsF5 on campus (not sure where, I've never seen one here),s5 which is not much of a showing considering the amounti3 of computer firepower we have on this campus.  Justl4 for comparison sake, I've got 13 unix machines in my) room alone, (2 SGI, 1 Solaris, 10 linux.)    Regards,   David Mathog mathog@caltech.edu   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 14 May 2002 10:57:25 -0500F1 From: "Dave Gudewicz" <david.gudewicz@abbott.com>- Subject: Re: No new Alpha sales-1 Message-ID: <abrca2$gk3$1@fizban.pprd.abbott.com>    -- Dave...n  ) Adam and Eve had many advantages, but the - principle one was that they escaped teething.r -----Mark Twain   . "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> wrote in messageC news:9tYD8.89584$GLp1.20086@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com...-I > You forgot the bit about cleaning out the 'dust bunnies' from the powerEG > supplies, and if in Australia, the odd python that finds large server+ boxes ! > nice warm places to curl up in.+ >+L > Wouldn't catch me putting my arm under a raised floor in Australia. One ofJ > my relatives just found the skin of some sort of constrictor (least theyG > didn't think it was poisonous) in their home near Brisbane this week.e >g > Nice place to visit though.f >@ >t@ > "Bill Gunshannon" <bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu> wrote in message( > news:abp3ce$1f2e$1@info.cs.uofs.edu... > > In article> <K3UD8.83446$GLp1.15577@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>,* > >  "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> writes: > > |>G > > |> The bit about the boxes being field upgradable to Itanic is niceo > marketing,L > > |> but virtually none of the customers will do it. They'll buy new boxes > withF > > |> newer bus architecutes and interconnects before they upgrade an
 > existing > > |> 3-year old box. > > |> > >-K > > Actually, I ssupect the "upgrade" will be about the same as the upgrade0/ > > for the 3B2 family when NCR took that over.  > > Step 1.  Open case. > > Step 2.  Dump entire contents into garbage/ > > Step 3.  Put whole new computer in old casee > >  > > Upgrade complete.c > >h > >  > > bill > >t > > --G > > Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  ThreeI wolvesH > > bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. > > University of Scranton   |B > > Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h> >s >    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 14 May 2002 10:58:20 -0500r1 From: "Dave Gudewicz" <david.gudewicz@abbott.com>n Subject: Re: No new Alpha salesd1 Message-ID: <abrcbo$gk8$1@fizban.pprd.abbott.com>   @ If the beast was a python, was its nickname Monty by any chance?   -- Dave...-  ) Adam and Eve had many advantages, but theS- principle one was that they escaped teething.C -----Mark Twain-  . "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> wrote in messageC news:9tYD8.89584$GLp1.20086@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com...tI > You forgot the bit about cleaning out the 'dust bunnies' from the power G > supplies, and if in Australia, the odd python that finds large serveru boxesT! > nice warm places to curl up in.c >tL > Wouldn't catch me putting my arm under a raised floor in Australia. One ofJ > my relatives just found the skin of some sort of constrictor (least theyG > didn't think it was poisonous) in their home near Brisbane this week.m >n > Nice place to visit though.  >s >o@ > "Bill Gunshannon" <bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu> wrote in message( > news:abp3ce$1f2e$1@info.cs.uofs.edu... > > In article> <K3UD8.83446$GLp1.15577@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>,* > >  "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> writes: > > |>G > > |> The bit about the boxes being field upgradable to Itanic is nice- > marketing,L > > |> but virtually none of the customers will do it. They'll buy new boxes > withF > > |> newer bus architecutes and interconnects before they upgrade an
 > existing > > |> 3-year old box. > > |> > > K > > Actually, I ssupect the "upgrade" will be about the same as the upgradeS/ > > for the 3B2 family when NCR took that over.> > > Step 1.  Open case. > > Step 2.  Dump entire contents into garbage/ > > Step 3.  Put whole new computer in old case  > >> > > Upgrade complete.e > >t > >f > > bill > >  > > --G > > Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three  wolvesH > > bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. > > University of Scranton   |B > > Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h> >l >t   ------------------------------   Date: 14 May 2002 16:01:43 GMT1 From: "Dave Gudewicz" <david.gudewicz@abbott.com>l Subject: Re: No new Alpha saleso1 Message-ID: <abrcd7$gk9$1@fizban.pprd.abbott.com>e   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 14 May 2002 08:42:41 +0200r From: Dirk Munk <munk@home.nl>H Subject: Re: Old RAID 230 logical init very slow (63% done after 5 days)& Message-ID: <3CE0B1E1.4090605@home.nl>   Chris Sharman wrote:5 > Thanks to Chuck & everyone else for all the advice.eL > I'd actually got SRLMGR on the SWXCRMGR floppy, but not mentioned anywhere > in the documentation.d > It's V2.36 we're using.eM > I've downloaded V2.70 from the website, but I can't verify anywhere whetheriN > it's the correct firmware for my piece of hardware (which I think might be aM > kzpsc, but can't find out for certain). As it warns that the wrong firmwareyJ > will make the kit unusable, I'm rather loathe to risk breaking it, sinceM > 2.36 probably works well enough if I remember to use SRLMGR (& I've written  > it all over the manual now).J > Unless anyone knows how to confirm what's in the machine/whether it will > accept the firmware ?t > 
 > Thanks all,: > Chris Sharman  >  >  >  >   B Check what kind of card you are using. The EISA version has V2.36 7 firmware as maximum. The V2.70 is for all PCI versions.y    I The EISA card is sloooow, but your init times are a bit very slow. Check nC if the termination is ok etc. Most likely you will have a hardware a problem somewhere.   ------------------------------    Date: 14 May 2002 05:47:15 -0700) From: P.Young@unsw.EDU.AU (Patrick Young) 8 Subject: OpenVMS makes it in the "Sydney Morning Herald"= Message-ID: <55f85d77.0205140447.56bdeed0@posting.google.com>-  5 It's always nice to see positive press re: OpenVMS...5   "New HP cuts to the chase"  7 "Compaq technology wins in the merger shake-out, writesa Nathan Cochrane."e   ....  4 "Compaq's Tru64 has been dropped in favour of HP-UX,4 but Compaq's OpenVMS will live on, ported to Intel's Itanium processor."    ....   Interestingly...  : "HP bosses attempt to keep both companies' offerings alive for the foreseeable future.e  9 For instance, in the highly specialised RISC-based servert9 class, both HP's PA-RISC and Compaq's AlphaServer will ben4 kept for business and scientific technical clients."   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 14 May 2002 13:41:40 -0400   From: norm.raphael@jamesbury.comX Subject: Reads vs. Writes (was Re: What is good model for disk i/o w        /shadowing?)4 Message-ID: <C2256BB9.006021CE.00@jklh22.valmet.com>  . How does one do this on a running application?        E andrew_nospam.harrison_remove_this@sun#.com on 05/13/2002 11:09:26 AM   = Please respond to andrew_nospam.harrison_remove_this@sun#.comr   To:   Info-VAX@mvb.saic.comw cc:e: Subject:  Re: What is good model for disk i/o w/shadowing?        M ..the origional poster should be able to determine what % of reads and writess their[cq] system has...      Regardse Andrew HarrisonI   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 14 May 2002 15:28:47 GMTw. From: "David Rabahy" <David.Rabahy@compaq.com>< Subject: Re: Scott Stallard, forget your VMS to HP UX dream!9 Message-ID: <P2aE8.20$iu2.532645@cacnews.cac.cpqcorp.net>'  3 Are folks reassurable?  What exactly would it take?kE http://www.openvms.compaq.com/ is chock full of public expressions ofv commitment.e  : "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message& news:3CE02069.CBF99814@videotron.ca...L > Who is "we" ,  who gave those assurances , and how come they were not made > publicly ? >lL > The message about Compaq's expactations is that VMS customers will migrate toD > HP-UX was made publicly more than once. It will take larger public
 statements! > to reverse the initial message.6 >:& > If it isn't public, it isn't policy.   ------------------------------    Date: 14 May 2002 15:40:05 -0000= From: Doc.Cypher <Use-Author-Supplied-Address-Header@[127.1]>4< Subject: Re: Scott Stallard, forget your VMS to HP UX dream!6 Message-ID: <20020514154005.32644.qmail@gacracker.org>  D On Tue, 14 May 2002, "David Rabahy" <David.Rabahy@compaq.com> wrote:4 >Are folks reassurable?  What exactly would it take?F >http://www.openvms.compaq.com/ is chock full of public expressions of >commitment.  C Past breaking of commitments aside, I'd like to see the commitmentssJ expressed to a wider audience than just us VMS converts. It would generateJ interest in the OS if people were told HPQ were committed to it, and mightD get rid of the "VMS is dead" misconception that seems so widespread.     Doc. --  6 The bigger the humbug, the better people will like it.K ~ Phineas Taylor Barnum.                             https://vmsbox.cjb.net:   ------------------------------    Date: 14 May 2002 10:34:34 -0600+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young)e< Subject: Re: Scott Stallard, forget your VMS to HP UX dream!3 Message-ID: <ayjEKPmiS8F$@eisner.encompasserve.org>h  j In article <P2aE8.20$iu2.532645@cacnews.cac.cpqcorp.net>, "David Rabahy" <David.Rabahy@compaq.com> writes:5 > Are folks reassurable?  What exactly would it take? G > http://www.openvms.compaq.com/ is chock full of public expressions of 
