1 INFO-VAX	Sat, 18 May 2002	Volume 2002 : Issue 273       Contents: Re: 7.3 for VAX  Re: ABC  RE: ABC  Re: Calling DecFroms from CXX 3 Re: Capellas: Linux, Windows Will 'Eviscerate' Unix 3 Re: Capellas: Linux, Windows Will 'Eviscerate' Unix 3 Re: Capellas: Linux, Windows Will 'Eviscerate' Unix 3 Re: Capellas: Linux, Windows Will 'Eviscerate' Unix 3 Re: Capellas: Linux, Windows Will 'Eviscerate' Unix 3 Re: Capellas: Linux, Windows Will 'Eviscerate' Unix 3 Re: Capellas: Linux, Windows Will 'Eviscerate' Unix 3 Re: Capellas: Linux, Windows Will 'Eviscerate' Unix 3 Re: Capellas: Linux, Windows Will 'Eviscerate' Unix 3 Re: Capellas: Linux, Windows Will 'Eviscerate' Unix 3 Re: Capellas: Linux, Windows Will 'Eviscerate' Unix 3 RE: Capellas: Linux, Windows Will 'Eviscerate' Unix 3 RE: Capellas: Linux, Windows Will 'Eviscerate' Unix 3 Re: Capellas: Linux, Windows Will 'Eviscerate' Unix 8 Re: Comments on ITUG/DECUS joint Euro conference in Lyon8 Re: Comments on ITUG/DECUS joint Euro conference in Lyon8 Re: Comments on ITUG/DECUS joint Euro conference in Lyon8 Re: Comments on ITUG/DECUS joint Euro conference in Lyon8 Re: Comments on ITUG/DECUS joint Euro conference in Lyon* Re: DECUS Lyon: Another VMS summary (long)& DHCP and ADSL: no view from outside???* Re: DHCP and ADSL: no view from outside???* Re: DHCP and ADSL: no view from outside???* Re: DHCP and ADSL: no view from outside??? Diskeeper Usage  Re: Diskeeper Usage - Re: Forced migration to HPHUX - Storm Warning  hello vitria4 Re: Hey, anyone notice that Netscape is different???4 Re: Hey, anyone notice that Netscape is different??? Re: HGFTP non-standard port  HP commits to VMS again ...  Re: HP commits to VMS again ...  Re: HP commits to VMS again ... ( Re: internet address on a Decserver 90TLP Re: Let go of VMS for the good of your career? (was "Re: System manager  availabP Re: Let go of VMS for the good of your career? (was "Re: System manager availablP Re: Let go of VMS for the good of your career? (was "Re: System manager availablP Re: Message to Scott Stallard (Was: Re: Forced migration to HPHUX -  Storm WarniP Re: Message to Scott Stallard (Was: Re: Forced migration to HPHUX - Storm WarninP Re: Message to Scott Stallard (Was: Re: Forced migration to HPHUX - Storm WarninD Re: Most unusual resident in a system ?, was: Re: No new Alpha salesD Re: Most unusual resident in a system ?, was: Re: No new Alpha salesD Re: Most unusual resident in a system ?, was: Re: No new Alpha sales' Newest version of DCPS and our problem. + Re: Newest version of DCPS and our problem. + Re: Newest version of DCPS and our problem. + Re: Newest version of DCPS and our problem.  Re: No new Alpha sales Re: No new Alpha sales Re: No new Alpha sales Re: No new Alpha sales Re: No new Alpha sales Re: No new Alpha sales RE: No new Alpha sales Re: OpenVMS SNMP TRAP % Problem Installing JDK 1.3.1 on 7.2-1 ) Re: Problem Installing JDK 1.3.1 on 7.2-1  SMTP MX gateways Re: System manager available Re: System manager available( TCPIP$PRINTCAP.DAT/UCX$PRINTCAP.DAT file Re: Tivoli ABC for VMS Re: Tivoli ABC for VMS> U.S. Dept. of Defense says only VMS fits their security model!) UCX server spuriously refuses connections - Re: UCX server spuriously refuses connections 4 Re: vax/alpha print to hp laser printers help needed? Re: VMS 7.3 upgrade problems - a bad workman blaming his tools? ? Re: VMS 7.3 upgrade problems - a bad workman blaming his tools? ? Re: VMS 7.3 upgrade problems - a bad workman blaming his tools? ? Re: VMS 7.3 upgrade problems - a bad workman blaming his tools? ? Re: VMS 7.3 upgrade problems - a bad workman blaming his tools? ? Re: VMS 7.3 upgrade problems - a bad workman blaming his tools? ? Re: VMS 7.3 upgrade problems - a bad workman blaming his tools? 5 Re: VMS GKS Manuals for giveaway in Richmond, VA area 5 Re: VMS GKS Manuals for giveaway in Richmond, VA area P Re: [Q]  How do you set the SQO bit in the FAB (FAB, RAB, which field has this bP Re: [Q]  How do you set the SQO bit in the FAB (FAB, RAB, which field has this b  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 17 May 2002 21:21:07 -0400 2 From: rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger) Subject: Re: 7.3 for VAXI Message-ID: <rdeininger-1705022121070001@1cust1.tnt1.nashua.nh.da.uu.net>   F In article <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIKEBGFAAA.tom@kednos.com>, "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> wrote:     B >I know we have had this discussion before, but I don't understandE >why HPQ doesn't provide for downloads of various versions of the OS.  > C >I downloaded Solaris last weekend, took less than an hour on a T1. 4 >This not about money, it is about customer service. >  >Anybody at HPQ listening?  H Probably not here, if you seek someone with decision-making authority to	 fix this.   J Have you contacted the folks in charge to express your concerns and needs?  I The email addresses for Gorham, Stallard, and others have been posed here 	 recently.    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 17 May 2002 13:14:49 -0500 1 From: "Dave Gudewicz" <david.gudewicz@abbott.com>  Subject: Re: ABC1 Message-ID: <ac3hg0$2eh$1@fizban.pprd.abbott.com>   I What is your question regarding, ABC (of which I know nothing) or ABS (of  which I know a little).    ABS uses VMS backup, btw.   - Lots of confusing alphabet soup in your post.    -- Dave...   ) Adam and Eve had many advantages, but the - principle one was that they escaped teething.  -----Mark Twain   ? "Lucas, Edward A (SAIC)" <Edward.Lucas@bp.com> wrote in message 9 news:EF1DC894691AD5118AF000508BB85FDE034CC62A@AMCLVX11...  > Hello everyone > G > The company I work for would like to change our backup system over to  > SSSI/ABC.  > 9 > Can anyone send me the thoughts/experience's using ABS.  > K > Currently I am using Tapesys. Tapesys uses VMSBU.EXE, ABC part of Tivoli. H > The backup server is a TSM server (replace ADSM).  ABC runs on the VMS > platform.  > H > I am a little confused.  ABC runs on the VMS platform and communicates with7 > a TSM server.  The TSM Server does the actual backup. J > On the TSM server the team needs to set us up with an account.  Hmmmmmm, NoH > IO or anytype of processing on my end.  Its like something is missing. >  > Edward A. Lucas " > Sr. VAX/VMS System Administrator > SAIC > Phone:  (216) 525-7492 > Email:   Lucaea@bp.com >  >    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 17 May 2002 14:31:44 -0400 * From: WILLIAM WEBB <WWEBB1@email.usps.gov> Subject: RE: ABC- Message-ID: <0033000064407735000002L052*@MHS>   # =0AAre you asking about ABS or ABC?   H ABS is an extremely configurable, extremely capable client/server produ= ct8 that comes as a VMS server and VMS, NT and UNIX clients.  H The learning curve's a little steep, but it runs like nobody's business=  once H you get it up and running and tweaked to do just what you want it to do= .    WWWebb     -----Original Message-----/ From: Info-VAX-Request@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNET " Sent: Friday, May 17, 2002 1:30 PMB To: Webb, William W Raleigh, NC; Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNET Subject: ABC     Hello everyone  E The company I work for would like to change our backup system over to 	 SSSI/ABC.   7 Can anyone send me the thoughts/experience's using ABS.   H Currently I am using Tapesys. Tapesys uses VMSBU.EXE, ABC part of Tivol= i.F The backup server is a TSM server (replace ADSM).  ABC runs on the VMS	 platform.   H I am a little confused.  ABC runs on the VMS platform and communicates = with5 a TSM server.  The TSM Server does the actual backup. H On the TSM server the team needs to set us up with an account.  Hmmmmmm= ,  No F IO or anytype of processing on my end.  Its like something is missing.   Edward A. Lucas   Sr. VAX/VMS System Administrator SAIC Phone:  (216) 525-7492 Email:   Lucaea@bp.com=    ------------------------------    Date: 17 May 2002 15:23:34 -0700) From: DWilliams@wga.com (Damian Williams) & Subject: Re: Calling DecFroms from CXX= Message-ID: <4e909558.0205171423.79924dbf@posting.google.com>    Duane,3 Thanks for the help as your solution did the trick.   t "Duane Smith" <Duane.Smith@nospam.compaq.com> wrote in message news:<3uME8.13$bk3.107622@cacnews.cac.cpqcorp.net>...M > When you see the linker list parameters as part of an undefined symbol this J > means that it is demangling C++ mangled names which include both routineH > information as well as parameter information.  You need to modify yourN > declaration of the DecForms routines to tell the C++ compiler that these are4 > external C routines and not external C++ routines. >  > #ifdef __cplusplus > extern "C" { > #endif >  > routine declarations >  > #ifdef __cplusplus > }  > #endif >  > Duane  >    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 17 May 2002 17:43:40 GMT * From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>< Subject: Re: Capellas: Linux, Windows Will 'Eviscerate' Unix> Message-ID: <gjbF8.9065$pa.913062@bin4.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>  : "Adam Price" <adam+usenet@pappnase.co.uk> wrote in message/ news:ac3f33$lmcmu$1@ID-138239.news.dfncis.de...  > 7 > "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote in message ; news:b%9F8.54730$fU2.4918903@bin8.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com...  > L > > Hmmm.  I find the moniker 'high-availability cluster' somewhat difficult toI > > justify for a system that leaves it to applications to handle storage J > > redundancy (which your description above suggests it might).  Once theI > > system takes responsibility for storage redundancy, considerably more  kernel > > support is required. > ? > Nah, storage redundancy should be done by the storage system.   E Not necessarily, but that's far too complex an issue to take up here.   H > Let the san manage it, just plug the nodes into the fibre switches and
 > let it run.   I That doesn't give you an available *system*, since it doesn't include any K mechanism to allow (safe) access to any given datum from more than one host E (either concurrently or, in a fail-over-style cluster, sequentially): 1 *that's* the point where kernel support comes in.    - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 17 May 2002 18:53:55 +0100 U From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <andrew_nospam.harrison_remove_this@sun#.com> < Subject: Re: Capellas: Linux, Windows Will 'Eviscerate' Unix0 Message-ID: <ac3gi4$crt$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   Bill Todd wrote:  % > "Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy" @ > <andrew_nospam.harrison_remove_this@sun#.com> wrote in message, > news:ac2ldm$4sp$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com... >  > ...  >  > @ >>The z900's do support 16 CPU's and 64 GB of RAM, quite how IBM@ >>think you could virtualise 1000's of indevidual Linux sessions@ >>on a system this memory limitted is a bit of a tricky question> >>to answer but then this is after all a mainframe so anything >>is possible :):):) >> > K > Thanks.  I did note that the maximum *central* memory supported is 64 GB. H > This *might* mean that additional 'extended' memory (something I dimlyN > recall from S/390 times past) was supported, but I didn't notice any mention > of it in a quick look. > J > But even 64 GB might be able to support several thousand sessions if  a)K > each had relatively modest dynamic storage requirements and  b) there was @ > some ability to share a single common copy of code among them. >     ; I am not sure that they can for Linux sessions hosted under 9 VM. This would be a galaxy type feature that IBM does not  support.  : Hence the difficulty of supporting 1000's of virtual Linux
 instances.   Regards    Andrew Harrison         ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 17 May 2002 20:03:05 +0100 & From: Ken Green <Ken.Green@kgcc.co.uk>< Subject: Re: Capellas: Linux, Windows Will 'Eviscerate' Unix* Message-ID: <3CE553E9.9F2B674A@kgcc.co.uk>   Bill Todd wrote:  5 > "Ken Green" <Ken.Green@kgcc.co.uk> wrote in message & > news:3CE4EA40.491CFA26@kgcc.co.uk... > > Bill Todd wrote: > > 9 > > > "Ken Green" <Ken.Green@kgcc.co.uk> wrote in message * > > > news:3CE216FD.65DA2AB1@kgcc.co.uk... > > > 	 > > > ...  > > > F > > > > For HP-UX  there has been at least three totally different non
 > overlapping ! > > > > uses of the word cluster.  > > > > K > > > > Diskless clusters (although that doesn't mean systems couldn't have  > disks)L > > > > This made a group of workstations act like a large single system, it > was K > > > > nothing like NFS diskless. All the systems had a single common root  > > > directory N > > > > and filesystem. 99.9% of admin was just the same as it would have been > for $ > > > > a single stand alone system.K > > > > I suspect if you asked most workstation or PC users what they would  > like6 > > > > a network to look like, it would be like this. > > > > & > > > > Computer clusters/snake farms.E > > > > A bunch of workstations (or any other box) with a distributed  > scheduler  > > > > " > > > > HA clusters/ Service GuardK > > > > A group of systems that watch each others backs, and lend a helping - > > > > hand if one system gets into trouble.  > > > > & > > > > These are all called clusters. >  > ...  > N > > The third option can also be created with very little kernel intervention.K > > HP's service only has one Kernel service to make it work, a safety time  > > to handle unhangs. > M > Hmmm.  I find the moniker 'high-availability cluster' somewhat difficult to G > justify for a system that leaves it to applications to handle storage H > redundancy (which your description above suggests it might).  Once theN > system takes responsibility for storage redundancy, considerably more kernel > support is required. >  > - bill  H As I'm sure you know, most peoples HA clusters are primarily designed toE support applications that are not cluster aware. So an instance of an M application runs on just one member of the cluster at a time. In the event of M a failure the application is restarted on an alternative node on the cluster.   J None of this requires any additional support from the kernel beyond normal8 volume management, and supporting multiple IP addresses.  J Now this is obviously not the way that a VMS cluster does it, but for most. situations it provides the needed level of HA.  I The one case which is hard to deal with in these designs is when a kernel H temporarily hangs, the userland heartbeating used to show cluster memberL health stops and if the hang is long enough the other members of the cluster2 vote you dead and take over control of your disks.  F If the system then un-hangs and, say continues with an IO operation toK disks that it no longer owns it would cause corruption. So a kernel timeout J is registered that causes a TOC if it's ever allowed to expire. Since thisI runs at a higher SPL than any IO code it can make sure that once the rest G of the cluster has decided your dead, that you will die without causing  disk corruption.  G As far as I'm aware the only concurrent access system currently running # on HP-UX is Oracle Parallel Server.   N I look forward to finding out how these situations are dealt with in VMS/Tru64	 clusters.      Cheers   Ken    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 17 May 2002 20:22:01 +0100 & From: Ken Green <Ken.Green@kgcc.co.uk>< Subject: Re: Capellas: Linux, Windows Will 'Eviscerate' Unix* Message-ID: <3CE55859.61FF842B@kgcc.co.uk>   Bill Todd wrote:  5 > "Ken Green" <Ken.Green@kgcc.co.uk> wrote in message & > news:3CE4E31B.B27CFEAB@kgcc.co.uk...G > > Thanks for your replies Bill, sorry for not responding straight way I > > but I wanted to think a little first (I realise this is not something - > > that is normally incouraged on Usenet :-)  > >  > >  > > Bill Todd wrote: > > 9 > > > "Ken Green" <Ken.Green@kgcc.co.uk> wrote in message * > > > news:3CE22A9C.D4CC9952@kgcc.co.uk... > > > > Bill Todd wrote: >  > ...  > $ > > >  Even if you can eliminate anyM > > > > overhead in having the shred capability in place when it is not being  > usedB > > > > you can still find it is being used when it is not needed. > > > M > > > I suppose in some systems that could be true.  But it's not in VMS:  on  > a E > > > per-file basis, if on file open it is noted that no one else is  > interestedK > > > in the file, the opening host obtains complete control over it and no H > > > distributed activity is required thereafter unless some other host
 > developsL > > > a concurrent interest in it (and if that host is found to be accessing > itK > > > more intensely than the original one, then the DLM moves coordinating ! > > > responsibility over there).i > > >  > >lG > > The problem here I was alluding to was one we saw a number of timesWI > > in DUX clusters. When any one system has the file open, then there is G > > no problem. When multiple systems have the file open read only thenuI > > again there is no problem. But if the file was then opened read/writecN > > control needs to pass to one system, and the others then no longer locally
 > > cache. >s3 > Perhaps in your implementation, but not in VMS's.s  E No because as you say you do your coherency control on a per IO basisUI rather than a per file basis. Although I'm slightly confused by a commentiE you, and Jan C. Vorbrggen made implying that the block level cachingEB was controlled by XFC, or will be when it actually works properly.   >i >y > ...  >mM > > > > I know I have a lot to learn, in my own case it's going to need to bei > from	 > > > theiL > > > > high level overview down to VMS distributed lock manager algorithms, > if
 > > > they? > > > > are going to show up in the HP-UX kernel in the future.d > > >n- > > > A pity HP isn't using the Tru64 kernel.i > > >  > >d3 > > I guess it's natural to want what we know best.kJ > > I hope that more co-operation happens than simply taking the Tru64 AFSN > > and cluster stuff and bolting these onto the HP-UX kernel. Hopefully thereJ > > will be a review of both kernels and the best parts will be choosen to
 > live on. > > L > > I'm not in a position to comment on the Tru64 kernel, but there are some > very# > > good features in the HP-UX one.L >eK > I'm not really in a position to comment on the internal implementation ofbD > either.  But I do suspect that if you could come up with a list ofL > significant HP-UX kernel features not present in Tru64 (and perhaps not inL > other Unix variants) it might make a lot of the Tru64 people somewhat lessG > inclined to consider taking their business elsewhere - and also mightaM > encourage them to reciprocate to give you a better idea of what they see asg> > HP-UX's deficiencies w.r.t. Tru64 that need to be addressed. >e > - bill  L I guess we all have a lot to learn about each other. Yes it would be nice ifG someone were to put together an indepth technical comparison of the twopG kernels. Whether such a document would ever be made public I don't know O since I'm sure the final merged kernel will be driven by political and businessv  " issues as much as technical merit.  H Unfortunately the Compaq software engineer I have taught about the HP-UXK kernel wasn't in a position to provide me with much comparision either, butp then" thats not what he was therefore:-)  K I personally would hope to be able to get hold of a Tru64 box at home laterP2 this year so I can start learning the differences.   Cheers   Kenb   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 17 May 2002 20:02:06 GMT * From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>< Subject: Re: Capellas: Linux, Windows Will 'Eviscerate' Unix@ Message-ID: <2ldF8.10197$pa.1029313@bin4.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>  3 "Ken Green" <Ken.Green@kgcc.co.uk> wrote in messaged$ news:3CE553E9.9F2B674A@kgcc.co.uk... > Bill Todd wrote:   ...   L > > Hmmm.  I find the moniker 'high-availability cluster' somewhat difficult toI > > justify for a system that leaves it to applications to handle storageeJ > > redundancy (which your description above suggests it might).  Once theI > > system takes responsibility for storage redundancy, considerably moreb kernel > > support is required. > > 