 > commitment.s >    David,  ; 	It really is a matter of credibility.  Alpha was cancelled ? 	shortly after public commitments were made about its long termsC 	future.  Similar sentiments were expressed about MPE.  You are not * 	welded at the hip-bone to VMS, I am sure.  B 	What would it take?  More than a few things.  First in many mindsE 	would be part of the family.  Time and time again, whether corporatesE 	publications, financials and/or statements by senior management that-B 	are directly involved (at an upper level - not CEO level) fail to$ 	even acknowledge OpenVMS existence.  E 	Secondly, more marketing.  Spend more on it.  Sheesh, it contributesuD 	enough to your bottom line, why not attempt to promote it more?  It' 	might accidently result in more sales.A  E 	I am keeping it brief... that is enough for now.  If interested, you-> 	can contact me directly via email:  young_r@encompasserve.orgD 	I am more willing to talk freerer privately whether email or phone.   				Take care,   				Robe   ------------------------------    Date: 14 May 2002 07:12:57 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)eM Subject: Secure Software Distribution (was: howto create self-extracting zip)t3 Message-ID: <fAz64JmsGBV$@eisner.encompasserve.org>.  v In article <20020514063949.15980.qmail@gacracker.org>, Doc.Cypher <Use-Author-Supplied-Address-Header@[127.1]> writes:@ > On 13 May 2002, Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) wrote:  M >>Certainly digital signatures would be a solution, and I remember discussingvH >>that with DEC folk at DECUS 10 years ago.  Obviously it has not been a/ >>priority item compared to selling Windows :-)o > M > Selling security not a priority? Guess that goes well with selling Windows.n  C It is ironic that you could make that statement and follow it with:   M > I'd certainly like to see patches being signed, but we'd need some officialTK > encryption support in VMS. X.509 would certainly do, but PGP/GPG seems toi& > be far more widespread in its usage.  9 Compared to VMS, usage of Windows is far more widespread.E6 The parallel to security models is strikingly similar.  M > I've not investigated X.509 certificate hierarchies much, but I assume theyGJ > have a similar basis to a PGP web of trust. If it was a web of trust I'dJ > actually expect to see Hoff's signature on the key used to sign software
 > distros.  C The PGP web of trust model is suitable for guerilla implementation,CA much as 18 years ago individual managers found they could buy oneh? of those PC things within their budget without getting approvalC- from corporate IT.  You see the result today.w  B X.509 provides the capability for one corporation (or institution)B to set the limits under which it will trust data from another one,D and be assured such data is really from that institution.  The courtF system is unlikely to rule in your favor because you accepted softwareK you knew to be from Steve Hoffman and you recognized he was an HP employee.eE The court is going to be much more favorable if you accepted softwarerE officially sent by HP.  The latter is the assurance X.509 hierarchiesaA allow.  While _you_ may be interested in knowing it is from SteveYF Hoffman, large organizations are more interested in knowing it is fromG someone who has the financial means to make good on any harm it causes.O   ------------------------------    Date: 14 May 2002 13:00:35 -0000= From: Doc.Cypher <Use-Author-Supplied-Address-Header@[127.1]>eQ Subject: Re: Secure Software Distribution (was: howto create self-extracting zip)s6 Message-ID: <20020514130035.27980.qmail@gacracker.org>  > On 14 May 2002, Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) wrote:B >In article <20020514063949.15980.qmail@gacracker.org>, Doc.Cypher5 ><Use-Author-Supplied-Address-Header@[127.1]> writes:RA >> On 13 May 2002, Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) wrote:r >oN >>>Certainly digital signatures would be a solution, and I remember discussingI >>>that with DEC folk at DECUS 10 years ago.  Obviously it has not been a,1 >>>priority item compared to selling Windows :-) - >> -N >> Selling security not a priority? Guess that goes well with selling Windows. >KD >It is ironic that you could make that statement and follow it with: >eN >> I'd certainly like to see patches being signed, but we'd need some officialL >> encryption support in VMS. X.509 would certainly do, but PGP/GPG seems to( >> be far more widespread in its usage.    OK, I see your point.e  : >Compared to VMS, usage of Windows is far more widespread.7 >The parallel to security models is strikingly similar.  >nN >> I've not investigated X.509 certificate hierarchies much, but I assume theyK >> have a similar basis to a PGP web of trust. If it was a web of trust I'drK >> actually expect to see Hoff's signature on the key used to sign software, >> distros.  >9D >The PGP web of trust model is suitable for guerilla implementation,B >much as 18 years ago individual managers found they could buy one@ >of those PC things within their budget without getting approval. >from corporate IT.  You see the result today. >cC >X.509 provides the capability for one corporation (or institution) C >to set the limits under which it will trust data from another one,nE >and be assured such data is really from that institution.  The courtQG >system is unlikely to rule in your favor because you accepted softwareiL >you knew to be from Steve Hoffman and you recognized he was an HP employee.  H As usual, I hadn't been clear. I meant a corporate signing key that HoffH and others signed to attest that it was owned by HP, or VMS Engineering.D From a business perspective the "others" are more important, such as members of the board.   F >The court is going to be much more favorable if you accepted softwareF >officially sent by HP.  The latter is the assurance X.509 hierarchiesB >allow.  While _you_ may be interested in knowing it is from SteveG >Hoffman, large organizations are more interested in knowing it is frommH >someone who has the financial means to make good on any harm it causes.  J I wasn't taking such into consideration. From some limited reading the PKIH of X.509 is more limited than that of Open PGP. I'll take your word thatJ the X.509 model is better suited for business purposes, but the same trust! model can be built with Open PGP.H     Doc. -- t6 The bigger the humbug, the better people will like it.K ~ Phineas Taylor Barnum.                             https://vmsbox.cjb.netT   ------------------------------    Date: 14 May 2002 08:33:08 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) Q Subject: Re: Secure Software Distribution (was: howto create self-extracting zip) 3 Message-ID: <fq2XGRqWJaYt@eisner.encompasserve.org>c  v In article <20020514130035.27980.qmail@gacracker.org>, Doc.Cypher <Use-Author-Supplied-Address-Header@[127.1]> writes:@ > On 14 May 2002, Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) wrote:  E >>The PGP web of trust model is suitable for guerilla implementation,2C >>much as 18 years ago individual managers found they could buy one:A >>of those PC things within their budget without getting approvalo/ >>from corporate IT.  You see the result today.  >>D >>X.509 provides the capability for one corporation (or institution)D >>to set the limits under which it will trust data from another one,F >>and be assured such data is really from that institution.  The courtH >>system is unlikely to rule in your favor because you accepted softwareM >>you knew to be from Steve Hoffman and you recognized he was an HP employee.i > J > As usual, I hadn't been clear. I meant a corporate signing key that HoffJ > and others signed to attest that it was owned by HP, or VMS Engineering.F > From a business perspective the "others" are more important, such as > members of the board.i  F That "others" is built in to the key hierarchy and cross-certificationD agreements.  I would not trust the average board member to safeguardC their PGP key adequately.  I _would_ trust the average board memberrG to be careful regarding what they sign in front of a notary.  I _would_ F trust somebody who has built a super-secure Certificate Authority roomH for the corporation to have taken steps to guard against someone leaving the door propped open.  G >>The court is going to be much more favorable if you accepted softwaredG >>officially sent by HP.  The latter is the assurance X.509 hierarchiessC >>allow.  While _you_ may be interested in knowing it is from StevehH >>Hoffman, large organizations are more interested in knowing it is fromI >>someone who has the financial means to make good on any harm it causes.n > L > I wasn't taking such into consideration. From some limited reading the PKIJ > of X.509 is more limited than that of Open PGP. I'll take your word thatL > the X.509 model is better suited for business purposes, but the same trust# > model can be built with Open PGP.a  ? And I can check array boundaries by adding code to a C program. @ For that matter, I can do so from a Macro program.  As I see it,@ one is better off to use something purpose-built for the task at: hand, rather than getting into the business of simulation.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 14 May 2002 09:34:49 -0400y# From: "Dan Allen" <dallen@nist.gov>aQ Subject: RE: Secure Software Distribution (was: howto create self-extracting zip)C: Message-ID: <NEBBIALHDHJMJINPGMOAOEBBEKAA.dallen@nist.gov>  