 > > - bill >dJ > As I'm sure you know, most peoples HA clusters are primarily designed to2 > support applications that are not cluster aware.  H My first impression was that you were talking about multiple cooperating< application instances, so that may have colored my response.    So an instance of anlL > application runs on just one member of the cluster at a time. In the event ofF > a failure the application is restarted on an alternative node on the cluster. >rL > None of this requires any additional support from the kernel beyond normal: > volume management, and supporting multiple IP addresses.  J So how does this 'normal volume management' take over the storage that theF application was using on the other node without any kernel support?  IL suspect this requires at least a cascading fail-over plan for inheritance ofK storage resources (which I wouldn't quite call 'normal volume management'). G But if concurrent access by multiple application instances on different?F nodes is *not* part of what you're describing, it indeed significantly- reduces the required level of kernel support.s   - bill   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 17 May 2002 20:31:13 GMTt* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>< Subject: Re: Capellas: Linux, Windows Will 'Eviscerate' UnixA Message-ID: <lMdF8.50283$Ze4.5178947@bin5.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>t  3 "Ken Green" <Ken.Green@kgcc.co.uk> wrote in messageb$ news:3CE55859.61FF842B@kgcc.co.uk...   ...   $ > I'm slightly confused by a commentG > you, and Jan C. Vorbrggen made implying that the block level cachingoD > was controlled by XFC, or will be when it actually works properly.  I It's hard for me to comment in detail about XFC:  I know how *I'd* designtH it, but have no real information about how Ian and friends actually did.  L My guess, given how the VMS lock manager works, is that XFC will only extendG the current mechanisms rather than replace them (i.e., that block-levelaI caching will still be coordinated via the DLM, but that XFC will, perhapsxK also using the DLM or its own messages, allow data to be sent directly fromUL one host's cache to another's, similar to the Oracle cache-fusion approach).  D An interesting side-question is how all the above will interact withK RMS-level caching in VMS (I don't even know how the current VIOC mechanismsrK interact with RMS-level caching, whether application-local or in RMS global I buffers:  there may be significant redundancy in memory use there, or RMStJ may be able to tell the lower levels not to cache - but this would seem toK subvert some of the new XFC abilities).  You can think of both XFC and VIOC G as at least somewhat similar in principle to Unix's system cache (and I0H think they interact with other use of system memory somewhat like Unix'sG unified buffer cache approaches do), but RMS caching takes place on therJ process rather than the system level (though is still managed across nodesE by DLM mechanisms, and is IIRC protected from direct access by errant  application code).   - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 17 May 2002 16:50:10 -0400n- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>=< Subject: Re: Capellas: Linux, Windows Will 'Eviscerate' Unix, Message-ID: <3CE56D02.5ADF8F10@videotron.ca>   Naive question:3  N My ISP claims to have some large SUN cluster to store inbound emails and allow retrieval by users via POP.h  E I would assume that the storage is done on some sort of storage arrayIE accessible by any of the nodes on that sun cluster. Is that correct ?u  K If non-VMS clusters do not have distributed lock managers, how do they deal F with one node depositing a message in my mailbox while another node is7 accessing and deleting messages from the same mailbox ?a  M Does the storage array have the smarts to understand the file system and lockkL semantics for that particular OS so that it can grant or deny a lock request
 by any node ?    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 17 May 2002 21:36:41 +0100A& From: Ken Green <Ken.Green@kgcc.co.uk>< Subject: Re: Capellas: Linux, Windows Will 'Eviscerate' Unix* Message-ID: <3CE569D9.78012048@kgcc.co.uk>   Bill Todd wrote:  5 > "Ken Green" <Ken.Green@kgcc.co.uk> wrote in messageR& > news:3CE553E9.9F2B674A@kgcc.co.uk... > > Bill Todd wrote: >9 > ...o >nN > > > Hmmm.  I find the moniker 'high-availability cluster' somewhat difficult > toK > > > justify for a system that leaves it to applications to handle storage.L > > > redundancy (which your description above suggests it might).  Once theK > > > system takes responsibility for storage redundancy, considerably moree > kernel > > > support is required. > > >t > > > - bill > >mL > > As I'm sure you know, most peoples HA clusters are primarily designed to4 > > support applications that are not cluster aware. >CJ > My first impression was that you were talking about multiple cooperating> > application instances, so that may have colored my response. >l >  So an instance of an N > > application runs on just one member of the cluster at a time. In the event > ofH > > a failure the application is restarted on an alternative node on the
 > cluster. > >sN > > None of this requires any additional support from the kernel beyond normal< > > volume management, and supporting multiple IP addresses. >aL > So how does this 'normal volume management' take over the storage that theH > application was using on the other node without any kernel support?  IN > suspect this requires at least a cascading fail-over plan for inheritance ofM > storage resources (which I wouldn't quite call 'normal volume management').oI > But if concurrent access by multiple application instances on differentmH > nodes is *not* part of what you're describing, it indeed significantly/ > reduces the required level of kernel support.e >  > - bill  ? Your right, not having to do concurrent access makes life easy.e  ? For soft failure the failover can be performed by umounting the < disks and deactivating the volume group on the current node," and then activating it on another.  ? Node failures are of course even easier, the adoptive node just 5 activates the volume group and mount the filesystems.r  < For MC/ServiceGuard, a userland cmlvmd provides volume groupF locking, but since the API to LVM is not published, the kernel doesn'tA need to get involved. The LVM commands can check with the daemon.,   Cheers   Ken3   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 17 May 2002 21:10:07 GMTo* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>< Subject: Re: Capellas: Linux, Windows Will 'Eviscerate' Unix? Message-ID: <PkeF8.8099$yl.1294652@bin3.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>a  : "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message& news:3CE56D02.5ADF8F10@videotron.ca...   ...s  < > If non-VMS clusters do not have distributed lock managers,  L Well, at least two non-VMS clusters (Tru64 and IBM p-Series) do have (clones of) the VMS DLM.    how do they deal>H > with one node depositing a message in my mailbox while another node is9 > accessing and deleting messages from the same mailbox ?p  F Some single node serves the section of storage your mailbox is on, andI coordinates locks to clients (as NFS lock servers do).  I suppose in somemI sense this qualifies as 'distributed locking' (since multiple clients cantL hold at least instantaneous locks on the same data) but it certainly doesn'tG match the VMS facilities (and falls more under the class of centralizedt" algorithms than distributed ones).   - bill   ------------------------------    Date: 18 May 2002 03:47:19 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>< Subject: Re: Capellas: Linux, Windows Will 'Eviscerate' Unix0 Message-ID: <877km2sgjc.fsf@k9.prep.synonet.com>  ( Ken Green <Ken.Green@kgcc.co.uk> writes:  D > The problem with coherence isn't affected by whether the disks are@ > local to one system or to all, the problem is that if multipleE > copies exist in the memory of the members of the cluster how do youiF > ensure if one member modifies all the other members invalidate their > copies atomically.  E Step one, take the unix buffer cache out and destroy that part of the.E brain... VMS uses direct to the process IO, not IO to the kernel withK@ a copy to the process, so there can well be NO cache at all. RMS- Global buffers are the common exception here.     ...   < > It's a question of how the DLM keeps track, and when nodes) > effectively need to check with the DLM.r  B Second point, the DLM does not *enforce* anything. It is a totallyD co-operative system. For any 'thing', devise, file, record, range ofF byte addresses, queue, directory, user do-hickey, there is a `resourceD name' that can be used to mediate access to the resource. (note, youA do not even need anything real for this to be usefull. So you canuA create a resource and lock it on a node.  If that node fails, the A other nodes can now obtain the lock and take over from the failed  node, as an example.)   F > > > If you do it on a per file basis, it's much easier. At open timeD > > > you check whether you are the only node accessing the file, orF > > > that all nodes accessing are only open for reading, in this caseC > > > there is no problem with caching at both ends. However once alF > > > node opens a shared file for writes then the caching needs to beF > > > done in just one place, or as above checking for conflicts needsC > > > to be performed on a per IO basis, or write only basis with a  > > > local cache directory.  C > > Yes, but it is in reality worse than you describe, as there are D > > all sorts of 'details' in extending, truncating etc that must be > > totally right always.y > >t  E > In the DUX model, once concurrent access, with at least one writer,rE > starts (it used the idea of opened with write enabled) then cachingsC > was only performed on the system that physically had the disk. InsD > the shared disk access model of the HSC... etc, of XPs with FC, orE > multi initiator SCSI... what ever then I guess it's upto the DLM toeF > decide where best to cache, the server local, client remote model ofB > DUX ( or I guess LAVC, is that still around?)  then I guess it's! > easier to decide on who caches.n  eC > Anyway, who's caching doesn't much matter. The point was only onee@ > system cached, that way there can be no coherency trouble, but$ > clients see long access latencies.  E That is shared access in my book. VMS does not do this at all. At thesB most, a system will serve blocks for another systems class driver.  tC > Truncating doesn't affect this, it can be considered as just likebD > any other write.  On Unix, files can be sparse, I seem to rememberB > that VMS' view of files is somewhat different, so I have no ideaE > whether it supports sparse files, if not Then I guess truncates arei > a different problem.  D ODS files are extent based. Any file is a ordered list of extents ofC blocks. (A block btw, is *defined* to be 512 bytes. It is up to thexE driver to do the various fudging to make this so.) So the file systemeA is VERY different to any of the unix systems. It does not have touB provide anything other than block access to the process.  Although= truncation is simple in principle, doing it so it is safe andiB completable is a far trickier matter! It is also why you get a big4 performance hit cf unix file systms for some things.  C The nice thing about VMS, is that the tools are good enough for youaC to pick up a lot of the stuff on a running system. With the VMS FAQcA in one hand, and SDA in the other you are set. To begin anyway :)   ? Getting a copy of the ODS-2 specs from the SIG tapes from years D ago is a very good start. Once you have a handle on the file system,! then you can move out from there.l   -- l< Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda. @                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------    Date: 17 May 2002 18:35:13 -0600+ From: kuhrt@encompasserve.org (Marty Kuhrt)s< Subject: Re: Capellas: Linux, Windows Will 'Eviscerate' Unix3 Message-ID: <HuCiXR+ot4Mj@eisner.encompasserve.org>n  S In article <3CE4CC34.EDF57A9A@kgcc.co.uk>, Ken Green <Ken.Green@kgcc.co.uk> writes:S > "Jan C. Vorbrggen" wrote: > L >> > of the HSC... etc, of XPs with FC, or multi initiator SCSI... what everA >> > then I guess it's upto the DLM to decide where best to cache  >>K >> The DLM provides the mechanisms for coordination, but doesn't coordinatesL >> things itself. THe XQP does coordination for the file system-level stuff,D >> RMS does it for records in files, and XFC (once it actually worksM >> proporly) for the (distributed) block cache. You (or Oracle or...) can usee1 >> it to coordinate activity in your application.  >> >>         Jan > K > It's the block level cache'ing that had intriugued me, it's that bit thath > lookslI > difficult. From your comments I'm not the only one who thinks thats the. > hard part. >   D Block level cluster-wide data caching have been around as commercialE VMS products since 1990, or thereabouts.  DiskXcel, PerfectCache and m IOExpress to name a few.     ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 17 May 2002 21:01:11 -0400i' From: "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@hp.com>h< Subject: RE: Capellas: Linux, Windows Will 'Eviscerate' UnixT Message-ID: <BE56C50EA024184DAF48F0B9A47F5CF4026606DE@kaoexc01.americas.cpqcorp.net>   Ken,  ; >>> I guess we all have a lot to learn about each other.<<<v  F As a suggestion, the technical details for OpenVMS clustering can be =	 found at: J http://www.openvms.compaq.com:8000/73final/4477/4477pro_002.html#integ_av= ail   < http://www.openvms.compaq.com:8000/73final/4477/4477PRO.HTML  H http://www.openvms.compaq.com:8000/index.html#ovmsdocset Online system = doc set    Regardsn  
 Kerry Main Senior Consultantk Hewlett-Packard Canada! Consulting & Integration Servicesi Voice: 613-592-4660  Fax  :  819-772-7036 Email: Kerry.Main@hp.com     -----Original Message-----0 From: Ken Green [mailto:Ken.Green@kgcc.co.uk]=20 Sent: May 17, 2002 3:22 PM To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Coma< Subject: Re: Capellas: Linux, Windows Will 'Eviscerate' Unix     Bill Todd wrote:  8 > "Ken Green" <Ken.Green@kgcc.co.uk> wrote in message=20& > news:3CE4E31B.B27CFEAB@kgcc.co.uk...J > > Thanks for your replies Bill, sorry for not responding straight way=20B > > but I wanted to think a little first (I realise this is not=207 > > something that is normally incouraged on Usenet :-)h > >6 > >p > > Bill Todd wrote: > >d< > > > "Ken Green" <Ken.Green@kgcc.co.uk> wrote in message=20* > > > news:3CE22A9C.D4CC9952@kgcc.co.uk... > > > > Bill Todd wrote: >s > ...  >P$ > > >  Even if you can eliminate anyJ > > > > overhead in having the shred capability in place when it is not=20
 > > > > beingY > usedB > > > > you can still find it is being used when it is not needed. > > >nG > > > I suppose in some systems that could be true.  But it's not in=20I > > > VMS:  on > a'E > > > per-file basis, if on file open it is noted that no one else isv > interestedJ > > > in the file, the opening host obtains complete control over it and =  I > > > no distributed activity is required thereafter unless some other=20 
 > > > host
 > developsE > > > a concurrent interest in it (and if that host is found to be=20o > > > accessingo > itA > > > more intensely than the original one, then the DLM moves=20i. > > > coordinating responsibility over there). > > >- > >-J > > The problem here I was alluding to was one we saw a number of times=20I > > in DUX clusters. When any one system has the file open, then there=20sH > > is no problem. When multiple systems have the file open read only=20F > > then again there is no problem. But if the file was then opened=20J > > read/write control needs to pass to one system, and the others then=20 > > no longer locally cache. >f3 > Perhaps in your implementation, but not in VMS's.o  G No because as you say you do your coherency control on a per IO basis =oC rather than a per file basis. Although I'm slightly confused by a = I comment you, and Jan C. Vorbr=FCggen made implying that the block level = B caching was controlled by XFC, or will be when it actually works =	 properly.i   >s >e > ...  >pJ > > > > I know I have a lot to learn, in my own case it's going to need=20
 > > > > to ben > from	 > > > theoC > > > > high level overview down to VMS distributed lock manager=20. > > > > algorithms,f > if
 > > > they? > > > > are going to show up in the HP-UX kernel in the future.  > > > - > > > A pity HP isn't using the Tru64 kernel.r > > >n > >n3 > > I guess it's natural to want what we know best.iI > > I hope that more co-operation happens than simply taking the Tru64=20tE > > AFS and cluster stuff and bolting these onto the HP-UX kernel.=20tJ > > Hopefully there will be a review of both kernels and the best parts=20 > > will be choosen to
 > live on. > >sJ > > I'm not in a position to comment on the Tru64 kernel, but there are=20 > > some > very# > > good features in the HP-UX one.a >eJ > I'm not really in a position to comment on the internal implementation =  J > of either.  But I do suspect that if you could come up with a list of=20H > significant HP-UX kernel features not present in Tru64 (and perhaps=20H > not in other Unix variants) it might make a lot of the Tru64 people=20I > somewhat less inclined to consider taking their business elsewhere -=20sJ > and also might encourage them to reciprocate to give you a better idea =  J > of what they see as HP-UX's deficiencies w.r.t. Tru64 that need to be=20 > addressed. >. > - bill  F I guess we all have a lot to learn about each other. Yes it would be =I nice if someone were to put together an indepth technical comparison of =bF the two kernels. Whether such a document would ever be made public I =E don't know since I'm sure the final merged kernel will be driven by =i political and business  " issues as much as technical merit.  J Unfortunately the Compaq software engineer I have taught about the HP-UX =I kernel wasn't in a position to provide me with much comparision either, =l+ but then thats not what he was therefore:-)l  G I personally would hope to be able to get hold of a Tru64 box at home =i8 later this year so I can start learning the differences.   Cheers   Kens   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 17 May 2002 21:31:35 -0400t' From: "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@hp.com>o< Subject: RE: Capellas: Linux, Windows Will 'Eviscerate' UnixT Message-ID: <BE56C50EA024184DAF48F0B9A47F5CF4026606DF@kaoexc01.americas.cpqcorp.net>   Andrew,t  ) >>> BEA WLS is one major release back,<<<   E V7.0 of BEA WLS was just released, and I suspect the number of Cust'su" using V7 in prod is almost nil.=20  G BEA WLS V6.1 SP2 (version most Customers are still using) on OpenVMS isn definitely supported.=20  B My understanding is that there are aggressive plans to also get V7 released on OpenVMS asap.f  = <http://www.weblogic.com/platforms/index.html#compaq_openvms>cJ <http://commerce.bea.com/SoftwareProductDetailWLS?SWName=3DWebLogic+Serve= rmJ +Evaluation+Software&SWVersion=3DVersion+6.1+SP2&SWPlatform=3DCompaq+Open= VMS. >      Regards-  
 Kerry Main Senior Consultante Hewlett-Packard Canada! Consulting & Integration Services. Voice: 613-592-4660= Fax  :  819-772-7036 Email: Kerry.Main@hp.com     -----Original Message-----' From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancys7 [mailto:andrew_nospam.harrison_remove_this@sun#.com]=20  Sent: May 17, 2002 6:32 AM To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.ComP< Subject: Re: Capellas: Linux, Windows Will 'Eviscerate' Unix         Bob Ceculski wrote:b  & > Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy=20C > <andrew_nospam.harrison_remove_this@sun#.com> wrote in message=20m. > news:<ac0dt9$f3a$2@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>... >=20 >>Bob Ceculski wrote:w >> >>> >>>JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message=20+ >>>news:<3CDC104D.938DB683@videotron.ca>...r >>>  >>>s >>>>Bob Ceculski wrote:l >>>> >>>>H >>>>>it already has survived, and I would say that jstars, miltary, DOD,  H >>>>>US gov use, Cerner, Pitts. Super Computing and the list goes on and  I >>>>>on are the reason vms will survive ... MPE was 16 bit, neglected,=20L >>>>>no clustering,v >>>>>e >>>>> B >>>>Consider some recent "super computing" deal that HP signed,=20H >>>>promising to deliver a super machine with over 1000 CPus based on=20I >>>>IA64. Sounds to me that HP isn't even interested in selling Alphas=20nF >>>>NOW, they prefer to delay cash input until IA64 is actually ready. >>>>A >>>>Secondly, jstarts, military etc are just like existing MPE=20 I >>>>customers: they will continue to receive support. They do not mean=20e, >>>>that VMS will continue to be developped. >>>> >>>>D >>>the only tools vms needs are in place ... "C" and Java and ApacheG >>>(html,xml) are in place ... anything can now be ported w/relative=20pI >>>ease from unix/linux ... 3rd party vendors/shareware will take over=20 B >>>from here ... ports have already begun, esp. java (BEA,Ericom)! >>>a >>> # >>No BEA is actually a bad example.h >>H >>WLS is available but OpenVMS support lags other platforms and other=20F >>BEA ecommerce products do not run on OpenVMS meaning that you are=20H >>unlikely to pick up any platform business if you are in an environment  8 >>where other BEA products are required appart from WLS. >>	 >>Regardsb >>Andrew Harrisono >> >=20B > we are talking web platform here ... other services can be found > elsewhere or written ... >=20    E A portal server is a web platform, BEA portal server is not supported  on OpenVMS.p  F BEA WLS is one major release back, even Tuxedo is 2 major releases out on OpenVMS etc etc etc.        Regardsh Andrew Harrison    ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 18 May 2002 01:55:41 GMTe* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>< Subject: Re: Capellas: Linux, Windows Will 'Eviscerate' UnixA Message-ID: <xwiF8.59529$fU2.5419924@bin8.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>l  9 "Paul Repacholi" <prep@prep.synonet.com> wrote in message * news:877km2sgjc.fsf@k9.prep.synonet.com...* > Ken Green <Ken.Green@kgcc.co.uk> writes: >iF > > The problem with coherence isn't affected by whether the disks areB > > local to one system or to all, the problem is that if multipleG > > copies exist in the memory of the members of the cluster how do youCH > > ensure if one member modifies all the other members invalidate their > > copies atomically. >iG > Step one, take the unix buffer cache out and destroy that part of thek
 > brain...  J Sorry, Paul, but the lack of a Unix-style buffer cache is more a detrimentJ than an asset to VMS.  VIOC is a step toward a VMS system-level cache, andL XFC another bigger one, but for most typical use the Unix approach is likelyJ better still - and really doesn't introduce any more sharing problems than5 current VMS distributed caching/buffering mechanisms.r  =  VMS uses direct to the process IO, not IO to the kernel with > > a copy to the process, so there can well be NO cache at all.  H Depends on how you look at it.  Only application-specified block I/O (orK 'locate-mode' access, if that still exists) avoids a buffering layer - justsH because it happens to be in P1 space rather than Sx space doesn't reallyH make much difference (except that other local processes can't share it).    RMS/ > Global buffers are the common exception here.s  L Another not-so-great excuse for Unix-style system caching.  RMS *could* haveI chosen to create a Unix-like system cache instead of implementing 'global G buffers' way back when, but that didn't fit as well with RMS's layeringiJ model (and real-time advocates may have preferred to have somewhat tighterE control over system memory use, though it's not clear that equivalenteI controls couldn't be obtained by establishing quotas and/or priorities ong system cache use).   ...e  E > > Truncating doesn't affect this, it can be considered as just likeeF > > any other write.  On Unix, files can be sparse, I seem to rememberD > > that VMS' view of files is somewhat different, so I have no ideaG > > whether it supports sparse files, if not Then I guess truncates areb > > a different problem.  J Considered commenting on this before, but got lazy.  I'm not familiar withL the details of Unix-style byte-range locks, so it's possible that a truncateL can just take out a write-style range lock on the section truncated and haveJ it 'just work' (though since it would have to wait for *every* conflictingI read or write lock to be released, it could take a while).  VMS locks arefL slightly different in that they operate on names and hence don't accommodateH amorphous (and potentially overlapping) entities like byte (or truncate)E ranges easily.  I don't know exactly how VMS handles byte-range locksiI themselves let alone truncate ranges, but I suspect it is indeed (as Paul  suggests) a bit messy.   >eF > ODS files are extent based. Any file is a ordered list of extents ofE > blocks. (A block btw, is *defined* to be 512 bytes. It is up to the G > driver to do the various fudging to make this so.) So the file system C > is VERY different to any of the unix systems. It does not have to D > provide anything other than block access to the process.  Although? > truncation is simple in principle, doing it so it is safe andnD > completable is a far trickier matter! It is also why you get a big6 > performance hit cf unix file systms for some things.  L Not sure that the use of extents makes any real difference here:  after all,D several Unix file systems are extent-based (XFS, VxFS, I think JFS).   >bE > The nice thing about VMS, is that the tools are good enough for youlE > to pick up a lot of the stuff on a running system. With the VMS FAQiC > in one hand, and SDA in the other you are set. To begin anyway :)  >tA > Getting a copy of the ODS-2 specs from the SIG tapes from yearsrF > ago is a very good start. Once you have a handle on the file system,# > then you can move out from there.y  H As I said, I'm not sure that the actual on-disk structure makes too muchH difference.  Inodes correspond at least moderately closely to index-fileJ entries, etc.  The use of careful-update sequences in ODS-2 in contrast toH many Unix file systems (which range from using prayer plus fsck to usingE transaction logs to protect integrity) *is* a significant difference, ; however, especially in how the clustered file system works.    - bill   ------------------------------  + Date: Fri, 17 May 2002 23:12:42 +0000 (UTC)a, From: "pos" <paul.osullivan3@btinternet.com>A Subject: Re: Comments on ITUG/DECUS joint Euro conference in Lyonc1 Message-ID: <ac42pa$igj$1@knossos.btinternet.com>i  I maybe some comments on what people actually thought of the content of the.L conference would be more useful. From a syadmin standpoint, look at the body count:0 - CA were practically trying to hide their booth	  - no BMCe* - no Heroix (big in Europe on VMS sysadmin - no Openview :)   pos   . "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> wrote in message? news:wFQE8.8684$ah_.779@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com...b" > The following is excerpted from:; > http://www.openvms.org/stories.php?story=02/05/14/1646308s >R >iJ > "Live on Tape: Scott Stallard Key customer and employee visits precludedI > Scott Stallard, the newly-minted head of the New HP's Business CriticalrK > Systems group, from attending the Lyon event. Mr. Stallard did assert histJ > presence in a videotaped interview wherein he assured customers that the New D > HP will continue to aggressively promote and sell OpenVMS-based HP3 > AlphaServers as long as customer demand exists. "W > L > *** (added comment) The big question is whether HP is be doing ANYTHING toE > actively STIMULATE demand of VMS, whether on Alpha today or IA64 in  severalv > years. >t >nI > "We expect [customer demand] to exist for at least several years beyondl the-I > 2004 introduction of EV79-based AlphaServers," Stallard said. Since the9 New0L > HP will continue to support HP AlphaServers for at least five years beyondK > their final sales date, customers can be sure that their Alpha investment 0 > will be protected well into the next decade. " >,E > *** (added comment) Nice about the support for Alpha for at least 5 C > additional years...that sort of thing is also mandated by federal:L > regulations, so HP isn't really going out of its way to be nice guys here. >iH > *** (added comment) But where are Stallard's comments about giving the; > marketing of VMS some prominence in the HP constellation?  >t > L > Alpha: A Marvelous Future at the New HP Among the featured speakers duringE > Lyon Day One was Alpha Systems Division VP and General Manager Rich H > Marcello, who offered a multitude of reasons why it's safe to bet your4 > business on the New HP's Alpha and IPF technology. >hH > OpenVMS Group VP Mark Gorham followed up with a detailed review of theF > OpenVMS roadmap (again, no surprises here, except to competitors who falselyrJ > claim that the New HP will abandon the OpenVMS customer constituency andG > force users to embark on a near-term migration) and the status of thed< > VMS-to-IPF port (which is on track and ahead of schedule). >tK > We'll provide detailed coverage of the Marcello and Gorham presentations,  asH > well as the presentations delivered by NonStop Division VP and GeneralH > Manager Pauline Nist, EMEA Alpha Systems Director Tom Yeates, and UNIXG > specialist Don Jenkins. Stay tuned for more in-depth ITUG/DECUS Joint ) > Conference coverage in the coming days.c >h >uL > *** (added comment) I don't think the issue is one of HP saying to currentH > VMS customers, "We're closing up the shop today. It's more an issue ofK > whether VMS customers will be able to know with certainty that HP will beeG > actively promoting VMS to non-VMS customers of IBM, Sun, SGI, Windows  users,J > as the best alternative for their businesses. Only in that way can ISV's beL > comfortable in supplying products and services to the VMS marketplace. AndL > only in that way can current and prospective customers be assured that VMS? > is a safe place for their companies to invest the IT dollars.i >& >t >a   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 17 May 2002 21:02:33 -0400i2 From: rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger)A Subject: Re: Comments on ITUG/DECUS joint Euro conference in Lyon I Message-ID: <rdeininger-1705022102340001@1cust1.tnt1.nashua.nh.da.uu.net>s  H In article <craig.berry-7F74BC.11512217052002@news.directvinternet.com>,D "Craig A. Berry" <craig.berry@nospam.SignalTreeSolutions.com> wrote:   >In article ? ><rdeininger-1605022026270001@1cust2.tnt1.nashua.nh.da.uu.net>,d5 > rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger) wrote:  >e >[lots of snippage]y >c' >>VMS is NOT a big piece of the new HP.i >T >[and more snippage] >KE >I saw somewhere that HP-UX has 1.6 million installed systems, which 9F >would make the size of the customer base about 4 times the oft-cited G >400K VMS systems in use.  (I have no idea what the comparative profit pF >or revenue per system would be.)  This surprised me as I thought the G >difference would have been much greater.  In other words, VMS may not uH >be as tiny a part of the new HP as folks beaten down by years of abuse ' >and neglect might tend to think it is.i  H Interesting.  Of course, HP-UX is only part of HP classic.  Don't forget the printers and toner.o  F Of course, Stallard knows the HP-UX business very well.  He is (or wasI until about a week ago) relying on VMS information filtered through othert people.   F Perhaps instead of small, I should have said VMS is a "little noticed"J part of the new HP.  VMS is part of one of the lackluster divisions in theI lackluster company that HP just acquired.  Since Compaq never shouted VMSaE from the rooftops, the HP folks likely didn't hear too much about VMSe& leading up to the close of the merger.   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 18 May 2002 01:21:55 GMTe' From: Jeffrey Chimene <jeff@nospam.net>oA Subject: Re: Comments on ITUG/DECUS joint Euro conference in Lyone* Message-ID: <3CE5ACCF.B2674DD4@nospam.net>  - I'm sorry, I just can't let this slide by ...   D It's not like HP didn't "know" about OpenVMS prior to the merger: HPJ & DEC went mano-a-mano in the mini-computer market for almost [1] 20 yearsF (circa 80 - 95). They marketed MPE as a VMS competitor in a variety ofC hardware configurations. I refuse to believe that like Moses in thebC bulrushes, HPQ "found" OpenVMS and doesn't know the history of that.K foundling. To credit their statements to "market ignorance" buys into theire disengenuous behavior.  ( Regards to one who is a Voice Of Reason,   ject   [1]i3     Didn't HP also have a competitor to the PDP-11?f  G > Since Compaq never shouted VMS from the rooftops, the HP folks likelye  > didn't hear too much about VMS( > leading up to the close of the merger.   -- microsoft free by 2003   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 17 May 2002 21:41:42 -0400 2 From: rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger)A Subject: Re: Comments on ITUG/DECUS joint Euro conference in LyonbK Message-ID: <rdeininger-1705022141430001@1cust196.tnt3.nashua.nh.da.uu.net>i  < In article <3CE5ACCF.B2674DD4@nospam.net>, no.replies wrote:  . >I'm sorry, I just can't let this slide by ... >fE >It's not like HP didn't "know" about OpenVMS prior to the merger: HPnK >& DEC went mano-a-mano in the mini-computer market for almost [1] 20 yearsyG >(circa 80 - 95). They marketed MPE as a VMS competitor in a variety ofoD >hardware configurations. I refuse to believe that like Moses in theD >bulrushes, HPQ "found" OpenVMS and doesn't know the history of thatL >foundling. To credit their statements to "market ignorance" buys into their >disengenuous behavior.u  A I don't think HP had a clear picture of the VMS user base, or VMS I financials, before the merger.  I don't think the top brass at Compaq had F a clear picture.  I think the financials at Compaq were muddled beyondH recognition in some ways. Nothing would make VMS immune to this disease.  I A weekor two isn't enough time to fix this.  HP will need time to sort itrI out.  I'm not surprised that HP was somewhat subdued about VMS in the daysI 1 statements.  They probably didn't totally trust the information when ite came to details.  D I agree, in a general sense, HP knew about VMS.  The engineers at HPB probably have considerable collective experience with VMS, both asE users/developers and as competitors.  None of that knowledge would be D particularly useful to _business_ managers trying to make _business_G decisions.  20 years of history doesn't help much in making choices for1! the next month, quarter, or year.r  I HP could not have known more about the business side of the VMS operationxI than Compaq knew.  Did Compaq give you the impression they understood thep
 VMS business?n  J Enough good news about VMS, as a business, made it to the integration teamI that VMS won a place in the new HP lineup, and HP adopted Compaq's entiretE VMS and alphaserver roadmap without cutting anything away.  ObviouslynH Compaq chopped pretty hard on alpha last year, but HP could have chopped even more.  They didn't.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 17 May 2002 22:58:31 -0400i- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>aA Subject: Re: Comments on ITUG/DECUS joint Euro conference in Lyont, Message-ID: <3CE5C352.A2795FB7@videotron.ca>   Robert Deininger wrote: C > I don't think HP had a clear picture of the VMS user base, or VMSaK > financials, before the merger.  I don't think the top brass at Compaq had7 > a clear picture.    L You are nave my friend. When Compaq's top brass seriously discussed killingN VMS in june 2000, they had the full picture of the VMS profits, revenus, costsI etc, and it was the argument that killing VMS would result in most of thewN customers leaving Compaq and hence bleed Compaq of a serious source of profitsN that made Compaq give VMS a second chance, and henc he short lived Renaissance- to stabilise the then negative growth of VMS.c  K And the very fact that the top brass made damned sure that the public neveroJ saw how profitable VMS was and how unprofitable wintel sertvers were is anR indication that the top brass were very aware of what was giving them the profits.  M If that Stallard critter met with Marcello for even 10 minutes, he would haveo been fully aware of this.n  K Secondly, during due diligence, HP would have seen Compaq totally naked and2M seen what organ produced the profits. If they had time to have new "HP" signstP manufactured and installed on day 1, then they had time to study the financials.  K Now, *IF* nobody from VMS was involved in the integration teams, then thereeM would have been nobody to defend VMS. And it would also mean that both HP andlM Compaq were satisfied of not having any VMS representation in the integration2 team.   K > A weekor two isn't enough time to fix this.  HP will need time to sort ittK > out.  I'm not surprised that HP was somewhat subdued about VMS in the day K > 1 statements.  They probably didn't totally trust the information when ith > came to details.  K They had 8 months to do this. How come they would have been unaware of somet0 huge gaping mistakes in the strategy documents ?    F > I agree, in a general sense, HP knew about VMS.  The engineers at HPD > probably have considerable collective experience with VMS, both as' > users/developers and as competitors.    K How much of the HP that competed againt Digital is left at HP ? Seems to mebL that Carly succesfully transformed that once reputable company into a wintelJ and printer business. I don't think that Carly was very interested in true enterprise systems.e  K > HP could not have known more about the business side of the VMS operationtK > than Compaq knew.  Did Compaq give you the impression they understood thep > VMS business?e  J They understood enough of it to cancel their plans to kill VMS. You assumeN that Compaq was clueless about VMS. I assume that they knew exactly where theyJ were going with VMS, it is just that I disagree with their direction. Same@ applies to HP. They know exactly where they want to go with VMS.   ------------------------------   Date: 18 May 2002 03:15:52 GMT2 From: "Zane H. Healy" <healyzh@shell1.aracnet.com>3 Subject: Re: DECUS Lyon: Another VMS summary (long) , Message-ID: <ac4h1801ij2@enews1.newsguy.com>  . Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@free.fr> wrote:? > About VAX no, but Mark did say that HP still supports PDPs...l  K Really?  That's interesting.  I wonder what that support consists of, is ituH more than simply pointing the customer at Mentec.  OTOH, I believe thereH might be some government contracts that require them to support the OS's that Mentec doesn't.   			Zanea   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 17 May 2002 22:35:53 +0200c- From: Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@Free.fr> / Subject: DHCP and ADSL: no view from outside???a' Message-ID: <3CE569AA.D22ACAC4@Free.fr>t  N I just installed my ADSL modem and found that DHCP gave me address 192.168.1.2  K Obviously, this is not an Internet IP address, and I cannot either ping norh$ access my WEB server from "outside".   Why? Thanks.t   D. (ASE :-)t --  2   ------------------------------------------------2 MORANDI Consultants  http://Didier.Morandi.Free.fr0   19 chemin de la Butte, 31400 Toulouse, France.2 Tel.: +33 (0)6 7983 6418 - Fax: +33 (0)5 6154 19282 OpenVMS, APPLE, Computer Security, Migration plans1 Visit: http://www.softresint.com/AlphaMigrate.htme2 --------------------------------------------------   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 17 May 2002 22:06:51 GMT-1 From: LESLIE@JRLVAX.HOUSTON.RR.COM (Jerry Leslie) 3 Subject: Re: DHCP and ADSL: no view from outside???h; Message-ID: <%9fF8.96187$Q42.5334989@typhoon.austin.rr.com>u  . Didier Morandi (Didier.Morandi@Free.fr) wrote:= : I just installed my ADSL modem and found that DHCP gave me t : address 192.168.1.2s :   , What make/model of DSL modem do you have ?    B The only one I'm familiar with is the DirecTV "gateway", whose WAN' settings can be accessed via a browser:      http://10.5.1.2/  A which shows what IP address, subnet mask, and DNS servers are for.