 	Hi Larry,  L 	I'm intriqued by your reference to X.509 hierarchies.  It's not clear to meN 	that the industry has adopted a hierachical trust model for X.509 signatures.H 	My last discussion with our in-house X.509 mavens on this issue made itL 	clear they didn't think this was the way things were moving and in fact theN 	offerings from Entrust, perhaps the foremost X.509 vendor out there, are mostS       definitely not hierarchical.  On the other hand the Microsoft CAPI is clearlyeM 	hierarchical.  My impression is your work is security related and I would beb0 	interested in getting your views on this issue.  L 	In regard to digitally signed content and the court system - well, how many 	precedents can you cite?s   	Dan     > -----Original Message-----6 > From: Larry Kilgallen [mailto:Kilgallen@SpamCop.net]% > Sent: Tuesday, May 14, 2002 9:13 AMa > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.ComyJ > Subject: Secure Software Distribution (was: howto create self-extracting > zip) >  > x > In article <20020514063949.15980.qmail@gacracker.org>, Doc.Cypher <Use-Author-Supplied-Address-Header@[127.1]> writes:B > > On 13 May 2002, Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) wrote: > O > >>Certainly digital signatures would be a solution, and I remember discussingnJ > >>that with DEC folk at DECUS 10 years ago.  Obviously it has not been a1 > >>priority item compared to selling Windows :-)  > > O > > Selling security not a priority? Guess that goes well with selling Windows.s > E > It is ironic that you could make that statement and follow it with:  > O > > I'd certainly like to see patches being signed, but we'd need some officialdM > > encryption support in VMS. X.509 would certainly do, but PGP/GPG seems to0( > > be far more widespread in its usage. > ; > Compared to VMS, usage of Windows is far more widespread. 8 > The parallel to security models is strikingly similar. > O > > I've not investigated X.509 certificate hierarchies much, but I assume theynL > > have a similar basis to a PGP web of trust. If it was a web of trust I'dL > > actually expect to see Hoff's signature on the key used to sign software > > distros. > E > The PGP web of trust model is suitable for guerilla implementation,yC > much as 18 years ago individual managers found they could buy onewA > of those PC things within their budget without getting approval / > from corporate IT.  You see the result today.w > D > X.509 provides the capability for one corporation (or institution)D > to set the limits under which it will trust data from another one,F > and be assured such data is really from that institution.  The courtH > system is unlikely to rule in your favor because you accepted softwareM > you knew to be from Steve Hoffman and you recognized he was an HP employee.nG > The court is going to be much more favorable if you accepted software:G > officially sent by HP.  The latter is the assurance X.509 hierarchiesnC > allow.  While _you_ may be interested in knowing it is from Steve H > Hoffman, large organizations are more interested in knowing it is fromI > someone who has the financial means to make good on any harm it causes.l >    ------------------------------    Date: 14 May 2002 09:06:14 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)nQ Subject: RE: Secure Software Distribution (was: howto create self-extracting zip)r3 Message-ID: <TTL0AUVv4ZVO@eisner.encompasserve.org>n  : PLEASE DO NOT SEND ME EMAIL COPIES OF NEWSGROUP RESPONSES.  N > 	I'm intriqued by your reference to X.509 hierarchies.  It's not clear to meP > 	that the industry has adopted a hierachical trust model for X.509 signatures.J > 	My last discussion with our in-house X.509 mavens on this issue made itN > 	clear they didn't think this was the way things were moving and in fact theP > 	offerings from Entrust, perhaps the foremost X.509 vendor out there, are mostU >       definitely not hierarchical.  On the other hand the Microsoft CAPI is clearlyrO > 	hierarchical.  My impression is your work is security related and I would be-2 > 	interested in getting your views on this issue.  B X.509 V3 brought stronger cross-certification capability, which inD a sense is similar to a web of trust.  But those trust relationshipsC are between large organizations rather than between individuals whos% happen to work for the organizations.r  B Within each organization, however, the basic organization is still@ hierarchical in nature.  This is talking about authentication ofD course -- authorization is a completely different fabric laid on top! of the authentication foundation..  N > 	In regard to digitally signed content and the court system - well, how many > 	precedents can you cite?a  @ I don't follow the courts, but the notion that the PGP key of an? individual who happens to work for the company would be trustedcA as representing the view of the company is absurd, in the contextrB of Steve Hoffman.  Everybody in comp.os.vms thinks Steve does good? things on behalf of VMS, but he is _extremely_ far from being ao@ corporate officer, which is the general legal standard for being1 able to make committments on behalf of a company.    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 14 May 2002 10:41:13 GMT 1 From: "Kari Keronen" <kari.keronen@radiolinja.fi>  Subject: Re: Show Comm/ Message-ID: <dR5E8.92$EL6.865@news.kpnqwest.fi>t  D Looks like you have UCX 3.x or UCX 4.x (TCPIP 5.x is different). For information about IRP look   UCX> HELP SET COMM/IRP   -Kari-  7 "Mike Minor" <mminorhsd@earthlink.net> wrote in message.> news:o1VD8.8017$Nt3.680718@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net... > Hi all...  >.K > We've been having problems with FTPing files. I think it may be a licensel$ > issue. However, I ran the command: >s > SHOW COMM0 >1- > One of the parameters returned was IRP = 10M >2" > What is IRP and what does it do? >q > -- > Thanks...f >s > Mike Minor > Z-Code Systems, Inc. > mminorhsd@earthlink.neto > Phone: 407-656-4990  >      Fax: 407-656-5875 >m >m   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 14 May 2002 12:26:02 GMTt, From: "Mike Minor" <mminorhsd@earthlink.net> Subject: Re: Show CommA Message-ID: <un7E8.78$l82.16397@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net>    Kari...Thank you    
 Mike Minor Z-Code Systems, Inc. mminorhsd@earthlink.neta Phone: 407-656-4990h      Fax: 407-656-5875< "Kari Keronen" <kari.keronen@radiolinja.fi> wrote in message) news:dR5E8.92$EL6.865@news.kpnqwest.fi...:F > Looks like you have UCX 3.x or UCX 4.x (TCPIP 5.x is different). For > information about IRP look >R > UCX> HELP SET COMM/IRP >t > -Kari- >r9 > "Mike Minor" <mminorhsd@earthlink.net> wrote in messagen@ > news:o1VD8.8017$Nt3.680718@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
 > > Hi all...> > >vE > > We've been having problems with FTPing files. I think it may be a  licenset& > > issue. However, I ran the command: > >a
 > > SHOW COMM  > >o/ > > One of the parameters returned was IRP = 10a > > $ > > What is IRP and what does it do? > >l > > --
 > > Thanks...o > >a > > Mike Minor > > Z-Code Systems, Inc. > > mminorhsd@earthlink.neta > > Phone: 407-656-4990e > >      Fax: 407-656-5875 > >e > >t >h >b >    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 14 May 2002 08:23:57 +0200i9 From: Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com>a+ Subject: Re: simple disk-shadowing questionn' Message-ID: <3CE0AD7D.6AEF7866@aaa.com>e  8 But you don't *need* to enable cluster to use shadowing, just set an allocation class.e Or maybe I missundersstod you ?l   Jan-Erik Sderholm.n   Ed Wilts wrote:s >  > M > Even if you have only a single node in your cluster, you must still have ant > allocation class defined.  >e   ------------------------------  + Date: Tue, 14 May 2002 12:44:42 +0100 (MET)-9 From: Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>e+ Subject: Re: simple disk-shadowing questiona; Message-ID: <01KHPV96ELXU99DNNX@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>   O > > Even if you have only a single node in your cluster, you must still have an@ > > allocation class defined.  > : > But you don't *need* to enable cluster to use shadowing, > just set an allocation class.4! > Or maybe I missundersstod you ?   H Right.  I think he meant that, since originally allocation classes were I needed for dual-ported disks, it is not obvious that one needs them on a pF standalone machine (are non-zero allocation classes possible here) or C single-node cluster, thus "you must still have an allocation class  	 defined".a  G Right, shadowing can be done without a cluster, but of course there is iG more reliability if the shadow-set members are on different nodes.  As iH pointed out elsewhere here, shadowing also requires non-zero allocation G classes, but this is only so that the disk name is short enough to fit uG in the SCB.  (And this is a bit confusing since many folks would think aC "if I have the shadow set distributed across more than one node, I .I don't need dual-ported disks to ensure availability" (though there might lH be other reasons for this, such as performance or booting more than one # machine from the same shadow set)).    ------------------------------    Date: 14 May 2002 07:35:21 -0600- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)f4 Subject: Re: Some more words of wisdom from Capellas3 Message-ID: <vBQSewa9MQXH@eisner.encompasserve.org>e   In article <abojsl$5eq$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <andrew_nospam.harrison_remove_this@sun#.com> writes: > % > The Solaris kernel is called SunOS.e  (    Except when it was all sold as SunOS.  # > Don't shoot me it wasn't my idea.t      And UCX wasn't ours.n   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 14 May 2002 18:04:49 +0100 U From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <andrew_nospam.harrison_remove_this@sun#.com>u4 Subject: Re: Some more words of wisdom from Capellas0 Message-ID: <abrg3h$1df$2@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   Bob Koehler wrote:   > In article <abojsl$5eq$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <andrew_nospam.harrison_remove_this@sun#.com> writes: > % >>The Solaris kernel is called SunOS.v >> > * >    Except when it was all sold as SunOS.    . Ahh well that was after the event. SunOS 4.x.x was re-branded as Solaris 1.   Regardss Andrew Harrison-     >  > # >>Don't shoot me it wasn't my idea.- >> >  >    And UCX wasn't ours.S >    How about XFC ?[   Regardsu Andrew Harrison    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 14 May 2002 08:33:43 +0200  From: Dirk Munk <munk@home.nl>: Subject: Re: SOT: Yo Andrew, you guys on a roll this week?& Message-ID: <3CE0AFC7.4010607@home.nl>   Martin Vorlaender wrote: > Bob Ceculski wrote:- >  >>Andrew Harrison wrote... >> >>>Bob Ceculski wrote: >>>0F >>>>So tell us Andrew, do you actually do anything for Sun, or are you/ >>>>their internet rendition of James Carville?e >>>c3 >>>I post articles to this newsgroup from a desktop / >>>system running the OS I advocate people use.m >>>  >>>:):):):)n >> >>so you run OpenVMS?g >  > K > Bob, you really should get yourself a decent newsreader. Andrew's headersi# > clearly state that he posts usinga > B > User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; SunOS sun4u; en-US; rv:0.9.4.1)! >  Gecko/20020406 Netscape6/6.2.2e >  > cu,u