 the WAN side.s  E : Obviously, this is not an Internet IP address, and I cannot either a/ : ping nor access my WEB server from "outside".p :  : Why?	 : Thanks.n :   E Some ISPs block access to port 80, to prevent home users from runningtD a web server.  Anyone wanting to run a web server is expected to pay for a higher price service.s  G There are specific newsgroups for DSL, comp.dcom.xdsl, and cable modem,o comp.dcom.modems.cable.e    H --Jerry Leslie   leslie@clio.rice.edu  (my opinions are strictly my own)9   Note: leslie@jrlvax.houston.rr.com is invalid for emaila   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 17 May 2002 22:12:35 GMTs' From: Jeffrey Chimene <jeff@nospam.net>a3 Subject: Re: DHCP and ADSL: no view from outside???u) Message-ID: <3CE5850E.151AB01@nospam.net>y  L It sounds like your ADSL provider has bundled DHCP w/ their service. In someH ways, this is nice: you might be able to add a hub and get more than oneM connection per line. I've usually called the ISP to get the IP address of thebD modem when I've had to connect a router in that type of environment.  P I don't know about ADSL in France, but isn't your upstream data rate going to be too slow to serve web pages?   Didier Morandi wrote:t  P > I just installed my ADSL modem and found that DHCP gave me address 192.168.1.2 >iM > Obviously, this is not an Internet IP address, and I cannot either ping nor & > access my WEB server from "outside". >f > Why?	 > Thanks.o >o
 > D. (ASE :-)o > --4 >   ------------------------------------------------4 > MORANDI Consultants  http://Didier.Morandi.Free.fr2 >   19 chemin de la Butte, 31400 Toulouse, France.4 > Tel.: +33 (0)6 7983 6418 - Fax: +33 (0)5 6154 19284 > OpenVMS, APPLE, Computer Security, Migration plans3 > Visit: http://www.softresint.com/AlphaMigrate.htmt4 > --------------------------------------------------   -- microsoft free by 2003   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 17 May 2002 22:29:34 -0400e- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>r3 Subject: Re: DHCP and ADSL: no view from outside??? , Message-ID: <3CE5BC8C.EB50ED7E@videotron.ca>   Didier Morandi wrote:s > P > I just installed my ADSL modem and found that DHCP gave me address 192.168.1.2  K In north america, many DSL providers don't provide raw TCPIP over their DSL & lines, they provide PPP-over-ethernet.  L This requires special drivers on Windows (or any platform), or a router thatL can handle the PPPoE at one end and true TCPIP on your LAN side. You have to= specify a username/password combination to get the link "up".u  M The address you were given is often set by the DHCP *client* when it receiveseM no answer from any DHCP server. Recent versions of windows/mac don't wait thee% requisite 2 minutes before giving up.h  H I am not entirely familiar with DSL modems, however, some DOCSIS (cable)N modems have a "feature" that is very nasty.  They will only allow packets fromN "n" machines it sees on your lan to flow through to the cable side.  So if youK have 3 vaxes in a cluster without any TCPIP software, the modem will likely.K see the ethernet addresses of those 3 vaxes first, and when the MAC sends aoN DHCP request, the modem won't even bother sending it at the other end, so withK the ISP's DHCP server never getting your request, you never get a response. J The way to test this is to shutdown the modem, disconnect the computer and; modem from your land and connect them directly and test it.r   ------------------------------    Date: 17 May 2002 17:40:43 -0700. From: Jack.Trachtman@vmmc.org (Jack Trachtman) Subject: Diskeeper Usage= Message-ID: <69d784c4.0205171640.1d1e3529@posting.google.com>s  D We have used the Diskeeper defragmentor for years on single node VMS systems with good results.  D I am now looking at using it in a Cluster, and where the application uses Oracle 8i.   C Does anyone have any experience in this usage that they can commentl on?  Thanks4   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 18 May 2002 03:25:50 GMT01 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>  Subject: Re: Diskeeper Usage' Message-ID: <3CE5CD00.D46EA076@fsi.net>s   Jack Trachtman wrote:s > F > We have used the Diskeeper defragmentor for years on single node VMS > systems with good results. > F > I am now looking at using it in a Cluster, and where the application > uses Oracle 8i.: > E > Does anyone have any experience in this usage that they can commentr
 > on?  Thanksa  ? Well, not first hand experience, but my partner at work (*VERY* G knowledgeable) recommends strongly against throwing Oracle *ANY* curvesh? at all! Experience at work to date seems to support his advice.u   --   David J. Dachterap dba DJE Systemso http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/o   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 17 May 2002 18:25:11 GMTr! From: Andy <acs@fcgnet.works.net> 6 Subject: Re: Forced migration to HPHUX - Storm Warning> Message-ID: <Xns92119271A7745acsfcgnetworksnet@216.166.71.232>  6 Bill Gunshannon <bill@cs.uofs.edu> enlightened us with; news:20020517085833.Y14008-100000@server2.cs.scranton.edu: h  - > On Tue, 14 May 2002, Fred Kleinsorge wrote:t >  >> Your results sound atypical.e > ? > Maybe, but I doubt it.  The reality is seldom the same as thes6 > perception, especially when there are strong biases. > 1 >>  It would be interesting to know exactly what A >> your VMS system does, > @ > Oracle, Banner, whatever other applications a University might > use to do business.   f@ Since you've already made it clear that you are just an observerB of this behavior there isn't much anyone can do except sympathize.  : (Or point some sales people for competing products in your?  general direction (Though if your school is running SCT Bannert@  I'd be surprised if someone from SCT hasn't suggested switchingC  away from VMS to a more "stable" OS/hardware platform already.... iB unless someone figures the $$$ for doing that is more than the $$$ for the down-time.))    A It IS possible to successfully use VMS in an academic environmenti? for administrative purposes on the miniscule IT budget a lot ofp schools have for such things.    -Andy- --     ------------------------------    Date: 17 May 2002 17:16:01 -0700' From: andrewlopz2000@yahoo.com (andrew)r Subject: hello vitriaR= Message-ID: <e321100b.0205171616.7a8b4585@posting.google.com>g   hi> Techie Vitria User Group, a part of the Techieindex.com, is an@ enterprise portal aimed at supporting the technical needs of the> Vitria developer community. The User Group enables them to get@ information on Vitria tools and technology from a single source.D Features include discussion forums, job center, news and information> section, Consultant center, Vitria 100 , Vitria Mall and more.C Techieindex.com is in no way related to nor endorsed by Vitria Inc.e     do visit  ! http://www.techieindex.com/vitriai     regdsd  
 lopz......   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 17 May 2002 14:44:11 -0400e! From: Jim Agnew <jpagnew@vcu.edu>t= Subject: Re: Hey, anyone notice that Netscape is different??? ' Message-ID: <3CE54F7B.3D486FA6@vcu.edu>a  @ Myself and our University Staff have found that this url has the
 solution::  4 http://help.netscape.com/kb/consumer/19981014-6.html  E your mileage may vary...  ;-)  It does work Univ. Staff if you followy@ the directions COMPLETELY..  and this is straight from Netscape.   Jim Agnew wrote: > G > it spins off a browser window when you first fire it up in messenger?y > this is new, and unwanted..  > 4 > of course, I'd left autoupdates active...  blah... >  > it's off now.. >  > jimo   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 18 May 2002 03:18:02 GMTn1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> = Subject: Re: Hey, anyone notice that Netscape is different???k' Message-ID: <3CE5CB2C.72112B81@fsi.net>    Jim Agnew wrote: > B > Myself and our University Staff have found that this url has the > solution:: > 6 > http://help.netscape.com/kb/consumer/19981014-6.html > G > your mileage may vary...  ;-)  It does work Univ. Staff if you followCB > the directions COMPLETELY..  and this is straight from Netscape.  E Well, to me, the problem is not that the content appears, but that it D now appears in a new browser window. Is there any way to get the old behavior back?   -- 5 David J. DachteraE dba DJE Systemst http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/H   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 17 May 2002 22:16:52 GMTr- From: goathunter@goatley.com (Hunter Goatley)s$ Subject: Re: HGFTP non-standard port1 Message-ID: <3ce58108.119447907@news.process.com>   D On 16 May 2002 09:03:50 -0700, issinoho@slayme.com (issinoho) wrote:   >All (Hunter?) >VB >How do I run the HGFTP server on a port that is NOT 21, I seem toG >recall you mentioning this was possible but can't find it in the docs.b >0, You define the logical HG_FTP_LISTENER_PORT:  1   $ define/system/exec HG_FTP_LISTENER_PORT 21000n  @ and then start HGFTP.  You can then connect with FTP/PORT=21000.   Hunter ------9 Hunter Goatley, Process Software, http://www.process.com/t8 goathunter@goatley.com    http://www.goatley.com/hunter/< New Robert R. McCammon site: http://www.RobertRMcCammon.com/   ------------------------------    Date: 17 May 2002 17:05:37 -0700( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)$ Subject: HP commits to VMS again ...= Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0205171605.1031b2a3@posting.google.com>P  2 for disbelievers like J.F. out there, this is from supercomputingonline= where 2 HP reps confirm we can use vms as long as we want ...M   SCO: How about OpenVMS?   E RABE: OpenVMS is going to continue on pretty much under HP just as itbE has under Compaq and to some extent was the same under Digital beforerF that. It's a very, very capable operating system that has an extremelyD large base of customers who are very loyal and don't want to move toF anything else and we're going to support them until they don't want toA use it anymore. And we're going to do that on Alpha now, and it'st= going to be moved to the Itanium product family platforms and C customers will be able to use OpenVMS for just as long as they want  to.t   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 18 May 2002 00:57:01 GMTe' From: Jeffrey Chimene <jeff@nospam.net>s( Subject: Re: HP commits to VMS again ...* Message-ID: <3CE5A6F9.41567B97@nospam.net>  $ I don't know why I'm bothering but -   Bob:  H Most of us don't doubt that OpenVMS will exist and be actively supported long [1] after the merger.  H What we actively dislike is that their public statements don't encompass (!) New Users.  @ HPQ isn't mentioning Sales and Marketing and OpenVMS in the same breath.   Some would infer thatpG "an extremely large base of customers." means a continued investment inr OpenVMS S&M [2]. I would agree,uD pointing out that that statement *and its context* implies No Market Expansion [3].  F If "It's a very, very capable operating system" then why treat it like "The Idiot Bastard Son"?     Regards &c.a     -------------- [1]o     MHO is at least until 2010   [2]tC     Encouraging your existing customer base to continue subscribing- (marketing) / buy up (sales)   [3]2C     AFAIK, HPQ has made no statements that refute this implication.j   Bob Ceculski wrote:U  4 > for disbelievers like J.F. out there, this is from > supercomputingonline? > where 2 HP reps confirm we can use vms as long as we want ...p >u > SCO: How about OpenVMS?  >aG > RABE: OpenVMS is going to continue on pretty much under HP just as it G > has under Compaq and to some extent was the same under Digital beforebH > that. It's a very, very capable operating system that has an extremelyF > large base of customers who are very loyal and don't want to move toH > anything else and we're going to support them until they don't want toC > use it anymore. And we're going to do that on Alpha now, and it'sv? > going to be moved to the Itanium product family platforms andaE > customers will be able to use OpenVMS for just as long as they wantt > to.s   -- microsoft free by 2003   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 17 May 2002 22:37:06 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>v( Subject: Re: HP commits to VMS again ..., Message-ID: <3CE5BE4F.4C7CCD3B@videotron.ca>   Bob Ceculski wrote:s > 4 > for disbelievers like J.F. out there, this is from > supercomputingonline? > where 2 HP reps confirm we can use vms as long as we want ...c >  > SCO: How about OpenVMS?e > G > RABE: OpenVMS is going to continue on pretty much under HP just as itt > has under Compaq n  3 Status quo with no marketing means negative growth.     H > anything else and we're going to support them until they don't want to > use it anymore.   D "you can continue to use VMS" doesn't mean a commitment to grow VMS,K commitment to continue to develop VMS, commitment to market and expand VMS, = commitment to attract new ISVs, new applications etc etc etc.H  N In other words, so far, all HP has been able to say is that they will continue. the very same Compaq policies of ignoring VMS.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 17 May 2002 14:24:00 -0400 3 From: John McLachlan <jmclachlan@nospam.draper.com>y1 Subject: Re: internet address on a Decserver 90TL > Message-ID: <jmclachlan-3EDBAC.14235917052002@news.draper.com>  L > So, this is the system chosen to be replaced.  Is your company publically L > traded.  I don't think I want to hold any of their stock.  Bad management.  L Actually, good management.    Back inthe days, VMS software was exhorbantly N expensive (dunno how it is now).   The 3rd part tools we used were upwards of O $50K for just a compiler.   The same tools for a PC are 2-3K.  So it's hard to oN justify the expense.    Besides, a lot of the 3rd party tools just gave up on I VMS, so we can't even get new versions any more, so our hands are tied...c   -- r- <<remove  nospam for correct e-mail replies>>    John McLachlan Draper Laboratoryy Cambridge, MA 02139-3563 jmclachlan@draper.com " http://www.ccs.neu.edu/home/johnmc   ------------------------------  + Date: Fri, 17 May 2002 21:59:39 +0000 (UTC) 5 From: "Bill Sticker" <NOSPAMPLEASE@SPAMSTOPPER.CO.UK>3Y Subject: Re: Let go of VMS for the good of your career? (was "Re: System manager  availabo1 Message-ID: <ac3ugb$bu5$1@knossos.btinternet.com>e   What an optimist eh?  : "Didier Morandi" <Didier.Morandi@Free.fr> wrote in message! news:3CE56788.5DC474AC@Free.fr...o > Atlant Schmidt wrote:T > >  > ../..n; > > What do you think? Stay with VMS? Or let it go and move @ > > on, if only for the sake of the Salary Continuation Program? > K > To answer your question, I am 51, I do VMS since 1982 (and RSX before), Ie am an'G > OpenVMS Accredited Software Engineer since four days (thanks to DECUS2 Europe),J > and I do not like UNIX (but you said "no war", so let's pass this topic) but IvK > have some knowledge of DECnet, TCP/IP, Fortran IV and 77, Basic +2, Cobola (DCL, 1 > you know that), Rdb, ACMS, and Apple Hypercard.1 >1F > What do you want me to do? Write my life? Continue to post ads in IT
 newspapersK > as an available "VMS expert" and find Cobol programming missions in Paris  for-J > $400 a day? No, thank you. I prefer to continue my personal training and findH > missions where someone with experience and knowledge of an "old" OS is	 requested = > for $1000 a day (there are no such, but one never knows :-)t >M > Didier A.S.E.i > --4 >   ------------------------------------------------4 > MORANDI Consultants  http://Didier.Morandi.Free.fr2 >   19 chemin de la Butte, 31400 Toulouse, France.4 > Tel.: +33 (0)6 7983 6418 - Fax: +33 (0)5 6154 19284 > OpenVMS, APPLE, Computer Security, Migration plans3 > Visit: http://www.softresint.com/AlphaMigrate.htma4 > --------------------------------------------------   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 17 May 2002 22:19:11 +0200 - From: Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@Free.fr>fY Subject: Re: Let go of VMS for the good of your career? (was "Re: System manager available' Message-ID: <3CE565BF.278F30F8@Free.fr>s   Atlant Schmidt wrote:/ ../..c > 9 > What do you think? Stay with VMS? Or let it go and move > > on, if only for the sake of the Salary Continuation Program? >  > Atlant > 9 > (Full disclosure: I made this move about two years ago, 1 > moving from Compaq's VMS Engineering group to at > Solaris-based OEM.)o  P Stanley Rabinowicz (a genious programmer, author of the midnite hack WHAT and ofP the famous text "A Day in the Life of the Image Activator", that you can find onN a VMS Freeware CD) left DEC - where he did dramatic engineering and role gamesO and mathematics problems ("pinboarded" on one of his cube wall for challengers)oP and other wonderful things - when his manager started to ask him to work between4 around 9am and 18pm and also write a monthly report.  , This is another reason to leave an employer.   D. -- t2   ------------------------------------------------2 MORANDI Consultants  http://Didier.Morandi.Free.fr0   19 chemin de la Butte, 31400 Toulouse, France.2 Tel.: +33 (0)6 7983 6418 - Fax: +33 (0)5 6154 19282 OpenVMS, APPLE, Computer Security, Migration plans1 Visit: http://www.softresint.com/AlphaMigrate.htmo2 --------------------------------------------------   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 17 May 2002 22:26:47 +0200 - From: Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@Free.fr>nY Subject: Re: Let go of VMS for the good of your career? (was "Re: System manager availabl1' Message-ID: <3CE56788.5DC474AC@Free.fr>n   Atlant Schmidt wrote:o >  ../..n9 > What do you think? Stay with VMS? Or let it go and move > > on, if only for the sake of the Salary Continuation Program?  O To answer your question, I am 51, I do VMS since 1982 (and RSX before), I am an N OpenVMS Accredited Software Engineer since four days (thanks to DECUS Europe),N and I do not like UNIX (but you said "no war", so let's pass this topic) but IO have some knowledge of DECnet, TCP/IP, Fortran IV and 77, Basic +2, Cobol (DCL,-/ you know that), Rdb, ACMS, and Apple Hypercard.0  O What do you want me to do? Write my life? Continue to post ads in IT newspapersmM as an available "VMS expert" and find Cobol programming missions in Paris for M $400 a day? No, thank you. I prefer to continue my personal training and findiP missions where someone with experience and knowledge of an "old" OS is requested; for $1000 a day (there are no such, but one never knows :-)o  
 Didier A.S.E.e -- i2   ------------------------------------------------2 MORANDI Consultants  http://Didier.Morandi.Free.fr0   19 chemin de la Butte, 31400 Toulouse, France.2 Tel.: +33 (0)6 7983 6418 - Fax: +33 (0)5 6154 19282 OpenVMS, APPLE, Computer Security, Migration plans1 Visit: http://www.softresint.com/AlphaMigrate.htme2 --------------------------------------------------   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 17 May 2002 15:51:17 -0500s1 From: "Dave Gudewicz" <david.gudewicz@abbott.com>lY Subject: Re: Message to Scott Stallard (Was: Re: Forced migration to HPHUX -  Storm Warnie1 Message-ID: <ac3qld$3tk$1@fizban.pprd.abbott.com>a  < I sent Mr. Stallard a VMS and hp week 2 email earlier today.  F I mentioned that hp acquired a jewel in the merger.  The jewel's name: OpenVMSl  L There are other jewels I know.  This one deserves a look.  We believe you'llH like the way it sparkles.  I was speaking on behalf of the VMS sites andK people I'm aware of in the Chicagoland area, being connected with DECUS/nowp Encompass for many years.s  # His reply, received this afternoon:h  H Thanks and I agree...... I really look forward to meeting you in person.   Scott-   ****************  L Might I suggest once again that others here that really care to keep the VMSD flame burning write to Mr. Stallard with their views on the subject.   -- Dave....  ) Adam and Eve had many advantages, but thef- principle one was that they escaped teething.  -----Mark Twain.  < "Dave Gudewicz" <david.gudewicz@abbott.com> wrote in message+ news:ac2vrp$spk$1@fizban.pprd.abbott.com...eJ > Once again, write Mr. Stallard and ask him the question mentioned below. It$ > will not get answered by him here. > F >     first.last@hp.com     <----  I know this works in his case, I've > actually used it.r >a > --	 > Dave...3 >C+ > Adam and Eve had many advantages, but thee/ > principle one was that they escaped teething.  > -----Mark Twain  >e< > "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message( > news:3CE4C491.305C657B@videotron.ca...! > > "Bradford J. Hamilton" wrote:oF > > > I've asked my manager to see if Scott Stallard is attending that > meeting, andJ > > > if Scott is there, then my manager will ask him for clarification of hisc	 > remarksoH > > > on OVMS, and to impress upon Mr. Stallard the importance that OVMS > customers ( > > > place upon HP's continued support. > >p" > > I would ask that Stallard guy: > >/D > > -what was your intention in saying that HP expected VMS users to > eventually > > migrate to HP-UX ? > >  > > depending on answer: > >1I > > -in deciding the fate of a multi-billion dollar product, how come youo wereL > > unaware that such a statement would trigger extremely negative reactions > fromG > > customers, considering you had 8 months to prepare such statement ?. >0 >1   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 17 May 2002 18:11:16 GMTe# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>tY Subject: Re: Message to Scott Stallard (Was: Re: Forced migration to HPHUX - Storm WarninnG Message-ID: <8JbF8.39952$t8_.2527@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>n  I Could you ask you boss to ask a few direct questions on behalf of all thetD 'little people' who still make up the bulk of the VMS customer base?  C Please make sure to ask your boss to ask these questions when othertI customers are in the room and they can hear the questions and answers (to L paraphrase Terry Shannon said a few weeks ago, "Trust. And have witnesses.")  J Q1: Does HP plan to begin marketing and advertising OpenVMS to existing HP unix customers?i  J Q2: Does HP plan to begin marketing and advertising OpenVMS to non-HP unix
 customers?  K Q3: Does HP plan to beging marketing and advertising OpenVMS to existing HP 4 Windows NT/2000/XP Server/Advanced Server customers?  F Q4: Does HP plan to beging marketing and advertising OpenVMS to non-HP4 Windows NT/2000/XP Server/Advanced Server customers?  J Q5: If the answers to any of questions 1-4 above is 'NO', they why is that8 the case? A detailed response is required for each 'No'.  I Q6: Can HP quantify (dollars & cents) the budget for each of the customereK categories in questions 1-4 above? Over what time period will this money bei spent promoting VMS?  F Q7: What forms will the marketing and promotion of VMS to the customerH categories mention above take? eg. Print/TV advertising? prominent tradeL show presence? OpenVMS World Trade Center (to be constructed in NYC)? etc...  K Q8: When can we expect to hear an unequivocal public statement from Carly'ssI lips that VMS will continue to be developed ad infinitum; that it will bewD aggressively marketed both within and externally to HP; that HP willG actively and aggressively stimulate new demand for OpenVMS with all neweD customers; that HP will immediately introduce a no-cost, no-nonsenseL academic use license to stimulate OpenVMS use at educational institutions by teaching staff and students?  I Without direct, non-oblique answers to questions like these (and I'm sure-I that others have questions of their own), we are still left in a state oflJ limbo, somewhat like a non-married couple living together, each professingH love and one wanting desperately to get married but the other has a real commitment problem.    Thanks for anything you can do.         @ "Bradford J. Hamilton" <sy18889@rabbit.fmr.com> wrote in message( news:b%7F8.2$xB2.45@news-srv1.fmr.com...K > Typically, "large" VMS customers, by invitation from COMPAQ (the new HP).. ThemJ > council provides access to high-level COMPAQ (part of the new HP) execs. >sJ > Don't know who will be there; I just asked my manager to keep an eye out foriG > Mr. Stallard, if he attends.  Typically, execs at the Gorham/Marcello/
 level have > attended in the past.1 >.G > I understand that Mr. Stallard did not attend the recent symposium inu	 Lyon, but  > sent a video message.. >a? > In article <9059bf6b.0205170532.3a1da1a9@posting.google.com>, / jodonnell@hrblock.com (Jason O'Donnell) writes:pA > >sy18889@rabbit.fmr.com (Bradford J. Hamilton) wrote in messagea* news:<sfAE8.1$xB2.85@news-srv1.fmr.com>...D > >> Here's an alternative - for those of you whose managers will be
 attending thepC > >> OVMS Executive Council meeting in Palm Beach later this month:e > >,G > >Having my nose to the keyboard, what is this coucil meeting?  Who iss6 > >invited?  Who from the NEW HP is going to be there? >0 > Bradford J. Hamilton' > braMdhamAilPtoSn@aMtAtPbi.cSom (home)i' > sMy1A88P89S@rabMbit.fAmPr.coSm (work)A >(= > "All opinions that I express are my own, not my employer's"N > "Lose the MAPS"r   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 17 May 2002 18:49:37 GMT03 From: sy18889@rabbit.fmr.com (Bradford J. Hamilton) Y Subject: Re: Message to Scott Stallard (Was: Re: Forced migration to HPHUX - Storm Warninc. Message-ID: <5hcF8.3$xB2.63@news-srv1.fmr.com>  N My manager has been preparing for the Council meeting (1st week in June, BTW -& sorry for the previous mis-statement).  O He has had concerns which have closely matched the issues expressed here in the-M NG (lack of visibility, marketing, and advertising for VMS), and wants to see 2 strong support statements for VMS from the new HP.  M He has been outspoken in previous Exec Council events (he even won an "award"tN as the "Most Outspken Customer" shortly after COMPAQ bought Digital).  He willN deliver a message to those who are there; there is, of course, no guarantee ofC what actions/reactions will result from his (and others') concerns.d  m In article <8JbF8.39952$t8_.2527@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>, "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> writes:eJ >Could you ask you boss to ask a few direct questions on behalf of all theE >'little people' who still make up the bulk of the VMS customer base?  > D >Please make sure to ask your boss to ask these questions when otherJ >customers are in the room and they can hear the questions and answers (toM >paraphrase Terry Shannon said a few weeks ago, "Trust. And have witnesses.")- >-K >Q1: Does HP plan to begin marketing and advertising OpenVMS to existing HPf >unix customers? >cK >Q2: Does HP plan to begin marketing and advertising OpenVMS to non-HP unix> >customers?n >wL >Q3: Does HP plan to beging marketing and advertising OpenVMS to existing HP5 >Windows NT/2000/XP Server/Advanced Server customers?. > G >Q4: Does HP plan to beging marketing and advertising OpenVMS to non-HP 5 >Windows NT/2000/XP Server/Advanced Server customers?i >aK >Q5: If the answers to any of questions 1-4 above is 'NO', they why is that 9 >the case? A detailed response is required for each 'No'.M >&J >Q6: Can HP quantify (dollars & cents) the budget for each of the customerL >categories in questions 1-4 above? Over what time period will this money be >spent promoting VMS?  >eG >Q7: What forms will the marketing and promotion of VMS to the customer I >categories mention above take? eg. Print/TV advertising? prominent traderM >show presence? OpenVMS World Trade Center (to be constructed in NYC)? etc..., >QL >Q8: When can we expect to hear an unequivocal public statement from Carly'sJ >lips that VMS will continue to be developed ad infinitum; that it will beE >aggressively marketed both within and externally to HP; that HP will H >actively and aggressively stimulate new demand for OpenVMS with all newE >customers; that HP will immediately introduce a no-cost, no-nonsensenM >academic use license to stimulate OpenVMS use at educational institutions byn >teaching staff and students?  >aJ >Without direct, non-oblique answers to questions like these (and I'm sureJ >that others have questions of their own), we are still left in a state ofK >limbo, somewhat like a non-married couple living together, each professingeI >love and one wanting desperately to get married but the other has a real  >commitment problem. >o  >Thanks for anything you can do. >s >  >e > A >"Bradford J. Hamilton" <sy18889@rabbit.fmr.com> wrote in message:) >news:b%7F8.2$xB2.45@news-srv1.fmr.com...oL >> Typically, "large" VMS customers, by invitation from COMPAQ (the new HP). >TheK >> council provides access to high-level COMPAQ (part of the new HP) execs.. >>K >> Don't know who will be there; I just asked my manager to keep an eye outn >forH >> Mr. Stallard, if he attends.  Typically, execs at the Gorham/Marcello >level haveg >> attended in the past. >>H >> I understand that Mr. Stallard did not attend the recent symposium in
 >Lyon, but >> sent a video message. >>@ >> In article <9059bf6b.0205170532.3a1da1a9@posting.google.com>,0 >jodonnell@hrblock.com (Jason O'Donnell) writes:B >> >sy18889@rabbit.fmr.com (Bradford J. Hamilton) wrote in message+ >news:<sfAE8.1$xB2.85@news-srv1.fmr.com>... E >> >> Here's an alternative - for those of you whose managers will beh >attending theD >> >> OVMS Executive Council meeting in Palm Beach later this month: >> >H >> >Having my nose to the keyboard, what is this coucil meeting?  Who is7 >> >invited?  Who from the NEW HP is going to be there?l >> >> Bradford J. Hamiltonu( >> braMdhamAilPtoSn@aMtAtPbi.cSom (home)( >> sMy1A88P89S@rabMbit.fAmPr.coSm (work) >>> >> "All opinions that I express are my own, not my employer's" >> "Lose the MAPS" >m >y Bradford J. Hamilton& braMdhamAilPtoSn@aMtAtPbi.cSom		(home)& sMy1A88P89S@rabMbit.fAmPr.coSm		(work)  ; "All opinions that I express are my own, not my employer's"n "Lose the MAPS"d   ------------------------------    Date: 17 May 2002 13:27:15 -0600+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young)aM Subject: Re: Most unusual resident in a system ?, was: Re: No new Alpha sales 3 Message-ID: <aVlqdnvrw6bF@eisner.encompasserve.org>e   In article <ac3gbv$cri$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <andrew_nospam.harrison_remove_this@sun#.com> writes: >  >  > Rob Young wrote: > { >> In article <jECB9F4YndB0@eisner.encompasserve.org>, clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP (Simon Clubley) writes:: >>  r >>>In article <9tYD8.89584$GLp1.20086@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>, "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> writes: >>>eK >>>>You forgot the bit about cleaning out the 'dust bunnies' from the powernO >>>>supplies, and if in Australia, the odd python that finds large server boxes # >>>>nice warm places to curl up in.4 >>>> >>>>" >>>A python ? Is this verifiable ? >>>.J >>>So what is the most unusual resident or object ever found in a system ? >>>  >>>h >> eB >> 	I once popped open a Solaris box and wasn't a bit surprised toH >> 	find a whole troupe of extremely tired and ragged looking squirrels  >> 	"a huffin' and a puffin'." >> a >  >  > RobE > 9 > Why not join Kerry, Freddy etc in a search for examples,6 > that support the thesis your are advancing with this7 > apparent attempt at a joke, namely Compaq Alpha boxes  > fast, Sun SPARC boxes slow.A > 9 > Come up with some examples, don't use SPECint or SPECfpi; > particularly now that the Turkey that voted for Christmasv8 > AKA Freddy let the cat out of the bag by claiming that: > optimisations for SPECfp were unlikely to be usefull for > user code. >   E 	I won't jab at that windmill Andrew.  Give it time.  Folks do indeedeB 	wait and anticipate well engineered high-end kit, whether storageE 	or servers.  The AlphaServer 4100 was such a resounding succes, they-C 	sold many before FRS.  I am sure Sun has done the same.  Likewise,iB 	Compaq/HP is selling a ton of the HSV (Enterprise Virtual Array).  ( 	Folks, check out this Register article:  2 http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/53/25321.html  @ 	Good overview of direction.  And Mr. Elias tells us out of band( 	virtualization is the winner!   Hooray!  6 > A the moment the only tired ragged looking squirrels1 > around here are the varmits that Compaq ship ini > AlphaServers.F  > 	Forgot to mention... the funniest part was the squirrels wereA 	wearing tiny little sunglasses.  No doubt to shield their tenderF9 	eyes from the reflection coming off their Zinc Whiskers.o   				Roba   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 17 May 2002 18:50:38 +0100yU From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <andrew_nospam.harrison_remove_this@sun#.com>oM Subject: Re: Most unusual resident in a system ?, was: Re: No new Alpha salese0 Message-ID: <ac3gbv$cri$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   Rob Young wrote:  z > In article <jECB9F4YndB0@eisner.encompasserve.org>, clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP (Simon Clubley) writes: > q >>In article <9tYD8.89584$GLp1.20086@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>, "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> writes:a >>J >>>You forgot the bit about cleaning out the 'dust bunnies' from the powerN >>>supplies, and if in Australia, the odd python that finds large server boxes" >>>nice warm places to curl up in. >>>e >>> ! >>A python ? Is this verifiable ?- >>I >>So what is the most unusual resident or object ever found in a system ?  >> >> > A > 	I once popped open a Solaris box and wasn't a bit surprised to G > 	find a whole troupe of extremely tired and ragged looking squirrels i > 	"a huffin' and a puffin'."A >      Robt  7 Why not join Kerry, Freddy etc in a search for examples-4 that support the thesis your are advancing with this5 apparent attempt at a joke, namely Compaq Alpha boxesF fast, Sun SPARC boxes slow.   7 Come up with some examples, don't use SPECint or SPECfpr9 particularly now that the Turkey that voted for Christmasa6 AKA Freddy let the cat out of the bag by claiming that8 optimisations for SPECfp were unlikely to be usefull for
 user code.  4 A the moment the only tired ragged looking squirrels/ around here are the varmits that Compaq ship in 
 AlphaServers.   0 Still its good that you mentioned tired, without0 supporting data which you seem unable to provide1 the SPARC slow Alpha fast claim is best describeda3 as tired. I would suggest dropping it if you cannot7 support it with examples.o    3 Let me know when you have some good ones and we can    review them for spin.m   Regardst Andrew Harrisoni   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 17 May 2002 20:16:28 GMT * From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>M Subject: Re: Most unusual resident in a system ?, was: Re: No new Alpha salesoA Message-ID: <wydF8.27368$e66.2463506@bin6.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>1  8 "Rob Young" <young_r@encompasserve.org> wrote in message- news:aVlqdnvrw6bF@eisner.encompasserve.org...-   ...-  ) > Folks, check out this Register article:i >r4 > http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/53/25321.html >,A > Good overview of direction.  And Mr. Elias tells us out of bandM) > virtualization is the winner!   Hooray!s  G But hardly surprising, given even a modicum of a clue about how storage- works.  I In-band virtualization was an early stopgap:  faster to market because no0C host-local intelligence was required.  Unfortunately, the VersaStorlD approach, while better, is also a stopgap (definite scaling limits).  K Where is the next advance going to come from in cHumPaq?  It was definitely L not a good sign when Richie left Compaq storage, and HP's storage R&D (whichF *did* come up with some very respectable innovations) has been savagedH recently (just as *all* real Compaq R&D was last year by Robison and his Russian henchman).   - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 17 May 2002 23:01:59 +0200a0 From: Hans Magnus Aus <aus@vim.uni-wuerzburg.de>0 Subject: Newest version of DCPS and our problem.B Message-ID: <aus-92BCBE.23015917052002@wrzx08.rz.uni-wuerzburg.de>  E What is the newest version of DCPS ? We currently use DCPS 1.8, OVMS e= 7.2-1, TCPIP 5.1 and our own home brew   HP4050$DEVCTL plus   ' "ip_rawtcp/n.n.n.n:9100" on the hp4100.v  C We're sporadically plagued by hung DCPS queues which look like the s listing below.  H 1) Could the problem be that the DCPS queue is told that the printer is I busy with a job from another PC and never gets a signal that the printer p
 is available?.  + 2) Does the newest DCPS solve this problem?m   $show queue:D  Printer queue HP4100_1, busy, on V99::"ip_rawtcp/141.27.96.6:9100",+   mounted form DCPS$DEFAULT (stock=DEFAULT)i  4   Entry  Jobname         Username     Blocks  Status4   -----  -------         --------     ------  ------6     707  B2002011184_7   SCHUBERT          4  Printing5     708  B2002011185_7   SCHUBERT          4  Pendingt5     703  B2002011082_7   SCHUBERT          4  Holdingo5     704  B2002011084_7   SCHUBERT          4  Holding'   -- d4 Hans Magnus Aus, Wuerzburg, aus@vim.uni-wuerzburg.de   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 17 May 2002 16:09:23 -0500 1 From: "Dave Gudewicz" <david.gudewicz@abbott.com>a4 Subject: Re: Newest version of DCPS and our problem.1 Message-ID: <ac3rnc$43n$1@fizban.pprd.abbott.com>u  $ Latest version is v2.0.  Details at:/ http://www5.compaq.com/info/SP4415/SP4415PF.PDFa   -- Dave...p  ) Adam and Eve had many advantages, but the - principle one was that they escaped teething.1 -----Mark Twaing  = "Hans Magnus Aus" <aus@vim.uni-wuerzburg.de> wrote in message < news:aus-92BCBE.23015917052002@wrzx08.rz.uni-wuerzburg.de...F > What is the newest version of DCPS ? We currently use DCPS 1.8, OVMS= > 7.2-1, TCPIP 5.1 and our own home brew   HP4050$DEVCTL plus-) > "ip_rawtcp/n.n.n.n:9100" on the hp4100.  >mD > We're sporadically plagued by hung DCPS queues which look like the > listing below. >iI > 1) Could the problem be that the DCPS queue is told that the printer isbJ > busy with a job from another PC and never gets a signal that the printer > is available?a >o- > 2) Does the newest DCPS solve this problem?h >u > $show queue:F >  Printer queue HP4100_1, busy, on V99::"ip_rawtcp/141.27.96.6:9100",- >   mounted form DCPS$DEFAULT (stock=DEFAULT)y >n6 >   Entry  Jobname         Username     Blocks  Status6 >   -----  -------         --------     ------  ------8 >     707  B2002011184_7   SCHUBERT          4  Printing7 >     708  B2002011185_7   SCHUBERT          4  Pendingl7 >     703  B2002011082_7   SCHUBERT          4  Holdingn7 >     704  B2002011084_7   SCHUBERT          4  Holdingd >v > --6 > Hans Magnus Aus, Wuerzburg, aus@vim.uni-wuerzburg.de   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 17 May 2002 21:17:25 GMTr. From: peter@langstoeger.at (Peter LANGSTOEGER)4 Subject: Re: Newest version of DCPS and our problem.3 Message-ID: <FreF8.28079$oG6.263903@news.chello.at>t  u In article <aus-92BCBE.23015917052002@wrzx08.rz.uni-wuerzburg.de>, Hans Magnus Aus <aus@vim.uni-wuerzburg.de> writes:f% >What is the newest version of DCPS ?   & V2.1 is currently in field test (G2.1)  > btw: COMP.OS.VMS would be more appropriate for this discussion  H >                                       We currently use DCPS 1.8, OVMS > >7.2-1, TCPIP 5.1 and our own home brew   HP4050$DEVCTL plus  ( >"ip_rawtcp/n.n.n.n:9100" on the hp4100. > D >We're sporadically plagued by hung DCPS queues which look like the  >listing below.  >sI >1) Could the problem be that the DCPS queue is told that the printer is rJ >busy with a job from another PC and never gets a signal that the printer  >is available?   Maybe, but I don't think so.  , >2) Does the newest DCPS solve this problem?   It is worth a try.  B But, I would start with defining the logical DCPS$queue_NO_SYNC...   -- i Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGERa% Network and OpenVMS system specialist- E-mail  peter@langstoeger.atP A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm looking for (a) Network _and_ VMS Job(s)   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 18 May 2002 04:22:25 +0200e0 From: Hans Magnus Aus <aus@vim.uni-wuerzburg.de>4 Subject: Re: Newest version of DCPS and our problem.B Message-ID: <aus-3E9917.04222518052002@wrzx08.rz.uni-wuerzburg.de>  1 We have defines the logical DCPS$queue_NO_SYNC...    -- 74 Hans Magnus Aus, Wuerzburg, aus@vim.uni-wuerzburg.de   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 17 May 2002 18:38:06 +0100rU From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <andrew_nospam.harrison_remove_this@sun#.com>l Subject: Re: No new Alpha salese0 Message-ID: <ac3fkf$cn1$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   Fred Kleinsorge wrote:  8 > Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy wrote in message ... >  > 3 >>Ahh someone has finally hit the nail on the head.e >> >> > 9 > You are mistaking the point on your head for a nail ;-)c >     1 Ahh you are back, funny how you vanished from theo0 SPECfp discussion when you realised that you had let the side down rather badly..  0 Incedentally where are the benchmark results you/ were going to produce that supported your Alpha-1 fast SPARC slow thesis, I would have thought that 0 a couple of weeks was long enough. Can we assume- that you havn't found any and that it was alls just made up ???   Now back to the thread.g     > A >>If a bunch of insiders having a discussion about OpenVMS cannotr@ >>reach a conclusion about HP's intentions for OpenVMS guess how= >>confused the people with the check books being asked to buyI- >>OpenVMS boxes (by these same insiders) are.s >> >> > N > Who are these "insiders" who cannot reach a "conclusion"?  As far as I know,L > the "insiders" do have the same story.  It is disputed by some others, whoM > have their own agendas, and by you - who have no interest in VMS other thanc > to try and spread FUD. >     9 You, Bill, J F etc. I don't mean insiders in the sense ofw< people who work for HP, I mean people who are in the OpenVMS culture rather than outside it.o  : The people who actually make IT strategy for big customers8 and sign the checks are unlikely to be OpenVMS advocates9 or very familiar with OpenVMS, any more than they are Sun ; advocates although they are much more likely to be familiarv	 with Sun.a     > = >>Why do you think that Sun has an program to migrate OpenVMSi >>customers to Solaris >> > M > Because they have so much excess equipment from the dot.bomb (you *are* theaJ > dot in dot.com aren't you?).  Or maybe because the Sun slide in sales isI > pretty dramatic in itself, and you aren't finding many non-Solaris UNIXs  > types that want to trade down. >     E In case you hadn't realised it there is a recesion and the same things applies to Compaq and HP.e  D As for dramatic slides in sales, if the UK is anything to go by thenE thats happening to Alpha and not to Suns. Or did you selectively reade
 that as well.a  D As for the dot in dot com, you remember it our customers remember itC when did Compaq last have a marketing/brand awareness campaign thatr) we can remember for Tru64 or OpenVMS ????m  E As always with your posts you seem incapable of seing the glass house  you reside in.  