 >   Martin > 2 > P.S.: I know that header can easily be faked ;-)  G No, I'm sure Andrew is using a Sun workstation. Why else is he running o/ such an outdated version of Mozilla (0.9.4.1) ?T   ------------------------------    Date: 14 May 2002 07:31:52 -00004 From: Doc.Cypher <Use-Author-Address-Header@[127.1]>: Subject: Re: SOT: Yo Andrew, you guys on a roll this week?2 Message-ID: <SillyHeaders.InCompOsVMS@nowhere.nil>  H On Tue, 14 May 2002, martin@radiogaga.harz.de (Martin Vorlaender) wrote: >Bob Ceculski wrote: >> Andrew Harrison wrote...l >> > Bob Ceculski wrote:I >> > > So tell us Andrew, do you actually do anything for Sun, or are yout3 >> > > their internet rendition of James Carville? f >> > p5 >> > I post articles to this newsgroup from a desktope1 >> > system running the OS I advocate people use.n >> >  
 >> > :):):):)u >> >> so you run OpenVMS? >rJ >Bob, you really should get yourself a decent newsreader. Andrew's headers" >clearly state that he posts using >lA >User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; SunOS sun4u; en-US; rv:0.9.4.1)m  > Gecko/20020406 Netscape6/6.2.2  H You can see it with Google if you click on the "Original Format" link...  [ http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=abo8ap%2419b%241%40new-usenet.uk.sun.com&output=gplain.  1 >P.S.: I know that header can easily be faked ;-)m  % Yup, as can most mail/news headers...      Doc. --  6 The bigger the humbug, the better people will like it.K ~ Phineas Taylor Barnum.                             https://vmsbox.cjb.netl   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 14 May 2002 16:54:59 +0100aU From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <andrew_nospam.harrison_remove_this@sun#.com>n: Subject: Re: SOT: Yo Andrew, you guys on a roll this week?/ Message-ID: <abrc0k$7c$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>r   Dirk Munk wrote:   > Martin Vorlaender wrote: >  >> Bob Ceculski wrote: >> >>> Andrew Harrison wrote... >>>u >>>> Bob Ceculski wrote: >>>>H >>>>> So tell us Andrew, do you actually do anything for Sun, or are you1 >>>>> their internet rendition of James Carville?  >>>> >>>>5 >>>> I post articles to this newsgroup from a desktopj1 >>>> system running the OS I advocate people use.4 >>>>
 >>>> :):):):)6 >>>r >>>i >>> so you run OpenVMS?y >> >> >>L >> Bob, you really should get yourself a decent newsreader. Andrew's headers$ >> clearly state that he posts using >>C >> User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; SunOS sun4u; en-US; rv:0.9.4.1)r" >>  Gecko/20020406 Netscape6/6.2.2 >> >> cu, >>   Martin> >>3 >> P.S.: I know that header can easily be faked ;-)K >  > I > No, I'm sure Andrew is using a Sun workstation. Why else is he running a1 > such an outdated version of Mozilla (0.9.4.1) ?f >     = I could be running mozilla 1, I have it running on my desktopoB as well but our internal software distribution system is currentlyA serving up Netscape 6.2.2 for Solaris which I can log calls on ift I have issues.  ? If you check www.mozilla.org you will find a Solaris release ofn
 Mozilla 1.  ? I am waiting to get Opera 6 for Solaris which has a mail client  to see what that is like.v   Regardsy Andrew Harrisona   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 14 May 2002 17:21:59 +0100lU From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <andrew_nospam.harrison_remove_this@sun#.com> # Subject: Re: Stallards smoking gun! / Message-ID: <abrdj7$nv$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>s   Bob Ceculski wrote:o  c > JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message news:<3CDC9976.DA0D77D1@videotron.ca>...e >  >>"Terry C. Shannon" wrote:g >>O >>>Some might argue that the only replacement product (in the HPQ portfolio) isq >>>NSK. Just a thought...e >>>aN >>I brought that up a long time ago. A certain percentage of VMS sites will beO >>forced to go to NSK because Unix won't have the reliability needed, while them >>rest will go Unix. >>H >>VMS didn't fill a gap between two product lines, it sat on their laps. >>P >>From the "accountant" point of view, eliminating VMS makes sense. But from theP >>visionary point of view, eliminating a product with great profit potential andC >>great market differentiator and great quality doesn't make sense.o >> > E > they are not going to eliminate vms!  the commitment has been made!iB > this was all about waking up Scott Stallard so he understands usH > vms customers, and that we will not be porting to unix.  The statementB > could have been made because a few holdover morons want to port,D > but I believe he has gotton the message from the others ... he didI > from me!  The merger is iver, the letter was true, the support and porta2 > will continue.  Get a grip man and face reality! >     9 But people already are porting to UNIX. Didier in anotherf8 thread reported on a number of OpenVMS customers who are8 already in the process of moving with others planning to move.-  8 You may not have any intentions of doing so, but you are" not the OpenVMS market as a whole.  ; The holdover morons you refered to seemed from his posts toe$ be in the majority not the minority.  : You don't seem to understand how dangerous the complacency% you appear to advocate is to OpenVMS.0  : Doing the port of OpenVMS to IA64 is the easy bit you just4 stick some engineers in a cage with workstations and" throw them red meat and Jolt Cola.  = The harder bit is getting access to the resources to convice,t7 cajole and bully your ISV's to port to IA64 at the samer6 time. HP need to educate their existing sales force on# OpenVMS and their partner channels.t  6 Remember the whole rational behind the deal is to take5 2 2and-3rd=4th tier companies in each market, combinee5 them lose ~5% revenues and save more in efficiencies.y  7 The efficiencies will be HQ, R&D, Manufacturing, Sales,c< Channels etc So you will end up with people who were pushing> HP's products nowpushing OpenVMS as well. These people need to be trained.   = The theory at the end of the day is that the combination of a3= 2nd-3rd place company or 3rd-4th place company in each marketD9 will result in a corporation that has moved up the market : share ladder in each market that it plays in. Histories of; technolgy company mergers should make anyone expecting thise% very nervous but thats another story.o  7 Bottom line is that if HP just do the port and then sayi8 all done on the OpenVMS front then OpenVMS is dead, they: actually have to boost spending on OpenVMS in order to pay< for all of the issues surrounding the Alpha->IA64 transition not just to OS port.   Regardsn Andrew Harrisone   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 14 May 2002 18:09:25 +0100 U From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <andrew_nospam.harrison_remove_this@sun#.com>n# Subject: Re: Stallards smoking gun!d0 Message-ID: <abrgc5$1eo$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>  3 Urban myth along with the hairy handed hitch hiker.e   Regardss Andrew Harrisonr   Main, Kerry wrote:  @ >>>>>Neither have I. Only started using VMS 20 years ago. ;-}<<< >>>>>n > F > Well, having spent time in a prior lifetime doing CS support, I haveD > seen lots of crash dumps, but the point is that there are numerous5 > examples of extra ordinary uptimes for VMS systems.s > I > Case in point - the Irish National Railway application ran CONTINUOUSLYGA > (no scheduled or unscheduled system downtime which impacted theuG > application availability) for 17 years before being retired some timeo > last year. > 	 > Regardsg >  > Kerry Main > Senior Consultantr > HP Global Services > HP Canada Ltd. > Voice: 613-592-4660e > Fax  :  819-772-7036 > Email: Kerry.Main@hp.com >  >  > -----Original Message-----9 > From: Terry C. Shannon [mailto:terryshannon@attbi.com]   > Sent: May 10, 2002 8:09 AM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Come% > Subject: Re: Stallards smoking gun!c >  >  > . > "Roy Omond" <Roy@Omond.net> wrote in message% > news:3CDB8BE8.FE82DBDF@Omond.net...h >  >>Carl Karcher wrote:  >> >>C >>>In a previous article, bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski) wrote:r >>>hG >>>->I could care less about anyone else ... as long as I have vms and n >>>->I >>>s > have > D >>>->support, let everyone else get shut down ... I will be up, the  >>>->company >>>  > Ih > G >>>->work for will be up 99.9999, and I will be just fine ... for those- >>>- >  >>>->who >>>4 > fail >  >>>->... >>>rF >>>Come on Bob, while I have a similar mantra, that's six nines or 31 D >>>seconds of downtime a year if I did the math correctly. Even VMS , >>>would be hard pressed to accomplish that. >>>DA >>Come on Carl, you haven't been reading Good Old Bob Ceculski's uC >>postings. He's never seen a VMS crash in the last 32,767 *years*.t >> > : > Neither have I. Only started using VMS 20 years ago. ;-} >  >  >  >    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 14 May 2002 12:46:11 -0400e+ From: John Johnstone <jj_usenet2@yahoo.com>w' Subject: Re: Switching the console modef) Message-ID: <3CE10713.5C76308C@yahoo.com>d   Carl Perkins wrote:  >    > Another possiblilty: > L > On a DS10 there is also a remote management processor on one of the serialK > ports. If it hasn't been completely disabled, you may be able to convincetH > the remote management processor to talk to you over the correct serialG > port. I think you can then have it change console parameters and do aoL > restart. IIRC the default setup is for it to snoop the serial line lookingH > for a specific code sequence that indicates you want to talk to it, at$ > which time it takes over the port. > ? > You'd have to look up how the remote management thingy works.c > 