 Keep it up   Regards  Andrew Harrison    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 17 May 2002 17:44:16 GMTv# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>Q Subject: Re: No new Alpha salesnH Message-ID: <QjbF8.27067$ah_.23129@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>   Fred,s  L I don't know anyone personally in that situation (then again I'm not the guy' who posted that comment to begin with).e  K But having lived through *many* mergers on the winning side each time I candE tell you that there will be a number of people from both companies inw exactly that position.  J There will be some from the VMS group, depending on how HP plans to marketK (not market VMS to new *non-selected* customers), some from the unix groups/K and storage and PC groups on both sides, and other non-core business groups( and support functions.  K Some of these people will be go-getters who make themselves noticed, in the G belief that being noticed assures them a better chance at keeping theirtB jobs; others will do the same thing but for different reasons - inB jurisdictions where HP operates that have more generous laws aboutE termination payouts, they might just be angling for the big severancee3 package depending upon the number of years service.i  G Some will keep their heads low and their noses to the grindstone in thedK belief that if they aren't noticed then they are safe - again for a variety L of reasons, ie. the job market stinks right now for the most part, they haveH a mortgage, they're incompetent and couldn't get a new job even in a hotI market, or maybe because they are simply low-key folks. There are lots ofh reasons for everyone.   F Bottom line is that as long as the business climate is still tepid andL sales/profits are down, Carly will be the grim reaper to some 15,000+ souls.K I have more faith that Carly will stick to this commitment - as announced -oJ than to any real marketing for VMS (which would insure your job for a very+ long time indeed). Here's hoping I'm wrong.k      @ "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> wrote in message3 news:IQaF8.25$P54.579637@cacnews.cac.cpqcorp.net...t >eC > David J. Dachtera wrote in message <3CE47C6A.666577CB@fsi.net>...d >t > >hJ > >Remember: certain senior VMS management, certain senior VMS Engr. staffJ > >and certain of the others who came over from an already long stint withK > >DEC are in "maintenance" mode themselves: "Don't rock the boat, just letb@ > >us live out the last days of our VMS careers so we can retireI > >comfortably, and the hell with the next generation(s) who would followy > >in our footstepsl >h5 > Can you point me to them, because I don't know any.i >a >B >h >t   ------------------------------    Date: 17 May 2002 14:04:06 -0600+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young)r Subject: Re: No new Alpha salese3 Message-ID: <cRIZ$8cGqMeG@eisner.encompasserve.org>@  q In article <E_aF8.26$B64.607367@cacnews.cac.cpqcorp.net>, "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> writes:y > 8 > Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy wrote in message ... >  >>= >>Why do you think that Sun has an program to migrate OpenVMSm >>customers to Solaris > M > Because they have so much excess equipment from the dot.bomb (you *are* the-J > dot in dot.com aren't you?).  Or maybe because the Sun slide in sales isI > pretty dramatic in itself, and you aren't finding many non-Solaris UNIXa  > types that want to trade down. >    Ouch.  That hurts!  Q http://www.edgar-online.com/bin/edgardoc/finSys_main.asp?dcn=0000891618-02-002345s  S>               Three Months Ended        Nine Months Ended     d               March 31, 2002            April 1, 2001        March 31, 2002       April 1, 2001     ? Net revenues:                                                  >`       Products           $  2,269        $  3,262            $  6,586             $  11,922     `       Services                838             833               2,490                 2,333            `    Total net revenues       3,107           4,095               9,076                14,255           @ Sun goes from a $12 billion dollar YTD in products circa 2001 to/ $6.6 billion YTD 2002 (among other highlights).j   Dot Bomb?  I would say!?  5 Sorta like a Chihuahua nipping at the heels nowadays.a  / But they are of course very sensitive about it.p  1 http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/020514/sftu133_1.html>  $ Tuesday May 14, 8:50 pm Eastern Time
 Press Release  SOURCE: Sun Microsystems, Inc.  H Sun Number One in UNIX With Over Twice the Revenue of Nearest CompetitorN Sun's Leading Marketshare Results for 1Q02 Demonstrate Rapid Customer Adoption& Of UNIX based Sun Fire(TM) Server Line    ? 	Hey Andrew, we know you were/are in marketing.  How's this for  	a tagline:o  < 		Sun Microsystems ... Twice our competitors in revenue, but 		half of what we used to be!o  @ 	Guess that doesn't work!  I'll try to re-work it into something4 	more palatable.  Maybe our friends can help us out.   				Rob    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 17 May 2002 14:53:05 -0500v& From: jlsue <jlsuexxxz@screaminet.com> Subject: Re: No new Alpha salesy8 Message-ID: <uqnaeucdljamfb2vu0ahl5c1706gj7c9uj@4ax.com>  @ Well, Ann Livermore is in a pretty high position.  And, from allD accounts I've seen so far, she is a big VMS fan.  Maybe that'll help things out.t  C In any case, the landscape doesn't change over night and we'll justo) have to wait a bit to see if it pans out.       , On Fri, 17 May 2002 00:08:44 -0400, JF Mezei% <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote:a   >"David J. Dachtera" wrote:lK >> DEC are in "maintenance" mode themselves: "Don't rock the boat, just lete@ >> us live out the last days of our VMS careers so we can retireI >> comfortably, and the hell with the next generation(s) who would follow  >> in our footsteps".- >- >-M >I am affraid that I learned the hard way that you don't get ahead by rockingaM >the boat and causing trouble, unless you were hired specifically to rock thee& >boat and get a company back in shape. > L >I understand Marcello and below for being quiet little sheep who do as theyE >are told and don't cause trouble. Unless they get support from theirm< >superiors, they won't achieve anything by rocking the boat. >tN >But this means that we cannot count on them to fight hard enough for VMS. TheE >fact that that fella Stallard was allowed to release such disgustingtL >statements with regards to VMS is a good indication that Marcello and below  >are totally powerless to fight. > N >In my opinion, the only hope is for DECUS to get its act together and get all+ >worldwide chapters to organise a campaign.t > M >DECUS should have its last opus by at least saving VMS. If VMS goes, so doesoN >DECUS since all other Digital products will be gone. And if DECUS succeeds inL >forcing HP to turn VMS into a succesful OS, then at least DECUS will play a >role inside of Interex.  1 Not speaking for anyone, certainly not DEC/Compaq - (get rid of the xxxz in my address to e-mail)a   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 17 May 2002 14:50:35 -0500u& From: jlsue <jlsuexxxz@screaminet.com> Subject: Re: No new Alpha sales 8 Message-ID: <sfnaeu495mbsf8duj26e7qbu5ehi1eqhg7@4ax.com>  E On Fri, 17 May 2002 12:20:41 +0100, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancyy4 <andrew_nospam.harrison_remove_this@sun#.com> wrote:     >> aK >> Hmmm.  Given the 33% drop in BCSG revenue in Q1, the dominant portion ofhL >> which drop seems to be attributable to an even greater percentage fall inO >> Alpha sales, I'd say that assertion is at best highly questionable (and moreiN >> than likely to continue to be at least as questionable in future quarters).L >> While you may be living in a pleasant little closed world where VMS seems+ >> healthy, Fred, most of the world is not.  >> - >- >-J >The UK market numbers support your view. Alpha revenues are according to H >the latest report down to their lowest share of the market for 3 years C >at 4.6% with unit volumes at an all time low as well. Prior to thebF >HP Compaq initial announcments Alpha had a 11.3% share of the market. >t  E Poor statistical analysis.  Drop in market share can come even during E times of increased sales/revenues/profits.  Drop in market share doescC not mean the business is falling if the market (overall size of the. pie) is getting larger.n  E The drop could mean that the business isn't increasing as fast as theg. overall market, but it could still be growing.  ? NOTE:  I have not read any of the business statements to try to E determine what direction the Alpha business is going.  I'm interestedyE in where Bill gets information that BCSG dropped 33%, and that it wasc due to Alpha sales.r  D In any case, I'll be watching the next couple of quarters to see how things are going.h  1 Not speaking for anyone, certainly not DEC/Compaqw- (get rid of the xxxz in my address to e-mail)i   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 17 May 2002 14:00:08 -0700a' From: David Mathog <mathog@caltech.edu>m Subject: Re: No new Alpha sales-+ Message-ID: <3CE56F58.6873B0F2@caltech.edu>1   Bill Todd wrote:H > HP doesn't have to drop VMS for VMS to die:   people just have to stopC > buying it (as they appear to be doing).  Of course, if sales dropiN > sufficiently (a criterion that could even already have been met, consideringI > the kinds of comments coming out of Carly's level), there's no questioniM > whatsoever that HP (especially under its current management) will choose toP > finish the job.   O Looks that way to me too.  The net result will be a billion or two missing fromhO HP's revenues for next year from lost alpha and related sales.  Maybe the BoardtN will get a clue when that happens - by which time it will probably be much tooO late to do anything but sack Carly and Curly and apologize to the shareholders.,   Regards,   David Mathog mathog@caltech.edu   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 17 May 2002 21:47:27 -0400 ' From: "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@hp.com>  Subject: RE: No new Alpha sales T Message-ID: <BE56C50EA024184DAF48F0B9A47F5CF4026606E0@kaoexc01.americas.cpqcorp.net>   Andrew,H  ? >>> The UK market numbers support your view. Alpha revenues are G according to the latest report down to their lowest share of the market.D for 3 years at 4.6% with unit volumes at an all time low as well.<<< =200< I would be careful about jumping on market share numbers.=20  
 Reference:H http://www.eweek.com/article/0,3658,s=3D1884&a=3D25706,00.asp (April 18, 2002)m  A "Sun Microsystems Inc. suffered a net loss of $37 million for thefB quarter, slightly less than had been projected, as it continued toG struggle from sagging sales of its Unix-based servers and workstations.r "w  E "Sun, which was a leader in selling hardware in the late '90's duringeH the surge in Internet-based companies, saw a large portion of its incomeF disappear when the dot-com bubble burst in 2000. For the first half ofB its fiscal year, Sun's sales plunged 41 percent compared to a year
 earlier. "   Those in glass houses ...r   Regards,  
 Kerry Main Senior Consultanto Hewlett-Packard Canada! Consulting & Integration Services  Voice: 613-592-4660s Fax  :  819-772-7036 Email: Kerry.Main@hp.com     -----Original Message-----' From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy 7 [mailto:andrew_nospam.harrison_remove_this@sun#.com]=20  Sent: May 17, 2002 7:21 AM To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com" Subject: Re: No new Alpha sales          Bill Todd wrote:  E > "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> wrote in message=20t5 > news:gvTE8.41$Mz3.642147@cacnews.cac.cpqcorp.net...- >=20? >>JF Mezei wrote in message <3CE3FA77.B161C845@videotron.ca>...  >> >>>Phillip Helbig wrote: >>>4I >>>>As far as targetting VMS to new customers, well, probably not, but=20 < >>>>this is the same things have been for the last 10 years. >>>> >>>No it isn't.z >>> I >>>Since June 25, VMS has been running on a dying platform.  Those who=20  >>>need2 >>>2 >>the  >>G >>>Alpha high performance generally go Tru64. What Alpha does to VMS isf >>> 	 >>counterb >>G >>>some of the extra overhead that VMS's security and data integrity=20-
 >>>offers. >>>2 >>>r/ >>Sigh.  VMS isn't running on a dying platform.i >> >=20J > Hmmm.  Given the 33% drop in BCSG revenue in Q1, the dominant portion=20I > of which drop seems to be attributable to an even greater percentage=20tB > fall in Alpha sales, I'd say that assertion is at best highly=20E > questionable (and more than likely to continue to be at least as=200C > questionable in future quarters). While you may be living in a=20sH > pleasant little closed world where VMS seems healthy, Fred, most of=20 > the world is not.h >=20    H The UK market numbers support your view. Alpha revenues are according to  I the latest report down to their lowest share of the market for 3 years=20bE at 4.6% with unit volumes at an all time low as well. Prior to the HP?B Compaq initial announcments Alpha had a 11.3% share of the market.    H The whole market is depresed at the moment so its all about retaining orG gaining market share so that you as a vendor are well placed to do wellR6 when the market recovers. Alpha isn't doing well here.  B The number also includes Tru64 and that may have dragged the wholeA number down, but at the moment OpenVMS needs Tru64 to co-fund thec+ development and support of Alpha platforms..  @ The only good news is that Alpha is still 4th in the Market :):)  	 Out of 4.e   Regardso Andrew HarrisonN     > ...  >=20 >=20H >>>What HP just did is raise the bar even higher. Even fewer will now be >>>- > able >=20 >>to >>J >>>convince their management that going VMS even for 3-5 years is worth=20 >>>it. >>>o >>>iG >>HP has done nothing of the sort.  Only the spin being put on it by=20@I >>some unhappy people in this conference looking for anything that can=20  >>be >> > construeds >=20* >>as confirmation that the sky has fallen. >> >=20I > I'm afraid the only spin involved here is the spin you're attempting=20i- > to give to some pretty clear HP statements.  >=20 >=20B >>>Like it or not, HP made certain statements. Live with it. Those >>>w > statements >=20 >>nott >>H >>>only send a clear message to customers, but especially to ISVs: No=20 >>>new >>>  >>Alpha sales. >>J >>No we didn't.  This is a spin to try and apply something intended for=20H >>UNIX to VMS.  And in response to confusion in some things that were=20
 >>said, HP >> > hasg >=20 >>even modified the statements.n >> >=20H > Not in the public HP roadmap, as of a couple of hours ago.  Perhaps=20F > you're confused by the waffling in VMS-specific publications, but=20E > since the statements to the already-converted never have matched=20 = > corporate-wide policy very well this is not too surprising.  >=20 > - bill >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 18 May 2002 03:09:46 GMTe1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>r Subject: Re: OpenVMS SNMP TRAP' Message-ID: <3CE5C93D.8EF76C0A@fsi.net>n   fred818@ameritech.net wrote: > H > I'm not sure what you meant by Stack, I know we are using COMPAQ TCPIP > v5.0a - ECO 3 ..  H That's your IP "stack" then (refers to the visual of the OSI Seven-layer model).e  B Anyway, I believe the most common come back would be to upgrade to5 something more stable, like one of the V5.1's + ECOs.   G I don't know as that would fix your problem, as I still don't know what 2 you're trying to do or how you're trying to do it.   --   David J. Dachterah dba DJE Systemss http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/n   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 17 May 2002 19:33:55 +0000y2 From: John Eisenschmidt <jweisen@eisenschmidt.org>. Subject: Problem Installing JDK 1.3.1 on 7.2-14 Message-ID: <20020517193355.D11540@eisenschmidt.org>   --at6+YcpfzWZg/htY* Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline + Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printablee  L I'm trying to get JDK 1.3.1 from Compaq's OpenVMS on Java page working unde= r 7.2-1 on Alpha.h   The prereqs are:   VMS721_UPDATE=20
 VMS721_LIBRTLp TCPIPALP_E02A50=20 VMS721_PTHREAD-V0300 VMS721_ACRTL- V0300w  
 I am running:t   Update v3.0p Librtl v4.0 
 TCPIPECO v3.0  Pthread v3.0