 > --- Carl  C If the RMC is enabled on the serial port, once you've given the RMCaF command to connect to the RMC processor, the only commands you can useG are RMC commands.  You can't give any SRM commands at that point.  OnceoG you've exited from the RMC mode, your input will then be passed throughw> to either the OS or the SRM console depending what's currentlyH executing.  If you've connected to the RMC processor, the only thing you> could do that would affect the system operation is a power-on, power-off, or a system reset.l   ------------------------------  + Date: Tue, 14 May 2002 07:06:44 +0000 (UTC)b5 From: "Bill Sticker" <NOSPAMPLEASE@SPAMSTOPPER.CO.UK> ! Subject: System manager available / Message-ID: <abqd23$rir$1@helle.btinternet.com>r  ? Anyone need a good VMS system manager with 20 years experience?e Nationality British. info@johnoxley.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 14 May 2002 06:55:55 -0400r' From: Howard S Shubs <howard@shubs.net> % Subject: Re: System manager available<< Message-ID: <howard-0C489C.06555514052002@enews.newsguy.com>  / In article <abqd23$rir$1@helle.btinternet.com>,a7  "Bill Sticker" <NOSPAMPLEASE@SPAMSTOPPER.CO.UK> wrote:s  A > Anyone need a good VMS system manager with 20 years experience?   4 You ready to switch to UNIX yet?  'S what I'm doing.   -- =# "Run in circles, scream and shout!"  I hope you have good backups! ) Are there any more networked SJFs around?    ------------------------------  + Date: Tue, 14 May 2002 04:59:17 -0700 (PDT)m. From: Fabio Cardoso <fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br>% Subject: Re: System manager available @ Message-ID: <20020514115917.79327.qmail@web20210.mail.yahoo.com>   ME TOO !!!!8    . I will return to the Solaris world ! may be in0 July/Aug. Probably I will work with HP-UX too...  / I would like a System Engineer CErtification in / OpenVMS to get a job in Europe, but despite ther, lack of courses in Brazil, I must survive...     REgardsk   FC ., --- Howard S Shubs <howard@shubs.net> wrote:1 > In article <abqd23$rir$1@helle.btinternet.com>,u2 >  "Bill Sticker" <NOSPAMPLEASE@SPAMSTOPPER.CO.UK> > wrote: > 1 > > Anyone need a good VMS system manager with 20n > years experience?t > 6 > You ready to switch to UNIX yet?  'S what I'm doing. >  > --  % > "Run in circles, scream and shout!"f > I hope you have good backups!s+ > Are there any more networked SJFs around?      =====W ========================== Fbio dos Santos Cardoso OpenVMS System Manager Rio de Janeiro - Brazild fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br ==========================  2 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!?% LAUNCH - Your Yahoo! Music Experience5 http://launch.yahoo.com    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 14 May 2002 12:59:23 GMTi( From: "Mark E. Levy" <mlevy70@attbi.com>% Subject: Re: System manager available - Message-ID: <LS7E8.49062$WR1.51047@sccrnsc01>.  H Not me. I'm going for Cisco certification. After working with VMS for 23J years, I'm afraid that I just can't tolerate the lobotomy that I'd need to work with any other O/S.  	 Mark Levy  SMA   4 "Howard S Shubs" <howard@shubs.net> wrote in message6 news:howard-0C489C.06555514052002@enews.newsguy.com...1 > In article <abqd23$rir$1@helle.btinternet.com>, 9 >  "Bill Sticker" <NOSPAMPLEASE@SPAMSTOPPER.CO.UK> wrote:H >yC > > Anyone need a good VMS system manager with 20 years experience?o > 6 > You ready to switch to UNIX yet?  'S what I'm doing. >  > --% > "Run in circles, scream and shout!"n > I hope you have good backups!e+ > Are there any more networked SJFs around?u   ------------------------------  + Date: Tue, 14 May 2002 15:02:47 +0000 (UTC)c5 From: "Bill Sticker" <NOSPAMPLEASE@SPAMSTOPPER.CO.UK> % Subject: Re: System manager availablel/ Message-ID: <abr8un$djf$1@paris.btinternet.com>s  - I'd switch to anything if I could find a job.   4 "Howard S Shubs" <howard@shubs.net> wrote in message6 news:howard-0C489C.06555514052002@enews.newsguy.com...1 > In article <abqd23$rir$1@helle.btinternet.com>,s9 >  "Bill Sticker" <NOSPAMPLEASE@SPAMSTOPPER.CO.UK> wrote:  >iC > > Anyone need a good VMS system manager with 20 years experience?  >i6 > You ready to switch to UNIX yet?  'S what I'm doing. >e > --% > "Run in circles, scream and shout!"t > I hope you have good backups! + > Are there any more networked SJFs around?f   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 14 May 2002 08:01:38 -0500 4 From: "Lucas, Edward A (SAIC)" <Edward.Lucas@bp.com> Subject: RE: Tivoli ABC for VMSh? Message-ID: <EF1DC894691AD5118AF000508BB85FDE034CC610@AMCLVX11>e  I I am now in evaluating replacing our current backup system (Tapesys) with- ABC.   ABC is sold by R&D Solutions.0  H According to the folks who designed the product, they do not use the VMS backup utility.s       -----Original Message-----B From: young_r@encompasserve.org [mailto:young_r@encompasserve.org]# Sent: Tuesday, May 14, 2002 1:08 AMa To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comn Subject: Re: Tivoli ABC for VMSs    < In article <3367ac9.0205131056.4fad3649@posting.google.com>,& johnparamonte@hotmail.com (jp) writes:F > Can anyone here give any feedback, positive or negative, on Tivoli's7 > ABC with OpenVMS? Does it use the VMS Backup utility?:  = 	I've found it to be a very good product.  We are now gettingp< 	about 10-11 MByte/sec throughput via 100 Mbit network card.  > 	You may wish to contact the owners http://www.storsol.com/ to 	learn about technical details.    				Robc   ------------------------------   Date: 14 May 2002 12:03:31 CDT= From: wayne@tachysoft.xxx.564897.killspam.00c7 (Wayne Sewell)  Subject: RE: Tivoli ABC for VMSS. Message-ID: <HCHeyXRpjRio@tachxxsoftxxconsult>  v In article <EF1DC894691AD5118AF000508BB85FDE034CC610@AMCLVX11>, "Lucas, Edward A (SAIC)" <Edward.Lucas@bp.com> writes:K > I am now in evaluating replacing our current backup system (Tapesys) with' > ABC. >     @ Any particular reason?  In what way do you consider it superior?    J > According to the folks who designed the product, they do not use the VMS > backup utility.R  I Is use of VMS Backup an issue?  One advantage of wrapping tape management0M around VMS backup is that customers can restore disks/files directly from DCLrO if they have to.  The tapesys databases just keep track of what disks and filesc are backed up where.    J Can this ABC thing do image backups than are *readable* by vms backup in aF standalone restore situation, i.e. after you trashed your system disk?       --  O ===============================================================================rM Wayne Sewell, Tachyon Software Consulting  (281)812-0738  wayne@tachysoft.xxxt: http://www.tachysoft.xxx/www/tachyon.html and wayne.html  K change .xxx to .com in addresses above, assuming you are not a spambot  :-) O ==============================================================================='= Society Lady:  Are you familiar with the Great Wall of China?g5        Curly:  No, but I know a big fence in Chicago!    ------------------------------    Date: 14 May 2002 10:13:41 -0700 From: zuo@hsq.com (Daxin Zuo)e( Subject: Two questions with fetch_http.c= Message-ID: <249968ad.0205140913.7bde913a@posting.google.com>.   Please help.F I removed the UNIX lib and added some Win32 code into fetch_http.c. It> works well for some URLs. But for some URLs, it does not work.  C When I ran the program on VMS and windows 2000 at office with URL: oD http://cdec.water.ca.gov/cgi-progs/queryF?SJP. The gethostbyname gotA exception with the code WSANO_RECOVERY. I changed the function to 2 gethostbyaddr, it got error code WSANO_DATA. I canC access this page by Internet Browser besides a little delay. So theBE page is good but can not be read via socket. Why? How to overcome it?sB when I ping the host by the host string, I got one answer only and timeout for two other answers.? At home I did the same on window 2000, the program ran perfect.    Second question * At home, on Windows 2000,  I used the URL:N http://cdec.water.ca.gov/cgi-progs/queryF?SJP&d=13-May-2002+21:07&span=12hours  ' However, the program ran as the URL is:y- http://cdec.water.ca.gov/cgi-progs/queryF?SJPa and gave error as following:B 'd' is not recognized as an internal or external command, operableA program or batch file. 'span' is not recognized as an internal or-1 external command,operable program or batch file. 2: It is a real URL,we can open this page with a browser. ???   please give me your instructionu  
 Thank you.  	 Daxin Zuo    ------------------------------  / Date: Tue, 14 May 2002 08:14:20 +0200 (MET DST)c& From: Rudolf Wingert <win@fom.fgan.de>9 Subject: Re: What is good model for disk i/o w/shadowing?H6 Message-ID: <200205140614.IAA03505@sinet1.fom.fgan.de>   Hello,  @ the first time I did messure this I did use different tools. One@ tool was a program which does use multibuffer I/O and transferedA 100MB to the disk drive. After the first test I tried it with thenE BACKUP and COPY utility (100MB contigoues file) with the same result. D To enable the onboard write cache I used a freeware tool. My mentionD is: The diskdriver have to read the sector address before it is ableA to write. With write cache enabled, the driver can write the dataSB asynchron to disk without spin delay. Also the write cache buffers@ QIO delay of 20ms. That the read without cache is as slow as the> write without cache makes sense. Also the the read slows down,: because enableling the write cache shrinks the read cache.   Regards Rudolf Wingert   ------------------------------    Date: 14 May 2002 06:46:29 -0000= From: Doc.Cypher <Use-Author-Supplied-Address-Header@[127.1]>n' Subject: Re: Who cares about marketing!a6 Message-ID: <20020514064629.16256.qmail@gacracker.org>  ? On 13 May 2002, spamsink2001@yahoo.com (Alan E. Feldman) wrote:wI >Doc.Cypher <Use-Author-Supplied-Address-Header@[127.1]> wrote in messaget3 >news:<20020511132404.27903.qmail@gacracker.org>...-< >> On 11 May 2002, bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski) wrote: >> m	 >> <snip>r >>  ! >> Re: Who cares about marketing?r >o >[snip]t >@K >> Anyway, didn't you notice that the lack of marketing is one of the areaswA >> where the majority of people in the newsgroup actually agree? . >m >@B >So what's your point? The majority of people once agreed that all* >heavenly bodies revolve around the earth.  J My point is that perhaps Bob should ask himself why people have arrived atI that conclusion, perhaps also look at the effects marketing could have onA the long-term viability of VMS.w  E >Of course I agree with the majority in this case, but why should hisd8 >disagreement with the majority be a reason not to post?  H I didn't say he shouldn't post, even though there are times I might wishE that to be the case. What irritated me with this one was that Bob hadi: already posted this "paragraph" in a different discussion.     Doc. -- d6 The bigger the humbug, the better people will like it.K ~ Phineas Taylor Barnum.                             https://vmsbox.cjb.nett   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 14 May 2002 09:41:09 +0100s( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1>' Subject: Re: Who cares about marketing! ) Message-ID: <3CE0CDA5.A429C91A@127.0.0.1>e   Bill Todd wrote: > 7 > "Nic Clews" <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1> wrote in message % > news:3CDF9665.15C4EA38@127.0.0.1...v >  > ...t > C > > Olson was the idiot who didn't believe in marketing, he thoughtfJ > > 'technology sells'. Well it did for a little while, but now look where* > > that lack of attention has got things. > 5 > Hey, shit-for-brains:  watch who you call an idiot.t > K > That idiot brought *every great product that DEC ever created* to market:aK > the PDP-8, -10, and -11, VAX, even Alpha; VMS (and a bunch of other greats > OSs); clusters, ...e   [snip]  F I'll gloss over your lack of professionalism in your reply. If this isA how you market your replies to anyone, you've fallen at the firsth hurdle. I digress...  @ I do not disagree that he brought many, many great computers andF peripherals in to the world. He is one of the greats, and I admire him$ for that. It is what made DEC great.  G However 'he' failed in the marketing department. Where were the advertsnF for Digital products? In DEC User and DEC Computing and similar. WhereG they in the mainstream? Not as much as the competitors. 'His' marketinga( consisted of preaching to the converted.  H Note I've used references to him in quotes, if not his job, then whom heC employed, failed to market. My belief however (and I'll stand to be A corrected) is that he believed 'the technology will sell itself'.O  2 The successors you refer to did the equivalent of:  F "Hey, we have some great computers, but the guy down the road, his areH even better, and his software, whayy it's so neat we've got an alliance,E and we're going to sell just what they do." Or worse, it's not reallyt important, it started badly.  F But the whole point of my post is that being successful with somethingG is not only bringing it to market, but also marketing it correctly. Twod# different uses for the word market.r  D I could have invented the best must-have gadget ever that would makeF your life so much easier, but unless I can convince you that it is theG right thing to buy, then I am the idiot, no matter how good it would be-G for you. Your attitude in this post clearly demonstrates that even if IrG had the right product just for you, you would simply not buy it becausemB we may not agree on principles, even if that product of mine fixed- everything you ever dreamed of. Again I fail.   L > Now, Olson's successors - clearly men without a smidgeon of his abilities,K > with the possible exception of Pfeiffer - certainly screwed up royally innM > failing to market the products they had inherited (and didn't do much with, M > save for Alpha and to some extent Tru64).  But that's hardly Olson's fault.o  @ We're talking two sets of abilities, technical (effectively) andG marketing. I'd describe his successors as working in the anti-marketingr department.s  E The biggest competitor to Digital in 'those days' was IBM. So why areaE IBM around, is it because they have better products? Or, perhaps they C knew how to market. "No-one gets fired for buying IBM". Imagine howt9 different life would be if DEC had thought of that first.:  ? History is littered with many (non computing) examples of whereeG technology alone does not sell. Having better products that anyone else02 is no good unless you can sell them, pun intended.   -- s( Regards, Nic Clews CSC Computer Sciences nclews at csc dot comn   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 14 May 2002 12:16:37 +0100 ' From: Elliott Roper <elliott@yrl.co.uk>n' Subject: Re: Who cares about marketing!h2 Message-ID: <140520021216377331%elliott@yrl.co.uk>  D In article <_50E8.5445$Tj3.856761@bin6.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>, Bill$ Todd <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote:  6 > "Elliott Roper" <elliott@yrl.co.uk> wrote in message. > news:140520020240284798%elliott@yrl.co.uk... >  > ...-J > > Selling the virtues of VMS in this newsgroup is preaching to the choir   > >mH > > I say let's go out and sell it. Unlike some other OS's I could name,' > > VMS won't let us down. Technically.d > >a > D > What you are advocating is morally questionable.  It boils down toM > convincing new customers that VMS is a solider long-term investment than itlN > actually seems (to insiders) to be, in the hopes that the resulting swellingJ > of the ranks will bolster its viability.  That would be ethical if thereM > were some *guarantee* that VMS's owner *would* react in the manner you hope:L > and that the risks you're advocating concealing from these innocents wouldM > in fact thus become minimal, but there's really no way to be at all sure ofaN > that - and hence hiding the risks from those you would 'sell it' to is not a > nice thing to do.d  C Rats Bill! I know your heart is in the right place. All you have tolD tell the customer is that the VMS system you buy today will still beG working and worth the money in 5 years or more. That's pretty good lifesC for a computer. There are plenty of ways you can be responsible andnD ethical in that timeframe. Not least you can point out that whateverG BillG wants to call NT8 might just about be ready for running more thanyC one production process per OS instance. There are plenty of ways to B make the software side portable. J2EE ? Goodness knows there are aA zillion people out there flogging migration tools to less capablenA platforms. Open source has got at least as scary a future in thatd? timeframe. Would you ethically advise someone to move to hourlyh patches- UX?  D What's ethical about advising someone to use a less capabable OS for five to 10 long years?  D Of course there will be situations where VMS's uncertain future willG not delight the customer or meet his needs, but let's not spill all ouruG tear-filled beer on the carpet. There will be times when you might haveS to use IBM..  @ We have been approaching this with what I call OS diversity. OurE systems run master/slave. We offer master and slave on different OS's 9 if we cannot convince the customer that VMS has the legs.m  > We are going to convince VMS's owner with lots of sales, and aD vigourous ISV community, not permanent whingeing in this news group.  K > > And a little less beating up on Fred. I sense he's getting ratty at us..I > > Think for a second of what value he and his little knot of developersNH > > has to our wage packets. It is not his job to pass on our whining toK > > his bosses, nor is it his job to find acceptable words to explain theira$ > > apparent uncaring actions to us. > J > And it's also not his job to rise up and vigorously defend the extremely/ > dubious actions his company has engaged in.  - That's what I said.   > If he hadn't done that, no one! > would be beating him up for it.m  E OK, be gentle and logical please Bill. Think about being in Fred-like.D shoes. You may not agree 100% with what has been going on above yourF head, you can see the mistakes that were made in the past, yet you canF honestly see that if the customer demand is there, VMS on Itanic has aE more certain future than backing the double with alpha. It's your jobID to make it happen. Then there is a swarm of Chicken Littles out on aD newsgroup bleating on and on about the sky falling. Wouldn't you getC ratty at a water-cooler full of Monday morning quarterbacks who arenE knocking what is pretty close to your life's work? And damn fine work 