 Acrtl v3.0  L So it looks like I've met those. I download and installed JAVA131 V1.3-13, =L and followed the post install steps to choose my which JVM I wanted to use.=#  The Java utils seem to be working:Q   $ JAVA -VERSION98 dsa0:[sys0.syscommon.][sysexe]java.exe;1 version "1.1.6"  L I tried to compile a program and I got the error "Unable to initialize thre=L ads: cannot find class java/lang/Thread", which the FAQ says has to do with=/  Stream_LFs, so I did a convert/fdl on my file:   4 TEST.JAVA;1                    File ID:  (5536,10,0)0 Size:           14/35         Owner:    [SYSTEM]" Created:   17-MAY-2002 15:02:42.25& Revised:   17-MAY-2002 15:02:42.30 (1) Expires:   <None specified>o Backup:    <No backup recorded>r Effective: <None specified>e Recording: <None specified>s File organization:  Sequential Shelved state:      Online  Caching attribute:  WritethroughE File attributes:    Allocation: 35, Extend: 0, Global buffer count: 0n9                     No version limit, Contiguous best tryu@ Record format:      Stream_LF, maximum 0 bytes, longest 91 bytes4 Record attributes:  Carriage return carriage control RMS attributes:     None Journaling enabled: None= File protection:    System:RWED, Owner:RWED, Group:RE, World:  Access Cntrl List:  None Client attributes:  None   Total of 1 file, 14/35 blocks.  L And now it looks fine, but I'm getting the same error when I try to compile=K  I've played with the JAVA$CLASSPATH logical, the CLASSPATH logical, I rea=oL d in the FAQ that it could be a JAR file that needs a convert/fdl=3Dstream_=L lf.fdl, but I looked at all the ones under SYS$COMMON:[JAVA$131] and they'r=3 e fine. My program is only importing the following:i   import java.io.*;r import java.text.*;  import java.util.*;e  L The classname inside the source file is mixed case, and I have tried compil=L ing it with quotes around it and proper case. I know I'm missing something = - can anyone point it out?   Thanks,. John   --=20I/ John W. Eisenschmidt <jweisen@eisenschmidt.org>t6  Homepage URL    | http://www.eisenschmidt.org/jweisenL  PGP Public Key  | http://www.eisenschmidt.org/jweisen/misc/jeisenschmidt.a= scD  PGP Fingerprint | 5F9B F916 5AD1 3295 CF99 BC1E 1F97 E6A3 37E3 BEF2  L FOO MANE PADME HUM: "Our first obligation is to keep the FOO counters turni= ng."   --at6+YcpfzWZg/htY' Content-Type: application/pgp-signaturet Content-Disposition: inlinea   -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----l Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (OpenBSD) * Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org  @ iD8DBQE85VsjH5fmozfjvvIRAsC+AKDJ0BLXFs8mvZWzi3IAt5MdoKsEmACgpreZ bqthyEuAqmeP2bVsb7hcJ9M= =x4dAa -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----B   --at6+YcpfzWZg/htY--   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 17 May 2002 20:32:47 +0000p2 From: John Eisenschmidt <jweisen@eisenschmidt.org>2 Subject: Re: Problem Installing JDK 1.3.1 on 7.2-14 Message-ID: <20020517203247.F11540@eisenschmidt.org>   --NQTVMVnDVuULnIzU* Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline + Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable>   That was almost too easy.   L It looks like some of my symbols weren't correct. All the java symbols exce=L pt java and javac were pointing to 1.3.1, but those were pointing to 1.1.6.=-  Very strange. I ended up doing one of these:e  : $ JAVA =3D=3D "MCR SYS$COMMON:[JAVA$131.BIN]JAVA$JAVA.EXE"< $ JAVAC =3D=3D "MCR SYS$COMMON:[JAVA$131.BIN]JAVA$JAVAC.EXE"8 $ JAR =3D=3D "MCR SYS$COMMON:[JAVA$131.BIN]JAVA$JAR.EXE"  L And it seems alright now. I'm going to investigate why those weren't correc= t.   Thanks to everyone who replied,  John  L Unless the Voices are Mistaken, John Eisenschmidt (jweisen@EISENSCHMIDT.ORG= ) Wrote:L > I'm trying to get JDK 1.3.1 from Compaq's OpenVMS on Java page working un= der 7.2-1 on Alpha.$ >=20 > The prereqs are: >=20 > VMS721_UPDATE=20 > VMS721_LIBRTL  > TCPIPALP_E02A50=20 > VMS721_PTHREAD-V0300 > VMS721_ACRTL- V03009 >=20 > I am running:  >=20
 > Update v3.0l
 > Librtl v4.0  > TCPIPECO v3.0  > Pthread v3.0 > Acrtl v3.0 >=20L > So it looks like I've met those. I download and installed JAVA131 V1.3-13=L , and followed the post install steps to choose my which JVM I wanted to us=% e. The Java utils seem to be working:n >=20 > $ JAVA -VERSIONa: > dsa0:[sys0.syscommon.][sysexe]java.exe;1 version "1.1.6" >=20L > I tried to compile a program and I got the error "Unable to initialize th=L reads: cannot find class java/lang/Thread", which the FAQ says has to do wi=1 th Stream_LFs, so I did a convert/fdl on my file:r >=206 > TEST.JAVA;1                    File ID:  (5536,10,0)2 > Size:           14/35         Owner:    [SYSTEM]$ > Created:   17-MAY-2002 15:02:42.25( > Revised:   17-MAY-2002 15:02:42.30 (1) > Expires:   <None specified>s! > Backup:    <No backup recorded>u > Effective: <None specified>t > Recording: <None specified>o  > File organization:  Sequential > Shelved state:      Online" > Caching attribute:  WritethroughG > File attributes:    Allocation: 35, Extend: 0, Global buffer count: 03; >                     No version limit, Contiguous best tryRB > Record format:      Stream_LF, maximum 0 bytes, longest 91 bytes6 > Record attributes:  Carriage return carriage control > RMS attributes:     None > Journaling enabled: None? > File protection:    System:RWED, Owner:RWED, Group:RE, World:s > Access Cntrl List:  None > Client attributes:  None >=20  > Total of 1 file, 14/35 blocks. >=20L > And now it looks fine, but I'm getting the same error when I try to compi=L le I've played with the JAVA$CLASSPATH logical, the CLASSPATH logical, I re=L ad in the FAQ that it could be a JAR file that needs a convert/fdl=3Dstream=L _lf.fdl, but I looked at all the ones under SYS$COMMON:[JAVA$131] and they'=4 re fine. My program is only importing the following: >=20 > import java.io.*;h > import java.text.*;a > import java.util.*;e >=20L > The classname inside the source file is mixed case, and I have tried comp=L iling it with quotes around it and proper case. I know I'm missing somethin= g - can anyone point it out? >=20	 > Thanks,a > John >=20 > --=20o1 > John W. Eisenschmidt <jweisen@eisenschmidt.org>i8 >  Homepage URL    | http://www.eisenschmidt.org/jweisenL >  PGP Public Key  | http://www.eisenschmidt.org/jweisen/misc/jeisenschmidt= ascMF >  PGP Fingerprint | 5F9B F916 5AD1 3295 CF99 BC1E 1F97 E6A3 37E3 BEF2 >=20L > FOO MANE PADME HUM: "Our first obligation is to keep the FOO counters tur= ning."       --=20e/ John W. Eisenschmidt <jweisen@eisenschmidt.org>s6  Homepage URL    | http://www.eisenschmidt.org/jweisenL  PGP Public Key  | http://www.eisenschmidt.org/jweisen/misc/jeisenschmidt.a= scD  PGP Fingerprint | 5F9B F916 5AD1 3295 CF99 BC1E 1F97 E6A3 37E3 BEF2  L FOO MANE PADME HUM: "Our first obligation is to keep the FOO counters turni= ng."   --NQTVMVnDVuULnIzU' Content-Type: application/pgp-signaturee Content-Disposition: inline,   -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----r Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (OpenBSD)-* Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org  @ iD8DBQE85WjvH5fmozfjvvIRAqCIAJ4iQNk8beihAZ83CWiTmV1psXwvQwCgscHu 2A+oyPyU/xphx3eUXQZWE+o= =agmll -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----e   --NQTVMVnDVuULnIzU--   ------------------------------   Date: 18 May 2002 04:08:00 GMT2 From: "Zane H. Healy" <healyzh@shell1.aracnet.com> Subject: SMTP MX gateways , Message-ID: <ac4k3011ij2@enews1.newsguy.com>  G Slightly odd question her, the following example is straight out of thee manual:e   TCPIP> show mx relay.abc.com A   +                           BIND MX database h   0  Server:          1.2.3.4          host.abc.com    -  Gate address     Preference       Gate name .   2  1.3.4.5          100              mail11.abc.com 2  1.3.5.6          100              mail13.abc.com 1  2.4.5.6          200              mail2.abc.com e1  2.4.5.7          200              mail1.abc.com t2  3.4.5.6          300              mail21.abc.com 2  3.4.6.7          300              mail12.abc.com   A The question is, if I don't put them in the Good-Clients, and if c TCPIP> show config smtphI shows my alternate and general gateways as being undefined, then the SMTPcH server running on the machine won't have anything to down with the hosts show above, will it?   			Zaneb   ------------------------------    Date: 17 May 2002 12:59:29 -0600+ From: kuhrt@encompasserve.org (Marty Kuhrt)s% Subject: Re: System manager available 3 Message-ID: <FmnXGxf21SVQ@eisner.encompasserve.org>E  [ In article <3CE1D332.9592C5D2@fsi.net>, "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> writes:a > Bill Sticker wrote:m >> r0 >> I'd switch to anything if I could find a job. > B > I've often said that I wished I'd gotten that job on the garbage
 > truck...  ; Which is shorthand for NT/W2K developer/system mangler?  :)o   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 18 May 2002 03:06:14 GMT 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>-% Subject: Re: System manager available ' Message-ID: <3CE5C866.9B535A40@fsi.net>h   John Smith wrote:N > : > At least being a garbage man is an honorable profession. > ; > It fulfills a civic need, whereas being a Windows man is e    ...closely akin to prostitution.   -- a David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systemse http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/h   ------------------------------    Date: 17 May 2002 12:34:27 -0700/ From: kevin_heikkila@yahoo.com (Kevin Heikkila)e1 Subject: TCPIP$PRINTCAP.DAT/UCX$PRINTCAP.DAT file < Message-ID: <b64ef43.0205171134.42d55c39@posting.google.com>  C Does anyone have DCL code that will, add queues to the PRINTCAP.DATeC file or delete queues from the PRINTCAP.DAT file? I know that I canyF manually edit the file and do this, but I would like to add the queues( using DCL (I don't wish to use LPRSETUP)   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 18 May 2002 03:02:39 GMT-1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>  Subject: Re: Tivoli ABC for VMSy' Message-ID: <3CE5C78D.1C1A2BF6@fsi.net>    Rob Young wrote: > ] > In article <3CE3177B.37171E2A@fsi.net>, "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> writes:m > > Rob Young wrote: > >>` > >> In article <3CE1D600.7C786560@fsi.net>, "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> writes: > >> > jp wrote: > >> >>uL > >> >> Can anyone here give any feedback, positive or negative, on Tivoli's= > >> >> ABC with OpenVMS? Does it use the VMS Backup utility?k > >> >K > >> > I cannot recommend any backup "solution" for OpenVMS that avoids VMS J > >> > BACKUP or tries to send multiple terabytes of data over an Ethernet > >> > link, gigabit or no.o > >> >0 > >> > The "solution" to ABC is VMS BACKUP, IMO. > >> > > >>K > >>         I can recommend any backup solution that does what is supposed'F > >>         to do.  Restore files when you need them.  ABC does that. > >>J > >>         Secondly, many shops have Enterprise backup solutions... i.e.I > >>         tape robots, multiple tape drives and dozens of Terabytes ofa > >>         tape storage. > > G > > No - not terabytes of tape storge, terabytes of *DISK* storage thata( > > *MUST* be backed up *EVERY* *NIGHT*. > >3L > > NFW you're gonna transfer all that over Ethernet every night, gigabit or > > no.- > >r > I >         Well... perhaps you tend to believe people with that much stuffh& >         back it all up every night.   E Nope - I don't "believe it" - I *LIVE* it! ...every workday, *AND* on 
 the weekends!t   > That mostly isn't the case.   , You've never worked in healthcare, have you?   > With TSM, you1H >         typically perform INCREMENTAL backups, only that which changed >         is saved.   G Rather useless when the entire database table space (every file! 2.7TB)  get updated *EVERY DAY*!  9 > Customers keep 20-30 days , that is where the Terabytesh >         come from.    F Not in healthcare, it doesn't. That's barely a week's worth of imagery and patient history!  9 > Yes, doesn't make sense.  Restoring a 30 GByte databaseeJ >         from 30 days ago and applying archivelogs , well maybe better to& >         leave that for another time.  , Try 300GB per db, times seven or eight db's!  0 >         But you talk as if it isn't occuring.   0 Never said that - dunno where you got that from.   > [snip] > I >         The situation you describe, Terabytes of storage of course will ) >         require several tape libraries,s  < ...or many tape drives running in parallel simultaneously...  " > a large setup indeed.  But for aG >         more typical mid-size setup (200-400 GBytes of daily changinga9 >         data) the backup over the net goes like this...y  
 (you hope)   > servers back upnQ >         to TSM server, the TSM server itself has a very large DiskPool > [snip]n1 > >> You can't justify separate solutions in manyeC > >>         cases.  That is why there is 3rd party clients for VMSi+ > >>         for Enterprise backup vendors.i > >n* > > For *VERY* small VMS systems, perhaps. > >  >  >         Eh?  Define small.  F 100GB or less doing incrementals six days a week and taking a full dayG of downtime on the weekend so the backups can saturate the network intoh% uselessness for a weekly full backup.a  G Ain't gonna happen, but won't stop folks from insisting on trying to do  it.o  D > > Good luck come disaster recovery time, that's all I gotta say... > C >         Diasaster Recovery is for those that can't.  I believe inr' >         Disaster Tolerant solutions. w  H Who doesn't? How many "enterprises" can afford disaster "tolerance" of aH scale that would have survived 9/11? Sorry, Disaster Recovery is here to stay!     > Business Continuity is all the >         rage:= > [snip]   Has been for years.d   > >h# > >> TSM, Legato and surely one for F > >>         Veritas but don't know the name.  And a quick google does7 > >>         show VMS is there for Veritas as a client:c > >mL > > ...but if you've ever inquired of Veritas support, you'll find their VMSF > > support is shaky, at best, and they outright admit that VMS systemI > > (bootable) disks are not supported, according my partner's experienceLD > > (though he does tend to "embellish" the truth, shall we say...). > >e > E >         Ah, a problem.  My solution is to backup the system disk tohI >         a local disk, in case of major corruption of course.  CertainlytP >         wouldn't be losing it as it is shadowed mirrorsets across datacenters.  F Come disaster recovery time - then what? Hope the backup disk survivedC the disaster and the hot site will accept a hot/warm-pluggable SBB?e  K > > Sorry - I cannot recommend any "solution" that requires another machine0= > > to be recovered before the VMS system can even be booted.t > 3 >         A nit that is easily overcome, see above.o   ...and see my response above.=   > >02 > > VMS systems are BACKUP *SERVERS*, not clients! > >a > # >         No, they can be clients. d  
 Read my lips:e  . VMS systems are BACKUP *SERVERS*, not clients!   Are there any questions?  ) > Just like all the large Unix boxes thattL >         fall into the same category.   Did you know they backup mainframes >         with TSM?   / How many "wrongs" does it take to make a right?a   > Server or client:r   Who gives a shit?    -- v David J. Dachterao dba DJE Systemst http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/x   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 18 May 2002 05:15:34 GMTu* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> Subject: Re: Tivoli ABC for VMSw@ Message-ID: <WrlF8.19749$th.1751488@bin2.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>  < "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote in message! news:3CE5C78D.1C1A2BF6@fsi.net...y > Rob Young wrote:   ...j  E > >         Diasaster Recovery is for those that can't.  I believe in ( > >         Disaster Tolerant solutions. >dJ > Who doesn't? How many "enterprises" can afford disaster "tolerance" of aJ > scale that would have survived 9/11? Sorry, Disaster Recovery is here to > stay!g  K Maybe not.  As usual, software is years behind making good use of availableAF hardware:  with the right software, you could have a disaster-tolerantG solution (for something like the 9/11 situation - requires only several I hundred feet of separation between sites) using today's (high-quality butoH commodity) hardware for less than the cost of existing disaster-recoveryJ configurations (even assuming that those existing configurations don't useB redundant storage but depend on recovery to solve *all* problems).  B Given the convenience and other value of essentially uninterruptedB operation, and the fairly rapid progress that is being made towardI commodity-hardware-based disaster tolerance, I wouldn't count on disasterrL recovery being the solution of choice for too many years longer.  EspeciallyA given the potential synergy between disaster-tolerant storage andSL locally-outsourced storage:  if you're going to run a couple of lines anywayL for disaster tolerance, why not instead run them to an SSP which can then doG that for you - at even lower cost and even greater separation distance,uI possibly with temporary emergency server facilities near the remote site?a  J The first SSP 'revolution' only existed because of the dot-com bubble:  itL was largely a brute-force approach rather than one that really exploited theI potential efficiencies of centralized storage.  I suspect the second waver> will do better, and the hardware to support it already exists.   - bill   ------------------------------    Date: 17 May 2002 12:35:47 -0700( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)G Subject: U.S. Dept. of Defense says only VMS fits their security model!e= Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0205171135.298b026b@posting.google.com>C  @ well, indirectly ... there is only one OS that fits the bill ... OpenVMS ...   L http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=75&ncid=738&e=8&u=/nf/200205 16/tc_nf/17784  = Using students from U.S. military academies as attackers, thet? Department of Defense (news - web sites) has been running cybertE security exercises against the National Security Agency, the U.S. AirnC Force's 92nd Information Warfare Aggressor Squadron, and the Army's " Land Information Warfare Activity.  F What they have learned is that the "install-and-patch" system does notB work, especially against a concentrated attack. Operating systems,? they have concluded, need to be designed more securely from thee outset./   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 17 May 2002 12:44:54 -0700 2 From: "Lee Gillie" <ANTISPAMIFICATION_lee@odp.com>2 Subject: UCX server spuriously refuses connections/ Message-ID: <ueanb5f1rkvpd5@corp.supernews.com>-  0 This is under VAX/VMS V6.2, and UCX V4.2 - ECO 4  D We have found for some time that client TCP connections, from NT forI example, are being rejected.  This may happen only once or twice a month.zH But we have several custom servers like this.  It gets in this mood, andC stays this way.  Stopping, and restarting the service program (port H listener) usually doesn't help.  In fact, it has only helped once that IL have been told of.  Typically we are required to reboot VMS to make the portL accessible again.  We are using the Berkley style API from C++.  The serviceF application runs without error, but simply does not see the connection0 attempts.  Any clues where the problem could be?  E TIA - Best regards - Lee Gillie, Online Data Processing - Spokane, WAl   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 17 May 2002 20:37:18 +0000s2 From: John Eisenschmidt <jweisen@eisenschmidt.org>6 Subject: Re: UCX server spuriously refuses connections4 Message-ID: <20020517203718.G11540@eisenschmidt.org>   --t4apE7yKrX2dGgJC* Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline + Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printables   Lee, =20oL I had a similar problem with UCX 4.2 under 7.1, but ECO 4 fixed the problem=K  In addition to what you've mentioned, my experience was that after a user= L  changed their password they could access the system by telnet but not by f=L tp. We are also using a custom socket listener with UCX, but our problem te=B nds to be a slow memory leak that our vendor has failed to fix.=20   Best,0 John  L Unless the Voices are Mistaken, Lee Gillie (ANTISPAMIFICATION_lee@odp.com) = Wrote:2 > This is under VAX/VMS V6.2, and UCX V4.2 - ECO 4 >=20F > We have found for some time that client TCP connections, from NT forK > example, are being rejected.  This may happen only once or twice a month.tJ > But we have several custom servers like this.  It gets in this mood, andE > stays this way.  Stopping, and restarting the service program (porttJ > listener) usually doesn't help.  In fact, it has only helped once that IL > have been told of.  Typically we are required to reboot VMS to make the p= ort L > accessible again.  We are using the Berkley style API from C++.  The serv= ice H > application runs without error, but simply does not see the connection2 > attempts.  Any clues where the problem could be? >=20G > TIA - Best regards - Lee Gillie, Online Data Processing - Spokane, WAs >=20   --=20e/ John W. Eisenschmidt <jweisen@eisenschmidt.org> 6  Homepage URL    | http://www.eisenschmidt.org/jweisenL  PGP Public Key  | http://www.eisenschmidt.org/jweisen/misc/jeisenschmidt.a= scD  PGP Fingerprint | 5F9B F916 5AD1 3295 CF99 BC1E 1F97 E6A3 37E3 BEF2  L FOO MANE PADME HUM: "Our first obligation is to keep the FOO counters turni= ng."   --t4apE7yKrX2dGgJC' Content-Type: application/pgp-signature  Content-Disposition: inline    -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----m Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (OpenBSD)d* Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org  @ iD8DBQE85Wn+H5fmozfjvvIRAj0UAJ465cz0IjhOLhnXyCypp3XZ6IyAfACfZOol 4PEUx/YatARz5Rda9Fj5i/8= =ZFmMg -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----    --t4apE7yKrX2dGgJC--   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 17 May 2002 14:58:40 -0400 ; From: "Brian Tillman" <tillman_brian@notnoone.notnohow.com>== Subject: Re: vax/alpha print to hp laser printers help needed1$ Message-ID: <3ce552ce$1@news.si.com>  % >We deleted and reinitialized queues;m! >but may have started them beforet >we did $set device /spool  K Why do people always seem to think that SET DEVICE/SPOOL has any bearing oncL printing to queues?  It DOESN'T!  What it has bearing on is writing directlyJ to devices.  It's a way to place the data being written to a device into aJ queue instead.  IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE PRINT COMMAND.  Print queues9 work pon a device whether or not the device is set SPOOL.t --A Brian Tillman                   Internet: tillman_brian at si.comeA Smiths Aerospace                          tillman at swdev.si.com = 3290 Patterson Ave. SE, MS      Addresses modified to preventu< Grand Rapids, MI 49512-1991     SPAM.  Replace "at" with "@"8        This opinion doesn't represent that of my company   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 17 May 2002 18:39:36 +0100mU From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <andrew_nospam.harrison_remove_this@sun#.com>EH Subject: Re: VMS 7.3 upgrade problems - a bad workman blaming his tools?0 Message-ID: <ac3fn9$cn1$2@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   Fred Kleinsorge wrote:  # > Bill Sticker wrote in message ...  >  >>K >>When you upgrade a Sun, do you test it beforehand? Do you let someone whoe >>doesnt= >>know the operating system, or read the release notes do it?T >> > K > Uh, you can't "upgrade" to a Sun... there isn't an "up" in that movement.- >     7 Words that will come back to haunt you when people haveM  to downgrade from Alpha to IA64.   Glass house, stonesl   Regardso Andrew Harrison    ------------------------------    Date: 17 May 2002 14:28:59 -0600+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young)tH Subject: Re: VMS 7.3 upgrade problems - a bad workman blaming his tools?3 Message-ID: <I5qsFRmqLcDi@eisner.encompasserve.org>    In article <ac3fn9$cn1$2@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <andrew_nospam.harrison_remove_this@sun#.com> writes: >  >  > Fred Kleinsorge wrote: > $ >> Bill Sticker wrote in message ... >>   >>> L >>>When you upgrade a Sun, do you test it beforehand? Do you let someone who	 >>>doesnt > >>>know the operating system, or read the release notes do it? >>>  >> iL >> Uh, you can't "upgrade" to a Sun... there isn't an "up" in that movement. >>   >  > 9 > Words that will come back to haunt you when people haves" > to downgrade from Alpha to IA64. >    	Downgrade?   C 	Hee-hee-hee... they have 200 Alpha Engineers added to the hundreds?A 	of Intel engineers, many of them top shelf, including Dileep who 0 	jumped ship 7 years ago from Alpha development:  8 http://www.intel.com/pressroom/kits/bios/dbhandarkar.htm  M Dr. Bhandarkar holds 15 U.S. Patents and has published more than 30 technical.O papers in various journals and conference proceedings. He is also the author ofm6 a book titled Alpha Architecture and Implementations.    	..  	eA 	They could make a silk purse out of a pig's ear.  And it appearsc1 	they have to!  big or small challenge... p-shah.t   > Glass house, stones-   	UltraSparc V (zing!)    				Rob,   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 17 May 2002 19:49:59 GMTn* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>H Subject: Re: VMS 7.3 upgrade problems - a bad workman blaming his tools?A Message-ID: <H9dF8.49977$Ze4.5150644@bin5.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>l  8 "Rob Young" <young_r@encompasserve.org> wrote in message- news:I5qsFRmqLcDi@eisner.encompasserve.org...DH > In article <ac3fn9$cn1$2@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>, Andrew Harrison SUNUKA Consultancy <andrew_nospam.harrison_remove_this@sun#.com> writes:- > >- > >- > > Fred Kleinsorge wrote:   ...:  D > >> Uh, you can't "upgrade" to a Sun... there isn't an "up" in that	 movement.. > >> > >N > >D; > > Words that will come back to haunt you when people haveo$ > > to downgrade from Alpha to IA64. > >w >, > Downgrade? >eD > Hee-hee-hee... they have 200 Alpha Engineers added to the hundredsB > of Intel engineers, many of them top shelf, including Dileep who1 > jumped ship 7 years ago from Alpha development:L  I Gee - if Dileep has been working on Itanic all that time, I wouldn't call  that a great resume-stuffer.  D But I do see that your tune seems to be changing from "Just wait forL McKinley!" to "Just wait until the Alpha team can [crosses fingers and praysJ a lot] wrestle this mess into something usable after the next few years of effort!"   - bill   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 17 May 2002 20:17:18 GMTj5 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com>uH Subject: Re: VMS 7.3 upgrade problems - a bad workman blaming his tools?9 Message-ID: <izdF8.37$q94.723028@cacnews.cac.cpqcorp.net>u  ! Bill Sticker wrote in message ...o >nA >"Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> wrote in message 4 >news:t0bF8.27$C54.574552@cacnews.cac.cpqcorp.net...$ >> Bill Sticker wrote in message ... >> > >> >I >> >When you upgrade a Sun, do you test it beforehand? Do you let someonec whoc
 >> >doesnt? >> >know the operating system, or read the release notes do it?R >>L >> Uh, you can't "upgrade" to a Sun... there isn't an "up" in that movement. >> >  >You cant read.a >p  L Ooops, your right.  The simplest way to upgrade a Sun (as opposed to upgrade3 "to") is to turn it off and send it to the crusher.    ------------------------------    Date: 17 May 2002 15:15:50 -0600+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young)3H Subject: Re: VMS 7.3 upgrade problems - a bad workman blaming his tools?3 Message-ID: <HELDAd7UZ2FY@eisner.encompasserve.org>o  n In article <H9dF8.49977$Ze4.5150644@bin5.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>, "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> writes: > : > "Rob Young" <young_r@encompasserve.org> wrote in message/ > news:I5qsFRmqLcDi@eisner.encompasserve.org...wI >> In article <ac3fn9$cn1$2@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>, Andrew Harrison SUNUKfC > Consultancy <andrew_nospam.harrison_remove_this@sun#.com> writes:  >> > >> > >> > Fred Kleinsorge wrote:s >  > ...c > E >> >> Uh, you can't "upgrade" to a Sun... there isn't an "up" in thatd > movement.  >> >>h >> > >> >< >> > Words that will come back to haunt you when people have% >> > to downgrade from Alpha to IA64.n >> > >>
 >> Downgrade?e >>E >> Hee-hee-hee... they have 200 Alpha Engineers added to the hundredsaC >> of Intel engineers, many of them top shelf, including Dileep whov2 >> jumped ship 7 years ago from Alpha development: > K > Gee - if Dileep has been working on Itanic all that time, I wouldn't call  > that a great resume-stuffer. > F > But I do see that your tune seems to be changing from "Just wait forN > McKinley!" to "Just wait until the Alpha team can [crosses fingers and praysL > a lot] wrestle this mess into something usable after the next few years of
 > effort!" >   B 	McKinley won't be a lead dog.  But sure... let them pound on that= 	pig's ear for a while.  They pounded on IA32 and look at its 
 	limitations.    				Roba   ------------------------------  + Date: Fri, 17 May 2002 21:41:09 +0000 (UTC)>5 From: "Bill Sticker" <NOSPAMPLEASE@SPAMSTOPPER.CO.UK>mH Subject: Re: VMS 7.3 upgrade problems - a bad workman blaming his tools?/ Message-ID: <ac3tdl$s0v$1@paris.btinternet.com>   8 "Rob Young" <young_r@encompasserve.org> wrote in message- news:I5qsFRmqLcDi@eisner.encompasserve.org...nH > In article <ac3fn9$cn1$2@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>, Andrew Harrison SUNUKA Consultancy <andrew_nospam.harrison_remove_this@sun#.com> writes:o > >e > >f > > Fred Kleinsorge wrote: > >n& > >> Bill Sticker wrote in message ... > >> > >>> J > >>>When you upgrade a Sun, do you test it beforehand? Do you let someone who  > >>>doesnti@ > >>>know the operating system, or read the release notes do it? > >>>t > >>D > >> Uh, you can't "upgrade" to a Sun... there isn't an "up" in that	 movement.l > >> > >a > >l; > > Words that will come back to haunt you when people haveh$ > > to downgrade from Alpha to IA64. > >a >t > Downgrade? >eD > Hee-hee-hee... they have 200 Alpha Engineers added to the hundredsB > of Intel engineers, many of them top shelf, including Dileep who1 > jumped ship 7 years ago from Alpha development:r >r: > http://www.intel.com/pressroom/kits/bios/dbhandarkar.htm > E > Dr. Bhandarkar holds 15 U.S. Patents and has published more than 30a	 technicalrG > papers in various journals and conference proceedings. He is also thed	 author ofn7 > a book titled Alpha Architecture and Implementations.  >  > .. >aB > They could make a silk purse out of a pig's ear.  And it appears2 > they have to!  big or small challenge... p-shah. >n  = Who the f**k are you and what the f**k are you talking about?n   > > Glass house, stonesa >e > UltraSparc V (zing!) >t > Rob  >e   ------------------------------    Date: 17 May 2002 16:31:53 -0700( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)H Subject: Re: VMS 7.3 upgrade problems - a bad workman blaming his tools?= Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0205171531.374a7f91@posting.google.com>V   Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <andrew_nospam.harrison_remove_this@sun#.com> wrote in message news:<ac3fn9$cn1$2@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>...m > Fred Kleinsorge wrote: > % > > Bill Sticker wrote in message ...n > >  > >>M > >>When you upgrade a Sun, do you test it beforehand? Do you let someone whoh
 > >>doesnt? > >>know the operating system, or read the release notes do it?a > >> > > M > > Uh, you can't "upgrade" to a Sun... there isn't an "up" in that movement.o > >  >  > 9 > Words that will come back to haunt you when people have " > to downgrade from Alpha to IA64. >  > Glass house, stonest > 	 > Regardse > Andrew Harrisoni  B EV7 and EV79 and shrinks on EV68 for single cpu boxes will suffice@ until the Alpha engineers save itanium ... we are on Alphaserver> 1200's and have more than enough horsepower, and the ds10-ds20B line is the next jump ... EV7 for big boxes is a 5-7 year platform; easy ... look at Vax, it still is sufficient for many apps!t   ------------------------------   Date: 17 May 02 13:42:13 EDT From: grant@rigel.cc.wmich.edu> Subject: Re: VMS GKS Manuals for giveaway in Richmond, VA area/ Message-ID: <yxNt8yWyB5nR@mcduck.acs.wmich.edu>o  K In article <3CE51B31.64C3A505@vcu.edu>, Jim Agnew <jpagnew@vcu.edu> writes:t2 > I have the CD's now, and need the shelf space... > G > I didn't give up my manuals 'til I had 2 - 3 systems all capabable of  > reading the cd's...  ;-) > I > Is there a PC version of the bookreader or mgbook ??  Or, HTML versionso > of the v5.5-2 manuals? >  > Jim   I There is software included with the OSU HTTP server to display Bookreader'E on the web.  I think newer versions also handle BNU format (with boths HTML and BookReader files).g   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 17 May 2002 14:45:28 -0400d! From: Jim Agnew <jpagnew@vcu.edu>t> Subject: Re: VMS GKS Manuals for giveaway in Richmond, VA area' Message-ID: <3CE54FC8.FF654EFA@vcu.edu>,   hhmm... Thanks!!!!   grant@rigel.cc.wmich.edu wrote:  > M > In article <3CE51B31.64C3A505@vcu.edu>, Jim Agnew <jpagnew@vcu.edu> writes:y4 > > I have the CD's now, and need the shelf space... > >sI > > I didn't give up my manuals 'til I had 2 - 3 systems all capabable ofS > > reading the cd's...  ;-) > >oK > > Is there a PC version of the bookreader or mgbook ??  Or, HTML versionsn > > of the v5.5-2 manuals? > >n > > Jim  > K > There is software included with the OSU HTTP server to display BookreaderyG > on the web.  I think newer versions also handle BNU format (with both  > HTML and BookReader files).s   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 17 May 2002 15:13:06 -0400r; From: "Brian Tillman" <tillman_brian@notnoone.notnohow.com>iY Subject: Re: [Q]  How do you set the SQO bit in the FAB (FAB, RAB, which field has this b $ Message-ID: <3ce5562f$1@news.si.com>  E >Thanks. But I forgot to mention that we are using Pascal and that wem< >don't have Fortran. Also, we are running VMS v6.1 and v6.2.
 ...snip...B >Where else might this $fabdef be? Any furter guidance is welcome.  G SYS$LIBRARY contains STARLET.PAS, which will define FAB$V_SQO.  Use theOL %INCLUDE directive to include it in your source.  There's also a STARLET.PEN> file for use at link time, if I understand how PEN files work. --A Brian Tillman                   Internet: tillman_brian at si.comoA Smiths Aerospace                          tillman at swdev.si.comc= 3290 Patterson Ave. SE, MS      Addresses modified to prevent'< Grand Rapids, MI 49512-1991     SPAM.  Replace "at" with "@"8        This opinion doesn't represent that of my company   ------------------------------    Date: 18 May 2002 04:24:01 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>Y Subject: Re: [Q]  How do you set the SQO bit in the FAB (FAB, RAB, which field has this b-0 Message-ID: <87wuu2r09q.fsf@k9.prep.synonet.com>  0 SPAMSINK2001@YAHOO.COM (Alan E. Feldman) writes:  C > > Using that particular example code you should be able to inserts > > 4 > > FAB.FAB$L_FOP = IBSET (FAB.FAB$L_FOP, FAB$V_SQO) > > F > > You can examine the values of the symbols by looking in FORSYSDEF. > > F > > $ pipe libr/extr=$fabdef/out=sys$output: sys$share:forsysdef.tlb - > >   | sear sys$pipe sqoz  uF > Thanks. But I forgot to mention that we are using Pascal and that we= > don't have Fortran. Also, we are running VMS v6.1 and v6.2.p   ::mutter::mutter::kill!!:: Now! he mentions it...  C > Where else might this $fabdef be? Any furter guidance is welcome. 	 > Thanks.M  D It will be in STARLETxx.TLB or LIB.TLB, but FABDEF.PEN/.PAS might be@ closer to what you are after. The STARLETxx.TLB contains the SDI@ data for the definitions. You can use SDL to create the required  files in any language from them.   -- e< Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.0@                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2002.273 ************************