 it is too.  D And that shit-for-brains remark from Nic? It's nostalgia I know, butF remember when all us ninnies in c.o.v were beating up Carl Lydick, whoE knew and clearly explained more VMS to more people than almost anyone G else in the world? When c.o.v had 1000 useful technical posts for everyd whinge about marketing?r  A So that's me on the subject of whingeing about marketing in c.o.v_ I'm back to work.u   ------------------------------    Date: 14 May 2002 05:47:40 -0700( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)' Subject: Re: Who cares about marketing!m< Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0205140447.3e7355e@posting.google.com>   Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <andrew_nospam.harrison_remove_this@sun#.com> wrote in message news:<aboa8p$20b$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>..., >> a/ > You do although you clearly don't realise it.t > 9 > You run software on your OpenVMS boxes, without SW theyH- > are about as usefull as a chocolate teapot.a > 9 > At some time in the future the SW suppliers will reviewn: > their choice of HW/OS platforms or decide what platforms > to deliver their new SW on.. > 	 > Regards  > Andrew Harrison   < you know, I recently have found some nice freeware, and I am7 beginning to believe that it will nicely supplement the-9 holes that exist from the isv's ... it has so far ... any 9 software that can run on unix/linux or java based can nowu? be ported pretty easy to vms ... ericoms java based web connect2= is an example ... with the core of vms and a good html clientR< solution, that is all that is needed for vms ... w/dibol and9 dcl I can write pretty much any other app that I need ...i= who cares if all the stupid glitz software isn't ported (i.e.t= sap) ... with all the other stuff, vms still is a very viables: platform, and will be esp. to the military thru 2011 and I> believe if all goes well w/itanic, beyond ... let it be target? marketed as hp says it will, it survived on its merits for overi> 20 years, and I predict it will do the same for another 20 ...= it is the greatest os on the world!  Don't you wish Sun ownedy= VMS Andrew?  Then we would be a customer of your!  Just showsu< your ceo has no vision!  He was even offered alpha just like> others, but I guess everyone at your company suffers that "Not% made here, not sold here" disease ...M   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 14 May 2002 12:45:23 GMT * From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>' Subject: Re: Who cares about marketing! A Message-ID: <DF7E8.60663$eV5.5057091@bin2.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>h  5 "Nic Clews" <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1> wrote in message # news:3CE0CDA5.A429C91A@127.0.0.1...o   ...n  2 > However 'he' failed in the marketing department.  	 Bullshit.M    Where were the advertsnH > for Digital products? In DEC User and DEC Computing and similar. WhereI > they in the mainstream? Not as much as the competitors. 'His' marketingj* > consisted of preaching to the converted.  J AND IT WORKED.  For close to 30 years, starting in the heyday of marketingH (the '50s) and continuing right up through most of the '80s.  99.999% ofL companies in the world can only dream of the kind of success this 'marketing failure' brought DEC.t  K As I said elsewhere, I suspect those who think conventional marketing is anoD absolute precondition to commercial success are youngsters who thinkH marketing is a recent invention that 'changed everything'.  Not only hasK extremely effective marketing been around longer than DEC was, but its mostnJ conspicuous successes have been with  a) commodities where the *only* realK way to differentiate products is by image and  b) non-necessities where theoK customer must be convinced to purchase something for which there is no realoJ need.  DEC proved that if one built a better mousetrap in a community rife8 with mice then the world would indeed flock to its door.   ...y  G > The biggest competitor to Digital in 'those days' was IBM. So why aremG > IBM around, is it because they have better products? Or, perhaps theyyE > knew how to market. "No-one gets fired for buying IBM". Imagine howw; > different life would be if DEC had thought of that first.t >gA > History is littered with many (non computing) examples of wheree! > technology alone does not sell.t  K But DEC provides a most dramatic counter-example of a case where technology=I alone *did* sell.  And, contrary to some recent assertions here that 'theuE better-marketed product always wins', it beat the hell out of all itsw better-marketed competitors.  H When it stopped working was when DEC stopped trying the best it could toK provide what its customers needed and diverted its attention to 'strategy',=E profit-maximization, and internal politics.  This was not a marketing I failure, and could not have been fixed by marketing activity (though that-; band-aid might have staved off the inevitable for a while).s   - bill   ------------------------------    Date: 14 May 2002 06:29:42 -0700. From: SPAMSINK2001@YAHOO.COM (Alan E. Feldman)' Subject: Re: Who cares about marketing!a= Message-ID: <343f30ae.0205140529.368bc318@posting.google.com>   { Doc.Cypher <Use-Author-Supplied-Address-Header@[127.1]> wrote in message news:<20020514064629.16256.qmail@gacracker.org>....A > On 13 May 2002, spamsink2001@yahoo.com (Alan E. Feldman) wrote: K > >Doc.Cypher <Use-Author-Supplied-Address-Header@[127.1]> wrote in messageo5 > >news:<20020511132404.27903.qmail@gacracker.org>...e> > >> On 11 May 2002, bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski) wrote: > >> b > >> <snip>c > >> y# > >> Re: Who cares about marketing?h > >t	 > >[snip]t > >nM > >> Anyway, didn't you notice that the lack of marketing is one of the areas C > >> where the majority of people in the newsgroup actually agree? t > >, > >iD > >So what's your point? The majority of people once agreed that all, > >heavenly bodies revolve around the earth. > L > My point is that perhaps Bob should ask himself why people have arrived atK > that conclusion, perhaps also look at the effects marketing could have one! > the long-term viability of VMS.b > G > >Of course I agree with the majority in this case, but why should hisa: > >disagreement with the majority be a reason not to post? > J > I didn't say he shouldn't post, even though there are times I might wishG > that to be the case. What irritated me with this one was that Bob had0< > already posted this "paragraph" in a different discussion.     OK.c   Discalimer: JMHO Alan E. Feldmano" afeldman atski gfigroup dotski com   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 14 May 2002 13:15:56 GMTu* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>' Subject: Re: Who cares about marketing! A Message-ID: <g68E8.11493$v81.1325032@bin4.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>   4 "Elliott Roper" <elliott@yrl.co.uk> wrote in message, news:140520021216377331%elliott@yrl.co.uk...   ...o   > All you have todF > tell the customer is that the VMS system you buy today will still beI > working and worth the money in 5 years or more. That's pretty good lifecE > for a computer. There are plenty of ways you can be responsible ande > ethical in that timeframe.  H Not if you start by being irresponsible/unethical at the very beginning.  *  Not least you can point out that whateverI > BillG wants to call NT8 might just about be ready for running more thaneE > one production process per OS instance. There are plenty of ways to0D > make the software side portable. J2EE ? Goodness knows there are aC > zillion people out there flogging migration tools to less capable5C > platforms. Open source has got at least as scary a future in thatnA > timeframe. Would you ethically advise someone to move to hourlye > patches- UX? > F > What's ethical about advising someone to use a less capabable OS for > five to 10 long years?  L What is unethical is concealing relevant information from the people you areJ trying to convince to buy VMS so that VMS *may* have a better future.  YouF advocate this again below, so you still clearly don't see the problem.   >aF > Of course there will be situations where VMS's uncertain future willI > not delight the customer or meet his needs, but let's not spill all ourtI > tear-filled beer on the carpet. There will be times when you might haven
 > to use IBM.s >sB > We have been approaching this with what I call OS diversity. OurG > systems run master/slave. We offer master and slave on different OS'sy; > if we cannot convince the customer that VMS has the legs.  >p@ > We are going to convince VMS's owner with lots of sales, and aF > vigourous ISV community, not permanent whingeing in this news group.  J There's plenty of evidence that we're not going to convince VMS's owner ofL *anything*.  And since this newsgroup exists not for VMS's owner but for theH benefit of VMS's users and potential users, discussing the owner's warts here is absolutely appropriate.a   >uI > > > And a little less beating up on Fred. I sense he's getting ratty atu us.:K > > > Think for a second of what value he and his little knot of developers J > > > has to our wage packets. It is not his job to pass on our whining toG > > > his bosses, nor is it his job to find acceptable words to explaina theird& > > > apparent uncaring actions to us. > >hL > > And it's also not his job to rise up and vigorously defend the extremely/ > > dubious actions his company has engaged in.  > That's what I said. " > > If he hadn't done that, no one# > > would be beating him up for it.d > ( > OK, be gentle and logical please Bill.  G I'm always logical, but have no inclination to be gentle after Compaq'sSL actions of last year.  In the absence of manifest contrition and attempts toJ repair the damage done, the people responsible for those actions should beJ made to pay for them, both as a matter of justice and to ensure insofar asH possible that anyone inclined to repeat such behavior in the future will/ have a *very* clear example to discourage them.t  A The culprits (Capellas being the man in charge, Robison an activeWI accomplice, the HPS group willing supporters, and Carly an after-the-fact K cheerleader)  a) scrapped technology representing real value to society andHL real effort by countless talented and dedicated people,  b) cavalierly brokeL repeated, strong, public commitments in the process,  c) lied about multipleL supposedly motivating conditions in an attempt to justify their actions,  d)H destroyed real shareholder value, and  e) ensured significant misery forK large numbers of Compaq (and now HP) employees - all because they felt likerB playing incompetently with technology they couldn't be bothered toB understand.  While I'm no fan of state-sponsored cruel and unusualE punishment, a punishment reflecting the actual damage done would findoH Capellas 'eviscerated' on Sun's front lawn and Carly stuffed and mountedF over the entrance to the NYSE as a reminder that CEOs really do have aL responsibility to act more carefully; absent such a response, the very leastC one should do is ensure that they are remembered as really bad (ando@ ineffective) management examples in all future business studies.    Think about being in Fred-likeYF > shoes. You may not agree 100% with what has been going on above yourH > head, you can see the mistakes that were made in the past, yet you canH > honestly see that if the customer demand is there, VMS on Itanic has aG > more certain future than backing the double with alpha. It's your jobe > to make it happen.  I Not in this newsgroup, it isn't.  When Fred participates here in anythingeJ other than a technical capacity, he's acting as an independent individual,, not doing anything that's 'part of his job'.   ...t  + > And that shit-for-brains remark from Nic?   I Was an entirely appropriate and measured response to his calling Olson an.J idiot.  Had he simply made a naive statement about marketing, I would have responded more 'gently'.   - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 14 May 2002 16:23:06 +0100 ( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1>' Subject: Re: Who cares about marketing!n) Message-ID: <3CE12BDA.47C2B852@127.0.0.1>b   Bill Todd wrote: > 7 > "Nic Clews" <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1> wrote in messagei% > news:3CE0CDA5.A429C91A@127.0.0.1...e >  > ...e > 4 > > However 'he' failed in the marketing department. >  > Bullshit.l >  >  Where were the advertseJ > > for Digital products? In DEC User and DEC Computing and similar. WhereK > > they in the mainstream? Not as much as the competitors. 'His' marketing , > > consisted of preaching to the converted. > L > AND IT WORKED.  For close to 30 years, starting in the heyday of marketingJ > (the '50s) and continuing right up through most of the '80s.  99.999% ofN > companies in the world can only dream of the kind of success this 'marketing > failure' brought DEC.2   ...l  D History. He we are ~15 years later and where is VMS? Technically farE superior than it was yet  not where it should be. This is a differentsH world, it is not a perfect world either but I disagreed with the FinanceE director of the last place for cutting marketing budgets in financiallC crises (he was since relieved of his duties after I left), and I'verH worked enough in the media industry to understand how the machine works.  ? Everything in the right balance, but failing to market in theset& connected times is commercial suicide.  F You have written a lot of sense, but dwelling on past mistakes doesn'tH help unless they are lessons learnt. These are not for you or I, but forF those whose job it is to market. Take a leaf from IBM's book. Do theirE adverts sing the qualities of their i series and how great OS/400 is?yH Perpetuate their linux and AIX strategy? Discuss LPAR's on the z series?  @ No, it creates a fairytale world where some unfeasible event hasE occurred, with all sat around blaming each other without an SLA or DR  plan in sight. Nonsense.  H Yet ask your neighbours, or anyone in the street about IBM. They'll know
 who they are.l  G An interesting test would be to see if folks could recall the 'dot com'r' Sun campaign of a couple of years back.t  = Ask them about the Intel processor and what it means to them.n  + Ask them about Bill Gates and what he does.s  F Then ask them what they think their Lotto or heathcare systems run on,H who's systems move the money, which run defence systems worldwide, whichD are used to run telephone systems, which ones are immune to viruses,& everything we know and love about VMS.  : I hope you'll educate them where the marketing has failed.  C I'm the converted, and worse, I have faith, whether you think it islF misplaced or not matters not to me. I am only one, it is everyone else and the message that counts.   VMS today will not sell itself.e  G I fear we will get no further on here, but what I do believe is we both  care passionately about VMS.   -- a( Regards, Nic Clews CSC Computer Sciences nclews at csc dot coms   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 14 May 2002 11:03:09 -0500M1 From: "Dave Gudewicz" <david.gudewicz@abbott.com>o' Subject: Re: Who cares about marketing! 1 Message-ID: <abrckp$gkf$1@fizban.pprd.abbott.com>   K A well reasoned message IMO.  Thanks.  Perhaps one that deserves being sentaG to other people.  People that don't frequent this ng.  People like.....v
 hint hint  :)a   -- Dave...a  ) Adam and Eve had many advantages, but then- principle one was that they escaped teething.  -----Mark Twaint  5 "Nic Clews" <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1> wrote in message # news:3CE12BDA.47C2B852@127.0.0.1...  > Bill Todd wrote: > >t9 > > "Nic Clews" <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1> wrote in message ' > > news:3CE0CDA5.A429C91A@127.0.0.1...d > >h > > ...e > >o6 > > > However 'he' failed in the marketing department. > >l
 > > Bullshit.k > >t > >  Where were the advertsYL > > > for Digital products? In DEC User and DEC Computing and similar. WhereC > > > they in the mainstream? Not as much as the competitors. 'His't	 marketingc. > > > consisted of preaching to the converted. > >rD > > AND IT WORKED.  For close to 30 years, starting in the heyday of	 marketing.L > > (the '50s) and continuing right up through most of the '80s.  99.999% ofE > > companies in the world can only dream of the kind of success thisl
 'marketing > > failure' brought DEC.n >n > ...w > F > History. He we are ~15 years later and where is VMS? Technically farG > superior than it was yet  not where it should be. This is a differenteJ > world, it is not a perfect world either but I disagreed with the FinanceG > director of the last place for cutting marketing budgets in financialhE > crises (he was since relieved of his duties after I left), and I'veaJ > worked enough in the media industry to understand how the machine works. > A > Everything in the right balance, but failing to market in thesee( > connected times is commercial suicide. >nH > You have written a lot of sense, but dwelling on past mistakes doesn'tJ > help unless they are lessons learnt. These are not for you or I, but forH > those whose job it is to market. Take a leaf from IBM's book. Do theirG > adverts sing the qualities of their i series and how great OS/400 is?gJ > Perpetuate their linux and AIX strategy? Discuss LPAR's on the z series? > B > No, it creates a fairytale world where some unfeasible event hasG > occurred, with all sat around blaming each other without an SLA or DRi > plan in sight. Nonsense. > J > Yet ask your neighbours, or anyone in the street about IBM. They'll know > who they are.w > I > An interesting test would be to see if folks could recall the 'dot com' ) > Sun campaign of a couple of years back.e >t? > Ask them about the Intel processor and what it means to them.  >u- > Ask them about Bill Gates and what he does.t >eH > Then ask them what they think their Lotto or heathcare systems run on,J > who's systems move the money, which run defence systems worldwide, whichF > are used to run telephone systems, which ones are immune to viruses,( > everything we know and love about VMS. > < > I hope you'll educate them where the marketing has failed. >vE > I'm the converted, and worse, I have faith, whether you think it istH > misplaced or not matters not to me. I am only one, it is everyone else > and the message that counts. >i! > VMS today will not sell itself.  >yI > I fear we will get no further on here, but what I do believe is we bothe > care passionately about VMS. >  > --* > Regards, Nic Clews CSC Computer Sciences > nclews at csc dot com    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 14 May 2002 10:06:26 -0500 : From: "Scandora, Anthony \(35048\)" <Scandora@cmt.anl.gov>& Subject: Re: [announce] FreeVMS 0.0.14+ Message-ID: <abr99b$uas$1@milo.mcs.anl.gov>0  < "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote in message! news:3CDDC989.F15E032E@fsi.net...g > ...s > One another, related topic:1 >nH > On project I might suggest to the readers is that translators from anyH > 3GL (including C, regardless of how you classify it) to Macro/32 wouldH > be *VERY* useful freeware items. The resulting code should be suitableJ > for use on OpenVMS-VAX and OpenVMA-Alpha as well as whatever evolves out  > of the current FreeVMS effort.  : That would be a huge project for a miniscule set of users.  K If there is really a demand for a free C for VMS, fix up GCC so it does VMSn right.  1 Tony Scandora, Argonne National Lab, 630-252-7541t scandora@cmt.anl.gov   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2002.266 ************************